.
I wasn’t ‘upbraiding’ you or anyone else for doing otherwise. I know who my friends are and I know what they are capable of doing (because I’m very picky about who and what I allow into my life to start with). Call me weird but sometimes I defend them just because I hate bullying and it’s the right thing to do.
Marildi, here is the problem with “good experience”. Many have good experiences when eating overly sugary foods or other junk food. 
So citing “good experience” as a criteria is very short sighted. One has to account for the bigger picture, long term and other effects of these “good experiences”. It is called looking for the whole truth.
That is what good science does, it collects factual data as objectively and comprehensively as possible. (there is also a lot of bad science, but that is a completely different topic in itself, and then there is fake science which is Scientology) The reason Scientology tech is rejected by the scientific community is while it does make all kinds of promises it is faking and lying at every turn.
Remember how auditing claims to raise intelligence? Well the way they measure it in Scientology, giving the exact same IQ test with a few weeks apart, is a fraud. And every beginner in psychology knows that a test gets learned and giving the a test a second time in shorter order will result in nothing else than higher IQ values. Yet that is how it is done, because it fits the agenda.
There is no regard for truth in Scientology, what matters is what Ron says. And if the observable facts do not agree they get bend. The most despicable thing in Scientology is skeptical thinking. You better get rid of it quick.
So, when you look at the long term effects of Scientology processing the evidence clearly points to personalities narcissistic in tendency and highly delusional. And I may add maybe even over sensitive, when their “spiritual gains” are challenged.
The major events in LRH live are well documented and differ greatly with from his claims. As the CO$ so the ASC has their spin doctors agreed.
We should not forget their thinking patterns are the same.
That is what makes it so important to really get Scientology’s way of thinking out of ones system for good.
But there are numerous factual accounts that are from reliable sources and corroborated and one can look at those without putting some spin to it.
The “barefaced messiah” is a well researched book.
By the way I’ve always wanted to know – how much does Atack get paid to promote his agenda on the Bunker? Tony? Karen? Is it more than Pete Griffiths was going to pay him for his ‘expert’ legal advice? (20K was the going price the last time I asked).
With one caveat – While Barefaced Messiah does contain a number of well-documented items, it also has some rather large (and kind of important) holes in it – particularly related to the mysteriously perfect locksteps I previously mentioned. So, you’re right, in that case it’s not a “spin” on the facts, the spin is on leaving certain facts OUT.
Good to talk to you Gerhard, thanks for your response.
Wow. Apparently he left out an unspoken clause.
See, *then* you can proceed to have a belief. Not a truth, fact, etc. – A BELIEF.
That’s just fricking wonderful logic there.
I’m not familiar with the Blind Men story, but it might relate to it can always be said that anything I learned in scn I could have learned it elsewhere. If I learned it first in scn and it was a foundation or platform for expansion, is something wrong with that?
Frodis 73, I got that Sheldrake’s talk was banned by TED based on the opinion of their board of “scientific advisors” – who I think we can assume speak for the orthodox scientific community.
In any case, the controversy over TED banning the talk wasn’t the actual point of my post; it was the idea that science has its own articles of faith. The 18-minute video of Sheldrake’s TED talk (posted just below) regarding the “The Science Delusion,” speaks to that point.
My point was simply that Mike has been known to pooh-pooh ACTUAL spiritual gains – which he apparently doesn’t even recognize as such due to his own beliefs and mind-set.
I think you’re just blowing smoke (“stating something in a way that conceals the truth”). Where does the “scientific community” state Scientology tech is “faking and lying at every turn”? That would be a very unscientific stance since there has not been a single scientific study made, as far as I know. Do you know of any?
What “evidence” points to all that? I’d say it depends on what one is willing to look at – and on whether or not it is actually “scientology” that’s being looked at.
Sorry, but I don’t wish to continue going round and round with you about all this. You’ll just be stating your views and I’ll be stating mine – views based on our own experience and interpretations. It’s futile to try to take up the whole subject of scientology in one exchange, or even a whole thread – or even a whole blog/forum. Many of them have tried to do it and none could resolve it to everyone’s satisfaction, to put it mildly.
Yeah, I wasn’t very clear. What I meant was that I could perceive the being, at least in many of his performances.
LOL! Great site!
Does Karen talk about her auditing pcs in the OuterSpanks?
Is she a critic of Scientology there but a lover of the tech elsewhere?
How does this work? How can you be a Class 12 auditor who audits pcs using standard tech, following KSW all the way, but also be this big critic of Scientology with members of Anonymous in your group, etc.?
Which is the real Karen?
Oh! Yea, thanks, that makes all the difference.
Holy god…this certainly connects a lot of dots for me. Mark Plummer, aka Warrior is one of the admins?
I bought something from him on ebay a year or so ago, and he sent me a note all happy and excited to know it was me, asked how me and Mike were doing and so on. I was looking for a back issue of the old Freedom magazines put out by the Guardian’s Office so I asked him about it.
He was totally willing to do that, cheerfully replying he’d check into it. His responses by email were fast, and no lags and then all of a sudden – dead silence.
I emailed him twice (I think, I’d have to check my records) checking on the item he was supposed to be looking for. No answer.
I then contacted him through EBAY and received a rather frosty reply telling me not to talk to him through ebay, basically, and to email him. VERY different from just a month or so earlier, how he was behaving to me.
I then emailed him again…long story short. To this day he has not replied to me, won’t talk to me, won’t tell me what happened, why the change, even though I asked him.
NOW I get what happened – SHAME on Karen De la Carriere and her ridiculous man-rug husband.
Can’t have ANYONE being even vaguely friendly with me – is that it?
Then there’s Peter Moon on the member list…oh boy. THAT is really bad, considering what I know about him.
There’s more but I’m so riding on how cool it is to know what happened with Mark Plummer, I think a celebration is in order.
But before I do? This is for Mark Plummer.

I did NOT deserve that kind of treatment.
Did you see the shotgun-to-both-feet one that Michelle Sterling made yesterday? I’ll bet she doesn’t even realize what she’s just proven.
C – sent you a comment at your site asking you a question.
I think it’s called natterbut.com. Or was it natterbox… One of those anyway.
Laughter! – Hey CT – If I had a nickel for every internet faux pas I’ve committed I bet I’d have a dollar! Some people have a problem with “never-ins” but I don’t. There is a wealth of information and insight which comes through on this blog which I call “the collective wisdom”. Keep coming back!
anything but her public posts etc.
promoting Scn tech.
Terril, are you just noticing that fixed idea? There are quite a few people who don’t seem to comprehend the difference between the CoS and the tech. The two are lumped together as “scientology” – no matter how much of a differentiation is made.
One of the screenshots on that site shows Karen attacking the heck out of a member (who had just left her group) for being and I quote “an LRH devotee”.
Note: Terril Park is one of the members of her Sooper Sekrit group. Also in those screenshots. As are Anonlover (under her other screen name of Heidi Mcavoy) Anonymary, David Love, Michelle Sterling, the list goes on.
Alanzo, it’s the one that starts with a post by