In response to:

My Papers? No Thank You

ca7 Wrote: Apr 27, 2012 2:41 PM
"In border states, the vast majority of hispanics are legal residents, so it's likely that just using appearance is a waste of time." So, if the vast majority of Hispanics are legal residents or citizens and the legal citizens are not required to carry a national ID showing their citizenship, how do you suppose the police will differentiate between Hispanic citizens without papers and illegal Hispanic immigrants without papers? That is why this law in Arizona is unworkable.
Michael1364 Wrote: Apr 27, 2012 3:42 PM
What a nimrod Try to remember in your tiny brain that this law only applies to people who have already been stooped for a reason by the law officers. It wouldn't bother me to show my id to make sure we get rid of all of these Mexican gangs in my city.
ca7 Wrote: Apr 27, 2012 4:42 PM
It's like talking to a brick wall with some of you. Yes, they have to have a reason to be stopped. Once they stop you and they suspect you are an illegal immigrant, they can ask you for your papers. The problem is that if you are a citizen you don't have to carry any papers and therefore have no papers on you to prove you are legal. What happens then? Are legal citizens arrested until they prove citizenship? That's ridiculous. You can either require everyone to carry an ID that proves you are legal or this law is unworkable from a practical point of view. One can believe this law in AZ is unworkable and/or unconstitutional and still believe AZ has the right to deal with illegal immigration in some way. This law is not the way.
nawlins72 Wrote: Apr 27, 2012 5:49 PM

ShorterMichael: "It wouldn't bother me to give up more freedom to the State, so long as they go after those Mezicans I don't like."
Merry Colin in Arizona Wrote: Apr 28, 2012 11:58 PM
I don't need "papers"; I need my DL if I'm in a vehicle and I also need proof of insurance and registration. Are we "discriminating" against cars?
Merry Colin in Arizona Wrote: Apr 27, 2012 2:51 PM
No ---- AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN! Do you people not know how to READ? You CANNOT get a driver license in AZ unless you are a LEGAL citizen. The cops will know immediately when you give your driver license which is required of ALL drivers. Nothing new here people. So many have opinions about something they know little or nothing about!
ca7 Wrote: Apr 27, 2012 3:19 PM
Please knock it off with the faux outrage.

1. You do realize that people with driver licenses from other places can drive in Arizona, right? An AZ driver license is NOT required to drive in Arizona.

2. You don't have to be a citizen to get an AZ driver license, though you have to be at least a legal immigrant.

3. What if you're not the driver of the car but they suspect you? If you are a citizen but not driving a car you don't need a drivers license. What if the lawful stop is not of a person in a car but a pedestrian? From the law:

"Requires law enforcement, in making a lawful stop, detention, or arrest for another law, to make a reasonable attempt to determine the person's immigration status where reasonable suspicion exists..."
ca7 Wrote: Apr 27, 2012 3:25 PM
Regarding SB 1070:

"A person is presumed to be lawfully present if the person provides to law enforcement (1) a valid Arizona driver's license or nonoperating identification license, (2) a valid tribal identification, or (3) a valid United States, state, or local government-issued identification that requires lawful presence before issuance."

So how should the police deal with SB 1070 in this circumstance: I'm a hispanic U.S. citizen walking down the street and I'm stopped by the police for jaywalking and they ask me for identification that I'm not legally required to carry so I'm not carrying any of the 3 types of documents outlined above. Should they assume I'm an illegal immigrant? Why?
Michael1364 Wrote: Apr 27, 2012 3:46 PM
Stop with the stupdity please. Arizona is a sovereign state. It has the legal obligation to protect its borders. If you don't like the law, vote the lawmakers out. If you don't live there, or can't vote them out if you do live there MOVE
Merry Colin in Arizona Wrote: Apr 28, 2012 11:56 PM
Faux outrage? Whaddaya nuts?

1) see below--- any driver license or govt issued ID will do
2) Yes, you must be a LEGAL citizen to get a DL. Never said different; a person with a green card can get a DL because he is a defacto citizen who must use the roads.
3) SCOTUS just gave EVERY PD in the US to demand ID from everyone in a vehicle upon a lawful stop. We can debate "lawful" stops but that has nothing to do with SB1070. Go complain to SCOTUS---AZ ain't your problem.

With the Supreme Court taking up Arizona's "show me your papers" immigration law, we're once again thrust into a useful debate over the role of the government and the obligations of the citizen -- and non-citizen. Rather than come at it from the usual angle, I thought I'd try something different.

If there were one thing I could impress upon people about the nature of the state, it's that governments by their very nature want to make their citizens "legible."

I borrow that word from James C. Scott, whose book "Seeing Like a State" left a lasting impression on me. Scott...