Sunday, July 18, 2010

Waldorf Rant - Part 1

  Wooden blocks, silk capes, wooden swords, beeswax candles....
I am traumatized for life.

  When my ex husband and I first visited the Pasadena Waldorf School, we fell in love with the campus. Lush and large with children playing outdoors. A calm and joyous environment where children climbed trees, knitted caps, and painted and crafted daily. The focus on the arts was especially important to us since most schools consider the arts to be a frivolous, wasteful expense in an educational setting.
  Meeting with the head of school at the time, I was happy that she worked with me to ensure that my daughter would get into the 1st grade class. She was gracious and warm and kind to our daughter.

  After leaving a rigorous private school, it took a while for our daughter to get used to the Waldorf style. Although the feeling of happiness is all around, the teachers are strict and sometimes rude to the children. Getting used to the morning rituals and chanting. Songs about God and nature. Learning to never talk about media or pop music. Giving up wearing any kind of logos or sayings on shirts. Picking out sneakers became difficult. Where do you find shoes for kids without logos? Our daughter was afraid to wear a shirt that had any words on it. Yet, she was happy there. We all made great friends and our children played together often.

  When our second daughter was ready for elementary school, we enrolled her into kindergarten.
  By this time, I had become very involved in the school. Helping with the annual Elves' Faire, the newly begun Art Festival, and any and all fundraisers. I truly believed in the school's philosophy and the promise that my children would have an excellent education.

  Our youngest daughter loved hip hop music and all pop music. It was her goal in her short child life to be a diva and sing. She would play music often at home and could not resist singing and dancing. I received a call from her kindergarten teacher alerting me to thew fact that parents were upset about my daughter's singing. Not only was she corrupting the other children with music, but it was pop music. The teacher told me that parents were complaining because their children were coming home singing pop songs. In addition, could we put a stop to her wearing sparkles to school. No sparkly tennis shoes, headbands, or shirts of any kind. She was 5 and 6 at the time.

  When I spoke to my daughter about this, she mentioned that her teacher had talked to her about her clothing and singing already. Unfortunately, this was the beginning of my daughter's paranoia about what she could and could not do. She started to ask me everyday if what she was wearing was OK. She was afraid to sing outside of her room. Her shirts were sometimes too short and her belly would show when she played. She got in trouble for that as well. She started to check her shirts constantly to make sure they were pulled down over her belt. Luckily she had a couple of friends from preschool who did not got to Waldorf, and she could be free with them.

  Finally my ex and I were called into the school for a serious meeting with our daughter's teacher, head of school, and two other teachers. They proceeded to warn us about our daughter corrupting the other children. Her clothes were completely unacceptable and we should buy from J. Crew. Instead of pop music, we should expose her to world music and live music. No radio. She was still too sparkly. Every once in a while some piece of clothing had a sequin or sparkle on it. That was unacceptable. It was as if our daughter was some kind of kindergarten sparkle criminal with a malicious urge to sparkle all of Waldorf. And this was a very SERIOUS concern.
  Needless to say, I was confused. How could a school with so much love and happiness be so critical and judgmental? Is this what we signed up for? Was the school going to start infiltrating every aspect of our home life? We already stopped watching TV and listening to the radio in the car. We only packed nutritional, organic lunches in recyclable containers. We purchased the outrageously expensive required basket for our kindergartners' lunch (the handles broke after two months). Both my ex and I were confounded. I did not like that my daughter was being treated as a troublemaker for something so random and innocent. At 6 years old!
  Because Waldorf is a private school, it does not adhere to the laws governing public schools, or any laws as we we would soon discover. Parents are ruled by the school. I tried talking to the teacher and different members of the faculty only to be told to do what they ask and our child will benefit greatly. Any resistance on my part would have a negative impact on my daughter's education. So we did everything they asked. Did not question the ridiculous nature of what was asked, but went along with the herd. It was beginning to feel like a cult.

  This was the beginning of the slow and painful end to my love of the Waldorf School. There would be much worse incidents to come and one terrible, traumatic experience that left me and my family traumatized for life. I can no longer stay silent.


  1. I have to say: the first time an allegedly intelligent adult told me that I had a 5 year old that was "corrupting" other five year olds, my first action would be to ask them if they knew what "corrupt" actually meant and my second would be to find another school. Or maybe no school at all.

    I feel for you. Isn't it sad that this kind of thing happens to parents (and children) whose only motivation for being there in the first place is to turn their children into decent, educated, caring human beings? What a nightmare ...

  2. How tragic that they would squash the spirit of such a wonderfully sparkly child. I hope she was freed before long.

  3. Yes... She is free now. We love the public schools in our area and I will never go back to private.

  4. As a parent from the Denver Waldorf school, I think it is important to note that not all Waldorf schools are like this, they aren't all so strict. It is unfortunate that this school has taken what is a wonderful base and something that can be so whole -- and corrupted it with the typical ego filled crud! Sorry you had a bad experience!

  5. I agree with you Andrea. There is a reason why this particular Waldorf School has not been accredited. The people who run the school are pretty deceitful. It was a huge disapointment because I really loved the philosophy and people there. It would be nice if schools could have a little of the whole child teaching integrated into regular public school. A balance would be nice. But our public schools are pretty wonderful. We are lucky.

  6. Having sent my eldest son to a Steiner Waldorf school in the UK, I understand every word.

    Glad to hear you escaped. I hope your daughter is still singing and dancing and wearing lots of sparkles!

    You are far from alone, I've posted my story here:

    Best wishes


  7. Anonymous...Thank you for writing such a perfect article. It describes exactly what we went through. And, unfortunately, I was one of those parents the head of the school and staff went after with a vengeance.
    My daughter's teacher started a relationship with her father (my ex) and all hell broke loose after that. Instead of protecting my daughter, I was banned from the school so I could no longer have any involvement with my daughter's emotional well being.
    Obviously, we left the school. It took a few months for my ex to agree to leave (since he was dating the teacher). He finally saw how depressed our daughter was and we switched to public school towards the end of the year. My children today are still traumatized by their experiences at Waldorf and my oldest is writing a story about her experience.
    I understand the need to remain anonymous. They ruin you...As they did me.
    Really, we should all be suing the schools for a failed education. My kids were two and three years behind...Public school.


  8. You were banned?? I'm so sorry, what an absolute nightmare for you and your children. The behaviour of the movement is horrifying, as you say they are not schools they are a cult. It is fraud on a massive international scale.

    In order to try and understand what happened I have spoken with many families worldwide over the last few years. What is striking is when a family complains and begins to ask too many questions there appears to be a pattern:

    1. When the parents complain and request a meeting, the school deliberately procrastinates delaying the parent alerting the authorities.

    2. A meeting is finally arranged where a very different (Anthroposophical) interpretation is given by the teachers/trustees in an attempt to manipulate the parents into thinking there is no problem.

    3. The parents become so frustrated they make contact with the authorities.

    4. The school may expel the child at this point and start a smear campaign telling the community (including the children) there is something wrong with the parents/child who has filed the complaint.

    5. The authorities request the notes, the school 'loses' the notes.

    6. In order to further suggest the parents/child are at fault a trespass notice is issued.

    7. When all else fails the schools have been known to make anonymous calls to social services.

    Have you seen this website set up by a family in New Zealand?

    Regarding suing the schools, I understand a California school district is facing a lawsuit over the hidden religious nature of Anthroposophy. The trial begins tomorrow:

    and yes you're right I think the time has finally come where parents could take a massive class action against the movement for breach of contract.

    Very best wishes to you and your family

  9. Hello from Sweden!

    I am a regular teacher who was deceived in a similar way as presumptive parents are. If the real requirements upon me would have been presented prior my signing the contract, I would never ever have signed.

    There are many with similar experience as yours.

    In Sweden, there is a blog maintained by a former Waldorf pupil, where I participate as "qaqlqfqa-qoqmqeqgqa". The blog is partly written in English (approx. 50%).

    The woman (qzqoqoqeqy[dot]qwqoqrqdqpqrqeqsqs[dot]qcqoqm), who maintains the blog, has been net-stalked, as were some of the mothers at "qmquqmqsqnqeqt" (a British parent's forum). For this reason, in all words, which may be used by the net-stalker scanning the net, contained in my ad here, I submit a "q" att the start and between the letters. (For example, a name "John" is thus written "qJqoqhqn".)

    To start with I would like to bring qPqLqAqNqS (CA), containing personal accounts, to your attention.
    Also qRqoqgqeqr qRqoqwqlqiqnqg's (USA) account.

    I can submit links to particularily interesting threads at "qmquqmqsqnqeqt" later. Your experience is just one in a row, I am sorry to say.

    I am sorry, the caution with "q" may be necessary for not drawing the net-stalker's attention to your blog.

  10. Thank you for your responses Anonymous.
    They are very good at working the paranoia aspect.
    Unfortunately, in America, Waldorf Schools can pretty much do whatever they want because they are private schools.
    What a relief it is to be in public school where my children and I am protected by the law. And the education is great!
    I receive many phone calls and emails from parents who leave the school every year. They are baffled by how they are being treated.
    I was treated like a criminal...So glad to be away from there.

  11. Hello from Sweden!

    Carol Wyatt: "I was treated like a criminal".
    Me too, as I persisted following the Swedish School legislation and ordinances. In Sweden, the law is the same for community comprehensives (corresponds to public schools in the USA) and independent schools (roughly corresponds to charter schools in the USA). There are very few private schools in Sweden.

    In case the "They are very good at working the paranoia aspect." was meant about me: it was out of concern. At the British parents' forum, some messages and even threads were deleted due to the net-stalker's threats towards the owner of the site; I just wanted to avoid bringing the net-stalker's attention to your website.

    By the way, the Swedish net-stalker, who threatens British mothers, is on the pay-roll of the Swedish Waldorf School Federation (corresponding to AWSNA).

    The Titirangi (mentioned above, anyway, so, I do not use the "q") is to be found at qZqoqoqeqy's link page, together with other much useful information.

  12. Dear Carol,

    Thanks for posting your story. I also thank Anon #1 for posting her story.

    These and others are why I will protest the proposed "Waldorf influenced" charter schools. The one I know about (in Oakland) has a majority of Waldorf-trained teachers.

  13. Anonymous: The paranoia was not directed to you, but they did a great job of making me feel like I was unreasonable. Until my friends outside of Waldorf kept telling me how crazy Waldorf was acting, I had no idea how brainwashed I had become.
    My best friend had always been supportive of us attending PWS, but when we left, she exclaimed, "I'm so glad you left...That place is a cult!"
    I went through the school the way you would go through any organization when one has a complaint. I tried to meet with the teacher, head of school, tried to bring in a mediator. I filed an official complaint against the teacher. I finally had a meeting with a few people running the school and brought a licensed county psychologist in the public school system to mediate...They did not allow him in the meeting.
    My ex, who was and is now living with the teacher, told me that the head of school had convinced him to try to take the kids away from me...Which he tried....And failed, thank God.
    They went into all of my professional websites, facebook, searched my drawings (I'm an artist), and threatened to use just about anything I wrote or drew against me. They told my friends at the school to not talk to me anymore. Occasionally different brave friends would break Waldorf rules and send me notes to warn me of something they were about to do to my children and me.
    They threatened to expel our children...Which would have automatically given me reason to sue. They had no grounds.
    They wrote an inflammatory and completely false letter stating that I was dangerous and sent it to my ex so he could use it in court to try to take the children from me.
    They purposefully separated my daughter from me (a serious crime BTW) and created an impossible situation where I could no longer participate in her education.
    Only the teacher and my ex could be with my children on campus.
    The teacher was on the College of Teachers.
    And the teacher & my ex worked with the school in banning me from campus, taking me to court, and smearing my name among the Waldorf community. My ex told me these things later.
    They actually had a classroom meeting declaring me dangerous, despite cease and desist letters from my attorney.
    I wrote everyone including the head of AWSNA. No response. Only from their lawyer threatening me.
    It was the craziest thing I have ever gone through. And the fact that my daughters are still seeing the same teacher, whenever they stay with their father...The one who tried to separate them from unsettling, to say the least.
    If I had known that the school would kick our children out no matter what, I would have left immediately rather than go through the illegal shenanigans and abuse they put us through. They broke about 5 laws that I know of.
    The school protected the teacher.
    Not the child.
    This year there is a mass exodus of children leaving her class. Little by little people wake up from the Waldorf drug. And they are shocked...As I was.
    It defines the word "cult" and the system of Waldorf schools should be treated as such. They need to be investigated.

  14. Carol,

    thank you for writing down your experience.
    I understand now that the Swedish net-stalker would not make much difference to you, regarding what you have been through. In any case, a new threat means new energy loss, and for this reason, I will continue using "qZqoqoqeqy".

    What you have written sounds familiar to me, I have read several stories and discussions.

    Yes, the anthro/steiner/waldorf is a cult, to be compared with scientology or any political cult, Stalin's or what ever. I realized that quickly due to my life experience and left after few months. People who do not conform with the cult will be treated as enemies, be it parents, a regular teacher or whoever. What is particularily rotten is the treatment of the children of the non-conforming parents. That alone, one story only of that kind, should be enough for any presumptive parent considering to enroll h* children into - what? Into a cult!

    Your story reminds me on Titirangi, I am sorry to say. In both cases, there is some consolation, however: you are together with your children. You escaped before your children were submitted to sexual harassment and/or drawn into using drugs.

    Please, visit qZqoqoqeqy's link page on occation.

  15. Hi We had a very similar experience to the one you describe (without the custody issue) we left over two years ago. We were in a small UK school. Waldorf schools are cults and my son refused to conform. Thank God. My thinking had become as woolly as the dodgy clothes I dressed them in. Good luck in the future. I now work in mainstream secondary education and occasionally stumble across Waldorf graduates struggling to catch up with everything they missed out in primary. It's such a shame for them and it always makes me feel really cross with the parents who perpetuate this negligent system. My children spent one of their two years there doing pretty much NOTHING. So annoying. I think you hVe to see it to believe it because it is unimaginable!

  16. It is true that it is hard to imagine.
    I find people in the "real world" do see how crazy the Waldorf schools are. Within the Waldorf community, they really don't want to see the damage being done. The secrecy on campus was unbearable. A lot of gossip.
    I'm sure someday, a serious misstep on their part will result in the Waldorf schools being shut down. It's impossible to hide the truth forever.
    So happy now though. My kids are thriving.

  17. It is a shame that Waldorf teachers are permitted to educate (and judge) children with NO prior education or understanding of child development. Mr. Steiner was also uneducated about the true essence and development of the child. I wish more parents would do their homework and look into Anthroposopy BEFORE they subject their children to this nonsense!

  18. I have to agree with you there. I have a lot to say about the so called "education" Waldorf teachers receive. I know a lot about it and how little applicable knowledge they actually have. A Waldorf teacher would have to go through a college master's program and get a teacher's credential that constantly has to be updated, in order to teach at any normal school on the US. Waldorf teachers do not know proper English grammar, do not teach correct writing skills, and have no idea what kids need to know these days.
    I'm all for a few of the philosophies Waldorf spews, but if they are not educating my children...Why do we pay an exorbitant amount for one year of knitting and chanting?

  19. Carol,

    What a wonderful surprise, nay, a full-fledged "synchro-dipity" that I should be here writing to you! How did I get here? I discovered you through the intrepid Swedish blogger Zooey, over there in Stocklohm.

    Where do I live? Van Nuys! (For those who don't know LA, Carol and I are only 10 miles apart.)

    I'm from NYC originally, but I came out here in 2003 to teach high school math and physics at the Highland Hall Waldorf School in Northridge, and thus I knew several graduates of Pasadena WS who came to HH.

    I've also been an Anthroposophist for 34 years, but I'm quite the renegade and from the cult perspective, I've gone over to the dark side, so I sign off sometimes as Father Tom, Judas Priest, but because I know German and post on German blogs, I'm known to them as Hollywood Tomfortas.

    Much to talk about, and don't fear the "Swedish cyber-stalker" because I'm hoping he will come here just to watch you make mince meat, or maybe minced tofu out of him.

  20. Tomfortas: Your reply is a perfect example of how serious abuses within the Waldorf schools are neglected and treated as trivial. People have been harmed and it does not matter to anyone in the Waldorf community. It is a joke to you. Instead of the teachers and the head of a school handling terrible situations caused by a specific teacher (or even the head of a school), Waldorf does the opposite. They turn the victim and victim's family into criminals worthy of expulsion. They literally demonize the whole family and create gossip and injury to the children.
    Well....The family leaves, but the problems remain and more people are hurt.
    It is terrible for you to jokingly reply to such serious stories and statements.
    But, that is the Waldorf way.

  21. Exactly, Carol.

    Greetings from Sweden

  22. just wondering -
    1. Why would a parent support an educational system that believes that the (Waldorf) teacher has a mystical knowing for what is best for your child?
    2. Do you think parents actually understand the foundation of Waldorf education which is Anthroposopy?
    3. Are parents so taken with the superficial 'warm and fuzzy' feel of the school that they do no research into this philosophy?
    4. How do children who have no exposure to reading until 3rd grade and learn by copying from the board become competent readers?

  23. In response to the last comment, the answer is plain and simple:

    they lie.

    Prospective parents, education ministers and inspectors are told that the teachings of Rudolf Steiner (known as Anthroposophy) is the study of human wisdom, they are not told that:

    * The schools are a front for Anthroposophy, an esoteric religion also known as spiritual science, it's most loyal members are called the 'First Class' who believe they hold secret 'higher knowledge'. The 'spiritual health' of a school is measured by the membership of First Class Readers within the College of Teachers.

    * Spiritual science was supposedly gained through the clairvoyant knowledge of their founder Rudolf Steiner

    * The core belief of Anthroposophy is the reincarnation of the soul though racial hierarchies from Black to Aryan

    * The soul progresses through this hierarchy via the actions of karma

    * The soul presents indications of past lives through physiognomy and the four temperaments

    * Vaccination is discouraged, illness is seen as an opportunity for spiritual growth strengthening the souls progression for the next life

    * Steiner Waldorf education, Triodos Bank, Camphill Movement (now rebranded as Social Pedagogy), Biodynamic agriculture, Anthroposophical Medicine, Weleda, the Movement for Religious Renewal (also known as The Christian Community) and Eurythmy are all founded on Anthroposophy

    * The movement is not honest about their belief system, many Steiner Waldorf teachers believe they possess occult secrets that cannot be shared with the uninitiated. Following directions from Steiner, they lie, obfuscate and mislead intentionally – thinking this is their occult duty, the movement actively suppress attempts to make these concerns public

  24. Thanks you for your thorough comments Mule. It scares me that these people are still in my children's lives via my ex's live in girlfriend who is a teacher at PWS.
    What got me thinking that they may be a cult was after I finished reading "Under the Banner of Heaven" and "When Men Become Gods" about the Mormon extremists. They (the Mormon extremists) are master manipulators of the welfare system and other govt. agencies, scamming and basically stealing money from the tax payers. All while declaring the govt. evil and separating their culture from all of society.
    This is exactly what Waldorf does with regards to media. The vast majority of parents at PWS work in entertainment. Actors, producers, art directors, writers, and all others in TV, film, and technology. Almost all tuitions are paid for by media. They could not function without our industry. But all media is said to be damaging including turning on the radio in your car. No TV, technology, film. But when fundraising they welcome people with professional lighting, props, and equipment from the entertainment industry.
    This to me is the epitomy of a system of hypocrites.
    All of the actions of the school resemble a cult.
    Separate the students and parents from society and the real world. Isolate.
    Create your own random rules and consequences that change at random. Even if they are the opposite of the National Education Administration's guidelines. Again, any real world administration os frowned upon.
    Put yourselves above others. Teach the parents to believe they are more wise and know better than anyone. Smarter and that our children will thrive and come out smarter than they would at any other school.
    Do whatever the school administration tells you to do without question.
    The school administration truly believes they are above the law and do as they please.
    There is no system in place for complaints or dissent. The administration acts as if it is perfect and either criticisms are treated as trivial matters and never addressed, or compaints are threats towards the school.
    There is no parent in the College of Teachers meetings to defend or have a say in how things are done.
    The administration does whatever it wants whenever it wants to.

    When we visited and researched the Steiner philosophy, there were things that were worrisome. When we and other parents asked questions about those things, the teachers and administration shook their heads and reassured us that they were not that extreme. They really made everything sound great!
    That's why it is all the more shocking when things get weird.

  25. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  26. Hello,
    I just removed my 3 kids from a Waldorf school in Colorado. the middle child was being bullied everyday, He was getting in the car and crying and saying, get me out of here, no more talking just get me out of here, he is 8 yrs old. I kept trying to talk to them about this, and would hear what he had done wrong this day or that, they would look like the acknowledged it, but they didnt. My daughter went to take her son out of the kindergaten because he wants to be with his cousins. and the Kinderaten teacher blamed this all on the 8 yr old, and said we were doing bad by taking the other 3 out of there, only the bad one the one being bullied should have left. She actually said this was all his fault, however I never heard a word about this from the school, they never called me about anything, my parent teacher conference was the best I had ever had. I am glad I am out of it all. Since leaving Wednesday I have been doing a lot of reading about it.

  27. So sorry to hear about your situation. Your kids will be much better off.
    Watch your back though. They don't like any negative stories and your situation was recent. Sometimes they stalk people....I was one of those.

    How can a dysfunctional school blame problems on an 8 year old boy?
    They love to make you feel bad about your decisions, your lifestyle, your food....It really is nuts. You were smart to get out when you did.

    Good luck with everything,

  28. Carol,
    Hope everything is going well! I appreciated your experience as it completely resonated with the crazy bullying we've endured this past year. Thanks for hearing me out on this awhile back & speaking up about this!
    Nicole Maendel

  29. Carol, I'm so glad I came across your page. My son attended Summerfield Waldorf in Sonoma Co, CA for for a few years. We were also sold a bill of goods... few of which were true. My son really struggled with reading, and Summerfield's solution was to have him do extra eurithmy, wake up 90 min early every morning for a nature hike before school(he was 8 at the time), and take nightly baths with speical, very costly oils. At this point I took him to 2 different, non-Waldorf related specialists who diagnosed his dyslexia. At first, the school was willing to work with us and allowed my to hire a tutor for help. Soon after, I guess they had a change of heart and did everything they could to humiliate my son in front of his classmates. My son was continually told to write things on the board that the teacher was well aware he could not write. The teasing got so bad that one day when we got to school, my son refused to get out of the car and just sobbed. I went to his teacher and told him what was going on, just to have him say.. "oh yes, I've noticed some difficulties with his writing and I don't think the tutoring is working, we can do more eurithmy" That was the last time we stepped foot on that campus. I'm angry at myself for thinking this was a good place for him... his self esteem took such a hit over his experience at Waldorf. I'm happy to say he is in the 6th grade now, in public school, and is doing great. There are a lot of Waldorf inspired charters in my area, and my only hope is that parents really do their homework about what they are getting into. Summerfield is such a cult, teachers married to teachers, teachers married to administrators, teachers married to parents... and it's all true, if your child or any memeber of your family doesn't "fit" into the Waldorf box, you and your child are in for a lot of pain. Thanks for listening.

  30. Anonymous: It is so important for people to speak up. I am sorry you went through such a terrible time. Your poor son.
    It is a cult. That's what cults do. They pull you in, require you to live within random, rigid rules that usually harm you and your child, then shame you if you ask questions or go against any of the policies. Waldorf gets into your home life. They tell you what to feed your child, what time they should go to bed, separate you from pop culture and the mainstream. They force you to accept the most outlandish belief systems based on a German man who is no longer alive. There is no resource for complaints or duress. You become a traitor if you ask any questions.
    I know a few parents whose children suffer from severe depression now after the abuse they suffered at Waldorf. Eurythmy as a substitute for special needs education is ridiculous! They just have no clue how to deal with special needs at all.
    The teachers are not real teachers. They are not certified and could not teach in the public school system.
    My kids' Dad just married the Waldorf teacher who had me kicked out, and tried to take my kids away. She is in their home life and it is disgusting. When my daughter needs help with 4th grade homework, the teacher doesn't know it. And the math my 7th grader is doing is a complete mystery to the teacher.
    Some of the teachers have college degrees, but a lot of them don't. My children's new step mother was a stewardess before teaching at Waldorf. She just completed her Waldorf teacher training and graduated this past summer. She will have to remain at Waldorf, since she has no real college or teacher education. She could not teach at any other school without going to college.
    I have friends who teach at regular schools and they not only have masters degrees in education but ongoing accreditation required by the state. They are prepared to teach children in today's world and updated regularly.
    AND... when you encounter a bad teacher in the regular school system, they have rules and processes in place to handle it... Rather than the Waldorf method of shaming and banning.
    Really, the Waldorf schools should be shut down unless they fix a very broken education system. If educating children is so important, they should actually learn how to teach and run a serious school. It costs enough to go there!
    I joked with a friend the other day that when you leave Waldorf, your child actually learns American facts and songs for the first time... Like the Pledge of Allegiance! You will learn many German songs at Waldorf, and chant, but never know historical American songs or pledges.