Wednesday, November 3, 2010

The Need to Feel Judaism - UPDATED














Chaim said...

You could be right, or it could be that the "frummer" element is so involved in "intellectual" and detail oriented Judaism that it isn't spiritually uplifting and meaningful anymore. How can you enjoy laining if your being batted over the head with "mapik hai's" and Shva Nachs? I once was in a uber-modern shul in Boston (Kadima)and the Baal Koreh lained like he was telling a story, with tons of emotion (I can't remember what parsha it was but it wasn't Pekudei). If you tried that in a Yeshiva minyan the'd have your head. As far as the "frummer" kids in modern schools, they are usually much more spiritually awake and in tune with Hashem through Tefilla and their limited learning than you find in classical yeshivos.

Anonymous said...


I think this blog post is absolutely CRACKED!!


Unknown said...

It reminds me of something I noticed years ago. The more frum a person is, the less likely to wear "Jewish" jewelry (star, chai, etc.).

Those for whom Judaism is their life, don't need a piece of Jewelry to proclaim it.

Jughead's Hat said...

This post is one of the main problems we face as separate communities. Sefardic vs. Ashkenaz, Chasidic vs. Litvish, Reform vs. Conservative vs. Orthodox, even Out of Town vs. In Town. We assume that what we have right now is the best. No other form of Judaism can live up to the level of Judaism we have now.
Most people have the following mentality: everyone to the right of me is a fanatic and everyone to the left of me is a liberal. I'm just right. And that's the way everyone feels about it. Clearly, SoP, you do as well. Describing anyone else's form of religiosity as "sub-par" is ignorant. Do you consider yourself to be "sub-par?" Guess what? Most Chassidim do.
You have to look no further than kashrus. What's good for me may not be good enough for you (cholov sta"m), but what's good for you may not be good enough for someone who only drinks Be'er Mayim "soda." Are you wrong? Am I wrong? Who is sub-par here?
The Conservative Jew who keeps kosher in his house, but goes to non-kosher restaurants, or the Reformed Jew who will eat everything but pig, do you think they are doing something wrong? Do you think they think they're doing something wrong? Both of those people have the same mentality: I am right and everybody who disagrees with me is either a fanatic or a liberal. Is it possible that more than one person is right?
Additionally, please clarify the Rebbe's statements because it sounds to me as though he felt that there was something wrong with a modern kid davening. I just tend to think that there is nothing wrong with that, even if the only type of Jew he is is pintela. I have always reserved that term for the guy who had nothing to do with Judaism and decided to take a trip to Israel on a whim. When he ends up becoming frum (yes, even if he becomes Modern Orthodox), he shows his Pintela Yid. I don't think that a day-school kid davening for the amud qualifies as that spark. He was, afterall, FFB. Possibly.

Unknown said...

Woa - slow down.

Take the time to read it carefully.

I never said the HA kid was sub-par. I was referring to the non-religious Jew where the Pintele Yid concept is generally talked about. The "guy who had nothing to do with Judaism and decided to take a trip to Israel on a whim" who most people, like you, reserve the Pintela Yid concept for. The whole point of my post is based on the proposal that the Pintele Yid isn't just for the sub-par Jew but for the Orthodox Jew as well.


Additionally, according to my point, it's irrelevant what other people think about you or what you think about other people. It's the feeling inside of you that you are going after.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

As for the Rebbe, you raise a good point. I happen to be know that the Rebbe didn't mean that it's a shame a HA kid is davening. The Yeshiva guys aren't seen much by the community except for out-shabbosim. His comment was based on the fact that it doesn't look good for the Yeshiva that when the BM guys come not a single one will daven time and time again. Hence the comment “It’s such a shame. We have ten or fifteen Yeshiva guys here and the only person that will daven is the Hebrew Academy kid?” (As opposed to the Yeshiva boys.)

Unknown said...

Wow, that is horrible.

Unknown said...

Rather than shred the individual lines in the post, this always brings to mind the famous story of a Rosh Yeshiva (I wish I could recall who) who asked his talmidim about a few psukim. The talmidim didn't know what he was referring to, and one piped up "Rebbe, we aren't ba'alei kriah, we don't know this." He replied sharply "Then maybe you should all become ba'alei kriah first."

I never understood why most yeshiva bochurim seem to view laining and davening as beneath them or something that's only to be done if they're paid for it.

I'm not sure why only in less yeshivish places there seems to be an understanding that frumkeit includes doing things for the klal, or knowing how to read from a Sefer Torah, or being involved rather than being a bystander. In the (very yeshivish) circles I grew up in, most guys did actually lain a bit in 7th/8th, but by the time I worked in Magen Av for a summer, I had to lain every single week for the earlier minyan because nobody else could.

In summary - it's not that those "modern" kids are missing something and trying to fill it - it's the Yeshiva guys in your post who are missing something and apparently have no clue.

I think the Rebbe is the one who actually got it: It's a shame that none of his bochurim will do something so important and basic. It's a bigger shame that they didn't even understand what he was saying.

Unknown said...

Ezzie -

I happen to agree with you. It's not a good thing that Yeshiva guys don't feel the need to daven and lain. And you are correct - they have no clue that they are missing something.

What brought me to write the post was a simple question; why did you have to lain every week? Had you been brought up in a more "modern" circle, chances are you would have had many people to share the laining with you.

While the Rosh HaYeshiva was correct, the fact is that none of his guys lained. Why not?

Kid at Zoo said...


daughtersintheparsha said...

if they go over the parsha "shnei mikra echad targum" throughout the week like they should, and they do it with the leining "trup" I think they wouldn't be that intimidated by getting up to lein. to be honest I thought your point was going to be how they are in front of a torah 13-16 hours a day and they want time off.

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