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[Assistant] I'm like, oh, does that mean we gotta pay the, the plat, the hardware company and, and, uh, the computer guy who built all this? I gotta pay him now? They're like, yeah, we got your checkbook.


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[Assistant] So I'm sorry that I get off these, you know, can you imagine what my wife has to deal with? She'll be talking about the weather and I'll bring up, you know.


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[Assistant] Kind of like on a podcast. You're talking about working out and everything else and I decide I want to pick onto the Facebook people. So, but anyhow, if you want to argue, go to Facebook. What Corey told you was a fact right there. That's not arguable on Facebook. That is a fact.


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[Assistant] You in better shape are going to have more fun on your Elcon than you not in good shape.


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[Assistant] Let me take another listener question before you and I get too far out in the weeds here. You ready? I'm ready. Alright.


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[Assistant] I have a general tag for Wyoming this year. I am limited on when I can take leave from work this year and will only be able to hunt October 11th through October 19th.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With different units having different seasons, should I scout the units that open prior to the 15th opener and then honk starting on the 15th?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or should I hunt all the units that are open through the 14th before considering moving to a unit that opens on the 15th? Wow.


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[Assistant] In other words, would you scout for four days and then hunt for five days? Or would you just hunt all nine days?


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[Assistant] Uh, but the good news is he's got a Wyoming tag and he's got a lot of options available to him because of the way Wyoming has their sheafing structures. Exactly. It's almost as liberal as Montana. Well no, in Montana we just hate elk. We hunt and shoot elk.


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[Assistant] Now this commission said, let's get serious about this killing elk stuff. So we have these things called shoulder seasons in Montana, where we've been shooting elk in Montana now for about two weeks. And people are like, what?


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[Assistant] Regulations say that the season opens September 4th archery. Oh yeaah. But in a lot of units they're already shooting cows and some bulls. Yeaah. Wow. Yeaah. Well.


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[Assistant] Then we, we start shooting them way into, I think now we're going to shoot them into March.


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[Assistant] But it used to be only on private land because we're going to shoot the ones that were creating damage.


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[Assistant] Three hundred against this idea and one shill and one outfitter got up in support of it.


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[Assistant] And so it's like 300 to two against it. And they voted four to one to allow us to now go and kill cow elk on public land in these shoulder seasons. Wow. So yeah, people are going to be saying, where did all the elk go? Are these rifle hunts? These are rifle hunts. Yeah. Wow.


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[Assistant] So, they're gonna be blaming it on wolves and grizzly bears? Well guess what, those wolves and grizzly bears are driving Ford F-150's, Silverados, and Dodge Rams.


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[Assistant] So I, I don't know, as long as there's an elk on the landscape of Montana, we have a legislature and now we have a commission that believes, you know, that's too many.


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[Assistant] So Montana's elk hunting has been declining and it's about ready to decline in a big, big way.


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[Assistant] Doesn't matter, I mean, it's been going on through multiple administrations, left and right and R and D, it doesn't matter.


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[Assistant] Isn't that what they used to do in the lagging world? Yeaah. You go chain yourself to a piece of equipment.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. Yeaah. I'll go train myself to a big pull out.


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[Assistant] So all of our elk, a smart elk would head to Idaho or Wyoming and get the hell out of Montana.


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[Assistant] I'm a new hunter and I'm in the early stages of the hunting paradigm. I don't have the experience to be picky if given an opportunity to take an out.


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[Assistant] Trust me, I'm gonna take it. That doesn't mean I don't have a target. I'm preparing my body and mind thanks to Elk101 and the University of Elk hunting.


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[Assistant] And knowing that, the thought crossed my mind that the ideal target may be more nuanced than just a mature ball.


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[Assistant] I'm considering setting my personal parameters to something like a spike or an old regressing bowl and not one of those prime age bowls of 5 to 6.


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[Assistant] Am I way overanalyzing this study? Question mark.


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[Assistant] One, the person has been out doing a lot of research and a lot of reading and trying to learn a lot about health. That's what I gathered from this.


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[Assistant] This person has been reading research, trying to learn what elk need at certain times of the year, if they're reading the studies from the Starkey forest.


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[Assistant] They are reading some really good elk information. It sounds like he's a subscriber to your University of Elk course. I wonder if he used formal quote elk talk.


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[Assistant] But I do think when it comes to what elk you want to take, don't overthink it to that degree.


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[Assistant] I'm right there with you. But I will also tell you, if all bulls are legal and there's a spike standing next to a seven or eight year old bull, I'm not gonna lie. I know where my crosshairs are going.


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[Assistant] I don't know what is wired in our systems to look at it that way, but that's how I'm wired.


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[Assistant] So me and Michael, we're heading out on our hunt. I'm coming down to Idaho to pick up some llamas on Thursday. And we're rolling out of here on Friday. We'll have camp set up Friday night.


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[Assistant] Alright, next question. Hey guys, love the podcast. Uh, I don't believe this part. Nobody does it better than the two of you. That's a line of a yes. He's kind of buttering us up here. That's right. I hear a lot of talk about how to call out.


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[Assistant] But I never seem to hear much about when to call and what call to make.


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[Assistant] Me too. I think that a lot of times. I'm sitting there with the bugle in my mouth and like


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[Assistant] Oh, I'm getting ready to bugle. Should I cow-cow? No, I'm gonna bugle. I like that. I feel better when I bugle. Well, should I do a location bugle? Should I do a, should I sound like a big old boy?


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[Assistant] Or should I sound like a wimpy little guy? I mean, I can really get myself, I'm with this guy, I can wrap myself in some pretty tight knots over what to do.


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[Assistant] That's, like, when, when I, the few times I'm able to get a bowl all wound up, I always...


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[Assistant] And, uh, that's the time when I feel like, alright, I'm really giving it every emotion.


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[Assistant] And I just try to think of it in the context you say.


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[Assistant] So, this guy says, good afternoon guys. Yep, it is afternoon because I drugged my feet long enough getting moved into my new office. Uh, question, and I don't think I've heard this discussed from anyone.


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[Assistant] I noticed that most of your hunts out there are for 5 to 7 days.


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[Assistant] My group is coming all the way from Michigan to Montana with General Tags.


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[Assistant] But is that too long in a single shot to stay out there? We plan to head to town every so often to restock, but the meat and potatoes of it are


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[Assistant] Did I tell you what happened last week in Nevada? Nope. I bought all the crew, all four of them, I bought them brand new camera sets. I mean, everybody's got their own everything because when you have four production crews, stuff would come back here and be broken.


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[Assistant] And I look to the two camera guys and say, anybody missing a GoPro this morning? I went, huh, huh, mine's in the truck.


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[Assistant] Face it, they gotta work with me as talent and some other gotta make it presentable. So that's a super hard job.


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[Assistant] But if you gave them a rubber hammer and 10 feet of logging chain, they'd have that broke into one foot segments of logging chain within a half hour. That's how talented they are at breaking stuff.


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[Assistant] So if you're really prone to break stuff and don't give a dang about it, and you just hand it off to the boss and say, hey, this guy broke today, uh, you'd make a good camera guy.


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[Assistant] What's, what's on your mind? We not, now we know it was on some of the listener's minds. You got anything that you got to share before we kick off season? Cause this podcast is going to drop. You and I are going to be out in the middle of nowhere. Yup. When, when this podcast drops.


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[Assistant] There you go. And the one guy said, well at least it wasn't one of the brand new Sony A7.


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[Assistant] I mean this is like eight days of just nothing, no, no phone, no anything.


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[Assistant] And I was getting ready to say, or do what my camera guy's doing, just drive over things, you know?


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[Assistant] I have an inreach and Marcus has a Zolio, Dale has a Zolio, Michael and I both have inreaches. I'm about ready to go to the Zolio. I'm watching how Marcus does this. It's really slick. It's, I like it better than the


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[Assistant] But if I don't, so, you know, when we're doing this hunt next week, that's gonna be on your Destination Elk series, uh, I'm gonna, I told Michael he's gonna be the first shooter.


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[Assistant] And the reason being is, in my elk unit, er, my moose unit,


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[Assistant] That's got some pretty decent elk hunting, so I'm gonna have my bow with me in September, so.


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[Assistant] It's like, ah, if I'm out here and move something and I hear some big one, I just might have to run over there and see who's, uh,


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[Assistant] He's raiding a ruckus and maybe I'll get an arrow in one man. Yeah.


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[Assistant] I, I hope, I hope he's Michael and not feeling like he's gotta be some expectation because Michael as just Michael, everybody loves him.


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[Assistant] And is, you don't have to look very far into his eyes to see how he's feeling. Whether he's really excited or disappointed with himself or, uh, it's gonna be a ton of fun. So I'm.


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[Assistant] I'm looking forward to it. It's a place I haven't hunted for 10 years. I used to hunt it just about every year and with the show and all this stuff we do, it's just been so busy. I've only hunted it once in 10 years, so.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. You're trying out some of their stuff.


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[Assistant] Archery in Wyoming opens in two days, in Montana it opens in five days. We're in it Cory. Yep. The wait is over.


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[Assistant] You guys are gonna have a big story, you're gonna have good luck, and I can't wait to hear it when you guys come back.


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[Assistant] Bigger groups of elk, uhm, you know, there's a lot more cows. The bigger bulls tend to have a pretty good group of cows at that point. Uhm, this year for example, uh, late season I think I got over there about October, first week in October at some point.


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[Assistant] You know, he, he taught me like, I remember sitting down at his house and he would show me videos of how bulls, what it takes to get bulls to actually come together and fight. And his philosophy was,


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[Assistant] And raking branches and popping sticks and raking with big sticks. That's just been real effective for me.


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[Assistant] Hunting much on the east side is just that. I want to hunt big bulls every year or just mature bulls.


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[Assistant] And my only opportunity to do that is to hunt the western side because, uh, you know, it's like a three point minimum on that side in most units. So you can chase bulls every year over there.


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[Assistant] Uh, pay to play type thing. So people would come to me and I'd kind of teach them the ropes. And I met Dallas through that. He, he was trying to learn how to fly fish. And, you know, he was, I think when I met him, the guy was about 60 years old and he was,


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[Assistant] Now he taught me so much in those years and you know, that's what I think a lot of people miss out and might get frustrated with when beginning elk hunters try to get into it is there's just such a learning curve and having a mentor, it's huge.


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[Assistant] When he picked the fight with the right bowl and he came screaming in. That was what he lived for.


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[Assistant] Yeah, from what I had seen in photos and talked to people, that was a really nice buck. So yeah, it ended up being a different buck.


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[Assistant] But I don't know how that one slipped away, but the one that I ended up getting moved into the small area where I was basically targeting that one, and that's the one I got, so.


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[Assistant] You know, use every advantage you can to get those bulls to come in. The topography in Montana, uhm, whether it's sage flats or more open ridges, uhm, you know, quakeys, aspens, you name it.


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[Assistant] But uhm, I've hunted places that do get hit a lot more that open country. And it just seems like they've been chased for a while and they just, they just know, they just know the calling. I don't know. I mean, maybe if it was uh, Corey Jacobson making the calls and they had no idea it was a human.


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[Assistant] Barry's not too far off from those same log and rows that you're talking about. And uh, you know, you get a call, but it's a lazy call. You know, it's just not a fired up bull. And you try, you know, you give it some time and hopefully they fire up and get them to stand up or something. But a lot of times they just don't.


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[Assistant] But Dallas taught me that's like, and he would, a lot of times he'd hunt just the first few hours in the morning, um, maybe up till about 10, um, which I've changed that strategy quite a bit since that. But, uh, I think most of my bulls have always come between that 10 and two range, 11 to one range. Um, so, so not everything that Dallas taught me is held true.


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[Assistant] But he gave me a, you know, a real good outline. But he would, uh, he would hear a bowl and it'd just be a lazy call, lazy, you know, like you said, just a moan or something like that.


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[Assistant] And uh, it was probably the second or maybe the third or fourth day that we went back to that same bowl and that same little drainage. And that morning, in the dark of course,


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[Assistant] And that was the day that Chad went down in there and killed that bull. And...


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[Assistant] Where I think a lot of people, uhm, make the mistake of hearing that little bugle, like a lazy bugle, and they're just going to go for it no matter what. And generally what happens is you end up pushing that bull out and you don't get another crack.


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[Assistant] I'd like to ask you a similar question. When you're out there, are you, do you get a little bit of a, like a little bit stressed out? Like you're just working so hard. It almost is like it's not fun at a certain point.


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[Assistant] For me, I can, I can attest to that. It's like, if somebody was paying attention or standing, you know, next to me during this, they'd almost think that I wasn't having fun at all.


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[Assistant] It's like a chess match. You're just, you're doing anything and everything you can to try to make that happen. And uh, you know, that's just running ridges and trying to find that one bull that day and it almost looks as if you're not having fun. But the fun comes once you put it all together and it works out.


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[Assistant] If you give yourself a really, really hard situation, like you find the biggest bull in that basin, uhm, and you kinda, to get to that bull, you're gonna have to pass, you're gonna have to avoid other bulls. That may be a little bit easier, but,


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[Assistant] The challenge you've laid out for yourself is you want that bowl by the tones that he's making. Whether it's a growl or he doesn't have tones anymore, you know, he's just a growly old bowl. That's the bowl that you want. And so yeah, I totally understand that. It's, it's a competition with yourself. And, uh, it's such an, you know, you can get so intense about it that


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[Assistant] I've got a question for you, Corey. Uhm, curious what you would say. If, like when you're going out there and you finally get that bowl that you think, oh, that's a hot bowl. I know you're probably pretty confident you're going to kill that bowl. Like how confident are you? Like how many times when you find that one bowl that's like, oh, that


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[Assistant] That's the one right there, he sounds hot. How many times would you say it works out?


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[Assistant] And that's never, it's never a guarantee when, you know, you're playing that game, but boy, it takes a lot of patience. Knowing those bucks are just out of range and all you got to do is do another 10 yards, 20 yards and you got that shot. But that's usually where things get blown up and you mess up.


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[Assistant] I'm glad you did because you, uh, you cooked those up. They were delicious. Oh man. Jackrabbits. Jackrabbits were about as good as meat can possibly be.


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[Assistant] They happen to, you know, I watched them for a long time and they had this direction they were going. And I kind of put it together where if they go...


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[Assistant] And he, uh, he ended up coming to me and got to within 15 yards and I got that shot. But, uh, it was just not the most ideal spot for spot and stock, but I really liked that cut.


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[Assistant] I think if I had to narrow it down, I'd say first and second week in October. They're still talking, they're still kind of showing themselves.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, for sure. So, uh, my wife and I run Hunt and Harvest Health. Uhm, and...


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[Assistant] Yeah, and I think, I think I didn't, I don't believe I said that, uh, I think you should do it. I think hunters would benefit from you doing the podcast and I think that's held true. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


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[Assistant] The, I wouldn't say excessive, a lot of hunters, public land, uhm,


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[Assistant] But I want to be that guy. I've heard you on many, uh, different podcasts and videos of Bugle and I've never seen you live. I want to...


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[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. To become a member, go to rmef.org.


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[Assistant] Uh, he might be here a few minutes late. He's getting interrupted along the way. And so what we're going to do, kind of like the last Q&A podcast, we uh,


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[Assistant] But, when we do these, anyone who has a question, uh, you ask, raise your hand, and there's an orange box right here, that they'll throw that to you, and whoever asks a question,


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[Assistant] Gerber's gonna give you a free Gerber Vital Knife, the same knife that we use. And then, Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls is gonna give you a free out call. So, I don't know if there are people, oh, we got the Gerber folks here. I don't know who's here from Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls, but they'll be here. And, uh, we'll make note of, uh,


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[Assistant] Whoever asks a question will repeat it back because you're going to be on our Help Talk Podcast. So don't be bashful.


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[Assistant] You know, if you got a question, the odds are our audience that listens to this podcast probably has the same question. So, uh,


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[Assistant] And since he's not here, I can tell pretty much anything I want until he gets here and then all of you will have to...


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[Assistant] Improve the amount of information that's out there for...


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[Assistant] Mostly public land, Elk hunting. And, uh,


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[Assistant] To do that, we need to know what a lot of you are thinking. And Cory will agree that neither of us are really good at elk hunting. We just get to do it a lot. Uh, you know, kinda like if you get to clean the house a lot, you're gonna be a pretty good janitor.


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[Assistant] Any question that you have, just raise your hand along the way. Oh, look right here, we already got our first question. So, we got a mic right there. Hopefully I can, hopefully I can hear it, and uh, we'll see how this goes.


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[Assistant] That's, uh, how do we end up with the first question being such a good question? And the reason I say that, it,


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[Assistant] That gets right to the core of, of learning about elk because everybody was a new elk hunter at some point. I always tell the story. It took me six years before I shot my first elk. And I thought that buying some sort of new gadget or some sort of new item was what would get me over the hump to shoot an elk.


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[Assistant] Finally, I realized I didn't know much about elk. So there's a book called Elk and Elk Ecology that I tell people. It's by Jack Ward Thomas. Uh, you can get it from the Wildlife Management Institute. It's pretty heavy reading. I mean, Jack had a PhD in all kinds of things, so it's, there's a lot there.


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[Assistant] Some of the greatest places of information that we get is from range managers for the BLM, the Forest Service, your state agency. Uh, they have done a lot of research and the good part of it is it's pretty specific to where you're probably going to be hunting.


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[Assistant] There will be so many articles there about how elk respond to hunting pressure, how elk respond to drought, how elk respond to roads, what's their preferred bedding cover, what's their preferred distance from this or that, how often do they feed in a day, how it's,


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[Assistant] But I'm an accountant, so I'm not really good at scientific stuff. I need to read the intro paragraph of what it's going to talk about. And then these scientists, I see some of them out there smiling at me.


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[Assistant] Summary conclusion might be something like, oh, in early September, the preferred forage is this grass at this elevation. That's what I really wanted to know. So.


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[Assistant] It's a lot of time invested in research and knowledge but it'll, it'll pay big, big dividends because I always tell people that what you're most interested in is where are the elk at when you have your tag?


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[Assistant] It doesn't matter where they're at in July because you don't have a tag then. You have a tag in October. And they move across the landscapes using different parts of the landscapes at different times of the year.


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[Assistant] So you're focused on where, where will they be or what need will they be satisfying during the period when I have my tag and that is where you will find them.


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[Assistant] So, those are great resources. I hate to inundate all the BLM biologists, the forest service biologists, the range cons, all those people who do that great work.


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[Assistant] I already forgot the first rule is, when you say your question, I gotta read it back. So the question was, where are other resources that I can help fill in my elk hunting knowledge? Is that? Did I paraphrase that correctly? Towards elk behaviors, yea. Alright.


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[Assistant] Maybe, maybe we can do two in a row and we'll, we'll fake it and no one will leave.


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[Assistant] So, Colby says, as a 19 year old, what can I do to have my voice heard in the effort to keep public lands in public hands? Did I say that right, Colby? Alright.


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[Assistant] Uh, don't discount the fact that you're 19. It doesn't matter if you're 19 or if you're old and grey like I am. Uh, your vote counts, your voice counts, and if there's one benefit of


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[Assistant] What I do and how many years I've been doing it is I end up being engaged in a lot of the policy. I call it policy. It's really politics, but it sounds better when you say engaged in policy. Cause as quick as you say, yeah, I'm engaged in politics, people, their eyes glaze over. No one wants to be engaged in politics.


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[Assistant] But there's a multitude of things you can do and you can do them yourself if you're not a group kind of person. You say, uh, you know, I'm really not interested in being part of this group or that group. Fine. Doing it yourself, you can do it. You can be, do it through part of a formal group. Uh.


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[Assistant] Don't underestimate the value of a well informed constituent.


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[Assistant] I asked them kind of the same question of, how do you decide whether one of these issues is worth your time? Well,


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[Assistant] My Chief of Staff is coming to me and the next time we go back home, we're meeting with those people.


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[Assistant] So, like I said, whether it's you or you got a bunch of hunting friends or other people who are concerned, engaging in your elected officials and whether it's your county commission, whether it's your state legislature, your federally elected people, that's one way. The other way is just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being out there for volunteer projects, uh, volunteer fundraising, volunteer whatever for, for formal groups. And sometimes people say, you know, I don't mind being part of something, but I'm,


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[Assistant] I'm not the public speaker. Uh, if there's one unfortunate thing about having a big mouth, you get appointed as the public speaker all the time. And most hunters I've found don't like to speak in public.


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[Assistant] And a lot of times organizations are helpful because you bring forth a number of people rather than just your own voice. Uhm, so.


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[Assistant] Whatever it is, find your passion that you're passionate about, because if you're trying to make a difference with something that you're really not that fired up about, it's gonna be more like work.


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[Assistant] You're gonna find time to fit it in your calendar because conservation has three common components. It's never easy.


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[Assistant] He'll read some of the things I write or some of the things I say and he'll call me up and tell me what an idiot I am. So, you just gotta accept the fact that not everyone's gonna agree with you. And it's usually inconvenient.


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[Assistant] We all have jobs and families and everything else, so we gotta make time for it in our calendar. And if it's not something you're really passionate about,


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[Assistant] It's hard to fit that into your scarce time. So, uh, as far as priority of things,


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[Assistant] Uh, if you talk to any elected official, they will tell you that a phone call is the most valuable, most effective thing. An email, yeaah, if there's enough of them. If it's a, like a form letter email, uh, they get those by the thousands and thousands. They acknowledge them, but...


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[Assistant] You're making progress. You may not know it right away, but you're making progress, so.


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[Assistant] I'm amazed at how many hunters complain about a policy decision and they didn't show up to comment.


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[Assistant] It's like, well, you had your chance, but, you know, they don't look you up in the phone book and say, hey, what do you think about this? You have to take the time to be engaged, so.


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[Assistant] Those are, those are things you can do. And don't discount that you're 19. I mean, the first time I had to get up and speak in front of a U.S. Senator, I was 26. And as comfortable as I was speaking in public, I almost wet my pants standing up there. I'm like, oh my gosh.


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[Assistant] You and your buddy are gonna start filming your own huns. My first answer would be don't do it.


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[Assistant] So it takes some discipline to understand that I'm here to tell a story.


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[Assistant] If you really want to engage people and you want to have fond memories, you want those memories to be of the entire experience of what you're doing. So, camp shots, got the flat tire on the truck, got stuck.


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[Assistant] Uh, a story when the audio is good that you can hear the person's reaction or hear what they're saying. And that's probably one of the biggest challenges that people don't look at is the value of audio and how to capture good audio while doing it.


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[Assistant] Go try it on haunts where, uh, if I screw it up, I, that's an over the counter tag. I can do this every day for the next six weeks and, and you'll see what works, what doesn't work and you won't make a fool of yourself. Or if you feel like you did, just show it to your friends and family and then.


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[Assistant] Put it on a private file somewhere that no one's gonna hold you accountable for it some year down the road, so.


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[Assistant] What would you, what, what aspects would make you decide?


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[Assistant] Well, I would go September 11th, 12th, and 13th if at all possible. Uhm, mostly just because you're gonna have


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[Assistant] When you have a really moist year and in that early season in August.


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[Assistant] Normally you can count on water as a, as a place that's going to concentrate elk or the last of the green vegetation is going to be in smaller places. So you got higher concentrations in the areas where you do find them.


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[Assistant] Well now the landscape is moist and green. So they're going to be dispersed heavily in that August period in a really wet year like this. So if I was you, I would


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[Assistant] Whether it's my employer, my school, my significant other, I would be like, please, let me go the last three days of season. And some people will say, well, gee, that, you know, all the bulls will be shot by then or they'll all be educated. No, not.


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[Assistant] Usually by the second or third day they're educated, so it doesn't make much difference if you hunt the third day of season or the last three days of season in terms of where are the elk and


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[Assistant] As far as being reminded, oops, hunting season's here again. So hopefully that gives you some idea. I wouldn't expect you to be at work on September 11th, 12th and 13th.


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[Assistant] I'm gonna let Cory answer it now, cause I'm already go-


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[Assistant] What I would add to that, whether it's Arizona or anywhere, if you think about a lot of elk herds are, they're not, they may not be Yellowstone type migratory where they go 50 miles, but they might be three or four miles migratory. And so you're going to have your summer range and your winter range and everything in between is transition range.


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[Assistant] That was a guarantee. I'm gonna be down there kooze deer hunting and if I get done earlier I should call you and see if I can come help you pack it out. I got strong, I got strong camera guys I could help you. Who's next?


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[Assistant] But I do know that horses are a lot of maintenance. They require a lot more tack. There's a lot more to it.


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[Assistant] Yeah, they can carry a lot of stuff. So for someone like me who drives a desk for a living, I'm an accountant. What do I know about horses?


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[Assistant] The really good part is llamas are almost accountant proof. You know the old Geico commercial, so easy even a caveman can do it? Llamas are so easy even a CPA can do it.


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[Assistant] That sounds like a really good answer. Who's next? Who's got the orange box?


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[Assistant] Jill wants to know, as since her husband asked the last question, how do you have a relationship of whatever level of intimacy?


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[Assistant] If you, uh, decide that every year you shoot an elk, you want to be gone even more. Have I, have I said that right, Jill?


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[Assistant] Uh, but in a serious answer to that question, I agree with a lot of what Corey said. In my house, we have tax season, cause I'm a CPA. So we have tax season and hunting season that I kinda occupy. And...


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[Assistant] Somewhere the planets aligned and I married a woman who's a fanatic angler.


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[Assistant] So we have tax season, fishing season and hunting season. So she gets the calendar the rest of the year.


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[Assistant] She's been running the joint for the last three or four months, right? What do I do? This is how stupid I am. Guys are stupid, just as a general rule. The guys are dumb and the women are smart. Okay? So any of you things about to get married, don't argue with the wife.


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[Assistant] Cause odds are you're going to be wrong two out of three, three out of four times. So don't argue anyhow. That's on the low side. Yeah. That's given guys the benefit of the doubt. So you come home and what do I do? I open the refrigerator. I'm like, since when have we put the milk on the second shelf?


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[Assistant] And she looks at me like, hey pal, I've been keeping this joint afloat for the last few months, you know. Just shut up. She doesn't say it, but any of us who've been married very long, you know that the non-verbal communication is way more effective and way more meaningful than the verbal communication.


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[Assistant] So I take the hand, put my tail between my legs. Honey, can I run to town and get you a coffee and a donut and da da da? And so, yeaah, it's, I'm just lucky. As Ed is also.


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[Assistant] Just saying from personal experience Ed, if you've been out hunting for three weeks and it snowed three feet since the last time you called home,


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[Assistant] And I would add to that, there's also a seasonal pattern to that. So, I break the out calendar down into five periods. Early season of August, pre-rut, peak rut, post rut, late season. The first three seasons,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are more of a feed pattern, even the peak rut. So the cows are always on the best feed. So if the cows are on the best feed, that's where the bulls are gonna be. And if that best feed is a half mile from the road, that's where the bulls are gonna be.


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[Assistant] No, you get into these later seasons after the rifle season start, post rut and late season. Yeaah, then they're, you're talking about a little bit more of a get back there kind of thing. I call them sanctuaries. You know, sanctuary doesn't have to be distance. It can be topography.


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[Assistant] And you're from Colorado, where at? He said Denver, just went to Denver.


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[Assistant] Where I shot? Not the last Colorado Bull, the one before that.


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[Assistant] You get up there, there's this big bench and it's, it's just where the elk congregate from the easier places that have ATV trails and other stuff. So in November, your third rifle over the counter rifle season, I know I can hike in there. Yeah, it's going to take me 45, 50 minutes, but that first 500 feet of vertical just causes everyone to


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[Assistant] We can hear the highway, we can hear people talking and we're shooting bull out there. And a sanctuary doesn't have to be huge distances. It could be blow down or a mess or it could be just topography up or down where people say, I don't want to carry an elk out of there. So.


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[Assistant] Just remember you're sharing your lives together and that requires


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[Assistant] I think as younger people, where we all don't, we don't intentionally, we aren't intentionally selfish, but we just haven't matured through some of the times where we gotta be less selfish. And I was, why my wife put up with me when we first got married, I have no idea.


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[Assistant] I, as I reflect, the times where I did really stupid things that cost me my...


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[Assistant] It's because they're still in a feed pattern through the early part of that. I, where's the South cache from here? Like over that direction somewhere?


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[Assistant] Get drugged behind a vehicle for a half mile or something as they're sitting in a tree stand but I ended up doing a lot of sitting over water during that early hunt because I knew it's pre-rut.


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[Assistant] So, they're not gonna be as active as they are, and if I wanted to have encounters, I needed to focus on two other primary factors of food and water, and so.


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[Assistant] For people who, even if they're older people, usually it comes down for me as talking about the fact that I like the responsibility that comes with hunting what I'm gonna eat.


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[Assistant] So does anyone over on this side have a question? It's like, oh, alright. We need to start moving the box around a little bit here.


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[Assistant] My son loved to camp. He loved fires, he, you know, cooking marshmallows, he... Just being out there with the experience of...


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[Assistant] Uh, we'd do the little contest thing. So we had a little, uh, like a game cart.


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[Assistant] Well it'd get front heavy and bury into the sagebrush and the other person and go tumble and we just thought that was all. I mean obviously we left our gear and our firearms up the hill but.


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[Assistant] Whatever it was that he thought was fun, that's what we did.


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[Assistant] I'm making an investment now to make sure that he understands the natural world, that he's excited about things, and whether he decided to hunt or not hunt.


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[Assistant] I'm glad he does, but it was mostly about him understanding where a lot of our food came from, how we as humans interact in this natural world, and by making it fun and making it about him and not about me, it seemed to have worked out.


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[Assistant] So the question is, in Utah, uh, late September is when a lot of the rifle seasons happen in the limited entry units, which is peak rut, uh, which is one of the few states in the country, you get a few of those in Arizona, very, very few.


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[Assistant] Other than that, Utah, that's where you're going to be hunting them with a rifle in the rut, for the most part. So, the question was, in that scenario, do you do anything differently because you're rifle hunting, as far as how you call it, when you call it, what you do, compared to if you were archery hunting? Did I get that right? Alright, and Cory's going to answer that question.


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[Assistant] Uh, I tell my buddy Jerry, hey, I got a Nevada out tag. I can't afford to draw another tag. Oh, don't worry. Apply for the early rifle hunt in unit 10. You'll never draw. Guess what? I drew.


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[Assistant] So, I got to experience one of those early rifle rut hunts that you have, and they're remarkable hunts, but it's probably the hunt I've felt more pressure than any hunt I've ever been on in my life. All of a sudden people are like, oh, you're never gonna draw that again. If you don't shoot a bull over, everyone had their number, right?


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[Assistant] Uh, what I would add to that is just make sure you have a fun hunt and you do it for what you want out of the hunt because you're gonna get all kinds of advice from other people of what your hunt should be.


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[Assistant] We got one minute, alright, right back here, give the box there real quick, like, one minute, huh.


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[Assistant] Uh, the question is, kind of, what goes into your decision process of should I keep hunting the same place I've been hunting or go to a new area?


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[Assistant] Purposely being bagged, but it's all about layers. Layers, layers, layers. Because you could be there on September 18th and it's like today, it's 85 degrees. And you could wake up in your tent on September 20th to 3 inches of snow. So.


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[Assistant] Thanks for being here guys and putting this on. This is cool. But my wife and I are going through the University of Elk Hunting right now. And one thing that I, one question I have, once you're done, you packed him out, he's home, he's in the freezer. What's your guys' favorite way to take care of him after that?


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[Assistant] How to cook him, how to eat him. If you're eating wolves, I imagine you know how to eat an elk.


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[Assistant] And with that Cory, we are ready to get into it. Let's jump into it.


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[Assistant] My question is about archery. So uhm, most female, uhm, archery elk hunters that I know were shooting between 50 and 60 pounds and we tend to have lower draw lengths.


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[Assistant] Uhm, so my question to you is, do you have any recommendations on arrow builds since that's much more critical, uhm, in our case, uh, for this kind of hunting?


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[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


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[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. To become a member, go to rmef.org.


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[Assistant] Use promo code ALKTOCK and when you do, when you sign up for the insider, you're going to get $50 of store credit, mad money, in their gear shop.


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[Assistant] And with that Cory, we are ready to get into it. Let's jump into it. Hey Cory, how are you doing? I'm doing great. How are you doing?


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[Assistant] I'm doing pretty good. I'm sitting in the back seat of my Ford Raptor as my camera crew is checking to see if it can do 90 on the interstate.


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[Assistant] We're somewhere between Idaho Falls and Twin Falls and I have one of the camera guys driving my truck and the sagebrush is going by so fast that I can hardly even identify it as sagebrush. Wow.


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[Assistant] So if anything happens to the truck, you've got the cameraman there to blame.


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[Assistant] And if somebody gets mad, I'm not going fast enough, well it's not my fault they didn't get up in the morning. Yep.


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[Assistant] Yeah, this will be a first for that. I'm, I'm on my way to Nevada for an archery mule deer hunt. And, uh,


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[Assistant] I don't know why I do this. Every time I go to Nevada, I complain that it's too hot. I get dehydrated. I'm always hunting a fifth choice or leftover tag. So there's a reason that you can draw it as your fifth choice or get it as a leftover. But I just like hanging out in Nevada.


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[Assistant] Well, you know, there's a reason for that probably. Yea, there's a reason why there's nobody there hunting. Exactly.


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[Assistant] So, but you know what's going to happen? I'm going to go there with a mule deer tag and I'm going to see all these elk probably.


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[Assistant] Yeah, unless you're into spot and stock elk hunting.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well the spot that I'm going to has a lot of elk, thanks to the Elk Foundation, when they did that reintroduction there.


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[Assistant] Uh, they made a deal with the public land grazing ranchers where they said, we'll buy this ranch that didn't have much deeded acreage, but it had a big grazing allotment and we will


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[Assistant] Kind of slice and dice the allotment and give it to the other public land grazers so that it'll...


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[Assistant] Take some pressure off the forage if elk start competing for forage. So with that deal in place, that's how elk in this part of Nevada.


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[Assistant] They're all over the place, they migrate into Idaho, all kinds of stuff.


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[Assistant] You know when we were talking about what we want to do for this podcast, it's a little bit of our own personal experience and then also some experience or some feedback from the questions we always get where there's a ton of questions about


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[Assistant] Equipment and gear and does anyone make this or where do you find that or I see you modify this blah blah blah blah.


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[Assistant] And you and I have both had the blessing of being able to work with companies where we start with an idea and end up with a finished product. And I thought it'd be cool to just kind of give the audience an idea of how that works.


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[Assistant] Yeah, for me, I've, I've always just bought whatever was available and very often


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[Assistant] The stuff I end up using was made by a company, it was intended, it's intended use was mostly for deer hunting. And somehow I got to figure out how to adapt it to elk hunting. Uh, and so,


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[Assistant] I've, since I started working on this knife project with Gerber where they said let's build something specific for elk hunters, uh,


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[Assistant] I wanted to, I guess I started looking at it differently. Alright, what else is out there that was built specifically for elk hunters?


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[Assistant] Rather than just general hunting or deer hunting and you elk hunters figure out a way to make this work. And, uh, so.


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[Assistant] That's kind of some of the ideas that were bouncing around my head when I read all the viewer questions or listener questions.


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[Assistant] You know, one of the ones you'd mentioned was how sick a gear started.


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[Assistant] Was just, there was no performance clothing in the outdoor space.


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[Assistant] Yeah, now I think about spending a hundred days a year up in the hills from August hot to December cold and.


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[Assistant] That would create a level of misery that at my softness of older age, I wouldn't be able to tolerate. Yup.


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[Assistant] Well, I must have picked up some of those bad habits then.


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[Assistant] But no, you just think about how much trial and error, prototyping, uh, entrepreneurial engineering went into what we take for granted today. I mean,


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[Assistant] You, you have told me before about growing up.


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[Assistant] How many seasons or how long of a period of time did that last while you were prototyping and experimenting?


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[Assistant] So just looking, so that's diaphragms, but then even you look at bugle tubes.


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[Assistant] You know, a little piece of flexible plastic to start with. And now you look at the shape and the...


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[Assistant] The sounds that they can make and how you can do different things with them.


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[Assistant] All that stuff just, I think we take for granted today because we go online and it's available to us. It'll be in our, in our mailbox in two days. But an awful lot of work and thought and idea has went into it specifically from an elk hunter.


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[Assistant] He's going to his kid's playbox and he's going to cut the ends off the wiffle ball bat and say, there, I just saved some money. He's not, he's not going to get quite the.


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[Assistant] The, uh, quality and the manipulation that he would in a diaphragm or a bugle tube that's been made specifically for a diaphragm call.


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[Assistant] The listener can go and buy those calls out at RockyMountainHuntingCalls.com, right? Yeah.


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[Assistant] Wow. You know, I have a saying anymore that I don't want anyone to pay for retail.


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[Assistant] So that's, that's why I'm big into promo codes. I don't like people paying full retail. If, if they can save 10 or 15% on everything they buy, that might be one extra tag they can buy this year. Absolutely.


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[Assistant] There's a lot of ways that I, I think of how elk hunting, just like you were saying earlier, the, uh, go out, you use something and after a season you say, there's gotta be a better way. There's gotta be a different way. And with enough tinkering and.


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[Assistant] Companies that are interested in providing better solutions, pretty soon.


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[Assistant] Here comes one of those ideas or solutions that


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[Assistant] Hopefully it's helpful to our conners.


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[Assistant] If I tried to think about how many elk I've done the gutless method on, but I've shot, my family has shot, our guest hunters have shot.


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[Assistant] It's, uh, it's a lot and I've never used a saw on any of them, but I was, I was with that mindset when I first started elk hunting. I thought, well, I gotta split the pelvic bone. I gotta figure out how I'm going to saw the head off. So I walked around with all that stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is, uh, I come from a trapping background and trappers are really snobs about their knives and the edge and how everything's just gotta be a certain way.


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[Assistant] Well what I found out when I was elk hunting, uh, doing the gutless method and other stuff is there's a lot of parts of an elk that are really tough on a knife.


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[Assistant] The reason that my blades were not lasting very long or why I had to stop and re-sharpen all the time.


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[Assistant] Well, tendon and bone is not favorable to any sharp edge. I don't care what quality of steel you use. And then you start doing the really thick leather where you're making the dorsal cuts or something like that or you're trying to


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[Assistant] Remove the head at the atlas joint and I mean the list goes on and on of all these things that elk really are tough on the cutting surface.


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[Assistant] Uh, of your blade and the integrity of your blade is paramount to being able to, to do what you need to do efficiently.


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[Assistant] So, Isaac Gerber and Andrew, who was the president at the time, said, uh,


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[Assistant] What's the worst thing about working on an elk? So I walked through all these parts of what really made it tough.


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[Assistant] Yeah, sure. So May of 2017, three years ago, they flew me out to their plant in Oregon and for three years they pretty much gave me the disposal of their designers and their engineering team.


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[Assistant] And I went through kind of the process you were talking about with the, uh,


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[Assistant] We went and took every knife they had, every knife their competitors had. We went down to Cabela's store nearby and we bought a whole shopping cart full of knives and they had me bring them back to where all their engineers were in this


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[Assistant] They send me 3D prints, like they print them on a 3D printer to determine all the ergonomics. I'm like, yeah.


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[Assistant] So it was just an incredible process and I think engineers and accountants


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[Assistant] And uh, don't take this the wrong way Cory, cause I know you're an, I know you're an engineer.


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[Assistant] That we were just going to have an exchangeable blade system.


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[Assistant] Did not withstand the forces that you sometimes put on those scalpel blades.


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[Assistant] When you're doing an elk, especially the, if you're getting in between on the knee joints and you're digging down in there to cut some of those tendons or if you're doing the atlas joint at the head, it just, there was a whole list of things where it was hard and so they would,


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[Assistant] Send me these exchange blade systems and we kept working about what type of blades, what type of handles, all this stuff. That process took the better part of a year and then they asked me, they said, do you think we could do something similar on the same principle with a folding knife? And I said, well,


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[Assistant] We can, but we gotta make sure that we have a tool or something else that protects the integrity of the main cutting blade.


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[Assistant] So I'd like to take credit for it, but there are engineers are the ones who came up with this. They call it a tendon tool and.


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[Assistant] Really what it is, it's a super hard steel, super sharp.


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[Assistant] With a chiseled and beveled serrated edge to it.


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[Assistant] But you can get in there and remove the, the hide around the burr of an antler, do the atlas joint, do the tendons. You can do those so quick with that tendon tool and you're not dulling up your main cutting blade in the process. So.


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[Assistant] Once we started working on that, it kind of had the same parallel to the exchangeable, we call it EBS, exchange blade system, how that has a serrated blade and then two other traditional cutting blades.


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[Assistant] Your, your cutting blade should last at least three elk. That was our design was, alright, it's gotta last for at least three elk. And so that's a function of blade angle, what type of steel, what type of treatment to it. I, I had no idea there was that much science that went into all this stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they would, they would send me, uh,


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[Assistant] Lack of brittleness, we're trying to find that in between and I take the blade and I tap it on the antler of elk to see if I could chip the blade to see if it was too brittle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Find in these sweet spots and there's, there's a couple things on there that people will notice is I hate


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[Assistant] I'm having a pocket clip on my hunting knife because it digs into the palm of my hand. And the first thing I told the engineers or I told the whole team is if you guys put a pocket clip on this, I'm, I'm out of here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because so many times after a couple hours working on an elk, that pocket clip is augering into your palm or your hand. And I, so I asked them, I said, why do, why does every hunting knife on the shelf at Cabela's or Bass Pro or Sportsman's, why do they all have pocket clips?


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[Assistant] And they said, because the buyers at the big box stores demand a pocket clip on every knife.


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[Assistant] Not because it has any utility, not because it creates any value.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's because the buyers who buy the knives at the big box stores want a pocket clip.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm in my head, I'm thinking, I wonder how many gutless method done out, those guys have done, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I don't want to pick on the buyers of the big box stores, but for me, when I asked that right up front, it kind of gave me a bit of a revelation of, you know what, there's a lot of things that we end up buying as hunters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That probably have no practical purpose to that, to some feature on the end product. And I don't want that. I told them I do not want a pocket clip.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not that anyone's gonna worry about 40 or 50 cents, but I just, I don't know. And then, uh, the other thing is I told them I am tired of losing my knives up on the mountain. Even though they're, they're orange at night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I lay it down and I still can't see it, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gerber does some stuff for the military with this retro reflective tape kind of looking stuff. That's a real technical term, isn't it? Tape kind of looking stuff? Yea, that's an accountant's, that's accountant version of engineering language, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, it's retro-reflective where not only does it reflect the headlamp, but it reflects it back to the source of the light.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is the retro-reflective tape. So I'm thinking by next year,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I wish I could take credit for it. I just said I want something like that. But again, the Gerber engineers are the ones who came up with the idea, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wondered and I think both you and I interact with enough people where we always hear the guy or gal who says, I've got this great idea. So I'm going to get rich with this someday. But an idea to an end product.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is there's a whole lot of distance, whole lot of mileage to cover between the idea and getting it to an end product. Yeaah. I, I didn't appreciate how much work went into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so they, when the first week I was there, I think I was there three or four days, they had all these different use cases for an elk hunter and what they use their knife for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I told them, I said, well, if you can solve all those problems, this knife is going to cost $500.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They said, well, that's our, you know, we gotta solve that problem. You don't worry about that. You just, you tell us what every, I don't care if it's a big problem or what you think is a little problem, let's get it on the board here and let's solve every one of them if we can. And, uh, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After I told them the $500, they said, well, we gotta keep it under $200 to be in the ballpark that anyone would want to buy it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and then they come up, then when it's all done this spring, they tell me, yeah, we're going to retail it for $60. I'm like $60? That's like something you get in a Cracker Jack box, man. Come on. But, oh well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sometimes you have to put on a knife blade for elk and why the gerber, the little vital and why the havelons and the others, they just break.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They break a lot when you're doing elk where they won't when you're doing deer because everything is a many scale tougher thicker demands even more sharpness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There, if someone can put lateral force on those blades on that EBS and break it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The odds are you're, you're gonna put all the pressure you want on those blades and you're never gonna break them. And if one of them gets dull,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they sent me all different versions of those also. Longer, shorter, thicker, fatter, you name it. And uh, so I guess we'll see. Maybe people will say, you know what Newberg?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It does. You get 20% off if you go to Gerbergear.com and you use Elk Talk as the promo code. Man, that's a heck of a deal. 20% off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so now all of a sudden this $60 knife is 48 bucks. Yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, uh, you see in these pictures of these elk rubbing the velvet like I am the last few days?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to believe that we are


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[Assistant] Well, a whole nother cycle. Elk have grown their antlers, they're shedding the velvet. And when's your first elk hunt? Late August?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You get as close as possible and you just, even though there's, he may not have cows, you're just trying to get him in the, in the moment or get him worked up?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I'm going to follow up with some more of the questions we get then. People are asking, do you bugle then? Are you cowcalling? It sounds like you're doing whatever it takes to get him to respond.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow. So obviously it's always helpful to have a caller and a shooter no matter what time of year, but if they're coming in silent, like you're explaining, that's really helpful then to have a shooter out in front of you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's like downshifting, it's like locking in the hubs for you. It is. I might be able to keep up with you most of the time then on August 30th, but by September 10th, I'm just a boat anchor for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So where you're, if, I mean, I know everything is somewhat dependent upon the scenario, the landscape, the situation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you're finding elk in late August, early September, you know, September 1st, 2nd, 3rd, whatever, are you finding them staged somewhere near the cows or is it just these habitual places where for whatever reason,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good, good to know because I, I see these places when I'm out rifle hunting. I'll walk through his spot. I'm like, look at this. There's 12 rubs within 30 yards right here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I view late August, early September, that's why you hunt mule deer in analog, cause it's too hot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when you go do the Roosevelt, will that be in the peak rut later in September?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll see how that goes. You're going to be hunting, uh, you're going to be hunting with Kurt, right? From Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls? Yep. Yeah, we're going to grab some llamas and head on into the back country of Idaho and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He'll probably call you after that hunt and say, this guy's got problems, man. How do you hang out with him?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Man, that makes me a little jealous. That's why I said that, I wanted to make you a little jealous.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doing great. It's almost season time, so we're ready to get going. Absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we are. You know, it's been, I think like everywhere else, just super hot, super dry and super smoky from all the fires. It's like last night we got tons of rain and I wake up this morning and I look out and I still can't see the mountains. So it's just, we're just socked in with smoke over here and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, uh, I'm a little worried about that for, for elk hunting, but you know, you just have to work with it, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, a week and a half to two weeks we've gotten a handful of storms that have come through and dumped quite a bit of moisture actually, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're hopeful that that kind of tempers everything down a little bit and gives us a good, uhm, you know, start to the season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The grass is starting to actually grow again here, so that's a good sign.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hopefully the high country is doing well and that moisture will help sustain us through the fall. Yeah, for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was 2017, it was the fall of 2017 when kind of the idea really just started. Uhm, my brother and I were


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the backcountry hunting elk and before that trip he said, you really need to get a pair of trekking poles and I was like, I don't want a pair of trekking poles, those are for sissies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know we just like you really need some and so i think i went to walmart of all places on the way out of town. Grab the cheapest nineteen dollar pair of trekking poles i could find on the rack.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And off we went, you know, and we were hunting and got a bull down and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We just started that process of packing out and we were coming down a pretty rocky face and i bent those nineteen dollar poles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we just talked about, man, could you make a trekking pole specifically for hunting? And I got home and of course got on Google and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know again the super cheap pairs to two hundred and thirty dollar pairs and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it was a little discouraging at first, but just kind of couldn't let go of that idea of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Could you really make a trekking pole specifically for a backcountry hunter? And just started tinkering around with that idea. It took about six months to kind of put the very first prototype together and of course we were really weight conscious and so we


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, carbon just doesn't last, especially in that bottom section of the pole. So we broke a lot of different prototypes and uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It just was a process of starting to, little by little, tweak it here, tweak it there and, you know, over the course of about a year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We, we just made a lot of changes and my brother and I just kinda would take them out and test them and break them and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tweak it a little bit and take it out and test it and break it and, uh, you know, after about that year, we just kind of settled in on that combination of carbon fiber, upper and middle section, and then like an aerospace grade aluminum in the bottom section. And you know, we, we took them out and we didn't break them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've gotten connected with you and Randy and I think I sent you guys the first...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Prototype models and you guys had kind of tested them and provided some really valuable feedback and we made a few more tweaks at that point and then I got connected with Brian call and he was taking a trip with Ryan Lampers to New Zealand and I said.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you mind taking them over there and testing them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was really skeptical, you know Brian, he's super skeptical about everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, they survived his New Zealand trip and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was at that point, that was about, uhm, May of 2018 I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, he came back and went, yeah, you know, we think we can put our stamp of approval on these things and, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We just did a few cosmetic tweaks at that point and then we launched like four months later in August of 2018 and for that first year we were just the sissy sticks trekking pole. We just had one model.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had no idea what we were doing trying to build an e-commerce brand. I came from, you know, a financial services background working with property casualty insurance companies and default mortgage servicing firms and hedge funds and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, right, right, had zero really engineering background whatsoever, uhm, but it was just an option.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so, you know, we, again, we were just trying to figure it out. It was, at that point, we felt like we had a viable product that, that we could sell and we had some people that were willing to help us and uhm, so we, you know, we launched and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, what can we do to improve this model of a pole and where do we really want to take this business as a brand and I think at that point it was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, it was, I think it was January of 2020 at that point and I got connected with a few more people, you know, Dave Brinker, Jordan Harbertson, Ryan Bassham.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Harrison Lindsey, a few other guys that just, you know, have a lot of experience in this industry and a lot of experience of, you know, bringing products to market and branding and, you know, just, just building an actual brand and so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I invited them to be on an advisory board that we created.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And to my surprise, they all said yes. And so we started this little advisory board and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, there was like five guys on it that we have and, and I'll never forget, you know, I was trying to show Dave Brinker one time a bunch of these product ideas that I had and some other little prototypey things that I had and he kind of stopped me in my tracks and he was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where you're going as a business, what kind of brand you're trying to create and how you're going to connect with the customer, right? It's not enough just to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How we're going to kind of build a system of products that work together. And you know, at that point, we kind of realized that the sissy sticks name, although it was disruptive and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we showed the poles being used in really epic places by epic people and, and that was enough to sell, you know, a trekking pole, but it, you know, we really decided we're gonna have to go through a rebranding process here to turn sissy sticks into a brand that can actually be applied across multiple products and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so we went through a rebranding process and those guys on our advisory board were really instrumental in, in helping, uhm, helping me go through that process and, and that's where, you know, we came up with Peaks equipment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, um, and now we're really focused more on not just trekking poles. That's a big part of our business. It's our flagship product still, but we've got three models of poles now. Um, you know, a couple more in the works and then, you know, we're really transitioning into a brand that, that develops backcountry hunting equipment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm primarily focused around the backcountry campsite and that's where we're at today. That's awesome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and like you said, it just, it, it was a process. The things that work for your hiking crowd, you know, that's staying on established trails, even if they're in the back country, you know, they're still on established trails and routes and a, and a back country hunter that might use those trails to get into the back country, but quickly


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Deviates from those trails and just is climbing over rocks and stumps and scree fields and everything else. Just the abuse that those poles take is significantly more than what the average, you know, trail hikers can put on them and, you know, surprisingly, you know, we, uh, figured out the, the secret formula, I guess, you know, it just works and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so far so good. Our warranty rate on our trekking poles is like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 0.2% or something. That's just something incredibly low.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, but you know, if anybody does have a problem, we just fix it. We just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Take care of our trekking poles to my knowledge have the most comprehensive warranty in the industry and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's really never been a situation that we've said no to. Uhm, you know, when somebody calls us or sends us an email, it says, hey, I had an issue and even the guy who let his dog chew all over the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, that, that process again was something they were really helpful with of, you know, I remember someone, I can't remember who said you can't, you can't have a two-legged stool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, when we were thinking about that mission, we really just thought about, okay, what are going to be the three pillars of Peaks?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And those things you just mentioned, providing opportunities for others to get out, have meaningful experiences in the outdoors.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, you know, supporting conservation efforts and improving access to public lands. We just really felt like those were three things that worked well together and supported, you know, this community that we love so much.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Climbing corporate ladders and trying to get ahead in corporate America that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just, when I saw this really was viable, I just said, forget all that. You know, it was stressful, it took me away from my family a lot and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just thought here's my opportunity. This is my chance. I'm going to just bail and give this a go and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Put my whole heart and soul into it and hopefully it works and so far so good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean it's, uh, you know, it's interesting is we were running it out of the house for the, you know, the first two years basically and you know, the garage was just getting fuller and fuller and fuller and then it started flowing into the house and the kitchen table and the living room coffee table and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Person in the planet, she, she has from day one just been like you really need to do this and this is something that I see you are so happy doing that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You just gotta go for it and it's been awesome, but, but six months ago she did finally start going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, you know, for those of you that are listening in the Bozeman area, if you know where Birch Barrel is, just off of kind of Jackrabbit and Baxter, we're right next door to the Birch Barrel location and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've got a, you know, warehouse space and a little showroom up front.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're still working on trying to get the showroom finished up, but uhm, we're super excited about it and I finally, you know, gave my wife her house back, so she's happy about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you think of any great business, right, even you go back to like Apple computers or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you see those old photographs of them sitting in a garage somewhere, right? Yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, you know, there's businesses that go out and raise a bunch of money and, you know, have a lot of capital and they can start that way, which is great for them, but I think there's really something to be said for the entrepreneur who's willing to just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be scrappy, be nimble and just make it work with what he's got and figure it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so we came out with our Gators, our Stormcastle Gator last year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and our focus with the Gator, again, one of those products that's kinda out there, it's been there forever, and you think about, you know, a Gator and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything we did in regards to that design, if it didn't tie into that, then we just scrapped it and forgot about it. So, we put a lot of effort into, you know, building a really durable gator. Uh, our gators feature a Dyneema thread, which, you know, a lot of people don't know a lot about Dyneema.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's uhm, it's 12 times stronger than steel or something crazy like that. And, you know, all the professional sailboat teams, you know, all the sails are, are stitched together using a Dyneema thread. Uhm, so just, it's super durable, super abrasive resistant, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it just is, so far they've been bulletproof and, you know, we added a lot of extra features. Our bootstraps have a Kevlar reinforcement in them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We added a, a medial kick plate on the inseam, instep of the gator. That's a hypalon material, which is the same material that's used to make the military's rubber rafts and things like that. So anywhere where we felt like we could just beef up that gator and make it really durable and provide a lot of protection.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Adjust the buckle and you know in the future you just leave it where it's at use the gatekeeper lock in place and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's good to go, but those have been really well received. We were actually pretty surprised at how well they've done. Uhm, the only question we keep getting asked is are you going to come out with more colors, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, it's a process, right? We, we really just, we knew Black went with everything, so we started with Black and, uh, we just wanted to see if they'd sell. It was kind of like the trekking pole experiment, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We built it, I remember placing that first order for trekking poles and getting a little puckered, like, that's a lot of money, is this gonna work? And then gators were the same way, you know, we placed a pretty big order and we thought, are these gonna sell?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think literally within two months, we sold out of the first round of Gators.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We just felt like, okay, yep, here we go. So yeah, so we coming out with more colors, probably like a loading green, uhm, kind of an earthy tone and then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so far, you know, they've been pretty bulletproof for us. We've been really pleased with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With the overall response that we've received and the thing I love to hear the most actually is a lot of people will say


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's right. Uhm, so we've been working, like I said earlier, we've been working on a lot of things around the backcountry campsite and you know, probably the staple product in everybody's backpack when you get in the backcountry that you have to have is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so, you know, we've gone through about three generations of prototypes on this, uhm, on this particular TP. Uhm, we've got a couple other models as well, shelters that are, that are going to incorporate our trekking poles. And again, as I kind of mentioned, we're trying to build, take a system approach, right? So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of our products, we want to work together in some capacity, and so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, with our TP in particular, there's a really unique feature that integrates our trekking poles into the TP, but not as the center pole. And that's all I'll say about it for now, but uhm, it's really cool. We think it's kind of another game changing approach to uhm, you know, TP structures and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, of course, you know, if you have a teepee, you gotta have a stove, uh, for those late season, colder weather environments. And so we're working on a titanium, ultralight titanium stove for the teepee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like trekking poles, right? Why would we send them to the guys that go to the worst places? But it, uh, it needs that test and, and we're pretty confident that it's going to perform pretty well, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We took a kind of a unique approach to some of the guy out points and tying guy out points together, which has never really been done before, at least that we've ever seen. And so, you know, we had a big storm that blew through here in Bozeman a week ago or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had about 60 mile an hour gusts and I was really nervous to go drive out and check the TP that next morning. Uhm, but we got out there and looked at it and it looked like it hadn't even moved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, so we think that this new approach to kind of the, the guy ops is going to work really well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're super excited about that. So that's where that's at. You know, in regards to other products, again, backcountry campsite, that's where we're focused and you know, we're kind of taking the approach of let us help you get to camp and let us help you establish camp and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, like our gators, we're really, there's the three things that we want to focus on and that's durability.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Protection and comfort. We think that, you know, if you got a really durable product that's gonna last and withstand whatever conditions the backcountry can throw at it, uhm, it's gonna keep you out there longer. If you're protected, you're gonna stay out there longer. And if you're comfortable, you're gonna stay out there longer. So that's really our


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Philosophy around designing product is just, if we can, if we can check the boxes on those three things, then we have, we feel like we have a win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A real balance there that you have to strike between durability and weight. And, but we also know that, you know, if you're too heavy, it's just too heavy and people aren't gonna.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well how light can we go but still be really durable? So. Very cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, you know, we're super excited. You just announced it on social media and we're super excited to be part of Destination Elk this year and Brandon and I have been


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really busy trying to scout a new area. It's, I was telling you before we started the podcast that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've hunted the same areas around Bozeman for so many years that...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we know where we're going to hunt and there's elk there. So I'm not going to waste time trying to find a new area. It's always, you know, we've been successful and, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you know, we agreed that we'll leave those areas sacred and, and we won't, you know, disclose that, but we'll go find a new area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we've done some hunting kind of just randomly, spring bear, things like that in different areas and uhm, we had kind of located a spot that we thought would be really good for the fall and elk hunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, spent basically the last two months e-scouting and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're excited to try a new area, uhm, and just get out and learn some new country and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a rough year to probably do that with, you know, the drought and the conditions, but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No just make it you know i think all that more special in the end of if we're successful which we expect to be and hope to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That we were able to do something totally new and explore new country and have a new experience and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, for Brandon and I, as kind of a father-son team, it's, it's gonna be a great opportunity to just be together and bond as, as family and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And hopefully get into a bunch of elk. So that, you know, we're super excited to, to number one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be a part of Destination Elk this year and number two, have this new experience. So we think we're going to have to adapt our style a little bit more than what we normally do. We're very similar to your style in regards to hunting normally and always just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Put on the miles trying to find that bowl that wants to play and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think just, you know, not knowing the areas well, not knowing kind of where these elk are gonna, you know, hold up and, and pocket themselves with the conditions. We, you know, we might have to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know find those those pockets of water that are that exist in and kind of focus on those a little bit more or really good feed areas.


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[Assistant] This year, you know, we might change those tactics a little bit. We might be a little more stealthy and, uh, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Trail the herd a little bit more until we figure out kind of what their patterns are and where their bedding areas really are and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we haven't really wanted to go in and put a lot of pressure on these elk in this area that we're focusing on ahead of season, so uhm.


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[Assistant] You know, we've been, we've done a lot of e-scouting, uhm, and just looking at the area through Google Earth and uhm,


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[Assistant] And then we've done a little bit of boots on the ground and you know, we're just going to play it by ear and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've picked out kind of two or three different hunting areas that we can all kind of, we can hit from kind of the same base camp area. And, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we'll just, if one area is not producing, we'll move to the next and just hope for the best.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, we're, we're super stoked to see everybody else's experience too. I mean, and when you told me you were kind of patterning this after that, uhm, Alone series on the, on the History Channel, I, I'd never watched that show before and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Engaging for your audience to be able to see all these different hunting


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Groups and how they approach, you know, elk hunting and I think it'll be a super educational experience and just a really great, great time.


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[Assistant] I was at an event last night that my brother showed up to and he had seen the post on social media kind of announcing it and he was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow that looks like it's gonna be awesome and i think the excitement leading into it and just the variety of terrain and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Elk species and everything else that people are going to be able to enjoy through this series is just gonna.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, I was, you know, we were going through that process with, with Randy. Randy was helping us with ours and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I need, I need to get some more specific information about where you're going to be hunting. And so I was like, really? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, okay. So I gave him one. He's like, are you going to be going this far down this certain drainage? And I'm like, well, maybe, I don't know why. And he's like, well, if you do that, that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part just drops into a different ranger district and we gotta get a whole new film permit for, for just that little part of this basin that you might hunt in and we'd like to avoid that if possible. And I was like, man, this process is crazy. It is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the reality is you just keep making a bigger pie right here your slice might get a little thinner but the pie gets bigger and so you really still have the same and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just one of those things where I think the more people we can get involved and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And have a voice, you know, I was listening to a previous podcast that you and Randy did and he had just gotten back from Helena, Montana.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some legislative session that he had there and some guy drove from Glasgow, Montana, six hours to go and have his voice heard for two minutes. And, uh, you know, I was like, wow, that's a great example. And I'm only an hour and a half away from Helena. So what's my problem, right? Why don't I get in the truck?


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[Assistant] And go there and but I think we all can do better and have a voice and help protect what we love to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're not quite as compact, but they're a little more versatile. You know, I like to use my trekking poles for more than just hiking. I, I use them for glassing on top of with my binos. I prop out tent walls occasionally. I use them for a lot of different things, propping up my pack when I'm sitting there and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the elites are my favorite, they're a little longer at 24 inches, but.


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[Assistant] A lot, you know, all the same features of the z-poles and uhm, but yeaah, people can go to peaksequipment.com, again that's P-E-A-X, equipment.com, but if you happen to go to peaks, like you would spell it correctly,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] PeaksEquipment.com or we're on social media as peaks underscore equip. And that's the best way to kind of reach out to us and talk with us.


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[Assistant] We are. We, uh, we've got two dealers, uhm, that we work with now. Uh, Go Hunt is one that we are partnered with now. Black Ovis is one that we're partnered with and, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I agree. So anyways, well, thanks for letting us come on the podcast today. Super excited to be a part of what you're doing and working with you.


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[Assistant] Like I said, hopefully we'll get two bowls down. If not, we'll go back to our honey hole.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. To become a member, go to