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Toyota Prius



  • Yes, great point about the HAH. If you just read car mags you'd think that cars need to do 0-60 in under 7 seconds to be worthy of consideration. The HAH flopped because few want to lay out that kind of cash just to go a little faster (and that's IF traffic allows). Damn, Honda, give me something between the 2.4L I-4 and 3.0L V6 in performance and 40 mpg in the city.
  • peraltaperalta Posts: 94
    If a toyota camry hybrid engine is put in a prius body I would imagine it will be very interesting. I would like to call it the GT Pius.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    MidCow just had a cow.. :P
  • michealsmicheals Posts: 27
    Thanks for the kudos. I would have been really disappointed if Toyota had went the same souped up V6 route that Honda did. If some people want ludicrous speed, make that an option, just not the only option. Maybe it is too hard to make two different hybrid options in the same car, but this would let the numbers speak for themselves on what people want (and not loading them up with tons of options standard--ala Highlander Hybrid).

    Proof that people are still clamoring for the Prius combination of acceleration and fuel economy is CNN's recent article on the ten hottest cars in the US. Number one is the Prius based on days on the lot, lowest amount of rebates, and how closely to MSRP it sells for. I am not sure if posting a link to the article is okay, but here it is:
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    No it still won't be manual shift - Prius GT :)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160

    Not so much too hard as too expensive. This is the function of the Marketing dept, Toyota's is among the best if not the best in the auto industry, to find out what sells and what the greatest number of buyer want. In the case of the HH it was IMO a 'tagalong' to the 400h which was the first Lexus hybrid with 12000 advance orders. Since the two vehicles are the same except for glitz it makes sense to add some volume to the hybrid SUV platform by making some Toyota product to go along with the Lexus product. Increase volume / decrease costs.

    I think a 2.4L +HSD HH would double or triple sales in the Toyota line but would it be more expensive to produce both a 400h and a 2.4L HH? That I dont have a clue about but it makes sense that it would.
  • canccanc Posts: 715

    I've read earlier posts and it seems that many people are not recommending the Prius for people who mostly put on highway miles on their cars. Is this really the case? I live in the country, but commute every day (or almost) to the nearby city (about 40 miles away). I really like the looks, praticality and comfort of the Prius, but am wondering if I should be considering another car, considering I won't reaping the full benefits of the HSD.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    You put enough miles on to justify a hybrid. It seems to be doing well out on the highway. As long as you don't drive 80+ MPH on your commute. Why die wondering if you should buy one. If you like it and can afford it.

    One question. Do you drive through a lot of snow? If so I would ask people in your area about the Prius.
  • canccanc Posts: 715
    Thanks for the reply. I do drive quite a bit, but it's just that the hybrid system isn't really effective after 50 km/h (the gas engine is running all the time)--please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

    I rented out a Prius and really really liked it, but I'm not sure if spending the extra cash for the Hybrid system to be worth the expense, considering the type of driving I must make.

    Yes, I do drive quite a bit around in the snow. I live in Ottawa, Ontario.
  • Somewhat a personal choice - no real alternatives in the size of vehicle of the Prius to get 46-50 mpg on regular basis. If go with a diesel, in the same price range as the Prius. Yes engine runs most of the time on the Prius at highway speeds - but the eletric kicks in for passing / slight grades / hills to give better performance.

    Only alternative that I'm aware - is to go with Toyota Corrola; about $3K less, about same highway mpg - but smaller.

    I think bigger concern is the reliablity of the technology and available resources to repair once you get away from the dealer. This offset by the reliability of Toyota. The 1.3L engine is a proven workhorse - should get 200K miles out of the gasoline engine.

    The relaive low ground clearance can be issue with snow - as any other vehicle with the same ground clearance.

  • canccanc Posts: 715
    Thanks buckeye for that--the reliability of the 1.3L was not yet something that I had considered. You're right, however--there isn't a car out there that combines a 4 door hatch and the roominess of a Camry, with the fuel consumption of an Echo.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    what I found out about the 'snow' question is that in the new models Toyota is allowing the VSC/Trac to 'slip' a little at low speeds in order not to have the situation of going dead when traction control takes over on slick surfaces.

    It's been a question apparently throughout all the Toyota models having VSC/Trac. I think the new Camry is the first to have the 'slipping trac' so to speak. Computer adjustment. And it only occurs when you stomp on the pedal in a slick situation, slow careful accelerations dont seem to induce the trac to kick in.
  • Perhaps a Civic or Corolla is cheaper to own overall than a Prius but the problem with these two cars is that Honda and Toyota make them only in sedan and coupe format, ugh. The Matrix is allegedly a Corolla but it doesn't get nearly the mileage and it is slower as well. I mean 30/36 is not bad, really, for the utility but the model is just so dated now. If the Prius didn't have that hatch (a la Gen I) it wouldn't be half the car, frankly. I won't even consider the Civic Hybird because of that stupid 10 point something cubic foot trunk. Useless.

    I was out there with tape measure at the dealership. Prius has 37-38 inches between the wheelwells in the cargo area and at least 60 inches from hatch lid to the top of the rear seatbacks rolled forward. The cargo area is admirably flat and you don't have to tilt the rear seat cushions forward either.

    I'm waiting for the Honda dealer to tell me when they have the Fit in stock. 33/38 and since it's positioned as a Gen Y vehicle (that will be bought by 50-somethings, Echo Redux), it's cheap too (read 14-16K). With the Magic Seats, the Fit can apparently hold a decent amount of cargo too. It's that or the Prius. Big difference in price, yes. Prius worth 10K more? Cannot say.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    I think that you'll find the Fit comparable in a lot of respects, except refinement on the road. Like all Hondas, its Achilles heel is going to be noise, especially road noise. Not a problem for commuting, but a real problem for long trips. We want to get by with just one car for everything, and the Fit and Nissan Versa are real competitors for the Prius on paper, but comfort during 6-9 hour stints on the road is the big question.
  • clethroclethro Posts: 22
    Half or more of the miles on my Prius have been on the highway. The posted speed on the expressways outside of the cities is 70 mph in Indiana. I set the cruise at 74. The computer typically indicates around 40 mpg at that speed. Yes, you do lose mpg the faster you go, and 70 is beyond the peak efficiency speed. Still, any other car would likewise be beyond its optimum at that speed. And most any other car would be getting well less than 40 at that speed. Driving into a strong headwind knocks the mileage down a bit. I've had that happen a number of times.

    My overall mpg is at 44 right now. That's for around 5800 miles. The colder temperatures do bring the mileage down some.

    I haven't really driven the car in snow, just slush. For some reason it has hardly snowed around here this year. And the one time it did snow somewhat heavily I drove my 4x4 truck.

    As for reliability, I hedged and bought the 7/70 extended warranty ... just in case. This is for the non-HSD part of the car. Toyota's warranty on the HSD is either 8/80 or 10/100. You'll have to look it up because I don't remember what it is.
  • If you drive a Fit like a Prius on the highway, i.e. a relatively slow 65-70 mph, perhaps the road noise won't be so bad. Overall noise in my 2003 Outback wagon is reasonably controlled at or below 75 mph but once you eclipse 75 noise becomes a real, almost this-is-a-design-flaw, issue.

    But what gets me is that $3000 or so federal tax credit because if that's not there, the Prius is basically out of the running. It's limited to 60K hybrids per manufacturer and Toyota probably isn't very far from that today, just 79 days into 2006. So that's another game: Maybe the tax credit will be exhausted before the Fit hits the market in a month.
  • michealsmicheals Posts: 27
    I wonder where the whole message about the Prius being inefficient at highway speeds comes from? Most of my mileage isn't highway, but on the dozen or so long interstate trips (400 miles at 70-75mph) we have gotten consistently 45-50 mpg. Granted, most of our driving is in the South so it is usually warmer and not much ice/snow.

    However, one of the benefits of the Prius being a hybrid is that it can have a smaller engine. Even if the gas engine is running all the time at highway speeds, it is still pretty darn efficient (note at highway speeds). Even when it starts to dip below 40 at 75-80mph how many cars get that kind of mileage at those speeds?

    For what is worth, most of the people on Priuschat and other sites (even the CR reports) say you will usually get closer to the highway estimate of 50mpg than you will to the city estimate of 60mpg.

    I would recommend renting one but you already did. Now whether or not it is worth some extra money is hard to say. It may depend on how long you are going to keep the car, what the other car you would get would be (and it's cost/mileage) and other intangibles like the gadgets and neatness of the car.

    It is pretty difficult to justify getting the Prius over a used Corolla (or civic) in terms of gas savings. Needless to say, you get a much better car than either of those, but if you are happy with those, then I would go that route. At extra $5k or more for 15mpg extra on the highway takes a long time to make up the initial cost. As gas prices go up, then it can make up that difference much faster.

    One thing to note is that pretty much everyone I have seen post from wintery climates think the stock tires are horrible and get great performance in the snow with winter tires (aside from the low clearance). A site you might peruse is as he comes from a northen climate (Minnesota it looks like).

    The prius is very quiet, even at highway speeds. You can easily go 70-75mph and think you are going much slower.
  • canccanc Posts: 715
    Thanks for the post, and for everyone that answered mine thus far. You're right MichaelS, the Prius is really quiet, and might I add, comfortable--it's not a Camry in terms of comfort, but it rivals it IMO. I just love the Prius, but am trying to rationalize the added expense to get the HSD!

    I usually keep my cars for 6 years or so, but realize that I'd have to keep my car for about 10 years before I recoup the savings on gas. That said, I must admit that I'm a greenie, and loved the fact that my car doesn't keep running on stops or when I'm stuck in traffic. When I rented my Prius, that's probably the thing that impressed me the most. You look at the cars around you that ARE still running and think that all cars should be like the Prius; having an engine running at idle just seems like a crazy thing to do now.

    I've also heard that the stock tires are pretty crappy, and looked into getting Michelins. They do make some, and I was thinking about going with those. They'd probably make the car a bit more comfortable too, if it wasn't comfortable already...

    When I rented the Prius, I consistently got 50 MPG with the cruise control on set at 72 MPH.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    From what I hear the Goodyear Integrities are kind of mediocre. In 10000 mi since Nov 30th I havent noticed anything bad about them but on all my vehicles I switch over to Michelins at the first opportunity. I find tMic's to be much quieter in most cases.

    ;) Can there be less than zero noise from driving?
  • I'm coming off of my "car buying anticipation high" and do not think I will be buying a Prius after all. Reasons?

    -Need package 4 (for the VSC) but dealers seem to have TONS of pkg #6 and a few #3. Not paying for equipment I don't want.

    -Interest rates are high/Toyota refuses to subsidize. My current loan is 2.9%/60 months and I do not want to switch to a 5.95%/60 month. The Prius is too expensive for me to pay off in cash.

    -Cost of ownership questions. With the impending flood of hybrids in the next couple of years you have to wonder if the Prius is going to be such a hot ticket on the resale market.

    -I am afraid to give up Subaru AWD for a FWD with low RR tires. I will not switch to snow tires in winter because we have "too many" dry winter days in Philly and the pricey winter tires will just get worn out.

    -I might regret going from MT to CVT. I really like shifting my own gears.

    -I don't have many complaints about my Outback other than fuel consumption. I think it's more sensible just to keep driving it (only 30K on the odometer).

    The Prius is definitely a neato car and I want it for "emotional reasons" but when I think about it more from a rational perspective I really should hold off. If gas goes back to $3.25 maybe I'll change my mind.
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