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12:00 AM
Ugh... what is it with bad puns in burniation meta posts?
@Dharman I dunno that we're unhappy with it. He's a ninja moderator. If he wants to be unorthodox and burn a whole tag by himself, more power to him
I just didn't want him thinking nobody in here does burninations anymore
@Machavity your election meddling comment is hilarious. I hope it doesn't get you in trouble.
@IanCampbell Nah. It's a sideways political jab at the US. If anything, I expect the CMs might appreciate more for that reason
@IanCampbell link?
@Machavity Yeah, but I wanted to do some too
Haha 🤣
2 hours later…
3 hours later…
1 hour later…
6:04 AM
Hmm, I just noticed that you can downvote a post twice.
@10Rep You should not be able to do that.
How did you manage to do that?
@CodyGray What I mean is when you downvote an answer normally, and then flag it as spam.
it downvotes twice.
@10Rep Maybe someone else downvoted that answer too
Yes, spam and rude/abusive flags cast an automatic downvote. That downvote isn't actually from you, it's from the Community user. These downvotes automatically get removed if the spam/abusive flags get cleared or declined by a moderator.
6:06 AM
Your votes are your own, and won't be removed regardless of how the post is treated by a moderator.
@CodyGray Ok thanks.
@AlonEitan I would write "Needs MCVE + more detail", but I agree the post is closable.
I'm not sure if it's even a code-related issue... In some cases there could be more than one reason to close the question :)
I commented and asked for more details just to be sure
6:54 AM
Anyone knows if smoke detector detected this answer as SPAM?
We only reviewing posts on SO in this room
didnt notice, thanks for the info
NP :)
@bradbury9 MS does not appear to have detected that post. For sites other than SO, please use the Charcoal HQ room
7:02 AM
@CodyGray should we wait for OP to edit that last SD post or can we delete it? It seems more like spam than a real question.
@Nick Don't look now, but I already deleted it.
You're just too speedy! :-)
That's why SD deleted its announcement.
Definitely a tough call on the FP/TP. As you said, benefit of the doubt (until they do it again!)
I sensed another Nick being pinged
7:09 AM
@Nick I just went to the Election room for the same reason...
There's a disturbance in the force...
7:35 AM
@E_net4likesmanythings Thoughts on whether that would be suitable for SE.SE? Seems like a whiteboard-style question.
@CodyGray By recommendation of SE.SE, I do not usually suggest that site to questions which are deemed too broad here.
It's only too broad because it's outside the scope of SO.
Just following these guidelines: "If you'd close a question on Stack Overflow for one of these reasons (too broad etc.), don't suggest posting it here on Software Engineering.SE."
I'm inclined to agree with Cody, I think it's answerable, though I don't know SE.SE very well. I did a bit of searching for similar questions and found softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/359512/…, which seems to have been well-received
7:51 AM
Even I cannot figure out the scope of SE.SE.
Related: I am amused, apparently the "detect SO posters recommending SE.SE" bot detects my "why 'is it possible to ____?' is a bad question" canned comment because it links to Meta.SE.SE, and their detection apparently doesn't exempt that for some reason.
If only you got a dollar for every time you found a regex bug...
8:08 AM
Is this the sort of question that makes sense for SE.SE? Trying to get a handle on the scope.
@RyanM That one might be too broad, simply because it's asking too many different questions in one.
But I am not the right person to ask about their scope.
You need Robert Harvey or someone else who is active there.
@RyanM I'd think it might be too broad, all 3 also appear to be opinion based, but like Cody, I'm not the right person to ask
If not Nick, what about Nick?
(Nope. Doesn't even have an account there. :-))
I'm thinking @FoxyNick and @100KNick will clear all confusion..
eevee tho :eyes:
8:17 AM
Well I do like foxes...
Who doesn't like foxes?
Oh, that's right: chickens.
I think @100KNick is better than @PinkSquareNick, so..
@CodyGray Yeah, they love em
Gets them out of those cages :p
I do!
8:19 AM
Yeah, they scream
@Nick That's what you think >~>
@Zoe As a Norwegian... you should be able to provide a translation of what the fox says for us :p
I actually haven't heard a fox irl. I've seen a couple, but never up close
Ohh.. I starting to hope not enough users nominate :)
How close do you have to be to hear them?
8:27 AM
@CodyGray Not close at all if they're "canoodling"
@CodyGray Not very.. I think it's like rabbits. When you hear them scream, they in a lot of pain.
iDunno, but being inside doesn't help :p
What's it like inside of a fox?
I'm sure we can arrange for a few to eat you if you wanna find out :p
Some of them have a tune going in their head all day long.. 🎵 I'm too foxy for my scarf 🎵
8:29 AM
@Scratte Right, that's enough Fred
I've not heard that song
@CodyGray really?
(potential NSFW?)
It wasn't about either scarves or foxes, hence my confusion.
Side note, I forgot how awful that song is
yeah, you did xd
8:33 AM
See.. foxes even know what I'm thinking when I'm thinking about what foxes are thinking..
That song came out in 2006? I thought it was a couple of years before that.
Okay, no. It came out in 1991.
So I don't know what that YouTube video title is talking about.
2006 is the year the mix is from
But...it's called the "original mix". Wouldn't the original mix be...the original version?
The only good thing about looking that up is that it linked me to fatboy slim's weapon of choice with christopher walken's fantastic dancing
@CodyGray no, it's an original mix made by the people who made the original versiono
8:38 AM
The original mix cannot be the original version, I'd think.. it's just the first "mix".
Mixes are often the original version!
@MartijnPieters How is this lacking debugging details?
@Daniil I suspect "link to the problem" is part of the problem.
@Daniil What's the error?
I also don't know what "NZEC" is. Do you? Maybe you can improve the question.
8:43 AM
@CodyGray Non-zero exit code, i.e. an error
Ugh, really?
@CodyGray I probably could but I don't want to wait 5 hours till the suggested edit is approved
@Nick Please tell me you just made that up
@CodyGray I s### you not, that is what it means
8:44 AM
Ninja Zebras Eat Corn
Why do people shorten things in a Question?!?.. I once saw a Question with s.o.p.. no idea what it was until someone pointed out it was System.out.println..
I thought it was standard operational procedure?
@Nick Yeah, I even shortened my nick to Nick
Standard operating procedure
Also "separation of powers"
Oh, I now realise you were responding to s.o.p, not saying shortening things in questions is standard procedure...
8:46 AM
"stock option plan", "statement of purpose", "soprano", "Sisters of Providence", ...
@CodyGray oh yeah... I just love typing so much I want to extend all the words!
I just love communication so much I want people to understand me!
(Typing is also fun, gotta admit. Get yourself a better keyboard, kid.)
sgiaets (sounds good, I am exactly the same)
@Nick Thanks. You just made my point exactly :)
@Nick Was that the popcorn name you were talking about?
@Scratte That's what I'm here for. I could never be a moderator because I just want to make everyone happy! :-)
8:50 AM
@Nick IIRC, it was originally User3270037, then Nick A, then Nick A the Popcorn King, then Nick the Popcorn King, then Nick...
@Daniil Yes. Without the link, can you state what the inputs are, the expected output, and what the code should do?
@MartijnPieters One could edit it to reflect that information in the Q
@Daniil: almost all online coding competition questions suffer from this issue; the judging criteria are secret.
@Daniil Closing is not a permanent state, feel free to edit those questions to make them on topic.
@Nick I feel like I should change mine... I've been using this for over 2 years now
@Daniil One could, but that is OPs responsibility, I don't see why it couldn't be re-opened if they do that
8:52 AM
@Daniil however, if you are suggesting that that's my job, then no, it is not, sorry.
@MartijnPieters Suggested edits take ages to approve though :/
@MartijnPieters I wasn't suggesting you should do it
@Scratte I notice using abbreviations is quite common in Indian English, at least from my experience here
@Daniil then I'm not sure why you were suggesting that one could edit it to ...?
@halfer Yes. That's where I discovered what "sth" means.
That implied strongly to me that you thought that you thought that I should have done so.
8:56 AM
@Daniil Honestly... if I saw a suggested in the queue copying that information from an offsite resource, I'd probably reject it... for copying from an offsite resources, on top of it being OPs responsibilty, we don't know what license there is for the off-site resource, similar to described in this meta post
@CodyGray I have a "needs editing" feed for sth (and many other txtspk abominations besides)
@halfer I confirm it from there ;)
@halfer y u evar want sth like dat? smh
@CodyGray 2b l33t?
@MartijnPieters Note the generic one...
8:58 AM
@Daniil yes, but why then state it at all?
@MartijnPieters Just offering a suggeston as to how these Q's can be improved
right, but... that's what the OP should be told. And they are told that if they read the close banner, and the help center information linked from it.
Sydney Morning Herald?
@Nick shaking my head, according to my sources
@Daniil: the biggest problem is that most of these questions can't be made on topic, even if they do a fantastic job of describing the problem and their approach. If the issue is that a black box automated code judge rejects their solution, without showing the exact inputs given and the expected output for that input, we can't know exactly why either.
9:03 AM
@CodyGray I've never seen that one before...
@Nick If you're like me, you now wish you could unsee it.
@CodyGray :-)
@halfer Not sure.. I think it's a culture within a culture. People here to it too. LQP, LA, FP, OP, SO, NATO.. It's very confusing to new people.. and me :)
What does "sth" mean?
@Scratte Shot through the heart? :p
@Scratte something... I'm not sure what... :-)
9:07 AM
Layered Quiche Pizza, Los Angeles, Fancy Pasta, Open Proxy, Stack Overflow, North Atlantic Treaty Organization. How'd I do, @Scratte?
@CodyGray Layered Quiche Pizza??! Where do you come up with this stuff from?? :-)
@Nick I think that happened once.. I didn't die. I was very young an naive ;)
It definitely means something. But just what that something is (i.e. if it's actually something) is something I'm not sure about.
@Nick You don't like pizza? :-p
Actually, everyone knows it means Letter-Quality Printer
@CodyGray Pizza, absolutely! Quiche even. But the two together? The mind boggles...
9:09 AM
Google says it's a thing
@CodyGray You were absolutely right about FP being Fancy Pasta :) Though (MS) (Messy Spaghetti) is probably more accurate, but in light of being kind..
It also suggests that it may be called "Quichzza", which I am decidedly not in favor of.
@Cody would be great if possible in Scrabble though :p
Wow. I'm speechless - and a bit hungry from looking at all the pictures. Lucky it's almost dinner time
@CodyGray Umm... I wonder if that's pre/post pandemic... lockdown has made some people do "rather inventive" things...
9:12 AM
Frozen Pizza, maybe.. it needs some work first.
Needs to be heated up
26 days to get a suggested wiki edit approved. Is that a record?
9:31 AM
@AdrianMole Better than 26 days to get it rejected
Oh. I submitted a wiki suggestion yesterday, and it already got one approve :D
Now I'm curious how long the other two reviews will take
@rene Ha! Not even on the first screen-full. But 851 days ... whaaaa...
851 days?!!
Can you get the ID of that specific suggestion?
9:47 AM
@janw what's going on with that "Flavors" section?
@janw Only need one more approval. Or two rejections.
or even one rejection :p
@JonClements It lists the main implementations of LINQ, and says that there are extensions. The order was a bit weird, and one sentence was hard to understand
@JonClements Noooo :D
@janw okay... but any reason they shouldn't still be in the wiki if they're still valid references?
@CodyGray but there's no review associated with it
@janw there had been a strange bug that kept for some reason a 100 suggested edits in the queue without ever presenting them to reviewers.
@Zoe Yeah, I noticed that, too.
@JonClements I didn't remove them, just reordered
9:50 AM
There sort of is, but it was never actioned.
yeah, that's what I meant
really weird
I'm not sure what ever got it approved.
@janw oh yeah... I misread it... sorry... looks like Cody's approved it
Oh. Thanks! But now I cannot break the 851 day record ;)
The user made two suggestions. I don't know why/how.
9:52 AM
@AdrianMole Ah, they lowered the requirement to two approvals. I only checked the old suggestions, which needed three
huh, weird
but considering it took 800+ days, is it possible the old review was migrated or something?
I've had that 'multiple pending edits' when I've made additional changes after I first submitted a wiki excerpt edit.
Yeah, it may well be a bug. The original review might have been lost in time somewhere, until a dev poked something.
@AdrianMole But, these appear to be identical...
Appearances can be deceptive.
@AdrianMole Weird. I improved my pending suggestion quite a few times yesterday, but didn't notice any problems
9:55 AM
Not sure what you mean by 'problems' but, in my case, only the 'final version' needed actual approval.
@AdrianMole Yeah, same for me, but I only saw one pending edit all the time
@AdrianMole Did that implicitly approve all of the older versions?
Or did they subsequently disappear?
I can find no trace of the older versions now. But, at some point, I distinctly remember seeing three pending edits in the queue, all from me. So, yes, the one approval counted for all ... and I only earned +2 rather than +6, which was disappointing. ;(
The trouble is that there's no timeline available for wikis.
@AdrianMole errr... there is?
@AdrianMole Whatchu be talkin' 'bout, Willis?
10:02 AM
@Zoe it was a bug. I'm pretty sure Shog9 wrote an answer about it but I can't find it now.
@AdrianMole It looks like in your edit the headlines got broken because of the CommonMark migration
@JonClements Where?
@janw Oh dear. I guess I'll have to edit again. (I didn't change anything about the ### formatting, BTW.)
@AdrianMole there's a "history" at the bottom of the wiki... eg... Python is: stackoverflow.com/posts/3607014/revisions
Yeah, the migration probably happened between your suggestion and the approval....
Yes, it did
20th June
10:06 AM
@JonClements Ah, OK. It's called "history" rather than being an easy-to-identifier, clock-like friendly icon.
The UX for tag wikis is...terrible.
10:30 AM
I came across this month-old question via new answers queue Which tool do you use for flowchart, diagram etc…?. I flagged as opinion-based, but then retracted because the "asking for recommendations" flag is more appropriate. However after retracting I can't flag anymore. Custom mod flags are left pending for ages, so posting here.
@blackgreen Custom flags take long due to low moderator availability. Besides, this isn't something you should flag for mod attention, since they are exception handlers, not for closing, since that's what us users can do.
mm, the post is gone. Fast reaction, you people
@blackgreen It's actually what the room is for. We can help to close some questions that need to be closed.
It's kinda annoying that after retracting a flag, I can't flag anymore, except for mod flags and spam
@blackgreen It was one of the moderators you were trying to avoid.
10:34 AM
@blackgreen true that. But as mentioned: only use the custom flag for stuff normal users cannot handle. Feel free to bring such cases here.
@Adriaan yup, that's what I did
Don't worry @CodyGray you don't have yet one more custom flag to handle from me :)
thanks for the quick response
10:49 AM
"Please download <source file>" - cute.
11:20 AM
Does anyone know of a userscript that shows a posts review history?
@Daniil You mean like the timeline?
@CodyGray The timeline doesn't show all reviews for me
@CodyGray Like the mod show review history but for users
The timeline won't show reviews until they are completed or invalidated, it won't show ongoing reviews (IIRC)
@Nick Hence I'm asking if such a userscript exists
I don't think there is any way for non-mod users to search for active reviews on a post (except suggested edits which can be opened)
11:31 AM
The data would need to be publicly available in order for it to be displayed with a userscript
Will some brave knight Room Owner fix this turbulent priest vacuous election?
@AdrianMole Why a RO?
@AdrianMole if it is needed, yes.
It's a subtle hint.
@AdrianMole For who?
11:32 AM
Bring on the Flower Power! Yeah man, cool!
@Daniil whom
But Galaxies are far out, too.
The election is probably vacant because people are scared of the interrogation that happens after you click the nominate button. The later you nominate the less interrogation you get since comments are disabled sooner
... and Orange Helmets, Talking Numbers, ...
... anyone?
@AdrianMole Why don't you nominate?
I'm far too young.
You mean physical age or SO age?
11:38 AM
@AdrianMole two of our most successful moderators where teenagers when they nominated.
@Adrian doesn't mean that kind of age...
Indeed. I would possibly consider after I've been around for at least another 2-3 years. (Depending on how many more review bans I have by then :) )
Moderators, IMHO, should be leaders and educators; I'm still very much a learner and a 'follower'.
@Daniil past experience shows that people that nominated at the last minute don't gain any votes as they haven't even interacted with the community in comments on their nomination..
@MartijnPieters Who?
11:54 AM
@Daniil BoltClock and Undo. Also Ry-.
12:11 PM
@NathanOliver Morning Afternoon :)
@AdrianMole I think the 0 nominations needs to ride just a bit longer first. Last year, we had 4 or 5 nominations by now. The fact that we've had 2 and they both retracted says something
"If those bar stewards want helping they can pay me" ;=)
@MartijnPieters Do you need to specify your age when you get elected?
@Dharman nope.
12:18 PM
@Dharman No, of course not. Those users had shared their age before ever running for election.
Showing maturity in your responses and actions, is a much better indicator of suitability.
There's also the former mod Mith(randil) from several other SE sites
We know they were teenagers at the time because they shared that information with us. For all we know Cody is 13, for example.
I wonder what would happen if someone under 13 got elected. Would they get to be a mod once they got older?
@MartijnPieters Pretty sure I've shared that information before.
12:21 PM
@NathanOliver They would probably need to get reelected with the new account
@NathanOliver No. Underage accounts are destroyed, per policy.
OK. Couldn't remember if they got the account back or not.
@Machavity Except brexit hasn't finished yet and we're still part of europe until december 31st
@Nick I would assume SE legal is OK with how it is now
12:26 PM
I would assume so
I hope so
I mean, a CM knows he's back at the bare minimum
@Nick So there's still time to abort?
No, we're past the point of no return, however are still covered by their laws as part of the transition period
@CodyGray ghe, no. Actually, the UK missed the formal 1st July deadline to ask for extension of the transition period, so as I understand it, it's 31st December, with or without deal. So until then it's (sort-of) business as usual, then all hell breaks lose.
@MartijnPieters Are we talking age or IQ?
12:38 PM
@AdrianMole yours?
Cuz Cody's got IQ to spare..
@MartijnPieters So I gather. Sometimes, that even shows in his snarky helpful comments.
Someone mentioned earlier in chat (was it here, or in the Election chat room?) that a good moderator candidate needs both IQ and EQ.
That was a bit of an imposter syndrome moment for me. "Wait... EQ is a requirement? Why didn't someone warn me?"
I thought IQ and EQ were mutually exclusive
I thought .EQ. was FORTRAN for ==.
3:27 PM
chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/49849359#49849359 nevermind on this - was really an xy question
@Ruzihm I've binned your request
@NathanOliver thanks
How would you handle this question in triage? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/62774266/html-report-generation-for-test-scripts

I would flag it as "Needs debugging details", but I found that this type of flag often ends up being disputed. So I wonder if I'm doing it wrong
3:35 PM
@blackgreen Why? What details does it need?
@Dharman I'm not sure, so I just skipped it. Do you think the provided info is enough to help the OP debug that code?
@blackgreen I assume it needs additional python tag
@blackgreen Skipping was the right choice.
@Dharman yeah when I'm in doubt I just skip. However it's not entirely clear to me what should be flagged as "needs debugging details", "not reproducible", or when those flags are not appropriate
can you provide a rule of thumb, or point me to a meta thread that discusses this?
@Dharman I assume it needs the relevant part of login.py that also shows the statements where the HtmlRunner is "imported". It needs line 1 till 6.
3:40 PM
@blackgreen Needs debugging should be used when the user gives code and says "it doesn't work" without more details or gives you error without code that threw the error. Not reproducible should be used when you tried yourself to execute the described situation on your own machine and you could not get the error or wrong results.
@blackgreen I would have skipped that question. Triage is hard. I'd argue because you can't limit it to tags where you're a subject matter expert.
If you are unsure or if you do not have the necessary expertise then just skip
@blackgreen did you know this meta post: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/295674/578411
@rene You are right. You should flag as Needs debugging details in Triage then.
@rene yes I read it multiple times, and I found it very useful, however it doesn't cover some of the nuances of flags under the "needs improvement" category
3:44 PM
@blackgreen here is a short one: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/397281/… not sure if that helps enough.
@rene thanks that's a useful piece of info
I'll do some more fishing on meta to find further examples
@blackgreen If you are asking what action you should take in the Traige then the answer is simple: Skip. If you want to know whether the question should really be closed then you need to know something about the technology. You need to try to understand the problem.
@Dharman Yes, I'm talking about triage. I wouldn't close-vote on questions I'm not a SME in, except for blatant cases
Triage is meant to help with quick sorting of questions. If the question is obviously missing details then flag as unsalvagable. If you can edit to make it suitable for answering then press Edit. If you do not know what to do then skip
Not that I have enough rep to cast close-votes anyway :)
3:49 PM
You can flag for the question to enter the Close Vote queue though
I don't review triage very much, but I would also close vote that question as "Needs Debugging Details" since the line shown in the traceback isn't even part of the code shown.
Think this is red flaggable or just NAA? stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/26610909
@IanCampbell that is abuse in my book.
@IanCampbell I would flag NAA. I spam-flag mostly when they promote an external resource without disclosing affiliation
Abuse was my initial thought. Thanks @rene
3:54 PM
@rene do you mean the "rude or abusive" flag?
Good luck finding 6 more del votes
@Daniil Both the question and the accepted answer are heavily upvoted so it seems like a good question. Why do you want to delete it?
@AlonEitan No roomba and it's a dupe
@blackgreen yes, that is what I mean.
it's a useful dupe with 145k views... absolutely no reason for that to be deleted
3:57 PM
@IanCampbell I'd consider it both abuse and spam. It's actually advertising their question, asking people to go to it an help them. It's doing it in a way that's abusing the system, and the user appears to know that it's an abuse. It might be reasonable to normal-delete the answer, but it is spam/R/A.
@Makyen I thought about spam, but they did disclose their affiliation. I know it's a silly distinction.
@Makyen I agree with the reasoning but I would use R/A instead of spam flag
Looks like that user doesn't know how to use an answer box...
So "Abusive" in the R/A flag is intended both as "offensive" and "improper use of the system"?
@blackgreen for me and most mods that is a yes. YMMV
4:00 PM
Or read "abuse of the system."
You wouldn't use the R/A flag for a new user that posted an answer that should have been an edit to their question.
@blackgreen Rude is offensive. Abusive is inappropriate content. Gibberish, nonsense, complaints and so on
@IanCampbell Spam is advertising/promoting something when the question they are answering isn't asking for that type of information. SE also considers linking to things you're affiliated with to be spam when you don't disclose, even if they would not otherwise be considered spam. Being spam doesn't require that the user be affiliated and not disclose. That's just an additional way that something can qualify as spam.
thanks. you people are patient with community newbies, I appreciate that
@IanCampbell oh ... retracts 6 to 8 R/A flags
4:01 PM
OK, maybe you would. I don't.
Hmm. Somebody calling the Vigilantes "patient" ... that's nice. :-)
patient with me at least :D
I'm joking. The regulars and room-owners here are a decent crew.
Just don't get caught answering duplicates!
@AdrianMole Then we're all out of rep :(
Nearly every new Q is a dupe
This brings up a question that has been lingering. 7 R/A flags deletes a post, but 7 VLQ flags does nothing but enter into the LQP queue?
4:04 PM
@AdrianMole you have checked you're in the room you think you are when posting that, right? :p
In my case, I reserve the right to declare the earlier question(s) to be duplicating the one(s) I answer.
@IanCampbell It's 6. NAA/VLQ flags only push it into the review queue.
@IanCampbell it's 6 red flags (so either R/A or spam or combination of both)
@IanCampbell yes, but those vlq flags make that it needs more looks ok to kick it out of the review queue.
4:06 PM
@JonClements Hmm, this is the Self-Obsessed Cruel Vigilantes Room, isn't it?
So when you flag an "abuse of the system" with R/A, you effect deletion that much faster. I think that is a reasonable approach.
@IanCampbell That's basically the argument made by Shog9 in his answer to "Why don't we treat rubbish the same as spam?" flagging "everything that is created with the intention to harm [the system]" as R/A is also mentioned in "What are the “spam” and “rude or abusive” (offensive) flags, and how do they work?".
@Makren Thanks, I'll save that last one in particular.
5:27 PM
Q: Which swift tag should I use?

0-1Welcome to Swift Under this synonyms link, filter synonyms to 'swift' You'll see this:swift3.1, swift3.0.2, swift3.0.1, swift3.0 all map to swift3 You'll also see this: swift2.3, swift2.2.1, swift2.2, swift2.1, swift2.0 all map to swift2 Finally, you'll see this: swift-language, swift-ios, swift1...

Good moaning all /o
