all 97 comments

[–]scaredofcheese 136 points137 points  (11 children)

A fun twisty thing and then... WHAT THE FUCK IT’S A DIFFERENT MOVIE.

[–]Gr33nman460 72 points73 points  (7 children)

Your comment made me read the plot on Wikipedia. What the fuck

[–]Mr_Kool 49 points50 points  (5 children)

I had no intention to watch this one so I read it too. It could be a different experience watching it, but from reading the synopsis the twist sounds like it comes way out of left field and part of a rushed ending.

[–]heretogif 47 points48 points  (2 children)

It does. Like you know that she’s playing him pretty quickly but the reason is so odd and changes the tone that the movie never really recovers from

[–]jldc33 24 points25 points  (1 child)

I was so annoyed by this. The twist is something that the audience could never have guessed bc none of it was even hinted at throughout the entire movie! So unsatisfying. Not to mention that the beginning was so boring that I almost fell asleep.

[–]Kittens4Brunch 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It's old people acting like boring old people.

[–]bubbameister33 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Probably more subtle in the book.

[–]ManitouWakinyan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Absolutely correct.

[–]utopista114 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

PC idpol gone mad, in a sub-Mametian tired plot.

Quite disgusting.

[–]Keeponrocking613 52 points53 points  (1 child)

Im going to be a little bias because I had the luck of winning tickets to the movie premiere for this where Helen Mirren made us all raise our hands and swear we wouldn't spoil the ending to anyone....but now thats it out Im less worried.

I enjoyed the film even if some parts seemed obvious to happen and they made you really hate Ian Mckellan throughout the film too. It was entertaining and what else can I ask from it.

[–]tmvs84 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Agreed, I felt the ending went a bit OTT, but the characters and performances were great. I also loved the scenes in England, they captured it so well I thought, especially Helen Mirren’s house.

[–]JakeM917 34 points35 points  (4 children)

Loved this movie. Didn’t have so much of a problem with the background that gave Lili her motive, but more with the unlikelihood of her being so intelligent as to set everything up leading to them first meeting at the restaurant. Plus how convoluted her plan was, but it serves its thematic purpose and throws McKellen’s character right back at him.

[–]Smokinacesfan55 26 points27 points  (3 children)

I bought most of the revenge elements except for the Russian thugs being on her side. Seemed to take a step into the comical

[–]CortaNalgas 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I think she only got the butcher and the investor on her side after the fact—promise they a chance at revenge for a little extra backup.

[–]Smokinacesfan55 10 points11 points  (1 child)

In the flashback they definitely show the guys who held down the Russian and beat his hand helping set up her house. I think she just called the Russian and black guy at the very end

[–]CortaNalgas 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah wtf

[–]tekym 24 points25 points  (2 children)

I figured based on the trailers that she'd end up being the one scamming him, but...I didn't expect that.

[–]Robot-King56 10 points11 points  (1 child)

It wouldn't be much of a plot if she wasn't scamming him.

[–]WhiteTigerShiro 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, movies like this always have a second scammer. Otherwise it's just a straight forward job. The only way to make this interesting with just one scammer is if either the grandson was the main character trying to fight against the scammer, or if there was some ambiguity whether or not he's going to scam her (say he falls in love or something).

[–]FancyShrimp 22 points23 points  (4 children)

I’m not sure how I feel about Gandalf swearing and raping.

[–]BackslidingAlt 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Wait till you see Gandalf leading the brotherhood of evil mutants, and Gandalf trying to stop the Scarlet Pimpernel!

[–]FancyShrimp 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Magneto has a valid point, though. He's just going about it in the wrong manner.

Rape is wrong, regardless.

[–]BackslidingAlt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and Chauvelin just wanted the french revolution to go off without a hitch. Dam superheroes with secret identities coming into existence out of nowhere disrupting the will of the people must be stopped!

[–]utopista114 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Contributing to the Nazi war effort with your factories is a bit worse, even if it is only until 1943.

[–]entersoundman 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Loved Ian McK in this but hated the final twist. Came out of nowhere and felt like a really lazy reason writing wise to have Helen’s character be out for revenge.

[–]Hickspy 38 points39 points  (5 children)

Don't know about y'all, but my theatre was full of people that clearly hadn't been to a theatre since Dr. Zhivago.

Noone knew to shut up. There was talking up through the opening credits, and often when there was a lull in the dialogue. Not just one pack of bad apples either, multiple groups of old people that thought it was a good time to start gabbing away.

[–]Purdaddy 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Old people seem to be the worst movie theater patrons.

[–]GruxKing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They really are. It’s like they don’t give a fuck. Which is fine for some situations but it’s detrimental to the people around them in a theater

[–]BillFireCrotchWalton 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I was worried about that too when I walked in and saw so many people twice my age. This one couple bumbled in and LOUDLY discussed how they couldn't find their seats. This was during the previews though, and honestly it was smooth sailing from there, surprisingly enough.

[–]beefiddy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s funny because in my experience old people are the best to watch movies with because they at least shut the hell up, I do have to listen to cell phones going off every 20 minutes though.

[–]supermanfan122508 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You can't pull the rug out from under the audience if you never placed the rug there to begin with.

Helen and Ian were wonderful, though.

[–]billbillbills 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I thought I had clicked on Ford v Ferrari's thread and I was SO confused.

[–]Connelly90 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Wait, why is that movie called Ford vs Ferrari elsewhere but Le Mans 66 here?...

I don't get it.

[–]coltsmetsfan614 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Because most people in the U.S. don't know what Le Mans is, but everyone knows Ford and Ferrari.

[–]timeflieswhen 11 points12 points  (0 children)

They made just 200,000 pounds on that first caper? That’s nothing given all the people involved, the office and furniture rental, moving expenses, entertainment, etc. Hardly worth it.

[–]Smokinacesfan55 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I would unfortunately recommend skipping this one unless you just want something watchable. The story is coherent but poorly edited together. McKellan and Mirren are both excellent, but the filmmaking that surrounds them doesn’t elevate the actors.

[–]WhiteTigerShiro 12 points13 points  (2 children)

I thought it was a good movie. I only have two questions regarding the last scene (not the twist, the final-final scene):

A) what was the mistake in Berlin that her "grandson" apologizes for? Was it just an excuse to drop that "fond of you" line that would get a reaction from her, or did he actually make a mistake?

B) What was the scene where she tells her grand daughters to be careful because "it's deeper than you think"? Seems like a completely odd thing to throw in there, so it must have some significance.

[–]duh_metrius 7 points8 points  (0 children)

My takes:

A) I think her 'grandson' taking them to the apartment where Roy was wounded in '46 was a rogue move on his part. I think the idea is that the grandson was so incensed by the brazenness of Roy's lying and unrepentent criminality that he couldn't stand to not confront him. The whole point of them going to Berlin to begin with was so Mirren could get the locket. That said, I don't think that scene in the apartment holds up to scrutiny. Fairly contrived.

B) Within the world of the story, Mirren's granddaughters remind her of her sisters and she very sincerely is telling them to be careful. Having lived through so much tragedy can make a person wary of their loved ones being in danger. From a storytelling point of view, I think the line is there as a general reference to the plot of the story. Mirren's character seemed like a lonely old widow, but she was so much more. Roy seemed like a simple con man, but he was much worse. There's often more beneath the surface, and that's where the danger lies.

[–]adriamarievigg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have these questions too. I thought perhaps his mistake was bringing Roy to the apartment and exposing him as Hans...idk

I assumed her watching her grand daughters reminded her of a simpler time with her sisters

Also, I thought a better ending would be just a close up on Roy’s face. Bold for Vincent to visit I thought or maybe he was just a plot device so the audience gets closure on what happened to him in the long run.

[–]igotbannedforh8mail 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Surprised at how old the audience in my theater was. I mean they were all old enough to be grandparents. Honestly didn’t see that audience coming. Now on to the movie.

Honestly this was a fun film. I enjoyed the twist at the end and the fact that within just a few minutes the whole plot changed. Probably one of the better films I’ve seen this weekend behind Motherless Brooklyn, and Ford vs Ferrari but in front of Charlie’s Angels.

[–]comeonbabycoverme 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Were you really surprised by the older audience or is that a joke?

Edit: were not we're

[–]igotbannedforh8mail 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I mean I figured someone my dad’s age would’ve gone to see it 50-60 but my theater looked like the local nursing home bought a bunch of tickets and brought them in. That I was surprised about.

[–]geiko989 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol, I live in an area that has a much higher median age than mine, and my local theater is a small, indie style theater that usually plays indie movies over the blockbusters, so pretty much every movie I go to there I can expect an older crowd than your standard theater. Also, I decided to go to the first showing of the day, which has cheaper tickets and you know, old people and time.

But sometimes people just want to see themselves represented on screen. No matter who the group is. So when it happens, I think it's only normal that they will flock to see it.

[–]Rob233913 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I was thinking the twist was going to be Roy ripped off her husband and it drove him to suicide. When Steven showed he was Hans it felt like a weird move but it does tie in to the end. If they had shown that and then the end was Roy ripped off her husband that scene would have been in for no reason. But it's true they did not hint at the fact they knew each other at all or that she was German. Even the Lilly painting - it was obvious that meant something to her but he was oblivious and we had no indication of what it meant either. The rape part was shocking, they could have had him report her father, mother commits suicide then the sisters die and that would have been more then enough for her to seek revenge. Also I have no idea how Roy did not check for the keypad and transfer the money while on the train but waited to get all the way to London and start drinking before he looked for it.

Overall it was a okay film, they both are great actors so they do a great job but the story was so-so.

[–]dreamaboutdeath 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Wow. Honestly, for the first two thirds I was having a lot of fun with this, and so was my audience. Everyone was laughing, gasping, and being really lively. And then that thing in the 3rd act happens, and I'm not sure how I really felt about that. It was incredibly uncomfortable and unpredictable in the worst way, like NOTHING in the movie even hinted that something like that would happen. Anyway, overall I'd give it a 7 out of 10 because I enjoyed most of it, but God that thing was uncomfortable af.

[–]geiko989 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I think it would've been better making more of the movie revolve around her since the audience knew before a second of this movie that it would be a twist. If they'd been upfront that her character was also playing games and trying to get at something, the twist could've been better or could've worked better. It was just so jarring.

Also, I haven't seen anyone mention this, but how in the hell was her only defense against him in the end a phone call? Why weren't those guys in the house hiding in the closet. He absolutely could've killed her. Very silly ending, and I don't think the first 2/3 of the film was good enough for it to warrant a 7/10. 7/10 is a really decent movie. It certainly was pleasant and a good watch, and I don't regret having seen it. But definitely not a 7 for me.

[–]msmmns210[🍰] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Thought it was kinda weird that there was just an entire murder without consequences thing that happened. I guess it was just to show Roy’s ruthlessness? But man...the end of this movie just takes a hard left to a dark place and left me saying WTF repeatedly.

[–]Hickspy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Loads of bit players from Game of Thrones roaming this movie.

[–]dashcam4life 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Loved seeing Helen M. And Ian M. on the screen together.

[–]SavageSvage 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I enjoyed it. It was a bit heavy handed with the reveal explanation but eh, i enjoyed it.

[–]LMGDiVa 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I got to early screen this.

It was pretty good. Very clever and unexpected.

There some boring parts of the film that dragged on that at first I didnt like until the end and then I realized those parts were absolutely intentional and important to the film.

Very well played movie.

[–]ElleBree_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

its okay but too predictable with the final twist, which is weird cause everything other twist was clever https://youtu.be/u4E9xmvIFmw

[–]Hickspy 16 points17 points  (0 children)

It was predictable that there would be a twist, so the movie had to spend 10 minutes explaining why it was a good twist in the moment the twist was happening.

[–]MartyMcToon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I really enjoyed this. I definitely don't think it's a classic and not one of Condon's best but it works pretty well, and McKellen and Mirren are electric and sell even the weirdest parts of this screenplay.

But boy, I really didn't need to be told this was based on a novel. I could tell just from how fucking wordy this whole thing is. That final sequence just kept piling on.

But it's pretty good overall. Worth a viewing, maybe take a grandparent who likes these two actors (but just be wary there's a couple moments of offensive material).

[–]makingaccountssux 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Decent Movie. Great acting from Ian McKellen and Helen Miren was good as well.

The problem with the movie was there are a few scenes which feel like they were taken directly from chapters in the novel, but were completely unnecessary in the context of a two hour movie. The story was simple enough, and the background information really bogged down the ending. The ending is so silly it really brings down the entire movie.

The mundane stuff at the beginning is honestly great, I loved the acting but the stuff in Germany and the history between the two really brought down the movie.

[–]Abhorrent69 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I was really excited to see this but it was such a let down. Don’t get me wrong the main actors were great but I can’t get over how the plot just has what seems like an entirely other plot and film smooshed into it. I wish it was just a simple like cat and mouse situation with him being a con man and her twisting it around on him. It really ruined it for me and I probably won’t recommend it to others because of how unpredictable it is. Also the trailer revealed some of the best moments of action in this film.

[–]batts1234 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Enjoyed this. Yes, the final twist was a little out of nowhere, but I enjoyed how they set it up. Was completely uncomfortable during the twist reveal though. I'm sure that is what they intended but could have done without that. McKellan was fantastic as I expected.

[–]PureSmoke 2 points3 points  (2 children)

It was a good movie. The twist came out of nowhere and could have been hinted at a bit before so as to give the audience the chance to guess that it was coming. It was really unpredictable. Still, it was a good film!

Question: Was the "robber" who tried to break in during the night the grandson? If so, what was the point of that? Just to "scare" Roy and add to Lilie's game?

[–]genius_waitress 5 points6 points  (1 child)

No, it was Bryn, the guy they had conned earlier in the fake Russian deal. He admits it to Roy to let him know he can get to Betty if he wants to, so he'd better make things right. Of course, seconds later, he is decapitated by a subway train, so the break-ins stop.

[–]PureSmoke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ohhhh ok, I missed that. Thanks!

[–]capamericapistons 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think the rotten tomatoes rating is pretty accurate on this one, maybe I’d give it a little higher though, like a 6/10. Overall it was pretty decent and a good story. Kept you engaged and entertained the whole time. Technical aspects were pretty good too. I saw someone complain about the editing and I can kind of see where they’re coming from, but everything else was good, like the pacing and what not. Acting performances were solid. Liked how unpredictable it was. My main complaint with the film is sometimes it felt confusing or hard to understand. Like they could’ve explained some situations better. I also kind of agree that the ending sort of came out of nowhere, but I did enjoy how you couldn’t really see it coming.

If you haven’t seen the movie, I’d recommend it but try your best to not read any reviews on it, go into it as fresh minded as possible because the ending is quite intriguing.

[–]adriamarievigg 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I really liked the movie but I do have a question.

What was with the hair? She went back to her old house to get the locket, which had a sample of his hair, but she had already cut it, so she didn’t need it, but what did she need it for?

Also, I found it a bit hard to believe she would wait over 60 years to get revenge. Were the characters this old in the book? Roy was 81. I think I would have felt more vindicated if he was in his 50’s

[–]EMCoupling 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The old hair was DNA from Hans and the new DNA was from "Roy". This conclusively shows that Roy is actually Hans.

[–]Aftermath16 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But how can she prove that the old hair is from Hans in the first place? If they can match it up with anything, then that means they already have Hans’s DNA, which makes the old lock of hair pointless.

[–]EMCoupling 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I also brought this point up with a friend after I saw the movie and I concluded that it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense overall.

Honestly this whole thing with the "I'm totally over you" but actually I spent like 50 years plotting my revenge on you is pretty ridiculous. That's why I didn't like the movie much.

[–]negative-EV 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe she didn't recognize him until he was much older.

[–]wasteplease 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really enjoyed this. But I think I have enjoyed every film I’ve ever seen Helen Mirren in.

[–]duh_metrius 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Overall I enjoyed it. Saw it on a weekday matinee with an AMC pass so I didn't pay for anything except my unreasonably expensive soda. A lot of people are singing McKellen and Mirren's praises, as well they should, but I would go so far as to say McKellen actually isn't getting the level of praise he deserves. It's a truly terrific and surprising performance, in which he is able to both obfuscate and reveal his every internal thought just through the glimmer of his eyes. Great fun watching him work.

As for the plot, I agree with everybody that the twists were fairly predictable, at least the general ideas if not the particulars. But also, that Roy is actually a German man with a stolen identity isn't meant to be the twist at all. It's telegraphed throughout the movie, from his resistance to talking about the Nazis with Steven to when he and Betty are shopping for a new umbrella, and Roy says his got him through the war, to which Betty retorts "On the losing side from the look of it." Those are fun breadcrumbs to leave for the audience but it felt like it was adding up to something more substantive than the story Roy reveals in the Berlin apartment. And I think that's the point- to make you feel that the twist has come and it's not so bad as you thought, only to then have the final, big reveal come along at the end.

I certainly suspected that Roy and Betty had a history only one of them remembered, but the particulars were definitely a surprise. I don't know how successful the execution was, but it was fun thinking back on the first act when I was walking home. Things like Betty barely managing a smile and then downing half her martini when she 'meets' Roy for their first date, or the look on her face when Roy tells her that he's fond of her. Or how when Betty tells Steven in the Berlin apartment that she can make her own choices and if he doesn't like it they shouldn't speak for a while- what seems to be a fight over Roy and Betty's relationship is actually about Steven deviating from the plan.

Overall I give it a 7/10.

[–]trulyreddit606 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Does anyone know if there was any significance about the year of the story being set in 2009?

[–]mfranko88 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think just to make the ages line up. If it took place in modern day, the lead characters would be in their early-mid 90s

[–]cynnicole 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do those keypad things exist in real life? They looked like basic calculators & seemed too simple to be used for securely transferring funds.

[–]SaturdayNightsAlryte 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I loved it. I hope to be that cunning when I'm ancient

[–]TheTrueRory 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kinda disappointed. Too much of a slow burn only to have a rather obvious twist. Mirren and McKellen were of course great but their interplay was kind of dull and predictable. The film was too serious to have fun with the idea of an old conman, and the twist was not interesting enough to make that seriousness really stick.

[–]bellsofwar3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Decent film until the third act. It tried to get way too cute and got excessive. While predictable it would have been better if it had stayed at a simple double crossing.

[–]IsHaplo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That ending was, while good in it's own messed up way, felt off. The trailer made it seem like Ian McKellen was a bad-ass war veteran. That subway scene was the only cool thing he did.

He becomes a bumbling fool towards the end. Couldn't even off Helen Mirren. Weird.

Wished it wasn't the usual switcheroo ending.

Still, it was way more entertaining than most of the stuff we get these days. Scorcese will be pleased.

[–]Live4Night 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What at odd twist. I was so confused during the flashback scenes with Lili's sisters. I was thinking, "there's no way this going to end up being rapey" And then it did 😐

[–]austinbond132 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I don’t understand why they went to the apartment in Berlin to unveil his history - if they were planning to scam him and get revenge, why did they force him to admit his stolen identity, in what could have scared him away from the scheme??

[–]lessmiserables 0 points1 point  (2 children)

That was the grandson going rogue--that wasn't originally planned. That's what he apologized for in the last scene.

[–]austinbond132 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yes but I don’t understand why - why did he think that helped their cause? I cannot see any plausible in-universe reason

[–]lessmiserables 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He didn't. He was mad about what he found out, wanted to provoke him, and it almost backfired. When Betty says "maybe we won't talk for a while" that wasn't part of the act--she was mad that he went rogue. And, hence, the apology.

[–]lessmiserables 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did enjoy this movie--it was pretty much what I expected. While, as others have said, the third act goes off the rails a bit, it's not entirely out of tone and is interesting.

Still, part of me wonders how hard it would have been to piece up all the bits. It's clear from the beginning that Betty is going to turn the tables at some point--that's how these con movies go. The actually did a good job of showing quite a few scenes of Roy being doubtful, which made me think that things would turn around and Betty would feel bad conning Roy in return if Roy showed remorse--etc. etc.

But I just wish they would have made some more overt--or at least earlier indications--that they had known each other in the past. We do get hints of it (like Roy stammering for a moment over having the new password) but that's, like, two minutes before the reveal. We all knew that Betty didn't just go off and hurt her hand, but we aren't even afforded a little guess as to what she could have been doing--it all just came out of left field.

I didn't mind that it was all a surprise, because this is a criminal thriller, not a whodunit--but still, it was set up that things like that could have been inserted so easily, and yet they didn't.