Conversation with Deputy Secretary Maurice Jones – 5/31/2013

HUD Deputy Secretary Maurice JonesFollowing is a transcript of the Deputy Secretary’s webcast. It was taken from the “official” transcript which accompanies the recorded webcast on HUD@work and modified for readability. It should be noted that the transcript does not capture the audio word-for-word, and in preparing this for the web, it was found that in some cases words or whole sentences were completely missing. Caution should be exercised in interpreting any of the information presented.

Conversation with the Deputy Secretary

May 31, 2013
1:00 PM EST – 2:00 PM EST




Good morning for folks who are in the HUD family. I appreciate your joining once again this conversation. We are going to do it a little differently this time. I think I mentioned to you last time I wanted to have some folks who are human capital experts in particular to talk with you about matters related to the transformations we are making in the field. I’m going to go over a handful of housekeeping items, and then I’m going to turn to Towanda Brooks and other experts in human capital matters, and they are going to talk to you regarding questions that have been arising as a result of our transformation announcements a few weeks back.


So let me start with the most important message that I want to convey, which is a sincere thank you. Thank you for the sacrifices that you are making on behalf of HUD and on behalf of the folks that HUD attempts to serve throughout the country. We did our first furlough day last Friday, and I am going to in about three weeks’ time, I want to get the financial data in, and I’m going to come back to you in about three weeks’ time, and it may be 30 days, but somewhere in that time frame and give you an accounting, if you will, of how we are doing under sequestration, under how much money we were actually able to save with that furlough day, and how we are doing in other parts of the sequestration or — yes, sequestration journey that we are on to attempt to continue to carry out the mission of the enterprise and hit the savings numbers that we are trying to hit. So if you will bear with me while we get the payroll data in and we get other data in in about 3 to 4 weeks, I will come back to you and give you an accounting of how we are doing.


Our second furlough day will be next month in June, and we will carry forward with that day unless sequestration ends, and I don’t see it ending between now and then, just as we have in this previous day, but I really want to just thank you. I know it’s a sacrifice, and I know it’s part of a sacrifice or journey of sacrifice that you have been on for quite some time, and I really appreciate your stamina and appreciate your continuing to serve the public with excellence even doing during really tough fiscal and budget and economic times.


Let me give you a few items of housekeeping.


First, originally our employee viewpoint survey was due today, meaning that today was the last day that you could actually participate. Well, the deadline has been extended until June 7th. So those of you who have not participated in the employee viewpoint survey, I would urge you to go online and take that survey, and you have until the seventh of June to do so.


Secondly, I just wanted to let everybody know that we commence formally our negotiations with our union partners next week, and that negotiation will center around the transformation announcements that we recently made with respect to policy and management and with respect to multifamily.


Thirdly let me highlight for you and encourage you to take a look at the updated questions and answers on the website with respect to the transformation announcements, and we updated them, and they are on the website, and you can, after this broadcast go up and take a look and I would hope you would do that, and keep sending us your questions, because the questions help us know what our updates should look like in the way of content.


Additionally I just want you to do, we mentioned a few weeks back when we made the transformation announcements we would be going out in the field and visiting with offices that were impacted and those have started and I’m about to start it in the next week to 10 days, and Carol, I know has been out, and Marie is out on the road. Pat Hoban-Moore is out as well. I want everybody to know, and everybody who is directly impacted by the transformations that we announced, we are going to come see you face-to-face, eye to eye and try to answer your questions and explain what’s going on and make sure we listen to your concerns, critiques and feedback in order to help us implement the transformations in the way that makes the most sense and in the way that is the most respectful that we can of our most important asset, our people. So keep your questions coming. You can e-mail those to


Now what I’d like to do in order to get an effort to get at some of the questions you have been asking about retirements and buy-outs and those matters is turn the remainder of the program over to Towanda Brooks and a panel of experts, and they are going to try to share with you information that I think will be very helpful in answering your questions. We won’t answer every question right now but we are going to do our best to get to the answers to your questions and over time with you, and so please keep them coming, as I say, thank you very much for all that you are doing for HUD and for the country.




Good afternoon, my name is Towanda Brooks. As you heard from Deputy Secretary Jones, the Department is committed to providing employees affected by the multifamily transformation and the office closures with information as it relates to employee options. Today we have subject matter experts who’ll guide you through the different options so you are able to make the best decision for you and your family. Our subject matter experts are actual HUD employees, and you may even have the opportunity to work with them when you discuss your options. The options they will share with you are relocation, career transition assistance programs and Interagency Career Transition Assistance Plan or CTAP. ICTAP. Each subject matter’s presentation was prerecorded, and we will not be taking live questions during today’s broadcast. Following the broadcast if you have unanswered questions concerning any of the topics covered today, please e-mail your questions at


Though I’m sure you want to hear specifics, I do want to let you know that many of the items covered today may be impacted by union negotiations we will honor our union obligations and share with you information as soon as we are able. Your knowledge, experience and dedication to our mission, we encourage you to continue your career with HUD. Therefore the first employee option we would like to discuss is relocation, and we recognize many of you are not familiar with the relocation process. We compiled tips to help you along the way. One, read the relocation guide online at HUD at work. Two, contact the National Relocation Center for counseling, and the NRC will prepare your travel orders and get the necessary approval from the approving official in headquarters. Three, if you are unsure of a process or entitlement, ask before you proceed. This will save you time and unnecessary stress and avoid unnecessary expenses. Keep all receipts associated with relocation. We have Kathy to share with you the knowledge on the relocation process. Kathy will go over some of the frequently asked questions.




Who should I contact when I receive my directed reassignment?

Call the National Relocation Center in our city at (817)978-5647 or send an e-mail to They will ask you to complete the questionnaire that will start the process.


What does the NRC do?

It’s made up of HUD employees who handle most of the details of your relocation from preparing the relocation travel orders, and finding a carrier for the shipment of your household goods to processing your relocation vouchers.


Is every affected employee eligible for relocation assistance?

Every employee who is given directed reassignment is entitled to relocation assistance as long as they meet the requirement of the 50-mile rule. And the 50-mile rule states the distance from your old residence to the new duty station must be 50 miles further than the distance from your old residence to the you old duty station.


How much is the relocation assistance?

Relocation is different depending on your personal situation; i.e., number of family members, do you have a home to sell? Do you plan to purchase? Where are you relocating et cetera? Once you know where you are going, a representative will be able to assist you with your options.


Is there a reference to a relocation?

Yes, the relocation site is a comprehensive source of information regarding your relocation and can be found on HUD@Work, under Tools, Travel and Relocation.


Can I use my government charge card for relocation expenses?

Yes, under the same guidelines you use to tdy travel.


What is the difference between the effective date and report date?

Your effective date is the date you are officially on rolls at the new duty station. The report date is the day you report to the new duty station. Sometimes the new duty station may allow you to report later than your actual effective date.


Do I incur any type of commitment to the Department if I accept relocation assistance?

Yes, you must sign a 12 month service agreement that states you will stay in federal service for 12 months. You can take a position with another agency, but if you leave federal service completely, you must pay any relocation entitlements reimbursed to you, including taxes.


Is it paid in a lump sum?

No. It varies based on your personal situation.


What am I entitled to when relocating to any new duty station?

House hunting, en route travel to the new station, 60 days of temporary quarters, shipment of household goods, and 60 days of storage of household goods, expenses associated with sale, purchase or lease breaking, and a miscellaneous expense and relocation income tax allowance. It compensates you for any taxes incurred because of your move. For relocation questions, contact the NRC in Fort Worth, and a staff member will be able to answer your questions. The main number is (817)978-5647 or you can send an e-mail to Your family with relocate later as long as it is within one year from your report date.


I am relocating from Dallas to Fort Worth. Am I entitled to relocation?

The ftr states the distance from your residence to the duty station, Dallas, and the distance to the new duty station, Fort Worth, must be 50 miles greater. If you live 30 miles from the Dallas office and 45 miles from the Fort Worth office, the distance is only 15 miles, and you might not be eligible for relocation benefits. However, the agency has discretion to prove it depending on the circumstances.


When can I take a house hunting trip? You should not take a house hunting trip until you have signed orders. If you choose to take it before your orders have been signed, it will be at your own risk, and you may not be reimbursed. However, the house hunting trip must be completed before you report to work at your new duty station.


How long do I have for a house hunting trip?

Up to 10 consecutive days to house hunt. This is considered duty time, and you will not have to take a leave.


What if I take a house hunting trip and I decide I do not want to relocate any relocation reimbursement will have to be repaid to the Department?

What is the difference between the lump sum and actual method of reimbursement for house hunting and temporary quarters, and which would be best for me?

Lump sum is a within-time lump sum payment that is located using the per diem rate. Each individual determines what is right for them. Once you determine the location of the new duty station, you can determine which one works best for your particular situation. Further discussion with the representative may also be helpful in making this decision.


How do I go about getting a mover for my household goods?

It will take care of that for you. They use three national carriers that can service any part of the country in Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico. The carrier will consult you regarding all aspects of this portion of relocation, but if you have specific concerns, you are encouraged to contact the relocation center.


What if I want to use a specific carrier?

The NRC will accommodate you if possible. It should be capable of interstate moves, have experience with government employees, and be familiar with the household goods tender service. They should not charge more than one of these we typically use. We currently use three national carriers, and we use the three on a rotating basis.


How long does it take to get everything in place before I can report to the new duty station?

It depends on your effective date and when you must report to the new duty station. The NRC will begin the process as soon as you contact them, depending on the time constraints and approval process can take as little as a few days.


Do I have to sell a house at the current duty station to purchase one at the new duty station?

You can use either entitlement without the other.


When can I put my house on the market?

You will not be reimbursed for any expenses incurred until you receive signed orders.


Under the relocation assistance, will HUD buy my home if I can’t sell it?

No. Will be reimbursed with certain expenses with the sale of your residence.


Can I provide my relocation vouchers on fed traveler?

No. Vouchers must submitted on the form.


Where do I send my relocation vouchers and who should sign them?

Send a signed copy along with the required receipts to the CFO Accounting Teams Unit No. 45, Suite 2500, Fort Worth, Texas 7. You may also scan in an e-mail or voucher to (817)978-5739. (817)978-5739.


Will they fly my pet?

The charge for their fare can be paid under the miscellaneous entitlement. Either a flat amount or you may itemize expenses for the actual expense rate. Transportation is the only expense allowable.


Is the relocation assistance taxable?

Yes, the majority of relocation is taxable. You will receive a separate W-2 from Fort Worth for all taxable relocation. Taxes are withheld at the time of reimbursement. The relocation income tax allowance is provided to offset the income tax.


How long do I have to stay in government service after I relocate? You are required to sign a one-year service agreement, depending on your situation, and if you may be required to repay all reimbursements you have received.


How long do I have to complete the relocation process?

One year from the court date. A one year extension may be granted meeting certain criteria, and vouchers should be filed within five days of completing each entitlement. By statute, no claims may be paid unless they are received within 6 years from the date the claim arose.


I hope the tips and the frequently asked questions were helpful. Please know we at the NRC are committed to providing you with the tools necessary for your relocation. We look forward to working with each of you.



Thank you, Kathy. If you have further questions related to the relocation process, please feel free to contact Kathy and her team in Fort Worth, Texas. For those of you that wish to continue your service with the federal government, be proactive, review and update your resume so if and when you decide to apply for other federal positions you are prepared. Visit on a regular basis to seek opportunities that may be available. Be familiar with the job application process and requirements. The next subject matter expert we have is Lee Dresser with policy development and we will share with you the CTAP and ICTAP frequently asked questions.



What is CTAP?

The Career Transition Assistance Program requires a selection priority to employees who are being separated for positions within the Department.


What is the eligibility for CTAP?

To be eligible for CTAP you must be displaced. For the purposes of these initiatives displaced means declined and directed reassignment outside the community area. You must also have at least a fully successful on your record and must be rated as a well qualified candidate.


How do I invoke by CTAP eligibility?

When applying for a vacancy, the position must meet the following requirements. One, it is at the same or lower grade level of the position you are currently holding. Two, it is in your commuting area, and three, it is open to CTAP candidates. When applying, you must submit all required documentation as stated in the vacancy announcement, along with your proposed notice of separation or the decision notice.


What is ICTAP?

The Interagency Career Transition Assistance Program or ICTAP is a selection priority program for displaced or separated employees.


How do I qualify for ICTAP?

To receive this priority, you must be one, a current or former career or career conditional employee who for the purpose of these initiatives has been displaced, because you have received a notice of proposed removal for declining a directed reassignment to another commuting area. Two, be applying for position at or below your grade level with no higher promotion potential in the commuting area of your current position. Three, have received at least a fully successful on your last performance rating. Four, apply for the position submitting all required documentation, and five, you must be rated well qualified for the position based on the criteria listed in the vacancy announcement.


What is the difference between CTAP and ICTAP?

CTAP is for positions within the Department while you are still an employee whereas ICTAP is for positions within other federal agencies, and that extends for one year beyond your separation date.


Do employees who are affected by the multifamily transformation or office closure qualify for the ICTAP?

If the employee meets the above eligibility, he or she would be eligible for ICTAP.


How does it work?

If you are found to be well qualified for an ICTAP position, you will be referred to the selecting official before other candidates outside of the agency. Just keep in mind ICTAP does not guarantee a position.


What are the steps employees must do to obtain ICTAP?

Jobs can be found on Make sure you submit the ICTAP application with your application packet, along with any other required information.


What supporting documentation must an ICTAP eligible submit?

Current employees will submit either the proposed notice of separation or if they have already received, the decision notice of separation. If you have already separated, you should submit your SF50 and your decision notice.


If I opt to look for a federal government job, what can I do now in preparation?

Our best advice is for you to make sure your resume is up-to-date and accurate and reflects your ICTAP status.


Who do I call if I need help with a federal government job application process?

Contact the human resource professional that’s listed as the point of contact on the vacancy announcement.



Thank you, Lee. I would like to tell you committed to providing you with career transition tools. As we develop each tool we will post them on the transformation web page. We share with you frequently asked questions related to two of your locations relocation and seeking another federal government position. Another option is buy-out and retirement, both regular and early out. We realize making the decision to leave the federal government is not easy. There’s a personal decision that must be made individually as it not only affects you but your family as well before the buy-out window opens I encourage you to visit the transformation web page. Contact your retirement counselor to request information on your retirement options so you are more prepared to make the decision when the buy-out window opens. Lee will once again join us to share with you the frequently asked questions on buy-out and early out.



What is a VSIP?

Voluntary separation incentive payment commonly known as a buy out allows a lump sum to eligible employees who agree to voluntarily leave the work force during a time of reshaping.


Who is eligible for a VSIP?

Basically, if you are serving in an appointment without time limits, have been continuously employed for at least three — continuously employed for three years you are eligible, if you are in a position that’s not covered by the VSIP plan or excluded by the agency’s buy-out plan. Serving under an appointment with the time limit. You have not been employed with the federal government for three continuous years or based on a retention or relocation bonus or student loan repayment benefit.


If I receive a buy-out payment, can I take a job with another federal agency?

Yes. However, I will be required to pay back your VSIP before, including the taxes before the first day of work.


If I’m eligible for a buy-out how much will my incentive be? Does everybody get $25,000?

No. $25,000 is the maximum you can receive. The individual amount will be based on many factors, such as length of service, age or current pay.


What is a discontinued service retirement, and can I retire under DSR and also receive a buy-out lump sum payment, too?

Discontinued service requirement is at involuntary separation. In this case, it’s based on a declination. Employees who are eligible for DSR are not eligible to receive a VSIP.


May I take buy out?

Yes, but if you receive a buy-out, you will be have pay the VSIP back.


What if I meet the eligibility criteria for a buy-out but I’m on military duty during the offer period? The uniform services employment and reemployment rights act are treated as though they are still on-the-job, and are not to be disadvantaged because of their military service, and that means if you meet the eligibility criteria during the offer period, you will be given the opportunity to participate if otherwise eligible, once you have been restored to your position.


What is VERA?

VERA, the voluntary early retirement authority is commonly referred to as early retirement. It expands the normal retirement eligibility to allow employees to voluntarily retire before they would be otherwise eligible.


Who is eligible for a VERA?

The basic VERA eligibilities are your current position must be one of the covered positions under the VERA plan. You must be at least 50 years old and have 20 years of service or any age and 25 years of service. At least a five of those years must be civilian service. You must have been continuously employed with HUD for the 31 days prior to the date we requested the VERA authorization. You can’t be serving on a time limited appointment. You must be paying into FERS or CSRS, and they must meet the one out of two requirements which says you must have been covered by CSRS for at least one year within the previous two years.


Can I retire under VERA and also receive a VSIP?

Yes. If you meet the criteria for both you can retire under VERA and also get the VSIP. Whose service is interrupted by military duty cannot be disadvantaged because of their military service. If you meet the eligibility criteria, you will be given the opportunity to participate if otherwise eligible once you have been restored to your position.


Does the VERA eligibility change the eligibility for regular optional retirement?

No. In fact, if you are eligible for a regular retirement and you want to leave, even if you are granted VERA, your retirement will be processed as a regular retirement.


What is the difference between VERA and the discontinued service retirement?

The basic difference is simple. VERA is voluntary separation, and the discontinued retirement is involuntary. Eligibility and payments are the same. The difference comes into play if you decide to come back to work after your retirement.


If I take an early retirement, is my annuity reduced?

It depends. If you are covered by CSRS your annuity will be reduced 2% for each year you were under 55 years old. FERS employees do not have the same reduction except if they have the CSRS component.


How do I know if I have enough time in service?

For employees affected by the small office project, the paid benefits and retirement division will be able to give you an estimated service computation date for retirement. For multifamily employees, please contact the Bureau of Public Debt.


Where can I go to get an estimate of my annuity?

For employees affected by the small office project, the Pay Benefits and Retirement Division will be able to provide you with your annuity estimate. For multifamily employees, please contact the Bureau of Public Debt.


Where can I go to get more information on retirement benefits? The Office of Personnel Management has a great website:


What is the effective date of my retirement?

You may select the date of your retirement but it must be effective after the date of the VERA authorization and no later than the date the VERA expires.


Can I delay the date of my retirement?

No. An employee must retire by the date established for the VERA window.



Thanks again, Lee. As we wait for the buy-out announcements, multifamily transformation and office closures, I encourage you to seek the time in counseling as soon as you can so you and your family will be better prepared to make a decision. I have Sandra Bratton. She’s our retirement benefits expert who explains the retirement process and answers frequently asked questions.



What is the first step an employee considering a buy-out should take?

How should they contact the Bureau of Public Debt and all office employees should contact paid benefits and retirement division.


Who are eligible for the buy-out?

Currently most of the positions identified under the small office project and multifamilies are eligible for the buy-out.


Are the steps different if an employee is calling in and talking to someone from the retirement and benefit section versus walking in?

No. Regardless if an employee received retirement counseling by telephone or walk-in, the procedures are the same.


When should an employee call for retirement consultation?

Employees affected by the small office project and multifamily transformation should call or e-mail even before the buy-out is announced to seek guidance on their options.


Who can assist employees with early retirement calculations?

Bureau of Public Debt for multifamily employees and Paid Benefits and Retirement Division for employees in the other program offices who are affected by the small office closure.


How long does it take for an employee to complete the VSIP process?

The VSIP is completed the same pay period at the separation action.


Is $25,000 the limit employees can receive during the buy-out? Why not more?

It varies depending on years of service and age. The VSIP maximum is set by federal law. Not everyone qualifies for the $25,000.


If an employee chooses the buy-out, is it taxable?

Yes, the VSIP payment is taxes both federal and state. Federal is taxed 25%, and state tax varies dependent on the state.


If an employee chooses the buy-out, do they receive it in a lump sum?

Yes. VSIP, otherwise known as the buy-out, is received in the lump sum payment minus taxes. It is deposited into an employee’s account similar to a paycheck.


Can an employee take the $25,000 and roll it over into an IRA shelter or do you still have to pay the taxes?

No. The VSIP cannot be rolled over into an IRA. It is mandatory that the VSIP be taxed.


Can an employee take the buy-out and still retire?

Yes. You can retire and receive a buy-out based on eligibility requirements.


Can an employee take the buy-out and get another employee federal job?

Yes, however, you must pay the full amount of the buy-out payment before taxes prior to the first day of your employment with the federal government or wait 5 years after receiving the buy-out.


Who is eligible for the voluntary early retirement?

Employees age 50 with 20 years of service or any age with 25 years of service.


If I take the volunteer early retirement, am I going to lose my life insurance?

No. The life insurance would carry into retirement; however, it is an employee’s decision to keep the life insurance and the amount of their coverage.


Are there any benefits that I lose by taking the volunteer early retirement?

Each employee’s situation is different. Please contact the benefits and retirement counselor.


Does a voluntary early retirement affect the employee’s TSP?

If you withdraw monies from the TSP account before the age 59 1/2, you may incur a early withdraw penalty and taxes will have to be paid. Contact TSP for further information.


If I take the buy-out do I get a payout for the sick leave and annual leave at the same time?
No. There is no payout for sick leave. The lump sum payment will be paid approximately 4 weeks after separation; providing there is no indebtedness to the federal government.  — indebtedness to the federal government.


Is there a difference between the FERS and retirement?

Yes, if FERS 50% will be used to additional service credit. For retirement effective January 1st, 2014, 100% of unused sick leave will be used to additional service credits. CSRS and retirement, 100% of unused sick leave will be used for additional service credit.


Is there an annuity reduction if you take an early out retirement?

If you are under CSRS your annuity will be reduced or 2% a year if you are under age 55. If you are under FERS, your annuity will not be reduced.


If an employee doesn’t have five years to continue with health insurance, will they be allowed to take it into retirement if they take the early out?

Yes. The five year continuous federal employee health benefit coverage will be waived under the early out.



Thank you, Sandra. As a reminder, housing employees should contact and all other employees contact PBRD. We realize for some employees relocating may not be an option. If you make the decision not to accept the buy-out you may be involuntarily separated from the government. In this instance you may be eligible to receive severance pay. Once again we have Lee who’ll share the frequently asked questions related to do severance pay?



What is severance pay?

It’s authorized for full-time and part-time employees who are involuntarily separated from federal service and who meet other conditions of eligibility.


Who is eligible for severance pay?

You must be serving under a qualifying appointment, have a regularly scheduled tour of duty. Have completed at least 12 months of continuous service and be removed from federal service by involuntarily separation through no fault of your own.


Who is not eligible for severance pay?

There are a couple of reasons you wouldn’t be eligible. But the most common ones you are serving in a nonqualifying appointment or eligible upon separation for an immediate annuity from the Federal Civilian Retirement System or from the uniformed services.


Are the employees affected by the office closures and the multifamily transformation eligible for severance pay?

If an employee meets the above criteria and declined a directed reassignment for the position outside the commuting area, then he or she will be eligible for severance pay.


How do I know if I qualify for severance pay?

If you decline the directed reassignment to the position outside the commuting area, you will be provided a notice of involuntary separation, which will let you know all of your rights.


What are the qualifying appointments?

The most common qualifying appointments are a career or career conditional appointment in the competitive service or the equivalent in the accepted service. An accepted service appointment without time limitations except under Schedule C or an equivalent appointment made for similar purposes.


What are nonqualifying appointments?

The most common types of nonqualifying appointments are an appointment in which the employee has an intermittent work schedule, a presidential appointment, an emergency appointment, a time limit appointment. The most common time limited ones are a term employment, veterans approval appointment and a presidential management fellows appointment.


How is my severance pay calculated?

Based on years of service, base pay, and if over 40 years old, an age adjustment. We will be posting an estimated severance pay worksheet on HUD@Work, so you can estimate your amount.


How is severance pay paid?

Severance pay is paid biweekly at the same rate as your current salary until the Department pays your total entitlement. Severance pay is subject to the same tax deductions as your regular pay.


What happens if an employee who opts to receive severance pay is reemployed by the federal government?

If you accept a qualifying position with the federal government or District of Columbia, the severance pay is forever. And you accept a nonqualifying position then it’s suspended while you are working in that appointment but resumed when you separate.


I am eligible for a regular retirement, however I don’t want to retire. If I’m involuntarily separated, can I receive severance pay?

No. You are not eligible for severance pay if you are eligible for retirement.


I’m not eligible for regular or early retirement. Which is better, buy-out or severance pay?

It depends on you and your personal situation. You will need to weigh several options, the biggest being if you intend to return to employment with the federal government.


Who should I contact if I have additional questions regarding severance pay? Contact your servicing HR specialist if you have any questions relating to severance pay.



Thank you, Lee. As an employee affected by either project, I have final recommendations as a starting point of gathering information that will help you make the right decision. I recommend you review your service records and show your records are complete and accurate. Your retirement counselor will walk you through the process as well as provide you with important information that will help you make a decision on your next step. Finally visit the transformation website on a regular basis. We will post the latest frequently asked questions. Additionally you will find links to the topics covered today, including today’s webcast. We are committed to providing you with information to help you make an informed decision for you and your family. I hope this broadcast helps inform you of your options. We look forward to working with you. Thank you.