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786c1332d0af-20 | from either of them actually to be very honest um uh I had shared this with the general secretary in charge of uttar Pradesh which was my immediate boss which was randeep surjawala I had shared it with both of them and immediately you know a committee was formed and they realized what Priyanka was saying was right and suspensions happen the main person who was to be suspended was not suspended for whatever reasons because he was someone I knew since my childhood days but even he ended up being part of the problem but it was decided mutually that let's not do that we have taken action against the team my only request at that time was that when when the time comes please ensure that they're not taken back six years ago suspension Tonka foreign but it came at a time the the taking them back in at a time when uh everybody was so caught up and then everybody tried to tell me that listen listen we will address this election post election which I was not ready for you | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-21 | election post election which I was not ready for you know there comes at point in time where you decide that uh what do you stand up for and for me that was it but isn't that shocking you know you have a woman who's at the helmetology has been saying but waiting you know waiting and telling a woman that you know this is a serious issue isn't it no okay why would you have to reach out to them why couldn't they have reached out to you no the mother because we talk about so much of women empowerment no because maybe maybe because they were not aware of uh this because I had resolved you're not a you're not a party worker you were you were a serious person you know somebody who was part of the media team you were somebody who was there in the public right right and you put you put that out in the public but I'm a very stickler for protocol you know that if if that can be addressed by XYZ why should I trouble ABC so that has | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-22 | by XYZ why should I trouble ABC so that has been my case uh even now I mean I would say that if if something can be resolved at this level why do I take it to that uh but and I try not to make anything ugly because uh it just doesn't work out when you look back in time and uh but I thought that because it was just so close to the their men that they would have gone even could have said yeah Priyanka is right and for Jyoti also to say you know let's hang on I have an election going and that they have asked for something I mean I say everything's in the past and we've kind of thought it's uh it's not that's what happens you know business anyway let me get back to the media uh Team you were there in their media team right what do you have to say do you see any change in the media team now that jayaram Ramesh has come you're seeing Rahul Gandhi then uh and Rahul Gandhi kilometers | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-23 | Gandhi then uh and Rahul Gandhi kilometers yeah do you see any difference in in the way the media is being you know his projection in the media is it more successful do you think now I think it would be unfair for me to say anything at this point because just taken over but the rebranding is uh quite transformational I feel in the past just two months reactionary time is like this everything I would say maybe there is also an understanding of how narrative works and I can tell you one thing for sure that that was quite a struggle for me to explain the power of imagery the power of visuals like you know you always learn even from your opponents and what Mr Modi has done he's transformed what communication is visual communication is and that is something you you must give him full marks for because he's quite Hands-On himself a communication is concerned and if you've got your communication and your narrative in sync then it becomes an Unstoppable Force you know how would you have | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-24 | an Unstoppable Force you know how would you have a visual communication of a president who was not in the country when you were in the media team uh yeah I mean yeah that was uh something which um what would you show no I'm certainly uh you know whenever he used to take some time out but whenever he was in the country there were enough and more for example for example I'd want to give you the prakash or the the Fiasco of Germany his German Germany visit where uh some photos were put up on Twitter looking up down left right round any communication expert would tell you that even if you've taken photos like this I'm sure Mr modiji has his own moments but Mr motiji is very careful about what he's putting out there but yeah eventually if your your communication person has gone and put that out uh who's someone who's relying on and you depend on I would I would blame the communication person because you are trying to uh let down the person who had faith in you to show | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-25 | down the person who had faith in you to show the Right image or to set the right narrative and that was a very uh interesting Outreach that he had he was getting a lot of traction abroad and he could he was able to put his point of view across and without being censored without being stopped and he could speak his mind and that was the momentum that was coming out of it and those four images that were tweeted out from the congress party handled were just so unfortunate so those were those are my pain points right because as someone who has and let me also on your show put it on record which you are aware of you are also aware of but um I used to be writing columns way before I joined the Congress yeah I was a communication person many people tend to think that everything I did was after joining them I was already doing that for someone who has been in the communication who's Hands-On with social media would understand all of this so you um then you from a center left or | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-26 | so you um then you from a center left or a left party that Congress has become the options were there for you right uh why join this extreme right party then shift Cena actually not many are where because see when you're sitting in Delhi your narrative is only via the Parliament and what you're hearing but on ground locally there's a lot of changes that are happening and because I used to keep my family had refused to move with me to Delhi because my husband used to keep telling me that your role is so uncertain you don't know where you're heading in life why should we move back baggage to Delhi and because of what you are choosing to do so I used to live a very tough life seven five days of the week I was in Delhi uh only the weekends I was getting to spend with my children and in those weekends we were trying to get all the family together do our family numbers try and do our holidays holidays also became a luxury it | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-27 | our holidays holidays also became a luxury it became very difficult so um but I used to keep going to Mumbai and uh Maharashtra and I used to keep figuring out uh what is happening on ground and I was seeing a transition happen because Aditya just stepped in and he had his own ideas whether it was with plastic ban whether it was transforming the entire educational system of The BMC The BMC run schools I was seeing a real push towards uh issue based uh political party it was moving away from what it was because they felt it was not the need of the Aden the need of the hour was to look at skill building Etc but the politics is of Street Politics the politics see there is there is a momentum that you build through your on-ground uh movements and there is what you once you are in that position of power what are you doing with it are you transforming lives are you transforming systems are you transforming uh the ability of people to Aspire for more | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-28 | uh the ability of people to Aspire for more so that was what I was seeing with that so he he is very clear with the environment that climate change is the challenge he was speaking about it a lot earlier then it became a fashionable thing to speak about I was seeing that happen and I also felt that uh with me moving and I I did not want to I was definitely very let down by Delhi at that point in time I said National Party whatever it could be a national party the congress party but I want to move back to Maharashtra family was the biggest pull for me uh politics was not in my Horizon I thought yeah and then Congress will come back to yeah something like that you know that but then when I resigned and everything happened within 48 hours and I was so angry so angry um that is when other tiji told me you know things seemed to be going so well for you what are you doing what are you even doing it used to be such | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-29 | what are you even doing it used to be such a happy feeling to see you standing next to Sri Rahul Gandhi and talking and you know addressing the media and I told him and he asked me what's your plan I said nothing I mean I'm coming back to Mumbai baggage so he said if that is where you're looking at working why would you want to give up your politics I said because I don't see myself going with any other party now he said why don't you look at us and and that is when it struck me that it made just the perfect sense for I get to work in Maharashtra I get to work in the city I love the way my family belongs and I'd be able to work for a party which has been you know very Cosmopolitan in terms of working in the city of Mumbai where Cosmopolitan I get that part where you're talking about environment and all that Aditya is doing and all that's fine but it is it is an essentially | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-30 | that's fine but it is it is an essentially hindutva party much more than even the BJP yes and you all through were attacking you know attacking in the sense ideologically attacking that hindutva aspect of the BJP you were never attacking anything other than the hindutra aspect of the of Mr Modi of Mr amitsha of of uh fadnaves of uh BJP leanings or whatever but the point is that it's the hindutva aspect and here is a party born and bred I mean Mr baltaker is politics is all about that it's about hindutva more radical than even the BJP yeah so how do you cons reconcile with that no again I will again repeat to you uh in terms of their their ideology they were very clear ramandhar you can go back to all my Twitter profile and say if I have ever opposed the Raman there I found it very I had a problem with using the ram mandir issue to create a hate narrative okay that was always my problem uh again uh if | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-31 | okay that was always my problem uh again uh if you would go back to my um you know I used to address a lot of college people and 370 317 Barbara Congress and this was my 0.2 the 370 is something which was a temporary measure put in place to assimilate people to give them that sense of confidence but we have to start discussing this because the Youth of the country are in other parts of the country is talking about it this was my point of view within the Congress that you know 370 is a point where you all will actually have to work with various stakeholders and have a point of view on recalibrate yeah I would say yes so again on that is something that I totally was in line with uh what she said I thought about it my only thing was about the language and how it was building a narrative so uh when I when I started to work with like I said there was a transition happening their movement they realized that what do they prioritize what is it that | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-32 | that what do they prioritize what is it that the aspiration of people of Maharashtra matches right now and they they've consciously were moving out of that imagery that the the the painted picture of what it was about shivsena where it is totally the like you said it was extreme right so when this transition was happening uh do you think I don't know uh piled is that the view that most uh political reporters have that when uh the shiv Cena started changing uh its priorities that is when it started losing its you know it's MLA is it's the people who felt that Aditya is not not in line with what baltakare had taught them all that's what shindi says right that's what everybody from that I won't go but okay now here's my question to you many from atal bihari vajpayee's era would totally not agree with the era that they are seeing under SRI Narendra Modi bharti isn't the party transitions are part of any political party any political movement what | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-33 | are part of any political party any political movement what it began on and what it is talking about are very different functions so um uh and I will always continue to say whatever the current faction is speaking about 2014 we contested separately we can test it separately we got 63 seats but they say 2019 was the Mandate which was given to the BJP that's for the bjpc yes I'll tell you how many arguments they've offered let me tell you it started with mandate um I'll get to that also I'll get to all the reasoning so they are they are prob there are excuses will never end because they have something to say see there has to be some consistency when people constantly say that udhasa was not available Ram mandir first political party which said Supreme Court needs to take a decision on this once he becomes a chief minister first political chief minister after taking the oath going to ayodhya ramandir and also publicly uh donating to that particular Temple ramandar no | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-34 | uh donating to that particular Temple ramandar no chief minister did that no chief minister did that uh Second about uh hindutva you talk about redeveloping all the temples coming up with the Temple Trail as part of our Manifesto as part of a Manifesto again is it not part of hindutva and which hindutva teaches you that you only have to talk about hateful hindutva which hindutva principles teach you that you can start to backstab you can start to leave parties on uh on on something which is hate driven so I mean that this is quite silly an argument right yeah you can you can uh give different um definitions of hindutva or interpretations of hindutva I get that uh but the point is that you everybody saw them as natural allies the BJP and the shift Cena you went in for an election and that the votes were for a combination of that and then for sure say not to go with the congress party whatever that's all behind closed doors we don't | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-35 | party whatever that's all behind closed doors we don't know what happened so you might have an interpretation Mr Shah might have another interpretation of what that meeting was all about right let's put that aside right just to go with that do you think anybody voted for the shivsena saying that it will be with the congress party okay so I have a question to you 2014 we contested separately that was the highest Alice you've seen I got okay just allow me to complete just allow me to complete so this argument doesn't hold good and now my second question is is this a first in India didn't we see that happen one minute go back to that argument let's go back to that argument you won right 14 but when you won the Maharashtra election it was together no again again I'll just want to complete the pre-poll Alliance came on a certain understanding at that point in time SRI Amit Shah came flew down to Mumbai did this Alliance if you are talking about winning the | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-36 | this Alliance if you are talking about winning the on a base of a combination then backstabbing and saying boss we can't do this we never committed it so that that is also something that every political party will have to think of you it's a long thing that it's some kind of a vishwas ghat or yeah to go with the Congress I'm not saying anything about it okay to form you could sit in the opposition and say like this was the understanding of the BJP if they don't come on board then we're not forming governments or counter question to you okay because the BJP couldn't have probably gone with the congression BJP can go to PDP and former government kashmiris are different so haryana is different is haryana different all my little point of view here is and I I will continue to say for political parties now you are saying they came on an alliance right they came on in Alliance on the base of certain commitments made commitments not lived with and now look at | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-37 | made commitments not lived with and now look at other examples of the alliance is foreign you know the top in in the party very very well was it an easy decision was it a difficult decision was it was it a decision all I can say is that decision came with everyone's consultation within ships absolutely absolutely and I can say it on your channel on your show that he was very much part of the conversation he was part of every minute of that conversation so what caused the change of heart a few years later foreign [Laughter] not realize or did Aditya not realize that there are Rumblings and this is not going to last and that people within his party because so many quit it's not agadas the intelligence was so low that nobody knew yeah I forgot to address that is foreign not having the administrative whatever and we there's a huge problem coming my way so let me resolve that and let's have all hands on board and work towards well that that was your priority you are in touch with | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-38 | that that was your priority you are in touch with every single District every single Booth whether your organization or uh the government uh you know arms everyone and we managed to do a decent job uh may as a political party uh health ministries without him being accessible um that's that's one part he's a shy person so you know he's shy he's reluctant to meet with people you know I mean you you can you probably have access uh to the takaris people did not have not do not have access to how many have access to Amit huh oh yes are we talking about a lot of people you know in fact the ground level workers who have most access to him if he goes to anywhere and pile it's not just the BJP you don't talk about briefed about it you also okay look at Achilles look at Tejas via them look at uh look at any chief minister look at the badals even they even though they have a lot of security again anybody you're comparing it to a | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-39 | of security again anybody you're comparing it to a PJ even during covet the point is that even during covert when they were first as a person as a family that's not true because because we they okay there are three important events that happen in uh um party's Foundation day Guru purnima day and the sharara rally day besides that there's constant engagement with every Booth level worker Ward Shaka everything constant I mean once in every 15 days there's a conversation so this I have seen because the sense of commitment to engaging with your political party members is much higher than I saw in even in the congress party let me also tell you that the sense of communication okay what what do a leadership think and what do they want us to do is there even when we stitched up this Alliance and this Alliance was coming out we did speak to all he did speak to all of them so whether we're doing this through online conversations or whatever there was yes there was a period of three months | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-40 | there was yes there was a period of three months that had three months where he was he had his surgeries back to back two surgeries and after which he he there was a health bubble that was created okay you uh had a very bitter parting with the Congress and you moved to the shiv Cena and then comes this Alliance I mean what did you feel at that time you why would you want to be again in a party which is now going to be no idea which uh I was in a party which was coming in Alliance with the Congress on its own terms and conditions that's point one uh point two was uh point two was that uh even if you saw my um exit letter and my exit letter was not bitter in any way The Parting was bitter but my exit letter or my engagement to them was not my problem was with a couple of people my problem and I must also share this with you that when I joined the shivsena I I was telling sahab I remember that sir | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-41 | I was telling sahab I remember that sir you know I'm coming after 10 years I have worked with the Congress and of course I've criticized you I've criticized uh aditiji also at times especially about The BMC that I used to be very critical so uh what do I do I can't delete those tweets because I stand by them he said absolutely not you don't need to so there was no bitterness per se with the Congress but yes when the game came into an alliance for me it was about a political party which is seeing a situation like this and my duty would be to stand by my party leadership's decision political decision they took that decision and I have to work in sync with them but they came they all came together on a certain set of understanding which which was working very beautifully so you know uh you were talking about accessibility and all that even within the shiv Cena there there was a little bit of angst when you got nominated uh to uh rajya Sabha | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-42 | when you got nominated uh to uh rajya Sabha that you know you were you're a lateral entry in a way you know those who have access to the leadership especially with regional parties which are family-run parties and that happened with you so uh did you feel that resentment within your party no I did not in fact someone had gone on record had said something off the Record he also after the uh held the press conference and said that I don't think this was the right thing for me to say and I withdraw those commands but um again uh Raja Sabha I would say came about because of the mahavika sagari coming together the three different parties coming together and uh after I joined the Cena uh we in the month of October we so we were going through Lok Sabha elections I could not contribute much but during the assembly elections no one from the shivsena can say that I did not travel the length and breadth of the state like I said my commitment to my job and | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-43 | state like I said my commitment to my job and to the decision I've taken is always above 100 so I I traveled across the length and path of uh this state uh whatever the outcome whatever role was given to me I would just take it Hands-On I would say all right I will lead this I will do this I used to come up with ideas and I was grateful that they gave me the platform they allowed me to do what I wanted to and uh heard me out the most important part of being in part of a political system is you feel heard you feel respected for your views many times it was dismissed you know because from my previous experience but here I was being heard I was giving the respect and I was also told that why don't you start working on it and that was a very refreshing change and that made me a lot more confident about creating policy narratives and policy changes so uh I did do all that work uh after the during the elections post elections even with the | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-44 | the during the elections post elections even with the BMC I started coordinating closely with BMC policies what we can streamline better what we can talk about because I only got to understand the workings of The BMC after I started going there you know meeting people Etc so those were things I've tried to do and um it would be unfair for anyone to say that everything has been given to me on a platter really so in rajya Sabha uh you know you you got suspended in rajya Sabha and one has seen you being very very uh militant about certain things you know protesting and certainly raising the profile of your party uh the numbers that you have in uh in in Parliament you certainly make more noise than than yeah and every time that Priyanka asks a question about you know women or something that has happened to women Ashwini vaishnu has his hands off he's like you know now I have no no I have to answer that yeah so uh you you're very | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-45 | have to answer that yeah so uh you you're very active in Parliament uh and you know you you got suspended because it's actually rajya Sabha one had seen those debates which were very erudite the the people who would come to rajya Sabha as students we would listen to it to learn from the way they conduct themselves and from the content of their speeches slowly rajya Sabha has degraded I'm sorry to say use the term degraded but it's become like Lok Sabha the noise and the pushing and the shoving did you at any point of time for that incident that happened in Parliament do you regret what happened that day actually I have no regret and I did not do anything and I repeat anything to deserve that suspension very clear about that and uh and that I speak with that conviction because uh if you look at my parliamentary track record I had never stepped into The Well of the house at that point in time till then never stepped into The Well of | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-46 | time till then never stepped into The Well of the house so you have to understand that a moment was created a moment which was so weird where the business advisory committee had decided that bill is not coming uh revised list of business showed that business coming it was an important issue for me where I thought that you cannot take this decision unilaterally push and shove a bill across on the last day of the parliament and think it's absolutely okay in that one you know and you've allotted just about half an hour one hour for discussion without taking every political party into uh you know consideration or having a discussion when it was already in the business advisory committee decided that it's not coming how can you all make these unilateral changes and that is just not um acceptable to me when you I I will continue to say even if you're in the opposition with one Member of Parliament that Member of Parliament deserves that respect and that voice you can't shove or mute everybody and that is what | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-47 | can't shove or mute everybody and that is what just got me to go inside The Well of the house and protest about it and I was and I I must say I was very careful about uh you know they were going on giving me that that bill in my hand to tear off he said no black people you know I'll tear off the blank paper oh God that you learned from Rahul Gandhi didn't you know that that came from somebody who was charged up and I honestly I was just standing in that uh particular uh you know space and I was just going on saying that this is not right I wouldn't have even gone into the will of rather and it's just a day prior I must share this the prior I had seen Pratap Singh bajwaji get on the table and throw the file at uh I was shocked I was shocked but he was not suspended and it's it was it's your first term in Parliament so for you it must have been you know | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-48 | Parliament so for you it must have been you know like my sisters joked with me when I came out I was like all anger and fury and of course that became a meme and everybody was like of course and I controlled it actually if I look at it I'm like oh my God I'm so angry but I had gone inside the chamber also and I had had this entire shouting face that you can't do this you can't mess around with my career like this I have been the one of the most committed 100 attendance hundred percent whatever you can and there was no reason for you to in hindsight do a suspension and foreign so anyway that is another thing but when I came out and whatever happened happened and I took the decision that I've come I've come to spend my time in the Parliament and contribute that's why I used to tweet out my zero hour every day though it was never acknowledged but I used to tweet it out because I'm committed to my work and | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-49 | tweet it out because I'm committed to my work and I will continue raising those you know in that day uh subsequently so many people got uh suspended I want to find out what did Anil Desai do how did he get suspended exactly life foreign sooner or later because many people told us that because we had suspended 12 of the mlas in the assembly they thought they'd do the same with us in the rajya Sabha they did what they wanted to it's part of the political uh process or decision making whatever they did they did but uh I know and I have no regret so you know um many times there are women politicians uh who get attacked in a similar manner attacked in the sense that uh their aggression is and the whole thing becomes about women but women get trolled on social media women get more uh attacked on you know about their Parliament behavior and stuff but women don't stand with each other yeah that's uh why is it that women parliamentarians don't they they join in in | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-50 | that women parliamentarians don't they they join in in that uh celebration of a woman being attacked why does that they don't join in any woman being attacked let me be uh very clear that uh there's no supports traditional I I and I and it's a matter of regret for me because you know when I started out as a parliamentarian I thought I'll come up with a caucus where women rise above their political differences and stand up for their gender so you know women supporting women is one thing what has happened in the Parliament and I realized and it kind of uh it makes me hope that someday we'll I'll be able to explain it to others for example my own case where I have all whether it was shy if China was getting trolled or whatever I would stand up for her um anybody get enrolled or attacked for an issue which has nothing to do with their political ideas and I would I would definitely stand up but hypocrisy I will learn stand up for if you are | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-51 | hypocrisy I will learn stand up for if you are not speaking up for other women and then you expect support for for women that I will definitely not stand up for you have to make this above your politics unfortunately most of the women in the parliament are are Unfortunately they think that if they go beyond that daira of their political party they might face some consequences because it becomes so vicious like when is attacked there is no way that we see either sushmita Dev or anybody else coming up if uh if smriti Irani is attacked then there's no way you will of course you won't you certainly won't wanna see we have a history you have a history I find it and hypocrisy on her front I will definitely say because uh she took somebody to court because that person called her a very derogatory word and I totally agree with the her taking the call because she's empowered enough and we should do this but when I remember and I've never ever mentioned it two things | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-52 | I remember and I've never ever mentioned it two things which Hit me hard a woman who had a problem with her derogatory word being used for her felt absolutely no guilt in saying foreign to a question that she was asked you know when I had moved from the Congress to ship Cena she was asked a particular question and it will never go out of my mind because you sang yeah I sang a song it became popular so that's basically that politics you you picked up a don't use it I did not use did I use delegate rewards yeah I did not the fact that you picked up her see this is what I'm saying about smriti Rani is that even till date uh when a channel refers to her they say um TV actress turned politician it's that you know it's a subtle way of putting down honestly my point is just this when you picked up that song it was see since she's not your I'm giving you her point of view because it's not a | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-53 | you her point of view because it's not a TV debate but then I will just say this that there's always something like that like Mawa when she does something it you will see that nobody else will because they have a history so listen there's a history for everyone yeah I do Embrace that history many times people tell me that oh you are that turn quote history it was not supposed to be that way so I I if I was someone as famous as that's so Delhi no though you're from Mumbai it's like a successful successful television actress Legacy of work here yeah no she doesn't run away from itself is putting down that people do I don't know I wouldn't look at it as a put down but uh if that that but you calling somebody a Gane Wali is fine with you you know you pulling down um people is absolutely fine that's that's an unfair that's an unfair uh advantage that do you think you can change uh at some point of time yeah absolutely I'll | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-54 | uh at some point of time yeah absolutely I'll be happy to work with any woman Member of Parliament or or for that matter activist or whatever who I have a deferring point of view from to be able to speak about the gender issues see I'll uh while I'm speaking about uh politicians a pile I mean you you know that it even in journalism women journalists don't stand with each other uh in in law they don't stand with each other it's like they you know they feel threatened by other women journalists I don't understand why it happens but it does happen and it more so happens when you reach a certain level when you are at the mid levels make your share of the pie larger rather than fighting over the same share of the pie for example why are you even doing this why are you inviting all this hate whatever whatever and and you know feeling it is it is with every single Indian and that only platforms like movies or television industry you can talk about women | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-55 | like movies or television industry you can talk about women who are empowered without them having to have compromise on anything it's just the ability to be where they are so uh my only thing is that or share of the quitting was not the option for me because I felt I don't want to be a footnote in history I want to be someone who came from the outside world and made an impact uh I don't know if I made an impact or whatever um but so I started this initiative that let's bring in undergrad girls let's teach them how to intern with members of parliament women members of parliament and uh get them an idea of what policy and politics is even if they don't want to get into politics so you would encourage women to get into politics definitely even if someone every time someone asks me and any girl young woman asks me I tell them this is the best time for you to be in politics because suddenly every political party has come to understand there are women women who are | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-56 | has come to understand there are women women who are voting their minds they are coming out in larger numbers to vote and that's a Constance you have to cater to unfortunately politics works like that you'll if you're catering to that particular constancy you will get the results of it so even if a political party is looking at reaping benefits out of more women coming out use that opportunity but do you think do you think most of these political parties just use this merely as a token I would always look at the glasses half full rather than half empty my struggles aside if my struggle encourages more women to come into the system and political parties are talking about from the Red Fort is talking about having more women and empowered women then I think it's a very positive sign for women to step into uh platforms like these and it's encouraging to see that many women are looking at it as something that they could try there is also a time when you know when women were | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-57 | is also a time when you know when women were voting it was they would openly say that Jose like what the husband is going to say we're going to do or what the sarpanch is going to say but uh increasingly at least in two general elections that in the past two general elections one they don't say whom they're going to vote for and not necessary that they're going to vote with what the absolutely sarpanch has told about Bihar was a classic example the last Bihar election was a classic example we just didn't know who they were going to vote for both so that is a very smart way of doing it and I think most of the political parties and the Consultants have become more powerful than the political parties yeah that's another thing about Consultants uh that that you know that now this rise of Consultants uh the non-political consultants in the sense that they've not gone through the politics agnostic but they'll work with all political parties correct they've not worked with the dhul | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-58 | political parties correct they've not worked with the dhul mitti they don't know the ethos of a political party they learn the ethos for the sake of an election they're not ideologically driven they are they are it's the winnability that they are working on how do they build a narrative and once the party wins they become part of the setup and they then get that lateral entry which causes you know I can't think of the English word yeah so how do you do you reconcile with that that okay we are going into this American way of democracy where we need these strategies otherwise it's not possible to win elections actually constancies are so big uh for every Member of Parliament having six assemblies under them and then the population in every assembly is um a lot and if you look at the MP lab funds though people keep abusing criticizing Etc MP funds are never enough to be able to cater to such a large population so at that time when you are absolutely into the last | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-59 | at that time when you are absolutely into the last year of your uh you know election uh your elected term that's when you start to realize okay we'll need some support to be able to streamline this and to get to get people to know what all we've done because uh right but Twitter foreign Ty dipstick surveys and surveys everything becomes so important but then women come out and they say how voted so their reliability is also you know these Consultants reliabilities also comes under the cloud so how do you ensure that they are not deciding your winning combinations but they're ensuring that they're building a narrative I think that is how we uh politics is moving I think BJP tried this Congress tried it Regional parties are trying it and then realizing for example uh West Bengal TMC understood that you know they their connect has to be direct it cannot be via some person in between right uh now you know you are in a party which is in a state of flux and I don't | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-60 | which is in a state of flux and I don't know by the time we now we're recording and by the time we air it you might lose your symbol you might get a new symbol the name of the party is in flux which who which party are you going to be that also Nobody Knows by the time the formulations change you know in the in the party due at any point of time think that galti yoga not at all and let me tell you there's going to be no confusion about which side of the faction I'm on I am without Reggie I will repeat this like 100 times over even if there are three people five people ten people we are going to be fighting this out but I also know very clearly that the huge support that has come forward especially the women in Maharashtra right now is worth observing it is worth observing so what is being discussed here are the Election Commission in customs but the it is only working to consolidate that this has happened incorrectly has | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-61 | to consolidate that this has happened incorrectly has bypassed all civil behavior of democracy Democratic principles and constitutional Norms Maharashtra is if you've seen its voting pattern it's pretty clear it doesn't go backing one political party it you know divide the votes usually are divided so uh but we are seeing we are seeing a consolidation happen and hopefully we will continue to build on that momentum because uh the acceptability of that faction is really um was a challenge we are in 22 now 24 is you know when the Lok Sabha elections happen yeah assuming the elections will happen so we are assuming that you know sometime mid-2024 we'll have the looks of elections in your assembly elections does Mr takare have enough time on his hands to still you know tell people that you know yes I'm out of power yes things have gone wrong but I'm there I'm going to be able to will you be able to you know uh come out at the as a leader that people saw him probably | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-62 | at the as a leader that people saw him probably in so uh two things I'd like to say here eight um I see an Assembly Election happening much before 24. for the sustainability of this government I honestly have my doubts because even if you look at the 10 schedule you look at the anti-defection law you look at the election commission there is no leg for them to stand upon very honestly anti-diffection law very categorically States leadership you defect to the uh but to defect to another party to join another party to merge into another party or and that merging into the party will be decided by the party president not you as a flow leader or a CLP leader because legislative party in the 10 schedule makes it very different from a political party makes it very different from a parliamentary party so that that is that that is one argument and if you look at the Spirit of anti-directional clearly either you go to the people with a new party are you preparing for that they will have | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-63 | new party are you preparing for that they will have to prepare for it they're not the ones who's going to be suspended no but are you ready for uh yes yeah absolutely absolutely the polls and to your question about uh building on that momentum uh little history about even if you look at how shivsena has functioned every time we have seen this kind of of course the the level and scope is much higher what we see right now but at that point in time SRI Raj thakre leaving the party someone from the family leaving the party and accusing of everything uh we we continue to fight he took a different name he was a nephew chief minister everything leaves goes to Congress then he goes to BJP and now every day from you know all the press conference so that happens but it's this is a much on a much larger scale of course of course and if you don't get the symbol you don't get the name or if the name gets split into two this faction and that | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-64 | the name gets split into two this faction and that faction yeah if it no not not necessarily but whatever you know if it becomes shiv Cena shinde or shiv Sena takare or whatever do you do you see a dilution of uh the vote share no um I it is it is very clear that this is a very short-term arrangement for the bharti janta party to back someone but I doubt I have sincere doubts see ultimately the water votes and the water the sentiment that we see on ground right now is very clearly of a betrayal would you would you advise to do something like a Bharat jodo in Maharashtra we are actually Aditya is already doing that he's been touring the length and breadth of the State uh he's gone through the 40 assemblies where this Rebellion happened he's been there the members of parliament who have suicides so those are the constituencies he's been there too first um uh udavji will also begin he was he's making a plan | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-65 | will also begin he was he's making a plan pose to share our we have posted the share a rally because that was the immediate challenge for us we've done that so pass that bypass the kind of popularity that you all would have seen that came naturally organically for him uh and moving forward I'm sure he'll do the Maharashtra to it as well and what about you what do you see your uh future in the party so as far as I'm concerned I have uh I would say that in terms of uh doing whatever I can in whether it is the pratham initiative whether it is the mahila agari whether it is in the parent party whatever responsibility that comes my way I will like I said I have always given my hundred percent I'll probably this time we'll have to give it more than that so you're going to tell your trolls in social media I'm here I'm not leaving yeah I don't need to explain to them okay that's the spirit thank you so much for speaking thank you | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
786c1332d0af-66 | the spirit thank you so much for speaking thank you so much thank you so much for having me that was my conversation with Member of Parliament Priyanka chaturvedi thank you for listening in please like And subscribe to whichever Channel you have heard this on namaste foreign [Music] | GaZ3XdhjdzU |
5c3d8e9e3275-0 | we hit back after palawama we cross the line of control we overflow Pakistan occupied Kashmir we crossed the international boundary we hit inside proper Pakistan balakot is in Pakistan is not in Pakistan occupied Kashmir so that is where we Bridge their air defense system we Bridge their Pakistan Air Force we hit and we came back safely now that is the strength military strength of a Nation Pakistan Army till date has not been able to answer to the public foreign foreign welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash today my guest is General kavaljit Singh dhillon now many of you might know him from his Twitter Avatar was this legendary tweet that he did about Kashmir and now it's in a book form many of his friends and colleagues know him as Tiny Dylan even though he's six feet plus but then he was once on the hot seat in Kashmir Jen Dylan thank you so much for coming to my podcast it's an honor to have you here so uh we all know you uh | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-1 | have you here so uh we all know you uh as the man in the hot seat in Kashmir uh we also know you from your Twitter Avatar and specially your uh that famous tweet kitne gazi eye that is that was a legend when you made that and you know so many people admire you for being so forthright on Twitter but of course I mean uh you were there when pulwama Bala caught all these things I'll come one by one uh to all of them but my first question of course would be on bulbama you were there you were posted in Kashmir then yes so you know there was a lot which was talked about that it was whether it was an intelligence failure whether it was a systems failure could you tell us what happened then good afternoon first of all Obama was a very sad incident it was I had taken over 15 core on 10th of February and 14th February happened so it is just after four days and initially we did not know the magnitude of the incident but | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-2 | we did not know the magnitude of the incident but by and by when you came to know when the number of casualties became clear we realized how big the incident was and coming to your question specific was it an intelligence failure here I would like to clarify a few things we have enemy who is always up to a mischief on the line of control inside the hinterland in Kashmir in Mainland India every time so the number of incidents which are avoided or which are not allowed to take place because of the intelligence agencies the security forces the synergy those incidents or the numbers don't come out in the media or in the public domain and there's a reason for it Suppose there is an incident which was to happen and we have got the with of it we picked up the chatter and we avoided that incident now if we announce it that this has happened and this is what we did and Pat our backs openly the enemy would come to know how we picked it up and how we not | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-3 | know how we picked it up and how we not allowed it to happen so it's a game in the intelligence where you don't say what you have been able to avoid right so that enemy doesn't pick up your capabilities your resources your assets so coming back to palawama if out of 100 incidents which were planned by the enemy 99 are not allowed to happen and unfortunately I repeat again unfortunately one incident happens and that incident happened to be a very big one so that does not mean in any way that the intelligence agencies are not doing their job because they were able to avoid say 99 robot or numbers one is incident is unfortunately that's agreed but we cannot start blaming our intelligence agency or Security Forces because they are in the line of fire literally every day they're away from their families they are losing their life and limb of course for the nation and I would request all those people who shouted from the rooftops that it was Intelligence failure to spare a thought spare a thought that | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-4 | failure to spare a thought spare a thought that type of job we are doing there is a whole nation which is behind this there's a proper regular army which is doing all this now to curtail the actions of those people which are being planned at that level it takes lots of efforts but so my question is it's not to castigate but to ask where was there some systems like the the Sops were not followed maybe that there was some failure in that would you say Mom I have seen Kashmir like you have seen for last more than 30 years how initially the Conway used to move how the road used to be closed the link roads used to be blocked and nobody was allowed to come on the roadside then when the terror graph came down when the incidents came down the piece more or less got established so a lot of things were relaxed it was because the general public was feeling the pinch and there were somehow not allowed to move on the road where the military convoys or the | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-5 | on the road where the military convoys or the BSF or the police conways are moving so buy and buy with this civilian traffic also coming on the roads and over the last 30 years the number of vehicles which have increased the automobiles the two wheelers which have ingredient people are using it so there was uh I'll say very less checking or control over the civilian traffic onto the roads when the military convoys were moving yeah so the terrorists took advantage of this uh relaxation of our security forces wherein we were doing it for our public they are good and they took advantage of this and they in a civil vehicle in a civil mode they entered the convey and rest as well where they blew off the vehicle so if those civilians were not allowed on the road this incident would not have how did it change the situation on the ground because uh an attack like this it does demoralize so how do you how do you keep keep it going with your with your men how do you keep | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-6 | going with your with your men how do you keep them motivated when something like this happens so many casualties exactly the same point how to keep the morale High I had written a detailed chapter in my book which we can talk later but on that day on Twitter on Instagram on Facebook for next three days from our dialogue from a popular Hindi movie how is the Josh was changed to how is the Jesh referring to jaise Muhammad especially all the Pakistani handles so we knew as a system as a security forces that we need to hit back at the earliest I still remember going for a meeting that evening where all the security agencies and the intelligencies are meeting my ADC a young Captain he asked me sir pardon my language I will get the bastards and we did exactly that as a very concerted effort of intelligence and security within 48 within 100 hours we eliminated the module which had carried out the plurama incident and that is where the morale which you refer to morale came | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-7 | where the morale which you refer to morale came back the best way to liven up the soldiers morale is to achieve success in soldiers life incidents will happen bad incidents will happen that does not mean we sit back and keep crying over it I'll tell you about Special Forces of India Whenever there is an accident when the parrot drop from aircraft sometimes the parachute doesn't open or malfunctions or there's something which goes wrong when there is an incident within next few hours the whole Battalion goes up and jumps again the commanding of the leading this is how you bring in the confidence back this is how you keep the morale High and success is the best medicine to have high moral and we achieved success within 100 hours do you think that pulbama in some way was a turning point where even the political leadership felt that this cannot go unavenged now every incident of Terror in my opinion needs to be hit back we as a nation a nation of our strength not only | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-8 | as a nation a nation of our strength not only in Manpower but economy and Military we cannot afford to take any nonsense from anyone we need to hit back and I'm very happy and glad that the government decided to hit back and I was part of that so there is no way we can take Terror in any form on any citizen of India at any place in India you had a question uh Ajit on pulvama that you wanted to ask about uh sir uh when you people uh when the attack happened you had just taken over uh and uh I remember it very uh clearly we had met you at the maneksha center where you told us that I'll be going this would be exciting day 15th core 15. there was some function in manaksha Center yeah so uh you were very excited to take up the assignment when the news first came to you how was the feeling sir was it in some way were you were you worried that oh what has happened I've just come | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-9 | that oh what has happened I've just come and this has happened for 10 years you had done before this was three ten years total of eight ten years ago sessions and six of them in Kashmir in Kashmir so yeah this was sixth one this was the sixth one okay so how how how did you react personally sir like we know uh how you motivated others how you took out Jazz Terrace how you took out the entire network how people were afraid to join Jess after this incident but what was the personal feeling sir so personal feeling like I told earlier initially the gravity of the incident was not very clear in first few minutes as would happen we call it fog of war or in a combat situation the clarity comes slowly and slowly so when the moment this incident happened I called up Mr zolofkar Hassan who was igp crpf and he had also got the intimation just then I immediately put in all the aviation resources that the helicopters at my | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-10 | all the aviation resources that the helicopters at my command in my dispose at my disposal in 15 core all the helicopter fleet was put on a lot and told to fly to palawama to pick up the coyotes the 92 base Hospital was told to get on high alert all the doctors the nurses were told to report to the trauma center in wherever they are whichever dressed they are and they were prepared to handle massive casualties all the ambulances in Srinagar were got together and moved towards palawama so that anyone who is not able to be flown out can be moved by what because just for 20 odd minutes drive from there so first thing was this to manage the casualties in the meantime when I spoke to the Brigadier who was Aeros sector Commander when he told me the type of the losses which have taken place I spoke to the dgmo Jalen Johann present CDs was the dgmo I continuously uh kept speaking to him and kept giving | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-11 | continuously uh kept speaking to him and kept giving him the updates and spoke to Jal rawat who was the Army Chief at that time and thereafter once we manage the casualties and as a commander in any combat situation you can't afford to lose control of yourself if you lose control of yourself you lost control of the situation incidents will happen situations will come in the combat zone which you have to face unfortunately for me I had number of 10 years before that and I had various encounters and cases so it was nothing new to me but yes the the the gravity was new to me but immediately after that we had a meeting that evening and there afterwards like I said earlier we go down to business of gathering intelligence and here I would like to say it's not that the intelligence came in a lap we've worked for it for next 48 hours none of my commanders or commanding officers or police SPS or digs none of them slept for next two days they were | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-12 | of them slept for next two days they were continuously on operations were hitting all the known or slightly known hideouts or the sympathizers places so that we don't let them come to a place and relax we wanted them to keep shifting if they will shift they will talk people will see we will get the intelligence so we've worked in a very concerted plan to get the intelligence about this module which finally after 48 hours we got it in pengalana village and we launched an oppression immediately we coordinated the whole thing with police crpf intelligences and we Lodge the pressure and in that oppression in the initial few minutes but hats off to 55 raster rifles and Jammu Kashmir police not a single boy had the lowering of morale in spite of the initial setback and we eliminated the complete module by evening of 18th February right so you uh you mentioned General rawat we all know you and uh General rawat had a special relation and he had firm belief in you and sometimes | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-13 | relation and he had firm belief in you and sometimes mom he told us that uh one day it was a kargil widgets all three Chiefs had gone to lay president then president was had come down to Srinagar I was with the president at the Srinagar airport and all the chiefs were in Lay but the president could not fly to because of the weather and he laid that he said the Srinagar yeah uh this war memorial which we organized within 30 minutes and the president led the wreath and paid his homage incidentally Cargill war was fought under 15 core that 10 14 core was not there so all the names of the Cargill uh was from there in that war memorial yeah so it was absolutely in place for the president to Las told me one day the weather is packing up so he says yeah so uh sir I just wanted to ask you pulvama happened he was the chief what was his mandate to you the chief he gave you a lot of space | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-14 | you the chief he gave you a lot of space he was very clear he gave you space for oppressions for intelligence for administration he was not the one who would keep asking every five days or 10 days or 20 days what's happening why this why not he appointed your court Commander then he'll let you be there afterwards it's up to you to call up the chief and give him a feedback if something very important has happened although he never interfered with the job now coming back to specific about palawama like I said earlier I was feeding the dgmos feeding the Army commander and I spoke to Jal rawat he never asked me because every time a senior officer calls you up to check on what you are doing it creates an environment of pressure he himself being such a combat man having been an oppression throughout his life he realized the importance of not calling up the field Commanders I learned this one I also never call up my field commanders so he gives space and feedback he | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-15 | field commanders so he gives space and feedback he was always getting so he was very sure that things are moving in the right direction but he never interfered at the ground level so um from pulvama let's go to uh what happened at Bala Court you know there are so many versions that one has heard you've heard politicians talk about it there's media reporting and there was a lot of controversy also so you know the Pakistan got the narrative lead on that and they managed to manipulate uh International opinion and to some extent even Indian opinion in the media in certain sections of the media so while there was an operations part of it there was also the ground situation in India and then there was a media element to it you saw all that happening so could you give us shed some light on what happened then from I'll put it little differently point is we did it we hit back after palawama we use the Air Force we cross the line of control we overflow Pakistan occupied | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-16 | we cross the line of control we overflow Pakistan occupied Kashmir we crossed the international boundary we hit inside proper Pakistan balakotas in Pakistan is not in Pakistan Kashmir so that is where we Bridge their air defense system we Bridge their Pakistan Air Force we hit and we came back safely now that is the strength military strength of a Nation now on ground people can have their own versions I will go by what the government and the Air Force version is and that is what is final with me I will not go into the politics or what the politicians are saying as a soldier I would know if our Air Force has reached there they have bombarded that place they have achieved their aim now I am not going to quantification because that would get into the political uh Arena which I want to know what did your people feel then on the ground you know those who lost uh their men they they might have lost family uh in polvama and and of course you eliminated the terror but uh Terra module as you | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-17 | eliminated the terror but uh Terra module as you said within a hundred hours but then when balacode happened it must have given this surge of confidence isn't it um I'll give you a small uh if I happened where we lost 40 crpf bravehearts line of control in kupada sector is at a different level there are different units the Army deployed there when our aircraft crossed the line of control by the way they went into balakot through my area so when they crossed the lane or control the boy on the duty there told this company Commander he called me up directly and the choppiness the Josh in his voice but that is what balakot did to the morale of every Indian not only a soldier I could see that thing on the telephone earphone and the way this young boy young major was trying to tell me sir guy but he he couldn't even wait to tell his children you can see uh General that in spite of so many operations you're getting emotional even | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-18 | spite of so many operations you're getting emotional even thinking back on that because it was important for us to hit back and I'm very glad that government decided to hit back and hit back hard but these are decisions which are taken with a lot of foresight and it takes a lot of planning I mean that every time there is an incident you hit back immediately but to restrain yourself is also a big task isn't it I'm it's a very considered decision you have to weigh the pros and cons you have to wear your own vulnerabilities you have to wear your strengths you have to see enemies vulnerability and then you hit you go to cover your deficiencies and vulnerabilities before you hit so that in case there's a Counter-Strike you don't get hit further badly right so this is a military appreciation and I'm glad it was done to the Precision and when we decided to go in nobody knew including Pakistan that tonight Indian Air Force will go in and that is the | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-19 | Indian Air Force will go in and that is the type of secrecy which was maintained talking about secrecy I mean you've done uh Intel uh like I said earlier that you must be seeing because you're so active on social media that when you see this kind of disinformation deliberate misinformation which goes on month to say that what she's saying is wrong with I have the information but you can't because when you are in this hot seat you cannot you cannot tell them that what you are doing what you're saying is wrong but the real stuff is this I remember the lighter note a lot of noise is always good for intelligence fog of War as you wish so that your actual intelligence then doesn't get picked up okay you had a question on Balor Court sir uh I wanted to ask you like uh 2016 when URI happened the special forces were sent in to Pakistan that was a surprise and uh so they never expected that we'll come back so hard this time in post Paloma the Air Force | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-20 | so hard this time in post Paloma the Air Force was given the opportunity and they did what they had to they crossed over attacked was the Army also ready with a plan at that time sir because it was your area it had happened in your AR uh was the Army also ready with options to carry out cross-border strikes I don't know how much you are into Sufi music or guzzles this is a very famous Ghazal but yes URI was there I forgot completely to ask about URI I mean that that got famous of course when it happened then I had interviewed at that time even the Prime Minister would URI and he's he spoke about that and he you know I told him that when that when that strike happened suppose the people didn't come back our men didn't come back alive then that comes on you that you're a warmonger and you've also you know your men had also gone so he did say in his own way that it would it till they came | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-21 | his own way that it would it till they came back safe and his first question was that his first question to his people whoever he called up I don't know he was monitoring them he was monitoring he just wanted to know have all of them come back alive what they have hate were how much success and all is a later part but prime minister was very very clear that that he wanted to know have not leave behind anybody man leave behind I mean that's that's legendary that you you know the Indian army doesn't leave behind uh any of their people so can you tell me how uh URI was was also another success Point surgical strike of URI was a wonderful oppression very meticulously planned with military position and the point which you made about suffering casualties during operations my way of looking at it is some things are too honorable to even die for so when you are doing an operation for your nation even dying is okay it is part of the training you and not leaving Men | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-22 | is part of the training you and not leaving Men Behind in NDM you don't leave your bicycle behind if a bicycle gets punctured or the chain breaks or anything you carry it lug it on a shoulder you don't leave it behind like I said it's part of the training so in training we are told not to leave a bicycle behind how can we leave a man behind Indian army does not leave its dead behind unlike Pakistan Army which during Cargill left their soldiers on the Indian soil and refused to reclaim their mortal remains even when offered it is the Indian army which gave them a decent value as per the religious rituals yeah yeah and they refused it even during when I was the court Commander in kupada sector the five dead bodies were lying on the line of control they were trying to infiltrate they refused to take them back we have different heaters our value systems are different so our culture is different as you told us to your boy saw | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-23 | different as you told us to your boy saw the aircraft going across the loc and hitting in Targets in Pakistan what was the preparation that you did for the uh counter attack from the Pakistani Serpa because they did come back on 27th operation Swift where they missed all the targets uh that is a different story but how was the Army prepared how how you had planned to check any retaliation from their side on ground I'll answer a question in two parts one is a very good journalist you are insisting on the same question again second is we had covered all eventualities and all contingencies I will leave it at that all contingencies were catered For and did they try to do anything on ground the Pakistan they are not come to article 370. when uh when the when it was taken off uh entire media by the way man this question of did Pakistan do anything Pakistan Army till date has not been able to answer to the public because foreign yeah article 317 I'm going to ask you on that | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-24 | yeah article 317 I'm going to ask you on that because uh you know the media uh abroad and even some part of Indian media said or you know observers military observers they said that the death toll would be you know close to a hundred close to 200 300 and even could go up to thousands everybody thought there would be massive Bloodshed the whole operation was done in such a secret manner there was a lot of movement previous day nobody knew okay even the governor was giving mixed signals couldn't understand what is happening there must have been a lot of planning I'm sure you can't reveal much about what happened and how the planning to it but now that a little time has passed could you give us a glimpse about the pre-stage of Articles how did you prepare for what happened now firstly it was a government's decision to abrogate article 370 35a delimitation and reorganization of the state into union territories uh for us as a security forces it was to be implemented the | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-25 | as a security forces it was to be implemented the government's rate must run on each and every inch of ground of India we could not and we would not have allowed anyone to not allow Indian government state to be run in India so for us the aim was very clear it's a government decision which has been passed by the parliament accented by the president honorable president it has to be implemented now coming back to your point as to before 370. I have written in detail in my book and I've only written about two percent of the actions which were done still it has taken three chapters oh my God and the type of preparation which was made knowingly unknowingly and most important was the point to maintaining secrecy in the Army in May 15 core not a single person knew as to what's going to happen same was the case with the police the Civil Administration very very few people knew what is going to happen that was the secrecy and every eventuality every contingency was scattered forth so there's | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-26 | eventuality every contingency was scattered forth so there's a lot of details which were coordinated one thing I can tell you all the discussions happened between two and a half people in core commanders doing room and you won't tell us who those two and a half so okay nothing was discussed outside Four Walls of the core Commander to England because that place was considered the most secure place and once that day once it was abrogated and the next 48 hours were crucial or the next 72 hours or next one week what was that crucial time period when you felt okay we haven't lost men civilians haven't died which means we are doing our job properly what was that that crucial period of time Kashmir situation can change in a second okay so when we went in after 5th of August 2019 the two amps like I said earlier one is the government's rate must run second was while implementing it there should be no loss of life of civilian no damage to property public or private and | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-27 | of civilian no damage to property public or private and it has to be implemented in totality okay so we had given ourselves an open-ended aim and close to about three months not a single civilian casualty happened at the hands of security forces those was the most peaceful three months in the history of terrorism in Kashmir in last 32 years at a stretch wherein you didn't have any loss of property private or public no loss of civilian life all the casualties which happened happened by the terrorist a gun Terrace Two Gun Down civilians who were opening shops or truck drivers or Orchard owners but nothing happened from the government side and it got implemented very very peacefully the credit has to go to all the security forces intelligence agencies Jammu Kashmir police civil Administration and above everyone the avam of Kashmir Joseph you've spoken about a selective Amnesia in Kashmir of you know people uh preferring never to talk or not to talk about uh The Exodus of kashmiri uh Hindus | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-28 | uh The Exodus of kashmiri uh Hindus from German Kashmir and you know moving to safer locals in in the rest of the country and uh it's something that was not spoken about for decades uh I've seen it happening you know the first Exodus the second Exodus Third Exodus I've seen people just keeping silence over that but when you did speak about this selective Amnesia I'm going to quote from a website uh and because you you you tend to speak you you tend to speak your mind just like General rawat did and this time I was in service you were in service right now it that website and I quote from it it said generals the General's plain speak is a departure from standard that guides civil military relations and cannot be allowed to go unremarked true a president has already been set by his boss the chief of Defense staff CDs General bipin rawat who has done so repeatedly over the years since his elevation to the post of army Chief since that | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-29 | elevation to the post of army Chief since that has become rawat's trademark it is somewhat normalized perhaps allowing his subordinates to take a cue genza did it did you take a cue from general rawat or or is this something that you believed in and you felt that these old rules don't hold it's time to speak up now first of all whosoever wrote that um leave that at that okay now second point is ma'am I have seen Kashmir since 1988. six tenures Captain major left knuckle CEO Brigade Commander bgs score Commander so I have seen how people have kept quiet on things which have happened May It Be kashmiri panditas may it be the number of exoduses which you spoke about may it be the innocent civilian Skilling made be the girls and women getting killed at Point Blank Range the people who otherwise make too much noise decided to keep quiet on those my point is be normal you make a noise now you make a noise then we accept you but | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-30 | now you make a noise then we accept you but to keep quiet when it suits you and to shout when it doesn't suit you is what mile is referring to they don't receive the hypocrisy without getting into the politics of it because that seminar was on 30 years of terrorism I said why are those people who are you know championing certain causes why are they not speaking how the kashmiri society has been hit in the same talk I had said why people are not talking about the mother of a terrorist who lost a son I have a lot of yes foreign her son would have been with her her son would have been a grown-up man would have been learning well after having got good education her son did not get good education he did not go to school he didn't go to college instead he went as a Canon folder to the terrorist and got killed in an encounter so I want these people or for that matter anyone would like these people to speak about these issues but he | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-31 | like these people to speak about these issues but he doesn't suit them yeah because the mother is going to turn around that operation Mao was uh was this mainstreaming of you know bringing people who were Stone pelters boys who were Stone pelters bringing them into mainstream work uh asking mothers to get involved uh asking them to speak to their children that was a very uh it was a kind of a turning point in these counter-terror operations wasn't it or what should I say counter terror is not the word umbrella but uh some kind of bringing those you know misguided youths into uh into mainstream work uh that was something I'm sure it must have been very close to your heart yes ma'am uh mother is very close to my heart it's close to every person's heart but for different reasons but I'll go back to Kashmir as a young captain or as a young major when I was operating in North Kashmir any local terrorist who was eliminated or killed in an encounter those days mobiles | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-32 | or killed in an encounter those days mobiles were not there invariably we would recover a letter from his body which either he has written to the mother and not yet posted or mother has written and he's received it so that told me that boys in kashmiri society are very close to their mother as against being close to the father maybe the mother is the custodian of the family and stays close so that is where I realized that they listened to their mother so when I become a core Commander the first thing I said was let's involve the mothers into this like I just now said no one has understood the grief of the mother of terrorists so we started operation Ma and I don't use the word surrender I use the word return We involve the mothers we involve the you know opinion makers the sarpanches the friends who this boy will listen to and there have been instances where the counter-terror oppression was stopped halfway through the mother or the brother or somebody was called will | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-33 | mother or the brother or somebody was called will speak to them on the loud Heller the loudspeaker or on the mobile and try and convince that boy to come out they also have been times when the boys recharge Mobility charge had run out we paid for that recharge so that he can talk to his mother and his life can be saved and during that one year more than 50 boys more than 50 boys returned under the supply Sharma which was of course it was a thought which went in first but later on everyone joined in the security forces the Civil Administration Jammu Kashmir police even the locals the opinion makers the elders so there were people who would come to me and say sir Assurance was there will be no police case made against the boy that he will not be harassed he will not be asked to come to the police station or the court or anything there will be just no police case second is he would be given the option of where does he want to start his new life if | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-34 | where does he want to start his new life if he is eligible and qualified he could have been taken as a special police officer in the Jammu Kashmir police there is a territorial Army home and hearth if he fits all the criterias and qualifies physically and education wise he could have been taken into territory army or if he wants to go to Jammu or Chandigarh start a new life as a auto driver or whatever depending on his education and depending on his capability all facilities were provided financially and administratively for them to start a new life we did not leave it at that okay is come back we followed it through them you've done so many tenures in uh in Kashmir I have to ask you this simply because uh you know there's this thing that uh there is ground support and there's always been ground support for Pakistan in Kashmir jab cricket match they support the uh the Pakistani team not the Indian team you might tell people that that's not the case there's just one | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-35 | people that that's not the case there's just one or two incidents that happen but there's one or two incidents just the fact that somebody can waver Pakistani flag because in India Pakistan cricket match is not just a cricket match it's much more than that everybody knows it so when when you are there do you did you did you feel that that ground support is weakening or is it just as strong or is it so inherenta mom again I've seen it since my captain days the point which you're making yes that feeling was there 80s and 80s and 90s and that then came the radicalization and then there's one very important thing we all miss out in kashmiri society in the last 35 years or so the education kashmiri pandits everyone talks about us everyone talks about but when kashmiri pandits went out or Kashmir the way education system in Kashmir crumbled because kashmiri pandits were the Mainstay of education system primary schools overnight that system of Education | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-36 | of education system primary schools overnight that system of Education crumbled and all the schools were of wooden buildings terrorists burned down all schools in the Countryside what is like what's happening in Afghanistan so that they become Canon photo and that started happening once the child is not educated the socio-political economic impact of terrorism was felt this boy and who personally you must see this whole game huriyat would call for a hotel every second day yeah a businessman Japanese school he cannot catch up because yeah and then in the end of the Academic Year in Mass promotion to the next class so as a result when he came to 10th or 12th he was not qualified enough to compete in competitive exams yeah to get into a good college or a good University or a professional College so what was he left with he was left with only option to join terrorism yeah or else crossed the border recruiting get trained and come back so this was a very you know well thought of ecosystem which was working yeah | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-37 | know well thought of ecosystem which was working yeah but there was also uh we keep talking about deer radicalization but there was a time in the 90s in that Village he was the hero the one who went into terrorism not even in the hardcore areas which were considered no-go area literally he will go in and they used to prosper it's not as if that you know that Village did not Prosper or that family did not Prosper they prospered beta terrorism again there was enough money to send their daughter to a medical college or to send her to America or to send your other son to America you sent to Europe or wahape there was another ecosystem they were looked after but that ecosystem has failed that support system seems to have broken down do you did did you see that happening in your time [Music] you have to understand one thing man we all have to understand one thing everything which is becoming lucrative and you were used as becoming Heroes you have to make it | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-38 | were used as becoming Heroes you have to make it expensive for that person is this is what the security forces did I'll give you the data figures which I got very often between 89 sorry 2019 and 18. one and a half two years of data all the local boys who had joint terrorism seven percent died in the first 10 days Seventeen percent died in the first three months including the seven thirty four percent died in the first six months 64 percent died in the first one year that may now becoming a terrorist was not becoming a hero it was a sure showed death yeah not just monetarily it is death death it is death and another data which we had was all those boys who joined terrorism 83 percent of them had a record of stone pelting that means today a mother might feel he's going out throwing Stone earning 500 rupees coming back now once this realization came and I'm talking with data and facts and figures once this relation came that heropanti came down and also that romanticization which | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-39 | heropanti came down and also that romanticization which was happening with the stone pelters and that was done uh uh you know not just by by people by the people of Kashmir who could be misled but also by some of the leaders in Kashmir political leaders thought leaders and some of our media people also who said that no they are they are just protesters and they are people who wanted change that romanticizing went away that that was also a thing to someone I will not talk about the politicians but I will tell you something which happened because of opening up of the media or the globalization or the internet people started coming to know what's happening in Pakistan occupied Kashmir the families or the people or the boys who had gone out and not returned now they were settled in Pakistan occupied Kashmir they were 30 years of age 35 years married with kids the way they were being treated there people realize um how will they help us even if there is ajadi so lot of things happen hold | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-40 | there is ajadi so lot of things happen hold went down the shelf life of a terrorist went down the economic Aid which was coming was curtailed and the life across the line of control of fellow kashmiris all these were in addition then when your boy is there you are a mother I am a father when your child does not get admission in a good school or a good Cola jury doesn't score wealth yeah and you don't know what to do with him or his life or her life foreign you still are in touch with a lot of people a lot of journalists they are in touch with you um and ma'am talked about cricket matches Pakistan people in Srinagar uh waving Pakistani Flags during victories of Pakistan a cricket team now today sir if we ask you not about politicians not about but general public what is what is Pakistan for them like what comes to their mind or what is their feeling about Pakistan uh what happened was uh after partition till 89 it was just about | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-41 | was uh after partition till 89 it was just about 40 odd years so the Elder generation had seen the partition Elder generation had seen how the West Pakistan refugees who came to Kashmir were not even given the citizenship of India and how they were treated but the Young Generation which are joining terrorism in 89s and 90s had not seen partition or the Pakistan side of it but today like I said with the global village and the internet and other things coming up today everyone is very clear Pakistan is not supporting terrorism to help a kashmiri Cause Pakistan is spotting terrorism to help their own cause of keeping Kashmir card alive so that they keep getting the AIDS from different parts of the world in the name of what's happening in Kashmir and also within Pakistan politically economically militarily diplomatically the failing on all fronts to keep the anger of the public away from these things they have to play the Kashmir card and Sir so everyone today is intelligent enough understand this game young boys | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-42 | today is intelligent enough understand this game young boys who have interacted with incorrect matches and other places they will tell you in a private moments that's why this is all these youth who are joining the terror groups the youngsters especially those born in late 90s early 2000s those who are joining they are joining terrorist terrorist groups for the Islamic Jihad or for the cause of Kashmir wow what do you think suppose what is the main driving force what is this point as per 2011 census 62 percent of the population of Kashmir Jammu and Kashmir that time German Kashmir was below the age of 30 years in 2011 today this figure might have gone to 67.68 percent that means two-thirds of population of Kashmir two third of the population is less than 30 years of age which directly implies that two-thirds of the young population was born after 1989. they were born and brought up under the gun culture yeah they have faced the attached issues when there is a combat situation or a conflict | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-43 | when there is a combat situation or a conflict situation this shinach parades all these things your father being questioned in front of you when you're a five-year-old boy yeah the terrorists walking into a home at night and telling your mother or sister to cook food for them at the gunpoint these things have had scar on their side yeah so there is a issue there we need to understand a kashmiri person how he thinks yeah and today that time it was all the equation of Romanticism but today is a realism at 30 years of age is a man enough to understand what is right what is wrong okay so the realization is coming in coupled with that the economic packages which are going in the number of medical colleges the opportunities are increasing if the nine medical colleges which are come up in Kashmir that means those many people can join Medical College now they will not be looking for a different thing after 10th or 12th class so those opportunities the economic opportunities the | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-44 | class so those opportunities the economic opportunities the education system improving slowly and slowly and then realization that Pakistan will that mute or will that negate that what Ajit was talking about this desire to be part of the Islamic Jihad memo 100 percentage [Laughter] but yes reasonable section of the society huh in my opinion which is considered opinion and informed opinion based on certain facts and life I've seen in last 35 years in Kashmir majority of the population now looks for good education good job settle life good family life you know prosperity for the children yeah good house travel abroad and nice decent settled life a family life since you're mentioning Family Life foji family life now that uh you're uh you know you've retired and you can actually you know have relaxed family life you don't have to you can have your cup of tea and more than cup of tea I think now you're having Sumptuous breakfast I see in your Twitter handle you put this fabulous pictures of | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-45 | in your Twitter handle you put this fabulous pictures of breakfast and I think you know okay then maybe retired okay how is retired life treating you uh my retired life is State of Mind okay when you're working you can act like a retired and when you're retired you can act like a working person I do a lot of work for myself for my family for my household even gardening even writing letters even speaking to people whom you have not been able to interact for a very long time so that keeps you occupied enjoying like because there was a food I love food and I love cooking also yeah I have seen that and even your Twitter you know uh you take down trolls with with a lot of Grace and even when you were in service you were tweeting did you did that come up love for a little bit of conflict at times that you know because serving officers usually don't interact much even if they have they have this Shady Twitter handle just memorable they don't inform who | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-46 | Shady Twitter handle just memorable they don't inform who they are what was it like when you were in service and you had that Twitter and before that I'll answer the previous question of family life so we have two families one is your own immediate family that is wife's children father mother brother sister and second is your unit judgment company and when minimum 10 months after 12 we spend with that power so for a 4G for a soldier unit regimentation that is the family operations Sagar he gave a call to me because that had happened my minimum 20 years ago yeah and that is the way families and immediate family more than our sacrifice I think it is the wife and the children who sacrifice more wife is a single point pivot who brings up the family brings up the children looks after the parents look after siblings as also don't never tells you okay there issues at home problems [Music] wife would never call up to say so the wife of a soldier is the biggest strength of | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-47 | wife of a soldier is the biggest strength of soldier and from the mother the children pick up this thing yeah never in my last 35 years of marriage have my children ever told me Papa we need this it will interfere with his thinking it will be on his mind he may not be able to do his job properly so this is another aspect of a Fuji's family now coming back to after retirement yes I have full time with the family here but I miss that family there yes I can well imagine and now I'm about Twitter very interesting in the same uh seminar in my next Center where I met ajith General Bhatia foreign military operations and my senior and I learned a lot from him a thorough gentleman a world-class professional military professional he asked me he said you're going to 15 core are you on Twitter I said no sir I don't know anything about Twitter he said you must be on Twitter and keep observing you get a lot of feedback and he also suggested the | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-48 | get a lot of feedback and he also suggested the same pseudo handle he says Mega handle just observe people I'll tell you whomble to follow because the people who are you know into this opinion makers and you get a feedback anyway I went to 15 core I told some youngster I served Twitter account so this is so he made an account so he says I'm all these things I said write down kgs he said no sir you are not authorized to make a Twitter account foreign I said what is social media social media is perception management if has a 15 core Commander I cannot be sensible enough what to write on Twitter and what not to write how can I be sensible enough to carry out oppression the line of control over in the hinterland everyone is believing in me he will handle the line of control which is very active he will handle the hinterland in Kashmir which is again very active with great responsibility but he can't handle this Twitter handle responsibly so I came on the Twitter | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-49 | this Twitter handle responsibly so I came on the Twitter in my name as 15 core Commander chinar core Commander and because when I do it people take notice and then okay it's like I I came to Srinagar uh a month before article 370. I was there a month before uh and while I didn't know the others uh and I had it was the first time I was meeting you but because I had seen your Twitter Avatar I knew that the question I will ask you you will not fudge a reply you will give me the reply see the blunt yes no or I cannot speak about it do you understand like what I mean to say is that I guess uh because as journalists Ajit you also know that you know when we ask questions of politicians but then with you and with the others who were there what we didn't know was that the abrogation is going to take place but all of us journalists but we knew something was in the offing but yes because of your Outreach I think many | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-50 | but yes because of your Outreach I think many people know about you know of you uh so you tell me that you know when you speak to civilians now now that you're on the other side of the fence do you feel that the Bollywood uh you know picturization of what the Special Forces do uh and what what you know because there's so much of glorification of special forces in in America you know the seals and everything there's so much of that in Israel you hear us and you see but in India romantic it doesn't seem real to some of us absolutely soldiering is a serious business and you see some wonderful war movies made by the western movie makers the realism is true in our case the research work which is required does not go into I suppose as a result what do you see the siyosa singing songs and that doesn't happen in the real sense yes do sing songs but then there is okay but the type of you know because as a result they lose the plot | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-51 | you know because as a result they lose the plot and okay trying to protect his daughter from everyone standing uh you know image in the Hindi movies yeah but he only hope and believe jensab you mentioned about you being called tiny I mean our viewers would love to know your six feet plus right how did how did that name come for you I remember I was commissioned in fourth Battalion the rajputana rifles that is for rajidev and foreign which was opposite to his personality that's sweet and then that was also the codeword used on the radio set while communicating on the wireless and other things so this name would remain with you even operationally and otherwise so since I was six feet three inches I was given the nickname of tiny there's another officer senior to me majora he's also six three he was called shorty okay and officer younger to me who is a left now who is the color of the regiment he's also six three he was named mini but some other mini thing | 9aMAU7C_ymU |
5c3d8e9e3275-52 | three he was named mini but some other mini thing didn't stick but because he was called Carrie okay and the most meticulous officer in my unit he was called Goofy so so these names are there which so the pakistanis or the enemy doesn't know who's coming yes I mean if they if they see you coming and saying yeah absolutely right and they probably thinking yeah after that right what is the life of a special forces officer I have worked with the practically every Special Forces battalion even as a captain I had a another Captain for Special Forces sit in my banker then as a major other CEO and they are a different breed firstly the most motivated highly qualified and IQ and thinking of course is everyone's because you come through SSB you come to the psychology test but they are motivated to the Core the first time when I went with the special forces of for an ambush for eight days we lied in a we are lying in an ambush in a lob and if we had | 9aMAU7C_ymU |