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Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By Snowy on 3/13/2007 10:09:22 AM , Rating: 0
This article is stating that these cards will require PCIe 2.0... Do we even have motherboards that support 2.0 yet? Or can you plug in a PCIe card into a 2.0 slot? If you can't, I think this is a bad decision on AMTI's part. Nobody has these new PCIe 2.0 slots in their motherboard yet... Do they want these to sell?

RE: Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By FrankM on 3/13/2007 10:35:01 AM , Rating: 2
1.) No, not yet. Bearlake is expected to be the first with PCIe 2.0
2.) Yes, you can. PCIe 2.0 cards are backwards compatible with normal PCIe slots; you just won't get the additional features (higher bandwidth and power).

RE: Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By raven3x7 on 3/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By sdsdv10 on 3/13/2007 1:43:15 PM , Rating: 2
That is good to know. thanks! I was afraid we were going to have another AGP to PCIE debacle.

Please explain how you feel the AGP to PCIe change was a debacle. I would like to know you thoughts on a better way to replace one hardware standard with another. This process is always difficult and I don't see any simple way to make it easier. At some point, you just have to make the switch. Same thing with DDR to DDR2. In most cases the benefits of the new technology outway the cost and difficulties associated with the change over.

RE: Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By Polynikes on 3/13/07, Rating: 0
RE: Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By othercents on 3/13/2007 3:12:34 PM , Rating: 2
I purchased my first AGP system in 98 and upgraded the video card and/or motherboard almost every year. This have given me almost 8 years worth of use along with about 6 different video cards. PCI Express was initially created in 2004, but we didn't see mass production of the standard until 2005. I didn't purchase a PCI Express machine until mid year 2006.

Based on the video tests that I have seen, video cards haven't see much of a performance boost with PCI Express compared to the AGP counterparts. However the bus speed with PCI Express far exceeds AGP and will be more apparent with the newer video cards.

If you compare AGP to your standard PCI bus you will notice a major difference in speed especially with the last 8x versions of the bus. This is one of the reasons why I could never say that AGP was a debacle. It had a very good purpose when it was created and another technology became a better choice. As technology moves forward you will find other technology that does the same (IE. DVI vs HDMI).


RE: Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By D4rr3n on 3/13/2007 4:40:24 PM , Rating: 2


Yes, exactly right, the only advantage performance wise PCIe brings is the ability to connect multiple video cards together. PCIe at any speed rating will give you ZERO performance increase over AGP8x versions of the same card. Not only that, 4x and 8x AGP do not perform any differently either (so therefore 2 cards with the same exact specs one on PCIex16 and the other on 4xAGP should perform equally as well). This is simply due to how the system works and the transfer speed of the agp or pcie connection not being a bottleneck. This will continue to be true as long as the memory on the graphics card and your system memory is adequate. The transfer speed only comes into play when all the the information loaded to your video cards memory (mostly large textures and other stuff at the load of a level) has completely filled it and it needs to request a large amount of information or a bunch of small transfers back and forth repeatedly MID GAME. If that doesn't happen you will never, EVER notice a difference. With the memory on some of todays cards and future cards that should never be experienced.

RE: Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By D4rr3n on 3/13/2007 4:11:02 PM , Rating: 2
Well this is my take on it (and I'm not giving you a hard time or ragging on your or anything like that), if you want to stay on the cutting edge you are going to be replacing lots of equipment quite often. There is simply nothing you can do....other than accepting your decision to either stay on the cutting edge or live with what you have. I'm not sure if you're saying you want it to last 1.5 or 3 years? If you expect 3 expect to be disappointed as you watch technology pass you by. You may get 1.5 and you may not, it really depends on your timing and luck.

Just some stuff of the top of my head for an example of recent changes: ddr to ddr2 to ddr3 soon was very rapid, AMD changed sockets fast enough to make your head spin I believe at least 6 sockets in the past 3.5 years with another 2 by the middle of next year, the move from ata to sata and now sata 3gb (with Intel going sata only on some boards) and esata and sas trying to creep in as well, the rapidly increasing power requirements and connector types that may have required a new PSU, of course the agp to pcie switch and many more things I'm sure I'm forgetting. Unfortunately it is just the nature of the beast.

I certainly understand where you are coming from though. My biggest complaint is the cost of AGP cards ESPECIALLY at retail. I understand part of pcie being made the standard quite quickly was because it also cut down on manufacturing costs but when has that EVER affected the pricing of premium hardware? Generally better performance = higher price, worse performance = lower price. I have 2 older systems networked here and I don't use them much but I was looking to get a new agp card for one of them and the pricing is just assbackwards.

But anyways if you managed to get 3 years out of your system you should be more than satisfied, IMHO that is a long time. I probably average a new build once a year though it'll vary on which new tech is needed or available. I've gone as low as 6 months between full builds and if I was lucky I got 1.5 years out of the system. It's not as expensive as you think, I can easily turn around a pc to a coworker or friend who isn't technically inclined and will pay a premium. And of course there is always ebay where people will buy anything. Just sell your equipment you plan to replace before any serious depreciation occurs and you shouldn't have many complaints.

RE: Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By bob4432 on 3/14/2007 11:09:14 PM , Rating: 2
i wouldn't say esata and sas trying to creep in, they are for different uses - esata - obviously external sata - good for external hdds but not much better than 1394a/b or usb2 unless you use the hell out of the drive in which case esata=sata.

sas=servers - using 2.5" 10K sas hdds give datacenters a very high amount of storage in GB per area used (not sure how they measure - i rack units, or whatever) so that is where that is coming in. but at least they are making sas controllers able to control sata drives :)

RE: Wait... PCIe 2.0?!
By Anonymous Freak on 3/13/2007 10:01:40 PM , Rating: 2
No, it's much more like AGP 2x to AGP 4x.


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