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  Topic: Luskin: ID vs Evolution Predictions, Responses etc.< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Posts: 319
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 14 2003,15:45   

Luskin's article:

II discussion:

I'm beginning to think that Casey Luskin's a YEC.  He never declared himself in an email debate I had with him awhile ago, and now he says:


Indeed, many forms of "creation science" make a variety of predictions which are empirically testable. One example is that young earth creationism predicts that various observable lines of evidence will be found to show that rocks, the oceans, and the solar system are young. Regardless of whether or not such evidence is found, the theory makes scientific predictions which can be tested in the natural world, and thus qualifies the young earth hypothesis as a falsifiable and testable scientific theory.

The basic answers to Luskin's points are listed below.  The quotes are from his last table, I've inserted 'Ev', 'ID', and ''Fact''.


1. Biochemical complexity
Ev: High information content machine-like irreducibly complex structures will NOT be found.
ID: High information content machine-like irreducibly complex structures will be found.
'Fact': High information content machine-like irreducibly complex structures are commonly found.

As has been discussed ad nauseum, gradual evolutionary process can, and regularly do, produce intricate systems with multiple required parts.  The most important mechanism is simply change-of-function, emphasized by Darwin and every biological authority since, and supported by numerous examples.

The Origin of "Information" via natural causes

immune system evolution

Evolution of multiple-parts-required pathways

Co-option/change of function

Evolving Immunity

Irreducible Complexity Demystified


2. Fossil Record
Ev: Forms will appear in the fossil record as a gradual progression with transitional series.
ID: Forms will appear in the fossil record suddenly and without any precursors.
'Fact': Forms tend to appear in the fossil record suddenly and without any precursors.

There are plenty of transitional fossils:

'Punk Eek' is an application of Mayr's theory of allopatric speciation to paleontology, and applies only to species-species transitions, which are indeed commonly (but not always, studies of good fossil records often put the number at 50-50) absent.  Gould himself has said that for transitions between higher taxonomic levels there are plenty of transitionals.

A classic example is the horse fossil record, where some species "microevolve" and some appear abruptly:

The Cambrian 'Explosion', OTOH, is probably mostly the result of the emergence of large, hard-bodied critters from their microscopic, wormlike ancestors, see:


3. Distribution of Molecular and Morphological Characteristics

Ev: Genes and functional parts will reflect those inherited through ancestry, and are only shared by related organisms.
ID: Genes and functional parts will be re-used in different unrelated organisms.
'Fact': Genes and functional parts often are not distributed in a manner predicted by ancestry, and are often found in clearly unrelated organisms.

Luskin quote-mines a whole bunch of quotes on incongruence, but neglects to mention that the big picture is that of congruence with a high degree of statistical confidence:

Quote-mining with molecular phylogeny:

The major exceptions only occur in (1) the well-accepted symbiotic theory for the origin of eukaryotes, and (2) prokaryotes, where we know **on independent evidence** that Lateral Gene Transfer is a common event.


4. Genetic Code

"Junk" DNA




Charlie d explains it quite well here:





and this (M. muntjak):




PS: Oh yeah.  Luskin accidentally switched his 'predictions' regarding junk DNA.

PPS: The problem Luskin has with creating a "falsifiable" ID theory, when he explicitly says that he is open to a mix-n-match view, where if A is proven to be a result of evolution, he can accept that and instead assert that B, or C is a result of ID, shall be left for others to explore.

Edited by niiicholas on Aug. 14 2003,15:49

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