

Defending the Section Two Committee


I couldn’t even keep up yesterday with the amount of posts that the readers were making regarding the seeding process and how it went down.  I decided to take the time to read all of them and comment only sparingly as I waited for last night’s Live Webchat, which continued an onslaught of much of the same criticism.

Now that the dust has settled and everyone has had a day to vent, I think it is important that we take a minute to understand some excellent points that some people have made and, not to take away from the detractors, congratulate the efforts made by the committee and the painstaking way they went about their business.

First of all, these men are mostly all educators.  They take time off from their daily trappings to get together and pour through tons of information and politicking to try and make things as fair and equitable as things can be.  I personally consider myself a friend of several of the 9 men with voting power in that room the other day, and I hope they feel the same about me.  I did not have the pedigree that many of those people had as being a former star player or anything, but the coaches welcomed me into the fraternity and taught me alot about how to run a quality program and how to just simply carry yourself.

This past Wednesday, these men converged on a room and had to undertake a thankless and unappreciated task and do it to the best of their abilities.  Do you think the committee wants to make decisions that they know will get them blasted on a forum, that frankly, most of you can hide behind in cowardly, anonymous fashion?

Of course, not.

These men took the overall record of the teams, plugged it into the system laid out, factored in strengths of schedule, common opponents, recent victories and all of things necessary and released a bracket they felt was the fairest for all involved.

I personally have gone on record in the last 24 hours only making one criticism of their work, and that is the Academy seeding.  I only criticize it because I do not think they had any basis to drop them on the Suburban side.  If its only because there weren’t enough teams on the Suburban, there simply has to be another way.  Perhaps Amsterdam should have moved over due to overwhelmingly smaller enrollment than the other Big 10 publics.  I am not saying I am a wizard who has all the answers, I am saying specifically that if Albany Academy was placed on the Big 10 side, and given the #3 seed, would we even be having this argument right now?  They defeated Albany and Schenectady in recent weeks.  There was no point of comparison with the Suburban so placing them in there was bound to make things sour and people very touchy, rightfully so.

I am a former assistant coach for Brian Fruscio, his abilities as a coach are something I admire.  The way he handles everything from his attention to detail to his game and practice planning is something most coaches would admire if they knew him like I do.  This is not an attack on him or his program, this argument is just my personal feelings on the subject.  Academy should have been placed with the other privates and the publics they competed against to have some basis of comparison.  Using their performance in 6 games, was not enough.

The rest of the insults that have been slung around the past few days are tougher to argue.  I am one of those people who believe NDBG, Mechanicville, Rensselaer, Voorheesville and Sharon Springs’ strength of schedule should be factored.  I think it was in Gibbons, Rensselaer, VV and Sharon’s cases to a large degree and I am not sure about Mechanicville’s.  For the most part, the rest of everything fell in line very fairly and I cannot argue with really any of it.

I hope we all remember these are people and they do their best in seeding these things.  Sure, they are 9 men, human beings, that can make a mistake but I highly doubt there is anyone or anything out there that could do a better job factoring everything they have to factor.  If you want to dehumanize things to take away the personal connections to some of the classes and your perceived favoritism, you could use a computer, but even in college football that is only half of the equation.

I hope today we can turn our thoughts to the games and remember these are kids that are about to undertake the greatest experience of their young lives to date and in some cases, these kidsmay never experience anything like this again.  Its time to get past the seeding complaints and move on….

Categories: General
Eric Medved

59 Responses

  1. steve says:

    This year was much worst than in the past. That’s why everyone is furious.

  2. ds says:

    great points Eric, but I can say without any hesitation, I would NEVER hide behind this blog. IF I was in front of the selection committee, I’d have no problem talking respectfully with any of them. With that said, any rational person who thinks that a 9-9 team deserves the seed that they got regardless of ANY factor used, has to look in the mirror. Everyone keeps saying they went 5-1 against Section II teams, fine, but none of those games were against the teams they put below them. Bethlehem, co-division champion, got the toughest draw,IMO, in the first round. I won’t type another post about it but wanted to say my peace. I am 47 years old, have been around Section II all my life and can’t say how disappointed I am….thanks

  3. baller says:

    I agree that the first two days were a bit emotional as everyone gets excited about their favorite team’s seeding and arguing about the process is part of what makes it fun. I agree with you on Academy. I can see the Big 10 move, but we knew the #s weren’t going to be the same on the Suburban so it was easier. Just seemed like there was a natural gap between the Suburban top three teams and everyone else.

    You know what the funny part to me is, however, is that most people’s arguments all along has been Academy’s strength of schedule. In the end, when you only factor in 6 games and then multiply it by 3, they actually had one of the easiest schedules evaluated for seeding. Three games against a Class BB school, a 3-seed Class A school (Mohon higher), a 5-13 team, and then a 3 and 4 seed. They didn’t have to play a Shen twice, or a CBA, Bethlehem, or Troy twice. Unlike Bethlehem, Shaker, but even Schenectady, and Albany, the schedule taken into consideration was actually much weaker. Weird stuff.

  4. wazzup says:

    I’m glad you agree Mechanicville got ripped off. Like you said, I am not sure what happened to Mechanicville

  5. christian says:

    I’ve been following sectional seedings since 1997 and have been extremely critical in the past, but I have to say that comparatively, this is actually one of their better years. I only see a handful of changes (Sharon Springs, Watervliet, Cohoes, Mechanicville and Fonda) and only Cohoes I would move more than one spot up. I think the AA system is ridiculous and always has been. There are enough out of conference games that an adequate judgement can be made and the two conferences don’t even contain all the teams that qualify for the tournament as it is.

  6. Jim Spickler says:

    Everyone keeps saying Mechanicville got ripped off, let’s analyze their record. They went 8-10, with one victory over a team with a winning record – Fonda (10-8). The teams they beat had a combined record of 33-73. They went 4-9 in their league, beating Ravena(0-13) twice and Voorheesville(1-12)for 3 of the wins. They lost to Lansingburgh by 28 and 17, Cocoes by 21 and 11, Schalmont by 18, and Watervliet by 13. This is a record worthy of a higher seed?

  7. small school hoops says:

    I have asked this question for two days without much response. Maybe I’m wrong but I’m going to ask Eric and everyone one more time.


    I’m sure what Eric states is true that “they take time off from their daily trappings” but it is also true that some of them have something to gain. There has to be and should be a better way.

  8. Ed Bemiss says:

    Small School hoops, I see you asked the question a couple times. However you can’t ask the question in my opinion, without giving a solution.

    Here’s a hint there isn’t one, which I guess is why you haven’t posted one. You are never going to find an independent group to seed these teams, NEVER. Coaches and administrators from Section 2 will always seed Section 2. It’s the same in every region in the country. It’s impossible to get independent educated opinions on these teams from an outside group.

    They are the only people other than local sports writers that can make an “educated” opinion on most of these teams. Plus when’s the last time a local sports writer ever had any other opinion than every school, coach or kid is great? They would seed every team number 1 afraid of offending anyone, so that wouldn’t work.

    The committee has a guideline, they have first person knowledge, and they make a decision. Give them some credit. The committee that seeds these teams has a tough job and in my opinion they get it right the majority of the time.

    I just don’t believe there is a “system” you should or could use every year, due to the fact that the majority of the leagues have teams that are in different classifications. Strength of schedule is better in my opinion than a Won/Loss record when comparing teams from the same class but in different leagues. I would have done the same thing with Albany Academy as the committee did. Their 9 wins are far less than Bethlehem’s but their strength of schedule is ridiculously tougher. That’s just one example.

    There are other examples where I think the committee just went by Won/loss record and got the seeds totally wrong. In Class C I have Greenwich as the best team, and Class BB I have 3-4 teams better than #1 S. Christian. Greenwich is seed # 4, and other potential winners in class BB are seeded 6,8,2,4 &10. Maybe the committee made the right decision seeding Argyle and Schenectady Christian #1 in these classes based on W/L record. I don’t think so. We’ll find out.

    I think the committee has a tough job, BUT I also think using won/loss record for rankings and seeding without taking into account a strong strength of schedule component will give you inaccurate results over time. I like the fact that they used that component to seed Albany Academy # 2, but I don’t like that they only went by W/L records in a few of the other classes.

    There needs to be a happy medium. I don’t think the committee will ever be progressive thinking enough to seed teams with lower won/loss records consistently because of the fallout. (Ex: A. Academy) It just doesn’t make sense to the average fan that thinks 17-1 and a league title in a week league is better than 12-6 team in a tougher league.

    Here’s what it comes down to…if your team is any good they’ll win. It doesn’t matter if they have to play a tough team round 1, the semi finals or final. Teams have played 18 games by now and they should be prepared for any obstacle from any opponent or a sectional seeding committee. Just my 2 cents.

  9. wazzup says:

    Jim Splickler,

    They are only comparing it against Stillwater’s record, which is a joke and only win against a winning record is a class C school. That’s all. Stillwater pulled a lot of strings to get ahead of them. They’re not looking for the 2 seed, just the 6 or a bad Stillwater team.

  10. Alumni says:

    CCHS pulls off the biggest upset in Section 2 history Tuesday night ..Down goes the green machine !!!!!!..See you at Ravenswood after the game !!!!!!! CCHS by 10

  11. christian says:

    Maybe they should realign the leagues so they are more even in terms of classifications. I’m glad to see Fonda finally got out of the WAC, Spa Catholic and Schenectady Christian should do the same. BB schools have no business in that league. I’d be happy to do it for them if they asked.

  12. Ram says:

    I think the Rensselaer Rams should have been ranked higher. They have a over .500 record and play all B teams. The only C team they play is Albany Academy which they matched up well against, better than what the score says.

  13. I BE BALLIN says:

    Concerning class AA seeding. A “good” seed presumably increases your chance to survive and play another day. In the end it only postpones the inevitable as all roads lead to Airline Drive and the Brothers of CBA.

  14. chvlfan says:

    How can you look at Sharon Springs’ strength of schedule when they play in a league with higher class teams …. The CHVL is made up of Ds and Waterford its not there fault its like that … i dont think you can look at strength of schedule for small school teams it just doesnt make sense

  15. wow says:

    # 13 you sound a little too over- confident.CBA has to make it to the end of the road too.

  16. Bob says:

    Regarding Class AA….couldn’t the committee just do away with Suburban or Big 10 and try to rank all the teams from 1 to 12 then simply set up brackets accordingly (1 vs 12, 2 vs 11, etc.). Then W-L records, SOS and other variables can be taken into account.

  17. I Dont Be Balllin no where says:

    # 13 is right, all the seeding is somewhat not needed, as all roads lead to the defending and soon to be repeating state champs CBA, Cba will win it all again, but will also be good down the road as freshman, jv and varsity all finished tied or in the lead in the big 10s congrads to the brothers on a great season so far and lets hope they play again until march

  18. Section 2 says:


    Spa Catholic has applied multiple times to the Wassaren and the Foothills and been denied each time. I do not know about Schenectady Christian.

  19. Mark Smith says:

    Eric I know this is off topic but i was wondering where i could find the all star lists for the wasaren league boys this year?

  20. bea says:

    when are we going to throw the private schools out of the tourney.

  21. Marty says:

    One thing regarding Albany Academy that I notice that no one else has mentioned is this. The problems with seeding Academy in AA is because of the Section 2 Basketball committee in the first place. They were the ones that decided to bump Albany Academy up to AA’s in the first place. Because of this, Academy was no longer allowed to compete in the Colonial Council and no other league was willing to take them as a basketball only school. Since they have no league, they have no choice to play an independent schedule and with basketball teams in New York forced to drop 2 non-league games a year they had to go outside of Section 2 to find enough games.
    By bumping Academy up to Class AA, Section 2 made their bed and now they have to lie in it every year when they try to figure out where to seed them. This year Academy probably got a favorable seed, previous years they’ve gotten the short end of the stick. It’s going to happen every year so we might as well get used to it.

  22. DELO says:

    Whenever we play non-league games our coach does the right thing win or lose. He plays everybody figuring League Play = Sectional 2 Seeding.

  23. Wacfannorth says:

    During your chat the other night, you commented on Schuylerville as if they received two byes, not one.

    Eric Medved:
    Schuylerville is big and when Shane Lyon is healthy, he and Evan Denisoff form a pretty lethal wing tandem to go with Foote in the middle. I think they are dangerous for Schenectady Christian because their zone is pretty hard to solve. The other side of the bracket is wide open too.

    Eric Medved:
    I saw Christian play and was baffled by them somewhat. They have 5 kids who can score in the lineup so they are for real, plus their system is sound and their coach gets a lot out of them and they play under control. If they do not hold the score down a little better, they will not defeat Schuylerville

    My question is: Is Spa Catholic down players or something since they beat Fort Plain? Spa Catholic won at Fort Plain and blew out Stillwater, who Schuylerville beat by three points.
    Just wondering what is up? I admit I am a WAC guy, but Spa has a D2 player in Hobbins(Flagler U) and I heard Stevens (Oswego) just got a D3 as well. They press the heck out of you, ask Fort Plain. Seems they are overlooked or maybe they are down players?

  24. BGAlum says:

    Eric, HVCC Men’s Basketball did not make playoffs this year? Don’t know if you had the answer to that? There a good team from what I saw Tuesday against Schnectady CC and in the gazette.

  25. Know more says:

    The colonial is flat out better than the wasaren. The lilac connection to avoid the council is a travesty. Putting mville and watervliet head up in 2nd rd. If mville wins is wrong. still water doesn’t even play b schools. Maybe hoosic falls can finally win something with all this corruption. But it hasn’t helped in the past. get a true committee instead of having the 1 seed, 6 seed and a patroon conference coach set seeds. Oh, which are wasaren teams. Out…

  26. wac fan says:

    wac fan north,
    Spa has everybody, they are just small. I also agree they are quick and play good man defense. Ft Plain did not play their best game at home against spa, credit to spa, but if you remember they did beat spa at their place. Also, Spa played Christian and got it handed to them, on the other hand FT plain beat them with a team effort. Remember spa moves up to a BB for sectionals, its a big jump from the schools they have been playing and it is factored in. I would also like to ask Christian, since he has so much pull with the area leagues, if you get spa and SC out of the WAC, will you look to replace them with other teams or are you just looking at one side of things and trying to be self serving. The WAC needs its teams as well…….

  27. christian says:

    Section 2,
    I did not know that. As a Wasaren League alum, I think they should accept it. The league would be better. They should take Mechanicville too. Then Schenectady Christian could go to the Colonial. I guarantee they don’t go 17-1.

  28. bballfan says:

    Private schools upstate should have their own league and their own sectionals. Just like down in New York, the psal champs compete with the nysphsaa champs.

  29. Eric Medved says:

    BGAlum: This situation I cannot comment too much on because I applied for that job and didn’t even get an interview despite my experience as a college and high school coach. I like Ken Dagostino Jr. and I am sure that he will get things going there or somewhere else and do well. For now this program is just two years removed from the golden era of Andre Cook and they say it is tough to follow a legend. I really wanted to be the man to succeed him there but I knew it was going to be tough. I think that the key to winning at HVCC is to get outstanding area talent and not fall victim to the out-of-towners who come in. This year’s HVCC team had kids fail off, quit and city kids come up and be on and off the roster. That said, it is more difficult for Coach Dagostino now than year’s past with Andre because there wasn’t a Sage College taking many of the top area kids. Plus Sage has Phys Ed, which makes them very attractive for prospective student-athletes. I think things will turn around there but I understand your disappointment in that HVCC has fallen off the map. It will get better.

  30. wac fan says:

    Have you seen Schenectady Christian this year, or are you just talking, it is sounding more and more like you don’t have a clue about other leagues or teams, (just your own), and just go by your own assumptions. They are 4th in the state for a reason my friend, it is not baseless…They got their wake up call against Ft Plain, they will win the BB’s… and by the way a loss to Ft Plain this year is nothing to hang your head about, they are solid!!!!