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[Assistant] Uh, I'll just throw this out there. I think this is unlikely, but it could be interesting if he were willing to do it. If nobody's interested in hiring him as a manager anymore.


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[Assistant] But the first manager that Stephen Vogt played for, does anybody know who that was? Is it Tony LaRusso? Nope. But it's a guy Tony LaRusso's age. Joe Madden.


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[Assistant] Right, and I don't know, I mean, he probably still wants to be a manager, so I don't know, but...


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[Assistant] Having Joe Madden as your bench coach, you know, because the trickiest thing for a new manager is handling the bullpen. To me that's the trickiest thing.


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[Assistant] And he also has experience with analytics. He's, from what I'm told, a great balance of both worlds of scouts and analytics. Anyway, I'm very high on the move. We'll see how it goes.


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[Assistant] Yeah, however, the Astros who have been in the Championship Series seven times in a row have the biggest analytics department in the league, even though they had an old manager.


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[Assistant] I think that's, that's a good hire. Quick shout out to Cleveland's own John Fanta, who's an up and coming young play by play guy. I don't know if you guys know him. He does play by play a lot of college, he's a big college basketball guy.


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[Assistant] And, uh, John was calling the St. John's game yesterday, and I was, you know, interested in watching St. John's for the first time in 20 years. How'd they do? Because of Rick Pitino, they won. Yeaah. I mean, they're playing Stony Brook, not a big time program, but, but, uh. Was Pitino his?


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[Assistant] Well, we talked about on Monday, I remember saying to the guys, I was like, is anybody on this defense having a bad season? And we really couldn't think of anybody. And on the opposite side, out, I can give you one guy, as you said, Amari Cooper. Like, who's having a good season? At least in terms of quarter, I would say David Njoku is having a fine season.


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[Assistant] Alright, that's not even close. And he's closed, I mean, if you say he's closed the gap, it's like the other day when I said the Browns were a worse roster without DPJ. Because they were like, you know, .1% worse or .2% worse. I mean, that's how much he's closed the gap. Right now there's no comparison. I don't know that I agree that the, I mean,


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[Assistant] Right, he's got better talent. He's a player. He's a very good player. He's taking care of the football.


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[Assistant] No, none of these stats are eye-popping right now. But the three interceptions is impressive. That is because he's had turnover issues. That's the key. Especially the last two years. That's been a big problem for him. He's had a lot of bad turnovers the last two years. That's not happening. And he's stayed healthy, which he hasn't the last two years. Right. So we'll see how the rest of the season goes. But as of today,


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[Assistant] There's not even a discussion to be had. I can't, there's no argument for Deshaun Watson even being close to Lamar Jackson today. They have the best record in the AFC.


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[Assistant] Are they going to the Super Bowl? I, I don't think they're going to the, I wouldn't pick them to go to the Super Bowl because I don't trust them in the playoffs.


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[Assistant] Right now they're the best team in football, I think, and certainly the best team in the AFC. They're playing much better than Kansas City. If I'm doing, I, you know, I, I did in my AFC power rankings for whatever that's worth, I don't even think there's a debate to Baltimore. They're tied with Kansas City at seven and two in terms of record, but they've played way better. Kansas City now is getting it done with defense. We haven't seen that.


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[Assistant] I don't know, it's weird that their offense isn't good because they actually, this kid, this rookie, Rasheed Rice, has played really well for them.


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[Assistant] He's developing into a, you know, so I don't think I've watched them enough. I've watched them some, but not enough. Even against Miami. They scored 21 in the first half. It looked like they were going to blow Miami out. And then they didn't score in the second half. That was it.


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[Assistant] I think there's a lot of team, well, a lot strong. I think there's a few teams that can win the Super Bowl in the AFC as of right now. The Ravens, even though they're the best team today, they wouldn't be my first choice to come out of these.


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[Assistant] He's had no talent around him. And Baltimore lost their number one back too, by the way. I know.


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[Assistant] But their other backs are good. They've filled in just fine. Yeaah. Where the Browns have not. Uh, and, and yeaah, Lamar, you gotta give him a lot of credit. He is playing really great football right now.


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[Assistant] But, you know, the frustrating thing about all of this, right, and I'm clearly someone who was in the anti-baker camp.


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[Assistant] But if you're actually listening to what I've said over the years, there were plenty of times, I'm sure, same thing with you,


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[Assistant] Gave Baker credit when he played well. I didn't just, because I thought Baker wasn't that good, I didn't just say he sucked even when he played well. You gotta give a guy credit when he plays well. Baker's playing decent football this year. I give him credit, fine. The point is, like, this idea right now, it really pisses me off.


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[Assistant] You're the worst, you're terrible, you're not giving him any credit. He doesn't deserve much credit right now. On the other hand, you gotta be fair if you're a Watson hater.


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[Assistant] That he, he gave you reason for optimism if nothing else in the second half of that game. I don't know that it's going to turn into anything else. He might play like crap against Baltimore. But the sec, between Tennessee and the second half of this, this last game, there's some optimism.


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[Assistant] But again, he was doing it against the worst team in football. So I want to see it against Baltimore. I want to see it against Pittsburgh. He goes out and bulls out the next two weeks and the Browns win, there'll be a lot of people jumping on his bandwagon. He has to play better.


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[Assistant] I mean, that's crazy. You're on the, you're a wide receiver on the field, 75% of the plays and you have one target?


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[Assistant] By the way, have you seen a more misleading stat than where the Browns are ranked in rushing yards?


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[Assistant] That's part of it. It's also because, contrary to popular belief, they run the ball a lot. Sure.


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[Assistant] And so, like last week, they ran the ball like, what? 40 times. 40 times? Something like that. They were only averaging like 3 yards a carry. I don't even think it was 3 yards a carry. He stuck with it. But their running game is not very good, the Browns.


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[Assistant] Again, a lot of that is the quarterback play. That definitely factors in. The quarterback play has been awful overall.


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[Assistant] It's not gonna work. You know, you didn't give up three first round picks and pay a ton of, I know some people get up tight when you bring up the money, but I'm gonna bring it up. You didn't give up three first round picks and pay a ton of money for a guy to throw screen passes all day.


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[Assistant] Bring up the money. Oh, I don't care. I mean, it's part of the equation. That is the elephant in the room. If, if, if Joe Burrow doesn't play well, I'm gonna bring up his money. If Patrick Mahard doesn't play well, I'm gonna bring up his money.


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[Assistant] I thought you showed some confidence in the second half. I thought the cockiness was there and I want to see that because


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[Assistant] I think that's been missing. Yea, but boy, when he's playing poorly...


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[Assistant] He looks like someone stole his puppy. No, that's true, but I thought the second half he played decently, decently. So I can carry away, played decently. And, uh, but I think it's still in there, but I'm questioning it, sure, it's fair to question whether it's still in there. I think it's a good question, it's certainly


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[Assistant] The more games you go like this where you don't play well, the less likely it seems you will become that guy. The more that cement dries. Right. It's not over.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but that's because of Nick Chubb and because they run it. I mean their total rushing yards is high. But if you look at yards per carry, they stink without Chubb.


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[Assistant] But you'd admit Leroy, it's a lot easier to do against the Arizona Cardinals than it will be against Baltimore and Pittsburgh.


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[Assistant] Go ahead. I was gonna say, what would be your plan? Like, obviously we know the Ravens are well coached. If they're smart, they're probably gonna double team Amari Cooper the whole game.


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[Assistant] Just to prove your point. We all know what's going on and I'm so sick of hearing about it and yet I'm going to bring it up. I don't want to see one more tweet about this stupid Michigan situation. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about it and I know everybody's talking about it. I don't care. And all the Michigan fans are defending Michigan and everybody else is killing them.


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[Assistant] You know damn well if the same thing had happened to Ohio State, Ohio State fans would be defending it. Sure. And Michigan fans would be killing them. Because all fans, all fans are hypocrites.


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[Assistant] You're Miami Dolphins, they're a complete fraud, are they not? Will you admit they're a fraud?


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[Assistant] I don't think they should, I don't think they should be booted out of the college football playoff, by the way. I think if they beat Ohio State, they should play for the national championship.


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[Assistant] I don't know how we'd make him a top 10 receiver based on what, I mean.


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[Assistant] If you look at just raw stats of yards per game, he's not up there. If you look at touchdowns, he's not up there. If you look at PFF grades, he's not in the top 10. I know you got to factor, you know, you want to factor in that he's playing with worse quarterbacks than some of these other guys.


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[Assistant] Okay, but I mean, do I have to now analyze every time I'm making a list of top 10 wide receivers, who their quarterback is? I mean, if Amari Cooper was playing, playing with, uh,


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[Assistant] You know, a healthy Deshaun Watson all year would his numbers be as good as any of those guys? I mean, maybe, maybe not. Certainly not the top two.


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[Assistant] But I could, you know, I could say, well, Jamar Chase would have better numbers if Joe Burr wasn't hurt early in the season. Or Keenan Allen would have better numbers if Justin Herbert didn't have a broken finger. Or DJ Moore would have better numbers if he didn't also play on a team with a crappy quarterback situation. Um, Mark Cooper's a really good player. He's never been a top 10 receiver.


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[Assistant] I mean, in the end, we're arguing minutiae. I think most of us would agree he's between 11 and 15. I absolutely agree. So does it matter if he's the 8th best wide receiver or the 12th this year? It doesn't really matter.


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[Assistant] The last two weeks against the Niners and Bills, he's made one bad throw. The throw that Chase got hurt his back on. He under threw that. He did. That deep throw. That's the only bad throw he's made in two weeks.


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[Assistant] Well, you know what a big part of that is? When he was hurt, they had to play from shotgun the entire game. Because it was hard for him to take a snap under center and run back. So they weren't under center at all.


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[Assistant] You know, against San Francisco, he was under center a lot. Last week against Buffalo, it was a little more of a mix. But anyway, it's, this division is just, I mean, it's unbelievable. Everybody's in the playoffs. Unbelievable. That's never happened, has it? No, it's only been possible since 2020.


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[Assistant] You usually do. I don't know if you guys mentioned the stat yesterday. I mentioned it on Monday, but you weren't here Jay. The, the, the AFC North in non-divisional games. Yeah. Are 17 and 6.


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[Assistant] Wow. The next best record is the A, NFC East at 14 and 11. No other division is more than a game over 500. To me. And they're 17 and 6. And three of those losses are the Steelers. That is the stat that, that


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[Assistant] I don't think it will be interesting, but I think Bengals will rout Houston. Well, Houston's defense is terrible, but obviously CJ Stroud, my god. This may be, you know, Baker, I'll give him his credit, had one of the better rookie seasons we've ever seen, but CJ Stroud may, you know, if he stays healthy,


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[Assistant] here. There's no way this guy's a rookie and you've seen him raise the talent of the guys. Like Nico Collins has been just a guy in the NFL. Nico Collins having a good season.


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[Assistant] And think about this, they got no defense, and they got no running game.


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[Assistant] Right, and if you're in an obvious passing down, then yeaah, you take them off. Right. I guess, but you don't wanna, although you don't wanna signal what you're doing to the defense, I guess, but still, it's worth the opportunity.


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[Assistant] Sean Watson plays well, none of the other things matter much.


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[Assistant] By the way, is it a coincidence that, who knows if it's true or not, but there were a lot of rumors last year that Denzel Ward was going through something in his personal life. And he had his worst year last year. And this year, he's having his best year.


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[Assistant] So you think he's gonna throw 12 touchdowns in 9 games?


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[Assistant] Yes. And then you think he's gonna throw for about 2,000 yards in nine games?


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[Assistant] Is that even 4,000, does that come out to 4,000 yards of the season? No. Or just below that? You gotta throw more than 215 a game to do that. 10 games would give you 2,150.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean that, you know, going into the season, if I would have said that Sean Watson got 3,600 yards, you'd be like, oh, that sucks. I know you would. Yeah.


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[Assistant] But, based on where he is now, this would be...


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[Assistant] I think that's very low and very attainable. It is low. It is attainable. If he keeps his carry pace, then he will get there. I think, I agree with Mike. I think that whether it's strong, whether it's Kenyon Drake, the veteran who they brought in here, I think if he's not productive, which he hasn't been, they're eventually going to have to give up other guys, you know, more of a lead back role.


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[Assistant] Because I don't think his role is going to change much. You don't? Yeah, I don't.


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[Assistant] I think they're going to want to keep him on limited carries. I think that's how they feel like he's going to work.


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[Assistant] He's never had, I don't think he's ever had 1,200 in his career.


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[Assistant] Oh, there's some more in the back. Cause now- Remember we did a poll before the season? I don't remember- Mike, I think we did a poll, like, who's gonna be second on the Browns and rushing yards?


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[Assistant] I think like a third of the people maybe voted. Our fans need therapy. They really do.


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[Assistant] And I know he hasn't done anything yet, but I'd like to see some of Cedric Tillman and David DeGiochi who's having a decent season. I see nothing from, I could certainly be wrong, but I've seen nothing from Elijah Moore on the field that makes me think he's any good.


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[Assistant] He has no sense of the sideline when they throw him the ball. Like, you throw the ball to Omari Cooper on the sideline. If it's possible, in any way, he will keep his feet in. Always. The good receivers always do. Elijah Moore has no sideline sense.


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[Assistant] Yeah, definitely. Especially, I remember earlier this season he did nothing. I know. But the last few weeks he's played really well. All jokes aside.


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[Assistant] I think he is. Man, this, uhm, the guy, there's some interesting guys in the mix for defensive player of the year.


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[Assistant] I feel like we talk about the same guys, like Miles and Watt, and maybe Bossa, but like,


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[Assistant] That guy is an animal and I hate to be a homer but Trey Hendrickson of the Bengals is the most underrated pass rusher.


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[Assistant] Funny, last year, he had a lot of sacks first half of the season, and then like none in the second half. Maybe he'll reverse that this year.


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[Assistant] I think he'll get there, and remember, there's still some bad teams, offensive teams on the schedule.


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[Assistant] By the way, I'll throw this little nugget out there. The Browns should go sign, uh, uh, what's the name? JPP? JPP, right.


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[Assistant] Because if you pay your quarterback a ton of money, it leaves you with less margin for error to screw up in traffic.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's, that's weird. Maybe Hayden made a mistake. I don't know.


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[Assistant] It doesn't make sense. There's no logic behind it. Maybe they're just taking a look at them there? I mean, I don't know. Who knows?


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[Assistant] Maybe, but, I don't know. Maybe, the only thing I can think of is that if Dewan is gonna miss some time, too...


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[Assistant] That whoever the next tackle up is, they think he's better at left for whatever reason.


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[Assistant] The last three third round picks at wide receiver, Anthony Schwartz, Cedric Tillman, David Bell, in their careers, which is a total of two for Schwartz, one and a half for Bell, and a half for, so it's essentially four total years between. Will they have 12 quite catches?


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[Assistant] Mike, one last thing real quick, sorry. Think if you would just hit on one of those three guys. Now again, it's too early to rule out Tillman, but if you would just hit on one of those three guys, what a difference it is. One, even a one.


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[Assistant] Speaking of which, they should sign either Jorge Soler or Teasca Hernandez. Soler would be a great sign. They really should sign both, but I know that's crazy.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that Kims goes back to that ridiculous stat that somebody put in our chat group.


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[Assistant] Is mostly about the defense, let's be honest. Of course it is.


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[Assistant] Watson played an excellent game against Tennessee. He did. He was, he played a solid second half against Arizona. If PJ Walker,


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[Assistant] The Arizona offense was one of the worst offenses I've ever seen. I think they have 54 net yards. Yeaah, I mean.


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[Assistant] Even PJ Walker, they would have won handily, I think, against Arizona. Maybe not as handily, but handily, I think.


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[Assistant] I always thought my job was to be honest about the football.


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[Assistant] Maybe, but I don't think that makes you, that's not a way to judge who's one of the ten best receivers, in my opinion.


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[Assistant] Feel good, man. Uh, watch the bronze game. You guys weren't kidding.


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[Assistant] And, and, and then he had a couple of them, and, and the thing is, is that, with a rotator cuff, right, there's four muscles.


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[Assistant] Don't know which one is injured. Don't know, you know, there's some fluid in there or whatever. And one time you can lift your arm and it's great. And one time you can lift your arm and it's terrible.


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[Assistant] Him be able to rip the ball a few times. Right?


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[Assistant] To, to where at least you got an idea that uhm, you know, one, the thing that I liked seeing was he was making pretty good decisions. Whether he executed him or not was a different story, right?


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[Assistant] Uhm, it was a good week to get back, he probably had a little more time than he would normally have. Uhm, and...


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[Assistant] Yeah, I'm excited. I'm glad to see that he's playing. Uhm, when you see some of the throws that he makes, you see why the Browns did what they did. When you see other throws, you see why he sat out a couple of weeks.


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[Assistant] And I thought after watching him struggle with a couple of throws, I'm like, how in the hell did he even try to play after one week?


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[Assistant] Because it, look, you know what I mean? But like, look at how long it's been for him to be able to throw like maybe 15 balls. Like really rip 15 balls. So uhm, it's gonna be a process. I do think that what helps is that you can still rely on that run game. You still got your defense, huh? I don't agree with you.


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[Assistant] Uhm, it, it never seemed like, when I watched the game, it never seemed like they were committed to running the football, right? It almost seemed like...


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[Assistant] That was a game we gonna try to get Deshaun Watson back in action. But they ran it 40 times. Yeah? Okay.


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[Assistant] That, that's, that's where I'm going with that, right? And, and so when, I would lean on them and, and what I would do is, is,


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[Assistant] I think they're trying to run the football to everybody's skill set.


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[Assistant] And so it looks clunky when you try to take these little backs and run them way outside. Right? I'm tired of seeing that.


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[Assistant] Like, you wanna be a running back, you gotta run in between the tackles. You can bounce it, but I'm not running sweeps with you. Like, it's too, it, it, it's...


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[Assistant] Running, running those sweeps with those running backs is two hit or miss. Right? And here's what I can't afford. I can't afford second and 14.


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[Assistant] But I can't deal with second and fourth team because you ran a sweep and didn't get back to the line of scrimmage.


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[Assistant] And that's what, that's what it seems like they're doing. They're trying to use, you know, forward and try to get them outside and use the speed.


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[Assistant] Don't put players, especially a running back. Don't try to make a running back. Don't determine where a running back runs.


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[Assistant] Just let him use his eyes and if he gets there, fine.


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[Assistant] You gotta just run to your strength, the strength of your team and let the running back make it happen.


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[Assistant] They're trying to put these running backs a lot of times and say, Oh, he's a fast guy. We're going to run sweeps with him and counters and stuff like that. Nope.


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[Assistant] I want all the running backs doing the same stuff. It's just gonna look different because they all have different skill sets. Who's the horse of this group?


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[Assistant] I don't know if you're ever gonna have a horse like, you know, Nick Chubb. I don't think...


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[Assistant] I think so too. Because I think the other two guys get nervous and try to run around everybody.


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[Assistant] Uhm, so yeaah, that's what I think that is. But, but still, uhm, you know, I think you have to, even though they ran it a lot, did it ever seem like they were actually committed to it?


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[Assistant] It almost seemed like they were running it a lot because they didn't want to throw it a lot. Right?


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[Assistant] To be physical upfront. Make a conscious effort to, to get the run game going and they'll be fine. Because, you know.


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[Assistant] Before a couple of weeks, they were running the ball really good with, with Nick Chubb out. And it's still not, hey look, guess what? They're still top five running the football.


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[Assistant] So, as much as you're unhappy with...


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[Assistant] You know, the results the last couple of weeks and how they've been running the football. The overall season.


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[Assistant] Uh, and the overall, uh, output that they've had running football has been pretty good.


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[Assistant] That's okay. If you can run a ball 40 times, you're dominating the line of scrimmage.


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[Assistant] If you, if, because look, it's very easy for a team to put you in a situation where you can't run the ball that much.


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[Assistant] Bill Carr would say, I don't care if I gotta run it 40 times for 100 yards. It's the 40 carries that the other team is allowing me to have.


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[Assistant] Yeah, cause you gotta be moving the football. You gotta have a lot of first down there to run it. Exactly. Exactly. So you have to put it in the context that if you were able to run the ball 40 times and still win a football game, the yardage isn't as important as the carries.


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[Assistant] Of course, I'm not, yeaah, I'm not going there at all. But I will say this, if you're, if...


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[Assistant] You play Baltimore and Baltimore let you run it 40 times. They ain't got the ball.


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[Assistant] And you still control the live screen regardless of how many yards you have. Because you can't just run it 40 times. You have to have some type of production in order to get that many carries.


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[Assistant] You know what I hate more than anything in football? Double team and a receiver. Because he's still got 50 by 50 to run.


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[Assistant] Right? But he can go up and high point the ball and catch the hell out of the football.


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[Assistant] And so you ever notice when he caught that ball, uh, down on the right side of the field, um, he, I think he came up a little bit short, right? You see those two Cardinals chasing him? He was doubled. And what good was that? There it is right there. Doubled. So what? You can't, the double coverage don't mean nothing.


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[Assistant] You know, they'll do man underneath, so they'll have somebody chase them around, then have a safety over the top. Right? That would eliminate that play we just saw. But to have two guys chasing them?


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[Assistant] Like come on. So now you got two guys in the back instead of one. So I don't think doubling him is the answer. But here's what we're just gonna boil down to. In all honesty.


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[Assistant] Because I do think Baltimore is going to have a better game plan after seeing what Amari Cooper has done and think.


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[Assistant] What are these other receivers gonna do? And they're gonna have to make a play. That's it.


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[Assistant] That's it, and that's what football is. Everybody got stars on they team.


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[Assistant] Right? Sometimes you can shut them down, sometimes you can't. But if you want to win football games, if they shut down your star players, somebody else gotta get, make a play. You getting paid too?


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[Assistant] Okay? So, what I would say, is in situations like this, them kids ain't got nothing to do with this. Don't penalize them. But what you do is, you take all that money, and you give it to the rest of the Big Ten.


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[Assistant] Here, here is the thing that I hate about this surrounding sports, right?


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[Assistant] We are all, the whole point of sport is me competing against the other guy.


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[Assistant] Right? Right, fairly. I lived, I played my entire football career based on confrontation.


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[Assistant] And this is the part of competition that bothers me. Just because you gotta, you know what


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[Assistant] Right, but here's what I would say. Uhm, under no circumstance would I want to play for another school. Like, it's not...


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[Assistant] Here's how I look at the Miami Dolphins, right? The three teams that they've lost to have been consistent, um, consistent, uh, fighting for a championship for the last three or four years. You just got to the party.


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[Assistant] They got some learning to do. They got some growing to do. Coaching staff, players, everybody. You don't learn from those situations unless you're in those situations. They'll get better at it.


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[Assistant] And guess what? Here's the thing that sucks about all this. We're doing strength of schedule now.


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[Assistant] Kansas City never looks flustered. You know why? Been there, done that. Yea, that's very true. Right!


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[Assistant] Right, the only team of all those teams that look like they're going through some stuff and they always do this is Buffalo!


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[Assistant] You know what I appreciate? You know what I appreciate what Pittsburgh does? They pick a guy.


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[Assistant] We don't realize that it doesn't get turned up, turned around overnight and


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[Assistant] You need some kind of consistency in the building. If you start changing things and firing coaches and getting rid of quarterbacks and doing this and this and this, you go into a cycle like well, uh, the Cleveland Browns.


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[Assistant] Lamar Jackson has evolved as a quarterback. He came into the league as an athlete. He now throws the ball extremely well. Right? He makes plays with his arm and his feet. That is a unique thing to have.


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[Assistant] Uhm, Deshaun Watson, he hasn't played in a while. We don't know where he is. Can he put three or four weeks? I want to see him play three or four or five weeks in a row so he can get it going.


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[Assistant] They don't get the length of a career that the coaches get.


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[Assistant] The only people that are going to get punished in this at the end are the kids. Where they have to go somewhere else. Whatever. And so if they didn't do anything, why are we penalizing them?


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[Assistant] Detroit. No, it's not going to Detroit. No, hell no. He's going to the Los Angeles Chargers.


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[Assistant] What about the Bears? You ain't going to Vegas? They ain't got no damn quarterback! What about the Bears?


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[Assistant] She'll be playing this week? Gee! And I'm Gee Bush, leader of the Kool-Aid Mafia, and I'm gonna tell you why Deshaun Watson could be back in more than one way. Jason? I'm Jason Lawson.


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[Assistant] And one thing that I look at is, Deshaun Watson, there's something to be said for somebody that played the best game that they've been in that uniform.


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[Assistant] You don't want to lose that momentum. And when you get in a locker room, it was euphoria when it came to the 49ers game. You watching your teammates out there and as a captain, as a quarterback, you want to be out there too. So, you know, I look at it, he may not be a hundred percent.


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[Assistant] But it just goes to show you, he was gonna do everything he needed to do physically to get back on the field. And miraculously, it's looking like it's trending, Jay, to be playing against the Colts. It does. What's crazy about this is,


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[Assistant] And if he can't make the throws, I don't think the media or the fans will be alarmed that PJ Walker did not get the bulk of the first team wraps. Because when it was DTR, we were like, well, why isn't he ready? We know what their protocol is now. They want to get a look at him, especially right before the game. And if he's not able to play, PJ Walker.


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[Assistant] I actually think they, I would like to see Richardson overmiss you, namely because when you're a rookie quarterback, the first time you get under center and your first read isn't there, Jay, you're looking to run, you're taking off.


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[Assistant] There's some times you get confused by defenses and robbery coverages and you may think it's zoned and it's manned and they disguise it and you throw an interception. He's not going to sit in the pocket and be, uh, you know, just really, you know, diligent and going through his progressions. But if you get a veteran kind of the same way, PJ Walker is a veteran, DTR is a rookie.


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[Assistant] Defenses out of the football. I'ma go with C. Oni, talking, talking.


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[Assistant] Uhm, this game is going to come down to if you can stop, uh, Zach Moss and Taylor in this run game and Taki Taki is going to be in on base downs. So you need to get those guys off the field. You need to be able to stop the run game. And then if you could capitalize offensively.


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[Assistant] Then you can really get scary and get into your nickel packages where you down moving miles Garrett all around. But Taki Taki is a guy that I want to see help stop the run.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think it's a time for him to get over 100. And I would, and I would expect as the season goes along, that Deshaun Watson starts looking at him like, hey, if all else fails, I'm going to look over here to Mario Cooper and see what he has. Even if he's covered. Force feeding him the ball a little bit, especially if he's going to make catches like he did last week.


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[Assistant] That's this is a Watson pig. Um, if you know you all you got to do is ask me. I don't flip-flop way over that. Yeah, they're gonna get 30 points. 30. They scored 30 all year. I don't know.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, it is. It's been a long time, and like you say, you gotta stack the wins up, Jay.


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[Assistant] Alright, well. G's up. G, I'm sorry. Listen, to come off my spectacular pick of the Cleveland Browns. The only one that got it right last week. We're gonna keep that thing rolling. A coach messed around and found out.


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[Assistant] Browns, browns pour a tall glass of Kool-Aid after dismantling the coats and we got a little extra flavor in there. That's that great Kool-Aid right there ready to go. Yes. Don't mess around and find out. Browns Roll.


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[Assistant] That's what's wrong with Ohio State now. They need some, you need some players that might.


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[Assistant] You have to ask Earl to explain it, but Earl showed it to me for tonight's NBA action. Yeah. It's, it's really good. We're gonna tease that.


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[Assistant] Obviously with the fact that he worked with Kevin Stefanski, you know, that's a guy that can come in and obviously, now don't get me wrong, the playbook has changed a little bit, but I think when it comes to speaking the same language, those two will be able to get it back and as far as the guy that's...


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[Assistant] Been to the playoffs, had some playoff experience. I think that he would come in and be the best option. He probably would look probably the best. They still need to get some weapons at wide receivers.


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[Assistant] But look, you know, he loses Justin Jefferson. He played great yesterday. Well, they got in it because Jordan Addison is really good. He's really good. I knew that coming in. He's really good.


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[Assistant] He's the second. And he's got great leadership. I mean, the way he carries himself, you know, everybody's behind him for sure. The only thing about him is that if he did come back,


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[Assistant] Given the fact that Kirk Cousins is not an osh. I can't really disagree with that.


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[Assistant] I don't know who's available.


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[Assistant] I can understand why though, because it's- I can't. You come into a season-


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[Assistant] Who would have predicted Deshawn and Nick Chilby out?


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[Assistant] That's right. He's been better since the LASIK surgery. You can't tell me he wasn't. Like, last year, before he got benched for, who'd he get benched for? Was it Tasty Hume? No, no. Who was their quarterback, Larry?


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[Assistant] But I think, listen, a guy that's, he least throws touchdowns. The one thing that he does that PJ Walker has yet to do in his starts is he throws touchdowns.


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[Assistant] Well, Amara Cooper's here, so he asked somebody he got chemistry with. Go ahead, McNugget.


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[Assistant] No, no, no, no, right. He was in there, he carried out his fate for Jerome Ford. Oh, that's huge. 20 points. Go ahead, Mike.


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[Assistant] Mary Kay, is Derrick going on? Do you think they should put him on IR for weeks or do you think that he's healthy enough or he should continue to stay day to day and they should go into every game just having PJ Walker ready?


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[Assistant] Mary Kay, I think the offensive line play has been better the past few weeks. What do you credit that to? Every since, I feel like every since they came off the bye week, you know, they've been pretty solid. Not saying that they're the greatest, but they've been very solid. I haven't really noticed a ton of sacks and they've been opening up lanes for these running backs. What is that a credit to?


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[Assistant] Do you know why Cedric Tillman was uh, scratched last week? Why he did, why he was inactive?


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[Assistant] It's a tall task. I mean, you about to go up against a guy who's a nine time all-pro. I understand that. That don't miss tackle. So if he makes it's better than sitting on the bench.


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[Assistant] For the rest of the organization, you gotta go put him on IR. The simple fact that you can't have these players out here thinking, I gotta get ready to train because Deshaun might play but then if he don't play I gotta be ready for this guy.


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[Assistant] You graduated? You graduated? Yeaah, that's it. My loss was me and my, me and my now wife, we got together in November. Uhm, after that season, I was going to go prepare for the draft in January.


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[Assistant] Well, you know, just, you know, live and well in a four and two weekend, uhm. Lookin' spiff, bro. Try, yea, listen, I, you know, this, this is, uh, this, this is a, a consultant, G. Bush. I come in and tell you why your construction company's losing money. Thousand dollars an hour.


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[Assistant] You know, I don't know. I've already heard Dalvin Cook too. Wats out.


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[Assistant] If you're expecting to see the Deshaun Watson that you wanted to see in 2023, it's not gonna be happening this year.


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[Assistant] Uhm, there's too many hits that quarterbacks take on a daily or weekly basis that he's not gonna be able to take. He didn't even get driven into the ground. He kinda got pushed and he landed, put his arm down and kinda hurt his shoulder more. But for me, I look at this as a body of work for the front office and the coaching staff.


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[Assistant] Uh, even back, back when they, Baker in 2021, when they went through this thing every single week, is Baker hurt, was he not hurt? You know what happened with that. You're going back to next year. You got, you got Deshaun Watson out for the 11 games.


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[Assistant] But, but you still have people saying, hey, are you going to upgrade a deep hat tackle? Are you going to give us some receivers? They did nothing. We talked about it. Linebackers, receivers.


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[Assistant] And defense alignment, they did nothing on that year and we talked about it and we coined that gentleman's punt that year.


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[Assistant] We come back this year, they did upgrade the defensive line. They did try to do some things at wide receiver, but you sit here at four and two, you're in a position where you could go five and two and possibly even have a game set up against the Cardinals where you can be 62 in the driver's seat, so to speak.


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[Assistant] But you look like you don't have any intentions on upgrading for PJ Walker. Your running backs are dinged up and hurt. We haven't heard anything on the front as far as running backs are concerned. And most people still think Mary Kay Cappa says, hey, we need a receiver. So you can't fix every position.


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[Assistant] I think a lot of people are conflating two different things. One is if he goes out there, is he too hurt? Is the pain too great that he can't play? And the other one is, even if he doesn't feel it's hurt,


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[Assistant] He still can't effectively throw the football. So if you can't effectively throw the football, it doesn't matter if you sit him a whole year. Like if he comes back and it doesn't hurt and he can't complete 5 to 10 yard passes.


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[Assistant] Uhm, my confidence is taking a hit, uhm, because of everything going into it. Like, you know, I was talking to Mikey the other day. A lot of people don't realize that, you know, there's a lot of things that go into, uhm, being who you are.


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[Assistant] And I think a lot of people in our fan base, uhm, because we've taken L so much, we're dismissive about the-


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[Assistant] The actual life things that go on in a player's life to a point where they may never play the way they played before. Right. If you think about it, I mean, when you go through all these changes, he got here, you gotta realize, we didn't, Browns didn't draft him.


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[Assistant] So usually when you draft somebody, there's a cachet that comes with it because we took you. You are one of our own. But really, G, if you think about


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[Assistant] We're talking about the fan base. Right. The fan, so when you, when the fan... Well you win those, you win the fan base over by winning games. So here's the thing, if you, if you've already been suspended, you ain't been on the field, right? Yeah. If you already came with the allegations, and, and, you know, the fans are kind of upset about that,


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[Assistant] You only played three games. You only played one of the games, well, this year. So your play isn't all that great. And now you're day to day with an injury. So you're not winning them over. So you're not winning. Actually, you done lost some people. Sure.


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[Assistant] You know, he's played a little, he's played, he's played a little bit better the last couple of weeks. Uhm, but the guy behind him, uhm, Hudson is, is, he don't want no parts of that. It's a shame that you say, man, I'd like to have Jedrick Wills. I mean, when I looked at it like this, I'm trying to think if, if, if,


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[Assistant] Luke Whippler, who could they put out there? Like, because I don't want to put James Hudson out there. Uhm, Jed has played a little bit better. Uhm, you know, he still has some mistakes out there at left tackle, but uhm,


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[Assistant] This is another reason why, you know, I wouldn't have Deshaun Watson being out there, especially if you got a left tackle that is not, uhm, that's not as good at pass blocking as Jedrick Wilson. He's had his problems, so it'll be something. We're gonna find out what kind of depth they have. I think they might have to actually get creative a little bit, uhm, and move some guys around.


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[Assistant] I don't know if they say, let's put Dewan Jones at left tackle, I doubt it. He's doing right, good on the right hand side, but for me,


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[Assistant] It's a big deal. Uhm, it's another guy that you gotta find to get ready right now. You gotta worry about the snap count when you're talking about left tackles playing in that, uh, that hostile environment, not hearing checks and different things like that. And another reason it's kinda tough.


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[Assistant] Is, now you're gonna have Joe Boltonio not having that communication with a guy who he's never played next to. You know, he's gonna be tapping him on his shoulder. Hey Joe, what I got on this play? Hey, tapping him on his shoulder. Is it a double team right here to the next level? Hey, hey, hey, what is this on again?


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[Assistant] Especially when you're doing Twix and Tewis, Texas, and trying to, you know, pick up blitzes, that's the big part. Especially when you got a quarterback that's going to hold the ball a lot longer than PJ Walker. So, it's a thing. It's definitely a thing.


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[Assistant] Uh, Tim, let me ask you this question. Uhm, you know, we were talking about the, the, the mental psyche, especially at quarterback. Uhm, as the guy that's supposed to be the leader, as the guy that everybody looks to and is supposed to be the captain of the team.


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[Assistant] Uhm, one of the times that I always remember is, you know, when you were playing for the Browns, how many times you got sacked and when you got injured, uh, you know, the one time, I think it was your shoulder.


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[Assistant] You, uh, they, they booed you, right? And uhm, how, how were you able, first of all, did that hurt your mental psyche that, you know, your home fam was booing you, your home crowd was booing you? And two,


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[Assistant] Uhm, how did you, how did that, that effect?


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[Assistant] Tim, when you, when there is a backup quarterback in a game,


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[Assistant] You may, uh, have a different progression than a backup has, right? Or maybe, uhm, you know, as a backup, they only ask you to read one side of the field. Or if they, you know, they don't let you audible. Are there any, like, uh, I guess parameters or guardrails that, that Coach Stefanski


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[Assistant] Uhm, would be looking at giving PJ Walker in order for him to play faster or the team to be more efficient, especially when you try to check in the line of scrimmage.


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[Assistant] You know, there's a path to victory here. It's not like we playing, I mean, you got the same, last time I checked, I don't think that the roster got worse between the time we played the 49ers, right? Don't turn the ball over.


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[Assistant] But you didn't have Betonio in that game. Yes, you're correct. I'm looking at it like this, man. If that defense shows up like they did against the 49ers, I'm not worried about the Seahawks offense. They got some nice stuff. I love it.


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[Assistant] The 49ers are way more talented than Seahawks. Give me Denzel Ward. He had a nice pick last week. I got him shutting him down. I agree with you, G.


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[Assistant] It was a low grade high ankle sprain. He's aware, he's aware it was behind him. A lot of people want to see. Yea, he can lose his job in a hurry if Pierre Strong plays well. I do not want that. Let me get out here and flex his ankle a little bit. It ain't even hurting like that.


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[Assistant] But let me start this, man. Listen, don't get it twisted. You might be nice, but you still 12 and a half years old with a spoon.


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[Assistant] If the Browns wanna win, I thought they did a good job of saying this last week.


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[Assistant] PJ Walker has hit a couple plays. He has hit a couple plays. And he finally hit that play down the sideline to Elijah Moore. And it was just enough to get him where they needed to go.


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[Assistant] In this game, PJ Walker has to hit one or two throws to keep drives going, move the chains, or possibly get a touchdown on the road for them to get a win. So, you know, that's the throw that they're going to have an opportunity to have next week or this week.


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[Assistant] Uhm, they're gonna need to run and stick to it. I'm gonna go with Joe Petonio. See, this is, this is, this is the Keshe 22 with the Browns, right? Because they've had so much quarterback turmoil, people forget the rest of the roster is nice. Like, you start going down position for position, you're like, well okay, well I'll take him.


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[Assistant] And I'll take him, and I'll take the Browns on this one too. And you start to see the depth.


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[Assistant] And just at all these other literate positions, how they got guys that can get it done.


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[Assistant] In this case, I'm going with Joe Plotonia. I like Jared Reed or whatever the case may be. But, hey, let's go back, you know, this isn't a DJ Reader, this isn't, you know what I'm saying, this isn't some of the guys the 49ers have in the middle. This is, you know,


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[Assistant] He's a, he's a nice ballplayer, but give me Joe Botonio specifically in the run game.


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[Assistant] I'm gonna go with Kenneth Walker. Uhm, this is the part of the game that scares me a little bit, uhm, because if there's one thing that you can say, uhm, is that, you know, the Browns got touched a little bit against the Ravens on the ground, uhm, in, in, in, you know, especially with the quarterback, uh, Lamar Jackson.


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[Assistant] Take a look at this game, uhm, they got Kenneth Walker. Last game I thought, uh, Taylor and what's his name? Taylor and Moss had a nice game, one-two punch, and I think Taylor really got his best game of the season. So this is a place where you come in and you say, okay, Seattle can run the football.


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[Assistant] Kenneth Walker is physical and I take my chances with the Browns on the ground rather than in the air because that leaves Miles Garrett trying to get off blocks and not pass rushing. I think Kenneth Walker definitely has it over J.L.K. especially because of the weight difference and the fact that he's just so physical to get on the ground.


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[Assistant] Then yeaah, he's got a huge advantage because he's not coming at you at full speed. Right. You need to, you need to change the line of scrimmage and be on their side of the line of scrimmage so that he doesn't get a two, three yard run downhill and now he's in the secondary. They can stop him like they did Derrick Henry before he gets going. That's how you got to stop big backs. Who you going with, Jason? Kenneth Walker.


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[Assistant] That's crazy. I wanna see how good he is when it's second in two.


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[Assistant] Ain't no corner-gooder saying it's who. You can get run. You can get pass. You can get play action. You can get scream. You can get a lot. You can get draw. Listen, the Browns, eh, you know what's great?


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[Assistant] I don't gotta, I don't gotta wreck my mind about who getting yards or whatever. It's, we, they need to be running rudimentary plays and keeping this team on the field as long as possible with sustained drives. That's the, that's the way you win this game.


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[Assistant] And that's pretty much to me the only path to winning this game. It's time of possession, winning turnovers, and you gotta punch, you gotta get seven instead of threes.


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[Assistant] When you, like, listen, you go to some of these college stadiums, go to a concert, you can't hear nothing.


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[Assistant] When you look at the tackles that you have, that's the biggest thing, is when you're trying to play a conservative game, you're trying to stay above the sticks, the things that kill you are, the play came in late, they gotta get the plays in quicker.


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[Assistant] You can't wait to three, four, two, one. No, no, no. Substitutions. You can't have holding. Like if you got holding penalties or false start penalties, you're second in five. And you're done. You're cooked if you get one penalty. So a lot of the crowd noise causes these penalties.


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[Assistant] And it's just difficult to really play a game where you got a quarterback who needs to stay above the sticks. That's going to be a big part of this game.


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[Assistant] And I'ma tell you, like, all year, you go back and watch these All 22s, the Browns have one of the worst times in the world, passing off, like, just regular stunts.


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[Assistant] So, somebody, two guys will follow one guy and the other guy comes loose. They don't communicate. One guy takes a guy you thought, your man had him, he comes loose. And, PJ Walker struggles consistently when they do the mug technique. The mug technique is just, basically everybody's at the line of scrimmage before the snap.


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[Assistant] Kevin Stefanski can't be going, can't be going five lives.


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[Assistant] He just can't do it. They don't have the tackles to keep up with that pressure. It's gonna be hard to hear silent snap counts and different things like that.


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[Assistant] And PJ Walker doesn't diagnose the plays quick enough to understand, okay, the pressure's coming from here, I'm gonna go right where he left. He's just not able to do that at this point. So they gotta find some ways to be able to throw the football and still protect a little bit. Could be tough.


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[Assistant] Well listen, just go look at what Jim Shortz did after the Ravens game. Ravens game didn't do too much. They looked vulnerable in the run and vulnerable on the ground.


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[Assistant] But guess what they did? They corrected it. They got to the San Francisco 49ers and they played one of the best defensive games this year in the NFL.


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[Assistant] A turnover process and same type of energy on defense. They can beat Seattle at Seattle. And I think the Browns have a good chance. It's not, not a blowout. They got a chance to win this game.


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[Assistant] G. Bush. Hey man, listen, I was telling him earlier, when you talk about the situation with Kevin Stefanski,


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[Assistant] I've been very vocal about what his ups and downs have been, but I'll give him credit. Uhm, he played on and going in that game with Deshaun Watson.


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[Assistant] And he made a decision he did not make a couple years ago, which shows me that he's learning from situations. He made a decision that said, listen, Deshaun, you're not looking good right now. I don't know what it is. It could be you, Rust, or you're injured, but I'm going to make a, I'm going to make a play what's best for the team. We're going to sit you down and we're going to go with PJ Walker.


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[Assistant] That takes a lot of heart. That's especially when you know what the expectation level is for Deshaun Watson. So I thought, I thought Kevin Stefanski did a good job in just saying we gotta go with what we know. Uhm, and then figuring it out on the run. They've made some adjustments. Uhm, they have, haven't been perfect. Play call isn't perfect.


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[Assistant] But there is a lot that you could take away from this game that you should like and love and moving forward if you can get the same type of stuff to happen as well as getting the quarterback play together, you might have something special, Jay.


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[Assistant] Yeah. And by the way, careful what you ask for. We was picking on the turnovers. They got four turnovers, but they also gave up 38 points. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It was a weird, it was such a weird game.


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[Assistant] a half point favorite. And I just noticed this week


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[Assistant] Uh, Marvin Harrison has the coldest name, coldest nickname in the game right now. Maserati Marv. That is crazy. I never heard that until yesterday, but I was like, and they was saying it back to back. Like it was Magic Johnson.


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[Assistant] It's gonna be something they're gonna have to deal with and they gotta go out and find somebody. They're not, he's not gonna be able to play like, like he wants to play the entire year. When we talked about when he should come back, I say he should come back Baltimore week. What is that? That's, that's even after the Cardinals game. We can't. I think you shut him down, put him on the IR.


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[Assistant] You lost the right tackle as well. Listen, I said last year on these same airwaves, I said listen, you got six games.


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[Assistant] Huge thing. The Cleveland Browns would have never cut Kate York in years past because they had money invested. Sorry to cut you off, G, but thank God.


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[Assistant] Before last game, I would have said no. I'm seriously considering it. I would.


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[Assistant] Who cares? Listen, I'll take both of your arguments and I like pieces of parts of it. Uhm, saying it doesn't matter because if Deshaun's not there, we're not gonna win is unacceptable.


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[Assistant] That's right. In business, in any part of life, we know this. We work for companies. When something goes wrong, you don't get to sit back and say, well, let's just roll it out because it will, you know, we're not gonna be good anyway. No.


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[Assistant] Somebody at the top is going to say, oh, listen, all hands on deck. What do we got to do? We got to offer overtime. Do we got to bring people in? We got to switch management. What we got to do? They need to get a quarterback in here because four and two.


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[Assistant] Sometimes I wish people would take football like baseball. If you are up


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[Assistant] At the trade deadline, and you are in first place, it is a mandate in baseball that you go get some pieces to make your team better. Yeaah, we already had one team quit on the, on the fans. You four and two, and you showed you can beat the best team in football. There was, it is unacceptable to say, well, we're just gonna hang out and let DTR and what's they play.


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[Assistant] I mean, they ran for a hundred and sixty and a hundred and fifty yards on the ground. Two weeks. I'm not worried about it. That's, that's.


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[Assistant] I like Strong, I thought he ran well, I like he, he hits it up in there and I think Kareem Hunt gets better every week. Now granted, he's still working his way and the blows that he's taking, he can only play about two or three plays in a row right now. Kareem's averaging like three yards of carry. But, you know what, I like him at the goal line. At the goal line? He's great, he's drinking.


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[Assistant] They had a really good game plan. Uh, they, they mixed in the running backs. Uhm, they, they, Gardner Mitchell was doing the... He made some plays. He, he, they had the read option. He was scrambling, extending plays, and he made big plays on third down. It's crazy.


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[Assistant] I mean, you know what, actually to be truthful, I'm, you know, this is in history, you know, I'm always willing to say when you get new information or you revisit things, you are always supposed to amend your opinion. See, I don't like doubling down on negative money. That's just don't work. So I went, you know, McNuggets, we was on the post game show.


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[Assistant] And the fourth down, the, the, not the fourth down, but the, you know, when they're on the goal line. The sequence at the goal line. The sequence at the goal line. So when we're watching the show or whatever, you're looking at the camera, but then you're looking at your TV, but you're looking back and the McNuggets is, is 30 seconds ahead of us. So there's a lot of stuff going on. The sequence that he was going through, I was like,


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[Assistant] Oh no, they can't do this. What are you doing? What are you running the ball? Why are you not running the ball? Well, you had no time out.


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[Assistant] So, then, you know, when you look at it, they didn't have any timeouts during that circumstance. And then, he runs the shovel pass. And at the time, I'm looking at it, I'm like, why, why is he running the shovel pass? And I'm looking at it in the vacuum. I go back and I watch it. Me and McGonagall was arguing. So you go back to that sequence.


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[Assistant] And Mcnuggets was right. You got about 22 seconds, right? You had 33. It's first to go with a 1 with 33 seconds. 33 seconds. If you run the ball there...


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[Assistant] You might get two plays because they're gonna lay on you. They're not gonna let you up. You will get two. You'll definitely get two. And you can't sub. So that means you're gonna have to run the ball twice.


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[Assistant] So you get two runs compared to four plays, which is three, three passes in one run because they were incomplete. So hindsight 2020 going back, looking at it.


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[Assistant] He did the right thing in passing the ball three times, because he always knew that he had to run in his back pocket, and he was going to run on the goal line with no timeouts. So, as Highside 2020 McNuggets was right, he did run the right sequence. However, you can, you can gauge, some people will say if you're purest, I'd rather take


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[Assistant] Always remember, when you get new information, always revisit it. You know, just because you have to correct something don't mean you still not the leader of the Kool-Aid Mafia.


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[Assistant] I'm like, I said, if he, if they do not score, that's the only thing that kept going in my mind. If they gifted you the ball on the one yard line, you got four plays and you don't get in, bye.


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[Assistant] Obviously. Miles Garrett is being allowed to do freaky things and for once the coaching staff has come around to the fact that


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[Assistant] Nobody's physically better than him. Not just that, they're encouraging him to do this. Like jump over other humans, things like that. Come on over here, Miles, on, on, on, on block team. Jump over this dude and block this punt real quick.


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[Assistant] Not to mention, he was very impressive in the run game. That one tackle for loss, they need to look at that. Cause I counted three tackles for losses just in the run game yesterday. Two strip sacks, the touchdown he caused, the dude...


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[Assistant] And even, and even if your defense, that's why I'm slow to criticize, even if the defense didn't play well,


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[Assistant] You still got that guy. Oh no, they didn't play well. Even if, even if defense didn't play well, you still won the game because of defense. Because of him. Because of him.


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[Assistant] It is a foul. I was correct. It is a foul. They said if it's a foul of a defensive player moves forward and tries to block a field goal by leaving his feet and leaping into the plane directly above the frame of the body of an opponent. That's in college. So you can't do it in college, but obviously it's the pros. I didn't know that the rules different. Maybe they'll change it.


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[Assistant] I don't believe the Browns came in there and were cocky or whatever the case may be. These guys get paid too.


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[Assistant] Like Gardner mentioned, that's why I say when you ask who you want, Anthony Richardson or Gardner mentioned playing. This is why I'm always an advocate of going to get you a veteran. He may not be the greatest guy in the world, but guess what? He's not going to do certain things a rookie will do.


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[Assistant] He has some savvy, some oxy. He can get out and move his legs. Like he finds ways to win because he's a savvy backup. The thing that I'm looking at for the Browns


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[Assistant] They, they had poor tackling, right? But it absolutely flows from playing defense. Like, we, we, we were tackling well, right?


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[Assistant] We was shutting people down. We got four turnovers this game, right? So, I mean, you take the good with the bad. You can either say, we gonna shut them down, ain't nobody get no points, or you want the turnovers. Sometimes turnovers come with stuff. So for me, you're not gonna play every game when you gonna shut everybody out. These guys are professionals. They had a really good running game. I liked their game plan. But here's the thing.


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[Assistant] You know that the Browns can turn it up. You know where the Browns A game is, right? So we now know where the Browns C game is. This is what it looks like.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, I started to Sean Watson negative three. Listen, he's about to hear, I got about three more dudes I'm gonna have to pull off the roster. No, no more for me. Yikes. Awful.


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[Assistant] I don't know, you start to feel it. You know how you watch other teams and you watch teams and they may go through adversity and then you like-


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[Assistant] How is this team winning? And then they keep winning and keep winning and you be like, okay, well, this team...


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[Assistant] They might got something going on this year. With all this stuff that's going on with Nick Chubb and Deshaun Watson, the kickers look like he's actually got a kicker. The Browns are finally getting some calls to go their way. Does it seem like this is creeping into a thing where...


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[Assistant] I would start to feel a lot, like they're going into Seattle, right? And right now, for me, I think a lot of people, if you poll the audience, I don't think even the most, the biggest Deshaun Watson fans


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[Assistant] Have faith that you are going to see what you thought you were going to see this year. I think the ship has sailed. On, on this year specifically, if you actually-


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[Assistant] That's it. Big time. If you can kick in Cleveland Brown Stadium and he's watched him kick there against the 49ers, he's like listen. In the rain. In the rain. Yeaah. He's 60 yards on this nice turn. That's child's play. Hey, go head out there, bro.


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[Assistant] If you get her cousins, the Browns, Browns are super world contenders.


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[Assistant] Uhm, I would, I would call Jacoby Brissette for a trade, for off the street Nick Foles.


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[Assistant] And did you hear what he said? Did you hear what he said? Jacobi Brissette was talking to PJ Walker and he said to him, what advice do you have when he found out he was playing? He said, listen, if Amari Cooper is anywhere near in the screen, throw him the ball. Just throw it to him. And he was like, okay, cool.


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[Assistant] Listen, I mean, as a quarterback, you get hit on play action, read option, RPO stuff, you get hit like run in the middle hits. Think about it, you know those hits where you throw the ball, they wrap you up, drive you to the ground, and you either hit your clavicle, your collarbone, or your shoulder. He can't sustain one of those.


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[Assistant] Like, it's just to me, and when Kevin Stefanski said, I was protecting him, I think what he meant was, I don't think you can protect yourself from hits out there.


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[Assistant] Hey man, when you get on that field. Yeah, the testosterone. Them guys down there, you don't want to play with these dudes. They own something else when they play. You're right.


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[Assistant] That was, one was Mark Emerson got, got dumped on. I thought it was Delpit. I thought, eh, watching it


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[Assistant] And by the way, I give them a little bit of insight. We talked about the defense. When, when Denzel Ward went out, that force...


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[Assistant] Greg Newsom to be on, um, Pittman.


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[Assistant] On that, and he missed that tackle on that. And he, and he, Pickman's a big dude, he, that was a terrible, see this is why Jim Schwartz knows best. Stay right in here with these little small guys. It's too, he's too physical for him.


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[Assistant] So, so we'll know if they, if Deshaun don't speak this week, he's not playing.


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[Assistant] Yeah, they're gonna stay tight later. And I don't blame them. They got it together. Yeah. He did it. Hey, listen, shout out, Stephansi was like, yeah, I see that colloquial secrecy can get you out of the game. He was like, no, come on, I'm gonna protect you real quick.


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[Assistant] And PJ Walker at the line of scrimmage is, is a, especially when they're blitzing, bringing more than five. It's almost an automatic set.


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[Assistant] It is crazy. I don't know. I think man, I'm not gonna call it a punt, but if they don't get a quarterback.


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[Assistant] It's very difficult to, you know, to pick the Browns to go in there with PJ Walker in Seattle and win that game.


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[Assistant] I mean, it's the 12th man, it's in Seattle, the Browns are traditionally not played well there, and you don't have the, the, the, the stable running backs. Your running backs is out of here, so, I don't know, unless they plan on going to get somebody, but I don't think they're gonna get nobody. I think it is what it is. You can beat them up.


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[Assistant] Hey man, I'm not, uh, listen, I disagree. I'm not about to let you get adjusted to nothing. I watched Baker Mayfield try to get adjusted for a whole year. See, it didn't work.


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[Assistant] Alright, so I went back, I was watching the show the other day, uh, on replay. I went back and watched it on YouTube and I saw the new open. I was like, oh cool, they got the new open up.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I was not at practice yesterday, but Zach texted me and he was like, it's, no.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, he missed on a lot. There was not a lot of oomph on any of the throws and we still are on the front and even Deshaun himself said it's a four to six week injury and we're only three weeks out.


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[Assistant] So, it's, I, I don't expect him to play either. Uh, when he first said he was talking Wednesday at practice, I thought, okay, well maybe. Uhm, but, when he was talking on Wednesday prior to practice, when he addressed the media, I thought maybe that was a good sign. And I talked to him briefly at his locker.


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[Assistant] After that, it was like, you gotta practice, right? Like, you can't just roll out on Sunday, and he's like, oh, it's the NFL.


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[Assistant] Coming off injury in as much time as he's missed, you would think you'd want him to get a couple of really good practices in. Deshaun missed Wednesday, went through a little bit yesterday. We'll see what happens today. But I think next week is probably a little bit more likely just from the sounds of things. And he said it on Wednesday, if he can't control the ball, he's of no use to anyone. So everything seems short to me.


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[Assistant] To go back to the injury real quick for a second. It's interesting that quarterbacks don't really have a lot of rotator cuff injuries. It's a huge pitching injury obviously in baseball. But even Deshaun said he was trying to do some research on this and there's just not a lot.


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[Assistant] Drew Brees had it, but he also had a torn labrum with a rotator cuff, and he needed surgery. And I asked Deshaun, there's no surgery for this. He said no. It's a microtary, they wouldn't do surgery. Right, Bernie had it.


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[Assistant] And that's why I asked him. I said, are you sure that like it was the hit and it wasn't just from, you've been a quarterback your entire life and so maybe there's some frame in there, but they didn't, they had no reason to look at it until the hit. He said, no, it was the hit. It was all the hit.


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[Assistant] I would caution though, the whole, well if you win, you wait a week. The Browns have no margin for error in terms of giving games away in this AFC race. When he's ready to go, he goes. Period.


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[Assistant] That's right. And that, and that it goes back to what he said when he can control the ball, when he can control it, when he can put it where he wants to go. He said the pain isn't really a factor. He can deal with the pain. That's what Bernie said too. Yeah. He said, it's not about, I can deal with the pain, but if I can't control where the ball's going, then I'm of no use to my teammates. And he's a hundred percent right. That's true. So as soon as he can control it,


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[Assistant] I think he's back. I don't think you look and play the schedule game of, okay, well, we know this one and this one so we can afford if we lose that one, that's okay. They can't look at it that way. As soon as he's ready to play, as soon as you can control the ball, he's got to be back out.


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[Assistant] Not allowed us to really grade what they have at receiver because outside of one game, they've had terrible quarterback play all year long. But Watson was there for three of them.


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[Assistant] He's in the neighborhood. I've benched him this week. I have him in our league. I've benched him going against the Browns. Smart move. Yeah.


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[Assistant] The only concern to me is that there's two of them so they can stay fresh longer. That's my concern as well.


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[Assistant] Really, can their offensive line create enough of a push on this Brown's defensive line to create holes for these guys to get through? I'm, no, I don't think so. But the fact that there's two of them, and they can rotate, and we'll see how much they do that, because Taylor obviously is just coming back.


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[Assistant] You know, that remains to be seen, but outside the fact that there's two of them, I don't, I don't think this Colts offense is good enough to move the ball on the Browns. I have very little concerns about Indianapolis' offense.


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[Assistant] When should Dashawn return? I wanna go back to the Baker thing because I've seen this a couple of times and I don't think I've talked about it with you since you've been on.


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[Assistant] To me, Baker played last year because he did not have a, a couple years ago because he didn't have a contract.


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[Assistant] And the Browns and Baker were trying to figure out a contract. Deshaun has the contract. How much of a difference does that make when you've got that kind of money guaranteed in a guy in terms of when you bring him back as opposed to a couple years ago when there was no long-term guarantee and you were trying to figure out what he was worth?


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[Assistant] I mean, you don't have a ton invested in him, but obviously I still think he's the long-term option here. So do you have to do anything to rebuild him? Do you go back to him at some point or how do you just sort of restore if he lost it? Maybe he didn't lose any confidence in that one game, but it was pretty bad. So how do you go about sort of putting him back together?


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[Assistant] So how do you know it's the right time? How do you know it's time to give them another chance?


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[Assistant] But I get his point. Jim Trussell, Jim Trussell, I remember the game at NC State in 2004. Low scoring game.


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[Assistant] And he said, he told, I forget who the quarterback was. It was after Krenzel. He said, don't screw up our three. Like that was the mindset. Just don't, don't turn it over. We'll take the field goal. Right. We're really going back to old school football, but don't mess up my three. But this at the moment is an old school type of football. That's how, you know, they need to win.


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[Assistant] We're looking at what we were trying to touch. What's up? You want a little, little practice throwing update? Yeaah. He's throwing today? Zach said, Zach Jackson said, Deshaun first in line, made all his usual practice throws.


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[Assistant] I still think they're going to be conservative. This is only three weeks. And the timeline that Deshaun gave us was 4-6. I think they'll be smart and conservative with them.


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[Assistant] Sunday will be four weeks of the injury. Well, I still think you rest him one more. But it certainly feels like it's trending towards him playing against Seattle.


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[Assistant] And I'll go back to what I said earlier, if he can control it, you put him out there. You deal with the pain, you don't, you don't consider this, hey, we won last week, we can get by. No. As soon as he can control it, he feels okay, he goes out there and plays.


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[Assistant] Do you think it's an all or nothing? No, I, I, if he's, if he can go, he's gonna go.


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[Assistant] I don't think they start with PJ. And if he can't, then he won't at all. No, if PJ starts and he looks awful, I think it's going to DTR. If Deshawn can go, he's gonna go. Alright, very good. I'm starting to lean toward maybe he is gonna go. I'll tell you what. Only because of like, I told him, like we talked.


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[Assistant] I'm not even going off the Mary Kay tweet right now necessarily. I just think...


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[Assistant] What other information is leading you to think, well, I'm just watching some of these videos come out and he's got, there's more zip on the ball today. There's definitely more zip on the ball.


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[Assistant] The coaches will know if it's the right thing. In his mind and the coaches, if he can control it, if he can put it where it needs to go, he's gonna play.


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[Assistant] And it's also worth stating, again, like Zach tweeted, so we don't know if he's really going to cut it loose today or not. If he really cuts it loose today, feels okay tomorrow.


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[Assistant] I wanted to ask you as a former player, what's more difficult you think for a receiver, a sideline catch or going over the middle in traffic knowing you're going to get hit?


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[Assistant] I think a part of the problem, this wouldn't explain why it was better before, but the fact in college you only need one. So these guys their whole life are used to getting one down. But it was that way before. That's why I'm saying.


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[Assistant] Gun to my head, I would have guessed that the Browns lead the league in man coverage.


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[Assistant] I was kinda, I didn't have the numbers to back it up, but I kinda was going along the lines of what you just showed us.


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[Assistant] But it was against a good team, but I, I, I do think I'll give away the little bit of headline. I do think the Browns are going to win this game, but.


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[Assistant] Definitely. I think that, I think it's, it's speed with the receivers. I agree, I agree. The ability to run away from guys. That's what it shows.


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[Assistant] I think you can always find the anomaly and maybe there's an explanation for it, but by and large, to me, the biggest factor is speed and being able to run away from guys. How many times do we see the Browns get caught from behind? All the time, every time.


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[Assistant] Real quick, Mike, did you say the Colts best run was behind their left tackle last week?


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[Assistant] I just got that. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Those are the ribs. You just got what? The 14. Apple, the iPhone 14. Is that the newest one? 15 is the new one.


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[Assistant] Well, the Browns should win the game regardless of whether it's PJ Walker or Deshaun. I personally think Deshaun should sit another week. You know, I, I just, I, I don't see the need to bring him back at this point.


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[Assistant] PJ Walker is not great. We've been over that time and again. He makes terrible decisions with the ball. The Cardinals though, sort of waved the flag last week when they traded Josh Dobbs, uh, and they, they basically pivoted for their season. And, and so I, I think the Cardinals are, they can bring pressure better than I think people realize. They can bring pressure on the quarterback.


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[Assistant] And, and so from that perspective, PJ, if it's PJ or Deshawn is going to have to make good decisions with the ball.


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[Assistant] But the Browns should win this game regardless of who the quarterback is. You're at home.


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[Assistant] Uh, you're coming off a tough game that you probably should have won. And, and so I, I just feel like being at home.


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[Assistant] I think we've been fooled enough with this whole thing that until you see it, how can you? And that sort of, you know, goes back to why I'm a little surprised they didn't make a move last week. Forget the trade deadline. When they didn't make a move for a quarterback last week, I kind of assumed, okay, well then they're not going to pursue a quarterback.


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[Assistant] But I just don't know how you can have faith that Deshaun is going to be number one healthy and two, healthy for the rest of the year. What evidence do you have of that? This is, I mean, we've heard Bernie talk about how it's going to linger. Like this is.


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[Assistant] I, I, I don't see how you can have any faith that he's gonna be back to 100% by the end of the year.


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[Assistant] I just don't think that's very realistic. So you're sort of operating without a net here.


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[Assistant] Uh, but gee, going back to one thing that you said earlier, I do think we could see the DTR package sort of expanded in this. They sort of dabbled with it a little bit. Seattle ran them out there. I could, I could see something where he's out there for not a series, but for, for a gadget play or just a,


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[Assistant] Really, I think what you're trying to do is you're trying to give Baltimore and Pittsburgh something that they gotta worry about. Even if they gotta spend 10 minutes, 15 minutes on it in a practice, that's 10 or 15 minutes less than they're prepared for something else. So you're using this game to try and show Baltimore and Pittsburgh, just give them a little something else to think about. So I do think that we can see a DTR moment.


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[Assistant] If at all? I think it will. Is it? Yeah. I mean, you're talking four to six week injury. We're now what? Six weeks? Are we at the six week mark now? I think this is six weeks.


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[Assistant] Well, and he looked terrible. Right. So I do think that the extra week matters because he looks so awful. Yeaah. Two weeks, you know, you're talking about 33% more. If he's had two weeks off, you know, add one more week to that. I think it would make it, for me, if I'm in charge, I'm sitting them. But we've said, you just said,


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[Assistant] You sort of went where I was thinking, you guys remember what Deshaun looked like against Houston last year coming back after a long layoff? It was a disaster. And this is a significant knee injury. You don't know where his mental is. Can he go off that knee?


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[Assistant] Does he have the confidence in it? And I saw Drew Pencing, the Brown's old, uh, quarterback's coach who's now Arizona's OC said this week, it'd sort of be like playing a game July 28th. That's how many practices Kyler's had. So, so for that reason, you know, I think I'd be a little bit surprised if he plays, if Kyler plays.


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[Assistant] Uh, on Sunday, just, I, he just hadn't had a lot of practice reps. So is he better than Clayton Toon? Yeah. Okay. Probably sure.


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[Assistant] But I don't think it's a drastic difference at this point just because of how much time he's missed, the injuries coming off, and the fact that he really hasn't had a lot of practice reps yet.


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[Assistant] If you told me the Cardinals quarterback ended with 250 passing yards, I'm going to guess it's Kyler Murray that played and not Clayton too. I would agree with that. I would agree with that. So from that, I mean, certainly the ceiling is higher with Kyler. Way higher. I just think like Browns fans more than anyone have seen.


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[Assistant] What it looks like when you're coming back mid-season after a long layoff when everyone else is rolling and in rhythm and you're starting from scratch.


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[Assistant] They're trying to get two quarterbacks ready and they had neither ready with, with the Sean and DTR though Baltimore week. That's when, you know, I think I said on the show, the Sean took all the run reps and DTR took all the pass reps. So when you try to get too ready, you don't get any. And I don't know how it's going in Arizona. You know, I don't know if.


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[Assistant] If Kyler splitting the starters reps with Clayton or if Clayton's getting all of them, but it does make a difference, especially in the situation you're talking about where you're a young guy.


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[Assistant] Trying to make your first start. Obviously you want as many reps as possible to be ready to go.


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[Assistant] But at the same time, you're trying to gauge how far away the veteran is.


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[Assistant] I love the Giants. What kind of bump do you get when you fire the GM, the head coach, and the OC?


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[Assistant] Speaking of Arizona, Tim, they've got their own quarterback issues to try and sort through. Would you rather, as a young guy, as a young quarterback, would you rather have all week knowing you're going to be the starter? Or do you want to just find out Friday, Saturday, okay, you're the guy where you don't have as much time to sort of overthink it.


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[Assistant] We're on to Arizona, but we haven't had a chance to talk to you since Seattle, so I'm just wondering your thoughts on...


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[Assistant] The third and three call to throw it, number one, and then number two, the decision PJ made with the ball where he went. There was other guys that looked like they were getting open if he could have held it for a second longer. Just your thoughts on the throw on third and three and then PJ's decision where he went with it.


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[Assistant] Tim, who's call is this on Sunday on whether Deshaun plays? We may have asked you this in the past, but is, if Deshaun says I'm good, does he go and how much?


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[Assistant] Does ownership play a role in these types of decisions? Cause I don't think that gets talked about enough. I know ownership was part of the reason Baker kept running out there last year because they needed to make a decision on him in terms of a long-term contract. But in a situation like this where the contract is settled,


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[Assistant] Who has final say on whether Deshaun plays and how does this, how does this work?


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[Assistant] The part that I think is concerning is that the last two weeks have given up, what, 31 points? 31 points. That's concerning. That's terrible. Because it's the most recent.


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[Assistant] But if you look at their, the part that's a little weird with this is if you look at their sort of advanced metrics, the defensive EPA expected points allowed, they're still among the leaders for first quarter. They're up there with the 49ers and some of the other elite defenses that you would think, but then on the point side, they're at the bottom. So that part,


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[Assistant] I think that they're giving up sixes instead of threes. You know, when you're giving up touchdowns and the other teams giving up field goals, that's how that can happen where your EPA may be high but your actual


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[Assistant] So I think more than anything, it's just they had really bad starts the last two weeks is how I look at it defensively. And really it's nothing more than that until we have more data to see.


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[Assistant] When we did the interview with Jay Gruden, you know, I asked Jay about that and Jay said, I think it was Bill Belichick.


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[Assistant] Who said basically you just want to survive that first descriptive place. Just survive.


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[Assistant] Get through those and then you can sort of, then you settle into the game once you get off script. Because both teams spend so much time on that script. And what's interesting about the script,


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[Assistant] Is it's, I don't want to get off topic here, but it's not necessarily the first 15 play calls of the game are the script. If you get a penalty on the kickoff and you're back up to the goal line, you're not running the script. So it may take you a long time to get through those scripted plays. It's not necessarily just.


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[Assistant] But I think with the Browns defensively, a lot of that might be what Jay was talking about. Just survive that, just get through that, see what the other team's doing, and then go from there.


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[Assistant] Sure, and I mean if Arizona comes out and runs dirt down the field on them. Well yeaah, there's no excuse there. That's a problem. And I guess if you...


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[Assistant] I disagree with this. Sometime in the next hour. I think this is a bad move. I think they need to set him another week. He can win this game without him and we've seen nothing to this point to indicate that he's healthy and ready to go. I think he should sit another week and bring him back against Baltimore.


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[Assistant] Well, when your quarterback throws interceptions every time he goes down the field, the only thing he can do is turn around and dump it onto the screen.


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[Assistant] Who's a better 4th quarterback? Kenny Pickett or Pat Mahomes? Who would you rather have?


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[Assistant] That's why I'm fine with 4 and 3 because you could easily make a case for 2 and 5. You could just as easily make a case for 6 and 1. Yeaah, so 4 and 3 is probably about what they should be.


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[Assistant] You can't. It's November. Like, he could blow out a knee. Yeaah, that's true.