War on Illegal Guns, Fought on Two Fronts

Against a backdrop of recent shootings of innocent bystanders, including a 13-year-old boy from Queens and a 15-year-old girl from the Bronx, city officials and activists each did their part on Monday in their fight against gun violence, albeit in different ways and at different venues.

At City Hall, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and other city officials announced the takedown of an illegal gun sales operation in Brooklyn, while the Rev. Al Sharpton’s National Action Network gathered supporters for a “day of outrage” in cities across the country.

Mayor Bloomberg blamed “extremists in the pro-gun movement” for lax gun laws, and said, “We have to come together as a society and say we’re not going to take it anymore.”

The mayor’s words were the latest response to the Nov. 16 shooting of Vada Vasquez, 15, who was struck in the head by a stray bullet as she walked to school, the apparent victim of a revenge shooting between young men she did not know.

The police have charged a 16-year-old boy, Carvett Gentles, with the shooting. The .40-caliber pistol they said he used has not been found.

In the Brooklyn case announced on Monday, Mr. Bloomberg, joined by the Brooklyn district attorney, Charles J. Hynes, and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly, said that for three months this summer, two men sold dozens of guns to undercover officers from an apartment in East New York. Officials said the guns, most of them purchased at pawn shops and gun shows in Florida, and brought by car to New York, were worth more than $40,000.

Mr. Kelly called one of the men, Ryan Woodard, 22, “a full service dealer,” who sold guns at a huge markup, including some that were loaded and ready to fire. Mr. Woodard and another man, Watson Joachin, 27, sold 40 guns to undercover officers, the authorities said.

Mr. Hynes called for stiffer penalties against those charged with selling or possessing firearms that have been transported from out of state, suggesting that they should receive 25 years in prison, rather than 15 years.

Mr. Bloomberg, fielding questions about the prospect of terrorism trials in New York, dismissed the idea that such trials posed a security threat.

“Guns on the street,” he said, “ is our No. 1 security issue.”

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I’m glad Mr. Bloomberg has such a strong stance on gun control and the ability to speak out against the problems we are faceing. Our city is flooded with guns thanks to gangs of wanna be thugs and gangs of lobbyists who dont see a problem with other people getting hurt and killed just so they can stay in business. In a city like ours we have alot of problems but I totally agree that guns on the street is the top problem we face. The fact that people are being gunned down every year for no other reason than just bad luck undermines everything this city stands for and our government is supposed to provide. The sooner these guns are off the street the better.

If the politicians think that passing laws that restrict or prohibit law-abiding citizens from being able to purchase firearms will do anything to stem the flow of illegal weapons into the hands of crimminals, they are only fooling themselves. Crimminals don’t get their guns from sporting goods stores or gun shops. They get them from other crimminals that specalize in guns. Look at Chicago’s record for keeping guns off the streets. It is one of the deadliest cities in the country and no one can legally own a gun there. You may as well try to outlaw 2×4 lumber as that could be a weapon as well.
You gun control nuts never look at the root of the problem. The root problem is not guns, it is the crimminals that carry them. You would probably also want to outlaw cameras to solve the pornography problem.

Allowing the free flow of guns is one way the right wing red areas of America engages in war with left wing cities.

As if making it harder to buy a gun would be such a problem… give me a break.

Mr. Bloomberg wants to make more laws to fight illegal guns?

Perhaps if a law was passed outlawing crime, it wouldn’t be such a problem.

Guns are not the problem. Take a any gun, load it, cock it and leave it on the desk. Go away for a 100 years. It will still be waiting when you come back. It will not have moved.

Over the last 50 years I have handled dozens of guns of various kinds and fired hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition. I have never injured anyone. There are millions of people like me in those regards.

Mix in a criminal, however, and you have a problem. Crime on the streets does not come from lack of gun control. It arises from the lack of criminal control. Oh, by the way, criminals in the U.K. and Australia, both of whom are surrounded by substantial water barriers, are still getting and using guns. It is only the law abiding citizens who are standing there empty handed.

Three events – 1 Maersk Alabama 2008 – no guns on board, 1 captain and 3 pirates in a life boat for 5 days, ends with 3 dead pirates.

1 Maersk Alabama 2009 – private security on board, not stopped, no dead or injured crew, no dead pirates.

1 80 years old man picking up aluminum cans, 6 teen ages boys with boots and shoes. The end result 1 dead man stomped to death and 6 teenagers in jail.

1 teenager buying ice cream for his girlfriend, 5 teenagers looking for a fight with a baseball bat. End result, with speed, luck, and good tactics the ice cream guy ends up with badly bruised ribs, a new ball bat and perps leave with their windshield intact.
The cops say you can not hurt anyone with a ball bat.

1 7-11 clerk 1 guy stealing a six pack armed with a baseball bat. Result 1 dead 7-11 clerk, 3 children and 1 husband whose, mother/wife will not be home.

1 old codger and his codgerette at home with 1 45 ACP pistol. 2 young thugs looking for cash – End result 1 codger and codgerette holding thugs for the cops who did not think a codger could cause them that much trouble.

Moral – guns in the right hands prevent crime. Criminals loose on the street cause crime. Control criminals and give the law abiding citizens guns. to make sure they stay there.

Take (a) any cocaine, cut it, and leave it on the desk. Go away for a 100 years. It will still be waiting when you come back. It will not have moved.

Let’s legalise that too shall we?

Crim(m)inals will always get their hands on prohibited substances/items, it’s how many kids and would be crim(m)inals turn into real crim(m)inals due to ease of access is the issue.

Crim(m)inals don’t get their guns from sporting goods stores or gun shops. They get them from other crim(m)inals that specalize in stealing guns from people who are too easily legally allowed to buy them from sporting goods stores or gun shops. Ease of access.

Yes U.K and Australia have crime too, and yes some crimnals find access to guns regardless of their gun control laws, however gun crime among ordinary people (as opposed to amongst crimnal groups) is extremely rare and innocent bystanders are almost unheard of.

The one thing for which I have always given Mr. Bloomberg credit is his gun control stance. Let’s hope that during his third term he will put as much time, effort and money into fighting the NRA as he put into getting reelected.

This past weekend in my hometown of Chantilly, VA they had The Nations Gun Show. Hundreds of guns changed hands not two miles from my house. My biggest worry was the traffic.

NYC has gun laws, but few people are ever prosecuted for violating them. In the words of Casey Stengel, “You could look it up.”

Could someone at the Times compare gun arrests to gun prosecutions? You might be shocked.

The wind is NOT blowing in Mr. Bloomberg’s direction. He can demonize the NRA all he wants, but the liklihood is great that, sooner or later, firearms legally in the hands of NYC residents, without onerous requirements for ownership, will help to reduce the city’s crime rate.

As others have said, we don’t demonize other objects–why firearms for personal protection? Why is the outrage at criminal behavior directed at firearms and not at the wrongdoer?

I don’t get it.

So, yet again, Mayor Bloomberg puts lives at risk in multiple states by having NYPD ordering straw purchases in other states to be brought to New York for a big photo op.
What ever happened to the “Operation Tripod” gang?
That was over 100 guns ordered by NYPD broudht to new York from Ohio.
Again, NYPD paying about $1,000.00 for guns not worth $ 200.00.

I’m sure the “Operation Tripod” gang are home in Columbus , OH just as these men will be home safe in a few months. Their lawyer will realize it was entrapment at worst plus the NYPD causing illegal interstate transport of guns. About three days after their lawyer tells the Brooklyn DA he wants NYPD officers, Chief Kelly and Bloombrg to testify in open court they will be gone.

This is unconscionable on the part of the Mayor and the NYPD brass. They put undercover street cops in mortal danger with every buy. They let these guys known to be committing felonies while carrying deadly weapons roam free in New York City for 3 months in this case and for about a year with the Ohio group.

Worse they send them hundreds of miles away to buy guns and bring them to New York crossing many state lines. If the Mayor wanted to lock up bad guys as he should, NYPD could have arrested these people for the first gun. Now they won’t serve as much time as the hapless Plaxico Burress.

James, you ignored the 7-11 Clerk who was killed with ball bat. You ignored the old can collector who was stomped to death for the fun of it. You ignored the elderly gentlemen and his wife who placed dangerous criminals in the hands of the police because old people were armed. You ignore the fact that tens of thousands crime are prevented each year when a law abiding citizen has a gun handy to address the threat. Usually with no shots fired.

James, a thug standing 20 feet away holding a club can get to you and seriously injure or kill you in 2 to 3 seconds. Police discovered that when they wondered why so many club or knife wielding perpetrators were killing armed policemen.

Violent crime has increased in both the U.K. and Australia since guns were taken away from law abiding citizens. Even gun crime has increased.

A club wielding thug can put you on the ground in less than 5 seconds. Do you think 911 will have answered the phone yet? Then, in a good town, the police are still 20 minutes away. Do you think they are going to protect you from the thugs?

State and Federal courts recognize that police can not protect any given citizen. They have denied case after case seeking damages for failure to do protect someone. Police and Game Wardens in Africa share a responsibility. They keep the predator populations low enough that the herd can survive. Individual members of the herd are expendable.

1 armed security team prevented more piracy than a fleet of NATO war ships. When the Marines dug the pirates out of Tripoli, they did not float around off shore. They went to where the pirates lived and used guns, knives, and artillery to persuade the pirates that piracy was no longer profitable enterprise.

In law abiding hands guns prevent crime.

All dogs aren’t vicious pit bulls. Overwhelmingly dogs are loving companions to families and individuals.

All guns are not used for criminal purposes. Overwhelmingly guns are used for sport–hunting and receational shooting–and for personal protection and self defense. (Unfortunately, in our current culture and political environment in NYC, self defense against criminals is itself viewed as aberrant behavior.)

Protect NYC residents from vicious dogs by enforcing exisiting laws without demonizing all canines, which would be ridiculous.

Protect NYC residents by prosecuting vicious criminals by enforcing existing laws without demonizing guns, which is ridiculous.

This is an outrage.
Why aren’t you demonzing the kid who pulled the trigger??
I suppose he’s a “victim” as well.
A firearm is simply a tool. And Bloomy can rant and rave all he wants, but state laws for concealed carry permits are now allowable, to some degree, in 48 states (Wisconsin and Illinois being the exceptions, and of course the five boroughs of NYC.) Quite a change from just 1995.
Therefore, those that USE firearms in the act of a crime should be made examples of, and punished SEVERELY.
Enforce the laws on the books, Bloomy. And then meet me at the gun range for a little relaxation afterwards.

Bloomberg seems to think the path to removing illegal guns from the streets of NY is to find ways to assault the laws of other states. This illusion that criminals are going to gun stores here in VA, engaging in a nice chat with the clerk, filling out the paperwork, then hopping straight on I-95 to make a delivery in the otherwise-peaceful utopia of NY is ridiculous.

Sorry, but we like our freedoms here. I’m a native New Yorker who enjoys my adopted state thanks to mainly lower taxes and better services, but the good gun laws are yet another reason why I won’t be moving back anytime soon. And guess what, despite gun laws that would make most gun-control enthusiasts foam at the mouth, there isn’t a shootout on every corner. Maybe that’s because Bloomberg should make a concerted effort to clean up the garbage in his own city before he worries about laws in others.

The disturbing fetishization of guns by both extremes, the gangs/wannabe thugs and the rabid NRA/2nd Amendment literalists, will be the death of us all. The conversation is constantly hijacked by both groups, and no one in the middle ever asks why are guns such a fetish for these extremists? Masculinity v. emasculation, sexuality, power, etc etc.

Both sides make me sick.

More than just guns there seems to be a new and prevailing sense of lawlessness taking over the city. The mayor (past and present) has cleaned up areas that continue to bring in tourist dollars while allowing our residential neighborhoods to suffer from lack of attention. The trains are becoming scary again. Sellers of illegal and counterfeit goods control large areas where the police seem ineffective at best and uncaring at the worst.

Why would gun violence not thrive in this atmosphere?

The comments by some readers seem to suggest that sensible use of a legally registered firearm is under attack here. These are not instances of self protection as some readers have suggested. These are acts of violence and mayhem committed by criminals, thugs and wanna-be baby gangsters. I can’t believe even the revved-up gun lobby wants firearms in the hands of children and miscreants.

The NRA is in bed with the gun industry. The NRA buys politicians. The NRA spreads incendiary rhetoric designed to scare law abiding gun owners that contain outright falsehoods. Comparing any kind of handgun control to the end of democracy (as if England and Japan are run by dictators, if one was to believe such lies).

No one complains when you have to get an eye test to drive a car. Is there one for owning a hand gun? Glen Beck doesn’t freak out when he renews his license for his car (or maybe he does). But there much shrieking about licenses for hand gun ownership. No one yells at the “liberals” for having to take a road test to get a license to drive a car and yet, and yet…

Gun do not kill people, but they sure make it easy. Boy, would Hasan have killed so many if he had a club? He was packing a very powerful, small caliber (armor piercing, low recoil) hand gun.

What’s wrong is that there is no comprehensive gun laws across the country. Of course, banning guns in New York won’t do squat if some one can buy them in Florida, where having a gun in your pants pocket is legal (but not in your glove compartment). I’m not sure why some gun owners get so hysterical about control (like cars–remember?). Why does talk about gun legislation automatically equal a gun ban? Oh yeah, the NRA. They say so, so it must be true.

I grew up in deer, turkey, bear hunting country. People hunt, some people hunt to put meat on the table.

My dad live in cattle country in Florida and I can see why he wants to be armed. You can call 911, but there won’t be anyone coming soon.

I live in NYC and any idiot can get a gun. Mostly due to lousy state laws.

How about this question? Why do the states with the highest execution rates have some of the highest murder rates? So much for fear of punishment.

OK, another question?

Why did the NYC police sell confiscated handguns? That seemed counter productive.

We have to stop being big babies and work together. Abiding by legislation, safety and rules that mimic, perhaps, auto rules, might be a good thing. Being a responsible gun owner might entail being a good neighbor.

guns in the larger sense is not the problem,
Poverty is the problem,
Education is the problem,
Healthcare is the problem.
I bet you’re more likely to get cancer than involved in a gun related death.

Dock Oscar, I’m not disagreeing with your overall desire for responsible gun ownership, but comparing an eye test for a license to drive a car and owning a gun is pretty ignorant. First of all, driving a car is not a fundamental right (like self defense), it’s a privilege. Second, you are driving your 3000 pounds of steel around on public roads, where misuse of it can lead to injury/death of other people. If someone is buying a gun purely for home defense, what threat does that pose you, other than if you plan on breaking into it? Now, if you’re arguing for testing for concealed carry permit holders, you have a point, and most places require proof of knowledge/training before they issue you one (either a safety/handling course, prior military service, etc.)

I wouldn’t necessarily say NYC’s gun laws are lousy, they’re some of the toughest in the nation (right there with CA and NJ). If you want to blame something for being lousy, blame the enforcement and the measures that should be taken to prevent people from being driven to committing these acts. Or I don’t know, blame the people themselves.

The issue of gun control is not a constitutional issue but a cultural one. I have enjoyed hunting. I own guns. I have lived in both urban and rural places. I think I have a perspective of both areas.
Guns are an important part of rural life and an integral part of rural culture. They are used for hunting and self defense in area where law enforcement in perceived to be relatively far away. They are also an important part of rural America’s self image. The fear, and anger, of loosing their firearms, because ‘urban elites’ imposing their will and cultural values on them is strong.
On the other hand, gun violence in urban areas is also real and the fears of urban dwellers is also legitimate. Few people who live in urban areas go hunting. Even fewer if they are poor. Guns as self defense are viewed ambiguously because, more often than not, guns in urban areas are used in domestic violence rather than self protection. Furthermore even if ‘civilians’ have guns for self protection, criminal elements will only escalate the types of weapons they use. It has been noted time and again when one gang uses knifes, the competition gets hand guns, and they move up the chain until criminals are using fully automatic weapons. Because of the density of the population a complete prohibition is one of the few tools that is effective in urban areas. If you have a gun, you are breaking the law and going to jail. You are presumed to be a criminal.
So how do we resolve this cultural clash of cultures. I suggest a return to federalism. Let each local jurisdiction determine the gun policy best suited to it. The effort to enforce a one size fits all (in this case rural/NRA sensibility) gives comfort to the relatively few in the rural districts at the expense of the many.
Finally, I also think that their is an element of racism in the debate. For the most part, those affected by the urban blight of gun crime are poor and minority. The largely white rural America could care less about them. Why should these urban elites impose what they regard as draconian measures on folks who have no part in the crime? But as the story amply illustrates, guns legitimately purchased one place can be sold in another location for great profit.
It is time the death grip of the NRA be broken and a return to reasonable control laws and enforcement at a national level, and where necessary more restrictive laws at a local level be allowed.

PEOPLE, BLOOMBERG’S “gun control” stance is a PUBLIC RELATIONS FRAUD, like most things he does.

(See: his “anonymous” charity donations, which his staff then leaks to the press so the Self-Aggrandizer-King gets the acclaim but looks “altruistic” and unselfish, as if a man who named everything after HIMSELF and puts his name all over PUBLIC property is humble!)

(FUN FACT: he writes off most of his charitable donations on his taxes, so, in fact, YOU TAXPAYERS are actually paying for most of his “charitable” donations! SUCKERS!)

FACT: Bloomberg was the NUMBER ONE funder of REPUBLICANS who promise to keep LAX FEDERAL GUN LAWS across the nation. Not one other person in America DID MORE to keep the status quo of criminals being able to easily buy guns in other states then resell them in NYC.


If he was a mayor in TEXAS, he’d be PRO-guns b/c he’s an opportunist of the worst kind.

He was also ANTI-GAY marriage until he saw it being legalized around America and flip-flopped b/c he saw it as inevitable and he didn’t want to be last to that party.

THE MAN HAS GOTTEN CAUGHT LYING ABOUT ALMOST EVERYTHING HE SAYS, yet the sheep keep falling for his smoke and mirrors.



EX: BAND HANDGUNS but not rifles.

I love the Second Amendment, but it doesn’t guarantee anyone a HANDGUN, so we should outlaw them and their ammo.

Let a criminal sneak a single-shot rifle into school.

WHY isn’t Bloombag promoting this? B/c his plans are FAKE. (Even his “straw purchases” PR stunt was 100% fake, b/c he knows people are bad with details.)

REMEMBER: this is the Mayor who said in 2005 “the city is doing great, so I should be reelected!” and in 2009 said “the city is in really bad shape, so I should be reelected”!

It’s 2009 and y’all STILL think Politicians aren’t liars and frauds?


No wonder nothing ever get fixed.

It is troubling that a middle ground can’t seem to be found for the legal ownership of guns. You can look at the data and the cities with the strictest gun control have higher rates of crime than ones that allow law abiding citizens to responsible own guns. DC doesn’t allow guns and has a high crime rate.

Not allowing law abiding citizens to protect themselves and banning guns to prevent crime is like not allowing sober people to buy cars to prevent drunk driving.

Regulation is necessary for guns, nobody with a criminal record, with domestic violence, mental issues should be allowed to buy a gun (and this is the law now). It would be reasonable to require a license to own a gun, same with driving a car, where people could prove that they know how to use one safely and can keep it secured so that it doesn’t get in the wrong hands. Why do we seem to have extremes, people that want guns only for criminals and the government, and people that want guns to be readily available?

I can’t think of a good argument as to why a law abiding responsible citizen shouldn’t be allowed to protect themselves, and I can’t think of a good reason why a criminal should be allowed to buy a gun, or why you should be able to sell a gun to someone other than a gun store?

As far owning a car, it’s not written in the constitution, but try taking away someone’s right to drive. I think most people would treat owning and driving a car, a right. Weird but go ahead, try it.

Also, owning a gun and being able to use it properly are two different things. Kind of like giving birth and raising children.

Hasan did not buy a gun to defend himself. If being properly armed is a right, what do we feel is the right amount of arms to bear? Hand gun, AKA 47? I could make a bomb and as long as no one tries to mess with me, everyone is OK. Would you be nervous living next to me? What if I got angry, like really angry. At my girlfriend or my kid.

I’m sure many people purchase a handgun for reasons of defense, but many people die from accidents, fits of anger and crime. My stepdad had a handgun and while he was out (I was 5 years old), I stood up on tippy toes and reached for the gun high on a shelf. It fell down on my foot and luckily it did not go off.

As far as laws, I wasn’t referring to NY state laws, but other laws that allow people to easily purchase guns and transport them. They are, at best, inconsistent.

You can blame the people, and I sure do, but that’s like blaming the innocent bystander who gets shot too. She shouldn’t have been there, right? Or the victims of a shooter who then kills themself. Threats aren’t much of a deterrent for some people.

My only real point is that the ease and/or availability of hand guns makes it far too easy to kill, whether by accident or through anger. Looking for ways to keep track and prevent guns falling in the wrongs hands through extra vigilance might be good thing. Perhaps owning a handgun IS a protected right, then all gun owners should prove themselves extra worthy of this right. Why not? Be proud and be the best example of how these guns should be treated and only those worthy can hold their heads up high with the power to take other people’s lives.

Or to quote Homer Simpson, “What? I have to wait 24 hours for a gun? But I’m angry now!”

Once new healthcare legislation passes, insurance companies will find themselves insuring just about everyone.

This will pit them squarely against the NRA, as big insurance will not be wanting to foot the bill for the thousands of inner city gunshot victims there are each year, if they can at all avoid it.

They will use their considerable clout and massively deep pockets to close gun show loopholes in VA, TX, etc., and lean heavily on ATF to enforce existing laws against straw purchases of handguns.

The supply of illegal guns will dry up, much to the dismay of the gun industry and gun lobby. Violent crime will fall, but no legal, law abiding gun owners will be affected.