Princeton Alumna To Female Princeton Students: Find A Husband Before Graduation en-us Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500 Sun, 13 Jul 2014 22:04:34 -0400 Grace Wyler Jenny Anaya Sun, 31 Mar 2013 08:42:42 -0400 She did just get divorced from her husband. She claimed their marriage was never going to work because he wasn't a Princeton graduate. I kid you not. Here: <a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ></a> nyentrepreneur Sun, 31 Mar 2013 00:23:11 -0400 Explanation: All those wild emotions are to help them get pregnant. All that energy and unstoppable dedication is supposed to help them do well at all the hard work of motherhood, e.g., maybe even just in a mud hut. It's an old story: E.g., it's clear enough in 'Tosca' as at <a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ></a> That is 100 years ago Puccini saw it clearly enough and put it in his opera clearly enough that audiences have understood it as realistic ever since. nyentrepreneur Sat, 30 Mar 2013 23:15:28 -0400 Brilliant. Based on people who can say, "Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt. Was lucky to get out alive and not bankrupt. Not going back again. Advice to the young: Don't do that.". I will add some support: First, on children, it's an old story (we should expect something else?), and there is: Maggie Scarf, 'Intimate Partners: Patterns in Love and Marriage', Random House, New York, ISBN 0-394-5585-X, 1987. Here Maggie is the wife of Professor Scarf, at Yale, in operations research, and the book has examples drawn from the Yale community. In the foreword there is a comment from Dr. Carol Nadelson, past President of the American Psychiatric Association, with "Traditional marriage is about offspring, security, and caretaking." Want a 'non-traditional' marriage? Be careful what you wish for: It's not nice to try to fool Mother Nature. Even if Princeton girls are so capable they don't need "security and caretaking", commonly in a marriage without "offspring" 'interests' will wander and destroy the marriage. But, of course, being "capable" is really not sufficient to eliminate the need for "security and caretaking" since also involved are emotions. She can make/inherit a fortune, live alone, and still need "security and caretaking". Second, on children, the feminists have tried to convince the US that a wife's motherhood is less important than a husband's career and, thus, want women also to have 'careers', be 'equal', crash through 'glass ceilings', etc. To borrow from 'All the President's Men', "Total BS". The feminist idea of motherhood appears to be at most to adopt and hire a nanny. Instead, "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.". Motherhood requires creativity, dedication, and insight, and a career is commonly more routine. The money from a career is 'fungible', all green, while the children from motherhood are unique, each made by hand. Even if a wife and mother works, e.g., to help pay tuition at Princeton, there should be no doubt that the real objective is a strong family and, in particular, good motherhood. Good marriages with children commonly conclude that having children was the most rewarding thing they did in life. Third, "competitiveness" is one danger. Again, not nearly new is: Eric Berne, M.D., 'Games People Play: The Basic Handbook of Transactional Analysis', ISBN 0-345-32719-5, Ballantine Books, New York, 1964. where he explains that attempting to have real 'symmetry' or 'equality' on everything is a mistake. Fourth, there is: Erich Fromm, 'The Art of Loving', Harper and Row, New York, ISBN 0-06-080291-X, 1974. The original edition was from about 1947. As I recall, Fromm was a Freud student. There can see some remarks that can provide criteria for a test of a relationship: A good relationship will have knowledge, caring, respect, and responsiveness. That is, each partner will (1) give the other knowledge of themselves about their beliefs, thoughts, desires, etc., (2) care about their partner, (3) respect their partner, and (4) respond to their partner. So, young men, when you visit her family home and see how her parents interact, evaluate them on these four criteria. You may find from one or both of the parents poor performance. You may find that, even if the girl you are dating is totally in love with you -- like the Elizabeth Taylor character in her version of 'Father of the Bride' -- and without even consciously trying gets A+ on all four criteria, the mother may fail. E.g., I saw one case that by superficial criteria looked like an ideal marriage and home yet looking at Fromm's four points could conclude that the mother was careful nearly never to say anything substantive to her husband about anything. Basically she had cut off any meaningful communications with him. So, she failed on marriage 'intimacy' -- there wasn't any. Or sincerity, affection, love, etc. For the traditional marriage vow part about joining "these two in the state of holy matrimony", she no longer felt so 'joined'. Maybe she actually hated him. But at least for a few hours she was able to give an Oscar-worthy performance of a 'good wife'. I agree: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. If the mother gets poor scores, then say nice things about her daughter, other children, baked green bean and French fried onion ring casserole, home decorating, garden, etc. but look for another wife candidate. For "Women are victimizing themselves to a mind boggling extent these days. They will always blame others for their problems" Fromm's been there, seen that, and has an explanation: his definition of an 'adult' is someone who has become his own parents by which he means someone who tells themselves the advice about discipline, etc. that they once got from their parents. Well, a lot of girls and women are not yet 'adults' in this sense and, thus, blame others. They are also dependent on others and, thus, blame the others they are dependent on. Sixth, it's an old remark (like nearly all important remarks about marriage) that the man and woman are marrying not just each other but also each other's families. The important part here is true even if her family is dead! Why? The usual explanation is that there is so much to learn for 'successful intimacy' that the usual way to learn it is to grow up in a family that has it and learn by example. So, when you meet her, that's what she expects from 'intimacy'; it's about all she's ever seen. If she doesn't see what she expects, and if you fail to handle this situation carefully, then she may conclude that there is something wrong with the version of successful intimacy in your family. Now your relationship is headed downhill. And a standard joke is that one of her challenges is to know that your favorite foods are French toast for breakfast, corned beef sandwiches with spicy mustard for lunch, beef stew with onions, carrots, and potatoes for dinner, and thawed out frozen raspberries over vanilla ice cream over pound cake for dessert and to prepare all of these just like your mother did while you run for two hours a day to work off all the calories! Seventh, men, when you get a computer, car, microwave oven, 3/8" drill, laser printer, etc., you get a nicely written owner's manual. Alas, you don't get one for a girl. So, you have to write your own! A first draft of such a manual is: Deborah Tannen, 'You Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation', William Morrow and Company, New York, ISBN 0-688-07822-2, 1990. This book reads well and no doubt has some good points. Alas, her path to this book started from a failed marriage! So, she studied Erving Goffman, 'The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life', Doubleday Anchor Books, New York, 1959. gets a Ph.D., becomes a professor at Georgetown, and writes her books including the one here. Good owner's manuals are tough to find! Finally, if your wife says, "I don't want to play second fiddle. I want to be equal. I want my own life.", then just before the two of you leave for her parents' house for the holidays, get a lawyer, move the financial assets, cancel her credit cards, change the locks on the house and car doors, make sure the signed pre-nup is in a safe place, etc. and get ready for a fight. azn a Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:43:32 -0400 Well duh <a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ></a> Stanley B. Manley Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:33:37 -0400 I'm a shriveled up 70 year old man and I'd just LOVE to have one of them shriveled up 40 year old women!! Stanley B. Manley Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:29:09 -0400 The nerds are going to be the bosses of the jocks in the frat houses in a few years! good advice though Sat, 30 Mar 2013 15:28:08 -0400 SOOOO many women listened to their feminist-warrior mothers and end up pursuing careers -- only to find out that they're single at the age of 30. I'm not sure it's great advice to find your husband "at" college. But it's DAMN good advice for women to start thinking about marriage at a MUCH younger age than is probably encouraged by their moms. Early 20's is not too early. dwightmannsburden Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:43:39 -0400 No, but you are. dwightmannsburden Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:35:21 -0400 Yeah right, toots. dwightmannsburden Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:29:53 -0400 Oh-oh, someone has their panties in a twist today. BFB Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:24:35 -0400 The Right Woman "When I was 14, I hoped that one day I would have a girlfriend. When I was 16 I got a girlfriend, but there was no passion, so I decided I needed a passionate girl with a zest for life. In college I dated a passionate girl, but she was too emotional. Everything was an emergency; she was a drama queen, cried all the time and threatened suicide. So I decided I needed a girl with stability. When I was 25 I found a very stable girl but she was boring. She was totally predictable and never got excited about anything. Life became so dull that I decided that I needed a girl with some excitement. When I was 28 I found an exciting girl, but I couldn't keep up with her. She rushed from one thing to another, never settling on anything. She did mad impetuous things and made me miserable as often as happy. She was great fun initially and very energetic, but directionless. So I decided to find a girl with some real ambition. When I turned 31, I found a smart ambitious girl with her feet planted firmly on the ground and married her. She was so ambitious that she divorced me and took everything I owned. I am older and wiser now, and am looking for a girl with big tits." charvo Sat, 30 Mar 2013 11:03:51 -0400 I agree. Most guys prefer women younger than they are unless they have a fetish or something. Some guys go extreme with the pedo stuff, but I've never heard a single guy say "I want to marry an ugly, old woman." I've also never heard a woman say "I want to marry a poor guy." Most guys will marry a poor girl if she's hot. Many women marry old, ugly dudes if they are rich. The fact that these women are in college allows them to see first-hand who has truly got the wealthy family and/or ability and intelligence to be rich. Not everyone is going to get a billionaire like Mark Zuckerberg, but it's better than trying your luck outside in the bar where people are lying left and right about what they really are. Honestly, there are a lot of "nerds" in college who you know are going to make big money later on, but the women prefer the jocks in the frat houses. Mr. Obvious Sat, 30 Mar 2013 10:14:48 -0400 Guess truth offends you. Let me ask you a basic question - do you tend to date men who are younger than you? If not, it stands to reason that you prefer men who are older than you. So that means your conduct agrees with the part of the claim that "[m]en regularly marry [get into relationships with] women who are younger". When you date men, do you look for a guy who earns less money than you or are you looking for a man who can provide for you, pick up the check on your dates, etc.? If so, your conduct agrees with the comment regarding education, as education historically is an accurate indicator of earnings [although that is certainly changing rapidly]. As for the intelligent part - maybe, maybe not. The trophy wife is a stereotype because it tends to happen....a lot. Brian Wright Sat, 30 Mar 2013 06:56:51 -0400 Well written. And, to corroborate: The Selfish Gene always wins. nyentrepreneur Sat, 30 Mar 2013 06:30:32 -0400 You are confused: You are assuming that the subject here is me and not Princeton girls getting married, and definitely I am not a Princeton girl! So, your comment was about me instead of about Princeton girls or my comments on them. Now that you understand the real subject of this article and thread and my comments, would you like to try again and get on topic? nyentrepreneur Sat, 30 Mar 2013 06:27:05 -0400 Yes, you have a point: Gender is irrelevant! Yup. All those centuries humans foolishly assumed that only women could be mothers while the books you have in mind clearly claim that men are fully equal and can be mothers, too! Yes, when we reach full equality, we will have only asexual reproduction! Then the world will be like you and your books want! Schmidt Sat, 30 Mar 2013 05:29:52 -0400 Look, guys, things are quite straight forward. Women are victimizing themselves to a mind boggling extent these days. They will always blame others for their problems, and it is not getting better. It is not new. Anyone who has been married for longer than just the honeymoon period knows that. When it comes to picking cherries, women are always ready, but when the (beep!) hits the fan, they say "be a man!". Having said that in a very cynical way, it is important to understand that it's just the way it works. If you hate hurting your opponent then don't play the game. Some hints for young men that are illegal to be expressed on main stream media: - wait a LOOOOONG time before you marry. You've got plenty of time. Make a career first, marry then. Remember, most women are not as supportive these days as they used to be. They want a lot of stuff, and quick! Make your money first. Otherwise, you are likely to be one miserable, beaten-down dog for a long time and end up divorced before you know it. - marry a woman that won't view you as a competitor. You notice she does when she says things like "you are traveling the world while I am being miserable back here" etc. Do some tests to find it out before you sign that piece of paper! - take a good look at your girlfriend's parents. How does her mother treat her father? Is he being respected? You know, the apple-and-the-tree thing. - talk to your girlfriend about the responsibility sharing. As a man, you just won't have the time to clean the house etc. Just to be clear: I am not recommending urging your beautiful girl to become a cleaning lady, especially if she is a well-educated professional and wants to work full-time. Both of you must agree that getting help will cost money. Hire a good household help early. If you don't have the money for that, then you either married a wrong person (won just won't take care of that) or you married too early (see the first tip) Corollary: it is a statistically proven nonsense to believe that you have married an exceptional person and that the above rules don't apply to her. Maybe you should educate yourself more, and do that before it's too late. umwhat Sat, 30 Mar 2013 05:07:04 -0400 are you high? Wow. Sat, 30 Mar 2013 03:55:25 -0400 Well this was incredibly gendered and heteronormative. Thanks for this worthless contribution- maybe you should read a couple books before offering your two-cents... nyentrepreneur Sat, 30 Mar 2013 02:11:12 -0400 Look, let's be really clear here: Guys don't have to be in a rush to get married. Even if they want to marry a super bright, drop dead gorgeous, sweeter than sugar, cuter than kittens and puppies girl 18-22. How? For a man, easy: Get a Ph.D. then get a faculty slot, as an assistant prof or even as a lecturer or post-doc. Then start dating the undergraduate women. If such a man is teaching, then some of the undergraduate women will sit in the front row in short skirts with several blouse buttons undone and then come to his office for 'help' with the course material and rub their leg against his. It happened to me, and I was already married (so did nothing). A single assistant prof can live the life a sultan. Colleges know this and try to throttle the situation, e.g., discourage dating where there is also an academic connections. Then for a given assistant prof, that leaves 99% of the girls together with all the ones met in the classes already over with. The single assistant prof is the one who should be paying $50,000 a year to be at the college! Girls 18-22 can be plenty interested in men 30, 35, even 40, especially if they have a good career going. Net, as I said, men don't have to be in a hurry. For my other post in this thread, there is some irony: I suggested that a Princeton girl look for men not just among Princeton undergraduate men but also among undergraduate men, graduate students, and professors at Princeton and also, via networking, at Columbia, Rockefeller, NYU, MIT, and Harvard, and we should also toss in Yale, Cornell, and Brown. The irony is, any girl bright enough to get into Princeton likely knew all that already and, indeed, likely applied to and got accepted at several of those other schools. Princeton girls aren't stupid, and the ones looking for their Mrs. degree will see right away not to limit their search just to Princeton undergraduate men; the OP's assumption that a Princeton girl would limit her selection to Princeton undergraduate men is not what in reality Princeton girls would do! Of course, commonly girls who go to Princeton are from families with some money. Then one reason the family might buy a pleasure boat of, say, 50' feet, is so that they can join a yacht club. Why? So their daughter can meet boys! This is a very old story, especially in the US NE: Or, remember the big houses that were built in Newport, RI. These were built for rich people to live in, right? Nope! Mostly the money and the people came from NYC. They went to Newport just for the summer. Why? Parties. Why parties? So that the daughters could meet men. Heck, the parties were thrown by the mothers and daughters, and all week while the women were getting the party arranged for the weekend, the fathers were still in NYC making money. Then maybe at the last minute a father would get in his private railroad car, have it pulled to Newport, and show up at the party, for maybe a few minutes. Net, as good as college is for being a matchmaking service, there are also other means! This raises a business opportunity: Why should a father blow $50,000 to $100,000 a year or more sending his daughter to Princeton when all she needs from Princeton is her Mrs. degree? Isn't there a better way? With the Internet? Yes, there could be, but to make it work have to set aside a LOT of really strong 'public objections' from some really strong 'norms'. The main objection is implicit in the OP: The OP was assuming, as the US norms hold, that the girl should be looking for a man 0-3 years older than she is. This is BS. She should be looking for a man 5-15 years older than she is, and be willing to consider one 20 years older. Why so old? Because a girl is ready to be good as a wife and mother years before a boy is ready to be good as a husband and father. The boy has to grow to be a man, learn about people, especially women and wives and also leadership, get a good career going, and make MONEY. Even if he has family money, usually he still needs to go through those years if only so that he will be good at handling the family money and avoid the standard story of wealth in the US -- "rags to rags in three generations". But the Internet matchmaking services, afraid of public disapproval from violating the norms, are reluctant to see girls of 18-22 'matched' with men 10-20 years older. Thus the Internet matchmaking services, that should be able to save the girl's father a few hundred thousand dollars in Princeton expenses and do better than Princeton at matchmaking, lose out. There's an opportunity here. Tiger13 Sat, 30 Mar 2013 02:07:38 -0400 Go easy on the Princeton hate, Brian.... There are a lot of really impressive people at Princeton. I hope i find a wife here-- I'd be lucky. eric458 Sat, 30 Mar 2013 00:54:17 -0400 maybe the reason why so many Princetonian men don't marry Princetonian women is because they sound like Susan. Jessie Canty Sat, 30 Mar 2013 00:48:25 -0400 "I am the mother of two sons who are both Princetonians. My older son had the good judgment and great fortune to marry a classmate of his, but he could have married anyone. My younger son is a junior and the universe of women he can marry is limitless. Men regularly marry women who are younger, less intelligent, less educated." Ohmigod. There's really some crazy shit that you really could never say unless you're a mother only to boys. The idea of having a woman like that as a mother in law would have me running the other direction. I see one of them has already snagged some poor girl... nomorebaba Sat, 30 Mar 2013 00:23:59 -0400 One thing I did notice in college tours with my son in the last year is that the ratios in big public colleges are at least 60% women/40% men. Lots of cute girls. Privates are trying to keep 50/50, but a admission officer told me it is getting harder. The guys test scores and grades in High School are slipping continually. The tour guides were normally female, all articulate, good looking, and outgoing. The guys giving tours were several notches down, consistently. If the ratios hold, there will be a LOT of smart, hardworking, and good looking girls out of college without boyfriends, or not happy with what they have. Maybe she is right, grab the good man when it is easy. I remember when the ratio was 4 to 1, 4 guys for every girl. Engineering and ag school. Not the place to find a wife. Tables are turned now. nomorebaba Sat, 30 Mar 2013 00:06:58 -0400 So, if you don't buy the Madison Ave 'feminist' image you are 'disgusting'? The 'Leave it to Beaver' world was replace by the 'have it all' world. Both were phony. Both were bought hook-line-and-sinker by 'smart women' Laura Fri, 29 Mar 2013 23:48:17 -0400 Wow. I have never seen so many ridiculous, antiquated comments in one place. Business Insider, huh? Who knew. Let me offer some counter-arguments as a reality check: -'Career women' are unhappy:' What the heck is a career woman? Pretty much everyone I know works outside the home and shares in domestic duties these days. -'Who wants to marry an old woman? If women delay marriage, they won't find husbands.' ...And? -'Women are a commodity who should get the highest status husband when their sexual market value is highest (ages 15-24).' ... I'm not even touching that one. People are too obsessed with marriage. Her advice was all well and good: 'There are a lot of smart men at Princeton. Take advantage of the chance to find someone to connect with. Fine.' But then anytime someone makes a statement like this, all these weirdos come out of the woodwork to talk about sexual market values. All feminism basically says is that marriage will not be the key to your entire life, it will not determine your worth as a person, and will not make or break your happiness. I know I plan to have interests, awesome things to do, and people I love surrounding me my entire life, no matter what. I think I won't be especially happy or especially miserable. Everyone... you're over-thinking things. back Fri, 29 Mar 2013 23:41:22 -0400 it was always an inside joke that women at Princeton were working on their MRS degree. LOL. the truth comes out. jesse73 Fri, 29 Mar 2013 23:39:50 -0400 mit/harvard/caltech men i meant not "mit and" jesse73 Fri, 29 Mar 2013 23:34:18 -0400 Her article is absurdly elitist. If she was only slightly elitist she would of suggested joining ivyplus (ivies+MIT..) but apparently MIT and smart enough to touch princeton women according to this susan lady. ianh Fri, 29 Mar 2013 22:52:42 -0400 Grace will get either a boring beta who will buy into marriage even though she gave it away for free when she was younger, hotter and tighter, or alone in a house full of cats. hhhh Fri, 29 Mar 2013 22:25:52 -0400 Hate to burst your bubble, but women want to sleep with hot looking men, too. If they aren't married to the tall, brawny guy, they're fucking him on the side. That's millions of years of evolution, sweetie. Grumpy Tiger Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:38:14 -0400 They're quite a bit worse than the boys at Rutgers, actually, for the same reason you point out in your sentence. See the comment above yours, by the male alum trashing Princeton women for their looks? We had to listen to that crap year in and year out. It never changed. Many of the rich, privileged white boys there (and they were, and still are, boys) bitched about how ugly the girls were all the time, everywhere, never mind how unattractive they were themselves. The sexual harassment in 2008 was something awful. I'd get obscenities screamed at me while I was heading to the campus store, or back to my dorm, at all hours of the day. There were some lovely men, and I'm with one, but I wouldn't characterize all Princeton boys as good catches. Meanwhile, most of the guys I met at Rutgers were sweet and handsome gentlemen. It's got nothing to do with the school. hstad6 Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:42:32 -0400 Why am I not surprised that Grace, a Dartmouth graduate, would say "Barf!" Problem with you and other women graduates is that you actually believe the b.s. indoctrination at Ivy League schools - independent thinking and common sense long left the elite colleges in our country. Grace, like one commentator said on this point, "lighten up"! The Truth and The Subtext Fri, 29 Mar 2013 19:41:54 -0400 What this article does not say is what someone, less fearful/conservative and more selective, would dispense as truthful advice: you can be less materialist, and marry someone you like to talk with. Also, the implicit "subtext" herein is that when as a woman you marry for fear and convenience, upon divorce from your smart/rich husband you will get the house, alimony etc... Good luck! jamesxxxxxx Fri, 29 Mar 2013 19:08:36 -0400 A comment. westerneduchinese Fri, 29 Mar 2013 19:02:17 -0400 Great advice (even for a guy), thanks! nyentrepreneur Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:22:38 -0400 There's a lot of rock solid, as in can't crack it, truth in what she is saying. One girl I knew, brilliant beyond belief, when she went off to college her father told her, "Whatever you do there in college, make sure you leave with a teaching certificate.". Or an RN. And of course an Mrs. Her father had some wisdom. To Sandberg, Steinum, and Friedan, sorry 'bout that. It's not nice to try to fool Mother Nature; Darwin will win this one. And, for a girl smart enough to get into Princeton, there really are some good uses for those gifts. First, you can help your husband. Likely he will be in some technical field or finance and not have even 10% of your insight into people and personality. So, at parties, meetings, etc., afterward you can tell him the 'sub-text', what was really going on, along with what you heard in the distaff gossip channels. Second, you will no doubt be much better than he is in small scale, in-person, local politics, and there you can help him. As you help him, you help the marriage and family and, thus, yourself and your children. Next there is plenty for you to do as a mother: In your childrens' early years you are necessarily primarily responsible for their 'development' -- emotional, ethical, verbal, artistic, psychological, social, physical, athletic, literary, mathematical, rational, and scientific. You are the main way your children can learn early instead of later or never about people, personality, leadership, politics, money, business, love, marriage, and home. You are their first source of emotional connection with another person and affection and examples of sympathy, empathy, and understanding the emotions, thoughts, and reactions of others. Heck, just for fun, there's now a good, full 'Tosca' on YouTube -- watch it with your children, scene by scene, pick out the themes on piano, learn some Italian, see a lot that is traditional about people, understand some drama, etc. Then move on to 'The Ring' where there is also a nice explanation on YouTube! Big stuff. Much to do in good motherhood. And as a Princeton girl, you will be able to do more, that is, to continue to lead the development of your children, maybe just home school them, maybe help them get into Princeton, well into their college educations and, really, to help them even later much as you helped your husband. And you can help with your grandchildren. Net: You can be one very strong limb on the tree. But in part the article was not correct: Girls develop socially much, MUCH faster than boys. So, it will always be tough for a girl to have enough respect for her husband if they are the same age and, thus, she is always some steps ahead of him socially, and such lack of respect can be fatal crack in the marriage that hurts everyone. So, really the girl should be >= 4 years younger than the boy. So, right, that suggests that maybe the girl should get her Mrs, in her freshman year -- wouldn't be the first time. Besides, that you got into Princeton means that you don't much need an ordinary college education anyway -- basically you've already been there, done that, before you were accepted. Princeton's not taking a risk on you since you deserved a Bachelor's degree the day you were accepted! But there are some better alternatives: Notice that Princeton has a graduate school. Also it's not far from Columbia, Rockefeller, and NYU, each of which has a graduate school. So there are graduate programs in business, engineering, finance, and more. E.g., just at Princeton, look at E. Cinlar's group and also various departments of applied science and engineering. At Columbia, of course Karatzas. At Courant, Avellaneda. Then use 'networking' to follow from Princeton to Boston and the graduate programs at MIT and Harvard. And, don't forget the professors, at least the ones who take money seriously. And in the networking, of course follow that to Wall Street or the NYC startup community. Of course also there are the boys who want to get into national US politics, and there are leads to them at Princeton. The world needs more great mommies! Good luck! coolrepublica Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:00:54 -0400 a lot of men want smart wives, but most really want hot wives. Women want smart and rich guys. Men and women are both F^#%# in their own special way. ianh Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:57:21 -0400 Liz, I think you need to start acquiring cats. coolrepublica Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:56:42 -0400 I am a woman and I am as independent as they come. I am a wife and a mother and there is nothing wrong with it. What is wrong is people making women who chose to just be wives feel bad about their choices. If you can do both do both. If you want to be a mother and a wife and your husband won't nag you about it, than do that. It took me a while to realize it, but being a mother is the single most important than a woman can do for the world, short of curing cancer and end world famine. You are helping to keep the human race alive. That is a freaking big deal. coolrepublica Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:53:39 -0400 As a woman I say take her advice. So many women have these crazy wish list that they have and they go out looking for that 1 in 7 billion man that will fufill all their needs. Get over yourself. Find the person that won't get on your freaking nerve, is willing to work for a living, and thinks you are beautiful with arm pit hair and the rest WILL take care of itself. So marry before graduation is not bad advice. You will get out of school have a kids, by the time they are old enough to be out of the way your career would be on it's way up. If you want to catch a man, then follow her advice. If you want to be self important and alone than call her all of names and sleep well and alone at night. Liz Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:50:33 -0400 Disgusting. it's sad that women are still doing this to other women. Women can be so much more than just wives and mothers these days...they just need to stop listening to culturally backwards social conservatives. The comments on this article, clearly written by men are similarly disgusting. golfcrackerjack Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:08:50 -0400 The truth uttered by someone who knows is no less likely to be revered by those who are told "how smart" they are, when in reality they are chumps to the leftist cabal that seeks to usurp any and all traditions as if traditions of themselves are somehow universally evil, racist or stupid. Perhaps the goal is to make all these "smart women" into Lesbians instead. Seriously, could efforts to make that "team" larger be part of the left's reactionary inertia on this and all other societal realities that conflict with their increasingly closed-minded aspirational world view? Can we somehow make it green? ianh Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:00:52 -0400 For men, hotness is much more important than intellect. You can't fight a million years of evolution, sweetie. So Dumb Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:59:12 -0400 She makes a good point, feminism notwithstanding. However, these days many intelligent women have no problem dating and even marrying and breeding with male eyecandy, even if they're intellectually inferior. We all know looks are a better determinant of success than intellect. We all, I'm sure, also know of at least a few goodlooking guys who will date a smart sugar momma in a heartbeat. Chris Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:49:38 -0400 LOL She's awesome. She makes sense, but I'm guessing there are a lot of feminists who are upset with her. shall7070 Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:04:33 -0400 lighten up, Grace Brian M Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:01:06 -0400 Who says that students at Princeton (or any other college) are really that intelligent anyways. Most people that I run into that earned a college degree in the past 10+/- years are too self absorbed to have acquired any real (useful) knowledge. Let's face it, this is an article about WASP children who probably were accepted to (insert name of Ivy here) just because of legacy, money, connections, or a combination of all three. There is a need to continue believing that they are truly better than everyone else. I can tell you that I attended schools with many of these so called "golden children", and they only thing I found was that they tended to be way into partying, and could count on their parents to get them out (or in) any situation they wanted. Reading this article helps the average person understand why the average WASP middle aged person, is quite possibly the most miserable person around. God, we are pathetic. JDD Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:59:29 -0400 Good points about why many PU women aren't great looking. Same goes for other top tier schools. QE4 Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:56:41 -0400 As a fellow Ivy Leauger, I can tell you personally this is the problem with Princeton. Their egos are so big and they act like they are better than Harvard, Yale or UPenn grads. Princeton women graduates should marry anyone else but a Princeton guy graduate. 1) Her non-PU grad guy can keep her more grounded in reality so she won't float away with her ego once she gets into the "real" world. 2) A "less smart guy" may actually worship her more because she is so much smarter rather than trying to compete with her or talk down to her for the rest of her life like a Princeton guy would. Nobody Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:42:53 -0400 What's the with "barf" subtitle? The reverse is true for men too. After graduation you won't meet nearly as many young, single, intelligent, open-minded women. Just finding someone with a compatible vocabulary is a big deal for both sexes. Both sexes need to communicate to make a relationship work. Women are just as superficial when it comes to age and physical appearance, sexual attraction. If I had sons I'll tell them to consider marriage even after graduating high school, there's many advantages if you go that route. (Why are so many people looking up their high school sweetheart on Facebook?) BI employees point of view is skewed, hanging out in NYC, the post-college afterparty where the age range is very narrow--unmarried grads move there wide-eyed with delirious dreams, soon to realize it's dirty and stressful, chews you up and spits you out. Of course there are exceptions but try to see the big picture. benderman Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:27:48 -0400 But that is what she wants, obnoxious marrying obnoxious. I always tell my son the odds get more in his favor every year older he gets. I would say woman have the advantage in dating till around 25 then it switches to men. By the time a woman is 40 if the guy isn’t on probation or using needle drugs he is the crèam of the available crop. Guffster Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:18:02 -0400 "Get one while you're hot" is very good advice. Beside, that's when men are at their dummest too. All they can think about is.....umm....not Garfield, but close. Doodly Dood Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:15:47 -0400 Interesting and valueless. "Worthy" of her? Who is she worthy of? If her notion of marriage is merely "worthiness" and income producing THEN gay marriage does not diminish hetero marriage. (because marriage no longer has any meaning) usallday Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:03:46 -0400 Why "barf"? Jealous? You're a joke of a blogger, and thats saying something. Gubblebum Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:59:28 -0400 ...both the article and the responses to it are so unnecessarily inflamatory and rhetorically charged. The whole point of her article is "If you value intelligence in a spouse, and want to get married at some point, you are in the highest concentration of intelligence you will find in your life, so you are better off finding someone to marry soon." In itself, there are probably not many people who can disagree with the truth of her statement (whether or not you value intelligence in a spouse or want to get married, the logic is self-explanatory). ...what I find annoying about her article is why she even directs this towards women specifically? Don't men seek intelligent wives? If a man wants an intelligent wife, wouldn't he be better off looking in college as well? She takes universal advice ("if you desire a significant other with trait x, then seek a place where x is concentrated.") and somehow manages to be offputting to everyone. naro Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:53:25 -0400 The old lady thinks that Princeton men are top of the line. I hate to disabuse her of that notion. Princeton men are no better or worse then any other students. They are perhaps more pretentious, egotistical, and obnoxious about their drummed in feeling of superiority. But is is truly bull crap. Tiger Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:50:07 -0400 As a male Princeton alum, I have to say she is totally right. Not sure about the male/female ratio now but when I was there it was like 57/43. And the number of particularly attractive women you could count on one or maybe two hands. There were exponentially more good-looking guys, many of whom ended up marrying not very attractive classmates. No way those women would have done as well if they waited to marry when they did not have such a huge captive audience. The reality is if a girl is super attractive, she will probably not end up working as hard in high school for various reasons (lots of attention, getting most of what she wants just by smiling, etc.) whereas even if a guy is very attractive, he realizes he still needs to be successful to attract women. The girl realizes she only has to be hot to attract men so why work so hard? Thus very few attractive women end up at places like Princeton. Jack Burton Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:45:54 -0400 I actually love this advice. Not being a woman, I can only look at this from a male perspective. I find it interesting that she assumes that every woman who is smart, MUST have a male companion equal to or greater in intelligence. Though, as all of us know, intelligence comes in many forms. But we get what she means. A woman looking for career success, family success and happiness all at the same time is setting herself up for a hell of a fall. Taking my daughter to her orientation day at university, I was quickly stuck by how many more females were there than males, and looking over the males, I found many to be hopeless cases as far as being attractive to any young woman. So right from the start I could see that husband hunting was going to be less that a bright prospect at this college. Most of these elite women who write about having it all are pretty far from the norm out there. These women are all young, very pretty, smart, educated, witty and headed for great careers. Having all this, how can these bright stars ever find a man to measure up to their high status. So for these elite women of such attributes, this advice may be the best. To get a man capable of living up to you, then you better grab someone in an upper class when you are still a young co-ed. Seriously, your social circle is going to go downhill after graduation. I see this with girls in my family. I had one daughter who had her big chance, being courted by a Harvard Law Student whose family firm was going to hire him when he passed the bar, she had the looks to nail him down firm. The the lure of parties and dating men at a whim overpowered the common sense of accepting this guy, who was good looking by any standard. I think she was in such a power position at age 19 and being a dream to look at, along with the brains and wit that attract really smart men. She just had it too good, and didn't want to tie herself down in her prime. Needless to say, she waited, and had one failed marriage with a US army soldier who deployed to war during their marriage. That feel apart when he came home. Now more time had passed, and I can tell you, she no longer had Harvard Lawyers calling her up, they were calling up the 19 year old co-ed, she one had been. All in all she married a decent man her second time around. She blessed me with a grand son recently, and her husband and I hunt and fish together a lot. But the chance for the upper class live was gone by the time she got out of school, now it is lower middle class, and a work a day world for her. If you are aiming for the stars as a woman, better grab that boy headed for the elites before you get out of college. If you want the odds in your favor, then 19-21 is a better time to husband hunt than 25-30. You can book that remark! Chris D Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:33:41 -0400 Thats funny, I bet she's divorced thats why she sounds so bitter. she's clearly never had a multiple orgasm evening with a real man, let alone the poor bastard who ended up marrying her and , if i was a betting man, left her. So much for intellect..... BFrankel Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:27:32 -0400 Reasonable advice. If you want to have kids, you are better off having them early. It's less likely kids will interfere with a career, if the kids are already in school and semi-independent. Who wants to marry a shriveled up 40-year-old woman anyways? jdp Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:23:23 -0400 Yum. <a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" ></a>