Slashdot just announced that SAP has released the souce for SAP DB under
GPL.  Not sure what this mean, or what people think, but I thought the
hackers list might want to know.

http://slashdot.org/developers/01/04/28/016220.shtml

http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/develop/dev_sources.htm

Matt

Sat, 28 Apr 2001 12:17:58 -0500
Matthew <matt@ctlno.com>
SAPDB Open Souce
Hi guys,

I've used the open source SAPDB and the performance is pretty damned
impressive. However, 'open source' in application to it is somewhat
deceptive, since you have to make it with SAP's proprietary build
tools/environment.

In my opinion, however, it would be worth closely auditing SAP DB to see
what postgres can learn.

Gavin

On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Matthew wrote:

> Slashdot just announced that SAP has released the souce for SAP DB under
> GPL.  Not sure what this mean, or what people think, but I thought the
> hackers list might want to know.
> 
> http://slashdot.org/developers/01/04/28/016220.shtml
> 
> http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/develop/dev_sources.htm
> 
> Matt
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
> 
> http://www.postgresql.org/search.mpl
> 


Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:17:16 +1000 (EST)
Gavin Sherry <swm@linuxworld.com.au>
Re: SAPDB Open Souce
> Hi guys,
> 
> I've used the open source SAPDB and the performance is pretty damned
> impressive. However, 'open source' in application to it is somewhat
> deceptive, since you have to make it with SAP's proprietary build
> tools/environment.
> 
> In my opinion, however, it would be worth closely auditing SAP DB to see
> what postgres can learn.

I downloaded it.  The directories are two characters in length, the
files are numbers, and it is a mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal.  Need
I say more.  :-)

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Sat, 28 Apr 2001 22:33:57 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: SAPDB Open Souce
> I downloaded it.  The directories are two characters in length, the
> files are numbers, and it is a mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal.  Need
> I say more.  :-)

1.) What is wrong with a mixture of C++, Python and Pascal? Nothing IMHO.

2.) The directory structure is probably the consequence of the development
tools (produced automatically). Such a structure can have advantages, too.

3.) I left Germany 6 years ago. I don't know what happened in the meantime,
but at that time (and the past 10 years before that) virtually any major
business and the majority of large hospitals were running on SAP. AFAIK,
similar in other european countries. Complaints about the horrendous price
structure (par with Oracle) - yes. Complaints about crappy user interfaces -
yes. Complaints about arrogant support team - yes. But *no* complaints
regarding data integrity, robustness, and almost no complaints regarding
performance.

Therefore, I think it should not be disregarded too quickly. There is
certainly something to learn from it by studying it; that would be probably
more productive than using the same time just thinking about own design.
(Maybe start looking at their developer manuals, which are *really* helpful
if you want to develop something with SAP).

I can't help it (as much as I admire Postgres, and as much as I like using
it), but I always perceive a certain air of arrogance blowing from this
list - a feeling I don't get from other open source projects. I might be
wrong here.

Regards,
Horst


Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:10:52 +1000
"Horst Herb" <hherb@malleenet.net.au>
Re: SAPDB Open Souce
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> I downloaded it.  The directories are two characters in length, the
> files are numbers, and it is a mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal.  Need
> I say more.  :-)

OK, I'll bite: you need to say more.

What is it like at handling transactions?  What sort of full-text indexing does it
have?  Can I have transactions within transactions?  What sort of tools are
available for managing database extents?  How compliant is it with the various SQL
standards?  How does performance compare with PostgreSQL and others?  Does it have
an extensible type system?  Does it have an 'internal' language to compare with
PL/SQL or PL/PGSQL?  How well does it scale on SMP systems?  Can I perform a single
query across multiple databases?  What performance monitoring tools does it come
with?

Hell, in a statement like that you don't even indicate if those directories are
so-named within the source code, or in an installed data environment.  Whichever
environment they do apply to, however, I'm sure there are good systems in place for
dealing with them.  And of course C++, Python and Pascal are all languages with
plenty of proponents, so there's no problem with those.

Your statement is so light on utility that it persuades me to download it for myself
and try it - but that is presumably exactly the effect you were after, wasn't it?

Regards,
					Andrew.
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
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Catalyst IT Ltd, PO Box 10-225, Level 22, 105 The Terrace, Wellington
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Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:44:27 +1200
Andrew McMillan <andrew@catalyst.net.nz>
Re: SAPDB Open Souce
> I downloaded it.  The directories are two characters in length, the
> files are numbers, and it is a mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal.  Need
> I say more.  :-)

Yes!

You, or better someone who knows SAP DB could tell if it's "probably the most 
complete free database system available right now, with much more features 
than interbase, mysql or postgresql" as this guy Hemos says on Slashdot.

I remember the same being said about Interbase when it was OSS'ed, but I 
still stick to PostgreSQL.

But knowledge doesn't hurt, and as someone pointed out, you can't tell the 
quality of the software from the names of your source code.
But it sure makes it a lot more difficult to understand what's going on, I'll 
grant you that :-)

-- 
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Sun, 29 Apr 2001 10:14:18 +0200
Kaare Rasmussen <kar@webline.dk>
Re: SAPDB Open Souce
> Bruce Momjian wrote:  > > I downloaded it.  The directories are
> two characters in length, the > files are numbers, and it is a
> mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal.  Need > I say more.  :-)
> 
> OK, I'll bite: you need to say more.
> 
> What is it like at handling transactions?  What sort of full-text
> indexing does it have?  Can I have transactions within transactions?
> What sort of tools are available for managing database extents?
> How compliant is it with the various SQL standards?  How does
> performance compare with PostgreSQL and others?  Does it have
> an extensible type system?  Does it have an 'internal' language
> to compare with PL/SQL or PL/PGSQL?  How well does it scale on
> SMP systems?  Can I perform a single query across multiple
> databases?  What performance monitoring tools does it come with?
> 
> Hell, in a statement like that you don't even indicate if those
> directories are so-named within the source code, or in an
> installed data environment.  Whichever environment they do apply
> to, however, I'm sure there are good systems in place for dealing
> with them.  And of course C++, Python and Pascal are all languages
> with plenty of proponents, so there's no problem with those.
> 
> Your statement is so light on utility that it persuades me to
> download it for myself and try it - but that is presumably
> exactly the effect you were after, wasn't it?

OK, basically, I couldn't figure out any of it.  I am sure there are
useful things in there, but I can't figure out how to find any of them. 
Hopefully others will be better at it than I am.

And yes, it would be good for people to look over the code and see if
they can find valuable things in it.

--
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:30:42 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: SAPDB Open Souce
> You, or better someone who knows SAP DB could tell if it's "probably the most 
> complete free database system available right now, with much more features 
> than interbase, mysql or postgresql" as this guy Hemos says on Slashdot.
> 
> I remember the same being said about Interbase when it was OSS'ed, but I 
> still stick to PostgreSQL.
> 
> But knowledge doesn't hurt, and as someone pointed out, you can't tell the 
> quality of the software from the names of your source code.
> But it sure makes it a lot more difficult to understand what's going on, I'll 
> grant you that :-)

That was my point.  It is very hard to make sense of the code, at least
for me.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:31:29 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: SAPDB Open Souce


Bruce Momjian schrieb:
> 
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > I've used the open source SAPDB and the performance is pretty damned
> > impressive. However, 'open source' in application to it is somewhat
> > deceptive, since you have to make it with SAP's proprietary build
> > tools/environment.
> >
> > In my opinion, however, it would be worth closely auditing SAP DB to see
> > what postgres can learn.
> 
> I downloaded it.  The directories are two characters in length, the
> files are numbers, and it is a mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal.  Need
> I say more.  :-)
> 

 Well, I used to use PostgreSQL and Adabas / SAP-DB and after that it's
pretty much clear now, that there're not so many arguments for 
PostgreSQL. 


 Marten

Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:11:07 +0100
M.Feldtmann@t-online.de (Marten Feldtmann)
Re: SAPDB Open Souce
Horst Herb wrote:
> > I downloaded it.  The directories are two characters in length, the
> > files are numbers, and it is a mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal.  Need
> > I say more.  :-)
>
> 1.) What is wrong with a mixture of C++, Python and Pascal? Nothing IMHO.
>
> 2.) The directory structure is probably the consequence of the development
> tools (produced automatically). Such a structure can have advantages, too.
>
> 3.) I left Germany 6 years ago. I don't know what happened in the meantime,
> but at that time (and the past 10 years before that) virtually any major
> business and the majority of large hospitals were running on SAP. AFAIK,
> similar in other european countries. Complaints about the horrendous price
> structure (par with Oracle) - yes. Complaints about crappy user interfaces -
> yes. Complaints about arrogant support team - yes. But *no* complaints
> regarding data integrity, robustness, and almost no complaints regarding
> performance.

    Don't  mix  up  SAP's  application (R/3 today and R/2 before)
    with SAP DB. Most of the customers I've seen (and I've worked
    as  an SAP R/3 base-consultant for the past 10 years) ran SAP
    R/3 on top of Oracle.  So  that's  where  the  integrity  and
    robustness  came  from.  And  I've  got  may  complaints  WRT
    performance - but  fortunately  our  projects  where  usually
    located  in the multi-$M range, so simply throwing bucks into
    iron worked.


Jan

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Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:41:53 -0500 (EST)
Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>
Re: SAPDB Open Souce