In June 1904, opposition led by Siegfried Copalle grew against Karl Fischer in the original Wandervogel group. They debated on social issues: abstinence from alcohol and tobacco, and if females should be allowed to join the movement as equals. As a result, the Copalle group became the "Wandervogel-Steglitz", presided by Ludwig Gurlitt, while followers of Fischer founded the "Alt-Wandervogel". The "Wandervogel-Steglitz" banned alcohol from excursions and removed the "Oberbachant" position in order to establish a collegial direction ("Führerkollegium"). It was geographically limited to the surroundings of Berlin and in 1912, the year of its dissolution, it had only 200 "members", along with 440 students who participated in the group's activities.