terencebogards 3147 points3148 points 9 months ago

Do not say there’s a ‘chance’ of him being re-elected like it’s a long shot. That’s exactly how we treated him in 2016 and look where we are. His ability to not be pinned down by the media and fact that he’s been campaigning non-stop for 4 years already should be a warning. Do not underestimate our country’s stupidity again.

RTPGiantsNorth Carolina 2099 points2100 points 9 months ago

We're about 1 year from these headline dominating the news:

  • Can you trust Elizabeth Warren when she hasn't answered a voice mail in 2 years?

  • President Trump truly became a president today after reading a speech on children's experience with puppies

Abrikandilu 1176 points1177 points 9 months ago

I was reading an article (CBC) about the Democrats who have thrown their hat in ring for presidency. The author pondered if Warren would be able to get past the whole thing with her aboriginal ancestry. I was shocked. The fact that some piddly ass shit like that is still considered to stick against her after all the shit that has slid off Tump is absolutely absurd.

kenlubin 621 points622 points 9 months ago

Trump scandals only last a week because within seven days he's said something else totally outrageous and everyone in the media moves on the new scandal, forgetting the old one.

With Democrats, one small thing gets thrown at them again and again and again while it blows up beyond and comes to define them. But it never actually mattered, and as soon as they stop being a threat to the Republican candidate everyone forgets they ever cared about the issue.

augustm 305 points306 points 9 months ago

everyone forgets they ever cared about the issue.

I seem to remember something about a caravan that was real important for a while there

sexrobot_sexrobot 28 points29 points 9 months ago

Michael Dukakis looked dumb in a tank. Howard Dean screamed too loudly into a microphone.

sinfoid 43 points44 points 9 months ago

The fundamental strategy of the Republican party basically means that any Trump scandals basically have 0 impact on the chances to win elections. Their strategy is simply to have a brainwashed base(which they do), and then use any means necessary to make sure that the brainwashed base are the only ones who have the ability and motivation to vote. Part of this strategy is of course good old fashioned voter suppression, but another is trying to demotivate people from voting. If you look at what Russia did in 2016 their main strategy wasn't to get people to the polls to vote for Donald Trump, even they knew that was wasted effort. Their strategy was to convince people that Clinton was just as bad as Donald and that they should stay home/vote for a 3rd party candidate(one that coincidentally was on their payroll).

They need to attack democrats because getting people to stay home on election day is their only path to victory.

preston181 12 points13 points 9 months ago

Pretty much this.

Here’s the trouble: A Democrat has something come up from their past, like say Al Franken, for example. Dude is in a picture making a groping motion towards a sleeping woman. Not really any context, (not that it makes things better. It’s a photograph, and it looks bad in today’s “me too” environment), but it was other Democrats that called for him to step down, and he did. So, the issue is that when someone on the left side of the aisle does something, people over on the left side of the aisle have a higher standard, and they take it on the chin, and ultimately end up losing people from them stepping down.

You can’t even do the right thing, because it costs you people. The right side of the aisle? Forget about it. You’ve got Fox News going up to bat for you, and you can even run a pedophile for public office, and nearly win.

The whole thing with the governor and lieutenant governor is now coming to a head. In the end, one or both, (the lieutenant governor at the very least, with two sexual assault allegations), of them will likely step down. The Republicans will win again, and we move right on to the next scandal.

I want leaders who will fight, to the point of literally fighting. These people are fascist fucks that disregard a position that even resembles good faith. They’re out there lacing up Nazi jackboots, and meanwhile the left is sitting here buttoning up cardigans and humming the theme song to Mr Roger’s Neighborhood. It’s going to take more than memes of Nancy Pelosi’s clapping at Trump to put this shit down.

I want to see nonstop investigations, and the pressure turned up to 11. That committee the other day, where Whitaker got his ass grilled? Do that some more. Subpoena Trump, and put his ass in that seat. Go over his tax returns, line by line, and ask the hard questions, like, “What’s all the political donations from foreign entities?”, and “when did you stop negotiating Trump Tower Moscow?”, and “why did you disregard the findings of our intelligence reporting?”. Make his ass answer with yes or no, and no pontificating allowed. See how fast he loses his shit.

Kiwiteepee 5 points6 points 9 months ago

Because Democrats eat their own and Republicans dont, for better or worse.

Dire88 4 points5 points 9 months ago

It's called "Outrage Fatigue".

yebyen 1 point2 points 9 months ago

I wanna hear "what is your name and affiliation, sir?" next time they ask Elizabeth Warren about her heritage or lack of heritage. The next time there's a gaggle of press and they can't think of anything else to ask Elizabeth Warren besides this garbage, I want her to get personally offended and remind everyone that if they persist, she's just not going to entertain their questions anymore.

The media does not decide who is the front-runner, she has nothing to fear from them and they should have to earn their access; if they think this is important to me, they've lost it. The only people who care about this are voting Trump anyway.

This is sick!

DiscoStu83 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Because there's plenty of Republican, gop, conservative think tanks and groups who love to spend money. They're not afraid to dial up the propaganda spending. I can honestly say that this isnt new (seriously, we are dealing with the continuation of the same mindset passed down through the past 300 years at least) just more exposed and its gonna continue to be part of our lives as Americans. I'm glad I know who is who and what is what though.

sk8tergater 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Well that and she’s a woman.

Bury_Me_At_SeaIowa 0 points1 point 9 months ago

So you're saying we need Anthony Wiener?

BorderlinePacifist 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Democrats are held to a higher standard

eltoro 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Trump is Mr Burns. He has so many scandals, that a single one can't fit through the door and crush him.

BigBobbert 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Well, Hillary’s not a threat anymore, but look how much they still care about her.

eaunowayAmerica 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Outrage fatigue is real.

pieman7414 358 points359 points 9 months ago

The Democrats have maintained basic standards into this age

Theyve got the moral high ground, it's just a damn shame it doesnt serve too much of a purpose

Musiclover4200 359 points360 points 9 months ago

Republicans realized all that matters is that you insist you have the moral high ground regardless of how low you stoop.

YakuzaMachine 11 points12 points 9 months ago

Sexism will play a role. Not just that the Democratic party has higher standards but that the Republican party has double standards.

Pastro218 4 points5 points 9 months ago

It’s not the democrats that are the issue. It’s the republican version of events. Their bias is so obvious and yet so overlooked.

Diesel_Fixer 7 points8 points 9 months ago

To true, I hate to say join the shit show, but come on, sling a bit of poo.

LiveFreeOrLibtard 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Exactly. Preach about the high road all you want, but at the end of the day everyone knows that the low road will get you there faster.

Snipercam7Great Britain 1 point2 points 9 months ago

People seem to forget that holding the high ground was beneficial because it meant you were able to be far more effective while raining death and destruction upon those below, and your charges downhill were far more devastating.

EdyUtz 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Ummm, not here in Virginia.

throwaway_4733 0 points1 point 9 months ago

These things are cyclical. Once upon a time Republicans had the moral high ground but realized it did them no good so they traded it in for electoral power.

dcarey20 0 points1 point 9 months ago

It's over Anakin!

RoutineTwo 96 points97 points 9 months ago

Have you considered contacting the CBC to let them know this? That they're elevating her flaws to the same level as his, by virtue of the 'fairness' principle.

DaBingeGirl 90 points91 points 9 months ago

MSNBC keeps talking about it too. Nothing about what she's done regarding policy, just how the DNA thing is playing. It's driving me crazy.

LetGoPortAnchorThe Netherlands 4 points5 points 9 months ago

Confused European here. Is her aboriginal ancestry considered a flaw? Why?

kingtz 4 points5 points 9 months ago

It called False Equivalence.

It’s a type a fallacy that the media can’t stop making constantly. Even today, they think it’s a good idea to “hear from the other side” no matter how stupid, ridiculous or marginalized the “other side” is.

haikarate12 2 points3 points 9 months ago

I think you're confused. The CBC is Canadian, there is no 'fairness' principle at work here. They are simply reporting on what's going on in the United States, that everyone is fixated on this story while completely letting Trump's racist tweets from this weekend slide. Don't blame the CBC for reporting on what your own media/population is focused on.

JamesGray 0 points1 point 9 months ago

It was most likely either an opinion piece, or they were talking about how that "scandal" could damage her chances, which is true- not just something you'd say to be fair. The standards on one side compared to the other just aren't even in the same galaxy. Trump does multiple things per week that would completely ruin most other candidates, and pretty much any left leaning candidate would be hearing about it for years- like Warren does about that stuff.

Positronic_MatrixCalifornia 6 points7 points 9 months ago

I have Catholic in-laws who are convinced (truly) that Trump is a foretold anti-Christ. As staunch conservatives with whom I have sparred for decades, this point of view is simultaneously refreshing (because I’m a liberal) yet at the same time troubling (because I’m an atheist).

Their argument is that he embodies all of the seven deadly sins simultaneously; he is worshipped like as a false god; and that he will bring about (via prophecy) the end of the US and the world.

Honestly, they scare the shit of this skeptic every time we’re together.

lamontredditthethird 7 points8 points 9 months ago

Dems can't move the narrative forward, change the narrative, or control the narrative. That's why they get swift boated, birthered, or pinned as clowns who invented the internet. I have no faith that Warren can put anything behind her. She, like Obama and his bullshit birth certificate controversy, will be defending herself against this stupid attack by Trump and his allies for a long time to come.

LIONEL14JESSE 9 points10 points 9 months ago

The question remains, which we sadly they may have gotten wrong in 2016, do the democrats fare better sacrificing the “right candidate” in favor of electability?

It’s awful that it’s come to this, but if the whole “Pocahontas” bs is going to stick with enough people, is it the pragmatic decision to choose someone else? It’s terrible to ask, because politics aside Warren should absolutely get a fair chance, but have we hit the point where winning is too important?

Kerrigore 15 points16 points 9 months ago

The Republicans will find something equally or more damaging regardless of who the Democrats run. It’s what they do best. They’re only pushing the Pocahontas thing because Warren seems like the front runner. They’ll invent something whole cloth if needed, they shown time and time again that they have no shame. They did it against Hillary, and the fact that so few people realize it just goes to show what a good job they did.

Honestly the fact that this seems to be their best shot against Warren gives me hope, but I wouldn’t put it past them to be holding back something worse for after she wins the primary; releasing anything too damaging now just means the Democrats will pick someone else.

One of the critical errors the Dems made was sticking with Clinton even once it became obvious that too many people on both sides had been swayed by the GOP propaganda machine (and frankly, a lot of people were still bitter about her from the Clinton vs Obama primary).

KingHavana 8 points9 points 9 months ago

He could cheat on his wife three more times, and illegally use money to pay off the girls, and his popularity would only keep rising among the religious right. It doesn't make any logical sense, but it's what happens.

terencebogards 7 points8 points 9 months ago

There will always be a character like Trump, able to dodge all this shit, but hopefully it will only be contained to certain candidates with certain personalities. God help us if 90% of the politicians dodge 90% of the shit they do... wait, thats almost where we're at anyway....

PenguinSpriteNew York 3 points4 points 9 months ago

That's America for you. We will gladly focus on the hot gossip of the candidates while not focusing on the real problems. I am a big supporter of the First Amendment and I understand where the press is going but all I have to say is this. DO YOUR JOB RIGHT. We are about to get a chance to get rid of the orange tumor of democracy and we need someone that will bring about policy plans that Americans support overwhelmingly. Instead we get panels dedicated to minute details that have nothing to do with their campaign. The media right now is a powerful weapon that needs to be used to provide accurate information about everything if we want to win 2020.

franky_emm 2 points3 points 9 months ago

Maybe she should stop apologizing for it over and over for months on end. I turned on the news the other day and the top story was "Warren apologizing." I'm like aren't we over this 3 months ago? Paul Manafort got caught colluding with Russians, sharing polling data with the GRU, and that barely cracked the top headlines for a day or two. The media is fucking incompetent. Trump makes racist comments every say about what Warren is apologizing about for fucks sake!

Vinny_Cerrato 2 points3 points 9 months ago

There is an incredible double standard in the media where Democrats get crazy scrutiny and treated like actual political candidates, while the GOP gets away with murder out of some absurd need to appear “neutral or unbiased.” There was no better illustration of this than the Matt Lauer “debate” on NBC where he interviewed Hillary and Trump separately. Hillary went first and he grilled her nonstop about buttery males, Benghazi, and whatever, treating her like an actual adult running for President of the United States. Trump’s turn comes and the first thing Lauer asks him is what color he is going to decorate the Oval Office with, like he was some plucky underdog on a reality show.

JoeyJoeJoe00[🍰] 1 point2 points 9 months ago

I mean, Trump's stuff still sticks to him too. It's not like people forgot, and when they do it's because he did something even more ridiculous.

mokomothmanIowa 1 point2 points 9 months ago

I would say it's based on the grounds that she gave into the peer pressure and sunk to his level by getting a DNA test to prove her ancestry, which was pretty offensive to other indigenous people.

TheBenBarronPodcast 1 point2 points 9 months ago

The problem was she was apologetic. Anyone going against Trump needs to not give two shits what anyone says about them.

MRCHalifax 1 point2 points 9 months ago

My mother won’t shut up about it. My mother also talks about how we have native heritage. Somewhere among our ancestors. Probably.

The funny thing is, she’s a left wing voter. She just hates voting for any woman. There’s always something wrong with them, she just doesn’t quite trust them for some odd reason.

Notreallypolitical 1 point2 points 9 months ago

What "thing"? She said she had rumors of native ancestry in her family and that ended up true. How is that a thing? Talk about a made-up non-issue. Do you know how many people believe they have native ancestors? Hmm, claimed to have some sort of native ancestry, actually has some, what a scandal? My idea of a scandal is putting babies in cages. Or being put on the Supreme Court despite numerous sexual assault allegations, perjury before Congress, and, btw, acting like a whiny bitch who shouldn't be near a court. Authors like that deserve to be asked, how high are you, because we are done pretending anything the media invents is a scandal.

zimzambIe 1 point2 points 9 months ago

If you don’t understand were the good guys and they’re the bad guys by now here’s your wake up call. We can’t do a single thing wrong because we care, they can do what they want because they don’t. I’m so close to moving to Canada it’s not even funny

older-wave 1 point2 points 9 months ago

It's because the media actually is fake news, but for the opposite reasons Republicans are crying about

decanterTexas 1 point2 points 9 months ago

The media has already started zeroing in on scandals they can exploit for all the big candidates. Warren has the "heritage thing", Harris has the encouraging prisoner labor issue, Sanders has the poor handling of sexual harassment within his 2016 campaign. All of them are poised to become the "Hillary's emails" of 2020.

Meanwhile Trump wields actual power to hurt actual people every day while continuously committing actual crimes with no consequence. We've learned nothing.

darek97 1 point2 points 9 months ago

You say that but emails are just as stupid an issue to focus on.

take5b 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Democrats promote a philosophy of actually trying to practice good government. Of course whether they accomplish it or are genuine is another thing, but at least it's a stated goal. So it's easy (and fun!) to pick on every thing. Republicans have adapted the attitude that it's stupid to even try. This makes it "ok" for them to misbehave, creating the double standard.

That's why Warren's stupid DNA video is equal to everything Trump has said and done, according to this preposterous framing.

pattyG80 1 point2 points 9 months ago

It's incredible. We can't elect the woman because her DNA test revealed only a low percentage of native blood. We have no choice but to elect an alleged rapist slumlord.

ahump 1 point2 points 9 months ago

she is a woman. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the type of stuff she wasn't allowed to get away with.

morbidcactusForeign 0 points1 point 9 months ago

If the article I found is the one you're referring to, it's from the associate press. While it may be worth contacting the ombudsman about it, it isn't actually a cbc article.

nixonrichard 0 points1 point 9 months ago

The only thing that matters is voters. Do voters care that warren lied about her race? Do voters care that Trump is a pussy-grabber?

It's a legit question whether or not, in our hyper-identity-focused era right now, Democrats will care about someone lying about their ancestry.

arpie 0 points1 point 9 months ago

At this point, whether on purpose or not, whether conscious or not, it's a tactic.

Keep your opposition having to explain the most absurd things all the time, and in such quantity that it's hard to deal with.

It's easy on the attack because you can just make shit up. How do you disprove so many lies? How do you disprove just plain made up bullshit? How do you do that over and over when the lies and bullshit stick even after being thoroughly disproved? How do you offer a blanket enough is enough, just look at what he does pretty much all the time defense if, even after all this, all the demonstrations of lying and bullshit, the base just couldn't care less, changes their stances just to fit the new norm, or just denies reality altogether?

Feels over reals, they feel he represents them even if a lot of what he does and even says is against their alleged principles... And they're not necessarily bad people, probably wouldn't do it themselves. It's all really bizarre.

tyler-86 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Well, the people Warren needs votes from actually care about the integrity of their candidate.

AmateurOntologist 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Part of it has to be because the Democrats (at least pretend to) care about offending other people and constantly apologize for any perceived offense. That allows their critics to keep throwing these things back at them and make them squirm by continuing the narrative.

OTOH a big part of Trump's persona is to not apologize, not be PC and just "say it like it is". So while the media cycles are constantly outraged at something or other that he did, him not dwelling on it nor apologizing for it lets the conversation move on to the next outrage that inevitable comes the next day. It has been effective to have thousands of dramas lasting for one or two days rather than a few dramas that last for years. And the few that have been able to stick, namely his relations with Russia, will likely be the end of his presidency.

[deleted] 0 points1 point 9 months ago

The Warren DNA thing is less about getting past independent and GOP voters and more about making it out of the primaries. It was a stupid thing for her to do. Especially when there is a seriously diverse field forming on her side. It came across as tone deaf and insensitive. Best she can hope for is to stay on the good side of the eventual winner and get named treasury secretary...which would be an even bigger win for her than the presidency.

Deeptrance83 0 points1 point 9 months ago

It’s a Democratic problem. The GOP doesn’t eat itself alive like liberals do, it’s part of the problem.

lostmylogininfo 0 points1 point 9 months ago

I love Warren but that while situation showed she is not capable of going against people like Trump. Sure I would vote for her but I don't think she is very strong at this point.

Battle_Toads 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Racism is a powerful tool in the hands of the self-righteous.

minuscatenaryNew York 0 points1 point 9 months ago

The fact that white writers and commentators are acting as the ethnicity police with Warren will be seen as horrifying in less than 10 years.

Race and ethnicity are cultural constructs. You are what you think you are. I sure as fuck can't police that (as a mixed race man that easily passes off as white) without encouraging systematic oppression / racism.

Bruno_Mart 0 points1 point 9 months ago


It's true though. Warren threatens the income stream of corporate Democrats. They can and will use anything against her.

People forget that Hillary got one of Sanders' former classmates to lie and say it wasn't him in the pictures of him leading civil rights protests. That lie spread all over the mainstream and social media just a few days before the primaries in some of the blackest States in America.

Eventually the actual photographer spoke up to rebut the lie but hardly any mainstream news networks ran the story and the damage was done.

That's why they call this the post-truth era and why the craven nature of corporatists should not be underestimated.

The_Nick_OfTimeWisconsin 0 points1 point 9 months ago

you have to remember, dems take bad shit seriosuly. just look at the fiasco in virginia, if that was republicans there wouldnt be a question all those people are staying. having principals makes things harder but its the right thing to do. (not that im criticizing Warren, honestly have no opinion on it)

jimothyjones 0 points1 point 9 months ago

It's up to them to push back on the reporters and say where were you when Trump was doing this? Make them run away with her tail between their legs.

magicfultonride 0 points1 point 9 months ago

It is awful, but it's true. He may be a fucking piece of shit narcissist and not terribly intelligent in the classic sense, but he knows how to bob, weave, and distract so he can get his way, no matter how much he fucks people in the process. It's literally the one thing he's actually good at. His entire career is built on it.

deloreanguy1515 0 points1 point 9 months ago

You want trump to win again? Then go ahead and put up Warren. She is essentially the same person as Hillary and that will not get you the middle America votes you need

niccolaccio 0 points1 point 9 months ago

The problem isn't necessarily her heritage, it appears that she has been dishonest about her heritage and how she has benefited from it.

xURINEoTROUBLEx 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Trump is the fucking Teflon Don to his base. And the native shit will hinder her. GoP is going to hammer on it hard.

Athrowawayinmay 0 points1 point 9 months ago

It's because democrats care and democrats have very strict purity tests. Democrats would gladly throw away an election and give power to republicans if it meant maintaining their purity standard.

I mean, just see the current situation in Virginia. For democrats it is apparently better force people out of power and force people to step out of politics if they've ever done anything questionable at any point in their past regardless of their current committment to progressive ideals and instead let current and openly racist bigots be in power.

So yes... Warren's "native" heritage absolutely could still ruin her chances to be president. She's not "pure" enough for democrats to dare allow her take power. And that may very well mean we get Trump instead. I hate the short-sightedness of democrats for this.

therealusernamehere 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Like it or not, just because things do not stick to Trump doesn’t mean everyone has a pass. Warren specifically advanced her career by claiming First Nation status which allowed her to bypass other qualified persons of color and First Nations with no real basis or challenge from her perceived status. It seems more like a fun story she told at cocktail hour. True white cultural appropriation. Also seems hypocritical to rail against soaring college costs but charge a $300,000 salary for teaching a single class at harvard.

Species7 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Yep that's just how it is in the US. Some people care about stuff like that; they're on the right. Some people don't care about that; no wait they don't exist because both sides love identity politics.

landspeed 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Spoken like someone who is completely out of touch with the personalities of this country.

LogicCureSouth Carolina 9 points10 points 9 months ago


If I have to hear the media fall over themselves one more goddamn time about how he's about 'pivot'

JevvyMediaForeign 2 points3 points 9 months ago

Every time he gives a SOTU address, they claim that he truly has become Presidential.

[deleted] 1 point2 points 9 months ago


lampishthing 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Tbf how do you think Julius Caesar got so popular.

HeirOfHouseReyne 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Puppy? Puppy? No you're the puppy!

Justanaveragehat 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Literally all Trump has to do to win is reign in the crazy, I don't know if he is actually smart enough to do that but it's got to the point where he has really high approval ratings just because he hasn't said something insane. All republicans have to do now is take advantage

DDELFIERRO 1 point2 points 9 months ago

I’m more hoping for “Will acting President Pelosi run for re-election in the wake of the crippling scandals that removed both Trump & Pence from office?”

falcon_jab 1 point2 points 9 months ago

I like your optimism.

I see near-daily headlines promoting Trumps latest tweet about rigged voting.

ForLotsOfSubs321 2 points3 points 9 months ago

I pray that warren is not our front runner.

AsleepEmergency 0 points1 point 9 months ago

If Gabbard were nominated she would win.

DerekPadula 0 points1 point 9 months ago

The Puppy Who Lost His Way?

silverbackgranola 0 points1 point 9 months ago

“The world was changing, and the puppy was getting bigger...So you see, the puppy was like industry, in that they were both lost in the woods and nobody, especially the little boy, "society", knew where to find them. Except that the puppy was a dog, but the industry my friends, that was a revolution.” -Trump in 2020, probably

ConsciousLiterature 0 points1 point 9 months ago

We already have "Elizabeth Warren can't be president because she drank a beer on her video". And that's coming from the left!

JesusLordofWeed 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Copywriter infringement is a serious crime, Fox news is gonna die your ass for stealing their headlines.

rocknrollnsoulIndiana 0 points1 point 9 months ago

President Trump truly became a president today after reading a speech.


GeekyAine 0 points1 point 9 months ago

I also can't wait to have it mansplained to me for the next 20 months how the only way to be sufficiently ideologically pure as a Democratic candidate is if you're a geriatric, white, male, New Englander.

smuckola 0 points1 point 9 months ago

BUTTERY voicemails

mwgknight 0 points1 point 9 months ago

"President says he's the only one for the job based on experience"

RTPGiantsNorth Carolina 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Obligatory thanks for the gold (my first). And thanks for all the people contributing their own below. Maybe we can have a better discourse this election, who knows.

abuttholeNew York[🍰] 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Warren won’t be the nominee, but it’ll be like

-Amy Klobuchar didn’t help her neighbors build a swing set

-Donald Trump hasn’t sexually assaulted someone in a month, he’s so presidential

wiithepiipleMississippi 120 points121 points 9 months ago

His benefit of being able to talk out of both sides of his mouth during the 2016 election, allowing people to ascribe whatever things they wanted from him while dismissing what they didn't like about him as hot air, isn't going to be there in 2020. We've seen what 4 years of Trump looked like. It's hard to sell the incumbent as an outsider, which was another part of his rhetorical appeal.

MrIosity 162 points163 points 9 months ago

Dunno why we talk about the nation as a whole when we know that the next election is going to be decided by 6 states.

yourmansconnect 42 points43 points 9 months ago

Why are the swing states like the worst states in the country? And i live in nj

fizzlebunsCalifornia 13 points14 points 9 months ago

Because if they were decent, they wouldn't be swing states.

[deleted] 2 points3 points 9 months ago

Im a big fan of Wisconsin. Our politics though...not so much

Aemilius_Paulus 2 points3 points 9 months ago

Depends, I live in VA, really like it, lived in many countries and states before settling here. So much variety of locations to visit, very livable cities too (though countryside, as usual, isn't a great place to live in).

VA did not decide the last election, but it was crucial for Obama, as he was the first in a while to swing it blue, even Clinton couldn't get VA to go blue.

thechaosz 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Jersey strong!

gets_that_reference_Washington 19 points20 points 9 months ago

Not if the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact has anything to say about it.

Already 2/3 of the way there, another near third pending. If that legislation passes, and one or two more states join, then there are no more swing states.

NecroParagonIllinois 11 points12 points 9 months ago

When you can't get rid of the electoral college so you just ignore it, I was pleased to learn about this a few years ago and it's gained a lot of traction. Glad to be in one of the signed states.

EnglishMobsterCalifornia 4 points5 points 9 months ago

Michigan could do it. That being said, I don't think all the pending states are going to pass that legislation.

cuntitled 2 points3 points 9 months ago

The states are going to be interesting next election. I believe there is a correlation between the states most impacted by the tariffs and farm subsidies, and who will not vote for trump. Many agricultural areas have a blue-voting city nearby, and those agricultural areas are about to get so messed up. The crop price is going to be too high for the farms to afford their quote. Suicide rates will rise and the Republicans will lose their red state base.

sgtshootsalot 7 points8 points 9 months ago

Turnout is the key. Any state could flip if one side could increase turnout, National turnout is about 35%,

TheGoddamnSpidermanCalifornia 16 points17 points 9 months ago

Turnout is definitely key, but that number is laughably off. Are you just looking at voters over the total population? You have to look at at least the voting age population (54.7% in 2016) or better yet the voting eligible population (59.2%). The number is also 60.1% if you count people who voted but just didn't vote for President

source: http://www.electproject.org/2016g

CertifiedAsshole17Arkansas 6 points7 points 9 months ago

Couldn’t help but laugh at the 20 or so anti-Trump people while travelling the US.. “so did you vote?” “No I never vote” well then you shouldn’t complain.

VirtualMoneyLover 1 point2 points 9 months ago

You mean 3. Whoever wins 2 of PA,OH and FL is the president.

BlueberryQuick 2 points3 points 9 months ago

Ohio here. They're about to pass a heartbeat bill that the previous Democratic governor consistently rejected. Ohio will go to Trump.

RIPEOTCDXVI 1 point2 points 9 months ago

"Listen. Without the electoral college, California and New York would just decide every election." -Person who is okay with Florida and Ohio deciding every election.

felesroo 0 points1 point 9 months ago

And those have serious issues when it comes to their elections.

abuttholeNew York[🍰] 0 points1 point 9 months ago

That’s why we need Klobuchar to be the nominee. Kamala can get people in the coasts excited, but Wisconsin and Michigan are going to go hard for the midwestern mom.

KP_WrathTennessee 19 points20 points 9 months ago

We don't need to take any chances on this. He did it once, he can do it again, if we let our turnout fail to meet his turnout. Two things old people do in numbers like no other: Share misinformation and vote.

TheDuck00 12 points13 points 9 months ago

The generation that told us to not believe everything we see on the internet is the same who believes everything they see on Facebook.

kmonsen 3 points4 points 9 months ago

The turnout is also needed to keep the house and flip the Senate. Especially in those swing States.

shitpersonality 3 points4 points 9 months ago

His approval rating has been taking a hit since November.

ButterflyAttack 4 points5 points 9 months ago

I fucking wish.

Incomprehensible though it is, trump remains popular and will be hard to beat. I'd have thought that at least when people saw their tax returns, they'd turn against him. . . but that doesn't seem to be reflected in the polling.

Edit - I agree that Gallup data shows his ratings falling - but I don't think there's any room there for complacency.

TheGoddamnSpidermanCalifornia 6 points7 points 9 months ago

If you look at the tracker on 538, he basically was dropping because of the shutdown from the looks of it (bottoming out at 39.3% on January 26), and now that it's over it's slowly been reverting back to it's normal levels. Same thing happened when the Republicans were failing to get rid of Obamacare and passing their tax cuts. It's clear there's a group (maxing out at around 5-6% of the public) that are fine with Trump as long as he's not actively trying to pass policy they don't want


rabidstoatGeorgia 1 point2 points 9 months ago

But there was one Rasmussen poll that had him at 52 percent so that's the only poll that matters to him.

CanuckYou2 2 points3 points 9 months ago

The % of Democrats that approve and strongly approve of him has been increasing since November? That’s really surprising, even if it’s the only good news for Trump in that cluster of a graph.

Go_Cthulhu_Go 1 point2 points 9 months ago


The "non-interventionist" who is going to "bring the troops back" but also expand the war on terror and get tough on countries like Iran?

The guy who questions why we don't use our nuclear arsenal and who asks why we don't raid countries for the spoils of war and then calls Clinton a hawk?

CyclonusRIP 1 point2 points 9 months ago

His support was basically all the single issue voters plus a bunch of people completely detached from reality. I'm not sure 4 years in office really changes the math much. The right wing media is already working overtime to vilify the emerging 2020 candidates. It could very easily come down to a bunch of low info voters picking "the lesser of two evils again."

wiithepiipleMississippi 0 points1 point 9 months ago

The right wing media won’t have a decade to slander the Democratic nominee.

rangoon03 1 point2 points 9 months ago

You have to wonder if the Russians will be back for 2020..I sense they will be. Hopefully the Mueller report comes out soon.

RaynSidewaysFlorida 16 points17 points 9 months ago

Thank you. I keep seeing a lot of "There's no way he'll win," and "He'll get destroyed in 2020" on this subreddit.

We thought exactly that in 2016. "There's no way Hillary will lose." Well, Hillary lost. People already think the same thing about the wider republican party. They think the senate win means GOP will be utterly destroyed in 2020.

Until the day Trump and the rest of GOP are removed like the dug-in ticks that they are, we need to assume that every battle will be bloody and hard-fought. There will be no easy victories, no guarantees, nothing, if people get complacent AGAIN.

sexrobot_sexrobot 8 points9 points 9 months ago

There's practically no way for Trump to get destroyed in the electoral college, because Trump's main demographics are so overrepresented in the EC. It's much more likely that Trump will slump badly in much of the upper Midwest much like he did in the midterms. This would lead to a narrow EC loss, but a much large popular vote loss than he got last time.

This analysis, of course, is based on today's political environment and not the one that will exist 21 months from now.

terencebogards 4 points5 points 9 months ago

I'll never forget such wide-sweeping sentiment that HRC was going to waltz into the oval office like nothing. There are NO guarantees. We thought the GOP pool of candidates was the LAST group we'd ever see! We thought they would elect one of these idiots and lose! We thought Trump was going to get STOMPED!

We were WRONG. And we can be wrong again if we're not careful. All they need to do is turn the headlines the other way and America will follow suit without thinking. We need to re-establish journalism as a the business of the truth it should be. We need to stop sharing news from weird blog websites, we all do it. We ALL need to work harder on spreading, confirming, and re-assuring the truth and the legitimate sources it comes from.

Making the American public distrust news was the most critically disruptive thing the GOP could have done.

Tsar-A-LagoCanada 18 points19 points 9 months ago

The advantage for incumbent Presidents is massive. It's early days yet, but he stands a pretty good chance of being re-elected, as impossible as it is to believe, considering he's a staggeringly incompetent shit-gibbon.

terencebogards 9 points10 points 9 months ago

All he needs is a Mueller report that doesn't 100% say 'Trump=Serial Felon' and he has a good chance. Elections are about whipping up your base and getting them to believe in your campaign promises, which 75% of Americans would call 'campaign statements' that they don't hold the politician responsible of following up. It's always excused as 'all politicians say that stuff on the campaign trail'.

sexrobot_sexrobot 3 points4 points 9 months ago

Trump has a number of things working against him that traditionally incumbents do not. He lost, and lost badly, a historic midterm in which his base turned out. People in this thread will not be complacent about doing everything in their power to defeat him. He is possibly the most hated President of the modern era. And most importantly, Republicans are losing two more years in a demographics battle that Bush/Rove tried to head off but were effectively pushed aside by the nativist/Know Nothing Republicans that now dominate the party.

My argument is that Trump's general shittiness means that he is not going to get the traditional 'drift in the wind/low info/I wanna vote for the winner' incumbency vote, because people will have already made up their mind by then. The Republicans best bet is to run an independent spoiler and then rail against the Democrat with all of the hate that they can muster(an impressive amount as always).

I'm not even sure a war would spike Trump's numbers, because Trump simply doesn't have the ability to pick up new voters at this point. He is all in on a terrible rightwing talk radio agenda, and his cultists will be with him to the end but no one else will.

[deleted] 5 points6 points 9 months ago

This is correct. Speaking strictly from a stats pov, he won the swing states and the electoral map hates Democrats. He isn’t a long shot to get re-elected, he’s a legitimate candidate. And if the Democrats pull that same BS they pulled with Bernie back in 2016, guarantee he’ll get re-elected. The dems have to be really smart this time.

TrophyGoatNorth Carolina 10 points11 points 9 months ago

I reject any suggestion that Trump is anything but the favorite. We have to come to terms with the fact that 2016 may have been an 8 year mistake. The power of incumbancy cannot be overstated. Plus, he will obviously get that endless free media all over again

terencebogards 4 points5 points 9 months ago

And if the (giant) Dem pool of candidates looks half as stupid as the 2016 GOP group, they'll be skewered. Remember how stupid they looked on stage? when they would get caught up on camera walking out, and look so bumbled and flustered? Shit doesn't stick to GOP politicians because there's more involved in backing them. Faith is a strong force. People still supported Roy Moore. Aren't all Dems asking for Northam to resign?

Different playing fields.

The_Quibbler 4 points5 points 9 months ago

He’s also raised more campaign funds than any other in history. Not a trump-talk joke, actually factual iirc

thechaosz 2 points3 points 9 months ago

Fuck I voted but I'm I was in WA so ya....

terencebogards 4 points5 points 9 months ago

Every vote counts. It's simple. Look at the democratic primary. There were moments where they literally flipped coins to decide counties.

I'm worried that in the internet age, theres no way we'll ever see voting margins with clear margins like 70/30 and shit anymore. Theres SO MUCH information and so many points of view, that clear consensuses could just be harder to find.

Still, every vote counts.

3is2 2 points3 points 9 months ago

His ability to not be pinned down by the media

Isn't it more the media's reluctance to pin him down?

terencebogards 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Nope. The paradigm of 'trusting' the media shifted in the past 5-10 years. I mean on a wide scale. The internet provided DOZENS of additional sources to every story.

There have been dozens if not hundreds of articles that would have ended other campaigns or presidencies. None of them have stuck, yet.

We only got social media (on a wide scale) in like 2012. I knew it would effect that current election, and it did. But we never could have expected Russia getting involved, or the power of fake news on social media.

We need to reestablish trust in the media. They're doing that job. We need Mueller to do his, and we ALL need to work together to spreading fact-checked articles and links from trustworthy sources, not weird-ass blogs and third-party news sites.

[deleted] 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Agreed. I'll go further and say that I estimate that our country's white population is f**ked-up and trashy enough to turn the Trumps into a political dynasty. This crap's not even close to over.

terencebogards 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Yup. He has name recognition, constant news coverage, and home field advantage. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS in the next year and a half, all that matters is actually taking legal action against him. SDNY or Mueller need to come out with damning proof, and the House (or the DOJ themselves) need to act. The DOJ needs to react accordingly to the Mueller report, and can go off a non existing precedent of not indicting the President.

zelman 1 point2 points 9 months ago

No be fair, he did lose the popular vote.

SovietPenguins 1 point2 points 9 months ago


All of the media outlets said there's no way. All of reddit thought there was no way. All of the internet thought there was no way. But apparently there was a way because he got elected. Completely shook the system.

The only way for him not to get elected is for people to go out and vote.

phaiz55 1 point2 points 9 months ago

I'm honestly shitting myself at the thought of him getting another 4 years. I know so many people who will vote for him next year because he's a fucking "Republican". I wonder what would happen if we made political parties illegal and just elected people based on what they believed in doing.

billy1928New York 1 point2 points 9 months ago


The incumbent president has a significant advantage in elections, and belive it or not trump is expected to win in 2020, if we don't want an extra 4 years of this shitshow we have to make a concerted effort to remove him.

Oaknot 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Seriously, my Facebook feed is still full of family that support him. I think most people who voted for him will do the same.

Straydog1018 1 point2 points 9 months ago

The literal worst mistake we could currently make right now is to assure ourselves that he doesn't have a chance at being elected again. It's exactly that perceived notion that he didn't have a chance which led to his original election win. I'm cautiously optimistic that his actions since taking office actually did loose him a great deal of his original supporters, especially in the agricultural and government areas. You are always going to have his die hard supporters who wouldn't turn on him if he killed their entire family in front of them, but I'm crossing my fingers that he lost enough support that his die hard group isn't going to be nearly enough

PCMR_Grave 0 points1 point 9 months ago

His approval rating is <40%.

terencebogards 7 points8 points 9 months ago

So? Obama recovered from <40%. Clinton recovered from <%40. Trump has a North Korea summit at the end of the month? The last one bumped him up at least 5% on some polls. He still has his base, and if he can blame this 'no wall' thing on the Dems and get away with it (GOP & Dems just agreed to 'NO Wall' in the budget), he will KEEP his base.

No matter what Mueller is doing, we can't just expect this to go away. We tried hard in 2016 and we have to try harder now. Do NOT underestimate the emotions and headlines that can be toyed with in the next 1.5 years.

PaulRyansGymBuddy 0 points1 point 9 months ago

And then one of the biggest confluence of black swan events ever happened

gynoceros 0 points1 point 9 months ago

The difference is that now people who aren't his base have seen exactly why "never Hillary" was a dumb fucking reason to vote for trump.

terencebogards 1 point2 points 9 months ago

Hopefully, yes. It's not a certainty though.

Nya7 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Honest question though, is he not too old? I mean seriously, he might already have slight dementia

Lostpurplepen 0 points1 point 9 months ago


Fireproofspider 0 points1 point 9 months ago

FYI just because he was elected in 2016 doesn't mean that it wasn't a long shot. Sometimes unlikely things happen.

PrequelPooDoo 0 points1 point 9 months ago

This is the number 1 comment in this thread.

Also when it comes to his election in 2016 don't forget to thank CNN and the rest of the news media.

falcon_jab 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Very good chance he will be elected again, going purely on how fucked up everything is at the moment.

Talking about a man here who pretty much does something near-impeachable every week, but no one in any significant position of power will do anything to sort it out.

Trump is not the cause. He is the symptom. Regardless of whether or not he gets another 4 years, there are bigger problems that need to be solved.

KAM7 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Yeah, the Democratic primary is going to be a blood bath. Whoever wins that will be bruised and bloodied with a fractured party, Trump will be clean and fresh and ready to fight dirty. It’ll be 2016 all over again, and I won’t know what to do.

ohgimmeabreak 0 points1 point 9 months ago

And, that’s discounting any possible Russian interference in the elections. If it happened once, what’s to stop it from happening again?

WolfLawyer 0 points1 point 9 months ago

As much as it pains me, if I were betting I'd bet money on him being re-elected. He's not even campaigning yet but democrats are busy branding themselves as the party of 70% tax brackets and free college. It doesn't matter that they aren't actually doing that or that it's more nuanced than that. Nobody cares enough to understand that.

Trump won 2016 because a huge bunch of people thought Hillary was running on a platform about transgender bathrooms or something. Watch it happen again.

CopperMTNkid 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Also calling the country stupid for voting for him is another reason you lost the election

Funkytrip 0 points1 point 9 months ago

On the other hand, the democrat base is totally hyped up now. They will not stay at home like they did with Clinton. Trump has the same base he had in 2016 MINUS all the troll votes or anti-Hillary votes by disillusioned voters. He will be obliterated. Simple demographics.

The only thing that can make him win in 2020 again is democratic voters staying home. And truth to be told, I think democratic voters may be that incredibly dumb again. Goldfish memories and all.

MrPositive1 0 points1 point 9 months ago


Your post should be permanently added to the top of every political subreddit until after 2020.

Just take a look at his rallies. They look the same as when he was campaigning, if not bigger now.

And what’s even crazier is that many keep going back to using “the polls” as a reliable source for Trumps re-electability and success. The same polls that said he was going to lose big.

lostmylogininfo 0 points1 point 9 months ago

DNC please just step aside so we can win ok? No need to alternate half your base.

humanoptimist 0 points1 point 9 months ago

There’s zero chance of re-election. It’s hard to hold rallies from a prison cell.

kaydub88 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Gotta bring me down on Tuesday...

jimothyjones 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Let's not kid ourselves here. We all know cheating has occurred in Georgia and I imagine in the nut to near future will end up finding the extent of how far the cheating has gone. The majority of Americans did not vote for him and I'd even go as far as saying some of the electoral college has been compromised.

Lereas 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Dems are going to shoot themselves in the foot again, because they're too concerned about their moral purity to fucking work together. Just look at this week when you had the new muslim rep who supports BDS making anti-semetic tweets. Whatever you think about BDS and such, that's just one more thing where the dems are ripping themselves apart.

If you're a GOP guy, "Hey, you like guns? Hate abortion? Cool, you're in" and that's it. Doesn't matter what else you think, basically.

RonGio1 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Clinton wasn't that good of a candidate/campaigner. In Ohio she was warned that lower middle class and poor white people were polling hard for Trump because of her comments.

Ohio has some really rough areas that need help and acting like white privilege of helping an economically depressed and opioid addled Ohio(especially NE) is not going to win votes.

mwgknight 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Especially with Putin, possibly China (?), pushing him to win.

meanstreamer 0 points1 point 9 months ago

We lost so many citizens to Canada in 2016.

__TIE_Guy 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Well TBF it is not just the media. It is his opposition that is out of touch with reality. Bernie Sanders, AOC, even Avenatti would verbally wipe the floor with him. Hillary Clinton could have done that she was just not capable of doing that.

llamadramas 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Indeed. The rhetoric is already shifting to finish the wall.

dudeARama2 0 points1 point 9 months ago

Especially if the Democrats nominate one of their "darlings" who is popular only with the elites on both coasts but polarizing to the rest of the country.