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#157 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
Nobody forced them to take debts, did they?
User avatar #162 to #157 - xmonke (04/26/2014) [-]
No debt, no college
No college, no job
No job, no life
User avatar #174 to #162 - letriggs (04/26/2014) [-]
you don't need to go to college to get a job

my dad didn't go and made a career out of ventilation work

he now owns his own company
User avatar #198 to #174 - grandmabetty (04/26/2014) [-]
Clearly you do not realise how hard it is to start up your own small business.

If everyone started up their own business, the market would be so saturated nobody would make any money.

And how long did he make that business, 20 years ago? 30 years ago? Things were a lot different back then, (at least in my country) they left school at 14 and walked up to the factory and said "job please" and they'd have one in seconds, got vital experience and is the reason why they don't really need qualifications these days because they've racked up experience.

If you fail at starting up your own business and it doesn't work out, then you're ****** in today's world. You've not got a proper qualification in comparison to those who do, and you'll find it much harder to get the job you want.

Sure you can still get a job if you don't go to college, but 9 times out of 10 it won't be glamorous or paid as high as you want it.
User avatar #199 to #198 - letriggs (04/26/2014) [-]
actually he made the business 2 years ago
User avatar #215 to #199 - shaddz (04/26/2014) [-]
hard work and a lot of luck, not saying it cannot be done but this conversation is about the reality for the majority of the population, not the few who luck out
User avatar #214 to #199 - jasohazard (04/26/2014) [-]
Impressive, but it's still hard to do. Your dad is either the hardest working guy ever or really lucky in being successful, or some combination of the two
User avatar #218 to #214 - letriggs (04/26/2014) [-]
hard working, slightly lucky and he knows the business really well

he works 6 days a week but the payout he gets is worth it

and he oversaw Twickenham rugby stadium when it was getting built so he was well known in the trade which was a boost for him

if I didn't find it insanely boring I would probably looking into becoming a plan designer in that area. When I was 12 I helped design part of the vent system for the stadium
#171 to #162 - letriggs has deleted their comment [-]
#163 to #162 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
yeah, that's ********
User avatar #164 to #163 - xmonke (04/26/2014) [-]
Unless you're a talented celebrity, a genius, or have a rich family, it's not ******** .
#165 to #164 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
still ******** .
Firstly, You can work for a couple of years, get some money and then go to college

Secondly, there are many types of jobs where you can make decent amount of money without college, unless you are a faggot who does not want to get hands dirty

User avatar #166 to #165 - xmonke (04/26/2014) [-]
Firstly, work for a couple of years and get some tens of thousands of dollars? haha
Secondly, most of those jobs you are talking about are ****** jobs.
User avatar #180 to #166 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
Agreed, jobs that are actually rewarding and give you some dignity require a college education. Anyone who disagrees is probably the kind of person who thinks school is pointless.
#278 to #180 - apurpleliger (04/27/2014) [-]
Thinking you're "too good" to do a job does not equate to that job paying poorly. If you can't find work elsewhere, you can still make a living doing the jobs nobody else wants to do. It's not a great living, but it's a good enough wage that if you are smart about your debt/expenses you can still enjoy life.
#167 to #166 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
Well, pardon me princess
User avatar #168 to #167 - shaddz (04/26/2014) [-]
No hes right. I am now finishing college and about to go to University so that I can get a half decent job. Until now I have been qualified for very little and given the state of the economy that limited what little there was. So I have been working in a supermarket and barely scraping by. xmonke is absolutely correct in this. But hey, maybe your lucky and have rich parents or you are just too ignorant to care but one day you will grow up and figure this out.
#172 to #168 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
Pick up some trade skill.
User avatar #175 to #172 - shaddz (04/26/2014) [-]
and where do you get trade skills from... hmmmm... OH YEA... college
User avatar #190 to #175 - ryapr (04/26/2014) [-]
get get proper trade skills from apprenticing from masters* of said trade, I'm in a 6 month butchering apprenticeship currently, which i'm getting $12/h to work and within a year of getting 45k (minimum) annually. and on the side I recently started a blacksmithing apprenticeship for the enjoyment of the art. Imo College truly isn't for everyone, I was a straight A/B student taking AP classes all through high school, and college was not the place for me. It wasn't going to bring me to a career i wanted or enjoyed. and with the current state of education pushing work smarter not harder, decent Vocational jobs are really hurting for employees and pay really well.
User avatar #193 to #190 - shaddz (04/26/2014) [-]
those are actually very few and far between which is why I did not mention that alone.

How many masters have the time to spend on others. in most parts of the world outside of the US, this goes in tandem with a college course unless they are family, friends or you are very lucky.
User avatar #196 to #193 - ryapr (04/26/2014) [-]
i'm in the US, and it's not really them spending time on you, it is people who want a companion/ want to spread knowledge to others, and you work with them, which even if you sometime mess up you are still being helpful in most cases.

though i do agree the master-apprentice thing has fallen to far out of practice
User avatar #211 to #196 - shaddz (04/26/2014) [-]
which is a shame really, that kind of thing is a very useful option to have, hell if it was available in the UK I would have taken it, as I said though I did not mention it as I consider that a lucky find, like winning the lottery or becoming a celebrity.
#176 to #175 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
yeah, I doubt you need to go to 4 year college to become a brick-layer or welder
User avatar #182 to #176 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
Cause that's what the world needs... a ****** brick layer. Listen.You wanna be a brick layer or welder? Fine. but don't say that others don't need college, cause some of us want a life and a job to support it.
#197 to #182 - inczi (04/26/2014) [-]
Definitely the world needs more brick layers and welders than for examples lawyers, shich in my humble opinion are the scum of the earth.
User avatar #201 to #197 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
I'm not saying we need layers, hell we should kill them before they breed and take our money. but we could have people go to college and become say a therapist or doctor, someone who helps others, unlike layers who will more than likely screw you over.
#208 to #201 - inczi (04/26/2014) [-]
Well, unfortunately not all can be doctors and therapists. Actually, the economy of a country can afford to keep those kind of jobs if it makes money, and making money is what the main branches of economy are for. I don't know which ones are they, but I am guessing trade, industry, agriculture and logistics. I think that the US education/job system is really smart making getting higher education so hard for you people, because what economy needs the most are the specialised workers, not scientists, engineers etc. My country is ****** up because you go to University for free, everyone has a masters and now a specialized welder can make more money than an engineer.
#280 to #208 - apurpleliger (04/27/2014) [-]
A good welder in the US can make more than people who come out of college with a degree in fine arts or any educational subject such as history. Most people are just too stuck up to go into a job like that.
#184 to #182 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
shh kid
User avatar #191 to #184 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
>Shh kid

Why? cause I'm right? cause you're the minority opinion here?

You might want to reconsider about college, cause it looks like you need it.
#238 to #191 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
You still talking kid?
User avatar #245 to #238 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
Actually I stopped giving a **** like an hour ago. Give it a try.
#246 to #245 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
congrats, wait for people to award you with a medal soon
User avatar #247 to #246 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
On the edge of my seat
#249 to #247 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
User avatar #252 to #249 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
Regarding you're most recent comment, I realize you've been trying to tell me to **** off, I just don't care. You seem to have some rectal pains and suggest you see a doctor.
User avatar #250 to #249 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
I suggest forming a habit of typing complete words.
#251 to #250 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
I've been trying to gently tell you **** off already you retarded kid, I don't give a **** about your opinions and you keep sharing them with me
User avatar #206 to #191 - thatoneiranianguy ONLINE (04/26/2014) [-]
I feel like both sides of this conversation are retards. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

Some jobs don't need college, some jobs do. Regardless of whether or not they should, that's how it is now a days.

That being said, doing what you want to do in life is fine, go all at it. You can make it really good without going to college, just like you can make it really good with going to college. And in through both paths you may get unlucky and still not get what you want.

You have to accept the realities of the world and the market, because society doesn't guarantee you anything all the time, every time.

Also, @ shaddz ... You don't have to go to college to get trade skills from. I worked several years in a theatre in a highschool and am more than qualified for Theatre tech arts.

That being said, you can get through life the way you want to through many options, trade schools, apprenticeships/paid internships, college, the military. There's so many ways it's unbelievable. And believe it or not some college level jobs will take those who don't have it if they have some proof of experience, believe it or not.
User avatar #213 to #206 - shaddz (04/26/2014) [-]
Although I agree with you on the most parts... I do not know where you are from but where I am from that is not a trade skill, trade skills are joiners, builders, electricians etc which you have to go to college for so that you can get the correct certification and are not liable to kill large numbers of people by screwing up.

That being said I do not wish to belittle what you do as I do think it is pretty cool
#281 to #213 - apurpleliger (04/27/2014) [-]
I may be wrong, but I do believe that there are unions and businesses that will pay for you to get a 2-year degree in a trade, or at the very least help out. That being said, yes, you do have to show them that you're hard-working and competent, but in the end, even if a 4 year degree was free, you wouldn't get very far without being hard-working and competent.
User avatar #219 to #213 - thatoneiranianguy ONLINE (04/26/2014) [-]
Well, I suppose the only thing really "trade"ish about Theatre tech is the set builds.

I still do it occasionally, I never really saw it as a good career path, because it doesn't pay as good until you start working on bigger outlets like Broadway performances...which can pay brain surgeon salaries depending on which position you are...

I tend to agree though with the general sentiment, non-college jobs dont tend to pay as well unless you really spend your time and have a really good talent to work your way up into high paying positions with big businesses.
User avatar #220 to #219 - thatoneiranianguy ONLINE (04/26/2014) [-]
Oh and it helps to have connections when you're not going to college.
#181 to #176 - shaddz (04/26/2014) [-]
actually, you do. That is how they keep the quality of workers who don't build **** that just falls down.

Even in an apprenticeship you still spend half the time in college.

as I said, xmoke is right. You will not get a well paying job without being a celebrity, rich parents or a college education. There is only 1 person I know who gets a half decent wage out of college and he builds railway tracks, it is only agency work and the turnover is very high so they don't have to permanently hire which means what it is a temporary thing that still would not amass enough money to get you through a decent education.

by accounts of most of your other replies on FJ you seem to be a pretty cynical and realistic person, that however does not show here as you have no idea how the world works when it comes to jobs, finances or prospects for your future. My advice, don't drop out of school or you will find out all too quickly how fast your life can fall apart.
#183 to #181 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
>actually, you do

I'm gonna ask a source for that
User avatar #194 to #183 - superfakeaccount (04/26/2014) [-]
Please stop talking. Please.
#239 to #194 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
Why the **** I give an opinion about a retard like you? **** off
User avatar #256 to #239 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
I can't see you having lots of friends
#262 to #256 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
**** off already.
User avatar #263 to #262 - kindremind (04/26/2014) [-]
Oh no you thumbed down my comment. You can't just tell me to **** off and think I'm then obligated to do so.
User avatar #187 to #183 - shaddz (04/26/2014) [-]
sure, no problem

Here is the general city and guilds certification for the UK (AKA the lowest required for the job) www.cityandguilds.com/courses-and-qualifications/construction/construction/6705-bricklaying

and here are literally hundreds of other examples (FYI - anything thats marked as a 4 day course, if you click it, will tell you that it is a "taster" course to see if the field is right for you) lmgtfy.com/?q=bricklayer+course
#241 to #187 - stalini (04/26/2014) [-]
yeah, I googled it and you almost never need 4 years in most trade skills.
User avatar #271 to #241 - shaddz (04/26/2014) [-]
I didnt mean specifically 4 years, but college time certainly, usually 1-2 years. I myself am starting a biology degree, I already did 3 years of sciences in college, then another year going back 10 years later due to "misplaced" grades, and I am starting a 3 years bachelors at the end of the year. Hard work pays off if you're willing to do it
#289 to #271 - stalini (04/27/2014) [-]
The point was that you don't go in much debt if you pick up a trade skill and they pay pretty well too
#282 to #271 - apurpleliger (04/27/2014) [-]
Going back to the original point, you don't rack up $50k in debt from a 2-year degree. Most of them are very affordable, and the money can be made back within a few years in the trade you went to school for
User avatar #290 to #282 - shaddz (04/27/2014) [-]
stalini and you are somewhat right but at the same time there are fewer and fewer trade skill jobs going because of that very reason and the fact that due to the economy >MOST< building and trade related companies are losing business and even going under so what you end up with is a smaller debt and an even smaller chance of getting a job as a result. This is wht UK has it right for schooling, not as right as Norway but still not bad.
I will be taking a loan out of 9k a year for university plus expenses of 7.5k a year however if I do not earn over 21k a year then I do not pay anything back, if I fail to earn for 25 years, it gets wiped clean, no more debt. If however I earn over 21k a year it is slowly payed back at a small amount starting at £30 a month, if you move abroad you do not have to pay it back. My brother is a games designer and he says he barely notices his repayments each month. If you work hard for a decent career, the debt doesn't matter, if you take the course in a decent area (transfer if you have to) the debt doesn't matter.
as you said, going back to the original point, you can look for the easy way all you want but for the majority of people, well you may as well be pissing in the wind cus you are gambling whatever you do, you may as well pull your head out of your ass and work hard now for it to pay off in the long run. not rely on ifs and maybes just because you are too lazy to go to college.
#295 to #290 - apurpleliger (04/27/2014) [-]
"If you work hard for a decent career, the debt doesn't matter". That's one of the points I'm trying to make. If you make good choices in life and don't go to a stupidly expensive school for a degree in a field where you can never make that money back, you're going to fall under and you should for being stupid about your money. If you go to a school you can afford to pay off with a degree you know you can make money in, you'll do well as long as you work hard.

As far as the UK financial aid system goes, that seems to be wholly irresponsible. If you move abroad you don't have to pay it back? That just sounds ridiculous. Where are the consequences for your actions?

And it's not about being too lazy to go to college. College isn't for everyone. These days, it seems like everyone is being told to go to college after they graduate, but all that is doing is forcing kids to make poor choices and end up in debt for years to come. I'm getting a degree in a field that I know I can get a job in, and that I know I can make a good living out of. If I couldn't do that, I might have gotten a technical degree or I might have just gone into the field and worked as a construction worker or something of that sort. The economy still needs people in those "low-education" fields, and that isn't going to change. The problem is people decide they go to college and rack up debt and still end up in those jobs, but now with college expenses and 2-4 years of work less than they could have otherwise.
#291 to #290 - stalini (04/27/2014) [-]
do if you study something useful, you'll repay your debts.

If you study liberal arts or some **** like that, yeah, tough luck, but you derved it
User avatar #294 to #291 - shaddz (04/27/2014) [-]
GASP! where you from then?
#296 to #294 - stalini (04/27/2014) [-]
far, far away from it
User avatar #292 to #291 - shaddz (04/27/2014) [-]
now that I can agree with
#293 to #292 - stalini (04/27/2014) [-]
now, a surprise: I'm not an American.
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