Israelis, Palestinians and football

Kick out racism

The vexed question of mixed football

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Readers' comments


Prof M H Settelen

My proudest day in school was when our chess captain played me board five out of twelve & asked me to draw, my result was a win; this game was held back however, as we were also playing rugby against the same school, I a scrum-half helped bring home a victory there too.
N.B. None of the other serious chess players played rugby!


An article about religion AND football?

This is easily the worst article I have read all week. If not all year.


This article was terrible. Period.

As all TE articles on Israel usually are. The Economist's lads know only too well that the way they misrepresent developments and events in Israel is the staple food for Jew-haters, no matter how they try to disguise themselves. So the hate fest which you can see on this discussion board and attached to every piece of TE writing on Israeli affairs is the paper's deliberate creation.

Reluctant Polluter

Dear Jew-haters L6QjhvJGVk and erniejpdx;
You can show up your pseudo sophistication and non-existent knowledge of history and ancient languages all you wish, it won't change anything in the land of Israel, Judea and Samaria included. The reality which you don't like that much (well, tough!) is that it is, and will remain to be, the Jewish state with its eternal indivisible capital city of Jerusalem.
A state of Palestine never existed, and the likes of you do their best to make it impossible for such a state to emerge ever in future. Once again - tough! We won, you lost. Eat it.

L6QjhvJGVk in reply to Reluctant Polluter

Dear expansionist:

Nobody has a problem with Jews as individuals - however, many of us have a problem with apartheid, racism and expansion of territory based on fictitious story books written centuries ago. It is the attitude of religious zealots and extremists that caused the "expulsion" of your people from every single country on the planet. All religions have their problem kids - i.e., the Islamic Taliban, the Christian fundamentalists, and the Jewish Taliban. It is the job of intelligent people to promote secular and liberal thinking, and to denounce politicians who win elections on populist agendas like evicting people from their homes and villages.

Here in London, The Independent has a lovely article by a young British Jew - Wayne Myers (28 November 2012). Here are a few excerpts from this very long article:








Is Zionism racism? It didn't have to be. There were historical strands within Zionism that were not racist. Martin Buber – Zionist founder, in 1925, of the Brit Shalom organization advocating a bi-national state, was not a racist, and nor were the pre-1948 Hashomer Hatzair.

But right now?

It's really very hard indeed to argue otherwise."

The basic conceptual issue is that a theocratic state has no place in the 21st century. Liberal Jews recognize this issue, and want to solve it. However, liberal Jews are found mainly in the USA and Europe. And the ones in power in Israel are the Jewish Taliban!!! That is the core problem!!!!

Just two points: so that Britisher, what's his name, states: "If the Jews should have self-determination in Israel, I argued, surely it is only logical that the Palestinians should also have self-determination in Palestine".
That is not how logic of self-determination works. Jews not simply "should have" their self-determination, they had it. And they defended it many times. And will continue to defend it, whatever it takes. The so called Palestinians may "should also have" their self-determination where ever they fancy, but they haven't. It is one thing to desire something, and quite different to achieve it. So the Britisher's long and meandering article is meaningless.
As is meaningless all your pseudo reasoning about racism. Prey tell, what races are included? Jews and Arabs belong to the same race.

L6QjhvJGVk in reply to Reluctant Polluter

"As is meaningless all your pseudo reasoning about racism. Prey tell, what races are included? Jews and Arabs belong to the same race" - your comment.

I agree with you that some of the Jews and the Palestinians belong to the same race. Then why
there a distinction between the word "national" and the word "citizen" in Israeli law??? All Israelis qualify as “citizens of Israel”, only Jews can be "nationals"!!! It was exactly on this point that I had stated that Israel is an aparheid regime which is racist.

Globally, the term "national" means "citizen" - e.g., "American citizenship is a nationality". In Israel, you can be a "citizen", but not a "national" - a racist formulation.

A group of Jews and Arabs are fighting in the Israeli courts to be recognized as “Israelis”, a nationality currently denied them. Israel refused to recognize an Israeli nationality at the country’s establishment in 1948, making an unusual distinction between “citizenship” and “nationality”. Although all Israelis qualify as “citizens of Israel”, only Jews can be "nationals".

Special status of Jewish nationality has been a way to undermine the citizenship rights of non-Jews in Israel, especially the fifth of the population who are Arab. Some 30 laws in Israel specifically privilege Jews, including in the areas of immigration rights, naturalisation, access to land and employment. Arab leaders have also long complained that indications of “Arab” nationality on ID cards make it easy for police and government officials to target Arab citizens for harsher treatment.


The group’s legal case is being heard by the supreme court after a district judge rejected their petition two years ago, backing the state’s position that there is no Israeli nation.

The head of the campaign for Israeli nationality, Uzi Ornan, a retired linguistics professor, said: “It is absurd that Israel, which recognises dozens of different nationalities, refuses to recognise the one nationality it is supposed to represent.” Mr Ornan, 86, said that denying a common Israeli nationality was the linchpin of state-sanctioned discrimination against the Arab population. “There are even two laws — the Law of Return for Jews and the Citizenship Law for Arabs — that determine how you belong to the state,” he said. “What kind of democracy divides its citizens into two kinds?”

Mr Ornan has been joined in his action by 20 other public figures, including former government minister Shulamit Aloni. Several members have been registered with unusual nationalities such as “Russian”, “Buddhist”, “Georgian” and “Burmese”!!! Uri Avnery, a peace activist and former member of the parliament, said the current nationality system gave Jews living abroad a far greater stake in Israel than its 1.3 million Arab citizens. Mr Ornan said the lack of a common nationality violated Israel’s Declaration of Independence, which says the state will “uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens, without distinction of religion, race or sex”.

Any official could instantly tell if he was looking at the card of a Jew or Arab because the date of birth on the IDs of Jews was given according to the Hebrew calendar. In addition, the ID of an Arab, unlike a Jew, included the grandfather’s name. “Flash your ID card and whatever government clerk is sitting across from you immediately knows which ‘clan’ you belong to, and can refer you to those best suited to ‘handle your kind’,” Mr Ornan said. The distinction between Jewish and Arab nationalities is also shown on interior ministry records used to make important decisions about personal status issues such as marriage, divorce and death.




Genetic tagging was the motto of a certain European country that got defeated in 1945!!!

Reluctant Polluter in reply to L6QjhvJGVk

"Special status of Jewish nationality" is only natural in the single and only Jewish state. You don't like it? Tough.
I cannot care less what is the status of Arab nationality in any and all of 22 Arab countries in the world - who even created the Arab League. Is it racist too? No? Then think about special status of Jewish nationality in Israel as a Domestic Jewish League.
Uri Avnery is not "a peace activist", but active Left wing moron and should become not "former member of the parliament" (together with other loonies kicked out of Knesset by Israeli voters), but former Israeli, as he already is a former Jew. Mind you, this is just my personal opinion, and I don't give a shit what anybody thinks about it.

And that's what makes real difference between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel: Israeli nationals celebrate the 65th anniversary of their state, Israeli citizens of Arab nationality mourn that day.
Yisrael Beytenu leader MK Avigdor Liberman on Tuesday harshly criticized Israeli Arabs who mourned the founding of Israel on Independence Day, saying that this provided further proof that they should be made citizens of the Palestinian Authority in any future peace agreement.
Right. Are you for a two states solution? Good, this will include Arabs moving to the future Palestinian state, where their hearts already are.

Eva Smagacz

If kicking out racism out of entire Zionist enterprise was as easy as kicking out racism out of Israeli football!!!!!

All humans are the same species; race therefore racism is a construct. If Israeli citizens and Jewish settlers believe that Arabs are different and because of that difference should be prevented from either voting in a unified Israel or establishing their own state in the occupied and blockaded territories, then they are being racist.

It's good that you immediately pushed Recommend button to your own post, but it doesn't make it more comprehensible: your conclusions don't follow your premise.
As a matter of fact, Arabs, too, think they're different from others. And French. And Lithuanians. And Navajo. And... well, you name them. And you know what? They are!

Reluctant Polluter

Under the headline “Kick out racism”, The Economist starts to tell us that engagement of Moslem footballers led to some problems in Israel... This is a huge scientific discovery, actually: a Moslem race! Would you please publish some details?
Another unscientific discovery is that Chechens somehow described as Palestinians in the lead... "Israelis, Palestinians and football". How come?
Then, the scribbler of this piece says: “if [a Moslem player] scores, hundreds walk out”. I'm sorry, but he contradicts his own assertion that only a fraction of fans still attend the matches, so where are those hundreds coming from?
Obviously, this is another piece of vulgar propaganda in which this newspaper invariably plunge every time it publishes anything concerning Israel.

jouris - old account

From the sound of things, most of the rest of the football clubs in Israel manage just fine with mixed players. Which suggests that either this particular club will come to terms with doing so, or it will die.
Either way, the bigots will be without a home. Which will be a plus, for football and for Israel.


Can you imagine the media circus if a European club had it's clubhouse burned down for fielding a Jewish player? If there is any anti-Semitic chants from the fans there is a terrible backlash but it seems that anti-Muslim demos are less important.

rsg england

Muslim citizens of Israel are Israelis, not Palestinians.
Palestine has only existed as an entity since the start of The British Mandate of Palestine. Before that it was a constantly changing geographical area, not a political entity.
The first Palestinians were Jews, as the Arab population of the area refused to be anything other than part of the Arab nation [as per the preachings of Sheikh Haj Amin Husseini].
Please try to use the correct terminology.

erniejpdx in reply to rsg england

Palestine as such is mentioned in the book of Joel 3:4 in the OT: "Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine?" The book was written between the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities.
The OT has numerous reference to the Philistines, the descendants of whom became Palestinians (the Arabic word for Palestine is "filistia" to this day).
The first mention of Palestine from a source outside the Levant is in Herodotus, "The Histories," c. 450 BCE. Aristotle mentions Palestine in his book "Meteorology." Roman writers used the term Palestina and Syria Palestina to refer to the area.
The objective of the Crusaders in the Dark Ages was to capture Palestine. (Pope Urban II, First Crusade, 1033)
The Franco-British Boundary Agreement of 1920 did not invent the word "Palestine" used in its documents, it used the name the locals called the place.
To say that the word "Palestine" originated with Israel in 1947, after it had been in use for 3,000 years, reflects a considerable lack of knowledge about the area and its history.

Reluctant Polluter in reply to erniejpdx

You're lying, simply and unashamedly: it's not "Palestine" which is mentioned in Joel 3:4, but Philistia. Palestine never existed as a country, and those who call themselves Palestinians now have absolutely nothing to do with the historical periods you mentioned.
Whatever is the Arabic word for any region in the world, it doesn't mean that Arabs own them or have any substantiated claim to them.

L6QjhvJGVk in reply to erniejpdx

You will never be able to convince a theocratic person about the reality of global history. They are like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland.

Alice continues to grapple with philosophical issues without any conclusion - the power of the "lobbies is much too strong and confusing for the poor child - Alice is a bit like a hapless Obama who is so exquisitely cornered and confused by Aipac and such like creatures!!!

"Humpty Dumpty informs Alice that 'there are three hundred and sixty four days when you might get un-birthday presents'. It is obvious to him that un-birthdays are real Beings and not mere utterances. His statement is another augmentation to one of the oldest and rudimentary philosophical controversies: whether Non-Being, like Being, exists.

Footprints of this controversy, which was initially conceived by Greek philosophy, can be tracked all over the two books of Alice. Carroll conveys, through Alice's discourses with the various figures she meets on her way, his belief that Non-Being does indeed exist. This stand can be inferred not just from Humpty Dumpty's statement but from other passages in Alice as well."

The Red Queen urges Alice :

'Try another Subtraction sum. Take a bone from a dog: what remains?
Alice considered. 'The bone wouldn't remain, of course, if I took it -and the dog wouldn't remain; it would come to bite me -- and I'm sure I shouldn't remain!'
'I think that's the answer.'
'But I don't see how -'
'Perhaps it would,' Alice replied cautiously.
'Then if the dog went away, its temper would remain!' the Queen exclaimed triumphantly.'

And this is how Netanyahu has confused American politicians that the "occupation" is actually not an occupation at all!!!


Likewise, on the "right of return" - the right-wing affirms that Palestine never existed:

The executioner's argues that: 'You couldn't cut off a head unless there was a body to cut off from', but the king is not at all convinced. To him, like to Carroll: ''anything that had a head could be beheaded.'

'I'll stay down here! It'll be no use their putting their heads down and saying 'come up again, dear!' I shall only look up and say 'who am I, then? Tell me that first, and then, if I like being that person, I'll come up; if not, I'll stay down here till I'm somebody else.'

All Serpents eat eggs
Alice eats eggs
Alice is 'a kind of serpent'

And, of course, on Zionism's perpetual identity crisis - i.e., are we are an Asian people returning to Asia?? Or are we a European people evicted from Europe??

'I wonder if I've changed in the night? Let me think; was I the same when I got up this morning?'

And the unavoidable question: 'But if I am not the same, who in the world am I ?'

And more stuff on grabbing land, ethnic cleansing and unbridled greed:

After drinking from the 'DRINK ME' bottle and growing in size to such an extent that her whole Being fills the room completely leaving no space for anything else, she observes : 'Oh, you foolish Alice!' she answered herself. 'How can you learn lessons in here? Why, there's hardly room for YOU, and no room at all for any lesson-books!'

It's not Jesus mentioned in the New Testament, but Iesous.

All this quibbling over the semantics and etymology of the term "Palestinian" is absolutely irrelevant. There were people there. The place was called Palestine. The people called themselves Palestinians.

The place was called Palestine - when? The People called themselves Palestinians - right. Different people in different times did this. For instance, the Palestinian Brigade - a part of British force - fought against Nazi field-marshal Rommel and consisted 100% of Jewish Palestinians, 'cuz Arab Palestinians were with Rommel.
Contemporary Arabs who chose this nick name did it only in the early 1960s. Their cherished spiritual leader of the British Mandate time Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini (Hitler's personal friend and uncle of the late Yassir Arafat) used the term "Palestinian" only for geographic reference. He deemed the migrant Arabs in the Holy Land as integral part of the Arab nation. For a change, he was right.

Palestinian Arabs have taken the name Palestinians, from the name given to the land after Britain took control from the Ottomans. We know where the term comes from - after putting down Judean revolts Rome renamed Judea "Syria Palaestina" after ancient Philistia, the present day Gaza strip. Pretty simple, pretty clear.

This is a stupid argument. We call people from Pennsylvania Pennsylvanians even though the name "Pennsylvania" hasn't always existed.

Why does the etymology matter? They are there - they were there before Zionist immigration, and they are being ethnically cleansed.

So Samaria doesn't belong to the 700 or so Samaritans still around?

People lived in those places for a long time before Jewish rule, and people lived there for a long time after. Citing a religious text to justify actions taken in a modern political conflict doesn't cut it. The occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza are illegal and unethical.

Israel's claim to the land isn't especially legitimate. If they don't want the Palestinians in the West Bank to be Israeli citizens then they should clear out and allow a Palestinian state to form.


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