
An interesting problem has been brought to my attention in pg_dump
(V7.0.2+, I think).

It uses the following code to disable triggers prior to a data load:

    UPDATE "pg_class" SET "reltriggers" = 0 WHERE "relname" !~ '^pg_';

which works fine if it is currently connected as a superuser, or as the
datdba. However, if it is connected as anybody else, they will get the error:

    pg_class: Permission denied

The obvious solution is to reconnect as the datdba before running the code.
But that option may not be possible because passwords may be enabled and
the person restoring the database may not know the password for the datdba,
but might have a valid 'superuser' account which they could use instead.

So, how does this sound: add another arg to pg_restore, --superuser=name,
which allows the person restoring the database to specify the superuser
account to use, and if none is specified, then use the account it finds in
the dba field of the database it is restoring to. I would also modify
pg_dump to dump the original datdba, in case a mythical future release does
the 'create database' part as well.

Another option would be to pop up a username prompt as well as the password
prompt when it wants the superuser on a system that requires passwords.

Comments would definitely be appreciated...




----------------------------------------------------------------
Philip Warner                    |     __---_____
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd.   |----/       -  \
(A.C.N. 008 659 498)             |          /(@)   ______---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81         |                 _________  \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82         |                 ___________ |
Http://www.rhyme.com.au          |                /           \|
                                 |    --________--
PGP key available upon request,  |  /
and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371   |/

Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:30:17 +1000
Philip Warner <pjw@rhyme.com.au>
Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump
Philip Warner wrote:
>
> An interesting problem has been brought to my attention in pg_dump
> (V7.0.2+, I think).
>
> It uses the following code to disable triggers prior to a data load:
>
>     UPDATE "pg_class" SET "reltriggers" = 0 WHERE "relname" !~ '^pg_';
>
> which works fine if it is currently connected as a superuser, or as the
> datdba. However, if it is connected as anybody else, they will get the error:
>
>     pg_class: Permission denied
>
> The obvious solution is to reconnect as the datdba before running the code.

    The  above was a rude hack. Introduced because of the lack of
    time when we discovered the problem  during  7.0  BETA  cycle
    (IIRC).  The ovious "solution" is to fix it.

    The clean solution would be to have something like

        ALTER SESSION DISABLE/ENABLE TRIGGERS

    A  global  variable  (like  those for other session settings)
    would cause the trigger manager to suppress their  invocation
    at all.

    The new utility has to check if either the user has ALTER ALL
    TABLES privilege,  or  has  ALTER  TABLE  privilege  for  any
    existing user table where triggers are defined for.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #







































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:52:44 +0200 (MEST)
JanWieck@t-online.de (Jan Wieck)
Re: Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump
At 15:52 25/07/00 +0200, Jan Wieck wrote:
>Philip Warner wrote:
>>
>> An interesting problem has been brought to my attention in pg_dump
>> (V7.0.2+, I think).
>>
>> It uses the following code to disable triggers prior to a data load:
>>
>>     UPDATE "pg_class" SET "reltriggers" = 0 WHERE "relname" !~ '^pg_';
>>
>> which works fine if it is currently connected as a superuser, or as the
>> datdba. However, if it is connected as anybody else, they will get the
error:
>>
>>     pg_class: Permission denied
>>
>> The obvious solution is to reconnect as the datdba before running the code.
>
>    The clean solution would be to have something like
>
>        ALTER SESSION DISABLE/ENABLE TRIGGERS

Unfortunately, I am trying to keep the new pg_dump working with 7.0.2 as
well, so I need a solution for the old hack as well as the new priv model...


But, as far as 7.1 goes, this sounds like the way to go. FWIW, we'd also
want to consider: 

    ALTER SEESION DISABLE CONSTRAINTS etc etc.

plus even,
 
         ALTER TRIGGER <name> on <table> DISABLE 
or       ALTER TABLE <name> DISABLE TRIGGERS
or (to avoid messing with valid DDL),
         ALTER SESSION DISABLE TRIGGER <trig-name>
         ALTER SESSION DISABLE TRIGGERS ON <rel-name>
         ALTER SESSION DISABLE ALL TRIGGERS

>    A  global  variable  (like  those for other session settings)
>    would cause the trigger manager to suppress their  invocation
>    at all.

Maybe it would be best stored on a per-trigger basis.


>    The new utility has to check if either the user has ALTER ALL
>    TABLES privilege,  or  has  ALTER  TABLE  privilege  for  any
>    existing user table where triggers are defined for.

Or maybe 'ALTER' priv on the individual 'TRIGGER' objects...since I would
not necessarily consider a trigger subject to the ALTER TABLE rules.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Philip Warner                    |     __---_____
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd.   |----/       -  \
(A.C.N. 008 659 498)             |          /(@)   ______---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81         |                 _________  \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82         |                 ___________ |
Http://www.rhyme.com.au          |                /           \|
                                 |    --________--
PGP key available upon request,  |  /
and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371   |/

Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:07:06 +1000
Philip Warner <pjw@rhyme.com.au>
Re: Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump
Philip Warner <pjw@rhyme.com.au> writes:
> The obvious solution is to reconnect as the datdba before running the code.
> But that option may not be possible because passwords may be enabled

pg_dump scripts that try to restore ownership have always been
essentially unusable on systems with password authentication, because
it's just not practical to keep entering the passwords for every
\connect (even assuming you know them all).  This trigger hack is just
the tip of the iceberg.

We have talked about ways to solve the real problem.  One way is to
run the entire restore script as superuser, doing something other than
\connect to set ownership of created objects.  You could do that now
with something like
	create table newtable ...
	update pg_class set relowner = xxx where relname = 'newtable';
although it'd be nicer to invent ALTER commands to handle this.

Another issue to think about is that it should be possible to run
restore scripts as a non-superuser, with the restriction that all the
created objects end up being owned by you not by their original owners.
(Compare the behavior of "tar x" when run as superuser or not.)
This has not worked in the past (because those \connect commands can't
be ignored), but it would work with an ALTER-based approach, because
the ALTERs would simply fail.  With a slightly smarter pg_restore,
there'd be an option not to emit the ALTERs in the first place, but
this is inessential.

The thing that really bothers me about this reltriggers hack is that
it doesn't work if the script is being run as non-superuser.  I don't
see why it's necessary anyway; shouldn't the order of operations be
	create table;
	load data;
	create triggers and indexes;
?

> So, how does this sound: add another arg to pg_restore, --superuser=name,
> which allows the person restoring the database to specify the superuser
> account to use, and if none is specified, then use the account it finds in
> the dba field of the database it is restoring to.

I think pg_restore ought to run under the same userid that would be
established for a plain psql session --- ie, -u or $PGUSER or $USER.

> I would also modify
> pg_dump to dump the original datdba, in case a mythical future release does
> the 'create database' part as well.

Uh, how does pg_dumpall enter into this?

			regards, tom lane

Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:17:53 -0400
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump 
At 11:17 25/07/00 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>Philip Warner <pjw@rhyme.com.au> writes:
>> The obvious solution is to reconnect as the datdba before running the code.
>> But that option may not be possible because passwords may be enabled
>
>We have talked about ways to solve the real problem.  One way is to
>run the entire restore script as superuser, doing something other than
>\connect to set ownership of created objects.  You could do that now
>with something like
>	create table newtable ...
>	update pg_class set relowner = xxx where relname = 'newtable';

I considered this, but lack of confidence as to the ramifications of
updating pg_class + the fact that it also requires superuser access, put me
off. But maybe I should put an 'Ownersip' phase in pg_restore (at the end,
obviosly).


>although it'd be nicer to invent ALTER commands to handle this.

I agree, but not for 7.0.2. Doing something as apparently simple might be a
good way for me to see how the process of dealing with a command works from
psql->backend->psql, which is something I'll need for 'insert...returning'.


>Another issue to think about is that it should be possible to run
>restore scripts as a non-superuser, with the restriction that all the
>created objects end up being owned by you not by their original owners.

This was part of the motivation; if a DBA creates a db and can set it's
ownership to the appropriate user, then the user should be able to restore
into it.


>(Compare the behavior of "tar x" when run as superuser or not.)
>This has not worked in the past (because those \connect commands can't
>be ignored), 

I don't follow...do you mean that psql barfs, or do you mean that there has
been no way to prevent them being output?


>but it would work with an ALTER-based approach, because
>the ALTERs would simply fail.  With a slightly smarter pg_restore,
>there'd be an option not to emit the ALTERs in the first place, but
>this is inessential.

--ignore-ownership or similar on pg_restore is about 10 lines of code.


>The thing that really bothers me about this reltriggers hack is that
>it doesn't work if the script is being run as non-superuser.  I don't
>see why it's necessary anyway; shouldn't the order of operations be
>	create table;
>	load data;
>	create triggers and indexes;

Yes, for a full restore that is true. But for a partial restore (where I
have assumed triggers may exist), it's nice to disable the triggers...but
(and this is a horrible idea), pg_restore could use pg_dump to dump the
triggers to a null archive, drop them, then restore them at the end of the
restore op...


>> So, how does this sound: add another arg to pg_restore, --superuser=name,
>> which allows the person restoring the database to specify the superuser
>> account to use, and if none is specified, then use the account it finds in
>> the dba field of the database it is restoring to.
>
>I think pg_restore ought to run under the same userid that would be
>established for a plain psql session --- ie, -u or $PGUSER or $USER.

It does; but with a direct db connection it reconnects appropriately as
each user (with password prompts if necessary). The idea was that for the
reltriggers hack it knows it needs to connect as a superuser, so I could
allow the user to specify a valid one with a known password.


>> I would also modify
>> pg_dump to dump the original datdba, in case a mythical future release does
>> the 'create database' part as well.
>
>Uh, how does pg_dumpall enter into this?

It doesn't really; pg_dumpall inserts text into the output stream and
creates one huge script for restoring all databases. It also messes with
pg_* tables, so I can't really make the two work together. 

The current version of pg_restore that I am working on has a --create (-C)
option which will issue the appropriate 'create database' commands. But
pg_dumpall is unaffected. Sounds like I need to add --ignore-owner.

At *some* point in the future, I'll try to put together a pg_backupall &
pg_restoreall, but that's not really high on my priorities - I tend to
backup DBs individually.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Philip Warner                    |     __---_____
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd.   |----/       -  \
(A.C.N. 008 659 498)             |          /(@)   ______---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81         |                 _________  \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82         |                 ___________ |
Http://www.rhyme.com.au          |                /           \|
                                 |    --________--
PGP key available upon request,  |  /
and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371   |/

Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:43:01 +1000
Philip Warner <pjw@rhyme.com.au>
Re: Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump 
Philip Warner <pjw@rhyme.com.au> writes:
>> (Compare the behavior of "tar x" when run as superuser or not.)
>> This has not worked in the past (because those \connect commands can't
>> be ignored), 

> I don't follow...do you mean that psql barfs, or do you mean that there has
> been no way to prevent them being output?

No, I mean that if they're in the script there is no way to have them
be ignored.  There is a way to prevent them from being output (-z switch
to pg_dump, or some such) but *that puts control at the wrong end of the
process*.  When you make a tarfile you don't have to specify whether it
will be restored with the same file ownerships or not; you determine
that when you do the restore.  pg_dump scripts need the same flexibility.

An additional reason for getting rid of the \connect's is performance;
each one causes a fresh backend startup.  You might also care to
contemplate the implications for per-session variables like the "disable
triggers" switch you were suggesting.

>> The thing that really bothers me about this reltriggers hack is that
>> it doesn't work if the script is being run as non-superuser.  I don't
>> see why it's necessary anyway; shouldn't the order of operations be
>> create table;
>> load data;
>> create triggers and indexes;

> Yes, for a full restore that is true. But for a partial restore (where I
> have assumed triggers may exist), it's nice to disable the triggers...

Why is that nice?  If you are loading more data into an existing table
structure, seems to me the *last* thing you'd want is to disable your
consistency checks.  Too risky --- certainly not something I want
pg_dump doing automatically without my knowledge or consent.

I've forgotten the exact details of the scenario that forced us to put
in the reltriggers hack in the first place, but it may well be that
the problem has a better solution now that pg_dump is smart enough to
reorder its output.  I can see from the CVS logs that Jan put the
trigger change into pg_dump on 7-Feb-2000, but I didn't have much luck
finding any related discussion in the mail archives.  Jan, do you recall
the reasoning for it?

			regards, tom lane

Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:23:26 -0400
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Re: Re: Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump 
> >> The thing that really bothers me about this reltriggers hack is that
> >> it doesn't work if the script is being run as non-superuser.  I don't
> >> see why it's necessary anyway; shouldn't the order of operations be
> >> create table;
> >> load data;
> >> create triggers and indexes;
>
> > Yes, for a full restore that is true. But for a partial restore (where I
> > have assumed triggers may exist), it's nice to disable the triggers...
>
> Why is that nice?  If you are loading more data into an existing table
> structure, seems to me the *last* thing you'd want is to disable your
> consistency checks.  Too risky --- certainly not something I want
> pg_dump doing automatically without my knowledge or consent.
>
> I've forgotten the exact details of the scenario that forced us to put
> in the reltriggers hack in the first place, but it may well be that
> the problem has a better solution now that pg_dump is smart enough to
> reorder its output.  I can see from the CVS logs that Jan put the
> trigger change into pg_dump on 7-Feb-2000, but I didn't have much luck
> finding any related discussion in the mail archives.  Jan, do you recall
> the reasoning for it?

For constraints it's a circular dependency issue.  Unless all of the restore
is being done in a single transaction, you can't put data in a table set
that
is something like table1 references table2 references table1.  With
deferred triggers you can get data sets that cannot be created outside
of a transaction.
If we had drop constraint, we could drop and re-add the constraints
which would at least give an error message if the data failed the
constraint, but is still not a real solution.

In addition, if you're loading a data only dump into a created schema,
you're
asking for trouble if you have triggers anyway, since how does the system
know whether or not a particular trigger's effects are already included in
the
data only dump or not (say, a logging trigger).  Some triggers you want to
run theoretically because they aren't circular dependencies and do
validation
of data.  Other triggers have effects like creating rows that are already in
the data dump and you wouldn't want to run again.



Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:16:13 -0700
"Stephan Szabo" <sszabo@kick.com>
Re: Re: Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump 
Tom Lane wrote:
> >> The thing that really bothers me about this reltriggers hack is that
> >> it doesn't work if the script is being run as non-superuser.  I don't
> >> see why it's necessary anyway; shouldn't the order of operations be
> >> create table;
> >> load data;
> >> create triggers and indexes;
>
> > Yes, for a full restore that is true. But for a partial restore (where I
> > have assumed triggers may exist), it's nice to disable the triggers...
>
> Why is that nice?  If you are loading more data into an existing table
> structure, seems to me the *last* thing you'd want is to disable your
> consistency checks.  Too risky --- certainly not something I want
> pg_dump doing automatically without my knowledge or consent.
>
> I've forgotten the exact details of the scenario that forced us to put
> in the reltriggers hack in the first place, but it may well be that
> the problem has a better solution now that pg_dump is smart enough to
> reorder its output.  I can see from the CVS logs that Jan put the
> trigger change into pg_dump on 7-Feb-2000, but I didn't have much luck
> finding any related discussion in the mail archives.  Jan, do you recall
> the reasoning for it?

    It was for data-only dumps. Someone might have a schema, that
    doesn't dump  well.  So  he  keeps  his  schema  creation  in
    separate,  hand  maintained  SQL  scripts and takes data-only
    dumps.

    On a restore, his schema scripts would already create all the
    constraints, triggers and the like. Now the restore loads the
    data, table by table.  But circular  dependencies  will  fail
    all  the  way.  And  triggers might modify other tables (COPY
    invokes triggers), but these derived actions are already part
    of  the dumped data. So it'll not do any good. At least it'll
    not restore the database to the same content it had  at  dump
    time.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #

































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:57:49 +0200 (MEST)
JanWieck@t-online.de (Jan Wieck)
Re: Re: Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump
Tom Lane writes:

> We have talked about ways to solve the real problem.  One way is to
> run the entire restore script as superuser, doing something other than
> \connect to set ownership of created objects.  You could do that now
> with something like
> 	create table newtable ...
> 	update pg_class set relowner = xxx where relname = 'newtable';
> although it'd be nicer to invent ALTER commands to handle this.

And this is what good ol' SQL has in store for us:

CREATE SCHEMA AUTHORIZATION "username"
  CREATE TABLE t1 (...)
  CREATE TABLE t2 (...)
;


-- 
Peter Eisentraut                  Sernanders vï¿½g 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net                   75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/            Sweden


Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:40:25 +0200 (CEST)
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
Re: Re: Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump 
At 12:23 25/07/00 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>Philip Warner <pjw@rhyme.com.au> writes:
>>> (Compare the behavior of "tar x" when run as superuser or not.)
>>> This has not worked in the past (because those \connect commands can't
>>> be ignored), 
>
>> I don't follow...do you mean that psql barfs, or do you mean that there has
>> been no way to prevent them being output?
>
>No, I mean that if they're in the script there is no way to have them
>be ignored.  There is a way to prevent them from being output (-z switch
>to pg_dump, or some such) but *that puts control at the wrong end of the
>process*.  When you make a tarfile you don't have to specify whether it
>will be restored with the same file ownerships or not; you determine
>that when you do the restore.  pg_dump scripts need the same flexibility.

OK, so adding '--no-owner, -O(?)' on pg_restore is probably worth doing.


>An additional reason for getting rid of the \connect's is performance;
>each one causes a fresh backend startup.  You might also care to
>contemplate the implications for per-session variables like the "disable
>triggers" switch you were suggesting.

Yes good point; per-session probably is better than updating reltriggers,
but I'd argue that a restore operation (even a partial one) should not be
done while the DB is online anyway.


>>> The thing that really bothers me about this reltriggers hack is that
>>> it doesn't work if the script is being run as non-superuser.  I don't
>>> see why it's necessary anyway; shouldn't the order of operations be
>>> create table;
>>> load data;
>>> create triggers and indexes;
>
>> Yes, for a full restore that is true. But for a partial restore (where I
>> have assumed triggers may exist), it's nice to disable the triggers...
>
>Why is that nice?  If you are loading more data into an existing table
>structure, seems to me the *last* thing you'd want is to disable your
>consistency checks.  Too risky --- certainly not something I want
>pg_dump doing automatically without my knowledge or consent.

But, but, but...that's the default behaviour in 7.0.2. I can probably
safely change the default behaviour in pg_restore, but are you also
suggesting I do it for pg_dump as well.


>I've forgotten the exact details of the scenario that forced us to put
>in the reltriggers hack in the first place, but it may well be that
>the problem has a better solution now that pg_dump is smart enough to
>reorder its output.  I can see from the CVS logs that Jan put the
>trigger change into pg_dump on 7-Feb-2000, but I didn't have much luck
>finding any related discussion in the mail archives.  Jan, do you recall
>the reasoning for it?

 From Jan's subsequent email, this is because of RI triggers. 

How does this sound as a plan:

1. Add --no-owner to pg_restore & pg_dump (both versions)

This will use the current uid to build the entire database. The will affect
pg_restore as well as plain text output from pg_dump.


2. Add --superuser[=<name>], -S to pg_restore & pg_dump (both versions)

If restoring directly to a db, then pg_restore will check if the current
uid has superuser, and if so, will run as though --superuser=<current-uid>
were specified (unless another name was already specified).

Without --superuser it will NOT DISABLE TRIGGERS, and will issue a warning
to that effect (since it can't anyway).

With --superuser specified (or defaulted), it will issue '\connect -
<superuser>' before disabling triggers, then reconnect as the previous user
afterwards.

If and when 'SET SESSION CONSTRAINTS DISABLED' & 'SET SESSION TRIGGERS
DISABLED' comes along, the code for disabling triggers can be modified
appropriately. 

I'm not too worried about the cost of reconnecting; it is not is any where
near as great as the cost of actually restoring the data for any big DB, I
think.


Does this sound like a reasonable approach?


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Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:43:43 +1000
Philip Warner <pjw@rhyme.com.au>
Re: Re: Problem with disabling triggers in pg_dump 