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              plot before creating  a toon or a game
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                     Hi, i think that if you want to realize a good toon ora a game you need to start from a good plot, and if the plot deal with incest you don't have to start showing sex or stupid speeches, but real situation, a mix of fear,
                     <br/>
                     embarrassment and attraction. At first write a tale, then put it in 3d .....
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                     bye
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                        Hi, i think that if you want to realize a good toon ora a game you need to start from a good plot, and if the plot deal with incest you don't have to start showing sex or stupid speeches, but real situation, a mix of fear,
                        <br/>
                        embarrassment and attraction. At first write a tale, then put it in 3d .....
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                        bye
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                     <br/>
                     Well, starting it with sex can work, if you know what you're doing, but you're right about the people who for the most part start a story with pure expositional narration. There's a rule among screenwriters that should also be a rule among game designers that says don't use narration unless you absolutely have to. This rule is often seen as show, don't tell. To illustrate this I'm going to compare how Big Brother opens its story, to how the game I'm writing opens.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
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                       <b>
                        Big Brother
                       </b>
                      </u>
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                     <br/>
                     Big Brother opens with the main character telling you about who he is, he spends a paragraph or two telling us his backstory, then we watch as he tell us his mom's story, about her raising them and barely making ends meet, then we hear about Alice's story, a recent graduate who's looking for a future, blogs all day, and is the bitchy older sister, then we hear about lisa, how she's not doing well in school but not so bad that she's expelled, and so on. Finally we get the tacked on explanation that the father they never knew left them an amazing house and they're moving. Each family member gets a maybe a paragraph of exposition about who they are in relation to the MC.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <span style="color: #b30000">
                      <u>
                       <b>
                        The Things We Do For Love
                       </b>
                      </u>
                     </span>
                     <br/>
                     My story, working title, The Things We Do For Love, opens at night, a policeman who we learn from dialogue to be the father of the boy in the room he's entering, comes in and complains about having had a long day at work. The boy, asleep of course, doesn't respond. The father removes his covers, exposing his bare chest to the world, then he removes his pants, discarding them on the center of the floor, and straddles the boys chest, stroking his manhood. By now, I'm sure I've written in the boys name, Alexander, or at least Alex. So, the father, stroking himself in one hand, brings his other rough hand to Alex's face, turns it up to look at him, brushing his lips as he does so, then pulling down on his chin to open the boys mouth, which he then slowly enters. Shortly this finally wakes the boy, and seeing his father's form above him, tasting the cock that has intruded his mouth, Alex screams. His father, not wanting the whole house to wake, shoves hard, putting his dick in Alex's airway, and cutting off the scream, says something about how they don't want to wake the whole house.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Cut away from this, we open looking down on a young girl who bears a striking resemblance to our young Alex, asleep. Suddenly, her eyes flutter open and she exclaims "man, on gotta pee." She gets up, leaves the room and notices light trickling into the hall from an ajar door down the hallway, saying "hmm, Alexander must have left his door open." She has years it thinking to close it for him on the way to the bathroom, and just before she reaches it she hears a scream immediately cut off by much quieter gagging and gargling. Then she hears her father's voice in his harsh whisper to Alex about not wanting to wake the whole house. She turns the corner to investigate and freezes as she takes in the whole scene... her father, naked from the waist down, straddling her brother, her brother, struggling against his weight, gagging and gargling sounds filling her ears, her father still cooing and shooshing Alex, as if this is normal, as if Alex is gonna calm down... her eyes trail down... they find her fathers discarded pants. At their belt, is his service pistol, he hadn't made it to his room, so of course he hadn't removed it. She moves silently toward it, grips it, levels it on her father, in the way he'd taught her to use it, both hands wrapped appropriately around the grip, aim surprisingly steady, she puts three bullets into his back.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     As their father's bleeding body falls, Alex, coughing and sputtering up his father's deposit in his throat, he sees his savior, and calls out to her as he runs to wrap his arms around her, saying "ALEXIS!" The two of them embrace and collapse on their knees, Alexis' back, still to the door. Meanwhile, the sound of 3 gunshots absolutely awakens their mother, who springs out of bed, fearing the worst. She runs out of her room, notices Alexis' open door first, looks inside to find nothing and no one, panics and heads for Alexander's open door and the sight she's greeted by is too much to bear. In the center of her vision, her children are embracing on their knees, bawling their eyes out, a pistol discarded on the floor next to them, in the top left of her vision, lies her bleeding husband. On closer inspection of Alexander she sees tears mingled with saliva and a pearly substance, she see's her husbands pants are removed. She knows what happened and she screams.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     This is then followed by a short montage of the aftermath of this night over the course of 3 years which I have Alexander and Alexis take turns narrating, one speaking, then the other, often as if picking up where the other left off, the first of many character cues that show them to be twins. Alexander, for obvious reasons, never returned to his room, at first, he was set to sleep in the Living Room. But seeking safety and comfort, each night, he'd end up curled up on his sister's floor. Eventually, out of both concern and pity, Alexis just shares her bed with him. The courts after the incident ordered trauma counseling for the kids, which they would only go to if they were allowed to go together. They miss a whole year of school, as it's just too much to handle at first, and Alexander especially wasn't willing to be taken from Alexis' side. Their mother is forced to get a job after having been a stay at home wife and mom since she got pregnant nearly 16 years prior, the jobs she can get without more than a high school education aren't realy enough... there were some savings that keep them afloat for a while, but as our 3 year window comes to a close, she's going under, the house is gonna be taken, and swallowing her pride, she has to call her sister, a well off former model who married the owner of a modelling agency and took over it in his death. She, of course tells her that she and the kids can certainly move in, she's got room, and she hasn't seen them all in so long.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     That's how you're introduced to my main cast. The shared trauma is the door opening for my Main characters Alexander and Alexis, already close, as twins are wont to be, becoming far more intimate. And there's only more story based character development packed in as we go along. That's how you write a story. Sure, mine's dark and full of psychological trauma, but that's the kind of thing that opens the door to incest in real life, something has to happen to remove the natural barriers to incest that we all have. Some games do this by separating the characters for a long time, as those barriers are built when the child is growing up. 16 years in Parental Love would make the daughters 4 and 2 respectively, definitely young enough that neither they nor their father would have developed their barriers. The 10 in dating my Daugher not enough unless you play the game as if she was a high schcool freshman. But most just give us a pervert and a bit of narration to say, I want to fuck these people.
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                     CHARACTER DEPTH MATTERS!!!
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                      The Things We Do For Love
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                     ..so, what's your preferred game or cartoon dealing with that subject? if it's a subject that you like.............
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                     you are a writer, a game developer, your opinion for me is important
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                     sorry for my bad english
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                     thank you, regards
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                     At the moment, it's probably Babysitter. It's an Uncle Niece story, which solves the incest psychological barrier another way, but unlike some of the other games that use the exact same format, the writer is allowing the relationship to develop somewhat naturally. The current writer came on later in the project, so there are some elements I'm not as big a fan of, voyeurism for one, that were already written into the game, however it's dealt with in a more tasteful manner than some others, I guess. The writer and I talk often about the project, and I can't wait to see how it progresses.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Another game that does a relatively good job is Parental Love, as I mentioned in my last post, the father has been separated from his kids for 16 years, this alleviates the incest psychological barrier for this one. What creates tension though is that you, the father, are just now coming back into their lives, rekindling things with your wife, and now your daughter and you have something building up. This tension is exacerbated in more recent updates revealing that your wife and your sister have had threesomes with you in the past, so she know's that incest isn't a turn off for you. It's still not perfect, but it's a fun story.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Sisterly Lust is one that I think is being handled well, using the same separation to get over this incest hurdle, but this time, the character you play as is the son. In it you were taken by dad in the divorce and lived across the country or something. However after his death your mother comes to invite you to stay with them. It gives you the opportunity to get reacquainted with your 3 sisters and mom and if you so choose pursue them romantically. Mom's route is a bit of trickery but I'm not into M/S that much anyways. The route with the eldest sister is probably the sweetest, since she's a sweetheart herself in an abusive relationship with a crap human being. The middle sister, older than you, is the Tsundere character, she's mad at you for some reason you can't fathom from the beginning, but as you help her out of a blackmail situation, she starts to open up, seeing you're not such a bad guy, plus you look so much like her beloved daddy. The little sister is probably my favorite (what can I say, I have a kink for the imouto) her line is probably the most honest as well. The two of you are simply sexually curious about one another and so things start to happen. She's a bit of a tease but a virgin, you're not, but you're also a gentle person, so you are able to put her at ease as you start experimenting.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     One last shout out for one that does things a little differently, Blooming Love. This one is a lesbian incest game about two sisters. The elder sister ran away from home a few years prior for reasons we at the beginning didn't know, and till now are still a little in the dark about. The younger sister leaves later, after mom and dad get divorced, she insists dad didn't do anything, but that she didn't feel comfortable at home with him. So, the two sisters are now living together, and the elder one is a lesbian, through and through. The younger one, its revealed, is bisexual. You play as both depending on when the narrative calls for it, but the elder sister is the dominant role, with the younger sister being mostly passive. You confess to her that you find her attractive and the relationship Blooms from there. It's sweet, but a little sickly so. I like it, but I recognize that it has many flaws.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     And that's the reason I'm developing games now. I find most of these games aren't well written. Babysitter up there is among the better incest stories but because the developer started without a writer it suffers for it now. Most games lack narrative purpose, including all the ones I've mentioned above the convenience of the "we have been separated for years" plotline kinda removes any necessary narrative beyond the sexual. With my story, it will be as much about the exploration of the budding romance between the twins as it will be a story about a family uprooted, after disaster, and how they all come to terms with that in their own way. That's something that I think is missing from most games, narrative purpose.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I'll leave an Honorable Mention for Ptolemy's past project Dreaming of Dana, and his current side project, Intimate Relations, both of which have narrative purpose. I didn't include them in my lists above because Dreaming of Dana has pacing issues with it's gameplay, which stupidly behaves like a life sim. The other, Intimate Relations, is really interesting IMO, but it appears that Ptolemy isn't as enthusiastic about it, so it's playing second fiddle. However it does have a great new way of showing characters leaping the incest hurdle, so I'd still suggest it for now, even if it falls apart later.
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                     thank you very much,
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                     now i want to create a 3d toon dealing with incest, between a mother and a son. I'm informing myself about the best software to use, I think daz3d. I will have to find an old character and a 20 year old boy, I have already written the plot, now I have to learn to use the correct software...
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                     I like a woman just like the one in Dual Family...hope to realize something intriguing
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                     Thank you again DarthSeduction
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                        thank you very much,
                        <br/>
                        now i want to create a 3d toon dealing with incest, between a mother and a son. I'm informing myself about the best software to use, I think daz3d. I will have to find an old character and a 20 year old boy, I have already written the plot, now I have to learn to use the correct software...
                        <br/>
                        I like a woman just like the one in Dual Family...hope to realize something intriguing
                        <br/>
                        Thank you again DarthSeduction
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                        <br/>
                        J777
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                     I had totally forgotten Dual Family as an option. I really like the metanarrative in this game, particularly with the son's plot. The second time he dreams of the skeleton, the harsh reality he invites him to, of understanding the dark path that he's been on, and how that will play out to a dark future where he hurts the ones he claims to love. It's refreshing to see an incest game that criticizes the plethora of games that do incest by voyeurism, blackmail, deception, and molestation. These have their place, but as incest writers are so commonly bad, they don't use them correctly, and so it becomes a game of let me make these people fall in love in spite of my MC being a horrible potential serial killer.
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                     i like the expression of the mother in Dual Family....for me is not easy to create something dealing with incest, i have mentioned Dual Family for the figure of the woman that i'd like to realize with daz or a software like it...
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                     Do you use daz3d ? If yes, for you it's difficult tu use?
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                     thank you Darth
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                     J777
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                        i like the expression of the mother in Dual Family....for me is not easy to create something dealing with incest, i have mentioned Dual Family for the figure of the woman that i'd like to realize with daz or a software like it...
                        <br/>
                        Do you use daz3d ? If yes, for you it's difficult tu use?
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                        thank you Darth
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                        J777
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                     Sadly I've got no skill, personally, with digital art. I'm sure if I took some time and just sat down to learn it I could, but I'm impatient. So instead on all 3 projects I'm working on, I have an artist. 2 projects were actually brought to me by the artist, one a new project, and the other a parody project. The other, my brainchild, and the one I talked about above I had to look for an artist myself on. What I did, if you choose to go that route, was maintain a heavy presence here on the forums, posting in many places, conversing with people about things and writing. At that time my signature was a shoutout to any artists who would be interested in working on a game. I got a few replies in a couple weeks, but the second person was really good, so he's currently working on the art for that.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If you prefer to do it yourself though, the Daz forums and here on the site you can find lots of people willing to help. And as you get better you can even find groups that are looking for artists who will gladly help you hone your skills.
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