Our Beacon Forum

Darwin's Theory Of Evolution
By:Nawab Ahmad
Date: Friday, 23 April 2010, 1:54 pm

Re: Darwin's Theory Of Evolution-1
By:Nawab Ahmad
Date: Thursday, 22 April 2010, 6:43 pm
In Response To: Darwin's Theory Of Evolution (Arsalan Shaukat, ex-Muslim, UK )

Br Shaukat, AA!

You have produced a completely rhetorical Treatment against Islam, and have said near the end of your Discourse:

i) .. the evil Islamic ideology.
ii) Evolutionary theory can serve as a magnificent tool to challenge Islam.

That is: without disproving Quranic standpoints or without any conclusive counter evidence, you have slated Islam as well as you are asking Muslims to rise against our religion which we find "the only upright ideology" across the World. Being a scientist, you know very well that multiple theories can co-exist side by side to explain some phenomenon. And the different way of explaining the fact(s) in one theory, does not discredit the other theory. Rather to disprove a theory, one has to show unambiguously that the implicated theory fails to explain the Phenomenon or any of its crucial components. Explaining some observations or experience is the purpose of theorizing ..... not refuting the other theory that also explains the observations well.

Even then, Dr Shabbir Ahmad, the CEO of "ourbeacon", an Islamic website, has welcomed you, greeted with Salaam, and addressed you as "Dear Brother". Hope you will value his request of going with the proper references and interpretations.

Without discussion/debate with a Muslim group, you have already posted your write-up -- which is grounded on your sheer misunderstanding -- on an anti Islamic site. This information as well as your no-response after your first post, has frustrated Dr Shabbir Ahmad who was hoping to have a fruitful discussion with you. Anyway, I am ready to talk with you. And I request Dr Shabbir Ahmad just to moderate our discussion/debate, plus all other brothers and sisters to hold back -- so you do not feel that ten people are attacking you while you are alone. However, they can continue discussing among themselves as a few are engaged in currently.

The message of Islam is for each and every human of this world. That means, if any non-Muslim has a genuine question on Islam, he can ask the believers. But that objection, as well as the following discussion or debate, has to be lined up with the parameters of knowledge. Your personal understanding has no binding upon others, or others' opinion has no bearing on you ...... unless the Take is well supported by the principles of knowledge objectively.

"The evidence in support of theory of evolution is immense. Infact, the evidence is so vast that it makes it rather difficult from where to start and where to end."

I agree. And I would like to move in a systematic way, starting with the fundamental questions, considering one or two questions at a time only. Plus, I will be going all technical; ie no layman treatments nor any sidetracking.

i) First of all,
Organic Evolution, Geological Evolution or even The Big Bang Phenomenon, couldn't have happened if there had been no Matter [and Energy] out there. So please let us know, in light of The Evolution Theory, when and how the Matter was created in the first place. That is, who or what is the creator or Matter?

If you cannot prove that scientifically Matter has come out of the void, your anti-creation stance, Evolution By Itself, and your atheism, all will have no ground to stand on.

ii) Then,
Since you are claiming for the "truth value of the Evolution Theory" in your pursuit to negate "the truth value of the Quran", you have to answer some pertinent questions of the Quran too. This would be very unfair that you question the Quran unilaterally, and duck the Quranic questions on you.

I am putting the first question from the Quran here:
Can "Natural Processes" ever produce a book? If not, the Quran is not the product of Evolution. Right? Now we are left with two choices only. That is, either the Quran is the mindwork of human(s), or the mindwork of God. If this is of God, it has to have the signs of Divine Authorship all along. And if it is of human(s), it has to have the marks of human authorship. Please justify your position how the authorship of the Quran appears to be of human (since you are an atheist) in the face of its

Unique Literary Language,
Unique Structure (divided into surats and ayats. Plus, its
unique way of naming the surats),
Unique Sequence of Discourses within a surah,
Unique Contents (eg also includes the fundamental deep scientific
facts as well as the Corrections of the Bible),
Uniquely Easy For Memorizing word for word,
and the like?

Also, regarding language, how did Muhammad know 1400 years ago that Arabic Language would survive ever? Hebrew and Aramaic, you know, are not living (spoken) languages today. In light of the Quran, the Torah and the Gospel were for limited time period only; so they were not revealed in all-time surviving languages. What is your explanation, please?

Any object in this universe has to be
i) the product of Nature (or the Natural Evolution),
or ii) the product of some content of the universe,
or iii) the product of God.

From the characteristics of the Quran, please elucidate what kind of product is the Quran?

As we move forward, I will discuss or debate on each of your questions and assertions. And would not avoid a single one. Our discussion will be inclusive of, but not limited to, the assertions you have made in your first post, such as:

Darwin's Theory explains natural observations.
DT stripped man of its supposed ‘special place’
Over time, ‘speciation’ occurs.
ET has become an integral part of understanding reality.
There is vast amount of evidence that supports evolution.
Islam negates Evolutionary theory.
Nature of evolution can never reconcile with Islamic theology.
Islamists refute Evolution by fallacious arguments.
how do Islamists defend Islam’s theory of genesis in the light
of insurmountable evidence supporting Evolution?

Looking forward to hearing from you soon,
Nawab Ahmad

Messages In This Thread

Darwin's Theory Of Evolution
Nawab Ahmad -- Friday, 23 April 2010, 1:54 pm
Re: Darwin's Theory Of Evolution
Dr Shabbir -- Friday, 23 April 2010, 2:55 pm