 but any vendor that gives you multiple referrals they haven't bothered to confirm themselves throws out a huge red flag in my book.
But I've also heard of failures from pre-implementation, maybe the vendor or VAR said it would do something that it can't actually do. Or said that it could handle the customer process as-is and then can't. Technically while that could be fixed by changing the process, why when you're told you didn't have to.
Rule number 1. What ever they promise MUST be in the contract.
Rule number 2. Call references they give and you find. Ask around.
Rule number 3. Minimum hardware/software requirements are just that.
If you decide to go with Epicor or strongly think you are tell me the particular package name and I will put you in touch with the Users Group for that package. That will give you access to the best info. The users.
Thanks for the input everyone. Some real thought provoking points made. I will certainly be contacting any vendor references that we are given. Taking this one step further by having our sales force survey our customers on what ERP they are using and how it works for them (or against them as the case may be). Hopefully we'll get some good references there too. Nothing can make up for having accurate (and complete) requirements prior to the detailed discovery process by the vendor, and then incorporating them into the implementation contract.
You have already gotten some great advice. In regards to considering the source when one vendor slags another, it may come across as ‘unprofessional’ but where there is smoke there is fire. In my experience, the reason why Epicor is getting a tarnished reputation, is because they are a very aggressive sales and marketing company.
Therefore they sometimes target industries and ‘size of company’ they should not. Epicor is amazing as long as you do not mind the infrastructure cost (needs lots of iron), and the IT staffing cost. As long as you do not mind custom writing code, Epicor can do anything. I think it was originally intended only for companies over $100M but with most ERP vendors, once the opportunity base is saturated, they tend to market to smaller and smaller companies.
And if these smaller companies are not prepared to manage such a beast, the dissatisfaction gets posted on these boards. However I have heard their sales demos are very impressive. They spend a lot of time with discovery and custom writing exactly what their client wants to see prior to a demo. Sometimes that cool demo code is half baked.
We are in the process of going from Epicor 8.03 to Epicor 10. We are using a 3rd party consultant and treating it as a re-implementation (caused by our processes, not the software).
The comments about it being old and slow are true of the older versions. Epicor Vantage and Vista were originally developed on a Progress database. Epicor 10 is a complete rewrite built in SQL and.net.
We are just getting our testing database up and running so I haven't seen the results yet but everything I have read from the users that switched to 10 have been positive.
Thanks for the info... a couple of questions... What is your ERP experience... are you an implementer? Wondering why Epicor would require any more hardware and IT staffing resources than other systems. Most ERP systems either run on MSSQL or Oracle, both of which require substantial support resources and hardware. How about the cloud? I've heard it costs more in the long run, but at least you don't have the headaches of managing hardware, patching, backups, etc... I would think that a cloud implementation would also lend it self to less customization.
Thanks Mark. I'd love to hear more about how your implementation is going when you have a minute. As Golub said above, many "front page" references are outright lies. Much better to get a feel for the system from someone who is actually using it. Are you in a manufacturing facility? Our biggest concern here other than consolidated GL is strong EDI functionalty. Do you use this function?
We are in the process of going to Visual from Epicor. We found that Epicor lacked the customer service and user friendly interface that our company needed. Visual seems much more intuitive not only to the user with limited knowledge but to the experienced user also. We have used Epicor for about twelve years and through all that time and upgrades had still found that we are unable to implement our policies effective and efficiently. I hope this helps.
We're also taking a good look at Epicor for our upcoming ERP replacement project and have been very impressed by how knowledgeable their sales staff seems to be compared with the other vendors we've looked at. I've also seen the negative comments on Spiceworks related to Epicor which has me concerned (the other vendors do not shy away from bad mouthing them either), but from what I've seen of their solution it seems to be a very powerful and well put together tool...at least for a discrete manufacturing company like us. The biggest concern out there seems to be related to the performance issues that sound like they were more of a factor with Epicor 9 as opposed to 10. I know that they offer a single-tenant hosted option that might be a good way of mitigating that risk but perhaps I'm being too optimistic.
All that being said, if anyone with direct experience with Epicor 10 (especially in a hosted implementation) would care to share their experience it would be very helpful.
I would be interested in knowing why you switch from Epicor to Visual. You had such a long history with the product, I'm sure there were other issues from a business perspective that didn't satisfy your company goals.
Could you share more detail. I'm sure many of us are interested in learning more about the monumental decision to move away from Epicor.
You've received many responses and I was hoping to provide some additional details. I do need a disclaimer that I represent software solutions, including Epicor and Microsoft Dynamics solutions. I have experience knowing about most ERP solutions in the marketplace.
There were comments about moving to Epicor 10 from other Epicor software and it's important to understand that when Epicor 9 came out, it was a new product and there was no clear migration path from Vantage or other Epicor software. It was a new install in all cases. That version tended to be slow because it has a Progress database as well as SQL. Users reported that it was slow. Epicor 10 is very different from E9 and the progress layer was removed. This has sped things up a bit, but there could still be issues based on volume.
Epicor 10 handles automotive well and a standard demonstration would include showing the project functionality with a PPAP template for the automotive industry. I'm involved also with Dynamics AX and project based manufacturing works well with that solution as well.
A cloud solution that is strong in automotive, and one that I don't represent, is Plex and I recommend checking that out as well.
The previous poster asked about why some would make the "monumental" decision to move away from Epicor. I tried to explain that the current version, E10, is different than previous versions and anyone not on E9 would have a completely new install with different functionality and screens. That's the perfect time to take stock. Epicor as a company has also had some challenges of late and that could weigh in a company's decision as well.
If there's any questions, please let me know and I'll do my best to answer.
Thanks for the input on this. I'm finding many of the same points you mention in dealing with Epicor. Great sales engineers and the ability to show how well their system meets the need for discrete manufacturers. The big difference between 9 and 10 is the change from a Progress database to MSSQL. Not sure if their database structure has changed in performance terms-from what I understand the 9 version is painfully slow unless you throw a ton of hardware at it.. I'm really hoping to hear from some people in the middle of an Epicor 10 implementation (on the cloud, preferably). BTW: we have whittled our list down to three finalists for our ERP: Epicor 10, IFS and IQMS.
Thanks for the input on this topic. You mention Epicor having some company challenges as of late, what would those be? We've looked at eight different ERP demos that met just about all high level requirements we have. Plex was considered early on, but their financial reporting was given the axe by our CFO. Not sure what it looks like now, but a version we saw early last year wasn't very impressive from a usability standpoint. Looks like it would do the job, but too many other systems out there that would do it better. I'd be interested in knowing what issues people are facing with a fresh install and implementation of Epicor 10 (not an upgrade from 9). Are implementation costs in line with other ERP systems in their tier? I've also heard that they are one of the most expensive to implement, but that might also have been reference to version 9.
Thanks Mark. Great info. Did you end up completely re-implementing with a fresh install, or were you able to upgrade from your previous somehow? ﻿Wondering if you're any further in the process and if your perception or the system has changed any?
Glad to hear we're not the only ones going through the process of trying to pick out the best ERP vendor for a (mostly) discrete manufacturing operation. It sounds like we are looking at a lot of the same vendors...our "long" list included Epicor 10, Infor Syteline, IFS, Syspro, PLEX and Sage X3. We took a quick look at IQMS but