Lesbian feminists viewed the separation between "butch" and "femme" in mainstream gay (male) culture of the time in the same way that they viewed the separation in society over gender roles between men and women. They saw these ideas as patriarchal and did not want to join the mainstream gay rights movement because of what they saw as the chauvinism of gay men, and refused to take up their cause. Many lesbians who were not lesbian feminists saw this as not giving help to the gay rights movement.