Thursday, 21 May 2015

The Final Answer: What Is MGTOW?

The answer is: Yes.

Which isn't particularly helpful, stated out baldly like that. So lets back up and examine this in more detail.

This involves JudgyBitch who got a good chunk of it when she said: Okay, MGTOW, I get it now. If this is the option, I'd pass too.

This involves Vox Day when he constantly attempts to paint MGTOW as losers in the sexual marketplace who are completely celibate. In fact it involves anyone who subscribes to and spouts similar blinkered views.

This involves Keoni Galt talking about the Evangical Celibacy Hermitage and how that is what every asshole with an agenda seems to want to paint MGTOW (he's right by the way - read it and think it over for yourself). Thank you Keoni for pointing back to this:
The goal is to instill masculinity in men, femininity in women, and work toward limited government!
By instilling masculinity in men, we make men self-reliant, proud, and independent.
By instilling femininity in women, we make them nurturing, supporting, and responsible.
By working for a limited government, we are working for freedom and justice.
Women having "other qualities" is not interesting to men because we don't need them!
Femininity will be the price women pay for enjoying masculinity in men!
This is the aim of "Men Going Their Own Way".
By holding this point of view, we are helping other men and, more importantly, we are helping boys grow up to become men.
This goal is to take away everyone's "right" to vote on other people's affairs thus rendering it impossible for political organisms and ideologies to impose their personal will on everyone else. It is not about reinstalling patriarchy or revoking female voting rights or making socialism illegal. It might have this as a side effect - but not directly and not as a political ideology. Only the future will show what happens and by going our own way we are preparing men and boys for that future.
Most of all, this goes back to our real roots - No-Ma'am (related h/t to Keoni in the above link-and-quote):
MGTOW as a Form of "Cultural Game"
Women aren’t gonna stop eating our lunch because it's “the right thing to do.” They are only gonna stop when we stop them from doing it.
For all those who understand “game,” you certainly must realize that aloof indifference does not stop women – it makes them try to be noticed harder. If you ignore them, they will escalate until you do pay attention to them.
You have to keep in mind with men and women as well, that when a boy sins it is overt. He shouts and screams and kicks and makes a big scene that you cannot miss. And then he stays quiet again for a long, long time, causing no trouble, until the next overt outburst. But women are covert and their outbursts/sins are subtle but last for a much longer period of time. A woman can keep a subtle running battle going for months and even sometimes years at a time, like Chinese water torture.
And, practitioners of game also should know the rule of “it’s my way or the highway, Toots!” and that any man who doesn’t want to be ruined by woman has to learn to say no without bothering to explain, and say it often… no… No… NONO!!!
Merely because I said so.
Just because I want it that way.
Tough. There’s the door.
Well, this is merely game on a cultural level. Women really are powerless without us. That vote they keep yacking about doesn’t mean a thing without men enforcing its power. Everything that permits the “you go grrl” culture is provided to women by the indulgence of men. If men left the building, women’s vote couldn’t enforce a single thing – because their vote and their rights are not based upon “the barrel of a gun,” but rather upon indirect social manipulation of the people holding the gun.
If men leave the building, women will follow.
I think men understanding how women are manipulating us – as put forth by guys like Schopenhauer – will do ten thousand times more for our “movement” than any amount of billions of dollars funnelled to lobby-groups to manipulate the law into something even worse than we have today.
As much as women like to say that men don’t leave them alone, if the men said “fine, see ya” and actually left, the women would follow us to the ends of the earth.
And if they don’t… tough.
It’s such a joke for women to come around here and try to con us into believing how much we want and need them, when almost none of the men here are on their forums seeking them out. They find guys who are busy with other things and completely ignoring them, and try to intrude and take over. This is the entire history of “feminine-ism.”
And, herein lies the proof of the big lie, and the big paradox for women. Accusations that men don’t care only work when men do care. In order to get his mind in the right frame where he can attract women, he has to reach the place where he no longer cares if he does or not – and in many cases “not” starts to win.
Game - on a cultural level. Never mind the personal man-to-woman level. This is Mankind to Womankind.

This is going beyond the God Mode of PUA pushing all the right buttons to make a woman wet and compliant and open her legs for him. This is going to the meta-level of Men pushing the right buttons to make Women compliant on a social stratum.

And if they don't... tough.

MGTOW are Men taking the personal and making it political, flipping the warped mindset and nomenclature of the femicunts back upon them. Attempting to set women as a whole straight on the whole.

MGTOW are Men leaving the building.
Roughly paraphrasing from what Keoni said (quoting from the commentor Hund Hollen) - MGTOW is a label for those who no longer follow the script(s) written by society. Including certain segments of the Manosphere society, in their attempts to push us into following scripts of their own defining, for their own agenda. Those people with their own skin in the game, with their own reasons for doing things, wanting to make us conform for their benefit.

As certain segments of the Manosphere paraphrase and spout: "I view MGTOW as losers of low socio-sexual rank..." blah blah blah feminist/leftist shaming language ad-infinitum. As I said back when: "If FEMICUNTS can't push us into line, with a lifetime of social conditioning backing them up, what makes you think that YOU have a chance?"

Go fuck yourselves.

That goes for anyone who is trying to force us back on the reservation. Anyone trying to drag us back to the plantation.

So: What Is MGTOW?

MGTOW is a man writing his own script and following the (very general) philosophy of: "If it's not right, Go Your Own Way."

It's that simple.

Don't listen to others. Don't seek approval from others. Become independent and self-reliant. Shit, don't listen to me or seek approval from me. It's not relevant to you.

If you want various ideas on how to live your life, there's millions of man-years of writing in books (old-school stuff) and on the internet in the Manosphere. Use it as a general guideline. Choose and customize your own life. Take a bit of this, that, something else, no that's not useful, hmm that's interesting, that is such utter bullshit, that works for me, holy shit on a shingle what a nutjob, hey this is good.

Use what works for you.

MGTOW isn't a script to follow as such. It's a "rip that bullshit script up and do what you want" general philosophy.

Fuck hot chicks? Go for it.

Not bother too much with women? Go for it.

Swear off women totally? Go for it.

Drop out of the system and go Ghost? Go for it.

Build businesses? Go for it.

Sell drugs on the street? Go for it.

Your way. Your consequences. Your responsibility. What works for you. Don't come to me or us or anybody else. It's all yours. Own that motherfucker.

What is MGTOW?

It's when a Man says "no" to a woman.

Recently a girl I'm with has been trying to persuade me to do some things that I don't want to (basically spend less personal time doing stuff that benefits me and spend more time with her - so that she "feels good"):

Me: No.

Her (laughing and still attempting to manipulate/persuade/shame): You don't give an inch, do you?

Me (blocking her attempt): Damn straight.

It's YOUR life. It's YOUR choices. She doesn't have to like them. She can go elsewhere.

YOU are still doing what YOU want to do. Whether that involves personal enjoyment, learning, relaxation, hobbies, improvements to your home, improvements to your body, stuff for work, whatever.

It's YOUR mindset. It's YOUR way - or the highway.

Now, in the past I had thought that only unmarried Men could be MGTOW. I said as much several times. Keoni Galt made me reassess that thinking and helped put me straight. Commentor LosAngelesKing did similar when he stated: "I'm not MGTOW...nor do I ever plan to be, as I'm happily married."

After thinking, I cannot stress it enough:
  • MGTOW is not celibate
  • MGTOW is not loser
  • MGTOW is not unmarried
  • MGTOW is not any of these predefined definitions and scripts foisted on you by others
What is MGTOW?
  • MGTOW is realizing that other's scripts are not necessarily in your own best interests
  • MGTOW is defining your own script
  • MGTOW is your way or the highway
  • MGTOW is you in control of your life
To plagiarize the "Hypergamy Doesn't Care" trope in the Manosphere:
  • MGTOW doesn't care if you're living in your parents basement
  • MGTOW doesn't care if you're playing computer games all day
  • MGTOW doesn't care if you're incel
  • MGTOW doesn't care if you're single
  • MGTOW doesn't care if you're in a relationship
  • MGTOW doesn't care if you're married
  • MGTOW doesn't care if you're a bum on the street
  • MGTOW doesn't care if you're a high-flying billionaire
If you want an example "script" or "path" for MGTOW, then imagine this: a large bowl of spaghetti dropped on the sidewalk. There's your fuckin' map. By the way, that is a large bowl of spaghetti for each individual MGTOW.

For each individual Man.

This image is just the beginning of your own path - the moment you diverge from other's scripts and start going your own way:
Where it fuckin' leads is up to you. That's just the start. Get to walkin'. Shut up and shovel the fuckin' gravel.

As I said to commentor LosAngelesKing:
I think that's what put me off from being a real PUA. Something about the message of "come be trash with us so you can fuck hot sexy trash chicks and then snort a line of coke off her ass" did not attract me. It was not my map of what a Man should be and I was not going to shit all over my map for a chance to stick my dick in some hot trashy chick.
That was not my fuckin' map. Not my fuckin' path. Not my fuckin' way.

Some self-righteous cunt or prick wants to throw monkey-poo at me for making my own choices in life? Because I refuse to follow their definition of what a man does or is or should be? Because I refuse to follow their designated path that ultimately benefits their purpose in life? Because I refuse to make them feel good by doing as they say or want?

Screw you. You ain't paying me. Even if you were paying me, you don't tell me how to live my private life. Go fuck yourself.

Someone else chooses to go follow that way, fine, more power to them. I choose otherwise.

Try to shame me into line with your thinking? Go fuck yourself.

Try to shame me into doing something for your benefit? Go fuck yourself.

Try to shame me into thinking certain ways? Go fuck yourself.

Try to shame me into behaving certain ways? Go fuck yourself.

Try to force me into certain things? Go fuck yourself. (If you're forcing me at the point of a gun, you better be watching me constantly - which kind of defeats the purpose, don't it? I can slack off or fuck things up to a fare-thee-well with the best of them. Watch out for "accidents" that might injure you too.)

It's not in MY interests? It's only for YOUR benefits? Go fuck yourself.

Try to persuade me into any of the above? And I don't want to? No. (A far more genteel way of saying "go fuck yourself" - in keeping with the far more pleasant attempt to shape or push me into line.)

What is Men Going Their Own Way? Yes.

Get it through your fuckin' heads, those who attempt to force Men into a box or follow a script or map of their own making for their own benefits. It's Men Going Their Own Way.

You want Men to do otherwise? To do your own bidding? For little to no benefit to them? For most or all benefit to you? Go fuck yourself.

I'm tired of repeating myself. For all of those who desire that I do otherwise than what I'm doing in my life. For those with the arrogance and hubris to think that they can force their choices and desires upon me. For all those who think that their personal desires and interests and ideas automatically override what I think is for my best personal interests in my own private time in my own personal life and space.

Go fuck yourselves.

For those who think that I should step up and "save" civilization. I am. Individually. In my own way. On a meta-level that you are obviously utterly incapable of comprehending, let alone seeing. You can try to tell me how YOU think that I should be saving civilization. I will make my own decision as to what I actually do. I am a Man Going My Own Way.

You can offer further information and ways of thinking if you want. I might reassess. I might take some of them on board. I might change certain aspects of my path through life. I might change my mind. As I choose. I am a Man Going My Own Way.

I also have the right to get as grumpy and shitty as I want when you lot try to shame or force me to do otherwise than my own choice. Go fuck yourselves.

MGTOW has only one judgement: Are you in control of your own life? (As much as possible.)

MGTOW has only one expectation: That you take responsibility for your self! (As much as possible.)

Tonight, I will hoist a small glass of Grand Marnier in a quiet toast to four people: Janet Bloomfield of JudgyBitch, Keoni Galt of Hawai'ian Libertarian, commentor LosAngelesKing, and - most of all! - to No-Maam.

Thank you.


  1. Man Gone Their Own Way!

    Today, I hoist my glass of American IPA (7.2% ABV) and return your toast. That was one hell of a post!


  2. You've gotta sticky this at the top of your site. It's beautiful.

  3. LosAngelesKing22 May 2015 at 08:38

    I'm a 37 year old man, and decades ago stopped caring what femcunts think, I know they don't have my best interests at heart (or for that matter those I care about), so I said fuck them. Since I could remember, I always despised those hags. As I get older, the contempt for them just grows. But as of late, the PUAsphere has really pissed me off too. They remind me much of the femicunts I hate so much. I won't/didn't desire to fuck other men's women, why you must be a beta...Uncle Bob was right that PUAs are cowards. I play hockey, watch hockey, collect hockey memorabilia, then you must be a beta. Uncle Bob was right that PUAs are cowards. That's no better than "Man up" when I refuse to co-operate in my own oppression. My belief on this craziness is this: you're either with me (which means leave the hell alone to live my life in peace) or you're against me. There is no in between. Men get enough of the bullshit shaming from the women, we don't need from other men.

  4. In a way we can liken MGTOW to guerilla-warfare on a cultural meta-level. Zen. Passive resistance. That type of thing.

    @LosAngelesKing - Precisely re the bullshit shaming. It's gotten really bad when I have to turn my Crap Colored Glasses™ on my fellow-Men who say they are helping - and end up ripping them a new asshole for their throwing more bullshit shaming around.

    Effectively it comes across as trying to shame them into respecting the choices of their fellow-Men. Grief.

  5. This Looks Like It22 May 2015 at 12:35

    Agreed. What I find notable is how a lot of bloggers seem to find MGTOW threatening in a way that other movements were not. PUA was good for sales and ego boosts. But MGTOW? It's radical separation from the rules. If the smell of fear is any indication then MGTOW is the answer.

  6. It's the same as why MGTOW are reviled by women.

    PUAs give women what they want: sexual validation. That's the only validation that women seem to understand these days, and all they seem see themselves as being worth. A sex object. As such, PUA are running God Mode inside The Matrix as it currently is, treating women as the sex objects that they want to be.

    MGTOW seek to restore The Matrix to what it used to be. This has the side-effect of destroying some of the God Mode that the PUAs currently enjoy. When their enjoyment is threatened, when their power is threatened, people get all pissy about it.

    The thing is that there have always been sluts and whores and women of loose morals. Men have always been able to find them. MGTOW aren't attempting to remove them entirely - that would be impossible on a cultural level. Making them less-prevalent is more the goal, along with the concomitant reduction in the destruction of our civilization and society and the Men within it.

  7. This, and Keoni's linked post, is the best post on MGTOW I've read in a long, long time.

    Well done, Black Poison.

  8. A true Manifesto...Rational and passionate.


  9. This is the first time I've read this site (but not the last). So help me out here - what is a PUA?

    1. Cheers Bill, here's hoping some of this is useful to you. Look elsewhere too, there's a lot of stuff which might click with you better than this lot. Plus my viewpoint has changed a lot over the last two-three years.

      PUA - a Pick Up Artist.

      In a nutshell this is a guy who goes out to various bars and clubs (most commonly) and attempts to attract women, take them home for sex. The women in bars and clubs tend to be the more "available" types: promiscuous, a little tipsy, horny, that sort of thing. Some of them are straight-up whores and sluts and strippers. On the whole many of these girls have gone off the end of the moral pier, many are not the nicest types to associate with - often with psychological issues.

      The ultimate end-goal for a PUA is to have the sexiest women for a few nights - maybe a few weeks or months. When things get stale or she starts to get boring or more demanding: dump her ass and find another one. Often the PUA will have two or three women on the go at a time, plus a couple of others waiting in the wings.

      These guys have generally had 50+ sexual partners for starters, often in the hundreds - the really long-term PUAs might have had a thousand or more, depending on their skill levels and how long they've been doing it. Like anything on the internet, you can't tell how much is bullshit, so it's always best to be skeptical of any claims made.

    2. Thanks for the reply. Glad I wasn't one just for asking LOL.

      I've always thought that crowd were just masturbators who used other peoples' bodies for awhile. Both sides of the equation.

      "...On the whole many of these girls have gone off the end of the moral pier, many are not the nicest types to associate with - often with psychological issues..."

      One big reason I have never been like that is, I might wake up one morning and understand the Russian phrase, "I am stuck in a very deep vagina."

    3. It was an honest question, deserved an honest answer. Regarding masturbators, fairly much. I can't remember where I read that the whole pickup scene was a bunch of people mutually masturbating with each other's bodies. Made me laugh.

      Ya veh pizde indeed. Having gone through a BPD/NPD situation, I'd rather not go through it again myself.

  10. y'all are just so angry and hateful at women because they don't give you sex immediately. that is literally all this comes down to. you are mad that you aren't special and you didn't get the girl that tv and media promised you that you'd have if only you had xyz. but you forget that women are human beings and not a bunch of stereotypes just like men are.
    re-evaluate your life