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[Assistant] Join love at 31. The people of course are chatting. We got some questions from this show earlier in the week. This is from Kings of South Pod on Desmond Ritter.


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[Assistant] Just finished Monday's pod and had a question about Desmond Ritter. Hearing you say he hasn't shown enough yet to warrant a higher ranking is reminiscent of your early views on Jalen Hurts. Do you see Ritter having a similar trajectory as Hurts?


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[Assistant] I think that's the problem. This is, you know, and it's a good question, but it's also kind of looking at the premium example that Jump Hurts made, is that you can make that jump when you also have the running element, and Ritter just naturally doesn't have that kind of running element, not Hurts.


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[Assistant] Alright, so a question about Sam Howell, who was number 39. This is from Jeremy Min Burns. He said, don't hate, ameliorate.


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[Assistant] Sike to see Sam Howell make the top 40, especially since he's essentially an unknown quantity. However, if everything breaks right for the kid with BNME, what's his ceiling look like for the season and on next year's top 40? I know, I listened to the show and I know you said that


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[Assistant] Howell's arm strength is kind of surprising. Right. I think when you look at the frame and the kind of player he is, sometimes he'll make throws and you're like, oh, I didn't know he had that in him. Exactly right. So, you know, where does that kind of give him in terms of ceiling-wise?


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[Assistant] It's amazing how everybody forgets that year, his final college season, that summer. He was in the first round of every mock draft for top 15. And UNC lost a lot of talent. I think he was banged up that year. He didn't play his best football. He played better the year before that. And then falls off a cliff in the draft. Not even like,


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[Assistant] A lot of quarterbacks like Will Levis. Will Levis had a down year this year. He was better two years ago. He still went in the top 40. Sam Howell fell off the face of the earth.


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[Assistant] A good question from Jeremy Minburns on how he will be an interesting player to watch this year. The next one is from Athletic Decline. This is on Anthony Richardson. He said, is Richardson's upside that high to put him over the other rookies, or is it based on the situation?


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[Assistant] Is there some of that this year with Richardson that we saw in year two with Fields that when all else fails you can lean on that run game? I think they're gonna- Like you just constantly like power running in the red zone or just pure scrambling, right? It's just all there.


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[Assistant] Burrow's comments make me think they might. Let's uh, let's actually hear from Burrow as well. Burrow did have an interesting quote on this.


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[Assistant] We know the Bengals have a pending negotiation coming up with T. Higgins, which is probably something that he's alluding to a little bit in there. I think Burrow knows.


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[Assistant] As long as he has Teagans and Jamar Chase around him, he's gonna be in a good place. Right.


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[Assistant] I'm not convinced he's the guy that'll chase every last top dollar right now. And he'll still be very comfortably paid.


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[Assistant] So it's not, you don't have, you know, certain names ahead of him that it's embarrassing is the good word for it.


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[Assistant] Alright, our next one is from PlugAndPlay16. He says, Hey, C&C, I think the Jets trading for Rodgers could be the best thing to happen to Zach Wilson in his development. Curious on both your thoughts since Connor is a Jets fan and Chris, you the man. Thanks, fellas. Ah, that's nice of you. Thanks, PlugAndPlay16. C&C,


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[Assistant] I think it was the only way that you could try to find a way to salvage Zach Wilson while being competitive. If you've said it before, like if you go out and give Derek Carr a three to five year deal, well Zach, there's no place for Zach Wilson anymore. There's a lot of options like that. There's a lot of guys that it just wouldn't have worked.


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[Assistant] Because he's the, what, he was doing special things. They were growing up watching going,


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[Assistant] I'm curious, and people will laugh at this and mock this and whatever, who cares, I know we don't care, I'm curious to watch Zach Wilson this preseason with


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[Assistant] No media, like no one's going to talk to Zach Wilson anymore, no attention, no expectations, and for the first time in his NFL career, which started after a COVID year at BYU, just watching.


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[Assistant] And digesting. Right. Rather than like, hey, it's like the Lion King thrown off the cliff, like good luck.


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[Assistant] A lot of 3-4, they'd play with 3 down defensive linemen and nickel, but that's cause they like 3 linebackers on the field.


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[Assistant] Alright, this one is from LockdownCV. All signs are pointing to Dalton Kincaid taking a Cole Beasley-esque role in the slot for the Bills. Do you gents think they use him this way? And can he put up near a thousand yards in his first season ever, even with knocks? Beasley had a career high 967 yards in 2020.


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[Assistant] Like, this is what I see. Has to be. He's their slot receiver.


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[Assistant] We're not trying to talk about other stuff. I think what people might be forgetting is, not forgetting, but overlooking is the feast or famine nature of Gabe Davis. When that's your number two, it's like, man, that's frustrating.


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[Assistant] When that's your number three, because how consistent Kincaid is, and you don't have to talk about Stefan Diggs, everyone knows what he is as number one.


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[Assistant] Alright, we'll close out with a fun one from McFlurry56 who asked, Why did you go to Texas for college? What were some of your other top schools you were considering? Oh, good question, alright.


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[Assistant] I missed you too, Chris. Good to see you, man. I listened to you and Connor, last couple of pods. Thank you. Sounded great. Good. I took a few shots.


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[Assistant] Well yeaah, it's not hard. He looks cool, he sounds cool. Yeaah. He knows a ton about football. Right. No, it was, it was great listening to you guys and it was kinda good for me because it was like a refresher on, on what's going on. Been going on here yeaah. This past month, you know, cause you're right, I've been in baseball world, been in a little horse racing world, and then I was at Big Ten media days. We got the Big Ten football package coming out. I mean look at you, seriously.


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[Assistant] We got a summer vacation, we got a new, we got a new puppy. I don't know if I told you that. You did not tell me that. Uh, yeaah, we got a golden retriever.


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[Assistant] Very cute. A puppy like, I mean how old right now? She's like, she's like 14 weeks I think right now. Okay, alright. And she's already getting bigger. And they say by one year, she's already almost full grown. She'll be like 40 or 50 pounds.


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[Assistant] I was like, you know, you realize that, like, this is the summer where the kids are getting older, they're nine and seven, like, they're self-sufficient, like, we, we can go do stuff now. We can go live our lives. Not anymore. Puppey right in the mix.


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[Assistant] I'm happy to be back here, uh, laughing with you and talking some NFL football. You know it. So this is hard for me because it's like I've been, I've been connected, but not as connected. Nah, don't worry. We'll get you up to speed here, slugger. I don't know exactly what you guys have talked about, what you haven't talked about, but we got a lot in the rundown here. Pete does know.


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[Assistant] And so he set up our rundown here. And so we got a lot of things. We're going to get into your ask me anything questions and there's a lot of different questions of different teams and players as you always do such a great job with.


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[Assistant] We want to talk about a couple things here. We're going to talk about the running back situation. You did talk about that a little bit with some ideas on how to make it better for the running backs, which I liked all those with you and Connor.


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[Assistant] And kind of how the running back position stacks up against these other positions too. Yea, right. I like this. The hierarchy of positions. If you were a GM, what is the most important, what's the least important position? Right, right. We'll talk about that, but let's start with some new head coach talk.


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[Assistant] Because we got how many new head coaches? One, two, three, four, five new head coaches? Is that it? That's right. Broncos, Colts, Texans, Panthers, Cardinals.


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[Assistant] So, we'll talk about what a successful season looks like for all those guys. But let's start with Sean Payton. Because he's been in the news a lot. He was in the news a lot around draft time. I remember that actually wasn't in the news as much as I thought he might be at that time.


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[Assistant] You've probably heard the comments, you know, Sean Payton saying basically he's the worst head coaching job that he has ever seen and they, you know, they won the offseason and oh look at us for the Jets and you know, rarely a team that does that is any good. Uhm, so he was harsh, he said he was wearing his fox hat. Yeaah. He forgot to take off his fox hat. Yeaah. And put on his, uh, his Broncos hat. Right.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think all that sounds right. I think he's a guy from the outside looking in who prides himself on shooting from the hip, telling it like it is, not being scared to tell it like it is.


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[Assistant] But I think you're right too, he was probably trying to stick up for his current players too, like these guys don't suck. There was bad coaching last year, so in a weird way he was trying to just like...


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[Assistant] Prop up his own guys too and make them feel a little bit better about the whole situation. Uh, Jay?


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[Assistant] That Drew Brees needed Sean Payton more than, you know, Aaron Rodgers needed Mike McCarthy. And we've seen it too with... Aaron Rodgers!


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[Assistant] Yeah, I'm a little different than most, I think. It's because there are only one team that can win the Super Bowl every year. I feel like consistent success.


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[Assistant] Alright, so what would a successful season look like for all the new head coaches? We'll start with Sean Payton. The Broncos were 5-12 last year with the worst head coaching performance in the history of the NFL according to Sean Payton. So, with the talent they have,


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[Assistant] I mean, I don't want to get into specific win-loss here necessarily. We're not going to do that yet. We'll do that in two weeks. Right. Three weeks. Um, but yeah, what does a successful season look like for the Broncos, you think?


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[Assistant] Yeah, Sean Payton said to USA Today, I'm gonna be pissed off if this is not a playoff team, which makes sense, he should be, right?


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[Assistant] Pete says in my ear, what's more important, getting to the playoffs or fixing Russ?


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[Assistant] Which almost in my head, I'm like, if they don't fix Russ, and they get to the playoffs, that's pretty good. That either means like, they were able to do it without a good Russell Wilson, or like Jarrett Stidham came in, and was rocking it. Well, I don't know. They might have to do both, obviously. They have to do both.


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[Assistant] They got a new coach. Shane Steichen comes over from the Philadelphia Eagles. What does a successful year look like for them you think?


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[Assistant] I think they could be 4-12-1, but if Anthony Richardson looks like the real deal, I think that's a successful season for them. Same record. They could have the same record.


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[Assistant] We'll get to that, we'll get to that. Uh, the Houston Texans, the team that you were writing off in the AFC, they got Tameka O'Ryans, uh, comes over from the 49ers as their defensive coordinator, added some draft capital.


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[Assistant] And, uh, Panthers, I did see, uh, our old guy, Matt Ruhl. He was at Big Ten Media Days. How was he? He's a good dude. He's a nice guy. He's a great guy. I like Matt Ruhl a lot. He chatted us up while we were there.


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[Assistant] So they should be close again. Maybe not two years ago, but early on in the season it looked like, oh, they might be something. Yeah, yeah, right, it was. Especially with that defense.


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[Assistant] I think if they're not in the playoff mix the last couple weeks it'll be a disappointment. You think it'll be a disappointment? Cause that division's nothing to write home about.


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[Assistant] The other half of the coordinator duo now coaching NFL teams for the Eagles, Jonathan Gannon. Gannon comes over to the Cardinals. They were 4-13 last year. What's a successful year for them? Kyler gets back on track.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, getting a discount is a great deal. Uhm, so yeaah, all these, all these coaches have something, like, unique to work with, with their new clubs, and Shane Steichen might not have his running back here, cause Jonathan Taylor's in the news, not happy with, uh, how those talks are going, Jim.


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[Assistant] Uh, Irsay, the owner there is being very vocal about what he thinks about. He says if he's gone out of the league, if I'm gone out of the league, no one cares. The league continues to operate. Which, you know, is true, actually. That is a true statement by Jimmy Irsay. But it seems like very counterproductive if you're trying to like ingratiate yourself to your best offensive weapon.


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[Assistant] It's X now. He's not tweeting. I'm calling it Twitter. It's very impossible to call it X moving forward. Uhm, but I think I saw a report, I don't know if it's confirmed, I don't know if it's rumors or something like that, that Jonathan Taylor was seeking upwards of maybe 16 million dollars a year on an extension.


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[Assistant] He's setting the edge and wants to know which is the better current NFL feud? Aaron Rodgers vs. Sean Payton or Jonathan Taylor vs. the Colts?


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[Assistant] I think I'm more intrigued in the Jonathan Taylor versus Jim Mercer and the Colts. That one's, that one hurts more for the Colts. Like the one, the Aaron Rodgers and Sean, that's both fan bases love that. They're like, oh, fire this up, go get him.


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[Assistant] Put on your GM cap. It's Future Chris right now. He's the GM of the Giants. Gonna take his hometown team to the Super Bowl.


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[Assistant] Uh, most of their money went to their quarterback. 19% went to their quarterback last year. Oh, we got music now. Do we play music on our graphics now? Is that a new thing?


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[Assistant] For this podcast, I think it is. So I was listening in the car to the podcast a couple days ago, and all of a sudden just music started playing. I was like, oh, they're jazzing Chris up here. He got boring or something. But then I was like, oh wait, they're probably showing a graphic right now. So if you're listening, there's a graphic, which is why you're hearing the music. We just didn't get boring. Uh, quarterback at 19%. Uh, defensive tackle.


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[Assistant] The big butts. The big butts. 14%. You got Chris Jones there too that makes a difference. Right. Then you got the interior on the offensive line. Right. The guards and centers at 12%. Right. Then you got wide receivers after that. So that's an interesting time.


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[Assistant] Right, and that's another indication, right? DNs go off the board pretty quickly. Defensive tackles, dominant ones go off the board pretty quickly.


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[Assistant] I think it's interesting too if we have the Eagles one we can throw that one up here because I'm looking at


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[Assistant] Trends with all three of these teams. And like you mentioned, yes, the big dudes up front offensive and defensive line.


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[Assistant] For the 49ers, and maybe again it's team unique, but it's the same way for the Eagles too. It's like it's safety, linebacker, and then kicker punter, long snapper. So what about that part of the defense of secondary safety?


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[Assistant] You would not pay running backs. You're part of the problem. You're part of the problem. I, I am. Yea.


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[Assistant] It's those game-breaking players that are valuable, right? Those wide receivers that, like you always say, can take a five-yard slant, Jamar Chase style, and take it 80 yards to the house. And it's just rare to find that in a running back, right? And so if you can't find, like, the game-breaker, you just gotta find someone healthy and good enough for the job.


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[Assistant] Alright, good. I like that. Alright. We got into the brain of the future Chris Imps. How many years do we have in this podcast before that's a reality? Before you're running some franchise out there.


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[Assistant] It is funny, it's like, it is a calculation that you do have to do, cause there are some people that say, take every penny that you can get, do not let the owners take any of that money, but if you're Joe Burrow, and you're thinking about 10, 20 years down the road,


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think the Bengals, depending on the health of Joe Burrow, are probably the team that I'm going to pick to...


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[Assistant] The Win the North, but maybe it's the Ravens? I don't know. No, I'm trying to think. Uh, Dolphins, Dolphins out here, I think. I keep thinking that's going to be my team that I'm going to pick. I haven't decided yet fully, but uh, Liam Crooks6 says, Hey Chris, big fan of the pod.


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[Assistant] How do you think the Dolphins defense will fare without Ramsey? And what player do you think will benefit the most under the Fangio system? So, uh, Dolphins are stacked. Uhm. Stacked. Ramsey, like, what are we hearing?


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[Assistant] How do you think Bradley Chubb plays in this system? Cause he didn't come on the scene and he wasn't a world beater, he got paid.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Injuries suck. Eleven Mim says, How do you feel about all the injuries that happen in practices before the season even starts? Garrett Wilson says he likes to practice how he plays, but watching clips of him hard cutting in practice one-on-ones is scary and he already has hurt his ankle because of it.


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[Assistant] Did you see any significant injuries back in your playing days? What was like the biggest one that was a bummer for you when you were playing?


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[Assistant] After this last year, some of the most intense, probably best practices that the teams have is not in the game, it's when they take on other teams and those joint practices it seems like now.


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[Assistant] We might have to do one pod no Jets question. Here we go, we got a couple here. Henrichson's John says, Chris, I'm curious on whether the Jets and Coach Salah will direct Rodgers to take more chances, less chances or about the same. We know Aaron doesn't like risks.


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[Assistant] I don't know, but he reads the headlines, he reads how much DAC has gotten ridiculed for all the interceptions last year, how many times people bring up 15 interceptions for Josh Allen. Now you have a different take on the interception than maybe most analysts out there.


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[Assistant] That is team dependent too, right? Because I think for the Giants and Daniel Jones, like that is maybe a situation where you go, alright, I do actually want you to be a little more protective.


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[Assistant] They got good running backs. They got Breece Hall. Once he gets back healthy. When was that? When's that gonna be? Do we know?


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[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, what, what, if, if they add him, where does that take the judge?


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[Assistant] Sometimes with the Ravens and Lamar Jackson you're trying to figure out what you should defend, the pass or the run, and they got a new offensive coordinator this year.


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[Assistant] My transitions are back. Did you hear that one? That was a smooth boom. Uh, coach Mills says in your heart of hearts, how do you think Lamar and company will do under Todd Monkin? So


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[Assistant] Munkin used to be an offensive coordinator all around the league with Tampa, uh, with the Browns, and spent, uh, three years with Georgia, won a couple national championships with them, and now he's back with the Ravens as their offensive coordinator. Apparently,


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[Assistant] Uh, LeBar Jackson now will call, uh, plays better, Todd Munkin thinks, by ditching that wristband. So he's making him get rid of that wristband.


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[Assistant] You just call it off the top of your head now? I guess? Or what are we trying to accomplish with that?


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[Assistant] Why is Purdy's small sample size being treated as the baseline for his career and Darnold's larger sample size of poor play being treated as having great upside?


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[Assistant] So a lot of, a lot of quarterback questions there for the 40 year... We have asked for a while and we'll be asking deep into the future on some of these things. So how would you attack that?


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[Assistant] Well, I think there are a lot of people in San Francisco who are upset that Trey Lance, they feel like he, they wanted to work with Trey. Yeaah. And they feel like he has not gotten the opportunities. He was hurt last year and now early on in training camp with very few opportunities that are already being written off. And so, I mean, what do you think Trey Lance sits?


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[Assistant] To the point where they had to, you know, have articles and said how they transformed it. A major transformation in his throwing motion.


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[Assistant] It's about time, right? Corey Joskiewicz. Hey Corey.


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[Assistant] A lot of people are down on the Giants. If Neal takes the next step and Schmitz comes in and plays well, this O-line could be the best since the 11 Super Bowl team. Same for the D. If Thibodeau and Aziz take a step is the biggest question the wide receivers feels like I'm higher than most on them too. So, yeaah, what about all that that Corey brings up with the Giants?


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[Assistant] To zero. Uhm. Then you don't get your money back. If a stock goes to zero, you're done. Detroit would be.


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[Assistant] I think the defense is, like any team that has a defense that I respect, I feel like it's hard for them to bust totally.


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[Assistant] Packers. Cause you said, like, Jordan Love, like, they like him, you said-


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[Assistant] Injuries of course, you know, Dolphins with two, uh, I think a lot hinges on his ability, which by the way, I met his brother, Talia, talking about how he's the starting quarterback in Maryland.


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[Assistant] Uh, he was cool. So I've spoken, but he was awesome. And, uh, he, uh, plays the ukulele and so we had him play that for us. It was a great song. He played center for Tua when he was like in the fourth grade. Is that right? He was the center. Tua was like the quarterback. So how tall is he?


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[Assistant] Yeah, I'm rooting for him though. Yeah, cool. Great ukulele player. He can fall back on that as his football thing doesn't work out. One more for ya. This is from Sloppy Joan Namath.


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[Assistant] Says, hey Chris, uh, my albino brother from another mother. Okay, cool, that's you. So I guess he's really white, like me, is what he's saying. No, no, no, no, uh, is that what that means?


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[Assistant] Or you're the albino, and sloppy Joe Namath is not the albino.


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[Assistant] I feel bad for Devin Joseph. That's 24, that's hazing. That's hazing. That's not cool.


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[Assistant] I had to, I had to. I had to let the Big Ten know who they're dealing with. Yeah, right. That's right. Red Pannon Man. Red Pannon Man.


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[Assistant] Dominant talk at the top of the draft with Trayvon Walker and you had Aiden Hutchinson there.


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[Assistant] I don't know, I'm going to throw this at you with Edge. Throw it at me. And I don't know if this is true or not. Okay. This is a theory. Okay. Oh, I like it. So I think that Edge has become the most important defensive position because it can cover up some deficiencies in the defense of secondary. You know, if you have some weaknesses there, if you get to the quarterback, that solves a lot of it.


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[Assistant] They can help out a good one, maybe can help out in the run game around the edge. And so you can help out in the pass and, and run game. You can get into coverage even sometimes with some of these athletic edge guys. I think it's emerged as the number one position on defense.


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[Assistant] We've been pretty good. Like the whole draft community is pretty good at identifying the talent for some of these guys. I think this 2017 year is one of the years where we missed a guy. TJ Watt was at the end of the first round. There were nine D edges taken in the first round. I think Hassan Reddick was technically like a linebacker back then.


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[Assistant] But I included him here, so, there was, I mean, there are the names, he had Miles Garrett number one, Solomon Thomas went second, then you had Jonathan Allen, who's had a good career, but then you had Derek Barnett, you had Taco Charlton there in the top six, so, you had some misses in 2017, and obviously everyone missed on TJ Watt at the end of the first round.


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[Assistant] Patrick, what is it? Mahomes? Mahomies? Number 2 overall?


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[Assistant] One was Kavon Thibodeau, where everyone had him second. He was drafted as the second edge guy off the board by the Giants. You did not have him in the top five. Third edge guy off the board by the Giants, right? Cause Thibodeau, I mean, uh, hit Hutchinson and Trayvon Walker. But the numbers are right. I just misread. So it's gonna be somewhere. It's whether the number or me.


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[Assistant] Uhm, so how do you, how do you feel a year later on that, uh, assessment?


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[Assistant] What do you look for in an edge? What is your ideal edge? Cause you got a couple different types out there now. You've got the big dudes like Eaton Hutchinson, who still has some quickness, but they're big and powerful.


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[Assistant] Who was taken at the top of the draft last year? You had Aiden, you had Trayvon Walker up there, you had a lot of people high on Kavon Thibodeau. Overall, how does this class compare to what we saw last year?


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[Assistant] Let's do it. Let's start right at the top here because I think, you know, we're gonna perhaps not follow consensus as much as we have at some other positions. You look at the other positions, I feel like your number one guy is number one or number two on a lot of people's boards. I feel like this one could be a little different. So we're gonna go one through five as we've been doing this whole draft season.


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[Assistant] In tier one, and there's only one man in tier one, so he stands alone as far as edge prospects this year. In your eyes, that man is...


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[Assistant] He was versatile, played inside and outside, linebacker in college at times. PFF had this quote about him, he goes, no edge prospect, manhandled offensive tackles more.


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[Assistant] That exercise. So I think we have, uh, his production, look at his production from the three years at, uh, Texas Tech, last three years he had.


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[Assistant] 13 and a half tackles for a loss in 2021, which led the team. He had 14 bat, uh, last year in 2022, seven sacks. I think maybe some people look at that and say, ah, we couldn't get into double digit sack numbers, but I mean seven college football couple of years.


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[Assistant] Sambivalent01 says you've talked about how you prefer receivers who have the big play potential rather than just being more polished in college. Do you have the same thoughts about edge play for a rar prospect at Wilson? Do you value him high and expect coaching to prop him up?


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[Assistant] Only one guy in the first tier, and that man is Tyree Wilson, who you think is going to be a top five, probably a top three pick. And if he does not go number three to the Cardinals, you will kiss the feet of one homie out there who disagrees.


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[Assistant] One button guarantee to you. Just like we do a podcast every Monday and Wednesday, we guarantee that Tyree Wilson will go in the top three. Did you say three? Or first guy off the board?


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[Assistant] So three edges grouped together in tier two, but you like one a little bit better than the other two. Your number two edge rusher this year is?


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[Assistant] Yeah, so you, you said it already. His nickname was Hercules. Yeah. And you wanted to paint the picture, but let's actually give the picture of him and what he looks like because this was out there. I mean, here's a guy that is 6'6", 272, with a six pack. A six pack.


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[Assistant] He's not slow, I mean with one arm. I mean he would get some offensive linemen off balance with just one arm swipes. I know, right. That's what I mean.


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[Assistant] How about the idea that that strength won't play as well when you're going against the grown men in the NFL?


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[Assistant] Right, well let's look at, let's look at how much speed and power, cause we have a hendekagon for the first time in unbuttoned history. We have a hendekagon. Is that 11, Pete? 11 things. So we got a little spider situation here with the, uh, the gon. You see the, the bench press was terrible. 8th percentile. Is that similar to what you were talking about with Wilson with the long


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[Assistant] 40 yard dash, he was in the 91st percentile, but then vertical jump. Nah, he can't really jump that high. So maybe knocking down some of those passes he won't be able to do, but yeah, there's like some things he does very elite and a hand size 97 percentile.


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[Assistant] Lance Zerline on NFL.com said, quote, he's more of a splash player than a consistent force on tape to him. So when he talked about it, what do you think he's saying? I don't really. You didn't see that. Well, I don't know. You know, I don't a consistent force. Maybe just the number of snaps, maybe too. I don't know.


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[Assistant] Let's start with the 40 yard dash then here Chris. We have some video of him doing it. 4.39 in the 40 was the second fastest by a defensive lineman since 2003 and here is a video of all of his


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[Assistant] Teammates, back in Georgia, watching it as he's going here, so. Look at these facilities. Oh, there he's going. Who's filming this? It's like a...


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[Assistant] Old phone or something like a flip phone. Doesn't look that fast either. This is in slow motion. Well, they're hyped now. Oh, now they're jumping around, they're cheering.


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[Assistant] So Nolan's been on the radar for a long time back in high school, was the number one high school player in the country according to 247sports.com, uh, 20th best all time. They compared him to Khalil Mack coming out of high school and then college at Georgia there.


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[Assistant] Said this on NFL.com, you worry about him holding up for 17 games with his size. I'm not worried about the toughness, but I just don't know if he can carry more weight without it slowing him down.


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[Assistant] See? There you go. Which kind of leads to this question. Does Nolan Smith from Georgia have the potential to also play inside linebacker in the NFL?


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[Assistant] Look at that guy, and it's just like he's filling it all up in the speed and the jump and the categories, like 99th percentile and then everything else is in the 15th to 5th percentile. Yea, well that's the size stuff.


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[Assistant] I like this guy. He looks almost bigger there than he does in his uniform. It's like he looks like a giant human being.


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[Assistant] Just pick that out of the area like, alright, I'm just gonna throw seven and five. That sounds disrespectful enough.


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[Assistant] Like honest to goodness, like this is often compared, right? Could that college team beat this? But if you just took like the defense of Georgia, some of their best players over the last three or four years, that would be a very, very good defense in the NFL.


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[Assistant] There's no doubt. Alright, I'm sold. I'm sold. Because, you know, after watching Tyree Wilson and Luke Van Ness, and then watching Noah Smith, I was like, I know he's fast, but he's smaller, and I don't know if that's gonna work, but I'm sold after having talked about him.


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[Assistant] It's funny you mentioned that because in his highlight reel, that's exactly, there's a lot of that where he is getting held. It's not just getting off of a block. He is actually getting held and that is not slowing down Will McDonald. No.


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[Assistant] He was a multi-sport athlete in high school. He played baseball, basketball, track and field in Wisconsin. Did not start playing football until his junior year. And then he goes over to Iowa State and he


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[Assistant] Uh, sets the school record twice with 10 and a half sacks in 2020, 11 and a half sacks in 2021. I think we have some film of his pro day as well here. So hopefully we get a look at his quads.


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[Assistant] Oh, that's usually a little different look. That was part of the, uh, uh, cave on Thibodeau didn't have the classic lower half. This is a different lower half though than cave on Thibodeau.


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[Assistant] But you know who we haven't talked about yet? I know we haven't, I know. We haven't talked about the guy who many people have as not only the number one edge in the draft, but one of the top players in the draft, maybe top three overall, certainly top five.


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[Assistant] So then let me get the counter. The counter to that then is uh, from an executive for an NFC team. So this is an executive. You know, if you're an executive, you know what you're talking about. He goes, power five players with traits who get sacks in college are going to get sacks in the pros. Anderson is way more likely to succeed than any of these quarterbacks in the draft.


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[Assistant] It's not even close. So the idea that you can't do what he did for multiple years at Alabama, even though you got the best players around you, so did Georgia, you know, and you have a good scheme, but yeah, so, so do other schools out there. You can't be that guy, that dominant force for this many years and not pan out in the NFL.


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[Assistant] Why many people have him at number one is for the reasons that we talked about. Production? Alabama?


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[Assistant] Let's talk, let's talk about how he's been in the discussion for three years. And basically I think that's how we've, we've known about Will Anderson for a long time because he goes to Alabama, immediate starter in 2020 on a national championship team as a true freshman.


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[Assistant] He won the Bronco Nagurski Trophy as the nation's top defender each of the last two seasons.


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[Assistant] He was fifth in the Heisman back in 2021, so it's definitely a name that has been in there, uh, the conversation for multiple years now. And you're right. You look at the production and it is ridiculous. Per PFF, he had 55 more quarterback pressures and 10 more sacks than any other college defender over the last three seasons.


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[Assistant] Point taken, some of those look easy, some of those are steam and some of those are stunts and some of those are unblocked, but I think we actually have the raw numbers here. Kristen has three seasons at Alabama and it's ridiculous, but you say throw that out because look at the film, don't look at


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[Assistant] Great kid. I loved that interview. That's why I hate doing this. I know. From that interview alone, I gave him the Combine Big Butt of the Combine Award. Yea, yea.


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[Assistant] Uhm, after watching that game in specific, what did you think?


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[Assistant] Who's that? Who tweeted you before we started this podcast? Doesn't know what you're going to say at all. He goes, I got Will Anderson outside my top 10 edges. Am I crazy or did I watch film and let my eyes tell me the truth instead of listening to my lying ears? Exactly. I, I listen, I told


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[Assistant] You've been very comfortable being out of step with consensus. We've established that throughout the years here. But are you as comfortable with this one as you have been when you're this far out of consensus from what it appears like at this point?


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[Assistant] Although maybe you're just letting your judgment get clouded cause he lied to you at the combine and he told you that he would do all the drills at the combine but he only ended up running the 40. Didn't work out at his pro day. I mean that is interesting though. I mean he said he was gonna do the combine drills and then only does one and then doesn't work out at his pro day. You do wonder what's going on there.


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[Assistant] So similar to Derek Stingley last year who you were lower on than most that previous years tapes maybe highlighted some of the things he does well better than last year.


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[Assistant] Producing for three years in a row now. So that might be something. He's a good player. I don't want that to be mistaken. He is a good football player. Well, who to believe now? This is a tough spot for me. Do I believe you or here's Nick Saban at the Pro Day regarding Will Anderson.


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[Assistant] Sorry. Pete wants to know if you just don't like Alabama players. You know, we went down this road with Tua and then Jameer Gibbs is the lone exception you've had here. And I guess Mack Jones is a, yeah. Yeah. You can't really say. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My Alabama.


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[Assistant] It's gonna be interesting. So you've made two declarative statements. I have. Two declarations. Right. On this podcast. Yeah. You said Tyree Wilson, you guarantee he's gonna be the number one. Edge guy. Edge guy off the board. Definite. And your guarantee is that Will Anderson's not gonna be a top ten pick. Yep. That's what I'm gonna say.


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[Assistant] So before we get into the honorable mention in the Robinhood category, as you just tried to get us to, let's take a look at your five. Let this sink in here. Tyree Wilson, congratulations. You're the number one edge guy, according to Sims. Lucas Van Es is up there too. You probably hire on him than most other people out there.


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[Assistant] Uh, two, Nolan Smith, maybe two, although he's getting some buzz after the combine. I think you're definitely hired on Will MacDonald as well. Yeah. So these guys should be pretty happy. You'll see it. Outside of Will Anderson.


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[Assistant] Red is popping to you. You see a guy in a red jersey and you're just like, that guy's awesome. That's gotta be him. Uhm, so, or you saw this. You saw Will MacDonald jump over a car.


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[Assistant] Oh, I haven't seen this yet. Actually I haven't either, so we'll watch this for the first time. Oh, okay. Damn, that's pretty good though. So yea, he put a little hand on the roof, but I mean to be able to get up to the roof is amazing. Yes it is. I mean this is not just a car, this is an SUV. Wow, he's outside the Arizona Cardinal Stadium there? I mean his agent took one look at that and be like, stop doing that. Don't ever do that again. Man, that was easy.


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[Assistant] Alright, so some of the guys who you considered perhaps putting in your top five over Will Anderson. Yes. Uhm, I've got some names here, I don't know if you just want me to rattle them off or if there's one name that was just on the edge.


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[Assistant] Yes, yes, the offensive lineman from Northwestern is probably going to be the first one off the board. Very good chance, right? We'll find out Wednesday what you think of him. Miles Murphy you talked to at the combine, not a Clemson, the edge guy, and I kinda had a feeling he'd be out of your top five when he said that he had trouble with


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[Assistant] The Syracuse running back Sean Tucker, who was very good, and also a Syracuse offensive lineman. And as a Syracuse alum, I'm like, we weren't that great. And so if those were some guys that you had some issues with, Chris is not gonna like watching your films. He is out of your top five, but in your Robin Hood category.


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[Assistant] That's one of the selling points from Dab El Sweeney, you know, and all the coaches out there, it's just like, you'll be a top pick. At least you'll be talked about that for a long time. So Derek Hall also from Auburn is a guy on your list here.


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[Assistant] You definitely have a type, and there are things that you like when you watch tape. It's the violence, it's the aggression, it's the toughness, it's playing with a little bit of an edge, and I think there's a guy from Kansas State. Yes, sir. Felix. Right. And Yudhike Uzama, who you like.


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[Assistant] On your list that you haven't touched on, bostonsports.2 says, people will say Will Anderson is Von Miller-esque, but I think BJ Odjelari has the best bend in this class. Right. LSU Ed.


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[Assistant] We have some evidence of that bend here. Let's see, we got his pro day as well. We got a vertical jump. He can jump and touch, uh, something up above his head. Yeah, it was. Prove that. Yep. Okay. Oh.


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[Assistant] So let's take a look at your Robin Hood players, because if any of these players go on to have a great career, we want to say, look at that. We knew it way back in the day. We just put every eligible edge guy on one list.


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[Assistant] So with that, we got a couple questions here of guys that you don't have on your list, or one guy that you don't have on your list here, who I do see as maybe top five for some other people out there.


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[Assistant] One more from Tripod2x. Do you think that the Raiders ride with Jimmy G at quarterback and snag one of these top edge guys at pick number 7?


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[Assistant] Sometimes you gotta juice it up for the guy, especially when you're an old man last year. I just wanted everybody to know. I said it, I said it the whole summer. They gon' think we goin' 75, guys. They ain't even thinkin' bout that 2p. So. You made that entire thing up.


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[Assistant] Oh yea baby, that's right, that's why they pay that guy the big bucks right there. Who could set that up better?


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[Assistant] Then the golden man himself, Ahmed Fareed, wearing his yellow pants. Who can even pull off yellow pants in the world right now? Not many, not many people. I'm willing to say that you're the only one hosting a show today in America wearing yellow pants. That's probably


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[Assistant] Well, you're pulling it off, you are. I'm wearing them, it is happening. And you got the red underneath, undershirt on, with the grey. Yea, you've been going more black, I've noticed that. I have, I guess it's my mood lately. Almost all black. Right, I don't know what it is. Is everything okay?


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[Assistant] But I have been feeling the black lately. I really have. And then once you get into a rhythm of wearing the same thing, you're like, this works. I can go the whole week. I actually looked at


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[Assistant] I was on Peacock and went through, I think like two weeks ago, I was looking for something.


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[Assistant] And I looked and I was like, damn, I wore black four days in a row. I tried to tell you. I know. I think you did. I know. And then the next week I followed it up with like blue the first four, three days of the week. And then I changed it up on the fourth day. You're becoming a cartoon character. I need to maybe infuse some color, especially for these warmer, warmer weather. Or not. Or this is just like Homer Simpson.


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[Assistant] Fun is standard policy in the Sims household. I'm always going to make it fun. Yeah, college basketball games, cool to see. Parents came over Saturday.


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[Assistant] You know, little boy doubleheader baseball game yesterday.


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[Assistant] So, doing that, froze my ass off. Sitting there for four hours yesterday, watching the double header. They don't have a pitch clock. I got a little tan. Yea, you do have a little color. Yea, I got a little tan, I got color. I mean, I was out there, but as anybody, I mean, the Northeast in April is still not very fun. And it was like 39 degrees watching the baseball game yesterday. We get tricked.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, we made it. We're in spring. Saturday was kind of like that. We had a 70 degree day up here, and you're like, oh man, this feels great. It's humid. This is awesome. Woke up the next day, it was freezing hell. Yeah, you're screwed now. You had a good weekend. It was all good. Horse guy over there.


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[Assistant] That's right. You know, there's a blend of that power speed element. There you go, wait, what's gonna work in the NFL? And I was a little bit on Najee Harris of the, you know, hey, I know he's big and strong and powerful.


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[Assistant] You know, like we've talked about before, there, there would be some holes and you'd go, damn, you only got 10 yards. That, you know, gosh, uh, Travis ATM when it got 60 right there, right? So there was some of that that you didn't like. And then, you know, if you remember at the time, I don't think he had a run longer than 20 yards that is, is last year at Alabama. So, you know.


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[Assistant] I didn't love that aspect. Now, I still didn't give him enough credit for how big and powerful he is and how many times he can make a four yard run where you go, he really should have got no yards or one yard right there. But, you know, at the same time, yes, some of those things that


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[Assistant] There was a little bit of a, you know, uprising for the, uh, the guy behind him and Warren a little at one point. And I think that was because what they saw, his ability to kind of,


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[Assistant] Is a little more explosive or immediate than Najee Harris and, you know, again, that's where you get a balance and that's where it is different between college, the NFL, you know, just because a guy is really fast in college doesn't mean it's always really fast in the NFL.


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[Assistant] And now that's the NFL. It's a bigger game and guys, you're out of position less. That's where the size and breaking tackles comes into play more maybe than college football. And that's where you get to kind of gauge this whole process.


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[Assistant] I'm wrong. Williams is better. Williams is more made for the audience. Williams is exactly what we're talking about.


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[Assistant] Right. Williams, you'd watch next to Carter and you'd go, Oh my gosh, that was an unbelievable highlight run by Carter, but I wasn't giving enough credit to Williams ability to move the pile or bounce off a tackle and get four or five more yards. And then how that'll translate to the NFL.


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[Assistant] Michael Carter in college bounces off a tackle and you go, Oh, look, he's got pretty good power. But then he gets to the NFL and that same tackle happens. You go, no, he went down. He went down.


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[Assistant] Javante Williams runs through that tackle. And we saw that time and time again where, okay, maybe he didn't turn the corner for 50 yards like Michael Carter did, right? But again, that's again where the balance of it, okay, yeah, he's not as explosive, but there's a more of a power element to him. And that power, big people's game translates sometimes.


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[Assistant] I know, I'm pretty sure he was my honorable mention. Uhm, but yea, man, look at him, and, you know, it's again, it's guys like Ramondre Stevenson, right?


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[Assistant] Where we go, this is why running backs don't get drafted in the top 20. Cause you can get a Romandre Stevenson and go, that's one of the better running backs in the NFL. And he's in the 7th round. Yea. Right? So, that, that's where he was in the 7th round. He was 7th pick. I think he was like the 4th or 5th round somewhere in that category. I do have it right here, yea. He was 4th, late 4th or 5th. He was 4th round, yea. Pick.


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[Assistant] They're both awesome. They are. Kenneth Walker's more my cup of tea.


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[Assistant] You know, Breece Hall is a straight liner, like we saw. Catch a swing pass out of the backfield from some Zach Wilson or get a toss sweep, right? And he would just straight line outrun you. He had incredible speed. Walker's got a little bit more of everything as far as a running backs concerned. Walker also.


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[Assistant] I can go 70 yards to the house, like we saw Brice Hall do. But Walker had better change of directional skills and Walker is...


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[Assistant] He's one of the more physical runners in all of football already. That's where he really caught my eye. Again, you know, how long that'll last? I don't know, but we have to look at this and just go, these are four year rentals. Stop worrying about what he might look like in year eight because he probably won't be on your team.


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[Assistant] Spiller, big guy, right? Just lacked a little bit of explosive, explosive ability and acceleration that you'd like out of the top running back. So that was really what kept him off my top five.


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[Assistant] And, you know, that's more realistic life in the NFL. And then, you know, the guy we're missing there, who, uhm, is the guy from LSU, Ty Davis Price. Oh yea, Ty Davis Price. So you had him. I had him, I believe, as my third running back. You had him five. You had him five.


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[Assistant] Uh oh. See? This is what happens when you're worried about wearing yellow pants and stuff. Maybe you did have.


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[Assistant] Hey boss, boss, they're making me look bad on my own podcast. No, it gives us an opportunity.


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[Assistant] It's hard to get back into it. It is. It is. It's hard. He's got, he'll get another crack this year. We know how Shanahan is. He's gonna, you know, he's, he's gonna keep McCaffrey fresh. He's got Elijah Mitchell. He'll add this guy in the mix too. And hey, I, you know, I don't lie. I mean,


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[Assistant] Running back, you know, it's a position that certainly Shanahan has given me some pointers on throughout my years, you know, and things to look at and what to like and whatever else. And, uh, yeah, I mean, he was a guy that I wasn't shocked that Shanahan took him.


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[Assistant] Like in that running back conversation, the middle rounds last year, I kept going, gosh, it's going to be, it's got to be pierced to the LSU kit. You know, just, that's the kind of guy he likes. No nonsense, downhill, smash mouth.


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[Assistant] Hey, I've designed this play for this hole to be right here and I need you to go through it at full speed and you know, he values that ability and running backs maybe more than, than other teams do.


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[Assistant] But see, those are the other guys, those are the guys, yep, those are the guys we're talking about here. Where...


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[Assistant] You know, we go, man, there's not a lot of big playability. Look, he never runs for 35 or 40 yard, more than 40 yard gain in college football. Great. Great. Great. Okay. Right.


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[Assistant] But, you know, you realistically go, how many running backs really run for more than 40 yard runs in the NFL anyways? Unless it's just the Red Sea parts. I understand if it's like the biggest hole ever, and you just need to run straight.


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[Assistant] You know, yeaah, there's a little bit of a hole, but the hole closes fast. Now there's a linebacker in there at the two yard point. You're gonna run him over, you're gonna break his ankles to get a few more yards. How's it gonna go? That's life in the NFL. Colleges, there's more space, and it allows you to be tricked by the sexiness of times, and I know I've been tricked by it before a few times.


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[Assistant] Like, Isaiah Pacheco, it's hard. Nobody blocked for him, you know, for four years, right? I mean, you know me, I've told stories, I had friends in Jersey who were always like, man, this is Isaiah Pacheco, Isaiah Pacheco, he's got the greatest three yard run highlight film you've ever seen in your life, right? So, it's hard to see the full skill set off of that too.


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[Assistant] You know, yea, you see her run every now and then, but you're just like, well, this is against this team. And it just happened from here. So you don't know what to do there. You know, that, that's where it can be tough. Certainly. You know, and again, I think that is going into taking away, like you're talking about, you know, the production aspect of it, the sexiness aspect of it.


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[Assistant] No, let's just get into the build, you know, the mindset in which he runs and plays with, and then how it translates in the NFL, I think is, uh, yeaah, more of a bigger conversation than the stats all the time that we have.


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[Assistant] Well, if you look at the top running backs in the sport right now, right?


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[Assistant] I mean, we talk about Josh Jacobs, such a bigger, thicker human being than people realize. And he's, he's 5'10", and I believe, and Pete can look this up and maybe send it to you.


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[Assistant] 228 coming out, 225. You know, it's a sledgehammer. People don't realize how thick he is until you see him in person. Same with Nick Chubb, right? We know Derrick Henry's a giant, right? Saquon Barkley.


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[Assistant] Another guy, you know, yeaah, he's got a rocket up his ass, but if you saw him in person, you'd go, damn, okay, yeaah, you're right, I can't tackle Saquon Barkley. He's not, you're not as thick as he is. Christian McCaffrey? McCaffrey's a little different, right? Maybe a little bit of a, in a smaller package. Dalvin Cook, maybe too.


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[Assistant] But, what do they have that makes up for that little element of maybe not the power that the other guys we just talked about? They have incredible quicks, right? And acceleration, and there's something else that makes them special in their own right.


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[Assistant] And I think that's what we're looking at and, you know, some of them have a both. You know, like we're talking about with Nick Chubb, he's kind of got a both. He's kind of got the power can run you over and can run for 70 yards. Jonathan Taylor is another one that's like that. We can't forget about him. He was hurt last year, but he's one of the best running backs in the game too.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I stopped getting so obsessed with maybe just some of the space guys and all that. And whoa, he's so fast running through that hole. And just instead of going, wait, that hole is not going to be that big in an NFL game other than one time the whole year.


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[Assistant] That's an overrated aspect. He's not wrong in questioning me that. Now listen, there's still some, let's not forget, the guys we were talking about that were the two best running backs last year, both ran 4-3. So, speed is still really important. That can make you special.


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[Assistant] The 4-3 guy who can run for an 80-yard touchdown but can't play with any contact balance or ever get you tough yards is not as good as Damien Pearce who runs 4-6 but has incredible acceleration and every time he gets hit the pile goes forward 4 or 5 more yards, right?


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[Assistant] That has more value. I think we're getting there to finally explaining this the right way. I think I'm getting there.


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[Assistant] Compared to the other skills. Yeaah, I mean, a ton. A ton. There's definitely some runners in this, this process where you go through and you just go, oh my gosh, I mean.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Damn, he missed a hole. Oh, what a stupid cut. So that definitely goes into this. The really good running backs almost never miss a hole.


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[Assistant] And almost have a sense of where it's like, whoa, how did he even see that hole? That wasn't even there and he kind of made the cut.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like feeling it about to open, right? So definitely. And then, yes, the balance and all that, certainly. And I think that's what I'm trying to talk about here is, you know, another guy that's in my head here, Mr. Titan named Theo. All the homies are in your head. I'm, I'm, I'm trying...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, not to fall in love with that aspect as much and that's where the balance and the contact balance is crucial.


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[Assistant] You know, again, that's where you just get into when you, when I evaluate myself or the good running backs in football, that's what they have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unless it's just the fastest guy in football or the quickest guy in football.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The other ones have the ability like Derek Henry or Nick Chubb to run through a hole. Oh, a linebacker hit me on the shoulder. Okay. It knocked me off kilter a little, but I can keep going. Right. Oh, I got hit by this guy on the arm or the thigh. I'm a little off balance, but I got 10 more yards before I hit the ground. And that's huge. It's huge in the NFL and has great value.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, man, that was a lot of carries, you know, dot to where I know you hear me say, Hey, it's a four or five year rental, but that was one where you worried about like, man, maybe you're three, maybe you're two. This guy might not be the same. Who knows? Maybe in year one, he might not even look the same as the way he's carried the football. So, uh, I look at that more than wear and tear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I've been doing what I've been doing this year too, and I told Pete, I've been doing like a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is how I help myself through the process. I go through and I've been doing kind of a loose top 15.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I do kind of a loose as I go and oh, this guy, I put like a check or something just to go, Hey, this guy's in the running for the top 15. And then when I kind of get done with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I then, you know, go back, read my notes. Okay, wait, which ones did I really like? And of course I have a feel in my brain already for the ones that were the best ones. And then I try to kind of condense it, you know, from, from that point on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'd have to, it'd almost have to be like an icing on the cake type of thing. Or my team is in a really good spot, and I can, uhm, afford to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, take this chance, right? Like the Eagles, alright? Let's get into it.


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[Assistant] You know, there's one guy that's number one, but I'm gonna put the other guy in the tier with him because it's special, so I'm not gonna just let him...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, be discredited for what he does, uh, and we'll talk about him here in a minute. Yeah, we'll get to him in a second, but your number one running back in this class is... Is Bijan Robinson. Yes, Bijan Robinson is special. It's rare that a guy comes around with this complete of a package, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and what do you mean, what I mean by that more than anything? I mean, first off,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And all of that, but it's not just like, okay, yeah, he can run. It's, it's.


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[Assistant] It's the way he runs and cuts and re-accelerates and stops and then, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can go again. First off, can do it every- do it all. Like, and what I mean by that is jump cuts, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he can, he can get in a position like a Barry Sanders and make you like fall over one way, or he could go, I'm running really fast this way and I need to make a right hand turn and I'm just going to plant my left foot in the ground and go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not going to break down and try to break your ankles. I'm just going to be kind of a slasher and just hit it and go and never lose speed. So he can kind of do both.


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[Assistant] To where, like, an outside zone team's gonna go, oh, I like him. And then the team that goes, ooh, we like to pull our guards and have our guy read, read the balk and set up the balk. And they're gonna go, oh, he can do that too. And then the team that goes, oh, well, I'd like to throw the ball, you know, 90 to 100 times and we're running back out of the backfield for the year. Oh, well, he can do that too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's where you get into it. He's a natural that way, right? So in space, he's like, wow, the way he moves, accelerates, makes people miss. But then the way he catches.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The way he runs Rouse, the way he adjusted the ball, and then has the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where there's a number of plays where you go, well there's no hole, but he sticks his head down and he gets four yards. Or he makes three or four people miss, and now, okay, I've got about the 10 yard mark, 12 yard mark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, there's nothing else anymore. I'm just going to hit it, hit it hard, lower my shoulders, make that 12 yard run into a 16 yard run. Cause I just said, you know what? Forget it. There's nowhere else to go. I'm not going to dance. I'm just going to put my head down and get hard yards. That's where he's special. So there's like, there's no weakness to his game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, that's the big thing, let alone the special aspect to his game is, is pretty damn special.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like the jump cuts and power, not as much good of the backfield.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not the slash-ability that this guy had. And you did have, you were high on Jacob's. I love Jacob's. You had him number one coming out of Alabama. I love Jacob's. I'm gonna tell you, the name I wrote, and I wrote holy shit next to it because I couldn't believe I was right, I wrote LaDani and Tomlinson. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's that type of guy to me. Thousand yard rusher, thousand yard receiver could be 28 touchdowns in a season, you know, 15 rushing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 10 receiving, right? That kind of, he can be that kind of guy. That's really where he's really got a special, you know, part of him. But yeah, I mean, that's not, that's not a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, it's, it's like, right, so Montgomery had that great ability, but no speed to go along with it. This guy's got both. I mean, his, his Excel, like, you know, again, he's one of those guys when you...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you first watch his first car, you go, whoa, that was different. That, that hit the hole a little more aggressive than the last 10 guys I just watched, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wrote to go off of this, like, his ability to make people miss is off the charts good. You know, I wrote, I watched Texas and I didn't even realize he was this elusive watching on TV. Breaks, ankles, slashes, bobs, weaves, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Vision and ability to set up the blocks off the charts. Incredible hips and feet. Runs with power.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Runs with power when he has to, legs move on contact, certainly capable to push the pile, and then I wrote jump cuts are the best I've seen since Saquon Barkley. Right? That's where he can be in the hole between the right guard and the center.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Saekwon was a lot like this, except Saekwon had the little gear that you're talking about that you're like sometimes you wish you saw from Beijing. You go, Saekwon had that. So, I'm gonna say that. He's better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All around player than either one of the guys from last year. Now you know I love Kenneth Walker.


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[Assistant] Kenneth Walker's ability to be a sledgehammer between the tackles is greater than Bijon Robinson and maybe his straight long speed is better. But his ability to make people miss


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Bob and we through traffic between the tackles and all that. It's not quite to this capacity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He does it so smooth and so easily, and then where Bijon has an edge too, is again the pass catching department. When you watch Bijon run routes, you go, well, he could play receiver if he wanted to. He'd be, you'd go, oh, he's going to be an NFL, you know, slot receiver. He could do that. Uh, so that's another part where I just look at him and go, oh my gosh, he has just tremendous capabilities.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he can lose a play every now and then because of that, but that, it was nothing to like Barry, like to Barry Sanders, or even say Quan Barkley. There's more of an element here with this guy of, wait, nothing's here, I will put my head down if I have to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where Barkley, that was the one thing you were like, ah, I wish you would just sledgehammer it every now and then. It's always a little dancey, let's go for the big play, right? So I don't want people to think


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Listen, he's definitely one of the top 15, okay? That's one thing, that's for sure. He is. I don't know if I'd go, I haven't seen the whole draft yet to say that he's top 3 or 5. But it's hard to say that he's definitely not one of the most talented offensive players in the draft, for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mindframe. I don't know if I could pull the trigger like I said, if I had a, if I'm in the unusual scenario of most of these top tens where there's more than one hole on your team to fill, I'd go, I can't do it.


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[Assistant] There'll be a good running back in round two or three. Yeah, he's not going to be this guy, but man, the other two positions we need to fill, we're not even going to come close to being able to fill them in round two or three. So we got to do de-tackle right here, right? There's a huge drop-off, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So where, this is where, you know, the rich get richer. At number 10, if I'm the Eagles, I mean, that would be the team where I'd go, oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Eagles, uuuh, me and the Giants fans are gonna go, duh, the Eagles got Bijon Robinson, oh my gosh. What do you do now? Hurts, Bijon, Goddard, AJ Brown, Devontae Smith, like good luck doing any of it. So that's the scenario I'm talking about. Every now and then there's a team in the top 10 that's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're not supposed to be here, but we got here from some prior trade and we don't have that many holes to fill so we can do this and I feel like they're in that


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[Assistant] Right. Well, and you know, you know, to what you're saying here, the guys on the right, if you're watching on our NBC Sports YouTube page that have the options not exercised, so many of them have had injuries, right? That's what led to the option not being exercised. I know it wasn't like, you know, across the board there, but there's a good amount of them. Sony, Michelle, Rashad, Penny, David Wilson.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Clyde Edwards Hilaire, right? Doug Martin, I don't believe did. He did not.


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[Assistant] David Wilson, did I say him already? So, you know, that's, that's the risk you take, but those guys on the left are.


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[Assistant] That was a special crew right there. You know, that was a crew right there where unlike the ones on the right,


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[Assistant] You know, and I know we have way back when Trent Richardson was drafted in the top five, Leonard Fournette was number four pick, I believe, right? Uhm, but yea, Leonard Fournette, I would throw in that group with the guys on the left to go, they were like, these guys were viewed as freaks of nature, like, oh my gosh, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These guys don't come around very often that look like this and can run like that.


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[Assistant] Do you envision them being a team to do that? To draft a running back that high?


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[Assistant] But, it's an interesting thought. I mean, it is a team that's based on run games.


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[Assistant] We don't need to go top of the board. I don't think that's in their DNA to make that type of move. I would expect that that's where we're going to see them go something de-tackle, something like that. Now we get into like, I think realistically, I think it's going to be somewhere more in the teens or something there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and who that is gonna be, you know, that, that's where I don't know. I mean, the teens, when you get into it, you got the Titans at 11. You got the Texans. They're not gonna do it. I don't think the Jets are gonna do it. I don't think the Patriots are gonna do it. I don't think the Packers are gonna do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wouldn't imagine the commanders are gonna do what they got right now. Are the Steelers gonna go?


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[Assistant] Well, I would worry about like, what I would worry about is like your lions at 18.


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[Assistant] Right? That's, I could see that going. Your team that's run-based. Right? I like DeAndre Swift. Uh, but he's getting into what? This is year four for him? Option territory, I think? Maybe? Yeaah. He wasn't a first round pick, he was an early second.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, but either way, this is year four. I could see that maybe being, you know, a team that thinks about moving along. If he's on the board at 21 for the Chargers.


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[Assistant] I would go, uh oh, yeaah, he could end up there with the Chargers and Justin Herbert.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but nobody's not gonna not like this kit. It's just about whether you want to spend one of your high picks on the running back position and then have the risk of what we talked about. The bad stories are the guys that were on the right on that graphic where, yeaah, they're hurt and you, first round picks were wasted on them and yeaah.


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[Assistant] They didn't get what they wanted other than Josh Jacobs out of the, out of the crew.


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[Assistant] My only thing is, I don't see them doing that and having a franchise tag on Tony Pollard. Right? That's where I just go, that seems like too many, too many assets in the running back department. Right? It's not a crazy thought.


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[Assistant] I-I'm gonna say though, he's gonna be gone by 26. You know, I don't know if he'll go as top 10. I would have bet- if you made me bet, I'm gonna say he doesn't go-


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[Assistant] I, I would think so. I mean, the Chargers, gosh, if the Ravens, if he's there for the Ravens at 22, I mean, yeah, that could be them, the next pick. I mean, so there's, there's definitely some teams there that you could see the, them, them draft in Bijan Robinson, who is phenomenal and the best running back in this draft. I just want to make sure, sure. I know we have two tiers here, but Bijan Robinson is the best running back in the draft.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Plain and simple. The guy in his chair that we're going to talk about next is really, really damn good. Alright? He just...


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[Assistant] Got better speed than Bijon Robinson straight ahead, right? Acceleration?


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[Assistant] It's not much different. You know, they're both in a similar range of pretty damn special when it comes to that department.


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[Assistant] Now, this guy, he is speed and make you miss and outrun you and make you look silly and everything that way and that's where he's awesome. And of course he's got the, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, this is, we're talking about another guy like Ambijon Robinson, and this guy, you even see it more than Ambijon Robinson, who can really be a receiving threat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And like a McCaffrey be, oh, tailback one play, next play be back in the slot, whatever. Right? But I'll say this. Alright, here's my first big comment about him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He reminds me of a Dalvin Cook, right? He's maybe not as quick, I mean as thick as Dalvin Cook, he's a little smaller, or the other guy I wrote


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he's Travis ATN. I honestly thought his film was better than Travis ATN. But ATN is a guy that again has about 15, 17 pounds on him. So there's a little difference there as far as, you know, how comfortable teams are you, are you, you know, with that size.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's bigger than your typical third down running back, and his speed and acceleration is, I mean it's off the charts good. His top end speed, like I said, like we were talking about,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it's probably the best in the draft, out of the running back position. When you just talk about, has a seam 80 yards to the house, catch a shallow cross or something out of the backfield, turn it upfield, uhm, that's where he, he definitely


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's going to the left, he's going to the left, he's going to the left, and he kinda goes to the left.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he can just stop and go to the right, but set it up to where the defender moves with him and that move to the left, and now the guy in front of him's in a great position just to wall him off and he cuts off his ass. His vision, I thought was off the charts good. In fact, I thought it was really probably the best in the draft altogether, right? You know, you kind of hit on it. His change of direction,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is, is up there with like, you know, as good as you're gonna see, ever, in anything, right? So that, that's where he is. His change of direction's really more violent and aggressive, even than B. John Robinson, I thought. You know? Yeaah, yeaah, that's who, I thought they were- Just a hair more explosive in that department than, than B. John Robinson.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's, it's, it's real home run hitting speed there. And, and, you know, we talked about the pass catcher, but I'm guessing the reason he was at Georgia Tech and not at one of the big schools is the size element, right? That's probably scary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. But, I mean, you watch the highlights. F***ing dude brings it.


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[Assistant] I mean, he's like our man Devin Witherspoon from Illinois, like nobody told him he's 199, like he thinks he's 254 the way he brings it.


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[Assistant] So, I don't look at it and go, oh man, there's a, you know, a real physicality element that's missing from this guy. And I think he's gonna be able to run with a little more power and physicality than people think when it's all said and done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and then he's got, like you said, great patience, changing the speeds to let plays develop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, like you said, whether it's slowing down and hopping, waiting for the blockers to get there, or, you know, he can go, oh wait, there's the hole, whoom, go, or he can get the ball and he kind of dances, oh wait, there's no hole, and he kind of just waits for it to show up, and then he hits the gas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, him and Bijon Robinson, they both had that ability that I think were, you know, a notch above everybody else in the draft in that department. But yeah, I thought ultimately he's better than ATN coming out. Reminds me of Dalvin Cook.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Except I think Gibbs has more change of direction ability than, than Dalvin Cook. But maybe not, you know, the overall power Cook had and physicality to move the pile or lower his head and do it and all that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's a first round talent. He really is. In the old days, I think he's a first rounder. Now, I wrote top 40. I don't know exactly, uh, but either way, whoever gets him is gonna get a Christian McCaffrey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The type of football player here and it's gonna change their offense in a big way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I underst, when I first started watching, you know, I started, I think, I was thinking Alvin Kamara. I know where he was going in that thought there. Dual threat running back and do it all. But I, I want to say this to our man, MMA born sender.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gibbs is more explosive than Alvin Kamara coming out. I just wanna make sure that's clear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alvin Kamara could not do some of this. Now Kamara was special in contact balance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that, his contact balance was insane.


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[Assistant] Alvin Kamara was one of those guys where you'd go every now and then you'd go, man, would he just run straight and outrun that guy? Cause he didn't outrun people as many, but he would, you know, make somebody miss and then somebody would hit him and he'd roll off them and you know, run for seven more yards and then somebody would be dragging on them and he'd get a few more. That's where he was special. This guy's not quite that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But this guy has way more home run hitting ability. And like we talked about with Bijan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, it's both ways of making you miss, right? Where he can make you miss breaking your ankles wise, or he can make you miss where he makes you turn and run and you go, oh no, he's gonna try to outrun me. And then he can just stick his foot in the ground and make a right hand turn and never lose one mile per hour in his running.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that to me is rare. A lot of guys don't have the ability or the ability to do both.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You see how like, he's so, I like it. You see the feet and just how he accelerates. And then along with it, it's not just a straight liner, he's got hips and wiggle to it too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he can set you up with body language where you think, oh yeaah, he's going this way. And then like Allen Iverson with a crossover, he gets everything going one way and he gets the body shaking that way and all of a sudden it's WOMP! He goes the other way on you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More than that in the NFL. You know, he probably was trying to play that line of wait, I want to run four, three, two, and let me maybe cut five or six pounds here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Where in the NFL season, he'll be 208, 207, right? And just a little more muscle and power to take the every down beating that the NFL has for running backs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's all that matters there. I mean that's really at the end of the day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I'm, I'm, I'm shocked with some of these guys that there wasn't like, he would have been a guy like when I looked at his numbers, I was like, Oh, well, I wonder what his three cone drill was. Cause it just looks like it'd be natural.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But man, not many of these running backs ran the three cone drill. Uhm, which was surprising to me for a guy like him. It just looks like he's so greasy in the hip department that it wouldn't even be a problem. But don't get it messed up, man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This guy's superstar. He could be a big time football player. It's a little different than Bijon Robinson, right? He's a smaller type guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey, we see like Aaron Jones at what, 205 right now in Green Bay. I mean, he's running for a thousand yards every year. This guy's more explosive than that and has more power than Aaron Jones. So don't let the 199 fool you at the end of the day. I'm, I'm thinking more Dalvin Cookish right here with this player when it's ultimately


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was a bit of a shock, your number three running back. You know, Rashaun Johnson, okay?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It would not be a shock if you sat down and watched film with me. Alright?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know. In base level, you think, how could the backup running back for the guy that's number one be the number three running back in all of college football? It's easy. It happens a lot. Don't be crazy. We just saw a graphic, right? Trent Riverson and Mark Ingram, they're on the same team, right? Michael Carter and Gervonta Williams. Exactly right. How about Ricky Williams and Priest Holmes back in the day?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ricky Williams was playing fullback for Priest Homes for one year. Like, and say that in your brain. What? One of the greatest running backs ever had a block for somebody else? So who ended up being one of the greatest running backs ever too in the NFL? But yes, this kid's a real deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he's a little different, okay, than of course the two we just talked about. The two that we just talked about have three rockets up their ass and, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, seven rudders to make right hand turns and cut on a dime, right? I don't know why I went with the boat reference on the rudder. But you know what I mean? You know, they can just go, the rudders can make them turn. File that one away. Alright, I'm filing it away, Mr. Yellow Pants. Alright, but this guy is not that. He's not gonna make people miss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's not gonna really break a lot of ankles. He will make people miss. Yes, he will. He will. Not the crossover like we're talking about that way. Go over them. He will go over them. He will run you over. And he's a little bit more of the guy that, you know, he's a slasher.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I said, and that's what I'm trying to explain to people listening out there without me getting up and you know, you don't want to watch me move or do anything like that. He's not going to break you down and do that crossover Allen Iverson stuff. But what he is going to do is like, you know, full speed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Little wiggle, nothing great, but stick his foot in the ground and put his head down and run you over. And then his acceleration, he's the biggest guys we've talked about at this point, he's 220, and his acceleration is real. It's right up there in the same class as Bijan Robinson and Gibbs when he takes off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I saw this kid hit the hole the first time, I went, damn, okay. This was like watching Gibbs or Bijan. I was going, okay, whoa, the hole is the same.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he just doesn't have the long speed. He's not that kind of guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But when you talk about tough, realistic NFL yards like we talk about, and a ton of great 10 and 12 and 15 type yard runs, he's going to be great at that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He really is. And he's, he's, he's an NFL starting running back. He just got stuck in a spot where he was behind a guy that's like a freak of nature that only comes around every now and then in Bijon Robinson, and he was at school with him.


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[Assistant] I mean, I love the guy. I mean, right away, size, it's easy, his speed, hits the hole fast, ability to accelerate top notch.


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[Assistant] You know, I'm big into the stick the foot in the ground thing. You know that by now.


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[Assistant] You know, and he can do it violently to make, like, defenders miss. So again, like I said, it's not the breaking down and shaking you that way. It's more of, I'm gonna, you think I'm gonna run through that hole so fast that you turn and run, and then I can kinda hit the brakes and cut off of it. Am I explaining that the right way? Yeah. Okay, good. I just wanna make sure I am.


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[Assistant] His toughness and physicality is the, another part that, you know, I would say he has that above the other two. He can move the pile and run over people at a little higher level and I'm guessing you realize that too as you're


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[Assistant] Running back for Chris Sims. It's crazy, right? I mean, it really is. Uhm, but he's, uh...


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[Assistant] Well, I think there's, you know, like you said, I don't think there's a ton of draft talent there, but Sarkeesian and them, they know what they're doing, but they're still...


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[Assistant] So many runs of like, well, there really isn't that much there, and whoa, he got 10 or he got 12. You know, again, to where you could piece it together. Definitely. And, you know,


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[Assistant] You know, you start to get into this and you know, other running backs are going to talk about it or even Jameer Gibbs. They can sit there and go, well damn, they had some big holes too. Right? So, you know, it's, it's, it certainly wasn't anything that I found like, oh wow. Right? I'm, I will say I'm keen to this.


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[Assistant] If holes are just opening up and guys are just running straight.


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[Assistant] And I'm going whoop-de-f**king-doo, right? That, that, I'm not like, oh wow, oh god, he had, he had 400 yards rushing. He never had to make one turn or make a cut. Like, so, I'm, you know me, I'm never into just letting that overtake my, my thoughts over the big picture.


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[Assistant] Well, that's where, and two, I think that's where these three guys, they're maybe not gonna get the credit they deserve in some of these ones that you're even talking about, right? Now there's a skill to that, what you're talking about, and that's where I'm gonna lead you here, is like, there is definitely some runs where you watch these top three guys go and you go, oh,


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[Assistant] Well, that was got through the hole, that was good. And then as you watch other guys as you go along, you start to realize, oh, well, wait.


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[Assistant] That other, those other guys got through those holes cause they're really fast. Like these guys, this hole's the same for this guy here. He just can't get through it. So there is the piecing that together to what you're talking about too, where you see some 12 yard runs.


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[Assistant] And you go, whew, man, he flew through that hole. And then you see that same type of hover running back later on in the day and you go, they got three yards because he didn't have that extra gear or the ability to accelerate through there quite to the same level as these top guys.


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[Assistant] I talked to them on pod, we had some good talks the other day. There's good times and bad times sometimes.


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[Assistant] Yes. Yes. No doubt. Another line I'm gonna throw you.


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[Assistant] More I watch, more I like this kid, he is gonna wear out defenders through four quarters. Yeaah. That's the other thing too, he didn't even get a chance to do that. He's gonna be a guy that teams are gonna play and you're gonna go,


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[Assistant] I gotta take him on one more time, and he's not, he's the kind of guy that like, he kinda likes it. You can tell he likes it. He likes punishing you. So, yea, that's where, you know, and that's where I got into, this guy's a big time NFL running back.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, he's not a jump cut guy like we talked about, but he's more of a slasher, but he's violent, and his acceleration is real. And his hips are better than I gave it credit for originally. You know? He, to me, I wrote Joe Mixon. Ooh. Isaiah Pacheco type of runner. That's who he is in my opinion.


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[Assistant] It, it, it's not gonna be a lot of, you know...


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[Assistant] Jiggle and wiggle, it's gonna be, ooh, I see that hole, and I'm gonna go through it a million miles per hour, and if you wanna get in my way, then so be it. But you're gonna pay for getting in my way, and that's where I love Rashaun Johnson.


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[Assistant] I don't know where, what we've seen here typically with running back, right, is what?


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[Assistant] If somebody doesn't go somewhere in the late twenties, it doesn't really seem to happen again then until the third round. Right? It's rare. I don't, I don't feel like we see a ton of second round running backs every now and then. But Pacheco would, I mean, not Pacheco, Rashaun Johnson would be a guy that I would certainly think is


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[Assistant] I wouldn't be mad if somebody took him, you know, in the second round, by any stretch of the imagination.


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[Assistant] That's how it kind of works out. It's almost like quarterback. It's like those one or two three really highly viewed ones go somewhat early in the draft and then there's a Wait, we think this pack of running backs is kind of all close together. So We're not going to draft them in the second third round anything like that. So we'll see where it goes


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[Assistant] Like, a little ball of muscle, Sean Tucker. That's what he really is, really. I mean, smaller, really thick, dense, powerful looking body, right? Almost like a guy we showed up. The name I wrote down originally when I first saw him was a guy we just showed in the graphic a few minutes ago, Doug Barton.


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[Assistant] Right, do you remember Doug Barham of the 10-way Buccaneers? I think he led the NFL in rushing one year. The human bowling ball. Yea, the human bowling ball. Right, it's a little bit like that. I mean...


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[Assistant] The change of direction movements, you watch Syracuse right off the bat. I mean, you talk about breaking ankles, this guy can break ankles in serious ways. He's got unbelievable jump, jump cuts, you know, and also hips are really good too. So not only, you know, that's another part of like,