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State Schools Must Promote Appenticeships

Discussion in 'Education news' started by JosieWhitehead, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    A new law ensuring that state schools promote apprenticeships as much as university is on the cards. "Ministers believe some schools are unwilling to recommend apprenticeships or other technical and professional routes to any but the lowest-achieving pupils - effectively creating a two-tier system of careers advice." Any comments?
  2. applecrumblebumble

    applecrumblebumble Lead commenter

    Agree part of the careers advice, oh yes did away with careers advisor 3 years ago - probably an unpaid CPD opportunity for some unsuspecting member of staff to support this.
    Am I right in thinking BTECs and other vocational routes in education will not be part of league tables in the future so how is that going to help.
    Yoda- likes this.
  3. lizziescat

    lizziescat Star commenter

    Complete lack of any thinking (not even any 'unjoined up' thinking)
    phlogiston and Yoda- like this.
  4. lizziescat

    lizziescat Star commenter

    Key questions which spring to mind (and it's Sunday so the brain is having a day off!)

    • What is their evidence for such a statement about what schools do.
    • What happened to the trained , skilled careers advice of the careers service? (oh it's back to amateurs again -so they don't really care whether it's done or not)
    • When are cabinet ministers /political interns/ top civil servants going to be recruited from non-university (and especially Oxbridge) backgrounds?
    • Do these comments apply to the public/private school sector? How many apprenticeships did Eton students take up last year?
    Flere-Imsaho and JL48 like this.
  5. itgeek

    itgeek New commenter

    A clear understanding of how apprenticeships operate must be the first thing that is taught. A reasonably well informed 16 year old should then be perfectly capable of deciding if it is for them. I doubt if many reasonable 6th forms have much to fear.
  6. applecrumblebumble

    applecrumblebumble Lead commenter

    Who is going to give our 16 year olds professional advice? Ever so long as we have not had LEAs many academies have stopped using the careers advice service and effectively it does not exist. I am all for apprenticeships and I am keen to see a version of the old training levy being applied to pay for it. Maybe some of this money could find its way into schools. A young person needs sound professional advice on the different pathways his/her life might go - not left up to them to read some leaflet about apprenticeships.
  7. JosieWhitehead

    JosieWhitehead Star commenter

    The question is: How many teachers in schools have actually studied in Colleges of Further Education, or studied skills to qualify them for any work outside of a school, or done apprenticeships or worked in the world of business or commerce? I was a well experienced and qualified FE teacher (years ago) who was asked to help in a local school because their teacher had died, and their children were working for examinations that summer. I asked the question: "Do I have to sign any form etc in order to be paid - or what?" The Headmaster said: "Well, you can't expect to be paid the same rate as teachers here as you come from a College of Further Education and therefore aren't qualified the same." I almost died, and, believe it or not, I had to prove that I had done the same training at a teacher training college and had my Certificate in Education etc before I was paid properly and he remarked: "If we'd known you were a qualified teacher, then we wouldn't have asked you to come here. We weren't expecting to have to pay you the same rate." The next term, back at college, I was told by one of my students that her Mum had replaced me at that school, and the other college teachers told me that she'd attended the college the year before and was one of their least qualified students, hm hm hm. Surely things must have changed since those awful days. Not only do FE teachers need years of studying their subjects, but they also have to bring in an enormous amount of practical experience with them as well as the highest qualifications in order to do their teacher training courses.
  8. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    Even those of us who have qualified through ONC/HNC/GRSC part time route on a day release basis through industry and had industrial experience before teaching habe very little experience relative to today's job market. The only experience that allows me to talk about apprenticeships is that my youngest (now 26) did one when he left school. Our school still pays a careers advisor to come in and work with our yr 10s and yr 11s but her hours are limited.
  9. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    Why make it a law?
  10. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    to make politicians feel better about themselves.

    Plus it's cheaper than actually putting any resources into vocational ed.
  11. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    How about another 'law'- "Governments must fund and provide a professional careers service"?
    emerald52, Yoda- and JL48 like this.
  12. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    Teachers to be responsible for everything by law is cheaper!

    "State Schools Must Promote Appenticeships"

    One of Nicky Morgan's ideas?
    Or is it Nicky Morgan's one idea?

    Something else to grind us down.

  13. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Am away from home, so dobbing words out on tablet - answer will not be as considered as I'd like.

    Gove said schools had to get as many going to university as possible and threatened another league table - now Morgan reckons schools are being "snobbish", according to the Independent.

    When, I wonder, will they realise that the Ebacc has made the curriculum too academic and forced out vocational and technological subjects?

    Which is exactly what happened a couple of years after the original national curriculum was introduced...
  14. BigFrankEM

    BigFrankEM Established commenter

    Easy peasy Japaneesy:
    • State school kids go to FE College
    • Private (& "Public") School students go to University.

    "It's a bit like gravity; a sort of law of nature, in'nit?"
    emerald52 likes this.
  15. applecrumblebumble

    applecrumblebumble Lead commenter

    Spot on Big Frank - feel sorry that we are in that situation that this maybe dumped on classroom teachers and if things go wrong another thing to be slated for.
    There is nothing wrong with young people wanting to follow a vocational route but lets make the advice they get sound, accurate and fitting their needs.
  16. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    The impression I got from the article in the Independent was that they were talking about post 18 apprenticeships rather than post 16.The comments about teachers knowing who provides them still stand. The school I know best tries to give kids information about apprenticeships.
  17. pixiewixiepixie

    pixiewixiepixie Occasional commenter

    Apprenticeships must involve training for four or five years, to learn a real high-skill job such as plumbing, carpentry, electrician etc.

    It must be completely distinct from low-skill "apprenticeships" such as receptionist, shop assistant, tyre fitter etc.

    Labour's dumb dumbing down plan 15 - 20 years ago, which made any vocational route an "apprenticeship" regardless of what was involved is the root of the mess we have now. Nearly a million unemployed young people and we have to get plumbers and electricians, fitters and engineers from Eastern Europe! Thanks Morris & Balls!
  18. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    Ha ha! Best of luck! Last year I advised one of my 6th form tutor group that ghey could apply for a higher apprenticeship in the technical subject they were considering for university. The employer would pay for the degree and a job guaranteed. I was harangued by the mother for half an hour - I was implying they were too poor to send their child to Uni, how dare I suggest it!
    Yoda- and yodaami2 like this.
  19. yodaami2

    yodaami2 Lead commenter

    Oh god, as if we don't already. I apologise, not read the whole thread if I am repeating others. The Tories making a law for something that exists already ( gimme a job). It's scary that " they" don't know what's happening in schools; ofsted and government really need to talk! Of course the pupils know they exist and they are " promoted" as much as fe/uni. Also they need to consider that careers advice given by teachers, many of whom went from studenthood to teaching may not be the best arbiters; can I suggest that a dedicated careers service might be an idea to consider. LOL!
  20. gbgas001

    gbgas001 New commenter

    Hi Everyone

    I am currently conducting research into the role of the Schools Careers Adviser and their role towards the construction industry. I have read a few other threads related to this topic and if it is OK I would like to find some information through a small survey.
    As you will be aware there is a large skills shortage in the construction industry and with a GDP of 6.9% and 2.9 million workers it has a large effect on the state of the nation.

    If you give careers advice at any level and you would not mind taking part in the survey please click on the link (or copy and paste into your browser) I am looking for a wide and varied participation.


    Thank you

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