Death From Circumcision

By Danelle Day Ph.D © 2010

1 ounce of blood - size comparison in glass beaker to a U.S. quarter
A newborn baby is in a state of critical hemorrhage from a loss of just 1 ounce of blood.

A baby only needs to lose 1 ounce of blood to hemorrhage, and just 2.3 ounces to die as a result of this blood loss. It can, and does, occur at a frightening quick pace. In their statement on the increased dangers of neonatal circumcision, Doctors Opposing Circumcision (DOC) and the Medical Professionals for Genital Autonomy reported:

The prepuce is highly vascularized, so it is likely to hemorrhage when cut, and severing the frenular artery is very common. Infants have a miniscule amount of blood in their tiny bodies and can tolerate only about a 20 percent blood loss before hypovolemia, hypovolemic shock, and death. A 4000 gram male newborn has only 11.5oz (340 ml) of total blood volume at birth, 85 ml per kilogram of weight. Blood loss of only 2.3oz, (68 ml), 20% of total blood volume at birth is sufficient to cause hypovolemia. Many newborns, and especially premature infants, weigh much less and a smaller amount of blood loss would be sufficient to trigger hypovolemic shock in those infants. Circumcision of infants, therefore, carries the inherent danger of hypovolemic shock and death. 

This is one reason that so many clamps are used on the amputation site when the prepuce organ is removed during circumcision surgery - to stop the 'bleeders.' It is also the reason these clamps are left in place at least 5 minutes after cutting is complete (as horrifically painful as this is for a newborn who cannot be put under general anesthesia at this stage in life). The penile clamping is an attempt to prevent this new little baby from hemorrhaging to death. As much as we'd like to prevent all infant death, healthy babies were simply not designed to have functioning organs cut from their body at birth, and consequences are much more common than some U.S. parents are led to believe.

2.3 ounces of blood - size comparison in glass beaker to U.S. quarter
A newborn baby will die from a loss of 2.3 ounces of blood.

In a meta-analysis of statistics cataloged from 1989-2009, results are clear: There is a much greater likelihood of complications, including illness, infection, and death from circumcision than there is from keeping a baby whole and intact.

On many occasions hemorrhaging does not occur until parents leave the surgical site with their freshly cut baby in tow. Diapers, especially the popular absorbent disposable diapers ubiquitous in today's baby culture, easily hide 1-2 ounces of blood from a festering wound. We've heard others blame parents, "They should have SEEN the blood and rushed their baby to the ER!" But we cannot always be so quick to blame misinformed parents wading through the myths of genital cutting.

First, no one tells parents who are about to cut their baby that he may well hemorrhage from the surgery, and that the possibility of death exists.

Second, rarely are parents briefed on all the complications that can and do arise post-op for a circumcised baby.

Third, even 2 ounces of blood is easily hidden in a disposable diaper and by the time a diaper change takes place, it may be too late. DOC reports that, "The quantity of blood loss that can kill an infant—2.3oz—is easily concealed in today’s highly absorbent disposable diaper."

We decided to put this to the test and soaked 2.5 ounces of blood (more than it would take for an infant to hemorrhage and die) into a Huggies brand disposable diaper that had already been slightly 'used' (urine) to closely as possible replicate the scenario. With results that even shocked us here at Peaceful Parenting, there is virtually no way to tell that a baby has been bleeding to death when he has a disposable diaper on. In addition, it takes very little time for a fresh amputation site to hemorrhage and lose this much blood.

Used disposable diaper holding urine and 2.5 ounces of blood. From the outside, the danger is not visible.

Fourth, hospitals are quick to cover up 'mistakes,' while a pro-cutting U.S. culture continues to propagate myths about how common morbidity and mortality due to circumcision are. Parents rarely talk openly about their son's death due to circumcision because this would mean admitting an unnecessary cosmetic amputation surgery killed their child.

Finally, it is almost unheard of for an attorney to take a wrongful death due to circumcision case because infants are simply not valued in our society and the pay-out for a short, undervalued life would be negligible.

Because of all of this, the circle of ignorance continues regarding death from circumcision.

So just how many boys die each year as a result of MGM in the United States? We really don't know for certain. U.S. statistical analysis studies conducted on death from circumcision are drastically under-reported because hospitals are not required to log death due to genital cutting surgery. Genital amputation (circumcision) that causes heart attack, hemorrhage, coma, seizure, stroke, or infection may be coded inappropriately as 'SIDS' or 'heart failure' or 'seizure,' for example, but not specifically due to the bodily trauma experienced as a result of circumcision.

Still, these studies have found approximately 230 baby boys die each year in the U.S. as a result of circumcision surgery. (1) Another study published last week found at least 117 boys die annually from circumcision surgery as it is reported by hospitals. (2) We're not alone in our estimation that there are likely at least twice as many deaths due to circumcision, because of our non-structured and easy-to-cover-up means of infant mortality reporting. But if we are only looking at research-based documentation, we find an average 174 boys die each year with the documented cause being circumcision surgery.

Especially disturbing in these statistics is that the AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) continues to issue widespread warnings about choking as one of the highest causes of death among children, despite the fact that a greater number of infants die from circumcision than from choking. (3)

In an AAP cited study, the US Consumer Product Safety Commission concluded that choking on non-food objects causes approximately 22 deaths per year among all children in the United States. (4) In a national analysis, also cited by the AAP, it was found that choking while eating food causes approximately 73 deaths per year among all children under the age of 10 in the U.S. (5) The AAP teaches parents to be cautious because "choking on food causes the death of approximately 1 child every 5 days in the United States." (6) The rate of boys vs. girls who die from choking is not significantly different, which this means that approximately 1 boy under the age of 10 dies every 10 days from choking in the United States, or 36 boys per year.

Compare this to 1 infant boy dying every 2 days as a result of circumcision in the United States, or an average of 174 boys per year.

All of the deaths due to choking (which are most often related to eating - something we humans must do) are a mere fraction of the deaths due to circumcision (an unnecessary and medically contraindicated surgical amputation). If the AAP were to issue a similar warning for circumcision, they must state that circumcision causes the death of approximately 1 child every 2 days. Not only that, but 1 infant dies every 2 days from circumcision, as compared to the estimate that 1 "child under the age of 10" dies every 5 days from choking. And these are solely using the hospital statistics for death due to circumcision (again, the real numbers are likely much higher).

If choking is otherwise to blame for the some of the highest rates of childhood death in the United States (as the AAP claims that it is), and there are more infant deaths per year as a result of circumcision surgery, it is therefore urgent that we correctly inform parents that one of the greatest causes of death for children in the United States is circumcision.

One must wonder - where is the AAP warning in all of this?

Graphic from the Centers for Disease Control and the NCHS.
Infant = first 12-24 months of life / Neonatal = first 4 weeks of life. 

Ryleigh McWillis is just one baby who died as a result of circumcision.

Ryleigh was suffering from the typical post-op consequences of having an organ amputated from his fresh, fragile body, but was checked over by a doctor and sent home. His parents noted that he was "fussy" all day (again, normal for a tiny human being who has just had 1/3 of their penis cut off - post traumatic stress disorder, PTSD, is ubiquitously common among circumcised babies, resulting in what we often mislabel, "colic").

Ryleigh's diaper had blood in it that evening (again, somewhat common as the amputation site festers, scabs, and attempts to heal itself). But his parents were not overly concerned. His mother said, "It was pinkish because it was diluted by pee." Ryleigh's mother sat up all night holding her crying baby, and when his father changed his diaper in the morning, it again had blood in it. This time they rushed to the hospital. By noon he was evacuated by air to the B.C. Children's Hospital (where 95.1% of baby boys born remain intact from birth).

Despite all the blood transfusions, saline solution, antibiotics, and resuscitation attempts, this little 1-month old baby, born perfectly healthy and happy, died. Ryleigh was intact and whole for his first 4 weeks on earth. Upon needlessly having his penis cut apart, Ryleigh's blood loss caused his organs and heart give out. All of this, for a medically unnecessary cosmetic surgery his parents opted for, at a B.C. location where the MGM rate is just 4.9%.

It is infrequent for parents of babies who die from circumcision to go on the news, or allow interviewers to get involved in their case. The guilt and remorse must be overwhelming. It is difficult enough for parents of cut children who live to handle what was done to their son(s) if and when they learn of all that circumcision takes away from a boy/man. Ryleigh's parents, however, said they wanted to 'make a difference' for others.

In this enlightening video, John V. Geisheker, J.D., LL.M., discusses Ryleigh's death and why all circumcision deaths continue to be so grossly under reported and unchallenged.




(3) AAP Policy Statement: Prevention of Choking Among Children. Feb 10, 2010. Published online at:

(4) Rimell FL, Thome A Jr, Stool S, et al. Characteristics of objects that cause choking in children. JAMA. 1995;274(22):1763–1766

(5) Harris CS, Baker SP, Smith GA, Harris RM. Childhood asphyxiation by food: a national analysis and overview. JAMA. 1984;251(17): 2231–2235

(6) Policy Statement: Prevention of Choking Among Children. Committee on Injury, Violence, and Poison Prevention. Pediatrics. 2010; DOI: 10.1542/peds.2009-2862

Related Reading:


Increased Dangers of Circumcision Report

Cut vs. Intact Outcome Statistics

Death From Circumcision Higher than Suffocation and Auto Accidents

Medical Professionals for Genital Autonomy

Circumcision Infant Deaths in the News:

Parents Sue over Baby's Death from Circumcision in South Dakota:

New York (Brooklyn) Baby Dies From Circumcision:

Baby Dies From Circumcision During Brit Milah:

Baby Dies After Circumcision Surgery Blood Loss and Heart Failure:

Healthy Newborn Dies Post Circumcision Hemorrhage:

Two Week Old Baby Dies from Circumcision in Norway:

Queens, NY Baby Dies on Table During Circumcision:

Cutting Culture Album (additional social media deaths shared):

More newborn baby boys die from circumcision surgery each year in the United States than from choking, from auto accidents, from suffocation, from SIDS, from sleep positioners and from (the newly banned) drop-side cribs.

Complications of infant circumcision found by the Stanford University School of Medicine:


Doctors Re-examine Circumcision:

Marked in Your Flesh: Circumcision from Ancient Judea to Modern America:

Circumcision: A History of the World's Most Controversial Surgery:

Circumcision Exposed: Rethinking a Medical and Cultural Tradition:

What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Circumcision:

The Foreskin and Why You Should Keep It:

Questioning Circumcision: A Jewish Perspective:

Celebrating Brit Shalom:

Your Baby, Your Way:

Unspeakable Mutilations:

The Joy of Uncircumcising (Restoring):

Circumcision: What Every Parent Should Know:

Circumcision: The Hidden Trauma:

Circumcision: The Rest of the Story:

Circumcision: An American Health Fallacy:

Circumcision: The Painful Dilemma:

40 Compelling Reasons Why You Should Respect His Birthright and Keep Your Son Whole:

Children's Genitals Under the Knife:


  1. I am completely against male circumcision but I can't understand why would if you even thought it be the right choice why they cant not in other countries put a child under general anesthesia.
    In Australia it is not common at all for boys to circumcised and if this does happen boys are put under with general anesthesia.
    It sickens me to my stomach that this unnecessary operation is taken out of helpless baby boys not taking into account how they will feel when they are older. But it makes me feel even more ill that if someone was to still take the step and choose to do this that their little boy had to feel what happened. It truly is not fair.

  2. Samantha - in N.America there is a push to circumcise before a baby reaches 10lbs in weight, and in the U.S. before he leaves the hospital. At this young age, and light weight, the body cannot handle general anesthesia - in fact, guidelines regulate that it cannot be used until after 6 months of age, and parents are led to believe that THIS (general anesthesia) is more dangerous than prepuce amputation. As a result, they try to have the surgery done as early as possible - and 96% of the time it is done without ANY anesthesia of any type, because a doctor or resident can perform the cutting faster (not having to wait for the anesthesia to take effect).

    1. Anesthesia for infants is very tricky business at best. It is more precise now but still chancy. It was while England was trying to anesthetize for Routine Infant Circumcision that they had an epidemic of hundreds of deaths, I believe in the latter 1940s. This precipitated a study commonly known as the Doyle Report that showed NO health upside to RIC, which helped decide that it would not be an item paid by National Health.
      The only truly safe circumcision is the one NEVER performed.

  3. Hi Samantha, the Royal Australasian College of Physicians says there's no reason to do it, but if parents insist, then they should wait until 6 months.

    Now that we know circumcision kills as many American babies as SIDS, and that it's 15 times deadlier per patient than the Gardasil vaccine (that people were up in arms about earlier this year), there is just no excuse to perpetrate this senseless barbaric act that robs him of so much pleasure-receptive capacity.

  4. I'm definitely bookmarking this!! thanks for sharing! I only have one girl for now and haven'r really considered this but am going to research it!! I'm new to this blog but I'll be definitely be coming back!!!

  5. This is so frightening! When my second child (my first son) was born, I could not imagine as a mother putting him through such a horrible procedure. I did my own research and didn't listen to all the people including other moms who told me that "it's not that big a deal" or "it's quick and painless". I didn't believe it for a second.
    We spent the first nights of his life peacefully, sleeping cuddled up together. No problems with breastfeeding due to him going through such a trauma. And thank goodness no having to worry about changing bloody diapers!
    To this day I thank my lucky stars that we live in an age where we can educate ourselves and we don't have to take advice unquestioningly. My son is 18 months old, the light of my life, and I am so glad that he is perfectly as nature intended.

    I hope that more insurance companies stop covering this ELECTIVE and completely unnecessary surgical procedure. If parents had to pay out of pocket, likely $500+, they would likely reconsider. Not that it would stop the practice completely, but it would help. In the extremely rare case that it was medically necessary it should have to be approved by a specialist/urologist in order to be covered.

    1. FYI: In BC, where it is not covered by insurance (and rates are relatively low), it costs ~$300 or less. I wish it were more expensive so cost would be more of a deterrent.

  6. this made me want to vomit and cry at the same time. I lost it when they were quoted that they would still circumcise any other boys they had. Where are the reprecussion? Why are these doctors not prosecuted? Why is a living, breathing, eating and pooping baby not considered a person? Our society disgusts me.

  7. That's... mind boggling. And mind opening as well! I've never been "anti-circ" until recently. My husband is intact, and when we adopted our older son at age 2 he was also intact and we left him as such. I was actually really upset about the discussions going around from other adoptive parents circ'ing their older boys, but I couldn't quite put my finger on why. With our second son I asked the agency and his first mother to keep him intact, because "his daddy and brother are intact and we don't want him to feel out of place." Or at least that's what we said and that's why they agreed to keep him intact. In actuality the thought of him being circ'ed just made me queesy. But I never really did much research until I started reading this blog and now I'm so, so glad that the boys in my life are all as nature intended. Thank you so much for posting this, and other stories and information. It's stuff like this that really needs to be seen by the world (or at least the parents in North America!).

  8. i didn't even question having my two sons, they were, just like all the male familiy members my husband & i have. in fact, until i read this post, i had no clue what circumcision actually was...

    how sad it it that i blindly followed some stupid social 'norm', when everything else i've done & do as a parent has been as informed as possible?

    now [after reading all the info on peaceful parenting & spending the better part of the day reading all the info i can handle from the links], when the damage has been done, i wish i had not had my sons circumcised...and i feel so ill & consumed w/ guilt...i hope they will forgive me.

    at least i can educate my sons [for when they have children of their own], as well as my friends & family members.

    thank you.

  9. Anon -

    I am sure it is a 'healing' process for you as a loving mother to come to terms with having sons who were circumcised without their parents being fully informed. We are sometimes victims of a myth-filled society along with our children. You do not need to feel guilt about it now - when we know better, we do better. You did the best you could with the information you had at the time and there are many moms in your shoes.

    In case you are interested, these are letters and articles and threads by others who have apologized to their sons for what happened to them/was taken from them. Some of the letters are just beautiful and as heart-felt as a mother's love can get.

    My Beautiful Boy, I am Sorry:

    A Heartfelt Christmas Gift

    Dealing with Circumcision Regret

    What I Wish I'd Known:

    Mothers Talk about Sons' Circumcisions thread from hundreds of mothers who regret circumcision:

    These are music videos by one father on the subject:

    Maybe someday you also will be able to tell your sons about restoration so that they can look into it if they choose to do so. There are thousands of men restoring today:

    Best wishes to you and your family and your future intact grandsons! :)

    There is clear evidence for this. The same survey found that where Medicaid paid more than $US60, circumcision was nearly twice as likely as where it paid less than $US50.

  11. THIS. THIS is what passes for "informed consent" in 21st century America.

    May one day American circumcising doctors be exposed for the chalatans and medical frauds they are.

  12. So scary...especially the cover-up of it happening!!! My almost 6 y.o son is intact and my little boy that is due in July will be too. I cannot imagine having that done to them.

  13. I made the decision to keep my boys intact before I ever go pregnant with the first one. :0) At age 19 I was already an intactivist thanks to the woman I worked for who had an intact son. I think it is very important to spread the word to all ages ya never know who you may be influencing down the road. :0)

  14. Please, please, PLEASE investigate this if you are going to have a boy! I have one son cut, and one whole, and cannot express the severe regret in not making an informed decision the first time!

  15. My first son, although I didn't know the dangers and uselessness of circ'ing remained intact; mainly because I am so sensitive to other people's pain....I have recently found out that the baby I am carrying is a boy also, and he will remain intact as well. ♥ Thank goodness for the information shared by Saving Penises ( and Peaceful Parenting ♥

  16. this makes me want to throw up. so tragic and so unnecessary.

  17. sick! why do something to ur child that God put there for a reason!

  18. Good article. It well illustrates how parents could be deceived by an absorbent diaper.

    We should also make mention of the boys who are maimed by a botched surgery. That happens too, but I'm not sure what the statistics are on that.

  19. this is a good article for husbands who may be 'on the fence' or disagree with those of us who don't want to circ our sons! It took a VIDEO to convince my husband, but he is in complete agreement now. Thanks for posting this!

  20. Absolutely disgusting that this still goes on and that these numbers are hidden from parents. Just tragic. :(

  21. How awful! I just don't understand it at all. Such unnecessary pain and mutilation inflicted on a baby.

    Can someone tell me, is a circumcision done with the parents present or are they taken away from their parents?

  22. they would not let me nor my husband go back with my son when he was circumcised. it was really traumatizing for me (not to mention what it was like for my son). our next son will not be put through this!!

  23. My husband and I were with my son the whole time, and it was horrific. Never again. Never.

  24. my husband pressured me to do it.. i didn't realize how horrible it was until after.. i would NEVER allow it again.. the guilt is gut wrenching sometimes.. the more i read about it.. it's all for profit, there is no good reason to do such a thing

  25. My wife and I listened to our midwife recount the story of her son's circumcision - and even after 20+ years had passed since that occurrence, she wept as though the loss had no tomorrow.

    We birthed our little girl at home - were it a boy, the question of the baby's integrity would never have been in doubt. Not after hearing a confession from which one cannot be consoled. I still feel her pain...

  26. Circumcision was never offered when i had my son, nor do i know of anyone offered it. is it something you ask for?

  27. I will never forgive myself for allowing my son to get circumcised.

    I felt pressured into by my husband, family and friends. I should have stood my ground and not given into it.

    I wish I would have known about this site before the surgery because I think I would have been able to convince my husband otherwise.

    If I have another boy I would never put him through it! I should have followed my instincts and refused it.

  28. I can't believe how common it is where you are - here in NZ it is actually VERY hard to find someone to do it (not us, but ppl I know of, and have had parents ask me where I work in NICU). No one even knows of a place to get it done.

  29. ((hugs Sarah)) There is no way to change the past, only to look forward into the future. Just make sure you educate your sons about what it is to be intact, and apologize to them for cutting part of their body. That's really all you can do.

  30. Sometimes the best activists are those who were duped.

    I know it motivated me... We can't feel badly for things that we were ignorant to. It's much different to know this information, and still choose that route!

  31. This is so sad. I wish more parents were given this information.

  32. My husband wishes he had the choice. We did not circ our son. I have changed a lot of diapers working with children. Boys won't get teased, it's about 50/50 out there. Why is it there if it weren't meant to be?? I read an article in Mothering that showed a study that there is an enzyme made under foreskin that protects the body from disease.

  33. I'm with you Sarah. I'm still not over my sons' circumcisions and wish I had been strong enough to stand up to my ex.

    I had 3 boys circed (they're 18, 15 and 13).

    I went out into the parking lot for the first because I didn't want to hear him scream...WHY didn't I just grab him and run when the doctor said that it's harder for them to be anesthetized??

    My 2nd son was anesthetized, but it was still so hard for me.

    With my 3rd, I sat in the waiting room sobbing and still wish I would have grabbed him and run.

    I cry for all of them to this day, when I start to think about it.

    I have 2 intact sons (2nd marriage, much better man!) now, but still feel so sad for my first 3.

    I'm going to keep working on my sons, so they don't ever do it to their sons...I hope their wives agree. :(

  34. Lorri I know that in one particular hospital near me, not only are the parents not allowed in the room, the poor child is actually put behind three doors because they don't want any parents or anyone overhearing the screams to 'freak out.'

    Maybe a societal 'freak out' is what it's gonna take to end this.

  35. So so sad. Will give my intact boy extra cuddles tonight.

  36. Yes, Natalie - "Maybe a societal 'freak out' is what it's gonna take to end this." It is the reason we all have to speak up. Hopefully soon the intact rate will be much closer to 100% in the U.S. than the current 50%.

  37. children are usually born physically perfect-what a perfect design.i'm not really into slicing bits off.

  38. That made me so very sad. Poor baby.

    Our local hospital will not circumcise newborn infants. I was so happy to learn this as I had to give birth there with my son, instead of the birth center where I had birthed my daughter.

    I half-jokingly asked my midwife if someone was going to try to take him and circumcise him against my wishes.

    She informed me that they believe it may interfere with establishing nursing and is unnecessary so they will not circumcise- if you want a circ you need to make other arrangements.

    Maybe, just maybe, parents will see how perfect their little one is and opt not to take that extra step after the fact.

    Hopefully this is the beginning of a trend!

  39. @ Kristy: At one of our prenatal OB appointments, we were asked if we wanted our son circumcised. We answered "NO!", which we thought was entered into our chart.

    At the hospital after our son was born, we were asked about 5 times if we wanted our son cut. Each time we answered no, and you would have thought that they'd drop the subject.

    Each time a new pediatrician/resident/student (he was born at a teaching hospital) would come in to examine our son, they'd ask us again.

    I wish we would have printed up a sign saying, "NO CIRCUMCISION!" to put on his bassinet.

    With all this badgering, I was super worried each time they'd take him off to the nursery. I'd take off his diaper to make sure they hadn't cut him without our consent.

  40. We had a similar experience to Cristina -- even though my wife teaches human sexuality in a clinic attached to the hospital, we were asked SEVEN times if we'd let them cut our son. Each time we had to say NO!

    We also met a family who said "NO!" and wanted to protect their intact son, and he was cut anyway!! (Of course, they won the lawsuit - but this will never get this boy/man his foreskin back).

  41. DrMomma,



    After it was done, I got a phone call from the nursery. I could barely hear the nurse saying that I should come nurse him to calm him down because my poor baby was screaming. I still burst into tears every single time I think about it. I can still hear his screaming cries. If there's a hell, I'm certain that that's what it sounds like.




    Keep up your efforts. I always share on Facebook : )

  42. At the NZ Skeptics' conference last year, I poured that much "blood" (red wine) from a Coke can (equivalent in volume to the whole baby) into a disposable nappie (diaper) and then passed it round. You could hardly see the wine.

    (A podcast of the presentation is here - but the silent demonstration has been edited out.)

    Such a demonstration should be part of every ante-natal class that discusses circumcision.

  43. Sadly I know a woman on twitter who is an intactavist because 8 months ago her son almost died from circumcision. She changed his cloth diaper and it was soaked in blood, she took him straight to the ER. If she had waited an hour more, he would have been dead. He now has buried penis syndrome.

  44. Ashley - your friend's story is chilling - and we hear stories like this every single week here. I pray there comes a time VERY soon when no parent has to tell this frightening experience of almost losing, or losing, their loved little one because of an unnecessary amputation.

  45. I am totally against MGM and like your blog. However, before quoting and posting links to your blog I tried to look up how many children die of choking each year. I didn't get what I'd call reliable info. I'd like to know how many you found to die each year of choking and where did you find this information?

  46. Anon -

    The numbers from the most recent AAP cited studies are listed in the above article with citations (numbered) and references for these studies at the bottom of the page.

  47. This completely horrifies me, my son was circumcised yesterday! My husband and I chose not to circumcise but when he was a couple months older we found out that it was medically necessary because he had a penile/scrotal adhesion as well as a tight band of tissue on his urethra that could have led to all sorts of problems (tumors, cancer, infections, erectile dysfunction, bladder rupture etc. etc. etc.) so we saw a specialist and struggled for a long time with the decision. His surgery was yesterday and it has been absolute hell i can't stop crying i cannot understand why ANYONE would subject their child to this much pain for no reason.... I'm so scared that something is going to happen to him now... I'm going to be watching him even more like a hawk. Thank you for getting this information out there.

  48. Miss Ashlee, I believe the tight junction must have been the normal physiology of an infant foreskin which is fused to the glans until after puberty. This is normal and healthy. The foreskin protects the urethra from feces and ammonia in urine during diapers years, throughout boyhood the foreskin will naturally separates as a sign of healthy development. That's why a person (except the owner of the penis) cannot and should never retract the foreskin of the boy, it will only cause pain, tearing, bleeding, leading to infections. I have a feeling that his scrotal condition would have been able to be resolved w/o amputation of the foreskin.

  49. asnatureintended - Miss.Ashlee said the tight band was on the urethra itself. That doesn't sound like the way any doctor would describe the foreskin, even if they're uneducated about intact boys.

  50. Miss. Ashlee, your story has me in tears. Please contact a lawyer. You were led to believe incorrect information. Their ploy was nothing but fear-based solicitation. The anatomy of the prepuce organ is a sophisticated structure.

    "...the corpuscular receptor-rich ridged band of the prepuce is part of the normal complement of penile erogenous tissue"

    What you described, "tight band of tissue on his urethra" is actually the Ridged Band. Also known as the Frenar band. On an infant, this is suppose to be tight. Its a sphincter. The Ridged Band is a group of soft ridges near the junction of the inner and outer foreskin. It relaxes when the infant urinates and closes tightly again after urination is complete. This is normal. The human blueprint designed the male prepuce organ precisely this way so it protects the meatus (opening of the urethra on the glans).

    You mentioned adhesions. The prepuce organ is naturally bonded to the glans. This is normal. It is fused together with the same material that fuses the fingernail to the finger. This material is called Synechia. The prepuce organ will naturally separate as the penis develops. The average age for full retraction is 10.5 yrs. Sometimes full retraction of the prepuce organ doesn't happen until puberty; at a time when his hormones are flooding his body to facilitate this natural process. It is important to not ever retract the foreskin while its still fused to the glans. The only person who should retract the foreskin is the boy himself. Just as you'd never separate the synechia of a newborn kitten's eyes because the eyes are still developing, you should never separate the synechia of the prepuce organ because the penis is still developing.

    There is a lawyer in Atlanta, GA who has succeeded in cases like yours. Please, I encourage you to contact him. Do not let these doctors get away with what they did to your son. What they did was wrong and extremely unethical. They literally hammered you and your husband with every trick up their sleeves (just like a dirty old sleazy Used Car Salesman) trying desperately to get you guys to elect your son's healthy genitals under the knife. My heart is broken for you and your family. May justice be served to the fullest extent of the law.

  51. Miss Ashlee,

    This is fear-based medicine!

    You should call Atlanta attorney David Llewellyn at 404-524-5626, the most experienced circumcision trial lawyer in the country!

    Sadly, many parents are "hood-winked" like this into surgery for their sons, and don't know how to contact experts in the field before allowing this to happen.

    But, like me (who believed a lying doctor and failed to protect my own sons from circumcision), you can make a difference for the boys that follow!

    If you'd like more information, I'm happy to help.

  52. Miss Ashlee,

    I am very sorry to hear of your son's situation. I can only imagine how difficult it would be for a mother who deeply loves her son and wants to do what is best for him to have to watch him endure such loss.

    One of the ways that we strive to provide accurate and complete information on this subject at is to ensure that parents with intact boys have resources necessary to ward off a society that is filled with myth and misconception in the United States (and sometimes, in Canada as well).

    There is rarely a true reason to amputate the prepuce organ from a boy.

    I understand this would be difficult to deal with at this point, and you likely have no interest in reading further on the subject right now. But we have to make sure that other parents, too, are not given misinformation from a medical system that often resorts to cutting when it is not the least invasive answer or solution.

    RARELY - in fact, almost never - is circumcision 'needed'.

    Only in cases of gangrene or cancer or severe diabetes where other limbs are also at risk of requiring amputation, would we find this to be the case.

    The phimosis diagnosis (tight tissues) and adhesions are faulty reasons that many doctors continue to give for circumcision in the United States. We do not see the same thing occurring in other countries where boys/men are left intact. There are prepuce-saving measures that can be taken in virtually every case.

    The majority of 'problems' that occasionally arise among intact U.S. boys occur due to forced retraction as an infant (either by well-meaning parents or uninformed medical staff and care providers) at birth or shortly after.

    As a loving mother striving to do what is best for your son, you are certainly not at fault for his circumcision. In fact, I believe that most parents who elect to have this done (whether at birth or beyond) are trying to do what is best for their child, but without complete or accurate information.

    Sometimes, parents are 'victims' of a myth-filled system right along with their boys. This is why we find that some of the most heart-felt and driven intactivists today are also those whose sons were cut at birth (or in childhood). They were misinformed on these subjects, or never given the opportunity to question at the time, and they strive to make sure it does not happen to others.

    Here are a host of articles pertaining to various topics of intact care.

    If anyone has other questions outside the realm of these articles, we'd be happy to address them specifically. You can email us or we invite you to contact Doctors Opposing Circumcision: or NOCIRC:

    As others here have mentioned, you may wish to contact legal advice because an infant circumcised without medical problems (a tight band and adhesions can be corrected with less invasive measures and most often loosen themselves on their own in time when left alone) is grounds for restitution.



    Phony Phimosis Diagnosis:

    Protect Your Intact Son:

    Only Clean What is Seen: Reversing the Epidemic of Forced Retraction:

    The Functions of the Foreskin (important for everyone to understand):

    Medical Testing: Do Not Retract:

    How the Foreskin Protects Against UTI:

    Raising Intact Sons:

    Basic Care of the Intact Child:

    Forced Retraction? Now What?

    Doctors Opposing Circumcision Statement for Physicians and Nurses on Forced Retraction:

    Forced Retraction: Ask the Experts

    National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers Publication on care of the intact penis:

    Painful Urination During Prepuce Separation

    Questions Regarding Normal Separation of the Prepuce

  54. Miss Ashlee,

    I am so upset and angry to read how your family became a victim to a corrupt fee-for-service medical system.

    While an increasing number of doctors are refusing to perform circumcisions on ethical grounds, the prospect of earning literally hundreds of dollars for a few minutes of effort can simply be too much for unethical doctors to resist.

    I fully support the suggestions of others that you consider legal options against the person who violated and brutalized your son and exploited and betrayed your family.

    Very best wishes to your family.

  55. how awful terrible and eye opening even more than other info I read already about this subject...Thank you for writing it, luckyly here in Italy it's not widespread and Italians are generally speaking against anything that makes children suffer so much even tough in many many hospital they still do awful things such as separating babies and mother for hours at birth and give them glucose and formula before bringing them back to the mother so she immediately has a very bad start in nursing...
    I know it. But managed fine after a rough start and I cried with the first 2 vaccines he had, then got informed and done no more. It's all down to ignorance as we are not told these things and will never know anything about parenting from pregnancy to breastfeeding to anything unless we ourselves get informed or someone like you talks about it and someone like us stumbles on your article. I'll share on facebook.

  56. Here is a partial record of boys, girls and adults killed by circumcision:

  57. The McWillises, in their desire to have any future sons cut, have demonstrated that they are not real people. Just some sort of androids.

  58. Our surgeon tried to convince me that my 3 year old needs circumcised. He had buried penis syndrome, and I was told that "if he wasn't fully retractable by age 3 he never would be, and he needed the surgery". I was also told that he had phimosis. I've always been against circ'ing, but thank god for posts like this where I researched the other diagnoses, and found they're all lies. My son if fully intact, and his penis is coming out all on his own. (He's still 3).

  59. Given what I know now about this horrible disfigurement, I would never allow it to be done to a baby. A grown adult male can opt to do this on his own if he so desires.
    As an adult male, I wish I still had my foreskin as nature intended.
    We are appalled at female circumcision, yet we advocate it for males?
    The U.S. is the only country in the world where this is a normal procedure.
    Civilized my ass.
    After fathering 4 healthy chuldren, my 5th died as a result of the "recommended vacinations" and my wife and I question EVERYTHING with our daughter that is now 2 1/2. She has never been vaccinated, was breast fed until a year old. She has been given "real food" since 6 months old. She is perfect in every way, and the healthiest child I have ever had. She has had ONE medium severity cold in her lifetime. And her pediatrician says she is incredibly advanced in her developement.
    Do your research, and make informed decisions on your childs healthcare. Our system is NOT truthfull. It's all about the money, ALWAYS.
    I allowed the circumcision of my 2 older sons, had I known then what I know now, it would NOT have been done. If we have another, he will NOT be disfigured by greedy doctors.

  60. is fully intact..that is :)

  61. If more cut men of my age, 64, would open up and talk about their penis and how it is a shadow of what it should have been, to the young men, perhaps there would be a steep decline in the number of babies undergoing MGM.

  62. My husband (who was born in Sri Lanka and is, thus, intact) are having a little boy this May. We will definitely be keeping him intact. I haven't even held him in my arms yet, but I already know he's perfect in every way! I can't imagine hurting my precious baby.

    I feel for the moms and dads out there who circumcised their sons because they simply did not know any better. I can't imagine what that must feel like.

  63. Could we have a press release of that information, please.

  64. I cant believe I ever even considered cutting my son. There is just SO MUCH social pressure to have it done! Luckily my insurance didnt cover it and the hospital i gave birth in didnt even allow it on site! it wouldve had to be done at my OBs office the week after his birth. they told me they will NOT perform a circ after 1 month!! my OB pressured me alot to pay them the $400 so i could get it.... i had thought maybe i would wait till he was a toddler and his pain tolerance was higher... but they wanted it then and i didnt have the money for it, so thank goodness it didnt happen and my son is intact!!! i want to show this to the entire world.

  65. Just learned that another baby died from post-op hemorrhage (circumcision surgery) this week. His mother took him to the ER for bleeding from the amputation site. They told her bleeding was common. He died later that night. This needs to stop.

  66. "The Consumer Product Safety Commission is banning cribs with drop-down sides because they have been blamed for the deaths of at least 32 infants since 2001." 32 deaths in 10 years and the product is banned. How many baby boys have to die before circumcision is illegal?

  67. you know it doesn't really matter how many babies die from circumcision. if only one child died from it I still would not take that risk with my son. he is perfect the way he is.

  68. The spectre of death from circumcision is ever present and inevitable. Three separate studies (1979, 1989 and 1999) showed a remarkably consistent 229 - 230 deaths every year in The US.

    A new study was done for 2009 and magically, the deaths declined to 117 during that year. Progress of medicine, right? NO! Between 2006 and 2009, the infant circumcision rate dropped from the mid 60% range to 32.5% so circumcision deaths have not changed as a percentage of procedures and remains constant at about 1 death per 7,000 procedures.

    Few expectant parents are aware of this because circumcision deaths are kept out of the public eye. It would be devastating to a physician's practice for it to be publicly known that he/she killed a child with a procedure that is characterized as so simple it's called "A Snip." Parents are much in the same boat. Who would want it to be known that they killed their child by authorizing a cosmetic procedure with no benefits simply because they wanted it done and not to address any health problem or need? Few of these deaths ever make it into the news. Ryliegh McWillis is the exception. It wasn't the doctor that killed Ryleigh or his parents that leaked it to the media but someone within the hospital, probably a nurse who was sickened by the pointless loss of a baby's life and had to speak up on moral grounds.


  69. My heart goes out to the family of little Jamaal Coleson who died after a circumcision on May 3rd, 2011.

    100 to 200 American boys die every year from circumcision. WHY? Is it worth your child's life? Products that injure or kill just a few children are recalled and the parents warned of the dangers. WAKE UP to the DANGERS.



  71. so sad! every mother wanting to do this to her son, forgets she has a glans and prepuce herself.
    but of course, hers is protected by law. brainwashed by entities from the dark side, this kind of sexist hypocrisy is very common in many
    countries.peaceful parenting is conquering this evil.

  72. Thank you for providing another fact based article that is again well cited. I dont have boys, but odds r one of my three girls will have a boy one day.

  73. Can anyone comment on an alternative for physiological Phimosis? Currently, circumcision is the only option that seems viable for my two year old son.

  74. I left my son intact but was worried that the foreskin wasn't retracting at all even when he was 5 (it looked completely fused). My doctor was thankfully informed and said don't worry about it unless it causes him pain. I read a study online that said in the study group of intact boys - some didn't retract to as late as 18! My son just informed me that all of sudden it started to retract - he is nearly 13. I post this so others know that there is no need to force retraction or circumcise unnecessarily. Just like all natural processes, the time it takes seems to vary considerably between individuals.

  75. Thank you for sharing your story on Phimosis. My pediatrician suggested I take my son to be evaluated by a pediatric urologist because of the inability to retract the foreskin. Although the urologist said there was nothing to be done at this time if by the time he turned five the foreskin was still unable to retract then circumcision was "recommended." I have been giving this so much thought. I do not want him to have an unnecessary procedure but I also do not want him to have any complications down the line. Unfortunately, I have not been successful in finding evidence based research to help guide my decision. Most of the literature I have come across seems in support of circumcision for treatment. However, I am inspired to learn that your 13 year old son has not had any problems.

  76. I am surprised at the level of ignorance among U.S. urologists. It is normal to complete retraction as late as age 18, not 5!!

  77. >> My pediatrician suggested I take my {2 year-old} to be evaluated by a pediatric urologist because of the inability to retract the foreskin. <<

    Sorry, but you NEED a new doctor. Non-retractability is simply NOT a "symptom" of anything in a pre-adolescent. Normally the boy's own curious manipulations bring about retractibility in 96% of males before adulthood.

    For grown non-retractable males who wish to become retractable gentle stretching with steroidal ointment does the job. Even if a quick surgical fix is desired it is NOT circumcision, but "triple-incision dorsal slit with transverse closure."

    Ask your doctor to explain that procedure. If s/he can't then there is no competency in this area.


  79. Anonymouos said:

    How did you learn this?

  80. Connor's mother is friends with my brother.

  81. Anonymous said...

    If this is true then the details need to be made available to the public.

  82. When will the state prosecutor step in and take action against the baby mutilators? The legislation has existed for decades, if not centuries, it is high time to make use of it. And stop awarding negligence money to the parents who ordered the operation.

    Has anyone found the details, they should be in the public domain.

  83. WOW Great video. I had 4 boys and then 2 girls.
    I had all the boys circumsized because hubby wanted them to look like him. I am pregnant now and will not find out the gender until birth but will not circumsize this baby if it is a boy. The guy on this video speaks of the marketing and preasure that parents feel to get the procedure done.

    I don't think my boys felt pain as they were numbed and did not cry. But I did not know things could go wrong so wrong though! I will never take that chance again.

    I still feel the preasure to have our next baby if its a boy to look like every one else in the family.....I sure hope I have a girl.
    But its not like my boys hang their penis out for all to see!


  84. Oh I wanted to add that when my boys were circumsized it was done at the hospital back inthe mid 90's early 2000. I then had 2 girls so it was not an issue in resent years.
    I was told by a gal whom got her boy circumised just last month,that the hospitals don't do the procedure any more before you go home. It must be done at your docters office. Most insurance companies do not pay for it. It is concidered cosmetic surgery.

  85. I think that anyone who wants to Circumcise their boy should have to watch a video of a boy being circumsized and pay a high fee of over a grand and sign forms that they will be found accountable to the damages to the child including trauma and death for putting their child through such a ruthless, barbaric, and needless pain!
    They should all be properly informed of the risks!

    I know this will never happen but I can hope!

  86. I have seven children, five are boys, all intact. I'm in Canada where the circ rate is about 50% i believe. I thank God for the fact my OB/GYN was Irish and when I asked him when preg with my firstborn: "So will you be doing the circumcision if this is a boy?"

    "Absolutely not! I do not perform cosmetic surgery on infants! You north Americans don't understand how unnecessary and harmful it is to perform this on a wee babe! If you insist on surgery, you'll have to find someone else!"

    Wow, I was only 19 and had never considered other alternatives because "everyone did it". So thank you, Dr. M. you saved 5 beautiful boys from from cosmetic surgery. Those boys are now 16, 15, 11, 7, and 4.

  87. It's 2012 economically and intellectually advanced nations such as the USA and the UK still allow for the mutilation of baby boys based on no evidence that it's healthier to do so. It's sad if you think about it, added to the fact that some people justify it because an ancient book tells them it's right to do so then it becomes completely absurd.

    I can imagine the future generations to come will look at us with bemusement and disgust and rightly so.

  88. Neither of my sons are, or were, circumcised. This is because I thought it was barbaric and unnecessary torture to do this type of thing to an infant, but, I was asked by the doctor and nurses who were attending me and my newborns several times if I wanted my sons circumcised several times. The nurse left the authorization paperwork that needed our signatures in my hospital room, just in case me and my husband changed our minds. I had no idea that it would kill an infant and I was not informed of this horrific information either. This article makes me think: would we be doing this to girl babies? Why is it being done to boy babies? Why are we all so barbaric as a people, and why are we all using it as an excuse that men should all look the same? Very sad that we as a people continue to torture and kill our baby boys through sheer ignorance and the pressure of social mores instead of trusting our own human instincts. By the way, great article!

  89. I am a NICU nurse. As a part of my orientation I had to watch a circumcision so I could learn to assist. It was awful. I'm so glad I don't work in the area where they do the circumcisions. I have had NICU patients who after all that they had been through were also circumcised before discharge. I think that a baby has spent weeks in the hospital and had major surgery to repair a birth defect then he shouldn't be subjected to this too. Or if a baby has spent months in the hospital because he was born at 26 weeks gestation then we shouldn't do this right before he goes home. These babies have been through enough!! I have also seen babies who had severe bleeding due to nicked arteries that required stitches. I've never actually had one to require a blood transfusion following circumcision but I can see how it would happen. The only time I'm aware of that circumcision is medically necessary is when a baby has severe hypospadias (opening on top of penis instead of at the end.) In these cases the foreskin is used to repair the defect. But this is not done to an infant it it done later (and by a surgeon!) I've always been bothered by the fact that the OBs do our circumcisions not a pediatrician or a surgeon. Many parents ask for circumcision and some are very insistent! I've known parents to look at their baby that weighs less than 1kg and ask when he can be circumcised!!!! Some parents are open to education; but this can be difficult. One barrier I see is that many male doctors and nurses are reluctant to admit that circumcision is wrong for their patients because that would mean accepting that their own penises have been mutilated. Also both male and female medical professionals feel uncomfortable discussing this with fathers. When you are saying "don't do this to your son" you are also saying "this shouldn't have been done to you." On the bright side, my coworkers who have been around longer than me say circumcision rates are down compared to even a just decade ago. Maybe one more generation and this practice will be as scarce in the US as it is in other areas.

  90. The circ doc sez, "Sometimes his whole sex organ gets sliced away---not too sad---since the foreskin we surely flay!" Keep in mind the willing eager role played by the majority of so-called "mental health professionals" in egging on this tree-chipper treatment of normal physiology. The circ doc sez "scream until comatose" and the mental health professional sez "and live by the compulsory normals of clinical mental health!"

  91. I read that the amputated foreskins from infants are sometimes used as an ingredient in cosmetics. Has anyone ever heard of a hospital or doctor discussing how much this is worth to the parents? It seems like anyone who's willing to betray their newborn child by mutilating him should at least get paid their 30 pieces of silver for doing so. Let's start demanding that any foreskin material being "harvested" by the medical industry for use in the cosmetics industry is properly paid for to the infant or his parents (maybe to start a college fund! or, as this article explains so clearly and horrifyingly, it could offset some of the funeral costs.)

  92. Yeah, the hospitals and doctors cash in several different ways; skin grafts, fee for circumcision for doctors and hospitals, anti-wrinkle creams and who knows what else. As long as doctors are uneducated as such about the actual functions of the foreskin, this barbaric practice will continue. If you want to become an OBGYN or pediatrician, you have to perform a circumcision in order to get your license. If you refuse out of ethical reasons, etc., they will not even give you your license to practice as a doctor. If doctors and nurses alone would inform parents about the risks of a circumcision and that it is meant to be there, the rate would go down. We also have 18 states now who do not pay for this procedure under the medicaid program. In these states alone, the rate will drop (like in the Western States) down to 20%. I live in Michigan and the rate is still above 80%. The doctor lobby has been fighting the circumcision procedure for decades even though the state of Michigan is bankrupt. I almost believe that Mid-westerners seem to be more ignorant than the Western States and set in their ways, because everybody they know "does it" or they want the boys to look like Daddy. I fought hard with my friends here (I am not from Michigan but German, who lived in California for 11 years), they still continue to ignore my reasoning, even though I gave them all the pertinent literature and information necessary to make a good decision against this procedure. I worked in the hospitals and I know what their racket is. How many parents were told ("oh, he slept right through it", yeah right, you lying bastards of nurses and doctors. If circumcision would be dropped by Medicaid than we would see a decline here, since almost half the people here in rural Michigan get it paid, so the parents don't even think about it.

  93. I'am so very thankful that I found this site on Facebook. I'am a mother of 3. I have 2 daughters 11 & 14, and my son is 4. When my son was born he had some health issues and had to spend an extra couple of days in the hospital, and because of this the pediatrician said it wasn't safe to perform a circumcision. I honestly hadn't given it much thought (while I was pregnant) as to whether or not he would have this done. I'am a single parent, my son's 'father' hasn't been in the picture since I found out I was pregnant so I only had the thoughts and opinions of myself and my (female) best friend. My son was sent to a urologist when he was about 9 months old, for a circumcision consult. Let me just say, from the beginning I was NEVER comfortable with the thought of my sons penis being cut on. With that said, during the consult the doctor says that my sons penis has a slight curve to it that may or may not fix itself as he gets older. The doctor then proceeds to tell me that when my son was 18 months old I would need to bring him back to have a surgery to "fix" his penis. I ask the doctor what would happen if my son didn't have this surgery. After about 5 minutes of talking to me like I had been to medical school I figured out that he (the doc) was telling me that the point of the surgery was completely cosmetic. Without the surgery my son would have NO long or short term health issues. I left the doctors office that day without scheduling my sons surgery. Since that day I have wondered if i'm doing the right thing by not having the surgery. And I always seem to come up with the same answer, YES! I'am going to leave this decision up to my son. If, when my son is a grown man, and he wants to make that change to himself then he can. But until then, NO ONE is getting close to my sons penis with ANYTHING sharp!! It's so comforting to know that i'm not the only mom that feels this way. Again, I'm soooo happy that I found your page! :)

    1. Anon - I just wanted to say it made my week to read your comment. :) Thank you so much for protecting your son at every step of the way. He is going to thank you himself one day as well. (There are many men, myself included, who have slight curvature to the penis and it hampers us in absolutely no way - we are fully functioning adults).


  95. My son's father told me at first our son had to be circumcised because it was what God wanted. However, I stood firm in my looking up stories and findings. I knew when it came down to it I didn't want to have it done. My son's pediatrician talked to me about it because I explained to her the situation of my son's dad wanted it done. She told me "It is an unnecessary and EXTREMELY painful procedure" She also told me "I personally REFUSE to do them because it is UNNECESSARY". She did tell me if I wanted to have it done and she hoped I didn't, that I would need to make a decision on it within 3 days from his first visit or they would not do it unless it was medically necessary due to a large infection that was not responding to medicine (which she told me was extremely rare but sometimes happens). My insurance would not cover the procedure (the cost would have been $250, although money was not an issue). My son's dad tried to pressure me into doing it and even told me he would pay for it and that if I didn't get it done I was condemning myself and our son to hell. I told him that he was being judgmental and that I think God would go more on the type of person our son turns out to be and how he lives his life. I kept strong and when it came down to it, I didn't get my son circumcised. He is perfect the way God made him and he is intact and I am proud of it.

  96. I was circumcised at birth in 1965. I asked my mother why they did it. She stated so I could look like my father. I didn't respond to that comment but I thought to myself, do daughters and mothers want their genitals to look alike? My father and I never compared penises. As a boy the gland of my circumcised penis was so sensitive and even having underwear on could make it soar. I never considered that if I had my foreskin, I would not have that problem. Even now as an adult, some fabrics feel uncomfortable.
    Moving the clock forward. My ex-wife and I had a son and I was adamant he not be circumcised. My ex-wife went along with it and did not give me a hassle, luckily. My son is 7. He asked why his penis looked different and I told him I looked like him too but the doctors cut it when I was a baby. He thought that was a terrible thing to do and said awwww poor dad.
    I will tell him later that if he feels the need to cut the foreskin off, he can make that decision as an adult. I had a friend who decided to. I think he regretted it. Unfortunately you cannot reverse the process.
    A healthy baby is provided all the necessary parts and nothing healthy or normal should be cut off. I would never consider female circumcision for my daughters, so why would I do it to my son??!!
    Ron - Sacramento Ca



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