[Edu-sig] "Croquet Project" and Python ?

francois schnell francois.schnell at free.fr
Wed Oct 20 21:38:44 CEST 2004

Arthur a écrit :

>Francois writes -
>>I say all that because you guys are rare...
>>In the open source community I sadly find that  the percentage of people
>>intersed in the vital field of education (like me and you) is pretty,
>>pretty, small.
>>I actualy didn't  find any "community" able to reach the critical mass
>>to strongly influence any national curiculum in regard to programming
>>with kids.
>I've despaired some time ago as to the possibility of reaching the kind of
>consensus necessary to reach "critical mass" in this realm.  Within the
>small group that takes an interest in the general area, views are wildly
>divergent regarding anything that begins to approach specifics. 

That's why I like things which are not too langage, or single community, 
centered or that can be done in different languages like croquet will 
maybe offer.
"The best language is the one you use" they say, and it's a never ending 
religion we'll never probably change.

>I, for example, have real interest in programming's integration into a
>general education curriculum and almost no interest in programming and
>"kids". That is, beyond hoping that kids become generally well prepared for
>undertaking this kind a study when they are post-kid,  by for example,
>learning a good deal about music and gaining a good grasp of mathematical
>fundamentals while they are still kids.
I'm not sure I understood everything there but I believe it's too late 
to interest youngs to science and programming when they are post-kids:

Kids always ask "Why this ?" "Why that ?" they are all  scintists in 
their natural state.
They loose quickly their interest when they realise that adults often 
give stupid and non-scientific answers or lie most most of the time 
(because of their ignorance).
It's really a huge waste because for the first time kids are more 
"intelligent" than adults (at least concerning technology).

We'll soon change or digital clock here for the winter time. I'm sure 
you know who will do that very naturally ?

Seymour Papert explains that kids needs tools "to think with" obviously, 
nowadays  kids are born with them.
Some video-games for example needs to master a system with hundreeds of 
variables, and it's because it's hard to do that they like it. It's 
"hard-fun" and programming can be very hard-fun. They hate just fun 
"things" since they become so quicky boring.

Since they are so ICT-Computer-letterate I think it's a good idea to use 
it when they are still kids to do sciences ans programming and not wait 
too long.

>I happen to garden.  And like watermelon.  But the growing season here in
>the Northeast US is short.  So this year I nurtured some seed indoors, and
>transplanted them outside as soon as I thought they could survive the late
>spring temperatures. But by late July it was impossible to distinguish these
>plants from those grown from seeds sowed directly in the ground early in
>July when the ground had warmed.  
>I don't see any harm having been done by my efforts to force the issue, but
>neither can I say anything was accomplished.



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