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9 Dead in Salon Shooting Massacre; Where is Baby Lisa?; Michael Jackson Death Trial

Aired October 13, 2011 - 19:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers of the seal police department responded to the sounds of shots being fired inside a hair salon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gunman walked into the salon at 1:20, and he put a gun to the stomach of one of the employees.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know what to say. So many lives that are touched by these people that were so wonderful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Currently, the suspect is in custody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This isn`t something that happens in Seal Beach. It`s not something that we`re accustomed to. And it is probably one of the greatest tragedies to hit Seal Beach yet.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a bloody massacre in a small, idyllic California town as a man goes on the warpath.

Cops say 41-year-old Scott Dekraai got decked out in body armor -- there he is -- marched into the beauty salon where his ex-wife worked, and then opened fire, gunning down a total of nine people. Listen to witnesses describe the carnage on "Good Morning America."


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All you could hear was pop, pop, pop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then everybody was shook up and screaming and hollering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said he had a knife in each pocket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They had him by the shirt, and when they pulled his shirt up, then they realized he had on a bulletproof vest, and they took the vest off, and by that time, they already had him handcuffed.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable.

Until today, this small town, Seal Beach on the Pacific Ocean, just outside L.A., was considered an idyllic family-centered town. I`ve been there. It`s beautiful. It`s wonderful. It`s like Mayberry, USA.

Cops believe the suspected gunman`s ex-wife, Michelle Fournier, might have been the intended victim. And tonight family members say Michelle was among the dead.

The two had been locked in a bitter, bitter custody battle for years over their 7-year-old son. Their divorce documents are in the hundreds of pages.

Half a dozen people gunned down within seconds at the hair salon. One man was slaughtered just sitting in his car outside. An elderly woman is fighting for her life right now, as we speak.

What do you think about this? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586- 7297.

Joining me tonight in an ISSUES exclusive, Kari Salveson, who`s a client of the ex-wife who was, according to her family, viciously murdered.

Kari, thank you for joining us. I know this has got to be so, so, so, so tough. Almost surreal for you.

First of all, let`s -- let`s honor this -- this woman that you knew, this ex-wife of this suspected gunman. Tell us about Michelle Fournier. Who was -- who was she?

KARI SALVESON, KNEW SALON OWNER AND SUSPECT`S WIFE: She was a mother. She was a friend. She had a great personality. She always made you feel like, you know, you were welcome, that you were special. She paid attention to you. She was this little lady with a great big personality. It`s just really hard to believe that she`s no longer here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And as you stand there, in this area, where all of this horror happened, what is the town -- my gosh, I`ve been there many times. It is an idyllic town. It`s a beautiful, gorgeous town, filled with generally very happy people. What`s it like now? How are you -- how are you processing this?

SALVESON: I don`t know if I`ve really processed it yet. It`s still numbing. It`s still unbelievable to know that this has occurred. In the town itself, you know, life is going on, but you can tell that, you know, everybody`s really subdued and is really trying to process what`s going on and trying to be there for, you know, those who have been affected.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Kari, you went to Michelle as a hairstylist for about a dozen years. Did she ever talk about her problems with her ex- husband, Scott Dekraai?

SALVESON: Yes. Yes, she did. It`s been over a year since I`ve been in to see her, but it was pretty, you know, common knowledge that there were issues going on and that, you know, there was a custody battle taking place.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did she -- did she seem scared?

SALVESON: No, she didn`t, at least not the last time I saw her. No, she did not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, tonight she`s dead, and her ex-husband was caught walking away, just a couple of blocks away, my understanding is, and was cuffed.

Now, this suspect, Scott Dekraai, 41 years old now, had a history of violence. His ex-wife Michelle, who`s now dead, says he beat her during their marriage, but it doesn`t stop there. Court documents show he beat his stepfather, allegedly, in 2007. In 2008, he pleaded guilty to assault and battery and had to undergo anger management therapy. This guy sounds like a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.

Tanya Acker, attorney, it always seems that way. In retrospect, you look at it and go, it was a ticking time bomb. And here we are tonight with this horrific tragedy. Eight people gunned down and an old lady fighting for her life, and yet you can`t seem to stop it.

TANYA ACKER, ATTORNEY: And you know, the really tragic thing, Jane, is that it seems that this couple was involved in this heated, inflammable custody dispute, and now this child has lost both of its parents. I mean, you`ve got to think that perhaps the legal system at some point might have intervened. You know, why wasn`t there a restraining order? Were there some attempts to get these -- to get this couple to try to resolve this dispute in some way that might tone it down a bit?

But so often, these family cases are so combustible that it really is -- at some point it`s like throwing a gas -- throwing a match into a tank of gasoline.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re absolutely right that this poor, poor 7- year-old boy, his mother`s been gunned down. His father is now a suspected mass murderer.

Jim Moret, you were covering this story today. What do you know about this guy?

JIM MORET: Well, he had a -- he had a pretty horrible accident on a tug boat, where he was working in 2007. His legs were almost cut off. He was very badly hurt, and a person he was working with, a woman, died.

And I think that he, you know, according to the doctors that he`d seen, and I have one doctor`s note, a letter, a certified psychologist, board certified -- and this is with regards to the problems that he was having in his marriage, taking anger management -- this psychiatrist concluded that he had -- he was bipolar, had some problems with medication. He had to go through anger management training and counseling.

But in court documents, and you talk about the number of documents -- we found, I don`t know, 250 pages of court documents, just filed this year, where, apparently, he allegedly came into that salon and threatened his wife and coworkers as recently as a couple of months ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh.

MORET: So as Tanya said, this is a ticking time bomb, and unfortunately, nothing was done in time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. He actually went into the very same salon where he is now believed to have just done this huge massacre that gunned down eight people, and you`re saying he walked in there and threatened to do this, not so long ago?

MORET: According to the court documents, just a couple of months ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s a shocker.

Now, here`s what we know. In 2007, Scott and Michelle got divorced, OK? Again, a 200-page divorce document. That says just about everything.

Apparently, their problems didn`t stop with the divorce, however, because in court papers, Michelle said when it came to their son, who I believe is 7 years old, Scott was, quote, "almost manic, demanding absolutely right to control our son," and that giving them more custody of their son would be like, quote, "a situation where the inmates are running the asylum."

So I want to go out to another exclusive guest that we have here on ISSUES tonight, Stephanie Malchow. I hope I`m pronouncing your name. You are a neighbor, I understand. Tell me, who -- who is your neighbor and what is your take on this very, very bitter and ultimately tragic custody battle, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE MALCHOW, NEIGHBOR (via phone): I mean, it`s just extremely tragic. I mean, I`m listening to all this, and it`s amazing. I mean, that it appears that my neighbor must -- I mean, it seems like, you know, he was living a double life almost. I mean, around our neighborhood, everybody kind of thought he was just this normal, nice, outgoing, friendly neighbor, you know, and never really said much about his ex-wife except, you know, he was, you know, that she pretty much just left him, you know, once he got hurt, and that`s all like he had said.

And he was always very, you know, friendly and trying to be on the neighborhood watch in our community. And it`s just -- it`s devastating to hear that someone that you lived right next to, that, you know, you allowed your child to go over to their house, you know, and visit and play with their son, and then you find out, you know, all of this.

And it`s just -- it`s the worst -- it`s just -- it`s extremely sad, not only for his son and for everybody who`s been affected, I can`t imagine. I mean, I still can`t even really...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look at this guy.

MALCHOW: I`m sorry?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at this guy. He looks like he almost has -- I have to say, Stephanie, we`re looking at a picture, the mug shot of the alleged mass shooter, and he looks like he almost has a smile on his face. He kind of looks like somebody -- well, now that we`re zooming in on his eyes, he looks a little sinister.

But the wide shot kind of looks like, yes, you know, like you`re saying, a nice little neighbor, you know, a nice guy. He kind of -- he doesn`t look, on the surface, to be somebody who is sinister, but then when you look at his eyes very closely, you see something, something there.

I want to go to Mary Stearns. You knew the salon owner. Remember, this guy goes into a salon. I think we have a Google map of the area, as well, that we can show you. But he goes into this salon, and apparently, he`s threatened to do this before, and he goes in the salon dressed in body armor, OK?

And this is not so far from where we are right now. We`re here for the Conrad Murray trial in downtown L.A. This is Seal Beach. It`s a beautiful little community. It`s the kind of place that everybody wants to live in. And he starts just gunning people down, including his ex-wife, including the salon owner.

Mary Stearns, you knew the salon owner, who we`ll get to. He`s a hero in all of this. But did the salon owner ever refer to -- tell you about this time when this suspect came in and threatened to do just this -- Mary?

MARY STEARNS, KNEW SALON OWNER (via phone): No. No, he never -- he never talked about this trouble. Every once in a while when I would go in there, I would see her -- see Michelle being uptight, and you knew stuff was going on, but, you know, I didn`t pay attention...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you mean by uptight? What do you mean by uptight?

STEARNS: You knew stuff was going on in her life, and Randy would step aside some time and talk to her while I was having my hair done. And I never knew what was going on. I didn`t know about the custody battle. But...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, when you say Randy, we`re talking about the owner of the salon. The guy you`re seeing there is the ex-husband who allegedly went on this shooting rampage that left eight people gunned down and an elderly woman fighting for her life.

This guy, I have to say, is so out of control, Jim Moret, that apparently he walked out of the salon, saw a guy in a car, and blew him away, for lack of a better phrase, as well.

MORET: Yes, a guy was parked right next to the car where the suspect was and said, "What`s going on?" and then the suspect allegedly shot him.

And there`s a salon two doors away. And I talked to that salon owner today, and three people in that salon saw that murder. And there were nine people in that salon, and they thought, "He`s coming in here next." So nine people went into that bathroom of that salon, barricaded the door, called 911, as did other people.

And you talk about the terror, you know, you call it an idyllic place, but it`s a very close-knit community, as well.


MORET: And this morning I saw people who didn`t even know the salon owner, didn`t know anyone who work there had, bringing flowers, bringing candles.

Mary Stearns, who I spoke to, a very sweet woman, who knew the owner, and just saw the owner on Saturday, just crushed. This community is crushed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, I can imagine. And we`re going to analyze those photos in a second when we come right back. We`re also taking your calls. We`ve got a photo of the suspected gunman from years ago, and he looks nothing like he does now. What happened to this guy that he would allegedly do something so malicious, so evil, so incomprehensible? 1-877- JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. More on these unfathomable salon shootings, this massacre, next.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This incident will forever impact the lives of so many of us who live, work, and visit our great community.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was such a wonderful man and a salon owner, and his wife is just amazing.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: What a horror in Seal Beach, California, an idyllic community right on the Pacific Ocean, until today, where everybody is just shattered. They`re in grief.

This 41-year-old, Scott Dekraai, Dukree (ph) -- we`re hearing different pronunciations from different people -- dressed in body armor, goes into the beauty salon -- this guy here, according to cops -- where his wife worked. They were in a bitter divorce battle over a 7-year-old son. And cops say he just massacred eight people, and there`s also a woman fighting for her life tonight. So we`re talking about a huge, huge, huge - - this is a mass murder. This is a horror show.

Now, here`s the irony of this, or the weird part, is that he seemed like a nice, neighborly man, according to a lot of people who knew him. But he allegedly also made threats against his ex-wife.

Listen to this very quick, quick clip from CBS` "The Early Show," very short.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had warned her and said he was going to do something like this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. He warned her. That`s what we`re hearing.

I want to go back to Tanya Acker and Jim Moret. We`re here debating this. He was diagnosed as bipolar, which is -- the old-fashioned term for that was manic depressive. And he`s very high and very low lows, very high highs and very low lows. And he had problems with his meds.

So what I see, Tanya, is somebody who is -- has that duality. We`ve heard that with bipolar people. They can be really charming one minute. And then they have a manic episode or they go off, and they become another person.

ACKER: That`s right. And then when you add to that this combustible mix, I mean, this really contentious divorce he was having, on top of that, Jane. He also reportedly suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder. So really, we`re talking about somebody who was mentally fragile in a really combustible situation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look how -- I`m going to jump in here. Look how handsome he is as a younger man. Look at that. He looks good. And then there he is as an older man, but he`s only 41. It`s not like he`s an old man. Jim Moret, you had some insights in this.

MORET: You said that because of the old man, me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I did not.

MORET: Look, first of all, I don`t want to paint people with a broad brush. Bipolar does not necessarily translate to violence.


MORET: This man had a history of violent behavior, a history of anger problems, a history of this combustible, combative relationship with his ex-wife.

And the tragedy is that this fight over this 7-year-old boy, this child is now left with no parent, ostensibly. His mom is gone, and his dad may very well be gone for quite a long time.

But this was a powder keg waiting -- I talked, incidentally, to someone who knew him and knew of the problems, and she said to me, "You know what? All these people are saying he was a nice guy. He gave me the creeps." That`s what she said to me. Because he seemed to be manipulative in some fashion. It was a facade. And I think that, when you look at the reports, the doctor saw that that may have been a facade.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And what happens is, also, that sometimes people with bipolar don`t want to take their meds. And they`re OK if they take their meds, but sometimes when they feel better, they stop taking their meds.

MORET: Sure.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then they sort of veer out of control.

I want to go back to Kari Salveson. You knew the salon owner, who was tragically gunned down in this, and apparently he, what I`m reading is he`s the hero in all of this. He actually, very courageously, tried to step in, apparently, this Randy Fannin, the salon owner. What do you know about that, if anything, Kari?

SALVESON: I don`t know anything about really what took place yesterday. The family`s sequestered at this moment, so I haven`t been able to talk to anybody. But from what I`ve heard, he is definitely the hero of the hour. He tried to intervene, and the outcome is that he`s no longer with us.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is so sad, because you, in retrospect, with 20/20 hindsight, with the knowledge that we have now, we can look back at all the documents -- and I think Tanya and Jim agree -- and we could see that, oh, my gosh, this was something where an intervention was needed to prevent this from happening, especially given the fact that he threatened to do this. Why wasn`t something done? We`ll analyze next.


TIM OLSEN, ACTING CHIEF, SEAL BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT: Suspect Scott Dekraai entered Salon Rappai (ph), located at 500 Pacific Coast Highway yesterday afternoon and opened fire with a handgun, ultimately killing eight people and critically injuring one.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A massacre in Seal Beach, California, and tonight we have on the line, Kim Criswell. She works at the hair salon just a couple of doors down. And Kim, tell us what you saw and what you did as this gunfire erupted, leaving eight people dead?

KIM CRISWELL, WITNESSED SHOOTING (via phone): Well, originally, what happened was, we only saw the gunshot, the shooter shooting at the gentleman in the parking lot, not knowing that something had already taken place at Salon Meritage. I had staff that witnessed it through the window and just screamed, you know, "He just shot that man." We all ran into -- I gathered everybody in the salon -- there were nine of us -- and just locked ourselves into the bathroom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what -- what was it like to see this and react like this? What were you experiencing?

CRISWELL: Well, everyone was actually pretty in shock, frightened, crying. I mean, for the staff that saw what happened, I mean, it was traumatizing. And we were just trying to keep everybody calm, because we had no idea what -- what the situation was at that time. And we were afraid that he might come in and, so we were scared.

And we were just trying to keep the people that were, you know, really upset, just calm and just kind of, honestly, really just praying and just trying to really be calm and help each other to just kind of get through...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kim, did you know Scott? Did you know Scott? Did you see Scott, rather? Did you see this alleged gunman, Scott?

CRISWELL: I did not see him out there. I know that three of my staff saw him through the window. They don`t know who he is. I do know who he is. I just did not see him out there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know who he is? You know him?

CRISWELL: Yes. Yes, I know who he is. Our -- his son and my son actually in elementary school together.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: So how devastating for the 7-year-old boy to lose a mom, in this manner, at the hands of...

CRISWELL: It`s horrifying. Horrifying.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... the father, allegedly. And then the father is now under arrest. I mean, can you put your mind around that at all? This poor child. This poor 7-year-old.

CRISWELL: No, it`s actually -- it`s actually difficult. I mean, I`ve really tried to keep my son away from it, and unfortunately, at the school today, the kids just found out too much information. No, I can`t imagine.

I mean, all I wanted to do was, you know, be with my kids and hold them and touch them and make sure they were all safe. In fact, one of the things I said when I first came out -- when we came out of the bathroom and let the police know that I have a son over at the elementary school. But at that point, they already had Scott Dekraai in custody and believed that he -- you know, he was the alleged shooter. So they felt that we were all safe at that point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you know anything about this bitter custody dispute over the 7-year-old who played with your son?

CRISWELL: No, I didn`t really. I knew Michelle, you know, because we dropped off our kids together a lot. She -- we worked in the same center. We`d see each other; we were pregnant together.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did she ever express fear?

CRISWELL: Not to me personally. But I do know that there definitely were estrangement issues. That`s all that can I confirm, really.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. What a horror. Our hearts go out to the 7-year-old boy. Oh, just the worst.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The infant`s mother is seen on this video buying baby supplies in the local market on the very day her child went missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see Deborah Bradley, Lisa`s mother and another man walk in to this grocery store which is about a mile or so away from this neighborhood here. And they walked away, everything looks very calm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s the sweetest little girl I`ve ever seen. She`s always smiling. When you go up to her and you tickle her, she starts laughing.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, BABY LISA`S MOTHER: She`s -- she`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family, and she means everything to my boys and we -- we need her home.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is that woman`s child? Where is Baby Lisa? It`s a question we`re going to keep answering until we get an answer. The desperate search for this beautiful 11-month-old child now in its tenth day -- still no sign of her anywhere.

Lisa`s mom, Deborah Bradley, told Kansas City cops she last saw her baby in the child`s crib Monday, October 3rd, 10:30 p.m. Then when Lisa`s dad, Jeremy Irwin, returns home the following morning -- in the dead of night, because he works overnight, about 4:00 or 4:30 in the morning -- he said the house was open, the lights on, Lisa nowhere to be found.


BRADLEY: The only thing I could think of is, you know, maybe someone wanted a baby and she -- I hope that`s what it is.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, day ten of the search; Kansas City police with the help of the FBI scouring neighborhoods, wooded areas, near Baby Lisa`s house. Police continue to say they have not turned up any clues. They have no suspects, no persons of interest. One woman who lives nearby is clearly frustrated.


CHRISTY MORMINO, NEIGHBOR: Where is the baby? Seriously? Where`s the baby? That is what makes me so sad. And makes you have that feeling in your stomach, the more time that goes by, that the outcome is just not going to be.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, that concerned woman also had this to say about the mother, Deborah Bradley, who was spotted by this surveillance video shopping for boxed wine, baby food, and baby wipes with a man now identified as her brother, just hours before her own child disappears. Listen to this.


MORMINO: Half an hour, you go, "She had nothing to do with this." Then on the other hand you go, well, things aren`t adding up. So you just -- you want to believe that there`s not a crazy person out there who`s taking babies. But you also want to believe the mom too.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nobody knows what`s going on, but the mom is not, according to cops, considered a suspect. Straight out to Ed Lavendera, who is live, covering this mystery in Kansas City, Missouri; Ed, what is the very latest?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, investigators continue to say they have no leads, in terms of finding Baby Lisa, and they continue to do what they have been doing over the last couple of days, and that is fanning out their search in areas not based on any particular tips or any specific leads that they`ve gotten, but continuing to canvass the area and look around and make sure that they`ve left no stone unturned.

We know that they`ve gone literally through all of these homes in this area, and today they were searching another wooded area nearby. So they continue to do that, Jane, but at the end of the day here, it`s the same sad news that we here have not found -- or authorities here have not found Baby Lisa.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, now, we had all been wondering, who was this mystery man. Who was this mystery man that the mother was buying a box of wine with hours before the child disappeared? Well, it turns out, it`s her brother. So there`s no triangle, there`s none of that, and the family not talking. We don`t know if they`ve even hired a lawyer, if they`ve lawyered up.

But I can tell you this. It`s a strange twist, they`ve hired a high- profile private investigator, Bill Stanton -- we`ve had him on our show ISSUES. He`s a former cop. And he talked about his role, which is interesting.


BILL STANTON, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: I am here, not necessarily to defend anyone. I am here to lend a set of eyes and to consult based on my history and what I know and what I`ve done in the past. I`m not here as a licensed private eye; I`m here as a consultant. I haven`t been retained by anyone in Missouri. So to answer that question, I`m here consulting.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have a very special guest tonight, Diena Thompson, who is one of my heroes; a woman who has turned her grief into action. She is the mother of precious Somer Thompson, a beautiful, beautiful 7-year-old child who was taken by a monster and killed. And Diena, it`s always such an honor to talk to you.

The fact is that your beautiful daughter, Somer, was taken by a neighbor, who also had, according to cops, a history of child porn. So while people might be talking about the mother, she`s not a suspect, and the neighbors, all neighbors -- don`t they need to be scrutinized?

DIENA THOMPSON, DAUGHTER WAS MURDERED: Yes, obviously. I mean, with Somer, you know, you say neighbor, and that makes you think like right next door; like we couldn`t see his house from our house. But definitely, I mean everybody should be considered a suspect, because we don`t know where this precious little baby is. And she`s only, you know, 11 months, God bless her heart. I -- I`m grieving for them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And nobody -- listen, not to be -- it`s difficult to have these conversations, but, an 11-month-old. What is the motive for taking an 11-month-old, Diena? Tragically, the monster who cops say took your daughter, he had a history of pornography, but an 11-month- old? What possible -- can you think of any purpose for stealing this precious child, Diena?

THOMPSON: Well, I mean unfortunately, we do know that she could be a victim of sexual assault, even at 11 months old, because there are people out there that are not right. But also, I mean like when you think about a little baby going missing, you, to my mind, think that it was somebody that couldn`t have a baby. I mean I want to think the best-case scenario in this. That somebody couldn`t have a baby, they didn`t take the baby to hurt it. They just took the baby because they couldn`t have their own.

Doesn`t make it right -- they need to bring the baby home to their parents where the baby belongs. But that`s what I want to think when I hear about a very small infant going missing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I pray you`re right. Because at least then, it would be somebody who wanted to take care of the child and the child would not necessarily be in harm`s way, physically.

Now, Baby Lisa`s parents, they`re no longer talking to reporters, but here`s the mother, the mother of the missing child, Deborah Bradley, last Thursday, two days after her child disappeared. Check this out.


BRADLEY: She`s -- she`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family, and she`s -- she means everything to my boys. And we -- we need her home. I can`t be without her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here`s the thing. This mother -- Tanya Acker, attorney -- has said, well, the cops told me I failed a polygraph. The cops are saying that, well, she`s saying that, we`re not saying that. What do you make of her saying that?

TANYA ACKER, ATTORNEY: I think that in these sorts of cases, Jane, it`s so -- you know, people tend to jump to conclusions. They tend to jump to conclusions about those who are closest to the children or the missing child.

And in this case, remember, we just came off of a summer of Casey Anthony. You know, where we`ve seen a strange parental behavior, really scrutinized, and I think that already, now, you know, we know that this woman was shopping. We know that she had a box of wine before. So, you know, I can see, I can understand that she would be a little leery about talking to the press.

By the same token, I`m not sure what to make of this polygraph story. There are reasons you that fail a polygraph beyond simply lying. She might have been nervous. She might have been anxious. But I think that the parents not wanting to be close to the press or not wanting to speak to the press makes complete sense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, take a look at this. All the cops got together and they did a re-enactment of what might have happened. And I think -- there`s the house. It`s not a big house, so if somebody broke in, there`s the window that they supposedly broke into, and the cops actually tested it to see how easy it would -- or that`s the front door. Is that the window? It`s hard to tell.

There`s the window. There`s the window. Ok. There`s the cops actually trying to get in the window, to see how easy it would be.

But the point, and I`ll throw this out to Jim Moret, you`ve covered so many of these crimes, if somebody went into this small house through the window, turned on all the lights, open the baby`s door, took the baby and walked out the front door, wouldn`t you think the mother would have heard it?

JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Yes, you would. Also, I think the other problem is, I don`t believe that that window is the window to the child`s room, which would indicate that you would have to know where that child was, you would have to know a child was in the house. Would suggest that it would be somebody who knew the family, knew they had a child.

But you think about Elizabeth Smart. You think about Diena and Somer`s case. You know, those are cases where you could easily point to the family, and it turned out someone else was responsible. So it`s best not to jump to a conclusion right now. If the police are saying she`s not a suspect, we have to take them at their word right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, they had a blended family situation. Baby Lisa has two older brothers. Actually, they`re half-brothers. They live in the house with the family, ok?

So here`s a sort of strange family tree -- not strange, but it`s maybe not your classic family tree. Lisa`s dad, ok, the missing child`s dad, Jeremy Irwin, he has an 8-year-old son from a previous marriage. The mother of the missing child, Deborah Bradley, has a 6-year-old son with her husband. Yes, she is still married to a man who is in the army, reportedly overseas, but they have been separated for a number of years. Again, he`s in the military overseas, so he`s not a suspect. But she then had a baby with the man she lives, Jeremy Irwin.

So, should we take that into account at all? I don`t really think so, because we all have blended families today. There`s really nothing even that unusual about it. It`s just not your classic family pattern.

We`re staying on top of the Baby Lisa story and we`ll bring you the very latest. We`re not going to let up until we find out what happened to that precious child.

Michael Jackson, the manslaughter trial of his doctor. Was he a spin doctor? We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. You won`t believe what the family is saying. They`re saying Dr. Conrad Murray lied about a key, key, key thing that he says happened on the day Jackson died.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A healthy lunch at work often starts with fresh fruit. But I`ll tell you what it doesn`t have to include -- this. Plastic utensils. There`s a better way -- reusable utensils. I walk around with these, and I can`t tell you how convenient they are. And I can use them hundreds and hundreds of times, and save the environment in the process. You can have a delicious lunch at work without killing Mother Earth.





UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us what happened on June 25th, the day that Michael Jackson died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did anybody witness what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, just the doctor, sir.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Jackson was receiving very inappropriate therapy in the home setting, receiving very potent sedatives, including Propofol.

DR. CONRAD MURRAY, ON TRIAL FOR MICHAEL JACKSON`S DEATH: "Please give me some milk today so I can sleep." This is just a medicine that he was familiar with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the medicine?

MURRAY: It`s called Propofol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ultimately this cocktail was a recipe for disaster.

MURRAY: He wasn`t breathing, so immediately I felt for a pulse. So I started immediately to perform CPR and mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was inappropriate access to the appropriate medical equipment, a delay in calling 911, and inappropriate resuscitation that ultimately culminated in his death.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight in the Michael Jackson death trial. More Jackson family members coming forward and saying, "Conrad Murray is lying. He is lying." One of Michael`s cousins now telling CNN, Dr. Conrad Murray never comforted Michael`s kids or had a conversation with Paris after Michael Jackson`s death.

Listen to what Conrad Murray told the cops he did.


Murray: -- weeping, really weeping. I stayed there, I hugged them all; gave them comfort, to Paris, comfort to prince, comfort to blanket. (INAUDIBLE) Whenever they were sick, they would always ask for Dr. Conrad. Please call Dr. Conrad, you know. I gave them comfort.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: "I gave them comfort." All right. Straight out to Alan Duke, CNN producer; what is the Jackson family telling you, because you just heard Dr. Conrad Murray on tape saying, "I comforted the children," playing to the cops like he was this caring, compassionate doctor. What`s the Jackson family telling you?

ALAN DUKE, CNN PRODUCER: Oh, they`re really upset by that. When they heard that audio in court Tuesday morning, they didn`t like it. Because what they say is Prince tells them that that didn`t happen, that he didn`t really spend time with them. And he didn`t comfort them.

Trent Jackson, he`s Joe and Katherine Jackson`s nephew, he is Katherine`s driver. He drove Katherine to the hospital that morning, that day, to the ER. And he was in there with Katherine and the kids. He`s told me all kinds of things that were going on there. But the most important thing he told me was that Dr. Murray did not comfort the kids and those conversations with Paris that he cited never happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s interesting, because TMZ is reporting that the cops said if Dr. Murray had ever just said, I don`t want to talk to you, he probably wouldn`t be on trial right now, because once they interviewed him, they concluded he`s lying about a third of what he`s saying. So maybe that`s part of the third of alleged lies.

Check this out. A clip from a fascinating documentary called "Gone Too Soon".


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone has a piece of the puzzle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conrad Robert Murray.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you heard of this thing that takes you to the valley of death, and then brings you back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we finally put them all together --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you ever accused of having sexually molested Brent Barnes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t answer that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would we see in the big picture?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More breaking news tonight here on ISSUES. The filmmaker behind that remarkable project, Ian Halperin, also the author of "Unmasked, the final years of Michael Jackson"; I understand you have some new information for us, Ian?

IAN HALPERIN, FILMMAKER, "GONE TOO SOON": Yes, Jane. Well, there`s no doubt about it, Conrad Murray is definitely a guilty man and he should go behind bars. His egregious behavior is just indefensible in the court of law. But we have to also examine the history of the doctors involving Michael Jackson, and there were many -- as Deepak Chopra said in that clip you played, Jane -- who administered Propofol and lethal levels of Propofol to Michael Jackson, especially in 2001 and in 2005, there were two instances where Michael was unconscious and there were red flags and they had problems reviving him.

So there is precedent there. And instead of getting him off the drugs, what they did was they kept enabling him further, and these people should also face charges. I believe there was a murder conspiracy for at least ten years to murder Michael Jackson, Jane, because he was worth far more dead than alive, as has been proven. And these doctors should also be held accountable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you one of the conspiracy theorists?

HALPERIN: I wouldn`t say I`m a conspiracy --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think there`s others involved? You think that Dr. Conrad Murray was a medical hit man?

HALPERIN: Murray was the puppet. But the puppeteers were all the other doctors who had an ongoing giving to Michael Jackson of these drugs, and they were equally as responsible in the death of Michael Jackson. And until they are arrested --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s not what the prosecutors would say. The prosecutors would say they were not there that night and you`ve got to focus on the doctor who was on call. It was on his watch, Dr. Conrad Murray`s that Jackson died.

More next.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Knowing that some things a patient may ask for may not be in their best interests and knowing when to say no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we assume it`s true that Michael Jackson requested that he be given Propofol and you as a qualified doctor know that say that is not only inappropriate but life-threatening, no matter how much the patient may complain, no matter how much the patient may beg, you, as the doctor, have the obligation to say no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is absolutely right.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: How much wreckage did this man create watching over Michael Jackson and then he dies. Look at these kids -- the kids deprived of a father. They were weeping hysterically in the emergency room when they found out their dad was dead. And there`s more wreckage. Wreckage of all sorts.

I`m going to tell you about something that came up today. This is incredibly disturbing to me personally. CNN reporting the prosecution and the defense have both done animal testing to find out how Propofol affects humans.

RadarOnline reporting tonight that specifically they claim the testing was done on beagles, ok. Now take a look at this video. We found this heart-wrenching video of a beagle rescue group called ARME. These are beagles rescued from laboratories. It`s called Beagle Freedom Project. But imagine how painful.

We`ve heard all this testimony about how painful Propofol is, how you have to have Lidocaine because it burns so much. So as part of this wreckage, these animals, possibly like these, certainly animals and reportedly beagles, according to RadarOnline, were -- they had Propofol poured into them to see how they`d react, even though we know that how beagles react is not how human beings react.

It just breaks my heart -- Joanne Fowler, staff editor, "People" magazine -- the wreckage, the wreckage that has been left in the wake of this tragedy.

JOANNE FOWLER, STAFF EDITOR, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Yes. Well, you just keep thinking about those children walking -- two of the kids walking in and seeing their father struggling to live and watching Dr. Murray give him CPR.

It`s a really tragic situation. I know we spoke to nurses right around the time Michael died, and Michael had approached her, this one nurse, and said "Please give me Propofol." And he said -- she said no way. This is such a toxic drug, there`s no way that I can give it to you and have you take it at home. It needs to be carefully monitored in a hospital setting.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And it was this doctor -- I know what Ian Halperin said but it was this doctor who was watching Michael Jackson who admits giving him Propofol on the night he died.

Alan Duke, you have some more exclusive new information.

DUKE: Well, you know, we`ve heard what Dr. Murray said happened in the emergency room. But what I found out today is that when Katherine Jackson was told that her son had died, she was in such pain, she was simply crying, "They killed him, they killed him." I don`t think I`ve ever heard that one before.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who is "they" in your mind.

DUKE: That is actually Trent Jackson, her driver, her nephew who drove her to the hospital.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But when she says "They killed him" --

DUKE: Who is "they"? I don`t know. I don`t know. But she believed that someone had killed her son when she was in the hospital that day. And Blanket, balled up crying, that`s what I`m told.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. So this trial has left a lot of wreckage in its wake -- the death of Michael Jackson. You`re seeing the pain, and that`s why this family wants justice.

More in a second.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, here`s your ticket backstage to the Michael Jackson coverage. Head to our blog, hlntv.com/MichaelJackson; Hlntv.com/MichaelJackson. We`ve got all the in-depth analysis. You can give your opinion. It`s an entire community. Everything you want to know is right on there.

Joanne Fowler, staff editor, "People" magazine, what do you expect in the defense case? I mean is it going to be just a couple of experts and then, boom?

FOWLER: Well, I think everyone has been -- in the past the defense team has alleged that Michael did this to himself, that he -- when Dr. Murray had turned his back, that he had taken more of the drug himself. So I think that`s the big question on everyone`s mind. How are they going to support this? Is there going to be further discussion?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you`re absolutely right and I want to thank you for joining us. Stick with us. We`ve got it here.