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And Neil Armstrong could possibly have not been the first man to step on the moon. Some aspects of the mission were ultimately out of his hands despite his skill as an astronaut.

You have to interrogate the underlying reasons for things.

The simple and uneducated mob has all too regularly lynched an innocent man throughout history.

Just stating the obvious ... not asking for his lynching ... but need to question everything about this footy club of ours & how easy we have unraveled again...reality is 1 finals appearance in 13 seasons...another false dawn? We have seen plenty of them. We have a softness in that footy club which they can’t rid themselves of!

I know Lyon is a dirty word around here but he's said on SEN that Goodwin got a pass because of last year but that it's "coming next year", which I assume he means the pressure.

Hardly breaking news but you'd have to say he has until round 12 next year.

He ought to already be answering the "please explain ". Injuries are one thing ( but this in turn begs a question ) but having NFI about a modem effective game is something else.

Simon to his credit was a bit inventive but was tempered by his then Snr in Roos. Since then, and since coming under the nefarious swami-like influencesof his fellow FD he has yet to display a game that actually works. He briefly used sheer aggressive ( body killing ) British Buldog footy to overwhelm some teams but that was soon found out and exploited. To say nothing of the collateral damage ....the same damage that's hamstrung the team this year.

He has a contract that some [censored] gave him prematurely so he'll be ours for far too now. Round 12....your dreaming.

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He ought to already be answering the "please explain ". Injuries are one thing ( but this in turn begs a question ) but having NFI about a modem effective game is something else.

Simon to his credit was a bit inventive but was tempered by his then Snr in Roos. Since then, and since coming under the nefarious swami-like influencesof his fellow FD he has yet to display a game that actually works. He briefly used sheer aggressive ( body killing ) British Buldog footy to overwhelm some teams but that was soon found out and exploited. To say nothing of the collateral damage ....the same damage that's hamstrung the team this year.

He has a contract that some [censored] gave him prematurely so he'll be ours for far too now. Round 12....your dreaming.

All true BUT he'll be 3.5 years into his coaching career, excluding 2016 when he essentially took on game day duties, when we reach round 12 2020. If we're in the same position as we were in at round 12 this year, he will be gone.

The variables have saved him this year and that's reasonable. But he won't have those excuses. A contract extension to 2022 was a mistake. But that doesn't mean he won't be let go.

This year has been an onfield disaster but the full effect won't be felt until next year. Thankfully we have Anzac Eve and QB home games. But we're due for fewer prime time and friday night games after earning them for this year. This impacts the bottom line, sponsorship dollars, etc.

It might actually reach a point where paying him out and sacking him is more financially viable than keeping him on. A contract is one thing. The overall impact to the bottom line is another. The game is bigger now than the team itself. We are staring down the barrel of a bottom 2 finish. It's utterly disastrous for the club broadly. For its vision.

Last year, missing finals would have been classed a failure. This year was the same. But the second worst team in the league? It's a colossal failure by the FD.

Contract or not we can't afford to stay the course if nothing changes by midpoint next season. IMO the club should already be testing the waters for possible replacements as a just in case.

I honestly feel the club is putting more external pressure on itself by using the injuries/pre-season as an excuse. If we get a proper preseason next year and a clean run on injuries but still serve up this garbage, then the whole AFL media/sponsors/supporters will be on our back. The build up of pressure could force an early exit for Goodwin.

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I know Lyon is a dirty word around here but he's said on SEN that Goodwin got a pass because of last year but that it's "coming next year", which I assume he means the pressure.

Hardly breaking news but you'd have to say he has until round 12 next year.

That's fair. If we have a better run with injuries and a pretty clear pre-season, and we're struggling at the bye, then he will be under pressure.

However, I think he does get a 'pass', for lack of a better term, as we've had a horror run with injuries, stemming from the pre-season right through to now. It seems like every time we get someone back on the park we lose two more. Just look at this week - we got Lever, Jetta and Gawn back into the side, but lost Tom Mac and Weideman (I feel like we lost someone else through injury but can't for the life of me think who it is right now).

Anyway, hopefully we've learnt plenty from not only the season, but from the pre-season as well, and we can have a relatively stress free build up to 2020.

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Rubbish. Wrong from the very first sentence when he makes the ridiculous, and frankly laughable, assertion goody has NFI about a modem effective game'

If the bloke had NFI then he wouldn't have coached us to the improvement we showed in both 2017 and 2018. Yes, this year has been a bit of a shocker for a variety of reasons, but there have been a number of coaches who have had years like this and bounced back not long after. I'll back Goody in to do the same.

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If the bloke had NFI then he wouldn't have coached us to the improvement we showed in both 2017 and 2018. Yes, this year has been a bit of a shocker for a variety of reasons, but there have been a number of coaches who have had years like this and bounced back not long after. I'll back Goody in to do the same.

Or could last year have been merely a further step forward in the natural progression of a young and highly talented list?

How much was due to the coach, and how much to players improving / favourable fixture / injury list / other factors?

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I honestly feel the club is putting more external pressure on itself by using the injuries/pre-season as an excuse. If we get a proper preseason next year and a clean run on injuries but still serve up this garbage, then the whole AFL media/sponsors/supporters will be on our back. The build up of pressure could force an early exit for Goodwin.

I'm not sure if it is putting more external pressure on but I truly hope they don't fall for it.

It's not just the injury problems that are causing our current predicament.

Yes they are an issue but not the only one.

Sometimes clubs believe their own BS, please let it not be us.

As a supporter it's why I would like us to have an external review just to be sure we have all the issues on the table.

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If the bloke had NFI then he wouldn't have coached us to the improvement we showed in both 2017 and 2018. Yes, this year has been a bit of a shocker for a variety of reasons, but there have been a number of coaches who have had years like this and bounced back not long after. I'll back Goody in to do the same.

Lets face it much of the criticism he cops in this thread is related to some perceived notion his game plan doesn't stack up. Who knows that may prove to be the case. Or it may not. There are too many things that went wrong this year to make an accurate judgement on a that. Opinion, yes, reliable assessment no.

It will be interesting to wacth the tigers as they progress towards the finals. They have the most analogous game plan to ours and are rolling along nicely and with their lat six games at the G are a real chance at top 4 and with that winning a flag. Like us they made a prelim lat year and of course won the flag the previous year. As evidence of a game plan working that's not bad.

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Lets face it much of the criticism he cops in this thread is related to some perceived notion his game plan doesn't stack up. Who knows that may prove to be the case. Or it may not. There are too many things that went wrong this year to make an accurate judgement on a that. Opinion, yes, reliable assessment no.

It will be interesting to wacth the tigers as they progress towards the finals. They have the most analogous game plan to ours and are rolling along nicely and with their lat six games at the G are a real chance at top 4 and with that winning a flag. Like us they made a prelim lat year and of course won the flag the previous year. As evidence of a game plan working that's not bad.

The Tiges game plan has changed, and anyway you can't relate them to us.

Different game plan and different mix of personnel.

They lost a prelim badly and made changes.

We lost ours badly and stuck with the same.

Our game plan doesn't stack up...it's there for all to see.

It's an accurate assessment backed up by where we sit on the ladder now.

The ladder doesn't lie...

You could see it last year in the Prelim, not just this year.

If we go into next year playing the same brand of footy we are f......

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I don't think our game style has really changed. Last year we had the most inside 50's and 2nd most clearances. This year 2nd most I50's and 5th most clearances.

So we can win the ball and get it inside 50 plenty but as we all know this year that hasn't converted into winning scores, nor efficient scores in general.

I think teams figured this out watching our losing games last year that the way to beat us was to almost let us get the ball in there, and repeat entry the hell out of it, with the view that one quick kick or handball to a running player out of our forward 50, would result in an easy goal out the back.

I think teams have figured out how to play us better and as such we need to adapt our game style.

Whether this is a result of the 6-6-6 rule I don't know, but 666 sure is an evil number.....

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The Tiges game plan has changed, and anyway you can't relate them to us.

Different game plan and different mix of personnel.

They lost a prelim badly and made changes.

We lost ours badly and stuck with the same.

Our game plan doesn't stack up...it's there for all to see.

It's an accurate assessment backed up by where we sit on the ladder now.

The ladder doesn't lie...

You could see it last year in the Prelim, not just this year.

If we go into next year playing the same brand of footy we are f......

How do you think the tiger's game plan has changed?

I would argue it has changed very little - and is very similar to ours as it stands at the moment. They may maintain the ball a bit more, but so do we but by and large they are playing a very similar game style as they did last year.

A big difference between them and us is this year they are way better hitting targets inside 50, have in Lynch a focus who has been marking the ball (unlike us) and small forward who kick goals, get ground balls and apply excellent forward pressure (again unlike us).

But open to being convinced otherwise.

Meanwhile the Roos are flourishing with a quick transition, quick ball movement, repeat entries, contested ball game plan that shares many similarities to the tigers's game plan and the one we employed so successfully last year. Dogs employ a similar style.

The jury is out on the West Coast game style involving huge spread, switching and maintaining the ball with kick/marks. Yes they won the flag last year. But that was last year abut the game moves on. That said contested ball will always have a place in the heat of finals.

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I don't think our game style has really changed. Last year we had the most inside 50's and 2nd most clearances. This year 2nd most I50's and 5th most clearances.

So we can win the ball and get it inside 50 plenty but as we all know this year that hasn't converted into winning scores, nor efficient scores in general.

I think teams figured this out watching our losing games last year that the way to beat us was to almost let us get the ball in there, and repeat entry the hell out of it, with the view that one quick kick or handball to a running player out of our forward 50, would result in an easy goal out the back.

I think teams have figured out how to play us better and as such we need to adapt our game style.

Whether this is a result of the 6-6-6 rule I don't know, but 666 sure is an evil number.....

Remember back in Feb when some of us (me??) thought it was Gawn taps it to Viney/Oliver/Brayshaw for Weid Tmac to mark and for Lever, May and Nev to repel everything.... things were meant to be simple!

I would argue it has changed very little - and is very similar to ours as it stands at the moment. They may maintain the ball a bit more, but so do we but by and large they are playing a very similar game style as they did last year.

A big difference between them and us is this year they are way better hitting targets inside 50, have in Lynch a focus who has been marking the ball (unlike us) and small forward who kick goals, get ground balls and apply excellent forward pressure (again unlike us).

But open to being convinced otherwise.

Meanwhile the Roos are flourishing with a quick transition, quick ball movement, repeat entries, contested ball game plan that shares many similarities to the tigers's game plan and the one we employed so successfully last year. Dogs employ a similar style.

The jury is out on the West Coast game style involving huge spread, switching and maintaining the ball with kick/marks. Yes they won the flag last year. But that was last year abut the game moves on. That said contested ball will always have a place in the heat of finals.

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The other thing you've mentioned is teams with the personnel to match the game style...

The Tiges have changed their style around bringing in Lynch for one, they are nowhere near as ballistic as they were in their Premiership season.

They've also adjusted their defence with the loss of Rance.

Sorry that doesn't convince me they have changed their style.

I acknowledged they have adjusted it and tinkered at the edges, just as we have. But their game plan remains much the same as it was last year. Maybe not quite as ballistic (yet), but their game plan is still based on quick transition, quick ball movement, repeat entries, forward 50 pressure and contested ball. it differs significantly to that of the Pies and West Coast and as i said is the most analogous to our game plan (not exactly the same, but very similar).

On their defence they still sue interceptors and a zone defense, just use other players than rance obviously.

Funnily enough in some ways their introduction of Lynch has made their game style more like ours if anything.

And on personnel we have built our list around our preferred game style so have the right players. They just have been not fit or injured. Or both.

But given finals are out what is the point of trying another game style, particularly one we certainly don't have the players for (ie one that requires excellent field kicks and outside pace). If Goody is convince he has the right game plan than much better to stay the course and keep working on it.

Personally i am not sure if Goody is right or wrong. But i trust his judgement. And time will tell.

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