By the late 1960s, against ALA's wishes, a separate, short-lived art libraries group was created in conjunction with an existing museum sub-section of the Association of College and Research Libraries (ACRL), a division of ALA. This proved to be temporary, too, as support was again limited. According to William J. Dane, "We didn't like being called a sub-section. We didn't need to depend on ALA or ACRL. There were enough of us who said, 'The "hell" with you.' Once the idea of independence got going, it was irreversible." ARLIS/NA was founded in 1972 by art librarians attending the American Library Association annual conference in Chicago and was the brainchild of Judith Hoffberg, who had been inspired by attending meetings of ARLIS/UK in London. The informal annual meetings of art librarians with College Art Association furthered the initiative to organize. According to Wolfgang Freitag, “The Association of College and Research Libraries was but one of several library organizations in which art librarians were enrolled at that time.”