Euchre to 9 are counted similarly by counting the number of suit symbols showing and adding them to the 5, if cards are crossed. In Canada and Michigan, it is common for each team to use two 5s of the same colour to keep score, making one team red and the other black. The 5s are usually referred to as counting cards in this situation. The explanation for why a visual score is kept is due to euchre traditionally being a game played late at night or by people who have been drinking, which is also shown by cheating and stealing
History of Skat Altenburg suit bidding ("Altenburger Farbenreizen") and the point bidding system used today was that the suit bidding offered only the basic values of the games. Except in special cases, a player could not be overbid by an unfavourable Unter/Jack in the Skat, since the position of the Unters was not taken into account when bidding. "Matadors" ("Spitzen") were not taken into account until after the game. In addition, the game types differed from today's: Little is known about the early history and origins of point bidding. The first Skat Congress failed in its attempt to found an all-German Skat Association