[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whether out to my house or into town. And people just get fried, steamed, mad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a lot of them I, you know, you can see it says whatever, dealership, Salt Lake City or Austin, Texas, whatever. So even though they might have newly minted Montana plates, you can tell they're from out of town.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so I'm doing my civic part to discourage people from thinking Bozeman is up, up to speed, literally and figuratively. So yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now you've done exactly what I hoped you would do. You explained the road rage of Bozeman, Montana, the incorrigible people that live here, the temperamental nature of everybody. So don't move here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No. So, even though you used to tell me everyone you knew from Bozeman saw multiple 400 inch bull elk within 10 miles of town.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, but you, in your home state, Corey, got the award again this year as the fastest growing western state percentage wise. So is that why the temperatures in Boise are so high? It is, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you guys can have them all. You keep, keep, you know, well, all the riffraff that comes this way will just say Boise.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now that's, you know, my wife was shopping for a CRV the other day. Uh, she's really into Honda. She's had three of them and, uh, I'm trying to talk her out of it. And the guy's like, well, what do you want for your trade in? And I joked to him. I said, well, it depends on if you want the tank full or empty.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you, people, you know what I think people are saying, listeners are thinking, how do these guys get any out-cutting done?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going on an out count with these guys must be like some sort of tour of America or something, where they just decide once in a while to stop and call for an out count.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, have you looked at our moisture indexes this year across the west? I have not. I have. It's going to be a bad grouse year. Really?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, wet springs like this are never a good grouse here. They, it's just too cold and damp for them. And, uh, it also is cold and damp. And so the insect hatches are not nearly what they normally are, like grasshoppers and other stuff. So we're.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're looking at a bad grouse year, so I'll probably have to focus on, actually focus on an elk this year. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the good news of that is, looking at Arizona and New Mexico, I know it's way early in the, in the monsoon season to be looking at this, but they have been getting some moisture, so. That's a good thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hopefully the monsoon, whatever you'd call it, the, the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Masters of the monsoon can dump on Arizona and New Mexico and Nevada, Utah, Colorado.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some time to change here. Actually, anyone who's interested, there is the NOAA National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Has maps about forecasts. So let me look at the moisture forecast for those areas. If you can believe a weather man, that's, come on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the White Mountains of Arizona are forecasting it anywhere from one to one and a half inches.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The mountains of the San Juans of Southwest Colorado, one to one and a half inches.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Chama, Vermeo, the Hickory of Northern New Mexico is supposed to get the same. Uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Southeast, Arizona and southwest New Mexico is supposed to get a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Idaho, eastern Oregon, Montana is supposed to be dry as a board. Same with Nevada and California. But, as we said.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That'd be like planning around what Randy Newberg told me about where to go hunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going through the listener questions at the HelpTalkPodcast.com


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know why I struggle with that Cory, I gotta ask you every episode, I should just write it on my keyboard or something, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. So, a lot of them in this first batch of questions relate to Colorado archery seasons. And, uh, they're mostly directed at you, which I'm thankful for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some of them are, I'm gonna throw it all in the same mix.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, Colorado archery season runs, what is it, September 2nd or something like that, 3rd? Through the 30th. 30th, yea. And so, if I mashed all those questions together and made it one question, here's what it would say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When should I go, Ardriel Cunning in Colorado?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, that is a lot, uh-oh. Cory, you went on such a spiel. I gotta cut him off here. He's on a coffin jag here. He just got his water bottle. See, if you were my grandma Harriet, you would have lit up another Paul Malnand filter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Man, if I, if we weren't doing this remotely, I would have, you know, called 911 for you. The audience doesn't get to see this. You were over there trying your best to finish that segment. And I could tell you either had to sneeze or you were about ready to cough your lungs out. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, I can certainly take the next question because I'm gonna stick to Colorado for right now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And those who have been paying attention, you know that I think it was in February, Colorado started doing focus groups.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Changes to resident, non-resident, the allocation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they had some focus groups that were residents, some that were non-resident. Kind of a bit of everything. Uh, different people who they found through their database are primarily archery hunters, are muzzleloader hunters, rifle hunters, hunt over the counter, whatever they do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, so they've come forward with what the, they call it, I think it's called their summary of comments. So they took all these comments and it's,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Brought down into about a six page document, and I would suggest if you're interested in Elk Hunting in Colorado, and I don't care if you're a resident or a non-resident, you go and read that. Because it's a little bit of a road map of what you can expect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, if you go to the Colorado Parks and Wildlife website and there, I'm not going to give you this great big long 40 digit URL, uh, but if you search for big game license distribution planning on their website, you know, the search bar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It'll show up. And maybe if you grab your, your Google, uh, your Google would take you to the same place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you read the summary the department has put out there, it's kinda what you would expect, right? If you were a Colorado resident, like if I was a Colorado resident, I would be saying, hey, can we kinda start thinking about putting some caps on this over-the-counter stuff?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And do we really have to give non-residents this huge portion of our limited entry tags?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so it's pretty predictable what the scoping comments were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, one thing that surprised me because it was a train wreck when they did it seven or eight years ago. There's a bunch of people who say if we start transferring or shifting over from our, right now they have a peer preference point system. Some of the thoughts were let's make half of those a random drawer or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, a lot of folks are saying, well we should go back to this point banking idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm like, oh, that was the dumbest idea. So if you put in for a unit and you had 10 points, but it only took four, they let you keep your other six points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's like, that's as stupid as it gets, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there were some other interesting comments that I would support in any state, I don't care what state it is, uh, that one of the suggestions that they scope people about was if you draw a tag or acquire a tag,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In any sort, way, shape, or form, you burn your points. Whether it's your first choice, second choice, third choice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whether you got it through a landowner voucher or whatever. If you got it in the leftover draw, burns your points. That would take care of some point creep. Yeah. And, uh, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know that I'd take care of people at the top because people at the top are like, look, I'm not, I'm just holding out for the best of the best. But once you get through that top pile of people, that might be a way to address some of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't know, I think they're meeting again in August, uh, and when they meet, they're gonna decide.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're going to need 5 plus points at least based on what the draw results were for the general tags in 2022. Yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know how that gets also, it kind of becomes its own beast that feeds itself where people hit a bit of the panic button. So everybody starts jumping in. So that just climbs it higher.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We are, and I don't care how people want to look at it, blame or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It has been a process that's been in the making. Well, Colorado has had a point system I think since 88.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's point creep. There's just more applicants than there are tags. And there's new people jumping in, jumping in. And that's, I've been in that system since 1995. So what's that? 29 of those years or something like that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And every year it happens, it's just a function of how much it happens. There were some years in 2008 and 2009 when the economy was in such bad shape that it flattened out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But one thing you find is a lot of people may not apply that year, but they'll buy their point. It's like, okay, I've got enough money to keep my place in line so that I don't fall back a point or two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, using Wyoming, here's the other statistic that people don't look at in terms of point creep. And this has been going on since Wyoming started their system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The percentage of actual point holders, in other words, people who are in the system and sitting on some points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Less than 20% of them, a hundred, er, it was 29,000 non-residents, actually applied for a tag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so, and this has been going on, I mean, Wyoming, now we're at, this is the 17th year of their system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's been going on since the system started, but people were not paying attention to the point buying going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But now that the point buyers are jumping off the sidelines and jumping into the game, everybody says, Oh, look at this point creep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You knew this was going to happen. And so when people are all surprised about it, I'm like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I'm an accountant, I mean, that's... Yeaah, so I, and I know some people are mad because they were buying all these points. You know, let's say you jumped in four years ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you said, well, in 2022, I should have enough points to draw. Whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you did that based on thinking that this was going to stay static,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, you weren't looking at a complete picture. You were looking at that year's draw odds. You weren't looking at this continued addition.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of the number of point buyers that have been going on in every system since time began. Colorado, 100% preference point. Wyoming, 75% preference point. Arizona, 20% of the tags are in effect preference point. Utah, 50% of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, please go and look at the point pools.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of people who are just buying a point because that's your predictor of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wyoming, so look what Wyoming did with moose, goat and sheep this year. They've already passed it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 25% of the tags previously went to non-residents. Now it's 10.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And all the non-residents who've been buying points for 20 years, and these are expensive points. The moose, goat, shh. Well, I shouldn't say goat. Moose and sheep are the two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But these are like $100 points or so. I bailed when they jumped the point cost from- To 40 or 50. Yeah, I bailed. I was like, you know what, I'm a tightwad account and I don't need to hunt Wyoming moose or sheep that bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So a bunch of guys are like, we're going to sue Wyoming. We're going to sue them for all. Look at what an investment we've made. And now they're changing the game on us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what? Good luck with that. If you're mad about the money you blew or spent on bonus points that are now devalued in Wyoming,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're really gonna be mad when you find out you just spent a bunch of money on legal fees that got you nowhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm sure you hear it every year when the draw results come out, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Math really wasn't that person's main subject.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the non-resident draw odds are 1%. Okay, that means...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they're just frustrated that they didn't draw within two years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's go back, I mean, in sixth grade when I, I mean, we got fractions in what, third or fourth grade? By sixth grade, we're already talking stats and probability a little bit. Anyhow, my point of all this is, and I think your point that you were starting on is Wyoming is changing. Maybe we're going to see. If Colorado changes, it expect a point dump like you've never seen. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If Wyoming changes, expect a point dump where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This 80% who have just been buying points, who are so far out on that point plank, they're gonna, they're, they're getting off the plank. And you knew this was coming. You could see it coming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now with changes to the allocations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's all your, how about if we let them know that between July 15th and July 31st, our friends at Mountain Ops are giving them the deal of this entry? There's some positive news. What is it, 30% off or something like that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then they're giving away a Yeti cooler, a soft sided Yeti cooler. And this is just among the group who uses the Elk Talk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Someone's getting a Yeti Hopper, the M20, it's like it's soft sided.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cooler. Someone's gonna get a 50 liter waterproof duffel, they call it the panga. And then you're working on getting them a bow, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You think if we told the weatherman to use promo code ALKTOK he'd bring some moisture? I'm really hoping our friends in Arizona and New Mexico get some moisture in the monsoon season. Yeah, I don't have a tag there so I don't really care.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't either, but I'm, I'm just thinking, you know, next year, they call me next year Newberg because I'm always confident that next year I'm, uh, I'm going to get, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm going to the eye doctor next week. Uh oh. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have every need for them, uh, but I don't because I've heard that same thing, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm running low on batteries, so I plug it in and I'm like, oh, I gotta run to the office and get something. So I thought, well, I'll bring my laptop with. Reach around the couch to unplug it. And I did something, I don't know what I did, but man, I just went to my knees.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my lower left back is just like somebody jabbed me with a spear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So like dang it, that's not good. So I've been dealing with that, that pinch for about five or six days. Well, two nights ago, I went out to my archery range, which my shop and a bunch of hay bales are the backstop and I draw back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm glad nobody was standing in my shop. But I can tell you this, that if my arrow goes, it's a field point, if it goes through my shop wall and hits a Yeti cooler, it doesn't phase anything. It's just laying there on the concrete.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything's okay. Except my back. Man. But.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, uh, I went, uh, did all my back exercises and stuff like this. I'm doing really good today, so. That's good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I, I did give my shooting a break for a few days, so tonight I'm gonna fire up again. We'll, we'll see how that goes. If you're out, Sal de Bozeman, don't be, be careful where you're standing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Archery equipment restriction. Oh yeaah. There was some legislation last spring. Did you guys end up?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Allowing lighted knocks and expandable broadheads, or did that get killed?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so if people wonder why I sometimes go off the rails on my platforms, that's exactly why.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm an equal opportunity abuser and I'm an equal opportunity supporter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're against, if you're against the principles of hunting, fishing, shooting, and public land, well I don't care what party you're from. I'm coming with my pitchforks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, and I don't, you know, if you got a good piece of legislation and you and I disagree on everything else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm going to be there to support your good piece of legislation when it comes to hunting and fishing and conservation and public land or whatever. So, but your point is I hope taken by people that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They are so quickly moving the game from phishing game agencies and the processes that we've always used and dragging it over into state legislatures or into Congress.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got to pick up our game. We, we, as much as I know, our listeners hate that stuff. I hate it. You know, the last thing I want to do as I'm packing and getting ready to go on my Alcon is to have to sit down and crank out an email or make a phone call to a legislator.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of the new reality. So we can, we can wish for 1984. But.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just the reality we deal with, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's some leftover tag situation. They usually pop up in August. Uh, I don't know what your Idaho gig is, but in Montana, uh, if you do get a general tag in Montana, you can return it before August 1st and get an 80, I think it's 80% being owned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we, we need that, we need your money here in Montana, you know? So, we'll be having that in Montana if you're on that list. Uh, Colorado in August starts their, I think they call it a reissue list. Uh, Nevada starts what's called a first come first serve list.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I guess the point of that is folks, there are opportunities if you're shitting without a tag right now, but you gotta be on the ball. And, you know, by the time August rolls around, a lot of people have to, they've already had to put in for their vacation time and, uh, you know, their plans kind of set out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It may not be an option, but it is an option if you can make it work. Uh, and go to each state, go to their website, read the rules of how it works because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we think that their drawing systems are, are unique to each other and different,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, I think they went to different planets to dream up their reissue processes because they, none of them are even close to similar. But, oh well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. Well, we have a Citizens Advisory Committee, an Elk Management Citizens Committee. I've talked to quite a few of the folks on that committee. I submitted my comments and they came out with their first primary recommendation this week and it is related to elk and it would be choose your weapon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So right now, Montana, you're allowed on your general tag, you get six weeks of archery that always starts the first Saturday in September, runs for six weeks. We give it out four or five days off and then rifle season cranks up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That always ends the Saturday after, or the Sunday after Thanksgiving.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For, out there for public comment, if you want to comment, you should be doing that, and probably should have been doing that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go in and see if you think that's going to solve some of the issues that, that you feel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Need to be addressed with Montana, uh, elk hunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, and you get, I forget about this because it's only two years old, you get ten days of muzzleloader in December.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Within these states that are growing really fast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I, I don't know what the answers are to be honest with you Cory. I, I give my comments, I weigh in on all this stuff and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I'm kind of at a different point in my hunting life where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got to hunt through the period of time when the United States had a hundred million fewer citizens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That were crammed in and, you know, the population of all these states were lower. There were just a whole lot of things. And so how are we going to combat that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're not. Wait, I don't know how, can you run all those new people out of Idaho?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So my point of that is, it would be nice to say, well, this is how it used to be. And that was how it used to be. But people in this country have the freedom to move wherever they want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there's always, this has been a little bit of a tongue-in-cheek statement that residents of the western states have always said, well if you don't like it, just move here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So be careful what you ask for, I guess is the answer to that one, right? Yup. So there's, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's just all this stuff going on and it's creating a lot of friction and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For me, I don't, uh, I can't let it take away from the fact that I'm gonna try find a place to go out hunting. And I don't need to go a place that takes 30 points or that's 3% draw odds. This year, by design, I...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I knew I was going to end up with mostly over the counter, left over, and general tags.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when I sat down with my crew, we said, all right, last year we had a goat tag, we had a moose tag, we had some stuff where people probably think, oh, that's the kind of, that's a normal year of hunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, a normal year of hunting is you go scratch it out on the public land with your general tag. Sometimes it's a leftover tag. Sometimes it's just a cow tag. It's an over the counter tag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's, I don't have, my Wyoming, my one Wyoming tag is a general out tag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I have my Montana general out tag. If I end up with an out tag anywhere else, it's going to be an over the counter leftover reissue tag that somebody didn't want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have a, I have an Idaho deer tag that you guys were still selling whitetail tags way after the December 1st day. You said that, you said you might end up number 11,000 in line. The last two years I've been in the 14,000.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so my point to all that is there's still places to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I want our platforms this year to show that you still go make the best of it. You know, there are places to do it, things to do, so get with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not a year without one of them isn't like a lost season or, you know, a ruined year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I will. But, uh, yup. I hope everybody realizes there are still a few of those options out there. Yeah, they may not be what your preferred option was, but every year that you sit home is a year you don't get back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At least every state in the union you can get an over-the-counter deer tag, but that's Nevada you gotta draw, Utah you gotta draw, Colorado you gotta draw, but there are plenty of leftovers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] New Mexico, you gotta draw errors. So, I guess, absent some of the Western states, so the traveling non-resident who's wanting to come out West Algonquin, you still have deer hunting in your home state, probably. Uhm, you don't make the most of that, don't. I just see the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The angst and the frustration that, well, I didn't draw my tag this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what, most years, most tags I apply for, I don't draw either. No. I just, so, I hope, hope people will go and do it, cause there's still...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, for my own perspective, if I want to just look it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The first year I bought a Montana elk license in 1992, I had to draw for a cow tag. They were hard to come by.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The draw odds for a cow tag were 20, 30%. Now, they call them B tags, like Bravo. And I can buy a whole bunch of them. Just drive down, get a second out tag. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, you know, there are more hunters in the woods and I didn't draw my glory tag here in Montana, but I have a general tag and I can go get a cow tag if I want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, uh, it's like, okay, throw a little bit of cold water on me if I start complaining here. And it's, it's, you know, I gotta wake up a little bit. So, uh, but talking about, you know, doing what you can, uh, to make it a better place, I think


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're going to be there next week. I'm going to be there next week. Park City, Utah. Rocky Mountain Oak Foundation is having their...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, out camp and mountain summit and total archery challenge and all kinds of stuff going on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got a live podcast on Saturday, you and I, after you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That could be a big, big problem. I'm going to have to change my airline ticket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I did that wrong, boy, I'm gonna really give a, oh no, it's 5.30. 5.30 on Thursday.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which Cory has a course, I have a course, uh, Jamie has a course, Remy Warren has a course, uh, use promo code outdoc and save 20%. But, uh, yeah, so Thursday evening, 5.30.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So folks, if you're there, you do the, you get to listen to the live version, ask your questions live and then we record it and then we obviously drop it here on the podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and then I got an MC The Evening event Saturday night, which


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If Elk Foundation membership goes from 240,000 down to 120,000, blame it on me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody who's been on a RV road trip.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is making a note saying, I'm going to tune into that next Elk Talk podcast when Corey gives the download of how that just, how that went.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I could see that. I, I, I notice how you reserve the right to go do that. No, I've been doing a lot of sitting, a sitting of water, a lot. Really?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hope so and, you know, it's interesting you bring that up because the place where I sent you on trail, uh, to Elkon, uh, not too far from there. I hunt a different area in archery season, not too far from there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About every, every other year, every third year, I bump into this group of guys from North Dakota.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they are, they gotta be the most patient guys in the world because they have a lot of success. Their success.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is probably higher than the residents who live down there or who live where I do and we go to go there and we chase bugles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These guys, it's like, no, we patterned them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have remarkable success. You know, you think about the traits of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whitetail hunting that are really helpful for archery elk hunting. Yep. Sank control.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So is that the teaser for the next podcast or did you just lay out of the good stuff?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is, uh, a powder out there for that that one of my friends uses. It's called, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The best tag you could imagine. Uh, but he gets shaved really bad and by like day two or three he couldn't even walk. Man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm waiting to hear the details on that. They gave you all the details, they just called me and said, hey, are you going to be in town that weekend? I'm like, yeah, why? Oh good, we got you chalked up for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Corey's got a lot more details than I got, but I don't know, maybe they just need someone to run and get it, get people coffee in the morning and you know, whatever, that's my job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you know what they have me presenting? Like, marriage advice for elk hunters?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I am so far out of the loop, Cory. I got all these people running around here telling me, hey, you need to film this, you need to film that. I feel like I'm just, uh, like, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can we, have we left them with enough today that they're probably shaking their heads saying, I'm going to send these guys a bill for an hour and a half of my time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, and I want to go, I want to touch on this logging area that I've been filming in this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they, they logged it last year. It needed logging and thinning. So it's not like moonscape. It's like selectively thinned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hadn't seen an, it's a place I hide quite a bit, I hadn't seen an elk in there for forever. This summer, with the moisture we had, the amount of forbs growing in there is like off the charts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we're in there filming this stuff saying, okay, now look at the aspect ratio of this slope. It kind of runs northwest. Here's what it looked like. Here's another northwest slope back before they logged it. Look, there's nothing here. Look at this northwest facing slope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is full of forbs and you see where it rolls to the straight north. Yeah, they logged it out, but look how tall those grasses are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And how much snow do you think it would take to cover up these grasses? A lot. So where are these elk going to go when it snows?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This north, this northwest running slope that has a bit of a roll to the north that doesn't get direct sunlight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Green as green gets and it's going to stay green for a long time. So maybe I'll add some of those things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, what you're, that's one of my greatest resources is all the stuff that comes out of Starkey. And mo, not most, but a lot of that, the two primary funding sources for that are, uh, the Forest Service.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Yeaah, they have their own herd of elk and they have people walking along beside them, watching these elk graze at all different times of the year on all different kinds of landscapes, recording what the elk passes by to get to something else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is gonna be one of the, probably one of the most valuable parts of my estate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I've got it categorized by studies on hunting pressure, on, you know, food types, you know, drought conditions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Starkey makes up a whole lot of those links. I bet. Yeaah. Cool. Someday if you're good enough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I'm not sharing that one either, it could have reneged me about it, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But anyhow, next, I guess next time, we'll, you'll have already had, we'll have, we'll be rolling through the Mountain Ops special where people can win bows, coolers, save 30%, get free shipping, and then we'll already know who you're bringing to Bozeman for the Peaks Elk Camp or whatever it's called, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, I can't wait to go do that. In the meantime, everybody have a great, great week or two until we talk to them the next time. Sounds good. Thanks folks. We'll catch you next time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And with that Cory, we are ready to get into it. Let's jump into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I split my head open, but I think I'm okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is also brought to you by Mountain Ops, making outdoor energy and performance nutrition to make you a stronger and healthier elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have a full line of hunting related supplements, including meal replacement shakes, multivitamins, pre-workout fuel, and post-workout recovery. And my favorite, their new performance protein bars that by the way are packed with 270 calories and 20 grams of protein, but contain less than six grams of sugar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Visit mountainops.com to learn more and to order and be sure to use the promo code Elk Talk to save on your next order.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we have a promo code for Gerber as well. Just use the code ELKTALK to save 20% on your orders at gerbergear.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lastly, the University of Elk Hunting online course is a proud partner of the Elk Talk podcast. And within the University of Elk Hunting online course, you're going to find nearly 60 chapters organized in 17 modules of elk hunting instruction aimed at making you a more successful elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From planning and e-scouting to calling strategies and packing, every imaginable elk hunting topic is included in the online course. And regardless of your previous elk hunting experience or success, I'm confident the University of Elk Hunting online course will make you a more confident, more successful elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just visit elk101.com and use the promo code ELKDOC to save 20% when you sign up for a membership to the University of Elk Hunting online course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And is that to purchase a point as well as apply?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wealthy landowner friends and that's, that's about the only problem I think I can see.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, in Idaho, we've got, we had somebody a couple years ago that tried, you know, he was a sportsman, and he tried to convince the commission to legalize lighted knocks and mechanical broadheads, which are not legal in the state of Idaho.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, that same person messaged me and said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, realistically, you're wanting to wait until the 18th or 20th before that, that really kicks in in September. So with it ending so early this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you can increase that resource, it's going to lessen the demand and that's what we're all concerned about is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you mentioned they, uh, they contributed funding for chronic wasting disease research. We, uh, just in the last few months have our first cases of chronic wasting disease right here in Idaho about two hours north of my house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It does bring up the point that the Rocky mountain elk foundation has been central.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In establishing elk herds and allowing states to provide hunting opportunities in multiple states east of the Mississippi where there's never, you know, been an opportunity in a long, long time to see elk or to hunt elk. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now, all these non-residents that everybody's up in arms about that are coming into their states have elk in their home states. And it's gonna decrease that, that demand and that pressure that's being put on the limited resource right now, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To draw a tag than it did before they changed that. It was to appease the people who were just getting into the system and into the process late.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because they knew they didn't have a chance of drawing a tag for 20 years. Now it gives them at least a glimmer of hope, so they're appeased.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, rather than being over the counter, Idaho and, and Colorado are basically the only two options, viable options for over the counter and both of them recognize that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What goes on behind the scene? It's not just you show up at the Walmart on August 30th and buy your elk hunting license and your tagging and go hunting anywhere in the state you want to like it used to be. Things are changing. They've changed and they're continuing to change in the direction that it's going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a proposal right now on bear hunting, Colorado has proposals on predator hunting, you know, all these things that if we as sportsmen are not involved in, if we're not educated on it and then involved in it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's gonna get taken away and it's gonna change to the tune of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You've got voting opportunities coming up shortly that, you know, if somebody is introducing these kinds of things, let your, let your votes be heard and do your, make your, your changes at the ballot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Episode six, uh, is currently out and, uh, for those who, we get, we're getting quite a few comments about the schedule. In the past, we've done a video a day, uh, you know, for like 30 straight days. We actually have a schedule this year. So it's every Tuesday and every Thursday at six o'clock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Does Michael have access to your wife's best unknown seasoning for grouse? Nope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Manifested was in my calf, but in going through rehab and physical therapy on that, realizing my hamstring was, was weak as any hamstring could be and I was putting all of my


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Randy, you, you put yourself in, in these corners sometimes. I had, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A salad with a can of chicken on top of it that was 18 grams of protein, one gram of fat, one gram of carbs. It also had some, uh, sweet peppers and some cheese and I had two cups of cottage cheese.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All elk. All the time. Only elk. Only elk. Well, it's us having conversations, so we usually go down some rabbit holes, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is also brought to you by Mountain Ops, making outdoor energy and performance nutrition to make you a stronger and healthier elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have a full line of hunting related supplements, including meal replacement shakes, multivitamins, pre-workout fuel and post-workout recovery. And my favorite, their new performance protein bars that by the way are packed with 270 calories and 20 grams of protein, but contain less than six grams of sugar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Visit MountainOps.com to learn more and to order and be sure to use the promo code ELKTOCK to save on your next order.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we have a promo code for Gerber as well. Just use the code ELKTALK to save 20% on your orders at gerbergear.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] or buglingbull.com and use promo code elktalk and you're going to save 15% on all of your elk calls and elk call accessories.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lastly, the University of Elk Hunting online course is a proud partner of the Elk Talk podcast. And within the University of Elk Hunting online course, you're going to find nearly 60 chapters organized in 17 modules of elk hunting instruction aimed at making you a more successful elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From planning and e-scouting to calling strategies and packing, every imaginable elk hunting topic is included in the online course. And regardless of your previous elk hunting experience or success, I'm confident the University of Elk Hunting online course will make you a more confident, more successful elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just visit elk101.com and use the promo code ELKDOC to save 20% when you sign up for a membership to the University of Elk Hunting online course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow. So, and it's not really any higher elevation, it's just in a little hidden canyon and yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably not. There's just a lot of factors that are not looking good for Arizona this year. Yeah. Well, is it more season date?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's season dates, moon phase, drought conditions, it's kind of not looking like a good year for Arizona Elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My guess is this will be a very low year for a number of applications in Arizona because I think a lot of people are looking at it and Arizona is one of those states that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just, I think myself and a lot of other applicants are going to buy a bonus point this year. Yeah. So if you decide not to apply.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were bringing up what the moon phase was? Yeah. So in Arizona, you know, the times I've hunted it, they really, especially the bigger bulls really didn't start showing any red activity until the 17th, 18th, 19th, somewhere in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I mean we were hearing a few bugles and we were calling in some smaller bulls but the big bulls started coming out of the woodwork like the 19th, 20th.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's pushing it a little bit, you're only gonna have a few days, and then you couple that with the moon phase, and this year you've got a full moon on the 20th of September.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think, uh, people thought it was a pretty dry year and, you know, hot summer and all that. And about 10% of the state of Arizona last year at this time was in D2, which is severe drought. It's a level 2 drought.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three or four percent was in d one and three or four percent was in zero.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And another 20% is D3, which is extreme. And then maybe 5% is in D2, which is severe. So it's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yup, and you get an extra number in the hat for each point you have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The cool thing about Arizona is you can apply for, I think, is it four hunts? Five. Five hunts. And they look at your first two when they draw your, your tickets. So they pull your name out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they look at it and they say, okay, you applied for a really hard to draw hunt on your first one and those tags are all gone. But then your second choice, you applied for one that's a little easier to draw and we've got one left. So they give you the tag so you can draw your second choice hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When they changed it to here a couple of years ago, it used to be that all


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so by the time they got through that, if you didn't have max points, there were no tags left and they changed it here a few years back where half of the non-resident


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For somebody just getting into the draw is a good thing. For me, you know, I think I was at nine points when that happened and I was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, especially when you look at the 10% cap for non-resident. If you're, you know, if you have 15 or more points, there's somebody with 31 non-resident bonus points in Arizona.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Almost 3000, just under 3000. Almost 3000 with 15 or more. And you think, gosh, you know, if I've got 15 or more, it's going to still take a while to get through that. But then you go from 10 to 15, there's another,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 4,000, little over 4,000 there from 10 to 15, which is the range I'm in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Arizona, every unit I think has bulls over 350. I mean some of the units you can draw with, you know, archery units, the easiest to draw archery units in the state of Arizona, you can be hunting 350 plus bulls. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, they are there. Yeah. There's not a lot of them in, in those units. Uh, and you might not ever see one or you might see five of them, but just to know that you're, you're hunting in Arizona. There's a special feeling about having an Arizona elk tag for sure. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So one more thing that's worth mentioning, we did get an email here not too long ago, somebody expecting their first child and they wanted to start putting them in for bonus points in different states. They wanted to know what states would be the best to start collecting them in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think Arizona is the first one that you can collect bonus points in based on age and they have to be 10 at the time of the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I've started all of my children, you know, I've got a 17, almost 18 year old, a 16 year old and a 14 year old and I started all of them when they were 10.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll have children with 8, 6, and 4 points plus, uh, you know, they'll be able to take the Hunter Ed course hopefully when I do and loyalty points, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they have the early archery, the early muzzleloader, and the early rifle. And it goes in the order of archery, which this year is the 10th to the 23rd.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the archery only, and then they've got the muzzleloader tags that run basically the next day, the 24th through the 30th, and then this year the early rifle hunts run


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keep deer in and near to your heart, but some of those draw units, you know, that I'm only going to draw once every 12 or 15 years. I'm more than happy to share information if I have information on that hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know I get emails from people just random, hey I drew Colorado unit X whatever and do you have any information and unfortunately I've only hunted Colorado one time and it was an over the counter hunt and I wouldn't, I wouldn't send somebody I hate to hunt that unit so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I would say even on a drought year with a full moon, if you draw an Arizona early archery muzzleloader or rifle tag, you're going to have a better hunt than you'll have on any over the counter type of a hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's amazing down there how they can disappear because a lot of that stuff is just, it's not wide open, but you think you'd be able to see every animal that lives in the unit just by getting on a high knob and doing some glassing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Same with us, we had multiple bulls that kept giving us the slip and we never saw them again. And I think a lot of it has to do with the time of the year we were hunting, you know, that 14th, 15th of September, that's when the big bulls start roaming. And I know the bull that I ended up shooting, they had seen it in an adjacent unit during the summer. Uh, so it completely moved units, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that has a lot to do with those big bulls disappearing during the, during the rut is they'll travel a long ways looking for cows. Yeah. Well, I just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] During an early archery hunt, it can be super productive and you can kill big bulls, you know, that's probably the most efficient way to hunt a big bull is find out where they're going for water and set up a blind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And just understand that there are limited water holes now and the same number of tags in the unit. So it might be competitive getting a water hole to sit on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is crazy to me and I'd never experienced it until we hunted Arizona, but they have, they call them tanks. And so I'm expecting this great big metal water tank that they're putting water in. Well, they literally dig a hole.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they drive a water truck out there and they will fill these tanks manually by, you know, hand, man-filled tanks to provide water for the animals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A realignment of some of these systems in the future. I don't know how they can do it or what they can do, but I think there's going to have to be change to manage the numbers of hunters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and the resources, I hope that they look at increasing the resources instead of limiting the hunters. I hope that hunters look at the opportunities for working to increase the resources.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but I really think that, you know, like you said, you've gotta, you've gotta join the system to play. That's just, it's, it is what it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think there are opportunities to draw hunts in just about every state, maybe with the exception of Nevada. And even Nevada is a true bonus point system where you do have an opportunity with no points to draw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I think, you know, it's, yeah, you're taking a chance, but if you buy points in five states, you increase your chances. And I really think that even still today and in the foreseeable future, you're going to be able to draw a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe not a great hunt, but a decent hunt every three, four, five years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean people are invested in these systems now, so the number of people applying isn't going to change, it isn't going to decrease most likely anywhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you look at it and if you want increased opportunity, you've got to increase the resource. And Randy, you've talked about that a ton.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there are those who look at it as, hey, let's get rid of the competition. And there are others who look at it and say, hey, let's add to the resources. And I went ice fishing for the first time in my life yesterday.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And people are continually pulling out two pound plus perch and there was a picture somebody posted on a Facebook group for the, for the ice fishing here. And I think they had 80 perch laid out on a table and there's no limit on perch here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And people are giving them all sorts of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And once you start building them up, you get up to 15, 16 points and you're able to draw one of those states. And then you start over the next year with that. So you're thinking, okay, I'm at zero points. It's going to take forever to get back up there. But then three years later, you draw one of the best units in Arizona. And then three years later, you draw one of the best units in Montana or whatever it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you're willing to invest that time, you can hunt incredible units every three or four years if you have the budget to put in for all those different states. And by the time you cycle through those,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have fifteen or sixteen points back in the first date that you drew and you're looking at that, we're talking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A 15 year investment and then a 15 year period of drawing those prime hunts, but somebody that's 26.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know by the time they're 56, they could have hunted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Seven percent isn't going to get me anything. I'm going to have a thousand, you know, thousand and seventy dollars next year. And that's not that much. You know, I want to, I want a way I can double my money. And it just doesn't happen. But after ten years,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You got that compounded interest and now your money's doubled and, you know, it's kinda, you just gotta invest. You gotta start somewhere and invest and realize that it's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And go on. And there are states like New Mexico and Idaho that don't have a point system, so everybody has a fair chance, and that's, uh, that's, that's in addition to the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Coming from Idaho, state land here is, it's public land. I mean, it's open for whatever you want to do, hunting, fishing, camping, all of that. And so when I hunted with you in New Mexico and you said we can't camp on state land, I'm thinking,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] State owned land, and Colorado takes it a step further than that. It's private land. You live in the state, your state owns the land, and you can't access it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and honestly that was my goal when I created it was I don't want it to just be for beginners. I want it to cover everything that a beginner needs to know to be successful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I want to include things that people who have been hunting for 30 years can benefit from. And one of my goals when I first set out to be an elk hunter was if I'm going to educate people, if that's my true goal is to share


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm just, I'm dragging my feet to draw a tag or get a tag in Washington because it's, it's not easy. And I, I want to hunt, you know, Roosevelt elk is, is, uh, that's my Oregon goal. And I could hunt Roosevelt elk in Washington and hopefully be successful there. But I think I want to hunt Rocky Mountain elk in Washington just because it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's going to expand the tools you already have, the experience you already have. I hope that it will expand that and add to your success. It's not in any way saying you've got to completely change everything you're doing and do it exactly the way that Andy and I do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, hey, take what you know, whether that's nothing at all or whether that's more experience than we have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, just go to elk101.com, click on the link for the online course, and like Randy said, you can use the promo code ELKTALK and it's going to save you 20% or $20, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we look at all that we spend and we talk about gear and, you know, a new rifle, a new bow, boots, backpack.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Early archery, prime archery into maybe a prime rifle hunting, you know, October timeframe. But after that, I have no experience and even rifle hunting in October, I'm far from, from efficient at it. And that's why, what's it been? Two or three years now, I invited you to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Try to enlighten or educate the consumer. I'm, I'm all about that. Cool. I can't guarantee I'm going to do that, but I'll give it a shot. I'll give it a shot. Last time I think I told you talking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Synthetic and merino and down verse, uh, synthetic insulations like talking, uh, politics and religion at a cocktail party. Right. Not advised. Yeah. But I've never been called a smart guy, so let's get into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Through a point? But there's always a give and a take.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can make, you can make something quiet or quieter and make it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A hundred percent waterproof. So we have something in our line called the Thunderhead. So that's, that's a three layer, in that case, Gore-Tex, but it's got a quiet face on it. Quiet as we can make it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That face, even though you theoretically won't get wet or the garment won't absorb the water, the face of that will. And it'll get heavier. And then it'll get heavier, right? And so I think by one of your leading questions, we'll get into this, but when you have water sitting on the face of any kind of waterproof laminate,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really drastically starts to cut down on breathability. Okay. So there's, it's, I would call that a specialized piece, not something I would recommend for a backpack hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause obviously as hunters we want or we seek to get as quiet a garments as we can.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, it's also, you know, unless, like what, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My whitetail cohort, Chris, did with some of the whitetail stuff coming out next year and actually prove it with science of sound. Uhm, it's an opinion. So one, you know, it might be acceptably quiet for you, but not acceptably quiet for somebody else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, no, right now it's really tough to make something what I would call acceptably quiet to the masses in a super lightweight package that I would feel comfortable saying, yeah, you can go out for multiple days or 10 days, in your case, maybe on a sheep hunt, and take that garment. It's just, I haven't seen anything yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, if you're going into those, what I like to call dynamic weather environments, those Alaska, Canadian, even New Zealand type of environments,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, you have to have the best rain gear, quite frankly, you can afford because that is literally your first layer of protection from the elements, you know, from snow, from wind, from rain, uhm, you don't want it to leak, you want it to be durable, and ideally, for the money you're going to spend, you want it to last more than


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For, you know, the hunter that's spending 30 or 45 days in the field, he's going to get...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's gonna get tired of the jacket or the pant before it wears out. And that's, you know, you mentioned the BC Moose Hunt, but just because of the weather we had, you know, I was wearing that. It's actually updated for 2019.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we reduce some weight, increase the breathability and durability. Uhm, it's really cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, the reality is that's not what you mentioned isn't going to breathe at all. I mean, it's essentially rubberized, you know, cotton in a lot of cases or something along those lines, but. So how do you get breathability? Yeah, so not, not to go too in depth, but essentially you have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This membrane, uhm, most cases, or in our case, it's this, uhm, basically Teflon, right, that's, that's stretch and has,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Little holes in it, and the holes are large enough for moisture to move through from the inside out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A DWR of some type, so that's durable water repellent finish. So those are the things that make it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The snow or rain bead and runoff so it doesn't absorb those, those, uh, that, that moisture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's something you have to retreat over time. And then you normally have a backer, we call it, on the inside. Again, to kind of protect that laminate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those three things at Sandwich, like it's really, uhm, it's really...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I, I, I see you're giving a qualifier here. Yeah. Well, what I want to say is it's not. So I like to say that, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The hunter needs to be an active participant in this event. And what I mean by that is, I can sell you a jacket and I can tell you what does all these things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It really behooves the hunter to educate themselves on how and why it works so that when they're in the field, they can


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Modify or adjust what they're doing to get the best performance out of the jacket. So what I mean by that is if I put a storm front jacket on me and you and we start not that you and I are going to do this, but let's argumentably say we're 20 years younger and we're going to start running up the mountain. Okay. Yeah, I'm not going to do that. So at a certain point you are going to overwhelm that rain layer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you can imagine, there's only, those holes are only so large and there's only so many of them, so only so many can get through at a time. Molecules of moisture. Correct. Molecules of moisture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's gonna overwhelm it and it's gonna start building up on the inside while everybody's trying to get out, you know, the door of the concert hall, so to speak. So at that point, the hunter has to understand that and regulate his pace.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like literally you're going to make yourself wet with your own sweat, but you're also now dehydrating yourself prematurely. So it starts to send you down this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We would regulate our pace and hike up at a reasonable pace to not sweat and then that moisture is going to move through because, and I've said this in the past, but I really can't overstate this, that your body


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's say it's always 98.6, so your body is the engine, your body is the heat source that is going to push these


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These water, uh, this moisture, these water molecules right out. So it's going to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if all of a sudden you get to, you know, we're running and it's 102 now inside that garment and there's only so many spots for the molecules to go through, it's going to get overwhelmed. So when people wear, and I saw it a lot in Alaska and I'm guessing you have two now because you mentioned it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But when people wear like a Grundin's or some PVC coated, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like there's literally no holes for the moisture to move through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I mean, I personally don't feel that that is, uh, a smart decision, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I know a little bit and let's say that's all I had, I could regulate my pace and I could put layers on underneath to somehow, let's say, mitigate, right, the lack of performance of that garment. So a lot of times what you see with people


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, at least I saw with people that were doing that is they would just literally run around in their base layer underneath that PVC coated ring here because they knew they were going to get wet. They knew they were going to get hot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But again, all you're doing is prematurely dehydrating yourself. And you know, you go on a 10 day sheep hunt, like you need to kind of pace yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And not burn out the first day or two because you want, you know, maybe that opportunity you're going to get is on day 10. So I don't know. I kind of, I'm a little all over the board, but there's, there's a lot, there's a lot that goes into it. And I think that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like it's, I've, I've called it my crusade, but if you know, if I can help educate hunters to understand what's going on and why it's going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then they can then modify or regulate what they're doing at that point in time to get the best performance out of whatever system they're wearing. Got it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those Alder and Salmonberry jungles. I don't know if I was the first one in the world to coin the term, but I'll take credit for it. I should make t-shirts and I just say, hike angry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember the first time I was going up, I actually ended up killing my biggest black tail ever on that trip, but I remember going up a slope through Alder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unrealistic expectations of what, what a product can do. And so, you know, another thing that, that I say is there is no Superman's cape. And what I mean by that is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can buy, you know, our product, you can buy another brand's product. It doesn't matter, but there's no product in the world that you can just put on and expect it to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's say in that case, I would, I would argue that if it wasn't 100% humidity, it was really close, right? In a very high dew point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I talked about the moisture inside the garment that you are creating wants to go through and seek this equilibrium or stasis. If it's a hundred percent humid on the outside in the environment you're working in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a little, there's a little push from your, from your temperature


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The molecules don't really need to go anywhere because it's 100% humid on the outside. So just like it almost is on the inside. Exactly. So that, that, that, that gradient is so much lower now. And again, if you understand that as a hunter and go, well, why isn't this Gore-Tex jacket, you know, just crushing it and moving all this moisture again?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You need to understand and be an active participant in this activity and say, you know what? It's super humid out. The dew point's crazy high. The efficiency of this system is, is, uh, is, uh, restricted because of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I need to, I need to change what I'm doing or how I'm doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Conversely, if we're going, and let's say the weather clears, let's say we're up on a sheep hunt, we're at some elevation, it clears, it's really cold and dry, all of a sudden that garment just starts moving moisture like a champ.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? So again, I understand that maybe I can pick up my pace or whatever the case may be, but that's why people sometimes say, well, this jacket isn't working. Okay. Well, there's a series of questions you have to start asking people to really drill down and say, okay, what's happening here?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Windstopper is the most underrated technology in the outdoor space.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So essentially just in a real basic form, um, cause people say, well, what's the difference between a wind stopper and a Gore-Tex? And, and there's, there's several things, one of which is, is the way the laminate is, is made. And the other is that sandwich I talked about, how it's put together. Um, but, but essentially the holes are larger in that, in that Teflon, uh, to allow again, it's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But again, it's still preventing or giving you a barrier, uh, from that wind, right, to, to, uh, cut down on convective heat loss. But the sandwich is made in such a way that the entire thing is built to be breathable. So it's not just the laminate in the middle, it's the face, it's the backer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Together, but why I feel that it's an underrated technology is people say, well, I'm just going to put on my Gore-Tex jacket and I'm not going to spend the money to buy whatever wind stopper jackets. So in your case, the jet stream where I would argue that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My wind stopper garment is my 90 or 95% solution and I only need to put a Gore-Tex jacket on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When it's raining so hard that it's starting to compromise that system or, you know, I'm a big fan of our mountain jacket, so it doesn't have a hood. So if I need a hood, then I go to my Gore-Tex jacket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can keep a steadier pace. I can move moisture better. I can be drier. All these things regulate my temperature far better with a wind stopper product.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] than a Gore-Tex product. So, if we're going into the mountains,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to have rain gear because there's nothing that's that's going to protect you better than that. But 90% of the time I'm going to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, 100% of the time, I'm going to have a wind stopper layer with me, and there's a couple we have, so you can pick and choose, but I'm always going to take that, but 90% of the time, that's what I'm wearing. So, you know, you're sitting there on a glassy knob, the wind comes up. Yeah, you can put on a puffy layer, but a lot of times I just have that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe promoting it and educating people just on the technology, but I mean you have a wind stopper vest on right now. Like it is an amazing piece for as light a weight as you can get.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as little insulation as you can provide people, um, you know, maybe they don't realize that just having that wind taken off your core, in this case of you wearing the vest is all it needs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To keep your body at a steady temperature or to throw your collar up like you have right now to keep the wind off your neck. It's an amazing thing, but it's going to perform, uh, vastly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I'll say it more efficiently and more conditions than Gore-Tex ever would.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I've heard, you know, so many people say, well, I, you know, I hike up to the top of a, you know, my glassy knob for whatever species. And of course, you know, everybody wants to get up there quick. And so they, they sweat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then they get up there and inevitably, like you said, the wind's blowing and it doesn't have to be blowing all that much, right? I mean, it's that, that wind will strip heat away quickly. And then they say, well, I'm chilled and I need to change base layers and all these kinds of things. And I'm like, no.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, what you need to do is you need to either apply, in this case a wind stopper jacket, a really lightweight wind stopper jacket, which will immediately stop what


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I call flashing off, right? Where you just, you stop and that wind comes up and it literally just strips all that heat away and you become chilled very quickly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, or you need to put up some type of puffy jacket on, right? Some loft and insulation, whatever the case may be. But in certain cases, you need to actually have both, so the loft almost isn't enough and you have to have that wind stopper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You started, I believe you started this conversation by saying,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is it possible or people want to have lightweight, quiet, durable rain gear? And I said, well, that's pretty much impossible at this point in time. But I would argue that you can have that in a wind stopper product. And again, it's just because of the way you can construct it, those products do exist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's all kinds of DWRs, and interestingly enough, and I'm not a chemist, nor do I ever claim to be, but uhm, we're actually, Gore is working on, for the entire industry, some much more environmentally friendly DWRs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause apparently the ones kind of probably the good ones you and I liked 20 years ago weren't so good for the environment. So yeah, they're actually doing a lot of work on that. I don't, I'm not very privy to any of that. I wouldn't understand it anyways, but, but, but I would say a DWR is incredibly important to a wind stopper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or a, uh, Gore-Tex product or any kind of laminate product. Um, and you do need to, over time, you need to be able to retreat that. So, you know, I go on that moose hunt 12 days, I'm riding, I've got my rain pants on, crushing through brush willow and all that. I needed to come back and retreat those because it literally just took that, that kind of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've done the wash-in product. Uhm, I think, so, let me take one step back real quick. So, first thing is, do as I say, not as I do. Because uhm, I am absolutely a pig pen when it comes to rain gear and sleeping bags. Like, I literally never wash them. It's horrible. I know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So don't do that. But boy, you should do to get the best, not only the life out of the garment, but the most performance is like, again, when I come back from a trip or you come back from a doll sheep hunt, you actually should wash your rain gear. And at that point in time, even if it's not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I don't, like I said, I don't do it a lot, but, uh, I have found that the spray-ons after washing work a little better for me. Okay. Um, and there's, there's some good products and you know, if people called our customer service, we actually rec, recommend some.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we may even, we may even, um, send them some in some cases, but I believe Revive X is one, Granger's has some really good products. You know, there's a couple, there's a couple good ones out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So not necessarily the same, the same laminates that we would use on a jacket are very similar in the pants. You know, you're obviously all your internal organs are in your, your torso. So that's the one you really want to make sure you're regulating the most and obviously gets hotter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, my legs necessarily don't need as much regulation, but you have some full, full zips. Um, I would say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll talk about a few things, but one of the things I would say is, uh, that I see a lot of people not doing is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not sitting on some kind of ground pad when they're gonna sit down in glass. And even you know when it's relatively warm outside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, that, that earth isn't as warm as you think, and it, it sucks the heat right out of you, it's got moisture, all those kind of things, especially if you're sitting on rocks. Uhm, but we do have some products, you know, one of the pants has a water, one of our, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, that we have, or you know, if you're sitting on a saddle, you know, you're sitting in the saddle in the morning or you're going to go sit on a snow machine or an ATV or something like that. It's nice to have that, that waterproof seat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Especially over time, if, I mean, a sheep hunt or something like that, where you're gonna, you know you're gonna be in rocky terrain, you know you're gonna be glassing for long periods of time, like, if you can't focus and find that ram and be able to judge him effectively, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're really not doing yourself, you know, a favor, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's not going to hurt the membrane. Like I said, actually what it's going to do is cut down the inefficiency, efficiency of the garment. And let me go into a little more detail of why. So uhm, internally on the backer, or the liner, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Especially if you have like a short sleeve shirt on or something like that, but even if not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your body oils are gonna get on that face. And again, that oil is acting as a barrier, right? That oil is essentially, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, somebody standing in front of some of those doors saying, no, you can't come through here. Sweat, right? We call it sweat. Um, and on the outside as you get, um, dirt or sunscreen or insect repellent, some of those things on the face. Again, you're, you're cutting off some of those.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, exit points for that sweat. So it's really important to come back and to wash it if you want the most efficient, the longest life, all those kind of things. And you know, I mean, let's admit it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, these products are investments, right? They are any kind of laminate type product, be it Gore-Tex or anything else is not inexpensive and you want to get a long life out of it. And you absolutely should. That should be the expectation. Um, but again, you know, to do that, you should actually care for that product. So I would say do not hesitate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, to wash it and do not hesitate to put it in the dryer, uhm, to kind of keep that DWR on that face, uhm, active.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I have to put out a disclaimer because I can't talk about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the taping on the inside will begin to peel off, so uhm, but you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would say a high quality product of any type that's got a laminate, you shouldn't be afraid to wash and dry it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I gotta, I gotta admit that, you know, living in Kodiak for 15 years, I mean,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I became, I think the word is hydrophobic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the right hunt or for the right environment. And you know, you'd mention a lighter weight rain gear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And again, if you go lighter weight, uhm, you don't necessarily give up durability to get lighter weight. I mean, you could, but you don't necessarily have to. Uhm, but you can get...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Increased performance, you can get a little bit, uh, better breathability because again, that sandwich, so to speak, that we put together has thinner


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thinner textiles together, and so it's just, you know, it's not as uhm, it's not as long a journey to get through that, that sandwich, so, you know. For the sweat and evaporation. Yea, you know, and you and I obviously were very lucky to have access to a lot of different things. So I would, I would recommend, you know, if somebody's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's where you're going to hunt most of the time. You know, I don't think you need to go all the way to the guide worthy storm front type rain gear. You can get away with something a little lighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would say if you're gonna go on that trip to Montana for late season rifle, you're gonna go on that dream hunt for moose in Alaska.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, I think, you know, you need to, to, to kinda, uhm, you know, to kinda,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, thinking on the numbers in my head, I would say that the Jetstream jacket is absolutely the number one selling jacket in big game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then that, that combo you talk about, so it's a Jetstream jacket, and then it's either the Timberline pant or the Mountain pant. It's one of those two, but that, that trio right there is the lion's share of, of kind of the Western,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I want to say Western, I mean, you know, up to Canada and Alaska as well, but the kind of the Western hunter's arsenal right there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the technical answers would all be the same, but the application would be different, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I, I grew up in Ohio. I've hunted a lot of white tails. Very unsuccessfully for the most part. But nonetheless, I put, I literally put my time in, in the tree stand and can sit there, you know, all day, every day for 10 or 12 days. Um, and then still go home with nothing. But, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I still say that wind stopper is the single biggest technology that people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't understand for, for the whitetail guy, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause again, you're not, you don't have the capacity to move around. I don't want to take this into the whitetail realm, but you don't have the capacity to move around, nor would you want to in a tree stand. Right. So you, you cannot generate body heat. You know, you and I have the luxury of on a, on an elk hunt to get up and walk around. Yep. Right. Get up and walk around. I can stand, I can.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Desert Southwest area, even Southern Utah, you know, we're in Salt Lake now, but even Southern Utah South, I would say mountain jacket would be an amazing jacket paired with like the ascent pant. Like to me that, you know, I've hunted late season mule deer just like you have, or I haven't hunted coos, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, my go-to down in this kind of neck of the woods.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, but I still always use some type of wind stopper product and then I, I, I would be remiss and I want to make sure that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just cause we're talking laminates that, and I'd really kind of like to get your opinion on this as well, but I see people not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause we talked about hunt budgets, not spend the money to buy Gators. Right. And then that leads to a bunch of miserable, miserable days in the field.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you get wet, so somebody says, well, I have, I have waterproof boots. What do I need a gator for?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hear it all the time. Yeah. And like you said, wet grass, Dewey brush crossing a creek and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If the top of your sock, which almost inevitably sticks out above the top of your boot, gets water in it, then that capillary effect sucks it right into the boot. Now you've got wet feet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wet socks, which can be dried, but now the inside of your boot is wet, which depending on the hunt and the environment is not going to dry in the field. So you set yourself up potentially for blisters. You set yourself up for some cold related injuries, possibly at a minimum, you set yourself up just for a little bit of misery and suffering that you didn't need to do. So you put a gator on. So you had mentioned, um, and I know you, you've hunted a lot in Oregon, right? And that, that kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so basically kind of the same, but it's those coastal temperate areas, uhm, where yeaah, you can wake up and it can be completely sunny.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just a absolutely gorgeous bluebird day and you have to hike through a bunch of brush and it's either created dew overnight because of that dew point humidity or it's rained overnight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And people say, well, I'm just going to go and, and hike, you know, across the slope or up to the top or whatever, not put rain pants on, not put gators on. And within 10, 15 minutes, you're completely soaked now from the waist down. And again, there's, you know, and I've talked about it, there's ways to dry it out, but you're taking away from your hunting time and so


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I can take off and I can cross, you know, quickly, you know, even sometimes maybe almost knee high streams if they're short and I can go up through all that brush and Dewey grass. And you know, eventually when I get up, say into the Alpine, I can take it off. Or if I'm staying down in that low brush country, say hunting Sitka blacktail.


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[Assistant] I may keep on my rain pants all day, even though it's a bluebird, just to keep my lower body dry. You know? And, and so, um,


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting when you, if you hadn't experienced that, if say you're coming from the desert south, southwest.


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[Assistant] Depending on the hunt and what I have, I'll put them either in the sleeping bag, I've put them between the ground pad and the sleeping bag down near my feet, and a lot of times I'll use them as my first layer as a pillow. So on top of my ground pad, underneath my sleeping bag, and maybe put, if I have an extra layer, I'll put those on top.


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[Assistant] Just for the heat to keep the boot from freezing. Yeah, you know, if it's, so you know, you can imagine if you're hiking all day, you do have, you do have moisture in those boots. You just will. If it's cold, if it's that 20 degree scenario you're talking about, and I just take them off and put them in my tent,


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[Assistant] They're gonna be frozen in the morning. They're gonna, they're gonna be cold. They're not, and you know, and there's ways to kind of warm them up and mitigate that. But uhm, but so that's, that's one thing that I've done. But I, I can be wet all over, but I really truly try to keep


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[Assistant] So, you know, it's, it's really funny you mentioned this because I had this conversation the other day and, and maybe a few months before that or before this podcast, I was thinking to myself kind of what happened and you know,


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[Assistant] When I was in the military and training guys for so many years, uhm,


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[Assistant] We were basically anti-hood and part of it was, you know, if somebody's feeling kind of like down and lonely and whatever the case may be, like it's easy to pull a hood up and you know, and you can kind of suck back into your little sanctuary and, you know, your, your mental state kind of maybe decays a little bit. That aside.


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[Assistant] It also cuts off your peripheral vision. Like you absolutely at some point start to take yourself out of the hunt with a hood, or at least this is what I thought. And then also with the military applications getting on and off helicopters, you couldn't have hoods just blowing around in the wind, you know, so you had to tuck them away or.


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[Assistant] So anyways, I was kind of anti-hood and I don't know if it's just my increasing age or my increasing wisdom or just, or, you know, or whatever, but the last year, year and a half, I have become a hood fan.


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[Assistant] A hood fan, where I will have so that BC Musant


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[Assistant] I won't go through the full system I was wearing, but I had multiple hoods on at the same, not at the same time, but I had multiple layers with hoods on and I had no problem with that. You know, it was a colder environment. I'm riding a horse. I'm not really making a lot of heat on my own.


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[Assistant] At a minimum, you just pull it up. It keeps the back of your neck warm, right? You can pull it on for some protection. You can pull it on for heat and a lot of the hoods that we try to craft.


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[Assistant] Not all, but the vast majority are cut to the point where they provide enough protection.


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[Assistant] For women coming out in 2019 for the big game line, I actually, well, with, with the, with the women hunters, um, insight, but we put hoods on some of the layers that the men don't have, like the new mountain jacket has a hood.


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[Assistant] Uhm, you know, he's kind of done this science of sound thing, but he's doing some really interesting things with hoods and beanies, et cetera, that my guess is you'll see it begin to migrate across the line. But yeah, you kind of begin to cut yourself. I always felt I was cutting myself off from the environment by having a hood. And now, uhm,


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[Assistant] I just find myself going to a more and more and more. Like I said, even in the, you know, even in the sun, just pulling it up on an antelope hunt to take the, take the sun off your neck or just give yourself a little protection for your ears. Yeah. Um, yeah, no, that's funny.


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[Assistant] Yeah, no, this has been great because, you know, I feel like, um, over the course of a few podcasts, we've been able to, to kind of walk people from base layers, you know, all the way out and just give them a, a pretty good general overview. Um, you know, and I always encourage this.


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[Assistant] We go shoot our bows, we go to the gym, we shoot our rifles, we get on, you know, go hunting. And I just say now is, well, not right this second, but I would say going into shed season, spring season is a perfect time to begin to.


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[Assistant] You know, either take the system you have and go start to test it and think about some of the things we've talked about or, you know, maybe you buy a new piece or two and integrate it into what you've gotten and just go try it out and kind of think about what's going on and, and, um, you know, try to


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[Assistant] Find out a little bit more if you, if you don't understand why something's not working, you know, like.


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[Assistant] For Cicca, we have a great customer service department and you can call them and they'll walk you through, you know, almost any question probably you have and if they can't answer it and it's a big game, uh, question, quite frankly, they're going to come in and ask me and then I'm going to, you know, give them the answer and they'll go back with it. But, you know, it's,


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[Assistant] That's what, you know, we only have so many days to hunt in a season, but the fun thing is that I can be on Go Hunt.