I'm not quite sure how me and Thiebaud met; through mutual friends, I think. We were skating together all the time, when he moved to the city and I was giving him Powell gear, and that's, and then he got on Powell, you know, after that—he just felt it wasn't right, you know? And, he went to skate for Natas. You know, he skated for, for, SMA for a while, and then the opportunity came to do something with Real. He approached me, but also Fausto and those guys approached me to be part of it, and at that point in time, at Powell, I was sort of being put on the back burner—'cause all the young guns coming, and I felt it, I knew, you know. And I figured, shit, I want to stay, stay in this world for as long as I can. You know, who wants to grow up? ... And we were sort of the first to start our thing on our own, in the sense that we were spearheading it and we did whatever we wanted ... Skateboarding is, it's not, it's not about stardom, or any of that stuff; it has nothing to do with it. So we kind of took it back, back into the streets ... Skating has to be raw—you gotta keep it raw and I think Real has done a good job of that.It was all about just friends doing something together that they believed in. when you have that, it's kind of unstoppable.