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[Assistant] And everybody loves comparisons this time of year, not just us, but I think the personnel people inside the buildings as well. Does it help him or hurt him that there have been first round corners from Michigan State here recently?


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[Assistant] Alright, moving up to number three, and this is, I really like your list because you're either higher or lower on these corners than most, so there's some pretty good talking points here. Julian Love, Notre Dame. Yeah, Julian Love.


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[Assistant] Did you notice things on tape that others saw and docked him for that you had to get yourself passed?


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[Assistant] I can't say that I did. Cause it's common to see him outside the top 5.


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[Assistant] And replacing him on campus in South Bend a big deal this spring. Shameless plug. Chris, Doug Flutie and I will be calling the spring game next Saturday.


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[Assistant] Awesome segue, perhaps the best I've seen here in our four or five times. It was unintended. Because up next, up next to the corner, we move to two and go to Clemson Trayvon Mullin.


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[Assistant] For a cynic who would say, okay, they were up by three or four touchdowns every game. They had three first round picks in the front seven. He ought to be able to look good back there. What's your response to that?


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[Assistant] Why is he not worth a pick in the teens or early 20s then?


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[Assistant] How sold are you that he is a firm number one in trade line well and can't catch him at number two?


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[Assistant] You talked about with the defensive ends, how some of the guys have traits, but just, and their issues can be coached out of them, or some of the traits you just can't coach into them. A guy who holds a lot, is that something that he could be coached and let that go?


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[Assistant] For everyone with us on YouTube and can see a screen, let's throw the rankings back up, one through seven. At number one, Greedy Williams, LSU, two, Trayvon Mullen, Clemson.


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[Assistant] And then it goes down to Tier 2, you say there. Number 3, Julian Love, Notre Dame. 4, Justin Lane, Michigan State. 5, Byron Murphy, Washington. 6, Rockieson Temple. 7, DeAndre Baker, Georgia. Tier 1 to Tier 2, what is that and how big of a difference is that?


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[Assistant] Right. Right. Uh, and who is, uh, just because I think it's so important right now, who's the best slot cover corner in that software?


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[Assistant] Other niches they're gonna have to get into, uh, which corner you think is best at covering a really, really big wide receiver, or maybe even a tie down.


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[Assistant] Okay, good. I want to make sure. I can blabber sometimes. And we went through the top seven corners and we're looking forward to next week doing it with the interior defensive.


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[Assistant] That's probably the most frequently asked question and I never have a great answer for it. Uhm, you know, they're both great quarterbacks and they're, they're both can, can put the ball wherever they pretty much want to. So, uhm, there's a lot of similarities, but you know, going from anytime you change quarterbacks, it's going to be an adjustment. So getting back on the, on the same page with Derek is what I'm, what I'm interested in now.


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[Assistant] I don't understand medium rare. I don't understand that. That's how you eat a dead animal on the side of the road. I don't understand that. Things still breathe in a medium rare.


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[Assistant] Oh baby, we're here, we're gonna get into the steak talk in a minute. For all those out there that are listening, okay, that was me and Mike Florio who had this debate the last few days, okay. It's been about, we have a bet going on, me and Florio. I thought Antonio Brown would be traded after his March 17th


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[Assistant] Uh, uh, bonus that he's supposed to get. Okay. He's saying before. So we got into that, we're betting dinner, and that's where the steak thing came from. But either way, we are here, Chris Sims, unbuttoned, thanks for coming on, joining, listening, whatever the hell you're doing today.


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[Assistant] Hey, if you want to get this, youtube.com slash NBC Sports or wherever you download your podcast, I will be there available. And I'm sitting next to one of my dudes right here, Paulie Bermeister. Okay, what's up, man? Great to see you, man. Come on.


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[Assistant] I know, that's where it comes from. Exactly right. Let's work on this one more time, the handshake thing, right here, there, and then lock it. Bam. And then let go? Then let go. Or you can snap at the end, but that'll give you some street cred out there, okay? Very good.


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[Assistant] We all do. We all do. I had to have somebody teach me that at some point as well. I'm not as cool as I may or may not look. Uh, but either way, glad to have you here, man. Paul played quarterback in college, went to Iowa. Where'd you grow up? I don't even know that.


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[Assistant] Awesome. Iowa people are good people. I got an experience with Kyle Orton, who is one of my favorites, being from the state of Iowa as well. He went to Purdue for college, but I'm down with that. And we've known each other for a few years. Exactly. So this is good.


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[Assistant] Throw the red flags out there and go, Chris Sims, that is the dumbest damn thing I've heard all day, and this is why, don't be scared of that, okay?


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[Assistant] In, I mean, like, honestly speaking, you have more draft credentials as far as covering the event than I do. I mean, you worked a lot of years for the NFL Channel and NFL.com, right?


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[Assistant] Right? It's a new age. I mean, we are. And that's what we're gonna do. That's what every Wednesday podcast is going to be here with Chris Sims on Button. When Paul Burmeister is here with me, we're doing draft deep dive stuff every Wednesday. That's where we're here in Central Park and NBC Sports.


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[Assistant] We're gonna talk about that, so expect that. And it is for more of the nuanced listener. But, like really, it's those segments that you're talking about that kinda I felt like...


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[Assistant] Made the jump off for the draft where people, they, I think the NFL realized and everyone was like, Whoa, right. There's kind of an audience here that wants to hear all the nuts and bolts and in the weeds type of conversations about football players. And, uh, you know, here we are now talking about it nonstop.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it is. It's unbelievable. Uh, we're gonna have a good show. We're breaking down QBs here today, okay? We're, I'm gonna give you my top eight. And I went with eight really just because I thought these eight kinda separate themselves.


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[Assistant] Uh, or as we call him in my house, this is what we can swear on this podcast, The Big F**k. Yes, he will be coming on today. Uh, in about 45 minutes we'll break him on and he's going to talk about a few quarterbacks.


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[Assistant] Really, like, who knows what Big Phil's gonna talk about, because he's starving to talk, so when he gets a chance, he's just gonna be blabbering everything, so that'll be fun either way coming up.


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[Assistant] Uh, schedule when you're coming out in the draft either way and then just get to that point. First of all, you know, the Kyler Murray conversation with Charlie Casserly is talking about out there, right? He's talking about, you know, interviews weren't good, right? Uhm, on the board wasn't good. Leadership is not good. Uh, I'm probably missing one other thing that he brought up as an example.


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[Assistant] I find it suspect a little bit. Why? And I don't necessarily know if it's suspect. I'm not trying to challenge Charlie Casserly, because I know he knows people within the NFL.


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[Assistant] This is where I find it's suspect. And this is the first thing I thought of. Who's using him as a pawn right here to maybe, to maybe get negative propaganda out there for a Kyle and Murray. That's where my mind went first. I just find it very rare.


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[Assistant] With, if somebody had that many bad check marks against them, this day and age we live in, I feel like we would have heard some of these things. I know, I feel like I would have heard some of these things, uh, leading up to the combine. So this is the first I'm hearing of it. Lincoln Riley came out today and kind of disputed it. Now I know he has a vested interest in the quarterback as well. Right.


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[Assistant] You know, I'll take Lamar Jackson last year. He wasn't getting the greatest reviews in the world. And Bobby Petrino didn't exactly put himself out on a limb and say, no, this is all wrong. He kind of danced around the issues and just, hey, Lamar Jackson played well for us when he was here. This was different, but go ahead. What was your take on the whole thing?


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[Assistant] Gonna pick them apart, no doubt about it. I think this is the other time, you know, this is the time of the year too, and this is for me personally, where I am like,


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[Assistant] Buyer beware when I talk to some of my friends or people I know around the NFL. I don't even get into do you like this guy or where's this guy gonna go if I'm talking to a front office guy or an agent or anything like that because


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[Assistant] It is propaganda time, and people are sometimes saying things negatively because they want a player to fall, maybe to them. You know, sometimes people might be lying to you about the interest a player is getting because they want you to tout that, oh, I'm hearing this guy's getting a lot of interest.


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[Assistant] There's a lot of BS from coaches, front office people, and agents. You gotta only, you can only trust the people you really trust that are close friends.


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[Assistant] Did you go through, like, the 15 minute media, I mean, uh, meeting the coaches and teams thing?


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[Assistant] No, no, no whiteboard. I'm watching this nitwit behind us fall down. Uh, but the, the, the, uh, so when did you meet with coaches? Did you get a chance to meet with coaches at all in your, in your day back in 1932? 19, almost 1994.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think there's no doubt about that. And just in my experience, and I come on, let's go up, we're going to go up to the whiteboard. Like my experience in doing that too.


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[Assistant] I mean. You gotta take this off. I know. I will. Hold on. I'll finish the story and then we'll walk out. The thing though that is interesting about teams do have different approaches and like the teams that I remember talked to me like, hey, some teams, it was just one guy dominated the conversation, right? It might have been the head coach or the offensive coordinator.


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[Assistant] He might have just wanted to get to know you. Then you go in the next team, and okay, now the head coach and the offense coordinator want to know specifics. You know, draw us your favorite play. Teach us your favorite play. How did the reads go? Okay, how did you pick up this blitz?


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[Assistant] Plus, you're in bedrooms, right? Right, yeaah. And there's other coaches in the background who are sitting there on the bed with their legs crossed and you're like,


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[Assistant] You know, they're, they're listening and you could tell they're processing, but they're not trying to get involved in talking almost like they're like these silent assassins in the background who are like doing a psychological breakdown. You want to be like, who is that guy back there that's shaking his head yes or no when I answer questions.


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[Assistant] You know, so all these things before we judge too harshly with kids or any of this process, they are kids. They really are. I know I thought I was a grown up when I was 22 or 23 years old and I knew every answer in the world. But now I look back at it and go, holy cow, you were so stupid, so immature and you knew nothing.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you're the, I'll be the prospect. I guess that would be the best way to do it. But like some of the, like just like one team I can remember specifically, I want to say it was the Green Bay Packers. They get up and draw us your favorite play, right? Okay. So first thing was, is I was like nervous about my drawing, right? Like I practiced my drawing before.


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[Assistant] I still do. I'm lefty, so we're writing challenged as is. But I get on the board and I'm gonna use my Texas


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[Assistant] Okay, I would go from there and then, you know,


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[Assistant] Here you got this guy, the back, we would call that a triangle because it kind of works as a triangle read. And it would be, okay,


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[Assistant] Zone defense, my zone defense, or even man to man, if you wanted to play the concept, it would go one.


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[Assistant] To two, to the six route, right, which is six is an in-cut, to the back out of the backfield for my check down. Okay. Alright. And then,


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[Assistant] And for me, I don't know how your were as any, any offenses. Pulse was always alert if we got cover four.


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[Assistant] Right? Quarters, a quarter safety. Four guys going deep. The two corners, the two safeties have a quarter of the field, but in quarters coverage, like the quarters, the quarter safeties are going to be a little more flat footed and not necessarily go deep. If somebody crosses their face, they're going to kind of sit on it and try to drive the ball. So quarters was an alert.


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[Assistant] Right, so, and this is, this is one of the issues of me being evaluated. I can tell you this right off the bat, where...


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[Assistant] There were certain blitzes where, I mean, John Gruden would go, why couldn't you pick up this blitz against Oklahoma? And I said, I don't know. But I was never taught.


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[Assistant] And I was never told I was doing anything wrong either. So you have to take those things into account before you blame the quarterback going, why didn't he re ID and pick up this blitz? Cause he wasn't told to, he wasn't told to, nobody taught him to that. That's not the quarterbacks fault. That's an offensive coordinator problem. That's a team problem. So it is evaluator. You do have to be careful about


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[Assistant] Throwing the quarterback in going, uh, he's not very smart. No, he might be smart, but he just wasn't taught how to do that, right? How difficult to do that.


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[Assistant] I don't know because Lincoln Riley could have been telling them the whole season. Hey, don't worry about this split. The offensive line has been taught how to pick it up. That's not your problem. You just worry about the coverage. So those are all things that where sometimes I hear these things like Kyle Murray. Oh, he wasn't good at the board where I want to go.


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[Assistant] Or do that and then give you, you know, teach you a play, ask you ten questions and then go back and go, hey, you know that play I taught you?


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[Assistant] Uh, but that's really what it is at the end of the day. I think we kind of covered it all. I don't have my earphones on. Are they happy back there? Do they want to see anything more? Cause this is a podcast. We don't have to just... You guys happy back there? They're very happy, Paul.


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[Assistant] Definitely, and yeaah, nothing personal to you on that. I wanna watch In Peace and Quiet for one. Two, I don't want us comparing notes because I want this to be natural and I want you to hopefully disagree with some of this stuff as we go along to where it's good natural discussion within that. So, you know, sorry, don't take it personal. We're still friends, alright?


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[Assistant] I've seen other guys down the list not as deep dive as these ones here that we're going to talk about, but I do feel like there was a...


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[Assistant] Gap after these eight compared to the next. And I know we're going to get deeper down the list here in the quarterback conversation as we get closer to the draft and all of that. But I thought these were the first, the first big eight to hit on.


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[Assistant] Oh, you got me thinking now. Hold on, I'm pulling up the teams, okay?


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[Assistant] I gotta, I gotta make sure here. So 8? I think I got him on this one. You might, you might.


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[Assistant] But yes, Will Greer, okay, everybody's gonna go out there and go, oh, what about all these stats? And he threw the ball all over the field at West Virginia and it's, you know, 37 touchdowns and eight interceptions or something close to that.


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[Assistant] That's great. I don't give a damn about that. It's about


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[Assistant] Kind of a frail player as far as in the pocket, not gonna jump out athletically. And I don't mean that like he's the worst athlete I've ever seen, but he doesn't do anything special that way. Now, I think the other thing I would talk about with Will Greer is throwing. I would classify him as a high effort thrower.


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[Assistant] Very few throws as I watched film and I watched four games on each of these guys where I went


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[Assistant] It's a lot of work for him to throw. When I look out and go, he would throw a six yard hitch route, right? So all those people were going, what the hell's a hitch route? Receiver runs six yards, he just turns back and looks at the receiver. I mean, the gifted quarterback in this draft can just sling it out there and not even think about it, right? Right. Will Greer was, he has a few, what I would say fundamental issues in throwing the ball.


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[Assistant] And also does not necessarily have the greatest arm in the world. I think those are the things that would worry me more than anything. I'm going to stand up here just to give a little example. And what I mean by high effort throw, there's two things that kind of bothered me about his throwing. First of all, he's a step in the bucket thrower. Okay. And what I mean by step in the bucket thrower is what camera am I on right now? Right here.


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[Assistant] Step in the bucket thrower. If I'm wanting to throw the ball right here, he is constantly...


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[Assistant] Way wide of the target. Now, I'm a lefty, he's a righty. So he's way left of the target. Way too much. Opened up. Doesn't keep the front shoulder in. Okay. The other thing he does, and why I say high effort, is because he is a, it's a lot of, you know, that kind of thing as he's throwing the ball.


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[Assistant] That doesn't tell me you're gonna be able to consistently throw it smooth, accurately, as the game goes on, as the year goes on. And the one thing he does, mechanically, that I do not like, that I see on film all the time, Paul, and I see it even at the combine a little bit, where he is a...


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[Assistant] Way over dramatic, over the top thrower, right? To where he gets in this position, the opposite shoulders down and the balls up like this. And let me just tell you all out there,


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[Assistant] Like this and get into some awkward position that is too many moving parts to where you're not going to consistently throw the ball accurately and cleanly the whole time. But I think at the end of the day, yes, lack of pop in the arm.


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[Assistant] That into account, catching a catchable football, spirals matter. Exactly. So you know, I see throws where, man, it's a hard wobbler on a curl route and the guy drops it and I go, well, yeah, the receiver should have dropped it.


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[Assistant] That's a really hard ball to catch too when it's spinning almost in a duckish type of fashion.


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[Assistant] I understand that, especially in the quarterback, I think in his shoes where...


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[Assistant] I don't know who told him he was going to be like the top, uh, a top 20 pick to where he thought he could afford the luxury of not going out there one more time and showing people what he has as a player to improve his stock. That's what you could do a bowl game. So I hear, I hear you there. I got no issue.


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[Assistant] Yes, I mean, listen, those are things certainly look at. I'm never too mad at a guy for making the business decision. And here I just go it's a little misinformed because I don't think


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[Assistant] Uhm, so there's that, but the big thing is, in games where I saw...


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[Assistant] Teams take away some of what I would call the bullshit completions for West Virginia. The screens, the Dana Hogerson specials.


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[Assistant] He is not capable of making plays off rhythm with his physical ability or making big throws into tight windows, what I would call somewhat of a system success at West Virginia.


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[Assistant] That's a good question. I think, uh, I think all of the above really there. I mean, I think, I think whoever that was kind of hit it all on. First of all, it is a timing thing because he's used to being in the shotgun, right? Just catching the ball, not having to worry about a drop or anything like that. Let me just turn my shoulders and look for who I got to throw the football to.


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[Assistant] Now you're dropping as you know and you're going through kind of the gymnastics in your head. Wait, coach told me when I throw this route, I should take five steps or when I throw that route, I should take seven steps.


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[Assistant] Let alone they haven't dropped a whole lot, and nor did I think his drop was real pretty at the combine either, which showed he has work to do there, but he wasn't the only guy that had work to do with the drop. I mean, we'll get into that as we go along.


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[Assistant] So he played early on this year with, uh, not being 100% healthy. And I took that into account as I watched the film early on in the year. It wasn't pretty. As the season went on, it went better. I think the big thing is a little bit like Will Greer here. I think this kid has a little bit more potential than a Will Greer because he is bigger, he's stronger. I do think he's more, a little bit more of a,


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[Assistant] But again, I would go back to lack of draw dropping plays that way, you know, not a whole lot of pop in the arm. He certainly can play the position and go through reads and move in the pocket subtly here and there.


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[Assistant] Again, I think inconsistencies in throwing, uh, lack of big time throws, and I, I know that Northwestern didn't have the most talent around them and things like that, but all of that, let alone


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[Assistant] What I felt like was the same motion, throw after throw after throw. You know, good quarterbacks this day and age, as you know too, you gotta be able to throw the ball from different platforms, adjust, be able to throw with people around you. The coach isn't gonna care in the NFL.


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[Assistant] You know, when somebody's at your feet, okay, and there's a ten, a guy ten yards down the field is wide open.


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[Assistant] David Cutcliffe. And I think that's first of all, was my number one warning flag when I, even before I dove into this, anytime I heard Daniel Jones, it was Duke, David Cutcliffe.


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[Assistant] Right, see, but when you're going there first before ability, that tells me that ability might not be where we want it to be. And that's what I saw. Now again, he's big, he is very well-schooled, keeps his body in great position, uh, he, he is a,


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[Assistant] But like, do you know what that, you never heard that one? I know an independent contract. Right, it's the same thing though, but I, because guys who can really throw it, Rodgers, Brady, Patrick Malmes, they know how to use their body to make their arm better. Daniel Jones,


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[Assistant] Is independent contractor. And again, everybody, I'm lefty and I know these guys are already. He keeps a very frozen front shoulder all the time, right? He doesn't get this, where you see all the good quarterbacks and good throwers do this. There's some flow. Instead, it's a very stiff upper body and the motion is kind of a whirly bird over the top.


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[Assistant] And again, it's very hard to make power game-changing type throws in those instances. That scares me for one. But two, yes.


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[Assistant] Again, if I'm thinking of a quarterback who is top 25 pick or end of the first round pick that I've heard with Daniel Jones, there's just not enough there and physical ability, in my opinion, for me to jump on that bandwagon. Not enough game play, you know, game changing, different type of throws.


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[Assistant] Well, I've watched 700 yards of throws and like six or seven touchdown passes and no interceptions and he knows how to play the position and make right decisions and he's very accurate as far as the short or intermediate pass game.


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[Assistant] I also said there wasn't one throw on here or play where I went, whoa, that's pretty damn special right there.


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[Assistant] I think that, for me, he is not a first round talent. So I would say somewhere between 30, you know, he's a second round guy. I think he is a guy that you draft.


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[Assistant] He could probably seamlessly come into a team even for a complicated offense and run the offense. I think those are the positives about him. But I think at the end of the day, what I would come to is,


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[Assistant] He needs an offense and a system around him. If the right guard hurt and the left tackles hurt and you have a receiver or two down and maybe your offense isn't that creative.


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[Assistant] Danielle Jones is not going to be the guy that's going to save your team or your offense or carry you through those phases of the season where you need the quarterback to go, I need our quarterback to make some big time plays and carry us through this stretch. No, but, uh, so that would be the big thing.


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[Assistant] He was in a passing offense that was a lot of the short passing game, like David Cutcliffe we talked about. I felt like a lot of defensive linemen knew, oh gosh, he's gonna get the ball out of his hand quickly. Yep. And he has a little bit of a deliberate delivery to where defensive linemen certainly can time it. And you would see a lot of batted balls, uh, throughout the film when you watch him.


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[Assistant] You were nosing through my notes, huh? Okay. Wouldn't let me watch film with you, but I did find your notes. Okay. Uh, Jared Stidham, you know,


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[Assistant] Okay, this is where I would start with him. And this is right, he's very close to four and five I think are very close. I will get to four in a minute. But five, Jared Stidham, there are things I like about Jared Stidham a lot. I really do. I think the first thing you have to do when you evaluate Jared Stidham is realize that


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[Assistant] Auburn's offense was horrible this year. There was no big time talent. I would say out of all the quarterbacks I watched, he had the worst pass protection.


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[Assistant] Uh, at Auburn. Yes, they were horrible this year. They really were. They had major issues. I'm not going to call out some of their guys on their offensive line, but there were certain positions where I would want to go like, wait, I checked the rule book. You are allowed to pass protect for this guy. You don't have to let the guy go through every play. Right.


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[Assistant] So you have to take that into account when you watch him. It's not always pretty. The offense is not overly creative. We're not talking about any Auburn wide receivers in the draft either. But the one thing I will say about Stinham, a very pure thrower of the football.


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[Assistant] His arm has pop. It's sneaky pop and he can do it easily within the pocket. He's a sneaky good athlete too. Can move around. Phenomenal at throwing the ball on the run. I thought that was another thing that really jumped out to me as you watched it. Because he was under duress a whole lot. Why is he only fifth?


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[Assistant] Because there's four in front of them that are damn good. Okay. But Jared, you know, Jared, instead of, I think the other thing people have to do, you have to go back and watch film from two years ago when Auburn was a little bit better. You're going to be more impressed.


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[Assistant] By what you saw with him. But regardless, Stidham is really good. I even said that I thought it was like, he's got a Tony Romo-ish type of style of play about him. Even his motion, the way he stands in the pocket. I thought that was maybe his ceiling, where I kinda said a guy like Brian Hoyer is probably his floor, right?


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[Assistant] I do think there is something there with Jared Stidham. I thought he made a number of big throws into tight windows. Even when guys were covered, I thought he put the ball in spots where maybe they could catch it. If not, the ball got batted down and a lot of his mistakes and bad plays. He had a few bonehead plays. I'm not trying to give him like a free pass here, but for the most part,


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[Assistant] Look, I, you know, looks, presence you have about you in the pocket, you know, like I look at a guy like Jared Stidham.


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[Assistant] But if you asked me and looked on the film, I'd go, man, they look like two different guys in the pocket. One guy looks kind of like an Adonis, and the other guy looks like, you know, eh, he looks good, but I'm not overwhelmed by him. So, presence.


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[Assistant] At the quarterback position, I do think or play something there, right? I mean, hey, when Pittsburgh Steelers and Big Ben run onto the field, we go, oh man, look at that big sucker right there. I mean, it doesn't even matter. Drew Brees, the same way, has a presence about him. Not that he's the biggest guy in the world, but there is a presence about him and how he leads the team and breaks the huddle and how he stands in the pocket and handles himself.


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[Assistant] Yeah, number four was like, I think one of the surprises of my evaluation for me, and that's Ryan Finley from North Carolina State. I mean, I came away kind of blown away by Ryan Finley and I used to use phenomenal to talk about your number five guy.


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[Assistant] I know, blown away. And I said that maybe a little bit because I wasn't expecting it to be this good. I'm not blown away from the point where I go, oh, this is the number one pick in the draft. I'm blown away because the film was much better than the TV scouting, right?


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[Assistant] It does, it helps things. I've seen him in person and I was impressed with him in person in Notre Dame two years ago, right? Uh, you do the Notre Dame radio broadcasts and you do a great job at it, but he played well two years ago when North Carolina State came to Notre Dame where he caught my eye. But I think the big thing,


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[Assistant] Talk about another guy with a really natural fluid motion throw in the football. I think that's the first thing I looked at. I'm going to say that he was the most accurate passer in this whole draft. Ryan Finley, when you go through it, I mean, even his incompletions are on the money for the most part. I was really blown away from that.


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[Assistant] On time, on rhythm, right on target. He's a, he's a gangly 6'4, 218 pounds. Not a, not a wide open receiver there. He's got great feel as a quarterback.


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[Assistant] Not only can he, he can throw the ball with a little power, and I'm not saying you're gonna go, oh wow, look at this arm, but he can make every throw.


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[Assistant] But I felt like his timing, anticipation, moving in the pocket was all really good, let alone running. I'm the run.


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[Assistant] You know, when you watch some of the throws he makes, uh, in the Syracuse game, in the Florida State game, uh, I'm missing a few others there that I just went, holy cow, I mean throwing it on the run to the right or left, and for a righty to do it the way he did throwing to his left, I thought was really, really impressive.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well, I think that probably the team itself maybe changed. Sometimes it's just about the hype of the year, things like that. I don't know what changed. I can tell you that I think when teams watch him and start to deep dive like I did late last week and early this week,


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[Assistant] They're going to come away going, whoa, there's something there to this kid. I mean, it's not system throws, it's scene routes, it's posts over the top.


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[Assistant] 10-15 yard outroutes on the money. And what you're gonna see too, to add to that.


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[Assistant] Making 15 yard out route throws, Paul, and you know this is very difficult as a quarterback before the guys even making his break as a receiver. Oh, I got pressure. Okay. And now I got to throw it out there to a spot knowing where my receiver is going to break and put it there accurately to where now the DB, you know, you're not going to throw it behind and the DB is going to pick it off and run, you know, for a pick six.


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[Assistant] Those are the things that jumped out to me. He was physically better than I gave him credit for TV scouting. He really popped off the screen.


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[Assistant] Uh, I'm just saying, I think Ryan Finley is everything everybody's trying to say about Daniel Jones. I want to go, no, no, it's not Daniel Jones. It's Ryan Finley. He is the guy that should be in this end of the first round conversation. Maybe the fourth guy off the.


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[Assistant] Off the board as the quarterback. Never, never loses control, uhm, on Paul. He keeps the ball.


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[Assistant] Right in here, just all day long, and it's very efficient and quick, and if he wants to get the ball out of his hand quick on short routes, three-step game, things like that, it's right away. I was really impressed with what I saw from Ryan Finley.


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[Assistant] You know, I learned something about this combine though, but go ahead, continue with your story.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well I think that's a crazy thing about the NFL in general. People can't understand, or they don't, the normal fan doesn't comprehend that there's very few people in the NFL.


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[Assistant] And no, that's why Tom Brady goes to see Tom House or some of these other guys do that. And I'm not saying they got every answer in the world as well, but


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[Assistant] No, you don't have to be quick, it doesn't matter. I know you've watched two quarterbacks at this point, right? You've watched Kyla Murray and Dwayne Haskins, okay? Start with Dwayne Haskins, we'll leave Kyla Murray for last, but just give us your assessment of what you saw, what you like, what you don't like.


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[Assistant] It is. It's blabber talk. You're definitely, and if you're gonna draft a guy like Kyle LaMurray, then you're obviously, you better have some things that you feel like, oh, we wanna do this cause he does this well, and you formulate things around him and his skill set too, to where you're not gonna draft him and go,


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[Assistant] We want you to, you know, play like Ben Roethlisberger now. We want you to just sit in there. I think people lose sight of that. A good coach adjusts to the talent they have and goes, oh, I like this kid and I can do some things that maybe I've never been able to do on the offensive side of the ball because he brings a different skill set.


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[Assistant] And the smart ones then orchestrated an offense around him and that skill set within some of the things they had in there normally too.


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[Assistant] But yes, I mean, that's what a good coach does. Where I've been around some other coaches where they're like, this is what I do, and this is what I, and you're going to adjust to me. Yeah, that's great, but you're probably not going to be coaching for a whole lot.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you can't just put your ear back and go after him because if there's a hole there, he's gonna rip it up in the hole and run for 30 yards.


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[Assistant] How could, how could we be doing this? What are the Giants doing? You know, Dad hit on some of it, right? I mean, first of all, guys like Landon Collins, this day and age, they play middle linebacker more times than they play safety. They're looking that guy to play middle linebacker, the guy that's 228 pounds, 230 pounds. He's been beat up a lot in his career.


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[Assistant] You know, he was beat up coming out of Alabama. That was one of the issues and detractors about him. You know, what kind of player are you getting? It was hard to evaluate him as last year there because he was beat up. So you had to go kind of fish around the film to find games where he wasn't to get the true picture. He had a phenomenal 2016 season.


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[Assistant] I feel like everybody's still hanging on to that season where he was, yes, special in, you said it before we got on, kind of in the conversation for NFL defensive player of the year that year, which he should have been. He was that special with some of the interceptions, the pick sixes, all those types of things. But, you know, the last two years have been underwhelming.


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[Assistant] He, I think he'd have to be used differently to maybe to where he gets into that almost linebacker type of position. But what dad is talking about, lack of speed, lack of game changing difference type plays, those are issues. And I do get the feeling that he's asking for top of the tier, you know, safety money. And I would just go,


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[Assistant] Yeah, okay. You know, I'm all four guys getting more money, but I just think it's a little unrealistic in this case. I don't think he is a top-tier safety in football at this point. Hopefully he gets back to that. I know he's a good guy. I root for him that way.


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[Assistant] I made a list just to go, to go, you know, okay, wait, where roughly would, would he be in the safety conversation in the NFL if we were to rank them, right? And I'm not gonna give you one, one through whatever.


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[Assistant] I went through some names and said, oh, okay, well, you don't franchise a guy when I came down to it all said and done, where he, he was somewhere between 18 and 20 as far as the safeties in football. Wow. I know.


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[Assistant] I know somebody might and I think that's, you know, hey, that's where teams can get them in trouble because they're, they go into bias. They go back into, I remember what I have evaluated him in college. I remember him in 2016. All right. Well, if you don't do your due diligence and kind of check on the history of his body and how that is, or watch the film, you're going to see some things where you're going to go, wait, why am I going to pay this guy, you know,


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[Assistant] 10 million dollars a year, 11 million dollars a year. But let me just throw out some names to just, just show the point. Like, okay, Devon McCourty.


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[Assistant] He's not Devin McCourty. Derwin James, okay. Kevin Byard. Tony Jefferson with the Baltimore Ravens. Micah Hyde up in Buffalo. Jamal Adams, okay. All those names do what better than he does.


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[Assistant] So, Tyrone Matthew, who we know is going to be out there. So I just named basically, you know, 18 to 20 guys where I would go, if you gave me a choice between Neverland and Collins, I'm probably going to pick them.


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[Assistant] Now Landon Collins, if he can be healthy and get back to what he was in 2016, then he can, hey Chris Simms, shut your ass up, you were wrong, and I'm better than that, but I'm just saying, you know me, I'm obsessive about watching film and football, and it hasn't been that type of play from Landon Collins the last few years, and we have to get over the freaking Pro Bowl thing.


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[Assistant] And I think these guys separate themselves from the rest of the group. Like, this is a, this is the elite crop for, for my money, uh, in the draft. I mean, these three stand alone, uh, just as far as physical ability, everything they bring. But number three for me is a guy my dad just talked about, Dwayne Haskins. I'm gonna make him number three, okay? And it's really close.


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[Assistant] Hey, the guy is a big sucker. I think the thing thing, the first thing you watch when you see him on film is how unbelievable he is in the pocket. Not necessarily


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[Assistant] Moving around and doing that thing, but just fearless with people around him. Like how my dad, I said one of my comparisons was Big Ben. I wrote Big Ben's kind of the ceiling. Jacoby Berset would kind of be the floor if I was going to look at a guy like Dwayne Haskins.


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[Assistant] Haskins is phenomenal at doing that. It didn't matter what game I watched, if there was people around him, it was like he, he acted like it was seven on seven. Like no one's gonna touch me or hurt me. You can't hurt me. I'm like, I'm a big guy. And he just would stand in there furiously, eyes down the field. And I really thought he jumped out.


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[Assistant] That's life in the NFL, right? I mean, only the great teams really protect their quarterback, where the quarterback gets to throw from a clean pocket, you know, three to four times. The rest of football is, it's 50-50. You get 50% of your throws, okay, the pocket's clean.


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[Assistant] The other 50% is yeaah, there's gonna be people open and the coaches are gonna go, wait, he was open and you got people around you who wanted to complete it. Too bad.


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[Assistant] My biggest concern is I do think he has some, some mechanical issues. I would say when everything is clean, he's really good, don't get me wrong, but he has to fix it. Some throws, high throws could be his issue. He gets a low elbow, okay, to where


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[Assistant] It's not necessarily the worst thing in the world, right? But Haskins, when he does throw the ball, it's kind of this motion, Paul, where he drops the ball, it's not a big drop, where it's like down here like this, like Byron Lefwich or Tim Tebow or anything like that.


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[Assistant] It's a real quick drop, but what I think gets him in trouble at times, and we saw it at the combine, and if you're watching on YouTube, you can see on the combine he raised his elbow a little bit more than what you would see on film.


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[Assistant] The elbow's not bad there, maybe a hair low, but here, if you're watching, you see the pictures as we go, that is a pretty low elbow for, for what we would see a Brady or Rogers. However, and keep that shut up.


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[Assistant] You just see as you're watching here, and if you are watching at home on YouTube, you'll see some of those pictures to just at least emphasize the point.


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[Assistant] But what happens to him too, too many times when the pocket is clean and people are open, the ball can sail on them at a time because the elbow is here, right? So then you almost are underneath the ball. So there's a guy that's wide open. Okay, bam, you're going to hit it, throw it to him. Oh, the ball goes up high. It's because he's in this position right here.


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[Assistant] It's not a horrible thing. He could still fix it. He's got a few little mechanical things here and there.


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[Assistant] But it's not like, oh gosh, I gotta drop him out 20 picks down the draft. Uhm, the thing that I found


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[Assistant] The best about him, and we showed like one little picture there of him throwing off his back foot, but with people around him, people at his feet,


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[Assistant] I saw a lot of non-system throws where I go, ooh, the pass protection wasn't good, and that wasn't a big window to throw the ball in there, and he threw a strike.


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[Assistant] But it's not gonna be making a living running the football. He's gonna make a living being in the pocket, being a big time thrower of the football that way. And as the season went on, Paul, he got better and better because he has only a one year of experience.


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[Assistant] I think Locke is good enough to be a top 10 pick too. And yes, uh, Drew Locke is my number two. And it's really close. Don't get me wrong here. I mean, this is one- What's the biggest difference? Well, I think that Locke is a really natural gifted thrower.


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[Assistant] And he's had more experience, and I do feel that consistency on certain throws down, really all throws down the field. Locke can just, it doesn't matter, he can just groove them in there all day long. Like I said, Dwayne Haskins,


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[Assistant] It's not bad. Again, I'm not trying to say anything bad. I think he's a top 6 or 7 pick, certainly. But I'm just saying, I don't think he was a pure thrower as Drew Locke. Drew Locke, first of all, is a better athlete than Dwayne Haskins. Locke runs better than I thought.


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[Assistant] Uh, I was going to expect when I, when I turned on the film, I thought I was going to see kind of a similar guy to Dwayne Haskins, but drew luck and a lot of people, again, this is what drives me crazy.


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[Assistant] You know, people are going to compare the two and go, well, look at all the games Dwayne Haskins won and drew. Great! But Dwayne Haskins, let's not forget, is


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[Assistant] Surrounded by 21 other NFL players. I mean, Paris Campbell just ran one of the fastest 40 times in the draft. The running back ran a great 40 times. Nick Bost is gonna go number one. I mean, you can just go down the list. Ohio State.


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[Assistant] Is awesome. I mean, they're full of NFL talent. So don't make that evaluation or make that comment. That's a team comment. That's not a quarterback comment.


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[Assistant] He had a different way he had to play. Dwayne Haskins could take some games, Paul.


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[Assistant] Like a Mahomes or a Baker Mayfield or a Matt Stafford, he can throw it any which way possible. You want him to throw it sidearm, he can do that. You want to throw, you know, he would, baiting away off his back foot, no problem.


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[Assistant] Fading away backwards, throwing a post, he can do that as well. Was in a crappy offense, did not have great receiver play, uh, I was extremely impressed with Drew Lock. I think it's very close, neck and neck. If there's one ranking I might change as we go along, it'll be these two guys that I kinda nitpick as I go even deeper and deeper into it.


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[Assistant] There is something to that. I think if it's gonna be a little dependent, that's why I like- Your dad would tell me that it doesn't matter. Yeah, I do. I think it matters a little bit. I do. I think having those reps-


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[Assistant] Being able to see certain defenses, having a feel for a rush, I don't know if it matters in year five or six of their career, but I think early on is where it can matter. If you're the New York Giants, Dwayne Haskins might be the perfect place for him.


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[Assistant] Get a year, work on a few of the mechanical things we've done.


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[Assistant] Their offense of Ohio State was a lot of max protection for Dwayne Haskins, only two and three receivers out, which means he didn't always have to read these intricate


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[Assistant] And of course the experience and just having played a little bit more does make me feel warm and cozy, especially if you're a team that goes, I need a guy maybe this year to play.


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[Assistant] Well, uh, he's Russell Wilson, I guess is what I would say. I mean, that, you know, that's the only guy you can compare him to. I mean, you know, Kyler Murray is so good and such a freak of nature. I mean, it's almost like it's hard to come up with comparisons with guys like this because he's a little bit of a trend center. We haven't seen guys like this a whole lot in the NFL. But I think the first thing with Murray is,


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[Assistant] And like my dad said, I went into the tape going, this guy just plays backyard football. I always try to go in as kind of being a hater because I don't want to have preconceived notions.


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[Assistant] First thing I just went right off the bat, plays the quarterback position, true to the position. He wants to dice you up from the pocket. He's not going, oh, I'm looking at the first read and if he's not there, I'm gonna run around and just make a play happen.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that might have been Michael Vick when he came out of Virginia Tech. It's not Kyler Murray. Kyler Murray will stand there and read an out cut to his left and then wait for the crosser to come across and pat the ball and wait for the other crosser to come across and then get all the way to the opposite side of the field and throw a 20 yard route over to that side and you go,


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[Assistant] Holy cow, I mean that was impressive. Not only the decision, the patience in the pocket, the position, the positions he stayed in while he did it, and then his throwing, as you heard my dad say,


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[Assistant] You know, it's just natural. Him, Drew Locke, Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes, I put those guys into like, you know, they're in that baseball category where it's just...


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[Assistant] They could pick up any object and they can throw it. They were put on earth to just sling that thing around.


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[Assistant] That is a great, cause it is close. It really is. Uhm, hm.


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[Assistant] Okay, I think it is between Murray and Locke in that conversation. I think I would, and Haskins, again, I don't want, I'm not trying to detract from this guy. He's awesome. But I'm just saying as pure passer, I would give the edge to Locke and Murray over him. And I think if you really held me down to it, I would poof. I would probably go Locke.


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[Assistant] It's really close. Now, Locke, I guess where I would say, Locke, I would say maybe just within the pocket, throwing the ball in that realm, I give him a slight edge over Murray. If they got outside of the pocket, I'm giving the edge to Murray over Locke, but just slightly too, cause Locke can sling it on the run too.


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[Assistant] Book it. Uhm, it's, it's, I, I was blown away. I thought, like I said, I was gonna see some guy that just ran around like a chicken with his head cut off and just made plays and we went, woah, he's fast and yeaah, he could throw it a little bit.


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[Assistant] A third down running back or Barry Sanders with an arm or more Michael Vickish where he can get out and make people like break ankles in the space like a, like an Allen Iverson crossover to where he can make people miss like that. He's very good at sliding and not letting people get extra hits on him. He's phenomenal at that.


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[Assistant] And hey, the only worry you have with Kyla Murray is, hey, it's week 10 and he's taking a lot of hits. Can he hang in there physically? That is going to be the big question about it because in the Alabama game and a few other games, when he did take big hits, he had to come out for a play in the Alabama game.


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[Assistant] You know, he got up slow. He's not a big framed guy. I got to meet him in person. I mean, it's a different build, but it's special as a football player. I mean,


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[Assistant] As I got into it, I just like, well damn, there's nothing negative or to be nitpicky about. It's just, it's strike. It's perfect throw. It's, oh, great anticipation. Way to stay in the pocket and stay in perfect position. I mean, good decision. I mean, it just went on and on and on.


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[Assistant] I think they should, yes. I mean, he can be a transcendent type of player. And I liked Josh Rosen coming out last year, but this is, yea, this is special, I think. And I think only these kind of guys come around every so often.


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[Assistant] Oh, really good one there. That's close. That's a really good question.


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[Assistant] Uh, maybe Rosen has a stronger arm, but that's, that's a good one. And I, I've heard that to all week where I heard some people say like, oh, Josh Rosen would be the top quarterback in this year's draft if he was in it. No, negative ghost rider. That's, that's not true. I'm not ready to, to say that. These three guys are legit. And I, and I do, I think they're top 10 in the draft worthy.


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[Assistant] Well, that's an old listener. That's one of my, must have been one of my loyal listeners from Bleacher Report, right?


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[Assistant] Piss missiles, you know, I guess I would go piss missiles locked.


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[Assistant] Haskins can do the same thing, certainly. Murray, I don't know if he can just absolutely wizard in there quite as strongly as they can. His arm's plenty strong and he can do everything. He's got an amazing arm.


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[Assistant] But I'm just talking about pure piss missiles, 20 yard rifles down the field. Yes, I would think it would be one, two, three in that, in that general direction right there. Now the rocket wobblers.


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[Assistant] Be all over the place as he's hitting the receiver and you look back and you go, wait, why did the receiver drop that? Well, damn, that ball was hard to catch. I mean, uh, he would lead that, you know, not a ton of rocket wild boar guys though, that I saw so far. I mean, everybody for the most part out of these guys, we talked about out of all eight.


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[Assistant] We're at least spiral throwers for the most sense, where I thought, you know, the big three of course spend it the best and hardest, yes.


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[Assistant] Monday, uh, I'll be back again with Ahmed Farid and we'll do something there. We'll talk about the news from the weekend, but remember Chris Simms unbuttoned.


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[Assistant] You can get it at youtube.com, NBC Sports, or anywhere you get your podcasts. I hope everybody enjoyed the deep dive. Thanks for coming on, man. It's good. Let's try it for the third time. Hey, look at you! I was gonna snap. You can snap. You got it. Next time we'll have it down. Peace out, homies. Have a good one.


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[Assistant] Hi, I'm Mike Tirico and thanks for watching. Make sure to hit subscribe for the latest news and highlights from NBC Sports.


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[Assistant] Bam! I forgot my height man, like poor. You see this? Don't mess with this! He is a big dude. Don't mess with this! 6'5"?


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[Assistant] So I'm not sitting here trying to get, you know, clicks or likes or anything like that. Although it would be nice if you guys want to click or like the podcast. How about you? Are you a good flirter? I mean, you got married so you were one time in your life a good flirter. One time I was able to do it.


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[Assistant] Yo, what up? We're here back at Central Park. My man, Ahmed Farid. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] That is special right there. I like blue shirts and as a, as you know, I like to button it to the top. Go to the top. And I gotta do that, I'm buttoning to the top today. Even when I wear hoodies, I usually wear something underneath just in case it shows on screen to just fool everybody to thinking I'm, uh, very professional.


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[Assistant] Yeah, no, I'm hoping that we hear some rumors or things that, you know, Team Player X is going to be signing with, you know, Team Z as we're going here so we can just have natural reactions and conversations to it.


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[Assistant] When it comes to my mind or the first thing that hit home when I first read the news was a third and a fifth rounder for Antonio Brown. It still seems low. I don't care that he's plus 30 years old or that he wanted new money to me at the end of the day.


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[Assistant] I think there's positive negatives for both teams, the Steelers and the Raiders, but I just still think there's more negatives when it comes to the Steelers in this situation where I just go,


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[Assistant] Also added to that fact. Okay, Antonio Brown. We know he didn't want to play for the Pittsburgh Steelers and all of that. Certainly the Steelers, I still believe had more leverage here, uh, to use if they wanted to. I think so too. I mean, you've got


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[Assistant] I know they don't have to pay him a salary and all that. So that's a good thing. Certainly they can use that money wisely and constructively for their football team. But I still think I'm blown away by just the third and the fifth. Okay. That's the first thing that jumps out to me. Okay. On the other side of that conversation,


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[Assistant] You know, I guess I'm also amazed that the Raiders threw out that kind of money to Antonio Brown. Yeah, that was, that was interesting too. Cause we don't know if any other team was willing. I pretty much know. I'm just, I know I am very, I got well informed of this conversation. Raiders on an island from what you know. From everything I know, from people around the NFL.


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[Assistant] I think part of the reason Pittsburgh maybe acted so quickly or aggressively here to get rid of Antonio Brown, I don't think there was much of a market from him. Everything I was told from people around the NFL and everything, that there was teams that called, but nothing got more than just lukewarm on Antonio Brown.


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[Assistant] No, I get that. I think to what you're saying is, you know, you don't get that aspect of it. Yeaah, I understand that. I think the big thing is, and this is a phrase that somebody with knowledge of the situation uses with me is,


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[Assistant] With the guy, which I understand because the stories you hear out of Pittsburgh and I know a lot of them. Yeah, it has not been easy dealing with Antonio Brown. He does work hard. He is a baller to like what you're saying.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but at the same time, I don't think the market was as robust as people think and I certainly know that nobody was willing to offer up this kind of money for


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[Assistant] Did Antonio Brown, Drew Rosenhouse always know it was the Raiders, right? Did the Raiders and them work together, okay, just in cohoots basically to go, hey listen, we'll pay you your money, we really want you, but we don't want to give away one of our first round picks, right? That's the angle they're playing, so do they, do they come up


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[Assistant] With a plan, okay? This is kind of Kristen's, you know, conspiracy theory. Do everything he can to suppress his value. Exactly right. Go on social media, talk about how much you want more money, how you're calling the shots.


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[Assistant] Man, we're scared the hell of this guy. We don't want to trade for him. And all of a sudden that first round pick goes, man, I don't know if I want to give him a second round pick. You see this guy on Instagram every day? So I'm just saying those are real possibilities. I have no knowledge of that part of the situation, but I do have knowledge that nobody was offering money other than the Raiders and that there was not a big market for him trade wise to get it done right now. And that's why if I'm the Steelers, I would have waited. I just wouldn't have done it this quickly.


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[Assistant] Just in my experience and just playing under John in Tampa Bay. He always used to say.


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[Assistant] Little guys with a little edge that weren't allowed to speak, you know, weren't afraid to speak their mind or, you know, cuss a player out from time to time if they were doing bad. I think he does welcome that. I think Gruden knows how to play to these type of personalities. And more than anything, this is where John Gruden's fandom comes out.


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[Assistant] Then too, he's gonna go from there when they get into offensive meetings and things, that's where he's really gonna placate to the Antonio Brown.


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[Assistant] I would take over them. Now he's top five, but I'm not going to sit here and say he's the number one receiver in football at 31 years old. And we certainly could argue last year if he was the best receiver on his football team. And that was a conversation. I mean, his teammates thought Juju Smith Schuster was the MVP of the offense.


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[Assistant] So it is, and I don't think they should look in the first round, because look at guys like that we were just talking about. Juju was a second rounder, Antonio Brown's a sixth rounder, right? You know, you know, Mike Wallace was a mid-round pick. You know, Emmanuel Sanders, they have, some teams have a niche at finding certain positions and figuring out what works.


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[Assistant] You know, they got James Washington second round out of Oklahoma State last year. They're going to need him to contribute to the team. But yeah, they're going to have to work their magic as far as the receiver position is concerned.


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[Assistant] And I do trust that they can do that, and I think they trust that. It's part of the reason I think they were willing to do this, let alone they have some talent there. They still got James Connor, they still got good tight end play, and let's not forget, okay?


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[Assistant] There's going to be pressure. Now I think that's part of the magic of why they make him the three year, $50 million deal, right? Let's not have him come in here and not pay him and then go through the first two or three weeks where he doesn't catch as many balls. And all of a sudden we have a scene here in Oakland, right? So maybe this lessens the edge if things don't go as smoothly right away, right?


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[Assistant] But good pressure. I mean, Derek Carr is gonna be the kind of pressure where like, you know,


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[Assistant] But Grunen is gonna make it all about Antonio Brown.


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[Assistant] He's going to go that team meeting and show the team how awesome he is. He's going to go to offensive meetings and show old clips of Jerry Rice and Sterling Sharp when Gruden used to coach the Packers or the Raiders or the 49ers. And he's going to show them running all the plays that he has in his offense and go, look,


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[Assistant] This is what you're going to do Antonio. So he's going to play to that part of them too. Let alone, this is the final, at least my final point with this whole conversation. Antonio Brown.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, you just, players in the NFL, especially as compared to the other sports, don't get to call their shots. Let alone players in the NFL who are under contract and are forcing their way off of a team.


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[Assistant] I think this is going to open Pandora's box. Really? Yeah, I do because I think this is more of an eye-opener to players to go, wait, okay, if I really want off a team, I can pull this off. Now it's only going to be the star players.


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[Assistant] That's the first thing. It's not going to be like the backup linebacker of a football team or anything like that. You're in like a top three at your position. Right. Like now this is on the table. It certainly is on the table. The players are becoming more and more business savvy.


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[Assistant] Popular opinion, right? Which Antonio Brown, anything you looked at recently, I mean, other than the Raiders fans right now, it's, oh, he's got a big mouth, he's a jerk, you know, why doesn't he just honor his contract? It's all, I mean, it's mostly negative.


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[Assistant] Uh, okay, if you can handle that negative scrutiny from the media and everything like that, then yeaah, you're going to be able to call some of your own shots. I mean, listen, you're seeing it. I mean, even, you see what, you know, I don't want to get off topic because I know we're going to talk about it maybe later on. Frank Clark, I mean, I'm not coming to, I'm not coming or playing during training camp unless...


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[Assistant] Uh, I get a long-term deal because he's been franchised. You know, guys are gonna start to do what they need to do to make sure they can maximize their dollars as businessmen, businessmen, because their lives and their body


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[Assistant] 100% because I just, you know, again, my experience with John Gruden and being in that offense and how he plays to those type of players, he's going to make every play about Antonio Brown. Antonio Brown.


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[Assistant] Touchdowns can be fluky and he's again, I think if you went back and watched some of the highlights from last year, a lot of the touchdown out


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[Assistant] The quarterback comes into play there too. Yeaah. And again, as much as whatever we think of Big Ben on off the field.


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[Assistant] You know, which I do think detracts from what he is on the field. He is a special, special elite thrower of the football to where again, go back and watch the highlights and watch how many bombs are down the sideline that are perfectly thrown or Big Ben being patient in the pocket and sliding and then throwing a 30 yard laser into the back of the end zone.


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[Assistant] I do. I think Big Ben is that good. I think there's a difference between their style of play and their, you know, their high end play at this point of their career. Yes, I do. Okay. All right. Touchdowns is a big thing. That's not all just about the player. You know, that's about the quarterback too and his ability to find you in some of those big moments or make extraordinary plays in the red zone, which Derek Carr has only showed really


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[Assistant] I think it's maybe some of the details about the mystery guest. Uh, that's what we might not be able to talk about.


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[Assistant] So let's do, uh, Matt Casey in the back. We can call him. He's got 10 minutes for us. Uhm, the one thing that I know we're not allowed to talk about is contract related, right? Okay. So we'll be able to talk about this player and we'll introduce them to everybody in a second. I'm going to follow your lead. Okay.


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[Assistant] But no reported contract details or anything like that. But when we get them on the phone, uh, we'll, we'll go in on


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[Assistant] Yeah, we're hoping to have him on the phone here in a few minutes. Uh, but of course, makes sense, right? They got rid of Michael Bennett. They needed this type of guy. Malik Jackson's really just a younger version of Michael Bennett in a lot of ways.


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[Assistant] Kind of done Peyton Manning, uh, but Malik Jackson being there, then going to Jacksonville where you get a huge payday. I mean, he's a hell of a player who's still got a lot of years in front of him. I think it's actually a brilliant signing.


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[Assistant] Yep, uh, well, it goes back to Tennessee. College days at Tennessee. My brother was on the Tennessee Volunteers with Malik Jackson. They were very close that way.


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[Assistant] We're good. I'm here with Ahmed Farid. Okay. Just so you know, this is my new Chris Sims unbuttoned podcast on NBC Sports. Okay. So you're one of our first guests. You should be honored. I hope you know that.


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[Assistant] Well, yeaah, I mean, I guess I want to start there, Malik. What, like, you know, what is your two cents on, you're the Jacksonville Jaguars, you have this unbelievable 2017 season. What kind of led you think, in your opinion, to the dysfunction of the 2018 season and not being able to repeat some of that success?


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[Assistant] I've always wanted to ask you this just because I know that Denver team you were on was so special, and I view that Jaguars defense that you were just on as very special as well. Like, what defense was more talented in your opinion, uh, you know, over the last few years? The Jaguars or that Broncos day?


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, okay, so here you are, a guy who's done a lot of great things, made a lot of money in his career already. Uhm, are you motivated by the things that went on to Jacksonville last year? The fact that they sat you down for it? You're going to work out right now, so you must be motivated by something.


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[Assistant] So, okay, so now, I mean, I don't know how much you could talk. Of course, the rumors are that you're going to the Philadelphia Eagles, okay? Uhm, and I don't know how much you want to comment about those rumors or anything like that, and we don't have to get into any details that you're uncomfortable with.


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[Assistant] But if you were to be on the Eagles here in the recent future, what has jumped out to you about their team? Another special D line that you would get to be a part of if you joined that squad.


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[Assistant] I was saying to Ahmed here earlier, just like, you become a locker room legend when you pull things off, like Antonio Brown. You know, he kind of debarked the system, right, with how he went about it on social media and all that. Do you feel the same way or am I off on that?


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[Assistant] They have the money once again. You know, I've been saying, and this is something I said to Florio a lot on Pro Football Talk, you know, I do think John Gruden and company, like, they're not taking a quarterback. They're going to be behind Derek Carr this year. My first argument would be, uh, is that


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[Assistant] You know, how do you know what Derek Carr is yet? But the way last year went around, there was no talent around about wide receiver. Running back wasn't that special.


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[Assistant] Derek Harkin then therefore make the right decisions and throws to justify three years, 50 million for Antonio Brown. So it's almost like the chain effect, but okay, there's big Trent Brown who had a phenomenal year.


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[Assistant] Good start. Do we have any numbers yet as far as the anything been heard on multiple reports? Four year, $66 million deal. Wow. Four years, $66 million. Dear web desk. That's 17 million a year, right? Am I correct with that? Yes, I am correct. How'd you do that?


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[Assistant] How'd you do that? 36 and change guarantee. Wow. So that's, uh, that's big time franchise tackle type of money. And I guess the big thing I'll be interested in a half per year, 16 and a half per year. Um, the, the big thing I'm going to be interested to see is Colton Miller, who they drafted out of UCLA.


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[Assistant] Trent Brown in theory is more of like a right tackle to begin with. That's what he did a lot for the San Francisco 49ers. The Patriots really were the ones to move him to left tackle. So I'll just be interested to see how they play that. Do they move Trent Brown to left tackle and wait for Colton Miller to develop a little bit more before they put him back over there and move him to right tackle? All interesting things.


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[Assistant] I'm a, I'm a big fan of that move. Okay, quick hitters. Yeah.


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[Assistant] I mean, three of them, of course, Brady, they're going to do that, but Devon McCordy. Okay. And Stefan Gilmore are really like the only people I can remember. Adelius Thomas, maybe back in the day where they spend money.


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[Assistant] I think, again, this is New England going, we're not going to pay all this money to a player who


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[Assistant] You know, with saying that, I don't think they think is in the elite class of defensive ends and all of football and Trey Flowers. They get a guy from Michael Bennett where they go, okay, we got to pay him $7 million. That's all left. Right.


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[Assistant] Bell has always loved Michael Bennett. If you go back and watch America's game, the year they had to play the Seattle Seahawks and the Super Bowl, oh my gosh, all they talked about was Michael Bennett and blocking him. So, uh, makes a lot of sense from that.


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[Assistant] I actually thought this was a very good trade for both teams. I, I really did. I think, uh, when you look at, uh, okay, let's just take the Browns aspect of it. First of all, the Browns offensive line is very good to begin with. So, okay, so they're deep.


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[Assistant] They're not going to have any problem filling in the Kevin Zeitler hole. Uh, they drafted Austin Corbett last year out of, uh, I don't want to say it was no, it was somewhat of the teams in Nevada. I'm blanking on it right off the bat, but he was a second round pick. Okay.


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[Assistant] And they just get a new, uh, coordinator, the, you know, Steve Wilk from the Arizona Cardinals. You know, so he wants another guy to make his defense look good. Olivier Vernon, $15 million. He was certainly overpaid by the New York Giants.


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[Assistant] He's in that convo. So, you know, now, okay, you got Nate Solder. You got the, they drafted the, the guard out of UTEP in the second round last year. You know, they got him. So they're starting to build something there to go, one, we need to protect Eli Manning and what should be his last year in the NFL. And two,


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[Assistant] We got this freak of nature, Saquon Barkley, who averaged five yards of carry.


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[Assistant] You know, who's been around the league, can understand Wade Phillips' defense, pick it up in a hurry, and still has some tread left on his tires. Eric Weddell's perfect for that, plus he was not overly expensive. You know- Two years between 10 and 12 million for-


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[Assistant] Okay, yeaah, so that's, that's fair, that's a fair price for him. And really, it's probably a one year deal, and then he's gonna have to earn that second year. So, so, from that standpoint, now, you talk about the Dante Fowler thing. Okay, well first of all, they want that to work. They traded away a third round pick last year, right?


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[Assistant] Dante Fowler did play really good down the stretch of the season last year.


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[Assistant] Let's see if he can improve on his play and maybe go to another level to where we can evaluate it, see it happen if we get to week seven or eight and he's really knocking out of the park.


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[Assistant] They can get him for the low, right, before he hits the market again and make him a deal to go, okay, wow, that's a good amount of guaranteed money. I don't know if I can turn that down and wait the other half of the season to get the free agency. So I think it makes sense for them to sign Dante Fowler. Was that quick enough for you?


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[Assistant] Other than the fact that he can't stay healthy every time they give him the confidence to go out there and play. So that's probably part of the reason they bring it to. Those two I think will kind of duel it out to a degree. I think Case Keenan will probably have to mess it up to lose that job.


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[Assistant] I don't know if I want to say this, but I think that would maybe, in my, uh, um, I'm not going to say it takes them out of the quarterback sweepstakes as far as first round quarterbacks. I think the Redskins are still in it, but like you said, it kind of takes the pressure off if it doesn't work out.


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[Assistant] My football, you know, connecting the dots or reading the tea leaves. Okay.


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[Assistant] The first thing I think about when I hear Jackson, Jacksonville rumored in the Ryan Tannehill conversation. And this is again, this is something I'm throwing out there, but through my years of following the NFL, I've been right about these situations before. That's why I throw them out there.


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[Assistant] We might, we might just sign Ryan Tannehill for 12 million a year. Maybe now Falls Camps goes, whoa, whoa, we kind of like you guys here in Jacksonville. Nick likes John D. Filippo. All right, we'll come down on our price. We'll go to 18 million a year. Now Jacksonville might go, that's more like it. Okay, we do it. I don't think this is a duel it out thing in training camp. I think this is a one or the other.


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[Assistant] There's been a lot of talk. They like the Dwayne Haskins. Would they take Kyler Murray? Are they going to trade up to get the guy they want? Well, now again, like you just said with Washington.


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[Assistant] It's they have to protect themselves for the what if scenarios if we don't get one of the three or four quarterbacks we like in the first two rounds of the draft, we got to have somebody that can still instill confidence in our team that


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[Assistant] That could very easily happen, but if they don't get the quarterback, at least they got a guy that's played some games.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and it's working with Mike, which is torture in itself, so it's a double whammy. Do you have a winner? Uh, my, ooh, my winner, uhm,


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[Assistant] Chad OchoCinco. Oh, okay. Because of something I've read in the news, I was unaware of this, but apparently this has been going on for the last few weeks, but I was only made aware of it here recently. OchoCinco going around leaving tips according to his career stats, right?


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[Assistant] Like he left somebody a $296 tip because he only had 296 total yards with the New England Patriots. Uh, that to me is really cool. Ocho Cinco.


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[Assistant] Chad Johnson is really a cool guy in a lot of ways, and I know his history is not perfect, certainly, but I've been around him enough to know he is quirky, funny, as quick-witted as I've ever been, and I feel like that's kind of like a cool thing to do. It's kind of a winner. We should get him on the show at some point. We definitely will.


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[Assistant] Players would relish the fact of a, uh, seeing a teammate about to get hit by a fan. Yeaah. I mean, you're giving players a free pass to kick somebody's ass. Yeaah. And I think that would be like, much, much, very well liked by


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[Assistant] That's pretty much a big time loser. Is he as big a loser as Jose Canseco? Are you sure? You don't like Jose? Well, I mean, it's like Jose does this to himself, but A-Rod and JLo get engaged this weekend.


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[Assistant] They get engaged and you're, Jose Canseco's gonna tweet about A-Rod's been cheating on her with my ex-wife. He tweeted about it publicly. With his ex-wife. I was with my ex-wife, he was calling her phone like


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[Assistant] Come on, man. Like, what are you doing? Like, are you that starving to be, like, relevant that you're gonna just ruin other people's lives, uh, publicly? I just, I don't get that. That's like, that's breaking the humanity code, the man code, any of it. I just, like,


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[Assistant] Thank you Malik Jackson, congratulations on your deal. Seriously, the deal that we can't talk about. Peace out homies, we'll see you next time.


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[Assistant] Chris Sims Unbuttoned, which is the play on, I mean, you've got your own style.


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[Assistant] If you're watching on YouTube, which you can do, youtube.com slash NBC Sports or on our website, nbcsports.com, you see I just went top button. Yeaah. And it looks terrible. Right. It looks awful.


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[Assistant] I bought it like five years ago and the shirt has gotten smaller. Or your muscles have gotten bigger. I've worked out my neck. No, you don't have muscles. I know that already. Sorry slugger. So Chris Sims, Ahmed Fareed, this is Chris Sims Unbuttoned. So the day one, this is the debut episode of a new podcast. What is the goal?


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[Assistant] So anyone can come and walk, and honestly, they can take over my role if they want to. Yes. Uhm, and just kick me out. So yeaah, we're, we're right in the middle of where we work here in beautiful, uh, sunny, snowy, Stanford, Connecticut. Uhm, but just so you know a little bit about me, and I'll be...


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[Assistant] I think Matt Stout, cause he gets spoiled, you know, but Lions fans have never been spoiled. Right. And so if you get a quarterback who is a little bit above average, I feel like you get really excited and you embrace that guy forever.


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[Assistant] That doesn't, that ruins everything. Then you're not a healthy eater. Uhm, so as we mentioned, you can, you can watch some of the clips. We're sitting here in Central Park in Stamford, Connecticut, uh, on youtube.com slash NBC Sports. You can listen on nbcsports.com. Uh, you can do all that stuff. Uh, you have done a pot.


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[Assistant] So this is what now. Yeaah, that's what I'm talking about. Sims let's go. Where my homies at? So this is the, this is our.


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[Assistant] Uh, so okay, so that's the first one of maybe many or maybe that will be the only one ever. Uh, so let's get it. The big news, what are people talking about? I think the biggest news is about


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[Assistant] A player who did not participate at all. I wouldn't say at all. But mostly at the Combine, Kyler Murrieta Oklahoma, the Heisman Trophy winner. He did participate enough to get measured, to get weighed, to get his hand size, and all those.


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[Assistant] There's so much money on the line. There's so much money for being, I mean, for Kyler Murray being 5'8", I mean, who knows? You see those things where you can, uh, you tape your ankles in and you hang upside down? Yeah. Like, what's to stop a player from doing that for 24 hours straight to get an extra half an inch? Right.


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[Assistant] They're going to quickly learn that between the time that we're taping this podcast, if you don't want to be ridiculed by Chris Sims, you're not going to walk.


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[Assistant] We can get their thoughts on Kyler Murray in a second here. So here's the, I mean, so Kyler Murray is shot up the board. Last year was a historic draft with the five quarterbacks, four from taking in the top ten, including the Cardinals with ten at Josh Rose for Josh Rosen at ten.


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[Assistant] I'm telling you Chris, you look at some of the mock drafts, some have five quarterbacks once again going in the first round back to back years. If I was to sit an over under on quarterbacks in the first round at three and a half.


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[Assistant] Are you taking the over, or are you taking the under on that?


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[Assistant] Let's do some winners and losers. So if you were to say the first few days of the combine still going on a little bit today, you would put Daniel Jones in the loser category.


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[Assistant] So, underwhelming enough, because there's a lot of people that have them first round, maybe even top 15. Yes, I think that's crazy.


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[Assistant] When you make an error, I'm here. You're here to pick me up. Well, that'll happen a lot. And try to correct you. Okay, so we got the... Me stupid sometimes. Over on the quarterbacks in the first round of over three and a half. I mean there could be five. I feel like, I almost feel like we're at a stage in the NFL where


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[Assistant] Every year, there's gonna be like four or five quarterbacks taken. Not because they're worthy, they're talented. These teams need quarterbacks. Yeah, I, I agree. No, no. And they hope to catch a lightning in a bottle in the first round of one of


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[Assistant] So there were some winners and losers at the quarterback position for sure. Let's go through a few more winners and losers here because I think there were some clear winners and some clear losers. One clear winner for me.


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[Assistant] Oreos. What? Cookie the oreos. Dude. Actually not the double stuffed. Double stuffed. I wanna clarify because I think single stuffed not worth your time.


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[Assistant] But then, right before he did all the 40 yard dash, all the different, four double stuff.


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[Assistant] They're like, they're like, why is Chris yelling at me? I mean, I've walked past here. Uhm, so, so the, the players for Ole Miss missing, but the teams,


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[Assistant] You're right. I mean, that's, that's. Eight and five. I mean, that's not four and four in the SEC. Okay. Yes, right. Ole Miss was five and seven. DK missed.


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[Assistant] Half the year, uh, with an injury, but one in seven in the SEC. Not great if you're the state of Mississippi. No, definitely not. Uhm, you, uh, you do like the state of New Jersey though. What? Because year in and year out. Yeaah. As a guy from, I'm from Jersey. And dirty Jersey. Before I visited New Jersey, I thought New Jersey, all it was was a crap hole. No, no. Yeaah. Pavement.


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[Assistant] It's beautiful. It's the garden state. You do have gardens. You have greenery, you have trees. I didn't know there were trees there, to be honest with you. But I saw trees when I was there. It's a beautiful state. Where did you live in Jersey? Uh, Princeton area. Wow, that is a very pretty area. Yes. Yeah, it was like Princeton Junction, right by the train. Hey, Jersey football is real. It really is.


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[Assistant] You've said that the defensive line, the linebackers, they blew you away. You knew they were good, they blew you away at the combine. So we're definitely talking about winners and losers.


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[Assistant] Nick Bosa, who seems like for the last two months has been the winner. It's like people say, yep, he's going to be the number one pick. It's not even a question, but it's a, it's a formality. He didn't play much of the year in college this past year, sat out with the injury, performed well at the combine, actually outdid his brother Joey in a lot of the different metrics, maybe just by a little.


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[Assistant] I mean, you owe nothing to anyone else but yourself and your family make the decision that's best for you. Exactly. Although what it does worry me about is that, you know, you've already seen some injury problems for his, his brother. Sure. And so he misses a whole year. Nick does now with Ohio State basically.


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[Assistant] That would be a concern to me. What kind of injury, you know, you get tabbed injury prone, some of it's just bad luck and some of it's not, you know, there's not a whole lot of, not to it. You just had some bad luck and you got injured and that's what happened. But if I was another team, I'd be, I'd be a little concerned.


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[Assistant] I've got a loser. Yeah, so anyone, you talk about how great the linebackers were in a defensive line and defensive backs going today. My loser is anyone.


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[Assistant] What do you think of the guys who don't finish the drill? Who don't run it through the coach? Coaches get very angry about that.


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[Assistant] I feel like if I was a talent evaluator, if you're not the most attractive, it's like a comedian. Right. They always say that. It's like I wasn't a very popular kid in school, so I had to be funny. Yeah. It's like you develop these other skills. Sure. I would go the other way.


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[Assistant] I would go, let me get the guys who don't look very good, cause I know they're gonna put in the full effort. The guys who are like models, they got ex- like Tom Brady, he's got 50 million different companies, he's got a model wife, so you got other things going on.


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[Assistant] There's so much tape on all of these players. Going back to high school, you got tape on high school on them when they were recruited, now you've got college tape on them all, but yet it does seem like you go to the combine and you perform five drills, you run a couple 40s, you jump a couple times, and your stock goes up.


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[Assistant] I'm curious if that's some media hype. Right. With that, or if actual talent evaluators are putting more stock into a tenth of a second in the forty at the combine over what you did in college for the four years.


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[Assistant] White boy supreme. White boy supreme. And you know who's another white boy supreme? He's a man, I mean these are all men, but Kyle Shanahan who hasn't had the results, he got bit by the injury bug last year with Jimmy Garoppolo, you know him well. I do. You got to talk with him. I did, I got to talk with him.


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[Assistant] Okay, so let's take a look. The debut of the interview segment of the Chris Sims on Button podcast, Kyle Shanahan.


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[Assistant] They haven't won yet with Kyle Shanahan. This first year they didn't expect to. This past year they did with Jimmy, but then he goes down to game number three. People still really like him.


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[Assistant] Right. You had Jim Harbaugh, who was great, and then it ended poorly. You had the run-in with Jed York, who's the owner of the team over there. And then they went through coaches, Jim Tomsul, after that. That was a disaster. You got Chip Kelly, one year and done. So it was so much instability that they say,


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[Assistant] Finally, we got John Lynch. He's never done it before, but here's a six-year deal. Here's Kyle Shanahan. He's a smart guy, six-year deal. And I also think


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[Assistant] The carousel of coaches out there. He's gonna have a really long leash. Now if Jimmy G is healthy this whole year, and they don't perform, maybe that leash gets a little shorter.


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[Assistant] Uhm, still got three years after this coming year, but people just like him.


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[Assistant] Let's wrap it up here, we've got a couple more things to go here before we say goodbye on our inaugural episode. Inaugural?


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[Assistant] Projectability. People love projectability. It's why the high school basketball players always were drafted so highly. Cause like, ah, you could be anything. You mold them into.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's over. Sorry. Negative Ghost Rider. They don't even get another first round pick. They just lost it. They gotta hope that three years down the road, Kyler's like, you know what? I made a mistake. I'm gonna go play baseball.


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[Assistant] Uhm, so, you know, it wasn't that long ago where people thought it was a foregone conclusion that Dwayne Haskins out of Ohio State would go higher than Kyler Murray. Now it seems like a foregone conclusion that Kyler Murray will go ahead of Dwayne Haskins. Is Dwayne Haskins locked in at number two? Is that what you're hearing?