Some unstressed syllables, however, retain full (unreduced) vowels, i.e. vowels other than those listed above. Examples are the in "ambition" and the in "finite". Some phonologists regard such syllables as not being fully unstressed (they may describe them as having "tertiary stress"); some dictionaries have marked such syllables as having secondary stress. However linguists such as Ladefoged and regard this as a difference purely of vowel quality and not of stress, and thus argue that vowel reduction itself is phonemic in English. Examples of words where vowel reduction seems to be distinctive for some speakers include "chickaree" vs. "chicory" (the latter has the reduced vowel of , whereas the former has the vowel without reduction), and "Pharaoh" vs. "farr"'ow (both have the vowel, but in the latter word it may reduce to ).