[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's like, Cha Young-Fat is facing off with, uh, the young apprentice girl, and she has the emerald sword or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she's like all about the sword, and he's like, go ahead, have the sword, and he picks a stick up, and he just is like fencing her with the, with the sword. He, she's got the sword, he's got the, the bamboo stick or whatever, and he's just like, and then he like disarms her, and he's like, it's not the sword.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was him teaching her by being one step ahead of her at every moment. I feel like that's what was happening when fucking Diesel Noi is losing to the teep of Witch Noi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's talking about how Ichinoi was so explosive with his combinations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Breakdown of Wichunoi, which is so good. He details how Wichunoi fought on the outside with like singing kicks and then he would explode with these vicious combinations. So he was this strange comment, this strange combination of skills.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anytime there was an opening, I had to just throw everything. Because I don't have many chances as a short fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he beat tall fighters, like he was a tall fighting killer, like he beat Pocahontas three times, who was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After Dizonoid, the next great tall fighter, the previous great tall fighter, and then he beat Dizonoid twice, yeaah. And Dizonoid is talking about getting hit by Wichinoid, and he goes, very cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Trying to think of the exact words. He's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The king was watching, and I couldn't stand up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 40 years, 40 years later, that's what he remembers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, he's a tall man, his root, his posture, his pride, the king is watching, like for Thais, the king is watching, is the biggest deal. It's not like the president was watching, it's different. It's the king was watching, and I could not control myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's this incredible moment there, and, it's almost like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then what's so interesting to tell the story as it played out, Diesel Noi is like, third fight, lost two, I'm gonna teep, and I'm going to kick. I am not going to grab you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's like, if I came close to you, I would get hurt. Cause he learned that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He changed his style, his style he's famous for at that point, and this is why legends say of Diesel Noy, he was a knee fighter but he had everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wichinoi, the great, Wichinoi fought him a completely different way. This is so cool and interesting because Wichinoi had nothing because he basically couldn't get close enough to do his famous, uh, combinations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so, jumping on to this, like, I solve whichanoi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We heard from Kronksock. Diesel Noy's last two fights in Thailand were Kronksock. Fighting up in- Diesel Noy was fighting up in weight. I think it was like 138 or something. Kronksock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Stunned Diesel Knight by fighting him to a draw. Diesel Knight was just thought to that time to be completely unbeatable. And Kronstock feels like he stole that fight, but Diesel Knight was too famous.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they called it a draw. We don't know, it would be a great fight to see a video of. But, Kronzak's like, in this second fight, I couldn't even fight him. Because D is Illinois.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Went to teeps, went to teeps, and went to cakes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He did, Diesel Noi, at the time when Cronstock told us that, I'm like, oh, this is why Diesel Noi is always like, don't bring your weapons out. This is like what Diesel Noi always says for a Moikawa fighter. He's like, pressure your opponent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the first few rounds, do not bring your weapons out. Let them basically fire on you. You just deflect, move, but keep pressuring them. And he's like, and then you go for the kill. And I'm like, oh, this sounds like something that Diesel only learned late in his career when he fought Kronksock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he beat Kronsock, that was his last fight. And I'm like, oh, this is just a late lesson that Dieselnoi learned and now is telling students as this great memory. No, this was something he fucking learned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Against, in the beginning, against Wichinoi, the same lesson.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's how it killed the king. So always in his.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Always in his arsenal was this possible move, but I guess he's a little bit hot-headed and he didn't always use it. We were like, we've seen a fight of his against Sagat where he just doesn't do his like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, this is the thing, it's like, it was very cool that this story about going to teeps and kicks


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he had the skill to do it. And Kronkzak was like, I couldn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was Diesel Noy's secret weapon, I think, also. Although he didn't fight that way normally, he could always become a non-engaging fighter, and then what are you going to do? Because he's so long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So his only kind of like weakness would be maybe against punchers that if he came forward too aggressively he could get caught with something, right? Anything else in this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Conversation that really meant something to you. I'm like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's lots of technical countering, like, do this against a kicker, and that's kind of interesting, but is there anything else in that session that was just like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Personally, I was very struck by that. Those, there are no fighters like this fighting and teaching, and this, like, the king was watching. Fuck, that just really affected me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just, I'm still stunned to have these two men, like, in the room together and that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know. It's very beautiful what we're doing at the library.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things like, do not listen to your corner while you're fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He goes, fighters these days, they're told to knee, so they knee, they knee, they knee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's like, obviously as a fighter, he was told the knee a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's like, I know if I knee now, it won't work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like, you as a fighter have to go on your own instincts and your own way of reading about things. Also, you brought this up a little bit early in the conversation. When you have Diesel Noi, he's so unique.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We know him among other Golden Age legends, and he feels so unique, but it's almost like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Having him with Richinoy in the same room, you realize that he's not...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That unique, he's of a kind. He's of a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like, I don't know, when some kind of Marvel superhero comes down to Earth and you're like never seen like a Thor type, and you're like, holy shit, Thor, Thor, Thor, and then you're like, now another Marvel superhero lands, right? And you're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Holy shit, this is a kind. This is a thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you see other, like, others of this rare breed. There's something about that, about having these men in the same room together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because he trained, we brought him into the gym to explain for six months, three days a week for six months, and you've also trained with him many times, you're friends, you text each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but I mean he's had a lasting impact on you more than I filmed some sessions with him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there was a thing there where Diesel Noi is talking about how Witch Noi moves off and also explodes in openings and he's like, you don't have this game yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, maybe we have different interpretations about what was being said there, but the way I took it goes along with the way Wichita was like, I, because I was short and small,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had limited opportunities. So when there was an opening, I had to make the fucking most of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I believe that DieselNoise saying this a little bit about you is like, because you're fighting tall, yeaah, you're going in for the clinch where you can be dominant, but he's like, you have to be fast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When they move is when you can score.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like, you would move on Wichinoi and he'd fucking rip you. He'd be like, you'd throw the knee, miss, and he'd be on top of you with a counter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and it's like, that's the next thing for you, as a more like small aggressive fighter, is that you need to get fast in punishing people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which actually, what we're talking about is growing eyes. A lot of what this is, is growing eyes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's fair and true, I never really thought about that because Muay Maad is kind of frowned upon as a lower level of fighting. But part of it is also he controlled distance quite a bit with his singing kicks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, I was very excited by this. So, everybody, thank you for, if you're a patron, for making this stuff happen. We're gonna do more stuff like this, more translations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What was I gonna say? Oh. You're watching this, go watch the interview.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In pledging and supporting, you make more of this stuff possible. So, when we get our patron support, we make stuff for our patrons, but we also try to make stuff that's gonna be out there forever, and this is one of those things. Any other final thoughts?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I suggest you read Ryan's article, because I've watched Wichita fights since we originally filmed with him, and honestly, I got decent eyes. I couldn't see really what was so special about it, but he thematically created a really nice framework in which to understand his fights, so I would say read the article and then watch his fights.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And maybe more videos of these great old fights will surface. We got the fucking Samart. Thank you, Harry. Our patron who found this fight, the Samart vs. Dieselnoi fight. This is one of the other things that's really cool about this. We're seeing, we're talking to the mentor of, well, the mentor of Dieselnoi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we started filming the library, nobody even knew where Dieselnoi was and if he was teaching or anything. He was very, he had a very low profile outside of Thailand, right? And I'm like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look what happens when you just spend time filming somebody or sharing somebody. It then produces ripples, unintended consequences of a fight being discovered, like that fight being discovered of some art in him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll change diesel noise legacy forever because you can talk about great, great, great, goat, goat, goat, but when you see some art,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who's a man of incredible grace and dignity? Look like powerless?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It just, you realize what Diesel Noi was. And yeaah, there was a weight difference. But fighting up was part of being what a Yoda Noi was. That's what you did at that time. So that weight difference...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's thought to be some crazy weight difference, but honestly, Chamukpet fought up like that, many Yodmoy fought up two weight classes. So, for there to be such this visual disparity,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the scoring, the outcomes of that, of that fight, I think, transforms Diesel Noise's legacy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, for somebody 20 years from now, 20 years from now, you can watch that fight. 20 years from now, otherwise it would have been like, who's Diesel Noy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I've said in another Muay Thai bones, it's the difference between seeing the bones of a dinosaur in a museum or seeing a dinosaur run across the land.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh. Like, it's really, it's really something that's very, very special.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is a good kind of tricking. It is a good tricking. Okay, cue music.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, this is a fucking hard one. This is a hard one, baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, if you're joining us for the first time...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, this is our podcast we do when driving back from usually Chiang Mai, but when Sylvie goes to fight, we spend these long hours on the road.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we, so I'm going to have these amazing conversations, because we just love talking about all the different permutations of the Muay Thai, how it affects life, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But deeper meanings about being a fighter, challenges of being a fighter. We talk about this stuff all the time, and we're like, we might as well just share this with everyone else, because these are great conversations. And we want to inspire, uhm, more reflective thinking about what being a Muay Thai fighter, uhm, is. So, I don't know, what is this? Episode 4? 5?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it's five. We'll see. You're gonna look at the title up over there and you'll see which one it was. But we're coming along.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've already had a couple of great conversations. We're about two hours in our ten hour trip to Patia from Chiang Mai. And we had, in the first two hours, some pretty awesome, just, what do you think about this conversations?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, I, when I was talking to you, I was like, God, should I really get into this? And like, ask or follow up questions? Cause this would be interesting to like, get into on, in our Moans content, uh, podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the things that you brought up was just awesome and we went along the line a little bit of it and then, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're like, well, okay, well, maybe we'll lead our podcast off of that. So we're going to start that now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did we, what was it that we first started talking about? We were talking about Muay Thai basics, right? Training basics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And how that's just not enough or something. Come on, help me out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, well let's enter the topic from the more natural place where you just, you said you were thinking about Nas the rapper, right? So this is honestly how Muay Thai is like rap, right? So that's your immediate connection point. You were thinking about Nas the rapper, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So for everyone who doesn't know, Karaha is a golden age legend. The golden age was in the 90s, late 80s and 90s. It's a golden age legend that Sylvie is close with and is trained with a ton and idolizes. And he fights, he fought like really like nobody else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, when you say Karhat, go ahead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you said something interesting earlier, which is the rhyme then brings you back to the original. It throws you back in time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the Thailand-style scoring, much of what you are doing


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Successfully. You're not just adding points. There's a narrative being told. So that when you complete a strike in a certain way,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It calls back to what you've already done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It tells the story of what you are trying to accomplish. And that's a very big, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I feel like you're not listening. Uh, it's a, we were gonna do a thing where we're gonna film some of the beautiful stuff that we're seeing all around us and cut it in, and I think we're still gonna do that, but I didn't know you were about to do that, it kind of threw me. Uhm, we were, what I was saying was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That because your strikes are calling back to previous attempts or successful or unsuccessful,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Muay Thai, in Thailand Muay Thai. And that if you've missed a strike many times, it can actually be, that strike can be going in the bank. Right. Until you finally write a check and cash it. And this is also part of Muay Kao fighting. There's a lot of stalking fighting. It's unsuccessful strikes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're like, telling the story, I'm gonna get you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the femur fighter escapes. Escapes. Escapes less successfully. Escapes less successfully. Starts looking a little tired. A little bit worn. And if you stop the fight in the third round, you might be really like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a lot of failure going on. There's no points being added up. But you're telling a story. Maybe I've gone too far down the path of like, how successes refer back in time in the fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want to maybe return to how Carhartt does this thing where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His rhymes, his delays and things are kind of like Nas's rhymes that pull you back into the meaningfulness of what just occurred.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. Do you feel that way, like he's a very high vocab?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Var- it- a high level of variety of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wouldn't even say high level. He has a variety of technique, but also with that, a variety of timings and spacings. His flow. His change of tempo, his flow, right? Combined with a nice variety, he takes like a handful of techniques into a fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's not like, doing twenty. Doing three or four or five.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He will, he will expand his vocabulary at certain points when he wants, needs to draw on something and change things up. And it feels a little bit like a great


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rapper in that sense. Where you get this expansion of vocabulary. Uhm, ASAP Rock is a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you are giving another example of, uhm, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's not really the vocabulary of what's going on, but rather like the force and the momentum and the energy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're being a rapologist if you're making that argument. You're, that you would be like, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To me, Karahat is a little bit like Nas in that sense, in that nobody would say he's the greatest, other than you, would say that he's the greatest muay thai fighter ever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But everyone would agree that nobody fought like him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but the reason why he's greatest is that nobody else


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The elements that, the way he puts the elements together,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? This is kinda what interests me. It's a very hard question. How do you train


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone in Thailand learns the basics, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the Thai boys will do the marching knees and keep your hands up. Like really basic things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Karhat told us that he was talking to you, I think about your training, like thinking to like, help you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like, when I was in his gyms, when he was in his gyms, he would be like, if I could pull this trick off, off of my sparring partner who knows me really well, I've done something special, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, but he is not a trickster fighter either.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] An intelligent fighter. And when he pulls off the unexpected elbow, you feel like, almost like a trick has happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You see fighters that are just throwing tricks, reverse elbows, like, you know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is what kind of interests me. If you're a good rapper,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever it is that led you to be a good rapper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you do more and more and more of that, you're not gonna become a great rapper. You're going, what, those processes of, that lead you to good rapping, which is maybe the expected rhyme and the, uh, catchy hooks and enjoyable flow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That doesn't grow into the other thing. They're two different animals. Do you kinda know what I'm saying?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It develops along a different track. Like, I think some people feel that if they practice the basics, and then sometimes the basics get...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Comfortably enough, like, you get to the point that it's automatic. Let's say, let's, let's say, uh, two punch, low kick combo, right? And you do that all day long and you get really good at it and you can meet all your sparring partners with it. And then you win some fights by just staying with it, right? And it's like 45% of your fighting style.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think the belief is that if I get really comfortable with that, I'm gonna become creative.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? I have this feeling like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That if you're moving down a path of predictability patterns,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It doesn't suddenly morph into this other thing. And I think that you have to train this other thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can go into it briefly, but we'll have to return to it. Bring it up, baby. Come on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want to talk about this automatic thing in a larger context, which is I'm saying maybe we'll save it to another segment, because it's part of other big ideas that's worth talking about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the things that ties do, is as kids they learn the basics, but these are really building block basics. Yes. These are, keep your hands up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or get your knees up high by your elbows when you're kneeing. And they do them at high repetition when they're young.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What, what they learn is these very, very basic things, including basic things like be on balance. Yeah, they're form. Catch yourself. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like, it reminds me very much of those child building blocks with the letters on them. It's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, they train the basics at a very basic level, and then they sandbox a lot. They literally play a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] with these elements, and they start to form their own styles. Often them, often them, from what their sparring partners do well, they steal stuff, they look at more successful fighters, older fighters in the gym, and they imitate them. They imitate people they see on TV.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a tremendous wave of creativity that comes out of the basics. I think western fighters and western gyms have a problem, which is they need to teach adults, not children, the forms of Muay Thai, and they often rely on basics that are much more patterned and composite.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? So, lots of reliance on combination thinking, which is related to Dutch fighting, Dutch Muay Thai, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think part of the reason why this propagates in the west is because of the gym structure that you have to teach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's important to think about, because we're talking about the difference between


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Great, uh, a good rapper and a great rapper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, the real pleasure is moving towards this other thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you have anything else on that? I feel like I walked into a wall there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so I wanna give a history, but talk about whether or not you're having a good time now, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sparring for a long time. We have, you give us, I'm trying to do it and you're kind of resisting me on this. You give the context of, I'm sparring a lot now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And because when you have sparred, you also have faced people better and bigger than you. So sparring almost always resulted in negative experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's just go to Rambaz Gym, which is just a little fucking crazy, amazing gym in Patia, and find two boys your size, not giants, and be like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a predator, as an animal with millions of years of evolution, that if you let it see the kick,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See the punch. See that your kick is missing. If you get kicked and your block's not coming up,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't make a big deal of it. Just watch the kick land.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Watch it land again. And your brain is a super computer. And it will start to time that kick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when you allow it to see it without all the attendant tension and thought that you suck or why am I blocked not coming up, all that crap, just remove it out and just let the fucking supercomputer take data in, which is what we're calling growing eyes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you can have that kind of experience, I think you start.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Operating on a more instinctual level. And I think it really started paying off. And then what happened was, you were doing this at Rambaz, and Pate is a very small community, I'm sure, he knew you were doing this. And so he started giving you a lot more sparring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And part of what I want to challenge you with is you came up with this great analogy of Karahat and Nas and we just spent four days training with Karahat. We went to Bangkok for four days, stayed in the hotel right next door so we could just be like morning Karahat, afternoon Karahat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, sometimes he like takes the foot on the gas, off the gas, but he's really just like walking you through his flow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? And allowing you then to create your own version of it. You're a boy cow fighter, he's not a boy cow fighter. And he's just like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pulling you along with these kinds of creativities, but I want to challenge you how we're doing other things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, I'm gonna stop this here and we'll keep on going in a second.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're zooming on where we just were, just a couple minutes ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wanna challenge you in that you have this amazing analogy that you came up with your own creative mind where you're like, Nas, Karahat, and you love Karahat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Much of your frustration is that you want to be reaching towards car hot liberty, right? Uh huh. If you're not getting there,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but that's not the way it was. That's not how it goes. You're not like, either you're car hot or you're not. Like, that's not, that's a chicken way out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is still to this day inventing techniques. Like I think some of those throws he's taught you that I've never seen anywhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something like that. Or 29. Uh, means that that's what he's been doing the whole time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so you need to get your brain working on that wavelength in the gym. Because he was doing this in the gym, he wasn't doing it in the ring. This wasn't something he saved for fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, my challenge is, oh, you wanna be like Karahat, then you have to start rapping like Karahat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well that's the thing I'm trying to get out of you. Yeah. Is like, oh that's a pick, a lock I have to pick. Rather than that's just a lock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's one reason why I'm trying to move you off of your comfort of just going back to orthodox is like pop into southpaw for five seconds and then pop out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like, you keep moving kind of off-roading a little bit out of curiosity, right? So that you, you find curiosity in what you're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that pleasure of kind of like, uhm, I don't know how to explain that, of discovery. And another thing that I would suggest to you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have this tremendous, like, vision that you're actually an aerial fighter. That, that you should be leaving the ground partly because you don't want to leave the ground.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like that curiosity of like throwing yourself in the air, jumping on each kick is an idea that we've come up with, is like, wow, what would happen if I went to a territory I just had fucking no clue about? I just ran on that territory.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, police stop. Uhm, what's next on our list? Or a good one to go to on our list.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You want to go to the intention we were talking about or we want to switch something? Let's make a total switch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Because we like to do things with great variety on the Multi-Bones Podcast. So, if you're in a segment and you're like, ah, this isn't very interesting, you can just jump 10 minutes ahead and we'll probably be talking about something completely different. So what's something else we wanted to cover?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's talk about, well, that's you not, that's not you picking one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The rise of privates in Thailand. Okay? Uhm, and we might have to go over that limit because this is a big topic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the interesting things that has come out of Sylvie's, uh, Muay Thai library project and the way that she's shared so much of her training with incredible legends and also unknown crews across Thailand is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It started to impact the way that Muay Thai functions in Thailand, like, across the entire country. Like, there was so little


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Involved, so little online.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, of fighters in Thailand sharing their process or their experiences from like right up till we came here. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And after, still fighters don't really do very much of this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But so he's put up such a huge amount, a huge body of work that it's changed the way that people


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But sometimes they just want good training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there was a time, I don't know, that privates were something that kind of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You did, you went to a c thing was is you wanted to wanted the camp to take you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, something coming on the side of the road there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, occasionally you would find a crew, and I guess pay a couple extra hundred dollars, a hundred baht, and do private sessions to kind of fortify what you-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, they started at Lana and there was the regular training and a lot of Sylvie, what she's done is supplement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're never gonna get a perfect training experience in one place. So like we said about going to Rambos for sparring, extra sparring, Sylvia's always done extra stuff to supplement wherever her training was, even when we were in America.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we would take extra privates in Atlanta with crews that weren't a big part of her training path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, I'm probably, I'm guessing that in those global gym situations, their complaints were accurate. I don't really want to spend time on Phuket gyms because that's not our world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's another component here that's interesting to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Every good gym in Thailand has good padmen. And some of these padmen...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are incredibly knowledgeable. They are like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Way, I don't want to be disparaging of Western coaches.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most western coaches, I would say any western coach, they've been soaking in the process of building TIE fighters in a fucking higher fight environment for 20 years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Their eyes and their relationship to the work is just incredible. They're craftsmen. And they're very valuable to the gyms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, I'm indicating a change, right? A change here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very low status, they're workers. Like, we look at, we call them crew, out of respect, but in the actual hierarchy of gyms, had men get paid very little money, especially in gyms that charge a lot of money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they get worked really hard with a great variety of students, often taking on really large, physically large students, so the physical work is intense. But the main thing is that the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The knowledge level of these men and then the compensation that they have feels very disequal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was the case that you could take a private from a very experienced, like knowledgeable man and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You could have that private for 300 baht, which is 10 bucks. Right? Well, and probably less. Right? But let's say 300 baht.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's happening is, as people come to Thailand, thinking about, I want to take great privates because I want to ensure that I'm getting the download of technique and the attention and the focus that is going to transform my muay thai in the one month or two months that I have here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? They come here thinking, I want to take more privates because they see what great privates are in the Muay Thai library. And I don't know that they can always get them, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you're a very receptive and aware student.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't, we don't know what happens when other people take privates. We hear good things though. But what I'm saying is the business model is changing in Thailand. Where it used to be, you want to go to a good gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they're gonna boot camp you. And they're gonna wear you out and believe in you and shape you like a fighter alongside hopefully Thai fighters. And then that's your experience. That's what you're really paying for. And now people are starting to like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Focus, sniper focus more on getting privates and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'd love to hear from the San Tai people. But I know there are people going to San Tai now to take privates with crew 10.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Kruten is one of the great Muay Khao trainers of Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did not get the feeling he was like a star crew when we walked in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was. I don't know. But it's interesting to raise the position of the crew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the economic setting of a gym, like it feels like Thai gyms now have additional reasons to celebrate their crew, to have their crew be known, to have people come


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kevin Ross and then other people have celebrated. We've filmed with, uhm, crew Dom. I feel like I'm losing you on this. No, totally.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To get low kick, the low kick style, and taking a private with crudom was like, became a kind of destination thing. Yep. And Simone Chai, which is a very well rounded and respected gym, for lots of reasons, has this crudom kind of became a star of the gym in a weird way. And now they have porcelain over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another aspect of this evolution was, uh, evolved in Singapore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bringing over stars. Star X Muay Thai stars.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But again, this, this idea of training with, I don't know, I feel like there's a shift in business model. I've heard people complain that now you can't get a private for 300 bot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But still, in the western frame, still inexpensive, but on the tie side, this is a shift towards


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Monetary demand now starting being put towards a different kind of training experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't want to overstate how much of a worker, but we've been in gyms where we've seen like, like seriously good pad men, like mouth dropping pad men, just be like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We also want to like preserve old school gym culture, but this felt like out of whack a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like there's something evolving here that's probably a good thing. That Padman and Legends are starting to get, uhm, an economic shift.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And people are starting to come to Thailand thinking about privates before they even get here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So much so that they didn't even have a business model that involved privates.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He doesn't, he literally doesn't want to. He puts his teaching into the actual training sessions. But the fact that people are asking now just shows that there's a shift going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We should also say at Petron Rung, Yodkun Pond does give privates and has been giving privates for a very long time. He's gotten all his customers outside of the gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Has been doing the privates model at our gym as a kind of like independent contractor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, this is the kind of interesting thing. Maybe we'll go over on this a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Legendary fighters of the golden age found themselves caught in a no man's land.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They didn't want to become crews. They didn't want to become pad men. They don't want to be locked into a gym. That.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They wanted to be connected to a living gym in a way, but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To be take, to be pulled into the system again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they stay out of, they stayed out of gyms. And many of them just left Muay Thai completely, like Samson Assam is a successful Muay, uh, taxi driver. It seems like he lives a pretty good economic life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then the other half that they're caught out of is they have this, they have knowledge, but they're not affiliated with the gym, so they have no way to, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so one of the things that we've been doing as a result of the Muay Thai library and the Pursuit of the Legacy project is creating these avenues to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's one of, was one of the great fighters and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He is an incredible instructor of technique. Like people are like, I want the technique correction. Sagat is incredible in being able to bring correction. I, I don't, there's probably no


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Person who is as high a level of fighter and teacher.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, maybe Charchai, he was a world champion, but he did not have the force, the force of achievement that Sagat had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of what we're doing is we're building ways for people to find Sagat and to go train with him. He's actually just moved from his TBM gym where he was taking many privates from the library project. Uhm, and now he's doing his own thing at 13 coins. We're going to be updating that. We're thinking about putting together a, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's like, we're reawakening an economic line directly to the people that have the knowledge. Whether they be great crews in a gym like Crew 10,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, at Sentai, or they'd be great legends like Karahat, and we want to say, can you check the time on this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, just, we want to finish up on the, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The change of the economic model of Thailand is these slight shifts going on, uh, but in particular we want to talk about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In our case, the example of three legends and how they're being affected differently by the Muay Thai library project and the rise of privates.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the three are Karahat, Sagat, and Diesel Noy. In Karahat's case, he might have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, he's taught in Hong Kong, he taught in Chiang Mai, he was a, probably, people who


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there's been no systematic way of like, oh, Kara, I'd love to train with him. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Awareness of Karahat through the Muay Thai library has now led to him


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Coming to Rompo Gym in Thailand, in Bangkok. And, uhm, offering private serve very regularly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and we started a Facebook page, an official Facebook page for him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which posts about his career and stuff. He is on it as an admin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he is on there as an admin, but Sylvie is also an admin, so she can facilitate communications and people can book a private with Carhartt, uh, through the Facebook page. These avenues are like important bridges between knowledge and opportunity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in his case, I don't know what he's doing at Rompo Gym, but it feels like when we went there, that he's kind of just teaching privates, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Life, that is, and Karhat's kind of a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And people coming from all over the world and getting to train with him. And it's pricey in the old model.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So 70 dollars US or something, 75 dollars, uh, for an hour. But you get to be in the middle of legendary flow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's a, that's one example of what's happening. Another example is Diesel Noy, who you brought into the gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For a month, full time, as just somebody to help out in the gym. Like, we really just wanted, we talked about it in the last podcast, you can go back to that one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But basically, let's get him in the mix of a still authentic Muay Thai gym. It's Raising Thai Boys. Mix in with some Westerners, but it's a real gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's people calling the come up on Raja and Lumpini, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People came and took multiple private swims. And also he's coming again in August, uh, three days a week for six months. So if you come to Petrum Rung any time after August 14th for a week, you'll see him. They'll be there three days a week. But it's again, this thing about like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pulling out the relationship between a legendary fighter and the opportunity to train with them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then the last example is Sagat, who was, well everybody knows he's a superstar, uhm, was giving privates out of boost in TM Gym, and they had a falling out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got that, we got that, uhm, intuition. Sylvie's in contact with him a lot. And people reach out to Orb to, to find Sagat, uhm, especially now that he's moved from boost. And he started, now he's giving privates at 13 coins gem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't know quite how full this gym is, but he, there's no way to really book them directly yet, uhm, that we know of. He's kind of hard to reach. Sylvie's been kind of passing out his


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Facebook page. We might make a Facebook page.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, so this is another version of the, the private, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, I don't know, it feels kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Amazing that you're actually affecting the shape of Muay Thai as it's being communicated in Thailand all over the country.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it was simply the matter that there was very little expression of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of this before, and now it's about, well let's see how much we can help.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think it also puts a kind of pressure on gyms now to have crews that give good privates. And to become known for your privates.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can go to, again, the Sentai example. They have several really good crews that if you would pay for private, you'd get some in crew Thailand we filmed with. Really good. They're, uhm, crew 10 again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would say that if you're coming to Thailand for one or two months,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You should budget in some high level privates to focus your training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He does not have like a fancy pad style or anything. He's like a, the ultimate workman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fight coach. He's like only things that work in a fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when he was there, we started working with him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because of how fight-oriented he was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he's the kind of guy that if you were in the gym with him for, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A month, you might not even pay attention to him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's interesting now that people go and specifically have privates with them, they encounter him in a very different way and actually everybody gets more out of it. I think Dang not only does get a little more out of it financially, but I think personally gets more out of it because he feels like people are paying attention to what he has to say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think we covered that pretty good, and it's an exciting change. What is, uh, oh, we lost our list.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe through two books, right? This started with a book I read and the title and link will be in the notes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't even finish the book because it's a little bit too sciency. Like, I like sciency stuff, but the author...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just love studies. And it's just like, study, study, studies, citation. But the things he was saying are starting to really filter into popular


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] News media too. So you guys might already be hearing this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I read this book about six months ago, and it was about the priority of sleep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That if you're getting six or seven hours of sleep, you are under sleeping.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the things that he was talking about in this book were like studies that show that people on six hours of sleep perform it


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] physical tasks and mental tasks the way a drunk person-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] much worse than you think, just like when you're slightly drunk, you're like, I'm not drunk, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's how we are when we don't sleep a full 8 hours or 9 hours. That you become physically impaired.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And mentally impaired. And you're just not, you're so used to it, grinding without sleep, that this is just the new normal, and you're not aware. It's like someone who's drunk all the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It also talks about, I mean it goes through all the benefits of sleep. It also talks about the impairment of the immune system. And for me, something most interesting was, if you don't sleep adequately and richly, you do not


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Learn the things you, you do not remember the things you learned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything you're doing you're trying really hard, right, to get better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you didn't sleep well. You didn't take precautions around sleep. And you've wasted your time. Like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hardcore to think that this might be the case. He has citations of like muscle memory learning, like the kinds of things that you think that you would learn no matter what. They have, things have to be digested. So that was the first one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, so in addition to that, of course, the obvious thing is repair. Sylvie's been training at just an insane rate for years and years and years. She's great at grinding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're not repairing, there's gonna be a problem. Eventually.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so these two things were a concern to me when I read the book. One is, Sylvie's working so hard on trying to improve and learn and grow, but she's not updating her software every night with sleep enough. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's probably a toll, physical toll of grinding and not repairing. So we start experimenting with creating more and more sleep opportunities. Going bed to, going bed early when we can. Turning the lights low. A lot of things you can read. Turning the lights low early.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that was the first thing that got us going in this direction. And then the other thing that we talked about in the Loite Bones podcast was the Flowbook.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is, Sylvie's training really should, at this point, 7 year hard years and 200 fights in, in Thailand, should be all about flow training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She already has the vocabulary and the knowledge and the physical toughness to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do anything in Muay Thai. Now it's all about getting into flow states. Which goes back to what we were talking about, sandboxing in the Karhat style and moving from trying to be a great rapper, not a good rapper. It's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because there were some like crisis moments in January.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For seven years Sylvie has been grinding morning and afternoon training in Thailand basically non-stop except when she travels for fights. And much of the time a third session like going to Rambaz.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like no days off after fights, like boom boom boom, seven years, and we're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And let's cut out some of these series, some of this. The problem is there's only so much time in the day and we have demands for patron content, free content we put up. This takes time too and energy. So there's only so much time in the day and we were like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's do a month where we start cutting way down on morning commitments. And so, what do we do?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We cut out morning runs, which was a very painful argumentative step.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She would get up at four, go run with the gym at four-thirty or five, I don't, uh, it was actually, it's a marvelous experience. It's a fucking great experience to go run with the gym three days a week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We cut out the morning runs because they just basically were like huge shotgun blasts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the chest of morning sleep. It's ridiculous how destructive these are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We tried to like, sleep afterwards, we just cut them out. We also cut out morning training every other day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And more recovery. So that if you, so that you want to sleep eight hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you can't sleep for whatever reason, you do Vipassana.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is active mental rest meditation that you do. So everything is about gearing down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that your afternoon trainings can become these elevated flow state learning experiences that are not just stress experiences, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That you then can sleep on, digest. Okay. So that's the idea. And a lot of people are going to be like, yeah, Sylvie's not over training anymore. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'm like, let's give it time, because we've done the other thing for seven years, and I'm like, uhm, I don't think we were doing it wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think you gain so much benefit out of fucking grinding. Like, mental benefit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not like you should have hacked, done the hack earlier. But I'm like, now that you have that toughness,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's add flow on top of that, and sleep and restoration. What do you think? What, what? You're way more knowledgeable about this because you've actually now done this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you wake up at five o'clock in the morning, bing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but you act like you've been doing this for three days. The, the truth of the matter is, and it's part of our argument, is there's been great results, and you don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Credit yourself with those. You've been having incredible sparring sessions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mental agility. There are some things that we've changed. We've talked about in another podcast, which include adding sodium, moving to 1 plus 1 keto, which is like an extreme dietary shaping, uh, of your energy systems.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've attributed the benefit to those things, which I think is for sure the case, but some of the like transformation of your mental capacities in training


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think you gotta credit this sleep protocol and rest protocol that we've been doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think you're asleep. You have been getting more sleep. You have to have been because you're not getting up at four o'clock in the morning, three days a week and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even when you're not sleeping, you're enhanced, uh, Vipassana time. Sometimes hours in meditation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm telling you as your husband, I am seeing you being mentally agile.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not quite sure why you won't credit the change with those experiences because you've had the benefit. You've come home and you've been like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow, I could hang with champ in sparring. That wasn't a fucking thought you would have had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like that's a valuable thought. That's a fucking gold plated thought.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you train with Sakmokon, he was talking about how they used to like make him march around as a kid with his knees like endlessly from rope to rope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he has a very negative attitude about this kind of like purposeless marching, right? And he has this thing like...


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[Assistant] Uh, don't train dumb like that. The truth of the matter is, in my opinion,


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[Assistant] That dumb training is what gave him the foundations to become a great fighter. And he, he had, what he became was because he did the knees.


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[Assistant] You did your knees for seven years. Like this grind that you've done was not a mistake.


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[Assistant] I don't think you would have become as tough as you are. You're incredibly mentally tough. And now we're just trying to now take advantage of all the knees you've done.


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[Assistant] I also like this idea of making the afternoon session the one where you can just floor it.


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[Assistant] And be open to creative stuff, and to make everything about like, making that stuff stick. Right?


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[Assistant] So, if you come to, to, to Patreon Room to come and train with Sylvie, she might not be there every morning.


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[Assistant] Because we're doing this stuff, this other thing. I have no idea how...


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[Assistant] Whether we would recommend this to someone else. Like when somebody's like, I'm going to come to Thailand and only train once a day, I'm kind of like, that's not really a good idea.


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[Assistant] Well, how do you feel about, like, somebody listening to this and they're like, well, should I train once a day or twice a day? Like, uhm...


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[Assistant] Maybe, things like, prioritize your sleep.


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[Assistant] Be careful about your partying because it's going to wreck you maybe for a couple of days.


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[Assistant] But nobody's gonna be where you're at, because nobody's ever done it in history.


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[Assistant] Switching things up as we do in Muay Thai Bones.


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[Assistant] We wanted to talk about one of your favorite topics.


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[Assistant] The female TIE fighter, Sao Sing Sorsoffit, uh, who you are a huge fan of.


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[Assistant] Like when people ask you who your favorite fighters are, you're like...


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[Assistant] incredibly special she is as a fighter and a person because in the way that she's special gives insight into


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[Assistant] Thailand Muay Thai and female Muay Thai, I think. So maybe...


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[Assistant] Start talking a little bit about who she is and also why, like why should people should be excited about her.


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[Assistant] You seem like you're actually downplaying her in her history. I thought she was kind of a superstar when she was young. Like Dua Lek is a huge fan and he's not anywhere near Singhburi. You feel like she wasn't like a superstar when she was like 12 years old?


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[Assistant] Well, she fought in Monbarlo when she was 16, probably representing the best female fighter. She was probably thought of at that point the best female fighter in Thailand.


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[Assistant] Cause it was a huge showdown between like this incredible western


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[Assistant] Uh, fighter, I think Iman was 17 at the time. And uh, Sao Sing was 16.


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[Assistant] Uh, fame as a young fighter and it resulted in a draw.


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[Assistant] We were ringside, and there were fighters, young fighters, Moon Sing Ju is a very good younger fighter, who's her cousin? Her cousin, Gao Da, who's a fighter you've faced several times, was there.


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[Assistant] We watched, one of the, I caught a couple photographs of this, I have some photographs of it, maybe I'll link, we'll link them in the, uh, description, uh, we watched these girls,


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[Assistant] One of the things that appeals to you about her is her masculinity. And this is something that's kind of...


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[Assistant] A very interesting component of what, about, that talks about Muay Thai in general, which is that Muay Thai for Thais is a hypermasculine performance. Hypermasculine means something like watching a cowboy, you know, walk.


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[Assistant] Or a gangster in American concepts of masculinity.


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[Assistant] Even when done by men. Like, uh, one of your favorite is... Pooper mouth.


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[Assistant] Muay Thai is a hyper masculine performance and


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[Assistant] Even when the male fighters are doing it, they're performing masculinity, which is part of the beauty of it.


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[Assistant] Embodies a masculinity that's unusual for a Thai female fighter.


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[Assistant] Now what is the nature of that masculinity that just makes you fangirl to her? Like she's your favorite friend.


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[Assistant] And she's a 60, she walks around about 60 kilos, you're 46 kilos. So the fact that she's even larger than you, she doesn't let it go. She's like, no.


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[Assistant] There's a version of masculinity that's performed that


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[Assistant] High female fighters do map themselves onto, which is the female fighter who is like the ultimate female fighter is Summer.


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[Assistant] Who's, uhm, so, above the fight, so unaffected, almost bored by the fight, and then he's just like, oh, I just knocked you out, excuse me. This kind of like, floating,


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[Assistant] It's a different aspect of masculinity. It's a form of hypermasculinity, which is not the tough guy masculinity. It's a different kind. It's a stylized masculinity.


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[Assistant] Map themselves onto the female dimension of Muay Thai because it connects up more with


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[Assistant] Feminine Thai qualities, which are, uh, to be presented as beautiful, as undisturbed, um, serene, uh, so it's not, you say, oh, female,


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[Assistant] Female Muay Thai fighters fight it like a sport, but it also is because


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[Assistant] Thai femininity culturally maps well onto one edge of


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[Assistant] Hypermasculinity in Muay Thai, the female style. And because of that, a lot of Thai female fighting has this kind of like floating above the fight disinterest energy to it.


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[Assistant] And so when you get the opposite, you get the masculinity of Sao Sing or some other knee fighters, people get really excited.


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[Assistant] And I think that a lot of times when ties watch tie and tie and tie female fights, they feel like they're watching two matadors.


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[Assistant] Two very experienced Chiang Mai female fighters.


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[Assistant] So we watched this kind of like tension between a kind of like Tom masculinity and the floating above female version of that.


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[Assistant] She performs femininity and sexuality in a very strong way.


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[Assistant] But then adopts masculine codes.


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[Assistant] For her dignity in her fights. And outside of her fights too, Sylvie has been cut so many times


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[Assistant] Sal Singh is the rarest Thai female fighter who puts the cut photo on her Facebook profile, as a profile picture. Now, I know for us in the West, we're like, oh, she, that's, this is badass.


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[Assistant] This is not usual for a Thai female fighter, especially one that has beauty as one of her like, personal codes.


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[Assistant] I watched her, we watched her fight, that fight in Bangkok where we saw the like, heart eyes from the Thai female fighters, the younger ones. I'm telling you.


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[Assistant] I don't know for sure, I did not hear the conversation. She was...


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[Assistant] Holding hands with her opponent, who she had just beaten.


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[Assistant] I think with the belt being presented or something and she was, she's very generous after fights, she's very embracing of her opponents, and I saw her gesture to her forehead.


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[Assistant] She gestured to her opponent saying how many times she herself had been cut.


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[Assistant] While she herself has told you, you asked her about her showing of cuts, right? What did she say?


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[Assistant] One of her mentors and coaches is Arjun Suraj.


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[Assistant] I'm not afraid of a song right. But it's the same thing. It's the dignity.


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[Assistant] There's something that is very unusual in the persona, in the person that she is, that she's able to bridge these elements together.


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[Assistant] Having lived in Thailand and seen so many portrayals of femininity, you just don't see it. There are lots of female fighters who adopt a Tom persona.


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[Assistant] Which is a masculine persona, a Tom also being often in a lesbian relationship, a Tom and D relationship. And that, and there the masculinity makes more sense in a strange way.


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[Assistant] For her to bring these two together, just, maybe it's because there's, we don't know that many high female, when you're in contact with a lot of them.


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[Assistant] I've never experienced this kind of synthesis that she does. And then it even comes out in the ring when I watch her perform her amoi.


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[Assistant] Her commitment to like the bow to the corner of the ring, or her like turns on the runway, they're performed in almost like a dramatic surrender to the art form.


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[Assistant] Like, I am giving myself up over to this ritual. That is


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[Assistant] Feels feminine to a certain degree in that it's so performed, but it's so surrendering it's become authentic. And I feel like even the way she commits to that rear elbow, and she has this beautiful spiking rear elbow, the way she commits to it,


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[Assistant] Crossing the space from the back end. She throws it from her back end, I think.


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[Assistant] Is the same kind of surrender, the way she surrenders to her bow in the corner.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but without it becoming a construct. Like some people are aware that they're watching, they're like, oh, are you looking at me? She doesn't have that thing.


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[Assistant] And you guys, if you wanted to, you could go and train with Sao Sing. Uh, especially women might have a great experience. She, her and her husband own a gym called Winter Gym in Singbury.


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[Assistant] She's really good. I remember her saying that Kiro, who's a friend of ours who was at the Moe Cow Summit, and uhm,


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[Assistant] It's very gifted. Kiro's greatest gift is probably her heart. She trains so hard, but you can feel how deeply she herself surrenders through technique and training. And didn't she tell Kiro, come to my gym for a week, I want to basically...


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[Assistant] Like she, she felt like she could build her into something really interesting.


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[Assistant] I don't, I have no idea. We don't know a lot of people that have trained there, but it's certainly open to westerners, and it would be a quite a little adventure to take the bus out there. If you have any desire to train with her, or her husband who's an accomplished Muay Thai fighter, uhm.


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[Assistant] Okay, you can contact us and we'll help arrange that.


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[Assistant] Uhm, they have rooms open right next door to the general apartment building. Uhm, so it might be a cool thing to do, but larger than that, there's something to celebrate about Sao Sing as just like,


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[Assistant] Okay, continuing next segment. This one's actually connected a little bit to what we were talking about with South Sing, and it's a deeper philosophical


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[Assistant] Objectives of Muay Thai and Muay Thai scoring.


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[Assistant] Okay, we're gonna start with root. A really important aspect of Thai style scoring.


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[Assistant] Roop is this concept of maybe wholeness, right?


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[Assistant] I wrote this essay, we'll link it in the notes.


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[Assistant] About 10 years ago, a little bit after we started, we were together. I think we were nearly 11.


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[Assistant] But I wrote this essay about 10 years ago, and it was about the Greek term Thumos. Ancient Greek. Thumos was, this will look like a site track, but it's not. Thumos is a center of the person, of a person.


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[Assistant] Let's just say a warrior. Uh, it's often used to describe warriors in battle in the Iliad. It's a very old concept.


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[Assistant] That the, there was a center of energy in a person, which was their thumus, which is connected to your pride.


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[Assistant] It also connected to feelings like anger, but like righteous anger. Like honor. Honor, if your honor has been taken. The way you kind of like, rise up and...


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[Assistant] Pop up in a, almost in an inflating sense.


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[Assistant] But you have a sense of wholeness when you're operating from Thumus. In ancient Greek, uhm, an animal that embodies Thumus is the horse. Like a horse has this tremendous, like, dignity in his movements, but also great energy and power. His roof is complete.


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[Assistant] There's something about this as an older way of thinking about the human.


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[Assistant] Person. We often think we are our thoughts.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's a, it's a lower body kind of like center of yourself.


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[Assistant] The Greek celebrated thumos. You could also have too much thumos, which would maybe be too much pride, or someone who's not reigned in. So it's not always a good quality.


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[Assistant] The heroic person is a themotic person. And there is a, in my essay, I reflect on somebody who's talking about how in contemporary western culture, we've lost our thumos. Everything is thought of in different ways, and that we need to recover this.


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[Assistant] A lot of what draws us to, I think, traditional martial arts, fighting sports, is that they still celebrate fumos. And what I connected, I connected the re-reading of my essay with your recent discussion of


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[Assistant] Rup and how in Muay Thai, if your Rup is broken, you lose the aesthetic battle, you can lose


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[Assistant] The fight, even though you might have scored more points, right? And it's like, uhm,


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[Assistant] I don't know, I feel like this sense of wholeness is something that you as a fighter are starting to zone in on.


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[Assistant] This is the point of fighting. These are states I need to be in more often.


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[Assistant] The more time I spend criticizing myself, critiquing myself, I think you're a very powerful diagnostic thinker in that you like stop the machine and run a diagnostic and analyze


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[Assistant] None of that is Roop, none of that is Dumos. And because as a fighter, it feels like you really want to like,


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[Assistant] Well, it's interesting because an object also is things like, when Thumos turns into hatred. So, for instance, if uhm,


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[Assistant] You're experiencing yourself being devolved but then you think it's because of this other person is doing it to you. Right. And then you project your thumos in a negative way like you hate this other object that's causing these things. Right. That that is a kind of like result of thumos being compressed almost. Right.


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[Assistant] I think I understood it very differently. I thought the object part was like, of a positive point. Like, that external object is not causing you to feel x, y, and z. So you don't...


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[Assistant] And actually, Karahat, in that moment, doesn't hit him.


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[Assistant] That your, that your dignity or your sumotic, I wish, I hope people have a sense of what sumos is, your sumotic like pride or intensification rise


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[Assistant] Uh, is this your first time watching the Motive Bones podcast?


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[Assistant] When we come home, we check the footage of what we talked about, uh, on the road, and because we're recording for like two and a half, three hours,


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[Assistant] Uh, we burn through, we haven't technically gotten it exactly right and sometimes things don't record.


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[Assistant] Is to like supplement in what we covered, but just didn't film. So this seemed really kind of an important, interesting line of conversation we were having. And...


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[Assistant] I don't know, we just wanted to make sure. So where, where were we, where were we leaving off? We were talking about it's not a point.


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[Assistant] Then you can lose because, oh that was worth 10, I'm gonna try to put 11 on, oh I put 9 on.


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[Assistant] Whereas, when you were describing this to me, it actually reminds me of the challenge of the fifth round.


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[Assistant] Is when, very often you have the lead, like


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[Assistant] One of your challenges as a Muay Kow fighter, you are coming forward the whole fight, stalking your fighters, locking them up, scoring the points, getting the lead, this huge thing. And so the big challenge in the fifth round is, there comes a point,


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[Assistant] Where you can just start going backwards, reverse your direction.


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[Assistant] In tie aesthetics, you are now claiming the lead, and your opponent...


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[Assistant] Has to decide that if they start chasing you, they've acknowledged that they're losing the fight.


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[Assistant] And they have to try to reclaim dominance. But this is what's very interesting about it. It's that


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[Assistant] There's many complications and maybe we could talk about the fifth round in a future podcast.


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[Assistant] But, one of the challenges is...


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[Assistant] When you're going backwards and you're like, da da da da da, and she lands a kick on you, you cannot count that.


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[Assistant] In the fifth round, it's more important than any other time in the fight because what you're really talking about is impressions of pride and dominance and shame. Right? It's a very, it's an extreme version of what you're describing that happens at very high levels with Golden Age fighters. Like Karahat. He's like, I'm not going to play a one point for one point game.


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[Assistant] Well, I don't know, I seem to remember some are just stop fighting.


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[Assistant] Right? That lecture or talk that you were listening to that talks about trying, right?


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[Assistant] And I always picture this, like, the tightrope is not high in the air, it's three inches, five inches off the ground.


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[Assistant] And we, when we've talked about this in the past, what always comes to my mind is my visceral memory is as a kid, really shaping the letters of the, of cursive writing in the ruled paper, like getting really, I loved just trying to shape the letters, which is not handwriting.


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[Assistant] But it's full of intention and focus.


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[Assistant] The reason for the penmanship is that you eventually just let go of that intentionality.


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[Assistant] And now you're writing and now the pen is your hand. And your thought is on the paper. And it's interesting that in handwriting it's probably because writing is connected to some very deep instincts of the human body. Writing is easier than fighting.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but not only that, the transition to trying in handwriting goes pretty quickly.


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[Assistant] But in fighting, maybe because it's so complex, and you're under pressure, and the techniques are not feeling like thought expressions, that it's harder to let go of that initial thing, and we start thinking that trying is the key to everything. And it's like using kindling to light, to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is interesting about this intentionality is how it's linked to what I was discussing before about this thumos, this fullness, this wholeness of the self, that when you're acting in this unintentional, intentional state, you are


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[Assistant] Full bodied. You're not fractured and...


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[Assistant] Having critiques of oneself, you're not breaking oneself into pieces.


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[Assistant] And this reminded me of the Sandman, the creation of the Sandman scene in Spider-Man.


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[Assistant] I think this is for Spider-Man, where he has been sandblasted into nothingness, right? And then he starts to assemble himself, we'll link the videos online from the movie, he starts to assemble himself out of just the sand, he's an entity.


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[Assistant] He gains form and collapses. A little bit more form and collapses, right? And there's something very poetic and beautiful to me that


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[Assistant] Out of the grains of what is and you are, could be made of.


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[Assistant] And then he summons himself into...


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[Assistant] He has an object, but he has a purpose, which is where, yeaah, exactly. But he, it's like that thing, like you were saying, that you do not want to be too focused.


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[Assistant] I feel like this is the key about the thematic person, the center of yourself, is that the thematic...


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[Assistant] Impulse isn't one of trying, but of homeless and being.


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[Assistant] My challenge to you is, you have these breakthroughs, you're moving towards this stuff in your fights, I see it now, you're tapping into this, how do you create this sweet spot in your training?


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[Assistant] More. You don't have to do it all the time, but maybe you do it 10% now you want to do it 12 or 15. Yeaah. How do you increase that experience?


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[Assistant] Picture what you want, like picture a kick landing, and I'll let it go.


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[Assistant] It's, what I, I'm very drawn to these technique things, you less so, but that's a technique of...


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[Assistant] Do a, then do b, and then do c, and it will produce a certain kind of result. If you picture what you want, let it go, and then just hit the play button.


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[Assistant] Picture, let go, hit play. Picture, let go, hit play. That circle is a mental habit that you can build.


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[Assistant] Which would kind of short circuit the habits of trying.


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[Assistant] That are instinctive because you're picturing a reality as if it's real.


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[Assistant] Maybe, yeaah, like a punisher. But, there is that, that sense of intentionality giving you fullness of


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[Assistant] Expression. It's very interesting. Okay, so that's the couch segment, I think we call it. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, went through a rainstorm.


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[Assistant] The first thing I wanted to say, before we move to the next segment, is uhm, thank you.


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[Assistant] Thank you to our patrons. This is free content. Uhm...


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[Assistant] We try to put these up as much as we can, but it's completely supported by the patrons that follow you and pledge monthly to basically allow you to not only fight and create the whole Muay Thai library, but also to create free content too, because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We want to just expand the conversation of what Muay Thai can mean. And these long form two, three hour podcasts are about kind of like spinning out, why you laughing?


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[Assistant] Spinning out these larger ideas, right? It's not just about kicking ass or, right?


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[Assistant] Uhm, and so your support does do these things, like part of this podcast came out of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, pledges and supports. And if you like what this is, there'll be a link in the description. You can become a patron. There's fucking unbelievable stuff. Like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's kind of ridiculous how much is in Sylvie's patron. There's nothing even close to it and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Kaimoi documentary series. Like that's already six hours long. Like a six hour Muay Thai fly on the wall documentary. It's kind of crazy, but it's beautiful and whatever. Going to our next subject, Tyson and the Catskills.


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[Assistant] Is this, do you think this is like, between us 50-50? Yea, it's very wide.


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[Assistant] Uhm, Tyson and the Catskills is a phrase-


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[Assistant] It's a phrase that meant something to us before we moved to Thailand, I'm pretty sure.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so we were in Bear Mountain, uhm, which is about an hour north of


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[Assistant] New York City, living on the edge of a national state park in a cute little house, uhm, Sylvie was cut off from almost all Muay Thai training


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[Assistant] In the sense that we had to drive at least an hour, sometimes two, three, four hours to get to any authentic Thai Muay Thai training.


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[Assistant] Dundee, the first two years, I think it was for two years, maybe it was only a single year, but he fought all the time.


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[Assistant] I think he fought over 30 times in a year. And maybe for two years he did this. And they were interviewing him and he was like, what could you tell future fighters what they should do? And he was like, just fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he felt, it seemed, he seemed to be really feeling that this process of just training


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[Assistant] And fighting and fighting and fighting and training and fighting and training and fighting was really important to him becoming what he eventually became.


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[Assistant] They're a bad bartender. Totally, totally. Uhm, and so,


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[Assistant] We had, I'm not sure you had already thought that you want to fight 50 fights, but Tyson and the Catskills was before he was famous and it was just this feeling that we had that we wanted to come to Thailand.


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[Assistant] Not only were there no fights for Sylvie in America because of her size and


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[Assistant] The frequency of fights were very small anyways. The opportunities. But we were like, let's come to Thailand because you can get that cat skill like training.


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[Assistant] Moving through improvement of technique and experiences, but also


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[Assistant] You can fight a lot and we didn't know how much Sylvie could fight because no one has ever fought like Sylvie in the history of the sport.


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[Assistant] Ever. But Sylvie Charbonneau was at Lana and she herself in 5 years had 50 fights.


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[Assistant] So 50 fights became the thing, but this is really, this segment is really about an ethos of Tyson and the cat skills, where all you want to do is fight,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Train, repeat, fight, train, repeat. And this became the like template.


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[Assistant] of Sylvie's fight philosophy, and I'm gonna tell you, she's at fight 240, we're still in Tyson and the Catskills.


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[Assistant] Nobody has really done this process like this before, but where Sylvie's trying to aim for in her Yodemoi ambition,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is requiring, in our opinion, endless Tyson and the Catskills and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People don't think like this about fighting.


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[Assistant] So when they're like, you should fight so and so, or don't you want a world title belt? Or like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Five years from now, maybe, it won't be Tyson and the Catskills, because you'll be getting to the fight style you really yearn for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You don't know what life presents you, but we are aiming for 471 fights which would acquire 25 fights a year, uh, for 10 years or so. More.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I just, every day, do something every year nobody ever does.


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[Assistant] So anyways, but I wanted to talk a little bit about this concept, like you were saying, of tasting your drink.


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[Assistant] And I observe that you fight better when you fight frequently.


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[Assistant] Everyone has this experience, but in the West, when there are far fewer opportunities for fights, it would seem like it's even more difficult to overcome. Which is the like, extreme temperature taking that a fight does to you. Where are you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where if you fight only once every three months, let's just say,


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[Assistant] It's very hard to avoid the judgment of how that fight


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[Assistant] Makes you feel about all your training beforehand. Or even your worth as a fighter or as a person.


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[Assistant] You've struggled a lot with this. Many people, but you've fought a lot. What do you think about that temperature taking tendency?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like it's hard to stamp it out or move away from it. Fighting the Catskills, Tyson and the Catskills is a way of avoiding that problem.


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[Assistant] But what about people who can't fight six times in a month?


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[Assistant] Yeaah. Early, this was very early on before we moved to Thailand.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's actually a really interesting, that's an interesting point and it goes back to what you would refer to about diesel noise, like even in your room you don't let your...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You don't show your exhaustion, that you're fighting.


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[Assistant] But does, sounds wrong, but you're fighting continually. All the time. But only in the sense that you're reaching for these ideals continuously. Yeaah. So in shadow boxing,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you want to relax, but you want to relax as if you're shadow boxing in front of your opponent.


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[Assistant] Uh, maybe that's the comp- the aspect of making your fighting and your training together and making fighting part of training.


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[Assistant] And this makes, it turns my mind to something that's really interesting.


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[Assistant] Which, uh, I think you're, um, you're, you've had a huge impact on...


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[Assistant] Uhm, we talked earlier in the podcast about the rise of privates in Thailand. Another thing that you've had an impact on is that when people come to Thailand, they try to fight more than one time. When we first came here, everyone fought once when they would come for a month and they would, month to month, and they would save it


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They wouldn't maybe start with the idea that it's gonna be at the end, but injuries and da-da-da and whatever goes on, they would just keep pushing their fight to the end. And, unfortunately, when you do that, Thailand is unpredictable.


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[Assistant] Your fight might get cancelled. And then you got zero fights. And one of the things that you consistently recommended to people


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[Assistant] And I think not just to actually recommending it but also your example is fight more than one time in Thailand.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, the reason why somebody wants that one fight is like you say, they want the, uhm, defining vacation experience.


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[Assistant] And sometimes it's literally your vacation, like an adventure vacation.


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[Assistant] You want that fight to say something about you and the quality of you as a person.


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[Assistant] And then once you have that victory, you gotta keep that, like a keepsake.


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[Assistant] The reason why you want to fight more than one time, like if you can fight once, you should try to fight three times.


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[Assistant] Is the sheer repetition. Woah, look at that. The wheel just came off that truck. That's incredible. I've never seen that before.


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[Assistant] Is because it forces you to immerse yourself in the cycle.


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[Assistant] Of fighting and training and fighting and training, which is really the Thai style cycle. I don't know if your gym will allow you to fight three times in a month. Yeah, the size, your skill level, the size.