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Experiencing the HEALING Environment of a Near Death Experience







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Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Hey everybody. Bob Olson here with Afterlife TV. You can find us at This is where we search for evidence of life after death and ask the meaningful questions around that subject. Today we’ve got a special guest who we have had two other times. There’s a reason for it. Her name is Natalie Sudman. She had an incredible near death experience.

The first time I interviewed her I thought I was going to get through that whole experience. Halfway through the interview I was like, no way are we going to get through it all. I recognized at that point that there were sort of three phases to her experience. We covered phase one in the first interview, phase two in the second, and this is phase three that we’re going to cover in this third interview.

For those of you who are familiar with Natalie, you can welcome her with me. Welcome back, Natalie. Thanks so much.

Natalie Sudman: Thank you. Thank you for having me back again.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: This is exciting for me. I know it is exciting for my audience who have watched those two other videos. We’re going to create this so that people can watch this singly. If they’ve never seen you before, they can watch it and follow along and understand it. Because what’s interesting about near death experiences is that everything’s happening at the same time, so you put it in chronological order for our human brains, but the reality is they were like three separate experiences, right?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah, or all one experience. Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Thanks. Thanks for that. Mess us up even more. That’s right.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah, with no time and space it’s almost like they were all happening at once in one sense.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: That’s great. Get into the deep stuff right away. Don’t hesitate. Let’s mess with people. Let’s catch people up to speed who are not familiar with your story. I’m just going to say that you were in Iraq, where this story all took place. What were you doing in Iraq?

Natalie Sudman: I had been working for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and I was doing basically different kind of project management. So on this day I, along with some colleagues, had gone outside the wire to visit some of our construction sites. After being outside the wire four or five, six hours, we were on our way back to base, and the vehicle that I and a colleague were traveling in was hit with a roadside bomb.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: So that’s what starts this whole thing. Again, I’ll just repeat a few times, we talk about all the stuff we’re just going over here in depth in two other interviews, so you’ll get all that information. If you’re like, wait, no, don’t skip through, I want that now, you can certainly get that information. So the bomb goes off. This leads to what?

Natalie Sudman: I immediately was somewhere else, and I call this place that I’m saying I first went the Blink Environment. It’s like I just blinked there. I was in my body, and then I was not. I was in this other environment.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I love that. I do. I blinked, so I’m in this environment. I’ll call it the Blink Environment. I just love the way you think. The Blink Environment, just tell us briefly what happened in the Blink Environment.

Natalie Sudman: I was surrounded by a whole stadium full of other beings or people or personalities, and I was downloading information to them. They were absorbing that information and sending me gratitude. Then I said that I wasn’t going to go back into my body, or I communicated that to them. They communicated to me that they would really like me to return to my body to do X, Y, Z. I said, oh, that sounds like fun; sure, I’ll do it.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Once again, Natalie.

Natalie Sudman: Easy to change my mind.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: She’ll agree to anything. Just hey, want to do an adventure? Sure.

Natalie Sudman: Sure!

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: You say yes, and then you think about it later. This is cool. So again, first video is what that’s all about. You get through this Blink Environment experience, and that brings you to something that you call the Rest Environment. What’s the Rest Environment?

Natalie Sudman: It was almost like folding completely into myself, and by going totally in I was in an infinite space. This infinite space was just really, really comfortable. It’s where I was resting. I was recuperating. I was kind of poking through things that had happened in my life and saying, oh yeah, that worked out great; cool, I want to do that again or whatever.

There was another being there that was sort of doing mechanical tinkering but not interacting with me really, just sort of like taking a car to the mechanic, just a lot of very deep, deep rest. It’s really a beautiful, beautiful environment.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Then the next environment after this Rest Environment was the subject of today. What do you call this environment?

Natalie Sudman: The Healing Environment.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yes. Why is that?

Natalie Sudman: I worked on healing my physical body from this environment.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: The physical body.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: So this is very cool. So you’re in the Healing Environment. Is there a switching between environments, or like you say, they’re sort of all happening at the same time? How does that work?

Natalie Sudman: In describing them to anybody in this physical world it doesn’t make any sense that it’s all happening at once. So breaking it down into a linear progression, it’s just easier for everybody to understand and comprehend.

Switching between these environments, I say that it was just like blinking. In a way it’s like just turning your focus. I can focus on our interview right here. I can look up and focus on the green leaves outside the window. It’s that simple, and it’s total. So in moving into the Healing Environment all I did was shift my focus and I was there.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay. I like that. That’s easy to understand. Is this the first environment where you had an awareness of your physical body that was still in the truck?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: First awareness of that, interesting. Why do you suppose that is?

Natalie Sudman: I think certainly when I went to the Blink Environment I didn’t have any interest in even returning to the physical body. I mean I was like, who cares. Then when I went to the rest and recuperation I also had no interest in the physical body. Because it’s sort of like I talked a little about what an intense focus it takes to stay in the physical body and be in the physical body, and so in a way that rest and recuperation felt essential to sort of relax that a little bit and kind of chill out and regain some of my awareness of who I really am and just some serious deep rest.

So again, I didn’t have any interest in the physical body there, but then once I get to the Healing Environment I’m moving toward returning to my body. So now my physical body matters because that’s the vehicle I’m going to go back into.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, sure. Now all of the sudden you care. But it’s interesting because in the second interview we talked about the first stage where you’re in the stadium and there are all these beings. You said potentially thousands of beings. You’re downloading information to them, and I asked you, is it possible that that was just happening and when the bomb went off you then became aware of it? Your answer was yes, correct?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: So my question, though, is: These other two environments, the Rest Environment and the Healing Environment, seem in response to the bomb going off, to something happening to your body because of the bomb. So where the first environment, the Blink Environment, was probably already happening and would’ve happened whether the bomb went off or not, these other two, are they in response only to the bomb going off?

Natalie Sudman: Go right for the heart.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, I’m sorry.

Natalie Sudman: In my understanding this requires some kind of awareness or some kind of discussion of probable realities and strings of experience. At the same time that this me I was concentrating on and focusing in and going through the experience of being blown up and then Blink Environment, Rest Environment, now Healing Environment, there could well be another probable line in which I didn’t get blown up and I didn’t get injured.

I mean just because of the way our human minds are trained and how we perceive from a human body and what serves us in having this physical experience, we block out a lot of things. So there could be an infinite number of Natalies out there in an infinite number of realities having an infinite number of experiences. Even for me that’s just mind boggling, and it doesn’t really help my perception here in this world to try to figure it out.

I mean sometimes I’m kind of aware of that or I think in a kind of bemused kind of way, wow; well, that’s okay because another Natalie is getting to have that experience. But it’s too confusing to actually try to live every single moment of your life aware of that just because of the way the collective consciousness is.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: But at least in this reality we can say that the second two environments were in response and the first one was going on not in response to it.

Natalie Sudman: I think that maybe I would say that the first one was going on maybe as an event that a lot of Natalies maybe participate in. Then the Rest Environment and the Healing Environment maybe a lot fewer or maybe only this Natalie is experiencing that.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: No, that’s actually great. No, that makes sense to my puny little human mind. The Healing Environment, tell me if I sum this up right. The Healing Environment is about you healing your physical body that’s still in the Land Rover in the physical realm to a place where you want it, your higher self, your whole self, as you call it—I would use the term “my soul”—but your whole self where you want it for whatever you’re going to do from this point on once you go back into your body and continue life, right?

Natalie Sudman: Yes.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: It’s about healing it and leaving certain injuries and everything in such a way that you can complete what you want to do when you come back here, right?

Natalie Sudman: Yes, I mean it’s about choosing my own injuries. In a way healing, that word doesn’t even make sense because all I was doing was changing. Healing makes sense from the physical perspective because we think of being injured or being well. We make those dichotomous judgments. But from a whole self it wouldn’t necessarily be healing; it would just be changing. So from that environment I was able to change the injuries in my body and choose them very specifically. The ones I chose were going to help me place myself in the trajectory that I wanted to follow in this physical experience.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: So I kind of set you up. Now I set you up. The question that I have then is: I can only talk in human terms, so at this very moment in time a split second after the bomb has gone off, are the injuries to that physical Natalie real or potential?

Natalie Sudman: Oh wow, that’s a good question.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: That’s what we’re here for. I’m so lucky to get to ask these questions of you.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah. I’ll try to put it in terms that can be understood. Say that when I blinked to the Blink Environment the first thing I said was, okay, I’m done. I don’t want to go back. I’m not.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: That’s funny.

Natalie Sudman: So it’s almost like I chose those injuries so that they would just kill my human body. So I come back and essentially there’s no time and no space. I’m coming back to the same point where I made those injuries, but now I’ve got a different intention. So now I’m just going to change those injuries.

In a sense I suppose it’s almost like a split moment because I imagine that as probable realities go that that dead body Natalie went on its own trajectory. I just changed that. That’s not how I perceive it, but I don’t see why it couldn’t be understood in that way.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: It reminds me a little bit of—I don’t know if you’re old enough—do you remember Bewitched?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah, I loved Bewitched.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay. So it kind of reminds me of that because Samantha, something would happen, maybe her grandmother or mother or whoever it was that was kind of meddlesome would do something to Darren. Then they’d have to stop and like undo it and fix things. You know what I mean? It kind of reminds me of that sort of scenario.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah. That was one of my favorite shows.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, big surprise. You just did it. That was pretty good actually, a little wiggle of the nose. So from that place as a human I can understand how that would take place. Something happened, but now with time stopped, at least physical time stopped, things are happening in the background to make them right, whatever that is.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: So moving forward, you’re in the Healing Environment. This is the beginning. You’re first aware of the Healing Environment. I’m going to kind of go back and forth a little bit here. Whereas in the first environment there were thousands of beings and the Rest Environment, I don’t even remember how many beings there were.

Natalie Sudman: Just one or two.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah. Then in this environment, how many beings do we have, any?

Natalie Sudman: There are two.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: There are two beings with you.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I ask like I don’t know.

Natalie Sudman: Didn’t you read my book?

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: That’s right. That’s right. So tell us about these beings. What are they like?

Natalie Sudman: One of them was very, very familiar like an old, old friend, that real deep feeling of connection and familiarity. The other one seemed sort of almost like a trainee or something. We were friendly with this other being, but it wasn’t like we were old, old friends or something. That one was kind of almost observing us, while this good friend and I were really messing around a lot.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: You were?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Now when you say good friend, in the last interview I was asking some questions of you, and we sort of came to this conclusion that it’s possible that some of the beings you were with were actually aspects of yourself, other personalities of your whole self, again what I would call your soul, so other personalities of that. What about these two beings? Any possibility that they’re other aspects of your whole self, or are they separate beings?

Natalie Sudman: I think I have a hard time telling that difference. I don’t know that I could tell the difference.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Is that because of the oneness of everything, or—?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah, I mean in that sense, in that we are all one, yeah, they’re a part of me. But there’s almost like layers beneath that, almost like my whole self is also part of a group self or something is what I’ve kind of gotten. In order to describe this experience or these beings I would say I perceive them as other when I was in this experience. When I was in this whole experience of my NDE, it’s like I still always maintained this awareness of being Natalie.

Even though I didn’t have any interest in my body and no interest in the physical world through a lot of it, I still maintained the sense of being one identity, and I didn’t go so far out of my body or so deep into nonphysical that I felt like I was merging with the whole self or a group self. I felt like I was just opening up to a whole self. I mean that’s a weird distinction. I’m not sure I’m describing it well, and it’s not in the book.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah. I want to ask questions that aren’t all in the book, you know what I mean?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: So people who read the book can get a little bit more from these. But I get it. Yeah, you’re opening up to almost larger possibilities.

Natalie Sudman: Larger awareness of who I am.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, from a greater perspective.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: So I’m going to take a little break here. I wanted people to get to know you a little bit in this, people who don’t know you very well, because I want to show your book. I wanted to wait a minute to do that. So here’s your book. Now, two things I’m going to do. I’m going to put this book, and I’m going to let people see it, Application of Impossible Things. People will laugh, but this is so that I can show this on Facebook or whatever. I’m going to put it all new because being our third interview—smile, that’s the picture I’ll take—I don’t want people to look at this and go, oh yeah, I’ve seen that interview. I’ve done that.

But anyways, this book, and I say it every time, but I say it as a positive thing. This is not a big, thick book. This is a thin book, and yet every time I read it I get something new out of it. You could read a big, thick book faster than you will read this one. The reason that I waited is now that you audience people who just met Natalie Sudman here, now you get the sense of depth. She’s the same way in the book, if not even more so, than she is right here. So now you get that.

A lot of this information is in this book, but you could certainly miss it. It’s one of those things that certainly takes a few reads, and you just keep gathering more and more insight from it as a result. But that’s the kind of writing you do. I was reading through your blog recently, same kind of stuff, amazing depth. I just love it. This is mind-blowing stuff. It’s just boom, boom, all this mind-blowing stuff.

So you’re with these other two beings. You talked a little bit about them. What are you like? You write in the book about your form. I’m not sure you remember, but you were talking about what you personally are like in this energetic spiritual state versus physical form. How can you describe that to us right now? That’s the first question. Then I’m going to ask, how was your form in the Healing Environment different than your form in the other two environments?

Natalie Sudman: Okay. The Healing Environment felt like it was a lot closer to the vibration of the physical world, so it was like a lower vibration. I felt like I had form, and my form when I look back it’s like, okay, I was pretty much this form, this Natalie, but I wasn’t really physical. I just had that shape while being energy. That’s different because in the Rest Environment I didn’t have any form. I didn’t have any form at all. I was just awareness or just consciousness. It doesn’t mean that I was totally dissipated. I was still a something, but I wasn’t a form.

The Blink Environment, it’s like you could take on any form you wanted to there. I mean it was a little farther from physical world, and so you could take on form if you wanted to; but you didn’t’ have to have a form.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay. What’s interesting to me about that, the last one, the Blink Environment, is that the way you saw other beings, you kind of saw them more as humans with these white robes on and stuff.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Why would you have seen them that way? Was it because maybe you were just blinked over from physical?

Natalie Sudman: I think so. I think it was just a lot more comfortable. It was a very comfortable way for me to perceive them. I talk about playing around with turning them into little monsters and stuff, and I could do that. I mean I could see them that way, and I think that seeing them just as human in white robes was just a very comfortable way that wouldn’t sort of distract my human mind.

It’s like when I blinked out it takes so much focus to stay in this physical awareness and in this physical body that it’s like standing in a doorway and pushing your arms out really hard for a minute. Then you step out and your arms just go straight up because your muscles have been holding that so tightly. So that’s how I think of the jump from the physical. You’ve still got that tension of holding yourself in this focus, and then you go into somewhere like the Blink Environment and it takes a while to sort of undo that tension.

So seeing and perceiving from that awareness that’s kind of in between, it could be really distracting to be looking at bugs or something instead of looking at people in white robes.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, yeah. So we’ve got blink, we’ve got rest. Back in the Healing Environment you also talk about your form as being like age 30, 35. Now here’s what’s interesting about it. Sylvia Browne years and years ago wrote a book, and she said everybody in spirit is 30 years old. I was like, aw, come one. She wrote some great books, but she sort of had this tendency to sort of make these sort of absolute statements. You know what I mean?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: In my investigation I actually understand what she means now, but it’s not quite so absolute. It’s not so cut and dry. But it was so funny that in your book you sort of talk about the same thing. We’re not speaking for her, but explain what you meant when you said that you kind of recognized your form as being around the age of 30.

Natalie Sudman: It’s like there’s sort of an ideal form or a form that’s the easiest to hold of this Natalie in an energetic state. That form will be the one that’s most balanced, most harmonious. So in other words, it’s not growing. It’s not 15 years old and growing. It’s not decaying, so it’s not 95 years old and decaying. It’s sort of in a very stable, balanced place. So if I liken that to the physical body in the physical world, it kind of sits right there in 30 to 35 for me.

For somebody else it might be between 25 and 30 or 35 and 40. I don’t know. But for me it really felt like I was just right in there, 30, 35, almost effortless. It took no effort to hold that. Nothing was shifting around in there. Yeah, it was very stable and very easy, like a default setting almost.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah. This is what I’ve found in my investigation of people in spirit is this is very, very common. I mean if they lived long enough, then this is sort of the age. My father came to me in an experience that I had, and it was one of the few experiences where I really was able to experience it. I talk about it in my interview with Michelle Skaletski-Boyd.

What was interesting, he died when he was 64, but he showed himself to me around the age of 30. I just knew. Even just from pictures when he was younger, that was around the age that he was, 30, 35, in his 30s. I recognized in this experience with him that that was when he felt the most vibrant. But I should also say that Afterlife TV does not necessarily agree with the statements about 95 year olds decaying.

Natalie Sudman: No, no, because as a soul, honestly, we don’t decay.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I was kidding. But yes, that’s right. There is no decaying. There’s just a beginning, a middle, and an end. So what are you doing in this Healing Environment with these other beings? Tell us a little bit more about what you’re doing while you’re there.

Natalie Sudman: From this environment it’s like I can see the whole scene of the blown up truck and everything going on down there and my body in that truck. I can see the injuries that I left this body with. So what we’re doing is we’re changing those.

This really good friend of mine with me here, we’re actually fooling around a lot. We’re like, okay, let’s lop off her right arm, and then we’d immediately see this whole lifetime of me with all the details; I’m trying to do everything with my left hand, and we thought that was hilarious. We’re falling down laughing. Or okay, let’s fix her head but let’s leave her with some brain damage so she can’t talk, and that’s funny to us in that environment. It’s not funny here, but it was hilarious from there.

We were choosing different possibilities and immediately seeing where those would lead, what kinds of experiences those injuries would offer, and how fun. It was very revealing and still continues to be revealing to me that I can go to that place and I can perceive my troubles and my difficulties through the healing process with a sense of humor. I mean it’s all hilarious. It’s all nothing to my whole self awareness.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Why is that? We’re skipping ahead here, but this is a perfect place to really ask that question. Hold on. Let me see how I was going to word that. The question as I have it written: You compared “the awareness of your whole self perspective” regarding our physical world phenomena to watching a movie today that was filmed in the 1950s. Do you remember that analogy you made about the dinosaur movie filmed in the ’50s?

Natalie Sudman: Yes.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I thought it was brilliant because it really kind of helps us get a sense of what the whole self perspective would be or whatever, any being in this spiritual place looking at human life with great humor and, like you said, laughter. For those who can’t understand it, because I’ve been there, why is it so funny to these spiritual beings?

Natalie Sudman: Because whatever we experience in the physical is so small, is so minor. I mean it’s important, but it doesn’t last forever. It’s perceived as a blink. So what to us when we’re in our physical perspective can just be horrifying and endless and excruciating, even then once we’re out of our bodies and can see it from a larger perspective, we perceive how insignificant that was and yet how significant whatever we learned through doing that is.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah. There’s an archaic quality to it. So you were talking about the dinosaur movie from the ’50s. We watch that film now and we laugh because of the special effects. So that’s funny to us now, but we can still appreciate the movie. Yet we just have to look at it from, oh wow, look how cute that is, right?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Isn’t that kind of the sense? That’s the sense I got from your book that that was sort of the perspective you were giving, oh, how cute these human beings are.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. In the ’50s when people watched those dinosaur movies, I mean they were kind of made as a little bit of a horror movie, and I’m sure that they were wow, ooh. Then we watch them now and we’re like, isn’t that cute; aren’t those special effects cute, and aren’t the dinosaurs cute, and isn’t it funny that people used to think that that was the epitome of technology and the epitome of portraying these scary things. Now it’s like aw, it’s just adorable. I mean it’s not an exact analogy, but it is an analogy. Once you get into a larger perspective, an expanded awareness, you’re going to look back on your life in a totally different way: Aw, that’s so cute. Ah, so sorry that you suffered. God, that was fun, wasn’t it?

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. I haven’t been there, but one of the greatest analogies I heard years and years ago—I have no idea where I heard it from or who—was that the perspective is similar to what parents might have of their young daughter whose doll’s arm had broken off. To the daughter this is a horrible thing, like oh my goodness, the world has gone upside down. The arm of my doll has fallen off. From the parents, they’re just like, she’s going to be okay. She’ll be all right.

Natalie Sudman: It’s just a doll.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, it’s just a doll. It’s just a human life.

Natalie Sudman: It’s just one of your human lives.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, that’s right, one of them. A lot of people ask how many, and I don’t know that anybody knows. But I get the sense we’re talking thousands anyways, right? I mean we’re talking a lot of lifetimes. What do you think?

Natalie Sudman: I would think so. I mean it’s as many as you want because how are you going to count that? Are you going to count that through all the probabilities? Are you going to include that, or are you just going to include this conscious awareness of being this identity? People talk about old souls: Oh, they’ve been here a lot of times.

It’s entirely possible that someone who’s very adept and sort of savvy about being here has only been here once or twice. They just maybe did some homework beforehand or I don’t know what, but in a way that doesn’t make sense. All time happening at once too, you’re doing those hundreds or thousands of lifetimes right now. They’re all informing your life, and your life is informing and changing and shifting theirs.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Right. It’s interesting when you talk about the probabilities, which you brought up earlier in the interview. There’s really no number. I mean when you talk about all the possibilities, probabilities, it’s just like now we’re talking a big, big, big number.

Natalie Sudman: Infinity.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: The other thing you mentioned was that you and this friend, does she have a—why’d I assume it was a she? This friend, did it have a name?

Natalie Sudman: No, I never paid any attention to any names.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay. We didn’t get into the details. Anyways, you were talking about trying different things on and seeing the possibilities. Interesting, my wife Melissa just had a life between lives regression. In the spirit world portion of this she was there with another being testing in a very similar way, testing different possibilities.

What if we did this life together? Let’s see what that is like. Then they could sort of see how that would all play out, again, maybe the many possibilities or maybe just one possibility. They were playing around like that was fun to two spirits. Lets’ try this on. You be the friend, and I’ll be the enemy. Let’s try that one on.

We get into a little surface stuff, and we’ll jump back into some stuff with depth. You write about “the primary awareness of the inherent relatedness of all consciousness.” This is why I take so darn long to read this book. “The primary awareness of the inherent relatedness of all consciousness,” can you dumb that down for me a little bit, what that means?

If you don’t recall, the next question is going to be, what is the oversight that humans typically make that sets up separation and competition versus a likeness and cooperation? So that sentence leads into that subject. Do you remember that sentence?

Natalie Sudman: I do remember that sentence.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay, good.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah, and it makes perfect sense.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I’ll bet it does.

Natalie Sudman: The primary awareness would be like if you strip away all your judgments and all the sort of human mind ways that we judge ourselves, that we judge others, that we separate ourselves from others. If you strip all the beliefs away, then you’re left with the pure essence. When you are in that pure essence, you can’t help but understand that everything is conscious and you are connected. You’re all interconnected with everything that exists.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay. So I’ll repeat it for the audience, “the primary awareness of the inherent relatedness of all consciousness.” Now it actually sounds like a sentence to me.

Natalie Sudman: Okay, good.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Now that you’ve described that, I knew there was something good in there. So that brings us to the next thing then. What is the oversight humans typically make that sets up separation and competition versus a likeness and cooperation? What’s the oversight humans typically make?

Natalie Sudman: We miss that primary. We take that primary interrelatedness, and we’re stacking all these beliefs on it. It’s not that that’s wrong either. I mean that’s part of the fun of coming to earth is participating in the belief systems.

When you write a movie you have an idea that this movie is kind of centered around or what it’s going to illustrate or explore. In the same way it’s not just individual conscious beings coming into this world and having our experience. We do have that, but the collective consciousness of everyone who is conscious and living right now, that is also a form of consciousness. That also has a direction and an intention.

So it’s not wrong to have all these beliefs sort of layered on top of the primary knowing that we’re all connected. It’s another exploration, but that believing that we’re separate is an exploration. Maybe we’re coming to the end of that exploration, and now what happens as a collective consciousness if we say well, maybe we’ve taken that as far as it can go; what happens if we infuse again that primary consciousness that everything is interconnected? Or it may be that that kind of a flow will always happen because our source, the great mysterious all of everything, maybe that oneness is always going to bring our exploration—

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Uh-oh. Start again, is going to bring our exploration where because the video froze for a second.

Natalie Sudman: Okay. It may be that no matter what we explore, no matter what lines we take out and explore, all of those may always end up leading us back to that primary oneness because that is the prime. That’s our source.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay. So we dealt with this before. Before we started recording the interview, the video’s off a little bit. Are you back now? You might be back now. So I know that it’s going to go away. Anyways, the question that comes to my mind is: Does this belief in separation create fear, or is it fear that creates the belief in separation?

Natalie Sudman: I’m not sure that I can untangle that. I think that fear comes from a belief of separation. It could also come from a contemplation of the possibility of separation because anything you imagine can be. So you might say, well, I can imagine being separated.

Now that you’ve imagined that as a possibility and you understand that because you’ve imagined it as a possibility, it could turn into a probability—oh no, I don’t want that—you could play that sort of game out, which would freak you out or could. Hopefully, it wouldn’t because it’s all good.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: That’s it. That’s why we do these videos is to open people’s minds up to these other possibilities. So you’re with these two beings. How do you decide what to heal and what to leave injured? You’re laughing. You’re having a good time making these decisions.

Natalie Sudman: Honestly, I can’t remember most of the specific reasons that I decided to come back. I can’t remember what those were. So when I go to this Healing Environment and understand that I’m back in that environment and I can be there now and I can know what injuries I want, but I can’t access why I want them. I can even see some of the trajectories projected out from the injuries that I chose, but I can’t see all of them. It’s like some things are blanked out.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: So at the time when you made the decision to come back into your physical body, you knew that there was a purpose for that. There was a purpose for you coming back. So the injuries were set up to complete that purpose, correct?

Natalie Sudman: Right.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: But now going back there’s a veil.

Natalie Sudman: I can’t remember what those specifics are.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay. Maybe that’s for a purpose too, right?

Natalie Sudman: Right, yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Did you ever remember? Did you remember soon after or no?

Natalie Sudman: No.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay, perfect. Let’s talk now about your injuries, the injuries that you ended up with once you were back in your body. Let’s talk about those as chosen experiences versus karmar, karma, karmar— I’m a lot calmer than I used to be.

Natalie Sudman: It’s kind of between karma and calmer.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: There’s a big difference, karma, bad luck, or punishment. So let’s talk about that because a lot of people have real issues going, there’s no way I chose this lifetime or these things that happened to me in this lifetime, and if I did I’m really upset with my soul, my whole self. But from your perspective in this experience, everything was a chosen experience, right?

Natalie Sudman: Everything was a chosen experience. All my injuries were chosen, and they were chosen for good reasons. They were chosen with joy. They weren’t chosen as any kind of punishment. They were chosen in order that they would lead me to or support me in creating experiences that I wanted to experience as a whole self that were very, very valuable to me.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I think I brought this up in every video, and I’m going to bring it up again because just what you said, again, I still think it’s so brilliant. You talk about in the book this moment where you’re sort of waking up. You’re half in your body, you’re half not.

You recognize that you might be blind in one eye, and when you do, because you have one foot in one place and one foot in another dimension, you recognize the enthusiasm that your whole self has for this possibility of being blind in one eye because it had never had that experience before. That’s what you’re talking about, right?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah, I was sitting in the truck when that happened, and I thought, oh, what if I’m blind in one eye? I got so excited. I thought, I’ve never been blind in one eye before. This could be really fun.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Which just goes to what you just said; I mean really people keep talking about the purpose of life, the meaning of life. It’s just about experience. As far as the soul is concerned, it’s just about having experiences, right?

Natalie Sudman: Yes. It doesn’t matter if we as little puny personalities seeing this much of what’s really going on, it doesn’t matter if we think it’s bad or not. Our whole self knows it’s good and knows what the value is and is thrilled with the experience.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I think your story here is a perfect example of that. But now Natalie Sudman the physical being ended up with some injuries I’m sure you’re not pleased with.

Natalie Sudman: I am not always entirely happy with the choices that I made.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yes, exactly. So again, even though you’ve had this experience, you have great compassion not only for yourself as a human being but other human beings for what they and we’re all going through.

Natalie Sudman: Oh yeah. When we’re in this focus, things can be just excruciating. They can be awful, awful, and seem like they will never end. So the only way to understand that kind of sense of humor and that joy is to be able to access that expanded consciousness or to even be willing to entertain the notion that it could be real. I mean that alone, just being willing to open your mind, that could be the little gateway that allows you to suddenly have this knowing or understanding.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah. So I’ve heard a lot from our audience, and not everybody obviously because we’re all at different stages and none of them are good or bad or indifferent. But there’s a lot of people who have heard this idear—there I go again, idear, one of my audience members mentioned that I say “idear,” just like the other word that I said, “karmar”—this idea that everything is an experience and that our whole self, our soul, is just excited about all these experiences, and they get that.

They said that they found some peace and comfort in that. It helped them in one way. So not everybody’s there yet, but I think that’s what this is all about as far as telling people about these experiences. Why do you suppose it makes us feel that sense of inner peace to know the bigger perspective?

Natalie Sudman: I think certainly from a human mind point of view it would be sort of depressing and really dispiriting to think that I was suffering for nothing.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, without purpose, definitely.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah, without any kind of purpose. It’s just random. You just got blown up, and now you’re going to suffer. There isn’t any meaning. There’s no point to it. It was just random. It would be very, very dispiriting, very disheartening, and very hard to handle. But I ought to say that from my experience nobody experiences that kind of suffering, nobody. There’s always a reason, and it’s always a beautiful reason from my experience.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, again, these are human terms, but the knowledge, the experiential gain that we get as whole selves, first of all, lasts for an eternity, right?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Just lasts for an eternity, and I think leaves us if we have future lives or other lives to have more compassion for other people, we’ll say, who have had those experiences. I’m sure that you’ve helped a lot of people, a lot of soldiers, for instance, who have had similar experiences to yours because they can relate.

Natalie Sudman: I hope so.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, you hope. I know. I’m sure of it, but because they can relate to your experience. So the same thing, now your soul knows that experience. So to have other lifetimes, that doesn’t get taken away.

Natalie Sudman: No, you bring that experience into anything that you do.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, I love that. At this point, and there’s some stuff here, I’m going to get through it. We only have a few minutes more, but I’m going to get through it without rushing through it. In the book you write you’re going to pop back into my body. You’re going to pop back in. You’ve healed it. You’ve healed it at least to the degree that you’ve decided these are the injuries that I’m going to have.

But before you do it you sort of go to this sort of in between. You don’t even have a name for this other environment, but you do call it another environment in the book. You’re in sort of this in-between railway station kind of a place. When you’re there—this is just before you pop into your body—you actually meet some other beings. Do you recall that?

Natalie Sudman: I do remember that.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: All right, good. How many beings were there?

Natalie Sudman: Nine.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Hey, all right, you know your own story. I was fascinated by these beings because you describe these beings; like you talked about the Healing Environment, it’s almost like each environment was a little closer to the physical. This environment was real, real close to the physical, and these beings you describe as sort of spirit guides. You even call them general contractors. Explain that.

Natalie Sudman: Personal security guards.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Personal security guards. So explain what these are.

Natalie Sudman: It’s almost like I felt like I was in between moments, in between time and space, but within that scene of the blown up truck and us there and everything. In this space I was with these nine beings. The way I perceived them matches what other people seem to call guardian angels or guardian spirits or whatever you want to call them.

To me I perceived them as friends. They were my buddies who were staying on that side so they could have a really big view of things. They could maintain that wider awareness, and they’re there to help me, to keep me safe, to help guide me into experiences that as a whole self I wanted. It’s almost like my behind-the-scenes prop people. It was my team.

I talked about how my PSD team in Iraq, if I was going outside the wire, they would gather intel. They would plan the route. They would drive. They would keep me safe on the drive, all that kind of stuff. So these guardians of mine on this level felt sort of like my PSD team to me, my personal security team.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, personal security. I love that. It was a great analogy in the book, and it made perfect sense to me. You explain that they act in support of human intentions, not their own.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: What do you mean by that?

Natalie Sudman: They still are individuals having their individual experience. So it seemed like to me when I started writing about them, I thought, well, if they’re having their individual experience, then can they mess with me for their own amusement?

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah, that’s right.

Natalie Sudman: But then I really got the sense that they wouldn’t do that, that it’s almost like a mission, and their mission is entirely and fully to support me in whatever I’m doing as a whole self focused into this personality.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I got the sense that it was even a step further, if you can call it that; not just your whole self’s intentions, but because we have free will, if your human intentions aren’t necessarily aligned with why the whole self came into this lifetime that they would also help you with that. Is that true?

Natalie Sudman: Yes, that’s my sense of it.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: How would they know, just because they can read your thoughts, that sort of thing?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah. People talk about telepathy, or like I was downloading in the Blink Environment, it was all through thought. But it’s not even really thought because it’s instantaneous. We don’t really have a word for it.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: In the same way that you know the way you feel about something, your personal security team here knew how you felt about it.

Natalie Sudman: Yes.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: It doesn’t need to be communicated. Is that what you’re saying?

Natalie Sudman: It is communicated, maybe in the way that in physics they’re finding that if something happens to a particle over here, this particle responds instantaneously. There’s no gap of time. It’s that kind of a thing.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: That’s cool. It makes me wonder though, what if we send mixed messages to the universe. We’re like saying I want to be rich, and then we have this afterthought, oh, I’ll never be rich. I want to be rich. Oh, I’ll never be rich.

Natalie Sudman: I’ve thought about that, and what it seems to me is that whichever one has the most emotional power behind it. Emotion really gives force to our thoughts. So if you’re infusing, oh, I wish I was rich, but then there’s this other, oh, I don’t want to be rich and all this sort of fear and emotion packed into that, then that’s going to hold that back from manifesting. I could be wrong. That’s just my understanding of it right now.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: It makes perfect sense to me. At one point when you jumped back into your body, I mean, how does that work?

Natalie Sudman: I like that picture. Again, it’s movement through thought. I mean I have the intention to go back in my body and snap, I’m back in my body. It’s that fast.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: We do not have the time to do it now, but I will tell you that the last chapter talks about once you are back in your body. I think we could do another whole interview on that alone. I’ll show it again for those who haven’t seen it yet. There you are. You were getting an award there, a medal. What was that?

Natalie Sudman: That was just a visit.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Oh, that was a visit.

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: But you did receive an honor of some sort.

Natalie Sudman: I did. I got the Freedom of—what’s it called? It says on the back, doesn’t it?

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I think so.

Natalie Sudman: I’m very bad at remembering names of medals, but it’s the civilian equivalent of the Purple Heart award.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: That’s right, which is quite an honor.

Natalie Sudman: It is.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: It’s been an honor to interview you about these things and ask these questions. In all these experiences—why don’t we just leave people with this—how has this experience changed you as a human being now that you’ve had this much time? This happened in what year?

Natalie Sudman: 2007.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Okay. So how has this experience changed you in these six years?

Natalie Sudman: It’s certainly made my rehab a lot easier. Knowing that I had chosen these injuries and knowing that they had meaning made that whole thing a lot easier. Even now my life isn’t perfect just because I had these amazing experiences.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Right.

Natalie Sudman: My life is probably just as screwy as anybody else’s is. I can’t just say, well, I want to be rich and I want perfect things to happen and this is going to happen, that’s going to happen.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: And they do.

Natalie Sudman: It still doesn’t happen.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: No, right. That’s right.

Natalie Sudman: But now I think I can apply a sense of humor to that, and I understand that even if that doesn’t happen, whatever is happening has its own value and can be fun if I let it be fun.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: You’ve always had an intuitive/psychic ability, correct?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Did it strengthen after this experience, or was it the same?

Natalie Sudman: I don’t really know. I would say that it certainly gave me more confidence in it, and in gaining more confidence, then I started practicing using it more in very specific ways like giving readings and things like that. So the more I use it, the even more confident or comfortable I get with it and I think the better I get with it. But I couldn’t really say whether this experience did that for me. I don’t know.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Yeah. It gave you more insight certainly. Did you ever give readings before this experience?

Natalie Sudman: I did. Yeah, it certainly gave me a deeper pool to draw from.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: I’m going to tell the audience I had an experience with Natalie just like a week ago. Look, I’m not sure this experience is for everybody because if you’re a skeptic and you’re looking for evidence, the kind of reading that I had at least, it’s not an evidence based reading.

If you are looking to find out what your soul is all about, if you want to recognize why you came here as a whole self and to recognize that sort of signature personality of yourself that carries over from lifetime to lifetime and what you’re doing here and how it’s affecting you and some mind-blowing stuff that you sort of knew subconsciously about yourself but until Natalie tells you it wasn’t a conscious thing; then all of the sudden she brings this thing up, and you go, oh, that makes sense; now I get it. In that way it was evidential.

I’ve got to tell you, one of the best readings of my lifetime. I loved this experience because, number one, it was so different, and I love how you start it off. I’m just going to tell the audience this because I won’t go on and on about it. I had my reading and then I think it was that same night I was emailing you going, Melissa, my wife, has got to get a reading with you. It was that good; her reading equally, same thing.

One of the things, do you always start off talking about their name and what their name means from an energetic sort of soul place?

Natalie Sudman: No, not always.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: No, okay. You did it for me and Melissa, so cool. I don’t know. Unless I write an article about it, I can’t explain it to the audience. But look, if you love these interviews with her, I think you’ll love getting a reading with her. If you don’t, then don’t get a reading with her. It has that depth, but it’s so exciting and it made me feel good about who I am, made Melissa feel good about who she is. What better compliment can you ask to have an experience like that.

But it wasn’t like you telling me stuff about my life that I already knew and just going, oh, that’s really cool; she doesn’t really know me, but she knew these things. It’s not that. It’s telling me things that I really didn’t know about my life or I only knew on a subconscious level, bringing it to my consciousness, it resonating with me completely, and who knows where it will go from there.

Enough about that. Natalie Sudman, thank you so much.

Natalie Sudman: Thank you, Bob. It’s always a pleasure to come and talk with you.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Maybe in the future we could just do another interview and we’ll just talk about fate versus free will. I wanted to talk about how different people experience the same thing but it’s different for each one of them. That would be a good interview just right there, right?

Natalie Sudman: Yeah.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: That would start things off. So anyways, I really appreciate everything. I’m grateful to you in so many ways, and I know that our audience is going to love this. Thanks again.

Natalie Sudman: Thank you.

Bob Olson, Afterlife TV: Bye now.

Natalie Sudman: Bye-bye.





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