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[Assistant] Sometimes those straight liners, you know, they can't weave and do all that. He can.


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[Assistant] Jump cut, make you miss or be upright and kinda just weave through traffic. Am I explaining that the right way? Right? Where you just...


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[Assistant] He can kind of lean and be loose as he's kind of running through a straight line but varying off of it a little bit. Right. Without breaking down or making a sharp cut, right? He can kind of like, hey, I'm off the guard. Hey, there's a receiver downfield. He just keeps running. He just kind of weaves and bobs. That's what I'm trying to say by that, right?


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[Assistant] So, he is really good. Like I said, the jump cutting is insane. I mean, it's as good as anybody in this draft as far as that's department. And then, you know...


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[Assistant] Um, like the power for his size, the low center of gravity. I mean, it's another thing that just jumps out to you.


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[Assistant] When you go, how many times does he run up into a hole and there's not really anything there? And shit, he pushes it forward for another three or four yards. So, this is not just some space, break your ankles, highlight type runner here. There's a little meat and potatoes to this guy. Runs through a ton of arm tackles.


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[Assistant] You know, and that's where his quickness comes in too. He didn't always have great blocking up there, so he'd make people miss behind the line of scrimmage, they'd have an arm around him, he'd pull away, turn around the corner, and all of a sudden it's a 20 yard gain. I mean, he's got just...


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[Assistant] He's a really impressive football player and see this is why it's guys like this that make the whole market go down because we're talking about the 4's running back and you hear how awesome I'm talking about him. He's just starting in the running back and you know he's probably not going to go in the top 50 pick


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[Assistant] He's on the, he's on the right thought there. I'm with you there. You know, hey, he's gotta be on the right team and we know that.


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[Assistant] Right? Or he's only a pass catching back or whatever like that. Uh, no, this is more to that. And, and then, you know, like I told you, the acceleration, I thought it was as good as anybody in the draft, not named Bijon Robinson or Gibbs. Right? And obviously, Rashaun Johnson's in that.


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[Assistant] You know, my man Miles Murphy, one of the top Dean Liman. Yeah, do you think this factored into your ranking? Well, the guy from Clemson.


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[Assistant] Who's your best, yeah, who's the best player you've played against this year? Whatever. He went, hmmm, hmmm. He went, uh, you know, Sean Tucker. And I was like, huh? I wanted to be like, who? And he said Syracuse. I was like, oh yea, that little running back from Syracuse. I saw him this year. You know? But yea.


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[Assistant] You know, I wrote that about halfway down my notes, so it wasn't biased to me, but as the film was confirming it, I was sitting there going, hey, now I know what this-


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[Assistant] That guy, Miles Murphy, said this guy is so damn good. Well, he should know, right? He should know. He got a first-hand look at the damn guy, right? Uhm, but he's natural in the pass game, right? So, there's nothing like that. We talked about Michael Carter earlier from North Carolina. I thought he's very similar to that, except he's stronger than Michael Carter. There's more of a power element with this kid.


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[Assistant] So, you know, maybe not quite as quick as Michael Carter was, but I think stronger. So maybe a blend of Javante Williams in there is what I'm talking about. We finally get the one. We finally got there.


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[Assistant] He was the guy I thought about making that comparison to. I didn't think anybody on the podcast would know who that is. Does anybody, I would love to be able to ask that out there. Do you know who Joe Morris is? In the comments right now, yes or no. You just have to say.


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[Assistant] Right? Joe Moore is a tall little guy. I mean, he was muscle hamster. Unbelievable legs. Right? And that's what he was. He could kinda make you miss, but man, his acceleration and getting through the hole, and he was like this guy.


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[Assistant] Probably 5'7", 210 pounds, 205, could squat like 600 pounds, right? One of those type of guys, but there's your little Syracuse history lesson. I knew that, I wrote in the comments that I knew that.


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[Assistant] There's receivers we watched in the draft where I go, okay, this guy, yeah, there's drops. Not all drops are created equal though. You know, like we said, there's the drops where like, hey, the ball's coming right at his face and the guy drops it. And you're like, how the


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[Assistant] You dropped that one. Or there's like, hey, you know, the ball's coming out of his face, but the guy's like turned cause he's worried about the defender and he's trying to like,


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[Assistant] Turn and make a move as he's catching it right? There's differences there.


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[Assistant] I didn't come away looking like, oh, this guy really fights it. There's a few that I saw where yeah, he's, he's, he's the best player on their team. He wants to make it happen. So he's going, I'm about to catch a screen and if I can make this guy miss, I'm going to run for a big play.


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[Assistant] You know, so he has a few of those. He has a few in the flat where he drops, where ball will be high and then we can adjust. But I don't think this is going to be an issue for him. There's still plenty of others where you just see natural and you go, okay, he's got no problem. He didn't fight that at all. And it seemed like it was nothing for him.


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[Assistant] Seriously, damn, I'm kissing your ass too much here.


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[Assistant] You know, I almost let some of the things I talked about, what I want to correct myself in and be better at and all that kind of crap. And I just went, wait, wait, who's the guy that I liked the best? Right. And it's not just highlights or, oh gosh, he's run for 7,000 yards and that's chase Brown from Illinois. I just.


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[Assistant] You know, he was one of the earlier running backs I watched in the process.


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[Assistant] Smaller guy, but rocked up, alright. It's like a different look, even though his measurables are very similar to Sean Tucker, it's a different looking guy. Uhm, where Tucker's was more lower body based, with thick legs and that. This guy's a little more proportionate, and like, you could see like,


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[Assistant] The shredded rocked-up-ness on his arms and everything, you know, just in his uniform, right? So if I'm trying to paint that picture, I hope that's the right way there. Uhm, but he is a little more...


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[Assistant] This is all about violence and Twitch.


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[Assistant] There's not gonna be a ton of ankle break and it's hit the whole a million miles per hour. I gotta make a right hand turn and I'm going to do it 900 miles per hour. I'm not going to break down or break your ankles or anything.


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[Assistant] That's what this guy is, right? So, acceleration's really good. Top end speed's not as good as this 4-4-3 combine speed would say.


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[Assistant] But man, as an all-around player, there's nothing the guy can't do. He is good in the pass game. He's more of a slasher than a jump cutter, but still can do that. And he has the type of speed to bounce it around the edge and get a big one too. I'm not saying it's Gib's speed, but it's big time speed where he can certainly rip off


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[Assistant] They really do. Most physical guy in the draft, maybe. And this guy, for a five-nine running back, I mean, he's physical. You know, again, he's a little bit of a, you know, like I said, it's a slasher, it's a...


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[Assistant] When he wants to make a cut, he does it with his feet. It's not wiggle and like that, you know what I'm saying? He's gonna, wait, I'm gonna break my feet down, I'm gonna pitter patter and I'm gonna cut this way really, but he can do it really quick and really fast. And of course his ability to accelerate is close to those top guys we've talked about. It's not quite there, but man, he is tough as hell.


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[Assistant] He is not afraid to lower his head on anybody and he carried the workload to where here's a guy to our earlier question


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[Assistant] Where you go, hey, 5'9", looks like he has to lift weights to be 2'09". This is where you go, uh, I worry about, you know, the thought crossed my mind to our earlier question of, there's a lot of carries for a guy that size and, you know, I hope it doesn't wear his ass out, you know, two or three years from now.


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[Assistant] Again, probably a third rounder we're talking about here. Somewhere like that.


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[Assistant] I wouldn't be mad if he went early third or somewhere. And the guy he kind of reminded me of that I wrote was Tony Pollard.


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[Assistant] You know, I thought he was actually more explosive than Tony Pollard was coming out. Right? Maybe not as smooth all around athlete. I mean, Pollard...


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[Assistant] Could run routes like a receiver. This guy's a little more, you know, jittery. And like I said, it's all a little straight, more straight Linus and cut this way, cut that way. Right. It's not like just like flowing and oh, I can just weave through stuff like that. That's not what he is. Um, but man, it's, it's who he reminded me of.


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[Assistant] I think this guy is, you know, he's gonna, he's gonna cut out a, a, a spot on somebody's team next year and somebody's gonna make him a part of their offense and make sure he touches the ball a few times.


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[Assistant] I feel like the only thing that's the Bichon Robinson Gibbs thing is really just the size thing, right? It's like 16 pounds and that's the only difference in a lot of ways.


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[Assistant] I think they'd be very close. I mean, their movements to me are very similar and special that way. I mean, you watch the highlights enough. You see enough football. You certainly were impressed with the way he moved, right? Compared to B. John Robinson.


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[Assistant] Like that, when you look at him in his uniform, he looks like he's kind of like a...


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[Assistant] You know, I don't want to say smaller, but you don't look at him as being a bell cow type guy. 5'11, 215. He didn't run anything at the Combine, right? You know, and he's...


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[Assistant] Like you said, he's slippery. Right? It's a lot of...


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[Assistant] Like, unreal contact balance and nice runs through the tackles where you just go, you know.


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[Assistant] His hips are good. He can slash or juke like you hear me talk about. But the thing that just you start to realize is how many times he gets hit in the hip at the line of scrimmage and then gets five more yards or somebody hits him and he bounce off of it and then he gets hits again and he bounces off that for a few more yards. So that's where I was really impressed. That's where he


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[Assistant] Reminded me a lot of Alvin Kamara in that department. See, this is, Alvin Kamara was a lot like this, right? Maybe not quite, Alvin Kamara might have been a little faster, better feet, but had this element, and I know we talked about this earlier in the pod, where


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[Assistant] The contact balance is so good that it made me think about maybe making him number five in the, you know, there's just so much of that. And then the other thing that goes is, you know, you, you watched, he doesn't look like he's real fast. He kind of was a flat foot runner. I think people need to peep that a little bit. Flat foot runner who doesn't pick up his feet.


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[Assistant] And this is what this kid does. And of course, what does that do? It allows your feet to be close to the ground all the time, so that as soon as you get hit, your feet are on the ground, and you kind of absorb that hit a little bit better, and keep your balance. That's where I thought he was really, really impressive. And then, I thought, you know,


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[Assistant] He feels like he's missing a gear when you first watch him. And there are a few runs where you go, ah, I wish he wouldn't be so patient and you just go, right? But damn, I mean, he has some runs and, I mean, not some, plenty of runs where you go,


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[Assistant] It doesn't look like he's moving that fast, but nobody's catching him, and some of these guys are fast, and I saw their combine times, and they're still not catching him.


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[Assistant] So, that's where he's a little deceiving, you know. Uh, it's not the sexiest you've seen, but with that physicality, the size and the contact balance, you know, it certainly makes you think it's going to translate to the NFL.


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[Assistant] One, I mean, hey, he's, he's a lot to like, right? He's six foot, he's two fourteen. I thought he was bigger than that. I'm not gonna lie. When I watch UCLA on TV this year a little bit.


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[Assistant] And saw him. I thought there was a little bit more of a physicality power element, uh, that I was, you know, maybe a little bit disappointed in when I watched, you know, on film a little bit. Uhm, you know, I, there's too many runs where I, there just should be more.


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[Assistant] Where I just go, ooh, there should be more here. You know, whether he runs somebody over and should get more, or the whole, or wait, there's only one guy here and we can't just let him bring you down. I think that's what bothered me more than everything.


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[Assistant] Or anything. He's, he's good in all areas. There's not like anything that you just look at and go, oh wow, it's another problem here.


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[Assistant] He is a little bit of a slasher like we talk about, stick your foot in the ground type of runner.


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[Assistant] You know, there's no jump cuts or wiggle or anything like that. He's never gonna like make people miss, break their ankle or be in the A gap over here and it closes up and then jump to the left and reaccelerate. That's not what he is. You know, he's a slasher. He just wants to kind of be a straight and liner that way.


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[Assistant] You know, he's got the quick feet, the pitter patter that I talk about, right? You know, his leg drive on contact is very good. It is. He moves the pile a lot.


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[Assistant] Uh, I talked about the pass game a little bit, and I think he can be a very good route runner. He is, he's sudden, and he's a no-nonsense style of runner. But because of that, there's, there was, you know, bigger plays to be had. And I think that's, you know, ultimately what made me leave him out of the top five.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and just the power just didn't blow me away, I guess, like I thought it was for his size. I thought, man, there's other guys I've seen here, we've talked about already, where I go...


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[Assistant] Yeah, maybe they're five pounds less than you or whatever, but their power is every bit as good, if not better, let alone they're faster and more explosive. He is very good. I certainly should see him, you know, starting as a running back in the NFL. I'm not, I don't think that's crazy at all, but I just didn't think he was in the top five combo.


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[Assistant] It's not quite that speed, no, but it's still damn damn good, right? It's a, it's a smaller type of running back here. I think he's a guy that, you know, 5'8 and a half, 188, right? He's more of your pass catching tight end. I don't know if he's, or tight end, excuse me, running back.


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[Assistant] You know, Austin Eckler-ish, right? Dion Lewis, remember him? Michael Carter, who we've talked about a few times today. I think it's more along those lines, but really not, probably not even as strong as Michael Carter. Uhm, but for a smaller guy,


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[Assistant] He is very comfortable between the tackles. So don't think this is a guy that's like, oh, we only got to be on the edge and he's always got to just run fast. No, he's, he's not bad as far as his ability to kind of, you know, weave through traffic inside and because, you know,


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[Assistant] He's smaller or whatever else, he does a pretty good job of never letting anybody square him up and crush him, right? So he's always kind of gets on the edge of people. But, you know, I, I, I know he ran 432, but I wrote, I wouldn't have guessed he ran 432 on film.


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[Assistant] And, you know, he's quick and his acceleration is good, but it's not wow quick or wow acceleration. It certainly wasn't to me on film in the same class as the other running backs we talked about, you know, early on in the pod, on the pod. He can jump cut his, his, his, you know, vision's pretty good, great body control.


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[Assistant] You know, I, I just thought, you know, ultimately the size and he's not as sudden as explosive as his combine numbers would indicate. He does have good hands.


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[Assistant] You know, uh, and the more I watched, the more I did like him. Uhm, but, but I think ultimately more, he's gonna be more of a third down, space type running back, uh, along the lines of the guys that I mentioned already.


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[Assistant] Chase Brown, Kendri Miller, and Izzy as they call them. Izzy.


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[Assistant] They were really the ones that were in the top 5 running for me, or that spot for number 5.


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[Assistant] Man, maybe only Jameer Gibbs had. That's what we talked about. When you talk about breaking out of the pack, and like, you talked about how Bijan Robinson, you thought, oh, I wish he was just a, maybe a little faster top end speed, right? Same here with me, right? Celebration of this guy.


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[Assistant] He has a gear that, I didn't, I don't think anybody has this guy's gear once he breaks out in the open. Now his acceleration is not that of the other guys. Nor is his, you know, just


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[Assistant] Willingness to just smash it in their physicality the same way. He's not gonna just do that.


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[Assistant] He's kinda gonna wait and pick his spot, and then if he sees his spot, he's gonna go, and when he turns it on, I mean, he can run by anybody for 80 yard touchdowns. He has an incredible body, but I do wish there was a little bit more of a, um, physicality element to his game, a little more of a recklessness to push the pile or just smash it in there.


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[Assistant] Listen, I understand that Pacheco, he looks like Pacheco in his uniform. Does he? That's really what it looks like.


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[Assistant] But the, the, the thing is, he's just not, Pacheco is like, he's scary when he's running at you. This guy doesn't want to do that. He doesn't really run people over or break tacos like that. He wants to maybe gear down and try to bounce off you so then he can turn it back on and outrun you with his straight speed.


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[Assistant] He is a, he is a true slasher that way. You know, he's a guy that we just talked about in Chase Brown. It's gonna chop his feet and then redirect. Not break your ankles that way. Uhm, vision's good. Let me just see here.


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[Assistant] You know, like I said, the long speed is really what separates them or makes them special. But I think I've said it all for the most part. It's the physicality, it's the breaking tackles that I wish there was a little bit more. He's a straight liner, you know.


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[Assistant] And, and I just wish there was a little bit more of an explosive element when it comes to him hitting the hole.


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[Assistant] Built like a Pacheco, but doesn't run like him. You know, and I even wrote Melvin Gordon, right? As far as like the body type.


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[Assistant] Alright, but it's not Melvin Gordon coming out either. I mean, Melvin Gordon was a first round draft choice for a reason. He had a little bit of both. But when they break out in the open and they take off, they look the same. I guess that's what I was trying to say there. Sure.


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[Assistant] I like Eric Gray a lot. Eric Gray is, he's made for the NFL. There's, there's really nothing he can't do on the football field. Okay, you know, maybe that power, physicality element was the only thing that, and just like pure speed is why he doesn't get in the top five conversation.


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[Assistant] Uhm, smaller running back, right? Who's compact, a little bit like your Sean Tucker, but not quite that thick on the bottom there, right?


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[Assistant] He's, he's, he's doesn't have one weakness to his game. I wrote, he's really smooth. I wrote Mr. Well Rounded. He can jump cut at a high level. He can also slash.


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[Assistant] He's slippery in space, makes people miss in the hole at the second level, a ton. I wish there was more raw speed, a little bit better, uh, a little bit better acceleration. He does run his, run hard, he lowers his shoulder when it is appropriate.


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[Assistant] You know, uhm, there's another smaller running back that I wrote that bounces off a lot of damn tackles, he's got an incredible spin move, and he's a natural in the spin game, in the pass game, excuse me.


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[Assistant] Straight speed was definitely the biggest negative. You know, I wrote not slow, but he looks like he runs high four fives, maybe low four sixes. You know, definitely some runs where you go, he's gonna get 50 yards, and then he gets 15, right? So that was kind of the reason why he's not. But man, everything else...


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[Assistant] He's got a good feel for the game, like I said, he's got great vision, he can break tackles, he can break your ankle, he can slash a little, and he looks like he can really catch the ball out of the backfield. It's just that pure...


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[Assistant] Physicality, explosive element that's missing that's, doesn't put him in the top of the list.


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[Assistant] You know, but I would say this guy's a mid-round pick. And to our last question, this could be a guy that comes out of nowhere. Where you go, nobody talked about this guy. He was drafted in the fifth round, the sixth round, something like that. He's starting on our team and he's got a thousand yards rushing and 700 yards receiving. Right? This could be that kind of guy.


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[Assistant] Two best buddies that anybody could have. His best buddy or his burner account, one or the other. I asked you before the show, I mean, I still don't understand why there's not more DJ Turner love. I don't get it. I don't know, we'll see. I just, I feel like he's gonna be wanting to prove me right when all's said and done.


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[Assistant] Again, I don't know how you could look at him and Joey Porter and go, Oh, Joey Porter. Yeah, I trust him to cover that receiver better than DJ Turner. I just, how? How could you think that? How could you watch film of those two guys and go, wait, I want that one. What? That's where I just, I don't get it.


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[Assistant] Well, this is where you can't look at it. This is where it goes back again to the context of the situation, right? Didn't play a lot of the good offenses or great quarterbacks of the Big Ten, right? Got lucky that he didn't have to play any of the big-time receivers. And this is where, again,


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[Assistant] You gotta watch games. You know where I told you I've made mistakes of watching clips, or third down, or coverage, or whatever else. Gotta watch the games. Cause the games are gonna eventually start to show you plays where you go, okay, wait, the ball wasn't thrown his way, but this guy did beat him deep. He just got f***ing lucky, cause,


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[Assistant] The team said, hey, we got two go routes, don't throw a Devon Weatherspoon, throw at the other guy, right?


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[Assistant] Here's the difference too, and this is a great question, right? And here was one of my little bit of my splitting, where I, you heard me say it last week, DJ Turner and pure coverage and his mechanics and some of these things he does, I mean he was perfection, right? Witherspoon tries to squash everything. And within that, that's what I was trying to,


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[Assistant] He can be a little choppy in his mechanics, right? I think I tried to explain that last week. And he can be a little bit like playing off coverage, 8, 10 yards off and be like, he'll just sit there, like hopping his feet, basically gambling. Like you're going to throw an out route or something underneath so I can break.


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[Assistant] But, within that, when people go vertical on them or run a go route or maybe a deep out route or a comeback, he's not in the position to turn and run, right? Devon, I mean our man, I don't know why I keep wanting to say Devon Bush, DJ Turner, he never


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[Assistant] Witherspoon will probably get burned a few times in the NFL. Hopefully it happens during training camp before he gets out in the real action and he has it on TV. But that'll be a come to moment. Cause he'll, I want to take this away and press my coaches and you start to realize, oh, I can't do this all the time. Right? And so it's not a physical question.


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[Assistant] And that's to me the difference here. If there was a physical question where I went, ooh man, he really has a hard time turning and running. No, he's not as good as Turner in that department, but...


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[Assistant] This is more of just approach and mechanics than anything else. It's not like, oh, there's a physical question I have about his ability here. This is a different thing.


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[Assistant] Let me just see. Alright, so here he is here. The one up top, was he up top? Let's see.


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[Assistant] Alright. Oh, alright, so yeaah, let's go back again. Let's go back. But see there, that's what I'm talking about. That was the play I was talking about. Like see, he's too, you gotta, you gotta turn your body at some point. He's squared up like the guy's gonna run someone, here he is at the bottom of the screen, right? The guy runs across her. Oh no, he didn't run across her. It's the same type of thing we just talked about.


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[Assistant] See, he's too square footed waiting for the break. You can't. You gotta turn your hips at some point. That's the big problem. I mean, that wasn't bad. I have no problem with that. Right? Here, here's another one. But yea, it's just a little too aggressive. At some point, you gotta back pedal and get your hips ready to turn.


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[Assistant] So he took those chances, and more times than not have paid off. Here was the first one we missed. See the crossing route? He's going to cross the field on top. But even there, you know what he tried to do? He tried to come underneath it, and take away the slant route, and the guy was running a deep cross route, so then he's, oh shit, I'm behind him, right?


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[Assistant] So, again, they're not physical questions. This is more about approach and mechanics. And that's why I thought it was a little...


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[Assistant] Sure. Tighter with him and DJ Turner than people want to give it credit for.


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[Assistant] No, but he makes, well yeaah, I am standing by it, but he makes a very, it's not the vertical speed, it's how to, how does he, how does he handle the vertical attack? That's what he's gotta change. His vertical speed's plenty good, Vish, that's what I think at least.


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[Assistant] Alright, alright, I will believe you, Dr. Casper. Yeah, he's agreeing with you. I'm not gonna listen to-


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[Assistant] Yes, and again, there's things to like about him. He's 6'1", 166, he ran 435. He has a 1-4-8 split. You know me, I love fast! I mean, gosh, I'm a **** for fast corners, right? But...


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[Assistant] It's all about, it's so straight-lining. I mean, if anybody makes any moves...


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[Assistant] It's less than. So that's why I couldn't put him in my top five. I do believe we've named him in some of our honorable mentions. He's the next group down of guys, right?


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[Assistant] I do, he is tough as hell for 166, right? Only thing I just, the negatives are all side to side change of directions. Way too many steps in and out of transition, right? Doesn't have really great hips that way, so anything straight away is great.


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[Assistant] You know, but anything other than that is below average. So, you know, that's where I kind of thought he was more of a second rounder type of guy. I know there's going to be guys, some of those taller, fast, straight line guys, DJ Charks of the world. He's going to be a great matchup for him, that kind of guy, right? You know, but damn.


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[Assistant] The first time he sees Jamar chase, I would be scared to death of it and go, uh oh, this is gonna be trouble, he's gonna spin him around like a wheel.


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[Assistant] Uhm, so that's where I worry about him a little bit, but good question by our man Cephal Bane, and that is it. Are we sure? Are done. We're done. Ahmed and his yellow pants are done here. Okay, what color are you gonna wear next week? This Wednesday? I don't know. No, I'm not bad. So I am doing Premier League.


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[Assistant] He will be. You're right. You're right. It'll be, it'll be good. Connor's awesome. He's been knee deep in this stuff for a long time. Yes. And, uh, you can go do your other jobs for a little bit. Exactly. And then we'll see you Monday. You'll be back Monday, right? I'll be back Monday.


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[Assistant] Alright everybody, hope you enjoyed. Ahmed will be back next Monday. He's leaving us Wednesday, but it will be me and Connor Rogers going over the tight ends, the position rank there. It will continue. Continue to subscribe, rate, review, send your questions. Love the questions today, really. We'll continue to nitpick in this win. And again, anything, any pyre you got a question about, whatever, roll it this way.


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[Assistant] I'm not saying I'm right, you know that, I do my work, I do my best, and we can have some good conversations about this. Everybody be good, enjoy the next few days, enjoy the national championship game on Monday night, go UConn Huskies, okay, peace out homies, clap it up.


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[Assistant] Yo, yo, yo, thanks for watching homies. It's the off season, but you know there's no off season for us here at Unbuttoned.


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[Assistant] Me, Ahmed Fareed, we're going to hit all the stories. So hit subscribe for us, okay? We got a ton coming up. My draft prospect rankings, my Sims top 40 quarterback countdown, and videos of me and NFL QBs playing catch and talking about their development and mechanics. Again.


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[Assistant] Thanks for watching. Remember to subscribe. Peace out homies. See you soon.


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[Assistant] You know, I throw a few nice little spirals and rockets at his face and he's catching them and, damn you, you throw the ball pretty good, Simms. You know, I go, I did play quarterback in the NFL, you know that? He's like, what?


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[Assistant] And that was yes, a little story about the great Rob Gronkowski and him not realizing that one, I played quarterback in the NFL to that. My dad was Phil Sims. He was not aware of that until many, many days into me knowing him.


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[Assistant] My wife's 100% Sicilian. My kids, of course, have their blood, right? They have a definite darker shade or a skin than I do, so I'm like,


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[Assistant] Mr. Wait, how do I look guys? I got 50 on and it's been an hour. Do I need to re-put it, re-apply it again? And then there's my kids, you know, the Italian stallions, they're out there like three hours in a row. They got no sunscreen on yet.


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[Assistant] And I'm like, wow. And then I just like, like the second or third day, I kept saying, I'm like, I'm so proud that these are my kids. Look at this. They're tan. They don't need like sunscreen every 30 minutes. Like I do. I can't believe this. So I got to chuckle out of that.


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[Assistant] We're back, it never ends, baby. You're about to get on a plane once again. Getting on a plane this afternoon, going to Indy, Combine, I mean to me this is like the official kickoff week of the 2023 NFL season now.


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[Assistant] Officially transitioned away from Super Bowl champs chiefs 2022 season. Now we restart the new league year.


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[Assistant] And to me, this is kind of the kickoff of it, the week at Indy, seeing the coaches, GMs, all the new players that are going to be in our league. It is cool. And I'm, I'm always excited to go there. I love seeing some of the guys. I love catching up with some old friends, coaches, front office people.


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[Assistant] Uh, that's the best thing about the NFL Combine.


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[Assistant] We're gonna do Tuesday, Wednesday, we're gonna be there pretty much throughout the day on Pro Football Talk. Thursday, we'll be back here in the studio on as a normal show, but yeaah, the way things are scheduled, I think really, you know,


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[Assistant] Not ways of thinking, but just because the coaches aren't there doesn't mean the combine isn't still extremely valuable or important to the organization, right? What happens right now and where it's tough for the coaches in the process of the way the NFL schedule is laid out, think about what they're doing right now.


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[Assistant] You know, one, the new league year hasn't really officially started, right? Two, you're


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[Assistant] The Super Bowl is just over. You're evaluating your own team right now.


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[Assistant] You're evaluating your own free agents who are about to be free. Wait, do we want to keep them? What's the money there? Blah, blah, blah. Evaluating the rest of the guys on the roster. Anybody we want to cut? Where do we get them to improve the team? Right? Let alone now there's free agents out there that, oh wait, we'd like to start looking at them to fill in these spots that we think are, you know, necessary in certain areas. And so their hands are full in that.


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[Assistant] The combine has great value, but not to them that they have to be there in person for it, right? They can lean on their GM, their front office people to


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[Assistant] You know, hey, we talked to this guy, he was a little concerning.


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[Assistant] Hey, we, we met this guy in person. Oh man, he's way different than you think. Right. So there's, there's that value. And of course the value still doesn't matter that they're not there to watch the workout on row 74 from the stadium anyways. Right. So now.


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[Assistant] You know, not only would they be missing out on evaluations of their team and their free agency,


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[Assistant] You know, all these things are filmed and they're going to get to watch it. And as far as the meeting, if they really like the guy, they'll bring him in for a visit into their facility at some point. So the combine is still the most valuable tool.


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[Assistant] There's not enough hands on work that can get done in that week. I think a lot of the coaches realized McVeigh, Shanahan, who didn't go last year, they went, wait, I had this plan of all this work I wanted to do during the day when some of the combine activities weren't going on.


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[Assistant] Even with those, you know, guys who are not there, you're, you know. Scouts will be there, GMs will be there. Well, and there's still so many things. First of all, to have everybody in the same place for the medical evaluation, that's the best thing about it. And then again, the drills are still, it's not foolproof, but there's still great things you can take away from every exercise


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[Assistant] And you know, there's certain things that translate to the field as far as football or things that they're not good at one of these drills that translate and you go, that's a concern for me. Right? So there's plenty of that. A hundred percent. That's where the value of the combine really shows.


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[Assistant] Well, and they have so much time before that. Like Coal Strange? Why'd we look at Coal Strange? Right. It's the end of April before that. You know, so you know how coaches are. They're process. Process right now.


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[Assistant] The thing that's, you know, on the on deck circle is free agency. So that's what they're worried about. And they gotta worry about that first and then they try to fill in from the, you know, the rest of the roster and needs throughout the draft.


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[Assistant] That's another conversation for another day, whether they should have free agency, you know, after the draft. We've talked about that before. Yea, we have talked about it before, but, uh, we got a good one today here on the pod.


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[Assistant] Special teams, I leaned on Pete for sure. Good, as you should. Yes, I did. So we have that. That was the one area I leaned on.


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[Assistant] You know, anybody who'd do this thing was Pete with my special teams. He definitely laid out some stats and some things for me on some of the punt returners and gunners to where then I could, you know, make the decision off that. But he certainly helped me in a big way there. Peter, Peter, Peter.


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[Assistant] I mean, I guess we can just talk about it. You know, we know. Yes, I went with Patrick Mahomes as my first team quarterback. I went with Josh Allen as my second team quarterback. I understand that, you know, there's certainly some debate over the second team one there, right? I mean, Joe Burrow.


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[Assistant] Jalen Hurts, obviously the guy who won second team all pro, uh, quarterback. Uh, I, I get all of that, but you know, it's again for me.


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[Assistant] And, and is Josh Allen, you talk about value of the t- value to a team?


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[Assistant] And what they do, I think that's something we tried to emphasize to people all year long. I think people realized that as the year went on, they started to go, wait, he's really the only thing they got that's real special on that offense. We know Diggs is in that combo a little bit, but as out of the superstar quarterbacks in the league right now, I think Josh Allen has got the least amount of talent around him.


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[Assistant] And I think he dictates the way they play as a football team just through his talent. So that's where I gave him the edge as my second team quarterback, but I don't think the first team quarterback's a surprise by any stretch of the imagination.


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[Assistant] I mean, you went into the year with Josh Allen as your number one quarterback. He won't be this year. I mean, it just inklings into that. I mean, Mahomes is going to be one going in the next year. I mean, we always knew Mahomes. We said this many times in totality.


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[Assistant] Mahomes, yes, his career is better than anybody in the league right now, you know. The last two seasons, as far as not this past one, 2022, but 2020 and 2021.


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[Assistant] I don't, I don't think it was crazy to say Josh Allen had better years than Patrick Mahomes in those two seasons, right? So, hey, this year, Mahomes is one. What will come down to me, which is going to be interesting this year, is Josh Allen, too. You know, because Burrow, to me, will be in that conversation this year.


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[Assistant] Burrow, and that's where, you know, film and getting into some of my nuanced stuff and watching stuff that way when it comes time to do the quarterback rankings, we'll see. But, uh, I do think that should be an interesting part of it.


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[Assistant] Right, right. Oh, I got a lot of flack, you know, from those, uh, my three favorite idiots over at WEI who, cause they, you know, worst take of the year, Justin Herbert better than Tom Brady. Are they kidding me? Like, get out of here.


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[Assistant] So that's quarterback, but I don't think it's anything shocking there. Not shocking. At least if you know me. Running back, the guy that you give it to would have been shocking in the beginning of the season. Yea, right. But it's, I mean, I think clearly the best running back in the game last year was Josh Jacobs. Josh Jacobs is just, you know, he's got it all. Uhm, and Josh


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[Assistant] Josh Jacobs is one of those guys, man, if you saw him in person, and my second team running back, Nick Chubb, same way here, you'd go, oh.


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[Assistant] That's what makes him a top. Josh Jacobs in person is a, I know his measurables don't look like it. He's a much bigger, thicker human being than you realize. I bet you he weighs significantly more than what he's listed at.


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[Assistant] You know, and he's just naturally thick with those, you know, thick neck and big square head and same kind of with Nick Chubb that way. Uh, but yeah, to me, those are the two best in the game right now. Uh, they're just between the tackles, making people miss.


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[Assistant] Chubb's better at the 50 or 60 yard touchdown run, but man, Josh Jacobs, the amount of awesome 15 and 12 and 10 yard runs, it's, it's off the charts good.


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[Assistant] quarterback got hurt, no AJ Brown, there was nothing to worry about other than just stopping Derrick Henry. That's all teams worried about there for a little while, and I think that certainly helped him. But still, I mean, hey, Derrick Henry, I don't give a shit if he doesn't make another pro bowl, wall pro team, whatever. Derrick Henry, for my money, is already an all-time great running back, and I think he's


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[Assistant] Gosh, he's to me probably getting on the fringe of first ballot Hall of Famer type of guy too for his career.


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[Assistant] Yeah, Saquon was certainly like, you know, I thought about him, I do, but man, Nick Chubb to me, as we did our running back rankings before the year, he just got it all.


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[Assistant] He really does. There's no aspect of his game that I look at to go, ooh, you know, I wish he was a little bit better there. He's still pretty underrated, I feel like. I would agree with that too. You know, share some carries.


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[Assistant] And their team doesn't get enough, you know, national spotlight games because they haven't been good enough to be in playoffs and things like that. So would agree with you there.


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[Assistant] This might have been the toughest one altogether, and yeaah, the talent there. Listen, for me, the top three receivers in football this year


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[Assistant] We're Justin Jefferson, Tyree Kill, and AJ Brown. Nobody was more of a game changer for their football team.


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[Assistant] You know, again, I'd be the guy that would sit there and tell you the MVP of the Eagles was AJ Brown. Nobody changed their team more than he did.


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[Assistant] And AJ Brown to me this year solidified himself as one of the two or three best, I don't know, what can you look at about AJ Brown? Every time he catches the ball, it's a 60 yard bomb or a touchdown. I mean, what else, is that not dangerous or is that not awesome?


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[Assistant] You know, I know some of the other guys on the right. I got Devontae Adams and Stefan Diggs and, and Jalen Waddle. I like all of them. But again, Devontae Adams, big plays, you know, they don't come the same way AJ Brown does in my opinion. Neither was Stefan Diggs. A lot of first downs, a lot of 15, 20 yard


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[Assistant] Yeah, the name, the name thing. Jamar Chase, again, in totality is a top five receiver in football. This year himself, did he have a better year? Yeah, he missed some games, right? Exactly right. You know, missed some games, played a number of games where he wasn't even 100% either, so I don't think you get to see the real guy for a good part of the year. Jaylen Waddle,


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[Assistant] You know, again, I know CD Lamb made second team, right? Where I don't have him. I just put more value in anybody who's listened to us knows this, in those type of guys. I put more value in the guy that


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[Assistant] You know, oh wait, you can throw him a slant round and he can run by everybody for 70 yards? Okay, yeah, CD Lamb, he's got a lot of great stuff, he's an awesome player, I have tremendous respect for him, a lot of awesome 12 and 15 yard catches and he's tough and everything, but I'm one that, you know, the explosive ability.


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[Assistant] You're talking about, one guy had 75 catches, Jalen Waddle, CD Lim had 107.


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[Assistant] Yeah, no, no doubt. I think it's, I hope they hold up. It's gonna be the big thing. I mean, yeah, you know, Devontae Smith, you're sitting here today. He was in a walking boot, you know, last week from all do accounts. Yeah. You hope they hold up to Jalen Wild did get beat up this year. We've seen Devontae Smith get beat up. I do think with the current rules of the way the NFL are, you know, those guys can.


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[Assistant] Last more now than maybe they could in the 90s or 80s when the rules were a little different.


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[Assistant] Well, Kittle, to me, 1 is a better run blocker than all those guys. Kittle is a pretty special run blocker.


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[Assistant] You know, Kittle also, you know, had a little bit of an instable, unstable, I should say, quarterback situation, right? You know, so that led, that led to, I think, some maybe underwhelming games in the early part of the year, early middle part of the year. But then he exploded once Rock Party got comfortable. You know, you saw what he was capable of. And to me, you know, him and Kittle were the


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[Assistant] You know, they're, they're the best in the game with the ball in their hand. I mean him and Kelsey. And Kittle, like, has a, you know, Kelsey might be better at...


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[Assistant] You know, wiggling and getting away and getting an extra 15, 10 yards and...


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[Assistant] But Kittle has like got legit, you know, a little bit more of an explosive ability to where you're like, oh, whoa, he's gone for 60 down the sideline, right? He might not be quite as good overall in the past game as Kelsey, but damn, he's special. And it's less, you know, it's, it's hard to.


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[Assistant] You know, 11 touchdowns? I mean, the plays he makes are game-changing, different, you know, different type of plays, and that's where I give him the edge.


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[Assistant] From what I've heard, I think you're right. And then, like, I mean, you talk about, you know, the names you just mentioned. I mean, Evan Ingram's a superstar. Dallas Goddard, damn good.


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[Assistant] You know, Darren Waller, I mean, he was hurt all year. I mean, Darren Waller, you talk to anybody in football, he's probably the most talented tight end there is in the game. Uhm, so that's a, it's a special position in the league right now.


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[Assistant] I think they're the two best tackles in the game. Left tackle, right tackle, whatever you want to say. I think you can almost just say that. I mean, if Lane Johnson got moved over to left tackle, you'd go, Oh damn, who's better him or Trent Williams? Or if you move Trent to right and you go, Oh damn, who's better him or Lane? Thank God they don't play on the same side. Uh, those were easy. The middle three,


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[Assistant] I think, you know, those are some conversations to be had and I think there was some differences there with me and the rest of the world.


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[Assistant] I'm a little bit of a sucker for an absolute killer in the run game, and that's what Frank Ragdow is. Again, Kelsey was, it was a hard one here.


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[Assistant] Kelsey athletically is better than those two guys. And there's things that he does on the edge and getting to the second level or type of blocks like that that I go, yes, no doubt about it.


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[Assistant] If you ask me like who would be better, like we want to run behind this guy and he's going to blow the nose tackle off the ball and we got to get three yards right here. I'm going to pick the other two guys to root out.


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[Assistant] A big Chris Jones or Christian Wilkins type of player, right? I think that's where, you know, they, they got a little bit of an advantage. Uh, again, Jason Kelsey, I'm not mad that he's on there. I guess I'm a little surprised he was first team. Uh, but yeah, I, I just look at Frank Ragnos being in the prime of his career and the best center in the game right now.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, Tooney and Creed Humphrey are really good. And Tooney to me, and again, one of the reasons I think I picked the Chiefs is, you know, hey Orlando Brown, hey Creed Humphrey we're talking about. Joe Tooney is arguably the best pass blocking guard in football. And, uh, that's, that's where I see his value.


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[Assistant] Again, Zach Martin is still really good. I think he gets a little overhyped because of prior accomplishments. Like what I want to tell people is like, let's watch film together and I'll show you Chris Lindstrom, Zach Martin, like four years ago right now, in the prime.


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[Assistant] To me, like the best road grading guard there is in the game right now. I mean, just dominates people. So I, I, I just don't think the, the public knows about him quite enough yet to make him first team next year. I think he'll be first team. You know, a way, uh, uh, Michael and Wayne, uh, uh, uh, Wayne, uh, Wayne, uh, he, um, you know,


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[Assistant] It's the same, it's, it's, you know, I'm a little sucker for these guys that are just killers, and that's where, you know, yeaah, he's got position versatility, but he's a great guard, and he's unbelievable in the run game, and of course good in pass protection too, and he was one of those guys that, you know,


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[Assistant] I uh, you know, I look at it here and not that I try to be different.


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[Assistant] But I just go, damn, does nobody talk about this guy? I don't know. Every game I watch, they would say, hey, we know the, we know the Patriots are going to run off the right guard and nobody stops it. And they just run right up the middle. And it's, hey, we don't even have a good offensive coordinator or a passing game this year, but we can still run up the middle with Damian Harris and Ramon J. Stephenson. And that's because of this guy. I think he's a hell of a player.


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[Assistant] People are getting better. We're getting better at that. We used to see guys that would hang around the All Pro team and you're like, are you?


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[Assistant] Let alone all pro? And yes, I think there was a little, hey, the thing that about, hey, that's where the PFFs of the world are good. They've expanded people's knowledge. Now, sometimes it's a little too much like this is the holy grail, and I don't always agree with that, right? And then the availability to film?


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[Assistant] Through PFF and other avenues, I do think it's helped people out to go, wait, I can just watch 50 plays of these guys right now and just watch this guy. And so I do think it's improved in that area for sure.


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[Assistant] No, yeaah, and to me too, you know, again, it's, it's uhm, you know, maybe my eyes a little different through being a player and things like that. But that's how it's supposed to be. Maybe where I can appreciate some nuances of their game that...


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[Assistant] You know, maybe a Peter King as great as he is won't appreciate, right? That's all I'm saying. And not to say I'm right or he's right or I'm wrong or he's wrong. I'm not trying to say that.


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[Assistant] You know, that's where, you know, hey, right tackle. Tristan Wirfs is awesome. I thought about him at right tackle, right? And second team, but I put Ryan O'Neal there.


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[Assistant] You know, I went, wait, Wurfs missed four games, he played a few games that he wasn't even a hundred percent, it wasn't his best ball, you know. I know in totality, he's probably a first team type of guy, but I did not think it was a second team All-Pro type of year with missing four games and then playing a few others out of the hundred percent. O'Neal is the reason


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[Assistant] You know, if it's a tie, I give the unknown guy the tie goes to the runner that way.


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[Assistant] But those guys are dominant. Those guys had dominant years. Yeaah, they're dominant. They are. Chris Jones was the besty tackle in football this year. Dexter Lawrence for me.


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[Assistant] Was a little bit of that guy that I don't know if people really realized how awesome he was all year. Didn't necessarily have sack numbers that put it up that way. But his ability, just like, game changing plays like the last play against the Vikings, right? No stat.


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[Assistant] He was about to crush Kirk Cousins and Kirk Cousins had to throw the ball before he wanted to and he had to throw it short of the chains, right? Yep. Had to throw a little four yard out instead of trying to get a pass in on the fourth and eight. He dominated that game. He dominated that game. He had a lot of games of domination.


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[Assistant] And the stats won't always say that. Uh, I think he's, you know, he's up there for not only one of the best interior pass rushers and pushing the pocket, but of course one of the best run stopping detackles in football. I just, I couldn't overlook his year. I thought it was a special first team all-pro type of year.


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[Assistant] I'm not. I mean, Quinnen, see, again, this is to me where Quinnen has more of the stats or the splash plays, right? So, that's where I look at it and go, hey, Quinnen's awesome, I get that. But, you know, I think between his sax and then


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[Assistant] Yeah, Dexter not getting enough credit for f***ing the play up or, hey, he's got three guys triple teaming him and he's just like, oh, I'm standing here so everybody else can make the tackle and there's still no hole. Right? He doesn't get the credit for that type of stuff. But Quinton Williams, I'm not mad at that. Certainly not. He's my second team guy. He was awesome this year. He really was the guy I was shocked at.


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[Assistant] Was Jeffrey Simmons winning second team, where I put Christian Wilkins.


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[Assistant] I mean, Jeffrey Simmons is the man too. I mean, we're talking about studs, but this to me was not one of his best years. And you couldn't watch a Dolphins game.


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[Assistant] It wasn't much. I want to say maybe one or two games, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm missing that.


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[Assistant] To me, again, it's the versatility of a Christian Wilkins is what he's asked to do, too. See, Quinn and Williams, it's just one gap, one gap, win that gap, win that gap. Christian Wilkins, they go- Oh, he did play every game? They go, he was every game? Okay, so he went, win that gap, win that gap, and then they also ask him to two gap, right?


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[Assistant] That's like with Dexter and Lawrence. So they ask him to win with like the speed shooting the gap thing, but then also hold people up and just control the giant human on earth. No problem. And to me, you know, I give that some value and yeah, they're, they're going to have to pay him some big money here soon.


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[Assistant] And finalize it when I'm on the plane and then they had no wifi on the plane. I was like, Oh my gosh, this guy's going to kill me. So.


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[Assistant] Uh, that night when I finally said I'm really, really sorry, you know, I was like, damn, what a great first impression I made. And he was like, don't worry, I'm still chasing half the voters to


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[Assistant] You know, first off, I think Nick Bosa and Mike Parsons for me were clearly the guys. Clearly.


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[Assistant] Miles Garrett to me was clear. The one I did go back and forth was Max Crosby and Hassan Reddick. It is. I mean, Reddick is phenomenal.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I know, I know. And, and, you know, I guess where I feel a little, or maybe the thing that, I feel like Max was all year long where Hasan might have been more, came on strong at the end of the season type of thing. And then I, you know, the other part of Max that I don't think,


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[Assistant] Gets talked about, cause we just talked about the sacks and all that.


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[Assistant] I would argue that Max Crosby plays harder, like him and Christian Wilkins, the guy we just talked about.


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[Assistant] They might play harder than anybody in football on a down to down basis. They never come off the field.


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[Assistant] And it's pedal to the metal every play, whether it's like, whoa, they just chased a guy 30 yards downfield and then it's still pedal to the metal in the pass rush the next play.


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[Assistant] So that's kind of where I gave him a little bit of an edge over that one, but that was one that kept me up a little bit, where I was like, man, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong with this one, uh, but Max is a hell of a player, Hasan is too, they're both worthy of it.


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[Assistant] Fred Warner to me is the best in my background in football. There's nobody better than Fred Warner.


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[Assistant] CJ Mosley, similar position, same exact defense really for the most part.


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[Assistant] And we talked about him a lot throughout the year. Mostly Fred Warner.


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[Assistant] They're just, there's just no weakness to their game. And Mosley...


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[Assistant] You know, a little, it was a little shocking just because you were like, wait, the, you know, injuries getting up there a little bit in age. Is he going to be the same guy? All that. Uh, he was everywhere this year.


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[Assistant] Right? Uh, Ro Kwon, I think speaks for itself. He's in that conversation for one of the best linebackers in football. It's probably my second team guys that are a little bit surprising to people out here.


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[Assistant] I'm maybe a little bit of a sucker for those guys. Now he's not the best past coverage linebacker, right? So that's always the thing you hear about him. But damn.


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[Assistant] I mean, if they didn't have him a middle linebacker this year, who knows what that run defense would be. You know, so yeaah, he's not perfect.


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[Assistant] But, he's arguably the greatest tackling machine in the game right now. And, you know me. I don't just go with tackles. Like, linebackers, they all get a lot of tackles. So, you know, there's a difference between the tackles. In AluaCon, a lot of tackles are made in the hole, or at the one-yard


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[Assistant] I see him making tackles of like, whoa, he took on the fullback and got off him and made the tackle for a one yard gain. Whoa, he took on the pulling guard and just


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[Assistant] DeMario Davis, that's what we're looking at. It was the same thing said about DeMario for a while. Oh, he's not the best in past coverage, he's by the best. It's not the worst by any stretch of the imagination. Uh, but yeaah. I'm a huge fan of his. And then Dre Greenlaw?


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[Assistant] To me, he's arguably the most underrated linebacker in the sport. He's in that 49er team that's just got stars galore and they...


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[Assistant] He kind of just gets lost in the shuffle. If he was a middle linebacker for another team, everybody would be going, oh, he's one of the best linebackers in football. He gets overshadowed because Fred Warner's on his team who's a little bit better than he is.


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[Assistant] I want to go, man, he put him on like 90% of the other teams in the NFL and they're going to go, well, he's the best linebacker in our team or our division. Uh, I, I think he's amazing. And then Nick Bolden to me, uhm,


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[Assistant] I think a little bit like I'm just saying, Madrid, great. He gets a little lost in the shuffle of the other stars on the Kansas City Chiefs, right? And, you know, their defense, it's not always a


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[Assistant] Top six defense. So, you know, everybody always looks at that's gotta be the best middle linebacker because that's the top defense, right? And no, not necessarily. I mean, again, no weaknesses as you saw in the Super Bowl can do everything and is awesome in the run in the pass game. I'm a big fan of Nick Bolden.


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[Assistant] Yeah, which I don't just, I don't agree with it at all. Bobby Wagner is not a second team all-pro linebacker. I would push it, he's still very good.


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[Assistant] The Rams told you he wasn't a second team all-pro linebacker this weekend. They're gonna part ways. An all-pro linebacker who's making what?


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[Assistant] Almost half the other top linebackers in football, it's a bargain. If he was an All-Party library, they'd go, we definitely want him, right? He's not that. He's still very good. He's a guy that I think we look at and go, his name, who he is, the number next to his name as far as tackles is putting him to me a little higher. The guy that I and Matt Milano,


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[Assistant] I also love him. He's first team for the AP. I know. I, I do. I just...


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[Assistant] Yeah, I don't know, I just don't put him quite in the class of these other guys. I have tremendous respect for his game. And I've been one that's been touting him and, uh, Edmunds up there for a while.


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[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, I just didn't put him in that category. Uhm, the other guy that I did think about with the second team was DeMario Davis. DeMario Davis, again, he's old school to me like that. And maybe I'm a little bit more old school in nature that way. I am and do, yeaah, plug the hole, stop the run.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and he still can cover, I mean he's, it's amazing what he's doing. Him and Bobby Wagner, what they're doing at their age is, is unreal.


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[Assistant] There's like, I think if you, if you just took a random team and said how many games this year did you start the game at base personnel, right? Where it was four linemen, three linebackers. I bet you they're going to tell you, oh.


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[Assistant] You know, when we played the Titans, right? Oh, when we played the 49ers.


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[Assistant] Right? It's going to be like three games a year where they're going to go, well yeah, we played like the best running team in football. So we started base defense that game because they put on the field two tight ends and you know, two receivers and a tailback to start. So that's how we had to start. Right?


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[Assistant] I think it's definitely a real thing or a good topic of conversation.


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[Assistant] Well, the thing that I think we're talking about more importantly is arguably I think maybe the most, like one of the most important positions in football right now is not being represented on the all-pro team.


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[Assistant] That nickel corner, right? Right? That guy that we talk about, whether it's, you know, uhm, Mike Hilton for the Bengals or, you know, Jimmy Ward for the 49ers, who we talked about, it was a key to stopping the Eagles, right? He's gonna have to cover the receiver and stop the running game, right?


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[Assistant] You know, those type of guys, yeaah. It's too valuable right now to be left off the team and I think there's some guys that are worthy of being first teamers.


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[Assistant] No, it's not. No. And even like in the draft, I've had to stop evaluating that way and start going, wait a minute, Nickle's a real thing. I can't just go, oh, if you can't play outside, they move them inside. Now you just go, no. Hey, Marcus Jones from


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[Assistant] Uh, you know, uh, AJ Brown, that's not his cup of tea, but inside he's going to be amazing. That's a real position. I do think it needs to be reevaluated.


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[Assistant] I'm really three out of my four, not shocking. You know, and I think people know, like, yeah, Jair, I feel like people started to realize how good he was at the end of the year. Tyson Campbell is, yeah, he's a little bit of one of my sim superstars. You know, again, when it gets into the secondary, I'm not so much into the PFF grade as much as everybody else or the other grades out there.


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[Assistant] You know, again, oh wait, this corner got to play cover three and just drop into a third all year long with a great pass rush. Well, his grade is 99.7. Well yeah, he didn't have to do shit except backpedal and not let the guy run by him the whole year. That's, that's what we're gonna make, we're gonna make him all pro because of that?


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[Assistant] And then here's another guy that his grade is 82, but he had to lock down the number one receiver on the team and follow him around all the field.


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[Assistant] Right? He didn't just get to drop into the cover three zone all game long and have the best pass rush. And we go, wow, his grades not as good. I mean, did you see that play last week? And I go, well, yeah. Did you see who's covering? That's arguably the freakiest guy on the planet. And they're just saying, cover him. Like it's nothing.


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[Assistant] And, you know, we're gonna downgrade it. So, secondary, I'm a little different. Tyson Campbell's that guy.


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[Assistant] Tyson Campbell is the guy that they go, cover him. Oh, he got burnt? Well yeah, he's got burnt. He's covering the number one receiver. He's not burnt. The quarterback just threw a perfect throw and like he was all over it. I think he's phenomenal. So that's where


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[Assistant] You know, my safety in corners is going to be a little different because of that. Yeah, Minka Fitzpatrick and Kyle Duggar, the first team.


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[Assistant] Yeah. And I don't even know what Kyle Dugger's ra-rating was. I mean, maybe Pete can tell us how he was looked at from the scouting community.


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[Assistant] You know, but I just look at what he did for New England, what he was asked to do, and how much he impressed me on a weekly basis. Can cover tight ends, can cover big receivers, he's awesome in the run game, he's a great blitzer. I just, I look at him and go, he's one of the best safeties in football. Eighth out of 68th.


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[Assistant] On PFF. Okay, oh that makes, alright, I guess that makes me feel better.


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[Assistant] You know, Buda Baker's another guy where it's just a ton on his plate and he makes that defense go. And I think he's, you know, arguably one of the best tackling safeties in football.


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[Assistant] It is kamikaze that way. And then Javon Holland goes into our other category. I guarantee his ranking is not good. But.


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[Assistant] Like, Javon Holland, Dolphins, what do we talk about their defense all year? Blitz, blitz, everybody blitz it. He's like, hey, Javon Holland, you're a safety, we gotta cover this awesome slot receiver. Nobody's gonna help you. You know, oh, it's a bad grade right there. Well, okay, most defenses in football wouldn't even call that because they would go, our safety can't handle that, so we can't even call it. So he gets downgraded for actually having a better skill set.


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[Assistant] And that's where I do think the narrative needs to get corrected a little bit there. Uhm, he was 33rd.


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[Assistant] Right. And I would just go, damn, Chris, he's in the Christmas top five safety ranking right now. I mean, he's, and when I watch him, I just go, holy shit. What an unbelievable open field tackle. Holy crap. Where did he come from? Wow. What a nice play on the ball. Oh, he got burned because he, you know, is covering Jamar chase with no help here. Okay. Oh damn.


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[Assistant] Alright, yeaah, alright, he let up a 20-yard completion, okay. He was there.


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[Assistant] But I mean, what I don't understand is like, did people not watch Who Funga the last six, seven weeks of the year?


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[Assistant] He get, what, he got first team just because he was like the unknown guy and early in the year he made some highlight plays? I mean, I, I just, he struggled.


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[Assistant] Big time! I would argue nobody let up more big plays than the last six, seven weeks of the year than Hufanga. You know me, I watch the Niners like it's like my religion. I don't never miss a snap on the Niners.


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[Assistant] So, I did not get that one. Uh, Derwin James and Justin Simmons are awesome. They made second team for the ABA. Yeaah. They're really awesome. I just, I didn't put them in the...


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[Assistant] Category of the other two this year for what they did.


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[Assistant] It's crazy, is what it is. It's crazy. So that's your team. Do you get to do it again next year? I think so. They didn't fire me, not that I've been told yet. How many people vote for that? Do you have any idea?


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[Assistant] Yep. So it is though. I mean, 50 in the whole football community. It's a great honor. I'm really, I was, I was like, uh, it's very cool to do.


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[Assistant] And I'm, uh, I'm, you know, I appreciate being a part of it. I do. And then I do think it's, you know, a little bit of like, hey, this guy's been around here for a while and he does a pretty good job and follows the league. And, you know, I'll give myself a pat on the back to go, hey, okay, things are going in the right direction if people value me a little bit.


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[Assistant] That's what I'm talking about, right? It's like, that to me has such great value.


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[Assistant] Oh, I mean, it's just like, yeah, there's, we know you're going to run it right here and we got nine guys right here and damn, you moved two of them out of the way. And that to me puts you on another level than, you know, you know, maybe just the guy who's just getting it done or getting a good grade all the time.


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[Assistant] Yeah, he's a superstar, and he ain't going anywhere, and don't be shocked if you see him on the All Pro team next year. I mean, don't, he's, he's definitely projecting that way.


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[Assistant] You know, and, and you know, again, you just see not only the size, you saw the athletic ability with him motioning and all of that. I mean, yeah, we're talking about a guy that's the staple for the right side of your line for a long time.


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[Assistant] He does not. He does not. Cause he doesn't, he's not like a superstar, doesn't have an elite trait, but he can play the position.


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[Assistant] And yes, some of the things he does get overlooked by, you know, the, the, the public on a every week, you know, basis or, or my Mike Florio, you know, uh, show made on, on PFT. But, you know, too, to add to what you're saying, they weren't a great running team this year.


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[Assistant] Yeah, their interior line can't protect. They have two good tackles who are great on the edge, but he always has people in his face.


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[Assistant] And what I would add even more to yours, it ain't dink and dunk when we watch him play. They're aggressive. They throw the ball down the field. So yea, he's not going to be Mahomes or Allen and get on my back. I'm going to scramble around and make all these crazy plays and throws. But if you just give him a little chance, he'll take advantage of it.


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[Assistant] And, uh, I'm with you. That's good for you to put them on the list.


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[Assistant] Capitalized, was the biggest playmaker on their football team this year. You know.


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[Assistant] Some ways prove me wrong, for sure. As far as like, you know, just...


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[Assistant] Has a more of a physicality and kamikaze style of play than maybe I gave him credit for. Uh, not a real big guy, but man, he brings it and yeah, screens or give him a seam on the edge of the offense. He's a home run hitter.


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[Assistant] That's where he's special. And yeaah, he made the most of it. I mean, cause like you said, he shared some carries with, with, uh, what's his name? Big guy from Boston College. Uh, this year, Dylan. Yeaah, exactly right, so.


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[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, he was, he was impressive. That was a big time year. And they just, they just restructured his contract, right? Uh, I think they lowered his cap number a little bit just to keep him around, which they need him. Like we said, he's, he's one of the few guys there, him and Watson that I look at right now that I say he can do more than what the playbook


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[Assistant] He's capable of making some individual things happen to help the team out.


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[Assistant] Definitely. I mean, that secondary's got some ballers. They do. I think when you talk about Andre Sisco and, uh, you know, uhm, oh damn, I'm just blanked on as Jenkins, Rashawn Jenkins, right?


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[Assistant] You know, uh, so you'll, you'll look at that and you go, Ooh, wow, there's some young talent there that can be dangerous. And I'm looking at this right now.


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[Assistant] I didn't, I must have missed this, but fifth best cornerback in the NFL according to a vote by the players? Yeah. I did not see that. I've been paying attention to those a little bit and seeing them when they come out. I missed that. But okay, that says something.


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[Assistant] You know? Okay, PFF, I'm shocked he was top 10 there. I thought he'd be less than that just because like I said, he's putting up some really tough man to man situations. Uhm, but man, I'm a huge fan of what he is. He's an island corner, and you know me, I put those guys in a higher regard. The problem is though, if the players


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[Assistant] It's a brilliant pick by you here. This is one of the most undervalued, under the radar, defense of players in football.


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[Assistant] It gets a little overshadowed because of some of the big names on his defensive side. There's a second round, second pick of the draft in Chase Young. But I think we've been consistent in the last two years.


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[Assistant] You know, even before Chase Young got hurt, I know I was on here and on PFT going, Montez Swett is the best pass rusher on the Washington football team.


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[Assistant] He I believe is coming up. I think. He might be a free agent.


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[Assistant] You know, and then you gotta have Chase Young on the radar. I think Montez Sweat could be the number one reason Chase Young doesn't get an early second contract or whatever. They got some juggling to do there. I certainly would not let Montez Sweat out the door very easy. He's good in everything.


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[Assistant] He's good against a run, and yeaah, those measurables and how long and explosive he is,


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[Assistant] I have a hard time thinking he won't last the test of time here and hang around a little, you know, for a good amount of time more in his football career.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, it wasn't bad the first two years, it just wasn't good, it wasn't top ten of the pick, you know, draft type of good.


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[Assistant] He became a force of nature this year. And a one-man wrecking crew. And definitely when you turn on Carolina Panthers film, he popped every week. And I think it's kinda funny, and I know we talked about it during the year, just the amount of


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[Assistant] Good D tackles and good Dean Lyman in the game right now, but I think there's a real correlation to like you look at the top defenses in football.


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[Assistant] The de-tackle thing is almost right where you look at a lot of the time. They go, oh yea, okay, those guys are there, that's tough. And, uh, yea, he's, he's amazing and he's a building block there in Carolina for the future.


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[Assistant] Right, and it was, uh, if I can remember right away, it was him and the guy from the Tennessee Titans, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Is, probably is about as important as it gets, I mean.


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[Assistant] Just ask the Super Bowl champion, Kansas City Chiefs.


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[Assistant] I mean, you see, like, a guy like Matthew Slater, how, how, like, valuable he's been to the Patriots for such a long time. There's a little bit more nuance to the position and doing it than I think people realize.


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[Assistant] There's some coaching and, and, you know, hey, we want you to get down there and force the guy to go this way, you know, so the rest of the guys can make the tackle. And if you can make the tackle in doing that, please do. But yeah, I mean, Hardy became a marked man. I feel like he kind of made a name for himself.


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[Assistant] You know, about halfway through the year, then you become, oh wait, they're doing double teaming every time you punt the football.


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[Assistant] And then that's where it's another skill set. The build will also have the combination of strength and speed to fight through the double teams all the time and still make tackles. Yeah, that's special. It was hell of a year. Some of the crazy Jet fans in our viewing rooms on Sunday were the ones that certainly pointed me out to Justin Hardy on a lot of base, uh, on a lot of weekly basis.


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[Assistant] We overlook it a lot when we talk about the breakdowns of football games.


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[Assistant] A guy that Pete, again, put on my radar, you know, pretty early on in the football season. And when we got towards the end of the year, I kinda got sick of hearing, talking about him all the time. Like, I got it, I got it.


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[Assistant] Just, you know, guys like this have great value to a football team. Yeah. Backup secondary football player can do some things there, but you know, at the end of the day, his is, this is his main gig right here. And, uh, he helped out the commanders in this department. One more. It is a long snow.


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[Assistant] I mean, that's really what separates this, this position right there. It's just that, like, yea, all these guys snapped the ball.


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[Assistant] It's not that big of a difference between the best snapper and the worst snapper. It's about, yea, who can get down there, who has the speed to get out of that position, get down the field, and then be somewhat of a threat to make the tackles, right? Uh, so yea, D-Piola, D-Piola, D-Piola.


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[Assistant] I think I got that right. He's a little pale. And I can't even remember.


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[Assistant] There's another snapper we had in the running, Pete. I can't remember off the top of my head, but, uh, all in all,


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[Assistant] He was deserving of it and got not only the Peter Peter awards, but the first team.


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[Assistant] That's cool. That's his goal. That's, that's, hey, there's a career to be had there. There's no doubt. And they protect you now. They can't line up over you and like break your neck anymore. A lot of positives there. It can play forever. Right? I had a kid in college I played with. He never really played


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[Assistant] On the team. He was like our fourth tight end and he went to the Minnesota Vikings and was a snapper there for 10, 12 years. Outlasted all these freaks of nature we had at Texas. He played longer than everybody.


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[Assistant] You could, you could, you know what, maybe that should be your job for the weekend. What's that? Who's got the best big butt of the combine? Oh, you're right. You know, gimme, gimme the look, gimme, you know.


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[Assistant] Literally the biggest butt maybe in football and figuratively one of the best big butt of the year award players we got.


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[Assistant] We were talking about him a lot coming out in the draft two years ago, and we, you know.


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[Assistant] We, we were telling, trying to tell people he was the best pass rusher in that draft. Yeaah. He's, he's a superstar, Ahmed. He's, he is a superstar. And he is on the trajectory of, I'm gonna be one of the five best pass rushers in football and make somewhere close to 30 million dollars a year here in the next few years.


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[Assistant] They're gonna have, you know, first world problems just figuring out how to keep all those talented young players they got.


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[Assistant] We gave him a lot of praise all year long. All year long. It was the first year in


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[Assistant] You know, seven years or so that there was somebody not named Aaron Donnell that was known as the best defensive tackle in football. And it was this guy right here. He's been probably second in football for like the last three or four years, maybe five really.


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[Assistant] Uh, but this year he was clearly the guy and we saw a number of marquee moments throughout the year.


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[Assistant] And in the playoffs, of course, in big moments, he's, he's a star. He's, he's a difference maker and.


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[Assistant] Be interesting, you know, I gotta look at him. He's, he's a type of guy with what he got paid a few years ago on the way he's playing. They're gonna have to worry about his contract probably in the next year or so too.


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[Assistant] With TJ Watt being hurt this year, Joey Bosa, you know, being hurt, I just think these two were clearly the best. Like, Bosa's the best defensive edge player in the game. I think, you know, like one game, one game. Pass rusher, run game. Right, I'm taking him.


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[Assistant] He's not as great of a pass rusher as Nick Bosa as far as all the things he can offer to offensive tackle in his skill set.


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[Assistant] But his explosive ability is so off the charts that you're just like, he only needs two moves. That's all he needs. Because it's, it's so-


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[Assistant] Real how quick he can get off the ball, turn the corner, handle a little weight on his frame, even though he's 248 pounds or whatever. Uhm, yeaah, I mean, they're both amazing, but just amazing in a little bit of a different way. So, okay, I'm cool with you splitting their butt up there.


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[Assistant] It's a little weak, a little weak for our group. You wanted more? Well, you know, we've had, we've had these type of votes that go into the thousands before, but I think everybody already hit the off-season Super Bowl mode last week and they, they didn't get involved.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I understand that. I certainly do. You know, it wouldn't have been mine, but I got no problem with this list here. I think those are the guys that, you know, you would look at. I know we had a few others receiving votes as well.


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[Assistant] The Eagles O-Line got a vote. Mike Florio got a vote.


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[Assistant] Top choice for the homies. I don't have any problem with that. I think what I'm more shocked at is that one Tyree Kill didn't get more votes. And that the homies, there's no AJ Brown on here.


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[Assistant] I think AJ Brown did more with the ball than anybody in the sport. I think he caught more balls that were improbable to catch than anybody in the sport. Maybe Justin Jefferson did. I think he caught more 50-50 balls. I mean, he has some numbers.


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[Assistant] Where I go, you know, to me, him and Tyree killed, nobody changed their teams more. I'm not saying their year was better than Justin Jefferson. He's totally, but I'm just shocked that they weren't two guys that changed their teams more.


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[Assistant] Then those two direct correlation. Again, I mean, 88 receptions for 14.96, 17 yards per reception, and he has another number one on the other side of the field.


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[Assistant] The homies are missing out on his value and Tyree Kill's value to the Dolphins, just a little.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean if there could be like a left tackle or a right tackle who plays in some crazy division where there's like great pass rushers and has a crazy pass rusher and right, he gives up no sacks all year.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's probably, that's, that's hard to disagree, just, you know, disregard that group right there. That's, that's pretty strong. And I think, you know, we're in agreement that, you know, the, the top three guys to me were clearly


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[Assistant] You know, the top three guys. That's for sure. Both the Jones and Parsons were a little bit of a class of their own for my money.


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[Assistant] We had some rookies. I mean, Kenny Pickett, what a year he had. Damian Pierce, right? Running back for the Texans. I see Tyler Smith, the tackle for the Cowboys. Christian Watson, George Pickens, they all received votes. I mean, there was some studs in this rookie class. I was one that, I was,


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[Assistant] Brock Purdy won my offensive, or rookie offensive player of the year. And I put Kenneth Walker second, I think, with Garrett Wilson third, honestly.


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[Assistant] You know, Juan Purdy, what he did at quarterback, I know the team was good, he's still a quarterback who was expecting to be a third stringer. And to come in and do that, and then really kind of...


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[Assistant] I don't know, make the offense look as good as it's looked in three years? I mean, that's what we're talking about here. And then, Kenneth Walker.


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[Assistant] I don't think, when you saw him get healthy in week three or whatever, I don't think there was any, like, you know, there's no, no sh-


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[Assistant] Wasn't as shocked to me or their success of their offense exploded because of him. And I think, you know, as we've talked a lot during the year, physically his skill set is as good as the top running backs in football. I mean, he's superstar all over him.


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[Assistant] No, they did not. No, you're right. Wilson I think had a...


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[Assistant] The New York media behind him, he himself is a little bit more boisterous and talks to the media a little bit more. And I think that added to, you know, his overall flair as a person gave him a little bit notoriety in that department.


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[Assistant] Yeah, uh, sauce, uh, to me this should be closer. Sauce to me is a little...


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[Assistant] And again, he's not overrated, he's being overrated a little bit. Yeaah. And I don't think Aidan Hudgens is getting enough credit for what he did would be my first thing. Tariq Willenham, it's awesome to see him get love, cause I mean, again,


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[Assistant] For that guy and what he did at the combine to be the first thing he jumped on the scene and then capitalized that. That was amazing.


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[Assistant] And he is disruptive that way to where he shoots through gaps and wins with quickness like we talked about in the draft process where he gets through there, he might not make the tackle, but he ruined the play. Right? Let alone the interceptions, some of that, it can do everything.


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[Assistant] Awesome. But a little bit does benefit from the things I talked about a corner earlier.


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[Assistant] It's a lot of cover three. It's a great pass rush. Again, I want to make this clear. He's awesome. I'm just saying sometimes that gets a little pushed higher than it should and I think that's maybe a case for me.


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[Assistant] I'm saying yes. He's not getting put in some of the positions that some of the other ones are getting put in. Not that he couldn't handle it. He's showed me he can. It's just that he doesn't do it as much as they do. And then of course, as we talked about all year, that Jets pass rush is ferocious.


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[Assistant] I went Shanahan. I did. I went Shanahan. I had Dayball 2, Doug Petersen 3. I mean, it was so hard, really, even with Dayball and Doug Petersen there. Uh, and I'm not... Dayball, certainly deserving. Uh, I guess, you know, again, Shanahan, I just look at


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[Assistant] Like what we talked about a little bit with Brock Purdy, it's the third stringer and no, not only do they like, oh, we don't have to manage the offense, the offense exploded. And then not only are like, oh wow, we're just finding ways to win games with our third stringer. No, they were dominating teams like we talked about.


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[Assistant] That's where, you know, I'm, I'm amazed by it. And I don't know, I guess there's a part of me too that thinks Shanahan should have won it in 2019 when Jim Harbaugh won it over, John Harbaugh, excuse me, the Ravens won it over him. Uh, so yeah, I gave Shanahan the vote. I know I'm probably a little biased in that department, but certainly not mad to see Dayball win it.


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[Assistant] An all-time game plan to beat a team that's better than you in the Super Bowl? Yes, he should have been bumped up after that playoffs.


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[Assistant] Definitely. He took, with that last win, he was already...


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[Assistant] The upper echelon Hall of Fame coach. He's now...


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[Assistant] We're talking about the Tom Landrys of the world and, you know, the Bill Washes and the Chuck Knowles and all those. I mean, he's to me in that. I'm not saying he's above them, but like greatest coaches in the history of the league, two different teams.


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[Assistant] Right? That's the thing for me. Multiple, I mean, yea, Super Bowl appearance with both teams, multiple with one team, in the midst of a dynasty that's still going, yea. He's up there.


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[Assistant] No, it's almost like, you know, his Eagles career.