Theo Epstein doesn't have control of Ryan Dempster

This waiting for the Ryan Dempster trade to happen is OUT OF CONTROL!
Or at least it's out of Theo Epstein's control since Dempster has the right to say no to a trade.
Here's what I can figure out:

Theo maybe worked out a trade with Atlanta that would have sent Dempster there for Randall Delgado, but Ryan maybe must have said something like, "I don't wanna go to the Braves, man! I have a house in Scottsdale where I like to stay with my family during Spring Training, and Atlanta trains in Florida!" so Theo probably was like "DAMMIT" if he cusses (I have no idea) and we all think Dempster wants to be in Los Angeles so he can be with old buddy Ted Lilly and do his spring training down the street in Glendale which would apparently be cool with Theo if the Dodgers would part with Zach Lee but of course the rumor is the Dodgers probably don't want to do that so Theo would maybe be happy with Allen Webster but we don't know if the Dodgers even actually offered him or if they'd part with him and probably there are all kindsa other names being tossed around and we're all in limbo.
And we all know how much Thoe covets control. 
This must be why.



I don't understand what Spring Training has to do with anything. Dempster is a free agent at the end of the year.

Better likelihood to resign I guess, there were reports he'd prefer a team that trained in Arizona.

It's a moot point now I guess, but still have a hard time believing that he ever indicated to Cubs that a West Coast team or Dodgers were his only choice.

Maybe he said he'd consider any contender and it never went past that, I suppose we'll never know.

I do know it sucks for the Cubs and good luck getting anything from the Dodgers at this point.

Twitter feeds are indicating the Cubs are taking the stance that they will simply hold on to him unless the offers get better.

Let the Maholm trade rumors begin in earnest!

Go Internet!

Trade him to the White Sox-then he doesn't have to move

Olney tweets that Cubs now intending to offer Demp contract at end of year. Unsurprisingly Dodgers not offering enough.

Padilla says, "nothing going on with the Dodgers."

Dempster warming up in OF prepping for his start.

He's going to get booed, isn't he.

Been a Cub fan for 38 years. This is about par for the course.

In Pittsburgh? Anyway, if Cubs fans boo him, they're idiots, and deserve to wait another 100 years.

Why are they idiots? He's holding the team hostage with his antics, f him.

Umm, because he's been a reliable pitcher for the Cubs since Hendry signed him for a few pennies?

Holding the team hostage? Antics?

Or just using his well-earned collective bargaining rights to figure out what is best for him and his family.

Major league baseball is a business - Dempster owes nothing to the Cubs.

F fans that don't understand that. And F fans that don't understand the importance of family over baseball.

"Major league baseball is a business - Dempster owes nothing to the Cubs."

It's a fair point. But Dempster does it to the Cubs to be fair to them. If he previously told Theo/Hoyer that he'd be fine with a trade to Atlanta, but then backtracked on that, well that certainly isn't fair or right.

Moreover, the baseball is a business is a two way street. As a Cubs fan I might like certain players more than others, but ultimately I pull for the Cubs to win. Dempster's salary is paid from fan support/attendance, merchandise, etc. So it's completely within the right of a fan to be unhappy that his actions are harming the Cubs chance of success in the future. Especially when the future is all this organization has because the present is such a pile of crap.

Lastly, the importance of family here is a reach. I understand his unique family issues, but there are only 2 months left in the season. And it's not like he's home 7 days a week like most people working normal jobs are anyway.

Though I believe she's doing better now, he has a daughter with special medical needs. That's pretty important.

Also, major leaguers spend about 3.5 months away from their families, if you add in spring training. So saying "There are only two months left, so what if he doesn't see his family" is kind of weak.

They spend 3.5 months away from their families, but then have 6 months of uninterrupted time. So I think that more than balances things, as is their ability to bring the family with on road trips if they so choose.

Don't answer if you don't want to, but do you have kids?

Yep. One little guy. I do understand the family concerns - especially if there's a special needs situation - but the players go into the profession knowing that there's a lot of travel involved. It's the tradeoff for the exorbitant salary.

I posted this in a previous thread, but LA has one of the best childrens' hospitals in the country. That could be a big factor in Dempster pushing for LA or bust.

I came from a pretty dysfunctional family. I'd probably take baseball over family almost any time. Ha!

meh, no one is too upset over him using his 10/5 rights, it's the nature that this went down. Now surely their may have been plenty of misinformation out there, but it sure seems like there was some sort of understanding that the Cubs should shop for the best deal to a contender and Atlanta was an amicable place, among some others.

and why is it okay to assume this is about family and not okay to assume other stuff? For all we know he just wants to drink with Ted Lilly. I highly doubt he's going to move his family for 2 months out there anyway.

Of course, only a few know what was said, but the issue is whether Dempster misled the Cubs, not any of that other stuff. And if he did mislead the Cubs, sure no one died because of it, but Cubs fans certainly don't owe him the benefit of the doubt either.

Good point, but since I believe he mentioned doing what's best for his family, it's easy to make the assumption that his family situation plays into it.

For me, it's easier to make that assumption than that he said he was OK with the Braves and then all of a sudden wasn't.

I guess I don't really understand what his family has to do with it unless he plans on either retiring or signing with the White Sox after the season. Unless he does one of those things, there's very little chance his family will be in Chicago after September anyway. So what does it matter if it happens a couple months earlier?*

*No kids yet, and I don't fully understand the complications with his daughter.

Maybe they plan on living in Chicago permanently.

My whole point on bringing up kids is that while athletes know what they're getting into and they're well-compensated, you can't get back the time you miss away from your children. So I have no problem with them minmizing that time if they're in a position to do so.

Right, but my point was that if they plan on living in Chicago permanently he would either have to retire or sign with the White Sox. Otherwise, they'll be somewhere else next season.

If an extra 2 months in Chicago to be with his family is worth damaging his reputation and possibly hurting his FA value, maybe that's... admirable? I don't know.

they recently bought and outfitted a big ass house in chicago. his daughter's medical staff is there (the day staff in-house nurse(s) are important to the family even if it's overkill at this point).

then again, at one point he owned 3 houses in the chicago area. it seems to be where he sinks his loot...bought in a little early on the "buy low/sell higher" real estate gig.

whatever, he can cover it.

So maybe he'll just give the Cubs a steep hometown discount this offseason. If so, great.

if it wasn't for his age i'd agree...he's gotta be looking a 3+ year deal. hell, if he can keep it close to $10m a year, sure...

it doesn't seem like he's lost his passion for the game and is ready to "go home," though.

Ha, I didn't realize they were away. Looks like I'm the idiot.

Also looks like I have had a tepid-at-best relationship with the team this year.

That was me last year. I barely watched more than a few games. They are more interesting this year. More kids, new regime, and I'm sure more changes are afoot.

Still seems likely that he gets traded by the deadline to me...

"Hostage." "Antics." Well, at least Cubs fans are reasonable.

Perhaps it's a bit of hyperbole, but I don't think it's a stretch. As numerous others have said, this didn't happen out of the blue. Trade rumors have been swirling around Dempster for most of the season. It has been widely reported that Theo and Dempster talked about trades/destinations. So it's fair to infer that Theo made a deal with Atlanta believing Dempster would be on board with it. But then when a deal is made, Dempster gets his underwear all twisted because a reporter broke the deal before the Cubs could reach him. And then he proceeds to say he's going to take his time thinking about it - when he's already had lots of time to think about - and then proceed to hamstring the Cubs by basically saying he'll only play for LA. When there's only 2 months left in the season and he can control where he plays afterward. So no, I don't think it's unreasonable to be annoyed by Dempster over this.

I can see being mildly annoyed. But it's not worth a boo.

Not sure I agree....while we might get nothing out of this deal, we also might give us something that could solidify our team in the future. Dempster won't do that and his decision, despite previous discussions with management, is hurting the projected value of the Cubs future.

One question I have -- if we offer him a contract, do we will still get a draft choice if he signs elsewhere? For some reason I thought this was removed in the new CBA.

I meant, it's not worth booing him over. He's been a good pitcher for us, and he is just trying to deal with the situation. He's human. If I'm annoyed by anybody, and I frankly don't get too worked up over Cubbery anymore, it's TheoCorp for not managing the process better.

Wed, 07/25/2012 - 11:20am — springs



SPRINGS: I posted this yesterday on a previous thread:

The Cubs don't HAVE to trade Dempster.

They can hold onto him, and then make the "Qualifying Offer" (a one year guaranteed contract for 2013 with a salary at least equal to the average of the 125 highest MLB salaries in 2012 - expected to be somewhere around $13M) on the 5th day following the conclusion of the 2012 World Series, and if he accepts it (and he will have a week to decide), the Cubs get him for another year (2013) for around $13M, and if he rejects the Qualifying Offer (and he probably would, since post-2012 will probably be the best and possibly last opportunity he will have to get a multi-year mega-million dollar contract), the Cubs get a compensation draft pick immediately after the conclusion of the 1st round in the 2013 June Draft (at this point, it looks to be overall pick #32 or 33), once he signs with a new team.

BTW, in this scenario, the signing team loses its 1st round pick, unless it's picking in the Top 10 of the 1st round, in which case the team loses its 2nd round pick. (This lost draft pick is not assigned to any other club. It just disappears). Also, if a club signs more than one Article XX-B FA who received a "Qualifying Offer" from his former team, the signing team loses picks in subsequent rounds beyond the 1st or 2nd rounds, for as many rounds as the number of Article XX-B MLB free-agents signed who received Qualifying Offers from their former club.


I will add this:

If the Cubs hold onto Dempster and tender him a "Qualifying Offer" post-2012 World Series (see above) and he accepts the offer, his trade value will actually increase during the off-season and Spring Training.

That's because a team cannot receive a compensatory draft pick after tendering a Qualifying Offer to an MLB Article XX-B FA unless the player spends the entire previous regular season with that club, so if Dempster is traded now, the club that acquires him will not be able to get a 2013 draft pick for him if he doesn't sign a contract extension with that club and walks away as a FA post-2012.

So if Dempster is traded now and he does not sign a contract extension with his new club, he would be the proverbial "rent-a-player," and that's almost certainly why the Dodgers don't want to give up a whole lot to get him. The Dodgers probably would much prefer to just take on salary, but the Cubs apparently don't care about that.

If the Cubs keep Dempster and then extend him a "Qualifying Offer" post-2012 World Series and he accepts it, and then he is traded during the off-season or Spring Training (presuming he waives his 10/5 "no trade" rights), the club that acquires him will be able to extend a Qualifying Offer of their own post-2013 WS and receive a 2014 compensatory draft pick if he declines and then subsequently signs with a different club.

And as I said, if the Cubs keep Dempster and extend him a "Qualifying Offer" post-2012 WS and he declines, the Cubs would get a compensatory draft pick (probably overall pick #32 or 33) in the 2013 draft pick, presuming Dempster signs with a new team. And although there will be a few clubs that might not want to give up a 1st or 2nd round draft pick to sign Dempster as a FA, somebody will. All it takes is one GM.

So in other words, lots of people are wringing their hands for, really, no reason at all.

Delgado for 5+ years is far more valuable than 2 POSSIBLE prospects that are 4-5 years away.

it's a decent consolation prize though.

To each their own. I personally am not annoyed about a player doing what he is (a) allowed to do and (b) is what's best for him and his family.

Here's a question for anyone: Ichiro apparently asked to be traded and said something along the lines of wanting to help the Mariners rebuild. Do you think for one second he would've gone to the Yankees if he didn't want to, just so he could help the Mariners?

Baseball is not charity. Players are going to do what's best for them when given the opportunity. Why anyone would get pissed off about that is just puzzling to me.

Ichiro didn't tell Seattle he would be willing to go to the Yankees and then, once a deal was in place, back off.

That is why people are upset -- the story we are getting gives the appearance that Dempster's indecisiveness screwed the Cubs out of a good pitching prospect. (i.e., the story is Dempster knew a trade might happen, was told potential trading partners and gave feedback on where he wanted to go, then refused to accept a trade to a team he already said would be ok).

Whether this is the full story, who knows? But it does paint Dempster in a bad light.

It is all conjecture as to whether Dempster said anything about the Braves, positively or negatively. He has not said anything at all about possibly wanting to go there. It only paints Dempster in a bad light if you believe he said he was amenable to going to Atlanta. And even then, he still has the right to choose/change his mind.

I'll make the assumption that everyone here has made a decision and then reconsidered.

Agreed. But I think it's fair to infer that, in light of Dempster's 10x5 rights, that Theo and/or Hoyer talked to him about where he'd be ok to play, and that he said he would be ok with Atlanta.

Rizzo will be a star in this league. Whew, talk about walking on the edge.

I believe the Cubs would still get a draft pick if they offered Dempster arbitration. However, the risk is he may actually accept it. This could be a real problem. He exercised the option this year when he most likely could have received a multi-year some place else. I don't think it would be certain the Cubs would offer him arbitration. Hopefully, this will all be irrelevant. I wouldn't let the Dodgers hold us up. If they don't offer enough, screw them.

It's not arbitration anymore, it's a 1 year qualifying offer that is at least worth the average of the top 125 contracts. Current math puts that around $12m.

Given that Dempster is currently making $14 million it seem unlikely that he would be willing to take a pay cut after the best season of his career just to stay with the Cubs. If he does great, he is still a good pitcher.

Considering the lack of waves of pitching the Cubs have coming up and money off the books, it certainly won't hurt them if he accepts.

The only thing it would hurt is their ability to get the number 1 pick in next year' draft. Dempster on a one year deal at $12mm is great.

I hope everyone who wanted the Cubs to buy their way into success looks at the Marlins btw at how much of a failure that is when your team is really bad to begin with.

From what I've read in the posts here over the last year or so, I don't think there are many in that camp.

almost none.

the main argument is some of us aren't going to sit here and pretend they can't build AND spend no matter who's in charge...especially when one guy has a history of building nothing but relievers and the other guy has a history of spending that people tend to ignore.

fun fact...

between the end of 2002-2009 season, the Red Sox handed out just 1 contract of longer than 4 years to a 6-year free agent, that being 31 year old JD Drew before the 2007 season. 5/70...fangraphs' valuation had him at worth about $57M over those 5 years, not great, not terrible either. (an aside, Soriano worth $78M to date out of a little less than $100M Cubs have paid so far). They also caught a ton of flack for not resigning popular players such as Pedro and Damon.

There was the Dice-K deal for 6 years, but we all know that 6 years was unique as to cover his pre-arb and arbitration years.

from 2009 and beyond, they signed Lackey (5/82.5), Crawford (7/142) and in a trade and eventual sign Gonzalez (7/154).

Rizzo's HR looked effortless.

Absolutely. Like he was just swatting a fly or something. He was quick on that one and must have recognized the pitch and location very early.

Tony Four Bags

Doug Padilla‏@ESPNChiCubs

Blow by blow on the Demp meltdown after he was pulled: Threw down the cooler lid, threw the cooler, threw his sports drink against the wall.

The sports drink was probably not the one with the Jack Daniels in it

Allegedly Z, er I mean Dempster, just threw a fit in the dugout after being lifted.

Just go break your hand while you're at it.

Just wow.

Paul Sullivan ‏@PWSullivan
Looks like Dempster was throwing cooler lid and bottle in dugout after getting removed. Not exactly a Z caliber tantrum.

Jeez, demp... pick up a bat and smash something.


Smokies playing this afternoon. After ending a 34-game home-run drought last night, Junior Lake has a couple of two-run bombs today.

I haven't followed his performance too closely, but he reminds of Soriano a bit in that he's either feast or famine. He's hitting, or he's godawful.

OPS by month

May: .855
June: .704
July: .634

24.1% K rate, 6.6% BB rate

seems they figured out his delayed steal trick as well, 12 SB, 9 CS.

Lake didn't play until May 6 due to some sort of back injury. He may just not be healthy this year.

Or he may just be not hitting extraordinarily well, which wouldn't be unusual for him.

certainly was healthy enough in May...

Healthy enough to steal? He was 3 of 8 in SBs in may. (Last year he was 38 of 44.) Maybe he has not been himself this year or maybe, as you say, they ambushed him on those delayed steals.

It's not like Cubs were sending Dempster to Siberia, errr, Minnesota with three years left on a contract. Thats really the spirit of the 10/5 rule so you dont get your life thrown in the crapper. But no, they proposed sending him to one of the best franchises in the country, huge fan base, cable tv Mecca, competitive, a team that valued him. A team he may or may not have okay'd, in a pennant race, and with two or so months until free agency. It's the way he handled the whole situation, it's not his choice that is the real problem. He has the right to veto. No problem. But not the right to be an ass and not get a lash back on his reputation. Which is where he is most certainly headed now. Perhaps irrevocably - he woke up from his nap and said: man, I want somma' that mojo Dwight Howard has going on down there in Orlando! I read an article citing that a true professional might even call the club and thank them for the offer, feel honored in having a nice price paid for your services, in the way of a top prospect coming over for him. What does he do? "I might decide in the next week." It's as if he had some painful childhood trauma unleashed and was waiting to "be the hammer" and just lost his frickin' mind. Truly baffling. I wonder if his agent had any say, or just got diva'd off the phone when Dempster lost his shit. Wow.

Ryan Dempster said an odd thing yesterday.

When the deal with the Braves broke in the media and Dempster was asked about it, he said he had a week to decide.

Obviously that was not a deadline given to him by the Cubs or the Braves.

I suspect what he was thinking was that he would much prefer to go to the Dodgers and wants the Cubs to do whatever they can to make that happen, but if it gets to July 31st (next Tuesday) and the Cubs and Dodgers have not been able to come to an agreement, THEN he would accept a trade to the Braves (or possibly some other team).

Ergo, he thinks he has a week to decide,

Except it appears that the Braves want him to decide right now, or they will look elsewhere.

By leaking the information that they are willing to hold onto Dempster and tender him a Qualifying Offer post-2012 World Series, the Cubs are putting pressure on Dempster to accept a trade right now (even if it's not to the Dodgers).

The last thing Dempster wants is to be given a Quailfying Offer post-2012, because (as was discussed above) if he accepts it's just a one-year deal (even if it's for $13M), and if he declines the offer, any club interested in signing him would know that they will lose a 1st or 2nd round pick if they sign him, thus depressing his value in the FA market at a point in his career when it might very well be the last, best opportunity for him to get a multi-year mega-million contract.

But if Dempster were to accept the trade to Atlanta, he'd only have to be there for two months (or three months if the Braves get into the playoffs), and then he could blissfully walk away as a totally unrestricted free-agent post-2012, and sign with the Dodgers (or any other MLB team).

That was truly bizarre. How could you be around this league that many years and think a trade would stay on the table for a week? And at the trade deadline to boot! I heard that as well, and was flabbergasted at his gall, naïveté or whatever it is, perhaps a break from reality. It doesn't make any sense. I wonder if he or his agent is aware of the publicity nightmare they are facing if he returns to wrigley as a Cub ...

This is better than the new episodes of Dallas.

From Trib:

By "down the road," Dempster meant a few days.  Dempster said he'll have tonight and Thursday's off day to look at "a couple different things.. to make the best decision." 

"I'm going to take a plane ride and try to enjoy my off-day (Thursday), if that's possible," he said. "Then kind of see where I'm at from there."

To which I say, does Dempster understand that if there are no offers on the table, that he doesn't get to make a decision?

He clearly doesn't. ...or maybe he knows that the public statements are just posturing, and the deal is not dead...

How do you know that there are no offers on the table?

Phil, I think your absolutely reading this the right way, and all the more reason for the Cubs to play hardball with Dempster and the Dodgers. Unless the Dodgers want to part with Webster, Z. Lee, or some other prospect acceptable to Theo, I would 100% let Ryan's agent know the Cubs will be tendering him a 1-yr qualifying offer for 2013. And as for the Braves, Ryan..........tick-tock.

Fuck Dempster. Poor baby.

Can we please stop pretending we know anything about the Dempster situation? The only thing that seems likely at all is someone at the Braves organization leaked the info. Past that, blaming either Dempster or Theo seems pretty silly with the paucity of facts we have.

sure, but the Cubs had the most to lose here if a trade doesn't happen or leak destroyed the trade. It makes sense they would have handled the situation with the utmost care to ensure that a deal happened to Dempster's standards. And even Dempster said they for the most part were great at keeping him abreast of the situation.

There's certainly a lot of conjecture and guessing going around, but well, welcome to the Internet and baseball.

I personally don't take any of this seriously, it's just fun to talk about it.

Well, I seriously take all of it personally. And it'll be more fun for me to talk about when the cubs are the buyers and people are wringing their hands over giving up (minor league pitcher) for a 2-month rental.

I'll have a triple meat sub sandwich with that green stuff on it from over there...looks like avocado from here. Sure would be great if it was avocado...but let me think about it. Give me a week. What? It might spoil by then? Can't you just put it in the ice box until I get back to you?

Morosi tweet that there's at least one team that inquired about Soriano.

"Can we have him for free?"
"Sorry to bother you"

They said no without even finding out what the free thing was. Maybe it was a free taco coupon. I'd certainly think about a that.

Nobody mentioned a free "thing". There was no prize in that cereal box. Soriano and all of his owed money for nothing.

I'll play the contrarian/devil's advocate here and ask the question. What's the rush in trading Soriano? He's playing halfway decently and while he's in his decline phase he could certainly keep this level of production up for the next year or two. It seems by most reports that the Cubs wouldn't get a very good prospect or two and would have to eat most of his remaining salary, so it's not like they'd save much in the way of money, and hell payroll shouldn't be an issue either in light of the additional salaries coming off the books after this year. It's not like Soriano is blocking someone younger from playing. So they may as well hold onto him and hope is trade value increases and they can get something for him as his closer is closer to expiring.

The Cubs have bigger problems than Alf. He's under contract and producing, so other teams that want him for peanuts can go screw themselves. I think Alf plays out his contract here thru 2014.

Who is he blocking ?


Just a free, then?

Two more years. Jesus.

Twitter box above showing Dempster refuting cooler abuse-

craigcalcaterra RT @RyanDempsterFDN THERE IS NO GATORADE COOLER dont know where this info came from!

Caught little of blurb on espn radio saying if Dempster stats and accepts Cubs one year offer he " will be moved tO bullpen".

I missed context and if it was Levin report

If that report was serious I think it means Theo is pissed and gone to war. Flat out saying "Dempster, f%ck you!" and I love it.

that sounds absolutely retarded.

aka, i kinda think that might not be legit. it's very combative...FA's notice that kind of thing.

I hope and doubt that's true. As much as we can be angry about this (and I'm sure Theo is) you can't make decisions like this based on anger. I seriously doubt it's true.

I don't know if it is true. But if it is - it is not anger. It might be Theo or Jed saying: "We can't move you now, you blew our deal and leverage. We ARE going to get compensated for you because that's how we do business. So know now we are not giving you to the Dodgers for nothing and we are going to make an offer you will likely not accept (1yr 12 mil bullpen) so you are not on this team next year and we get compensation. We thought you were a reasonable professional, but that's irrelevant now"

At worst I see it as a desperate attempt to scare Dempster into going to Atlanta now - as if it was still salvageable.

you don't do that, though. that's a guy's career.

you don't force a guy that signed with the cubs this long out like that...especially when he handled himself with humor and class for many years. this isn't hanley ramirez...

GMs don't make threats like that (well, smart ones)...and ultimately dumpster could call their bluff because if anyone is stupid enough to actually put him in the pen just to make a point (whatever that point might be) they need to be fired asap.

fwiw, i don't believe it at makes no sense. it was probably just someone musing about something on the radio off the cuff...i hope.

They may have been talking about a Olney tweet from this morning:

Buster OlneyVerified‏@Buster_ESPN

About whether CHC could be at risk Dempster would accept '13 qualifying offer: They could always make it clear they're putting him in 'pen.

sounds like it. meh, no harm.

espn1000 is attributing the bullpen threat to Onley.

found the tweet only speculative-

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN


That makes about zero sense.

I think i pretty much nailed the Atlanta GM response to Dempster saying "It will take him much of the next week to decide."

In the nicest possible way the Braves told Dempster to fuck off and moved on, not wanting to pursue a player who doesn't want to be on their team.

I don't care if it was leaked early or not before he made his decision. What you absolutely don't do is say its gonna take a week or 2 make up your mind.

Besides Dempster gave a list to Theo of the teams he would prefer (and was kept in the loop during the whole process) and Dempster still said no when one of those teams agreed to a trade for him. Why the hell even give the list to Theo when your not gonna honor it in good faith anyways.

If the Braves are so turned off by a guy not making a decision right away, they probably didn't want him that much.

You still have NO IDEA if the Braves were on this alleged list.

Ummm you might want to read some of the articles relating to the trade. Like i said Dempster was kept up to speed about the whole process and he gave a list to Theo. Do you think Theo pursued a deal with Atlanta and agreed to a trade with Atlanta when Atlanta was not on the list? I don't think so. So Atlanta was clearly on the list and Dempster still said no.

Again don't give Theo a list of teams you want to be traded to when your not going going to honor it anyways. Its just a giant waste of time and resources when he could be working on other things.


I'm really, really, REALLY hoping that Theo can multi-task.

Please provide a link to a story that said (a) Dempster definitely gave a list and (b) that the Braves are on it. Because if so, yes, I definitely missed that. All I've read is conjecture. I'm glad you have the inside scoop, though.

My take -- uninformed as it is -- is that Dempster probably said he wanted to go to L.A. but would consider a trade to another contender. When it was the Braves that it turned out to be, he reconsidered. Doesn't make him a dishonorable douche.

Saw this today:

“In this case, from my understanding — and I’m only getting it second-hand from the Cubs,’’ said Wren, “they had a meeting with him a couple weeks ago and laid it out, and the primary two suitors were us and the Dodgers. And he has positive things to say about both, and he had a slight preference for the Dodgers because of [former Cubs teammate] Ted Lilly."

First time I've seen of anyone ON THE RECORD talking about alleged preferred destinations.

So if that's true, I stand corrected. He still has the right to change his mind, whether anyone likes it or not.

I saw that yesterday. I don't think Dempster has handled the situation well at all, but I also don't think that it is worth getting bent out of shape about as a Cubs fan. But then, I don't think much of anything about sports is worth getting bent of shape about. It's just entertainment. Hell, even this is entertainment, in a soap opera kind of way.

I agree he has a right to change his mind. It sounds like that's exactly what he did. We can't have any idea what goes on with his daughter, and what kind of daily toll that takes on him. What seemed like a good idea yesterday may, as it descends upon him, not seem so great today. As a 10-5 guy he feels entitled to take advantage of that hard earned right. I don't blame him. He could have handled it a little better, but God knows I go through life doing things that are a lot more questionable than this. I don't know many people who haven't.

video of Dempster's post-game, nothing new

Junior Lake heating up with 2 more HR's, 4 rbi and a walk in a 7-5 Tenn win over Jacksonville

By the time this is over, Dempster is gonna wish he was someone more sympathetic like Lee Elia or that Bartman fellow.

Isn't Ron Santo, one of the most beloved Cubs of all time, the first player to invoke his 10 and 5 rights? Cubs had a deal with the Angels but Ron didn't want to play on the west coast. The Cubs lost leverage and were forced to take what they believed was a lesser deal with the White Sox. Ron cited family reasons. It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but no one thinks that Ron was a selfish player who didn't care about the Cubs.

That is cool if true! But I personally might have been a little selfishly miffed if Dempster had just said 'no' and vetoed the trade. But ultimately I would respect that right. As has been covered in several other posts, the issue here (for some) is how Dempster has reacted and the various bizarre statements he has made and postures he has taken (not the fact that he exercised his 10/5 rights). . . . To this day he has not made a decision on anything and keeps referring to having more time etc. General sense of being miffed, pissed, irritated with the media, teams, etc. while harboring an irrational sense of entitlement regarding a pretty good and very short term situation. Hard to explain if you can't see it. And I respect the fact that it doesn't bother many people here or is not obvious. But for those who can see it, it seems he is seething with intensity and passive aggression.

Is that the same thing....If Dempster had included the Braves on his list of approved teams?
Also...Ron Santo was a Cub for 14 seasons...Dempster for 9. Although these days, 9 seasons is a long time in one uniform.

Hard to compare what Santo meant to the Cubs with Dempster. Santo was a high profile long time Cub that the fans liked. Dempster was with other teams, then joined the Cubs and has had good success, though also many difficulties and fan disgruntlement.

The sad part for me is that I will now remember Dempster as the guy who pitched the worst game of his career in the most important start of his Cubs career, and as the guy who elected to exercise his right to block a trade that would have netted the Cubs valuable assets.

This is of course my problem not his, and if I were in his shoes I would certainly put my family's needs over the Cubs, but I can't help the way I feel.

he once blew a 4-run lead versus the mets as a closer, I thought a lynch mob would be waiting for him at the airport.

A game in the middle of July for a last place team who may end up with the worst record in baseball if things go right was the most important start of his Cubs career?

I know we love hyperbole on Internet forums, but that one dusted off the word "hyperbole" and gave it a glorious new lease on life.

Think he was referring to the playoffs vs. the Dodgers.

What Tito said.

Oh, okay. Ya, that was not a good day.

I can understand the family sentiment that you and others discuss. It'd be an issue for me as well.

What I don't think is consistent here is that family would be an issue with going to Atlanta, but somehow not with going to LA?

going back a couple threads (and paraphrasing WiscGrad), I think it is beyond unprofessional that he to this date has yet to make a decision (just left the Braves, a great organization with whom he has a relationship, hung out to dry), AND the unprofessional part is that he somehow hadn't thought through his options with his family and agent, and had a plan of attack. If I was a multi-million dollar corporation (as an example, and he brings in multi millions per year) with a team of business officers (in this case, myself wife and agent) and there were two months left on my funding AND A WEEK TO DECIDE THE PLAN, I had a massive public reputation that effected my business and two suitors, and public had been speculating about two plans of action for months . . . It might be nice to have a plan of attack, a contingency plan and a public relations plan. Especially if my business had been operating 14yrs and 9 years in the same location. Rather than waking from a nap and going into asshole mode for a week.

Look, I can see both sides here. The player earned their 10 and 5 rights. It was collectivelt bargained for.

But from what I have read, Theo tried tomaccommodate the player's wishes. Timing is absolutely everything for a GM.

The player went back on what he had agreed to.

To me, that is unreasonable, and unethical when the GM worked hard to acquire a potentially valuable resource for the futire of the team, while at the same time finding a winner with a history of winning on the part of the player.

I get the family shit. I have three kids. I also know, as was stated, that being a ball player is like having five months off. FIVE. In no way is it unreasonable to accept a position in a city with a major airport in it, for two fucking months to help the team that picked you off the scrap heap and stood by you in every way. This includes helping put together Ryan's Foundation, incredible medical support, etc.

For my fan money, this guy failed me in every big game opportunity. Including walking the entire North Side and serving up a Grand Slam to James Loney causing my 13 year old at the time, to hate him wver since, in the biggest game of his life as was said.

I would surmise that having a player do this to Theo was not something he is accustomed to. And I can surmise he is not pleased by it.

Amen! Word for word.

I can sympathize. But, then, I would summarize the disappointment I felt when I heard he hadn't signed off on the Braves deal as follows: "Wah wah wah. Things didn't go the way I wanted them to."

Okay, I'm not so glad that i saw this. Also, is it just me, or does it seem like everyone in that scrum is trying to 'get in position', including those in the other group not next to Schumaker? Right up there with the 'reverse chalupa' footage of Aram and Izturis' intimate moment from a few years ago...

I didn't think I could hate the Cardinals more. Fist raping assholes.

I sometimes do a Google news search for "cubs" and am accustomed to hearing all the latest about tiger cubs, bear cubs and the two 3-month-old cheetah cubs at the National Zoo.

A headline this morning confused me, though: "3 Bear Cubs Rescued From Dumpster‎."

I pictured him walking in the woods and, startled by some bear cubs, throwing a water cooler at them.

Hahaha, or better yet, Zambrano dives out and deflects the water cooler from hitting the bear cubs!

FWIW, I asked Rosenthal via Twitter if Braves were definitively on Dempster's list and if so, did Dempster renege:

"Don't know exact list. It would NOT be reneging. He has every right to go to his first choice only."

Yes but we are fans, not attorneys. Wtf do we care what rosenthal thinks? Most talking heads have said whet he has a right to veto, again it's not the issue and it's old news. (Ironicall he hasn't done even that). We may have rights to burn the American flag, or stand our ground in Florida, . . . but I wouldn't do so without expecting unintended consequences. As fans (derived from fanatic of course) we have a right to boo the living fuck out of someone who is a douche. Nobody is threatening to sue him that I know of. Just highly disappointing to some like me. I honestly envy you Tito if you think he's handling it well. Not kidding, I wish I thought so! Rock on!

Tito vs Carlito!!


My point in asking Rosenthal was more to find out about "the list." I figured if an insider like him had an insight, it might be good to know. If he had said, "Yes, can confirm he said he'd go to Braves," I'd have found that worth knowing.

For sure, Tito! Btw the Brewers are doing an amazing job with shopping Grienke. How much would they love grabbing a Braves Delgado package and throwing him at the Cubs a few times a year for the next half decade!! Woo woo!

if they can get an extension for Greinke, think they'd be willing Teheran and Delgado

I hope Texas sneaks in there and scoops them! And never count out the White Sox . . . I have a weird feeling they could get him. Do they have any chips left though?

Meaning Grienke going to Texas or Sox . . . Instead of Braves

Hope for the Angels. Texas at one point was at least interested in Garza - but not lately.

If Dodgers landed Grienke would Atlanta take Dempster? After the public relations disaster this week?

There have been reports that Atlanta would still consider Dempster. But I have my doubts.

Getting Dempster to say yes could still be a problem as well.

Stark now saying:
Jayson Stark‏@jaysonst
Execs from clubs that have spoken with L.A. say #Dodgers projecting air of optimism they can find a way to make Ryan Dempster trade w/ #Cubs

Kinda sucks ... Possibly. It is absolutely in Dodgers' best interest to string Dempster along. If he is obsessed with going there, he will not start changing his own expectations and consider other options. Remaining obstinant and leaving the Cubs few options or leverage ... as it nears the deadline. May not land the Dodgers Dempster, but it sure keeps his price low and that of other teams trying to deal with Dodgers if it appears they want him.

@NotTomRicketts tweets:

"Somebody gently wake Dempster up from his nap & tell him in soothing tones. RT @CarrieMuskat: RHP Jairo Asencio has been outrighted to Iowa."

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