Turkey and its army

Erdogan and his generals

The once all-powerful Turkish armed forces are cowed, if not quite impotent

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we want peace

Why should putting hundreds of innocent people with forged documents in jail be a triumph of democracy?

I hope that the world will focus more closely on the huge justice problems taking place in Turkey, a country, with the most imprisoned journalists even surpassing China and Iran.

In the Sledgehammer case, in violation of both Turkish and international law, the court rejected all defense requests for independent authentication of the evidence, ignoring the numerous anachronisms and other indications of forgery. The prosecution asserted that a coup was planned in 2003 and jailed hundreds of innocent people, citing unsigned documents. However, even though the last-saved dates on these documents appear as 2002-2003, they were found to contain references to fonts and other attributes that were first introduced with Microsoft Office 2007. There is also a confirmation of the forgery from an American digital forensics team.

All this evidence proves that : The alleged coup plot is fabricated and everyone in the country knows by now that this trial was a sham trial.

How is this a triumph of democracy? While the military learned from her past mistakes, Turkish politics did not. How can this comment in the article: "even in the absence of tampered evidence, there is sufficient proof of coup plotting to send scores of generals to jail,”" can be justified in a democratic country to put people in jail for years? What is this sufficient proof that no one else knows about? What is the hard evidence other than your personal judgements, which should not have any value in a criminal case to send people to jail.


I am going to post this comment again because reading some of the other comments I realized a few of my Turkish comrades give US and West too much “credit” for all the mess in Turkey and Middle East.

Of course every country will and should first have its own interests in mind. Following 9/11 in a desperate attempt to eliminate radical Islam, US may be looking at a “moderate Islam” model and obviously using Turkey to create such a country makes sense.

Bush’s initial ill-informed reference to Turkey as “moderate Islamic,” followed by Obama’s even more badly informed reference as “Islamic Democracy” says it all. This direction simply sacrifices the secular Republic of Turkey.

There was even a 2004 article entitled “Turkey’s Strategic Model: Myths and Realities” by Graham Fuller who was the former vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council at CIA and also happens to be one of the supporters of Gulen in his US residency application. Basically, Fuller suggests that the Western version of Turkey (so-called secularism or the French version of secularism; Fuller’s own words) is a myth and that Turkey can be more useful to the West as an Eastern power with political integration of Islam. In a hypocritical and twisted manner US supports Saudi Arabia, why wouldn’t they support Islamic Turkey if it means more peaceful ME region.

If someone is taking advantage of another and the other one is letting him do it who is the idiot in this case? Turks need to stop complaining, stop blaming others and take responsibility themselves for their future and act upon it in.

The question you should be asking is what do AKP and Erdogan have to gain from such collaboration. To me the answer is simple: Islamization of Turkey. Just check Erdogan’s background and what he’s been saying for decades and remember that years ago a survey clearly revealed that the majority of those who voted for AKP considered themselves Islam first and Turk second, opposite of the majority who voted for CHP. So they are all working for the Ummah.

Unfortunately the incompetency and mismanagement by the secularist parties facilitated the election of Islamci party, AKP led by Erdogan. Time for the secularist to get their act together for a better led, organized and a united party.

Further, many secularists minded Turks are just standing by and watching the fabric of the nation become Islamist because as long as they are making money under this AKP administration who gives a …..! Right?


Referring to many generals being behind the bars as “This ought to be a triumph for Turkish democracy” is comedic nonsense or valid only if the author is referring to “Islamist Democracy” not Turkish and definitely not western democracy.

In this AKP+Fethullah’s judicial and police system one is “guilty until proven innocent” which is obviously the opposite of western judicial system. And one can just be charged, no indictment, and spend years in prison. And a “secret witness” can provide all the documents for events and plans that supposedly occurred many years ago.

Reported “evidence” contained many bits and pieces that did not exist at the time of supposed coup planning, including camera system, cell phone system, a ship name, organizations, street names that did not exist, etc etc all nicely dropped off by an anonymous person etc or the CD “evidence” using Microsoft word program that did not exist until 2007 etc etc. indicating all prepared later. And in a sloppy manner too.

No surprise that in today’s Turkey, if you oppose the government you get slammed with forged evidence that not only Turkish but US and European forensic experts agree it’s forged. If the prosecutor hesitates, Islamci judiciary simply replaces him.

But who cares right? They already decided who is going to be eliminated by accusing as “guilty” in this Islamist Democracy so who cares about evidence.

Islamci in reply to Islamci

Now to PM Erdogan’s complaint during a recent interview “These operations against the army are affecting morale. There are 400 serving and retired officers in jail. At this rate we will have no officers left to appoint to command positions” Nice.

If I didn’t already believe that he is a very shrewd and street smart guy I’d say that’s an amazingly naïve statement. I’ll even give him credit for being ambitious and a hard working guy.

But now one has to ask the question where was he in the last 5-6 years when “Ergenekon” was probably the most commonly used witch hunt and blame game by his party and the Islamists in Turkey.

Still, why be surprised about the sad condition and low morale of Turkish Military now? Years ago Islamist paper (Fethullah’s), Zaman, a journalist and AKP MP’s husband wrote an article calling the military “flattened paper tiger” and reportedly stated that one can’t defend the country with such a desperate army. Again, let’s not forget that AKP’s Deputy PM Bulent Arinc commented years ago that it’s a “good thing we did not go to war with this military”

So the key question is what’s the real purpose of PM’s recent statements and complaints.

Islamci in reply to Islamci

Take a look at what’s going on in Mali today. Islamist fanatics took over the country for nearly a year and brutally terrorized people, including public lashings, stoning, amputations, and beating pregnant women, 9year olds, grandmothers for not being totally covered.
Playing soccer, music, smoking, drinking all were banned. An unmarried couple who had two children out of wedlock was stoned to death.

These fanatics even desecrated their own heritage claiming Mosques build 7 centuries ago were not Islamic enough and wrecked them. At Timbuktu library the Islamist fanatics burned 3000 ancient Arabic documents, again with same backward mentality.

After the French forces saved the people the other day, local people did not want French forces to leave and wanted them to stay because the local forces are unable to protect their own citizens.

Much worse happened in Afghanistan and many other examples exist throughout the Islamist world.

Bottom line: why don’t the Islamic countries go help the locals, unless they admire the brutal implementation of Sharia. Or is it like in Darfur after 300,000 killings Erdogan said he did not see any genocide during his visit and because “Muslim don’t commit genocide”. So take responsibility and stop complaining when the west steps in to help relieve such brutality.

Islamci in reply to Islamci

But hold everything!!

Recent breaking news indicates today’s Islamist government of Turkey has in fact become a perfect “model” for the new Islamist democracies involved in “Arab Winter”

About 5 months after the election of new Islamist president Morsi, Egypt’s top public prosecutor last month started an investigation into the opposition party leaders for coup plans to overthrow Morsi’s regime.

The three opposition leaders included former foreign minister, former presidential candidate and most interestingly Mohammed El Baradei, the highly educated (MS from Geneva and JD from New York both in International Law) once head of U.N. nuclear agency, and most notably the Nobel Peace Prize winner.

Who says Islamci AKP can’t set an excellent example in the Middle East !!


A word for the Economist writer who wrote this article; go back to school and take journalism 101.

According to Wikipedia the suicide rate for males in the USA is aroudn 20 per 100000. For the around 650000 man Turkish military this would be 130 per year, ignoring the fact that young soldiers are an age group with higher than average sucide rate. The real figure the Economist gives for the Turkish military is 93, lower tahn the Anmerican average meaning that Turkish soldiers have a lower sucide rate than adult Americans.
I think the Economist should publicly apologize for calling Turkish officers murderers.

Fahrettin Tahir

Why should putting hundreds of innocent people in jail with forged evidence be a triumpf for democracy?
I remember 1980. There was a civil war going. Every day 40 or 50 people were being murdered for political reasons. Turkey was bankrupt. Parliament had not been able to elect a president in 9 months. The politicians hated each other and met only at yet one more funeral.
The army saved Turkey. For which a thankful nation voted with 92 % for the constitution the military proposed.
This constitution gave the generals immunity for the coup. 30 years later when a new generation has fogotten what had happened comes the akp prosecuting the heroes who have assured that Turkey exists and could once more become a power.
Ignoring a constitutional amneyty, which in Turkish lagl tradition is never reversed and the statute of limitations which in Turkey is 20 years for heavy crimes
And now comes Mr erdogan, complaining that he himself has used up all his generals.

Smartt in reply to Ahmet017

It's the other way around Ahmet017. The government is plotting against the generals, journalists, professors, doctors, students. Contrary to what you might think, some people are aware of what's going on in Turkey. The Islamists are taking over the country and it is almost accomplished.


The islamic fethullah gulen gang has taken over courts and police force in turkey and they are getting revenge on people who did not let them bring islamic order to the country in the past. Interestingly, their hatred is just so much that now they are only living to get revenge. They do not talk about islam or sheria law or things like that any more. Their hatred has taken over everything else. They have only space left for hatred in their heart. They do not really believe in god or islam any more. Their hatred is more powerful than the believes they had in the past. These people will lie, cheat, slender and do anything possible to get revenge.

There are thousands of people in the prison. Hundereds of journalists, thousands of army officers. They are in prison not because they are guilty. Not because they have done anything. They are in prison because they are either secular or because the fethullah gulen gang believes they might be secular.

The AKP is also helping the gang because they also like seeing the seculars to be destroyed. For example, most alevi's (a lighter kind of islam) are secular and AKP has big hatred against alevi people. When they came to government their first priority was to find out and fire all alevi people from government positions.

Even though, Erdogan might seem like he is worried that there is no generals left outside, he is actually very happy about the situation and he helps the gang all the way.

The question is now when the turkish seculars will get over being scared, get organized and start an offensive. Turkey is re-living 1919. Will the people take charge? Time will show.

Fahrettin Tahir

Turkish conscripts are never killed by their superiors. The British military have intensive relationship with their Turkish colleagues and know that. What the Economist is doing is mud slinging. This is a bad time for Turkish patriots, but times change and the British will need the Turkish military they are now helping to destroy.

Here a fact:

The Turkish military suicide figure averages 93 per year. In 2012 the US military averaged one suicide per day. Considering the fact that the US military have more people than the Turks the two figures are comparable.


Another Muslim country goes the same way as Egypt. It's either a military dictatorship or the Islamists. These are your alternatives. You can't have democracy in countries where there is no tolerance.

Fahrettin Tahir

The real news in Turkey this week was Mr erdogan publicly think out loud about giving up any aspirations to join the European Union and joining the Shanghai organisation istead, with China and Russia.

Turkish secularists had already been thinking of doing exactly that as a response to Western policies of using the PKK to make war on Turkey, stealing Turkey's treaty rights on cyprus and the Armenian revenge project.

This was the reason why the West had been supporting the establishment of the AKP dictatorship. They had imagined that Mr Erdogan was going ot give them the goodies. Instead he joins the growing consensus that Turkey supported the wrong side during the cold war.

Yet one more fisaco in the Western project of making the Islamic World fit for colonialism.

fromAnkara in reply to forjustice

If that was true there would be lots of evidence in the hands of the fethullah gulen islamic gang. All of the evidence they have is data CDs that has plans for a coup. The plans show that the generals have special powers to see the future. The plans include names of organizations that was established 5 years later, street names that would be changed years later and they were wriiten by versions of microsoft word that was not yet released and burned by cd writing software that would not be released for many years to come.

You do not fix unfairness with more unfairness. Most secret murders in Turkey are actually made by islamic terrorists. Turkish army do not have a tradition of executing or assasinating the other side. That's a historical tradition. That's part of a tradition of hundereds or even thousands of years. It is a shame to see such a honorable organization get destroyed by bunch of sneaky religious weasels who has taken over the turkish police and courts.

The sneaky traditions, things like lying, cheating and doing anything to get your way is not part of turkish tradition. Turkish culture is more similar to hard working and tough middle asians like mongolians. Those " hit behind ones back " culture is more common among arabs. Only islamic fundementalists in turkey feel close to arabs and they are the only ones who follow this culture and tradition of no princible.


"How is this a triumph of democracy?"
The Economist is a pro-Islamist magazine, not unlike some pre-WW2 British elites sympathetic towards Nazism.

fromAnkara in reply to marting456

Turkey was not a military dictatorship before being taken over by the islamic fundementalists. The last military intervention was 33 years ago and the military did not stay in power for long. They fixed the chaos and get the hell out of the government quickly.

Turkey had less number of journalists in prison those days. There were more freedoms even during the military power. You could make jokes about politicians. Today you can't joke about government. They closed TV stations, put hundereds of journalists in prison. Mustafa Balbay is detained in a cell for the last 5 years. His guilt: being a journalist. They banned books before release and prisioned its author. No military regime had even come close to today's islamic government.

david david

Absolute Bollocks.
All Military's especially ones structured around NATO operate under a command hierarchy. When you remove an officer from office the next one in the hierarchy is promoted to fill his/her place.
When you have an armed force with in excess of 1 million armed men including reserves there are many options.
The only problem is that there are no Western orientated Generals left in the Turkish command structure. Mr. Erdogan has weed them out in order to promote his conservative views.

flyingdutch100 in reply to marting456

I do not know a lot about Turkish history and contemporary politics, but your post sounds like another "i know it better" westener. (I am one too...).
I do know enough though not to compare Turkey to Egypt and not to talk about "another muslim country".
After the past 10 years in both US and Western European politics, I wouldn't dare to say that "ours" is a model to follow or that it is our job to point fingers.


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