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Ariane DeVere
6th-Nov-2014 09:39 pm
Mofftiss and Vertue

Further extracts may be added in due course.



MARK: Yes! I really enjoyed that one.
MARK: We already have!

SUE: It was the last day, yeah.
STEVEN: We didn’t understand what was written in the script!
SUE: Two creators, one shot!

STEVEN: Although of course we made him a newspaper proprietor.
UNA: Where is this building [Appledore]?
STEVEN: Yeah, Bob Hope had an extraordinary mansion.
SUE: And a swimming pool that just looked gorgeous.

MARK: He’s repulsive, and it’s everything he stands for.
MARK: ... like in a reptile house.
MARK: Brings a sort of substance to her.
MARK: And it just gives it a sort of richness.

MARK: So let’s talk about casting Lars Mikkelsen.
STEVEN: South London, yeah.
MARK: He sort of learned his English through Monty Python!
SUE: So cool.

MARK: From the master.
SUE: ... ‘They’ve got that wrong’!
UNA: You don’t need one in London, do you?

UNA: I remember when Make-Up cut his hair.
UNA: Poor darling!
MARK: I thought he did it himself deliberately.

STEVEN: Child!
(Once everyone’s in the car)

MARK: And a blue plaque, I hope.

SUE: She hit him quite hard.
STEVEN: ... is truly annoying to her.
SUE: ... trying to get the creases in!
SUE: It’s probably a non-iron shirt!

STEVEN: Hooray – it’s a deduction!
SUE: Oh, bless him!
SUE: It was longer, wasn’t it?
MARK: He misses the obvious.


SUE: She’s not even gone to work yet!
MARK: It just adds texture.
STEVEN: With half of it missing, perversely!

MARK: That’s a great line.
MARK: Who knows what secrets it contains?
MARK: We did talk about ...
STEVEN: You tried to persuade me ...
MARK: ... instead of the laptop ...

UNA: People can’t believe that this room is a studio.

MARK: ... becoming engaged ...
STEVEN: ... becoming engaged.
STEVEN: Yes, Watson immediately accepts it!

MARK: Which was not a good idea.
MARK: Also a great way to hide exposition.
UNA: [Yasmine] was so good.
(Stephen and Mark cackle raucously.)
SUE: The prequel!
(As Sherlock’s smile drops)
STEVEN: Ah, Twitter is not the audience.

STEVEN (as John): All right, okay.
(As Magnussen ‘reads’ Mrs Hudson’s file)
SUE: Semi-reformed!
STEVEN: I liked ‘semi-reformed’!
UNA: No!
MARK: We had a hint.
MARK: And she has her herbal mixtures for her hip.

STEVEN: He’s actually frightening me now.
MARK: Really?

MARK: Never a good idea(!)
STEVEN: Incredible(!) Impossible!

(As Magnussen starts to pee in the fireplace)
MARK: This is filthy.
UNA: Yeah.
STEVEN: Yes ... by Scandinavia!
MARK: He doesn’t talk about that!
STEVEN: Le Chiffre Two.


(At CAM Global News)
MARK: And Tower 42 was the biggie.
UNA: Where is this building?
MARK: It’s in the City.
SUE: London.
MARK: D’you know London?!
STEVEN: There was a car; we got out.
MARK: They’re all in the same bank-y bit.
STEVEN: I remember we were shooting there ...
SUE: ... shooting through the night ...
MARK: ... in the rain ...
STEVEN: They died.
MARK: Next morning: all of them dead.
STEVEN: Well, we gave them a bit of help.

(Up in Janine’s office)
MARK: Spock!
STEVEN: Oh, Nick Hurran, behave!
STEVEN: ... terrible web?

MARK: Yes, rather than just reporting it.
MARK: It’s horrible.
STEVEN: Yeah. Yeah!
SUE: Cruel.

STEVEN: And concerned.
MARK: It’s just a great performance, it really is.
STEVEN: He’s just so unlike this, yeah.
MARK: Absolutely empty, yeah.
STEVEN: Quite spooky, wasn’t it?

(In Magnussen’s apartment)
MARK: Even she’s cleverer than him now!
STEVEN: Everyone’s cleverer than Sherlock!
STEVEN: It was so long!
(As Mary shoots Sherlock)
MARK: Ohh, we’ve just brought him back(!)


(As Molly talks about the bullet)
MARK: At least you tried.
STEVEN: [Loo] gets to wallop Benedict.
MARK (as Sherlock): I know this bit!

(When Mycroft’s Diogenes office appears)
MARK: Who is that star of the future?
STEVEN: Are you being mean to my son, Mark?
STEVEN: Then he triumphed.
MARK: And changed the colour of his eyes.
STEVEN: Yes, he wore contact lenses.
UNA: Really?!

STEVEN: Right – that plant is being ...
MARK: Off it goes on a fishing wire.
STEVEN: Just to screw with everyone’s heads.
MARK: Which it has done ever since.
STEVEN: The whole set was not tilted.


(As Sherlock convulses on the floor)
STEVEN: Love that shot. That’s a great shot.
MARK: It tends to happen.
UNA: So is this Arwel again, this set?
SUE: Yeah.

STEVEN: But I don’t even know I’m doing it!

MARK: I hope not!

On to part 2

7th-Nov-2014 09:29 am (UTC)
You know, now when I'm reading this, I genuinely wonder if we are watching the same show the authors are writing.

Because I get almost disappointed with the two of them being all gleeful like schoolboys, giggling "We fooled you!" when they insist that Sherlock is just a heartless human computer. Because in that case, Benedict is not playing him like that. I can't help it seeing more layers to him, and it sort of offends me - the writer's attitude to it, I mean.

It's like when Steven is so dismissive about Twitter not being the audience. I mean, sure, not the whole audience, but I think that it is a good average of Sherlock viewer, and that they should be paying attention to it, and not waving it aside. They obviously don't give two fucks about what the fans actually like and it's sort of... disappointing, as I said.
7th-Nov-2014 11:23 am (UTC)
I agree, I just don't see the same thing in the product that they seem to think they are putting on the screen. Like the point in this commentary where they're all: Oh, John was definitely not jealous of Janine and we had to make sure we re-edited it to be absolutely certain we weren't giving that impression... And then it still came across (to me) that John was jealous.

As to not caring what the fans think... I think Moffat also said somewhere else - possibly referring to Doctor Who - that he never writes what he thinks the viewers want to see. He only writes what he wants to see. I don't think that's being dismissive or arrogant per se, however. Since it's impossible to please everyone, your best bet is to please yourself. And clearly he's done pretty well with that credo so far, judging by the success of the series he's been involved in. It's also a very brave thing to do, in a way, because every criticism of his writing is then by extension a direct criticism of him as a person.

But yeah, I also really didn't like that 'Twitter isn't the audience' attitude even if it's true. I get the sense that they are pretty sick of all the Johnlock stuff online. Which I'm always afraid is going to turn into some backlash in that they really, REALLY kill Johnlock onscreen in some way. If that is possible. I like the ambiguity.
7th-Nov-2014 12:29 pm (UTC)
Hah, talking about that Janine/John scene, that one is a bad example for me because honestly I never saw jealousy there in the first place. John's behaviour during the whole exchange translates to me as utter bewilderment - not dismay, not exhilaration, simply neutral "What the HECK is going on?" I didn't sense any jealousy there, simply a surprise at someone who always claimed to not have time for dating suddenly having a girlfriend.

It can be that I have seen real people being jealous and trust me, it didn't look anything like this... real jealousy is always trying to stay hidden, not over-acting, jaw-dropping, wide-eyed like this. I can imagine Martin Freeman playing being jealous: he would get tight-lipped, in-drawn, maybe slightly menacing.

But it's only my experience and opinion, anyway.
10th-Feb-2015 10:56 pm (UTC) - Me too
I agree. He doesn't look jealous to me. Bemused, disbelieving, amused, a mix of entertained and dismayed by the fact that this Sherlock isn't who he has always known him to be. That last is very much what I was feeling, myself, watching Sherlock and Janine interact (I love the original story, but I'd forgotten the bit about Holmes's fake engagement), so maybe we all read into it what we feel about Sherlock.

You could make room for jealousy even without being a S/J shipper, because best friends do feel jealous of each other's romances, but I just don't see it on John's face.

7th-Nov-2014 01:10 pm (UTC)
I do get the "Twitter isn't the audience" comment. I remember nodding approvingly when I first listened to the commentary. Lots of shows have had exactly the same situation where a vocal group of fandom has wanted a particular pairing to become real onscreen; and on some occasions when the writers have finally allowed it to happen, it has ruined the show. I can think of "Moonlighting" and even "Mork and Mindy" as examples of that, and more recently "Stargate SG-1" didn't do itself any favours when it finally allowed there to be onscreen hints that Jack and Sam were dating offscreen. Responding to the demands of the fandom isn't necessarily a good thing.

There is a much larger audience than those who post shippy comments on Twitter, Tumblr etc and who create fanfic and fanart. Of the millions of people who watch Sherlock, it's really not a large majority who are swooning over Benedict and/or Martin and who would happily watch an episode where Sherlock and John sit in 221B and take it in turns to read aloud from the phone book for 90 minutes. And it's the general viewing public to whom the writers must cater. If it was only the fandom who watched the show, the low viewing figures would result in the BBC cancelling it very very quickly.

I don't think that Mofftiss don't care what fans think - after all, without the fandom the show would have a lot less publicity - but they know that they must think of the wider audience, the people who want to see an entertaining and exciting show and who don't have the slightest interest in a potential romantic relationship between the two leads. If, some time down the line, the writers decide that they do want to make the relationship more than just friendship, they'll do it when they feel that the majority of the viewing audience might accept it, but they'll not do it just because a vocal minority are demanding it. I totally understand that.
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7th-Nov-2014 01:17 pm (UTC)
It's not exactly that - part hoax, and part carelessness, and I don't know what irks me more.

Like - do you remember how much ado was in Sherlock meta posts about the Mind Palace sequence when Sherlock was running through the corridors and they were the same as in ASiP? One would think there was a meaning there. Well, and now we get to hear "We're simply running out of locations!"

It immediately comes to mind, for example, the way Sherlock's Dad is dressed, in the same style like John dresses, and the meta writing fans immediately going on "John fits into Sherlock's archetype of ideal man" - where the most obvious explanation now would be "Oh, we're running out of costumes."

That's why I simply can't believe in TJLC. Lots of the supporting evidence is purely our reading to something which was meant otherwise, or, like this, not meant at all.

Edited at 2014-11-07 01:20 pm (UTC)
(Deleted comment)
7th-Nov-2014 02:13 pm (UTC)
Yes, yes, exactly that!

That's what irks me. That they don't take their own work seriously. Absolutely no attention to timeline, wedding dates thrown around on a whim, continuity gone off the window.

You know, I've had a lot of this in Star Trek, when for example Riker's beard grew mysteriously in a two-weeks span, but you can overlook much in a series with 100+ episodes. When you have only 9 episodes in nearly as many years, my God, can't they be more careful?
10th-Feb-2015 11:04 pm (UTC) - Unintended meanings
Wow, that is not what I get from these comments at all. Gatiss and Moffatt strike me as incredibly careful, thorough writers, deeply respectful of the characters they've inherited/created, the GENERATIONS of fans--how many writers take on a character who was fanatically adored 100 years before they were born?--and the actors. They joke about some things that are beyond their control, such as repeating locations that aren't necessarily thematically linked (no, they are not suggesting that the Diogenes Club conceals a torture chamber--should they be?) or the glitches that come along with television (whoops, didn't strip all the trees of their leaves, good thing people aren't watching the trees that closely). But the big stuff? They are serious.

The fact that people find meanings in the work that the creators didn't mean to put there is just the nature of art. There's no point in holding it against the creators that they didn't intend every one of these meanings. In fact, we should be grateful. If they hadn't created such a complex, layered, well-thought-out work, it wouldn't have these unintended resonances.

11th-Feb-2015 09:54 am (UTC) - Re: Unintended meanings

Oh, I absolutely agree that certain parts of fandom will interpret perfectly innocent lines/scenes/moments/wallpaper to fit their own personal beliefs about the characters, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop us, and for most of the time there's no reason why we should be stopped. Most of the time it's fun and entertaining, and sometimes very tongue-in-cheek, and done with great love for the show, and it keeps us from going crazy during the long waits between seasons. It's just a shame that certain people in fandom get over-obsessive and will go on the attack if anybody disagrees with them; and it's a shame that such people get more attention than everyone else who is just having fun.

I wish I could agree with your comment about complex, layered, well-thought-out work. Mofftiss may have a good overall idea of how their characters will develop as the series progresses, but I don't think there's a single episode which stands up to close inspection. There are plot holes you could drive a double-decker bus through and some of them are so careless that I could hit something. As others have said above, the writers have got ages to plan out these storylines (and I totally appreciate that they have other work to do as well; their lives are not all Sherlock) but each episode gives the impression that the scriptwriter put it together in too much of a hurry. Either that or this programme desperately needs a script editor who is given time to take away the draft script, read through it slowly and carefully and point out the stupid plot errors.
7th-Nov-2014 01:59 pm (UTC)

*channeling John in ASiP* Oh God, yes.
7th-Nov-2014 03:40 pm (UTC)
:-D It's either this or that all the Sherlock set people down to the last lighting crew man ship Johnlock like FedEx from the very first episode and they just didn't dare to tell the writers, instead going on putting meaningful knicks-knacks on set and choosing wallpaper colours and matching the clothes the extras are wearing into hidden messages without MoffTiss knowing about any of this.

*locks herself away from internet for another week*
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