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12:04 AM
Q: I have a player who yells

GwideonI run a campaign for a group of friends (ages 16-17) and we generally have fun, but there is one player I've been having trouble with. They tend to get frustrated with the other players goofing off out of game and when they get frustrated they tend to yell. Now out of character yelling is prohi...

2 hours later…
1:39 AM
Mooorrr-- [checks watch] Morning all
hey there @Ben, still under the weather I take it?
I sound like it at least.
Not feeling it, though. Which is a bonus
2:01 AM
Well, I just made a booboo
IT's my mum's 60th this year, so everyone wants to make it a special one. There's been email chains and secret conversations, even to the point where my comments to throw her off the trail have been hushed.
All the traffic on the topic has made me think it was this weekend. Except it's not until next month.
@Ben lol
always remember when my mum's b'day is: 25/12!
@nitsua60 lulz
@BlackSpike Ah, yes. I used to do that, but I found that it made more work for me in order to create adventures that everyone would be invested in because I had to somehow come up with ideas that involved everybody's different backstories. It's much easier to create engagement when characters have relationships with each other and forward-looking goals.
yeah, I usually reserve backstory more for answering salient questions about how a character came to be the way they are
2:14 AM
@BlackSpike I have 3 sisters, my mum, my dad, and my daughter's bday to remember. Or, "remember". Lol. All I remember is my youngest sister's bday, because I used to have the first birthday of the year, then she stole it. And My daughter's bday was on the 27th of Feb; born at 11:59. Due to my state of mind at the time, I thought she was almost a leap year baby.
@BESW Agreed. The next GM-Question is "how does that work, going forward?" :)
I am bad at remembering birthdays, I rely on my calendar.
I can remember mine mostly.
@Ash I would, except that would mean people need to advertise when their bdays are haha
@nitsua60 snorts
I encourage people to make characters with shared goals and existing relationships, and the details can come out in the wash.
2:15 AM
@Ash I rely on my mum! "Hey, you know it's your bro's birthday next week?" .. "yes, mum, -of-course- I know ... thanks for nudge!"
@Ash same, I'm bad at dates of things in general really
Even when I can remember birthdays (hi @Ash!) I'm bad at gifting because I just give people the stuff I think would make them happy whenever in the year I find it?
@BESW Saaaame, I am like "why do I need to wait for a reason why can't I just say "this is for you because you are cool today and it is Tuesday" or whatever
@BESW we're a long-standing group of players .. implicit in PC creation is "you will be working as a group ... roll a PC that gets on with everyone (sort of ...)
@BESW I'm not complaining :P
2:19 AM
@BlackSpike Sure, but that's not what I'm talking about. I encourage people to create specific (but not detailed) points of contact, not just a general expectation of non-aggression or mutual bonhomie.
Designated gift giving occassions give me hives.
@BESW like certain types of friendship or familial relationships or enmity or whatever?
@BESW we tend to 'drift' towards that ... and then the GM throws us a PLOT ... we all jump aboard the PLOT TRAIN :) we then grab the wheel and run it off the rails :)
@BESW I have a shelf in the closet for those things: I buy all year, put a post-it with a person's name on it, and when their birthday's coming up I look on the shelf. If there's a present there, I gift it. Otherwise, better luck next year!
(also bonhomie always makes me think of bonhomme which means I totally think of this guy)
@Ash Like how in Masters of Umdaar each character picks another character and defines a family-like relationship such as "She's like my impatient little sister." Or Golden Sky Stories with its relationship suggestions like Rivalry, Admiration, Protection, Affection, etc.
2:22 AM
Ah that makes sense :D
upcoming game, we have been given a Central Point (Venice-type canal-city) ... "the NPC has a boat. You are invested in this boat. "
I'm pretty bad at gift giving because it's not part of my normal routine
we get to decide how, but that's a Campaign Conceit.
@BESW yeah, PbtA style Bonds are good for that I find
My brain is pretty regimented into doing the same things through the day and the week
2:24 AM
@Ash Masters of Umdaar is a good example because it also provides goal prompts: everybody has to provide a short phrase explaining why they've chosen to make a profession out of the ridiculously dangerous artefact-hunting activities that the game is based around.
@trogdor when Christmas comes around and I have to suddenly buy for a pile of people my brain shorts out
I always feel like I don't know what people like because I hyperfocus on things so it's easy to know what I like but non-NAT people don't do that do I don't know how to tell they like a thing
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, messaging number in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, +1 more (437): Do ability scores have any effect on casting the Wish spell? by vicky danis on rpg.SE
Often we use the tired trope: You all have the same Boss, and he says you work together
@Ash Sometimes I just go "Okay, fine." and I sit down and make origami for everybody, choosing the specific creature/object that will show each person I was thinking of them in particular.
Oh, I like that
2:26 AM
...don't you just love the spam we get around here? :P
Because that's what gifting's about, it's "I care about you in particular enough to invest in thoughtfully displaying that care."
I wish my brain remembered that better
Origami is shorthand for "invested time and effort and care in a thing," and picking the right shape personalizes it.
I love origami things, I like making it, although my hands are struggly with it
Get a bone folder. [nods]
A good (metal) ruler and a bone folder are so useful.
2:29 AM
"I maded this, for you!" is always better than "i found this in the Mall"
yeah, I really need to start unwinding my pile of half-baked crap though :P
@Ash yep
Same here
@BESW but I kinda hate that that is the only acceptable way to show that because it takes me an unfathomable amount more effort to do that than NAT people
@Ash Yeah, NT people struggle with figuring that out too. That's why there's so many jokes about obvious generic gifts like getting dad another tie for father's day or wedding gifts being mostly fancy appliances.
I gotta get out of my rut/normal routine, figure out exactly what they want even if they don't tell me, find out where to get it, and then go there and actually get it
Some of those things sounds easy to a lot of you probably
Trust me when I say that when I read that list of things it makes me shudder
That's one reason I like that chenchule' is acceptable in services rendered, and is expected during events where certain services are obviously needed.
2:39 AM
At least when they are all combined
@trogdor ...I have never been able to muster empathy for people who consider shopping recreational.
@BESW ugh
It's a horrible chore
That's also one reason I like pet sitting though
I get to go to a place, do the same thing every day until the owner gets back, the animal/s actually don't want nearly the level of attention humans do (yes even dogs, I'm serious about this) and when they get back they are extremely grateful I did the things
I mean, for one thing animals don't expect you to look them in the eye, and even when I do it just doesn't hurt the way human eye contact does
@BESW yeah, I can relate to struggling with gift-giving...especially regularly expected gift-giving
3 hours later…
5:43 AM
I mean, if it was my specific definition of "regularly expected" it would mean once every week
That would help a lot in adding a routine of it but would also be taxing in it's own right
6:00 AM
My family asks each other what we want if we can't think of anything
Makes things a lot easier
And for parents birthdays and mothers/fathers day we'll often cook dinner for them
'cause parents are hard to buy for :/
(we being my siblings and I)
6:16 AM
I get my dad tea, my mother is harder because she lacks a trademark favorite.
6:33 AM
I second this extremely hard, parents don't tell you what they want
@Someone_Evil Did some copyediting ;)
@BESW Shopping is one of my least favorite activities, along with talking to strangers on the phone.
@kviiri Tea is a good choice 🍵
7:16 AM
@trogdor They tell you they want you to be happy :)
or they just vaguely groan at the question and hem and haw about it
7:43 AM
@Ash No, please, not again... Same struggle every year
8:39 AM
Q: Are the players on the same team as the DM?

BrysI need an answer because I am a beginner. And I got the players handbook and it does not say a thing about this.

@V2Blast Some. (highly appreciated :))
8:56 AM
@V2Blast Yeah and I'm a tea drinker myself, so I have the necessary domain knowledge to make good picks :)
@trogdor Ow, sounds hard :(
@kviiri I mean,... it's not the worst thing, if they can't tell me what they want they know they aren't getting much
sometimes they actually ask for something
9:14 AM
Vocabulary-storming: types of fish whose names are very commonly known. Preferably not show fish like goldfish or fighting fish.
Cod, trout, salmon?
hmm, good.
Shark, swordfish, ray, haddock.
Starfish, crab, lobster, shrimp, jellyfish, sea urchin. (See also, there's no such thing as a fish)
9:19 AM
That's a point. Shrimp might work, I'm looking for something that's not "charismatic."
Stonefish, eels, wolffish?
Ooh, eel is good too.
blobfish, anglerfish
bass plaice sole monkfish hake basa
Anything with a -fish suffix won't work, too unwieldy.
9:25 AM
I'm happy with shrimp/eel for now. Thanks very much!
Sea Pigs are worth an image search in the "your fantasy/SF creatures don't look weird enough, because this is real" category
oh someone said pike
@Someone_Evil I'll see your sea pig and raise you a sea hare.
Which reminds me. @Ash do an image search for "Christmas tree worms."
10:05 AM
We invented a fun little role play thingy with my SO yesternight
I pretended to be Leonardo da Vinci and asked her to tell me about the coolest things of the future. And asked a lot of questions.
She did really good at explaining although I'm still a bit lost how all those cats stuffed in the "internet" tubes don't run out of breathing air
10:30 AM
There are robots all along the tubes that constantly blow in hot air.
What's a robot?
I mean, apart from a means of transportation
A clumsy metaphor for cruel labor practices, taken literally by people with no sense of irony.
I wonder if irony was invented in Leonardo's time
(of course it was, it was invented in the iron age)
Or maybe irony was invented first and when the iron age came people were using iron ironically and hence the name
10:49 AM
Hi chat, I posted this meta a couple of weeks ago now - Is 5e a clear enough statement of game system by a question asker?
Community consensus seems to have settled on an answer. Should I do anything?
Should I Accept the most upvoted answer - or just do nothing and leave for it people to refer to later?
Either one is fine
There's not really a need to accept an answer on policy discussions
Cool - i'll leave as is. Thanks doppel :)
11:55 AM
Does anyone have any idea why my "living wood" answer has suddenly gotten so much attention? It's gotten like 10 upvotes in a single night. Is there something suddenly relevant about Innistrad's trees?
@Someone_Evil That would do it.
12:13 PM
Q: Is it possible to create a tag referral?

MarlondA recently added tag was created with the UK English spelling 'flavour'. Many US English speakers may have trouble finding or be hesitant to use this tag. Is it possible to create a tag that refers to this one with the alternate spelling? https://rpg.stackexchange.com/tags/flavour/info

Q: Is there any method of inflicting the incapacitated condition and no other condition?

user55434From reading through conditions such as paralyzed (PHB 291) or unconscious (PHB 292), I realized that incapacitated seems to act largely as shorthand so each condition that inflicts it (paralyzed, petrified, stunned, and unconscious, for those keeping track) doesn't have to repeat the text "the c...

1 hour later…
1:15 PM
@kviiri that's a superb exercise
@kviiri This whole thing was amazing. Thank you for that lol
2 hours later…
3:18 PM
@KorvinStarmast FWIW I'm not sure I see any contradiction in JC's tweets there.
Wizards spellbooks aren't runes necessarily and also don't have any linguisitic meaning necessarily. :)
3:30 PM
hello all, been a bit
How's it going?
going well, yourself?
busy busy, but can't complain too much.
hooray! How's the new house treating you?
Very nicely! Still working on a bunch of small and medium stuff in preparation for a housewarming party but so far it has been nothing but wonderful.
3:40 PM
good to hear
What have you been up to?
not much, just working and family stuff. Been having to really focus a lot at work and haven't had the time or focus to manage having videos or chats open while working
4:11 PM
Q: When a creature runs away from combat, when can it trigger surprise again?

Akayami RyuuI understand how surprise works, but one thing I’m curious about is clarification on when combat “ends”, if it doesn’t resolve in the defeat of either side. This might make a little more sense with context of the situation that provoked this question. I have a villain that uses the rogue’s assa...

@G.Moylan That makes sense. I'm definitely had that going on lately as well. Between work and house stuff it definitely eats up time.
indeed. It doesn't help that I have ADHD, and while that enables me to shift gears rapidly, it also sometimes means I fall into rabbit holes for way more time than I should, or shift gears when perhaps it's best not to
but part of living with that is managing it and recognizing what your triggers might be. Chat windows and youtube are big ones for me, but today I'm feeling good about it
Yeah I should almost certainly be doing more to help myself against my ADHD triggers (ADHD fist bump)
Kudos to you for being aware and attentive to yourself :)
4:29 PM
bump I still have trouble getting ahead of them sometimes. I've chosen to not take medication for it for the past several years (almost 10 now) and sometimes that means I have days where I really struggle. But I have more good days than bad in that regard, so I think I'm doing alright overall
Q: Can more than one wizard copy a spell from a spellbook?

ant_aoeIn the PLAYER'S HANDBOOK you can copy a spell into your own spellbook. In the DMG (p200) if a spell is copied from a scroll, the scroll is destroyed. If a spell is copied from a spellbook however, does the same apply? And could more than one wizard copy the same spell (or spells) from a found ...

@G.Moylan Dang that's still impressive. I would literally be unable to function without medication.
@Rubiksmoose I was that way for a long time. I initially suffered when I went off medication (didn't do well academically in college when I really had no excuse). Reflecting on it now, I think I had issues in some form or another for several years socially, academically, etc. Really only these past 5 years or so, since I've been married, had "big boy" jobs, and had a kid in that time, so I feel like I've really been paying attention to what my triggers are
Mostly it's the fact that I noticed I'd have almost entire workdays where I struggled to accomplish much of anything, and thought "wow I need to fix something"
4:46 PM
So I decided to do a very dumb thing and try to figure out a way to assign every [mundane] weapon in D&D5e a single numerical value representing how "good" it is, where "good" is partially damage, but also non-damage properties.
and the winner?
I'm guessing Vorpal or nine-lives stealer
oh wait mundane
@G.Moylan Again; just mundane weapons.
I'm trying to figure out how to assign values to weapon properties.
why are great weapons rated so low by comparison?
4:49 PM
@G.Moylan Well, my guess is that I've assigned wrong values to certain properties.
are you examining the weapons in a vacuum or trying to account for how they can be wielded?
If I assume that all weapons are theoretically equal (which is probably wrong, but we'll just assume it for the sake of argument) then all weapons should have a value of 0.
So if a weapon is above or below 0, it means one of two things:

1. I've assumed a wrong value for one (or more) of the weapon's properties
2. The weapon really is just better or worse than its peers.
so when you look at a greatsword vs say a dagger, what factors go into determining their relative "goodness"
Some of those property values I'm confident with; some less so.
so what determines that a heavy weapon is objectively worse than one that isn't?
4:54 PM
Loading is -2 because, unless you have a feature that negates it like the Crossbow Mastery feat, it severely limits the power of the weapon.
@G.Moylan The fact that small creatures cannot wield it.
Or, they can, but with Disadvantage.
ok what about two-handed
@G.Moylan You can't hold a second weapon if you plan to use it unless you get clever with juggling items.
I feel like that one is a bit loose. Chracters optimized for two-handed weapons can often wield them to terrifying effectiveness
@G.Moylan Yes. These values don't consider a character's specific potential to improve the weapon. Otherwise I'd be adding +2 to all the Crossbows.
I'm considering, though, dropping both heavy and two-handed to -0.5 instead of -1.
Since Heavy at least tends to be a very marginal property.
ok I think I see where you're going with this. You're going for something along the lines of: which weapon would have the most general usefulness to the greatest variety of race/class/level combinations
5:00 PM
@G.Moylan Yeah. And there's definitely a ton of edge cases it doesn't properly consider.
@Xirema sure, but edge cases aren't "in general"
This is all intended to be part of a procedural Weapon generator I'm working on, so I'm trying to figure out if any weapons are just objectively better than others, or if they're all relatively balanced; and that depends on figuring out whether my assumptions about how to value the individual properties are correct or not.
Like, some things seem really obvious: it makes sense that a Morningstar is just strictly worse than a Rapier or Longsword: it has neither the Finesse nor Versatile properties that make those weapons (respectively) just a little bit better.
I feel like certain weapons would benefit moreso from certain magical properties, though. like Vorpal, for example
@G.Moylan Vorpal sling.
and morningstars are great for their design purpose, though, which was knocking cavalry off their horses
but terrible one-on-one weapons
5:06 PM
It also makes sense to me that the Crossbows tend to get rated lower: again, that Loading property really cuts deep into their effectiveness.
(Hence why the Crossbow Expert feat is basically mandatory for anyone wanting to focus on Crossbows)
so I guess it depends what frame of reference you're using for determining "most useful." I wouldn't find a rapier very useful for unseating cavalry
but one-on-one, rapiers are great. Longer reach than a dagger, too
@G.Moylan Well, in game mechanics. IRL doesn't have much bearing in that regard. =P
I'm wondering if I should reduce the value of a thrown weapon. It's already lower than normal ranged weapons due to lower range, but Thrown Weapons also have the problem that they have to be retrieved somehow.
yeah. One-time-use seems highly detrimental
if used that way
5:17 PM
I applied the -1 adjustment to the Lance to account for the fact that it technically has the Two-Handed property (hidden behind Special), which only goes away while mounted.
I think it's okay to keep it at -1, because it has the disadvantages of being Two-handed, but doesn't actually have that property, so it can't be used with features that might benefit it.
(Otherwise I'd have to reduce the adjustment to -0.5)
I figured it was due to its special circumstances
Right now, after all the adjustments I've made (including a flat -1 "normalization" factor), the Lance has the highest score at 1.
I think that's probably a better spread than 2 to -5
@G.Moylan Well, the blowgun is the one pushing the lower end, now sitting at -6. It just kind of sucks as a weapon in every known way.
yeah it's awful. You might be able to drop it if you stipulated that you had to roll for the damage. All non-fixed-damage weapons
5:27 PM
TBH, the Net should probably be 2 points lower as well, since I think it behaves as-though it has the Loading property, even though its properties don't say so.
you can attack every round, you just can't get multi-attacks with it. Loading takes an entire action to fulfil
@G.Moylan Yeah, that's how I've been weighing it. Losing Extra Attack is a pretty huge loss.
but it isn't as bad as loading, with takes a turn to do. you can't exactly get multiattacks with a loading weapon either
@G.Moylan Oh, you might be thinking of a different edition. Loaded weapons in 5e don't need extra turns to reload, it's just preventing the Extra Attacks.
> Loading. Because of the time required to load this weapon, you can fire only one piece of ammunition from it when you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to fire it, regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make.
oh it appears I am
so yeah they're effectively identical
as you said
5:31 PM
So yeah, the net has a defacto Loading property without explicitly saying so.
indeed. idk why they just didn't give it the property and rename it to "slow," stipulating that a "slow" weapon takes time to use again
So the net drops to -4.5, only being better than the Blowgun because it has utility beyond damage, which I weighed on its own as being worth +2 or 3.
but alas, 5e language
I could maybe bump the Blowgun up to -5.5 because its range is almost eligible for Medium Range, but it's still pretty awful.
it does 1 damage, it's irredemably bad :P
I suppose you could poison the darts or something
5:34 PM
Well, +Dexterity.
but that's getting in the "potential" territory
@Xirema which is also odd, but I suppose is better than a d4
@G.Moylan in a way
@G.Moylan Well, you'd also expect the d4 to come with +Strength or Dexterity, depending on the weapon.
Damn, I could issue a Brutal, Superior Blowgun +1 and it still would only reach the quality of a mundane Longsword, based on this system.
oh are you using that table that assigns additional keyworded properties? I've seen that floating around
@G.Moylan I've seen it as well, but I'm brewing my own.
we just need an additional table that adds "of the bear" or "of the lizard" to the end with extra health or regen stapled on
5:37 PM
Actually, Brutal + Superior cannot be applied to a Blowgun because it doesn't have damage dice.
@Xirema oof
So really we're just talking about Blowgun +3 being equal to a mundane longsword.
bad is still bad. A blowgun is really only useful as a poison delivery system
@Xirema I think ammunition should be -.5
also, moylan is correct. blowguns are for delivering poison
and theme
Hmm. Changing Ammunition to -0.5 makes the Shortbow be on par with the Lance at a score of 1, tied for top scorers.
I think that's just down to the Shortbow being a Simple Weapon, which gives a +1 bonus.
Maybe I should reduce that to 0.5
5:42 PM
hard to say on simple vs martial.

Most of the time a character would use it, they are proficient in it.
@goodguy5 True; but the idea is supposed to be that Martial Weapons are usually just a little bit better than Simple Weapons because they're just a little bit harder to use.
Isn't that already reflected in their damage?
Here's the trick: the higher an item's score, then the less features I can give a Procedurally generated weapon of that class when I create a Magic Item of its kind.
@goodguy5 That's one way it might be reflected, but that's not always the case.
If I remove the +1 adjustment for being a Simple Weapon, then in the top half of weapons, only three of them are Simple.
that seems fine
but can they play pinball?
5:47 PM
is this a Pinball Wizard joke?
Yeah. But because they're Simple, more characters can use them; so it makes sense to me that when adjudicating how many magic features to add to them to create an "Uncommon" quality item, Simple Weapons should probably receive slightly fewer.
But why, tho
even if you have flaming club, is the wizard really going to use it that often?
@goodguy5 Because a +1 X is inherently more valuable than a +1 Y if the whole party can use X and only one character can use Y.
Not by much; hence why I'm considering changing the modifier to 0.5 instead of 1.
Only if X is equally usable by the whole party
but I support .5
I could imagine a scenario where a Wizard picks up a crossbow and fires it if it has the property that it can ignite an enemy target for multiple rounds.
Like, 10d4 damage over 10 rounds can add up.
5:52 PM
A wand of Cure Wounds (or whatever) that can be used by the whole party is great.
An identical wand that requires a wisdom check to do so is usually just going to go to the cleric (ranger, whatever) anyway
@Xirema Here's where I'm at now.
After Normalizing (I always subtract or add a number so that the median weapon is a 0) the non-blowgun non-net weapons span +1 to -1.5.
Looks like a table for the Elemental Plane of Math!
@GcL That room was frozen for inactivity. =P
@Xirema We could see if the mods would make it permanent
Not sure that's a thing.
Mods can re-open rooms but I don't think you can make a room unable to be frozen.
6:03 PM
@GcL [Rubiksmoose casts thaw]
Lol, thanks. XD
Yeah I don't think we can make it permanent. We're always happy to warm things up though lol
Alright, posted there for posterity.
I like having a room for holding the Mathemancy
Chat of holding
Now the only open question is, relative to this scale I've established, how much should various Magical Properties be worth....
6:09 PM
btw, this seems more like you're searching for an "enchantability" modifier, rather than a true "goodness" scale
@goodguy5 I mean, yeah, that is the ultimate goal.
Although in this context, it's an inverse value, since a Lower Value == Higher Enchantability.
And I was thinking about something very similar the other night. .... like laying awake in bed trying to determine the relative value of +1 vs increased crit damage as enchants
@goodguy5 Ah yes, the RPG player's equivalent to counting sheep lol
I think that I determined +1 was roughly equivalent to 19-20 critical which was roughly equivalent to 4x crit dice.

With some variability based on how hard to hit the thing was in the first place.
but I was in bed, so I didn't right any of it down.
@goodguy5 I actually do need to hash that kind of stuff out.
6:13 PM
For simplicity, I kept everything in improper fractions lol.
I had earmarked that +1 (HIT and DMG) is equivalent to Superior (Crit Range 19-20) and to Brutal (extra Die on crit)
Your calculations might suggest Brutal is slightly less valuable than I had assumed? (I didn't run numbers on it, I was just spitballing)
extra die, or extra dice? (i.e. how does it interact with greatswords)
And I THINK so, iirc
Extra Die, so Greatsword goes from 4d6 to 5d6. on a crit. Same as the Barbarian feature, hence the name.
(Superior gets its name from the Champion Fighter feature)
I was comparing all dice.
Okay, so that does suggest Brutal might be overvalued in my assumptions.
Although combining with Superior does increase the value of both...
6:24 PM
Excellent video on Rule of Cool and managing gameplay from WebDM: youtube.com/watch?v=qkrjARxseCc
@Xirema all "out of" 20
normally, needing a 10 on the die, you deal 12*damagedice+11*damagebonus; 10 noncrithits + 2 (from crit)

+1 means you only need 9 on the die; 13*damagedice+12*(damagebonus+1)

superior needs 10 on the die; 15*damagedice+11*damagebonus

brutal(dice, not die) needs 10; 13*damagedice+11*damagebonus
- single die is the same, but 12.5 for 2dX weapons

4xcrit brutal needs 10; 14*damagedice + 11*damagebonus

3xbrutal superior; 15*damagedice + 11*damagebonus
that was how I pondered it without anything to write averages on
hrm.... I mess up something....
yea, I borked superior.

should be (9+2+2)*damagedice + 11*damagebonus
which means that +1 is a full static 11+damagebonus+1 better than the other two; with damage bonus ranging from 3 (usually) up to 5 (7 for barbarians. and another 10 for great weapon master, but that's a wonky scenario anyway).
So, to compete, you're going to have to shore up something
6:41 PM
@goodguy5 Alright, so I ran a whole lot of numbers on a basic Greatsword on a level 1 character with no features or fighting styles. (+5HIT, 2d6+3DMG)
What's the tohit on those?
@goodguy5 Before any special properties of the weapon, +5 (+3STR +2PROF)
For the Basic+1, +2, +3, it becomes +6,+7,+8.
does a nat 1 always miss?
6:42 PM
right. I always have to remember which is which between saves skills and attacks
Brutal, Brutal++, and Brutal++++ is +1 Crit Die, +2 Crit Dice, +4 Crit Dice. The last of which is your "Critx4" scenario.
(At least in this situation: my calculator doesn't have a built-in function for "double the crit dice AGAIN....)
yea, got it
18-20/4x is still worse than +3
Yup. Big shocker.
Could be really powerful on a high level Champion Fighter, but it turns out those features are pretty low-impact.
Looks like two of superior and/or brutal is close enough to +1
6:48 PM
Certainly some classes will get more use out of it. Barbarians could get really scary with a Superior++ Brutal++ Greataxe, which under my system would only be a Rare Magic Item.
Add in that they're a half-orc, and you've got something doing 7d12 on an 18-20 crit
I posted those results in the other room. It's definitely a lot, although still somewhat modest.
Actually, scratch that.
Forgot to switch it to a greataxe.
Okay, the real stats are posted now.

superior brutial++ surprasses +3
TL;DR: For a Barbarian, these properties are nearly doubled in value.
I love barbarians
7:00 PM
So I'm thinking the correct value for Superior is 1.5, for Brutal about 1. Contrast with +1, +2, or +3 on a weapon, each worth +2 +4 +6.
(Referring back to my Weapon Properties tables)
idk. because superior brutal is still kind of lower than +1
Superior++ Brutal++ is +6, equivalent to a +3 weapon's +6. But in a Barbarian's hands, the former is better; in someone else's hands, the latter is better.
@goodguy5 Are you looking at the new Barbarian stats on the other page? That's not the case in that particular comparison.
not with the barb, no. I mean, in general.

It seems unfair to the property to compare it against a level 20 barbarian
or whatever
It's a level 2 Barbarian: high enough to get their Reckless Offense feature.
But no additional crit dice from barbarian features.
oh snap
didn't realize that
7:06 PM
And I'm not including Rage, which mostly just bumps all the values up by 2-ish, since most of these don't affect hit%.
Even so. comparing the efficacy of Brutal++++ looks much different against a Champion than it does anyone else.
I'd compare on a Champion fighter, but my calculator doesn't expand the crit range beyond 18-20, so if I want to do that, I have to add that functionality. =P
mmmm.... 16-20 crit range. /drool
@goodguy5 Elven Dex Fighter with Elven Accuracy and a situation where you can get Advantage.
chance of not critting is something like .8^12
A good time to be a Paladin lol
7:10 PM
Well, across 4 attacks. On a single attack, you have a 57% chance of getting a critical hit.
wait a second, I goofed.

it's actually .75^12

so, ~3%
Yup. 3.1676% chance of 0 crits across 4 attacks.
but enough power gaming fantasies. I need to clean my house and pretend I'm working.
And if you're a dexterity Fighter, maybe you're a Crossbow Expert who got that property on your crossbow....
woooh. lunch beer and medicine kicking in at the same time.
7:41 PM
@goodguy5 Time to write some story lines!
I don't think I'm THAT altered.
Well, darn
2 hours later…
10:05 PM
Q: Can a Rogue PC teach an NPC to perform Sneak Attack?

iaminsensibleImportant Note: I am aware of this post regarding NPC training but it failed to answer my question and the top answer has some holes. Read the entire post before flagging. I want to run a heavily player-based, sandbox campaign (I am aware of the difficulties) and to help the players get started ...

11:01 PM
@Glazius what's your schedule look like for finishing up Fellowship btw? :)
11:23 PM
@Shalvenay In general I can make time on Saturdays if other people can.
11:46 PM
@Glazius okiedokie, looks like 1300EDT/1200CDT it is then
11:58 PM
@Shalvenay ok
