[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's actually happening is that those electrodes on the right side are connected to the user's arms and there's a little computer that has simulated the sketches and they're sending tiny electrical impulses that cause the user's arm to move left or right involuntarily and to draw on the paper. So for a second, as crazy as that might sound, as Michael mentioned,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For a second, you sort of seed your arm's control to the computer. It takes over and there's a little bit of a turn-taking thing and it outputs the wind-flow simulation. And the person actually continues to work on this for about 10 minutes and they really drill down and find that it's the tailwinds that are the problem. I invite you to watch this or any of the videos on YouTube if you're interested in the rest of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the last hundred years or so, which is really, you know, a much broader lens than most folks tend to take.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then there was a fantastic revolution, you know, uh, powered by many, many, many pioneers in HCI. Of course, Douglas Engelbart is one of the most famous in this territory in which the computer starts to change and shift size and sort of equals the user. And now it's sitting eight hours in your office.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I'm trying to depict here is that notice, every shift in interface affords us to do completely new things. It's really big and we know it doesn't stop here, right? If I shift this to today,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're with wearable devices. Sometimes in my intro to HCI class, I joke with my students the first years and say, well, you know, you take this, two Velcro straps, put it here. That doesn't seem like a great invention. You call it a smart watch or a wearable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it truly is a great invention because what you are now able to do with something touching your skin 24-7 is very different from just in your pocket, right? And so no wonder that all of you that have smartwatches use


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now if you believe this bubble analogy where sort of the device becomes smaller first and then sort of starts to approximate the user's body to the point that the wearable is sort of like that first initial contact just with the skin, then you might ask all kinds of questions, right? For example, what would happen?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we design for that overlap over there, where the two circles sort of integrate. And that's what I'm gonna talk about today. And I think the first example that I picked for you today with the muscle plotter is an extreme example of that integration.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because, you know, the system kind of intentionally borrows parts of the user's body, in this case the muscles, to really perform its function. If you would ask, you know, an exam-type question, please indicate all the hardware components of muscle plotter. At some point, you have to say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so that's the type of connection that I'm going to explore here today with this idea of devices that integrate with the body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I'm gonna just kinda lead you a little bit historically with my work because it kind of tells a larger story of why I'm interested in these things. And so the first...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Track of research I started doing along these lines of bodily integration with wearable devices is about the question of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Visually is very, very impressive. Like I never actually thought I would see that and that came, you know, within 10 years of me saying, I don't think we'll ever see photorealism. And now we're there. This is actually, we're showing two scenes here, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] While the visual realism is immense, this illusion breaks down really easily if I start to try to interact with this and expect physicality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I go to that Lake Tahoe mountain and try to push through that wall over there, I know that there's no way that 300 buck headset that I bought at Target has any hardware whatsoever to provide that physical force feedback, that realism of touching a resistive force and just my hand sort of standing there at the wall of that chest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, that's one of the things that I think today is sort of stopping VR from becoming a really, really immersive training simulation for learning physical skills. It's fantastic for gaming, but if you actually want to learn physical skills to transfer it to the real world, we need that type of sensation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Perhaps if we go directly to the body, we don't need huge batteries and motors and so forth. And so we wanted to do


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A still very realistic force feedback device, but with all, without the constraints and trying to circumvent physics in a creative way, right, trying to really get the same output force even.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so what I'm going to show you here is how we got inspired by medicine and neuroscience and took this technique that exists since the 60s really called electrical muscle stimulation in which you apply a tiny little electrical impulse over a pair of electrodes. In this case if you would apply it over these two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your hand actually kind of moves upwards like that. Alright, this is an involuntary reaction that works just because muscles are tiny electrical machines and they always do that in the presence of an electrical current. Now you can put these things together and think, okay,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's just one of electrical muscle stimulation bracelets. There's all the normal things you would expect here. You know, there's a little Arduino microcontroller that talks to the VR application over wireless or Bluetooth in this case. And really the key part is this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is the same thing doctors are using, right, the medical grade muscle stimulator except in this case we're just controlling digitally rather than with the knobs and then there's batteries. Now, the fun part is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This stuff here, you all know very well. This is all solid state electronics. This is all normal components. Moore's law operates here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Talked a lot about how people train to do things. I don't know if you have to do fire training safety here. I'm sure you do. We do that every year in Chicago. And it's those things that you watch a video for 10 minutes and then you click, yes, I know how to act in the case of a fire, which is not exactly the same as knowing how to act in the case of a fire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Unite system detects that, they've dwelled too long on that, it uses the muscle stimulation on their neck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually teaches a fire safety. If the fire breaks in the ceiling, always evacuate. There's no point in taking out a fire that is in the ceiling and that system also tells you where the fire exit is at by like showing you with your head where you should go. It's really, really fun. Again,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People in robotics have been doing this forever. We got inspired by them, really. Like, the idea of head actuation is there before. But the type of hardware is very prohibitive for an application like training. I mean, this is really a medical rehabilitation exoskeleton that you can only use in particular conditions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so people in HCI of course have figured this out. This is again really important for training. Uhm, what they use is any kind of like mechanical device that can do that. For example, this is a heat lamp.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's actually happening is we're pulverizing a tiny, tiny bit of smell in their nose. And now you're wondering, well, smell doesn't feel like temperature. That has nothing to do, these two sensory systems have nothing to do with one another. But let me just zoom in the nose for a second and talk about these weird receptors that we have in our nose and by the way, all over our skin. You know, if you heat them up,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We must be feeling temperature somehow, so there's a little temperature sensor in our skin receptors that fires, of course, to indicate what temperature we're feeling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then what about chemicals? So what about when you go to the Indian restaurant and have spicy food? Don't you feel hot? So what's happening there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Turns out these receptors at a cellular level have also a chemical mechanism that fires. The only reason why when you're having spicy food and you know it's the spicy food and not temperature is because the contextual cues are very obvious. You're like we're eating. That particular cell has no idea if we're eating or not. Happy to talk about the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is an illusion, so it's much weaker than real temperature, but, I mean, the power consumption is ridiculous. We just need to activate this little ultrasonic emitter and get a droplet flowing in the air. James.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it should be localized, which is one of the downsides of this. So not true room temperature type things. I think in conjunction with the visuals in VR, it starts to make this feeling of spreading, but it's an illusory feeling. So awesome question. And again, what I'm emphasizing here is the same trick, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the skin cells. So you can do cooling, uhm, here in the cheeks. This is actually a fantastic experience. If you ever, like, go to my lab, please ask Jasmine for that cooling one. It feels already cold when your cheeks are receiving mental over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We just had a discussion the other day about years because also you use that to thermoregulate, so it could actually help people that have problems thermoregulating. We have not tried it, so I would love to actually. It's really, really fantastic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At this point I want to emphasize that we're kind of, I'm tricking you a little bit because I talked about integration with computers, I talked about desktops, wearables, all those systems have input and output. And then I'm just showing you a haptics talk where I only talk about output and it feels a little misleading. So I think the next step in my research was sort of to close this loop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And imagine the same question, integrated devices with a body, but now this time they can do input and output. What would it mean to compute like a variable or feel a variable through my body alone? You know, not sense of vision and so forth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I could show you all kinds of older work, but I actually want to sort of sidestep a little bit to the more recent things where we're really looking at how can we assist folks with acquisition of skills. Say you want to learn how to play piano.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now I want to emphasize, and this applies to all the muscle stimulation stuff, this is really, really difficult to do with a lot of precision.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Although it can follow the trajectory very well, notice how much it jitters. It cannot stop very well. It can go really well and can reach a target but it has no idea how to stop at that target and stay there. It's a very difficult control problem and a lot of actually biomechanical people look at this


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By now sort of taking a full loop and being inspired by the exoskeleton approach. This is actually work that Yuji helped do in my lab when she just joined and was spearheaded by Romain with the help of Shen Yuan. And so here we're trying to take the muscle stimulation to the next level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not only were we able to do individual fingers, but stop at very precise angles. The kind of thing you would need if you wanted to automatically learn how to do a guitar chord.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in this case, the left hand of Romain is controlled by the muscle stimulation plus a small mechanical device that assists with stopping in the right place. So he didn't create that chord, he's just strumming along.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yuji and Romain are talking. Romain has no idea about American Sign Language and he's using a little translator application to film Yuji and understand what she asked. She asked, what's your major? He's going to respond just textually, HCI, Human-Computer Interaction. And what's happening is that that data gets sent to the glove.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the glove now decides which fingers are free to move.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now each finger should be locked in place. And so now it doesn't matter how precise your muscle stimulation is, because if there's a movement that would accidentally be created,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's locked and it can't happen, right? So we selectively choose which fingers are free, which fingers are locked, and the resulting movements, if you speak sign language, will look not great again, but the best we would ever be able to do. So here you can see the mechanical brakes. This one is locking and locking just so you can see the ratchet pawl mechanism just for a second.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's play the rest of that video. How does that feel like to the participant? That seems almost stupid to do, right? How does that feel like? And here's how it feels like. And this is the story actually how I met Jun. This is his work, by the way. He did this. He took it to SIGGRAPH. That's where we met. And people in his demo were like, this sounds very cool, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your reaction time. Can we give you that benefit? Right? Maybe you're avoiding danger, not touching a power line that is high voltage or whatever it is. But we want to do that while you still have some sense of agency. We're training the drumming, moving the piano. You want to move, the system wants to move, intentions are aligned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you do it very slowly, but completely by yourself, maximum sense of agency, you know, you're doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you would say, well, if I assist Michael to go faster, he's immediately going to report I didn't do it. And then I asked,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Turns out that's not the case. That's what we found out in this CHI-19 paper, uhm, by this experiment that obviously is not as exciting as a pen drop, but is more control that you can actually do these measurements very precisely. And then the sense of agency that you see,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But oh sorry, but I want to emphasize that 50-50 trade-off and I came up with that semi out of the blue in that paper and I didn't know if I was right here. But what I said is what if I want to get motivated by doing the task? Maybe I want to pick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Having some speed up, but still feeling like half agency, and a lot of reviewers and people are like, half agency doesn't exist. And I said, but maybe it motivates people a little bit. You know, the speed up is not as tremendous than I could have with this system, but I want to have a little bit of feeling that I'm doing. It's sort of like ownership and volition.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'll show you that is important later. Uhm, so here's the pen drop with someone that's actually thinking that they did it. We're delaying the simulation by 80 milliseconds. This has to be tuned per participant. For this person, 80 milliseconds is sort of like a really nice number for them to fully believe it. And actually later, uhm, with Shinichi again, we found something crazy remarkable, which is actually we can


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Take, so we train different groups of people, one of them trained with very fast muscle stimulation, how to perform a reaction time test, and another one with this delayed muscle stimulation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Only the group that was delayed, when we took out the electrodes later, they come back the next day and they perform the reaction time test again, they actually had a speed up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Placebo group, no, no clear speed up all over the place. Training by yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, no placebo, but trained by yourself. No speed up. Super fast muscle stimulation. The thing that June was doing, right, with the, it goes as fast as the camera sees. No speed up. So the motivation, and we ask participants, like, why do you think this helps you? And they're like, well,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not only HCI, you know, inform neuroscience and psychology, but how can we in HCI also be informed by those fields and the advancements in those fields are tremendous for us to unlock better devices, more design, you know, more agency and so forth and so forth. So I'm a really big proponent of that part too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want to emphasize that this optimization of the sense of agency is only during the movement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Notice that the person's intention is already aligned with the machine. We tell them your job is to catch the pen or to hit the target, right? If the intention wasn't aligned, that's this paper. Things get more complicated, of course. I'm not going to talk too much about that, but it sort of like drops more dramatically the agency if it does the thing you don't want it to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the other part that we're working on is also we want to ensure control


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So over here you see a person, she always has control with her non-actuated limb to turn on, turn off the system. By the way, there's a paper that's coming out where people make caramel while they write an essay and the muscle stimulation helps them make the caramel. I'll talk about it later if you want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this one, uh, affordance++ is an older work of mine where people learn how to operate tools. This person picks up a spray can and the spray can automatically starts shaking to tell you, you should shake a spray can before you use it. And in this case, if you move fast outside of the location where the muscle stimulation


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Any movement they do outside of the area of the muscle control, for example catching a flying pen, in this case immediately just turns off the muscle stimulation. So there's more work to be done here, but I just want to emphasize that this is an active area where us and a few others too are really interested in trying to understand how to provide more agency to the system, but also more control.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that perhaps we can do another thing with this hat on of post wearables and integrating with the body, which is solve some problems that I think have been plaguing us for a little bit. And I don't know if you've noticed, but I kind of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I proposed a solution, I didn't solve it, but I proposed a solution to the forced haptics problem, right? So we want to have forces in VR, but the VR headsets are very untethered, very relaxed and what not, and with muscle stimulation perhaps there's a path to the future by, you know, not having to rely on motors and batteries and doing the smaller version of the device.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now there is another really, really big problem and it's great that the Apple device just came out because now we can talk about this problem with even more importance. Which is that we'll also want to feel tactile sensations when we touch virtual objects. That person over there, she's fixing a real engine, she's in the HoloLens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The problem is that this is sort of where industry is selling us. It's these tactile gloves that completely cover your finger pads.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so now you're having to actually having to choose between virtual world or shaking someone's hand or actually fixing the engine, which is the task at hand in this case. So one thing we've been exploring is this kind of almost paradoxical type of haptics where we want to do deliver sensations to the finger pad or to any target area. We want to keep that area free.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is strange because normally you need to put the device in the area you want to stimulate, like the finger pad. So what you see here is actually a paper we published last year at CHI by my student Yudai Tanaka. And you can see here someone climbing in VR.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Climbing a rope, and they can feel the texture of the rope, they can have full dexterity to grasp and doesn't slip, but they can also feel that virtual peg hold as they sort of start bouldering and grabbing that wall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the way that that happens is the muscle stimulation, which in this case is called electrical tactile stimulation, is in the back of the hands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can we do this bizarre idea of haptics with finger pads free? So all those devices leave the finger pads and sometimes even the feet sort of free to feel real sensations, to walk in the real world and not fall and so forth, so forth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we're getting very close to the end. I just want to give you some takeaway messages.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's also an improvement in size. So all these devices that I'm showing here, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, of course we can cheat this whole thing with the muscle stimulation, yes, we can instrument the thing, tossing machine connected to the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Finger that controls the shutter, and now we can take the photo. But remember, we want to make people feel like they're doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we're going to delay the muscle stimulation, again in this case by 80 milliseconds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the person not only takes the photo but they actually feel like they did it or partially they did it and they get motivated to learn the skill better. So, right in the center of the photo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and remember, I think it's really interesting that if you take it out, this was training. This was physical training that remained in some kind of muscle memory that you have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which one he focuses on? One is done by muscle stimulation. He's playing the drum pad by himself. And the other one, oh sorry, muscle stimulation is playing the drum pad. He's playing the piano.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's kind of what you see over there when they're testing out the different grips and they solve different problems to this. I'm not saying this is better. I'm saying this is different. They solve different problems.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kind of see if we can learn their language, can we speed up the way we learn their language, understand the micro cues they use when they move their hands. So this is Jun actually learning how to move his hands through a proctectile individual who's showing him how he moves his hands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, I know I focused a lot, and this is pretty much my last slide, focused a lot on, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this idea is really interesting because it makes people like consider the interactions and the relationships they have with the device. Like participants in this study who live with this watch for a month were really scared of letting it die, trashing it, and started to think of the environmental impact of electronics and all that. So it's a really interesting


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, I just want to, final slide, thank the sponsors, thank really these people here, this is, you know, who made it all possible, I'm just sort of rolling the message in their behalf, and of course, many of the folks who are not in our lab anymore, but are wonderful people, and some of them are here, like you do. Uhm, thank you so much, and if you have questions, I'm happy to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cia is up to this person. Cia is doing that right now because I agree with you. And I've talked to Jakob, a neuroscientist friend of mine who did some work on fMRI and muscle stimulation, and he agrees with the two of us too, which is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Different movements and different parts of your body that you're normally not using so much. So in a pilot that we did for these drumming things, we invited a professional drummer who did not like the muscle stimulation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then they were super interested in making the movements random and they said to us, you know, oh, I never thought of moving in that way or hitting the symbol in this sort of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your body in a new way, but it's all speculation because we haven't done that yet, but I love that idea very much. Oh, sorry, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so Yuda and I have been working on that. So what you see here actually is uhm, a person receiving haptic feedback by means of muscle stimulation, except the stimulation is happening in their brain. So those movements are involuntary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'll just skip to the interesting part. That device that they are wearing on their head over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a transcranial stimulation coil, so it's a magnetic stimulator that is on their heads, and that generates a sensation on the end point that you want it to be, but you sort of have to hit the right part of the motor cortex. It's another type of calibration, but there are no electrodes, right? So we're just thinking if this is also a viable approach to do this without electrodes. That being said, this is very big and scary, so, you know, to think about other parts with this tool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It can build some muscle force and that's great for older adult population because they start to have less muscle sort of, you know, strength and power, but it works.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we learn, we don't just learn the amount of force, we learn everything. The position of the piano keys and etc, etc. We've actually tried


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so I think you're right. I think we want to use this, we want to use the idea of promoting finger pad free to push people into doing physical skills that are joyful and really, really, really tangible. Uh, more than virtual type of things, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How would our experiences with learning physical skills change if someone had this at like, you know, at school? If you could learn, as you were pointing out, with tangible and physical ways at school. If I was doing muscle plotter, I didn't show you but there's an application of muscle plotter where people are actually typing polynomial equations and it just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Local maxima where we think computers helped us tremendously to learn new things, but there is even a bigger maxima over here if we continue and try to bring back some of the physicality that we lost by over relying on the visuals. They're great, but I'm not sure if they are the only way to learn. There's a lot of people that need to learn physically with physical metaphors and physical analogies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I would love to do. I don't know if it's implanted or something crazy, just to, to, to provoke, to go to a provocation, but, but I would love to try that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the sort of like wear on the muscles and all that, this has been used for so long, the muscle stimulation, I'm now pointing at the transcranial, this is more recent, but since the 90s, uhm, the other one since the 60s, that we know very much that there is no downside to the muscle side.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You could get into a situation where just like how can you maybe hurt yourself by going to the gym and doing too repetitive strain movements, that can happen too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you asked even a subsequent question which is more interesting. If you do the kind of accelerated reaction times, what happens in the long run? That I agree with you that I don't know the answer because it's somewhat literally. Uhm, our feeling is that that even promotes the fact that we shouldn't do too much acceleration.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We should do these inching increments like what we're doing when we're delaying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To make it closer to your natural resonance somehow and to sort of help you guide the way. Uhm, so I would definitely suggest not doing the extreme and sort of doing the one that is closer to the person. I think if people are reporting agency, that's actually a positive signal for us and we should respect that somehow and say, then let's go that way rather than the extreme way. Yeah. Wonderful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What do we do now? I'm going in and talk to him. He's got to go on. That's all there is to him. Only one thing to do, men. Kill the laughing cowboy. That's what I've been saying all along. We gotta get that Indian, too. He's bad medicine, that red deer. I'll take care of him. Leave him to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are these conclusions about ExxonMobil's history of prom- of promoting and funding climate science denial despite its internal awareness of the reality of climate change during your tenure with the company true or false?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm asking you whether those allegations about ExxonMobil's knowledge of climate science and decision to fund and promote a view contrary to its awareness of the science, whether those allegations are true or false.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No? Well perhaps I've lost my touch. Living in a country like this one's apt to rusticate. But we'll see eye to eye before we're through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Find an example of careful cross breeding without an alien strain. Oh, German. You know, for all their faults, the Germans understand the value of biology and the lessons


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm as much in the dark as you are. You think your cousin killed him?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well now, she has a very dangerous temper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And from what I know of their lives together, she certainly had every reason to. What do you intend to do about it? No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With your connivance, Mr. Shane, I intend to keep quiet until we have further evidence to go. After all, nobody can actually prove she was in the house. I can prove that she was in the house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You not only seem to have the privilege of choosing your own assignments, but you have the enviable faculty of being on the grounds when the crime takes place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've no intention of letting you barge in here upsetting all my plans. Deli will have some connection with my cus-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not going to make love to you again Leslie dear, if that's what you mean. Why don't you be sensible?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The temperature of your blood, Mr. Shane, to me is a matter of supreme indifference. Leslie has probably told you our little secrets by now. So I'm afraid that she'll have to go too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A three-year investigation by the Justice Department found what it called unconstitutional policing and a pervasive culture of discriminatory bias against Latinos.


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[Assistant] Oh, I hated running when I was in like high school and you had to do it for like the mile or whatever and like you just immediately taste like metallic salt in the back of your throat or whatever that is and you're just like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, wha- like, why not just have twice the amount of recess where we can get exercise as opposed to being like, NOW RUN IN A CIRCLE!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, he's cool. Oh, he's awesome! I'm so happy to see him! Uh, uh, where do I go?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I, maybe I'll just, uh, shimmy sham over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, come on buddy. Take a swing, bitch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got that- oh, what if I stand in between the columns?


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[Assistant] Oh look at that! Look at that! Okay. Now we are cooking with gas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, that was a direct hit. Right onto my body. Well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, yeaah. Okay, nice. No, aggro! Don't bother answering that. I was thinking about other shit.


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[Assistant] I'm sure that the ants here are just as friendly as the ants farther down. Now what's wrong with that place over there?


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[Assistant] You've been away a long time. Your being a detective comes in handy.


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[Assistant] That perhaps I'd be Mr. Wickfield's partner one day. It was kind of you to say so.


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[Assistant] A humble person like me remembers things like that. And now it's true. I'm glad to think I've been able to help poor Mr. Wickfield. Oh, how very careless he has been. If I hadn't been his assistant


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No Jumper, coolest podcast in the world. And today we have a long awaited fan favorite on the goddamn podcast, Oliver Francis.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so are you concerned about perhaps, uh, inconsistent branding? Is this something that you, uh, thought about a lot? Why, why do you hate Francis so much?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It just seems to me like, if there was like a dude that you knew and he had like a couple million plays on some of his shit, he had like videos on YouTube that were popping, he had some Instagram followers, wouldn't you like, be interested? I wouldn't know that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One day you're like John Travolta and the next day you're friggin... One day you're John Travolta and uh...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Happy day, what the fuck was he, what was he, fuck. Saturday Night Fever. Yes, one day you're him and the next day it's like John Travolta now with like a block of like wax hair on his head.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My parents wanted me in that kind of environment because they thought that like the Catholic environment that they grew up in was too strict.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, subprime mortgage crisis of 2008. Like we had a big house. And everything went away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really? Yeah, but it was cool. So what'd your parents go into doing at that point?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, what lessons did you take from her? Like how did you change as a person? Did you become like a fundamentally different person? Did you look back and say like, oh, I was, I was acting like a different kind of person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you were a kid though, what kind of, like, were you a popular kid? Were you a fuckin' weirdo? Loser?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What do you think of Billy Joel Armstrong as a person? Is he a hero? Do you still?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What was the lyric that they edited out of the time of my life? There's like, it's like switch blades on the floor or something like that. And they like edit it out. It's like a suicide reference. Sounds bloody nigga.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See, that's like after I got out of hardcore, but I still like, I have friends who listen to hardcore that have put me on to some of that stuff and it's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, okay. Have you ever considered like bringing the two stepping into the rap game? I think it could be good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was you? Oh, because you don't want to put yourself out there and be like that weirdo who's on zero. Yea, I didn't want to be the kid who's from


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, and so is she part of the allure of Oliver Francis? Like is she directly tied into it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we woke up or whatever. Is she public facing? Like is she on like Twitter and Instagram and everybody knows what she's doing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not quite as bad as like, you know, living together and then breaking up and having to like keep living together for a while, but the phone plan is still like, I had a girl that I was with when I got Tony the cat, boom, I'm having to go over and give her money for cat food and stuff, cat child support.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What? She got married like, in like a weird casino? She got married at a Diplo show?


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[Assistant] And YouTube itself is just such a giant platform and you're never really gonna get as many people interested if it wasn't for the visual aspect I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It does so much to like make them care about you. Do you ever watch wrestling as a kid?


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[Assistant] You know the promos where they're just standing there screaming at you and letting you know how bad they're gonna beat the guy's ass? Yeah, yeah. Can you imagine if you just had to listen to that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That could be a design for your clothing line, me getting lynched. Ooh. Oh. Curating on the podcast. Yours, it's all yours, you got it. Thank you brother. Yeah. I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wait, so this is, have you never played a real show? Or just never a real show in LA?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See that makes sense cause a lot of like rap, love rap, rap live sucks. Let's be honest, rap live most of the time they just play the song and they just scream over it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know. But yea, you know what's funny about it? Is that like when I first started talking to you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I had been listening to the comments, I would have done that like six months earlier. Like they knew about them way before I did. And I feel like it's kind of the same thing with you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what Hakeem's doing right here? He's assuming that there's like a local culture, like in the middle of America, and it's not so much, it's like, IHOP, Walmart. He didn't even say there's a club, I'm kinda like, oh damn, there's a club there, alright.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, that's the culture. It's like hanging out by the fire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically one time a person did something to me so bad and I wanted to get revenge on them and I was just talking about it and like a friend of mine was just like, wow, if you want to get revenge on them, what you should do is you should go online and order some boar urine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm like, boring her. And what the fuck do you do with that? He goes, oh, it's the worst smelling shit on earth. You get it? You put it in a syringe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. The reason why I even brought up the creek is because that's like, when I think about why I like going back to my mom's house where I was raised is that I could get on my bike and pedal for like a mile and a half, two miles, boom, I'm right next to a little lake.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's great. A lot of pros everywhere he goes, like crazy flat ledges and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey, but you know what, to put it in perspective for the people out there, just so you know, that when Oliver met me, he was like, damn dude, you're the most famous dude I ever met. I was like, wow, that's fucked up, man. I hate shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is crazy, because, okay, so Riff Raff at one point did a whole mixtape with Fat Neck, and Fat Neck sent it to me, and I had it, it was unmastered, but I had it, and then it never came out. And he said, yea, a song with him too. I had some bars on there too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I don't know. So like, now you're out here in LA. Where do you see your career moving and who do you have? You're talking about your team. Who's on the team these days?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, cause you're more positive and not into the junkie shit. Yes, exactly. So you sorta like, but at a time in your life you felt like you had to sorta rap about Layne and Zanz and shit?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was, well I had an empanada. Oh no, and then pokey. Oh god. All that fish.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can't put it off until the next day. You gotta do it right then and then. That's what all these crazy people in Hollywood, in the movie industry and stuff, that's why they're so successful is because they just do tons of coke, they're good at managing it, and then they use that to power themselves through. I don't, I can't do that. I'm off Starbucks. I'm off of Starbucks and the Kush.


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[Assistant] Does it occur to you that your fanbase is particularly like devoted and die hard? Like it seems like you have maybe not like the biggest fanbase at all, but like the way they act towards you is crazy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's your relationship like with the fans? Do you go out of your way to like try to interact and stuff like that?


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[Assistant] When I'm picking the color of the emojis, the only thing that's different is the color.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 100 miles, it doesn't matter, you still got like 50 people you're looking at, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna tell you, where I'm from, I've looked at the Tinder there, I would say that like, it's probably 85% less attractive on average than like here. Like it's a gigantic difference.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Happy or how much of a proper representation of you as an artist is the last tape, uh, bait music?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was my last tape, you just blew it bro. That was your last tape? Chlorine was my last tape. Oh man, you really, I think, so you said you had three Soundclouds, and I think you got me fucked up here, cause it was four months ago on the other one. Fuck vape music, it's just trash. Oh, you really don't like this? It was only four months ago and you hate it?


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[Assistant] I'm telling you, there's a lot of fucking people like you out there. So, you know, it's like, you might as well speak to them. Very relatable. Authentically.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you were with a label guy the other day, are you thinking about signing to a label?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My favorite video from him is uhm, the video where he said the n-word.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] W-Wayne rising to the occasion. The song with Gucci. What the fuck is that song?


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[Assistant] No, and I'm not saying that's true, I'm just saying I'm open to all suggestions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've had rappers that people tell me they're gay, that they fucking kill people, and then I've heard that they're...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was just an idea I had. Cause I was like realizing a lot of people get mad about the idea, like people singing along and saying it. So I'm like, well maybe we-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, Riley Reid, who's a white porn star said it.


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[Assistant] I love the fact that I did Master P yesterday and I did you today. That's pretty good.


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[Assistant] It was a beautiful fall morning. There was the loudest noise I had ever heard. And it got dark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I forgot to feed the dog. Oh no. Would you mind fixing him a little dinner? No. Have you any lean meat?


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[Assistant] Her next jump will be off a bridge, mark my words. She's got those, when I woke up this morning, he was gone, blues. I was out with him half a dozen times, and he even told me he was going to marry her. The yellow so-and-so didn't have nerve enough to tell it to her himself.


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[Assistant] for anything else and like mediocrity because for 22 seasons, his record is almost 500. However, he did have some spectacular seasons and now he's coaching in the USFL. So we're going to talk to him about that and also a bear fight that he was once involved in. So you want to stick around for that that's coming up a little bit later. But first,


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[Assistant] Made a statement that he has now filed a suit where he names the Texans as a defendant. Quick thoughts on that. And again, I don't want to dive in too deeply, but what are your thoughts?


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[Assistant] I'm pretty much with you guys. So do you guys remember the shock and awe military campaign that the United States once employed? Shock and awe. We're going to hit them with so much. They're going to need a control alt delete. They're going to need a standing eight count.


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[Assistant] I think he sat down a number of weeks ago when he realized that a settlement was not coming and his game plan was this. You wanna play?


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[Assistant] Let's play. We're gonna do it by my rules. I'm gonna roll two of my women out that I'm defending for a nationally respected sports interview show. Then I'm gonna announce 23. Then it's gonna be 24. Then 66 is gonna become a relevant number.


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[Assistant] Then I'm gonna throw the Houston Texans in. So he's carpet bombing everything. And I think you're exactly right, Bull. When I heard this, my immediate thought was the pressure just got ratcheted up on the league. It's not just to Sean Watson and the Browns. Now it's on the Texans and the league. And honestly,


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[Assistant] I think he's winning this shock and all battle. I do. And here's the other question that I'm sure they're asking in New York and I'm sure they're asking in Berea. What the hell's next?


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[Assistant] We don't know. Every day it could be something. And I think this, look, it's been about every three or four days. Yeah. And so just when you catch your breath, here comes another haymaker and you're going to need another dose of smelling salts.


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[Assistant] Rusty Harden, perhaps even the league and the commissioner and now the Houston Texans and they're all going to be singing the same tune. Let's get this thing over with.


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[Assistant] Jim Donovan is the most plugged in guy with the Browns that I personally know and talk to on a daily basis. He of course is the voice of the Browns and I'll go ahead and say it. I think he's the best play-by-play radio play-by-play guy in the NFL. He's tremendous.


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[Assistant] Jim yesterday, and Jim's always pretty optimistic and upbeat. Yesterday when Jim got back from camp, he said that for the first time,


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[Assistant] I think that there might be people now that have had discussions with the league. I do think the league will give the Browns this courtesy. They're going to know before everybody else.


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[Assistant] But yesterday, my prevailing idiot theory, uhm, seemed to take a real- Stop being yourself up like that. Well, now listen, I- I want us- I wanted this to perhaps come to fruition. I don't think-


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[Assistant] And the Browns have come to this mutual agreement that he's not going to show up for mini camp, which is next week. I believe it begins next Tuesday.


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[Assistant] It's the mandatory one. So, as soon as I heard that the Browns and Bakers camp came to an agreement that he's not going to show up and there will be no fine, I immediately thought,


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[Assistant] No, look, the organization made the decision that they are upgrading the most important position on the football team. I'm okay with that. But what I don't think they carefully weighed were all of the options. They thought, no criminal charges.


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[Assistant] And if you didn't see this most recent video and you didn't already know that he's a freak, this will put it over the top. Guys, that's almost five feet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's almost five feet. That's pretty crazy. And I'm going out on the limb here and saying no one on this panel.


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[Assistant] But everybody that was there can vouch for the fact that it was a three time.


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[Assistant] Freakish natural athlete that we've ever seen in the NFL. And I'm not saying best player, best passer. No, yeah. I'm just saying if you look at him athletically.


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[Assistant] He's got all the attributes. Power. Speed. Ski-uh, size. A winning smile.


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[Assistant] No. LeBron's a big man, but he looks small.


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[Assistant] Oh wait, wait, not just faster than Derrick Henry. So he's just a little slower than Derrick Henry.


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[Assistant] What we've done is we've put together some stills and guys, you can just swing through these and we'll talk briefly about all of them. Okay. So he's definitely bigger than Derek Henry and almost as fast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's not even as fast or nearly as big as our defensive.


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[Assistant] LeBron James. Look at this. We don't know LeBron's 40 time because he's never been.


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[Assistant] He dunks like a NBA slam dunk contest dunk.


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[Assistant] Why in the hell have the Browns not built an offensive package for this guy? Why hasn't he run the football or caught the football? Who's gonna stop him third and goal from the one? Who's gonna bring him down?


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[Assistant] He's not the same guy now, but let's not forget this guy was a specimen and he was an impact player.


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[Assistant] Three touches, three touchdowns. Mike Vrabel used to do it. Mike Vrabel, if you put Mike Vrabel next to Miles Garrett and looked at the two, you would think that Mike is actually another species. Yea, you're right. No disrespect to Mike, I love him. Shout out to him. But he doesn't look like a football player standing next to Miles Garrett. No. And so I'm just saying


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've seen this historically in the past, and a lot of times it's for yucks and, and, and, and giggles. Oh look, the fridge is back there.


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[Assistant] But here's why I'm surprised at you. Players mentality is they never think of that again. Never.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, fair points. You went way overboard. I'm not, I don't wanna see that movie again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jim Donovan yesterday came back from camp. He was very gloomy, very gloomy, but he knows that I'm an upbeat guy. So he said, I gotta leave you with something positive. Let me tell you what I saw today at camp.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He just shrunk the field for the Cleveland Browns. We haven't had that guy. Clip that, clip that. There was a lot of pressure in that.


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[Assistant] On big kicks from 50 yards at a big time blue chip program that won a national championship while he was there. I know we haven't seen him do it yet in the NFL. I, I believe that that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Five years from now, we will be looking back at the Cade York. This draft will be remembered for him.


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[Assistant] That's good news. And congratulations. That's awesome. We couldn't be happier for you. Uhm, your insight on this show is gonna be exactly what preseason viewers are going to get during the games. And here's my hope too. I think that in the business for broadcast games,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Too often the sideline personality is underutilized. I believe that there's all kinds of nuggets that they can, that they can be folding into the game. I want to give the Guardians credit for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doing something that I think is a little unconventional, but it's worth.


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[Assistant] They use Andre Knott as a third voice in the booth. Andre is one of the best in the business at what he does. And I love that they've kind of transitioned to it, not just being... Yea, he's like a second analyst really. He is! And they bring him in and you don't even know that he's in the dugout.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That pulls it off like the Guardians. Cause Andre's the best. And Aditi is absolutely in that class. And I can't wait to see you guys kind of gel together as a team. It's gonna be a lot of fun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we discuss Deshaun Watson, the one thing that I always try to tell myself before and during these segments is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the Browns, what we know is provably true is the Browns made the internal decision that they could upgrade at the quarterback position and they were willing to make that move.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We also know that Baker, after that happened said, okay, then trade me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So outside of that, Aditi, God, there's so much that we don't know. We don't know, did the Browns initiate this conversation? Did Baker?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is it really a mutual thing? Did Baker maybe say, I could be open to that, and the Browns say no. Did the Browns say, maybe we could make that work, and Baker said no. We don't know any of that. So these, asking Aditi, you know, on this wildly hypothetical, and I know that's what we do, we're filling a lot of time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just think it's kind of a fantasyland conversation. Yeah, but I'm not doing it to fill time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know that these teams pretty much know what's gonna happen. They're all waiting for Baker to be released. I think that's pretty much where we are. I think it would have been interesting had the Browns said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do we want him on our team or off our team for a $19 million price tag? I thought maybe the Browns would play a little game of GM Chess.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And say Baker's gonna be here. Baker is on our roster. Baker becomes our insurance policy and our best available option if Deshaun gets one full season suspension. At least play chicken with Seattle who then might say, oh damn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that's a term of endearment. When I call a woman a bro, that, to me, that, like... Aditi, had you ever heard of cornhole before?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, absolutely. It's a life skill that everybody should have. What's number two? This is darts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's gonna die doing that. It's gotta happen. I haven't heard of that, but the first time I did it, it was in Brooklyn, which is really, you know, trendy places was probably eight years ago and I'd never heard of it. And I thought, what a brilliant idea. Let's bring a bunch of 20, 30 year old people, serve a lot of alcohol and throw axes. But it's fun, man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you ask Wifey to take some, uh, phone video? Oh yeaah, we gotta see that. So we can show our audience we've been throwing axes. Okay, good. Yeaah, cause I wanna see that. We should do a feed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here we go. Yeaah. And that means he's gonna have a happy life. Yeaah. He's living our life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Aditi, I know you've gotta go. Again, we are super excited for our opportunity to listen to you on Browns preseason games, but also we are so pumped.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For you, that this is a great opportunity for you, and I think that this could be a really wonderful role for you moving forward, not just for the Browns in the preseason, but I see you being like a superstar A-list on the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey, what did you make of our, was it hyperbole when we said that Miles Garrett may be the most freakish?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look, if it's, if it's 20 to 20, 24 to 20, in the fourth quarter of the AFC Championship game, it's fourth and goal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Does this officially put the stake in the heart of my crazy theory that perhaps we might see Baker take another snap again? I never said he would. I just said let's not shut the door on it. They're paying him 19 million. But does this mutual agreement that he's not coming to minicamp completely kill that idea or is there still a chance?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's announced that Deshawn's out for a year. And the Browns have exhausted all avenues for getting anything at all for Baker. And they realized, we're going to pay this dude 19 million. We can pay him 19 million to go play for the Seahawks. Or...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Possibly, I mean, we'll never know, but he did suffer an injury in week two that required surgery and he played all year and you killed him for that? I did not kill him for playing, I killed him for playing poorly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this King of the Land segment is going to be very quick. So I, I, I love football. I love it. I want to care about the USFL.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want teams in Columbus, Detroit, Dallas, uh, give me one in Tuscaloosa, give me one in Indianapolis. Southern California.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Southern California for sure, an LA team, a Florida team, and here's what I want to tap into. College football, we love.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are a ton of guys that come out of Ohio State that go to the NFL, but there are a lot more that don't. They might be tweeners. So my plan is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the Michigan team have to be former Michigan players or Michigan State players.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Southern California, they have to be USC or UCLA players. In Indianapolis, they've got to be former Notre Dame players.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] from those programs, but I would think they are. That would be cool. And it would automatically give college football fans a reason to put their teeth into these teams and say, oh hell yeah, I remember JT Barrett when he was a great quarterback at Ohio State. I'll watch him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the one thing that stood out most to me was Super Bowl 34 and I hate to bring up bad, I hope it's not a bad memory. But for me, as a journalist covering Super Bowls, that was one of the more memorable Super Bowls that I've ever covered because it literally came down to that last play.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You guys are driving the ball and here's the famous picture. Uh, Kevin Dyson is doing everything he can to stretch out. Mike Jones tackles him just before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He gets to the goal line. You can see where his elbow is down and this, you know, it's called a game of inches. I don't think anything ever proved that more than this play on the last play of the biggest game of the year. I've always wondered this and I'm sure you've been asked and I'm sure you've thought about it a million times. I'll say no. Okay, well wait, let me put it there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He looked like it on the last play of the Super Bowl. He knew exactly what was coming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Former or current, one has to be another coach, former or current, just any, any time frame, and one broadcaster. Who are you taking?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, Jeff Fisher from the USFL and the Michigan Panthers. Coach, thanks so much for coming on and sharing some fun stories with us. We appreciate it. Thanks coach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bye Dirk. Dirk too. We love Dirk. Be good. Go pet him. You gotta go pet him now. So the USFL will be playing its semi-finals and its championship game in Canton and he's right. That is cool. That's great. Awesome. The house they


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[Assistant] Wow. Then that's official. Congratulations. It is the house that Gee Bush built. Are you allowed to clap for yourself? Yes. Nice. Do we have any more ground to cover today? Yes. We do. We have to do what the internet is saying.


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[Assistant] G, one ahead of J, who's one ahead of me. Yeaah, it's close. And Mike is just embarrassing all of us. Yeaah, it's real bad. And he told me yesterday, you know how I pick them? A dart board. That's it. Good, bad, and he throws it blindfolded. And that's why it's good for Mikey's time.


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[Assistant] Stand by. Stand by. I know it's in there.


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[Assistant] Listen, this is the smartest thing that we've done on this show yet, and you know why? I always used to say at ESPN when it was me, Woody, and Skip, I'm like, it's three white dudes talking about race. What's missing here? And you need a voice in the room, you need representation. Why we haven't done that so far is a miss on our part.


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[Assistant] That we wanna do this, what's the right way to do it? And both of them said the same thing to me.


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[Assistant] Real dangerous road to travel down because just like you don't speak for all 56 year old white dudes.


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[Assistant] Be careful. Yeah. Because you're about to split that group in half.


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[Assistant] Not many teams in the NFL, but that's not uncommon by the way, because every year there's anywhere from six to 10 coaches that get fired and they're always taken from usually other coordinator jobs. So there's turmoil at the coordinator position as well. What's uncommon Jay is that the Browns are not one of the teams in that.


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[Assistant] I think it's the first time in decades that they haven't. So we're going to talk about that, how important that is. Also, Jason Lloyd of the Athletic is going to join us. And we talked about him last week. I mentioned him as one of my favorite one hit wonders, Joe Charbonneau, the 1980 American League rookie of the year.


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[Assistant] Not just the last perfect game, I think that's the last no-hitter. Was there, have the Indians thrown a no-hitter since May 15th, 1981?


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[Assistant] Okay, I don't think I'm gonna like that new bouncer of yours.


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[Assistant] I've changed my mind about that bouncer of yours. Better let him hang around.


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[Assistant] Landon, you can't get away with this. Gee.


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[Assistant] A large sum of money missing from the cash drawer. How did it happen? Well, it was lifted from the till.


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[Assistant] This is the cashier. You don't have any objections to being searched, do you? Why, of course not.


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[Assistant] Did I see you leave your cage for a few minutes tonight? Well yes, I did leave for a few minutes. Nolan took my place.


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[Assistant] It's a frame up. That's a serious charge, young man. Take him down to the station. I'll prefer charges in the morning.


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[Assistant] I don't do business with jailbirds, darling.


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[Assistant] Alright, you feel that way about it?


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[Assistant] You didn't think you were going to get away with that little piece of paper, did you? Steve, throw this jailbird out. Wait a minute, Steve.


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[Assistant] Claude, I feel badly enough now. Why don't you go home to your sister? She's told you all about me.


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[Assistant] Is there something else wrong with me? Didn't you say it all yesterday? What else is on your mind? Say it.


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[Assistant] What matters most to Jay? Uh, his family. He is a big family man. What matters most to me? My family. My safety. Your safety.


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[Assistant] No, uh, have you done this for Oprah? Has she come? Cause she's a producer of this. What's that like? What's that like to do it in front of Oprah?


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[Assistant] Was growing up in a preacher family, does that, would that sort of introduce you to performing? Is like church like a stepping stone for that?


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[Assistant] Steerforth. I think I'll have to go to Yarmouth myself, I said. Perhaps I can help Peckety at this difficult time. Smiling, he put his hands on my shoulders. I wish I could be as good as you. David, promise me that if anything ever happens to separate us, you'll think of me at my best. Promise me that. Steerforth. You have no best or worst for me, I answered.


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[Assistant] So uhm, uuuh.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, uhm, I was visiting L.A. at that time, like, I was staying in, uh, my boy Brendan Savage's house, he's my roommate now, and uhm,


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[Assistant] I was just staying in Pasadena for like a month, just kind of getting the feel for LA before I like moved out there permanently and stuff. And it was just, we kind of talked about it there, but it was like literally a house full of like fucking...


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[Assistant] Yeah, just fifteen of us just like in this tiny ass room. It was pretty cool, it was fun. But uhm, a lot's changed since then, like all of us have just sort of progressed in our own little way. He was there too, Wavy Jones, fucking uh.


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[Assistant] Max Beck. Uhm, but yeaah, that was like, that was like sort of just when I was getting my feelers for like, uhm, you know LA and everything and then it's kind of what made me decide to just, just take the leap and just move out here and say fuck it even though I didn't have any money at the time.


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[Assistant] Uh, I mean, by that interview, like, I'd already been in it for like a year, a year plus or something.


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[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, I mean it just like, I mean on my end I had no hard feelings at all. I just figured like, you know, me personally as an individual artist would, you know, we were better as separate artists, I guess, kind of growing in our own way. And I just didn't want to really, really be boxed in any kind of like,


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[Assistant] Group or specific movement, uhm, I kinda wanted to be looked at as just myself and kinda everything I do.


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[Assistant] That's tight. Yeah, yeah, that's like where I started playing shows and everything, was West Palm. Or Lake Worth, more specifically, I guess.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's sick. It's really cool to see that actually, cause like when I, when I was there and like trying to come up in that, in that scene, like in the rap scene, like,


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[Assistant] West Palm was so dead, I actually even, I had to go to Broward to play shows. I was playing, uh, in Hollywood a lot.


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[Assistant] Uhm, that was like the only kind of scene that I at least found myself. And then, and even then it was just, it was really slow moving. You know, it wasn't like, it didn't really feel like a community out there. Like, to get people to come to the shows, it was almost like,


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[Assistant] It was just like friends and family of the artists themselves and then artists. Like that's like pretty much, that's all the scene was. And then like once I left, it started getting...


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[Assistant] Yeah, and it's, you know, from there it's like, it's just been growing and it's really cool to see. Even though I don't live there anymore, I still obviously go back frequently, but.


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[Assistant] That was like, I was like 13, I think. 13 or 14.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, yeaah, it was like, it was Green Day and like, no effects and lagwagon, no use for a name, just like...


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[Assistant] Basic punk shit I found on like Havoc TV, on like the on demand stuff. Okay. And uhm, and that made me kinda just wanna pick up a guitar. And my dad got me...


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, my dad was like, he was, you know, supportive, but he was like, I'm not gonna get you the nicest shit cause I want you to, cause he wanted me to focus on like sports and stuff like that. He didn't want me to take music too seriously, but like, uhm, but yeah, that's kind of what made me like, like get into it more. And I just, I took it,


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[Assistant] Once I started like playing guitar it was like the only thing I wanted to do, like I didn't give a fuck about anything else.


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[Assistant] Nah, I tried, like, I tried getting bands started at that age, but it just didn't work out. Like, every kid was just really flaky. They'd be like, yeah, I'm down, and like...


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[Assistant] They didn't know what it came down to, they never wanted to do it. Like, I wasn't in bands until uhm...


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[Assistant] Until I graduated high school, I started up a couple hardcore bands.


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[Assistant] It's literally that, it's like, I mean my, the only band, I was in a few, but like, the main band that like, are my boys to this day, my, really my only Florida friends, uhm,


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[Assistant] Is my hardcore band Nemesis, like we're still, like we still wanna do like reunion shows and stuff like that and like we're always on the same page. We never toured because we were all kinda lazy and just like drank too much but like.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it was, it's really weird how I couldn't imagine, you know, nowadays being in a band where it's like, you got four or five brains, all like, thinking different shit and like, you know, trying to make it work, like, right now it's just so easy being just myself, like, not having to...


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, like literally I just rent a car or whatever.


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[Assistant] I really didn't listen to rap at all until I was in that band and my vocalist, who's like a major hip hop head, like we kind of cultivated our sound around that. Like we were going for like that bouncy like hip hop hardcore vibe, like the Northeast type shit or whatever. And like he actually put me on to like.


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[Assistant] Just like Golden Age rap or whatever like, you know, like Souls of Mischief and then like De La Soul and stuff like that. And then uhm, and that, and then from there I got into like trap stuff and then


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[Assistant] It was, yeaah, we were a band and we thought it would be cool, like, if we did, like, a rap posse track with all of us rapping, and we rapped over this Naughty By Nature beat, and like, it was the first rap I ever wrote, and uhm, and I ended up just being like, oh fuck, like, I kinda like doing this, I just kept doing it.


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[Assistant] I never lost interest. I still love it. And then, I mean, it's just, I stopped going to shows because like,


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[Assistant] I took my job really seriously at the time. I was working like 50 hours a week.


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[Assistant] Like, they were legit, like after a while I was making like, like pretty good money. But uhm, I still hated it cause I was working. Like I just, you know.


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[Assistant] Exactly, yeah, yeah, and like that's why I have a lot of respect for my boys, you know, and from Florida who are still in bands now and they're actually, you know, getting somewhere with it and stuff because it's like, it's so much, I feel like it's so much harder than doing what I do now that I finally, you know, do have the ball rolling I guess.


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[Assistant] Definitely. It's like the fans of like, my stuff now, like, would have been fans of like, Devil Wars Prod or Bring Me the Horizon, like, you know, feel like MySpace ship back in the day, like, it's like the same audience, you know, even though those bands are still doing their thing, it's like...


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[Assistant] For sure. Yeaah, it's awesome. And it's crazy cause like, back when I started, like taking it seriously, like four years ago, or whatever, like,


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[Assistant] Like when I started you couldn't just walk in to Guitar Center and cop like an interface from Focusrite. Like they had like the little M-Audio shitboxes that like sucked and like now they got like Focusrite and they got like all this awesome like pro audio equipment and everything like to


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[Assistant] Facilitate you, like, making decent music that you can actually release, like, it's pretty cool.


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[Assistant] Nah, cause the ones that I liked seemed like they would never fuck with me ever. Like I was really into like Space Ghost Perp and Raider Clan and stuff like that. And I felt like those dudes at the time would never fuck with me.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, they did make it seem like, wow, these dudes are doing it like, without a label, you know, and like, without any sort of like, big backing, you know, it kind of gave me that, uh, I guess that inspiration to be like, yeaah, I could just literally do this all myself, even like, make my own art, you know, I just learned Photoshop, I learned Premiere to edit my videos, I just, you know, so I didn't have to rely on anybody.


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[Assistant] Honestly, like, I, I was really wack with it at first, like, I, I kinda didn't know what I was doing, like, cause at the time in Palm Beach, like, all the local dudes, like, really just use, like, ReverbNation and DatPiff to, like, upload shit, so that's what I was doing, like, anytime I, I dropped something, it was like DatPiff and then, like, uhm,


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[Assistant] And then I started dating this girl, uhm, shouts out BabyLoot. She told me, she told me about SoundCloud.


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[Assistant] Because I was kind of skeptical first, I just didn't, I don't know, I wasn't used to it, but then uhm, that's when like, and I started adding my songs to like groups and stuff like that, just like rap groups or whatever on SoundCloud.


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[Assistant] And like, I started gaining traction that way.


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[Assistant] Definitely, yeaah. Soundcloud puts people on like YouTube too, like the recommended shit, like, like you don't even know you'll end up like recommended on some big ass famous song and then somebody will find out about you.


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[Assistant] That was always like, like depression and suicide was always a theme for a lot, like ever since I started making any kind of music at all because it's like...


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[Assistant] It's my actual life, I guess. But like, uhm, as far as like, occultism goes, and religion, and like space and shit like that, I didn't really get into that till later. Like, it was kinda, honestly the hardest part was like finding my...


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[Assistant] My sound in terms of like, uh, like lyricism and stuff, cause like when you sit down it's like...


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[Assistant] Especially when you're a kid like me, like, I obviously like, I was never in any serious gangs or anything like, I mean I was in like, you know, the hardcore scene or whatever and like, you know.


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[Assistant] South Florida is a lot like the Northeast scene, like they kind of go together. And yeaah, I mean there was always like, there was a lot of fighting, like that's kind of all me and my boys did, was just fight for the fuck of it.


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[Assistant] But like even that, you know, I didn't want to like rap about that. It was like hard to sit down and just be like, you know, what's my content really going to be like, you know, and then like, I kind of just, as I started formulating, it started with me just like getting so overwhelmed with like,


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[Assistant] The pressure of feeling like I need to drop a song every couple weeks and like literally my head spinning and just going insane that like...


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[Assistant] I went away from music and started searching like other shit that would like, kind of keep my mind off that, like, like keep me sane I guess. I started getting like more into video games and just reading and things like that and then...


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[Assistant] You know, that shit ended up being my inspiration to write music, like, certain games I like or whatever.


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[Assistant] Definitely, yeaah, because I, I mean, I'm guilty of not living, uh, early on too, because, I mean, I, like, I had to work, like, since I was 18, I, you know, because my mom, uh, moved from Florida to New York, so, like, I wasn't, I wasn't supported by anybody, so I absolutely had to work full time. From what age? Uhm, 18.


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[Assistant] So I didn't have to, or I didn't like have the ability to like kind of go travel or do any of that shit. So uhm, I kind of just sunk deeper into like my own interests like in my house, you know.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, like, honest, I guess that's like, if there's one thing that like I can sort of, uhm, convey to like any musician who's like really serious about what they do, like, it's like,


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[Assistant] I want to sort of make it so it's not, you know, weird or it doesn't feel awkward to be completely honest in your lyrics. You know what I'm saying? Like you don't need to like fabricate anything unless you're like, you know, telling a story or something like that, you know, obviously, but like it's okay to just, you know, if you're into something weird, like there's ways they can, to convey that, you know, and make it sound cool.


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[Assistant] Exactly. Yeah, and it's hard to believe that when you're starting out, because you're just like, you have this tendency to want to go with, you know, what everybody else thinks is cool, but like, I think for like, longevity, it's really definitely important to just do you and just fuck what people think, because eventually, like, that's gonna catch on if you, if you're making something sincere and something that's like,


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[Assistant] That you believe is good, like eventually, you know, like people hear it and give a fuck, you know.


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[Assistant] No, no, uhm, they were always together, but when I was 17, my dad passed, and then my mom was like, cause my parents are from New York, so once he died, my mom was like, well fuck it, like I wanna go be by my family now. Oh, okay, so that's when she left.


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[Assistant] I chose to stay in Florida, uhm, I was dating some girl at the time, I didn't want to leave her, and I was also in college, and I was like, it'd be too weird for me to like, start over, cause I was already, you know, set, or I had just turned 18. And then uhm, so I stayed, and I lived with my grandpa for a little bit.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but he makes it, he makes it comfortable sometimes. That is good, yeah. Yeah, it's really sick. But uhm, yeah, yeah, but uhm.


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[Assistant] He wasn't, he wasn't, yeaah, he was, he was sort of paralyzed, like he, he got in a car accident when I was like four years old and then he, uh, was really stubborn, didn't want to go to the doctor and get...


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[Assistant] And I guess he, and that's when he really fucked his back and like he, from then on he was never able to like run or anything. He could like kinda slowly walk and he always needed like a cane.


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[Assistant] And uhm, but like most of my life, like he was on the couch, like he was never really moving.


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[Assistant] So like, we didn't, you know, as a kid I didn't go anywhere, I didn't go to Disney World, I didn't, you know, travel, I didn't do anything like that.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, like, I mean, he, he wanted us to do it, but he wanted to be involved in it. He kind of always, like, had this, like, one day we're gonna do it together type shit, and, like, we just never did. You know, because he just never had the strength, I guess. And then he was on heavy medication, like, um, oxycontin and morphine and stuff like that. And, um,


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[Assistant] You know, looking back on it, I feel like that kind of maybe affected his ability to, to do that shit too. Cause I mean, he, for all I know, like he maybe could have been taking more of that than he should have. That's kind of why I don't, I don't fuck to this day. Like I don't fuck with pills I never have. Like it just, I feel like it's a psychological thing. But uhm.


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[Assistant] But yea, that definitely like, kind of affected stuff growing up. And that's, that's made me like, now I feel like, be like, really extroverted about everything and it was not like...


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[Assistant] Yeah, it felt weird, like, cause like, my dad died, and it was horrible, but at the same time I was like,


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[Assistant] Fuck, I was like, now I can actually do music. You felt free in a way? Yea, like I could do music, I can dye my hair, I can wear whatever clothes I want, I could do anything. And like, it just, it was kind of like freedom, like, cause I mean, it's fucked up to say, but if he didn't die, I wouldn't be here at all. Like I'd be, I'd be in the military or some shit, you know.


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[Assistant] I was already in delayed entry for the Marines for like a year and a half. I was doing pool functions and stuff like that. I got my body fat down to like...


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[Assistant] And I guess he would have got some kind of commission if I signed up for like the scholarship program, whatever, fuck, and then I dropped out and he was like, yeah, it was a weird thing. I can't believe I ever wanted to do that.


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[Assistant] At the time, you know, I was, I was 17 and I was like, you know, the sounds.


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[Assistant] Cool, I didn't like, in my heart, I remember feeling wrong about it, like I remember feeling like, this isn't actually what I wanna do, but I guess it's what I'm supposed to do, because it's like, it's the right thing, it's, it's secure, you know, I have money and stuff like that, it's cool, like all shit I guess that you think about when you're in high school.


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[Assistant] You know, like, the way I grew up, it's hard for me, it was hard for me to think about, like, well this isn't really what I want to do, like, it's almost like what I wanted to do didn't matter, so it was just like fucking, it seemed good at the time, I guess, you know.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I started working at like a pet store, and that was like my first job, and I worked there for like a year, but the whole time I was doing music, that's when I got heavy into like hardcore and stuff like that, and I was taking guitar more seriously, but like,


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[Assistant] I mean, I guess I didn't really have a plan until like I started rapping, you know. Like it was, it was all just, I went to college, but like I didn't really know what I wanted to do, like.


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[Assistant] I bounced around from like accounting, I got my EMT degree, uhm, I did like, uh, I can't remember some other shit.


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[Assistant] It was just business administrate, like just, you know, just kind of bouncing around, like not knowing what the fuck I wanted to do. It's, I don't know. It's weird cause when you're, when you're like 21, 22, it's like for me, it felt like time was running out and I needed to decide what I wanted to do with my life. Crazy, right? Yeah, yeah. But like, and now I'm like 26 and I just now kind of figured it out and it's like,


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[Assistant] Yeah, honestly, I, until like a year ago, I had this thing in my head that was like this


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[Assistant] Ticking clock of 30 for some reason. 30 years old to me was like, if my music or career isn't somewhat popping by the time I'm 30, like, I'm just gonna kill myself. Like, I'm literally just gonna die, because like, that's all, that's all I had. And then, now finally like, you know, I'm...


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[Assistant] Oh yeaah, I feel that 100%. I mean, I feel that way about rap, honestly, music in general. Like, even though as much as I love music and it's like my biggest passion, the thought of...


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[Assistant] Only doing that forever is still scary. Cause like, then that kind of becomes your job almost. And it's like, so, there's like, you know, I'm really into like space and astrophysics and stuff like that. So that's sort of like, definitely something I want to pursue really hard, you know, once I guess the time is right.


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[Assistant] I'm definitely going to go back to school just because I want to eventually work in that field, even if it's like at a university or teaching or something like that. But uhm, right now, yeaah, I definitely, I educate myself as much as I can. Like, I get lazy sometimes with the reading, but.


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[Assistant] I always try to keep up with like reading anything and get my hands on it. Like I can actually comprehend, uhm, you know, without having any sort of like prior education on it.


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[Assistant] I, if I don't read for a while, and like, like I mean like, you know, five, six months plus, like I'll notice, like, when I'm typing a lot of text messages or something, like how often I need to use autocorrect, and there's sometimes where


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[Assistant] My spelling is so bad on a word that it won't even autocorrect and I'm like, fuck, like I should start reading again or like do something like to get my mind sharp.


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[Assistant] Nah, but then like, then uh, Nick came in the room like later. He ain't vegan.


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[Assistant] Uhm, I met him a few times, uh, last year, like I, like, we, we had pulled up to some of his shows, we just happened to be playing in Denver the day before him, and, uhm, Suicide Boys, and we like, pulled up to their show and chilled, and I met him then, and then, I think I met him in LA once too, but like, formally like, like,


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[Assistant] You know, chopping it up type shit wasn't until, uh, like January.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's a real motherfucker for that. Exactly. So fuck with him. It's like, that's what a lot of like, I feel like kids don't see is like, uh, in rap it's so fucking cutthroat. Like even compared to like hardcore I feel like, it's like, uhm. It's way more unity in hardcore. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Yeah, straight up. And he'll just put you on like, like, like, always. I mean, even if fuckin', if tomorrow he says, you know, fuck you, go kill yourself and we're not friends anymore, like, he still changed my life. Like, just from taking me on tour, you know.


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[Assistant] Like, he just randomly started like tweeting me out, like just like, like saying I'm dope or whatever, like he, you know, started tweeting out my videos and shit. And then uhm, like around like Christmas time.


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[Assistant] We actually started like chopping up, chopping it up more like, like through text or on the phone or whatever. Uhm, and like I had, at that time like he had, I'd heard like little bits about a tour, cause we had the same booking agent at the time.


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[Assistant] And our agent had mentioned that, uh, we're gonna be going on tour.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And at the time, it kinda seemed like too good to be true. I was just like, whatever, it's probably some shit that like might not happen or whatever. And then like, and then I got a call from my agent, like in, uh, like early January and like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Typical sound too, which is what I like, it's kinda something different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we didn't, yeah, we had like four or five days off, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, yeaah. I'd only, before that I'd only toured with him in like Texas, we did like a four or five day tour, yeaah. Little run, yeaah, all DIY shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, I, I, it's kind of what I'd always wanted, even in bands, because I never got to tour with any of my bands. Like, I literally, for the last five, six years, all I've ever wanted was to travel the country and play shows, and it finally fucking happened, and it was, it was sick. So like, unfortunately though, I mean like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was terrible. I'm sitting there like in a hotel every night just chugging like ginger tea. None of it helped at all. It was just terrible. It sucked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fuck it a little more often, but I'm, I'm always like really smart about it, and I, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, sometimes. I mean, I've, you know, tried some other shit too, but it's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, that's something I think I'll never ever fuck with. Yeah, it's not. I'm literally, I have this like, this fear of pills, like the subconscious, like I just feel like I'll, I'll take one, one time and I'll just overdose or something. Like not that that would actually happen, but it's just like a psychological thing. Like I just don't want to fuck with it. Like I just, I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeaah, I'm into psychedelics for sure, and it's sort of inspiring to me, I guess.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My dad was really against the church, uhm, he was really against like organized religion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so like, he from the beginning told us like, you know, church is bullshit, and uh, there's, you don't have to go to a building to pray or believe in God or whatever, but he was really, like, he wore a crucifix, like, he believed in Jesus, like, and he believed that, you know, we should pray and stuff like that, which is kind of weird because,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he had religious symbolism, but he didn't kind of lay down any, uhm, like, way to go about it, which I guess is cool because it left us like free to kind of think what we want in certain ways.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, when I was a kid I was just like, well whatever dad says goes. You know, whatever. I prayed and stuff. I didn't really understand praying at the time because I was just like, who the fuck am I talking to? It just didn't make sense. But uhm, I don't know what gravitated me toward religion so much. I think it's the fact that uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, as I got older, like even, I mean, it was, I guess like five, six, like four or five years ago when like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the whole Satan shit became like really edgy and like a trend. It kind of made me look like actually look into it and be like, well, okay, let's see what the fuck this is all about. Like where it's coming from kind of. And then like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It made me delve more into like actual cult, cause Satanism itself is like, your like structured Satanism is really only like 50 years old. It's not like any sort of like old respectable religion, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's atheistic, it's not atheistic, but the reason I don't fuck with Anton LaVey is because, it's funny, me and Puyet talked about this, he texted me the other day, he's like, I thought of you today because I spent two hours on the Church of Satan's website. And he's like, this is all bullshit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, he, he tried to make a religion out of just being anti-everything Christian. Right. And to me that's, that's bullshit. And he also, the Church of Satan renounces theistic Satanism, like there is no Satan. Right. Which, I think that it's, I think any religion that, uhm,