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[Assistant] Because here's what I'm factoring though, Tyvis. What I'm factoring is, I've always said it's not about the stats or the play, it's about the gravity and the impact of the play. He scored two touchdowns and the Browns were not capable of moving the ball, period. P.J. Walker couldn't throw the ball.


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[Assistant] Uhm, do you believe that's why he said, when they said, are you going to play on against Seattle? And he said, I'm not sure. And then when they asked Kevin Stefanski and he said, yes, he's a starting quarterback.


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[Assistant] Man, man, it seems like we talk about bringing in a lot of people. Uhm, but that's the great, you know, the good part about it is, you could be two and four talking about bringing in people, but you're four and two. Uhm, do you believe that four and two record?


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[Assistant] Warrants them going out and trying to bolster this team as much as possible for a good playoff run. Uhm, I look at the receiving, you talked about running back, quarterback, you know.


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[Assistant] It just seems like the Browns habit traditionally made a lot of moves at the trade deadline.


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[Assistant] Uhm, do you think this year is a year that you'll see them try to push and make that move?


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[Assistant] Jerome Ford, he has a tendency to run into the back of his blockers. His pad level is too high. He doesn't see the cutback lane too well. And the thing that he does have, he has some good bursts and he's shown it with the long runs, but the inside zone,


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[Assistant] Something that we're missing, let's figure it out. Hold on, there's something that we're missing here. Something that we're missing is, I think now, from what Mary Kay told me,


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[Assistant] I don't see it happening this season. It's not gonna, this, Deshaun Watson. You're not thinking Gentleman's punt. No, no, no, no, not punt. We ain't putting nothing, but expecting Deshaun Watson to be effective this year? No.


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[Assistant] Plus, ba-da-da-da-da, you're loving him. Mikey McNuggets.


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[Assistant] I appreciate it. You know my line, keep your head down, keep working, stay humble.


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[Assistant] Well, I'm gonna be honest with you, Jay. We targeted that. We saw that. Did you really? When it was time, when it was time to make selections, I was like, that's in Cleveland. Year three. This your junior, this should be it.


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[Assistant] Wow! I said, so your thing should be, and I'm always gonna hear everybody like, we're playing in Cleveland.


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[Assistant] It's pretty much like when Page Records went back to Minnesota, UConn went back and played their championship game in Minnesota. It's the same thing.


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[Assistant] And I said, so here, this is it. So, but you know, she's trending. The thing I had to caution her always on is this, right?


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[Assistant] No distractions. Right. Stay focused. Right. You're here. You're knocking on the door.


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[Assistant] Well, I had to say shout out to Warnsville, uh, city schools, because when they said they were going to do it, wanted to do it.


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[Assistant] I really didn't think it was, you know, I go about my day every day, alright, so I'm thinking, okay, this is a little dedicated. I walked in, there's the things, the breast cells are ringing, I'm like, and this thing is all laid out, I'm like,


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[Assistant] We can make, we can make that happen. And the thing about it, I like it as this, and Brenda Frese, Coach of Maryland has, this is the thing, she does that, and it's not for just them, she opens it up to the public so they can see, girls can see what this is about. It's important. It's important. It is the sport.


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[Assistant] I would just say from the top down, not just because I have somebody or two to participate in NCA level.


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[Assistant] Their basketball, the way they play is reflective of years ago, right? It's a team game. It's a thorough game. It's a team game. You get to, people stay in school. You get to watch them grow over time. Yes. Fundamentals are


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[Assistant] Fans get to follow players like, I remember when she was 18 and now there's a lot to be said for that.


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[Assistant] So I say that the Cavs added some, uh, some much needed shooting. You know, in the playoffs last year, we were at times really playing four against five, right? And it's no slight on Isaac Corral or anybody else. We were playing four against five. That's how the Knicks designed it against us. So we went out and we got a couple of players that are going to help us go forward, right? The question will be is, uhm,


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[Assistant] For us, did the core unit that came back this year.


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[Assistant] Did they learn a lesson? Are you ready to take the next step forward? Cause that was skills they didn't have. Well, that was a lesson that I think everyone was in the building. So there was a lesson being handed out by the Knicks. It sure was.


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[Assistant] Well, I think you got two guys, and, and Streus and Yang, that can, can, can shoot the ball, right? My, my question will be, and I'll see it here early, and uhm, for the Cavs is,


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[Assistant] Uh, I, I think it's by commit, as you know, I don't know who they, who they gonna go with tomorrow night, right? Yeah. And so, uh, it's, the rotation kind of thrown off because Jere's not gonna be there. And so, uh,


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[Assistant] Shooting and playing at three are two different things. Yeaah. You have to understand the psyche of a three. I was a three, right? Yeaah. And the psyche of a three should be, wouldn't mind, but the psyche of a three in this league is that you're a go-to person.


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[Assistant] You gotta be a go-to person. You're not a facilitator. You're not a person that's to go set screens. You know, I'm just in the anti-matter world playing along with a guy that shot the balls, right? But the threes position is a go-to position, right? So we picked up some shooting. I didn't say they were go-tos.


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[Assistant] Problem and going to be answered because it was a problem.


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[Assistant] Yes. And anybody smart in this business, in a playoff scenario, gonna box you in in a week.


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[Assistant] And I say, yes, it appears to be that he's ready to do that. Year three is usually the year where you make the leap.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he's never gonna be, he ain't gonna be shocked, but I mean, he, you know, but the way they got done last year, sent you back to the laboratory. Now that tells me when I first saw, oh, you came back, I said, you came in and put in some work here, right? Now the other thing I've seen in the preseason, he wasn't running around here trying to do a whole bunch of things, right? He was trying to do the things that


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[Assistant] I don't need to do a thousand things here, right? You can be the jack, uh, master of many. I mean the jack of many and the master of none, right? So your bread and butter is here. The mentality I see for evidence that has to occur is this.


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[Assistant] Will you be aggressive enough to demand the ball from Darius Garland and Donald Mitchell? Drop that thing in here to me.


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[Assistant] Yeah, cause that, that position when you wanted the big guns, you have to take that position.


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[Assistant] He's a different breed. I mean, that's a freak. I mean, he's got, he's got the skillset of many. Step back.


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[Assistant] Mini. Length. Blocks. Pull up. Right. So that's what people saw. So when you see that, that comes around every Blue Moon. Never mind that.


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[Assistant] Right. Now, Jade, imagine if you could have three


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[Assistant] It was like I'm a complimentary guy. Why I don't want to be a complimentary guy. Yeaah. I want to be a focal guy. He's an entree. Yeaah. I'm a focal guy.


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[Assistant] And in that way, boy, you should see the attitudes, like, well, especially when I was on the Pistons. Oh my God. Don't get, my boy Mark Aguayo, I love Mark Aguayo. Don't let Mark Aguayo get that ball a couple times. Boy, it's gonna have a, it's gonna be a conniption fit on the sideline. Chuck Daly, when they pull him out of the game, be like, Brad, go get Mark. They just put their head down when Mark walked by.


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[Assistant] You think JB reacts to the reaction, right?


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[Assistant] Listen, tomorrow night when we tune in.


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[Assistant] This is a freak. He's not getting assists like that. And then that comes, what is that on tonight? Is that on tonight? Uh, no, it's, uh, it's tonight.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's tonight. They play tonight on TV, right? He's a freak. And look, the thing about it, the best thing for him?


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[Assistant] Yea, and I say, so Alan's not an offensive player. I mean, he, he, he feeds off of, uh, he benefits, he benefits, but I don't think you're going to be that person, right? And I don't really need you to be if Mobley steps up and does his thing, because I can't have more than three people really getting it in, right? The other people are complimentary. So my eyes is not on Jarrett. It's, how much lead, Evan, you're three.


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[Assistant] I say your consistency is what this is about. Can you consistently be a threat to go from the foul line extended in scoring a block?


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[Assistant] Well, here, the league and the betters are not a believer yet because they saw what happened in New York.


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[Assistant] The regular season is a regular season. It's getting fun to watch, but the bread and butter is in the playoffs.


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[Assistant] So if you're making a step as a franchise to the next level.


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[Assistant] I said, I think I said in the answer that they could be, but if you surround them with the complimentary people across the front line, if you're gonna go small in the back court, your front line gotta be big.


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[Assistant] Joe will tell you 6'3", but okay, I'll give Joe 6'3". Alright, so the small guards in the stature of NBA players, your front line better be big.


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[Assistant] Is that, is that vibe better? I'm always one, I'm always one G that when you get a transition of talent which Donovan Mitchell is.


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[Assistant] That if you have a chance to acquire it, you acquire it. But I'm also a proponent of big lineups. I like big guards. And I like big forwards. I just, we play big. In Chicago, I'm gonna tell you when we want some lineups here. So, Pippen will run the one at 6'7".


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[Assistant] Right? Contest, lot, length, defend, right? And so if you don't have those pieces like that, I can still play with guards, but the front line's gotta really do its thing here. I just keep coming back to it, Bull. That threes position.


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[Assistant] You're gonna know real quick in this season where the hole is, if there's a hole. You're gonna know it real quick.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. So I would say, I would tell you this. And so, uh, and I, here, nice young man. I, I, at the, uh,


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[Assistant] The Cavs had a gala a couple weeks ago. Wine and Gold Gala. And so he and I got to talking in the hallway. He and I. Yeah. Monty and I.


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[Assistant] And a real pleasant conversation. Handles himself well. You like him? Uh, like him. And then I ran into Derek Coleman and Grant Long this summer at a Retired Players Association event. Derek Coleman. In Vegas, right? That's what I asked them about. You know, they knew I was broadcasting for the Cavs. And they were like, I said, what about Imani Bates? Let me tell you about Imani Bates. He's got a lot of talent. But he's somebody who's got to harness it and bring it in. Right?


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[Assistant] He never really had that coming up when somebody was saying that this is where we're going. But he got talent. Somebody's gotta bring it in. So for me, the things I've seen from the summer league, early in the preseason, he got a chance. I told him this. I said, you have a chance.


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[Assistant] I said, and I will tell you this, if they give you two minutes, turn into four. If you get four, turn into eight. If you get eight, turn into 16. 16 into 32. And you do that by being productive. I said, I said, be on time, be about your business and show them that you're dependable. I said, you gotta, you gotta, so far it's been okay. I said, you got a pathway.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I did. I wanted to see what it looked like. And so...


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[Assistant] His mind, when I talked to him, I was like, his mind is in the right place. That's good.


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[Assistant] I said, did you know Kobe never really got in his first year like that? They only played him five minutes. And he said, I knew that because I followed Kobe. I said, yeah, that's how it works in this league. You earn your keep here.


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[Assistant] And then you build upon that. When you get an opportunity, 2 to 4, 4 to 8, 8 to 16, 16 to 32. You can just remember that. Yeaah. And not get bit out of shape. And it is a process. Yes it is. Don't be frustrated.


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[Assistant] Because he can fill it up, right? And the other thing about the three positions that you have there, you can't have a conscience.


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[Assistant] What, what are you at? And I'll say Caris Lambert out the picture. He's a guy that can give you punch.


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[Assistant] It would be second round in the playoffs would be the appropriate step. Second round or beyond would be the appropriate step. They have to.


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[Assistant] Gotta get something for him. Well, I hear, and I, and you know, we, we're gonna hope that everything goes. Sure. Cause Adam Mitchell looks like he's ready to go, right? You get to the All-Star break and it's looking shaky?


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[Assistant] And that's when deals are cut, right? That's when people like start looking at their futures. So I don't know. So here, there's enough on the line and on the table, everybody included. That's players. That's JB.


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[Assistant] Picking up on paper, it looks good, right? The problem is, it stays hurt. Other thing, you gave up your heart and soul here to get these people, right? Cause, cause, cause, uh, uh, uh,


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[Assistant] But when it came, but when it came to the Celtics and leading green.


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[Assistant] Those are the guys. Yeah, right. So now I'm not sure if Prozinc is going to bleed green.


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[Assistant] I heard Reggie Miller last night said that Great Ant Meyers had texted Reggie Miller and said, cause Reggie was like, man, the joker here, he in the top two here. Right. And then, uh, Ant Meyers texted Reggie and said, well, I saw Bill Walton in his prime. And he was like, Annie?


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[Assistant] We have 50 hours before we find out if DTR has improved from his last start. Or he plays like a VCR. Obscure and obsessed.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. Uh, Jason, good to have you in. Good to be here. Can't wait to get your thoughts on where we're going with the Browns. What, what, what we're doing moving forward. But first, uhm, hello, Mikey McNuggets. Happy Friday.


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[Assistant] That's pretty cool. That is a fun bet. Very fun bet. Alright, you mentioned it. Joe Flacco, uh, not a member of the Browns yet. He's coming in for a workout.


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[Assistant] And let's go around the horn here and see what we think about that. Bo, you like it? Uh, I mean, listen, am I excited? There was to be excited about Joe Flacco. He's, he's not got much left of the tank, however.


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[Assistant] He's probably better than what they got. But yeaah, I do like it. Uh, he's a veteran. Again, I said, what I said about Matt Ryan the other day holds for Joe Flacco, even though I think Matt Ryan's a little better, but he's been, you know, Joe Flacco is not doing TV.


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[Assistant] So, you bring in the veteran, you say to him, hey listen, we may need you in a couple of weeks, we're gonna see with DTR guys. If DTR plays well, I start him the rest of the year. If he's terrible, in the next week or two, I go to Joe Flacco.


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[Assistant] 20 touchdowns, 19 turnovers. That's bad, but it's a lot better than PJ Walker and so far better than DTR.


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[Assistant] I just don't get why they wouldn't have done this earlier. That's what I, like, you knew PJ Walker, Philip, wasn't it? So why didn't you make this move?


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[Assistant] Three weeks ago. And that's why I thought I, when I was on with you guys, whatever day outside the facility, I thought they would go practice squad off another team only because


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[Assistant] Flacco's been out there all year, so if you wanted to go this route, you should have done it a month ago when you saw that Philip wasn't quite it. I do like what a veteran like that can bring just in terms of the film room and how he can help DTR and the sidelines on film.


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[Assistant] He's a veteran, he's seen it all. So that sort of leadership and mentorship.


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[Assistant] is far more important than anything he can contribute on the field. He doesn't fit their mold. You know, the Browns have tried to keep all these quarterbacks the same in terms of


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[Assistant] What they can do, their abilities. Flacco's a statue, he can't move at all. He's the antithesis of what they have. Absolutely. So the protection really has to hold up if and when he ever gets in there. Right. Well that's why he's had so many fumbles, because he gets hit. Yeaah, he just, he can't move. Yeaah, same thing in New York.


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[Assistant] Maybe they didn't bring him in earlier. Maybe he had no interest in being on the practice squad. Maybe he's got an ego and a veteran he's been around this long and thinks I'm not going to come back in for a practice squad spot or whatever else. Well maybe he was thinking, well with Watson healthy, I'm never going to play.


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[Assistant] Uh, Flacco's made a ton of money too, but clearly I guess he's still interested. So we'll see. I think it could be very helpful just in what he can provide and experience. I don't know if he's really going to be impactful on the field.


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[Assistant] If the Browns are dealing with a patchwork offensive line, which they have a little bit of right now, if Flacco goes in there, at least with that,


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[Assistant] I gotta believe that he's got a couple of decent games in him. A couple. He ain't playing great. He's not...


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[Assistant] Gonna be consistently solid ten games in a row. I don't see any way. But if they have to play him, he's probably got two, three serviceable games in him. Even if he has some that are a little below that. PJ Walker's got none. Zero.


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[Assistant] Zilch. We don't know about DTR. If you build a continuum that you really like on one side and you really dislike on the other side, I'm pretty much in the middle


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[Assistant] I'm ambivalent on it and I think your point of having a player coach on the sideline that can calm DTR down I think is invaluable. I think my only question here is this isn't a signing, this is a workout. Why just Joe Flacco?


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[Assistant] I agree with that. If I'm the Browns, and I'm car shopping, I'm not just test driving one car. I want to kick the tires on a lot of guys. I want to see, what does Matt Ryan physically look like? Does he have a desire, to your point? I also, I would, you know,


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[Assistant] Think that there'd be four or five guys. Nick Foles. Nick Foles is one of them. Guys that we've talked about that they would bring in, kick the tires on all of them. And then instead of choosing, yeah, he's it or he's not, you've got four or five to look at and say, you know, if all of these guys considering the body of work, how long they've been out of the game, this person fits what we're looking for best.


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[Assistant] So I'm a little surprised that it's just Jill Flacco. Now in fairness, maybe I agree with you, I'm surprised they're not looking at options. Right.


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[Assistant] You know, they maybe look, maybe they're considering some guys on practice squad. Those guys they can't bring in for a workout, obviously. So that might be it. Maybe, you know, maybe Ryan just has no interest. Maybe Folds has no interest at this point. Have you heard, Jay, that they are calling anybody else? No, I haven't, but I haven't asked that. Uh, but usually how this goes, my guess is yesterday was not the first time they talked to Flacco.


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[Assistant] Sure. My thought is that they've probably been in contact with him for the last couple of weeks. Sure. They've probably settled on that. And these guys say what you want. They're proven.


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[Assistant] older guys with egos and you're not going to bring in Flacco and put him next to, we'll use Matt Ryan and say, okay, now go compete. No, I don't think you do it at the same time. And, and that's where I was going there. So if they don't like what they see out of Joe today, well then they're not going to sign them and maybe they go to candidate number two comes in next week. But the clock's ticking.


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[Assistant] Wasn't a career starter in signing franchise deals. Maybe a guy like that might sit on the sidelines and collect a big paycheck as opposed to coming here and working for League Minimum. I don't know. This is what the...


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[Assistant] And the guy won a Super Bowl and he did it betting on himself. I thought that was one of the ballsiest things I've ever seen a player do. He decided to go into the final year of his deal and he said to the Ravens, I'm good.


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[Assistant] I'm betting on myself knowing that he had a great defense. I can do enough to get this team over the top.


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[Assistant] I like a guy that believes in himself so much, he's betting on himself. So, you know, I don't think he's going to be a big factor. If he's playing at all here, it's probably a bad sign. It means DTR had more bad games.


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[Assistant] That's, that's a guy going to the blackjack table.


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[Assistant] Knowing he has a system of counting cards and knowing he can't lose.


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[Assistant] And when you get on those roles in life, sometimes they perpetuate what comes next.


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[Assistant] And I think that was one of those instances where we watched in real time and everybody in the sport said,


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[Assistant] Where did this come from? He was splitting kings and...


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[Assistant] If I had to choose between flaco and falls, I'd take flaco.


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[Assistant] You would? Yeaah. How about you guys? Flak or foals? Flip a coin. I mean they each have a super bowl. 50-50. Yeaah. We have no idea what kind of shape they're in.


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[Assistant] You know, I mean, if he's playing poorly and he gets replaced, now you're on your fourth quarterback in the season. That's never good. Who knows? Listen, I'm not writing off anything at this point this year. Any crazy thing can happen. Obviously, it's not good that Deshaun Watson's hurt. The Browns chances of


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[Assistant] Getting to the playoffs, winning in the playoffs, doing everything, are lower now. But, you know, who the hell knows? Defense has picked


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[Assistant] You know, defense is, I agree, I don't know that we're fully in a defensive area yet, but it is, at least this year, and a little bit last year, swinging towards defense. Now, there's other good teams in the AFC, like Pittsburgh and Baltimore and Kansas City, who also have good defenses, and in two of those cases, have better, much better offenses than the Browns. Right.


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[Assistant] And I don't know how this compares to other seasons. In my mind, it's more than we've seen in the past.


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[Assistant] But they'd mentioned that here we are, week 10, 49 different quarterbacks have taken snaps in the NFL. It's going to be, well, that may, started or taken snaps? Played. Okay. Now, if they said started, I missed that, but I think they said 49 different quarterbacks have played. Yeah.


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[Assistant] That tells you that more than half the teams have used two quarterbacks.


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[Assistant] Okay, that's a bigger snap. I think that's a bigger, right. And it's going to be 50 next week probably because Jake Browning is going to start for the Bengals. Exactly. Probably. And he hadn't started yet. So, that's a stunning number to me. Do you guys think that that will lead to a shift in the way teams currently view


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[Assistant] Backup quarterbacks because we've talked about it. They don't really, I mean, everybody has said, well, if, if the strong gets hurt, our season's over.


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[Assistant] Well, I don't know that that should be the case when half the teams are losing their starting quarterback, at least for a


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[Assistant] I think what's happened, and I don't even think it's about all the injuries this year, it's more about the, for the first time in a very long time, the swing back to defense. Because for much of the last 10-15 years,


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[Assistant] When you, when you have a top quarterback and we're talking elite, elite status, it's the dollars that you commit to him. It makes it really difficult to commit significant dollars to a spot that doesn't play. But isn't it throwing bad money?


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[Assistant] It's not that. It's your, it's your starting defensive tackle.


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[Assistant] Which is the going rate. If you're talking like a mid-tier quarterback, if you wanted to vote, what did Jacoby get this year from Washington? He got 8 million I think, didn't he? So if you want to spend 8 million, what's Elijah Moore making? Or what's some of these defensive tackles making? Somebody else somewhere. That's the trade-off. Would you rather have Maurice Hurst or would you rather have Jacoby Brissette? I'll take Maurice Hurst.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so you'd literally be prioritizing your backup quarterback at that number as a top five player. And I don't know how teams can do that.


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[Assistant] Go just off the cap hit. Well, there's bonus money in there and you can restructure deals and kick the can down the road. It gets really confusing.


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[Assistant] But the bottom line is, if you have to, even if you have to pay him a signing bonus and a base salary, put that together. If that guy's making 8 million this year, do you really want to spend that 8 million, 10 million, 7 million, whatever it is? In the end, they should have kept Josh Dobs. They should have kept Josh Dobs. Well, or at least, I think we talked, I can't remember when I was in. Okay.


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[Assistant] Now we have the benefit of the results to make that argument. Well look, that's what being a GM and a front office employee in the NFL is all about. Speculation.


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[Assistant] Something we're not doing today, but we've done on many Fridays where we draft the players.


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[Assistant] You know, if we were taking the two teams, we draft the players. We had a lot of fun with that last week. It was a very intricate conversation. Now we all agreed last time the Browns played the Steelers,


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[Assistant] How many weeks is it now? Seven since that game, whatever it is, roughly. Well that was week two and we're going into week eleven, right? Correct. So nine weeks later. Nine weeks, yeaah. So two months and change later. Uh, where do we feel right now? Can I start on that? Yeaah, go, please. So now you can give me Garrett.


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[Assistant] And, uh, I had this, it's funny, even before I knew we were doing this on the show today, we had a very similar conversation in a group upstairs, uh, going into the Pittsburgh week and then after. And we all kind of were in agreement that, gosh, Watt just is making these splash plays, that's what you want your franchise guy to do.


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[Assistant] For me, by the way, and I think I said this at the time, it's like picking between Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron. I mean, these guys are great elite players. And so, you know, it's not the Brady or Manning comparison because Brady obviously had so much more team success. With these guys, it's splitting hairs.


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[Assistant] And for me I said I'm putting Watt above Garrett because of the splash plays. I think that Garrett had more to offer and I wanted to see him have a bigger impact when the game was in the balance. Cause I hadn't seen that from him. So.


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[Assistant] Reserving the right to change our mind as we all do and should as we're taking in more information.


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[Assistant] I now believe that I again have Garrett slightly ahead of Watt. And the reason is he has made those splash plays that we talked about so often with TJ Watt.


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[Assistant] Raising his level when the game dictates it. And for that reason, right now,


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[Assistant] I have Myles Garrett over TJ Watt. As close as it is, do you have Myles Garrett further ahead of Watt, even if it's by a tiny bit, than you did before those two teams played the first time? Yes I do. Now again, splitting hairs. So Bull, if this was a 10 mile race,


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[Assistant] You know, before miles was ahead by 10 feet.


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[Assistant] And then TJ moved ahead by 10 feet. Yeaah. But now I think Miles is ahead by 15 feet. Yeaah, that sounds reasonable. So, you know, is it something that could be made up in two games? Or in this game? Possibly.


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[Assistant] We'll, we'll weigh this after the game. But again, it wasn't, it wasn't, I wasn't disparaging Miles Garrett, nor am I disparaging TJ Watt right now by saying I think Garrett's better. I think these guys are Hall of Fame trajectory. I think they're both


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[Assistant] Top three or four, hell, I think they're probably the front runners for Defensive Player of the Year, aren't they? Oh.


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[Assistant] When you say one's better than the other, it sounds like it's disparaging to whoever is. But for me, it's always been close, but right now...


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[Assistant] Give me our guy. By the way, Mike, before we continue,


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[Assistant] I think he has. He's had some injuries too though. TJ has.


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[Assistant] Somewhere in there. And it's funny, TJ has two and a half more sacks, he's played three more games.


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[Assistant] Uhm, the tackles for loss, I think TJ, I think TJ is better against the run. Although Miles Arrow is going up for me against the run. Yes, he's been better against the run. But one thing TJ Watt has always had a major advantage over Miles Garrett is, until this year, talent around him. Yeaah, that's true. That is very true.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's a problem. He doesn't need to. He doesn't need to. That's exactly right. He's so big, fast and strong. He doesn't need that extra half second. Yeah. And so it's those five yard gimmies that drive me crazy. I would rather take yourself out of running plays if you want. You got 10 guys behind you to clean it up.


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[Assistant] Now it's second two. If it's, even if it's first in ten, now it's first in five.


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[Assistant] Think about this for, think about this for a minute, which I, I, I'm with G, maybe not as big a gap as you think, a little bigger than you think.


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[Assistant] If Miles, if it had been reversed, let's say Miles Garrett had been a stealer his whole career and T.J. Watt had been a Brown.


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[Assistant] I think TJ Watts still very good, but not as good as he is in Pittsburgh. I think Miles Garrett's even better than he was here. Well, cause he's got better talent around him. And what's amazing is I think we'll all agree this is his best season so far. And this is really the first time


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[Assistant] That this organization has surrounded him with the kind of talent he deserves. And he stayed healthy. That's been a key part of it too. And to your point, about if he was us tealer, he'd be playing a lot more bigger games. And it's just human nature. When you're just getting beaten down week after week and getting your ass kicked as a team.


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[Assistant] It takes some of the edge off. It's just human nature. If you're in the Steelers and you're in playoff contention every single year, it matters. We've forgotten the 0-16 and the 1-15.


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[Assistant] In just how demoralizing and how small every one of those games felt. When you're 0 and 8, you're thinking about January. And think about this, guys, is


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[Assistant] J-J-TJ Watt, especially earlier in his career with Rafflesburger, has played in way more games where the Steelers have been up


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[Assistant] Maybe, Mike, this would be like a two weeks of deep dive. But I would love to know the percentage of plays


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[Assistant] A, where, well this, this first one's probably not that hard to find, it's probably easy. Uh, that Miles Garrett got double team versus T.J. Watt. I would bet Miles Garrett.


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[Assistant] Significantly more in their career, which I mean that alone, the fact that their stats are so close when Miles Garrett gets double teamed way more, that's double team more because there's more talent to worry about on the Steelers defensive line.


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[Assistant] There's nobody else that the Browns are worried about. I think it's that. I think that's most of it. I also think, I also think if I'm an offensive lineman, I'm more worried about, uh, Miles Garrett than I am of T.J. Watt, even though T.J. Watt's great. Right. And also, I'd love to know the percentage


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[Assistant] Pass rush snaps, where the offense you're going against


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[Assistant] I have to bring this up because someone told me yesterday to, when you see G on the show tomorrow, please tell him one thing for me. And I said, what? And so I want your honest reaction here. He said, will you please tell G Bush that everyone that drank the Kool-Aid died?


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[Assistant] Because defense is trending in the other direction right now, and because the Browns defense has been so great,


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[Assistant] I think their odds of winning in the playoffs are going to be very slim, unless DTR is...


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[Assistant] You know, Brock Purdy or something close to that. But, uh, man, if he threw for 1800 yards and kept the turnovers, you know, not out of control, to me, that's a huge win for the Browns if he averaged 225 a game.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and Peyton Manning was certainly great, but not at the time. You make a great point. Now, one of the things that has me most optimistic, Quince, and I'm curious where you are on this, this team was built to run the football and


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[Assistant] You know, the injury in week two to Nick Chubb at the time seemed devastating. And I think if you would have pulled a thousand Browns fans and asked them,


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[Assistant] How many of you believe that the Browns will have the number two rushing game in the NFL going into week 11? When you're gonna play nine games without Nick Chubb? Eight games, whatever it's been to this point?


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[Assistant] Three Ravens game. I'm not talking about the Ravens game. Everyone was terrific in the Ravens game and they get all the credit for that. Prior to that.


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[Assistant] I will show you scatter charts and everything else of Jerome Ford's like,


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[Assistant] Clock control, when you control the ball, you control the clock.


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[Assistant] That was a good rushing attack. By the way, Quincy, you said they ran well against Tennessee. They averaged two and a half yards per carry against Tennessee. Isn't that the game they ran like 40 times?


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[Assistant] So if we look at, if we look at what's the measurable snap for team play wins, right? Now there are a lot of times you can look at a team with six wins. You can even do this with the Browns and say, yeah, but, but it's a win. You can't take that away in rushing.


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[Assistant] From an aggregate standpoint, this Brown's defense


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[Assistant] They run it more. They're a team that was built to run. I'm glad they're running it as much as they are. I was yelling for them to run it more last year. They're good at running the football and my initial point that started this was, I don't think that you would have had many Browns fans that would have told you


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[Assistant] I mean, I think they have a chance to keep improving. Jerome Ford was impressive. I have, I have not, I thought Jerome Ford had been very bad.


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[Assistant] He was. He has been very bad. I don't think that's been true. I think it's been. Okay, but you guys were with us when we said they should bench him, basically. I wanted to see more of another running back. Now, and they astutely pointed this out during the broadcast.


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[Assistant] I'll readily admit that. Now, I'm willing to say, because I've had a high ankle sprain, and I think most of us have, it's hard to get to the bathroom, yet this guy was on the field, so I can't judge him for the poor numbers that he put in that game. Let me bottom line it. Let me bottom line it from my perspective and I think Jay's perspective.


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[Assistant] Cleveland's backs averaging 3.7 yards of carry since Chubb's injury at Pittsburgh ranks 25th in the league.


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[Assistant] Everybody knows that. You can pick a number to make your case for anything. However, for my purpose, I want to take the number that


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[Assistant] Talks about the entire season. Not a quarter, not before this game, not a half. I'm gonna give you the biggest number that we have. Information is power. The more we have, the better we are at making a long term opinion.


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[Assistant] Yesterday at this time, if you were to make a list of guys that you want to see the Browns bring in, who would be the top of that list of the guy that you wanted them to sign moving forward?


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[Assistant] Yeah, let's hope it all works out. Quince, great to see you again. Great job and tell people quickly where they can see your show because I'm with G. I love watching your show. I think you have great Brown's content. Where can folks see you?


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[Assistant] Right, they had DFA'd him, so they had to trade him. At least they got something for him, not much. God, when you consider where he was two years ago.


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[Assistant] Wait, why would that be? Cause teams are thinking pass and they're catching them off guard.


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[Assistant] Oh, you talk about shotgun runs? Yeah, I mean, typically teams will run it under center, but they do run it from the gun. But that was, those stats are opposite ends of this. So that was just against Baltimore.


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[Assistant] I'm sure that every team probably has similar numbers, but that to me seems like it's unusual. I don't know about that. That's a big step. I think it's unusual. I don't think teams have similar numbers. No, I said I think mostly I would guess.


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[Assistant] I know we're talking run game, but Deshaun has always been a shotgun quarterback. He's very comfortable with the shotgun. And I was talking to him before the shoulder, before we knew about the shoulder, I was talking to him after the Baltimore game. And he said that Kevin likes putting him under center at times to try and get certain looks out of the defense. Now I wish I could tell you what those looks were. He didn't tell me. But I think it's Kevin.


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[Assistant] I know the Bengals run better when Burrows under center. By the way, a couple of Browns injury updates. DeJuan Jones with some video here just a minute ago of him practicing.


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[Assistant] So it looks promising. Oh, that's good. He's practicing. Juan Thornhill and Marquise Goodwin did not practice, so I gotta assume those guys are not playing.


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[Assistant] I can't think of any other quarterback that's like, there's some, there's other guys who are great late in games, but usually they're at least good the rest of the game. He sucks the rest of the game.


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[Assistant] And he's been really good late in games. That's when you want to be good. That's like Deshawn was 6 of 20 in the first half, 14 of 14 in the second half. Like, I know you can overcome what you do in the first half. You can't overcome what you do in the second half if it's bad.


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[Assistant] I don't know that there are many offensive coordinators on the field, and why would that help? I don't know. I mean, AVP is. I know he doesn't call the plays, but AVP is on the field for the Browns. But most offensive coordinators are in the booth.


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[Assistant] I'm not saying their offense is great now, but it's, it was marginally better since they moved him down on the field.


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[Assistant] Well, if you remember the first time they played, the Browns absolutely dominated that football game. Going into the fourth quarter, they had the lead, they held Pittsburgh's offense to minus yards in the fourth quarter, yet they lost the game because their defense had the strip sack fumble touchdown.


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[Assistant] A bit of a hurry up, just a tempo offense because it seems like he operates better out of that.


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[Assistant] He does, and we were, especially me, we were all critical of the contract extension.


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[Assistant] Uh, in, in some way, shape, or form. We just, we know, we're glad that we had them, but we thought they overpaid for them. But I think that...


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[Assistant] I also feel like him being a threat now in the offense helps the running game.


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[Assistant] Well, for sure. I think it's something else that the defense has to pay attention to. And another thing that helps the running game is what a good blocker he's turned into. And full credit for him for that. Absolutely. I mean, it wasn't that long ago, guys. They brought Austin Hooper in here and David wanted out. And he was trying to get out. And Kevin's the one that got him back in the boat. Not only did he get him back in the boat, he totally turned around and, and not Kevin, but


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[Assistant] David turned around what type of blocker he was. He wasn't a very good blocker earlier in his career. He's an excellent blocker now, and he's totally bought in.


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[Assistant] Does he earn every dollar of that contract? I don't know, but there isn't nothing. It's sort of like the left tackle debate and the right tackle debate. What else are you going to get? Who are you going to get? If you move on from that guy, okay, well fine. What else is out there? And there wasn't a tight end is another, it's not a left tackle premium, but it's a premium position in terms of what his skill set is.


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[Assistant] So I'm totally fine with. We know what he is. We know what he is. He's never going to be in the Kelsey category. We know that by now. But what he does provide is very good. He's not in the elite tier. He's not Kelsey. He's not Kittle. He's not Hawkinson. He's in that next tier though, isn't he? Now. He's definitely in that. He's moved into that next group.


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[Assistant] He's probably, yea, somewhere like between 6th and 8th best tight end, and even if he's not worth every last dollar or so what, he's worth a million less, whatever. At this point, yes, he's finally put it all together. This is clearly, he's on his way to his best year, like Miles Garrity stayed healthy this year.


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[Assistant] And he's, those numbers, uh, yards after catch, and broken tackles, being the best in the league. He's, you know, he always had the physical skill.


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[Assistant] You know, sometimes the numbers don't tell the whole story, you know. And so the Browns are, I mean, the Steelers are a good example of that.


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[Assistant] I mean, frankly, the Browns are a good example of that. They shouldn't be 6-3 based on what they've done offensively, and yet they are too, so. Yea, you take it. Now, the Browns have turned it around because they've been forcing turnovers and not giving up turnovers in the last couple of weeks, but earlier this season, remember they got out


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[Assistant] I don't want to discount the work that he's put in because I'm sure it's been great.


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[Assistant] Jason, isn't that just the Jim Swartz factor? That he's using the guys that he has to their strengths and he looks like a completely different player than he did last year. And I think a lot of that is he doesn't, he's not fighting off linemen.


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[Assistant] You know, when you fix the defensive tackle issue, when you fix the upfront issue that they had last year, how many times we say it, fix the defensive tackles, everything on this defense is going to look different. And that's, I think is a huge part of it.


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[Assistant] Obviously they had a ton of injuries last year at the linebacker position. So now he's in a spot where the guys up front create all the chaos and he just comes in and cleans it up. It's the perfect role for him. He's excelling in it. He's thriving and you know, I, I don't know if he could have done this in Joe would scheme or not. I still think Joe, there's a lot of problems there, but he, he had,


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[Assistant] Car mechanics as defensive tackles last year. And, and, and you saw what happened as a result. And when you clean up the middle of the defense, now you're seeing what a massive, massive difference it makes. And the trickle down effect is guys like J. O. K. and Grant Delpit having monster years. We don't follow every team as closely as we follow the Browns, but I'd be hard pressed to find a player in the NFL this year that is improved.


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[Assistant] More than J.O.K. It totally agrees. I mean, he, he, what, last year was one of the worst linebackers in the league. This year he's been one of the best. I mean. Well, Dequel literally said, I'd, I'd, I'd caught him.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think, I think the Browns did this for multiple strategic reasons. One of them is they know that Joe Flacco can get hot. He's shown it before. Joe Flacco, when he won the Super Bowl, they were the team that went on the road as a wild card team three straight weeks, got it done and went to the Super Bowl and won.


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[Assistant] Campbell on himself. Yeaah. True. On top of that, we just saw Joseph Flacco smoke us here. We just saw him lead a comeback here where we, I thought derailed our season last year when we lost to the Jets in the way we did. Ten and one over here.


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[Assistant] Second of all, or third of all, now number three, uhm,


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[Assistant] He knows the division. He knows exactly. He's played against our ball. He's played against the Bengals. He understands the division. He understands what the climate is like and he knows what it feels like to have to be able to play these, these teams. And then, and then finally, I think that the Browns are saying something to us. Look,


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[Assistant] I think what was best for the Cleveland Browns if they want to move forward is you need somebody that people understand where you're going to be at. Joe Flacco will throw on time.


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[Assistant] Joe Flacco will get to his third or fourth progression or second or third progression. He's not going to ad lib a bunch. And when you have the weather getting bad and you just want somebody not to turn the football over, I'd rather have a guy that knows where to throw the ball immediately and get it there rather than trying to extend plays and have turnover. Right. Exactly. Two other things.


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[Assistant] There was something that was said, I think I read it yesterday that said, uhm, because Matt Ryan was cut.


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[Assistant] Uhm, they still owe him money. But if Matt Ryan was to come back and take another job, he would get whatever.


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[Assistant] Or helping them diagnose and break down film before it starts. Like that's the thing, like looking for little things over here, this is what you should be doing or how you should move. They needed to get a veteran


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[Assistant] For a number of reasons and one of the biggest reasons is if DCR is playing in a playoff game or playing in a huge game and you don't have...


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[Assistant] It's the reason why when you buy a mortgage on a house, they make you have homeowners insurance. They don't let you buy a half a million dollar house and say, well, if the fund comes, if the tornado hits were screwed, no, they make you pay for it. Like if you got a top notch quarterback,


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[Assistant] You, you have to start allocating and thinking about like what's best for my team. If I, if I know that the quarterback is so important, why are you devaluing the person that came after that?


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[Assistant] No, I agree with that. I'll ask the question before we move on. Would you rather have a rookie 5th round corner being your 4th or 5th corner or a solid quarterback that can come in and win you 2-3 then?


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[Assistant] Miles Garret is a, is a nuclear weapon.


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[Assistant] Uh, he's just simply better than everybody and it's so, is he so far ahead of everybody?


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[Assistant] Here's the thing, you gotta think about it. Joe Woods was the worst coordinator I've ever seen for three years. He lined Myles Garrett up there to get double team and triple team and did nothing about it.


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[Assistant] Like, we, Miles Garrett played on a team that didn't win a game. Well they won one game, won them 15, and he still had 10, 8, 9, 10 sacks that year.


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[Assistant] Like, he's playing now with guys that are now just up to his level, but the Emmanuel August of the world...


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[Assistant] Come on man, he played with the Danny Shelton's of the world. Like, like, I mean, this guy T.J. White is playing with one of the best defensive tackles of our time and Cameron Hayward, he always has a running mate at the other side. They always, they always have an impact safety impact linebackers.


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[Assistant] That, that people won't give them a look, or people just, they underestimate their skill level based on the fact that the Cleveland Browns, you get credit for how good your team is. And the Browns just have not been good enough.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I agree. Quincy, what, what, what is your, uh, what, what are your expectations for DTR? Uhm, and, and what are those expectations moving forward? Uhm, and do you think the Browns can still, you know, have their goals in front of them in terms of the division and making the playoffs?


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[Assistant] I think overall they've been a mid-tier running team. Hold on, hold on, here's the problem we got. We just crowned the Baltimore Ravens as one of the best defenses ever to move, and we just went into their house and ran the ball down their throat. So why would I be mediocre if I could do that against a great team?


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[Assistant] They gon' tell you that Cleveland Browns is an elite running attack because of what they put on film, what they can do, and it ain't about how much you're running and what you're running it for. It's about do you know we're running it and can you stop it? And Baltimore knew we were running it. And they could stop it.


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[Assistant] So you took the time to watch the Run Game in People Block.


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[Assistant] And break down what they missed, what they did, and how they did. Right? You took that time. You go watch them. They up there. Like and subscribe to the channel. You watch them too. I watch them too. So my thing is, what do you, you said that I test all that good stuff.


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[Assistant] That's big. Well, the Browns are running a lot less. You know, I think, uhm, who was talking about this?


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[Assistant] The boot action is just not, like, Jake Burns was talking about this when we had a film breakdown. The Browns used to run a lot of stuff under center and they used to get a lot of give-me-throws with Baker Mayfield because of the boot game.


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[Assistant] And, uh, now teams are playing the boot so well that some of those plays and options aren't really there. So, you know, there's not going to be play action a lot. So you don't have the threat of play action.


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[Assistant] Uhm, if you even go back to when they had Nick Chubb, they never really ran it, uh, uh, that well out of, uh, out of the gun. But here's what you're starting to see. That, that pull and pin action that they're doing with the guards and the centers and tackles.


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[Assistant] When that little toss play, Kareem Hunt runs that really well. Guys are now getting downhill and Jerome Ford is actually starting to run that a lot better. He broke two of those plays in terms of that with the Pittsburgh Steelers. He broke a long one against the Seattle Seahawks and he broke another one.


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[Assistant] Uhm, broke a couple of them against the Ravens. So, you know, now that they've got that pull and pin action, they're gonna have to come up with something after, outside of that. But they never really did a good job.


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[Assistant] Yeah, there are, like, teams like Baker Mayfield. Baker, during those years, the team ran much better under center. Baker was under center a lot. I know the Bengals run better


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[Assistant] I think a lot of it is, so we look at people who perform well in the fourth quarter as clutch.


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[Assistant] Sometimes people perform well by sample size. So if you're a guy that starts off slow and you don't diagnose what the defense is doing to you throughout the game. Oh, you're saying he's getting better as the game goes on.


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[Assistant] What he sees. It's like going down, it's like being a hitter the third time through the lineup. If you got a pitcher that's throwing BBs the first two times you see him, by the time you get to the third or fourth time at a bat, you on him. You just seen a bunch of pictures. He's seeing what the defense is doing and now he's like okay, I'm more comfortable.


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[Assistant] And I think too, like, how much is this is a function of the Pittsburgh Steelers defense does not allow them to get put away or blown out.


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[Assistant] If you already always got very close games, you give yourself a more opportunity to win some of those games because think about it, some people don't get chances for comebacks because the offense, their defenses, the game is over. The offense put a field goal or a touchdown on and the game is down garbage.


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[Assistant] You know, like we say all the time, you know, we go back and forth about run, pass, defense, all this. It's just complimentary football. It's complimentary football to know that, okay, I know I got T.J. Watt, I got Heisman over here, I got a defense that they can't score.


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[Assistant] Even if I'm, even if I'm a quarterback and I'm like, okay, I might want to take a deep shot because I'm a little frustrated. I haven't been able to go downfield. He knows in his head, hey, this defense is going to give me the ball with a good field position and give me another opportunity to go down the field.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think one of the adjustments that Kevin Stefanski was making is, you know, I would go back to the first Baltimore game where, you know, Baltimore was really playing.


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[Assistant] Uhm, with a lot of guys at the, at the, uh, in the line of scrimmage. And so the check release was wide open. David and Joku would check, chip.


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[Assistant] Make sure that everything was squared away and then he would release downfield. The crazy part about it is now they're hitting those routes. They're starting to realize that guess what? Those are almost long handoffs. Those are almost green passes. So he's checking them, releasing, getting their flats. And now when you can drop your coverage into zone,


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[Assistant] And that's why he's getting that head of steam in a moment. And you get the ball short to him really quickly with a head of steam, he's getting 13, 14 yards because he's such a wiry dude to bring down. I like the adjustment that the Browns have made in order to get the ball out quicker.


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[Assistant] His first game where he threw four touchdowns. I talked to him after the game and just congratulated him and Will's a good player. You know, in my opinion, he should have been a first round pick. He played his last year at Kentucky, hurt the whole season and in a bad situation, the offensive coordinator.


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[Assistant] I was only, I was only here for one year, so it was kind of a bad system for Will to be in. Andy, like I said, he was playing injured that whole season, and Will's a tough guy.


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[Assistant] Uh, you know, you don't want him to rush it, but also you want him back out there, like I said, to get, uh, you know, to get ready for these next two games. So it's a tough situation that, uh, you know, only, only Deshaun I think really knows the answer. You know, I think, you know, after going through a week of practice and throwing the football, you know, we've seen some clips of him throwing, throwing a practice where he looked,


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[Assistant] Yeah, you know, for me, I think it's more comfortable knowing that you're going to be the starter. Uh, you know, not only just kind of mentally, you know, you're preparing yourself and, and you're getting ready to, you know, what, whatever it takes to be, uh, to, to start a game in the NFL, you know, for your preparation and everything else that goes into that.


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[Assistant] And you know, so certainly for me, I think it's, it's better to kind of know all week long.


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[Assistant] Uh, a lot with the five wide situation, but, but like I said, it all comes down to the personal preference for a quarterback. If you, if you haven't played in that type of system before and also they throw it on you, it can be a lot because the football does have to come out quick. There's no holding the ball. There's no going from one side of the field to the other with your read. It's, it's pretty much, you know, you're predetermined.


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[Assistant] Uh, but I didn't really have an issue with the play call. You know, I mean, I think, you know, at that point, this is the NFL. You got an NFL quarterback out there. You think he can go out and throw, you know, some quick game like that and, uh, and convert a first down and you have to put trust in those guys in those situations.


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[Assistant] Well, this is how the medical results look and then in the coaching staff or can we count on them to make it through an entire game or is this going to be a situation where he's one hit away, you know, just, uh, you know, not being a devastating, get a big hit, just, you know, normal tackle where he lands on his shoulder and he's out of the game, you know, which makes it tough for a coaching staff to prepare all week to get a guy ready to go. So.


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[Assistant] The Browns weighing against the Niners. There was a bunch of calls in that game that were a little skittish. Both sides. The officials corrected some of them. Some of them were head scratchers. Whatever, man.


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[Assistant] This, a lot of these calls are just split second. They're judgment decisions. The Browns earned this. They earned every bit of it. This defense is for real. We're going to get into it. Some of the numbers they're putting up are numbers that are not allowed. They're not possible in this game. The way the games play today, the way the teams throw the ball over the field.


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[Assistant] This defense is for real. I saw Tyvis put the clip in there, Dante Wittner, poo pooing the Browns. Cleveland guy, Dante Wittner, poo pooing the Browns before the game. Now while he was going off the numbers sheet, he was going off. But guess why those numbers are that bad? Because they played the Browns and were early in the season. That's why their numbers were as bad as they were.


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[Assistant] Yeah, Kevin called him a heat-seeking missile after the game. That's what he looked like. And, and we talked about before the year, if he's gonna have success in the NFL, this is the system for him. The defensive line creates chaos up front, the linebackers clean it up, and he's allowed to play freely, move fast, chase the ball, and he had the best game of his life yesterday.


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[Assistant] You know what's interesting about Kittle and I noticed this late in the first quarter and I'm not saying this is why he wasn't


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[Assistant] A performer yesterday, but there was one play where Miles...


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[Assistant] Later in the first quarter, instead of attacking and going after Trent Williams and trying to get to the quarterback, he turned and absolutely blew up George Kittle. Just blew him up at the line to where Kittle was like flying backwards. And I just smiled at him at the game like, why'd you do that? And he said, you know, you hit him sometimes, you give him that pop early on.


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[Assistant] But I noticed one play, Miles absolutely destroyed, and I said like, were you just trying to get him off his route? Did you guys think he was the primary?


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[Assistant] This schedule was front-loaded. It was. With really good teams. Yeaah. They played the Niners, they played the Bengals, now Burrows on one leg, but I don't care. They played the Bengals, the Bravens, like they played some pretty good offenses and pretty good teams in there. And that makes those numbers even more impressive. It does.


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[Assistant] That's, that can't continue. That will run out eventually.


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[Assistant] I just saw Brock Purdy being really uncomfortable. His feet were a mess, his footwork was a mess, he was never comfortable in the pocket.


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[Assistant] I just, I think that they just got after him. And we've seen a lot in the NFL where a team will march down and score, and then that's it, then they get stoned the rest of the game.


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[Assistant] They've been on the opposite end where they move down and score and they can't get anything. Yeaah. So I just, the secondary played incredibly well. There was nobody open. There was nobody open.


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[Assistant] And, and the back end when you're bringing pressure with four and five.


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[Assistant] You drop extra guys into coverage and it just worked perfectly. The, the line with the secondary worked really well.


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[Assistant] I looked this up yesterday. Vegas, when the Browns are this big of an underdog.


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[Assistant] By far the most in the NFL. I think the Lions were like 63-ish times. Around 75 times before yesterday.


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[Assistant] 5 and 70 in games when they were 9 point dogs or more. 5 and 70. Everything said they were supposed to lose. We've had as many presidential elections as we've had Browns wins when they were 9 point underdogs or more. Seriously, it's now 6 to 6 in presidential elections and Browns wins. So about once every 4 years they do it. It's nothing less.


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[Assistant] No, no, I'm just saying it's just been, it's all of the information has been really confusing. By the way, I'm


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[Assistant] There's probably, I'd say there's a chance he plays against Indy, but I couldn't put a percentage on it.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you're not going to get any argument out of me. I've thought all along that he's a much better coach than people give him credit for.


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[Assistant] I don't think the running game's fixed by any means, but Ford did have a couple of really nice runs in the second half. He got stoned pretty hard in the first half. Yeah. Kareem, he had a couple of great runs. I'll give him his due on that. I still don't, he's still- He's serviceable. Come on, he's better. He's not completely-


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[Assistant] You know what I liked? I liked that they went to Kareem on the last possession because you have more faith in his ball security than the young guy.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you're right. Yeah, it's bad. That's, it's bad. And part of it also is, part of it is...


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[Assistant] Zach tweeted this. Mike, I don't know if you can pull it up off of Zach Jackson's Twitter account.


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[Assistant] The weather applied metrics of, we were talking about the wind earlier, how the wind affected the last kick.


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[Assistant] Basically, the wind pushed that last kick 2.3 yards to the right. Thank you.


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[Assistant] The, the initial kick was point was less than a half of yard from the center. Wow. And then the spin, the spin took it less than a yard to the right. And it was the wind that pushed it the rest of the way. How the hell do they measure that? Isn't that ridiculous? I don't know how they measure that.


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[Assistant] There's gonna be a team or two that says, let's go after this guy. The trend is young offensive minors. That's where you go find your head coach. So he is, he's not, he's not old, but he's not young. No, he's in the middle. And he's not offense. Now, you know, Robert Saleh is the head coach from the defensive side. And it's done very well. And it feels like the worm is...


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[Assistant] They do. And I don't know that they can. But you know, if you hire, if you have a defensive minded head coach, you're constantly going to be losing your offensive guys to head coaching jobs if you hire the right guys. So we'll see. I think worrying about Schwartz leaving now is pointless.


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[Assistant] So credit to Andrew Berry for going out and getting them. The roots of how he landed here go back to Philly. He's a Philly kid. His agent's a Philly kid. Kevin's a Philly guy.


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[Assistant] Uh, PJ to Temple, but PJ told me he wanted to come play for Kevin Stefanski because Kevin pitched him hard coming out of Temple. Again, the Philly connection. He wanted PJ to come to Minnesota. Him and his agent took a deal to go to Indy instead to go to practice squad on Indy. And then when this opportunity presented itself, Andrew reached out to his agent right away as soon as


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[Assistant] So, when this opportunity presented itself, he came here. He actually turned down New England to come to Cleveland. He could have had a chance to be the backup to Mack Jones in New England. It wasn't for sure what was going to happen there, but New England had a better path to be the backup than any other team, and he still came here, and I said, like, why?


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[Assistant] When you have Deshaun Watson in Trench as a starter, and DTR as the long-term backup, this seems like an odd place that you would choose, and he said,


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[Assistant] I want to play for Kevin. Like Kevin believed in me and I want to see what this guy had. They didn't really have much of a relationship, but he wanted to check it out. Wow. So he came here. He knows he's not a starter. He knows. Yeah, but he played well enough to, he kept them in the game and put them in a position to win the game.


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[Assistant] Well, this is where it gets, this is where it's a little bit interesting with PJ is he's not on the 53. So they elevated him for the game, but somebody could claim him right now. Well, he has to agree to go. So it's this where it gets a little interesting.


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[Assistant] But you can, right, but you can elevate three times. So they could put him back down and then bring him back up if they need. But I mean, we just talked about it. Justin Fields did get hurt.


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[Assistant] And he does have ties to Chicago. So does Chicago call him now? And I have no idea the extent of field's injury. We'll know more in the next couple of days. Would Chicago or another team call him and offer him a spot? Yeah, it was a thumb.


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[Assistant] Kinda. They are not going to. What's Percent Making this year?


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[Assistant] I do think DTR would have looked better the second time around. Well how could he look worse? He would have had two weeks to prepare for. I just think that he would have had a little bit more confidence and a little bit more comfortability, but it's impossible to say.


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[Assistant] Is gonna be a little quicker. For the most part, PJ got the ball out on time and on target. Right. The bad pick, I just think it was a great play by Fred Warner. That was fantastic. Great player. Because if you go back and look, PJ wasn't staring him down. He started over here like he went through his reads.


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[Assistant] But Fred just saw it coming. He's a great player and that's what he does. And the sideline interception, it just, he was under pressure.


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[Assistant] Uh, Michael Dunn got bowl rushed on that play and the pressure was coming right in his face. He was trying to get rid of it. They, it's, you know, Zach made the point. I thought it was a great point. They're playing with a very limited playbook right now because the quarterback's limited. So they went back to the sideline route one too many times. The quarterback read it, jumped it, made a great play. That's why the Niners are great defensively.


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[Assistant] But for the most part, I think he got the ball out on time, on target, was safe with it. I know he had the two picks, almost had three. It sounds silly to say that.


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[Assistant] He's such an important piece that goes unnoticed and untalked about. It's a guy we never mentioned. Right. But he's so versatile and he can play guard. He can, he's so often, how often do you hear 68 is now eligible? That's Michael Dunn coming in as sort of that third tight end extra blocker in situations.


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[Assistant] He was, he was a practice squad guy. He was a guy that was supposed to make the 53. He didn't put them on practice squad. He clears waivers and they bring them back up now. And performs admirably. And, and he really did.


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[Assistant] And again, like this is where, when you miss Joel,


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[Assistant] This is the trickle down effect. Now Michael Dunn, who's normally that extra blocker, is now your left guard and now Nick, Nick Harris is in in this other sort of weird utility. It worked. They did a nice job.


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[Assistant] I was, I was a big proponent of going, of paying Jonathan Taylor and making that move. I do think in the right situation, you, if, if, like the defense, I agree with the idea that the defense is proving itself.


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[Assistant] And if the right move is out there, make it. My point is they're not going to do it on a quarterback because there's no quarterback out there that's going to make a difference. It's Deshawn or bust. But if there is a receiver out there, an impact receiver at the trade deadline or running back, because I'm not at all convinced that this running back situation is solved. I don't think Jerome Ford is a feature back. I don't think. I don't think.


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[Assistant] I think, I'm not sure that they've solved their running back issues. Let's put it that way.


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[Assistant] I think you gotta get to Sean back. I mean, we got what? How long till the trade deadline? Three weeks? Four weeks?


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[Assistant] But I'm not going to call it a must-win either. Not when it's week six. It's hard to win on the road in the NFL. Ask San Francisco. Like, it's, it's...


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[Assistant] The fact that the Browns have taken care of business on the front end with home, aside from Baltimore, which whatever, they've had the front loaded schedule with a lot of home games and they've won them. That's key. That's huge because now they've got a lot of road games coming up in front of them.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I didn't notice fans leaving early, but I wasn't really taking attendance. But there, in the, in the close where he missed the kick, there were a lot of 49ers fans in that end zone. So many that on the first kickoff,


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[Assistant] The very wise Garrett Bush. This feels like a punt game. Oh yeaah. Gentlemen.


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[Assistant] He's not playing. Uhm, and also Joel Petonio, this according to Mary Kay Cabot, Joel Petonio and David Njoku, who did play immediately after the burn, is likely to sit out this game as she, as Mary Kay reports, unlikely to play.


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[Assistant] Talk about the Betonio and the Joku situations and whether or not those were made, those decisions are being made because of the Watson situation as well. We'll do that in just a second. First, Tim Couch is on the show today. We have a McNugget five piece. Every Friday he comes at us with five stats that are going to knock our socks off. One of them slipped out of the bag this week because Bull


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[Assistant] We won't talk about that. We'll let that marinate until you do your five piece later in the show. A lot to get to, but first, our first hello of the day to Mikey McNuggets.


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[Assistant] Pre-written headlines. Big, uh, big segment on the 1230 show. We tell you 48 hours in advance, uh, who wins and how the game plays out. So, I mean, what more can you ask for?


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[Assistant] A lot to get to, and we touched on it a little bit to start, but obviously the big news is Watson is not playing.


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[Assistant] I'm wondering if the franchise isn't going the other way and there's still an inside chance he could play, for instance.


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[Assistant] My hope here is that the Browns learned from that mistake and they said, here's the way we're preparing. Get ready, PJ, because you're the starter.


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[Assistant] And there's still maybe perhaps an outside chance that Watson wakes up, takes a shot, throws the football and says, coach, I feel great. You're in.


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[Assistant] We didn't, we never heard those words leading up to the Ravens game. We just heard bruised shoulder. And then the medical staff clears him.


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[Assistant] Well, I don't know because Thursday we heard he threw one ball and came off the field.


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[Assistant] On Monday, Stefanski saying he was cleared to play.


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[Assistant] It doesn't look like that was true either. Wednesday, the GM, Wednesday of last week, the GM says, oh, he's playing against San Francisco. Right. Like it was a short thing.


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[Assistant] And you know the longer he sits out, the more that either misdiagnosis or


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[Assistant] We've already had one of the toughest Browns in the last 40 years come out and say, I'm sorry, I'm playing. You're not keeping me off the field.


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[Assistant] When player, that's friendly fire. Which is unfair. It is unfair. And he's taking friendly fire now that wasn't necessary if the coach and the GM had their messaging correct.


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[Assistant] You know what I'm hoping on? When I asked Jason the question earlier, is it possible that because they've been wrong with everything they've told us, is it possible they're wrong again and he runs onto the field Sunday like Willis Reed coming out of the Knicks tunnel and he plays?


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[Assistant] That's what I'm banking on, I'm hoping for, I'm not banking on it, I'm hoping that they've been wrong, they're track wrong.


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[Assistant] No, I don't. No, in fact, in my notes for today's show, I said, it's unlikely we'll see him until Seattle at the earliest, in my, in my mind.


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[Assistant] Which is what we said. Like that's exactly what we said here and said. And now you're like, because with each week, you're right, Jay, nobody's going to come in here and learn this playbook. It's one thing if you're a wide receiver or running back.


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[Assistant] You're not learning a playbook in a week. And everybody hates Wens, so I don't know. But anyway, that ship is- There's nobody to go get. At this point the ship is sailed. Who do you want? At this point- Do you want PJ Walker or do you want Carson Wentz? I mean, I would rather- I don't even have to think about that.


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[Assistant] Sure, I'd rather have Wentz, but at this point I think it's too late. I think last year we talked about, we all said, well, listen, if Watson's out for the year, the season's over. This was before we knew he was going to be just, it was going to be 11 games. Right. And I would agree with that because our defense was like Swiss cheese. We had holes everywhere. This year,


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[Assistant] Because we have the defense that we have, and because I don't think anybody's gonna sprint away from the pack in the north,


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[Assistant] It's incumbent upon this team to not gentleman's punt like they did last year.


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[Assistant] Get a quarterback in here, get him acclimated, even if it takes three weeks. I'd rather play weeks seven through 17 with Carson Wentz with a couple of


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[Assistant] Listen, I wondered the same thing. Now sometimes with the bruise, it's you and the adrenaline, you just keep going and then all of a sudden when the game is over, you're like, oh my God, what happened?


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[Assistant] Uh, it was always incredible to me after the second you took your shoe off.


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[Assistant] And you do know for sure, and it looks like that's where they are, that the quarterback can't go. And you've got a Pro Bowl lineman and a tight end that's


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[Assistant] Paid a lot of money, and they've got some issues.


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[Assistant] Is this a gentleman's punt with these guys and they're just saying look?


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[Assistant] It's likely an L. They're not probably saying that out loud, but you know what time it is if you're these.


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[Assistant] No, but G's point was it wasn't Petonio's call. Well, they're not out yet though.


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[Assistant] Before the game. Yeah, Judy, he had been critical of Judy and he called him a jag on his podcast.


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[Assistant] And when he came over, he said, Ninja, I don't mess with you. And then he repeated it.


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[Assistant] And so then Steve said, oh, okay, that's fine. I was going to apologize for calling you just a guy who's been a classic underperformer your whole career. But now, forget it. I'm not going to apologize for that.


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[Assistant] If you want to be traded, I would and any general managers call me and ask me if they should trade for you. I'm going to tell them don't do it because he's a classic overachiever and he's never going to be anything. That's a paraphrase.


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[Assistant] Second time I've seen him do something like that. In fact, when he finished, he kind of dropped the mic and said, that's it, back to the studio.


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[Assistant] Like, so I don't know, I think the NFL network's a little different in that they're state-run media.


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[Assistant] And they may actually say something like, bro you can't, you can't go at guys like that.


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[Assistant] And you also make a great point in that they all serve as relief valves for one another. When you have one great player in the offense, which right now, Amari Cooper is the guy. So what do you think Sam?


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[Assistant] Draws so much attention from opposing defenses that Samuel and Ayuk and Kittle are all beneficiaries of that.


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[Assistant] And our guy that would do that, not even to the extent of McCaffrey, is out for the season.


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[Assistant] So what they have is all of the A-list guys and our guys are kinda like borderline D-list, C-list guys that are trying to play the roles of the A-list guys.


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[Assistant] Hey, what's up guys? How we doing today? We're good, we're good. Good. We're asking whether or not this is sort of a punt game.


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[Assistant] Because Deshaun Watson now, mysteriously after being cleared to play, two weeks ago, won't play if these reports are right on Sunday.


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[Assistant] And now also Mary Kay Cabot reporting that it looks like Petonio and Njoku are also unlikely to play. Do you think if Watson was playing that Petonio and Njoku, who finished the last game, would be on the field as well? Or is this just a pun?


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[Assistant] I'll tell you this, your chances of making it improve if you have a serviceable backup. With who we have, the season's over.


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[Assistant] If you're six, cause he was four and seven. If you win that game, he's five and six.


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[Assistant] But not with the Swiss cheese defense, with the elite defense, which keeps them in or wins them a hell of a lot more games last year than they won.


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[Assistant] If we list the reasons the Browns were 7 and, what were they, 6 and 11, 7 and 10? What were they last year? 7 and 10. If we're listing the reasons they were 7 and 10, let's list them. Number one is? Defense. Number two is? Joe Woods. Number three is? Defense. Special team.


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[Assistant] Well, then Trent Williams in the one slot. I disagree with that. I had him down.


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[Assistant] I know he does. And here's the thing, we talk about all of these stars that they have on offense, well, maybe this is proof that the epicenter of that, of an offense is that position.


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[Assistant] You can make this argument. You can make this argument. Trent Williams makes all of the offensive players better. I think McCaffrey does too.


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[Assistant] So, yeaah, cause your guy's still on the board, so you're gonna still take him.


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[Assistant] No, I don't think so. I think we are. I mean, Nick was the defensive player of the year last year.


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[Assistant] Was he that high? Yeah, and Miles was like 19 or 20 or something like that. Yeah, I think that's low. That's egregious. But I mean, I'm surprised that we have.


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[Assistant] I think, I think it's, I think it's a Humber pick putting Miles over Ness. Miles was also behind George Kittle on that list. Yeah, that's great. Okay, who's number five now? Cause we've got...


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[Assistant] I mean, he's the number one ranked quarterback. It's the biggest position in football. You can't win without him. Purdy at six then. Purdy six, lock it in.


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[Assistant] I got, uh, I got your boy, uh, Delpy.


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[Assistant] I had a Mari Cooper slash Denzel Ward. I could be, I could go either way on it.


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[Assistant] Uh, so who's going to attend that? Is it Cooper? Is it?


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[Assistant] Now, there may be no more important player in this game than Amari Cooper. He's all I got.


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[Assistant] But Bull, there's gotta be a means to an end. Like, I can sit here and scream that I want a pony for Christmas. It's not gonna happen. The Browns could have still paid him. There's always a way.


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[Assistant] And let's point this out too. When you're paying your quarterback $890,000.


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[Assistant] Like the Niners are playing Brock Purdy. Look at the flexibility you have. When the Legion, when the Seahawks won their Super Bowl, and Russell was on a rookie deal,


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[Assistant] Yeaah, we can't judge DTR on one game. Yeaah, right. Or maybe we can.


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[Assistant] Okay, let's do our five, our McNuggets five piece.


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[Assistant] You're right with something's got to give because the Browns, as you say, haven't allowed a point. The most points you could score.


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[Assistant] Well, if you're going to go for two, but you're not going to go for two to start the game. So you're right. And I thought about that, but I said no. Bull won't call me on this because they're not going to go for two.


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[Assistant] If you win the toss, you're definitely deferring, right? Oh yeaah. You're putting your defense out there first, and you're hoping like hell. If some miracle happens and you go three and out, the crowd will wake up. Cause I do think the crowd's gonna walk in kinda sleepwalking. Cause let's face it, we think we're going to a funeral, not a wedding.


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[Assistant] If you somehow get the ball early and you get good field position, that crowd will wake up and get on there.


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[Assistant] You're not going to hit a home run every time with these nuggets. Sometimes you bite into a nugget and there's a bone.


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[Assistant] I like that. I also, and I'm sure this is coming, so I'm not going to say it. There's one stat that gives me hope.


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[Assistant] And they may, he may not have a hundred rushing yards, but he'll have a hundred total yards.


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[Assistant] A receiver can get 15 yards downfield in 2.2 seconds.


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[Assistant] Now that doesn't mean we still have to bring them into the ground, and I like our defensive backs and their ability to do that, but this is what that offense is though. That's a foot strike offense.


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[Assistant] So what you're telling me is Jim Swartz is Kyle Shanahan's kryptonite. Kinda.


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[Assistant] Give me all, give me all of their numbers, I can do it. I gotta pull up the email, hold on one sec.


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[Assistant] I was gonna ask you guys as part of my notes today, I was like, what's the number? And my number was 14.


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[Assistant] Because I do think our defense can sneak in a score, even though it's not been their makeup this year. I have faith that, you know, maybe Miles can strip sack, uh, and pick up and take one in. And I think that maybe our offense can run into a touchdown.


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[Assistant] You do? Well, based on that, then we could, you know.


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[Assistant] That's the only argument. That's the only argument. But that's real. I said that Wednesday. I said how many times in the NFL were all the pundits saying in the whole week leading up to a game that this was going to happen and then that happened. However, I would bet


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[Assistant] If we're gonna ding Russell for those numbers late in games, then we talked about Deshaun's season in Houston when they were 4-12 and he had those damn numbers. A lot of them come late. You have a read?


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[Assistant] Alright, because McNuggets said we all had a minute to do this, and uh, G and Bull went two minutes each, I gotta do mine in 20 seconds, but that's all I need. Cause I ca- there's not a lot of sunshine and rainbow. One, Jim Schwartz seems to be the kryptonite for Kyle Shanahan.


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[Assistant] Two, Deshaun is one week closer to coming back to the Cleveland Browns. Three, and lastly, their toughest game will be behind them. To Jason's point, beat Indy, three and three. The world is your oyster.


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[Assistant] On either WKYC plus or go to WKYC dot com. Hit the watch now button. We will see you on channel three, three minutes and seven seconds from now.


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[Assistant] By the way, it's so weird. I think this is the first time ever on this show that I've had people on both sides of me because usually I'm either on this end or if you're not here, I'm on that end. So it's kind of weird. I got to turn both ways. You're used to it.


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[Assistant] For your neck, we're putting you on the end. Thank you. Bernie and I had a great chat off the air and he's going to share some awesome insights when it comes to Deshaun Watson and what he's looking for.


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[Assistant] By the way, the latest line at FanDuel remains the Browns minus two and a half at the Colts this week. The over-under is 40 on the game. Alright, very good. A fairly low over-under as well.


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[Assistant] I mean, as of, I think yesterday they did. They were all saying the same things. Right. So they finally had a conversation about it. Uh, so that's good. In the end, all that matters though is does Deshaun Watson get back? When does he get back on the field? Right. But it is good to see that. But it's good that they seem to be on the same


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[Assistant] Ferdy, let's say he sits for a month, another month.


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[Assistant] He's already been out. This will be four weeks, I think. Well, four weeks from the injury on Sunday. Yeaah. So let's say he sits for eight weeks.


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[Assistant] Knowing what you went through and he's dealing with the same injury.


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[Assistant] And that is probably not going to be 100% no matter what happens this year.


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[Assistant] Do you, like, as good as the defense is, right? The running game played well last week, but it's been inconsistent since Nick Chubb went out.


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[Assistant] But knowing you have what appears to be a championship level defense.