

China and America

A sigh of relief

A vital relationship survives a critical test

See article

Readers' comments



A funny thing happened on the way to this forum.

If anyone thinks Chen Guangcheng gained freedom "at last" when he arrived the land of the free, he is in for a big surprise.

According to "Want Daily", a Taiwan based newspaper who had advocated exit visa to the US for Mr. Chen before his release from China, reported today that no one is allowed to talk to Mr. Chen or his family without being on a special list of approval. Not even to leave a gift for him.

And he is not permitted to speak to anyone outside that list of personnel without approval from a "public relation organization".

Perhap he must be debriefed, coached or otherwised prepared before his appearance, but if such ban on Chen's freedom of movement and speech persists much long, what price "freedom" and what an irony for the world to see?

Houshu in reply to justlistenall

I commented on the subject on May 6th:
"The most egregious injustice Mr. Chen is suffering now is that so many people, some doesn't even speak his language, are stuffing their own words in Mr. Chen's mouth.
I bet one Yuan that when he finally goes to US and opens his mouth, it'll be pure gibberish."

I guess I won the bet, even if it takes just one day for Chen to prepare and digest the words stuffed in his mouth (ones does not need to be debriefed about his own words, right?).

Garaboncias in reply to justlistenall

" According to "Want Daily", a Taiwan based newspaper.."

Has this claim been confirmed? Or it is just another form of propaganda intended for those pesky dissidents who think that the US is a free country?... As opposed to the "One True Free Country"?...

Jean Michel in reply to Garaboncias

Chen in the US is more more a prisoner than he was in China. Now, he is not allow to express himself. He is kept isolated, like in a cage and must have no contact with people except those appointed by his paymaster. He must learn by heart the words and expressions that his American paymaster has prepared for him and repeat them in front of the camera without fail, otherwise he will be severely punished and send back to...China. Meanwhile, the naive American public is expecting him to perform miracles.

Garaboncias in reply to Jean Michel

How do you know what he is allowed to say, or not to say, if he is kept in isolation, as you claim, by his "paymaster"? Are you his paymaster? You seem to be privy to information only a paymaster would know about ("He must learn by heart the words and expressions that his American paymaster has prepared for him and repeat them in front of the camera without fail, otherwise he will be severely punished and send back to...China."). China must scare him an awful lot if he is doing all you claim he is doing, just so that he is not sent back...
" Meanwhile, the naive American public is expecting him to perform miracles." What did you have in mind? Walking on water; turning water into wine; curing the sick?... Having been able to come here is a miracle in itself, in the eyes of quite a few people both in China and the US - and his own, too, no doubt...

Jean Michel in reply to Garaboncias

Of course! Of course! It is indeed a miracle that he has finally landed in the US. For six days, he was waiting in the US embassy in Beijing while the US administration officials were wrangling among themselves. Meanwhile, his broken foot was hurting and he had no medical assistance. It must have been an ordeal for him during these six days.

Chelsea L8 in reply to Garaboncias

The payment for your Government trying to destroy China use the name of "human right, freedom and so on". For example, The Tibetan monks kill the Han nationality, but your government pay for them every year named "human right, froodem", and Xinjiang, and Falun Gong and so on. If Chinese gov pay for al-Qaeda, how do you think? About Chen, in the social og China, who really cares him? He is the hero in US packing by your government.

kommonsenses in reply to justlistenall

'Perhap he must be debriefed, coached or otherwised prepared before his appearance'?
a more polite way of saying it is:

perhaps he must be brainwashed thoroughly, with tricks and treats, or even threats, before he could utter any word (of planted script of course) to average american people.

worse, perhaps telling americans who to vote for president, in effect?


I feel sorry for the Chinese gaurds whose only job was to make sure a blind man couldn't leave his house LOL.

kommonsenses in reply to the.ronin

that goes for the american guards in new york too, of course.

it turned out chen is not a free man in USA. what a shame.
'justlistenall's story of 'want daily' news below is true.

(I have just checked it out). the chen story appeared on page A12 of 2012-5-24 issue of 'Want Daily' in chinese language. (it has an english site but I didn't bother to check that because my main purpose was to verify 'justlistenall's post of May 24th, 19:17 here, and it checked out.)


Well, this is a no-brainer for China: Chen is a loose cannon, who is very likely to embarrass his "freedom" hosts; let him do his damage abroad.

As for Yang Rui, he is an excellent talk show host on CCTV, who always calls a spade a spade.

Gao MF in reply to milonguero139

Mr Chen would do well to take a look at similar cases of other human rights activists who left China for America before him.
All such activists who left had a brief moment of fame, and were immediately discarded and ignored by all the media right afterward. They all now live in poverty without a way out. Go read up on all the famous Tienanmen youth leaders if interested.
Mr Chen countdown has already begun. I hope he enjoys his moment in the spotlight. And a poor and meaningless life for the next 50 years.


you really need to take a great leap of logic to link Chen's case with a British pervert trying to rape a woman on the street and a Russian cellist harassing a woman on a train.

Chen has enjoyed many sympathy in China as well, while the later two silly foreigners don't. And while the behaviors of those two foreigners are publicized, Chen's case isn't.

Jean Michel

Now the American public has got their very rare animal. Now, they can go to the zoo and look at him and admire him and be wowed by him. But before, he must be mentally fed properly. For that purpose, the organisation that has "freed" him, that has sponsored him and has brought him to the US must prepare for him the right scenario to wow the naive Americans. For the present moment, there is no need to make him jump over high walls nor to break his foot. These were done already and the American public has admired his unparalled physical achievement. What is needed now is the right dress, the right haircut and the right glasses that would appeal to the American public. Then, Chen will have to learn the exact words that his paymaster will have prepared for him, in the right tone and with the right expressions. He will be kept in training for at least one month for that. Meanwhile, he is more a prisoner than he was in China. Should he break psychologically under the heavy pressure and expectations, he will be dumped somewhere. Fortunately for him, China will always be there to welcome him.

Jean Michel in reply to Hibro

Do you mean that the American paymaster is already fed up with him and is planning his exit from the US? It has not taken long.
Or, perhaps the American paymaster has not been able to obtain from the US Government the necessary funds to keep him for more than a year. Economic depression and budgetary cuts must have played a part.


It is outrageous to see the juxtaposition of a rapist and a hooligan in the train and Chen. Chinese government does not need to show strong muscle after letting Chen go to US. There is no point to relate them.

China has not learnt how to dealt with the huge inflow of the foreigners and immigrants, unlike US, which has a long history and more or less working system with immigration. Look at the foreigners in Guangzhou. How many of them hold a valid visa or status? Luckily for now Chinese do not need to worry too much about losing jobs to them. Still China needs to catch up on the immigration management. At beginning, some measures may later prove to be overreacting and influenced by nationalism. But it is for sure Chinese government needs to take care of this.

xaveria in reply to GLCUYFa78i

I would argue that, to the best of my knowledge, China deals with immigrants far better than the U.S. does. I have only second-hand information about foreigners in China, but almost everyone I know who has lived there has thoroughly enjoyed it.

The American system, on the other hand, is deplorable -- the massive number of illegal immigrants who live in abject poverty, the crime, the snakeheads, the sexual trafficking, the over-crowded prisons. The hypocrisy of politicians who understand that illegal immigrants are vital to our economy, but they pander to the anti-immigrant lobby in speeches and petty persecution. There is a *#$& border war raging in southern Texas which most Americans barely notice.

The Chinese hardliners are certainly overreacting to the incident -- the Chinese media is as over-defensive as the Western media is over-sensationalized. But I think many Americans are also reaching on this one. One dissident and some online anti-foreigner ranting does not mean a broken immigration system, particularly compared to ours.


Chen called US congress (live) from China twice, now he is in the US, why can't he call at least a dozen talk shows? Don't tell me Limbaugh is not interested in talking to him...

Chen, tomorrow it's Open Line Friday, call!

Jean Michel in reply to Houshu

Chen has not yet learn the lines prepared for him by his American paymaster. So he is not ready for Limbaugh. You must give him time. For the time being, he is nursing his broken foot which seems to stick with him. Probably, his plastered foot and his crutches have become his recognisable symbols and his paymaster has told him never to go around in public without them. He will have to stay like that all the rest of his life. Poor fellow.


The neocons will call upon the commies to let the freedom loving people go. There are probably a few hundred millions dissenters who want to leave. Unlike the occupiers, these people will contribute to the moribund economy which has grown rather slowly through their hard work and enterprise.

ouyoumei in reply to happyfish18

hundred millions dissenters or just migrant-aspirant disguising as dissenters. Chinese immigrants in US/Canada tend not to exercise their rights nor hold any political clout, mainly because they don't vote nor congregate, a sign most immigrants are driven by economic incentives rather than ideology. Not good :(

happyfish18 in reply to Hibro

Based on their history and personal experience, they know deep down that liberal democracy cannot thrive on China soil. The emerging democracy will have to have local characteristics that cannot be transplanted from abroad.

ouyoumei in reply to Hibro

I know he settled in Taiwan but he sure put on a lot of weight.

Lol, good point about displacing the communist.

But I really doubt if most of the Chinese know what they are asking, or just the due anarchist sentiments that usually happens within the Confucist dynastic cycle. Communist came to power because the people blindly blindly blindly believed by toppling the KMT, whatever comes next will be better. They can't be more wrong.

I don't believe blind obedience to Beijing is a good answer la... but democracy needs to be implemented like heart surgery with a lot of patience and delicacy. Do it hastily then China dies like it happened in 1912 :(


The Tiananmen protest leaders used to be so pure when they were young. As they aged, had more exposure of what American really are like, what Chinese people really are like, they'd seem to have lost their innocence... but this is just my cynical opinion. In any case, exposure is a good thing, best luck to Chen. Even though he is physically blind, may he not hold any blind faith about America's ideological providence. And if he sincerely holds no regrets with the test of time, then we'd have something worth looking into.


Now that Communist China is becoming a harmonious and prosperous society that can afford to be more tolerant towards dissidents, I suggest that Harvard Kennedy School of Government should invite Guangcheng Chen, Guagua Bo and MingZe (aka Mimi) Xi (they are all now students at "prestigious" Universities in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, no?) to a free and frank podiums discussion (or town hall meeting in American political parlance) on the future of democracy, human rights and free speech in both the USA and China. Free speech (and not political correctness) is the true trademark of "venerable" American Universities, no? Besides, after exchanging all that free trade, T-bills (China is allowed to buy directly from the US government, I heard), manufacturing jobs and technology (reverse-engineered or not), the USA and China are now inseparable allies converging towards a common destiny as Nixon and Kissinger predicted. Wise men indeed!
Oh well, "All's well that ends well" (according to Shakespeare)

Sentinelese in reply to Sentinelese

I forgot to mention that perhaps Harvard should also invite Dongmei Kong who was a student at Penn (but not Xinyu Mao) Maybe Melissa Chan (the Po Fu lady?) and Rui Yang can be the moderators of this open-ended discussion about the following topics:
1. Socialism with Chinese Characteristics
The great banner of socialism with Chinese characteristics is the banner guiding development and progress in contemporary China and
rallying the whole Party and the people of all ethnic
groups in the country in our common endeavor.
2. Emancipating the Mind
Emancipating the mind is a magic instrument for
developing socialism with Chinese characteristics.
3. Reform and Opening Up provide a strong driving force
for developing it, and scientific development and social
harmony are basic requirements for developing it.
SOCIETY IN ALL RESPECTS (that's not Shakespeare though!)

Again, unfortunately there is only one problem left for China, and rest of Asia and the world as a whole for that matter, and the problem is racist ethnocentric Burmese terrorists who like to murder innocent civilians in neighboring countries.
China, India, Pakistan, and especially Thailand must do more to secure their border with Burma in order to protect their citizens from terrorist attacks!


Most Chinese don't hate the foreigners and they have sympathy for Chen. But their voices are seldomly heard because it is risky to speak for Chen and those sexual assulting foreigners. I think the author may have misjudged the real situation in China by simply referring to the public reports which are controlled by the governments. If you want to know the real China ,please come here and talk with Chinese for yourself. You will get the real information.

general j in reply to A4YJzKYq8t

Hey, don't speak for Chinese. I'm Chinese, don't hate foreigners and I don't have sympathy for Chen. Anyway, he is finally away from China. So next time he got trouble, there will be another country for him to blame. Good for everyone.

A4YJzKYq8t in reply to Arno_Xu

Yes, I live in China and I am s college student in China. If you read news published in Chinese by State media, I suggest you reading its comments posted by netizens-if comments are allowed- where you can get the more comprehensive picture of what and how we are thinking about things happening around the world, including and mostly things happened in China.

A4YJzKYq8t in reply to general j

Of course I speak for Chinese. Chinese people are excellent but live in the poorly developed economic and political environment. They are hard working but with little real chance participate in the political process. Their voices are not so often heared by the world. That is why I suggest those who study China problems should come here to listen to the people himself.

Joseph Tan

IMAGINE - 1) how many country can produce a blind person and getting a law degree and passed the country (China) Bar exam to practise? The blind guy,Guangcheng Chen, should be very grateful to China

2) Since he is blind, most of his views if not all his views are through the eyes of a third party/ies, which means that he may have no personal knowledge. i.e. hearsay but also subjected to distortion, concoction and manipulation of these third party/ies.

3) What make UNCLE SAM (US) think that s(he) is acting on a high moral ground when allowing this blind activists asylum in the States vis-a-vis remain in China when the whole episode, I can gather is to cast shame and embarrass on China, a politically motivated move.


Can this be a sign that our government is changing its attitudes towards activists? I just hope that we Chinese citisens could learn more facts of what happened in the past and what's going on at the moment.

kommonsenses in reply to Crazy610

I should hope so.

china should just ship out (on voluntary basis of course) all chinese, dissident or human righternot, but without criminal corruption record or case pending, who want to emigrate to other countries to the destinations of their choosing (america, australia and uk would be my top choice for them.), taking with them their families, fortunes, talents, EMBA degrees, and girlfriends if any, all 20 millions of them.

even a single nation australia can handle all 20 m of them with no sweat.

their departure from china and immigration to other countries should help to pull the doldrums out of world's economic downturn, and make room for hordes of other up and coming chinese at home.

a recent gallop poll says about 20 million chinese wish to emigrate anyway. but since when china is short of people? let them all go for heaven's sake.


Like Chen Guangcheng, I am also pro-life and against abortions. I am looking forward to support Chen to pressure the neocons to allow these women to deliver their surplus babies in the West for adoption or to raise them on their own means. There will be a boom in the delivery services. The neocons finally have a chance to put the money in their mouths.


There is no real nationalist in china in my view . Just
some crude mobs or some net_commenter who get payment from Maoist.

Maoist? The Chinese government is clearly capitalistic rather than Maoist.
And when you cannot argue with other people based on facts and evidences, you impugn their character (claiming they are mobs and 50 centers). This is exactly what the Maoist Red Guards like to do, claiming those who have different opinions as counter-revolutionaries. Shame on you.

Liu Sidian

(Radical) nationalism in China is far from mainstream, on which a domestic newspaper, Economic Observer, devoted a thorough analysis early last year.

Repression in China is a legacy of the past, and has aways been in decline. What's on the rise is pushing the limit of openness. The critics are almost certainly invisible in any extremely repressive country.

In fact, nobody in China believes the government respects the human rights in according to "Western standards". It just want to save some face. Everybody knows that, and everybody know that it is about pragmatism. To be sure, this will not change the course to a more open society for China.


@DorothyLeung 3 hours 39 mins ago

‘Much Ado About Nothing......................’ my dear?

Go read 'justlistenall' post (May 24th, 19:17):
‘A funny thing happened on the way to this forum.




so what gives? It says big powers are no different, in shanghai or new york, ‘freedom’ my foot.

Chen was in house arrest in china, now he remains a person in prison equivalent of house arrest, in usa.

TigerHan in reply to kommonsenses

I have to give up citizenship, but my life is still unknown, so this group of people are still hung like me a way to do something, let me go, Guess why, because my head was mounted on the chip, which records all their crimes. Today, I opened a passport, forget the second time I fell in Ethiopia date May 16, 2009 to May 29, 2009, only thirteen days, my nephew say, in Dubai for ten days, arrangements for my family said to me mind there is a problem if you do not pick up all costs borne by them, opened a real international joke. My thirteen days is really a breathtaking large film, did not give Ethiopia falling out of the day, murdered,------。 Lie on both sides, we can see the evil of these people. I would first purpose of Ethiopia, because I cut off ties with the business side, I saw online that some people have been arrested, I guess with the potential to engage the person concerned knows, so I rushed to Ethiopia, to seek this group of people let go. The second is I want to change the certificate of approval to do jewelry. The first thing of course is no trivial matter, is Ethiopian traditional big family, is also the most senior government leaders of children. I went to my partners home, does not see the situation at home, I almost fainted, I was over forty degrees of hair with a high fever. That even my son who want to be my son are afraid to speak, his father is Ethiopian Prime Minister Meles Zenawi three decades of colleagues, before his family could be the second largest Ethiopian forces family. Of course he has no right that retired now, but this effect is what? My partner, he is sitting in the same eight Meles's sister, the work of the African Union, Foreign Minister's son is my friend. What kind do you want, was referred to the country people go. Cooperative relationship between the intention to make jewelry, involving moderate Muslims in Africa.
Zhang was aware of my relatives do it? America's largest Chinese jeweler. I am dead, my dead my funeral in Hawaii.
tigers (TigerHan) 2011/9/4



Products & events