At the meeting, Devoy recalls bringing up the subject of Biggar's conversion to Catholicism: said I was sorry he had turned Catholic... Biggar asked sharply, "Why?" and I replied that he could be more useful as a Presbyterian. "Now", I said, "when young Protestants in Ulster showed a tendency towards Nationality their mothers would say to them: 'The next thing we'll know is that you've turned Papish like Joe Biggar'". "And what about my soul?" asked Biggar. "Oh, I'd be willing to see you damned for the sake of Ireland", I said jocularly. Biggar laughed and then... began a discussion of the Presbyterian doctrine of Predestination.