The "object" of wu wei "skill-knowledge" is the Way, which is – to an extent regardless of school – "embodying" the mind to a "normative order existing independently of the minds of the practitioners". The primary example of Confucianism – Confucius at age 70 – displays "mastery of morality" spontaneously, his inclinations being in harmony with his virtue. Confucius considers training unnecessary if one is born loving the Way, as with the disciple Yan Hui. Mencius believed that men are already good, and need only realize it not by trying, but by allowing virtue to realize itself, and coming to love the Way. Training is done to learn to spontaneously love the Way. Virtue is compared with the grain seed (being domesticated) and the flow of water. On the other hand, Xun Kuang considered it possible to attain wu wei only through a long and intensive traditional training.