
I am trying to use cvsup to get the latest but keep failing as follows:

leslie:~$ cvsup sup.pgsql
Connected to postgresql.org
Updater failed: Premature EOF from server
Will retry at 04:40:54


Here is my sup file

*default release=cvs
*default prefix=/cvs
*default backup compress use-rel-suffix

pgsql   host=postgresql.org base=/cvs/pgsql delete 


Any thoughts?
-dg

David Gould            dg@illustra.com           510.628.3783 or 510.305.9468 
Informix Software  (No, really)         300 Lakeside Drive  Oakland, CA 94612
"(Windows NT) version 5.0 will build on a proven system architecture
 and incorporate tens of thousands of bug fixes from version 4.0."
                 -- <http://www.microsoft.com/y2k.asp?A=7&B=5>

Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
dg@illustra.com (David Gould)
CVSup help??
> *default release=cvs
> *default prefix=/cvs
> *default backup compress use-rel-suffix
> 
> pgsql   host=postgresql.org base=/cvs/pgsql delete

I haven't seen any problems recently. My CVSup file follows...

                   - Tom

# This file represents the standard CVSup distribution file
# for the PostgreSQL ORDBMS project
# Modified by lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu 1997-08-28
# - Point to my local snapshot source tree
#
# Defaults that apply to all the collections
*default host=postgresql.org
*default compress
*default release=cvs
*default delete use-rel-suffix
#*default tag=.
#*default tag=cvs
#*default date=97.08.29.00.00.00

# base directory points to where CVSup will store its 'bookmarks'
file(s)
# will create subdirectory sup/
*default base=/opt/postgres # /usr/local/pgsql

# prefix directory points to where CVSup will store the actual
distribution(s)
*default prefix=/opt/postgres/cvs # /usr/local/pgsql

# complete distribution, including all below
pgsql

# individual distributions vs 'the whole thing'
# pgsql-doc
# pgsql-perl5
# pgsql-src

Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:02:14 +0000
"Thomas G. Lockhart" <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, David Gould wrote:

> 
> I am trying to use cvsup to get the latest but keep failing as follows:
> 
> leslie:~$ cvsup sup.pgsql
> Connected to postgresql.org
> Updater failed: Premature EOF from server
> Will retry at 04:40:54
> 
> 
> Here is my sup file
> 
> *default release=cvs
> *default prefix=/cvs
> *default backup compress use-rel-suffix
> 
> pgsql   host=postgresql.org base=/cvs/pgsql delete 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts?

Hrmmm...you have no 'tag=.' line, for starters...that's the only thing
that jumps out at me though...

Just tested the server from here, and all appears to be well with the
server...just removed the 'tag=.' line that I have in mine, and that's
right too...just pulls down the CVS/RCS files directly ...

Anyone else havign similar problems?




Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:13:57 -0400 (EDT)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
> On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, David Gould wrote:
> > 
> > I am trying to use cvsup to get the latest but keep failing as follows:
> > 
> > leslie:~$ cvsup sup.pgsql
> > Connected to postgresql.org
> > Updater failed: Premature EOF from server
> > Will retry at 04:40:54
> > 
> > 
> > Here is my sup file
> > 
> > *default release=cvs
> > *default prefix=/cvs
> > *default backup compress use-rel-suffix
> > 
> > pgsql   host=postgresql.org base=/cvs/pgsql delete 
> > 
> > 
> > Any thoughts?
> 
> Hrmmm...you have no 'tag=.' line, for starters...that's the only thing
> that jumps out at me though...

That is what I meant to do. I want the CVS files.
 
> Just tested the server from here, and all appears to be well with the
> server...just removed the 'tag=.' line that I have in mine, and that's
> right too...just pulls down the CVS/RCS files directly ...

So the missing tag=. line is not the problem?
 
> Anyone else havign similar problems?

I have tried this several times on two different evenings. Is there a time
window? Or is there a maximum connection count?

Any thoughts on how to debug this thing?

thanks
-dg

David Gould            dg@illustra.com           510.628.3783 or 510.305.9468 
Informix Software  (No, really)         300 Lakeside Drive  Oakland, CA 94612
"(Windows NT) version 5.0 will build on a proven system architecture
 and incorporate tens of thousands of bug fixes from version 4.0."
                 -- <http://www.microsoft.com/y2k.asp?A=7&B=5>

Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:47:07 -0700 (PDT)
dg@illustra.com (David Gould)
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, David Gould wrote:

> > Just tested the server from here, and all appears to be well with the
> > server...just removed the 'tag=.' line that I have in mine, and that's
> > right too...just pulls down the CVS/RCS files directly ...
> 
> So the missing tag=. line is not the problem?

	Nope, that one is correct...

> > Anyone else havign similar problems?
> 
> I have tried this several times on two different evenings. Is there a time
> window? Or is there a maximum connection count?

	5, but I don't think its ever hit that max, and I know the error
message is different then that if it had...I get it all the time at
FreeBSD :(

> Any thoughts on how to debug this thing?

	This is under Linux, correct?  Do you have anything like 'truss'
or 'ktrace' that you can figure out where in the code its dying?



Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:50:23 -0400 (EDT)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
Sometimes I just delete the whole thing and re-cvsup.  Just an idea.

> 
> > On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, David Gould wrote:
> > > 
> > > I am trying to use cvsup to get the latest but keep failing as follows:
> > > 
> > > leslie:~$ cvsup sup.pgsql
> > > Connected to postgresql.org
> > > Updater failed: Premature EOF from server
> > > Will retry at 04:40:54  


-- 
Bruce Momjian                          |  830 Blythe Avenue
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us              |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  (610) 353-9879(w)
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  (610) 853-3000(h)

Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:09:18 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> writes:

> This is under Linux, correct?  Do you have anything like 'truss' or
> 'ktrace' that you can figure out where in the code its dying?

I've been using cvsup without incident for a few weeks on Linux (RH5),
to get the CVS files.  The relevant Linux command is strace.

29 Apr 1998 20:18:13 +0100
Bruce Stephens <bruce@cenderis.demon.co.uk>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, David Gould wrote:
> 
> > > Just tested the server from here, and all appears to be well with the
> > > server...just removed the 'tag=.' line that I have in mine, and that's
> > > right too...just pulls down the CVS/RCS files directly ...
> > 
> > So the missing tag=. line is not the problem?
> 
> 	Nope, that one is correct...
> 
> > > Anyone else havign similar problems?
> > 
> > I have tried this several times on two different evenings. Is there a time
> > window? Or is there a maximum connection count?
> 
> 	5, but I don't think its ever hit that max, and I know the error
> message is different then that if it had...I get it all the time at
> FreeBSD :(
> 
> > Any thoughts on how to debug this thing?
> 
> 	This is under Linux, correct?  Do you have anything like 'truss'
> or 'ktrace' that you can figure out where in the code its dying?
> 

Of course, Linux has everything ;-)

In this case it is strace. I will try it tonight. Although, the message
kinda implies that the server end is refusing or dropping the connection.

-dg


David Gould            dg@illustra.com           510.628.3783 or 510.305.9468 
Informix Software  (No, really)         300 Lakeside Drive  Oakland, CA 94612
"(Windows NT) version 5.0 will build on a proven system architecture
 and incorporate tens of thousands of bug fixes from version 4.0."
                 -- <http://www.microsoft.com/y2k.asp?A=7&B=5>

Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:38:05 -0700 (PDT)
dg@illustra.com (David Gould)
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
> On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, David Gould wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I am trying to use cvsup to get the latest but keep failing as follows:
> > 
> > leslie:~$ cvsup sup.pgsql
> > Connected to postgresql.org
> > Updater failed: Premature EOF from server
> > Will retry at 04:40:54
> > 
> > 
> > Here is my sup file
> > 
> > *default release=cvs
> > *default prefix=/cvs
> > *default backup compress use-rel-suffix
> > 
> > pgsql   host=postgresql.org base=/cvs/pgsql delete 
> > 
> > 
> > Any thoughts?
> 

I ran strace on it. Here is the relevant dialog. It looks like the server
just hangs up on me. Is there a log file on the server that might indicate
why?

--------------
connect(4, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(5999), sin_addr=inet_addr("209.47.148.214")}, 16) = 0

write(1, "Connected to postgresql.org\n", 28Connected to postgresql.org
) = 28


read(4, "OK 15 4 REL_15_2 CVSup server re"..., 8192) = 36
write(4, "PROTO 15 4 REL_15_2\n", 20)   = 20

write(4, "USER ? leslie.illustra.com\n", 27) = 27
read(4, "OK\n", 8192)                   = 3

write(4, "ATTR 6\n0\ne7\ne1\nf1\nf1\n9\n.\n"..., 25) = 25
read(4, "ATTR 6\n0\ne7\ne1\nf1\nf1\n9\n.\n"..., 8192) = 25

write(4, "COLL pgsql cvs 2 66499\n.\n.\n", 27) = 27
read(4, "COLL pgsql cvs 66499\nPRFX /usr/"..., 8192) = 49

bind(5, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(0), sin_addr=inet_addr("158.58.56.127")}, 16) = 0
listen(5, 8)                            = 0
write(4, "PORT 158 58 56 127 5814\n", 24) = 24

accept(5, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(47873), sin_addr=inet_addr("24.0.0.0")}, [16]) = 6
close(5)                                = 0

write(4, "COLL pgsql cvs\n", 15)        = 15
write(4, "x\1\322\343\2\10", 6)         = 6
write(4, "0\0\0h\0009", 6)              = 6
write(4, ".\n", 2)                      = 2

read(6, 0x819400c, 8192)                = -1 ECONNRESET (Connection reset by peer)


write(1, "Updater failed: Premature EOF fr"..., 42Updater failed: Premature EOF from server
) = 42
----------------

Thanks
-dg


David Gould           dg@illustra.com            510.628.3783 or 510.305.9468
Informix Software                      300 Lakeside Drive   Oakland, CA 94612
 - A child of five could understand this!  Fetch me a child of five.


Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:53:45 -0700 (PDT)
dg@illustra.com (David Gould)
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??

Here is what the log file shows for illustra:

# grep illustra !$
grep illustra cvsupd
Apr 27 03:36:14 hub cvsupd[15904]: +757 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
(leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
Apr 27 04:09:33 hub cvsupd[20474]: +759 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
(leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
Apr 29 01:36:58 hub cvsupd[1662]: +832 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
(leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
Apr 30 04:18:19 hub cvsupd[2873]: +866 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
(leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
Apr 30 04:18:34 hub cvsupd[2990]: +867 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
(leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
Apr 30 04:20:34 hub cvsupd[4246]: +868 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
(leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
Apr 30 23:09:27 hub cvsupd[9460]: +891 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
(leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]

Not sure why the ?@ifmxoak though...everyone else appears to have a proper
userid in there...

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, David Gould wrote:

> 
> I ran strace on it. Here is the relevant dialog. It looks like the server
> just hangs up on me. Is there a log file on the server that might indicate
> why?
> 
> --------------
> connect(4, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(5999), sin_addr=inet_addr("209.47.148.214")}, 16) = 0
> 
> write(1, "Connected to postgresql.org\n", 28Connected to postgresql.org
> ) = 28
> 
> 
> read(4, "OK 15 4 REL_15_2 CVSup server re"..., 8192) = 36
> write(4, "PROTO 15 4 REL_15_2\n", 20)   = 20
> 
> write(4, "USER ? leslie.illustra.com\n", 27) = 27
> read(4, "OK\n", 8192)                   = 3
> 
> write(4, "ATTR 6\n0\ne7\ne1\nf1\nf1\n9\n.\n"..., 25) = 25
> read(4, "ATTR 6\n0\ne7\ne1\nf1\nf1\n9\n.\n"..., 8192) = 25
> 
> write(4, "COLL pgsql cvs 2 66499\n.\n.\n", 27) = 27
> read(4, "COLL pgsql cvs 66499\nPRFX /usr/"..., 8192) = 49
> 
> bind(5, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(0), sin_addr=inet_addr("158.58.56.127")}, 16) = 0
> listen(5, 8)                            = 0
> write(4, "PORT 158 58 56 127 5814\n", 24) = 24
> 
> accept(5, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(47873), sin_addr=inet_addr("24.0.0.0")}, [16]) = 6
> close(5)                                = 0
> 
> write(4, "COLL pgsql cvs\n", 15)        = 15
> write(4, "x\1\322\343\2\10", 6)         = 6
> write(4, "0\0\0h\0009", 6)              = 6
> write(4, ".\n", 2)                      = 2
> 
> read(6, 0x819400c, 8192)                = -1 ECONNRESET (Connection reset by peer)
> 
> 
> write(1, "Updater failed: Premature EOF fr"..., 42Updater failed: Premature EOF from server
> ) = 42
> ----------------
> 

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Fri, 1 May 1998 01:00:49 -0300 (ADT)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
> 
> Here is what the log file shows for illustra:
> 
> # grep illustra !$
> grep illustra cvsupd
> Apr 27 03:36:14 hub cvsupd[15904]: +757 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> Apr 27 04:09:33 hub cvsupd[20474]: +759 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> Apr 29 01:36:58 hub cvsupd[1662]: +832 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> Apr 30 04:18:19 hub cvsupd[2873]: +866 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> Apr 30 04:18:34 hub cvsupd[2990]: +867 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> Apr 30 04:20:34 hub cvsupd[4246]: +868 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> Apr 30 23:09:27 hub cvsupd[9460]: +891 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> 
> Not sure why the ?@ifmxoak though...everyone else appears to have a proper
> userid in there...
> 
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, David Gould wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I ran strace on it. Here is the relevant dialog. It looks like the server
> > just hangs up on me. Is there a log file on the server that might indicate
> > why?
> > 
> > --------------
> > connect(4, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(5999), sin_addr=inet_addr("209.47.148.214")}, 16) = 0
> > 
> > write(1, "Connected to postgresql.org\n", 28Connected to postgresql.org
> > ) = 28
> > 
> > 
> > read(4, "OK 15 4 REL_15_2 CVSup server re"..., 8192) = 36
> > write(4, "PROTO 15 4 REL_15_2\n", 20)   = 20
> > 
> > write(4, "USER ? leslie.illustra.com\n", 27) = 27
> > read(4, "OK\n", 8192)                   = 3
> > 
> > write(4, "ATTR 6\n0\ne7\ne1\nf1\nf1\n9\n.\n"..., 25) = 25
> > read(4, "ATTR 6\n0\ne7\ne1\nf1\nf1\n9\n.\n"..., 8192) = 25
> > 
> > write(4, "COLL pgsql cvs 2 66499\n.\n.\n", 27) = 27
> > read(4, "COLL pgsql cvs 66499\nPRFX /usr/"..., 8192) = 49
> > 
> > bind(5, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(0), sin_addr=inet_addr("158.58.56.127")}, 16) = 0
> > listen(5, 8)                            = 0
> > write(4, "PORT 158 58 56 127 5814\n", 24) = 24
> > 
> > accept(5, {sin_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(47873), sin_addr=inet_addr("24.0.0.0")}, [16]) = 6
> > close(5)                                = 0
> > 
> > write(4, "COLL pgsql cvs\n", 15)        = 15
> > write(4, "x\1\322\343\2\10", 6)         = 6
> > write(4, "0\0\0h\0009", 6)              = 6
> > write(4, ".\n", 2)                      = 2
> > 
> > read(6, 0x819400c, 8192)                = -1 ECONNRESET (Connection reset by peer)
> > 
> > 
> > write(1, "Updater failed: Premature EOF fr"..., 42Updater failed: Premature EOF from server
> > ) = 42
> > ----------------

Ok, I think I start to understand.

open("/var/run/utmp", O_RDONLY)         = 5
read(5, "\10\0\0\0\4\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 56) = 56
read(5, "\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 56) = 56
... a bunch more reads from /var/run/utmp
read(5, "\\\361\377\277\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 56) = 40
close(5)                                = 0
uname({sys="Linux", node="leslie.illustra.com", ...}) = 0
write(4, "USER ? leslie.illustra.com\n", 27) = 27

So you get the user '?' cause that is what cvsup sent after reading through
my /var/tmp/utmp.

I am using the staticly linked cvsup client on a glibc (RH 5) linux system.
I tried the dynamic linked one and it had real problems loading shared libs
even though I have an old libc5 available.

So, my guess is that the staticly linked libc in cvsup is not understanding
the format of utmp on a glibc system. Hence, it cannot figure out my user
name to send to your server, hence your server pulls the plug on me.

Any idea on how to get a glibc version of cvsup? Or should I just go to
the DEC Moduala-3 site and install all that (I am told this is a bit of
a production) and then try to get the source for cvsup and build it?

Thanks

-dg

David Gould           dg@illustra.com            510.628.3783 or 510.305.9468
Informix Software                      300 Lakeside Drive   Oakland, CA 94612
 - A child of five could understand this!  Fetch me a child of five.

Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
dg@illustra.com (David Gould)
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, David Gould wrote:

> Any idea on how to get a glibc version of cvsup? Or should I just go to
> the DEC Moduala-3 site and install all that (I am told this is a bit of
> a production) and then try to get the source for cvsup and build it?

	That's about it...:(

Marc G. Fournier                                
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 


Fri, 1 May 1998 01:28:34 -0300 (ADT)
The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
> I am using the staticly linked cvsup client on a glibc (RH 5) linux system.
> I tried the dynamic linked one and it had real problems loading shared libs
> even though I have an old libc5 available.

Good debug job, and glad the problem is now understood.

> 
> So, my guess is that the staticly linked libc in cvsup is not understanding
> the format of utmp on a glibc system. Hence, it cannot figure out my user
> name to send to your server, hence your server pulls the plug on me.
> 
> Any idea on how to get a glibc version of cvsup? Or should I just go to
> the DEC Moduala-3 site and install all that (I am told this is a bit of
> a production) and then try to get the source for cvsup and build it?



-- 
Bruce Momjian                          |  830 Blythe Avenue
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us              |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  (610) 353-9879(w)
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  (610) 853-3000(h)

Fri, 1 May 1998 00:36:34 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
Hi,

This is my last mail before leaving on a 5-day trip, so I'm not sure
I can be of much help right away.

> > write(4, "COLL pgsql cvs\n", 15)        = 15
> > write(4, "x\1\322\343\2\10", 6)         = 6
> > write(4, "0\0\0h\0009", 6)              = 6
> > write(4, ".\n", 2)                      = 2

It'll be easier to debug if you turn off compression.  Then
everything will be readable by mortals.

> # grep illustra !$
> grep illustra cvsupd
> Apr 27 03:36:14 hub cvsupd[15904]: +757 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> Apr 27 04:09:33 hub cvsupd[20474]: +759 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> Apr 29 01:36:58 hub cvsupd[1662]: +832 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]
> Apr 30 04:18:19 hub cvsupd[2873]: +866 ?@ifmxoak.illustra.com
> (leslie.illustra.com) [REL_15_2/15.4]

What did the logs say for the process terminations?  Look for lines
with "-757", "-759", "-832", "-866", and so forth.
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:00:15 -0700
John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help?? 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This is my last mail before leaving on a 5-day trip, so I'm not sure
> I can be of much help right away.
> 
> > > write(4, "COLL pgsql cvs\n", 15)        = 15
> > > write(4, "x\1\322\343\2\10", 6)         = 6
> > > write(4, "0\0\0h\0009", 6)              = 6
> > > write(4, ".\n", 2)                      = 2
> 
> It'll be easier to debug if you turn off compression.  Then
> everything will be readable by mortals.

The relevant part of the dialog w/o compression (cvsup -Z) is:

write(4, "COLL pgsql cvs\n", 15)        = 15
write(4, ".\n", 2)                      = 2
write(4, ".\n", 2)                      = 2

So I think the compression was just sending some sort of header for its
own use.

Btw, are you the cvsup maintainer (author (guru (god)))?

-dg


Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:25:57 -0700 (PDT)
dg@illustra.com (David Gould)
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help??
> Btw, are you the cvsup maintainer (author (guru (god)))?

Yes (yes (maybe (no))). ;-)

I'm not clear on whether this problem has been solved or not.  If it
hasn't, I'd be happy to help you with it when I get back from my trip.

John
--
   John Polstra                                       jdp@polstra.com
   John D. Polstra & Co., Inc.                Seattle, Washington USA
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."                 -- John Barth

Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:30:34 -0700
John Polstra <jdp@polstra.com>
Re: [HACKERS] CVSup help?? 