Funeral celebrant Roy Francis convinced Messenger that just as his wife was entitled to a civil celebrant marriage, she was similarly entitled to a civil celebrant funeral. Some 200 people attended and many urged Messenger to continue the work as "much more important than weddings." Messenger credits Dennis Perry, then brother in law of Helen Francis, of being a decisive influence. From this time on some marriage celebrants began to quietly and carefully officiate at funerals when they were asked to do so. On Tuesday 3 May 1977 a group, consisting of some authorised marriage celebrants and some other persons formed an
Utopian Community of Modern Times even before 1857, more of the skilled workers of Modern Times “were beginning to be disinclined to trade their skills at par without financial gain,” and so worked outside of Modern Times. Charles Codman who was a resident of Modern Times, wrote many years later that the lack of a charismatic leader who was able to spread the ideas about Modern Times to a wider audience and the fact that a good deal of the settlers were not dedicated to the ideals of equitable commerce led to its inability to continue as a utopian village. Finally, Roger Wunderlich wrote that