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              Average ladies ?
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                     Hello guys, just a simple question : why most of all games contains characters with "perfect/unrealistic" bodies ?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I've been playing many games, I'm a kind of old school boi, with hair and curves appreciation. But today, I cannot find a game that offers some average bodies like most of our population : normal penis size, some fat, some hair or bush, freakles, tanlines... Just the representation of everyone. I'm a bit tired of seeing each new game the same type of woman : big tits and ass, few or no pubic hair and thin waist...
                     <br/>
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                     So guys, with a good scenario, could a story with every size and type bodies interest you ?
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                     PS : I am not a feminist or pro-positivbody supporter. Just an average Joe.
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                     I generally always prefer more realistic proportions for characters that are supposed to be normal adult humans. I've long since tired of the over-inflated balloon breasts that so many inexplicably love. Never saw the appeal in monster cocks either. Just seems like having one would be a real hassle - not very useful since it wouldn't fit in most holes, bound to scare off more girls than it brings in, and likely to cause you brain damage from having too much of your blood going to your penis, lol. XD
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                     I was bored with it too, one of the things that inspired me to make a game. No fat characters (yet) but I do have a mature woman who looks her age, girls with big noses, and someone with a skin affliction. It might turn some people off, but I managed to find a few fans.
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                     Yup, absolutely. First of all I think average/ugly people should be more represented in games and secondly, beauty is kind of diminished when it becomes
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                     . Especially in a female protag corruption/life sim, I would prefer an average or even homely character. The appeal of these games is largely psychological to me, so an MC that is more relatable would be more immersive than a MC with a supermodel face and body.
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                     For male protag games, I just hate it when MC has a huge dick - which is practically every single game - and every sex partner comments on it. Completely immersion-killing. And you know what, in a game where you rely on some magical doohickey to get it on with characters that wouldn't look at you otherwise, you really don't need MC to be some stud with an Adonis face, Olympian body, donkey dick and sociopath-level manipulation skills. It kind of invalidates the premise if you ask me. Like, why the hell do you even need your dead great-grandfather's magical orb if you have all that?
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                     Im on board here, what also mostly puts me off is when characters have all oversized breasts, which also all are exactly the same. Just copy-pasted the breasts, so you get huge tits and they even all look exactly the same.
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                     I get it, people like big breasts, and I do so as well, but even then im thinking, throw in something different, some characters with smaller breasts to accentuate the big breasts AND also give people that like them smaller something. Because I like to look at all of them, no matter the size. And it also opens up some opportunities of (friendly) boob envy, or the small breasted character having the best butt to compensate.
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                     And about the monster cocks everywhere, well mostly the same there, its just ridiculous most of the time.
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                     Thats of course a personal thing, which is probably also the reason I dont really watch professional porn anymore.
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                     The boys in my comics has two average size manhoods and one small one. I'm not a fan of monster cocks in adult games, neither in porn and for all i know, hung-men in real life are extremely abrasive and are mostly douchebags.
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                     The only 3d game I play with realistic proportions are Dual Family and Summertime Saga. MC in SS maybe hung but at least it aint monstrous.
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                     I think the game in my signature is very close to what you want (except a deep story) and you can't believe how many people requested from the dev a huge/gigantic dick. But dev still resisting to this kind of requests and probably won't give up.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     As an example there is an abandoned game (Lewis Mint's Summer of Love) which has regular looking (some says ugly, but I don't agree) chicks and it was bashed to death because of this. It was a very promising game, sigh...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Now there's an idiotic trend which I will never understand and also which destroys quality games/VNs for me:
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - Bowling sized and shaped boobs which can crash a man's head with little effort or can be bullet proof.
                     <br/>
                     - Asses looks like pregnant with alien creatures or asses have their own asses (Parental Love and some other games which I don't remember their names)
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                     - Enormous dicks which can create a wormhole while accidentally poking the space.
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                     I don't know if we should blame the Kardashian freaks or the implant boosted pornstars or money hungry evil plastic surgeons brainwashing people and causing this trend...
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                     I always find it funny in porn when an actor has such a long dick that he has to fuck the poor girl from a distance and can't go all in.
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                     For girls some realistic proportions would be fantastic and wish it was used more.
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                     Aside from that the rubber tits, plastic butts and baseball bat dicks are all a turnoff for me, especially since it's used ad nauseam, what cringes me most about it is the writing that often follows. First meetings start with a grown man thinking "DEM HUGE TITS! DAT ASS! I'll fuck this girl for sure!"... what are you, 14 or something?
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                     I'm really glad to hear you guys. If I summaries a bit, most of you think oversized proportions for men and women, like characters that are turning in few dial lines in che'p sl'ut are killing the simulation.
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                     I also hear the fact that Dev are fighting to keep some humans props.
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                     For several months, I'm following different threads about development and rendering. And I really want to jump in gaming simulation... As I told you earlier, with a deep and complex story, applied to humans (props, behaviour, mind evolution, reality) characters.
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                        Yup, absolutely. First of all I think average/ugly people should be more represented in games and secondly, beauty is kind of diminished when it becomes
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                         the norm
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                        . Especially in a female protag corruption/life sim, I would prefer an average or even homely character. The appeal of these games is largely psychological to me, so an MC that is more relatable would be more immersive than a MC with a supermodel face and body.
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                     You forgot about precious zits. There is nothing more fappable than a prickly heated flat ass, or white-headed face, or, maybe, stretch marks over the body. If we're talking about realism we cannot just avoid such topics as human's ugliness, and sexiness of pus. Y'know, gonorrhea is badly represented in those games as well.
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                        You forgot about precious zits. There is nothing more fappable than a prickly heated flat ass, or white-headed face, or, maybe, stretch marks over the body. If we're talking about realism we cannot just avoid such topics as human's ugliness, and sexiness of pus. Y'know, gonorrhea is badly represented in those games as well.
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                     It's a question of preferences. Yes, I support the addition of these things that remind the player the simulation he plays is near reality.
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                     What's the reward, to unzip your trousers and the woman who talked with you for two minutes, suck you straight ? Instead of having several talks, missed opportunities and then, finally, a reward.
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                     Like in real life. A girl is a bit nerdy, but she's a co'ck massage expert. This girl with flat chest has a phat ass and love anal.... So and so....
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                        You forgot about precious zits. There is nothing more fappable than a prickly heated flat ass, or white-headed face, or, maybe, stretch marks over the body. If we're talking about realism we cannot just avoid such topics as human's ugliness, and sexiness of pus. Y'know, gonorrhea is badly represented in those games as well.
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                     I love how your idea of someone who isn't a supermodel is just someone who has zits, a flat ass, stretch marks, and gonorrhea.
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                        I was bored with it too, one of the things that inspired me to make a game. No fat characters (yet) but I do have a mature woman who looks her age, girls with big noses, and someone with a skin affliction. It might turn some people off, but I managed to find a few fans.
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                     In this time where every game is 95% identical to every other game, standing out is probably not the worst idea that could be implemented tbh.
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                    Dont ever argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
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                        I love how your idea of someone who isn't a supermodel is just someone who has zits, a flat ass, stretch marks, and gonorrhea.
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                     I mean, when they cry about realism, usually they don't even know what they're asking for.
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                     And yes, in reality, when any of these supermodels washes her makeup down you'll see... Whoops. Zits, stretches, baldness and much more things. Welcome in reality.
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                        What's the reward, to unzip your trousers and the woman who talked with you for two minutes, suck you straight ? Instead of having several talks, missed opportunities and then, finally, a reward.
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                     This is a common problem in western games. Roleplay is seen as something bad. "Just click forward and fap", because it's not like "time-wasters" where you dive in your character's shoes. I agree here. It's sad.
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                     If you need more realism - try reality. They say it's way better than any simulation.
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                     I think the thing is that people don't want to see reality...personally, I am primarily interested in the fantastic possibilities of drawings and 3D-with ordinary real people I have enough communication in my life
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                        I mean, when they cry about realism, usually they don't even know what they're asking for.
                        <br/>
                        And yes, in reality, when any of these supermodels washes her makeup down you'll see... Whoops. Zits, stretches, baldness and much more things. Welcome in reality.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        This is a common problem in western games. Roleplay is seen as something bad. "Just click forward and fap", because it's not like "time-wasters" where you dive in your character's shoes. I agree here. It's sad.
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                        If you need more realism - try reality. They say it's way better than any simulation.
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                     But in reality, guys have shitty attitudes like yours
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                     So you're saying that if we don't want one extreme, we have to settle for another extreme?
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                     Come on man, you can't be that dense.. :noexpression:
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                        So you're saying that if we don't want one extreme, we have to settle for another extreme?
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                        Come on man, you can't be that dense.. :noexpression:
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                     Nope. Most of my previous posts in this thread were full of sarcasm. I'm completely OK with any kind of fetishes, even extreme ones. I'm against adepts of classical arts, that taboo even the smallest fantasy in the piece. They need only realism as it is.
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                        I mean, when they cry about realism, usually they don't even know what they're asking for.
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                     Why wouldn't they? Even the most reclusive hikikomori may have had family members growing up, that they regularly got to see before makeup, shaving, showering, skin care and all that jazz. I imagine not many people get their idea of normality exclusively from entertainment media.
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                     Average people of awkward dimensions in all the wrong places will help those taking an MC as a representation of themselves subconsciously lower their expectations in reality.
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                     We tend to emulate what we see and porn can sometimes give us the wrong idea of what we expect from our partners or of what we think they expect of us.
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                    Dear devs, please remember, we're all ungrateful fucks who fap and run at heart...
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                        I mean, when they cry about realism, usually they don't even know what they're asking for.
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                     I think what most are talking about here is just having things in the realm of realistic possibilities. The average breast sizes seen in many games around here are way larger than what even most plastic surgeons would be willing to pump breasts sizes up to because of ethical and health concerns, causing many of the most obsessed body mod freaks to head to sketchy overseas doctors who'll fulfill just about any dumb shit request as long as they're getting paid.
                     <br/>
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                     That and teenage boys with dicks that would put John Holmes to shame. And he had one of the all-time biggest dicks in the porn industry coming in at around 13 1/2 inches in length based on the most reliable sources. By many porn actress accounts who worked with him, it was so big that he couldn't even get it fully erect because he just couldn't get enough blood into it, leaving it fairly soft even when he was running at full throttle in their scenes.
                     <br/>
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                     Outside of the obese, it is fairly rare to see natural breasts much larger than DD, and even that is pretty uncommon. Average dicks are 5-6" and pretty rarely getting over about 8-9" (even most porn stars are in the 7-9" range). There are of course exceptions, but even those lose their value when devs foolishly make the extraordinary the new ordinary. I think it mostly comes down to inexperience and a bit of ignorance about human anatomy.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In a lot of ways, the current era of porn games reminds me a lot of the old fad of Tijuana bibles, those little palm sized amateur comics that were popular in the early-to-mid 1900s. They were crudely drawn, had unrealistic story lines littered with plot holes, tons of parodies, and lots of exaggerated and poorly formed anatomy. It was a bit of a wild west situation where they were figuring things out as they went and weren't very concerned with quality or realism, but they filled a niche and people loved them. They however mostly started to fall to the wayside in the '50s and '60s when other higher quality porn options started becoming readily available, like men's magazines, porn theaters, etc and were all but gone by the '80s when VCRs became readily available.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Basically as better alternatives show up, the easy low quality stuff starts to lose out and those who make it either catch up to the times or they are left behind and get increasingly marginalized by the market shifts. As more devs and artists hone their craft and push the boundaries, and subsequently people's expectations, we will see more demand for realistic anatomy. There will always be a niche for the extremes, but they are way over represented at the moment and a sizable portions of the fan base are getting tired of the lack of variety.
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                     Stories, entertainment, culture is often filled with the best ideals we can envision, whether that's the ideal bodytype for a mate or the ideal setting to be a hero or other ideals.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The mastery of an art isn't just learning to shape the marble exactly as you dreamt it should be; it's also having the right dream that speaks to other on a deep level.
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                     And when it comes to porn, it's nice if it helps people to get off.
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                     I think what you're encountering is people who have a different dream of the ideal or are lacking in their ability to create it as they envision it, resulting in comically out of proportion figures. It isn't easy or quick to get good at these crafts.
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                     Of course Alex Vance is regarded as one of the sexiest mainstream-game female characters. The reason is, if I'm correct in my musing, that someone that feels real is preferable to someone that is (supposedly) ideal. And if we are to take Jung's ventures into the subconscious serious, we don't all have the same imprint of ideals we desire either.
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                     The problem is, I think more difficult than we could ever solve, but we do our best by continually learning and making the new.
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                     Though I'm generally not fan of average people in games, in this case I think, it could maybe work. Most women you meet in real life are not perfect, but they are not hidiously ugly either. Especially when it comes to the various family games, I think the moms should actually look older than their offspring INSTEAD of (NOT in addition to) being taller and having boobs the size of small planets. Don't get me wrong, I like big boobs, but only within the possibilities of human genetics and Earth's gravity.
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                     What I certainly don't like though, is average people with average sexual experiences in porn games. Joe MacTrivial going to a bar, buying Jane O'Average a drink and than fucking her is just boring, not arousing in any way. Unless Joe shortly after that discovers that Jane is the dominatrix who made his mom her sex slave or a succubus capable of teaching him mind control spells or the queen of an alien race assimilating human DNA by having sex with him...
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                     Most likely the reason you only see the "perfect" types in these games has to do with societal norms or mainstream thinking. Most of the devs create the character with what they believe will attract the highest amount of people to their game. For the longest time sexy females were thin to average size with larger breasts and asses. As for the males having a penis larger than most horses in these games, I believe it has to do with the immature thinking that the bigger the better. That's just my opinion or thought process, I could be wrong. I'm all for immersion into these games but if its too close to reality it wouldn't be worth playing. Why play a game about something I can do anyway?
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                     I wouldn't ask for average, but something a little more realistic would be refreshing.
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                     I totally agree with you guys, especially with Kryos statement "
                     <br/>
                     I wouldn't ask for average, but something a little more realistic would be refreshing."
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     We can develop something near reality, but with this fantasy and variety of bodies that conveys to the MC an interested in particular for each character encountered.
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                     To quote Polonius from Hamlet, "This above all: to thine own boner be true."
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Let me unpack: make whatever the fuck you want to make.  Don't ask for permission.  Don't ask if 'somebody' might like what gets you off.  Somebody out there fucking does!  For pretty much anything!  Want to make a game about a not-traditionally-attractive guy dating a bunch of A-cup ladies with skin conditions?  Do it.  Want to make an extremely detailed dating sim where the end goal is docking with dudes?  Somebody out there wants that, especially because nobody (to my knowledge) has fucking done it before.  Want to make a sex romp based in the old folks' home of a leper colony?  Do that.  You could make a game where a fat kid goes to school with a bunch of hot popular ladies whose sole goal is to crush his nuts and each nut-crushing scene is actually the end-goal of a particular sequence.  And yes, if what you really want to make is a hardcore incest game with ladies with big tits and a traditionally attractive male protagonist and said related ladies getting incest pregnant, you can do that too.  That last one is probably still the one I'd most like to play, by the way, and I don't really give a shit whether other people are tired of it or not.  That kinda shit is exactly what I'm
                     <i>
                      always
                     </i>
                     looking for.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     So yeah.  Stop worrying about whether somebody might like 'something different.'  Instead, make whatever you want to make, but do it well.  Put in the time and effort, plan things, make sure it looks good (to your eye, not just the eye of your imagined player/customer), spellcheck that bitch, have at least a couple people playtest it, and make damn sure that it's something you'd be happy to continue to work on even if the initial response isn't half of the world's porn-game-playing population handing you their money and the other half dying from hypoxia due to all the blood pooling forever in their dicks.
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                    Trying to censor fiction means you are afraid of something that is by definition imaginary.
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                     I agree with you on the tits issue.
                     <br/>
                     And I can answer the dick one.
                     <br/>
                     Because longer, not necessarily thicker dicks, are easier to work with.
                     <br/>
                     It creates more space between the characters, and gives you an easier time with making poses.
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                     I agree with you if it's from a creators perspective, do whatever the fuck you want. But other then creators, there are way more consumers and we all like to voice our opinions, hoping for something better to be made. Heck, some creators might even listen to suggestions, or start researching some normal anatomy, that'd be neat.
                     <br/>
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                     It's like tv programs these days. I used to enjoy channels like Discovery, History and animal planet for the interesting documentaries about science and space and the likes. These days there's nothing but fat blokes with tattoos and dirty beards fixing cars, digging up gold or buying and selling crap in a fake and staged setting. When I switch channels I get a dose of pregnant teenage girls, 300lb fatasses and commercials.
                     <br/>
                     Yeah someone probably took pride in making that crap, but the only people consuming it is a single group of easily entertained people with low standards. Nothing wrong with it, but I don't count myself under it.
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                     Now I'm not complaining that it exists, the producers probably have a blast making it and make a decent living out of it, but when my source of entertainment goes on tv from once a day to once a month at best and the crap that we get served is the only thing we can get, I'll start mining for :test3:
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                     Same goes for these Miss Chernobyl looking ladies in porn games with proportions that only should make an oncologist interested. If that's 90% of the choice for out entertainment, it's won't be a surprise it will raise some brows.
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                     I don't watch TV anymore.
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                        I've been playing many games, I'm a kind of old school boi, with hair and curves appreciation. But today, I cannot find a game that offers some average bodies like most of our population : normal penis size, some fat, some hair or bush, freakles, tanlines...
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                     Interesting you say that because I'm also the same way. The girl in my avatar (amy) is from my game. She has freckles, tan lines, some sag in the bags, stretch marks and a slight belly pudge.
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                     She is still unrealistically more attractive with a better body than the average population because it seems like the majority here aren't looking for accurate representation of women in games. It is a fantasy setting afterall.
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