Wednesday, October 01, 2008

Why is Radio Live spreading anti-semitic lies?

The ongoing turbulence in global financial markets has alarmed many New Zealanders. More than a few Kiwis fear that the nosediving US sharemarket signals the beginning of a global depression that will cost them their jobs and mortgages. This week alone the Reserve Bank has been forced to issue two separate statements insisting that the country's banks are safe from the danger of collapse.

Many people are looking around for explanations for the economic calamity that now seems to threaten them. Talkback radio is one forum where Kiwis have been sharing their experiences of the financial crisis and suggesting reasons for its existence.

Unfortunately, some callers to talkback radio have been taking advantage of the current crisis to disseminate some old and ugly ideas.

Last Tuesday night tens of thousands of Kiwis tuned in to the talkback station Radio Live to hear a succession of callers blaming the chaos in the world's financial markets on a conspiracy run by Jewish capitalists and their allies. Radio Live talkback hosts Karyn Hay and Andrew Fagan not only refrained from criticising these anti-semitic arguments - at certain points in the evening they actually joined in the myth-making.

The deluge of calls began just before eight o'clock on Tuesday evening, and didn't end until ten o'clock, when Fagan and Hay ended their shift. The first caller to advance an anti-semitic explanation for the financial crisis identified himself as 'Dean'. Saying 'it's alright for me to kick the Jews, because I'm Jewish myself', Dean argued that the 'greed' of a group of 'Jewish bankers' had caused the insolvency of American banks and the collapse of Wall St shares. Dean claimed that Jewish bankers had also caused the Great Depression and World War Two, and that the Holocaust had been a 'backlash' against them. Near the end of his call, Dean announced that he had been promoting his views at public meetings, and predicted that a 'new backlash' would punish Jews for the latest crisis.

Talkback radio hosts tend to set a 'tone' which determines the sort of people who ring their shows. A left-wing host, for instance, will usually attract more callers with left-wing views than a right-wing host. Listeners feel empowered to call in when they hear a host espousing or accepting views similar to their own. Neither Karen Hay nor Andrew Fagan had a word of criticism for Dean's anti-semitic rant; not surprisingly, they were soon deluged with callers who advanced similar views.

Several of the callers explicitly defended Hitler and Nazism. One woman argued that Hitler's rise to power was an inevitable and understandable result of 'multiculturalism', which supposedly tore apart the 'fabric' of German society after World War One. She suggested that the same sort of 'multiculturalism' was ruining contemporary New Zealand society.

Another caller insisted that Hitler was a 'great leader' before he 'went mad' and started World War Two. According to this caller, Hitler was a hero in the 1930s because he stood up to 'international bankers' in the same way that New Zealander's first Labour government supposedly did. If the examples of Michael Joseph Savage and Hitler had been heeded, then the 'the bankers' would never have been able to create the current financial crisis.

Yet another caller to Radio Live claimed that the peoples of the world were the victims of an international Jewish conspiracy that stretched back to the Boston Tea Party, and suggested that gold from the World Trade Centre had been secretly shipped to Tel Aviv in the aftermath of 9/11. Other callers condemned Nazism and anti-semitism, but claimed that Hitler was only the tool of the same international conspiracy of bankers behind the financial crisis of 2008.

At no stage in the evening did either Karyn Hay or Andrew Fagan confront callers about the crackpot theories they were touting. One caller recommended that Hay read Antony Sutton's Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler, which argues that a cabal of financiers were behind the Bolshevik Revolution, the two World Wars, and Hitler's regime; in response, Hay looked the book up on the internet, read its publisher's blurb, and said that Sutton's arguments 'sounded very interesting' and 'made sense'. Later in the show Hay opined that 'it does look like Hitler's rise was all to do with money'. Andrew Fagan responded to the caller who praised Hitler as a 'great leader' by saying 'with your knowledge, you need to get into politics'. An elderly woman who rang Radio Live to say she was outraged by the 'rubbish being talked about Hitler and the 1930s' was cut off by Hay.

It is not hard to trace the geneaology of the arguments that were made on Radio Live last Tuesday night. Most of them descend from the anti-semitic mythology that the Nazis and other fascist movements popularised in the 1930s. The argument that communism is a weapon of Jewish financiers, for instance, was a stock in trade of the Nazis, and recurs frequently in Mein Kampf. The claim that a cabal of mostly-Jewish financiers control world events has been a staple of the extreme right since the late nineteenth century, and was made famous by Nazi broadcasters like Lord Haw Haw, who blamed World War Two on greedy Jewish bankers, rather than the belligerence of Hitler.

Not all of the callers to Radio Live advanced explicitly anti-semitic arguments. Some of them talked of a conspiracy by 'international finance' or 'the New World Order' rather than by Jews. Anthony Sutton's book is not explicitly anti-Semitic. Neither is None Dare Call It Conspiracy, a booklet produced in America by the John Birch Society and distributed for free to tens of thousands of New Zealanders by the right-wing religious cult Zenith Applied Philosophy. But conspiracy theories about a cabal of international financiers frequently refer to sinister Jews, and just as frequently rely on anti-semitic material for their references. None Dare Call It Conspiracy, for instance, cites the nakedly anti-semitic newspapers funded by Henry Ford as 'evidence' for its claim that a small group of bankers funded the Bolshevik revolution. Many of the financiers fingered as sinister conspirators by Sutton are Jewish.

Karyn Hay and Andrew Fagan are not bigots. Their radio show is usually an inoffensive mixture of good music, jokes, gossip, and semi-serious discussions of current events. It is perhaps ignorance, rather than prejudice, which stopped Hay from confronting and criticising the conspiracy theorists and anti-semites who inundated her show last Tuesday evening. At one point during the show, Hay admitted that 'I'm not that well-versed historically', and it is possible she didn't even recognise the sinister overtones in the arguments that some callers made. For his part, Fagan seems averse to discussing politics in any detail. He preferred to try to change the subject, rather than challenge the arguments of callers.

Like the rest of the media, talkback radio should be free of censorship. The fullest spectrum of views should be heard in places like Radio Live, even if the price is the sort of anti-semitic ranting that was heard on Tuesday night.

Is it too much, though, to ask hosts like Karyn Hay and Andrew Fagan to challenge and refute a set of myths which have such a long and evil history? Is it really so hard to see through the claim that Hitler was a great leader during the time of the Nuremberg Laws and the Kristallnacht? Is it so hard to see the absurdity of the claim that capitalist bankers orchestrated communist revolutions in Russia and China? Does the claim that Jews were behind the 9/11 attacks really deserve to go unchallenged, when it lacks a shred of supporting evidence?

If they want to take calls about serious subjects like the current financial crisis, then perhaps Hay and Fagan need to adopt a more serious attitude toward the politics of history. Radio hosts who allow anti-semitic arguments to go unchallenged become complicit in anti-semitism.


Blogger Richard Taylor said...

I stopped listening to Talk Back. I remember Gordon Dryden started it all in about 1973 or so and we used to listen a lot - Dryden was actually quite interesting (he started out as a Marxist BTW) but it all slowly degenerated.

I rarely listen to the radio and also hardly watch much TV - there is so much crap on the air waves.

These anti-Semites are screwballs -
it's like blaming World War 2 on the fact that a certain Fritz von heimlich Holtzheim stubbed his toe
on the Unter den Linden, Berlin, in August the 24th, 1939...

But silence is great.

10:30 pm  
Blogger Richard Taylor said...

BTW the whole things is greatly exaggerated - like the water scare we had in Auckland in 1994, or the nonsense about the Millenium (clocks etc) leading up to 2000 and so on.

As if power generators would stop because computers couldn't tell the time!!

10:36 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amazing. The first ever global depression will go down in history horribly misunderstood. What a pathetic bunch of ignorant fools we have become. Consumer junkie credit card morons. Say that reminds me.




A word for those who respond with the usual 'I know more than you. Look how smart, knowledgable, and articulate I am' crap. Let me say this in advance. I don't claim to be an expert in this field. But I did go on record with these predictions long before any public figure uttered the word 'recession'. If you search long enough, you will find my early postings from '05' and '06'. Including the first draft of this rant. Since then, I've gone on record against people like Greenspan, Bernanke, and Paulson. So far, my predictions have been accurate. Like I said. This is not brain surgery. For the mostpart, its simple math. When you concentrate the world's wealth, you also concentrate its capital and shrink the middle class along with the potential market for every major industry. Homes go unsold. Bills go unpaid. Banks fail. More products go unsold. Jobs are lost. More banks fail. and so on. and so on. It happened 80 years ago. It will happen again. This time on a global scale. Throughout the cycle, the rich will tighten their grip. Concentrating the world's wealth and resources even further and ensuring the collapse of every major economy worldwide. Think it can't happen? Think again. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

Another thing. I don't want credit for any of this. Otherwise, I would have given my full name a long time ago. As far as I'm concerned, you can put this rant in your own words and take credit for all of it. I don't care. Just spread the word. Otherwise, the greatest injustice of all time will go down in history unchecked.

By the way. The bailout won't work. IT WON'T WORK. The plan fails to address the fundamental problem. The middle class don't need more credit. They need a reasonable share of the economic pie. They also need a lower cost of living and a chance to catch their breath. Most of all, they need to wake up and see the truth. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL.

12:10 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A senior figure in the ACT was a part of the ZAP cult and helped distribute None Dare Call It Conspiracy. Trevor Loudon still believes Lenin and Mao were controlled by a cabal of bankers. In the 1980s he and ZAP worked with the League of Rights, an avowedly anti-semitic group. Today Loudon supplies Melanie Philips with her 'evidence' for Obama's connection to terrorism and Islam. And this nut was until recently the vice President of the ACT party!

2:45 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:47 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Melanie Phillips’ disreputable sources

September 17, 2008 by Neil

For those of you who haven’t been paying attention, let’s go over this one last time. The ‘change’ Barack Obama believes in isn’t just a syrupy by-word for Bambiesque ‘ideals’ like diplomacy, resisting the urge to torture prisoners & restoring Habeas Corpus; rather, it’s a black-powered Marxist death cult determined to enslave ‘whitey’ and hasten the arrival of the End Times. At least, that’s what anyone who’s read Melanie Phillips’ blog over the past few months would be forgiven for believing.

Unable to get too excited about John McCain (she’s written more about Sarah Palin than the Straight Talkin’ One), Mel decided to focus her blogging prowess on uncovering all there is to know about the slippery Illinois Senator, speculating about Obama’s ‘Muslim roots’, the ‘Muslim roots’ of his ex Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, and the ‘Muslim roots’ of shamed former associate, Antoin Rezko. Having done the whole ‘the Muslims are coming!’ thing to death, she’s tried a new tack in recent weeks, reminding her readers about his association with the ‘radical’ Saul Alinsky, the ‘radical terrorist’ William Ayers, and now the ‘radical, black Communist’ Frank Marshall Davis. So what’s this black Senator doing with all these radicals then? Well, obviously because he shares their agenda:

the agenda indeed of Gramsci/Alinsky: patron saints of community organisers, apostles of deeply underground mole-like revolutionary Marxism, architects of the wildly successful undermining of western morality and society in America and Britain — and now poised to embed itself in the White House, epicentre of the oppressive global capitalist regime, itself.

Join up the dots.

You can bet she felt very smug writing that part. Progressives don’t have anything to fear from the allegations made in Mel’s mega-series; most are second-hand recitations of long-debunked smears (she insists on citing 9/11 conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi despite the fact his book couldn’t even get the date of Barack & Michelle’s wedding correct), whilst the rest rely on the Guilt by Association fallacy. What does baffle me, however, is why she continues to do it. Does she not know that the sources for her smears are discredited? Is she aware they’re discredited but still believe them to be true? Or, worse, does she just not care whether the information she uses is sound or not? To illustrate, let’s look at the credentials of three men credited with the information in Mel’s last post:

Trevor Loudon: An ex-Vice President of New Zealand’s right-wing ACT Party, Loudon is a student of Zenith Applied Philosophy, a small Scientology spin-off founded by a guy who calls himself ‘John Ultimate’ and believes his home to be the centre of the universe. ZAP has attracted some controversy over its reported links with fascist organisations. When he’s not busy suggesting Obama is a Communist, Loudon can occasionally be found comparing cabinet ministers to Himmler.

Cliff Kincaid: Cliff is president of ‘UN watchdog group’ America’s Survival and editor of Accuracy In Media. Once funded by philanthropist of the far-right, Richard Mellon Scaife, AIM achieved notoriety in 2001 by ‘proving’ Bill Clinton had ordered the murder of Vince Foster, despite three independent investigations (including one by Kenneth Starr) finding no evidence for it. Ever eager to jump on a non-story to slime his enemies, in 07 Kincaid pronounced that the ‘Hillary is a lesbian’ lie was ‘as explosive’ as the lie about Obama being raised as a Muslim. Just for laughs, Kincaid also happens to believe that you can stop being gay as easily as you can quit smoking.

Herbert Romerstein: A lower-profile hatchet man than the others. Romerstein’s life’s work has been smearing people as unpatriotic, from his work investigating Un-American Activities in Congress, through to a line of books on the matter. He smeared the writer I.F. Stone as a Communist despite being the sole source for the accusation, and was described by decorated US attorney Martin Garbus as ‘utterly untrustworthy’.

These are the people Melanie Phillips cites, uncritically, to build her latest case against Barack Obama. Not exactly Woodward & Bernstein, is it? I have no idea whether Phillips’ continually clumsy hatchet job on Obama is due to laziness, naivety, delusion or just plain old partisan cynicism. But the last time I checked, there were still some standards of honesty & accuracy in the journalistic profession, and if Phillips can’t adhere to even the most basic of those standards, then perhaps she’d be better off resigning from her posts, taking up blogging full time, and retiring to the world of the hackneyed hard-right, where every conservative is virtuous, every liberal is evil and where nothing they say or write is ever, ever wrong.

2:48 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Zionism is a major problem in the United States and talking about it is the 3rd rail of American Politics. However Jews had nothing to fear in the U.S. since the right is now blaming Blacks for the current crisis.

Zionist Jews do have a lot of power in the U.S. and it is not anti-Semitic to point this out. Jews are overrepresented in both industry and in the media and in politics and Zionism lead to racism and anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racism.

This is an issue that the Left has tried to camouflage especially the War on Iraq. The Left has been trying to sell it as a War for Oil for obscure Zionism as "Imperialism".

American Zionism is a serious issue that needs to be confronted and if it is not confronted can and will lead to an anti-Semitic backlash

6:21 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You should ring the station so the thousands of Kiwis can hear your side.


Try it sometime, all genuine callers welcome... OR you can live a life online.

Your Choice,
Adrian (Producer Karen Hay & Andrew Fagan)

9:22 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Producer said:


No, talkback is angry people shouting at each other about meaningless crap. No one learns anything. You just expanded racism and entertained a bunch of screen-bound conspiracy theorists with no education.

call them iDicks.

Also, you, The Producer and your uneducated hosts (is there a Degree amongst you anywhere?) just got hazed by a bunch of extremists campaigning (der).

If one gets on with a nutty idea they immeadiatley call/MSN/Skype their equally nutty mates and get them to blast your lines.


Stop being dicks.

Read some books.

What you let on last Tuesday is not something that NZrs think is clever. No wonder RadioLive does not rate.


I do feel a bit sorry for Andrew and Karen though, they obviously don't have the intellectual background to know when they should moderate callers. Like Karen said 'I don't know history'.

Ahh, what some of our cultural heroes do for money now aye!

Grow some bones.

11:55 pm  
Blogger Richard Taylor said...

I think there is case for taking the radio station to Court, or bringing to wider attention in the general press for example - (it is at least a case for the Race Conciliator - or a protest action) on this one Maps. There is a limit to "free speech" - by not talking or interceding they actually abet anti-Semitism. They know this. They are not ignorant - they are active racists as I see it (if your report is true).

Zionism is not the issue - to be non-supportive of Israeli foreign policy (Israel is very much tied to the US of course) say toward Palestine etc is not to endorse racism against Jewish people.

It is absolute nonsense (and it is obnoxious if not actually dangerous) as anti-Semitism has caused so many tragic outcomes for so long - to believe the "Jews" are behind the economic collapse - or that they are "running everything" as Hitler believed. The Jewish people are as diverse politically as everyone else is. Most like most of us are not rich.

These radio talk-back People are often very right wing and / or corrupt. Talk back attracts the worst of our society unfortunately.
They hide on the end of telephone lines (or in their radio studios on big wages); and talk endless bilge...

11:58 pm  
Blogger Richard Taylor said...

Anonymous puts the "blame" on certain individuals when the problem is systemic - but there is a lot of passion and much truth in what anonymous is saying - but the process has gone on longer than 27 years.

But there are genuine humanitarians amongst the rich - everyone is part of the "problem" - not just Opprah Winfrey or the head of some big oil company.
It is well known that most people in the world are very poor - this is bad (and sure it is an important issue) but it is not not new.

Capitalism will always go into cycles of recession or depression and so on - boom and bust as it it is called in the trade. It is like the weather: mostly it is either not too good or bad then sometimes there is a storm!

Dr Phil and Opprah have a lot of wisdom in fact - and have helped a lot of people.

12:16 am  
Blogger Richard Taylor said...

Another point - it is often the case that major revolutionary changes occur times of economic collapse.

Anonymous you clearly care - but don't obsess on this - we can beat the bastards!

12:21 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you want to complain, first write to RadioLive with broad specifics of your complaint.

I.e., 'I thought last Tuesday night's broadcast breached Broadcasting Standards because of a significant amount of racism towards Jewish people and it was unbalanced'.

The rules are at

The radio station must respond in good time.

Mention that you know that they must keep tapes of the broadcast for 30 days and hat will be critical to your complaint should they not agree to apologise.

(BSA rules that some stations get around by saying 'we haven't got them', bollocks, they are all digital files on servers that stay there for a long time)

If they don't respond within 10 days, go to the BSA.

They probably breached a few of the rules around Good Taste, Fairness and Balance as well.

A good petition would definatley go through.

12:49 am  
Blogger maps said...

Excellent points from Richard and the two latest anons.

I have had a deluge of responses to this post and will put something up in response to them later today (there are a couple of links under these comemnts which take you to some spin-off discussion on other blogs).

9:33 am  
Blogger maps said...

Actually, you have to go out of this comments thread and back to the bottom of the main post and click 'Links to this post' to be taken to the spin-off pieces.

9:35 am  
Anonymous Karyn Hay said...

I cannot believe how one person's unreliable blog can create so much misinformation. Yes, a couple of ignorant callers did phone in with vaguely offensive remarks. I am of the firm opinion that if you 'give 'em enough rope they will hang themselves', and that's exactly what happened. The blogger writes: "Like the rest of the media, talkback radio should be free of censorship. The fullest spectrum of views should be heard in places like Radio Live, even if the price is the sort of anti-Semitic ranting that was heard on Tuesday night." Anti-Semitism was not the theme of the evening; we had a bunch of conspiracy theorists who persist in this idea that everyone from the Queen to the Rockefellers control the world from some secret hideout in Europe. Mad? Up to you to decide. Additionally the woman who was talking about multiculturalism was talking broadly about the New Zealand Labour Party's immigration policy which covers Asia, the Pacific Islands, the UK; the world in fact. She made the link (spurious or not) that these were the same conditions in Germany that contributed to Hitler's rise. Was she right? I have no idea; it's her theory. It is your right to refute this if you happen to think differently. At no point in that call did she mention Jews, and we know this particular caller anyway - she's politically motivated against the Labour Party so uses any 'topic' to score a point against them.
Why didn't the said blogger phone up? It's a free call. We would have welcomed his views, and that would have gone a long way towards balancing the argument. Incidentally, we discussed this blog on air last night and listeners who had heard the show phoned in to say they thought this blog was a storm in a teacup. I did not cut off the woman who was 'outraged'. It's simply not true; it just suits the blogger's argument. Talkback is just that: talkback. Put your point of view forward at the time via the phone, rather than making it a war of words after the event.

11:12 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who cares if a couple of callers to a talkback show think it was a 'storm in a teacup'? I would rather see what the BSA thinks of it if someone complains. They seem to have a far more solid grip on these things.

12:01 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A load of garbage from Hay.

I heard her promoting Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler on her show - therefore she promoted anti-semitic conspiracy creeps. Whether it was out of ignorance as this site says or out of sympathy we don't know.

12:57 pm  
Anonymous Karyn Hay said...

I really don't have the appetite to continue to do battle with all the 'annonymous' people on this site - have the courage of your convictions to leave your name for a start. Yes, the book looked interesting.That doesn't mean I was was going to read it with a closed mind or agree with all it said. In reply to the other 'annonymous' on this site I'm not sure about our Producer, Adrian, but Fagan has a degree in political science and anthropology from Victoria University. That doesn't make him a genius but he's no racist idiot either. If you have any views that you would like to get across to more than the online enthusiasts on this site I suggest you call 0800 723 465. Happy to take your call.

2:03 pm  
Anonymous Karyn Hay said...

sorry that should read 'anonymous'

2:06 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No one should have to reveal their identity if they don't want to.

Much like the callers to Hays' and Fagan's show the other night. Next time, have your callers state their full name, occupation and location.

Also, why should anyone call their show and become part of their agenda? In a democracy people are allowed to express themselves in the forums THEY choose.

This blog is an extension of the arguments presented last Tuesday night. It is the forum the people commenting here have chosen. You can't tell people were and when to challenge you.

Also, could we please have the entire show in question put up on the RadioLive website? That might clear up any misunderstandings.

2:35 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Karyn, you were better off presenting music clips. How can you seriously say this:


You have no idea? Might I humbly suggest that if you have no idea whether that caller was right or not -- BTW, she wasn't -- you probably shouldn't be co-hosting talkback, which requires a degree of basic general knowledge. Yes, it is "her theory" but what about her facts?

3:03 pm  
Anonymous anarchore said...

Anti-semitism(sic) is a healthy instinct. The evidence shows that Israelis were involved in 911 with help from Jewish and non-Jewish Zionists, so for these people to scam the money system, the fake money house of cards they set up, just comes naturally. Some of the same people are involved with both scams. Remember Jesus and the money changers.

5:27 am  
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11:48 pm  
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أن الشركة تتمتع بالالتزام التام بمواعيدها، فلا تعمل على مخالفتها تحت أي ظرف من الظروف وهذا بداية من عملية الاتصال وحتى إنهاء الخدمة تمامًا، كما أن فريق العمل ذو حجم كبير نسبيًا نقل عفش بالخبر
شركة نقل عفش بالجبيل
شركة نقل عفش بالجبيل

1:21 pm  
Blogger على محمد said...

شركة رش مبيدات بالاحساء
شركة رش مبيدات بالدمام
شركة رش مبيدات بالقطيف
شركة مكافحة حشرات بالخبر
شركة مكافحة حشرات بالجبيل
شركة مكافحة حشرات بالاحساء
شركة مكافحة حشرات بالقطيف

5:31 am  
Blogger meldaresearch said...


7:01 pm  
Blogger meldaresearch said...

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2:24 am  

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