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Les Bailey is back!

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by stanna, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. stanna

    stanna Welcome New Poster

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    Hi Everyone,

    The "Miraculous" Les Bailey is back (see The Sunday Express 5th September 2010 page 67). DISCUSS!
  2. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    According to the advert, which is promoting his new book - The (new) layman's guide to Foot and Heel Pain @ £3.49


    "Our Senior Consultant, Dr Les Bailey (phd) has specialised in these conditions for over 25 years, pioneering his own successful approach to Orthotic prescription some 15 years ago" .......much cut ......"please visit our website wwwcliniconline.co.uk."

    Clinics across the UK Free no obligation Consultation 100% money back guarantee*

    *Subject to attending free aftercare visits (for the small number of patients needing this service)

    Maybe this thread needs to be moved - (into Biomechanics ??). I'll leave that up to admin .......

  3. mazbaa

    mazbaa Member

    Don't get me started on Les"cure plantarfasciits or Money back...if you can find me"Bailey.
    I work all over the country and every practice I work in at least has two patients who have seen him and have had vodoo doll made of him!!
    These orthotics which he is charging upto $1000 per set (I mean pounds but have no pound sign on my lap top) could be manufactured for under $10. It is disgraceful that he getting away with this.

    Have to go back to work now but could go on all day!!!
  4. Kahuna

    Kahuna Active Member

    I recently had a patient arrive with two pairs of Les's orthotics which he'd paid just over£2000 for. They were simple orthoses, and not casteds.

    The patient actually had a plantar tendon tear, visible on an u/s taken around the time he'd been in for his parish and bell orthotics.

    He never got a refund, but his credit card VISA issuer did eventually provide a refund.
  5. LiamShep

    LiamShep Welcome New Poster

    Hi, Im a new poster here!

    Basically, my father went to see Les Bailey yesterday to help cure seemingly incurable foot pain he has had for many years. He has tried many different doctors and implants that have never worked, so, desperate for a solution, went to see Mr. Bailey. He agreed to purchase some implants for over £2000, with the guarentee that if they didnt work, he'd get his money back. Now, at this time I wasnt aware, so didnt have chance to do any research to see if he was reputable. Today they let me know, and having read earlier threads about Mr. Bailey and his previous company 'Parish and Bell', I am concerned that not only will the implants have no effect, but they will also fail to recoup their money.

    Any advice, or messages to put my mind at ease?
  6. mazbaa

    mazbaa Member

    I could write all night about this but basically Les Bailey is to be avoided at all costs. He will take your money and give you little in return. I practice in Worcestershire and shropshire and have patients coming to me complaining of his services, customer services, products and this so called money back guarentee!! I have been to court with one of my patients helping him get his money back from this struck off ex Osteopath.
    How he can charge £2000 for orthotics that can only be worth at the most £20 is beyond me.
    The money back guarentee only applies after multiple visits to the company for 'adjustments' over a period of 18 months!!!! By then you have given up or the condition has resolved naturally. Also, as anybody knows, the orthotic is only one step in the resolution of a foot complaint. Other things need to be addressed such as reducing inflammation, mobilisation, manipulation, flexiblity, muscular weakness....he doesn't address any of these.
    This guy has set up companies, bankrupted them and then set up somewhere else under a different name but using the same methods of extracting money from the desperate and unaware.
    He says he uses the most acurate diagnostic measurement techniques in the land to manufacture these devices, but like I said in court ..if they were so accurate why does the patient have to come back for multiple orthotic adjustments to get them right!!!
    He is a con man pure and simple.
    Sorry to have gone on but his name just makes my blood boil!!
  7. foot2011

    foot2011 Member

    Hi, what happened with this? Someone I know just paid over £2000 aswell and I did a quick search and found all these threads. It all seems to centre around Parish and Bell. Is Les Bailey himself ok now?
  8. foot2011

    foot2011 Member

    HI, I don't mean to be rude but how do I know if you are not just a competitor who is losing business to Mr Bailey? A member of my family just purchased some inserts, over £2000 as it's the only answer to her foot problems, she has suffered problems for years.
    She now feels terrible as I told her what is being said here. It seems to be aimed at Parish and Bell though?
    If you are a similar specialist to Mr Biley what is your answer to the foot problems, do you also prescribe these authotics and not charge as much?

    You say Mr Baileys authotics are worth £20, what evidence is that based on?
  9. William Fowler

    William Fowler Active Member

    Because the lab that makes them for him charge all of us that much! (actually it more like £50) There is nothing special about his £2000 ones except the sales pitch that is put on them.
  10. foot2011

    foot2011 Member

    ok, so you sell exactly the same authotics for much less then?
  11. foot2011

    foot2011 Member

    I don't want to be rude, just to understand the situation and appreciate your replies.

    Another thing is, he says he is the only one with the 3d scanner which gets the authotics correct. Is this not right? Do you all use similar scanners and basically do exactly what Les is doing but much cheaper?

    If so, if we'd have heard about you and knew about you, I would have advised my family member not to go to Les and pay £2000.
  12. William Fowler

    William Fowler Active Member


    The orthotic lab that they use is used by a lot of others. There are ~20 or so other orthotic labs that also make the same or similar thing in the UK and each of them probably has 50-100 clients (I really guessing here with the numbers). They are very widely available. There is nothing special about the ones that Les Bailey uses.

    It just "breaks ones heart" when you get so many come into the clinic have paid £2000 that they could not afford and have not helped them. Just look at the angry posts from patients who have paid this in the other threads here and on many other forums.
  13. William Fowler

    William Fowler Active Member

    Thats bull****, part of the marketing spin and sales pitch. A lot of people have 3d scanners and there is nothing special about them.

    To make a good custom made orthotic, you need to hold the foot in the desired position and capture that position. That captured position of the foot is sent to the lab. It makes absolutely NO difference if that is a plaster cast or a foam box or a 3d scan. The only advantage of a 3d scan, is that we do not have to clean up the mess of plaster after! It will not lead to a better orthotic being made.
  14. foot2011

    foot2011 Member

    Thanks for your info, I will investigate how I can get the money back.

    Could you PM me your details and if possible a website address of the clinic you operate. You sound like you know what you are talking about and are just the kind of person we need to speak to if we manage to get the money back.

    Also from your post, I get the impression authotics are not the "final" solution to fallen arches and foot problems?
  15. foot2011

    foot2011 Member

    Hi, I found the info below on another thread. The parish and bell claim

    "co-polymer we use, we are assured it is a patented formula made by our American lab" "invented by our Senior Biomechanics consultant and a lab technician" - les bailey?. "not available to any other healthcare organization in the UK"

    I'm trying to find out how true this is and whether now you and other professionals do have access to this? You said before you do supply exactly the same authotics (with flexible centres etc) - this would mean the above statement is untrue or the patent no longer applies?

    Dear Robert,

    Thank you for your email.

    Some of the statements you made have been bought to my attention and I agree
    that certain statements on the website are probably a little outdated.

    Regarding the statement about a method used by the NHS has been explained to
    us on many occasions by various practitioners and patients. However, I now
    agree that it should be highlighted it is one method used.

    With reference to the co-polymer we use, we are assured it is a patented
    formula made by our American lab and certainly a particular model we use was
    invented by our Senior Biomechanics consultant and a lab technician. This
    particular model is not available to any other healthcare organization in
    the UK.

    I am positive we do not claim the 3D lasers are exclusive to our clinic but
    should you have noticed anything I have missed please inform me and I will
    look into this immediately.

    Please be assured the above change will be made including some others I have
    noticed whilst reading through our site. We have never intended to improve
    our image by denigrating yourself or other professionals and can only
    apologize if it has offended you.

    I would appreciate it if you could email me your address and allow me the
    privilege of sending you a letter and the newest edition of our information
    pack when it is reprinted.

    Once again thank you for taking the time to write with your concerns and
    allowing me the opportunity to address them.

    Kind regards
    Samantha Williams
  16. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Its not even close to being true.

    The American lab they used supplies the same sort of device to 100's of their other clients (I am pretty sure they not using that lab anymore). The "co-polymer" is just the type of plastic they used - the patent was for that particular plastic, not the orthotic. It does not matter what plastic you use as long as it holds it shape and lasts a while. Like William said, there is nothing special about the devices from Les Bailey. Its all marketing spin and sadly too many people fell for it, which is exemplified by the extent of anger when people realize.

    I know Les Bailey and clients of his that are happy will try and rationalize this as just sour grapes, so its your choice who to believe.
  17. foot2011

    foot2011 Member

    Thank you for confirming this.
    I am doing some investigation on this and contacting the fraud team at our bank. I think this needs to be nailed.
    A member of my family has just been duped out of £2300 with this marketing spin!
  18. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    I don't think its fraud, he is just using pressure selling techniques and charging a lot of money for the product.

    If I was running a business like that, I would only need to see one patient a day and would be laughing all the way to the bank.

    There was a money back guarantee previously before the backruptcy (which left a lot of angry people as the guarantee was not honored). I do not know if there is a guarantee these days.
  19. foot2011

    foot2011 Member

    yes you're right, it does seem however to be mis-sold, as being unique etc when it isn't. The justification for the high price seems to be untrue.
    Appreciate you confirming the details earlier, I'm looking into this further and will do everything possible to get my family members money back.
  20. LiamShep

    LiamShep Welcome New Poster

    Wait and see at the moment. The orthotics arrived a couple of weeks ago, and we're giving it a few weeks more to see whether or not they make much of a difference. After that, we believe we'll have to go through 1 or 2 'refittings', before, probably, saying they still dont work and asking for our money back.

    A money back guarentee is included, providing you have refittings done first. Whether this will be honoured or not...
  21. foot2011

    foot2011 Member


    Check the back of your order form, it says something along the lines of a minimum of 4 refittings and the money back guarantee is after 2 years.

    His previous company (after parish and bell) Foot Pain Pioneers Ltd was dissolved recently, under 2 years...

    Also the order form says "no right to cancel" but it has no address or company number or anything on it. It doesn't seem that "The Clinic" is a limited company, which is some ways is good as your dealings are direct with him.

    Did you know he also wrote a book on marketing http://www.waterstones.com/watersto...mantha williams/marketing with punch/6295112/
    Snippet from description
    "All this despite vicious competition and severe industry hostility. They achieved this by exhaustively out-marketing their competition until they could no longer 'keep up'."

    I'm not happy about all this, I was not present when the member of my family made the decision and I'm furious they agreed. It seems he may have pushed them to make an on the spot decision.
  22. LiamShep

    LiamShep Welcome New Poster

    Just to say, although the orthotics havent worked thus far, the company have been nothing less than cooperative. They have been brilliant, and had I not come across concerns over Les Bailey, would assume hes doing a first rate job

    Though I should say, the Clinic Online did email my parents within the last couple of weeks, to say Les Bailey has left the company and has nothing to do with the business anymore.

    Watch this space...
  23. foot2011

    foot2011 Member

    We recently discovered that the clinic online was not owned by Les Bailey, it's actually owned by Samantha Wye and her father who are running a legitimate business. She seems to want to offer excellent customer service. It's great to hear they have got rid of Les and his terrible reputation, lets just hope now their orthotics are reduced more in line with the cost elsewhere.

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