A brush with Jehovah’s Witnesses

I’m at home all week. I have a new job starting in San Antonio next Monday, but for now I’m just cooling my heels. I’ve been living in my sister’s house for a while, planning to move to an apartment in a couple of months.


They were looking for “Katherine,” and when I said there was no Katherine here the older lady said that perhaps they had the wrong house. I said “You might be talking about my sister, Keryn.” Then she asked if we were believers in God in this house, and I said “No, we’re pretty much all atheists.” She lit up and said “Well that’s great, we love talking to people of all religions and, uh… people of none. I am sure this is the house I was at before, she told me to come back later.” At that point I asked if they were Jehovah’s Witnesses, they confirmed it, and we were off.

Now, I know some people who would try to get rid of JWs as quickly as possible, but I love them. I’ve only had one other encounter with them, which I documented here. They are so full of confidence that their book holds all the answers, yet generally pretty ignorant of basic facts. So I decided to pass some time chatting.

I was introduced to the younger woman, who pretty much never spoke the whole time, as a converted Muslim. I had to explain the whole “Jewish atheist” upbringing thing, which the lady interpreted to mean “Oh, so you read the Bible but you never actually got to know the Lord.” I told her I didn’t see it as getting to know anyone, but rather as not being raised to believe that their god existed.



A little evasively, she said that they didn’t know good and evil, but they understood that it would be disobeying God. But I persisted, did they really? How did they know that it was wrong to disobey God if they didn’t know good and evil? What did they learn from the fruit of knowledge if they had that much understanding about not disobeying God?

She started to read what God said about how the day that Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they would die. So I said “But they didn’t die that day. So God was wrong.” And she said no, they certainly did die, in the sense that they became mortal. Then we talked about how the word “day” is sometimes a metaphor, and I brought up young earthism, so she said that she dismisses young earthism. “Yes,” I said, “but there is no indication in the Bible how long those ‘days’ of creation actually were. Science had to figure it out first, before you could take credit for her.” I also had to fill her in on background history of Bishop Ussher, since she didn’t know how widely accepted young earthism once was.

I asked how, with all the non-literal stuff in the Bible, she can tell the difference between what’s meant to be taken seriously and what’s not? The Bible has no key to interpreting itself — she pointed out that “in the beginning” from Genesis could be an indeterminate length of time and I pointed out that there is no way, without the insight of scientific examination, to actually determine that this is meant to stand for exactly 14.5 billion years.

But then she said that yes, the Bible has lots of original scientific knowledge, such as the order of creation matching up perfectly with what science says. “Oh reeeeally?” I asked, because this is one of my favorite claims to respond to. “Show me this ordering of creation please, that’s fascinating!” So she skipped back to Genesis and started running through the separation of light and darkness, and then plants, and then… “Where was the sun at this point?” I asked.

She had an answer for me: “Oh, this verse doesn’t mean that the sun was CREATED there. It just means that the sun was REVEALED at that point.” Then she started to explain to me about the vapor canopy hypothesis, where the firmament water that would eventually become the water of Noah’s flood, was blocking out the visibility of the sun.

“So,” I said, “you believe that when plants came into existence, there was no visible sun on earth.” “That’s right.” “And you believe this is in accordance with what modern science says? Seriously? How do you think plants get their energy? Ever heard of photosynthesis?” She put it to me that plants were getting energy straight from God.

So I said “I’m sorry, but you originally said that you think this information matches up with current scientific data. I know a lot of scientists, and I think it’s safe to say that only a very tiny minority would give any credibility whatever to your version of events, including the vapor canopy hypothesis.” She insisted that she had all kinds of literature she can bring back proving its scientific accuracy. I replied that I’m well aware that lots of creationists believe in that, but that doesn’t make it in agreement with scientific thinking.

“What I’d really like to see is some kind of mainstream, peer reviewed, scientific journal that seriously advances the ideas that you’re talking about.” She promised that she would do the research and come back with it later. Asked what time would be good for me, and we agreed on Saturday at 11. The whole conversation lasted about 15 minutes, I think.

Personally, I’m betting they won’t be back.


  1. says

    cool post. thanks!That is awesome. Personally, I have a hard time getting past feeling sorry for them because I know they will not be able to convince me of anything, so I avoid it. Something about looking them in the eyes is sad…I bet they will be back. Don't make any plans. And when the come back, please do write more!

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    @Minus"I asked her what she thought about the part that said I can sell my daughter into slavery. "…"She didn't have time right then because they were busy fund raising for their convention."Maybe you shouldn't have mentioned that until after their fund raising was finished.

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    I typically just give the reply "Wiffit" ala carnies would give to each other in the early 20th to let each other know they were in on the con. I'm honestly curious to see what would happen if one rings ont he bell of a Mormon on mission or the like. It'd be an unstoppable force vs unmovable object scenario!

  13. says

    She came by again — just the older lady this time. Unfortunately, she came an hour late, I was in the middle of doing something else, and she was running late for something else. She handed me a stack of printed creationist literature and asked if I would read them and try again later.I'll probably skim them and comment briefly. But basically, rather than respond to my request for mainstream peer reviewed literature, she gave me a printout of something citing things like "The Genesis Flood (1961)" and another printout on how science is just like a religion.Funny, arguing against using science AFTER claiming that her religion matches up with scientific knowledge. 😛 Sadly, she has not left any other way to get in touch, so I'll just have to wait and see if she comes back.

  14. says

    Your too nice,I would have had a field day with them – making it as long and painful as possible. The only time I ever say a JW was a while back when i was still indoctrinated by the Roman Catholic Church.I really want to meet some again, if only to compare the my feelings on what they say.

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    "Funny, arguing against using science AFTER claiming that her religion matches up with scientific knowledge."That's always the way. They want to cop the credibility that science has by calling their stuff scientific. But when you press them on it, they say that science is just another religion. I guess that means they think their religion is just another religion, since it's scientific.

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    >Interesting interaction.>You are correct. >Most people who claim to know the Bible do not read it but only sections to prove their point.>Obsession with something you believe in is a life passion.>Obsession with something you don't believe in is a great way to spend your free time.>Thanks

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