Internet is putting lot of competition fire & heat under Microsoft SQL
Server

Your boss will tell you - "Now, that we have high speed internet
connection
why do you need commercial SQL servers?? Simply use your mouse button,
click and
download the open-source Postgresql, InterBase or MySQL !!!!"

There will be no Oracle or Microsoft Corporation in about 2-3 years time
(as Internet is
a very big threat to Oracle/Microsoft corporation). Microsoft corp will
be a dead
meat....because of lightening speed broad-band-internet.

If you are running MS Windows 2000/NT, then here is the chance for you
to try this superb SQL RDBMS open-source database.

Now, PostgreSQL is packaged in Cygwin32-setup.exe, simply download the
cygwin setup.exe  and double click on setup.exe
to install and run PostgreSQL on MS Windows 2000/NT

Installing and running the pgsql on MS Windows is extremely easy now and

is quite rock solid on Windows 2000/NT desktop or server

PostgreSQL is a "LINUX" of database systems - very powerful and
reliable..

Everybody is asking "What is the equivalent of Linux in SQL databases
??"
The answer is "PostgreSQL" RDBMS server.

Please try and go to http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/download.html
to download cygwin (which has pgsql)

After installing the cygwin, read the user guides at
http://www.postgresql.org

Your boss will say - "Purchase commercial support for PostgresQL from
GreatBridge at http://greatbridge.com or from http://www.mysql.com .
Microsoft
products costs too much money!!! Why do need these MS SQL servers
anymore ????"

Open-source SQL RDBMS and their rankings are -
Ranked 1st Gold Medal   : PostgreSQL http://www.postgresql.org
Ranked 2nd Silver Medal : Interbase SQLserver
http://www.borland.com/devsupport/interbase/opensource
Ranked 3rd Bronze Medal : MySQL http://www.mysql.com
Ranked 4th              : Many others ....





Sun, 13 May 2001 03:22:46 GMT
universe_made_of_atoms <almighty99@hotmail.com>
Internet is putting lot of competition fire & heat under Microsoft
	SQL Server
Seems little point in posting this to postgresql groups . . .preaching to
the converted??? Perhaps you should post on a micro$oft or a general SQL
group?

Oh, and how about a good guide for upsizing from M$ SQL and / or M$ ACCESS
to Postgresql - that'd be far more usefull ...

(Aside: Money is not the real issue here. I had nothing against Microsoft in
the past, in fact with WIN98SE / Office 97, I was quite impressed with the
ease of use, and usefulness of the applications - now some stability issues
needed fixing - and I had looked forward to WinMe / Office 2K to fixing
these issues. Since 'upgrading' to WinMe / Office 2K, however, I've had at
least 1 or 2 crashes per day. Saving a Word document shouldn't bring down
the whole OS!! Thus, I'm now thoroughly disgruntled. If I'm now looking for
alternatives to Windoze and M$ applications - it's entirely Microsoft's
fault for rushing out incomplete and buggy software, and then trying to
'dupe' their customers into buying 'upgrades', instead of admitting that
they're really beta releases. BTW, why the heck do we need new office
applications every 1 to 2 years anyway?  Most of the M$ Office users in my
company haven't even got to grips with even one tenth the functionality of
Office 95 yet!).

Regards,
SGO.
"universe_made_of_atoms" <almighty99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3AFDFE9C.C8F3DECF@hotmail.com...
> Internet is putting lot of competition fire & heat under Microsoft SQL
> Server
>
> Your boss will tell you - "Now, that we have high speed internet
> connection
> why do you need commercial SQL servers?? Simply use your mouse button,
> click and
> download the open-source Postgresql, InterBase or MySQL !!!!"
>
> There will be no Oracle or Microsoft Corporation in about 2-3 years time
> (as Internet is
> a very big threat to Oracle/Microsoft corporation). Microsoft corp will
> be a dead
> meat....because of lightening speed broad-band-internet.
>
> If you are running MS Windows 2000/NT, then here is the chance for you
> to try this superb SQL RDBMS open-source database.
>
> Now, PostgreSQL is packaged in Cygwin32-setup.exe, simply download the
> cygwin setup.exe  and double click on setup.exe
> to install and run PostgreSQL on MS Windows 2000/NT
>
> Installing and running the pgsql on MS Windows is extremely easy now and
>
> is quite rock solid on Windows 2000/NT desktop or server
>
> PostgreSQL is a "LINUX" of database systems - very powerful and
> reliable..
>
> Everybody is asking "What is the equivalent of Linux in SQL databases
> ??"
> The answer is "PostgreSQL" RDBMS server.
>
> Please try and go to http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/download.html
> to download cygwin (which has pgsql)
>
> After installing the cygwin, read the user guides at
> http://www.postgresql.org
>
> Your boss will say - "Purchase commercial support for PostgresQL from
> GreatBridge at http://greatbridge.com or from http://www.mysql.com .
> Microsoft
> products costs too much money!!! Why do need these MS SQL servers
> anymore ????"
>
> Open-source SQL RDBMS and their rankings are -
> Ranked 1st Gold Medal   : PostgreSQL http://www.postgresql.org
> Ranked 2nd Silver Medal : Interbase SQLserver
> http://www.borland.com/devsupport/interbase/opensource
> Ranked 3rd Bronze Medal : MySQL http://www.mysql.com
> Ranked 4th              : Many others ....
>
>
>
>



Mon, 14 May 2001 11:17:11 +0800
"Steve O'Hagan" <sohagan@dont-spam-me-stanger.com.hk>
Re: Internet is putting lot of competition fire & heat under
	Microsoft SQL Server
Hi,

This sort of post is giving open source software a bad name.

I am glad that this post has only reached a small number of people who
are already pro-PostgreSQL and has not reached the crowd who needs
convincing that their time, attention, enthusiasm, and money is better
spent on PostgreSQL than on MS SQL Server (in the long run, due to the
"business model".  I know that Microsoft bought Jim Gray and a number
of other people who are in a position to build amazing things; well,
we have Stonebraker ... or at least had him).

If anybody wishes to do good, they better start off by reading one of
the advocacy documents.  Many of the advocacy arguments that apply to
Linux can equally well be used in the context of PostgreSQL.  One
might start reading here:

	http://linuxtoday.com/stories/1847.html

The gist of the matter is, a post that contains expletives, excessive
use of the word "boss", derisive mockings of large companies (M$ would
be such a mocking), or other unqualified drivel without informational
content, will make people think that the whole crowd around PostgreSQL
is stupid.

An argued comparison of standards compliance with a list of 5
intentional deviations by a Microsoft product might be more
convincing.

So please stop posting ignorant, but enthusiastic messages that give
the development team a bad name.

Thank you,

Oliver Seidel

15 May 2001 09:05:45 +0200
Oliver Seidel <seidel@in-medias-res.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Internet is putting lot of competition fire & heat
	under Microsoft SQL Server
Hi Steve,

I don't know if you taken a look at them yet, but there are a number of
Microsoft Access to PostgreSQL conversion documents linked to from the
main page of the techdocs.postgresql.org website. 
(http://techdocs.postgresql.org)

If they need improving, then let us know in which way, etc.  :-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

Steve O'Hagan wrote:
> 
> Seems little point in posting this to postgresql groups . . .preaching to
> the converted??? Perhaps you should post on a micro$oft or a general SQL
> group?
> 
> Oh, and how about a good guide for upsizing from M$ SQL and / or M$ ACCESS
> to Postgresql - that'd be far more usefull ...

-- 
"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
     - Indira Gandhi

Tue, 15 May 2001 20:40:08 +1000
Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org>
Re: Re: Internet is putting lot of competition fire & heat
	under Microsoft SQL  Server
Thus spake universe_made_of_atoms
> PostgreSQL is a "LINUX" of database systems - very powerful and
> reliable..
> 
> Everybody is asking "What is the equivalent of Linux in SQL databases
> ??"
> The answer is "PostgreSQL" RDBMS server.

Oh please.  Can we stop trying to tie everything to the current front
runner.  I mean, PostgreSQL uses the BSD style license, development
is done under the BSD (cathedral) model and hey, it was invented at
Berkeley in the first place.  How is it the "equivalent of Linux"
other than that it has the same price tag more or less.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net>   |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.

Tue, 15 May 2001 07:19:01 -0400 (EDT)
darcy@druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Re: [HACKERS] Internet is putting lot of competition fire & heat
 under
	Microsoft SQL  Server
Hi !

I have 2 servers running apache, php and PG 7.0.3 running under Linux

The first one uses IDE disks, and everything run fine and fast. (uses linux 
2.0.36)

The second one uses SCSI drives with a Adaptec adapter. (uses Linux 2.2.14)

My problem is that acces to the DB on this server are very very slow (I 
guess that it s particulary slow when i do INSERTs)
It s so slow that even the keyboard and the display slow down ! The HD 
write or read a lot...
When I do a "ps" or "top", I don't see any process taking all the ressources...

So, I guess there is something whith the SCSI...

Is anybody has a clue ??

thanks !

jean-arthur
PS : I did a vacuum analyze, and the table are not so big (max tuples are 
5000 )

----------------------------------------------------------------
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75583 Paris Cedex 12
Tel : 01 44 67 05 05
Fax : 01 44 67 05 19
Web : http://www.eurovox.fr
----------------------------------------------------------------


Tue, 15 May 2001 16:17:22 +0200
Jean-Arthur Silve <jeanarthur@eurovox.fr>
Not a PG question: SCSI question
On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 07:19:01AM -0400, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:

> > Everybody is asking "What is the equivalent of Linux in SQL databases
> > ??"
> > The answer is "PostgreSQL" RDBMS server.
> 
> Oh please.  Can we stop trying to tie everything to the current front
> runner.  I mean, PostgreSQL uses the BSD style license, development

	It uses _the_ BSD license. 

> is done under the BSD (cathedral) model and hey, it was invented at
> Berkeley in the first place.  How is it the "equivalent of Linux"
> other than that it has the same price tag more or less.

	I'm not defending the comparison/analogy, just saying that it makes
sense to lay people who have heard of "Linux" when they are explained
about PostgreSQL.

	-Roberto
-- 
+----| http://fslc.usu.edu USU Free Software & GNU/Linux Club |------+
  Roberto Mello - Computer Science, USU - http://www.brasileiro.net 
       http://www.sdl.usu.edu - Space Dynamics Lab, Developer    
Bad command or file name. Go sit in corner.

Tue, 15 May 2001 09:07:44 -0600
Roberto Mello <rmello@cc.usu.edu>
Re: [HACKERS] Internet is putting lot of competition fire & heat
	under Microsoft SQL Server
Hi,


Let me get this straight...;-)

The IDE server is running Linux 2.0.36 with PHP and Apache.

The SCSI server is running with PostgreSQL 7.0.3 ??

And you're talking about speed in inserts? 

Try to use a kernel after 2.2.16 or the current 2.4.4 series, they
handle memory management rather well..   You should also optimize your
kernel depending upon your system's needs... like increasing the total
number of process, the amount of memory one application can use..  The
maximum number of files.. etc...  Most of these are runtime tweaks found
at the /proc/sys directory...;-)

On the PostgreSQL side, you also need to optimize it a little bit... 
Kindly read the fine manual for this...;-)

Apache and PHP...  well, here's a sort of bottleneck in itself...  You
may need to increase your PHP (PHP4) scripts performance via Zend's
Cache, Zend Optimizer, APC, and/or the PHP Smarty Template...  

You can also further increase performance if you have all your compiled
PHP scripts under a RAM Disk System...;-)

But one of the greatest bottlenecks that may not be so obvious...  Is a
rather simple one...;-)  Each time you try to do an insert to your
PostgreSQL database from your PHP application, you have to initialize a
new connection...;-)

I don't know how you accessed your server...  Via psql?  or from an
application...;-)  And how did you do you INSERTS?  Did you use
Transactions?  Did you enable -F so that PostgreSQL doesn't write to
your HDD often???

Cheers,


John Clark

Jean-Arthur Silve wrote:
> 
> Hi !
> 
> I have 2 servers running apache, php and PG 7.0.3 running under Linux
> 
> The first one uses IDE disks, and everything run fine and fast. (uses linux
> 2.0.36)
> 
> The second one uses SCSI drives with a Adaptec adapter. (uses Linux 2.2.14)
> 
> My problem is that acces to the DB on this server are very very slow (I
> guess that it s particulary slow when i do INSERTs)
> It s so slow that even the keyboard and the display slow down ! The HD
> write or read a lot...
> When I do a "ps" or "top", I don't see any process taking all the ressources...
> 
> So, I guess there is something whith the SCSI...
> 
> Is anybody has a clue ??
> 
> thanks !
> 
> jean-arthur
> PS : I did a vacuum analyze, and the table are not so big (max tuples are
> 5000 )
> 

-- 
     /) John Clark Naldoza y Lopez                           (\
    / )    Software Design Engineer II                       ( \
  _( (_    _  Web-Application Development                    _) )_
 (((\ \>  /_>    Cable Modem Network Management System <_\  </ /)))
 (\\\\ \_/ /         NEC Telecom Software Phils., Inc.  \ \_/ ////)
  \       /                                              \       /
   \    _/  phone: (+63 32) 233-9142 loc. 3112            \_    /
   /   /  cellphone: (+63 919) 399-4742                     \   \
  /   / email: njclark@ntsp.nec.co.jp                        \   \

Wed, 16 May 2001 08:44:16 +0800
"John Clark L. Naldoza" <njclark@ntsp.nec.co.jp>
Re: Not a PG question: SCSI question
Thanks, some useful stuff at http://techdocs.postgresql.org. I'd only found
the info given at http://www.ca.postgresql.org/interfaces.html , perhaps the
two should be more tightly cross-referenced.

The 'POSTGRESQL & ACCESS FAQ' solved a couple of problems I've been
experiencing. However, still draft version of FAQ so, a lot of stuff not
finished yet.

I did note that the link on the http://www.ca.postgresql.org/interfaces.html
page :

 http://nsmsweb3.oucs.ox.ac.uk/pg/Pgsetup.html

Always gives me an 'access forbidden error', and the link on the
http://techdocs.postgresql.org page:

http://www.bcinternet.com/%7Ehilliard/postgresqlport.cfm

appears to be dead...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Clift" <justin@postgresql.org>
To: "Steve O'Hagan" <sohagan@stanger.com.hk>
Cc: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Re: Internet is putting lot of competition fire &
heat under Microsoft SQL Server


> Hi Steve,
>
> I don't know if you taken a look at them yet, but there are a number of
> Microsoft Access to PostgreSQL conversion documents linked to from the
> main page of the techdocs.postgresql.org website.
> (http://techdocs.postgresql.org)
>
> If they need improving, then let us know in which way, etc.  :-)
>
> Regards and best wishes,
>
> Justin Clift
>
> Steve O'Hagan wrote:
> >
> > Seems little point in posting this to postgresql groups . . .preaching
to
> > the converted??? Perhaps you should post on a micro$oft or a general SQL
> > group?
> >
> > Oh, and how about a good guide for upsizing from M$ SQL and / or M$
ACCESS
> > to Postgresql - that'd be far more usefull ...
>
> --
> "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
> who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
> first group; there was less competition there."
>      - Indira Gandhi


Wed, 16 May 2001 10:18:24 +0800
"Steve O'Hagan" <sohagan@stanger.com.hk>
Re: Re: Internet is putting lot of competition fire & heat under
	Microsoft SQL Server
Hi

Just a little miss I think John did.
With PHP you dont have to start a new connection everytime.
You can use the good ole pg_pconnect. It is a persistant connection to 
the server.
The server keeps a pool of connections open for fast access.

There has been some problems with this so I recommend PHP 4.0.5.
It is, among other things, a matter of issuing a rollback at the end of 
the request on each page.

Best regards
Per-Olof Pettersson

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

On 2001-05-16, 03:06:36, njclark@ntsp.nec.co.jp ("John Clark L. Naldoza") 
wrote regarding Re: Not a PG question: SCSI question:


> Hi,


> Let me get this straight...;-)

> The IDE server is running Linux 2.0.36 with PHP and Apache.

> The SCSI server is running with PostgreSQL 7.0.3 ??

> And you're talking about speed in inserts?

> Try to use a kernel after 2.2.16 or the current 2.4.4 series, they
> handle memory management rather well..   You should also optimize your
> kernel depending upon your system's needs... like increasing the total
> number of process, the amount of memory one application can use..  The
> maximum number of files.. etc...  Most of these are runtime tweaks found
> at the /proc/sys directory...;-)

> On the PostgreSQL side, you also need to optimize it a little bit...
> Kindly read the fine manual for this...;-)

> Apache and PHP...  well, here's a sort of bottleneck in itself...  You
> may need to increase your PHP (PHP4) scripts performance via Zend's
> Cache, Zend Optimizer, APC, and/or the PHP Smarty Template...

> You can also further increase performance if you have all your compiled
> PHP scripts under a RAM Disk System...;-)

> But one of the greatest bottlenecks that may not be so obvious...  Is a
> rather simple one...;-)  Each time you try to do an insert to your
> PostgreSQL database from your PHP application, you have to initialize a
> new connection...;-)

> I don't know how you accessed your server...  Via psql?  or from an
> application...;-)  And how did you do you INSERTS?  Did you use
> Transactions?  Did you enable -F so that PostgreSQL doesn't write to
> your HDD often???

> Cheers,


> John Clark

> Jean-Arthur Silve wrote:
> >
> > Hi !
> >
> > I have 2 servers running apache, php and PG 7.0.3 running under Linux
> >
> > The first one uses IDE disks, and everything run fine and fast. (uses 
linux
> > 2.0.36)
> >
> > The second one uses SCSI drives with a Adaptec adapter. (uses Linux 
2.2.14)
> >
> > My problem is that acces to the DB on this server are very very slow (I
> > guess that it s particulary slow when i do INSERTs)
> > It s so slow that even the keyboard and the display slow down ! The HD
> > write or read a lot...
> > When I do a "ps" or "top", I don't see any process taking all the 
ressources...
> >
> > So, I guess there is something whith the SCSI...
> >
> > Is anybody has a clue ??
> >
> > thanks !
> >
> > jean-arthur
> > PS : I did a vacuum analyze, and the table are not so big (max tuples are
> > 5000 )
> >

> --
>      /) John Clark Naldoza y Lopez                           (\
>     / )    Software Design Engineer II                       ( \
>   _( (_    _  Web-Application Development                    _) )_
>  (((\ \>  /_>    Cable Modem Network Management System <_\  </ /)))
>  (\\\\ \_/ /         NEC Telecom Software Phils., Inc.  \ \_/ ////)
>   \       /                                              \       /
>    \    _/  phone: (+63 32) 233-9142 loc. 3112            \_    /
>    /   /  cellphone: (+63 919) 399-4742                     \   \
>   /   / email: njclark@ntsp.nec.co.jp                        \   \

> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
> subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Wed, 16 May 2001 03:40:40 GMT
Per-Olof Pettersson <pgsql@peope.net>
Re: Not a PG question: SCSI question
On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 03:40:40AM +0000, some SMTP stream spewed forth: 
> Hi
> 
> Just a little miss I think John did.
> With PHP you dont have to start a new connection everytime.
> You can use the good ole pg_pconnect. It is a persistant connection to 
> the server.
> The server keeps a pool of connections open for fast access.

This should not be mistaken as connection pooling, per se.
Persistent connections maintain a PostgreSQL backend for each unique
account connecting per httpd process.

3 unique accounts -> 3 backends per httpd.
10 httpd's -> 30 backends.

> There has been some problems with this so I recommend PHP 4.0.5.
> It is, among other things, a matter of issuing a rollback at the end of 
> the request on each page.

I second this, or at least patching your sources and reinstalling if you
plan to move to persistent connections under a non-new version of PHP. I
have wasted much first-hand time debugging silly PHP connection messes.

Cheers,
dan

> 
> Best regards
> Per-Olof Pettersson
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> On 2001-05-16, 03:06:36, njclark@ntsp.nec.co.jp ("John Clark L. Naldoza") 
> wrote regarding Re: Not a PG question: SCSI question:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> 
> 
> > Let me get this straight...;-)
*snip*
> 
> > But one of the greatest bottlenecks that may not be so obvious...  Is a
> > rather simple one...;-)  Each time you try to do an insert to your
> > PostgreSQL database from your PHP application, you have to initialize a
> > new connection...;-)
> 
*snip*
> 
> > Cheers,
> 
> > John Clark
> 
*snip original message*
> 
> > --
> >      /) John Clark Naldoza y Lopez                           (\
> >     / )    Software Design Engineer II                       ( \
> >   _( (_    _  Web-Application Development                    _) )_
> >  (((\ \>  /_>    Cable Modem Network Management System <_\  </ /)))
> >  (\\\\ \_/ /         NEC Telecom Software Phils., Inc.  \ \_/ ////)
> >   \       /                                              \       /
> >    \    _/  phone: (+63 32) 233-9142 loc. 3112            \_    /
> >    /   /  cellphone: (+63 919) 399-4742                     \   \
> >   /   / email: njclark@ntsp.nec.co.jp                        \   \

Wow, remember, it is not the size of the .sig that makes the wave; it is
the motion of the ocean. Nine lines? pshaw.


Tue, 15 May 2001 23:54:44 -0500
GH <grasshacker@over-yonder.net>
Re: Re: Not a PG question: SCSI question