Mid Drive Kits, Dump the Derailleur and get an IGH?

June 4, 2016

The popular Bafang BBS02 and BBSHD mid drives are introducing an entirely new generation to electric bikes. Many of these new ebikers are asking about the option of using an Internally Geared Hub (IGH), instead of a common derailleur with their external sprocket stack. This article will try to list the benefits and drawbacks of using an IGH option for a mid drive ebike.

Drop Outs, vertical or horizontal?

The part of the bicycle frame where the rear axle attaches to it, is called a “drop out”. The common style is a vertical drop-out (or sometimes slightly angled), and it is called that because, if you hold the frame up and loosen the axle-nuts…the wheel will “drop out” of the frame.

Since most common bicycles use a derailleur, a vertical drop-out is a good design. If an axle-nut begins to loosen in the middle of a ride, the weight of the bike and rider will help to hold them together. In this way, the rider can often feel that there’s something wrong before the wheel actually comes completely out, causing a crash.



The common vertical style of drop out


The style of drop-out shown in the pic below is a horizontal “track” style. In the Olympics, and also college-style bicycle races, they used a “fixed gear”type of bicycle. Since it is a single-speed and there was no derailleur, the frame designers needed a way to mount the chain on the sprockets, and then to tension the chain properly. Chains can have a link added or removed to adjust the length, but the chain-length must be loose enough to be assembled onto the sprockets, and then the wheel axle must be allowed to be moved towards the rear of the frame, far enough to properly tension the chain.

Track style drop-outs are a simple, light, and robust way to accomplish this without needing to add the weight and complexity a chain tensioner. These are being seen more often in some of the new cruiser bicycles.



Horizontal “track” style drop outs


The pic below is a “chain tensioner”. In this example, it is being used to convert a bike with a multi-geared derailleur into a single-speed. The stock derailleur can be used as a “poor mans” tensioner, but many enthusiasts prefer to shorten the chain as much as possible, and to have the resulting tensioner be as light and simple as possible. A chain tensioner is often the best option when converting your derailleur bicycle to an IGH.



A chain tensioner attached to where a derailleur would normally be mounted.

Internally Geared Hubs, IGH’s

Why would anyone want to use an IGH instead of a derailleur? Derailleurs are lighter, and that is the main reason they have become so mass-produced for bicycles. Also, if you are adding an electric motor to the drivetrain, you might damage something, and a 7-speed freewheel can be replaced very cheaply.

The number one reason that some bicyclists switch to an IGH is because they often ride in mud and snow, and a derailleur can get so packed with crud, that it stops working in the middle of the ride.


derailleurs can fail from a crash bending it, or by getting packed with mud or snow.

Derailleurs can fail by getting bent from a crash, or by getting packed with mud or snow.


The second most often cited reason is for riders who log a lot of off-road miles each year. They have to clean the derailleur frequently. Plus, they often need to completely replace their derailleur at the beginning of each riding season, due the the wear that results from the accumulated grit acting as an abrasive during the ride. If you do that, then you can save money by getting an IGH, which typically will last many years with proper maintenance, and…with the “after ride” cleanup being reduced to just two sprockets and the chain…

As to using an IGH on an electric mid drive, there are several glaring omissions in the list below. For the sake of keeping this article compact, I will only list the IGHs that I recommend. SRAM in particular, is difficult to buy in North America, and few riders have written about them, so there is not enough data available (SRAM…email me!). If you want a SRAM product, you “might” be able to buy one from Europe through ebay, since they are produced in Schweinfurt, Germany.

Why no 11, 7, or 5-speeds?

This article will mainly concern itself with the strength of the various IGH’s, since we are trying to find appropriate options for mid drive ebikes.

If you are only pedaling (with no electric motor) in a region with widely varying grades, get the 11-speed. Once you add an electric motor, get the 8-speed. There are two reasons. First, the more power you have, the fewer gears you need, and frequent shifting can become tedious. One Rohloff owner said he ended up shifting two gears at a time, because the Rohloff gears all have a close ratio, essentially making this 14-speed into a 7-speed.

The second reason is that the 8-speeds listed below have a very strong 1:1 ratio fifth gear. I would recommend starting out in 5th gear as a habit during your daily ride routine, when using an 8-speed IGH. Unless, of course, you are at a stop on an uphill. Then, you should start out on a lower gear, but…take it easy on the throttle. Don’t hot rod, unless you are using the second gear of a 3-speed. This is relevant because…for many riders, the only reason they want a mid drive in the first place is because they want help on the hills.

When it comes to 5-speed hubs (and some 7-speeds?), the middle gear is a driver-to-hub locking 1:1 just like the robust 3-speeds listed below, so…the 3rd gear in a 5-speed is often VERY strong. The reason why I do not recommend them (and believe me, I wanted to have a 5-speed and 7-speed on this list), There is just not enough data about them available from riders who have abused them in a rough service profile. Here is a German video that is the clearest one I could find to show the parts of a 7-speed (5 speeds are very similar). The dogs shown here are pretty strong, but the axial clutch and some of the gears are not strong enough for a motor (depending on model).

Once hub designers began using the modern style of axle-dogs, a 7-speed IGH became the minimum amount of gears that the majority of customers would buy (so 5-speeds are rare), as a counter-point to having a common external 7-speed sprocket-set. The 3rd gear in most 5-speeds is as strong as anything available, but if you want the strength of the modern style of axle-dog and gears for the other speeds, the 8-speed hub is the way to go…even if you don’t need all 8 speeds.

I would LOVE for someone to produce a wide-ratio 5-speed using a very strong style of axle-dog, but that just doesn’t exist right now. Here is a short video of the Shimano Alfine-11 showing axle-dogs shifting (which is almost identical to my recommended Alfine 8-speed). Here is a 2-minute video of the sliding dogs and axial-splined clutch operating in a SRAM 7-speed.

The design on the classic Fichtel & Sachs 7-speed (often simply called Sachs or F&S, and was purchased by SRAM), has stronger dogs (two dogs for every gear), but creates a weak gear-set that provides both the 2nd speed and 6th speed (1st and 5th don’t look too healthy either, it’s just that… under high power, 2/6 breaks first, as in this short video).

In the classic style 3-speed, 5-speed, and 7-speed, the middle gear is a locked 1:1 (modern 7-speeds sometimes use a different design). A gear set is added that provides two of the speeds, depending on whether it is driving, or it is driven. The strength of the middle gear is dependant on the strength of the style of clutch it uses. A 5-speed typically has a clutch and two gear-sets, a 7-speed has a clutch and 3 gear sets.

For a 7-speed, they took the classic 5-speed design, but instead of adding a physically larger gear-set to one end, they added a smaller gear-set to the other end. Plus, since Sachs has dogs on both sides of the axle, even more material had to be removed from the smaller gear-sets to create slots at the gear ID for the dogs to grab. Plus, the design of most 5-speed 1:1 ratio axial clutches looks strong enough for human legs, but…not a motor.


This is a Sturmey Archer classic 3-speed axle. The central sun gear is is one piece with the left 3/5ths of this axle. The very strong clutch slides back and forth on the left side. Hubs with more speeds than this will have loose sun gears that spin freely, and are locked and unlocked by dogs through a hollow shaft. This "one piece" axle and sun gear is one of the reasons it is so much stronger than the others. The right-side axle-stub is riveted in place, and has proven to be more than strong enough.

This is a Sturmey Archer classic 3-speed axle. The central sun gear is is machined as one piece with the right-side 3/5ths of this axle. The very strong clutch these use will slide back and forth just to the right of the gear. Hubs with more speeds than this will have sun gears that are a separate piece, that spin freely, and are locked and unlocked by dogs through a hollow shaft. This “one piece” axle and sun gear is one of the reasons it is so much stronger than the others. The left-side axle-stub is riveted in place, and has proven to be more than strong enough.


The 3-speeds listed below have the sun gear cut from a single piece of steel with the axle. The classic 5 and 7-speeds have spinning sun gears that are locked and unlocked by dogs. In a 3-speed, the second and third gear are selected at the planetary shell or the planetary gear-pins (not near the axle with lifting dogs or sliding dogs, where a higher amount of leverage could be applied, and cause breakage), and it’s done by the 4-arm axial clutch (no pawls), so it’s very strong. I’m stating these design features so readers will understand why I claim the 3-speeds are much stronger in all the gears, compared to a 5 or 7-speed.


The axle-dogs of a Shimano Alfine-11

The shifter axle-dogs of a Shimano Alfine-11


The pic below shows a gear that slides onto a “fixed dog” (in the hopes that it would be stronger than a sliding dog). Dogs grab the spinning sun gear near the axle to lock and unlock it. An axle-shaft can have several gear-sets spinning around the axle (with all of them having their gear-teeth permanently enmeshed to the hub-shell), and…the one that has its sun gear locked is the gear that is actuated.


Due to leverage, the axle-dogs feel a lot more force than the gear-teeth. This is where they will crack.

Due to leverage, the axle-dogs feel a lot more force than the gear-teeth. This is where they will usually crack. Pic courtesy of Aaron at RideYourBike.com


If you are want to switch to an IGH, but you don’t know how many gears to buy, ask yourself this question…How many gears are you happy with on your derailleur-equipped bicycle right now?

Do you have a seven-speed on a BBSHD, but…you really only use two or three of the gears? If you have a mild-assist BBS01 in a very hilly region on a bike with a seven-speed (and you frequently use all of those gears), you certainly would not be happy with a 3-speed, so…an 8-speed IGH might be what you’d be most happy with.


The Rohloff 500/14  “Speedhub” is a very famous 14-speed IGH, designed by very serious Germans. It is heavy and expensive, but…each one of the gears is almost exactly a “close ratio” 13.6% away from the next gear, so…if you are riding through a very hilly region with constantly changing grades of elevation, the Rohloff is your best bet to always be able to find ‘just’ the right gear (it vas designed for ze mountains of central Europe, ja?).

This high number of gears is achieved by packaging a common style of 7-speed mechanism alongside a narrow “wide range” 2-speed (a planetary gear-set that is either actuated in low range, or bypassed in high range). The Rohloff has a very wide 526% gearing range from the lowest gear to the top, and it has Gates Carbon belt pulleys available, if you do not want to use a common chain.



The Rohloff 500/14 “Speedhub”


There are many 7-speed IGH’s that are very similar to the mechanism inside the Speedhub (minus the Rohloff in-series 2X drive), but what makes the Rohloff special is two features. First, it has a “shear pin” that is designed to break before any of the gears or shifting dogs could break. That’s a very good thing, because the reason you don’t see very many Rohloffs is because they are so expensive. The internal “2 X 7” mechanism is a little heavy, but…it also allows the rider to eliminate the weight and complexity of the front derailleur and second chainring, so…the extra weight is not as bad as it may seem at first.

However, the safety feature of the shear pin would not be much help if you were breaking the pin once a month, so…the second reason the Rohloff is so great is how strong the gears and dogs are. Most IGH’s use a quality of steel in producing their internal parts that is just “adequate” for the leg-force of the average rider. The Rohloff is intended to be a lifetime purchase, and they make every part inside to the highest standard of strength that is possible. Other IGH’s are designed to be as light as possible, the Rohloff is designed to be bullet-proof.

The place where the Rohloff is most appropriate is on a low-powered mid drive in a very hilly region. This is because my experience has shown me that…the more power your system has, the fewer gears you need. Most “pedal only” bicyclists like to have as many gears as possible, but once you have added electric power to your bicycle, the need to frequently be shifting can become tedious.

Shimano Nexus-8

This may sound odd, but my research has found that the Shimano 8-speeds are widely considered to be stronger than the 7-speeds. I had always assumed that by packing more gears into the same space, each gear (and its dog) would have to be made thinner (maybe weaker?). However, the relative strength of the various models is often not in the gears, it is in the “dogs” that engage the gears. The available 8-speeds may be slightly more expensive, but they appear to be using much stronger dogs, and gears that are large enough that they do not have thin spots.

Here is a short video of the Nexus Inter-8 internals shifting. Notice how the planet gear-sets are always spinning, and each of the central sun gears are only locked to the stationary axle-shaft when its their turn to operate.

The Nexus-8 and Alfine-8 are both a robust 4-speed, coupled with a narrow wide-range 2-speed. However, they have managed to design 5th gear to be an efficient and strong direct-drive (although, to be clear, these are NOT as strong as the 3-speeds listed below). For an electric mid-drive, it may be advisable to choose an input sprocket that makes 5th gear your normal “take off” gear from a stop. You might end up only needing 3rd gear for hills (with first and second being too low to be useful), but…just be aware that 5th gear is the strongest. The currently available 11-speeds and 7-speeds do not have any gears that are a 1:1 ratio.



The gears of a Shimano 8-speed, with some of the planets removed to help show how it works, as a desk-top demonstrator.


Shimano is a Japanese company with a long history of designing and producing bicycle components. They make both the Nexus and Alfine lines of IGH’s, and these two IGH models use many of the same internal components. These shared mechanical components are the parts that are most likely to break if overpowered by an electric motor drive. So…the choice of whether to use the Nexus-8 or the Alfine-8 should be made according to their price and external features, since their physical strength is identical.

Both have a disc brake option, but the Nexus is the more affordable product line. The common Nexus IGH’s use plain bearings to help keep the price more affordable, but…the “red band” Nexus hubs have upgraded needle bearings to reduce friction. I have no experience switching the internal lubrication to using automatic transmission fluid (ATF) from cars, but it is being seen more often. (here’s a tutorial on switching your Nexus or Alfine to ATF)

Shimano Alfine-8

The Alfine line of Shimano IGH’s (pronounced “all-FEE-nay”) could be described as having the Shimano Nexus guts…with upgrades.

All Alfine hubs have needle bearings to reduce friction, and…they also have a robust set of roller-clutches instead of pawls, so…when coasting unpowered, these hubs are just about as silent as it is physically possible. Another feature that makes the Alfine more expensive is that the “wide range” 2-speed gear-set uses helical teeth, in order to make shifting under load easier. They achieve 8-speeds by coupling a 2-speed along aside a 4-speed.



Here is a cutaway of the Shimano Alfine-11. The power input and the 2-speed are on the right, and the other speeds along with disc brake are on the left.


Both the Nexus and Alfine lines can use the option of a “clean and quiet” Gates carbon belt (instead of the common ‘greasy and noisy’ chain that is used by the uncivilized animals like me), and these hubs have the widest selection of “off the shelf” tooth-counts for the pulleys, so each rider can find the optimum ratio for their terrain.

A tech fact that is worthy of note, is that all the Nexus IGH’s and the stock Alfine-8 uses a special grease for lubrication that is designed so that it does not also make the pawls stick (pawls need to move freely to work properly). The Alfine-11 is “oil lubricated”, and as a result the engineers also improved the dynamic seal on the left side so that the internal oil-bath will not leak onto the disc brake.

A frequently-mentioned mod on the internet for the Nexus IGH’s and Alfine-8 was to use automatic transmission fluid (ATF, used in cars), since high-mileage riders are recommended to drain and refill the oil at the beginning of each annual riding season (and Shimano IGH oil is expensive). Be aware there may be an occasional drip on the floor near where you park your bike if you do this, but…reduced friction and easier shifting is often mentioned as being worth the drips.



The Alfine-8 , showing the 2-speed end. This robust gear-set is either actuated by pulling the clutch outwards to create a low range for the series 4-speed that is next to it, or…the “two faced” clutch is pushed in to bypass it to directly connect the input driver the the 4-speed with no additional gears (in the high range). Pic courtesy of MTBR member Carlos Fandango.


At the 2015 Interbike convention, I had the pleasure of trying out the Di2 electric shifter. Instead of the rider moving a rotary knob or lever to actuate a cable, you simply tap a water-proof “up or down” button. I found this system to be very pleasant to use, and it was absolutely delightful.

The fact that the gears are shifted by an electrical button also means that the shift button can be provided in different forms. By that I mean that…if you are a road-biker that likes aerodynamic drop-bars, you have the option of having an integrated paddle-switch embedded into a brake handle. This means that…without moving your hand, you can use your fingers alone to either apply the brakes, or shift the gears.

Why 3-speeds are badass for high power

The more power you have, the fewer gears you need. If you have  a LOT of gears in a powered bicycle system, you will end up shifting a lot. So…how many gears are ideal? A 3-speed is the sweet spot for high power because of the way that the common and affordable versions are constructed. I am talking about the Sturmey-Archer fat 3-speed SX-RK3 (SeXy-RocKet 3-speed?), and the “normal width” Shimano Nexus Inter-3.

The 8-speed hubs that I recommended above have several gear-sets that have free-spinning sun-gears that become fixed (locked) to the axle by a “dog” being moved from the hollow axle by various means. Doing this is a clever way to allow a compact hub to have many gears, but…it focuses a tremendous amount of stress on the dogs, and when one of these styles of IGH’s breaks, it is often the dog that breaks…instead of the gears.



Just inside the edge of this Nexus-3, you can see the castellated bosses that the driver pawls dig into when you are in second gear.


The classic and well-regarded Sturmey-Archer 3-speed engages the “second gear ” 1:1 ratio by locking the input chain-driver to the shell of the IGH by two large pawls…and they do that near the RIM of the IGH shell. I cannot emphasize enough how important this is. The second gear of these two models of 3-speed are not only stronger than first and third gears, they are a LOT stronger.

On this style of IGH, the central sun gear is permanently machined as a part of the stationary axle. Since the sun gear is near the axle, it has the most amount of leverage applied to it. By not having a separate sun gear that floats (and has to be locked and unlocked at its center)…this is one of the reasons the old style 3-speeds are badass.



In first gear and third gear, these two large pawls near the edge of this Sturmey-Archer 3-speed driver are retracted flat. In second gear, they pop out to grab the hub shell.


The pic above is from RJ the Bike Guy. Thanks RJ, for taking the time and effort to make the videos. Also, here is an account of the tragic history of Sturmey-Archer, started in 1902, and eventually sold to Sun Race (in Taiwan) in 2000.



This is the clutch from the classic Sturmey-Archer “AW” 3-speed IGH. When extended, the four arms grab the extended pins that also act as axles the four planet gears. Early S-A hubs used three planet-gears and three clutch-arms to save on cost, but the four-arm “AW’ series proved to be the most popular. Notice at the bottom of the pic on the right, one of the two beefy pawls that engage the 2nd speed, completely bypassing the gears. The clutch is shown here engaging third gear (overdrive).


When it comes to the strength of the other two gears, Its difficult for me to determine which is stronger. In first gear, the bicycles’ pedals are driving the outer ring gear, and the four planet gears (count them, FOUR…not three like some other planetary groups) will output power from their planet-carrier through their central pin-axles. Third gear reverses that flow, and input drives the planets, and then outputs power from the outer ring gear.



This pic shows the clutch carrier on the left, which transmits torque to the four radial arms close to its edges (instead of near the axle), while still allowing them to slide in and out of the three positions. The pic on the right shows the four dogs on the ID of the ring-gear housing. When the clutch is pulled all the way out, it grabs these, and the hub is then in first gear (under-drive).


Here is Karls review of him beating up on a Sturmey SX-RK3, and this is the very article that got me to spend hours watching IGH teardown videos on youtube to find out why a 3-speed was surviving when the others died so easily (when abused).



The Sturmey-Archer SX-RK3 wide-axle, for mounting on a 170mm drop-out “fatbike” frame.


In order to keep this classic 3-speed design as small and as light as possible, it uses small planet gears. That is good from a strength point of view, but it also means that on the Sturmey design, first gear is only a 33% under-drive, and 3rd is only a 33% overdrive. For the Nexus, they squeezed-in a 36% underdrive/overdrive, and can provide a 186% range from 1st gear to 3rd (compared to the Sturmey 177%), not really much of a difference between the two. And…as stated before, both have a second gear using the same strong 1:1 lock between the input driver and the hub shell.



The Shimano Nexus Inter-3, with disc brake option, made for the common 135mm wide drop out frames


The Nexus uses expired patents to create a modern copy of the Sturmey, but there are minor differences. The Nexus uses four small pawls to lock the driver to the hub shell in second gear, and the classic Sturmey uses two large pawls. The Nexus has a slightly better gearing spread, but the choice as to whether to get the Nexus or Sturmey will likely boil down to this…The Sturmey-Archer SX-RK3 is available in a wide fatbike version, and the Shimano Nexus Inter-3 is not. If you have a fatbike, get the Sturmey, and…if you have a bicycle with a common-width rear axle, you can choose between the Shimano Nexus Inter-3, and any one of the many Sturmey-Archer 3-speed models (the S-A rear hub drum brake is highly respected for cruisers that do not have any frame allowances for a disc or V-brake).

The SRAM T3 might be the same as these two, but I haven’t found enough info on them yet. Also, I thought the Sturmey S3X “fixed gear” (no freewheeling) IGH might be an option (at first), if coupled with a freewheeling chainring at the BB. However, it has a very strong 1:1 locked hub in 3rd gear, plus…1st/2nd gears are actuated by sliding dogs near the axle…this makes it weakest in the gears where an ebike mid-drive needs a little more strength the most. (Thanks to Dan Burkhart for his time and effort making the videos)

Here is a discussion by a bike mechanic that works with both the Nexus-3 and the Sturmey-Archer-3

NuVinci CVT’s

NuVinci IGH’s are made by Fallbrook Technologies. They use a patented design which incorporates large steel balls as the interface between the input driver and the output driver. This means the NuVinci design is a Constantly Variable Transmission (CVT). There are no “steps” between gears, and the rider can select precisely the exact ratio between the input and output that they desire. The only spec for comparison that is useful is…the max torque it can input, and the ratio-spread from bottom gear to top gear.

The N330, N360, and N380 models all use a name that reflects their percentage of total gearing ratio. for the purposes of using a NuVinci for an electric mid drive, I recommend the N380, which has a 380% range between the lowest possible gearing and its top gear. The N360 and N380 have a similar torque handling capability (for some reason, the N330 cannot take much power). The N360 can sometimes be found for a lower price than the N380. Here is a short video of how the mechanism works.



Eight steel balls means this is the N171


I normally only recommend components that are readily available and currently in production, however, I must make an exception on this IGH discussion. The N380 uses SIX steel balls, and the amount of torque they can survive (without internal slippage) is related to the amount of their respective contact areas.

Fallbrook no longer makes the “eight ball” version, called the NuVinci N171. However the N171 can often be found as a used part for sale (often due to its weight). By using eight steel balls, it has 33% more torque-handling capability compared to the recommended “six ball” N380. The N171 has a slightly narrower 350% ratio from top to bottom (its name does not match its ratio, like the other models). This gear-ratio spread is roughly halfway between a conventional 8-speed and 11-speed IGH.

Here is Karls review of the N171 being beaten up with 2400W

As a side note, you could double the NuVinci hubs’ torque-handling ability by doubling its RPM’s in relation to the wheel speed. One way to do that would be for a mid drive to power a NuVinci as a jackshaft, with a second chain (or belt)  connecting the NuVinci to the rear wheel using a 1:2 ratio. In fact, any of the IGH’s listed above would benefit in the same way, from a similar arrangement.


Here, the Italjet #59 uses an IGH to add several gears to a rear hubmotor that only has enough room to fit a single-speed freewheel. If the sprockets that attach the IGH to the rear wheel had a 1:2 ratio, it would cut the stress on the IGH in half, doubling its input torque capability without breakage. It would have the same practical effect as switching to a rear wheel with half the diameter. The gearing shown is 4:3 from the chainring to the IGH, and 1:1 from the IGH to the rear wheel. If the chainring had an 8:3 ratio, with the rear chain having 1:2, the pedal-cadence (and rear wheel RPMs) would be the same, but the IGH would have the pedal-torque cut in half (if it was a mid-drive).

Conclusions, and Recommendations

Here are a list of gear ratio spreads. If you like very high speeds on the flat land, and also have very steep hills, you might want a big number. Mild hills can run fine with a smaller spread, and the actual total ratio can be chosen by changing the tooth-count of the very inexpensive input sprocket. A smaller sprocket for higher speeds and less hill-torque, a larger sprocket for a lower top speed and better hill-climbing.





307%__Nexus-8 and Alfine-8

243%__Sturmey RX-RK5

225%__SRAM-P5 cargo


177%__Sturmey Archer-3

Now that you can compare the gearing ranges, what mid drives can use which IGH’s? You will have no problem finding some one who says “I used the X-hub on the Y-mid drive, and it survived just fine”, but…there are many factors to consider. The worst-case scenario is a sudden application of a high-powered throttle to an IGH that is in the wrong gear, and it is driving a large-diameter wheel. Also bad? starting from a full stop on a steep uphill with a fully-loaded cargobike and a heavy rider.

If you swap to an IGH and then break it, you might still be able to use one if (the next time) you take it a little easier on the throttle on start-up, switch to a smaller driven wheel (while making up the speed with a different sprocket tooth-count), or…simply making sure the next time, you are starting out in the proper gear (like driving a car with a manual transmission). If you do break the dogs on your IGH, you don’t have to re-lace a whole new IGH to the wheel, just pull out the old guts and slide in the new ones.

Another question for consideration is…will there be a steady and smooth application of power on a street ebike? or…will this be for off-road riding with jumps? The jarring and sudden bumps that are common on trails can apply shock-loads to an IGH that a street bike doesn’t see.

36V BBS01, 52V TSDZ2

I would feel comfortable using any of the hubs listed above with this drive 36V X 21A = 750W. There are also a lot of European “street legal” 250W-500W mid drives to choose from, and I would also be comfortable using any of these hubs with those. In fact, I would even feel safe risking an 11-speed with 750W, while using caution with the throttle and a smooth application of power.

The TSDZ2 is smaller than the BBS01, so it cannot handle as many heat-producing amps. However, it can use 52V and 14A to achieve 750W.

48V BBS02

If using the optional 52V and also the full 25A, it would equal 1300W of input. If the throttle is programmed for sudden power, it could definitely break some of these IGH’s. Especially in a 29’r wheel, and with the hub in a high gear. Choose the 3-speed if you are a hot-rodder, or…maybe an 8-speed or the NuVinci N380 if you ride in a normal manner. Here is Karls review of the BBS02 with an N380

You could also hammer the N171 (if you can find one) or the Rohloff (if you are rich).


The stator on this drive is 66% wider than the BBS02 (50mm vs 30mm), and that means that…even if they are both using the same input watts, the HD will provide more output torque. The stock controller can use 48V or 52V, and the controllers’ max amps are 30A (and this drive can easily survive 40A of heat). The only reason to have this much power available (52V X 30A = 1560W) is…to USE this much power. If you are happy with 1000W, the BBS02 costs less and weighs less. I would only recommend a 3-speed IGH, or the N171 (hard to find), or a Rohloff. However, with the Rohloff…the gears are so closely spaced that you would end up shifting a LOT.

The 3-speed hubs I listed can really take a beating, but…if you find a way to break one, they are cheap to swap the guts out ($100 in parts?). If I lived where the hills were very steep (like San Francisco). I might get a BBSHD for its great heat-survivability, rather than using it like a hot rod. In that situation,  you could probably get away with using a Nexus/Alfine 8-speed or the N380. But…I would mount it in a smaller wheel, and take it very easy on the throttle.

Here is Karls review of the BBSHD with a Sturmey 3-speed

Lightning Rods “small block”

Uuuuh…NO. Way too much torque, and its real strength is being used as an off-roader with lots of jolts. Its not just that the input power that is common for this kit (typically 1500W to 2800W). It has an exceptional 33:1 reduction, and that means it will take the minimum 1500W, and turn that into a ton of wheel-torque. ES member cheekybloke (Darren Eclair) developed a robust 3-speed derailleur system on a steel cassette for his LR kit, using 1/8th inch chain and sprockets. Common 3/32nds bicycle stuff kept breaking.

Cyclone 3000W

No, just….no

LR “big block”, Tangent Ascent, DaVinci Astro-drives

No, No, and No…stick to a chain, a really good one (no belts to the rear wheel), and use a derailleur or a single-speed, and maybe even a fixed gear (since all the drives listed have an integrated freewheel).

If you liked the “teardown” pics of IGH internals, here’s another good site I found, called “Ride your bike”.

Here is the website “all about hubs”

Written by Ron/spinningmagnets, June 2016



  1. Great article Ron. The best place I’ve found to get information on IGH robustness is forums where the gas powered bicycle crowd hang out. Although putting a gas motor on a bike feels almost sacrilegious to me, they have a pretty good idea of how much power will make what fail. 1hp is equal to about 750watts and they always talk in HP not watts. The 3 speed IGH seem to work well up to about 4hp (3000W) as long as you don’t shift them under load and take it easy on the throttle. I’ve been running a 2500W mid drive with a SA 3 speed fatty for hundreds of miles without any issues at all. The N171 is generally accepted to be fine up to about 4hp or 3000W as well as long as the acceleration is smooth. I’ve had good luck with the N380 up to 1300W and have ridden mine very aggressively off road for well over a year now even though it is only rated for 250W. Thanks again for writing this Ron, you are the yardstick by which all other ebike bloggers (including me) are measured…and found wanting.

    • dear Karl, I am planing to add an IGH Nuvinci 380N to my 20″ mountain bike equipped with an BBSHD at 52V. Right now my bike climbs literally any hills, and I just didn’t want to lose all this torque. How does the highest gears on the Nuvinci 380 compare with the regular 8 speed that came on my bike: dahon jetstream disk. It has 32 tooth on the back: slowest strong gear, and 46 tooth on the front on a 20″ wheels it gives my bike a super power. I want to change to IGH for clean look and stop chain from falling. Thank you

    • I’ve got a Cannondale Adventure 5 (I like the human ergonomics of the bike). Was planning to install an Edge 1500W DD hub motor, but now think that a Bafang BBSHD with either an Alfine 11 or an N380 coupled to a Gates CarbonDrive belt. I live in Northern California and would like to ride some roads/hills that are too steep for my now-disintegrating senior-citizen body — like the half-mile 15% incline up my street. Also needed to be factored into the equation is that I weigh 230#. Any thoughts and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

  2. Thanks for a very good read, I’ll keep you posted how it goes with my SA 3 speed 170 and L/R big block. Easy on the throttle I guess.

  3. Ron after reading your article I believe it may contain some errors if I am reading it right. First off it looks like you are claiming that top gear in the Shimano 8 speed & 11 speeds are the same ratio. This is not so. A simple check on Sheldon Browns site will give you the ratios but I was more interested in what the final drive would be. – On the Nexus/Alfine 8 speed with my set up it works out to 82.6 Gear Inches while on the Alfine 11 without changing anything other than the hub the final drive works out to 110.1 Gear Inches. This should mean whichever electric drive you use you should have that much more range to find your optimum gear ratio with the 11 speed for your motor to operate in it’s most efficient rpm. Also, Nexus 7 speed hubs should have the same durability as the Nexus 8 speeds since they were designed with reliability in mind after the early 3 & 5 speeds had a record of failures.

    • Thanks, Glen. I certainly appreciate the input. I am very open to making corrections to the article, because I want the info to be accurate. If you could collect some links that would verify this, I will be glad to make the changes.

  4. Have about 2,000 miles on a Rohloff Bafang 500 watt set up. The Rohloff does not like to up shift with any kind of load on it. So you kind of end up only using 8 or so gears anyway. About two gear jumps per power level on the Bafang to keep the motor spinning at the right speed. So as you mentioned unless you want gears to go straight up a wall at 3 MPH save the money and use an Alfine. I have wore out a nexus 7 and have the Alfine 8 and 11 on none electric bikes. The 11 stands out as a great piece of machinery. Used it on a cargo bike with a front hub and the thing shifts so fast and smooth at a left turn light I could get to 25 MPH by the time the turn was completed. However if faced by a Zombie attack or just the crap area I ride through on the way to work at 5:30 in the morning the Rohlly gives confidents.

    • Thanks, Ken…that’s very useful info.

  5. When it’s very cold, the IGH freezes and it’s stuck in the position you left.

    • Dear freek.weijers@live.nl, for extremely cold regions, an IGH should use a thin synthetic grease.

  6. I’ve got a Sturmey Archer 8-speed and am contemplating moving it over to my Catrike Expedition with the BBS02/750w equipped. Would this be a safe move?

    • If you take it easy (no wheelies) then I would risk it.

  7. I wanted to point out that the Coaster Brake SG-3C41 nexus 3 has 186%. But the disc version of it SG-3D55 has only a range of 158%. At least according to the shimano site. So I think that the Sturmey Archer-3 is actually a better way to go if you have disc breaks.

  8. Hi Ron, thanks for the nice article. I thought a lot about this configuration for my commuter bike and ended up with an IGH at the front (Pinion P1.9XR that has an 568% overall ratio with 24% equal steps) and a rear hub motor connected via a Gates belt. In my opinion this is the most robust configuration and avoids wear on the chain by the motor. As the gear box is fully encapsuled it also does not get affected by mud or snow.

  9. Extremely helpful article with tons of information and experience behind it. These are the times when I feel so lucky that we live in the age of internet. I am going to build an ebike for my mum with a bbshd and probably nuvinci n380. We live in the mountains and what I need is a bike for her that has adequate gear range and also won’t overheat after 20 minutes of constant climbing (also the summers are crazy hot here). So I am thinking my idea should work: the speed is not important, so the pedal assist will be on low mode (so it won’t kill the nuvinci), I will use the bbshd for it’s capacity to not overheat.

    • How did that build work out? I have an N360.

  10. Hi Ron, very interesting article, it guided me on my tadpole trike project. Just antoher question, what kind of middrive do you recommend for a SRAM dual drive? I know it’s very hard to kind in USA. Thanks in advance.

    • Its a three-speed with a cassette freehub. I would guess it is as strong as any of the 3-speeds here, but there is very little written about them. I like how the freehub allows you to move a single-speed sprocket in or out to adjust the chainline.

  11. I just installed a Sturmey Rx-Rk5 on my bike. I looked at the sketch of the gears and the clutch. They look pretty beefy next the their 3-speed predecessors. I’ll let you know if all goes well. It’s behind a 1600 watt kit.

    • How’s that holding up?

      • Yeah man! how is your gearhub doing?

      • Yeah man!, share!

    • Yeah man, share!

  12. I spent a good chunk of time reading through this article, familiarizing myself with IGHs just to find out that the answer to which IGH I should use with my Tangent is NO. 😀

    • Haha – loved this comment

  13. I had an unusual failure of my disk brake equipped Alfine 11-speed on my German-made Retrovelo city bike. Pulling up to an intersection, I made a quick grab of the rear brake as a car ran the stop sign on my left. I heard and felt a pop. The flange that connects the disk brake to the hub sheared off the hub. I now had no rear brake. The flange sheared off so cleaning, that is was not readily apparent, and it took a bit of detective work to figure out what happened. At first, I thought the cable clamp for the rear brake came loose. The local bike shop, which professes to specialize in IGH’s, said they had never seen that kind of failure before. Shimano replaced the hub no problem. I did have to pay to have the wheel re-laced to the hub.

  14. It’s unclear to me if there is any option for a ‘mid-drive’ e-assist set up on a tadpole trike where I am using a Schlumpf HSD front crank and a Rohloff 500/14 speedhub in the rear. Any ideas?

  15. This might be a particularly stupid question, but I will ask anyway.

    When you have the mid drive motors why can they not have a gearbox within them and then you need a single cog on the rear wheel. Exactly the same as a motorbike. Shimano have the mid drives and IGH, why not have a cassette within the hub which is the gearbox.

    • Great idea. Cost is likely the reason. It also seems to me that the closer we get to something like that the closer we get to moped status and potentially more regulation.

  16. Excellent Ron/spinningmagnets. Hearfelt thanks for your work.

    As an Australian (EU ebike rules) a general curious point IMO, is the ebike press has been hijacked by a relative minority in the cycling world, if not the english language minority. For me it may be better if i read french or german :).

    ie, stuff is mostly written with a mindset of 700w & a battery to suit – minimum. Its a world of bikes to heavy to; lift, hang, transport on a roof or a rack…, and too dear for many in poorer countries. I appreciate that usa also suits such bikes – they have specific needs others dont, like big people & commutes, freeway centric …

    Still, it bears noting that for a sub 90kg rider, a 25kg alloy mid drive MTB w/ 250w is damn fine transport (mtbs seem mostly rated at 120-130kg total load). At worst its faster than u can run up a hill, and pedaling is optional with gears.That same bike, as we know, happily runs at 450w+, which from my experience, should keep up with traffic well, if adaptively ridden.

    So anyhoo, i was pleased you posited the notion of more modest power. I dont think america should ignore factory built (chinese of course) euro type bikes. A 500w~ such bike has much to commend it to many americans.

    Your story is a case in point. IGHs work fine, FOR HUMAN PEDALING POWER, NOT HORSES.

    Lose sight of that too much, and its trying to make a silk purse from a sows ear. No offense I hope. I do get that the fun part of ebikes is pushing the envelope, and thats what gets clicks, but i am a keen evangelist for getting plain non-enthusiast folks to do real commutes & errands by ebike rather than car, & i post in that vein.

    thanks again

  17. Is there any information about the nominal torque of these mid-drives? Would really appreciate.

    • Dajara, most of the Mid Drives I have come across seem to have a torque rating of around 80 – 90 Nm.

      • I have been running the Sturmey-Archer RX-RK5 5 Speed Disc Hub and think it’s great. Sturmey-Archer does not give a Nm value for the hub but they do claim it’s “heavy duty”. While I cannot guarantee it for the Luda – I would not hesitate to run it on one of my builds.

        So actually I am running the RXL-RD5, it’s the one with the drum brake – and I do not recommend this one. The drum brake sucks and is taking a long time to break in. But the RX-RK5 disc brake model is the one to get.

  18. Great article Ron, Thank you! Do you know about the SA RXL-RD5? It’s a Sturmey Archer 5 speed IGH with a drum brake.

  19. I thought this was a great article. Well thought out. I will just add one comment on the Cyclone 3000 watt. I have been running an Alfine 8 for over a year now without a single problem. I race my bike in some of the harshest off road conditions imaginable. I am also hot rodded running a Kelly KBS 7212SW controller at 55 amps continuous 100 amp peak or 72×55=3960watts continuous and over 7000watt peak. Here is a couple links to videos showing the bike I am talking about in race conditions.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnVw1oUWqjY , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo0wWdMGgoM , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EulyKMLrwZc ,

  20. Hi Ron, How do you go about determining a correct gear spread with a Power Assist? For example on a recumbent trike a good useful gear spread is considered to be about 12 – 15 Gear Inches for a low & about 105 for your high. If you add a 500 watt Power Assist, you would need fewer gears & I am assuming also a shorter gear spread. Is there a way of working out what a useful gear spread is with a Power Assist? Thanks for your help.

  21. Looking for the widest ratio in a 3-speed IGH for my mid-drive, I chose the Shimano SG-3C41 (the coaster brake just goes along for the ride). Being careful never to shift except when stationary, I still managed to break the internal pawls on the first day of use with my 690 watt setup. Has anyone else tried this hub? What were your results?

  22. Hi Ron, do you know if the Pawls (I think you call them dogs) are replaceable in the Nexus hubs? Also, do you know if they are interchangeable with different Nexus Models? Nearly every exploded view of the hubs I have seen does not show the Pawls as an individual item leading me to believe the only option might be to change the whole internal assembly. So breaking the Pawls becomes an expensive project for a $2.00 part.

    • Hi, This is Ron. Your question is a valid one. The Nexus hub is really meant to be serviced to prevent excessive wear and tear. I have never replaced parts on the nexus hub. It is possible to replace the dogs/Pawls, but by someone that has experience with IG hubs. I am proficient at following technical data from a manufacturer’s manual specific to a component. And that is what you would need is the technical manual for the Nexus hub and illustrated parts breakdown. It remains to be seem what the results could be. Let me know if you are able to accomplish this. Like I said before, many Nexus hubs are still in service after many years because the required cleaning and lubing was accomplished at the specified mileage intervals. Replacing and greasing the axle bearings every so often is important also.

  23. Hi Ron, is the Sturmey-Archer 3 speed a good choice for a Luna BBSHD Ludicrous. The SX-RK3 is covered in the article but are all of S-A 3 speeds the same quality? As a benchmark where would a SRAM EX-1 8 speed rank among the hub drives in this article in terms of performance, reliability, and durability when paired with High Power Mid-Drives 1000W+?

  24. Dunno what the hoozah about roloffs is. My housemate has one and it’s terrifically painful to use. Shifting 3 steps at a time, or not shifting at all. God knows what they charge to repair it, because you sure can’t do it yourself.

  25. thansk again , great article you and Sheldonbrown really help

  26. Hello, I could probably provide the best information on the Shimano Nexus 8 SG-s6000-8R. I have a 42 tooth chainring on my crankset and the the Nexus 8 on my speed commuter. Your article, “Mid Drive Kits, Dump the derailleur and get an IGH” ?, June 4, 2016, said that gears 1 and 2 are too low. WRONG ! On the Nexus 8, gears 1 and 2 are NOT low at all. I am thinking about changing my Crank-set Chain-ring to a 38 tooth Chain-ring. (presently it is a 42 tooth) With a 38 tooth chain-ring on my crank-set that will help gears 1 and 2 to be low enough to take me over moderately steep hills more efficiently. Most Internal gear hubs are NOT great at going up steep hills. A touring bike with a granny gear on the triple crank-set will go up steep hills much easier. So if anyone tells you internal gear hubs are great for going up steep hills, they need to go get drug tested. They are definitely on some serious trip weed. Now if you are talking about the Pinion Gearbox, that is another story. If your bicycle has the Pinion Gearbox then you could climb a hill as steep as the wall in your living room with no problem. I know I may be talking like I am a Mr. Know it all, but when it comes to many bicycle drive-train components, I am. There are many other areas that in mechanical and technical terms that I am Not knowledgeable about. My areas are bicycle components quality and performance and high end affordable home stereo audio components. That leaves me clueless on more than 10 millions other things. Can’t know it all ! Signed, Mr. I don’t know much at all.

  27. High I have a bbs02 i want to convert to a igh but there are no videos on how to so. Can i use my existing wheel and spokes. I have a voodoo Bantu 27.5 wheel mtb 22inc frame.

    • No. The rim may be used if the hole count matches the hub. IGH hubs have larger flanges so spokes are different plus spoke cross is generally less because of the larger flange. 27.5″ rim will help with spoke cross.

  28. Great article. Will either 3 spd work with a belt drive?

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