3 worked at Heliodrom for a long time and that you contributing to
4 establishing the organisation in the prison, so you worked for a long time
5 without having any official title. You wrote reports and acted in place
6 of the warden when necessary, and you were aware of hierarchy and the
7 military police and so on. Now, my question is this: Why were you not
8 officially appointed for a long time? Was it because the hierarchy in the
9 military police was such that they did not think you competent enough,
10 regardless of your qualification, or did you have some other secret
11 assignment? Were you on a secret mission given to you by the military
12 police officials that you had to implement without drawing attention to
13 yourself? Or perhaps there was some other reason that you can tell the
14 Chamber of, and that you can explain to us why you were not appointed from
15 the very beginning.
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As for an answer to the question,
17 the book that was shown a moment ago, there wasn't a post called deputy
18 warden. So I was not able to be assigned that role. The post didn't
19 exist, and I couldn't be appointed to a post that didn't in actual fact
20 exist. But I performed the task in an advisory capacity because I had
21 permission to do that from the warden himself, who was Mile Pusic, and so
22 that's how I introduced myself and that's how I signed my name, although I
23 do think I had a great deal of experience in prison affairs.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] To follow up from my fellow
25 Judge's question, which was a very precise question, and I'm not sure that
Page 14661
1 you're replying specifically enough, in February -- let's imagine this:
2 In February, the international community, the ICRC, for example, the
3 European Union or some well-known personage comes to the prison. Let's
4 take that as a hypothesis. Who would go and greet them, greet this
5 high-ranking visitor as being the person responsible in the prison to
6 receive visitors? Would that have been you?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, as I did do in fact at that
8 time.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] It's quarter to 4.00. We're
10 going to take a 20-minute break and reconvene at five minutes past 4.00.
11 --- Recess taken at 3.45 p.m.
12 --- On resuming at 4.06 p.m.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Scott.
14 MR. SCOTT:
15 Q. All right. Mr. Praljak, I'd like to move forward, please, from
16 the document that we were just looking at and turning, in fact, back to
17 the question -- some of the questions that the President was raising
18 earlier today.
19 As we move into 1993 and after Mr. Bozic returned as we saw in the
20 last document at approximately the end of March, so we're focusing on that
21 period forward, please, is it correct that under -- at that time you, Mr.
22 Bozic, and Mr. Smiljanic, were you all HVO military police, or did you
23 consider yourself all to be HVO military police?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And we're going to come at some point very soon to the
Page 14662
1 organisational changes that took place in June, but we're not there yet.
2 Prior to June 1993, is it fair to say that the Heliodrom prison
3 administration was essentially a -- what might be called an independent or
4 self-standing unit?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And Mr. Bozic was the head of that unit, is that fair to say?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And who was Mr. Bozic's superior during that time period?
9 A. Mr. Valentin Coric.
10 Q. Now, you said a few minutes ago or earlier this afternoon that
11 around June of 1993 the 5th Battalion of military police was organised,
12 and part of that organisation, the 1st Company, became associated with the
13 Heliodrom prison in some way; is that correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Can you briefly describe to the Judges what happen at that time
16 and how that affected the organisation or structure of the Heliodrom
17 prison administration?
18 A. In June the 5th Battalion of the military police was established
19 with Ivan Antic [phoen] as commander. At that time this prison where I,
20 Bozic, Smiljanic, and the guard service worked became attached to one of
21 the companies of that battalion as a Security Platoon. The commander of
22 the company was Mr. Luka Sunjic.
23 Q. All right. Several questions about that. During this time and
24 again following up on questions asked by the Judges earlier, did you,
25 though, Mr. Bozic, yourself, Mr. Smiljanic, all continue to be members of
Page 14663
1 the military police, and were you paid your salary from the military
2 police throughout this period?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Can you tell the Judges, please, in terms of how the Heliodrom
5 prison was actually run on a day-to-day basis, did the involvement or the
6 association with the 1st Company of the 5th Battalion military police have
7 any actual direct impact on the day-to-day structure and operations of the
8 prison?
9 A. Work at the prison continued as before, with the proviso that we
10 addressed Mr. Luka Sunjic, commander of the company, with requests for
11 assistance in logistics, namely to increase the number of policemen so
12 that the security of the detainees would be improved.
13 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me. Mr. Praljak, I would like to clarify
14 something. It's perhaps just linguistic. First, and that would be on
15 page 38, line 22, you spoke of a Security Platoon under Mr. Luka Sunjic.
16 Later you speak, on page 39, line 11, of a company. To my military
17 knowledge, you have a battalion, then the company, and the platoon is --
18 is lower. Now, was this a company or was it a platoon?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We, the prison, were a platoon, like
20 a platoon, and we belonged to the company led by Commander Luka Sunjic.
21 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
22 MR. SCOTT:
23 Q. Sir, is it correct then that from an administrative and logistics
24 perspective you were treated as a platoon as a -- excuse me, as a platoon
25 of the 1st Company, 5th Battalion military police?
Page 14664
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. But just to further clarify on this, for instance, can you tell
3 the Judges at any time in 1993 did you ever see Luka Sunjic actually
4 come to the prison, actually come and do any business at the Heliodrom
5 prison?
6 A. I never saw Luka Sunjic at Heliodrom, only at the military police,
7 in his office.
8 MR. SCOTT: If I could have the assistance of the usher to put
9 something on the ELMO that I will be asking for an IC number for,
10 Your Honours.
11 Q. If you can look at that, what's been placed on the ELMO next to
12 you, sir, if you can see that.
13 Sir, can you just look at this drawing and -- which is based on a
14 handwritten diagram that you had shown me, does this -- is this an
15 accurate representation or presentation of the structure of the Heliodrom
16 prison administration for the period April-November 1993?
17 A. Yes.
18 MR. MURPHY: Just so we're clear, Your Honours, Mr. Scott's
19 question intended to ask about the de jure position or the witness's own
20 personal understanding of what the structure is?
21 MR. SCOTT: Fair enough, Your Honour. I'll ask further questions
22 of the witness -- from the witness.
23 Q. Just building on the question I put to you a moment ago, sir --
24 well, several things you've said so far, if I understand you correctly,
25 and, if I don't, I'm sure I'll be corrected. Around June 1993 the prison
Page 14665
1 unit was attached to the 1st Company, 5th Battalion military police for
2 administrative and logistical purposes; is that correct?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And then you told us -- also told us a few moments ago that in
5 fact Mr. Sunjic, who is not actually indicated on the chart but the
6 commander of the 1st Company, did I understand you to testify that you
7 never saw Mr