IRC log of #schooltool for Tuesday, 2006-10-17

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ashikI have completed translation. How can I check if it translated correctly?08:01
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ashiktoxygen: Hi09:59
ashikI did all the translation process10:00
ashikAnd I think its the time to work on configuration file10:00
ashikWill you please help me?10:00
ashikThanks schooltool10:33
ashikI did it10:33
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jfrocheignas: hello12:20
ignasjfroche: hi12:21
jfrochesame for my code for the export => on trunk svn ?12:21
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jfroche(not the z3 product, just the python)12:21
ignasjfroche: ok, will do probably12:21
jfrocheyou will do ?12:22
jfrochev nearly finished12:28
jfrocheplaying with the xml12:28
ignasvidas was working on roundup, but he won't be available for a day or two12:39
jfrochell finish tonight i think12:40
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povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6429:14:08
povbot/svn/commits: Create a branch for lyceum work.14:08
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povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6430:15:28
povbot/svn/commits: Add translations for main navigation menu items.15:28
ignasjinty: ayt?15:37
jintyignas: yeah15:38
ignasare  there any legal kludges that would prevent me from commiting .po files extracted from rosetta tarballs into schooltool repository ?15:38
ignaslyceum branch to be exact15:38
ignasi know15:39
jintyI just know that for me it is not ok.15:39
ignasyou mean - you don't want it done, or that you can't do it?15:40
jintybut I think you guys have a different contract that allows you to commit this stuff.15:40
ignasi'll ask tom about this then15:40
jintyI mean I _really_ want it done, but I signed a piece of paper saying I would not do it.15:40
jintycommit to trunk please!15:41
ignasok :)15:42
ignasjinty: any ideas of what should we do with predefined schooltool content (teache, admin groups/ manager user)?15:43
ignaswhen an instance is created - manager, teacher groups get their english names15:43
ignaswe can either tell schooltool to use a different language when creating the database for the first time15:44
ignasor try to come up with a different translation scheme for "special" groups, users, resources15:44
jintyare these id's?15:44
ignastitle, description of a group technically is user data not system data15:45
ignasso they are not Ids15:45
ignasi don't know what would happen if a group had it's title as a messageId15:45
jintythat's what I was thinking of suggesting15:45
ignasas one can edit titles, descriptions15:45
ignasi will try it out15:45
jintybetter not do too much magic15:46
ignasmaybe you just get a translated ID in the edit box and it stays translatable (depending on browser settings) until the first update15:46
ignasas there is no way, nor sense to have something user entered translatable15:46
jintyI agree15:47
ignasok i'll try message Ids, if it won't work we'll have to think of some way to "define" the language for database initialization15:48
jintywaa, I don't want to think about that15:48
jintymessage id's seem like too much magic for me, I'd go down the documentation route (FAQ, initial installation questions)15:49
ignasok, i'll have to think of some way to set default group names to Lithuanian for Lyceum so i would not have to manually edit them every time i reset the database15:49
ignasdoes rosetta support translation for multiple versions of a product ?15:50
jintyyeah, I think so15:50
ignasas i would like to use rosetta for schooltool trunk but don't want to gobble old pot files with new message_ids15:51
jinty'gobble old pot files' ???15:53
jintythere's a verb i've never heard before15:53
ignascurrent schooltool.pot contains a lot more message_ids than those comming from release versions of schooltool15:53
ignasif i will (so it would be more convenient for me) migrate schoolbell domain to schooltool, i will have only 1 file for translations which will make it even more incompatible with schoolbell-ui, schooltool translations15:53
ignaslet's call it schooltool-trunk.pot or something like that15:54
ignasbut i'd still like to use rosetta to translate it15:54
jintywell, shouldn't schoolbell.pot only contain translations that come from the parts that are schoolbell specific?15:55
jintyI mean I see a clear schoolbell -> schooltool dependency here15:55
ignaswell, as from i don't know when, both projects are too convoluted (a.k.a. schoolbell doesn't exist anymore)15:55
ignasat least not in trunk15:56
jintyok, well, I would say that schoolbell.pot should only contain strings from inside schooltool.sbapp15:56
ignassbapp is not used anywhere i think15:57
jintyexcept if you want to run schoolbell15:57
ignasyou can't run schoolbell i think15:58
ignaswe were planning to run schoolbell from  trunk but the contract got scrapped15:58
ignasor can you?15:58
jintyHmm, I was thinking of taking that job on, but paying work is getting in the way15:59
ignassame for me :/15:59
jintybut I would leave the remains of schoolbell lying around for a release or so just in case someone takes that on15:59
ignaswhat i want to say is that schoolbell domain is used in a lot of places in schooltool16:00
ignasand if i will fix it - schoolbell.pot will be more or less empty16:00
ignasin the future - schoolbell and schooltool will both depend on the same schooltool core, not on each other16:00
jintyyes, only containing the contents of sbapp.16:00
ignasso if i would add a release to schooltool translations with some "date" as version, I could upload the new schooltool.pot file without stepping on anyones toes?16:01
jintyyeah, do it with 200616:02
ignasor is there a better way?16:02
ignasas current trunk is not a real release ...16:02
jintyI think if you upload the schooltool trunk pot as schooltool-2006 it will be fine16:03
jintythen when I get around to actually doing a release, we can use those translations.16:04
ignasok, i'll do some domain shuffling first though16:04
ignasto have everything important for lyceum in schooltool.pot16:04
* ignas is becoming a bit selfish, sorry16:04
jintyshould imagine just using sed would work16:05
ignasGNU emacs :)16:06
ignaswill I be able to update the pot file later? (in case it is missing some strings)16:18
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6431:16:25
povbot/svn/commits: Switch everything in schooltool packages to schooltool as translation domain.16:25
* th1a shuffles some papers around.16:30
th1aHi ignas.16:33
th1ajfroche_: ayt?16:33
ignasth1a: can i commit translations extracted from rosetta tarballs into the repository ?16:34
th1aOK, let's get back to our routine of starting the meetings with what you did last week, what you're planning for this week and any current blocks.16:34
ignasok :)16:34
th1aignas:  It is my understanding that you can.16:34
th1aAlthough I guess we haven't so far?16:35
ignasth1a: maybe you have some access to Mark's lawyers for such questions?16:35
th1aSo maybe I'm making that up...16:35
th1a    *16:37
th1a      By using Rosetta, you give permission to Canonical Ltd. to publish those translations under the same licence as the software they belong to.16:37
th1aWell, that means we can use it under the GPL, but we don't have a share of the *copyright*16:38
ignasso can i commit them to trunk or I can only use translations with schooltool?16:39
th1aSo I guess we *can* put it in the repository, but not under our self imposed terms of needing shared copyright for everything in the repos.16:39
th1aThat is, we couldn't *relicense* the translations.16:39
th1aAnd we don't want to mix those in the repository.16:40
ignasi see16:41
th1aSo I guess the answer is no.  How much of a practical advantage would it be?16:41
ignaswell, i would not have to deploy translations and schooltool separately all the time16:42
th1aOTOH, if it makes things easier, and it is a clearly defined block of code that we could exclude from a commercial distro, there is no legal reason we couldn't do it.16:42
th1aIt is all GPL, supposedly.16:43
ignasi guess rm -rf src/schooltool/locales for commercial distros would be enough16:43
th1ajinty:  Would this make our lives easier?16:43
jintycommitting the translations would save a lot of people a lot of time and frustration16:44
ignasand that's easier to special case rare usecase instead of special casing common usecases16:44
th1aOK... I'd vote that we should commit the translations to SVN until someone tells us not to.16:45
th1aBut it isn't illegal, or at least Canonical thinks it isn't.16:45
ignaswill we need a separate Licence.txt for locales directory ?16:46
ignasor any notes in README files ?16:46
th1aIt would not be a bad idea.16:47
th1a"Included translations are under the GNU General Public License, copyright their original author via"16:47
th1aSomething like that.16:47
th1aOK... let's try some updates from jfroche and ignas.16:49
th1ajfroche_: Would you like to go first?16:50
jfroche_playing with xml16:50
jfroche_creating the right info for the import16:50
jfroche_i see Denis tomorrow at the school16:51
jfroche_i will bring my serveur there16:51
jfroche_and begin to see what does really the software they are using now16:51
jfroche_will begin with denis to see what will be the plan for this year so16:51
th1aOK.  Are we focusing on Vauban first and La Futaie later?16:51
jfroche_Nicolas is quite diffucult to catch16:52
jfroche_and for the moment i work more with Denis16:52
th1aThat's fine.16:52
jfroche_but i ask Nicolas to provide to his director the paper we wrote to get the authorisations to work with their own student data16:52
jfroche_but i really would like to see at nicolas school cause i think they arent the same16:53
th1aNicolas's school is a good one for us because their report cards are INSANE.16:53
th1aAnd they way they create them is also insane.16:53
th1aSo we should be able to improve that process for them.16:54
th1aSo Vidas came up with a view that generated a big XML dump from Roundup?16:55
jfroche_right i will be able to tell you for Vauban in the next few days16:55
th1aI bet Vauban's grading system is more traditional.16:55
ignasth1a: no, Vidas got some very important university matters to attend to today16:56
th1aOK.  He's still working on it?16:56
jfroche_i got the xml doc from James Henstridge16:56
jfroche_i think i will be to generate it tonight16:56
ignasth1a: it will be better if jfroche_ will do it himself as he's got a Zope3 free solution underway16:57
th1aOh, OK.16:57
* jfroche_ happy :)16:57
th1ajfroche_: I'll have about an hour to discuss bugs today after the meeting.  I have to go to school to meet with the guy who is working on digital portfolios with the school.16:58
jfroche_ok as you want16:58
th1ajfroche_: What's the status with Vauban in terms of making this relationship formal?16:58
jfroche_i spoke about this with Denis16:59
jfroche_he told me that it should take a while ...16:59
jfroche_so i don't want to wait for them and continue16:59
jfroche_but i definitly need Nicolas to do the same soon cause i dont want to wait so long for his school17:00
th1aAnd how do you think we should proceed on the website?17:00
th1aI'm less worried about La Futaie, since we have an existing understanding with them.17:01
th1aThat is, I'm not worried that they'd freak out if we used their name.17:01
jfroche_for the schooltool.org17:03
th1aDo you need more specific instructions in the short term for the website, or do you know what the first steps are?17:03
jfroche_i v access to fs17:03
jfroche_i ll to create the dev instance17:03
jfroche_move thing to a product17:03
jfroche_commit it to svn17:03
jfroche_and we will have to see together about the structure17:04
jfroche_and maybe use back last version of PloneHelpCenter and PloneSoftwareCenter ?17:04
th1aUpdate them?17:04
th1aThat would be a good idea.17:04
jfroche_but i ll work first on the dev instance17:05
th1aI think I had problems when I tried that, but I can't remember for sure.17:05
jfroche_as soon as i have products ready on the dev i ll do the migrationS17:05
th1aAnything else blocking you now jfroche_?17:05
jfroche_no nothing for the moment17:06
jfroche_Denis isn't ill anymore so i see him tomorrow morning17:06
jfroche_will be able to tell you more there17:06
th1aI'm glad he's feeling better.17:06
th1aIgnas, you're up.17:06
ignaswhat i was doing: got an instance of trac running for lyceum, began working on a sane way to manage development+deployment cycele for schooltool, got some data import related issues resolved, got schooltool more or less lithuanian on lyceum snapshot, reviewed a small bit of jfroche's zope3 code17:06
ignasevaluated possible ways to improve schooltool to suite lyceum or just plainly work better17:07
jfroche_yep ignas was a great help for me, i v sooo many things so learn on z317:07
th1aIt is a bit of a climb, but it seems like you know the basics.17:08
ignasi am waiting for Aiste to translate the agreement17:08
ignasand i think about visiting Lyceum tomorow17:08
ignasto prioritize some stories17:08
ignasthe nearest milestone being "allow teachers and maybe students to log into the system"17:09
th1aVisiting is good.  You need to show your face or people will forget about you.17:09
Aisteignas: : I'm almost done with the translation17:09
ignasAiste: cool :)17:09
th1aAiste: Thanks!17:09
Aistebut I will need you to look through it and provide corrections :)17:09
Aisteand will also add some legalese at the end17:09
th1aBy the way, I appreciate any help you guys can give Ashik with his translation problems.  He's working on SchoolTool for the Nepalese government, so there is potentially a whole country depending on us nursing him through the process :-017:10
th1ajfroche_: Have you taken a look at the UI changes that ignas and vidas have been working on in their branch?17:11
th1aBasically it is consolidating changes we made at a sprint this summer.17:12
th1aMoving to a fairly standard tabbed interface.17:12
jfroche_not yet17:12
th1aIt would be a good idea for us to port components to the new design as you present them to the schools.17:13
th1aThat is, don't teach them the old UI.17:13
th1aDoes that seem feasible, ignas?17:14
ignasth1a: no, not really17:14
ignasunless we assume they will not be lookin at sections, courses and other admininstration related views17:15
th1aWell, we'll have to convert them sooner or later.17:15
ignasindeed, but with only me working on it, i am afraid I will have to seriously prioritize to deliver the crucial functionality first17:15
ignasand I am planning to let Lyceum decide what is important and what is not17:16
jfroche_which branch should i deploy first then at the schools ?17:16
ignasjfroche_: trunk is good enough i'd say17:16
ignasif Lyceum will want the new User interface sooner rather then later, i'll focus on the UI, but it depends on what they want17:17
th1ajfroche_: You should have a look at the UI branch though.17:18
th1aignas:  How much of your time do we have going forward?17:19
ignasi am not spending any time on other projects so more or less all my time belongs to schooltool (or Lyceum) at the moment17:20
ignaswhat bothers me is the not so finished UI contract17:20
ignasas i am only spending the time that I am not working on Lyceum stuff on UI at the moment17:21
ignasand i want to make them start using the system as soon as possible17:21
th1aIs there an end to the UI contract, or is it too vague?17:21
ignaswe don't have temporary tabs, and attendance views are not commited yet, though with the amount of time i am spending on it, it is a bit vague17:22
ignasi will talk to Vidas about it tomorow17:22
ignasto see what he thinks about it17:23
ignashe can give me a hand on this I think17:23
ignasso i would not have to abandon lyceum too much17:23
th1aOK.  Let me know if we need to more clearly define its limits.  When there is no end in sight it can be hard to move forward.17:23
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6432:17:24
povbot/svn/commits: Merge i18n changes to trunk.17:24
ignasjinty: can you add me to Schooltool team on launchpad, as apparently i can't upload translation templates17:24
ignas(i could add a release though which seems disturbing)17:25
th1aWell, I'm glad we've got things moving forward again.17:25
th1aThis long pause was depressing.17:25
th1aWorking with actual schools, I think we'll make some real progress.17:26
th1ajfroche_: So we're going to look at bugs in Roundup?17:27
jfroche_could we do it later ?17:27
jfroche_is it ok for you tomorrow same time ?17:27
th1aSame time as the meeting?17:28
th1aThat's good for me.17:28
th1aOK.  See you then.17:28
* th1a bangs the virtual bag of gravel.17:28
th1a(thus designating the official end of the meeting)17:31
ignasth1a: now can you dedicate some time to helping me fix the README.txt for locales stuff ?17:31
th1aSo are we writing a separate README.txt for that directory?17:31
ignaswe already have a clause stating: "All files in the src/schooltool directory (with some exceptions in src/schooltool/locales) are part of SchoolTool, and are (c) Shuttleworth Foundation."17:31
th1aThat's in the main README.txt?17:32
jintyignas: th1a is the admin of that group, I think he's gotta do it17:32
ignasth1a: can you make me a member of schooltool group in launchpad17:33
th1aI guess you've earned that privilege, ignas.17:33
ignasthank you :)17:33
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ignasso what should I change that clause into ?17:34
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th1aTake out the parenthetical "(with some exceptions..."17:35
ignasremove the whole (expression)?17:36
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th1aand add at the end ", with the exception of translations in src/schooltool/locales, which are under the copyright of their original contributors via LaunchPad at"17:37
th1aYes, remove the whole thing.17:37
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ignasctrl+alt+backpaced my X1117:38
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6433:17:41
povbot/svn/commits: Update licence statement in the readme.17:41
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th1aOh!  One thing I forgot to mention to jfroche_ and ignas...17:50
th1aThe two of you should pick a date for one of you to visit the other.  I have money to pay for that.17:50
ignasjfroche_: what do ya think about hawai ?17:51
th1aI don't have that much money ;-)17:51
ignasan international space station?17:52
jfroche_ignas: is full welcome is Belgium17:53
jfroche_ignas: is full welcome in Belgium17:53
ignasgood enough, probably :)17:53
jfroche_might be interested to see Lituania too one day (next europython for example ?)17:53
th1aYes, I'll budget for that.17:54
th1aAs well as bringing both of you to the US, probably for different sprints.17:54
th1aWho wants to come to PyCon?17:54
jfroche_very happy :)17:54
* jfroche_ is jumping up and down with his thumb up17:55
th1aAll the CanDo developers will be at PyCon, so we should bring one of you.17:55
mgedminjfroche_: use a smaller hammer17:55
jfroche_no but frankly i don't think i v the knowledge to participate in z3 sprint17:56
jfroche_i should learn first17:56
th1aWell, in the short term, if you and ignas want to work out a date to meet for a few days and get some Zope 3 lessons, let me know when.17:57
ignashmm, ok17:57
ignasi'll think about it seriously17:58
jfroche_same for me17:58
ignasi guess bootstraping project on all the schools is a priority at the moment though, but as soon as we'll be doing something, it should be pretty useful to meet and talk17:58
jfroche_right now is a bit too early17:59
th1aRight now is a good time to pick a date though so we can make plans.17:59
jfroche_november december ?18:07
th1aOne or the other?18:15
ignasi'll think of a few possible dates tomorrow as I have to take my studies into account, end of November seems like something suitable though, as i might have some exams just before Christmas (which makes December not very convenient)18:17
jfroche_ok tell me18:18
ignasth1a: will you add me to SchoolTool Owners, please?18:29
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ignasjinty: catch :)18:37
povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6434:18:38
povbot/svn/commits: Commit translations from rosetta to trunk.18:38
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povbot/svn/commits: * ignas committed revision 6435:18:42
povbot/svn/commits: Merge translations from trunk into lyceum branch.18:42
th1a_ignas: Sorry... spaced out on that.18:44
*** th1a_ is now known as th1a18:44
th1aI knew there was some reason I was logged onto LaunchPad.18:44
th1aignas: OK.  Done.18:47
ignasthank you18:47
ignaswhat's with the .pot files needing a review before getting added to the system ?18:57
th1aI don't know.19:05
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Lumierejinty: you here?21:38
jintyLumiere: yo21:38
LumiereI'm sitting here about to update a server with cando-05 on it21:38
Lumierewhich is using the old cando package on breezy21:39
LumiereI was just going to dist-upgrade to dapper... but I have realized that we still have a cando-06 package with the cando name21:39
Lumieresitting in the repository21:39
Lumiereso if I upgrade I'm gonna hose my 05 data21:39
jintyyes, you are right21:41
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Lumierecan we get that pulled out?21:42
jintyLumiere: we should re-upload the old package with a new epoch21:42
Lumiereand making sure the package has dapper deps?21:42
dwelshth1a:  you around.. welsh here21:42
th1ahi dwelsh21:42
dwelshcan I call you?21:42
th1aYou can call me.21:43
jintyLumiere: I'm not sure cando 05 is going to work on dapper21:43
Lumierenor am I...21:44
Lumiereit isn't horrible if that fails21:44
Lumierebut we're hoping to keep both side by side21:44
jintyI'll see if I can build the lod package in a dapper chroot with a new epoch21:45
Lumierethank you21:45
jinty(but be very careful about doing a dist-upgrade anyway. make backups!)21:45
Lumiereour dist-upgrades have been going very well21:46
Lumierebut I've been doing clean servers21:46
LumiereI'm a long time debian unstable user21:46
Lumiereso I know the pain of dist-upgrades21:46
jintythe last cando 05 package was version 2005.2.2-7???21:47
Lumierethat's what shows here21:47
LumierePackage: cando21:48
LumiereVersion: 2006.0.0~alpha1-221:48
Lumiereis the 06 version21:48
jintyLumiere: ok, I gotta build a dapper chroot first, this is going to take time.21:52
jintylike tomorrow at the earliest21:52
Lumierelet me check with welsh and have him read this quickly21:52
dwelshjinty: how hard to pkg. cando05 for dapper?22:09
dwelshjinty: how hard to22:10
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dwelshjinty: how hard to pkg. cando05 for dapper?22:11
dwelshsorry... connectivity little balky here22:11
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jintyLumiere: I'm uploading a package now to the dapper part of the cando repository.23:41
jintyyour milage may vary whether it works on dapper or not, but I think so.23:42
jintyif there is a problem, it'll probably be in the mismatch of zope versions, you might have to keep zope back.23:43
jintydwelsh: dunno, I've tried quickly. If you want me to spend a few hours on it, let me know.23:43
jintyI think we're gonna need to port some schooltool patches from the schooltool repository, and I think I know which ones.23:46

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