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[Assistant] I feel like he was always trying to look to make a move at times where I want to go, uh, I think you guys can beat this guy around the edge. He knows how to use his hands a little bit, but not so much to where I'm like, oh god, the guy's like a fifth year veteran already, right? It's just like the basic moves of using your hands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Phenomenal player all around. You know, definite top 20 pick in my opinion. I mean, if he falls outside the top 20, it's just because of what you said. People are like, ah, I don't want to take him a 12 because of the neck thing. I'd feel better if it was a 25, right? Or something like that. Uhm, you know, and, and just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's really nothing to not like about him. Uh, you know, I think the only thing I talk about really is just the, I wish there was a few more snaps of just raw explosiveness come around the corner and win with the bend that way. But top 20 pick, and I said Jalen Phillips, and that's who he really reminds me of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of, this is when I say flexible, pliable, fluid, right? You've seen those words in my notes sometimes, right? I'm big into, like, you're not gonna be just up here in a perfect position all game long, right? I mean, every now and then, like, Zack Martin's gonna pull and he's gonna hit you, and you're gonna be like, oh, I'm bent like this, right? What do you do when you're like that, right?


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[Assistant] You know, the fourth and fifth rounders crumble and go to the ground. The first rounders go, ah, I'm okay. And they overcome it and they still get off it and make a tackle. Right? That's, that's, that's what I mean by that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being in, oh, this guy made me move and I got a guy here and now I'm stuck in this position, but I hopped off of him and I still made the shuffle to my right to make the tackle, right? Where...


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[Assistant] Well, we'll talk about a guy in a little bit here that's a little bit more stiff where


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[Assistant] He gets in those positions and he goes down, or it's just over, like the play's over a little bit. He's not gonna recover that way. That to me is one thing that Dallas Turner and Latu


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[Assistant] We're really good at, is being put in those awkward, in the scrum positions and then still being able to redirect, shuffle, change directions, throw somebody off them while they're like in a weird yoga pose, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then still go, oh, get off me, I'm gonna make the tackle anyways. They were really good in that department. And that to me goes into the bendable, flexible, pliable thing that you try to piece together to go, ooh, this guy can do this as a pass rusher.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Florida state, right? Jared verse, I mean, come on, body, this is a great God body, right? That, that, that's the, I think where you start. I mean, when you kind of turn on the film, right? I did get a chance to meet him in person too. He, he's rocked up, right? I mean, everywhere. It's, it's,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Incredible arms, incredible shoulders, neck, whatever, right? He doesn't have the waist and the legs that Latou and Dallas Turner have, right?


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[Assistant] It's a little, again, I like the legs. Do I wish it was a little more narrow waisted than the butt and the thighs really kind of stick out, protrude a little bit, right?


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[Assistant] You know, can you picture Lawrence Taylor back in the day, right? That look, Micah Parsons, right? They have that look where it's like the waist is here and then we get to the butt and the legs and they're just like, whoa, there's something different about that, right? That's what


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[Assistant] You know, he doesn't quite have that. It's still a good leg, don't get me wrong.


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[Assistant] Twitchy as hell, right? Explosive. Maybe...


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[Assistant] In a lot of ways, twitchier than Dallas Turner, right? Twitchier, and I mean the like, huh, huh, huh.


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[Assistant] He's right here, get off me, I got it, right? Dallas Turner's so smooth and long, it just looks a little different that way, right? Short area quickness, maybe he's a little twitchier and quicker in those ways than a Dallas Turner and even Lattu in some ways, right? But at the same time, you know, might be twitchier and all that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he's not in the same class, right, as far as the speed and the ability to bend around the corner as Dallas Turner or Latu in that department. He's a little bit of a stiff player and that's why he's number three, right? It's strong, it's powerful, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there's explosion on contact and all that, you like that, but.


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[Assistant] He is a guy that gets put in some awkward positions and you go, ooh, he's gonna go down, right? He plays to me smaller than 6'4, 254.


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[Assistant] Right? To me, the difference between, and this is why I brought this up with the other guys. The other guys...


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[Assistant] Are naturally that. It's easy for them to be that. Jared verse, I get it by seeing him in person and then watching the tape too. He's, he's not a natural 254. He's had to work really hard to be 254. I would bet you he's like 235 or 230 naturally walking around, right? And that leads to, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe not quite, not the same strength as Latour or Dallas Turner to get off blocks, to just straight arm people and disengage and throw them that way. That's where he's a little bit different. He does not have the pass rush bend and potential.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nor is he the player they are at this second as Dallas Turner are locked to, but damn, a really damn good edge player. There's no doubt about that.


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[Assistant] He's got a dad that's, you know, was in the armed forces, right? So he is all about his business and work hard and be happy that I'm grateful for these, you know, that I got this opportunity and all that. He's a great kid. He's going to be a great leader. He's going to work hard. He's going to do everything you want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yeah, he's big time. I mean, he's your starting edge guy right away, day one, and there's no doubt about it that he's a first-rounder. He just is missing a few things as far as the pass rush is concerned that the other guys have that are, that are pretty special in that department.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I believe that as well. You know, again, I don't know, I don't think this is top 20, right? I don't think we're in that area here. I think we're probably more into the


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[Assistant] 18 to 32 range maybe, 20 to 32, right? I guess that's kinda where I would see it. Uh, you know, there's some of that here, and we'll talk about this with the next guy too, where...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, speed to power's not bad, right, but I don't know if I'm sold on it working as much in the NFL as it did in college, right, to just at least


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[Assistant] Counter those points, right? Where again, it's a different animal.


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[Assistant] And his speed is not that of to where I go, uuuh.


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[Assistant] That's really going to threaten the top tackles in football with his upfield speed, first step, any of that, right?


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[Assistant] He's a little bit of a short strider. He's a little bit like the opposite of Dallas Turner where


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[Assistant] Sometimes it looks like he's moving faster than he really is, right? Because the feet are a little bit more like Fred Flintstone and they go fast and there's a lot of turnover, but you see him run down somebody and you go, well he don't run him down like Dallas Turner does, right? And that's where again, the trained eye, looking at it more and more, you know, as you watch, those things start to pop out to you more.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and Matt, Casey, if you let me know, what is Latou's wingspan? I think I missed that. I don't know if we got to it, and maybe we don't have it.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you know, that, that's what's gonna scare people a little bit, right? We saw a wingspan for, I know Dallas Turner, and it was totally towards the end, right?


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[Assistant] You know, this is what I would worry about. This is why I don't put him in the same spot as Latour or Dallas Turner because of, again, not only the explosive ability, the bend, his first step.


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[Assistant] You know, his first two or three steps, cause they're shorter strides, they don't cover the same ground that Lotto and especially Dallas Turner, who's like, the longest damn strides and legs you've ever seen, right? But then two,


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[Assistant] You know, what you worry about with a guy like this is not naturally as big.


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[Assistant] And doesn't have the length and the wingspan, he can get swallowed up a little bit, and he does not get off blocks the same way those guys do because of that, right? Again, because of La Tu's length and wingspan and shoulders, and same with Dallas Turner, they were awesome at holding people out, locking their arms, and disengaging and making tackles.


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[Assistant] That's not necessarily what his strength is all the time, right?


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[Assistant] Latus was only in the 16th percentile for wingspan. Wow, that's so crazy. I mean, that's one where...


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[Assistant] Yeah, the numbers aren't gonna match up, but wow, you watch the film and I sit there and just go...


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[Assistant] That's one of the things that I looked at to be one of the strong traits of what he does. I know. I know. So I'm, I'm, I am surprised by that. Uhm, and, you know, again, that's why you watch the film and sometimes you can't always go with the numbers. We're gonna have some guys that we talk about our honorable mentions or still receiving votes after this where I'm gonna go.


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[Assistant] You know, hey, yeah, there's some things here that you don't like, but they have this, this, and this that counterbalances it. And you go, wow, that's awesome.


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[Assistant] You know, more on verse, right? We talked about the limbs not being as long. 6'4", 254, I think he has to work to be that. He does get tired, right? That would be another thing that I would say jumps out as you watch games. You watch the games and you start to go, he's so high effort.


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[Assistant] And he plays so hard and because I think he's not naturally as big as what he is, right? I do think he gets gas. You see it on certain drives and you see it as the game goes along.


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[Assistant] And I think those are, you know, things that certainly popped out to me that I didn't see on the other guys. Talked about his stiffness and his tightness a little bit, right? You know, he's, he's uh, definitely ends up on the ground and gets pushed out of position a little bit more than the other two guys. He's not as good in that department. He's a little clunkier.


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[Assistant] I think one and two are in a different, you know, obviously I think they're in a different tier or class.


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[Assistant] I-I-I don't think so. I don't think so. I think he's clear cut first rounder. I think as you go through this...


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[Assistant] And again, you know, I don't think this is one me going against the draft community or anything like that. I think it's the more people watch, they're gonna go.


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[Assistant] You know, I just don't think the raw ability is there. Let along the raw size of the human is not in the same level as the other two guys. I wouldn't trust it. I have a hard time thinking that


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[Assistant] You know, coaches and front office people who are very true to these things in a lot of ways, right? I have a hard time thinking they're gonna be able to trust that, right? And, you know, it's just...


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[Assistant] Hey, it's the bend, it's the length, he doesn't set the edge and get off the blocks like we talked about, like you said, it's very obvious to see that right away, right? He doesn't have the first step the other guys have, right? Uhm, his bend is kind of overwhelming.


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[Assistant] He's got good strength, but it's not like...


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[Assistant] On the level of the other two where you go, well, they dominate the tight end every time and the tackle their worst plays are stalemates, right? That's a big thing for me. What are your worst plays look like? Oh, nothing, right? You just stood them up at the line of scrimmage.


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[Assistant] He's got some plays where the worst plays are again, he's on the ground or he gets pushed back a few yards or all that. So really like the guy, starting edge guy, 3-4 outside linebacker, pass rusher DN, whatever you want him to be. Uh, but yeah, I think it's somewhere between 20 and 32.


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[Assistant] We're just talking speed and explosion right here when you're talking about this guy. Just line him up wide, right? He's like perfect Seattle scheme, Jets defense, Houston.


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[Assistant] Line him up wide, let him go get the quarterback, right? Because some of the other stuff is not going to be his cup of tea.


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[Assistant] He's not going to be able to hold his ground at the same capacity like Latour or Dallas Turner, right? You're not going to be, oh, play head up on the tackle in this play because we think you can kind of hold him and control him and disengage and make the plays that way, right? It's not that. Uh, he's, he's kind of,


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[Assistant] A little bit more narrowed, shouldered, right? With some really awesome looking legs, right?


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[Assistant] And arms aren't real locked up. He's pigeon-toed. Like you see a lot of great explosive athletes and yeah, he's got legs that scream explosion. They look like a top tier running back or something like that of that nature, right? I mean,


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[Assistant] His first step, his get-off, they're arguably the best in the draft. I mean, they're that damn good. There's no doubt about that. The quickie twitch explosive, right? He can be disrupted by shooting a gap and...


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[Assistant] You know, can squeeze and get off the ball so quickly, get between the guard and the tackle and get in the backfield and do all that.


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[Assistant] Right? So that type of stuff, straight line speed, get off the ball. Ooh, the quarterback's right there, I'm wide, I get to go do it. See, he got to do some stuff that like Dallas Turner and Latu didn't even get to do, where they got to get real wide, and they were basically like,


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[Assistant] If the quarterback drops past seven yards, you're basically just got to run a straight line. That's all you got to do, right? You don't even have to turn the corner.


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[Assistant] Right, if the quarterback goes back just a little too far, you won't have to, who cares about the big tackle, you're just gonna run straight, he's not gonna be able to get there in time.


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[Assistant] So that's where he's great, but as far as like pure strength, right? Getting off blocks like we talk about, right?


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[Assistant] Disengaging? Doing all of that? Setting the edge if he's not in the rugged? No, he's not even in the class of LaTou or Dallas Turner in that department.


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[Assistant] Right? He's to me a total weak side, edge, wide nine pass rusher. That's where you really want him to be. Right? Doesn't really have any moves. Alright? So I think there's some stuff there. You know, he's got the basics. Okay? You know, doesn't use his hands all that much. He's all about just winning with speed. Right? I think that, that's the big thing. Right? But I think they're,


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[Assistant] It's some things here too, and why I make them for, and I love all those things, right? And you can look at it and go, I don't know, was it Bryce Huff who just signed for, you know, $17 million a year to go to, uh, where the hell did Bryce Huff sign for? Eagles. Eagles, that's right, left the Jets and went to the All-Star Eagles, right? You know.


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[Assistant] Is that, is he this guy, or is he like a speed guy that we go, uh, just never gonna work and all he is is speed, right? Is it, what is it? And that's where I think I make him for.


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[Assistant] Because again, I don't think he's all around good player as the other three guys we've talked about, right? I like some of his pass rush stuff better than Jared verse, but where I question it,


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[Assistant] And go, it's just go, I don't know if some of the pass rush moves in the way he won.


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[Assistant] I'm not sure that's gonna be able to happen in the NFL. I guess that's what I'm gonna say. I question that a little bit. You know, with the lack of length, there is no real speed to power, right?


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[Assistant] And it's not incredible, really good bend. Uh, I just, to me, I do worry a little bit if he's not a little bit of like, hey, I work at college, but I'm not gonna be the same type of guy when I get to the NFL.


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[Assistant] When I got all done with it, I went back and watched that game too.


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[Assistant] Cause I was like, damn, I don't know if he really played anybody big time this year, a tackle or anything like that, right? He played the Michigan game where he was probably his best game, right? Cause I watched that, but I played a guy at right tackle that doesn't play right tackle. That's what I started to realize. Cause then I started to watch other games. I saw Michigan. I was like, wait, the guy I saw chop.


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[Assistant] He's not their right tackle. He's their guard. They must have been injured that game. This is their end. And I was like, damn, I knew that. What the hell, right? So that's what would, the lack of moves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A little being stiff and upright. Another guy that I don't think is naturally as big as what he's listed at. The arms aren't, the length isn't there, right? It's at that part where 32 and a half, our team start to go, uuuh.


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[Assistant] That's, that's what scares me. And you know, it scares me too, you know, you talk about the Ben.


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[Assistant] It's not great balance like Latou and Dallas Turner, right? Again, they talk about the pliability, the fluidness, their ability to be, oh wait, there's a guy leaning on me and I can still be in a bent weird position, like going to the Ohio State game, right?


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[Assistant] There's a few plays where you go, ooh, he's about to get around the edge or whatever.


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[Assistant] But those guys are big and long and NFL guys, and they kinda hit them with his arms, and he can't really recover. To where you go, ooh, he got off a good step, he got off to a good start, that was a good first step. It looks like he's about to go around the edge, right? But then one of those kinda just gets an arm on the shoulder or whatever, and he's not big enough and strong enough, nor the bend is good enough.


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[Assistant] To where he can still stay on track, right? That's, that's the difference, and I think those are little things that even I have learned more about as the years have gone on, right? I know you're Johnny Filmwatcher now, right? I am. And it's weird at times, cause you know, Diven's End, you go, well there's a lot of the game that's not that great or...


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[Assistant] You know, very overwhelming, right? Yeah, I go, okay, great, blah, blah, blah, right? So you gotta sort through it and pick for it and try to, you know, what do I see? Can I piece it together? And that was the thing that bothered me about him in other games too, even this year, where I'd go, ooh, he's gonna get around the edge and then, you know, the bend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the ability to absorb that contact, he doesn't have that, and then that arm punch or whatever just pushes him by and he doesn't get to the quarterback.


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[Assistant] You want to narrate it, Chris? Yeah, it's not bad. So here is Maryland around the edge, 44 coming around the edge. There you see, around the edge too. You know, so many of them are just blurs. That's UMass again.


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[Assistant] A blurs where you just go, he got such a good jump and a good start, the guy never had a chance. And these are some of the ones that I'm talking about where I want to go, one, he's never going to play a tackle like that in football. Two, he's not going to surprise people as much as he does in college at times, let alone, yea, some of his sacks are


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[Assistant] I don't want, you know, systemish, right? Helped him out a little bit. It's not like you're like, oh wow, he's just beating this guy play after play after play. This guy's got his hands full with him. It's, it's not that, right? Like I said, I know, I just, the bendable,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tightly wound hips, you know, haven't seen speed to power yet, right? Is he long enough, broad enough, big enough man? You know, and one of the things I wrote, you know, again, he is a guy that I think is...


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[Assistant] Going to be overdrafted to a degree because of traits and whatever else, right? The athletic traits. The athletic traits and that one ability, that one elite trait of whoa, the get off and the explosion is so good and rare, right?


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[Assistant] Even though we might, the rest of the player might not blow us away, we just, we might have a chance to take a chance on that. We might have to take this guy at 26 or 27, right? Cause it's just, that is rare in that department. And then we gotta just, hey, will the guy work? Can we mold him into being a better, well-rounded football player? Because like, you know,


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[Assistant] Roswell, the other Alabama guy, uh, Ellis, the other guy from Utah, Booker, the guy from Kansas, we're gonna talk about all these guys after, where I go on a play-by-play basis, those guys affect the game way more than Chop Robinson, way more.


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[Assistant] They don't have three rockets up their ass coming around the edge. And that's where, that's where teams are gonna have to do their due diligence. And again, it gets into that special elite thing, right?


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[Assistant] Some of the pressures and sacks, like I told you, I'm just not sure some of them are going to translate to the NFL. Sure. With the type of animal and guy you're dealing with, that tackle, like I said, they're not going to get, oh, the ball was snapped, oh, he got around me. Like, it is some of that, or missteps or whatever. I felt like a little bit was, you know,


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[Assistant] He benefited from who they were playing the college football.


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[Assistant] I would say so, maybe not as slam dunky as maybe, like Dallas Turner excites me as much as anybody in the draft, but the film doesn't warrant


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[Assistant] Maybe, like, what I saw from some other guys last year, I was like, oh damn, they definitely do this good, they do that good, blah blah blah, right? Like we talked about, a little projection involved, right? But like, do I sit here and go,


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[Assistant] Could be Von Miller in two years, right? Like no doubt about it, but it's not there yet, right? And there's a part of him, here's another aspect again, that I should have brought this up. I wish he just played a hair more reckless. I do. I wish there was a little bit more of like,


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[Assistant] Hey, you're the man, just throw your body around, go in there, dive in there, make the tackle, whatever, right? That's what I would like to see a little bit more of. And we'll see. Last year's my number one, Tyree Wilson, and went to the Raiders. I'm not giving up on him. Again, you know,


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[Assistant] I know I'm not the only one that saw that. And I still believe, like, if he doesn't have the foot issue, I think he's still probably going to be the first guy off the board last year. He was kind of like, you said it before we started the pod, when you watched his film last year, you were kind of like, holy shit, can anybody block him? Right.


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[Assistant] He has got, he was one of the most pleasant surprises. One, because the combine numbers are very underwhelming and don't explain the player, right? If you look at the combine, I'd go 6'4 and a half, 240.


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[Assistant] 33 and 7 eighths? He ran a 4, 7, 9 and ran a 1, 6, 7? I'd go, I don't, what? Like, how is this guy one of the better pass rushers? No way.


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[Assistant] Pass rush moves, great bend, the get off and explosion is better than those numbers would tell you. His ability, even his 33 and 7 eighths arm, arm length, right, it's pretty long, you'd maybe like it a little longer, but he's got broad shoulders too, so I'm guessing the wingspan will be more than I think, but yea, like you said, I mean,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He can use his hands and he's got a little variety of pass rush moves, he's got some bend, and like a Dallas Turner, the strides cover a lot of ground.


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[Assistant] You know, one thing that jumps out to me too, with some of these guys, cause he doesn't do this, getting down in the three point stands, some of these guys don't want to do that. And they're made to do that when they run the 40. When you watch Austin Booker,


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[Assistant] I would say 95% of his snaps, he does not put his hand on the ground. He just wants to be kind of standing up like a receiver.


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[Assistant] And he feels like he can probably get out quicker that way. So, you know, again, I really liked him, but getting off the blocks, being slippery, side to side movement just overall affected the game. I really liked Austin Booker a lot. He was fun to watch, right? What's one thing keeping him out of your


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it's gonna be the overall size and strength. People aren't gonna trust it all the way. At 240, right? You know, it's not a, like, painful skinny.


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[Assistant] But I think people are going to go like, wait, is that going to work against Lane Johnson and Trenton Williams? Like, are we sure about that? I think that's what's going to hurt him ultimately. I think he ultimately, though, is still a second round pick. I, you know, I put 40 to 60. He's one of the first guys I watched, right? So maybe that's a little high, but yeaah, I like it.


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[Assistant] You know, he reminded me in some ways because his arms flare everywhere and everything, right? Where I was like, yea, he's got some Max Crosby to him as far as what the body style and length at times and how he looks and plays that way.


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[Assistant] Right, there might not be no sexy elite trait where you go, whoa, he's so fast, or...


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[Assistant] You know, he's crazy strong, but you look at him, you go, he's really good at everything. And he does not have a weakness. And the more and more you watch him, the more you go, oh.


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[Assistant] He can, he's got a little bit more explosion off the line of scrimmage. He's got a little bit more bend and pass rush value than, like when I first turned it on, I just went, aw, it's gonna be a big physical, you know.


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[Assistant] 3-4 outside linebacker Alabama type, right? I kind of thought it was going to be that kind of guy. I kept going, I kept going, man, I kind of like this guy.


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[Assistant] You know, he's bendable, you know, got a little bit of fluidity that way, and like you said, for 251, and even the way he looks in his uniform, you're kind of just like, wait, there's no way he's 251. The way he can hold up against people and contact, like I would have thought he was 270 with how he looks in the uniform.


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[Assistant] Four six, one five nine, right? Thirty three and a quarter arms, right? Here's another guy that I think goes in the mid.


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[Assistant] Mid to late second round for sure. Uh, and uh, the thing holding him back is just an explosion basically. I think so, that elite trait, right? That to me is really...


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[Assistant] And one of the things I wrote at the end is he's a really good player who doesn't do anything elite or doesn't have that elite trait, but he does have, he does do everything well, has no weakness, he is a starting NFL edge defender, has more explosiveness than first step,


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[Assistant] Then you think, he's a little bit of a long strider, he has bend, has speed to power, you know, plays run really well, and if you need another drop in coverage, he's athletic enough to do that kind of stuff as well.


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[Assistant] Full transparency, when I first sent you the top 5, I put his name as 5, right? Cause I was like, alright, I don't wanna cop out here, I'll do top 5, that's what I do.


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[Assistant] Gosh, if I gotta pick one, I guess I'll pick him, right? But then, you know, I send the text in a few minutes, you know how I go, and then I go back and look at my nose, and I'm like, oh man, this is really close, oh shit, I don't know if I can do this. I mean, you said it right, right? I mean,


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[Assistant] Again, I think if you compare him to a Chop Robinson, you go, the effect on the total game is way greater from Jonah Ellis. Jonah Ellis is everywhere, right? He's great change of directions. He's got great play strength, right?


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[Assistant] He just throws people around constantly, right? With tight ends, tackles. You're amazed by it. Let alone, like you said, he's slippery. He's got instincts to go, ooh, the ball's going here. I know I'm not supposed to stay in this gap. I'm just going to shoot through here and make the tackle and do that.


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[Assistant] He's got good get off, it's not great, it's a little bit of the short choppy step version, but he is an explosive twitchy athlete. There's no doubt about that, right? And their hands, his hands too, you know, his hands, he's definitely


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[Assistant] Like the Austin Booker from Kansas, a little more advanced than a Lattu or a Dallas Turner in that department. Reminds me of a, here's a name from the past a little bit, right?


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[Assistant] Connor Barwin, you remember Connor Barwin? Not really. He played for the Texans, he played for the Eagles, went to the University of Cincinnati, he was a starter, probably went to the Pro Bowl a few years, he's a good player, right? Not a superstar.


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[Assistant] Right, but starts on your defense and gets like 8 to 12 sacks for 6 or 8 years in his career, right? That's the kind of guy I think- If you saw him, you'd go, you could be the next Connor Barwin. He might go, and he'll do just like you did. He'll?


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[Assistant] Cause one thing I know is the young generation does not pay attention to the old generation nearly as much as our generation did. Yea, yea, yea. But, uh, yea, I think that's the big thing. But man, the great, quick, side to side, good, natural pass rusher, right? You just wish the


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[Assistant] Overall disruption is great, right? And the last thing I wrote, I said, I really like this kid. I said, I'm not sure he's freaky enough to be a top 5 pass thrasher, but he's damn good and he can start on my defense any day of the year.


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[Assistant] Really good athlete, crazy strong for 248. And another guy I think is like a mid-second, late second round.


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[Assistant] Is one of the best pass rushers in football. Why didn't we draft him in the top 30 picks of the draft? Like what, why? Right?


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[Assistant] Alright, it's not that sight, you know, that crazy, oh, it's four or five speed, right? It's not that. It's not a one, five, four, ten yard split, but it's a one, six, six, which is pretty good for, you know, basically 270 pounds, but it's the other stuff that you talked about, right? I think it's, it's,


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[Assistant] It's the, the looseness, the pliability of the athlete and the strength that like I would, I worry or I think this guy could end up being the


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[Assistant] Zedarius Smith or the Matt Judon that we're going, why did we miss on that guy? Well, cause it wasn't super sexy, it had everything, it's got the long arms, and maybe we're not given some of the power stuff out of it.


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[Assistant] Enough credit for what it can do in the NFL, right? Cause you saw it. He moves guards. He does that a lot.


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[Assistant] And he can make the miss and pass rush too, but yeaah, I liked Marshawn Nealon a lot.


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[Assistant] Ben Trice is a really good football player, right? Not an elite pass rusher that way, not an elite athlete altogether, right? Kinda a little bit like we've talked about. Does everything well. Starting edge defender, no doubt about it. I thought he was bigger.


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[Assistant] He's got good power, but not so much that it makes up for the lack of speed to where you're just like, well, he can't be on his feet, but his power will be enough to get it done. That's not going to happen, right? You know, he can be disruptive, good player, but I think he's kind of end of the second, kind of top of the third round type of player.


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[Assistant] That's what you gotta look for. Exactly right. Like are you beating the guy or is the defense helping you out? And right, you know, we've talked about this before and I think there's a little too much of that. The stats overrated the player, the team being so good I think overrated the player. Good player, don't get me wrong.


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[Assistant] I think after, I mean, Dallas Turner, I get it, and of course we know, I mean, he's a freak, and, you know, it's an edge pass rusher, so I understand that. But, I do think after watching the edge guys,


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[Assistant] Listen, I think it's even less crazy now, like to think Quinian Mitchell can't be the first guy off the board?


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[Assistant] I, you know, he's definitely worthy of that, right? If we're talking about in this day, the pass rushers and these are the cream of the crop of the draft and the defense side of the ball. Well, then Kenyatta Mitchell is no doubt in that conversation, right? That for sure. The other one I would look at there, just, you know, again, where I think it's good value is, you know, a lot too.


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[Assistant] You know, Latu being that far down, right? I, I, I wouldn't be shocked if there's gonna be teams that are gonna go, wait, wait, I actually like Latu better than Dallas Turner, right? Now the medical stuff and all that, but if you got some extra change and you want to take a shot, you know, those would be the two guys that jump out to me.


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[Assistant] I, you know, again, he could be, I could see some viewing him as the safer pick, right? And just going like, we talked about Dallas has got all these freaky traits, but you know, you don't see him put it together all the time on film, work, all that, right?


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[Assistant] I think there is a little bit of that. I do. You know, I think there is. And we'll see where this goes. I think as a pass rusher,


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[Assistant] Turner's got a better chance than Trayvon Young, or Trayvon Walker, excuse me, right? And who did I, I mean, I like Trayvon Walker, did I have him two that year? I still had eight and one, didn't I? I think you had Walker one. I had Walker one, but they were close. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't, I can't even remember what I did there, but clearly...


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, I think maybe that's how I phrased it, right? And he's clearly been the guy so far. I mean, Aiden's definitely one of the best edge guys in football. Hey, I'm gonna give two other guys a little shout out. Hold on, we gotta say this. Oh, wait.


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[Assistant] Right, from Houston Christian University. Thank you. These are real Robin Hoods that I want to throw out there. Okay. Right? Guys that I go, probably not go into the middle of the draft, but like, have some things about them where you go, wow.


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[Assistant] That stands out. I mean, he is long as hell, 34 and a half inch arms almost, ran 1'6", right? Kind of has that Daniel Hunter type-ish look.


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[Assistant] Right? Where it's not quite as what you want, you wish it was a little, let me take over more and be a little more aggressive, but there's still some things there where you go,


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[Assistant] Wow, I don't know, if he gets in the right environment and he's the right kind of human being himself, he could, he could be something. He's in that class of players, smaller, college, under the radar, but tested really well. Exactly right, exactly right. You know, and then the other one is,


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[Assistant] Undersized guy, right? A little bit more of the nature of like a Chop Robinson, where...


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[Assistant] You see some explosion at times and things that go, ooh, it's there. You don't see it all the time, right? But he'd be another one that I'd go, hey, if there's somebody kind of out of nowhere three years from now, like that we go, ooh, this guy turned out to be a pretty good player. He'd be another one that I'd throw on the radar that way.


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[Assistant] Send the questions in. AMAs, let's dissect it a little bit. Anybody we didn't talk about? Anybody you want me to go further in on?


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[Assistant] You know, break it down a little bit more, right? We certainly can do that. We'd love to hear the questions. We'd love to hear the feedback, as always. Ahmed Farid's the man. Thank you for leading the charge, as always. Remember, we got corners we did on Monday, pass rushers Wednesday, so Monday for the AMA,


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[Assistant] Everything. Ask me anything. I'll let you know it all. Alright everybody. You know Chris well. Be good everybody. Have a good weekend. Be safe out there. Enjoy some March Madness this weekend. I know I will be. See you Monday. Peace out homies. And opening day on baseball. I won't forget about that. Peace out homies. Clap it up.


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[Assistant] Me and Ahmed Fareed are gonna be here for it all. You know, we got free agency. We're gonna break it all down. The draft, the rankings of positions. Of course, we're gonna unpack it all. Hit subscribe, get to my free agency reactions, 2024 draft rankings and more. Thanks again for watching. Peace out, homies. See you soon.


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[Assistant] Please do, please do. It's always buttoned up here. I unbutton my mouth, but I keep the button top.


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[Assistant] But in sports, NFL still dominates and we're here to talk about some draft stuff today and we got a third wheel. We brought a third wheel with us today and I'm always happy to have a third wheel.


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[Assistant] I mean, they asked him off camera at the Super Bowl, like, what was the first thing that jumps out to you about Sims and Florio? And his first comment was that they're assholes. So I, you know, I don't know.


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[Assistant] I'll listen to what he says. I will definitely, and I always respect it, defer to him? I don't know if that's a definite, okay? I mean, I don't know about that. I said you may have to.


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[Assistant] This is, this is why I wanted Devon on. This is where it's great. I had been talking to Devon about this really since the on the field Lions playoff game against the Bucs. And I was like, Hey Devon, let's,


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[Assistant] When I get, you know, going with the draft stuff, I'd love to bring you on the pod a few times. Maybe you could be our defensive back expert, right? And kind of chime in there.


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[Assistant] I don't expect them to see it exactly the same way I see it, but I know I've talked to Devin enough here in the last year about football to know we're not going to be too far off on our thoughts and how we see people, right?


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[Assistant] Uh, so, and I think this DB class, there's some interesting things to talk about, whether it's nickel, outside guys like we talk about. He brought up a guy a few minutes ago that he talked about where I was like, I know, I like him too, but is he a corner or is he a safety, right? So there's some nuance to it here, and that's where I'm interested to get, you know, Mr. McCordy's thoughts.


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[Assistant] So, I mean, we talked about it, you know, again, and we know he knows more than me about DBs, but I mean, I played against some, right, and threw against some, and was on some teams with some, right, where, you know, again, I think the thing you look at are,


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[Assistant] The attitude, right? We talked about one of the reasons I like those top two guys and I love Quinnian Mitchell is because he's got that attitude that he's referring to with Nate Wiggins. Mitchell's got it too. It's like bring it on, let's go, I broke it up, I'm gonna let the opposing bench know, right? You gotta have thick skin playing that position to that point. I'm covering the


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[Assistant] The greatest athletes on the planet, right, they're gonna make a few plays too when you're just chasing them around like, you know, like you're a kid on the playground.


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[Assistant] So that's where I think we like that, but to you still, the thing you're looking at, Devin, more than anything, right?


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[Assistant] I think we're the same way in this way, it's just the pure physical ability, the pure explosiveness, because a lot of things I think, oh, you know,


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[Assistant] Hand placement, hips, you know, the way you put your foot into the ground to come out of a break, a lot of that is coachable stuff. So you want to see that pure explosive ability, and I think that's why those top two guys are who they are, because they have that element.


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[Assistant] Devin is interesting because he is to me, he's just going a little bit more of like, wait, I've seen this guy against this competition and he's going with the known instead of the little bit of the, I don't know with Quinian Mitchell, which I'm on a little bit of a limb with there, but I understand his thought there all the way, a hundred percent.


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[Assistant] I think he's saying the same things we talked about, right? Like we said when we did the top five, I like these corners a lot. Like I want them on my team, both of them, to Devon's point.


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[Assistant] You know, they know how to play, they tackle, right? Like he said, they're smart, they know how to play the right way according to the zone and the route combinations, reading it, whatever. They do everything well. There's just nothing to me that I look at to go, ooh, it's elite. And to Devin's point, it's like, yeah, I'm not necessarily going to go, ooh, it's third and five.


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[Assistant] I trust one of those guys man to man on a big down against Jamar Chase or something. No, no way in that department, right? But again, guys that you go, wait, they're really good players and I'd like them to be on my team and they certainly can play. And here's the one, the context clue, Devin, that I kind of brought up too.


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[Assistant] You know, because I know you're new to this and you haven't been like watching film of draft guys for the last five years or whatever else.


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[Assistant] The guy at Alabama, the head coach, I mean, he, he's like your old coach, right? When he has good corners, he goes, you play man and you play man and then we'll do a bunch of other crap with everybody else.


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[Assistant] And that to me was the context clue, a little bit to what you were referring to. You know, if they, I feel like if Nick Saban really felt like they were Patrick Surtain and some of those other guys, right? Trayvon Diggs.


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[Assistant] It would have been man to man all the game, but he knew that they weren't that type of guy and that that was, you know, something that that clued me in. So you say Arnold four or does that mean you'd put James from Auburn as number three?


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think it's fair to say, I think, you know, Max Melton has a lot of the things we talk about. I know you're biased and whatever, I'm from Jersey too, you know, but there's no denying when you see a guy, like it goes again to what we talk about.


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[Assistant] You know, his ability to just get up in somebody's face and go, I'm not worried about who you are, how fast you are, whatever. I got, you know, elite athletic ability.


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[Assistant] And, and that's the thing we see. And I think he's another guy that, you know, not only can be on the outside with the top end speed he has, but to me, you know, has some hips and he's got some things to work on where he's a little raw, maybe as compared to the top guys, but like he could be in the slot too. It doesn't matter. He could play man to man anywhere on the football field. I think he,


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[Assistant] I would be shocked, really. I think he's top 40 all the way. It's just, yeaah, does he slip into the end of the first round or, you know, top of the second there? Alright, so, you know, we, we, we,


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[Assistant] We hit on that. I'm really happy that you saw DJ James the same way I did. Because, right, DJ James, I don't know, I don't pay attention to all the, the list is quite to your capacity, but I don't feel like I see his name, you know, in the top three or top five corner conversation. No, end of the top ten. End of the top ten. Usually, yeaah. End of the corners, right. So that, that's good we see it, but I do want to know,


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[Assistant] You know, some other guys that, you know, that pop to you that maybe not are in the top five for me or you, but you also looked at and went, wait, I like this player a lot. You know, I'm not sure he's a top five cover corner, but he's a damn good defensive secondary player.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I gotcha, that's kinda how we broke it down too, right? You know?


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[Assistant] Uh, it's kind of how I looked at it as well. Like a lot of things about him, but there's no way I'm trusting him man to man against Jamar Chase on third and seven.


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[Assistant] Uhm, we both like Saint Restill. This is, you know, this Michigan fan over here. So two of the names there. Mikey Saint Restill. I love Mikey Saint Restill.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I see that. That's where I think sometimes the draft community misses and looks a little too much techniquey stuff when it comes to corner, right? And like we talk about all the time, the great corners of all time.


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[Assistant] You know, they didn't come into the league and we were like, oh, Champ Bailey, his technique is so great. We were just like, holy shit, he's fucking fast and he can run with anybody. And the same with Deon or Daryl Green or Daryl Rivas or whatever.


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[Assistant] Right, where I think the mistakes made a lot of the times is this, it does get into, ooh, the technique, he plays zone, right? That was to me the problem with the Okuda, Jeff Okuda. I liked a lot about his game, but everybody talked about the technique and I was like, right, polished, so what? He's a finished product. I don't necessarily like that to what Devon's saying, right? There's things you're gonna learn, but,


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[Assistant] You know, I think what he sees with the kid from Mississippi State is similar to me. It's a little raw, it's not perfect, but he's tall, he's long, and he can run with anybody, and for being tall and long,


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[Assistant] He actually changes direction and stops and starts pretty good for that, which is rare, right? He's not going to be the guy you always want to match up against a smaller, maybe change of direction guy, but the T. Higgins of the world, you're like, hey, DeCamarion Richardson, go out. T. Higgins, you're, you're perfect to match up with him. I want to hit on the other guy you talked about, Rake Straw, right?


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[Assistant] Regstraw really remind, and Regstraw might end up being in my top 5 safety things, cause I liked him, but I just didn't love him at corner, and saw the things you saw. Like they obviously thought he was the man, the attitude's the man.


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[Assistant] The one of the guys I said to, to, to, uh, uh, Ahmed was, I guess he reminds me of Chauncey Gardner Johnson, really, with that attitude and physicality, right?


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[Assistant] Yeah, he hits you that way. I don't know if he's as good as like coverage wise, man to man as Chauncey Gardner was coming out of Florida, but it is that same physical attitude, safety, maybe nickel like, like how Devin talked about a little bit before. Nickel against maybe it's a tight end who plays in the slot a lot or it's a bigger, bigger Michael Thomas.


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[Assistant] Right? Type of slot receiver. That's where he makes sense. But yea, he was a tough eval for me. Cause a pure corner, I didn't love him. But as a, like, oh, can I have him on my defense to talk shit and be a safety and get in your face? That's where I loved Rake Straw. And it's just about, yea, a team having that spot that makes sense for him on their defense.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I hear you there. I hear you totally. I think that's exactly what he's gonna be looked at. Safety, Nickel Guy, right in between there. Like, what about, alright, so here's one more, cause I know we have some questions from the homies that I want you to answer that are kinda around the corners and are a little bit New England Patriot centric, so we gotta get your opinion on some of those things.


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[Assistant] To you, you know, give us a little bit of like a, just a one, a thesis statement on all three of them, which made them special and why, and you know, maybe why they were a little different than the other guy.


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[Assistant] Defense can really mess with the quarterback's brain, right? It really can. It's like you said, you're a quarterback. We've been taught by the head coaches and all the smart people of football about sound football, what should be done, what should not be done.


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[Assistant] And then you play a team like New England who might have the corners like he's talking about and you're going, wait, they can't play this defense against this, this doesn't make sense. And they do it. And then you're like, wait,


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[Assistant] That was a little different. Yeah, the magic man got hot. He started to make some throws and it became a fun game. But that's what a corner can really do. It frees up the rest of the defense, like he says, to be creative.


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[Assistant] He kinda, he kinda went Odell a little there. He kinda went Odell. But yea, I mean they're both awesome. It's both a pain in the ass. I think what he's trying to say is a guy like Neighbors or Odell has just got a little more versatility in their game to where the defense has to worry about, like he's saying, wait, he can do the Julian Edelman stuff?


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[Assistant] And yet he can go outside and run deep down the field and beat us for a bomb.


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[Assistant] For that guy that gets moved around as compared to, let's say, the Marvin Harris and DeAndre Hopkins type, where they kinda, most of the game, hey, put him outside over here, let him win the one-on-ones, and like he said, even if he's covered, he's so big, his arms are so long, his hands are so damn good, we'll still throw to him and he'll catch it.


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[Assistant] Safeties in our, even when Devon was growing up in early days, like he was in college, safeties back then are like now the size of the linebackers. It's changed that way, you know.


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[Assistant] I was in the era of yea, the linebackers were 245 and 63 or 250 and all that. And then at the end of my career started to change, like, Hey, let's find the faster guy here. Hey, instead of the safety being, you know,


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[Assistant] 6-2, 2-35, let's move that guy to linebacker. And then like he's saying, let's find the corner who's not as fast and great, great with the man-to-man skills, let's move him to safety. Right? It's become a passing league, it's more speed on the field, right? It makes a lot of sense and, yeah, it's...


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[Assistant] Safety is one of those positions that, I mean of course we want great physical ability, but as like what made Devon awesome or any good safety that I was ever around,


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[Assistant] They're, they have a football IQ that is imperative to their success. Like they are literally the quarterback version for the defense. They're the guy that can kind of be like, Hey, you go here, you go there, you go here. And you can kind of look at the offense and go, Ooh, I think they're going to run this play. I watched on film all week. I'm ready for it. Right. That's what was awesome about Ed Reed when you played him.


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[Assistant] Right, but that's the IQ and that's where safety is truly a great blend of that and that's why Devon was so


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[Assistant] That's a tough one, right? I mean, I know we've talked about it a little bit.


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[Assistant] It's, it's, it's, they have holes on their team. They can certainly go to trade down. I tend to kind of...


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[Assistant] Be on Devon's side of like, hey, you don't know when you're going to be here again. This is a pretty good quarterback draft class.


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[Assistant] And you know my phrase of like what I use with Russell Wilson in Pittsburgh, Beacon of Hope, right? Beacon of Hope is big in the locker room, for the fan base, for just how you're viewed in general, right? It's one of the reasons


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[Assistant] We talk about like, hey, one of our old buddies, Josh McDaniels, I think that was the problem with the Raiders, they hadn't had that young quarterback, nothing to look forward to, no beacon of hope, ooh, ooh, when McDaniels gets this guy ready, right? So that just allows people to pile on. I, I, I feel like if, you know,


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[Assistant] The thing they have to do, and like we talked about a little bit, is if they have the same grade or a similar grade on Bo Nix, Drake May, and let's say J.J. McCarthy, and it's very close,


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[Assistant] There's enough there that they can still be a top unit in football, right? Right? I mean, I think, you know, McCordy's saying it right, really. Speed. They need speed. Right. They got everything else a receiver. You got the KJ Osborne, right? You can't trust Taequann Thornton whether he's gonna stay healthy. You know, Kendrick Bourne is back, right? Juju Smith-Schuster's still there.


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[Assistant] Those are, there's all great guys in the middle of the field, right? Run this route. You're perfect for that. But yea, they need a guy like he's talking about, whether that's a Donnie Mitchell or, you know, some other bigger type of guy out on the edge where they can just go like, I think what he's referring to is like, Hey, it's one-on-one.


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[Assistant] And let's just end the conversation. He's gonna beat him, throw him a good ball and that's it. And even if he's covered, you could put it here or there and let him go get the ball. And we know there's some guys that are there to be had, you know, if they did trade down or if they, you know, top of the second, we know there's going to be some of those type of guys.


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[Assistant] Patriots West Coast with Monte Asenford who's gonna think just like the Patriots basically. So that's, they're gonna be interesting. And Monty was there all those years when we were drafting Devin and I was working in New England and all of that where


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[Assistant] You know, he was watching Bill trade down every year and we saw him last year in his first draft just trade down, trade down, trade down. So I'll be interested to see what he does as well.


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[Assistant] Well, so this is where, like, you heard this conversation off screen last week. Remember Pete was like a little bit talking about, hey, you know, do you think you'll see it this way and he'll see it that way? And I was like, man, Pete, my experience is that people who have been taught by, you know,


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[Assistant] Good football people have been around it. We usually don't see the game that drastically different. Remember I was trying to tell him that I was going like, you know, we might have our top five guys are probably going to be very similar. He might have one. I might have him too. He might have him four. I might have him three, whatever. You know what I mean? But you're looking for similar things, similar things, right? You know, I mean, again,


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[Assistant] What do you think? You think that Mississippi State guy is still going to be a six round pick? I mean, probably not, right? I mean, here's, it's, it's me. I'm not saying I'm, you know, know everything.


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[Assistant] But like I said, I've been around a little bit and seen some good corners and played with some, and of course he's played with some of the greatest ever.


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[Assistant] Right, so he saw, well shit, this guy, he can stick his foot in the ground, he can fly, he's long as hell, what's not to like about him, right? And, uh, I think, uh, so that's what I think is the interesting thing, and that's what I find more times than not, when you know this, and I don't always share this stuff, when I talk to my coach friends and all that, yeaah.


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[Assistant] More times than not, see things very similar. Maybe not exact, but very similar in a lot of ways.


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[Assistant] That guy's face, he yells at everybody a little bit, like yeaah, you're moving up. But those are things though that are tangible pieces of evidence though.


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[Assistant] Right? I can tell you, I've been, like even when I was a young player in the NFL, and we might have had the kids from a college, they're visiting the facility, and you might meet two defensive tackles, and you're, whoa, they're both going somewhere between 10 and 25, right?


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[Assistant] You can meet them and one of them, you could go, this dude is like, got the alpha, I'll lead the team personality. The other guy was just like, uh.


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[Assistant] I'm the man, I'm big, huh. Right? And I was, well yeaah, I mean, hey again, my experience would tell me the guy that was, you know, charismatic and happy to be here and could lead a conversation and you could tell there was excitement just to be around football, yeaah, my bet is he's gonna be better at football too if the talent's somewhat equal. Totally. You know what's funny?


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[Assistant] That's not the guy that, you know, a lot of coaches want in their locker room. Now, there's one or two in every locker room. There's nothing you're going to do, right? It's a thousand people in the NFL as players.


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[Assistant] Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh ain't looking for those guys. He's looking for like, wait, who are the psychos that love football that I basically have to be like, hey, calm down. It's just practice here today, right? That's what he's looking for. Same with Shanahan, right?


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[Assistant] You know, I mean, Shanahan, Dan, the NFLPA guy had to go on the field last year and go, Hey, you guys need to stop practice so hard, which is like the weirdest thing ever. Remember when we talked about that a little bit? The NFLPA representative went in the middle of the field during practice and literally was like, this is


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[Assistant] Too crazy. And they were like, this is how we practice. And what are you doing stopping our practice anyways? You don't work for the 49ers, right? So that's the kind of guys you're looking at. Again, it's the same thing you see with the Chiefs.


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[Assistant] You go in the Chiefs and you go out to practice, you go, holy shit, did these guys love being out here? It just, you feel it. I wanted to get in the drills before the playoff game when I saw the Chiefs, cause it was just like, they were ready and let's work and do that. And that's where, again, the word culture, right? That comes from that type of stuff. And that's, that's why you


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[Assistant] And it wasn't even a realistic workout in some ways, the way the urgency in which he threw some of the routes and things downfield. Listen, there's still some eye popping throws where you go, damn, that's a good one, right? Don't, don't get me wrong there. I got that.


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[Assistant] But it's still too many throws where I go, what? Number three pick of the draft wouldn't throw a ball like that.


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[Assistant] In three months, let alone like third time in the last 10 throws, right? So that's to me, again, it's still the same problems there.


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[Assistant] When you watch it, again, I came away going, that had no feel of a number three pick of the draft type of guy. I came away unimpressed.


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[Assistant] The ball floated in the air too long and a lot of the down the field throws. I know there's like two or three on social media that were, hey, that's awesome. And they were great. I get that. And that's what Zach Wilson had one of those. But, but, but I'll say Zach Wilson also had like a hundred other piss missiles where we were like, Whoa,


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[Assistant] Holy shit, right? That was just the crown jewel of them all. That one where both feet were off the ground, he threw it across the field, right? Drake May didn't want to make a mistake. That's what it kind of looked like after a while. He started off a little shaky, and he missed


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[Assistant] A few throws and a few throws like we talked about where it's against air and people are turning around or having to slow down to catch the ball. Then he threw a few out routes that went.


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[Assistant] As a quarterback guy. There are, and it's, you know, not only some of the mechanical things we talked about, right, I don't know if they're that easily fixed. That's my big thing. Let alone there's things you see on film and play that, again, I would sit here and go, no way is he the number three pick of the draft.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I get that, right? But to me, there's a difference in that film. That's what I think people are missing. I know we're talking about a big guy who runs well and we have a few highlight throws down the field that we go, wow, right?


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[Assistant] If you, like, if you watch Josh Allen or Justin Herbert, right?


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[Assistant] Their bad throws are not even in the same stratosphere as, as Drake May.


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[Assistant] Their bad throws are like, oh, they barely missed the target or maybe they made a bad decision.


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[Assistant] And they thought, oh, I can fit this in there, but the throw was perfect, right? I don't care. Like, okay, they made a bad decision because Josh Allen's a knucklehead and he thinks he could throw it 140 miles per hour through a keyhole, right? Yeah. Right. So that, but the throw, I don't go, I go with that. I would come away going, that was the most unbelievable throw I ever saw in my life.


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[Assistant] Incomplete, he got intercepted, right? Or you'd see like Justin Herbert, same thing, like nobody's open, nothing's there.


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[Assistant] He literally hit the defender in the head, right? Because the defender of the head was in the way of the receiver who wasn't open his hands, right? But you didn't come away going, eh. That's the opposite with Drake May. Drake May, as you saw even yourself,


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[Assistant] Let alone, I know others, right? And that you just see too many- Me, novice film reviewer guy. Me, novice film reviewer guy, exactly. You see too many where you go, wait, the guy is open.


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[Assistant] And it's incomplete or it skips on the ground or it's way over his head. And those are the things, you know, has to be worked out like we talked about and still the pocket stuff and staying on the first receiver a little too long. Again, there's a lot of good there. There is. Don't get me wrong, but I think there's more work to be done and I don't think


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[Assistant] The film is as good as people are trying to make it out to be. I keep hearing those two phrases.


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[Assistant] It's a lot like Justin Herbert and Josh Allen and I want to go, we need to sit down together and watch Justin, uh, Josh Allen and Justin Herbert old film together and I'm going to show you that he never misses a throw like this. They never throw a slant like that. They don't ever do that and you know, that's, that's, that's where we're at with


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[Assistant] The only problem is Caleb Williams can make all those throws for sure, right? And then some, right? So that would be what I would say to you there. Jaden Daniels can also make some really special throws that way too.


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[Assistant] So I don't want to discredit them by your point though, uh, yes, if you saw his five best throws, you'd go, ooh, wow. Right? Like we talked about when we did the quarterback ranking, but even within that, okay.


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[Assistant] I still see those throws in his mechanics and just go, again, the mechanics I'm talking about, I go, I don't know if you can fix them, they're not easy fixes here. This isn't just like, oh we gotta make the motion a little tighter, or we gotta change one little thing about the footwork. There's multiple things to work on.


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[Assistant] The way he looks and throws and delivers, even though it looks great downfield, my lifelong thing has gone, ehh, I don't love that delivery. I don't like the way that looks, it's segmented at times, and therefore that's why the ball does go all over the place, let alone there's some things he does with his arm and his feet that are just not mechanically sound.


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[Assistant] Wow, his, his throwing motion is sweet. I mean, now again.


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[Assistant] This is, we're only gonna, from this tape right here, we're gonna see a few throws.


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[Assistant] It's not gonna be anything like we're gonna see a ton here. But it was one dime and unbelievable throw after another. I mean, people are sleeping on Michael Pennex Jr. I understand that he's got an injury history.


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[Assistant] Right? But damn, are we looking for guys that can throw the ball, make good decisions, and who have played a lot of ball? Right? That's all I keep hearing. He's played a lot of ball. He's played a lot of ball. Oh wait, this guy played a lot of ball. We don't like him. We don't know why. I don't know. He hurt his knee four years ago. Oh, is that the only reason why? Michael Pettix is a top 20 pick in the draft.


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[Assistant] No doubt about it for me. Like, he is too good. He showed it there. I think out of anybody's pro day, out of any quarterback, maybe any player at all, I think Michael Pennex Jr. helped himself. I do. Because one,


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[Assistant] The one of the concerns was, ooh, he's a little frail, like we talked about at the dark, right? Well, you could see he did a little workout in the last six weeks. He ain't the same frail guy as Jack, right? I think people question.


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[Assistant] He makes people miss and sets up and makes throws way more than people are letting on, right? Let alone, you see a few times when he tucks it and runs and turns a corner and you go, wow, but him to run a 4-5 like that?


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[Assistant] Yeaah, it's gonna change people. Let alone, again, you're gonna continue to watch the film and just go, damn, does he ever miss these throws? It's so many good decisions. He's just a natural at the position. There is no way you can watch Michael Pennix Jr. film.


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[Assistant] And Drake May Film, or Michael Pennix Jr. Pro Day, and Drake May Pro Day.


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[Assistant] Tell me that you think they're on the same playing field right now. There is no way. Again, I feel that strongly about it, right? Yeah. Uhm, so we'll see where it goes. The Drake May thing, you're hearing more and more as we go here. Jared Mayo referenced it last week. He needs some work. Well, I'm not surprised.


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[Assistant] We'll see, right? I, I mean, I, I'm again, you heard me, I think...


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[Assistant] Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, and McCarthy are off the table. I have a hard time thinking, there's no guarantee. I mean, I could see Sean Payton like Bo Nix, like I told you. Bo Nix, he's worthy of that. The Raiders at 13 with Michael Pennings Jr., yes, yes, sign me up. I'd be all for that.


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[Assistant] They should be all for that. Again, you're getting a mature guy who could kind of come in right away and play and give your whole locker room and your fan base like, Hey, there's somebody exciting in our team future. Like Devin McCourty.


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[Assistant] I think that's when you're probably risking a little bit or getting a little too high, right?


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[Assistant] And this is the guy you're sold on, then I'm, I don't question that. I'm, I'm all for that, right?


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[Assistant] You know, within the normal balance and value of a draft, right? Okay. Yeah, two or three for a guy who's had two knee surgeries and some other injuries and was a little older. That would be, yeah, normally a little too rich for that guy.


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[Assistant] Definitely. I mean, I feel like once you start to get outside of eight, I start to go, okay, I mean, I've definitely seen worse than Michael Pennix Jr. drafted somewhere between eight and twenty. Like, Michael Pennix Jr.'s film compared to Kenny Pickett, are you kidding me? Like, are you kidding me? Come on.


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[Assistant] Like it's, and the talent too, it's not just the film, it's the talent, right? So that's what drives me crazy, right? Where I just, I sometimes, I don't know. You know, Christian Ponder was picked at number 10. I don't want to go like, Michael Pennings Jr. compared to Christian Ponder, come on, there's not even a question.


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[Assistant] So, then why can't Michael Pennex be at 9 or 10, right?


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[Assistant] I'm sure there's things the NFL, the NFL steals from everything. So whatever they feel like they can get an advantage from, they will do it as far as schematics, right? We know that. Uh, so I'm actually starting to come around to your thought there. You think it's gonna happen?


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[Assistant] He was a lot of on the money. It really was. I mean, Jayden Daniels pro day was phenomenal.


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[Assistant] Right? Caleb Williams played it safe and just, you know, threw the ball and checked the box and showed everybody, hey, look, I'm here and I can do this easily. But, like, didn't push the boundaries at all. Wasn't like, oh, let me wow everybody, right? Jaden Daniels, I think it was a little bit like, hey, wait, I hear all this J.J. McCarthy stuff and, you know,


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[Assistant] Caleb Williams is one. Let me remind you how good I am a little bit. I mean one, I mean he's an effortless thrower. I love that.


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[Assistant] He's tall as hell, right? And he is a guy that we talk about with Justin Herbert sometimes. He can throw over the line of scrimmage, right? Because he is so tall to see there.


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[Assistant] Right. He doesn't need space. That was the thing I loved about the workout in general. And I talked about a little on PFT last week. They did a lot of throws where he threw the ball down the field.


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[Assistant] And his quarterback coach would stand right in front of him, right? So he couldn't step into it. So he's throwing a 20-yard crossing route or a 20-yard in-cut and it's like he can't really step and he's just gotta do it. Those are throws you gotta make in the NFL. He does it easily. I mean easily.


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[Assistant] You know, let alone showed, showed off a little bit with some of the deep ball throws, right? So, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a very big Jaden Daniel.


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[Assistant] Well don't always go into all that, right? At commander's fan number one, right? I hear what you're saying, but like again, think about people like, here's, here's,


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[Assistant] People have recognized the talent of this guy for a while and think he's good. Like Antonio Pierce, right? He loves Jaden Daniels. He was at our Arizona State with him. They've seen what makes him. Don't put all everybody else's problems on the quarterback, right? He got in a better support system.


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[Assistant] So it was hard at Arizona State, some of the situation there. And again, don't judge people what they were doing when they were 18 and 19, right? This is one where I'm a little bit more believer in what we've seen right now here in recent history, not what he was four years ago when he was 17 and, you know, still learning


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[Assistant] It would make me feel better. I mean, certainly, you know, you're going into a spot that I would go, yeah, that's definitely one of the ideal spots in football to go play quarterback, right? But that guy, you know, he's gonna,


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[Assistant] He's gonna not only teach you football, he knows about throwing a little bit, right? He's gonna be able to devise an offense where, hey, you might have a problem with these throws, but don't worry, I'll figure out some other ways to still make you look good with other throws, right? Build the confidence, right? You got the talent around them. So that would certainly...


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[Assistant] It would change my, my thought that way. Right? Uhm.


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[Assistant] You know, I don't see as high in talent as I did with Jordan Love. We talked about this a little bit before the podcast because one of our producers was asking us a little bit about that. Like, Jordan Love excited me more than Drake May.


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[Assistant] I-I feel like, if like, he asked me to make a comparison, right? Did he say a little bit? Like... What's his ceiling? Yeah.


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[Assistant] I honestly feel like his ceiling is, for me, is kinda- Sam Darnold. I was gonna say Jared Goff.


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[Assistant] Okay. Okay. That to me is what it could be.


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[Assistant] You know, I can't stress to you enough, the throwing is just not as bullseye as machine-like as you would like for a first round quarterback. It really is not. And that's what, uh, it really, really bothers me.


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[Assistant] I do do a little bit. You know, I don't want to say bust. I think some of the guys are maybe not, like,


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[Assistant] Like we kinda talked about, the top guys, I don't know if I'm guaranteed, like, oh, superstar. Like, I got a guy that I go, oh, he's a really good player, and I want him to play on my defense for a long time.


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[Assistant] But I don't know if I see Superstar in some of these guys, which I think we were maybe led to believe a little bit. But yeah, you know, again, a guy like Chop Robinson, there's some...


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[Assistant] Questions, some things that are issues for me, or I don't know, right? Dallas Turner, we talked about it, there's all the traits, you get to see everything.


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[Assistant] Does it get the bit put together to where even a novice film watcher like you, you sit there and you're like, I don't, you know, it's not that crazy impressive. Am I really watching the number eight pick of the draft, right? Not physically dominating out there. Not like you said, like Tyree Wilson last year from Texas Tech, he was the number seven pick of the draft and you were like,


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[Assistant] Whoa, he wrecks every play. This is crazy, right? So there's a little bit more of a projection potential, right, of all that. I think the one that we agree on that is, you know, the best at this second, right? And I feel like,


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[Assistant] There's really no bus potential, there's lot to, right? But I don't think his high end can be what Dallas Turner's can be. As I explained, I mean I think Dallas Turner could be like literally Von Miller or something like that. That's special.


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[Assistant] So, we'll see where that goes. Uh, but yeaah, I think, you know, at the end of the day there, JD's Burner, it just was a group of maybe high-end superstars as I thought it was gonna be. And there's some questions about


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[Assistant] I mean, he wouldn't be in front of Jalen Phillips. He wouldn't, like, if you just went on film, he wouldn't have been in front of Tyree Wilson last year. Right. No, uhm, the year before that was, yeah, like,


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[Assistant] You know, hey, Chase Young and all that. Again, Chase, you know, I like Chase, definitely. It was stiff. We talked about that a little at the time where you were like a little worried about that. I think, I think in probably in a lot of years.


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[Assistant] Right? He's probably like the second guy or the third guy, but then also within that guy, we're like, oh my gosh, Dallas Turner.


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[Assistant] He's my number two, but he could be like, oh my gosh, wow, right? If he turns into a superstar, you're not going to be surprised. No, no, I know. And I still won't be surprised because I think, you know, ultimately that's why I put him one. There's just, there is too many things. I saw enough tangible evidence to go, okay, it might not be the complete package yet.


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[Assistant] But I saw, ooh, this corner of the package is awesome, that corner of the package is awesome, he seems like he's willing to work hard, and he plays hard, so it's gonna come together at the right time.


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[Assistant] Directly ahead of the tackle or play a little bit more of a defensive tackle thing.


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[Assistant] Right, yeaah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna value him a little bit more as a tackle and then go, hey, he can do some DN and stuff like that. But yeaah, I did not evaluate him as a defense end. I haven't watched him yet specifically other than seeing crossover film of other guys and stuff like that. But I know I've seen him in person.


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[Assistant] And I've talked to him and he's got the attitude we talk about and he's got the body that I know will translate to the NFL. No doubt about it. He is a.


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[Assistant] Bigger hybrid type of defense alignment, right? That's the big thing. He's not your, oh let's let him get wide and just rush the guy around the edge. You know, he's got a little bit more nuance and


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[Assistant] Some pass rushers that are available on day two at the top of the draft that you would think, okay, that definitely can help their football team, right?


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[Assistant] I don't know if I feel that way about the corner position, right? So that's where you gotta figure that out, right? Again, I know there's some guys that I like as players, like we talk about, who might be there at the top of the second, but it depends what they're looking for, right? And how are they evaluating AJ Terrell right now, who's been a little banged up the last few years, but


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[Assistant] That's what I was referring to. I think there's more guys you can get the top of the second at that position. Corner, you know, again, we like a lot of them, I get it, but to me, yeaah, there's two special ones that kind of jump out, right? And McCordy talked about that.


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[Assistant] You know, I just, I guess what I wonder is... Team Need. Team Need, how they evaluate it, what Raheem wants to do. Raheem is not a huge man-to-man cover type of guy.


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[Assistant] You know, he's really about zones, passes it off, different types of zones, all that. So I don't know where he stands there, but I think that's my thought though. If that's, if it's like, wait, it's one of those two positions, then I would go take Quinian Mitchell and, you know, get the, get the guy


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[Assistant] Right, like, this is where I think the little bit sometimes is a good question, right, and I think this is where


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[Assistant] Like I, I hear this a little bit in the draft thing. Like, oh Marvin Harrison's, you know, it's not as good because of the quarterback he had this year, right? Because he had Kyle McCord. Go back and watch CJ Stroud and you'll feel better about him.


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[Assistant] I'm not looking at any of that though. I hear the same thing with Drake May. Oh, he lost Josh Downs and they weren't as talented at receiver this past year. I don't really care about any of that. Again, that's to me. Again, you're looking at team stats, the offense, all that.


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[Assistant] When the guy is open, can he throw the ball exactly where he needs to go? I don't give a shit who the receiver is, right? It's like, I don't give a shit who's throwing to you if you're Marvin Harrison Jr. How much did you separate?


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[Assistant] Wow, I mean watch CJ Stroud just drop it in his pocket every throw.


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[Assistant] Wow, that's, you know what, that's right. Marvin Harrison Jr. is the top receiver. Cause I watched him not get open and CJ Strahd just dropped the ball into his pocket all the time, right? So again, that's where I think like,


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[Assistant] Are continued and I had these problems too. Like where you gotta, yeah, you gotta kind of block some of that stuff out sometimes and go wait.


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[Assistant] The result doesn't really matter, right? Don't be so result-oriented.


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[Assistant] Oh, I know he caught an 80 yard touchdown pass, but he was wide open and nobody's in the screen. Is that that special? Right? You know what I mean? So, oh wait, a top corner was covering him and he gave him a little move and then just blew by him.


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[Assistant] And the quarterback threw it 10 yards behind him. It was incomplete. That, that? Good play. That's the play. I go, damn, look at him. He just burned that guy. That's a top corner.


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[Assistant] I don't give a shit that he didn't catch the ball. He showed me that I know in the NFL the quarterback will be able to hit that throw. Right? So that to me is where some of the mis-evaluations or our thoughts get confused a little sometimes with that type of stuff. Does that make sense? I hope I explained it right. Totally. We all do it.


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[Assistant] Yeah, right, like in Devon today, he didn't feel comfortable making Quiniel Mitchell because he wants to see him against top guys, right? Yeah. You know, I obviously felt comfortable about that.


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[Assistant] You know, and I've been doing this a little bit, but like his point's real.


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[Assistant] Right? Again, I watch a good guard in the Big 12, and I watch a good guard in the SEC, and it's kinda equal.


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[Assistant] I'm going with the good guard from the SEC, cause I know he is blocking NFL defensive tackles, right? And the Big 12, I'm like, I don't know if there's an NFL defense alignment in the league, so I don't know what the hell is going on there, right?


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[Assistant] Well, my point, or like, the point shooting guard is neighbors, right?


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[Assistant] Right? I think it would be what, you know, what you want, right? Like in the perfect world, you know, yeaah.


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[Assistant] A guard wide receiver is like a little bit more of like, hey, he can dribble around everybody, he can hit shots, he can braid ankles, he can move around, do all that type of stuff, right? Now I need like a... Faster than everyone else out there. Faster than everybody else too, right? The best athlete on the court.


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[Assistant] Right? Odell, neighbors, Jamar Chase, right? Point guard, shooting guard, whatever. Killer, just kill you that way.


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[Assistant] But then you got like your T Higgins who's like a power forward. You need a little power forward every now and then. Yep. You know? Can't always get open. Sometimes you need to use the body and box him out a little bit and then you gotta throw the ball over there, right?


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[Assistant] The, the point guard, explosive guys, neighbors, right?


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[Assistant] The Odunze is the shooting guard, right? He's like, might not be the high flyer, he might not be the guy that can break your ankles, right? But he just knows how to play the game, and, you know, you get him open, he's gonna knock it down, right? He's kinda that guy, but you're not like, oh my gosh, did you see those quicks? Did you see that, that,


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[Assistant] That lift he had when he was going up for the dunk, but you're kind of like, man, he's good at everything. Ooh, look at him. Handle the ball, he's smooth. Ooh, ooh, and he's got a little like, fake and jewelry up and under. And you know what I mean? That, that's, that, that I hope can explain.


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[Assistant] Where it's like, yeah, he's just a freak and we're going to let him run up the court and fly over people and just make highlight type of shit happen, right? He's like your superstar high flying.


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[Assistant] Guard, neighbors is your point guard, and Marvin Harrison


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[Assistant] But yea, then, you know, but, but yea, I mean, like, uh, Jamar Chase and, and Odell are gonna dunk on us, and they're gonna D us up sometimes, and we're like, damn, I can't, I gotta shoot a old man fadeaway hook here to get a shot off.


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[Assistant] He would probably pull off a full few upsets, right? Like those teams are gonna, he's gonna be the most talented team in football. It's just not gonna be, they're gonna mess up.


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[Assistant] Yeah, right, right. You know, you take some of these college teams and I go, yeah, I don't think this college team can beat an NFL team, but you know, five years from now, if they get a little more experience, their talent level is already of an NFL team. I'm kind of curious.


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[Assistant] I-I-I'd be interested too. How would they do? The Bengals are the closest team I think to the basketball thing though. With Chameis Chase being the shooting guard, unbelievable guy, right?


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[Assistant] Or whatever you want to say. T Higgins being the power forward center type, right? And then like a Tyler Boyd.


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[Assistant] It's kind of that Odunze, hey, like, I can do a little everything. If you need me to, if you need me to run the point here for a few plays and Jamar Chase, you go do Shooting Guard, that's cool. Or, or just run some picks for me and when I'm open I'll knock it down and be like Roma, Roma Odunze, right? They're the closest ones to it.


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[Assistant] Tony took himself off the chain. How dare he. What about giants? Oh, mine's easy. I mean, you probably know mine.


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[Assistant] It doesn't matter. Daniel Jones, I mean, that's, I'm so sick of hearing that. I mean, con, constantly. Right. Right. It's just, it's annoying. Right. And then to the pizza in my ear going Tommy Cuddletts. So to that point too, and then like he comes in and it's just like, Whoa, we got our first down. And everyone's like, he's the greatest thing I've ever seen. He just


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[Assistant] Yeah, uh, but, but yeah, I, I get, I get a little sick of hearing Daniel Jones talk all the time, like I said.


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[Assistant] No, I mean they're dangling out there. I just don't see that being a Giants move. We got Daniel Jones, we owe him a ton of money, we got Drew Locke, we owe him a ton of money, and wait, we got all these other positions we kind of need help on, but let's get another quarterback. Let's just do that. I just don't feel like that. I agree. You know, so I don't know where that goes.


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[Assistant] New England, you know, like you said earlier, New England's the one that's gonna be interesting. And sometimes, you know, when I look at New England and I go, damn, is J.J. McCarthy not Tom Brady's younger brother? I mean, is he not meant to go there? I mean, he looks like Tom Brady.


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[Assistant] Yeah, my dad's agent early on in his career was more of an entertainment agent. And, uh, yeah, I got an autograph from Ringo Starrer. I got to meet him once as a young kid. Wow. Right. Him and, um,


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[Assistant] Gosh, one of the Eagles. I mean, how much do you think that thing would be worth? How much would that be worth? I don't even know. I have some, like, unbelievable autographs.


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[Assistant] I have a Muhammad Ali autographed glove, right? Geez.


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[Assistant] Some Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, I have a Michael Jackson autograph. They're all somewhere in your attic. There he is. Some of them I have, others are like, my mom's put them somewhere and I just gotta figure out what the hell they are.


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[Assistant] That's a good question there. Cause there's, hey listen, it's a balancing act. Let me just tell you.


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[Assistant] Cause if you sway too far on either way, that could mean the spins are coming and you're in trouble. I had that the other, I had that actually a few nights, a few weekends ago. I had family, I usually do a family dinner every Saturday night. Cook steaks.


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[Assistant] My kids, me, you know, maybe my daughter's boyfriend comes, whatever, but I try to do something. Sometimes my mom's there, my aunt's there, my mother-in-law was in town this week. All are welcome. Right. A few weekends ago my mom and dad came.


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[Assistant] And I had to leave the dinner table because I was like not feeling too good. Cause I pushed it a little too far. Right? I had smoked, I had drank a lot, and then I was like, ah, I'm gonna take a few more puffs.


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[Assistant] Right before we eat. Yeah. And I was a little too tipsy to have a few more puffs quite at that point. And I had about two bites of my steak and I was like, uh-oh. And they were like, my son was like, hell, you don't look good, dad, you look pale. And I was like, yeah, I don't feel good. Let me go outside. I walked around for a little bit. And then you were fine after that. I was fine. It took me a few minutes. But uhm, I think my, I always smoke first.