I just checked the CRN PostgreSQL article at:

   http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670

I see no changes to the article, even though Vince our webmaster, Geoff
Davidson of PostgreSQL, Inc, and Dave Mele of Great Bridge have
requested it be fixed.  Not sure what we can do now.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:22:48 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
CRN article not updated
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:22:48PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> I just checked the CRN PostgreSQL article at:
> 
>    http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670
> 
> I see no changes to the article, even though Vince our webmaster, Geoff
> Davidson of PostgreSQL, Inc, and Dave Mele of Great Bridge have
> requested it be fixed.  

If _you_ had been deluged with that kind of vitriol, what kind of favors 
would you feel like doing?

> Not sure what we can do now.

It's too late.  "We" screwed it up.  (Thanks again, guys.)
The responses have done far more lasting damage than any article 
could ever have done.  The horse is dead.  

The best we can do is to plan for the future.  

1. What happens the next time a slightly inaccurate article is published? 
2. What happens when an openly hostile article is published?

Will our posse ride off again with guns blazing, making more enemies?  
Will they make us all look to potential users like a bunch of hotheaded, 
childish nobodies?

Or will we have somebody appointed, already, to write a measured,
rational, mature clarification?  Will we have articles already written,
and handed to more responsible reporters, so that an isolated badly-done 
article can do little damage?

We're not even on Oracle's radar yet.  When PG begins to threaten their 
income, their marketing department will go on the offensive.  Oracle 
marketing is very, very skillful, and very, very nasty.  If they find 
that by seeding the press with reasonable-sounding criticisms of PG, 
they can prod the PG community into making itself look like idiots, 
they will go to town on it.

Nathan Myers
ncm@zembu.com


Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:49:43 -0700
ncm@zembu.com (Nathan Myers)
Re: CRN article not updated
> If _you_ had been deluged with that kind of vitriol, what kind of favors
> would you feel like doing?

    Well, one person's opinion on the article that was perhaps expressed a
little harshly shouldn't cause the company to cover their ears and hum when
their article is in need of multiple corrections (as pointed out by many people,
some involved professionally with PostgreSQL and some not).. I did go through
and read some other articles written by this author -- they're all pretty bad
and filled with half-researched statements.

    The article also made it seems as if Great Bridge owned and developed
PostgreSQL, which is of course totally false. That stepped on some fingers I'm
*sure*.

> It's too late.  "We" screwed it up.  (Thanks again, guys.)
> The responses have done far more lasting damage than any article
> could ever have done.  The horse is dead.

    There isn't really a "we", is there? The PostgreSQL community isn't any kind
of entity that can be governed.. Great Bridge and PostgreSQL INC are such
entites and I'm sure they both handled the situation differently than the people
that sent in their personal opinions..

> The best we can do is to plan for the future.
>
> 1. What happens the next time a slightly inaccurate article is published?

    The author and publisher will probably get flamed by angry PostgreSQL users,
demanding the article be corrected :-)

    Regardless of it being right or good for the (commercial) success of
PostgreSQL, people will get pissed and express some pretty harsh opinions when
something they know and love is being insulted or otherwise attacked.

> 2. What happens when an openly hostile article is published?

    See above, take result of above and cube the intensity factor. :-)

> Will our posse ride off again with guns blazing, making more enemies?
> Will they make us all look to potential users like a bunch of hotheaded,
> childish nobodies?

    Who is "we"? Even if we ("we" being you and I) come up with something we
think is best we can't force others to do what ever that may be. Result? Someone
is always going to get angry and let the person(s) attacking know what's on
their mind.

> Or will we have somebody appointed, already, to write a measured,
> rational, mature clarification?  Will we have articles already written,
> and handed to more responsible reporters, so that an isolated badly-done
> article can do little damage?

    Great Bridge and their marketing people will do this...... Maybe? After all,
the PostgreSQL users/developers don't have to market their product, they're not
selling anything! (I do know some of them now work for Great Bridge, though)

> We're not even on Oracle's radar yet.  When PG begins to threaten their
> income, their marketing department will go on the offensive.  Oracle
> marketing is very, very skillful, and very, very nasty.  If they find
> that by seeding the press with reasonable-sounding criticisms of PG,
> they can prod the PG community into making itself look like idiots,
> they will go to town on it.

    This is something for companies, like Great Bridge, to deal with and just
isn't an issue for the PostgreSQL development/user community as we're not
marketing anything :-)

    After saying all that, let me say this.. I use PostgreSQL and have been
using it for several years now, I think it's the best RDBMS out there for me and
I have recommend (and used) it for every database-driven project I've done to
date. I haven't had any trouble convincing clients to use PostgreSQL over Oracle
(and everyone that wants some software written always wants to use Oracle!). I
present the facts of PostgreSQL and in every one of the cases I've been involved
in, PostgreSQL is simply the best choice, everyone ends up happy..

    To all involved in the development of PostgreSQL : THANKS!

-Mitch
Life is good. Be happy.




Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:32:07 -0400
"Mitch Vincent" <mitch@venux.net>
Re: CRN article not updated