Firefly Tattoos



  • edited June 2017
    Yeah, I think I'd prefer no anti-migration coating too... To me the idea of being able to remove it easily is more valuable than having it placed in a very specific position (To me at least).

  • it's mostly about that for me, if it ever needed to come out, it would be much simpler.
  • I'd like one without anti-migration too. 
  • I have some very precise placement in mind under an existing tattoo, so anti-migration coating is definitely something I'm waiting for, and need.
  • I also do not want the anti-migration coating. Hopefully that's an option when v2 is ready for purchase. I thought the v2 was going to be the same height as v1 except just wider. The picture of v2 makes it look way longer. Isn't v1 3x18 and v2 5x18?
  • @Birdhandz I don't think I'll try putting one under the skin of a piece of meat, while you're right I did it for one of the very early tests while developing v1, now I know it's not a very representative test for live human skin. Also I'd have to throw the Firefly used for the test away afterwards, they cost a lot to make so  I'd rather not waste one just for an early sneak peak at what it may look like once implanted.

    @trybalwolf, Semilovr12 thanks, yes, length is roughly the same, the v2 are a little longer, but only 2-3 millimetres longer. The sides are 20mm long, but there is a little bump in the middle where the glass was sealed. Total size is 3x5x21mm.

    puzbiks1, trybalwolf, ChilliEye, Aeris, cancerian, Semilovr12:
    Sure, given so many people want one without the anti-migration coating, I'll make it available in two options, with and without the parylene anti-migration coating.

    I have some good-ish news, I got the needs large flat needles for injecting the v2, and it fits nicely! however the needle shaft is too short, it only just fits the Firefly inside. I don't think it can really inject the implant deep enough, the Firefly would be too near the incision site. It's not too big a deal, I can order longer needles, but it will delay things by a couple of weeks while I get the longer needles shipped to me.
    PS the needles are freaking huge 0_0, but I still think it's easier/nicer than using a scalpel etc. I'll post pics in a couple of days when I have time.
  • I'd be happy with the short needle like to be honest.
  • @AlexSmith I can't quite picture what the needle will look like but will they be marked in a way that prevents implanting it upside down?

    No problem about not sticking one in a piece of meat.  As much brighter as this V2 is than the first one, we know it will be visible anyway.

    This might have already been mentioned but are these autoclavable? 
  • edited July 2017
    ChilliEye It's better to wait for longer needles, using a very short needle would increase the risk of rejection while the implant is healing.

    Birdhandz You know, the question about autoclavablity is a good one. While I just assumed it would be fine since v1 was, I hadn't tested it, so today I ran one though the autoclave, it came out fine, so yes, v2 is also autoclavable.

    As for the right way to implant it, no, they are not labelled, but the needles are pretty obvious which side is "up". See the picture below. Once I get the longer needles the Firefly will be hidden inside, but the cut of the needle should make it clear which way to implant it.

  • Oh boy that doesnt look like a whole lot of fun to implant!

    Still looking forward to it though.
  • That's a needle. C_C
  • @Aeris, I agree to an extent. It does look like a lot of fun to *have implanted* but not sure I'd want to solo implant one of these like I did with the V1's...

    I do look forward to the day I can go to my piercer, whip this out, and say "jab me with this??". :3
  • Could we see a side by side with the v1 and the v2 injector needles? what is the size of the opening, I'm guessing 7 or 8mm?
  • That is a needle of nightmares!

    @AlexSmith did you get a final reading on radiation output for the V2? That looks like an awfully scary amount of glowing green stuff to stick under your skin for a while... would be nice to know what the risks were besides passing out trying to stick that gigantic needle through your skin.
  • @DACPA  all that stuff has been talked about in the verrry beginning  link :
  • @Dragon5 yes I was part of that discussion way back then but he did finalize the product now and may have made some other adjustments. It is pretty standard in manufacturing to give a confirmation of final outcomes on specifications. I'm not really expecting a big change. 
  • edited July 2017

    ^^ I don't know if your looking for more recent than this. But this should be a pretty good indicator.
  • I look forward to seeing how the first V2 implants go. Considering placing one on the outside of either bicep as I have a tattoo design I'm working on that has an open space there... Seems like a neat way to use the open space. Can't wait to see how bright they are!
  • @Zebula

    That was the most recent post I saw. He also indicated that he would post results again after getting the final version. I am curious if the results changed or were measurably different than the first time. It would seem to me that it would be possible if those previous results were some kind of outlier or something. It seems hard to believe that the large wad of radioactive material would somehow negate the background radiation. If so, then we should be sticking this underneath every bit of skin that we have. NASA and the other international space agencies should be very interested as this is an existential problem for interstellar travel. I'm just saying it might be nice to get a final check before just accepting the last results.

    Maybe it's a bit paranoid? I dunno... otherwise, if it holds up, that would be a very interesting bit of scientific advancement and make for some rad changes in the human body that weren't just cosmetic.
  • I'll want at least 2 !migration coated ones... Now just a question of aesthetics.
  • Got the larger needles yet?
  • Any news?
  • edited July 2017
    @Alexsmith also ravenously waiting! o3o

    @DACPA It's not the Tritium Phosphor reducing the radiation; just to break down it's construction a little, there's a few components in this setup that relate to radiation;

    - Tritium gas emits beta radiation, which excites the phosphor to emit photons. The tritium itself is emitting a tiny fraction of even background radiation's fluctuations,, it is like comparing a shot of liquor to downing half the bottle, if you want to compare background radiation to a firefly's radioactivity. c_c Keep in mind I don't drink though.  

    - Undersheet of Pb. Lead. Lead soaks radiation like... Lead soaking up radiation. It's one of many things lead is very good at doing, being the dense metal it is.

    - One of the three layers of glass, sandwiched between two protective layers of Borosilicate, is Lead Oxide. See the above for lead.

    No complaints against a final check. ^^ but do keep in mind, Lead is pretty well established for a few key traits. 

    One, being it's density and capacity to block things VERY well. :3 It's also EXTREMELY dense (Thus NASA's shyness to use... Weight does not go well with aeronautics...), and the other danger of lead being it's toxicity. In this case, it's well isolated from the body with a shell of borosilicate, but if it was left free, it would very quickly cause lead poisoning. Which... I don't need to be intimately familiar with medical knowledge to tell you is very dangerous and bad for your health. ^^'

  • i took my fireflies(2) out after researching bremsstrahlung radiation, it probably isn't dangerous but i didn't like the idea of my blood being constantly being exposed to anything

    here's a short video on it 

  • Well there is a listing on the site now, says coming soon. lol.
  • @actii isn't the bremsstrahlung radiation what's happening here? >~>

    Um.... what I mean is, tritium emits beta radiation. The beta radiation hits the phosphor it's contained with and the beta is slowed down, generating bremsstrahlung radiation in the form of emitted photons. ^^

    Not saying ALL of the beta is being used in this way, but guessing a sizeable amount. The other beta that hits either the Pb backplate or the PbO shell is probably emitting a little bit past, but again, nothing significant, methinks.

    Specific to the firefly... @aviin ran one through a Geiger counter. :D
  • @zerbula  i am pretty sure a Geiger counter needs to be modified to expose the tube to be sensitive enough to detect the xrays produced from bremsstrahlung radiation, i dunno, i am not really a nuclear physicist, but i did worry about exposing my blood xrays constantly, 

    i had read a few papers on photo-toxicity and x-irradiation of hemoglobin (while drunk) and couldn't find anything really conclusive, so i took them out. but as you say we are being xrayed all the time so they are likely safe as a walk in the park
  • edited July 2017
    My thoughts is if a geiger counter isn't sensitive enough to pick it up without being modified, where we have enough measured amounts of radiation to not be considered harmful from an unmodified counter, with measurable amounts a magnitude higher abundantly around us... ^^

    The only qualm I would have it all about the radiation that a firefly outputs is that we don't get skin to shield. But by the same token, how much shielding would the skin provide us against something higher?

    I'm still honestly more afraid of the abundant radiation from life around us, then I would be the miniscule amount that a firefly has been measured to put out that we need to cannibalize a counter to find. ^^

    I think my dentist is the leading cause of radiation in my life. Or my cell phone. ~3~

    Please also consider this is just my uninformed opinion. Anybody is welcome to call me out if I'm wrong, though. I think I'm right. :3
  • edited July 2017
    sorry for not updating, recently a major non-biohacking job as been taking all my time.

    Semilovr12 Here is a comparison picture of the injectors, the new ones are 6x4mm



    I'll do a full write up including all the testing data before they go on sale, that way you can see the raw data. But the tl;dr is the final results are virtually the same as the initial ones (not surprisingly, since the tritium, glass and lead all same from the same sources).
    Also, it's not he tritium blocking the background radiation, it's the literal sheet of lead stuck to the back of the tritium capsule. Which is exactly what NASA/hospitals etc already use to protect from radiation (although maybe less often for NASA since lead weighs so much it's expensive to get into orbit).

    ChilliEye No :( I still don't have the final needles yet, I can't get them shipped directly to me .... for reasons. I had to get them shipped to Canada first, then sent to me, but I am expecting them to arrive any day now.

    I also discovered a couple of other issues, the first is the protective caps that go on the end of the injector don't fit with the larger needles :( I'm looking into other options.
    Also, the the normal injectors come with a little dab of adhesive to to hold the implant in the needle. This is because they were made for injecting RFID chips into animals. The needles I'm now using are professional piercing needles, they are much sharper, making it easer to implant, but don't come with the adhesive... I am looking for sources of adhesive to stop the Firefly from sliding out of the needle during shipping.

    actii fair enough. It's hard to tell how much of a risk Bremsstrahlung radiation is, the official documentation just says tritium lights emit "Low levels of Bremsstrahlung radiation" without giving details on how much etc.
    The GM-10 Geiger Counter used for testing is able to detect x-ray radiation, any Bremsstrahlung radiation should already be accounted for in the final radiation readings anyway.

    That's the end of the update for now, I have to get back to other work. I'll post again once the needles arrive.
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