4-wheelers, nature-lovers collide in woods


Mike and Marcy show evidence of ATVs on trails in the woods behind their home on Friday, April 5, 2013 in Rensselaer, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

From Sunday’s column:


So when they moved to one of the new neighborhoods on the north edge of Rensselaer, it was the wooded landscape behind their home that made the location attractive. That land, more than 12,000-acres owned by the Rensselaer Technology Park, stretches almost without development along the riverfront to Troy’s southern border.

But in recent years, Mike and Marcy have found their neighborhood plagued by a growing menace that dims the appeal of living near the woods. This illegal menace, they say, replaces quiet with noise late into the night, churns solid ground into mud, and sometimes marks its presence with trail-side garbage.

As you may have guessed, we’re talking about all-terrain vehicles.

You can read the full column here.


Categories: Other
Tim Neff

45 Responses

  1. ann says:

    I’d be upset if I were Mike and Marcy too. 4-wheelers are a lot of fun-on your own property!!

  2. Mike says:

    Chris how about looking in to what DMV does with the registration money from atvs.And why NYS does not develope a trail system that could generate huge revenue for the state.More than snowmobiles do!! Do a little research, other states do it with great results.

  3. Josh says:

    Are you guys kidding me , have you ever been back there and seen the trash that has been dumped back there from yonder farms , the town, and all the other people that walk back there . That entire area is littered with trash , you cant just point your fingers at ATV’S . And the pictures that were taken , some are truck tracks and the other is a track from a trator . These people “Mike and Marcy ” are the same type of people who move right next to a farm then complain about the smell and try and shut it down. If you wanted a quite area you should have moved to a retirement home

  4. Eddie G says:

    Sorry Josh but your analogy is way off. The most important fact is that the ATV riders are breaking the law and trasspassing on private property. Farmers exercising their right to farm are operating within the law. Huge difference.

  5. swon says:

    Great topic and discussion.

    I always wondered to myself if people have funds for quads, dirt bikes, trailers and trucks to transport them, why were they not smart enough to buy land or think about where they would use thier motorized toys…

    I have stopped mountain biking at the techpark due to the perilous trails destroyed by quaders. The spring melt always makes the trails a mess and the vernal pools and muddy trails seem to be an irresistible challenge for quaders to see how big of tire ruts they can make.

    Under no circumstances should quads or dirt bikes be allowed on public lands, it would only ruin a good thing. Quaders don’t enrich trails or the environment, they only take and destroy. Fixing trails once and tearing it up all year is not responsible quad ownershp. At least hunters have a vested interest in a strong and healthy ecology year round.

    I don’t know what the solution is, if a quad rolls up on to you on a trail, even if you politely try to tell them they are being inconsiderate you’ll likely be told to f off or given grief by the teenage dystopian caravan mob of quaders…

  6. etc says:


    Solution: Allow private developers to build no maintenance high-rise and mid-rise condominiums in Albany-Schenectady-Troy. “New neighborhoods” (?) in rural areas won’t be created, wasting the land, and the ATV riders, et al, can use the natural woods all they want.

    Build UP, not out!

  7. lafred says:

    ATVs are a nuisance and, in some instances, a menace. A little over a year ago my husband was hit by an ATV while jogging in an area that was posted “No motorized vehicles”. He moved to the side of the trail when he heard them coming, but it made no difference. There were 3 ATVs that were riding together, and not one stopped to see if my husband was all right. He was knocked down and his knee was badly injured. He walked/crawled to a nearby house and was taken to the emergency room by ambulance. He may have to have a knee replacement because of the damage done. No one was ever caught and held responsible for this.

  8. longtime runner says:

    ATV riders have caused great damage on many public hiking trails around the region. Do any of these riders devote any effort to repairing the damage caused by their vehicles so these trails can be once again used for their intended purpose — for those on foot?

  9. Mike says:

    There Are atv legal riding areas within a hours or so drive of the capital district.Atvers should look into that and join a club.There are three atv and dirtbike clubs in Rensselaer county alone.

  10. Dennis says:

    the times union cracks me up. Ruts caused by ATVS created wetlands and job losses…wow. just too bad the evil black assault rifles couldnt be blamed for damages…
    People dont like it? Do move to RURAL america. You have farm lands and all this land, build a bunch of developments, have yuppies move in, and complain when you hear a quad or gunshot. DONT MOVE HERE!

  11. Bernster says:

    So a mud puddle made by ATVs qualifies as a wetland??? Government insanity at it’s best!!!

  12. Jango Davis says:

    I work in the area mentioned in teh article. 4-wheel ATV drivers are among the most thoughtless and ignorant drivers I’ve met. They treat other people’s property like their own and public trails like a wasteland, which is exactly what’s left of the land when they’re done with it.

    Then when you tell them to stay off your property and public lands not designated for trail riding they say, “hey, don’t move out to the country if you don’t like it.”

    So, that’s all it takes to rationize breaking the law…moving out to the country….good to know…

  13. Jim P says:

    I concur with post #2… WHAT IS NYS doing with the required atv registration fees? I’m sure that many ATV’ers that don’t register their vehicles WOULD do it IF the state actually used the money collected to have and maintain legal trails for their use.

    ATV’s don’t belong on these trails, but let’s face it, some of these complainers have no problem having their dog relieve itself right in the middle of the trail and don’t think for a second about picking it up.

  14. Mike says:

    This is a topic near and dear to my heart. Some people love nature because of the peace and tranquility it brings them. It’s so powerful, poets have written about it, crooners sing about it, and photographers are in awe of it. Other people just use nature to play with their toys. They have no consideration for the damage they do, the pollution (both air and noise) that they cause. I’ve never really understood these people, and I wish the state would do more to keep them in there own little mess, rather than allowing them to make a mess everywhere. Build a trail system for them, let them screw up what is theirs. I’d personally love to see the things outlawed, but we all know that will never happen.

  15. Mike says:

    I forgot to mention, I strongly agree with requiring registration for all of these vehicles, with strong penalties if you’re found operating without. Looks at these registration fees like cigarettes; if you have people doing something undesirable that you can’t outlaw…tax them to death, and use that tax money for good.

  16. Lance says:


    That’s a great suggestion. I’ve looked for a local group to join and legally ride. Do you have any info on the local clubs? thanks

  17. Random Walk says:

    Just look at the shoulder on I-90 East when you come in from Massachusetts.

    There’s a stretch as you enter East Greenbush where you can see ATV trails that rutted the area off the highway a few years ago. Now those ruts are eroding into deep gouges that will turn into much deeper cuts in a few years.

    Parents who give the kids these things should be forking out the $$$ to fix the public and private property they destroy.

  18. Jim P says:

    @mike…. how much MORE nature land do you want?
    For example, the Adirondack park is already bigger than five national parks COMBINED and yet people like you think that it should be ALL for you and like minded people. The villages in the Park existed LONG before the the entity was created and now are forced to abide by what the Park Authority says…even though its THEIR home. How can they make a living? Who cares?… just as long as people like you can drive up the Northway on a weekend in their air polluting SUV’s and take a walk. Talk about lack the lack of respect of someone else’s backyard, why don’t you look in the mirror?

  19. Victoria says:

    Seriously..if you don’t have enough property to ride your toy. Then you shouldn’t have this toy. You never have the right to destroy other’s property. Totally ignorant.

  20. Mike says:

    @lance there are two clubs northeast atv association,and Hilltown riders.

  21. Don't Tread on Me says:

    I have recently purchased an elephant for recreation purposes. Unfortunately my yard is only .25 acre, which, as you can imagine, is not very fun for elephant riding. Despite having to file several permits with the DEC to own my elephant, the state refuses to designate any public lands for elephant trails. So I just use any swath of private property I see fit to exercise my right to ride. If property owners or nearby homeowners object to the sound, smell, or refuse left behind, well, they should’ve thought of that before moving next to such obviously attractive elephant trails.

  22. agreesomewhat says:

    I am have owned an ATV since the age of 16 and was taught very early on that you stay off private lands that do not belong to you. I can undertand the frustration. I do have some issues with the comments though, keep in mind I am not attacking just offering a point of view. First off all when I was allowed to ride on the land of others and some of the open public areas that do exist I never left trash behind. I have seen this done and it is disgusting. I have never “torn up” anyones land either, there is no need for this. I great deal of ATV riders enjoy riding slow and just seeing natire as well, just because they like doing this on an ATV does not mean they are bad. Like anything there are always bad examples. What I will admit to is that at times I have ridden on state trails that are closed to ATV riders and I do this because I pay the trail tax associated with my registration, what I will say is none of these lands are or ever would be is residential areas, most are very remote. I also ride repsonsibly and when I see people walking stop or slow down and allow them to pass me. The same for persons riding horses. I take some issue with the sense of entitlement some groups have to this land because its public, just because I am not running or riding a horse doesn’t mean I shouldnt be able to use it. What we do need is designated trails like they have for snowmobiling. These are maintained by clubs and consist or private and public lands and noone is surprised to see the machines on the trails. I guess in all my rambling the point is I agree with the article in general and people should not be on PRIVATE property or in areas with a large volume of runners and walkers ect… However if the state is going to galdly collect this money and mandate the registration then designated trails should be provided. The clubs could then regulate and maintain the trails and make sure the abusers are reported and banned from the area.

  23. Robert says:

    Some of you just DON’T UNDERSTAND!

    If I have enough money to buy some expensive piece of equipment: ATV, JetSki, Segue, skooter, whatever, I have a god-given RIGHT to use my expensive toy wherever I darn please, and with NO RESTRICTIONS either, so don’t talk to me about licensing. I paid sales tax on my toy and the government got its money so that gives me permission to use it wherever I want, including public and even private property. My money counts for SOMETHING, you know! [end sarcasm]

  24. Dan says:

    ATV’s are a horrific menace. Most ATV owners that I know have tiny lots, and let their kids ride on the road unsupervised, and constantly tresspass on other people’s property. And that’st he least of it. The machines are incredibly noisy, a ridiculous public nuisance. A few years back I hiked to a small pond with my canoe, foolishly planning a quiet afternoon fishing in the ADK’s. Silly me, but along came a couple of selfish oafs on ATV’s kicking up a huge cloud of dust and making an earsplitting racket with their poorly muffled, junked “quads.” I’m sure THEY had a good time, little immature boys that they were (over 40 of course), but everyone else had their days ruined. It’s just another selfish “hobby” that can’t be pursued without wrecking someone else’s peace and quiet. ATV’s shouldn’t be allowed in the ADK’s or within earshot of decent people. Now let the ignoramuses start their name-calling .

  25. Josh says:

    @ ATV HATERS , all you people have had bad run ins with atv’ers , I myslef belong to a few clubs and enjoy atving , And because of a few a’holes it ruins it for everyone. Come to my club and I would show you a nature loving family oriented group . Every sunday we get together as a family and some friends and take a ride . Its getting the kids out in nature and enjoying time away from the everyday stress. Just like your hiking .and mountain biking .

  26. Karen says:

    I wonder how many of the people in the development pick up their dog droppings? I have walked on those trails and have dodged alot droppings and a few times i have come across some skiers who think they own the trails, these are city people who like to complain

  27. Terri says:

    I continue to be amazed by the rationalization that if there was a place for them to ride their ATV’s they wouldn’t have to ride on private property. Do they listen to themselves? How about, don’t purchase them unless you have your own land on which to ride.

  28. alfredeneuman says:

    As he was leaving, a repairman who had been to my house looked at the woods we are fortunate to own and asked if we ever went “quaddin’.” I told him we don’t care for ATVs, they weren’t welcome on our land, and that we have to tolerate the noise of groups of them racing up our road (at far above the 25 mph speed limit) to get to the trails, all of which are on private or public land which they do not have permission to ride on. He rationalized his activity and the erosion and damage that ATVs cause by stating that they are good for the environment because they “aerate the soil.” I couldn’t keep from laughing in his face.

  29. Frank Smith says:

    If the local police can’t/won’t do enough, can’t the state police help? We need to SEIZE the vehicles and fine the owners enough to make reparation for the damage they do.

  30. Jim P says:

    Since some of you want to stereotype ATV’ers, I’ll do the same for the nature lovers when it pertains to the Adirondack Park.
    Towns and villages in this park struggle to survive because they are so limited in the businesses they can run due to the edicts of the APA (Adirondack Park Agency). Most of the these towns rely on tourism to make it.
    I have spoken to many business owners in the park and when asked which type of tourist spends the LEAST amount of money at local businesses, almost to a person they say “the day hiker”. They say the day hikers bring everything they need from food and drink to other essentials from home and don’t spend a dime in the local communities…except maybe to fill up their hypocritical pollution producing vehicle for the ride home.

    When I ask these same business owners who spends the MOST money in their communities, their answer in most cases is either the snowmobiliers or the recreational boaters.

    Now, do I believe all nature lovers are selfish and cheap?
    No…just as I don’t believe all ATV’ers are the devil incarnate. But…how’s that broad brush feel?

  31. Dennis says:

    ny sucks. cant do anything that we grew up with. If it were up to the liberals, you wouldnt even be able to have a large soda or smoke in your yard.

  32. Sndragon says:

    How do you spell private property? Get written permission from the landowner and you can have all the fun he/she will allow.

  33. whoareyou says:

    Obviously, if a property owner doesn’t want you on his/her land, you shouldn’t be on it – regardless of whether you’re on a recreational vehicle – or hunting – or hiking. Also, riding recreational vehicles for any period of time within earshot of others is typically not a good idea.

    However, beyond those concerns, different people have different interests – different strokes for different folks. You may like to hike, I may like to ride. I’m not looking to limit your ability to hike, I would appreciate the same consideration from you – lest, as a true, full-on naturalist, I mount a campaign that points out that any intrusion is a bad intrusion and so you shouldn’t be hiking there either. For example, footpaths erode as well as quad paths…

    And, as to path erosion, if we look at the area of land through which trails run and compare it against the area actually taken up by those trails, you’re talking about a very small fraction of 1% that the trails occupy – this is essentially much ado over pretty much nothing.

    Further, recreational vehicles are actually a tool of nature. As the article points out, the quads have CREATED ‘wetlands’ (omg, lol) – you know, those precious mosquito-breeding pits so loved by eco-nuts (and reviled by most people that live near them). So, I would conclude that quads are doing god’s work, they’re “what jesus would drive”, they’re nature’s intent.

  34. jeff says:

    Try a gated community, no ATVs there

  35. potrzebie says:

    Guerilla ATVers that knowingly tear up private land also know that the chances of getting caught and fined are slim to none.

  36. Jim says:

    Loved the elephant analogy above. We live in southern Clifton Park and just cancelled a $15k patio and deck project because of kids in the neighborhood riding a very loud ATV around and around their 1/4 acre lot for hours on end. No sense spending $15k so we can sit outside and listen to idiocy. A coworker had a near head-on collision with one on a residential street last winter. ATV noise was a topic at several Town Board meetings last year and they were pretty dismissive of the issue-I’m sure they don’t live next door to something like this. Society continues to cater to the lowest common denominator while the vast majority –decent, respectful folks– pay the price.

  37. Mike says:

    If you look closely at the post sign in the picture it says no tresspassing for ANY pupose!! So what makes these two people think they are not braking the law also just because they are walking. This article is pretty ONE sided.

  38. ann says:

    Huh, I wonder how long you’d get for shooting at ATVers on your property?

    It’ll happen eventually if it hasn’t already.

    This idea that you are entitled to destroy another’s property because you have an ATV is ridiculous.

  39. Erin L says:

    I don’t think people should be riding on public or private lands without permission. I LOVE to ride on friend’s and families’ land, and when we buy a house next year, we’re going to make sure we buy something with adequate land for us to enjoy (and maybe we’ll get neighbors who like riding too!) That being said, if I wasn’t a big fan of ATV’s, I’d be ripsh*t if someone was riding on my land without permission.

  40. red says:

    It would be better for the environment, and all our waistlines, if people swapped snowmobiles for cross-country skis, Jet-Skis for wind-surfing boards, and mountain bikes for ATVs… some element of adrenaline still there without the noise and belching of greenhouse gases. Being an avid X-C skier, I’ve made peace with snowmobilers since their machines flatten snow on the backwoods trails excellently, and if I’m alone, as often I am, their presence zooming by now and then means safety. It’s harder for me to see any redeeming value in the other two personal craft. However, trying to understand that people genuinely enjoy personal motorized craft, maybe a good thing to do would be to perfect quieter, low-emission versions (hybrid or electric?) This would not remove all objections to such craft but would help resolve conflict about them being a nuisance.

  41. alfredeneuman says:

    whoareyou – Seriously? ATVs are good for the environment? Hikers (and mountain bikes) do not cause 1% as much destruction and erosion as ATVs. the only trail users that come close to ATVs and dirt motorcycles in damage are horses. That’s why there are separate equestrian trails in the Adirondacks, and horses are not allowed on hiking trails.

  42. T518 says:

    Can we all agree “Crotch Rockets” should be the real enemy?

  43. alfredeneuman says:

    T518 – No. “Crotch rockets” is a phrase which refers to road racing motorcycles. Not germane to this discussion.

  44. Jango Davis says:

    Yes, 4-wheelers and nature-lovers really do collide in the woods:

    ATV driver charged with DWI after girl struck

    Read more: driver-charged-with-DWI-after-girl-struck-4467596.php#ixzz2Rcbv1znt

    You guys make it all too easy to argue against ATVs…I thank you all…

  45. alfredeneuman says:

    Jango – except that they didn’t collide in the woods. He was driving (drunk) on his ATV on a public residential street, where it is illegal to ever drive an ATV.