Coven number of persons involved may vary. Although some consider thirteen to be ideal (probably in deference to Murray's theories), any group of at least three can be a coven. A group of two is usually called a "working couple" (regardless of the sexes). Within the community, many believe that a coven larger than thirteen is unwieldy, citing unwieldy group dynamics and an unfair burden on the leadership. When a coven has grown too large to be manageable, it may split, or "hive". In Wicca, this may also occur when a newly made High Priest or High Priestess, also called 3rd
New Forest coven been involved in a variety of occult groups, including Co-Masonry and Theosophy, and who had recently moved to the area from Southampton. According to Gardner: This group claimed to have known Gardner from a past life, and in September 1939, revealed to him that they were members of a Witches' coven, and then initiated him into Wicca in a ritual which took place in one of the homes owned by Dorothy Clutterbuck. Gardner would reveal little about the coven and its members, although claimed that in August 1940, during the midst of the Second World War, they performed a ritual