> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-cvs-commit-digest@hub.org
> [mailto:owner-cvs-commit-digest@hub.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:01 PM
> To: committers-digest@hub.org
> Subject: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:58:52 -0500 (EST)
> From: Peter Eisentraut - PostgreSQL <petere>
> Subject: [COMMITTERS] pgsql/src/interfaces/libpq (fe-misc.c 
> fe-print.c libpq-fe.h)
> 
>   Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 @ 11:58:51
> Author: petere
> 
> Update of /usr/local/cvsroot/pgsql/src/interfaces/libpq
>      from hub.org:/home/tmp/cvs-serv53967/src/interfaces/libpq
> 
> Modified Files:
> 	fe-misc.c fe-print.c libpq-fe.h 
> 
> - -----------------------------  Log Message  
> -----------------------------
> 
> A few minor psql enhancements
> Initdb help correction
> Changed end/abort to commit/rollback and changed related notices
> Commented out way old printing functions in libpq
> Fixed a typo in alter table / alter column
>

pqbool is removed from libpq-fe.h.
Couldn't compile interfaces/perl5 now.

In addition,this seems to change external interface of PQprint().
Is it OK ?

Regards.

Hiroshi Inoue
Inoue@tpf.co.jp
 

Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:31:19 +0900
"Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856
"Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp> writes:
>> From: Peter Eisentraut - PostgreSQL <petere>
>> Commented out way old printing functions in libpq

> pqbool is removed from libpq-fe.h.
> Couldn't compile interfaces/perl5 now.

> In addition,this seems to change external interface of PQprint().
> Is it OK ?

Not IMHO.  It looks like Peter has removed typedef pqbool (potentially
breaking application sources, not just perl5) and changed what were
pqbool == char fields into int fields (thereby breaking binaries that
depend on shared libraries of libpq).  Not to mention the advertised
change of removing documented API entry points.

Peter, you need to have a little more respect for stability of
library APIs.  Gratuitous breaking of backwards compatibility
is not the done thing around here.  It's especially not done
without any discussion.

			regards, tom lane

Tue, 01 Feb 2000 22:52:56 -0500
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856 
At 10:52 PM 2/1/00 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:

>Peter, you need to have a little more respect for stability of
>library APIs.  Gratuitous breaking of backwards compatibility
>is not the done thing around here.  It's especially not done
>without any discussion.

I thought we went over this a week ago...was I dreaming?

PG is intended to be a PROFESSIONAL product.  You don't arbitrarily
break things for the hell of it. 

PG has CUSTOMERS.  Not in the formal "we bought it" sense, but in
the moral and professional engineering sense.

You don't screw your customers without good reason, and when you
do you at least provide them cushions and soft mattresses and
advance notice.  Especially advance notice.  And if you do screw
them, you do so after you explore alternatives and come to realize
that there is no other course open to you.  And you offer them
a condom (i.e. an upgrade path).

Because they depend on you.

Is professionalism so hard to understand?



- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
  Nature photos, on-line guides, Pacific Northwest
  Rare Bird Alert Service and other goodies at
  http://donb.photo.net.

Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:34:17 -0800
Don Baccus <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856 
On Tue, 1 Feb 2000, Don Baccus wrote:

> At 10:52 PM 2/1/00 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
> 
> >Peter, you need to have a little more respect for stability of
> >library APIs.  Gratuitous breaking of backwards compatibility
> >is not the done thing around here.  It's especially not done
> >without any discussion.
> 
> I thought we went over this a week ago...was I dreaming?
> 
> PG is intended to be a PROFESSIONAL product.  You don't arbitrarily
> break things for the hell of it. 
> 
> PG has CUSTOMERS.  Not in the formal "we bought it" sense, but in
> the moral and professional engineering sense.
> 
> You don't screw your customers without good reason, and when you
> do you at least provide them cushions and soft mattresses and
> advance notice.  Especially advance notice.  And if you do screw
> them, you do so after you explore alternatives and come to realize
> that there is no other course open to you.  And you offer them
> a condom (i.e. an upgrade path).
> 
> Because they depend on you.
> 
> Is professionalism so hard to understand?

Don ... I try to stay out of stuff like this but ... TONE IT DOWN!

Peter is making mistakes, granted, but he is making them in a *NONE
PRODUCTION RELEASE* code tree ... if he messes with a -STABLE release in
this way, fine, your responses are justified, but, right now, I don't
think they are ...

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Wed, 2 Feb 2000 02:07:50 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856 
On Tue, Feb 01, 2000 at 09:34:17PM -0800, Don Baccus wrote:
> At 10:52 PM 2/1/00 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
> 
<deleted to save having to read that again> 

Ah Don, that's a little harsh, isn't it? Did Peter's actions in checking in
code lose you one minutes work, either time? I seem to recall that your not
tracking the CVS (which you shouldn't).  So your basically bitching about
_theoretical_ problems? Tom, as a core developer, is directly affected,
and has earned the right to chew out Peter. You, on the other hand, are
a kibitzer here, as am I. Your comments in technical discussions lead
me to believe that you are a professional developer, but you haven't
stepped up to the plate for postgresql, yet, and submitted code. Let the
current core developers deal with this: we all know your position!

Ross

-- 
Ross J. Reedstrom, Ph.D., <reedstrm@rice.edu> 
NSBRI Research Scientist/Programmer
Computer and Information Technology Institute
Rice University, 6100 S. Main St.,  Houston, TX 77005

Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:21:21 -0600
"Ross J. Reedstrom" <reedstrm@wallace.ece.rice.edu>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856
> > Is professionalism so hard to understand?
> 
> Don ... I try to stay out of stuff like this but ... TONE IT DOWN!
> 
> Peter is making mistakes, granted, but he is making them in a *NONE
> PRODUCTION RELEASE* code tree ... if he messes with a -STABLE release in
> this way, fine, your responses are justified, but, right now, I don't
> think they are ...

I also told Peter that 7.0 was a good time to remove routines that were
no longer needed.  Yes, it is a migration problem, but why drag around
functions forever that are useless.  Maybe he pulled one too many?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 2 Feb 2000 01:23:32 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856
> On Tue, Feb 01, 2000 at 09:34:17PM -0800, Don Baccus wrote:
> > At 10:52 PM 2/1/00 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
> > 
> <deleted to save having to read that again> 
> 
> Ah Don, that's a little harsh, isn't it? Did Peter's actions in checking in
> code lose you one minutes work, either time? I seem to recall that your not
> tracking the CVS (which you shouldn't).  So your basically bitching about
> _theoretical_ problems? Tom, as a core developer, is directly affected,
> and has earned the right to chew out Peter. You, on the other hand, are
> a kibitzer here, as am I. Your comments in technical discussions lead
> me to believe that you are a professional developer, but you haven't
> stepped up to the plate for postgresql, yet, and submitted code. Let the
> current core developers deal with this: we all know your position!

This is excellent advise.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 2 Feb 2000 01:31:10 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> I also told Peter that 7.0 was a good time to remove routines that were
> no longer needed.  Yes, it is a migration problem, but why drag around
> functions forever that are useless.  Maybe he pulled one too many?

We have in fact talked about removing some of the older-generation
print functions (though I was envisioning a slow process of labeling
them deprecated for a few releases...).  It was the quite unnecessary
modification of the exported PQprintOpt struct that got my Irish up.
I've fought way too many hard-to-debug crashes caused by that sort
of change.

			regards, tom lane

Wed, 02 Feb 2000 01:57:10 -0500
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856 
On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Hiroshi Inoue wrote:


> pqbool is removed from libpq-fe.h.
> Couldn't compile interfaces/perl5 now.
> 
> In addition,this seems to change external interface of PQprint().
> Is it OK ?

Darn, seems like I'm doing everything wrong these days. I gotta take some
time off to get my wits together. This is not anyone's fault out there,
maybe I just wasn't ready quite yet. I don't want to be the problem
person. I'll be back. (psql quoting bug will be fixed.)


-- 
Peter Eisentraut                  Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net                   75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/            Sweden


Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:37:48 +0100 (MET)
Peter Eisentraut <e99re41@DoCS.UU.SE>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856
At 12:21 AM 2/2/00 -0600, Ross J. Reedstrom wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 01, 2000 at 09:34:17PM -0800, Don Baccus wrote:
>> At 10:52 PM 2/1/00 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
>> 
><deleted to save having to read that again> 
>
>Ah Don, that's a little harsh, isn't it?

Yes, it is, and I apologize.  



- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
  Nature photos, on-line guides, Pacific Northwest
  Rare Bird Alert Service and other goodies at
  http://donb.photo.net.

Wed, 02 Feb 2000 06:33:18 -0800
Don Baccus <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856
"Ross J. Reedstrom" wrote:
> Ah Don, that's a little harsh, isn't it?

Yes, it was a little harsh, and Don apologized.

> Did Peter's actions in checking in
> code lose you one minutes work, either time? I seem to recall that your not
> tracking the CVS (which you shouldn't).

Wrong -- Don is one of the core (or lead) developers porting the
ArsDigita Community System from Oracle to PostgreSQL -- and in order to
do this he has indeed been tracking the CVS -- and in fact he is running
the pre-beta PostgreSQL 7 right now on a site with the pre-pre-beta ACS
port to PostgreSQL running on the beta AOLserver 3.0.  He also is a
major maintainer of the AOLserver driver for postgresql -- which could
be directly impacted by these changes.  So, even though Don hasn't been
a heavy contributor here as yet, I believe that he has a right to let
his position be known -- although a little more gently, perhaps.

Why does he need to do this?  Two words: Referential Integrity, which is
heavily used by the ACS.

I also track the current CVS -- but for a totally different reason, as I
want to be able to release RPMs of the beta release the same day as the
beta release -- thus, I am doing trial builds of RPM's against the CVS. 
However, this current issue doesn't impact me in the slightest -- which
is why I have not and will not say anything about it.

-- 
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:24:07 -0500
Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856
On Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 01:24:07PM -0500, Lamar Owen wrote:
> "Ross J. Reedstrom" wrote:
> > Ah Don, that's a little harsh, isn't it?
> 
> Yes, it was a little harsh, and Don apologized.
> 
> > Did Peter's actions in checking in
> > code lose you one minutes work, either time? I seem to recall that your not
> > tracking the CVS (which you shouldn't).
> 
> Wrong -- Don is one of the core (or lead) developers porting the

(details of what Don's up to)

Ah, now it's time for me to apologize. As I said, *I'm* the kibitzer
here, so I'll shut up now.

Ross
-- 
Ross J. Reedstrom, Ph.D., <reedstrm@rice.edu> 
NSBRI Research Scientist/Programmer
Computer and Information Technology Institute
Rice University, 6100 S. Main St.,  Houston, TX 77005

Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:06:19 -0600
"Ross J. Reedstrom" <reedstrm@wallace.ece.rice.edu>
Re: [HACKERS] RE: cvs-commit-digest V1 #856