Hello,

  As Command Prompt is about to release it's Replication product we are 
open sourcing our
pgManage. pgManage is similar to pgAdmin but as it is java based it is 
truly cross platform
and should easily support most if not all of the community supported 
platforms.

  I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are 
people's thoughts on
this?

  Yes it has a Java requirement but hey.... that is a lot easier than a 
GTK requirement to fullfill.
My thought is that it could be included as pgAccess used to be.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

-- 
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org 



Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:14:33 -0800
"Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>
Open Sourcing pgManage
Joshua D. Drake writes:

>   I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are
> people's thoughts on
> this?

I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be
included with PostgreSQL.  We will provide a server and let a happy bunch
of client applications and libraries develop around it.  That has worked
out pretty well lately, I think.

-- 
Peter Eisentraut   peter_e@gmx.net
Master-of-the-Makefiles  http://www.postgresql.org


Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:44:02 +0100 (CET)
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage
Hello,

  If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there 
but doesn't that mean that
psql would be separate as well?

J

Peter Eisentraut wrote:

>Joshua D. Drake writes:
>
>  
>
>>  I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are
>>people's thoughts on
>>this?
>>    
>>
>
>I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be
>included with PostgreSQL.  We will provide a server and let a happy bunch
>of client applications and libraries develop around it.  That has worked
>out pretty well lately, I think.
>
>  
>


-- 
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org 



Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:52:11 -0800
"Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage
On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 14:14, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>   As Command Prompt is about to release it's Replication product we are 
> open sourcing our
> pgManage. pgManage is similar to pgAdmin but as it is java based it is 
> truly cross platform
> and should easily support most if not all of the community supported 
> platforms.

>   I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are 
> people's thoughts on
> this?

Any client distributed with PostgreSQL should work on all of the
platforms PostgreSQL does. Java can make this a bit of a stickler since
Sun does not support it outside the mainstream systems.
Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:53:10 -0500
Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage


On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> Hello,
>
>   If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there
> but doesn't that mean that
> psql would be separate as well?

"no new client applications"


Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:58:35 -0400 (AST)
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

>On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>  If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there
>>but doesn't that mean that
>>psql would be separate as well?
>>    
>>
>
>"no new client applications"
>
>
>  
>

BTW, Joshua, thanks for releasing this - all my client side work is 
currently Java (a Tomcat webapp in fact) so I'm very interested to see 
the shape of your app, as I'm sure others are.

cheers

andrew


Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:15:10 -0500
Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage


On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Andrew Dunstan wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Hello,
> >>
> >>  If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there
> >>but doesn't that mean that
> >>psql would be separate as well?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >"no new client applications"
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> BTW, Joshua, thanks for releasing this - all my client side work is
> currently Java (a Tomcat webapp in fact) so I'm very interested to see
> the shape of your app, as I'm sure others are.

D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a
JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat?  One of the limitations of pgAdmin,
as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if
you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that
would be *really* cool ...

Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:59:57 -0400 (AST)
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
> Joshua D. Drake writes:
>> I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are
>> people's thoughts on
>> this?

> I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be
> included with PostgreSQL.

"Donation" doesn't equal "include in the server distribution".  I think it
would be great to put it up on gborg.

			regards, tom lane

Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:01:33 -0500
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage 
Joshua,

I'd love to see it donated to the community as well!

Dave
On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 16:01, Tom Lane wrote:
> Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
> > Joshua D. Drake writes:
> >> I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are
> >> people's thoughts on
> >> this?
> 
> > I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be
> > included with PostgreSQL.
> 
> "Donation" doesn't equal "include in the server distribution".  I think it
> would be great to put it up on gborg.
> 
> 			regards, tom lane
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
> 
> 


04 Nov 2003 16:15:19 -0500
Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.com>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage
If it doesn't do jsp now, it would be a good starting point for a web
version, as java lends it self well to multiple views.

Dave
On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 15:59, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Andrew Dunstan wrote:
> 
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Hello,
> > >>
> > >>  If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there
> > >>but doesn't that mean that
> > >>psql would be separate as well?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >"no new client applications"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > BTW, Joshua, thanks for releasing this - all my client side work is
> > currently Java (a Tomcat webapp in fact) so I'm very interested to see
> > the shape of your app, as I'm sure others are.
> 
> D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a
> JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat?  One of the limitations of pgAdmin,
> as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if
> you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that
> would be *really* cool ...
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>       subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
>       message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
> 
> 


04 Nov 2003 16:49:19 -0500
Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.com>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage

>D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a
>JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat?  One of the limitations of pgAdmin,
>as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if
>you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that
>would be *really* cool ...
>
>  
>
Hello,

  Well right now you can't but there is no reason why it couldn't as an 
applet with some work.

J




>---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>      subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
>      message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
>  
>


-- 
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org 



Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:02:41 -0800
"Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

>JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat?  One of the limitations of pgAdmin,
>as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if
>you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that
>would be *really* cool ...
>  
>
> D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a


pgAdmin is designed for a good interactive experience, which isn't 
achievable using web technologies. SSL connection is supported, so on 
not-too-slow lines remote usage should be possible without security 
issues, or over a VPN (I'm working like this).
For web access, phpPGadmin should be usable; haven't tried so far.



Regards,
Andreas


Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:06:21 +0100
Andreas Pflug <pgadmin@pse-consulting.de>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage


Andreas Pflug wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
>> JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat?  One of the limitations of 
>> pgAdmin,
>> as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if
>> you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, 
>> that
>> would be *really* cool ...
>>  
>>
>> D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a
>
>
>
> pgAdmin is designed for a good interactive experience, which isn't 
> achievable using web technologies. SSL connection is supported, so on 
> not-too-slow lines remote usage should be possible without security 
> issues, or over a VPN (I'm working like this).
> For web access, phpPGadmin should be usable; haven't tried so far.
>

I don't think any of this contradicts what Marc said.

And, as Joshua pointed out it could with some work be made to run as an 
applet, which would be very cool for, say, an ISP to provide (nothing at 
all required for the user to install).

Don't get me wrong - pgadmin is cool - I especially recommend it to my 
Windows oriented clients and colleagues who hate using command lines.

I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java admin 
GUI would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based admin client 
deployable as a web archive.

(BTW, have a look at the phpPgAdmin screen shots at 
http://phppgadmin.sourceforge.net/?page=screenshots - they are quite 
nice, even though I am not a PHP fan).

cheers

andrew


Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:52:33 -0500
Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage

Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes:

> I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java admin GUI
> would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based admin client deployable
> as a web archive.

If someone's looking for an interesting GUI project, Applix had a database
frontend that was geared more for data rather than DDL. It presented a
spreadsheet-like interface for arbitrary sql queries and handled dealing with
arbitrary sized result sets and allowing editing of fields using primary keys
etc.

It was actually part of their open source release. I looked at trying to pull
it out of their build system and package it up independently a while back. It
was a bit of a pain. But I did manage to get it compiled and up and running
against Oracle at the time. The main pain was getting the ODBC drivers set up.

Getting that working smoothly with postgres and actively developed could make
for a really nice DML tool.

-- 
greg


04 Nov 2003 20:32:59 -0500
Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage

> D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a
> JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat?  One of the limitations of pgAdmin,
> as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely 

Then use phpPgAdmin...

Chris



Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:42:03 +0800
Christopher Kings-Lynne <chriskl@familyhealth.com.au>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage
Greg Stark wrote:

>Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes:
>
>  
>
>>I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java admin GUI
>>would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based admin client deployable
>>as a web archive.
>>    
>>
>
>If someone's looking for an interesting GUI project, Applix had a database
>frontend that was geared more for data rather than DDL. It presented a
>spreadsheet-like interface for arbitrary sql queries and handled dealing with
>arbitrary sized result sets and allowing editing of fields using primary keys
>etc.
>  
>

pgAdmin3 has not only the DDL browsing tool, but also a data 
manipulation tool, doing pretty much what you describe (spreadsheet 
like, in-place editing, result set size only limited by the backend). 
It's functionality is quite basic at the moment, enhancements in 
progress. There are plans for a supplementing data manipulation 
application suite that allows for import/transformation/... stuff. And 
we plan to include a scripting engine into pgAdmin3 (probably Python), 
for easy add-on programming.

Regards,
Andreas



Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:30:14 +0100
Andreas Pflug <pgadmin@pse-consulting.de>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage
gsstark@mit.edu (Greg Stark) writes:
> Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes:
>
>> I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java
>> admin GUI would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based
>> admin client deployable as a web archive.
>
> If someone's looking for an interesting GUI project, Applix had a
> database frontend that was geared more for data rather than DDL. It
> presented a spreadsheet-like interface for arbitrary sql queries and
> handled dealing with arbitrary sized result sets and allowing
> editing of fields using primary keys etc.
>
> It was actually part of their open source release. I looked at
> trying to pull it out of their build system and package it up
> independently a while back. It was a bit of a pain. But I did manage
> to get it compiled and up and running against Oracle at the
> time. The main pain was getting the ODBC drivers set up.
>
> Getting that working smoothly with postgres and actively developed
> could make for a really nice DML tool.

Was that a 'native' part of SHELF?  Or more related to their "TM1"
product?

FYI, while Applix and VistaSource have "orphaned" it, source code for
SHELF is still available at SourceForge.

ftp://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/sourceforge/shelf/

It was written for GTK 1.2; we're up to much newer stuff, and it's not
self-evident that it will play with newer versions.  (Old versions are
presumably still available and quasi-usable...)
-- 
output = reverse("moc.enworbbc" "@" "enworbbc")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/sap.html
"For be a man's intellectual superiority what it will, it can never
assume the practical, available supremacy over other men, without the
aid of some sort of external arts and entrenchments, always, in
themselves, more or less paltry and base.  This it is, that forever
keeps God's true princes of the Empire from the world's hustings; and
leaves the highest honors that this air can give, to those men who
become famous more through their infinite inferiority to the choice
hidden handful of the Divine Inert, than through their undoubted
superiority over the dead level of the mass." --Moby Dick, Ch 33

Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:20:44 -0500
Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage

Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org> writes:

> Was that a 'native' part of SHELF?  Or more related to their "TM1"
> product?

The full source was included in SHELF (if that was the source release I'm
thinking of.) I think it was called axdata.

> FYI, while Applix and VistaSource have "orphaned" it, source code for
> SHELF is still available at SourceForge.
> 
> ftp://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/sourceforge/shelf/

-- 
greg


05 Nov 2003 12:38:27 -0500
Greg Stark <gsstark@mit.edu>
Re: Open Sourcing pgManage