Tuesday, February 03, 2009

Oh, dear. This might not end well.

Someone hasn't quite figured out that there's a new sheriff in town.


thwap said...

Supposedly there's a lot of higher-level officers on the take in Iraq and Obama is threatening to take their gravy-train away.


So, if that's all true, these "officers and gentlemen" are trying to hang on and kill more Iraq civilians and their own precious troops, in order to maintain access on all that unregulated swag. Which is pretty disgusting actually.

Boris said...

Corruption aside, I suspect the generals are institutionalised to the mission. They've poured themselves into that place for years now, any suggestion that they depart on terms other than those of their own making might be a little hard to take. The world is bigger than Iraq.

Robin said...

thwap - Linkie, she no work.

Mike said...

My understanding is there are lots of other officers and ex-officers that are quite anxious to get out.

thwap said...


I've been getting by with and before, ... what's wrong with that now?

Renee said...

Off-topic, but I think this poll needs to be crashed. Go forth, my pretties.

Boris said...

Oh, I'm not disputing corruption, I'm saying that some generals might well be wedded to Iraq and/or the Bush doctrine quite apart from the actual corruption in the mission in practice.

Alpha Male said...

Boris, that is not uncommon... Many leadership types will take personal ownership of a mission, and do take it very personally when things go either good or bad.

Because a lot of us tend to be mission oriented types, perhaps something as simple as redefining the mission from on top... Not an easy sell though, if the perception is that the current mission is not complete.

I am of course assuming that there is an "end state" statement to the mission orders in Iraq (I honestly do not know). If they are approaching their "end state", but not within 16 months, there will definatly be push back even from those that are not corrupt.

I hope for two things. That the allegation of corruption in the US forces command structure is 100% false... And two, that they will follow their Commander in Chief's orders. If there is nothing manifestly illegal about the order to withdraw, then they have no recourse but to STFU and withdraw.

sooey said...

So, because the invasion was illegal, you're suggesting an order to withdraw is, too?

CC said...

AM writes:


That may be, AM, but it's long past time for any argument suggesting that anyone is approaching their "end state."

This was supposed to be a pushover. A "cakewalk." It was "mission accomplished" so long ago, I forget what year it was. It was supposed to last mere days, perhaps weeks, well, OK, months at the absolute outside.

It's too late for that argument now. You can't be years behind schedule and start arguing, "We're almost there, you can't stop now!"

They've had years to do what they wanted, and they didn't get it done. It's over. Time to pack up and head home.

P.S. Oh, and it's time to cashier generals who have chosen to diss their Commander-in-Chief in public. There's no excuse for that kind of insolence.

Mike said...

I love all of your Blazing Saddles analogies CC

Alpha Male said...

Sooey, I do not believe Iraq was legal at all. I do believe that the entire previous administration needs to be tried, and then sent to jail for the rest of their lives.

CC. What you say is true... For you.

Please, read the whole para below... I am trying to express my thoughts honestly and as clearly as I can.

What is true for those tactical and strategic officers involved in Iraq is some of them have a lot invested in that place on an emotional/psychological plain. Their own soldiers have died, and they have had to tell the loved ones left behind too many times... And believe it or not the US still has an awful lot of really good officers who do care about their soldiers. Not staff types that merely view soldiers as a stepping stone, but leaders who will show up for the Baptism of a Pte soldier's children, leaders who will counsel soldiers in marital trouble, leaders who accept soldiers into their extended families. Those officers, who buried so many of their own will have a very hard time letting go before the current end state is met. The psychological toll for them will be enormous, as they would then start to think their troops died for nothing. (Even if you think it was/is for nothing, a soldier can never let that into their head, as such thoughts are not far off suicidal.)

I have trained soldiers myself, who have gone to Afghanistan, and in two cases did not come back. It hurts every day. I have the belief that we can help Afghans, and I am frustrated by the lack of communication from our government (especially CIDA) concerning our actual attempts, trials, and successes in Afghanistan currently. I have seen some of these successes myself over there... Were someone to tell me today, that that is it, that is all, you are done in one year/six months/tomorrow, it would be a very bitter and painful pill to swallow. I do care about my soldiers very deeply... I do hope to see each and everyone of them retire at old age, with grand children, and fond stories of the times it was good for us. I do need to know, that the sacrifice of my friends, my soldiers, my commrades was for something. I need to know that more then anything in the world.

I believe that something is for Afghans to have Afghanistan back without outside influences (US, Pakistan, Russia, Canada, al'Qaeda whoever). I believe that something could be for a chance at peace in an area that the word no logner exists.

(This is a different subject, and I do not mean to hijack CC's page on him... I use it merely to express my own thoughts and feelings on the subject hoping to give some insight to it. I will eventually put up a new post on my own board concerning this when I have time.)

The callous, in it for the money, and taking bribes on the side type officers, as far as I am concerned should be rounded up, court martialled, shot, pissed on, set on fire, buried, dug up and shot again. (If you have not figured it out yet... I view war profiteering as the greatest crime any human being could commit... These types are lower then pedophiles as far as I am concerned, and no torture could possibly be enough ever for the pain they inflict on humanity for personal gain).

I do agree that Iraq needs to end NOW... I am just trying to expose some of the psyche that will exist. The human toll in Iraq is enormous and unnecessary.


Agreed whole heartedly.

Boris said...

Thanks for that post, AM. I saw the Somalia/Balkan vets who trained me struggle with rationalising meaning from their experiences. I see a very close friend continue struggle with his experience in Afghanistan.

Alpha Male said...

Thanks Boris.