[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's more you've got to control a long breath. So your diaphragm, you're taking a deep breath and then you're slowly forcing that air across your tongue on the latex and controlling it as it goes up with tongue pressure and then you let off on tongue pressure and come down. So it's a completely different dynamic between the two calls and the same call that works for a turkey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably isn't the best call to use for an elk. So if you're trying your turkey calls, trying to bugle on them, that's probably the first thing that I would suggest changing is getting an actual elk diaphragm and then just work with tongue pressure to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gradually go through that spectrum of different octave changes, starting with low tongue pressure, adding tongue pressure to get the high note, and then dropping it off. And again, it's going to be that deep breath, and then slowly forcing that air across the latex instead of short bursts of air that a turkey call would have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They want to hit that high note, so the first thing they do is blow as hard as they can on that diaphragm. And that's the wrong way to do it because you're losing all your air, you're not going to have any consistency or control, so you want to use tongue pressure, very light air pressure to start with, and just get your tongue pressure so the harder you push with your tongue, the higher the note is, and then back down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From there you'll find that you want to add a little air pressure to hold that high note and then drop off. But yeaah, control everything consistent smooth with tongue pressure. Absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, question is that he tends to overpack and wants to know what the essential items are that he can put in his backpack to make sure he has everything he needs but not be carrying too much weight. And I'll turn that over to Randy, but I do want to make sure that you realize a 10 pound rock in your backpack is not necessary. Randy carries those around a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, just to add to that, I make a list of what I need.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then a list of what I want. And when you look at just the essentials, say I'm archery hunting in September, if I'm not bivvy hunting, I'm coming back to a base camp every day. The list of things I need is pretty mental. I need a license. I need an elk call. I need my weapon. I usually don't carry binoculars depending on the area we're hunting. I need a rangefinder. I need, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Food to get me through the day, which is pretty minimal because I'm eating breakfast before I go. I've got dinner waiting for me back there and I know I can make it at least 12 hours without food if I have to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm carrying as little food as I need to, but having enough to get by. And then I have a kill kit. So I carry, you know, a knife, game bags, an extra flashlight there just in case flashlight runs out in my essentials kit. And then, uh, I've got just, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hydration pack, typically. I usually carry probably 32 ounces of water and then capability to get more in the field if I need to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And really when you look at it like that, those are the essentials. Sure, it'd be nice to have this or be nice to have a padded seat to sit on when I sit down to eat my trail mix. You know, I start weeding things like that out because I just, I don't need them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the question is, during the rut, Randy, have you ever found yourself in the magic circle? And if so, how did you handle it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a special thing and I think, you know, we hope to experience something like that and you just have to, to play it by ear really. Cause every situation is different. Magic circle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is different every single day in every, every single different place. So I think, you know, just understanding are the elk on the move? Is there, is there chaos going on because there's a cow and estrus and the bulls are running around just bugling everywhere trying to get, you know, it's hard to get their attention when there's a cow and estrus doing that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, it happens fast, it's dynamic. You can't just have a plan in your head and go and try that. You have to realize what's going on and then make the best decision there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then when things kind of blow up, there's still little pockets of magic circle going on and then you can start.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Before we get to the next question, we're going to jump and take one from Instagram here. Do we have a question Daniel? So the question from Instagram live is if we could pick one state to hunt early season archery, what state would it be and why?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Finally, Randy said, can we just try spotting and stalking out in the grasslands?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the question is, you know, a high desert or a water dependent state like Utah where you have, you know, last year a very dry year, this year a very wet year, how does that affect your scouting as well as how does that change your hunting throughout the hunt as weather maybe changes or as the drought increases or decreases.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Randy has a lot more experience hunting those desert states of New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada than I do, so I'll let him take that one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or paralleling them, uh, we might get on a ridge that converges with another ridge, and now we have a new basin down in there to call into. But for the most part, as we're going up that ridge, as we call, the call's broadcasting up ahead of us a little bit, out alongside of us as well as back to where we've been.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the most part I'm not as worried about where we've been and that's where the thermals are going to actually be going because if I've done it right I've bugled from down below up into that and the bull's already answered. If he hasn't answered by the time I get up a little higher on the ridge where the thermals are now dropping into that draw


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hopefully he's heard my bugle, or I know that there's not an elk there. So I use the ridge to travel up, but I'm still trying to bugle more up ahead of me, up into a basin, far enough away that I can make a strategic play to get into position before the wind actually affects the elk. So I do travel up the ridge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once we do get a bugle, say we're on a ridge and a bull answers down in a basin below us, if the thermals are going down, typically we're going to have a finger ridge or something separating us and the elks. We can be strategic. We can come up with a plan that's going to allow us to move in on the elk without blowing them out. Sometimes though, you step up on a ridge and bugle and 100 yards down below you, a bull answers, the winds are going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That way and it's over right there. So, um, thermals are everything in hunting elk. You've got to prepare for it. You've got to plan for how you're going to approach an area based on the thermals. And then once you get a response, you definitely have to pay attention to those thermals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thermals are usually moving up or down the mountain. So we've got a thermal that's moving down in the morning, moving up in the afternoon, moving back down in the evening. If I can get perpendicular to that wind pattern and move across, if it does switch, if there's a swirl or something, it usually switches 180 degrees.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then the last question, how far will thermals carry in timbered country? Uh, you know, you've got all sorts of draws and you've got an open hillside and you've got shady hillside, north faces and everything. So thermals are just continually doing this and as they get farther away, they're a lot more diluted and not as, as much of an effect. But I have sat on a hillside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Knowing there was nobody else in there, so I don't even take a chance on distance. If the wind's moving in that direction, I've got to find a way to get completely around and get it in my favor. So, great questions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, it seems a little too small, and then you've tried the All-Star, which also has a small frame, but a bigger tape, and you feel it's a little too big, so you've trimmed it and still are having a little troubles with it. So the question is, are there modifications you can make to the diaphragm, or maybe a different diaphragm, or is there an external call that would work as a second replacement there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the, in the construction of a diaphragm call, you've got the latex, which actually is what makes the sound. And so you've got thickness of latex and you've got stretch on the latex, which really affect the sound that you're able to produce, the range of sounds, the, uh, the ease of usability of all of those things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then you've got the frame, and the frame closes over the latex, and that's what holds the latex in place. And the wider you get, or the narrower you get, again, is gonna change the tone, it's gonna change the variation of sound you make.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then lastly, you've got the tape and it's, you know, the tape that goes on there that kind of gives it structure so you can put it in your mouth. You don't have just a little piece of metal with latex and they're moving all over. So I think that what you're talking about is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the tape on the call feels too wide in your mouth, is that correct? It's the frame. Okay, so it's the frame.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so the frame's hitting on your teeth and you're unable to get it seated up in the roof of your mouth there. Okay, so you do have a very narrow pallet. If, if the, so the mini, the frame on the mini and the frame on the All-Star or the Champ or the Contender, any of those in the Elk 101 line should be the same frame.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So those should fit the same, they're just gonna have wider tape. So if the All-Star fits up in there a little better, but you've tried trimming it a little bit,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If, if the tape's too narrow, you're gonna get a lot of air escaping outside of the, of the latex. And you're not gonna be able to control it, you're not gonna be able to hold the high note as long so that the tape can really help.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hold that there, hold that air in there and channel it. So I wouldn't recommend trimming tape necessarily if it's a matter of the frame and you just can't get a frame to seat up in there. I'm guessing it'll sit on one side of your teeth and be up in the palate on the other side and so it's just sitting, you know, crooked and all that that makes it really hard to call with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What we can do, but when it comes to external diaphragms, the conqueror mouthpiece, uh, basically


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] takes the same frame, puts it in a mouthpiece, flips it around, and all you have to do is blow on it from the outside. So you can use your tongue or your lip the same, get a lot of control with it, you can still chuckle with it and everything, and I can show you that afterwards as well. So Randy and I will be over at the Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls booth from


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 3 to 4 today and probably there a few minutes early. If you were able to show up a few minutes early, I'd love to talk more on that. So, is that helpful? Excellent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the question is, specifically referencing Idaho, but there's several western states that have the same, uh, special situation that you referred to, and that being wolves. Uh, wolves have changed how elk respond specifically, and especially, so how do you handle hunting in a wolf-heavy area if you're wanting to call in elk? I live in Montana.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we came back to that initial drainage a week later, five or six days later, and the elk in there were bugling like crazy. So the wolves had moved out, the elk had picked up, but as soon as wolves are in the area, they just clam up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so I think being mobile is the key, finding those areas where the wolves aren't active and then getting in close. That bull that let out the little growl, he was 80 yards away before he felt comfortable enough to let out just a low growl.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the question is, uh, you hunt where there are a lot of sheep, domestic sheep, and you've always been told not to hunt deer and elk where there are domestic sheep, and you want to know our opinion. I guess my question back is have you been successful in that area?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll let you take stab and then I'll do the same, but I think our answer is going to be the same.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that'd be my answer too. And I guess, you know, like Randy said, it's multi-use land and we share it with everyone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The sheep grazers have an effect on hunting in my opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's the, that's the hard part when you're calling Elk is once they can see where you're calling from.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If they're coming towards you and say they get to 120 yards and they can see right where that sound's coming from, they're gonna stop there and wait until they see an elk to come any closer. They're using their sense of sight to keep them safe. If they can't see that, they're gonna use their sense of smell, so they're gonna circle down below you sometimes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That elk's gonna have to come in even closer to the collar before he can see where the sound's coming from. So you as the shooter set up out in front are gonna have an opportunity to get a shot hopefully before that elk stalls.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And hopefully he comes into your shooting range. So having a collar behind you is, is going to be the key. If you're a solo hunter, which I know a lot of people like solo hunting and that's the biggest question of the elk always hang up at 80 to 100 yards or always coming in frontal. I can't get a shot. What do you do?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to become a ventriloquist and that's really what it's about is fooling that elk to have to come in farther into the setup before he realizes you're right there or making him think that he's got to come, you know, another 60 yards to get visual. So you can do that by casting your bugles, your cow calls back behind you. And when you turn a bugle tube around and call from right behind you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That can throw that sound another 30 or 40 yards and make the bowl come in. The other thing that's important is your setup and you've got to set up in an area where that bowl has to get within 30 or 40 yards of you to be able to get a visual on where the call's coming from. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That would be my two suggestions, hunt with a partner or make sure the bull has to come in really close before he gets that visual. I have nothing to add.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the question is, if you're packing into the backcountry with horses, a couple of questions. Anything you need to know as a beginner packing with horses and then how much can an elk actually, or how much can a horse actually carry in or haul out?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess, where's the question coming from there? Gotcha. So to clarify the question, she has horses and uses, you know, for rodeo, team roping, all of that. Her husband is saying, you know, can we use the horses to hunt off of? And you're thinking, why would we go back into the back country on our feet when I have horses here? So, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As many rodeos as I've been involved in with horses, I've decided to just hike anywhere I need to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So how about a question from Instagram? Do we have another question Daniel from Instagram? So the question from Instagram live is what techniques do we use to keep meat from spoiling in the backcountry? So we're assuming probably archery season, early season type hunts where you're back in several miles. What, what do we use to make sure the meat stays good?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and just to add to that, you know, there's always the debate. Do you leave the bone in or do you bone the meat out? And I think if I'm in the back country and I'm going to leave that meat for three or four days, I'm leaving the bone in. And the reason why is when you bone all that meat out,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That first two hours is the critical part. Get the hide off the elk as quickly as possible. Get that meat opened up from the bone so that the heat can come out and get it in the shade and it's going to be fine for a handful of days, no problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the question is, full moon, New Mexico, uh, early season archery opens on the 5th, or the quarter moon's on the 5th, and then the full moon is 13th or 14th this year. So yea, 13th. Uh, so will that affect hunting New Mexico early archery?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd probably try not to but I think there's a couple combinations. Heat, Andy mentioned heat. If you get heat and a full moon at the same time,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's tough. The elk are just going to be bedding down at daylight and you aren't going to get much activity during the day, especially in places like New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada. Uh, the one thing to keep in mind is the rut. And the estrous cycle of the cows is really triggered by the daylight that enters the cow's pupil.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We, I think the fall equinox is September 21st this year, somewhere right in there. That's the day when the daylight hours equal the nighttime hours. It's equal night, equal day. That's what triggers the cow estrus. And so the estrus is usually going to kick off within five or seven days of the fall equinox.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now if you get a full moon right during that time, that could be putting more light into the pupil of the cows, and it might make the rut kick in another four, five, six days later. And we'll see that. We saw that when Randy and I hunted New Mexico.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was a full moon, it was hot, there were people everywhere, and we were hunting during the fall equinox. And the elk just weren't kicked into the peak rut yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so it's not as big of a factor from that standpoint. You're going to have heat to contend with. And the other thing to keep in mind is every day of that hunt, the bugling action is going to increase. The elk are going to be


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the question is how can you get to the herd bowl and weed through all the satellite bowls? How do you get past them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so you're calling, so you hear a bugle, you don't know how big it is, you set up, comes in, it's a raghorn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, if you, if you have a bull out there, feel free to be aggressive and walk in on it. And once you get within a hundred yards or something, maybe stand next to the tree and call and try to get it to come to you, but be a lot more aggressive and going in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and not wait each setup and, and, you know, spend 20 or 30 minutes calling in a bull when you can aggressively go towards it and get a shot with a rifle. So, are you, are you an archery hunter also?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that archery mindset is I've got to set up, I've got to get everything perfect and call the bull into my setup to get a shot. When you're hunting the peak rut with a rifle, you don't have to do that. You can be a lot more aggressive. All you need is five or ten seconds of that bull with inside of you and you get a shot. So I would definitely do what Randy said.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Blow through them. Once you get visual on them, don't worry about bumping them. They aren't going to go back and alert the herd. There's danger as long as you have the wind in your favor. Keep going and pushing on until you get into the herd.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That and calling, don't discount calling in the middle of the day during that peak rut. Those herd bulls will be very, the cows are set up there, they're very territorial and protective and you can get in there and challenge a herd bull a lot and get him to come in and chase you off, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, it was, it was myself and Dwight Hsu, uh, and then my son, basically.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we had hunted 18 days before we got the first elk on video.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We didn't have a cellphone doing the video. We had a camera that weighed


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He wants to know where I'm at and all that. And anyway, after talking to him a little bit, I said, okay, come out the house. And so we, he did and interviewed me and then it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Came about was just talking honey and I said, Oh, I see an article on outdoor life about stock and mule deer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Larry D. Jones' Elk Bugle, which had a stainless steel reed in it, was really the first elk, uh, call on the market that sounded like an elk. You know, pretty close to it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I had to go to a big production house and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, you, you also gotta look at it as, as promotion. Yeah. Uh, but, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it was, it was a job. So did it sell a lot of elk cough? Uh, I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the times I remember that stuck out so clearly in my mind, I was actually in New Mexico.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This, uh, outfitter called me and he had some guides and he wanted me to school his guides. And so we were in his house and he had, I think the kid was like six years old.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They can align themselves very easily with mistakes because we all make them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yeaah, I think that's critically important. I mean it's, it's part of what happens. Even if you're the best shot in the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 17 other productions. They were our productions. Some of them was shorter than that. One of them was just a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How to call, a tape on how to call, you know, and I had another video which uhm, I called Elk Memories, which was really about how to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and, and my, myself, I'll go to a hunting seminar of somebody that's maybe the same subject, Cabell, and I'll listen to every word he's got because he might say one thing, one little thing that might make a difference in my hunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And back, back when I started, there wasn't very much, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even if we do it, I mean last year on Mule Deer Hunt and the last day we hiked 15 miles out of the Ruby Mountains. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But anyway, with Dwight, he was, he was a wonderful Christian man. That, that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeaah, and so he said, I want you to go because these other guys screw you up. And I said, Dwight, I can screw you up just as easy as somebody else. He says, yeaah, but then we can kiss and make up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My wife Miriam has been very, you know, very, very good about saying, yeah, go ahead and hunt. But I do remember one time she says, I think you've been gone enough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's, cause when he's hunting, he's not at a bar or chasing other women. You know, he's doing something he enjoys. And so be thankful for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I can say, yo, you gotta go up over these mountains, you gotta find this stuff, and if you look on a map, here's where you're gonna find the elk, and blah, blah, blah, right? Yeah. But, uh, if someone from...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 20 miles of timber and valleys and, you know, and that's where the elk are, you know. So that's a hard part for people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, but also, it's a lot harder to call Elkin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's multiple seasons for a lot of people. Exactly. That's my whole point. And nowadays the Elk are educated enough that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they are hard to kill. You just get lucky sometimes, but usually it takes a lot of grit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, you have to get after them and sometimes you can, you know, circle around or be patient and ease in on them and get them. But, I think it's harder today to kill them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even though I'm 77, I hike daily, not daily, you know, quite often.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With my pack on, carrying 25 pounds, up some steep stuff, you know, usually I hike Mt. Pisgah, which he only got a little third of the weight up to film part of this production.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you know, even if I pound away at it and towards elk season I'll be doing it more often, harder stuff, I'm never ready for elk hunting. Physically I'm never ready. And it's hard. But that's where they live.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We wouldn't be doing it. If we could kill an elk every time it went out the door, I mean, shoot. No, it's a challenge. I love challenges.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he shot a moose. He asked me to go with him to help him butcher it and get it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I heard somebody say that Clint Eastwood, someone asked him, how do you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're privileged to have this foundation. So we'll have help.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well folks, we are, uh, we, I am Randy Newberg and you are? I'm Corey Jacobson and we're here with? David Brinker. David Brinker the man. The David Brinker.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here we go. This is the Elk Talk podcast from Big Sky Montana Total Archery Challenge brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, if you want to go to one of my TV episodes out on my Amazon channel or my, uh, YouTube channel, David's in full display of how to use a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we want to make sure that you know that Gerber Gear, the maker of fine knives and tools, makes this podcast possible. I would suggest anybody who's an outgunner go out and get one of the Gerber Vitals and one of the Gerber Big Game Vitals. They have their replaceable blades and they have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The replacement mechanism dialed in. There's no more of this where you're going to cut your finger off kind of thing, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also brought to you by the maker of the Sitka Mountain Shorts. Yeaah. So David, you used to work at Sitka. How did he score a pair of Mountain Shorts?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We did a whole podcast and then we go to get lunch and we're in the restaurant and I'm like, where'd my pockets go?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that morning, because I had to get up at like four in the morning to drive to Missoula, I'm like, man, Sitka, they put the buttons on like on a woman's shirt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll do that, you do the puking. I'll do the laundry, you do this list of things. So, I mean, I could go to the laundromat and I could read Filmstream magazine or Google magazine or whatever. That's a good system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're going to hear so much about that, especially when we start talking about researching and draws and everything else. Uh, but we really are encouraging people right now because for a short window of time, they have this 30 day free trial. We don't know how long they, they won't tell us how long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you don't, you don't want to pose on that. So he better keep making good calls.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what we're looking for. And David, if you want to buy some, you go to RockyMountainHuntingCalls.com and use this promo code I wrote down right here, Elk Talk. Okay. And they'll give you 15% off. Alright, I was kinda hoping Cory would bring me some this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know. It's one of those things where I think of, how did I hunt before I had this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we're doing an e-scouting series with them, uh, on our YouTube channel. And so far we've released the intro video.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On Monday it's how to use hunting pressure, uh, and then we get into a whole bunch more of them.


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[Assistant] Okay, so that said, the question that we've been asking all of our guests is when we say elk hunting mistake, what's the first thing that comes to your head of your mistakes you've made?


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[Assistant] And then, before we get on to number two of your elk hunting experience, has a lot of it been Roosevelt?


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[Assistant] What are the things David would say? Hey, don't do what I did.


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[Assistant] So that's why, if you hear Cory interjecting that, that's where it's coming from. Not that there really are. I've lived here for 20, almost 28 years, and I've yet to see a 400-inch, even close to a 400-inch bowl out living around Bozeman. I'm not saying there isn't one running around here, but if there are guys seeing them on a regular basis,


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[Assistant] That is really a good comment, David. I get so many people who are like, some guy stopped me the other day and he has the tag you and I had in New Mexico.


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[Assistant] That's the, I think the last part of what you said there David is that makes you happy. Don't, I, I did it when I first started, I mean I drew a Unit 10 early rifle tag in Arizona. I mean, you talk about


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[Assistant] Pressure. There's only 25 tags and I've got one of them and everyone's like, well, if you don't shoot a 390 bull, you've wasted the tag. I felt so much pressure. I was like, man, this is almost not even fun.


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[Assistant] I hope people really listen to that comment because it is about going out and enjoying the experience and not having that. We've all had that walk up feeling of huh. And it's because you put some pressure or expectations on yourself that as you


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[Assistant] 10 years from that time, you will look back and say, why did I, what, what was I thinking? And so.


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[Assistant] Yeah, if you come home all mad and ornery because you didn't get what you wanted, your hunting days might get shortened.


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[Assistant] And I get a lot of people who are doing their e-scouting and since we've launched this series with OnX, I'm getting three or four emails a day with a map.


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[Assistant] The very first question I ask him is, what is the season you're hunting? Because if you're hunting archery season,


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[Assistant] And they're looking for cows and cows are looking for food.


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[Assistant] This whole sanctuary thing doesn't apply. No. Yea, all things being equal, they'd rather be undisturbed. Right. But.


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[Assistant] They're gonna go where the cows are, and the cows are going where the best food is. It's just that simple.


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[Assistant] I get that maybe you want to go do a big back country hunt.


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[Assistant] For that backcountry experience. Yeaah, that's amazing. But don't think that...


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[Assistant] In an early season when they're on food, in a pre-rut or a peak rut when it's about breeding, you gotta go look for sanctuaries. That's a rifle kind of late, later part of the year, post-rut, late season tactic is sanctuary.


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[Assistant] We went through them. You gotta go listen to podcast number two and three.


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[Assistant] Uh, well you don't gotta worry about me doing any karaoke.


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[Assistant] Okay, you're right, yeaah, okay, you're right. But, uh, whereas my question I was gonna ask is, David, you, you, you, I admire how you found another passion in your life, or have always had music as a passion in your life, and I think we all end up


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[Assistant] Well, the reason I ask is a lot of people ask me, well, how did you decide you were going to do this, start some platform about public land hunting and like this nebulous intangible brand from, I mean, I wasn't selling widgets or anything.


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[Assistant] Hunting taught me so many life skills throughout my life that have applied to business. You go out hunting?


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[Assistant] You don't get to control all the variables. This is not like a business textbook where you'd write a business plan and everything goes according to that. And every day you wake up and, and okay, I set my calendar and my calendar goes just according to plan. Just like hunting.


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[Assistant] For me, I could list off so many life skills that hunting has taught me. The fact that I know I go out 19 days or 20 days, 19 days I'm probably going to fail. And it just, it doesn't faze me.


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[Assistant] I think a lot of people remember that Babe Ruth hit 714 home runs, but nobody knows he struck out over 3,000 times.


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[Assistant] You fail regularly. You have to learn. You think about when you're out hunting.


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[Assistant] I'm reading the landscape, I'm reading what I heard, what I saw, the tracks, the weather. I'm taking in so much information so quickly and making decision after decision after decision. In the course of a hunting day, I bet you I've made 500 decisions. I don't realize it, but I have.


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[Assistant] And then for me another part of it has been I quit one thing in my life when I was younger I quit something and it still sticks with me today that I will never quit ever again. Never again will I quit.


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[Assistant] And when I'm out hunting, the conditions say I should quit, the hunting pressure says I should quit.


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[Assistant] Just, I might be feeling like crap, whatever it is.


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[Assistant] I'm just not going to quit. That's a good rule to live by. Yeah. I mean, if quitting is not an option.


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[Assistant] Hunt the day out, give it hell, and it's amazing how many times I've thought about quitting and said no, I don't quit. And ended up...


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[Assistant] Filling a tag that day or learning something that helped me fill a tag the next day or the day after.


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[Assistant] And they migrate and spend the winter over in what's called the Madison Valley. They gotta go over the Madison Range. And in 2004, uh, a guy who came to Montana


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[Assistant] A lot of stuff that had been platted for 20 acre parcels.


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[Assistant] And he was going to go put cabins in there. And the Forest Service denied him a permit to cross the creek, to build a bridge across the creek.


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[Assistant] So Alex put the deal together, uh, quietly. He worked with, uh, Ron Marku and he, Ron was the lands guy at the Elk Foundation at the time. And, uh,


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[Assistant] If you think about what would happen to those elk herds if the tailors fork was now a bunch of cabins on 20 acre arsels. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] Know that those animals would not have a place to go in winter.


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[Assistant] Well, I live in the Northern Rockies in Montana where public land grazing gets a really hard ride from, from hunters. And we have water in every drainage. And so if someone sees some elk crap or cow crap or like damn cattle ran them all out of here.


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[Assistant] Uh, but yet if I go to New Mexico or Arizona where water is very, very rare, uh,


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[Assistant] Most of the man-made water that exists is because of these public land grazers for their cattle. So...


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[Assistant] The, the political dynamics of it is I, I get that some people don't like to have cattle where they're hunting.


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[Assistant] The flip side of it is, I like those water improvements that bring more habitat value to those lands in really arid climates. As far as how do elk respond? I don't know.


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[Assistant] Science, all the studies you read say that they'll coexist within a general area, but not within...


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[Assistant] So they're competing for the same food sources as cattle? Sometimes. But they also, there's studies that show in certain landscapes that they select for different


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[Assistant] I'm really into the science and the ecology of elk and you, in the west, you got public land grazing on the BLM and the Forest Service and on state land. So you have to understand that that's part of the use of the land. And I've, I've had elk temporarily be displaced by cattle presence.


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[Assistant] But it's not like, oh, they're gone forever. They might be back in there in a month or they might surely be back in there in the next year or whatever, but I don't know. You might have a different experience.


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[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


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[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. To become a member, go to rmef.org.


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[Assistant] Our number one, I would, don't you think? Hands down. Yea, if we went through and sorted all of our emails that come to the Elk Talk podcast, and where are those, where are they?


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[Assistant] Yeah, and for me, uh, at this point in my life, and I know there was a time I wouldn't have felt this way, but I do now, I've shot enough bulls that if you gave me the choice, uh, cause a lot of tags you get are either sex or cow or branch antler.


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[Assistant] Until December 31st. So, I'm probably gonna go down there and try to find a bit of public land. There's not a lot of public land, but I had Marcus, my camera guy, applying the leftover draw.


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[Assistant] He's very, very proficient. His freezer is seldom empty. Uh, and I think it's cool. He gets really excited about it. And it's an early time of the year before any real rut or buglings going on. And uh, that's one strategy that


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[Assistant] I don't know that they would have came in during that evening hour. So I see that as a strategy of when you go and sit water, think about what the wind's doing when you think they're going to come in, not when you get to your blind.


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[Assistant] And kinda like when you do a setup, you're calling in a bowl, what does he do? He circles down when...


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[Assistant] The setup, the men, you know, how you're thinking out this through. The same way you do with a setup when you're trying to call a bowl in.


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[Assistant] When they're coming in and when they're going out, because you know they're going to be coming with the wind in their face, so.


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[Assistant] We hope they're going to use this trail tonight, but okay, maybe they'll use trail number two, but at least we're not going to blow them out of there because if they smell you there, the game is probably over for quite a while.


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[Assistant] To build up what they need to get through this upcoming winter. So with that...


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[Assistant] If you understand what the preferred food is for cow elk, I don't care what period of the year you're hunting them, you're gonna find the greatest likelihood, or the places with the best food are gonna have the greatest likelihood of having.


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[Assistant] For some reason, there are certain ridges or certain basins or certain drainages that that's where they all congregate to rush.


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[Assistant] So if that's where they're at, and it's September 12th, do you ever call them in?


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[Assistant] That's where they're at. And so, kinda like sometimes you try to get between two bulls or you try to get between a bull and his, what you think is his cow.


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[Assistant] I think cows are more predictable for a couple of reasons. One, their need doesn't change as much as a bull. They aren't pressured as much, so even though they're still smart,


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[Assistant] As the weather turns and gets colder, the...


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[Assistant] The amount of quality forage that's on the hill or on the landscape gets less and less and less. And both in terms of quality and volume. And so the cows have fewer and fewer options to keep themselves on that highest nutritional plane.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and I just use that as an example. In Nevada, I've seen them come down lower into these big juniper flats and pinyon juniper flats. And I've seen them just...


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[Assistant] And well, why would they do that? Well, maybe it was a drought year and the grasses aren't really what they needed. And they've decided that the juniper berries are a better risk reward or cost benefit.


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[Assistant] The change of what is the most preferred food source, the landscape almost looks similar in terms of altitude, elevation, in terms of canopy, so why would they move from here to over there four miles away?


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[Assistant] As quick as this some period in the fall when the forage dries up, the nutritional value has reduced to a point where now this dough, or in this case a cow out, is starving


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[Assistant] Between now and when it greens up again in the spring. Her goal is, I know I'm going to be starving for the next six months.


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[Assistant] The transition range to the summer range, because it would happen very slowly.


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[Assistant] Now, over however many decades that, uh, we've had changing weather patterns or whatever you want to call it, that green line and that snow line has been accelerating up the transition range way faster. So they go, they, they don't spend as much time on the, on the, uh,


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[Assistant] They're worried that this lower nutritional plane, as they've had to get up to the summer range a lot faster, they aren't recovering as quickly and they're coming into cycle later than


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[Assistant] The herds that have access or whether it's access to or the lead cow who knows where the best food is, they could be in the same general area.


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[Assistant] When I first moved here in 1991, that was only about, mmm, 1200 acres.


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[Assistant] For $35. For $35. They're gonna send you a $40 Gerber Vital Knife.


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[Assistant] The key to understanding things, all of a sudden you can read everything.


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[Assistant] But my ability to access it?


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[Assistant] At least five years, one of the reasons we moved to Patia from Chiang Mai was because I could not learn flinch up in the north.


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[Assistant] That many people say to me when they're looking at me training with these people is,


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[Assistant] With each trainer or teacher or whatever the thing is. But recently I've been kind of...


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[Assistant] Experimenting with the vocabularies from each of those conversations in my own work.


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[Assistant] And so, when I'm clinching at the gym, there are things that don't.


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[Assistant] Frame or move or do these other things and so to transition between them it's being able to shut out your opponent's flexibility from two different angles.


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[Assistant] But when it's not a move, but rather like, actually vocabulary.


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[Assistant] Uhm, I was able to experiment more. So the reason I was able to experiment was because there wasn't so much consequence to taking the risk.


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[Assistant] Uhm, so there were times when like, it didn't work.


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[Assistant] So I still sometimes get thrown from Pinu into...


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[Assistant] Uhm, training partner sometimes, but because that's not my only thing, because I can compare it to other, uh, scenarios, and there's a very recent, this was actually right before my like breakthrough, sorry.


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[Assistant] Uh, where like, I went and fought in Trot, and that was where we were like, holy shit, Sylvie's clinch vocabulary just... Shot up. Shot up.


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[Assistant] Which is a way of clinching where one person stays it all the time. And when someone gets dominated or thrown down or whatever...


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[Assistant] But I would be man in the middle with, uhm, sometimes three partners, but Pinu was having me go against, uhm, a Swedish woman who's much bigger than me and strong, but not super skilled.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and then he would have me either have the second person be another person who is bigger than me.


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[Assistant] And so it actually forces you into relying more on technique, which I didn't do before. I would just use strength against strength all the time.


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[Assistant] Like when you have the inside position and someone wraps their arm around the outside of your arm and is like pushing your face or something.


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[Assistant] If you, uh, keep your elbow on the front of someone's chest, you always have this little door jam to create space. Whereas if you go over their shoulder, you can't create space anymore.


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[Assistant] And he's like, no, no, no, you should have your arm over like this. And I'm like, wait. Wait. You said that to him? Yeah.


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[Assistant] And I got kind of frustrated and I was like, what do I do to him?


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[Assistant] He does this thing when he's writing where he'll choose the word.


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[Assistant] Totally pulls in French words all the time. I don't speak French at all.


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[Assistant] My Muay Thai, because I fight people who are so much bigger, is limited by the fact that they're so much bigger.


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[Assistant] Ticks and like, uh, you know, kind of more finessed.


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[Assistant] Not resisting states so much. So a lot of people when they're trying to meditate will get really frustrated when their mind wanders because it's not focused and


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[Assistant] I think that I get really frustrated in Muay Thai because...


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[Assistant] My body is doing or my mind is doing things that Vipassana has taught me are natural states.


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[Assistant] I'm having a very easy time focusing on the now and the present moment of what position the body is in, what the mind is doing, and like, oh that's very easy, but...


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[Assistant] Then you're just going through a routine. You're not actually looking at what's happening. You're supposed to be observing what's actually happening. So to have the opportunity to practice Vipassana when you're angry.


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[Assistant] When you're frustrated, when you're tired, when you actually don't want to be sitting there, like all of these different things teaches you way more about the


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[Assistant] Outweighs me by like 10 kilos or more maybe. Uhm, but he's short and pudgy and not super strong. Uhm, so.


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[Assistant] He can use power on me and weight on me at times, uh, which makes the risk real in the things that I'm working on. Uhm, but it's not.


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[Assistant] I didn't even like decide to do it. I just started transitioning between banks lock.


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[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson.


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[Assistant] It's a documentary project, it's archival, but it's also a library, so you learn from it, it's incredible.


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[Assistant] And all the merchandise in the store, uh, if it's not specific, like Karhat goes to Karhat, Yokunpan goes to Yokunpan, Dieselnoi to Dieselnoi, if it's not specific, it goes into the crew fund, which helps support, um, all the crews and legends in the Muay Thai library, like as a...


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[Assistant] Uh, composed and performed for like an amphitheater or for like...


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[Assistant] Compressed folder, you do not get that dimension of sound. You can't get that dimension of sound.


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[Assistant] Totally imagine the difference between, uh, I'm preparing for a 25 round fight.


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[Assistant] Versus a fighting a 10 round fight. Like those are insanely different things.


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[Assistant] Something that we talked about in our original conversation about the compression and something that you mentioned about like a 15 year old kid finding Led Zeppelin on iTunes now and listening to it, they're not hearing what Led Zeppelin actually wrote.


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[Assistant] We've heard, I've never heard them live, but we've heard older Led Zeppelin, so our brains kinda make up for it even when we hear the cheaper version.


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[Assistant] Is that his idols and like his references and like who he thought was amazing.


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[Assistant] Are from way before what we can even access because there's not video of Silver Age fighters really.


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[Assistant] But he's the type of man who's like always giving reference, giving reference, giving reference. So he's constantly pulling these references with him all the time. Yeaah. And even hippie in our uhm,


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[Assistant] Third library session with him, he actually tells a story about how he would steal from


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[Assistant] Fighters, he would watch Diesel Noy and steal something that Diesel Noy had done.


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[Assistant] And so that's, that's pulling the references, but why diesel noise is such a strange or beautiful example of that.


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[Assistant] Is that, Diesel Noi himself had no footage, like there's not a lot of footage of Diesel Noi but everyone knew who he was from like a photograph in a newspaper. And so the reference of Diesel Noi is actually largely


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[Assistant] Lead zeppelin themselves say that they are heavily influenced by like lead belly.


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[Assistant] If you've never heard Lead Belly, you're like, okay, I guess it's kinda like blues.


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[Assistant] But that's what I'm saying, is that you can be influenced by but not actually like, impacted by kind of thing.


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[Assistant] So like the, the influences that these golden age or silver age fighters talk about, we don't have...


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[Assistant] He said, so it's the current king, but at the time he was the prince and Diesel and I was like, the prince was in attendance and I couldn't stand up.


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[Assistant] Well, Padesh Sook was given his trophy, his, uh, prince's cup that he's named for by the prince. It was a huge thing. It's like, it becomes your title.


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[Assistant] Yeah, now it's more like gym oriented, I think. What?


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[Assistant] Karahat, Dieselnoi. Dieselnoi was at the Hopalong Gym, so there's actually quite a few amazing fighters from that gym. But like, Karahat's the only superstar to come out of his gym. Hoodpadnoi is the only one with the War War Root.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so what I'm saying is no longer is the reference, where does Tawan Chai come from, Chon Buree, nobody thinks about that, instead is where, what gym is he at now. Okay. That's the reference.


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[Assistant] But I think actually, and this was not part of our conversation before, I just thought of it as you were saying that, but that


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[Assistant] Fact is probably the most, uhm,


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[Assistant] When I hear the like, gambling has ruined Muay Thai, I'm really not sympathetic to this argument.


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[Assistant] Saying that gambling has ruined Muay Thai in that sense, where commercialism makes it so that you want a song that can play 90 times on the radio and it's got like hook, chorus, hook.


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[Assistant] Whereas before when people like wanted to hear a 13 minute song, that's who- They were gamblers back in the day, but there were fans of Muay Thai that were like, I wanna see a fucking like narrative fight.


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[Assistant] What were we listening to recently that started with a fucking like, two minute long drum solo?


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[Assistant] There are no instrumental solos anymore. Like I grew up with Guns N' Roses, I love Guns N' Roses, there was always a slash guitar solo.


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[Assistant] Right, which goes together when you have international commerce like that, that's how plagues work.


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[Assistant] Well this is the thing is when there's like massive change that kind of it's like you throw the grenade and have to jump like these are the kinds of changes that come about with like catastrophic.


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[Assistant] Uh, plague or cities burning or like whatever the thing is.


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[Assistant] That causes like, kind of rapid development. Even if it...


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[Assistant] Causes being kicked backwards first is that


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[Assistant] I hate to use such a trendy term, but like the new normal that comes after that remains the new normal for so long that you don't know where those changes came from.


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[Assistant] We, we were fighting in the time of Rama IX.


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[Assistant] There are these things that just pop and they're huge, so I don't know what the like, huge positive thing...


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[Assistant] That will come out of the changes in Muay Thai is, but it's there.


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[Assistant] It's not only what you pull, like what you save out of the fire, but-


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[Assistant] In the example of the angel, the angel can pull more if it's connected to other things. Like pulling individual items, they lose their reference. Like they don't, they're not connected to things.


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[Assistant] So pulling things that are connected to other things, pulling the references with them is important. I keep thinking about how like Joe


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[Assistant] Hongtong was talking about how back when he was a kid with his twin brother,


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[Assistant] You would have to like, wake up to watch Muay Thai, his dad would like come-


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[Assistant] Wake him up and be like, come watch this fight. Like there were no, oh, I'll click on this YouTube link and watch this. It wasn't on TV all the time. Like you had to witness it live and then maybe there would be highlights.


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[Assistant] What's amazing about that reference for learning Muay Thai when you cannot see it all the time is you actually are stealing


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[Assistant] Auras. You're like, you be Tremont Pet, I'm gonna be-


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[Assistant] They would, they would, it would be the same thing as how if you picture any little kid who's like, you're Spider-Man, I'm Thor, let's go. You have to act like Spider-Man, I have to act like Thor, we're gonna go do our thing. So these kids would watch a fight between like, Chumwook Pet and Sang Tionoy, and then each would be that person and re-enact it playing together.


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[Assistant] And this is how Wang Chenoy teaches this one jumping kick, so that's how I do it.


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[Assistant] Instead, they're impersonating Wang Qunai. And I feel like that, that way of learning versus our like super saturated,


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[Assistant] Look up the YouTube video, imitate it kind of thing is, uhm, it's like back in Shakespeare's day.


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[Assistant] I remember that one funny line from that one Seth Rogen movie. It's not the same thing. The brain works differently. So while I think it's a super positive thing that with the internet the way that it is now, we can like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Super spread the seeds of Sanctianoi. There's no more Sanctianoi. There will no longer be any new videos, but you can like super spread what there is. I think that's beautiful, but there is something lost to the Joe and Jen, like, let's imitate these superheroes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Nung Tung's name, you'll see it's Kiat Busaba, which is the Thai, the Thai name of Lanna Muay Thai.


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[Assistant] No, we had even seen the movie and we had like no idea that it was the same.


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[Assistant] Nongtume is a huge inspiration. She's, uhm, kind of this...


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[Assistant] It's not even that she's a superstar, it's that she's got this kind of like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Incredible life story, and uhm, for people who have never heard of Nongtoom, she was, uh, fighting as a man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Through the process of fame and, um, earning fight money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Outside of Thailand, people talk about how tolerant Thailand is of, uh, they call them Katoi here, which is not entirely a polite word, but uhm, so like, male to female trans is, uh, considered very


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Levels of intolerance that are incredibly harsh still.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and part of what Nongtum was experiencing is that if you're talking about like an ID card or something that's like your actual national identity, you cannot change your sex in Thailand. So, uh, Nongtum being able to fight


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't want to call it a gimmick because what she was doing was very real, but her kind of like fame point was wearing lipstick and makeup but fighting men.


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[Assistant] I was fighting, I was fighting on like this Warriors or something in Chiang Mai and she was also on the card. So Nongtum, San Chai, and I were all on a card and I was just like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very, very sweet, uhm, and just this amazing energy, like she has that star power energy about her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think for trans people, thinking of her as trans is very important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Representation makes sense, I'm identifying with the parts of her that match with my experiences, which, her experiences as a woman. Uhm, but, I'm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With her, I'm not like a super fan of hers because of how she fights or who she fought or any of these things like this. It's like who she is in the battles that she had kind of surrounding her identity to become who she is and what she ultimately wanted to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Golden age fighters, I look at how they fight.


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[Assistant] This kind of thing, which is different. Uhm, but leading from


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[Assistant] Uhm, I again was in a gym, although I was at the gym first.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We used to watch Petty Jaw live on TV, like we were legit watching Petty Jaw on TV at the time that she was fighting, it was like, contemporary. Whereas now this is in the past.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sajeejah was like 11 years old and she would fight boys. On TV, on uhm, Aswandam.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which doesn't exist anymore, but it was this, it was this huge thing, this little girl fighting little boys, uhm, and beating them, but her capacity as a fighter, she was just so good. Like, we would see her change between fights.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And her level was so above mine, this was not a like, oh wow she's really shaping up, this was like, she's so much better than me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Should we change this by the way?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's fine. And when you would mention her, like at the gym or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the Thai men, all the Thai trainers would be like, same a boy, same as a boy, same as a boy. Which they don't say about anybody.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this was, initially I was talking about Petri Jha up at Lana because that's where we were, but she was fighting for the time when I transitioned. So we came down to Petru Ngrung in Patia and we moved, it wasn't when we had moved yet, we were just visiting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we're talking about Petty Ja, and Crnoo's just like, oh no, she used to live at my gym, she lives right back there, like currently lives across this chicken farm.


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[Assistant] And I was totally starstruck by this. She was probably like 12 years old at the time.


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[Assistant] And then we had to build up the courage to actually cross the chicken farm and like go to their gym and watch the training with her and her brother Mawin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So then I ended up training with Petju Ja when we moved from Chiang Mai down to Patia and Petru Ngarim became my gym and I was also training with Petju Ja and her brother, like, the two gyms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, she had already been banned from fighting boys on TV at that point. So that stopped before I got to her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When, when Pet G Jog got banned from fighting boys anymore?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was so abrupt. She and her opponent were in the ring and had done their Ram-Moi. And then, Mr. Pinsenshy...


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[Assistant] Uh, got, he's the man who puts on this promotion, got in the middle of the ring with his microphone and said, this will not be happening because it's no longer appropriate for girls to be fighting boys on TV. Technically, this is not allowed in Thailand by the sport authority, but it is so permitted anywhere outside that she was doing it on TV that it got like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the fact that they were in the ring, did their Ram-Moy, and then it got shut down means that either...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember early when we had moved to Patia and I had been training with them, but it was like within the first couple months. And, um, I wanted to take Petty Ja and Mawin to a movie. I wanted them to like go see a movie in a theater because their family doesn't have money. They don't do stuff like this. I just thought it'd be like a nice treat. So, uh, their dad was like, they have to finish training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they finished training and then the two of them and their cousin, IQ, so cute.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, their dad drove us all to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the movie theater and we were totally late and it was like chaotic, but I remember on the drive there,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Sang Hwa Yeon, her father, was like shaking his head in disapproval and saying that Pat Ji Ja was a tom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so this at the time I didn't understand because my own...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Understanding of identities and concepts was just limited and that's just on me. Pachijod didn't look like a tom at the time. A tom is basically like a butch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she just looked like a normal 13 year old girl. She had the school haircut, she dressed the way...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A kid doing Muay Thai does. She occasionally would try on her brother's school clothes for photos and would be like, I don't wanna be a boy, I'm just trying it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Tom is short for Tom Boy, but it's basically like a butch girl who often will have a girlfriend, who is called a D, who has the more feminine identity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In these relationships where there's a Tom, which is the masculine one and a D, which is the feminine one, very often the D will go on to heterosexual relationships later. Toms don't necessarily, unless it's like marrying for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was very shocked when he said this, because unless she doesn't look like, dress like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, it is not common to have Katoi or the like male to female fighters outside of kind of like show fight type stuff. Up in Chiang Mai there were actually a few.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But in terms of like frequency of Tom fighters, which is the masculine female version,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you have like a mostly female or largely female gym like Leon Pursert or Patong Pong, I would say


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Five out of land per cert where there are like 13 girls or something like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lot of girls together rather than like this gym has one, that gym has one. You don't get a lot of Tom's that way, I don't think. But I'm not sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was raised and treated like a boy. Like when she was at, uh, Petron Grung living in this little like corner room with her family and Kroonu never took credit for her. He's like, oh no, she just clenched and worked with my boys. But she was thrown in with the little boys because at that age,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She became a stadium fighter. She's better than him, honestly. So, she, in her, in her, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Having her brother with her, it's not this like, oh, he'll pull her up. You also as a fighter, having someone who you can dominate, who you can do things with, it was this perfect little pairing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And to catch people up because people don't know what happened at Petgy Josh. She actually went


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] onto the Thai boxing team, the national boxing team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, she is fighting for Thai fight, so she's fighting women who are...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you can see how she's developed, but you can also see how she's lost.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I was at Petrengrung for a while, and then Angie showed up just kind of like for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Angie, Angie has transitioned, Angie has had top surgery, she's been taking hormones for more than 10 years by the time I've met her, yeaah. Uhm, and she was just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I thought you told me- She said she was worried about, uh, being by herself. Things like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Angie, Angie's trajectory herself is incredible by itself. The connection to me, to me is really remarkable because when she saw me at the gym, I inspired her to be like, I want to do that for real. Why was that? Because you were female?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Angie started coming by herself, like she didn't need a friend anymore, and she started getting more and more serious about it, and she wanted to fight, and so they gave her some fights locally.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and, Krunu admitted many times to me that he-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He doesn't have anything against Katoi, but he was like, I never liked when Katoi would come to my gym because they don't take it seriously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His becoming open to her and taking her seriously, I believe had a lot to do with...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The work I put in of having a small woman


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] cis woman putting in all that work, Angie looking to me, Angie following me, I think that that openness to Angie


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is not entirely due to me, but was definitely influenced by...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He had Peggy Ja, but she was not part of his gym, like he did not have experience with like a for-wrong female who was taking it very seriously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When she started fighting, like even just local fights, but when she started fighting and started getting into the like fight training, and it was important to her to get faster at running and things like this, Angie and I aren't the same size, like not even remotely. She fought at like 64 or something and she's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 5'10", she's pretty tall. We couldn't like work together, but just having another woman in the gym who was working, who was serious, it was like, we are not directly doing anything with each other, but we can look at each other and be like, alright, here we go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, but what was crazy about the pair of us, and I think I wrote about this on 8 limbs a few times, but ultimately Angie ended up being the first


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Visibly trans fighter at Lumpini. Uhm, it happened at the same time that Nong Rose started fighting at Rajadamnir and so they actually, for Nong Rose, changed the dress code which made it possible for Angie to fight at Lumpini. You didn't used to be able to wear any kind of top.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and they changed that for Nong Rose, and so they changed it for Angie, and she was able to fight, and I was just so unbelievably proud of her. But, the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The things that we experienced, me as a cis woman and her as a trans woman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally had these like, shape shifting, I wanted things that she had, and she wanted things that I had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, like I was saying at the beginning, how in Thailand, politically, culturally, and legally, as a trans woman, you are still a man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That gave Angie access to things that I do not have because I am all of those things a woman. I am legally, morally,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm a cis woman so that's okay for me, but there are things that I want people to look past the fact that women don't do these things or don't have access to these things and on merit be like, yes, Sylvie can do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For clinching and sparring. Angie would be given clinching and sparring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually a man. And they would treat her like a boy. And I'm like, just treat me like a boy. And they wouldn't do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the same thing, I do not want to get into this argument, but it's the same thing when people want to politicize trans bodies and that it all just comes down to this biological thing that is unchangeable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so you treat that person that way because it's unchangeable, or they're not allowed these things because it's unchangeable. It's like that, but in Thai context, whereas we talk about it in Western context. When Angie actually fought at Lumpini,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was actually, I hate using actually so much, she was literally sexually...


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[Assistant] Transgressed by a doctor, by a fight doctor.


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[Assistant] Very inappropriate, but not like, traumatizing, but completely inappropriate. And she-


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[Assistant] The body is seen as this like, I can do these, whatever, this, this doctor like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Touched her. Inappropriately. She told me about it, and I told her she should tell Corneen, and she was like, it's... I don't wanna make a big thing about it. But...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was complaining to me, she said, they should treat me like a woman.


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[Assistant] And I was like, if they treated you like a woman, you wouldn't be fighting at Lumpini.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Outright. I was like, if they treated you like a woman, you would not even be allowed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it was this, it was this thing that was like, it's unfair to both sides. Like, everyone's wrong. Rather than like, there should be a compromise.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I made this video, what ultimately what I was saying is that I have a lot of compassion for trans athletes and I believe they deserve a lot of compassion from people who don't politically agree with whatever present situation exists.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, she had this opportunity to fight at Lumpini at a time when it was kind of like a hot ticket. There's no place for Angie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now they're setting the table for women who are going to be able to fight at Lumpini. And so it's like there was no place. Is that a place? I don't know. Like, we don't know whether that's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really a place or not. It remains to be seen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, when, when they announced that women were gonna be fighting at Limpany, which still has not happened, but it's been announced, he's not into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Still, like, when new people come to the gym, he like, brings them over to the wall. Angie was ours, like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, because I don't think that women would have gotten anything out of Angie going under. Instead, it would have just been a like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you identify as a woman, why don't you self-degrade and go down?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would never, never have reached the conclusion that she should go under.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't advise going under based on my things, other than that as things are, the way the culture is, the way tradition is now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do it this way. She's not being disrespectful by going over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, if you are a Tom, for example, you fucking go under. You don't get to go over as a Tom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have my own, like, personal gender things as well, like gender for a non-cis male is just super complicated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you mean not theoretically, you mean that there should actually be intergender fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To be clear, to be clear because we were just talking about trans.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Female bones and ba-ba-ba-ba-ba bone density da-da-da-da. Kevin is talking about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All female. All male. Like this is not just a like-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I should look at who is the best male in my weight class and my goal should be to be able to be him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is in and of itself a weird assumption that that's the best fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well no, it's the like standard assumption, but we know that that's not actually the case. So your argument is that I should actually look for the best male fighter, not the one that has the belt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's not regardless of their gender. You're saying that women should look at men as the a priori superior


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so the best woman in that weight class.


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[Assistant] She should theoretically aim to beat him without ever actually having a fight to settle that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The best female fighter is as good as the best male fighter. For the same reasons that you believe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, my problem is, by internalizing this inferiority, by being like, you should set your goals to theoretically beat the best male because that's the actual...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the actual best, standard best. I don't think that that mentality solves the sociological


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Issues that make it so that female fighters are not as good as male fighters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is better than the whole fucking bone density shit. We just need to get rid of that crap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But why would you not, like, pic-toned it? Or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Beat the man that's actually holding the pin for the best in their weight class.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I'm saying that your idea actually underlines that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The pool of female talent, right? So say I'm on a card with a man that we're like close in size, whatever. The opponent I have to beat to be a superstar versus the opponent he has to beat to be a superstar are not on the same level as each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reason I'm mad is because what you're describing is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rather than the feel-good take away all of the actual...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not directly, but ultimately what you are saying is that as a female fighter, if you climb to the top of the hill, the hill was such shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because being Yodmoy is so not the same as I want to get this belt in a completely unranked chaotic organization of achievement. Yodmoy is like a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I do all those things, but unless I beat a man in my weight class.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're like, you will never have to defeat that low kick, because no woman will ever throw that low kick at you, but some male fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One is a specific person with a specific set of skills. The other is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is not the same thing as what you're saying of Tara should find the man at her weight who's the best and aim to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So then you're not actually talking about a woman pinpointing a man in her weight class who's seen as the best and thinking, how do I beat him? You're talking about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Theoretically I agree with you, but what you're saying to me further internalizes female inferiority.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a woman, I'm letting you know the reason there's a point-counterpoint.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that I actually experience these, that doesn't feel healthy, whereas you're like, you should just think this way, it's very healthy, it's very like, everyone's equal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Spar with D or Alex or Yodakunpon and I'm having a fucking internal thing that I'm like, I can't get this on them, it's driving me crazy. I'm not giving myself...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just hate that I can't do that thing. So what's making you think that there aren't women, because women are generally very sparse in gyms around, that they're not comparing themselves to the other woman in their gym? They're like, I wanna beat Dan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, they're incredibly circumspect. They're like, you're in this box.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if you're Miss Nebraska, aim to be Miss Universe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, if you don't, if you're not into like shirts and shorts, or if you already have the shirts and shorts, actually people have been saying they really like the Carahat shorts, which makes me happy, cause I love the Carahat shorts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're gorgeous though, they're really beautiful. We have some really big ones here that we're like trying to figure out how to hang up, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, this is not the on the road version and actually, uh, if you're listening to this on audio, we are outside. We took this outside. We have a little garden where we live. So we went into the garden because podcasts indoors are kind of boring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, totally, totally, uh, I don't know, it's a pet peeve of mine. Uh, Joe Rogan podcast I watched on YouTube, it was, it wasn't bad watching looking at his brick wall, but uhm, when I'm gonna watch a podcast,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I see they're set up and I'm like, I don't want to watch this for two hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I personally like to imagine, because I lived in New York City for a while and then outside of New York, I personally imagine people listening to our podcast on the subway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Only our beloved Patreon supporters. I apologize if there's going to be some wind ruffle sound. We're just-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we're deciding to be outside a little bit. Also...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, I like changing things up, so we're changing it up. Uh, just a little bit of housekeeping. Is that what we do? Housekeeping. Uhm, I worked hard and put up


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, a new Sylvie store. Basically, uhm, uh, Bleeding Edge who made our great shirts, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, but what I was going to say was, we had to find a different vendor and set up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally new setup, uh, and I spent a day or so putting together the Sylvie store. I'll put a link in the description.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the t-shirts and everything that we were offering and the shorts and everything are all in one place now. And we were able to, uh, if you're not a huge Sylvie fan, this isn't, I'm going down a little bit of a path here, but I love this. One of the first shirts that we, uh, offered was the Saw Knock Lang Cow Miss Gangster Knee t-shirt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it has a graphic, like a kind of like graphic novel graphic of you fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Putting a pretty great knee and lock on Gouda.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Must have been like fight 75 or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Originally moved over to Bleeding Edge, we had lost the graphic. So that shirt was discontinued and gone. And as we were putting together the store, I found the graphic again. So we were able to recreate the shirt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a lot of stuff on the back end that, hey, I know how to do this stuff, but I'm not really good at it. I just have to slog it, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was very pleased with the slogging that we got this up, uh, the shirts are available through Printful, but through this store, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, you call that a portal? Uhm, and thank you to the people that we asked to test the store, the people who went and got shirts early to test and, uh, kind of like review how good they are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and if you get a shirt and you have thoughts about it, uh, we could still probably modify the product, choose a different based shirt or something. We're going down a path here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think we're putting time stamps for people who are on


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kind of like the footnotes of it and the focus of the, we'll get going in a minute or two, but one of my inspirations or my thoughts about uhm, the Muay Thai Bones is I want to take a topic and go


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Deep dive into it. Too deep. Like, I wanna lose people a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, you might, you might be, you might be into it and then, but I wanna go the next layer of depth or detail or ramifications, big thoughts for the few people who are like, I love this, can we go deeper?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you can go down with us on this, on the next topic, and you'll be like, that's pretty good, pretty interesting, ah, they're going a little too far.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you just jump out and go to the next topic, right? But for a few people, like to me the podcast is really about doing these deep dives.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That will take maybe not our entire audience with us on each subject because this is how we think and relate to Muay Thai and we kind of want to share that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've earned this depth because of how much time and investment we've...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, it's closely related to what else we're going to talk about, which is the danger of quitting or the habit of quitting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So which one should we go, should we do the adjustments first? Okay, then you have to lead because I don't really know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we have a shirt that celebrates his awesome career.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And let me say that just to pull out for a moment, part of the reason why you started sparring with him every single day was because of this Sylvie 3.0 commitment you made right after COVID first hit Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For a year, let's say. Because you had been fighting 30 times a year. And it was a big chunk of your process and your growth. Was fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting. And so we're like, we're gonna make these commitments.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sparring, sparring, sparring, sparring, instead of fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting. And we were very lucky. Yokunpon is almost your size. He's not a large man. He is an incredible fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a generous teacher, as you said, and he was, at the time, living next door to, uh, Patrick and Ron, Jim, and so we were like, oh my god, let's just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lock onto this. So if you're not following regularly, this started around June, maybe, and it's been more or less every day. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now what we're talking about is adjustments that, recent adjustments that you are starting to make with this process, right? No? Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like an oh shit factor, which you feel like every, every 30 seconds or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is that? Let's take a moment. Because if you haven't stood in front of Sagat, which you have,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you haven't stood in front of, you know, Kumpon, or other legends-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is that thing? Because it's not aggression.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, first, the reason why there are adjustments is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when he, when he, you got started like a week ago or?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or so? So when everything started picking up again,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was this reflection, this time to think, well, how can we get more out of this maybe? Would that be fair to say?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thing about Yokunpon, which is that he paints with violence. So he's presenting a violence, a kind of violence that's not actual physical damage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a way that doesn't maybe exist even in Muay Thai anymore. It's an old school thing. And so you're getting to adapt yourself to something very special. But there's other things about Yokun Pong that are just beautiful and unique about him because he also has this


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His fluid rhythm of movement and footwork is very kind of like, he has a lightness to his movement that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can't feel when you're just scared shitless.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At least my thinking on trying to make adjustments is like, okay, let's, on a certain, on certain days, let's try to bring the violence quotient down so that these other really beautiful but more subtle elements of a style could kind of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why knowing, feeling where your weight is is because where your weight is determines which strikes or blocks can be executed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the next thing you do is usually shift your weight to execute a strike. If you don't know where your weight is, you actually don't know what strike you can throw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just as, uh, to step out into larger ideas for a second, for some people who don't know who Yoko Npon is and don't know what we're referring to, they think, oh, what is the problem? Everybody knows in Thailand, sparring is super technical, super light, and it's all San Chai going ta-ta.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All touching. This is not true. No. Yes, you do see videos of it. Yes, it is a part of sparring in Thailand, but we've seen sparring, which is full on knockout sparring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fight simulation sparring and everything in between. So when we're talking about what the sparring that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right now Yokunpon is doing is this kind of like, it's not full power, but it's full emotional dominance, right? And there is real attempts to own and dominate the space. It's not like flick, flick, flick, flick, flick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? So what we've been trying to think about is on some days to do kind of, to take the temperature down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that other elements can read in, and I'm kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting this because we only, this is the second day you've done it, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two days a week to go bow bow, soft, three, who knows. But to have this option of kind of like, dial it down, dial it up. One of the things Sylvie really wants to do more in her life is to be the master of her own training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna train these techniques, not these. I'm gonna be spending this time on the bag, not whatever. Like basically to create her own path. And if you give yourself a gear shift in your sparring choice,