re : 6 . 783 , german affricates in regard to roger lass 's comments on ts vs . t # s ( or c ^ vs ts , as he puts it ) , i 'd like to comment that the pronunciation for t # s that he gives may not pertain for many american english speakers . i think i ' m not alone in having something like [ ? s ] ( ? = glottal stop , s = esh ) or [ raised - ? ts ] in the t # s case . in any case , as he indicates , the difference is one of a phonetic detail that is simply invisible in certain styles of phonological transcription . john e . koontz nist : caml : sced 883 . 04 boulder , co koontz @ boulder . nist . gov