 23rd April and there is a suggestion that the new Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions unveiled last week will cause issues as the Traffic Signs manual has yet to be brought up to reflect this new move.
We all want to reduce clutter but let's look first at signs that really are obsolete. A traffic engineer said to me over 30 years ago that a road sign was something that someone would drive into, a drunk would swing from and a yob would deface. The idea behind all this is not the speed issue but the saving of expenses in maintaining unecessary signs so the less we have the more money for real issues.
Peter City of Westminster
-7
Will. I am afraid you are wrong on several counts.
The change is actually that where a local speed limit is set then it is at the Traffic Authority's discretion as to how and whether repeater signs are used. Indeed that change is what this article references.
Since 2011 20mph repeater signs and carriageway roundels have been classed as "Traffic Calming Devices" and can be used in conjunction with physical calming devices. There needs to be a minimum of just one physical device in a 20mph zone.
If a 20mph limit has any physical traffic calming then it should be signed as a zone.
Rod King, Cheshire, 20's Plenty for Us
-9
Street lights mean 30 so will not be repeated. It has been illegal for a highways authority to repeat a 30 on roads which are street lit, I'm not sure how this legislation change will affect this point. If local residents have asked for street lighting to be removed, that street or village will need to have the 30 repeater signs. A road without street lights and with no signage to tell you otherwise will be a National Speed Limit road. It is illegal for a highways authority to repeat a N.S.L., just as with the 30, unless there are street lights in which case repeaters will be needed to show that the speed limit is not 30.
If the speed limit is anything other than N.S.L. or 30 it must be repeated. The exception to this is the 20 Zone which must be designed to be'self-governing' by the use of regular traffic calming features, such as mini roundabouts, speed humps and tables, pinch points, chicanes... 20 limits must be repeated but will not necessarily have traffic calming.
Will R. Birmingham
+12
Without repeater signs then all it takes is one 30mph sign to be damaged/lost/stolen and the entire stretch suddenly appears to have the limit of the preceding stretch, whether that's a NSL leading into an identical 50mph stretch, 50 into a 40 or whatever.
Rod Jones, 50's Nifty in Blaenau Gwent
+49
The reality of the situation is that too high a proportion of motorists drive around without any interest in the prevailing speed limit - or much else for that matter. Having tunnel vision, their eyes do not stray beyond a forward path of visibility, no wider than the width of their vehicle, so any signs and more importantly, other road users, are not seen unless and until they're immediately in front of them - hence another collision in the making.
The need to take in their immediate environment, including warnings and legal requirements via signage and markings and others on the road is almost an alien concept to them and has no place in their 'busy' lives. These are the poor 'otherwise law abiding' motorists who have clearly been 'tricked' by the authorities into speeding and the last time they took an interest in speed limits was no doubt the night before their driving test when they looked at the Highway Code. Worrying, but true - I've met them.
Hugh Jones
-2
My instinct is to applaud this change...for the sensible majority, driving slower is the simple option when in doubt. For those that want absolute certainty and think'speed limit' means'speed target', maybe it's easier to have 20mph as the default speed in lit streets.
Adrian Berendt, 20's Plenty for Kent
-79
With the constant increase in road traffic it seems to me that a default speed limit set in the 1930s is completely out of date. There is ample evidence that 20mph limits are much safer for vulnerable road users and that they support increases walking and cycling for all ages groups and this is something which the government is committed to supporting. Time for a default national speed limit of 20mph in all residential areas.
Jane Wiltshire
-71
"It is not an exemption to the rules of law. Drivers must always abide by speed limits and have a responsibility to know what the speed limit is on any section of road".
No signage on speed limits means ambiguity, when the penalties and enforcement is moving in the other direction. Out dated sat navs showing higher speed limits are common today as a large amount of the road network has had its speed limit dropped in recent years not helping matters.
As stated by other commenters I do wonder if the "rules" of the road are being designed to criminalise the otherwise law abiding and reduce the ability of people to get around. Money seems to be at the heart of the issue, many years of lack of investment in the bigger picture and just worrying about signs and speed humps as its cheaper than sorting inherent problems in the road layouts.
Steve Armstrong, Halifax UK.
+53
R. Craven
It is not an exemption to the rules of law. Drivers must always abide by speed limits and have a responsibility to know what the speed limit is on any section of road. Where a speed limit changes this is indicated by a 0.6m diameter sign at the side of the road. The concept of repeater signs comes from the previous century when locally set limits were few and far between. With the majority of the largest 40 urban authorities, 75% of Inner London boroughs and many other cities and counties setting 20mph for most urban roads then drivers would be well advised to limit their speed to 20mph unless they are sure the limit is 30.
Rod King, Cheshire, 20's Plenty for Us
-62
The government seem to have confused the plethora of unnecessary street signs with essential speed limit signs. Given that speed limits increasingly don't match the road layout, it is not so easy to guess what the speed limit actually is. A backward step that will lead to more inadvertent speeding offences. And No, 20mph is not the default limit for urban areas. The poll question is straightforward - not 3 questions in one where one part of the question loads the answer.
Paul Biggs, Staffordshire
+62
You are missing the point. It does not simply extend to the speed limit (could be 20 or 30 or any other speed, of course), but it potentially extends to bus lanes, road markings that have worn out, pedestrian crossings, junctions and all the other signs. I do not have a problem with speed restrictions, but I do have a problem for mile upon mile where I might have missed a main sign and there are street lights. I will be travelling at 30 mph whereas I could be travelling at a higher speed limit. This will fustrate other road users. It is of particular concern for travellers in tourist regions - and let's face it, due to the density of populace these days, at "changeover" day, it seems that the man and his dog are on the roads.
AJG - Mid Wales
+57
As I understand the present law there is no legal requirement for any repeater signs for an urban 30mph hour limit as it is blanket cover. So having passed that first sign and seeing no more a motorist would assume that it is still 30mph until he sees otherwise. There is presently legislation that requires anything other than 30mph to have repeater signs at frequent intervals. Now we have 20 mph limits and that seems to now not be the case and is therefore an exemption to the rules of law. The LA have been given the responsibility and authority to decide whether they should or should not implement a repeater sign. Sad state of affairs. Maybe the government have done this to alleviate any responsibility for this unpopular piece of legislation.
R.Craven Blackpool
+52
I am not sure that the above poll accurately reflects what has changed. As far as I am aware local authorities now have discretion as to the use of repeater signs based on the details of the site/road in question. Hence it could decide that a repeater sign half way up a 20mph cul-de-sac was not required whilst one on a wider road was required. Discretion to use repeaters on a case by case basis as in the new TSRGD is very different from the "power not to use repeater signs" as a policy. Perhaps the poll results would be more informative if the question were changed.
Rod King, Cheshire, 20's Plenty for Us
-19
Surely things could be simplified further; back in 1930 Leslie Hoar-Beletia gave us the default street lights = 30 no lights = no limit. OK I accept the need for the national speed limit and there is enough evidence to prove 20 is far more preferable to the vulnerable road users in our people places than 30 so the new standard rule:- Street lights = 20, no lights = national speed limit. Simple, elegant and an instant end to confusion on roads such as the A38 from the M5 to Bristol airport.
Damian Lee, Devon
-40
Without blanket 20mph enforcement there is going to be problems not only in policing it, if it is ever going to be policed, but in the number of incidents that may occur because drivers will have no absolute understanding or knowledge of what the speed limit is.