


Glock27's picture

"And to me tortur is Unconstitutional" Question. Where in the constitution says that it is Unconstitutional to torture a war time soilder to get information to save innocent lives? I believe in torture and it should be used. Once a confession has been obtained a follow-up psychocological interview should be used to confirm the truth is being told. My body tortues me everyday of my life and every hour. I hate it and would not want another person to go through what I have to endure, but I am no threat to no one. There is no break for me and the doctors do not seem to have an answer.
The law is the law. He broke it. Just as you or I whatever law we break we are going to face the consiquenses. I think he is a whinner because he knew what he was doing was wrong. Wrong is wrong irregardless. Certainly torture does not always give the truth, but so have man men went to jail as innocent men because prosecutors are political positions so the more they convict the better their chances are for re-election and then on to bigger and better lies they can perform, more power over lives.
Torture is a tool like a screwdriver or a wrench. Some of the things done with torture I disagree with, like taking photos and etc. I can not agree that torture gets everything we want and need. I am not fully sure it really works it actually works. There is proof it has worked and proof it has not worked so wich is it do we torture or not. I think Kirakou got what he deserved. It was the law. He broke it and now he has to serve it. I think he got away luckilly. Got his own form of torture. Maybe the next time he will think his way through the situation. That's what I think.

Persona non grata's picture


Glock27's picture

Persona non grata,

If you are refering to my post would you please define fool for me. There are many kinds of fools in this world so I need to know what kind of fool I am, a fool for believing, a fool and his money is soon parted.
Your one word response seems to be at the greatest restraint against saying more or it left you unable to find more to say?

Persona non grata's picture

Anyone who espouses the use of torture as a means to any end is a fool.

Persona non grata's picture

When a "law" is immoral it is the duty of every human being to disobey.

Glock27's picture

What makes torture immoral and whay do you have to be a fool to use it? I cannot understand why you will not be more specific with me. If you feel the need to use vulgaraty go to the pm and let er fly.

Persona non grata's picture

What I find vulgar is the fact you beleive torture is an acceptable means to an end. 

Ignorance is bliss old Glocky boy. 

Glock27's picture

You are simply pissed and can't see beyond the yellow haze formed over them. That has to be why you missed all of my post even if you read all of it. As I said earlier. Your are tyrannical in trying to force me to believe in your beliefs. It just simply dosen't work that way. if you are that seriously troubled over my remark pm me and let us have a calm and decent discussion regarding it. Your two sentences suggest that you have not grasped the concept of non-aggressive principles. I am certain you are more capable of two sentences. I admire you for holding in all that anger you have. It takes a strong fortitutde to do that.
Question. Did the fellow deserve what he got 30 months in jail?

Samarami's picture


    "...Torture is a tool like a screwdriver or a wrench..."

If you look at it this way, and understand that those groups of predators and parasites who are grouped into monopolistic gangs called "government" ("Our-Great-Nation", "My-Country" [right or wrong??]) have one tool and one tool only -- well, two: torture and terror -- if you can see it in this light you're on your way to liberty.

If not, you may spend your days in a form of slavery -- whining and wringing your hands over the "bad things goin' on..."

No monopoly government -- anywhere, ever -- has produced a good or beneficial result that could not have been experienced better and at a lower cost in a free marketplace.


Glock27's picture

I hope you got my p.m. I am very sorry that you got dragged into my little chumming operation. i am already spending my days in slavery whining daily and hourly for my body. I have great envy for you and all you have gone through and you get up and keep right on ticking.
I guess when I see and hear about the things that happen to our girls and boys overseas I really dont give a shit if the drowned everyone of the bastards. It's just the way I feel. I hurt so bad when I watch pictures of them getting their heads lopped of or rather hacked of because they are too stupid to sharpen their swords.
P.S. I will be chumming around for a shark again sometime soon. If I do I will let you know.

With deep respect

tomcat's picture


if the drowned everyone of the bastards"

Similar Things happened in the 1940's to the German Soldiers in France, Italy, eastern Europe etc..
The Resitance in those occupied countries didnt see any reason to face the german Wehrmacht
in an open fieldbattle.Those cowards !
In most cases the average german soldier wasnt a fanatical nazi, he simply believed as a good soldier
and Patriot he had to fulfill his duty, fight for his own country and obey orders no matter
what.Glorified Stupidity !
Often it wasnt even about Patriotism and beeing a good soldier, the single Individual just wanted
to stay alive while beeing at the wrong place at the wrong time.From this point of view as
a single Person -> innocent People.

Take Ron Pauls Speech and substitue the Chinese/ Russians with your preferred enemy:
Imagine if all these muslim bastards would start a sucessful military Occupation of your country.

In the late 1970ies it came to public knowledge that a well known Politician had worked as
a military judge during the 3.Reich and, by this also had issued death sentences for "traitors".
This Man defended himself with the following statement:"What once had right(by the law) cannot
not be wrong(by the law) today."

If neither your very own conscience nor your religious Belief helps you to see whats wrong with your
Ideas about torture, "the law" certainly wont do it.

KenK's picture

The joke is on Mr. Kiriakou. Can't say that I feel that sorry for him. Like a guy who gets bit by his own pet snake or mauled by his own pit bull. Kiriakou is not some prisoner of conscience like Pfc. Manning.

Glock27's picture

I can agree with that. The guy was a fool. And the word fool is getting to be pretty well clarified here.

KenK's picture

The only thing you did wrong Glock was speak your mind honestly.
A lot these guys take deeply principled stands about things, at least on STR, although some now say they won't deign to debate or defend them. I must take them at their word that they'd never "initiate force" [sic] to survive and prevail even if they found themselves in very bad circumstance but I just cannot erase all doubt about it though. Would they really be willing to watch their family members suffer if food got to be really scarce or expensive? Would they be willing to allow a life threatening infection or wound they have go untreated rather than do a burglary or hold up? I dunno. I take them at their word when they say no. How about if someone was ratting out people causing them to be rousted and raided all the time? Would they really hold back on any retaliation against informers? Again, I dunno. That's what they say. I'd like to think I'd never go that low myself. But I can't swear I wouldn't, in all true honesty.
In the same way i think putting up "gun free zone" stickers on my home or business is inviting trouble from those with no principals or restraints, I believe it is foolish in the same way to openly renounce any tactics and means beforehand. To do so just strikes me as bad foolishness even if I'd move heaven and earth to avoid using them.
And then there's the matter of definitions too. One man's "torture" is another man's "informational ass whipping" of a snitch, saboteur, poacher. So there's that. Thanks for bringing it up though Glock. I think the time's rapidly approaching where some of us frogs are going to have hop or get boiled pretty soon myself. So stock up on meds and switch to decaf, eh brother?

Persona non grata's picture

Ignorant fools.

Whenever anyone espouses the use of force/torture to achieve an ends it is the moral imperative of every human being to renounce it immediately for what it truly is and that is an abdication of (y)our humanity. 

Only a fool would call the torture of another human being an "informational ass whipping". 

Ignorance of history and human nature is bliss KenK.  

KenK what you and Glock advocate  is called the "law of the West"/"law of the jungle" where the "powers that be" make up the rules as they go along to suit their needs of the moment where might makes right and humanity is just something to wipe your ass with prepare to reap the bitter harvest you and all the other depraved sub-humans are sowing.

The use of state sponsored torture/terrorism destroys the last thousand years of human progress (rule of law) that while not perfect did in fact serve to protect the weak from the predations of the powerful.

Torture is the way of the tyrant, espousing the use of torture is the way of the fool.

Glock27's picture

Did you honestly think it was going to change over the past hundreds of years. Human beings are evil people by culture (mostly) or by (upbringing). Morality is irrelevant except to those whom wish we were a moral mix, but we are not. We are a potporrie of human beings with different feelings. You have now asserted the aggression principle again in your attack rather than to use logic and reason as Jim Davies would warmly expresss. You are in no position to call Ken or me ignorant. You have nothing to validate that nonsense with, it takes more than a statement to quantify a person as ignorant.
I would suggest you calm down and give your poor tormented self a break from this and then approach this in a more reasonable manner and utilize some documentation against my rant. Rant for rant makes nothing more than a simple rant that gets exactly nowhere. You are spinning your wheels in mud. Rule of law (What the F**k is rule of law. Does that come from the Constitution?) or is it from your legislatures who dream up ways to F**k you over. Last I understood from our magnificant legislators rule of law come from the end of the barrel of a gun.
Just recently. This week. Six Afgan women were murdered by the taliban for getting a flu shot. Why can't you be pissed of at that. No. You have two Jackels here that wil go tit for tat. When you prove to me that torture does not work then I will listen, and for g-ds sake go back and read my post. I swear. You missed the entire thing. You focused on torture and a few lines and got your undies all bunched up. I have to believe you are a lot smarter than you are putting on, or at least I hope you are.
Ken you wanna step in here for a moment.

Glock27's picture

I appreciate your response, metaphorically "where there are one or two gathered togeather". I was in the service during VietNam. I was terrified. If captured I would have turned in a heart beat. There are many kinds of people in the world and thank G-d for that. If I caught a snitch it would be over, if I were caught it would be over then someone would do me in. Life is a circle and many members here live their philosophies, I live my life. My life is my philosophy I guess, Me. If you are hurting and need help I will be there--food, clothes, etc.
Someone here placed an article here relating to love. I think it was a two or three part series. I thought the love thing was hokey, but now I have to retract my position. I guess I would rather have used respecte, decency, kindness or some other word but that was for me to do not the author.
Our biggest underlying problem is laziness as Americans. I am not a big fan of torture because it can lead to torturing a fellow who honestly knows noting and what was it all for. It is the same as convicting an innocent man of murder or rape when He didn't do it then 20 years later they discover he didn't do (I don't get these prosecutors who still want to keep them locked up). I honestly believe there must be ways in determining who is lying and who is not. Arbitrary and indiscriminate torture is stupid.

Again, Thanks for your support and understanding. I appreciate that