﻿ Should I stay or should I go? A veterinarian's guide to boondoggles, dinners and other 'gifts' | petMD

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It's the holiday season, so gifts weigh heavily on everyone's minds. But sometimes the stress has more to do with the gifts you're not so sure you should accept than with those society deems necessary for you bestow upon others. In this case, I'm referring to a subject I've treated here before: Veterinary coziness with industry's generous handouts.

It's a tough subject, to be sure. After all, everyone likes a parade — especially one in their honor and paid for by someone else. Yet it's ethically questionable for a professional to accept all but the least consequential of gifts. This is especially true when the gift comes not from a client, but from an individual or entity whose products or services are potentially a part of the professional's repertoire. Translation: If the gift risks swaying professional opinion, accepting it raises ethical issues.

So when veterinarians attend lectures sponsored (and heavily if not exclusively subsidized) by veterinary industry companies, or when we accept the offer of a spa day or dinner out on the town, among other alluring possibilities, we're always tasked with deciding whether or not the "gift" in question meets our conflict of interest standards.

For me it's usually a pretty simple decision. If the gift is far less of a commercial for a product or service than it is an educational opportunity, and it's going to a) benefit my patients and/or b) benefit my readers … then I'm usually willing to accept.

So while I will actively seek out industry sponsorships for my veterinary association's continuing education meetings, and firmly believe the resulting relationship is a win-win, I do not condone any gift or boondoggle-ish activity in which pure luxury with no hope of redemption in the form of education is to be expected.

A spa day or round of golf, for example, is pure, indefensible cush. And while I've attended events like this in the past, I will confess to having felt morally unjustified in doing so.

Dinner at the best restaurant in town? Fair game. But offer me an official CE lecture to prove you can teach me something I can use. Because if it turns out your gift of three-star dining comes with naught but talk of your goods, I'll be feeling pretty dirty afterwards … and probably no longer so keen on your product, ironically enough.

Enter a new twist: blogging. My daily blogging behavior means a lot more gifts than I could ever put to use. I get lots of books, toys, treats and all the new goops, salves, and snake oils that can be had. It's fun, really it is. And some of these products have actually earned a place in my daily life. But does that mean I write about them? Almost never (though there have been some exceptions).

It usually works more like this: I write something about a product I already use and respect. Next thing I know I'm receiving a thank you box full of the product and all its new permutations. It happens. Not always, but perhaps one out of five times. And I think that's OK. I'll take a gift on the back end, seeing as I don't feel paid, or paid off, to use it. It's just a nice thank you I honestly never intended to solicit.

After all, it's not like I'm falling into the mommy blogger trap. You know the one. It's when you set up a blog about mommy/baby products in which you review the zillions of products companies send to you from all over. If you offer a good review you get a check, a lifetime supply of the product, a trip to Disney World, etc. It's being done all over the Internet. But then, that's a business model that goes way beyond the blog.

Still, there are some questionable boondoggles I've been offered. They've involved travel, fine dining, and cozy lodging. And they've been undeniably educational, but still worth worrying over. Because there's a line there somewhere, and I feel it's hovering dangerously close any time I get to feeling really tempted.

But then … I'm sure your fine opinions on this subject will help clarify the issues completely. Please, fire away.

Dr. Patty Khuly

P.S. - Did I forget to mention that one of my educational trips involved a flight to the U.K.? Hence the creepy but cute Stonehenge pic.

Pic of the day: "stonhenge flying dogs" by Alice Chaos

Comments  21

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  • Perks
    12/21/2010 02:38am

    Sorry... I'm from the old school! I've been in sales, marketing, real estate, education, medicine, sports, and entertainment - AND there have always been 'big time' perks!

    Nowadays, it's all in bad taste... if not illegal. It seems pretty stupid to me that a lot of people who can't handle the competition, scream, "Unfair!" I, personally, never let it influence me... unduly. It seemed that most of the people I knew, took it fairly light-heartedly.

    Then we had to become 'politically correct' and 'liberated' and that ruined the whole thing for everyone!

    You're absolutely right to take the position you have.

    Let the whiners grab a 'bagged lunch'... I'm opting for a glass of wine at the lodge, while I listen to another 'CE' opportunity.

  • 12/21/2010 02:54am

    Dr. Patty Khuly, how do I contact you with a question, as your contact link wont work. I have a question for you concerning zyrtec. Thanks Ty
    Sorry off subject

  • 12/21/2010 06:25am

    Sorry about the contact link. I'll have it fixed straightaway. Contact me at drkhuly@petmd.com.

  • What About Vet Students?
    12/21/2010 05:46am

    What do you think about pharmacuitical and pet food companies offering free products/food to vet students? I'm a VM3 at ISU and there are always luncheons about products, product give aways, and reduced cost food. I always feel uneasy about those things and only accept the reduced cost dog food since the money I pay for it goes to scholarship funds for the school. I feel like they are preying on us in hopes to persuade us to use their products in the future.

  • 12/21/2010 06:33am

    Are they preying on you? Yes and no. In an ideal world, this would be a symbiotic relationship, not a predator-prey situation. But the reality is that they stand to lose a lot if their product isn't out in front of you at a very early stage. Which means they can seem pretty aggressive in their wooing of you. Their intentions are not nefarious, however. They simply want you to know who they are and take them seriously as a contender for your professional affections. But I urge you to continue to feel "uneasy." As long as you do I believe it means you'll be better able to put these products and their pitches in the right context.

  • 12/21/2010 08:46am

    Preying on you? Absolutely! Why else do clients have to walk past the "junk food aisle" in the vet's office? -- you know, those shelves with bags of "prescription foods" made with corn, pork fat and peanut hulls?

  • 12/22/2010 12:31am

    I always like to point med/vet students toward the "No Free Lunch" website when they ask about the ethics of accepting freebies from drug/food companies...


    FWIW, my alma mater has stopped all drug company lunches and giveaways at the med school. I imagine the vet school won't be too far behind.

  • Gifting
    12/21/2010 06:05am

    Dr. Khuly, from your posts, it's obvious that the critters' well-being is always your first concern. I cannot imagine that a nice dinner would sway you to suggest a medication or treatment that wasn't in the best interest of your patient.

    CE is always a good thing. Dinner is nice. Perhaps you should go with the "bore-ability" factor. Is a nice dinner worth being bored to death for a couple of hours? (Not in my book)

    Unless it's to present, a free trip seems like a bit much, but is it going to sway you to use that company's product?

    Heck, I'm amazed that companies still cough up big dollar freebies.

    Freebies AFTER you have determined that a product is good would be perfectly acceptable since it's more of a "thank you".

    If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. You're on the right track.

  • 12/21/2010 06:53am

    Perhaps I should add something that I've learned from experience: Walk away from any freebie where you are pressured to sign on the dotted line along with the freebie. (Think hard-sell window salespeople. I'm not even polite when they start the hard-sell. They are summarily dismissed.)

  • Another morality lesson
    12/21/2010 10:33am

    My occasional perusal of Fully Vetted is determined, primarily, by subject matter and not by your roguish writing style (although, I admit to enjoying it). But I have read frequently enough to opine that you use the FV forum to air your morality dance to your readership far too often. Whether it’s $2 / $4 eggs or gifts from the vet industry to practitioners, you’re going to make sure your fandom knows you’re always taking the moral highroad.

    You write, “Yet it's ethically questionable for a professional to accept all but the least consequential of gifts.” Why is this form of gift giving questionable to you? When (1) the common good is at issue (even in the slightest), and (2) if the intent of the bestower is to influence the bestowed to be more favorable toward his/her (*hh) product or service, then this intent alone determines morality and not you. When is a gift given under these circumstances, and this is not the intent?

    So, a $100 gift certificate for you and your boyfriend at your favorite restaurant is in the palest gray area for you? You also write, “If the gift risks swaying professional opinion, accepting it raises ethical issues.” Under this guideline, you can stand behind your ethical compass and consistently claim, “There is no risk with me, no influence will ever be accepted and you can park the Mercedes right here.”

    Regarding daily-blog gifts, they can easily be screened for usefulness and safety and distributed to local animal rescue organizations.

    Lastly, you write, “Because there's a line there somewhere, and I feel it's hovering dangerously close any time I get to feeling really tempted.” Of course, there’s a line somewhere. It’s where the black meets the white.

    Obviously, anyone who is in a position to be influenced toward an unethical end has to be hh own judge. But please, stop wearing the morality badge as if you were the “ethics sheriff” for all of us.

    * Since no one, to my knowledge, has resolved this “gender-pronoun” issue, I’m designating, forever and ever, “hh” to be the grammatical equivalent of his/her (what a collective time saver). By the way, why isn’t it her/his?

  • 12/21/2010 11:35am

    Please don’t speak *for all of us*. At least Dr. K. has a conscience to question the morality of gifting to begin with. I’m sure somewhere along the way you’ve been the culprit, too. What about that coupon for 50% off, or the buy one-get one free, or the raffle for a year’s worth of goodies? It’s all to promote products, it’s the way business is conducted.

    The Mercedes in the drive way is such an exaggeration…..

  • 12/21/2010 12:00pm

    Amen! :)

  • 12/21/2010 12:01pm

    Oh and may I also add - It's Dr K's blog and she can write about whatever she darn well chooses.........


  • 12/21/2010 12:31pm

    I take exception to the notion that I'm always up on a moral high horse, as you imply. What I hope to convey is that too often that moral high road you speak of is a moving target and to showcase where these minefields lie within purr profession. After all, there are plenty of posts where I'm roundly bashed for my ethical choices. You might have just missed them.

  • 12/21/2010 12:38pm

    Yeah, the gender pronoun thing gets under my skin sometimes, too. Thing is, I do like the sound of his/her but I will start to do the fifty-fifty thing. I've also liked s/he and I stopped using it. I'll fo back to that. Thanks for the nudge.

  • 12/21/2010 01:49pm

    Here is my thought:

    Accept the gift. Regardless(you might be "robbing someone of a blessing" a friend used to tell me) of whatever it is.

    If you don't feel comfortable using that gift(IE, gift card for dinner on the town.) then donate it to a local breed rescue/non-breed specific rescue to be raffled off, or donate it someone(Maybe an employee who is having a tough time)(or a client who is disabled and on disability) who would/could use/appreciate it.

    That way, you offend no one, and it helps someone else.

    While I am not a fan of Science Diet, when I work as a tech, I take advantage of the free food that they give. I then donate that food to a guide dog handler, or service dog handler that would not otherwise be able to feed their dog.

    If they don't feed that food, well, they can always, if they opt, take it to petco and swap for what they do feed.

    Also, while on that subject....>VETS: I encourage you, if you have assistance dogs/guide dogs that come into your practice, that you ask your drug reps to donate Heartworm prevention, flea tick prevention, shots, etc....While the IAADP(International Association of assistance dog partners) has that included in their memberships, some on low income/food stamps/disability, can't always afford those expenses for their expensive and highly trained assistance dogs. Some orgs provide that for the dogs that they produce, others cannot, due to resources.

    Just a few thoughts

  • Perks
    12/21/2010 11:51am

    This is has been going on, for a very long time, Heck why not, But it is up to you, if you want to push it, on your patients. Most of us, are checking-out medications. That our Doctors give us or our Pet Kids. Same with the food....so enjoy

  • Freebies
    12/21/2010 11:56am

    Entirely too much "coziness" between medical/vet practitioners and industry. Have seen a friend's doctor precribe a diet for obese people to someone who needed to lose 10 lbs (food needed to be purchased from specific company). Said doctor also doing commercials for a stop smoking medication. Too blatant for me.

    Companies aren't giving this stuff away for free. Just like political campaign donations, they expect something in return. Glad you have drawn a line in the sand.

  • Inquiry of Dr. Khuly
    12/21/2010 12:03pm

    @tpschmitt1 - I get your drift and am always relieved when someone posts on here with the intent to drive discussion rather than just writing suck-up comments.

    One must keep in mind that blogs with advertising are marketing vehicles. Therefore they must acquire and retain eyeballs. So, provocative blog stories are almost essential, otherwise people will be bored, move on and it'll be difficult to get advertisers.

    And I will say that at least she does put it out there. It's amazing how many people aren't aware of all of 'influencing' that goes on the human and animal medical fields.

    DR KHULY - a question: do the manufacturers of ANY products/drugs that veterinarians use provide cash kickbacks, gifts or anything of value based on the amount of their products sold or for switching to their brand, etc?

  • 12/21/2010 12:36pm

    Kickbacks are illegal so that cash or in-kind gifts are a big no-no. vertical integration is not. That means that a specialist can own a general practice that feeds her/his services or a rehab center fed by her/his surgical practice. Does that clarify things or just muddy them more?

  • 12/21/2010 01:09pm

    "Kickbacks are illegal" -- let me ask: by federal law? Because if not, then one would have to ask if the laws have been checked in each state? Are there even many federal laws governing animal matters?

    I do not know about products, etc. but, let me assure you that I live in a state whereby there is NO LAW (or even, State Vet Board Rule) prohibiting vets from paying other vets kickbacks. Meaning, your primary vet can recommend you take your pet to a specialty vet, get paid for having done so and thereby have an incentive to support whatever the specialist recommends. Fellow readers, this is not what you want! It's called: conflict of interest.

    And it's an easy argument that you also don't want what Dr K mentions of there being no prohibitions about a vet having an ownership stake in a general practice as well as a specialty practice and, hey, maybe the testing lab used and/or the food company whose products are used and sold by the practice. Again, conflict of interest. Not pretty.

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  • Patty Khuly, DVM, MBA
    Patty Khuly, DVM, MBA


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