I can only hope the owners would be so stupid. If the NFL dissolves itself, what’s the first thing that will happen? The UFL or any other new league will open with 30-32 teams with all the same players from the NFL. So unless you were watching Giants v. Eagles because you love the historic connection the teams keep to YA Tittle and Ron Jaworski, I’m pretty sure you’re going to watch the same teams and players play in the new league.

I leave open the possibility that the people who so blindly support the owners would watch the NFL with scrub replacements as long as there were enough shots of the Kraft and Rooney families up in their owners boxes. For those people, I simply ask that you please stop ruining the game for the rest of us.

Lastly, how do people look themselves in the mirror when they say they’re free enterprise and hate unions for destroying America, but they want to force the players to be in a union and not be allowed to sell their services to the highest bidder?

]]>By: anthonyfromstatenislandhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1060496
Wed, 11 May 2011 13:15:01 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1060496But hank10: What if it’s more like $13.5 billion the owners and players do not collect?

18 + 34 + 14 = making it closer to $13.5B than $9B:

18 games, 34 teams in the league (one expansion team in Los Angeles, to go in the NFC West, the other in San Antonio, to go in the NFC East to give Dallas a natural geographical rival; then move the Seahawks back to the AFC West, which Paul Allen never wanted to leave to begin with), and 14 teams in the playoffs (by adding one more playoff berth in each conference, leaving only the 1 seed with a bye and thus getting rid of the riduculous situation you have now under which the difference between being a 2 seed and a 3 seed is greater than the difference between being a 1 seed and a 2 seed because the 1 and 2 seeds get both a first-round bye and home field in the second round while the 3 seed gets neither).

Instead of this zero-sum crap about who gets what share of the pie, grow the pie, for cryin’ out loud.

]]>By: jpmelonhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1060388
Wed, 11 May 2011 06:56:22 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1060388If I owned a team and a bunch of goons that I pay millions of dollars to for playing a game 16 times a year asked for more, I’d shut the thing down to prove a point too.
]]>By: airraid77http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1059248
Tue, 10 May 2011 11:23:28 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1059248a billionaire is a billionaire, He found ways to make a billion dollars. Which the libs cant stand.
Nineroutsider, you keep you are not taking taking sides yet you keep taking head shots at the owners….are you related to m-flo?
The owners should be praised not demonized.
]]>By: nineroutsiderhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1059165
Tue, 10 May 2011 04:41:46 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1059165@locutus

“Idiots commenting here will never be billionaires so the next best thing they (or their offspring) can hope for is to be a flash in the pan athlete to cash in.”
———————————————————

Neither will you though. That is the major problem I have with you pro-owner guys that own a blue collar service company…you keeping putting yourselves in the shoes of billionaires as if their industry is similar to yours.

It’s funny…keep doing it. Especially whoever it was that listed the keystone qualities of billionaires so eloquently and included ‘grudge holding’; you don’t happen, by chance of course, to see reflections of yourself in these qualities? Keep showing the digital world just how successful you are…its makes the lockout far more interesting.

Scanning the threads, I noticed you both waving to get my attention. That’s sweet, and I’m sorry to disappoint you. PalinforPresident, I can’t offer a legal opinion since I’m not an attorney. But as a one-time employment attorney, Mike has done a terrific job breaking down these complete issues. And Rachael, I do apologize that my posts are over your head. Perhaps you can take that up with your principal. Your school administration may be able to assign you to some remedial courses before you’re held back yet again.

As for the topic at hand, I’d rather not waste my ire and hysteria on rumors. I’ll just wait and see …

]]>By: locutushttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058778
Mon, 09 May 2011 20:19:32 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058778Question for all the people making arguments in favor of the owners:

Speaking for myself, and I would venture to guess most that are pro owners, I am an owner of a company. I know what it takes to run one successfully and what employees do. During our history, there was a point where a segment of our employees had us over the barrel regarding their talents. Meaning they did jobs well and there were few in the free market to take their place so we had to swallow our pride and pay them whatever they asked for. Now, that is not the case and we can be more discriminating and they know this as well.

One thing we would never do is just keep paying to the point of having no profitability. I would be the most vocal against the players if I were an NFL owner. They need to know they can go to hell by use strong arm tactics without any risk.

Regarding your stupid question however; it only makes sense idiots like you think that anyone that is pro owner is a shill. It only solidifies the mentality that has engulfed the US and that is envy of anyone successful. Idiots commenting here will never be billionaires so the next best thing they (or their offspring) can hope for is to be a flash in the pan athlete to cash in. Pretty damn sad when you can’t see what is the correct course of action for not only the people who created the game but the game itself.

]]>By: ebenezergrymmhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058761
Mon, 09 May 2011 20:13:26 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058761100% on the owners side. The players winning does nothing for the fans, they won’t spend their money to upgrade your stadium experience, they won’t spend money on advertising or expansion, they’ll spend their money on new rims and Escalades.

I also like the irony of shutting down the NFL and how it parallels decertifying the union. How’s it feel, DeMoron Smith?

But what I really want to know is if when the league reforms and all contracts have to be redone, will 2K Sports get to make a new (insert name of new football league here) game? If so then

FANS WIN! FANS WIN!

]]>By: notacelticsfanhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058708
Mon, 09 May 2011 19:31:24 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058708Question for all the people making arguments in favor of the owners: How much are you getting paid to troll sites and leave those comments, and are the Owners still hiring?

Thank you in advance.

]]>By: shark298http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058499
Mon, 09 May 2011 16:21:24 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058499The funny thing is no matter how severe the stoppage as soon as they all snap their fingers and say it’s time for football, there will be 70,000 idiots in the stands forking over their hard earned mone
]]>By: truthserum4uhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058436
Mon, 09 May 2011 15:40:05 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058436iamtalkingsolistenandlearn has covered much of what I was going to say, but I’ll chime in anyways.

For those of you thinking a new league, or the existing UFL, can or will swoop in and take the place of the NFL are living a pipe dream. There are several reasons why.

It takes years for a new league to establish owners, infrastructure and a business plan. The players would be giving up years of what is already a short career waiting for it to get started.

Any existing or new league would need owners with incredibly deep pockets if they were to try and match the player’s current salaries; which would be highly unlikely. It’s also important to note wealthy owners on it’s own does not insure business success. The USFL had wealthy owners like Donald Trump and they still went belly-up.

They would need incredibly wealthy owners because they would not be receiving huge TV contracts from the networks or cable, like some of you seem to think. The television networks aren’t currently handing over the big money to the NFL because the league has superstars playing in it; the league has always had superstars. It’s not because the game is wildly popular. It’s because the NFL has spent decades building a track record with solid and reliable management producing a proven commodity that the networks know is sustainable. The networks/cable won’t fork out nearly that kind of money to a start-up league or even the existing UFL without a much longer history than what they currently possess. This means the players would be settling for far less than they would with the last owners offer.

The other statement I see posted so often is “the players are the game” or “the players are the product”. This just isn’t true. The GAME is the game. The GAME is the product. If this isn’t true, how did the NFL survive (and grow & thrive) when players like Montana, Elway, Payton, Rice, R White, and so many of the greatest to play the game retired? How will it go on without Manning, Brady, R Lewis and many others? Besides, the game is massively popular with people who could care less about the name on the back of the jersey – gamblers and fantasy leaguges.

The bottom line is both sides need each other and need to acknowledge the value of the other. Whether you’re on the side of the owners or the players, you should be copying the following statement from rushbacker and emailing it to both sides.

“Sadly, it now seems more about ego than anything else, even money. If both sides are determined to “win” at all costs, they should both be ready to pay the ultimate cost– which in this case is diminishing the popularity and profitability of the game.

You morons have the throat of the proverbial golden goose gripped tightly in your mitts– go ahead, keep squeezing.”

]]>By: dietrich43http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058343
Mon, 09 May 2011 14:46:48 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058343The Owners run 32 businesses. I’m sure they’ve figured out the cost to shutdown and lose a season, and they’re evaluating that against a bad deal with labor. Why is the possibility of a complete shutdown such a surprise?
]]>By: vahawkerhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058284
Mon, 09 May 2011 14:03:43 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058284So Kidder…please point to the part in the owner’s proposal(that the players didn’t even bother reading) where the owners were CUTTING player’s pay. Unless you want to argue that a rookie cap cuts a rookie’s pay, but can you can cut the pay of someone you have never had a contract with?
]]>By: pigeonpeahttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058277
Mon, 09 May 2011 14:01:15 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058277Last February, I watched my favourite team win the Lombardi for the fourth time and was really looking forward to see if they could repeat this season. After this mess, I have lost all interest. I didn’t look (nor care) who the Packers drafted, and instead booked the day off to take the girlfriend to see the Toronto Argonauts home opener. Who knows? Without the NFL in 2011, maybe I may find the CFL to be just as exciting – especially when all those unemployed NFL players come knocking on the CFL’s door for a job. With only 8 teams in the league, the NFL could end up with NFL superstars at every position!
]]>By: sfsaintsfanhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058268
Mon, 09 May 2011 13:55:21 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058268“drumzan says: May 8, 2011 10:50 PM

Perfect time for the Buffalo Bills to join the CFL.”

Where they would finish the season with a record of 3-6…..

]]>By: pksivhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058261
Mon, 09 May 2011 13:49:39 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058261For all of those saying that these players can play in the UFL here’s what those guys got paid last season –

“For the 2010 UFL season, a player making a UFL team’s roster will earn a salary of $50,000 over a period of eight weeks. And that is pretty much non-negotiable. ”

Other than UDFA’s, do you really think any of the NFL stars are going to risk serious injury for $50K ?

The NFL should shut down, re-organize as a single Corporate entity with 32 internal divisions that all operate under a single ruling body. They wouldn’t even need a CBA with the players. The league could dictate all the terms. The players can choose to play or not to play and there could be no collusion because it’s all one company.

]]>By: yzguy431http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058208
Mon, 09 May 2011 12:55:56 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058208does anyone really think that ‘the fans’ will stay away from the game? they can take 2 years off, and ‘the fans’ will come roaring back.
]]>By: raven4life21http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058202
Mon, 09 May 2011 12:47:32 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058202If this happens, without football, I am fully convinced the world is going to end and the 2012 armageddon theory is true… and i say as politely as i can F-O-R-G-E-T YOUUUUUU!
]]>By: hank10http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058174
Mon, 09 May 2011 11:43:37 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058174Memo to Owners and Players:

You all can go straight to Hell. Do not pass Go. Do not collect your $9,000,000,000.00.

That is all.

]]>By: lawyermalloyhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058167
Mon, 09 May 2011 11:20:47 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058167While I don’t believe the owners have the balls to shut down, to do so MAY be the choice that actually resolves this mess.
As soon as the players lose several checks a settlement of ALL open issues will commence.
This strategy would be a lot quicker than allowing this mess to grind through the court system.
]]>By: anthonyfromstatenislandhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058164
Mon, 09 May 2011 10:48:27 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058164If the union can go out of business, why can’t the owners?

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

And I say go for it, owners!

]]>By: warhorse007http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058154
Mon, 09 May 2011 06:38:08 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058154BTW, for anyone who brings the argument of the violence and threat of injury to the table, just remember: THEY DONT HAVE TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

If they dont want to risk injury, dont play. Hello?

NASCAR drivers……anyone stoppin you from getting out of an automobile and walking away?

Well, dont let this little piece of news pass you by, cause it may just be the tip of the iceburg.

The initial rumors of a complete NFL shutdown if the courts order a lifting of the lockout are slowly swirling.

Cant say as I blame the owners. Nobody wants someone else telling them what to do in their own business, and if it were me, and I dont have the freedom to decide what happens, then I may as well shut my doors. I would never let a group of people that I employ dictate to me how things should be, simply because my business is lucrative.

That would include the union they scam under.

The players are making more money then they ever have before, and the money is SPREAD across the entire spectrum of players. The elite still take the biggest cut of the pie, but players that are further down build equity through their years. Can there be better retirement? Yes. Better medical? Yes.

But in the end, I believe in the NFL, its too violent a game to be taking money from those lower on the tier and giving it to those higher on the tier.

The NFL owners of teams that are struggling to stay afloat have a right to want to renegotiate. The owners had, and have excercised, their right to opt out of the current agreement.

They no longer wish to work under that agreement, and its their right.

The players also have a right to quit, and retire from the NFL and go somewhere else and find work……….McDonalds?

Perhaps they ought to look into being a union rep, I hear they take home quite a bit of money, and have GREAT death benefits for their family members.

Get rid of these players, and sign some new ones if they dont want to play in the NFL. The NFL isnt asking them individually to take pay cuts, and they will CONTINUE to make more and more money into the end of their careers.

If they dont, goodbye, and bring in the players of the future, the stars of the future, and the game of the future.

Start with this rookie class, and tell them if they want to play, today is the day.

The only other alternative is for the 32 NFL owners to merge into a single entity, with limited parnterships and structures that allow for individual handling of their teams, and everyone knows that wont happen……theyre billionaires afterall.

D. Smith needs to take his union busting derby, put it on his head, face the north and keep on walking till he hits water.

I love my NFL team. And if that aint the players we have today, then goodbye, and bring in those who want to represent. I love football, even on its most basic level.
If the competition is level, I love it!!!

]]>By: bluetalonzhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058147
Mon, 09 May 2011 05:49:46 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058147Kidder95, it’s really hard to tell if you think everyone is really that stupid, or if you are just pretending to be that stupid.

It would take a truly stupid player with a truly stupid agent to sign a contract with a start-up league with no out-clause.

It would take incredibly stupid owners and managers in a start-up league to think such a start-up league would draw the kinds of crowds that require venues like Qwest, and that lack the imagination to work around potential scheduling problems.

It takes a pretty stupid person to think that the NFL is the only option for people who want to play football professionally. UFL, AFL, CFL, are all viable alternatives for players who want to play and get paid for it. (It belies defining the NFL as a monopoly.)

And it takes a pretty stupid person to write everything you wrote in the manner you wrote it (it takes a pretty flexible lexicon as well), as if there were no alternatives to the scenarios you posited.

]]>By: jebsta16http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058142
Mon, 09 May 2011 05:27:56 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058142I hope the owners do this. I don’t see anything good coming from giving in to the players. They have no right to be demanding so much money when they invest 0 % back. I would love the players association to get a nice reality check because if they don’t play football for the apparent bread crumbs they are making now I sure could use some help in my department where they will be making 1/100000 of what they are used to making and they will have to live a lifestyle of living within your means and pay check to pay check. I am so sick of the players demands. The owners gave you a more then fair deal and you turned it down. You made a huge mistake and now are going to get raped on the next deal and then you will beg the owners for the original deal back. Time to fire De smith for misleading you.
]]>By: stevecmhhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058136
Mon, 09 May 2011 05:01:51 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058136It’s amusing to read that if the players are successful in negotiations, it will actually benefit Jerry Jones and a few other rich owners who will gleefully turn the NFL into MLB. If you follow this theory to its logical conclusion, you have to assume that those owners are hoping for the players’ success if not actually secretly colluding with them. Those players deserve an Oscar for acting so upset when Jones “stormed out of the negotiations” last month!

On a more serious note, the owners may bluff about a shutdown but they are essentially doing that now with the lockout. If the lockout were to continue into the season, the owners would be in a very similar financial situation, wouldn’t they? They would probably be able to reduce their fixed expenses by a formal shutdown but would also likely incur certain one-time charges for shutting down.

The owners cannot afford to actually shut down the league, nor can they afford to continue the lockout into the season, because most have financial obligations they would not be able to meet without their 2011 revenue. It’s possible they would be able renegotiate those obligations but that would be subject to their individual situations and likely up to their creditors. While some owners have outside business interests that could help them meet their football-related obligations, all of the owners are not in that position.

And let’s not forget the penalties they will likely incur from their violation of the last CBA. That damages hearing will start in Judge David Doty’s courtroom in a couple of weeks. While I’m sure the owners would appeal an unfavorable decision, they may have to post a very sizable financial bond in order to file the appeal.

Of course, the players have financial pressures on their side ALSO. Those pressures are not as easy to summarize because there are so many players with unique circumstances. There are only 32 owners who receive equal league revenue plus individual team revenue. I suspect the players’ situations are much more varied than the owners because of the wider disparities in their incomes. For this reason, it will probably be more difficult for the players to stay united compared to the owners. That’s what the owners are banking on, I think. Of course, most of the players are not used to being paid until the first game of the season. The only players likely to experience financial pressure before the season are those expecting off-season bonuses.

This process continues to be a protracted, high stakes ‘game of chicken’ with the added dimension of external factors such as the lawsuits in Minnesota and St. Louis, the owners’ NLRB complaint, the owners’ major business partners, etc. Both sides are taking a big chance gambling with the success of the NFL. If the season is lost, there are no guarantees that the NFL will return to its prior level of success. Both sides are taking big chances with a $9 billion ‘golden goose’.

This article is about the NFL closing its doors. The lockout is covered by Brady et al and the court will decide what happens. If the 8th Circuit keep the lockout in place while deciding the case, we will find out then what the liabilities are when the case is fully adjudicated.

None of the things you say will be irrepaable harm has to come if the league is disbanded. Teams are still liable for their contracts if they close their doors. But since players contracts aren’t guaranteed, it doesn’t matter. Also, if the Seahawks close their doors, they are still liable for the terms of the contract. Don’tyou think Paul Allen knows that. He can pay and if the team can’t pay, the team can file for bankruptcy relief. If he pays, he can keep a team from the new league off of that field.

As for the free market, I am not necessarily against it. However, you do need to be aware that there will unintended consequences. It may or may not be fun.

]]>By: biisthttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/08/rumors-fly-of-a-complete-nfl-shutdown/#comment-1058128
Mon, 09 May 2011 04:30:48 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=129691#comment-1058128Nuclear option out-come: Players win and Tom Brady, et. al. win antitrust. End of NFL. The irony is they win the battle but lose the league and have a smaller pie to apply their 60% revenue “winnings” against.
Tom Brady will be the icon of the end of the league. The rings on his finger will be worthless as the last superbowl will have been played and the league becomes a MLS like shadow of its former self. Small market teams fold for lack of revenue sharing; their are fewer teams for from which players can get hired. And former players with injuries get a smaller or no check as league cannot afford extra contributions.

Players ought to be careful what they wish for…they may just get it after all.