503 thoughts on “Off Topic”

        • To be fair, HS won’t re-rip every time CR updates a script on their site. They rip once, and if CR comes back and completely fixes everything later, that’s too bad for the downloaders.

          • Maybe now that CR has killed fansubbing, this is their plan to kill HS.

            (This gets to me to thinking though, other than it “looking right”, why do we put hyphens before Japanese honorifics? We don’t write “Mister-Rogers”. And Japanese obviously doesn’t have hyphens between the name and the honorific.)

              • Plenty of honorifics are free morphemes. We don’t write “D_S senpai” or “Xythar nii-san”. (Hint: the reason is because all orthography is arbitrary)

                • See, I’ve seen -senpai and -niisan hyphenated (I usually try to translate the latter because it’s not really a honorific as such – the former can be translated easily enough but looks more awkward, for sure).

                  I think it makes sense to hyphenate because as said above, it’s not a word on its own really – it’s directly attached to the name. You can argue we don’t do that for Mr and Mrs etc, but the placement of those indicates they’re attached, whereas in English, a word afterwards isn’t immediately obvious as being attached.

                  The only real English equivalent I can think of is John-Boy Walton. Boy isn’t actually part of his name but it’s hyphenated onto it to show that the word is linked to the name (compare and contrast with Little John, which isn’t hyphenated).

                • Speak for yourself! I hyphenate that stuff.


                  You’re not exactly going to find it in style guides, but I’m consistent about it.

                  • That’s what I meant. Most people hyphenate Haruka-neesama etc., even though Nee-sama can stand by itself.

                    The other option, which also makes sense, is to make it all one word, like Harukaneesama.

                    • The way I see it is that if it’s tacked onto the name, it’s an honorific. Each honorific gets one hyphen (because more than that gets a bit unwieldy). Multiple honorifics tacked onto each other get one hyphen each because fuck it, it’s pretty much purposefully unwieldy at that point.

                      Makes the most sense to me to do it that way, anyway.

                    • I wasn’t saying that it should be any other way, since I use the same standard you and everyone else use, but the hyphen seems a little weird because if I were, for example, transcribing song lyrics with an honorific in them, I’d think about using “harukaneesama” or “haruka neesama” instead of “Haruka-neesama” or “haruka-neesama”.

                      Song lyric romaji also has a bunch of strict spacing rules that I vehemently adhere to, but it’s all arbitrary in the end.

                    • I think not translating non-honorifics should be made a cardinal sin. No need for that shit. Honorifics I can understand because of the way the Japanese use them in speech being completely different to how English speakers use them, but there’s no excuse if they’re not honorifics.

      • It’s interesting you say that when these are huge things that shouldn’t go through in the first place, but that’s what v2s are for, for QCing, right?

  1. http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=605572

    >A+ already
    Yay? Not like I was watching this for now.

    no one else is subbing it

    Blue entries:
    Torrents marked as A+ quality are blue in the torrent lists.
    These are exclusive torrents picked by us.
    They represent the best available version of this content.
    There will be no duplicates.
    Only versions that we actually consider worthy of a seal of approval will be listed.

    Maybe Kristen was right about the cartel… or something.

    Herkz: What exactly made this A+? Why not give a “A+” for once to HS (Assuming this a crunchyEdit)

    • Even if it was HS unedited, the addition of TSing, kara, etc. makes it immediately better than HS, ergo, it’s the best available version.

      It’s a bit of a messed up area, I agree, but it’s not completely fucked up.

            • They are the first to post someone else’s work.

              >Only versions that we actually consider worthy of a seal of approval will be listed.

              I hardly consider running a simple script to be worthy of a seal of approval…
              What they do is no different than uploading a raw….no, actually uploading a raw is much harder as you actually have to record it :P.

                • You might as well give A+ to a RAW group as even they put more effort in than Horriblesubs.

                  If were talking CR rips that’s one thing but funimation rips are just cancer without “The Ripping Cartel(lol)”‘s fixes. your free to suffer through your “blue” cancer while we enjoy our watchable cartel “rencodes”.

                  • Giving A+ to HS is not so different than giving it to CR.
                    You’re being an extreme fangirl.
                    Crunchyroll actually gave blood and sweat translating shit that are actually ripped by CR and re-ripped by “The Ripping Cartel(lol)”.
                    Even the terrible streaming raw are used in the shin-horriblesubs around nyaa, as there aren’t effort enough to record a TV broadcast.

                    • …I’m talking about funimation rips.
                      6/10 of the anime i watch is right off crunchyroll…..if avoiding funimation cancer is “fangirling” then yay #Fangirling.

                      also dude crunchyroll hates horriblesubs…giving HS blue would basically be slapping CR in the face :P

                    • I was talking about the “give A+ to a RAW group”.

                      Funimation is just shikatanai but chosing a rip(or an original translation), but most of the should-be-red HS remakes are unworthy.

                      I will just watch it streamed at Crunchyroll directly, as it is better than waiting for a worse/same shit for download and that won’t run as good in my android as it does on my PC.

                    • I thought the red system is meant to be for people who just toss something into an encoder and reupload it as “New”. doing tlc and qc on horriblesubs and adding kara isnt really re-encoding. (I wouldn’t call it fansubing either though. FanEdits seems more appropriate.)

                    • You really care about a single torrent site waaay to much :/
                      if it bugs you that much. just go TokyoTosho, problem solved.

          • But that’s exactly how they felt about Locodol according to Xythar, yet they still gave Blue to FFF. This is also despite FFF’s typesetting being atrocious – they even \an8’d some signs.

            They are inconsistent about their A+. Like when herkz said timely releases are a factor when awarding A+, but still gives A+ to groups that were releasing weeks after the episodes aired.

    • Nyaa can do what nyaa wants to do. It is up to the users to determine whether they trust that system or not. It’s their site, their staff. Just like how I don’t expect them to come to me and say I shouldn’t be subbing a series in CGi, I shouldn’t go to them and say they should be varied in their A+ selections.

      • You are right that the owner has the right to do what ever he/she pleases. I just thought it was interesting (I thought they give A+ only when a show has multiple groups uploading. Maybe that changed or i was wrong.) and i didn’t expect this post to explode that much.

        • The A+ system is a hot fire debate. Bring it up, and the post will explode.

          I don’t know. For me, I think I’ve come to realize that the A+ system is just a system stating what rival fansub groups think is good and what isn’t. So them telling me that I suck isn’t a real shocker. It is an opinion, after all, and they are entitled to it. But you know, I’m not subbing for them, I’m subbing for my fans who think my work is great. So that’s what I’ll do.

    • It feels weird to say this when they localize more than the official English versions of the game did, but Commie provided a solid release, so it’s hard to not recommend them. That said, I haven’t watched any of the other releases, so perhaps Commie’s wasn’t the only strong showing, but it was a strong enough release that I’m sure as long as you can live without honorifics, you’ll enjoy it.

  2. “The staff working on this show have decided to have a little fun with it.

    The anime itself if a slapstick show with references to all kinds of anime and common Japanese memes (俺の嫁 – better known as “mai waifu”, is one such meme).

    We’ve added a fair bit of flavor to this release while remaining as accurate to the TL as possible. If this isn’t your kind of thing, then feel free to watch HorribleSubs, we won’t blame you.

    If you choose to watch it, though, don’t say we didn’t warn you.”

    Kaylith confirmed for new Commie. And just as they were starting to become good.

  3. Really off topic, but does anyone know a good set of 5.1 speakers for watching anime (among other things, but mainly anime)? Some requirements:
    -good sound quality, obviously
    -decent surround sound
    -good bass
    -loud enough to annoy my neighbors.

    My budget is around $700 – $1000. I’ll need a receiver, too, if it doesn’t come with one.

    • It’s kind of true, though. Oyatsu are being dumb as hell with their video source choices these days, citing no other reason than “It’s unethical to use CR” most of the time.

      Well, it can’t be helped. If people want to ruin their shows, it’s their choice, I guess.

      Thankfully Funi actually did half decent with this, so I can watch theirs if I choose to start this show.

      • I didn’t realise nyaa (okay, let’s be fair here: herkz) judged group decisions which may be circumstantial to the actual quality of the releases. Strikes me as a little unfair – did herkz even watch it before criticising? Seems to be basing things on his own bias towards those two particular points and wielding the stick of losing green status with it.

        That makes nyaa look pretty bad and it beats me how he holds on to a mod position there. He’s bad PR if nothing else.

      • There was nothing wrong with the video quality, though. Feel free to provide images for why it’s so terrible, though, and note that in high movement scenes all channels look like shit.

        They put out their release in a timely manner, so herkz saying shit like “i could understand if you released it the same day it aired, but you did not and judging by your previous work, you will not” is pointless. There’s no point waiting for a marginally better source while delaying the show for even longer.

        And every group has their own policies. They may be prioritizing speed for video quality this release, and if they are, why does it matter?

        >are you trying to lose trusted
        Since when was the absolute pinnacle of video quality a requirement for trusted? Following this logic, why the fuck does HorribleSubs have trusted? It’s the inconsistencies with the things the Nyaa mods do that piss people off so much.

      • Yeah, it’s them.

        It’s par for the course for Oyatsu these days, to be honest.

        I think sm’s lost his mind. Unfortunate really, he was an alright guy.

  4. I really don’t understand nyaa mods, blackballing and bullying new groups until they quit fansubbing.
    Are the big 2 groups that starved for new members that they can’t just let the new guys start their own?

  5. Why does Crymore login require a separate WordPress account? That’s just annoying.

    Edit: Wait why isn’t my name displaying as qwerty now? I give up.

    • I dunno. You shouldn’t even need an account. I honestly don’t even know what they do for anyone below author-level.

      If you just want an image next to your name, Gravatar is the way to go.

      • Okay I logged out. Let’s see how this goes.

        Yeah, I think Crymore login is more trouble than it’s worth. There’s some weird interplay between it and Gravatar through WordPress.

        I don’t even know. I’m not going to touch it again.

      • Wouldn’t really call it a downgrade but it feels exactly like BL2, it’s like a DLC where you get to go to the moon (I’m not sure if it’s shorter or longer story-wise though, it feels like it’ll be shorter but I’m probably still half way with 20 hours).
        But that’s enough for me though, I played BL2 for like 80 hours before getting burnt out and I played that at around the time it came out so enough time has passed so that I can throw another 80 at it and enjoy it like it’s the first time I’m playing it.
        But shit ain’t Skyrim or Fallout, BL is exactly the same every playthrough, I’d not be enjoying myself so much if I was replaying BL2 instead of playing the new game.

      • What, are you saying Japanese twitterisms shouldn’t be translated as English twitterisms?

        Of course, I haven’t watched that episode yet, so I can’t really say anything for now.

          • For reference (since now it looks like this post came out nowhere), Lotus was replying to a post where someone said Vivid’s line was just a translation of a Japanese meme. Before Lotus replied to it, they requested their own post be deleted, which seemed fair enough to me. But I was on a flight, so I couldn’t delete it fast enough.

            Anyway this explanation probably wasn’t necessary, but I’m sitting on the tarmac for another flight and have nothing else to do.

              • Dictionaries are there for you to look up the occasional word you don’t know (preferably in a J-J dictionary). They’re not a substitute for experience with the language and they’re definitely not going to tell you if something is a ‘meme’ or not. I mean, EDICT says もんぺ means “womens’ work pants”.

                Salama’s line there is entirely 2ch netspeak and, on a more general level, her main character gimmick is that she’s a social media freak who tweets about stuff constantly. The entire point of that line is to establish that aspect of her character, so if the line doesn’t get that across, it fails as a translation.

                • I never said I understood the line, neither I was correct.
                  The line is just weird and there is obviously more to it than she says.

                  • “I don’t understand the line, but it’s obviously wrong”.

                    Please, listen to yourself.

                    Anyway, that’s the full story. I’m open to suggestions as to better ways to handle it for the batch, but so far all people have done is nitpick the “soccer mom” based on modern definitions of the term (which is kind of missing the point) or suggest we use TL notes instead (lolno). It seems fine as it is to me.

                    • Why don’t you tell your translator to enlighten us?
                      Also, ‘modern definitions’? Hell, this is a social networking lçine. Why fucking use a 80’s(?) term here? I’m don’t even need to be native to know that you’re not making sense.

                    • You’re not making sense when you point the finger at me without explaining where exactly am I wrong. Try proving your point before flaming who’s agains’t you next time.

                    • As a translator, I’ve gotta say, the “hashtag ‘happening'” line is clever as hell and 100% appropriate. Hardly worth complaining about unless you like your translations dry and flavorless.

                    • And therein lies the problem, BlackDragon.

                      People don’t like it when TLs and editors experiment now. It’s stupid, but that’s the way it is.

                      If you don’t adhere to the Japanese exactly, you get accused of meme-subbing.

                      It’s pathetic.

                  • If that’s the same LotusGG that complains on UTW’s website for their choice of raw without having any actual “relevant” knowledge, then I’m not surprised. He’s got a knack for complaining.


                  Since it’s Vivid, I’ll trust you.

  6. It must be so cozy inside your brain, Lotus.

    @ Sage
    Each time I post this comment, it winds up somewhere else. Your comment section is seriously fucked.

  7. Sorry for breaking your site. :(

    EDIT: Wow, this was supposed to be a brand new comment thread, but now your site’s placing comments in the wrong places.

  8. I’m not sure whether to laugh at the broken comment section or at Lotus complaining about the hashtag line.

    Edit: Definitely the broken comments. Fucking comment went all the way to the top.

  9. Why asuka-subs’s Amagi(vivid edit) is marked red and almost every other subs’ almost every anime(horriblesubs edit) are not?

    • A better question would be: Why are releases that use HS’s video source and make their scripts (not only that too) worst not marked red?

    • They’re rippers, not a fansub group. That’s like asking if encoding from a TV source would warrant a “remake” because they’re taking raws from someone else.

        • He’s trying to say you should consider CR as a source, not a fansub group.
          But still, like I said above, releases which make the CR subs worst and even use their video on top of that should probably be marked as red (or at least not be green), but that isn’t happening.

          • You could also just say that some people shouldn’t bother in the first place, which I’d wholly agree with. But going through the trouble of wading out such releases sounds like wasted effort to me, so I’m not complaining.

            If you’re on this site, you probably know enough to make an informed decision regardless of the color of the torrent. Then again, if you’re on this site, maybe you don’t.

            • Funny you say that because being on this site has proved me that I was wrong time and time again, but colors don’t really matter to me to be honest, I see them as just something that Nyaa mods use when they are pissed at someone or something (like removing trusted for certain releases or marking torrents red, giving trusted status to someone because “they’re known” or whatever, etc) so I don’t trust those too much (not just that, just the fact that Commie is probably the group with the most blue torrents speaks for itself and for those who judge said torrents).
              Imagine all the drama though, that’d make it worth it.

          • That could be done, but then logically we’d also have to go after the groups that insist on using original translations and video sources that are worse than CR, and it gets kind of messy.

            Plus, in the end, it’s usually a subjective manner as to whether a group makes CR “worse”. Like, I think Hatsuyuki make CR worse in almost all their edits, but they clearly believe otherwise. I like the system we have now because A+ is the subjective measure of quality while trusted and remake are as objective as we can make them.

                • Their encodes generally aren’t that bad. I think the fact that everyone now uses that one instance against them is an example of this.

                  • Yes, Hatsuyuki is well known for having staff that know what they’re doing and a lead that knows how to manage groups.
                    The reason everyone uses that example is obviously because we all watch their stuff so much it’s hard to cherry pick, and not that everyone out of habit avoids them.

                  • Yeah after being linked to all the places talking about this I’m sure they would.
                    Too hard for them to catch during QC, though.

                    • To be fair, this isn’t really the kind of thing a QC would catch, nor anything that almost anyone would catch unless comparing encodes. That doesn’t excuse the poor encoding, but blaming anyone but the encoder isn’t really fair.

                      I’ve fucked up in similarly spectacular fashion before. It’s the kind of thing you only do once.

  10. At this point people are just trolling Nanatsu no Taizai by submitting random subs or Nyaa has a filter that auto-deletes every release with Nanatsu no Taizai in it that isn’t Chyuu’s.

  11. DameDesuYo probably has my favorite KFX of the season with the OP in their Trinity Seven release. Is it just me, or are a lot of releases lazy this season? Whereas this one matches well and manages to animate nicely too. Really the only qualm I have with it is that I don’t get why they suddenly switch from simply coloring the letters to skewing them around. It works well enough on the line where the grimoire is falling, but doesn’t seem to match anything else.

  12. I just remembered that a football blogger that I like (Zonal Marking) all but shut down his site because he got scooped up by The Guardian and ESPN.

    If you’re writing an anime or game review for the New York Times, D_S, let us know.

    • “Who cares if the script has a few typos? Hardly any viewers are English literate enough to notice, and even fewer care. Look at these comments! This is your audience! Do they seem concerned with an accurately translated, cleverly edited, error free script? Fuck no. They are barely literate in this language. Just release the damn movie. Besides, anyone with actual interest in [email protected] has been studying Japanese and only needs the subs as a crutch.

      And troll harder.”

      It got removed from Nyaa for being a troll.

  13. Request:
    Sage, please consider writing a post that lists notable figures who come here regularly and produce shapely comments, thereby rendering this site much more pleasant to visit.

    This being a blog which encourages people to take delight partly in appreciating your fluent English, I understand it won’t do harm to give special recognition to those who are likewise talented. A handful of names pops up in my mind:fnord, FalseDawn, and so on.

    It would be fun to see top crymore contributors gathered in one place.

    • fnord as a top contributor? Are you retarded? I only keep him around as a jester. If you take him seriously, I suggest you find a site more suited to the special needs of the lobotomized. Try commiesubs.com.

      • Contributor in the sense that he leaves comments that function as spice. Didn’t say I take him seriously. I like the look of what he says. Your description of him as jester may not be far from mine, but in a sense slightly different.

        And nah, commisubs.com doesn’t suit me, their comment section mostly being abundant with grateful or demanding leechers. I enjoy reading neat exchanges of comments ocassionally held here, and this site will remain the sole place I will visit that is related in any way to fansubbing.

        I saw someone suggest on one of your posts that you rank people by the amount of their comments or something and thought it a good idea.

      • Holy moley – was the TLWiki one based on the CR script or an original translation? Because they’ve wrecked the nuances of the CR translation completely. You’re not meant to rewrite the show when you’re translating and editing. The whole characterisation (of the character using an obsolete/obscure word which outfoxes the other character) has been shredded to pieces in that section.

        And that gets an A+? Wow.

        • Of course, I’m only working off the CR/Chihiro script so it’s possible they got it wrong, but unlikely that they’d make it purposefully more obtuse than the other way around.

        • The point is that Michiru is not very intelligent, and not knowing the word “osculate” is not a sign of being unintelligent. Many educated people won’t know it either. Right now what you’re taking away is that the main character came up with a really obscure word, when really the point of the scene is that Michiru is a retard.

          I like this adaption, personally. It’s not perfect, but it’s a hell of a lot better than “osculate”.

        • TLWiki is from the VN translation, so their translation technically came first. CR’s was done independently for the show.

          And seppun is not that obscure (certainly not as obscure as “osculate” which I’ve never even heard used outside of anime translations). The joke is more that Michiru is dumb (in the Japanese she mistakes it for “seppuku”, hence the reference to samurai).

          • Okay, so perhaps less heinous a crime than I first thought. I see how CR got to their line though – they backformed the joke from the ‘samurai’ reference, using a word that sounded like one be in those times. Yeah, not the way to go with it. Loses the joke pretty much.

            But I’d argue that the ‘first base’ misses the mark as well, in that it doesn’t really show that Michiru is stupid, just that she’s never heard the phrase (which I’m perfectly willing to believe as it’s pretty American-only) – mistaking the meaning of a phrase is very different to not knowing a word and then *guessing* the meaning from a similar-sounding word. My issue with that isn’t so much that it failed to hit the mark but that it went miles out of its way translation-wise to still fail, meaning that by the end of it, a lot of new info that wasn’t in the Japanese is being added to keep up with the metaphor. In my mind, you’re on dodgy ground when you start significantly changing portions of text in that way. You might get away with it in dubs but not really in subs.

            When you say ‘from’ the VN, do you mean literally lifted without any TL check? Because that’s not exactly good practice >.>

            • The guy who translated the VN is a better translator than most people in fansubbing. I’m pretty sure his stuff is fine, and reputable translators who have watched the TLWiki release agree.

              I doubt CR backformed the joke; they probably just looked “kiss” up in a thesaurus and ignored the rest. In any case, their script for that part is not funny and doesn’t make Michiru look stupid, so it fails on both counts.

              • Not sure if I phrased that right (from your response). What I meant was that lifting wholesale is a bad idea regardless of how good the translation is because the VN != the anime. Unless the director/script writer has been ultra-faithful to the original source :s

                Though, by the sounds of it, the translator of the VN was actually involved in this release? That would be a different kettle of fish, for sure.

                Also, do you really think CR goes thesaurus mining for the sake of it? I doubt that somehow. There is a logic behind what they came up with, but it kills the joke. It’s a failure of outcome rather than outright laziness/ignorance.

            • I don’t really see the problem. TLWiki’s translation isn’t perfect, but it’s funny and makes sense, and it’s largely true to the characters as well. CR’s translation is neither funny nor true to the characters.

              This section and similar ones are precisely the reason TLWiki was given A+, and I will always support such a decision again.

              • How did CR’s version not stay true to the characters? Even in Yuuji’s case using a more obscure word makes him look smarter and Michiru not knowing that word makes her look dumb, not knowing a certain term doesn’t make her dumb, I’d say it makes her look clueless more than anything, you might argue it’s funnier (personally they are both the same to me) but that it sticks to the characters better than CR isn’t really true.
                Outside of this, well, it better stay true to the characters otherwise taking the text directly from the VN would be pretty stupid, still, I don’t think it works in anime form, but that’s up to you.

                  • No, and that’s exactly the point, maybe making her look dumb isn’t really right but it makes Yuuji look a lot smarter than her.
                    Either way, not knowing what “first base” means doesn’t really make her any dumber than not knowing “osculate”, and it doesn’t make Yuuji look smarter, in a way it makes her look dumb in comparison to him which works to some extent.

                    • “it makes Yuuji look a lot smarter than her.”

                      That’s not the intended effect.

                      How hard is it to understand that there’s a difference between making someone look like a pretentious academic and someone else like an idiot?

                    • It got the point across to me though, obscure word or not that scene just reinforced the idea that she wasn’t the smartest and thinks she knows more than what she does and won’t own up to it.
                      Now, if you were to isolate this scene from the whole show, yeah, all you’d probably get was that Yuuji was smarter and the latter part of what I said above (to some extent it’d make me think less of her anyway but that’s just me) but there are been plenty examples of things like this before, I think making her look less smart here worked just fine and still sticks to their characters (it’s not like it makes her look smart by not knowing the word or make Yuuji look too smart for knowing it, as for making him look pretentious, that’s kinda his thing, he’s the one who asked for non carbonated water or whatever, and I doubt that’s because Sachi is literal with everything).

                    • What I’m trying to tell you here is that I know what that scene was trying to do and it got the point across and I didn’t need to watch TLWiki’s release to understand it, you seem to think otherwise, can’t really do anything about that at this point.

                    • Well, good for you, then. Really. If you personally got the point, great. I accept that – unironically.

                      But I believe translations should be judged according to stricter standards than that. And seeing as how I happen to be one of those doing the judging, I will keep applying those standards.

                      I’m not disputing that some among the numerous watchers of the show may have gotten an accurate impression of Michiru’s character from CR, but it still remains a greatly inferior translation.

                  • I’ve heard it. It’s not like it’s a word that ever gets used unless you’re purposely looking to be obtuse, but it’s not some mystical, unknowable thing. I’d put it on the same level as masticate. Sure, I know that means chewing food, but I’m probably just going to use chew in daily conversation.

                    Not that I disagree that translating the whole joke over to a different metaphor was the right decision or anything. Maybe there was some way to make osculate work here, but they didn’t do it, and and I definitely prefer the TLWiki version as is. Like fnord said, it’s not perfect, but it’s definitely better than the alternative.

                • Nobody can be faulted for not knowing ‘osculate’. Reading CR’s translation, all you get is “okay, she tries to cover it up”, but it doesn’t tell you just how much of a moron she is.

                  You can argue that not knowing an American idiom is a different kind of stupid than not knowing a rare word, but I don’t think it has a lasting impact on the character. In the end, she still doesn’t know something you can be reasonably expected to know, and she comes off as stupid.

                  CR’s translation makes Yuuji sound pretentious and Michiru prideful, which is not the intended effect, so the translation is an utter failure.

              • I suppose it’s the age old question of literal vs liberal. For me, the TLWiki smells a bit too liberal and that there must be better middle ground for that scene, but I concede that this is just my personal opinion and that the “mainstream” fansubbing standards now occupy a space further along the liberal scale to my particular tastes (which I never envisioned happening!).

      • They ought to change the A+ rules to “something watchable and better than the rest”, blue kinda lost it’s meaning when Commie started gettig 10 of them per season, just silly now, and TLWiki’s script is so awkward, it’s like I’m reading the novel itself.

              • We know you gave those blues only for the sake of having a convincing argument! It’s a conspiracy aimed at The Syndicate!

              • Your point? Doesn’t change the fact that everything Commie does is pretty much considered to be A+ unless they put a dick in the OP.
                And on that list the only group that shares a show with Commie is eraser.
                At this point I think nyaa just looks at whatever is airing and just gives out blue if only one group is working on it, that or fansubbing is truly saved.

                • http://www.nyaa.se/?user=76430

                  Commie has A+ for ten currently airing shows (Yama, Denki, PP2, Twintail, Shigatsu, Terra, LH2, SMC, AotD, Yowa) out of the eighteen they are subbing. Commie is also the only option for eight of those shows, meaning that Twintail and SMC are the only shows for which Commie was even awarded A+ over another group (and given that pretty much every other group on SMC has dropped it, I think it was a pretty good call). I don’t consider 55% to be “pretty much everything”.

                  On the other hand, Commie has lost out to other groups for A+ on three shows (Bahamut, UBW, Chaika) and of the remaining shows, no A+ was given at all.

                  Yes, we try to give out an A+ when possible. If only one group is subbing a show and they don’t fuck it up, that group will generally get A+ as long as the base translation is acceptable (it isn’t always; see Ookami Shoujo). But there is no particular Commie bias in the assignment, and in fact I would say Commie misses out on A+ far more often than many other groups.

                  What Commie does do is sub a lot of shows per season, most of which they are the only option for. Personally, I think that’s something that should be encouraged.

                  • Yet UBW and Chaika are being subbed by the people who got A+ on them in previous seasons, and Commie only subbed F/Z out of those, so really, they only lost on Bahamut since the there’s no reason to change A+ groups from season to season.
                    I imagine Bottom Biting Bug is in the same situation as Cross Ange, I don’t even want to imagine what is happening to that.
                    But hey, I guess Ookami Shoujo isn’t that good then, Commie isn’t perfect after all.

                    • UBW was not treated as a second season to F/Z and the teams are different anyway. So it was actually just Chaika, leaving seven other shows (not one, as you seem to want to spin it)

                      I get the feeling you wouldn’t be satisfied unless they received A+ for zero shows per season, however. I apologize for having to treat them fairly instead.

        • You /are/ reading the novel/vn translation itself. Herkz worked on the vn and has direct access to the script(or at least he should.) All he has to do is copy/paste lines and time. The script sounds kinda awkward at times because it wasn’t made to be an anime script. In other words, it was meant to be read as prose, not dialog found in an anime. They didn’t do any kind of adapting. See: why you have elongated words like “Whaaat?”

    • http://www.crymore.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/TLWiki-Grisaia-no-Kajitsu-03-2740CAD4.mkv_snapshot_02.14_2014.10.24_19.29.34.jpg

      is really A+ tier.

      Honestly, nyaa simply chose TLWiki because herkz was involved in it and it wasn’t Chihiro, because Chihiro is related to Kristen (Even though Kristen isn’t touching anything in Chihiro outside of Locodol for the forseeable future).

      There is nobody outside of nyaa staff members and their direct fanboys who agrees with this decision. However, if you mention it, they will come at you and be like “Oh, we liked the TLWiki translation better and since we know Japanese more than you, your opinion is invalid”, as they already have done. Of course, this will completely ignore the complete lack of cropping, typos, and awkward dialogue.

      Honestly, why don’t I just get Kokizzzle to translate something for me and slap it on a raw, since it seems that TL is all Commie’s staff, oh wait, nyaa’s staff cares about.

      • Koki would probably produce a better translation stoned out of his mind than some so-called translators currently active professionally and unprofessionally with their editors in tow, so I have no doubt that is exactly what would get A+.

        Also, why do you pick that screenshot out of all the others? The TLWiki script has legitimate issues, but that line isn’t one of them.

        Why are we debating this? Are you saying Crunchyroll has some kind of amazing script? I never said CR’s script was horrible trash, you know?

        Why on Earth are you so obsessed with A+ decisions?

        Translation accuracy overrides almost all other aspects of a release, and only once (if my memory serves me right) was a less accurate release given A+ because the script was otherwise much better.

        Why are we talking about this? Do you have some kind of legitimate issue you want to talk about?

        And if you want to know why a decision was made, why don’t you ask me on IRC? Do you think I’m going to bite your head off?

        • Also, why do you pick that screenshot out of all the others?

          Because it’s clearly wrong. It should be “I”. “Ah can’t be a bride anymore” is a typo.



          Why on Earth are you so obsessed with A+ decisions?

          More it’s fun to mock nyaa’s decisions.


          Yeah, the complete lack of any consideration to any other aspect of a release. Giant black bars are not A+ material in any case, and the editing was D grade material. I don’t care if Kokizzzle translated it or if Jaka translated it, there are aspects of a release that can vastly override translation accuracy.


          As I said, I’m mocking the decision. I honestly don’t care about the show or the decision as I have no part in subbing it. I just find it hilarious that time and time again, nyaa makes decisions that are against what anyone except the nyaa moderators believe, and they seem to be OK with it.
          Further, if I ask you on IRC, I’m not just asking you. I am asking the entirety of the nyaa staff, and 5v1 never goes pretty in a chat room.

          • “Because it’s clearly wrong. It should be “I”. “Ah can’t be a bride anymore” is a typo.”

            I just want to strangle you right now!

            She reverts to Kansai-ben under stress. ‘Ah’ is Scottish for ‘I’.

            Giant black bars? You mean the giant black bars that the show airs with on purpose?

            Look. I’m just going to stop replying now. It’s obvious we have a very different taste in subtitles, otherwise I’m sure you’d agree that my position is both reasonable and tenable. I’m wasting my time here.

            • Oh, and for what purpose? For the purpose of showing the video in a wider screen version than what is currently available via broadcast. Same reason why AT-X aired shows like Maria-sama ga Miteru S4 with black bars years ago. And look, people cropped it. Oh, are you also saying that Ghibli films should be left uncropped 1920×1080 instead of the 1920×1038 since they put black bars in? Or how about Eva 3.33?

              Grisaia is made by 8-bit, not Shaft. Things like black bars are not meant to be part of the release, and if this were to air at a movie theater, I can guarantee you that there wouldn’t be black bars on it.

              • I downloaded the IBO release out of curiosity to see how cropping the video would affect sub placement, and to be honest I prefer the black bars in the video. It felt strange seeing the subs so high up when there was plenty of space otherwise available to place them. If I was at a movie theater with a 2.35:1 or whatever aspect ratio screen, sure, cropping them out would be the way to go (or if I was watching raw for that matter), but watching a fansub on my 16:9 screen just feels more comfortable with 16:9 video.

            • Even if I don’t understand Japanese, I’ve watched enough anime where I can tell if someone is speaking Kansai-ben when I’m listening to the Japanese and reading the subtitles. I don’t think it needs to be translated into some ridiculous Scottish accent which breaks my immersion.

              • Unfortunately, not everyone can be expected to understand when someone suddenly reverts to a different dialect in a language they don’t know.

            • >‘Ah’ is Scottish for ‘I’.

              Well shit, and here I was thinking she was actually just repeating the word, like she sighed twice or something.
              I did notice the accent thing and kinda understood and thought it was the reason why the line was kinda awkward, like she was skipping words because she was nervous, guess not.

          • Just throwing my two cents in.

            As said above, her kansai kicks in anytime she’s embarrassed/stressed/flustered. Are you just picking arguments without even knowing what you’re arguing or something?

            Can’t comment on black bars since I’m not a (good) encoder, but anyway – completely off-topic and unrelated to anything(as I said, I’m just throwing my two cents in; not purposefully trying to argue against you): the script was originally made to be prose, not an anime script. TLWiki just copy/pasted lines from the vn and timed. They didn’t adapt the translation for anime. See: Why you have lines like “Whaaat?” The lines actually work when being read in the vn. Kusion and fotc are having to rework a good portion of the Mikakunin manga script because the lines just don’t work well in manga whereas they worked and fit for the anime. Dialog is still 1:1 exact with what was said in the anime; it’s just that taking lines meant for one media to another comes off as awkward. That being said, that doesn’t give the TLWiki anime release a free pass. What they tried didn’t work and that’s all there is to it.

            If you PM him you’re not talking to every other Nyaa mod. What do you mean by 5v1? Are you trying to reverse the judgement or something? If you want to know why/how an A+ was decided just a nyaa mod. Groups I’m in have done it before and they were pretty friendly about it. Just don’t expect them to reverse the decision or write walls of TL;DR about how X release is better and should have gotten A+. They’re doing nothing more but giving you the information that decided who got A+.

            >More it’s fun to mock nyaa’s decisions.
            I hope you know your conspiracy theories and posts like these make me nerd rage hard. I’m assuming other people are the same as everyone else on the site just mocks and/or picks on you because of it.

            • Whoops time limit went off as I was editing this post.

              Anyway, even more tangent: I haven’t seen the CR script besides what Xy posted of the TLWiki and CR comparison, but I’d have a hard time believing CR handled the jokes as well as koestl. I’m pretty curious to see how (if it even shows up) CR translates the みたらし団子(mitarashidango) joke. That shit was fucking clever.

              Whether the comedy in the script is funny to you is purely subjective, I realize. A good part of this series is the comedy. If something is supposed to be funny and fails to make me laugh, in my opinion it fails as a translation. Again, that’s purely subjective and entirely my opinion. If the viewer wanted jokes that made sense and maybe even make them laugh, they could watch TLWiki. If they wanted jokes to be translated 1:1 and make 0 sense (or if they somehow get a kick out of that for some bizarre reason,) there’s CR or another group. Nyaa’s A+ decision is purely subjective and their own opinion (you never know, maybe some people prefer their translations a certain way.) I don’t know why anyone would take it as law, same as fansub reviews.

              • It really depends on what you consider a joke, aside from that comparison I don’t really remember any dialogue-based joke in the rest of the series, unless you consider stuff like “can’t be a wife anymore” a joke which I guess there are a few but I don’t see why CR would mess up a one line joke when it’s meant to probably be literally translated anyway.

            • This just in, Crymore reviews will solely consist of scores now. If you want more information behind the decisions made, please feel free to PM Dark_Sage on IRC. If you don’t PM me, I’m afraid the only logical conclusion is that you’re mentally ill. Sorry to break it to you like this.

              • To be fair, a couple Nyaa mods were willing to share some observations about a show I’m doing this season before their A+ review was completed so I understood where I might’ve made a mistake, which also gave me a chance to elaborate on something that might’ve been misinterpreted. I approached you with a similar request before the season, but you declined. Now, I certainly appreciate that you seem to like my work, but there’s a tradeoff between having the opportunity to see that thought process beforehand and being provided more detailed notes after the fact. Just some food for thought–I don’t have enough experience with either party to have much of an opinion on how one system’s merits may outweigh the other’s.

                • The reason I declined is because I’m not keen on playing favorites in my reviews. If there’s an argument to be made against something I write in a post, I’m happy to listen and amend it accordingly. But if I start pinging only the people I’m friendly with before the review, asking them to sway me into skipping out on a critique, then I’ll only be contributing to the circle jerk that killed fansubbing in the first place.

                  • I guess that’s just a matter of how much you trust your judgment. Neither I nor any other subber can make you change your mind on something, but I can’t fault a man for being responsible enough to keep his own faults in check. On the other hand, putting the onus on the subject to correct possible mistakes after something’s been published is, in my opinion, a bit unprofessional. Another tradeoff, I suppose.

                    • I think you’re approaching it slightly wrong though, Jing. The reviews D_S puts out aren’t battering you over the head because of a few typos but an illustration of the kind of quality you should expect from a given group on something they’re releasing. The emphasis isn’t on those mistakes to be corrected per se – it’s not one of those “in episode 22, 13 minutes in, you have a typo” – but more that a typo has made it into the final release which, coupled with other examples, could show a lack of care when it comes to QC.

                      In short, this site isn’t really for other subbers (except maybe to check up on what others are putting out) but for the viewers who are trying to decide which group to watch. If that makes sense.

                      For what it’s worth, even though D_S is often stubborn as hell, especially when you disagree with him, he has changed stuff in his reviews when ambiguity/misinterpretation has been pointed out to him.

                    • But only when leechers or non-cartel subbers (whatever that means) pointed out wrongdoings to him. Remember cage in KnK?

                    • I only take relevant comments into consideration. So if you and your friends feel like you’re being ignored, maybe the problem is on your end rather than mine.

                    • Maybe, but it *is* his site, so he doesn’t really have to do anything on anyone else’s say-so. All you can do is disagree in the comments and let everyone else make up their own minds – more people will side with you if your argument makes sense over what D_S posits. No point making drama out of it (unless you’re going for a high score in internet points, of course).

                      As I say, at least he sometimes changes what he writes and isn’t so bullheaded as to assume he’s completely infallible – even if he does sometimes stick to his guns on some pretty questionable points.

                    • Oh, no, I’m not saying he’s unwilling to bend, and he’s even updated things on a show I did before. Has nothing to do with typos, actually. Understanding the writers’ thought process just gives a critic the ability to make more informed decisions.

                      I don’t really know where you got the “other subbers” idea from–that’s not my point at all. I can recall some dialogue in FFF’s ESP being regarded as a mistake because neither the reviewer nor the subber was able to discuss it before the review was published. Thus, people who read it looking for an idea of which release to watch got the wrong idea, and may not have bothered to check back later to discover that the review itself had invented the error rather than the tl/editor.

                      Frankly, being put at a disadvantage from the get-go makes me far less inclined to engage in a discussion when issues could just as easily be resolved before hitting send.

                    • Uh, since when were reviews ever looked over before publishing? I’ve never heard of that being a ‘thing’ in any field. Plus, a reviewer isn’t meant to know what’s going on in the tl/editor’s head – they’re meant to watch the episode as a leecher would. After all, leechers don’t have the luxury of going up to the editor and going “what the hell were you going for there?”

                      Maybe I’m just not getting what you’re asking for? D_S isn’t a PR machine, he’s a self-styled reviewer.

                    • You’re extrapolating a lot more from this than there really is. An opinion piece should be written by someone with a proper frame of reference to judge any sort of creative work. Whether or not they agree with some stylistic choice is completely up to them, but lacking the requisite background knowledge to provide legitimate criticism in those instances leads to a misled audience. As for our field, it’s not like this is Hollywood–there’s a very direct link between the two parties here. It’s a very simple matter to just ask the person a question on Rizon.

                      If certain lines can be reconsidered at all, then the reviewer clearly recognizes those errors for what they are when he revises the relevant sections in his article. The fact that it’s a necessary step at all is more a condemnation of the critic himself than anything, but nobody’s perfect, and I’m not here to insult anyone’s intelligence (except Kristen’s). Being as well versed in the material you’re reviewing as the people behind that material just seems like good practice to me. That’s the same reason I trust you to QC my work, for instance.

                    • You’re suggesting that D_S questions the staff of the release for things he doesn’t understand when it’s actually your fault for not being clear enough in the subs to begin with, if D_S doesn’t understand something there’s a decent chance other people won’t understand it either, and people should be warned about the possibility of your release being “too complex”, personally, I don’t consider that to be misleading at all. It doesn’t apply to every type of review but in this particular case I think the reviewer should have the same amount of information as the leecher, no more, no less.

                    • Apparently those few paragraphs alone were too complex for you already. I am the one who offered. I never said anywhere that he should approach anyone first.

                      Besides, any relevant concerns I had on the one episode of mine he reviewed were cleared up perfectly amicably. Don’t read into this. I’ve got no qualms with anything he’s written about my scripts.

                    • From the way you worded you make it sound like D_S needs to have every information he can get his hands on to make a professional (somewhat hesitant to use “good” here) review, unless you’re just talking about reviews in general and not offering any suggestions or anything, then feel free to ignore me.
                      Bottom line is: him openly questioning you and you openly answering to whatever misunderstanding there was is a lot better than both of you talking on IRC about it, no matter who offers or asks to do it, him understanding you before making the review will only help him and, to some extent, I guess, you.
                      If you disagree with me that’s fine, just giving you a leecher’s opinion on the matter.

                    • After the review it’s really up to you and how you handle criticism and if you want other people’s opinions outside of D_S’ on the matter or not, won’t really comment on that, but for the most part it’s usually in the reader’s best interest that your thoughts are out in the open, but again, that’s up to you.

            • It’s not like CR is wrong, I imagine what he is trying to say is that one or two errors shouldn’t be the same as having an actual good script or better encode or whatever or that a good TL shouldn’t automatically mean A+.

            • A release with 290/300 lines correct with flowing dialogue and amazing typesetting is better than one with 292/300 lines correct with robotic dialogue and \an8. Usually, this is what the translation differences amount to. But it’s easy to exaggerate 2 translation differences of out 300 lines to amount to life and death.

              This isn’t Hadena tier we’re talking about. This is a professional sub company against a VN translator.

  14. >decide to watch Majokko Shimai no Yoyo to Nene
    >get Watashi release
    >Nene-chan translated as Li’l Nene
    >Yoyo-san as Sister Yoyo
    >Li’l Nene
    >eventhough Nene is bigger this must mean she’s the younger sister
    >halfway through the movie
    >joke about how Yoyo is actually the older sister
    You done fuck up, Watashi. There was a line, and you crossed but apparently that wasn’t enough for you so you went for another lap. Never again.

    • That was brutal and hard to watch.
      Personally I didn’t like this series too much and it’s kinda of a waste they aren’t using their powers for cool stuff but it has been improving in my eyes, episode 4 was especially good but this thing with Hatoko broke my heart, can’t do that to best girl, not cool. While the chuuni stuff is a bit of a turnoff the characters’ interactions and the way they are expanding one character at a time is pretty good stuff, and it has been less haremy, at least compared to episode 2, that was bad.1

    • I go through the spam filter every few days, so no worries. Post rescued. Try not to use BBCode with a URL unless there’s a good reason to, though. The spam filter ain’t so keen on it.

  15. Why are dubs so god damn localized all the time? I’ve been playing Valkyria Chronicles and the subs are the direct text from the dub and stuff like “masaka” gets turned into “sounds like a tank”, “tasukete” ended as “it’s so dark” once and “sugoi” somehow ended up as a joke/pun about a bug.
    It’s painful.

    • Because there’s more room to be provide a localized experience when you don’t have to write to the subtitles. Simply put, they’re not targeting a subs-preferred audience.

        • Think about it this way: they’re targeting an audience who normally consume American or Western media, so they would want it to be as “Westernized” as possible. A lot of this shit is aimed at people who don’t really consume much Japanese media (at least not in it’s original sate).

      • A certain terrible anime board always streamed Toradora, one episode a day in December. It’s basically tradition. Except this year no one’s streaming and everyone (read, newfriends) has forgotten about it. I’m just trying to figure out where it’s being streamed, because not having Toradora in December is like not putting up Christmas lights.

        >I guess I could, but it’ll be the dub version.
        Ugh, pls no. Rather write some reviews, or something.

    • Well is fansubbing that has unique translations and lots of effort into its typesetting also just theft? I still love what most fansub groups do, just not HS.

      • All of it is theft, regardless. No fansubber owns the video or audio they’re attaching subs to, so every single fansub you’ve ever watched is in violation of copyright law. There are very few fansubbers out there who would claim otherwise (and those that do claim otherwise are idiots) ;)

        • It also spreads awareness of the show. A lot people I know end up archiving BDs for the shows they’ve watched from a fansub group.

        • I’m not debating here. It’s just I read this small piece on simulcasts and fansubs and it moved me. “It’s the blood, sweat, and tears that go into every release that makes an episode enjoyable. A good fansub will make an anime much better than it originally was, and that’s something you can’t find in official subs.”


          Sure it’s technically illegal by copyright, but I appreciate this mindset and this dedication.

          • Okay, you probably didn’t understand the context of what I said – I’ve been involved in fansubbing since late 2005, so I talk from experience when I say that any fansubber who thinks what they’re doing isn’t illegal is a certified nutcase. Now, we all have reasons for what we do (in order to justify to ourselves why we do it) but trying to distinguish between how illegal one method of subbing is over another is just plain ridiculous.

            The awareness argument hasn’t really been valid for a long time now – since simulcasts hit their stride, in fact – so not buying that one. And trading on past victories doesn’t really cut it either. Yes, fansubbing did bring Japanese animation to the Western masses. No, that isn’t a good argument for it still existing :p

            I read that at the time and it’s a bit misguided to think that the rise of simulcasts is a *bad* thing. Before CR came along, there was a lot of fansubber chatter about the industry needing to do something to make fansubbing obsolete so that it could make all this revenue it was missing out on by not being part of the digital age. Fansubbers *wanted* the industry to sort its act out.

              • I’m not sure I understand your question, so I’ll take a guess and answer what I think you’re asking :D

                Nearly all (possibly all, in fact) the series on CR aren’t available to viewers in Japan because they’re already shown on TV there. Though I’d imagine there’s an equivalent of Hulu they have if they want to watch anime online – it’s just that CR and the other anime streaming sites out there are for the international market, not the Japanese market.

                And sure, buying a DVD/BD is the main revenue builder for anime studios – but they’re now getting the additional revenue of the streaming sites which they weren’t before. As far as ‘awareness’ goes, you can watch all CR subs on their website without a membership one week after the episode has aired (I’m not sure on Funi and Viz – I think they only show the first ep free), so I’m not sure why you’d think fansubbing is linked to international Bluray sales. Might have been the case in the past, but definitely not a huge factor with the rise of the simulcasters.

                • Most of the money in the industry comes from merchandise. “Awareness” for a series is a very, very good thing because it gets international fans buying merch. The money that the industry makes from international streaming is miniscule.

                  Why do you think most anime studios don’t give a shit about fansubs and how many producers in the past have said they’re a good thing? Ever wonder why CR hates fansubs groups? Because CR is the one that’s losing money because of them, not the industry.

                  • Fansubbing has nothing to do with awareness now as you can watch most series on official streaming sites for free. I agree that in the past, fansubbing did help boost ‘awareness’ but now, it’s by and large, obsolete.

                    The reason anime studios don’t usually go after fansubbers is because of how difficult a legal conviction is, but they have sent C&Ds in the past – though notably before the advent of CR and other legal streaming sites, which indicates that fansubbing isn’t as much of a problem to them as it was.

                    You can’t keep trading on the past when the market has changed substantially in the last few years.

                    • What I’m saying is fansubs have literally no impact on the anime industry in Japan. If anything, anime studios still benefit from fansubs as they boost awareness. The only people that fansubs hurt are off-shore streaming sites like CR etc. That’s why CR is campaigning against fansubs and not anime studios themselves.

                    • Nope, not accurate. From what I’ve read of the CR model, the anime studios get a cut of the membership payment proportional to the number of members that watch the episodes on CR (and I’m guessing that works for the ad revenue from non-members watching too) – so a popular show with a lot of viewers will make more money *for the studio* than a less popular show. However, if people watch fansubs, they’re not adding to these viewing figures and are thus denying money to the anime studio.

                      So no, fansubs as they are now do more to hurt anime studios than “raise awareness”.

                      (Shinji, the head dude of CR, outlined it in an AMA on Reddit, I believe – at least, I *think* that’s where I read it – no pun intended)

                    • In March 2013, Crunchyroll reported that they had 200,000 subscribers. Subscriptions then were $7 a month, giving them an estimated revenue of $14 million.

                      This season, they are streaming 48 series. Multiplied by 4, that’s 192 series in a year. But that’s counting some twice since they stretch through multiple seasons, so let’s say it’s 160.

                      Let’s pretend CR and Japan split revenues 50/50. So 7 million per year, divided by 160 is…
                      $41176 per series.

                      If this math is correct, then streaming equates to an additional 514 BD sales (assuming BDs at $80 per disc). BD series stretch for 6 discs, so that means it really comes down to a sale of an additional 86 BDs per disc.

                      For reference, an average show like “Majestic Prince” sold 2,700 BDs of a single disc in the first week. So streaming revenues come down to about 3% of the total revenue, if we exclude other merchandise like toys, cds, and books.

                      And all this is assuming all shows get equal watches. We all know that a hugely disproportionate amount watch Naruto compared to the the other series.

                      All in all, what does it mean? It means that while fansubbing does hurt Japan in ways in that people aren’t watching the streams, it isn’t a huge deal in the slightest.

                    • Which would certainly back up your argument somewhat (though, how you think denying anime studios *only* 3% revenue is an excuse to fansub, I don’t know) if those numbers were the whole picture – but they’re not:


                      CR may have 200k subscribers per month but they get 10 million visitors in that same period. And streaming isn’t limited to CR – there’s Daisuki, Funi, Viz and even Hulu.

                      The reason fansubbing doesn’t really hurt the anime industry so much these days is because it’s relatively small now (compared to what it was) and the studios have managed to monetize a whole platform they hadn’t before. But justifying fansubbing as “raising awareness” when streaming sites already have that largely covered is delusional at best.

                    • How much exactly this that advertising worth?

                      I can’t find crunchyroll’s exact cost, but I believe their ads are 5 cents each view. This is coming from youtube costing 30 cents each and getting 360 times the views that crunchyroll gets.

                      Crunchyroll claims to have 45 million ads viewed in a month. This, times 0.05, times 12, is about 27 million a year. Assuming the same 50/50 split, this is still only an additional 172 BDs per disc, about 6% of total revenue.

                      Yet, take a look at fansubbing. FFF’s Love Live got 140,000 downloads throughout the entire series. I am pretty sure 50% of those downloads were automated RSS downloads that were not watched – as is the case with every show by every group. But, for arguments sake, let’s say it’s 140,000. If every person there went to crunchyroll and watched the 4 ads that come with the video, that’s $0.20 per person. Or, $28,000 for the series. Split 50/50 with Japan, Japan would get $14,000. At $80 per BD, and 6 discs per series, that would mean Japan lost the equivalent of 30 BDs per disc. Compared to the 40,000 BDs they sold per disc, this is a drop in the bucket.

                      Granted, I don’t think anybody is logically arguing that fansubbing is good for the industry anymore. It is in the most logical of sense taking money right out of their pockets. It’s not like the 2000s when fansubbing raised awareness of the series and made it more likely for the show to be licensed. Nor is it like the 90s/80s where it introduced the otaku culture into America with VHS subs, creating the first demand for anime in America.

                      Then again, maybe I’m just biased. I never liked Crunchyroll since they started licensing anime. They got their popularity by uploading fansubs without permission from the groups that made them, and now they’re making a buck off it.

                    • It’s certainly coming across that way. It’s also pretty clear that you didn’t read any of the link I posted because you’re still positing a 50/50 split on all money when there’s a big bold subheading that says: Most of your money goes straight to the industry.

                      Rather than attempting to pull numbers out of thin air to justifying your “reasoning”, maybe it’s just better to say that money going back into the anime industry is a good thing for avid anime viewers, no matter how much that might be from any one source.

                      Plus, you really need to let that go now, Kristen. It’s been legit for 5 years and while I admit, I and a lot of people were somewhat put out by Crunchyroll’s original ‘business model’, it’s pretty hard to deny that they’ve completely changed the landscape of anime viewing (and fansubbing for that matter) in the Western world and given us (with moderate success) what a lot of fansubbers back in the day were asking for all along: A way to watch anime online that also gives back to the industry so that even more anime can be made.

                      Of course, it’s not without its faults (as with anything) and I can see the argument for better typesetting etc., but as I say, the line of “it doesn’t hurt the industry” is a bad justification for doing what you do if that’s the only argument you can actually put forward.

                    • First, sorry. I did read what you linked, but I have a big tendency to be very skeptical about corporate speak. Like, he refused to say numbers but said “a majority”. If it was a large majority like 90-10, he’d have said that to make CR look better. Since he didn’t, I highly suspect it’s like 55-45 or 51-49. He also only specified it for subscriptions. His lack of specification of ads make me believe that it is much less from there. I should’ve mentioned something about it to show you I read it, but I forgot to.

                      Second, it’s not so much skepticism as it is disapproval of their success. They built their popularity on fansubs that they could get for free, supporting the fansubbing community in ways, and then turncoated and are making millions of dollars in profit because of it. I just feel that it’s wrong that things that I did for free to get anime out to people faster is getting used now to make someone else money.

                      Third, no, I don’t like the idea of everything getting simulcast and them getting kickbacks of it. Haven’t you noticed the severe decline in the quality of anime lately? They’re getting complacent and no longer trying to put out anything good.

                    • First, you’re speculating without evidence so I can easily dismiss that without evidence xD

                      Second, nothing you did for free is being used *now* to make someone else money. Also, I’d imagine there are far more people subscribing now than there were in their non-legit days. Not to mention the huge backlash when they went legit overnight – I wouldn’t be surprised if they lost a lot of users then and there, and have had to build it back over time. Their monetizing of fansubs pre-2009 (which as I’ve said, I didn’t appreciate either) has nothing to do with what they’re doing now, five years later.

                      Third… Did I just read that right? Are you really advocating giving anime studios no money for their output but taking their products anyway? :S That’s… really not a sensible position to take.

                    • No, what I made is not directly making them money now. But it was a foundation for making money now. If the subs from all the speedsub groups back in the day (because CR took the first group to release regardless of quality then) were not taken against their wills and listed on CR, then they’d have never grown as big as they did. Without the fanbase, nothing would have been licensed to them, and they would have made no money. So while they aren’t selling Chihiro’s Vampire Knight directly, they still have many of the same fans who came to the site to watch it, and are now paying them.

                      And no, I’m advocating not licensing every show out there before it comes out. Let’s say 10 shows were simulcast a season instead of 40. Then maybe, just maybe, studios will realize they can make more money with an actual good show instead of the typical “Oh, let’s fall off a ladder in the library onto a guy and have a panty flash” anime.
                      Or maybe even To Aru Majutsu Index Season III. >.> <.<

                    • As I said, I wouldn’t count on the fanbase being the same – I think a lot of people up and left when they went legit and it’s only their work since that has brought people back. I understand your distaste for their origins but this was five years ago now – if you haven’t made your peace with it by now, I don’t think you ever will :x

                      Well, regardless of whether you or I like it (I wish there were less of those too), that stuff seems to sell surprisingly well which is why they keep making the shows. The only real way to stop those shows getting made/streamed is to stop buying/watching them en masse, but good luck that ever happening :/

                    • You can’t on one hand say CR/Fansubbing (for better or worse) has a negligible impact on the Japanese rights holders (which I completely agree with) and on the other say that the quick bucks they get from licensing everything out to a bottom feeder like CR is causing them to seek quick cash. The amount is paltry, according to your own estimates.

                      For the foreseeable future, Japan will continue to make the things that it believes will sell in Japan, with very little if any regard for their overseas markets.

                      I don’t deign to assess the taste of the Japanese audience. The Japanese certainly know their own audience better than we do, so if they believe those people want generic shit, we will all get generic shit.

                      CR and/or we have no substantial part in this equation.

                    • I don’t feel like reading all this but I just hope you guys know CR pays whoever owns the rights to broadcast the series, the TV channels, and this is usually a fixed amount, doesn’t really matter if CR makes a billion a year, they just pay for the rights to stream the anime once and once that license runs out they either re-buy it or stop streaming it all together (what they mean in that article is that they take the money and put it aside and will buy the license again when it runs “giving everything you paid to the only anime you watch”, this helps know which shows to drop since they won’t have enough money allocated to re-buy the license), while BDs usually don’t pass through the TV channels and go straight to the studio, in case the studio is even part of the investors, otherwise it gets nothing one way or another.
                      I’m no expert on the subject or anything and might as well be pulling things out of my ass but my 2 cents, I do like how that article frames the whole deal real nicely, it’s not misleading but you shouldn’t take it at face value.

              • Also, by archiving, I’m guessing you mean buying rather than literally ‘archiving’ BDs found online because that doesn’t produce any revenue for the anime studio at all, no.

      • Actually, all fansubbing has a different form of legality attached to it. It’s all illegal, but it different ways.

        Horriblesubs is definitely the “most illegal” of the groups. They are taking subtitles owned by CR, and video licensed for use by CR, and redistributing it while trying to gain revenue via donations. Both video and subtitles falls under US and international violations.

        Those who take the CR subtitles and put them on a new encode, no matter how it is done, are the next most illegal. Because once you take the Japanese .ts or BDMV and encode it, you don’t fall under US copyright law for the video. Crunchyroll has no claims over the BD or .ts distributed in Japan.

        Those who make their own translations and put it on any video are the least illegal of the three (naturally, Japan .ts being less illegal than CR video). When you make your own translations, you actually own the copyright to the subtitles you produced. If a company were to put a show out with your subtitles on it, you could sue them. Of course, if you did that they could countersue you for using their video. But regardless, it is a legitimate case.

        All in all, there are various levels of legality covered by what groups do. Regardless, it is all illegal.

        • Sorry, but that’s bollocks. Crunchyroll still has the copyright on their scripts if you take them and put them on a different video (and I’d imagine if they were to go for reparations, they’d do it in conjunction or on behalf of the studio as well, meaning they’d go after the video part too) and while it’s true that a translation has its own copyright, you need to seek the original copyright owner’s approval to do the translation beforehand. In effect, that means you couldn’t sue anyone for stealing your translation because you didn’t get approval in the first place to do that translation. This will set you right if you want to read it:


          There is no distinction on how illegal one iteration of fansubbing is other another and it’s silly to push the myth that there are differing “levels of legality”. Using that argument to justify the type of fansubbing you do (rip/partial-edit/original translation) is nonsensical.

          • Few things. First off, I never claimed that CR doesn’t have right to their scripts if you took them and put them on a different video. They just cannot sue you for infringing on their derivative video’s copyright, as you did not use their video as a source. You’d only get 1 count of US copyright infringement instead of 2.

            Second, yes, producing a translation without permission is illegal. However, as you linked, it is still a copyright regardless of how it was done. As such, the studios cannot use your translations in their retail releases. But regardless of the whole legality there, you are only looking at international violations in that case.

            But no, there are definitely levels of legality. Just like how there is 1st degree murder, 2nd degree, 3rd degree, manslaughter, and homicide, there is different intensities of copyright infringement.

            • No, Kristen, no. If CR were to go after you for use of their script, they would do it in conjunction with the anime studio because I’m not sure if you’ve realised but CR license their shows for internet distribution (in their case, via streaming but the license isn’t specific, I don’t believe). Legally, this is exactly the same as if an American company licensed a show for DVD – they can demand recourse in the same way.

              I’m not entirely convinced it would be illegal because after all, the translation wasn’t authorised making it null and void as a legal entity. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t be able to make a claim against it for that very reason.

              And that analogy doesn’t work because the different levels in those cases are down to intent, not the outcome. The intent in this case was to knowingly infringe copyright and no quibbling information about whether it’s ripped or an original translation changes that in the eyes of the law.

        • This is legal nonsense, and I hope nobody buys into this. Law doesn’t know the distinction of “more illegal” and “less illegal”. Doing something illegal or not is binary. We’re not defending our cocaine stretched with baking soda to a crack bum.

          Almost all countries worldwide are signatories to the Berne Convention, and hence there is nothing about the fansubbing process that isn’t illegal, regardless of where its material originated. Encoding from a Japanese transport stream is completely identical to ripping Crunchyroll’s video because all countries recognize the Japanese copyright status of the transport stream.

          The copyright to video, audio, translated script, and the rights to a translation are all internationally recognized and enforceable. Nothing you can possibly do in fansubbing lessens your offense or alters it in any way.

          The only reason why you’re not getting busted for downloading Japanese transport streams is because the Japanese aren’t deeming it worth the effort of going through the American justice system.

          • No, there is as it is a matter of how many charges of copyright infringement you’d be accused of if caught.

            Like, let’s look at Hanamonogatari, for instance.

            herkz would be in violation of 4 counts of copyright infringement for uploading CR’s version. US copyright infringement on the video, US copyright infringement on the subtitles, International copyright infringement on the video, and International copyright infringement on the idea/product.

            CGi, who took the CR subtitles and put them on a different video, would be guilty of 3. US on the subtitles, International on the video, and international on the idea/product.

            Damedesuyo, who took the Japanese video and made an original translation, would be guilty of 2. International on the video, and international on the idea/product.

            It makes a big difference because the number of infringements could determine how much the fine is.

        • No shit, you’re aware you need permission to even attempt translations, right? Since fansubbing is illegal in all of its forms, you have no rights on any “original” TLs.

  16. Q1 this year there was a big japanese movement to bring down big sites of illegal anime distribution, and many brazillian sites where among there(one of them which I fansub to) because of their ad plans that generate a lot of money. The biggest site of the list (anitube) revenue would be over $50k a month of ad profit over the server costs, and it didn’t even shake.
    Some sites, however, went down on the fear of being sued and thus nothing great happened, causing the remaining ones with even more visits and more revenue due to the increased traffic and ads profit. The sites were all appointed for “advertisement model”(or something like that, maybe I forgot the name) for using their content to profit over advertisers.

    • Yeah, I mean let’s get real here – it’s very unlikely that any fansubber will be taken to court for fansubbing simply because of how costly it is to bring something like that to trial as well as building up concrete evidence to get a conviction. So while fansubbing is illegal, it’s really unlikely you’ll get ‘caught’ for it. It’s also really hard to stamp out – I mean, look at the piracy issue for TV and movies. Hollywood has an abundance of power to sue people left, right and centre, and everything they do *still* hasn’t put a dent in the problem (though it has legislated against torrenting and makes ISPs send out letters if you’re dling something you shouldn’t in my country, which is annoying). What chance do the relatively small Japanese anime industry have of denting fansubbing?

      I think the site attacks they took against distribution sites were just testing the waters to see if it would change anything, but by the looks of it, it hasn’t really stemmed the flow at all.

  17. Hey Dark_Sage,

    The new anime season starts exactly 3 weeks from today. Think you could get the Winter preview up on time? Totes makes more sense that way.

  18. D_S, it’s been two months since the Zvezda OVA came out and no one appears to be working on subs. Is there someone you can blackmail or threaten with physical harm in order to make it happen?

  19. D_S, what do you think about terrorism?
    What would you do if your plane were hijacked by half-naked white men with hairy armpits?

      • You get blue on TV release for encoding reasons only to convert to BD releases is moronic, considering that BDs are encoded from a different source and commonly by a different person.

        But it doesn’t matter. Nyaa is run by a bunch of inept and/or biased parties, so it’s just more fun to laugh at them than expect anything else out of them.

        • What’s so hard to understand about getting blue on TV = blue on BD? They’ve said this before, mate. It’s as simple as that. I don’t know what to tell you if you can’t comprehend that.

          • Yes, but in all those cases they mentioned script quality. In this case, they have outright said the script quality was equal and encode was the defining factor.

            Pretty much, they determined their BD Blue by differences in the TV encoding. This is plain inept and biased, so it’s nothing more than I’d expect from them.

            • If the staff is the same one (or almost the same) that worked on the TV version, the BD version automatically gets A+’d. And encoding BDs isn’t at all different than encoding from CR’s 1080p encodes.

              Also, you might wanna actually work on Locodol instead of shitposting here.

              • Shows how little you know about the show or the situation. FFF used CR 1080p, Chihiro used TBS. So with different sources, there is no actual comparison done outside of “The blurry CR was preferred over the sharp TBS because it needed less cropping”.

                But I’m not too surprised tbh, that a nyaa moderator would not understand the situation. After all, we all know the real reason why FFF got A+, both on the series and now.

                • “After all, we all know the real reason why FFF got A+, both on the series and now.”

                  Yes, because they’re better. (・‿・)

                    • Jing, I know you haven’t compared the series. Probably not even watched it.

                      But if you don’t have the brainpower to understand a veiled insult, I’ll explain it to you. I had honestly never heard of you before you backstabbed Kaylith. So, curious, I watched a few episodes that you edited to see how good of an editor you are. God damn, you either need lessons on English or need to talk to people more, because those subs were just so clunky and unnatural. It was like you took a 4-year old and made them edit it. I’m surprised Commie’s standards have fallen so low. I guess that’s what happens when you zergsub shows.
                      In other words, take your own words to heart and try to not be bad at what you do.

                    • >backstabbed kaylith
                      Mate, what? Stop it. He picked up Shigatsu at Commie after it was dropped at Kaylith.

                      Also, if you’re going to just insult his editing, I’d at least post up lines you thought were bad. The same could be said for his saying FFF’s locodol was better, of course.

                    • I dunno, man. I’m doing five shows this season, and all of them got blue. You seem to take that rating very seriously, so that’s gotta count for something, eh? Even the darkest of sages enjoyed my Shigatsu. He’s always correct and unbiased, right?

                      Merry Christmas :)

                    • Sure Jing. Keep patting yourself on the back with those blues that you asked the mods to give you. Or did they make you a mod already so you could do it yourself?

                    • You’re consistent with the conspiracy theories, I’ll give you that. Yes, Nyaa mods love my company so much that they’re willing to ignore their rules and better judgment to grant me free e-peen.

                      Just to be clear on where we stand, while I’m over here patting myself on the back, you’re in the corner crying over some crappy show. But this has never been about quality to you. You’ve been left out of the cool kids’ clique, and that makes you sad.

                    • Jing, you know I used to be in with Nyaa, right? He used to host the CGi website, and gave me a personal listing for my torrents. Hell, he actually set up my site for me. And when A+ came along and I asked about it, he asked me what shows I’d want to be marked A+, and to flag them. No review, no nothing. That’s why CGi’s DtB S2 is marked blue when BSS produced a better (yet incomplete) BD.

                      It’s not a theory. It’s a practice.

                    • When he set up your site and did you all these favors, did he think you were a girl?

                      Either way, that’s not a practice I’ve ever taken part in, but it /is/ a little alarming. How could you let that go on? And I thought you had ethics on your side… Sasuga memecartel

                    • No, he did not. I kicked XMtS out of my apartment in April 2010 (for stuff like freeloading, blasting music when I was trying to study, and constantly talking negatively about me behind my back), and that was when he decided to spread that rumor. Nyaa did all that stuff for me in the summer following.

                      As to how I could let it go, the answer is pretty simple – I didn’t. Within 2-3 months of nyaa doing that I was gone. Since that day, CGi has never gotten another blue, even for shows with no options other than the blue TV airing (with whose subs were used).

                    • You asked me questions, I answered them. That’s all there is to it.

                      The thing to realize is that nyaa’s policies haven’t changed. They still have the same trends as back then when they showed themselves to be biased and corrupt. The same groups are getting A+’s even when there are really big reasons for them not to (Commie’s Twintails and Nisekoi are two examples that come to mind), and at the same time groups not involved in their inner ring are constantly shafted for minor or made up reasons. They have yet to do anything to prove otherwise.

                    • Weird. FFF and Commie both did Zankyou no Terror, but the mods preferred Kaylith’s version.

                      And you didn’t really answer my question. Why should I care who your roommate was and what he might’ve made up about you? That doesn’t tell me what motivated Nyaa to do something or how you responded to his supposed “corruption”.

                    • Look, Kristen, if you have examples of Jing’s edits that are “clunky and unnatural”, then I’m sure we’d all be willing to see them.

                    • Oh, I’m sure I’ve whiffed on some lines here and there. But I’d be curious to see the ones in Shigatsu that he found so cringeworthy myself.

                    • I’d hardly call giving Kaylith, who is essentially a pocket group of nyaa, A+ over another pocket group of nyaa worthy of note. Try and find a better example if you’re trying to make a point.

                      The whole roommate thing is just a little bit of backstory on the event. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel a little hurt how after I wasted almost $700 on him and his comfort and endured his backbiting comments and was essentially chased out of my own apartment to study, he decides to spread a rumor that still haunts me to this day. Meanwhile, he is sometimes praised for spreading that rumor in the first place.

                    • No one considered Kaylith a “pocket group of Nyaa” before they got recognized for their work on Terror. All you’re doing is retroactively applying logic that’s not even based in fact in the first place to a situation you know almost nothing about. That’s the definition of a conspiracy theory. Talk all you want about CoalGirls and Nyaa and whatever happened between them in the past, but don’t pretend you can lecture me on the way things were with Kaylith when I was there myself.

                      And seriously, I have no idea what this rumor is. You decided to call yourself Kristen–are you saying it’s this roommate’s fault for making everyone believe you were a woman?

                    • You’re mistaken. Xythar and I were the only Commie devs in Kaylith during the summer season, and we both joined Kaylith at the start of that season. I joined both groups at the same time, and chose to work on Terror with Kaylith because that’s where a team was available. Others joined Commie later because they wanted to work on more shows, and they’d already proven themselves during the summer season.

                      But in any case, what does it matter? We did the best job on Terror, and the mods, among others, agreed. I didn’t know there was any sort of stigma attached to any of these groups when I first joined them, and from the outside looking in, what we’re talking about is ridiculous. I just saw that they had some smart people on their staffs–the kind who don’t let the quality of their work get bogged down by this sort of quasi-political bullshit–and took their tests because I wanted to work with them.

                      You’ve yet to offer any reason for me to change my opinion, but I’m still here giving you that chance. Unfortunately, all I see is a grown man crying over spilled milk.

                    • “the kind who don’t let the quality of their work get bogged down by this sort of quasi-political bullshit”

                      Um, you do know Commie threatened to kick brainchild out because he worked with Chihiro? And he is (or was at least back then) one of the best editors I know.

                    • BTW, I have no reason to try to change your opinion. You are a traitor, and I don’t care what you believe. I’m only responding here because I find your responses worth a laugh at how dense a person can be.

                    • RHE’s an idiot, and he hasn’t actually done anything in a long time–certainly not since I joined. So if he really did tell brain to do that, we can agree that it was ridiculous, but my point still stands.

                    • The irony in that statement could be used to treat anemia. You don’t know the circumstances of what happened, and yet you’ll cling to your version of reality just to negate the validity of what I’m saying. If you’re going to live under a rock forever, why bother peeking out to talk to anyone at all?

                    • Jing, don’t you get it? How many incidents do you have to see to piece together that there’s something fishy going on here? Brainchild’s threat. DtB2 auto-A+. Questionable nyaa decisions such as Commie A+ for Twintails and Nisekoi. CGi red for Monogatari S2. DDY losing trusted status for Hanamonogatari.

                      Over and over, these events keep happening. They have for years. And at some point, I would really hope someone to have half a mind and believe in something other that “oh, that’s a lot of coincidences”.

                    • @Kristen
                      “[Brainchild] is (or was at least back then) one of the best editors I know.”
                      Oh look, he even did those Oreimo s2 subs you refused to use. Not to mention the exceptional lack of quality in his Servant x Service. He may have done some good work in the past, but I’d hesitate to call anyone who’s put out releases on the level of Servant x Service “one of the best editors I know.”

                      “Jing’s editing is clunky and unnatural.”
                      I’m curious what work of his you watched, because Shigatsu, Terror, and even the couple episodes of PP2 I watched all flowed pretty well dialog-wise, and even episodes he admits he didn’t do so well on can hit a C on here, which is still definitely watchable.

                      “DDY losing trusted status for Hanamonogatari.”
                      If you watched their Hanamonogatari v1 and then any other version, even the v2 they did, and don’t think that the TL in the v1 was so abysmal that it deserved to lose the trusted status, you must not have payed any actual attention to the subs. You can’t even make the claim that losing the trusted status was about the group itself, because every release they have besides the v1 is still trusted.

                      As for other questionable blue decisions on nyaa, if you ask nyaa staff they will typically explain why decisions were made. Though from the reasons given for Nisekoi I believe a number of complaints were hardly justified, and a number of Commie’s issues ignored, most of the time the explanation the mods give will be valid enough that even I, who has been on the “bullshit nyaa bias is bullshit” train for quite some time, will accept it.

                    • >Which is why Kaylith was loaded with staff members who work in groups like Commie, FFF, etc.
                      uh, you do know Kaylith took up almost all of EveTaku’s staff who still fansubbed, right? Seriously, like every fansubber for EveTaku who still had an interest in fansubbing joined Kaylith. I think it’s kinda funny how you only seem to only see members as being from Commie and FFF or other, as you call them, “cartel” groups. I know damn well you said “etc.” but that’s really the only groups we shared members with at the time that fit into your “cartel” conspiracy theory. Kaylith also had more than a handful of exclusive staff. The “cartel” staff we had hardly did anything but maybe provide transport streams and/or edit one show as far as I remember. Not to mention, a lot of EveTaku staff branched out into groups such as FFF and UTW like season of IS2 or maybe before. According to your illogical conspiracy theory, that’d also make EveTaku “cartel” and therefore Kaylith even more so “cartel” because it shared members in “cartel” groups, right? You set the rules yourself so everything falls in place to be like you want it to be. Please, stop it with the whole “cartel” shit. It’s childish and annoying. It makes me nerdrage every time I see it. Who would’ve known people who have an interest in something like working and talking with other people who have the same interests? It’s almost as if it’s just like how things work in the real world.

                  • Which is why BDs are sharper than TV, right furzee? Because they post-process them?

                    Obviously not. Different sources = different sharpnesses. You can see it in your comparisons, even though they were a couple of hand selected frames of MPEG-2 artifacting.

                    But you’re missing the point. The result of the differences in because of the SOURCE, not because of the ENCODE. Assuming Chihiro’s encode would be worse than FFF’s because the BD is similar to 1080p CR has no basis.

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