 by C.F.W. Walther? You and Kirk have an obvious passion for reaching the lost. You rightly see problems in “decision theology,” but the problems are not merely methodological. The problems would still be there even if it had succeeded in keeping more people in church.
Does that makes sense? Even if something DOES succeed numerically – and the Law can be highly successful in that regard – “decision theology” is still BAD theology. And since we are speaking of God’s surgery on the soul – so to speak – it behooves us as “under-doctors” to make sure of our instruments. To do less is spiritual malpractice. So, while I appreciate Kirk’s zeal for reaching the lost, I’d want to make sure that the Gospel is being purely taught and the Sacraments are being properly confessed, as Em has expressed.
God’s Peace as you go through Holy Week.
Pr. Rick Sawyer
Hi Pastor & Emily,
Thanks for your comment. I don't know how we missed it but..Iam an LCMS Lutheran. I thought I wrote that early on somewhere in the blog. I am not sure what I said that would make someone think I was a Calvinist. If I did...I stand corrected on whatever that may have been. Livingwaters & The Way of the Master ministries are essentially students of Luther's works. Sure they have some doctrinal differences but not in the understanding of salvation or how we preach a law and Gospel message. In Fact their "Basic Training Evangelism Course" is being used throughout the Missouri Synod and very often by congregations who are serious about ABLAZE and the critical event. St Louis Seminary has also employed the way of the Master training principles as seminarians are out on the streets of St. louis learning to witness one-to one through cross pollination ministries/Rev. Brad Aldrich- LCMS. When it comes to Law and Gospel and the use of the law/ Gospel WOM & LW are in harmony with Lutheran Theology. My beef isnt theological it's about mis-representing the movie- that's it. Later this summer the Pacific Southwest District will be hosting workshops on Fireproof. Their workshop leaders do not see any decision theology in the movie. Your time my time and Emily's time is best spent preparing for Holy week. Thanks for sending me your message. Bruce- (1 Peter 3:15) Your, partner in serving others and sharing God's Word.
Hey, Bruce. Sorry for the misunderstanding. As I said, I haven't been following things too closely.
I don't know Way of the Master or Living Waters, but I'll check into them. Please be aware, however, that simply because something is being used in the LCMS does not make it kosher!
I learned one-on-one evangelism using Kennedy's Evangelism Explosion back in the early '80's. Clearly, there were serious theological flaws in that system of outreach. But I certainly learned some things. Not everything in a theologically flawed system is worthless.
Would LW and WOM acknowledge the importance of baptizing infants?
In your conversation with Kirk, did you ask him whether he has baptized his children, and whether that happened in their infancy?
Maybe Kirk, LW and WOM do understand the Gospel to the degree that they baptize infants. If so, I am glad. Apart from at least that, I'd have no confidence in their truly understanding Law and Gospel. Also, we'd need to find out where they are on the Real Presence of Christ's Body and Blood in the Bread and the Wine, as well as Confession/Absolution.
These aren't adjuncts to the Gospel, Bruce, as you know. They are articles of it, and when anyone removes one of these key articles, their grasp on the Gospel is necessarily weakened.
I mean, if Kirk DOESN'T believe in infant baptism, then WHY? Because he doesn't believe babies can believe? Because he doesn't believe babies are sinful and by nature objects of wrath?
IF - and I say if because I don't know where he stands on this - If Kirk does not agree with infant baptism, then all that he says about Law and Gospel is suspect.
After all, a PROPER understanding of the Law and Gospel will find NO reason NOT to baptize infants, and every reason TO!
Make sense?
Gotta do Holy Week stuff, Bruce, but I will check in here. I know there's a lot about ABLAZE these days and borrowing from those who - while they may have something to contribute - don't properly understand the Gospel in its purity. You can find LCMS churches that promote Forty Days of Purpose too, and that's just FULL of falsity, no? But I haven't yet watched Fireproof, and I've more to check out from the sites and organizations you reference. After Easter.
Remember Bruce, Baptism and the Lord's Supper are not along side or the Gospel, as optional adjuncts. Anyone who is not clear on these needs to be Evangelized too, even if he's making movies and teaching others about evangelizing. And while we may learn something from such fellow Christians, we ought impart to them the Gospel more fully, lest they lead someone astray.
God's Peace,
Pr. Rick Sawyer
Bruce,
My issue has never been with the movie per se; it has been with the division of Law and Gospel presented in the movie. As I have said before, I think Fireproof does a good job of presenting marital strife and the need for Christ to cure it. Where I have a problem is how Christ is apprehended as that cure.
I can't look to the LCMS as a guideline for what is proper practice. As Luther himself would say, "Churches and councils err," and the LCMS is not free from that. Her districts are struggling with the practice of error. I'll take my guideline from Scripture and the Confessions, thank you. It is from there I gin the best insight to rightly dividing Law and Gospel, and from that proper and salutary practice.
From that, too, comes beneficial speech by which to speak of how God calls, gathers, and enlightens us. Luther gives us this terminology in the explanation of the Third Article in the Small Catechism. It's wonderful imagery combined with Infant Baptism, especially one's own. I did not turn to Christ; I did not go to the cross; but rather, I was brought to the font when I was three months old and Christ came to me.
The way the verbs are driven is as important as the difference between Law and Grace. In the Law we are the actors doing for God; in Grace God is the actor God is the Actor working on our behalf through Christ for our sakes. We receive what He gives passively. Faith receives what God has to give through Christ.
So certain language in an otherwise well-done movie sent me reeling. Sermons of the same sort would also do the same to me. From such as these I would flee, too--especially if they were hawking a book that likewise sucked Christ out of His own parables with a similar confusion of Law and Gospel.
But that's just me.
So now I'll do as you suggest. I'll go prepare for Holy Week, of which there is much to do in these parts. I do appreciate the links. I'll be looking them up in more detail at another time.
I should correct myself, or make myself clearer--whichever it is. There is more than language that concerns me about the movie Fireproof. Marriage is harder work than a fix from a book that separates Christ as much as "The Love Dare" does from His own words and work.
Quite frankly we Lutherans already have a very good marriage live-by and fix-it manual. We don't need to go to outside resources for such things. It's called the Small Catechism. We really ought to be tapping into our own treasures instead of relying so heavily on trying to infuse Lutheran style into foreign substances.
Thanks Emily,
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