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Congresswoman Gabby Giffords Shot "Point Blank In The Head" At Town Hall Event In Tucson

Tyler Durden's picture


From Breaking News: Local media is reporting Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, a Democrat, was shot ‘point blank in the head at a town-hall like event in northern Tucson. Is this the beginning?

Update from NBC News:  Dem Party in Tucson saying Giffords taken to hospital, 5 others also shot. Shooter apparently in custody.

Update 2: from Fox Phoenix: 12 people shot at Gabby Giffords community meeting. Congresswoman among the injured, while CNN reports 6 dead and 15 wounded.

Update 3: NPR confirms Gifford has died.

Update 4: Reuters refuting the previous NPR news, and states that Giffords is still alive, in surgery, nine other patients brought in from shooting, per a hospital spokeswoman

The best coverage of this event we have found so far is, ironically, on Sky News:

And now it gets pathetically political: Breaking news reports that a liberal blogger blames Sarah Palin for Gabrielle Giffords assasination attempt.

“F*** it. I’m going there” One liberal blogger wrote on Saturday
after news of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot dead in point
blank range at a Tuscon rally. The blogger TBogg
blamed former Alaskan Governor Sarah Palin for the congresswoman’s
death after Palin named Giffords as one of her ‘targets’ during the 2010
mid-term elections. Palin was caught in controversy when she published on her Facebook
page a graphic that showed several ‘target’ districts, including
Giffords 8th district in Arizona.

Gawker has provided a description of the shooter:

A gunman indiscriminately fired into a crowd at a gathering for Democratic representative Gabrielle Giffords outside a Safeway in Tucson, Arizona this morning. Giffords and at least five others were shot, according to NPR. The gunman was tackled and arrested.

Update: We spoke to an eyewitness, Steven Rayle who
was on the scene at the time of the shooting and helped to hold the
suspect down while waiting for police. Here's what he said:

The event was very informal: Gifford had set up a table outside the
Safeway and about 20-30 people were gathered to talk to her. The gunman,
who may have come from inside the Safeway, walked up and shot Gifford
in the head first. According to Rayle, who is a former ER doctor,
Gifford was able to move her hands after being shot.

After shooting Gifford, the gunman opened fire indiscriminately for a
few seconds, hitting a number of people, including a kid no older than
10 years old. Rayle hid behind a concrete pole and pretended to be dead.
When the gunman apparently ran out of ammunition he attempted to flee,
but a member of Gifford's staff tackled him. The Rayle helped hold him
down while waiting for the sheriff to arrive, about 15-or 20 minutes
later. 30 minutes later the EMS came. Rayle said he was "stunned" by how
long it took medical help to arrive.

The man was young, mid-to-late 20s, white clean-shaven with short
hair and wearing dark clothing and said nothing during the shooting or
while being held down. He didn't look like a businessman, but more of a
"fringe character," our source said.

From Giffrods Wikipedia page:

Gabrielle Giffords (born June 8, 1970) is the U.S. Representative for Arizona's 8th congressional district. She is a member of the Democratic Party.

She is the only member of the U.S. Congress whose spouse, astronaut Mark E. Kelly, is an active duty member of the U.S. military.[1]

Giffords is known as a strong proponent of solar energy as well as for her work to secure the border with Mexico.[2] [3]

Giffords was first sworn in as a congresswoman on January 3, 2007.
She is the third woman in Arizona's history to be elected to serve in
the U.S. Congress. In her inaugural speech on the floor of the House of
Representatives, Giffords said a comprehensive immigration reform
package needs to include modern technology to secure the border, more
border patrol agents, tough employer sanctions for businesses that
first month in office, Congresswoman Giffords voted to support increased
federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research, raising the minimum wage, endorsing the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission,
and supporting new rules for the House of Representatives targeting
ethical issues. Giffords also voted to repeal subsidies to big oil
companies and invest the savings in renewable energy. "We put our national security at risk by relying on oil from unstable regimes in the Middle East and Latin America," Giffords told her colleagues in a speech on the House floor during debate on the Clean Energy Act. The act repeals $14 billion in subsidies given to oil companies and establishes a Strategic Renewable Energy Reserve to increase research in clean renewable energy, to develop greater energy efficiency, and to improve energy conservation.

During the 2007 session of Congress, Giffords introduced a bill (H.R. 1441)[4] that forbids the sale of F-14 aircraft parts on the open market.[5] She also voted for the contentious May 2007 Iraq Emergency Supplemental Spending bill,
saying, "I cannot, in good conscience, allow the military to run out of
money while American servicemen and women are being attacked every

Giffords is a member of the Blue Dog Coalition and the New Democrat Coalition.

More as we see it.


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Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:29 | 858851 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Beginning of what, exactly?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:39 | 858880 velobabe
velobabe's picture

show of how pissed off people are. left center right. damn, tucson has some serious housing bubble work to boot†

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:06 | 859258 Armchair Bear
Armchair Bear's picture

This is what Gerald Celente suggested would be happening soon, as well as the web bot reports - people acting alone, most likely with not much to lose, if anything, "losing it"...

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:27 | 859633 Malcolm Tucker
Malcolm Tucker's picture

I agree. Just think of how much more violent things will get when people are hungry:

Charting Bushels & Bernankes:


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:50 | 859777 Malcolm Tucker
Malcolm Tucker's picture

Here is a screenshot of the gunman's MySpace page before it was taken down:

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:54 | 859800 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

There was a post on the Ron Paul blog that it was fake because the page was created today.  Can't confirm now that the page was taken down.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:19 | 859916 Malcolm Tucker
Malcolm Tucker's picture

Thanks for highlighting that. I will do some more digging. 

In the meantime, here is a case against Loughner in AZ in 2008:



Sun, 01/09/2011 - 03:52 | 861302 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

another story quotes the local sheriff as noting that "bigotry" has gotten out of hand, particularly in arizona.  perhaps her being jewish accounts for some of his feelings.  i don't know if it was part of the shooter's motive but it's a possibility.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:46 | 860055 sawyer
sawyer's picture

This guy was political motive. Look at these videos.






Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:32 | 860220 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Most likely this was ANOTHER Manchurian candidate-type assassination attempt.  The guy appears to be demented, if not outright nuts from those videos posted.

This will be used to crackdown on political criticism, and politicians will rarely speak to their constituents in public after this, IMO.

Its always better to control the public's perception by creating the incident (attack by  a 'crazy' on a politician) than waiting for the incident to happen, and doing damage control after the fact.

Check out our latest PsychoNews story: Signs of the Apocalypse

Its not that PsychoNews is opposed to looking at the bright side of the economy, its that certain issues must be addressed for real recovery to take place, companies have to be allowed to go bankrupt again (no more Too Big to Fail), mark-to-market accounting has to be brought back (for EVERYONE), US debt has to be defaulted on, manufacturing brought back to North America, (private) central banking outlawed...  Until those things happen every uptick in GDP or fantasy unemployment statistics is meaningless.  The issues of shadow housing inventory (held off the market by banks), unfunded liabilties, government deficits, currency debasement and structural unemployment continue to lurk.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:35 | 860230 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

As a bonus (to the Oligarchy), it looks like the Congresswoman was actually one of the more honest politicians, and not only that, the shooter raves like a lunatic about gold!  This is a dream come true for the elites, just like the 'mysterious' death of John Wheeler a week ago.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 21:39 | 860597 drwells
drwells's picture

Exactly. Those were my first two thoughts: (1) Of course, they would shoot someone who doesn't even appear to deserve it; and (2) wait'll Fatherland Security gets rolling on this. Just another in a long chain of Reichstag fires.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 00:39 | 861028 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Deserve?  In the words of William Munny, "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."  Just being an emperial functionary gives some nut-job ideas.

I fear you are spot on in point 2).

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 07:15 | 861030 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture


Sun, 01/09/2011 - 07:16 | 861038 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:00 | 860797 Michael
Michael's picture

Things like this that the elites do not control, especially on their time line, are not welcome by the elite. Look for copycats. BTFD in Gold and Silver.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:14 | 860828 frankoo
frankoo's picture

Wonder if Angelina Jolee will play her in the movie? May have to have a lip reduction.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 00:36 | 861025 infinity8
infinity8's picture

I find the death of Mr. Wheeler more interesting, indeed. Curiouser and curiouser. . .like the poison didn't get him so they had to do it the hard way. . . very strange. Damned surveillance tapes! Damned cell phones and computers!!

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 03:56 | 861305 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

As long as I have everyone's attention, does anyone know where to score some good bud in downtown Philly?

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:34 | 859679 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Thousands have it in them

Thousands are thinking of doing something like this

There only needs to be 1 who doesn't see the restrictions in it and has nothing to lose.


I personally don't approve the killing of another human being. Not even in war in which I feel the leaders should fight it out amongst themselves.


But anybody who does anything whatsoever must always think about the consequences.

And this is why, I always thought that anyday now a Bank CEO or CFO would get shot in the face which would have much more effect then killing a politician. A death politician is just a casualty of the policy that is set to destroy the people that got them in place.


She doesn't deserve all the attention in the media. A soldier that dies in a government war who fights for something for which he is told is the right thing to do deserve A LOT MORE ATTENTION then this woman who voted against the people and for her wallet.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:13 | 859825 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:09 | 860157 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Maybe this woman was told that what she votes is the right thing to vote.


Soldiers are grown up people who join the army by their own decisions. They have an option of turning down an order they do not agree with. Soldiers killed in action does not deserve more attention than this woman. They are the similar mould.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:24 | 860199 JohnG
JohnG's picture

"They have an option of turning down an order they do not agree with."

An ILLEGAL order.  They are then arrested and court martialed.  The officer giving the order MAY have the option to shoot the soldier as well.  It can get very sticky.

"Soldiers killed in action does not deserve more attention than this woman. They are the similar mould."

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE.  You show the guts to walk into a war zone and face getting killed before you write somthing that fucking ignorant.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 04:00 | 861307 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

As you reminded it, war zones are dangerous places. Keeping the course does not  go easily anywhere. Going on a warzone does not make it easier.

Warzones reveal people and some people can grow displeased with what they discover about themselves and some others. People often like to depict themselves as they are not. War zones and more generally war times are pitiless to them.

During war times, you are generally left alone, confronted with what you are, as you are to deal with situations requiring to put your life on line. You can find comfort in extreme group life, offered by the military, while merging with the group and renegating on your individuality. All of this resulting from decisions. 

Dont go on warzones if you can not cope with the decisions you might be led to take.

As much as you seem to dislike it, the option of turning down an order exists. Pushing up the possible consequences is simply side tracking. Choices always come with consequences. And on warzones, the consequences can be lethal.

A society like the US offers many other options than soldiering.  

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:34 | 860870 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

Don't you have something better to do with your time, like shoving your fingers up your ass?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:19 | 859331 bunkermeatheadp...
bunkermeatheadprogeny's picture

I was hoping 2011 would be the year of lone assasins.

She voted for TARP, enough said.

I wonder how many anonymous money orders will be mailed to his attorney.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:33 | 859392 rocker
rocker's picture

So, Sharon Angle and Sara Palin would be proud of shooter exercising Second Amendment. 

Are you saying to shoot all who voted for TARP under the Second Amendment?  Where's McCain?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:42 | 859728 bunkermeatheadp...
bunkermeatheadprogeny's picture

As for McCain, to quote Palin, "lock n load"

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 20:36 | 862656 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Its not clear what you are saying. 

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:56 | 860103 Eric Cartman
Eric Cartman's picture

That would be nice. 

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:56 | 859396 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

Do some research. Check out , gives the list of political contributors. Big money from Raytheon, Boeing, and Lockheed Martin. Voted for the 2008 bailout and for Obamacare. 


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:33 | 859651 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

"She voted for TARP, enough said."


Most of Congress voted for TARP -- Democrats and Republicans alike.


People have called for pitchforks, and I think most all of the politicos should be tarred & feathered and run out of DC at the end of a pitchfork, BUT . . . this is a bit much.


If we can't extend the civil right of a trial in front of a jury of peers to even the most despised among us, what does that say about us?


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:47 | 859760 bunkermeatheadp...
bunkermeatheadprogeny's picture

When money and power usurps democracy and the judiciary, violence of the masses will ultimately usurp money and power. This cylce has been repeating itself for centuries.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:14 | 859901 digitalhermit
digitalhermit's picture

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent change inevitable"

-John F Kennedy

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:22 | 859939 malikai
malikai's picture


Kennedy was too smart for his own good.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:58 | 860111 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

He may have been a philanderer and worse, but sadly our generation was robbed of a true leader of the people. May the fukks who did it be revisited in spades.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:58 | 860117 Eric Cartman
Eric Cartman's picture

Kennedy lived a good life. He was smart, had money and got a lot of tail. 

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:35 | 860231 rocker
rocker's picture

Kennedy was killed because he went against the banking cartel we call the FED. He wanted to end it. Sound familiar ?

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 20:40 | 862673 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Excellent... Kennedy was too smart and too independent for the elites.


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 21:17 | 860526 merehuman
merehuman's picture

tar, feathers and pitchforks will never happen. Being a wordsmith of empty phrases will not pull  the neccessary trigger. We are all sitting on our hands ,watching our own distruction. If this is too much for you, then you will not regain your freedom

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 00:57 | 861065 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Yes, and you can expect what happened to them to happen to us if we do the same...

Are we prepared to take the casualties?  I am not so sure about that.  We are not made of the "right stuff".  Those people grew up in war, knew war... we did not and do not.

Having a gun does not make you a soldier.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 07:59 | 861483 bunkermeatheadp...
bunkermeatheadprogeny's picture

We've been at war for the last decade.

Everyone has the right stuff, given the right conditions.

Napoleon said that revolution is just 3 meals away.

I do not believe that an organized resistance would be effective, given the advancements in surveilance technology. 

It will be lone gunmen after loan gunmen that would be able to hit and run.

Remember how long the DC shooter were able to continue before they finally got caught?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:43 | 860879 TheGreatPonzi
TheGreatPonzi's picture


The bitch saw it coming

I don't defend violence, and myself I wouldn't be able to morally kill a woman in cold blood. But voting for TARP means being a corrupt bastard. Some people have nothing to lose, the shooter was one of them.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:24 | 861109 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture


The bitch saw it coming

I don't defend violence, and myself I wouldn't be able to morally kill a woman in cold blood. But...

You're a disingenuous piece of shit.  Enough said

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:27 | 861117 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Wow, 2 junks in 30 seconds means there are clear and present troll gangs working the threads at this time people...

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:32 | 861125 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Working in pairs apparently

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 04:02 | 861310 lo574
lo574's picture

Are you serious?  You're a jacka**, pure and simple

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 09:19 | 861561 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

You are a horrible fucking troll and an appalling human being.

On another site was the comment "go to ZH to see Jareds in the making".

Fuck you very much. 

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 00:31 | 861013 myshadow
myshadow's picture

fuck you

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:48 | 859460 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture




It's the beginning of a political spin storm where all sides try to gain small advantage. It's the beginning of lies and propaganda and irrational, who knows maybe intentional by some who bided their time, acts and laws.



[the plane has crashed, leaving Winifred, Stanley, and Connie alone at night in the rain with an "ill" William Sherman]
Stanley Motss: This is nothing! Piece of cake! Producing is being a samurai warrior. They pay you day in, day out for years so that one day when called upon, you can respond, your training at its peak, and save the day!
[all notice a mini TV in the wreckage, playing the opposition's commercial demanding that they produce Schumann]
Winifred Ames: [Winifred takes the TV from Connie and throws it down to the ground] Fuck you!
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: Leave it alone! What did television ever do to you?
Winifred Ames: It destroyed the electoral process!



Secretary of State: We were thinking, what could be a bigger threat than aliens invading from space?
General Panzer: Ooh boy! Scare the shit out of everyone. Even me, sir!
U.S. President: Jesus, is this the best you could come up with? What about, ya know, international terrorism?
General Panzer: Well, sir, we're not going to re-open missile factories just to fight some creeps running around in exploding rental cars, are we, sir?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:48 | 858911 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Stick to watching Jon Stewart.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:08 | 858992 midtowng
midtowng's picture

I will, but you obviously missed my point.

It might very well be the start of something, but what that something is might be far different than what you think.

For instance, this might be the start of the killing of politicians, but it might only be the members of one party, which would be the worst outcome.

More likely, this might be the start of a crack down on domestic "terrorists" and political dissent.

Or it might be something entirely else. Just saying this might be the start of something is too vague to be of any use.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:28 | 859093 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

certainly isn't the start of "lone" men with guns shooting up crowds of people.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:02 | 859242 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Maybe it's the start of American becoming more like Pakistan, where politicians get attacked every other week.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:05 | 859253 Thomas
Thomas's picture

It might be the start of something we are familiar with to an unfamiliar extent. 

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:06 | 859262 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

Looks like it. There is Taliban everywhere.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:44 | 859449 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

We are becoming so politically and culturally polarized, it is more like the Balkanization of America.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:48 | 859761 LiquidBrick
LiquidBrick's picture


Yep! And the deterioration of 100% of the US Dollar since 1913 by those who caused invisible taxation of all goods/services is the primary and invisible cause for the inability for both Dem and Rep to see that blaming the other side for (fill in the blank) problems is the WRONG TARGET.

Unless and until we get rid of the FED, the IRS, FHA and every other entitlement program the producers will not go back to work and the parasites, the lawyers, the bankers will just continue to canibalize themselves into extinction - the hard way.

Such is the case with Bruce Baldinger, esq - lawyer from NJ who is about to get disbarred in all 3 states he is licensed in (see

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 21:46 | 860611 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

where politicians get attacked every other week.

++ Feels like the quickening.

Or they just go underground, I can quickly see this as an us vs. them.


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:09 | 858996 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by midtowng
on Sat, 01/08/2011 - 13:29


Beginning of what, exactly?


I Flagged You cause You're a fucking moron... why would someone start something... using the pretty face of a woman? Start with an ugly old guy, rapist who helped rob our Country blind!

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:19 | 859042 midtowng
midtowng's picture

This doesn't make any sense. What exactly are you mad at me about?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:23 | 859068 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Because we ALL KNOW that YOU KNOW what "the beginning" means; only intensifying the struggle of minds as to whether you are actually an intelligent poster or a Shitstick Troll.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:22 | 859069 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Don't mind him.  Erectile dysfunction tends to put guys on edge, and they snap for no reason at all.

In fact, that may be the reason behind today's massacre.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:37 | 859134 duncecap rack
duncecap rack's picture

I have not seen a comment by Chumbawamba for a long time. I am glad to see you back. I enjoy your comments.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:05 | 859528 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

duncecap rack

Dude CHUMBAWUMBA has not posted in a while.

CHUMBAWAMBA is a poser capitalizing on the name.

It's like buying a ROTEX.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 21:24 | 860549 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

you dont seem to control your grammar correctly..


CHUMBAWUMBA has not posted in a while



Therefore, CHUMBAWUMBA has not posted in a while



Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:47 | 860759 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Fucking brilliant. Transitive moronic Jared put through your very awake and conscious (not conscience) mind. Glad you are awake.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 02:12 | 861185 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Very confusing.

I need to roll another J.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 02:26 | 861209 Julia
Julia's picture

Go to his youtube videos Chumba and you will get it.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 04:01 | 861308 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Doucheboy, there has never been a chumbawumba.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:47 | 859178 midtowng
midtowng's picture

I'm not taking it personal. The fact that I've been junked 7 times (so far) for asking a simple clarification question only shows that some commenters here need a better way to vent some rage.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:53 | 859204 Cindy_Dies_In_T...
Cindy_Dies_In_The_End's picture

Its not rage, you're an mindless idiot. They can spoon feed you over on the MSM.


More fascism here we come. Watch for TSA to open 1000s of scanners at supermarkets in your honetown soon.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:13 | 859297 George the baby...
George the baby crusher's picture

Hate to say this, but you're the one coming off as a mindless idiot.  The dude asked a fucking question.  Someone was pissed off, shot a bunch of people.  Does this automatically mean this is the start of something?  Grow the fuck up asshole.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:19 | 860186 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I flagged you because you have had little to add to most threads, other than immature name-calling and bile. Piss off, permanently.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:31 | 860217 midtowng
midtowng's picture

I don't stoop to name-calling, period. So either you have me confused with someone else or you are just lying about me.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:07 | 860789 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Midtown, you have my post confused. Scroll up, it was directed at JW of FLA.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:57 | 860766 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Who died and made you the judge, asshole? STFU.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:59 | 860793 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

you tell 'em, Howard.... +10

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:00 | 860798 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Another member of the Brains Trust flys his colors.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 02:40 | 861242 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

At least I have a brain, Scarecrow.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:30 | 859107 Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

Right wing political violence.  It's all very predictible if you look at history which we are actively discouraged from doing in this country.  Next comes the law and order leader.  Return us to our former greatness and restore order.  Last time this happened Nixon was the law and order candidate. 

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:58 | 859228 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Right wing violence?

You know you are a fucking piece of shit, right?  If not, then let this be the official announcement that gets you to realize it:  You're a fucking piece of shit.


Because you politicized it.  Think the left wing never does anything violent?  Then you need to go look at history yourself.

The left vs. right bullshit that YOU, you FPOS are perpetuating is one of the major factors that has gotten us to this point.

So if you think about it, not only are you a FPOS, you are partially responsible.  How's it feel?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:07 | 859263 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

How many liberal militias have you heard about since the 1970s?  How many left wing attacks, assisinations, or bombings since in the last 40 years were done by the left?  How many cop killings by liberals?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:26 | 859352 teharr
teharr's picture

What about Elf?  Might I add that Martin Luther King Jr.  was a loyal republican until he was shot dead by a democrat. 

This will be the beginning of gun control.  You just can't have a police state if the people are armed.  Only free people are allowed to carry guns.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:06 | 859535 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

I hate to break this to you, but America has one of the most heavily armed populations in the world, yet we pretty much do have a police state.  I don't see people with guns having much effect on the corruption in this country, nor do I see a bunch of people with guns having any solutions.  If owning a bunch of automatic weapons is what you need to convince yourself you're "free", then good luck with that. 

The idea that the killing of Dr. King was about partisan politics is ridiculous, but nice try.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:07 | 860813 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Martin Luther King was a loyal Republican? What fucking planet are you from?

We know a great deal about Dr. King's public life from his many speeches, but we don’t know a lot about the civil rights icon’s voting record. (Indeed, he was not registered with a political party.) Was Martin Luther King, Jr. a Republican or a Democrat?

There are few definitive facts: Martin Luther King was certainly able to sway the vast majority of the black vote, and he was courteous and critical to both Republicans and Democrats. He never officially endorsed a party or a candidate.

The closest Dr. King came to an endorsement was his harsh criticism of Barry Goldwater in 1964 (thus, a nod toward Lyndon Johnson) – Goldwater had voted against the Civil Rights Act. However, Martin Luther King also spoke out against the Vietnam War, and thus, Johnson. It’s complex.

Dr. King’s political leanings were probably influenced a great deal by his father, Martin Luther King, Sr. – who was a noted Republican. He would have likely endorsed Richard Nixon for the 1960 election. But when the younger King was arrested during a sit-in, it was then-presidential candidate John F. Kennedy who ensured his release, as a favor to Martin Luther King, Sr. After his son was freed, King backed him in the election – and some 10 million votes were delivered for the Democrat. (As a side note, Kennedy was not known for being an overly enthusiastic supporter of civil rights.)

It seems that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was neither a Republican nor a Democrat.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:42 | 859438 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Any of a large number of black radical organizations.  Lots of cops are killed by those fed by liberals.  Probably most of them, actually.

The non aggression principle is in full effect here.  The government has aggressed against its citizens, and they are finally starting to rise up.  I expect more and more "lone wolf" type attacks before larger groups start forming.  I see a fairly clear path to civil war here. I make no moral judgements or arguments in either direction.  This is simply an observation of what is likely to happen.

I prefer non-violent resistence, or destruction from within.  Stop paying taxes.  Enter the underground economy.  Make things to sell there.  If possible, quit your job so you don't pay income taxes any more.  Collect unemployment if you can, along with any other money the government offers.  Eventually, the economic impact of these actions being taken by large numbers of people will force a collapse of the government, without the need to fire a shot.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:17 | 859578 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

This shows a clear path to civil war .. are you on med's ??? What if she made a remark against the troops or maybe he is mind fucked from the war ??? 

This is 1 fucking wacko. Most people are going to work on monday or school and have dreams of a nice family and life. Not this doomer/gold/civil war/hyper inflation crap ..... Its the same reason you cant sell a gold coin for $50 dollars most people are just living life and like the USA good or bad with all the ups and downs.



Mark Dice tries to sell $1100 one ounce gold coin for $50; no takers.


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:36 | 859693 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

Too bad stupidity weren't painful.  Fucking moron.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:02 | 859845 Yits and the Yimrum
Yits and the Yimrum's picture

Snailes; you need to stay in your dumbed down matrix.  go read the NYT and donate to the save the world foundation, and stop boring us with your statist moral judgements

the civil war is already here, now we need to find out if the people will fight back or just lay down and take it

this congress critter found out the hard way that they're engaged in a dangerous profession

they have to out on the streets preaching their statist utopian dreams, and someone is going to call bullshit on that and this is what is going to happen

if the pigs were smart, they would let a few states withdraw from the union and let the asshats enjoy their slavery in the other 48 states

then the pigs can come in declare war on the free states; as it is now it stands to be pretty bloody once the folks start to loose it

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:11 | 859885 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Can I get a link for some doomer news ....? Financial Armageddon, Leap 20 bullshit .... 

Can you send me a link to utopia ?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 21:45 | 860609 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

yeah, seriously smailes. you are a dumb mother fucker. just like that fag robot trader.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 21:58 | 860651 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Blow me. 

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:53 | 860778 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Spalding - I've seen that video of the guy trying to peddle the coin before. Absolutely absurd. First he has TV cameras, which immediately put people on guard. And then he tries to sell a $1000 coin for $50 in an aggressive, obnoxious fashion. The only think more absurd then the video is thinking it has any relevance. You can stick with your AIG, and we'll call you a paper-bug. 

After a reasoned and gentle explanation, I'm usually able to 'persuade' sole proprietor vendors, waitstaff, and others to accept silver coins (at somewhere just around melt value) as payment for goods and services. Most really appreciate the gesture and seem interested in the conversation. 

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:04 | 860662 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

HA! I think you finally got to the little runt, Mom. He's speaking semi-obscenities, not like little Sapulding.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:52 | 860082 tmosley
tmosley's picture

THIS is one wacko.  I guess you've forgotten about the fellow who flew a plane into the IRS building in Austin.  Or the guy who built the Killdozer.  Or any of the other hundreds or thousands of people who went nuts and started killing people because they were being oppressed, but didn't know by whom.

The oppression is ramping up.  So will the violence.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:43 | 860254 HitTheFan
HitTheFan's picture

Some thoughts here on the 'whom' doing the oppressing.


$1. Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin
$2. Lazard Brothers Banks of Paris
$3. Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy (Now Bank of America)
$4. Warburg Bank of Hamburg and Amsterdam
$5. Lehman Brothers of NY
$7. Goldman, Sachs of NY
$9. Hanover Trust of NY (William and David Rockefeller & Chase National Bank NY) are principal shareholders).

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 20:04 | 860318 tmosley
tmosley's picture

All of the above are powerless without government intervention.  Reduce the power and scope of the government, while creating/maintaining an atmosphere that is not conducive to any other form of aggressive force, then the above and any other oppressors are rendered impotent.

Naturally, ending the Fed is a part of the castration.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 20:19 | 860365 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Don't know if this cartoon explanation of the F E D and other matters of importance has made the rounds on ZH.  I highly recommend it.  If you read TF's blog you've probably seen that's where I lifted from.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:54 | 860918 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

youtube = google

google reports to govt.

notice the increasing time delay spinning wheels? Lots of info gathering going on.. LOTS of info.. know what I mean?

youtube is as bad for you as facebook is..



Math question: * plus zero equals -46


Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:39 | 861139 RoRoTrader
RoRoTrader's picture

 Remember the quote attributed to Mayer Rothschild over two hundred years ago that perfectly and simply states: 


Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:06 | 861081 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Isn't Lehman Bros. shut down...?  How can they still be a major shareholder of the Fed?

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 02:25 | 861204 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

i'm copying that list of ..... jews.

why kill that woman - its pathetic - why not Blankfiend??

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 21:03 | 860481 malikai
malikai's picture

Killdozer was the best of them all, by far. I only wish he hadn't have offed himself at the end. He would have made a great supreme court justice.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 09:08 | 861552 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Exactly.  It should be very obvious what's happening.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 21:03 | 860482 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Most of the large black radical organizations are lead by Islamic leaders. 

Using your logic Islamic leaders are liberal?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:06 | 860671 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Nice strawman there.  SOME Islamic leaders are liberal.

Islamistic extremists are, by and large, socialists.  One need look no further than Iran or the Taliban to see that.

The only real distinction between them and the "liberals" in our nation is that they see the gun in their own hands, which is pointed against the productive citizens of their lands.  Of course, the fact that our own liberals don't see it  doesn't stop them from using it just as fast as their theocratic cousins.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 20:10 | 860337 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Um.. the Unabomber you leftist scrub.. Pretty major one there.

I won't get started with PETA.

Don't get me started with all the "cop killing by libbies" comment. The cop killing libbies do aren't highly publicized or done by people you meet around your neighborhood.. unless you're a crackhead.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 20:54 | 860456 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

The Unabomber was a anarchist.

PETA, well, I don't think they have "intentaionally" murdered anyone. (I like my steak rare and my winter hats lined with fur...)

People to the left don't tend to be crackheads or cop killers...  Your typical extreme "libbie" would be Howard Zinn....  (now a cop or soldier might get killed (Vietnam) because of something he did, but he would not pull the trigger or be "directly" responsible for the act of violence).

Human communication are inherently flawed.  It is important to understand the definitions of the "labels" you use....  (ahhh never mind.....)

Your avatar is suits you well..... 


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:47 | 860757 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ted Kaczynski (The Unabomber)

"The leftist is oriented toward largescale collectivism. He emphasizes the duty of the individual to serve society and the duty of society to take care of the individual. He has a negative attitude toward individualism. He often takes a moralistic tone. He tends to be for gun control, for sex education and other psychologically "enlightened" educational methods, for planning, for affirmative action, for multiculturalism. He tends to identify with victims. He tends to be against competition and against violence, but he often finds excuses for those leftists who do commit violence. He is fond of using the common catch-phrases of the left like 'racism, ' 'sexism, ' 'homophobia, ' 'capitalism,' 'imperialism,' 'neocolonialism ' 'genocide,' 'social change,' 'social justice,' 'social responsibility.' Maybe the best diagnostic trait of the leftist is his tendency to sympathize with the following movements: feminism, gay rights, ethnic rights, disability rights, animal rights political correctness. Anyone who strongly sympathizes with ALL of these movements is almost certainly a leftist."

Whatever he was, he wasn't much on capitalism or leftists if you read his manifesto...being employed at Berkeley might have sent him right over the edge...LOL.

But to the larger point...I think we can say ALF, ELF and the other assorted eco-terrorists are more comfortable on the left than on the right...likewise marxist groups in the past like the Red Brigades, SLA, Black Panthers and the Weathermen.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:37 | 860862 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

You assholes are so bigoted and full of shit that you need to wake up. Maybe you have been conscious dreaming with Jared. Why don't you join him and pay for his defense. Poor shit didn't die today--awwwww--poor baby. He thought for sure he would be gunned down but a good samaritan (jesus fucking christ--was the good samaritan a conservative or a liberal?--MAYBE HE WAS A HUMAN FUCKING BEING!) 

All of you are captured, liberal and conservative alike. WAKE THE FUCK UP. Stop thinking you know anything because you don't. It's the truth. None of us knows anything, except those that are captured who think they do and come off with these attitudes that are all so high and mighty and self-righteous that they stink up the room.

I am not captured. I know one thing. I don't give a fuck who this idiot was--he killed people and he is a fucking asshole that deserves due process and all the pain in jail for killing a 9 year old child and others. I hope his Bubba is big and a mighty butt-fucker that gives him some anal bleeding.

None of us knows anything but many are here to read their confirmation biases. It's utter nonsense. I am conservative and liberal. I am an independent. I support no one in public office and guess what? All it proves it that we live in interesting times. The game (political, market, and international) is rigged and I'm not buying. 

Start observing with your mind clear of your name calling, rightie/leftie horseshit, and get off your high horses like there is someone to blame. We are all to blame. As Cheeky always ended things so perfectly, one word--fuckers.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:12 | 861092 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

You're a legend in your own mind.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:17 | 861099 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

You may be on to something. 

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:19 | 861103 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture


I like fucking.

It is impossible for people not to view things through their own bias.  People only see what they want to see.  I will agree with you however, the labels "liberal", "conservative", "left", "right" fail to accurately describe anyone.  People are driven by their experiences, their biases and their self interest.  Each of these combinations is unique which means no one will fit a category perfectly, not to mention that each of those categories is defined differently by each individual based on their own experiences, biases and self interests.

I will agree with you that all people who kill people need to be repeatedly sodomized by well endowed "Bubbas" but, unfortunately, that type of justice will not be done.  I feel that there is about to be a shooting war between the government and its citizens.  Yes, this is from my own experience, bias and self interest (though I have no interest in killing or war.  I have absolutely NO interest in becoming the slave or servant of a fascist government).

We live in interesting times indeed.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 06:17 | 861408 The Rock
The Rock's picture

Amen. The elite are laughing at us when we get involved in one of the thousands of distractions out there, a major one being this left/right bullshit.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 12:18 | 861870 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Hey Howie...good morning,


Having an anger management issue?...maybe this will help...fuck you!

That's the way to get the ball rolling huh?

Now, that your blood pressure has dropped back to normal levels...I freely admit I'm bigoted against communists & socialists. History speaks for itself on the consequences of giving over power from individuals to communism/socialism.

Why do think not one bankerhas gone to jail? Because this economic ass rape was engineered from the top. It's quite heavily regulated and lawful isn't it? I bet you thought FNM & FRE were splendid ideas back in the day...what is your opinion of Schumer, Fwank, Dodd, Rubin, Raines, Gorelick et al? And where were you when they decided to put Social Security taxes into general revenue?

So fuck you...I won't back other words kiss my ass...are we clear?...good.

Now, as far as "them" keeping us at each others throats so we don't lay hands on theirs, I absolutely agree. But if you think I'm going to meet you half way to socialist hell you've got another thing coming.

I've seen your half assed "liberal" wouldn't know a liberal if he pissed in your add jack shit to kumbayaism Howie.

Stretch for Cheeky all you want...his opinion is the same as anyone else's around's a fucking opinion.


Sun, 01/09/2011 - 12:41 | 861924 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Hey nmewn,

Good morning to you. Drink a few more cups of coffee and enjoy the day. I've noticed your rants too. Not impressed within the least. I'm glad we have decided to mutually dislike eachother.


Sun, 01/09/2011 - 13:17 | 861997 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Thank you. I've been up for awhile, done with coffee. Never been impressed with yours either as they are emotionally driven & fundamentally flawed. You have decided to dislike me which is fine. Sometimes when you meet someone you know in your gut that you will never get along with them. I never felt this way (personally) about you, but I can live with how you feel about me. No sweat.

Have a nice day.


Edit; I didn't junk you. There's a little troll that follows around behind me & junks anyone I post to. SeeYa

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 20:59 | 860467 superman07
superman07's picture

read a history book you idiot.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:28 | 860858 frankoo
frankoo's picture

       Let's see, how bout  WW11, Korea, Nam.                           

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:48 | 859456 midtowng
midtowng's picture


"Yeah," he told The Post. "The whole tea party."

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:56 | 859499 rocker
rocker's picture

You Bet, Sara Palin's pet project that she said all should embrace.

Sharon Angle, Glenn Beck, and Sara Palin all promote using the Second Amendment to achieve their political goals.  

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:16 | 859574 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Isn't that how we created this country - by killing people?  What other way is there to get what you want?  How else should the founding fathers have dealt with the British and the Indians?

How else are you going to get control of the situation/group/country unless you kill the required number of people?  Isn't that the American way?  Oh wait ... history tells us that is the way it always happens.

I'll get it started:  What is it?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:49 | 860900 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

You are part of the problem, not the solution. Maybe next Saturday you can be on the news as the latest assassin. Make sure you mention RichardP is your ZH name in your manifesto. 

It is what many people in cycle theory have been calling for; An uprising of ignorant assholes shooting off many rounds into innocent people. It would be anarchy from total whackjobs without a braincell to defend their actions other than to take a cue from a suicide bomber.

And that's what Jared Loughner thought he was going to be today. Today was supposed to be the last day of his life.

Ahh, the jokes on him, isn't it? And unintelligible moron that had a few ideas here and there (I thought the gold bugs would go wild in support of him and am glad I have not seen that here) interspersed with massive paranoia from a clinical standpoint. Watch the Youtubes. Oh yeah, transitive straw-men galore that made as much sense as his command of the English language which he thought he commanded.

Fuck me. And Fuck Him. What a fucking coward.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 00:51 | 861055 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

These "innocent" Congress people -- enumerate them please, along with all the various "crimes" they're NOT guilty of...

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:24 | 861112 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Well said.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:32 | 861126 Doomer_Marx
Doomer_Marx's picture

Six people died including a 9 year old girl. Very simple, he killed innocent people.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:19 | 861105 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Agree - Giffords' shooter is just another nutbag asshole.  Nothing else to it.   

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:19 | 861106 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

When you say 'calling for' do you mean predicting or advocating?  There's a huge difference.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 12:45 | 861937 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture


Sun, 01/09/2011 - 02:56 | 861267 RichardP
RichardP's picture

.. all promote using the Second Amendment to achieve their political goals.

My words were directed at this statement at the end of the post directly above mine.  My words were not in support of Jared but were an attempt to call attention to the real world.  Empires have always been built at the end of weapons, guns once they were invented.  History tells us that is the way it (empire building) always happens.

Most of us recoile at what Jared has done.  But empires have never been built by handing out daisies.  If empire tear-down and rebuilding is going to occur, it is going to occur at the end of lots of guns.  Someone else in this thread has made this same point.  If you really want tear-down and rebuilding, it is not going to be pretty.  And you won't be able to go home again.

You need to understand what you are really calling for when you call for tear-down and rebuild.


Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:42 | 860249 Larry Darrell
Larry Darrell's picture

I junked you for outright lying.  I don't like Glenn Beck, but I listen to his radio show on the way home from work sometimes.  Every time he talks about the big change he goes out of his way to specifically say that he doesn't support violence.

You're obviously just a troll. 

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:50 | 860279 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture


Wink. wink. Alligator tears.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:52 | 859476 midtowng
midtowng's picture

One of those killed was Judge John Roll.

Judge Roll in 2009, faced death threats after presiding over a $32 million civil-rights lawsuit. The lawsuit was filed by illegal immigrants against an Arizona rancher. After Judge Roll ruled the case would be certified, threats came from talk-radio shows which fueled controversy and spurred audiences into making threats against the judge.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 20:24 | 860377 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Very relevant here - A classic article by a US dissident, a guy who was forced to escape to Europe after US federal judges threatened to kill him ...

« Americans Murdering Their Judges, and the US Crisis of Judicial Corruption »

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:22 | 860196 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture


Left/Right bullshit. Divided you fall.

An antagonist political system under a unified ideal. Huhnnh?

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:14 | 860168 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

Right wing?

The Leftist Daily Kos actually put a “bulls eye” (sic) on Gabrielle Giffordsback in June of 2008

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:07 | 859268 rampancy777
rampancy777's picture

I guess the beginning of cloward pivens socialist type of violent upheaval? the bank hates the country they want us to descend into anarchy so as to take what we still have and ruin us. Your rights to life liberty and property are God given and self-evident. The constitution merely codifies these truths into a convient package. You have to believe in God to believe that your rights come from him and not yourself (a non authority) or the state (devoid of authority apart from what is recieved from God and the consent of the governed. Our enemy is not an economic system or political system, but human nature, and humans can not change human nature any more than a car can repair itself. I am not trying to be a preachy asshole, but if the source of what we claim as good is not self evident to us as individuals, then how will we ever maintain these good things for ourselves and our posterity. We need to be saved. We need to redouble our commitment to seeking God's plans and not our own. No one will have lasting success apart from God's success. Do not resist the hope presented to us. Do not expect any earthly leadership to protect us. Jesus himself was killed by the state authorities. The only peace is in knowing that although we are all here suffering for a time, God is. He has set the beginning and the end. He has sent his son to die and present us and our families with a hope and a future. The world will hate us, and divide what little we have among criminals, just as it has hated God and stolen from him always. There are a million what-ifs, and they are just sputtering and dust. But I know who I am, and my place, my rights and my future are secure. God has given me all things, and I am willing to give anything he requires, even my wealth and even my life. So I should not panic, because now my desire is God's desire and my hope is his hope. No doubt some of us will be put to the sword, and some of use will be enslaved, or worse. Let the world descend into its hell, as such things must come to pass. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. The Lord my hope and my salvation.

please dont be offended at my faith. i am not proposing to be better/smarter/faster than anyone. the thing i like most about ZH is the honesty, i just want to be honest too.



Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:52 | 859478 Chuck Yeager
Chuck Yeager's picture

I am pretty much an atheist as far as organized religion goes, but I side with you - this situartion is beyond redemption.  Higher powers than individual humans are firmly in control. 

The fact that we can be so different yet come here to discuss these meaningful topics in (mostly) civil discussion is the heart of ZH.  I love you all for being here.

(...Except those MF'ers who are getting inflammitory on this thread...F.U.!)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:36 | 859697 rampancy777
rampancy777's picture

i love zh'ers too. we have to remember the common ground and flame wars are despicable. there are those who would love to see us turn on eachother and lose whatever it is that is great here. flame wars and fingerpointing will only increase the number of victims today. we have to figure out as citizens what it is, besides prior financial successes that will keep us united.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 17:40 | 859708 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture


You say:

"I am not trying to be a preachy asshole..."

And THEN you say:

"We need to be saved."

"We need to redouble our commitment to seeking God's plans and not our own"


Now if that doesn't sound "preachy", I don't know what preachy is.

As far as you being an asshole or not, I don't know you personally.



Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:07 | 859873 rampancy777
rampancy777's picture

i admit it is preachy sounding. any message delivered is preachy by nature. i just do not believe any man or any group of men, you or me or anyone can fix this. we have a collective problem and zero effective/longterm potential solutions. i want what is good for your family and mine, i don't know how we will ever get it apart from the miraculous. since i want good, i know it must be. but where is it. i know i can't make it happen. I can hardly end a single day confident when my flaws are so apparant. i hope that if there are others who see an opportunity to improve the situation that they will do so, and maybe teach me so that i can do some good as well. thanks for being willing to not call me an asshole, even if it seems like i must be one when you hear me talk.

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 14:07 | 862099 Blankman
Blankman's picture

r777,  Any person with an open mind reading your thread will understand where you are coming from.  You sound as if you are at peace with yourself.  Allow no man to judge you for that.  I am working on the "peace with myself" portion of my life and it is not an easy road. 


I agree with you on your thought regarding organized religion.  I was confused for long time in my life as organized religion was forced upon me by my parents.  Problem was organized religion does not take to kindly to a bright child with a lot of questions.  I did not know where else to turn so the only other path I saw was violence, booze, drugs and hatred.  Took me a while before I could open up my heart again to "God".  God is a belief (almost an energy) you feel inside of you whether it be Jesus, Allah, Mohammed etc...  The writings of Angelus Silesius have helped immensely.  He believed we are all gods.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:05 | 859865 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

The bankster philosophy in Iraq is to destroy the country by getting the people to fight eachother... and destroy their own country.  We need to be very careful that this is not what will happen here.  We must NOT fight each other, but only the true enemy, the banksters and their political cronies.

I wonder what her stance on raising the debt ceiling was...

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 03:30 | 861290 Vesica Pisces
Vesica Pisces's picture

"I wonder what her stance on raising the debt ceiling was..."

Funny you should ask. She was one of the 37 Democrats who voted against raising the debt in 2010.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 16:33 | 859393 Michael
Michael's picture

Shit happens.

You still have a better chance of being killed by your bath tub.

Just trying to keep things in perspective.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:47 | 860067 darkaeye
darkaeye's picture

Exactly!  Good point.

Too many folks getting all politicaly accusing about this.  After watching the shooter's Youtube uploads it seems obvious to me the guy is just plain booby-shooby.  Psychotic raving lunatic!  Trying to put reason and rationality to his actions, despicable as they may be, would be like calling a lightning bolt a right-wing republican sympathizer if it struck down a democrat on a golf course.

Getting all partisan about this only nourishes the hate mongering and polarization that is itself a crippling force on America.

And thanks for the warning about my bath tub Michael.  I've had my suspicions that it is having clandestine meetings with my toilet.  They're up to something!  I just KNOW it!  

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:31 | 860216 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

...clandestine meetings with my toilet.

Oh, great, thanks.   Now I gotta be concerned about what's danglin' in there at least once a day -- on good days.

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 19:54 | 860290 Michael
Michael's picture

What do Bathtubs and Guns have in common?

They are both inanimate objects of death by association. 
