Len had qualified as an architect and Joe, launched the development of a property owned by the Bentel family in Westonaria."This development was anchored by a Checkers store and through this development Len and I, were introduced to Raymond Ackerman, who headed up the Checkers chain of supermarkets within the Greaterman organisation," he said."In the late 1960 Raymond formed the Pick 'n Pay organisation and appointed Bentel Abrahamson & Partners. "Len and I proceeded to form the shopping centre development company National Centre Developers which later became known as Retail International." Ackerman, who had investigated the hypermarket concept in Europe, wanted to establish a hypermarket which would serve the East Rand and other regions. In 1970 Len and Joe travelled to Carrefour Conferama in Paris and the Carrefour in Melon at Fontainbleau—this gave them a clear indication of what Ackerman had envisioned for South Africa.