OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:34:27 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Developers globe
> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:53:36 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> 
> As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.

Would a 'flat-map' be more friendly?   Just looking at it right now, and
I'm on a T1 at work, and its "stalled"...and altho I can see the red dot
around Toronto, its "Faint"...

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:49:42 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > 
> > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
> 
> Would a 'flat-map' be more friendly?   Just looking at it right now, and
> I'm on a T1 at work, and its "stalled"...and altho I can see the red dot
> around Toronto, its "Faint"...

That may be better.  I can make it larger, or can someone send me a flat
earth map to use.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:57:40 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth?  Then you can stick the
developers name around the red circle. 

-Egon

On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > 
> > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
> 
> Would a 'flat-map' be more friendly?   Just looking at it right now, and
> I'm on a T1 at work, and its "stalled"...and altho I can see the red dot
> around Toronto, its "Faint"...
> 
> Marc G. Fournier                                
> Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
> primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 
> 
> 
> 


Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:10:43 +0100 (MET)
Egon Schmid <eschmid@stuttgart.netsurf.de>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:

> Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth?  Then you can stick the
> developers name around the red circle. 

Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?

> 
> -Egon
> 
> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > 
> > > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > > 
> > > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
> > 
> > Would a 'flat-map' be more friendly?   Just looking at it right now, and
> > I'm on a T1 at work, and its "stalled"...and altho I can see the red dot
> > around Toronto, its "Faint"...
> > 
> > Marc G. Fournier                                
> > Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
> > primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:40:32 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe

On 08-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:
> 
>> Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth?  Then you can stick the
>> developers name around the red circle. 
> 
> Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?

Look at the national directory on camping-usa.  The map was drawn with
lon-lat coordinates for the US and each state and the red dots were put
in place with lon-lat coords.  (The clickable map translates the XY to
lon-lat)   I don't know how you'd put names in it, tho, without making
the image rather large.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Mon, 08 Mar 1999 14:44:51 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:
> 
> > Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth?  Then you can stick the
> > developers name around the red circle. 
> 
> Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?

Yes, I can do that with xearth.  Very easy.  But xearth produces a very
large image, not really proper for a browser, unless we forget the
rotation, and just grab western and eastern hemisphere images and put
the names on there.

With names, that is going to be a large image.  Do we want that?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:45:37 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
I have seen xearth on my Debian system with the most Debian maintainers
spread around the globe. I think there is a flag for project so no htere
is no need to put western and eastern hemispheres together. xearth is
trimmed to run in a X Windows background.

-Egon

On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:
> > 
> > > Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth?  Then you can stick the
> > > developers name around the red circle. 
> > 
> > Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?
> 
> Yes, I can do that with xearth.  Very easy.  But xearth produces a very
> large image, not really proper for a browser, unless we forget the
> rotation, and just grab western and eastern hemisphere images and put
> the names on there.
> 
> With names, that is going to be a large image.  Do we want that?
> 
> -- 
>   Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
>   maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
>   +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
>   +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> 


Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:57:28 +0100 (MET)
Egon Schmid <eschmid@stuttgart.netsurf.de>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe

You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
country or whatnot...

 On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> 
> On 08-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> > On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Egon Schmid wrote:
> > 
> >> Wht not collect the lon and lat for xearth?  Then you can stick the
> >> developers name around the red circle. 
> > 
> > Want to build up a sample of what you are proposing and let us see it?
> 
> Look at the national directory on camping-usa.  The map was drawn with
> lon-lat coordinates for the US and each state and the red dots were put
> in place with lon-lat coords.  (The clickable map translates the XY to
> lon-lat)   I don't know how you'd put names in it, tho, without making
> the image rather large.
> 
> Vince.
> -- 
> ==========================================================================
> Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
>        # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
>         Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
>        Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
> ==========================================================================
> 
> 

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:06:10 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe

On 08-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> 
> You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> country or whatnot...

'cept xearth isn't using lon/lat - unless it's changed from the v1.0 source
I have here (from the 2.2.8 ports collection CD).

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Mon, 08 Mar 1999 15:16:38 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
Thus spake Bruce Momjian
> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> 
> As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.

Hmmm.  I tried to go there but for some reason I keep getting bounced
to Saskatchewan which I assume doesn't have the updates yet.  Any idea
why I don't go to the main site?  After all, I'm on the same LAN basically.
It seems silly to go out to the net to a mirror.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net>   |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 424 2871     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:08:39 -0500 (EST)
"D'Arcy" "J.M." Cain <darcy@druid.net>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
"D'Arcy" "J.M." Cain <darcy@druid.net> writes:
> Hmmm.  I tried to go there but for some reason I keep getting bounced
> to Saskatchewan which I assume doesn't have the updates yet.  Any idea
> why I don't go to the main site?  After all, I'm on the same LAN basically.
> It seems silly to go out to the net to a mirror.

I just figured this out yesterday:

http://www.postgresql.org/              ---> redirection 'bot
http://www.postgresql.org/index.html    ---> master site

The 'bot is good for load sharing, but when you want to see the latest
updates it's a real pain.  I'm glad it's possible to bypass it.

			regards, tom lane

Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:43:43 -0500
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe 
> Thus spake Bruce Momjian
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > 
> > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
> 
> Hmmm.  I tried to go there but for some reason I keep getting bounced
> to Saskatchewan which I assume doesn't have the updates yet.  Any idea
> why I don't go to the main site?  After all, I'm on the same LAN basically.
> It seems silly to go out to the net to a mirror.

Yes.  If you do:

	http://www.postgresql.org/index.html

you are forced to the main site.  Marc told me this a while ago.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:10:16 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:

> Thus spake Bruce Momjian
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > 
> > As an example, I have added Toronto to the globe, which I believe is the
> > location of our server, and where D'Arcy lives.
> 
> Hmmm.  I tried to go there but for some reason I keep getting bounced
> to Saskatchewan which I assume doesn't have the updates yet.  Any idea
> why I don't go to the main site?  After all, I'm on the same LAN basically.
> It seems silly to go out to the net to a mirror.

Just the way the redirect software is setup...you can cheat it though:

	http://www.postgresql.org/index.html

:)

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:25:54 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

OK, larger dots.  I added a dot for myself and Tom Lane.  Europe will be
all red once I am done.  Things are very imprecise at that size.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:37:08 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

OK, now the dot is huge.  Marc, Tom Lane, and I fit in the same dot. 
Looks good, though.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:21:25 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> 
> OK, now the dot is huge.  Marc, Tom Lane, and I fit in the same dot. 
> Looks good, though.
> 

No, Toronto/D'Arch, Tom Lane, and I are in the same dot.  Marc gets his
on more east than us.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:23:58 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

OK, I have big dots for almost everyone.  How does it look.  The moving
of the dots is because I was sloppy, but I just wanted to do it quick to
see how it looks.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:48:37 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> country or whatnot...

    Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
    Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
    pointer is over the dots.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:23:44 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
> > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > country or whatnot...
> 
>     Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
>     Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
>     pointer is over the dots.

As long as we're thinking JScript, why not pop up the name on the 
mouseover?  Maybe a little flag popping up on the map.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Tue, 9 Mar 1999 06:58:37 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
> > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > country or whatnot...
> 
>     Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
>     Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
>     pointer is over the dots.

Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:32:58 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > 
> > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > country or whatnot...
> > 
> >     Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
> >     Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
> >     pointer is over the dots.
> 
> As long as we're thinking JScript, why not pop up the name on the 
> mouseover?  Maybe a little flag popping up on the map.

Hrmmmm...isn't that what he said? *grin*

How abuot this one...a world map that when you go over a country, it pops
up an expanded view of that country so that the dots aren't so
concentrated? :)

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:34:13 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > 
> > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > 
> > > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > > country or whatnot...
> > > 
> > >     Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
> > >     Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
> > >     pointer is over the dots.
> > 
> > As long as we're thinking JScript, why not pop up the name on the 
> > mouseover?  Maybe a little flag popping up on the map.
> 
> Hrmmmm...isn't that what he said? *grin*

Nope.  Status line is at the bottom of the browser.  I meant for the name
to pop up (or a flag to pop up) in the actual image.

> 
> How abuot this one...a world map that when you go over a country, it pops
> up an expanded view of that country so that the dots aren't so
> concentrated? :)

Hmmmmm.  *wheels turning*

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:50:51 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > 
> > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > country or whatnot...
> > 
> >     Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
> >     Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
> >     pointer is over the dots.
> 
> Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)

yep.  Anyone know of a tool in unix that splits up a gif into many
smaller squares (as opposed to manually cropping)?

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:11:46 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > 
> > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > country or whatnot...
> > 
> >     Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
> >     Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
> >     pointer is over the dots.
> 
> Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)

No.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:38:45 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.

New map.  Gimp Nova dots.  You like?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:25:21 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> > Hrmmmm...isn't that what he said? *grin*
> 
> Nope.  Status line is at the bottom of the browser.  I meant for the name
> to pop up (or a flag to pop up) in the actual image.

    Right - and popping up in the image is better :-)


Jan

-- 

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #


Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:07:46 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> 
> On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > 
> > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > 
> > > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > > country or whatnot...
> > > 
> > >     Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
> > >     Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
> > >     pointer is over the dots.
> > 
> > Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)
> 
> yep.  Anyone know of a tool in unix that splits up a gif into many
> smaller squares (as opposed to manually cropping)?

    A little script with pbm tools should do.


Jan

-- 

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #


Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:08:54 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
>
> > On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > >
> > > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > > country or whatnot...
> > >
> > >     Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
> > >     Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
> > >     pointer is over the dots.
> >
> > Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)
>
> No.

    Dunno  if  that's possible (popping something up in an image)
    with Javascript. Maybe that must be done  in  an  applet.  Or
    what  Venice suggested, splitting up the image into hundred's
    of peaces, putting the names into the ALT attributes and  let
    the  browser do it. For sake not every browser show's the ALT
    text when you hold the pointer over an image.

    Maybe I should do some tests.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:13:17 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> 
> New map.  Gimp Nova dots.  You like?
> 

Looks great!!

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Wed, 10 Mar 1999 06:52:06 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe

Definitely doable...see 'http://www.nova-scotia.org', a site we played
with that used javascript...

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> > > On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > >
> > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You don't really need nams associated iwth the dots, just make the dots
> > > > > reasonably accurate...put a long/lat beside each name in the list, and
> > > > > country or whatnot...
> > > >
> > > >     Alternatively  you  might  put  a  map behind it and use some
> > > >     Jscript to write the names into  the  status  line  when  the
> > > >     pointer is over the dots.
> > >
> > > Oh, I like that one...anyone know Javascript? :)
> >
> > No.
> 
>     Dunno  if  that's possible (popping something up in an image)
>     with Javascript. Maybe that must be done  in  an  applet.  Or
>     what  Venice suggested, splitting up the image into hundred's
>     of peaces, putting the names into the ALT attributes and  let
>     the  browser do it. For sake not every browser show's the ALT
>     text when you hold the pointer over an image.
> 
>     Maybe I should do some tests.
> 
> 
> Jan
> 
> --
> 
> #======================================================================#
> # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
> # Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
> #======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #
> 
> 

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:23:06 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > 
> > New map.  Gimp Nova dots.  You like?
> > 
> 
> Looks great!!

Hate to be the wet blanket...throw another one of those 'Nova dots' onto
Europe, and Europe will sink :(  It sort of reminds me of those old movies
dealing with Nuclear WAr..."New Brunswick, Canada...totally wiped' out,
Maine, USA...like it never existed, England...WWI and WWII failed, where
PostgreSQL succeseds" *grin*

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:26:07 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

> 
> Definitely doable...see 'http://www.nova-scotia.org', a site we played
> with that used javascript...

And I just found a nifty little js library for doing popups.  Should have
a simple demo available shortly of index.html's frames.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:51:32 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > 
> > > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > > 
> > > New map.  Gimp Nova dots.  You like?
> > > 
> > 
> > Looks great!!
> 
> Hate to be the wet blanket...throw another one of those 'Nova dots' onto
> Europe, and Europe will sink :(  It sort of reminds me of those old movies
> dealing with Nuclear WAr..."New Brunswick, Canada...totally wiped' out,
> Maine, USA...like it never existed, England...WWI and WWII failed, where
> PostgreSQL succeseds" *grin*

OK, smaller stars, and fewer.  Should I continue in this direction, or
try something else?


-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:02:16 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
Thus spake Bruce Momjian
> > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> 
> New map.  Gimp Nova dots.  You like?

Nice.  Now we just need to fill it in.  I know you have mine but just to
confirm:

  43 27 02 N / 79 20 44 W

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net>   |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 424 2871     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:04:40 -0500 (EST)
"D'Arcy" "J.M." Cain <darcy@druid.net>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > > > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > > > 
> > > > New map.  Gimp Nova dots.  You like?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Looks great!!
> > 
> > Hate to be the wet blanket...throw another one of those 'Nova dots' onto
> > Europe, and Europe will sink :(  It sort of reminds me of those old movies
> > dealing with Nuclear WAr..."New Brunswick, Canada...totally wiped' out,
> > Maine, USA...like it never existed, England...WWI and WWII failed, where
> > PostgreSQL succeseds" *grin*
> 
> OK, smaller stars, and fewer.  Should I continue in this direction, or
> try something else?

I'd say continue, but go with "points" vs "dabs"...enough ppl get added to
that globe, there will be so much overlap of the 'dabs' that the country
borders will be indistinguishable :)

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:41:35 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> > OK, smaller stars, and fewer.  Should I continue in this direction, or
> > try something else?
> 
> I'd say continue, but go with "points" vs "dabs"...enough ppl get added to
> that globe, there will be so much overlap of the 'dabs' that the country
> borders will be indistinguishable :)
> 

Amazing how much better the blurred dots look compared to the regular
dots.  Points are too small to see.  If we get more people, I will
shrink the dots.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:05:43 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Definitely doable...see 'http://www.nova-scotia.org', a site we played
> > with that used javascript...
> 
> And I just found a nifty little js library for doing popups.  Should have
> a simple demo available shortly of index.html's frames.

Ok try this.  I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next.  I
was just proving it out.

http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html

Mouseover on the left frame.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:35:17 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Definitely doable...see 'http://www.nova-scotia.org', a site we played
> > > with that used javascript...
> > 
> > And I just found a nifty little js library for doing popups.  Should have
> > a simple demo available shortly of index.html's frames.
> 
> Ok try this.  I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next.  I
> was just proving it out.
> 
> http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
> 
> Mouseover on the left frame.

Totally cool.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:59:26 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
>
> > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > >
> > > > > OK, I have installed a rotating globe on the developers page.  After I
> > > > > get all the developer locations, I will add red dots to the globe.
> > > >
> > > > New map.  Gimp Nova dots.  You like?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Looks great!!
> >
> > Hate to be the wet blanket...throw another one of those 'Nova dots' onto
> > Europe, and Europe will sink :(  It sort of reminds me of those old movies
> > dealing with Nuclear WAr..."New Brunswick, Canada...totally wiped' out,
> > Maine, USA...like it never existed, England...WWI and WWII failed, where
> > PostgreSQL succeseds" *grin*
>
> OK, smaller stars, and fewer.  Should I continue in this direction, or
> try something else?

    Actually  I'm  hacking  a  little  around.  Up  to  now  I've
    extracted the coords of the  world  map  out  of  xearth  and
    produced  a  600x250  GIF  as  a  flat map. Having only a few
    colors it's about 6K small.

    Now I'm looking for spec's on animated GIF's.  If  I  finally
    understand  how  they  are  created,  I  could build a little
    Tcl/Tk application where you can enter location (long/lat  or
    lookup  by  city) and the text to popup and Tk will create an
    animated GIF where the locations  are  small  blinking  dot's
    plus the required image map etc.

    Just give me another day for an example.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:45:46 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> > Ok try this.  I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next.  I
> > was just proving it out.
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
> >
> > Mouseover on the left frame.
>
> Totally cool.

    What about this one:

        http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html

    I've used xearth's coords for the map (a little Tcl/Tk script
    did it) and GIFmerge to combine two ones.  Resulting  gif  is
    6275 bytes!

    Then  I've  added  overlib (thanks Venice). Only Bruce and me
    are on the map. Finally (if we choose  it)  I'll  create  the
    mentioned  Tk  application  to  manage  all the dot's and the
    underlying map.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:30:55 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> > > Ok try this.  I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next.  I
> > > was just proving it out.
> > >
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
> > >
> > > Mouseover on the left frame.
> >
> > Totally cool.
> 
>     What about this one:
> 
>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
> 
>     I've used xearth's coords for the map (a little Tcl/Tk script
>     did it) and GIFmerge to combine two ones.  Resulting  gif  is
>     6275 bytes!
> 
>     Then  I've  added  overlib (thanks Venice). Only Bruce and me
>     are on the map. Finally (if we choose  it)  I'll  create  the
>     mentioned  Tk  application  to  manage  all the dot's and the
>     underlying map.

I like the dots.  Perhaps larger.

Can you do longitute/latitude with that map.  Is it linear in both
directions.  Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
and Northern Canada are huge.  Don't tell me you compensated for it in
the tcl code.

Can you use the more attractive map I am using.  Your blinking dots and
highlighted names are certainly better than my map.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:47:27 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe

On 10-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>     What about this one:
> 
>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
> 
>     I've used xearth's coords for the map (a little Tcl/Tk script
>     did it) and GIFmerge to combine two ones.  Resulting  gif  is
>     6275 bytes!
> 
>     Then  I've  added  overlib (thanks Venice). Only Bruce and me
>     are on the map. Finally (if we choose  it)  I'll  create  the
>     mentioned  Tk  application  to  manage  all the dot's and the
>     underlying map.

Looks like you discovered overlib would do it's popups on top of an
image while I was trying to figure out what happened to Netscape's
no longer showing the XY coords of an imagemap!  Looks/works great,
dots could be just a touch bigger, tho.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:59:55 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> >
> >     What about this one:
> >
> >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
> >
>
> I like the dots.  Perhaps larger.

    Larger dots, larger image. It's 10595 bytes now.

>
> Can you do longitute/latitude with that map.  Is it linear in both
> directions.  Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> and Northern Canada are huge.  Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> the tcl code.

    The  map was draw using the coordinates from xearth. So it is
    long/lat based and thus I can.

    It isn't linear in the x-direction. It uses  a  sine-function
    to shrink the X down the farer it's away from 0 meridian.

    Currently it isn't using the latitude to give it an ellipsian
    touch.  But I could modify the algorithm that  converts  from
    xearth's x,y,z coordinates to the map's x,y.

>
> Can you use the more attractive map I am using.  Your blinking dots and
> highlighted names are certainly better than my map.

    That  would  loose the long/lat capability (except it already
    has it).  And it would blow up the image size again,  because
    for  the animation at least two different gifs must be in it.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:11:24 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> > directions.  Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> > and Northern Canada are huge.  Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> > the tcl code.
>

    Finally  I've  increased  the  shrink  factor a little. Looks
    better IMHO.

    Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
    more  coordinate  data.  Maybe  something  like a transparent
    looking "Postgres" text over it  has  more  effect  than  any
    color.  I'll  check,  but  it's  enough  for  today.  I'm off
    catching some zzzzzzzz's.

    BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:48:04 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> > > directions.  Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> > > and Northern Canada are huge.  Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> > > the tcl code.
> >
> 
>     Finally  I've  increased  the  shrink  factor a little. Looks
>     better IMHO.
> 
>     Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
>     more  coordinate  data.  Maybe  something  like a transparent
>     looking "Postgres" text over it  has  more  effect  than  any
>     color.  I'll  check,  but  it's  enough  for  today.  I'm off
>     catching some zzzzzzzz's.
> 
>     BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?

I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:51:10 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
>
> > > > directions.  Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> > > > and Northern Canada are huge.  Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> > > > the tcl code.
> > >
> >
> >     Finally  I've  increased  the  shrink  factor a little. Looks
> >     better IMHO.
> >
> >     Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
> >     more  coordinate  data.  Maybe  something  like a transparent
> >     looking "Postgres" text over it  has  more  effect  than  any
> >     color.  I'll  check,  but  it's  enough  for  today.  I'm off
> >     catching some zzzzzzzz's.
> >
> >     BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?
>
> I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.

    Uh?

    There's  simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
    up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something  wrong  with
    the  href  because  the  <>  in  it  aren't escaped. But that
    shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.

    What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?


Puzzled, Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:57:59 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> > I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.
> 
>     Uh?
> 
>     There's  simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
>     up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something  wrong  with
>     the  href  because  the  <>  in  it  aren't escaped. But that
>     shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.
> 
>     What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?

That explains it.  Mailto crashes unless the mail window has already
been opened earlier.  Good idea.


-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:08:05 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe

On 10-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>> > directions.  Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
>> > and Northern Canada are huge.  Don't tell me you compensated for it in
>> > the tcl code.
>>
> 
>     Finally  I've  increased  the  shrink  factor a little. Looks
>     better IMHO.
> 
>     Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
>     more  coordinate  data.  Maybe  something  like a transparent
>     looking "Postgres" text over it  has  more  effect  than  any
>     color.  I'll  check,  but  it's  enough  for  today.  I'm off
>     catching some zzzzzzzz's.
> 
>     BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?

Yeah, for some reason mailto: crashes my browser (netscape 4.5).  I think
it's got something to do with nothing being defined for any servers or
something like that.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
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       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================



Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:23:38 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
It is a (un)known problem with NS 4.5. Marc had this pleasure a couple of
days before also. 

BTW: xearth rotates by itself in real time and there are a lot of flags to
influence the behaviour and appearance.

-Egon 

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> Yeah, for some reason mailto: crashes my browser (netscape 4.5).  I think
> it's got something to do with nothing being defined for any servers or
> something like that.
> 
> Vince.


Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:38:59 +0100 (MET)
Egon Schmid <eschmid@stuttgart.netsurf.de>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe

On 10-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> > I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.
>> 
>>     Uh?
>> 
>>     There's  simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
>>     up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something  wrong  with
>>     the  href  because  the  <>  in  it  aren't escaped. But that
>>     shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.
>> 
>>     What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?
> 
> That explains it.  Mailto crashes unless the mail window has already
> been opened earlier.  Good idea.

I read on one of the FreeBSD lists today that 4.51 (linux version) still
crashes, so it's not fixed yet.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
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       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
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Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:57:26 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> 
> On 10-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >> > I click on the point, and my Netscape 4.5 crashes.
> >> 
> >>     Uh?
> >> 
> >>     There's  simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
> >>     up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something  wrong  with
> >>     the  href  because  the  <>  in  it  aren't escaped. But that
> >>     shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.
> >> 
> >>     What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?
> > 
> > That explains it.  Mailto crashes unless the mail window has already
> > been opened earlier.  Good idea.
> 
> I read on one of the FreeBSD lists today that 4.51 (linux version) still
> crashes, so it's not fixed yet.

Didn't know 4.51 was out yet.  Downloading now.  Thanks.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:11:38 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:

> Can you do longitute/latitude with that map.  Is it linear in both
> directions.  Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> and Northern Canada are huge.  Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> the tcl code.

I also have a map program I wrote up for an IRC network.

See http://www.sorcery.net/maps/ for that implementation.  It could
use a database backend easily, but right now it uses a combination of
xearth, fly (a gif editing scripting language) and Perl script to
write the fly script.

--Michael

10 Mar 1999 17:11:51 -0800
Michael Graff <explorer@flame.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> > > Ok try this.  I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next.  I
> > > was just proving it out.
> > >
> > > http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
> > >
> > > Mouseover on the left frame.
> >
> > Totally cool.
> 
>     What about this one:
> 
>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html

This is *totally* cool...

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:28:28 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> > > directions.  Usually such linear maps look terrible because Greenland
> > > and Northern Canada are huge.  Don't tell me you compensated for it in
> > > the tcl code.
> >
> 
>     Finally  I've  increased  the  shrink  factor a little. Looks
>     better IMHO.
> 
>     Don't know how to put more color on it without adding tons of
>     more  coordinate  data.  Maybe  something  like a transparent
>     looking "Postgres" text over it  has  more  effect  than  any
>     color.  I'll  check,  but  it's  enough  for  today.  I'm off
>     catching some zzzzzzzz's.
> 
>     BTW: Did you notice that the point's are clickable?

Erk...just tried that and it crashed my netscape :)

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:30:58 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

>     Uh?
> 
>     There's  simply a mailto: href on them. My Netscape 4.05 pops
>     up the Mail window then. Maybe there's something  wrong  with
>     the  href  because  the  <>  in  it  aren't escaped. But that
>     shouldn't cause Netscape to crash.
> 
>     What happens if you use a normal mailto: link?

Crashes also...a bug in 4.5...

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:31:26 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
> >
> >     What about this one:
> >
> >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
> 
> This is *totally* cool...

I like this too.

Vadim

Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:47:00 +0700
Vadim Mikheev <vadim@krs.ru>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> > > > Ok try this.  I haven't tried it on a graphic yet, that'll be next.  I
> > > > was just proving it out.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.postgresql.org/~vev/index.html
> > > >
> > > > Mouseover on the left frame.
> > >
> > > Totally cool.
> >
> >     What about this one:
> >
> >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/test.html
>
> This is *totally* cool...

    And now DEEP FROZEN :-)

        http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
        -------------------------------------------

    Well,  the  image  is  about  85K  now (look at it before you
    reply). But I think it's one that is worth the bandwidth -  a
    MUST SEE.

    Bruce: is that ATTRACTIVE enough for you?


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:31:28 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
Jan Wieck wrote:
>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html

It's pretty neet.  I'd remove the white flush by Flordia,
perhaps moving it to a corner and introducing faint
shadows on the lettering.

:) Clark

Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:36:06 +0000
Clark Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> > This is *totally* cool...
> 
>     And now DEEP FROZEN :-)
> 
>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
>         -------------------------------------------
> 
>     Well,  the  image  is  about  85K  now (look at it before you
>     reply). But I think it's one that is worth the bandwidth -  a
>     MUST SEE.
> 
>     Bruce: is that ATTRACTIVE enough for you?

Yes, certainly deep frozen.  Winner.

Comments:

	Use as many colors as you can.  No problem with many colors.

	Much better than mine.

	Can you darken the PostgreSQL a little bit more, so the globe
stands out a little more?


-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:42:53 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
>
> Jan Wieck wrote:
> >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
>
> It's pretty neet.  I'd remove the white flush by Flordia,
> perhaps moving it to a corner and introducing faint
> shadows on the lettering.
>
> :) Clark
>

    I  can't.  I  haven't  created the background image and don't
    know who did or how.

    OTOH it is

    1.  At Florida - a sunny state.

    2.  Near the location of hub.org, where OUR sun is shining.

    So it is IMHO exactly where is should be.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Thu, 11 Mar 1999 18:46:18 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> >
> > Jan Wieck wrote:
> > >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >
> > It's pretty neet.  I'd remove the white flush by Flordia,
> > perhaps moving it to a corner and introducing faint
> > shadows on the lettering.
> >
> > :) Clark
> >
> 
>     I  can't.  I  haven't  created the background image and don't
>     know who did or how.
> 
>     OTOH it is
> 
>     1.  At Florida - a sunny state.
> 
>     2.  Near the location of hub.org, where OUR sun is shining.
> 
>     So it is IMHO exactly where is should be.

Actually, it is closest to me.  Enough said.  :-)

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:48:55 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> > Jan Wieck wrote:
> > >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >
> > It's pretty neet.  I'd remove the white flush by Flordia,
> > perhaps moving it to a corner and introducing faint
> > shadows on the lettering.
> >
> > :) Clark
> >
> 
>     I  can't.  I  haven't  created the background image and don't
>     know who did or how.
> 
>     OTOH it is
> 
>     1.  At Florida - a sunny state.
> 
>     2.  Near the location of hub.org, where OUR sun is shining.
> 
>     So it is IMHO exactly where is should be.

The sun?  Huh.  I thought it was a hurricane hitting the east coast.  :)

Looks good, Jan!

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================




Thu, 11 Mar 1999 12:58:25 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
>
> > > This is *totally* cool...
> >
> >     And now DEEP FROZEN :-)
> >
> >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >         -------------------------------------------
> >
> >     Well,  the  image  is  about  85K  now (look at it before you
> >     reply). But I think it's one that is worth the bandwidth -  a
> >     MUST SEE.
> >
> >     Bruce: is that ATTRACTIVE enough for you?
>
> Yes, certainly deep frozen.  Winner.
>
> Comments:
>
>    Use as many colors as you can.  No problem with many colors.

    Tried  to use 250 colors, but that blows the image up to 150K
    and more important, causes the image sometimes to flicker  on
    my 200MHz Pentium notebook. So back to 60 colors.

>
>    Much better than mine.

    Tnx.

>
>    Can you darken the PostgreSQL a little bit more, so the globe
> stands out a little more?

    Done  -  the  other way round. Darken the map and lighten the
    PostgreSQL.  You're right, look's better.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:07:53 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
> 
>     And now DEEP FROZEN :-)
> 
>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
>         -------------------------------------------

Yes! Cool!!!

Vadim

Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:07:03 +0700
Vadim Mikheev <vadim@krs.ru>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
>
> Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> >
> >     And now DEEP FROZEN :-)
> >
> >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >         -------------------------------------------
>
> Yes! Cool!!!
>
> Vadim
>

    Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
    they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.

    The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
    done  with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
    and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.

    For sake I haven't found out how to  determine  the  absolute
    position  of  an  image  unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
    static there. Does anyone know how to do that?


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:53:32 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe

On 12-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>>
>     Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
>     they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.
> 
>     The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
>     done  with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
>     and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.
> 
>     For sake I haven't found out how to  determine  the  absolute
>     position  of  an  image  unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
>     static there. Does anyone know how to do that?

Now that's slick!

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================



Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:04:22 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
> >     For sake I haven't found out how to  determine  the  absolute
> >     position  of  an  image  unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
> >     static there. Does anyone know how to do that?
> 
> Now that's slick!
> 

Yes.  Looks like stars.  Also, I have added an office knick-knacks link
to my personal web page.  See the signature.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:34:34 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers globe
>
>
> On 12-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
> >>
> >     Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
> >     they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.
> >
> >     The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
> >     done  with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
> >     and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.
> >
> >     For sake I haven't found out how to  determine  the  absolute
> >     position  of  an  image  unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
> >     static there. Does anyone know how to do that?
>
> Now that's slick!

    I've  installed  that one with different coloured flashes now
    on the main site  developers  page.  The  map  image  is  now
    700x270  in  jpeg  and  with  a  good quality (95% - in lower
    quality the red dots get too diffuse).

    I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.

    Does anyone have problems with it?


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:44:34 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Developers Globe (FINAL)
>     I've  installed  that one with different coloured flashes now
>     on the main site  developers  page.  The  map  image  is  now
>     700x270  in  jpeg  and  with  a  good quality (95% - in lower
>     quality the red dots get too diffuse).
> 
>     I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> 
>     Does anyone have problems with it?

Great.  Now I can see where everyone is.

I don't think I like the fact the image is in its own frame.  Makes the
list of developers very small.  Was this necessary to get it working
properly?  Also, what does it look like _without_ the PostgreSQL image
merged into it.  Is it too plain?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:51:10 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
> >     I've  installed  that one with different coloured flashes now
> >     on the main site  developers  page.  The  map  image  is  now
> >     700x270  in  jpeg  and  with  a  good quality (95% - in lower
> >     quality the red dots get too diffuse).
> >
> >     I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> >
> >     Does anyone have problems with it?
>
> Great.  Now I can see where everyone is.
>
> I don't think I like the fact the image is in its own frame.  Makes the
> list of developers very small.  Was this necessary to get it working
> properly?  Also, what does it look like _without_ the PostgreSQL image
> merged into it.  Is it too plain?

    I  didn't  like  it  too,  but  in  it was necessary. Without
    dropping  it   into   it's   own   frame   I   couldn't   set
    SCROLLING="NO".  In  MS  InternetExplorer  then  a  scrollbar
    appears/disappears very nervous with the size of  the  slider
    trying  to  follow  the  rightmost  existing  flash  (totally
    irritating).

    Without  the  PostgreSQL  image  it  is  really  very   plain
    (spartanic).


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:58:10 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)

On 15-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>> >>
>> >     Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
>> >     they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.
>> >
>> >     The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
>> >     done  with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
>> >     and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.
>> >
>> >     For sake I haven't found out how to  determine  the  absolute
>> >     position  of  an  image  unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
>> >     static there. Does anyone know how to do that?
>>
>> Now that's slick!
> 
>     I've  installed  that one with different coloured flashes now
>     on the main site  developers  page.  The  map  image  is  now
>     700x270  in  jpeg  and  with  a  good quality (95% - in lower
>     quality the red dots get too diffuse).
> 
>     I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> 
>     Does anyone have problems with it?

Looks and works great here.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:07:26 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
RE: [HACKERS] Developers Globe (FINAL)
>     I  didn't  like  it  too,  but  in  it was necessary. Without
>     dropping  it   into   it's   own   frame   I   couldn't   set
>     SCROLLING="NO".  In  MS  InternetExplorer  then  a  scrollbar
>     appears/disappears very nervous with the size of  the  slider
>     trying  to  follow  the  rightmost  existing  flash  (totally
>     irritating).
> 
>     Without  the  PostgreSQL  image  it  is  really  very   plain
>     (spartanic).
> 

Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs. 
Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:31:51 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> >     I  didn't  like  it  too,  but  in  it was necessary. Without
> >     dropping  it   into   it's   own   frame   I   couldn't   set
> >     SCROLLING="NO".  In  MS  InternetExplorer  then  a  scrollbar
> >     appears/disappears very nervous with the size of  the  slider
> >     trying  to  follow  the  rightmost  existing  flash  (totally
> >     irritating).
> > 
> >     Without  the  PostgreSQL  image  it  is  really  very   plain
> >     (spartanic).
> > 
> 
> Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs. 
> Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?
> 

Sorry for messing it up.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:47:41 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)

On 15-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>     I  didn't  like  it  too,  but  in  it was necessary. Without
>>     dropping  it   into   it's   own   frame   I   couldn't   set
>>     SCROLLING="NO".  In  MS  InternetExplorer  then  a  scrollbar
>>     appears/disappears very nervous with the size of  the  slider
>>     trying  to  follow  the  rightmost  existing  flash  (totally
>>     irritating).
>> 
>>     Without  the  PostgreSQL  image  it  is  really  very   plain
>>     (spartanic).
>> 
> 
> Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs. 
> Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?

Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir?   If not I still have
it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:51:53 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> 
> On 15-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >>     I  didn't  like  it  too,  but  in  it was necessary. Without
> >>     dropping  it   into   it's   own   frame   I   couldn't   set
> >>     SCROLLING="NO".  In  MS  InternetExplorer  then  a  scrollbar
> >>     appears/disappears very nervous with the size of  the  slider
> >>     trying  to  follow  the  rightmost  existing  flash  (totally
> >>     irritating).
> >> 
> >>     Without  the  PostgreSQL  image  it  is  really  very   plain
> >>     (spartanic).
> >> 
> > 
> > Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs. 
> > Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?
> 
> Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir?   If not I still have
> it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.

Don't think so.  It is framed for the other date in the page.  Can you
send it over.  I need devel-contrib.html

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:54:23 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)

On 15-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> 
>> On 15-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> >>     I  didn't  like  it  too,  but  in  it was necessary. Without
>> >>     dropping  it   into   it's   own   frame   I   couldn't   set
>> >>     SCROLLING="NO".  In  MS  InternetExplorer  then  a  scrollbar
>> >>     appears/disappears very nervous with the size of  the  slider
>> >>     trying  to  follow  the  rightmost  existing  flash  (totally
>> >>     irritating).
>> >> 
>> >>     Without  the  PostgreSQL  image  it  is  really  very   plain
>> >>     (spartanic).
>> >> 
>> > 
>> > Jan, I accidentally deleted the page when updating the page via cvs. 
>> > Can you put your copy on there again, or tell me how to get it?
>> 
>> Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir?   If not I still have
>> it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.
> 
> Don't think so.  It is framed for the other date in the page.  Can you
> send it over.  I need devel-contrib.html

Look in my $HOME dir to make sure it's what you're looking for.  If not I
have the rest as well.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:57:35 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> > 
> > Don't think so.  It is framed for the other date in the page.  Can you
> > send it over.  I need devel-contrib.html
> 
> Look in my $HOME dir to make sure it's what you're looking for.  If not I
> have the rest as well.
> 

No.  It should have frames for the new globe.  This is for the left
margin. 

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:00:47 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> > Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir?   If not I still have
> > it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.
> 
> Don't think so.  It is framed for the other date in the page.  Can you
> send it over.  I need devel-contrib.html

Vince got me the right file.  Thanks.  No need for you to get it Jan.

I will check it into cvs.  We have a 'www' branch for the web site.


-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:14:45 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> > > Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir?   If not I still have
> > > it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.
> > 
> > Don't think so.  It is framed for the other date in the page.  Can you
> > send it over.  I need devel-contrib.html
> 
> Vince got me the right file.  Thanks.  No need for you to get it Jan.
> 
> I will check it into cvs.  We have a 'www' branch for the web site.

I have checked in Jan's html, but not the subdirectories, which are
probably generated by Jan's program.   Probably will not change very
often, so no need to cvs it.  Do people agree?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:21:10 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
>     I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> 
>     Does anyone have problems with it?

I just got:

JavaScript Error: http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html, line 31:
ie4 is not defined.

using the FreeBSD Netscape 4.05 binary.

Cheers,

Patrick

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:51:15 +0000 (GMT)
"Patrick Welche" <prlw1@newn.cam.ac.uk>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers Globe (FINAL)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) writes:
>     I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
>     Does anyone have problems with it?

It fails rather spectacularly for me --- I'm watching a Netscape image
placeholder icon bounce around the empty frame as if it were a ping-pong
ball.  Kinda fun to watch actually, but I'm sure it's not the intended
effect.  It's sucking up an unreasonable percentage of my CPU, too.

This is Netscape 4.08 for HPUX, auto image load off, and I currently
have Javascript but not Java enabled.  With Javascript off (my more
usual browsing setup, but I chanced to leave it on today) the page
behaves a lot more reasonably; I get one placeholder that I can click on
if I feel like looking at the graphic.

I realize that you spent a good deal of time on that "flashing dot"
effect, but I'd counsel you to forget it.  It doesn't add a darn thing
to the useful content of the page --- the red dots are perfectly visible
without flashing.  (You could make them a tiny bit bigger and brighter,
if you find them marginal.)  What it *will* do is create all sorts of
portability headaches, of which you've seen only the beginning; you
have not tried to get it to work across multiple browser versions or
multiple platforms, to say nothing of browsers other than the Big Two.
"I hacked it till it worked on the two browsers I use" is just about the
definition of bad Web design in my book.  You'd be embarrassed to ship
C code that unportable --- why are you willing to accept it in HTML?

			regards, tom lane

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:15:49 -0500
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers Globe (FINAL) 
On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> >
> > On 12-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
> > >>
> > >     Just put in another version. This time, all dot's are red but
> > >     they flash frequently when displayed in a Netscape.
> > >
> > >     The advantage is that the image is static and the flashes are
> > >     done  with JavaScript. So the image could get highest quality
> > >     and become bigger and finally placed as jpeg.
> > >
> > >     For sake I haven't found out how to  determine  the  absolute
> > >     position  of  an  image  unter MS IE4 yet. So they are simply
> > >     static there. Does anyone know how to do that?
> >
> > Now that's slick!
> 
>     I've  installed  that one with different coloured flashes now
>     on the main site  developers  page.  The  map  image  is  now
>     700x270  in  jpeg  and  with  a  good quality (95% - in lower
>     quality the red dots get too diffuse).
> 
>     I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> 
>     Does anyone have problems with it?

My only comment/problem...the underlying logo, IMHO, detracts from the
dots ... some of them you really have to pick at to see, with the logo
overshadowing it...

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:01:36 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> > 
> >     I've  installed  that one with different coloured flashes now
> >     on the main site  developers  page.  The  map  image  is  now
> >     700x270  in  jpeg  and  with  a  good quality (95% - in lower
> >     quality the red dots get too diffuse).
> > 
> >     I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> > 
> >     Does anyone have problems with it?
> 
> My only comment/problem...the underlying logo, IMHO, detracts from the
> dots ... some of them you really have to pick at to see, with the logo
> overshadowing it...

I have to agree on this. 


-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:09:21 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
> > > > Isn't it the same as in his $HOME/public_html dir?   If not I still have
> > > > it up on my browser, I can save it off easy enuf.
> > >
> > > Don't think so.  It is framed for the other date in the page.  Can you
> > > send it over.  I need devel-contrib.html
> >
> > Vince got me the right file.  Thanks.  No need for you to get it Jan.
> >
> > I will check it into cvs.  We have a 'www' branch for the web site.
>
> I have checked in Jan's html, but not the subdirectories, which are
> probably generated by Jan's program.   Probably will not change very
> often, so no need to cvs it.  Do people agree?

    I've just committed my last changes to the www module and put
    the files onto the site. Now the globe is on the  page  again
    without a separate frame (much better).


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:47:24 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
> jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) writes:
> >     I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> >     Does anyone have problems with it?
>
> It fails rather spectacularly for me --- I'm watching a Netscape image
> placeholder icon bounce around the empty frame as if it were a ping-pong
> ball.  Kinda fun to watch actually, but I'm sure it's not the intended
> effect.  It's sucking up an unreasonable percentage of my CPU, too.

    I know that there is still a bunch of problems with it and be
    sure, I'll work on. Finally it should display a static map by
    default  and  only  if  it finds a known browser, fill in the
    flash images into empty layers and start blinking.

    What it is currently is only a point I'm starting from.

>
> This is Netscape 4.08 for HPUX, auto image load off, and I currently
> have Javascript but not Java enabled.  With Javascript off (my more
> usual browsing setup, but I chanced to leave it on today) the page
> behaves a lot more reasonably; I get one placeholder that I can click on
> if I feel like looking at the graphic.

    Ech - auto load off. Thanks for the hint.

>
> I realize that you spent a good deal of time on that "flashing dot"
> effect, but I'd counsel you to forget it.  It doesn't add a darn thing
> to the useful content of the page --- the red dots are perfectly visible
> without flashing.  (You could make them a tiny bit bigger and brighter,
> if you find them marginal.)  What it *will* do is create all sorts of
> portability headaches, of which you've seen only the beginning; you
> have not tried to get it to work across multiple browser versions or
> multiple platforms, to say nothing of browsers other than the Big Two.
> "I hacked it till it worked on the two browsers I use" is just about the
> definition of bad Web design in my book.  You'd be embarrassed to ship
> C code that unportable --- why are you willing to accept it in HTML?

    But then you have to vote for removing overlib from the  main
    index  too  since  as far as I've understood the code it does
    too less checking about browser versions etc.  We  want  such
    attracktive  things  even  if only the big two support them -
    no?


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:28:09 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
> > >
> > >     I've  installed  that one with different coloured flashes now
> > >     on the main site  developers  page.  The  map  image  is  now
> > >     700x270  in  jpeg  and  with  a  good quality (95% - in lower
> > >     quality the red dots get too diffuse).
> > >
> > >     I checked that it works with Netscape 4.05 and MS-IE 4.0.
> > >
> > >     Does anyone have problems with it?
> >
> > My only comment/problem...the underlying logo, IMHO, detracts from the
> > dots ... some of them you really have to pick at to see, with the logo
> > overshadowing it...
>
> I have to agree on this.

    Man - first it is too flat, now the logo detracs, the flashes
    cause problems and ppl vote agains. Next  someone  want's  it
    back rotating :-)

    OK,  ok  -  but slow motion now. A version that works for NS4
    and IE4 is in place. Let's  leave  it  there  until  we  have
    something  better.  I really wanted to get my fingers back on
    raytracing for a long time and that time is now. I'll produce
    some  different  map's  the next days and place them all into
    ~wieck/index.html, then we can have a voting.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:37:18 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

>     But then you have to vote for removing overlib from the  main
>     index  too  since  as far as I've understood the code it does
>     too less checking about browser versions etc.  We  want  such
>     attracktive  things  even  if only the big two support them -
>     no?

Out of the last 150k different computers hitting all of the web sites
hosted by Hub, 49.89% reported Netscape 4.x browers, while 31.84% reported
IE4.x ...

Use the Attractive Things...

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:49:56 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Developers Globe (FINAL)
> > I have to agree on this.
> 
>     Man - first it is too flat, now the logo detracs, the flashes
>     cause problems and ppl vote agains. Next  someone  want's  it
>     back rotating :-)
> 
>     OK,  ok  -  but slow motion now. A version that works for NS4
>     and IE4 is in place. Let's  leave  it  there  until  we  have
>     something  better.  I really wanted to get my fingers back on
>     raytracing for a long time and that time is now. I'll produce
>     some  different  map's  the next days and place them all into
>     ~wieck/index.html, then we can have a voting.

Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
static map(bad dots).


-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:41:19 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
> > > I have to agree on this.
> >
> >     Man - first it is too flat, now the logo detracs, the flashes
> >     cause problems and ppl vote agains. Next  someone  want's  it
> >     back rotating :-)
> >
> >     OK,  ok  -  but slow motion now. A version that works for NS4
> >     and IE4 is in place. Let's  leave  it  there  until  we  have
> >     something  better.  I really wanted to get my fingers back on
> >     raytracing for a long time and that time is now. I'll produce
> >     some  different  map's  the next days and place them all into
> >     ~wieck/index.html, then we can have a voting.
>
> Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
> static map(bad dots).

    The  first  raytraced  example  (just  a quick shot :-) is in
    place.

        http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html

    As you might expect, the locations of the nails are from  the
    same  data I already have. I just bent them a little so every
    location is visible. There is no map behind, but that's  easy
    and could have it's hot areas under the knobs of the nails.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:53:55 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> > Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
> > static map(bad dots).
> 
>     The  first  raytraced  example  (just  a quick shot :-) is in
>     place.
> 
>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> 
>     As you might expect, the locations of the nails are from  the
>     same  data I already have. I just bent them a little so every
>     location is visible. There is no map behind, but that's  easy
>     and could have it's hot areas under the knobs of the nails.

Woh.  I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it.  Certainly
jumps out at you.  Is it in a paper tray?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:09:52 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> >
> > > > I have to agree on this.
> > >
> > >     Man - first it is too flat, now the logo detracs, the flashes
> > >     cause problems and ppl vote agains. Next  someone  want's  it
> > >     back rotating :-)
> > >
> > >     OK,  ok  -  but slow motion now. A version that works for NS4
> > >     and IE4 is in place. Let's  leave  it  there  until  we  have
> > >     something  better.  I really wanted to get my fingers back on
> > >     raytracing for a long time and that time is now. I'll produce
> > >     some  different  map's  the next days and place them all into
> > >     ~wieck/index.html, then we can have a voting.
> >
> > Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
> > static map(bad dots).

When you put people's names on a page, amazing how interested they
become in the page.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:10:26 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)

On 16-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> > Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
>> > static map(bad dots).
>> 
>>     The  first  raytraced  example  (just  a quick shot :-) is in
>>     place.
>> 
>>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
>> 
>>     As you might expect, the locations of the nails are from  the
>>     same  data I already have. I just bent them a little so every
>>     location is visible. There is no map behind, but that's  easy
>>     and could have it's hot areas under the knobs of the nails.
> 
> Woh.  I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it.  Certainly
> jumps out at you.  Is it in a paper tray?

Almost looks like a wooden box with water in it and the continents are
floating on the water.  Jan, what are you using to create that?

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:20:39 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
>
> On 16-Mar-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >> > Now you know how I felt with the globe(too fast, hard to see), and
> >> > static map(bad dots).
> >>
> >>     The  first  raytraced  example  (just  a quick shot :-) is in
> >>     place.
> >>
> >>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >>
> >>     As you might expect, the locations of the nails are from  the
> >>     same  data I already have. I just bent them a little so every
> >>     location is visible. There is no map behind, but that's  easy
> >>     and could have it's hot areas under the knobs of the nails.
> >
> > Woh.  I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it.  Certainly
> > jumps out at you.  Is it in a paper tray?
>
> Almost looks like a wooden box with water in it and the continents are
> floating on the water.  Jan, what are you using to create that?
>
> Vince.

    It's a wooden box with some water looking ground - right. The
    continents sit on a glass surface above. Actually I'm playing
    around  with  some  bump  mapping  on the glass so it will be
    better visible. And there where some errors in the  images  I
    used for mapping, better soon.

    I'm using rayshade and the utah raster toolkit for that.

    It's  not  the  final  version.  Finally  there  will be some
    objects around the whole scene that  produce  reflections  on
    the  glass  so  it  looks  like  the box is laying on a table
    inside of a room.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:28:37 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
> >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> >
> Woh.  I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it.  Certainly
> jumps out at you.  Is it in a paper tray?

    Do  a reload.  Just to show you what "HIGH QUALITY" rendering
    means.

    It's still the same scene - just the  border  of  the  box  a
    little  higher, the glass better visible and sized to 600x300
    (to better fit on the  page).   This  time  rendered  with  a
    sampling  rate of 5^2 per pixel (so per pixel 25 eye rays are
    shot into the scene). Including all  shadowing,  transparency
    and  reflection  a  total  of  over 20 million rays have been
    traced (for a picture with 180,000 pixels)!

    Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
    minutes to finish that one.

    Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
    is from a scanned photo or the like.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:06:51 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
>     minutes to finish that one.
> 
>     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
>     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> 

You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
PostgreSQL logo request is coming!  (Marc, ask him.  Ask him!)

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:29:48 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
<raytracing details snipped>
> 
>     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
>     minutes to finish that one.
> 
>     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
>     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> 

And to make it just that little bit more life-like - 

How about either:
1 - bumpmap the continents to match the glass, then don't do a drop shadow
on the glass - so they look 'painted' on

or

2 - extrude the continents, so they have 'edges', and look like blocks of
foam pasted on the glass (with or w/o a finer grained bumpmap of their own)

You've got all the CPU in the world, right? ;-)

Ross
-- 
Ross J. Reedstrom, Ph.D., <reedstrm@rice.edu> 
NSBRI Research Scientist/Programmer
Computer and Information Technology Institute
Rice University, 6100 S. Main St.,  Houston, TX 77005

Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:38:53 -0600 (CST)
reedstrm@wallace.ece.rice.edu (Ross J. Reedstrom)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
Jan, your picture looks great. I'm going to have a presentation at
LinuxWorld Conference in Japan about PostgreSQL tomorrow and I would
like to show your picture to tell people how PostgreSQL developers
widely spread in the world. Can I use that?

Of course I will put a copyright notice of you along with the picture.
--
Tatsuo Ishii

>> >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
>> >
>> Woh.  I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it.  Certainly
>> jumps out at you.  Is it in a paper tray?
>
>    Do  a reload.  Just to show you what "HIGH QUALITY" rendering
>    means.
>
>    It's still the same scene - just the  border  of  the  box  a
>    little  higher, the glass better visible and sized to 600x300
>    (to better fit on the  page).   This  time  rendered  with  a
>    sampling  rate of 5^2 per pixel (so per pixel 25 eye rays are
>    shot into the scene). Including all  shadowing,  transparency
>    and  reflection  a  total  of  over 20 million rays have been
>    traced (for a picture with 180,000 pixels)!
>
>    Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
>    minutes to finish that one.
>
>    Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
>    is from a scanned photo or the like.
>
>
>Jan
>
>--
>
>#======================================================================#
># It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
># Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
>#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #
>
>
>


Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:08:23 +0900
Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL) 
>     It's a wooden box with some water looking ground - right. The
>     continents sit on a glass surface above. Actually I'm playing
>     around  with  some  bump  mapping  on the glass so it will be
>     better visible. And there where some errors in the  images  I
>     used for mapping, better soon.

Jan, can I recommend you change the perspective of viewing the globe
from southern to northern.  Because we are mostly in the northern
hemisphere, a perspective change would make that area larger, like
Europe.



-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:02:14 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)

Jan...

	Any way of coming up with a suitable Logo to replace what we have
on the main screen?  Something tasteful that jumps out at you?  I like the
one we do have, but I don't think its very "strong"?  How about it? :)


On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> > >         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck/index.html
> > >
> > Woh.  I didn't know what ratracing was, but I know I like it.  Certainly
> > jumps out at you.  Is it in a paper tray?
> 
>     Do  a reload.  Just to show you what "HIGH QUALITY" rendering
>     means.
> 
>     It's still the same scene - just the  border  of  the  box  a
>     little  higher, the glass better visible and sized to 600x300
>     (to better fit on the  page).   This  time  rendered  with  a
>     sampling  rate of 5^2 per pixel (so per pixel 25 eye rays are
>     shot into the scene). Including all  shadowing,  transparency
>     and  reflection  a  total  of  over 20 million rays have been
>     traced (for a picture with 180,000 pixels)!
> 
>     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
>     minutes to finish that one.
> 
>     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
>     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> 
> 
> Jan
> 
> --
> 
> #======================================================================#
> # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
> # Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
> #======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #
> 
> 

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:11:49 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
>
> Jan, your picture looks great. I'm going to have a presentation at
> LinuxWorld Conference in Japan about PostgreSQL tomorrow and I would
> like to show your picture to tell people how PostgreSQL developers
> widely spread in the world. Can I use that?

    Yeah - use it!

>
> Of course I will put a copyright notice of you along with the picture.

    It  is  based  on  free informations (the map coords are from
    xearth). And free software (rayshade) made it.   Do  whatever
    you want with it - it's free.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:47:36 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
> >     It's a wooden box with some water looking ground - right. The
> >     continents sit on a glass surface above. Actually I'm playing
> >     around  with  some  bump  mapping  on the glass so it will be
> >     better visible. And there where some errors in the  images  I
> >     used for mapping, better soon.
>
> Jan, can I recommend you change the perspective of viewing the globe
> from southern to northern.  Because we are mostly in the northern
> hemisphere, a perspective change would make that area larger, like
> Europe.

    I  tried  that, but the nails in europe are packed that close
    that they hide each other then. Wasn't easy to find  a  point
    of view where everyone is visible.

    I'll  first create a magnifying glass over europe as sample 2
    :-)

    The next I'll try is a flat map directly looked at from above
    with  all  the names put with arrows onto a transparent layer
    above. That would make overlib/JavaScript  obsolete!  But  it
    requires that the names are readable at last.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:00:02 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> Jan...
>
>    Any way of coming up with a suitable Logo to replace what we have
> on the main screen?  Something tasteful that jumps out at you?  I like the
> one we do have, but I don't think its very "strong"?  How about it? :)

    Nothing's  impossible  with  a raytracer and some time! And I
    expected this question while creating the map :-)

    But it would be nice if some others would  share  some  ideas
    for it.

    My first thought was a big truck on a road in the desert with
    some cirrus clouds in the sky and "PostgreSQL" written on the
    trailer.  Maybe some snow capped mountains in the background.

    Don't think that such a detailed scene is good  for  a  small
    Powered  By  logo,  and  the new logo must definitely fit for
    that too.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:10:51 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
>>
>> Jan, your picture looks great. I'm going to have a presentation at
>> LinuxWorld Conference in Japan about PostgreSQL tomorrow and I would
>> like to show your picture to tell people how PostgreSQL developers
>> widely spread in the world. Can I use that?
>
>    Yeah - use it!

Thanks!

>>
>> Of course I will put a copyright notice of you along with the picture.
>
>    It  is  based  on  free informations (the map coords are from
>    xearth). And free software (rayshade) made it.   Do  whatever
>    you want with it - it's free.

Ok.
--
Tatsuo Ishii

Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:10:13 +0900
Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL) 
Bruce Momjian wrote:

>
> >     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
> >     minutes to finish that one.
> >
> >     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> >     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> >
>
> You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> PostgreSQL logo request is coming!  (Marc, ask him.  Ask him!)

    A first one is on my index. I prefer the version with ORDBMS.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:14:18 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> >
> > >     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
> > >     minutes to finish that one.
> > >
> > >     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > >     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > >
> >
> > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > PostgreSQL logo request is coming!  (Marc, ask him.  Ask him!)
> 
>     A first one is on my index. I prefer the version with ORDBMS.

I agree!  What are anyone's thoughts to having the web background the
same as the logo's background?

One suggestion on the logo, tho, can you dim the light that's shining
on it?  It sorta takes away from the rest of it.  (Yes I know it's
a virtual light)

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:36:55 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> >
> > >     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
> > >     minutes to finish that one.
> > >
> > >     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > >     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > >
> >
> > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > PostgreSQL logo request is coming!  (Marc, ask him.  Ask him!)
> 
>     A first one is on my index. I prefer the version with ORDBMS.

Shocking to most, I like...nice, simple, not too overwhelming...but (ya
ya, always a but)...in the Powered By one, the left side is really faint,
almost to the point of unable to read the letters...?

As for preference...ya, Ilike the ORDBS one too...

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:43:01 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
> > Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > >     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
> > > >     minutes to finish that one.
> > > >
> > > >     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > > >     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > > PostgreSQL logo request is coming!  (Marc, ask him.  Ask him!)
> > 
> >     A first one is on my index. I prefer the version with ORDBMS.
> 
> I agree!  What are anyone's thoughts to having the web background the
> same as the logo's background?

	Ummm...it depends on how it looks.  ONe thing that I *really* hate
about backgrounds is they generally make reading teh page
difficult...there are *alot* of bad sites out there that are a result of
it :(

	If it can be done right, it would be nice if it could all look
like one solid piece, yes...

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:44:11 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> > I agree!  What are anyone's thoughts to having the web background the
> > same as the logo's background?
>
>    Ummm...it depends on how it looks.  ONe thing that I *really* hate
> about backgrounds is they generally make reading teh page
> difficult...there are *alot* of bad sites out there that are a result of
> it :(
>
>    If it can be done right, it would be nice if it could all look
> like one solid piece, yes...

    That's  impossible.  The  background  is  a sky texture which
    isn't repeating.  It is computed  by  a  fractional  brownian
    motion function.

    For  a  web  page background, you need a repeating image that
    can be tiled.

    I like the sky  in  the  background,  because  it  carries  a
    message.  But I wouldn't mind too much removing it and making
    the background transparent.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:00:04 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> >
> > >     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
> > >     minutes to finish that one.
> > >
> > >     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > >     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > >
> >
> > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > PostgreSQL logo request is coming!  (Marc, ask him.  Ask him!)

I think I like the 3rd developers globe.  Can we try it without
stickpins?  I think it is looking confusing.  Looks like there is enough
room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
a stickpin.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:01:30 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> same as the logo's background?
> 
> One suggestion on the logo, tho, can you dim the light that's shining
> on it?  It sorta takes away from the rest of it.  (Yes I know it's
> a virtual light)
> 

Here is an idea.  I have thought about making the name stand out as a
pattern within a grid/table.  

If you remember the end of the movie 2001, where HAL has those red bars
coming out as he is disconnected.  We could have PostgreSQL spelled out
as red bard sticking out in a grid:


	---
	-  -
	---
	-
	_

like this.  Of course, the grid would have to have lots of bars to look
good.  I thought this would go well with an SQL/table motif.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:04:36 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>     That's  impossible.  The  background  is  a sky texture which
>     isn't repeating.  It is computed  by  a  fractional  brownian
>     motion function.
> 
>     For  a  web  page background, you need a repeating image that
>     can be tiled.
> 
>     I like the sky  in  the  background,  because  it  carries  a
>     message.  But I wouldn't mind too much removing it and making
>     the background transparent.

Maybe more of a sunset/sunrise sky, so it has some color, and looks less
like an MS-Windows background.  The setting sun could be in front of the
name, illuminating it with dramatic color.


-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:07:07 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
> > same as the logo's background?
> >
> > One suggestion on the logo, tho, can you dim the light that's shining
> > on it?  It sorta takes away from the rest of it.  (Yes I know it's
> > a virtual light)
> >
>
> Here is an idea.  I have thought about making the name stand out as a
> pattern within a grid/table.
>
> If you remember the end of the movie 2001, where HAL has those red bars
> coming out as he is disconnected.  We could have PostgreSQL spelled out
> as red bard sticking out in a grid:

    Hmmm  -  you  mean his crystal storage which Dave was pushing
    and they smoothly came out - no?

    Nice idea.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:16:41 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> >
> > > same as the logo's background?
> > >
> > > One suggestion on the logo, tho, can you dim the light that's shining
> > > on it?  It sorta takes away from the rest of it.  (Yes I know it's
> > > a virtual light)
> > >
> >
> > Here is an idea.  I have thought about making the name stand out as a
> > pattern within a grid/table.
> >
> > If you remember the end of the movie 2001, where HAL has those red bars
> > coming out as he is disconnected.  We could have PostgreSQL spelled out
> > as red bard sticking out in a grid:
> 
>     Hmmm  -  you  mean his crystal storage which Dave was pushing
>     and they smoothly came out - no?
> 
>     Nice idea.

Yes, that was my idea of somehow merging PostgreSQL into some table
format.  Could look really cool, especially if viewed from an angle, or
really poor.

With someone who can do almost anything(you!), it becomes a harder
question of what we want.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:20:42 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > >     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
> > > >     minutes to finish that one.
> > > >
> > > >     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > > >     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > > PostgreSQL logo request is coming!  (Marc, ask him.  Ask him!)
> 
> I think I like the 3rd developers globe.  Can we try it without
> stickpins?  I think it is looking confusing.  Looks like there is enough
> room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
> a stickpin.

	I agree about the 3rd globe, but disagree about the stick pins...I
like them, personally...reminds me about how one does military tactical
maps *grin*

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:48:36 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> 
> On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > > Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > >     Those pictures are CPU killers. A 333 MHz  Celeron  needs  20
> > > > >     minutes to finish that one.
> > > > >
> > > > >     Remember,  it's a 100% virtual picture. Not one single detail
> > > > >     is from a scanned photo or the like.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You realize that now that we know you can do these images, a new
> > > > PostgreSQL logo request is coming!  (Marc, ask him.  Ask him!)
> > 
> > I think I like the 3rd developers globe.  Can we try it without
> > stickpins?  I think it is looking confusing.  Looks like there is enough
> > room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
> > a stickpin.
> 
> 	I agree about the 3rd globe, but disagree about the stick pins...I
> like them, personally...reminds me about how one does military tactical
> maps *grin*

.PS
And there isn't enough room in England. Andrew and Peter are that close to 
each other that they would have to share one. It's not fair if anyone else
has a stick for it's own.

But I'll try another type of stick.
.PE


Jan

-- 

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #


Fri, 19 Mar 1999 20:54:58 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> And there isn't enough room in England. Andrew and Peter are that close to
> each other that they would have to share one. It's not fair if anyone else
> has a stick for it's own.
>
> But I'll try another type of stick.

    Hmmm - I'm absolutely unhappy with example #4. The conversion
    to JPG destroyed that one nearly. The rayshade output  (517K)
    is  absolutely  nice.  But it seems the drastic color changes
    from one pixel to the next aren't what JPG likes.

    I've noticed it earlier that all  the  images  get  a  little
    dimmed  when  converted to JPG. They look brighter in the RLE
    format or when converted to PPM.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:04:29 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)

On 19-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>> And there isn't enough room in England. Andrew and Peter are that close to
>> each other that they would have to share one. It's not fair if anyone else
>> has a stick for it's own.
>>
>> But I'll try another type of stick.
> 
>     Hmmm - I'm absolutely unhappy with example #4. The conversion
>     to JPG destroyed that one nearly. The rayshade output  (517K)
>     is  absolutely  nice.  But it seems the drastic color changes
>     from one pixel to the next aren't what JPG likes.
> 
>     I've noticed it earlier that all  the  images  get  a  little
>     dimmed  when  converted to JPG. They look brighter in the RLE
>     format or when converted to PPM.

I agree.  Ick.  Or were those pillars where stickpins used to be 
intentional?  Either way, ick.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================



Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:16:00 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>     My first thought was a big truck on a road in the desert with
>     some cirrus clouds in the sky and "PostgreSQL" written on the
>     trailer.  Maybe some snow capped mountains in the background.

Let me give you an idea.

Instead of a truck, a freight train.

You could have the engine with PostreSQL on the side, and the boxcars
could have PostgreSQL keywords on it, like SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE, RULE,
etc.  The cars could trail off into the distance.

Or you could picture a horseshoe curve, like we have in Pennsylvania. 
The curve does a 180 degree turn, like an upside-down U, so you see more
of the train in the picture, with the engine on the left, and caboose on
the right.  (I can show you a picture if that helps.)  You could put the
name PostgreSQL on the mountain in the background of the curve too,
again with keywords on the boxcars.

You could even add a train to the bottom of the existing logo you have
made, with perhaps objects in the hopper cars.  Would make a nice logo,
and give it some movement.  Smoke trailing out of the engine, etc.

Of course, being from Pennsylvania, USA, I have to recommend a train.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:26:29 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
Bruce Momjian wrote:

>
> >     My first thought was a big truck on a road in the desert with
> >     some cirrus clouds in the sky and "PostgreSQL" written on the
> >     trailer.  Maybe some snow capped mountains in the background.
>
> Let me give you an idea.
>
> Instead of a truck, a freight train.
>
> You could have the engine with PostreSQL on the side, and the boxcars
> could have PostgreSQL keywords on it, like SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE, RULE,
> etc.  The cars could trail off into the distance.
>
> Or you could picture a horseshoe curve, like we have in Pennsylvania.
> The curve does a 180 degree turn, like an upside-down U, so you see more
> of the train in the picture, with the engine on the left, and caboose on
> the right.  (I can show you a picture if that helps.)  You could put the
> name PostgreSQL on the mountain in the background of the curve too,
> again with keywords on the boxcars.
>
> You could even add a train to the bottom of the existing logo you have
> made, with perhaps objects in the hopper cars.  Would make a nice logo,
> and give it some movement.  Smoke trailing out of the engine, etc.
>
> Of course, being from Pennsylvania, USA, I have to recommend a train.

    Another nice idea - better than the truck.

    But  (I known that many of my sentences begin with but) - but
    I thought about all that during the wieckend without creating
    pictures.  And  I came to the conclusion that we make a major
    mistake actually.

    We are talking about some nice image for the WEB banner,  not
    about a LOGO.

    PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo.  There is a wide range of
    kinds of logos out in the world. Some  are  simple  graphics,
    some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
    car manufacturers use some simple graphic that  could  easily
    be  made  out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
    few colors:

      a lion (Peugeot)
      two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
      four circles (Audi)
      a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
      a rhomb (Renault)
      a stylistic H (Honda)
      specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)

    Most  of  them  have  interesting  shading  and  reflectional
    effects when made out of chrome.

    One  well  known  self  associative  thing is this: Write any
    combination of  three  capital  letters  in  horizontal  blue
    stripes.  What a brand!

    Free software products also have logos already. Remember this
    coloured feather, that little  cute  penguin  or  the  little
    devil.

    Except  for the last two (Linux and BSD), all these logos can
    be easily  drawn  in  any  pixel  editor  and  don't  need  a
    raytracer.  If we come up with such a thing, it might be easy
    to create a raytraced WEB banner image where this logo stands
    out. But thinking of the image first is bottom up.

    Another  advantage  having  such  a  logo  would be, that the
    banner image could change from time to time  without  loosing
    anything.  Only  that  the  logo  must  be subject of all the
    images.

    I like the coloured feather of Apache, because it  is  simple
    and  tells something about it. The message I see is "free and
    light".

    Sorry for taking us back to the start. But we  need  to  make
    the first step first.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:48:37 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > I think I like the 3rd developers globe.  Can we try it without
> > stickpins?  I think it is looking confusing.  Looks like there is enough
> > room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
> > a stickpin.
>
>    I agree about the 3rd globe, but disagree about the stick pins...I
> like them, personally...reminds me about how one does military tactical
> maps *grin*

    I  like  them  too :-). Maybe Bruce is right that they should
    look more like silver.

    I've changed them and placed a magnifying glass  over  europe
    as  Example  5.   Even  if  it hides some parts of the map, I
    think it's useful (not everyone has a real  magnifying  glass
    handy so a virtual one isn't a bad thing).


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:35:31 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > >
> > > I think I like the 3rd developers globe.  Can we try it without
> > > stickpins?  I think it is looking confusing.  Looks like there is enough
> > > room in England on that image to show everyone as red dome, rather than
> > > a stickpin.
> >
> >    I agree about the 3rd globe, but disagree about the stick pins...I
> > like them, personally...reminds me about how one does military tactical
> > maps *grin*
> 
>     I  like  them  too :-). Maybe Bruce is right that they should
>     look more like silver.

Yes, better in silver.

> 
>     I've changed them and placed a magnifying glass  over  europe
>     as  Example  5.   Even  if  it hides some parts of the map, I
>     think it's useful (not everyone has a real  magnifying  glass
>     handy so a virtual one isn't a bad thing).

Why not set the image perspecive over Europe, that way all dots are
visible, and no need for a magnifying glass.  The magnifying glass
removes the continuity of the image for me.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:49:16 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

>     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo.  There is a wide range of
>     kinds of logos out in the world. Some  are  simple  graphics,
>     some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
>     car manufacturers use some simple graphic that  could  easily
>     be  made  out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
>     few colors:
> 
>       a lion (Peugeot)
>       two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
>       four circles (Audi)
>       a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
>       a rhomb (Renault)
>       a stylistic H (Honda)
>       specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)

Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
go the distance... :)


Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:11:13 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> >     I've changed them and placed a magnifying glass  over  europe
> >     as  Example  5.   Even  if  it hides some parts of the map, I
> >     think it's useful (not everyone has a real  magnifying  glass
> >     handy so a virtual one isn't a bad thing).
> 
> Why not set the image perspecive over Europe, that way all dots are
> visible, and no need for a magnifying glass.  The magnifying glass
> removes the continuity of the image for me.

	Agreed on this point...some sort of floating magnifying glass
would be cool, that follows your mouse pointer, but, Ithink, unrealistic
:(

Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:12:04 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)

On 22-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
>>     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo.  There is a wide range of
>>     kinds of logos out in the world. Some  are  simple  graphics,
>>     some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
>>     car manufacturers use some simple graphic that  could  easily
>>     be  made  out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
>>     few colors:
>> 
>>       a lion (Peugeot)
>>       two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
>>       four circles (Audi)
>>       a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
>>       a rhomb (Renault)
>>       a stylistic H (Honda)
>>       specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)
> 
> Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
> go the distance... :)

never forgets...

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:13:52 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

>
> On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> >     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo.  There is a wide range of
> >     kinds of logos out in the world. Some  are  simple  graphics,
> >     some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
> >     car manufacturers use some simple graphic that  could  easily
> >     be  made  out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
> >     few colors:
> >
> >       a lion (Peugeot)
> >       two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
> >       four circles (Audi)
> >       a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
> >       a rhomb (Renault)
> >       a stylistic H (Honda)
> >       specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)
>
> Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
> go the distance... :)

    But is itself a bit fat - do we want that association? :-)

    The first I've created has a diamond. It's on my index.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:14:46 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> 
> On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > >     I've changed them and placed a magnifying glass  over  europe
> > >     as  Example  5.   Even  if  it hides some parts of the map, I
> > >     think it's useful (not everyone has a real  magnifying  glass
> > >     handy so a virtual one isn't a bad thing).
> > 
> > Why not set the image perspecive over Europe, that way all dots are
> > visible, and no need for a magnifying glass.  The magnifying glass
> > removes the continuity of the image for me.
> 
> 	Agreed on this point...some sort of floating magnifying glass
> would be cool, that follows your mouse pointer, but, Ithink, unrealistic
> :(

    Was only a test. Will remove it again.


Jan

-- 

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #


Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:24:45 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> > >     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo.  There is a wide range of
> > >     kinds of logos out in the world. Some  are  simple  graphics,
> > >     some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
> > >     car manufacturers use some simple graphic that  could  easily
> > >     be  made  out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
> > >     few colors:
> > >
> > >       a lion (Peugeot)
> > >       two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
> > >       four circles (Audi)
> > >       a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
> > >       a rhomb (Renault)
> > >       a stylistic H (Honda)
> > >       specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)
> >
> > Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
> > go the distance... :)
> 
>     But is itself a bit fat - do we want that association? :-)

Not fat...heavy weight :)

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:32:25 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > >
> > > >     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo.  There is a wide range of
> > > >     kinds of logos out in the world. Some  are  simple  graphics,
> > > >     some are self associative ways to instanciate something. Most
> > > >     car manufacturers use some simple graphic that  could  easily
> > > >     be  made  out of chrome (must be part of the concept) or with
> > > >     few colors:
> > > >
> > > >       a lion (Peugeot)
> > > >       two upward pointing angles (Citroen)
> > > >       four circles (Audi)
> > > >       a circle in bavarian colors (BMW)
> > > >       a rhomb (Renault)
> > > >       a stylistic H (Honda)
> > > >       specially forms of stars (Chrysler, Mercedes)
> > >
> > > Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to carry heavy loads and
> > > go the distance... :)

Aint elephant associated mostly with some political party in US ?

> >     But is itself a bit fat - do we want that association? :-)

I once did some crocodiles, 

http://sid.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page2.html

the reasoning is at the beginning of:

http://sid.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page.html

This discussion has escaped me until now as this went 
under the heading Developers Globe ;)

-------------------
Hannu

Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:26:35 +0200
Hannu Krosing <hannu@trust.ee>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) writes:

>     But is itself a bit fat - do we want that association? :-)
> 
>     The first I've created has a diamond. It's on my index.

I think this is the absolute best set of logo offerings yet.

I like #2 best.

#1 reminds me of the dopey I<heart>NY bumper stickers that were all
the rage some years back.

In #3, centering "Powered by" weakens the effect somehow.

But all three look very good.


Would it look less cluttered without the ORDBMS?


I've been speaking to one of the artists at work about logos. His
description of a good logo includes the following:

1. Should be simple enough that it's recognizable when scaled down to
   small icon size.

2. Should be recognizable from the shape of its silhouette. We should
   know what it stands for even without standard colors and with
   extreme contrast.

3. The shape should somehow suggest the entity that is represented.

4. Does not necessarily include the company name. This can be attached
   beside the logo.

His examples of good logos: AT&T "death star", the Apple logo. I'd add
the FreeBSD logo as a third.


23 Mar 1999 03:05:12 -0600
Hal Snyder <DrXyzzy@mediaone.net>
Dimaond Logo (was Globe...)
Hal Snyder wrote:

>
> jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) writes:
>
> >     The first I've created has a diamond. It's on my index.
>
> I think this is the absolute best set of logo offerings yet.

    Thanks

>
> I like #2 best.

    And I #1 - maybe because I created that first.

> In #3, centering "Powered by" weakens the effect somehow.

    If  we choose the diamond as our logo, I'll create a bunch of
    permutations where "Powered by" and  the  diamond  are  left,
    center/as-o, right and we should vote on.

> Would it look less cluttered without the ORDBMS?

    Don't  know  - would be part of the permutations.  Would make
    it consume less space though :-).

>
> I've been speaking to one of the artists at work about logos. His
> description of a good logo includes the following:
>
> 1. Should be simple enough that it's recognizable when scaled down to
>    small icon size.
>
> 2. Should be recognizable from the shape of its silhouette. We should
>    know what it stands for even without standard colors and with
>    extreme contrast.
>
> 3. The shape should somehow suggest the entity that is represented.
>
> 4. Does not necessarily include the company name. This can be attached
>    beside the logo.
>
> His examples of good logos: AT&T "death star", the Apple logo. I'd add
> the FreeBSD logo as a third.

    Rules 1 and 2 are matched. Rule 3 - a diamond is hard, sharp,
    clear bright and more worthy than gold - matched.

    Rule  number  4  I  would  not  want  to  match. The spelling
    PostgreSQL (not  Postgres-SQL  or  all  the  other  spellings
    sometimes  used)  is somewhat special and thus should be part
    of the logo.

    My absolute  favorites  of  logos  are  the  ones  where  the
    font/colors+outline  associate  with the name. Write anything
    in that special curly way white on a red background  and  you
    have  Coke. Any 3 capitals written in blue stripes reminds on
    IBM. And my wife bought NIVEA in Tunis -  it  was  just  that
    blue  round cover with some arabic letters in white :-) - you
    can read that even if you can't identify one single letter.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:59:23 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Dimaond Logo (was Globe...)
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

>     My absolute  favorites  of  logos  are  the  ones  where  the
>     font/colors+outline  associate  with the name. Write anything
>     in that special curly way white on a red background  and  you
>     have  Coke. Any 3 capitals written in blue stripes reminds on
>     IBM. And my wife bought NIVEA in Tunis -  it  was  just  that
>     blue  round cover with some arabic letters in white :-) - you
>     can read that even if you can't identify one single letter.

Speaking of color, how about a different color for "Postgre"?  That
one's a bit boring.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:23:13 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Dimaond Logo (was Globe...)
>
> On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>
> >     My absolute  favorites  of  logos  are  the  ones  where  the
> >     font/colors+outline  associate  with the name. Write anything
> >     in that special curly way white on a red background  and  you
> >     have  Coke. Any 3 capitals written in blue stripes reminds on
> >     IBM. And my wife bought NIVEA in Tunis -  it  was  just  that
> >     blue  round cover with some arabic letters in white :-) - you
> >     can read that even if you can't identify one single letter.
>
> Speaking of color, how about a different color for "Postgre"?  That
> one's a bit boring.

    Tell RGB...


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:25:09 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] Dimaond Logo (was Globe...)
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> > On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> >
> > >     My absolute  favorites  of  logos  are  the  ones  where  the
> > >     font/colors+outline  associate  with the name. Write anything
> > >     in that special curly way white on a red background  and  you
> > >     have  Coke. Any 3 capitals written in blue stripes reminds on
> > >     IBM. And my wife bought NIVEA in Tunis -  it  was  just  that
> > >     blue  round cover with some arabic letters in white :-) - you
> > >     can read that even if you can't identify one single letter.
> >
> > Speaking of color, how about a different color for "Postgre"?  That
> > one's a bit boring.
> 
>     Tell RGB...

Dunno.  That's why I didn't suggest one.  What works with blue and gray?
If I can find it I'll dig out the color wheel and take a look.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
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Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:31:16 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Dimaond Logo (was Globe...)
On 23 Mar 1999, Hal Snyder wrote:

> jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) writes:
> 
> >     But is itself a bit fat - do we want that association? :-)
> > 
> >     The first I've created has a diamond. It's on my index.
> 
> I think this is the absolute best set of logo offerings yet.
> 
> I like #2 best.
> 
> #1 reminds me of the dopey I<heart>NY bumper stickers that were all
> the rage some years back.

Geez, and I liked that one best :(



Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:09:54 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] Dimaond Logo (was Globe...)
Hannu Krosing wrote:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > >     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo. 
> > Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to 
> > carry heavy loads and go the distance... :)

I really like the Elephant idea. 

> Aint elephant associated mostly with some political party in US ?

Sure, but the first thing which came to my mind was Dumbo 
the flying elephant and the Jungle book's kernel Harting.

> I once did some crocodiles,
> http://sid.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page.html
 
The Crocodile is cool, but I'd vote for an Elephant, 
or perhaps a bear.

:) Clark

Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:58:03 +0000
Clark Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
> Hannu Krosing wrote:
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > > >     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo. 
> > > Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to 
> > > carry heavy loads and go the distance... :)
> 
> I really like the Elephant idea. 
> 
> > Aint elephant associated mostly with some political party in US ?
> 
> Sure, but the first thing which came to my mind was Dumbo 
> the flying elephant and the Jungle book's kernel Harting.
> 
> > I once did some crocodiles,
> > http://sid.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page.html
>  
> The Crocodile is cool, but I'd vote for an Elephant, 
> or perhaps a bear.

Elephant with a diamond on his back, or a train pulling a diamond?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:03:33 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)
>
> Hannu Krosing wrote:
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > > >     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo.
> > > Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to
> > > carry heavy loads and go the distance... :)
>
> I really like the Elephant idea.
>
> > Aint elephant associated mostly with some political party in US ?
>
> Sure, but the first thing which came to my mind was Dumbo
> the flying elephant and the Jungle book's kernel Harting.

    :-)

>
> > I once did some crocodiles,
> > http://sid.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page.html
>
> The Crocodile is cool, but I'd vote for an Elephant,
> or perhaps a bear.

    I've  just  finished  the first raytraces of the diamond logo
    and the according WEB banner.

        http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:08:30 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
>
> Elephant with a diamond on his back, or a train pulling a diamond?
>

    Such  a  scene would look nice as a WEB banner for some page.
    But not for a "Powered by"  logo.  When  sized  to  something
    below  200x100  you  would  only  see  some dust, not a train
    anymore. Or you can identify the  elephant  but  the  diamond
    shrinks down to a dot.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:11:17 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Elephant with a diamond on his back, or a train pulling a diamond?

How about a dimond with an elephant in the middle.
Kinda like the pink panther.

:) Clark

Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:19:51 +0000
Clark Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
Re: [HACKERS] Re: Developers Globe (FINAL)

On 23-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>>
>> Hannu Krosing wrote:
>> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> > > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
>> > > >     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo.
>> > > Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to
>> > > carry heavy loads and go the distance... :)
>>
>> I really like the Elephant idea.
>>
>> > Aint elephant associated mostly with some political party in US ?
>>
>> Sure, but the first thing which came to my mind was Dumbo
>> the flying elephant and the Jungle book's kernel Harting.
> 
>     :-)
> 
>>
>> > I once did some crocodiles,
>> > http://sid.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page.html
>>
>> The Crocodile is cool, but I'd vote for an Elephant,
>> or perhaps a bear.
> 
>     I've  just  finished  the first raytraces of the diamond logo
>     and the according WEB banner.
> 
>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck

Where's the elephant?  :)

Looks good, but the diamond needs the benefit of a star filter on the 
camera (so to speak).   If you need I'll try to explain it in a bit more
detail.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:23:58 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
>
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Elephant with a diamond on his back, or a train pulling a diamond?
>
> How about a dimond with an elephant in the middle.
> Kinda like the pink panther.

    Not  easy to design an elephant in the geometric figure world
    of a raytracer. But I like the idea of putting  the  elephant
    inside the diamond.

    Hmmm - many diamonds have some (dunno how it's called really)
    faults. The one of our diamond could have  a  shape  like  an
    elephant.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:38:05 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
>
> Where's the elephant?  :)

    Still  in  mind and the last idea of Clark was totally nice -
    putting the elephant into  the  diamond.  Need's  a  complete
    crystal diamond (that will eat CPU - man).

>
> Looks good, but the diamond needs the benefit of a star filter on the
> camera (so to speak).   If you need I'll try to explain it in a bit more
> detail.

    Outch  -  yes I know what you mean - I have such a one for my
    camera too (along with the other usual ones like the  2  diop
    hole  lense  etc.).  That's  one  of the limits of raytracing
    AFAIK. I never had any success on such a thing like a filter.
    Also  it's  impossible  to  build  spectral effects. Spectral
    effects are based on the fact that the refractional index  of
    a  material varies on the frequency of the light (that's what
    makes the fire in diamonds). But a raytracer cannot do this -
    or  at  least  the  trace would run infinitely long - thus no
    tracer I know of supports it.

    But on the star filter I have already an idea. Will  try  out
    some things.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:50:10 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, you wrote:

>    Outch  -  yes I know what you mean - I have such a one for my
>    camera too (along with the other usual ones like the  2  diop
>    hole  lense  etc.).  That's  one  of the limits of raytracing
>    AFAIK. I never had any success on such a thing like a filter.
>    Also  it's  impossible  to  build  spectral effects. Spectral
>    effects are based on the fact that the refractional index  of
>    a  material varies on the frequency of the light (that's what
>    makes the fire in diamonds). But a raytracer cannot do this -
>    or  at  least  the  trace would run infinitely long - thus no
>    tracer I know of supports it.

Doesn't blender do spectral effects?

Taral

Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:01:31 -0600
Taral <taral@cyberjunkie.com>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
> >
> > Elephant with a diamond on his back, or a train pulling a diamond?
> >
> 
>     Such  a  scene would look nice as a WEB banner for some page.
>     But not for a "Powered by"  logo.  When  sized  to  something
>     below  200x100  you  would  only  see  some dust, not a train
>     anymore. Or you can identify the  elephant  but  the  diamond
>     shrinks down to a dot.
> 

Yes.  Absolutely.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:53:59 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))

I kinda liked the ORDBMS tack'd onto the bottom...


On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> >
> > Hannu Krosing wrote:
> > > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> > > > >     PostgreSQL  doesn't  have  a  logo.
> > > > Agreed...Elephant still comes to mind...ability to
> > > > carry heavy loads and go the distance... :)
> >
> > I really like the Elephant idea.
> >
> > > Aint elephant associated mostly with some political party in US ?
> >
> > Sure, but the first thing which came to my mind was Dumbo
> > the flying elephant and the Jungle book's kernel Harting.
> 
>     :-)
> 
> >
> > > I once did some crocodiles,
> > > http://sid.trust.ee/Info/PostgreSQL.figs/logo/page.html
> >
> > The Crocodile is cool, but I'd vote for an Elephant,
> > or perhaps a bear.
> 
>     I've  just  finished  the first raytraces of the diamond logo
>     and the according WEB banner.
> 
>         http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck
> 
> 
> Jan
> 
> --
> 
> #======================================================================#
> # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
> # Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
> #======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #
> 
> 

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Wed, 24 Mar 1999 01:08:55 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
>
>
> I kinda liked the ORDBMS tack'd onto the bottom...

     Someone said it makes it confuse. So I tried without.

> > > The Crocodile is cool, but I'd vote for an Elephant,
> > > or perhaps a bear.

    Are  we still talking about a PG LOGO or do we plan to open a
    zoo :-)


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:02:50 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
I still like #2 in the set of three the best. The 3D highlighting done
to the letters in the top set of logos makes them harder to read on my
monitor than the flat letters. And I can't tell what that blue thingie
is inside the diamond.

Maybe I agree with Vince that the straw color of the letters isn't the
greatest. We can always change the color scheme of the web pages to
match a new logo if we ever agree on the perfect logo.

I was one a complainer about the ORDBMS fine print. Trying to keep it
simple. (Also preferred the diamond outside the word, *still* feel a
shape in place of a letter is a cliche but guess I'm outnumbered on
that point.)

Jan, thanks for putting up with this silliness.

jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) writes:

> >
> >
> > I kinda liked the ORDBMS tack'd onto the bottom...
> 
>      Someone said it makes it confuse. So I tried without.
> 
> > > > The Crocodile is cool, but I'd vote for an Elephant,
> > > > or perhaps a bear.
> 
>     Are  we still talking about a PG LOGO or do we plan to open a
>     zoo :-)


25 Mar 1999 02:22:23 -0600
Hal Snyder <DrXyzzy@mediaone.net>
Re: PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> I kinda liked the ORDBMS tack'd onto the bottom...
>
>

    Reload!

    You  wanted  an  elephant  - hopefully that's elephant enough
    (it's one of these majestic, african bulls). I  like  jewels,
    so that's still there :-)

    Haven't  created  the  Powerd  by  ones  now, because I think
    Powered by isn't the right wording for an elephant logo. What
    about  "Carried  by"?   I  Think  for  the  small  ones,  the
    "PostgreSQL" might  move  down  to  make  the  room  for  the
    "Carried  by"  above.  In that case, there's no room left for
    the ORDBMS, so I left that out - sorry.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:05:50 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
Jan Wieck wrote:
>     You  wanted  an  elephant  - hopefully that's elephant enough
>     (it's one of these majestic, african bulls). I  like  jewels,
>     so that's still there :-)

Way Cool.  (watch out... I'm starting to expect
magic from you *smile* )

It seems that the elephant is 'on top of' the diamond, I
was wondering if it's possible to make it seem like the
elephant is 'inside' of the jewel?  

The opening credits of the pink panther have a 
cloudy jewel where the pink panther sorta emerges
from the cloudy haze inside of the jewel.  I guess
this is what I had dreamed.

I really like the idea of an elephant, but perhaps
it could be made less lifelike, more cartoonish.
Hmm.  That's just a thought.

Wow.  You must have spent forever getting it
to look like that.  

:) Clark

Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:14:08 +0000
Clark Evans <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))

On 25-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
>> I kinda liked the ORDBMS tack'd onto the bottom...
>>
>>
> 
>     Reload!
> 
>     You  wanted  an  elephant  - hopefully that's elephant enough
>     (it's one of these majestic, african bulls). I  like  jewels,
>     so that's still there :-)
> 
>     Haven't  created  the  Powerd  by  ones  now, because I think
>     Powered by isn't the right wording for an elephant logo. What
>     about  "Carried  by"?   I  Think  for  the  small  ones,  the
>     "PostgreSQL" might  move  down  to  make  the  room  for  the
>     "Carried  by"  above.  In that case, there's no room left for
>     the ORDBMS, so I left that out - sorry.

There ya go.  Any luck with the star filter?

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:20:54 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
> Wow.  You must have spent forever getting it
> to look like that.

    1.5 hours including all the test traces :-)

    That's  why  I  still  use  that old, outdated rayshade - I'm
    soooo familiar with it. And it's happy with a vi(1) as  scene
    editor  as  long  as you can keep enough objects in a virtual
    room in mind.

    Well, I can higher the  reflections  of  the  peaces  of  the
    jewel.  Then  it would look more like he's inside. But I have
    to do it in this fashion when running for the little "Carried
    by"  images  because  you wouldn't see the elephant any more.
    All that is easy done,  rayshade's  default  preprocessor  is
    cpp, So it's simply one difference in the commandline options
    and some #ifdef's inside the scene description. And  I  don't
    run it from the commandline - I use make.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:51:40 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
> There ya go.  Any luck with the star filter?
> 
> Vince.

    Not yet - still trying things...


Jan

-- 

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #


Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:52:58 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
> > I kinda liked the ORDBMS tack'd onto the bottom...
> >
> >
> 
>     Reload!
> 
>     You  wanted  an  elephant  - hopefully that's elephant enough
>     (it's one of these majestic, african bulls). I  like  jewels,
>     so that's still there :-)

Sold!!  You've hit it soooooo unbelievably perfectly :)

Can you make the Diamond/Elephant a seperate image easily?  It makes a
*perfect* stand alone logo... :)

>     Haven't  created  the  Powerd  by  ones  now, because I think
>     Powered by isn't the right wording for an elephant logo. What
>     about  "Carried  by"?   I  Think  for  the  small  ones,  the
>     "PostgreSQL" might  move  down  to  make  the  room  for  the
>     "Carried  by"  above.  In that case, there's no room left for
>     the ORDBMS, so I left that out - sorry.

S'alright, I think I can forgive that :)  

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:21:22 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Clark Evans wrote:

> Jan Wieck wrote:
> >     You  wanted  an  elephant  - hopefully that's elephant enough
> >     (it's one of these majestic, african bulls). I  like  jewels,
> >     so that's still there :-)
> 
> Way Cool.  (watch out... I'm starting to expect
> magic from you *smile* )
> 
> It seems that the elephant is 'on top of' the diamond, I
> was wondering if it's possible to make it seem like the
> elephant is 'inside' of the jewel?  
> 
> The opening credits of the pink panther have a 
> cloudy jewel where the pink panther sorta emerges
> from the cloudy haze inside of the jewel.  I guess
> this is what I had dreamed.
> 
> I really like the idea of an elephant, but perhaps
> it could be made less lifelike, more cartoonish.
> Hmm.  That's just a thought.

No no...perfect just as it is!! :)

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:22:10 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> Can you make the Diamond/Elephant a seperate image easily?  It makes a
> *perfect* stand alone logo... :)

    /*  the  characters */ and change the viewpoint - that's all.
    Maybe I have to change some light positions too  to  get  the
    same  reflections  from  the  other viewpoint, but that's not
    that hard to do.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:58:03 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
> > Way Cool.  (watch out... I'm starting to expect
> > magic from you *smile* )

    After all it's still just a bunch of bit's - no magic :-)

> >
> > It seems that the elephant is 'on top of' the diamond, I
> > was wondering if it's possible to make it seem like the
> > elephant is 'inside' of the jewel?

    Done. But personally I prefer the first one.

    What  I  try  to  do  is  to  have the jewel and the elephant
    wheighted equally - mean that noone has the majority  of  the
    entire  symbol.   I can surely cover it up to invisibility in
    the jewel, but that's not the target.

> >
> > The opening credits of the pink panther have a
> > cloudy jewel where the pink panther sorta emerges
> > from the cloudy haze inside of the jewel.  I guess
> > this is what I had dreamed.

    And I understood it that way on first call. But that has some
    problems.   In the case of the pink panther it's a movie, and
    if I remember right the perspective is rotating slowly around
    it. If you have a crystal material with a refractional index,
    a modelled elephant  inside  would  only  become  visible  if
    viewed  nearly  from  the  top. Especially in the case of the
    wanted little powered by logos, because the elephant must  be
    big enough to not to shrink down to 3-4 pixels.  But then you
    don't identify the entire thing any longer as a  jewel,  it's
    just some round crystal, nothing else.

> >
> > I really like the idea of an elephant, but perhaps
> > it could be made less lifelike, more cartoonish.
> > Hmm.  That's just a thought.
>
> No no...perfect just as it is!! :)

    PostgreSQL isn't a joke. It's IMHO closer to the one I choose
    than to flying DUMBO or any other silly one in comic  strips.

    Never underestimate the power of such a majestic creature! So
    never let it look cute and harmless.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 26 Mar 1999 02:10:37 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
> On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:
> 
> > Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > 
> > > I kinda liked the ORDBMS tack'd onto the bottom...
> > >
> > >
> > 
> >     Reload!
> > 
> >     You  wanted  an  elephant  - hopefully that's elephant enough
> >     (it's one of these majestic, african bulls). I  like  jewels,
> >     so that's still there :-)
> 
> Sold!!  You've hit it soooooo unbelievably perfectly :)
> 

I agree also.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:17:00 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))

On 26-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:

>     What  I  try  to  do  is  to  have the jewel and the elephant
>     wheighted equally - mean that noone has the majority  of  the
>     entire  symbol.   I can surely cover it up to invisibility in
>     the jewel, but that's not the target.

Can you make a stand alone diamond with the elephant where the elephant
doesn't look like he has jauntis?  IOW, more like his natural color.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================



Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:32:16 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, you wrote:
>On 26-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>
>>     What  I  try  to  do  is  to  have the jewel and the elephant
>>     wheighted equally - mean that noone has the majority  of  the
>>     entire  symbol.   I can surely cover it up to invisibility in
>>     the jewel, but that's not the target.
>
>Can you make a stand alone diamond with the elephant where the elephant
>doesn't look like he has jauntis?  IOW, more like his natural color.

Where ARE these pictures? I missed a big chunk of list traffic...

Taral

Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:55:59 -0600
Taral <taral@cyberjunkie.com>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))

On 26-Mar-99 Taral wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, you wrote:
>>On 26-Mar-99 Jan Wieck wrote:
>>
>>>     What  I  try  to  do  is  to  have the jewel and the elephant
>>>     wheighted equally - mean that noone has the majority  of  the
>>>     entire  symbol.   I can surely cover it up to invisibility in
>>>     the jewel, but that's not the target.
>>
>>Can you make a stand alone diamond with the elephant where the elephant
>>doesn't look like he has jauntis?  IOW, more like his natural color.
> 
> Where ARE these pictures? I missed a big chunk of list traffic...

http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================



Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:06:26 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, you wrote:
>http://www.postgresql.org/~wieck

Oh, well... put my opinion in. I like:

* the first big logo [pg_banner3.jpg]
* the standalone, but can it be half-size?
* Map #5, but with the pov of the first two. Maybe the magnifying glass can be
tipped?

Taral

Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:17:21 -0600
Taral <taral@cyberjunkie.com>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> > > Way Cool.  (watch out... I'm starting to expect
> > > magic from you *smile* )
> 
>     After all it's still just a bunch of bit's - no magic :-)
> 
> > >
> > > It seems that the elephant is 'on top of' the diamond, I
> > > was wondering if it's possible to make it seem like the
> > > elephant is 'inside' of the jewel?
> 
>     Done. But personally I prefer the first one.

I prefer the original one too...the elephant's "color" looks more healthy
:)  Can we say "jaundice elephant"? :)

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:31:01 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> I prefer the original one too...the elephant's "color" looks more healthy
> :)  Can we say "jaundice elephant"? :)

    I've  removed  that jaundice one and slightly polished up the
    jewel.  There's now a "Carried by" logo too.  And I've  added
    another idea to the whole thing - just take a look.

    If  we  ever choose one of them to be it, I would like to add
    the raytracing sources and the image it  uses  along  with  a
    description  which  tools are required and how to build it to
    the www module of CVS. I think  a  new  directory  ./www/logo
    would be sufficient.

    Not  that  I think many of us could actually do anything with
    them, but just for the case of some accident, another one has
    a chance to take over.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:17:16 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
> > I prefer the original one too...the elephant's "color" looks more healthy
> > :)  Can we say "jaundice elephant"? :)
> 
>     I've  removed  that jaundice one and slightly polished up the
>     jewel.  There's now a "Carried by" logo too.  And I've  added
>     another idea to the whole thing - just take a look.
> 
>     If  we  ever choose one of them to be it, I would like to add
>     the raytracing sources and the image it  uses  along  with  a
>     description  which  tools are required and how to build it to
>     the www module of CVS. I think  a  new  directory  ./www/logo
>     would be sufficient.
> 
>     Not  that  I think many of us could actually do anything with
>     them, but just for the case of some accident, another one has
>     a chance to take over.


I like it.  Can we add color back into the elephant in the jewel?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:59:01 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
Bruce Momjian wrote:

> >     I've  removed  that jaundice one and slightly polished up the
> >     jewel.  There's now a "Carried by" logo too.  And I've  added
> >     another idea to the whole thing - just take a look.
>
> I like it.  Can we add color back into the elephant in the jewel?

    No.  The  golden  one  (actually  it  was more yellow) looked
    really sick, and it's contrast to the jewel was too  low  for
    the "Carried by" size.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:16:25 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
Thus spake Jan Wieck
>     I've  removed  that jaundice one and slightly polished up the
>     jewel.  There's now a "Carried by" logo too.  And I've  added
>     another idea to the whole thing - just take a look.

I know that "Powered by" isn't quite right but "Carried by" doesn't
seem right either.  I understand the elephant reference in "Carried
by" but I bet most people won't get it right off.  How does this
one sound?  "Empowered by."

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net>   |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 424 2871     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.

Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:45:25 -0500 (EST)
"D'Arcy" "J.M." Cain <darcy@druid.net>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:

> Thus spake Jan Wieck
> >     I've  removed  that jaundice one and slightly polished up the
> >     jewel.  There's now a "Carried by" logo too.  And I've  added
> >     another idea to the whole thing - just take a look.
> 
> I know that "Powered by" isn't quite right but "Carried by" doesn't
> seem right either.  I understand the elephant reference in "Carried
> by" but I bet most people won't get it right off.  How does this
> one sound?  "Empowered by."

*groan*  That word and it's derivitives are insanely overused.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
       # include <std/disclaimers.h>                   TEAM-OS2
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
       Online Giftshop Superstore    http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================




Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:55:04 -0500 (EST)
Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:

> Thus spake Jan Wieck
> >     I've  removed  that jaundice one and slightly polished up the
> >     jewel.  There's now a "Carried by" logo too.  And I've  added
> >     another idea to the whole thing - just take a look.
>
> I know that "Powered by" isn't quite right but "Carried by" doesn't
> seem right either.  I understand the elephant reference in "Carried
> by" but I bet most people won't get it right off.  How does this
> one sound?  "Empowered by."

    In  the  context  of computers (and thus any WEB server), the
    word "Power" only reminds me to something measured  in  Volts
    and Amperes. So I just wanted to get rid of it.

    I   really   liked   the   "PostgreSQL  underneath"  for  the
    crocodiles.  But that doesn't fit for an elephant.

    What about these:

        PostgreSQL
        in background

        PostgreSQL
        accelerated

        Supported by
        PostgreSQL

        PostgreSQL
        driven

    Or just without any such wording - why not?


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #



Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:59:34 +0100 (MET)
jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))

Perfect...I like the 'sample home page' you built also...it works for me
without a doubt :)


On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
> > I prefer the original one too...the elephant's "color" looks more healthy
> > :)  Can we say "jaundice elephant"? :)
> 
>     I've  removed  that jaundice one and slightly polished up the
>     jewel.  There's now a "Carried by" logo too.  And I've  added
>     another idea to the whole thing - just take a look.
> 
>     If  we  ever choose one of them to be it, I would like to add
>     the raytracing sources and the image it  uses  along  with  a
>     description  which  tools are required and how to build it to
>     the www module of CVS. I think  a  new  directory  ./www/logo
>     would be sufficient.
> 
>     Not  that  I think many of us could actually do anything with
>     them, but just for the case of some accident, another one has
>     a chance to take over.
> 
> 
> Jan
> 
> --
> 
> #======================================================================#
> # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
> # Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
> #======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #
> 
> 

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:36:32 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> 
> > Thus spake Jan Wieck
> > >     I've  removed  that jaundice one and slightly polished up the
> > >     jewel.  There's now a "Carried by" logo too.  And I've  added
> > >     another idea to the whole thing - just take a look.
> >
> > I know that "Powered by" isn't quite right but "Carried by" doesn't
> > seem right either.  I understand the elephant reference in "Carried
> > by" but I bet most people won't get it right off.  How does this
> > one sound?  "Empowered by."
> 
>     In  the  context  of computers (and thus any WEB server), the
>     word "Power" only reminds me to something measured  in  Volts
>     and Amperes. So I just wanted to get rid of it.
> 
>     I   really   liked   the   "PostgreSQL  underneath"  for  the
>     crocodiles.  But that doesn't fit for an elephant.
> 
>     What about these:
> 
>         PostgreSQL
>         in background
> 
>         PostgreSQL
>         accelerated
> 
>         Supported by
>         PostgreSQL
> 
>         PostgreSQL
>         driven

I'd go more:

	driven by
	PostgreSQL


> 
>     Or just without any such wording - why not?
> 
> 
> Jan
> 
> --
> 
> #======================================================================#
> # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
> # Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
> #======================================== jwieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #
> 
> 

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:37:16 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
>>     What about these:

         PostgreSQL
	 used here!



Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:59:36 +0100 (CET)
Kaare Rasmussen <kar@webline.dk>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > >     I've  removed  that jaundice one and slightly polished up the
> > >     jewel.  There's now a "Carried by" logo too.  And I've  added
> > >     another idea to the whole thing - just take a look.
> >
> > I like it.  Can we add color back into the elephant in the jewel?
> 
>     No.  The  golden  one  (actually  it  was more yellow) looked
>     really sick, and it's contrast to the jewel was too  low  for
>     the "Carried by" size.

Actually, I liked the naturally-colored elephant.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:00:08 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Kaare Rasmussen wrote:

> >>     What about these:
> 
>          PostgreSQL
> 	 used here!

that one works too...

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:48:36 -0400 (AST)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))
Kaare Rasmussen <kar@webline.dk> writes:

> >>     What about these:
> 
>          PostgreSQL
> 	 used here!

Gets my vote.

27 Mar 1999 13:26:59 -0600
Hal Snyder <DrXyzzy@mediaone.net>
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL LOGO (was: Developers Globe (FINAL))