America and Russia

Welcome to Moscow

Paranoid, mischievous and heading in the wrong direction, Russia is an awkward prospect for Barack Obama

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To much useless talk on Chinese invading Siberia. Do you think they’ll come voluntarily? Stalin did not manage to populate it by force exiling political convicts but left some nice accommodation that is not in use today and stands idle. He would have been very pleased and at the same time surprised at the new Siberian pioneers. The Chinese can use those vast areas and till the immense Siberian land. One must have Russian stamina to survive Siberian subzero temperatures. Even global warming won’t help much. You write about Siberia as some sort of a wonderland. In a way it is. Surprisingly, the posters here started to relish Siberia that much. You can join the Chinese in their efforts to populate permafrost. I’d like to warn you that those subzero temperatures drop down to minus 50-60 and the lowest record world’s temperature was registered in Siberia -70C. Very arable and fertile lands to grow rice. I believe one winter spent in Siberia would be very detrimental to the Chinese health and we’ll witness big exodus of those who survive. Anyway, invitation is open to populate free Gulag areas not only to the Chinese but to any volunteers from this forum as well as to the journalists from the Economist who write incredible, fantabulous stories on Russia and Siberia in particular and about great life there. Putin will give a hand to start the Economist office in Verkhoyansk – the Capital of Permafrost. Didomyk if you like and cherish my idea since you wrote much lately on Siberia, I can put a word for you and you set up a brunch of your DIDO office to watch the Chinese.

George V



to Nicholas Folkes:
Come on man, what's with you? Europe defeated the Ottoman Empire once and for all in 1683 when joined armies of European states won the battle and withstood the siege of Vienna. After that Turks' might had been eroded significantly, and Russia had had nothing to do with it. Period.


All of the rants on here about the inevitability of Russo-Chinese conflict are really amusing. Fears of a mass Chinese migration into Siberia, in particular, are just laughable. Northern China bordered Siberia for millennia, and yet native Chinese population there is still relatively minuscule. Why? The same reason all those teeming Americans aren't running over the border into Canada - Siberia's a damn cold place. Canada by the way is even more sparsely populated than Russia, but similar in size - 30 million v. 142 million. As far as demography is concerned, I would agree that the current scenarios for Russia are pretty dire. However, the recent demographic trends were mostly due to the economic crisis of the 90s and are beginning to stabilize. China for that matter, also has a below replacement birthrate (currently 1.72). So my guess is that rather than migrating to Siberia, to till the permafrost, the next generation of Chinese is more likely to migrate to their own cities where the pay (and the weather) are far better than in Siberia.

Guy Shaw

@Didomyk - you should have been invited to write this article. You seem to have more intelligence than the economist editor panel!


Nickolas wrote:"Russia has a smaller population than China but Russia would still flog China in a war. It is the size of the fight in the dog that determines the winner."

Your dreams are naive. China's 1,300 million, soon to become 1,500 million, compared to Russia's 138 mill. soon to be 100 million of which 25% are non-Russians, who will not sacrifice their lives and 50% who are to preoccupied just surviving in their delapitated housing on subsistence pensions. Get real one does not need aircraft cariers in Siberia. Foot soldiers will do.

Guy Shaw

The problem is Russia and Russians are under the illusion that they are living in Svoiet era, and expect to be treated as superpower.

Russia wouldn't matter much in world affairs, and they are getting what they truly deserve.

US and to a lesser extent China will influence the world for the next 2 to 3 deacades. All this talk of BRIC, rise of China is all BS.

George V

Ulrich312,I agree; Dostoyevsky is a great author and I admire him as much the other great Russian writers.


I was reading the article, and can say that some of this is true. The true is growing nationalism among russian civilians that is biased by the government, the true is lack of good management and therefore oil and gas based economy. The true is Ukraine and Georgia not to be ready to be either in NATO or in EU. However Author seems to forget or just not to mention that America on the other side should have lose it's nuclear arms according to the agreements signed in times of old soviet-era. And the fact of Nazi actions of Georgian and other ex-russian maides commited against the even smaller nations, that seek for russian help. america dont bother of them because there are no oil or something that may be in amrica's interest, at least in times of Bush's Administration.

I'm not saying America or West is bad, we all just need to open our eyes to both sides of a coin.

I wish everyone luck.


Nicholas Folkes:
First of all, I am not a socialist, secondly your "pea head" personal insults are enough for me to know that there is no getting through to your nationalism. Russia also attacked Poland if you don't know. You have weird grasp of history, there was no Germany at the time of the Huns, nor were there any Russian troops assisting at the gates of Vienna. The only debt to be paid is that people like Peter the great, managed to get their ideas from the West.

I suggest you start learning your mandarin, you will need it.





Nicholas Folkes:
You are thinking like Russians did 100 years ago before the war with Japan. Japan, like China now, was rapidly modernising, while Russia was afflicted with all kind of internal problems. Japan won the war.

Perhaps the Napoleon and Hitler invasions might fill Russians with confidence, but remember that Russia has been conquered before from the East. Russia needs better relations with China, and needs to work on improving its own government and support more democracy in China, otherwise Russia is in big trouble.


George V:
I am just curious why you left out Dostoyevsky ? Surely he is one of the most famous Russian writers ?

Some people have asked why China is being discussed here, it probably is because the US-Russia relations are not that important anymore, both nations are yearning for their cold war glory days. The real relation that matters is China-Russia, the SCO or Bric alliances, do not seem like they really will lead to genuine friendship. Both China and Russia have regimes that easily appeal to nationalist tendencies, can anybody not see how Siberia is going to become the big issue, think outside your politically correct world, this needs to be discussed.

As for the US, the only real issue is the the nuclear weapons control, even NATO expansion does not seem important, because NATO itself is increasingly becoming irrelevant.

Nicholas Folkes


"The argument here is you can forget about inventing scenarios of Chinese invading Russia for territorial gain. (Russia on the other hand may allow Chinese immigration to help develop her sparsely populated lands.) Russia on account of her small population has no military capability to invade China. On the same grounds no Asian neighbor can threaten China militarily, not even India. Only the US presents a credible military threat, a threat that is losing potency by the year. China therefore enjoys excellent security with minimal expenditure on defense".

Last year the Russian Duma brought in new legislation to ban foreigners (aimed at Chinese) to own or work in retial stores. These Chinese were bringing in cheap labour and undercutting Russians, doesn't it sound familiar to what is going on in the West? At least the Russkis had the balls to react and protect their people against the huddled masses of China.

Russis's militay hardware is far superior to China's popguns. China does not even have an aircraft carrier until recently, China bought 2nd hand Russian aircraft carriers. The Chinese have copied the Russian T-tanks, Kalasnikov rifle, Russian missile technology, Russian space technology, nuclear generation and also anti-misslle technology. None of China's military technology is homegrown but copied from Russian designs and brains or bought straight form the Russkis. Recently the Russians have withdrawn sale of sensitive technology to Chinese Communist Govt.

Russia has a smaller population than China but Russia would still flog China in a war. It is the size of the fight in the dog that determines the winner. Remember the British Empire? Small nation, small population but still managed to rule India, South east Asia, half of Africa, Oceania and also China. When the British invaded the Chinese didn't even have guns, you were so far behind. China has lots of people but is docile and slow to move.

The Russkis are a tough bunch and don't need the Chinese to develop Siberia. Remember, China is still a much poorer nation per capita than Russia. Chinese are looking for work in Russia not the other way around. The only thing the Chinese would develop in Siberia is the heroin trade, prostitution, low wages and social problems.

When the Russians went to China they built the railways, Harbin, parts of Shanghai, schools, hospitals etc etc. This is building not the Chinese way which is just take and take, there is a difference. There were 2 million Russians in China between 1917 to 1949 and they contributed alot to China's development. China would contribute nothing to Siberia's development. The Chinese aren't tough enough to survive the winters.

Nicholas Folkes


"It doesn't matter who is the tyrant, an Georgian (Stalin) or an Austrian (Hitler), but what really matters is a nation that eagerly chooses to follow their war-criminal fuhrer - Germans, or, as in the Soviet Union, allows evil system to gag and enslave it - Russians".

Oh it does matter becuase the Germans started both world wars and the Georgian Butcher murdered millions of innocent people. Then we have the Marxists; Trotsky and Lenin both swayed by an untried foreign ideology called Communism. It does matter you goat herder.

You are lucky the the Russian Slavs contained the Tatars and Turks becuase you would probably be speaking a Turkic language instead.


Its a shame that such a prestigious magazine with many excellent articles is accomodating articles like this. With unilateral explanations of complicated events it tries to get in conclusions that make some people feel comfortable about their views.Not enlightening at all about the subject and definetely not the kind of article that has the purpose of presenting facts and let you think.


Attn Mr. Griboyedov

Put it (not in :) otherwise - for example instead of Russia, take UK or USA - with their colonial wars and nuke usage against non-combatants... You'll see that Russian is not so bad on the list and some other countries need to be contained NOW like the USSR before. For China Russia can as well suggest to occupy Australia (the climate is much better than of Syberia :) because we sell to Chinese everything they need - so why to risk with fight with nuclear power?


Russia's support is paramount for America in light of growing provocation by North Korea. True, things are very complex inside russia but we need to start somewhere and let's have faith on Obama to steer America and world towards peace.



George V

Politics stink everywhere and anywhere. Politics is the the second oldest occupation and has a lot of resemblance with the first oldest profession. As Harry Truman stated: " As a president I feel like being a piano player in a brothel."


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