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[–]imagepriest 1437 points1438 points  (314 children)

I've just received that annoying email as well. What gives? Sure, you'll raise $100 no problem but your point is why should you have to pay to give something away? Also, remember you're going to be paying $100 every year just to continue giving something away.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 1291 points1292 points  (263 children)

this right here is my issue.

I can find the $100. Hell, if I got something worthwhile in return I'd pay $100 out of my own pocket even with no hope of getting it back.

This just feels like a HUGE kick in the face from Apple, whether intentional or not. I shouldn't have to pay for the privilege of giving away free software on a browser that frankly has the weakest of the four extension APIs.

EDIT: for those saying "it's to keep spam out" -- a spammer or malware author has a lot more than $100 to gain from getting malware on the store. My free (until now) developer certificate already had to be issued via my iTunes account - so they know who I am and have my credit card info etc without me paying $100.

[–]Intentt 576 points577 points  (39 children)

You are 100% right. There is no reason why you should be paying Apple money when it's you that's adding value to their product.

Crazy. They took a mutually beneficial situation and tried turning it into a revenue stream.

[–]positron3000 100 points101 points  (26 children)

Reminds me of the whole paid mods debacle that recently happened to steam. Exploiting people who already contribute to your product for free is a horrible idea

[–]Wiseguydude 58 points59 points  (16 children)

They weren't charging modders, they were charging customers to use mods. It's a good idea because it allows modders to make money off there work so it promotes quality in mods. However, it was very badly implemented. The modders only got like 25% and most of the mods were available for free on other websites.

EDIT: The reason it would promote quality is because it would allow makers of the bigger mods to spend more time on them without feeling like they're wasting their time because they actually get something back. It would also promote more huge high-quality mods with voice actors and professional because it would allow modmakers to pay people for those services.

[–]Saldio 38 points39 points  (12 children)

Monetized mods would never promote quality; it would promote shit-tier mods and theft, which is exactly what we got within 24 hours of the steam system.

[–]Utipod 24 points25 points  (1 child)

Horse genitalia is some seriously high-quality content.

[–]EvilPictureBook 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I'm sorry, I don't see the similarity.

[–]StarManta 325 points326 points  (121 children)

Honestly.... just pull the extension, and tell Apple why. I use Safari, and have RES, and if they're dumb enough to stick to this policy I'll be happy to switch to Chrome.

[–]Chaostyphoon 127 points128 points  (16 children)

Personally I am in the same boat as you, and I will be letting Apple know exactly why I am switching browsers also.

[–]realfinkployd 56 points57 points  (90 children)

I love LOVE to switch to chrome, but I like my battery :(

[–]skyzich 37 points38 points  (3 children)

Apple should be trying to entice developers like you, rather than shunning those who are providing their users with extra features.

In no way do I mean to take away from Apple, they're a great company, but look at how Google treats those developing things for them. They literally make it as easy as possible because they realize how much it will add to a user's experience when lots of developers are creating quality content and features for them.

This seems like a poor business decision by Apple. It should be possible to illicit at least a response from them if enough people speak up.

[–]krabbenharry 89 points90 points  (5 children)

write an email to tim cook and explain it, you will maybe get a phonecall!

[–]lapistola 60 points61 points  (1 child)

I would do this. Tim has been great about stuff like this. With the following you have, you will probably at least get an email convo out of it.

[–]Ree81 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Don't let it stand. People will cause an uproar either way. If you pay the $100 you have a much lower chance of getting it back.

[–]Phylar 24 points25 points  (8 children)

It is a huge kick in the face from Apple. The funny thing about kicking is that here on Reddit we know how to do it as well.

Time to rally up. Apple doesn't need more money anyway.

[–]dsac 80 points81 points  (6 children)

June 9, 2015 - "The straw that broke the camel's back". Following massive success of its iPod, iPhone, iPad, and Macbook lineups, which resulted in a turnaround on a scale never before seen in California, Apple decided to start forcing developers - /u/honestbleeps specifically, the author of hugely popular Reddit Enhancement Suite, enjoyed by millions and built on an optional donation revenue model - to pay to develop extensions for their bottom-tier browser, Safari. The resulting outrage resulted in a 98.3% drop in APPL stock overnight, followed ultimately by a year-over-year sales drop of 99%, as Mac/iOS users ironically lined up overnight - in some cases for days - outside Apple Stores around the country to take advantage of the world-class customer service and return their formerly-loved products. This was the beginning of the end for Tim Cook, as he was never able to overcome the shame and global ridicule he faced for angering the <1% of RES users who also used Safari.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 47 points48 points  (2 children)

I can take a joke, even at my expense. I laughed.

[–]dsac 27 points28 points  (1 child)

It was more a dig at /u/Phylar 's comment (posted below for prosperity):


Time to rally up. Apple doesn't need more money anyway.

But allow me to take a moment and thank you for all your hard work, I enjoy RES in Chrome and will continue to donate to development whenever possible. Keep up the good work, and don't let The Man discourage you from being awesome.

[–]Phylar 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Oh no, I laughed too.

[–]zjbird 78 points79 points  (15 children)

No, you don't understand. Apple has the best extension APIs and you're foolish for creating something to "dumb it down" for people who should obviously be told, from Apple, what is best for them.

[–]Jacques_R_Estard 53 points54 points  (7 children)

Don't worry, I got your sarcasm.

[–]raugturi 20 points21 points  (6 children)

I'm pretty sure most everyone downvoting it did too. Except that one guy and his friend I guess.

Edit: What the hell, that went from like -7 to +2 in seconds. Maybe everyone didn't get it. Who knows. Or maybe I should get new glasses.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 68 points69 points  (5 children)

I think /r/all showed up... that sort of totally changes the dynamic of a thread on reddit.

[–]skim-milk 166 points167 points  (22 children)

This needs to be higher up instead of the comments from people talking about donating. The money isn't the issue, guys, it's the principle of the thing.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 109 points110 points  (17 children)

I do agree. Not everyone has the benefit of a huge user base like RES has. For many, it will be very hard to come up with $100/year.



Even having to do a fund raiser yearly for the $100 seems like an incredible waste of energy for this. I've left feedback with Apple even though I'm not an extension developer. If your extension is dropped from Safari, I'd just use Firefox exclusively at this point.

Edit: apple.com/feedback for other folks who want to leave feedback directly with Apple on this.

[–]dassub 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Maybe Apple needs the extra cash.


The stock was down $0.38 today

[–]AltHypo 19 points20 points  (0 children)


Really he would be paying Apple $100 for the privilege of adding value to an Apple product. Pretty ridiculous.

[–]B3yondL 255 points256 points  (44 children)

Expanding on this, does this mean all the people who have made extensions for Safari will be forced to pay $100 to join and continue publishing?

This is horrible news...

[–]honestbleeps[S] 163 points164 points  (21 children)

that's what my understanding is, yes.

I posted the entirety of the email elsewhere, and it reads like this is the case.

[–]B3yondL 140 points141 points  (17 children)

That's ridiculous. This won't be a popular opinion on here but I say don't give them the $100 since tons of other Safari devs won't. They'll see that they've shot themselves in the foot and may reverse this disgusting change.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 106 points107 points  (4 children)

my hope is to dig in my heels and do just this - I've sent them an email worded as politely but firmly as I could muster.

this is a terrible policy. I'd rather see this change for the benefit of other open source developers than rely on the generosity of others to fork over this $100 (per year) ransom to Apple.

[–]B3yondL 41 points42 points  (0 children)

Yup and honestly, it's their loss. It's a matter of ethics, not money. People are taking the time and effort to provide free extensions to make their own browser better and they're asking for membership? That's really stupid.

Sure you can raise a 100 bucks easily but that's just bending over and letting them fuck you lol.

[–]SamuelBroomby 49 points50 points  (7 children)

Safari is already lacking some great extensions, by charging $100, they're just making the problem worse.

[–]Juan_Kagawa 26 points27 points  (5 children)

Safari runs much better than chrome on my MacBook but I am constantly switching back to chrome because Safari has none of the extensions I want to use. I was hoping that more extensions would be coming to Safari but it looks like just the opposite will be occurring.

[–]thedrivingcat 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Same here. I'd like to take advantage of the speed improvements of Safari on my Macbook but Chrome has essential extensions that make my browsing experience so much better.

[–]SamuelBroomby 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The difference in battery consumption is what keeps me with Safari.

[–]mbcook 12 points13 points  (1 child)


I would be amazed if more than 2% of Safari users had extensions installed. This move won't effect the average end user in any way.

[–]KingOCarrotFlowers 55 points56 points  (16 children)

Interesting--since this appears to be the case, Apple seems to have accidentally provided incentive for Safari users to switch to other browsers.

If devs of popular extensions say "screw that, then" and drop Safari support, soon enough Safari extensions will run dry (or be paid), and eventually people will leave for other browsers, which have plenty of free extensions.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 47 points48 points  (15 children)


in my heart, this is where I'm at. However, I totally understand the power consumption complaints about Chrome, and I'd hate to be saying "screw you" to users who prefer to stick with Safari if I stopped developing RES for it.

I'm stuck in a tough spot.

[–]leetdood_shadowban 15 points16 points  (0 children)

You're not the one saying "screw you". Apple is.

[–]andrewfree 30 points31 points  (8 children)

You said Safari users were only ~1% so it's a loss for the greater good if it comes down to that. Don't bend to their will.

[–]Camsy34 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I love using Safari as my browser, have been using it since 2011 when I first got a mac. The first thing I did when I opened safari on my new macbook a few months ago was install RES. If you dropped support to safari I wouldn't blink twice moving to Chrome. To me, extensions like RES and AlienTube are worth far more than the ease of using safari as my browser.

[–]psilocybrah[🍰] 146 points147 points  (15 children)

Send Tim Cook an e-mail. Apparently that's something people can just do.

[–][deleted] 64 points65 points  (9 children)

I agree, he tends to actually read and respond to random emails. And a politely worded email from a great developer, with concerns for the smaller developers, may mean something to him.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 102 points103 points  (8 children)

if you know of any great developers who might want to send that email showing concern for me, I'm game. ;-)

[–]Family_Shoe_Business 462 points463 points  (15 children)

Almost all the comments in here are saying that OP could get $100 worth of donations very quickly, if he asks for it in the right channels.

This obviously misses the point. It annoys me that people are calling on the developer to do the extra work here, in order to keep alive a free program that uniquely benefits this minority case of users users. It's lazy and entitled.

Instead, why doesn't this minority case of users--who are lucky to have been supported by RES devs in the first place--write to Apple and explain why this policy is frustrating. Give a little back, people.


I don't think his point is even about doing the extra work - the much bigger point is that other developers who would not be as known have to pay - which as he said is absolutely ridiculous.

[–]agentlame 2 points3 points  (1 child)

People are also missing that it's $99/year. What's he gonna do, have a yearly RES telethon? Maybe have Jimbo Wales face show up at the top of every reddit page until enough people donate $99 to Apple, Inc every year?

Hell he could set the limit to $101 and get a double cheeseburger out of the deal!

Snark aside, people saying he can get $100 are correct. He could. But how do we do it for /r/toolbox? We have a userbase of maybe 10k, because it's an extremely niche extension. We have maybe 50 Safari users. Should we tell the to each fork over $2, every year, f they want to have decent battery life while using our free extension? Not very realistic. We'd have to tell them move to Chrome or don't use it.

[–]KarmaAndLies 25 points26 points  (8 children)

Legitimate question, but didn't Apple just announce that the Apple Developer Program would now have effectively a free tier? The $99/year still remains, but that only applies to publishing on the iOS app store, the free tier is for personal development.

So my question is: Have we confirmed if Safari extensions are going on the $99 tier or the free tier for Apple developer accounts? Because it appears as if Apple hasn't updated several pages to coincide with their announcement of a free tier at WWDC.

PS - I legitimately don't know the answer to this question. It might be on the $99/year tier and the OP's complaint would therefore be 100% valid. I just want to double-check this isn't all down to a misunderstand/poor communication on Apple's behalf.

PPS - If it is on the $99/year tier then they would hopefully move it to the free tier after enough feedback.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 18 points19 points  (7 children)

your question is legitimate, and I may have been misled by their email if it's just poorly worded, but here's the relevant sentence or two:

You can continue building Safari extensions and bring your creativity to other Apple platforms by joining the Apple Developer Program. Join today to provide updates to your current extensions, build new extensions, and submit your extensions to the new Safari Extensions Gallery for OS X El Capitan. You can also learn how to extend your coding skills to create innovative new apps for Apple customers around the world.

when you try to "join" - there is no option for a free tier. You must pay $99.

[–]KarmaAndLies 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Maybe I was wrong anyway, on Apple's page here. They say:

Simply sign in with your Apple ID, and turn your idea into an app that you can touch on your iPad, iPhone, or Apple Watch.

So they don't call it an Apple Developer Program account, they simply call it an Apple ID. Which is a subtle but important difference.

After re-reading that page, now I am starting to think that the $99/year will be required.

[–]TheLogicalConclusion 7 points8 points  (3 children)

This refers to being able to build apps (mainly in iOS) to distribute on YOUR device. As in one plugged into a computer with Xcode compinling and install the app on the device. That used to be only for paying devs, but is now for everyone.

Distribution on the official Apple stores is a whole different matter. There is no free tier (and there never was except for safari) for that under the new system

[–]Proditus 69 points70 points  (21 children)

This move by Apple honestly makes no sense to me. Why would they start demanding payment from developers who are working to make their platform better than the competition? What purpose does this even serve? They clearly don't need the money.

If Apple doesn't relent, I'd honestly just shove it in their face. Before your license expires, just update the extension with a notice that the Safari version will no longer be supported due to changes in Apple's developer policies, and recommend that users who wish to keep using RES switch to Chrome or Firefox. If other popular extension developers jump on board with this, Apple would probably change the policy in no time.

[–]Klaent 105 points106 points  (55 children)

You should stop making RES for Safari. They will revert it very soon when people switch browser because of missing extensions.

The browser war is pretty insane right now, Chrome, Firefox, IE, Safari. They are all fighting to be the top dog. I dont think this change will last very long, they clearly haven't thought it through

[–]F-lamp 5 points6 points  (8 children)

Opera? :(

[–]noreallyimthepope 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Isn't it just a reskin of Chrome these days?

[–]alex_dlc 91 points92 points  (8 children)

This kind of stuff is ridiculous. Apple should be paying you for making a great extension for their browser and not the other way around.

You shouldn't have to pay them at all, specially not pay them each year.

[–]redditorguy 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Honest question. Does Apple do the "bug hunt" like Google does with Chrome, etc?

[–]Nheea 6 points7 points  (4 children)


What bug hunt are you referring to?

[–]itchy_bitchy_spider 21 points22 points  (3 children)

If you find a big bug in chrome Google will pay you good money for finding it. There are whole groups who make a living off of it.


To my knowledge, Apple is one of the only [major] companies that doesn't pay programmers who find bugs in its systems, applications or services.

EDIT: Added a word.

[–]mawnch 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Many smaller companies don't pay you but Apple is one of the biggest that doesn't do this.

[–]pressbutton 50 points51 points  (5 children)

ITT: People with money and no reading comprehension


A fool and his money are soon parted.

[–]mulderc 18 points19 points  (6 children)

Can you not still distribute outside the extension gallery?

[–]honestbleeps[S] 40 points41 points  (5 children)

that hasn't been made clear yet, but they seem to have implied that in order to get my developer certificate renewed (which is required even outside the extension gallery) I will probably need to pay the $100.

if I'm wrong, I'll be happy to be wrong.

[–]superbungalow 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Looks like you're right:

From the developer documentation:

Important: To develop extensions for Safari, you need to sign up for the Apple Developer Program online at http://developer.apple.com. After joining the program, you must obtain a signed certificate in order for your extension to work; the extension will not load until your certificate is installed. To request a certificate, follow the “Certificates, Identifiers & Profiles” link from the Developer Member Center homepage.

[–]plorraine 19 points20 points  (46 children)

Is there a rationale given for the charge ? ie something new like code signing? Thanks for your good work by the way.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 48 points49 points  (41 children)

no rationale at all. here's the entire email:

Dear Developer,

As a creator of Safari Extensions, you’ve helped enrich the browsing experience for Safari users by taking advantage of development resources through the Safari Developer Program. This program is now part of the new Apple Developer Program, which combines everything you need to develop, distribute, and manage your apps on all Apple platforms.

Your existing Safari Developer Program membership will remain active until July 8, 2015 and your Safari extensions will continue to work for existing users.


Learn more

nothing in there suggests any value add for me - and it'd have to be a LOT of value since I don't do iOS dev or anything else other than provide a free extension that I can't reasonably expect to be compensated for unless it's out of the goodness of people's hearts (though people in this thread have been quite generous with their offers, and that's much appreciated)

they also seem to pretty strongly imply this is a "must":

Join today to provide updates to your current extensions


[–]flywithme666 82 points83 points  (3 children)

"thank you for enriching safari and thus helping make us richer, now please cough up money so you can continue enriching the thing making us rich.

Pay up,



"Fuck you


[–]LineNoise 5 points6 points  (1 child)

The only way I can see if making sense is if they intend to unify the desktop and iOS9 Safari Extensions that are mentioned very briefly in the iOS9 pre release notes.


If the Safari extensions really hang off an application it kinda makes sense but then, what about all the extensions I don't need an app for?


I think their rationale is their value add is their extension gallery. Once you get enough exposure and enough users you're expected to sell out for millions of dollars like for example, adblock plus.

Silicon valley types value userbase and exposure as being valuable to the tune of millions or in fact billions of dollars. So to some boardroom creature you should be thanking them they're only charging you a hundred bucks in exchange for giving you potentially millions of users worth of exposure.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I guess I see where you're coming from, but RES is never going to sell out... both because I refuse to do so, and because it's a website-specific addon.


Isn't it because they combined all the Dev programs into one now, so the Mac and iOS that were once seperate for $99 each per year are now combine to one for $99 a year. And they added the previously free safari extension program to that.

[–]eeveeayen12 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This is exactly it. I was super excited about the news actually (saves me $100 developing for iOS and Mac) but since no one pays for safari extensions, they should stay completely separate! Can you even make money off extensions?

[–]vkevlar 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes, this seems to be it, the safari dev program got rolled up with everything else, and they didn't remember that it was free to make extensions previously.

[–]TBoneTheOriginal[M] 383 points384 points  (31 children)

Listen... we don't normally allow self promotion outside of our Saturday event thread.

But you know what?

Screw that rule this one time. We're making an exception.

Most of us use Safari RES, and we all use it for free. If you want to start a new thread asking for donations to keep RES going, please do so. Not only that, but I will talk to the other mods about sticky-ing the thread for a day.

Create a thread asking specifically for donations, and let me know. I'll make sure to get it some attention.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 279 points280 points  (26 children)

This really wasn't meant to be self promotion. My hope is that other open source developers will hear about this and contact Apple to change this policy.

I will update my selftext above to reflect that more clearly.

[–]TBoneTheOriginal[M] 64 points65 points  (25 children)

I was referring to a potential new thread asking for donations. I'm just giving you the green light. PLEASE do it.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 202 points203 points  (24 children)

I really don't feel right asking for money - which probably explains why so many people don't realize we have a donate page on the website and right in the RES console, too...

[–]TBoneTheOriginal[M] 52 points53 points  (18 children)

Trust me, most of us would be a lot more upset if RES went away. I see nothing wrong with directing people to your donate page.

It's ultimately up to you, of course. But I think if you were to take a vote, most people would prefer to donate rather than RES go away.

[–]HeathenCyclist 81 points82 points  (9 children)

If it has to come to that, so be it, but I think /r/Apple would, could, and should prefer to lobby Apple for the superior solution: removing this additional barrier to entry for extension developers - it just guarantees that the cool new extensions will be limited to Chrome and Firefox. ಠ_ಠ

[–]doublsh0t 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It doesn't appear that he will.../r/apple SUPER PAC TIME!

I can help file the FEC Form 1.

[–]mediuqrepmes 557 points558 points  (97 children)

I guarantee you can raise $100 from Safari RES users, probably by the end of the day.

As an aside, assuming you're the person behind RES, THANK YOU.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 543 points544 points  (84 children)

I'm the original creator - but now I'm just one of several who do the work. the rest don't get enough credit especially lately because I've been too busy with work to do much.

/u/andytuba, above all else, has shouldered a ton of load and deserves a lot of appreciation, but I'm leaving out the work of many.

[–][deleted] 56 points57 points  (54 children)

Throw up a paypal donation for the dev program. We will be able to raise enough for your whole team, like OP said, probably before the day is over.

And yeah it sucks to pay to be a part of the developer program when you don't charge for the work--I published a couple of free apps without ads on iOS as well, but people love you guys and will be more than happy to pay.

That said, this saves a lot of developers who had been paying for both iOS AND OS X, since now they only have to pay half.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 287 points288 points  (52 children)

to be honest I'd rather convince Apple that this is a terrible idea and is hurtful to developers of free software...

we have a donate page on the website as well as in the settings console, and we try not to be any more "in your face" about donating than that, because we don't want to be spammy/annoying.

[–]tdvx 109 points110 points  (34 children)

You're much more likely to get $100 in donations than convince apple to change their mind on something.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 574 points575 points  (16 children)

you're probably right, but I feel like I should still try, for the good of open source.

[–]bigoldgeek 118 points119 points  (13 children)

By Stallman's Hammer, I wish I could upvote this 100x

[–]HeathenCyclist 44 points45 points  (11 children)

Except he's right, and Apple are wrong. If enough people explain it them, they WILL change.

Hey, Apple, I don't want to go back to Chrome to get an extensible browser. If you charge devs to make extensions, they'll only develop them for free browsers.

[–]berserke 9 points10 points  (7 children)

The last time I ported (edit:) published my private modified version of Adblock to Chrome, I had to pay $5. It's not $100, sure, but it certainly wasn't free.

[–]Slinkwyde 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Was that $5 one time, $5 per update, or $5 per subscription period? OP is saying Safari extensions now cost developers $100 a year to publish.

[–]berserke 15 points16 points  (3 children)

IIRC it was a one-time fee (for any and all apps I publish), and the subtext read something like: "we use this one-time fee to ensure that developers who publish apps to the Chrome App Store are serious about the platform and are not distributing malware".

Mind you, at one point you could simply load whatever you wanted in Chrome without requiring the App Store, but that's a whole other discussion.

[–]jimbo831 13 points14 points  (1 child)

That actually sounds reasonable to me.

[–]Ant1mat3r 7 points8 points  (0 children)

RES is the best thing to happen to reddit since well ... reddit! I'd gladly throw some coin your way so you can continue to support this, and my suspicion is that a LOT of others would as well.

Most of all, THANK YOU for your hard work that I benefit from every single day!

Edit - I am also complaining to Apple, because as you stated, just because RES may not have trouble with the funds, other small developers certainly will.


I've donated $50 (after PayPal taxes) right now. I don't care if /u/honestbleeps ends up having to pay Apple or not. It's great software.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 57 points58 points  (0 children)

wow, that's really appreciated and totally wasn't necessary, thank you very much.

[–]Gareth321 8 points9 points  (1 child)

While I'm sure he can, I don't think the amount is the issue.

[–]creakybulks 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yeah. Great job missing the entire point of the post.

"Hey, Apple wants to extort $100 bucks from me for producing an extention that isn't even published on their website. This is a problem because..."

"Apple wants even more of my money? No problem! Here's $1000!"

[–]Fogbot3 23 points24 points  (4 children)

Put up a notice to everyone using it on Safari to switch to Chrome or Firefox, then pull it from Safari

[–]justShipIt_LOL 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I've often wondered what modern medicine would be like if everything was open source. I'd pay your $100 even though I have a windows phone simply because you "get it" when it comes to the FOSS community.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I do appreciate the sentiment! My hope (unrealistic as it may be) is to convince Apple to not require this for extension devs.

[–]therealhlmencken 11 points12 points  (0 children)

You could pay a hundred dollars and then turn the extension into a banner that advertises chrome

[–]EnigmaticPhilomath 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's ludicrous. Another point: If you/other developers give in and pay the $100, that just encourages Apple/other companies to continue such practices. Vote with your money, folks.


What a great way to make Safari's 5% market share go even further down.

[–]ryancarty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah this is bullshit. Th amount of useful safari extensions is pathetic compared to Chrome Extensions. Its one of the reasons I use Chrome (even if it does drain my battery). By adding this charge you are just going to drive the few creators away. It's a shame.


That sucks. I learned javascript just to make small extensions that make my browsing experience smoother. I'm not paying $100 just for that.

Now I am really hopeful Google gets Chrome's power usage down.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

well if you want to start making your extensions work on multiple browsers, I wrote a framework for that.

It hasn't been touched in a while and probably needs some updates, but it's a good start at least. here it is, it's called BabelExt


From what I can tell from the email

Dear Developer,




Learn more

It's not as evil as what people are making out. Apple are simply combining their development platforms, iOS, Mac and Web. From what I understand, you previously needed a $100 developer license to publish iOS apps on its App Store, but then you would need to pay another $100 fee to publish certified Mac apps on the OS X App Store. It seems, for the vast majority of developers, they're getting a half price for a far better audience deal. Of course, this makes it difficult for Safari developers, because they now need to pay a fee to what they've had for free.

To me, there seems to be only a few options, multiple choice obviously.

1) Complain to Apple, tell them that Safari is not a platform and plugins are not apps for that platform. And that even if they were, RES in particular is not an app, but an on-site-modifier. (I know talking about RES in particular isn't the point, but all you need to do is stick your foot in the door, and then perhaps they'll listen.)

2) Boycott development for Safari.

3) Pay the fee and perhaps exploit the benefits that come with it, like access to the iOS and Mac OS App Stores. Even if you find no use for them now, perhaps you might in the future. Perhaps, instead of an injected script, like how it works with Chrome, you may create a Reddit browser.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

your summary is correct. For people who want to dev for iOS and OSX, this consolidation probably works out nicely.

For people like me who only do extension dev and likely won't ever touch iOS/OSX app dev, this consolidation is basically a big poop sandwich.

[–]Aqua_lung 8 points9 points  (3 children)

I myself have seen the $100 subscription as an obstacle when trying to just do some serious testing.

[–]redditorguy 16 points17 points  (8 children)

The biggest thing that sticks out to me here is everyone saying:

Here take some money.

This $ goes to Apple Inc. You don't think they have enough? This post is about the principle - if you read it at all. That and Apple's BS charge.


[–]honestbleeps[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

while I do agree with you, I also can appreciate that people are just trying to do what's within their ability to help. that said, I'm not replying to posts like that with the link to our donate page because my purpose for posting was to raise awareness, not solicit money...

[–]flossdaily 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Here's an idea:

Stop supporting Safari.

Apple will reverse the policy when they see people flocking to chrome and firefox.

[–]rev087 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'm on the same boat. I'm the author of the ng-inspector extension, and as long as users can still download and install directly from the extension site, I'll probably just ignore their extension gallery. Which is a shame because my [free, open source] extension has been there for a while, and now I'm being kicked out.

Charging $100 will simply limit the submissions to their gallery to for-profit extensions.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

unfortunately it looks like we may not be able to distribute on our own, either, unless their email was just worded in a confusing way. The email implies that even to keep updating your extension, you must join.

do you have more concrete information that I'm missing?

[–]InterWebber0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just submitted my feedback. I want to see an update on this so let us know!

[–]Rurikar 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Mad respect for your ideals man. I'd have honestly just paid the 100 bucks, but I admire you sticking to your guns on this one.

[–]phr0ze 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This may have a chilling effect on Safari getting new extensions. I get what you are saying. $100 isn't much but its enough to keep new extensions out of safari and on firefox/chrome.

[–]jokoon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll never understand how making the developers pay is a good strategy. How the fuck do you attract developers this way ?

[–]Codehawker 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I am developing a free extension too for Firefox, SeaMonkey, Chrome, Opera and Safari. Now Apple wants to charge me for the same service that the competitors provide for free. There are only about 500 extensions in the current gallery so Apple should do something to encourage people to develop for them. I have sent a complaint to Apple Developer Program Support but the answer just repeated that I will have to pay them.

[–]snaeji 21 points22 points  (2 children)

People are talking to much about how they would pay, and not how wrong and infuriating it is that Apple wants to charge you! Are we just so use to this kind of behaviour from Apple that we just don't act up ?

[–]funkybassmannick 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I just want to fill your inbox with one more compliment. Your extension is amazing. Though I've never had gold, it gives me lots of great gold-like features, which is awesome. Perhaps if you did an online signature campaign? That might be the quickest and easiest way to raise awareness.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I really do appreciate the kind words - means a lot.

RES actually goes out of its way to not provide the same features as gold, so as not to discourage people from buying gold!

Here, I'll show you how nicely they work together. Now you have gold. Using RES's "navigate by: ... new" is awesome with gold.

[–]funkybassmannick 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wow! Thanks! Trying out your features now.

And the "gold feature" I was talking about was filtering out subs from /r/all, and also easily switching between accounts. If there was a way to do those without RES or gold, I never found them.

[–]vitamintrees 77 points78 points  (41 children)

I'll donate $5 right now to keep RES for safari alive. Anything to keep me from switching back to chrome on my Mac.

[–]TheUsher 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Wow, that's some bullshit.

[–]Dog_the_pug 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Pretty simple, don't submit it and focus on larger audiences.

[–]HeartyBeast 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Could you provide us with a copy of the e-mail? Does Apple provide any rationale? What happens if you don't pay? Is Safari only going to load signed extensions or something?


I didn't know Safari has extensions. That's the program I use to download Chrome.


Stuff like this makes me consider heading back to Google Chrome for a bit. Bad move on Apples' part. Developers making enhancements for their software that sway users into in fact using safari over other browsers, and they want to charge those developers. Sad

[–]fearlessliter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am always baffled by stuff like this. Apple's products generate so much activity in the developer community, and then they do things that are counter to why their markets have become popular.

If they want to make money, they should offer features or benefits of some kind, and keep a free tier.

This is biting the hand that feeds.

[–]hansolo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I sent Don Melton a tweet. I know he's retired - maybe he'll nudge someone at Apple to do something.

[–]Freddit- 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I think what you're doing is great, ideologically.

But as someone who doesn't use Safari, this raises a different question for me.

How many people actually use Safari? There are loads of browsers out there, and Safari is far from the best. I'm not bashing, I'm getting at the question, "How does Apple justify charging these fees for a browser that has a microscopic market share when all of their competitors (inferior and superior) do not charge these fees?"

[–]keiyakins 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just drop support for Safari, Apple doesn't want their browser to be usable apparently.


RES works on Safari?

Does it work on Chrome for Android? Here I've been paying for an app to get good usage...

[–]honestbleeps[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

sorry, no RES on Android yet... they don't support the same extensions as their desktop counterparts.

[–]powerje 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I feel the same way about iOS apps I want to make and release in my personal time. I do iOS development at work, but now and then I get an idea and just want to create something that I would find useful. I really don't feel like charging people either.

I wish Apple would allow me to release free, ad-free apps without paying $100/yr.

[–]JonathanBowen 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I use Reddit Enhancement Suite on Safari.

[–]Juts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Immediately remove it, and redirect everyone that's upset to apple support. Maybe you can budge their heads out of their asses.

[–]radd_it 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Apple has a history of wanting you to pay them for the privilege of making software for their things.

I was going to convert my new Chrome extension to Safari (as I hear it's easy) but knowing Apple is going to charge for it, that's not going to happen. Thanks Apple (and you, /u/honestbleeps) for saving me that time!

That reminds me, I need to tweak some things in the RES code. :)

[–]Katnipz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The only reason Smart Phones are as amazing as they are are because of the apps developers create and yet apple tries to strangle the very heart that beats to keep their products alive.

[–]brcguy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You should drop safari from the list of browsers you make RES for, no? Less than 1% of users can install chrome or Firefox.

Screw apple for being so greedy. The company is so unbelievably rich they have some balls doing this. Let em lose some more market share.

[–]Rider82 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Could someone with the right expertise please draft an e-mail/feedback form we can all generally copy pasta to send in. Obviously make your own modifications, but a frame work... please!

[–]tortus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Safari looks to be about 5% of the market share. You'd think Apple would be doing things to help improve that marketshare.

If it was me I'd tell them to go to hell, and drop Safari support. Sure you'll upset some RES users, but Apple is way out of line here.

[–]hakannakah1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So now we'll have even LESS extensions now. Great.

[–]atb1183 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Recommendation: take your stuff elsewhere. Go to platform that welcomes you rather than milk money and provide no value. Especially given such tiny marketshare.

Put out a message to your users to move to better platforms that is better supported.

[–]BuckRowdy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Do they really need the money? They're the richest company on the history of business. What is this really about?

[–]Kirihuna 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I'll catch flak for this, but personally, I think that Apple should charge $100. But with a caveat: only charge if you're going to use the beta software.

So if you made it for the new Safari on Mac OS X or making it for iOS 9, etc.

But if you're making it for current Safari / Mac OS X / iOS 8, the shouldn't be charged.

[–]honestbleeps[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I don't have any issue with people having a differing opinion ... but you don't say why you feel this way.

Why should they charge $100 so I can develop extensions for the latest Safari - a browser with just 5% market share, mind you?

[–]snoozin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Don't mean this in any combative way, but have you seen this documentation from apple? https://beta-extensions.apple.com

It looks like the extensions gallery will undergo some changes to make it similar to the app store, where Apple will review and host the extensions and you will also be able to provide updates through the gallery. It seems the mac is currently going through an iOS-effication transition, with OS X adopting rootless features, which limit what the admin can do to extensions. Preventing things like (Conduit, etc.) and other junk extensions from installing themselves without a certificate from apple.

[–]vomibra 2 points3 points  (2 children)

It always pissed me off that I had to pay Apple $100/yr to run my code on "my" iPhone. It's not the money, it's the principle.

Apple has never cared about open source developers. I doubt they will change their position. Just abandon your Safari extension.

[–]aeberbach 3 points4 points  (1 child)

And now you don't. One change just announced at WWDC is there no longer a need to have a developer account to download Xcode and run an app on "your" phone. (Why the quotes, did you steal it?)

But if you want to put it in the store and get all your accounting and stats and hosting handled, yeah you pay. As we all know that is $100 and 30% of revenue.

Another change is that now there is just one kind of developer membership and it costs $100. There is no longer a Mac OS developer membership costing $100 and another iOS membership costing $100 and no longer a Safari membership. A developer targeting Mac OS and iOS previously paid $200, now they paid $100.

So there are winners and losers. Personally I know of precisely one Safari developer - the original poster - and dozens if not hundreds of iOS and Mac developers. Many paid $200 to target both OS X and iOS. All will now pay $100.

Anyone claiming that Apple is somehow after money with this change is delusional.

[–]BunjiX 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's like playing a game. Now all of a sudden Apple changed the rules of the game. The only winning move with that kind of people is not playing the game.

[–]lurk_n_throw 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't see them keeping this requirement for extensions.

I like that the wrapped up all of the developer programs together for one cost (used to be separate registrations/costs for each), but a free-tier is needed for more than just students/educators.


So this means you'll have more free time to work on an extension for Edge when that releases, right?

[–]blazicekj 2 points3 points  (0 children)

God damn, I knew they would end up doing something dumb. The keynote just looked almost too good. Given how the vast majority of extensions is open-source / free, this is just ridiculous. Good luck man!


Because the multi billion dollar company needs they're $100, that's just apple for you

[–]gilbes 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Just stop developing the extension. Refuse to pay Apple for your time and talent to create software that ultimately helps Apple sell more of its products.

Do not accept donations. Do not give in to their extortion.

Apple makes shit loads of money selling slick looking but poorly designed hardware (ask any repair tech) running an OS that turns the most open option (FreeBSD) to the most closed OS out there.

Apple is already raping their customers, now they want developers to pay for the pleasure of getting raped.

Stick with Apple, switch to other platforms, do what you want as I could not care less. Just do not have any money sent to Apple for your efforts.

[–]SteveMallam 2 points3 points  (0 children)

General feedback left.
The character count on their edit box is a bit tight though!

[–]svmk1987 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is one of the reasons why I am not a big fan of apple. The entire ecosystem, for consumers to developers, is closed out to people to shell out money. You can see this in their device app ecosystem too.

OP will get a $100 easily for this, but that's not the point. Should they be restricting their extension gallery to only devs who can shell out a $100 every year? Not all amateur and hobby devs can do that, and they also have a lot to contribute.

[–]dakta 2 points3 points  (6 children)

I understand the cause of this change: the consolidation of all of the developer programs. It makes perfect sense for the two real platforms, iOS and OS X, not to have two separate programs. And while they're at it, I bet it sounded like a great idea to include Safari in there as well.

The problem is that someone here clearly didn't actually think this through. The Safari Extension developer program has always been completely free. I've been a registered Safari developer for a while, and I've never had to pay a cent for it. Which is great, because I make nothing off of the extensions (Reddit Moderator Toolbox) that I distribute. The developer program is linked to my iTunes account with credit card on file, clearly identifying me as who I claim to be.

There is no reason that browser extension development should be a paid thing. Unless they're planning to open an Extension Store, and make it all work like the App Store (which I think is phenomenally stupid because there is not, has never been, and will never be a meaningful market for extensions to support a paid platform), this is not even a justifiable move. Extension auto-update has always been third-party. Same as distribution. You sign the extension with a cryptographic key provided with your enrollment in the developer program to ensure the security of the extension's contents. Apple was the first of the browser vendors to require signed extensions, and now it seems Google requires them for Chrome and Firefox has their own thing which even includes a human review process for updates distributed through their marketplace. But Safari Extensions are not distributed by Apple. They're distributed by the developer, as a simple file download, and auto-updates are specified by a URL in the extension's configuration. Apple has zero overhead in this process.

I know you said the money is a non-issue for you, but I still feel the need to offer my assistance with the developer program if you're interested. I have a registered organization in the Apple Developer Program for iOS, which with this change will be enrolled in the Safari program. I previously used my personal account to distribute Toolbox for Safari, but I'll probably move the key to the organization. I'd be more than happy to help you distribute RES as a small token of my for you and your team's fantastic help to us.

[–]redacted187 2 points3 points  (10 children)

Windows user, from /r/all here. Why don't people just use chrome? It's on OSX, right?