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XMRV vs HIV and long-term anti-retrovirals

Discussion in 'XMRV Testing, Treatment and Transmission' started by Sasha, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. Noreen Martin

    Noreen Martin

    Believe me, I tested HIV+ with full-blown AIDS!!!! By the time I got to the infectious disease doctor, I was half dead! My CD4's were 78 with a viral load greater than 100,000 (the limit of the machine). I also had numerous diseases to go along with the test results. My viral load has been as high as 3,200,000, on a different machine but without AIDS defining diseases.

    I knew nothing about AIDS, so I began to do research and the more that I did, many things were not adding up, so after a very long and hard ordeal, I decided that the AIDS rethinkers made much more sense in their arguments. So this is why I stopped the meds. Actually, after I rebuilt my health via, supplements, herbs, healthy diet and the meds, I was as good as new within several months. However, my old symptoms of chronic fatigue and the pain from fibromyalgia always came back. At various times, I could never understand how the HAART worked on these non-AIDS conditons, until I learned about the XMRV and its treatment. Everything started to make sense, as whenever I stopped the HAART, I never had what would be considered AIDS defining diseases then, only my old symptoms for years.

    To me, I certainly would place much more stock in the MXRV virus, because it causes so many problems and for me decades of issues. Believe me, I know what you folks are going through. Your quality of life is never good.
  2. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    There is no such thing as HIV- aids to have aids you must be HIV positive

    HAART is an extremely dangerous combination therapy without any potential to benefit a patient with a gammaretrovirus infection but a huge potential seriously harm anyone with damaged mitochondria.
  3. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    there is no evidence that HAART works at all for patients with ME but plenty of evidence of serious irreprable harm.You may be convinced it works but scientists are not.HIV causes AIDs wharever rethinkers(denyers or revisionists )say.it is proven scientific fact
    there is no scientific evidence for LDN either.Its claims re effects on the immune system have been shown to be false.It is a mood alterer and potentiaaly very addictive

    No one who is not qualified in medicine should recommend potentially lethal drugs to anyone. you have no idea that some aids drugs work better than others unless you have access to the relevant clinial studies
  4. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    If anyone is thinking of tryinga HAART regime here are the common side effects

    The following list is not complete, but includes several of the common adverse effects

    * Abdominal pain
    * Alopecia
    * Anemia
    * Asthenia
    * Diarrhea
    * Dizziness (Vertigo)
    * Fanconi syndrome
    * Flatulence
    * Headache
    * Hepatitis
    * Hyperbilirubinemia
    * Hypercholesterolemia (Dyslipidemia, Hyperlipidemia, high cholesterol)
    * Hyperpigmentation (of nails, palms, or soles)
    * Ingrown nails
    * Insomnia
    * Jaundice
    * Lipoatrophy / Lipodystrophy
    * Liver failure
    * Malaise
    * Mental confusion
    * Migraines
    * Mitochondrial toxicity
    * Mood swings
    * Myalgia
    * Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (chronic fatigue syndrome)
    * Myopathy
    * Nausea
    * Neutropenia (low number of white blood cells)
    * Nightmares
    * Oral ulcers
    * Pancreatitis
    * Paresthesia (numbness)
    * Peripheral neuropathy
    * Rash
    * Renal failure or insufficiency
    * Somnolence (drowsiness)
    * Stevens-Johnson syndrome
    * Change in taste perception
    * Vomiting
    * Xeroderma (dry skin)
    * Xerostomia (dry mouth)

    [edit] See also
  5. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    The following is about AIDS revisionists denyers re thinkers

    AIDS denialism is the view held by a loosely connected group of persons and organizations who deny that the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is the cause of acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS).[1] Some denialists reject the existence of HIV, while others accept that HIV exists but say that it is a harmless passenger virus and not the cause of AIDS. Insofar as denialists acknowledge AIDS as a real disease, they attribute it to some combination of recreational drug use, malnutrition, poor sanitation, and side effects of antiretroviral medication, rather than infection with HIV.

    The evidence that HIV causes AIDS is considered scientifically conclusive.[2][3] The scientific community rejects and ignores AIDS-denialist claims as based on faulty reasoning, cherry picking, and misrepresentation of mainly outdated scientific data.[4] With the rejection of these arguments by the scientific community, AIDS-denialist material is now spread mainly through the Internet.[5][6]

    Despite its lack of scientific acceptance, AIDS denialism has had significant political effects, especially in South Africa under the presidency of Thabo Mbeki. Scientists and physicians have raised alarm at the human cost of AIDS denialism, which discourages HIV-positive people from using proven treatments.[3][5][7][8][9][10] Public health researchers in South Africa and at Harvard University have independently investigated the effect of AIDS denialism. Their estimates attribute 330,000 to 340,000 AIDS deaths, along with 171,000 other HIV infections and 35,000 infant HIV infections, to the South African government's former embrace of AIDS denialism.[11][12]
  6. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

    Thanks for the info Gerwyn. Talk about false illness belief!!!!
  7. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    no kurt immune cells continually replicate albeit at a gentle pace.WBC,s are cells of the immune system so it makes perfect sense.She is not actually talking about treatment at all.The replication mechanisms of gammaretroviruses have been known for several years so no she is not speculating
  8. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    there have not been any credible attempts at validation
  9. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

  10. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

    The prostate does contain neuroendocrine cells. One of the prostate studies looked for possible XMRV binding sites in the host and found one in neuroendocrine cells that was in an area that coded for signalling between neuroendocrine cells (the paracrine mechanism).

  11. Hope123

    Hope123 Senior Member

    The confusion about "HIV- AIDS" is partly a semantic one.

    Some people take "AIDS" to mean "acquired immunodeficiency syndrome" and classify CFS/ME as "AIDS" because there have been studies showing immunodeficiencies like low natural killer cell activity, CD4 count, and immunoglobulins (overall IgG (not to be confused with viral IgG titers). It's thought to be "acquired" because many became ill as adults and after a flu-like illness. Others use the term to emphasize the seriousness of CFS for political/ advocacy reasons.

    The problem comes when CFS sufferers see "HIV- AIDS" and assume they will have the same fate as HIV+ AIDS. Certainly there are people who have CD4 counts as low as HIV+ folks (I personally fall into this category) but from conversing with a veteran CFS doc, yes, some CFS folks have opportunistic infections but not in the numbers or scale that HIV+ people do. (For example, pneumocystic carnii pneumonia or Kaposi's sarcoma have not been reported in CFS.) Another problem with presenting CFS as "HIV- AIDS" is that it confuses the public, researchers, etc.

    Though I agree with the immunodeficiency and acquired parts based on what I know, using the capitalized acronym "AIDS" confuses things and I would prefer the whole phrase uncapitalized instead
    - "acquired immunodeficiency syndrome." I also believe the tide is turning and that people do not need to resort to these types of methods to get others to recognize CFS should be taken seriously in its own right.

    Finally, it's early yet and we need more evidence about antiretrovirals but don't rule out antiretrovirals entirely based on toxicities you read or hear about on the internet. Instead take those questions and ask a knowlegeable doc when good trials come out. Realize that almost all drugs have long lists of toxicities. These must be put into context of what % of people develop those reactions, what characteristics put people at higher risk for a reaction, how serious the reaction was, and what the benefit might be for you individually.
  12. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    Xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus (XMRV) is a new human gammaretrovirus identified in prostate cancer tissue from patients homozygous for a reduced-activity variant of the antiviral enzyme RNase L. Neither a casual relationship between XMRV infection and prostate cancer nor a mechanism of tumorigenesis has been established. To determine the integration site preferences of XMRV and the potential risk of proviral insertional mutagenesis, we carried out a genome-wide analysis of viral integration sites in the prostate cell line DU145 after an acute XMRV infection and compared the integration site pattern of XMRV with those found for murine leukemia virus and two human retroviruses, human immunodeficiency virus type 1 and human T-cell leukemia virus type 1. Among all retroviruses analyzed, XMRV has the strongest preference for transcription start sites, CpG islands, DNase-hypersensitive sites, and gene-dense regions; all are features frequently associated with structurally open transcription regulatory regions of a chromosome. Analyses of XMRV integration sites in tissues from prostate cancer patients found a similar preference for the aforementioned chromosomal features. Additionally, XMRV integration sites in cancer tissues were associated with cancer breakpoints, common fragile sites, microRNA, and cancer-related genes, suggesting a selection process that favors certain chromosomal integration sites. In both acutely infected cells and cancer tissues, no common integration site was detected within or near proto-oncogenes or tumor suppressor genes. These results are consistent with a model in which XMRV may contribute to tumorigenicity via a paracrine mechanism.

    the word is may and paracrine is not neuroendocrine

    paracrine means the following

    Paracrine signaling is a form of cell signaling in which the target cell is near ("para" = near) the signal-releasing cell.

    This is the model the authors were referring to

    Role of nerve growth factor-like protein in the paracrine regulation of prostate growth

    D. Djakiew
    Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, Georgetown University School of Medicine, Washington, DC 20007.

    Prostate cancer is the most commonly diagnosed form of malignant neoplasia in men. Considerable evidence has accumulated suggesting that paracrine interactions between stromal cells and epithelial cells mediate, in part, the growth and development of the prostate. A nerve growth factor-like protein secreted by stromal cells has been implicated in the paracrine regulation of prostate epithelial tumor cell growth in vitro. This prostate-derived nerve growth factor-like protein differs from the known members of the neurotrophin family of proteins, and may represent a prostate-specific form of this family of gene products. Furthermore, corresponding nerve growth factor receptors have been localized to the epithelial cells of the human prostate in vivo, consistent with a role of the receptors and the adjacent nerve growth factor-like protein secreted by stromal cells, in the paracrine regulation of prostate growth and neoplasia.
  13. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    there is no HIV-aids
  14. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

    That is true, paracrine is not neuroendocrine. I wrote that original response some months ago, and just now re-read the relevant parts of the full article, I drew the wrong conclusion. Paracrine can be a signaling mechanism between close endocrine cells, and the prostate does contain endocrine cells. But I was making an inference this was between endocrine cells based on that study's mention of paracrine, but the study does not actually say that. There may have been something else I read at that time that supported the idea, there were several prostate studies exploring the binding sites, but I don't have a ref so will have to go with a retraction on that point.
  15. Knackered

    Knackered Guest

    You DID test possitive for HIV? You stopped taking medication because you dont think HIV causes AIDS? Bloody hell, If you don't continue taking your meds you'll die. Once you get AIDS with no medication you die after a couple of years.

    How long ago did you test possitive for HIV?


    I really hope you're practising safe sex, regardless of what you believe.
  16. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    The arguments of the AIDS "rethinkers" made sense to the South African Government too.They witheld HIV treatments and hundreds of thousands of people died as a result!
  17. Noreen Martin

    Noreen Martin

    Not really, I have been off my meds for up to 2 years will no AIDS defining diseases. Many others are doing it, it just doesn't make the news. No, most of us off the meds who are rethinkers know that it is not a sexual disease. In fact studies that have been don't prove that it is sexually transmitted. My husband has consistently tested HIV-. Remember, the test is an "antibody" test only.
  18. Knackered

    Knackered Guest

    If you really are HIV+ and you aren't taking your meds chances are you'll be dead in less than 10 years, your husband will follow soon after if you're having unprotected sex.

    How long have you had HIV?

    HIV doesn't have to be a sexual disease, you can get HIV through many other transmission routes.

    Here's something for you noreen:

    In 2007, aidstruth.org, a website run by HIV researchers to counter denialist claims, published a partial list of AIDS denialists who had died of AIDS-related causes. For example, the magazine Continuum, which consistently denied the existence of HIV/AIDS, shut down when its editors all died of AIDS-related causes. In every case, the AIDS denialist community attributed the deaths to unknown causes, secret drug use, or stress rather than HIV/AIDS. Similarly, several HIV-positive former dissidents have reported being ostracized by the AIDS-denialist community after they developed AIDS and decided to pursue effective antiretroviral treatment.
  19. Noreen Martin

    Noreen Martin

    Currently, not on the HAART.
  20. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    the aids dianostic test is not an antibody only test

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