IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-05-21

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AStormah, it's been implemented by hand00:01
AStormstill need Python hildon bindings00:01
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AStormomg, maemopad+ stores full GC pixmaps for undo00:03
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johnxhey rm_you|00:09
rm_you|hey johnx00:10
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timelyAStorm: i use /invite00:19
timelybut i can never be sure if people see it00:20
timelyand i don't really care if other people seem me inviting ... if people join, i'll kick em :)00:20
hrwtimely: I did not noticed that invite00:22
hrwbut thats due to separate status window00:22
AStormok, what's the name of Python hildon bindings?00:23
AStormare there any?00:23
hrw anyone?00:23
lmouraAStorm, package python2.5-hildon00:23
AStormwhich Python package?00:23
AStormargh, no .py file00:24
* AStorm stabs00:24
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AStormno docs either00:25
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AStormoh no, a separate file dialog :P00:26
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Jaffahrw: link no worky (and s/ok.// gives 404)00:28
AStormsome seekrit server00:29
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BlafaselHrmpf. Nokia died today. At least everything S6000:29
hrwJaffa: its internal nokia server ;( I got that url as referrer to one of my blog posts00:30
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Jaffahrw: interesting00:32
BlafaselCan anyone comment on the inability of S60 to use S40 supported bluetooth profiles? Is that a known fact and I just ran into it blindly?00:33
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hrwBlafasel: iirc it is #maemo not #nokia00:40
timelyJaffa / hrw: fwiw, ok is a generic server, kinda like swift00:40
timelyit happens to host mailing list archives00:40
timelywhich is why it'd show up00:40
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RST38hgentlemen, how do I delete a branch from gconf during postinst?00:44
Saviqanyone savvy in why would canola not be able to read id3 tags from some songs of mine? I suppose it doesn't do ogg yet, either?00:45
handfulOf_nothinenter #canola we can help you (I lead the project )00:46
Saviqyeah I noticed the nick00:46
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RST38hhello handful00:46
handfulOf_nothinsavi : it indeed does, but it seems that tuomas support still with problems in his repos. .then we are waiting00:46
handfulOf_nothin: /00:46
Saviqdidn't know there was a channel00:46
handfulOf_nothinyes.. enter there we will get your files..00:46
handfulOf_nothinand try to debug..00:46
handfulOf_nothinit's possible a bug in our code : / so we need files from all around the world to improve the code :)00:47
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RST38hX-Fade: Here?01:20
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summatusmentis ??01:43
summatusmentisthat might be exciting :)01:43
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flo_lapUsing my s60 phones here I would say that there is no way to avoid this for Nokia.01:46
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flo_lapBasically s60 is not bad, but integration of "modern" features like wifi and sip is bad.01:48
summatusmentisflo_lap: you're talking about the linux thing I linked to?01:49
summatusmentisone of the comments discusses closed dev branches of maemo, how true is this?01:49
flo_lapsummatusmentis: yes01:50
timelyclosed dev branches?01:50
timelythere are various groups which go off into the woods doing strange things01:50
timelysometimes they never come back01:50
summatusmentis"Nokia is increasingly exerting proprietary control over Maemo via closed development branches, which will accelerate after the Trolltech acquisition is complete. This is one of the reasons why multiple developers have left Nokia's Maemo development team, citing philosophical differences within the company.01:50
summatusmentisYou'll soon see the S60 UI evolve to run atop the Maemo platform in place of Symbian. At that point, Nokia will own the whole widget, which is exactly what they've always wanted.01:51
flo_lapsummatusmentis: well... quite likely, but they won't tell you. I know Nokia does a lot of research with devices and Linux.01:51
timelymy guess is he's talking about the gtk devs01:51
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summatusmentisoh, I didn't see the update on that. maybe not specifically phones01:51
summatusmentisalthough, I'd love a carrier that had a linux phone worth purchasing01:51
timelyafaik the amount of closed code in maemo hasn't significantly increased in recent memory01:51
flo_lapsummatusmentis: quite likely, that's Nokias core competence - and they are really good with UIs01:52
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summatusmentisflo_lap: maemo based linux though?01:52
summatusmentisor some stupid linux + proprietary everything else like Moto does?01:52
flo_laptimely: Right, not for the tablets but there might be other projects.01:53
* timely shrugs01:53
flo_lapsummatusmentis: that's hard to guess... you never know01:53
timelyi suppose you could argue that skype and the 2008 maps apps are "closed source"01:53
jdiazhola lopz01:54
summatusmentisyeah... I hate all this guessing stuff :)01:54
timelyhowever, skype is a third party app01:54
timelyand maps is a bundled third party app01:54
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lopzheya jdiaz !01:55
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summatusmentiscan Nokia now fix the US flight system, so that there aren't stupid delays related to weather?01:57
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* timely offers summatusmentis a tornado warning01:59
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summatusmentistimely: that's the last thing I need. There is rain in Newark, and I've been delayed for 3 hours now02:02
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timelysadly, i don't think nokia has much experience dealing w/ tornados02:04
m-cre: closed source software, the important part is the software that enables the NIT hardware functionality remains free and open source02:09
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m-copen source and open API applications are awesome and much better than closed apps (like skype), but the software that runs the hardware is the most important software.  you can always just replace a closed sourced app.02:11
summatusmentism-c: I agre02:12
summatusmentisI'm worried that this is gonna change though02:12
summatusmentisall conjecture, obviously02:12
m-cas long as you have some GPL code in the wild to run your hardware, you're good for the long-term02:12
m-cunless your hardware depends on non-free infrastructure (WiMAX, for example).02:13
Navitimely, do you know where I can find the source to the old browser-ui?02:13
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summatusmentisalright, I'm gonna try and get on the plane again02:15
m-cno plane for you!02:15
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NaviAnyone know if there are any libfuse2 packages?02:26
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m-cgood morning, KotCzarny03:27
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KotCzarnyofftopic, but funny03:30
m-cI do not have my sound on, does it click as the dial spins back into place?03:33
m-cif so, that's terrifically retro03:33
shaprI do wish the dial actually clicked the number of times that was dialed though.03:34
shaprThat's how rotary phones worked, they sent clicks to tell a physical rotor to spin that much.03:34
shaprWe had that sort of purely physical exchange in my town when I was in high school.03:35
shaprI knew far too much about phone systems at that point in my life.03:36
m-cI was part of a network of computers that passed information from one local calling area to another, so we could pass messages across the state without paying long-distance charges.  :)  lots of information in those phone systems03:38
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NullM0demm-c: bbs :)03:39
m-cloved to stare at the local calling area maps, like I was placing units on a risk map03:39
NullM0demheh me too03:39
shaprm-c: FIDOnet?03:40
m-cactually, they wouldn't let us into fidonet, so we started our own net with the same software03:40
m-cyeah, and I just saw an interview with the guy who made it, who said he never intended it to be used as a centralized system03:41
m-cso, actually, the fork was exactly as he intended03:41
m-ccalled it yoginet and we got it all over the little state where I grew up, covered the whole thing.  might still be running03:42
m-cfidonet is still running and relevant - it is used where the internet data (but not data telephone calls) are censored03:43
shaprYeah, fidonet was much like UUCP03:44
shaprm-c: Dude, we're old.03:44
KotCzarnyssh over fido, mm03:44
m-cVietnam and Russia were used as an example03:44
m-chave you seen The BBS Documentary ?03:44
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shaprI was a heavy BBS addict during my teens though.03:45
m-cwell worth purchasing03:45
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shaprhah, I recently bought a Hayes 14.4k courier at a thrift store for $1.0003:45
m-cno dvd encryption, lots of extras, fascinating stories, nice quality03:45
shaprThe courier was awesome.03:45
shaprI remember learning about trellis coded modulation and all that other stuff...03:46
m-coh, creative commons licensed03:46
shaprWhat was the thing that had levels from 1 to 10?03:46
shaprmicrocom or something?03:46
shaprmnp? Microcom networking protocol?03:46
m-cI spent all my time working on my BBS, as long as the modem picked up, I was happy03:47
KotCzarnyand that was at the time without free local calls03:47
shaprI liked the technology.03:47
m-cand when I had to take it down for repairs, I learned I could twist the two copper telephone cables together to make the line busy03:47
shaprAh yes, it was MNP, levels 1 through 10.03:48
m-coh right03:48
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m-cI was thinking about going back to modems again, just because I am sick of paying $70 for internet, then I remembered how dog slow they were and how each packet has 300 ms of latency03:49
NullM0demm-c: i worked for a bbs when i was 13 - 14, we used TP board and fido net03:49
NullM0demyou would have to make a BBS type protal03:50
m-cthey had such portals even way-back-when03:50
NullM0demi was thinking about that today03:50
m-cwas the start of isps03:50
NullM0demIm sick of the current state of the net03:50
shaprI'm sort of unhappy with both my internet and my cellphone.. I noticed that there are wimax base stations that go for only $1500 USD03:50
m-cI am getting into community wifi03:50
NullM0demlike mesh?03:51
shaprBut I haven't found any client hardware that uses the unlicensed bands.03:51
m-cI say, let's get back to sharing only our community owned information03:51
m-cyes, like mesh03:51
shaprYeah, mesh networks rock!03:51
shapr802.11s, w00!03:51
shaprSpeaking of N800...03:51
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shaprI wanted to get the WiMAX edition until I discovered that it does not do the unlicensed WiMAX bands, and thus I would not be able to use it with wimax base station hardware that I could purchase myself for $1500.03:52
NullM0demm-c: arm based03:52
m-cwhat's wrong with arm based ?03:52
NullM0demim really into the idea of low power mesh03:52
shaprNow if someone figures out a way to hack the N800 WiMAX edition to use the unlicensed bands, I am totally buying it!03:52
NullM0demn810 WiMAX03:53
NullM0demi htink03:53
m-cI think the whole idea of wimax is for cell phones to take over the wifi03:53
shaprNullM0dem: Well, whatever.03:53
m-cI am not all that happy nokia is heading in that direction03:53
NullM0demhow about just hack the usb to attach to a device that uses unlicensed bands03:53
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shaprm-c: Yeah, but I'm only buying into that if I get the open-ness of wifi, not the closed-ness of cellphones.03:53
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NullM0demive never owned a cell03:53
m-cyes, iphone closed is bad03:53
shaprThe big benefit of wifi is that each device is a peer, it can be a server or a client.03:53
m-cNIT open is good03:54
NullM0demlove nit03:54
shaprThe big downside of wimax is that the clients cannot be peers (not that I can see).03:54
shaprSo unless I can buy client devices that handle unlicensed bands for which I can buy base stations, I'm not doing that.03:54
KotCzarnythe problem with local communities is that there is no free pr0n03:55
m-cis that a bigger downside than (1) it doesn't work inside, and (2) high latency, (3) doesn't scale?03:55
KotCzarnyand other licensed stuff03:55
KotCzarny(music, games, etc)03:55
shaprm-c: Explain?03:55
m-cKotCzarny: guess you never visited my bbs?  ;)03:55
KotCzarnym-c: well, i'm theoretically talking about perfect world03:55
m-cshapr: there are lots of problems with implementing wifi03:55
shaprNIT isn't as open as I wish it were.. I wish I could inject 802.11 frames with it.03:55
m-cKotCzarny: just about every bbs has an adult section, but it was rarely advertised03:56
NullM0demKotzCzarny: i have a friend who has dl's pr0n since the 95 96 era has multiple terayte raid just for it03:56
shaprWow, that guy needs a girlfriend.03:56
m-cthe bbs operators had "all access passes" to the other systems, in the area.  I had a good idea what everyone else ran03:56
NullM0demhe has a wife03:56
KotCzarnynm: but it has the 'stolen stuff' badge03:56
NullM0demthey ate both into it03:56
KotCzarnyhasn't it?03:56
shaprm-c: Yeah, being full peers is worth the downsides of wifi.03:56
m-cNullM0dem: that's so awesome03:56
NullM0demyeah true03:56
shaprNullM0dem: wow03:57
NullM0demi think its hilarious03:57
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NullM0demspent almost 2k on a backup system and raid setup just for pr0n03:57
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m-cit was so bad, too03:57
KotCzarnyhe should watch it on a high speed03:57
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KotCzarnyor mixed together03:57
KotCzarnyusually fixes such fixations03:58
NullM0demHe is not one of those holed in parents basements geeks either03:58
KotCzarnyanyway, the problem with mesh network is it's limited bandwidth/latency ?03:58
m-cmost of it was black and white and such bad resolution you had to use your imagination to figure it out03:58
NullM0demyeah mplaer *pron.avi03:58
NullM0demlike the C64 pron???03:59
KotCzarnym-c: imagination is the only working part03:59
NullM0demyou had to stand back03:59
m-cremember waiting 90 seconds for a high resolution playboy scan to load, and thinking my computer was going to explode from all the information03:59
m-cby hi-res, I mean 300x400 or something.  ;)03:59
shaprHas anyone tried the mesh networking olsrd for the NIT?04:00
m-cwell, maybe not that bad, but it was pretty sad04:00
shaprI had an amusing filesharing idea for the NIT...04:00
shaprset up ad-hoc networking, and an http server, and an http client that searches for certain fixed strings on others http servers.04:00
m-ccan a NIT be used for ad-hoc networking?04:01
KotCzarnym-c: yes04:01
shaprSo when you walk by some other NIT user on the street, you both check each other's file listings for whatever files you want.04:01
shaprPhysical file sharing can't be seen by the RIAA.04:01
KotCzarnyshaper: unless someone turns you in04:01
shaprHow would they know it's you?04:01
shaprI keep my NIT in my pants pocket.04:01
m-cmac address?04:02
KotCzarnyshapr: how do you know firmware isn't spying on you?04:02
shaprYou can change your mac address.04:02
ds3anyone irritated by the hover feature on ITT?04:02
KotCzarnyand since gps is embedded they could know you by your habits?04:02
shaprKotCzarny: I don't know that... that's one thing I don't like about binary blobs :-(04:02
KotCzarnyie. credit card + time04:02
KotCzarny+ location04:02
KotCzarny+ a big world wide db04:03
m-cnokia uses your mac address (printed next to the NIT battery) to identify your system04:03
shaprm-c: On the 770, you can insmod the cx3110x driver with the mac address.04:03
KotCzarnymac address can be changed04:03
shaprThere's a mac changer app for the N800, I assume it works the same way.04:03
KotCzarnyat least some people had theirs broken when playing with initfs etc04:03
* m-c would like to change it.04:03
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KotCzarnybut it doesn't need mac address to spy on you04:03
m-cI think everyone should change their mac address monthly04:03
shaprI tried to figure out how to hack the driver to inject 802.11 frames directly, but never could figure it out.04:04
KotCzarnyyour activity is much better proof04:04
m-cmac addresses are generally how your isp tracks you04:04
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m-cmuch harder to compile a list of all the websites you visited when you change your mac address04:05
KotCzarnyshapr: usb-wifi dongle?04:05
KotCzarnym-c: nope, cookies, ips etc04:05
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KotCzarnyassume everything is logged04:05
m-cfine to assume, but your isp uses your mac address04:05
shaprKotCzarny: If I could get either the 770 or the N800 to inject frames, I could use the 770 + 800 that I own to do paired injection and sniffing, and they could coordinate over bluetooth.04:05
m-cI regularly flip bits on my wifi router for that purpose04:06
m-coh, also, does the NIT use an open source wifi driver?04:07
KotCzarnynot quite04:07
shaprThe 770 uses the cx3110x driver, I don't know about the N80004:07
KotCzarnyshapr: n800 too04:07
KotCzarnythough with newer blob04:07
shaprIn that case, it's not really oss, since it requires a firmware binary blob.04:08
KotCzarnyastorm played with newer kernel and found out it's almost working prism54 over spi04:08
shaprAs far as I know, there is only one bit of hardware that does not use a binary blob for wifi, that's the BUG from buglabs.net04:08
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shaprWell, portable hardware... ath5k will be blob-free, iirc.04:09
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shaprKotCzarny: spi?04:09
KotCzarnykind of bus04:09
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shaprYeah, but do you mean it's almost working with the n800?04:10
m-csomeone told me the wifi drivers are rarely open because it would allow the card to be used in the licensed wireless spectrum04:10
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m-ctruth to that statement?04:10
shaprm-c: That's the claim, but I think it's gezeik.04:10
KotCzarnyshapr: that it all the pieces look fitting but someone has to hack on it to get it working04:10
shaprm-c: The rationale behind that is that most wifi devices are actually software defined radio devices.04:10
m-cthat's too bad04:12
KotCzarnyso, free the band?04:12
shaprm-c: So the wifi device manufacturers claim that if they released sufficient specifications that a truly oss driver could be written... then users would be able to violate the FCC's rules by broadcasting outside the wifi frequencies, or outside the power limits.04:12
KotCzarnyand move licensed bands to exclusive freq unreachable by customer devices?04:12
m-cisn't that like saying because software might let you do something illegal, no one can let you look at it?04:12
shaprm-c: Yes, I think so.04:12
KotCzarnyif you make something hard to do for most of the people it's less likely being done04:13
KotCzarnypeople are stupid04:13
KotCzarnyand ignore warnings04:13
KotCzarnyand etiquette04:13
m-cKotCzarny: because you might plot to rob a bank, I have to stop you from using IRC04:14
m-csorry - you have to go --- right now - bye04:14
shaprAnyway, that's the explanation the wifi device makers have given.04:15
shaprOn the other hand, devices like the GNU USRP are legally for sale.04:15
KotCzarnywouldn't it be possible to make a hw limiter and make sw open?04:15
shaprSo it seems to me that some enterprising device driver should get their device certified under the software defined radio device rules instead, and then sell it.04:15
m-cfrom what I hear - you do not want to screw with the fcc04:16
shaprKotCzarny: Yes, but I've heard that it's more expensive to make purpose specific hardware than it is to make very general hardware, limit it by software, and then sell different models for different prices.04:16
m-cso, that's probably why they make it hard to use their devices hard to mod04:16
m-cfrankly, I am surprised we have been allowed to use wireless phones and wifi04:16
m-calways felt like I was doing something bad by transmitting data04:17
shaprFor example... I have a Cambridge Silicon Radio bluetooth dongle that cost me $17USD...04:17
KotCzarnyyou transmit data all the time04:17
KotCzarnybody works on electricity04:17
shaprWith the right firmware, that dongle becomes a very expensive bluetooth sniffer.04:17
m-cheh - guess so04:17
ds3shapr: got a legitimate source for the said firmware?04:18
shaprNo, and of course I have never downloaded or used anything like that.04:18
m-cOT: I am looking for a USB WiFi dongle for my linux desktop.  any one know of one?04:18
ds3the RT73 based ones work04:19
shaprds3: Seen ?04:19
ds3shapr: *nod*04:19
m-ctrying not to use nsdiswrapper04:19
ds3RT73 has native drivers... rumor has it the latest kernel's RT2x00 driver will work for them (never tried, just tried the older rt73 driver)04:19
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KotCzarnyyeah, rt2x00 made into kernel04:20
ds3shapr: there is a reason I am asking for legitimate source of it :)04:20
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KotCzarny    "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."04:26
KotCzarny    - Isaac Asimov, author04:26
m-cshapr: so is that your project now?  bt sniffing?04:27
m-c... speaking of gaining wisdom ...04:27
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m-cinteresting paper though04:27
KotCzarnyVenezuelan broadcasting regulator Conatel has forced The Simpsons off the air during the morning cartoon hours, calling it a bad influence on children, and replaced it with ... Baywatch!04:30
Sebboh-hi.  I'm interested in a mobile device, but I don't know which one.  Can any of you give me some advice?  I'd like to find something that meets these requirements:  Fast cell-phone network internet access (3g I guess?), a camera with better than VGA, and GPS.  And, preferably, an open development platform! :)04:34
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KotCzarnyno gsm on n8x0 for now04:37
Sebboh-iPhone 1.x doesn't have any of those requirements. :)  (Oh, I love it, I own one.)04:37
KotCzarnyyou may wait some more04:37
KotCzarnythere should be many interesting devices released this year04:37
Sebboh-kot, any particular ones I should keep an eye on?04:38
m-cSebboh-: you know these maemo devices do not run on cell networks04:38
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KotCzarnysebboh: omap304:38
m-cwhich are closed-technologies04:39
KotCzarnythere is a rumour about n90004:39
KotCzarnybut no actual annoucments04:39
KotCzarnyso it's not a promise04:39
KotCzarnybut omap3 chips are there04:39
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KotCzarnyand they bring much power to the market :)04:39
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Sebboh-m-c, huh?  none of the maemo devices support cell networks?  Hm, yes, that makes sense..  The iPhone sorta threw a cog in the works when we got root access to the cell radio, huh? :)  I noticed that mere months after that, the big providers introduced unlimited minutes plans; presumably in anticipation of skype-over-cellular-IP..04:41
KotCzarnysebboh: not directly04:42
KotCzarnybut you can tether to a phone04:42
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KotCzarnyand use it to provide inet for you04:42
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m-cI use a cell phone and bluetooth to enable my device to access the internet.  t-mobile has had unlimited internet data plans for years, in the usa04:43
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mrglinuxhi what's different between nokia n810 and n810 wimax ?04:51
GeneralAntillesN810W has a WiMAX radio and is black/orange.04:52
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mrglinuxGeneralAntilles: just this?  so it's better than n81004:53
GeneralAntillesIf you want WiMAX or REALL REALLY like black/orange.04:53
m-cdoes it also have wifi04:53
m-cas well ?04:54
GeneralAntillesm-c, it's an N810 with a WiMAX radio slapped on.04:54
m-cmakes it hard to dislike something with all the openness of the N810 with a bit of optional closedness ;)04:54
mrglinuxand has it light behind key's of keyboard ? like mobile's04:55
GeneralAntillesWell, it's some closedness or nothing.04:55
GeneralAntillesmrglinux, N810 has blue/white light04:55
GeneralAntillesN810W has orange/white light04:55
mrglinuxGeneralAntilles: which one do you suggest  ?04:55
GeneralAntillesHere's a bad shot:
GeneralAntillesDo you have any use for WiMAX?04:56
GeneralAntillesAre you in a covered area?04:56
GeneralAntillesAre you willing to spend ~$40 a month for mobile broadband coverage?04:56
mrglinuxGeneralAntilles: no i think so ..but it is a tool04:56
GeneralAntillesCan you not easily substitute 3g or EDGE for mobile coverage?04:56
GeneralAntillesThe N810W is somewhere in the range of $70-$120 more expensive looking at street prices.04:57
GeneralAntilles(well, it's not actually out yet)04:57
mrglinuxGeneralAntilles: hmm.. i want buy one.. is see 415$ for n810 and 449$ n810w
mrglinuxbut i dont knoiw yet where do i buy it04:58
GeneralAntillesYou should be able to get the N810 for closer to $380 if you shop around.04:58
GeneralAntillesMaybe wait for some deals.04:58
GeneralAntillesThat ^04:59
mrglinuxi buy it from ebay05:00
GeneralAntillesAnother option.05:00
mrglinuxfor example?05:00
mrglinuxare they certain ? because ech low price maybe have problem or ...05:02
GeneralAntillesGotta be careful when shopping on ebay.05:03
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smackpotatowhere is webkit for qt do we have to compile it05:03
GeneralAntillesPresumably in the Qt repo.05:04
smackpotatoi wonder what its called05:05
mrglinuxGeneralAntilles which one do u have ?05:05
befordI read a couple days ago on this channel that qt4.4 + webkit was in the repo05:05
GeneralAntillesI have no desire for a hardware keyboard and underpowered GPS05:05
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smackpotatoya its on the maemo page today05:06
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mrglinuxGeneralAntilles: is both of camera same?(n800 and n810) i would like to see a picture of it to see the quality of that05:07
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KotCzarnyah, and n810 has light sensor05:07
KotCzarnyand sunlight readable screen05:08
GeneralAntillesThe N810's camera is apparently very slightly improved.05:09
mrglinuxGeneralAntilles is it 2 mega pixel ?05:09
KotCzarnyit's noisy.05:10
GeneralAntillesLess for webcam05:10
GeneralAntillesIt's a webcam05:10
GeneralAntillesnot a photo camera05:10
KotCzarnyand doesn't have a flash05:10
GeneralAntillesIf you want a photo camera, pick up a Canon A-series for $200. ;)05:10
KotCzarnyor second hand nikon for a 50$05:11
mrglinuxnot important :-D just linux  and programing ..and easy to work....05:11
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KotCzarnyyou can always try sdk05:12
KotCzarnyit has an emulator included05:12
tank-manthe screen on both the n810 and n800 look the same to me under sunlight05:15
GeneralAntillesYou're nuts, then, tank-man. ;)05:15
tank-mani compared it once on a sunny day05:16
m-cgen : which do you think is better?05:16
KotCzarnydepends on personal views05:16
KotCzarnyand needs05:16
GeneralAntillesThe N800 looks like this in sunlight:
GeneralAntillesI think the N800 is better because I already have one and don't need another N810 with GPS and a keyboard. ;)05:17
tank-mannot even the same angle05:17
GeneralAntillesFactoring in price differences, I still say N80005:17
GeneralAntillesBut that's just me.05:17
GeneralAntillestank-man, it's a joke.05:17
GeneralAntillesYou can't read the N800 in sunlight.05:17
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m-cI can't either05:17
Sebboh-GeneralAntilles, is there a good photo camera with a keyboard? :)05:17
Sebboh-(or on screen keyboard)05:18
GeneralAntillesWhy would a camera need a keyboard?05:18
KotCzarnyfor tagging05:18
KotCzarnybut some use .wav for that05:18
EruditeHermitis there a camera with built in microwave?05:18
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KotCzarnyeh: you mean wifi ?05:18
EruditeHermitI've always wanted that functionality05:18
GeneralAntillesThe feds put cameras in your microwave05:18
GeneralAntillesto watch you watching your leftovers05:19
shaprThe camera on my n800 is pretty bad.05:19
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KotCzarnymore light!05:19
EruditeHermitI could never get it to work with SIP either05:19
EruditeHermit1 way camera works05:19
Sebboh-anybody who has ever used an n800 or an iPhone knows why I want a portable computer with a decent camera.  I *love* the n95's camera.  (symbian, though?  eh...)05:19
EruditeHermitbut getting both the laptop video and n800 video never works05:19
Sebboh-And the n95 only has a keypad, right?05:20
EruditeHermitKotCzarny: I was kidding around with the microwave05:20
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KotCzarnyeh: but wifi operates in microwave freq, afair05:20
Sebboh-yes, wifi, wimax, cellphones, etc, all in the microwave range.05:21
m-cshapr: I pointed the n800 camera through some binoculars - worked pretty good!05:21
Sebboh-m-c heh.05:21
KotCzarnyhell of a mod05:21
m-cwas still grainy and fuzzy, but I took a picture of a boat 8 miles away05:22
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mrglinuxhow is quality of hardware .. i mean .. is it easy to damage for example if it fall down on the floor :-D (like my cellphone )05:24
KotCzarnyanything can break if you are unlucky05:25
KotCzarny(and if device isn't certified for such abuse)05:25
GeneralAntillesI've dropped my N800 more than once05:25
EruditeHermitI've dropped it a few times05:25
GeneralAntillesIt's fine.05:25
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EruditeHermitmy camera keeps popping out when I drop it though05:26
* m-c dropped his N800 many, many times.05:26
* m-c also just sent it in for repairs.05:26
KotCzarny'dropped it for repairs' ?05:26
EruditeHermitif anyone wants to send an n810 my way, feel free05:26
m-cI will get right on that05:27
EruditeHermitso who is going to hildonize OOo now that it has compiled for armel05:27
GeneralAntillesJust use Abiword. . . .05:27
EruditeHermitand the gimp05:28
EruditeHermitabiword is limited05:28
KotCzarnywhy do you need it hildonized?05:28
KotCzarnyit will work without too05:28
EruditeHermitbecause I don't have an n810 =p05:28
KotCzarnyyou don't need hildonization for that05:28
KotCzarnyjust use xvkbd05:28
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EruditeHermithey is it possible to run matchbox on a desktop i386?05:29
EruditeHermitwith hildon support05:29
EruditeHermitsuppose one were to buy a tablet PC05:29
KotCzarnythought it's not so bright idea05:29
* KotCzarny hates matchbox05:30
EruditeHermitwell I don't particularly like matchbox05:30
EruditeHermitI want handwriting recognition with hildon05:30
mrglinuxhow much is battery live if you want see a movie?? and can it connect to portable  cdrom ?05:30
KotCzarnythere are hwr apps05:30
GeneralAntilles4 hours, mrglinux.05:31
KotCzarnymrglinux: 3-5h, cdrom, possible with some hacking (soft and hardware)05:31
dmsuperman_has anybody had any luck in maemo/mediastreamer and a desktop/mediatomb working together?05:31
KotCzarnyeh: handwriting recognition05:31
GeneralAntillesdmsuperman_, try it with Canola?05:31
dmsuperman_What's canola?05:31
EruditeHermitKotCzarny: they don't look as elegant as hildon05:31
mrglinuxhow is it with asian language ? (os2008 i mean)05:32
GeneralAntillesOK once you add the fonts, as far as I understand.05:32
GeneralAntillesBut Nokia doesn't officially support any Asian countries (at least last time I checked)05:32
mrglinuxhmm very good05:32
dmsuperman_GeneralAntilles, this looks much better than mediastreamer, thanks for the suggestion i'll check it out ^.^05:33
GeneralAntillesdmsuperman_, Media player can also do UPnP05:33
mrglinuxis is so beautiful  :)05:33
GeneralAntillesIt's just stupid slow in Chinook05:33
mrglinux* it05:33
GeneralAntillesLook for a big improvement with Diablo05:33
dmsuperman_i don't even care about performance this second, i just want to get it working at all05:33
GeneralAntillesOf note, dmsuperman_, there's a network overhead involved if you're playing videos05:34
EruditeHermitGeneralAntilles: what is slow in Chinook, canola?05:34
GeneralAntillesUPnP, EruditeHermit.05:34
GeneralAntillesWith Media player/File manager05:34
KotCzarnyreading from mmc adds overhead too05:34
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dmsuperman_GeneralAntilles, I didn't plan on videos, I want to do a VPN from work so I can stream music easily from my desktop over the internet to my n80005:34
GeneralAntillesSo you'll have a lower bitrate/resolution ceiling with network playback.05:35
GeneralAntillesMusic there's no issue with05:35
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dmsuperman_except my up bandwidth is horrible so it'll probably still run like crap05:36
dmsuperman_but it's worth a try05:36
mrglinuxnokia n810 is made in where?05:36
KotCzarnymany places05:36
KotCzarnyfinland, korea, china05:36
mrglinuxnot different between these places ??? for quality ?05:37
KotCzarnydon't know05:38
KotCzarnybad batches happen everywhere05:38
mrglinuxKotCzarny how about your tablet ?05:38
KotCzarnyno problems, yet05:38
KotCzarnybut i haven't dropped it05:39
mrglinuxKotCzarny that screen is 640*480 ??05:39
KotCzarnyand don't plan to05:39
mrglinuxi mean what the size of screen in pixel ? :P05:40
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KotCzarny4.something "05:40
KotCzarnydevice is roughly size of usb 2.5" hdd enclosure05:41
unixSnobwhat's the correct term for "wear protection" in the context of SD chips?  you folks have discussed it a few times.. and I need to google it05:46
KotCzarnywear levelling05:46
mrglinuxNokia N810 Internet Tablet-Querty WiFi-2GB-NIB-NEW   means n810 wimax ?05:46
KotCzarnynot really05:47
KotCzarnylook for wimax in the name05:47
mrglinuxi cant find in ebay05:47
doc|homethe wimax one's not even released yet, is it?05:47
dmsuperman_damn it05:47
dmsuperman_it's not the client05:47
KotCzarnythen it's not available yet05:47
dmsuperman_though i do like canola much more05:47
m-cdoc|home: it is used in various forms05:47
dmsuperman_does anybody have any suggestions for getting a upnp media server and client to communicate across subnets?05:48
KotCzarnydmsuperman_: ssh tunnel ?05:48
doc|homem-c: ?05:48
m-cdoc|home: !!05:48
doc|homeyou lost me :)05:48
m-cdoc|home: you had me a "."05:48
GeneralAntillesmrglinux, WiMAX tablet is out in July.05:48
dmsuperman_KotCzarny, how would I get canola to find and read a upnp media server through an ssh tunnel?05:49
KotCzarnydmsuperman_: i don't know about upnp05:49
KotCzarnyi use sshfs for all my file sharing needs05:49
mrglinuxhmm ... in n810 default storage wax 2gb ?05:50
mrglinux** was05:50
KotCzarny2gb + minisd slot05:50
KotCzarnyn800 has 2x normal sized sd(sdhc) slot05:50
mrglinuxhave every one run open office on it..or is it possible ?05:52
mrglinuxi find this .. and i want buy it
doc|homeoh nice, is it horribly slow?05:53
doc|homeit's not oo.o if it's not horribly slow05:53
KotCzarnyever ran OOo on machine with 128mb of ram?05:53
doc|homegood god no :)05:54
KotCzarnythen it's safe to assume it's slow05:54
mrglinuxaaaa  =-O05:54
doc|homehey, look at that, wet water!05:54
KotCzarnydoc: ever heard about ice-9 ? ;)05:55
doc|homeI'd like it to work for spreadsheets to be honest :/05:55
doc|homeKotCzarny: the wm?05:55
KotCzarnydoc: no, s-f05:55
doc|homeah, in that case, no :P05:55
doc|homei'm getting gadget itch :/05:56
mrglinuxwhat is Mint Nokia N810 ?05:57
KotCzarnyprobably nib05:57
KotCzarnyor no scratchy05:57
doc|homemrglinux: mint = perfect condition05:58
doc|home ?!05:58
KotCzarnydoc: nevah!05:58
doc|homeI wouldn't buy an n810 unless it dropped the the price of an n80005:58
KotCzarnyand it's old news05:59
doc|homethey should have called it "Why my mommy now has massive boobs"05:59
KotCzarnyif n810 dropped to 150$, then sure, why not05:59
doc|homesure, i'd even buy one at that price :)06:00
GeneralAntillesIt will, eventually, doc|home.06:00
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GeneralAntillesBut there isn't much point in buying an N810 if you have an N800, anyway.06:00
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: yep06:00
GeneralAntillesWait for the N900.06:00
KotCzarnynot true06:00
KotCzarnymultiplayer games06:00
doc|homeI dunno, I like the idea of a hardware keypad06:00
KotCzarnyalso walkie talkie ;)06:01
KotCzarnyvid cam06:01
* m-c waits for the N9000 !06:01
KotCzarnyover 9000!?06:01
m-cdue out October 202006:01
KotCzarnybad news, our civilizations is due to destruction in 201206:01
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m-coh, so sad06:01
mrglinuxFeedback:100% Positive means it is certain ?06:02
KotCzarnynot really06:03
KotCzarnythere are scams that use stolen accounts06:04
KotCzarnythat's the fun of online auction sites06:04
doc|homemrglinux: it could be that he has happily sold 1000 straws to 1000 people06:04
doc|homefor  1c each06:04
doc|homeand people he knew at that06:04
mrglinuxi find it  do you accept it ?06:04
unixSnobI heard someone in irc say that CF cards do not have wear leveling, and SD cards do.  I'm having difficulty verifying that.  Most of what I see out it the wild states both CF and SD have internal wear leveling.06:06
m-cI got sold an empty box from a guy with 99% positive06:06
KotCzarnyunixsnob: not true06:06
KotCzarnyie. depends on manufacturer06:06
KotCzarnyyear of production06:06
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KotCzarnym-c: calculated risk?06:07
KotCzarnyfree money?06:07
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elbpay with a credit card, and keep the option for contesting the charge open06:07
m-cI let ebay / paypal handle the seemingly obvious dispute, instead of my credit card company.  they kept it in limbo for 60 days, then sided with the merchant06:08
m-canyway, never going to use ebay again  ;-)06:08
elbyeah, that's the story I always hear with paypal06:08
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dmsuperman_GeneralAntilles, is it possible to specify an IP to connect to in canola?06:12
GeneralAntillesDon't have a clue06:12
GeneralAntilles-> #canola06:12
dmsuperman_GeneralAntilles, the server and client are on different subnets, so it doesn't detect it06:12
GeneralAntillesThe idea behind UPnP is that it Just Works, though.06:12
KotCzarnydmsuperman_: maybe vpn ?06:12
KotCzarnyif i understand correctly host on vpn appears as it was local06:13
dmsuperman_is there an easy way to setup a vpn server on my desktop, which the n800 could connect to?06:14
dmsuperman_desktop is ubuntu06:14
unixSnobKotCzarny: is wear leveling support guaranteed in any of the types of media (cf, sd, etc)?  Or is it always variable?06:14
unixSnobWhat brands do not offer wear leveling, for example?06:14
dmsuperman_i'm not too familiar with vpns06:14
dmsuperman_so i'm not sure if you need some sort of special device just to do it, or if i _have_ to do it from my router06:14
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mrglinux i dont see ogg format in list of available formats .does it support it?06:15
befordthere's no official support for it06:15
unixSnobdmsuperman_: from what I hear, vpn servers are a pain in the ass to set up.. but perhaps easier w/ a router06:15
befordbut there are some players that play them06:16
KotCzarnyunixsnob: hard to tell, wear levelling isn't something you can check yourself with hdparm etc06:16
unixSnobdmsuperman_: why would you not want to use your router?06:16
m-cmrglinux: :( sad, but you have got to add another package for ogg support06:16
befordI read that latest canola release support ogg06:16
mrglinuxbut ogg is free and its orginaly on linux oss before another formats06:16
mrglinux* os06:16
dmsuperman_unixSnob, The whole problem is that my router is what's causing the issue. I have a pfSense box with 2 interfaces. My client, the n800, is on one interface (subnet 192.168.3) and my server, my desktop, is on th other (
dmsuperman_unixSnob, so KotCzarny suggested to create a vpn between them, because upnp doesn't work cross subnets06:17
dmsuperman_unixSnob, I tried creating a virtual ip with the router but that hasn't seemed to work06:17
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mrglinuxis it easy work with printer? like normal linux ?06:19
|penguinbait|If you install KDE, its just like normal linux running KDEand cups06:25
mrglinuxhave anyone played supertux on it ? :P06:27
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mrglinuxor PlanetPenguin Racer06:28
dmsuperman_so does anybody know how i can specify, with any media player at all, an ip for my upnp media server?06:28
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unixSnobinstalling kde to get printing capability seems like killing the chicken with a machine gun.06:28
GeneralAntillesDebian chroot would likely be an option, too.06:29
GeneralAntillesOr install CUPS and print from the command-line.06:29
unixSnobdamn small linux has a way of printing w/out using cups.. it's a very lean driver set06:29
mrglinuxGeneralAntilles: how about 3d games?  :)06:29
unixSnobalthough it doesn't support as many printers06:29
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GeneralAntillesmrglinux, a few06:29
GeneralAntillesCheck out the gaming forum on itT06:30
GeneralAntillesor pupnik.de06:30
GeneralAntillesDoom, Quake I/II, Warzone 210006:30
mrglinuxGeneralAntilles: ok06:30
|penguinbait|somebody compiled lpr06:30
|penguinbait|look on itt06:30
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dmsuperman_does anybody know how to get vlc on maemo?06:43
GeneralAntillesSure, download it and install it06:43
GeneralAntillesbut why?06:43
GeneralAntillesmplayer is much, much better optimized.06:43
dmsuperman_GeneralAntilles, can I specify an IP to browse a upnp server with mplayer?06:44
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mrglinuxGeneralAntilles: can play it divx format ?06:44
GeneralAntillesDoes VLC even do upnp?06:44
GeneralAntillesmplayer plays just about everything possible on maemo06:44
dmsuperman_GeneralAntilles, i think it does upnp06:44
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dmsuperman_GeneralAntilles, I just need to find anything that will let me connect to my upnp server06:44
dmsuperman_GeneralAntilles, I need to be able to specify a port though, because they're on different subnets and therefore the upnp server won't broadcast itself to the client06:45
dmsuperman_specify an ip though*06:45
mrglinuxthe itt is very dark and hard to read..06:51
GeneralAntillesAll the way on the bottom left corner of the page, mrglinux.06:51
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GeneralAntillesThere's a dropdown for theme06:51
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Zxcvbdo the nokia n800/810 have a failsafe/bootblock mode or can firmware updates actually brick the handheld?06:56
Zxcvbto which one?06:57
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GeneralAntillesFirmware updates can render the bootloader non-functional requiring a cold flash using a JTAG cable.06:57
shanellegrangerHey yall06:57
GeneralAntillesBut I've never actually seen anybody manage that feat.06:58
shanellegrangerCan the Nokia N770 be used as a cellphone?06:58
GeneralAntillesand only heard of two cases of people bricking by writing to the mtd block for NOLO with the tablet booted.06:58
GeneralAntillesNo, shanellegranger.06:58
GeneralAntillesIt has wifi and bluetooth06:58
Zxcvbwhat does the jtag cable involve?06:58
shanellegrangerGeneralAntilles - but can you use it like skype phones, where you use a bluetooth microphone and connect to the internet to make a call?06:59
GeneralAntillesbut that's not a cellphone07:00
GeneralAntillesThat's VOIP07:00
GeneralAntillesCellphones have cellular radios. ;007:00
shanellegrangerI gotcha07:00
shanellegrangerI gotcha07:00
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Cellphones have cellular radios. ;)07:00
shanellegrangerWhat software would you need to make a Nokia N770 a VOIP phone?07:00
GeneralAntillesGizmo or Skype07:01
GeneralAntillesOr the built-in SIP client07:01
GeneralAntillesTake your pick, whichever suits your needs best.07:01
shanellegrangerThere's skype for the Nokia 770?07:01
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'd choose Gizmo if you can07:02
GeneralAntillesi.e. you don't already have a bunch of contacts using Skype07:02
GeneralAntillesIt's just Jabber/SIP, so you can pretty much connect to Gizmo with anything07:03
GeneralAntillesrather than needing a proprietary Skype client.07:03
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ricko73the included SIP client works well07:06
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NaviSo, nothing interesting going on?08:15
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RST38hI have put a new iNES online08:21
RST38hif you had speed problems, get a new version from the web site (repository still does not have it)08:21
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GeneralAntillesGuess the Diablo update repo isn't working anymore.08:22
GeneralAntillesStupid Nokia08:22
NaviRST38h, sweet08:22
NaviRST38h, my speed problems were minor, I think08:23
NaviIt was 20 ticks in 11-12 seconds08:23
Naviin SMB08:23
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RST38hThat is NOT a speed problem08:25
RST38hThat is measurement error ;)08:25
RST38hWhere is X-Fade when you need him?08:26
GeneralAntillesHiding, probably.08:26
GeneralAntillesLazy bastard.08:26
NaviI totally had the seconds counter right next to the screen :P08:26
RST38hThe SSH certificate parsing at side is broken again08:26
RST38hGot a request to change my certificate from him, pasted fresh certificate, kaboom, no longer works08:27
NaviBesides, it _felt_ slow08:27
RST38hNavi: SMB simulates inertia a little bit. That is why it feels slow08:27
NaviI occasionally speed run SMB08:28
NaviI know what it feels like08:28
RST38hBut if my fps counter says "no timer overruns, 58-62fps" then it IS 58-62fps =)08:28
NaviIs the sound supposed to be studdery?08:28
GeneralAntillesstuddery? :P08:28
RST38hit's not. still working on it though.08:28
GeneralAntillesLearn something new every day.08:29
RST38hs/studdery/stuttery ?08:29
NaviSorry General Spelling08:29
RST38hNavi: anyway, get a new version and check - it will also consume less cpu08:30
RST38hmay fix the sound problem afaik08:30
GeneralAntillesNavi, when are we gonna get a picture of you on the bus playing iNES with your Wiimote for thoughtfix's new article? :P08:30
NaviI don't take the bus, but I'll get a friend to take one of me walking around campus some time08:31
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GeneralAntillesHow about you driving stick while playing iNES with your Wiimote?08:31
NaviThat'll work too08:31
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RST38hwith N810 hanging on a string from the ceiling08:35
NaviRST38h, you know what happens when you remove the start button on the center dpad, right?08:35
RST38hBT keyboards stop working08:35
RST38hI have made a "fix" for that, of sorts08:36
NaviThis release fixed the speed problem08:36
NaviSound is luls, but the game is actually fun to play now08:36
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RST38hThe GDK_Return will continue to work, but you have to hold one of the modifiers for that (control, shift, or alt)08:37
NaviWe have a decent NES emulator now \o/08:38
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KotCzarnywhat's a nes?08:38
NaviObviously not a Kot08:39
NaviRST38h, I have a suggestion08:40
NaviIt would be nice if A/B had an overlap area set up in which both buttons are pressed08:41
RST38hKot: aka Dandy08:41
KotCzarnynavi: good idea08:41
RST38hNavi: !08:41
Navialso, there is some black bar room on the right side to show exactly where select/b/ab/a/start are without getting in the way08:43
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Navipeople might still complain, so it could always be a toggle feature if you feel like adding it08:44
RST38hWhere do you need to press both a and b?08:44
NaviFew games08:45
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Naviat the very top of my head since it's still fresh, mario08:45
GeneralAntillesMario's at the top of your head?08:46
GeneralAntillescreepy. . . .08:46
corevetteon my nokia 770 w/ 0s2007HE, i installed a custom theme with custom buttons...but after uninstalling the custom theme...i cant get the original buttons do i?08:46
Navicorevette, the original icons?08:46
corevetteyes, on the left side08:46
RST38hboth buttons in mario? why? how?08:46
corevetteand status bar icons08:46
KotCzarnywas it star trek related or something?08:46
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NaviRST38h, to have complete jump control without having to let go of B for running08:47
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, Diablo update repo work for you?08:47
NaviAlso, in SMB3, you have the raccoon suit08:47
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Haven't tried it yet. But I have been getting those errors for a while and it's been working fine.08:47
NaviIn which you can flick your tail and jump at the same time08:48
Navior hover and flick your tail08:48
KotCzarnynavi == furry?08:48
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NaviKotCzarny, I love you08:49
NaviRST38h, I have a few more mario-related examples, and I can give you some non-mario stuff once I look at a game list08:50
NaviCharging and jumping at the same time in Mega Man08:52
KotCzarnyactually it's a fitting idea08:54
KotCzarnybecause the way that touchscreen works08:54
KotCzarnyie. if you press it in two places x give you average x,y08:54
KotCzarnyso it would be trivial to implement08:55
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KotCzarnyand would work even if a&b were pressed with 2 fingers08:55
RST38hNavi: I see08:56
RST38hqwerty: get a new copy of ines off the web pag08:56
qwerty12RST38h, Will do08:56
corevetteNavi: do you have a solution to my problem?08:56
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NaviOh, sorry about that. GeneralAntilles, don't you know how to fix this?08:57
GeneralAntillesAssuming it's LCARS, uninstall the lcars-extras package and reboot.08:57
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Naviqwerty12, it's totally faster09:09
Naviand awesome09:09
qwerty12Cool :)09:09
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NaviIs wiicontrol konttori's project?09:15
qwerty12I think he works on it with jdiaz09:16
qwerty12They are both listed as admins of the project09:16
pupnikRST38h: ever hear my 'fix' for fceu NES emulator sound?  (I fixed the problem eventually)
Naviha, pun09:18
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pupnik:) Navi09:18
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GeneralAntillesNow this is cool:
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qwerty12I need a Hummer first09:21
pupnik  Dyn-O-Mite!09:21
NaviThere's no debian files for wiicontrol in the svn repo09:21
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Move to Texas and work for Nokia :p. Then we would see improvements... "Wow, GA beated me at commenting here about that post."09:22
roopeor move to Helsinki. :)09:23
NaviHelsinki would be the best bet09:23
NaviTexas doesn't want GeneralAntilles anyways09:23
qwerty12Now, I wouldn't mind moving to Helsinki but that's because I'm already in Europe.09:24
KotCzarnyopen source car?09:24
roopeyour next computer can be a big-ass table.09:24
qwerty12SSH vulnerability means it can be like RC car...09:24
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Naviroope, woo09:24
KotCzarnyroope: i prefer my computers to be portable09:24
NaviYou watched the MS Surface spoof too?09:25
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KotCzarnywell, at least one09:25
roopeYes, it's well made.09:25
KotCzarnystolen technology09:25
KotCzarnyas usual09:25
KotCzarnythe only good thing is they popularize the idea09:26
roopeWell. Apple "steals" just as much, but when apple does it, everybody cheers.09:26
* KotCzarny not09:28
roopeDeveloping good ideas further. I don't really believe that it's usually stealing. Ideas are to be utilized.09:28
KotCzarnyroope, ever heard about patents?09:28
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roopeIn theory ideas are not patentable. At least in Europe. :)09:29
roopebut note "in theory".09:29
KotCzarnydo you believe m$ would give people free will to use ideas they have patents on?09:29
KotCzarnymoney, money, money09:29
roopeOf course business is about money.09:29
KotCzarnybad idea09:29
roopeIt's not a charity.09:29
KotCzarnywe are people09:30
KotCzarnyin the end what would you use all that money if you die?09:30
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KotCzarnyor destroy your planet?09:30
roopeMoney enables building strong organizations that then permit you do to things that you couldn't otherwise do.09:30
roopeThen again, Bill Gates is taking his money to good use.09:31
roope(with his foundation).09:31
KotCzarnyanother problem with money (and power in general) is that it corrupts09:33
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pupnik Everything You Love You Owe to Capitalism
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KotCzarnyit's not only about capitalism09:34
KotCzarnyit's true for any kind of power09:34
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NaviRST38h, can you change the key mappings for the keyboard?09:35
KotCzarnyThe sleepiest animal in the world is the koala, who sleeps 22 hours a day.09:36
qwerty12KotCzarny, Your record was beaten!09:36
KotCzarnyhow do they procreate?09:36
KotCzarny2h/day leaves little time frame09:37
qwerty12I don't really wish to find out :p09:37
KotCzarny    "Television is the device that has changed a generation of youngsters from an irresistible force into immovable objects."09:37
KotCzarny    - Anonymous09:37
roopei've been now without a television for about 2 years. it's highly recommendable.09:38
* KotCzarny is without tv since high school09:38
KotCzarnybut hooked on the internet instead09:38
qwerty12I've got a TV but I never watch it. I prefer watching stuff of my computer and the cinemas.09:38
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GeneralAntillesHehe, computers are the new TV.09:39
KotCzarnybecause it's two way device09:40
KotCzarnytv sucks because it only programs you09:40
qwerty12My favourite channels are things like mininova, rapidshare, mediafire etc09:40
KotCzarnyi like irc09:41
pupnikwell said KotCzarny09:42
qwerty12hip hip hooray09:42
KotCzarnyTetris + Arm Wrestling = Tresling!09:43
qwerty12That's geekish and yet not so geekish09:43
KotCzarnyreminds me of chessboxing09:44
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KotCzarnyanyone wanna waste some time with xtris?09:45
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KotCzarny(multiplayer tetris for those who don't know)09:46
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RST38hall right, back09:48
trickie_KotCzarny: one of the most awful sounds in the world is a koala 'procreating'09:49
trickie_KotCzarny: its lucky they sleep that long, else you would have to listen to more of it09:49
RST38hNavi: you cant but it should not be much of a problem09:49
KotCzarnytrickie_: how do you know it? :)09:50
trickie_KotCzarny: im from .au and had them in my backyard when i was small09:50
trickie_KotCzarny: used to freak me out09:50
KotCzarnygot any recordings?09:50
RST38hKot: koala is also known for being on continuous pcp diet09:51
RST38hit is probably the only known narcoanimal in the world09:51
trickie_ha ha, luckily no, but im sure there is one on the interwebs somewhere, it usually takes most people by surprise09:51
KotCzarnyfound on youtube09:52
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trickie_enjoy :)09:52
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KotCzarnystrange, indeed09:53
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* RST38h wonders if a non-fp Vorbis codec exists at all =)11:02
kulveRST38h: a.k.a. tremor?11:03
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mmrok have a question if anyones in11:05
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mmrie answering11:05
RST38hkulve: guess so11:05
mmrso any idea how to play files on a network share on mplayer11:06
KotCzarnymplayer http://somehost/somefile11:06
KotCzarnyunless you talk about samba11:06
mmrwindows network share11:07
KotCzarnyyes, samba11:07
mmrso how would i go about it11:07
KotCzarnygoogle for mplayer samba11:07
KotCzarnygmplayer smb://user : pass @ server/share/file.mpg (take out the spaces after smb)11:08
mmri was wondering if there isnt an easier without using the command line11:08
KotCzarnyyes, you can try mounting the share11:08
RST38hyes, you can go directly to that Windows machine and click a mouse button11:08
KotCzarnymount -tsmbfs //server/share /mnt/FOLDER -o username=USERNAME_HERE,password=PASSWORD_HERE11:09
KotCzarnybut you will need smb or cifs module11:09
mmrinteresting i can see the windows share from file explorer on the n80011:09
KotCzarnythe same way as mplayer11:09
mmrand i can click on it and it will launch the default player11:09
KotCzarnybut it needs app to be compiled with samba support11:09
mmrhowever when i go into mplayer file open11:10
KotCzarnywith mounting you can play them as local files11:10
mmrand select it from there11:10
mmrit dosent play11:10
mmri can see it witohut mounting11:10
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RST38hyou can install uPnP server on your windows machine11:10
RST38hAnd open stuff in the new Canola uPnP plugin!11:10
mmrstill ratherclunky11:11
KotCzarnyand have canola scanning 200gb of files?11:11
mmrmake that 700gb11:11
KotCzarnyand i remind you it's ~500-800kb/s11:11
KotCzarnydue to spi  bus :)11:11
GeneralAntillesCanola + UPnP is the route I would go.11:12
AStormKotCzarny: nah, prism54 over SPI was a separate patch11:12
RST38hKot: My assumptio is that the upnp server does the scanning11:12
* KotCzarny hates media libraries11:12
KotCzarnyastorm: but wifi chip is so slow anyway11:12
mmris there no way of playing them over samba direct11:12
AStormKotCzarny: sure it is ;P11:12
KotCzarnywifi: well, maybe not chip but transfers over it11:12
mmrand i can see the file in the open dialog box in mplayer11:13
KotCzarnyrst: i haven't seen upnp plugin in canola yet, so i can't comment how effective it is11:13
mmrbut clicking on it does nothing11:13
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mmrhas anyone else tried playing media files from the open dialog box in mplayer11:14
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johnxI think mplayer doesn't use gnome-vfs which is what the tablet uses for samba support11:16
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johnxyou could just use mount.cifs or fuse+smbnetfs11:17
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johnxbut you'd have to mount it from the CLI or a script when your WLAN connection comes up11:17
KotCzarnythere is samba for fues? great11:17
johnxKotCzarny, there's two or three :)11:18
KotCzarnyjohnx: script can be put in menu :)11:18
johnxactually I was thinking a nice script that got called by dbus-scripts when WLAN came up with the right SSID11:18
johnxwould make everything nice and automated :)11:18
KotCzarnyassuming you want such automation11:19
mmrgotcha all11:19
johnxI do in fact :)11:19
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mmrthanks for suggestions11:19
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KotCzarnyAfter decades of US investments in China, it seems that the pendulum is swinging back. Today, many Chinese firms are pleasantly surprised to find that land, energy, and operating costs are actually cheaper in the United States as compared to China!11:19
mmron a side note has anyone noticed with the new version of mplayer the n800 is really a pmp11:19
johnxsure. thanks for the nudge. I've been putting off getting this working, but I'll look at it on the train today11:19
mmrthe train11:20
mmris that on vpn11:20
johnxnah, offline11:20
mmrah lol11:20
johnxI think I can write the script without internet access...I've typed the same commands so many freaking times11:20
mmrive been trying to get openvpn working to little success11:20
johnxI'll debug it when I get home11:20
mmryup makes sense11:20
RST38hKot: I told you that would happen!11:21
RST38hCheers to the new land of outsourcing - The United States of America!11:21
mmrcan u imagine the day when chinese banks outsource call centres to the us11:21
* RST38h , for once, has been working for our Chinese overlords for the last 3 years11:21
mmrstart learning mandarin guys11:21
johnxmmr, that will be so painful for Chinese customers O_o11:22
KotCzarnynah, AIs are the future11:22
mmrwell it will be our revenge11:22
mmrwe suffered for years now it your turn11:22
RST38hKot: Dan Simmons, Hyperion!11:22
RST38hmmr: You mean they wil have to deal with our broken mandarin?11:22
KotCzarnystill, there will be shuffle in money deposits11:22
RST38hSpoken with Kentucky accent?11:23
RST38hHow do you say "Dear" in Chinese? =)11:23
mmrin a callcentre do you hear the word dear often?11:24
* mmr rolls his eyes11:24
RST38hmmr: That is what you often hear from mid-western call centre workers11:24
RST38hApparently, this is how they address customers there11:24
mmrdoes that make them over 40 stay at home moms11:24
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RST38hmmr: who would doubt?11:25
RST38hthat is what most us call center workers are, ain't they?11:25
mmri wouldnt know11:25
mmrim form the uk11:25
mmrim from11:25
mmrand all our are indian11:25
mmrunder 3011:25
mmrand polite to an annoying level11:26
RST38hAs close to AI as it possibly gets?11:26
mmrtheres nothing like having a tiff on the phone to release tension11:26
mmryet they never oblige11:26
RST38hThere is a way to deal with them11:26
mmrget under the skin11:26
pupnikalways play a porno vid in the background during your tech call11:27
mmrwaits with baited breath11:27
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RST38hYou can't get under the skin of a guy like this11:27
RST38hBut always remember that he follows a script when speaking to you11:27
* sp3000 hooks mmr's breath and goes fishing11:27
mmrits kinda hard to forget11:27
RST38hSo, your goal is to hack that Indian so that he hits an exception in his script11:27
mmrai indeed11:27
KotCzarny'now reboot. but i did it 3 times. please reboot'11:27
RST38hOnce the Indian hits an exception, he is supposed to transfer you to a higher level of support11:28
mmrthanks sp300011:28
pupnikah good point RST38h11:28
mmrive just brushed my teeth11:28
KotCzarnyrst, ah, it's a game11:28
RST38hYou can expect to speak with a Brit (or American in the US) starting with level 3 or 411:28
KotCzarnyand the winner gets his case resolved :)11:28
mmri think not11:28
RST38hyes, basically11:28
mmrive been transfered to higher indians11:28
mmrand then higher11:28
RST38hmmr: at the end, you will still get a local11:29
mmrtill i speak to the prime minister11:29
RST38hAt least this is how it works in the US11:29
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mmrwho deals with all REALLY bad call centre problems11:29
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RST38hmmr: When you speak with that prime minister, ask them to nuke that Pakistan already11:29
mmrtsk tsk11:29
mmris there a script for that?11:29
RST38hmmr: We have all bought gas masks and dark glasses and are eagerly awaiting the fireworks!11:29
* mmr shakes his head11:30
pupnik /exec -o ~/nuke_france.sh11:30
RST38hhey, don't destroy the cheese11:30
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mmror the wine11:31
RST38h(and no, we still need Finland, in case it were your next favorite target)11:31
* pupnik loves france11:31
mmrbut all nokias are made elsewhere today11:31
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legindwhere is the modules directory for os2008?11:34
KotCzarnyit doesn't matter as much where they are made, but where they are designed11:34
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kulvelegind: kernel modules? In the default installation? In initfs11:35
legindand I can copy the modules I want there to modprobe them?11:35
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kulvefor that you need to install them properly in the right place11:36
KotCzarnybut you can copy them to /lib/modules11:36
KotCzarnythen you can modprobe them11:36
legindaha! thanks KotCzarny11:36
KotCzarnyassuming modules.dep is updated11:36
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kulveI think installing the module with INSTALL_MOD_PATH and then copying them to the device should work?11:37
KotCzarnytry: cp -a /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/* /lib/modules11:37
kulveKotCzarny: I don't think modbrobe looks modules directly under /lib/modules11:37
KotCzarnykulve: there is 2.something dir in that initfs dir11:38
KotCzarnyso this line is correct11:38
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kulveah, yes11:38
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kulvebut I still think the INSTALL_MOD_PATH would be the correct way to do it11:39
kulvenot sure how that handles any existing modules though..11:39
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legindim getting: cp: cannot create directory '/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1': No such file or directory11:42
KotCzarnymkdir /lib/modules then11:42
KotCzarnythen cp11:42
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legindthen copy my desired new modules , depmod -a, and modprobe?11:43
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KotCzarnyi don't know if depmod is available11:44
KotCzarnyso you will probably have to edit it by hand11:44
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KotCzarnyor create it somewhere else11:44
KotCzarnybut syntax is trivial11:44
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kulveno depmod11:44
legindi don't need to depmod then?11:45
KotCzarnyyou can edit it by hand11:46
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legindah modules.dep11:47
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myschi. any objective suggestions on sdhc cards? transcend/patriot/sandisk/kingston?12:12
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hrwmysc: avoid kingston ones12:12
RST38hhello hrw12:12
KotCzarnyhrw: why?12:12
RST38hsandisk. use plain sd adapter if you have to.12:13
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hrwKotCzarny: because they are very random quality12:13
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KotCzarnyhrw: any more info?12:13
GeneralAntillesSanDisk is stupidly overpriced.12:13
GeneralAntillesI've used a lot of Transcends and they've always been fine for me.12:13
hrwKotCzarny: most of my problems with sd cards (i/o errors, timeouts) were with kingston cards12:13
RST38hnot if you buy it via mail order12:13
myscsandisk is overpriced. and i've had issues with kingston ddr im not surprised to hear about shoddy sd's12:13
hrwKotCzarny: not to mention that kingston only brand cards not manufacture12:13
GeneralAntillesCompared to the other brands it's still overpriced.12:13
KotCzarnyi have 2 kingston sdhc cards12:14
RST38hhrw: don't buy in Eastern Europe12:14
KotCzarnyand both are fine12:14
KotCzarnyslow, but fine12:14
KotCzarny(4 and 8gb)12:14
RST38hhrw: 'case resellers will just buy a box of cheapest chinese cards and sell it to you12:14
hrwRST38h: same in .us12:14
RST38hhrw: and the labelling does not mean a thing12:14
leginddo I simply put all the modules in modules.dep with a colon after them? i'm not sure about the dependencies12:14
myscso between patriot/transcend/a-data, any one significantly better?12:14
RST38hhrw: easier to get sued in us12:14
hrwlegind: just run 'depmod'12:15
RST38hhrw: lots of lawyers just waiting for a case like that12:15
hrwRST38h: I have no problem with other cards12:15
myscoh, another thing, are the cleartouch protectors any good?12:15
hrwRST38h: even my noname 1GB card works everywhere12:15
legindhrw, I thought I had to hand craft it12:15
hrwmysc: brando ones?12:15
RST38hhrw: means you have been buying them from a decent place =)12:16
leginddepmod isn't available12:16
hrwRST38h: any random shop12:16
myscby boxwave, i think.12:16
GeneralAntillesmysc, I have 3.12:16
GeneralAntillesThey're fantastic12:16
GeneralAntillesI recommend the anti-glare, though.12:16
KotCzarnyHere's something unexpected about the rising price of gasoline: old mechanical pumps were designed during the time when $4 per gallon was simply unthinkable, so the rotary dials didn't have gears to go beyond $3.99 a gallon!12:16
myscgreat!. do you also have their rubberized condom for the n800?12:16
GeneralAntillesThe Brando ones are knock-offs.12:17
* RST38h has the cleartouch - very difficult to apply at least on n81012:17
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GeneralAntillesmysc, it blocks the stand and ports12:17
GeneralAntillesi.e. useless12:17
myscshit. thanx, that goes off the cart.12:17
myscso what do i use to replace the nokia standard "grandma eyeglass case" that i got w/ my n800?12:17
GeneralAntillesFor a pocket case? Dunno12:18
RST38hdepends on what you need it for12:18
GeneralAntillesFor a backpack case, I like the case logic 2.5" hard drive case.12:18
RST38hI ordered a leather case from the same Boxwave12:18
myscto protect it. there's a metallic case boxwave makes for the n810...nothing for the n800 though :(12:18
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RST38hit does block USB and the stand, but I do not use these12:18
GeneralAntillesStand is the best feature.12:18
RST38hga: not on a bus :)12:19
* KotCzarny rarely uses usb and stand12:19
GeneralAntillesIt's great for reading ebooks on the couch12:19
GeneralAntillesLie on my side, set the N800 on the coffee table with the stand open.12:19
RST38htrue, but you can just set the device against a pillow. Crude but works12:19
AStormand get a neck twist? ;P12:20
GeneralAntillesNo it doesn't12:20
legindcan I get depmod for os2008?12:20
GeneralAntillesYou move around and it falls over12:20
RST38hworks for me12:20
AStormlegind: you don't need it, but if you want it, it's a major mod12:20
GeneralAntillesAStorm, FBReader rotates. . . .12:20
RST38hdoes not easily fall over when in a leather case12:20
myschrmm, so i thought mebbe flash-3.0 would not work on my slack box but it was like a charm12:20
AStormGeneralAntilles: but you still get a neck twist ;P12:20
legindAStorm, I'm not sure how to hand-craft depmod based on this12:20
RST38hAStorm: Our necks are permanently twisted by now, so it does not matter12:21
AStormwhy do you need that?12:21
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AStormRST38h: :P12:21
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myscokay, so cleartouch in, n800 condom out, what else should i get? a replacement battery is $59!!! (and btw, nokia website no longer even features n800 for accessory search or compatability cross-checks)12:22
GeneralAntillesYou can get batteries cheaper.12:22
KotCzarnycheaper != better12:22
AStormBP-5L is cheap12:22
RST38hmysc: Get the largest SDHC card you can find under $8012:22
AStormeven the original one12:23
RST38hmysc: Also spend another $80 for an Apple BT keyboard12:23
myscRST, was gonna go iGo...12:23
RST38hShiny, made of aluminIum12:23
AStormmysc: yes, that's great too12:23
RST38hApple is much cuter12:23
AStormand not as foldable12:23
RST38hDoes not matter, it's flat12:23
mysci like how small the igo gets12:24
AStormdoes, it's not pocketable12:24
RST38hAlso, you can cut OR hit people with it12:24
myscalmost as small as the n80012:24
AStormI don't have the problem... N810 ;P12:24
RST38hthe probability of you carrying a keyboard AND an N800 everywhere is slim12:24
myscastorm, i ditched mine12:24
RST38hSo, it does not necessarily have to be pocketable12:24
AStormmysc: why?12:24
myscwell, it was defective so i had an out...but while testing it i realized the kb was not worth the doubling in price12:25
AStormit isn't12:25
AStormthe screen is12:25
myscscreen on the 800 is perfectly good.12:26
AStormnot in sunlight12:26
mysci melt in sunlight :)12:26
* AStorm urges everyone to whip out holy water12:26
myscmebbe when the n810 is $200 i'll pick one up12:26
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AStormit's 350 euro here or so12:27
myscwhat's that like $400?12:27
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myscin usa right now it ranges from about $395 - $45012:28
KotCzarny1eur ~ 1.5usd12:28
KotCzarnyor even 2usd12:28
myscastorm, i agree, it's nice. but 800 is the right one for me.12:29
AStormit's not for me, too large and not sleek enough12:29
AStormstill, I need a kernel driver/keymap for the console and hw keyboard12:29
AStormbasic qwerty works, but not Fn key :>12:29
myscyou're not in os2008?12:30
AStormI am in and not. :-)12:30
myscso you compiled your own kernel?12:30
RST38hAStorm: Debian? ;)12:30
AStormRST38h: no12:30
AStormwant to get Gentoo onto it12:30
KotCzarnyastorm: how is 2.6.25 ?12:30
AStormKotCzarny: well, ask me tomorrow12:30
AStormmaybe today evening12:30
AStormstill, I'd like a proper Linux keymap for the keyboard12:31
mysci don't think i'd wanna compile a new kernel for os08, i'd go with a debian install12:31
AStormmysc: good choice12:31
myscanyone know if people are actively porting slackware to armel?12:31
AStormI'd actually take 2.6.22 + new CPU scheduler12:31
AStormmysc: they aren't12:31
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hrwAStorm: cfs? it has backort to 2.6.21 iirc12:32
myscthat's too bad. that would be an awesome little machine...a slack n80012:32
AStormhrw: gimme12:32
AStormesp. the newest version12:32
AStormlast backport I know is ancient12:32
AStorm(and has bugs)12:32
KotCzarnybugs aren't fun12:32
AStormnot as bad as the O(1) sched bugs ;P12:32
AStormI could actually ask Ingo for a backport and would probably get it...12:33
AStormbut for that, I need to remember my pass to that other shell :P12:33
AStormalternatively, I could cherry-pick out of git tree... work-intensive12:34
myscwhat's the best way to root my tablet?12:34
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AStormsched-cfs-v2.6.21.7-v24.1.patch ...12:34
AStormthat's fairly recent12:35
AStormit's from 2.6.24-rc512:35
AStormI could pick all patches since then12:35
KotCzarnycould be incompatible12:35
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.12:35
AStormKotCzarny: we can patch 2.6.21-omap to ;p12:36
infoboteasyroot is probably an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com12:36
infobotfrom memory, becomeroot is on Maemo to get root run "sudo gainroot" or dig in wiki for proper howto12:36
infobotmethinks ssh is and or see ssh-keygen, or see ssh-agent, or a way of telling someone to be quiet12:36
KotCzarnystupid bot12:36
AStormKotCzarny: it's not stupid, it's waaay too smart12:36
AStorminfobot: are you stupid or something?12:37
AStormyou see? ;P12:37
mysci have ssh client/server on there already. gonna go to nitapps now. i guess gainroot get's patched to not check for RD?12:37
infobotit has been said that stupid is
infoboti guess smart is the opposite of stupid, or the opposite of straightforward and polite, or what I definitely am, or "Self-Monitoring, Analysis, and Reporting Technology" used by some hard drive manufacturers to detect imminent drive failure12:37
* infobot beats grape into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy12:37
AStorminfobot: you're mad12:37
infobotmethinks mad is Rob Leslie's MPEG Audio Decoder, GPL, at
infobotSorry, astorm, you have failed.12:38
AStorminfobot: yes, you suck!12:38
AStormok, enough torturing for a while12:39
myscwow, the guy has ported some nice tools (nitapps)12:39
myscthanks for the url12:39
AStormKotCzarny: could I get btrfs-progs from you?12:39
KotCzarnyastorm: mad deps12:39
AStormlatest git, which doesn't hang?12:39
AStormnot mad12:39
AStormjust e2fsprogs/libss12:39
KotCzarnyand segfaults qemu/gcc12:39
KotCzarnyi don't remember the fix someone suggested12:40
AStormthat was unexpected12:40
AStormah, the memset instead of pointer12:40
AStorm*foo = NULL -> memset(foo, 0, sizeof footype)12:40
myschow do you install os2008 to a qemu image file?12:41
AStormmysc: you don't, there's a ready-made image :>12:41
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myscsweet, who made it?12:41
AStormoh, have to fly12:41
myscah i see, part of the sdk. makes sense.12:43
myscokay, cheers all.12:44
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KotCzarny./arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -luuid12:48
KotCzarnybut i have in /lib12:48
AStormldconfig, run it12:48
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hrwand you do not have which ld search for12:49
KotCzarnyldconfig ran12:49
KotCzarnybut didn't created required symlink12:49
KotCzarnyand /lib is in /etc/
AStorm~fail KotCzarny12:50
infobotKotCzarny: FAIL!12:50
KotCzarnyand i have write rights to /etc12:50
KotCzarnynot me but ldconfig12:50
KotCzarnyin sbox12:50
KotCzarnyget from usual location12:52
hrwKotCzarny: each time when I see 'sbox' and 'problem' I switch to other channel12:52
KotCzarnyhrw: well, at least this one was trivial to fix12:52
KotCzarnyand i really like sb1 because it keeps host os from breakage12:53
hrwI prefer normal cross compilation12:54
KotCzarnyas i said, i feel safer with sb112:54
hrweach of use prefer other perversions12:55
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* RST38h feels screwed with sb113:03
RST38hsb2 is more sane13:03
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KotCzarnywell, sb1 works for me, and that's all that matters13:04
RST38hDo you also use the autoconf/automake stuff?13:05
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jdiazI flashed yesterday an initfs image which GeneralAntilles prepared for me13:46
jdiazNow, I can see in Control Panel->About product, that the version of the operating system is no longer available13:46
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jdiazis this important?13:46
jdiazis it due to the initfs flash?13:46
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jdiazmay be important? :-)13:49
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KotCzarnyyou can always flash original initfs13:50
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jdiazwell, I suppose I should flash original initfs from nokia, and then use fanoush initfs utilities in order to create my own booting menu13:51
jdiazbtw, should I use the same version of initfs than the version of OS2008?13:52
jdiazI mean, in the nokia servers, only the latest version is available (51.3)13:52
GeneralAntillesjdiaz, you can just flash fanoush's over the one I gave you13:52
jdiazin my tablet I have 51.213:52
GeneralAntillesand, no, it doesn't mean anything.13:52
GeneralAntillesMy tablet has variously had a version and no version many times over the past year with seemingly no relation to anything.13:53
KotCzarnyjdiaz: changelog should answer your question, but i believe initfs is identical in both versions13:53
jdiazGA, if I can directly flash the fanoush version, why was your image required?13:53
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GeneralAntillesBecause you didn't have root access. :P13:54
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jdiazbut I thought that fanoush's version required root access only when flashing from the tablet13:54
jdiazyesterday I flashed from the PC13:54
GeneralAntillesYou have to generate the initfs13:55
GeneralAntillesWith his flasher tool13:55
GeneralAntillesWhich runs on the tablet13:55
GeneralAntillesSo I generated one on mine and tossed it over to you.13:55
jdiazand if I do that today, wouldn't be your initfs what I would generate?13:55
GeneralAntillesOnce you have the image, you can flash from either the PC or the tablet.13:55
GeneralAntillesJust set up the bootmenu.conf how you want it and generate a new one13:55
jdiazI'm a bit lost. I thought that my original initfs was lost forever13:56
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trickie_jdiaz: can flash it back from the nokia FIASCO image13:56
trickie_jdiaz: cause i assume it was the stock standard one13:56
jdiazGA, wait... initfs not only contains the bootmenu, it also contains a lot of binaries13:56
GeneralAntillesYeah, that would be the explanation13:57
trickie_jdiaz: if you have the nokia image you can use the flasher to only flash the initfs from nokia13:57
jdiazI assume that my current initfs is based on the binaries you had in your initfs13:57
trickie_jdiaz: correct13:57
jdiazand in general it is a bit dangerous to flash in one tablet the initfs generated in another tablet13:58
jdiazbecause the versions could not match13:58
trickie_jdiaz: and if you want the standard one released by nokia you can get the nokia image and only flash the initfs back13:58
KotCzarnynot really13:58
KotCzarnybecause you can always flash from pc13:58
jdiaztrickie, I know, thanks13:58
KotCzarnyeven if you write mp3 over initfs13:58
jdiazI'm only trying to understand13:58
GeneralAntillesYou mean rootfs and initfs versions?13:59
jdiazKotCzarny, yes, I understand. You are refering again to original nokia images13:59
KotCzarnyjdiaz: i refer to anything you would like to write to initfs partition13:59
trickie_jdiaz: id get the initfs-making script and check it out, might make it clearer13:59
jdiaztrickie_, fanoush's one?14:00
trickie_but yes what you said was correct, your initfs is made from the binaries etc that are on GA's inifs at the time he made it14:00
trickie_jdiaz: yep14:00
jdiazI think I understand14:00
jdiazso it would be wise to reflash the nokia original initfs14:01
jdiazand then use fanoush's scripts to build my own initfs14:01
KotCzarnyeven as an excercise14:01
trickie_jdiaz: yep14:01
jdiazwell, I'll do so as soon as I have again the usb cable which I forgot in my car :-)14:02
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jdiazthere is any document explaining the booting process in the tablet?14:07
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KotCzarnynolo -> kernel -> initfs -> rootfs14:08
jdiazI'm reading now about the linux booting process14:09
jdiazis initfs equivalent to initrd?14:09
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jdiaznolo is kind of grub?14:10
jdiazpieces are fitting14:11
jdiazcan be nolo be flashed independently?14:12
KotCzarnybut no one have done it, yet14:12
KotCzarnyyou would need to be sure it would work14:13
KotCzarnyon the first try14:13
jdiazi guess that it is the xloader.bin in the nokia's images14:13
KotCzarnyor have other mean of flashing it later14:13
jdiazaha.. I think I can see why14:14
KotCzarnybecause if you break nolo, usb flashing won't work anymore14:14
KotCzarnybooting too obviously14:14
jdiaznolo is on charge of executing the code which flashes on the tablet14:14
jaskanolo is appropriately named14:14
jaskanolo = finnish for embarassing14:14
KotCzarnyjaska: does lilo have any meaning in finnish?14:15
KotCzarnyor grub?14:15
jdiazalso fiasco is properly named? :-)14:15
jaskayeah :)14:15
KotCzarnyfiasco isn't a nokia product14:15
KotCzarnywell, arm7 port is :)14:15
jdiazwhat is fiasco? the flasher?14:16
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KotCzarnyformat/os name14:17
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SaviqKotCzarny: lilo is Linux Loader14:17
KotCzarnysaviq: i know14:17
jdiazalso a Disney's character :-)14:17
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hrwKotCzarny: no one??14:18
KotCzarnyhrw: at least no reports of such :)14:18
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hrwKotCzarny: I flashed nolo and xloader when 51.3 was released14:19
jdiazso fiasco is a particular implementation of the linux kernel?14:19
hrwsudo  flasher --flash --reboot \14:19
hrw--xloader xloader.bin-RX-44:0801,0802,0803,0804,0805,0806,0901,0902 \14:19
hrw--secondary secondary.bin-RX-44:0801,0802,0803,0804,0805,0806,0901,090214:19
hrw--2nd 2nd.bin-RX-44:0801,0802,0803,0804,0805,0806,0901,090214:19
hrwjdiaz: fiasco is container for kernel/bootloader/rootfs14:19
KotCzarnyhrw, well, i was referring to flashing nolo with something else14:19
hrwah - that one14:20
KotCzarnyhrw: according to the site i posted it's a whole rtos14:20
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hrwKotCzarny: I would not replace nolo without jtag and serial cables14:20
hrwKotCzarny: and for those you have to be in nokia hw team14:21
KotCzarnyhrw: that's why i have said no one reflashed it :)14:21
KotCzarny(with a replacement, that is)14:21
hrwKotCzarny: as there is no replacement...14:21
KotCzarnyhrw: who knows what's brewing in hackers hands :)14:22
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* jdiaz is digging in the nokia's initfs image, mounted on a linux box14:25
jdiazwhich format logo-nokia is?14:25
hrwI would like to be able to forget about initfs..14:25
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jdiazI guess that it is a kind of framebuffer dump14:27
KotCzarnyjdiaz: probably png14:27
jdiaznot png, at least not recognized as such by file14:27
KotCzarnywell, there are few images that are used during boot14:27
KotCzarnyone in nolo, few in initfs and few in rootfs14:27
KotCzarnyand you can replace those in intifs and rootfs14:28
jdiazthe nokia theme sound is in rootfs?14:28
KotCzarnyhrw: actually initfs is ok, because kernel people kicked out much stuff from kernel to userland14:28
hrwKotCzarny: s/initfs/initfs contents (binary daemons)14:29
KotCzarnyah, yes14:29
KotCzarnyclosedness is a fun stopper14:30
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KotCzarnydep: libmysqlclient15off14:37
KotCzarnywhat a nice dependency14:37
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jdiazI assume that the programs in initfs' /bin/ are closed14:42
jdiazi mean, source code not available14:42
KotCzarnyi think busybox is available14:42
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jdiazfor example, show_image14:42
KotCzarnyi bet it simply uses /dev/fb14:43
jdiazstrings reports /dev/fb on it14:43
SaviqIs the indt iphone-like virtual keyboard available somewhere?14:44
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jdiazinteresting... strings on show_image found this:14:45
jdiaz"Unable to allocate memory for image rle data"14:45
jdiazso the format is rle indeed14:45
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jdiaznot any format recognized by file14:46
jdiazi tried to remove some initial bytes (possible propietary header), but the result is still not recognized14:47
KotCzarnywhat are you trying to do?14:48
KotCzarnyinitial nokia logo is on the screen ~1s14:48
jaskabut its annoying :)14:48
KotCzarnyis it?14:49
jaskai always hated it on my phone (but that one was animated and took time)14:49
KotCzarnyare we talking about the same logo?14:49
jaskathe touching hands?14:49
KotCzarnyno hands on mine14:49
KotCzarnyas i said, just tweak initfs/rootfs14:49
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Saviqtrickie is that 'current'?15:00
SaviqAnd usable at all?15:00
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trickie_Saviq: not really, it needs to be hooked into the gui toolkits as an input method15:02
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Saviqyeah that's what I thought15:02
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trickie_Saviq: for mamona the indt guys are tryig to get matchbox-keyboard working15:03
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trickie_i beleive that has a input method integration with gtk already, and they are doing it also with the efl libs15:04
trickie_but don't quote me :)15:04
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hrwmatchbox-keyboard is nicely integrated with gtk15:28
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trickie_hrw: do you use that as input for poky?15:32
hrwtrickie_: yes15:33
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raviousAnyone know if its possible to or how to set mplayer as the default video player on os2006? I've tried searching google but not been able to find anything useful.15:34
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KotCzarnyThe acronym "LAMR" is occasionally used, to indicate Ruby on Rails in place of PHP.15:39
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inzanyone tried stateful firewall on maemo?15:49
KotCzarnynot yet, but kernel has an option for conntrack15:50
KotCzarnyso probably it's possible15:50
inzI've compiled it as module and loaded it, but it says all packets are in INVALID state15:51
inzwhich is not too nice15:51
KotCzarnymore modules needed?15:52
kulveI think the whole firewall stuff is cpu independant. Maybe you've just configure something wrong in the kernel..?15:52
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inzMaybe, can't just figure out what15:52
KotCzarnyenable anything you can as modules15:52
kulvehave you compared your .config with one from e.g. you home computer?15:52
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kulvetypoti typo15:53
inzsure have15:53
K-Fox <--- this site seem not normal15:54
KotCzarnyk-fox, yes, and?15:54
* Jaffa is glad to see that the "ITTSS" thread on ITT has an equally negative reaction as it did on maemo-dev. GeneralAntilles speaketh muchos sense.15:55
K-Foxapt-get install vncviewer <--- is it correct?15:56
GeneralAntillesI'm hoping I didn't kill Reggie entirely on the idea.15:56
GeneralAntillesWith syndication, it'd be workable.15:56
KotCzarnyhand picked software reviews?15:57
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GeneralAntillesHe is right about Canola, although it may have more to do with that crazy guy Handful than itT. :D15:57
GeneralAntillesBut it's true that Garage and Downloads suck for active discussion.15:58
KotCzarnypost 'talk page for garage enhancement' bug then?15:59
GeneralAntillesI just wish Reggie had considered discussing it with the community beforehand so we could've avoided all the negativity. <_<15:59
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K-Foxwhere is vnc client install"?16:01
KotCzarnyk-fox: try extras or garage16:01
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: it's worked for Canola because they don't have any of the resources a normal project has (e.g. mailing lists/forums)16:02
JaffaPartially because they can't/shouldn't be on garage as it's not OSS16:03
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KotCzarnyjaffa: but they failed a little  creating section 'canola'16:03
KotCzarny'indt' could be understandable16:04
KotCzarnybut canola? doh16:04
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simbossguys anyone here has ever played with threads in pymaemo?16:33
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eerohi. anyone familiar with pymaemo?16:42
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disqso, who tried upgrading kernel-diablo-flasher?16:43
KotCzarnyprobably qwerty1216:44
disqtoo much updates, i'm scared16:44
GeneralAntillesdisq, I dunno16:44
KotCzarnythen don't do it16:44
KotCzarnyand wait for official release16:44
GeneralAntillesI'm imagining Application manager might've invoked it16:44
GeneralAntillesbut my initfs is still fanoush's16:44
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GeneralAntillesI flashed the kernel last time around without issue.16:45
* Jaffa wonders: if N810W release pushed back a couple of months due to WiMAX rollout issues, will Diablo be post-poned too?16:46
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eeroIs it really so that in order to install Python, one must put the device into R&D mode and then use gainroot?16:46
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KotCzarnyeero: not really16:46
eeroit is said so here:
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Jaffaeero: no, you install an app which requires it and you get it for free (if said app has its dependencies configured correctly)16:47
KotCzarnyeero: i have never used r&d mode16:47
KotCzarnyand i have python on my n80016:47
KotCzarnythough i have redpill mode enabled :)16:48
eerojaffa: I tried to install about 10 different python .deb package from ..the all had python dependency defined but the python is not installed16:48
KotCzarnyeero: have you actually tried installing using app-man ?16:48
KotCzarnyor by downloading .deb ?16:48
simbosseero: you can use app-man16:49
eerothe application I need are not listed on app-man16:49
KotCzarnyeero: then install canola16:49
KotCzarnyit should suck python for you16:49
KotCzarny(then you can remove canola if you don't like it)16:49
eeronot all the python packages16:49
KotCzarnywhat's your problem then?16:50
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eeroI'm just wondering whether it is possible to create a .deb package that (when run from AI) installs automatically all python dependencies ..16:53
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KotCzarnythat's called meta-package16:53
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KotCzarnyfor example ssh is such package16:53
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KotCzarny(it will install ssh-server and ssh-client)16:54
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KotCzarny# WILL FIND YOU.  Use dh_install, this is just because dh_install16:55
KotCzarny# can't rename files16:55
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KotCzarnysome debian/rules comments are funny :)16:55
eerocan you point any python application (.dep) from that installs python dependencies... I have found none..16:56
KotCzarnyeero: canola16:56
eeroi mean .deb16:56
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eerook, i will try16:57
eerojust a second16:57
KotCzarnyor anything with py in the name16:57
GeneralAntillesSuch a ridiculous installation method16:57
GeneralAntillesthey should be shot for that.16:57
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GeneralAntillesR&D mode? :shudder:16:58
JaffaWell, most of the time people shouldn't be installing Python directly.16:58
KotCzarnyunless they want to learn/create something in it?16:58
simbossguys quick question on the python topic16:59
simbossI have a multithreaded app written python for linux16:59
JaffaKotCzarny: indeed, but then people should be able to figure out how to get root16:59
hrweero: ow many packages from garage would pass lintian check?16:59
simbosswhich I am trying to port over using pymaemo, but it chokes as soon as I try to start a thread16:59
simbossdoes pymamemo support multithreading?17:00
* KotCzarny uses ssh root@017:00
Jaffasimboss: a question for the pymaemo mailing list, I'd guess. I'd be surprised if it doesn't.17:00
GeneralAntillesReggie's got his pity party hat on now. . . . <_<17:00
simbossjaffa: me too :-)17:00
JaffaGeneralAntilles: awww, diddums17:01
KotCzarnyga: at least he will have time to do something else :)17:01
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Juhazsimboss, is it a pygtk app or are you porting it from another toolkit?17:03
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* Cptnodegard is reading for exams on his n80017:05
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eerook.. I tried to install  Application Manager says that it cannot be installed because python2.5 is missing17:13
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pancake  0.9.6 released :) with more maemo pleasure17:14
eerosame with
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KotCzarnyok, enable extras?17:15
eeroit is enabled.. the problem is that .deb files don't automatically install python ..the only possibility is to install python manually and it reaures r&d mode ..17:16
KotCzarnyare you sure extras is enabled?17:17
eeroyes, im sure17:17
KotCzarnyif you go to repos list is extras icon grayed out?17:17
GeneralAntillesJust install Canola from Extras.17:17
GeneralAntillesFrom within Application manager.17:17
eeroextras icon is not grayed out17:18
GeneralAntillesEdit it, is the Disabled box checked?17:18
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eerogeneral: canola is not problem...I can isntall it because it is listed on application manager17:18
GeneralAntillesCanola depends on Python.17:18
KotCzarnyeero, then do it, and you will have python installed17:18
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eeroif I install canola it installs some python packages but not all17:19
KotCzarnyeero: enable redpill mode and install missing packages via app-man17:20
KotCzarny(and you don't need root for that)17:20
RST38hpancake: will it do arm disassembly too?17:20
eerokotcrazny: that's not the problem.. the problem is that for ordinary user (i'm not:) it is too difficult to install python applications which are not listed on application manager :)17:21
pancakeRST38h: supports arm, mips, java, x86(16,32,64), csr, sparc17:21
pancakeand debugging too17:21
pancakethe disasembly of the shots is arm17:21
KotCzarnyeero: well, if you get your package on garage then it will be in app-man :)17:22
RST38hpancake: yummy17:22
pancakealso for graphs and code analysis17:22
KotCzarnypancake: disassemler for arm packages?17:22
eerokotcrazny: that's not true.. for example mclock in not listed on application dozens of other applications17:22
pancakei plan to add a pseudo virtual machine for the next version17:23
pancaketo enhace the code analysis17:23
pancakeKotCzarny: ?17:23
KotCzarnyeero, ahm, you are right17:23
pancakeKotCzarny: radare is an advanced command line hexadecimal editor17:23
KotCzarnypancake, ahm, /me uses mcedit17:23
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pancakeKotCzarny: don't compare :)17:24
Jaffapancake: can you edit the assembly? I had some fun a couple of months back using IDA Pro demo version on XP to look at the structure of an ARM ELF binary, identifying the instruction I wanted to change, then opening the same binary up in StrongEd in RISC OS on RPCemu on an Ubuntu box to make the change :-)17:24
pancakeJaffa: yes17:24
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Jaffapancake: cool, I'll try that next time then :-)17:24
pancakesweet :)17:24
KotCzarnyeero: i guess it's a problem that pymaemo guys have to fix17:25
pancakejoin the mailing list/forums if you're interested on :)17:25
eeroAs a developer I'm concerned that only the way to make a python application automatically installable is to get it into (extras) repository and it is quite difficult process17:25
Juhazso anyone happen to remember what is the rationale for app-man not autoresolving deps for command line arguments? that's the crux of the problem, after all.17:26
Jaffaeero: it's not that difficult, really.17:26
GeneralAntillesIt's not all that difficult, eero.17:26
eerothey have set all kind of quality requirements..17:27
JaffaOh, so you want to release crashy crashy shonkware?17:27
GeneralAntillesThat's what extras-devel is for.17:27
eerohow about alpha/beta quality level software that is under development?17:27
JaffaAnd part of the problem is that the quality requirements aren't high enough ;-)... but as GeneralAntilles says, that's what extras-devel is for.17:27
KotCzarnyif someone installs alpha/beta he/she should be knowledgeable then17:28
eeronot necessarily..17:28
KotCzarnyor you end up with bunch of newbies cursing your beta app17:28
KotCzarnyfor no reason17:28
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qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Was there SSU Diablo update today?17:28
RST38heero: as a developer you should avoid writing applications in python17:28
GeneralAntillesThis morning.17:29
RST38hway, WAY too fragile17:29
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RST38hSomebody upgrades Python - and half the apps stop working17:29
eerostill I don't understand the requirement of R&D mode for manual installation17:31
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KotCzarnyr&d is needed for root access17:32
WorkingOnWiseis anyone having troubles with Skype? Major choppyness on both ends, but never at the same time.17:33
eeroWhy python is then not listed on AI? ..17:33
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Jaffaeero: cos most end-users don't need to install it themselves.17:35
eeroyou think that most end users want only install applications which are listed on application manager? Not for example the mclock?17:36
Jaffaeero: that's an issue with mclock, not python17:36
JaffaMoan at the mclock developers for not putting the app in extras(-devel)17:37
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* qwerty12 wishes application manager resolved depends for local debs files too like gdebi, not just ones installed from a repo.17:38
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Jaffaqwerty12: fix the source? - submit a patch ;-)17:40
qwerty12Jaffa, I'm gonna try on the diablo version later :)17:40
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qwerty12Because then, when I install from a deb, I have to resort the dpkg -i and apt-get -f install anyway :/17:41
KotCzarnythen make script for it?17:42
qwerty12I'd rather just work on application manager :/17:42
qwerty12Bollox, updating diablo has made my version information blank :p17:42
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eerook.. In order to put an python application into extras repository I need an upload account, right?17:44
JaffaCorrect. Which is a garage account, basically.17:44
X-Fade_eero: Yep ;)17:44
JaffaYou do not need a garage project, though.17:44
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JaffaOh, and X-Fade's here now to help you :-)17:45
eerox-fade: thanks17:46
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X-Fade_eero: Then you even don't need to type the email ;)17:46
eerogreat, I don't like typing emails ;)17:46
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* qwerty12 wants to update bootmenu with Kot's colour mod but I don't have the willpower to strip out the initfs again and make a new jffs2 image :(17:48
* GeneralAntilles is two thanks away from 666.17:48
* GeneralAntilles hopes he doesn't miss it.17:48
qwerty12hehe, I made17:48
ccookeqwerty12: generally, if you do something twice it's better to script it the third time.17:48
qwerty12my tablet version 666 for a while.17:48
KotCzarnyqwerty: make a script to do it then :)17:48
qwerty12ccooke, If I could, I would!17:48
X-Fade_Ok, the autobuilder has improved a lot. It will now mail the uploader with status and links to error logs etc..17:49
qwerty12(My scripting skills are bad)17:49
ccookeqwerty12: hmm. where can I find the initrd? I can probably knock up a script in a few minutes.17:49
KotCzarnyscript is just a commands you type anyway in a text file17:49
ccooke(my n810 is not currently able to copy files to the system I'm using now)17:50
ccookeKotCzarny: initially. If you do it properly, you end up with something that makes your life even easier than that17:50
ccooke(because a script can make decisions and assumptions for you)17:50
qwerty12ccooke, This was a diablo one I extracted. It took me a while and 2gb ram to extract it. Plus KotCzarny's linuxrc will be based off the chinook one so I have to compare the files.17:52
ccookeqwerty12: no problem.17:52
ccookeqwerty12: that can be scripted, too :-)17:52
qwerty12Thanks though :)17:52
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ccookewhen you say it took you 2G of ram to extract... that sounds like it should be wrong.17:53
ccookeafter all, there's only a 256M root filesystem and 128M of RAM on the devices17:54
KotCzarnyqwerty, essentially just look at the lines related to text2screen17:54
qwerty12ccooke, I'm serious :). mtd2ram method uses a lot of memory to mount an jffs2 image.17:54
qwerty12KotCzarny, Will do, I've done this before :)17:54
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qwerty12Except in b&w17:54
ccookeqwerty12: oh... jffs image, right.17:54
ccookeqwerty12: that explains things :-)17:55
qwerty12Good thing is that I have a tarball of the diablo initfs so I don't have to mount things anymore :)17:55
n800ndoes booting off a card corrupt it if it's shut down foced?17:55
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KotCzarnyn800n: depends, but that's a good reason to have ext3 on it17:56
ccooken800n: not automatically, but it's very likely17:56
ccooken800n: ext3 will help with that.17:56
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n800nis there an app that would shut down the tablet if battery goes under a certain %?17:57
WorkingOnWisei have ext3 and have had 15 or so dirty shutdowns - dead bat, lockups and pulled the battery -  and never a problem17:57
KotCzarnyi think tablet does it already17:57
X-Fade_The tablet does a proper shutdown when battery gets low.17:58
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, One more thanks to reach devil point :p17:58
Jaffan800n: yes, the built-in battery management software does exactly that.17:58
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, I'll do it for you :p17:58
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I reckon another bitch-slapping on the ITTSS thread could get it for you (from me)17:58
n800nwell something may have gone wrong17:58
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Welcome to 66617:58
KotCzarnyx-fade: but it's not true if battery got low via low usage, then if cpu went to 100%17:58
X-Fade_KotCzarny: Huh?17:59
GeneralAntillesMuhahaha! >:]17:59
* GeneralAntilles gets screenshots17:59
KotCzarnyx-fade: li-* battery fun17:59
X-Fade_KotCzarny: That doesn't make sense ;)18:00
KotCzarnyx-fade: if you discharge slowly, tablet doesn't have a chance to poweroff properly18:00
KotCzarnyx-fade: well, if you drain battery slowly18:00
X-Fade_KotCzarny: Sure, it does. It will always leave more than 5% in..18:00
KotCzarnyvoltage keeps steady18:00
KotCzarnyif you start draining big, voltage drops quite big too18:01
X-Fade_Yeah, ok. You mean the delta isn't that large then..18:01
n800nwell i'm sure mine did18:01
KotCzarnyx-fade: battery monitor runs all the time, it should be aware of this18:01
KotCzarnyi guess that qualifies as a bug18:01
n800ni'm sure mine shut down forced, i had open files idling in fb reader an 2 dirs were corrupted18:02
KotCzarnyn800n: go ext318:02
qwerty12I want that stupid battery thing to be improved. On my Pocket PC, I would get a 10 second countdown that it was about to go off. On my Nokia, I get 3 warnings, fair enough, but I don't like it going off without a proper warning i.e countdown and saying recharge battery.18:02
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KotCzarnyqwerty: i can write an app for that18:02
KotCzarnyapparently i have found good params for my kcbatt18:03
qwerty12KotCzarny, If you would, I would love you forever :)18:03
n800noh it's not ext318:03
n800nah shit.18:03
KotCzarnyqwerty: well, the problem is that it will have to run all the time18:03
KotCzarnybecause it's all about deltas :)18:03
WorkingOnWiseis there a way to run an app at a higher priority?18:03
qwerty12KotCzarny, I don't mind, rather that then the tablet shutting off :)18:03
qwerty12WorkingOnWise, renice18:04
WorkingOnWisecool. ty qwerty1218:04
KotCzarnyqwerty: you do. if app runs all the time == battery drain18:04
qwerty12I'm past caring, honestly.18:04
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qwerty12I'd rather that then losing a post I'm about to post :)18:05
KotCzarnythen it's a simple sh script :)18:05
qwerty12Cool :)18:05
WorkingOnWisedoes anyone think renicing Skype to a higher priority will fix my chop and chatter troubles? Right now its useless as a voip device18:05
n800nit was fb reader, didn't think it'd be such a drain18:05
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n800nbut i'm in the freakin jungle18:05
KotCzarnyWorkingOnWise: renice 0 `pidof Xomap`18:06
WorkingOnWiseKotCzarny: what is Xomap?18:06
KotCzarnyn800n: screen rendering is quite costly + backlight18:06
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qwerty12WorkingOnWise, X Server18:06
n800nbacklight is almost the worst18:07
n800ni don't think the soft shut down works if apps are open for me18:07
WorkingOnWiseok. qwerty12.  I' not questioning, just trying to understand. Wouldnt a reboot do the same thing?18:07
qwerty12A reboot wouldn't make the priority higher, if I understood question right :)18:08
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WorkingOnWiseqwerty12: got it. I sure wish man worked on the IT. 0 is the highest prioprity, and normally Xomap starts at a lower priority, right?18:11
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qwerty12WorkingOnWise, I would guess that it starts at lower priority but to be honest, I don't really understand renice myself :)18:11
qwerty12There is a long way to make man work but it would mean a hell of a lot of time and me explaining something I've never tried.18:12
trickie_google: man renice18:13
trickie_alot easier18:13
johnxhighest priority = most CPU time given = -2018:13
WorkingOnWisewell. that changed skypes performance from totally useless to mildly anoying....18:13
johnxlowest priority = only run at idle = +2018:13
KotCzarnythe problem is that Xomap runs at -118:14
KotCzarnyand sound runs at 018:14
KotCzarnyso screen draws can introduce sound glitches18:14
KotCzarnyand using skype nobody cares about drawing speed18:14
johnxWorkingOnWise, as root bump skype to -5 and see if that helps18:15
WorkingOnWiseKotCzarny: johnx is it possible that that could help a2dp also?18:15
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johnxWorkingOnWise, it helps quite a bit18:15
johnxat the cost of every other process18:15
johnxthough in my case I left xomap at its default priority and bumped mplayer to -118:16
johnxor was it -5?18:16
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KotCzarnyjohnx, but mplayer is restarted often18:16
KotCzarnyso you need to bump it every time18:17
johnxof course18:17
KotCzarnywhile renicing Xomap is once per boot18:17
johnxand to get -5 priority you need to be root18:17
johnxbut renicing Xomap might have negative effects on games or video. I don't really know...18:17
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WorkingOnWisesounds like we need an app to renice video vs sound on the fly maybe?18:18
KotCzarnyjohnx: seriously, games? video? :)18:18
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johnxKotCzarny, :P18:19
johnxWorkingOnWise, actually a little control panel that had that and a way to lock the CPU at 400MHz might be nice18:19
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KotCzarnyjohnx: op patch!18:20
johnxop patch?18:20
KotCzarnyso you can set op modes18:20
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KotCzarnyand you can even set desired op mode for dsp usage18:20
johnxwhat are op modes? is that different than the cpufreq governor?18:20
KotCzarnynot true18:20
johnxgot a link?18:21
* qwerty12 turns off prick mode18:21
johnxqwerty12, kthx18:21
johnxqwerty12, I tried that. op-mode linux gets me a whole bunch of nothing18:22
qwerty12I see what you mean :/18:22
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johnxheh...I found the actual source18:23
johnxbut not an explanation :/18:23
KotCzarnyit allows op modes to be set via /sys18:23
KotCzarnyfanoush already included it in his kernel18:24
qwerty12KotCzarny, know who made that patch?18:24
WorkingOnWiserenicing skype to -5 made is s l o w!  tried 5 too. slow still.... when it finally did call, it was super choppy. wierd18:24
KotCzarnyqwerty: i think someone from this chan, maybe jott..18:24
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qwerty12KotCzarny, bootmenu.conf is on the root of the initfs partition right?18:25
johnxWorkingOnWise, try running top via ssh while using skype18:26
johnxsee what wants the most CPU time18:26
KotCzarnyqwerty: yes, i hacked initfs-flash script to copy my version over original18:26
qwerty12KotCzarny, Thanks18:26
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KotCzarnyjohnx: i use it to replace 330/220 mode with 400/13318:28
WorkingOnWisejohnx: ok. after I test a theory. I am booting into the flash OS2008, which has very very little installed on it I'm gonna try Skype from there ans see if maybe it'm my install on the SD car thats fubared somehow.18:28
qwerty12man, fanoush is just too good. I was surprised to learn that the mmc booting code was actually made by Nokia but fanoush improved it lots and actually made it into a menu :)18:28
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KotCzarnyqwerty: i think menu was there already18:28
KotCzarnybut accessible with a key hold18:28
qwerty12Yes, but it's a weird sort of menu, I've managed it run it via chroot :)18:29
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qwerty12qwerty12 lied about not having to mount initfs, I'm gonna have to mount the chinook one.18:29
GeneralAntillesPhoney! qwerty12's uh PHONEY!18:30
* qwerty12 is so vain, rd mode says my initfs version is 2008-17-qwerty12-diablo/bootmenu-custom18:30
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qwerty12Kill me now.18:30
GeneralAntillesYou'll go straight to hell. :P18:30
KotCzarnyqwerty: you will kill yourself18:31
johnxqwerty12, done. the Nokian ninjas will arrive shortly :P18:31
KotCzarnywhen some app refuse to install18:31
kpanicwhat version scratchbox is suggested for maemo 4.0?18:31
kpanicversion of scratchbox18:31
qwerty12Cool, bye bye muhahahaha18:31
johnxkpanic, the latest 1.x release available18:31
qwerty12with the 4.0.1 sdk18:31
kpanicqwerty12, yeah18:32
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WorkingOnWiseis diablo released yet?18:32
GeneralAntillesNo, WorkingOnWise.18:32
WorkingOnWiseneed blood18:32
kpanicjohnx, thanks18:32
qwerty12I held a gun to Nokia's head so some of us would get the beta.18:32
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WorkingOnWiselol @ qwerty12 I see they do in fact listen to reason.18:33
* GeneralAntilles pictures qwerty12 standing next to a big office building in Helsinki with his stupid Glock.18:33
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, How do you browse with that font :p18:33
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Yes but minus stupid :p18:33
GeneralAntillesFrom the screenshot?18:33
GeneralAntillesIt's the jpeg compression.18:33
qwerty12Ah, skeen18:34
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GeneralAntillesI shoulda taken the screenshot in tiff, but I'm lazy. :P18:34
qwerty12Too late now :p18:34
jdiazI think I deciphered the image format of logo-nokia18:35
qwerty12pancake already did it18:35
jdiazoh yes?18:35
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qwerty12But it makes no difference.18:35
qwerty12logo is in NOLO18:35
jdiazI searched at ITT with no result18:35
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qwerty12Check the 0xFFFF sources for logotool18:35
qwerty12You can make and convert logo-nokia with it18:35
Jaffajdiaz: ITT is not the be-all and end-all of maemo knowledge :-)18:36
qwerty12But I made a new logo and the one from NOLO is still shown.18:36
jdiazbut at least is less volatile that #maemo :-)18:36
qwerty12pancake, nice job with 0xffff btw, saved my life when I was messing with initfs.18:36
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pancakethanks :)18:36
pancakei have to fix a bug in the unpacker18:36
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pancakebut is quite stable for the rest :)18:36
jdiazanyway, it was funny to reverse-engineer the format18:37
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pancakejdiaz: it is :)18:37
jdiazI was asking here, two hours ago18:37
pancakequite easy algorithm18:37
jdiazno one seemed to know the format, nor that it was deciphered18:37
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jdiazyes, quite easy18:37
jdiazqwerty12, you said that logo is in nolo18:38
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qwerty12jdiaz, it is, i've even asked fanoush18:38
qwerty12changing logo-nokia doesn't do anything18:38
jdiazbut there is a logo-nokia in initfs18:38
qwerty12Infact, I even delete it now.18:38
qwerty12and my Nokia logo is still there.18:38
jdiazif I alter that logo, there would be no difference during boot?18:38
qwerty12well, their nokia logo.18:38
KotCzarnyit's in nolo18:38
qwerty12I've already been there.18:38
jdiazbut there is a call to show_image at linuxrc18:39
KotCzarnyyou can comment that line simply18:39
KotCzarnybut there is still one in nolo18:39
qwerty12Maybe my image was too big then, I seem to remember the program segfaulting with my new image...18:39
KotCzarnywhich shows just after boot18:39
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qwerty12I'd rather see a ARM ASM expert dissassemble NOLO :)18:40
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jdiazok, KotCzarny, I understand that in nolo there is a logo, and then there is another identical logo shown from linuxrc18:40
KotCzarnyand another in rootfs18:40
jdiazI can alter the second one, couldn't?18:40
jdiazthe third is the one with the hands, I suppose18:40
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qwerty12nah, there is another nokia logo in rootfs18:41
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jdiazah, of course, because the blue progress bar at the bottom is displayed from rootfs18:42
jdiazthe hands logo is probably displayed during X11 start18:42
KotCzarnyjdiaz: you can alter every logo except one in nolo18:42
KotCzarny(blue 'NOKIA')18:42
qwerty12after actually18:42
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qwerty12I'm pretty sure that the NOLO logo is in secondary.bin due to the file size :/18:44
KotCzarnyjdiaz: just hunt every possible instance of show_image in /etc/rc2.d/18:44
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johnxWoo! the new trend in China appears to have changed from cheap mp3 players to cheap embedded linux gadgets:
johnxI just wonder what an Xburst CPU is...18:46
johnxmaybe an xscale clone?18:46
qwerty12Who was it copied off?18:46
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johnxit looks quite a bit like an asus eee to me...18:47
johnxbut so do all small, white sub-notebooks18:47
* qwerty12 will always remember D&G: Dio And Gomez18:48
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jdiazquerty, yes... I've found the data of the logo inside secondary.bin. It begins at offset 0x1314c18:48
johnxqwerty12, ahaha...but not nearly as fun as some random linux gadget18:48
qwerty12Cool :)18:48
qwerty12hehe, true18:49
qwerty12jdiaz, I will love you forever if you make NOLO with black background18:49
jdiazshow_image accepts a parameter for specifying the color background18:50
jdiazbut I assume that nolo doesn't use show_image18:50
qwerty12I don't think NOLO would have dependency on initfs, because then it would make dead flashing fun...18:50
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* qwerty12 wonders if the colour is in hex18:51
qwerty12it's how I edited the walkman colour on my phone18:51
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m-chmm - bit of a newbish question - but, how do I make a SIP call using USER@DOMAIN.COM , with the Command Center software?18:56
qwerty12Does anyone know if you can make the button on the headset (wired headset, N800 original) pause a song?18:56
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disqqwerty12: kagu does it18:57
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jdiazeh, that reminds me that I always wondered what that button was for18:57
qwerty12disq, Thanks18:57
qwerty12jdiaz, for internet call afaik18:57
Veggenm-c: I know how I do it. I make a range in my asterisk for short-numbers and make asterisk do it ;)18:57
jdiazthe headset has a micro?18:57
qwerty12My bro's N73 has same behavior with headset but it answers GSM calls etc18:57
Veggenm-c: but that's not a newbish answer, I guess ;P18:57
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jdiazI noticed that, when I push the button, the stereo seems to make wider18:58
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m-chmm - setting up asterisk is a bit more than I want to do18:58
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m-cI think installing gizmo would be easier18:58
jdiazI even would say that with the button not pressed, the audio is mono18:58
m-cbut thank you for your thoughts, Veggen18:59
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VReHas anybody run to a case, where the application menu is totally empty? I was installing a lot of software listend in and in the end I noticed that the menu is totally empty..19:04
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jdiazI've a question about RD mode... I don't recall having set RD mode ever, but I can gainroot, is that possible?19:19
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qwerty12If you have installed becomeroot or easyroot19:19
JaffaYes, using either SSH server; becomeroot package or easyroot package.19:19
qwerty12cal-tool will tell you current status on rd-mode19:20
jdiazMy first idea about becoming root (even without having read about it), was to install a ssh server19:20
jdiazI did so the first day I received my n81019:20
jdiazthen, I was tired of ssh localhost to become root, and I searched other easier ways19:20
jdiazi discovered and installed easyroot, which is what I use now19:21
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jdiazso, some of these apps changed the tablet to rd mode, right?19:21
qwerty12Nah, they change the script not to run cal-tool to see if your tablet is in rd-mode ;)19:21
jdiazbetter this way, I guess19:22
jdiazless risk of side effects19:22
* qwerty12 would love to be able to modify config partition19:22
* qwerty12 also wonders if I will have enough space to flash this diablo inifs with bootmenu and fb_update19:24
* qwerty12 also realises I am annoying, sorry,19:24
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Navisshhh, eet's mah seckretz19:30
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qwerty12KotCzarny, Man, which did you mod? "Ur one:#  Copyright (C) 2006 Frantisek Dufka" latest:"#  Copyright (C) 2006,2007,2008 Frantisek Dufka" :p19:32
dnearyhi all19:33
KotCzarnyqwerty: hmm?19:34
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qwerty12KotCzarny, your seems to be from a old version. I'm looking at it now and the latest is quite different19:35
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qwerty12For one, it says 2008 :p19:35
KotCzarnyi haven't redownloaded initfs-flash for a long time19:36
KotCzarny(since march ;)19:36
qwerty12Hehe. I'm trying to figure out right changes now :)19:36
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dnearyHi Navi19:39
dnearyNavi: Did you find that stuff useful?19:39
dnearyI'm down to the Es19:39
NaviYeah, it helps19:39
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NaviThough, I've been a bit preoccupied19:40
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Khertan_on_n810Hi !20:04
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qwerty12Hi :)20:04
Khertan_on_n810what is the pdflush process ?20:04
GeneralAntillesFilesystem writes.20:04
qwerty12A toilet for PDF files?20:04
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johnxGeneralAntilles is correct, but I like qwerty12's answer better20:05
dnearyNavi: Hi!20:05
Navidneary, hi again :D20:05
GeneralAntillesUgh, I grab the bugs for him and he 104s20:05
GeneralAntillesPeer is such a jerk.20:06
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johnxmust have entered a tunnel20:06
johnxthat's when peer always sneaks up on his victims20:06
dnearyNavi: I made it to F20:06
NaviFriggin' ninja20:06
Navidneary, sweet20:06
dnearyWell, almost - I need to figure out what to do with ExtendedFileSystem first20:07
GeneralAntillesNavi's made it to nothing.20:07
qwerty12I'll be waiting behind Z with a Glock 4020:07
dnearyWant to do a bit of wiki sorting this evening?20:07
NaviI'll start working the opposite way as soon as GeneralAntilles stops bugging me20:07
dnearyGeneralAntilles: He's been a great help20:07
dnearyHe spent about 3 hours sorting wiki pages a couple of days ago20:07
* GeneralAntilles continues poking Navi with a sharpened stick.20:07
qwerty12Hip Hip Hooray, Navi!20:07
GeneralAntillesAll this time for the maemo wiki Navi and you still wont help me with wikipedia. :P20:08
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Navidneary's overexaggerating a bit, but thanks :D20:08
johnxdoes anyone know if there are any nicely packaged fuse .debs for os2008?20:08
GeneralAntillesAh, there you are!20:08
Navijohnx, yes20:08
dnearyNavi: 2 hours?20:08
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qwerty12johnx, solmumaha's is the best I've seen20:08
Khertan_on_n810hi again20:08
dnearySo - do you want to take on the Fs, Gs and Hs?20:08
Navidneary, I didn't help that much. The time's probably right, I wasn't keeping track20:08
Khertan_on_n810yeah xchat don t respond due to 98% cpu eating20:08
johnxthanks, qwerty12/Navi20:08
dnearyOr just Fs and Gs20:09
dnearyThere are lots of Hildon* and HOWTO*20:09
Navidneary, I'll work the opposite way after I microwave some food20:09
Khertan_on_n810is there a fix ?20:09
Navistart from Z upwards on the list20:09
GeneralAntillesI dunno, but there's lots of talking on bugzilla. :P20:09
dnearyNavi: It's very time consuming & tedious work - all help is appreciated20:09
Navis/upwards/and go upwards/20:09
infobotNavi meant: start from Z and go upwards on the list20:09
GeneralAntillesThe N810 is the perfect place to read through all those comments and find out for yourself. :D20:09
dnearyCool, thanks20:09
NaviI will, that is20:10
GeneralAntillesdneary, is the outdated stuff getting dumped somewhere?20:10
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Probably all shoved in a big long list behind a page called "Attic" or something20:11
dnearyHaven't decided yet20:11
dnearyIt's text, so there's no real cost in keeping it around, if it does no harm20:11
GeneralAntillesUpdating old stuff feels like something I'd like to invest time in.20:11
dnearyBut depending on where we put it, it might do harm (by cluttering things up)20:11
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Khertan_on_n810100% /m20:13
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Khertan_on_n810df : 100% /20:13
Khertan_on_n810that s the prob20:13
qwerty12KotCzarny, I fucked up.20:14
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Khertan_on_n810thx generalantilles !20:14
GeneralAntillesSure. ;)20:14
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Khertan_on_n810just need to find how 20Mb have been filled20:16
qwerty12I like using pipeline's searchmonkey with options to find files over the size of 50MB etc.20:17
Khertan_on_n810take the car20:19
Khertan_on_n810and thx for the help20:19
Khertan_on_n810no need to reflash ! ouf !20:19
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leginddoes anyone have a custom-made modules.dep for os2008?20:26
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qwerty12You can use depmod to make one. jott gave me a binary20:27
johnxdepmod -a20:27
legindqwerty12, you have the binary? where can i find it?20:27
qwerty12All thanks to jott20:27
legindgreat, much thanks20:28
qwerty12And KotCzarny who helped me out at the time too :)20:28
* legind will hopefully be converting his n800 into a cell phone using evdo :)20:28
legindand the usbserial module with custom options20:28
KotCzarnymy app-man gets 401 on diablo repo20:29
qwerty12You need latest apt built ;)20:29
qwerty12Otherwise app man will never get into the repo20:29
KotCzarnyhow do i get it without having access to repo?20:30
KotCzarnyunless i need to get it myself20:30
qwerty12Maba told me you can specify a password in sources.list too :)20:30
qwerty12KotCzarny, I assume you have password, or I can PM it you.20:30
KotCzarnyi would have never guessed it20:31
qwerty12Guess who was the first? ;)20:31
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KotCzarnyi have seen your sig20:32
qwerty12Hehe, bye.20:32
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legindis their an airprime module for the os2008 kernel? or a usbserial which accepts options?20:37
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johnxI really hate synaptic...20:58
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qwerty12_N800KotCzarny, Would I be right in assuming that I remove -T 0's from individual text2screenlines. Because the bootmenu is coloured but except for the boot options and "powering off", I can't see nothing else.20:58
Navijohnx, I do too20:58
johnxaptitude is so much more sane20:59
NaviI miss aptitude20:59
KotCzarnyi have removed -T 0 but i have added it in T2S alias20:59
KotCzarnyat the top20:59
johnxNavi, for the n800?20:59
* qwerty12_N800 hates Asian food and I am an Asian lol20:59
NaviBut mostly for the commandlineness20:59
KotCzarnyalso, because of that screen gets cleared properly20:59
johnxI like aptitude because it actually does what I tell it to20:59
KotCzarnyie. in my chosen colors20:59
NaviI keep messing up by typing "apt-get search" and "apt-cache install" :P20:59
johnxyeah, I do that too20:59
* KotCzarny compiles jffs2 module21:00
qwerty12_N800johnx, dselect is king :p (joke, don't touch myself)21:00
johnxNavi, also aptitude's conflict/broken resolution system is also about ten times sane21:01
johnxqwerty12_N800, O_o21:01
qwerty12_N800KotCzarny, Even ubuntu includes jffs2 module :p21:01
KotCzarnyi usually compile my own kernel21:01
KotCzarnyand never had any use for that module21:01
qwerty12_N800johnx, I meant don't *touch* it myself lol21:02
qwerty12_N800KotCzarny, hindsight is nice ;)21:02
johnxheh...I know, but I had to :P21:02
johnxI resisted switching from dselect for so long...but the brokenness of it's recommended handling finally changed my mind21:02
Navistupid johnx21:03
qwerty12_N800With newer apt, compiling aptitude for diablo is possible in theory21:03
johnxhey :P I changed my ways21:03
* Navi np: Video Bargainville [Moxy Fruvous]21:04
johnxqwerty12_N800, yup. I'll try it when diablo is closer to launch and the ship a diablo sdk21:04
johnxNavi, :D21:04
qwerty12_N800johnx, I'm gonna try tommorow, may as well as I need to recompile diablo app manager anyway :/21:05
johnxalright, keep us posted then21:05
NaviIs the app manager separate from APT?21:06
johnxNavi, eh?21:06
Navijohnx, meaning, not an APT frontend21:06
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johnxit's an apt frontend21:06
johnxprobably uses libapt21:06
qwerty12_N800ah no, it isn't separate then :/21:06
summatusmentisuh oh... my xfce panels disappeared21:06
johnxwell I think. I mean...I never really looked21:06
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Navisummatusmentis, probably crashed21:07
johnxsummatusmentis, tap and hold on the root window21:07
johnxif you get a menu you're saved :)21:07
summatusmentisjohnx: not on NIT, sorry :)21:07
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Navijust run xfce4-panel then21:07
summatusmentisI'm just complaining :)21:07
Navicomplainers all get pitchforque'd21:07
summatusmentisthanks Navi21:07
* summatusmentis hides from the pitchforque21:08
NaviI need to add a GB of ram into this box or something21:08
Naviit'd run so much smoother if I did :|21:08
johnxhow much does it have now?21:09
johnxalso, what kinda box? cardboard? wood?21:09
KotCzarnychatter box21:09
* qwerty12_N800 has 2gb21:10
johnxuhm, yes21:10
johnxeven another 512MB would do wonders21:10
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NaviI haven't felt the need to up it 'till now21:10
qwerty12_N800useful for mounting initfses...21:10
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KotCzarnygah. i had to run menuconfig thrice21:13
johnxyeah, the kernel's gotten bigger these days21:13
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johnxI've been compiling my own since 1998 but the latest 2.6 releases are a little crazy21:13
qwerty12_N800make qtconfig is all the love I need.21:14
KotCzarnyqwerty: sure, especially over ssh21:14
johnxKotCzarny, ssh -X21:14
summatusmentisI don't like the X stuff21:14
qwerty12_N800ssh! it's even better!21:14
KotCzarnyjohnx: ncurses version is faster21:15
johnxof course21:15
johnxI never disagreed :P21:15
KotCzarnyok, 5th time21:17
Naviweechat is totally memory leaking21:18
qwerty12_N800irssi ftw21:18
Naviit's eating 75MB21:18
qwerty12_N800after xchat that is21:18
johnxwait, you guys don't use telnet for IRC?21:19
NaviI'm not to big a fan of irssi21:19
vililikkuDebian is cool in n80021:19
NaviI couldn't ever get irssi to look the way I wanted21:19
vililikkubtw :D21:19
johnxvililikku, glad you like it :D21:19
Navivililikku, if by cool, you mean nerdy21:19
qwerty12_N800ircii? you can be as boring as rst then :p21:19
KotCzarnyepic ftw!21:19
KnirchircII with schl0ng!21:20
Naviqwerty12_N800, ircii is fine21:20
qwerty12_N800looks pretty dull though.21:21
Navibut I like my weechat script too :P21:21
NaviAnyways, I'll be back21:21
Navifreeing up some memory21:21
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johnxwoo! a nice package of smbnetfs!21:22
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qwerty12_N800johnx, solmumaha's stuff?21:23
KotCzarnyi love the modules which require booting from new kernel21:23
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johnxqwerty12_N800, solmumaha's wasn't based on the debian packages...and it had a couple issues that made it less than "install and go"21:24
qwerty12_N800i <3 them21:24
qwerty12_N800johnx, Ah. your packages or from another source :)21:24
johnxdebian :)21:24
qwerty12_N800Ah :)21:25
johnxjust a quick hack to the control file and it builds nicely21:25
summatusmentisis there a VM for maemo dev?21:25
johnxsummatusmentis, yes.21:25
qwerty12_N800by indt team21:25
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qwerty12_N800Installing it on real linux or at least andlinux is better imho though21:26
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johnxit shouldn't make much difference if you have a fast machine and lots of RAM21:26
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johnxit wouldn't be fun for Navi though :P21:27
qwerty12_N800I prefer the better integration21:27
* johnx got his 2 sticks of 512MB in a box of cereal21:27
qwerty12_N800Who has spare ram to donate to Navi? :p21:28
NaviMy brother's PC is several times better (and several years newer) than mine :P21:28
qwerty12_N800Swap the motherboard :p21:28
johnxheh...actually, my little sister's computer is faster than mine too21:28
johnxhadn't thought of that21:28
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* GAN800 bought big enough thag the family laptops haven't quite caught up. . . .21:29
johnxany fuse filesystems people are interested in?21:29
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NaviMy brother's box has 2.5GB ram and the last Pentium D made21:29
KotCzarnyjohnx: wikipedia fs ?21:30
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Navilike, the model21:30
Navinot the last last one21:30
qwerty12_N800johnx, weedfs?21:30
johnxKotCzarny, sure, I'll look at it21:30
johnxqwerty12_N800, what is that?21:30
qwerty12_N800lol, nothing :)21:30
* johnx shakes his head...qwerty is weird21:30
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qwerty12_N800lets just say, I'd have to pay lots for weedfs....21:31
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johnxqwerty12_N800, yes...I think people get it21:31
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KotCzarnyi wonder if diablo initfs will work with chinook rootfs21:31
Naviweed isn't that expensive21:32
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qwerty12_N800Navi = ex-dealer21:32
qwerty12_N800KotCzarny, Should do. same kernel version.21:32
KotCzarnybut diff software version21:33
qwerty12_N800i was using chinook initfs with diablo rootfs fine21:33
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KotCzarnyqwerty, can you check something for me?21:35
KotCzarnyis /mnt/inifs/usr/bin/bme_RX-34 bunch of 0s at the beginning?21:35
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KotCzarny(on diablo initfs)21:35
qwerty12_N800will cat work?21:36
KotCzarnyuse less21:36
KotCzarny0 are ^@21:36
qwerty12_N800Doesn't look like it21:37
KotCzarnythen i got broken fs after unpacking21:37
qwerty12_N800KotCzarny, If you can wait till tommorow morning (for me, gmt), then I can ggive u tarball of diablo initfs21:38
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KotCzarnyi'll find out the cause myself21:38
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qwerty12_N800your call. meanwhile, i need to do fixes on yoour colour mod for me. can't see anything except for boot selection items :/21:42
KotCzarnyprobably you have missed some -T 021:42
qwerty12_N800Yeah :)21:43
KotCzarnyi used search & replace in mcedit21:43
KotCzarnymakes it easy ;)21:43
qwerty12_N800I'll dump the initfs on the device and use leafpad21:43
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qwerty12_N800brb, i need to see if fb is working21:44
KotCzarnyinitfs from may 9th works ok21:44
KotCzarnytoday's is weird21:45
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KotCzarny./batttest -b <state>21:50
KotCzarny  -b  --battery           Send battery type21:50
KotCzarny  -c  --charger                 Send charger status (0=disc, 1=conn)21:50
KotCzarnydoes it mean we can make battery charging?21:50
qwerty12_N800seen that one, never figured it out.21:50
qwerty12_N800i think it's used in linuxrc21:50
KotCzarnyactually playing with initfs is easy without reflashing21:51
KotCzarny1/ mount initfs via jffs2 on pc21:52
KotCzarny2/ mount that pc via sshfs21:52
KotCzarny3/ chroot into that initfs21:52
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johnxhey rm_you21:52
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johnxbye rm_you :/21:52
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KotCzarnyhe was fast ;)21:52
qwerty12_N800running away from johnx :p21:53
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NaviWe all do what we can to stay away from johnx21:53
johnx...and yet it's never quite enough21:53
Naviinclude bribing the pilot to take the long route to avoid flying over Japan21:54
infobotNavi meant: including bribing the pilot to take the long route to avoid flying over Japan21:54
fysa(:x21:54 that's what bribing is? with the gun and the ski masks?21:54
infobotfysa meant: s/-o/-o21:55
qwerty12_N800make ur mind up :p21:55
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fysasorry. :P21:55
fysaI can't stop.21:56
KotCzarnywimax module is pc2400m.ko21:56
fysaI missed the last slash.21:56
* fysa dies21:56
qwerty12_N800i've already mentioned that on here :/21:57
johnxfysa, trying to use an escape code to crash the intarwebs?21:57
KotCzarnynever saw that21:57
qwerty12_N800interface is wimax0 :)21:57
qwerty12_N800brb, you can now hatch up ur plans to kill me21:57
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NaviWhat the hell?21:58
NaviI hate midguard21:58
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infobotNavi meant: I hate midgard21:59
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AStormlatest -omap has full HW keyboard support21:59
AStormincluding stickiness21:59
AStormalthough, the map is US21:59
NaviI can't save a change on midgard :|21:59
johnxyay! everyone will have sticky keyboards!21:59
AStormI need to write a DE/PL map21:59
AStormjohnx: lol22:00
qwerty12_N800AStorm, us? :(22:00
AStormqwerty12_N800: US layout22:00
qwerty12_N800Hehe, my bad, I mean WHY us!?! :p22:00
AStorm~lart qwerty12_N800 adlib22:01
* infobot shoots qwerty12_N800 adlib in the head22:01
johnxqwerty12_N800, If you write the code, you get to pick the keymap :P22:01
disqqwerty: any luck with the latest initfs?22:03
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qwerty12_N800disq, Theres a new one? :o22:03
disqisn't there, with the update? kernel-diablo-flasher is updated i assumed so was initfs22:04
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KotCzarnyluck about what?22:04
qwerty12_N800Nah, initfs is separate to that package22:04
disqKotCzarny: shrinkage :)22:04
disqyep, initfs-flasher is updated too22:05
qwerty12_N800excuse me, but shitfuck. seems like there is a new one and  I spent 3 hours adding coloured bootmenu into the old one :(22:05
qwerty12_N800i'll strip the new one and merge my files from the old one into the new one and remake differences to new linuxrc22:07
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AStorm~dict shitfuck22:09
infobotcould not find definition for shitfuck22:09
KotCzarnyi presume there is no new kernel source?22:09
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AStormKotCzarny: definitely, but 2.6.26-rc1-omap should be good22:10
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AStormKotCzarny: what about my btrfs-progs?22:10
{abo}Helllooo... :)22:10
KotCzarnyastorm: if you have read what i have written you would know22:11
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AStormsorry, my log has overflowed22:11
AStormis it there already?22:11
* AStorm runs to test22:12
KotCzarnyit built without fixing anything22:12
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AStormmaybe it got fixed upstream22:12
KotCzarnyunless i missed some error messages22:12
AStorm(I notified the devs)22:12
summatusmentiscan I map tab to a key on the N810?22:12
AStormyou can make your own keymap22:13
summatusmentisawesome :) will be purchasing one22:13
AStormbut to do so, get ukeyboard22:13
summatusmentisI'm not sure I like the fn thing, but I can handle it22:13
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KotCzarnytar: usr/bin/test_panel: Cannot stat: Input/output error22:14
KotCzarnytar: usr/lib/ Cannot stat: Input/output error22:14
* {abo} just booted from MMC :)22:14
KotCzarnytest_panel i could ignore22:14
KotCzarnybut libcal22:14
* {abo} doesn't need any help then :)22:14
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legindwhen I try to plug in my EVDO to the n800 usb in host mode, I get this: [  401.773437] tusb_source_power 629: VBUS a_idle, devctl 80 otg 184 conf c0000001 prcm 00a8050022:15
AStormIO error?22:15
AStormsounds like out of disk space22:15
leginddoes this mean that the n800 can't supply enough power?22:16
KotCzarnyastorm: unlikely22:16
qwerty12_N800legind, use usb hub22:16
legindqwerty12_N800, a usb hub with external power source?22:16
AStormyes, you need a powered hub22:16
KotCzarnybecause bigger (and older) initfs mounted/copied ok22:16
Veggenn800 doesn't supply power at all?22:16
Veggenn810 supplys some?22:16
AStormboth do22:17
AStormup to 100 mA22:17
AStorm*maybe* 200 mA when forced22:17
AStorm(that's the max on that LDO wire from Menelaus)22:17
AStormbut USB has two levels: 100 mA and 500 mA22:17
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AStormKotCzarny: you broke your flash22:19
KotCzarnyastorm: nope22:19
AStormmaybe just an upload error ;P22:19
KotCzarnyi'm peeking inside diablo initfs22:19
KotCzarnynot flashing anything yet22:19
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* johnx <3 dbus-scripts22:20
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KotCzarnyinterestingly initfs 2weeks old doesn't have such problems22:20
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AStorm~whatis <322:20
qwerty12_N800f00king :p22:20
AStormno, 222:21
liquid217You guys might get a kick out of this.  The dude uses a 770 to demonstrate bluetooth insecurities:
qwerty12_N800saw  that on digg :/22:22
johnxliquid217, cool22:22
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summatusmentisanother reason to not use those dorky looking headset things22:22
KotCzarnylot's of fun happening in dmesg.22:22
qwerty12_N800yerga's leaving message reminds me of nsync22:22
NaviYou don't have to demonstrate bluetooth insecurities22:22
Naviit's fun though22:23
KotCzarnyqwerty, are you sure you have complete tar.gz ?22:23
qwerty12_N800i'm using it now ;)22:23
qwerty12_N800but it's old one22:23
m-chey guys - thanks for your help in the past getting the OGG codecs installed on my N800.  Now, how can I set up the file manager so that the .OGG file types are always opened with the Media Player (OGG) ?  This file association does not get "remembered"22:24
qwerty12_N800use kulve's ogg-support22:24
AStormm-c: check mime database22:24
AStormyes :-)22:24
KotCzarnyPerhaps the file system was created with the wrong erase size?22:25
KotCzarnywhat's the correct erasesize for initfs?22:25
m-cqwerty12_N800: that's how I got the Media Player (OGG) working22:25
qwerty12_N800it should have associated with that then :/22:26
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qwerty12_N800AStorm  is right though22:26
qwerty12_N800edit defaults.list22:26
m-cdirectory of defaults.list , please?22:27
m-cetc ?22:27
acydlordanyone ever notice there is a guy talking on an n800 in one of the cisco commercials22:27
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qwerty12_N800/usr/share/applications iirc22:27
{abo}Uhm... I managed to boot the N810 from a removeable micro-SD card. But it's mounting the card both as / and as /media/mmc1, and ignoring the internal 2 GB flash. It seems that during the boot process mmcblk0 is the SD card, then the SD card shows up as mmcblk1. Any suggestions?22:27
summatusmentiswhere does the micro sd go?22:27
{abo}summatusmentis: Hmm?22:28
hrwsummatusmentis: microsd + minisd adapter22:28
summatusmentis{abo}: on the N810, where is the slod22:29
summatusmentisoh, mini sd slot22:29
{abo}summatusmentis: Ah, behind the table stand thing.22:29
hrwKotCzarny: EXTRA_IMAGECMD_jffs2_nokia800 = "--pad --little-endian --eraseblock=0x20000 -n"22:29
summatusmentisI found that one(was playing w/ a device earlier), but had it in my head that a micro sd was what the N810 supported22:29
KotCzarny128k ?22:29
hrwKotCzarny: yep22:30
m-cqwerty12_N800: default.list is linked to /etc/gnome , also22:30
{abo}summatusmentis: Well yeah since noone sells mini-SD, you get micro-SD + adapter anyway. :)22:30
acydlord2 microsd slots instead of 1 mini sd would have been nice22:30
summatusmentis{abo}: that's fair :)22:30
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qwerty12_N800m-c, yep. edited that on pc before i realised properties did same thing :/22:31
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hrwacydlord: omap2430 supports only 2 sd slots22:31
m-cand defaults.list is owned by root, so that explains why I cannot save my settings  :/22:31
hrwacydlord: and there is one used for internal card22:31
qwerty12_N800anything in /etc and /usr needz root22:32
AStorm{abo}: that's been worked around in fanoush' initfs22:32
m-cand I need to red pill my NIT to get root, or something, huh?22:32
qwerty12_N800easyroot @ www.nitapps.com22:33
NaviJust install easyroot, becomeroot, or ssh22:33
m-cokay, thanks22:33
{abo}AStorm: Ah... Yeah I just copied the rootfs and enabled mmc boot, didn't install anything like that.22:33
qwerty12_N800you should :/22:33 :) :) :)  nice site22:34
* {abo} hmms22:34
Navihmms x 222:35
* qwerty12_N800 sighs as i set framebuffer back into manual22:35
m-cdid not realize this NIT could tell me the temperature, too!  is there no end to the new features?  ;-)22:35
acydlordthat feature has been around at least a year22:36
acydlordwell that app22:36
qwerty12_N800it's a script22:36
KotCzarnyno erase size between 64 and 128k worked22:36
qwerty12_N800i use it in conky22:36
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hrwKotCzarny: believe me - n8x0 has 128k eraseblock22:39
Veggenm-c: It has a light censor.22:40
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m-cVeggen: the n800 ?22:40
Veggenm-c: uh, perhaps not. but the n810 has.22:40
acydlordthe n81022:40
qwerty12_N800810 only22:40
m-cguess I will have to wait for a camera hack to tell when it is non-dark22:40
qwerty12_N800810's led is also multi coloured :(22:41
qwerty12_N800my 800 is boring blue :(22:41
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{abo}qwerty12_N800: It's fun to look at the RGB led while moving the N810. :)22:41
m-cthankfully, I am pretty good at sensing dark and non-dark environments, myself22:41
{abo}You can see the individual colours.22:41
qwerty12_N800:), in diablo mce, you can customize light patterns22:42
NaviAnyone know what language this is:
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qwerty12_N800also there is python script to choose colours22:42
m-cNavi: login required22:42
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JaffaNavi: dutch?22:42
Navim-c, remove the s22:42
JaffaNavi: Google agrees:
m-clooks like sweedish22:43
qwerty12_N800i'm good at recognising langs, wait a sec22:43
NaviI can't get the new google translate UI to work22:44
qwerty12_N800it's dutch for sure22:44
NaviI'd ask my multilingual friend, but he's working right now22:44
summatusmentisis that a full fledged usb port? I missed that when I was playing earlier22:44
m-cit is dutch / flemish22:44
Navim-c, it's no problem22:44
NaviThanks guys22:44
m-csorry to all you sweeds out there I offended22:44
m-cor dutch22:44
m-cand everyone else22:45
JaffaDidn't I already say Dutch, like 2 hours ago? ;-)22:45
NaviThat makes it the only Dutch page I've come across so far22:46
qwerty12_N800Jaffa, exaggerate much? :p22:46
NaviJaffa, you saying something reminds me22:46
JaffaI've told you 100,000 times, I don't exagerate22:46
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NaviJaffa, does tablet-encode transcode videos at a variable bitrate?22:47
JaffaNavi: yes22:48
NaviThought so22:48
Navithe minimum that is calculated is really low22:48
JaffaI'm not aware of an option you can pass to lavc in mencoder to do it differently.22:48
JaffaYou can specify a max, you may be able to specify a min22:48
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NaviI couldn't find a way to do it within tablet-encode without setting the variable myself22:49
Naviit looked really bad with animated videos22:49
JaffaI'd be happy to add an option - or even an auto-calculated default - for min bitrate if you let me know the mencoder synatx (saves me looking it up ;-))22:50
Navitablet-encode's spoiled me, so I've forgotten how to use ffmpeg and mencoder22:50
NaviI have to reference manuals to use 'em now :P22:51
JaffaFairy nuff, I'll do  grep on the manpage.22:51
NaviFairy :D Hey! Listen!22:51
JaffaFairly obviously, it's "vrc_minrate" (to go with "vrc_maxrate" which is already specified.22:51
JaffaWhat'd you reckon a good auto minimum is? Half the specified bitrate? 3/4?22:52
m-csorry - need more help - I inserted ... audio/ogg=hildon-mp_ui.desktop  ... into defaults.list, but there was no change in the File Manager.  Still not playing OGG files automatically22:52
Navihalf sounds okay for most people22:52
m-ccan someone check the syntax in their own /etc/gnome/defaults.list and tell me what they have?22:53
qwerty12_N800try running update-mime-database22:53
JaffaNavi: cool, I'll do it in next version22:53
KotCzarnyfinally mounted cleanly22:53
NaviJaffa, woo \o/22:53
KotCzarnybut older one. hum22:53
KotCzarnyis it me or current initfs in diablo is broken?22:54
qwerty12_N800i'll take a look tomorrow22:54
qwerty12_N800should be able to work  my magic on the new one22:55
AStormKotCzarny: make a repo finally22:55
KotCzarnyah, nvm22:55
AStormis it so hard to write one .install file?22:55
KotCzarnyseems i have broken it with previous mount22:55
KotCzarnyastorm: i don't wanna22:55
KotCzarnysomeone could add it to gronamyer22:55
KotCzarnyand i start breaking people tablets22:55
AStormtheir fault22:56
KotCzarnyastorm: packages is in n800/dist/22:56
AStormI know]22:56
AStormbtw, something in very base system is leaking mem :P22:57
m-cno change on the mime db22:57
AStormah, no22:57
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m-cjust other people having mime issues22:59
KotCzarnyusbflasher went from 23k to 139k in 3 weeks22:59
* KotCzarny compares files in initfs22:59
JaffaNavi: initial version of v2.19 now in subversion which should do what you want -
qwerty12_N800Jaffa, nice work ( :)23:00
Jaffaseems to work on a quick Family Guy test, but time to go and help Mrs Jaffa with the ironing23:01
KotCzarnyand some changes to omap2420_pa.bin23:02
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KotCzarnyif i see correctly23:03
KotCzarnythere is
KotCzarnydoes it mean we have iwconfig support now?23:03
m-cmaybe I should reinstall that OGG configuration23:04
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grumpusdoes anyone know if it is possible to install scratchbox on ubuntu/powerpc ?23:07
AStormKotCzarny: seems it still hangs23:07
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AStormis it really the latest snapshot?23:07
KotCzarnyit was 14-something23:08
hrw|goneJaffa: "tablet-encode -g" should open gui even without args23:08
AStormno, it must be -git23:08
AStormolder ones hang23:08
KotCzarnylink for git repo?23:08
AStorm(excluding really old ones)23:08
KotCzarnypreferrably for a cmd line23:08
AStormgoogle has the link, but it's at git.kernel.org23:08
KotCzarnyfind me23:08
AStormit's not in mercurial repo :>23:09
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grumpusor is scratchbox i386-only?23:09
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AStormgrumpus: scratchbox itself, probably not23:10
AStormqemu, yes23:10
m-ckulve :)23:10
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AStormKotCzarny: you can easily grab a tar.bz2 from there too23:10
grumpusqemu runs on powerpc23:10
AStormtar.gz actually23:10
KotCzarnytip.tar.gz ?23:11
AStormgrumpus: but not qemu-system for arm23:11
AStormKotCzarny: yes23:11
grumpusoh :(23:11
grumpusmy second question: did someone ever compile fortune for maemo? ;)23:12
AStormKotCzarny: alternative url:
KotCzarnyyou don't care about -Werror, right?23:13
AStormI don't, as long as it works23:13
AStormgimme a log with warnings for posterity23:13
AStorm(will feed it through cmason)23:13
KotCzarnyextent-tree.c: In function `btrfs_make_block_groups':23:13
KotCzarnyextent-tree.c:2362: warning: 'bit' might be used uninitialized in this function23:13
KotCzarnyinsn failed23:13
KotCzarnywhat was that fix line again?23:13
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AStorm*something = NULL23:14
Jaffahrw|gone: Hmm, thought it did. Doh.23:14
AStormto memset(something, 0, sizeof typeofthatsomething);23:14
KotCzarny        sb_ptr = offsetof(struct btrfs_super_block, sys_chunk_array);23:14
KotCzarnyok, how to fix it?23:14
AStormhm, get a newer compiler? ;P23:15
KotCzarnyi had 4.2.3 somewhere23:17
KotCzarnybut where23:17
czranyone on tokyo in the next 3-4 days?23:17
czrin even.23:18
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timelyi'll be in berlin23:18
timelythat's close, right?23:18
NaviIndeed it is23:18
czrwell, close enough!23:18
czrbut not maybe for a meet / tee / coffee / whatnot23:18
czrtimely, berlin = pleasure or biznis?23:19
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timelymy trips are generally not what i would normally consider "pleasure"23:20
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czrmine neither. that's why this time I'm making an exception23:20
KotCzarnybad trips?23:21
KotCzarnychange your dealer23:21
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AStormit's a good dealer23:21
czrKotCzarny, work-related :-)23:21
AStormit pays for the trips23:21
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* qwerty12_N800 dealer is expensive...23:21
czrwork-related trips = suck ass normally. too tight schedule & too tired to do anything at the location if it even to happens to be any location you'd like to me (mostly not for me)23:21
czrto be even.23:22
KotCzarnypays for the trips but doesn allow to relax :)23:22
qwerty12_N800ot, but how do epileptic people cope in Japan?23:24
qwerty12_N800or rather Tokyo23:24
johnxI would assume they don't23:25
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johnxmaybe leave their eyes closed the whole freakin' time?23:25
qwerty12_N800hehe, poor people23:25
AStormthey wear nifty blink removing glasses?23:26
AStormmaybe they all died out already23:26
* czr has no idea. I wouldn't it to be too much worse than NY wrt flashing blinkenlichts23:26
Navijohnx, I leve my eyes closed23:26
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NaviIt makes people think you're crazy/blind/drunk/homeless, so it's funny23:28
AStormKotCzarny: how the compile goes?23:29
KotCzarnyinstalling gcc 4.2.123:29
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KotCzarnyany idea where apt-get downloads packages?23:33
disqerr i know i know23:34
qwerty12_N800/var/cache/simewhere iirc23:34
KotCzarnyand in sbox1 context?23:34
disq /var/cache/apt/archives?23:34
qwerty12_N800kot, outside sbox?23:34
KotCzarnyok, found it23:36
KotCzarny /mnt/hda5/scratchbox/users/sbox/targets/chexp/var/cache/apt/archives23:36
KotCzarnyNeed to get 0B/65.3MB of archives.23:36
KotCzarnynice thing, not to redownload it ;)23:36
qwerty12_N800i did same with 1st diablo install ;)23:37
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summatusmentisjohnx: do you have the VM? you linked a torrent, but it's not seeding very well23:44
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RST38hso, how are thing?23:46
AStormKotCzarny: ok, still installing that gcc?23:46
KotCzarnyastorm, yup23:47
qwerty12_N800tings dont run we, we run tings23:47
johnxsummatusmentis, nope. sorry. I use the maemo sdk directly23:47
KotCzarnyqemu freaked out23:47
summatusmentisjohnx: alright23:47
AStormKotCzarny: omg23:47
KotCzarnyso i'm reinstalling 4.2.1 target23:47
KotCzarnyand downloading scratchbox-toolchain-arm-linux-cs2008q1-126sb1_1.0.8~20080421173500-1_i38623:48
johnxsummatusmentis, there's a two part direct download up too, it looks like23:48
keesjthe radare looks very interesting23:49
summatusmentisI might just install it then... I don't know...23:49
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johnxhmm, install the sdk directly?23:50
KotCzarnyjohnx: hmm?23:50
johnxKotCzarny, talking to summatusmentis23:50
summatusmentisjohnx: I'm not sure... whatever is on the VM :) presumably the SDK23:50
RST38hKot: Screw qemu - does not work right anyway23:51
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KotCzarnyrst: we will see with 1.0823:51
RST38htrying to open a maemo file dialog in qemu makes it coredump application 100% of the time23:51
johnxsummatusmentis, why not just download the VM? there's a direct download link on the site I linked...23:51
summatusmentisthere is?23:52
johnxright below the torrent link23:52
johnxit's in two parts23:52
NaviDon't forget to seed torrents23:53
summatusmentisoh, I get it23:53
summatusmentismy bad23:53
johnxthat's ok. :)23:53
AStormRST38h: hehehe23:53
johnxI'm going to bed now though :P23:53
AStormthus, we should write a real emulator23:53
Navijohnx, pretty late :P23:53
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johnxNavi, got your world clock setup? I have afternoon shift today23:54
NaviNo, but I've memorized timezones for different parts of the world23:54
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johnxanyways, night all :P23:55
RST38hAStorm: just use a real thing!23:57
AStormRST38h: sure, if it wasn't so sloooow23:57
AStormyou know how long just a build of a few things from CPAN took?23:57
AStormto get anywhere near usable speed, I'd need an array of 20 such devices23:57
KotCzarnyastorm: what about new kernel?23:58
KotCzarny(while packages are installing)23:58
AStormI'll update and build it23:58
NaviRST38h, sure, I'll start using a real NES and stop playing with iNES23:59
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jeff1fAnyone think I can have both a bt headset and the n810 tethered to a n95 at the same time?23:59

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