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                     <b>
                      Hello all.
                     </b>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I'll be honest with everyone, I'm not 100% sure why I'm writing this post...
                     <br/>
                     I guess it's just some things I've noticed over the past several months and thought I'd share my experience with anyone that is interested in hearing it.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <b>
                      Negative Comments/Constructive Criticism :
                     </b>
                     <br/>
                     I guess the hardest part of being a game developer is dealing with the negative comments...
                     <br/>
                     Especially in the early stages of development.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I've seen developers come and go over the past serval months and after speaking to a few of them it always seems to be down them "losing motivation" to keep developing and improving their work/skills.
                     <br/>
                     When I asked them to elaborate on what made them "loose Motivation" there experience was the same as mine.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     For those of you unaware, the negative comments that people leave on developers pages/threads etc have a bigger effect on the developer than you probably realize, especially the new ones starting out.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I know I personally can read 30-40 positive comments about my work but then I'll come across that 1 comment...
                     <br/>
                     You know what I'm talking that about, That one person that just comments something like :
                     <br/>
                     <u>
                      <i>
                       "This is shit, you should give up now".
                      </i>
                     </u>
                     <br/>
                     That 1 comment will stand out from all the others and take a front seat in the developer's mind...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Even though I may have just had 30-40 people telling me that I'm doing a good job and that they like my game etc, that 1 negative comment will have a much bigger impact on me than all of those other comments and will be on my mined all day...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     You end up starting to doubt yourself and the work you're doing...
                     <br/>
                     Which let's face it, it's stupid considering 30-40people have just said they enjoy your work but for some reason, our brains focus more on the negative feedback than the positive...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Now don't get me wrong, this may not be the case for every developer out there.
                     <br/>
                     Especially the ones that have been established for a while now as they have dealt with this for a long time and have learned to ignore such comments but for those developers just starting out it has a really big impact.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I think we can all agree that most new games being developed start out "Terrible"...
                     <br/>
                     But that's because they're just starting out and are in the early development stages.
                     <br/>
                     I know I can honestly say looking back at my first attempts/earlier builds I feel ashamed at how bad they were...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <b>
                      I guess what I'm trying to say is :
                     </b>
                     <br/>
                     Before you post something on a developers page/thread take the time to think about what you're actually about to post.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     You can either post a: "
                     <b>
                      negative comment
                     </b>
                     "
                     <br/>
                     Which let's face it, it doesn't help anyone and is kinda pointless to post unless you're actually someone that just wants to make someone feel bad.
                     <br/>
                     <span style="font-size: 10px">
                      <b>
                       (Which to be very very blunt, makes you a horrible person)
                      </b>
                     </span>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Or you can post: "
                     <b>
                      Constructive Criticism"
                     </b>
                     <br/>
                     The game you're posting about may, in fact, be terrible, but instead of just pointing that out how about letting the developer know what is making the game a terrible experience for you so they can try and fix it and improve their game/skill set.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I've seen some really good talent/first attempts at games lost/abandoned over the past several months because of this and it's a real shame that they got knocked down before they even managed to get started...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <b>
                      My advice to new developers:
                     </b>
                     <br/>
                     As hard as it may be starting out dealing with "negative comments" you need to remember one thing, You can only improve going forward.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Yes, It's hard to ignore comments such as these, Trust me I know.
                     <br/>
                     But these people don't care about your game.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The comments you need to be focusing on is the positive comments and the people taking the time to give you "
                     <b>
                      Constructive Criticism"
                     </b>
                     these people do care about your game.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Yes, You'll get negative feedback from the people giving you "
                     <b>
                      Constructive Criticism"
                     </b>
                     but this is a good thing because they're explaining to you what is making your game a bad experience for them to play.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Don't take the "
                     <b>
                      Constructive Criticism"
                     </b>
                     people are giving you to heart, these people are fantastic and will help you improve your game and skills going forward.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <b>
                      That's it...:
                     </b>
                     <br/>
                     I guess that's all I have to say/share really...
                     <br/>
                     I may have just wasted 10 minutes of my life writing this but I guess I'm just hoping to open a few peoples eyes.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     -Boom
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                     u will never change this kids, so.... ignore them.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="a meme · Mar 11, 2018 at 7:14 PM" data-lb-id="post-566311">
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                     You're not wrong about that. However, there's possibilities for someone to leave that kind of negative comment:
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <ul>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       The guy speaking the truth: the game really is so shit he doesn't bother explaining because it's so obvious (no content, broken english, poor scenario, grindy gameplay, etc.). He may be crude, but also right.
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       The internet citizen: someone who spent too much time on the internet and started behaving as such. They have reasons to be negative about the game though, so ask them to explain themselves. Usually, they stopped explaining themselves because of fanboys attacking their legitimate criticism or the dev completely ignored them or brushed them off as trolls.
                       <br/>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       The internet cave troll: a lost cause, just ignore them. You can easily recognize them by looking at their post history (racism, constantly looking for fights, etc.).
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                     To deliver constructive criticism does not require to care about your game. I think you are wrong with that point.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     People basically split into 2 groups in comments:
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The consumers - they comment on your product 'as is'. If you spit out something that is merely an early prototype and call it 'game' you have it coming. (Before your heart explodes here - i dont know your game at all. This is a general comment and if you dont think it applies to your game: good for you).
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The second group consists of people with at least some basic background knowledge about development, design etc. Most often those people will not really comment or if they do it might sound bad unless you really delivered a proper and consistent design, good tools, consistent mechanics - this list can go on for hours.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Looking around here i risk a verbal beating now and say that most of the comments in 'game discussion' threads will consist of consumer comments. If they make you feel uncomfortable or even make you doubt yourself chance is high something isnt right with your 'product'. A consumer does not have to care about how many hours it takes or which tools or how complicated something is. They comment based on consumer experience. If the experience is bad the comment will be bad. You as a developer have to learn to cope with that and have to make decisions (as you are basically a business).
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Not meaning to sound too snappy here. But a developer isnt necessarily a good product manager (in fact most are not). The game discussion threads require a different attitude than the one a developer usually has. As a developer you should deal with designs, code, mechanics and when consumers think something is bad your developer brain immediately sees the implications on a development level and you feel like they call you a bad developer now . Which they are not. They simply see something isnt as they like to have it in the product or something is really not working out for them.
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                        a meme said:
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                        You're not wrong about that. However, there's possibilities for someone to leave that kind of negative comment:
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
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                         <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                          The guy speaking the truth: the game really is so shit he doesn't bother explaining because it's so obvious (no content, broken english, poor scenario, grindy gameplay, etc.). He may be crude, but also right.
                         </li>
                         <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                          The internet citizen: someone who spent too much time on the internet and started behaving as such. They have reasons to be negative about the game though, so ask them to explain themselves. Usually, they stopped explaining themselves because of fanboys attacking their legitimate criticism or the dev completely ignored them or brushed them off as trolls.
                          <br/>
                         </li>
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                          The internet cave troll: a lost cause, just ignore them. You can easily recognize them by looking at their post history (racism, constantly looking for fights, etc.).
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                        tooldev said:
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                        To deliver constructive criticism does not require to care about your game. I think you are wrong with that point.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        People basically split into 2 groups in comments:
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        The consumers - they comment on your product 'as is'. If you spit out something that is merely an early prototype and call it 'game' you have it coming. (Before your heart explodes here - i dont know your game at all. This is a general comment and if you dont think it applies to your game: good for you).
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        The second group consists of people with at least some basic background knowledge about development, design etc. Most often those people will not really comment or if they do it might sound bad unless you really delivered a proper and consistent design, good tools, consistent mechanics - this list can go on for hours.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Looking around here i risk a verbal beating now and say that most of the comments in 'game discussion' threads will consist of consumer comments. If they make you feel uncomfortable or even make you doubt yourself chance is high something isnt right with your 'product'. A consumer does not have to care about how many hours it takes or which tools or how complicated something is. They comment based on consumer experience. If the experience is bad the comment will be bad. You as a developer have to learn to cope with that and have to make decisions (as you are basically a business).
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Not meaning to sound too snappy here. But a developer isnt necessarily a good product manager (in fact most are not). The game discussion threads require a different attitude than the one a developer usually has. As a developer you should deal with designs, code, mechanics and when consumers think something is bad your developer brain immediately sees the implications on a development level and you feel like they call you a bad developer now . Which they are not. They simply see something isnt as they like to have it in the product or something is really not working out for them.
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                     Some really good insight, Thank you both for taking the time to write this for others to read.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="dspeed · Mar 11, 2018 at 7:32 PM" data-lb-id="post-566329">
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                     Err.....sort of.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     It's a bit of an easy cop out to be honest.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Anybody who has ever studied Project Management in software will tell you that the vast majority of projects fail.  They fail based on different criteria to those in indie game projects but they're still classified as a failure.  Anybody who has been around the indie games market will tell you that indie games fail with a ridiculous regularity.  If it was lower than 99% of projects, I'd be pretty shocked.  Failure being defined with having a finished, polished product which you either sell or release for free.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The problem is internal motivation and that's not on the negative audience but on you as a developer, but it's also something that changes as your experience deepens and your level of knowledge grows.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Specifically if we want to get down to it, new developers have extremely unrealistic goals regarding their time, their ability and the length that of time that it will take to create something.  On the old cprogramming.com boards this used to manifest itself with about 20 posts a week, usually with terrible grammar, telling people that they're a brand new developer and they're highly experienced in playing WoW but they know the one or two things wrong with it so they're going to make the next WoW and they want people to join them.  "Like WoW, but..." was a common phrase used by beginner developers.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Things like GamaSutra, Youtube and social media have opened up the eyes of many people to the realities of game development so we don't get many new guys any more saying they're going to build the next Call of Duty, a multi million dollar budget game made by 250 developers across 3 years, alone in their bedroom on their computer.  But we still have the constant problem that people aim WAY too high for their early projects.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Motivation is a funny thing.  This resonates past software and into life itself whenever you want to make a change.  So you want to do something positive - great!  So you pick something; game development or a diet or learning a new language.  And the first few days are fantastic, you're finally doing that thing you want to do!  You're positive, your life is going to be different now, you're going to do this.  Then one of a few things happen; either you think that you've made progress so you can afford to slack off or you do the much more likely option of starting to realise the massive task that you've undertaken and how long this thing will take.  That early motivation that spurred you through the start of the journey wears off and all you're left with is a nagging feeling in your head that you should be doing something or working out or building your game or practising your verbs but a crippling level of procrastination that ensures you don't.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Here's the trick.  Motivation is a lie when it comes to do anything worth doing.  If you're sustaining yourself on motivation from your accomplishment or by positive comments (to the point that the opposite makes you give up) or motivation from you congratulating yourself then you need to reevaluate your project.  Motivation builds a wall, discipline creates a city.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Discipline is the thing whereby you do something that you understand is something that you SHOULD do but not necessarily something that you WANT to do right now.  One line of code, every single day.  That's the goal.  You write one line then you're progressing.  Anything extra is a bonus but every single day you have to write one line (or if you're late enough into your project, rewrite one line).  And you should be happy and congratulate yourself on doing that because you've just surpassed all of the people who completely gave up that day and wrote nothing.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     You're probably never going to be John Carmack or Sid Meier.  Hell, you're probably never going to be
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="178872" data-username="@DarkSilver" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/178872/">
                      @DarkSilver
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                     or DarkCookie who made great, popular products that they could monetise well and start the beginnings of a studio.  But that's ok because not everybody needs to be that, you only need to write that one line every day and go wherever that takes you.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Whether you read negative comments all day or not.  Whether you're sick or busy or tired or bored or whatever.  One line a day.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     When you add up all of those one lines a day, you'll find you have a pretty well established product that you can begin to polish and learn from.  Then you take the lessons that you learnt from taking your terrible mess of one lines into the next game design and start the process again.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I have a friend who is a script writer in the movie and TV industry.  Somebody once asked him how he became such a good writer and he looked at them confusedly and said "well I write a lot".  Same idea.  Want to be a game developer?  Sweet, develop some games.  And keep doing it.  Start with Hangman then Asteroids then go to PacMan then Mario then keep adding complexity and sophistication.  In fact if you've actually built a Hangman game and a PacMan game that works (and that's a tough task in itself), congratulations - you now have the skills to build the next Call of Duty as part of a huge team because it's the same concepts just scaled up in complexity dramatically.  Though you should probably still not try to jump 100 steps ahead in your complexity!
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     On a final note actually, I want to semi-rant about this.  In the adult space I don't see anywhere near enough ideas of "sexy Hangman" or something extremely simple with an adult twist yet see a ton of clones of other games.  If you want to learn, you have to start with a tiny project, some that is realistic and that you can manage and complete to some level of actual polish.  Creating a 500,000 word Visual Novel with branching stories or God forbid "WoW but porn" is still far too common for beginners.  We've opened up the games industry by providing new people with the tools for them to start developing their ideas but we haven't opened up the basic fundamentals of learning that, which is to tell you that every single games programmer out there has built a shitty Pac Man clone or a shitty Mario rip off and having an incredibly small game focused on a single mechanic in no way limits your creativity or theming options.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Just do the work and keep doing it over and over and over.  That's the "trick" to doing anything.
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                       <a class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" data-content-selector="#post-566329" data-xf-click="attribution" href="/goto/post?id=566329">
                        dspeed said:
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                        Err.....sort of.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        It's a bit of an easy cop out to be honest.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Anybody who has ever studied Project Management in software will tell you that the vast majority of projects fail.  They fail based on different criteria to those in indie game projects but they're still classified as a failure.  Anybody who has been around the indie games market will tell you that indie games fail with a ridiculous regularity.  If it was lower than 99% of projects, I'd be pretty shocked.  Failure being defined with having a finished, polished product which you either sell or release for free.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        The problem is internal motivation and that's not on the negative audience but on you as a developer, but it's also something that changes as your experience deepens and your level of knowledge grows.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Specifically if we want to get down to it, new developers have extremely unrealistic goals regarding their time, their ability and the length that of time that it will take to create something.  On the old cprogramming.com boards this used to manifest itself with about 20 posts a week, usually with terrible grammar, telling people that they're a brand new developer and they're highly experienced in playing WoW but they know the one or two things wrong with it so they're going to make the next WoW and they want people to join them.  "Like WoW, but..." was a common phrase used by beginner developers.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Things like GamaSutra, Youtube and social media have opened up the eyes of many people to the realities of game development so we don't get many new guys any more saying they're going to build the next Call of Duty, a multi million dollar budget game made by 250 developers across 3 years, alone in their bedroom on their computer.  But we still have the constant problem that people aim WAY too high for their early projects.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Motivation is a funny thing.  This resonates past software and into life itself whenever you want to make a change.  So you want to do something positive - great!  So you pick something; game development or a diet or learning a new language.  And the first few days are fantastic, you're finally doing that thing you want to do!  You're positive, your life is going to be different now, you're going to do this.  Then one of a few things happen; either you think that you've made progress so you can afford to slack off or you do the much more likely option of starting to realise the massive task that you've undertaken and how long this thing will take.  That early motivation that spurred you through the start of the journey wears off and all you're left with is a nagging feeling in your head that you should be doing something or working out or building your game or practising your verbs but a crippling level of procrastination that ensures you don't.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Here's the trick.  Motivation is a lie when it comes to do anything worth doing.  If you're sustaining yourself on motivation from your accomplishment or by positive comments (to the point that the opposite makes you give up) or motivation from you congratulating yourself then you need to reevaluate your project.  Motivation builds a wall, discipline creates a city.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Discipline is the thing whereby you do something that you understand is something that you SHOULD do but not necessarily something that you WANT to do right now.  One line of code, every single day.  That's the goal.  You write one line then you're progressing.  Anything extra is a bonus but every single day you have to write one line (or if you're late enough into your project, rewrite one line).  And you should be happy and congratulate yourself on doing that because you've just surpassed all of the people who completely gave up that day and wrote nothing.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        You're probably never going to be John Carmack or Sid Meier.  Hell, you're probably never going to be
                        <a class="username" data-user-id="178872" data-username="@DarkSilver" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/178872/">
                         @DarkSilver
                        </a>
                        or DarkCookie who made great, popular products that they could monetise well and start the beginnings of a studio.  But that's ok because not everybody needs to be that, you only need to write that one line every day and go wherever that takes you.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Whether you read negative comments all day or not.  Whether you're sick or busy or tired or bored or whatever.  One line a day.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        When you add up all of those one lines a day, you'll find you have a pretty well established product that you can begin to polish and learn from.  Then you take the lessons that you learnt from taking your terrible mess of one lines into the next game design and start the process again.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        I have a friend who is a script writer in the movie and TV industry.  Somebody once asked him how he became such a good writer and he looked at them confusedly and said "well I write a lot".  Same idea.  Want to be a game developer?  Sweet, develop some games.  And keep doing it.  Start with Hangman then Asteroids then go to PacMan then Mario then keep adding complexity and sophistication.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        On a final note actually, I want to semi-rant about this.  In the adult space I don't see anywhere near enough ideas of "sexy Hangman" or something extremely simple with an adult twist yet see a ton of clones of other games.  If you want to learn, you have to start with a tiny project, some that is realistic and that you can manage and complete to some level of actual polish.  Creating a 500,000 word Visual Novel with branching stories or God forbid "WoW but porn" is still far too common for beginners.  We've opened up the games industry by providing new people with the tools for them to start developing their ideas but we haven't opened up the basic fundamentals of learning that, which is to tell you that every single games programmer out there has built a shitty Pac Man clone or a shitty Mario rip off and having an incredibly small game focused on a single mechanic in no way limits your creativity or theming options.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Just do the work and keep doing it over and over and over.  That's the "trick" to doing anything.
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                     Thank you for taking the time to write/post this for myself and other developers.
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                     I believe anyone who goes from being a normal to joe to being special in the conversation has to go trough a process of changing their view on what they're meant to do and how they should view themselves. Like ecelebs who gain fame, lots of attention but no way to reply to them all or please them all and they have to somehow manage the incoming messages.
                     <br/>
                     Some people are bad at it and think everything is personal while some are better at filtering. Usually it goes "pay more attention to peers who have deeper understanding of things, ignore almost everything that comes from plebs".
                     <br/>
                     Gamers aren't game developers, they have no empathy or insight for the process of creation so they can't make informed comments on it.
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                     this is a long post so a TLDR would have been nice.... anyways from the gist of it i agree that comments have a lot of weight for a developer, there can be many supporters but also many trolls/haters sometimes more of the latter  than the former. And it hurts to get the messages which rejects your ideas and hardworks.
                     <b>
                      BUT
                     </b>
                     it is to be expected being a dev means not only to code or design a game its a test anywhere there is an idea there will be some kind of opnion on it no matter how trivial it is. However if you are passonate about your project are you gonna just leave because some stranger on the internet said that it was bad ... as long as there is even 1 person that supports you no matter who never think that what you are doing is in vain. What you do is what defines you no matter what never loose track of what you set out to create.
                     <br/>
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                       TLDR
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                     : Dont loose hope.  if there are hater for your game there will also be supporters for you.
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                        PS: if you revived any comments in your DM or in your Posts in this site if they are derogatory or specifically is targeted towards you please tell me or any staff members about it . If its just constructive criticisms on the game its okay but any targeted opnion or fights is never allowed
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                     One thing that helps is to weight the comment based on the knowledge and work that went into it.
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="4784" data-username="@dspeed" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/4784/">
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                     wrote a lengthy comment, showing that he understands the problem domain, and actually thought about it. As such I'd weight his comment quite highly; it's surely worth 50 "Fag dev tis game shit, gfx n0thg like CoD, go die in fire" throwaway comments by idiots.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The harder part is constructive criticism. What do you do if someone has clearly thought about the topic, clearly understands the problem domain, and still says your art sucks? Because that can happen. It should happen, in fact. Usually the first thing that happens is you (me) get angry or defensive; I sweated blood and tears for this render, it's fucking awesomeballz. So much better than my first render 3 weeks ago. But if you can set aside the ego, and actually read the comments, you'll see they're quite possibly right. Yeah; that hand IS clipping the cloth. My savegame system isn't as good as what people are used to. That girl sure did go straight from stand-offish to slavish, with no middle ground. And that's when you learn, and get better.
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                     Of course, sometimes no matter how well thought out, reasoned or argued a point, the other guy's still wrong. It's your game, you have a vision and a dream for it. Which is fine. But at least you should be able to justify WHY (at least to yourself) you think that's the right decision, and that thinking will make you a better developer, and the game better for it.
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                     Don't lose hope, just keep pushing. Good luck.
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                        baneini said:
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                        Some people are bad at it and think everything is personal while some are better at filtering. Usually it goes "pay more attention to peers who have deeper understanding of things, ignore almost everything that comes from plebs".
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                        Gamers aren't game developers, they have no empathy or insight for the process of creation so they can't make informed comments on it.
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                     They do have insight in the product itself by using it. If a coffee maker requires an engineering degree to get just the water to boil the design has at least some major flaws. Any consumer is entitled to comment on that flaw
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                     You might rethink using the word 'pleps'. Without them who would use your product? It shows a despite for an entire group that is actually supposed to be your target group. Unless you are developing for yourself that is
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                        They do have insight in the product itself by using it. If a coffee maker requires an engineering degree to get just the water to boil the design has at least some major flaws. Any consumer is entitled to comment on that flaw
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                     They know what they like, but consumers are notoriously bad at seeing beyond 'what is' into 'what will be'. So take it with a large grain of salt, and know that the earlier your product is in development, the harder it is for pure consumers to understand what you're trying to do. They tend to the get caught up in the place-holders and temp-art, and not see the underlying structure.
                     <br/>
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                     Prosumers,  expert consumers (they might be modders, tool-makers, fan-artists, hobbyists, or just that guy who's played every single HGame on Patreon and can pick which on it is from a single picture) are a lot more likely to give you constructive criticism at that point of the process, because they understand better where you are in the process. I'd also personally be really wary of opening up a product to a large audience before it was at least Alpha stage; yes you want the adrenaline rush of people playing your game and giving feedback, but ideally not at the cost of exposing a very early build to people who'll give you an overload of negative feedback.
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                        They know what they like, but consumers are notoriously bad at seeing beyond 'what is' into 'what will be'. So take it with a large grain of salt, and know that the earlier your product is in development, the harder it is for pure consumers to understand what you're trying to do. They tend to the get caught up in the place-holders and temp-art, and not see the underlying structure.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Prosumers,  expert consumers (they might be modders, tool-makers, fan-artists, hobbyists, or just that guy who's played every single HGame on Patreon and can pick which on it is from a single picture) are a lot more likely to give you constructive criticism at that point of the process, because they understand better where you are in the process. I'd also personally be really wary of opening up a product to a large audience before it was at least Alpha stage; yes you want the adrenaline rush of people playing your game and giving feedback, but ideally not at the cost of exposing a very early build to people who'll give you an overload of negative feedback.
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                     I dont disagree at all. Buuuut
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                     (You knew this was coming, right?)
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                     The situation you describe is self made. The consumer doesnt give a damn if you call it alpha, pre-release or whatever. They consume what IS. Which is why so many new developers fail, give up etc. There was a reason why established studios and software companies in general wouldnt release anything to anyone public before a certain product stage to begin with. Its actually the same with any producing company. The second you let your product into the hands of the 'common' consumer you have to deal with common comments. Failing to deliver something meaningful from a consumer perspective probably means you are too early out or your overall design has some major flaws. Going public with your stuff is like making a first impression at a date. You get only one chance to do it right. Maybe a second one if the date is gracious and really likes you. Which doesnt apply to product development. If the consumers like green and you have red you have to live with not pleasing that particular group.
                     <br/>
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                     Lately the funding via sites as Patreon etc has led to an influx of badly designed (if at all designed) quick shots (trying to stay polite). This entire discussion wouldnt even happen if that wasnt the case. I know tons of 'indie' developers who dont dare to put anything into the hands of consumers because they know how this would play out. They have closed groups who test and play around. As something in 'alpha' should be. The moment it goes into the hands of the public it becomes 'beta'. And lets be honest here: Most of the stuff we see here doesnt really deserve the name 'beta' yet. Even calling it 'alpha' for many things around here would be a far reach.
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                        I dont disagree at all. Buuuut
                        <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
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                     I don't think we disagree on this
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                     I've done a couple of Steam Early Access -&gt; launch games (non-porn) with the company I work for, and I certainly wouldn't advocate punting something out at pre-alpha stage.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I'm just saying that 1) consumers know what they like, but they struggle to articulate it, and to see beyond placeholders. 2) If you asked the customers in 1880 what kind of car they'd want, they'd tell you a faster horse that eats less. Once you're at open Alpha/EA, now getting consumers involved makes sense. The systems (basically) work, the tech is mostly stable, savegames don't destroy themselves, and most of the bugs and placeholder art has been weeded out. Now you can flag it for consumer behavior and likeability.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I think a lot of people look at teams like DS, and say "look, they put it out a full year before it was done/abandoned", and forget that even quite early it was a polished product with strong production values (just limited content). They were quite clear and clever in ring-fencing opportunities that would later become fleshed out (foreshadowing, often with cliff-hanger confrontations).  They basically treat it like a normal product launch. Which shows.
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                     The problem is both a lack or ignorance of definitions for things like 'alpha' , 'pre-relase' etc.
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                     Alpha, beta etc are terms coined in configuration management and became more or less a standard term especially in software development. Alpha stages where never ever meant to get anywhere near the public to begin with and no serious software company would ever do it. Handpicked people or closed and vetted groups - maybe. Just because i give it some fancy new wording doesnt actually makes most of the things anything more than what is considered a 'prototype' for most product developers.
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                     Early access is a much better wording and there is a good reason Steam used that wording: Its a consumer platform so it has to make sense for a consumer. But it still comes with the same traps and failures in the relationship between devs and customer.
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                     Depends a little on the company/style. The terms Alpha and Beta are certainly used relatively normally in Game Development (especially games with online components, where you need actual users to stress-test systems). So closed-alpha, alpha, closed-beta, beta, first release, OMFG we were not ready release, shit-is-finally-stable release.
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                     But a lot of people are launching tech-demos, and getting roasted. Which shouldn't surprise anyone, yet does.
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                     In regards to feedback, including from randoms. I think it was in this video, that he try to explain how to turn bad feedback into something you can use. For both sides of it. But the TL
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
                     R:
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                     Sometimes negativ feedback is badly formulated for reasons like language barriers, inability to point out exactly what is so bad etc
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                     Sometimes good feedback is less helpful, as you keep making the same mistakes, that will haunt you later.
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                     Sometimes idiots happen.
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                     You don't get better if you're not ready to get bumps.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="anne O'nymous · Mar 11, 2018 at 10:15 PM" data-lb-id="post-566681">
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                     Well, it's kind of the price to pay for F95 success. The more people come here, the more stupid brats you'll find to leave a negative/harsh comment regarding a game. Moderators try to limit this, but they can't be everywhere and can't always react to a simple "your game is shit"-like comment.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Usually I just keep my mouth shut when I think that a game is bad, simply because I know that my taste isn't universal. There's a game like this which started recently, one for which my opinion is really, "this is pure shit". The story mean nothing, the dialogs are worse than in the worse TV series of the 70's, and the images looks like 3D from the early 80's and give you headache... But taking a quick look at the thread, well, most people say about it that it's the best game they ever seen. So, who am I to say that it's the worse game I ever played ?
                     <br/>
                     But, as I'm not the symbol of universal taste, I'm neither the example of good manners. And I think that game developers need to toughen themselves. I know that it's not easy to see all these bad comments about your works ; I'm on the net since almost 20 years now, I've seen more of those regarding my own works, than I wanted to saw during my whole life. It hurt really bad sometimes, but it's part of the job. You can't have sincere comments without the bad ones. Read again what I said above, how a game I saw as the worse ever made, can be see by everyone else as the best game ever made ? It's just impossible, there should have, at least, people saying that it's an average game. So, how much the author of this game can trust the comments ? How many of these are just people lying to not discourage him ?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If, as game developer, you loose your motivation just because of some bad/harsh comments, isn't it because you haven't had enough motivation at start ? And if it's the case, should you really try to make a game ? It's not that you shouldn't at all, but finishing a game need a lot of motivation ; it's a long process, it will invade your life for months, if not years. There's days where you'll want to live for yourself but will have to works on your game because the deadline is near.
                     <br/>
                     If few bad comments are enough to take away all your motivation, are you ready to dedicate yourself this much to your game ? And if those bad comments are the majority, perhaps it's just because your game is really bad and that you shouldn't even have tried ? It can seem harsh to say this, but it's just the truth. We aren't all Leonardo Da Vinci or Pablo Picasso, why should we all be able to create an adult game ? I don't believe in participation trophies, because it's just bullshit and while you think that what you do is good, and so continue doing it, you don't try to find, then do, what you are really good for.
                     <br/>
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                        tooldev said:
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                        To deliver constructive criticism does not require to care about your game. I think you are wrong with that point.
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                     I agree with this. I sometimes commented on games I don't care about, just because, even if I don't like it, I saw few little things that can be improved to make it more enjoyable for people who like it. Comments and criticisms, especially the constructive ones, aren't always about caring, it can also be about helping.
                     <br/>
                     I see a bug while trying a game, I report it, whatever my own opinion regarding the said game. Why should I not do it ? Whatever it's a good game or not, someone took on his own free time to make it, the least I can do is taking few minutes of mine to report what I found.
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                     Hello!
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                     So I've read through some of the comments here and I figured I'll outline my experience.
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                     Even though I'm a fairly new developer(my first public release was December 5th of last year) I've had my fair share of negative comments. This was not unexpected, I know I'm not a game developer per say.
                     <br/>
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                     Generally speaking most criticism is based in opinion rather than fact. This makes it a lot easier for me to handle because I know what I like and that's what I set out to make in the first place. So having someone criticize my taste is just a conflict of interest rather than something more objective.
                     <br/>
                     The stuff that's harder to swallow for me is usually when there is some truth to what the person is saying but it is in conflicts with what was originally intended. These are the more objective types of criticism and they are probably the ones that have kept me awake more than anything else.
                     <br/>
                     There there's the people who don't understand what you made or have problems with core elements of the game, these are pretty harsh sometimes but they also generally fall under opinion rather than fact.
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                     All in all criticism is often very valuable, especially for someone like me, who is still learning. Still sucks sometimes though and has had me feeling quite shitty, often because I blame myself.
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                        Boomatica said:
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                        Constructive Criticism
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                     is all that matters if negative, positive or in between it is the one thing I myself value while it opens the eyes for something one might have missed and can be worked on to improve the game...
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                        Boomatica said:
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                        negative comment
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                     as in something like "this game sucks" without reasons or arguments as to why...
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                        Fasder said:
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                        most criticism based in opinion
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                     ...that kind...
                     <br/>
                     well...that might sound a little harsh but I couldn't give a f... about them and anyone who does should rethink reading comments at all...most people tent to let others way to easily under there skin...if you go public you have to realize that intelligence isn't equally distributed...as is self-esteem and the once that have little of either tend to write bullshit every once in awhile...let them but do ignore them and perhaps if you can take it for the joke it is and smile...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The one comment that is kind of a bother at least to the thread nobody mentioned yet...the follow up post...
                     <br/>
                     if a user does not read or cares about what has been written countless times already...hell I've gone so far as to delete a thread and start anew only to receive the same bullocks I know all too well by the same users in record time...the outcome... in order to read something meaningful  I have to stroll through a ton of "I just said the same thing as the guy before me" kinda comments.
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                        anne O'nymous said:
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                        I know that my taste isn't universal.
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                     ...true words given my personal preference in games I am glad I think alike only problem being not enough games for my kinda taste but well at least this way I get some work done...:closedeyesmile:
                     <br/>
                     Concerning motivation two sources spring to mind...number 1... passionate players that try out every branch have input and insights that keep pushing development in all sorts of ways and number 2 fun and fulfillment doing it...and yeah it helps if you keep your aspirations in check...a 20k goal right from the start of your patreon campaign is laughable at best turning this into a profession that pays the monthly bill might be a cool dream to some ( it's risky man don't go there
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                        anschwww said:
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                        u will never change this kids, so.... ignore them.
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                     Pretty much this on the matter. Though, still going to add my few cents to it.
                     <br/>
                     Speaking more from getting critique about draws (though, I will get some negative comments on my game, matter of time).
                     <br/>
                     What I often see are circles of self-jerking and cumming on each other with just positive responses. This can be even more dangerous, because at the point where someone will say "it's shit", shock itself will be bigger than what it should be. You can't please everyone, it's not possible. If you can't take in negative comments, don't go "public", life isn't just cuddles and butterflies.
                     <br/>
                     Also, there is a good reason why people focus more on one or two negative comments instead of positive ones. If someone dropped his project because few people said it's shit, then that person never trusted in their skills and what they created. Harsh, I know, but world is harsh.
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                        <b>
                         I guess what I'm trying to say is :
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        Before you post something on a developers page/thread take the time to think about what you're actually about to post.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        You can either post a: "
                        <b>
                         negative comment
                        </b>
                        "
                        <br/>
                        Which let's face it, it doesn't help anyone and is kinda pointless to post unless you're actually someone that just wants to make someone feel bad.
                        <br/>
                        <span style="font-size: 10px">
                         <b>
                          (Which to be very very blunt, makes you a horrible person)
                         </b>
                        </span>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Or you can post: "
                        <b>
                         Constructive Criticism"
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        The game you're posting about may, in fact, be terrible, but instead of just pointing that out how about letting the developer know what is making the game a terrible experience for you so they can try and fix it and improve their game/skill set.
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                     Or you can do whatever you want, write what you want. Don't police people on the Internet, they hate it. If something is shit in someone's opinion, then that's their opinion. Maybe it's not constructive, maybe it's just them saying "I don't like it and just want to express that I didn't like it".
                     <br/>
                     How about that? You will ask people to not write at all if they want to be jerks? I don't need a crystal ball to know how it will go.
                     <br/>
                     Also, that makes them a horrible person? Newsflash: I can bet that they don't give a damn. Some will even take a pride in it.
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                        <b>
                         My advice to new developers:
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        As hard as it may be starting out dealing with "negative comments" you need to remember one thing, You can only improve going forward.
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                     Or how I like to say it: Stop crying in a corner and get a thicker skin.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Seriously, that's what I often see around people who are drawing. Few mean comments and they are burning everything and cutting their hand off to never draw again. Here, have a saw, it will be faster.
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                     Negative comments are never great (thankyou captain obvious) but they are going to happen whether we want them to or not.
                     <br/>
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                     You put yourself out there and you run the risk of people not liking what you do.
                     <br/>
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                     In porn we all have different tastes.
                     <br/>
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                     There are genre's I despise and there are those I enjoy. I do avoid those I hate but occasionally a game i've been playing has added something in after months of saying it won't be there and I have voiced my displeasure.
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                     It's very rare I will tell someone their work is outright shit and only then if i've got into a debate with said creator and they think their shit doesn't stink.
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                     I know it's easier said than done but you need a thick skin. We're on the internet with people from all walks of life and you have put your work in front of them and said "here it is folks, judge me" and they will for good or bad.
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                        Yoshiiki said:
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                        Or you can do whatever you want, write what you want. Don't police people on the Internet, they hate it. If something is shit in someone's opinion, then that's their opinion. Maybe it's not constructive, maybe it's just them saying "I don't like it and just want to express that I didn't like it".
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                        How about that? You will ask people to not write at all if they want to be jerks? I don't need a crystal ball to know how it will go.
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                        Also, that makes them a horrible person? Newsflash: I can bet that they don't give a damn. Some will even take a pride in it.
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                     There are several different genre of adult games.  You can't please them all.
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                     Make a game that YOU like, and fans will find you.
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                     If you try to make a game with 20 different fetishes all rolled into one, some of your fans are going to hate it.
                     <br/>
                     -if you don't like it, don't put it in your game.
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                     Some may like their favorite part enough to forgive you, but not all.
                     <br/>
                     If someone takes the time to give a detailed hate-mail, it means they like your game, but they don't like one part of it, this is good feedback.
                     <br/>
                     If someone simply says "your game sucks" Ignore them.
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                     If you like your game, and you keep working on it, your fans will follow you through hell.   If you hate what you're doing it will show in your work, and critics will watch you burn.
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                     When you're starting out, building a fanbase is important.
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                     Know the difference between fans and patrons, NEVER sell-out your fans.  That quick $20 or 100 can cost you thousands in the long run.
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                     Just stealth install data miners for any negative comment usernames. It really helps with the motivation I found.
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                     - hire someone to read and reply for you
                     <br/>
                     - step away for a break
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Notice youtubers who become famous and then take a break? And most people think - how can you walk away from everything I wish I had! Again it's so simple.. No one can understand fame, true fame, until famous.
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                        Boomatica said:
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                     Now you got me confused. Either this is some deep meaning crap, or...
                     <br/>
                     You are doing exactly what I wrote, pretty much proving my point and shitting all over your own ideas. I really do hope it's the latter.
                     <br/>
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                      &gt;inb4 but this isn't a critique so it doesn't count.
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                        Hentami said:
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                            @Boomatica
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                            Love your post!
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                        <br/>
                        Just stealth install data miners for any negative comment usernames. It really helps with the motivation I found.
                        <br/>
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                         /winks
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                     Oh boy, I would prefer all of this to be just sarcasm, but something tells me it's not and there is some salt in it.
                     <br/>
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                        Hentami said:
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                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
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                        What anyone should do when it gets too much
                        <br/>
                        - stop reading all comments
                        <br/>
                        - hire someone to read and reply for you
                        <br/>
                        - step away for a break
                       </div>
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                     Here is my version when it gets too much:
                     <br/>
                     - Stop sitting and reading comments all day and go back to creating.
                     <br/>
                     Unless you are some big studio, focused only on money making, you don't need to put a wall between yourself and people. That's a really bad advice.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     EDIT:
                     <br/>
                     Oh right, there is one more thing to all of that. Let me flip that table so we can have a different perspective. So negative comments are bad because they lack constructive criticism? Well, by that standard positive comments "I liked it" are as bad because of the same thing. "But they are positive so it's fine", no, that's what we call a double standard.
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                      .
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                        Oh right, there is one more thing to all of that. Let me flip that table so we can have a different perspective. So negative comments are bad because they lack constructive criticism? Well, by that standard positive comments "I liked it" are as bad because of the same thing. "But they are positive so it's fine", no, that's what we call a double standard.
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                     That's an extremely good point.
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                    Make better games.
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                    Make games better.
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                        Oh right, there is one more thing to all of that. Let me flip that table so we can have a different perspective. So negative comments are bad because they lack constructive criticism? Well, by that standard positive comments "I liked it" are as bad because of the same thing. "But they are positive so it's fine", no, that's what we call a double standard.
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                     Not at all; they're both low-information content replies, but one is pleasant and the other is not. Getting told "your game sucks" vs "your game is ace" are both not giving you information, but one gives you a warm fuzzy glow and the other does not. What CAN make negative feedback worthwhile, despite the emotional knockback, is if it's constructive ("your game sucks" vs "you really need to fix the lighting; right now everything looks really flat". So it's not really a line, it's a continuum along two axes (content&lt;&gt;empty, positive&lt;&gt;negative), where empty negative comments are much too common, and feel like they've got impact. We both agree that learning to ignore that feedback is the best way.
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                        Not at all; they're both low-information content replies, but one is pleasant and the other is not. Getting told "your game sucks" vs "your game is ace" are both not giving you information, but one gives you a warm fuzzy glow and the other does not. What CAN make negative feedback worthwhile, despite the emotional knockback, is if it's constructive ("your game sucks" vs "you really need to fix the lighting; right now everything looks really flat". So it's not really a line, it's a continuum along two axes (content&lt;&gt;empty, positive&lt;&gt;negative), where empty negative comments are much too common, and feel like they've got impact. We both agree that learning to ignore that feedback is the best way.
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                     Yes, we both agree on the fact that having a thicker skin is needed.
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                     But here is the thing where it all comes down to: One gives you negative feeling other positive feeling. Yeah, with big point on the word "feeling". So you get positive but empty comments and it makes you feel nice, yeah, fine, good for you. Then someone drops a mean comment and it's all about "muh feelings are hurt". Makes me want to laugh. Dunno, maybe it's because I'm a guy and feelings aren't exactly my specialization, but it just seem... weak? If someone can cripple you with few negative comments, then why the heck you went out there? What else can cripple you so easily?
                     <br/>
                     Seriously, a lot of people try to be way too nice and get same thing back, so they have this fogged view of reality. Then they go on the Internet, where people show their true colors, because muh anonymity and suddenly reality hits them so hard, they fall down and cry. So you either stand back up, wipe those tears and don't let be kicked around... or you keep laying down while getting abused until you break.
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                     I'm honestly not certain assholes being assholes online because 'muh anonymity' is 'reality'. It's just assholes being assholes without the risk of someone punching them in the face. It just makes them cowardly assholes.
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                     So ignore them, move on. They've got nothing useful to contribute.
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                     Oh no, it's actually a thing. People are way more open in expressing their true self on the web when they engage in a talk or comment or something. The more anonymity you give them, more honest expression you will get. You can see that on imageboards constantly. While almost non existing lack of social cues may seem like everyone is angry, sometimes it may just be a negative opinion. There is a huge difference when someone is thinking "this movie is shit" and then goes out of cinema and someone screaming "This movie is shit!" and going out of cinema.
                     <br/>
                     Sure, it's already different at the point where you have avatar assigned to you online, that's when you start toning down.
                     <br/>
                     Here is another funny thing, a lot of times people that want to throw punches as their comment indicates, actually can't throw them. Then it often goes into "yeah? I can do this, that and other shit I came up with" and other personal attacks. It's just as low as the assholes making asshole comments, because they know they can hide behind the web and say whatever. Same thing, different side.
                     <br/>
                     Anyway, solution to the issue is simple and repeated so many times, it's going nowhere at this point.
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                     And as much as I like some good shitposting that comes after that, I will rather sit back and check if there is a new, more valid argument (which I doubt, but who knows?)
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="V.A. Laurie · Mar 12, 2018 at 10:52 PM" data-lb-id="post-569281">
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                        Not meaning to sound too snappy here. But a developer isnt necessarily a good product manager (in fact most are not). The game discussion threads require a different attitude than the one a developer usually has. As a developer you should deal with designs, code, mechanics and when consumers think something is bad your developer brain immediately sees the implications on a development level and you feel like they call you a bad developer now . Which they are not. They simply see something isnt as they like to have it in the product or something is really not working out for them.
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                     I agree here. Being a developer does not suddenly make one an expert on project management. This is a learned skill. I've looked out to the internet in the past to find help with this for projects I have done and I found this one company, Check Tech i think it was called, that helped me once before. They are a team, or maybe just one dude, who helps developers with the project management side of things. Having that little bit of help just in terms of planning, scheduling, prioritizing, etc, really helps developers in the early stages of work. I know that a lot of the people here can't afford to hire a team, and luckily for me, Check Tech didn't charge me anything at first. They advertise that they charge, but they ended up working pro bono, probably just to help their own experience.
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                        Specifically if we want to get down to it, new developers have extremely unrealistic goals regarding their time, their ability and the length that of time that it will take to create something. On the old cprogramming.com boards this used to manifest itself with about 20 posts a week, usually with terrible grammar, telling people that they're a brand new developer and they're highly experienced in playing WoW but they know the one or two things wrong with it so they're going to make the next WoW and they want people to join them. "Like WoW, but..." was a common phrase used by beginner developers.
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                     I definitely agree with that. I see a lot of people here with truly ambitious goals. "Every single choice you make changes the entire story!" - Like, that's a great idea, and I would love to see it, but the amount of planning that takes to ensure that you are planning out the story ahead of time for each of those options and how they will all interact in the future is a
                     <b>
                      <i>
                       lot
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                     of work. I write as a profession, and even I wouldn't dare try to say that "every choice" in my games has an impactful result. It's unrealistic to say that, if you are working on the story each month while you develop the graphics, code, etc. If you
                     <i>
                      truly
                     </i>
                     want every choice presented to make a big difference in the story and gameplay, you need to plan that story out months and months in advance. There is no other way.
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                        They know what they like, but consumers are notoriously bad at seeing beyond 'what is' into 'what will be'.
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                     My god this is so true. For example, both of the games I am writing had parts end with events that were polarizing to the consumers. In fact, with Freeloading Family, people are still saying the game will be NTR, even though I am telling them straight up it isn't (but this partly comes down to your definition of NTR, i guess... but i stand by my statement. it isn't.) -- They see the one scene that is available because the update is over, and then instead of waiting to see what comes next, they become overwhelmed with assumptions. I cannot blame them, but I can say that it has caused a lot of devs (even some I work/worked with) to question their own game, or my ability to tell the story we are working on. The comments section here, when negative,
                     <i>
                      does
                     </i>
                     affect the devs.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I have been writing long enough to know that sometimes you need to push forward through the negative comments to continue down the path you have set. New Life With My Daughter is an example there - People called NTR because of the ending I had to write (tl;dr: i was given images without context when i took over as the writer, and people were upset about it, but i did not choose the images, i simply had to incorporate them... since then i was able to prove to everyone that it's not NTR, and was instead only a plot device). There are devs who, in the face of negative comments definitely quit. I am not one of them. I continued on, and the game is back on track now.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I used this analogy with FFCreations recently while we were discussing the response to a recent update: When watching a movie, do you get mad at the hero 15 minutes in for not solving the problem? Probably not. You wait, you watch, you see where the story goes, and at the end, once it's all done, then you probably make your opinions. - The game isn't over if it's still updating.  This analogy may not work with everyone or every game, but if you are writing a game and someone complains that something is happening in a way they wouldn't want it to, or a way they don't like... don't give up. All that is, that kind of comment, is someone giving an opinion when they don't know what will happen yet.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Personally, I think that when it comes to Criticism, the most constructive kind, whether it's good or bad, is the kind that takes the form of reactions, thoughts, and feelings while playing. This has been said already in here, but I'm just putting my two cents in - If someone plays my games and says "when I saw X happen, it made me worry about what will happen next," is
                     <i>
                      <b>
                       far superior
                      </b>
                     </i>
                     to "X happened, now that game is ruined." -- Both have the feelings of the player, but the second version can make a new dev think, "oh man, i fucked up!" -- especially if others are saying similar things.
                     <br/>
                     It doesn't have to mean that you've fucked up, though. It means that someone/some people do not like what they played. I am a firm believer in sticking to your plan. People will always find reasons to be upset, and nothing will please every person, so stick to your plan, build the game you want, and most of all, complete it!
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                     I don't know about other people but I tone it down a hell of a lot online. Forums like to ban people, I don't have that problem in life.
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                     My wife hates going shopping with me because I tend to shout at those fuckwits that stop in the middle of the aisle for a conversation when there is plenty of room at either end of said aisle.
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                     On the other side of that coin I like to hang around on forums which means getting along as well as possible with people on those forums.
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                     I'm happy to see people have taken the time to the write and explain their views on this subject.
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                     I know it's opened my eyes regarding a couple of things and helped me see the point of view from other peoples perspectives.
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                     So thank you to all of you that have taken the time to reply to this thread.
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                     Not just for me but for other people as well.
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                        I agree here. Being a developer does not suddenly make one an expert on project management. This is a learned skill. I've looked out to the internet in the past to find help with this for projects I have done and I found this one company, Check Tech i think it was called, that helped me once before. They are a team, or maybe just one dude, who helps developers with the project management side of things. Having that little bit of help just in terms of planning, scheduling, prioritizing, etc, really helps developers in the early stages of work. I know that a lot of the people here can't afford to hire a team, and luckily for me, Check Tech didn't charge me anything at first. They advertise that they charge, but they ended up working pro bono, probably just to help their own experience.
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                     I was lucky enough to do a module on Project Management for 3 years during my degree and I can't stress how much this has not only helped me work but also how much ahead it puts you from the bedroom programmers.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Gantt charts, Work Breakdown Structures, PERT charts with critical path analysis - all of these are an incredible help when developing an indie project and they force you to really think out your design properly.  Not only that but as somebody who thrives under a schedule and works best towards a goal, they focus my energies on the things that need to be focused on.  I can tell you right now what work I'll be doing on March 29th, or May 3rd, or July 16th.  That's a really big help as otherwise you lose days just wondering what the hell it is you're supposed to be doing next or worse, you increase scope and start bloating the project with your latest Eureka moment.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In fact having a loose education in Project Management, maybe just by looking up the three things I posted above and having a Google/Youtube on them to understand what they are, is possibly the best advice I've ever heard anybody give to new developers.  Hell, just Wiki-reading PMBOK and learning how to properly define project scope is a 10 minute job but a massive gain in the chances of completing your product.
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                        I was lucky enough to do a module on Project Management for 3 years during my degree and I can't stress how much this has not only helped me work but also how much ahead it puts you from the bedroom programmers.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Gantt charts, Work Breakdown Structures, PERT charts with critical path analysis - all of these are an incredible help when developing an indie project and they force you to really think out your design properly.  Not only that but as somebody who thrives under a schedule and works best towards a goal, they focus my energies on the things that need to be focused on.  I can tell you right now what work I'll be doing on March 29th, or May 3rd, or July 16th.  That's a really big help as otherwise you lose days just wondering what the hell it is you're supposed to be doing next or worse, you increase scope and start bloating the project with your latest Eureka moment.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        In fact having a loose education in Project Management, maybe just by looking up the three things I posted above and having a Google/Youtube on them to understand what they are, is possibly the best advice I've ever heard anybody give to new developers.  Hell, just Wiki-reading PMBOK and learning how to properly define project scope is a 10 minute job but a massive gain in the chances of completing your product.
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                     I can't remember where I mentioned lack of this as an issue, but this and thousand times this. Even most basic form of project management is better than being chaotic. Sure, maybe it doesn't have to do anything with topic on hand, but whoever plans on making anything more complicated than a toothpick, start learning on how to plan ahead.
                     <br/>
                     Same goes for dev teams, even more as a must. Choose a leader to coordinate everything, have everything under unified form, so it's just a quick look at information and not going through tons of files in random form each member likes.
                     <br/>
                     And don't assume that it's not problem because "my project is small", it still applies.
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                     For latest release of my game, check
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                     IMO is a matter of perspectives.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Some of the works and stories out there are far more offensive than someone spitting on your face, appeals to the sheep and masochists I guess, is just that some people feel like spitting back. :tf:
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Some day I will post the game I'm working on and I'm sure many people will try to come and hit me back for some of my comments. It will happen. XD
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Some people actually try to make a living out of this kind of games, or at least some money to pay for bills, and they come with second, third or, ninth accounts to make extreme comments. That helps them to keep competition in check, or they brag about how they can make it better.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In my case is more like me saying "Are you flocking out of your mind!? That is flocking repulsive!" about something I really don't like. :test3:
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                     Some people voice their opinions, some people are posers with second intentions... just saying.
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                        Some of the works and stories out there are far more offensive than someone spitting on your face
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                     Every adult game ever made offends someone somewhere.
                     <br/>
                     In the world of 3D art, offensive has been the majority for over 20 years.  Only recently have we started to see plain ordinary romantic missionary sex for purposes of procreation 3D games.   3D has been dominated by fantasy, monsters, elves, grotesque...  because anything is possible in 3D (not to exclude 2D)   Imaginations can go anywhere in 3D...  things you can't do in real-life.   If you prefer realism, go watch porn.
                     <br/>
                     If everything is clear in the description (no surprise trans gender, gay, NTR, etc.) and the game is tagged properly, it shouldn't bother anyone.   If you didn't read the description, and you don't like the game, because it contains content that you don't like, which was clearly tagged... you can only blame yourself.
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                     Sure, a lot of things in games are gross.  Half the fun is being able to do these things in a game, because we can't or aren't allowed to do it in reality.
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                     LMAO
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                     And you and me and a guy that delivers my mail. We are all in this together.
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                     Make the game that YOU want to make,Grow a pair and shrug off the negative comments. People will always like or dislike what you're working on,Deal with it.
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                        Yoshiiki said:
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                        And you and me and a guy that delivers my mail. We are all in this together.
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                        Sounds negative to me without proper critique. Think twice before you write anything.
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                        Yes, this is sarcasm.
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                     So the OP is sadly saying "please be kind to me that doesn't help me" and/or "please be kind to them, their feelings are hurt and they lost motivation because of it"... that is not gonna happen, people will say what they feel like saying, or typing in this case, specially if people is mad about some abrupt change in a game, a demented, silly, or childish plot, or any other reason.
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                     Grow a backbone, you feeling upset about comments is not change the way people express themselves.
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                     I am both a "failed" game developer and project manager. My dream was to be a video game producer.I spent around 4 years in college building games and learning the business aspects of things. I've met several professional devs,attended GDC, visited studios, and I even have my name on a AAA game.
                     <br/>
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                     The reason why I state this is because over the years I've learned a great deal about being a game dev.
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                     Obviously negativity isn't fun or easy to deal with, since in the back of your head you think, "what if they're right."
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                     However, people criticize (including myself) because something is not meeting their expectations.
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                     I get that a comment like "this is shit" isn't helpful because it doesn't directly identify a grievance.
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                     Sadly though, it isn't the consumers job or obligation to constructively criticize your work, it's yours.
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                     Ultimately, what matters most is your own (and team's) commitment to the project and a willingness to grow,learn,and improve.
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                     Personally I quit due to the fact that I realized I wasn't good at it and saw very little actual improvement.
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                     Just my opinion and perhaps it helps a bit.
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                     Extreme negativity in comments can be soul crushing.  It would be nice if everyone would be constructive with their criticism, but we all know that it is an unrealistic expectation.  I think it is absolutely necessary for developers to harden their hearts somewhat. They need to expect at least some negativity, even if wholly unjust, and develop a thick skin to overcome it or they will be crushed by despair and end up giving up before they have even reached their full potential.
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                     At worst ... ask yourself the following question: Do you produce a game for everyone to like or produce a game so that at least one person likes it?
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                        I'm pretty sure if your parents called you a "little piece of worthless shit" on the daily, that might make you feel kind of bad. Even if they didn't throw rocks at you. If your significant other called you a "waste of human life" daily, it might be upsetting. Even if they didn't throw rocks. If your boss called you a "fucking idiot" in front of everyone, even just once, but they didn't throw sticks or rocks at you, it might still make you feel like shit. Or not, I guess. Because words don't actually hurt at all.
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                     Oh boy, I can already tell I will upset a lot of people, but whatever.
                     <br/>
                     Bad parents, leave or find means to leave, longer it takes for you to realize that, longer you will have to deal with it.
                     <br/>
                     Oh yeah, that sure is a great "significant" other, don't be stupid, this relationship is pointless.
                     <br/>
                     Great boss, call him piece of fucking shit and move on.
                     <br/>
                     <u>
                      What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.
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                     <br/>
                     Yeah, even though you were sarcastic there, words don't hurt, I have yet to see a case when after saying something someone got beaten up by an air coming out of mouth.
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                      But you don't understand, those hurt feelings!
                     </i>
                     Oh, for fuck's sake... From what I am seeing, most devs are men, so man the fuck up. I have no idea what's with this feelings that, feelings this while instead of being surrounded by women to say that, all I see are dicks. Life is tough, that sack between your legs isn't to tickle it for fun, it means you have to act like a man. You want to get something in life? Good, successful people are strong mentally. You want to fight back mean comments? Fine. You have enough mental strength to just ignore useless crap? Good. You want to cry? Get the fuck out.
                     <br/>
                     This whole issue is just cringy and stupid.
                     <br/>
                     <i>
                      How could you say that?! Not every guy needs to act like that! Some have feelings and you just hurt them!
                     </i>
                     Good. Not a damn given.
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                       Using NTLEAS
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                        I'd actually deleted my post before you finished writing your reply, but I guess you both saw it first. I deleted it because I realized it was a waste of time. Also, I'm not a man, so I don't really get the need to "act like one" as you so helpfully point out several times.
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                        I'm sorry but you truly come across as someone who is hurting badly inside. Your words betray you, and I hope you can find peace in your life some day. Until then, take care.
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                     Well, if you think your own opinions are a waste of time, then I am not going to stop you.
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                     Great, online therapy. Thanks but no thanks. Though... it seems there is a group that may need some counseling after some mean words. But apparently it's not some huge issue of mass attacks, but few people being angry and not letting go while it seems that some other people never been criticized in whatever form and can't handle it.
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                     I'm a man and I agree with
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                     's point.
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                     - You are fond of saying "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger." It is only true in specific circumstances. It cannot be a blanket statement. Case in point- a man is shot with a bullet and he survived. BUT- he now has torn muscles and scar tissue. Of course, that didn't make him physically stronger.
                     <br/>
                     Same thing with words. You can tell yourself that "You're stronger than that" but you're forgetting something. Words have a lasting effect, too. I'm a son, a brother, a father, and a friend to many. I wouldn't be a good father, son, or friend if I didn't notice and try to to understand the words they have to hear. I couldn't tell you how many times I've had to sit and listen to voices processing emotions roiled by words. But by them learning the ability to accept and process their emotions as a result of words or pain, they learn to become stronger. Even after the strength is gained, the words will come back to haunt you again.
                     <b>
                      Physical pain is often temporary, words are not.
                     </b>
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                     You're still in this thread trying to prove a point. This shows that our words, our letters, and our sentences are having an effect on you whereas you feel the need to constantly prove a "manly" point. Sometimes, being a stronger man is to admit your weaknesses, your failures, and open the soul to wounding because you're strong enough to take it. And may I suggest not attacking girls? They have the physical fortitude to go through childbirth, have no issues cleaning up blood, and have the mental toughness to deal with much more backbiting on a daily basis then most men see in their lives. Just a heads up.
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                     This is going slightly offtopic.
                     <br/>
                     <blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote">
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                        I'm a man and I agree with
                        <a class="username" data-user-id="488191" data-username="@redcherry" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/488191/">
                         @redcherry
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                        's point.
                        <br/>
                        <a class="username" data-user-id="284714" data-username="@Yoshiiki" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/284714/">
                         @Yoshiiki
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                        - You are fond of saying "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger." It is only true in specific circumstances. It cannot be a blanket statement. Case in point- a man is shot with a bullet and he survived. BUT- he now has torn muscles and scar tissue. Of course, that didn't make him physically stronger.
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                     Great point, cool story, but we are talking about words (and feelings it seems), I would call it quite specific circumstance. It's quite obvious from context and literally said more than once. Let's get to actual "point" which is after this part.
                     <br/>
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                        Same thing with words.
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                     Words aren't projectiles, so no.
                     <br/>
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                        You can tell yourself that "You're stronger than that" but you're forgetting something. Words have a lasting effect, too. I'm a son, a brother, a father, and a friend to many. I wouldn't be a good father, son, or friend if I didn't notice and try to to understand the words they have to hear. I couldn't tell you how many times I've had to sit and listen to voices processing emotions roiled by words. But by them learning the ability to accept and process their emotions as a result of words or pain, they learn to become stronger. Even after the strength is gained, the words will come back to haunt you again.
                        <b>
                         Physical pain is often temporary, words are not.
                        </b>
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                     That's a lot of extra for one sentence. Well, since you went with that bullet example, let me do the same. No, words are temporary and language is constantly changing. Some words will become archaic and not used anymore, some will change meaning, some new words will show up. Rapid Internet era already accomplished a lot in this topic.
                     <br/>
                     According to what you say, I should have been hunted for decades. I don't see it.
                     <br/>
                     Words can get to you if you let them, it's all in person's head. If we get overly emotional with everything that everyone says, we end up in paranoid society that lies to themselves to not hurt other people's feelings. I would rather shoot myself in the head than be part of that. Luckily, that won't be the case.
                     <br/>
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                        You're still in this thread trying to prove a point.
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                     There was never a point to be proven. Most of this thread is just pure arguing that is not going anywhere. Mostly pointing fingers left and right. Doubt it will achieve anything, but it's fun as heck.
                     <br/>
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                        muttdoggy said:
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                        This shows that our words, our letters, and our sentences are having an effect on you whereas you feel the need to constantly prove a "manly" point.
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                     Again, what's with the "feel"? Yeah, generally if it's a banter/discussion/arguing then some response is expected. I THINK it's how it normally goes.
                     <br/>
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                        Sometimes, being a stronger man is to admit your weaknesses, your failures, and open the soul to wounding because you're strong enough to take it.
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                     My soul said it's not masochistic enough to get wounded without a fight, so it seems I am screwed.
                     <br/>
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                        muttdoggy said:
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                        And may I suggest not attacking girls?
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                     And may I suggest not lying? And to be honest, I was waiting for someone to come up with it. But please, show me that "attack" without forcing things. I bet this will be good.
                     <br/>
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                        They have the physical fortitude to go through childbirth, have no issues cleaning up blood, and have the mental toughness to deal with much more backbiting on a daily basis then most men see in their lives. Just a heads up.
                        <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                     Oh, wow, thanks for the advice! I never knew! But I think I will manage, maybe let some of that wounding of my soul to ease things up.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Some angry mod will ban me over this. You are preaching a lot but not making much of an argument. It's not that hard to do, trust me, it also is generally pointless. I think it has to do something with replying to a girl and having a moral high ground.
                     <br/>
                     Where is that constructive criticism?
                     <br/>
                     If you want some offtopic and have philosophical talk, you can send me a PM. I swear, polywog posting just images brings more to the table than whatever this was.
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                     Trolling is not an art. It's shitty people doing shitty things for... lols. Or just because they're sad human beings. While this is not really any better or more progressive, and probably is also seen as "pointing fingers" - there is something to the remarks about constructive critisism, though. Blasting out "your game sucks" is... of no use for anybody. Yes, the game might suck, but a blanket statement like that doesn't help the developer to better it.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Nor does it help the person uttering it - unless that person is in some need of asserting himself on the behest of others.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Constructive critisism, however, can help - and if you cannot provide it, why not just shut up about it?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Especially on a forum like this, where "noone" pays anything for anything. Getting stuff for free, and then shooting it down because you, for some reason, feels you have wasted your time, or whatever else, is stupid and unproductive.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If you have paid for a product, you might have a small reason to complain - the price of most games / support pledges, however, means you're paying less money for a game than what most Steam-games cost, or the same as a cheap McD-burger. It's not the end of the world to lose a few dollars, seriously.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     While it's fine to wanna lash out when you feel wronged, feeling wronged because you played something that didn't live up to your expectations is... well, this is where the real snowflakes comes into play. Just delete the game from the harddrive, and forget about it.
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                        Trolling is not an art. It's shitty people doing shitty things for... lols. Or just because they're sad human beings. While this is not really any better or more progressive, and probably is also seen as "pointing fingers" - there is something to the remarks about constructive critisism, though. Blasting out "your game sucks" is... of no use for anybody. Yes, the game might suck, but a blanket statement like that doesn't help the developer to better it.
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                     Stop being salty and mixing angry people with trolls. One of those don't enjoy fucking with people for fun. Also, trolls usually don't bother with level headed people, because lack of autistic reaction is boring.
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                        Nor does it help the person uttering it - unless that person is in some need of asserting himself on the behest of others.
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                     So... What you and me are doing here right now?
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                        Constructive critisism, however, can help - and if you cannot provide it, why not just shut up about it?
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                     Why not just shut up about whining? Really not that hard.
                     <br/>
                     You can ask people to leave only constructive comments (and positive ones, because come on, don't bullshit me on that) . What about those that don't give a fuck? Enforcing them? Good luck, it won't backfire at all.
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                        Especially on a forum like this, where "noone" pays anything for anything. Getting stuff for free, and then shooting it down because you, for some reason, feels you have wasted your time, or whatever else, is stupid and unproductive.
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                     Aww, this is where it hurts. People shaming bad games and not paying for it. Don't say bad things and gib monies. Also, not pointed at you, because no idea about your game. You can however take it personally if you want
                     <img alt=":p" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite673" data-shortname=":p" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Stick out tongue    :p"/>
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                        If you have paid for a product, you might have a small reason to complain - the price of most games / support pledges, however, means you're paying less money for a game than what most Steam-games cost, or the same as a cheap McD-burger. It's not the end of the world to lose a few dollars, seriously.
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                     Bullshit. It's most of the time: pay $5-$10 to get access to latest version, then development goes for years and apparently, you are paying $60 after one year. Sounds like AAA game price to me. Or teasing supporters to give bigger pledge so they don't have to wait month or a week or whatever. And a lot of time content is scarce only to post something once a month so cows don't go away. No wonder people prefer to pirate when devs use obvious methods to milk as much as possible, like a fucking scammers.  So yeah, fuck off with that.
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                        While it's fine to wanna lash out when you feel wronged, feeling wronged because you played something that didn't live up to your expectations is... well, this is where the real snowflakes comes into play. Just delete the game from the harddrive, and forget about it.
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                     Fuck that advice, go and complain.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Studio Errilhl · Mar 17, 2018 at 10:22 AM" data-lb-id="post-580431">
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                        Yoshiiki said:
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                        Stop being salty and mixing angry people with trolls. One of those don't enjoy fucking with people for fun. Also, trolls usually don't bother with level headed people, because lack of autistic reaction is boring.
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                     You're not an angry person (or, well, you might be that as well), you're at least very close to a troll. You're arguing just for the sake of argument, and (further down) you're also being rude and crass just for the sake of being rude or crass.
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                        So... What you and me are doing here right now?
                        <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                     To some extent, yes.
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                        Why not just shut up about whining? Really not that hard.
                        <br/>
                        You can ask people to leave only constructive comments (and positive ones, because come on, don't bullshit me on that) . What about those that don't give a fuck? Enforcing them? Good luck, it won't backfire at all.
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                     Those who don't give a fuck is sort of exactly what we're discussing. They're also known as trolls. Not giving a fuck is fine - but the point is, if you really don't give a fuck, you wouldn't bother commenting at all.
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                        Aww, this is where it hurts. People shaming bad games and not paying for it. Don't say bad things and gib monies. Also, not pointed at you, because no idea about your game. You can however take it personally if you want
                        <img alt=":p" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite673" data-shortname=":p" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Stick out tongue    :p"/>
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                     I'm not taking it personally. There are truly horrific games out there. Mine might be one of them - I don't think so, but others might. And I'm again not against saying bad things. There are, however, ways to say bad things that can help better the product you're bashing, and ways to say bad things that doesn't help at all.
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                        Bullshit. It's most of the time: pay $5-$10 to get access to latest version, then development goes for years and apparently, you are paying $60 after one year. Sounds like AAA game price to me. Or teasing supporters to give bigger pledge so they don't have to wait month or a week or whatever. And a lot of time content is scarce only to post something once a month so cows don't go away. No wonder people prefer to pirate when devs use obvious methods to milk as much as possible, like a fucking scammers.  So yeah, fuck off with that.
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                     You chose to support an artist. Yes, some does of course "scam" money... the most popular games, however, have constant updates, and decent ones at that. It's not that hard finding good games if you want to. And no, the monthly payments aren't really "paying for the game" - you're supporting the artist. You pay them to create, not that particular game, necessarily. Looking at Patreon-games the same way you do micropayments in mobile games, for instance, is unfair to the Patreon way of doing it.
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                        Fuck that advice, go and complain.
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                     I'm actually trying to get people to complain less.
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                        You're not an angry person (or, well, you might be that as well), you're at least very close to a troll. You're arguing just for the sake of argument, and (further down) you're also being rude and crass just for the sake of being rude or crass.
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                     Cry me a salty river.
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                        Those who don't give a fuck is sort of exactly what we're discussing. They're also known as trolls. Not giving a fuck is fine - but the point is, if you really don't give a fuck, you wouldn't bother commenting at all.
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                     Ohohoho, so now we will slander them with troll argument, that's good. Every negative comment is a troll now. That's a nice spin! Because it doesn't make sense why anyone would leave a bad comment. Bigger and better tried what you are doing, didn't work for them, won't work for you, people aren't as dumb as you think they are
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
                     <br/>
                     Yes, unlike you, those people don't give a fuck about your feelings or what you think about them. You could learn a thing or two.
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                        I'm not taking it personally. There are truly horrific games out there. Mine might be one of them - I don't think so, but others might. And I'm again not against saying bad things. There are, however, ways to say bad things that can help better the product you're bashing, and ways to say bad things that doesn't help at all.
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                     Here is some reality: Dev is responsible for making the game, not his clients. Just like bug hunting, people do it for free while paying with pledge, which most devs expect like a damn vultures. It's not a player's job to make the game better and while they may leave a comment explaining issues, it's their whim to do so and no one should expect that as a natural thing. Stop asking supporting people to do your job.
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                        You chose to support an artist. Yes, some does of course "scam" money... the most popular games, however, have constant updates, and decent ones at that. It's not that hard finding good games if you want to. And no, the monthly payments aren't really "paying for the game" - you're supporting the artist. You pay them to create, not that particular game, necessarily. Looking at Patreon-games the same way you do micropayments in mobile games, for instance, is unfair to the Patreon way of doing it.
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                     I love how tone of whole post changed into this bad damage control with avoiding main issue of actual costs of patreon supported games and methods used to milk as much as possible. I fucking wonder why?
                     <br/>
                     Anyway, you are supporting a product, if it's going to be free, then technically it's a payment for a creator. If it's a product that's going to be sold, whole money should be used only for development. Fucking twats abuse this left and right and while using that money to pay for creator's living expenses is ok, main expected income should be from sales. End of fucking story. Stop abusing people's money, they work hard for it and so should you.
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                        I'm actually trying to get people to complain less.
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                     I can fucking tell. I wonder why? Oh, because if people complain then it's bad for getting more monetary support? Maybe there is a good damn reason. But no, everyone is a troll and just want to make some random dev's life miserable. Yeah, keep telling yourself that. People don't complain without reason. But something tells me you are fully aware of that and just afraid to accept that reality isn't how you hope it is.
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                        Yoshiiki said:
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                        Ohohoho, so now we will slander them with troll argument, that's good. Every negative comment is a troll now. That's a nice spin! Because it doesn't make sense why anyone would leave a bad comment. Bigger and better tried what you are doing, didn't work for them, won't work for you, people aren't as dumb as you think they are
                        <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                        Yes, unlike you, those people don't give a fuck about your feelings or what you think about them. You could learn a thing or two.
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                     First off, I never said anything about everybody leaving a negative comment being a troll. I would suggest reading-comprehension lessons. Second, I fail to see why being polite is seen as a weekness these days? It's not really helping civilised discourse.
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                        Here is some reality: Dev is responsible for making the game, not his clients. Just like bug hunting, people do it for free while paying with pledge, which most devs expect like a damn vultures. It's not a player's job to make the game better and while they may leave a comment explaining issues, it's their whim to do so and no one should expect that as a natural thing. Stop asking supporting people to do your job.
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                     It's completely fair to say that the dev is responsible for creating a game. However, creating games is a lot of work, and expecting to get it for free, without contributing, is pretty arrogant. Note that games that are in alpha/beta stages, and are posted here, is _FREE_. Maybe not the very last version, but usually the version before the current Patreon one (or, if one have several Patreon levels, at least the latest free version is just that - freely available. My point here is (as I've tried to convey before) is that people who get something for free, shouldn't feel they're entitled to anything but ... well, nothing. They've already gotten the game for free. If the game sucks... then just go on to the next one. Also, bug-testing is sort of a big field. There are plenty of things a small or one-man dev-team can't even begin to test for - for instance a lot of different PC-systems, which may or may not contribute to errors. Asking for bug-reports is a farily common thing, even for big firms, which often also demands payment (pre-registering, for instance) to participate in the beta-testing. Some give the betas out for free, some don't. This is fairly common practice
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                        I love how tone of whole post changed into this bad damage control with avoiding main issue of actual costs of patreon supported games and methods used to milk as much as possible. I fucking wonder why?
                        <br/>
                        Anyway, you are supporting a product, if it's going to be free, then technically it's a payment for a creator. If it's a product that's going to be sold, whole money should be used only for development. Fucking twats abuse this left and right and while using that money to pay for creator's living expenses is ok, main expected income should be from sales. End of fucking story. Stop abusing people's money, they work hard for it and so should you.
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                     So... you're not a fan of crowd-founding? You would like for porn-games to charge a set amount for the finished product? Given that plenty of actual, big titles (or names) have gone the crowdfunding route, it sounds like a sort of silly argument. Most creators of the games on F95 do not make a lot of money. There are a few exceptions, of course, but most? Nope. For most, it's not even enough to cover basic costs of creating a game. Given the cost of GFX today, running a decent render-box costs a couple thousand bucks, at least. That's not even close to what people make.
                     <br/>
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                     And... "they work hard for it and so should you"? So... game-making isn't work? Seriously? That is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. Game-making is probably one of the worst-paying jobs out there. Until you're lucky and make it "big" (none of the lewd-games have "made it big"). You can, if you're lucky, make a decent living out of it. But it takes a LOT of work to get there.
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                        I can fucking tell. I wonder why? Oh, because if people complain then it's bad for getting more monetary support? Maybe there is a good damn reason. But no, everyone is a troll and just want to make some random dev's life miserable. Yeah, keep telling yourself that. People don't complain without reason. But something tells me you are fully aware of that and just afraid to accept that reality isn't how you hope it is.
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                     Oh, people complain without reason all the time. They also complain just to make others feel miserable, or without any valid reason (although those who complain might feel that they have a valid reason, of course). That does not mean that all complaints are without reason. Of course not. It just means that people should try to keep it at least somewhat civil, and even try to maybe not let their feelings get the best of them. Feelings are crappy guides for coherent output.
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                        First off, I never said anything about everybody leaving a negative comment being a troll. I would suggest reading-comprehension lessons. Second, I fail to see why being polite is seen as a weekness these days? It's not really helping civilised discourse.
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                      Constructive critisism, however, can help - and if you cannot provide it, why not just shut up about it?
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                      Those who don't give a fuck is sort of exactly what we're discussing. They're also known as trolls. Not giving a fuck is fine - but the point is, if you really don't give a fuck, you wouldn't bother commenting at all.
                     </i>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Of course not, if it's not constructive criticism, it's a troll. Same thing, you just don't want negative comments on your game.
                     <br/>
                     Because not everyone is you and not everyone will act like you. For someone who talks about being polite I would start with trying to understand other people. But I guess they are just trolls, so let's ignore them, right?
                     <br/>
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                        It's completely fair to say that the dev is responsible for creating a game. However, creating games is a lot of work, and expecting to get it for free, without contributing, is pretty arrogant. Note that games that are in alpha/beta stages, and are posted here, is _FREE_. Maybe not the very last version, but usually the version before the current Patreon one (or, if one have several Patreon levels, at least the latest free version is just that - freely available. My point here is (as I've tried to convey before) is that people who get something for free, shouldn't feel they're entitled to anything but ... well, nothing. They've already gotten the game for free. If the game sucks... then just go on to the next one. Also, bug-testing is sort of a big field. There are plenty of things a small or one-man dev-team can't even begin to test for - for instance a lot of different PC-systems, which may or may not contribute to errors. Asking for bug-reports is a farily common thing, even for big firms, which often also demands payment (pre-registering, for instance) to participate in the beta-testing. Some give the betas out for free, some don't. This is fairly common practice
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                     Stop with defending shit games. People look at whole page of negative comments and they know it's not worth checking because other did it for them or dev is a scam/lazy/whatever. You are trying so fucking hard doing this whole "just move on, don't leave bad comment or possible patrons may not pledge" it couldn't be more obvious if you screamed it.
                     <br/>
                     If your game is shit and people are shitting on it, well, bad for you, seems like shekels won't flow.
                     <br/>
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                        So... you're not a fan of crowd-founding? You would like for porn-games to charge a set amount for the finished product? Given that plenty of actual, big titles (or names) have gone the crowdfunding route, it sounds like a sort of silly argument. Most creators of the games on F95 do not make a lot of money. There are a few exceptions, of course, but most? Nope. For most, it's not even enough to cover basic costs of creating a game. Given the cost of GFX today, running a decent render-box costs a couple thousand bucks, at least. That's not even close to what people make.
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                     Yes, I am not a fan of crowd-founding. Irony is fucking strong in this one.
                     <br/>
                     Well, maybe they don't make much because they suck at promotion, their game is shit or maybe people had enough of being fucked by milking devs. Oh no, so much money is needed - fuck off - people invest their own saving in projects and business, but it's so easy to talk about expenses when you expect money and no risk included.
                     <br/>
                     But again, you are avoiding a fucking point. And I know why, let's see and I quote:
                     <br/>
                     $1 pledge
                     <i>
                      "You will get access to new releases 1 week before they become public (1 week after the other Patreon categories)"
                     </i>
                     <br/>
                     That's from your own patreon. Do you know what it is? That's you saying: Hey, poorfag, you are worth less than other pledgers so you will wait or gib more shekels to play earlier. Fuck off with that, you are exactly what I am talking about. That's you being polite and treating people differently depending on their financial status, good fucking job, you can pat yourself on the back. If you want to run things like that, fine, but don't get shocked when someone calls you out on this. And let's not sugarcoat it, everyone knows moves like this are to get people that want to fap and can't wait. Dick move, that's what it is.
                     <br/>
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                        And... "they work hard for it and so should you"? So... game-making isn't work? Seriously? That is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. Game-making is probably one of the worst-paying jobs out there. Until you're lucky and make it "big" (none of the lewd-games have "made it big"). You can, if you're lucky, make a decent living out of it. But it takes a LOT of work to get there.
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                     Apparently, a lot of crowd-funded adult game making is just sitting on their asses and sucking on that patreon or other crowd-funding tit, rarely releasing anything and prolonging as long as possible. Sounds fucking hard.
                     <br/>
                     Until you are lucky? You really think it's all luck? You don't know shit if you think that. And none made it big, I wonder why? There are more than few project that could easily make it big if they didn't do some shady shit behind as soon as 5 digit money started flowing. They are still projects that make a lot and I hope they won't turn into fucktards because of all that green coming in.
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                        Oh, people complain without reason all the time. They also complain just to make others feel miserable, or without any valid reason (although those who complain might feel that they have a valid reason, of course). That does not mean that all complaints are without reason. Of course not. It just means that people should try to keep it at least somewhat civil, and even try to maybe not let their feelings get the best of them. Feelings are crappy guides for coherent output.
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                     And what if they don't want to keep it civil? Is mr. I-judge-you-based-on-your-financial-status going to slap some sense into them? I don't think so. Your constant trying to tone down people complaining about bad games is laughable, because you don't understand you won't stop it. You talked something about snowflakes earlier, you know what's funny? Snowflakes don't fucking understand this term and use it unironically, try not fucking melting.
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                     HI everybody. I'd like to share my opinion here. I'll try to be as polite as possible, but at the same time I want to say how I see it.
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                     First I want to say that being polite is virtue. If everyone would be polite we wouldn't have this discussion, would we? Being polite doesn't mean saying only nice things, it means saying things in a way that doesn't offend anyone.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Lately, it seems to me that the line between being polite and being rude is sometimes blurred. For some people saying something might be within the realm of politeness and for someone it might be offensive. For example saying to woman that she's beautiful might be compliment to her and to another woman it might be objectifying.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Only the speaker knows the real intent behind their words, but we always interpret them in multiple ways. We're sad so we see a comment as aggression towards us, we're happy and open minded and we see constructive criticism. Not to mention the emotions of the writter of the comment. They may be even in worse state of mind and they say or write something they wouldn't otherwise. Or they were happy and meant it as a innocent tease.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     So what should we do about comments that make us sad or offended? Well, that depends on circumstances I guess. Most of the times we'll get verbally attacked by random people on the street or internet, pub, wherever. To this I say ignore it. That person doesn't matter to you, so don't give him the pleasure to be sad or offended because of them. IF you get sad or offended, that means you have low self-respect and you should work on that.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     But there is other group of people who can say something bad to you. And that are people you know, family, friends or for example patrons. If they attack you for the first time, don't attack back right away, don't get sad or offended right away. Instead ask them why they say what they say. It might have been just a short frustration, anger, or something else entirely. They might apologize right away, or phrase their comment better, so you can understand where they're coming from and then you can respond properly. If you get upset by their initial comment, don't respond right away (if that's possible), because in the heat of the moment you might say something you might regret latter.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     IF your friends or relatives etc. attack you periodically you have to stand up for yourself. First try to find, if there's a bit of truth in the message they're telling you over and over. For example if they're yelling at you "Your fat shit, your fat shit" and you actually weight a lot, maybe you should start seriously thinking about it and not get offended or get sad. Think about it and if you find out your happy as it is, then fight back, tell them that you're happy and you won't change. If they won't stop yelling at you, then you should sever the ties. Such a relationship doesn't lead nowhere, and even if you care about them, they don't care about you enough to let you make your own deccisions.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     So what is the point of all this stuff? Be respectful, not just to others but to yourself as well. When somebody attacks you for no good reason, try to find out why if you care about that person, or ignore them if you don't. Respect yourself and know yourself enough and you will know that what ever some random person says isn't true.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     These days so many people feel that they have the right to get offended. That freedom of speech is attacking their existence. NO, it doesn't. Their state of mind is attacking their existence. They doubt about themselves and they need justification for outside world to make themselves feel better, but they don't get any. All they really need is to believe in themselves a little bit more.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Yoshiiki · Mar 18, 2018 at 7:21 AM" data-lb-id="post-582923">
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                     Good that I have alcohol near me.
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                        HI everybody. I'd like to share my opinion here. I'll try to be as polite as possible, but at the same time I want to say how I see it.
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                     I won't be polite, to balance things out.
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                        First I want to say that being polite is virtue. If everyone would be polite we wouldn't have this discussion, would we? Being polite doesn't mean saying only nice things, it means saying things in a way that doesn't offend anyone.
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                     But I don't want to be polite and offend people that can't take it, neither do I care if their fee fees are hurt. And I can guarantee you it's not only me. Doesn't mean it's always the case.
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                        Lately, it seems to me that the line between being polite and being rude is sometimes blurred. For some people saying something might be within the realm of politeness and for someone it might be offensive. For example saying to woman that she's beautiful might be compliment to her and to another woman it might be objectifying.
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                     Lately? Oh, that explains a lot. Welcome to the internet, no one gives a fuck.
                     <br/>
                     Some random girl says some stupid shit about objectifying. Go with proper rule: don't stick it in the crazy and move along.
                     <br/>
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                        Only the speaker knows the real intent behind their words, but we always interpret them in multiple ways. We're sad so we see a comment as aggression towards us, we're happy and open minded and we see constructive criticism. Not to mention the emotions of the writter of the comment. They may be even in worse state of mind and they say or write something they wouldn't otherwise. Or they were happy and meant it as a innocent tease.
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                     Oh? Only speaker knows the real intent? Well, if someone posts "you are a shit" then intent was pretty obvious. But yeah, let's go all Freud on this. If you see negative comments you either fucked up or they are just shitposting. Also, why did you switch constructive criticism in place of positive comments? Because right now you can have three things: Negative comment, positive and constructive criticism. Or just call it a comment.
                     <br/>
                     Or it wasn't innocent tease, they though it was shit and said exactly that, jeezas...
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                        So what should we do about comments that make us sad or offended? Well, that depends on circumstances I guess. Most of the times we'll get verbally attacked by random people on the street or internet, pub, wherever. To this I say ignore it. That person doesn't matter to you, so don't give him the pleasure to be sad or offended because of them. IF you get sad or offended, that means you have low self-respect and you should work on that.
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                     Simplified: If you give reaction to an action, there will be more action. 20 years of Internet and nothing changed on the matter. Kids those days can't take any shit. You slightly poke them and they loose their mind like privileged little fucks.
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                        But there is other group of people who can say something bad to you. And that are people you know, family, friends or for example patrons. If they attack you for the first time, don't attack back right away, don't get sad or offended right away. Instead ask them why they say what they say. It might have been just a short frustration, anger, or something else entirely. They might apologize right away, or phrase their comment better, so you can understand where they're coming from and then you can respond properly. If you get upset by their initial comment, don't respond right away (if that's possible), because in the heat of the moment you might say something you might regret latter.
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                     Or learn about banter, throw it all out, if your friendship didn't survive this, it wasn't worth it. Most of the time you are in a pub, drinking another beer like nothing happened.
                     <br/>
                     Yeah, kids, in the heat of the moment you may say something bad and then try to pedal back like a bitch so no one is upset. Let's cut out whole spectrum of emotions and turn into marshmallows so anyone can turn us into pulp with few words...
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                        IF your friends or relatives etc. attack you periodically you have to stand up for yourself. First try to find, if there's a bit of truth in the message they're telling you over and over. For example if they're yelling at you "Your fat shit, your fat shit" and you actually weight a lot, maybe you should start seriously thinking about it and not get offended or get sad. Think about it and if you find out your happy as it is, then fight back, tell them that you're happy and you won't change. If they won't stop yelling at you, then you should sever the ties. Such a relationship doesn't lead nowhere, and even if you care about them, they don't care about you enough to let you make your own deccisions.
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                     If someone is a fat fuck and says it's fine, then that's a lazy fat fuck. Get to the fucking gym, those people care more for you than you yourself and that's actually their problem, I wouldn't even bother spending a word unless it's for fun or for a friend.
                     <br/>
                     Yeah, cut out all people that don't want you to suffer, that's a great advice. Eat another fry and die before getting 40yo. Jeezas.
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                        So what is the point of all this stuff? Be respectful, not just to others but to yourself as well. When somebody attacks you for no good reason, try to find out why if you care about that person, or ignore them if you don't. Respect yourself and know yourself enough and you will know that what ever some random person says isn't true.
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                     Point? I will tell you what's the point: To preach and hoping to change mind of people so they won't shit on you. People won't suddenly be nice, even after years of trying to make them, they kick back hard at it. Normal conversations do happen more often than people shitting on each other, it's when some bullshit comes up all that negativity hits on like a train.
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                        These days so many people feel that they have the right to get offended. That freedom of speech is attacking their existence. NO, it doesn't. Their state of mind is attacking their existence. They doubt about themselves and they need justification for outside world to make themselves feel better, but they don't get any. All they really need is to believe in themselves a little bit more.
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                     Offence is taken is what you wanted to say.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     And of course, same thing, hiding your game behind "pay $5 for newest version or wait, you poorfag". Those are milking methods and only point is to do exactly that. So yeah, I love when people preach about being nice and shit, while don't mind using disgusting methods to grind money. And as I said, do it whoever you like, but keep in mind what you are doing. Everyone wants to be next EA.
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                     Bored of this thread, too many money grabbing snowflakes.
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                        Good that I have alcohol near me.
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                        I won't be polite, to balance things out.
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                        But I don't want to be polite and offend people that can't take it, neither do I care if their fee fees are hurt. And I can guarantee you it's not only me. Doesn't mean it's always the case.
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                     What I hear is, "I can talk shit to everybody and I don't care what they think." Well, good for you. Talk like that to all your friends and relatives all the time and soon you'll have only the alcohol. There has to be a way to conduct yourself in life and online that won't be deliberately attacking others. If you want to attack others, then they shouldn't just get offended, the should ignore you.
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                        Lately? Oh, that explains a lot. Welcome to the internet, no one gives a fuck.
                        <br/>
                        Some random girl says some stupid shit about objectifying. Go with proper rule: don't stick it in the crazy and move along.
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                     I've never said that you should get along with the crazy, I just tried to point out the disparity between reactions to the same comment and why does it happen. And then suggested how people on the recieving end should process such a comment.
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                        Oh? Only speaker knows the real intent? Well, if someone posts "you are a shit" then intent was pretty obvious.
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                     Maybe I should have explain it a little more in detail, but mz mind sometimes jump ahead and I don't write it. So if someone posts "you are a shit", then the best reaction is to ignore it. You can ask why they wrote it, if you want, so they may explain themselves, but most of the time you won't get a decent response.
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                        But yeah, let's go all Freud on this. If you see negative comments you either fucked up or they are just shitposting. Also, why did you switch constructive criticism in place of positive comments? Because right now you can have three things: Negative comment, positive and constructive criticism. Or just call it a comment.
                        <br/>
                        Or it wasn't innocent tease, they though it was shit and said exactly that, jeezas...
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                     What I meant by it is when you get comments like "This game is really bad". This can be considered as negative comment, but it also might be true, if the game is bad. The reaction to this shouldn't be emotional despair, but instead you should ask for explanation. When emotions get out of the way, you might actually get constructive criticism. But it's not a positive comment. The bit with innocent tease was just to prove my point, that you don't know the intent of the message, if it can be interpreted in multiple ways. So don't assume the worst the first second.
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                        Simplified: If you give reaction to an action, there will be more action. 20 years of Internet and nothing changed on the matter. Kids those days can't take any shit. You slightly poke them and they loose their mind like privileged little fucks.
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                     Simplified: No that's not true. If you don't add more fuel to the fire people won't get more aggresive towards you. So it's about being polite again, even to rude people. If the keep being rude, then just stop talking to them. But if they calm down and start talking normally, then you can figure out whatever the problem is.
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                        Or learn about banter, throw it all out, if your friendship didn't survive this, it wasn't worth it. Most of the time you are in a pub, drinking another beer like nothing happened.
                        <br/>
                        Yeah, kids, in the heat of the moment you may say something bad and then try to pedal back like a bitch so no one is upset. Let's cut out whole spectrum of emotions and turn into marshmallows so anyone can turn us into pulp with few words...
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                     Banter is a good think, tease your friends from time to time and have food laugh about it is pure joy. There's a different between friendly chit-chat where everybody has a good time, and emotional abuse to force someone to do something they don't want to (like loosing the weight). I haven't said that you shouldn't listen to the message hidden behind the rude form. In fact I've stated that you should really think about it and only if you find out that your happy the way you are then you should say "that's enough, I won't change" Ultimatelly it's your bad decision, but others should respect it. And maybe in time you'll change your mind and thank your friends for pushing you. But the message might be "you have ugly nose, go get plastic surgery." It might be fun for first couple time, but then it'll turn into annoyance and they should stop, if they know their boundaries. If not the receiving party should politely ask them to stop.
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                        If someone is a fat fuck and says it's fine, then that's a lazy fat fuck. Get to the fucking gym, those people care more for you than you yourself and that's actually their problem, I wouldn't even bother spending a word unless it's for fun or for a friend.
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                     This is where your wrong. Fat people are not lazy, they don't have any self-respect. They can sacrifice their lives for other, but are unable to do something just for themselves. They are very productive when it comes to creating something that many people will benefit from, so they can put the time and effort in. They aren't lazy. Most of the time they bottle up some pain inside, whether it is reasonable or not, that's not the point. They feel it is reasonable, and only talking about the pain can help them move roward.
                     <br/>
                     Changing your lifestyle is hard, if you don't have money or support, you won't make it. It's not about losing weight, it's about starting new life and that terrifies people. So they rather is in couch doing what the  know then explore the unknown.
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                        Yeah, cut out all people that don't want you to suffer, that's a great advice. Eat another fry and die before getting 40yo. Jeezas.
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                     Again, probably haven't explained myself completely. Cut out only the people who mentally abuse you for years. If you have a friend who tells you every day "you're a shit" then what's the point of spending time with them.
                     <br/>
                     Btw, why turning into personal attack? You don't know me, I'm not fat, but I like fries from time to time. I might as well say that you should get of your steroids. They make you overly aggressive and your balls ridiculously small. But in fact that's a good thing, because we don't need people like you to procreate.
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                        Point? I will tell you what's the point: To preach and hoping to change mind of people so they won't shit on you. People won't suddenly be nice, even after years of trying to make them, they kick back hard at it. Normal conversations do happen more often than people shitting on each other, it's when some bullshit comes up all that negativity hits on like a train.
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                     Looks like you completely missed the point. The point is that people on the receiving end shouldn't get offended in the first instance. They should think before react and I might suggest that to you too. The point is that people should ignore offensive matterial instead of trying to block it for everyone. The point is to look at th eother side, see what the see and then react.
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                        Offence is taken is what you wanted to say.
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                     Why would I want to say that? I don't know you. Most likely I'll never meet you in my life, so why should I get offended by you. Whatever you say won't offend me. I'll either ignore it or try find the reason behind your words. You can say whatever you want and I shouldn't command you otherwise. But I can say whatever I want too, and I think that people in general should be more polite to each other. It's not about what you say, but how you say it. But you can speak however you want, I just won't react to you if I find you annoying.
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                        And of course, same thing, hiding your game behind "pay $5 for newest version or wait, you poorfag". Those are milking methods and only point is to do exactly that. So yeah, I love when people preach about being nice and shit, while don't mind using disgusting methods to grind money. And as I said, do it whoever you like, but keep in mind what you are doing. Everyone wants to be next EA.
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                     Let me laugh at that. Maybe you should give your game for free, then. And don't hide it behind $1 paywall like you do. Because what is diffrerence between $5 and $1 paywall? Only your perception of what is tolerable. In fact that is exact the same bullshit like with speech. You hear something that might offend someone but not you and you find it ridiculous. On the other hand you find it outrageous to ask for $5 when asking for $1 is ok. Why are you getting upset? Because you can get your favorite candy for the change in your pocket? Don't participate in such a heinous behavior if you don't like it. But don't ask others to change, because that's the same thing as if I wanted you to change the way you talk to us. If you don't see the parallel here, then you're as blinded as the snowflakes you want me to be.
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                        Bored of this thread, too many money grabbing snowflakes.
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                     Thanks for interesting point of yours. Standing behind your ideas is admirable, but be prepared to receive what you give.
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                     Seems like we both don't understand what other side is saying. Fine. I don't agree with few things, but as I said, bored of this thread. I can discuss in another thread with more suited topic or PM. This thread simply lost it's entertainment value.
                     <br/>
                     So yeah, that's one option to continue this, other thing you can do is just assuming you are fully correct or whatever you want to "feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel".
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                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                     Since there's a way to talk to strangers hiding behind a keyboard, lots of people think that being rude is a cheap trick to prove themselves. Sarcasm overdose is another old time internet disease. I got bored of both several years ago and just try to ignore them since then. Most people suck. Just focus your attention in the few ones that worth it (finding them is a pleasant game!).
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     That said, there's an amazing line said by J. K. Simmons in the movie Whiplash:
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                     His point is: if a person gives up some work because of criticism about it, it means he most probably would never do a great job anyway. Doesn't matter if it's constructive criticism or not.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     When a new dev is making his first game, he needs someone to kick him off the peak of the Dunning-Kruger graph. It happens to
                     <b>
                      everyone
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                     starting a new venture.
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                     I think this is one of very few the cases when a "this is a complete shit, give up" comment is worth of being read. If you can't overcome the Valley of Despair, then Terrence Fletcher was right.
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                     Dunno. the DK effect is certainly real; anyone dealing with a job with high technical competence bar has seen it.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     But calling something shit is rarely useful. At the beginning of the slope they'll ignore you, because they're awesome and wtf do you know? At the bit of despair they'll believe you, and quit. Once they get out of that they'll look at their stuff, look at you, and say "fuck off, troll...what do you know"?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     So it's always better to say "*this* is shit, but I love that and that and that". Now we're not enemies, we're allies in helping you make a better game.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I tend to listen more to allies than enemies. I'm weird like that
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                        Dunno. the DK effect is certainly real; anyone dealing with a job with high technical competence bar has seen it.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        But calling something shit is rarely useful. At the beginning of the slope they'll ignore you, because they're awesome and wtf do you know? At the bit of despair they'll believe you, and quit. Once they get out of that they'll look at their stuff, look at you, and say "fuck off, troll...what do you know"?
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        So it's always better to say "*this* is shit, but I love that and that and that". Now we're not enemies, we're allies in helping you make a better game.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        I tend to listen more to allies than enemies. I'm weird like that
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                     I don't mean to dis video-game mentality, on a game forum... but
                     <br/>
                     Having a different opinion with someone doesn't make them your "enemy"
                     <br/>
                     We don't all have to agree on everything.
                     <br/>
                     I've had bloody battles with a few people, and bought them a drink afterwards.
                     <br/>
                     ---- "Have I not destroyed my enemy, by befriending him?"
                     <br/>
                     Something that can't be stressed enough, is "Don't take it personally"
                     <br/>
                     If you show weakness, reveal vulnerability... trolls will eat you.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Freedom of speech for all.
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                     It's been a while since I came back to look at this thread, it actually got more attention than I thought it would.
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                     There are Some very good Opinions and Views from both sides of the fence which is always a good perspective for anyone to look at.
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                     I usually look at some comments left on posts regarding games from some well known developers and is almost shocking how little respect people have for developers work and their time.
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                     Every game has it flaws, every game has its own specific audience, but people just can't refrain themselves from bashing and insulting instead of ignoring and moving forward.
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                     What I find funny, is that I think there are more insulting posts for a commercial game (provided for free) than thanks to the releaser combined with genunine posts about the game itself.
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