Soaring gun sales in Arizona

Planning for the worst

Gun-owners are on the defensive

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No households in Japan have guns, and it's one of the safest country in the world with low crime rate and law-abiding citizens. The privileges of freedom ought to be directed to a culture of self-restraint, rather than freedom to act in accordance to ones egotism, goofiness, fear, anger, and aggression. Then prompting the government to reigning things in, then in defiance, calling it tyrannical police-state or designating it as a restrictive government.

junius brutus

>> The liberals with their words and protest letters are responsible for the reductions in worldwide torture, the end of apartheid, the liberation of India from British rule, the end of Jim Crow laws, the end of child labor in the US and Europe, the establishment of worker’s rights and public education, the preservation of free speech in the US and the progress towards free speech in China, the erosion of communism in Vietnam, etc and the right to vote for women in all countries in which it is legal. <<

Rubbish. China is *today* censoring their internet because of the 20th anniversary of Tiananmen. So, beyond the offensive nature of giving 'liberals' the credit for progress that 20yr old Chinese kids *died* trying to achieve, you're wrong on the facts.


We all know that guns kill about 30,000 Americans every year.
Every 2 years, more Americans are killed by firearms than in the Vietnam War!
Every 5 years, more Americans are killed by firearms than World War 2 (our biggest conflict till date)!

Other interesting tidbits...

1) The gun-murder rate in America is more than 30 times that of England and Wales,

2) This simply means that guns are the preferred form of murder in the US. BUT... We find that the US has about 4 times the murder rate of Britain and
Canada. Both Britain and Canada are first world countries with similar law enforcement and legal systems unlike (say) Colombia which is a 3rd world country with non-existent law enforcement and legal systems

3) The murder statistics would be meaningless if Britain and Canada were inherently peaceful countries. When looking at assault statistics we see that the US has about the same level of assault rates as Britain and Canada

Therefore given the similarities between the 3 countries (studied) and the fact that gun control is the only significant difference between these countries, we can reasonably conclude that the lack of gun control has sharply increased the murder rate in the US

Those who keep guns may also want to know that if his beloved gun is fired at anyone, statistics show it will be on himself or one of his family members :)

Feline Birch

@ Jed for Justice

Have you visited the United States, Jed? Did you ever see a firearm in the hands of a civilian or gun violence? I've lived in the United States my entire life and I've never seen someone commit a serious crime or display a firearm in public.

Only 30 per cent of Americans have a passport? That's almost 100 million people, Jed. I read recently that 88 million Americans traveled abroad in 2006. I'm not sure I believe that, but if true that's a large group of travelers.

I believe you are right about Americans and worship. We still worship in the same percentage as the citizens of the Third World. And I believe that means we are with the majority of humanity on that score, Jed. But I'm ready to stand corrected if you believe me wrong.


I am agreeing with you. I was just pointing out that you probably conceded too much by noting the effectiveness of non-violence.


@ Prof,

I honestly don't know if they would have been effective or not. I do know though that if the mainstream non-violent tactics of MLK hadn't worked, then Malcolm X etc would have grown much more powerful.

Note I've been aruging the an armed populance prevents tryanny the whole time.


I hang out with some gun enthusiasts, but the responses to this article are reminders of why I avoid so many of them. Because the vast majority of them are disingenuous LIARS.

I own guns. I own a lot of guns. I bought my first one in college, joined the Marines, bought a bunch more, and am still buying them today.

Why? To protect my country from an inevitable slide to fascism? That is ridiculous, there is no way our 225 year old democracy is going to suddenly (or gradually) revert to fascism or suddenly suffer military takeover.

To protect myself from roving gangs of thugs? Yeah, because we have so many roving gangs of thugs cruising middle America, kicking down doors, just waiting for you to heroically stop them with your gun. Like that ever happens. I've lived in some of the worst areas of LA, and that has never even come close to happening. You are more likely to be killed by rampaging gangs of feral Beverly Hills Chihuahuas. You gun owners with your rich fantasy lives.

To defend my self from the invading (insert: commies, muslims, mexicans, red chinese, satanists, peronists, hawaiians, martians, lithuanians, santa monica hippies, gene simmons, etc?) There you go again with your wacky fantasy lives. Gun owner fantasies make Dungeons and Dragons kids look unimaginative. They can always identify some new "enemy" that somehow can invade and conquer- demographic impossibilities be damned.

No, you all know why you love owning guns. Unlike your more honest gun toting brethern, you are too cowardly to admit it (well, most Marines I know admit it, that’s why they joined the Marines, I'm talking more the chicken hawk types.) Simple. You like to blow stuff up. You like to make loud noises and watch things get destroyed. I love it. You love it. Heck, when I take my most bleeding heart anti-gun guy friends out to the desert to go shooting...they sheepishly admit they love it (even if they are loathe to say it.) When we're alone and being honest you admit it. When you're with your shooting buddies you admit it. I've seen that grin and that flash of excitement when your big ol' gun starts shooting a broken appliance into little pieces. Shooting stuff is FUN.

But then, as soon as an article like this appears, you suddenly have to invent 1000 ridiculous reasons to justify your desire to own guns. Basically, you project your adolescent "Deathwish" and "Red Dawn" fantasies and start making up all sorts of nonsense. Yeah, I had the "Red Dawn" fantasy in high school too...Wolverines!!!....but I don't pretend it might really happen. You even get so lame as to pull up charts and figures (usually lame and ridiculous) and instead of looking like regular dudes that just like to shoot stuff look like paranoid and delusional wack jobs.

So enough. Quit it. When people ask you why you need guns....say I LIKE THEM. THEY ARE FUN. Leave your tinfoil hat nonsense and your projected fantasies in your head. Quit the lies. You are never going to save anyone with your guns. You are not going to be the hero, and finally get laid because of your guns. You are not going to stop the evil democrats from taking over the government and turning us into a police state (serious, that one is just stupid.) You won't stop the coming muslim or Chinese invasion (serious, that one is even more stupid.) Your guns are not going to give you some shining moment to suddenly stop being a doofus and start being cool. Heck, if that singular 'cool' moment didn't happen in high school football for you, it will probably never happen, so give up the fantasy.

What guns will do is afford you a chance to hang out with some friends on some BLM land, out at a range, or at one of those full-auto places near Vegas, and have a fun old time. And if you're into it, you can go kill a deer or a duck or whatever wildlife gets you hot. If you really need to kill a person, get out of your dumb fantasy lives about stopping marauding gang bangers (because more likely your quivering jello ass will accidently shoot me,) and do like me and my friends did- join the Marines. But just stop the lies. Not only are they old and tired, but they are making those of us that just enjoy guns look like tinfoil hat nutjobs by association.


Do you really think MLK would have been effective without Malcolm X and a heavily armed (relative to today's standards) Black Southern population growing increasingly militant? Or the fear of said population serving as a Soviet 5th column?

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" - Mao Tse-Tung

Guns and knowledge prevent tyranny. There is a reason they didn't allow slaves to own guns or learn to read.


I'm not sure why the fear of a government going wild is irrational. We have plenty examples from the last centuary. Russia, Germany, China to name a few. All slaughtered millions mainly of their own citizens. And let's not forget Germany's was democractically elected.

Will that happen in America, probably not. But it's a lot less likely with an armed populace that's for sure.

Also, the chances of your home being robbed are certainly higher than I would like to take, especially if you live in the wrong part of town/country (usually the part with strict gun controls laws).

If you don't want to defend your family, that of course is your choice. But why do you think you have the right to prevent me from defending mine?

As for being dangerous, with a small amount of training firearms are no more dangerous than most things (and less than driving). Besides, the world is dangerous, that just means we should be catious, not try and remove all forms of danger.


Gun sales in the U.S. are being promoted by gun dealers who are fueling the racist paranoia which is widespread among the people who buy and collect guns even when they are unable to support their families. It's all being driven by the gun industry and has proved very profitable for them. Unfortunately it means even more wackos running around armed and dangerous in the U.S.


I have read some of the remarks supporting the right to possess firearms. I understand what is being said. I simply find it odd that so many people wish to own something as dangerous as handguns and rifles based on what I believe to be the irrational fear of a government gone wild, or the slim chance they will be set upon by ravenous thugs. I believe statistics show we have much more to fear from our relatives and friends than strangers. It seems wrongheaded and based more on romanticism than rationality.


@ nomanjic

How do you think the constituion and bill of rights came about??? We didn't talk our way into freedom, people fought and died for it with guns.

It's great that people like MLK and Gandi etc were able to accomlish what they did through non violent means. That should always be the first resort. But if non violenet means are ineffective what then?

Freedom isn't free. You are correct that most times freedoms are protected, through other means (especially here in America) but there is no guaruntee of that.

Recongnizing that the right to bear arms (and thus the right to self defense) is the backbone of liberty does not in anyway diminish other freedoms like freedom of speech.

Get your head out of the sand and stop looking at this as a left vs right thing. It's a freedom vs non freedom thing.

I want the right to protect myself AND freedom of speech etc. It's not one or the other.


The bill of rights is actually very anti-leftist nomajic. The bill of rights is an individualist document born of the enlightenment, leftists almost universally believe in collectivism, ie the rights of groups. Things like affirmative action, a right given to people of a specific skin color is a good leftist doctrine. Freedom of speech is not, and in fact in the world today the left is actively attacking freedom of speech with "hate speech" laws.

methinks you do not know what side you are on.


Large numbers of heavily armed, paranoid, self defence fantasists. How utterly terrifying for the remaining sane people in Arizona.

More guns only and ever means more people getting shot.


john schwartz wrote: "And thanks to our heavily armed population, we've been free for over two centuries. Not many countries can make that claim."

Sir, as woman and friend to many homosexuals and African Americans, I think you are confusing an autonomous state with a free populace.

Arms are (very) good for maintaining or expanding the power of a particular group or individual. Guns have absolutely no bias towards freedom or any particular agenda. They are a dangerous tool should only be employed with this understanding. I would go so far as to point out the elevation of the concept of right makes right into social policy is the very foundation of a fascist, totalitarian society.

The bill of rights and its many equivalents in many other less armed countries were created and are maintained by the labor of the thinkers and "Leftists" you deride.

With every Patriot Act, the left fights a campaign for the minds of the population.

With every unlawful search and seizure or prohibited KKK rally the ACLU holds fast on the principles of free speech and fights for the rights of the individual (that would be you) to his or her liberty.


To minimize the efforts of Gandhi, Cesar Chavez, Dr. King, Jesus Christ and the host of other liberal activists who have made possible your life as a free person, to support your desire to own a gun is morally reprehensible.

It is precisely because of the immense power of words, that freedom of speech is the first right to be challenged when a government begins to behave badly. This right is not removed in a fiery gun battle at high noon. The freedom wastes away like an unused muscle or is chipped away in quiet attacks on the margins of society.

Sir, the liberals hold the front line on these battles while right wing do-nothings sit at home drooling over their Green lawns, their SUVs and their Fox News. We routinely sacrifice our money, our careers and yes, occasionally our lives in defense of your right to spew nonsense on an online message board.

You’re welcome.


Did I miss something at the end? Guns in bars? If people kill people, then what do drunk people with guns do?


The job of the police is the catch bad guys AFTER they commit the crime. Being armed to protect yourself (and your family) has nothing to do with the police's job. Vigilante justice would only be if armed citizens were going after crooks after the crime.

Self Defense is not vigilantism, istead it's a basic human right without which none of the rest matter. After all, what good is freedom of speech or religion if you get raped or murdered?

Also Milo, if you don't think there isn't a constact attack on liberty you haven't been paying attention. The government is always trying to take more power for itself. Patriot act anyone? Or WoD?


James of Houston
I may well be grateful if such a situation you describe happens but like i posted below - what if you happen to fatally shoot me by mistake? Or worse; you fire back, unfortunately miss, and the perp is ticked off by your heroism and shoots you, me, as well as a few other innocents who may well have survived if we'd kept our heads down. I am not convinced by the argument that somehow armed people with guns would help in such situations unless you're a well trained military personnel that has seen some action. After all the damn deers and the targets don't shoot back! At least they didn't the last time I was at the shooting range in Baton Rouge.

Milo Minderbinder

Good post and the most compelling one for the pro-side so far. I do know some responsible gun owners with a RTC who I trust more than anything.
The idea of living in a society where the majority of people have direct (and easy) access to a gun designed to kill multiple people in a short amount of time is disturbing, no matter how you look at it.
I just can't argue with people who feel the Bill of Rights is physically under attack and needs to be guarded by armed civilians anymore. But I did appreciate your insight on this.



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