When journalist Vanessa Grigoriadis set out to write a book about campus sexual assault, she expected to catalog "epic acts of good and evil." What she found, she said, was not nearly so neat.

Grigoriadis spent three years interviewing 120 university students, as well as college administrators and experts, wading deep into one of the country's most divisive and emotional debates for Blurred Lines: Rethinking Sex, Power, and Consent on Campus (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt). 

Grigoriadis, 43, spoke with USA TODAY's Alia E. Dastagir.

Q: What did your reporting reveal about the campus rape debate?

A: The rape debate is like a stalking horse for these much larger themes of gender and power and sex that are being negotiated right now on college campuses. And we're hearing about it as rape, because that's what makes headlines ... but you can't fix that problem until you fix social norms around how sex lives happen consensually. 

Q: You write that college is a different planet when it comes to sexual behavior. What drives that?

A: Colleges are totally masculine-dominated. ... Fraternities can have alcohol at their houses and have parties and no national sorority in America is allowed to have a party with alcohol. Weekends are dominated by football games or some sport that guys play. ... The bottom line is, when I was in college 20 plus years ago, guys bought the kegs and guys bought the drugs. And you know what? It's exactly the same today. 

Q: But something is changing?

A: What's happening now is these young women — Millennials reading Bustle, reading Cosmo, watching 13 Reasons Why, going to Wonder Woman — are participating in a pop feminist moment that's also a revolutionary moment in terms of political rhetoric. And it's feeding into an empowered feeling that nights that I as a Gen X person would have called a "bad night" are actually assault.

Q: What social norms are these women fighting?

A: Girls are living in a more sexualized culture than they were certainly 10 years ago. And they're watching porn. And they're putting up pinup pictures on Instagram, and they're sexting with guys that they haven't hooked up with yet. ... We need more honesty that there is a sexualized culture, that girls are participating in it, but that they deserve to be able to participate in it without being assaulted.

Q: You note that there’s a hesitation to link drinking to sexual assault, because no one wants to seem like they’re victim-blaming. Can we solve the problem of sexual assaults on campus without talking about the role alcohol plays?

A: No. The culture of binge drinking is an intrinsic part of social life on college campuses today. The probability of sexual assault while drinking in moderation seems minor. The most important thing for girls to know is that a girl who has had more than nine drinks is more vulnerable to predators. She should be armed with the knowledge that getting sloppy drunk — not just having a beer or two — is risky. This is common sense.

Q: You write in the book, "It's tempting to chant 'believe women' and simply leave it at that. But there's a mushy middle here." Are you concerned feminists may balk at that?

A: I am a feminist. I'm trying to be realistic and pragmatic. ... When you have two sides that are so extreme and that are not talking to each other you're just getting into a situation that is more and more and more polarized. 

Q: It seems you are simultaneously fascinated by and snarky about the way Millennial women are redefining this debate. Which feeling is more dominant?

A: I really admire young women who are resetting sexual boundaries. ... At the same time, I am a Gen X person who still grew up and had my formative experiences in the Sex and the City period where we emulated women who were sexually empowered and never would have called themselves a victim of anything. ... Interviewing girls who are much more interested in the Kesha/Lady Gaga icons of feminism now, the "I have been traumatized, guys have abused me, and I'm going to speak out about it and hold my power in that way" — that's pretty foreign to me.

Q: The sexual assault debate has been reignited under Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, who may scrap Obama's Title IX guidance instructing colleges to respond to allegations of sexual violence. Do you think these investigations belong on campus?

A: If they're not on campus, then we're going to be back where we started — cops who don't know how to deal with physically violent rapes and definitely don't know how to deal with a way more ambiguous case. ... They have to stay on campus.

Q: How do we do a better job of defining consent?

A: The way that universities have solved that conundrum is to say, "Let's have a 'yes' means 'yes' standard." You don't have to have a girl say "no" anymore to assault her. ... I think it makes perfect sense. I'm not saying it's going to fix every assault scenario. ... But there's definitely a group of guys for whom consent is blurry and they need to be taught to have sex in a way that is ethical, thoughtful and compassionate.

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