Ivo's highly critical - even ad hominem! (why?) - of Fioramonti's article. I read it (The Conversation, 28/5) and didn't follow it all the way, but have a lot of sympathy with his call for social, incl economic, and environmental sustainability. But I think Ivo, in his somewhat reductionist view of the political economic world, may be missing, or unconcerned about, Fioramonti's basic concern about externalities - unintended consequences - to growth, particularly at the cost to the environment, natural resources and those who are economically excluded. I commented: "In a closed system [eg world] wealth (GDP) cannot increase except at the expense of other members of those individual communities [and environment]. But [it] can and does increase with innovation – the exploitation of human, capital, social and/or natural resources." Innovation can mitigate many of the negatives of growth provided it does not create other externalities. Ivo is wrong, growth is often zero-sum.