Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:28:47 -0700
Don Baccus <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
SAP-DB
On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Don Baccus wrote:
> I humbly suggest you don't write them off quite so quickly.
> 
> SAP is, after all, a very successful company.

So is Microsoft.

I got the between the lines part of Bruce's post and agree with him.

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| winter@jurai.net |       2 x '84 Volvo 245DL        | ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter |  For Great Justice!  | ISO8802.5 4ever |


Sun, 29 Apr 2001 00:40:43 -0400 (EDT)
"Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
Re: SAP-DB
Don Baccus wrote:
> 
> Hi guys,
> >
> > I've used the open source SAPDB and the performance is pretty damned
> > impressive. However, 'open source' in application to it is somewhat
> > deceptive, since you have to make it with SAP's proprietary build
> > tools/environment.
> >
> > In my opinion, however, it would be worth closely auditing SAP DB to see
> > what postgres can learn.
> 
> I downloaded it. The directories are two characters in length, the
> files are numbers, and it is a mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal. Need
> I say more. :-)
> 
> I swore I'd never post to the hackers list again, but this is an amazing
> statement by Bruce.
> 
> Boy, the robustness of the software is determined by the number of characters
> in the directory name?
> 
> By the languages used?

[Snip]

My guess is that Bruce was implying that the code was obfuscated. It is a
common trick for closed source to be "open" but not really.

I don't think it was any sort of technology snobbery. Far be it for me to
suggest an explanation to the words of others, that is just how I read it.


-- 
I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws.
------------------------
http://www.mohawksoft.com

Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:12:08 -0400
mlw <markw@mohawksoft.com>
Re: SAP-DB
> > I swore I'd never post to the hackers list again, but this is an amazing
> > statement by Bruce.
> > 
> > Boy, the robustness of the software is determined by the number of characters
> > in the directory name?
> > 
> > By the languages used?
> 
> [Snip]
> 
> My guess is that Bruce was implying that the code was obfuscated. It is a
> common trick for closed source to be "open" but not really.
> 
> I don't think it was any sort of technology snobbery. Far be it for me to
> suggest an explanation to the words of others, that is just how I read it.

I don't think they intentionally confused the code.

The real problem I see in that it was very hard for me to find anything
in the code.  I would be interested to see if others can find stuff.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:32:21 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: Re: SAP-DB
> Have you considered that the development tools may
> 
> be abstracting out the directory names in their development 
> environment?

I never considered this, but it makes sense.  I didn't try the
development tools and went right to the code.  I did find a web site
that described the two-letter directory names and their meanings so I
thought that was all there was.  Seems their development tools make the
code more understandable.  Has anyone tried it?

> I humbly suggest you don't write them off quite so quickly.

I never wrote them off.  I just couldn't figure any of it out.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

Sun, 29 Apr 2001 13:37:20 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Re: SAP-DB
* Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> [010429 10:44] wrote:
> > > I swore I'd never post to the hackers list again, but this is an amazing
> > > statement by Bruce.
> > > 
> > > Boy, the robustness of the software is determined by the number of characters
> > > in the directory name?
> > > 
> > > By the languages used?
> > 
> > [Snip]
> > 
> > My guess is that Bruce was implying that the code was obfuscated. It is a
> > common trick for closed source to be "open" but not really.
> > 
> > I don't think it was any sort of technology snobbery. Far be it for me to
> > suggest an explanation to the words of others, that is just how I read it.
> 
> I don't think they intentionally confused the code.
> 
> The real problem I see in that it was very hard for me to find anything
> in the code.  I would be interested to see if others can find stuff.

I think this is general problem in a lot of projects, you open up
foo.c and say... "what the heck is this..." after a few hours of
studying the source you finally figure out is something that does
miniscule part X of massive part Y and by then you're too engrossed
to write a little banner for the file or dir explaining what it's
for and incorrectly assume that even if you did, it wouldn't help
that user unless he went through the same painful steps that you
did.

Been there, done that.. er, actually, still there, mostly still
doing that.  :)

-- 
-Alfred Perlstein - [alfred@freebsd.org]
http://www.egr.unlv.edu/~slumos/on-netbsd.html

Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:49:11 -0700
Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net>
Re: Re: SAP-DB