I have been using MicroEmacs for 9 years, and have been looking for a
nice X editor.  I looked at Xemacs(too complex to configure), and some
others, but they did not have the required features.  I like a powerful
search/replace, tags support, macro support, as-you-type syntax
colorization with user-definable languages, keyboard recording/playback,
etc.

I found that the commercial Crisp editor from
http://www.vital.com/crisp.htm does exactly what I want.  It has the
perfect balance between power and lean-ness I am looking for.  It is
only $75 for non-commerical use until the end of August for PC's, Linux,
*BSD's.   Support is $100/year.

It is being actively developed by someone in England.  I have found a
few bugs, and they are working on them now.

The license manager sounds very strict for an editor.  For BSDI, it
locks to the BSDI host license id, not the CPU id, which pre-Pentium
III's don't have anyway.  Not sure how the lock a MS Windows PC or
Linux.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:55:16 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Crisp text editor
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> I have been using MicroEmacs for 9 years, and have been looking for a
> nice X editor.  I looked at Xemacs(too complex to configure), and some
> others, but they did not have the required features. 

Have you checked out CodeCrusader ?
(at http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jcc )

> I like a powerful
> search/replace, tags support, macro support, as-you-type syntax
> colorization with user-definable languages,

Seems to still miss python colorization :(

> keyboard recording/playback, etc.
>
> I found that the commercial Crisp editor from
> http://www.vital.com/crisp.htm does exactly what I want.  It has the
> perfect balance between power and lean-ness I am looking for.  It is
> only $75 for non-commerical use until the end of August for PC's, Linux,
> *BSD's.   Support is $100/year.
> 
> It is being actively developed by someone in England.  I have found a
> few bugs, and they are working on them now.
> 
> The license manager sounds very strict for an editor.  For BSDI, it
> locks to the BSDI host license id, not the CPU id, which pre-Pentium
> III's don't have anyway.  Not sure how the lock a MS Windows PC or
> Linux.

Does the non-commercial version also have a lock against commercial use
?

--------
Hannu

Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:37:14 +0300
Hannu Krosing <hannu@trust.ee>
Re: [HACKERS] Crisp text editor (probably OT)
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > 
> > I have been using MicroEmacs for 9 years, and have been looking for a
> > nice X editor.  I looked at Xemacs(too complex to configure), and some
> > others, but they did not have the required features. 
> 
> Have you checked out CodeCrusader ?
> (at http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~jafl/jcc )

Yes, codecrusader has no user-defined language coloring.  All hardcoded
in C++.  It seems more like a integrated development environment(IDE),
than an editor with macro support and keyboard playback.

> 
> > I like a powerful
> > search/replace, tags support, macro support, as-you-type syntax
> > colorization with user-definable languages,
> 
> Seems to still miss python colorization :(

Crisp has it.  A python mode already defined, though you can define your
own in a few minutes.  If you are trying Crisp, go to Options/Buffer,
and choose python as your colorizer.  Colorizers are defined in keyword
builder.

> 
> > keyboard recording/playback, etc.
> >
> > I found that the commercial Crisp editor from
> > http://www.vital.com/crisp.htm does exactly what I want.  It has the
> > perfect balance between power and lean-ness I am looking for.  It is
> > only $75 for non-commerical use until the end of August for PC's, Linux,
> > *BSD's.   Support is $100/year.
> > 
> > It is being actively developed by someone in England.  I have found a
> > few bugs, and they are working on them now.
> > 
> > The license manager sounds very strict for an editor.  For BSDI, it
> > locks to the BSDI host license id, not the CPU id, which pre-Pentium
> > III's don't have anyway.  Not sure how the lock a MS Windows PC or
> > Linux.
> 
> Does the non-commercial version also have a lock against commercial use
> ?

Non-commercial is cheaper.  That is the only difference. 
Commercial/noncommercial is just what you tell the sales person.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:45:06 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Crisp text editor (probably OT)
Have you seen JED ?
It's powerful editor with all (afaik) features you need.

http://space.mit.edu/~davis/jed.html

	Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83


Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:29:48 +0400 (MSD)
Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su>
Re: [HACKERS] Crisp text editor
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Does the non-commercial version also have a lock against commercial use
> > ?
> 
> Non-commercial is cheaper.  That is the only difference.
> Commercial/noncommercial is just what you tell the sales person.

Don't they have their own definition of 'non-commercial' ?

I also have a vague idea of what non-commercial means, but it gets 
really hairy for for things like a a free database with commercial 
support - one has to be really careful not to do any for-pay work 
using a non-commercial tool :)

Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:31:17 +0300
Hannu Krosing <hannu@trust.ee>
Re: [HACKERS] Crisp text editor (probably OT)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> I have been using MicroEmacs for 9 years, and have been looking for a
> nice X editor.  I looked at Xemacs(too complex to configure), and some
> others, but they did not have the required features.

I dunno about Xemacs, but regular GNU Emacs is no big deal to install;
at least it wasn't last time I did it.  (I have notes from installing
19.34 on HPUX and SunOS, if you want 'em.)  Recent versions do menus,
cut&paste, syntax-driven highlighting, etc.

If you're accustomed to an emacs-clone you probably won't be happy with
anything else.  (But I've been using various flavors of Emacs since
'81, so I may be a tad biased...)

			regards, tom lane

Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:15:35 -0400
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Crisp text editor [definitely OT]
> Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> > I have been using MicroEmacs for 9 years, and have been looking for a
> > nice X editor.  I looked at Xemacs(too complex to configure), and some
> > others, but they did not have the required features.
> 
> I dunno about Xemacs, but regular GNU Emacs is no big deal to install;
> at least it wasn't last time I did it.  (I have notes from installing
> 19.34 on HPUX and SunOS, if you want 'em.)  Recent versions do menus,
> cut&paste, syntax-driven highlighting, etc.

It was easy to compile, and install, just a pain to change anything on
it.  I just couldn't understand how to do it at all.  When I asked on
IRC, someone said change Xresources to change the background color.  It
is a pain to make color changes in Xresources to make all the colors
look good together.  It just seemed obvious things you would want to
configure in an editor were not there, like tab size.


-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:19:35 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Crisp text editor [definitely OT]
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> It just seemed obvious things you would want to
> configure in an editor were not there, like tab size.

M-x set-variable tab-width.

Actually, I use the following command to customize Emacs for working
with the Postgres sources:

; Cmd to set tab stops &etc for working with PostgreSQL code
(defun pgsql-mode ()
  "Set PostgreSQL C indenting conventions in current buffer."
  (interactive)
  (c-mode)				; necessary to make c-set-offset local!
  (setq tab-width 4)			; already buffer-local
  ; (setq comment-column 48)		; already buffer-local
  (c-set-style "bsd")
  (c-set-offset 'case-label '+)
)

This produces a pretty close approximation to the project's standard
indentation rules.  The only thing I've noticed it doesn't get right
is that it doesn't know to put the left '{' after a foreach(...) at
the same indent as the foreach line --- you have to manually
unindent the '{' one stop before you continue entering code.
I haven't got round to figuring out how to tell the syntaxer that
foreach is a loop keyword, although I'm sure it can be done.

I have two or three other such macros for customizing to the indent
habits of other projects ... buffer-local settings are nice ...

			regards, tom lane

Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:04:11 -0400
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Crisp text editor [definitely OT] 
Bruce Momjian writes:
 > It was easy to compile, and install, just a pain to change anything on
 > it.  I just couldn't understand how to do it at all.  When I asked on
 > IRC, someone said change Xresources to change the background color.  It
 > is a pain to make color changes in Xresources to make all the colors
 > look good together.  It just seemed obvious things you would want to
 > configure in an editor were not there, like tab size.

I believe the guys at #emacs mislead you somewhat on this one.
You don't have to escape to the cruel world of resources to change
colors or faces in emacs.

The proper/simplest way of configuring customizable options in (X)emacs is through 
M-x customize , and for faces (fonts used in various contexts) you use 
M-x customize-face .

To change the background color for all faces, change the background
for the face 'Default'.

This will present you with a browsable user interface to all the
tweakable knobs in your emacs system.

As a new citizen of emacs it might seem overwhelming with the
possibilities of customization and applications available, but after passing the
initial treshold of learning the basics you're almost certain to find
it a rewarding environment to work in.

Yes, I'm probably very biased on the subject, but I urge you to give
it a real try. 

/Daniel

PS. 
Looking at the screenshots from the (unfree) Crisp editor, it seems to 
offer the same file/class browsing capabilities as speedbar in emacs.
  
  http://www.umc.se/~daniel/tmp/screen2.gif

If you want example configurations or have any questions about
working in emacs just ask. 
.DS


-- 
_______________________________________________________________  /\__ 
  Daniel Lundin - UMC, UNIX Development                        \/
  http://www.umc.se/~daniel/

Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:45:17 +0200 (CEST)
Daniel Lundin <daniel@umc.se>
Re: [HACKERS] Crisp text editor [definitely OT]