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Honda to introduce a new 3.5 liter V6 diesel by 2010






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RE: It amuses me
By Andrwken on 7/11/2007 1:01:07 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong, they are not more popular because they won't pass emissions. Ever wonder why a duramax diesel, with all it power, and better gas mileage than most of the gas engines, only gets used in heavy duty trucks? Its because half ton trucks, and suvs have a higher epa standards, and cannot use them. Period. Heavy duty trucks get a pass. That's why you can put a 8.1 liter big block that gets 9 mpg in a 3/4 ton suburban, but not the diesel(particulate emissions). You want to talk about the reliability, go nuts, they did suck. This thread is more on the efficiency and emissions, and that 6.2 diesel was amazing for its time in efficiency. It wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell passing current epa standards though. And if you think a diesel engine is monumentally more expensive to build, then you don't understand the nature of how they work. They are expensive, because they are not produced in quantity as gas v8's and companies recoup r&d with high option tags, because the people who really want them, are gonna pay for them.

RE: It amuses me
By Zapp Brannigan on 7/11/2007 1:47:12 PM , Rating: 2
Naa man, Diesels are more expensive because they cost more to make. They are an overbuilt design because diesel isn't just ignited like a Gas/Petrol engine, it's exploded. the pressures it has to stand are much higher then a gas/petrol engine has to and so they design the engines to be way more durable, this is also way most diesels have turbo's because they can cope with the increased stress.

In America though, your probably right, diesels arn't as mass produced, in europe, that's completely different, pretty much all HGV's, Buses and LGV's sold now are Diesel, but are still more expensive then Gas/Petrol variants.

RE: It amuses me
By Andrwken on 7/11/2007 1:52:05 PM , Rating: 2
Sure they need to be overbuilt in comparison to a gas engine, but, when you look at all the vvt and now active fuel management tech used in gm's gas engines, are they really more expensive? it really does come down to the fact that if they were viable options in half ton and small pickups, they would be produced in mass quantity and not nearly as expensive. If our Epa standards weren't so ridiculously high, I could at least have the choice. the standards on diesel are so high now that I believe even the vw tdi cannot be sold in 2007. They want the exhaust cleaner than the air it takes in, lol

RE: It amuses me
By mongrelchild on 7/11/2007 1:56:46 PM , Rating: 3

I'm an ME, so i have a better than average understanding of the diesel ignition cycle and the associated componentry stresses. The fact is that the engines are built tougher with more expensive grades of iron/steel and to tighter tolerance. The injection system and associated componentry is also more complex. They cost more as a result.

Efficiency is not a big issue, as most diesel designs are very efficient under steady-state loads. Where the advantage falls apart is under transient conditions where efficiency is obliterated.... Though this is getting better as the control system becomes more sophisticated and precise.

A gas motor in most applications is cheap and relatively easy to get working efficiently and with good drivability. And the powerband is much wider and arguably more useful. This is why they are so widespread. Also, forced induction for small displacement motors is a luxury for gas motors.To get acceptable (by north ameriacn standards) output and emissions out of a small diesel, it's basically a requirement.

RE: It amuses me
By Andrwken on 7/11/2007 2:19:33 PM , Rating: 2
I'll agree with you totally on the high compression fuel delivery systems used nowadays. That does come at a cost. I also agree on the forced induction systems necessary for output. But, having spent 7 years working for a ductile iron foundry can assure you that mettalurgy cost and the materials needed to increase the strength of components is really a null issue. It is a very minimal cost to increase the amounts of copper used to increase the hardness of engine components(yes copper actually hardens cast iron when mixed), its more in finding the right mix initially, and not a long term expense. But just look at the active fuel management used in the gas engines, that is a complicated computer controlled valve body added into the manifold assembly that shuts down the oil to the hydraulic lifters and therefore shutting down cylinders. This kind of tech can add a significant cost to a motor except for the fact that it is mass produced and doesn't leverage a high dollar option due to large volume. if the diesels were sold in higher volume, I don't believe they would have the high price tags they do either. But, I suppose they can always charge a premium for high mileage motors now too ;)

