
> It is too late to think about pushing back another month.  We had this
> discussion already.  June 1 is it.

I thought the outcome of that discussion was June 15 ?

Can we try to do the 2PC patch now instead of waiting for subtransactions ?

Andreas

Mon, 17 May 2004 16:55:50 +0200
"Zeugswetter Andreas SB SD" <ZeugswetterA@spardat.at>
Re: Call for 7.5 feature completion
On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 04:55:50PM +0200, Zeugswetter Andreas SB SD wrote:
> 
> > It is too late to think about pushing back another month.  We had this
> > discussion already.  June 1 is it.
> 
> I thought the outcome of that discussion was June 15 ?

I think there was no outcome.  There was no official pronouncement, there
was no vote, there was no consensus.  People seemed to stick with whatever
was closer.

> Can we try to do the 2PC patch now instead of waiting for subtransactions ?

The last post from Heikki I read said that he discovered some serious
problems with his implementation and he wanted do rethink about them.  I
don't think he will be able to make it, mainly because if my patch gets
accepted it will be too close to feature freeze (if it is June 1st).

Personally I've been focused on getting subtransactions done and now I think
I'm very close to an acceptable patch, but what has slowed me down the last
time has been lack of feedback from core developers.  It was feedback I
needed to figure out the best ways to do things (I made several big mistakes
that I'm only now correcting thanks to invaluable comments from Tom Lane),
and without it the last steps were getting very difficult to me.
Fortunately now I've got it.

I have some confidence in that I will be able to deliver it maybe the last
week of May.  I can only hope, however, that it will not be rejected because
it's presented too close to feature freeze.  That would be a shame, because
I offered incremental patches a lot of time ago and they weren't even looked
at  (Hey, I'm not blaming anyone).

-- 
Alvaro Herrera (<alvherre[@]dcc.uchile.cl>)
FOO MANE PADME HUM

Mon, 17 May 2004 19:18:54 -0400
Alvaro Herrera Munoz <alvherre@dcc.uchile.cl>
Re: Call for 7.5 feature completion
Alvaro Herrera Munoz wrote:
> Personally I've been focused on getting subtransactions done and now I think
> I'm very close to an acceptable patch, but what has slowed me down the last
> time has been lack of feedback from core developers.  It was feedback I
> needed to figure out the best ways to do things (I made several big mistakes
> that I'm only now correcting thanks to invaluable comments from Tom Lane),
> and without it the last steps were getting very difficult to me.
> Fortunately now I've got it.
> 
> I have some confidence in that I will be able to deliver it maybe the last
> week of May.  I can only hope, however, that it will not be rejected because
> it's presented too close to feature freeze.  That would be a shame, because
> I offered incremental patches a lot of time ago and they weren't even looked
> at  (Hey, I'm not blaming anyone).

One huge problem is that many features are asking for our attention this
close to freeze date.  I spend some time on relative-path installs, and
now there are lots of patches that need to be reviewed and placed into
the queue, and we haven't been giving you enough feedback.

And I am thinking of helping with PITR because there isn't much work to
do except plugging into the backend and GUC.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

Mon, 17 May 2004 23:35:21 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: Call for 7.5 feature completion
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Alvaro Herrera Munoz wrote:

> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 04:55:50PM +0200, Zeugswetter Andreas SB SD wrote:
> > Can we try to do the 2PC patch now instead of waiting for subtransactions ?
>
> The last post from Heikki I read said that he discovered some serious
> problems with his implementation and he wanted do rethink about them.  I
> don't think he will be able to make it, mainly because if my patch gets
> accepted it will be too close to feature freeze (if it is June 1st).

That's still the status with my 2PC patch. It works, as long as you don't
try to touch system catalogs, use notifications, set session GUC
variables or do any other fancy stuff. In those cases you get a "not
implemented" error when you try to prepare the transaction, and the
it aborts.

I think I figured out the MVCC snapshot issues, but I haven't really
tested it so there could be some nasty race conditions I missed.

I won't make it to June 1., I'll be on vacation on May 20-27, and I'm
quite busy at work at the moment.

I'd like to get the patch committed as soon as the 7.6 release cycle
begins, with whatever limitations it has at that time.

- Heikki


Tue, 18 May 2004 13:09:54 +0300
Heikki Linnakangas <hlinnaka@iki.fi>
Re: Call for 7.5 feature completion
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Alvaro Herrera Munoz wrote:

> I have some confidence in that I will be able to deliver it maybe the last
> week of May.  I can only hope, however, that it will not be rejected because
> it's presented too close to feature freeze.

There is no such thing as "too close to feature freeze", nor has there
ever been in the past ...  other then missing it altogether.  Unless there
are some serious flaws in the implementation, submitting it on May 31st
would get it in ...it isn't expecting to be rock solid, bug free, that is
what the beta period is to work out ...

What is expected, though, is that you won't disappear after its committed,
so that you can fix any bugs reported in a timely manner ...

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

Wed, 19 May 2004 00:34:39 -0300 (ADT)
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>
Re: Call for 7.5 feature completion
On Tue, 18 May 2004, Heikki Linnakangas wrote:

> I'd like to get the patch committed as soon as the 7.6 release cycle
> begins, with whatever limitations it has at that time.

The nice thing of this is that then you have a development cycle for
others to help ... your patch lays down the "this is the direction, now
add to it" ...

I'd love to see 7.6 start off with a bunch of very large patches that can
be then fleshed out over the course of the development cycle ... instead
of a bunch of patches at the end of teh development cycle cause everyone
is trying to squeeze things in ...


----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

Wed, 19 May 2004 00:37:20 -0300 (ADT)
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>
Re: Call for 7.5 feature completion
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Mon, 17 May 2004, Alvaro Herrera Munoz wrote:
> 
> > I have some confidence in that I will be able to deliver it maybe the last
> > week of May.  I can only hope, however, that it will not be rejected because
> > it's presented too close to feature freeze.
> 
> There is no such thing as "too close to feature freeze", nor has there
> ever been in the past ...  other then missing it altogether.  Unless there
> are some serious flaws in the implementation, submitting it on May 31st
> would get it in ...it isn't expecting to be rock solid, bug free, that is
> what the beta period is to work out ...
> 
> What is expected, though, is that you won't disappear after its committed,
> so that you can fix any bugs reported in a timely manner ...

Not completely true.  If a patch needs major rework or the implemention
isn't acceptable, it might be rejected and have to wait --- it has
happened before, and PITR might not make it because the April 1 patch
wasn't an acceptable implementation.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

Wed, 19 May 2004 00:31:14 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: Call for 7.5 feature completion
On Wed, 19 May 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > There is no such thing as "too close to feature freeze", nor has there
> > ever been in the past ...  other then missing it altogether.  Unless there
> > are some serious flaws in the implementation, submitting it on May 31st
> > would get it in ...it isn't expecting to be rock solid, bug free, that is
> > what the beta period is to work out ...
> >
> > What is expected, though, is that you won't disappear after its committed,
> > so that you can fix any bugs reported in a timely manner ...
>
> Not completely true.  If a patch needs major rework or the implemention
> isn't acceptable, it might be rejected and have to wait --- it has
> happened before, and PITR might not make it because the April 1 patch
> wasn't an acceptable implementation.

Which is why I stateed "unless there are some serious flaws in ... " :)

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

Wed, 19 May 2004 11:19:41 -0300 (ADT)
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org>
Re: Call for 7.5 feature completion