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Old November 28, 2010, 09:10 AM   #51
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And if someone draws first blood, in my camp it's their deer.....period.
Not every scenario is so clear cut. A hunter may shoot a wounded deer without knowning it has already been shot.
In Arkansas the law says whoever KILLS the deer has rights to it. Not who shot it first. The kill is what counts.
OTOH, arguments with angry guys who have guns isn't worth the risk or effort. Give it up, there will be other days and other deer.
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Old November 28, 2010, 10:33 AM   #52
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You know what there uh Rifleman, I sure as hell can tell and I sure as hell will leave the Government out of my hunting. You can't tell me that in Most scenarios you can't tell if a whitetail is already wounded? There is a huge difference in the mannerisms of a healthy and a wounded deer, and if you hunt long enough on publioc ground you'll see it to be true. And Arkansas law needs to be changed to mind they're own damn business! If your young son or daughter shoots a deer that runs over the next hill only to have all the next crowd down it, what do you tell them? oh well you should shoot better? hell no, You go get they're animal!! I can tell if a whitetail has been wounded and it's my Duty as a hunter to extinguish this wounded animal as fast and painless as I can. That law does nothing to promote Good ethics especially in younger hunters. If my kids, shot a deer and it doesn't go down, there shoouldn't be any question in they're mind that they can't have the deer, because it ran off into the next barrage of hunters, Hell don't you think that would make for more people shooting down deer, before the deer has a chance to die from it's first wound??? Never in my years have I heard of such a deal. But if I ever hunt Arkansas I will remember to shoot the deer down til I'm out of ammo, or until it falls apart, or whatever to keep it from running to the nerxt group of shooters, Dove hunting maybe!!! Deer hunting never!!!! that's the way we hooligans role!!!
Thanks for coming!
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Old November 28, 2010, 10:44 AM   #53
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For the Legalist you are correct, however that is where ethics come in.
Take a permenent deer stand on public property. By law it belongs to the 1st person to climb into it. There is no other way to adress that by LAW.
However one should not go climbing into it on opening morning because they can. It just isn't ethical. Of course there could be 101 factors involved, but you get the drift I hope.

As for the OP, I think this thread has defined him to the point that if he were ever to get into a "sticky wicky" situation where bullets fly he had better have more than his word on what happened.
In His Own Words;
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Old November 28, 2010, 12:48 PM   #54
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Ohio's law is the same as Arkansa. Futhermore, in this state whether your on public or private land, you don't own that deer until its checked in at a checking station. Its the property of the state.

If the deers on its feet, don't care if its got 10 holes in it, legally its fair game.

If I still hunted on public land, you could bet if I pulled the trigger, I'd do my best to make sure that the deer I shot didn't run.

There are more than a few states with the same law. So before you run over the hill after a deer you shot thats still running,ready to go to war, only to hear a shot on yawn side of hill and see somebody else tagging your deer, make sure you're right. Even in Missouri.

Unethical, IMO yes. But so is the mandatory appeal in the death penalty case of a guilty self-confessed child murderer. But its the law.

I've shot deer coming through the woods which I knew were shot. Had no intentions of keeping the deer but just downing it till the person who shot it came along. I've not had one person yet that was angry at me for shooting the deer. They've all been very thankful.

The 'war zone' (shotgun season)starts here in Ohio in the morning. Hope everyone stays safe.
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Old November 28, 2010, 09:45 PM   #55
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Actually there's some interesting responses to this. More than a few got my feeling on this which was that grey areas were crossed, conflict brought to the edge of lethal arms escalation, good sense prevailed in terms of a deer not being worth taking it further. I wouldn't have slept good at night shooting two guys over a deer.

In my defense I waited after the first shot for a second to see if the guy would follow up with a good shot, when it missed too I knew I had about one second to get that shell shocked deer before it was going into deer overdrive.

Let's say of those two guys hunting together one shoots twice and misses and his partner says to heck with this and drops it. I know for a fact there isn't going to be a dispute about who hit it or who's deer it is (the person who hit it is going to claim it), that's the standard common sense ethics of the matter.

This came down to me taking it to the ragged edge of someone blowing it and I stepped in as everyone was going to lose it and dropped it.

I was fully cognizant of that first shot and the second as well, had either shot even touched that deer there is no way I'd have shot it too. Had it been wounded and needing to be finished off I wouldn't shoot it unless told to by the original shooter, people get real sensitive about meat destroying second shots, I would not consider it my place to shoot an already shot deer.

A deer will stand there frozen from a missed shot or even two, but when their sense of shock wears off they are moving into top gear to a degree that not many people are going to put a bullet to them.

I don't think I made a horrible decision shooting when I did, and nine out of ten hunters would have been 100% aware that my bullet dropped the deer, and more than likely humbled by missing from 75 yards when I hit it from over 250. Had I had two nice guys on the other end of this I'd have offered to clean and split it with them because I wouldn't have wanted to deal with it myself if I had a chance to have help and camaraderie for the job. My tag, they get half the deer that wasn't their hit, most would have left happy. This was a big deer and I didn't have freezer space for that much anyway, I'd have been giving half of it away regardless.

No, I encountered white trash locals used to throwing their weight around in numbers. I looked like a wealthy out of towner with fancy clothes and gear and they didn't know I was a local Georgetown bad boy gone good. I was using this here as one of those examples of something that can have life altering consequences in the split second it takes for someone to make a bad move when the shoe is not on the right foot.

To me what goes through someone's head as they are in the middle of a potentially life threatening altercation is fascinating stuff. Every person has a lot of scenarios running through their head, most critical is the equation of what side of the law am I on here? A cop facing a gun wielding threat knows he has only to use set criteria for pulling a trigger and he's good. The bad guy has to do the math himself as to can he get away with it, is it defense as a criteria or will he have to get away clean and without evidence.

What was going through my head was actually sort of humorous in a dark kinda way, and there's a lot of guys riding the straight and narrow that wouldn't see the humor at all.

Allright, I'll let it roll even though it will be with mixed reviews. As the one guy was edging to one side and looking itchy to grab his pistol I was running scenarios. The one I saw that was a split second away from happening was that I was about to have to shoot both guys because one was about to make a grab for a gun. No doubts in my head it was going to be a fact. I was running what was going to have to happen as far as how I handled it and I started laughing and said they could have the deer. They were both a little annoyed that there seemed to be some joke they weren't a part of (but yes they were). Why was that funny and why I arrived at giving them the deer?

Simple, because if I shot their ignorant redneck butts I was going to have to hightail it back across the clearing to my vehicle and leave the deer anyway. I'm sorry, I just wouldn't have been stupid enough to gut and haul that deer after shooting two guys. In thinking the whole process of what I'd have to do I was already aware of the fact that I had picked up my ejected shell because I reload, I was clean. But fact of the matter was there was no point in escalating this to shooting when I couldn't have the deer anyway.

Come on, I'm being facetious, a deer isn't worth anyone's life. But that dark little scenario was running in my head along with the other sensibilities. I wouldn't have shot them even if I could have had the deer. , I definitely would have had they done something stupid. Part of the reason that guy said I could have half the deer was that perhaps they were catching on that they could be in trouble.

All the "I'd have got caught" comments aren't necessary, this was in a area that people get shot or go missing all the time, certain incidents such as this never do get solved, they are just too random.

That's why I don't hunt on public land anymore, I've known several people who got shot intentionally because the guys who did it knew they could get away with it.
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Old November 28, 2010, 10:12 PM   #56
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Woodguru et al.:

"Ya'll keep saying a dead deer wasn't worth my life; well, that never ever occurred to me. The only thing running in my mind was was it worth killing two idiots for." Right there is why this 'Nam vet does not go hunting alone. I have learned, hard way, some life is cheap. And some idiots need killin'. I always sleep well.
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Old November 28, 2010, 10:23 PM   #57
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Looks like this thread has gone 'round and 'round as much as might be needful.
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