 all respects, he was not a living being until after taking his first breath. There are many other references to breath in the Bible.
So anyway, as far as I’m concerned, IF you are going to bring G-d into this, you really need to look at what G-d wants, not what YOU want.
Good story. Good comment.
G-d has not told me specifically what he/she wants with the fetus but apparently wants people to have longer life then 50 years as he/she has helped the advance of life saving medicine in the last 100 years. How bout we take away all modern medicine starting with beta blocker for the oldies?
Lyn, anything I’ve posted hasn’t been meant to pick on you or your beliefs. I admire your fight for life. I just disagree this case is them fighting for the baby. I think its all about saving themselves from lawsuits and they’re experimenting on this poor woman. The mom died from lack of oxygen, the baby suffered the same.  These also were passed on to that poor little one. I worry more about this child’s fate IF its born and lives.
We can disagree without being disagreeable – that is terrific.
dead people cannot be ‘treated’ … that is the significant difference between maintaining a life-like appearance to a decomposing corpse (and it is — read the report that brelee posted) and giving medication/procedures to the living.
no one is suggesting that we cease to treat the infirm or elderly with any type of modern medicine but you.
‘treating’ the dead with anything but embalming fluid, however, is ghoulish. how many dead bodies should be maintained in this fashion? who decides? does a death certificates now mean nothing?
what is happening to jahi mcmath and maria munoz is what was customarily done for a few short hours to allow the family to gather and pay final respects or to allow for organ donation. there is no way that it can be prolonged indefinitely. even with a ventilator, the only thing that is actually occurring is retarding the decomposition process.
i used to think the USSR or others who displayed departed leaders in glass coffins in as much of a life like state as possible to worship and adore was gruesome, but it is nothing compared to our new norm.
Lyn, I don’t know where you’re getting your information but the research that I have been doing (17th century) shows many people living well into their 60s and 70s with a few sticking around into their 80s and even later. In the 17th century, most deaths were of infants and of mothers who died during childbirth. Once the children got to be about five years old, they tended to live fairly long lives, unless they were female and had a difficult pregnancy. Once the industrial revolution came along overall life expectancy of the workers dropped due to unsafe working conditions and child labor. Once regulations were put in place, mainly due to union demands, to improve unsafe working conditions and to eliminate child labor, life expectancy again improved.
While modern medicine has helped some have longer lives, it has also killed many.  A hack surgeon finally got my uncle. Based on my own experience, I think I will live a longer and healthier life if I stay away from the medical establishment.
The average life span 100 years ago was around 45 years. That can be goggled. Sure a few lived to 80 but few and far between as do the 96pluses. More people died of disease in the Civil War for instance then of gunshot. Simple diseases like diarrhea, vomiting, were and without modern medicine. 50 Million died during a flu epidemic in 1918. Today, the average life span is 78 which is huge.  And of course, staying away is your choice. Not mine, cause I can’t go without beta blockers, BP pills and Lopressor to control my chronic A Fib.
My impression is that 100-500 years ago, there was probably much less way that people could form a particular expectation of how long they would live. As Lyn pointed out, there was a much higher likelihood of dying from disease or from complications of pregnancy and childbirth. But as bettykath pointed out, there were also a lot of people surviving into their 60s and 70s, probably a lot fewer than nowadays living into their 80s and beyond.
I didn’t bring up “G” but since it is here now……….
I don’t know what Gods will is or isn’t. But I do believe that he gave us the power of knowledge to learn and do things with that knowledge, we can now save others that before would surely have died.
People have been kept “alive” for various reasons…..life support for the dead so that transplant teams and patients can be arranged, waiting to find a family to get permission, or a family not willing to let someone go. Here we have a case where the state is fighting it because of the life of the unborn child. It’s been done before and I listed a link of a woman who was brain dead at 15 weeks and they let the pregnancy progress as long as it was safe for the unborn baby…….at one point they even gave this woman surgery,,,,,after death, to help ensure the baby’s survival. The baby lived.
While I understand the woman has a no-support wish, no one, not even her husband knows what her wishes would be if she was pregnant at the time–they never discussed that.
But the baby still lives because the mother ‘lives’, it still has a heartbeat and there is nothing to show that the baby has been harmed by the mother’s death/life support, so IMO it should be given a chance at life.
i will not even debate any religious issues, because no one ‘wins’ and we all lose when we do argue — but, i will say this.
we may not know what this woman’s precise wish would be if the worst should happen to her while early or late in her pregnancy, one would almost assuredly have to recognize that texas law here is flawed. even if this woman had a signed DNR or her husband had a medical PoA, the state would intervene and force unwilling parenthood of very questionable ethics and health of the now developing fetus upon this man.
what happens next? if the fetus is horribly damaged but somehow lives, what costs must this man assume? what decisions must he make? to parent or relinquish parental rights? remember, this decision has been forced by the state.
G-d is not about religion, but a spiritual power, greater than ourselves. Fred, love the comment section and exchange of views.
this is not ‘life support’ it is ‘corpse support’ just as with jahi mcmath and i do not support this.
I agree, so I changed it.
Heh. Kinda eye-catching.
Hi Fred, and hi Fauxy, Good to see you both. Compelling arguments from each of you, and so I say thanks. “Corpse support” sums it up–with Marlise’s body being abused as nothing more than a nutritional husk. In the minds of many, the female body is just a means to an end.
always good to hear from you abby!
Modern medicine has liberated us from a short life span of 40 years, illness and resining to our fate. It’s a miracle. At least, in first World Countries most women and fetus can be saved to live a life. I see no ethical dilemma in giving the gift of life to people. I certainly don’t want to go back to the days of preparing a person for death as treatment was so ineffective. I hope that this poor woman who has lost her life can give the gift of organ donations to others.
Too late for organ donation, I think.
He’s right, its too late, far too late. Mom is decomposing and its poisoning what little was left of the baby. There isn’t a chance in hades the baby is normal, none. I’m shocked it hasn’t died already. If you read what the dr.’s have said is going on in the corpse, you’d hate that this experiment is being continued, and that’s what this is.
 This one has already gone through too much at just a few weeks. This story sounds like one of the horror movies I watch, and it saddens me.
We don’t know that about the baby or that Mom is decomposing. Should we stop all stent repair, cardiac drugs, beta blockers that keep some many oldies alive? Most of us would be gone by 50 years without the advances make starting but not ending with vaccines. I support everyone get treated or nobody gets supported in their struggle for life. I am just thrilled at the advances in modern medicine to help the sick. And I remember wards and words of the poor souls kept alive by the Iron Lungs. Now that is a horror movie.
I was wrong, this is for the 13 year old, Jahi, but wouldn’t the same be happening to this mom? This is hard to read, so be forewarned. The dr. explains about the body breakdown in delicate terms. I stand by my statement that the “baby” is being poisoned.
The difference between Jahi’s body state and Mom is that the hospital kept life support with nutrition for Mom. The family attorney for Jahi said that her body had not been fed for a month. “You can’t feed a corpse” as the following article says. It discusses “What is death” and several states of consciousness i.e. coma, vegetative state, minimally conscious, and brain dead. The article alludes that