Four m31's in One Hand... Good or bad?

edited February 2015 in Magnets
My first post here, though I've been reading up on magnet implants here and elsewhere for awhile.

I've purchased four of the new m31 discs from and am keen on installing one in the tip of each finger of my left hand.  I'm looking for anyone with experience with multiple implants in one hand.  I'd be placing them as laid out by Cassox in his blog/videos (and this thread), i.e. distal phalanx with the pocket located somewhat ventrally, probably on the thumb-facing side.  How likely are they to interfere with each other while healing (disturbing each others' positioning)?  How likely are they to interfere with each other for sensitivity purposes?  Anecdotally, having two seems advantageous, but does anyone have a firsthand account of having four in one hand?

The reason I want to "go big" like this all at once is because I'm going to take a week off of work for install and initial healing.  Since I'll be off work, I'll be able to limit use of the hand quite easily for the first week.  I don't know when I'll be able to take a week off again to add additional magnets so I'd like to get an array all at once if it really would be advantageous to have four.

I'm likely going to self install with some assistance from a friend with a medical background (if I can convince her; haven't actually brought it up yet but I think she'll be game for it).

I'm very excited about this and am looking forward to any responses :)


  • So, my suggestion is that you put two in each hand. Depending on which finger you put them, you will be either stimulating the ulnar or median nerve lines. Make the Vulcan sign. The ulnar nerves are fingers on the pinky side of the V, the median nerve is for the fingers on the thumb side. If you put two on the same nerve line (like pinky and ring finger) we have found that there isn't much of an increase in sensation. However, if you put one one in the ring finger and one in the index finger, you are stimulating two separate nerve lines which leads to an increase in sensation.

    Increasing up to 4 may cause some increase in sensation, but in theory, it would be a smaller increase than the addition of the second magnet on the second line.
  • the way i was gonna do it was one in my index finger, one in my pinky, one in my thumb and one in my wrist. this will serve several purposes. to test out a less used site i.e the wrist and thumb, to be used for a compass thing im working on so if you notice this could be seen as the cardinal direction when the fingers are spread out, and finally to cover the most area to see if this increases sensation at all. 
  • edited September 2014
    Thanks so much for the reply (and thanks for your part in the m31 magnets; they sound fantastic and I can't wait to get them).

    Regarding implantation in both hands, I've got two concerns:

    My left hand is my non-dominant, and I am somewhat concerned about exposing an implanted magnet to the sorts of impacts and stress a person's dominant hand experiences.  In your opinion, is dominant hand installation much of a risk?

    The other consideration is the upcoming magnets you talked about in this thread (the increased strength ones you mentioned on page 1).  I'd like a "virgin" hand to compare with the m31s in the other hand once they're available.  And if you would care to comment, in that thread, were you referring to the cylinder magnets Amal mentions later in the thread, or to something else entirely?

    So many things to think about.  This is the most exciting thing I've done in a long while.  I feel like a blind man who will soon be able to see...

    *** EDIT *** - Posted the reply before you commented, drjaaz.  Compass sounds interesting...
  • dominant hand installation is not really a risk as long as you are careful during healing. its more of a matter of people forgetting and fucking things up by using their hands.

    as for the new mag, virgin hand action, eh, its a little more complex than that, as far as the next series of mags will go. first, the m31s will continue to be available. the preorder was limited, not the objects themselves. we are still doing the cylinders, but we are concerned about tissue damage. however, y'all ask, we deliver. not our problem. the other version has to do with altering the magnetic field to increase surface sensation, but that's aways off still.
    regardless, as previously discussed, comparing a cylinder to a 1x3m mag is not going ot get you any reasonable data. you can have a preference but you cant compare per se.

    part of why we are doing things the way we are, with the proper testing, etc, is that we are trying to standardize and quantify things so people dont need to test and compare. Cass swapped out some of his old ones already for the m31s. when we finally get around to making an upgrade, you can replace the old ones with little issue if you want. we will also have data available so you can decide if it is worth it.
  • Again, thank you for the input.  The altered magnetic field sounds intriguing.  Something I'll be sure to read up on when a release gets closer.

    Regarding the cylinders, do you have any idea of strength and/or size you'll be shooting for?  Something that'll fit an RFID injector, maybe?  I don't honestly know if I will ever do cylinders, but knowledge is power, right?

    I'll be thinking about what you said.  Maybe two per hand would make sense...  As soon as my magnets arrive, I'm going to get that week of scheduled and get them installed.  Very exciting stuff.
  • has anyone tried two in each hand? also i thought there was a third nerve line in the thumb? 
  • Cass has two in each hand. I'll make him get on the board and tell you guys about it.

    The nerve in the thumb is part of the median.

  • It's possible. You'd definitely have sensitivity to greater area simply due to the additional fields. I personally think of these magnets more like an interface/spot sensation type of enhancement. Because electromagnetic fields decrease in strength by something like 1/r3, we really aren't going to be able to get serious sensitivity much  beyond what we're already getting from a single magnet. An array of magnets gets past that issue but I"m not sure how advantageous 4 will be vs 2.

    On the other hand, the fields the magnets will interact. You just might get some seriously cool previously unknown effect. Let me know how it goes.
  • @cassox do the magnets in one of your hands interfere with eachother affecting sensitivity to outside electromagnetic fields?
  • No actually. I can't account for why although I have a rather fleshed out theory. Having two magnets provides significantly more sensation/effect in my experience.
  • Hmmmm.... I just realized I can adapt my compass idea to a slightly modified system that works for 2 magnets in each hand or 3 in one hand. I was partially doing it so that i could explore the nearly unused location of the wrist to see if the sensation would be different. Now that i ponder it, I may try a pointer, ring, wrist configuration with 3 magnets instead of 4. I actually kind like that better.
  • Based on your post, Cassox, I'm going to do my original plan of four in the left hand.  And today I approached the friend with medical experience about helping me out and she said she'd be happy to.  She offered to do the entire procedure for me, but I've got a huge desire to do at least one of them myself (just for the experience of it, I guess...)

    Just ordered some supplies (sutures, scalpels, etc.).  Hopefully my magnets arrive soon.  I will definitely be reporting back here with how it goes (and maybe posting a video of the procedure; several people I know have expressed an interest in filming it).

    Anyone have an idea of shipping times on the m31s?  And are they still being sent pre-sterilized?
  • @aviin check out the new magnet design beta thread. @Amal commented the shipping times in one of his last comments..
  • So he did!  Thanks.  2-3 weeks after the 2nd of September...  That puts it at likely this week!  Nice!
  • yeahh, I'm extremley excited!
  • edited September 2014
    I've been looking at diagrams of the hand's nerves while I reflect on what's been written in this thread and in email correspondence with @Cassox.  It seems to me that if I'm going to be doing four implants in my left hand, I might as well try to get two on each nerve line (ulnar and median).  I think (perhaps mistakenly) that getting half the signal on each line would be preferable.  Nerves have some kind of bandwidth, yeah?  Obviously something like this shouldn't saturate the line (or even any significant portion of it), but perhaps at the processing end, might it be better to attempt this sort of simple load balancing?  Unfortunately wetware doesn't treat information at all the same as hardware, so this could all be moot (and likely is).  Then again, it can't hurt, right?

    Because of this, I'm now considering placing the magnets of digits 4 and 5 (ring and little fingers) on the opposite side of the fingers from what I originally envisioned.  The change on digit 4 would shift the implant from the median to the ulnar line.  The change on digit 5 is simply to prevent the implants in digits 4 and 5 from sliding past and attracting one another as I open and close the hand.

    I'm wondering if anyone has any information on whether or not either nerve line has greater priority in the brain when it comes to signal processing.  Also, is there any significant difference in nerve density in the digits compared to one another?

    As an aside, this post was originally far longer and filled with biobabble (which I am just now beginning to get a grasp on), but I rewrote it before hitting submit.  Here are two links left from the earlier iteration that I think others might benefit from:

    Diagram of the nerves of the hand

    Anatomical terms of location

  • @aviin Thanks for those links. They will help me for sure in the placement of the two m31s I have planned.
  • edited September 2014
    @aviin I once saw a diagram of the hand that graphed the sensitivity of each finger. Unfortunately I can't seem to find it, but from what I remember digit 3 was the most sensitive followed by either 4 or 2 and the least sensitive was 5.
  • My scalpels (the last remaining piece in the puzzle) arrived today after a long delay.  I am keen to get the magnets implanted.  The issue I have now, though, is that I've apparently gotten sick.  Common cold or something like it.  Pretty rough as these things go but I should be fine in a few days, I'd think, so I've decided to wait until I'm better.

    But I am wondering...  Should stuff like this be delayed because the implantee is sick?  Does it really matter?  Probably better safe than sorry, but I am now curious as to what others might have to say on the subject.
  • As you said, I would definitely recommend waiting until you're feeling 100% again! While you are ill, your immune system is busy dealing with whatever infection is currently attacking, so you don't want to create another potential access point for bacteria to get into. Wounds will take longer to heal during an illness as well.

    On a more practical level, if you have a scalpel blade stuck halfway through your finger and suddenly feel a sneeze coming on, that's a risky situation where you may have no time to react. In this example, safe most certainly is better than sorry! Don't rush yourself, and get well soon :)
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