Distributed Conversations with Douglas Horn

The tools to tokenize business make it as easy as setting up a website, blog or TikTok account. But what good is this doing business?

We know about tokens for rewards programs or to keep track of things and we know that we won’t need programmers creating currencies for everything. Fintech is going to be huge, but just a tiny part of the things we count in business.

Enter Telos and an easy way to create smart contracts through their platform. Telos is a blockchain tuned to handle transactions at super fast speed and has the ability to scale beyond any assessment of transactions happening today.

Douglass Horn and I will talk about the future and how platforms such as TELOS will accelerate the growth of blockchain in the next few years.

Full disclosure, I own a small amount of TLOS and advise companies building on the platform. I was not paid for this episode. Telos is not the only way to add blockchain but the inclusion smart contracts makes it one of my current favorites.

Listen to the podcast here:


Douglas Horn and Warren Whitlock

Warren Whitlock: [00:00:00]   Hi, it’s Warren Whitlock of Distributed Conversations with a, another interesting interview. I know I’ve got coming here today. It’s a Douglas Horn, the architect of Telos. we’re going to talk about what he’s doing with the blockchain and, And more importantly, what about all the people who aren’t, day trading crypto?

[00:00:32] What’s that going to? As we start getting blockchain on everything, that is, one of the major goals of Distributed Conversations, let the world know that we, this is something that’s going to change everything. Just like the fact that. we all have mobile phones, we all have websites.

[00:00:47] we all have a newer technologies that have happened and that’s going to continue to speed up the accelerate. The great acceleration is coming, and the focal point today is to talk about how that puts blockchain everywhere. So welcome to the show done.

[00:01:02] Douglas Horn: [00:01:02] Hey, thanks, Warren. I’m really happy to be here.

[00:01:05] Warren Whitlock: [00:01:05] Okay, great. yeah. Yeah. So just briefly tell us about how you in your very. Different things you’ve done in your career wound up, getting into this position. Why did you’re the architect of Telos? Why did you do it?

[00:01:18]Douglas Horn: [00:01:18] the reason I wanted to, get a group together to start Telos, two years ago is, had been in crypto for some time, through mining and doing some development and things like that. But never really out in front of anything. I was working on EOS, which I thought was amazing technology.

[00:01:35] And I was one of the, one of the, maybe 20 to 40, companies who were launching the EOS main net. And I was really out of that, out of that, I was, a huge believer in the, what the technology could do with the hype. High capacity, capability, and capacity. but I was really disappointed in the end of that process because the parts I was most excited about the, the governance and some of these other features from the white paper never got built.

[00:02:02] And so I realized like you do sometimes that you have to be the change you want to see in the world. And if I wanted those things to get built, I needed to step forward and come up with a plan to get them built and see if I could get people to help me. So that became the Telos blockchain.

[00:02:17] Warren Whitlock: [00:02:17] I know enough about you and what you’ve been, what you’ve been doing from other conversations that. You are not just the, this tech sock suck, the let’s make some better. And so to compete with EOS, and of course he yields is competing with the theory I’m in Bitcoin and like that on a lot of times we talking about crypto, it’s all we want to fix the faster, better, cheaper mode of doing this and Oh yeah, by the way, everybody that gets in early, it’s going to make a lot of money.

[00:02:43] But, really the, and that’s always a good motivation to be doing something because, you get off your buddy and you get it done, but really, what we’re seeing the world change. And when you look out five, 10 years, this is, this is a piece that we need. We need the kind of crypto that’s working and, correct me if I’m wrong.

[00:03:02] That’s, you’re not doing this hoping that the trading price is going to zoom up.

[00:03:07] Douglas Horn: [00:03:07] it would be wonderful. Yeah, it would be wonderful, but, one of the other things, and I didn’t want to overload too much of that answer before, but the other part that I didn’t add is that, After seven years in crypto, I was disappointed that just like with iOS, not coming out with all the features that people have been talking about.

[00:03:27] I was not really seeing projects actually coming out with the. With the ethos that had so attracted me to crypto and a lot of people to crypto in the first place. And I remember I’m just old enough to remember the, sort of the birth of the internet and how, and how we thought it was going to be this great democratizing process.

[00:03:46] So everyone could have a voice and then flash forward to what we have now in a sort of a Facebook kind of world where that’s absolutely not the case. where we’re at. These things are used against us. And in the same token, I felt that if somebody didn’t step up and actually try to build something that really, actually reached out for these values, that we all espouse, that it wasn’t going to happen.

[00:04:10] And so to do that, and the reason people don’t do that is you don’t make any money doing it, at least not for quite a while. so, I get why, I get why people. Do the way they do, but I felt like we needed to, I needed to, I felt like there are enough people out there who really believed that there was a vision for a new kind of internet, a new kind of have a network of people that wasn’t just based on.

[00:04:35] On what the trading price was today or tomorrow, but actually it was based on the technology and empowering people. And that’s what we built on. And because I think it’s important. I think it’s existential really. We’re either going to go down this road where authoritarian States, take a take over our lives or else we’re going to go down a road where we empower ourselves to, to be, Almost self-sovereign, to have, but have at least greater self-sovereign entity, at least greater control of our lives.

[00:05:03] Warren Whitlock: [00:05:03] you turn the answer midway through because I was about to interrupt and say, Hey, you’re talking about being a dichotomy and I’m a big fan of filing a false economy. The Academy and just about everything, that it’s not just the left or wrong, up or down, it’s a whole range of things. and then as you just said, it’s going to be more like, and that’s, and those are the kinds of terms that I like to use. We have values, we have directions we want to go, and they are different, but I’m fundamentally a commercial person who thinks in terms of how this is going to affect business.

[00:05:36] I even look at, how family relations work is something we’ll, it’s another task on my to-do list. Not that I don’t care about the, the end goal there, the bigger picture of my fellow man. I’m I consider myself to be as. As compassionate as they come, but I don’t turn that off because of business.

[00:05:53] I use business as a way to enhance that and look for a business solution. one of my favorite books, the last 10 years business solutions to prov poverty, that, we fix real world problems with business, but at the same time, speaking to the dichotomy part of this, there’s a F there’s a feeling and there’s some truth to it that people come along.

[00:06:15] I’m on the internet. I’m thinking it a great equalizer and also a great way to make money and along come people that say that kind of stuff, won’t get as good of a return. And my answer to those people are, they’ve done a lot of email marketing. My answer to those people are spam works, but that doesn’t mean I want to spam.

[00:06:35] Douglas Horn: [00:06:35] Yeah,

[00:06:36] Warren Whitlock: [00:06:36] it’s not just the ethical, legal definition of that. I don’t want to have, I don’t want my income to come in by hurting somebody else or clogging their inbox or doing anything like that. Quite often, the techs and early adopters. And I know in social media, a ton of this is the marketers come in and ruin everything.

[00:06:57]it doesn’t need to be that way. We can come up with better ways of interacting with people.

[00:07:01] instead of a dichotomy. Yeah. There’s some evil in there. the, you can start with the, don’t be, don’t do evil. That is Google and then just inherent in there and their size and governance.

[00:07:12] I, I refuse to think that Larry and Sergei, are sitting there thinking, how can we gain some more money? they’ve made it that way. They don’t need to be looking at how, but they’re running a business and obviously ended up doing things that people think they’re trying to take some money.

[00:07:30] And I don’t know where you come down on the whole Google thing, but yeah, Google left, don’t be evil as their only value a long time ago, but it’s murky. how do you choose right from wrong when everything’s gray?

[00:07:44] Douglas Horn: [00:07:44] True. True. True. But like you said, there are businesses. So, I don’t think business is a dirty word at all. I don’t think you were saying it is, but I think it’s important to end this conversation. Some people think it is, or some people think that’s what other people are saying. I don’t think it is at all.

[00:08:00] I think it’s really it. If you really think about it, it’s a way, it’s a, it’s a series of exchanges where people provide value that other people and then other people, pay for that because it’s. Because it’s given us something that fulfills a need of some sort. And I think that when I talk about democratizing that, really that it means that people have a more level playing field, whether you’re a kid in Nigeria or, a housewife in Venezuela or, somebody, or, or a businessman in Beverly Hills.

[00:08:28] Everyone right now there’s a very UN. Level playing field, very uneven playing field. And, and I think as these democratizing tools come in, it means that it levels it out, which basically, which hopefully, which means that we have the opportunity of getting new services and products and things like that from people who wouldn’t be able to give them.

[00:08:49] It’s my, I think about Mo what if the next Mozart is living in North Korea? Right or living in the slums of Mumbai or something like that, where they just, have all this potential, but no ability to ever have it realized. And I think that, even though it may not be that extreme, I think that scenario is playing out across the planet.

[00:09:08] Warren Whitlock: [00:09:08] Oh, yeah, you’re definitely preaching to the choir here. we

[00:09:12] Douglas Horn: [00:09:12] Cool man.

[00:09:12] Warren Whitlock: [00:09:12] billions rising about the people under $2 a day coming up and. That’s that actually the world is making a lot of progress there, but, and it’s really easy to start saying, Oh, people are poor and we ought to get rid of, Oh, one of my favorites is get rid of all, petroleum products and,

[00:09:29] Douglas Horn: [00:09:29] Good luck with that.

[00:09:30] Warren Whitlock: [00:09:30] against that.

[00:09:31] That sounds great. But at the same time, if I can do something, that’s going to reduce the carbon, coming out of a petroleum process by 50%. I shouldn’t get booed by the person who says we ought to get rid of a hundred percent. it’s let’s take some incremental steps, let’s get there.

[00:09:47] And again, I, that doesn’t mean I don’t have the same goal of wanting to get to the place, but I stopped dismissing everything that is on a hundred percent my way again, getting away from the dichotomies. So, in blockchain, I think, we had, Michael Turpin, on, and he was talking about it. It’s gone from where some big companies might need a website or some big companies might need a computer and big guys, big companies might be able to afford mobile phones, where those are all things that are common to everybody.

[00:10:17] And especially we’re going to run a business, which to me businesses, once you step outside the front door and deal with the world it’s business it’s transactions, it’s,

[00:10:27] Douglas Horn: [00:10:27] You don’t even just step eat. You didn’t even have to step outside the front door anymore.

[00:10:32] Warren Whitlock: [00:10:32] that’s true. That’s true. I met step

[00:10:34] Douglas Horn: [00:10:34] yeah.

[00:10:35] Warren Whitlock: [00:10:35] of people you’re dealing with, but, and I, as I just said, I would deal with, people under my roof in the same way of knowing they react to incentives and. And, what to do. I watch, my grandchildren and what they do and how they’re forming ideas.

[00:10:51] And at the same time, I know my two-year-old is not going to remember any conversation I have with her. so, I, and, greatest joy in my life is to have the two year old come over. And I realized those are very short interactions. she comes in, bypasses me, runs to grandma and I’m out of the picture.

[00:11:08] I still get the joy from that. I can’t put that in a ledger and say, this was the best thing to do with my time today. is it going to make more money? Because I did this, I believe there’s some effect on that, but it’s a different kind of an accounting, but it’s still transactions with other human beings. we talked with the other day about, about the guy, a guy that is, in, in his parents’ basement, stealing millions of dollars. So it’s on, a news piece on this and they’re like that guy can’t hate the whole world, want to burn it down because he’s got, a hundred million dollars’ worth of Bitcoin that he’s bald.

[00:11:45] He’s got to do something with that. Its currency is absolutely worthless if you don’t buy anything, just whether they’re going to bear your Bitcoin with you when you die. and it’s the same as really Fiats the same and all that kind of thing. But I think crypto becomes a lot more honest, but then getting down to how do I run a regular business?

[00:12:05] I think I’ve told you before about, I compare everything to the dry cleaner. How does this make a local business? Running a store or manufacturing, small goods or running a service business are all these people that are going to get involved with, with, crypto and blockchain.

[00:12:22] Douglas Horn: [00:12:22] I think they will in eventually. And I think it’s the exact same question that we were asking 20 something years ago when people said, are all these people really going to be on the internet, on the web? Come on. And of course, the answer is yes, they are. And you know how often they think about it?

[00:12:39] Not at all. they just, no one. No one spends time today thinking about HTTP and all these protocols, they just get on a website and that’s going to be exactly the same thing. That blockchain is

[00:12:52] Warren Whitlock: [00:12:52] Yeah. I sometimes look at the people that got on something later than me and I took all that, making sure my, TCP IP was added to my,

[00:13:00] Douglas Horn: [00:13:00] your Nat list.

[00:13:01] Warren Whitlock: [00:13:01] machine before I had, before it came out in the dos. And is that doing me any good? there’s some things taking a basic programming class in 1978. I think that’s helped to way that I think and do things, learning how to use an Excel spreadsheet when they came out. there’re some things that fundamentally changed the way I think, but it’s knowing how to get a PCP IP stack and give me any good. I envy the people that just wait around until they can just pick up their iPhone and it works.

[00:13:34] Douglas Horn: [00:13:34] Yeah, but that’s where we need to beat. That’s if you want to say, when do we get to mass adoption on something like Telos or any blockchain? It’s when they don’t have it’s when people don’t have to think about it and that’s for a while, I’ve been talking about what I call DAP 2.0, Yeah. We all talk about dApps now. And we, or we don’t all, but when people who are into crypto talk about dabs, they are talking about these decentralized applications that are very hard to use. You got to sign in with your, Medimap, you got to do this, you got to do all these things.

[00:14:03]and it’s, it makes it something that’s only accessible to a smaller amount of people. Until it becomes as easy until these dApps become so easy that you don’t, aren’t really aware that you’re using anything else other than just a regular app, Where you can basically logging in the same kind of auth type login that you might use with your Google or Facebook, or even logging in directly with those.

[00:14:25] Until you have that people aren’t going to, aren’t going to adopt it. So, like we, we’re building on Telos. We’re building a lot of things around that. We’re trying to build like a, our own version of Owasso. You can just log in with Telos. it’s called in fact, it’s called login with Telos and you can log into any doubt, you’re automatically logged into any DAP in any.

[00:14:46] App too. This is sensing you log in once and then you’re logged in and you’re not thinking about it. It’s the same as, just as if you were just logging into your computer, right? The first time these, this is where we need to get. This is if we want to have, if we want to have mass adoption,

[00:15:00] Warren Whitlock: [00:15:00] Yeah, absolutely. And the mass adoption is I remember this conversation on social media, internet PCs, computers in general, lots of other things that have come along that, you were looking at these incredible growth rates and this year there will be 40 million PCs made. And now it’s Billions per year, and it’s so much larger and so much different.

[00:15:26] We use it, the technology so many ways. and meanwhile, I forgotten what my phone number is. I pick up the phone, I push a button, it connects me. and I see the person’s picture, and act that way, that is if I make a phone call and I’m not just using email and, internet connection and, I have friends, older friends playing all the time.

[00:15:45] It’s just weren’t you never pick up your phone. I’m going like, I can’t find my phone half the time. The room I am right now. I don’t want it ringing while I’m talking to you. but we can instantly makes our zoom or Skype or whatever call and it just works. and, I can’t imagine telling grandma that she needs to know what her, 12 phrase passcode is to be able to generate a wallet, because then if you lose the wallet, you’re not going to have the money anymore.

[00:16:13] And to make it a lot easier to use.

[00:16:15] Douglas Horn: [00:16:15] and send it to me at zero X, one a B. Four nine, seven CD. Yeah. yeah, so that’s, all of these things that we work on Telos are built around this mass adoption and making things easier and making things, people not have to think about them and making things that are actual address actually addressing real needs, especially right now, because this is a period of time where everything’s accelerating.

[00:16:38] So like on a Telos name, Account name is, one to one to 12. characters, right? You can, so you can actually have your own name and then people can remember, they don’t have to worry about all the money being lost. If they get one character wrong in this, in this as long address.

[00:16:55] that’s a huge problem. That fear, right? there’s ways there’s smart contract control, ways that we can recover keys. There’s a lot of different strategies right now. because we can manage our permissions. there’s just a lot of these things we’re just take, we’re just taking the hurt and the pain out of these things.

[00:17:11] It’s no longer 10 minute or even, block times like Bitcoin or even 12 second with, like with Ethereum, it’s half seconds on Telos and we’re not doing, and we’re not doing things where, you know, Oh, yeah, it’s a $50 transaction fee today. it was $4 yesterday, but today it’s 50, like that’s very common right now on Ethereum to huge problem.

[00:17:34] But because we have such high capacity, we have essentially no gas fee whatsoever on Telos that’s when people are going to start using it when they, when it’s easy in that way. And that’s what.

[00:17:44] Warren Whitlock: [00:17:44] your transaction fee. That reminds me of a time when, I am using my credit card to buy something and they’d have a sign at the store. I imagine that’s still available someplace where the sign was put up and saying, MasterCard and visa for an extra dollar fee. and I remember the first time I saw that it was not the fact of whether or not I was going to pay the $3 or the 3% or whatever it was, yeah.

[00:18:08] Was that’s just adding friction. That’s adding hassle to me getting what I want.

[00:18:14] Douglas Horn: [00:18:14] Yeah.

[00:18:15] Warren Whitlock: [00:18:15] I love the idea, man. it’s one of the great joys of life. I remember going into a sandwich shop that I’ve been to many times before ordering my favorite brisket sandwich at the fire firehouse subs. And the order’s the same.

[00:18:31] It’s always that way. I’ve tried it with Phone ahead of the app and everything. but the one thing that I got was the time I went with my new iPhone and they said, just hold your phone here. And I realized I don’t have to get my wallet out or find the right credit card. and I don’t know why it is that no matter how many credit cards I have one or a hundred, and he’s always like figuring out which card to give them. and do I need a discount card or a rewards program or anything? No, I walked up, they said, yeah. what do you want? I tell them, I hold the phone somewhere near the terminal and I go crap, I’ve been reading technically about this for years, but when I actually did it, I realized that’s, that’s another 27 seconds.

[00:19:15] I don’t have to think. And hassle.

[00:19:18] Douglas Horn: [00:19:18] Yeah.

[00:19:19] Warren Whitlock: [00:19:19] to have an ongoing joke. I go to the sandwich, shop the deli or whatever, and they start asking questions on I’m going. I make decisions in my job all day long. I’m now taking a break and getting a sandwich. I shouldn’t have to answer this many questions, kind of cheese do you mean?

[00:19:34] You know

[00:19:36] Douglas Horn: [00:19:36] yeah,

[00:19:36] Warren Whitlock: [00:19:36] you want us to cut the meat? I don’t care. can you make me a roast beef sandwich and put the Mayo? I like on it. And remember that the next time I come in. And isn’t that one of the things we’re going to be able to do, because we do have all of this chatter we have about whether or not we’re getting privacy, where we want to give up the privacy.

[00:19:55] And we want it to be known like as easy as it was stamped on our forehead, that if I walk into your deli, this is the sandwich I like. And if I blink, then that means no, not that sandwich, number two, It’s and we’re not going to bother with whether or not you’re going to sell Warren pastrami.

[00:20:12] He just doesn’t like pastrami. I don’t know why I don’t like pastrami. I think it was too long of a word to learn how to pronounce. but and it should know all that and the IOT will just sense it to where we know all that. And we get permission. The system will take care of us.

[00:20:29] Douglas Horn: [00:20:29] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s where I think that’s where we’re really not far from developing something like that on Telos where you walk up you’ve, you’ve already pre-approved one time ever, this sandwich shop that can know your, these certain preferences that of yours.

[00:20:46] They can read it off your token, your preferences token, and you can unlock certain things for certain. Places and, you do it once and then, you’re, you have somebody do it for you, and then every time you walk up, it’s going to know what you’ve ever ordered from there.

[00:21:00]and maybe how many stars you gave it. And you can, and it’ll say. It’ll pop up your top three and Hey, you only hear one of your top three or do you want to try something new today? We’ve got this special, right? And it’s just all there. It’s probably on it. Before you even talked to a person it’s probably on a screen so that you can just make it super easy for everybody or it’s on your screen.

[00:21:18] It’s when your own screens, no one else has to

[00:21:20] Warren Whitlock: [00:21:20] and I come from a cheap, maybe even gypsy type background. and sorry if that is a stereotype. I apologize. I. I triggered something. the way I learned about the world, actually we called ourselves white trash, that, in our world it was where can you get the best bargaining clip, the coupons and things like that.

[00:21:40] And so it’s something in me that. Because I can go anywhere. I want to eat. I live in Las Vegas. There are thousands of places to eat that you’ll never been to. And some of them are fancy places in the hotel where the steak is worth another, $50 on top of the 150, you were paying at the other place, because of, gold trim or something.

[00:22:01] that’s never been appealed to me. So, Groupon came along, it’s tact, it’s marketing it’s stuff. I really care about. And it’s a good deal, so I’m constantly going into places going this is pretty cool. I’ve never tried. I have one right now for sticking my body in cold. I’m not the kind of person wants to do that or exercise or do anything of that nature to take care of myself.

[00:22:24] But, this is going to be pretty cool. I go stand in a really cold subzero thing for 10 minutes and I’m going to try it because it was, I don’t know under 50 bucks. and instead of having to go in there as if it, I’m mortgaging the house to sign up, to go in once a week. So it all, it was worth trying once.

[00:22:43] And, and those kinds of things I’ve been to, weird sandwich shops and non-chain restaurants. And I just had a great time with it. Now I’ve probably got 300 group on uses since they’ve had it. I’ve tried some of the other ones, by the way, Groupon gets this better than anybody. And they have grown.

[00:23:01] They have their problems with whether or not they’re the same fund company they were to start with. But out of all of them, I’m always dealing with a local business, with a local manager who does something in the early days. Actually some of them printing out a sheet of paper of who had bought the Groupon and checking me off.

[00:23:19] Nice, whatever other places where they have sticker business card into win, the free whatever. And I do. And other ones that are asking whether you want to be on the mailing list. I don’t see anything from any of those companies. One time, favorite breakfast place that I went to yesterday. I hadn’t been since the lockdown and, I go into the place and he said, let me see if I can find the app on the phone to do this.

[00:23:43] And he said, Oh, whatever rewards program you had before is gone. We now have a new app for that and you’ll need to sign up and I’m trying to check out now. It’s For $2 worth of premiums or whatever they’re giving me, I’m happy to change my life and go figure out how to use another app. and so I guess, and it’s a rant I got into here, but I wanted it to be that simple that when I’m walking in and I’m a good customer, That the proprietor of the business knows it’s me.

[00:24:12] And I don’t need a discount coupon in the mail every week. Although, that’s a lot of how some of us are thinking, what I really want is here’s something new. we’ve added a new dish, by the way, this restaurant did that, we’ve added a new dish or we have a new silly promotion of it’s your birthday, or, we haven’t seen you in a while.

[00:24:33] And that last one is the one really should have.

[00:24:38] Douglas Horn: [00:24:38] Yeah,

[00:24:38] Warren Whitlock: [00:24:38] know. I haven’t been in, I normally come in once every three weeks, but this time it’s been six weeks. Maybe that’s the time to reach out and say, Hey, and that, your very best customers doesn’t matter what your business is. You have the top 10, the top 50 top 100 customers who come in your regulars.

[00:24:59] And, you’ll reach a point in business where you can’t possibly know every one of those and how, how they’re connected to things, but your AI will be able to figure that out.

[00:25:09] Douglas Horn: [00:25:09] Yeah. that’s a great, that’s a great usage for the junction of, of AI and blockchain and even IOT. I think what you’re talking about, something that the payment systems, there’s some payment systems that are already built on Telos, but I think we have more coming and it’s really exciting.

[00:25:26] I think about this. You could just drop. NFT a non-fungible token. you could just drop that as a coupon and it, it expires in third in whatever time it expires in. Not at all or in 30 days or something, and then it just disappears. But if they use it, then they can, then they get their free, whatever.

[00:25:42] It’s all these, these are all systems that people are

[00:25:46] Warren Whitlock: [00:25:46] the way, pulling this back to real world, it’s stuff that I have seen and, or, studied where, a hair salon, decided to run a promotion. And, but first they went out and did a little bit of research. They found out that. Women with short hair come in twice as often as women with long hair.

[00:26:06] And when they determined that after six weeks they were going to offer a coupon, they didn’t need to bother doing that to the women with long hair because they were coming in on average every seven or eight weeks. And every time they ran a promotion to get your hair cut for cheaper business went up, but they were getting. Selling off the business that would have made more and they were able to get away from the I’ve got a discount and it’s for everyone. and so it’s so much against what the anti-business attitude of all these people are trying to do is just suck you in and sell you something. by the way, you don’t open the doors unless you’re trying to suck people in and sell them something.

[00:26:43] That’s the whole reason why we, again, why

[00:26:45] Douglas Horn: [00:26:45] you’re providing a service or a business you want, if people don’t buy it, you have nothing. So

[00:26:51] Warren Whitlock: [00:26:51] Exactly. It’s the whole premise of interacting with other people. And, no matter what you say, your altruistic way of going through life is if you’re going to interact with people, you’re trying to manipulate them in some way.

[00:27:04] Douglas Horn: [00:27:04] although sometimes it’s just trying to let them.

[00:27:07] Warren Whitlock: [00:27:07] but you’re always trying to manipulate people.

[00:27:09] Douglas Horn: [00:27:09] Yeah, absolutely. I think sometimes you’re trying to let them know about things that don’t exist yet. that’s the, that was the, you were in advertising and, that’s, the best kind of advertising is telling somebody about something that would be great for them and they just don’t know about right.

[00:27:23] And

[00:27:23] Warren Whitlock: [00:27:23] There’s and the absolute best is to find the person who is. Searching for what you want. And one of the beauties of working in search engine marketing is that, if you’re doing it right over time, it’s not a matter of, can you fool the algorithm? It’s can you provide something so that when just this morning, I looked for a locksmith for the first time I Googled that in like forever and I got down on an amazing thing.

[00:27:50] Google is certifying and offer you a refund. If you use one of the following. People. And then I looked down at the bottom for the view more results or whatever. It’s 80 in my section of Las Vegas, there are 80 locksmiths I can choose from and Google will guaranteed. I don’t get ripped off

[00:28:10] Douglas Horn: [00:28:10] Wow.

[00:28:11] Warren Whitlock: [00:28:11] know what that costs or how the business of it works or how they tied that into whatever else it is.

[00:28:16] I’m sure it’s not that that, Larry came by and sat down with the business and decided that he was going to back them. it’s got to be a lot more automated than that, but just the fact that it’s become that easy. I then logged into Amazon because, we needed this kind of key for the car.

[00:28:33] Amazon knows what kind of car I drive

[00:28:36] Douglas Horn: [00:28:36] Yeah.

[00:28:37] Warren Whitlock: [00:28:37] this product will work for your car. And, the more that I give up the information of letting them know about that, the better they can serve me. And I don’t waste my time looking to see that, they’ve got a really good boss I on Ford keys and I drive a Chevy.

[00:28:54] Douglas Horn: [00:28:54] Exactly. Yeah.

[00:28:54] Warren Whitlock: [00:28:54] care about the deals once in a while. Yeah. I may switch brand because there’s a special deal, but most of the time, I don’t want to switch brands because it’s. It is a better relationship. I define brand as a relationship with the customer. and I want to go over there. I don’t, I, I’m not going to drink Pepsi this week and Coke next week because of whoever was on sale. There are a lot of people that buy it that way, but over time you just don’t want to be bothered with that kind of thing. It’s gives me what I want. Give it to me at a fair price. Can you deliberate? Can, can I make it so that when I feel like having, a glass of root beer instead of a glass of water, I just turn on the tap and it knows.

[00:29:35] I see you just me. I see you just made a barbecue sandwich. I know you like root beer with that. Why don’t I just serve you, right?

[00:29:42] Douglas Horn: [00:29:42] Yeah. it’s a little borderline creepy, but it’s, but it is also, is also convenient.

[00:29:48] Warren Whitlock: [00:29:48] muscle. Let’s talk about that a bit. Isn’t that something that blockchain is going to allow us to do to switch from the company, trying to know more about us and us knowing more about what the company is. Us controlling. Our medical records become a thumb print, and when we walk out of the doctor’s office, he doesn’t have those records for somebody to steal.

[00:30:08] They’re only available when we’re there with our thumb print.

[00:30:12] Douglas Horn: [00:30:12] Precisely.

[00:30:12] Warren Whitlock: [00:30:12] of some things that they’ve got to keep their records for internal, but they don’t need, I don’t need to give a medical history and a full credit report, that stuff in a Manila folder inside my dentist office, he may need to know that stuff.

[00:30:26] He was going to give me credit or he’s going to, he wants to know, whether or not, there were some x-rays from my last visit, but he doesn’t need to know, what. Oh, anything other than what he can get off of a thumbprint and it’s attached, or my, it’s attached to my file, which, is basically more secure, more private than anything we got today.

[00:30:45] Douglas Horn: [00:30:45] exactly.

[00:30:46] Warren Whitlock: [00:30:46] is there a real, even a programmed, right? Is there a real issue with the fact that my information is in the cloud instead of in my pocket?

[00:30:55] Douglas Horn: [00:30:55] No. so right. What you’re talking about is that currently these big companies like Google and Amazon, they have their own sort of data, scrape of your existence. Then they, and they have their picture of you. What kind of car you drive? w what show do you like? what soup you bought?

[00:31:13] What all these things. And they’re able to extrapolate a lot and put things together through AI and all these things. So this data exists. They have it. it’s theirs, right? Even though it’s all about you, it’s theirs, right? The blockchain version of this, and you know that where Telos comes in, one of them is a as a high capacity blockchain that can have many, as a smart contract platform with a lot of uses.

[00:31:35] One of these uses is this self-sovereign identity where you can. instead of all these companies, having their individual, cookies about you, right? and learnings, and look at where you’ve been, you could control those. And then you could decide whether temporarily you want to, open up permission for them to better serve you.

[00:31:55] with that Infor, with that information, right? That’s on the sort of, you’ve kept a record of you own this record, and then you allow them to use it. And sometimes you allow people to use it to, you rent out your own stats because it lets them better serve you better. And and it’s a win for, and it’s a win for everybody.

[00:32:14] Or some people may have may say, Hey, I don’t, I just don’t want other people having this information about me

[00:32:20] Warren Whitlock: [00:32:20] Or I want to give that this information today, but not tomorrow.

[00:32:23] Douglas Horn: [00:32:23] Exactly

[00:32:24] Warren Whitlock: [00:32:24] should have that kind of control over it.

[00:32:27] Douglas Horn: [00:32:27] right.

[00:32:27] Warren Whitlock: [00:32:27] really means that an identity. Online becomes a big thing. And there’s a whole ‘nother can of worms talking about what to do with identity, because I think, having that being identified as a person is great.

[00:32:40] It always can be hacked. And so that’s, again, it’s a different discussion of better ways to protect it, but right now, Fact is I log on to Amazon and just go there instead of going to a store or a store site, because I know Amazon will remember what model car I have. And by the way, I forget, sometimes at home.

[00:33:01] I don’t drive much.

[00:33:03] Douglas Horn: [00:33:03] That’s

[00:33:03] Warren Whitlock: [00:33:03] I have the LX edition? Or what does LX mean? yeah, it sounds like luxury, it’s, I don’t have a luxury car. I don’t know what the LX is. Do I have a 2.4 or 2.6 engine in the car and that’s leaders and boy, Yeah, technically, I understand all that stuff, but I forget about it.

[00:33:23] Like my phone number. Isn’t that stuff I need to call one, wonder my mind with let Amazon know that. And of course their goal is it’s. It’s interesting. We’ve talked about Google and Amazon Google’s goal is if you enter something into the search and now they’re talking about, even before you entered into search, Google knows and sent you to the one best result for you.

[00:33:44] The, I feel lucky Amazon’s goal is to be able to ship you the product before you even know you need it. It’s not about the dash button or the easy reorder I use subscribe and save. I’m a big fan of it. but it’s no, wait a minute. we know that by now you have three extra bottles of this. We’re not going to bother to ship you one this month.

[00:34:06] or that based on your other purchases is good. I’m going to put it’s going to show up on your doorstep. Just go ahead and set the box back out on your doorstep if you don’t want it. And we’ll pick it up and take it back because we’re that good at predicting what you’re going to want. Boy, think of a time savings, the ease of life that knowing that, it’s like when my it’s like, when my wife gets it totally right.

[00:34:30] And knows exactly what meal I want to eat. before I even realize I’m hungry and she’s in the kitchen, cooking something for me with love, I’m going like, isn’t this a wonderful thing, grateful every day to have somebody that would be willing to do that sort of thing for me. and I think that the machines can take a lot of the burden out of that.

[00:34:50] Cause it was also a lot of days when it’s, what do you want for dinner? I don’t know.

[00:34:55] Douglas Horn: [00:34:55] Yeah.

[00:34:56] Warren Whitlock: [00:34:56] should we go out to eat? Oh no. Where do you want to go? I don’t know. Where do you want? and just in this endless trivial conversation and we could have a lot more fun,

[00:35:05] Douglas Horn: [00:35:05] Sure. I think that, like we were saying that the key is that you yourself have control over when your information is shared or not. and it’s something that serves your purposes primarily and not others. That’s important. I also think, we were talking about identity and another thing, and this is something we’ve actually built is, is a way for people to build more of a real identity.

[00:35:29] Not necessarily a, it could be a, it could be a something that’s, your government ID and whatnot, but think about the eBay seller rating ratings and rankings. I think one of the great I read someplace, I wish this were original to me, but that, one of the great failings of the last decade was that.

[00:35:47] eBay seller ratings never became a sort of a public unified, reputation system. because they were so good and you really understood, who is worth doing business with and who was not. So we build something like this, on Telos, it’s called the sentiment tokens, and it allows other people to basically say whether, whether they.

[00:36:09] Trust somebody, or even in a professional circumstance to vouch for them. So I told you that, for about 15 years I worked in film and television and a lot of that in production. And so in that world, you constantly are needing to build new crews. but it’s the same. And it’s very much the same in computer development that I’ve been doing for the last several years and was doing before it ever did that, you often need a good person and you don’t necessarily know, for one project, if somebody’s good for this or good for that, it.

[00:36:41] It would be great. I may know a lot of people, I may not know anyone who’s currently available, but if somebody that I know and trust vouches for this person, that means a lot for me. this system, the sediment token system that we built allows me to be to look at how many layers, how far away these people are.

[00:36:57] It’s Oh, somebody, I don’t know. There’s somebody, I don’t know, but someone I do know trust them or there’s somebody, I don’t know. And I don’t know anybody who knows that person directly, but I know three different people who trust somebody who trusts that person, that kind of system really broadens the world for us and helps us have better ways to connect to people.

[00:37:18] Warren Whitlock: [00:37:18] there are some celebrity actors where, their tastes in what movie they’re going to take NEC to do. Next is not an indicator of whether watch the film,

[00:37:28] Douglas Horn: [00:37:28] Yeah.

[00:37:29] Warren Whitlock: [00:37:29] but also there’s a lot that if they’re involved. That, not only do you like the characters they put, they’ve chosen to play, and maybe you have seen an interview with them or whatever, but them getting attached to something and directors and writers, even more somebody getting attached to a project, that’s it’s beyond bankable.

[00:37:47] It’s more like as just a viewer. I know I’m not going to waste my time. seeing this film or watching this TV show that is going to come, because it has some quality of the way that it, the way that it was made. So I watched the cast now and especially like I play an eye MDB because I want to know if the, same casting directors on three movies.

[00:38:09] I really liked, then I that’s an indicator.

[00:38:12] Douglas Horn: [00:38:12] Sure.

[00:38:13] Warren Whitlock: [00:38:13] keep track of all those in my head. So the future I am DB is going to be telling us, this has, people you given ratings to that, the catering is really good. I did have a friend who lived to be Southern California, but not that close to Hollywood in it, but I had one friend who went in and was driver for a famous TV star.

[00:38:32] And. After hearing his explanation of what that person did and what their attitudes were towards thing. It made watching that next TV show, a lot easier. I knew that, this person would never take a character that was, against these types. And even if they’re the evil character that doesn’t matter, it’s not, it’s not just the morals of the person.

[00:38:54] It’s the, whether or not I’m going to see quality. And I’m going to be surprised in what I’m doing. and so when you start thinking about these things that just, we have unlimited places to go. So I guess I have two ways to sum this up. One is there’s a lot of common things like, will I pay extra to get my dry cleaning when it’s an emergency or I might’ve kind of person that just doesn’t want to be bothered?

[00:39:18]and does that change or what are the indicators of that? and just the common stuff when I go to. When I go to order a hamburger, they know just not to bother putting a pickle on it, cause that’s going to be a hassle for them and for me, and that’s the common stuff. And then we started dreaming of what else would be available.

[00:39:37] first of all, 10 years ago, man, maybe about 10 years ago, maybe 15 years ago, for sure. I did have DMB handy on an iPad while I’m watching, while I’m watching the movies. And I, I didn’t learn these kinds of connections because, I haven’t got time for celebrity gossip,

[00:39:54] Douglas Horn: [00:39:54] Sure.

[00:39:55] Warren Whitlock: [00:39:55] just to see that my, my favorite directors, the guy may three of my favorite films, but I never bothered to figure out what the connection was now.

[00:40:04] Douglas Horn: [00:40:04] Yeah. and now people are constantly second screening and saying, Hey, what’s the, Oh, what else has she been in? And it doesn’t have to, it doesn’t have to be like on the tip of your tongue for, in bugging you can just go, Oh, is this yeah.

[00:40:15] Warren Whitlock: [00:40:15] Oh, yeah, that’s a, a fun game is I did this last week. I am most days wake up with some song stuck in my head. it might be from the sixties. It might have been from a TV show last night. but I’m just, humming it or somebody says a few words, I’m going to start thinking about it.

[00:40:31] And so I want to find something different and I use Spotify. I look up that song, let’s use the most famous of these yesterday. and I’m past needing to read the Paul McCartney wrote the song as scrambled eggs. so what I’ve heard that, I’ve seen Beatles documentaries.

[00:40:49] I grew up listening to them and then playing them on a radio station. I don’t mean to be entertained. There’s something new and fresh about the Beatles. I just want to know that, Hey, how many people have done a cover of yesterday?

[00:41:02] you start looking at that and all the people have tried to do it in a country, a polka version of the song, whatever.

[00:41:09] Just delightful fun that I’m getting depth that I couldn’t have ever got to. I know I worked in a radio station in the music department. You just couldn’t find the depth of the catalog to know about these things. And now we know that and you can find just the right thing.

[00:41:25] I’ve, I found out that I really hits from the sixties redone by lounge singers. I call them lounge singers. I don’t know if there’s a. bit of a crooner or somebody who’s a little or what my dad would call a jazz combo. somebody singing in a completely different style.

[00:41:41] And I have a couple that are just. Absolute favorites. And none of that would have existed if it weren’t for the ability for the data, get out there and let Moore know that he really likes, a certain type of music they never heard of. to say nothing about the diversity of understanding, what, what the music in Kenya is and how that might affect my life to the better, by understanding more of it.

[00:42:03] Douglas Horn: [00:42:03] You know that though, that’s so true. and this great amount of new information that’s available to us is really, creating a whole new and whole new way of interacting with other people and with art and with commerce and stuff, a minute ago you were.

[00:42:17] Warren Whitlock: [00:42:17] media, we learned that we can do, if I want to find other people that raise rabbits that live within a 50 mile radius, there’s probably a group that we can get together and there. And if I’m something that’s worldwide, I could talk to somebody who has a rabbit as pet in, In Taiwan

[00:42:36] Douglas Horn: [00:42:36] Yeah. I have a feeling that people raising rabbits might be a, it might be a growth crowing concern. If the economy keeps going. Yeah.

[00:42:45] Warren Whitlock: [00:42:45] be, then you got to define it. Are you raising them for food? Are you raising them for fun? You’re raising them, are you raising them? Cause you were just stuck with the kid, wanted a bunny. And we did that once our bunnies, I think we had three of them and, not a week for, they were all completely gone running away or whatever.

[00:43:02]and, and the whole goldfish thing and everything like that. But the someplace that took that became somebody’s hobby. and it’s so much more fun to talk to about talk to your fellow, samurai sword collector.  and I think that’s why, we lament that people don’t know their neighbors, like they used to, and I go no, I know my neighbors, but my neighbors aren’t the people that live in the house next door.

[00:43:26] Douglas Horn: [00:43:26] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They’re your sort of your digital community, that’s for sure. Although, you were talking before about a little bit about small businesses and things like that. and I think that community, small businesses are really important. I think if you think about the, The way that the way the communities are going right now, where the economy is going right now, I think that you and I were talking about this offline a bit, there’s a lot of companies and a lot of, small to medium-sized towns that, that are going to be, or that are really struggling right now.

[00:43:56] Restaurants, there’s in the town next to me, there’s a small town really near me. there’s a movie theater. And these are businesses that are all going to have a very hard time staying in business. and yet, because of, all the lockdown and just economic everything, and yet peak communities want to keep them. and so, one of the things that we’re working on Telos actually is a way to create some tokenization for these companies because what’s happening is. They owe their landlords a lot. The landlords can’t afford to just say no, but they just can’t afford to just, forgive those debts.

[00:44:29] But they also can’t afford to have their, places empty. And unmaintained. And. And, but banks, none of the banks are actually going to be offering any loans, just like in 2008 when they were all bailed out and they, and no, none of those loans fell flowed down to smaller communities, smaller community businesses.

[00:44:44] The same thing is happening right now. And so blockchain is actually a way to tokenize these businesses. And I think this is going to be something, a means of keeping these things alive of last resort, where communities can come in and say, okay, Sure. Do you know, on Telos, they’ve built this tokenization thing that’s really cheap and easy to use, but we can track who’s made contributes contributions.

[00:45:07] the. The landlords can be if they choose to be, can be paid back, since there’s no cash, they can be paid back in these coins. And these things can become community currencies. Or this is a, this is something that’s happened in all these really big term downturns, whether they’re whether the great depression or even the great recession or in other air in other countries, there’s a con there’s a combination of community currencies.

[00:45:30] That are used because people don’t have actual hard money, but they, but you need to keep the, current, the local economy moving. So, it’s not just barter. and then you also have ways to. Hold value in these companies so that, so that they can make it to the other side and so that their community can support them and keep them alive because everyone wins.

[00:45:51] So we’re really looking at just looking around us in the cities. We live in a lot of them. Tell us folks are just we’re not like regular crypto folks because we, we built the way we built. A lot of us still have second jobs or live in small communities. And we’re not in hiding out in, in Puerto Rico, talking to other millionaires where we’re in small towns and.

[00:46:10] And cities. And so, we see what’s happening. And so, we’re building these platforms to really address what’s happening with the real needs are. So, we’re doing a lot of things around voting, right? We’re doing we’re we built this system called Telos suicide, which is, going to. Fix the, the one system that’s never really been fixed, even with all tech is, voting, right?

[00:46:30] we still check, put, check marks on a piece of paper and pass them around and count them. that’s literally how all voting happens. and, and so we can, we’ve built teller society as a way for any. Any system to any app or DAP or whatever, to have transparent immutable voting.

[00:46:47] And we built this, like you and I were talking about, this is like the Linux of new voting. It’s open source. It’s basically free to use my own company. Good block is, wants to be the red hat of this, and there’s a lemon, there’ll be several that are there’s several companies that will be building out systems for people as a professional version.

[00:47:05] But imagine every homeowner’s association and every sports club and every local, small town community and every school board could just. Deploy and essentially free voting platform for themselves. It’s all on mobile apps and nobody has to come down to the community center to, to vote.

[00:47:23] And nobody has to try to get people to have a quorum because instead of passing people, pieces of paper around with marks on it, we’re actually doing it in a pure, in a, in a. a really truly unfakeable, way on Telos with teller, suicide, and we’re. And once we do, once you have that, then you can use that as a way to, help tokenize businesses so that they can, stay in business, but also keep their, the people.

[00:47:48] who funded them, in, in the loop in terms of major business decisions, right? That’s the ways that we’re really trying to affect people’s daily life, right? Not just, I think what you’re talking about is fantastic and those are awesome, but a lot of those, a lot of those, A lot of those innovations have already happened because those, search and those things have been created or disrupted.

[00:48:10] search used to be looking in the yellow pages. so, the yellow pages got disrupted with Google and that’s happened. And now what we’re talking about is ways to take that to the next level where it’s better because it’s because privacy is brought back into it,

[00:48:23] Warren Whitlock: [00:48:23] It’s interesting. What you said about the, the voting and you would be talking about the theater and which, usually in that kind of a discussion, what can we do to support our local businesses? And I’m a, Oh, I guess I’m a curmudgeon. I’m going to yeah, sure. We’re going to do that again.

[00:48:39] You don’t save the downtown. Hey, the mall opened up. People are going to shop at the mall. Let’s stop trying to get people to stop. move back there, shopping at the old department store. and a cynic, would be the right word for the, my, a cynical attitude about this. But if you really want to do something to help those people, the help is a lot more than I’m going to go to the movie theater and watch a movie.

[00:49:03]at this particular location because it’s good. And by the way, I’ve done it as we had a shut down and then restaurants reopened. I go in, I do want to support my local business. So even though I’ve got food, I’ll go ahead and order some in, cause it is one of my favorites or I’ll go to the restaurant and sit there by myself with the whole mask rules or whatnot, because.

[00:49:24] And then I leave a big tip cause I’m helping out. I get S and the sediments hard because of a business isn’t doing well. It’s not going to survive. If it has bad management, it’s got bigger problems than I can fix by, by encouraging my friends to eat at that restaurant.

[00:49:41] Douglas Horn: [00:49:41] And also your desire to do it is a little bit limited, right? So, this blockchain is excellent at, at aligning incentives. Long-term right.

[00:49:49] Warren Whitlock: [00:49:49] in the voting part of this in, and I started thinking like, wait a minute, the people affected. Let’s use your theater. As an example, the people affected are still a large number of people. And we’re not going to change this overnight to where they all are voting on blockchain or whatever.

[00:50:05] But you can throw in that. You’re going to help. I think of what Cory Doctorow said in a down and out in the magic kingdom, in the world where currency has gone away, where automation has taken care of everything, where you can live forever with a cologne body, And then what is it people want to do?

[00:50:22] There’s some people that just actually like going to the magic kingdom and really working on the pirates of Caribbean. And it’s something that Disney never thought of, but Disney’s long gone because we don’t have corporations anymore.

[00:50:34] Douglas Horn: [00:50:34] That’s the star Trek economy, actually, which would be great.

[00:50:38] Warren Whitlock: [00:50:38] Yeah. They don’t spend any money in star Trek.

[00:50:40] Douglas Horn: [00:50:40] no. but they all pursue there. that’s.

[00:50:43] Warren Whitlock: [00:50:43] pursue. Yeah. And so if the voting type mechanisms, instead of saying is this going to be more efficient about how we can do a yes, no vote or vote for one of the two party? It’s like, how can we come up with something who’s better and bring that innovation into whatever it is we’re trying to do.

[00:51:02] We may find out that there’s somebody that just wishes they had a place to meet. And the theater wishes, they had more people coming in, but the only way they have to do it is do you want to rent out the theater? there’s maybe some other answer to that. You and I don’t have to decide what that is, but somebody could.


[00:51:19] Douglas Horn: [00:51:19] I think about that every day, though.

[00:51:20] Warren Whitlock: [00:51:20] or we show a movie at plus something else or dinner theater,

[00:51:24] Douglas Horn: [00:51:24] Right?

[00:51:25] Warren Whitlock: [00:51:25] once we know the parameters of what people want instead of the poor businessman, having to think of how am I going to compete with the national chain?

[00:51:33] w one, one of my trope beside bring out all the time. As I used to own a business located across the street from where they were building a Walmart. And the retailers would be complaining about going out of business. first of all, we had some service, and we pivoted a bit, we stopped worrying about that.

[00:51:49] We offered convenience and we literally had people come in to buy something at list price that we said, yes, Walmart has this for less. Please go over there by it, bringing it back. Cause we, we needed to complete the service. or go, and I would tell you what their price is over there.

[00:52:06] Because I know what it is. not there to try to talk them into, I can make a better deal than Walmart. Our business was thriving in the, in the little piece of that. We were selling some computer supplies and, our biggest problem was having the variety of the, the printer inks in stock.

[00:52:24] And we were able to double our inventory and make. Three times as much money, because we were able to take care of people, the people that were in a hurry and didn’t want to go shop around to save some more money. We were able to help them. And, maybe they were paying us $250 a bill and we were getting hung up on whether or not we could save them $5 on an ink cartridge, I mean there’s, and we only knew that because we were talking to our customers.

[00:52:52]and I’ve also worked at a place where a large mall opened up and people were putting up signs even before the mall opened. We’ve been mauled, we’re going out of business, and giving up a couple of those businesses were just thriving. They pivoted, they changed what they were doing. So I use that as an innovation in retail kind of story and marketing before, but I’m thinking like one of the things those guys could do, the ones that did a smart was talking to their customer. The ones who had trouble, hated when customers came in and bothered them while they’re running their store are the ones that went first, just gone out of business. Didn’t matter whether they had a cheaper rent or a better inventory supply than one of the chains or whatever. They didn’t have that friendly service that makes you want to shop at the local business.

[00:53:42] But today with a little bit of innovation, you have a governance. Gosh, if nothing else, you could turn your business into a nonprofit community, thing that’s, governed by the customers and then just work as an employee of the group.

[00:53:56] Douglas Horn: [00:53:56] Yeah, or a for-profit.

[00:53:58] Warren Whitlock: [00:53:58] could be done.

[00:53:59] Douglas Horn: [00:53:59] even better a for-profit right. So we look at the, a lot of these situations let’s talk about that movie theater also had trouble in 2008. For similar reasons because the economy was down. but, and they, they did all the things that local businesses do.

[00:54:13] They did, they said, Hey, please come out. We want to stay late. They did outreach. They were, they did all these things. Let’s keep this alive in the community. and one of the things they did was ed mix them upgrades. they sold some tiles for the concrete, with people’s names and them for the four out front.

[00:54:29] And that’s a way people memorialize who helped, build the park or build the bit, or keep the business growing or whatever. that’s happens all over the town all over the place. But. That is limited. We take that now in how could people take the next step?

[00:54:45] The more advanced step in that at a time? if you want right now, people to go to a restaurant or people to go to, to a movie theater, it’s very hard because a lot of places they’re just locked down or people are not going to go to movies. You’re going to watch them at home. Purely because of concern of the virus.

[00:55:01] Right? and so there’s no way to just support them. So what people can do though, is buy these, they could buy these tokens, and these tokens, and the nice thing is, number one, it’s doing something for the business. But if the business grows at these, if these tokens are end up selling, sharing revenue, For in the future, right?

[00:55:21] then these people could make money, make money off these, or they could sell them for a higher price. And so people can actually say, Hey, I believe in this local business, I think it’s going to do well. these guys could never afford to do a stock type offering or anything like that because of all the costs around it.

[00:55:38] But there’s a way to do these tokens that, the people could get in and they could be, these, the tokens could be. Created as, meal vouchers in the future. So they don’t look, they don’t look like they’re, or community coins. So they don’t look like they’re a security.

[00:55:51] And yet at the same time, they can do a lot of these revenue sharing things. And if the company does bounce back and is successful, they can actually gain in value. I know that’s at the edge of, the, how we test, but there’s. In the meantime, if they can vote on, people can have some governance if it, and it lets people say, Hey, you guys are really doing this thing wrong and we want it to go in this direction.

[00:56:14] they can vote. And

[00:56:15] Warren Whitlock: [00:56:15] back to that. the thing we were talking about, the, where should we go to eat? I don’t know where you wanted to go to eat conversation that we’ve all experienced.

[00:56:23] Douglas Horn: [00:56:23] sure.

[00:56:23] Warren Whitlock: [00:56:23] thousand times, most of us are looking for something else to do. We may be default to, Oh, we’ll have the same meal we always have and sitting in front of the TV and watch the same show.

[00:56:33]and some of us like doing that’s the idea of relaxing at home or anything. And then some of us just go I’d like to do something, but I don’t really know. I don’t know what all my friends are doing and anything we do that adds to that community. It’s not like you have to have a leader.

[00:56:48] You don’t have to invent. The, I keep thinking about tacos. I don’t know. Maybe it’s the time of day. but I’m thinking

[00:56:54] Douglas Horn: [00:56:54] I’m always thinking about

[00:56:55] Warren Whitlock: [00:56:55] a taco night at the movie theater, as just something I haven’t heard of before, that might be the one thing that really gets people to come because you make a deal with the taco stand.

[00:57:06] but maybe not. And what we have now is the ability to try more of these things, to individualize more of these things, to know, to listen to more of our audience. Instead of having to say, we need to be generic and reach everybody. and, just, I think we have a, just a great opportunity to be able to take these, these friction reducers and put them into what we’re doing.

[00:57:31] And I, and today we’ve been talking about a whole bunch of ways, views it, creative and innovation. And other times it’s just I want to transfer money and it costs so much to do the real cost of me sending a wire is having to go to the bank and wait in line and fill out a form.

[00:57:49] Douglas Horn: [00:57:49] Yeah. But the 20 bucks wire fee, is no treat either. And being able to do it for free just off your phone is fantastic.

[00:57:56] Warren Whitlock: [00:57:56] to solve the problem. I’ve got one going on. We have an operation where we have five people in different countries, and we have to pay the people every month. And it just turns out that we’ve got a couple that are PayPal and it’s no big deal. Another one where it’s a PayPal and we were using zoom.

[00:58:16]the zoom with an X that’s the part of PayPal and it was working, but somehow they cut that off and then we have another one that just can’t do it that way at all. And so we are actually sending a bank wire transfer between once a month and I go no, I just want to convert that to crypto and just say, this is how much we’re going to pay you.

[00:58:37] Figure out how to get it back into your currency. It’s five people. So this has become a thought exercise rather than

[00:58:45] Douglas Horn: [00:58:45] Yeah, but it could be 5,000 people. So what

[00:58:47] Warren Whitlock: [00:58:47] I had 5,000 people, I’d have a solution like this, I’d say we’re going to pay, we’re going to pay you in, and Telos and, or there’s a claim based on Telos and you can exchange it for whatever most of

[00:59:02] Douglas Horn: [00:59:02] I don’t know why using Telos, frankly. so on, tell us we’ve built this, and you can do a no transaction fee half second. And you can, you could send, tell us, or you could send equals D T, or you can

[00:59:14] Warren Whitlock: [00:59:14] actually the one, yeah, we’ve just had a guy moved, but the guy was in Macedonia it turns out it’s not in the EU, but surrounded by the EU, just North of Greece and has some different banking laws. And they have PayPal, but buddy, but he couldn’t, his business could not. Send us an invoice and get paid with PayPal.

[00:59:36] there’s no business accounts allow. And so no matter what we did, we kept looking into things and are going to it’s cheaper to pay this pay stupid wire again, that families just moved from Macedonia. So it’s a moot point, but then we’ve had this discussion about how much it would be easier to pay in another currency, but let’s get a little bit bigger picture.

[00:59:57] Most people aren’t. aren’t entirely the way in their structure of life is not wed to the idea that they need the cash. They need to do certain things and certain transactions need to happen to make that work. But the average working person. is thinking of the job as something that gives them money.

[01:00:18] But yeah, they want something more out of it. This is the, it’s a goal. They want to feed their family. They want to go on a trip. They want to do something. tax laws, privacy laws, all of these transactions. Impediments we have is we worked them out. And, we find out that really what this guy is saving his money for working overtime for is so that he can then post TAC be able to afford the vacation that he needs to go to, go visit the relatives for the holidays or whatever.

[01:00:47] And you find out you’ve got a deal where, you know, Oh, we own a plane. just to oversimplify the example, you can take care of somebody without paying them cash. And so much of that benefits and rewards is everything about how we can make something cheaper, how we can attract somebody with a discount, a government regulation, all that kind of thing.

[01:01:08] We get back to just being people, like in the world of the magic kingdom. in the future, you know what I want to do? I want to go to Atlanta. I’d like to see the sites there. How do I get there? let me tell my intelligent device. I need to go there.

[01:01:28] Douglas Horn: [01:01:28] you’re either, you’re seeing the beginnings of this in defy now. So we have these, we have, so we have these. Coin swap mechanisms that at first, just swap one coin for another, but then as you get more of these you’re they can, they, you can put some smart, you can put some AI in front of them.

[01:01:46] That’ll go and look at all the options. And it’ll find you the most economical way to get from token a that you have to token L that is, is, airline points, right? so those.

[01:01:58] Warren Whitlock: [01:01:58] so that, so it’s not about how I can make the best deal. It’s about how I can get done, what I want to get done and let the AI take care of making sure that it’s a fair deal or best deal. Depends. we have different parameters. I want to go, it was use Atlanta, it’s cross country for me.

[01:02:15] There’s regular flights. I know I can go there, but I know when I need to plan a trip, I better plan on what I’m going to do. What I’m going to do in the time I’m waiting for the plane and TSA. And am I going to be able to carry everything I need? When I went, I really want to do is push the button, tell Uber that I’m going to Atlanta instead of the airport.

[01:02:35] And then, in which hotel I want to stay at, or which friend I’m going to see, and then it just says, what car will come around, get in the car. The rest is taken care of. No, lines are, and it’s something that we know works because that’s how if you own your plane and you go that way, but all the technology is there.

[01:02:54] All these systems can talk to each other and it can work out that,

[01:02:58] Douglas Horn: [01:02:58] Yeah.

[01:02:59] Warren Whitlock: [01:02:59] to remember is that I hold up my phone and it has a blue light when I land in. in Atlanta? No, I don’t need to remember that because it will tell me it will automatically program.

[01:03:09] Douglas Horn: [01:03:09] Yeah. a lot of those

[01:03:11] Warren Whitlock: [01:03:11] of the big castles of a flying someplace.

[01:03:13] I have to figure out where is the ride SharePoint place before I can order the car?

[01:03:19] Douglas Horn: [01:03:19] right.

[01:03:20] Warren Whitlock: [01:03:20] ought to say you’re a gate 17. Follow these directions go down this escalator, and this is the way, like a GPS map and walk to this place. And when you get the baggage plane, you don’t have a bag.

[01:03:34] So walk through this door instead of finding the place where the sign says, go to rideshare and there’s in so much in simple transactions, what we do every day we can automate and improve. and like you say, we could track the big thing has happened to track it. So we know it gets done and it’s done, I don’t want to wind up, on a plane or somebody I don’t replace. I don’t know where it is, and I have to abort the whole trip. And at the end of the month I got a bill for it. to like free travel ought to be not about the price of travel. It ought to be freedom to travel.

[01:04:08] And I just decided, okay, I better remember. I, I need a passport app on my phone and, and that’s it knows I’m ready to travel any place in the world.

[01:04:19] Douglas Horn: [01:04:19] And a lot of those services are, pieces of them exist. And so plumbing those altogether, like welding all together is not going to necessarily take that long for less time. It’s I know that sort of the vision you’re talking about seems a little science fiction to people, but I think you’ll stuff like that will be here a lot sooner for people who want to participate in the token economy.

[01:04:41] But there’s also, on the way there’s going to be a lot of people who are still going to be wanting to participate in the, the fiat or the semi FIA, where you’ve got, you’re still dealing in national currencies, like us dollars or euros or something like that, but tokenized versions.

[01:04:56] And so one of the things we built on Telos is. It’s really exciting as you can move, not just Telos and not just tokens built entirely on Telos, but we can actually, we’ve actually got Bitcoin, Ethereum, USD, T and USB-C, we’ve got stable coins for even things like South African Rand and, and more, a lot of African currencies actually.

[01:05:17] And, and so these things are coming because people do want to be paid in those ways and you could. As a second layer to something like Ethereum or Bitcoin, you can move Bitcoin around. Instead of once every 10 minutes, you can move it around every half second. and instead of having to pay, $13 to make a Bitcoin transaction, it’s free.

[01:05:38]So these things, and so then at that point, smart contracts can control all of these things because it doesn’t matter if you’re transferring them around, 15 times because it’s happening and it’s happening in seven, seven and a half seconds. And with no

[01:05:51] Warren Whitlock: [01:05:51] Yeah. and we’ll watch the, the appears in a movie, scripted or somebody, it says, yeah, w we can cover the bail money. I’m going to have to move some money around. and know the Mo move the money around the rich. Don’t have to, they have a finance guy that takes care of that, but in the future, yeah.

[01:06:08] I can do some things that make that happen. And it’ll be because instantly you’ll know your phone or your eyewear or whatever, telling you. We’ll just say, this is going to be okay.

[01:06:19] Douglas Horn: [01:06:19] Yeah.

[01:06:20] Warren Whitlock: [01:06:20] is, I think what the certainty that we want out of things, you combine this with the idea that, so many locked up assets will that theater, when it sits empty.

[01:06:30]so many of the, seats that don’t have somebody sitting in on a plane, and there’s so much extra capacity plants that could be producing more. bet. I know I got into barter for a while. There’s 30 years ago. and when it was new on the internet and was just so exciting to try to find things, to make the deal, but it was very limited because it was only the people participating in the program.

[01:06:53] Douglas Horn: [01:06:53] right.

[01:06:54] Warren Whitlock: [01:06:54] have an AI going out and saying, how do I make the next best deal to be able to go in further, whatever I want to do, what then I can really say. That if I decide what I want to do more than ever everything is to get to some place because there was a protest about a cause I care about, I’m going there because the cause makes sense.

[01:07:15] And I instantly know whether I can fund it. It’s not, one of the things is I’ve got to fly across the country who needs a carrier who needs a tutor and wants me on them. On their, private jet to, to give them an update about how crypto works. and for that, I get a free plane ride and skip all the line and that all ought to be, I’ve talked to people doing, jet rentals and, the, what the fractional part of a jet.

[01:07:46] And basically, they’re saying like our technology is set up, it’ll work with a Southwest seat. it’s they’re going after the market that can fund it to begin with, but idea is if there’s, is this a worthy cause or a way to get it done and what you want more than anything is to make sure you’re in Baton Rouge next week.

[01:08:05] Douglas Horn: [01:08:05] Yup.

[01:08:06] Warren Whitlock: [01:08:06] to get you there. That’s not talking about it, hurting somebody else to have you do it. And of course, Keeping in mind that you still pay your way, but it figures out how you pay your way when you’re, when you just never thought about it before. you’ve got this, Hey, as simple as, you got a house that’s going to be sitting empty, we’ll rent that out to somebody and we’ll, let somebody drive your car.

[01:08:29]and, and you’ll go on the road. And when you get back, there’s no bill to pay because of this. Or maybe there’s a. A small transaction fee, because as you’re saying, Telos is cutting out a lot of that transaction fees

[01:08:42] Douglas Horn: [01:08:42] Yeah.

[01:08:43] Warren Whitlock: [01:08:43] it’s still a finance, industry pulling a little something out of it.

[01:08:47] Out of every transaction we have in life. It’ll be us doing business with you, each other. And it just gives us so much more opportunity to humble innovation, progressive ideas, whatever you want to call it.

[01:09:00] Douglas Horn: [01:09:00] Absolutely. And that’s why we’re, that’s why we have built and keep building these tool sets on Telos. We have this amazing capacity. If you were look@blocktivity.info, you’ll see that Telos has for almost the past a year, been the second highest number of transactions daily of. Any blockchains.

[01:09:17] And it’s, and second, only to EOS, which is the same protocol and, underlying, and we could match right by many times, in times more than Ethereum and things like that. And, and so when you have that capacity and then you have these. Tool sets that are only on Telos, like Telos decide the voting and governance engine.

[01:09:34] And some of our other things, some of our systems for moving around different kinds of tokens, moving the Bitcoin for free and faster and moving, having all these things and some of the defy or other finance. Platforms that are coming in. that there’s a real amazing sort of toolbox and set of Legos for building all kinds of things so that, you’re talking about these amazing future businesses that are probably not that far off in the future.

[01:10:00] And the reason these are going to come. is because there’s the tools. Or if you look into the other way, the reason why don’t we have these things yet. And the, the reason we don’t have these things yet is they have to be built on something. And until you provide the tools for things, they, they simply don’t exist.

[01:10:15] this is why we see have seen technology explosions. When you see, when you have the internet and or then the web suddenly has all these uses for it. because people know how to build them, and they apply it a bunch of different ways. It’s like somebody, the first guy to invent a hammer suddenly most had value.

[01:10:30] Or, and so that’s what, so that’s why we’re building a tool set. Tell us is really built to be this platform, underlying all these many systems that are going to stitch together the way you’re talking about and ways we don’t even imagine yet. but to have it, people need to have this very.

[01:10:48] The high capacity, inexpensive token, like Telos. And, and we think it’s just going to explode in usage and, one would hope that the value would match the usage, but we’re, but our main thing is let’s make sure that we can make something that’s really useful and Hey, while the price happens to be low right now, it’s actually a great way for us to get into, Developing nations, developing economies.

[01:11:11] We have a huge, people are really excited. What about this in places like Ghana and Nigeria and places like that, where we’re and Venezuela and Argentina and all these places that are struggling with economic and governance challenges right now where they have young populations.

[01:11:26] the average age of the, of the population in Nigeria, I believe is 19 years old. these are these guys who going to be the total future. They’ve. They believe they’re leapfrogging us in some of these techs, because

[01:11:37] Warren Whitlock: [01:11:37] They’re not their future is not going to be a reflection of our past. they’re coming up with better ways and easier ways to do things. Kanye’s went from unbanked to, a hundred percent banked in the last five, six years because of MPesa

[01:11:51] Douglas Horn: [01:11:51] yeah.

[01:11:52] Warren Whitlock: [01:11:52] the money on a phone. And I was just finished another long book on, the economics of the port.

[01:11:58] I believe that’s actually the title of the book. It’s not a brand new book, but it’s a one I hadn’t finished reading and sometimes I just finished that up. And the thing I got out of it was the innovation. And we did that as we were working on billions rising, the same thing. It’s not that there are these poor people that are sitting there waiting for our handouts, our charity.

[01:12:20] They’re coming up with better ways to do things. One of the, one of the stories we had in our book was the guy that, was in night in, capital of Nigeria. Lagos’ and he had a business. That w would take a port-a-potty, and put it in a place where there’s a lot of public dedication going on, giving them a better way to do it, charging the shilling or whatever fuel price it was.

[01:12:44] And there were poor people that wanted jobs and they, and you would have a porta-potty that was, with the bathroom attendant and well taken care of, we basically he had to, move the things around. And he got, the equivalent of a Brent on them, but he created a business with hundreds of these that, basically from what hear would be just, a nuisance, an eyesore to see a porta-potty.

[01:13:08] And I, I loved that story because, it’s talking about poop and I’m a 12 year old boy. but,

[01:13:14] Douglas Horn: [01:13:14] But it’s great because you’re talking about something where somebody, yeah. people are really innovative, and they saw a need. it’s better for, it’s better for this population. People are, don’t have to defecate outside. There’s not a bunch of,

[01:13:28] Warren Whitlock: [01:13:28] for the guy that’s manufacturing. Port-a-potties

[01:13:31] Douglas Horn: [01:13:31] it’s better for every, yeah. Somebody gets a job.

[01:13:33]somebody managing that’s, it’s even better ecologically because the, because it’s better to, to process that human fun after the lint in, this image in a better way, all those things are pluses and yeah, I absolutely agree that.

[01:13:46] Warren Whitlock: [01:13:46] stopped because he was poor.

[01:13:48] Douglas Horn: [01:13:48] Yeah, that’s what we’re talking about.

[01:13:50]a few more than a few minutes ago now, but we were talking about this idea that all over the world, there are people who are, who have amazing potential and ideas and we just unknown untapped, but they’re stymied by their economic situation. And Bye bye.

[01:14:05] Create now giving this to this set of tools to these guys all over the world, but we look at what they’re doing in Africa. It’s fantastic. When you look at the M-Pesa story, how they went into Kenya and I think then later to Uganda and then India, but just in, M-Pesa has been a, it, which is a payment platform for those who don’t know there was no banking in essentially it was very little banking, right?

[01:14:26] All banking in Kenya is very much down either in these little banking clubs that are mutual lending clubs, or it was, it was very hard to get a bank account. And so it was very hard for people to do commerce. And so M-Pesa came in. It’s a, it was actually, they came in on the mobile phone, so they controlled the mobile phones.

[01:14:44] they were, Vodafone is the company was called Safari phone or Safari. Calm. I think it was, and they were actually a Vodafone, I think, subsidiary in the area, but they had the moat, they locked up the mobile market. And so they

[01:14:57] Warren Whitlock: [01:14:57] actually I re I, as I recall Vodafone, and some others were trying to do it and Vodafone ended up buying the company that developed it.

[01:15:05] Douglas Horn: [01:15:05] Oh, they could be very that. I don’t know that,

[01:15:08] Warren Whitlock: [01:15:08] again, it’s the innovation, but then it just more basic. Of, I’ve got

[01:15:12] Douglas Horn: [01:15:12] what more than one? Sorry, one second.

[01:15:14] Warren Whitlock: [01:15:14] with, I can put it out for a yard sale.

[01:15:17] I might sell it on eBay. I might give it away as charity and the value that is locked up in that kind of like idle goods sitting around that may or may not deteriorate and get thrown in the trash or just be summit and antique a hundred years from now. That kind of value can be unlocked and used and accelerate all sorts of things.

[01:15:39] Times 7 billion people, times all the other tricks we have to innovate. If we can figure out a way. So we’re not talking about FinTech as modern, better banking to beat somebody else. And I think I said at the start of this was that it’s interesting that you got started trying to do something better than, the crypto that was out there, but.

[01:16:01] When we start thinking about the world of, a thousand, a million times as many transactions is what they’re doing today. That speed is going to be great. There will be things that are better, you will improve as will other, but it’s just the fact that we’re no matter what we’re doing, we’re on the right path.

[01:16:17] And we’re looking at how can we make things frictionless? for the future. So that’s exactly why I do the show. We knew need to, I, I won’t call a paying the bills cause it’s not going to be a commercial, but we need to know if I’m excited about Telos and I want to know more, where do I go?

[01:16:34] What, how do I get involved with this?

[01:16:36] Douglas Horn: [01:16:36] Absolutely. Yeah. So great place to go for Telos is Telos.com. Annette T E L O s.net. Okay. and that’s a site that has all kinds of information. You can go look at all the apps that are already on Telos. If you go to explore.telus.net, you can see all the documentation@docsdottelus.net. You can get a free account because free accounts are very important.

[01:16:58] But so the. So you can get a free account with your own name that you pick, at app.telus.net. And you can even check out, you can even check right there, or you could even create your own voting community. And on tell you can also go on Twitter, you can go to at hello Telos. and the same thing on telegram.

[01:17:15] We have a group at hello Telos, which is a main community, and there’s a lot of them beyond there. There’s a lot of developer communities, but it’s a great way to see what we’re doing. See all the if you go to. for a platform. No one’s ever heard of boy, do we have a lot of a lot of, dApps on, at explore.telus.net.

[01:17:33] And, in fact, we were running a big, for developers right now, we are running a big, hackathon using Tai Chi, which is one of the, which the hackathon, A system that is revolutionizing, how hackathons work it’s really exciting, but they are actually built on Telos. There, they work with Microsoft.

[01:17:51] They work with a lot of big companies and they decided to tell us is the best blockchain for them to deploy on. And we are now doing a, Doing a hackathon with them. Eh, it’s got 120,000 Telos in prize money. We actually thought maybe 40 or 50 people would work. If we were really lucky would sign up for that.

[01:18:09] And we had within the first 48 hours, we had over a hundred P Team signed up and that’s just as a, that’s just to find new P new tools that people can build or new apps that people can build using Telos decide for governance. People are so excited about it. So there’s a lot. Yeah.

[01:18:26] Warren Whitlock: [01:18:26] of exponential, or at least we’re seeing that it’s hard to say when it’s a hundred, but, the growth and the excitement about it, of what you get with open source, people can come in and contribute it in their own way. They can take. Some of the code and put it into something else.

[01:18:42] And, and it goes beyond just the code. It’s the actual blockchain.

[01:18:46] Douglas Horn: [01:18:46] absolutely. That was only a hundred, by the way. That was a hundred development teams signed the multiple people, multiple

[01:18:51] Warren Whitlock: [01:18:51] exactly.

[01:18:52] Douglas Horn: [01:18:52] in 48 hours. I think it’s much more than

[01:18:54] Warren Whitlock: [01:18:54] really see, I’m remember when somebody said WordPress just had its best day, so a hundred new sites.

[01:19:02] Douglas Horn: [01:19:02] Yeah.

[01:19:02] Warren Whitlock: [01:19:02] and you can, it’s open source. You can blah, blah, blah. and I think that’s what happens. I think that’s how these things grow and it’s something we, the.

[01:19:10] Typical views of how technology works, bypass all together. And I’ll close it off with what I say all the time and embarrassed repeating that, you think that the next 20, 30 years is going to slow down and in development or is it going to speed up? Of

[01:19:26] Douglas Horn: [01:19:26] It only speeds up even the rate of acceleration, accelerates.

[01:19:29] Warren Whitlock: [01:19:29] Exactly.

[01:19:30] And you got to anticipate that. that’s why I’m calling the 2020s. the great acceleration. I see these all coming together, all these technologies. And I, Mark my words, I think, a decade or further down the line, we will not be remembering, some of the events that happened this year.

[01:19:49] Certainly some big ones that will not be forgotten,

[01:19:52] Douglas Horn: [01:19:52] we’ll never be forgotten Warren.

[01:19:53] Warren Whitlock: [01:19:53] we’ll never be forgotten, but then again, we won’t be known as the post COVID world. We’ll be known as the world that accelerated and as is ready. I think the next time we have a challenge, like COVID, it will be taken care of a lot quicker because of some of the development that I see going on

[01:20:10] Douglas Horn: [01:20:10] Oh, yeah,

[01:20:10] Warren Whitlock: [01:20:10] that,

[01:20:11] Douglas Horn: [01:20:11] we’re already built. I was leading a program, a project called, dot org. That’s it’s Al it’s built on Telos and it’s a system that, started out to provide, an anonymity and testing for any kind of epidemic. and now we are some exciting things are happening where people may be using that as a, as, As proof of testing, that’s totally anonymous, but people can still use it to get on flights and stuff like that.

[01:20:35] we just have these people just come together because it’s unlike something like Ethereum, where you have to, put out $10,000 worth. Where the, coin to jumpstart your thing on television, it’s practically free, especially at these prices, so we can launch something for 20 bucks.

[01:20:53] I said that would cost $10,000 on EOS or Ethereum to launch. And so that’s, so all these teams come in. It’s so exciting. Yeah. I have to thank you, Warren, because you have been you from the very early on you have, from the first time you came across it. Yeah. and then, and I, we hadn’t even met yet.

[01:21:10] We met after that. You have been really like, excited about, on, you’ve been telling people about it and seeing this capacity, seeing the ability, the capacity we had and the, and how we were reaching into these different marketplaces in the developing world. And even, even first-world like college students and stuff, you’ve been seeing all this and pushing it.

[01:21:29] So I’m, I really have to thank you for

[01:21:31] Warren Whitlock: [01:21:31] I find that the easy work you guys have to actually get this stuff developed and make it work, but I appreciate the connection. and you’re welcome to come back on a future podcast. We’ll talk about some of the specifics. We glossed over in this one. And in the meantime, everybody go to telus.net, TELOS.net and find out more.


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About Douglas Horn

Douglas is the Whitepaper Author and Chief Architect of the Telos public blockchain. He is also the Founder and CEO of GoodBlock, a dApp development company, which creates cutting-edge dapps, tools and games. Prior to blockchain, Douglas worked in the entertainment and gaming industries. He has written and directed award-winning feature films and designed and produced mass-market games for Disney, Pokémon, Warner Bros., and other brands. He has also worked as a creative for a number of technology companies.

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