To put dd's names down for Scouts - DH thinks they are a "psuedo militaristic organisation that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

(335 Posts)
morningpaper Tue 08-May-07 18:44:36

Well I thought that the Brownies and Scouts were okay but DH has objected that I have put their names down because they are "psuedo militaristic organisations that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

I told him they are probably full of working class Muslim eco-warrier children but he says no.


oldernowiser Mon 28-Jun-10 17:01:27

To be honest, getting a bit of peace usually beats any unease about this sort of thing for me

SanctiMoanyArse Mon 28-Jun-10 13:04:19

I think it's great you love qwoodies springy; i;ve heard of them on here but never encountered them in RL.

hopwever as an ex Guider I would point out that I am in no way anything other than leftie liberal PMSL- riv knows me anyway in RL a little bit, but those who know me as Peachy will probably agree that me and right wiong army brainwashing doesn't exactly marrry (I know that was someone else- amde me both grin and sad though- why don't we have a [weep] emoticon?)

OTOH the lady I took over from. Well. I think she's ;politically left win but conservative with a small c doesn't even begin to sum it up! Lots and lots of full on Christianity focus, IYKWIM. 100% focussed on teh faith origins of teh movement rather than the diversity we have now.

Jamieandhismagictorch Sun 27-Jun-10 13:44:36

Springy - It think we feel equally passionate ... For me, it's deffo because his school is quite "right on", and yet with an undercurrent of competitiveness which doesn't suit him. He has found real friendship and gentle challenges at Cubs

< misty eyed >

SpringHeeledJack Sun 27-Jun-10 12:28:20

Riven soz- I didn't express that very well

I didn't mean that they were being brainwashed in scouts/guides/what have you-was just responding to someone being hmm about Woodies upthread

-can't remember who or what tho

...can't look either. Tooo distressing

[brainwashed thro repeated and tuneless singing of Woodcraft Friendship Song grin]

piscesmoon Sun 27-Jun-10 09:34:58

A group is only as good as it's leaders. The real problem is getting enough leaders-not helped by the idiots who think anyone wanting to help the youth of today is a pervert.

Onajourney Sun 27-Jun-10 08:53:29

You are right seeker, maybe this was just a crap group, we are going to try another one in September and see how he gets on there.

seeker Sun 27-Jun-10 08:23:33

You should complain about that, Onajourney - completley inappropriate.

However, I always take with a pinch of salt any time a child says something is "boring". In my experience, this usually means "there is no screen involved". It often takes a while for kids to realize that Scouts is fun.

Disclaimer: - there are crap Scout troops like any other organization - try another one.

Onajourney Sun 27-Jun-10 08:07:59

My ds went a few times and hated it because it was so boring. They did nothing but colouring or running around madly and all the guy in charge did was shout! I was a bit hmm with the flag/queen bit too.

I think our local Brownies is a secret Army training camp though! Some of the Mum's have got really involved with sending boxes to soldiers abroad (a nice thing) but the have been send dvd's showing battle and t shirts with blood on from the soldiers and they have shown these to the kids !! I was shocked to hear one Mum tell me how her soldier was "killing all the baddies in Iraq" this was in front of the children and they went "yeah!"

Maybe it's just me but I found that a bit much.

sarah293 Sun 27-Jun-10 06:02:27

I dont think they are being brainwashed in scouts either Jack. The queen doesn't come take their souls. We have recorded dd's pledge on her VOCA to say in a couple of weeks. She has no idea who the queen is and I reckon is pretty hazy on god.

SpringHeeledJack Sat 26-Jun-10 23:41:39

can't read whole of thread- am [huff] about Woodies getting a kicking!

My kids love Woodcraft. They're really diverse/inclusive- they spend a lot of time doing outreach work ie going out to parks and estates and other places where kids hang out in the holidays and getting them to come and play "cooperative games" grin

I really really love Woodcraft. I'm a lefty. I fully accept that in time my kids may not be lefties- that's up to them. But in the meantime they're not being brainwashed- just playing lots of rough lairy fun games in a draughty shed. And the kids are sooooo nice to each other it's unbelieveable- or at least it would be for me if I hadn't seen it meself...

shockers Sat 26-Jun-10 23:25:43

I loved Brownies, Guides and Rangers. Most of my memories revolve around camping and having a lot of fun with my friends.I have very vague memories of going to church parade and singing the national anthem, but that was just stuff we did and put up with... the camping was the stuff we wanted to dogrin

soopermum1 Sat 26-Jun-10 23:08:08

DS is in Beavers and there's a reference to God in what they say, but no mention of the Queen. God reference is fine (he goes to Catholic school) and even the Queen bit wouldn't worry me too much. There's folks out there pledging their loyalty to Bin Laden on a daily basis, so I think the Queen's pretty tame, in comparison.

Bloke at work's wife is a Guide leader and went on camp with the girls. I asked him what they did and apparently they stayed up late and all giggled about boys. Clubs like these are good ways of introducing kids to mentors, particularly teens, when they stop listening to their own parents. I'd be pretty happy that my teen girl has a Guide leader a bit older, but not old as such, and sensible, to help guide (excuse the pun) them along in life.

piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 19:55:21

Rockbird summed up the entire thread, earlier, in one sentence:

'It's so sad that children are being denied so much because their parents are paranoid loons'

I think that I will give up posting-there is nothing more to add to that sentence. Sadly the DCs are the losers.

(I am never sure why people think that leftish views are thought liberal when anyone who lets strong personal * views* limit someone else's life experiences is narrow minded IMO-whatever the views). The truly liberal allow their DCs to come to their own conclusions.They also trust their DCs and put up with the fact that they may not think the same.

Jamieandhismagictorch Sat 26-Jun-10 17:44:35

As I said earlier in the thread - I am the atheist - I am leaving my DSs to make up their own minds. In any case, the oath-swearing is a very small part of something which has been great for my sons

sarah293 Sat 26-Jun-10 16:58:50

quite seeker. Like I said, dd's troop leaders are women. Not that it matters.

piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 15:38:31

'strange man' even!

piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 15:37:35

Not only is it stupid it is damaging. It stops potential leaders coming forward. The attitude also stops primary schools getting male teachers-especially in the early years-where there is a crying need. Anyone who comes up with it-even as a joke should be forced to do community service!! It is always made by the sort of person who never volunteers and so can't see why a lot of people want to 'put things back'.

Most of the leaders tend to come through as fathers of DCs who want to join. As someone said earlier, as a 36 week pregnant Cub leader-they are a very starange man!!!

seeker Sat 26-Jun-10 15:27:50

Also Scouts do Attract Strange Men As Leaders

I know you will all howl me down and say that your scout leader is a marvellous gentle chap and your brother is a scout leader and wouldn't hurt a fly.... but it won't change the bare cold fact that Scouts do attract dodgy men much like boys boarding prep schools do."

Oh ffs!!! PROVE IT! Oh, and by proof, I mean actual proof, not tittle tattle or vicious gossip.

There was some moron on here a while ago who wouldn't let her son join the Scouts because all the leaders were perverts. One of the most stupid posts I have ever read, and by God, I've read some stupid ones.

staranise Sat 26-Jun-10 15:23:53

I was a Brownie and a Guide, and I consider myself to be an atheist and a republican (like my parents).

DD goes to Beavers, absolutely loves it (and she's a shy child who doesn't take easily to new activities). She's there right now on a fun day, five hours, two quid, food included. Fantastic.

And around here, it's by far one of the less class-ridden activities available, if only because it's by far one of the cheapest. And it's so laid-back compared with the likes of ballet, tennis/swimming lessons etc.

I think the volunteers who give up their time to run it deserve a medal (and not just a badge).

piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 15:15:13

I would challenge you to find any organisation that will take your DC away for 10 days and give them an amazing range of activities, and give them a seriously good time, for such a cheap price!

I can tell you, as in interviewer of scout leaders-reading between the lines,that many of the leaders feel the same as OP. The movement has a history, it would be a shame to deny that just because it doesn't match up with many beliefs of many today. The Scout movement has moved on! I doubt whether a Scout from 1934 would recognise much today.

seeker Sat 26-Jun-10 15:07:58

I agree with theo OP, BUT my children have to most wonderful time at Cubs and Sea Scouts. thye spend very little time in recreating Hitler Youth rallies, and huge amounts of time sailing boats, baking apple pies in oil drums, playing murder in the dark in the woods, toasting marshmallows, making bivouacs and sleeping in them, giggling, learning stuff, forgetting to worry about hair straighness, and just generally having a seriously fantastic time. And all for 2 quid.

But check what the troop you're thinking about does - the range of activities depends a lot on the location and the leader.

piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 15:00:42

'they're in my personal axis of evil list'

Once again you are not the one joining! Is it on your DC's evil list? They are the one to decide whether to join or not. It is all quite plain, they don't hide it,-take it or leave it but don't try to change it to suit you. Start your own group-hire a hall.Don't knock those who are providing something that is very popular.

My DCs have made up their own mind on whether there is a God or not-it isn't 'Mummy has told me there is a God-mummy must be right'!!! The Scout one is happy with the 'tradition' of it. DS2 has it on his evil list and DS3 hasn't said-but he won't go to church. I believe in God-why on earth do they have to follow me?!

Giving birth doesn't give you the right to tell your DC what to believe. You are privileged to have them for a very short time-they are not a possession.

It may be on your 'evil' list but that should have nothing to do with whether they join-unless they have decided it is on their 'evil list'-hopefully for a better reason than 'my mummy says so'!

TiggyD Sat 26-Jun-10 14:42:46

Just checked and you do have to swear an oath to god/Allah/deity of choice.

You are not allowed to be a scout and an atheist. (unless you lie of course)

thirdname Sat 26-Jun-10 14:24:27

my dc go to other places to have fun, without god/uniform/queen stuff, but the excuse I give dc is that on that particualr eveing I'm at work so sorry they really can't go grin.
btw sister+family/my dad are great fans of scouting so not sure what paretns have to do wit it...

sarah293 Sat 26-Jun-10 14:17:15

I don't think you do. dd has no belief at all as far as I know. She also has no idea who the Queen is
She goes to have fun.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion


Register now