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                     mate there are hundreds or thousands of patreon account each with their own pricing.
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                     Give us an exemple otherwise go with your choice, balancing between supporting the artist and your own needs of the content
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                     Like usual game price. $5 - $10 - $20 - $30 - $40 - $60.
                     <br/>
                     I don't like developer who make $1 just for able to see thread and still not obtain the game itself or join discussion.
                     <br/>
                     As developer of porn games didn't make merch for patorn, probably just select 3 price from it, with bonus like, the cheapest get the game after 1 week, the middle get the game as release, the largest get the game at release and able to vote.
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                        With the new Patreon fees on patrons. What do you think is the most attractive reward amount? Do you think $5 pledges are too much now, or do $3 pledges sound better for access to typical benefits such as early access. Or do you think $1 is enough?
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                     For my two cents. With games that take a year to come out $5 has always been too much to expect. I mean, in perspective, that's $60 dollars for your game if they pledge from the start.
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                     That said, I don't plan on releasing at least one of my games on Patreon. It contains incest, so I'm going to a different service, like AdultPledge. The thing there though is higher fees, because the payment providers they have been able to find won't go for cheaper. So there's a 10% like patreon, plus a static 65 cent charge. So on a 1 dollar patron you take 25cents. As a result you have to chartge a premium for the allowance of fetish content. One thing they're doing is looking at 6 month packages, so that charges can be hit all at once on a larger amount that means you take more home.
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                     Thing you have to think of is how much Patreon takes out of each pledge $1 pledge is going to be eaten up by fees $3 seems reasonable just figure a dollar of that will go to fees
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                    After years of working on Dreaming of Dana, Intimate Relations, Life With Mary, and Haily's Story with Ptolemy
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                    I would love to put my Heart into something again
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                     If you don't want to donate to me I understand Check out
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                        Thing you have to think of is how much Patreon takes out of each pledge $1 pledge is going to be eaten up by fees $3 seems reasonable just figure a dollar of that will go to fees
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                     As of december they are only taking 10%, according to what I just saw this morning. Or did I misunderstand? Because I'm more than happy with 90 Cents
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                     Patreon takes 5 to 15 Percent off the top
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                    After years of working on Dreaming of Dana, Intimate Relations, Life With Mary, and Haily's Story with Ptolemy
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                    I would love to put my Heart into something again
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                     If you don't want to donate to me I understand Check out
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                        Patreon takes 5 to 15 Percent off the top
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                     So minimum 85 cents... that's still good.
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                     CHARACTER DEPTH MATTERS!!!
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                      The Things We Do For Love
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                     is still on hold,
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                     Zero.
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                     Because all too often these patron games are early alphas missing most of their promised features, with a downright glacial update rate, and absolutely zero transparency. Half the time they don't even qualify as games, and when you consider that there are people making these who make thousands a month, it's rather blatant.
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                     Patrion is a format that outright encourages people to never actually finish a game.
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                        Zero.
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                        Because all too often these patron games are early alphas missing most of their promised features, with a downright glacial update rate, and absolutely zero transparency. Half the time they don't even qualify as games, and when you consider that there are people making these who make thousands a month, it's rather blatant.
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                        Patrion is a format that outright encourages people to never actually finish a game.
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                     I won't argue against that, however, I'll also point out that there are plenty of games that are great and have no reason to end. The latest version of Good Girl Gone Bad, for instance, is like 14 or something, that implies the game has been going strong for a year and 2 months. And you know what? I don't see an end in sight. However, that's entirely appropriate. What Eva Kiss has done is make a game that is more about the journey than the destination.
                     <br/>
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                     I think the ideal format for many of these games to take on is an episodic format. And if we as the audience treat them as episodes of a series that all tell us a story along the way then there's no real issue with their never ending, so long as the premise holds and the writers can keep it interesting. As to their "Glacial update rate" yeah, sure, complain that a person takes the time, alone, to provide content on the scale of a game, you're a real gem aren't you?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     It isn't as simple as grabbing a couple pieces and putting them in a box and sending it out. It takes a while to write a script, rewrite it to make it better, move on to art, that part especially, can take the majority of the month. Code, well, that depends, sometimes its easy enough to develop alongside the script, sometimes you want to do it separately. I don't know about you, but I am not good enough to do that month to month all by myself. The few that are, Philly Games, for instance, really do have to spend every moment they aren't working on their day job, building their games.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Really, take a second to think before you complain. I don't expect you to support people, this is a piracy website, but don't sit there, stealing someone else's hard work and then whine like a bitch that they aren't creating enough content to satisfy you.
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                        I won't argue against that, however, I'll also point out that there are plenty of games that are great and have no reason to end. The latest version of Good Girl Gone Bad, for instance, is like 14 or something, that implies the game has been going strong for a year and 2 months. And you know what? I don't see an end in sight. However, that's entirely appropriate. What Eva Kiss has done is make a game that is more about the journey than the destination.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        I think the ideal format for many of these games to take on is an episodic format. And if we as the audience treat them as episodes of a series that all tell us a story along the way then there's no real issue with their never ending, so long as the premise holds and the writers can keep it interesting. As to their "Glacial update rate" yeah, sure, complain that a person takes the time, alone, to provide content on the scale of a game, you're a real gem aren't you?
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        It isn't as simple as grabbing a couple pieces and putting them in a box and sending it out. It takes a while to write a script, rewrite it to make it better, move on to art, that part especially, can take the majority of the month. Code, well, that depends, sometimes its easy enough to develop alongside the script, sometimes you want to do it separately. I don't know about you, but I am not good enough to do that month to month all by myself. The few that are, Philly Games, for instance, really do have to spend every moment they aren't working on their day job, building their games.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Really, take a second to think before you complain. I don't expect you to support people, this is a piracy website, but don't sit there, stealing someone else's hard work and then whine like a bitch that they aren't creating enough content to satisfy you.
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                     Make a game with enough content to qualify as a full on game, without endless dead ends, missing bits of content, and lackadaisical efforts and I'll happily pay for it.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     When I see someone making a simple Ren'py VN using the same lazy Daz assets as every other two out of three games on the internet and getting several thousand dollars a month to just toss out a couple new scenes it makes me want to scream.
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                        Make a game with enough content to qualify as a full on game, without endless dead ends, missing bits of content, and lackadaisical efforts and I'll happily pay for it.
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                        When I see someone making a simple Ren'py VN using the same lazy Daz assets as every other two out of three games on the internet and getting several thousand dollars a month to just toss out a couple new scenes it makes me want to scream.
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                     But again, you're not paying... so what makes you think you deserve better? These devs are spending their time to make a game. Sure, they aren't all amazing, but no one's telling you to play their game. Find the gems, like Wicked Choices or Depraved Awakening, made with both quality daz art and great writing. Or, put your money where your mouth is, and do as I did, become a developer yourself. Its one thing to talk. Its another thing to do.
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                        Its one thing to talk. Its another thing to do
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                     Creating a game takes a little more effort&amp;time than a YouTube video...and while you demand...
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                        Make a game with enough content to qualify as a full on game [...] I'll happily pay for it
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                     the alternative to donations...(finding investors)...isn't an option for adult games not even talking about the risks involving that approach. On top of that your account on F95 suggests that you do enjoy game updates which for the most part would not happen without support to begin with...
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                        Because all too often these patron games are early alphas missing most of their promised features, with a downright glacial update rate, and absolutely zero transparency. Half the time they don't even qualify as games, and when you consider that there are people making these who make thousands a month, it's rather blatant.
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                     in essence every patron decides if a Dev is trustworthy or not which is part of the package and often forgotten...with zero communication...no regular or micro updates that do not deserve to be called update...sure no one says black sheep ain't to be found on the adult farm...crowdfunding could handle them better via binding contract...but anyways turning a blind eye towards the ones that do mean to finish there projects won't help no one really.
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                        When I see someone making a simple Ren'py VN using the same lazy Daz assets as every other two out of three games on the internet and getting several thousand dollars a month to just toss out a couple new scenes it makes me want to scream.
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                     Tell you what looking towards Hollywood...or YouTube...or adult games for that matter...quality and success do not necessarily come in a bundle...do I understand why? Hell no...I have given up on that one a long time ago and you should too it's part of staying sane and happy.
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                        Make a game with enough content to qualify as a full on game, without endless dead ends, missing bits of content, and lackadaisical efforts and I'll happily pay for it.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        When I see someone making a simple Ren'py VN using the same lazy Daz assets as every other two out of three games on the internet and getting several thousand dollars a month to just toss out a couple new scenes it makes me want to scream.
                       </div>
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                     Scream all you want, if you start developing your own game you can complain about others who didn't match your speed since you could do it faster than them. But since you don't no one will listen to your screaming around.
                     <br/>
                     In our case ASLPro3D started with a buffer, he worked four month before releasing the first months work so that he always had a three month buffer. Which he thought was enough, but with all the shit that can happen in real life it didn't take long until the buffer was diminished. So he can only pump out what he can do each month and since the game isn't our full time job yet, we can't do more than work after our real life jobs. Meaning sometimes it's a big update and sometimes it just isn't. Still, after 7 month we're at those statistics:
                     <br/>
                     <b>
                      <br/>
                      The game contains 4,260 dialogue blocks, containing 97,189 words and 545,232
                      <br/>
                      characters, for an average of 22.8 words and 128 characters per block.
                      <br/>
                      <br/>
                      The game contains 50 menus, 2,065 images, and 23 screens.
                     </b>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If you can do it better in 7 month, be my guest, try it, and if you can do it then you can complain about us devs being slow and trying to milk our patrons. If you can't you should consider not badmouthing the work of other people. You don't have to pay anyone anything if you think they don't deserve it, but don't throw all patreon adult game creators on one pile.
                     <br/>
                     And bear in mind that the word count alone is the size of a full novel (Not VN a real novel like Harry Potter and stuff like that)
                     <br/>
                     Here's a list of the wordcount for the Harry Potter books, just so you know, she took more than a year to write one of them:
                     <br/>
                     <ol>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                       Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone: 76,944 words.
                       <br/>
                       <br/>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                       Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets: 85,141 words.
                       <br/>
                       <br/>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                       Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban: 107,253 words.
                       <br/>
                       <br/>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                       Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: 190,637 words.
                       <br/>
                       <br/>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                       Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix: 257,045 words.
                       <br/>
                       <br/>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                       Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince: 168,923 words.
                       <br/>
                       <br/>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                       Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: 198,227 words.
                      </li>
                     </ol>
                     <br/>
                     There are more than 2000 full scene rendered images in the game. That's about 3x to 6x the amount most of the other games have / had after 7 month of development. Just saying... it's a hell of a lot of work, if you can't appreciate it then you don't have to, just ignore those games you don't like, since you don't pay for them you don't lose anything. But don't say there aren't any devs out there working their asses off to do something they love and to present you something worth your time.
                     <br/>
                     As of why there are so many games out there on patreon that aren't finished yet? Well it's not like you can do a game in a day, and it costs time and money to produce one, not only the assets but what do you think a computer in full throttle does? It eats energy, and now imagine your computer had to stay on 24/7 30 days a month under full throttle with a 1000W PSU? Well it eat's 1KW/h which ends up being 24KW/h x 30 = 720KW/h per month x in my case 27,75€ cents = 199,80€ a month just for rendering. There's no new model or house or any asset in it yet. It's just the energy costs for my PC rendering.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Now add to that in our case the costs of a programmer, the need to replace some hardware like a damaged HDD, a burned out Graphic card or stuff like that. Then add another ~100€ for some new small assets like some new clothes for your characters and stuff like that. Well it adds up after a while. So yes we developers need support WHILE doing the game, if we had finished it already we could just sell it for $5-$20 and be done with it. But that can only be done by people who have the money lying around up front to produce the game.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Whatever I've ranted enough now.... you think it's so easy, do it yourself.... until then stop saying nobody on patreon deserves support just because you ended up playing all the games created by 12yr old boys because you found the models looking good and the story summary was so incesty
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Daishi · Mar 6, 2018 at 5:47 PM" data-lb-id="post-554039">
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                       <a class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" data-content-selector="#post-554009" data-xf-click="attribution" href="/goto/post?id=554009">
                        The-real-Vastitas said:
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                        Creating a game takes a little more effort&amp;time than a YouTube video...and while you demand...
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                     I know that much myself. If it was easy, I'd be making my own damned games. It's not like I don't have an artist I could recruit.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Problem is I'm ass at coding. Not my talent.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote">
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                        the alternative to donations...(finding investors)...isn't an option for adult games not even talking about the risks involving that approach. On top of that your account on F95 suggests that you do enjoy game updates which for the most part would not happen without support to begin with...
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                     Part of my annoyance is because in many ways I remember playing games written before patrion became a big thing, and ironically many of those free labors of love were more in depth and feature complete than a depressing portion of the patrion content being released out these days.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote">
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                        in essence every patron decides if a Dev is trustworthy or not which is part of the package and often forgotten...with zero communication...no regular or micro updates that do not deserve to be called update...sure no one says black sheep ain't to be found on the adult farm...crowdfunding could handle them better via binding contract...but anyways turning a blind eye towards the ones that do mean to finish there projects won't help no one really.
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                     Oh, I don't. I just have very little trust in your average patrion. I've seen far too many games get by with what seem to be updates with very little significant content.
                     <br/>
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                        Tell you what looking towards Hollywood...or YouTube...or adult games for that matter...quality and success do not necessarily come in a bundle...do I understand why? Hell no...I have given up on that one a long time ago and you should too it's part of staying sane and happy.
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                     It's half marketing and half-human stupidity I say.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Listen, I'm not saying I'm totally against Patrion. I just have a lot of distrust due to the way that a painfully large number of people treat the platform.
                     <br/>
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                        Palanto Games said:
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                        Scream all you want, if you start developing your own game you can complain about others who didn't match your speed since you could do it faster than them. But since you don't no one will listen to your screaming around.
                        <br/>
                        In our case ASLPro3D started with a buffer, he worked four month before releasing the first months work so that he always had a three month buffer. Which he thought was enough, but with all the shit that can happen in real life it didn't take long until the buffer was diminished. So he can only pump out what he can do each month and since the game isn't our full time job yet, we can't do more than work after our real life jobs. Meaning sometimes it's a big update and sometimes it just isn't. Still, after 7 month we're at those statistics:
                        <br/>
                        <b>
                         <br/>
                         The game contains 4,260 dialogue blocks, containing 97,189 words and 545,232
                         <br/>
                         characters, for an average of 22.8 words and 128 characters per block.
                         <br/>
                         <br/>
                         The game contains 50 menus, 2,065 images, and 23 screens.
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        If you can do it better in 7 month, be my guest, try it, and if you can do it then you can complain about us devs being slow and trying to milk our patrons. If you can't you should consider not badmouthing the work of other people. You don't have to pay anyone anything if you think they don't deserve it, but don't throw all patreon adult game creators on one pile.
                        <br/>
                        And bear in mind that the word count alone is the size of a full novel (Not VN a real novel like Harry Potter and stuff like that)
                        <br/>
                        Here's a list of the wordcount for the Harry Potter books, just so you know, she took more than a year to write one of them:
                        <br/>
                        <ol>
                         <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                          Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone: 76,944 words.
                          <br/>
                          <br/>
                         </li>
                         <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                          Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets: 85,141 words.
                          <br/>
                          <br/>
                         </li>
                         <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                          Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban: 107,253 words.
                          <br/>
                          <br/>
                         </li>
                         <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                          Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: 190,637 words.
                          <br/>
                          <br/>
                         </li>
                         <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                          Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix: 257,045 words.
                          <br/>
                          <br/>
                         </li>
                         <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                          Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince: 168,923 words.
                          <br/>
                          <br/>
                         </li>
                         <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                          Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: 198,227 words.
                         </li>
                        </ol>
                        <br/>
                        There are more than 2000 full scene rendered images in the game. That's about 3x to 6x the amount most of the other games have / had after 7 month of development. Just saying... it's a hell of a lot of work, if you can't appreciate it then you don't have to, just ignore those games you don't like, since you don't pay for them you don't lose anything. But don't say there aren't any devs out there working their asses off to do something they love and to present you something worth your time.
                        <br/>
                        As of why there are so many games out there on patreon that aren't finished yet? Well it's not like you can do a game in a day, and it costs time and money to produce one, not only the assets but what do you think a computer in full throttle does? It eats energy, and now imagine your computer had to stay on 24/7 30 days a month under full throttle with a 1000W PSU? Well it eat's 1KW/h which ends up being 24KW/h x 30 = 720KW/h per month x in my case 27,75€ cents = 199,80€ a month just for rendering. There's no new model or house or any asset in it yet. It's just the energy costs for my PC rendering.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Now add to that in our case the costs of a programmer, the need to replace some hardware like a damaged HDD, a burned out Graphic card or stuff like that. Then add another ~100€ for some new small assets like some new clothes for your characters and stuff like that. Well it adds up after a while. So yes we developers need support WHILE doing the game, if we had finished it already we could just sell it for $5-$20 and be done with it. But that can only be done by people who have the money lying around up front to produce the game.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Whatever I've ranted enough now.... you think it's so easy, do it yourself.... until then stop saying nobody on patreon deserves support just because you ended up playing all the games created by 12yr old boys because you found the models looking good and the story summary was so incesty
                        <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                     Oh for the love of...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     You actually put in the effort. Congratulations for not ripping off your patrons. Now if everyone making smut on patrion had your work ethic I wouldn't be so bitter and paranoid.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     You're one of the good ones.
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                        I know that much myself. If it was easy, I'd be making my own damned games. It's not like I don't have an artist I could recruit.
                        <br/>
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                        Problem is I'm ass at coding. Not my talent.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Part of my annoyance is because in many ways I remember playing games written before patrion became a big thing, and ironically many of those free labors of love were more in depth and feature complete than a depressing portion of the patrion content being released out these days.
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                        Oh, I don't. I just have very little trust in your average patrion. I've seen far too many games get by with what seem to be updates with very little significant content.
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                        It's half marketing and half-human stupidity I say.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Listen, I'm not saying I'm totally against Patrion. I just have a lot of distrust due to the way that a painfully large number of people treat the platform.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Oh for the love of...
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        You actually put in the effort. Congratulations for not ripping off your patrons. Now if everyone making smut on patrion had your work ethic I wouldn't be so bitter and paranoid.
                        <br/>
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                        You're one of the good ones.
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                     Case in point Splendid fucking Ostrich I was a patron of his once.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Please note his patreon doesn't release even once per month like he said it would, the releases he was giving out were micro content bullshit, yet he still has over 1000 subscribers at a minimum of 5 dollars a month and does not release his earnings, hows that for fucking transparency.
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                        Case in point Splendid fucking Ostrich I was a patron of his once.
                        <br/>
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                        Please note his patreon doesn't release even once per month like he said it would, the releases he was giving out were micro content bullshit, yet he still has over 1000 subscribers at a minimum of 5 dollars a month and does not release his earnings, hows that for fucking transparency.
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                     Oh god. Now that motherfucker is pretty much the gold standard of Patrion douchebag.
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                     Crap like that is why I think a lot of Patrion people really should move to a Per-Release model rather than a per-month model. Just don't count minor tweaks and bug-fixes as a release.
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                        Crap like that is why I think a lot of Patrion people really should move to a Per-Release model rather than a per-month model. Just don't count minor tweaks and bug-fixes as a release.
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                     Seconded, I wish we could choose our form of pledge. also to move back on topic I tend to go for a maximum of 30 dollars between all my pledges per month, if I find something I like more I do have to drop a dev.
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                     Being transparent is part of building trust when Nergal suddenly put a hold on his project he told people to leave and stop the donations...which is the right thing to do...if you promised a monthly update and can't hold the timeline be open about it push for more content the next month or stop charging monthly...these rules of conduct aside turning towards the black sheep...if you feel like it's a micro update and other patrons feel so too...if no news is delivered and no timeline uphold...well drop the pledge and at least the motivation to put in more work should be reignited...if not...at least it isn't you who's paying for it any longer...
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                    Dev of
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                     Most Monthly updates are at the cost of quality and are too small now. Better to have a huge update every 2 to 3 months than small updates that last 5 to 10 minutes. We use Patreon and Subscribestar as it's a means to get funding while making the game just because it's monthly cost does not mean people should expect something each month. People that do this as a hobby don't release that often as they have real jobs and lives that come first. I live in the US so I can't make a living off this speaking of which the horrible English writing in a good amount of Russian made games find a native writer to correct your stories so that they make sense. mind you a living wage where I live is $49,575 a year for one person
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                    After years of working on Dreaming of Dana, Intimate Relations, Life With Mary, and Haily's Story with Ptolemy
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                    I would love to put my Heart into something again
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                     If you don't want to donate to me I understand Check out
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