Comparing Neo-Daoism with Karezza

Marnia's picture
Submitted by Marnia on
Printer-friendly version





Alas, men also report that this impressive lovemaking—which produces lots of orgasms in their partners, and lots of mini-orgasms (without ejaculation) in themselves—does not counter the Coolidge Effect. (Indeed, it may even strengthen it.) That is, although Chia’s performance-oriented method doesn’t leave men depleted—as does regular, ejaculatory, sex—it also doesn’t leave them emotionally bonded with a partner for very long. I suspect that it also does not promote the “valley orgasm” experience. (More in a moment.)

Sadly, Chia’s own experience led to this same outcome. Two visitors to his center in Thailand (one an insider) independently informed me that he left his wife of many years, in pursuit of a young girl from the local village. This behavior is very consistent with the Coolidge Effect. It’s quite inconsistent with the experience of merging deeply with a lover in the “valley orgasm.” That experience, which has been alluded to in various traditions, is a spiritual experience, which enhances vision so we don't feel compelled to follow biology's dictates in our mating choices.

Recently, I’ve had the gift of input from two men who have used Chia’s system for years. One reports that he has no desire for a monogamous relationship, and resents his partners’ desire for one. As he wrote:

I now know how to have sex for hours without depletion. That gives me the energy and stamina. I have always had the desire for lots of women. This is the way to accomplish that. … Each successive girlfriend would invariably request that I comply with an exclusivity clause, with a view towards long-term monogamy, that I couldn't bring myself to agree to.

The other man has also experimented with karezza, and discovered that it created different feelings from those he experienced using Chia’s practices.

For a long time I'd been doing Taoist-style sex with my wife with good results—using exercises, lovemaking techniques and energy visualizations. However, I decided to set it aside temporarily to learn more about Karezza. The first thing I noticed was that Karezza got the same results as my old Taoist practices. But Karezza required no specialized energy work. All I did was to remain nearly still while engaged in sex and breathed slow deep breaths. I did nothing else. Anyone could do Karezza. I soon started to sense another feeling that I didn't recognize—a deep satisfying feeling. I guess it was the oxytocin, the cuddle hormone. It feels like peace and love all mixed up together—a sensation of being in love with life.

In addition to learning from these observers, I have been learning a lot about bonding behaviors—the subconscious mammalian cues that are the fundamental wellspring of emotional glue between mates. Putting it all together, I think that I can at last shed some constructive light on the differences between Chia's neo-Taoist lovemaking advice and the karezza concept.

Two nervous system responses

To understand the difference, you may find it helpful to have a short science lesson about your nervous system. The nerves that connect with organs and blood vessels (as opposed to muscles) are divided into two sets. One set governs such activities as digestion, regeneration of the body, rest, and sexual arousal. Experts call it the “parasympathetic nervous system.” The other nervous system governs performance, and fight-or-flight activity. Somewhat bizarrely, it is labeled the “sympathetic nervous system.”Nervous system comparison chart (The names have nothing to do with emotions. They refer only to the nearness of the sets of nerves to the spine.)

Chia’s vigorous, performance-oriented approach to lovemaking would be a function of the so-called sympathetic nervous system. (So is ejaculation, by the way.) In contrast, the valley orgasm seems to be a function of parasympathetic nervous system activity - or of a perfect balance between the two. It is a relaxation response. Interestingly, bonding behaviors also appear to produce parasympathetic responses (and more sustained levels of oxytocin).

In short, the body “reads” bonding behaviors as signals for feeling safe, and getting closer. It may be that the body does not “read” performance-oriented lovemaking as a bonding signal, but rather as something more akin to a “fight or flight” activity, or signal. The latter drive may produce orgasms, but not feelings of safety and a desire to get closer.

In our personal experience, intense arousal (which Chia indirectly recommends as part of his performance-oriented techniques) can lead to dopamine cycles of highs and lows…even without ejaculation, or conventional orgasm. Intense arousal can produce subsequent emotional flatness or anxious cravings in response to exciting cues (like an erotic image, or attractive body). These mood swings can actually change one's perception of one's current partner. He or she may appear less interesting, while a novel partner appears quite delicious. This is, of course, the Coolidge Effect…which has been observed in all mammals tested, both male and female.

In short, orgasms are not necessarily effective bonding behaviors. Yes, I know that oxytocin often surges briefly at orgasm, but human behavior shows that orgasm is not emotional glue…even if it can foster a temporary addiction between lovers, where they look to each other for relief from post-orgasmic cravings and anxiety. Besides, that oxytocin surge in the blood at orgasm may not be as critical to emotional bonding as oxytocin releases in the brain, about which we know very little in humans.

In any case, high dopamine can trigger unnaturally low dopamine sensitivity, and recurring low dopamine response appears to erode emotional bonds over time. We need both oxytocin and dopamine at the right levels to keep our emotional bonds strong. For this reason, dopamine that drops after sexual satiation, or dopamine that remains too high and produces sexual frustration, can be a problem. Bonding behavior (including gentle intercourse), rather than intense arousal, appears to be the best way to keep both dopamine and oxytocin at healthy levels for sustaining emotional bonds.

Often lovers think they can’t make love without sexual performance, at least to some degree. However, unlike orgasm, sexual arousal is not a performance-oriented, sympathetic nervous system response. Arousal is a function of the parasympathetic nervous system. In other words, relaxation, not forced performance, is best for sexual arousal.

Perhaps this is why karezza authors Stockham and Lloyd both emphasize calm, relaxed intercourse, rather than performance-oriented intercourse. So did ancient Daoist master Laozi: “Where ordinary intercourse is effortful, angelic cultivation is calm, relaxed, quiet, and natural.” This approach increases the harmony between partners. Said Laozi, “The result of this [practice] is improved health, harmonized emotions, the cessation of cravings and impulses, and, at the highest level, the transcendent integration of the entire energy body.”

Here's what a (third) man, who has been practicing this approach to sex for over a decade, said:

While I dont think there is anything inherently wrong with using the [Taoist] semen retention technique, it does imply an ejaculation-control approach to lovemaking. Ejaculation control is core to Taoist sexual practices, which is actually where I started. There was no information about karezza at that time, and I merrily went along in a ejaculation control mode. At the time it was infinitely better than the conventional approach I was used to.

As time went by I realized I didnt want to be in a "control" mode but rather in a "flow" mode. The control mode meant there was a build up of tension, and I was preferring the relaxed state which didn't require control.

The thing about ejaculation control is the focus on control. And the need for control is caused by a build up of energy to the point where it needs to be controlled. I would say that I moved from ejaculation control to being non-ejaculatory. There two very distinctly different body spaces. In the first one, the genitals tense up and require control (a state of effort). In the other, they stay relaxed and more connected with my partner (a state of awareness).

Soul orgasm

loversIn a more recent book, Chia acknowledges three levels of sexual experience: genital orgasm, whole-body orgasm and soul orgasm. He teaches that his performance techniques, which produce mini-orgasms, can lead to whole-body orgasm. In contrast, the soul orgasm is not something that lovers can force with performance. It arises from exchanging energy and “fusing” with one's partner.

The second man mentioned above explained to me that neither genital nor whole-body orgasms have anything to do with the "soul orgasm." They are both actually forms of “fertilization-driven sex.” Whole-body orgasm is just a diverting of the usual genital orgasm, which works as follows:

The feeling of coming—ejaculation or female single orgasm—is caused by the accumulation of "too much" sex energy in the sex organs. Every time you feel you're getting close to ejaculation, if a male, or every time you get close to the single orgasm, if a female, you are to draw the sex energy up the spine and away from your sex organs. This relieves the urge to ejaculate or have the single orgasm. It lets you start over in your climb to ecstasy, but not quite.

According to him, a whole-body orgasm is superior to the genital orgasm in that it’s less depleting, but it has little to do with “fusing” with a partner. It is not a steppingstone to the “soul orgasm.” He says it still leaves him with a desire to ejaculate…eventually. This is in contrast with karezza, which leaves him feeling satisfied with recurring feelings of bliss. These may arise even after intercourse, or without intercourse - simply through hugging or gazing into his wife's eyes.

Intense (conventional) orgasmic experiences may lead to altered states. But they also have hidden, subconscious hangovers that interfere, over time, with intimacy. They eventually promote stagnation or relationship friction. So conventional, and even "whole-body," orgasmic approaches are not a way to increase the union between male and female...although they do unite genitals briefly. In short, they are a glimpse of union...perhaps...but not a path to union. I suspect that the soul orgasm is the same goal the karezza practitioners were trying to describe.

I suspect it is also the experience Laozi was talking about when he used the term "angelic dual cultivation." I believe that relaxed, transcendent experiences during lovemaking will turn out to be a function of the parasympathetic nervous system (or a unique balanced state between the two systems, reflecting a special state of mind). From a scientific perspective, such experiences will have little in common with sexual performance, genital or whole-body orgasms, most tantric orgasms, or the so-called sympathetic nervous system.

The soul orgasm is an experience of “being,” not “doing,” of “merging,” not “doing to,” and of “relaxation,” not “performance.” The body registers such an experience as a profound bonding behavior, unlike either the performance-oriented genital orgasm, or its close relative, the whole-body orgasm.

Perhaps with a clearer target, and an understanding of how these different orgasms relate to our nervous system and influence our urge to bond (or not), it will be easier to choose the outcome we desire - whether we happen to be thinking in terms of karezza, Daoist lovemaking practices, or any other sacred sex tradition. The key to slipping into blissful relaxation together is not doing.1

A holy relationship is a means of saving time. One instant spent together with your brother restores the universe to both of you. You *are* prepared. Now you need but to remember you need do nothing. It would be far more profitable now merely to concentrate on this than to consider what you should do. When peace comes at last to those who wrestle with temptation and fight against the giving in to [it]; when the light comes at last into the mind given to contemplation; or when the goal is finally achieved by anyone, it always comes with just one happy realization;

*I need do nothing." ... "I need do nothing" is a statement of allegiance, a truly undivided loyalty. Believe it for just one instant, and you will accomplish more than is given to a century of contemplation, or of struggle against temptation. To do anything involves the body. And if you recognize you need do nothing, you have withdrawn the body's value from your mind. Here is the quick and open door through which you slip past centuries of effort, and escape from time.


Incidentally, Chia's book Taoist Secrets of Love: Cultivating Male Sexual Energy does mention karezza, but describes its history, its goal, and the technique itself quite inaccurately on pp. 60-1:

karezza excerpt

karezza excerpt

To clarify, karezza did not originate in Persia. It had nothing to do with harems. It is not about increasing or prolonging physical pleasure (or performance of any kind). It is ideally a spiritual communion of souls, according to both Stockham (who gave it its name) and Lloyd. Therefore karezza certainly does permit "true depth."

  • 1. A Course in Miracles, Foundation for Inner Peace, T-18, VII.5-7


Tiered browsing:


There is a place in 'Cultivating Male Sexual Energy'

where Chia exhorts men who are accomplished in Tantric practice not to abuse their newfound powers (ie by just sleeping around more). He says in that connection that the Tao is, ultimately, for cultivating love, real love, and spiritual awareness. He also adds that according to Taoist thought, it takes 7 years to get to know a woman's body, another 7 to know her mind, and 7 to know her spirit. That's 21 years in total, and though it is allegorical it is clear what the intended gist of it is. (Some of these quotes I may have read in "The Multi-Orgasmic Man", I'm not sure (same author.)

I will investigate both Karezza and Taoist practices when I get the opportunity. Wink I must admit that I too have met Tantric practitioners of both varieties: those who practice in the context of a loving relationship, and those who are just looking around for some 'good shakti'. From my limited understanding, the former type is actually practicing in the true spirit of the Tao, whereas the latter are missing the mark.


That's interesting, Senel Coolidge is a character in Tales of Legendia. Chloe Valentine says his name a lot. I wish they could share this love.

Great Post


The experts are probably correct that karazza creates a more bonding experience and therefore probably reduces the Coolidge Effect more than neo-taoism practices. This is why for those (myself) who have not been able to practice karazza on a more consistent basis to adopt other bonding behaviors (those practiced outside of bedroom) to minimize the Coolidge Effect. This is the challenge of monogamy, the challenge now as it has been the challenge since the beginning of time.

The obvious difficulty in karazza is not only foregoing orgasm but enjoying the a lovemaking experience that is highly slow and potentially boring, especially if the couple does not take (or have) the time to get to the half-hour/hour mark when things may begin to get ecstatic.

Also, I am unsure, given the variety of people in the world, that every one has the facility to achieve a karazza type practice. Historically, karazza has not been adopted by most people with perhaps only a handful of people being able to accomplish the habit. While this latter statement is an obvious fallacy, I use only to suggest the great difficulty in the practice for the average person, not to suggest the goodness of the practice.


I just want to affirm, that from my own experience, Taosist non-ejaculatory orgasm can be very depleting; maybe not as much as regular orgasm, but depleting nontheless. In other words, they initiate what we understand right now as dopamine disregulation.

I've been practicing non-ejaculation for almost 14 years, and it's very different from not orgasming. Unfortunately, I can't comment on Karezza and the Coolridge Effect, since I'm currently single.

Practicing being transorgasmic is difficult, but it's bringing back some deep pleasure and satisfaction into my life. It's a whole different level than Mantak Chia's work - my humble opinion.


Reading this article is

timely for me. A good reminder that sex without orgasm does not necessarily mean you are doing Karezza. Since the Coolidge effect for me is to want to dart out of the relationship asap which brings up lots of stress, aversion and less than desirable projections onto a mate (seeing features as major turn offs), it is imperative that I avoid getting even too close to orgasm. I am practicing, but my recent experience led to ejaculatory responses which even with the pressure spot technique to avoid the fluid loss, it still seems to produce the Coolidge effect. So, this makes me think that even getting too close to orgasm alone also does it, and, just produces edgy, uncomfortable feelings, especially if the real goal and intention is to not orgasm (duh! why am I going toward that in the first place then?!)
It is the alternative that my mind has yet to understand, which is how this non-doingness, effortless-effort of what ever you want to call it leads to where my mind thinks it wants to go, which is still to get turned on and heated up for orgasm, even if I know I am trying to avoid it.
I guess it just takes practice, and, some reassurance that even though it is going to seem really boring at first, and, I am not even too sure I can get an erection or maintain one with that mindset, I am still willing, and, also willing to just press together in a gentle, non-simulating way to see if perhaps even just that may have some benefits (like the exchange of bio-energy which after a while may bring peace).

Yes, karezza

can watching paint dry - at first. Smile

I think it does help not to focus on what you want out of sex (and how the experience isn't matching that), but just see it as a chance to nurture each other energetically. It seems to be like charging up a battery, and the biggest changes tend to be noticeable *outside* the bedroom first.

m78 Funny - Marnia ...


Funny - Marnia ... "watching paint dry..."

"Nurturing one another" -- that is the real intent of the practice. But, for some and maybe perhaps most, sex is about losing oneself, losing one's mind, going on the roller coaster only to be annilillated at the final turn.

"charging up a battery" -- thats a good analogy;

Can karezza bring us into alignment with craniosacral rhythms?

In craniosacral therapy lingo, there is this recognition of a phenomenon called "The Breath of Life". It is a very slow and very subtle and very deep tide in nature that moves at a 100 second cycle and which organizes life systems. Our bodies are made mostly of fluid, and there is a longitudinal fluctuation of fluid called the Long Tide that is another layer and "sleeve" of the Breath of Life as it expresses itself through our fluid body. Within this Long Tide is another, faster tide, called the Mid-tide. Our tissues, cells and nerves organize themselves in this Mid-tide frequency though the ever deeper and slower sleeves of the Long Tide and Breath of Life. Which means that the nervous system is encased in and regulated by slower and slower organizing forces and tides of nature.

Hang in there with me folks.

So, it turns out that this Mid-tide frequency of the Cranial Rhythmic Impulse, which is how the craniosacral fluid in the center of your spine pulses, is very sensitive to stress. My teacher told me that he has palpated people who live in nature and close to the land and they do not have the same Cranial Rhythmic Impulse that urban dwellers do. It seems that the high-stress environment of the urban landscape compresses the nervous system and causes the CRI to try to adapt by speeding up.

Here is an excerpt that explains what the CRI does: "The CRI represents the conditioned nature of the human system. It is a rhythm that is conditioned by genetics and experiental processes. It is the wave form of our experience, it is not a direct expression of the Long Tide, yet it is driven by these deeper forces. It is like the wave forms that ride on the deeper tides. This rhythm expresses the patterns of our unresolved experience. The quality and rate of this rhythm is an expression of the action of genes as they unfold, of the state of the central nervous system and its autonomic functions, and is further conditioned by the various forces and experiences we meet in life. The quality and state of the CRI is directly affected by the state of the autonomic nervous system. It is also strongly affected by unresolved shock states held in the system. Its rate of expression will change due to the forces of unresolved trauma and teh nature of the unresolved experiences held in the system." (Franklyn Sills, Craniosacral Biodynamics)

For whoever has read this far (hello Marnia), I would propose that what is actually happening in Karezza is that the lovers are dipping down to the Long Tide, the slower nourishing tides which are self-regulating and which affect the Mid-tide and overall functioning of the nervous system, calming it down. I would also propose that most people watching porn or having goal-oriented sex are caught up in the faster pulses of teh CRI, which is holding genetic trauma and unresolved shock states that are trying to be ejected from the system. The problem is that when the CRI level of stress becomes the tide that is identified with as reality, it becomes uncoupled with the slower tides, which emerge mostly through stillness, and which are ultimately nourishing, because they are the ground of our being.

According to this idea, karezza lovemaking affects the nervous system but operates from a system that is pre-nervous system. The tides that I described above are real and have been observed as different levels of embodiment as the embryo unfolds. There is a period of development that is part of the continuum of who we are and how we are still unfolding that is NOT nervous system. As Sills says, "perception is not dependent upon the presence of a fully formed nervous system."

Interestingly, the perceptive tool that craniosacral therapists use to help people to re-couple with these very slow tides is Stillness, the same principle that Marnia focuses on, and which the Dao De Jing also describes as the ultimate ground of reality:

"Great De and its features
Flow entirely from Dao
Dao objectified
is only intangible and illusive.
Intangible and illusive,
yet within it are images.
Illusive and intangible,
yet in it are forms.
Shadowy and obscure,
yet within it is essence.
Essence so real,
That within it is true potency."

and . . .

"Attain complete emptiness
Hold fast to stillness
The then thousand things stir about
I only watch for their return
Things grow and grow
But each returns to its root
Returning to its root is Stillness
This means returning to what is."

Entire post, and subsequent posts: