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   NTR tag overhaul (site-related discussion) | F95zone
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              NTR tag overhaul (site-related discussion)
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                     1.
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://vndb.org/g/list?q=netorare" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      https://vndb.org/g/list?q=netorare
                     </a>
                     already dealt with problem. Which means that problem with tagging/defining exist(ed) for years and they resolved it.
                     <br/>
                     2. (Almost) every time here on F95, when we see NTR tag, people ask if it is avoidable.
                     <br/>
                     3. IT MATTERS if this is free-will woman NTR or it is (gang) rape of MC's wife and he see that. Many NTR lovers, like me, absolutely hate NTR C.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     That is why I propose to be more specific for NTR tag. "Avoidable Netorare means that there
                     <b>
                      may be unavoidable
                     </b>
                     netorare-like situations in the game." - sorry, this is bullshit.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Approved by administration glossary should be visible for all. Uploader/thread starter, in case of detecting NTR, should IMO do following:
                     <br/>
                     Check if any of below situations appears at least once in the game and add tag. So there may be both avoidable and unavoidable NTR in one game. Standard NTR and netorase. NTR A and B. Etc.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     With addition of Unavoidable NTR, since VNDB tags are unclear here.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     So, after seeing tags, player already knows what to expect (that is what are tags made for).
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <b>
                      Definitions
                     </b>
                     (from
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://vndb.org/g/list?q=netorare" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      https://vndb.org/g/list?q=netorare
                     </a>
                     )
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote">
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
                       https://vndb.org/g513 said:
                      </div>
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
                       <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent">
                        <b>
                         Netorare (寝取られ)
                        </b>
                        is a sexual fetish designed to cause sexual jealousy by way of having the heroine indulge in sexual activity with someone other than the protagonist.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        For a game to be classified as Netorare the following conditions must be met:
                        <br/>
                        1. The heroine either must be romantically involved with the protagonist, a potential romance for him or of someone that the protagonist shares such a close relationship (sister, mother, osananajimi etc.) that jealousy is a factor.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        2. Related sexual events are explicitly shown to the player or later described in detail.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        This does not include relationships of heroines that are outside the route you follow. Explanation: Route 1 is for Heroine A, the protagonist is romantically involved with her. During that route, if she sleeps with other characters than the protagonist, it would be NTR. But during Route 2, which is about Heroine B, where the protagonist has no romantic relationship with Heroine A, her having sex with others wouldn't count as NTR.
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                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-title">
                       https://vndb.org/g1457 said:
                      </div>
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
                       <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent">
                        <b>
                         Netorare Type A
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        The heroine is willingly cheating on the protagonist with another guy and enjoys every second of it. No rape, blackmail, drugs etc. involved, it's consensual sex from the very beginning.
                       </div>
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                       https://vndb.org/g1458 said:
                      </div>
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
                       <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent">
                        <b>
                         Netorare Type B
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Initially, the heroine is raped, blackmailed, drugged or otherwise tricked to have sex with someone other than the protagonist. However, she eventually starts enjoying it and the sex becomes fully consensual in the end.
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                       https://vndb.org/g1459 said:
                      </div>
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
                       <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent">
                        <b>
                         Netorare Type C
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        The heroine is raped in front of the protagonist and he can only helplessly watch it. It's non-consensual from start to finish.
                       </div>
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                       https://vndb.org/g2028 said:
                      </div>
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
                       <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent">
                        <b>
                         Avoidable Netorare
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Netorare situations can be avoided in the game under certain conditions. Unlike "Only Avoidable Netorare," Avoidable Netorare means that there
                        <b>
                         may be unavoidable
                        </b>
                        netorare-like situations in the game.
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                       https://vndb.org/g684 said:
                      </div>
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
                       <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent">
                        <b>
                         <u>
                          Only
                         </u>
                         Avoidable Netorare Scenes
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        NTR scenes in this game can be averted by the player's action. Usually, they are in their own routes or are in a separate bad ends.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Games with multiple heroines and where NTR is necessary to proceed to that heroine's route does not count nor are games where you don't see the scene but it happens either way.
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                       https://vndb.org/g1663 said:
                      </div>
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
                       <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent">
                        <b>
                         Protagonist-organised Netorare
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        This kind of netorare is orchestrated by the deliberate actions (or inaction) of the protagonist.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        The heroine wouldn't willingly cheat on the protagonist, but he intentionally manipulates the situation so that she will end up raped by other men, or just flat out convinces/orders her to have sex with them. Either he does this for personal gain (selling his girlfriend for money or using her to obtain blackmail materials on someone), wants to push the heroine away, or he enjoys such a situation where the heroine has sex with other men.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Voluntary NTR
                        <br/>
                        Voluntary Netorare
                        <br/>
                        <b>
                         Netorase
                        </b>
                        [added here by CobraPL]
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                       https://vndb.org/g1313 said:
                      </div>
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
                       <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent">
                        <b>
                         Reverse NTR
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        Games where a hero/heroine or other side character steals the male protagonist away from another hero/heroine.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        For a game to be classified as Netorare the following conditions must be met:
                        <br/>
                        1. The heroine must be close (his osananajimi, etc.), romantically involved, or a close relative (sister, mother, etc.) with the protagonist.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        2. If it is an eroge, related sexual events are explicitly shown or later described in detail.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <b>
                         Aliases
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        Reverse netorare
                        <br/>
                        Heroine netorare
                        <br/>
                        Female netorare
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                     Those tags are very well defined. I support this.
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                     I really don't think we need 8 tags just for NTR.
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                     <a class="username" data-user-id="2222" data-username="@Bloo" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/2222/">
                      @Bloo
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                     worked hard to clean up the tags, so they aren't bloated with unnecessary stuff and this would be counterproductive.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In fact VNDB has a lot of tags that we don't have and don't want. I mean we don't separate tags for incest either (mother/son - father/daughter - brother/sister - aunt/nephew - uncle/niece - etc.)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In the end avoidable, non-avoidable etc. is all still NTR. So in my opinion the universal tag is fine.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I can tell you one thing. I wouldn't bother researching in detail which kind of NTR is in a game. Most games that are uploaded are just tested for being in english and working.
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                        I really don't think we need 8 tags just for NTR.
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                        worked hard to clean up the tags, so they aren't bloated with unnecessary stuff and this would be counterproductive.
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                        In fact VNDB has a lot of tags that we don't have and don't want. I mean we don't separate tags for incest either (mother/son - father/daughter - brother/sister - aunt/nephew - uncle/niece - etc.)
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                        In the end avoidable, non-avoidable etc. is all still NTR. So in my opinion the universal tag is fine.
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                        I can tell you one thing. I wouldn't bother researching in detail which kind of NTR is in a game. Most games that are uploaded are just tested for being in english and working.
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                     To add to Oiz, from a logistical standpoint this just isn't feasible.
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                     Uploader's/Jr Uploaders are an all volunteer force. Some of us have a lot of time to devote to uploading, some have very little. We also create and update threads from all different fetishes and game types. It would be unfair to those donating their time to expect them to go through every game and add very specific tags to each one, that is why we use the current tags system.
                     <br/>
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                     I am sorry that we cant meet this specific need. I know NTR has many specific sub-genres within it that some may not like. But to keep the site running smoothly sometimes sacrifices need to be made.
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                     Bear in mind that vndb is a database and giving detailed information is their very objective. To that effect, they have literally thousands of tags for every possible situation one might find in a game, f95 is mostly about sharing and talking about adult games, so the devs' time wold be better used making features to improve the forum experience instead of looking for detailed information on every game they upload.
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                     Not a reasonable request for this forum to have multiple different NTR tags and also expect its users to know the exact differences between them. People will still see NTR and complain.
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                     It's a waste of time and expecting this forum to have the level of detail as a database isn't reasonable.
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                     Instead of the multitude of extra NTR tags, I would be happy to see just two, Netorare, and Netori.
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                     I know that many people say that 'Netori' is not necessary, due to the fact that most/all harem games feature it, but it would be handy for those specifically looking for that genre of 'NTR', but who do not like the other kinds.
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                    "It's like the great stories. The ones that mattered. Full of darkness and danger... And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. But it's only a passing thing. Even darkness must pass. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you...."
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                     Guys, with tags available, uplaoder could use proper tags IF HE CAN. If not, he will use just NTR, and person who actually played could post feedback with proper NTR info.
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                     If not everybody is using them then people searching for NTR A won't see content because they will just be tagged as NTR, so they'll miss a load of content and need to go back and search for NTR anyway, in which case the new tag is redundant.
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                     I don't get how you can even have avoidable NTR, if you can avoid it, and you choose not to, you are choosing to let your partner fuck somebody else? That's swinging/being in an open relationship not NTR.
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                     Best solution would be that people who don't like ntr wouldn't see or be able to comment on games with ntr tag.
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                     Like someone complains about ntr as they always do and mods could just tag that person as "anti-ntr" and all offending content would be hidden from them in the future.
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                     Why should they suffer from games with ntr and why should anyone else suffer them in threads about games with ntr in them?
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                     I support the idea, even tho i hate ntr, theres game out there that have it but still good games to me as long as my choices can prevent it, this way both sides can like a game
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                     I think NTR in games is cool, means I get to watch ingame sex without grinding. Free sex people!
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                        1.
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://vndb.org/g/list?q=netorare" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         https://vndb.org/g/list?q=netorare
                        </a>
                        already dealt with problem. Which means that problem with tagging/defining exist(ed) for years and they resolved it.
                        <br/>
                        2. (Almost) every time here on F95, when we see NTR tag, people ask if it is avoidable.
                        <br/>
                        3. IT MATTERS if this is free-will woman NTR (like in MuseX Farmer's dreams) or it is (gang) rape of MC's wife and he see that. Many NTR lovers, like me, absolutely hate NTR C.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        That is why I propose to be more specific for NTR tag. "Avoidable Netorare means that there
                        <b>
                         may be unavoidable
                        </b>
                        netorare-like situations in the game." - sorry, this is bullshit.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Approved by administration glossary should be visible for all. Uploader/thread starter, in case of detecting NTR, should IMO do following:
                        <br/>
                        Check if any of below situations appears at least once in the game and add tag. So there may be both avoidable and unavoidable NTR in one game. Standard NTR and netorase. NTR A and B. Etc.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        With addition of Unavoidable NTR, since VNDB tags are unclear here.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        So, after seeing tags, player already knows what to expect (that is what are tags made for).
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <b>
                         Definitions
                        </b>
                        (from
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://vndb.org/g/list?q=netorare" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
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                     Exactly...the first description of Netorare is spot on. That's the one i enjoy the most, more people need to look on this thread how different NTR can be for some. Also agreed on the hate for NTR C can't stand that kinda stuff, free willed woman getting seduced by someone is the way to go in my opinion. Sorry for the bump but had to type something, if i end up getting asked what NTR is again. I'm sending them the link to this thread cause it's probably the best way for them to understand. Thank's Cobra for teaching this to people.
                     <img alt=":p" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite673" data-shortname=":p" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Stick out tongue    :p"/>
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                        I support the idea, even tho i hate ntr, theres game out there that have it but still good games to me as long as my choices can prevent it, this way both sides can like a game
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                     I agree with this.
                     <br/>
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                     There are a lot of games which have some NTR content, but it's not the main thing (e.g. BB), or the player can choose to ignore/avoid it completely or alternatively go in heads first (e.g. The Tyrant).
                     <br/>
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                     In my opinion, there is a big difference to such games, where NTR in any form is a side dish, to games which are centred around sharing / cheating (e.g. The Adventurous Couple).
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     So a an additional tag could make sense. In my opinion, BB wouldn't need an NTR tag. The Tyrant could have an "Optional NTR" tag and The Adventurous Couple "NTR".
                     <br/>
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                     On the other hand, this difference in focus is usually already apparent from the description as well. And although any tag maybe present or not, people may still take offense at certain content. I guess that's up to them...
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                     I am not against an idea of more tags if that means people will find games more suited for them. 8 different sub-tags for a genre might be a bit excessive though! Maybe we could boil it down to simply avoidable ntr and non-avoidable ntr to begin with?
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                     The current f95 tags include swinging, cheating, NTR, and rape.  Those seem to cover most of the cases people want to have marked.  I could see at least some reason for adding 'unavoidable NTR,' as that just depends on the presence of one scene.  'Avoidable NTR,' however, seems to require that every update the OP/editor play through every scene to see whether or not unavoidable NTR is entirely missing from the game.  That is too much work.
                     <br/>
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                     Side note: if people are really considering what tags to add, may I suggest some kind of 'ipatch' tag to indicate that a game has a patch that puts in/restores incest content?
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                     I don't understand why so many hate to NTR, I just see it as porn. Because it's just what it is, just a porn story. My question is, when this people watch regular porn with double penetration or gang bang or even an orgy, do they also feel NTR'ed ?? Literally other cocks, and not theirs, are hitting the girl of their inteterest in that moment.
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                     It's just porn...
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                        I really don't think we need 8 tags just for NTR.
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                        worked hard to clean up the tags, so they aren't bloated with unnecessary stuff and this would be counterproductive.
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                        In fact VNDB has a lot of tags that we don't have and don't want. I mean we don't separate tags for incest either (mother/son - father/daughter - brother/sister - aunt/nephew - uncle/niece - etc.)
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                        In the end avoidable, non-avoidable etc. is all still NTR. So in my opinion the universal tag is fine.
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                        I can tell you one thing. I wouldn't bother researching in detail which kind of NTR is in a game. Most games that are uploaded are just tested for being in english and working.
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                     I don't see why more specific tags is a bad thing. It's fine if initial testers and uploaders don't have perfect tags, but it can be helpful as time wears on to have content correctly marked for the audience. These small differences clearly make a big difference for users so why not include them and make early adopters/players aware that accuracy comes with time.
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                     I don't understand why increasing accuracy with time is a bad thing. NTR is attractive to some when it's only netori but in absolutely no other circumstance.
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                    <time class="u-dt" data-date-string="Jul 10, 2021" data-time="1625904661" data-time-string="4:11 PM" datetime="2021-07-10T16:11:01+0800" dir="auto" title="Jul 10, 2021 at 4:11 PM">
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                  63
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                  Dot/pixel tag
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               <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 38">
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                  12
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                 <a class="username" data-user-id="6431071" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" dir="auto" href="/members/caelt559.6431071/">
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               <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 37">
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                  32
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