> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql@mohawksoft.com [mailto:pgsql@mohawksoft.com] 
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 2:41 PM
> To: Dann Corbit
> Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org; PostgreSQL Win32 port list
> Subject: RE: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [HACKERS] Tablespaces
[snip]
> Microsoft has harmed the computing industry more than any 
> single factor that I can remember. I've seen a lot of it, 
> from DEC to Wang, and microsoft has single handedly wiped out 
> more computing innovation in 20 years than any 10 other companies.
> 
> Stac, Go Computing, Netscape, BeOS, and the list grows for as 
> long as you think about it.

Netscape and BeOS are still around.  I think Linux is a bigger blow to
BeOS than MS.
Stak was unbelievable and MS got a tap on the wrist compared to the harm
caused.
I will have to look up Go Computing to see what all that is about.
 
> It isn't wide eyes passion, I've programed computers since jr 
> high school, on a PDP-8/e. It is what I love to do, and it is 
> what I make my living doing.
> 
> Some things are important in life. Spending a few extra 
> dollars *NOT* going to Walmart is one small thing you can do 
> to improve the world. Taking advantage of every LEGITIMATE 
> opportunity to move a person or project off Windows is one 
> small step one can do to improve our industry.

If they are moved to another platform for their benefit or for the right
reasons there is nothing wrong with it.  If it is because of your own
ideology and not for the benefit of the client then it is harm to them
and immoral.  IMO-YMMV

> > Maybe the thread should go to some advocacy channel at this point.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> >
> > My reason for jumping in was to show that:
> > 1.  PostgreSQL will have a exponential leap in possible 
> sites when it 
> > opens up to Win32 systems 2.  There will be huge installations on 
> > Win32 systems, like it or not.
> >
> > Some other things to keep in mind:
> > 1.  The average Windows user is far, far less computer saavy than a 
> > Linux (or other flavor of UNIX user) and hence, there will be a big 
> > load of "deer in the headlights" users coming on board.
> 
> Total koolaid induced delusion. Dumb users are dumb users, 
> "deer in the headlights" looks come from flashing VCR clocks. 
> Competent professionals can handle a few twists. The switch 
> from DOS Windows (3x,9x,ME) to XP was just as traumatic.

You are totally wrong about that.  'Dumb users' are people who don't
care to become computer saavy.  Often because they don't need to.
Someone who can't program their VCR may be able to do brain surgery on
you.  Like Will Rogers said, "Everyone is ignorant, only in different
areas."  If people don't want to become computer experts, we should not
try to force them to become so.  You and I enjoy computers but other
people just want what the computer can deliver and don't care to learn
how it got there.
 
> > 2.  On the plus side, there are millions of good developers 
> familiar 
> > with Windows.  Some of these may become involved with the 
> PostgreSQL 
> > project and give added value.
> 
> Having been a Windows developer since version 1.03, with DOS 
> and CP/M before that, I can say with complete authority that 
> most Windows developers are not "good." The worst I've seen 
> is Charles Petzold, and he sets the bar.

Charles Petzold is a decent programmer.  I have read his books and he
knows what he's talking about.  He no W. Richard Stevens or Donald
Knuth, but I would hire him to do a job.

Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:29:28 -0700
"Dann Corbit" <DCorbit@connx.com>
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] Tablespaces

>>
>> Having been a Windows developer since version 1.03, with DOS
>> and CP/M before that, I can say with complete authority that
>> most Windows developers are not "good." The worst I've seen
>> is Charles Petzold, and he sets the bar.
>
> Charles Petzold is a decent programmer.  I have read his books and he
> knows what he's talking about.  He no W. Richard Stevens or Donald
> Knuth, but I would hire him to do a job.
>

Funny story. In Windows 2.x days, a bug was found in Petzolds calculator
example having to do with the stupid way Win16 dealt with various aspects
of Window properties such as hMenu. When I read the book, I had been
programming in Windows 1.x and early 2.x, and thought to myself, "that's
not right."

Well, it turns out that it was a bug that broke a lot of Windows program
when Win 3.0 came out in standard mode.

Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:24:44 -0400 (EDT)
pgsql@mohawksoft.com
Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] Tablespaces