[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Take synthetics and, and as best they can, you know, mimic down. So I know that's a long kind of passionate drawn out answer, but for me, there is no compromise on sleeping bags. They have to be synthetic if you're going in the back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, I'm not, you know, again, I try not to be, I've got my opinions, but I try not to be, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you know that down bags are expensive and the reality is they're not just, they're a little bit more fragile, so they're not going to last quite as long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, at the end of the day when I'm packing up, and believe me, I used to be the weight zealot. I mean, to the point where I've compromised safety.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'm out there to enjoy myself now and the reality is I want to enjoy myself and I also want to come home. And I put my wife through the wringer enough that, you know, I just bought a little inReach Mini and all this kind of stuff. But you know, I've, I've lived and hunted in some really,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the, the peace of mind to know that that sleeping bag for instance is going to be there for me every single time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I try to save where it doesn't compromise my safety. Um, but I try to bring the stuff that I know is going to work and kind of like I say, be idiot proof for me that cause you know, your cognitive function and stuff starts to go over the course of time. You've just done two hunts this year. You know, you're not eating good. You're not sleeping as well. You know, you're not hydrated and you're, you're,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The little details sometimes, you know, kind of start to elude you and that's, you know, going back to the training with your weapon. That's why it's so important to just work on instinct at that point, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, and that, and that's, but that's the thing in really bad weather. You know, I like to say you can get away with something until the day you don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So just one more thing about sleeping bags is when you're picking the weight, uhm, so I'm a proponent of sleeping in your clothes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why am I going to take it off at night and only let it work 18 hours a day for me and then have to bring a heavier sleeping bag to stay warm at night? Okay. When I could get in the bag with my clothes on, any moisture in my system is going to get pushed through. I can bring a lighter weight bag, which means less weight and volume.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, um, I have, and I'm certainly not promoting this, but you know, for 15 years I ran around.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably lower than 12,000 feet, but year round, winter, summer in mountain ranges with a 30 degree sleeping bag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's, it's a lot of, it's a lot of what I wore. It's a lot of what I ate and drank. So hydration and nutrition are a huge component of that. Um, and then there's a couple of little tricks that probably can't get into right now. But my point is I have that sleeping system or I have that clothing system now working for me 24 hours a day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I get up in the morning and I've already got it on, I can bring a lighter weight bag,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you know, you get in there with puffy gear on and a hat and stuff like that. You don't need, you don't need a zero degree bag. If you're going to zero degree temps, you may be able to get away with a 20 degree bag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Comfort, I mean, I think you touched on it without actually saying it, but, so the, the one of the biggest things you can do to stay warm, uhm, is get on a good ground pad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, you know, the ground pad you choose is, is critical. You know, anything that holds, holds dead air. So any of the inflatable ones are great. Some have like space blanket type materials, but, but not only warmth, but comfort. Cause my hips just start to ache. And honestly, at the end of the day, if I can't sleep,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the longest and luckily this will hopefully this is the longest I will ever be stuck in a tent, but you know, the longest I've been stuck in a tent is four days because of weather. I mean, you just literally.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hilleberg makes some amazing tents. They will definitely stand up to the weather, keep you safe, and then they have so many


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there's definitely one that's probably cut out for you or that particular


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's refinement of systems, you know, if we, if we want to, for instance, keep to the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keep to the backpack hunting, you know, which I know a lot of people do, you know, the way, the way I, so I don't have to eat a lot of food. That's a benefit to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, to, to keep functioning either today or a day in the mountains, but uhm, yeaah, I like to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We call it in the military field stripping our meals. So I know some people make their own freeze dried. I'm a person that...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, freezer, Ziploc bag, and then I supplement them. So I'll supplement them with, you know, any kind of seasoning I want or,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, dry cheese, beef jerky, anything I can to kind of up the, up the calories, um, kind of get it balanced where I want it to be. Um, a lot of times I'll carry a little, uh, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, squeeze tube of different, different oils, almond oil, avocado oil, olive oil, something like that to add fat, especially when it's, when you're getting cold and getting into these later seasons, but I'll field strip those meals. I'll put them in the either gallon Ziploc or I'll split it into two quart size Ziplocs. Um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I roll them up and one thing you'll notice is one, it makes a much smaller package than the prepackaged stuff. It produces a lot less.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, trash and it's a lot less weight, right? So I can get a lot more of those meals into a smaller, uh, smaller area. The other thing I do, which is completely kind of counter to what, what most people do is that because I've got that quality zipper freezer, uh, uh, zippered bag, um, freezer bag that I boil my water and I pour the hot water right into that bag. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I eat it out of the bag. And quite frankly, if you don't like eating out of a bag, then you're probably in the wrong line of work. We just like to say, but you know, if you're, if you're cooking food in a cook pot, you're going to eventually at some point make yourself sick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, you know, not to get too graphic, but if it's bad weather or something like that, that Ziploc, which is next to me, you know, say that night's meals, not the one with all the trash in it. I may urinate in that bag in the middle of the night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're, uh, what are those things, uh, honey stingers and stuff like that. Like you'd be amazed at how much less weight and bulk you're carrying. I'm not compromising my safety. I'm just trying to be efficient.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, that's one thing. The other thing I like to carry, uh, outside of food is I like to carry a small little foam pad to sit on. Uhm, you know, if I'm sitting there glassing,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, my butt's going to get cold if I sit right on the, right on the rock or the ground. And so again, that comfort thing, you know, that's just another thing that I do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well and you wanna, you wanna bring food that you're gonna eat. Yeaah. Cause especially when you start getting run down physically, like sometimes the last thing you wanna do is eat. Yeaah. What you have to. Yeaah. You know? And, uh, so, you know, I'm...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I love to eat and actually I love to cook. I really enjoy cooking. I cook every night that I'm at home. I cook dinner and not just like something small like I make. I really enjoy it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, like I told you, I've really been enjoying, uh, the podcast with you too. And the guests you've had on. So it's been great. I listen to all of them. Like I said, I'm, I'm a sponge. I want to be as good as I can be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And do more of it. It'd be fun to get Corey on here too, right? Yeah. Love to, I don't think I've ever been on a podcast with Corey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well Elk Hunters, thanks for tuning in to episode 8 of the Elk Talk Podcast. I'm Randy Newberg. And I'm Corey Jacobson.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we are in the middle of elk season. Cory, you've been traveling way more than I have. I don't know about that. You must have some really good stories that you're going to tell the audience between now and next elk season. Yea, we've got some really good stories to tell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool. I've been watching them on Instagram. What's your Instagram handle so people can go watch them if they're not?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That this elk talk podcast is brought to them, thanks to the great folks at the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Absolutely. They are ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. Uhm, who else makes this possible? We got...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I've been using the Apex stuff, the new...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Synthetic, my favorite part of that is that synthetic merino blend shirt or whatever you call it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Man, I got really, let me put it this way. Other people in New Mexico got a lot stinkier than I did over the last 12 days.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, ehm, for me, I, I had a guest hunter and he'd never used Merino. And, uh, he thought it was, in fact, I think he stole the, the version I, er, the set I brought for him. I don't think it ended up back in my truck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've been using the Vital and Big Game Vital, uh, the replaceable blade knives now since they came out with them. And, uh, you know, I kinda skipped the elk hunting thing and I went to Alaska, right? And did a sheep hunt and a Sitka blacktail hunt. Uh, got to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it has the little hex screws that are perfect because there's three of them that fit my bow and all my accessories on my bow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's got a whole string of, uh, of different heads you can put in there. Bits. Uh, and it's got the normal knife, the pliers, all that kind of stuff. So, it works pretty good. Very cool. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, uh, you know, you were gonna supposedly send me some of your, uh, your line of calls. Don't you have your own, like, Corey Jacobson is the rock star line of calls out at Rocky Mountain Running Calls? Or am I gonna have to buy those?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool, so if people go to Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls and they use promo code Elk Talk, will they get 15% off those, uh, Elk 101 calls?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gohunt.com is still running their 30 day free trial. I don't know how much longer they're going to keep doing it, but if you want to have the best information at your fingertips, all the research that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, a lot of us use for finding units, drawing tags, draw odds, application strategies, you name it. You want to have that Go Hunt insider at your fingertips. And right now, if you were to go, go to gohunt.com forward slash elk talk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can sign up for the 30 day free trial. You get everything. None of this will tease you a little bit here or there. The whole works is available for 30 days free. Free is good, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gohunt.com forward slash elk talk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, pretty, yeah. And then the last one, you're, uh, you've probably been using this some of the places you've been traveling as the ONNX system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty awesome. Yeah, I just got, and we'll get into where we've been and where we're going, but I just got back from New Mexico in a unit I've never hunted before and there's a lot more private land in that unit than most places I hunt in New Mexico and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If anyone's listening and doesn't have it yet, uh, I-I...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm surprised if they don't. But if you don't, go to onyxmaps.com and use promo code elktalk and get yourself 20% off that app. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So with all that out of the way, Cory, this is like a mid-season catch-up. What are, what's today's date? September 18th.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you and I have been going different directions and we'll be going different directions for the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At least the next few months or couple months. Because we're in the middle of elk season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have to have a day or two back to the real world or...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And was here for four or five days and then headed to New Mexico and I just got back two days ago. And then I'm off to Colorado in two days from there to Wyoming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I got home, my wife said, what do you want for dinner? I said, I don't care. Just whatever you cook. I'm sure I'm going to eat the entire thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dehydrated meals, I don't think the human body was built to subsist specifically on dehydrated food.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you willing to share with me some of these, or do you want me to continue to deteriorate and have my health and my longevity suffer because of the poor quality of, not poor quality, but the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The inhuman consumption of fiber that, and salts that I've been subjecting myself to, or is that like top secret that you're not gonna share?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Trust me, that won't be a problem. You know where to find me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is it a company or is it something you're making and putting together yourself?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I grabbed some of their breakfast stuff. Yeah. Are they, I think they were the ones who made the raspberry and granola and the strawberry and granola that I had. Yup, that's it. I am on that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm, I'm, that, that's tall, that's, for me, I usually look forward to the dinner, but, uh, because I haven't found a good dinner replacement, I was eating more breakfast than I was dinner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, I was on Cody's podcast, Rich Outdoor Podcast, and he turned me on to that backcountry fuel box, and I took four of the boxes that he'd sent to New Mexico, and we just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Experimented. Everybody in the crew grabbed something different of what worked and what they liked and everyone issued a report, but I'm grateful to Cody for, uh, for putting that together. That's where I found out about that peak breakfast, uh, stuff and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're thankful that he's doing that because it's definitely widened our horizons. But I'd be interested if people listening have other ideas. Marcus said he's going to start making some at home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know how you make that stuff at home, I'm not that smart, but I'm, I'm to the point where I'm gonna start doing something because I've, I calculated that, uh, in New Mexico I'd eaten my 25th day of dehydrated food meals already this season and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, that, that gets us into one of the, I think we've already started down the path. One of the topics that we wanted in this mid-season catch-up is, uh, what's working. I think we talked about the sick APEC stuff working. Uh, sounds like you've come up with some, some really good ideas on the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The food, nutrition, energy, calories solution, uh, or issue. Any other things on the what's working? Eh, I, cause I know you're like me, Corey, every year you're tweaking and experimenting with something different. And, uh, I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, for me, I just, I have now become so addicted to the aerial.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's, I don't know what water filtration system you use, but I use a combination, uh, mostly I use catadines, sometimes I use platypuses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But Katadyn has this new thing called the B3. Like B, B, E, and then free. And it comes in a 1 liter and a 3 liter. And it has a built in water filter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, as quick as we get to water, we just make sure those things get filled up. And so, it's a bladder that in the mouth piece, the, whatever you want to call it, the drinking spout,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Either way, you can drink directly from it or you just, you can, if you squeeze the bladder really hard, you will end up with water coming out and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is my, my e-scouting plans, uh, for me to have done a series with OnX on e-scouting when they see my New Mexico hunt, they're gonna be like, Newberg, it took you five days to get into the elk. What kind of e-scouting plan did you have put together?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, we're going to show people. I mean, I went down there and we were in the unit just north of where you and I had hunted a few years ago and I'd never been there before. My, my number one A spot, the monsoon had come and washed the road out. So here I am.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and you and I have talked about this on past podcasts and my camera crew is asking me, Randy, how long are you going to give this spot? And my guest owner is asking the same thing. We went into some of these spots. We saw no tracks, no fresh droppings, no rubs. I said, this is all I'm giving this spot. I'm, I've only got seven days.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I gotta find some elk and I'm not wasting three of these days by saying, Oh, I know they're here somewhere. I pulled the plug and we reset camp four different times on this hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And just what, what I had to do in a place. I mean, my hunting was really my scouting or my scouting was part of my hunting depending on how you want to say that, but I gave no place more than a day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I went in there, didn't hear anything, didn't see much. I'm like, you know what? There's gotta be elk here somewhere, but this isn't the somewhere that they're at. So we hunted every corner of that very large unit before we stumbled into enough elk that we found worthwhile.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well then, I made a huge mistake. Uh, I think it was the fourth or fifth day, fourth day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We talked to a BLM person and he said, yeah, they got the road fixed going into that spot. They fixed it today. So that was my A spot and it had a trailhead and my goal was park at the trailhead and we're going to take the llamas in six miles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we get there that night. Yep. The road had been repaired. We stake out our llamas, set up our camp and we get up really early in the morning right at the trailhead and we're packing the llamas and there's two bulls bugling across


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We should have just went right after those elk right there and not finished packing our llamas. We should have just said, you know what, we can come back and do this in the daylight. Yep. Well, I didn't do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Finally, it gets light, we get the llamas all packed up and we make a loop over there. Well, by this time it's nine or eight thirty in the morning. Well, when you're having those warm 85 degree days, they're heading to their beds early and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, we never got a response out of those elk once they went to their beds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what'd we do? We left elk to find elk. So we take the llamas in six miles, one way, fully loaded, carrying water, carrying all of our production gear, and we did not hear a bugle in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know that, I mean, whether you're fishing or hunting, you don't leave fish to find fish, you don't leave bugling elk to find bugling elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All I could do is turn to the camera and say, guys, I screwed it up. You know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I should know better, as many years I've been hunting elk, but that's what I did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, or get up earlier and go in the dark and do more inventory counting. Yup. I, I just, I kicked myself because those two bulls were really getting with it. And you know how it is. That's one of the things you hope for is that you end up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you can put yourself between two bulls that want to show off. It's like, that was such a perfect setup. And what'd I do? I stayed at the trailhead packing our gear and getting our llamas loaded thinking, oh, six miles in there'll be 12 bulls bugling, not just two. Well, we got in there and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was just way drier than expected. It's amazing how localized the monsoon was down there. At the trailhead in west it was all green and where we went in it was pretty much brown and for an elk to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Transport himself or move five or six miles or a cow for better food?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, that happens all the time. I mean, those cows are going where the best food is and it may not be in the drainage that you've put on your e-scouting plan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you better be ready to move and adapt. And I think one of the things that did work for that hunt, we had seven days, I had a spot on my map for every day if need be. And because I had a plan and I was confident in it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't have any second thoughts about pulling stakes and moving camp four times. Everyday being in a different place, whereas if I didn't have a plan put together, I probably would have just hung out, said, oh, they gotta be here somewhere, and my hunt would have been over and I wouldn't have seen any elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, what we did on day five is I just sat down and did in kind of what you were saying in inventory.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said, all right, we got two days left. Where are the places we saw the most sign, heard the most bugles? It just seemed to be more appealing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And those are the places we're going to focus our last two days and the last two days we had really close encounters that, you know, sometimes it's just bad luck. Uh, sometimes it just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doesn't work out, but the last two days, once we kind of did that assessment and said, all right, here's how much we've, I guess, eliminated of the unit. Here are the two small areas we're going to focus on. We, we had a really good hunt the last two days.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool. Well, yeah, he, uh, he's going to get shown a good time. I'm sure of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I hope so. It'd be fun to take somebody and do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I always tell people I have way more fun helping someone take their first elk than if I was to shoot another elk myself. Totally. Yup. Speaking of giveaways, uh, you mind if I throw in a little plug here? Remember how I told you I'd probably not do any more sweepstakes?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, we say we're not doing any more of that and what are you doing tomorrow? You're going to do one. And the Elk Foundation called me and the folks at OnX called me and they said, Randy, would you do an Elk Hunt sweepstakes for 2019? And as


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My mind gets all excited about maybe helping someone kill their first out. I completely forget about the pact you and I made that we weren't doing anymore sweepstakes. Hanson, the first words out of my mouth were, sure, let's do that. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If people want to enter that sweepstakes for 2019, we're doing it as a rifle hunt. A lot of people have asked if we could do it as an archery hunt. Unfortunately, and people are going to say, how can your calendar get filled this far in advance? But my September calendar next year is already filled, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the way to enter, you can go out to onX.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, maps.com or go to rmef.org. They have the links out there. If you want to see the video with all the details of it, you can go to our YouTube channel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we just posted up a video the other day about how you win this elk hunt. And it's, we're going to apply them in Wyoming in January, whoever the winner is. If they don't draw there, we're going to apply them in Montana. And if they don't draw there, we've got the fallback option of an over the counter hunt in October or in November in Colorado. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're going somehow, and that includes travel, sick of gears thrown in, a whole set of gear for them, uh, we'll provide everything. So, hopefully some people will sign up, uh, I don't know, they might say, hunting with Newberg? No thanks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a five day hunt. They're probably going to say, well, if it took him five days to find elk and to peek her out, why would I want to go with them in a post-rutter late hunt? But I can't promise you somewhere along the way we will find a Dairy Queen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I mean, it might be a glorified Dairy Queen visit, but I think we'll have fun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's awesome. So from there then, so you're doing all this and we don't want to let the cat out of the bag Cory, but you're going to take this season that you're doing here and then it's going to be on your Elk101 YouTube channel in November?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've been doing a lot of day by day hunts, if you want to call it that. We just do them by the hunt, we don't do a whole season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We just show the struggles and the challenges and let the chips fall where they may.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's fun to do it that way because it's just real. It's just, this is what happened. Like my New Mexico hunt that they're gonna see.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just admit, you know, even though I have these platforms doesn't make me the world's greatest expert. Look, I've spent most of the summer researching this and I show up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And everything's different than I expected. That's just how it is. And uh, so, as boring as it might be the first few days of this day by day New Mexico hunt, I hope the audience looks at it as the lesson of here's how you try to get through a challenging hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone wants to have these perfect, hey, I showed up, everything went according to plan, the elk read the script. But that's the exception, not the rule. So this will be, here's how we fight through it. Here's how we continue to push forward, even though it looks pretty bleak.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go do that, folks. You'll, you'll enjoy it, I'm sure. And it's interesting that you will have wrapped up most of your elk hunting by, what, October sometime?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, we did New Mexico, uh, I, my crew here, Michael and Dan and Marcus.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've sent them out every day since we've got home. I told them your job is you have to go elk hunting every morning between now and October 1st or you're fired.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're out right now, uh, chasing elk here in, in Montana. Uh, yesterday they reported to me that they found eight grouse, eight, and they got zero. I told them- Hold on, they got zero?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I asked him, I'm like, how can you not kill at least half of those? You should have had four grouse.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They gave me the kind of mush mouth answer. I told them that's another grounds for getting fired is not getting at least half the grouse you encounter. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I dunno, I gotta go to Colorado and then Wyoming, otherwise I'd be out there on grouse detail. I'd just tell them, you guys leave the grouse to me, but, oh well, duty calls, so. Man. I know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So once we do that, once they're done here, then we really get into the elk hunting. We've got two Montana elk hunts, or rifle elk hunts, both of them in Montana in October.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we've got Wyoming. We've got two really good elk tags there. My son and my uncle, those are November tags. So we'll really be picking up our elk hunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hope it goes well, and part of that is just, that's where I kinda...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Learned and made all my mistakes was mostly in rifle hunting in the post wrap period in the late season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, when I go with you, uh, and we're hunting these archery hunts, I'm taking serious notes. I don't really even care if I shoot anything, I'm just taking notes. So, I guess we'll call that a trade-off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, there's been a tragic event happened last week in Wyoming. Sad to read about it. A lot of people I think listening and probably read about that guide outside of Jackson Hole got, him and his client got mauled by a grizzly bear and it ended up


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where this, it's just hard to even think about someone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just feel for what his family must go through, but it has generated a ton of emails for me. I don't know about you, but people asking about hunting in grizzly country, and I don't know if where you were at in Wyoming this year, if that was grizzly country or not, but, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It definitely is something that you have to be aware of in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming if you're going to hunt elk in the rut especially.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And for, for us, every time we hunt in grizzly country, we try to do some informational pieces about what we're doing and I subscribe to the theory of the best way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] End up in the wrong end of a bad luck situation, no matter how hard you try. I've, I've done everything I can many times to avoid it, but I've had twice where.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It ended up with me and a grizzly bear, you know, 20 yards apart. And for me, fortunately, both times turned out positive and the bear went the other direction. But for me, it's about keeping clean camps, stuff like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, when you're there from the reports anyhow, they were processing an elk out in the field and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something happened. All the details obviously aren't yet clear, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were just walking into it. Okay, I, I, I might have made some assumptions when I read it. I thought they were, they'd found the elk and they were, uh, field dressing it or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've lived in Montana 27 years and every year we have a couple.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As tragic as that is for that family, as it relates to my hunting, I'm going to continue to hunt how I do. It's a reminder to me that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you can be as prepared as you want. This guide in Wyoming, I'm sure it spent many years in the back country with grizzly bears and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I accept the risk, I hope it never comes to be reality, but the pleasures I get in chasing elk and I want to chase them where there are more of them and that there's older age classes, that makes my compass head


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Towards these spots that the grizzly bears also seem to inhabit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess the answer I'm providing is no, it's not going to change my habit of hunting in grizzly country, but it does serve as a reminder that you just, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You do everything you can to avoid it and prevent it, but accept the risk of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even as prepared as you might be, it might not be enough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, and you know, the part for me, I'd say the time I get the most unnerved is once we have an animal on the ground and we're cutting it up and we're hanging the meat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That whole period I'm somewhat unnerved, but then if we have to come in for a second trip, and usually we do, and I know that carcass has been laying there, and that meat, even though I hang the meat 300 yards or, you know, whatever distance away from the carcass and the gut piles,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I come back in that second time, that's probably when I'm on the highest alert. That's like, uh, gosh. And I never go in and get that second load in the dark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've thought about that before and I've just always told myself, you know what, go in, my hearing's already compromised due to old age and abuse of my ears, so I'm going in there with mostly visual acuity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Completely saturated with what it can handle of grizzly bears and you get into their core places. There are a lot of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they're not accustomed to having to accommodate you. They expect you to accommodate them and they're, they're called horribilis. I think Ursa horribilis is horrible. Uh, they're called that for a reason.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have an attitude and this time of year, what is it? Hyperphasia, I think is the term. They're, they're putting on the feed bag in a big way. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mauling death happen within days of each other. Definitely has the grizzly bear issue high on everyone's radar list at this point, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our two rifle hunts are right on the fringe. The October rifle hunts in Montana are on the fringe. There's occasional grizzly that goes through there, but it's not in the core habitat. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I won't be that unalert for grizzlies there, but it's just part of what I accept in the places that I like to hunt, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, one thing I want to get through here before we wrap up, I had it written on my notes, is hunting elk when it's 85 degrees.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In New Mexico, we had highs ranging, I think one day it was 84, another day it was always bouncing between 84 and 86 degrees.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my experience was we had a perfect moon phase. It was a new moon. We'd had a serious monsoon that washed out the roads the week before we got there. So there was water in every little mud puddle. There was water in every low spot, every depression. Uh, uh, it just seems that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And not just this hunt, but when you and I hunted down there two years ago, when I'm hunting in Montana when it's been really hot, the elk are starting to do their thing, but they're doing it at night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, they were done talking and they were in their beds within a half hour after the sun coming up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they weren't getting out of their beds until 20 minutes before the end of shooting light. And I don't know, I don't have a solution to that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well and for me I could have easily written off that there are no elk here, but in the two places we ended up as our final spots for the last two days, we knew there were elk in there because we were seeing lots of sign, lots of tracks,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They weren't saying anything, they weren't bugling just because of what you mentioned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we knew they were there, so we kept hunting. Finally, the, the last...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did I go to a different spot today? Where were all these, oh, the last couple days?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I committed, uh, blasphemy, if you want to call it that. I hate sitting water.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I tried everything. My tag's still in my pocket, but we did have some close encounters. Uhm, I thought I was gonna get to try a frontal shot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I had a, a little raghorn come running and we called, we, have you ever done this thing, my camera guy Marcus calls it a cow party, whenever he, he glasses up, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, raghorn or a younger bull, they just cow call like crazy. And we saw this group of seven raghorns and small five points. So we climbed out on this ridge and three of us just started whining on the cow calls.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can hear this coming through the Juniper Pinyon stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just decided, you know, if he walks around that tree, he's only going to be about five or six yards away. I might try a frontal shot then, but I'm not accomplished enough archer to do it at a distance much more than that. But it was, uh, it was interesting to see five bulls come run, literally running. You could hear them coming. I'd never experienced that before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were not, uh, they weren't big old mature bulls, uh, which is part of why we decided to do this. We knew they were all two and a half and three and a half year old bulls.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Boy, that was, that was interesting to, to, we didn't see him coming, you could hear him coming, and you know how that thick pinion juniper is, you don't see him until, well, I thought I was going to have an extra minute or two to find some shooting lanes, but no, he was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then naturally they come in from behind you instead of the way you think they're gonna come in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cooled off that I think they came in, that was about 9.30 in the morning and the sun was coming up about 6.30, so we got them up out of their beds and they came on the dead run, literally. Well, on the live run, none of them were dead, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We wait 11 months for this prime period and it's here, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hopefully they're out doing it and they understand that if there's a, we miss a week or something in the podcast that, uh, it's because we're out, quote unquote, doing it. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For me the fun part of this year is everybody I run into, I get a little bit of a debriefing of what they've been encountering and where they've been and to me that's helpful in how I'm viewing what's going on out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you have the ONNX system and you click the layer on that says RMEF properties, what those are, they're not properties owned by RMEF, it's properties RMEF has acquired and turned over to either the Forest Service, the BLM, or the state agency. And so you'll see this Middle Creek one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's that kind of support that helps RMEF do a project like this and they bought 28 acres and that 28 acres is where a county or a little two track road went through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And blocked access. There was a gate on it. Well, RMEF acquires this, turns it over, I believe to the BLM, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look at it on your ONNX system and you'll definitely see it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Their time, talent and money that they put towards the Elk Foundation, how it's tangible results for those of us who hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That Colorado one is a good example. There's, I just, I called over to headquarters and said, Hey, what's the number of acres that you've improved access to as of today? And they said, right now we're at 1.2 million acres.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a lot of elk hunting ground that now has either access that wasn't there before or improved the access that was there. So, cool stuff for those of us who hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, I, I end up that, that question applies a lot of times in rifle hunting for us because by that time in the post rut or late season, you're not going to be doing a lot of calling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, you certainly, just like in what you talked about, you don't want to be skylined. So, we will use ridges, because like you said, you can cover so much ground with ridges. Also, if you're up higher,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We use ridges a lot, but if there's a bald spine ridge, we're going to be off on the shaded side of that ridge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, whatever it is, but we're gonna try our best to stay on the shaded side of the ridge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Usually also if there is any cover on the ridge, it's going to be on that shaded north or east side. And so it allows you to cover a lot of terrain in a hurry and do it without looking like a big light bulb up there because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's, it just, it requires, you know, two or three minutes of looking at it and saying, okay, I can do this and this is how I can negotiate this ridge or get over to that next series of canyons, the head of those or to this next spine without having to show the whole elk world where I'm at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well everybody, thanks for listening. I hope you get out and do your elk hunting. Uh, it is the season. Don't, uh, don't waste it sitting at home watching TV. Absolutely. Football is not that important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, people just discover us on YouTube. The algorithm is just like, you might like these crazy two people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, Sylvie, 260 fight, uh. Veterans.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, uh, and if you're new to the podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We go deep dive on Muay Thai, Thailand Muay Thai topic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We go deep, deep in. So if you are bored by the first thing that we're on or like, whoa, what are they going into? You can jump usually 30 minutes ahead and you'll find another topic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, and we do want to be doing these Bones more frequently because our listeners are like, we love the Bones, please more and more, and you are a huge podcast addict.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Five percent of the time, you are basically complaining that you don't have a podcast to listen to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You are just like waiting for your favorite podcast to come out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so I imagine that there are some people who are like, there's another Muay Thai bones.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, so in normal Muay Thai, oh, I always throw this in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The entire Muay Thai Bones playlist is available for everyone, but if you become a supporter, even a dollar supporter,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On Patreon, you can get the audio subscription to it for however you listen to your podcasts, and you get the reading notes and the time stamps.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reading notes are kind of like deep dive footnotes that we basically... What? Go ahead then. You had something there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have a whole network of things. And so in the reading notes we try to put in these kind of like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The references that are not necessarily even directly connected, but they're in the web of ideas so that you can take an even deeper dive in the bones if you go to the patron post.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically, it's filled with rabbit holes. Like everything is a rabbit hole. And there are things that we didn't necessarily even have time to go down that rabbit hole. But also to mention, we also put out a Muay Thai Bones podcast newsletter, which every couple of weeks or three weeks is filled with these little articles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was the same as two weeks, but it felt like it filled up very fast. But it basically is all the little news of Thailand of videos to watch and techniques and whatever. Every couple of weeks we put this out and these are things that feed our brain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Instagram or whatever these, uh, Facebook pages are, are good sources for who fought whom or even announcements and things. But they basically just share each other's material back and forth. So it's a kind of like monocrop of news. We are like the opposite of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We basically just cover small events that might be missed in Thai news, or just little things like, I think I need to put in there about Mr. Horsepower Knee, that post you put up. Jockey. Jockey. Old Silver Age. Was he Silver Age?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things like that, little keeping up with the legends in the library and stuff. So, you can subscribe to that for free either way, uhm, we'll put a link into it, into the, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Description, as we do. So, our first topic is one of the like, I'll say this, I don't even know what this topic is, because when Sylvie came and said, I have to do this, I wanna talk about this thing, and she's like, we could do it on a multi-bones, or I can just do it as a vlog. But you basically were like, I just gotta go off on this thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's okay, we go into it now. I'm just saying, I don't even really know what this is fully, just like listeners don't know. So, I'm looking forward to it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there might be a blog post out there if you are a very close reader of Sylvie over the years. If you know this blog post, where we wrote about this, please let us know because we can put it in the reading notes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, but you're talking, like, we don't have to blow it out to the whole world. We're talking about your experience in a Thai gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you say castrate, we understand the concept and it's an extreme word, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's almost a theoretical word though, it's powerful and theoretical, but what is, there is something about a Thai gym. We began up at Lana, which even though it was a Westerners gym that had a lot of Thai structure,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It had a very strong, the north in Chiang Mai is politically, is socially much more conservative than the center and the south and, or at least the center.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because, there's one you want to be treated like a fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? But then there's, well you're also developing relationships with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With comb fighters, often they're Thai boys that are your training partners and there's this like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Absolutely nothing can become sexual. Like even two steps from sexual.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sexual is too strong of a word, even, but it's almost too big, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that, maybe that was where the castration article that you thought you wrote about a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well not even get by, you could be celebrated for it, that that's her kind of personality, the outgoing personality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That this happened. And we're not talking about actual transgressive stuff where you're like, uh, hitting on a Thai boy or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not, this is not, we're not talking about stuff that's transgressive and we, we do know, uh, stories of some western women that come to tie gyms and are transgressive because they have a freedom of not being in their own culture and they can't fill the boundaries of the other culture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They feel, yeaah, there is a kind of empowerment sometimes of like, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a very real thing, and so, this is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hope people who are listening this actually understand, can identify with parts of this, but it's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fact of the matter is, in most cultures, the social power that a woman has is often sexuality. Like that is how it's expressed. If you want to be very broad about it, the men co-op the money and then the women become this sexual object or power.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We talk about two economies. One is an erotic economy and one is a monetary economy. Women, this is just being very broad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a woman trying to enter into a Thai gym, where you're trying to be taken seriously as a fighter, being trained as a fighter, which is in Thailand,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Muay Thai is hyper-masculinity. You're being actually conditioned and trained how to be a man in a way. If you're in a real kai moi, all the boys who are like 13 to 16 are all being trained


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's you, like, acting like a, uh, 12 year old kid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that was a crazy moment for both of you. Although she probably didn't completely understand that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, you often brush over this, but Angie began her entire path towards Muay Thai. What was she? 30? 28 or something?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she started in part because of seeing Sylvie in the gym and seeing what Sylvie was doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is a kind of trans project. I write about this actually. You basically are a woman raised in your culture as a woman and then you go to another culture and you take on a project of hypermasculinity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, and so she saw that, and she saw the possibility for herself. I still don't even completely understand this, how it makes sense to herself. She sees a western woman, older western woman, like in general, I don't know, is that someone else? That's somewhere else. I don't know. She sees an older western woman


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Passing as hyper tie masculinity in the gym and she's inspired who is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Born gendered male by the culture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Heading on this project towards trans female and she's like, I wanna take on the project of hypermasculinity because look what she's done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, I, but I want to make super clear, this is not about you complaining that these


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is about the consequences of what you had to do in order to have opportunity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the, the awareness of these consequences are still playing out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not something you did five years ago. It's something you still do every single day at the gym. And it's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not just lazy, it's also like a way to make them feel welcome to have them, like you're running a business also and you want someone to feel like not a stranger.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And keep in mind, if you guys don't know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She is the most experienced western fighter in the history of Thailand, man or woman. 259 fights in the country. Like there are very few people on the planet more invested in fighting than Sylvie. And still...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a gym that is very open-minded in many ways, like Pino changed his mind about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, trans women, he was against them and then Angie, he evolved in her example, but still there are dividers going on along these gender lines. I want to start and stop because this is going on. Continuing on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is a place I want to get to, I have a good point, but do you have other things you want to pull on this? It's such a big topic because it honestly has touched almost every moment of your time in any Thai gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so unique, every one of them. But this is the thing. One reason why women have to train that hard is to balance out the books.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of the absence of their sexuality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we're not saying women need to be sexual in the gym. It's just the fact that if you are going to cut off the common mode of social power,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're being put at a cultural power deficit in a social space because the things by which you signal


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Autonomy and authority in that space.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That currency has almost only negative...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's not only that, if you try to use those dollars, bad things happen. It's not that it has no value. Those notes mean something in that culture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More or differently than they mean in your own culture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as a westerner too. Yeah, so you're a westerner doing this, and it's like uhm, I don't, there was an article written a long time ago,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Laura Del Faro wrote about how, and it was probably an exaggeration, but they were basically, she was basically describing how western women are perceived as free prostitutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] by uhm, some ties. They're basically women that you could have sex with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ability to have sex with someone. And so when you come in as a, just take me seriously as a fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You are swimming against a strong current that almost has nothing to do with the actual gym. It's the, it's the culture, it's the currents that are flowing in the culture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keep in also mind that women now are, are much further along in this path. Remember when Anne Quinlan came and watched you do pad work?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I was about to tell, you jumped on me on that. And Quinlan was like one of the first Western women to ever train seriously in Thailand. She trained at Si Yotong and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I don't think it was in the 80s, but maybe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She watched you do regular pad work, it was a private, boxing pad work, private with Nung, was a WBC champion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and it was just basic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Boxing, pad work, like combination holding, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, some instruction. She said she had tears in her eyes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just watching basic pad work. Yep. It just, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being taken seriously, also because the economics of multi-gyms have changed, so you have to take women seriously because that's what the business is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we're, we're also saying that there are lots of opportunities, but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a more personal story, which is about your own experiences of being


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Having to castrate yourself in social spaces where you are trying to become a great Muay Thai fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because of these, these networks of who you are and how you're treated, you actually don't train in the gym full time. You train yourself. You go and train yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In gyms by yourself on a bag somewhere else, you have created a kind of constellation of training, which involves one-on-one training with Yo Kumpan, going to another gym and just training yourself where nobody fucking bothers you, and going back, going into the social gym and getting some of that goodness of communal training. But part of why


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to create these alternate training spaces is so that you can explore your fucking whole person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The whole person's relationship to Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if it's too early to jump to this, but it's like, people are like, might be like, sexuality, everybody's gotta put their sexuality on hold in the gym, check your sexuality at the door, it's not a sexual space. Was that weird? Like right on?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sexuality is inherently woven into peacocking.


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[Assistant] Male fighters, in however they are, especially Yod Mui of Thailand, they develop their own version of peacocking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Muay Thai in Thailand is not about aggression. Like a lot of people love the aggressiveness of Muay Thai. It's about dominance. It's about...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is why the sexuality is incredibly linked towards the dominance of Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not that it's sexual wool, like I'm taking you as my sexual partner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the fabric of peacocking, of having pride and dominance over the space, which is going to pull in threads of sexuality. It just necessarily would. One of your favorite fighters of all time, who you've trained a ton with and has influenced you so much, is Karahat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you watch his fights, there is sexuality in the ring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not sexuality towards his opponent. It's about the vitality he expresses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's why we're talking about sexuality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Raghadosha and his like dominance over everyone. You cannot separate the sexuality from the dominance. They're woven together. And this is the fucking...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hard part, it's like, if you're doing Muay Thai, the Thailand of, Thailand's Muay Thai properly, you have got to tap into what the Thais call Sanay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were with, we've mentioned it before, but we were with, uhm, was it Charchai and Karahat?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To yodmoy of different sports. But they, Carhartt was complaining, wasn't it? Carhartt complaining that the great fighters of today have no sone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And zene is this magnetism.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That when you're a star, the fighter who had the most Senai would maybe be Summar, one reason why people consider him the greatest. You have this magnetism that is expressing a kind of like, it's a power over people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, but the cultivation of yod muay muay thai involves the evo, the production of and the refinement of sine of magnetism.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you are on a project of Yod Moi Moi Tai, like you really want to truly be great, you cannot do that by getting the angle of your kick right. Like, you could practice that kick all day long. You need...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Other than it being painful for many, many years, is you're on the cusp of reaching for aspects of Sané, of developing Sané in your moi, in your style.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But in situations, in situations where you're castrated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you, in a way, cannot develop magnetism.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or the magnetism you have to develop is bizarro.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, impersonation, like you can impersonate people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reason why this is developing...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that you've been sparring with him alone for over a year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even if that was being done in the gym off hours, it would not evolve in the same way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's because of the space. Even with no people in the space, the fact that someone can walk through or is watching from a window or even the walls themselves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You spar, uh, at the stables, or you spar at WKO, which is not coded for you, and it's like, you're able to experience a fuller spectrum of who you are, of the whole person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's also taken a year. Like it's slowly coming out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At all. It just gradually fills in the gaps because you're bringing more of the whole person of who you are to solving problems that are posed inspiring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Habitus is a concept developed by, uh, Bourdieu, the French sociologist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he was very interested in the ways that culture perpetuates itself through individuals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And basically he talks about the habitus are all the ways that you as a child and then as a full person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Structured. So it could be things like, do you look someone in the eye when they're talking to you? Or do you look away?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What posture do you use? And these become highly gendered and socioeconomically different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, habitus is basically the shape of the culture imprinted on you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You are rewriting things that you brought with you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's actually, but that's actually kind of what we're talking about is that we're talking about the castration.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is necessary under the habitus of a Thai gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like, you've undergone this habitus for nine years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, as you're reaching for the dragon, not the turtle, something's gotta give.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because this habitus does not let you reach Sané. Which, that magnetism, you can't have Yod Moi without Sané.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you want an example of a fighter who has some sine? Pretty good sine. It's like Petty Jaw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pechicha, though, was not raised in a kai moi. She was raised with her brother.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a family gym, and she basically was raised as a co-eco with her brother in training and everything else. And then she graduated out and now she's in the national boxing team. But she expresses her sexuality all the time as part of her confidence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it ties very much in her masculine marker stuff, ties very much in with the dominance of Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the way she fights. But this is what is necessary to get to the next level is you have to fight with magnetism and you cannot fight with magnetism if a big chunk of you is numbed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you, you have to bring that Sanay into your training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] into your sparring, into your clinching, into everything, and there's a problem, there's a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a problem there that hasn't even been figured out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a big problem. So you wanna talk about turtle and dragon now?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but looks like we're taking another bones deep dive. We did the last one. We didn't plan this one, but this is a good one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. So, immediately there's two shells that I can imagine. There's probably many.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But one is literally in fighting, you as a small fighter who fights all the time and really big people, you've developed a fighting style that is very closed and shelled protected. When you really get going in fights, there's literally in boxing the shell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The filly shell, the shell is a highly protected form of defense that allows you to like close the space, smother your opponent, grab them and, and clinch them and wreck them with knees. It's a very turtled moi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Works, like you can be really good fighters, much bigger than you, but it still is a shell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your emotional shell in the gym, which is, we've talked about it as castration, like cutting off a part of you that is extended, but it also, castration involves a kind of like closing within yourself, retreating into your shell,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, this is the weird thing, is that you, we tell stories about ourselves and one of the stories you tell is that you're not a natural extrovert, but you actually have lots of extroverted qualities that are just suppressed by how your life has gone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have like an unbelievably wicked, hilarious sense of humor, you like have a kind of like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Broadcast of personality that a lot of people, including people who followed you for many years have no idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, the most of what you know about Soviet is a very constrained version of this part of you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of it is though, back to the habitus, is that a lot of the extroverted components of you, the seeds of your potential magnetism,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have learned that they have to stay inside a shell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, to agree with you, there's a shell for a reason. It works. It protects you. It allows a certain life that, like, we fucking love turtles. Wish we had one. So, but, this is the, this is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where I might like, uh, this is where I might disagree a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, from the moment you encountered Muay Thai, which was the movie Ang Bak, everybody knows.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I believe, as someone who loves you and has been with you for so long, that the reason why you've been so drawn to Muay Thai, and particularly the Yod Muay of Muay Thai, and had these powerful drives to like, document the Yod Muay, these magnetic men, is because there is a part of you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's like the turtle that wants to be a dragon. And that the art form, the high level of art that you're reaching for is a dream of yourself. And if a turtle does dream of being a dragon, like the one in the story,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a beautiful thing for them to have the opportunity of that evolution.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you, you, if, if the dragon is not part of your training experiences, you cannot fight like a dragon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's aspects that have reached towards the dragon, like your cackle is quite famous in gyms, right? That's you just letting it flow, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, we'll make it more concrete. Things you're working on with Yoke Kumpan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In your sparring is not being shelled up all the time, uh, taking risks, taking angles, trying to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, move off rhythm. Like there's some concrete things that you're developing. You actually have a kind of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Man, but that shell is there for a fucking reason. Yes. It's not some deficit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's because there are pressures, there have been a history of pressures on you, and then in your case there's violence done to you, so there's fucking like calcium deposits of shell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that thing is there because that thing had to grow. You had to grow a shell in order to survive in situations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that is very hard because you're like, I might run into another river.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're not gonna be not training in Thailand anymore. Like these aspects of sexuality and magnetism.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to find a way to have the freedom to train them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because there's no way to really do it in a kai moi. No. Like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can do it, but there are fucking consequences. And the consequences are long term. Like, if you don't know the culture, you don't even know the consequences.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think you don't even know though, I mean it's like, what was that horrible


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Intense, because Ty's fucking love talking shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People don't realize that in the land of respect and smiles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what else, is there more that we can or should say about the turtle and the dragon? Other people facing turtle dragon type things? I feel like a lot of women


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who've suffered the consequences of their sexuality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe not in gyms, but in life. I remember in New York we were like, a lot of women in New York, in the New York scene, this was many years ago, were like, they're remarkably like, attractive women culturally, like, as a group.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So drawn to Muay Thai. And this was 10 years ago. This isn't a social study. But it was like, it was stark. But it's like, women are


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Drawn to Muay Thai, I think because it allows them the opportunity to explore parts of themselves that are suppressed or have negative consequences in their lives.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I feel like if you're drawn to Muay Thai,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a woman in particular because of the gender differential, you are trying in some way, probably,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That very disjunction between the real you and who's the real you, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is because you're under a process of transformation. The under story or the longer term story is if you come to Thailand as a woman, your sexuality becomes very problematic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so your journey to become a dragon could become problematic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are we bringing this in from the Phuket thing? Phuket announcement or?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, well, we've used this term already in this podcast, kai moi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Thailand, there's a difference between a kai moi and a gym. Would that be fair to say?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is the, is the word. A kaimoi is uhm, maybe closer to the English word camp.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's a, we talked about it actually in our last podcast too, about, it's kind of like, uh, tradition, we also talked about traditional Muay Thai gyms, authentic Muay Thai gyms are, basically we're all referring to Kai Moi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is a way of, uh, raising young Thai fighters to become stadium champions or local champions, whatever it is. But it's largely an extended family kind of hierarchy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sometimes literally organized around a particular family and their children and then...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not even sure why we're covering this topic other than it's interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm trying to find a line on this that I'm actually like interested in and excited about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mostly because I've been writing about this on the forum a lot. And so I feel like I've been like digging into the details of this. So I'm kind of like, Thailand, Thailand originally was all kai moi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was, and then sometimes they were like Powerhouse Kaimoi, which would then buy the contracts of good fighters from other parts of the country and create a kind of like Bangkok...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and they had been exposed to Westerners for a very long time, but in their head, they are of the Thailand, of Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and this to them was still a kai moi, but the truth of the matter was Lana was a really interesting version of a kai moi and a gym, a commercial gym layered on top of each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and all the westerners took it, it was on the Lana Muay Thai fight name, and it was a very, actually it was a real privilege to be part of that. It was actually at the tail end of the greatness of that gym. It was probably five years before us when it was really going in a kind of like amazing hybrid. I don't...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] An analogy that regularly appeals to me when thinking about this would be a ranch in America, like a working ranch, which where you have, you basically


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The purpose of the ranch is to raise cattle and sell them to a market and all the ranchy things of like riding on horses and- They serve a function. Yea, like everybody, everybody who's a cowboy in the ranch is working. Yea, like- They're working, it's a, it's a, it's a business but really it's a way of life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally. Like nobody is learning anything that's not part of the production of a cattle ranch, and there are lots of cultural things going on too. The habitus of the ranch, like how you eat your beans by the fire, like I don't know what it would be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It would be a little bit like, let's just say, take a foreign culture, but if Japanese, uhm, tourists, adventure tourists were obsessed with ranching, cowboy ranching, and then would come to, let's say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they wanted to learn how to be a cowboy, or be a cowboy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so in the beginning there's only a few adventure tourists who want to become a cowboy and they actually


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Work on the ranch and what not, but they are fairly well off


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, um, wealthy-wise, they don't actually have to work there. So among the people of the ranch, they're like, what's going on here?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, but you're integrated to some degree, but let's just say this process of adventure, adventurism keeps growing and suddenly the ranch realizes that it's a working ranch, but also we can do, start cowboy school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, there's a part of the ranch which is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And which involves real cowboy shit. That you go and direct the cattle and go on a cattle drive and whatever else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That kind of is a rough approximation for me of the disjunction between a Thai kai moe and a Thai gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now things have really accelerated even from the time that we've been here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The cattle ranches have gotten way into the business of cowboy school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a foreign enough culture, and they do kind of romanticize other cultures just like Americans do. But it would be like, now there's a Japanese uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cattle school, like cowboy school, right next to a more like traditional cattle ranch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's still cattle stuff being done. There are fight, fighters being produced fighting on shows. But now you even have like, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In, in Thailand, you now have entertainment muay thai, which is a form of promotion, which uhm, basically is designed so westerners can win. They basically make thais so they cannot back up, they don't use traditional scoring, they often make the westerner much physically larger.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well I'm saying there's now a commercial, uh, promotional movement in Thailand to build on the cowboy school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The point, and this point really isn't that one is better than the other, but to just draw firm distinctions


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fairly firm distinctions between the two realities.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when you go to a Muay Thai gym, which is say is a business, and a lot of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of still, there are still gems that are kind of hybrid. They, they still produced tie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting thing is that all the trainers at a Muay Thai gym grew up in Khai Moi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they bring the culture and practices of kai moi into the gym. It's not completely fake. Although more and more westerners are like becoming pad men. Which is kind of a fucking amazing but-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the practices, well, the practices in a cowboy school are, become different than they are in the, in the kai moi, in the, in the ranch, because a lot of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People come to cowboy school, they wanna learn cowboy stuff. Which means you have to articulate how to be a cowboy. And you develop mechanisms of teaching and verbalizing. A big thing about verbalizing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two weeks, three months. They're not coming for three years, necessarily. So the practices, the methods by which


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the first thing is to just, to not let these two things be confused with each other. And the other one is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Kai Moi is part of the social fabric that gave birth to and maintains the Muay Thai of Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The cowboy schools might be a very important dimension of also maintaining the Muay Thai of Thailand because it has an influx of income and foreign interest


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And therefore pride in Muay Thai for the Thais. But it's also shaping the Muay Thai of Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were saying, oh, we're continuing, we had a little bit of a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, if there were only two kai moe seven years ago, they're all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this was an important, like uhm, this is an actual legal designation within Thai, like tax code and whatever. Being officially a Kaimoi or a gym business was a distinction.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it is interesting that there is an actual, official distinction between the two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That there, almost, there really are no more kai moe and papaya.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Many of these, uh, gyms are foreign or partially foreign owned, so not bound by the same, like, uh, social hierarchies and glue that control Tai Kaimoi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But in this meeting, which is actually a kind of extraordinary meeting, I don't know if they've had other meetings of this kind, but you really don't have a regional Muay Thai


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That what seems to be happening with the Poop Cat gyms is they're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tourism has taken a huge hit, and Muay Thai has taken a huge hit for over a year now because of COVID. And because we have this leg up because of the sandbox, when people start coming up, we want to present a unified concept.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where we're not quite competing so badly against each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where we make, uh, Phuket a destination, a Muay Thai destination.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In this meeting, there was a distinction between Kimo and Jim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, there's a stronger distinction in the timeline.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or is it not worth going into? Okay. Okay. I feel like we're a little bit stalled here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a pre- was it in the previous multi-bones we talked about this, uhm, ownership of-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Thailand, we did a multi-bones on this actually, as a subject. It's a really good one, you should go listen to it. But this growing value of Western fighters is actually...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Muay Thai gym scenario.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but the, the promotions, that's chicken and the egg. The promotions developed to support the gyms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And actually got funneled into, like, King's Birthday shows, fighting top fighters. But this was very rare. Usually if you had a Ferong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the kai moi, they are the la- the least important person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, your trainers would be on these shows sometimes. This is amazing. Uh, so, so, okay, one of the interesting things, this is why before we get to the ownership of the gym and whatever, one of the interesting things in that article you wrote up, which was they were calling for fights to be fought in a very particular way. And they were like, and this is so striking,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If people don't think this Kai Moi to Gym transformation is not affecting Muay Thai, this collaboration of Phuket Gyms were like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That people who do not know Muay Thai can watch it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So basically, we have to take Muay Thai, the actual Muay Thai of Thailand, and translate it for a tourist who doesn't understand Muay Thai at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, they must be thinking not only people who are coming for Muay Thai tourism, but they're also coming for the beach and they want to go see a Muay Thai fight. So, you basically, as a Weshner in these gyms, there is a call, and who knows, but there is a call to develop a Muay, a style of fighting, which not only can


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do well on these entertainment Muay Thai shows, which are designed for Westerners to win with no backwards fighting, minimal clinch and what not. So they've radically changed the rules of Muay Thai, but they're also saying in general, we should start producing a Moi


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is appealing to people who don't even understand Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Chess needs to be made more watchable for people who don't understand chess.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No longer chess. It's no longer chess. You basically have to change the rules. And basically you have to change chess into checkers. Like, I understand they're hopping over each other and taking pieces.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but the problem is that when tourists or people on Facebook scrolling,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They don't really have a mechanism by which to understand the rules. And why it's exciting to someone who understands the rules.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the state of things, and oh my god, it would be nice if one championship announcers actually


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They seem like nice people and experienced in other things. It would be nice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, I understand they're kind of hype men. They're-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Given that there's no explanatory bridge, Muay Thai is facing a stylistic transformation of which this Phuket


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They want to get the tourist back. Thailand is incredibly dependent upon the tourist dollar


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Puket especially. And so there, so the Entertainment Muay Thai, the Farang has a chance to win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] have become interlinked with the financial viability of Muay Thai gyms all across the country.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So right now there's developing a kind of split personality of what Muay Thai is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The kai moi traditional muay thai, which is much more complex. It's much more like chess. And then you have promotional entertainment muay thai, which is much more like checkers and meant for eyes of people who do not know anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we weren't talking about a specific westerner. We, it came off that westerner's that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Move, this is about sponsored fighters especially, that you spend some time at a year, one year, two year at a gym, they don't charge you, they sometimes feed you and house you, they give you their gym name, you go on these promotions, they take


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we were kind of, it kind of came off because we were talking about the kai moi heritage of gym practices.


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[Assistant] And the western fighter doesn't always understand fully how they're being seen. Right. And the obligations, the moral or social obligations that are upon them. But we didn't want to come off, we might have come off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we didn't hear this from anybody, we were just reflecting on it as being kind of like an advocate for these gyms that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, after, after one, two years, three years,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very often you will hit a ceiling of training in that gym because you become slotted in a certain way. All the trainers believe you're certain, you're capable of only certain things. Trainers often get bored or tired of dealing with a particular


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That that will happen because of the life cycles of gyms and the way that trainers experience


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we wrote an article a long time ago, the cruise syndrome.


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[Assistant] Where a crew is like all into you and like training you up and bringing so this potential.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When, when you don't perform whatever they taught you, you're not fighting in the style that they supposedly have imprinted on you, or you start losing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then they start distancing themselves from you. They're like, it's not my fault, it's the student's fault.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, 100%. But the tie has no move.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It wasn't my training, it was them. They're not one, they're essentially some way. And I think if you stay long enough in these kind of like, uh, social networks,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're gonna come up upon the ceiling of what you can be.


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[Assistant] Just because there's a kind of conservativeness in Thai Khaimoi culture.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and also not about necessarily maximizing a fighter's capabilities. Even TIE fighters. TIE fighters are like pushed into, uh, styles or things that are often not even great. From Johnson famously was like, I didn't want to be wooden man. I had so much-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had so much Muay Thai in me I wanted to do, and he was like, they told me to be wooden man, and so I was wooden man.


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[Assistant] That you get kind of slotted for what you're capable of.


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[Assistant] Ties very often, to be very broad about it, don't have the same, uh, genitive concept of possibilities.


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[Assistant] Which actually is to the detriment of Muay Thai in the last few decades. Thailand's Muay Thai, because of gambling a lot of fighter styles became very narrowed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you're kind of stepping into some of these long, long term currents. So, that's that. Are you ready to go to the next, last topic?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uuuh. Okay, Albert, I'll lead. That's right. Makes you happy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In some ways, this is just like a little side story in Muay Thai. But for me, personally, it was not just that. Fairtechs announced that it's going to be bringing MMA to Lampini Stadium. And, oh man, for some reason, this like, I'm not saying this is some terrible thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But for some reason, this was on the back of, uh,


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[Assistant] Go Sport Promotions bringing in women into Limpini.


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[Assistant] Towards entertainment scoring, or they're just gonna do traditional scoring in three rounds.


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[Assistant] There are fights now happening in Limpini Stadium that would never have been in Limpini Stadium before, including women being there. It's a part of an entire like internationalist vision of the new, new Limpini.


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[Assistant] That is like, anti-gambling, basically, we're not gonna even, there's a possibility there won't even be ties in the stadium.


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[Assistant] In the audience, like the audience might be just bust in Chinese tourists.


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[Assistant] Well, they're not even pricing out. They literally have said at times no ties.


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[Assistant] Reformation of, uh, Lumpini Stadium that maybe there'll be no Thai audience really. I don't know how that would even be enacted. But the idea is as long as you have a stadium full of Thai people with cell phones,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They are like on a full on commitment to kind of reformulating Lumpini. So the FairTechs announcement, which is to bring...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Muay Thai promotion but also MMA of all genders.


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[Assistant] Ostensibly what Fairtex is doing, proposing, is to bring One Championship into Lampini Stadium. One Championship has had tremendous success.


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[Assistant] Maybe not financial success, some question about their books, but uh, cultural success.


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[Assistant] Yeah, like they've spread the brand of Muay Thai.


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[Assistant] By changing the rules of Muay Thai, but also bringing in very famous names, top