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Laid Off And Looking

Shut Out by the New York Fed

    • It seems your level of power is reflected in your ability (or lack there of) to get a job.

    • Name names son. Out the HR loafer for all to see and despise.

    • I wonder why the NY Fed wouldn't want to hire a SVP from Lehman Brother? Could it be that they don't want to allow the lunatics to run the asylum? Lehman Brothers was incompetently managed, took intolerable risk and directly contributed to the creation of the situation the world is in now. The NY Fed should be hiring only from the legions of organization that didn't overleverage themselve, that didn't improperly analyze risk and that moderated their short-term growth to ensure their long-term viability. As long as we keep rewarding failure, we'll keep encouraging more of it.

    • You make it sound like you would be committed to the job, but in all likelihood you would be out the door when things turn up. They know you would only consider this position because you have been out of work and the market has been down. Obviously, that has been there experience.

    • Jesus, the first 3 posters are seething with hate....

      Translation: they are poor, dumb and bitter


      I know of several ex-bankers, some FIG experts who did the exact same work required today, during the RTC / S&L crisis. They applied to the 9 regulators (God help us) that regulate our financial system; they got same response as you.

      They applied to the NY Fed, NYS Insurance Commissioner, OTS, OCC, FHLBB, FDIC, SEC, SIPC, OFS, CFTC and sent physical letters to the top 12 people listed as in charge of TARP / TALF / PPIP, and offered to work pro-bono.

      My take is, even though Geithner says the top 10 Treasuy positions are still vacant; the reality is they dont want experts snooping around, and worse case exposing whats happening.

      Further, the level of jealousy that often happens when federal workers come in contact with private sector professionals is usually huge, and in practice quite disruptive to the glacial work pace at most govt. agencies.

      Keep at it, things are turning...I heard of a couple of MD level interviews getting set up recently for some buddies, so things are clearly better than in Jan-Feb.

    • I can tell you that any organization will look at your resume and think it's a great one, but they will be reluctant to hire you because you may be too senior. Try to look for positions in smaller firms. that's my take. good luck!

    • What does one do with their time after having been out of work for so long? Do you worry about not being able to jump right back into a heavy work schedule? A year is a very long time to do nothing, but then again I often wonder if that's what bankers do...nothing.

    • My experience with government service was that I worked harder and longer than I do in private practice, was solely responsible for much bigger, more interesting projects, got an enormous level of satisfaction from my work, and was generally looked down upon by people like "Banker". The federal workers I have known have not had a "level of jealousy" with respect to private sector professionals, they just aren't shy about returning the contempt showered upon them by private sector "professionals" who think they must be better because they make more money.

      As for you, Spencer, hang in there. I would hope that you realized that a job with the NY Fed would have been a difficult ring to grab in the best of times; but, hey, it never hurts to try. I have a friend in the wine biz who said he would be contacting you. Don't know if he did it yet or not. I'll check.

    • Spencer, don't let the bitter and jealous get you down, it's sad how so many take pleasure in kicking others while theyre down. And what they don't understand is that investment bankers are paid to be intermediaries -- if anyone is to blame for this mess its the investors/consumers that created a market for overleverage, not us. So be it.

      I always enjoy your posts for their honesty and candor, and also because my story is very very similar to yours. In my case iIwas lucky to find something that's a good fit, albeit at a fraction of what I used to make. But i can't complain. If anything my experience has taught me that it's tough to knock a square peg into a round hole. Not saying don't keep trying, its just that you should be prepared to hear what you've been hearing -- you're overqualified, we're afraid you'll leave, etc etc etc. Their's always an excuse. The other thing I've learned is that HR staff are useless, and more often than not make the wrong decision based on stupid assumptions. Ultimately that's their problem. So i say hang in there and eventuially the right fit will come along, and when it does you'llbe amazed at how easy it was. That's what happens, when it's right it's right. in the meantime just be grateful that you have a wife that's working (I didn't) and you get to hang out with your kids. I'm pulling for you.

    • i feel like ive read many of your posts over the past year??? seems like you are wasting your time pursuing another job in finance... perhaps you should go in another direction???

    • “The best fit for someone with my background is the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.”

      Well, I guess the fools at the NY Fed have no clue as to who you are.

      In a time of great national need and despair, they are refusing your services. How feckless can they be?

      Too bad they don’t believe in the Pottery Barn rule, where if you break it, you buy it. In this case, I believe you are well qualified.

      But, if you are as sincere as you portray yourself, and can provide solutions which our Great Nation needs, then just volunteer. While the Marines need a Few Good MEN, it would be a mis-allocation of resources if you were put in uniformed and armed. I believe you have a higher calling, and it is at the Fed. Here we are in 100% agreement.

      I strongly recommend that tomorrow, Friday, show up for work at The NY Fed. Just show up.
      There is plenty available for you to do. Don’t worry about compensation or benefits, those are just messy details. We need you, our Country needs you. So VOLUNTEER. Let them think of it as an un-paid internship. Humor them. The key is that we not waste a nation treasure (yourself) as you sit idle for another twelve months.


      Don’t allow anyone in our government to “ . . . actively turning away people who have such a great capacity and desire to help get the country out of the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression.”

      One person can make a difference. Be that person. Be the Rosa Parks of our time. Go to The NY Fed, sit down at a desk, and tell them you are not moving. There is work to be done, and you are there to serve our nation just like any other citizen.

      But unlike any other citizen, you are uniquely qualified for this crisis, and you are willing to demonstrate your Patriotism and selfless sacrifice by doing it for $1 a year.

    • Notice that through all of this, HR is becoming an enduring problem and yet, nobody's blown the whistle on those folks--so we'll layoff quality talent and retain inept individuals in auxiliary roles (HR), which do nothing but drain the bottom line?

      While many companies are in “survival mode” the droves of talent that are out there are being overlooked by HR. And with respect to Spencer's plight, we all should be as unsympathetic as possible to the govt's finances. With this many unemployed finance folks, the government can't find its way out of a paper bag to hire them to help manage the budgets and finance. And Spencer, like many other shows much flexibility to re-apply his background to help this country--to think that hiring competent ex-Wall St.-ers would help curtail the waste in Washington. But, HR and bureaucracy rule in the U.S. For every big idea, there are 10 HR folks to squash it, when they themselves are too stupid to spot talent a mile away.

      You can network, network, network, but HR needs to be the ones who should be fired! These are the most worthless, incompetent people out there and are the gatekeepers who, knowing less than the applicant, decide if he/she is fit for the firm. It’s analogous to having a receptionist diagnose you, rather than the doctor. It’s time for a paradigm shift in hiring practices.

    • Good idea just to show up at the Fed. One thing which likely would prevent that. Like most offices and businesses now, you must have an ID Card or pass to enter the business. At any rate, I wsh him well in his search.

    • most likely their concern is that once the skies get blue you will depart for greener pastures. Their experience probably reinforces their concern. Not only is there the cut in compensation but also being subordinate to somebody a year ago you would have easily "outranked". Some are professional enough to deal with that, but others are not. It can be a messy and costly situation for the employer.

      One other thing to consider would be to adjust your resume to a specific job.

    • When applying for a job which is below your level of experience, I suggest you send in a softer resume, so that it does not scare them off. I feel bad for you, hang in there you will soon find a great job

    • The federal bank regulatory agencies OTS, FDIC,etc., who are sorely in need of help, manage the experience problem by requiring that anyone applying for a senior position be a "qualified examiner," in other words, someone who has been doing the exact job for another government agency, already. Therefore your resume is meaningless to them. You lack a union card. In this way they protect their staff from having to compete with qualified private sector employees.

    • My thinking is you already have a job!! Are you not penning these articles for one of the most reputed newspapers in the world today? Don't tell me it is for free! If I were you - I would capitalize on this job.

      It can be a new /parallel career that has made a back-door entry for you. No?

      If I were you, I would take one notch further and create a book of my experiences at Wall Street (or Lehman if you have no legal agreements not to). Or down the line, compile all the articles into a "book" with a title."How-to Ride the Roller Coaster"

      Its just a phase and I for one, you are at least lucky to have a premium level background unlike most of us who don't have the "VP" title or any investment banking experience

    • It's just human nature, nothing new. People feel threatened when someone "bigger" joins the scene; it shakes up their inner circles. But I also agree with the comment that they know you would be out the door when things turn up. They know the drill, they've seen it before. I think the person who responded to you was being honest and real, that was refreshing -- it wasn't a form letter. Also, take the backhanded compliment for what it is.

    • While I wish you luck in your endeavour (Canadian spelling), where was this "patriotism" and willingness to serve your country at the beginning of your career? If you had that conviction before working at Lehman and joined the "civil" service earlier in your career you probably could have been working at the Fed. You choose another route, the one with greed and bonuses and the Wall St. sense of entitlement (you know the one, the one where you thought you were better than everyone). Don't say you didn't have it, because everyone on Wall St. wanted to be a BSD (big, swinging, ....). Now that your plans have been derailed you suddenly develop a sense of "country first". Its BS and you know it. They know it too. The second aspect, as someone mentioned, is that those who work at the Fed are taking a small amount of pleasure of not offering you a job. You had the job they wanted but couldn't get. While some went the direct route, others had to settle for the Fed. Now they are able to play God. Civil servants never want someone better hired in their midst. It makes them look bad. So, you are damned. You are too smart and accomplished to work at the FED, and the only reason you want to work there is because you need a job. But please, don't wrap yourself in the flag and offer that as a reason. It is a disservice to those that do serve, and it is utter BS. And I always call a BS'er out when I see one. Keep looking and you will land something eventually.

    • It doesn't bother you that all of the government positions require selective service enrollment. Is this odd? Or should I overlook the possibly of being called up for duty when applying for a government job?

    • Spencer, I can certainly feel your anguish in this situation and I'm sorry. However, some food for thought from a someone who was in a similar position in 1981-82. Federal hiring for all the improvements (streamlining) over the past few years is still a long process. In my case, with similar credentials as you, it took almost three years to get on-board. The process is more expeditious now, but definitely not overnight. Federal HR personnel are dedicated and competent, they mainly vet the applications. In my case, HR will provide usually the top ranked 7 - 10 applicants, of which as a selecting official, I will usually interview three or four. Occasionally none of the applicants is satisfactory, so we reaccomplish the posting (it starts over again). It's no reflection on you, at that level the competition is very intense. If that's really what you want to dedicate the rest of your career to; hang in there Spence, be patient, keep your skills fresh with training, and keep applying. Good luck.

    • CC, I don't know where your esteem for federal HR comes from. Between the rude and aggressive HR folks in private sector HR, those HR in the govt are are lazy and unmotivated, I don't know which group is worse. I applied to a government position over ONE YEAR ago and still haven't received an outcome even after interviewing twice. When I alerted HR to this, they told me only ONE form was needed to track the process--a phone call to the hiring manager at the most. Yet, they won't even pick up the phone. Too many steps. That requires effort (Waaay outside the job description/responsibilities required by a government employees).

      Bottom line, is the inefficiency of the government is of its own making. It's not because of a lack of applicants that are qualified. It's because of this "template-driven" hiring and KSA criteria, which refuse to consider anyone with any transferable skills whatsoever. I have no sympathy if this country goes bankrupt. The inmates (HR) running the asylum will bring it down, not the lack of qualified applicants. This mentality has got to change.

    • As a 14 year executive search consultant of a specific industry (not government or financial), this is normal procedure at times. It appears to me that your evaluation of what you want and those in charge of filling the open positions are not in sync. .

    • Ever try the F.B.I. (maybe if they were doing their job there'd be the comple public audit Congressman RON PAUL is calling for in the Federal Reserve)--I did in their White Collar Crimes Unit opening after running a completely large Army Finance Corps payroll center in a foreign government's city in Karlsruhe, HR couldn't get their act together there at the F.B.I. either and the KSA's were always brought up until the gov't. union card seemed the only way you'd ever get re-recognized!!!

    • Two observations: Government jobs suck. This was, is and will always hold true. Consider yourself fortunate that they haven't hired you. Please stay on course with the private sector as this is where all the normal people work. They actually know something, have a work ethic and want to succeed. Lastly, your experience with HR confirms once again that not only are HR personnel imperious, lazy, rude, and ineffective, they're just mean.

    • You left out another reason why you were not considered for the position and deemed too senior. They figure once you get your foot in the door you will look to move up. No one wants to hire their replacement, especially in government.

    • Maybe it was nancy. Hopefully, she'll be added to the unemployment list soon.

    • Your problem is that you or a relative didn't work for Goldman. That's what they're looking for.

    • Last I heard, the IRS was looking for folks as part of an enforcment build up. WIth the plans to go after offshore money and all that, your banking experience should make you a great forensic accountant.

      A perk would be you could track down and audit some of the mean spirited folks posting messages on here. Then you could do a mastercard commercial and call it "priceless".

      Hang in there and best of luck.

    • I can tell you my friend, age discrimmination is alive and well out there. I recently had an interview with a company where the job was a perfect fit for me with 10 years experience and I aced the interview. I knew all of the right questions to ask because this was in my field. They said they hired someone with more experience. And she is 30, and I am 50??

    • did the staffer who said your were too powerful know you were on this blog, and would likely post an answer?
      to think that your hard-earned tax dollars pay these people is really a hoot. so - you are too powerful for the federal govnt. in the misdt of the worst finance crisis in two lifetimes?
      sorry you had to be treated this way.
      I say post the whole letter, with name. let's see who we pay who acts like this.

    • I'd encourage you to go work at Starbucks before working for the U.S. government. The paradigm in this country is that the government is for all of those who couldn't cut it in the private sector. You will be surrounded by second and third tier (maybe fourth) employees, and the combination of government levels of motivation, refinement and ambition with your ex-Wall St. experience is a recipe for disaster. Send your letter to President Obama and show him what his "job creation" and bloated government payroll produce. Notice that the government never fires anyone, so it's like an obese person--all fat and no muscle. I hope you land something in the private sector soon. You might just go insane working for the Feds.


    • I don't know if the advice in the following link would be suitable for Spencer. But it may be suitable for some of you who were told at one time or another that your experience was too much and/or too high-level for the opening you interviewed for:
      Our Take: Avoiding the 'Overqualified' Trap (May 8 2009)
      "The longer this recession goes on, the more transitioning professionals will stumble into the "overqualified" pit. Too much of a good thing is wonderful, said Mae West. But that's not how hiring managers see it...."

    • The bit about wanting to help the country get out of this financial mess was a mite over the top and detracts from credibiility. It also seems too sales oriented and ironic given your last employer. There are plenty of ways to help the country--enlisting would be one or volunteering at one of the many nonprofits.

      You might also want to take a look at your resume and make sure it includes a lot of key words. I haven't read your prior posts so don't know whether you have addressed this. Age discrimination is widespread.

    • I assume that you've applied for the top level jobs offered by the agency (the Fed). And, of course for the pay, even though considerably less than your last job.

      To be honest though, you don't have the experience they are looking for. And not just the financial knowledge but the means, the way and the methodology of the job and gov't operations itself. Regardless of what others may post about working for the gov't, it is a different world. Lots of incompetent dead-enders but also some very knowledgeable people. Coming in at that level without many years of crucial operational experience (sorry, Lehman doesn't count), you'd be like a bull in a china shop so to speak.

      But just how serious are you about a gov't job? Would you be willing to start at say a GS12? I know people with more experience than you and also older who were able to attain employment at that level without prior gov't experience. The pay? Well, it'd probably be about half that of the position that you applied for (btw, I'd drop the gross income, only give base pay if you did decide to go this route).

      Anyway, just a thought.

    • Spencer,

      Think about joining the armed forces. Your still be low the maximum age limit.

      Team America Needs You! $(*^&^% Yeah!

    • As I read through some of the posts here, I sensed a tremendous viciousness toward the blogger. If you cannot be constructive and discuss issues with intelligence, why bother posting comments? We are talking about how to land a job here, not trying to decide social justice. The first three comments are just not necessary for someone whom you don't even know in person! If you have a family to support and you have the career pressure as most of the laid-off people do, you will understand why people would consider different career options.

      By the way, just because someone worked for Lehman Brothers, it doesn't mean that this person is incompetent. Please reserve your sarcastic remarks for yourself and your family if you have nothing else to do.

    • About HR... to quote a note I once saw left for a recruiter, "Do you work?" Apparently, most HR people don't have to earn a living... they're ignorant, make poor decisions and dishonest in a manner that would get me fired in about a week. Back when someone in an industry was stuck in "Personnel," at least he could say "We need this person, hire him/her" when a resume came across his desk. Now, "Human Resources" is an expert industry in and of itself (who, yes, may have no idea of what their host company actually does) and focused upon ensuring eployement (as in a paycheck) for itself. The HR concept has been a failure and-- especially in today's economic climate when we can't afford such waste-- should be rolled-back to the former incarnation of its function.

    • I can empathize with your experience. Seems I'll be removing the MBA from my resume very quickly.

    • In response to Iron Mike's comment. Contrary to what you say in your biased dissertation. Bear Stearns who happened to be bailed out by JPM was a major contributor to this whole mess. Additionally, in case you fail to remember or if you choose to ignore the facts the President of Bear was on the news stating, and I quote "We are adequately capitalized", it just so happened they blew up that same week. Oh and by the way wouldn't you call it a conflict of interest that James Dimon is Pres of JPM and also holds a commanding position on the Corporate Governance Committee of the New York Fed. That just goes to show you whom is really running the show.


    • We moved to the Middle East -- that's several thousands of miles away from New York. I am not saying you should move that far but if you are really serious about landing something reasonable, you've got to move out of your "comfort zone" and cast a wider geographic net than just looking in NYC/Philly area. I hear Canadian banks largely escaped the crisis and while things have soured in the Middle East too, it seems to me there still are opportunities. Have you mined all your contacts (direct & indirect) on Linkedin or your MBA alumni database to find contacts in the global financial services world?

    • Spencer, I sharply disagree with your statement "...this response clearly validated the point that I made in my previous posting that employers are reluctant to hire experienced candidates".

      The reason that they gave for not hiring you was that you were previously too high-ranking in the management chain, not that you had too much experience. These aren't

      Did you know that a person can be an experienced candidate and actually NOT be in upper management?

    • *

      Spencer, I sharply disagree with your statement “…this response clearly validated the point that I made in my previous posting that employers are reluctant to hire experienced candidates”.

      The reason that they gave for not hiring you was that you were previously too high-ranking in the management chain, not that you had too much experience. These aren’t the same thing.


    • As a long-time employee of a Federal agency, I commiserate with Mr. Cutter. He deserved more courtesy and attention than he received. That aside, his experience was quite predictable. The Federal Government typically seeks applicants who meet the qualifications for a position, not someone with impeccable credentials. The main reason is the lengthy and laborious hiring process. From the time a vacancy is identified until a qualified candidate is hired typically takes three months, an eternity compared with private industry. Much of is driven by the need to comply with outmoded Office of Personnel Management requirements to afford equal opportunity to all candidates, regardless of their qualifications. Given that reality, it is understandable the Fed deferred on Mr. Cutter's extensive resume, the concern being he'd leave at his earliest opportunity and the long, slow process of hiring his replacement would begin anew.

    • Hey Spencer, Where are you? I miss reading your entries.

    • To Spencer:

      It looks like you applied for a position you are overqualified for. The hiring manager stated that clearly and with all honesty:

      "...While I am sure that you would be willing to work at a substantially lower level than you were previously employed at, our experience using senior persons to fill junior positions has not been good and we do not do it."

      The hiring manager was right. People who got hired for a position they are overqualified for end up to be bad performers because they resented doing something they thought is demeaning. Imagine yourself, after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars going to undergrad school and then getting a graduate degree from UCLA, how would you feel working at McDonalds and flipping burgers? I know there are exceptions but in general overqualified people would find it demeaning.

      If you are one of the exceptions, what I would do is to not reveal the SVP position or remove your MBA credentials. In other words, tailor your resume to match the position you are applying for. I know it sucks but overqualified is just as bad as being underqualified.

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