[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One thing that I did not do in the past, I didn't really have guests and it was for a couple reasons. One is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, it's just, I'm, I'm all, I'm gone, I'm moving all the time, I'm doing, you know, I'm just like, to be able to connect with people is really hard for me, so if I just do the podcast myself, I can do it on any schedule, in any place. Uhm, but I probably will have certain guests


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, thanks for having me, I'm excited. Uh, yeah, I appreciate you guys having me on here and getting to chat. It's always fun chatting with guys that have similar mindsets and the way, it's funny because you go through and you do all this stuff, right? And I mean, I'm sure you know this, Cory, is like, when I started hunting, or maybe when you start, is like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The things that we do, people weren't talking about. And I was like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that what happened was back in the day, somebody that didn't hunt elk went out, hunted elk, and wrote a book about it, and then every other book was based on that book. That has nothing to do with elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the more I learn, the more I'm like, that was 100% true. You know, because I was like, I wish that these kind of, and then it's, it's refreshing to run into people that also like have found out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What you found out by doing things kind of similar to you and you go, okay, it's validation that that is the right way. It's a good way to do things. It works. Uhm, you know, and maybe the ways that other people have learned over the years really weren't necessarily


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, maybe guys that had spent a lot of time doing it. So it's nice to know that people that do it a lot kind of find the same, you kind of like, you know, you find the simplest shape. It's like this, this seems to work because it works. And, um, that, that's, I really enjoy that aspect of like talking with people and figuring out, oh, these are things that we do very similar and kind of the same. It's really cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can, uh, listen to the podcast, just search live wild with Remy Warren. Pretty much everywhere podcasts are available. And then you can always find me on Instagram or Facebook.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The goal is, what little you and I know about elk hunting, we share with people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Talk Talk Podcast is also brought to you by Go Hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And with that Cory, we are ready to get into it. Let's jump into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All elk. All the time. Only elk. Only elk. Well, it's us having conversations, so we usually go down some rabbit holes, but if you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is also brought to you by Mountain Ops, making outdoor energy and performance nutrition to make you a stronger and healthier elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have a full line of hunting related supplements, including meal replacement shakes, multivitamins, pre-workout fuel and post-workout recovery. And my favorite, their new performance protein bars that by the way are packed with 270 calories and 20 grams of protein, but contain less than six grams of sugar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Visit MountainOps.com to learn more and to order and be sure to use the promo code ELKTOCK to save on your next order.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we have a promo code for Gerber as well, just use the code ELKTALK to save 20% on your orders at gerbergear.com.


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[Assistant] And we are also brought to you by Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls. And Rocky Mountain Hunting Calls is the original designer and inventor of the pallet plate diaphragm that's completely changed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lastly, the University of Elk Hunting online course is a proud partner of the Elk Talk podcast. And within the University of Elk Hunting online course, you're going to find nearly 60 chapters organized in 17 modules of elk hunting instruction aimed at making you a more successful elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From planning and e-scouting to calling strategies and packing, every imaginable elk hunting topic is included in the online course. And regardless of your previous elk hunting experience or success, I'm confident the University of Elk Hunting online course will make you a more confident, more successful elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just visit elk101.com and use the promo code ELKDOC to save 20% when you sign up for a membership to the University of Elk Hunting online course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My four wheeler broke down a couple weeks ago, right before the big storm started hitting. So I've had to pay a guy to come up with a Skidster and a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's got me thinking, but I'm, uh, I'm not ready yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're just going to say we don't have that service where I live. In fact, the UPS guy can't even get to our house right now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And three weeks ago, I got a phone call from the neighbor saying, hey, I don't know if you're planning on going home anytime soon, but the UPS truck is sideways in your driveway and waiting for a tow truck. He was sideways in our driveway for three hours waiting for a tow truck to come and drag him out, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not sure we gots talking about all the snow and my four wheeler breaking down and then your snow blower and man, talk about rabbit holes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, so you've got to back up just a little bit here because we've got to paint a picture for the listeners. Okay. So GoHunt Maps, it's available in 3D. So it's a very detailed 3D. Well they just, they just added a new base layer map.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Their base map has very detailed elevation bands, uh, very detailed listings of terrain, of creeks, all of that. So that in and of itself,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is a huge step up, like just being able to zoom in and, and the, the quality of that, the labeling of the features, everything's great. So then this new terrain analysis tool allows you to select all these different options, like you'd mentioned in terrain, and then it highlights it in green.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, you know, if you're, if you're only interested in north facing slopes, you just click on the little north on the compass and it'll show you every north facing slope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. Less than 20. You've got 5 to 15 and 15 to 25, so you click on those two and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know you see a little green strip across the whole 3d landscape of where elker going to bedding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then on the aspect, I just clicked Southwest and South.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it gave me a picture of this entire area that I shed hunt. And in that picture, there are only four drainages that would match all of that criteria.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I have all of my pins of where I've found sheds the last two years. Every single shed I've found was in a green patch on this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So now, now going forward, I can just look at this and I can mark these green patches on my mobile app.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I can go out there shed hunting and say, I don't even need to hit these four ridges because they don't meet this criteria.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Will there be a shed there possibly? Yeah, there might, I might miss a couple sheds here and there, but what I'm going to do is focus in on the areas where the bulk, the majority of the bulls are going to be wintering and be able to hit the honey holes. So this, this is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is powerful for shed hunting. For archery hunting, you know, it's, it's so hit and miss the different areas we hunt. You can't really say they're going to be at this elevation. But what it does is you're able to put marks of where you see elk and then start narrowing down until you get to the, you know, the edges of those bands and then look and say, well, most of the elk I've seen have been between,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And here are the bedding areas that I marked and wallows and different things. You can start drawing a pretty good picture of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three months out I guess, so it's, it's coming up, but I'm starting to do some scouting and looking for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but it's also application season. You know, Wyoming opens up next in just a couple days and it just snowballs after that. And so, you know, I opened up the link and went out to go hunt and now I'm in trouble because I've got,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've got to figure out where to, where to hunt this fall. I've got to figure out shed hunting and between the map and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything else out there draw odds and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And all of this information has been available. You and I have been doing everything that's talked about here for years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's still so much public land out there that it's, you know, it's not going to make anybody any more successful. These tools aren't going to increase success. They're going to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're going to help the people who are going to be successful anyways, maybe shorten that curve. They're going to help new hunters who come in, find new areas to go. And yeah, there's going to be probably a new hunter that steps on somebody's toes in an area they've been hunting for 15 or 20 years. And that's been happening since the beginning of hunting. That's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, when I was a kid, I can remember going hunting and a guy coming up to me and saying, how'd you find out about this area? I'm like, well, I live here. He's like, yeah, but how'd you know there were elk in here? I'm like, well, I, I bugle, you know, I got up on top of the ridge and bugled one answer. So I dropped down in here and he's like, well, I've been hunting here for 30 years and you know, you need to respect that. And I'm thinking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think I am respecting that it's not private land and so I mean, people have found other people's hunting areas for a long time and, you know, I would be concerned if all of this information, you know, you and I are putting points on the map and then that information is being shared out. Yeah, that's, that's different, but a research tool with this much power


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I get excited about, and it's not because it...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elk are spending the majority of their time on North faces because at least during daylight hours, yeah, it's warmer. Uh, there's more cover there and that North face is just where they go. That's where their bedding areas are. So you, you put on a.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A tool that gives you access to see directly this is an actual north face. And then you start looking for a bench three quarters of the way up the mountain on a north face.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, it eliminates, like you said, 90% of the area, 90% of that unit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Isn't bedding area, isn't where you're gonna find elk during the day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so now you start focusing in on those 10% of the areas that they are and of course they're moving so they're, you know, they're coming from feed or water and they might travel 4 miles, they might travel 100 yards. But knowing where they're going to and where they're coming from,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just, it's incredibly powerful. And, you know, with that being said, and I've always said, success rates are where they are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this, the power of this kind of a resource, it takes away a lot of the guessing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it doesn't take away a bit of the work in the field. It doesn't take away any of the knowledge of, of, you know, being out there and learning about elk and learning about their habits and knowing, you know, that they bed in these areas and then hiking into these areas and finding them and then employing strategies to hunt them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is one step that, for me, I don't think it makes hunting easier. What I think it makes is more opportunity. It gives me more places to go and look. It gives me more backup areas. I'm able to say, hey, here's my primary three areas, but here's three or four other areas I've never been to that are going to take more effort to get into.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if there's too much hunting pressure in this area or the elk aren't there or there's wolves or whatever the issue is, I have more backup areas to go in and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What do you guys need? What do you want? What's a tool that you don't have that you wish you had?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a digital platform. We can, we can do anything. And we've given them some pretty tall orders and we're talking in a matter of weeks sometimes. They're like, hey, check this out and let us know if this is what you're thinking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's a, they're making so much progress right now on that. But I think, you know, what you mentioned, they're everything in one place. You can go to GoHunt, and it used to be, you know, with an Insider membership, you got access to draw odds, uh, some of the, the Insider articles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, some of those, you know, tools that help you during application season with the addition of maps. You know, it definitely helped out, but now with all of these features being put in there, there really is no need to, you know, I haven't been to Google Earth for a long time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, no, ideally I would like to be within three feet of a highway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As I say, however, I don't think I've ever shot an elk that I've been able to drop the tailgate and, and load hole. We've got some that have been, you know, we've got lucky and only had a 300 yard pack or something, but dropping the tailgate hasn't happened yet. With that being said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's very rare to find elk next to a main road, like right next to it hanging out. Yeah, they might cross it and you might jump out and intersect them there. But if I'm looking for a hunting area that I want to get into where I feel the elk aren't going to be as disturbed or I feel there's going to be less hunting pressure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I'm usually looking a mile off of a road or a trail to get into and, and you say a mile and a mile in most terrain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Isn't that bad? I mean, don't get me wrong, if you're at 9,000 feet and you've got a 22 degree slope, you go a mile in that and you're ready for a helicopter and an oxygen tank.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But for the most part in elk country, you can get on a ridge and cover a mile and usually do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, some area that most people won't access or area that they'll feel like there's less pressure. It's a pretty small investment for, for the payoff you're going to start seeing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, a lot of people you start seeing get a mile off the road and it eliminates 90% of the people. Well, that means 90% of the people aren't willing to hike a mile off the road and if they're not willing to do that, well that goes back to our 10% success.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, it really does. No, and when you mentioned that, it's like lightbulb came on. It's like, when I think Sanctuary, I think, uh, rock slides and I think,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Blowdowns and thick brush and the nastiest terrain and long distance, you know, but realistically a sanctuary is where an elk feels safe and isn't pressured.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That might be in a, in a meadow right next to a highway in a unit that only has ten tags. You know, that's, that's his sanctuary. He's safe there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not necessarily, I think it's, uh, usually a function of, uhm, expended effort versus potential reward. Uh, and in looking at, you know, packing out the animal is definitely part of it, but, you know, there's some days I'll hike.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three, four miles back into an area and then hike out and camp at the truck and then go right back into that same area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a factor of hunting pressure, that's a factor of predators, uh, that's a factor of our own pressure on an area. You know, you go in and hunt the same area for eight days and you can go in and rifle hunt, you know, post-drutter late season and get away with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you know, the way we hunt, it's aggressive. Uhm, we're pushing in, we're looking for bulls that are super responsive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's only a couple of those bowls in an area usually on a, on a given day. And so we're going to go to another area and look for one of those bowls. So I've gotten away from, from packing in a back country camp set up and staying in one place during archery season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we still do it from time to time and it's usually just an overnight thing, maybe two nights at the most where we will go in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three or four miles, we'll set up a camp. We'll hunt from there and not pack camp on our back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, packing camp on your back is just, it's rough. If you truly bivvy hunt and you wake up in the morning, you roll up your wet tent, you stuff it in your backpack, you load everything on your back,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you go until you're done hunting that night and wherever you are you pull out your tent and you set it up and the next morning you make breakfast and you roll up your sleeping bag and everything and throw it back in your backpack and hike all day looking for elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, you end up so far sometimes from a truck that getting an elk out is brutal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Getting back in experiences in shed season, in summer backpacking trips, and when it comes to elk hunting, uhm, I'm looking for efficiency. And I think you're more efficient when you're mobile than when you're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and that, that cuts into you got three guys hunting in seven or eight days. You spend three days just packing one elk and camp out and, you know, you aren't efficient as a group.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, uh, I listen carefully when, when you talk about elk hunting, especially post drought and late season, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where the elk are going to be, where the bulls are going to be when they drop their antlers. And realistically that's at the lower threshold of the transition range. And so when I get up into those areas that are 5600 feet in elevation, kind of the upper end of where I find sheds,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm realistically in the area where the elk are going to be rutting in the fall. And, you know, I might not find them there in June and July.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But typically they're going to be coming back into those areas for the rut.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so I'm looking, you know, when I'm scouting for antlers and I'm out picking up sheds, I'm looking for rubs. I'm looking for bowls. You know, if I find a great big bowl and I find the, the sheds off of that bowl, I'm thinking, okay, I've got to figure this area out for this fall and come back see if I can find him in September.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I tried to get out and put a boot on the ground and just at least learn to lay at the land and, you know, there's some things eScouting, I've looked at a, a 3D digital map, uh, of an area and when I get there, it's like that did not represent this whole site very well at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have rope and I still can't get up this hillside. So, you know, getting out there ahead of time before you hike in eight miles and set up a camp with llamas and go around the bend and realize that that ridge you wanted to climb up isn't even accessible. Uh, it's good to put some boots on the ground for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, yeaah, I think, you know, the familiarity with the area and the familiarity of the elk and the elk behavior within that area, uh, you just, you can't replace that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's probably the most important aspect of success. And if I, if I draw a tag in Arizona,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm not too, you know, I'm not, I don't have to feel like I have to put a whole lot of effort into that, but it's going to take me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's going to take some effort. And even if you know the area, even if you know the elk behavior, there are so many factors and variables that change the area and the elk behavior from year to year that, you know, I feel like I have to be out scouting. I've lived in Idaho for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 46 years, my entire life. I've hunted since I turned 12 years old and I was out in the field long before that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I still every year feel like I'm starting fresh when I go and hunt an area, you know, this area that we've hunted until last year, uh, this certain unit, I've hunted it since 1998, pretty much every year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you've got to do more work. And there's a lot of people I think that approach these hunts like they would a draw hunt in Arizona or something that I'm going to make a couple phone calls and make sure I know where a good place is to get a burger and a milkshake when I come out. And that's, that's their extent of scouting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, they might call and find where there's a mobile butcher or a place they can take their elk to get processed. Uh, things like that, but actually putting boots on the ground and seeing where the elk are this year and getting an idea from there of where they're going to be in the fall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not a lot of people do that and it's so important if you want to be consistently successful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you've gotta, you've gotta make it a year-round thing. And I'm not saying, you know, you, you quit your full-time job and invest every hour of every day into elk hunting, but there's gotta be a, it's gotta be on your mind year-round and you've gotta be working every day in some way to becoming a better elk hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that doesn't mean you spend eight hours a day while you're at work on Go Hunt looking at insider and maps and everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there is, there's a lot of work that goes into it and I think another factor


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is uhm, the work obviously I think is most important, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The areas that people choose to hunt, you know, I hear of people that go back to the same campsite year after year after year and they aren't successful or maybe they were successful the first year they went there and they've been there four years in a row now and haven't been successful. And I think it's so easy to just get stuck in that rut of not expanding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Consistent success year after year on these public land over the calendar type hunts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 90% of those people who are killing an elk 100% of the time


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And still know that I'm going to get my rear end kicked by an elk every season. I'm going to get humbled every season. Uh, yeah, those are, it's going to take that level of commitment to get there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, I was out there the other day and realized we probably need to update it, but they can go there and click on the contact link and it's going to pull up a form where they can enter in their email address and their topic and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Question, a comment, suggestion, anything like that. And then they hit send and it comes straight to both Randy and I.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's just crazy to, I hadn't even, I didn't realize those numbers, but we're talking 270 bull elk tags for non-residents in Utah versus 17,000 bull elk tags. And this is draw tags. This isn't over the counter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over the counter, you can hunt what, second and third rifle in Colorado and archery season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over the counter, so all of those archery hunters and all of those second and third season rifle elk hunters, that's in addition to the 17,000.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This year there's 23 applicants for those same four tags and. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Utah's not even on the radar. Utah's not even in elk state anymore. That's it, that's it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the 270 elk tags they give out a year, that's, wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well and I just, I mean, there are some, some, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Analytics that are a little harder to find or a little harder to extrapolate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, you know, you just, you mentioned some of them, but knowing how many years of applicants there are, I've always looked at and said, okay, it's going to take this many years. If I'm looking at this specific tag last year, there were 120 applicants. They gave out 20 tags. It's going to take six years to get through those applicants and somebody getting in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm thinking I've heard this before. I've heard this warning somewhere before and it wasn't in hunting. You know, it was somebody explaining what a pyramid scheme looks like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, just to, you know, take it a step further.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right now, it takes 28 points to draw that same tag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But my plan is the same. Once I burn those 15, I think I'm probably going to start looking at some more reasonable options, such as a LADAR tree. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, but other than that, yeaah, school starts back up next Monday and we start our conference schedule next Monday.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things are, things are going well. Well, I wish you all the luck. Well, we, we need luck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's kind of like hunting. You practice, you put in all this work and everything and it makes you better, but you still, you still need a little twist of luck every once in a while.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. I don't know why they would. I don't know. Looked fun. Cause it's fun. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And with that, Cory, we are ready to get into it. Let's jump into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. To become a member, go to rmef.org.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The podcast is also brought to you by Gerber, uh, go to gerbergear.com and learn about the knives, the vital, the big game vital, the gauge premium, all the things that we use when we're out in the woods and not just knives, but also some really cool multi tools that they have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Use promo code ALKTOCK and when you do, when you sign up for the insider, you're going to get $50 of store credit. Mad money in their gear shop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, well if people hear some smashing and banging in the back of your audio, now we've given a full disclaimer to ignore it. That's right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You guys have any snow? We don't have any snow to speak of. I got an inch and a half in my yard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See, I don't own a snowmobile. I'm not a good enough mechanic to own a snowmobile.


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[Assistant] I've yet to see anyone go more than 30 miles on a snowmobile that didn't require mechanical attention.


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[Assistant] I'm just saying that from experience, you know, and when you grow up in Minnesota, everyone had a snowmobile. And my expertise when it comes to two cycle engines and belts and tracks came from trying to wreck


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, that, that is true. I mean, if you're a logger, like our families were, you're expected to be more of a mechanic than you are. You know, you gotta fix your chainsaw, you gotta fix the skidder, you gotta fix the loader, the, the log truck.


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[Assistant] You know, and if you're like my dad, he had a 1969 GMC that


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[Assistant] Yeah, the Arizona draw odd, er, draw, uh, for elk and antelope is coming up on the 9th of February. You doing anything that day? I'm going to look and see. On the 9th of February? I shouldn't be. Is it some sort of holiday? No, it's a Tuesday.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, on one of the, one of the websites, somebody I saw had February 19th as the date. And I'm thinking, leave that out there. You know, let some people look at that and they'll show up on February 19th and it'll say the draw for Elk and Antelope is closed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Drinking coffee and eating a pumpkin cookie. If you come to Bozeman, go to the Daily Coffee Bar on North Rouse. Every morning they have fresh frosted pumpkin cookies. Oh man. You can't eat just one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He made the big mistake. Usually it's me who makes this mistake, but you never have the camera and the shooter and rifle season anyhow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anywhere other than one behind the other because you don't know who's gonna.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See what? Well, there's three bulls across the canyon and I'm laid down on a flat rock and the nicest one, you know, he's a high 200 inch six point, is standing there. And, uh, the camera guy decides to go on a rock over about, I don't know, 30 yards to my right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so his filming angle, he can't see the bull I'm on. He's like, oh, that's just a raghorn. You sure you want to shoot it? I'm like, this one over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow. They backed right up to him, threw him in the truck and they were in town drinking beer, telling big stories about an hour later.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyhow, I've enjoyed Arizona. And the reason I've had so many tags or been a part of so many tags is I apply for the easiest to draw tags there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You apply for the archery tags, don't you? I do. Yeaah, those are super hard to draw. Typically so, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tell them how the drop system works or do we just want to scare them off with all those things?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At least by a bonus point, because if you don't...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not only do you fail to accrue a bonus point for this year, but Arizona has a deal where if you apply for five consecutive years,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That sixth year, you get an extra point called the loyalty point. And that stays intact as one of your extra points until such time as you forget to apply either for a tag or for a bonus point. So don't, if you're going to do Cori Brown.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those are early. In southern latitude, that's a little bit early probably. Yep. Anyhow, and then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's really bad. I've hunted Arizona a lot for, you know, elk, quail, doves, javelina, deer, and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We go to this same spot every year and do our cootsteer camp. And so you get to learn where all the water sources are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you go check them. I would say three out of four water sources are completely dry and the ones that have any water have very little water.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because their monsoon season, they get inches and inches of rain in late July, August, September.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really fill up those water sources and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like you said, it takes 10 plus points for most units, at least. Unless you beat the odds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're concerned about antlers, you're probably going to have antler growth that's subpar. Some of the people will say that's a 10% swing in antler growth. So a 330 inch bull, which is a really nice 5 or 6 year old 6 point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there is a decent moon phase for the Light Rifle Haunt. Uhm, it's, uh, like coming off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't miss it. Oh, you know what else is going to happen this year? Did you get the email from Arizona Game and Fish about the change to your portal account?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did. Yeaah, I haven't looked into that yet. If I was you, I'd go look into it. Mine came on December 8th. I think most of them were sent out December 8th, 9th, or 10th. You have to log in to your account in that email. They gave you a temporary username and a temporary password.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And go in using those temporary things. If you go in and use all your old information, it's not going to let you in. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here's what I can see happening. You have a lot of these people who are procrastinators. So on February 8th or 9th, they're going to try to log in and they're not going to be able to get in. And the phone lines at Arizona Game and Fish are going to be backed up forever because, well, first of all,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If COVID's still in place, you know, a lot of people are working remotely. So going there and thinking you're going to have some way to sort this out or calling and having a way to sort it out is less likely. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're one of those people who get frustrated on the last day or two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't call us. Until then, yeaah. Yeaah. So I went in and did it and it's not as easy as you think. There's a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A box you can check that says if you want, uh, what is it, multiple authentication like MFA or something, check this box. And I did it. And it, it, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I'm looking here, I took a screenshot of how long this was on, what's the date of this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was in a COVID fog, so I'll throw some of that as blame, but the screenshot says I was on the phone for an hour and two minutes and 21 seconds trying to get this solved. And I think it took 21 seconds for the lady to solve it, it's just how busy they were. Wow. That's how long I was in the queue, over an hour. So don't be that person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There could be problems here. Yeaah. But if you do apply,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we get into this, you'll see that Arizona, they say it's a bonus point system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, first of all, you gotta buy your non-resident, non-refundable hunting license. $160?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And well, it meant writing a track, and it also meant


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And some people call it first pass, second pass. Some people call it the bonus pass or the one-two pass. I just call it first part, second part.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Makes it easier in my head. So this is where it becomes a hybrid system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Arizona takes 20% of the tags in every hunt coat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it puts them over in the first part of the draw and says we're going to do this as if these bonus points are really preference points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The applicant with the most points is going to get the tag until the 20% of these tags for this hunt code are allocated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So everybody goes in that draw. The majority of us don't draw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So then we all go over to the second part of the drought where it's the remaining 80% of the tags aren't a true bonus point system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the strategy I use. My first choice in Arizona, that was some crazy early rifle season tag. It's like, hey, you never know, maybe my number comes up, and if it does...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then my safety net is, alright, late rifle. They're way easier to draw. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But here's a little thing that I did not know this until about four years ago. That if you apply for a third, fourth, or fifth choice, it burns your points if you get drawn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so they put a third, fourth or fifth choice as a cow tag. And he drew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was under the same impression I was at the time, that third, fourth, and fifth choice doesn't burn your points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ah, since then, I've told my crew, if any of you apply for a third, fourth, or fifth choice, you're fired.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then there's that cap, there's a 10% up to 10%, kind of like we have in Montana and you have in Idaho, we're non-residents. We're not guaranteed 10%, but the cap says we'll never get more than 10%.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's some people who've been in this Arizona system for a long time. Yeah. So if you go and look at the point layers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are, the number of people with 15 or more points is almost 3000 non-residents. Yep. And those people are applying for the hard to draw tax.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've been watching that for years. This person must just go and buy a point, or he's got an application service, he or her does, that does this for them. Every year they just buy a point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like, you got 31 points. You could hunt any elk hunt in Arizona in any year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That could be people who just got in, or people who went and took the Hunter Ed class. So, let's talk about that. Have you went and taken it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in my example, I drew Arizona elk in 2017.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, in my case, they go back to 2, because I have my permanent hunter endpoint.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I have my loyalty point for having been in the system five consecutive years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this year, instead of having three points, I've got five.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the late hunts that I apply for, I've got, some of the units I've got on my calendar, I've got like a 20 or 30% chance of drawing, which some would say, oh, that means you've got a 70 or 80% chance that you don't draw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that Hunter-Ed point, a lot of those people where it says have one point, uhm, I suspect quite a few of those might be the Hunter-Ed people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have I told you my story about the year I went and took the Hunter Ed class in 2007?


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[Assistant] And I'm looking, I'm seeing, hm, every year all these non-resident tags go to the maximum point holders for the Arizona Strip. Milder tag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well I'm going to Kingman, I'm taking that class. So I go down there in January, take the class. Me and Uncle Larry and some of my college buddies get together, we go shoot a big mess of quail. Now I'm in the maximum point pool for deer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when those results came out in July, I had an Arizona strip meal there tag in my hand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ehm, if you want to go take that class, when it comes available again right now, I was talking to other people just like you were, and that's deferred because of COVID, uh, it's something


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You should think about doing if Arizona is part of your annual planning. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I love Arizona. I hope I draw this year. I don't care if it's a drought or what. I just like being there. You never know when you're going to see that, you know, what we call Big Hank step out of the woods, even though this year it's going to be tough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's a little bit for everybody, they have some muzzleloader seasons, they have rifle seasons, they have archery seasons, they have some cow elk seasons.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, if you want to go, oh, and the cow elk, the antlerless tags are not subject to the 10% cap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nor are the limited opportunity haunts that are considered, quote unquote, any elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, the reason they're limited opportunity is it's kind of on the fringe of what is their core elk range and they're trying to keep the numbers down. So they give away a lot of tags and let you thump on them pretty hard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's 10 bucks to apply for Elk in Arizona. I think I spilled that much coffee on the floor during COVID.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, it's fogging around, stumbling and bummer. I know I spilled more than that. I broke one of my wife's, uh, favorite plates. Uh, gee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So anyhow, that cost me more than 10 bucks. So if you don't have 10 bucks to apply to your kid, darn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, here's what I tell people. If you want a non-resident, non-refundable license, it gives you a lot of value.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you like hunting things other than elk, make sure you apply for Antelope. Yea, the odds are just about zero, but it's like buying a raffle ticket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then in June, when the deer and sheep deadline come out, you already have bought the license, so apply for those because again, it's like buying another raffle ticket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Less than a week ago, I was down in sunny Arizona hunting quail and javelina. So when Cory's up here and it's nine below zero, I have nothing but smiles when I'm down in Arizona getting more value out of my hunting license. What was the temperature down there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the core isle habitat, with the exception of maybe one or two units, is the majority of it is public land. You seldom see


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, what do you think of these muzzleloader season dates? This year the muzzleloader season?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Start September 24th and run through September 30th. Yeaah. With the early muggle loaders.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, my uncle Larry, who is, hunts with us often, uh, if we need some colorful commentary or some adult language, we call him in because he's a, he's the Charlie Daniels of colorful language, man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he's a resident. He lives in the Phoenix area and I'm hoping that one of these years he draws an early rifle outtake because, uh, now that he's been dealing with cancer for the last, I don't know, 12, 13 years, he's, his mobility is not what it is or was. And so I'd give anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To be on one of those early rifle onsets that we apply them for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whether he gets a shot or not, it is a blue streak of words for at least three minutes after the encounter is over. And, uh, it's just, it's so much fun to be with him, but, uh, his odds as a resident are obviously way better. So, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I think what people should take from this is what you said at the beginning, Cory, is even the lower demand units in Arizona,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Still have some quality elk hunting that is worth your time and money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, the year I drew an early rifle out tag in Arizona, 2005.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was a full moon but I refuse to blame it on the full moon. It was just my complete ineptitude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, now that we've covered Arizona, I'd like to get to a couple questions, uh, or comments we got. Uhm, oh, before we go there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In, in your University of Elk hunting course, do you talk about drought years and how that uh, do you have any information in there about?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Me, I'm fumbling and stumbling and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, it kinda flips some of the disadvantages to being an advantage if you're, if you have the fortitude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's uh, that's the kind of the downside is you almost got to bring your own rock to stand on. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they said, you know, I listened to your podcast about crowding and growth of resident hunters in these western states. I'm 26 years old. I've just started applying for points. Am I wasting my time and money? It's kind of a summary of the question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, you, you really have two choices. Throw your hands up in the air and know that you're never gonna go and travel and hunt some of these places you might dream of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or you accept the fact that these are the systems in place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you do as much research, as much info gathering and networking as you can, and you play the game. I don't know how else to do it. Yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, you and I are lucky that we started in these systems a long time ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This person said they've been in it for three years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It just seems like a downhill battle. I hunt 16 days a year and would like to continue that in state and out of state.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you believe I'll have any opportunity in my 40s and 50s or will the old fart I would be at age 50 have to buy a private license?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's where I think we touched on it some earlier in prior podcasts is you have to allocate your budget.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Accordingly, you gotta think about where am I getting the most value? And I think the two states right out of the gate, Wyoming and Arizona, if you're an Elkhunter,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're applying as a non-resident. Those are the two states where you get the greatest value. That's just my personal opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so if you only have x budget to allocate, I'd start with those two states and then I'd add other states as my budget allowed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Almost 18,000 and those 18,000, those are just the point buyers. Uhm, how many were actual applicants last year I have this, so uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyhow, I can't find it right now, but even if we just use the point by our number, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 18,000 people are in the Utah Elk system and they give away, I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are a ton of people in Wyoming that have max points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are a ton of non-residents in Arizona that have 15 and above.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are even more, the percentage in Utah that has double digit points is, I think it's, getting close to half of the applicants in Utah have double digit points. Wow. For Elk. So, the reason I say this is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are a ton of people who've been doing this for at least 10 years to end up with double digit points. 10 years from now,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you brought up Cory in, uh, Arizona, how they changed it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I first started applying in Arizona in 1997, they didn't even have this first pass, second pass. It was all just bonus points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then they went to the first pass, second pass, and like you said, the 10% quota was being met in, in that first pass of the, you know, the high point holder tags.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I don't want to be in a race to zero where there's only one non-resident tag and there's 40,000 people applying for it. I want to help there be more elk, more wildlife everywhere on the landscape and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That to me that kind of getting to this person's point or question don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't let it get you down. I mean, yeaah, you gotta have a realistic approach to it. And we talk about often the short term, mid term, long term plan. You gotta have a budget. And sometimes that budget grows.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The first time I started doing this, the only state I could afford was Colorado.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then along came the next year, I think I added Nevada because I'd went to college there and I wanted to go back. And then the next year I added Arizona and I kept adding states, uh, each year. So it's, it's not like most people can, especially this person says they're 26. Uh, when I was 26.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh man, I couldn't afford to apply in my home state, out of state. So, uh, but if you have budget, do it, be disciplined about it, but make sure you're getting value out of the money you're investing. If all you're going to do, just go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unless that's your plan. If you just say, look, I view all these as lottery tickets and I'm just going to go, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you do enough applications once every 10 years, you might draw, but don't be frustrated the other nine years because that's, that's an expected outcome of the plan in place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And for this person, they're 26. I did not do my first non-resident application until I was 30. 31. Yea, I would have been 31, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're already, they said they've been doing it for three years, so they started at 23. Heck, they're eight years ahead of where I was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just, I dunno. And when I was 26, I'll be honest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you got the TV turned up way loud and you're falling asleep as quick as you have your, your breakfast of applesauce and melba toast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, uh, so, point of this is, it's easy, I know the person's saying, well it's easy for you to say, you know, you've been through the tunnel, you're, you're 30 years past where I'm at, da da da. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you don't get to having double digit points in a lot of states without a plan and without some time. They don't let you just show up and say, Hey, I'd like to buy 15 points today.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the person says, Hey, I have a question on scent. Do you use any type of scent killer? Say I put my camo on and I drive to the mountains 30 miles away and I meet up with a friend who's been eating McDonald's the whole way. We hunt a little and we don't see anything. So we go eat lunch at a restaurant and then smell like French fries. Then we go hunt another mountain in the evening. What do you do about those scent conditions?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I was referring to is state trust lands in Colorado.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are not open to public hunting unless Colorado Parks and Wildlife has come and leased those state trust lands. So state trust lands are these lands owned by the state land board. They're on your map, they'll show up as the light powder blue squares.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can hunt them, but you can't camp on them. In Colorado, you can't camp on them, you can't hunt them, you can't fish.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so that's what I was referring to. It does not apply to BLM lands, Bureau of Land Management lands. It doesn't apply to United States Forest Service lands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service land that doesn't apply to any of the federal lands. It does not apply to any land owned by Colorado Parks and Wildlife.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But in the West, we have these great big land boards that were endowed with a ton of land when these states became, were granted their statehood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And those are managed by state land boards. In Colorado, the rule is that you cannot hunt those state land board, state trust lands without permission of the lessee. So that's what I was, that was the point I was making. Uh, sorry if I created some confusion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thanks to some, uh, in the early 1990s when I first moved to Montana, some real, just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Salt of the Earth mentors of mine, they didn't even know they were my mentors at the time. I didn't know they'd become my mentors. They went to our legislature and they got the Montana State Trust Lands Rules changed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Instead of it being like Colorado, like Montana was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They got it changed where now we pay 10 bucks for a recreation pass, and it's just like Idaho.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But man, you talk about a knockdown drag out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ah, there were a lot of unhappy people who were leasing those state lands when all of a sudden they said, you know what?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll pay $10 to the state school system. That's where the money from all these lands goes to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the right to access these state trust lands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so now a lot of Montana hunters, I think, take it for granted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if you would have been there and you would have seen Tony Schoonen senior and Jack Atchison senior and Jim Pazowitz and the list goes on and on of these. I mean, they showed up at the Capitol and they weren't going away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right now we're focusing on this time of year, uh, we call it tag application season and that's the first step to getting a tag and we want everybody to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Understand how to clear some of these hurdles on a state by state basis. But once people get their tags, then it's scouting, learning, researching.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, your University of Alconning course, Corey, uh, to me is kind of the place if you want information about Alconning. All kinds of conditions. And I know you've asked me to help a little bit this year. I'm going to be


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Following your instruction, I hate can you do a video on this or a video on that? Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I think everybody who has an elk tag in their pocket can benefit from going out to the University of Alkiing, using promo code ElkTalk, and signing up for your course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I have had the benefit of and the privilege in this amazing country we live in is I've been able to haunt


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So many different states with so many different weapons at so many different season types, like you mentioned, and all these different habitat types.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you're smart, and I'm not saying I'm smart, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm like the Minnesota Vikings football team. They can invent ways to lose.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just when you think that if they can't lose, they invent a new way to lose a game. Well, it appears as though being a fan of theirs, I've inherited some of that where I can invent ways to mess up.


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[Assistant] A gift that was handed to me. Like earlier I was telling you about that shortcut I was going to take down in Arizona.


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[Assistant] Because that stuff that looks like grass that's only a foot and a half tall is really the foot and a half standing over and above the three foot boulders you're going to be hopping through. And that's not a shortcut.


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[Assistant] If someone wants to go to your course, they use promo code outtalk and they get a discount, but where do they find it?


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[Assistant] I'm, I'm the beneficiary of, of some of your teachings there, uh, to me they're


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[Assistant] It's just very helpful because I, I don't know, I consume as much out content as I possibly can.


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[Assistant] I mean, I've got so far to go to become even a slightly competent elk hunter. Uh, your course is huge from that standpoint.


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[Assistant] You want another example of why people should join the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation? Yes, I do. Alright. If you live in New Mexico or hunt New Mexico, you up in the, uh, it's the general area that I think of is like the upper Rio Grande, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's, I think the count is that 10,000 elk moved back and forth to these areas. And there was this really critical piece, just under 1200 acres.


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[Assistant] That was in multiple, uh, parcels, uh, that some landowners


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[Assistant] So, they come to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation puts this project together, goes to the BLM, Bureau of Land Management, and they find some money under the Land and Water Conservation Fund to buy this almost 1,200 acres. And now, it's permanently conserved public land.


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[Assistant] That some people say, well, 1200 acres, that's not that much to hunt on. And it's not.


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[Assistant] But when you're talking about 10,000 elk and antelope and who knows what else, mule deer, critters that move back and forth through that corridor every year, if that 1200 acres would have got subdivided,


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[Assistant] There would have been a lot of hunters back to our bigger pie, smaller pie. The pie would have just got smaller.


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[Assistant] But because of this work, the Elk Foundation, the BLM, these three landowner families, a ton of volunteers and folks in New Mexico and Colorado. We don't have to worry about that.


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[Assistant] So that's an example of what your money goes for when you become a member of the Rocky Mountain Up Foundation.


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[Assistant] I don't know. Last check, they have a score sheet, if you want to call it that, where them and their partners, ProjectsRMEF has either been a part of or been the lead partner on.


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[Assistant] They've conserved more than eight million acres of elk habitat through, and when you say conserved, it's either conservation easements or it's, you know, might be removing fences, noxious weeds, controlled burns, whatever it is to bring that habitat back for elk and other wildlife.


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[Assistant] But then they're, I think they're right at about a million acres of new public access or public access that they've either acquired and turned over to the state or federal agencies.


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[Assistant] Or just all the access that was kind of there, but it's been improved by the fact that, okay, you know, you used to have to circle 33 miles on your meal to get around to this public. We acquired a corridor to get there and now, you know, that corridor is public land. Now you can actually get to that 20,000 acres. So.


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[Assistant] They've created or improved almost another million acres of public access, which


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[Assistant] So go to rmef.org and if you aren't already a member, become a member. And if you are a member, think about upgrading. So.


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[Assistant] So maybe, maybe that's a t-shirt, build a bigger pie with an elk.


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[Assistant] Well Cory, thanks for taking the time. I know you have a daughter that is going to have a surgery on her ACL. Is that what you're telling me?


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[Assistant] Welcome to the Elk Talk Podcast with Randy Newberg and Corey Jacobson presented by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. To become a member, go to rmef.org.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's also brought to you by Gerber, uh, go to gerbergear.com and learn about the knives, the vital, the big game vital, the gauge of premium, all the things that we use when we're out in the woods and not just knives but also some really cool multi tools that they have.


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[Assistant] There is no way my wife and I could do a podcast together. She used to work at my CPA firm when I first started it. It was kind of like all hands on deck, you know, trying to build it.


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[Assistant] And because after dinner at like seven o'clock, it's kind of like family thing, go Dairy Queen in the summer. And Mike and I have decided we, we actually went into the Dairy Queen when the owner was there and said, we want to buy this if ever you put it up for sale. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Gave them our business cards.


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[Assistant] But, last week at Sheep Show, in Reno, a guy comes up to me and he's like, I own two Dairy Queens.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I, I witnessed that almost firsthand last month in Arizona. So I've spent me and my camera crew dragging around Southern Arizona, probably a total of, well, before you got there, we'd probably spent a total of 12 days scaring


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[Assistant] Next day, he comes back, he's got the rack of one of those. Was it one of the ones he had pictures of? Yea, it was.


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[Assistant] People who come to elk hunting via archery. To me, when I'm out archery hunting, maybe it's because I'm on such a steep learning curve. I don't really have a frustration level. Me, I expect everything to go wrong.


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[Assistant] So and I don't know how far the trail or the road ahead goes, but every one of those little


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[Assistant] I got a spot for you because where Corey killed that bull three years prior to that, or no, four years prior to that, I spot and stalked another one. But when you were saying, you know, how you're like, okay, the wind is this, the conditions.


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[Assistant] But when I saw that bull bed in there, even if it wasn't for that, I was confident we were going to get a shot at him. Because everything about the conditions, the setup was perfect. One o'clock in the afternoon, he was laying on the deck.


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[Assistant] Whether it's a spot in stock or okay I'm going to stock into an area and let him come to me. You think they get too impatient? Is that the biggest reason they mess it up?


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[Assistant] Well, if I wouldn't have got my shorts in a bind, I would have just waited him out, cause he would have stood up for the sun, or he would have heard a bull bugle, or another bull would have came walking across a further hillside, and I would have had a broadside shot at 28 yards. Right. No.


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[Assistant] So, when you've done all of your spot in the stock elk hunting, is there, if we were to say, alright Ryan, you get to pick this topography this time of year, this setting,


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[Assistant] That you're going to continue being the stealthy hunter. What, what, what, describe the perfect day and the perfect location. Okay.


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[Assistant] October 20th, wuh, first bot in stock, what time frame would you pick?


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[Assistant] If I don't draw a late rifle tag this year, I didn't do a late archery because of my calendar already being messed up, but if I don't draw a late rifle this year,


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[Assistant] You're going to go there and you're going to hunt the same bull herds, the herds the same age classes that everyone's hunting in the September. I mean, yeah, the fun in your face kind of archery hunts.


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[Assistant] All elk. All the time. Only elk. Only elk. Well, it's us having conversations, so we usually go down some


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[Assistant] And you look at it like, oh, that's a target rich environment. But if you're trying to single one out a solo target, there is much easier to go into than a big group. We record everything.


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[Assistant] And the podcast is also brought to you by OnX Maps and with OnX Maps you can know where you stand with the most accurate hunting GPS tech on the market with land ownership maps that work offline.


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[Assistant] We're also proud to partner with Sitka Gear and if you go to SitkaGear.com you'll see their full line of clothing and their tagline is turning clothing into gear and they are doing that through advanced technology that allows you to stay in the field longer, hunt harder and stay safer.


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[Assistant] I think it was, cause you even mentioned it at the end of the last episode, that when we got into the reduction in elk tags in the state of Arizona, I was going to be surprised.


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[Assistant] Our conversation just before we got started here was, was definitely a little bit of a shock.


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[Assistant] I don't know, I thought that our role in this podcast and everything was to educate people so that we could.


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[Assistant] Get them applying and get people hunting elk and.


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[Assistant] Man, first two episodes of this year, there have been changes that have kinda, kinda been a little bit of a downer.


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[Assistant] So three, four years ago, uh, that gave you a better chance of, of drawing one of those shooting for the star units, which before you really had no


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[Assistant] Especially as non-residents. So non-residents in Arizona are capped at 10%, and most of those hunts in that first round, all of those non-resident tags would be distributed. So if you didn't have max points,


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[Assistant] For that hunt, you really had no chance of drawing that hunt, especially for those harder to draw hunts.


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[Assistant] Uh, but they made a change three or four years ago that now you actually have a chance.


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[Assistant] No, Arizona is smart. They lock you in. They, they get you, get you young when it's easy and then they lock you into that and you can't walk away from eight points. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And we were talking, you know, at the beginning, we talked last year when we were going through these breakdowns of each state that, that is one of the, the downsides of a point system, is once you enter it, you're, you're stuck in it.


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[Assistant] As more and more changes are made and accommodations made throughout the years.


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[Assistant] And four years ago, before they made the change to the draw process, there was a specific unit I was going for and I could draw that hunt guaranteed with eight or nine points. And then they made the change to the, to the system and to the draw process.


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[Assistant] And there's so many more non residents with higher bonus points that we would hit that 10% cap in the bonus pass almost every time and leave no non resident tags for the next part, which is really the bulk of the tag drawing. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And that's really important, especially in that second pass, because your first and second choice on the application are looked at. So if your name gets drawn,


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[Assistant] They go right to your second choice and say, okay, you applied for unit 27 late rifle and there are tags left there. So we're going to give you that tag. So your second choice does count on your application.


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[Assistant] And then they do a third pass where your third, fourth and fifth choices are looked at if there are any, any tags leftover, which for the most part, I can't imagine that there would be very many units that have a third, fourth or fifth choice, uh, tag leftover that you could draw, but just know that they break that into a separate


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[Assistant] Pass and your first and second choice both go into that second pass, which we'll get looked at.


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[Assistant] Well, a couple other things worth mentioning. Your bonus point, you know, you pay $160 for your license and then $15 for your bonus point for your application. And in Arizona, you can say, if I don't draw, I'd like to receive a bonus point.


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[Assistant] And the really cool part about it is there are some late hunts in Arizona that you can draw with three to five bonus points. And so getting to, you know, a permanent bonus point and a loyalty point, you start at two the very first year, within a year or two of applying, you can draw another Arizona tag. So it's, you know, they aren't.


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[Assistant] So uhm, I think I took the, the reason I knew that, I think I've taken the online portion and completed it and I just need to find myself in Arizona at some time where I can take that one hour bonus point field test.


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[Assistant] You know, it added another 5 years on to what it would take me to draw. And so I'm looking at 12 or 13 points, and now with this change and the reduction in tags in the unit I've been applying for,


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[Assistant] It probably just added another three years on as a non-resident. So now I'm looking at, you know, 16 points for something I could draw with eight or nine points just three or four years ago.


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[Assistant] And what's funny is I used to, I mean, I'm a spreadsheet guy and so I've got spreadsheets of Arizona and all the units back in the, you know, late nineties, early two thousands, but then with the,


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[Assistant] It's kind of like GoHunt. GoHunt brings all the information into one place and makes it really convenient and accurate. And I think your spreadsheets just take it one step further. A lot more work to do, but.


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[Assistant] Being able to look and see the decreases in tag numbers and everything is. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And, uh, I think the two states we mentioned were Arizona and Wyoming, and now we've kinda...


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[Assistant] Kinda given reason to maybe go back to the drawing board and look at that.


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[Assistant] Plan was to draw, draw a good tag, a good archery tag. You know, I've waited 10 years now, 11 years. And then after that, you know, I'll get my permanent


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[Assistant] Spending some serious hours on go hunt researching, uh, where I need to be focusing in Arizona.


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[Assistant] Yup. And I drew two good tags in Arizona in a seven or eight year period. But now I've gotten back in line and I'm.


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[Assistant] Been 11 years, well 12 years, this year will be 12 years since I last hunted Arizona.


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[Assistant] Points? You still used points those years you drew those other tags too, so...


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[Assistant] So for GoHunt, if you sign up and use the promo code ELKTOCK, you're gonna get $50 to spend in GoHunt's online gear store.


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[Assistant] And for OnX, if you use the promo code elktalk, you're going to save 20% on any of their, uh, app purchases. So the hunt app, which is what we use, you can do the elite or the.


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[Assistant] The regular and purchase by state or purchase the elite and get access to up to five states.


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[Assistant] Point guard might be a good thing to not lose your points and not be forced to go hunt, but then at the same time, I think if you draw an Arizona tag, you change your other plans.


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[Assistant] Idaho's 40 pounds, but I require my children to be at 45, just, you know, personal minimum for them there. Uh, I believe Wyoming is 50. I think Wyoming is 50 pounds, which, you know, that's, you're, you're...


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[Assistant] Of bigger bowls in arizona and the limited number of points that it takes to draw versus a archery or rifle tag.


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[Assistant] Uh, so I'll definitely be researching those late archery tags, but I'm gonna, like I said, I'm gonna spend my, uh, my current points on an early archery tag and go from there.


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[Assistant] Well, the last thing maybe to mention are the, uh, season dates this year.


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[Assistant] So Arizona's a long shot for sure. And it's an investment. You've got to put in some time there, but it's a, when you do draw a tag, I have never even had a slight feeling of disappointment hunting elk in Arizona.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, it's almost like they're doing more damage by trying to hide the fact that they don't want people coming to Idaho than...


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[Assistant] Yeaah. So, uh, nice to meet you guys.


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[Assistant] Uh, facing us for conservation are, I mean, you know, cause I got kids and we're, you know, I want my kids to hunt, you know, I want my kids to grow up and have the things I had, you know, and my dad had. So, you know, do you think it's, uh,


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[Assistant] I heard that women population hunting is increasing, uh, I don't know about kids or, you know, like, so what can we do on our part to keep this land and keep it going and be able to hunt for generations?


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[Assistant] You know, I know this is kind of a political question too, you know, could be, you know, uh, so I don't know, that's, that's, yeah, basically my question there.


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[Assistant] So do you think it, sorry, second question here, uh, do you think re-introducing elk to these east coasts?


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[Assistant] Cause I see a lot of them Colorado, you know, you get a lot of those East coast plates, which isn't, is what it is, you know, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elk Talk Podcast is brought to you by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, ensuring the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat, and our hunting heritage. To become a member, go to rmef.org.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The podcast is also brought to you by Gerber, uh, go to gerbergear.com and learn about the knives, the vital, the big game vital, the gauge premium, all the things that we use when we're out in the woods, and not just knives, but also some really cool multi tools that they have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Use promo code ALKTOCK and when you do, when you sign up for the insider, you're going to get $50 of store credit, mad money, in their gear shop.


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[Assistant] I saw that on your Instagram page, and did you notice how many people said Corey?


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[Assistant] You are doing handyman work. You are obviously not listening to your buddy Randy.


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[Assistant] I'm still trying to figure out why you have three teenagers and you do this manual labor.


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[Assistant] Well, if you listen to my other podcasts and lectures, you would know that you don't own a wood stove either if you want one. I know.


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[Assistant] So Don Bowman was his name and he looked at me and he knew my, my now wife girlfriend at the time and he said, Randy.


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[Assistant] Just understand, there's nothing you bring to the table that she can't replace by noon tomorrow, so behave accordingly.


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[Assistant] So, behave accordingly. She could replace you by noon tomorrow. She could probably replace you by ten o'clock tomorrow.


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[Assistant] You Idaho guys are a different breed. Every time I interact with Idaho guys, the comment is, oh, there's nothing to see here. Move along. Oh, Californians came and scared all the elk away. Wolves ate all the elk.


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[Assistant] What kind of brought up this podcast idea is we got some emails the other day, you know, last week.


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[Assistant] That were questions about hunting in grizzly country. And you gotta explain to me, cause you manage this side of it.


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[Assistant] I've, I did a topic on this not too long ago in my live presentations, uh, YouTube live.


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[Assistant] And those are on Wednesday nights, right? Usually Wednesday nights, yeaah. But when I'm fishing, I don't do them, so.


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[Assistant] Exactly. So I, I will be doing it this Wednesday, but I type in Elk hunting in grizzly country and what pops up.


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[Assistant] The recommendations all the agencies have for how hunters should conduct themselves in grizzly country. And Ron's article is still pretty much verbatim of the information that people suggest today.


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[Assistant] I'm just trying to think where, it's a big topic. Maybe we could do three podcasts on it. Yeah.


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[Assistant] In Idaho, where you live, is your grizzly country mostly just the northern parts of the Panhandle and the eastern part, eastern part of southeast Idaho?


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[Assistant] For the most part, anything west of I-15,


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[Assistant] I think probably Northwest Wyoming's gotta have the highest density of grizzly bears there is.


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[Assistant] Considering we've already had five incidents this spring and summer just in Montana, uh, seems like we've got more than our share of them also.


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[Assistant] Well, I'm gonna say, I'm not, we'll save my in the field encounter with a grizzly bear for later, but my first dump, jump into the deep end of the pool related to grizzly bear management was in 1999. Wow, that's a long time ago.


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[Assistant] 21 years ago, governor Mark Roscoe in Montana got to appoint five people from Montana to join five from Idaho and five from Wyoming and it was called the governor's grizzly bear round table.


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[Assistant] And you were supposed to pick five people from different backgrounds to represent your state. Well, of the 15 people on that committee that met for the better part of three years for two days every quarter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, what our job was, we met with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service people to develop the, the delisting or the conservation strategy once the Yellowstone subpopulation got delisted.


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[Assistant] So, I was the, the token hunter among the 15, and I learned more about grizzly bears in those three years than I ever care, cared to know about grizzly bears.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and every scientist that was involved in that conservation strategy, every federal biologist, US Fish and Wildlife Service biologist, every one of them are in favor of state management.


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[Assistant] But unfortunately, the courts, all it takes is finding one sympathetic federal


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[Assistant] The landscape is saturated with grizzly bears. So to think that by keeping them listed


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[Assistant] The on the ground hunting part of it, uh, when you and I archery hunted in Montana, we were in a, one of these areas in high grizzly bear densities.


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[Assistant] Most mornings or most days we'd see grizzly tracks that weren't there the day before.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you're still, there's, there, if you're in grizzly country, you are never going to get to a zero risk situation.


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[Assistant] So, there's things that can get you from a high risk to a lower risk, but there's still always the risk. So even if you do all the right things, you still could have an encounter.


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[Assistant] At the time I'm in the woods and whether, you know, if someone is out shed hunting or someone's hunting in September or November, grizzly bears are in certain locations at certain elevations, feeding on certain food sources that you can almost, uh, lower a big


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some of the higher density areas of grizzly bears by not hunting super high.


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[Assistant] Like where you and I hunted on that hunt, that's where I've had my two grizzly bear encounters.


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[Assistant] I avoid the north-facing slopes that are still filled with huckleberries.


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[Assistant] We're standing up on this old road and a bull is bugling down below in this north-facing drainage.


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[Assistant] And Cory looks at me like, uh, let's go get them. And I'm like, no Cory, I had a grizzly bear encounter down in there. Uh, and it wasn't really an encounter. I sprayed myself partially with bear spray. And I'm telling Cory this, I'm like, look, I don't want to go down in there. There's no bowl big enough.


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[Assistant] That's worth the number of grizzly bears that live right down in this drainage.


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[Assistant] Well, before I can impart any further wisdom, I see this little glimmering dot of Kory.


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[Assistant] Heading down through the huckleberries with Laura and our camera guy right behind him and it's like, well, I guess if nothing else, I'm going to be here to witness Cory getting eaten by a grizzly bear and tell his family where his carcass is at.


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[Assistant] So we went down there and Cory calls in this little five point.


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[Assistant] Having talked to a lot of the scientists who show you the mapping of the collared bears and the densities, that drainage we were in,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We violated the law I just mentioned of avoidance is the best, you know, avoiding their area is the best way to avoid an encounter. We violated that rule when you drug us down there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when I do that, there's such steaming piles of fresh bear crap that I'm thinking, alright, I gotta be on the ready.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as I crawl under this log, my elbow hits the spray mechanism. Thankfully, it was pointed behind me.


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[Assistant] But if you've ever heard the noise bear spray makes when it...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the slight thermal coming downhill still in the morning brings that mist of bear spray, just, you know, particles of it. This isn't like the full blast.


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[Assistant] Down into my contacts, I'm like, oh my goodness, my eyes are swelling up. I can't, I'm coughing and hacking. I left.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know the Norman McLean who wrote the book, A River Runs Through It, one of his quotes was, we were too young to know we owed the world a tragedy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It sounds like you guys were too, maybe not too young, but.


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[Assistant] Well I kind of break it down into three activities or three locations, whatever you want to call it, that you need to really be paying attention to. One is your camp.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two is once you have an elk on the ground and you're processing it and then you're coming back to retrieve it.


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[Assistant] And then there's the third thing of just, all right, while you're out doing your hunting, while you're trying to find the elk and have this encounter. And each of them represent different possibilities or probabilities of encountering a bear and require different mindsets or different protocols. Let's put it that way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, to avoid or reduce the likelihood of an encounter. And in the Elk 101 article, uh, Ron starts by talking about, he, he starts with your, the precautions you should take around your camp. And these are, these are textbook


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two, three basic things and then some additional things, but one is keep a clean camp.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, a grizzly bear in September in October is in what they call hyperphasia. They are looking for calories, calories, calories. They don't care who they have to fight for those calories. They're coming to the odor, the smells.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because they want more calories. So keeping a clean camp is, uh, at the top of the list. Uh, and then the, the way you keep a clean camp is how you behave and things that you do while you're in your camp. Uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, for us, and I know you guys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They give some ideas of how you should store and cook your food.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so we've got all these ropes and we store our food and cooking utensils in one bag and then any trash, debris and other stuff in another bag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when we're out in grizzly country, we don't cook with oils or other stuff that you're going to have to pour on the ground or pour into a fire pit or something. If you got, if you're cooking bacon,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You may as well just get your sidearm or your bear spray ready. Not only are you going to have the aroma of the bacon, but for multiple days afterwards it's like, okay, what do I do with all this bacon grease or the oil?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a lot of people are like, oh, I just go dump it on the ground. Well, guess what? You're going to have a bear come by in short order. So you know how you cook and what you cook, uh, that's really important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, these are things that are a pain in the butt, right? Okay, you get back to camp, it's dark, you gotta change clothes just because you don't want your clothes to smell like cooking odors.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then also the other thing that I never really thought about till I read these protocols and I started paying attention to it is your toiletries and other things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keeping a clean camp is super, super important to the actual avoidance of a bear coming into your camp. And when you're hanging your food, you know, I always try to hang mine somewhere


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And where the wind, even if they did smell food, the wind isn't going to drag them through your camp while they're following that odor. Which gets me to the next step.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there's a whole nother set of precautions when you're successful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, hey, cool, I got one, how cool is this? Punch my tag, take some pictures and then it's like, uh oh, guess what?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No matter how I do this, I can't carry all this out in one trip, and I better be thinking about this. So, I think that's where quite a few hunters really get on edges.


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[Assistant] They, they hear the stories that, and many biologists will tell you this, that now in September or October, especially when rifle seasons start,


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[Assistant] Here's the bears I've come to associate gunshots with gut piles.


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[Assistant] That's not some bar room myth. It's, it is proven, they've demonstrated this, that grizzly bears have developed the habits of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In archery season, we don't have that. We just have all this wonderful odor in the air. We haven't had the gunshot to announce our presence, but, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When, when you guys, you know, using the example of Donnie's elk, something tells me you probably didn't just casually


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, we'll do this, we'll do that, let's take some more pictures, let's do this, I mean, for me, when I have one down in grizzly country, I'm pretty serious, you know, I take my pictures, I tag my animal, I do all the things that I gotta do, but I get with the program pretty quickly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, when I hunt grizzly country, I intentionally do not hunt solo. Because if I have success, or my partner has success,


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[Assistant] I have way more comfort with one person doing the carving and cutting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And one person keeping an eye on what's going on. Uh, looking for bears, listening for bears, because when you got your head down there and you're cutting and carving, you're so focused on salvaging every little bit of that meat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That you're distracted. And every year,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are the events where someone's working on an elk, grizzly bear comes up and says, Hey, that's mine. And it's usually not a good outcome for the guy who had his head down carving on the elk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so for that, for that purpose, I usually hunt with someone else with me in grizzly country and you can, one, someone's looking over your shoulder and you can get an elk process and taken care of quicker with two people than you can by yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once the odors are in the air or the gunshot's been fired, it's like,


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[Assistant] To make sure that you get all these protocols taken care of and like you said, I, I haul the carcass or haul the meat a couple hundred yards away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can, I mean sometimes it's so thick you really can't, but I try to find a place where when I come back I can see it from at least a reasonable distance that if it's been messed with