Over first thirty years of the VFA's independence, its relationship with the VFL was, in general, mutually antagonistic. At different times (1913–1918 and 1923–1925), the two competitions had permit reciprocity agreements in place to prevent one competition from poaching players from the other without a clearance, but these were sporadic and remained in place only when convenient to both competitions. At the same time, the strongest clubs in the VFA often sought to defect to the VFL, which the VFL was happy to encourage when it expanded, and there were ultimately four defections: in 1908; and , and in 1925. Attempting to defect was seen as treacherous within the VFA, and clubs which attempted to defect but failed were sometimes expelled from the VFA by the remaining clubs: was expelled from the VFA twice (in 1908 and 1921, before reforming and rejoining on both occasions), and West Melbourne was expelled permanently in 1908.