[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we could tell they weren't going any farther. And so we went walking up behind them there and just said, Hey, what's your guys' plans? And the guy said, well, I actually have a cow tag and I'm trying to find a cow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so as we're standing there talking, I see movement out of the corner of my eye and I look down through the open, the road ends and there's an open basin across there. And maybe 500 yards from us, there's two cows walking along the edge of the timber in the open.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said, well, there's actually a cow right there. And he pulled up his binoculars and looked at it and said, I don't know if I can get one out of there though. We're on a road.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, it's gated, but it's flat. It's a flat road. Right. And we're 500 yards from it. He's got a cow tag. There's a cow there. You could easily get down to within 200 yards of it and get the shot. And he said, yeah, I just, I don't know if I can get one out of there. So yeah, I think they're definitely, and he was from Idaho.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, they want to shoot them within 200 yards on the uphill side of the road and slide them down to the truck and cut them in half and throw them in the truck, I guess.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's, you know, people always say, well, if you drop down in there, you're going to have to, you know, eat it, eat the elk there because there's no way you can pack it out and, you know, it's going to spoil before you get it out. I'm confident enough that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Honestly, in just about any weather condition, now if I'm in Arizona and it's 98 degrees and I don't have any shade to put meat in, yeaah, I'm probably going to lose some meat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but yeaah, I think it really just comes down to that confidence in knowing that you're going to be okay, that you're going to be able to either A.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Take care of it and know what to do to pack it out. I still see guys, you know, elk hanging at the butcher when we drop our elk off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of the elk, half the neck, half the, you know, the one front leg, half the ribs, half of the back strap, everything on there and pack it out. Or, you know, I don't, I don't know how far they're packing it, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, this is a good lead-in into the Sitka question of the week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. So I've got a question here from James Popejoy and he said, my friends and I are planning an elk hunt in Wyoming. We're having a debate on whether we should bone out the meat before hiking out or if we should leave it on the bone. What are your thoughts?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Front shoulders, hind quarters, you know, this is truly quartered, not the quarter of the elk, but actually the front shoulder taken off of the, off of the elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Having more troubles finding it than I should, but I want to say it was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Eight pounds for a front, uh, if you, if you take the shoulder and the leg bone out of the front, it'll save you about eight pounds. And it was 10 or 11, I think, uh, on the, on the hind quarter, if you take the bone out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, I'm real similar. Another thing to consider is if you bone that meat out, you've got a big bundle and if your game bags, you know, depending on what they are, if you're using something that's more like a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of meat, it isn't as easy to pack as maybe a quarter that's still on the bone and not quite as thick. So you can keep that weight distributed closer to the center of your body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We, uh, we took and cut open it. It was really warm and we shot it right at dark and we knew we had to, you know, come back the next day and pack part of it out. So on the hindquarters, we hung them in a tree, found the shadiest part of the, of the hill there. It's actually a little spring coming out. So it was the coolest part.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think those are, those are good considerations there. Um, weight is one thing. If you're packing it a long ways, it's going to save you time. I'm with you though. If you're going to bone it out, I'd leave it hang on the bone until it cools and then bone it out. So those individual meat pieces are, are cooled and not packed in there, retaining that heat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like calves, but you know cows, bulls, all of that was in there. The average weight of the bulls, so this is spikes through mature bulls, uh, front quarter with the bone in was 36 pounds, hind quarter with the bone in was 66 pounds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, boned out is about eight pounds per quarter that you lose when you take the bone out. So it's at 220 pounds of actual boned out meat is the average weight of a bull elk, of an average bull elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's 300 pounds that would have went on your back at some point and in some portion that, uh, that you didn't have to pack.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I live in Idaho, so that hits close to home. That's a ton of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Benefit to elk hunters. And if you're wondering if it's worthwhile spending $35 a year to be a member,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not about that. Go and support the chapter because that's local chapter. That's local money that's going back in right there where you're at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You hear results like 471,000 acres and 65 million dollars just in Idaho alone to improve elk hunting and elk habitat and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. And you get, you know, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation to team up with the Idaho Fishing Game, for instance. They both know the resources that are available for different projects that maybe through a completely non-hunting


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Group organization different grants and things like that so they team up they reach out to these resources and partner with them and pretty soon like you said they're putting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] $10,000 in, but they're collecting $100,000 through these other


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good luck on that hunt. I'm excited to hear back because hopefully we do get some weather and then we can further this discussion about late season elk hunting and hopefully by then I've found an elk myself and able to get one of my kiddos out and put some meat in the freezer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, you just told him to call me because you're going to be out elk hunting still.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All elk. All the time. Only elk. Only elk. Well, it's us having conversations, so we usually go down


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the podcast is also brought to you by OnX Maps. And with OnX Maps, you can know where you stand with the most accurate hunting GPS tech on the market with land ownership maps that work offline.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go to onxmaps.com and use promo code elktalk and you're going to save 20% when you sign up for an app membership at onxmaps.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Open rifle conducive terrain, so. Alright. Well, beautiful place. It is. Really beautiful place. I can see why you moved here. Yeah, I was hoping we would have some elk out in the yard here, but they're not here today. Alright. So maybe they'll, maybe they'll show up before we get done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hunt, successfully hunt an elk in every western state that allows.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some kind of over-the-counter or easily accessible tag for elk hunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, have you done it? With the exception of Washington and Nevada, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Nevada, I'm still in the process of drawing a tag there. Washington. I will probably, I may end up hunting Roosevelt elk in Washington. Uh, or I'll just go over the counter because they do have some over the counter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we do, and you've hunted, I know you've hunted Nevada. Yep. But I've not hunted Oregon. No. And you have. I've hunted it a couple times. So between us we've got every state pretty well dialed in with the exception of Washington, which


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think we've mentioned it before and I'll mention it again. That needs to be at the very bottom of your list, low on the radar, not for hunting quality, just for the navigating the regulations and getting a tag. Yea, the cost.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which we need to take offline and talk about our plans for this fall in Montana.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So those are the states I think we're going to cover, right? Yep. Yeah, and I think, you know, it's worth mentioning with Idaho and several other states, as we get into it, we're talking about controlled draw hunts right here. And a lot of these states, if you apply for a controlled hunt and you have to buy a license like Idaho,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You've got the license, you might as well plan on going hunting over the counter if you don't draw your hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no reason to buy a license and sit on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And why maybe why we apply for some states and don't apply for others. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As often as they can. Every year, I mean, ideally, and I know for some that's not realistic, but at least every other year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. Uh, leading up to that point. It'll make that hunt seem easier and it will be much


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't remember when we started. I've got 17 or 18 points now. Now you do. Oh, and I bet when you started. Oh, we were looking, we were looking at drawing, you know, unit two, unit 10, Northwest corner. And I think it was seven or eight points as a non-resident to draw those hunts when we put in. So our strategy was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll build up to 8 or 10 points and draw the premium hunt in the state. And I'm still.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 10 years behind. You know, I haven't gained any ground since I started putting in. And it's the point creep you talk about every year. It takes one more point to draw those premier hunts. And you know, it's a whole nother discussion about bonus points, preference points, whether they're worthwhile or not. But just know that if you're going to play the game,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's if you're looking at it right now and you say, I want to hunt this unit and it takes eight points to draw in eight years, it's probably going to take.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I'll do. And we've hunted Wyoming six times in the last eight years. Really? Yeah. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they've all been, you know, just general, general tag, general hunt, but it's, yeah. You guys have done remarkably well. Yeah. It's good hunting. It's tough hunting. You know, we talked about it in Wyoming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Podcast, but the beauty of Wyoming is you can draw a good hunt. You know, it's not, I'm not going to say a quality hunt where you're going to shoot a 300 inch bowl every year or anything like that, but you can have a good elk hunting experience in Wyoming and there's several other states as well. Um, but it is a draw hunt, but it's one of those short term strategy locations for me. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or their guaranteed backup, you know, if you apply, for instance, if we apply for Wyoming this year and don't draw it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, on the flip side of the short term, long term, you know, Colorado was your short term. It took you 19, 20 years. I was kind of the opposite looking at Arizona and Arizona was my long term strategy. It was the first state I started applying for and building points in anticipating, you know, back in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 2000 or so, so 18 years ago, 19 years ago, that it would take 8 or 10 points to draw good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Quality archery rut hunt. And we drew the first time with four points and then drew again with three points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we, we got lucky. You know, we. Clean living, my friend. Well, it was, uh, it was due to somebody else's errors both times. So we took advantage of that. And, you know, my, I was looking at it as, Hey, by 2010 somewhere in there, we're going to hunt Arizona for the first time. And we drew a tag in 2005.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know, the second we got back, we already had a plan in place. We're going to put in again and we're going to build up and yeah, it'll take eight or 10 years, but it'll be worth it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The hunt itself and realistic expectations of what.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think we could draw, according to Go Hunt, I just got on there last week, we could probably draw this year, but I'll probably wait and hold off another year. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You see, you still have patience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right now it seems like our hands are very full. But come September and October, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have a, I have a truckload of hunting partners. It does extend my time in the field because my wife is very supportive of, if you take one of the kids to go do something, go and do something. And so it makes it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we get that a lot and it's happened a couple times and it puts me in a, in a bit of a bind. Cause I do, you know, I try to be, and I say this and if my wife's listening, she's going to come right in and say, did you really just say that on the podcast? I try to be respectful of the time that I'm away from home. Especially because September,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would love to fill all 30 days with Hunting Elk in September because they only bugle for so long. But I also realize right now in the time we're in in life and you know where we are with our children.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe go for a big hunt and go for a mid-range, midterm type hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Both in a September time frame hunt, it would be, it would be difficult.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I've actually heard of people going down and scouting the unit they drew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The week before the hunt opens and not seeing the quality of animals they want or it being too hot or dry and they call and turn their tag back in the day before season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, because here in Idaho, you guys have that second draw. Yeah. And honestly, if the Idaho fishing game,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is an opportunity to draw a tag that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Somebody's gotta draw, and every year I know somebody who draws a leftover tag, so. So those are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know you can buy a tag in Idaho or in Colorado or in sometimes Montana.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's the, you know, going back to the whole bonus point discussion, so many states start down that road, not real, not looking ahead 20 years. Right. And they have to make changes to the system. And it always makes people upset because you've invested for 15 years and all of a sudden the carpet gets pulled out from under you. Arizona did it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, they went from their normal 10% cap on non-residents to allowing more in the, in the first round pool and that changed it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It made, I think, three to four years longer to draw tags now because fewer tags are for the guaranteed preference round. Right. And that happened to us. We were sitting on, three years ago, enough points to draw the unit we wanted to draw, and now it bumped it out three or four more years. And my backup plan, so when I drew Arizona,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was going to draw a quality hunt and then from there, I was going to go every three or four years and draw another tag in Arizona for a lesser quality hunt, but still it's Arizona. So you can still say quality in that sentence. And now that that unit that used to take three points to draw,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Send it all in if you draw, you're already paid, you get the license and tag, and you go hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you don't draw, you can choose to get everything sent back. And for me, I would never go to New Mexico if I didn't draw an Elk Tag, at least in my current application strategy. So I would take the refund and get it refunded. Of course, the last time I checked the box I wanted to refund, you and I drew and they charged my credit card.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or, if you know you're coming to Idaho and you're already guaranteed to buy a license, put in for the draws. Before you buy your tag, put in for the draws, you know, shoot for the moon, try to draw a quality hunt. If you don't, you have the license.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So to use that $800 that you get back from Wyoming to now apply, it's about the same price I think in New Mexico, the tag is 7 something. Something like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you can draw a tag in either of those states because it's a bonus system. So it's just, you know, you have a chance in every, every draw, but the reality is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's one of the, Oregon has a lot of opportunity. Oregon has a lot of over the counter tags for both Roosevelt and Rocky Mountain Elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the draws in Oregon, you know, you've got the Wenaha, you've got Mount Emily, you've got, you know, a handful of units up in that area that are good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's kind of the same thing. I used to be able to draw the sled springs unit archery for two to three points as a non-resident. When I first started putting in, I drew it with ten.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's at least that now. And so looking at that hunt, it's not a 10 point quality hunt. You spend 10 points on that. You're going and hunting. There's a lot of other people's there. There's limited access because of the timber company that owns most of the unit. And so it's just the draws in Oregon. You've got to buy the license.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just, it's kind of like Nevada Utah situation. Don't put in Oregon for the draws, but if you want to hunt Oregon over the counter, you might as well put in for the draws and build a point since you're buying the license anyway. Right. If you view Oregon as your


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think, you know, even stepping back maybe if you don't have a thousand dollars.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, you know, when I drew the tag, it was like, oh gosh, my credit card just got hit. Now I've got to cover that. You know, so I wasn't counting on drawing right then. I was just planning on sending them my $160 every year. And back then I think it was 130 or 140.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I would at least be buying points in Colorado and Wyoming for less than a hundred dollars a year and building those so that in four or five years when you are ready to draw, when you have a thousand dollars set aside to buy the license on the tag and go on a hunt, you've got the points and you're ready to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So at the very least I would do that. Oregon's $160 for a point, which I probably wouldn't put that high on my list.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Montana, they changed it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody should apply here. No, that's where I was going with this is we aren't applying necessarily for these home run units. We're kind of taking a chance a lot of times that here's a unit that might have some potential that's easier to draw. And a lot of times we get there and find out our over the counter backup option would have been 10 times better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not just elk, it's a great big title at the top of the spreadsheet. What does it say? Year of the Elk. So you're focusing on elk this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What just dawned on me? What happens if you fill your elk tag in September?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just saw you had an extended clear out to January. There's opportunities to hunt clear out into January. Oh yeah, but that's not elk, that's deer. But there are elk hunting opportunities in January. Really? Where at? Uh, here in Idaho. What are you talking about? Uh, there's some cow hunts. Really? I did not know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well that's, that's been our number one requested topic that we touch on is strategies for hunting cow elk. Okay, I'm good in talking about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And basically you're paying $400 something more just to get in the pool that has most of the time better draw odds. Most of the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they square your bonus points there, so you have 9 chances, which sounds really cool until you realize a guy that has 8 bonus points has 64 chances. And the guy with 20 bonus points?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, my strategy is a little different this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, similar to you, I have a short-term backup plan that's guaranteed, then a mid-term and a long-term strategy, and I try to keep


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Points built up so that I always have something on the horizon on the long term, something quality every three, four, five years. And that would be, you know, Arizona, uh, New Mexico, which again isn't really a strategy, but applying for a premium unit, premium hunt in New Mexico, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or Nevada, which I'm still, I think I have five points in Nevada, so I've got a ways to go there, but those are, those are some of my long-term quality strategy hunts. And I'm to a point now where I've got 18 points in Colorado, so I can't draw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The good quality hunt. Right. But that's a long term strategy at this point. Yeah. So I've got enough points to draw the hunt I'm looking at there. I've got enough points to draw the hunt I'm looking at in Arizona, which will be a quality hunt. And I have enough points to draw the hunt that I'm looking at in Oregon, which is a... We don't know. There's potential potentially. Potential potential. Yes. So. I've got enough points to be guaranteed to draw those.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've got points. I could draw Montana. I've got five points in Montana now. So the hunt we've talked about, I could draw that. So I've got some guarantees with the points that I have, but we're going to do that Destination Elk day by day series again this fall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, trying to strategize a game plan for that...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Changes because of who we're going to hunt with, where we want to hunt, what we want to accomplish with those hunts. So my goal for this fall is to hunt all three species of elk. So we've got Rocky Mountain, we've got Roosevelt, and then Thule.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We knew that before you said, I'm an idiot folks. So I know my, my strategy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm still working on it right now, but in order to hunt Tuli Elk, I'm looking at the options and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're not good. California is the only state that has Tule elk. They only offer one, potentially one non-resident elk tag in the draws for the Tule elk. And that could be a cow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really good to talk about the conservation efforts in all three species and what's different about them and how the Rock and Milk Foundation's hunted or conserved them and helped so that we have hunting seasons for them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's kind of the letting the cat out of the bag on our plans for destination elk. So that changes, you know, I have to look at Tule elk now and figure out what my options are there. Uh, Roosevelt elk are a lot easier because they're over the counter in Oregon or Washington or California has Roosevelt elk as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's, you know, kind of plan two is the Roosevelt Elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And with being gone on two out of state hunts, that kind of relegates me to hunting at home for Rocky Mountain Elk. So, depending on what happens with getting the Thule tag, we probably will just get a point in Wyoming and a point in Arizona.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, for all but the Thule and figure the Thule out. So if anybody's listening and knows any of the ins and outs, I have several friends who are helping me right now figure out the Thule, but I know that the state draw is not the route that I'm going to count on. Gonna be hard. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's our plan. And then, uh, so I'll end up, I'll buy a, or I'll apply for a license in Montana. And you and I have talked about doing a late season hunt for elk there, which again, be a rifle hunt. I've only ever shot one elk with a rifle in my life. So that'll be a fun experience. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It does. And that's, you know, part of the strategy again of next year I'll probably draw potentially Colorado and Arizona.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'll be out of long-term strategies at that point because those are my, you know, my.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was really, I mean, insanely...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Popular is not the right word. People loved it though. Just to be able to follow around. And you know the day by day hunts. We did day by day season, so it drug out our whole elk season. And people were able to follow along from day one, every day we hunted elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Neat, we hunted Roosevelt Elk for the first time, but this year I thought we have to have some kind of a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It doesn't get talked about and just talking about the differences in how they respond, differences in, you know, the rut differences in the body size, the antler size, in addition to all of the conservation differences in the habitat and terrain challenges that each of them face.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And not only the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation's efforts in conservation, but just in, uh, opportunities and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Other things and you know, in future years we might look at hunting, you know, back east or something. Alaska has Roosevelt elk and some different, you know, off the grid hunts that, that don't get a lot of attention. Yeah. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I think we're probably ready to wrap this up. You think so? And on that note, do you have Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation access?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, there's several of them here, but I think to tie in with what we're kinda talking about, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going into your question there, hopefully something that we've talked about here is helpful, especially for someone looking to just get in on the points game. So we'll go ahead and bypass that one. I think, you know, as we start talking about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The different states and going into details in each state and offering information and we're going to talk a lot about GoHunt Insiders. We talk about each of those states because you and I both use that personally as part of our application strategy is the first thing we do is get in there and look at what our options are and opportunities.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That we hunt with. And he says, yet these methods, for example, aggressive calling and use of technology advances such as trail cameras and mapping products are exactly what other successful and well-respected hunters such as Chuck Adams and David Peterson claim are detracting from the hunt and changing how elk behave. Which leads to the question, do you and I, the hosts,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I guess he follows up and says, or will elk continue to alter how they communicate and be pushed deeper into the hinderlands and potentially less suitable habitats as a result of incessant pressure by everyone with a smartphone and a pocket full of elk calls? Further, do the hosts, you and I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my platform has always, since I started Elk101, been about educating elk hunters. I mean, that's, that's what Elk101 stems from. The whole 101 in it is the educational side of it, to be able to share my experiences with others in a way that will contribute to their success. And I think in hunting, uhm, we're seeing a shift a little bit, hopefully, I think,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That now we have a voice in politics by adding to our numbers, by getting more hunters and recruiting more hunters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We now have more people who are able to take a voice on the political side and make sure that we're protecting habitat and preserving.


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[Assistant] What we have and conserving what we have. And Will Primos, I had an opportunity to sit down with him for a couple days at his home in Mississippi, and we were just talking about, you know, our children, talking about what we do with Hunt of a Lifetime and taking youth with life-threatening illnesses, hunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said it's so important that we forget about ourselves and think about that next generation. And he said we have to teach.


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[Assistant] And the people who are going to be successful are going to be successful whether it's today or ten years from now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yes, we might shorten the curve for them, but I don't see...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And like you said, the net benefit to gaining


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A stronger, united voice of elk hunters to be able to protect and conserve elk and become members of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and support the archery industry and the gun industry and support the local state economies that rely on hunting to manage their big game. I think it's providing longevity for what we love.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would just disagree with that. Yeah, there might be fewer people in the woods, success rates might, you know, go down, overall harvest might go down, which for us, it's like, man, there's more elk, this is all great, great, great, until you run into that brick wall and realize,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We didn't have enough of us standing up for something we love.


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[Assistant] Hopefully that's a better trip for him. I'm very realistic that all the information that I've ever put out that you and I have ever put out, um, collectively is a lot, but nobody's gonna be able to consume it all and go out and be a hundred percent successful every year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's like saying that by providing a college education that everyone's going to be a millionaire and there's not going to be any money for anybody to make anymore because we have all these smart people out doing it. No, it creates more opportunities.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as we get more passionate elk hunters from back east that are able to come out here, go on a dream hunt and realize how incredible elk hunting is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very well thought out question. I don't think he was going down that trail necessarily. More of our tactics of hunting. You know, as far as being aggressive with calling and all of that. Are we educating the elk and making it so that they go...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Farther away and get harder to hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And share a passion. I think that's, you know, that sometimes maybe gets lost in the business side of what we do. That this all boils down to, we're passionate elk hunters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Etch out a small little living doing what we love.


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[Assistant] Somewhat of an exception, but most states that have hunting, uh, hunters are not the majority of the population and that's, that's scary.


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[Assistant] Is there a negative to it? Yeah, you could look at it and see that there is, but is there a positive that far outweighs that negative and I think will more than fill any void on the negative side? Absolutely. Yeah, I hope so. That's the Sitka.


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[Assistant] Welcome to Muay Thai Bones. What do you think maybe is the best one?


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[Assistant] Okay, tell me the, tell me what an awakening feels like or what we're talking about in terms of an awakening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, what's the Rosetta Stone? The Rosetta Stone was, uh, a stone...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, that contained languages that had not previously been...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Suddenly lots and lots of texts. Ancient texts. And readable. Or readable.


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[Assistant] A culture of writing. So why are we comparing clinch to writing?


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[Assistant] Why, why pursuing clinch? Why becoming a clinch fighter in the first place? It's a kind of interesting little side story. If you would allow me to like, let's take a little loop around on this. You're a very physically small,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fighter. And uh, as you came to Muay Thai, uh, because you were small, you were told by many knowledgeable people that you should be a little like evasive, hop around, don't hit me, hit and don't be hit. Fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, but with Muay Thai, which he doesn't, he's not really a Muay Thai fighter, but in the Muay Thai world, this was really thought of as like, this is how women should fight. This is how small people should fight. Is this Muay femur, which is artful, kind of a slightly evasive,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Identity to discover that Muay Kow is an alternate form of Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, but alternate in the sense that it's often included, hit it against. It's the nemesis of moithymor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Muay Kao and clinch fighting is its own art form. And then the more interesting discovery is you can use it to beat really good Muay Thai fighters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of becoming a clinch fighter has been part also like this journey of discovering this style that's close to an identity for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, you're like, I think I'm a swan. Totally. Like a hawk swan. So uhm.


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[Assistant] So, in realize, in pursuing this technique,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and this art form we kind of discovered because of the Muay Thai library. For those that don't know what the Muay Thai library is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Patrons pledge every month and they get access to a lot of exclusive content, but one of the big things, the big project is driving across Thailand and filming with legends of the sport.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Through this, you've actually been exposed to an incredible number of high level masters of clinch fighting and knee fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you kind of developed a library in your own head.


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[Assistant] A knowledge base that I think is unprecedented in the history of the sport. Just in terms of exposure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you're developing a technique, usually, usually you have one dominant coach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So your coach is teaching you his style. If you're in the West, it's maybe even more the case like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You need to learn your coach's style. A really good coach would be able to like, maybe give you versions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of his knowledge that would be good for you, and not good for someone else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So part of the challenge that you've faced is


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[Assistant] Maybe we're talking about your vocabulary increasing, but part of the reason why your vocabulary is increased is that all these years you've been taking on vocabulary.


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[Assistant] These people literally taught you their


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[Assistant] I think of it in terms of dialects, like a language has dialects. You've learned, you haven't learned Italian, you've learned Italian and tend dialects in Italian.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're saying do whatever the teacher in front of you is telling you to do.


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[Assistant] And that's why I compare these, these variations in clinch and moickau fighting and all fighting styles to dialects. Because a dialect is not an independent language, but it's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a whole form of communication that's consistent unto itself.


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[Assistant] And in some languages, you can push the dialect so far that people outside of it can't even really follow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what's kind of interesting is that you've kind of been studying dialects of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Technique and styles in the Moikau tradition with great variety.


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[Assistant] And just to interrupt real quick, Long Clench was developed with your study of Tonadette.


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[Assistant] Up here in Chiang Mai, and there's a Muay Thai library session of that. It's an incredible branch of Muay Thai. And then the lock didn't only come from Bank in Petrung Rung, but Bank's, uh, uh, Pinu's son. But it was, it was founded on your learning it from him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You started exp- if I understand it, you started experimenting and moving from...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tonadette, a northern, it's a northern style clinch. It's a Banks-like. Fuckin'. Bank.


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[Assistant] So lock, uhm, like a safe house. Lock an unmovable kind of freezing of your opponent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the interesting thing to me is, is that, Bang's a lock fighter, he doesn't do a lot more than that. Tomadette is a long clinch fighter, he doesn't do a lot more than that. But you are, because you're studying in both those styles, you're able to move between them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And kind of creatively move between them. Whereas you can build, you can actually build


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[Assistant] You can discover what are the natural transition points between a lock fighter and a long clinch fighter.


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[Assistant] And this is what also is interesting to me is in lock fighting, it depends on your opponent, but in lock fighting,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can get to it if you really hit the lock right. You can get to an inescapable spot where you will just destroy in the round.


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[Assistant] What's really kind of interesting to me is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because in a fight, everything is high stress and high tension, it's very hard to hit techniques exact.


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[Assistant] Like you're not going to hit the sweet spot in it. Which means that, and sometimes you'll get opponents that can kind of manufacture escapes. But what's really interesting is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's answers, especially if you can't get the exact positioning that you need.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the same thing with the, same thing with the long clinch. Just using those two examples.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you are in a lock for four seconds and your opponent's working on solving it, you just move to a long clinch and you give them a new puzzle before they break it, before they break the code. And as your vocabulary increases,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're not just moving between lock and long clinch, but you're also doing the arm loop or you're throwing in low clinch or you're throwing in trips, you can keep changing the puzzle before the code is cracked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's what I see what's been happening in fights recently is you're moving between puzzles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so if you're a tripping fighter, it's not a trip, but it's like, you're going to have to deal with the fact that I can trip you at any time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that becomes a mode of fighting, which is tripping fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're a locking fighter, your opponent is like, holy fuck, I gotta stay out of the lock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's why it's not a move. That's why it's not a move, though, is because the move actually implies a larger context, a way of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This goes to a larger philosophical, well, maybe philosophical too strong a word, but,


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[Assistant] The difference between a move and the context in which that move gains life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is kind of a struggle that Muay Thai has with its, uhm...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exportation to the west and probably Japan and other countries is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Much of it is taught by people who are not in the muay thai culture. People come to Thailand, study, train, fight. They learn the techniques, but they haven't stayed long enough to absorb the entire style of them. And then they, then it gets exported. They become coaches or trainers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and also you, you've done, you've done this kind of like clinch immersion. This is like seven years ago.


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[Assistant] And so, I don't know, can you talk a little bit more about what you think brought on


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[Assistant] At Petron Rung, High Boys, Stadium Fighter. He had just gotten strong and big.


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[Assistant] And this is what happens as the Thai boys come through, Sylvie clenches with them and they just outgrow her. And suddenly she's facing somebody who not only is as skilled, if not more skilled, but also physically


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Strong. And physical strength's a big deal in technique. Because if you don't hit the technique right,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can still muscle the technique if you have the strength to do it.


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[Assistant] So your tolerance, when you're facing someone stronger than you, the tolerances by which you can lose become wide.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like your opponent, your, your clinch partner doesn't have to hit the right technique in order to overwhelm you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so you, the consequence was,


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[Assistant] You got incredibly conservative with your clinch. You became a dead still lock fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you were just trying to survive against the-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so you'd fight for your position, and then you'd get a very fucking, like, pit bull lock on, and just hold on for dear life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fighters that were bigger than you but not as skilled as you, you had developed this pattern, this habit of locking hard and not moving. Yep. And what was happening was because the way that a lot of Thai female fighters fight you is they basically try to neutralize. Alright. Battery change. As we do. Uhm, so we were talking about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How, like the things that might have led to this sudden vocabulary increase, right?


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[Assistant] Change of partners, you starting to concentrate on fluidity and movement between positions, like not


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[Assistant] Not getting, uh, to your position and just holding. Surrendering good positions, right?


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[Assistant] And you also had Mink come in who's like heavier but much less skilled.


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[Assistant] Totally. Uhm. Boy, I lost my train of thought there.


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[Assistant] What came to my mind when you were talking about heavy versus heavy, or being strong on strong?


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[Assistant] There's this little thing that happened in your last fight. We're driving back, Sylvie just won a world title. Uh, versus, uh, Nong Benz. Giving up a ton of weight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a little thing that happened in that fight you told me about where he knew is telling you to like leverage out your elbow when you're in the frame and you're scarecrowing somebody.


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[Assistant] Let's talk a little bit because that's about not using, or using technique against strength.


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[Assistant] Well, it's not that position because you're trying to go outside. That position is inside.


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[Assistant] I have a photograph still from this moment in the fight.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but it's not, that sounds un-technical. His frustrations are very technical.


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[Assistant] Like this is the thing, it's like, a move would be arm loop. Yes. The feeling is, how do you get to the arm loop from where you are? And this is why Muay Thai Clinch is like a full on martial art to itself. It's standing BJJ.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because there's feelings on how to get from positions to positions. The transitions are where the art is and where the feeling is. And six months ago you could have never gotten to that arm loop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's really interesting that the feeling is starting to grow. Something that might have started with, uh, the feelages of, uhm,


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[Assistant] The intergame of tennis reading group we did eight months ago or whatever that was. This philosophy of moving towards the feeling. But that was really cool that there was this decisive moment in the fight where you were kind of in a slightly inferior position and you just had the patience to slowly transition out against strength.


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[Assistant] Even though you're a strong fighter, you're like, I know you can't hold that position.


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[Assistant] I don't want to go too far in this one direction.


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[Assistant] This is something that very, I don't know how you even feel about this, but this is something very special about your path as a Muay Thai fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that for a long time you wanted to be good. Which was just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have nice looking Muay Thai, like as many people do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And instead you found yourself on this clinch-moi-cow style and you're exposed yourself to so much vocabulary, a library of techniques.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know that there's a fighter in the history of Muay Thai, Thai or Western, who's been exposed to this much high level knowledge. Because...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The way you learn stuff in Thailand, like if you're a Thai fighter, is you're taught within your gym. There might be like three technique families in your gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're exposed to a pretty narrow though elevated family of techniques.


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[Assistant] Because of the uniqueness of the multi-library, you've been exposed to like 20.


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[Assistant] Like, complete styles. And I don't know that there's ever been a fighter who...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Has had that kind of depth of exposure. And you now have an encyclopedic brain where it's like, oh, facemush? There's five ways to facemush.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's five angles to put your shoulder at. Should you stand up? Should you pull away? Like, Sanctinoy does it this way. Karaha does it this way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're, you now have the opportunity to like explore, especially since you're moving towards feeling now, a really big, this is why we talk about like Rose out of Stone, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, tell me about this analogy. We had a little bit of this discussion before we started the camera. The Novikov of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Vocabulary. Like we compared some of these decisions to Nabokov, one of your favorite authors.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not like, oh, he throws in all these language words. His sensitivity to language because he...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Has that sensitivity in many languages makes him an unparalleled writer in English. Yes. Like the way he uses English words is unreal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, oh my god, my own language can do that.


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[Assistant] Macau is thought of often as a kind of like, march forward, grab, knee, power fighting.


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[Assistant] But it really has incredible subtlety in it.


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[Assistant] If you come at it with a large vocabulary.


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[Assistant] Cardio out somebody. You can't fight that way. But, like this thing you were talking about, where you just put a little pressure on her arm and waited for her strength position to decay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which led to a knockout. That's fucking unreal. To me, that's what we're talking about, this Nabokov kind of concept.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But lacking in subtleties sometimes, but to be able to use it with great subtlety. That's what Navacav is kind of like. And I feel like you are heading towards this kind of Navacavian.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you continue to be able to open your pathway,


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[Assistant] Which is kind of like, and then what's interesting about it is I don't know of any fighter in the history of Muay Thai and maybe there's some slick Isan fighters where this has been the case.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Any fighter in the history of Muay Thai that has used clinch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To defeat much, much larger opponents over and over and over again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Clench is usually a power attack. It's not often used by smaller opponents.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You are doing this thing. We have that cool experience of watching, I think it was that pride documentary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you're able to use techniques to defeat larger opponents, you really are exposing the art of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's what's happening in your career path because you're only going to be fighting bigger and bigger opponents and you're having to learn to use the vocabulary of Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. One last little bit that I think has really been a huge impact on really why you've had an explosion. Well, I'll call it an explosion because I'm a dude and everything explodes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Explosions, the Michael Bay version, Michael Bay analogy. The explosion of vocabulary is the work you've been doing in Vipassana, which is very, an hour a day, sometimes two hours a day. Uhm, you've been on several retreats, but this seriousness with which you've kind of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is in contrast to the pressures you feel for, for performance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the fact that everyday you're stretching your mind out to these like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just for, people don't know, Vipassana is not about like, chilling out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's growing the awareness of your body, right? And mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I liken it to when, when you're under tension or in your, in your everyday states of mind, you have a diameter, like your pipe has a very small diameter and there's only so much water that can flow through that. When you are, when you are


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Moving towards your Vipassana states, your pipe has a very wide diameter and more water can flow through that. And I feel like that's the same thing that's happening with your techniques is somehow the diameter has changed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you talk about that at all for me? Or you know I'm really connected?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you just talk about this sometimes when you come home and you're like, Oh, I was totally getting this great lock on make, but I can't, I wasn't locking it on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's very cool, that part of technique.


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[Assistant] That's one of our favorite pet peeves about this, don't pivot that leaf leg. It's so ridiculous. Uhm, and then, what are we at? We're at two minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you real quick throw in this? I really want to get this little technical thing. How you were moving between the long clinch and the, and the lock with Banks lock and Tonadette. That experience of like how you were figuring out the root of a technique. Do you remember we were talking about that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were saying I understand the root of it. So that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well anyways, talk about how you were moving, how these are two complimentary things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In range control, in fighting in space, this is what you do, you change range.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, you have close range weapons like hooks, or elbows, or knees, and then long range weapons, teeps, head kicks, and what not. And then as you change, if you can change range as a in space fighter, you're hard to deal with. Because the target is never where it quite was. Where it was five seconds before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That you can accordion out space in clinch and be unsolvable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's kind of what's exciting to me is that you're also developing these like spatial freedoms that come in the, with the territory of those dialectics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It feels like a new landscape is kind of opening up for you. And so what we're doing is we're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're training with Thanadette every month when we go up to Chiang Mai to keep the long clinch, uh, dialectic going. We're training with Karahat every month because he has this, this beautiful, shouldery, slippery clinch style that also has a great waist throw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, he doesn't know I'll be back in the gym fucking teaching you knee shredding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


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[Assistant] So Cory accuses me of not having good notes. So.


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[Assistant] Folks, we were going to use the, my legs for the white balance, but we decided to use white paper for white balance. So, all right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where are we Cory? Do we want to be formal in this? Of course we want to be formal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where, where are we at? Total Archery Challenge? Total Archery Challenge, Big Sky Montana. Windy Big Sky Montana, so if you hear a bunch of static and background, it's not because we don't know what we're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, we really want the dirt. I mean, the idea is folks, when this is all done, Corey will have no partnerships left in the sponsorship world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You only get five, but before you do that, we gotta, we gotta talk about, uh, the fact that the title sponsor of this podcast is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Whose booth is right here behind us, even though I see all that Mountain Ops stuff. This is the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation booth over here. And uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go. I'm getting down. There you go. And if you aren't a member, some people even said after they did comments, after hearing you guys talk about what the Elf Foundation done, it does, I went and signed up. Perfect. They should.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the other sponsor is Gerber and I was gonna wear my Gerber hat today, but I woke up kinda late and I had to run and get dilly bars.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're gonna wanna have one of their Gerber Vitals and one of their, if you, if you really wanna go big, the big game vital. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well anyhow, great company, makes great products here, supporting conservation, hunting, everything else. We're happy that they are part of this. Uh, then we got gohunt.com who,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then they get a 30 day free trial. Yup. The behind the curtains kind of everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, if they go to Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls, they can get 15% off by using the promo code elktalk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we have the good folks at OnX.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who make like the most revolutionary products in the world. I mean.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Al Gore thinks he's important because he invented the internet. Yeah. Or so he says.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Eric Siegfried, who invented OnX, he makes Al Gore look like a complete blowhard down streamer. Which some listening would say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And so with that, if you go to on X maps.com and use promo code elk talk, elk talk, elk talk, we are getting good at this. They get what Corey's got in his hand there.


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[Assistant] Now that we paid the bills, I am so interested to hear Dirk tell me all these things about Cory as he tells us. I mean, we can't just pick on you, so the thread I want him to weave is...


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[Assistant] Massive bulls, and I regret that. Was that a function of, I just don't feel like I mentally have the tools to get one out of there if I shoot it? Right. Or just, you know what, I haven't re-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I went through this phase similar to that where I thought there's gotta be an easier place. You know, there's gotta be one just uphill from the road. Exactly. And I'd walk away from, I mean, I can't call very good, so I didn't have big, bold bugling down below me like you did. But, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I often wonder when people have that kind of, uhm, I'm just heck with it kind of feeling, is it because they just don't feel they're at that point where they have the skills to take care of it, to do whatever, or, because very seldom is it that they're just


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[Assistant] Because all three of us get to interact with a lot of other hunters, a lot of them ask questions, I would say, and I feel kind of stupid, Dirk, that I didn't have that on my top five because


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[Assistant] I, I gave up really easily and it was a combination of a lot of things that I thought there'd be an easier way. Right? Uh, but I really was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The idea of shooting an elk was, I was almost thankful it took me so long to kill one. Because mentally, just skill set wise, I was not prepared of what it would have taken to break one down and get it out. Right? And eat the horse.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know. I, I think if you get an outgout hole.


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[Assistant] Had that same spike of jealousy I had. I wish I lived in a place where I could go do that.


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[Assistant] Well, that's a really good first one. I think attitude, even at this point in my life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Having the right attitude that day is a big part of whether or not I'm going to be successful. If I get out of the tent and say I'm not that energetic, it needs to be easy today, I'm probably not going to find any elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, and I think there's a couple of reasons why at times I approach it as being timid and, and move towards aggressive versus how you guys do it is, one is just worried that, and like you said, I'm going to blow them out of here. And I'm like, I found out the last thing I want to do is blow them out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, then there's also the not necessarily knowing what to do, how to call a man, wha- wha- wha-


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[Assistant] What are they saying? What should I say? Because I'm not, you know, some great out caller. So I'm worried that I'm going to scare them off. So I'm kind of like,


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[Assistant] Well, maybe I'll get an opportunity here. Maybe if I just kind of sneak around the edges and, oh man, there he is at 60 yards. And so I almost become a spot in the stock guy at times and I screw it up every time. So you think by now I'd learn that you have nothing to lose, Randy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He has to watch Roseanne Barr reruns or something.


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[Assistant] I've, even in rifle season, I've kinda went back and over the 10 years of filming and however many years of elk hunting, I have journals of what day I shot the elk, all those things, had I seen it earlier in the hunt, and I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You think I would start out aggressive because of what my notes show is people will say, why do you guys always kill one on the last day of season?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, because we get more aggressive and we get desperate and ratchet up the aggression. We should have done that. We should have did that on the first day. We killed one or had a really close encounter. If we didn't kill it, it would have given us four or five more days to go find another hour to do the same thing.


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[Assistant] I would go back to the point when you made that the more I build my confidence and knowledge,


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[Assistant] Now that's interesting. Last year we were in New Mexico. It was near the end of the rut. It was right where that transition from peak rut to post rut. And the last day, Tracy Pettit was, she was the hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was bugling and this bull just kept moving off. I'm like, oh dang. And he'd make a bugle as he pushed his cows, but he was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably a four and a half year old bull, not like an old monster. And I made the weirdest whining cow call I've ever made in headline.


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[Assistant] Well, he got wound up. Well, he'll try that again. It sounds stupid. I hope that the camera isn't recording this because people are going to think it's like a dog got his tail flammed in the door or something.


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[Assistant] That guy came over the ridge, man, he was like, where is she?


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[Assistant] It was just a, hey, if that's what they want, I'll, I'll give it to them. And she shot that bowl at less than 70 yards. I mean, this was a rifle, huh? And, uh, so back to your point, I'm not the greatest caller, but if they tell me what they want, I'll, I'm, I'm happy, you know?


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[Assistant] I think that what it is is he didn't, he didn't pay attention in history class when I think it was MacArthur or Patton said that every war plan is only good until the first shot is fired. Oh yea. Kinda.


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[Assistant] I haven't, I haven't seen it. So we, no, it's one that we just recorded is that it won't be live for about another five or six weeks. When you were talking about this, giving yourself some options in the video, I say, all right, I've got general area A, general area B, general area C, and sometimes I'll have general area D and I camp somewhere nearby.


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[Assistant] That's, uh, I try to get there too, but I, I just, the time for me, it's the time it takes getting up that much earlier. Oh yeah. Well, I would say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's a lot of times where I got, I call it, I think this is kind of close to what one of each of ours where we had it like what stuck in a rut. Backup plans. Refusing to experiment, something like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think we've all had that experience where it just wasn't working, wasn't working. We kept trying the same thing for four days. Finally, we just said heck with it. And we went and did something that...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If our buddies saw it, they'd probably laugh at us and we'd kill the elk. And even though whatever we did that day may not have been the answer in all instances, as a general rule, the lesson it taught me is when you're stuck in a rut, go do something different. Whatever something different is, go do something different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I look at that country, I'm not tough enough to hunt there. It's horrible. If you guys told me if I went there I could shoot a 350 inch bowl every year, I still don't think I'd go there. It doesn't look like any fun to hunt there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Huh, have you guys found that if you blow an opportunity, that if you stay on them, you'll get another opportunity or is that sometimes you do, sometimes you don't?


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[Assistant] So, we've talked about give up too easy, aggressive versus passive, not willing to adapt, kinda maybe 3A was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, so on, on, uh, headlamp flashlight stuff, you guys carry an extra headlamp or just extra batteries? I carry a headlamp and a flashlight. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I said, you guys don't have enough love or money to get me to hunt Northern Idaho. You don't have to worry about me as any, not that I'm much competition anyhow, but you don't need to worry about me showing up and taking space at your trailhead. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I looked at Tyler Johnson, my camera guy, and Tyler smiled at me. He's like, there's no terrain in North America that's going to take us six hours to climb 1200 feet and go a mile and a quarter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you guys find that a lot of people you talk to don't quite understand what thermals are because they come from a flat country place? I think so. I mean, you guys grew up in a spot. I get a lot of emails of, tell me about these thermal things. And if they would have been sitting right here in this booth over the last two hours,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They would have felt when I first came up here and set this chair up, the wind was kinda going down this way. Just in the last two hours now, it's kinda going up.


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[Assistant] I know that's kind of elementary maybe to a lot of people, but if you didn't grow up with it, if you live in some flat area, it's like, oh, our prevailing wind is always out of the Northwest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So some of the questions that came up since yesterday's release of the podcast, one guy said, he sent me an email last night, he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My camp selection is like the most difficult thing for me to deal with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I emailed them and said, stay tuned. Yeah. Episode four. Yeah. But, uh, now I got distracted with talking about camp. Oh, the, the, one of the questions I got last night was, uh, how far in advance of your hunt will you go and scout?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I guess that brings the question of do you even spend time to go on sale?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, cause I, I get a lot of people like, yeah, I'm going out to Colorado this year. I'm thinking of going out in June or May. I'm like, well, you know, those elk are going to be in different places than you're probably going to be in May or when you're going to. So if you can stay home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then what you find in June. Real time data.


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[Assistant] I'm trying to figure out. I, I still, when I see that, I'll stand there for 20 minutes, just looking like- Which one?


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[Assistant] That's where I'm at with it. I've just resolved that, hey, there are certain places, especially where I get to hunt a lot in Montana, and it's like, alright.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just kinda like when elk are in a feed pattern, you'll look across, you'll say well all these drainages look the same, but there is something in this little drainage over here that they walk four miles and that's where they hang out to feed for that ten day period while something


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is there preferred food right there? And then you go in there and there's no elk when you go in hunting.


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[Assistant] What the heck, now they're four miles away in some little micro, what seems like a microscopic area, but they're selecting for certain things that to the human eye, I'm not smart enough to figure it out.


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[Assistant] If it works, I'll take credit for it. I'll take all the credit in the world if it works.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we were going to sit here and talk about, not just, we tried to get through our top five mistakes. Yea, we couldn't do that. It took us two and a half hours to get through just a few of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it would probably take two days to go through all of the mistakes I've made multiple times. Like you said, Dirk, learn from him. I'm like slow, man. I'm like so below average at everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I still am like, okay purple to purple, red to red. So I'm not, I'm not the smartest dude on the mountain for sure, but I try hard. That's my only redeeming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, while I give the Rocky Mountain Oak Foundation plug, you'd be thinking of the Sitka question. We're sitting in a spot right here that I bet you people don't even know it, but this was all this Madison Gallatin range in Southwest Montana was all checkerboard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And all of this stuff you see here was closed. You couldn't, all that stuff up there, you couldn't get to it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the Elk Foundation and a few other groups stepped in and it took three land trades to get it done. But in the process, what happened in the Gallatin 1, the Gallatin 2, and then up here in the, in the Taylor's Fork trade, it took,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now it's all open again to public hunting. But there's so many younger people who, some may have not even been born then, that's how old I am, uh, have no idea that the Elk Foundation was kind of the leader.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right here, sitting here, looking at it, I still remember it's like, man. Wasn't always accessible. No, it could have been a train wreck. Yep. Wow. And there's so many places I think on the Elk landscape where we might take for granted today that it, you know, oh wow, look, it's open. Well, there's groups like the Elk Foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Huge, I mean, and the number of elk that get shot, well, it was the Madison, Gallatin, and the Bridger ranges is where all the swapping took place. And it took a long time, it took three trades to get it done, but I can't even imagine how...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The elk hunting in this part of Montana would be nothing like it is from an access standpoint, without that. And uh, yeaah, had to give up a little bit over here, this Yellowstone Club property, and some people used to hunting that, and they, they're like, I'm mad that we ended up giving up my hunting hole.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. That's right. That's awesome. That's the Rocky Mountain Out Foundation, uh, part of the, of the podcast and we hope that y'all become members. So what's, what's the, what's the sick question of the week that you're gonna ask Dirk?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were looking at me like, why are you wearing that long sleeve zip tee merino? It's kind of like my security blanket, man. I wear it from September 1st to the end of the year. And a lot of people don't like merino because they've used a lower quality merino and it scratches and itches.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not the case with the sickest stuff. And then some people are like, well, that's not very durable. If you've seen the hundreds of days some of my Merino has on it and it's still flawless. And yeah, I understand that higher quality gear is an investment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want stuff that lasts for a long time and I want stuff that performs when I need it. And so, I wear, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Normally we for, for new people, new to the Muay Thai Bones, this is the most in-depth Muay Thai podcast in the universe, or as we say now, the multiverse. Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, uh, we take deep dives into kind of like sociological, uh, philosophical, sometimes historical, technical Muay Thai subjects. If you're not into the subject that we're, uhm, on now in about 30 minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you can just jump ahead to another topic and be usually something quite different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're watching this on YouTube, you can get the audio version as a supporter of the podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's over 120 hours of you training with legends and great crews of Thailand. We're like documenting the disappearing Muay Thai of Thailand. Uh, not just for you guys to study and


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[Assistant] The way it works is Sylvie's learning from them, so you get to learn from them as Sylvie learns from them. There's really nothing like it.


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[Assistant] And it's just incredible how much we've been able to accomplish with the help of patrons. So if you are watching this on YouTube and you want to become a patron, you get access to the library.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over 120 hours of documented. And these sessions you can watch them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three, four times. We have people telling us they've watched the session ten times. So right there, that's ten hours in one session.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's just so much because these men are so incredible. So anyways, not to make a commercial out of it, but just to let you guys know how the podcast works. Uhm, oh, let's make a commercial out of it. I'm wearing, uh, my Car Hot shirt. Uh, this is an OG version, I think, that we made several years ago. I wear my Car Hot shirts all the time. A lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you get a Karl Hot shirt, 100% of the earned profits go to him. And COVID is fucking smacking down gyms and legends and everybody who lives on the living fabric of Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so uhm, it's actually really really supportive. Like, immediately supportive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this is the Carhartt shirt. We've got, uh, got shorts by him. We have a shirt by Diesel, uh, about Diesel and I, a drawing of mine. And we have, uhm, a Yokumon shirt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, it gets distributed along with 10% of all the pledges to your patron. 10% gets distributed in the crew fund. So like Sylvie's apparel, stuff with her shirt, shirts with her face on it or hats like this. Love my Sylvie hat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, chemical X, uhm, so the new fight name, uhm, uhm, that all goes to the crew fund. So everything on that page, sorry to go on about this, is a non-profit to us, 100%. Matter of fact, it's more than 100%, but because any time something's bought


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so he's like, how much do I send? I, we always round up. So round up, round up, send more even than is like technically the case. So uhm, it feels good to wear something, support somebody and also send something forward in a great way. Right? Yes. So god, so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The podcast originally and still is, once COVID straightens up, was us just talking in the car, driving across the country. And it's like, so these are natural conversations we have. And then we're like, we should just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this subject is kinda like all over the place. Cause I was like, after we wrote this, after, after we were talking for like 40 minutes it seems, I immediately wrote notes and you should just see my notes. They're just phrases.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, here. This is what I wrote. Yeah, these are my notes. Jimmy Page's Cashmere. MP3 compression. Johann Sebastian Bach.


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[Assistant] The Moi of King Rama IX of Thailand. Living through plagues, historically. Spinoza, the philosopher. Cowboys and Indians. Horse-drawn carriages. Dieselnoi, only heard of back in the day.


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[Assistant] The 2001 monolith, I don't even actually know why I wrote that one. Walter Benjamin's Angel of History.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The music of creation and uh, tooth marks on fighters. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ah man. So as you can tell, this is a little bit aw-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We love watching documentaries, and we've seen some, uhm,


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[Assistant] Not only a great rock guitarist, historically great, one of the greatest ever, he always is like, yeah, but what I was really good at was producing the albums. He is like, I created a sound for Led Zeppelin that he kind of never got credit for in a weird way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What he talks about a lot is how he built up volume.


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[Assistant] Dimensionality? I don't know what's the word for it. In the tracks, as he...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Orchestrated it, but also tried to produce a sense that if you're listening to the music in a space, in a room, you would hear like the locations of things, and the spatial structure of the music was very important to him. And he basically complained that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything is now compressed to MP3 files and he's just like, and it's just like the music of Led Zeppelin is now gone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You've taken the music of, like, let's say early 70s, where all this effort was co- was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Put forth to construct a sound volume, which was the big rock volume.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you've compressed it, so now when a 15 year old listens to Led Zeppelin, they literally are not even listening to Led Zeppelin anymore. But not only that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People, once mp3 and compression comes along, people no longer compose the music for volume.


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[Assistant] The compression of Golden Age great fights.


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[Assistant] And then, now with the rise of entertainment Muay Thai in Thailand, three round fights, time is literally compressed.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, but when, so if you heard Led Zeppelin when, if you're around my age, and maybe even less Sylvia's age, but, we heard


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[Assistant] The more filled out version. So when you hear like an AM radio version of something or a very flattened out thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, you hear, you hear the cash, that's why I wrote down cashmere. You hear that cashmere line.


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[Assistant] Even if there's no bass in your little earbud, the bass comes in.


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[Assistant] There's a dimensionality that comes in.


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[Assistant] I don't know, I get this, I don't know this for a fact, but I get this feeling like in the uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Vast internet Muay Thai community where like people are always like Muay Thai today is not like it was in the old days and like complaining about this and so there is this dimension of, uh, loss that we're talking about but it's a subtler version of loss that's happening which is we cannot even


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Access the Golden Age fights anymore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We try to build out the volume of them, like rounds one and two aren't even in the fight videos, but we don't even have the references.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To reconstruct the fuller volume off of the mp3 that is happening. Like even in the YouTube versions, but then when you go to like three round


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] compression fights where they're not even fighting Muay Thai anymore. It's basically kickboxing with elbows.


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[Assistant] I just, I wanna trace out a little bit of this sense of loss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is where, uh, Johann Sebastian Bach comes in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a book on consciousness by philosopher Daniel Dennett, who's, uh, a philosopher of consciousness. I don't remember what book it is, and unfortunately I'm not going to be able to put it in the reading notes. But, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He made this point that Yohan Sabat, the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The work of Johann Sebastian Bach is actually filled with the quotational material of ecclesiastical music that everyone knew, because everyone went to church. Everyone heard the hymns of the day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I'm not even sure if it's sampling, but he is extracting out music from the culture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is then, that then, people who listen to Johann Sebastian Bach at the time,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he's saying today, when you listen to the Bach, you can't even hear the music.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He wrote those notes, but because you've lost the experiential qualities that surrounded those notes, you can't even build out the world that he's referencing. You can still be moved by it. You can still be moved by Karahat's shoulder shake or something like this. These are beautiful notes being played.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I'm listening to Bach as a contemporary listener and somebody in the past was listening to it, different parts of our brain would be firing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, it's not like note per neuron. There is an entire family of associations. And so, I guess part of this is really about how...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've already lost much more than we even realize that we've lost, what we've lost. It's not just that fighters of today no longer are capable of fighting the way Samart fought or Karahat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's also that, because they're composing other music for new mediums, like composing for mp3 playback or earbuds, right?


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[Assistant] When those fighters were fighting, there were references that surrounded them and everything that, uhm, are just gone.


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[Assistant] Only people who lived at that time could hear it, could see it. They can see it now in a YouTube clip, but we can't see it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, for me there's like an additional sense of loss that's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of what we do is not just complaining that things are being lost, but taking notes on what is lost, or threatened to be lost,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that we can make choices to save it to some degree. Or say we don't have the energy, means or times or funds or whatever to save it. But to me what's really sad is to lose things that are unnoted. Like you don't even realize you lost it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Instead, make decisions. What are you, it's like a lifeboat. What are you going to put in the lifeboat for the future?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or a time capsule. But it's like you don't want the time capsule empty.


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[Assistant] And so there was this feeling, I guess, when we were talking about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're smart. Otherwise there would be no fight of Diesel Noir.


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[Assistant] As a peak fighter in existence that is publicly known. So.


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[Assistant] Well how do you connect that up with what we're talking about, things being lost, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You get it, but you also were never sitting in those fucking church as a kid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just being washed over by these hymns. Like yeaah, you would be further along the historical context line. But also what Bach was doing was pulling from childhood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It'd be like Christmas carols or what, like things like Rudolph the redness, like pulling


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was like what you were formed of. So he's making this incredibly...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is something that I think that we talked about, that we mentioned, which is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Muay Thai, and we're calling this the Muay Thai of Rama IX, King Rama IX.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The era of King Rama IX was this vast era of the modernization of Muay Thai. He like oversaw the rise of Lumpini Stadium, was a huge patron of not only Muay Thai but also boxing at Lumpini Stadium and he


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically fashioned the, the era.


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[Assistant] Uh, not only golden age, but silver age and bronze age, Muay Thai. And then all the way through past the golden age, which you kind of widely regarded as like the decline somewhat in modern Muay Thai. And there's this feeling like we're just no longer in the era of Rama IX.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a completely different era history marches on, but there is this feeling like we have left that era. It's actually...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Having lost a fight, if my amateur, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she lost the fight and she didn't feel like she had lost it. And at the time, Thais were really, had a very hard time adjusting to international amateur rules. A lot of them were very counter to what they grew up with. Uh, the Muay Thai they knew. And she lost and she said something that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is one of the most impactful things for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of anything Nataya said about Muay Thai honestly, it was such a strange thing. It was just very simple. She was like, that is not the king's Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you have to understand the ties and the king and Muay Thai is a social bond.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Muay Thai was for the king of the king. The king supported it. I remember, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's Onoi, talking about his loss, when he lost to Wichinoi, and the prince was in attendance, not even the king. And Wichinoi, I think it was Wichinoi, not Kao Pong. I think it was Wichinoi. Was it Kao Pong? I think it was Kao Pong. Kao Pong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fact that he was there was the most important thing in his mind. He's like, that's how hard I was wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That I couldn't even stand for the prince. And that's the prince, not even the king.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a certain way what we're doing is we're talking about the Moi of Rama 9. And you actually, I consider...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You blessed to having fought in the era of Ramanaan. You fought on actually his king's birthday after his death with Diesel Noy and Karahat in the corner for the WMC title way up in weight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like that was a very powerful, memorable fight for me. Even though you were overmatched by size.


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[Assistant] But that was a turning point fight, and it feels like there was a passing of error. So we don't want to just be like, nostalgic people being like, Muay Thai isn't like how it used to be. But it's like, let's just sketch out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's put a pause on all the like pad work porn and the knockout highlights and just like sketch out that there's actually more being lost than we even realize. Like there's fabrics of time being unwoven. I'm gonna stop this and start this again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So moving along this idea of the ecclesiastical music of Bach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Karahat came out of Concane as this incredible femur


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Artisan, like, he developed into one. He was in the line of Pupat Noi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who was a very femur fighter. And then after Karahat, Samrock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, like, femur but deadly or something, I don't know. And it's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When these concave fighters are fighting in the ring, like Bach, they're weaving in the context of their region.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when you're watching this, you're not just watching a fighter somewhere, you're watching a fighter from a region that has a history and a context. The Karat fighters were like powerful stand-in smashers, largely, right? Heavy-handed, moimot sometimes, but strong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even when you're, so when you're watching these fighters now, you don't even have the context of the family of Moi that they're springing from.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we have to explain that. Now, mega gyms like, uhm, Pet Yindie, P.K.Sanchai, Jit Mung Nong, they basically gobble up the talent that's brewing in the provinces, like good,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, young bucks that are beating everybody locally.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These boys are pulled into a mega gym, and there is no...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Style of the gym, like because they have so many fighters. I think PK has 40 or did Jitmunong have 40? There's so many fighters and there could be stylistic elements that are like, populating in, but, uh, Rotong is not like Panpayak. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So previously gyms, like in the golden age, would also have a style. They might not be from the region, but like Hop Along was a great knee fighting gym. Uhm, Jockey Gym was just like femur crazy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So not only was there a regional style from which fighters came and represented, but then there was also gym styles. Now you have...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the point, the point isn't just like Walmart has crushed all the mama pop stores, which it has, but when you're watching these fights, we no longer have the ecclesiastical music of Bach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We can't even access the associations of conch cane that made karahat even more delicious to watch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, which is why entertainment Muay Thai now is very popular because it can be clicked through and clicked into.