Re: Collection to Etteilla followers ; theme JGSS

Sorry for the late reply. I had some things to take care of.

I have two editions of the "Julia Orsini". One is an undated book that also contains black and white images of the cards, an engraving of Mlle. Orsini, etc. The other, in both French and English, is part of the LWB to Dusserre's edition of the Grand Etteilla III, which I only know is "Julia Orsini" because it is very close but not identical to the book. I assume it is later than the book. It seems to be the version that Waite had, judging by his word-lists. Perhaps he did the translation reproduced by Dusserre. Tell me which it is that you need. I can give samples of the different wordings in the two editions if you wish.

Your second post after mine deals with card 61, is about the number symbolism, something I am definitely interested in. Where does this quote from Etteilla come from? I do not recognize it. Also, do we know what keywords were on the original card? The card you have a picture of is an English translation..

In the 3rd Cahier Etteilla writes of card 61, upright (from
Nº. 61. le 3. Religieuse (*16).
*16. Chez les Egyptiens, on ne recevait pour Vestales que celles dont la nature était informe; ce qui était très-rare.

(Nº. 61. the 3. Nun (*16).
*16. The Egyptians received as Vestals only those whose nature was unshaped; that was very rare.)
And reversed:
Nº. 61. le 3. Effet égaré (19)
(19) Effet; papier, bijoux, ne sont point perdus; mais seulement égarés.

(Nº. 61. the 3. Confused appearance [Effet égaré] (19).
(19) Appearance [Effet, literally “effect"]; papers and jewels are by no means lost, but only mislaid.)
"Bewilderment" is an acceptable translation of "Egarement". "Estrangement" is of course not a translation of "Religieuse" but rather of "Eloignment" (a better translation would be "Separation" or "Removal"), the keyword that appears on the 19th century French versions of the card (Grand Etteilla I, II, III). It would seem that "Religieuse", surely referring to a cloistered nun, was too specific.

The versions of the Grand Etteilla I that I have seen invariably have a sunburst on card 1; hence they are by way of D'Odoucet. I do not know if Depaulis's deck has this card, to verify what was on the original card. It is not pictured in Wicked Pack. For the 3 of Swords, the text of Wicked Pack has "Separation" only (p. 94), not bothering with the Reversed. They do not say where they get this, whether from Depaulis's deck or some other source.

My hypothesis about the keywords is that they are related to the Sola-Busca version of the card, the heart stabbed by three swords with a wreath underneath, which in turn is related to 14th-15th century paintings of St. Augustine's vision of the Trinity, which showed three shafts of light directed at Augustine's heart, emanating from a vision, sometimes of three heads, sometimes a vision of Jesus on a cross (thus meeting the Franciscan competition). See my blog post at http://neopythagoreanisminthetrot.blogs ... hrees.html.

I tend to think the keywords are an underground historical product spanning three centuries and have nothing to do with Etteilla's or his followers' feeble ad hoc explanations. However I am willing to give them a try.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests