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Mark-maria Agatemor

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The "I", the interior world, Nakedness.

Shame and Modesty are the natural sentiments that protects the intimate of man. The sense of shame gives rise to the concept of privacy. A man (or woman) without shame, lacks privacy. Modesty for him or her is for people of ancient times. I wonder, when the calendar has become the standard for human's actions.
The natural tendency to protect one's intimate world from the gaze of strangers also includes the body. This is why a person wears clothes. Nakedness is not natural: It presupposes the rejection of privacy. Dressing serves to preserves the body within one's intimacy. Nakedness renders the body an object that is presented in anonymity.

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    Oct 5 2012: Nakedness was natural before Man sinned against his Creator God. You are correct that it is no longer natural. What exactly is your idea, Mr. Agatemor?
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      Oct 5 2012: Thank you Mr Edward. I still maintain the point, "Nakedness is not natural". Speaking of it, before the sin of Man - Adam, as the bible tells us in Genesis chapter three, I quote, "And God said, 'Who told you that you were naked". Analysis God's question, Who told you? What does that mean, Mr Edward.
      Again, in the verses seven of that same chapter, when they realized, (when man realized), they sewed fig leaves and made themselves aprons.
      Why do they have to do that, after all, it was just two of them in the Garden. And when God came to visit them, they were hiding, Why?
      If indeed, it is natural as you are pointing out, why did they have to cover it, even from each other?
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        Oct 6 2012: You are correct to say nakedness is unnatural. I was pointing-out that it was not always unnatural.
        God's question about who told them they were naked reveals the fact that they were not aware of their nakedness prior to that. Someone (the Serpent, aka Satan) made them feel shame and gave them a strong desire to cover-up what was had been pure and natural. The new feeling of shame, coupled with the knowledge that death accompanied their rebellion (chapter 2, verse 17), caused them to hide from God out of shame and fear.
  • Oct 18 2012: People wear clothes for a couple reasons. First of all it has been very necessary to repress sexuality to some degree in a society. Mans inclination to destroy one another over a sexual prize is as old as the roots of civilization.

    According to Freud, shame arose out of evolving into social beings. One of Freud's examples was that animals seem to show no shame over going to the bathroom in front of people. Well why would humans show shame over this. Very simple, we are social creatures and in a pack you must worry about somebody else, thus offending another member of the tribe with the smell of your excrement induced shame. Shame arose out of getting along with other members of your tribe. Since this has been a necessity to the survival of human beings we are naturally inclined to care what others think of us, shame is a product of caring what it is others think. Nakedness is very natural, do you see any other species besides ours wearing clothes? I would also like to add that little clothing was worn in primitive tribes, much of the clothing was probably just a slight protection against mans most important parts(the ones that play a role in passing on genes or nurturing newborns).

    People wish to protect there interior world only when they believe it is of no worth. If we are to get along in the future and survive there is one thing humans must do, that is to open up so that others can finally see that underneath it all people are VASTLY similar.
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    Oct 18 2012: The "I" has no shame, it is "Other" that finds shame in I.
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    Oct 13 2012: I support the agreement that we wear clothes when gathered as a group. This is a collective agreement. I also agree not to pick my nose or fart as well. In my world my clothes are a formal enterance into a public collective,in which I shall not shock or attempt to scare or misbehave as a matter of social conscience. Shame,or privacy may in some cases be the emotional muscle that backs this social agreement. The goal for me in all cases is not to be right or condescend,or intimidate anyone,but to ensure we all remain calm and truly evolved as we build or society toghether. Clothes,like houses,and shut doors are for me a way to gather my primitve self and prepare my behaviour for the transition over to the formal meetings of groups.Privacy then or nakedness rather then,exist for me privately,shame is when I am unprepared or uncivilized as I present myself to the world.
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    . . 100+

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    Oct 6 2012: " not NATURAL" ?! Where in NATURE have you seen a human baby born with clothes?!!
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      Oct 11 2012: A human baby is not born with clothes, neither can you refer to such state as nakedness. Now, is the baby rational? The baby is a person in potency, that is why he is not guilty of many of his actions until he gets to age of reason. But, if we should keep all that a man is born with, why is umbilical cord cut?
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    Oct 6 2012: Huh?
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    Oct 6 2012: Mark, I am neither a social anthropolgist nor a religious scholar. I can take a shot at your question but would much prefer that you tell me what it is that you are seeking.
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      Oct 6 2012: Robert. I seek the truth.
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        Oct 6 2012: Great we all do .... Now once again what is the question that you are seeking the truth to.
        • Oct 11 2012: Yup. This is exactly why the mice commissioned Magratheans to build the earth: to discover the question. Too bad the Vogons destroyed the earth before the question could be discovered.
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        Oct 11 2012: Great so there is no question. Might as well close the conversation.

        I just thought of something its not yours

        Mark is this the answer you wanted , That there is no question? No truth?

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    Oct 5 2012: I do not see shame and modesty as natural sentiments. I see them as learned sentiments.

    Yes, they offer the illusion of personal secrets, but for those who know how to see through the facades, there are no secrets. You can see that by how people dress. Some wear fancy clothing and some jeans and a T-shirt. Some women wear no makeup and leave their hair the natural color even as it turns to a beautiful color of silver. Others work hard to hide the aging process using unnatural products. This says much about them.

    Those who try the hardest to hide who they are behind the clothing and the makeup are those who are filled with shame. They are the ones who have never looked within to see the magnificent beauty