Hello again,  postgres documenters and now developers too,

As I have received some positive feedback (and only one 'No way!'), I was inspired to work
some more on the crocodile idea. Thanks to all supporters.

BTW, if you answer to the list please CC to hannu@trust.ee, as I only get the digests.

You can see some new images at

http://www.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page2.html

the older ones are at

http://www.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page.html

-----------------------

Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> wrote:

> I have been thinking about a logo.  Basically, all SQL databases are
> based on tables, like spreadsheets.
>
> Perhaps we could have a black-and-white stone tablet saying SQL laying
> on the ground, perhaps broken or old looking, and a color PostgreSQL
> tablet leaning up and looking like an SQL table containing data, except
> the data forms the words PostgreSQL.  We could do other exciting things
> in the table fields like have things jumping out of them, because we
> support functions/inheritance/user types.

I added some ideas from this post to
http://www.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page2.html  ;)

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 10:37:59 -0800
> From: Michael Yount <csf@moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [DOCS] Hannu K.'s logos and SQL-92 compliance
>
> Hannu:  ROTF...Hilarious.  Two thumbs and two big toes up from me.

Thanks!

> ------------------------------
>

"D. Dante Lorenso" <dlorenso@afai.com>

> Subject: Re: [DOCS] Hannu K.'s logos
>
> >Hannu:  ROTF...Hilarious.  Two thumbs and two big toes up from me.
>
> Love the logos!  Cute, characteristic, classy, creative, yet simple.
> Do we have to have an elephant?  I like the crocodile idea ;)
>
> I might change the font a bit, but the artistic influences are
> a nice theme variation from the whole 3D pop out and grab you stuff.
> Plus, the croc/gator is managable and can be worked into many other
> logos, banners, and images.
>
> What about it?  I say Do the Croc/Gator "PostgreSQL" and make it
> the official logo!

These were some ideas behind my proposing the crocodile. It has some properties (big,
agile, fast, ...) that can be used in verbal image. It is also recognizable when drawn very
small, like in logos and buttons. And it seems to be not taken yet in the software world.
(The two closest that I know of are Chameleon and Mozilla ;).

And of course it can be rendered in 3D and still be recognizable.

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:45:22 -0500 (EST)
> From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
> Subject: Re: [DOCS] Hannu K.'s logos
>
>
>         I don't :(  Isn't the Croc the logo on a polo shirt or something
> like that? :(  And the images don't pop out at you like the current logo
> does...kinda dry :(

I assume you mean the 3D text PostgreSQL rendered with silver coating (in font called Orbit
or something?) and not the dotted cat on the "Powered by PostgreSQL" button ?

It is nice artwork and I quite like it. But somehow I can't think of it as a 'logo', its
more like a book cover or web-page header. Requirements for logo are much wider. A good
logo is one that you can immediately recognize also at small sizes and in monochrome.

>         I think that's going to be the problem with just about any animal
> logo though, isn't it? :(

As I don't have 3D programs installed here right now, so I could not make any nice pop-out
images of crocodile but I think that it is not beyond possible ;)

My idea was first to introduce the idea of a crocodile for PostgreSQL logo. I did
contemplate other creatures as well, but chose the crocodile for several reasons:

* PostgresSQL is a big database, it is fast for bigger and more complicated jobs., so the
mascot should also be a big animal.

* PostgreSQL  predecessors used the Turtle logo, Crocodile and turtle don't seem too
distant.

* PostgreSQL is one the oldest relational databases now freely available, Crocodiles are
ancient

* Crocodiles stuff their pray into some underwater shelves to mature - PostgreSQL is a
database (ok, this is a little far-fetched ;)

* Crocodile image is easily recognizable. One can use it in many ways (for example for
different PostgreSQL tools)

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:10:15 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
> Subject: Re: [DOCS] Hannu K.'s logos
>
> On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> > And the images don't pop out at you like the current logo does...kinda
> > dry :(
>
> Actually the current logo is a bit on the busy side.
>
> Remember the old FreeBSD.org banner?  Contrast that with the new one...
>
> Other than the weird perspective of the croc's legs, those logos are
> clean, and simple (and lets you have tastefull buttons and thumbnails that
> are of a consistent style.)

If the people like the crocodile idea the actual shape can be worked out to satisfy any
taste (not really,  ;-p )

> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:52:55 -0500 (EST)
> From: Tripp Lilley <tlilley@perspex.com>
> Subject: Re: [DOCS] Hannu K.'s logos
>
> On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> >       I don't :(  Isn't the Croc the logo on a polo shirt or something
> > like that? :(  And the images don't pop out at you like the current logo
> > does...kinda dry :(
> >
> >       I think that's going to be the problem with just about any animal
> > logo though, isn't it? :(
>
> The essential problem with all of the "vivid 3-d explosion" logos is that
> they don' translate well to other media. A good logo has enough innate
> simplicity that it can be rendered faithfully in one color, in low-res
> media (like embroidery), etc.
>
> A good logo is also a springboard for more complex 'derivative' work. By
> associating PGSQL with the notion of a crocodile, and by promoting the
> simple, easy to recognize, easily mentally 'imprinted' image as its
> signature, we create "brand recognition". People grasp the clean lines in
> the croc logo, and they grasp the "shape" of a crocodile.
>
> Once that work is 'done', and people have the croc notion firmly
> implanted, then we get to mess with it and do eye-popping 3D craziness, if
> that moves us. We can do cool rendered chrome "crocobots" and what-not.
> Starting from 3D, on the other hand, challenges us to divine from the
> rendered, textured complexity of the pictures, the fundamental, long-lived
> message.
>
> In this case, I think the croc work is a masterpiece. It has lots of room
> to grow, lots of possbilities for derivative work. It makes a strong, bold
> statement about the code -- "the dinosaur that survived" may or may not be
> a good marketing slogan, but regardless of those words, I think of a
> crocodile as a deceptively fast, deceptively strong creature.
>
> My vote is for the croc.
>
> - - t.
>
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Tripp Lilley, Perspex Imageworks, Inc. (tripp.lilley@perspex.com)
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>       "Give me a fast computer, for I intend to go in harm's way"
>                       - updating John Paul Jones
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:15:17 -0500
> From: "D. Dante Lorenso" <dlorenso@afai.com>
> Subject: New Crocodile Logo ... was [Re: [DOCS] Hannu K.'s logos]
>
> >
> >My vote is for the croc.
>
> YES!! YES!!
>
> I like where we are going with this...It seems MOST of us are in
> agreement.
>
> Now, if only H.H.(Marc) *ahem* could see clear to agree...
> *ho hum ... looks at sky*
>
> BTW how much support is needed to make something official?  Who gives
> stamp of approval?  Can we override he who vetos?
>
> Go Crocodile!!  Hooray! *rallies crowd*
>
> Dante
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 08:58:50 +0800 (HKT)
> From: "neil d. quiogue" <neil@iphil.net>
> Subject: Re: [DOCS] Hannu K.'s logos
>
> On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Tripp Lilley wrote:
>
> > A good logo is also a springboard for more complex 'derivative' work. By
> > associating PGSQL with the notion of a crocodile, and by promoting the
> > simple, easy to recognize, easily mentally 'imprinted' image as its
> > signature, we create "brand recognition". People grasp the clean lines in
> > the croc logo, and they grasp the "shape" of a crocodile.
> [snip]
>
> i couldn't have said it better.  the lines are neatly drawn, distinctive
> even at low resolutions (and even thumbnail).  though it reminds me a bit
> about lacoste... ;)
>
> fyi, when it has been agreed upon and all things settled, i'll update the
> site.
>
> [---]
> Neil D. Quiogue <neil@iphil.net>
> IPhil Communications Network, Inc.
> Other: neil@postgresql.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 19:17:29 -0600 (CST)
> From: "Ing. Roberto Andrade" <randrade@campus.iztacala.unam.mx>
> Subject: Re: [DOCS] Hannu K.'s logos
>
> Hi:
>
> > i couldn't have said it better.  the lines are neatly drawn, distinctive
> > even at low resolutions (and even thumbnail).  though it reminds me a bit
> > about lacoste... ;)
>
> So what? When I entered Linux the camel logo reminded me a cigarette
> brand, and now when I see the cigarette box I ALWAYS jumps to Perl!

To dispel fears about becoming a clone of lacoste ;),  I made some crocodile imagery that
has only parts of the crocodile.

As to what to do next, I think I'll post this to hackers list as well, so that maybe we can
get some more opinions from the core developers.

---------------
Waiting for reactions,
Hannu Krosing





Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:05:27 +0200
Hannu Krosing <hannu@trust.ee>
Re: pgsql-docs-digest V1 #312
> Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> wrote:
> 
> > I have been thinking about a logo.  Basically, all SQL databases are
> > based on tables, like spreadsheets.
> >
> > Perhaps we could have a black-and-white stone tablet saying SQL laying
> > on the ground, perhaps broken or old looking, and a color PostgreSQL
> > tablet leaning up and looking like an SQL table containing data, except
> > the data forms the words PostgreSQL.  We could do other exciting things
> > in the table fields like have things jumping out of them, because we
> > support functions/inheritance/user types.
> 
> I added some ideas from this post to
> http://www.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page2.html  ;)

I think I like the crocodile animal idea.  The water as an SQL table
idea is interesting.  Another idea would be the crocodile eating an SQL
table.

As far as the above post, if we changed the old brick wall so it looks
like an SQL table, we can change PostgreSQL to emphasize POSTgreSQL, so
we can show we are post/beyond SQL.  This may be a nice distinction to
make in the web site banner image.


-- 
Bruce Momjian                          |  830 Blythe Avenue
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us              |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  (610) 353-9879(w)
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  (610) 853-3000(h)

Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:48:31 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [DOCS] Re: pgsql-docs-digest V1 #312
At 2:05 pm -0500 3/8/98, Hannu Krosing wrote:
>Hello again,  postgres documenters and now developers too,
>
>As I have received some positive feedback (and only one 'No way!'), I was
>inspired to work

This one really grabs me.

http://www.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/pgundert.gif

It's clean, simple, different and catchy. The conceptual link between the
croc logo and the PostgreSQL underneath put a smile on my face. Great work.

Doug


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Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:52:48 -0500
"J. Douglas Dunlop" <dunlop@ionline.net>
Re: [DOCS] Re: pgsql-docs-digest V1 #312