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[Assistant] But according to Devin Arthurs, Russell wasn't the only threat inside Atomwaffen.


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[Assistant] It's unclear what the authorities did in response to Arthur's plea to investigate Adam Waffen. The FBI won't talk to me about its handling of the case. But here's what I do know.


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[Assistant] Adam Waffen continued to operate, and its violence didn't end.


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[Assistant] Seven months later in Virginia, Adam Waffen follower Nick Giampa allegedly killed his ex-girlfriend's parents. They had objected to his Nazi views. Giampa is yet to stand trial.


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[Assistant] But the 17-year-old appeared to be fascinated with Atomwaffen. His social media accounts were full of its propaganda.


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[Assistant] Sam Woodward was arrested for allegedly killing Blaise Bernstein, a gay Jewish college student.


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[Assistant] Shortly after the arrest, I published a story identifying Woodward as a member of Atomwaffen. Woodward is pleaded not guilty.


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[Assistant] But in a cache of confidential chat logs I obtained, Adam Waffen celebrated the slang.


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[Assistant] They referred to Woodward as a one-man gay Jew wrecking crew.


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[Assistant] Three killings in the eight months after the arrest of Brandon Russell and Devin Arthurs.


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[Assistant] Devin Arthur's predictions of violence seem to have come true.


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[Assistant] From everything I've learned, Devin Arthurs is a deeply troubled young man.


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[Assistant] He gave conflicting explanations for the killings and was ultimately deemed mentally unfit to stand trial.


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[Assistant] But as I continue my investigation, his description of Atomwaffen and its ambitions is checking out.


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[Assistant] Adam Waffen's confidential chat logs support Arthur's claim that the group is recruiting soldiers.


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[Assistant] And they reveal the existence of what they describe as hate camps, in which members with military experience provide training in firearms and guerrilla tactics.


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[Assistant] One hate camp early this year took place here. In Death Valley.


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[Assistant] Adam Waffen filmed themselves training out in the desert.


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[Assistant] The group was drawn to Death Valley because of its association with Charles Manson. They made a pilgrimage to Devil's Hole.


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[Assistant] This small gap in the rock opens up into a massive 500 foot deep cavern.


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[Assistant] Manson planned to found an underground city here after the apocalypse.


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[Assistant] Adam Waffen's communication showed this hate camp was convened by a member who used the online handle. Commissar.


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[Assistant] I'm able to identify Commissar as Michael Hubske, based in Las Vegas.


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[Assistant] Hubske isn't a soldier himself, but claimed to have been a private military contractor.


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[Assistant] He boasted in Atomwaff in chats about his short barreled CZ Scorpion rifle.


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[Assistant] Hubske discussed attacks on infrastructure and claimed to have a classified map of the west coast power grid. At Hubske's Death Valley hate camp,


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[Assistant] And at other Adam Waffen gatherings around the country.


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[Assistant] The group shoots propaganda videos. Their members fire assault rifles, storm buildings, and clear rooms.


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[Assistant] Hubske hoped to organize regular training for Adam Waffen.


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[Assistant] And encouraged members to join a Nevada weapons facility called Frontside.


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[Assistant] The idea was for Atomwaffen members to get schooled in advanced firearms tactics.


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[Assistant] I contacted Front Sight and they were shocked to learn about the group. They agreed to meet with me out at their facility.


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[Assistant] When I reached Hubske, he'd been banned for life from Front Sight. He tells me he left Adam Waffen, and has renounced Nazism. He won't go on camera for an interview.


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[Assistant] But using information from the chat logs, I'm able to identify other hate camp participants.


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[Assistant] He's a 20-something army veteran who asks me to call him Jeremiah. He came back from a combat tour damaged and angry.


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[Assistant] How did the group regard, uh, combat veterans and service members?


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[Assistant] When you guys did do training, what kind of, uh, training was it? What did you, what did you learn? What kind of skills


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[Assistant] By studying Atomwaffen chat logs, my colleagues and I develop a list of more than 80 Atomwaffen members.


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[Assistant] I already know about Adam Waffen founder Brandon Russell and his time in the National Guard.


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[Assistant] But there are also three active duty soldiers or marines and three military veterans.


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[Assistant] I want to better understand the link between Adam Waffen and the military.


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[Assistant] I go to see Professor Kathleen Ballou at the University of Chicago. She's been researching the history of the white power movement.


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[Assistant] We're looking at a current group called the Atomwaffen Division, and they are actively recruiting military members. Does that surprise you?


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[Assistant] Ballou outlines a long history of military men who became key figures in the white power movement.


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[Assistant] World War II veteran and founder of the Aryan Nations.


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[Assistant] Louis Beam, Vietnam veteran and grand dragon of the KKK.


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[Assistant] Timothy McVeigh, Gulf War veteran and Oklahoma City bomber.


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[Assistant] When we speak to people involved in this movement today, they talk about leaderless resistance. Can you explain that to me?


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[Assistant] That because we don't understand Oklahoma City as being an outgrowth of an organized movement that has been around for decades, that is modeling the military, that is involving military members, that the authorities have never really been able to put a stop to it.


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[Assistant] In Washington, a senior analyst at the Department of Homeland Security had tried to draw attention to some of these same concerns.


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[Assistant] In 2009, Daryl Johnson wrote an intelligence report looking at the rise of white supremacist groups and their connection to the military.


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[Assistant] Johnson's report warned that the US faced a growing terrorist threat from white supremacist and anti-government groups, and that these groups might recruit military veterans.


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[Assistant] Today, Johnson's report might seem prophetic, but its publication nearly a decade ago provoked a political backlash from conservative lawmakers and veterans groups.


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[Assistant] The report was retracted and his unit disbanded.


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[Assistant] After speaking to Johnson, I hear from two former Homeland Security officials who say the government remains under-resourced and out of position for dealing with the white supremacist threat.


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[Assistant] For months I've been trying to get someone in the government, especially at the Department of Defense, to talk to me. No one at the Pentagon.


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[Assistant] Demanding an accounting of their efforts to rid the ranks of extremists.


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[Assistant] The Pentagon responded to Ellison with a letter stating that the military aggressively screens new recruits.


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[Assistant] The DOD also said it had received 27 reports of extremist activity over the past five years and had disciplined 18 service members.


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[Assistant] Major General John Altenberg served as the Deputy Judge Advocate General, the second highest ranking JAG officer in the U.S. Army.


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[Assistant] He later oversaw the military commissions at Guantanamo Bay.


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[Assistant] In its letter to Congressman Ellison, the DOD also said it had investigated the Atomwaffen members I'd identified. But they didn't say what they had done.


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[Assistant] All I know is that only one member, a Marine, Vassilius Pistolis, was court-martialed and expelled from the service.


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[Assistant] In response to our questions, a Pentagon spokeswoman sent a statement saying she couldn't provide information on individual cases, but quote, our standards are clear.


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[Assistant] Participation in extremist activities has never been tolerated and is punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.


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[Assistant] She added that commanders are, quote, encouraged to be preventive and proactive and they are doing that.


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[Assistant] I've been writing stories about Adam often and talking to insiders for nearly a year. And it seems like the group has been paying attention.


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[Assistant] From federal prison, Adam Waffen founder Brandon Russell issues a thinly veiled threat to former members, people he believes are leaking information about the group.


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[Assistant] I learned the video was put out by the group's Texas cell, led by John Cameron Denton, who calls himself rape.


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[Assistant] In 2017, Atomwaffen began barring its members from appearing in public demonstrations.


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[Assistant] But I find pictures from an earlier anti-immigrant protest.


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[Assistant] Denton can be seen at the rally with a shotgun and a skull mask. And then afterwards, posing with his fellow neo-Nazis, with his mask off.


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[Assistant] I get a tip that Denton may be attending a black metal festival here called Destroying Texas.


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[Assistant] After a year of tracking Adam Waffen online, I have a chance to confront the group in person.


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[Assistant] If I do find them inside the club, I'm not sure what to expect.


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[Assistant] Most of the concert goers look like typical metalheads, but I do spot a few obscure neo-Nazi patches on some people's clothing.


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[Assistant] He has a direct relationship with Adam Waffen's intellectual leader, James Mason.


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[Assistant] In propaganda videos, Adam Waffens say that Mason disappeared for 15 years until they located him.


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[Assistant] They pose for photos with Mason dressed in a Nazi uniform and celebrate their collaboration.


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[Assistant] I'm unable to find a phone number for Mason, but I learn he's living in the Denver area.


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[Assistant] Mason has no online profile, no social media. He doesn't even appear to have an email account.


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[Assistant] He spent time in a Colorado prison for menacing someone with a pistol.


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[Assistant] A bankruptcy filing from a few years ago reveals a solitary life, working at Kmart and living alone.


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[Assistant] I tried to get him to talk about the killings and violence linked to Adam Waffen.


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[Assistant] What did you think of James Fields, the guy who allegedly drove his car into the crowd in Charlottesville?


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[Assistant] Mason has a lot more to say, the kind of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories I've come to expect from white supremacists.


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[Assistant] After decades of railing against the government, Mason says Trump is giving him hope.


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[Assistant] Before he allegedly stormed the synagogue, Robert Bowers posted on social media, writing about Jews helping immigrant invaders who were killing his people. Kathleen Ballew examined the posts.


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[Assistant] Retired FBI agent Brad Orsini is the Director of Security for the Jewish Federation of Pittsburgh.


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[Assistant] Even while Pittsburgh was grieving, he says neo-Nazi propaganda was appearing around the city.


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[Assistant] Orsini says even before the shooting, he had decided to take additional precautions.


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[Assistant] Pittsburgh is still mourning, and the questions it provokes still linger. Can these kind of killings be prevented?


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[Assistant] I now know the FBI is looking at Adam Waffen.


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[Assistant] Agents in several states have been talking with former members.


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[Assistant] And it turns out the Bureau is investigating Robert Bauer's relationship to two neo-Nazi brothers with connections to Adam Waffen.


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[Assistant] But what I've learned in my years covering white supremacist groups is that there are many, and they draw from a deep reservoir of ugliness in America.


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[Assistant] Just this month, the FBI announced hate crimes had spiked again, the third year running. This story is far from over.


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[Assistant] We didn't know any better. We were all from double A. I mean, eight of us were from double A, skipped over triple A because there were no players there. And I remember in August, Brett Butler said we need to vote on playoff shares.


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[Assistant] I work for the AA Springfield Cardinals in Springfield, Missouri and so I still watch a lot of AA baseball and there are no complete games.


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[Assistant] There are pitch regiments from the St. Louis Cardinals. If you pitch, if you throw over 20 pitches,


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[Assistant] Organizational wide. 20 pitches. Day off.


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[Assistant] No, I, and I, I'd never want to be that, you know, things were tough back then and we worked hard. These guys are bigger, they're stronger. You walk through a clubhouse now. Wow, that was an oldie.


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[Assistant] Uhm, they're bigger, they're stronger, but because they don't pitch as much, I think they, they get hurt easier. Yes.


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[Assistant] In Tucson, Arizona, we had, you know how now they have the stadium field, six full-size fields, two infield fields, covered batting cages. In Tucson, Arizona, it was at a city park in Tucson, and it was a stadium.


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[Assistant] Yeah, my first two years I would go to play winter league baseball in Venezuela and Puerto Rico where you can make more money than in the big leagues at the time. No kidding. What? Yeah.


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[Assistant] Minimum salary, my rookie year had just gone, went from $35,000 to $60,000. I said $40,000. Now it's what? $700,000? $750,000.


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[Assistant] You don't deserve that. I've been in the league five years, I'm only making 70. But the facilities now, like you said, in Goodyear, indoor conditioning, everything biometric.


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[Assistant] It's just when they phased out and started going in, everyone built that. You know, the Cardinals are in Jupiter and they have a shared, like with the Reds, they're with the Marlins.


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[Assistant] And the Cardinals was so outdated after spring training this year, they took the entire complex down to the ground.


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[Assistant] They just sat down for really no reason. If you're going to let a kid jump from double A to the big leagues.


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[Assistant] You know, I was with the Angels after I got traded from Cleveland, went to the Angels.


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[Assistant] I had three years there and then I was, you know, free agent. Didn't, they didn't resign me. A couple of teams said, well, if you'll sign, go to AAA till there's an opening.


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[Assistant] You know, after seven years you kind of think, I don't know, my kid, I have three daughters, they were at an age.


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[Assistant] You know where shoot, they were 10, eight and two. Yeah. And I became stay at home, dad, soccer coach, basketball coach.


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[Assistant] Great years. Loved it. Right. Good time to be at home with the girls. And then some buddies from college in Springfield, Missouri said, hey, we got this.


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[Assistant] Uh, over 30 baseball league. Will you come and play? No. And what would you say? No chance. No chance. Yeah. They kept asking. Then they said, Hey, we won. We're going to some tournament in Arizona. We're going to go out early and play golf for a few days. Okay. I'm in, go out and, um,


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[Assistant] Dan O'Brien Jr. Dan O'Brien was the GM here.


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[Assistant] It's all a little small world. And he, uhm, and his son was, I had gotten to know pretty well in Cleveland.


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[Assistant] Uh, Junior, he's now the assistant GM for the Rangers. Okay.


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[Assistant] So I go to Arizona, he texts me, I said yeah, I ask him to play golf. I can't play golf. He goes, but I'll come by the game tomorrow and we'll go grab a beer after the game. Perfect.


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[Assistant] He comes, I throw, I hadn't pitched it, I hadn't played catch in three years.


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[Assistant] And he goes, I'm telling you, Scott, you're throwing harder than you ever did in Cleveland.


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[Assistant] Which, to me, is not always the best thing in the world. You know, I think it takes away movement. And he goes, well here's my card, I'm telling you, and this was in November.


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[Assistant] And so I get home and a week later I'm having dinner and I pull out stuff and I go, hey, you joined my wife. I said, look,


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[Assistant] Uhm, late awake that night, thinking about it, called in the next morning, and I had this whole plan created. I said, how about this? Give me a month in Puerto Rico.


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[Assistant] I have two months to get in shape. He's like, no.


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[Assistant] No, I go, give me two months. I'll go down the month of January. If I really...


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[Assistant] The biggest thing was the game kind of, it was a different time in my life, and the game kind of slowed down for me.


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[Assistant] You know, being in the big leagues, not a big deal. Uhm, coming in a game with runners, you know, in scoring position in a late inning, not a big deal. You know, I, I knew I had my family, I had my kids at home.


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[Assistant] I was in good shape, and it was more enjoyable. I had more fun at the park every day. I probably took a lot better care of myself those last three years than the first six.


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[Assistant] I, I like all of it cause I like a nice pace of game. Who doesn't?


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[Assistant] The thing, you know how a few, like 10 years ago in hockey they started measuring the guy's pads?


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[Assistant] They're wearing these gloves. I see them in double A.


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[Assistant] And maybe, maybe slide feet first and don't wear the extender gloves.


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[Assistant] But back to the question, I love all the changes. Yeaah, I do too. I do, I think...


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[Assistant] And I'm like you, I would have never gone along thinking, you know, I'm an old dude, I like baseball the way it was a hundred years ago, but I love everything. I don't, I'm still not sold on the putting a runner on second base in the 10th inning.


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[Assistant] Springfield, Missouri. Yea, I went to college there, met my wife there, kids grew up there, and all three girls, for whatever reason, have moved to Colorado.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's all my fault. So now my wife wants us to move out there, and I go, I have no friends out there. Buddy Black is their manager, so at least I could score a ticket to a Rockies game, I'm sure.


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[Assistant] We do, uh, we televised 15 games. Uhm, I do the color commentary on those 15. Yea, it's fun. Uhm, we try and act like we're in St. Louis. We drink beer during the broadcast. Uhm, and I do 10 home radio and 10 road radio.


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[Assistant] And then I just help kind of the sales staff if they need to meet someone or...


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[Assistant] You know, open a door for them. Right. But real flexible. Yeah, right. Sure. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Uhm, this is called the, I gotta say, Guardians.


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[Assistant] Roommate, Johnny Farrell, who also managed in the big leagues. We had a bunch of managers off some really bad.


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[Assistant] A little Hargrove, he was the spring training before us. Hargrove, Farrell, Ron Washington, Buddy Black, and I think there's.


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[Assistant] But off a bad team, a lot of good coaches, I guess. It's funny, yeaah. It is, it's funny. But I, and then I come back for the, uhm, alumni, uhm, golf tournament. We used to do one with the Browns.


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[Assistant] The guy on our AA team with the Pirates, his name was Craig Brown, but everyone called him Crash.


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[Assistant] And so he had been, Crash had been released already out of AA baseball and was in the North Carolina area when they did a call for parts casting. Nice. Crash Brown, our Crash Brown star, you know, he looks good, good looking guy.


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[Assistant] 24 years old. He starts running around with Costner at night.


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[Assistant] And we'd have 50, 60,000 people for fireworks on July 4th down by the lake. And uh, so in the middle, which they would never do this now, middle of a major league game, we were supposed to stay in the dugout.


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[Assistant] In the bullpen, and then they ran actors out on the field, filmed it with a helicopter, and then the game resumed. Like an hour later.


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[Assistant] I don't know. I think everyone, I mean they don't even sign college pitchers that are 10 and 1 in college and give them a chance because they only throw 84 now. Right. And especially now. No chance.


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[Assistant] In double A, you know, the Springfield Cardinals, we can run in five guys in double A that alter 94 to 98.


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[Assistant] 1986, we had one guy on the team, if you can name him, that threw over 90.


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[Assistant] And now that's kind of a soft throw and right hander.


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[Assistant] You know, the way he shook out Trout in that game. Unbelievable. I mean, unhittable pitches.


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[Assistant] By the best hitter in Major League Baseball. Unhittable pitches. And Trout doesn't see unhittable pitches. He's kind of like Kirby Puckett. He'll swing at anything and hit it hard. There's no real place to pitch him. There's no scouting report. Here's how you get him out.


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[Assistant] You know, our report was always for Kirby Puckett was, uhm, you know, if you walk him, he only gets one bait.


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[Assistant] Cause he would, he'd swing from his ankles to his eyes.


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[Assistant] In all pictures, trying to tell you they were good hitters at one point.


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[Assistant] Good for making MLB managers, I guess. That's what we were good for.


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[Assistant] Marjorie, Ivermectin did not win a Nobel Prize. It can't. It's not a person.


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[Assistant] Quite the combination. That's just Tuesday. Well that's something, and if it's not that, well then it's probably the pilots not being piloted.


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[Assistant] Need you to step up and help Sean. I'm gonna have him focus on somebody else.


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[Assistant] We presented, uh, the military and committees in Congress, like the Armed Services Committees, with 130 profiles off of the National Socialist Movement's


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[Assistant] I never imagined that a story about low-income housing would lead me here, to an upscale resort in Costa Rica.


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[Assistant] Los Suenos is a dream world with fancy condominiums and private villas, a first-class hotel, golf course, and its own private marina.


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[Assistant] I'd come here because our investigation into the money spent to house the poor had taken us into a hidden world of secret bank accounts and shell companies.


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[Assistant] But I'm getting ahead of myself. To understand what brought me to Costa Rica, I have to take you back nine months earlier to where our story begins.


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[Assistant] Last year, we started spending time in Dallas, in neighborhoods like this where making rent has been getting more and more difficult.


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[Assistant] There are more than 40,000 evictions in Dallas every year.


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[Assistant] Over the past decade, average household incomes have declined, while rents have been rising.


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[Assistant] And that's pushing more and more people like Carla Powers to the edge.


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[Assistant] Like millions of Americans, Carla and her family are caught in the long wake of the 2008 financial crisis.


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[Assistant] Every year, the federal government spends nearly 50 billion dollars to help the poor with rent and get them on the road to better lives.


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[Assistant] Over the past year, we've been investigating the two key programs that try to do that to see whether they're working the way they should and why so many people are struggling.


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[Assistant] In Dallas and elsewhere, we kept hearing how the largest of the programs, Section 8 vouchers, covers just a fraction of those in need.


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[Assistant] When the vouchers are handed out, the response is overwhelming.


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[Assistant] We wanted to see how Section 8 would work out for three of the lucky ones in Dallas, which like many cities has a tight rental market.


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[Assistant] Farron Giles and her son have been staying at her ex-husband's apartment for the past two months.


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[Assistant] But even when working, she says it's been hard to find a place she can afford.


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[Assistant] Linda Higgins says one unexpected event upended her life, leaving her so distraught that keeping jobs has been difficult.


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[Assistant] Ciara has seven kids and was living in a shelter. But before that, she says they often lived here in her van.


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[Assistant] We kept in touch with Farron, Linda, and SeaArtist as they tried to find a place that would take their vouchers. They have up to 90 days, or they'll lose them.


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[Assistant] And what they're hoping for is one of the main goals of the Section 8 voucher program.


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[Assistant] The chance to move to neighborhoods with better opportunities.


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[Assistant] One of the hottest zip codes in Dallas is the northern suburb of McKinney.


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[Assistant] Three years ago, it was ranked the best place to live in America by Money magazine.


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[Assistant] Today the area is booming. New apartments are popping up everywhere.


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[Assistant] I was meeting a developer who's trying to bring more low income housing to the community.


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[Assistant] Some market rate, some at reduced or affordable rates, and some units set aside for Section 8 vouchers.


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[Assistant] But her plan hit a roadblock with the Frisco City Council.


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[Assistant] Some residents voice concerns about traffic. Others about overcrowding in their schools.


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[Assistant] A vote on whether to help Anderson get the money she needed was brought before the Frisco City Council in March of 2015.


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[Assistant] But even without local support, Anderson was able to line up loans and grants to move forward with construction. Then more problems.


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[Assistant] Have you ever seen anything like this in the years that you've been developing?


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[Assistant] Frisco city officials say they support affordable housing and aren't trying to stop Anderson's project. They just want her to comply with the city's building rules.


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[Assistant] Anderson complained to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, which is now investigating whether her project is being discriminated against.


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[Assistant] And a federal policies that divided our cities more than 80 years ago.


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[Assistant] Then, in the 1940s and 50s, the government bankrolled a mass migration to the suburbs.


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[Assistant] By the 1960s, the segregation and desperation boiled over.


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[Assistant] Within years, as conditions in public housing deteriorated, new alternatives were enacted, like Section 8 vouchers.


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[Assistant] Bouchers would help some of the poor pay their rent. But as old public housing projects came down, new affordable options were needed.


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[Assistant] And by the early 1990s, the government had launched a new construction program, relying on the private sector. It was called the Low Income Housing Tax Credit.


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[Assistant] The program would spur billions of dollars in private investment to remake the image of public housing.


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[Assistant] It would also open the door to a whole new set of players and politics.


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[Assistant] Back in Dallas, I met developers who were among the earliest to see opportunity in the new tax credit program.


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[Assistant] Together, Brian and Cheryl Potashnik became some of the most successful affordable housing developers in the country.


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[Assistant] They got their start in the neglected neighborhoods of South Dallas, areas where the demand for affordable housing was greatest, and the tax credit program was set up to help.


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[Assistant] Who sell them for cash to investors, mostly banks.


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[Assistant] The developers use the cash to help build apartment buildings. And because taxpayer money pays for most of it, they can charge the lower rents that are required.


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[Assistant] By the early 2000s, the Potashniks were making millions off their developments and looking for new opportunities beyond the inner cities.


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[Assistant] That site was in the northern suburb of McKinney. What kind of pushback did they get? Just get, hell no you can't come.


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[Assistant] Many argue that there was already enough low-income housing in the community.


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[Assistant] But Betsy Julian, a leading Dallas civil rights attorney, says she heard other reasons at a public hearing in McKinney in 2003. I went to the ladies room.


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[Assistant] The Potashniks tried to get around the opposition and negotiate a political deal.


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[Assistant] And their development plans to build in other communities that didn't want low income housing generated broader opposition. Soon Texas began requiring letters of support


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[Assistant] From local and state officials to help get tax credit deals done.


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[Assistant] What did that mean for the projects when you had to get a letter of support?


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[Assistant] The letters of support gave politicians more power to determine the fate of developments. So the Potashniks doubled down to try to get the political buy-in they needed.


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[Assistant] Getting those letters of support became a high-stakes political game, and in 2007, 14 people, including the Potashniks, were charged in a bribery and corruption scandal, the largest in Dallas City Hall history.


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[Assistant] It was a corruption case. You were accused of being in a pay to play situation.


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[Assistant] Nearly 20 states now rely on letters of support to help decide which projects to give tax credits to.


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[Assistant] Civil rights lawyers Mike Daniel and Betsy Julian say that's a major reason why so many projects end up in low-income neighborhoods.


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[Assistant] Why were the tax credit projects being put in low income areas?


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[Assistant] After examining the tax credit program, they calculated that more than 90% of family developments in Dallas have been built in high-poverty areas over a 25-year period.


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[Assistant] They filed a lawsuit against the state that went all the way to the Supreme Court and helped set standards for fair housing nationwide.


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[Assistant] And in 2014, they sued the Department of Treasury, claiming the tax credit program perpetuates racial segregation.


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[Assistant] That case is still ongoing, but it highlights challenges to affordable housing around the country and raises questions about whether the tax credit program is working as it's supposed to.


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[Assistant] Last November, I went to Chicago for an annual gathering of the tax credit industry.


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[Assistant] Bankers, brokers, law firms, consultants, developers, to put affordable housing deals together.


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[Assistant] Over the past 30 years, housing tax credits have helped build more than 2.5 million affordable units. The program costs about $8 billion a year, an amount that's been growing.


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[Assistant] And that lack of housing makes for a booming market.


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[Assistant] Stacey Nekes is a vice president for one of the largest brokers, or syndicators.


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[Assistant] The program is often described as a win-win. Poor people get good quality affordable housing, and the private sector makes money.


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[Assistant] With so many people struggling to find housing, we wanted to see how well the program's been working.


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[Assistant] We analyzed available data about the primary tax credits given out over the last 20 years. And here's what we found. From 1997 through 2014,


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[Assistant] The number of units produced has fallen from more than 70,000 to less than 59,000. But the program is costing taxpayers 66% more in tax credits. That's after adjusting for inflation.


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[Assistant] The estimated rise in construction costs only accounts for about half of that.


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[Assistant] We asked representatives of the tax credit industry about what we found and reached out to more than 20 top investor and syndicator firms. None would agree to an interview.


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[Assistant] But in written responses, the industry said that several factors have affected tax credit production.


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[Assistant] Such as the loss of other federal funding or soft subsidies and the increased cost of trying to help the poorest renters.


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[Assistant] They also claim the business is less profitable than it used to be.


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[Assistant] We took our findings to the group that represents the state housing agencies that oversee the program.


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[Assistant] Republican Senator Charles Grassley is investigating the program.


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[Assistant] Where we found a troubling story about the tax credit program.


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[Assistant] I met up with Michael Cox. He spent 15 years as an affordable housing developer.


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[Assistant] He showed me one of his prize projects, Lebray Place.


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[Assistant] South Florida is one of the tightest housing markets in the country, and developments like Lebray are much in demand.


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[Assistant] Cox had a partner in the project, the Carlisle Development Group.


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[Assistant] Carlisle was founded by Lloyd Boggio, a leader in Florida's affordable housing industry, and it was run by his partner's son, Matt Greer.


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[Assistant] Together, Carlisle and Cox's company, Biscayne Housing, became a powerhouse.


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[Assistant] Between 2006 and 2009, the two companies had more than a quarter billion dollars under development.


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[Assistant] Cox says he suspected Carlisle was cooking the books. He discovered documents about secret accounts.


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[Assistant] Carlisle's secret accounts would soon get the attention of federal prosecutors.


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[Assistant] Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin has spent nearly five years investigating the tax credit industry in South Florida.


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[Assistant] As Sherwin and his team dug into Carlisle and Biscayne's construction contracts, they discovered a kickback scheme.


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[Assistant] Carlisle used the inflated cost estimate to win more tax credits from the Florida Finance Agency.


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[Assistant] By the time they were done, investigators discovered the two companies stole $34 million from 14 projects.


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[Assistant] Nearly $2 million had been stolen from Lebray, the apartments for the homeless, and Michael Cox was a part of it.


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[Assistant] I wanted to ask them about where that $34 million went.


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[Assistant] Some of it was tracked back to Bogio's personal accounts. One was called Caesar and Cleopatra.


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[Assistant] Other kickbacks to Bogio, Greer, and Cox came through a cutout called SSHH Construction.


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[Assistant] Prosecutors trace some of the money back to Bogio's house.


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[Assistant] Ultimately, Bogey, O'Greer, and Cox pleaded guilty to crimes related to the kickback scheme.


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[Assistant] A scheme that had gone unnoticed by state housing officials for years.


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[Assistant] So the IRS is relying on the housing authorities.


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[Assistant] In Tallahassee, I went to see the man who was running the agency that oversees the tax credit program in Florida.


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[Assistant] The prosecutor in the case described, uh, the agency as a bit outmatched when it came to developers with millions of dollars and lots of resources. Do you think that's accurate?


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[Assistant] I'm trying to figure out if there are so few scandals incident because they're not happening or because they're so difficult to catch.


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[Assistant] So you feel like this is kind of a one-off or a bad apple.


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[Assistant] Some of the officials at Florida Housing say that this is a, this was a one-time thing, this was an aberration. Do you think that's true?


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[Assistant] Soon, the head of the Florida Housing Agency we'd interviewed would resign in scandal. And as we kept looking into the tax credit program here,


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[Assistant] A source in the development industry told us that DAX was being used to hide extra profits from Pinnacle projects.


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[Assistant] Uh, through a source that this was a, a company that didn't actually do any work.


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[Assistant] Turns out Sherwin did know about Pinnacle and Dax.


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[Assistant] Three months after our interview, he charged Dax with stealing federal tax credits.


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[Assistant] The company signed an agreement with prosecutors admitting it inflated costs by more than $4 million on four projects.


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[Assistant] It returned the money and paid a one million dollar fine.


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[Assistant] Under the deal, the charges will be dropped if the company continues to cooperate with prosecutors.


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[Assistant] And that's what took our investigation to Costa Rica. To see what Pinnacle was doing there.


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[Assistant] Dax said he wasn't a Pinnacle business partner. He said he was just a guide and a driver, and that they named the Shell company after him.


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[Assistant] They have a Costa Rican company called Caso Oasis.


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[Assistant] That company turned out to be a property right here in the secluded area of Los Suenos.


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[Assistant] At the top of the resort, I found Casa Oasis.


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[Assistant] It's their multi-million dollar private villa where they take vacations and we learned have taken bankers and syndicators.


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[Assistant] Last week, Florida's housing agency went to court to ban Pinnacle from affordable housing projects for two years, saying the company had used Dax to engage in fraud.


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[Assistant] Pinnacle declined our request for an interview but told us it would contest the ban and said it did not violate any state rules.


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[Assistant] Three developers in Florida were charged with stealing from the program. How can the housing finance authorities make sure that that's not happening in their backyards, in their states?


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[Assistant] Call an eight billion dollar tax program, a program of trust.


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[Assistant] The US attorney in Florida called this a, a program of trust. Do you think that's true?


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[Assistant] The tax credit industry told us that it supports more stringent auditing and doesn't tolerate fraud of any kind.


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[Assistant] Sherwin says he's now investigating other national developers, as well as bankers and syndicators.


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[Assistant] Last December, the Carlisle executives were sentenced. Lloyd Boggio received nearly five years in prison. Matt Greer, three years in prison. Michael Cox had to repay the millions he stole.


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[Assistant] And receive probation because of his work with the homeless and cooperation with prosecutors.


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[Assistant] The homeless people on the street because you were taking money that belonged to them.


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[Assistant] After digging into the tax credit program, this much is clear. There are a number of reasons why it's producing less affordable housing and costing more.


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[Assistant] But without strong oversight of the billions flowing through the private sector, it's hard to know exactly where it's all going.


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[Assistant] We wanted to ask officials at the Treasury Department about the tax credit program they run. They wouldn't agree to an interview.


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[Assistant] And officials at the Department of Housing and Urban Development, which runs the Section 8 voucher program, also declined.


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[Assistant] And had hoped to move to a neighborhood near work. But she wasn't having any luck using her voucher. Anywhere.


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[Assistant] In January, Farron ran out of time to use the voucher and gave it up. But she did find a place in Dallas Public Housing.


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[Assistant] We've been following families down in Dallas who've really struggled to use these vouchers. Why are they having such a hard time?


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[Assistant] Linda Higgins was unable to find a place that would take her voucher.


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[Assistant] When I caught up with sea artist Harris, she and her kids had gotten out of the shelter.


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[Assistant] The artist had been given extra time to use her voucher, but had given up on the prospect of moving out of her neighborhood.


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[Assistant] A place to sleep when she and her kids have nowhere else to go.


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[Assistant] Like millions of Americans, she is still trying to find a place she can afford to live.


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[Assistant] Today we're back with an old friend, Steven Lim, who's brought us to Bopo Mopo to introduce us to the next level world of boba in LA.


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[Assistant] Turns out this place was co-founded by YouTube OG Philip Wang from Wong Fu Productions. We're walking now?


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[Assistant] You have done though a lot of different cooking for Watcha. A lot.


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[Assistant] The problem is, pretty much every single time I try and cook anything, she'll come over, like, while I'm making it, and she'll be like,


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[Assistant] I'm with Mcnuggets is right. No. Y'all are wrong. Y'all are wrong. And then on top of that, you know, obviously, yeah, the offense is a be up and clicking and everything like that. But if, if, if at that time the, your, your standings is going to be what it's going to be, then it's nothing more, nothing less.


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[Assistant] Okay. I will say this, okay. Yeah. And my, my opinion means nothing to a lot of people, but I would say that Kansas City is the defending champs.


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[Assistant] They have, they've been running their division for quite some time. I think that our division, AFC North, has gotten significantly better.


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[Assistant] Because people got kids and they got families. So you, so if they play a West Coast team or a team like Kansas City. You'd stay out there. You'd be out there for a while. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?


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[Assistant] I'm gonna move my family to Europe for six months. Why not? No, probably better than the


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[Assistant] Wait a minute, did Tom Brady get the MVP the year he was suspended for the four games for Deflategate?


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[Assistant] I don't, I just think that he don't, will he ever be Houston Deshaun Watson again? I don't know because- He better be. Does he have to be like that good? Yes, better than that. He gotta be better than Houston to be successful.


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[Assistant] You can't win the AFC. Give me that when you, uh, hit a chance. It was, I think it was 19. No, I just wanted to hear the numbers. I just wanted to know.


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[Assistant] They need that guy. So 36 touchdowns and 7 picks. That's what they need. He throw for that. That's MVP right there.


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[Assistant] But they ain't gonna do that because Nick Chubb is still a factor here. See, Deshaun Watson didn't have a run game back in Houston. That's fine. He doesn't have to have those exact same numbers.


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[Assistant] What? I will say that the one, when they played the bingles on that Monday night, they were unbelievable. And I think, how many prime time games did they get last year? One or two.


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[Assistant] The worst, the worst trade in NFL history was Ricky Williams getting traded for the entire draft. No, that was a bad one.


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[Assistant] Anika, you know, you're being a golf legend. Talk about some of the things that you had to overcome, you know, being a female golfer. And is there any advice that you could give, you know, female golfers that's looking to follow your steps?


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[Assistant] I had some popcorn that day, you know, and it was hot. You know, my hands were sweaty. I was, this was actually my first time.


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[Assistant] Swinging on a live golf course. I did top golf a lot, like, like two times before this, but this was the first time I was live in action. And that was my first swing ever. And yeah, that's, you know, that's how I went.


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[Assistant] She did. She was pretty appalled by that. She looked at it and said, you know what, the technique is there. I see the potential. If, like I say, bull, if I hit it, that's, and let me, that's the thing. Like after, when I start make contact with the ball after that happened, cause that wasn't the end, I got it on the green. That my last,


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[Assistant] If you go, if I'm about to lose, I don't want my kids. I took my son to see wrestling. What's the difference? It's fake. You stop saying that. That's not fake. It's scripted. It's not that either. It's 1000% real. Okay.


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[Assistant] Uhm, what I was, what I was saying, what I was saying is, do I care?


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[Assistant] Yeaah. It's nice. It's a feather in his cap. Yeaah. I mean, it's, it shows that his, his stock is going upwards. Obviously, you know, we would like for him to be better offensively. And I think the real test would be once he bulks up, you know, and, and will he be better without Jared out? Can he hold the fort down without Jared out?


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[Assistant] Like I said, can he hold the fort down without Jared Allen? Can he be the main guy? Well, you guys are convinced he's gonna be gone, Jared Allen? That's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is, I think it's a better lineup out there that could be put on the floor.


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[Assistant] We knew that. We knew that. We knew that our bench wasn't that great. We thought Keris Laverte would be that and he had the one game where he did that. But it's funny to me, if you look at the teams that's still playing, I'd say like three or four of them.


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[Assistant] All have seven footers that bring, can bring the ball up. You think it's, you think it's something, I was cheating cause the Suns guy, Kevin Durant. Right. But you think the Joker guy can do it. Bam can do it. And B can do it.


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[Assistant] Steph got, got with Clay, they got with Draymond, and they all got better. If you look at the Cavs, you got a DG, you got a Donovan, you got a Evan.


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[Assistant] So don't tell, so they don't tell, well they got LeBron and AD, so that's. Yea, and obviously those guys are healthy right now.


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[Assistant] But Mark Jackson started. Yes, he did.


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[Assistant] The only reliable person off the bench has been Jetty.


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[Assistant] Is Chris Paul playing? Is Chris Paul back in the lineup? No. I don't think he's playing. Okay.


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[Assistant] I swear I didn't play, we played. What did I read earlier? We played, uh, Kent State. We played Western Michigan.


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[Assistant] Oh, yes, we did. We played Virginia Tech. Yes, we did.


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[Assistant] Well, don't get me wrong. Nine strikeouts is impressive, but I'm with you. I mean, first of all, it was Detroit and Detroit is like the 24th best batting team in the thing right now. So they're down. Obviously we're down. See Kivus did some homework. I screwed up and did not.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but I mean, I would like for him, if they're gonna try to clown back and be one of these teams, he's gonna have to be that Cy Young guy that we used to see. And if this is the start of it, then great, but I need to see it against better competition.


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[Assistant] Well, you're the one that you said your prediction before the season was that the Blue Jays was going to beat the Guardians in the ALCS. Yeaah. Right. I don't think you're standing on that.


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[Assistant] McNuggets, what's the, what's the least amount of, what's, what team won a World Series hitting the least amount of home runs?


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[Assistant] So what, so recent history, 162 is where we need to be.


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[Assistant] No, I think if he's clear and he's not, you know, in this situation where he's involved in that situation and they're saying that he's good, then he should be able to play football and continue his life. I mean, if it comes out that, you know, she


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[Assistant] Falsely accused him of being in this situation. I don't see why he should be punished for that. No, he shouldn't. He did nothing wrong. He should be good to go and play football and do whatever he want to do and there shouldn't be anybody.


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[Assistant] I mean, I'm not, that's something totally different, but what I'm saying is that if he's not brought up on these charges and none of that has anything to do with him, I don't see why his life should be at a halt because of that. He's innocent.


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[Assistant] Pretty much. I mean, they give you so many lectures on it, you know, throughout the college, throughout the NFL, there's so many people that come in to talk to you to the point where it was just like, I remember being in college and, you know, this person was giving an example. It's like basically they were saying like, if you slept with a woman,


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[Assistant] And the next morning, if she didn't feel right, then she could take you in.


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[Assistant] And they was, we was sitting there like, so if everything went good and then the next morning, like she just said no, then that you will go down for that. And I just, it's kind of unfair at times, but you know, it's just, you just gotta be careful who you dealing with. And that's the thing. You gotta be wise in your decision making.


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[Assistant] I take em. Absolutely. If the browser was to make this trade, it would tell me one thing. Drone forward ain't ready. Because they're essentially the same people.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's redundant. You getting, you got the younger version of him already on your roster. I mean, he was a wide receiver when he first came into the game. They say, they talk about how Jerome Ford catches out the back, you know, unbelievably so. Right. You're literally doing it.


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[Assistant] If Cordero Patterson, does he got history with Kevin Stefanski in any way? Did he play?


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[Assistant] If you was to bring them in as a, as just a returner. But then they got, well I guess Grant might not be here. If they bring, if, if Nick Chubb went down and Jerome


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[Assistant] No, no, I'm saying it. So it, so if Nick Chubb went down, you would just automatically start Cordero Patterson. I well, I mean.


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[Assistant] I said that and people scolded me when I said that. I said the offensive line is really good. But that wasn't the case last year because Kareem Hunt never got loose.


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[Assistant] They would be, they would, they would alternate. I think I'll play 16.


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[Assistant] Some of us sit on this side of the glass, and some people sit on that side of the glass over there. And Steve, Director Steve, not VP Steve, cause he's the man, but Director Steve,


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[Assistant] I don't know what his beef is with me. He likes to take everything I say and try to make it like I'm wrong and everything and it's hilarious because like yeaah, look at him.


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[Assistant] Although we have all the fun, I tell you what, the first day I did this show, cause I was on the first episode of this show.


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[Assistant] And we was kind of going over, you know, the rundown. We was doing the rundown upstairs.


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[Assistant] I remember VP Steve was like, don't let them bully you. You get in there and you make sure you get your thoughts off. And I'm like, okay. So we go through the show.


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[Assistant] And it was just the natural feeling, like we all just flowed and


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[Assistant] You know, Mark, when you play, you know, I remember just watching you guys and in the Eastern Conference at that time, you know, it was almost like the best of the best. There was, you know, the Cavs were sandwiched in between.


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[Assistant] Can you kind of compare that and contrast it to how you would go in every single year not really knowing who was going to be a team from year to year that could give you a really tough time?


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[Assistant] You know, uh, Mark, you brought up Evan Mobley as a defensive player.


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[Assistant] Uhm, you know, on the first team, all defense. Now, we've talked about it. You've been a great shooter. You're shooting over five threes a game, right? Back then, that was insane. Uhm, you also have been in shooting coaching. You've also been in coaching.


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[Assistant] Uhm, we talk about Evan Mobley as a guy to really unlock what the Cavs can really be. Uhm, for him to have, develop a, a, a three point shot, develop something where he can potentially be in the low or high thirties, uh, low forties, uh, to get, you know, the Cavs to be where they need to go.


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[Assistant] Do you think a player is either intrinsically given a gift to just be able to shoot?


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[Assistant] Or as a coach, do you think you could possibly unlock some of those shooting ability inside a player who traditionally hasn't been a three-point shooter?


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[Assistant] Mark, uhm, I like to highlight people from different eras who, who maybe the fans don't really kind of know about, right? Uhm, you know, when you play against, when you have the opportunity to see pros play,


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[Assistant] Uhm, sometimes on TV you don't understand how, just how good and skilled even the 9th or 10th guy on the bench is.


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[Assistant] That you, uh, had a very difficult time with or you just played with and was like, man, this guy is so freaking awesome. Like do you have any other name or two of guys that may be underrated that, uh, that were really, really skilled, but people may not give them their just do.


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[Assistant] There you go. Yeah, well, that's a good one there. That's a very good one. I'll take that. Well, I got a couple.


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[Assistant] There it is. So I had another squad down there too, but my first choice was the Colts. And the reason that I picked the Colts is a lot like my man right here, Jason.


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[Assistant] If it's going to be another backup quarterback, I don't even know what their coach is talking about. So they got all of the new stuff. I like to catch a young rookie quarterback. I like to catch rookie coaches and I like to catch teams that's kind of in turmoil. So I look at that game as a game where.


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[Assistant] You've got all the right ingredients and you want to get off to a quick start. And I think if you look at the rosters, you look at the Browns, yes, they've retooled the defense, but I think that defense is going to get some experience. They do got a running game in Indianapolis, but


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[Assistant] I think that's a game Mcnuggets and the Browns would love to see on the schedule, given the fact that they, they have an experience level. Um, and it just, I think they're just a better overall team. And I think that's a, give opportunity for Deshaun Watson to get off to a fast start.


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[Assistant] Motion, he'll do, uh, uh, split action. He'll even run a little bit of read option. And I think Trey Lance will be running some of that. If he's the quarterback of it, a party is not available and you not only stress yourself, you know, defensively trying to stop that run game, but


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[Assistant] When you talk about on offense and the Browns going against the 49ers defense, I mean, they're top 1-2 defense in the whole entire league, besides the Philadelphia Eagles. You got Bolsa. They just signed Hargrave. Just signed Hargrave. So, man, that's a tough way to start.


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[Assistant] Mmmm, dear crystal ball, am I gonna marry this person or not?


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[Assistant] I wouldn't mind a third, I wouldn't mind a week three game. A week three, 49ers, a week four. Like, they still ain't gonna have the quarterback back. And if they starting off really slow, like there could be like some little bit of turmoil. What are you guys doing over here? So yeah, I would.


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[Assistant] It was, it was, it was so bad. I was on, at the time, I was just doing like, Brown's content.


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[Assistant] And I remember getting into it with these 40 diners fans and being like, yo, y'all was at the same place we was a year or so ago. Y'all ain't really that good. And then all of a sudden,


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[Assistant] I was going back and forth and I, I, I've never, that, it was my first mini viral little episode because it was like all of these, these 49ers fans was like, yeah, you idiot. And from that point on time, the 49ers have always been good. Like, but they smoked us. It was the game.


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[Assistant] It was Scottish, Scottish Hammer, like he just takes the ball, he starts running, gets it blocked, it was...


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[Assistant] Well, he picked two. Yeah, I threw two out there.


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[Assistant] I say, if Adam the Bull can have two bats, I can have two picks.


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[Assistant] Home versus, I'll take home. My nightmare was at the Bengals.


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[Assistant] And you lose that game, you're basically down two.


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[Assistant] You already down two games in a division. Like, so I don't like to have that hanging over your head. Now if you can win that game, that's a big thing. That's huge if you can win it. Because you now say we won in our division against probably the better, best team in the division. I just think the comparisons,


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[Assistant] The second point I don't like is the comparison between Joe Burrow and Deshaun Watson, right? If Joe Burrow comes out and he's ready to go and he's throwing the ball all over the park, you're going to have a direct comparison to what Deshaun Watson is doing in that game. And this is year two.


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[Assistant] Everybody's going to be counting, right? There's no more excuses. There's no excuses. So now Deshaun Watson versus Joe Burrow, people are going to be expecting, okay, well, can you keep up with Joe Burrow? Can you go touchdown for touchdown? Answer or drive? Maybe bring your team back late. So, you know, like you said, you want answers.


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[Assistant] With that game, oh, you're gonna get answers right now. And it has some, some, some.


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[Assistant] There's a lot on the line. It's magnified a little bit because it's a division game.


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[Assistant] I would, to me. There's no perfect answer. There's, well, even the question is kind of loaded because you gotta think about it.


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[Assistant] You really never know from year to year what a team's gonna be. So on paper, you may see a team that is supposed to be a give-me-win. Let's go back to last year and compare it contrast.


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[Assistant] And now you got the Jets. That was supposed to be a game you win. And instead of you winning the game going away like it seemed like in the fourth quarter, you let them come back, they beat you in a catastrophic meltdown, and now you're one and one.


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[Assistant] Pittsburgh beats them later in that year, and Pittsburgh actually finishes ahead of the Browns, right? Because they lost early in the year, they figure out the quarterback situation. So even if you start, right, if you start with supposed gimme games,


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[Assistant] What happens is if you lose some of those gimme games, now the thing is, oh snap, and our schedule after the bye week is crazy hard. So now it's a psychological thing where, hey, and not only did we never recover, I think the team always thought about that Jets game. They're like, hey, we are, how many, we're one win away from being


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[Assistant] Uhm, they had a bunch of people off the practice squad. We've already lost to the Jets when we should have won. Now you're sitting there at two and two and you feel sick. Now if it was two and two against really good teams, it's different. Like wow, we got some other stuff that we can do.


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[Assistant] Man, you, damn, that was a good ass point, Jason. It's crazy because...


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[Assistant] We say it all the time, I'll be saying, oh, you know, this guy gotta go, this person has to go. But, we gotta really think about it, like, you gotta really internalize, we've been through this before.


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[Assistant] That's the worst case scenario. If you, if they gotta get another coach.


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[Assistant] We know how this thing looks. If they got it. So now you're talking about another coach.


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[Assistant] Your quarterback is in another system. Now you're talking about the philosophy of how you want to draft because the general manager could be there. Do you want to go from a 4-3 to a 3-4? Is it the right philosophy? Should Deshaun be playing in it? It's just brutal.


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[Assistant] I think it wouldn't even come down to those guys asking. I just think when you, when you start over like that.


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[Assistant] The new regime's gonna come in and say, okay, well, we just gave up our first three, first round picks for my, uh, for Deshaun Watson. How can we get those back? All right, well, what's Miles Garrett's worth? What's Joe Batonia worth? What's Nick Chub worth? Like, it becomes one of those fire sale things, and then you kind of end up with a situation


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[Assistant] Like the Rams. Like, but we don't have the championship to show for it.


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[Assistant] And so what I say, I just give you a disclaimer about that. Even if I say this is not working, trust me, that's the last thing anybody should want to do. And if I'm right about that, no.


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[Assistant] And I'm just tall enough where you can still see my face. Like yeah, I could be like, yeah, you still see it. But yeah, I see what y'all talking about. By the way, the tires look crazy. Tires do look awesome. I can't wait to plug them in.


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[Assistant] Though, see linemen are different, so I'll give you, I'll give you a case in point.


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[Assistant] So usually people don't understand that the linemen are secluded. Like the linemen, O-line hangs with the O-line, D-line hangs with the D-line, and offensive linemen


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[Assistant] Pretty much, to me, Office Alignment will probably be the smartest guys on the team, on the team. Like, they are quirky a little bit, they're homebodies, they, they like to be at home, they do, like they value, if they're gonna do something, they'll get together, because if you're Office Alignment,


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[Assistant] You and, you and hand to hand combat every single day. So there's no reason for you to even be on that trip. Joe Petonio does not want to go to Puerto Rico and sit out there with his beard. What are you going to do there? He'd rather be at the house. Some of these guys, you know, Taylor is probably on a farm somewhere hanging out.


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[Assistant] They're not, they're not doing that. Like, so even if he did invite them, they would graciously say,


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[Assistant] I'm going to bow out of this one. Have fun. All they're going to be doing is doing 707 and watching films and cutups anyway. So it's not like, it's not, it's not the same. Like O Lyman don't want to go to that. Yep. D Lyman don't.


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[Assistant] Because this is the thing about a new offense. I hate new offenses because there's always a built-in new offensive excuse. Well, you know, the Browns changed the way they, they, they want to, you know, philosophically look at the offensive side of the football. They're not as running as much. There's not as much play action.


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[Assistant] And if it struggles, you're like, well, it's going to take time, which guess what? It is going to take a little bit of time, even though I'm a very impatient person when it comes to certain things like that. However, my hope is you and Safanski have been around each other.


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[Assistant] You and Safanski and the offensive coordinator have your basic bread and butter stuff down. So now guess what? Safanski can't bring them in during OTAs or during their time off and go over routes, but you can. So hopefully you got the basic playbook and you're running through that. So by the time you get to camp,


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[Assistant] He's just, he remembers all kind of stuff and his safeties and this is over here. Like he's very impressive on the whiteboard. So hopefully he's getting those guys down there and working on this new playbook that Jason Lloyd talks about all the time.


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[Assistant] Oh, no, no, no. He's, he's, he's over the top spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should- Literally.


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[Assistant] Do you, because we sat there and we watched the Super Bowl. And when you say offense, right, new offense.


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[Assistant] The, the little corks and screws that go off in your mind, you start to say, Andy Reid offense?


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[Assistant] And I don't think, I don't think it's gonna be that. Like, when you say a new offense, what is that evoking your mind as to what they possibly will run?


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[Assistant] Doing well. You know, uh, you know, Dave, um, Steve Becker hit me up, he said, uh, I said, you know, Dave's acid was, uh, my former teammate. He was like, shut up.


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[Assistant] You know Dave Zastidou. So apparently you are a rock star to, to, to our, uh, Steve Becker down in, uh, in Atlanta. And I say, yeah, man.


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[Assistant] You know, Zee, uhm, you, people out there know, I mean, you were a great athlete, like, even, even at, uh, at OU, we, we had these clean combos, and I'm like, man, they had all these, put three push press, ether, uh, coach ether Reeves would have us do.


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[Assistant] We didn't even have, we didn't even bench like that. We was like, no, we don't bench, we power clean. Like he was an Olympic guy and Z used to put up some weight on the power clean. I'm like, man, that's the dog on corner.


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[Assistant] Before you got to, uh, before you got to OU, uhm, when did you, did you play any other positions besides that and what were those positions? And when did you kind of know like, okay, you could punt at a high level and you could, you could probably go to college for punting. When did that kind of hit you?


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[Assistant] You know, Z, there's a guy out there, uh, Matt Razor from, uhm, from San Diego State.


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[Assistant] Obviously he's been embroiled in a lot of different things. Uhm, it looks like, uhm, you know, he was accused of some things about assault, but looks like those things have been retracted and he's been vindicated. They call him the punt god.


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[Assistant] Now, I don't know if you've had a chance to watch him play or if you've scouted him coming out of San Diego State. Uhm, if you could kind of give us his skillset and what makes him so, so good, that'd be awesome. And on top of it,


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[Assistant] If you're a punter, right, and the mentality of a punter, right, uhm, when you are, you guys are kinda secluded, you guys wanna do your own thing, you're off to yourself,


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[Assistant] How difficult would that be in the media if you had to answer questions all the time in the media? Because it seems like special teams guys do not answer questions. There's nothing to talk about. You guys just kick and you do your thing. How difficult would that be if you had to communicate and talk about with the media all the time?


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[Assistant] And get that level of attention and still try to do your job.


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[Assistant] As the philosophy of which they built their team. It always just seems like their ceiling is...


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[Assistant] Alright, they can get past the wild card, get to the second round, and they can kind of compete during, at that point. Like, they can compete, it'll be difficult to win a series in the second round against a team, uhm, like the Astros or the Yankees, or teams like, of that ilk that can put the ball in the stands. I think,


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[Assistant] If you go back and you listen to everything we've said.


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[Assistant] In the beginning, I think, go back to spring training. And I think there was a time where it was Jason, Bull, and Jay on.


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[Assistant] And yeaah, yeaah, I don't think nobody else taught baseball besides them. Like there might be a couple dudes, Andre not, but he's at the game. Like yeaah, right. So uhm, but no, you heard them talk about it.


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[Assistant] A couple of people who are going to fall back and regress to the moon.


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[Assistant] When you have a bunch of players that played well, lights out.


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[Assistant] And they were giving you, uh, Oscar Gonzalez was giving you moments in the playoffs where he was hitting game-winning home runs. Uh, Rosario was giving you solid at bats and getting clutch hits. Kwan was doing it all year long.


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[Assistant] When you look at that team and they were so scrappy last year and everything worked out well.


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[Assistant] There was always going to be a chance that two or three of those guys did not play well this year. And guess what? You got a couple. Oscar Gonzalez is down in the minors. Triple A. Triple A. Uh, you know, uh, Miles Straw was batting well at the beginning of the year. He's come back down to earth. You don't have the power numbers. And then on top of it, what really hurts is if you are a Guardians team that need


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[Assistant] How much of a leeway do you have to get behind a team like Minnesota? Like, I think they'll be there all year, but my question is, are they going to be able to beat anybody from the AL East? I don't think so.


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[Assistant] They've, obviously when you see a team like this, they've been awesome at figuring out pitching. They've been awesome of getting the arms developed for them, bringing them up at the right time, not too early, not too late.


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[Assistant] So why is there not a philosophy? Can you not do that with hitting? You have a lot of left hand bats. From an organizational structure, can't they just focus and say, hey listen, we are looking to develop?


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[Assistant] Power-hitting right-handed players or are those guys unicorns in baseball and they don't fall off the tree?


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[Assistant] I would have put Lucas second team, given the fact that, you know, he didn't even make the playoffs in a regular season. Kyrie and him didn't really turn out to be much, and I thought Donovan Mitchell


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[Assistant] For, if you just, if you can cut it out of your mind, the playoffs and just be like, okay, that never happened. I think everybody would go into it thinking and understanding, oh, this dude is definitely first team on NBA because of what he did. I mean, he had back, I mean, first of all, he had 71.


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[Assistant] Uh, back to back, like I think three or four games of 40 points or more. Uhm, and, and the fact that I think, and this is another thing too that we gotta take in consideration is, this guy,


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[Assistant] Put up some of the best numbers of his career and playing with a team. He just got here in the summer.


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[Assistant] It wasn't like, like he had two or three years to play together. Like he played that well and mixed in with Daris Garland and did not have, this is his first year doing it. So if you take all those things in consideration, I think he should have been first team on all NBA. But at the end of the day, I don't got a problem with it because


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[Assistant] You gotta earn that, like, for the Cavs, and no one's gonna give them any awards. I think Evan Mobley got robbed for...


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[Assistant] You know, two things, like I think, you know, a rookie of the year, as well as defensive player of the year. However, until the Cavs get to a point where they can come out and earn the respect of everybody else. Cause like you said, with Mark Price.


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[Assistant] People thought, like, people say that these calves are soft. And so they're not gonna give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes up to awards and those things. So uhm, maybe he uses that as a flame to the, to the fire, but I think he should have been first team.


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[Assistant] He's been in the league five years. He's grandfathered in. Like, Jokic is, you know, you grandfathered in. It's like, you can't go back now. So, like right now, Evan Mobley is probably going to be on an all defensive team.


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[Assistant] All the time now, just because you got, you made it that first time. You're the youngest player to ever do it. So now you kind of grandfathered it in. And I don't have a problem with it.


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[Assistant] To me, man, it's just, it's just messed up. I knew this before, but dang.


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[Assistant] Man, it's a difference. This levels to it, bro. Even if you just watch the playoffs, it even diminishes these awards. Because if you ask me who the best player, I'd be arguing to tell you probably LeBron. Who's the best? Who's the best?


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[Assistant] Ridiculous. Yeah, it's, it's, it's different, like. And so, you know.


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[Assistant] I, I look, you know, Mark said that, you know, Mowgli can do 16 or, you know, get 16 and 10. And I, you know, I love Mark Price, but if they want to go where they want to go at, like,


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[Assistant] Their, their, their eggs are in that Ebon Mobley basket, and that Ebon Mobley basket has to be 23, 24, and that consistent 12.


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[Assistant] Well, or, you know, as a, here's what I like to do. You know, if the Cavs, if the Cavs want to get to where they're going, I really believe that like,


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[Assistant] I heard Draymond Green say something. And Draymond Green was talking about how, you know, younger players that come in.


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[Assistant] They, they think about their own game, right? They think about what I need to do, how I need to do it. He said, but the philosophy with the Golden State Warriors is, is when young players like Jordan Poole or, or even other guys like that come in or Wiggins, we, we preach, hey, this is where Klay like the ball.


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[Assistant] Hey, this is where Steph like it on the pick and roll. What ways can I get it to him? How we gonna push? These are the areas, right? And he said, for a lot of young players, it takes time to understand. Why would you do that? He said, because.


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[Assistant] If you can get the ball to them in their spots that they like, that sets up the offense. Everything we do comes off of that.


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[Assistant] That is a philosophy that the organization is preaching. So at some point you have to sit down and I would think it would be JB and whoever in the front office sitting down with Darius and Mitchell saying, look,


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[Assistant] This guy right here is, is the key. We ain't got no money to get nothing else. We ain't got, I mean, ain't no savior coming.


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[Assistant] But we got a guy we think can turn into something special.


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[Assistant] But we gotta change the way we play. We gotta figure out a way to make it where.


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[Assistant] If he's the primary focus of what we trying to do, it'll make everybody's life different. And you'll get, you'll get further along the way instead of having these inflated empty numbers. Cause 28 for him and 23 for, for, for Derek's Garland. I don't, I don't think that's moving the needle.


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[Assistant] Tim Duncan was the best player on that team for a long period of time, right?


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[Assistant] But then he, then at one point in time, he had to say Tony Parker is that guy.


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[Assistant] And then after he got to Tony Parker, what really extended their career was, they got Kawhi Leonard. And you look at those games against, they played against the Miami Hukes, Jason.


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[Assistant] It was the Kawhi Leonard coming out party that really extended and was able to get the Spurs over the hump because now they had a guy who was not just going to be a defensive guy. You had to guard Kawhi Leonard. And that really opened up for people.


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[Assistant] He calls it when the ball is on the opposite side of the top of the key, and they haven't even went to down screen yet. It was just like, nah, he's right here, switch over here, we gonna slide to the corner. Like, that's just the reason, that's the reason why, you know, I don't, we don't ever need to get into the conversation. The reason why


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[Assistant] To me, it's not even close to he's the best player. It's the first of all, the longevity, the basketball IQ, and the fact that once again, when you think he's dead, he wills a bunch of guys.


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[Assistant] That is not good by themselves as individuals, but as a team put together, he just carries these dudes.


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[Assistant] I'm anxious to see what, if AD can't play, what LeBron James shows up. Is it the LeBron I gotta get 50 or is it the LeBron I trust people because I trust in the man I'm at home.


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[Assistant] Shout out to my mom for Mother's Day and my, uh, my, uh, sister-in-law, Mylene. Happy Mother's Day.


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[Assistant] They're being put there because it's easier to do. There won't be any opposition to it. And you don't have everybody mad at you. Uh, you get your deals done.


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[Assistant] I enjoyed looking through your entries and was impressed with the strategies that some of you devised. The 3 you see here are the fastest times. Congratulations to DubzNova for a time of just under 47 seconds, putting him in 3rd place, earning him 3 clickpoints.


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[Assistant] Pipping him to 2nd place by a third of a second was Kambo, who enthusiastically uploaded 5 attempts and posted them in a number of places.


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[Assistant] It was apparent that he had worked on a number of different strategies, even finding a way of smuggling grenades into the second level. Have 4 klikpoints for your effort. The winner is a name that I'm going to butcher and I regret trying to pronounce it even before I've said it. Well done to Huelstrand for an excellent 42 second time.


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[Assistant] Two clickpoints for you as well. And lastly, a clickpoint for AsianBoo and Cookiepocalypse, both of whom dedicated countless attempts to the course. I didn't watch your entire videos but anybody who wants to,


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[Assistant] Feel free. Cookiepocalypse, please upgrade your potato computer. You deserve better. And this concludes the Duragon Eremine speedrun challenge. I also awarded Blazor911 5 clickpoints for cheating and admitting to it, potentially saving this entire challenge from being a collection of misleading screenshots. From now on, challenges will require video proof from the word go. I'll end with my best time for anybody who's interested.


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[Assistant] I have to, uh, I have a little wager going on today that I will not be laughing for the entire episode of this show. So, I'm locked in today. Locked in. No giggling, nothing.


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[Assistant] Oh, well, you know, basically we was upstairs before the show and, you know, I was sitting there saying, I forget what the conversation was, but I was like, I could definitely do a show and not laugh. And they was like,


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[Assistant] Steve goes, oh I'll bet on that. I got a dollar for you on that. I'm like...


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[Assistant] The thing about this, as I explained to them before, you wasn't here yet, but this is what happened.


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[Assistant] The successful people in life have self-control and self-discipline. If I want to be successful, like that's all it takes. Like I can control my laugh. Like I don't, you know, like I said, I'm by the book today. I'm corporate America today. Shirt and tie.


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[Assistant] It's sad, it's sad that people don't believe in me. You know what? I thrive off of it though. Thrive off of it.


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[Assistant] See the thing, the thing about me, McNugget, is that I have an old soul, so like...


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[Assistant] I typically do things like as an older person would. So when I get older, I'll still be doing the same thing. So people be like, are you young? That's cause it's like, I've been doing this all my life. So that's it. It's all, it's all you. Did you really?


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[Assistant] What a problem with today's dating is, it's such a, it's a false narrative of what's going on out there. Everybody thinks that you're supposed to take trips all the time, you're supposed to wine and dine, you're supposed to have all the top designers and they're supposed to provide this for you.


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[Assistant] Everybody ain't ballin' like that, you know. It's a, it's a recession out here, you know. And it's one of those things that, it's, you can't put a price on love, you know. If you, you, you want somebody that cares for you, that's gonna be there for you, not for what they can do for you. And that's the confusion that we got in today, is everybody wants to know, what can they do for me? I tell you what, man, you know, I shout out to you.


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[Assistant] Listen, I had my fun in college and then I met my wife and that was it.


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[Assistant] So you gotta, you gotta hit a, you know, nevermind. Don't worry, don't worry about it, you know. It's for the younger culture.


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[Assistant] Absolutely, I think he was very effective on short yardage last year and on the goal line. I mean, is he a guy that's gonna come in, is he gonna be the Zeke from 2016 or 2017 or whatever year, the years that he was leading the league and rushing? No, I don't think that's there anymore.


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[Assistant] I think that, you know, Dallas did so, did a number on him, you know, giving him the ball 30 times, a kind of war tour on his body.


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[Assistant] Uhm, I think that he can definitely still be effective in the NFL. Uhm, I don't think he's in every down back. I think he is a guy that can come in.


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[Assistant] I'm fine, let me go on record and say I'm fine with Jerome Ford, that's the number two for right now.


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[Assistant] Because to me, he does things that, you know, Nick Chubb might not do. You know, to have that pass catcher out of the backfield, which...


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[Assistant] You know, last year coming out of training camp, that's all. Oh my goodness. Jerome Ford catching the ball out the backfield. Oh, it's going to be great.


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[Assistant] So he brings that element to them. I mean if they want to go to a more past happy offense, which we


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[Assistant] After Nick Chubb, I think then you'll have to explore.


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[Assistant] Going to get another runner back like an Ezekiel Elliott or even a Kareem Hunt. Kareem Hunter probably be the easier choice.


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[Assistant] Because you don't have to teach him nothing. He knows the playbook and he understands the culture that you're setting. He's been effective here with the Cleveland Browns before, so I think he would be that choice. Zeke might cost you a little bit extra dollars just because of who he was, but I think that's something that they have to explore once the season starts.


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[Assistant] I think you have to get a big name or somebody that you know can get the job done so that Ezekiel Elliott, Kareem Hunt, Mark Ingram, all those guys are fine with you.


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[Assistant] How many runner backs they going to season with? Three on the roster, right? Usually three. Okay, and what a problem with it is, if, so say they do go out and get an Ezekiel Elliott, Mark Ingram, Kareem Hunt. The problem is, if you're not the starter, you have to have some, some help on special teams. Facts.


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[Assistant] None of them three names that I just told you is doing anything on special teams these days because they're up there in age and their body's not going to allow them to. Jerome Ford will be your return man, of course, but the other one is just going to sit there. So you gotta, now you're using up another spot on game day because it's 53 and then I think what 49 or 48 dressed for the game. You're using up a spot.


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[Assistant] For a guy that potentially might not even touch the field and that's a problem. So that's where the issue comes in with those top three names.


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[Assistant] We gotta make a decision there. Well, I mean, if they're keeping three on the roster anyways, then that's fine. Just one of them will probably be inactive. But the way, what y'all are talking about, listen, if Nick Chubb is healthy the whole season, then this whole thing is irrelevant.


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[Assistant] We talking about if Nick, if potentially if Nick Chubb has to sit out a game or two, then you need somebody in. I'm totally fine. Cause then Zeke will come in and him and Jerome would, which they would be a running back by committee. So he don't need to be on special teams cause Jerome Ford already is doing the special teams and he's going to take the bulk of the carries. So be clear.


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[Assistant] Well I mean at the same time, the play call had to be that.