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   Computer system recommendations | F95zone
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              Computer system recommendations
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                     I've been working on my own game, and have realized my system won't handle the graphics.  I'm looking at a few systems and thought it would be smart to ask the people who work with programs like DAZ3D and Unity just how much power I need.
                     <br/>
                     Right now I have a core 2 Duo, 4 Gigs of RAM, an onboard GPU, and 2  X external 1 TB USB HDD's.
                     <br/>
                     The system I'm looking at has an Intel Core i7, 16 Gigs of RAM, an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060, a 1 TB internal HDD, and a 120 Gig solid state drive. The 2 X 1TB external HHD's will plug into the new system, so I'll have a total of 3 X 1 TB HDD's, 1 internal and 2 external. This system will be on sale soon, and it's a really big investment for me. If I'm going to spend this kind of $$$ I wanna make sure it'll handle everything I throw at it.
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                     Will this do the trick, or do I need something more powerful?
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                     That should be fine! I have a GTX 1050 card (and a PSU that can handle it), 32GB Ram. My processor is AMD A4-3420 APU with Radeon (no idea what it means, but it's at least 5 years old), and everything I have on computer is the way I bought it. You can check out my post history to see the images I can render with it.
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                     First of all there are different kinds of i7 CPU's depending on the generation and the model if you can give the model number (its written next to the CPU like I7 2600 this one is a second gen if the number was 3xxx and somthing it would be third gen and if it has a K next to number it would be better like I7 7700K ) I can give you more detail, but all of them are way better and  I mean way way better then your core 2 duo, the graphic card is quite good the 1060 comes with two models a 3gb and a 6gb they are both perfect for gaming at 1080p and decent at 4K gaming the 6gb would be better of course not only for the extra 3gb but there are the same card but they both quite good high en gpu's and 16gb is more then enough ram .
                     <br/>
                     overall yeah this PC unless it has an old first gen I7 which I doubt would be more then able to handle anything you through at it .
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                     Thanks for the feedback. I used to keep up with this stuff, but got sidetracked for a few years!
                     <br/>
                     It might be easier if I give you the link directly to the computer. It's listed on Best Buy, and it went on sale since I first made this post!
                     <br/>
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.bestbuy.com/site/ibuypower-desktop-intel-core-i7-16gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-1tb-hard-drive-120gb-solid-state-drive-gray-black/6180825.p?skuId=6180825" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      https://www.bestbuy.com/site/ibuypo...tate-drive-gray-black/6180825.p?skuId=6180825
                     </a>
                     <br/>
                     Processor:
                     <br/>
                     8th Gen Intel Core i7-8700
                     <br/>
                     Graphics:
                     <br/>
                     NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 with 3GB dedicated video memory
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     This system comes with 16 GB RAM. Is that really enough? Memory's a heck of a lot cheaper per Gig than it was a few years ago, and when Best Buy knocked almost $300 off the price, I can probably upgrade the ram if I really need to.
                     <br/>
                     From what I've read above though, I might be better suited by upgrading the video card to 6 GB. These are ready-to-go systems and I don't know how their upgrading policy works. I've always bought components individually and upgraded at home. It'd cost a LOT MORE to try and build a comparable system myself though.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="PMNL · Jun 25, 2018 at 1:13 AM" data-lb-id="post-858020">
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                     If it were up to me I'd rather go with a custom build system and swap out that 3GB GTX 1060 for either the 6GB version, or even a 1070 (TI) /1080 (TI) if your budget allows it.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     DAZ allows GPU rendering only if the entire scene fits into your cards VRAM, meaning if you your scene ends up taking 3.1 GB of VRAM while you only have 3, the entire thing will be rendered by the CPU. Now both CPU and GPU rendering will eventually produce the exact same image, but a GPU rendered image will be done
                     <b>
                      much
                     </b>
                     faster (e.g. 3 - 5 minutes instead of 30 - 40 depending on what's in the scene).
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     A couple of months ago I started fiddling around with DAZ myself on my 2GB GTX 965M equipped laptop, and anything more than a single character (not even fully clothed &amp; dressed) will cause DAZ to drop back to CPU rendering.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     To illustrate the above, I'm currently rendering what I consider to be a fairly basic scene (on said laptop):
                     <br/>
                     <ul>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       1 Character (G3F);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       2 Pieces of clothing (dress + shoes);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       1 Type of hair;
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       1 Room:
                       <ul>
                        <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                         4 Walls;
                        </li>
                        <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                         1 Floor;
                        </li>
                        <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                         1 Ceiling;
                        </li>
                        <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                         1 Cabinet;
                        </li>
                        <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                         1 Sofa;
                        </li>
                        <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                         1 TV;
                        </li>
                       </ul>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       2 Lights (both point lights);
                      </li>
                     </ul>
                     This scene has been rendering for about 30 minutes and has done 25 iterations (0%) so far...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Now even though all and everything has been left at default (e.g. objects carry their default (4K) texture files), this scene just won't fit into 2GB of VRAM, even if I use the scene optimizer and divide all textures by 16. The reason I continue anyway is to kill some time until my 1080TI arrives in a few days and I'll be able to see just how much it matters
                     <img alt=":p" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite673" data-shortname=":p" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Stick out tongue    :p"/>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Anyway, my point being, if you're spending money I'd put it into a decent GPU over anything else
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
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                     For that price its great deal the CPU is really good from the latest eighth gen it has 6 cores and 12 threads and can run up to 4.6ghz it will destroy anything you thought it with ease. as I said before 16gb of ram is plenty and as you said you can always upgrade it (not sure if the motherboard has 4 ram slots or just 2 I think it has just 2 but you can put a dual 16gb so the total would be 32gb which more ram then you never need for the next 5 years probably ).
                     <br/>
                     and as
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/members/pmnl.378875/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
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                     stated if your planing to render at 4K resolution more Vram will do you good. I can see from the link you sent me that Best Buy made it possible to swap the GPU for 1080 for like an extra 650$ and that's quite idiotic or 1050Ti for around 180$ more which is more idiotic.
                     <br/>
                     I say get this rig as it is and if your not satisfied with the GPU you can sell it, the price for 1060 3gb is around 250$ you can at worst sell at 200$ and get your self a 1080 for around 600$ or 1070ti for 500$ and that's a way better deal than what Buy Best offers.
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                     Thanks for all the feedback once again. I'm going to head over to Best Buy tomorrow and talk to the Geek Squad folks face to face. Sometimes they have open-box stuff that isn't shown online, or will do special upgrades on a case-by-case basis. I'm really glad I got my advice here - it sounds like the best bang for my buck revolves around the video card. It's gonna be awesome to get away from the onboard video I'm using now.
                     <br/>
                     I don't plan on rendering in 4k. My monitor is a 52" HDTV with max resolution of 1920X1080. If I work at a higher resolution than that I can't see the difference anyway.
                     <br/>
                     Right now I'm working in 1280X720 (one of the Ren'Py default sizes). I'm trying to suss out how to play movie files with Ren'Py. I'm HOPING to create animation on my desktop and capture it as something Ren'Py can play. It plays music in a loop, why not video?
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                     If you have money to throw around (which you might, cause that is a beast of a computer setup) look into getting Octane as well. Iray is good, don't get me wrong. But Iray to Octane is like comparing GIMP to Photoshop. Octane has a free demo on their website
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                     I strong recommend you try to change the 1060 3gb to a 6gb model, maybe with a cheap CPU to keep the same price.
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                     Ryzen series are very good too, they usually win from intel in comparison in the workstation aspect. Intel threads are faster, but Ryzen come with more threads.
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                     Look:
                     <a class="link link--external" href="http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-2700X/3940vs3958" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-2700X/3940vs3958
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                     The k on the intel model means that you can apply overclock on this model. The others are locked, only pay the extra price for k if you intend to overclock.
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                        ...Ryzen series are very good too, they usually win from intel in comparison in the workstation aspect. Intel threads are faster, but Ryzen come with more threads...
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                     To cut back the costs of a custom system I'd rather go Ryzen 5 or Intel i5, perhaps even less since the main goal of a "DAZ build system" is to make sure the entire scene fits inside the GPU's VRAM and if that's the case the CPU doesn't matter all that much. Not to say that having a more powerful CPU isn't useful for other applications such as running games or doing stuff on the PC while it's rendering, but If you're on a budget and intent to primarily use it as a rendering machine a lower end CPU should be fine.
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                     E.g.: I tried rendering a couple of images on my PC which I use for capturing gameplay (i7-6700K, 32GB RAM, no dedicated GPU) and rendering even the simplest of scenes takes ages since it's CPU bound, while the same images take about 10 - 20 minutes on my 2GB 965M equipped laptop (again, no optimizations to shaders or textures have been applied, just messing around).
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                    <time class="u-dt" data-date-string="Jun 25, 2018" data-time="1529915081" data-time-string="4:24 PM" datetime="2018-06-25T16:24:41+0800" dir="auto" title="Jun 25, 2018 at 4:24 PM">
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="SciGuy · Jun 25, 2018 at 4:24 PM" data-lb-id="post-859868">
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                        carnalcardinal said:
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                        --look into getting Octane as well. Iray is good, don't get me wrong. But Iray to Octane is like comparing GIMP to Photoshop. Octane has a free demo on their website
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                     Wow, a single Ocatane license is $400! While it could very well be something I'll buy in the future, I'm sticking to straight hardware for my 1st step. I can't even run the Octane demo right now. This poor system won't run Photoshop any more. When I try to open a 1920X1080 image I get an 'out of memory' error. I picked up Paintshop Pro which does work, but it sure ain't Photoshop. I've still got my old copy of CS5 in a portable version - something they discontinued when they went strictly online. It may be a little out of date, but it's still pretty awesome and there's no monthly fee.
                     <br/>
                     I don't really have any $$ to throw around, I just happen to FINALLY be getting a nice chunk of funds that's been accruing for the past 5-plus months. I pretty much live in front of my 'puter so spending for this upgrade is practically a necessity.
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                     If money is that tight I'd either go with
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="68352" data-username="@Johnyboy" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/68352/">
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                     's suggestion and see where a 3 GB 1060 will get you (which you could end up selling later if it turns out to not be enough), or dig into some custom builds to see if you can squeeze in a 6 GB version by lowering the CPU a tad. Reuse your old case and peripherals, perhaps you PSU if it's adequate and still in decent shape. You could even go for used components if you're not afraid of buying them to lower the pricing a bit.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Now as far as custom builds go I can't really help you price-wise, since I live in Europe and prices here are ridiculously inflated compared to US prices (your Best Buy build is around $1,200 if I were to configure it here),. However, taking some time to configure an Intel i5 or Ryzen 5 system with US pricing might lead to just that added headroom for a 6 GB model.
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                     I just got back from Best Buy and looked at a few systems up close.
                     <br/>
                     Because of the feedback here I think I'm going to go with a different system now.
                     <br/>
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpowerpc-gamer-master-desktop-amd-ryzen-5-series-8gb-memory-amd-radeon-rx-580-xtr-1tb-hard-drive-black/6225214.p?skuId=6225214" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberp...-1tb-hard-drive-black/6225214.p?skuId=6225214
                     </a>
                     <br/>
                     What I'm looking at comes with:
                     <br/>
                     AMD Ryzen 5 model 1600 CPU @3.2GHz
                     <br/>
                     8GB DDR4 SDRAM expandable to 64GB
                     <br/>
                     1TB HDD
                     <br/>
                     AMD Radeon RX 580 discrete graphics w 4GB VRAM
                     <br/>
                     What I like best about this system is how upgradeable it is. there are open slots all over the main board. The other system is pretty much maxed out. This one's also $200 less. I can use that to upgrade to 32GB RAM, or turn the system into something even better than the first one I was looking at for the same money. There was something about this video card having a dedicated chipset - I didn't catch it all. The GeForce begins bogging down at around 70% capacity while the Radeon runs full bore right up to nearly 100%.
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                     With any luck I'll have this thing by Saturday.
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                     You could probably save a fair bit by shopping around on NewEgg and Amazon for individual parts and just put a system together yourself. It is pretty simple and you will almost certainly get way better parts for the same price you're looking to spend. In particular, pre-built systems love to skimp on power supplies (PSU) and that is one of the few areas where it's a real bad idea to cut corners. Mother boards too for that matter.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     It's been ages since I last built a system, so I can't offer any current recommendations, but it is easy enough to stick to the stuff with hundreds or even thousands of high ratings and google for things like - best PSU brand model - and limit results to the last year. If you go with NewEgg it is also a good idea to limit search results to only stuff sold directly from NewEgg, as they allow 3rd party sellers on their site and some can be rather dishonest, though NewEgg themselves have always been pretty reliable for me.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If you're concerned about putting a system together, just check out youtube, there are tons of videos on building your own system, it's pretty easy and well worth the effort. I've been building all of mine (and many of those for my local friends and family) for probably around 16-18 years now.
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                        I just got back from Best Buy and looked at a few systems up close.
                        <br/>
                        Because of the feedback here I think I'm going to go with a different system now.
                        <br/>
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpowerpc-gamer-master-desktop-amd-ryzen-5-series-8gb-memory-amd-radeon-rx-580-xtr-1tb-hard-drive-black/6225214.p?skuId=6225214" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberp...-1tb-hard-drive-black/6225214.p?skuId=6225214
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                        <br/>
                        What I'm looking at comes with:
                        <br/>
                        AMD Ryzen 5 model 1600 CPU @3.2GHz
                        <br/>
                        8GB DDR4 SDRAM expandable to 64GB
                        <br/>
                        1TB HDD
                        <br/>
                        AMD Radeon RX 580 discrete graphics w 4GB VRAM
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                     8 GB of system RAM might be on the short side of things, but since it's expandable if you so desire you should be fine there. However, this system is
                     <b>
                      not
                     </b>
                     going to be able to render using your GPU since it uses an AMD branded card.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The reason for this is that Iray requires a CUDA based GPU (= NVIDIA), whereas AMD uses stream processing. While the cards might perform equally in let's say videogames, AMD based cards won't work in DAZ.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I'll scoop around some websites here in The Netherlands and try to come up with a build which I think would work while still being affordable, but keep in mind that since I am based in Europe prices might not convert 1:1. Nonetheless I'll see what I can do and will try to include some US websites if I can
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     --
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Edit: This quick scoop turns out to become a rather large spreadsheet in which I'm including brand new CPU's, GPU's, cases and what not, as well as some older generations so it might take a couple of hours to finish up but once it's done you should be able to pretty much point and click to what you'd like
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="SciGuy · Jun 27, 2018 at 1:28 AM" data-lb-id="post-863336">
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                        You could probably save a fair bit by shopping around on NewEgg and Amazon for individual parts and just put a system together yourself....
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                     Back in 'the day' I did the same thing. I was making a KILLING in the late 80's by building custom systems and selling them. Once the Chinese got involved with computers they crushed me though. I haven't looked into that route for decades! Building the system is pretty easy, loading up the OS  and other software that come standard with a new system can get pretty expensive though. It's been worth the small extra expense to have that already done for me. I'm definitely gonna check New Egg and Amazon though. A bare bones system might be the way to go for this machine.
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                        Edit: This quick scoop turns out to become a rather large spreadsheet in which I'm including brand new CPU's, GPU's, cases and what not, as well as some older generations so it might take a couple of hours to finish up but once it's done you should be able to pretty much point and click to what you'd like
                        <img alt=":p" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite673" data-shortname=":p" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Stick out tongue    :p"/>
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                     Thanks for the hard work PMNL. Thank GOD I didn't put that system on lawaway yesterday! I KNEW there was a reason I was being so adamant about staying with NVIDIA cards! That's all I've used since they first hit the market. The system I have now is the 1st one I've ever had with an onboard video chip that shares memory with the CPU. NEVER again!
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     MUST HAVES:
                     <br/>
                     The CPU can be either AMD or intel - Probably an AMD to save some $.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The video card is going to be a 6 GB (minimum) NVIDIA . Top of the line = $$$, My budget = $!
                     <br/>
                     I'll probably go with the 1050 or 1060, we'll see!
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     16 Gigs of RAM. Going from 8 to 16 is only like a $100 difference. I'll get a main board with 64GB capacity. RAM is relatively cheap, and easy to upgrade.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     A 1 TB HDD is pretty standard any more.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     A DVD/CD drive. I've got this pet peeve about keeping backup INSTALLABLE copies of stuff. My copy of Photoshop CS5 is a prime example. Adobe doesn't support it any longer.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     HDMI out port. The 52" TV/monitor has totally spoiled me.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Want:
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     SS HDD. Bootup speed is awesome, but I can live without it.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Everything else is window dressing. Bluetooth, wireless, available USB ports and locations - I don't need much there. As long as there's 1 USB port on the front for the wireless kbd/mouse combo I'm GTG.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In the mean time I'm still working on the game script and GUI. I've stopped making new images though. The game was conceptualized using HoneySelect, but I've got DAZ and a TON of DLC on those USB drives ready to install on the new system.
                     <br/>
                     My new avatar is the main female (1 of 5 so far) NPC for my game, made with HS. The MC 'creates' her at his new job. SYNTHia is a quasi-Westworld synthetic human. She may change drastically, depending on what I can do with DAZ. As the game progresses, I foresee others being created at work as well.
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                     Not a problem at all, that's what we're here for
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Now as far as my point-and-click thingy goes, it spiraled a "little" out of control and now contains the following:
                     <br/>
                     <ul>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       General info about CPU chipsets (AMD &amp; Intel);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       General PSU info;
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       General GPU info;
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       General RAM, CPU cooler and pc case tips;
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       CPU specific warnings;
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       28 of the latest Intel core processors (i3-6100 and up);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       15 of the latest AMD processors (a couple of recent APU's and all of their Ryzen processors);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       30 most popular NVIDIA Cuda based GPU's;
                       <br/>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       20 most popular PSU's ranging from 450W all the way up to 1200W;
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       22 Intel based motherboards (Intel B150 and up);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       13 AMD based motherboards (AMD B350 and up);
                      </li>
                     </ul>
                     All of the items are listed with their most important specs, as well as their EU and US prices to make comparing them a little easier.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The only downside of my little adventure, is that I wasn't able to follow up with my point-and-click part. I had something like a "PC configurator" in my head, but building all of that into a spreadsheet wouldn't make any sense and take a lot of fiddling with this antique VBA. However, like I said I've added a ton of info so you should be able to start messing around with components, and we can always add/remove/adjust things from there.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Since XLS files can't be uploaded I had to put it on Google Drive, so here's the link to it:
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://drive.google.com/open?id=1At2KNzz-qwRdQFI9yTIm15kqoDonEF6t" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      https://drive.google.com/open?id=1At2KNzz-qwRdQFI9yTIm15kqoDonEF6t
                     </a>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Viewing the file through your browser should work just fine, but I'd suggest you download it so that all the filtering and sorting options work as intended.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     ----
                     <br/>
                     Edit: As far as installing and buying software, Microsoft lets you use non activated versions of Windows 10 (or at least they used to), however you'll get a little watermark on your desktop saying it's not activated so that shouldn't really be an issue. If they no longer allow you to run non-activated versions you should be able to pick up a Windows 10 Professional licenses legally online for less than $ 30 though.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Other paid products one might need could always be pirated, but that's for you to decide, nor am I sure whether or not discussing that is allowed on here...
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="SciGuy · Jun 27, 2018 at 7:43 AM" data-lb-id="post-864178">
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                     Your Excel Sheet is - freakin' awesome. I've been poring over it for the past couple of hours and here's what I've picked out so far (All on NewEgg):
                     <br/>
                     CPU   Intel Core i5-7600K__________________________229.99
                     <br/>
                     GPU   Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 Windforce OC 6G_____ 369.99
                     <br/>
                     Pwr    Corsair VS550 PSU____________________________53.47
                     <br/>
                     MB     Asus Republic Of Gamers Z170
                     <br/>
                     MAXIMUS VIII HERO__________________________149.00
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Mem   Patriot Viper Elite 16GB DD4 RAM (2 X 8GB)_______154.99
                     <br/>
                     ATX Mid twr case, 4X pre-installed LED ring fans__________49.49 45% off!!!
                     <br/>
                     Kbd/mouse combo's are $20 and up. Win10 license - $30 (est). I can open up one of my spare external 1TB HDD's and mount it inside the case. I'll keep the tiny Passport 1TB drive for external use. That'll weigh in right around $1075 with shipping and everything. This system will absolutely SMOKE what all my friends have right now too.
                     <br/>
                     Did I leave anything important out?
                     <br/>
                     I'm not looking forward to the headaches of formatting the HDD and installing the OS though. That's the ONLY drawback to going the DIY route.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I found this system ready-to-go while browsing NewEgg.
                     <br/>
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883102355&amp;ignorebbr=1" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883102355&amp;ignorebbr=1
                     </a>
                     <br/>
                     ABS Battlebox Essential Meteor-X
                     <br/>
                     NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6 GB
                     <br/>
                     AMD Ryzen 1700 (3.00 GHz) 64 bit 8-Core Processor
                     <br/>
                     16 MB L3 Cache
                     <br/>
                     AMD B350 chipset
                     <br/>
                     8 GB DDR4
                     <br/>
                     1 TB HDD
                     <br/>
                     120 GB SSD
                     <br/>
                     500w power supply
                     <br/>
                     Wired keyboard and mouse
                     <br/>
                     Windows 10 Home 64-Bit ALA075
                     <br/>
                     $1,074.99!
                     <br/>
                     According to the web page, the motherboard maxes out at 8 MB. I'm assuming that's wrong, but I plan to contact the retailer just to be sure.
                     <br/>
                     My funds COULD be here as soon as tomorrow, but NLT next Tuesday.
                     <br/>
                     If the memory is upgradeable, I'll go with the ready-to-go Battlebox. If not, I'll order all the components, pick up a case of wheat beer, and spend a day throwing parts together and installing software.
                     <br/>
                     Either of these rigs will push my graphics off the charts.
                     <br/>
                     I'm just going to keep my current system as the dedicated TV unit. I've got 2 HDMI ports on the TV, I may as well use em!
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="NandabaCanti · Jun 27, 2018 at 8:24 AM" data-lb-id="post-864251">
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                     My only concern would be the PSU, it isn't all that uncommon for GPUs and CPUs to use a lot more power than they are listed for, especially when you have them under load with heavy tasks like rendering. A lot of mobos these days play a bit fast and loose with their interpretations of specs and overclock some stuff a bit by default which is part of the problem. In most cases 500w is just fine for a desktop system, but you'll want to double check and make sure it's enough for the hardware when used for more than browsing and light gaming.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Hopefully it is also a decent reliable PSU as well, which in my experience is rarely the case with pre-built systems, which has always been one of my biggest problems with them. I've seen entirely too many system with crap PSUs that have fried various components to trust my hardware to anything that isn't typically at least gold rated and from a reliable company with a good track record, such as Corsair like you went with in that first build (though again 550w may not be enough).
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                     Have you thought of ordering parts and putting it together yourself? Might save a bit of cash that way. I did that with my system and built a pretty powerful machine. I skimmed Newegg and Amazon and the prices seem a bit ridiculous to me. Over 1k and it only has a 1050/1060 in it? A brand new 1070ti is like $450 bucks. If you went that way you could order all the parts yourself a build a pretty good comp.
                     <br/>
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                     The issue with the card is, it's a bit harder to upgrade as opposed to ram and stuff. Sure, you can add a second card to the system later, but you'll need to make sure your power supply is good enough and then a Daz scene must fit totally on a single cards VRAM, so if you get say a 1080 later with 8gb VRAM, you'll still be limited to the 6 gb of the 1060 if you want to use both for rendering.
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                    My Specs:
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                    Gigabyte X570 AORUS Elite WiFi Motherboard
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                    be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU Cooler
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="PMNL · Jun 27, 2018 at 1:37 PM" data-lb-id="post-864683">
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                     <a class="username" data-user-id="602151" data-username="@SciGuy" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/602151/">
                      @SciGuy
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                     , like
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="361646" data-username="@uradamus" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/361646/">
                      @uradamus
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                     stated my biggest concern I have with that Newegg system would be the PSU as that's where vendors tend to try and save a couple of bucks. RAM and motherboards are usually of lesser quality (cheap capacitors, weird PCI-e lane connections) as well - especially when compared to the ROG Maximus you selected - but overall everything
                     <i>
                      should
                     </i>
                     work just fine.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     As far as the maximum of 8 GB of RAM you mention in your post, I'm 99.9% positive the mentioned RAM is the installed RAM only, and not the boards maximum capacity. Even Mini-ITX boards with the AMD B350 chipset offer at least 2 DIM slots, and since each slot is supposed to support a 16 GB Dimm according to international standards, I'm sure they've either opted with two 4 GB modules, or a single 8 GB one and left a couple of slots empty. Nothing wrong with double checking though, but I'm sure that's the case.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Now to compare hand-picking or buying a pre-build system: Since vendors don't list the exact components installed in these kinds of systems it's impossible to make a 1:1 comparison, but If I were to use my own Excel sheet combined with the work you did on it yourself, I'd end up with a similar price when selecting the cheapest parts:
                     <br/>
                     <ul>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       CPU : AMD Ryzen 7 1700 : $ 229.29
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       GPU : Asus ROG Strix GTX1060 O6G Gaming: $ 322.99
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       PSU : Corsair VS550 : $ 39.99
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Motherboard : MSI B350 PC Mate : $ 82.83
                      </li>
                     </ul>
                     This totals out at $ 675.10, which leaves around $ 400.00 for:
                     <br/>
                     <ul>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       RAM (~ $ 160.00);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       120 GB SSD (~ $ 40);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       1 TB HDD (~ $ 60);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Case (~ $ 50);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Peripherals (~ $ 40);
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Windows 10 licence (~ $ 30)
                      </li>
                     </ul>
                     This would then come in at around $ 1,055.00 which almost matches what Newegg is charging, except I'm able to squeeze in 16 GB of DDR4 instead of the Battlebox's 8 GB, or I could decide to go with 8 GB of system RAM for now and upgrade the 1060 6GB to a 1070 TI 8 GB, which not only makes more sense ($ 80 for an additional 8GB Dimm in a couple of months might be easier to acquire than another $ 500 for a brand new 1070 TI, although you could at that point sell your 1060 and make up for
                     <i>
                      some
                     </i>
                     of the price difference), but it would end up costing pretty much the same. and that's exactly where one of the major (if not the biggest) advantages of building a system yourself lies.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Another major advantage in building your custom system is that you'll
                     <i>
                      know
                     </i>
                     exactly what parts have been used and that those parts are from respected manufacturers. Now by no means will the Battlebox fry on you on your first render (and even if it does the should be something called "warranty") but like uradamus said, it
                     <i>
                      does
                     </i>
                     happen when users overload their pre-configured systems since these are designed for your average Joe.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Again, this is usually due to the fact that they skimp out on important parts like the PSU and/or motherboard which makes perfect sense to me. Imagine all the costs that go into selling such a system (buying/installing components, paying staff, taxes and housing, offering warranty etc.), all for about $ 100 worth of profit (assuming 8 GB of ram costs ~ $ 80)...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     My final point as far as comparing these systems goes, would be future expansion of the system. Since you don't know the exact components used inside the Battlebox, it might be a lot harder if not impossible to upgrade or add components in the future. As mentioned earlier I already had to do some guessing on the RAM configuration, but imagine wanting to add some additional fans to keep your system cooler or make it run quieter. Is there any room on the motherboard for additional fans or would you have to install a fan splitter? What about adding a capture card for capturing your Xbox/PS4 gameplay? are there sufficient PCI-e slots and if so, at what speed do they run?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If all that's holding you back from going full custom is the fact that you'd have to reinstall Windows, keep in mind that not only hardware, but software as well has come a long way since the late 90s/early 00s. With USB 3.0/3.1, insanely fast SSD's or NVME drives as well as increased internet speeds, reinstalling your PC and software shouldn't be a 5 day job anymore. I recently did exactly that on my laptop, and I was back up and running within half a day.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Now to round things up since I'm rambling on and on again, while the Battlebox should run perfectly fine I'd rather buy that case of beer and have some fun building my system since that would be the only way I would be 100% able to tell that things are exactly the way I like them to be. Not only would this guarantee me quality components have been used but I'll be 100% sure both the case as well as the motherboard contain all the I/O ports and slots I could possibly need, both now as well as in the future. Going full custom might lead to a little less beefy system spec-wise (the Ryzen 7 will definitely run circles around the selected i5), but you'll have (relative) certainty that the system runs smooth now and in the future.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     -----
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     One (somewhat unrelated) point I'd like to make concerning
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="361646" data-username="@uradamus" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/361646/">
                      @uradamus
                     </a>
                     statement as far as GPU overdraw goes, a decent 500/550 Watt PSU should be more than enough for running mid/high range GPU's, since these PSU's can actually deliver the advertised Watts at a constant rate. While it's true that GPU's can overdraw a little compared to their max specified power draws, it shouldn't be an issue if you've chosen an adequate and quality type PSU.
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-pascal,4679-6.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      Tom's Hardware
                     </a>
                     did a test back in 2015 where they measured the power draw of a reference GTX 1060, and under full load and maximum stress testing it pulled 122 W, where NVIDIA
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-1060/specifications" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      claims
                     </a>
                     it's maximum power draw is 120 W. This means that during stress testing it had 1,7% overdraw, which is negligible and might even be the result of environmental changes during tests. Moreover, NVIDIA actually tells you to buy at least a 400 W PSU. While this 400 W to me feels like it's way off (I'd say something in the 300 W region would be more than enough), they do this because they
                     <i>
                      know
                     </i>
                     subpar PSU's are being sold, and not all 300W PSU's actually deliver this wattage at a constant rate.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Another example, take a look at the
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-1080-ti/specifications" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      1080 TI's
                     </a>
                     page. NVIDIA says it's maximum power draw is 250W. Why on earth would one need more than double that amount of power under normal circumstances? If you pare this reference 1080 TI with a core i7-8700k (160W max. under load) you'd still have 90 Watts to spare for the rest of your system, which is nearly 20% if you're using a 500 W PSU. So unless you're going core i9 (230 W) or Intel Extreme (2066 socket), or to lesser extend Ryzen Threadripper (180 W) I don't see any reason why 500 - 550W shouldn't be enough.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     This obviously only works out if you're using a decent PSU, as well as regular components. If you're going balls to the wall with dual GPU's, a triple loop CPU/GPU custom water-cooling setup, 12 case fans and all sorts of meters or splitters you'll obviously need more power, but that's not your average Joe.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     A second point I'd like to address - since you're pulling 80 plus certification into the mix - is that I'm guessing you - like many others - are under the impression that the 80 plus certification tells you anything about power delivery to the system, which it does
                     <b>
                      not
                     </b>
                     . The 80 plus rating is
                     <b>
                      only
                     </b>
                     designed to measure energy efficiency at 20, 50 and 100% load, meaning what % of
                     <b>
                      AC
                     </b>
                     wall power is converted to
                     <b>
                      DC
                     </b>
                     power your PC needs.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     A lower 80 plus certification doesn't mean the unit won't be able to deliver it's advertised wattage to the system, it will however pull more power from the wall in order to deliver the required amount to your PC.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     To clarify, a 500 Watt PSU (assuming it's decent)
                     <b>
                      will
                     </b>
                     deliver 500 Watts of power to your system. However, if it's less efficient it might need to pull (extremely exaggerated) 600 W from the wall in order to deliver said 500 Watts to your system. The additional 100 Watts of power drawn will be lost converting AC to DC power. However, since the first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be "lost", this energy has to be converted into something else. In this case, heat, hence the PSU is less efficient and this is the primary reason why PSU's need a fan to dissipate this heat.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If a PSU was 100% efficient, all incoming power would be converted to outgoing power, leaving no room for energy to be converted ("lost") into heat (again, first law of thermodynamics), thus eliminating the need for a fan.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Final note: The above obviously isn't mend to be any kind of bashing but rather be a piece of info. There are way too many people who kind of know what they're doing, but by unintentionally sharing only half the truth (due to their lack of knowledge) pushes people they're trying to help into buying stuff they'll never need.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="NandabaCanti · Jun 27, 2018 at 3:00 PM" data-lb-id="post-864790">
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                     - I mostly only brought up the 80 plus as a point of quality, you generally don't see cheap trash PSUs with high efficiency ratings, so you are more likely to be getting a higher quality product made with more reliable parts as a welcome bonus to their pursuit of efficiency. I wasn't sure about GPU variability in power usage, but included it among the things I said should be checked because it will obviously be the thing using the largest chunk of the power being consumed.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The CPU side though is where you will see a lot bigger discrepancies in listed and actual power use under load, especially if any overclocking is going on and a lot of mobo's today will often tend to overclock CPUs a bit with their stock settings, it won't usually be anything too drastic but it is something to be aware of. If he would want to intentionally overclock down the line and/or upgrade to higher power parts including possibly a more powerful cooling solution they can add up pretty quick.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Also keep in mind I just said to double check that the 500-550w would be enough, not that it wouldn't be. Both GPUs and CPUs have gotten a lot more modest in their power requirements than they were when I last got caught up into building a system some years back. I haven't looked into the fine detail of actual numbers on current gen components yet, which is why I say it's always better being safe than sorry when it comes to double checking before buying.
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                     I find this site really useful when comparing parts and finding the cheapest price:
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                      https://pcpartpicker.com/
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                     It also has an option to choose from several different countries.
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                     I didn't mean to make it seem like you claimed 500W wouldn't be enough for this system, but after your elaboration on the matter I've come to the conclusion that I might've misinterpreted some points here and there.
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                     Glad though we can agree that doubling checking things is always a good thing!
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                     Man - so many choices!
                     <br/>
                     I'll let everyone in on a secret I learned from a master electrician while we were working on a servomotor with homing issues. Getting impatient, we tried to force the reset by taking shortcuts we weren't sure about. A little puff of blue smoke rose from the board and the motor went dead.
                     <br/>
                     That's the day I learned electronics run on smoke. Once ya let the smoke out they don't work any more. By the way, it was a pretty big servomotor with a much bigger price tag. Good thing WE didn't have to pay for the damn thing!
                     <br/>
                     I'm gonna use the experience from that day right now.
                     <br/>
                     First, I'm going to get a power supply I'll never have to worry about. The hell with dancing on the line with the ratings. It's stupid to try and save $50 when protecting a 'puter that costs well over a grand. A bad-ass power supply goes on top of the NEED list.
                     <br/>
                     I will NOT let the smoke out of this thing!
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The second lesson I'm gonna exercise is patience. I've been trying to cut corners here and there so I can get this thing up and running ASAP. I'm gonna go buy that case of wheat beer and take a deep breath. When the funds hit my account I'm gonna buy the components a few at a time.
                     <br/>
                     I'll start with these:
                     <br/>
                     MSI - GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8GB DUKE Video Card____$444.99 Newegg
                     <br/>
                     Asus Republic Of Gamers Z170 MAXIMUS VIII HERO__$149.00 NewEgg
                     <br/>
                     EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 750W 80+ Gold Certified
                     <br/>
                     Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply_________________$79.99 Amazon
                     <br/>
                     It may take a few weeks, but I'll end up with a dream machine.
                     <br/>
                     I've got more than enough to keep me busy on my core 2 duo anyway. My game is set in the 2080's, so I'm replacing cell phones with a futuristic heads-up display. I started learning how to code a week ago - this may take a while! I've got the basics of a phone that works right now in renpy, but it LOOKS like a cell phone. I can re-work it's appearance with transparent png's in Paintshop Pro.
                     <br/>
                     My HUD works as a separate game right now, and that's ALL it does. I've gotta figure out how to split it up into subroutines and make it something I can access from within the main game's GUI.
                     <br/>
                     Baby steps I guess ---
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                     A few comments:
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                     1. 120GB SSD isn't a good idea, they just get filled so fast you wouldn't believe. Until a year ago I was on a 240GB SSD and all I could fit on it was windows, photoshop, 3ds max, visual studio and 1 game pretty much. Now sure, in theory if you carefully manage the drive you can fit more but its just too annoying going over every single folder on that drive every few months to find those misplaced 20GB. Got a 1TB SSD now and now I can fit all my executables on it with room to spare, SSD only has a point if you can use it.
                     <br/>
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                     2. Maybe divert some funds from that CPU towards GPU. High end CPU's are really only worth it if you do oldschool 3d renderings but even that is dying out, every decent 3d creation tool has a GPU rendered available these days and they are much quicker. An 8GB RX580 should fit you nicely, its pretty much on the same level as a GTX1070 in non-commercial stuff. By that I mean nvidia focuses heavily on pressuring studios and optimizing for big titles which inflates their performance there but for everything else, like say homemade games, amd generally provides better value.
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                    <time class="u-dt" data-date-string="Jun 27, 2018" data-time="1530104655" data-time-string="9:04 PM" datetime="2018-06-27T21:04:15+0800" dir="auto" title="Jun 27, 2018 at 9:04 PM">
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                     - You clearly haven't bothered to read through the whole thread. AMD GPUs are out as iRay is developed on Nvidia tech and relies on CUDA for GPU rendering. Many other renderers are also based on CUDA and even when some of them do support OpenCL, they often don't have the same performance level and often have some restrictions that aren't there when running a card with CUDA support, such is the case with Blender's Cycles for instance.
                     <br/>
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                     On a separate note, you are very misguided if you really think CPU rendering is going away any time soon, especially at the professional level. There are many times where VRAM is no where near big enough to fit a scene, in which case you have no other option but to rely on CPU rendering which has access to insanely larger pools of RAM and traditionally it's been far easier to spread a render workload over a large number of CPUs than it is with GPUs. Even now that hybrid rendering systems are coming out that can take advantage of multiple GPUs, they continue to make use of CPUs and system RAM at the same time for the same jobs, making both important for those looking to get the most out of their rendering farms. That's probably where a good chunk of those crazy 18 core i9 CPUs end up, in big movie render farms.
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                     I'm still gonna get that SSD drive. 120 GB should be more than sufficient, so the 240 GB is going in the damn thing.  It isn't going to be the only HD in the system anyway. I was surprised at how much both types of HDD's have come down in price. the SSD will be the boot drive, and hold the apps I run the most.
                     <br/>
                     All the extras like DAZ DLC can live on a Barracuda internal HDD. This rig has one job ONLY - rendering KILLER graphics.
                     <br/>
                     I bitch and whine about my current system, but for day to day use it's perfectly fine. I download all my TV through a site called Torrentday. I've been with them for a decade and haven't had a cable bill in all that time! I have 2 invites if anyone's interested. Not sure how those work tho - I've never used one.
                     <br/>
                     Since I'm taking my time to put the new rig together, I'll get 32 Gigs of RAM right off the bat. It sounds really excessive to me, but ya never know. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
                     <br/>
                     I've gotta thank everyone AGAIN that have replied to this thread. I know I would have rushed out and bought a system I'd been unhappy with, but stuck because of all the $$$ I'd spent.
                     <br/>
                     That Excel doc was over the freakin' TOP PMNL!
                     <br/>
                     I begrudgingly followed up on it, mostly because you put so much work into it. It fired up the long-dead passion for building high-end systems (within reason anyway - I could easily spend $7k on TRUE top end stuff) and that's where I'm now headed. $2k is the final target now. I can at least get up and running for about half of that.
                     <br/>
                     One final question before I place my 1st order. Mu target is 32 Gigs, but I want to keep the option open to expand to the full 64. Will the damn thing run on a single 16 Gig stick? The answer was NO several years ago.
                     <br/>
                     I've lived through many changes in memory over the years though. The old timers out there may remember the days when there was 256k of reserved memory set aside for Microsoft's pre-Windows OS! That was a MASSIVE amt of memory back then, and the designers believed we'd NEVER need more than that.
                     <br/>
                     Time moves ever forward.
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                     Hehe glad to hear you've found that passion again and that my spreadsheet helped you find it (or should I be sorry
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                     ). Anyway, make sure to give me a shout if something else pops up.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     As far as your question with RAM goes, I don't see why using a single stick of RAM wouldn't work, except for the fact that - since you're using a single stick - by default you're not using dual/triple channel optimization but it should work just fine in single channel.
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                     In fact, ideally you should start building your system outside it's case using only a single RAM stick to test if all components work before you chuck everything into the case and can't reach half the parts.
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                     One thing I "need" to point out about using a single stick though,
                     <i>
                      is that ideally
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                     kits and sticks shouldn't be mixed or added later. E.G. you either get 4 x 16 GB at once, or buy a single stick now, and swap that out later for a full kit.
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                     Now those are the official manufacturer guidelines, but I've personally
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                      never
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                     heard about anyone having any issues by adding a second, third or fourth DIMM to their system later on. Even when said stick was from a different brand all together, so I'd say just go for it if 64 GB is what you want. At least until these ridiculously over-inflated RAM prices come down to acceptable levels again.
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                        AMD GPUs are out as iRay is developed on Nvidia tech and relies on CUDA for GPU rendering.
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                     That's hardly surprising since iray is developed by nvidia
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                     vray is available for all the same platforms and more though and is perfectly happy with opencl and is pretty much the industry standard anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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                        On a separate note, you are very misguided if you really think CPU rendering is going away any time soon
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                     Well.. it is going though, IMO its better to get familiarized with the way of the future rather than willingly jump into the same boat with companies that have old asset bases that are too expensive to redevelop.
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