The biggest bone of contention between the advocates of the 'modern' orthographies and the 'traditionalist' orthographies is the use of "w" and "y" to show the semi-vowels. In general native speakers in literacy classes seem to find "y" and "w" very difficult to learn, and that "u" and "i" are the 'logical' letters to use. Syllabification of words by untrained speakers suggests that "u" and "i" are really the underlying sounds. Thus, a word like "dhaudhai"/"dhawdhay" 'mainland, continent' syllabifies as "dha-u-dha-i", not "dhau-dhai". In songs, the glide-"u"/"i" can also be given full syllable status. Historical considerations also point to the semi-vowels often being vocalic rather than consonantal. Thus, "lagau", the genitive of "laag" 'place' is in underlying form <laaga+ngu>; the full form of the genitive ending "-ngu" is only retained where the nominal has a monosyllabic stem (see the section on Nominal Morphology). Similarly, verbal nouns end in "-i", e.g. "lumai", stem "luuma-" 'search, look for, seek, hunt'. The mid-19th century to early 20th century records of Kauaraigau Ya show that the verbal noun ending was previously "-ri" (thus "lumari"), where the "-r-" was presumably the rhotic glide rather than the rhotic tap/trill.