http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670

Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
journalistic license.
--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:59:25 -0400
Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org>
Hey guys, check this out.
On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Lamar Owen wrote:

> http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670
> 
> Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
> FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
> journalistic license.

Oh, and 7.1's due to ship at the end of June... *cough* Somebody should
forward Marc's announcement from last night to them.


-- 
Dominic J. Eidson
                                        "Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-menu!" - Gimli
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.the-infinite.org/              http://www.the-infinite.org/~dominic/


Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:17:23 -0500 (CDT)
"Dominic J. Eidson" <sauron@the-infinite.org>
Re: Hey guys, check this out.

there is little, to nothing, factual about that whole article ...

"Great Bridge essentially gives away its open-source database application
at little cost..."

	- thannk god I can get it completely for free, eh?

"Great Bridge executives say their licensing costs for the software..."

	- someone want to tell me when they started charging licensing
	  costs?

"...nearly 25 years ago"

	- I thought it was around '85?  That's only 15 years ...

"Version 7.1, due to ship at the end of June..."

	- should I pull what we've released? *raised eyebrow*

"...is the marketing and channel arm for PostgreSQL"

	- they are?

I wonder, is Great Bridge going to step up and correct the *several*
mis-conceptions that have been touted in their name?  There were alot of
quotes from GB in there, so I wonder ... ?

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Lamar Owen wrote:

> http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670
>
> Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
> FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
> journalistic license.
> --
> Lamar Owen
> WGCR Internet Radio
> 1 Peter 4:11
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
>

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org


Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:19:14 -0300 (ADT)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: Hey guys, check this out.

I rarely sign a note as the webmaster, I like to keep a low profile.
I just sent the witch a note and made it a point to let her know who
I am - and BCCd Marc.  He can cross post it if he wishes.  I also sent
it to the editor of that rag.

Vince.



On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

>
> there is little, to nothing, factual about that whole article ...
>
> "Great Bridge essentially gives away its open-source database application
> at little cost..."
>
> 	- thannk god I can get it completely for free, eh?
>
> "Great Bridge executives say their licensing costs for the software..."
>
> 	- someone want to tell me when they started charging licensing
> 	  costs?
>
> "...nearly 25 years ago"
>
> 	- I thought it was around '85?  That's only 15 years ...
>
> "Version 7.1, due to ship at the end of June..."
>
> 	- should I pull what we've released? *raised eyebrow*
>
> "...is the marketing and channel arm for PostgreSQL"
>
> 	- they are?
>
> I wonder, is Great Bridge going to step up and correct the *several*
> mis-conceptions that have been touted in their name?  There were alot of
> quotes from GB in there, so I wonder ... ?
>
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Lamar Owen wrote:
>
> > http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670
> >
> > Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
> > FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
> > journalistic license.
> > --
> > Lamar Owen
> > WGCR Internet Radio
> > 1 Peter 4:11
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
> >
>
> Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
> Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
>

-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
         56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:34:18 -0400 (EDT)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: Hey guys, check this out.

okay, I didn't get a copy of it ... :(

On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

>
> I rarely sign a note as the webmaster, I like to keep a low profile.
> I just sent the witch a note and made it a point to let her know who
> I am - and BCCd Marc.  He can cross post it if he wishes.  I also sent
> it to the editor of that rag.
>
> Vince.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> >
> > there is little, to nothing, factual about that whole article ...
> >
> > "Great Bridge essentially gives away its open-source database application
> > at little cost..."
> >
> > 	- thannk god I can get it completely for free, eh?
> >
> > "Great Bridge executives say their licensing costs for the software..."
> >
> > 	- someone want to tell me when they started charging licensing
> > 	  costs?
> >
> > "...nearly 25 years ago"
> >
> > 	- I thought it was around '85?  That's only 15 years ...
> >
> > "Version 7.1, due to ship at the end of June..."
> >
> > 	- should I pull what we've released? *raised eyebrow*
> >
> > "...is the marketing and channel arm for PostgreSQL"
> >
> > 	- they are?
> >
> > I wonder, is Great Bridge going to step up and correct the *several*
> > mis-conceptions that have been touted in their name?  There were alot of
> > quotes from GB in there, so I wonder ... ?
> >
> > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Lamar Owen wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670
> > >
> > > Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
> > > FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
> > > journalistic license.
> > > --
> > > Lamar Owen
> > > WGCR Internet Radio
> > > 1 Peter 4:11
> > >
> > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
> > >
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
> > >
> >
> > Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
> > Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> > primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
> >
>
> --
> ==========================================================================
> Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
>          56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
>         Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
>        Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
> ==========================================================================
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
> subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
>

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org


Sun, 15 Apr 2001 01:36:39 -0300 (ADT)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: Hey guys, check this out.
At 10:59 PM 14-04-2001 -0400, Lamar Owen wrote:
>http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670
>
>Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
>FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
>journalistic license.

Reporter must have missed the April 1st deadline.

;)

Still I must point out that the article isn't negative. And if it's read by
PHB's it doesn't make a difference anyway <grin>- the general gist is: it's
decent, cheap, and virtually as good as proprietary databases.

So what if there are factual errors. This is mass-media we're talking
about. Just point it out if it's really negative AND it's strategically
appropriate to do so. 

By saying there's "nothing factual" does that apply to the following as well?

"Great Bridge is on the forefront of the open-source movement in providing
tools that are enterprisewide and capable, and what's compelling is they
provide the 24x7 support"

I think some of you guys are overreacting. It's almost like those FreeBSD
advocates slamming Tucows or something. 

Maybe you guys should get some Great Bridge marketing/PR person to handle
stuff like this.

Cheerio,
Link.


Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:31:27 +0800
Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
Re: Hey guys, check this out.
On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Lincoln Yeoh wrote:

> Maybe you guys should get some Great Bridge marketing/PR person to handle
> stuff like this.

After reading Ned's comments I figured that's how it got that way in
the first place.  But that's just speculation.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
         56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:05:46 -0400 (EDT)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: Re: Hey guys, check this out.
On Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 10:05:46PM -0400, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Lincoln Yeoh wrote:
> 
> > Maybe you guys should get some Great Bridge marketing/PR person to handle
> > stuff like this.
> 
> After reading Ned's comments I figured that's how it got that way in
> the first place.  But that's just speculation.

You probably figured wrong.  

All those publications have editors who generally feel they're not 
doing their job if they don't introduce errors, usually without even 
talking to the reporter.  That's probably how the "FreeBSD" reference 
got in there: somebody saw "Berkeley" and decided "FreeBSD" would look 
more "techie".  It's stupid, but nothng to excoriate the reporter about.

Sam Williams's articles read completely differently according to 
who publishes them.  Typically the Linux magazines print what he 
writes, and thereby get it mostly right, but the finance magazines 
mangle them to total nonsense.

Nathan Myers
ncm@zembu.com

Sun, 15 Apr 2001 20:38:05 -0700
ncm@zembu.com (Nathan Myers)
Re: Re: Hey guys, check this out.
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com> writes:
> On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Lincoln Yeoh wrote:
>> Maybe you guys should get some Great Bridge marketing/PR person to handle
>> stuff like this.

> After reading Ned's comments I figured that's how it got that way in
> the first place.  But that's just speculation.

It's pretty obvious that CRN's article was written after talking to a
Great Bridge marketing or PR person (and no one else :-().  GB *is*
engaged in trying to attract positive press attention to PostgreSQL
(and itself of course); I hope no one is bothered by that activity per
se.  Now without having a transcript of that conversation, it's
difficult to know whether the errors in the article should be blamed
more on the CRN reporter or more on the GB person.  I'd tend to blame
the reporter, but you might well wish to discount that as the biased
view of a GB employee.  I will say that all the GB people I talk to
understand the difference between GB and the Postgres open-source
community --- but this reporter evidently does not.

By and large, I agree with Nathan Myers' comments.  We can either see
this as a chance to educate that reporter about what open source is all
about, or we can flame her and turn her off open source completely.
Let's try to take the high road.

			regards, tom lane

Sun, 15 Apr 2001 23:50:11 -0400
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: Re: Hey guys, check this out. 
At 08:38 PM 15-04-2001 -0700, you wrote:
>On Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 10:05:46PM -0400, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Lincoln Yeoh wrote:
>> 
>> > Maybe you guys should get some Great Bridge marketing/PR person to handle
>> > stuff like this.
>> 
>> After reading Ned's comments I figured that's how it got that way in
>> the first place.  But that's just speculation.
>
>You probably figured wrong.  
>
>All those publications have editors who generally feel they're not 
>doing their job if they don't introduce errors, usually without even 
>talking to the reporter.  That's probably how the "FreeBSD" reference 
>got in there: somebody saw "Berkeley" and decided "FreeBSD" would look 
>more "techie".  It's stupid, but nothng to excoriate the reporter about.

Sometime back we were announcing a product and practically wrote everything
for the journalists and gave it to them so that they could just print it,
and one newspaper still got LOTs of things wrong. In contrast another
newspaper was much better tho - facts right.

The standards haven't changed much, so I don't really bother reading the
first newspaper for a lot of things. Whereas the 2nd one still seems to do
ok for tech stuff. 

They're very rarely 100% correct. But they're primarily journalists, if
they were even 99.99% correct about things they'd probably be releasing
Postgresql 8 instead of you guys ;).

I believe you should choose your battles. Sometimes it's just not worth
fighting, not even worth commenting. Other times it's almost compulsory
even though there's no obvious/direct _personal_ gain in it.

Also look at the various stories and commentary floating about in the media
about the recent US-China plane incident. And what really happened? I
figure at least one of the planes should have a video recording of the
incident. But we have everyone guessing what happened instead. Doh.

Cheerio,
Link.


Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:21:21 +0800
Lincoln Yeoh <lyeoh@pop.jaring.my>
Re: Re: Hey guys, check this out.