Marijuana, policing reform and 'Black lives matter': Where Holcomb and Myers differ on the issues

Ryan Martin
Indianapolis Star
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At a time when racial tensions are putting a focus on criminal justice reform, Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb has broken with some in his party to say "Black lives matter."

His Democratic opponent, Dr. Woody Myers, appreciates the sentiment, but thinks that’s no longer good enough.

It's not as if either candidate has released detailed policy papers on how they would tackle the toughest challenges in Indiana's expansive criminal justice system. Yet even absent such proposals, both Holcomb and Myers have used speeches and interviews to cast their visions on race and policing as the Nov. 3 election approaches. 

Any voter even mildly familiar with the state of partisanship this election cycle could probably guess some of the differences between the visions. Myers, the first Black man nominated by a major party to run for Indiana governor, wants to overhaul various aspects of policing; Holcomb has not gone that far. Myers wants to partially decriminalize marijuana possession; Holcomb does not.

Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb and Democratic challenger Woody Myers are the major party candidates for Indiana governor in 2020.

The differences even extend to how each candidate approaches the words "criminal justice reform" — a nebulous term that can mean different things to different people. 

Holcomb, in a speech on inclusion in August, did not use those words. Asked what the phrase meant to him, Holcomb said in an email: "The scope of work we will undertake on the criminal justice front can’t be labeled in a couple words."

His vision remains somewhat unclear: The governor declined an IndyStar interview request for this article, but answered several questions by email.

When Myers, who did talk to IndyStar, released a set of priorities a couple months earlier, he used the word "REFORM" as an acronym, likely to make the plans memorable in voters' minds. The R stands for "repair criminal justice system," for example, and the E stands for "end police brutality," and so forth.


Myers said he would ban chokeholds across the state, and look at reducing or ending other ways that police officers restrict people's movement that can cause damage. The chokehold is of particular concern because of its potential to harm someone by restricting arteries in that person's neck.  

"I'm a physician, I know what happens when pressure is applied to the carotid artery. When you do that, you cut off blood flow to the brain and that can lead to all kinds of complications: stroke, blindness, a variety of things," Myers said. "And no matter how that pressure is applied, no matter who is doing it, if it is being applied, it will cause damage." 

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So that raises a question for Myers: Why should anyone be allowed to use that technique on a person, particularly before that person has been formally arrested or judged by a jury of their peers? 

"We should find other ways — non-lethal ways — to get control of an individual or situation," Myers said. 

Holcomb has not gone that far. Asked specifically whether the state should continue permitting chokeholds as a police tactic, Holcomb would not say. 

Most, if not all, training academies in Indiana do not teach chokeholds to recruits. But whereas the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department recently banned the use of chokeholds, and started informing its officers of the discipline they would face if they ever used that tactic, chokeholds are still permissible under the policies governing the vast majority of other law enforcement agencies across the state. 

Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter speaks during a press conference at the U.S. Attorney's office, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2018.  U.S. Attorney Minkler, the FBI, Indiana State Police, and the State Board of Accounts release details about joint operation in a crackdown involving "state-wide corruption," from Operation Public Accountability.

Holcomb noted he is ordering a third-party review of the training programs for Indiana State Police and local officers who attend the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy, which trains the largest share of officers across the state. 

The review will consider how officers are trained to use force, Holcomb said, but he has not yet provided specific details, such as who will conduct the review and when it will occur. Holcomb, via email, said his administration will share the details soon.

Meanwhile, the board overseeing that program — called the Law Enforcement Training Board — recently appeared to take issue with some of the police reforms championed by Indianapolis Mayor Joe Hogsett, a Democrat, and IMPD leadership. A letter this month even called attention to IMPD's ban on chokeholds.  

Most members on the training board are appointed by Holcomb. That includes the chairman, Douglas Carter, who Holcomb selected to head the state police. 

Holcomb, in brief remarks during a coronavirus briefing, said simply the training board has a "job to do" and it will keep doing it.

Police reforms

Myers' running mate, Linda Lawson, was a longtime police officer in Hammond. And Holcomb has collected two police endorsements: The Indiana State Fraternal Order of Police and the Indiana State Police Alliance, whose members are current and retired state troopers. 

Neither Holcomb nor Myers say they would defund the police. And both Holcomb and Myers say they believe most law enforcement officers are in the job for the right reasons. 

Myers, though, would like to see changes in how police conduct is reviewed. He likens it to the medical profession. 

When a patient is killed or injured during a medical operation, the medical professionals gather for what's called a morbidity and mortality conference. Doctors from other departments are invited to examine what happened, including whether a surgeon did something wrong.

"That outside review process is very, very helpful to both the surgeons and to the patients that are still going to be treated at that hospital," Myers said. "Well, I just think that there's a similar process that's needed in law enforcement." 

That's especially true, Myers said, when a police officer's decision leads to serious injury or the loss of life. 

He would like to see each of those incidents automatically investigated by an outside agency. Myers suggested the Indiana Attorney General's office would be a good place.

"I think that when human life is involved, that raises the stakes, and that means to me that you want to have all the expertise that you need immediately available," Myers said. "There's no one entity of the state that should know more about the law in Indiana or any other state than the state's attorney general."

Beyond the upcoming review on police training, Holcomb has not announced any major police reform plans. 

The governor, though, said he would begin outfitting state troopers with body cameras. 

"Body cams are not a panacea for everything we need to fix or even how to," Holcomb said in an email, "but when you talk about body cams, you realize this is something a lot of citizens, myself included, want law enforcement officers to have more information at their disposal, not less or from one other source."

Myers said he agrees that police officers should be equipped with body cameras, and that their patrol cars should contain dash cameras, too (some agencies, like IMPD, do not have dash cameras on most cars).

Decriminalizing marijuana

Researchers and advocates have long emphasized that, in general, Black people are arrested for drug possession at a higher rate than white people. 

The American Civil Liberties Union, for example, found that Black residents in Indiana were 3.5 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana possession in 23 Indiana counties. Not all counties were counted because of deficiencies in police data.

That disparity is one reason why Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Mears' office stopped filing criminal charges for small amounts of marijuana possession. The other reason: the limited amount of law enforcement resources should be focused on bigger problems, such as violent crime. 

But violent crime, at least in Indianapolis, is largely driven by the drug trade, including marijuana.

Which takes us to the governor's race, where similar lines are drawn between Holcomb and Myers. 

Holcomb has for years been opposed to any legalization or decriminalization of marijuana, in part because of federal law. Asked if his views have changed in recent months in light of the national conversation on race and policing, Holcomb said no. 

"I’ve taken a couple oaths in my lifetime, both include following and upholding the law," Holcomb said in an email. "I’ll continue to honor my current oath of office and not pick and choose which laws to follow and which to ignore." 

Acting Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Mears announced marijuana possession offenses will no longer be prosecuted in Marion County during a press conference on Monday, Sept., 30, 2019. "If it is less than one ounce of marijuana, we are not going to file that charge," Mears said. "And that's effective today."

Myers, too, is opposed to legalizing the use of recreational marijuana. Citing his experience in public health, Myers said he is concerned about the effects of marijuana on developing brains in teenagers.

But Myers said Indiana should follow the lead of Prosecutor Mears, and decriminalize possession of small amounts of marijuana. Police resources are better spent, Myers said, on other issues. 

Myers also supports medicinal marijuana. He said Indiana should allow the use of THC, a compound in the marijuana plant that provides the feeling of being high, for medicinal purposes.

"There is some good evidence today that THC can be an adjunct in treatment of extreme seizures, seizure disorders and a variety of other illnesses," Myers said. "And there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that it provides a relief for patients that are suffering from the effects of cancer, chemotherapy and some other illnesses."

Black lives matter

Yet for all their differences, there's some overlap between the candidates' visions. Both have openly acknowledged how a history of racism in the United States has created long-lasting disparities for Black Hoosiers today.

Both have said unequivocally: Black lives matter. That may not be much of a surprise for a Black Democratic candidate for governor in 2020, but it's the kind of language that some conservatives and elected Republicans still find to be problematic (one example: as the Democratic-led Indianapolis City-County Council approved in July painting the words "Black Lives Matter" on Indiana Avenue, Republican Councilor Paul Annee did not vote and later said he wanted to see "Blue Lives Matter" painted on a different road). 

Holcomb, though, has conceded that as a white man he can "never fully understand the sadly common anguish our Black friends and coworkers have dealt with for generations." In his emailed response to questions from IndyStar, Holcomb said that the three words "Black lives matter" are not controversial to him.

The words may not be controversial to Holcomb, but they are certainly controversial to at least some conservative voters in Indiana. All one had to do was watch the Facebook Live video as Holcomb delivered his speech to see a flood of comments from people who were tuned in — many of those commenters were skeptical, to use an extensively generous term, but others resorted to language that could not be printed by this newspaper. 

It's no secret to Holcomb. He has compared systemic racism to the coronavirus — both are "voracious," he said, and are leading to a "reckoning" in our state. And like his response to the coronavirus — where Holcomb has opted against the messy option of issuing fines to people who violate his mask order and instead repeatedly leaned on citizens to display a vague definition of Hoosier goodness to get through the pandemic — Holcomb's response to systemic racism, in part, seems to rely on all Hoosiers to pull their own weight. 

Holcomb knows the power of his words, though. And he seems to hope that it's enough to get started. 

"My role is to lead by example, set a tone, and insist everyone will be treated equally. You’re never going to get everyone to come along with you and there may be some people that, for whatever their reasons, don’t want to admit there are issues and, thus, be part of the solution," Holcomb said in an email. "But, I believe a vast majority of Hoosiers want to keep moving this state forward and there’s a lot of energy to turn protest into progress." 

Myers didn't have much to say about Holcomb's speech. But what he did say afterward, which was maybe the most pithy statement of the campaign season, carried a bit of a political punch: "Much too little, much too late."

To Myers, it's obvious that reform is needed across the criminal justice system. Not just in identifying alternatives to incarceration, and not just after someone finishes their jail sentence and starts to look for work, but also in the day-to-day interactions between law enforcement officers and the people they have sworn to protect and serve. 

It's in that last example where the differences between the two candidates may be most obvious.

"No one is arguing, I'm not arguing, that public safety isn't important. It's the most important thing that I think government is responsible for," Myers said in an interview, "but we have to do it better. Clearly we have to do it better than what we're doing today and the public has to have more confidence." 

Election day 

Holcomb holds a substantial fundraising lead over Myers, as well as the advantages of incumbency. And it is already an uphill climb for any Democrat seeking statewide office in Indiana, where Republicans hold every elected statewide office and a super majority in both chambers of the General Assembly.

Yet Myers, a former Indiana health commissioner under governors of both major parties, said he stands ready to partner with Republicans on criminal justice reform. He said he's learned how to work with people of all walks of life over the years — something he picked up beginning in medical school. 

If re-elected, Holcomb aims to dive further into the plans he announced in August. That includes the creation of a chief equity officer in his cabinet. The charge of that position, Holcomb said, will be to act on the disparities found in job preparedness, infant mortality rates, housing programs and more — all issues that are at least loosely connected to criminal justice reform in Indiana. 

Hoosiers have until Oct. 5 to register to vote. Early voting in Marion County begins Oct. 6 at the City-County Building and on Oct. 24 at five other locations.The election is Nov. 3.

Contact IndyStar investigative reporter Ryan Martin at or by phone, Signal or WhatsApp at 317-500-4897. Follow him on Facebook or Twitter: @ryanmartin.

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