Iraq and its Kurds

Not so happy

The new strength of Iraq’s central government is alarming the Kurds

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Readers' comments


Harry T

No matter what happens the Kurds will lose out at the end, the fascist Turks and their superiority complex will not let any sort of economic, political or cultural freedom reign over the Kurds no matter which side of the border they may reside. The Turks actually believe they live in a modern society a society that oppresses all minority, and freedom of speech and any descent that may put a blemish on their horrid and blood stained history, as if they actually think the world is as clueless as they are.


A few years back i read a book called "Ottoman Centuries" I recomend it for people interested in Turkeys history. If I remember correctly it stops after WW1.

Fahrettin Tahir

At the beginning of the 19th century large areas of the Balkans, Crimea, Crete and Caucasia then belonging to Turkey hat Moslem population majorities. These areas being Europe the Christian powers of Europe led by Russia killed 5 Million of these people and forced the rest to emigrate to present day Turkey so that only Christians would be left in Europe. After the Balkan war 1912 the turks were sure that Anatolia –today’s Turkey was next and forced out the Armenians killing aroung half a million of the 1,5 millions in 1915. Also after 1920 when Greece invaded Anatolia around 300 000 Greeks were killed, at the same time around 2,5 Million Anatolian Moslems died. These are the events which are called genocide by the Armenians and Greeks. Nobody calls the mass killing of Moslems genocide and people fight about the G-word.

An the whole business is not yet over, in the 1960ies Greeks started the Cyprus issue by slaughtering the Turks of cyprus, in the 1990ies we could all see in out color TV sets what the serbs were doing to the Moslems. Has the West wanted to stop them, they could have done so within several hours.

There never was any mass killing of Moslems by Moslems. The Kurdish issue is for Turks simply that of a group of people who love fighting and try to solve any problem they meet by fighting a war. This led led to oppression, and further war. In the 1980ies the Kurdish areas of turkey started to enjoy slow but beginning economic growth, European countries which would prefer Turkey to be weakened financed a terrorist war against Turkey and effectively stopped economic growth and that more Kurdish anger. Presentyl the Kurdish terrorist PKK trains in Iraq and Turks are convinced the Us is using them to blackmail turkey into accepting her policies.

My personal feeling is that Kurdish terrorism is a consequence of some Kurds inability to operate within the parliamentary system. You will know the weaknesses of such a system from the US, but until now nobody has anything better. They are impatient and think by killing Turks they can blackmail them into giving the Kurdish nationalist whatever they want. In reality in annoys people who then escalate the fight. This is the present Turkish impasse.


The EZLN is more of an indiginous rights movement.
A few hundred years ago Part of Guatemala and part of the State of Chiapaz Mexico were their own indpendent country. Who knows it could happen again!


ceezmad, does that part of Mexico really have a separatist movement? kuddos on the post


I agree with Eyes, the Kurds get very little press here in America by mainstream media. The west doesn't seem to be actively pushing for any independent Kurd state as destabilization of the region is antithetical to our purposes there. I think this is evidenced by a previous statement made about the US assuaging enemies and ignoring friends: we're quick to try and create a Palestinian state because we hope it will help to stabilize a volatile region and protect Israel from further violence and vitriol. This isn't necessarily protecting Israel's own interests, economic and otherwise. But we see it as a fair sacrifice (kind of?). And umm, Fahrettin, Turkey has a few known instances of genocide aimed at the Kurds. at both ends of the last century (someone correct me if i'm wrong). The PKK exists for a reason, same as the IRA and other nationalists movements--generally because they aren't being treated fairly (this isn't to say that terrorism by any means is justified--it isn't). But these things don't spring out of nowhere. Oh, and the comment about the hundreds of thousands of muslims who died in the Balkans...singling out a religion in those wars is kind of moot since Muslims are the majority there. No matter who the west sided with Muslims would've been killed...I mean, there was Muslim on Muslim violence going on in the first place so it becomes kind of an unneeded statistic. but, I do admire your civility in all of this as you appear to want to convince and not anger. hopefully i don't come off as patronizing.


Hey how about:
An Independent Catalonia
Independent Quebec
Independent Hawaii
Independent Tibet
Independent Kurdistan
Independent Mayaland (part of mexico, Guatemala).
What else, Kossovo (this already happenned right?)
Independent Pashtoonland

P.S. I think that the West bank should be given to Jordan and then the country should be re-named "Royal Palestinian Repoblic of Jordan". they could trow an "islamist" in there if they want.

Fahrettin Tahir

Eyes clouded

The affair is "one sided" because Kurdish nationalists expect more than the West can give them under the circumstances.

The Middle East spent the 500 years to 1917 (British invade Jerusalem) as relatively peaceful provinces of the Ottoman Empire. After that point, when oil got all important, the British designed the present states of the Middle East so that they would be instable and permanently at war, so that Britain and later the US got endless opportunities to intervene. So plunge the Middle East into endless wars is simply what they already did do.

Diplomacy serves a purpose, in this case cheap oil. Now that there is increasing resistance in the Middle East against this type of politics it made sense to introduce another actor so the game can continue.

American defeat in the Iraqi war is now forcing them to rethink their strategy, which is why the Kurdish nationalist approach is in danger of becoming a one sided affair.

There are a lot of Kurds in Turkey who share Turkish priorities in politics. The majority of the Turkish Kurds vote for the government party. So I try not use the word Kurdish as a synonym for Kurdish nationalist. It is my firm belief that they could have quite a lot of what they desire if the majority population would not percieve them as serving the interests of far away countries. This is by the way one more reason for the West not to put too much faith in Kurdish nationalism. It could easily turn to islamist nationalism hit the West harder than Turks or Arabs ever would.

Eyes Unclouded

@Fahrettin- the article specifically says the Kurds have a "one-sided love affair" with America and the west who don't seem to care for them, that would seem to undercut unsupported statements like the "whole West supports independence for Kurdistan".I don't see how the west is trying to undercut (currently freindly) Turkey and plunge the middle east into "endless wars", be realistic that would be bad diplomacy and business, oil and otherwise.

Fahrettin Tahir


There is no Ergenekon group. It is an Islamist conspiracy to criminalize secularists. Under misuse of anti terrorism laws, people are locked up for years without concrete proof of anything. Honest citizen are afraid to talk on the telephone because the big brother government listens and locks them up for not liking the Islamists.

Turkish army does not kill civilians only armed terrorists. If there were no armed terrorists nobody would get hurt.

Fahrettin Tahir


The whole West supports independence for Kurdistan. This would weaken Turkey and Iran, the latter by inciting the other non farsi groups like Azeri Turks to independence and ending Iran in her present form. Turkey would remain rich but no longer a middle eastern country. Independent Kudistan would then, so the West hopes collaborate with the West in endless wars against the Turks, Arabs and whatever reamins of Iran and so the West could continue their policies of divide and rule. And keep stealing the oil. They just do not have the military might to force this independence against the combined power of Iran, Turkey and the Arab world, in sum around 400 million people.


Does no one find it strange that there is no concern for an independant Kurdistan the way so many support an independant Palestine? If anyone deserves support, it is surely the Kurds who are far, far, more deserving of a state than the Palestinians. Don't count on America, of course, since America's policy is to appease her enemies & screw her friends. This will only be accentuated under the appeasement-minded Obama.


first of all the babies and civilian killed in Kurdistan are killed under supervision of Chief of Staff General Ilker Basbug by turkish army thugs like Ergenekon group and others.

PKK never kills its own people because afterall PKK get its support from Kurds. PKK only target turkish military.

and if you say why there is no welsh group that attack british army! the answer is clear because UK is a democratic country. welsh MPs would not be jailed and considered terrorists if they spoke welsh in westminister,,while in Turkey were most turkish politicians superficially seems to have modern ideiologies but when it come to Kurdish they share the same faciest views as attaturk.

hope you now understand why PKK attacks turkish army!

Fahrettin Tahir

Have you ever heard of any Welsh terrorists slaughtering innocent Welsh civilians? Murdering babies? That is one of the differences between Welsh people and Kurdish PKK terrorists.


Layla zana has never send her greetings to the PKK.this is a lie..all she said I work for harmoney and brotherhood of Kurds and Turks but his crime was that he said it in Kurdish but not turkish,,

this statment didnot comply with attaturk's facist principle of 1 state, 1 flag , 1 nation which never worked.

Turkey is a multicultural country just like united kingdom. therefore the flag should be changed to a uinion flag and languages should be optional (like in wales).

Kurdish language and culture has survived for 5000 years a few corrupted Turkish politicians can not get rid of it,

Fahrettin Tahir


Leyla Zana got into parliament with help from the social democrats because the Europeans were telling Turkey they had to have pro PKK people in parliament to show the Kurdish nationalist that there is a parliamentary alternative to terrorism. Whe she was there she used her right to speak in parliament to send her greetings to the PKK. PKK was overjoyed because they saw PKK MPs as a victory of their terrorism and were thus motivated to become even more aggressive. This was the opposite of what was intended. The Turks locked her up to show that they were not collapsing under terrorist pressure. After a couple of years she got out again with European pressure and openly sided with the PKK. The whole affair served to convince ever more Turks and Kurds that the west was supporting terrorizm against Turkey. So we have Turkey drifting away from the West. The only question is if this will be an Islamist drift towards Arabs or a secularist drift towards China and Russia.
So much for the Sakharov prize. Maybe it should be renamed the Wlassow prize. Another famous Russian who tried to introduce human rights to Russia by collaboration with a western country.


I am a journalist who followed Kurdish Turkish conflict in great details and seen how western media covering up Turkish crimes for pure economic reasons.


my type!!!! I am not even a kurd!!!

Turkish governemnt sentences to 20 years for a language..the way Turkish government sells it!! it uses a weird turkish logic which is, if your are speaking Kurdish you must be a PKK. This logic has forced many Kurds to become PKK supporter. because Turkey gave them no any other options. as in the case of Layla Zana - the EU Sakharov Prize winner she has nothing to do with PKK but turkey accused her for being a PKK based on speaking Kurdish and sentenced her to 20 years but she was freed after turley was subjected to EU pressure.



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