> realistic use cases for these things require making copies of that buffer, and then you're screwed again Why are you screwed? As long as you `Py_INCREF` after making that copy and before doing anything with it, you're fine, right? > I did a quick skim of numpy and scipy and every use looks broken to me. *When combined with this patch*, numpy looks alright to me, in the one place we use it. That doesn't mean this is a good api, but it does look like a usable one.