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Live-blogging: Republican fight club

Follow the action at last night's Republican candidates debate

Here we go - and tonight it's the Republicans' turn to throw mud at each other and then be outraged in turn. It could be a real fight - the Republican race is very tight, and several of these candidates need to make some hay tonight.

Live from the Sunshine state of Florida tonight, this debate takes place using the new-fangled medium of the interweb, in a partnership between CNN and Youtube, with ordinary people posting dull questions using video. The Democrats did it a while ago and it wasn't a huge success - let's see how this one pans out. We'll link to the Youtube questions as they appear.

Watch this historic* debate - through the medium of words - as we liveblog the debate from Florida from 8pm (1am GMT). Post your comments below. You know you want to.

* Warning: may not actually be historic.

8pm Florida's Republican governor Charlie Crist introduces the candidates.

8.08 Finally, after much faffing about, there's the first crappy video, a song introduction. Oh god. Pass sick bucket.

A reader in London emails: "So if it's all pre-prepared YouTube nonsense, can't the candidates quiz Rudy G over all those weekend trips with the mistress to the Hamptons that he billed to the New York city department of bubblegum removal?"

A good question, but I fear not since all these questions are done in advance. For more background, read here. [Update: I was wrong - see below.]

8.12 An actual question, to Giuliani. Was New York a "sanctuary city" for immigrants? Rudy says not, blah blah blah. But then Mitt Romney is asked: "Absolutely. It called itself a sanctuary city," he replies firmly. Now there's a friendly tone for the evening (as in, unfriendly).

Giuliani replies, and says: "Mitt generally criticizes people in a situation in which he's had far the worst record. For example, in his case, there were six sanctuary cities. He did nothing about them. There was even a sanctuary mansion. At his own home, illegal immigrants were being employed, not being turned into anybody or by anyone."

Wow. This is fun. Like watching two school bullies that you don't like fighting each other. You want them both to lose. And then get expelled.

8.15 They are still going at it. The details are a bit hazy but basically both Romney and Giuliani have accused each other of smuggling Mexicans into America in the trunks of their cars for cash. What they may be forgetting is that this debate is in Florida - a state with a lot of immigrants.

At one point Giuliani accuses Romney of "having a holier-than-thou attitude" about immigration, only for Romney to reply: "I'm sorry, immigration is not holier than thou, mayor. It's the law." Oh, you really told him.

8.21 They are still going on about immigration. It's like a broken record. Or a broken CD that does that annoying skipping thing and just goes back to the same place. In an airport cafe. The exception is a rather good answer by McCain, who carries some baggage on this issue: "We need to sit down as Americans and recognize these are God's children as well."

8.23 Now there's another question, for Tom Tancredo, who is so against immigration that he won't even eat at a Taco Bell. Now it's a question about the need for guest workers - from a company that is struggling to find staff.

Tancredo misunderstands the question and thinks it's about stopping guest workers. D'oh! "There are some jobs Americans won't take for what I can get any illegal immigrant to do that job for," grimaces Tom. "But am I going to feel sorry if a business has to increase its wages in order for somebody in this country to make a good living? No, I don't feel sorry about that and I won't apologize for it for a moment. And there are plenty of Americans who will do those jobs." Ah ha ha. Show this man an economics textbook. Better still, hit him over the head with it.

8.26 Now Duncan Hunter (R-Weirdo) outdoes everyone by saying that as president he would build a double fence along the border with Mexico in six months! I think he's locked up the pro-fence lobby, the barbed-wire industry and searchlight manufacturers.

8.31 Ooooh, a question for Ron Paul, asking him about the various crazed, wing-nut conspiracy theories that his supporters have. Ron responds: "It's a conspiracy of ideas." Er, yes... [backs away slowly.]

"It's not a conspiracy. They don't talk about it, and they might not admit about it," says Ron. Well that sounds like a conspiracy to me Ron! Who is this "they"? Oh no, now he's talking about "international government" and the UN - a traditional looney-tunes touchstone (eg, Lyndon LaRouche).

8.34 It's the economy-stupid question. This is where all the Republican candidates compete to shout how much they are going to cut taxes and balance the budget and stuff. John McCain is talking about stuff he's stopped. "I'd take an old veto pen that Ronald Reagan gave me," says McCain - bonus points for first shoehorning of mention of St Ronald Raygun.

8.36 A commenter on CNN's own website writes: "All these YouTube questions are completely lame. This will turn into a four hour debate at this rate. Thanks for doing another poor job with these debates CNN." Woo.

8.38 Every candidate would reform social security and cut spending and cut taxes and give a lollipop to every child.

"Washington did not change me," says Ron Paul. So you've always been nuts then?

8.40 Oh lord. Mike Huckabee has just pledged to abolish the Internal Revenue Service. Fruitcake alert.

Is there a full moon tonight? [Looks out window.] OK, that's one possible explanation ruled out.

McCain just accused Ron Paul of causing World War Two. Well, an isolationist attitude in terms of Iraq: "I just want to also say that Congressman Paul, I've heard him now in many debates talk about bringing our troops home, and about the war in Iraq and how it's failed. And I want to tell you that that kind of isolationism, sir, is what caused World War II." McCain obviously senses he can beat up Ron Paul for fun and profit. A lot of boos from the audience, which adds a student atmosphere touch to proceedings.

8.43 Eek! Evil anti-tax weirdo Grover Norquist is on, asking the candidates to pledge not to raise taxes. Fred Thompson and John McCain say their pledge is to the American people, so no. But they really hate taxes. If Tax was a person, they'd throw him into Guantanamo. And waterboard him.

8.48pm Actual news - Rudy Giuliani is asked about the Politico's big scoop today about Giuliani's strange accounting of what may have been trips to see his lover.

Says Giuliani: "First of all, it's not true. I had 24-hour security for the eight years that I was mayor. They followed me everyplace I went. It was because there were, you know, threats, threats that I don't generally talk about." He doesn't like to talk about it, ok? That doesn't really answer the question though. He may as well have said: "The sun came up each day, and I had nothing to do with it." And what isn't true exactly?

8.51 It's the trade deficit. "Let's buy American this Christmas season," says Duncan Hunter. Presumably an American fence to put around your house to stop illegal immigrants.

8.53 The candidates get to run their own campaign video at one point during the debate - and now it's Fred Thompson's turn. His is really weird: just clips of his opponents, Romney and Huckabee. Puzzled, the moderator Anderson Cooper then asks Thompson: "What's with that?" Indeed. What's with that? It's like some sort of zen art installation, the ones that are called "challenging" by critics.

Thanks for the comments so far. Stevecov - yes the gorgeous Anderson C - he's soooo dreamy - is indeed the moderator.

9.06 As for the question about who's winning: the Democratic party is my pick. These guys seem obsessed with a narrow range of issues, like immigration. Now it's the gun questions, all a bit creepy. With some creepy questions. Like this one.

So they've asked the candidates if they own guns. Fred T says: "I own a couple of guns but I'm not telling you what type or where they are." Oh Fred, you're so tough. Loser.

John McCain says he doesn't own a gun, and neither do Giuliani and Romney - but Romney says: "There are two guns in my home - they both belong to my son Josh." Sneaky.

9.10 Speaking of narrow interests, it's abortion question time. A very interesting question, asking what crime a woman who has an abortion has committed if abortion is illegal. Ron Paul - an obs and gynie doctor in real life - says that's up to the states, but adds: "I mean, there has to be a criminal penalty for the person that's committing that crime. But I really think it's the person who commits the crime. And I think that is the abortionist."

9.13 On the death penalty - what would Jesus do? is the latest Youtube question. Huckabee says: "You know, one of the toughest challenges that I ever faced as a governor was carrying out the death penalty.... Let me tell you, it was the toughest decision I ever made as a human-being."

Anderson Cooper says that he has to press him on the question, on what would Jesus do?" Huckabee replies: "Jesus was too smart to ever run for public office, Anderson. That's what Jesus would do." Big laugh.

See, this is why Huckabee is a strong candidate: he's funny. The rest of them are as funny as the flu.

9.17 A guy waves the Bible and asks: "Do you believe every word of this book? Specifically, this book that I am holding in my hand, do you believe this book?"

Romney says: "I believe the Bible is the word of God." Do you believe every word, asks Anderson. "Er ... the Bible is the word of God. I mean, I might interpret the word differently than you interpret the word, but I read the Bible and I believe the Bible is the word of God. I don't disagree with the Bible," says Mitt. Of course. And Mormons liked it so much they added a couple more chapters and a whole new Messiah. Plus some colour photos.

This is a question that plays into Huckabee's hands. No, he says, he doesn't understand everything in the Bible: "There are parts of it I don't fully comprehend and understand, because the Bible is a revelation of an infinite god, and no finite person is ever going to fully understand it." Smooth.

9.25 Foreign policy! And foreign policy means ... Muslims! And Iraq! (Giuliani said something nuts just now but I was forced to erase it from my brain immediately. Sorry.) Oh, I remember now: Giuliani complained that none of the Democrats at their last debate used the phrase "Islamic terrorism". Or maybe they never used the phrase "crazed 9/11 Islamofascist hyper-suicide bombers". Whatever.

Duncan Hunter: "I will never apologise for the United States of America." Well that's that cleared up.

9.30 Now, a question about waterboarding - is it torture. Bang! McCain smacks down Romney over torture. Romney wibbled on about the need for tough treatment against terrorists, which led to this dialogue:

McCain: Well, governor, I'm astonished that you haven't found out what waterboarding is. Romney: I know what waterboarding is, Senator. McCain: Then I am astonished that you would think such a - such a torture would be inflicted on anyone who we are holding captive and anyone could believe that that's not torture. It's in violation of the Geneva Convention. It's in violation of existing law.

McCain goes on: "We're not going to do what Pol Pot did. We're not going to do what's being done to Burmese monks as we speak."

This is McCain at his best - and Romney looks a bit sick, especially when McCain polishes him off with: "I would hope that we would understand, my friends, that life is not 24 and Jack Bauer."

9.35 Oh, now McCain smacks Ron Paul around on Vietnam - "After we left Vietnam, they didn't want to follow us home. They wanted to build their own workers' paradise." Kewl. Ron P gives a slightly rambling reply, and refers to "the al-Qaida".

9.47 I've got that losing -the-will-to-live point in the evening.

Oh, here's an interesting question, from a retired general who is gay - and asks what's wrong with them serving in the military.

Duncan Hunter says that he's against gays serving because "most kids who leave that breakfast table and go out and serve in the military and make that corporate decision with their family, most of them are conservatives." Eh? That's more than a bit nuts.

Romney is asked about a comment he made in 1994 that he "looked forward to the day when gays could serve openly in the military". Now he's saying "now is not the right time". Flip-flopper.

The questioner is asked what he thinks, and he's not happy. The audience is restless. McCain replies, and he says that "almost unanimously" current generals tell him that "don't ask, don't tell" is working.

A question from the comments from 2468KaBoom: "When's someone going to ask the Mormon about his bat-shit insane beliefs?" You mean like the idea that cutting taxes can solve a budget deficit? Or the compulsory health insurance is good for Massachusetts but not for the rest of the country?

9.56 Not long to go now, and they are whipping through the questions. Why, I don't know. Someone asks if the candidates support sending people to Mars. Mike Huckabee slyly replies: " Now, whether we need to send somebody to Mars, I don't know. But I'll tell you what: If we do, I've got a few suggestions, and maybe Hillary could be on the first rocket to Mars." Oh ha.

10.02 Now a question about candidates think about the flag of the old South, the stars and bars. Romney replies quite sensibly that it's not a flag he recognises and wouldn't have it up himself. Fred Thompson rambles on for a bit about how some people thinks its good, and some people think it's a symbol of racism. Funny, the question not long before was why black people didn't vote for the Republicans. Maybe it's answers like that.

10.06 Now a question about infrastructure... hmm. It's that exciting (yes, I know infrastructure is an important topic).

10.09 Last question! It's a softball - well, baseball - for Giuliani: why did he support the Red Sox in the World Series? Blah blah.

Right, that's it. Well it was very similar to the last Democratic debate, in that the first 15 minutes were hot stuff, over immigration this time, and then the temperature went out and the debate began to drag.

Once again, no knock-out blows or big hits. No one screwed up, no one had a fantastic performance, although McCain and Huckabee both gave some really good replies and sounded statesmanlike. Romney and Giuliani squabbled, and that helps neither of them.

I'm not sure this debate is going to help sort out the Republican race - it is unlikely to change the existing trends, of Romney and Giuliani battling away, and Huckabee and McCain creeping up. Again, Fred Thompson didn't do badly but hardly made an impression. he's not very impressive in these forums. Or any forum, in fact.

Right, that's it. Next up, the Democrats on December 17. Thank you and good night.

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