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Found 172 results

  2. I previously theorized that Adonalsium’s Shattering caused the powers of creation to “choose” the Shard each Vessel became based on the Vessel’s dominant psychological trait. Our new understanding of Connections IMO confirms the theory: the power chose the Shard based on each Vessel’s Connection with that aspect of Adonalsium. Evidence: 1. The biggest objection to my initial theory was Ati. How could such a “kind and generous man” have become Ruin the Destroyer? But Preservation tells Kelsier in M:SH that "Everything passes, nothing is eternal. That is what Ati always claimed... [emphasis added]” Preservation here refers to Ati, not Ruin. That suggests that Ati always had an affinity for Ruin, even before his ascension, as a matter of deep-seated personal belief. He was Connected to Ruin despite his personality. 2. Brandon says that different Vessels would have had different mandates (intents). That suggests the mandates were based on something personal to each Vessel. 3. Kelsier had difficulties holding Preservation because he was so Connected to Ruin. As a “destroyer,” Kelsier has few equals: see you later, TFE… I use the word “mandate” instead of “intent” because that’s the word Sazed himself uses. In HoA, Sazed describes the mists as acting with a "vague will of their own tied to the mandate of their abilities" (HoA, Chapter 79, emphasis added.) I think that’s what we mean when we talk about a Shard’s “intent,” a word coined by Chaos in an excellent post some years ago. I prefer the textual word. Does this sound right?
  3. Foreword: I, evidently, have the worst memory ever because half of the terms used I use because I have forgotten the actual word Sanderson uses. "Attuned", etc. is one such term. <- not anymore it isn't. So, one of the (admittedly few) WoB I know of states that the weapon used to kill Adonalsium and make the 16 shards does not exist as it once did, or something to that effect. My proposition, although it may have already been disproved in a different WoB or another source, is that Hoid is the weapon. A theory I saw recently suggested that Adonalsium was not a great being to kill in terms of difficulty, because he, like Preservation in Mistborn, added parts of himself to everything, severely weakening himself in the process. From BoM we know that Feruchemical stores attune to one's soul have an Identity specific to the Feruchemist, but also that they can be specially made (IIRC only by full Feruchemists) to not be attuned to anyone. This makes such items, like the titular Bands of Mourning, valuable weapons and artefacts, because anyone, Feruchemist or otherwise, can use them. The way I think Hoid could be the weapon used to kill Adonalsium is if he has nothing in his soul, like one of the Bands, which makes him attuned to a specific thing. Therefore, in theory, Adonalsium might not be able to have any control over his actions and so Hoid, or whatever he was before killing him, could do what he likes. This would explain why Hoid did not gain a Shard while the others did (possibly). It had nothing to bind to him with, because he is like a blank sheet of paper. Endnote: before anyone questions a detail I might end up contradicting, I mostly posted this to see what the community would come up with, and it seemed more appropriate to add some reasoning instead of having a 2 line post quoting the WoB then saying "'Oi d'ya think it's Hoid?". That said I hope I don't contradict myself as it wouldn't exactly add any credibility to the theory. EDIT 2(?): I have no clue how this affects it, but in WoK I stumbled upon this most interesting of quotes regarding Hoid's beginning which I hadn't considered: when he speaks to Kaladin on the Shattered plains (or rather, plays to Kaladin for a large portion of the meeting) he says that he "began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page. That was another thing I stole [at this point he is talking about the fact he is a thief]. Myself."
  4. One of my brothers recommended Sandersons work to me about a year and half ago and I fell completely in love with it. I love pretty much everyone one of his writings and I have a hard time going and reading any different authors. Anyway I have been on 17th shrad quite frequently to solve arguments me and my family get into about the many different things going on his Brandons books, and i figured it was time that i actually signed up instead of just skulking through. I'm excited to be part of the community and have some awesome discussions with other Sanderson fans. TLDR: I'm a Sanderson fan and happy to be part of the 17th shard. Right out of the gate I have a question I was wondering if any of you could speculate or answer for me. When Adonalsium was shatterd into 16 pieces was it predetermined who would get what shards or was it based on personalities?
  5. This is probably more appropriate for the Cosmere Theories board, but because I am relying on Secret Histories information, let's keep it here for the time being. So, I have a thought and a question. * We know that taking up a Shard required Connection to the Shard. * We now can parse, from Khriss's comment about the Shattering, and a very recent WoB stating that Adonalsium was Shattered because the Holder was killed, that the actual moment of Shattering probably looked very close to the "inverse" of the scene of Sazed's Ascension. In the latter case, Sazed was alone and there were two power sources which he, having Connection to both, was able to take up. * In the former case, I suspect that a similar progression occured: after being killed, Adonalsium Holder dropped a body; 16 people should have been *in the direct proximity* of the drop, they would have done the same thing Sazed did: stepped in and attempted to take up the power. As each of them had Connection to a specific aspect/Intent of the Power, they took that Intent and became a Shard. This begs the question: if a Shardholder (like Leras or Ati) dies, drops a body and TWO PEOPLE attempt to take up the power, will the Shard be split into "SubShards" with different "SubIntents"? Or, in general, what would happen? As an example: can I train two people to be (a) very active and be ( passively-aggressively hateful, kill Odium (heh!), and have Person (a) become Wrath and Person ( become Passive Aggression. (these are all examples - I actually do not know what Odium is made out of)?
  6. Totally random and crazy theory for me, but here goes... What if we have been looking at this the wrong way, and the Death of Adonalsium wasn't the big bad event we all think it is? What if Rayse is, for all intent and purpose, the 'good guy', trying to do his best to avoid Adonalsium being reformed, and this is why he is so terrified of Sazed? As the Vessel of two Shards, he is the closest being to Adonalsium since the Shattering... Break it apart!
  7. There is an opposing force to Adonalsium, and at the midnight release, I asked Brandon to write in my book something about that opposing force. He wrote: "There was a weapon created by the opposition of Adonalsium." Well, that's terrifying. What if it is still around? Someone should ask Brandon if Odium knows of this weapon. Also! I asked Peter at the release what was the Shadows for Silence planet name. It is Threnody. I'm sorry for the debacle that was the release--at least in getting theoretical content. We do have a recording of the Q&A and reading, but the audio could suck. We... misplaced recorders. Ahem. But at least this is something. That is all from my end regarding the midnight release.
  8. Hi all, just trying to get my first theory out for critiques and thoughts! So, just finished Shadows of Self, and the big question is, what shard did that new metal come from? I've seen a lot of theories out there, but I am thoroughly convinced that it is not Odium as many have thought, but Autonomy working WITH Odium. And here's why: I believe for several reasons that the shard is not Odium Odium is very busy on Roshar as is. Odium is terrified of Harmony, so would not be likely to challenge him in person, especially not on Harmony's own world. However, he might send a friend to do the dirty work. Brandon has said that not only could Odium work with other shards, but that he likely has. Odium would be willing to work with others and probably has. Paalm's entire purpose is to set herself and everyone else free of Harmony's influence and control. If another shard was controlling her, it would logically follow that she would reject this control as well. Unless that shard was influencing her towards "freedom".... So, if it's not Odium, who else could it be? My thoughts point to none other than our friend Bavadin, holding the shard Autonomy. Why? Well, It seems that Rayse (Odium) and Bavadin may be working together. This theory is not hugely supported, but the writer of The Letter did mention them and his grudges against them respectively in the same sentence, pointing to the fact that they may have more connection than we know. A full theory as to why Rayse and Bavadin may be working together was posted by Spire and can be found here. Bavadin's shard is Autonomy, or "freedom from external control or influence; independence." This seems to be exactly what Paalm is fighting for the whole time. What other shard's influence could one who so clearly wants freedom have fallen under save freedom itself? Autonomy may be fighting for a world free from Shardic influence. Who else better to ally himself with then, than someone who is actively splintering shards? The biggest argument I have seen against Autonomy being the unknown shard is the creatures that Paalm creates through Hemalurgy, likely with the same metal that is in her. This seems to be against Autonomy's intent, taking away the people affected's freedom to choose. However, we know that human sentience on Scadrial comes directly from Preservation. I postulate that the Paalm's Hemalurgic use of Autonomy's metal in this case removes any part/influence of another shard from the person the Hemalurgy is used on. This thus would remove Preservation from them, taking away their sentience and reverting them to a primal, beast-like state. Brandon said that this shard is one we've already seen. Dominion, Devotion, and Honor have all been splintered, it isn't of Harmony, for reasons shown above I don't believe that it is Odium, Cultivation is hiding on Roshar, and Endowment seems content on Nalthis. This leaves only Autonomy. Thank you for reading my theory, any comments and responses will be appreciated!
  9. Words of Radiance, Chapters 59, 60 and 61 Epigraphs, pages 725, 733, and 746 (emphasis mine). We know this to be Frost, the Dragon from Yolen, replying to Hoid's letter. Over the last few years, people have teased some answers out of Brandon here and there, and we now know that Hoid was actually the name of Hoid's master many years ago. And, obviously, the current alias is Wit, but what about that first part? Another quote somewhere (I couldn't find it, though) states that one of Hoid's old names was Topaz (correct me if I'm wrong), so it could be that Frost is asking after his aliases, after all, he opens without knowing to whom he should address his letter. I could be that "the gemstone" is simply a reference to his old name, and that that alias died, and Hoid did whatever regeneration thing he does, moved on, and picked a new name. I do not think that that is the case. The Way of Kings, Chapter 57, page 801 (emphasis mine) I hereby theorize that it is the gemstone itself that died, not the alias itself. Perhaps something Hoid did "killed" it, or him using it lead to its "death." More on this later. Now, I was reading through some WoBs, and I found this: Which relates to the section in WoR chapter 54 when Hoid name-drops Adonalsium, blows it off, talks about taking people apart and stitching them back together, and says his goodbyes to Dalinar. I would say that this subject was very important to Hoid, as Dalinar notes that he seems preoccupied, which is quite unusual. This WoB tells us a few things. 1. The secret society that Gavilar was part of knew, at the very least, the name "Adonalsium." 2. The secret society also knows more about the History of the Knights Radiant, Honor, and the Desolations, than the average Rosharan. 3. Hoid needs to know about them for some reason. What else do we know about Gavilar? Not much, except that he handed Szeth a black glowing sphere upon his death, saying "they must not get it." Another WoB I found: I theorize that this sphere is the gemstone after which Hoid was named, and it has since died, which is why it has gone black and weird. Hoid is looking for it, which is why he wanted to know if Dalinar knew anything about Gavilar's secret society. Frost asked if he has given up on it, now that it is dead. Perhaps he meant "given up on looking for it," rather than "given up on the alias." Source. Since Brandon didn't correct the questioner, this could confirm that the black sphere was at least a gemstone. So? Thoughts? Feel free to poke holes, theorize, and add to this as you will. Thank you for reading.
  10. Apologies in advance if this has been brought up before. I searched the forum, wiki and google for any derivative of the word 'Adonals' before posting this, so I am not sure if it has been mentioned. If so, please direct me to the appropriate place/WOBs. Appreciated. Alright, so recently I started reading Warbreaker again because I absolutely love Lightsong. When it got to the section with Hoid, Lightsong and Siri I was of course interested because this is my first re-read after having found the 17th Shard and learned theories of the Cosmere. After Hoid completed his history of Hallandren he said something I had not noticed before in reference to his storytelling/[Lightweaving]. "I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn't know who he was, your Majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have died." I thought about who that friend may have been, and of course my brain jumped to the biggest thing it possibly could, Adonalsium itself. This got me to think something; what if the biggest clue about Adonalsium right there in the name: -ium. Lerasium. Atium. Leras. Ati. Therefore, I believe Adonalsium is actually Adonals This fits right into how so many worlds in the Cosmere worship some other, greater god out there - and how often it does not seem like that would be Adonalsium Itself. So, the pieces of my theory fall thusly: 1) There is a greater power that has existed long before the creation of Adonalsium 2) A living being called Adonals found a way to steal/harvest/merge with energy of this higher power 3) Adonals became a physical embodiment of a portion of this power, taking the suffix '-ium' 4) When Adonalsium was shattered it caused the greater power to lose much of its ability to effect the Cosmere - while maintaining its sentience it can only act in very subtle ways And.... Sorry, don't really know exactly where I was going with this... I just don't recall ever having heard anything along these lines and I wanted to see what y'all have to say. I need to go to my university now for some paperwork, and I will try to flesh out this theory in my head a little better while I am gone. Thanks for listening to my ramblings.
  11. So this is going to be brief because frankly, this is pretty insane and most likely wrong. But my theory is that Trell is the force that WoB has confirmed to have been opposing Adonalsium. And why do I think this? Because of this: WoB states that there is belief in a God who is not one of the Shards, and implies that that god is real. So how does that relate to Trell?. Well, the people of Scadrial believed in him pre-final empire, and Miles and Lessie seem to believe in him, and surely a third shard's presence on Scadrial would be detected by Ruin or Preservation? (Although, I admit i dont think anything says that there has never been a third shard on Scadrial at any point.) So maybe the presence of a being that was not a shard, and was instead something either powerful enough or different enough that it could go undetected on Scadrial was felt? Well that could easily be the force that opposed Adonalsium. And what do we know for certain about that force? A) It opposed Adonalsium, it had created a weapon to be used against Adonalsium and C) It's still around. So we know that whatever this force was, it really didn't like Adonalsium, and it's still out there somewhere. Which is why I think that it could be seeking to eliminate the shards. Now who else doesn't like the Shards? Lessie. Lessie, who believed in Trell and hated Harmony (a.k.a the biggest/strongest piece of Adonalsium around). So we know that there was something that was totally against Adonalsium, and it is still around, doesn't it make sense that it would set it's sights on what was left of Adonalsium after the Shattering? So maybe it looked around, and found that two of the shards which were diametrically opposed were on the same planet and decided that it would be easy to start off by getting rid of the two that would have the hardest time working together, and best to eliminate the one that embodied destruction itself (Ruin) for safety's sake. Heck, maybe it even looked around and noticed that Odium was going around doing his work for him and decided to steer clear of it's unwitting helper, and chooses Scadrial over somewhere like Nalthis or Roshar. So along to Scadrial comes Trell. He sets up shop, either waiting and watching the shards or subtly turning people against them. But then something totally unexpected happens, the two shards combine, creating Harmony. Suddenly Trell has an even bigger piece of Adonalsium to be rid of, so what does he do? He redoubles his efforts to destroy it. Thus leading to his increased presence on Scadrial as he starts trying to turn people away from Harmony. Which incidentally leads to why Trell might not be another shard as seems to be the most popular idea. Firstly, the timely reveal of Autonomy's existence totally seems like a red herring. Intended to distract people and make them think that Autonomy is Trell. But so far, all we really know is that whoever Trell may be, that someone is fighting against Harmony. But Autonomy has been off, being autonomus forever and Harmony as far as we know, has given Autonomy no reason to think that he might intend to interfere with that, while Adonalsium's Opposition (which has been lying conspicuously low) has just gained its new most powerful enemy. And guess what? as soon as Harmony appears, Trell returns and his followers, scarce though they may be, are starting to turn up. And those followers seem pretty opposed to Harmony. Sorry if this isn't all that coherent. I'm basically grasping at straws here, and im rushing in case someone else thinks of this and posts before me. Please tell me what you think. Tl;Dr: I think Trell is the force that opposed Adonalsium, because it has been confirmed to still be around and it is confirmed that a god that is not a shard exists, and the revealing of Autonomy looks like a red herring, while enemies of Harmony (the biggest piece of Adonalsium right now) seem to follow Trell.
  12. i have an older topic of this that no one posts on anymore. i want to hear newer fresh ideas with new info we didn't have before.
  13. So I was WoB hunting on Theoryland, and came upon this very nice one about Honourblades and Hoid: Now, we know that the Shardblades come from Spren, but also that the Spren that are Splinters of Honour copied the Heralds to make the KR. This means that there were the Spren before the Spren... We also know (but I can't find the WoB) that there were Adonalsium Spren left over on Roshar. (If anyone puts it up on here, I'll add it.) My theory is that Honour used them to make the Honourblades. Also, the fact that Hoid makes the distinction with this makes it important and quite resolute. Anyway, pretty straightforward. Thoughts?
  14. From what I understand of the Cosmere, there are (or were) two Gods involved in it. One of them resided INSIDE the Cosmere (Adonalsium), whom I will call the Eminent God (EG). Eminent becaue It(?) would be present throughout the Cosmere, but not outside of it. That would be the God Beyond, or the Transcendent God (TG). Transcendent becasue It transcends the limitations of time. Now, it seems as if the TG was the one who created the Cosmere, all of its physical laws, time, and perhaps the EG. The EG is the one that created what is INSIDE the universe, and is bound by the laws that the TG created. This means that the EG is not actually a four- or fifth- dimensional being, but rather is bound by the same perception of time as all other sentient life is. This is an important distinction that must exist, because as we all know, the EG is dead. This is rather fascinating in its own right, to consider how to kill a god. But I digress. The EG was killed or died somehow and was shattered into the components of its power. The components seem to come in pairs that are diametrically opposite each other (Preservation and Ruin come to mind). However, we can infer based off of what has been stated in numerous books and Sanderson's own numerology patterns, that there were 16 main shards of power, and a seventeenth of lesser power. This could suggest that perhaps one or more of the main shards is missing a piece of its power. Following that assumption, it could be that perhaps Odium is the Shard that is missing part of itself. I remember reading a theory that stated that since Odium is hatred, and Rayse its holder, then Rayse would also hate himself. Perhaps this missing piece of his, if the seventeenth shard has part of his power in it, it could be preventing that reflexive hatred of self. It might be far-fetched, but it could be the case.
  15. So a prevailing belief at the moment is that Hoid is endeavoring to reform Adonalsium. With the recent revelation about the nature of Harmony, which I will be discussing further down, I no longer believe that reforming Adonalsium is possible. At least not in the way we are thinking. Hoid muses about taking things apart and putting them back together again when talking to Dalinar in Way of Kings. This is the quote a lot of people have been thinking supports the idea that Hoid is trying to put Adonalsium together again. The line “into something like them—yet wholly unlike them at the same time” has led some people, and now myself, to question whether reuniting all of the Shards would recreate Adonalsium. In this theory I will be arguing the negative, bringing the Shards together will not remake Adonalsium. (in a potentially roundabout way that may make absolutely no sense) For the purposes of this thread I will be referring to Adonalsium as if it was a sheet of glass as a nod to the Shardic Lens theory. So, originally there was an unbroken pane of glass through which the power of creation shone. Then for some reason it shattered, creating sixteen Shards. Each has a different intent that filters the light that shines through them, kind of like a distinct color. At the tail end of AMA Brandon answered this question: This quote has blown the minds of a fair number of people, including mine. Before I get to the point I am making, I want to add another quote that shows that even though Harmony is the Shard, Ruin and Preservation still exist. It is my opinion that Ruin and Preservation have become cognitively linked, they have begun to see themselves as part of a greater whole, Harmony. Like Shai describes in the following quote. So what’s my point? The two pieces of glass that are Ruin and Preservation haven’t come together and made a larger piece of glass. They’ve just been soldered together. If that is true for these two Shards I can’t see any reason why having all sixteen would make any difference. Rather than making the pristine sheet of glass that was Adonalsium, they would instead make a stained-glass window. Hopefully this makes since to someone other than myself. Quotes in order of appearance -Way of Kings: Chapter 54 -2013 Reddit AMA -Nov 21 2011 Alloy of Law Signing Report - Lord Juss -The Emperor's Soul: Day Twelve Edit: This section is based in part on Chaos’ Devotion, Dominion, and Convergence Theory. In his theory Chaos describes the concept of “fragments” of shards and differentiates them from Splinters. In regards to my stained-glass metaphor they would both be pieces of glass from their respective Shard but are differentiated by their clarity. Splinters would have the same clarity as the parent Shard while fragments would have be more like frosted glass, transmitting the light in a more diffuse manner. What makes one frosted while the other is clear you’re asking? In my opinion it has to do with the relative strength, for lack of a better term, of their cognitive aspect. The “strength” of the cognitive aspect has to do with its ability to think for itself, a person has a stronger cognitive aspect than a rock for example. But wait! Splinters aren’t sentient. No they are not, but all of the splinters we have seen are attached to something that does have a strong cognitive aspect (i.e. the Returned and the Seons). A strong cognitive aspect helps to focus, and control, the light that is coming through the glass. It is important to remember though that these fragments still have a cognitive aspect to them, not a very strong one, but it is there and helping with the “convergence,” as Chaos put it, of the two shards. In my opinion the history, or rather memories, of an object are a part of its cognitive aspect (supported by the fact that feruchemical copper is a cognitive metal). These fragments can remember being part of something larger and want to be a part of it again (like the wall Shai forged to be painted wanted to be beautiful). It actually has memories of being a part of two things, its respective shard and adonalsium. So if a fragment of Devotion met up with a fragment of Dominion it would be like “You’re different from me but we used to be together so let’s hang out.” It is somewhat similar to Ruin and Preservation but in their case they have Sazed and the people of Scadrial to help for a cognitive leading for the pieces of glass.
  16. I was thinking of posting this in the other topic but i felt it was marginally different enough that it might warrant its own topic *mods, if this isn't the case, you know the drill* Now seeing as we have barely any concrete information on the 17th Shard and their purpose, this is just theoretical speculation/speculative theory and could just be reiterating what we already know, but i thought it an interesting view So from what little information we do have, the 17th Shard seem to take a very non-interference approach to matters relating to the Shards and perhaps to the Cosmere as an extension. We know they don't take too well to people meddling in Shardic matters as demonstrated by Hoid and in the Letter to his old reptile-like friend. Carrying on from that, I think it very possible they will intervene to prevent people (and possibly factions) with the skills and resources from causing wide-scale ramifications (aka Hoid) from interfering also. Spoilered for some references in soon-to-be published works TC;DR: Basically to summarise, I think that the 17th Shard are meant to represent the/an Intent that Adonalsium didn't have (doesn't particular narrow it down, I know but I think it could be something relating to Observation/Restraint etc. etc.) Their purpose is to monitor and record Investiture-related shenanigans along with the history of the Cosmere, with very little direct intervention on their part.
  18. “What might have been is an abstraction Remaining a perpetual possibility Only in a world of speculation.” T.S. Eliot, “Burnt Norton,” Four Quartets, lines 6-8. Crashing through the dimensional barrier came the fallen dragon. Never having seen a dragon before, government people wanted to cut it open and learn about its anatomy. But they were government people, secretive. They wanted the project “off the books.” So they brought in the rich philanthropist Edgli to pay for everything. Then they assembled their team, which included the following: Dr. Cult, a leading biologist, who had become pregnant by Dr. Tanavast, her “significant other” Dr. Tanavast, who wanted to “do right” by Dr. Cult and marry her Dr. Rayse, a spiteful, disagreeable man who wanted Dr. Cult for himself and hated Dr. Tanavast Dr. Skaize, head of the team, known for his overbearing personality Nurse Aona, who adored Dr. Skaize and would do anything for him Dr. Ati, a pathologist who loved dissecting and taking things apart Dr. Leras, Dr. Ati’s medical partner who had responsibility for managing their practice and keeping everything running smoothly while Dr. Ati was out buying drinks for everyone and generally making havoc Mr. Hoid, the teams’s clerk and reporter, writing the record of the proceedings. They move forward with the autopsy, “oohing” and “aahing” at their discoveries, Hoid taking careful notes. Eventually they reach the dragon’s heart, which looks like a giant gemstone. They remove this organ to examine it, only to have it slip from their hands to the stone floor and shatter…Yes, the Shattering was literally a shattering. Forget the Fantastic Four! We now have the Scintillating Sixteen! The powers of creation rush from the gemheart in 16 separate “whooshes,” investing these individuals with god-like powers. They vaporize. Yolen is too small for them. Different groups of them take off in different directions, and the rest is Cosmere history.
  19. This is my First Theory post, please feel free to tell me if you think i'm horrifically off-base or if there's a WoB that I haven't encountered that disproves this. I'm working my way back through Way of Kings and something in Hoid's conversation with Dalinar in Ch. 54: Gibletish, struck me as odd this time through - Specifically the mention of Adonalsium. The general consensus, that he was just name-dropping the God-Shard's name to see if Dalinar knew it, leaves a crucial question unanswered: Why did Hoid think that Dalinar would have heard that name before? The obvious answer is that he knew Dalinar's visions were coming from Honor and didn't know what information was included in those visions. However, the way in which Hoid did the name drop stood out to me this time. "Wit," Dalinar said with a sigh. "I haven't the mind for this tonight. I'm sorry if I'm missing your intent, but I have no idea what you mean." "I know," Wit said, then looked directly at him. "Adonalsium." This seems like an odd way to go about checking if he knew that name, even if you ignore that Hoid is being a bit more direct than usual during that bit of conversation. To me, it seems almost as if Hoid is calling Dalinar Adonalsium, rather than just checking to see if the highprince recognized it. If that is the case, then the implication would be that Dalinar is somehow a reincarnation of the consciousness that was originally behind Adonalsium, and Hoid was calling him that to see if there would be any reaction. Is there something in how Dalinar is acting that reminds Hoid (who we know was present when Adonalsium was shattered) of the mind behind the being? So, what does everyone think? Am I just misreading it, or could this be a very real possibility? Or have I missed a WoB that completely counters what I'm proposing?
  20. Preface: So in the formulating of my thoughts for this post I did look at what has been written in some related posts. That being said I certainly have not read all of the posts related to this, nor am I aware of every word of brandon. This is (in my opinion) a good thing, because it means my thoughts are my own, and could offer some unique perspectives. So please do not be upset if I reiterate what others have already said, as I believe I will say it with a different perspective and viewpoint. Also, if I say something completely wrong due to some obscure word of brandon, I would request you tell me politely, and also realize that WoBs are less than perfect at times, as Brandon could be saying one thing but meaning another. People often make, by mistake, inaccurate blanket statements when trying to answer questions in a way that doesn't "spoil too much." Brandon has probably done this many times already, if less than most people due to his efforts to keep his cosmere world comments rooted in the canon he has in his personal wiki. Intro: There are two main areas that I will deal with, which are both separate and related, the natures (or postulated histories) of adonalsium and hoid. I want to talk about them in detail, but some of what I say wont make sense if you don't know where I am heading. So here is my thesis apart from its arguments: adonalsium was a man-formed tool which developed consciousnesses, adonalsium took measures before the shattering of its being to preserve its conscience in a being whom we now know as hoid. Please do not discredit these statements until reading what I have to say. important quotes (red one is very important): “I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn't know who he was, Your Majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have died.” —Hoid to Siri on where he learned his particular method of storytelling.[17] As Hoid developed that type of storytelling,[34] it's possible that the "man who didn't know who he was" is himself. Also, "where gods have died"and "many, many years ago" seem to speak of the Shattering. (from the coppermind) "Nonsense. Balderdash. Figgldygrak. Isn't it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched into something like them—yet wholly unlike them at the same time? “I wonder if you could do that to a man. Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Aimian. If you do put a man together like that, Dalinar, be sure to name him Gibberish, after me. Or perhaps Gibletish. ” —Hoid to Dalinar (after namedropping Adonalsium)[19] “I began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page. That was another thing I stole. Myself. Another time, I was named for a rock.” “A pretty one, I hope.” “A beautiful one,” the man said. “And one that became completely worthless for my wearing it. ” —Hoid to Kaladin[18] The power needed a consciousness to direct it. In this matter, I am still rather confused. Why would power used to create and destroy need a mind to oversee it? And yet, it seems to have only a vague will of its own, tied in to the mandate of its abilities. Without a consciousness to direct it, nothing could actually be created or destroyed. It's as if the power of Preservation understands that its tendency to reinforce stability is not enough. If nothing changed, nothing would ever come to exist. -mistborn hero of ages epigraphs (Edit: recently found and very relevant WoB Q: If Endowment were killed, would the Returned still come? A: Somebody needs to hold the magic. If no one holds the magic, the magic will start to gain sentience. Interesting and bizarre things happen then, so I would say yes, but with the caveat that with whoever picks up the power or what happens with the power could end up changing that.) The nature of Adonalsium and of Hoid: The two quotes that matter a lot to me in this section is the epigraph describing the nature of preservation's needing a conscience, and wits saying that he was a beautiful rock (for which he was named) that when he wore it made it "worthless." Let us postulate that pre-adonalsium there were many powers in the universe, (it is hinted that adonalsium had a potential threat in many WoBs). Lets also say that some people decided to create an incredibly powerful tool by combining several powers into one, new, massively powerful creation. Similarly to the way that Antium is the body of ruin, lets imagine adonalsium is a rock which is some sort of an alloy of many different power sources (this may be why the different shards appear to manifest in different physical forms). Now, the creators of this were looking to create a tool, a massively powerful tool, a "beautiful rock" that is adonalsium. They succeeded but failed to realize one thing. The power needed a consciousness to direct it (look at HoA epigraph). Wit describes himself as having stolen his identity from words on a page. I argue that adonalsium created a consciousness for itself from what he was able to observe in the world around him (if ruin could read and change writing, so could adonalsiums power observe it). This made the tool useless. As hoid states, in "wearing" the power, he has made it "worthless" or, in my theory, useless to its creators. Imagine making a massive global defense satellite system, only to have the supercomputer that controls it develop into an AI. You now have a massive weapon in the hands of an unknown and uncontrollable variable. Whoever created adonalsium obviously was very powerful and knowledgeable, and sought to destroy adonalsium through other powers in the world. Back to the computer analogy. If the super computer was stored at one sight, it is vulnerable, so what does it do? It moves itself into many different servers and locations to prevent anyone from targeting it and destroying it. When adonalsium perceived a threat to itself, he sought to prevent his potential destruction by shattering himself into many separate parts. However, he didn't want to die, but his consciousness, indeed his identity, was about to be shattered into 16 pieces, so what does he do? He makes plans to bring his broken consciousness back together into a new host. Lets look back at Wits discussion with dalinar about breaking a man into different parts and bringing him back together into giberish. I would argue that Wit talks about this in a sentimental way (name him after me part, and language like "bloody chunk by bloody chunk") as if he himself had that happen to him. Look also at the quote about someone who didn't know who he was, in which he was apparently also describing himself, it makes sense that his recombining would leave him incredibly confused. I would argue that adonalsium successfully managed to bring (at least parts of) his consciousness back together to form a "giberish" representation of his original self. However, he only did so for his consciousness. I remember a WoB that hoid was offered a shard but turned it down. It seems to me that someone who had once held all 16 shards together, and is now but a shade of what he was, a consciousness that had been torn apart and sown back together, would not want to hold but one aspect of himself, a constant reminder of the pain he had gone through. Hoid's goal may indeed be to eventually reform adonalsium's body, but perhaps his previous consciousness gave Hoid the task of first ensuring the shards potential threats were removed, so that he could be safely reformed. Notes: One interesting comment on the coppermind about hoid is that he is Brandon's favorite character, which, if my theory is true, makes perfects sense. Hoid would be, after all, the root cause of almost everything happening in the cosmere. Perhaps Hoids love of stories comes from the fact that his very consciousness was created from stories or "words on a page." Maybe his concept was some hero in a story, and he assumed a consciousness that reflected it. Note also that Hoid has a massive and extensive knowledge of stories. One whole in my argument is the unfinished work on Dragonsteel and its first chapter, here are some quotes from it: (edit: to clarify as someone pointed out "For clarity that is Liar of Partinel not Dragonsteel. While it was technically part of the Dragonsteel sequence", this is also a rather old work and certainly not cannon, however whatever does end up being written would likely share certain traits, so it can probably be "trusted" to give hints of hoids nature.) But there had been a story to Midius’s life, and Hoid loved stories. Midius smiled faintly, thinking of the old man’s temperament. Hoid would rather accept a wildman, bloodied and dangerous, into his company than the well- trained son of a wealthy man. The man of the wilderness had a better story. A wildman. . . . Midius thought. Yes. Raised by the Chan people. That’s who I was. He describes himself similarly to the way that the Warbreaker quote does, he loves stories and doesn't know who he was, "a wildman." Perhaps hoid loved stories so much because adonalsium formed his consciousness from "words on a page." Midius studied the words again, then carefully rolled up the parchment and tied the frayed string. “You were so close,” he said. “You could feel it.” He placed the scroll in a sack, then turned toward the corpse, resting on its shelf-like bed at the side of the hut. “I can’t solve the problem from here,” Midius said softy. “I’m not smart enough for that. Notice how he appears to have knowledge of the solution as if he knows how close his master was, but how could he know that? it appears the assassination just happened, and why wouldn't hoid tell his master? Also he says he isn't "smart enough for that." perhaps his return to consciousness left him without the knowledge that he had once held, only a dim shadow. No. No he didn’t. This was him. He told himself that forcefully. Perhaps he struggles with his identity, after all, in my theory he had pieces of a consciousness thrust into his brain bit by bloody bit. He looked up at he body. “And thank you,” he whispered. “For what you have done for me. I think you shall never really understand the new chance you gave me for life. For that, I shall try to see people as you did.” He says he will try to see people as his master did. Perhaps hoid hated people because at the moment of his forming consciousness people immediately plotted to destroy him and he had had to destroy himself to survive. Hesitantly, he reached into a pocket and pulled out a handful of dust. Then, he threw it into the air, imagining his master’s face and Weaving the light. That face appeared in front of him. Aged, wise, beardless. Alive. As Midius remembered him. Midius reached out, almost believing his own illusion for a moment. However, as soon as he touched the face, it shattered back to dust and sprinkled down to the ground. this could be considered evidence of objects that held power other than adalniusm, he appears to have to use this dust to light weave, even as stormlight is used. Perhaps this gives more basis for my assuming there were different objects of power that could have been formed together into adonalsium. Conclusion: obviously most of what I have just said is very far-fetched and based only loosely in facts. But heck, I had fun theory crafting, so now you guys can have fun tearing it apart "piece by bloody piece" and putting it back together into something new. Also, sorry for making you read such a long chunk of text LOL
  21. I will first lay out what we know and possible influences on Brandon, then I will put out my theory. First of all, we know that on each of the Shardworlds, there is Man (Humankind). Each world is a bit different, but they all look the same. Second, Shards are akin to Gods in the Cosmere. Third, in the Bible, one of, if not the most published book in the history of the world, a book that Brandon most likely has heard some part of, it states that Man was made in God's Image. Do you see where I am getting at here? My theory: The Shards created life in the Image of Adonalsium, which is essentially saying they created life in their own image, as God did. Each is slightly different, but they all look the same, which brings me on to my main point: Adonalsium, whatever it is, was the original template for Mankind, and therefore is shaped as if a man (human). Okay, so now its out there. I'm not sure if this theory has been proposed before, and I'm sorry if I made any incorrect assumptions, but I think that this is definitely possible. I welcome input (your thoughts, etc.) or even outright dismissals. ~Patchwork Gibletish
  22. It seems like a general consensus that Adonalsium is a person or object, but is there any WOB limiting it to that? It's always sounded like the name of a city to me, or it could even be something more abstract -- a religion, moral code, or magic system that was splintered. Since there are Spiritual and Cognitive realms, is there anything saying that it existed directly in the physical realm at all? Just throwing out questions
  23. Adonalsium is not every shard combined. Adonalsium was merely the person that held all the shards. When all shards are combined it becomes something else entirely. So maybe Adonalsium was the creator of the shards and maybe Adonalsium is still alive, just not holding his creation anymore.
  24. I have always wondered how adonalsium could be stronger than the individual shards. Each shard wilds the powers of creation and/or destruction, and wields the ability to transform matter into energy and vice versa. How could you be more powerful than that? It also seems to me that each shard draws on the same forces. I can see the ten surges in a mistborn, an elatrin(however you spell that), and an awakeners. This makes me think that the shards also share a common source. I propose that the reason adonalism is stronger is not due to the raw power, but the fact that it does not come with a corrupting intent which inevitably consumes the wielder. This makes adonalsium so much more versatile and applicable to a much broader range of situations. Essentially, I don't think that the power was divided, just the current wielder's persona. Am I making sense?
  25. So if there are 16 shards does Harmony count as 1 shard or 2 shards?