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Taxpayers Lose Another $118.5 Million As Next Obama Stimulus Pet Project Files For Bankruptcy

Tyler Durden's picture


Remember that one keyword that oddly enough never made it's way into the president's largely recycled SOTU address - "Solyndra"? It is about to make a double or nothing repeat appearance, now that Ener1, another company that was backed by Obama, this time a electric car battery-maker, has filed for bankruptcy. Net result: taxpayers lose $118.5 million. The irony is that while Solyndra may have been missing from the SOTU, Ener1 made an indirect appearance: "In three years, our partnership with the private sector has already positioned America to be the world’s leading manufacturer of high-tech batteries." Uh, no. Actually, the correct phrasing is: "...positioned America to be the world's leading manufacturer of insolvent, bloated subsidized entities that are proof central planning at any level does not work but we can keep doing the same idiocy over and over hoping the final result will actually be different eventually." We can't wait to find out just which of Obama's handlers was may have been responsible for this latest gross capital misallocation. In the meantime, the 1,700 jobs "created" with the fake creation of Ener1, have just been lost. Yet nothing, nothing, compares to the irony from the statement issued by the CEO when the company proudly received taxpayer funding on its merry way to insolvency: ""These government incentives will provide a powerful stimulus to a vital industry and help ensure that the batteries eventually powering millions of cars around the world carry the stamp 'Made in the USA'." Brilliant - and no, they are laughing with us, not at us.

From The Hill:









At the time, EnerDel said the grant would help the company double its production capacity and create 1,700 jobs. But the company has faced major financial problems in recent months.


Ener1’s decision to file for bankruptcy will likely draw the attention of House Republicans, who are investigating the bankruptcy of Solyndra, the solar panel maker that received a $535 million Energy Department loan guarantee in 2009.

We are extremely confident that the company's primary investors and lenders are also delighted to have just wiped out $120 million in costless equity value and to have complete control over the company at this point.

And some hilarious selections from the company's then proud announcement of procuring US taxpayer funding that as of today is no more:

The White House today announced that Indiana-based automotive lithium-ion battery maker EnerDel, Inc., will receive $118.5 million in federal grant funding under the stimulus package passed last spring. The funds will help double the company's U.S. production capacity, creating approximately 1,700 new jobs in the state. Word came in separate speeches by President Obama in Elkhart, Indiana, and Vice President Joe Biden in Detroit, Michigan.


EnerDel, the lithium-ion battery subsidiary of Ener1, Inc. (Nasdaq: HEV - News), is one of nine companies selected to receive funds for cell, battery and materials manufacturing grants in a broadly subscribed solicitation managed by the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). EnerDel received the full amount it requested. In all, 48 companies in the electric and hybrid vehicle sector received a total of $2.4 billion in awards today.


"This is about planting the roots of a critical industry firmly in American soil," said Ener1 Chairman and CEO Charles Gassenheimer. "The economic benefits associated with this government investment will stretch far beyond the battery industry. Carmakers in North America, foreign and domestic, are counting on advanced battery systems to power an entire new generation of electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles."


The grants will work together with the applied for long-term, low-interest loans under DOE's Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing program (ATVM), in unleashing private capital flows to companies in this sector. EnerDel is in advanced stages of discussions with DOE regarding its ATVM application.


"These government incentives will provide a powerful stimulus to a vital industry and help ensure that the batteries eventually powering millions of cars around the world carry the stamp 'Made in the USA,' Gassenheimer said. [ZH: too fucking rich]


EnerDel is the first and so far only company in the industry to have built facilities in the United States to produce automotive lithium-ion batteries on a commercial scale, and recently unveiled one of the most advanced battery cell production lines in the world at its plant in Indiana. The company also recently announced partnership projects with Volvo and Nissan, as well as with plug-in and electric vehicle makers Fisker and Think Global.


"We are in a race today that will decide who will make the technology to power future generations of fuel-efficient vehicles around the world," said EnerDel CEO Ulrik Grape. "Korea, Japan and China are doing everything they can to win it, but with these new resources, the Obama administration is helping America's best, most innovative players move ahead of the pack."


"Economic growth is not a Democratic or Republican issue. This effort has been a model of bi-partisan cooperation by Senators Richard Lugar and Evan Bayh, and by Governor Mitch Daniels," Grape said. "Their support has been tremendously important."


The funds will help EnerDel in mass producing a high-quality automotive product with a wide range of engineering capabilities for multiple automotive requirements, including high-speed, automated production lines for cell electrode manufacturing, and lean-manufacturing techniques for battery assembly.

Good work US taxpayer - through your selfless loss of money you have managed to splatter yet another egg of infinite humiliation on the face of the world's most incompetent central planning administration, which would make even Stalin green with envy.

And, heeeeeere's Joe Biden. One wonders if his favorite advisors Jon Corzine was responsible for this brilliant investment idea.

At least the propaganda video has dramatic music. How much did that cost taxpayers?

And here is the now former Board of Directors. To our huge surprise the company is headed by former GM execs, with the non-exec chairman having worked at not one but two bankrupt companies including Remy. Well, make that 3.

Thomas J. Snyder
Non-Executive Chairman of the Board

With an in-depth background in both the automotive industry and the energy sector, Thomas J. Snyder brings a wealth of pertinent experience to the board of Ener1, chairing the Nominating and Corporate Governance committee. He currently serves as the President of Ivy Tech Community College of Indiana, a leading midwestern educational institution with an enrollment of more than 100,000 students. Prior to that, he served as the President and Chief Executive Officer of Remy International in Anderson, Indiana, and most recently as the Chairman of the Flagship Energy Systems Center (FESC) in Anderson. FESC is Indiana's first energy-focused center of excellence working on leading technologies, including hybrid systems, lithium-ion batteries, solid oxide fuel cells and alternative fuels.

Following a distinguished career at General Motors, Mr. Snyder spent 11 years with Delco Remy International, where he established a new business model and diversified the company from a captive General Motors supplier to a global leader in truck, off road and aftermarket products, increasing the company sales from $500 million to over $1.2 billion and worldwide employment from 1,500 to 6,000. While at Delco Remy, Mr. Snyder also led their management buyout from General Motors in 1994.

Mr. Snyder graduated from Kettering University, formerly General Motors Institute, in 1967, with a degree in Mechanical Engineering and also holds an MBA from Indiana University. He is a member of the Executive Committee of the Indiana State Chamber of Commerce, a member of the Executive Council of the Saint Theodore Guerin High School in Noblesville, a Board member of the Paramount Theatre restoration in Anderson, Indiana and a past member of the prestigious World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

Kenneth R. Baker

Kenneth R. Baker is a long-time automotive industry executive with a focus on the development of alternative energy. Mr. Baker has most recently served as President, Chief Executive Officer and member of the Board of Trustees of the Altarum Institute, a leading nonprofit research organization recognized for advanced informatics/decision support applied to the areas of national defense, healthcare, homeland security and the environment. Previously, he served as the Vice Chairman and Chief Operating Officer of Energy Conversion Devices.

Mr. Baker also served as an executive at General Motors for more than 30 years until his retirement in 1999, after which his achievements included serving as Vice President of Global Research and Development and as Program Manager of GM Electric Vehicles. He was also the first Chairman of the United States Advanced Battery Consortium, the public/private partnership that has partially funded EnerDel's lithium-ion battery development.

In addition to his membership on Ener1’s Board and Chair of the Compensation committee, he currently serves in the following capacities: member of the Board of Directors and the audit and compensation committees of Millennium Cell, Inc.; member of the Board of Directors and the audit committee of AeroVironment, Inc.; serves on the Board of Directors of the National Coalition for Advanced Manufacturing; serves on the Board of Governors of Cranbrook Science Institute; and serves on the Board of Trustees of the Center for Automotive Research. Mr. Baker graduated with a BS in Mechanical Engineering from Clarkson University.

Elliot Fuhr

As a Senior Managing Director at FTI Consulting, Inc., Elliot Fuhr specializes in assisting senior management and boards of directors in the areas of performance improvement, financial and operational restructuring, mergers and acquisitions, divestitures, business planning and rapid implementation projects. His broad industry experience includes engagements with automotive, apparel, retail, technology, manufacturing, services, chemical, and oil and gas companies. Elliot has led or is leading several FTI firm-wide initiatives, including Business Quality, Learning and Education, Business Performance Improvement and Key Client programs. He has more than 24 years of experience in consulting and restructuring businesses and was previously a partner at PricewaterhouseCoopers, LLC in the Business Recovery Services division. In addition, he has held several chemical engineering positions at Exxon.

Wilber James

As an energy entrepreneur for more than three decades, Mr. James pioneered the unregulated marketing and trading of crude oil and petroleum products, natural gas, and electricity as chairman and CEO of Citizens Corporation. Building on that success, he expanded into oil exploration and energy conservation. He created Citizens Lehman Power, a joint venture between Lehman Brothers and Citizens that was the nation’s first electricity trading and asset acquisition/restructuring company and successfully sold it to The Energy Group Plc.

Prior to co-founding RockPort Capital Partners in 2000, where he currently serves as the managing general partner, Mr. James was non-executive chairman of Citizens Power and a member of the executive committee of Peabody Energy, and was instrumental in the LBO of Peabody and Citizens from The Energy Group in 1998. Mr. James currently serves on the board of directors of Peabody Energy Corporation and MicroSeismic, Inc.

He is co-founder and member of the advisory board of the Center for Regenerative Medicine at Massachusetts General Hospital, and co-founder and member of the Defense Venture Catalyst Initiative. Mr. James is an alumnus and member of the advisory board of the National Peace Corps Association (Kenya) and also serves as director and former acting chairman of the African Wildlife Foundation, trustee of the Cape Ann Museum, and governor of the Colby College Museum. Mr. James is a graduate of Colorado College with a bachelor’s degree in history.

Greg Kasagawa

With nearly 30 years of experience in the fields of aerospace, defense, information technology, electronics and Asian business management, Mr. Kasagawa has extensive experience in the area of new product development and marketing strategies for emerging markets.

Mr. Kasagawa currently serves as chief operating officer of the aerospace and industrial systems division of ITOCHU Corporation. He leads a 1,000-person business unit that provides aerospace and defense solutions to the Japanese government and industrial customers, as well as machinery and equipment to industrial customers around the world.

Since joining ITOCHU Corporation in 1981, Mr. Kasagawa has held various management positions primarily in the aerospace and defense segment, including 10 years of assignments in the United States. During his tenure at ITOCHU, he has served three years in his current role and four years as general manager of the aerospace department.

Mr. Kasagawa graduated from the University of Tokyo with a degree in engineering with an emphasis in naval architecture and holds a master’s degree in business administration from Cornell University. He has served on the board of directors of Ishikawa Seisakusho, Ltd., a Japanese machinery and defense equipment manufacturer. He has also been a member of the advisory committee of Satellite Positioning and Application Center of Japan since 2007.

Nora Brownell

Nora Brownell was the founding partner of ESPY Energy Solutions, LLC, a woman-owned independent energy consulting company, which provides strategic planning, marketing, business, regulatory and technical expertise to energy utilities, energy equipment manufacturing and supplying companies and financial institutions evaluating investments in the energy sector. Prior to founding ESPY in 2009,
Ms. Brownell spent three years as the sole proprietor of BC Consulting, an energy consulting company.

Ms. Brownell served for five years as a commissioner of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. As commissioner, she was an advocate for the development of regional transmission organizations, markets for wholesale power and national energy infrastructure development. Prior to her appointment to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, Ms. Brownell served one year as president of the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners and five years as commissioner of the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission. From 1992 through 1996, she served as the senior vice president for Meridian Bancorp, Inc.’s corporate affairs unit.

Ms. Brownell is a visiting scholar at Vermont Law School and a guest lecturer at the University of Idaho. She has also previously lectured at New York University Law School. She is a member of the board of directors of Oncor, Inc., Comverge, Inc., and Spectra Energy Partners. Ms. Brownell also serves as an emeritus member of the GridWise Architecture Council and serves on the advisory board of Starwood Energy Fund. Ms. Brownell attended Syracuse University.


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Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:05 | 2100164 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Larry Summers Memo (recently uncovered - fact, not fiction), which, among other things, unveils Obama's agenda to ply 'green industry' with as much low interest loans as possible:


The Summers Memo


I am submitting my request for a grant for my Unicorn Farm Clean Energy Project, whereby unicorns are bred and fed pixie dust, resulting in incredibly high levels of methane gas, which is captured at the point of emission (i.e. anal orifice) by elves (thus preventing the methane from escaping and damaging the ozone layer) using rubber tubing, with such gas being piped to huge underground storage tanks.


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:08 | 2100234 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



So obviously Buffett was not an investor.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:10 | 2100245 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Buffett politely declined, saying that he was late for his bubble bath/Bank of America special warrants investment brainstorming session.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:18 | 2100268 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I saw so much diversity in that could the company have failed with all that strength?

This really is Grifter Nation anymore...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:25 | 2100304 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Atlas Shrugged meets Trading Places.  Who's been putting out Kools on my carpet?

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:26 | 2100536 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

That's serious lol stuff!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 17:05 | 2100825 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Companies like ENER have been soaking the government for money to make first magic batteries, then hydrogen fuel cells, now solar wafers, for decades now-maybe 50yrs- and have to yet to make one cent profit.

I have to LOL quite a bit, the POS is up 30% today, I guess thanks to the recent state of the union performance.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 17:22 | 2100885 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

It took me 6 months to teach the chubby Hamster to yell "row!," and that's when I said screw this noise; I'm going into the Unicorn-Methane Clean Energy business.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 23:43 | 2101634 Blankman
Blankman's picture

I tried to find a decent link with exec salaries this is the closest I got:


this is better:


Looks like getting a govt loan means you can pay yourself exorbitantly with that govt loan.  Hmm...  Dear President O i need a 1 billion dollar loan to finance a new energy replacement for fossil fuels.  It is not proven but I am positive it will work.  


PS - Please don't limit my compensation package though govt regulations on the loan and I will contribute heavily to your campaign with these funds.  How does 1 mill sound.


Yours truly,


Dewey, Cheatem and Howe

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 00:26 | 2101686 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"The purpose of a System is what it does."  Looks like you've figured out what it's doing...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:29 | 2100319 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



...the world's biggest and most incompetent central planning administration...


Henry Ford is rolling over in his grave.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:32 | 2100341 Manthong
Manthong's picture

My green project is a biotech hybrid.

I want to surgically implant wire coils in every taxpayer’s rectum with an attached electrical cord that can be plugged into the grid.

The other part involves condoms with magnets embedded in little bumps that will be bought by the government and distributed to politicians, lobbyists and government employees.

Phase two is an undersea power transmission cable to China to export the quads of terawatts of surplus electricity that will be generated.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:38 | 2100358 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



I agree with Trav.  If we were a nation of white people, we wouldn't be struggling so much.  

<heel stomp>


Ron Paul 2012

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:49 | 2100414 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I told you guys but you didn't listen! If the lesser of two evils McCain had been elected, we would have only lost $117 million on this project. Fools!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:22 | 2100516 trav7777
trav7777's picture

now that you mention it, the almost all-white nations are doing pretty much better than anyone else...their biggest threat seems to be from misguided policies to import africans.  Surely, Sweden's prosperity was built on slavery, right?

The white states in the US do well, the white cities, even fucking PITTSBURGH, industrial central, are doing great.  Meanwhile, black cities, even if they are the capital, are in a constant fight to avoid having to be taken over due to incessant corruption and decay.  And they have astronomical crime rates that EVERYONE flees.

White schools still graduate high percentages of students and don't need metal detectors and razor wire.

Detroit 100 years ago was 90% was the Paris of the West.  Just LOOK at the architectural marvels there.  Now, it is 90% black.  And it is destroyed.  Cabrini Green was a modern marvel when it was constructed as well.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:21 | 2100711 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



.....the almost all-white nations are doing pretty much better than anyone else....

What the fuck are you talking about?  By all-white nations, I'm assuming you're referring to Europe and America, rather than African and Asian countries.  Both Europe and America would have totally collapsed had both not cheated by printing more money. Your beloved Iceland went bankrupt, and there's not a nigger in sight. The Soviet Union is all white and it imploded on itself a few decades back and it still sucks.  ZeroHedge has posted articles that Canada is on the verge of collapse, too.  

If you're marveling at the Scandinavian countries like Norway, I would argue that it's not too difficult to manage a country with a population less than Indiana that also happens to be one of the world's largest oil producers. How difficult is that?   

 Some of your racist and bigoted shit makes sense.  Other stuff is just nonsense.   

Acclinis falsis animus mellora recusat

Max Fischer

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 20:50 | 2101379 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Iceland's doing just fine. They told the money changers to fuck off. Nobody's starving. 

How about finland and Sweden? No oil and they're doing fine

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 23:57 | 2101652 Blankman
Blankman's picture

Somewhat off subject MAx but God bless Indiana they are in the process of becoming a "right to work state".  Ahhh... I love to see the unions in decline.  I apologize but that is about the only polarizing subject in my life.  


Union Salaries - "Sure" they are looking out for the little guy

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:28 | 2100719 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

BTW - the white guys exported all the jobs to China and India. The yellow/brown guys are thanking you lots right now.

Oh yeah, and you know how the US is dependent on foreign oil? Another bunch of brown dudes are thanking you for that!

Oh yeah, and also, them brown illegal immigrants? Yeah, white dudes happily use them in construction, meatpacking, agriculture, service industries etc.

And the Israelis thank the white dudes for funnelling money to them!

In fact, it sounds like you white dudes are your own worst enemy.

Dude, seriously. The rebuttal wrote itself the minute you clicked the mouse button.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:39 | 2100375 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Another great example of why government should have no decision in handling money.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:09 | 2100239 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Reminds me of Bruce's stories on the "bank" of the Treasury. I believe he found the long term 1% loans to Solyndra. Probably find HEVs name along side Solyndra.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:14 | 2100263 sitenine
sitenine's picture

This is what happens when you make emotional investments.
Sure, it feels good, but it is economically stupid .
Western society is drowning in its own political correctness.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:19 | 2100275 trav7777
trav7777's picture

PC isn't western.  PC is a meme pushed by marxists and media and racial agitation groups...the primary actors in these just so happen to not be "western"

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:52 | 2100411 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

This is what happens when you have an Idiot in the whitehouse with a bunch of hopey-changey, global warming, keynesian fuktards that don't know anything about the economy and/or capital markets surrounding him as his "Administration".  this is the kind of shite that just drives me absolutely up a fuking wall.  Any fool could have told you that alternative energy is not economical and that once the collapse happened, all of it could be shorted to zero.  Experience in the markets and with the business cycle makes this completely fuking obvious.  We have seen this before. 

BTW, you can still short FSLR..........

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:12 | 2100685 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

This is what happens when you elect a "community organizer" (aka shake-down artist) who is more familiar with the writings of Marx and Alinsky, and the racist ideology of Jeremiah Wright, than the Founding Fathers.

It's no accident what is happening; these people aren't just incompetent, they are venal also.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:23 | 2100285 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Are there no CEO's with half a brain? A quarter of the work and ten times pay in the financials, and if you fucked that up, you go into politics.

Rockefucker preferred "40,000 workers over 40,000 thinkers". For shit and giggles, where are there at least a couple thinkers, outside zero hedge? The plan must be to mentally torture us and turn us into zombies.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:32 | 2100338 Innocent Bystander
Innocent Bystander's picture

$119 MM of loses accrued to the taxpayer.. No big deal.. Has no impact on the currency of the clique

I get to steal your wealth and and distribute to keep the farce going.. As long as it is no skin off my nose

Hence my earlier point

Debt ceiling? doesn’t matter.

We have been on a dual currency system for some time, 16T or 16Q whatever it takes to keep the ... as long it does not dilute the wealth of the clique


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:32 | 2100740 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

OH, I see the plan.  The Unicorn horms, vary rare, are going to make a ton of money.. 

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:51 | 2100795 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Sorry Sunny, the 'Unigas' name is already taken...  And I'm pretty sure the FDA has outlawed Pixie Dust or was it Pixie Straws?

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 22:04 | 2101497 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

These companies are falling fast and faster.  In a few weeks we'll probably hear about another one.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:53 | 2100165 Gubbmint Cheese
Gubbmint Cheese's picture

Can I be Obama's pet? All I'd want is say $20mill... :)

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:02 | 2100217 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Check out your handle there Cheesy. You already are his #1 pet. You gotsta go getz paid.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:18 | 2100270 kito
kito's picture

much better to be the pentagon's pet. how much did the tax payers lose when the army corp of engineers failed to maintain the levees prior to katrina? 

or, how about boeing being awarded 3.5 billion for continued work on a missle defense system that so far is not accurate enough take out a flying duck.........

or the 70 catastrophic mishaps air force drone mishaps in the past 10 years at 2-3 million a piece?


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:44 | 2100602 We need Geronimo
We need Geronimo's picture

What?  You don't like the ROI of Afganistan?

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:59 | 2100646 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

You can't have Total Spectrum Dominance, kito, without spreadin' a little cash around! How will we ever know if an anti-matter-powered death ray (or even better, fifty! yeeeeehaaaww!!!) orbiting the Earth is even possible if we don't spend a few trillion or so in R&D? Gosh, it sounds like you want our fightin' boys headin' into battle against those brown-skinned evil-doers with nuthin' more'n pointy sticks and some Hershey bars. Now what do you suppose the odds are of takin' over the world with pointy sticks and Hershey bars, kito? Not very fuckin' good, I'll tell ya that right now, my friend. Think about that.


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:53 | 2100168 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Something Bitchez!!!

Oh, yeah.  Batteries Bitchez!!!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:09 | 2100210 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Assuming it wasn't a complete scam from the get-go, does anybody actually know anything about the company, the situation, the circumstances?

I'm having a hard time turning any real news other than the BK story.


Asian Competition

Smaller companies such as Ener1, which had 469 employees at the end of 2010 according to data compiled by Bloomberg, entered the battery market late against established competitors, said Shu Sun, an analyst at Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

“The electric battery market at the moment is a highly competitive one,” Sun, based in London, said in an interview. “It will be dominated by Japanese and South Korean players that have ramped up volume significantly and have secured more partners and customers. Smaller players like Ener1 will struggle in such a competitive market.”

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 18:30 | 2101057 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Tother day came across Li-on 12v 325amp batteries, read the specs, sounded great....rang the local Awstralian agent. A mere $6000.00 per each.

He sounded puzzled when I said gold was cheaper....Thank god for Lifeline.....

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:54 | 2100171 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Can't they just raise their debt ceiling? This seems unnecessary.

Just sayin'

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:54 | 2100174 Scribbles
Scribbles's picture

Hey, we'll get it right sooner or later!

(truck backs into loading dock at Federal Reserve) 

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:54 | 2100176 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Looks like green Sumthin needs a jump start.


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:55 | 2100181 Greater Fool
Greater Fool's picture

I am tempted to apply for federal funding of my skittle-pooping unicorn ranch.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:01 | 2100203 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Doesn't sound very 'green'. Request DENIED!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:25 | 2100305 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



They're green skittles.



Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:38 | 2100366 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

Green Skittles from their Green Shutes? Request granted. See the Pay Master.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:01 | 2100206 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

If they only produce "green" one's I think you've got a winner!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:04 | 2100221 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Donate heavy to the Obama campaign, and the funding will come...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:00 | 2100441 Dr.Vannostrand
Dr.Vannostrand's picture

Screw it, I'm applying for funding.

AIR CONDITIONED UNDERWEAR - heat from the undercarriage powers a low profile condenser motor that circulates coolant around the balls and keeps you cool. Eliminates need for having the A/C running all summer, hence saves energy, and its green (or brown)!

Hit me up Hopey, I'm sure DHS has my info...On 2nd thought, I might run this one by Mittens (magic underwear and all).

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:57 | 2100187 kralizec
kralizec's picture

And it all cycles back into Obama's pockets via campaign donations...who cares if the enterprise is a complete flop that pisses most taxpayers funds away, think big picture man!

@#&% SCoaMF &#$% pile of steaming $#@%!!!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:24 | 2100299 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

That's also the Democrat Party-Labor Union symbiosis, in a nutshell.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:26 | 2100535 trav7777
trav7777's picture

not just them but the entire immigration policy of importing democrat voters to the just recycles more money into particular hands.

NOTHING is better for wealth stratification than socialism conducted by people who are dishonest parasites.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:58 | 2100188 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Dear Mr ObaMao, can I haz $120 million for my new energy company? It collects high energy unicorn farts.


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:26 | 2100310 Convolved Man
Convolved Man's picture

I have received DARPA funding for a unicorn fart liquefaction plant. Now all we need is administration approval for a pipeline from your unicorn ranch to the facility.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:59 | 2100197 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Green.  The color of envy, and now the color of fraud!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:06 | 2100225 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Green means they wantz my moneie$.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 13:59 | 2100198 greyghost
greyghost's picture

just another jew boy sucking off the taxpayers tits.  gassenheimer...makes me fill bloated just by his name

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:00 | 2100201 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Absolutely disgusting.  We have insane amounts of debt... so Obama takes out a loan against the taxpayers of this country and gives away MILLIONS of dollars to these companies who blow through the cash and file bankruptcy.  Taxpayers get screwed, workers get screwed, and the investors get screwed.

It's a tri-fuck-ta destruction of wealth.

Those bankruptcy court judges should just say "no".  Don't let them restructure, let them simply close the doors so we can get this poison out of our system.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:00 | 2100202 drink or die
drink or die's picture

Sure, 1700 jobs lost, but how many jobs were saved?

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:02 | 2100218 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

Just the ones for converting the lead from batteries into bullets...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:10 | 2100241 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Govt. bureaucracy jobz related to promoting green technologie$. ;-D 



Edit: Is the printing press a green technolo-g (as in g note, I do think so).

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:20 | 2100279 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Don'tcha know that bankruptcy law is now a "green" job? /sarc.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:02 | 2100211 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

USA!  USA!!  USA!!!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:11 | 2100251 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

FUCK YEAH my good sir!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:34 | 2100744 MayerRothschild
Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:02 | 2100213 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

And our government continues a fantastic job of being the worst investor in the history of forever.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:02 | 2100214 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

$118 million $$$?

so what's the bad news?

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:07 | 2100227 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

New electric charging stations opening up in a city near you:

This Coloumb company or whatever was given millions also from Obama's Green Dream money tap.  They are an Indian company.

That should really help us here domestically, yeah... good times.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:24 | 2100303 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Gee, its comforting to know that an Indian company will be installing electirc charging stations, since most of their wiring looks like a hairball that was coughed up by a cat.

Note to self: Do not go near one of these charging stations in a thunderstorm.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 00:38 | 2101696 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Yikes! (a technical term, known to Electircal Engineers everywhere!) :>D

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:43 | 2100362 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture


in 1979, i went to check out a shop that was making electric cars in sanJose
the place is full of car batteries, which the guy was reconditioning and then putting banks of them in the vehicle~~also recycled, of course
the guy shows me a hatchback w/ the batteries midships so you could still use the back at the grocery or for your golf clubs (he sez) and sit in the front with a child, perhaps...

so i asked him: what kind of a mill has she got?
well, she's got a rolls royce electric motor that they use to start jet engines on the airliners (also recycled, and he'll warranty it, too!)
fast, eh?
how much?
you know, i once had a hydrogen explosion by my boat battery when i lit a...cigarette. is this thing vented?
would you consider $2500?

i told him that a gas Pinto was dangerous enough, but he should name this fuker "The Hydrogen Bomb"
it was pretty cute though

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:44 | 2100397 RopeADope
RopeADope's picture

Actually, if you look at it sideways it does help us here domestically. Most Indian engineers are educated here in the United States. By providing jobs for them back in their own country the U.S. administration is reducing the salary competition for U.S. born engineers who pay more in taxes than their foreign born counteparts. The hit on domestic corporate tax revenue due to increased labor cost is negligable as we all know corporations pay little to no taxes anyways.


I imagine the ROI is marginally positive but for government that is actually impressive.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:07 | 2100228 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

To answer your rhetorical question, $118.5 million, and another lodestone for our president, Barry Soetoro.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:07 | 2100230 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

That music is scary!  It's almost like listening to a Disney movie.  We we we we we we. 

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:08 | 2100235 Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

Aaaaaaaaaaaand, its gone!  Poof!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:16 | 2100266 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Heck, hardly left a carbon foot print...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 19:28 | 2101192 Jena
Jena's picture

Kinda smells funny, though...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:09 | 2100238 Catullus
Catullus's picture

We're they selling below their COGS too? I thought that was the standard for treasury "investing" in this bullshit.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:09 | 2100242 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Our firm did the underwriting for a solar project that was guaranteed 800k from Obama last year during the green give-away. The borrower has yet to receive the $$$ as he is requested to jump through hoop after hoop. The facility can cover the debt 1 to 1 without the grant, but borrower needs the cash to cover unforeseen expenses etc..... It's just a big fuckin' mess. Anything that can be infused by the govt. takes forever if at all and some projects, believe it or not, are worthy. Solyndra was a complete FAIL as seems this ENER1 project. 

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:18 | 2100271 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

I'm sure a pledge to contribute some portion of the grant to O's campaign will move things along.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:24 | 2100286 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

Not sure where you're at, in CA a number of these projects were blindsided by changes to the rate the utility pays for consumers who sell into the grid. Most of these projects are government or municipal, large scale projects which were built to be revenue neutral but are now running the redk. We also bought a solar system, and I kick myself for not overbuilding by at least 10%. The problem is the rather wide bid and ask for consumer electricity. Consumers groups complained that the utilities were subsidizing solar projects (duh, did you want you local government to save money and not raise your rates?)

A few years ago we had a candidate for mayor who wanted to float enough bonds to make San Diego energy self sufficent. It was a beautiful idea of how to use muni bonds to defer energy costs for private consumers and industry. The guy who won is more interested in a new sports stadium for our NFL franchise. That's the real problem in a nutshell.

My thought is the electric car is huge fraud, a liberal fantasy. These massive solar projects are at least designed to take advantage of long term interest rates and the current bond market. I've seen a lot of corporate welfare that doesnt' pass the smell test, but our leadership prefers to raise the tax base, rather than lower it, which is what using bonds to fund energy savings would do.

If the President has two brain cells he could use one of them to promote Natgas, and he would still have one to figure out how to get reelected. It will clearly have to wait for the next guy to figure this stuff out.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:39 | 2100368 Catullus
Catullus's picture

The consumers groups are full of shit. They're complaining really that these companies are paying less capacity because they're shaving their peaks. Yeah, no shit. But because California's capacity market is so broken, the plant costs got socialized into the grid. They shoul have completed deregulated the wholesale and retail sides and the trading shops would have been left holding the bag on the overbought capacity.

All retailers on the east coast have a behind the meter and bandwidth provisions in the contract for solar lowering captags.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:45 | 2100396 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

The Volt I drive every day - charged off the wholly owned by me solar system for free, seems like neither a fraud nor a fantasy.  Most of the entire system was built in north america, creating jobs here.  YMMV, but I'm driving with no cost for gasoline OR electricity, since I didn't wait around for the government to do it for me, like an entitlement addled idiot - I've been off the grid since '79 and it's paid for itself a number of times over.

Yeah, it was an expensive car.  For this level of luxury and sportiness, it's not out of line, actually.  It's not a Cruze for twice the price, it's a BMW for half the price.

No counting the free fuel.


The liberals might have an electric car fantasy, I wouldn't know.  The Volt was launched under Bush.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:04 | 2100466 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

Your not free yet.

Your next step is to get off the Government Motors grid.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:37 | 2100510 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Well, let's carry the "your (sic) not free yet" sovereign man bs to it's logical conclusion with a question:  "Is he supposed to drive a horse?"

Of course then you would accuse him of of being dependent on Government Horse because at one time it might have been wild, roaming and grazing on public lands.

My pre-2009 Trek touring bike was actually made in the USA.  I'm dead certain at sometime in its history Trek got a fed or state tax break, subsidy etc...So I suppose I'm dependent on Government Bike?

Stop re-enforcing the mythical sovereign man douchebag meme.  If it weren't so pathetic, it would be funny.

...unless you plan on living in a cave.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:40 | 2100594 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

I was hoping he would get a non-taxpayer subsidized car like a ....uh, maybe there isn't one. He could build his own out of genuine free range scrap!

OT- I bet your Trek has plenty of non-US components on it. I know my Cannondale, with its "Made in USA" sticker, does.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:53 | 2100634 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Sadly, there is no non subsidized car, but isn't it still better for me to get some of my tax money back than give it in blood in some desert somewhere?  I mean, if it's there and I don't take it, someone less deserving will.  I may not approve of the subsidy myself, but heck if its there - you're just dumb not to get it because you're paying for it yourself too. 

And yes, quite a lot of the car is made by Bosch - which is why it drives like a beemer - same parts from the same factory!  So?  Almost nothing is pure anything anymore, that's globalization.

I did have some fun with a Chinese go kart that I modded to be road worthy and which gets 200 mpg or thereabouts.  But that's all non-us, at least until I mod it with a Johnson Controls battery and the P-51 motor/generator from WWII surplus...which I haven't gotten around to yet. is the kart stuff.  I actually got a sticker on this and forced them to waive the junk about crash testing so I could drive this on the roads.  It's a lot of fun in good weather, but not real comfortable.


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:00 | 2100649 flattrader
flattrader's picture

I think you're right in that there likely is NOT a non-taxpayer subsidized car.

When you come up with a free range vehicle scrap design from non-taxpayer subsidized auto parts let me know.  It will at best be some pre-1960 monstrosity that would never pass an emissions test.

Well, at least my Trek touring was "assembled" in the USA.  Trek moved that part of the operation to Taiwan.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:07 | 2100671 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

natural gas is about half the price of gasoline, and adapters kits are affordable for just about any fossil fuel driven engine. and home sized natural gas compressors are available. most electric car users are on the grid, and that depends on coal probably and half the energy put in the grid is lost. at the end of the day what do you do with the battery your Volt runs on?

the common complaint about natgas cars is the size of the tank, but when you compare cruising range with electric i think the comparisons are more equitable. i don't think it would take much to change the huge propane tank at the Chevron where i go to Natgas. problem is demand would take off faster than the infrastructure, i think the pols all know this, but very quietly all the public transports, school, trash pickup, country transit, have switched to natgas, but so far the consumer has been cut out of the deal. and public transport is never going electric is it? the personal car is a huge part of american mythology, and that's tough to turn around.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:10 | 2100243 TomTraubert
TomTraubert's picture

I'm shocked they couldn't find a way to linger on for awhile and perhaps suck up another round of taxpayer funding.  Only $118 million, almost feels like we got off cheap.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:10 | 2100244 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Central economic planning ftw, bitchez

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:11 | 2100247 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Well, I've never worked much

In fact, I've been poor all my life

All I guess I really own is ten kids and a wife

This house is a lived in mine

But it's really a shack

But I always managed somehow

To drive me a brand new Cadillac

Backdoor steps

They done fell plum down

Front screen door's off and laying

Somewhere out there on the ground

Wind just now whupped another piece

Of that old tar roofing off the back

Sure hope it don't skin up that new Cadillac

Front porch steps?, they're loose at the bottom

It don't make no sense to fix them

Cause that floor just too darn rotten

Wintertime, we sometimes have some snow

That blows in through the cracks

It gets too bad, we just all pile up

Sleep out there in that new Cadillac


Welfare Cadillac - Guy Drake

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:20 | 2100282 falak pema
falak pema's picture

green dreams and bonus screams all mixed up in admin moonbeams of largesse. Election year is not the venue for being caustic dream wreaker. Nope, its time for pushing "ya we can kick the can" and doping the hope of stand alone rope trick. Magical stairway, like in a Fred A movie, it'll climb to tha moon, 'cos we are those who can innovate, we've shown the world with Freddie and Fanny, with Cdo and Cds, with SIV and shadow banking ABS/CP. and sub prime rhyme with the next bubble of US never say die hubris. As long as the Squid presents the IPO to the world as lead banksta singing "we can't lose cos we're the best", you know the "innovation" will be relentless...Good hunting frontiersman of the 21 century!


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:21 | 2100283 youngman
youngman's picture

118 much was donated to Obama´s campaign????   That is the green baby...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:22 | 2100291 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Don't worry $118m will seem very cheap compared to Gingrich's Mars Colony:

Newt Gingrich told a cheering crowd along Florida's Space Coast late Wednesday that he would establish a permanent colony on the moon, and develop a spacecraft that can get to Mars, by the end of his second term as president.

Apparently the US rally is richer than it thinks.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:26 | 2100306 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

There is no dark side of the moon.

As a matter of fact, it's all dark.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 17:42 | 2100938 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Yes there is, Pink Floyd did it.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:32 | 2100331 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

if Newt wins he can move the WH to the moon. he will be just like another of the FF's when Washington sent Franklin to Paris (Ben was fond of the Parisian women). after a year GW said, we haven't heard from Franklin, should we send him a letter? Newt can give his SOTU from the dark side of the moon, once a year, thanks Newt, oh is Obama there with you?

feminist T shirt  If they can put a man on the moon, why not all of them? insert politician for man

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:55 | 2100430 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

Newt's Moon project -- there is joke in there somewhere which includes a Gawd Awful Image.

Yeah launch a couple $Trillion into outerspace. That will solve everything.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:25 | 2100294 AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

There is nothing wrong with the Green Idustry except for it has not been made practical and is still in need of more scientific progress to be profitable and otherwise private industry would be storming into make money.  Obama can stick a green fork up his smug ass for all I care right now.  I hope they burn through the 16.3 trillion debt limit 2-3 months before this fall's election.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:40 | 2100377 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

Exactly... if there was any money in green energy, private industry would stampede to get a piece of the action... only there isn't any money in it because the world financial system is predicated on the flow of cheap oil.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:23 | 2100295 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

Freeze frame at 1:18 as Zionist Joe does the old two-fingered snag and lifts Wendy's wallet.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:17 | 2100500 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

Or he might have just been copping a feel!


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:23 | 2100298 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

This time next year Obama will be hustling for speaking engagements, hoping to make millions lecturing the few who will be in the audience how unexceptional we are.

He would know.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:27 | 2100311 The 100 Trillio...
The 100 Trillion Dollar Man's picture

That $118m may still be stored in the batteries. Just connect them up to Barry's bank account and watch them discharge.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:27 | 2100312 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hey Tyler... did you post anything on Range Fuels when it bit the biscut??

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:36 | 2100354 blu
blu's picture

Funny how that is. Probably because BAU energy news doesn't generate the right stream of continuous, screaming vitriol and (importantly) same resulting page views, one can imagine.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:00 | 2100449 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Exactly! Bush crony capitalist projects are like half the price! Vote Republican! They only bend you over like 95% as much as the other guys!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:20 | 2100514 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

When Tyler can wax poetic like this...

Good work US taxpayer - through your selfless loss of money you have managed to splatter yet another egg of infinite humiliation on the fact of the world's biggest and most incompetent central planning administration, which would make even Stalin green with envy......

who cares what he did or didn't post about Range Fuels!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 23:38 | 2101623 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

That was the Bush version of central planning... I'm old fashioned, I like to spread things around....

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:29 | 2100320 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

However they did succeed in converting lead into a  barbarous metal...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:28 | 2100321 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

Obummer the investment banker - hope and change we can believe in!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:29 | 2100329 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

"The C-Zero is unquestionably an enjoyable and different car to drive, but because of issues with range and charging, electric cars are not quite there yet."

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:31 | 2100336 blu
blu's picture

So -- when will some of these $millions in loans bring any paying jobs back to US shores? You say never?

I would feel better about all this if there was a well-intended, deliberate effort to get Americans off unemployment by rebuilding a viable manufacturing sector here. But since there isn't nor will ever be, I don't.

And before someone jumps up and says "that's right Amerika hates businesses!" let me point out that actually business hates Americans; nobody forced them to off-shore they did it for the bux. Business went for the free labor, corrupt politicians and zero regulations and so long as they could still sell their cheaply made shit at Walmart to their former employees living on welfare and foodstamps it worked fine. Most people in the third world would like to make more money, and don't enjoy being sick all the time. But their leaders/exploiters don't care of a few workers commit suicide each day so long as the suit cases of unmarked bills show up every quarter. And so long as all it takes is a suit case of cash to grease the wheels then 3M and GE and Nike and Apple and Abercrombie&Fitch will keep sending work there.

No way to change that. Not ever. Most American manufacturers depend for survival on both slave labor over there and welfare checks over here, and are simply doomed as a result. For shortly that gravy train is leaving the tracks for good. Well cry me a river. Greedy fuckers.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:29 | 2100550 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Don't forget the well compensated CEOs and their immeadiate stooges, skimming and trimming, before the big BKs. It's as if each breath of a company, in and out, it is being feasted upon.

Had an arguement with my kid two days ago. He is mildly mouthing off to an assistant principal and the guy is letting him and I am floored. I stop things, point out that the man is an authority figure and that he needs to be figuring out how to correct his behavior rather than trying to figure out how many more times he can do the behavior before he gets in trouble again (they have to wear id badges, don't get me started on that). I told him he has to stop trying to scam the system and the authority figure, that if he mouths off that way to a cop that I will not be able to do a thing for him in the future, and he needs to learn now. 

Later, in private, my son tells me that everyone is scamming, the teachers, the principals, the kids, everyone, and that I am wrong about everything. He says that it looks to him like the elite are all scammers. He stopped me, looked me in the eye, and asked, "Mom, I mean this, if they all do it and they are getting all the rewards for it, why shouldn't I do it? Shouldn't I learn how to do it and get good at it? Or at least understand it better?"

I was so upset, but I took a deep breath and said something like this:

The problem is that in this country, and heck probably the world economy, the problem is that everyone is looking for the shortcut, the scam, and the work around and now the structure of everything is built, not on something real that real people are finding useful, but it is built on the shortcut. Imagine, a whole structure built on shortcuts.

First I addressed the idividual micro level. If you spend your time scamming, you don't learn basic survival skills and how to take care of yourself. You just learn scamming and have nothing to offer others or yourself. No personal growth, no capacity for independence.

Then I detailed for him how this is operating at the messo level, how, if you spend your whole time kissing ass, you don't learn how the lower levels of the company work. Yeah you may get promoted, but you don't know how to do the jobs below you, and you will be a bad boss and make bad decisions. All you will know how to do is kiss ass.

Finally, I talked to him about how housing, finance, and the economy in general is collapsing because we are no longer producing real things but instead paper and number shuffling and skimming as we go. China is, but they are cheating by doing it through pollution and slavery (scamming their own people). He knows about all of this and follows it with me some. He has some silver and he knows why.

I hope I got through to him, he seemed to understand me. I have been on him about this for a few months because he is always looking for the end run, the work around. To him it seems "smart". I love him and I am disturbed. What pisses me off the most is that the world has become so screwy that this is the message that is getting to our kids. Teens always think they know more than you, for sure. Often they rebel against our values, but that moment in that principal's office, where I have to stop him from smarting off to the man, I mean holy shit. He was just going to let my kid do that. I stopped him. I was pointing to the man. I said, "That is an authority figure, you do not treat him like that." This school is the best in the city, one of the top 5 in the state.

I strongly believe we need to buck up and be mindful of our environment. It breaks my heart that the efforts to do better only get Ponzified. The Govt. provides the feeding trough and the Ponzi scammers feed. The market should provide the feeding trough. We have laws for self defense, we can have laws about pollution that act the same way that laws about property rights and physical protection work.

Not this. Our planet should be as sacred as our kids. 

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:34 | 2100347 gigeze787
gigeze787's picture

Another Obama f---up! Communist SOB!


All it will take is 10,000 more of these to equal the cost of the Iraq war/occupation/"liberation" that brought us $100/bbl oil.

Maybe we should make Cheney the new Energy Czar!

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:36 | 2100356 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Biden makes my skin crawl...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:22 | 2100519 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

He looks like a 'Creepy Old Man' model cyborg that didn't meet the factory Six Sigma quality goal.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:38 | 2100364 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture




.12 billion is nothing these days.  The quote above is the real story here, and alt energy things are getting a bad rap when they are merely the vehicle being used to do this rape of the taxpayers.  That's what we see in common in both these cases - slick restructuring behind the scenes just before filing for BK protection.  That's the real crime, and it's taking innocent taxpayers - and honest workers, for a ride.

As another poster pointed out - this is a super competitive business and there are already established players in it that can kill any startup at this point, with or without any help from the government on either side of the picture.  Now what we need to do is look at how much money the recipient of these government monies paid back to campaigns...that's the story, not alt energy.

Flame away - I live off the grid on solar power here, and drive a Volt, which is charged *free* from that system. PV panels by Solarex, some made when Amoco owned them, some when BP owned them - the oil companies actually do know the music's gonna stop while astroturfing otherwise - they spend more on PV development than they have to on astroturfers - follow the money.  Batteries made in Canada by Rolls-Surrette, as were the inverters, made by Xantrex.  All north American at least. 

Driving with *no* oil, no money given to towel heads at all - yeah, flame me.  Also tell me you want things produced in America and moan about the loss of manufacturing here, then dis the nice car I drive, which was built here, while you're at it.  There was no American ability to make the batteries then, so yes, the Volt uses ones from Korea, which are now being built here by that company, since the demand is now so high.

And Hate on GM all ya want - the other American car companies got the same subsidies for alt energy cars, but where's my Chrysler hybrid?  Not that I'd buy one of their POS cars that are held together with hot glue - the loss of those jobs here wasn't because they were expensive, it was because they were pure shit, held together with Martha Stewart hot glue (yes, my family owned one that melted in the sun and dropped the dashboard on the floor).

The hypocrisy I see here everyday is stunning.  Is that supposed to be part of the fight club mantra?  I thought winning was important - that's a lot harder to do when you delude yourself.

Oops, gotta go run an errand - at zero bucks/mile for fuel in a fun to drive sporty car.  Take that, bitchez.


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:06 | 2100474 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

How much did you pay for the solar panels? How much are they now? How much energy do they produce?

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:00 | 2100648 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

I've got dunno, maybe 20 grand in panels.  The price has fallen steadily the entire time I've been doing this, and I've been adding to the system up until last year, when I kind of ran out of places to put them or a way to use more energy usefully - lucky both happened at about the same time.  The energy they make is real dependent on the weather here, as you might guess.  We just adapt - on dark days, we don't do as much energy-intensive stuff unless it's real important, in which case we accept some battery draw down, or run a backup generator (one of the things the Volt can do, since I put some mods on it for that, it's very efficient compared to most fixed plant gensets - higher tech by far).

I have about 6kw of rated panel output, but that's fantasy for a solar input level you only see in orbit, not at the bottom of the atnospheric soup.  In reality the multiplier where I live is worth about 4.5 hours of that a day, averaged over a year.  It's enough if you're efficient.  The house and machine shop are less of a load than the car.

I'm not trying to push my house through the air and up hills at 70 mph after all, just cut up junk on the machines and weld it.  Few people "get that" one.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:38 | 2100586 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

We can't junk you becaue you opened with a quote, the arrow buttons won't work.

I agree with most of what you said.

The only problem I see is that your inputs to the system still require petroleum products to produce. When I see a solar panel factory running on solar, I will STFU. But even then, plastic is made of oil. I suppose you could derive from coal, but even still...Might as well rephrase it, you are not driving oil free. 

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:04 | 2100664 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

BP's plant that made most of my panels in MD, was fully powered by their own panels.  But yep, nothing's perfect - it all surely used some oil to produce.  But at least this way instead of turning it into smoke, you get some lasting value out of the oil - a force multiplier.


I am driving pretty close to oil free by any reasonable comparison to anyone else.  Yeah, it took a little to make and ship the thing - but most of that will last my lifetime.  Again, a huge multiplier over something that uses gallons everytime you twist the key.  And one thing here that takes getting used to - there's no key to stick in and twist.  Just the fob in an inner coat pocket does the deed.


You at least have to make the distinction between using an amount of oil and using it at a rate - forever.  Like rent vs own - a rate is always much more expensive over the long haul than any amount.  Any rate can fill an ocean if you give it enough time - an amount is just that - once.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:15 | 2100699 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

My bike takes oil inputs too! ;-)

We will never be out of oil, it will eventually have an EROI that will be unsustainable. I think if everyone chose your route, it would get crowded quick and it would not be sustainable.

I am building an ICF house and have geothermal heating/cooling. The house is insulated like no other, being ICF. I fantasize about solar, but I do not have a lot of space. What do you like for an easy quick start beginner project? Or more to the point, what do you trust?

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 19:34 | 2101208 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Do you have a south facing roof? How many sqft of panels could you fit on it? has the best prices. You'll have to figure out if you want a strict grid-tie (strictly sell back to the grid but doesn't work if the grid is down), an offline system (no grid) or a hybrid that sells back but also has a battery bank to back up essential power needs and allow the system to work with the grid down. IIRC it's about 10watts per sqft but this isn't necessarily accurate as it depends on the mount and how efficient that is (the mount holds the panels to the roof).

You'll want to understand what the start amps of you geo thermal compressor is and what the running power it requires before you start sizing a system because if it were me I'd want the solar to be able to run the heat/cooling in a grid down situation.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 01:58 | 2101801 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Thanks for your answer! Have the website up now. I also have a wood burning stove which should have me covered in the cold, in a power down situation. Unless, of course, there is no wood. I like your idea. I am also thinking about small, portable, which could charge small electric stuff (batteries?) and I could move it around the yard to collect sun.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:38 | 2100367 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

Save your words and energy, it's all pointless at this point..............

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:41 | 2100381 frostfan
frostfan's picture

I don't have a problem with government trying to help out companies to see if solar energy or electric cars can actually happen. 

I do have a problem with a delusional president and all his cronies making themselves rich at our expense acting as if these technologies will work just because the words come out of their mouths.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:48 | 2100412 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

+1 frostfan.  Truth is, they ARE happening now.  But people want someone to pay all the upfront costs - they are too cheap to buy their own solar, they want someone else to do all the capex, then whine that the rent on it is too high. I went off the grid 3 decades ago- cash basis, done and done.  It's about a 5 bagger investment now, and it charges my electric car with the spare output.



Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:52 | 2100421 frostfan
frostfan's picture

Glad to hear Fusor.   Wish there were more like you.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:43 | 2100392 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

I wonder how much the executives and directors of this company paid themselves in bonuses before declaring bankruptcy?

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:08 | 2100674 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

For me, that's very much the real story here, not that it was an alt energy company.  Those are just easier for the administration to fall for, that's why the crooks use them for this.

After all, you rob banks because that's where the money is, right?  If I were setting up a con, I know what to do to get on the gravy train.  Cynical but that's how things work.  Or as Tandy said "if you want to catch a mouse, make a noise like a cheese".  Over the decades, ripoffs have been rampant in alt energy.  Some because of high hopes and hype - just couldn't pull off the dream, but  also plenty because of sharp cookies knowing what would get the high risk money to steal.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:56 | 2100394 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

The Obama White House is opening peace talks (surrender talks) with the Taliban, so we can count on some savings there...

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:51 | 2100419 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

How much more spaghetti will they throw at the wall?

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:01 | 2100451 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

The GAO has identified the number one cause of weapon system development cost growth and schedule growth to be a lack of technology maturity going into the expensive later parts of system development.

I suggest a similar problem with these green energy investments.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:17 | 2100501 OmPonzi_PonziOm
OmPonzi_PonziOm's picture

Meanwhile back at the stupid ranch, the Department of Stupidity is refusing patent applications for LENR at the same time LENR is going mainstream internationally. HA HA  'Low Energy Nuclear Reaction' is a game changer. If it proves in practice, goodbye oil at 100 dollars a barrel. LENR is a geopolitical nightmare. So what happens to solar if energy is virtually free? EROI of lab cold fusion NOW beats tar sand oil with no greenhouse gasses or pipelines. Click on: "Cold Fusion Times" for the latest information or rather Ixquick it in HTTPS if you don't want the mind police to be tracking your folly. Key players are E-Cat and Defkalion.


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:11 | 2100686 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

As a fusion researcher myself, I've looked into Rossi's version of LENR quite a lot.  There's a good reason his patents were denied in Italy, other than his previous jail time for another alt energy green scam he ran.  It's that he refuses to reveal enough details in the patent app or anywhere else for anyone to find out if he's actually got anything or not.  His rabid fans (who must live on actual unicorn skittle shit) to the contrary, the guy looks fake to everyone real.  I'd be duping his results here in a week if I could find out how to try it.  But he carefully keeps anyone with a chance of doing so very far away from finding out what he's really doing.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:37 | 2100580 onlooker
onlooker's picture


THIS President illustrates that the Person in the Oval Office is not fool proof if he does not have good staff or ignores advice of sanity, or does not have the background to do the job.


He is a bright guy, no doubt, but he does not have the brightness to overcome his lack of experience and background to lead successfully the United States of America. Many thought good advisors could get him through the problems he did not have the skill to deal with. What ever went wrong did. At a super critical period in our history, we are upside down in the White House.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:05 | 2100666 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

You sure do give the Puppet-in-chief a lot of credit for simply being attached to strings.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:52 | 2100631 Gromit
Gromit's picture

If alternative

Energy makes me feel good

Who cares what it costs?


Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:14 | 2100694 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Makes me feel good - and it makes me money too!  Best of all worlds.  Because I homesteaded on raw land, and built my own place - no power company means no building permits needed - just another instance of crony capitalism where the county delegates enforcement to the power company (good name in another context, eh?). 

So I pay taxes on "barns" for 4 dwellings on my campus - which pays off the solar system every year...and has for over 30 years now, that's quite an ROI, not available to everyone, but it's there if you do the right work and planning.

They might figure it out someday and shut that down, but it's kind of too late for them to prevent my profits on it.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:53 | 2100632 jcaz
jcaz's picture

The best part is when the CEO in these deals stands up and proclaims "I take full responsibility"....  And then sneaks out the back door, golden parachute fully in hand....

Look for Obama to try this trick-  at which point, the response SHOULD be "Fine- get your checkbook out".....

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:02 | 2100657 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

$118.5M???? Pikers!

AIG is at $50B and counting. Between them and their TARP-seeking buddies, they bilked $133B from Uncle Sugar.

Oh, I know, they'll pay it back any day now, being as they're all so "cash flush."

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:17 | 2100702 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Don't just blame Obama. Clinton set into motion the BIGGEST loss to taxpayers in history: the National Homeownership Strategy.

This is a comment on Krugman's grossly misleading "Tale of Two Bubbles" blaming Bush SOLELY for the household debt bubble.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:21 | 2100708 q99x2
q99x2's picture

If they would have made those batteries to power End Of World products, products needed to survive the economic collapse they are creating, Ener1 would have been a success.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:29 | 2100733 Crispy
Crispy's picture

Cronyism..YES WE

What Obama really said to Boehner right before the speech "Fuck the fucking fuckers...lets milk the cunts dry together, deal?"  

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:34 | 2100749 non_anon
non_anon's picture

meh, just a paper loss, what I hate is the loss of my freedoms

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 16:46 | 2100778 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

Obama should quit this idealistic nonsense with the roads and his bridges and his alternative energy source-powered technologies.

If you want to restart the economy using the taxpayer's wallet there's only one viable solution.



You are welcome America.


P.S. The Shift from Manufacturing to Service Economy

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 17:20 | 2100878 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"hey, George...some of your folding money is flying out the window."
