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[Assistant] Is that what we're talking about today? You promised me we're talking about, we brought two of the Roosevelt out cutting experts. Not in America, in North America. In the world.


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[Assistant] That one ridge, year after year, is the place they like to be. Is it similar to that?


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[Assistant] What do you mean? I'm trying to visualize this. So you drop down and all of a sudden you can't hear them because of the topography is blocking the noise? Exactly.


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[Assistant] Are you, from where you first hear them to where you end up having an encounter, is it?


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[Assistant] 2020 will be a good year. And it's a, it's an over the counter tag for archery. Straight up.


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[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


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[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. To become a member, go to rmef.org.


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[Assistant] Thank you Larry. And I was not kidding when I told you that if Michael Jordan showed up here or any athlete, I'd be like, who are you? This is the guy I want to talk to. Thank you.


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[Assistant] Uh, film? I'm like, no. So now that I hear you got to see it, Corey, he's not jerking your chain that it was an exclusive preview that you got.


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[Assistant] So when you started that, Larry, did you say, oh, we're just gonna go out and film all this and we're just gonna get filthy rich?


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[Assistant] Were Elk Fever and Elk Fever 2, were those just one season?


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[Assistant] And that, I reflect on that for two reasons. One, how much work you put into one end product. Two seasons or forty days.


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[Assistant] An episode, one of my friends, Scott Jones, hunts with a longbow. We're hunting in the Ruby country in Nevada. And, uh, we didn't chew on it.


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[Assistant] After Elk Fever, Elk Fever 2, how many other projects or productions did you embark on or complete? There's too many to list.


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[Assistant] Videos. Which at the time you had to pick, do I want a beta tape or a VHS tape?


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[Assistant] I was just enthralled with his spot and stock of mule deer and how he gave, like you were saying, he gave a lot of information along with a hunt. You know, they have this early morning bed and then they got their all day bed.


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[Assistant] One is, what's the biggest change you've seen? And two,


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[Assistant] It's, like he said, it requires grit, it's not easy, it doesn't, normally it doesn't just land on your lap.


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[Assistant] This is just really not something that I can do real well.


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[Assistant] I hope, when someone of Larry's experience says, it should be hard, it's gonna be hard.


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[Assistant] But you, you, you and the way you did things were always just


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[Assistant] Something that was the path that I thought, this is the path you follow. This is how you do it. This guy, he's humble, he's informational, he's all these things. And I just thank you for, one, spending time with us today, but also just being the way you've been.


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[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


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[Assistant] The goal is, what little you and I know about elk hunting, we share with people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. To become a member, go to rmef.org.


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[Assistant] The podcast is also brought to you by Gerber, uh, go to gerbergear.com and learn about the knives, the vital, the big game vital, the gauge premium, all the things that we use when we're out in the woods and not just knives but also some really cool multi tools that they have.


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[Assistant] The Oak Talk Podcast is also brought to you by GoHunt.com, uh, go to GoHunt.com and sign up for the Insider.


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[Assistant] And you brought up the really important part that we should just start with for people to understand. In Montana, we have, I think it's 160 or 165 total elk units.


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[Assistant] There's, the first hurdle that you have to clear in Montana is you have to acquire a general outtag.


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[Assistant] Non-residents, so residents we get to just go buy it over the counter. Yep. And that's our general elk license.


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[Assistant] And then, eh, once you've acquired this elk license, then, at the same time that you're doing the application, you say, if I'm successful in acquiring a non-resident elk license, put me in for...


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[Assistant] And then we've got the quirkiness of your non-resident alcohol license.


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[Assistant] But that's still, people are going to say it.


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[Assistant] And if you draw, because some people, I'm continually amazed at how some people want to apply for these limited entry permits and what they're willing to pay for that. I'm looking at what the refund percentages are here.


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[Assistant] Who was there told me, and I trust this person, that someone got up and said, you know, I hate this ONAC system. Now everybody knows exactly where these isolated public land parcels are. Well, yeah, but.


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[Assistant] Uh, drawing a tag in Montana, I, if you're gonna do it, it's expensive.


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[Assistant] Oh, okay. Well, we can go do that if you want to. You've got enough points, you'd probably draw. I've got three points. I know I'd draw, but where I used to fly that helicopter and the landowner, uh,


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[Assistant] I've drawn it three times for rifle and twice for archery. Uh, so we've flown in there five times. There's, if you're serious about wanting to do a helicopter thing, I've got a list of properties in Montana we can fly helicopters into. I'm sure the audience is like, give me a break.


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[Assistant] And by the time the politicians got done with it, these objectives...


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[Assistant] I really don't have anything to do with carrying capacity or herd size or health or anything. So when you see these ones that say, oh, they're way over objective,


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[Assistant] Uh, a big part of this is weather related. Because of, here's the other good part about Montana is you get six weeks of archery. All you gotta do is buy your archery


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[Assistant] So, a little background of that. In 1999, I think it was, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks said,


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[Assistant] And you tell the people who are on that committee,


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[Assistant] And then we had, we still have a seven year wait for Moose Goat and Sheep. And I said we should have a wait period for


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[Assistant] And I'm sure a lot of other states are similar, and right now there's a bill in Wyoming to put their residents on a, because right now non-residents are on a point system in Wyoming, but residents aren't.


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[Assistant] It first started out with uh, moose goat and sheep. And then they said, all right, it's working. Okay, let's make it for elk, deer and antelope. Well.


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[Assistant] All about, I don't know, 10, 12 years later, the old guys are like,


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[Assistant] I still haven't drawn. Right. So let's square these points. Give me a better chance.


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[Assistant] No, and we've seen that in Montana, so not only did the legislature decide to square the points, about four years ago, and I call this the gray-haired pissed-off club, uh, and these bunch of pissed-off gray-haired guys show up at the legislature with even a better idea.


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[Assistant] Be careful about all these point schemes in every state. They're ever-changing. What you thought you bought today might not be what you are buying five or ten or twenty years from now. And very seldom do these point...


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[Assistant] Rules or ideas change to benefit younger hunters.


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[Assistant] Putting more elk or more deer or more sheep or whatever on the mountain. Or a lot of people quit hunting, which we don't want that either.


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[Assistant] If that works for him, as a non-resident, that's an expensive place to be rolling the dice.


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[Assistant] I don't really. By numbers. Montana is number one with sixty entries.


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[Assistant] You'll see Central and Eastern Montana has


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[Assistant] Look at Arizona, what do they got going on down there?


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[Assistant] No, we won't apply as a party because I'd draw, I'd bring you down then and in the non-resident pool you'd be screwed. So, we'll apply separately.


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[Assistant] So you're gonna, I'll carry a backpack. It's gonna be a really little backpack. That's alright. I'm gonna need a crew, a bigger crew. Llamas. You two are the Sherpas and you're the camera guy. Just shut up and let me shoot. Isn't that what llamas are for? Yea. Oh, those llamas. Have you used llamas? No. Oh my gosh.


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[Assistant] Kept right on trucking. I'm not going to set up my camp up at 9,000 feet.


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[Assistant] And McShane is smart. He's like, you wait till we get in that trailer buddy and you can't run away from me. When you pulled Butch out of the trailer, he had green spit all over him from McShane just laying the pipe to him. So they're, they're fun. They're characters, but yeah, they, it will extend my backpack, my backcountry elk hunting for at least a decade. Very cool.


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[Assistant] They'll carry 90 pounds, 100 pounds on the way out. Uh, which one did we have loaded up with Bo's elk? When we took the panniers off, he had 110 pounds on for five hours.


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[Assistant] So the other thing is usually sometime May 5th through the 10th, uh, if there are any leftovers,


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[Assistant] Montana's terrible because some of them are dash 20, some of them are dash 50. And it's like, you better really pay attention. And when you get to the checkout at the end in Montana, it doesn't let you review your hunt codes. It just says purchase. And before I hit that purchase button, I really like to be able to look at those


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[Assistant] Thanks for listening. How can they follow you? How can they follow me? Well, they can follow me in all kinds of places. I, I hope that they'll go to our YouTube channel, Randy Newberg Hunter. I hope that, uh, they will possibly be on our hunt and talk forum. I hope they'll watch our stuff on our Amazon channel, which is fresh tracks.


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[Assistant] And yeaah, I'm not big into the Facebook, Twitter. I have someone who does that for me for the most part. I jump in there and my crew will do em. But Twitter is Randy Newberg-Hunter. Facebook's Randy Newberg-Hunter. Instagram's Randy Newberg-Hunter.


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[Assistant] Goal Hunt, you'll get $50 of store credit, and now you'll get a discount out at the University of Alcona.


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[Assistant] And that keyed me off to how does he know which side of a shirt the buttons are on on a women's shirt? Because at my house, I used to do the laundry. Wow. That's incredible. Hold on. We probably need to do an episode about your philosophy.


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[Assistant] This isn't like a sneak peek at one or two areas of it. You get, you get access to everything that a full membership gets you, so. The whole works, so.


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[Assistant] Yeah. So, but the podcast is sponsored by the Rocky mountain hunting calls and, uh, great calls. Obviously we use them.


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[Assistant] Uhm, as many of the listeners know by now, my father owns the company. Uhm, but that's...


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[Assistant] That's neither here nor there. I use the calls that perform the best and fortunately it aligns with that so we can still, uh, get together at Thanksgiving.


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[Assistant] You know, I'm going to be checking out other calls to make sure that I'm using the best. And so far, they've been the ones that, you know, I can rely on them. I'm comfortable with them. They make any sound that I need to. They're high quality.


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[Assistant] And beyond even hunting, it's so handy. We were just driving, we were on vacation last week up in Glacier and my wife said something to the effect of, you know, where's the road here? Do we end up up there? And I said, well, let me check and see. Just pulled it out and showed her on the OnX app.


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[Assistant] So yeaah, there's so many applications for GPS, for land ownership, for features, for trails, for roads. I mean, anything that you ever thought you could do on a GPS and way more, now you can have on your mobile device. I don't know how people survived before it.


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[Assistant] So, I'm excited. I've never hunted Roosevelt's before. And, uh, you know, David and I have, through Sitka and our relationship there.


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[Assistant] Uh, developed a really good friendship over the last 11 years and it's finally worked out. Uh, David's living over there full time and invited us to come over. So Donnie and I will be heading over and hunting Roosevelt's for the first time. And I told him, I don't want to hunt in the reprod that thick yellow jacket, yellow jacket infested reprod.


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[Assistant] We hunted that unit the best season. I mean, we hunted it hard. And we saw one bull that might have been pushing $350. And there was no way to get Tim because he went out on private land.


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[Assistant] And the third night, we called in a bull from clear across the meadow, comes in on a string to the calls. I'm looking at him the whole time and his tops are just huge. His fourths and fifths and his beams, everything's just giant.


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[Assistant] And I fortunately drew a tag in Arizona three years later. Completely different mindset, I said I don't care what it scores, if I see a bull, and going back to that first hunt,


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[Assistant] It was a beautiful bowl. There should have been no reason in the world to be disappointed with that.


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[Assistant] Just a reference. Just a reference so people understand, you know, maybe, yeaah, I can tell you the scores of the elk I've shot but I don't hunt for score, shot distances, anything comparative or quantitative just turns it into a match, a competition between other hunters.


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[Assistant] And when you're hunting for that reason, you'll never find true satisfaction and joy in hunting. No, cause you can always get topped. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] It's not necessarily the case. The elk are going to be where the elk want to be. Like you said, during that time of year, during the rut, the cows are focused on food, the bulls are focused on the cows, so you've just got to find the feed sources that are most readily available and sometimes the back country isn't the place. Isn't it? But that might be where they go to winter.


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[Assistant] You against the best trad hunter out there and saying it's not effective. We're saying you with the compound in your hand are going to be a more effective hunter than you with a traditional bow in your hand.


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[Assistant] For Oregon Roosevelt elk, first week of hunting season. Both? You'll have both?


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[Assistant] Two different things, difference between Roosevelt and Rocky, and then difference between traditional and compound.


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[Assistant] I mean, obviously we know the, on the surface, the differences, the challenge differences, but you said you're shooting both each day. I couldn't imagine the differences in form, the differences in release and execution. I have a hard enough time just with the compound, keeping all those things straight. If I throw in another


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[Assistant] I, where were we with it? Ah, Missoula, we were at, uh, BHA. Was it BHA?


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[Assistant] Failing, you're filling a tag really in hunting. And in business, yeaah, it's the same every day you aren't retiring.


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[Assistant] If you're working hard, and you're changing and learning from your mistakes, you're going to hit one. And every time you miss, your odds of hitting it go up. As we say that all the time, elk hunting. You know, we mess up a setup, we mess up a setup, we mess up a setup.


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[Assistant] The odds are going in our favor every time that happens and we just have to stick after it until it actually hits.


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[Assistant] You know, you have to tell a story, you have to rhyme, you have to do all these things, and at that point they weren't. And to watch the evolution of that, it's been step by step. It wasn't one day he woke up and hit a home run. It was work, work, work, work, work. And honestly, he released his album, what, uh, three months ago? April, yeaah. April.


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[Assistant] I've listened to because it's so heartfelt, the storytelling is so phenomenal, the artist he had, you know, supporting him from musicians to other backup singers and everything, everything just came together and


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[Assistant] Gotcha. Alright. You know, I've, uh, Idaho, same thing. We've got open range and there's definitely cattle in elk country. A lot of it. You get into the back country and there's not as much, but.


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[Assistant] They could, but with that open range, those cattle are moving, they're looking for the food. There's enough feed there that they aren't competing in a way that it displaces them. I will say there are huge herds of sheep.


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[Assistant] So Dave is playing here at the Total Archery Challenge tonight and excited to listen to him live again. You gonna get up and sing?


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[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


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[Assistant] One, two, three. Welcome to Muay Thai Bones.


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[Assistant] Uh, so welcome to Muay Thai Bones, the most in-depth, uhm, Muay Thai podcast in the world.


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[Assistant] All timelines. Uhm, we try to dive into the philosophies and traditions and bigger social, uhm,


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[Assistant] More than double, working on triple, the second place, the second place holder, the most experienced Western fighter in Thailand ever. Uhm, and I'm her husband Kevin, who's kind of the sidekick and photographer.


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[Assistant] We've been hearing you guys asking, like almost really begging for another Muay Thai Bones, uh, episode. There's a guy that follows me on Instagram that messages me and says he listens to his son, I think.


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[Assistant] In the car or something. Uh, and he's like, this is my favorite thing you guys do. So.


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[Assistant] We're trying to get these podcasts out. Life has been really arduous. Uhm, one of the bigger tests of our, uh, time in Thailand this last year, people are going through very difficult things in COVID, so they don't, we don't have it harder than other people.


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[Assistant] Putting a Muay Thai bones together, for some reason, takes a great focus and, uh, energy. And we're trying to manage the other things, the Muay Thai library, Sylvie's training, and everything else, right? So, you're very quiet on that.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and, uh, not only has Sylvie fought more than literally probably anyone on the planet over the last five years, and produced more documentary, uh, combat, sport, uh,


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[Assistant] At the same time. It'd be one if you, one thing if you had this historic fight career and then you retired and then you had this historic documentary career but she actually has had them at the same time both of them unparalleled and that regimen


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[Assistant] of fights, train, uh, shoot, uh, content was locked in in a stabilizing way. It was like a Jenga puzzle. And so when you start pulling things out, it's very hard to reassemble what you want to do.


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[Assistant] And it doesn't look like that way that has been is going to be the case for at least a year or more. So uhm, it's been difficult, but we wanted to get an episode out. There's great things to talk about.


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[Assistant] And if you're new to the Muay Thai bones, we go take a deep dive on a topic and then


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[Assistant] 30 minutes later, change up usually on a totally different topic. So if you're not into what we're talking about now, we might talk about something completely different in 30 minutes. Sound good? We need to actually talk about what we're gonna do first.


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[Assistant] I have them, I have them a little bit in my mind. We looked at them yesterday. Uh, some of the, uhm, ideas for a podcast, uh, subject. And if you want, uhm, shoot us a message on social media if you have a topic that you'd like to have us covered. Uh, have us covered.


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[Assistant] And I just, I don't, I had this impulse when I was starting, we were starting shooting this. I'm like...


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[Assistant] You watch other podcasts or what not and they're like, be sure to follow us and write a review and give five stars on whatever. Don't do any of that.


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[Assistant] Don't do any of that. We want the Muay Thai bones to remain small and personal. Like in the beginning, we did three hour podcasts on purpose, didn't time stamp them.


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[Assistant] That's what I want, like having not shot a, uhm, a Moitai Bones. Oh, and if, if you're a patron, you can get the audio version. If you're watching us on YouTube, it's free for everybody. All our Moitai Bones are like that. You can get the audio version for a dollar being a dollar patron and get also some of the great Moitai library. But I want this podcast to be just us together.


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[Assistant] It's like a talking journey or something. At least that is for me.


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[Assistant] No, I want you to, I don't want people diving in for five minutes and get a like cool thought or something.


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[Assistant] And so this goes to my, though I think would be a great first topic, which is, uh, Celeste? What's her last name?


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[Assistant] Handsome. Female fighter, uh, female fighter in Phuket.


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[Assistant] Yeah, who's fought some very big tough fighters. Man, she took on a patchy job.


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[Assistant] Muay Thai fight. Muay Thai fight. And Peggy Jha is the best female Muay Thai fighter in the world, I would say. And uhm, she's taken on other good fighters. She had a comment about, I think it was about six months ago,


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[Assistant] A very interesting idea, where the Golden Age, if you don't know, is considered like late 1980s, of Muay Thai, male Muay Thai, but Muay Thai, is late 80s, when uh, diesel lines and saumard were made from any other stomping grounds.


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[Assistant] So, 1982, early 80s, all the way through to early 90s.


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[Assistant] The level of Muay Thai was just really incredible and beautiful, and it's not replicable, really. The, the sport has, money's fallen out of the sport, there's far fewer people in the sport, there's good fighters, there's good fights.


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[Assistant] We're far from the golden age of Muay Thai. The uhm, but her point, her idea was we're in the golden age of female fighting.


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[Assistant] There's a very interesting idea as a fighter. First of all,


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[Assistant] For women, female fighters to think of themselves in a historical context. To think in terms of the female fighters who fought before you.


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[Assistant] And also, if you're in the Golden Age, that means the Fetermil Fighters will fight after you.


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[Assistant] And I thought this was just a very, it's not a thought that would have, uhm,


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[Assistant] Something that would have been said 10 years ago, when there were very tough western fighters fighting in Thailand.


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[Assistant] But they, I think female fighters at the time felt like they were, uhm, kind of breaking ground.


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[Assistant] Yes, there was a thread of people talking about Thai female fighters as if they're just like rice girls or...


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[Assistant] Bar girls or whatever, and even still, we get European comments who still have this prejudiced idea about the Thai female fighter. But, also that being said, there were female fighters fighting in IFMA who were very, very strong and respected.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but you were going back in time.


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[Assistant] No, I was saying 10 years ago somebody would not have made such a statement because they didn't think of female Muay Thai in a historic context of what had come before them and what will come after them.


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[Assistant] That was really interesting. We spent a lot of time talking about the history of Muay Muay Thai, and we talk about the Golden Age, the Silver Age that came before it, and then the kind of decline. Like, we see, we've spent a lot of time sharing the idea that Muay Muay Thai needs to be seen on a historical spectrum, right?


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[Assistant] And it was very cool for Celeste to take that idea and apply it to female Muay Thai and I'm just saying the conversation about Muay Thai at the time


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[Assistant] Female Muay Thai, people wouldn't even have thought of this idea, that there could be a golden age of female Muay Thai.


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[Assistant] And so, what's kind of cool about this


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[Assistant] Is one, the questions even being asked shows that there's great progress. Like,


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[Assistant] Alright, like when you first started coming to Thailand, we made a tremendous effort to try to document the females, female fighters who came before you.


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[Assistant] We celebrated Kaylee Reese who had a great achievement right before you.


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[Assistant] We're pioneers of the sport, and we, and also Sylvie Charbonneau, who made what you're doing even imaginable, uhm, we wanted to document the history before, and this is not how, uhm, female fighters


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[Assistant] Western female fighters talked at all at the time when we came.


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[Assistant] There was no sense of giving credit to people who were before you.


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[Assistant] Commitment to that, to telling these other stories. The Rongsit story of the female fighters at Rongsit Stadium.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, totally. There were no fights from then, almost none of them documented. Uh, so we should also, many times the women that came at this time, came to Thailand were like, kind of, I'm going on a personal journey.


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[Assistant] I found myself in a gym training against Thai boys, and this is just like going to the moon. And there was no sense of like, Sylvia Charbonneau who fought 50 career fights at the time, and just for us it was a surreal number. Uh, up in Atlanta, she would check her email like once a week or


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[Assistant] But, but at no time was she like, like her story was not known.


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[Assistant] It's just that the media connectivity is sharing the story now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like there's like, like, uh, people are told or it is, um, imitatively implied that you should put up pad work and what not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in a certain regard, the whole, like, rising tide of social media has, like, exposed more stories, shown more fights, but they're still a kind of, like, uh, seclusive... not seclusive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, seclusive reality of being a female fighter in Thailand that does not bode well for history.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a weird way. So this is just us talking about the idea that even telling a history of female fighters


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even the idea of starting a female history of female fighters is a new thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Changes have occurred in the sport and the way we talk about Muay Thai where we can start thinking about female fighting on a timeline.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And right there, that's a huge thing because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a Thai female fighter who supposedly was kind of unbeatable, the best female fighter in Thailand, Dow Por Sook, from that time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can see almost nothing of her, and that's a TIE fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sinking into the idea is that even telling a timeline story of female fighters is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] New. And I think a lot of that credit actually goes to you. You've been a historic female fighter and you've put yourself and your story and the story of others out there like no one else. Like a fucking supernova. And I think...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It has budged the needle on what can be shared, what should be shared about oneself and also about the sport.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And introducing the idea of celebrating Thai female fighters and appreciating their incredible skill. Fighting that prejudice that was pretty rampant around the world and still is in some areas. Like some western coaches had said some pretty awful things about Thai female fighters like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Painfully, honestly racist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of what I want to say about this Golden Age idea is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Thai female fighters are born and raised in the mother's milk of Muay Thai culture. They are the best fighters in the world. They do not always have career arcs that bring the most out of their potential. Matter of fact, never. They just don't have the arc.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To maximize the potential like male Thai fighters. But they're, they're the fluent speakers of Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yes, Westerners can train up and get your combos down and beat ties and do those things. But if we are going to talk about the historical arc of Muay Thai, we have got to bring the Thai female fighter with us and raise them up above us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It just becomes, I came to Thailand and I beat a Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which a very well known western male fighter made his dream to beat a tie in a spectacular fashion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well first part of the train was Phuket. When we arrived, Phuket was the center of female Muay Thai, and most of it around Sinbi. Sinbi basically was the female, like, westerners would go there and get belts, basically. And still to this day, there are


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything has shifted. Simbi no longer at all. But, uh, there are state, uh, gyms where if you're a western female, you go there and you fight and get a world championship belt. So it started with Simbi and Phuket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, location because larger bodied female fighters could fight each other even because a large tourist thing and then it moved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The center moved to Chiang Mai. Honestly, 100% due to you and your documentation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we don't want to say that there were no tie on tie stuff in Phuket, but Chiang Mai, the dominant


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The dominant scene was female, every night there was female-female fights.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, so, what was cool about Chiang Mai is that there was this living pulse of female Muay Thai that had nothing to do with Westerners other than it was for tourists to watch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm a compartmental thinker, so I wanted to chunk this into two pieces so we don't run over important information. The first part of the question I was trying to get to is just the idea of historical female Muay Thai. Thinking about fighters in the context of those that came before them and after them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Today, the golden age of female Muay Thai. And also, why does Celeste think it is, probably?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because serious changes have been occurring in the last six months or so. I would say a year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That are radical to the opportunity of Western women and also Thai women.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And these, as you were saying before, the only time you would see Thai female fighters, or Thai, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, and everything changed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With the rise of entertainment Muay Thai. And if you're a listener of the Muay Thai Bones, we have railed against entertainment Muay Thai. Sylvie kind of has, unless she can't find any other fights, she will not fight on entertainment Muay Thai shows. We do not think they're good for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The long run health of Muay Thai, but one of the most interesting things is this change in female fighting opportunity would in no way happen without entertainment in Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not even close. And not only that, it wasn't anticipatable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've written, we, we, not written, we talked about, like, when we were like, oh my god, our knee's gonna be taken away from Thailand's Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, the death of Moekow. Because there were suddenly moves being made in Thailand that were out, uh, uh, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, they're banning knees because of COVID. This is no longer happening. It happened for two weeks and disappeared. But this is the thing, point we made when we talked about that. In Thailand, nothing changes, nothing changes, nothing changes. It looks like it will never ever change. And then it changes incredibly fast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It would ruin the history, the art of Muay Thai in Thailand. That didn't happen. It threatened to happen and it could still happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now opportunity for females have come out of the, uh, entertainment Muay Thai. And what's ironic about it is the, the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The dominant entertainment Muay Thai success show that, uhm, everyone imitated was Max Muay Thai. And Max Muay Thai made it an absolute principle to ban women from fighting on the show.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No women, no kids. They started with no women, no kids, and then they didn't have enough fights, so they let kids in. And it was just no women. Sylvie is one of the very few fighters that actually fought at Mac Stadium. Uhm, so, a historic thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With Meng Seng Ju, with Meng Seng Ju. And, but it's really interesting, Max Muay Thai,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Started this whole three round, windmilling, aggressive style, entertainment style, and banned women.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, what happened was, Super Champ and Matt, and uh, Hardcore,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They got into, I think, a dispute with Max, and they're like, we can just do what you're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the reason why they did that was not because they love women, but another promotion that we're not fans of won championship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of problems with the promotion. We do understand there's a lot of good with the promotion, but the way that one championship grew and promoted female fighters, starting with Stamp,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? At Fairtex. They basically, uh, hyped the living daylights out of Stamp and her opponents and made female fighters the stars of cards. So...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly, and one championship obviously is trying to steal the fire of the UFC. So all of this goes back to Ronda Rousey and the other queens that followed Ronda Rousey, although Ronda Rousey just fucking blew the lid off the whole thing. But, so you get this lineage of kind of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kind of has become like the second tier of that. And what it showed was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, there are a couple of things. One is, female fights can be the most exciting fight on the card, just like at times in the UFC they are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but we're also biased too. But yeah, to the average viewer, the female fight might be the best fight on the card. But not only that, building the brand of promotion around a Thai female fighter can be really lucrative.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, and have a hundred, two hundred fights. Uhm, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is my beginning of my answer to Celesta. This is the Golden Age. This is not the Golden Age of female Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is the silver age of female Muay Thai. The, the media context.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] of female opportunity and the imitative, uh, promotional model of UFC one championship then imitating


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The UFC, and then Super Champ imitating Max, but ditching Max's banning of women, which was so ridiculous. I still roll my eyes on that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And grafting onto one. All these kinds of like, non-traditional...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Muay Thai's, uh, entertainment structures have promoted, have created a context for great female fighting. But we do not have great female fighting yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At least in my opinion. The Golden Age is the great female fighting. And a lot of what the current context is about...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is the female, Thai female fighters are actually, like you're saying, they're older experienced fighters from a different age, a different time. A lot of these fighters don't even really train.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but Thai fight is not the heartbeat of Muay Thai. This is the heartbeat, this is the heartbeat of female opportunity right now. And so, the Thai female fighters...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] are kind of like being harvested from the past, in which they didn't have a lot of shine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you can't have a golden age until you have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're designed, they were designed on the Max model.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To give Westerners the advantage in scoring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the scoring, they took out all the things that the Thais are the best at. They leveled the playing field, and so now you get good matchups between Thai female fighters and Western female fighters because the Thais are not even allowed to fight in the way that they're actually the most skilled at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just so you understand if you don't follow us, we would just a broad brush it. In Thai traditional scoring, once you have the lead, you retreat and you defend the lead. It's like, you, once you take the ground in military parlance, you build a castle. Right? And now you own the land.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you retreat in these, in these action oriented new forms of scoring, you, you will lose. When Max first came out, they literally wrote in the rules in Thai for the Thais. If you go backwards, you will lose. Like as an actual rule. And look,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Much good has come of this. I think also much dangerous bad too. And we, it's good to track both of these. But one of the things that has happened is the main opportunities for these Thai female fighters are these exciting, uh, chan shows, but that are geared so that Westerners can win or compete at a very high level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, western style. And many of them can't do it. Some of them...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Train for it and try. Like, there's a great, uhm, Thai female fighter, Saifah, who's now- no. What's her name?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Knee fighter, very experienced, but at the time was not training a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Her coach, I think it was her boyfriend at the time, told her to just spam that right hand, throw that right hand, something she does not do, not many Thai female fighters do, and she adapted to super champion a couple of fights with a kind of like, taking on a style that was the western style, and uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Fairtex, for instance, had, uh, with Stamp and others, uhm, have had, uhm, great success just creating this spamming right hand, because punches score very highly in, uh, these kinds of promotions, and they don't score highly in Thai, in Muay Thai traditional scoring. So, Thais have had to adopt, adapt to it. So, I guess, the, the point is, okay,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the things, one of the things that developed out of this was Thai female fighters kind of had become point fighters. So they were very good at winning in the Thai style. Why are you looking at me like you...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they became point fighters, and they dominated in the scoring columns, and they learned how to manage rounds. And some of it is very high art. Tanan Chinook is a great example of a point fighter who is just artful. But Loma was a point fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] L-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, it's a branch of Muay Thai that they had mastered. And in the large part, these entertainment shows enforcing these Thai female fighters to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not go backwards, to clash, to brawl, to throw combinations over and over and over and over again. Helps, help develop female Tai fighting. Because it was a hole, it honestly was a hole in them. Even though they were very good in the Tai, in the traditional style, it was a hole in their fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of them were mostly kickers because kicks score very highly. And so the entertainment shows actually kind of like grew the skill level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's the first thing, so that's a good thing about the whole thing, but you still


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Presently have on these shows, uh, rule sets skewed towards Westerners.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you don't have the new talent, the new blood of Thai female fighters that are the next wave of great fighters. And you might not get that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, that is interesting there. She's speaking to a corrupt promotion that just started. We'll see if it even, if it collapses or not. Covid crushed it. Uhm, but that's mostly, that's so far only ties on tie national kind of concept of weights and rankings and belts. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's the possibility of growing Thai female fighting in the, in the Thai tradition, also running parallel to these, uh, entertainment shows. So, this is, this is the thing. It's like, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In order for it to be the golden age, you literally need to have, like, five pet she jaws.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She's already at the age where Thai fighter, Thai female fighters would already start retiring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, and that's one reason why she's kind of an interesting fighter now, is that many Thai female fighters don't really have hands and head defense, and can fight in that kind of aggressive kind of chaung way, and stay in the pocket, and she can, because she was on the net, the boxing team for like four years or something like that, and fought internationally. So I guess, in talking about the age of female fighting, I'm always looking at the processes that exist, that are creating the great fighters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] South Sing was created, or Ji-Ja was created, or Dong-Kham-Fah was created. Honestly, in the sidebat scene,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not through big promotions and organizations awarding belts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And creating rankings. It's in the betting side bet scene of Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's historically where the great talents of Thai female fighting have come. And you just get a handful of gems that come through. The question is, at this time in female fighting,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Almost all the top fighters are old of that. They were created ten years ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are the processes in place right now that are just about to release a grape?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Her tricky little manager pretended like she was nobody to Sylvie, lied about her weight, and this manager uses Sylvie as like the gateway drug to fighting westerners. He like brings these monsters out of the provinces, lies about them, and then he's like, don't worry, beginner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, uh, Sylvie sometimes beats them. She beat Pornpon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's her name? Wonder Girl. Wonder Girl. But we're saying that the provincial sidebat world, which traditionally has produced these like five or six gems, it produced loma, it produced loma knee, this sidebat world only produces four or five.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we don't even know if it's producing them anymore. Because the ones that have bubbled up...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Honestly couldn't take the wave of western size and strength.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? And so for this to be the golden age, it can't be the golden age because the golden age was about Thailand in the male golden age was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The strength of Muay Thai in Thailand provincially in the like 1,000 gyms across the country was just bubbling up with talent where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just nobody fighters like Liu Kunpon could come in and become a two-time stadium champion. Like, just the talent was bubbling up in Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And instead, what we have is a great hype promotional setup that has favored Muay Thai, female fighting, and has even led to Lumpini now letting females, creating cards where females, it hasn't happened yet, but it seems like it's really gonna happen like in this next month, that this next, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Women are now able to step into and fight in the Lumpini ring, which was something that was, you made a goal of yours to win the Lumpini belt like four years ago or something, three, four years ago, and at the time it was literally like just pick an absolutely impossible thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, let's put it this way. Four, can you check the tongue?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the things that you've talked about is in order for women to have fought, to fight at Lampini Stadium, what Lampini Stadium is and means had to radically change. And so even though this is a huge historic


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Signal, that type, that female fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is being seen in a very, very different way in Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So much of what Lumpini was had to be altered by history. And it was altered before this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's been, since it literally moved from the old location when it was a different stadium, they kept the name, they kept the traditions and everything else, but everything has been morphing. So Thailand, the pressures of entertainment Muay Thai have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really changed Thailand's Muay Thai, not always for the better, but part of that was opening the door to female fighters. And notably, at least at the time of this filming and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Conversation. The female fights on the card.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On that card, most of the fights are three round fights.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're, so you're really having a very different kind of promotion happen at Lampini Stadium, which includes the doorway for female fighters. And for us, it means a fucking lot that it's two female Thai fighters fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll see how things develop, but I'm a little, my concern about whether this is the Golden Age. I think it's the Silver Age because it's creating these opportunities and these fights and situations. But the talent level, we have to find ways of growing the talent and the skill level of the Thai female fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's all on the back of the Thai female fighter. We have to stop being like, I came to Thailand and I beat a Thai. Or I won a belt against a Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's very true and they're creating relationships and connections with Thai female fighters and Thai female fighters are more present on social media so we feel more connected, you know, their names, uhm, their Instagrams.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There still are people commenting on Sylvie's like 268 fights, tend to be Europeans, but like fighting bar girls, like literally, you are 15, 20 years back in time, dude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is a vein of talent and culture in this, uh, country. And I'm like, we have to actively


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In these promotions, these Thai female fighters are fighting against their own rule set.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're doing things, I don't know if people have eyes for this, but they're doing things, one, they're very uncomfortable doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All their instincts are telling them once they have the lead, retreat, check, block.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It would be like you had a boxing competition, a boxing ruleset where you're like, you can't block punches. It's only a punch, but do not ever block a punch. You block, you lose. You block, you lose.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just want everyone to appreciate just how, like, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How far these Thai female fighters are stretching themselves. The Western fighters are fighting in a comfort zone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, my hat, Sylvie Chemical X hat, uhm, I honestly wear this everywhere I go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can get these on, uh, Sylvie's, in Sylvie's store. All the, all the earned profits go to the Crews and Legends. We don't make any money on it. Uhm, but it's great to, if you like, uhm, supporting Sylvie, these hats in two colors are available. And I'm wearing Sylvie's, uh, Sadnock Line cow shirt, Miss Gangster knee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, this is the weird thing. I actually wear this stuff every single day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's either, it's either the Sao Nang Kling, like your, your Muay Thai stuff, or it's Kara Haat shirt, or the Yod Kumpong shirt. Yep. These are really comfortable t-shirts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, I honestly am not like, sporting the merch. They're like-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, we're switching gears. Uh, that was quite a little bit of a rant, but it's like, the story of female fighting is kind of like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's right. That is, you are witch annoy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh baby, you are so historic and so beautiful. It feels like people don't even fully understand, but it's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, lead the way on this topic. We're switching gears. No more about the history of female Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But don't look at me crazy, this is a podcast, like, I'm not, you feel like in sparring in the past you would-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So should you have been like enough, I'm not gonna do this anymore? Like what would, what would have been the appropriate?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If he got, if he got angry, like, if he like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm just saying there's no rule for knowing which it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's very difficult because you basically have to feel what is the center line on which you want to walk and when are you going too far in either direction.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Many, for many years, even though the den thing was a fucking difficult thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What you did for eight years in Thailand was you just fucking threw yourself into a gym, sometimes more than one gym, and you just hooked yourself to the plow and pulled the plow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, protecting yourself, not protecting yourself wasn't even a question much of the time. There were times when a sparring thing would get out of control or something, you had to make decisions about, I know you were disappointed about one sparring, like, mock fight, that you were like, I did not respond well to that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, everybody knows they would have a fight. They would literally have a fight, which is sparring, padded sparring, but it's pretty hard and people are cheering as if they're in a fight. They're gambling. They're pretending that it's like, it has all the things of a fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, when you're in a fight, generally you're, you're just like, you have a thickness of hide. Because you're able, you're allowed to do whatever it takes to win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Amy Davis is a historic female muay thai fighter, American 105 pound fighter who was one of your first inspirations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I'm kind of interested in talking about a little bit is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm not sure how many other people will appreciate this, but as a physically small female, she's literally, if she was an ideal, her ideal fight weight is like 97 pounds. As a physically small female,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lessons of sparring that then becomes like out of control, which is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Inspiring, you learn how to regain control of the situation by imposing yourself physically on someone. So if someone's being a dick, you rip off


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two huge body punches, and they stop being a dick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You don't have that ability. Physical ability.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sylvie, against that guy that you were boxing with, you could not have just been like, oh, you're being a dick to me, you're going on the ground.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The dimension of what fighting is, is about physically imposing dominance over someone who's trying to impose it on you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And part of the problem, the difficulty is as a physically small, you're just fucking physically small, and so many of the people you train against are 65 kilos, like, wayyyy. It's not like you're training them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like way out of things. And so the only way to control the situation sometimes is not as a fighter, but as a human being and saying words. And so you run this, this, uh, this kind of dichotomy where you're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or the skill set to just fucking dominate this huge size disparity. And so you either have to stay in the game and tough it out and learn how to take punishment, which fucking sucks, or...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's very difficult because not a normal...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's say a man sparring another man within 10 pounds of each other. They don't ever have to stop being a fighter to defend themselves. And I think it's a very important part.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A very important thing for women to be aware of because they have to make these choices sometimes. You cannot just go take beatings.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not good for you. You learn submission in a weird way. Or you learn, like, brawly, humorous anger in response. Like, it's not the thing of what Muay Thai is. And some, particularly small-bodied female fighters have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's almost like you keep missing the line, but you have to miss it too far on this side and then miss it too far on that side. You're never really right at the line. And you have to create standards for yourself. Like I think when you, when you pulled out of that dick sparring and like, this isn't good for me, you had responding to a standard you had set for yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Women are often drawn to the fighting arts who've been victimized, who've been fucking physically abused or, uh, violated in some way. And so,


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[Assistant] Enduring the fucking sparring or the relentless pad work or endless things on the bag is a way of like, hardening oneself in areas that they were vulnerable maybe, and also kind of like, masochistically punishing themselves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the evolutions that you've had is that you fucking like change yourself to the fucking plow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a way to like, alchemize a lot of personal pain and vulnerability.


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[Assistant] And now because COVID changed fucking all the circumstances, there's no plow to harness yourself to, and you have to make choices about how you're gonna train, who you're gonna train with, and is it good for me or not. And I feel like you're evolving from this, like, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if it's okay to bring it up, I noted there's things that you can evolve as a smaller fighter like your pull away on being attacked and you roll to the right side and you basically expose yourself to attack, but because you're small,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Attack stop. And as a female fighter, you can learn to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Use your smallness or your femininity to control violence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is this incredible, I'll never forget, we've talked about it in the past, there was this incredible moment, there were two moments in the, in the Gina Carano cyborg fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where, uh, there were two moments, one is Gina Carano is like, mounted on Cyborg, about to rain on, rain down punches, and she just freaks out and gets up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She just was not comfortable there.


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[Assistant] Comfortable there, she probably could have ended the fight. I don't know if in her head there was like, don't go to the ground with cyborg or something, but she was mounted and she felt something and she was like, what?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reese was like, get up. She could have maybe finished the fight there. Fight got up. And then Cyborg...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Punched her, uhm, by my recollection, to the cage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I could feel that Gina Carano, and this is not a chrism, and this is very early in the-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Evolution of female mma. But I could feel that in her training, she's used to taking three or four punches, coming at her, defending herself, and then stopping.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The person stops but because she signals in some small way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Stop. Like, it could be a dropping of the hands. I notice that you have a roll to the right. That these little signals, especially when you train with somebody over and over and over again,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How you choose to stop in training becomes very habitual and, and unconscious. And I'm like, and I could see in that fight, Cyborg does not do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, it's not just our trainers, it's the weird, unconscious language between yourself and your trainer, where you signal, okay, I learned my lesson, we start over. Let's start over. And it's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a trainer's fault because the trainer has to see that, recognize it, and then train it out. That's ideally what they're supposed to do, but sometimes it's just like you feel like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just want my fighter to take three punch combination and then that's good. But that's not real. And I could feel from Cyborg the way she was fighting in that fight. She's used to fucking, there are no outs, there are no exits. But it's fucking complicated because...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I said, the female fighter sometimes does not have the ability to fight their way out of a bad position and impose themselves on somebody to rip a hook and put somebody on the ground and be like, fuck you, you're getting out of line. They have to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The better is to just be like, stop, this isn't working. Use your language and your words. Not good are these like little secret signs of let's start over. Because those become ingrained and then an opponent doesn't, they're safe words. And then the opponent goes, I don't notice your safe word.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hi, there's something very beautiful about this because, are you checking the time?


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[Assistant] Like how do you call yourself in your own bullshit without being fucking harsh against yourself? Like you don't want to build a fucking like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, they're just throwing the right kick for me, keeping it simple. I'm gonna work


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[Assistant] It's very hard to do this for yourself because ideally the dream is that a coach, a very experienced coach, sees when you're defending your weakness and sees when you're defending yourself and kind of like modulates your, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You become your own coach at a certain point, even though you're listening to your coach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, uh, switching up topics. This is about fighting in Thailand for reels.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sylvie has expressed probably more than one time that when she goes fighting, uh, on the circuit and in various locations, she's a rare fighter of Westerners in Thailand in that she's developed a network of connections where she books her own fights.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She doesn't have a gym, uh, booking her fights, managing career, finding favorable matchups, and the big reason why we do not have gyms molding her career is that the general shape of molded careers for ties and for westerners is, does not lead


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She doesn't want to win a world title belt. She doesn't want to, uh, get to the point where her gym is like, no one can fight her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and basically fight less and less and kind of be the king of the hill. She wants to reach for a Muay Thai as a female fighter that just does not exist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so we have to kind of jerry-rig a process of fighting that will allow her to experience enough fights, literally hundreds and hundreds, uhm, to be, to reach for a moi that just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is no process for and a large part of this has been removing ourselves from the gym promoter dynamics that define almost every other female fighter in Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The result of this is she has a huge network of promoters and people that want her on her cards and she books her own cards and we travel all over the country.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To stadiums we've never seen before, to sometimes promoters we've never dealt with before.


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[Assistant] Is that in these fights at times, she just does not listen to her corner. And the obvious reason why she doesn't listen to her corner is they don't know who the hell she is. Like they look at her, she's a small little fighter, she tells them she's the only cow fighter, but nobody fucking understands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very often we go to these, uh, setups and the promoter has given us a corner and, honest to God, these are just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very unusual fight situations, and Sylvie fights like 80% of her fights this way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Stating that she does not listen to her corner in many of these circumstances and will go into why she doesn't listen to her corner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is not really about the complaint of experts. It's about...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Normal Westerners, even very experienced Westerners experience. She is like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pioneer type word is way out there. And there probably will never be another Sylvie because the perfect swarm of opportunities that led to her, uhm, being able to book her own fights evolved over many years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By our own choices, I don't think you could purposefully do what you did.


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[Assistant] Totally, and I think it's also really important to say is like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In normal, I'm gonna say it's uhm, adventure tourism Muay Thai, where you come to Thailand, you lock into a gym, you listen to your crews in training, your crews take you to fight, listen to your coroner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's part of also the fabric of culture of respect. It's the way of fighting in line with gambling. It's how gyms work. It's how gyms work. We're, somebody's not telling people


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do what I do, although she is historically reporting what she does because it's something that's never been done.


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[Assistant] And so I want to talk a little bit about this, like, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why don't you listen to your corner? When we go to these, very frequently go to these fights where corners literally don't know you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fighting to win. And gambling. There, there are, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most Muay Thai situations is there's a story being told about who's winning and very often when, uh, it's point fighting back and forth and when a fighter gets in the lead, then their corner is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You don't know what she does because nobody does what she does. We have a Hulk.


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[Assistant] But a very big other dimension of this is that corners in real Thai fights are not like corners in Western mentality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's one guy who's kind of like the corner outside the ring and he's just like tells you one small thing that might turn the fight like kick more or pull in the clinch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Blok blok blok blok. The kinds of messages that come from Thai corners and I don't know that...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Westerners that live and fight in Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And become coaches and corners even fully understand this. Thai corners give very minimal advice. Generally. Yes. Not detailed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just, this one thing could change the tide. Sometimes. But sometimes they're just like, do what you're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can lose a fight by looking at your corner. Like on a close fight in the fifth round.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you'll see this in stadium fighters all the time. If you look over to the corner, that means that you yourself doubt about who's in the lead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And judges see that. And then what the qu- If you look over to your corner and your corner says go, you are fucked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, it's locked in. There's no way to win this fight any other way than to go forward. And so, sometimes, not listening to your corner, you literally do not even look at your corner in the fifth round. And look, Sylvie's the most experienced Western fighter in the history of the sport.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Thailand, and probably ever, anywhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She has learned the shape of things that will win fights. She knows how long she can hold a fifth round on a dance off. So if you tell her to dance off


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The twenty second mark in the fifth round, it's a bad idea. It might be a great idea in the world, but it's like, she knows when she has to be able to dance off because she has a certain limit of defensive capabilities.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we also learned many times you listened to corners and fucking lost fights because it wasn't the right...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Advice for the situation given who you are. And there is another dimension of this, which is that Sylvie fights...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a very unexpected way, which is she's the underdog, size-wise, sometimes by fucking four or five weight classes, and she wins by clinch dominance. And nobody thinks that's possible. Even people who know her,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in the fight and you see the thing, you don't think that's how that fight's gonna go. And it's how you win. All the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's not a world any female fighter even lives in.


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[Assistant] There's another small dimension of this, which is going


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This incredible experience of going to a provincial fight and finding a corner among the mats.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kidfighters. And a family. Or something like that.


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[Assistant] I understand that Westerners feel like they're great corners or great coaches or whatever. These little gyms on mats, you come to a fight, there's like 15 mats.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You take any coach, any like dad, uncle coach off the mat, it's like a picnic. You have someone who understands Muay Thai better than almost any Western coach.


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[Assistant] When there's another dimension of this is where you're like, you don't listen to your corner, but you're like, actually have this amazing corner who understands the situation so well. He understands he doesn't know anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] about you other than what he's seeing and he's cheering for you and what he says is interesting and is sometimes worth listening to because he's not trying to like ego define himself as like I'm telling you how to win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, as soon as you lock on somebody and score a couple of knees, they're on the Sylvie boat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I tell Sylvie before all these fights, don't listen to your corner. Because I know Sylvie likes to please people and sometimes people can get in her ear. I'm like, Sylvie, you know how you win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't listen to your corner. We've had so much bad, educated corner advice, even from good ties and whatnot. It's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know how to win. The way you fight. And it's like...


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[Assistant] Baby, do you remember when, what's his name, I don't want to name him, told you


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[Assistant] And we lost that fight, and I was like, why are you listening to this guy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you should have done this other thing that was being told to you. I've never seen it. It just, it's 268 fights. This mentality though, this thing, you have to understand, this is way off the grid of adventure tourism. This is not...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said, he said something like, you're a fighter when you no longer have to listen to your corner. Where you solve it yourself.


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[Assistant] You solved the problem yourself, you're not reliant on your fighter, on this fucking Diesel Noy, who is in very big fucking high-bat fights.


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[Assistant] There's nothing wrong with it, but we left it for a reason. Because that puts you down a path that's not your path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They try to control you in various ways and your fate becomes locked on a rail. We left that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These other experiences of going and finding the kid, the kids and the dad on the mat have been some of the most beautiful Muay Thai experiences, at least for me, I don't know, you can say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is nothing quite like, like, okay, we're not telling you what to do, but we will tell you, there is no Muay Thai experience quite like going to a provincial fight


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where you literally have no connections. Nobody.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Advocating for you and shaping things for you. Finding a corner, like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just pure Muay Thai. It's just beautiful. And then the other weird thing is that you've had absolutely insane corners like Karahat, whose corner for you probably 15 times or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a legend of the sport. How does he corner you?


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[Assistant] It's a light touch. It's so beautiful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, have their own self-conception and they have fought ten, fifteen times in Thailand and they've been here for five years. But the attitudes they take towards coaching are very not Thai. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you get this with Pat, uh, Ferong Padmen. It's like, I don't know what they're locking onto when they're thinking about what this is a good coach or thing. Like, it's not tie. Tie is minimal conversational cornering or even coaching.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the fight is boring, boredom, not in that boring, it's like a non-event, but it's been done hundreds and hundreds of times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, like, remember when we fought, when you fought Zaza? A huge weight difference on this televised show. And literally, Karhat was like, uhm. Karhat's a great fighter, but he's also pretty late. Sometimes. And he was on the phone, and he was like, I'm coming. And it was like, 30 minutes before your fight, you hadn't even seen him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I wanna do say this, is that even though you do this like non-adventure tourism, this organza fighting, and hun- hundreds of fights like this,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is a detriment that you gotta be aware of if you ever explore this, is that you need advocates to be advocating for you within the subculture of a fight promotion if you want not to have bad judgments against you or be matched against somebody who's way bigger than you, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The benefit of the more like controlled fight matchup, my gym watches out for me, is you will find more favorable situations. You will find better matchups.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They do treat you very well. Occasionally if we run into a brand new promoter and there's no advocacy, we can...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's nothing, it's like, oh, the girl's three kilos bigger than you said she was. Something like that. Sylvie fights huge all the time, so it's not a problem. But I'm saying, for someone who's like, thinking about this in their own... Oh, it's rolling. I think you can check your messages later. Uh, okay, our, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just to sum up on what we just were talking about,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sylvie fights in this gonzo way, in this unbelievable historic way, that we're not saying anyone should


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're not telling you to do that, but we're reporting it because nobody's ever done it. And it's possible. And it's possible. And it also is about the textures of Muay Thai culture, much of what the West knows about what very often you come and you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Come to a gym in Thailand and you train hard and you fight your fights.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you fight in a certain stadium scene or in a promotion, you're on Macs or whatever it is, and you think you've seen Muay Thai for Thailand because you are very experienced in your very small world. And I'm like, this is about really off the map stuff. It's a different version of things that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so we want to share about these textures and her own personal experience as a fighter because this is all never been done before stuff.


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[Assistant] There's been no fighter in Thailand who's learning about herself as a fighter after fight 150 or fight 220. It's like there's evolutions going on as a fighter that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] just have never happened in any other fighter ever just by simple matter of experience and so many of the things she's talking about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our lessons that she learned at fight 75, or fight 125, or fight 180.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you were at Fight 75, you kind of thought you knew what's what. You were very experienced.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So many of the perspectives on Thailand Muay Thai, people feel like, I pretty much know what it is. But you haven't thought 150 times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but I'm saying, don't, we don't tell other people what to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're just sharing what we've learned and experienced.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of it is just making one's own history. And then people can take from it whatever they fucking want. But, I would say, if you have a chance to fight in the provinces,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Take it. Take it. And maybe try to do it three or four times. Even if it's a gym managed thing or something like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a different kind of Muay Thai. Honestly, the best refereed Muay Thai in Thailand is in the provinces. That's when the full rules and all the clinch and everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the betting and the bettors are up against the ring and it's just like, that's honestly the real, it's not even stadium Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At Namco Boon's funeral, uh, rest in peace.


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[Assistant] Everybody around the table, like Muay Thai reporters and legends like Puth Padnoi were talking about and they were like, there's no Muay Thai left in Thailand anymore, the real Muay Thai. And the Muay Thai guy was like, no, in Assam there is. In the provinces, there is still the real Muay Thai. But these are like old school people and are like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, okay, so thank you for being a part of episode whatever this is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We will try to make more of these because it's enjoyable to talk about and do, but for some reason they're very difficult to produce.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're watching on YouTube, you can become a patron. For a dollar you get the whole, uh, archive of, uhm, multi-library sessions on audio subscription. You can add to your subscription thing. Do you want to say anything?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the great coaches in the history of the sport is calling. Are you doing the music?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The goal is, what little you and I know about elk hunting,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well folks, we are here, this time we're in Bozeman, Montana. We are. For another episode of the Elk Talk Podcast. With Corey Jacobson. And Randy Newberg.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I think what we ought to do, because we asked people for comments, right? And we got that. I don't know if it's thousands, I got hundreds of comments. Lots of emails and messages on Instagram, yeaah. So, people said that they wanted more consumable pieces.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What would have took at least another hour, we would have, if we would have finished the last two mistakes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But before we get to that part, we better take care of the business of telling people who makes this podcast possible. And in case they weren't listening in the prior podcast, I guess we probably ought to go through the list. We said who it was presented by.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] RMEF, Rocky Mountain Oaks Foundation, title sponsor is a podcast called Help Talk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] RMEF.org, go there and become a member. Absolutely. Or a volunteer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Their mission is ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat and our hunting heritage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is almost like my social security number I was rattling off there. But the other one is, did you get your care package from Gerber yet?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. All right. So anyhow, Gerber sends me like a care package a week. I don't know if they think I'm losing knives and Lauren is like, Randy be given these away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I shouldn't have said that. People are going to think, why aren't you giving knives away? Yea, what do we have to do to get ours? I know. So anyhow, Gerber Gear makes amazing knives. I've been using them for a long time. They're Gerber Vital. They're big game vital. If you are an elk hunter, you're going to want to have those in your pack.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then the other company that is, uh, I guess you've been with them since forever. I've been with every company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well that's true, yea folks, if you see a little white dog running through here, it's not animation. We're at my house, and my wife is taking care of elderly parents, so I'm on dog detail. I have a 15 year old, completely deaf, mostly blind,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it certainly seems that way. I've got mine downstairs, but I'm not going to get my first elk hunt. I'm not going to be elk hunting until September while I leave here on the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well anyhow, Sitka sponsors this podcast, makes amazing product. Go to your local retailer, try it on, check it out, buy some, and understand it's going to last you for years and years and years and years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's a, I mean, it's got harvest statistics, it's got moisture patterns, it's got


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Back, roll back the curtains. It's the full, yeaah. Everything there. And to get that folks, you want to go to GoHunt.com


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With a forward slash elk talk, one word elk talk and sign up for your 30 day free trial. And I can assure you, you're going to get a lot of value out of your 30 days.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because it's free. It's kind of like, that's almost like cheating. That's like getting, uh, what do they call it? A gateway drug. Letting you touch it and use it. After you use it, you're like, sign me up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we could spend this podcast talking about, but go to gohunt.com forward slash out talk and sign up. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I see you brought your pouch of stuff here. Uh, one of the other partners we have is Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls. Yes. And in there, is this like the Corey Jacobson Skunk Works lab here? Like the... These are the calls that I always keep protected.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's, that's pretty, that's a good way to say it. If I can remember, it's kind of like- I said we. Well, I know, but it's like the old Geico commercial. So simple, even a caveman could do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, if Randy can do it, anyone can do it. So, and last, we certainly don't want to forget about them is Onyx. Onyxmaps.com is the website you would go to. We were just talking about it before we turned on the mic about how we use, well, right here folks, this one. Oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you go to Elk Foundation headquarters, you see that? You get that little team elk thing that keeps your phone from sliding around, huh? See that? It's more than a sticker. It's more than a sticker, it's rubber. When you take a sharp corner, your phone doesn't slide across the dash of your truck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've seen your truck after hunting season. Anyhow, I'm the app guy now, uh, and I would suggest everybody go out, get the app.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Use it, you'll have it on your smartphone, get it on your laptop, or your desktop, laptop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you, uh, are into what we are, I think they are, if they're listening, Public Land Outcutting, you need the Onyx system. And they can save 20% if they go to onyxmaps.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ilk time. Ilk time. There you go. So there you have it, folks. 20% savings at...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On X, 15% savings at Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls, 30 day free trial like Go Hunt. I mean, we just gave them more than their money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, let's get to your two mistakes. Two mistakes. The two remaining mistakes that we didn't get to on the last podcast were setups.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And calling mistakes. Yep. Which do you prefer to go to first?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll tell you, this was Randy Newberg when he first started archery alchonic. I had heron elk. I'd get 200 yards away and I think I was going to call him in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And every once in a while I'd stumble into one at 50 yards and I'd think, well I'm gonna call him in. And I'd get behind the tree. Like, oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, kind of hide and seek like when you're a kid. I mean, I'm thinking about all the things I was doing wrong. It's like I wrote the book on how to do bad setup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when you do it, I mean, you've done it so many times. What's going through your mind when you're at that point where, all right, we got to get set up because this bowl is coming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is there, is there something that instantly is the very first thing that goes through your mind?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Assumptions of knowledge there. Yeaah. When I look at the landscape,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm, uh, I don't even, I'm not good enough to know, do I eliminate this or, cause you said, okay, you eliminate this open spot, you eliminate this. That's just knowing the habits of Elk that allows you to quickly make that assessment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe it's, uh, like you were saying, there's a deep spot with some alders or maybe it's just, he's comfortable because 80 yards over there, there's two little fingers that come off the ridge. You're on one and he's on the other. And is he, do you have to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let him say, alright, I'm comfortable on this little finger ridge and you just have to move to some place where he's comfortable moving off there. Because I've had many times like that where he's just not gonna move. You're not gonna get him to leave that little ridge, drop down in a 30 foot depression and come up the other ridge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As you're talking, my mind is running through about 100 scenarios I've screwed up and can't get them to come from 90 or 80 or 100 or whatever. There's always a reason.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So a situation like that, I know for sure I can't go around because the wind's gonna mess me up. Sometimes you just gotta back out and wait.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I'm just, I'm sure that the listeners and the viewers are raising their hand like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Side hill. Side hill and maybe then you've got a perpendicular thermal. Let's say it's in that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Huh, all these are little tidbits eh, can I take notes while you're talking here? Uh, I'm sure somebody is raising their hand saying, you know what, I hunt flatter country, I hunt eastern Montana, I hunt central Wyoming, I hunt the pinyon juniper flats of Arizona or New Mexico.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's none of these topography things of little draws or whatever. They're just out here and I can't get them to come through the junipers. They stand back there a hundred yards. I can hear them raking a juniper. I can maybe hear them walking, but I can't get them to come in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Someone who rifle hunts a lot. When I'm, alright, there's a bowl over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I'm trying to be quiet, but if I got to make ground, I'm not all that quiet because I got the advantage that if he's within 300 yards, I'm going to shoot him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So other set up things as far as we're, so we're talking about the two men.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hope I am, but we better say it just because there might be people who this is their first time at it. You always, the, the caller and the shooter,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of times, I mean, we like to think, okay, we're going to draw this up on the whiteboard. Like, you know, time out in the basketball game, you're, you're the basketball coach. You draw it all up and well, this is how it's going to happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, even if you and your partner are there drawing it up in the sand, uh, uh, out on the oak hill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sometimes it doesn't go as expected. So the caller is there and the shooter goes downwind. Let's assume, let's say it's a down, downwind slope when they do the arc. But sometimes the bowl just isn't cooperating. He didn't read the plan. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a caller, are in this setup, are you doing things in your movement to try draw the ball past the shooter? Because it seems, in my experience, that