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[Assistant] Let me throw a wild card at you, because it's so interesting hearing you talk about the fits with O'Connell, because I think this is everybody's favorite landing spot for a rookie quarterback. Like universal, across the board. What do you think about the fit with Pennix to Minnesota? And they wouldn't have to trade to three, I'll make that very clear again. I'm like, what do you think?


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[Assistant] Of that kind of fit over there. I think they like him too. I don't know how much.


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[Assistant] Going up to three, I don't believe, but I think they like him a lot.


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[Assistant] Alright, so we'll get to more of the New England side when we go to pick 11. We'll keep this moving. The Cardinals at four, go very chalk. Marvin Harrison Jr. This seems like the favorite to happen, and it's kind of hard to argue against.


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[Assistant] Funny though, when you look at Michael Wilson on that team, it feels like neighbors actually compliments what the offense needs even more. And I love Marvin Harrison Jr. Yea. But like to your point,


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[Assistant] Neighbors is absolutely what that offense doesn't have in any capacity. I know, I know. Like explosive, with and without the football. Yea, I know, I know. So I guess it shouldn't be shocking to see if Arizona went.


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[Assistant] You do have them taking Joe Alt, a tackle, who would probably flip over to the right side in this situation. It'd be interesting how they handle that, but you're buying in the hardball way of, let's build it all in the trenches right now. I think so, I guess.


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[Assistant] It's funny too because Latham is what like every Raven's right tackle has been where Joe Ortiz comes from. Right. So there is rationale to think like they could do it. Exactly. Like there is all the, and I mean Hardball has coached against Latham enough where he knows what he begins.


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[Assistant] Eight, the Falcons, you have them staying put, another team that's definitely open answer on the phone, but they go with Dallas Turner, which,


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[Assistant] Alright, let's move over to the next portion of the draft as we recap 1-8 if you're watching the show. Nine, the Bears. This was the first one where I was like, oh, this is different. You have them taking Layatu Latu, the pass rusher from UCLA.


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[Assistant] And to your point about it, they also pick at 75 if they want that, you know, middle of the roster pass catcher. Like you can get a developmental pass catcher to play behind the veterans at 75. It's not like this is your one chance.


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[Assistant] People think they can move up for a wide receiver. I think they would love to move back to get more day two capital. I think it's going to be easier said than done. Yup. You have them taking, ironically my favorite pick for them. Yeah. Troy Futano from Washington because Futano played left tackle. He could probably truly play all five


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[Assistant] Tyronn Smith hasn't played a full season since 2015. That's almost a decade ago.


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[Assistant] That's insane. And the thing I always argue with Fitanu is, John Simpson was a fine signing at left guard. Troy Fitanu is winning the left guard job over John Simpson. So your offensive line would be Tyron Smith, Troy Fitanu, Joe Tipman, Elijah Vera Tucker, Morgan Moses. Like that's how Aaron Rodgers is going to have success. I would agree with that, totally.


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[Assistant] Versatility, it really is, I get it, I see it right away too. Yeaah, I think Fatanu and Taliza Fuangu are the two offensive linemen in play for the Jets of 10. 11, alright, the Patriots. This was the move back. So you have them taking Drake May here, completely makes sense. Here's my question for you with the Patriots. Say they answer the phone like you think they could.


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[Assistant] Do you think there's a cutoff that they go, we just can't go there, because like you said, we still need a guy.


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[Assistant] And the, like, 11 might not be the cutoff. You got a quarterback fall. There's two quarterbacks here. But right, what is like the danger thought for them?


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[Assistant] He's the point guard of this quarterback class. Yeaah, yeaah. I hear you there. Like, you don't want him chucking up 33s.


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[Assistant] You gotta go get a quarterback. You gotta have it happen. Alright, 14, the Saints. Byron Murphy comes off the board here. He is the third defensive player off the board in this situation.


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[Assistant] He could also play guard. I could see them knowing what bowler values until he's a fuwanga. That's the one.


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[Assistant] 16, you have a trade up again. Yeaah. I do think this team should be aggressive and I like what you did here for the Eagles coming into Seattle. I got the Eagles going up to 16.


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[Assistant] The Eagles have two second rounders, pick 50 and pick 53. So if they want to go, they can. They got the ammo to do it.


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[Assistant] 17 Jacksonville Jaguars. You have them taking one of my favorite corners in the draft. If you could just get a little bit bigger. That's Nate Wiggins and Clemson. Uh huh, uh huh.


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[Assistant] From left tackle to right guard, they are all paid. All paid. And then the other ones, their first rounder from last year, Anton Harrison, right tackle.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and for the people that have the concerns about the size, I'll say this about Nate Wiggins, he doesn't turn 21 until the end of his first training camp. He's one of the youngest players in the draft. So if you're looking to buy in and believe he's going to get bigger and stronger, he's really young.


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[Assistant] Yeah, right, Deon Sanders as Peter reminds us. Alright, I gotta ask you about 18. I wanna spend time on this. Bangles at 18, Roman Dunze. I think if he was there, it makes a ton of sense. Is this one where you got to this point in the draft and you're like, you know what, I just didn't find a place for Roman Dunze, or is this some of, hey, you never know, like a guy could, there's always a guy each year that we didn't see coming that falls.


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[Assistant] Alright, let me walk the people through the next scenario. So you had the Seahawks trade out of 16 with the Eagles. That sent them to 22. Now you have the Rams


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[Assistant] Trade with Seattle. Yeah. Right. Right. So the Seahawks now are back up to 19. Yes. From 22. A little bit of Arizona style last year. Exactly. Bounce around the board. What, what did you have them do that?


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[Assistant] I also think, I like the thought with the Rams too. I think the Rams will be really flexible. They're in no man's land at 19. I think so too. Whether it's up or down. Right. I think we'll see a lot of flexibility with them.


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[Assistant] Alright, 20 the Steelers. You have them getting what I think is one of the better values of this giraffe.


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[Assistant] The variance on him is insane. It really is. I know people that are like, not my type in the first round, I know people that are like top 15 pick every day. Exactly. Eileen Moore, I think he's the top 15 pick. I don't think he will be.


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[Assistant] Twenty-one of the Dolphins, this is just one of those picks that it just makes so much sense, with Graham Barton, elite athlete, another guy probably gonna play guard, but in a pinch could probably survive a tackle, which is where he plays.


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[Assistant] 22, the Rams, this is them moving back three spots because of the Seattle trade. You have them taking Darius Robinson from Missouri, who's played, uh, D-Tackle and edge pass rusher as well. He's played all up and down the line of scrimmage.


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[Assistant] So then, a guy like, uh, Darius Robinson, a little more heavy handed.


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[Assistant] So 23, the Patriots get to pick again from the Minnesota trade, and man, do they need a left tackle in the worst way, and you have them taking a Marius Mims.


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[Assistant] I think I've told you this before, for Patriots fans listening, cause they probably were like, oh well he played right tackle, we need a left tackle. Mims told me he practiced 40% of the time at left tackle. At his practices at Georgia. Those practices are just different there, like they get those guys tailor-made for the NFL. So this dude, he truly can play either side.


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[Assistant] 25, the Packers, Cooper Dejean, who can do everything for that secondary that kinda needs that chess piece player.


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[Assistant] 26, the Bucks get past Rush Help. I think this is an area they really need. And Jared Verst falls to 26, which should be great for them.


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[Assistant] At 27, the Cardinals back on the clock. They took Marvin Harrison Jr. at four. Here you have them go corner with Tarion Arnold.


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[Assistant] The bills with wide receiver at 28 feels like a lock. I would call.


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[Assistant] 29TheLions, you have this a fit that I've really liked as well. Uh, I did a what I would do mock draft and had this pick. Chop Robinson, pass rusher from Penn State, because with, uh, Aiden Hutchinson across the way, now you just have an explosive guy that things are kinda watered down of what you're asking him to do.


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[Assistant] Okay, uh, 30 the Ravens. This is where you had Adonai Mitchell come off the board. The Ravens need a wider receiver for sure, and he's got size and speed.


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[Assistant] So, if Mitchell's on the board and they don't take him?


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[Assistant] I thought about it, right? Because of the IUK situation. It's just getting worse by the day. And the fact that like we, at least me, I think this is Devo's last year with the Niners. I wouldn't be shocked.


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[Assistant] One of the best run blockers in the draft. That's what they value, right? Yea, like, jack of all trades.


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[Assistant] To close this thing out, the Chiefs at 32, I think this is one of the best values of the draft, I really like this player. You have them taking Jerzon, Johnny Newton, D-Tackle from Illinois.


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[Assistant] Alright, let's break down your mock draft. The number of players by position.


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[Assistant] Nine, and we'll recap the whole thing right here if you're watching. Uh, so a couple notes here. Number of players by position, nine offensive linemen.


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[Assistant] Six guys you view as tackles. Three as guards. Six quarterbacks. This would be the second draft ever with six quarterbacks in round one. That was 1983. Five wide receivers. That was a good draft. Four edge pass rushers. Four defensive backs.


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[Assistant] Three, no safeties, unless you count, well you count on Cooper DeGene as kind of, so he'd be the only one.


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[Assistant] Yeah, him and Kool-Aid did not make the first round. Three defensive tackles.


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[Assistant] One tight end, of course, Brock Bowers. To the surprise of no one, no running backs, no off-ball linebackers. Yeah, I, I don't think that's happening. No. I can confidently say there will not be a first round running back. The only guy, if there's going to be an off-ball linebacker, and I still say it won't happen, would be Junior Coulson from Michigan. Yeah, well, he could sneak in.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's, it's, it's a long, tedious process. It definitely is. And you start to, like, did I set this up the wrong way?


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[Assistant] Alright, everybody's probably wondering the plan for this week. So here's all our promo stuff, right? To find all the 2024 NFL Draft content from Unbuttoned, Fantasy Football Happy Hour, PFT, and more, mbcsports.com slash NFL Draft. Of course, everything's there.


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[Assistant] You and Ahmed pick reactions from the barn again. I watched those from last year. It's great. Hilarious. Excellent content. Thank you. Uh, Florio pick reactions from his barn. Yeah. Dueling barns. I like it. I know. It's good living. I know.


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[Assistant] Me, Jay, uh, and Barry will be here doing reactions for every pick from the Happy Hour. Except we don't have a barn. Cool.


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[Assistant] Whatever it is. That's what I would say. And you know what? It actually might go really well. Right. Honestly. Yea. Lee, I would like you to report back. Yea. Please. To Sims Unbund. I want to hear what you feel. I actually want to know how you pulled this off. Or if it's just a complete catastrophe.


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[Assistant] Hi and welcome to episode four of the Chernobyl podcast. It's the podcast you listen to when you've watched the HBO series Chernobyl and you just need to talk to somebody about it. Well,


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[Assistant] We are here for you. My name is Peter Sagal. I'm here with the series writer, producer and creator, Craig Mazum. Good to be here, Peter. It's always good to be back with you. We are talking of course about the series Chernobyl being presented on HBO and Sky.


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[Assistant] And today, of course, we're talking about episode four, the penultimate episode of this series, which I will admit right now is my favorite, I think, of the five for three reasons.


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[Assistant] I guess these aren't spoilers, because everybody's watched the episode, I hope, because of the real-time sequence on the roof with the biorobots, because of, I don't know what you want to call it, the self-contained story of Pavel, the liquidator, and because of one of the greatest tantrums I've ever seen performed on film by Stellan Skarsgård. Let's go through the episode, though, from the beginning.


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[Assistant] Another remarkable little scene with someone who really doesn't want to leave. And that is what I believe I used to call a babushka.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. The soldier in the, uh, in the open ends up being somewhat merciful.


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[Assistant] As you eat your hamburgers. Yes, exactly. Don't worry. Yeah. They didn't, they didn't do anything mean to this cow. Like raise it in an industrial farm. Yes, exactly. Let's not go there. Maybe we just need this moment of levity. It is hilarious to think it's like cut, bring in the stunt cow, and then roll in the cow on wheels. I imagine like something out of Money Python. Pretty much. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Yes. Don't, don't hurt June Watson. All right. We check in as the episode now begins after the credits with Lyudmila who's now moved to Kiev. Right. And we're going to see her again.


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[Assistant] But we're not going to focus on her. Her pregnancy is happening in the background. And it's obvious that you want to make sure that her story continues in the background of this episode.


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[Assistant] It's, I just realized this, that of course using Lidmilla marking her pregnancy is a way of just establishing, as they say in the screenwriting classes, a clock.


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[Assistant] There's a clock in this episode. We know because the pregnancy continues and completes by the end of this episode, right? Right. That that's how long it's taken. Here we learn at the top of the episode about the roof. Yes. And by the way, this is the first time I'll mention this. We had talked when we began this podcast series about the things that, well, I remembered about.


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[Assistant] Chernobyl. And one of the things that I remembered but didn't mention then was the idea of the sarcophagus.


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[Assistant] It was covered with concrete in a sarcophagus to protect it. And I had vaguely known that a lot of people lost their lives or endangered themselves to build it.


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[Assistant] We never see the sarcophagus being built, which was that a...


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[Assistant] Instead of focusing on the building of the sarcophagus, we focus on the clearing of the roots. And this is another instance where


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[Assistant] The problem they're facing seems almost ridiculously simple. Like video games simple. In order to complete this mission, you have to remove the rubble from the roof. But as Legasov explains, that's the problem. There's all this stuff on the roof, they have to throw it back into the reactor so they can build the sarcophagus over the reactor. It's that simple.


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[Assistant] And of course the material is, as we've discussed, that highly radioactive graphite that landed on the roof at the explosion, which we, again, we will see in episode 5. It was really that simple, they just needed to get the stuff off the roof.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's, that was in my notebook. Really? Again, we intercut this to the episode, but let's just focus on this for now. Yeah, let's walk through this. So the problem I have is you have to get stuff on the roof, it's highly radioactive, you can't send people up there. Right. And one thing we just need to establish is a baseline, which is that I picked up.


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[Assistant] Is that your exposure to radiation is cumulative and it


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[Assistant] Let's get to how they, the people who had to make their armor to go up on the roof got to that point. Right. So we go through the sequence and they're using...


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[Assistant] Russian lunar landers. Lunacogs, yes. They managed to clean off the first two roofs. And then we get to the Joker. By the way, where did you get a, uh, a police robot?


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[Assistant] Right. I mean, it is weird, because I mean, you can imagine that kind of lie being told.


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[Assistant] A husband coming home. Oh, I had two drinks when he had five. Right. And we all are familiar with that. Well, I'll just try to get away with this lie because it's less embarrassing.


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[Assistant] But to apply that to the level of a state dealing with an emergency of this nature is extraordinary to think about. That they'd rather not be, as you point out later, not be humiliated.


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[Assistant] And as we see, they started from the presumption that a human being could be out on that route for a total of 90 seconds.


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[Assistant] The extent of this operation is a little clearer in the script, where you make it very clear that this happened over a series of months.


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[Assistant] They would bring in crews of men who were ordered to do this. Were they military? Were they just conscripted? They were conscripted. They were conscripted guys that were brought there.


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[Assistant] The general would give them this briefing, which he gave over and over and over.


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[Assistant] We lead our way up to a reenactment of one of those, I don't know what you're gonna call it, sorties out onto the roof. Right. It's in real time, it's in, if, if people were to time it on their watches while watching the show, it's 90 seconds or thereabouts. Yep. Three thousand men did this. Got suited up, went to the roof.


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[Assistant] There's a lot of things that you can ask about the biorobots, where they came from, what their experience was going there and coming out. But in order to address those questions, we can go over to the other plot thread of this episode, which is the story of Pavel. Right.


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[Assistant] Tens of thousands of men were conscripted, uh, hundreds of thousands of men were conscripted, brought to the exclusion zone and put to work liquidating. Liquidating. Obviously you chose to focus on the one person's experience to stand in for the whole. How did you choose this person in this job?


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[Assistant] So Pavel is a kid. He's just some kid who was conscripted, some guy showed up with a gun, presumably still in his holster and said, you're coming with me, you're going to Chernobyl.


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[Assistant] Speaking of men, Pavel shows up, an innocent, and meets Bacho.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. From radiation. I have to say the moment where Pavel's like, alright, and he says, undoing his pants, and Bacchus says, no, you don't put them, you put them on over your clothes. I totally would have done that. Yeah. I would have been like, okay, I will help.


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[Assistant] Sticking with Pavel, their wonderful day in the exclusion zone. The details that you offer that I assume you got from a first person account are chilling. For example, they'll come to you, the animals, because they want to be fed. They associate humans with being fed.


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[Assistant] Right. And everything else he puts aside and just deals with it. Has lunch. It's almost as if he's like looking at Pavel. Pavel's like not eating his lunch. All right, well, you know, I'll, I'll get a little bit more for myself. Um, and then we get of course to what will be known forevermore as the Chernobyl puppy scene.


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[Assistant] It's almost as if you make it in big enough letters and make the banner big enough, people might believe it.


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[Assistant] Yes, certain lies have to be shouted. We have our lunch and then we move on and we find our puppies.


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[Assistant] Alright, we leave Pavel, we're talking about this episode in sort of dramatic through lines rather than scene by scene, but the third element of this is the continuation of the investigation. Right. We return to the hospital, we try to have another conversation with Yatlov, whose attitude is, it doesn't matter.


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[Assistant] And it's interesting because this is a guy who's defiant, but that's the moment where he's actually kind of accepting, where he's like, it doesn't matter what the story is. The lies will win and I will get the bullet.


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[Assistant] There's a constant question that comes up and will again, how does an RBMK reactor explode? It's impossible. It can't happen. Right.


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[Assistant] And there's that interesting scene where she asks for certain documents. A guy appears. We're never told who the guy is, but we understand what he represents. He allows her to look at one book or article.


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[Assistant] What's important, and we're going to explore that in detail in episode five, but right now what's important is Kolmyuk has found this out. She has certainly found that there is a secret about these reactors. Correct. And she comes back and she's back at Chernobyl and she's talking to Shirabina and she's talking to Legasov. And it turns out that Legasov knows. Right. And he's always known.


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[Assistant] So at this point, we're, I don't know how many months, well, at least nine months after the accident, because of course the last image we have is Ludmilla without her baby.


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[Assistant] Nine months later, there's going to be a conference. I know it's in Vienna, this conference about atomic energy.


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[Assistant] And Legasov is going to go and a discussion happens about telling the truth. I'll go after you.


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[Assistant] And that's a really powerful moment because we're talking about the value of telling the truth and standing up and telling the truth no matter what. And Shurbina...


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[Assistant] has this moment that I thought was both realistic to someone like him and also profoundly true. I.e. I've known braver men than you, and when the time came for them to tell the truth,


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[Assistant] Damn the torpedoes no matter the consequences. They couldn't do it. Because the consequences are real.


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[Assistant] This isn't, if you'd excuse me, a movie. This isn't where you stand up and tell the truth and you get applauded in the credits roll. This is where you stand up and you go to prison and your family goes to prison.


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[Assistant] He really did. It's interesting, we've talked about before how you choose not to show Legasov's family, his social circle, and they existed. He had a wife, he had kids, we don't see them.


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[Assistant] And for clarity and simplicity that was a wise choice, but it's easy to forget when you're looking at Jared Harris, an actor playing this part really, really well, that the real person


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[Assistant] Was a real person that he had very, very strong incentives not to rock any boats. Just as, just as Shabina says, you think about your family, your friends.


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[Assistant] That was another thing I was really curious about. If you look at the way that we've ended, you've ended the prior three episodes.


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[Assistant] Fairly dramatic. The first episode, people playing and what they don't know is a poisonous atmosphere, bird falls in the sky, go to black. Second episode, these men trying to literally save the world. In the dark. In the dark, and their flashlights go out. Black. Episode three.


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[Assistant] The burial of these men who we've seen die, the concrete rising up over their coffins, pretty serious. This episode ends with a bereft woman alone in a room.


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[Assistant] So we leave episode four with the stakes very clear and the choice very difficult.


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[Assistant] Facing our scientists and our principal characters and we'll find out what happens and we'll also find out what happened at Chernobyl in episode five when we're back next week. This has been the Chernobyl podcast talking about episode four of the Chernobyl mini series on HBO.


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[Assistant] And on Sky, I am Peter Sagal, and I've had the honor of talking about the show with its creator, Craig Mazin.


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[Assistant] You can listen to this podcast, which I assume you know because you've been listening to it.


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[Assistant] Via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, NPR One, or wherever else you choose to get your podcast. It's also available on YouTube. Or the HBO Go and HBO Now apps. Don't just use them to watch TV, use them to listen to things.


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[Assistant] And of course we'd love it if you were to rate and recommend this podcast especially. You know, I don't, tweet it out. Just tell everybody that this is something they need to do because you'll be wanting to talk about it when you see everybody this weekend. We will be back next week.


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[Assistant] With the final episode of the Chernobyl Podcast, talking about the final episode of Chernobyl. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Peter.


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[Assistant] And this was the kind of thing that you would hear on Soviet radio. It was largely skewed towards classical music or patriotic poetry of this sort. This is a beautiful poem written by a poet named Konstantin Simonov and the poem is called To Alexei Surkov.


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[Assistant] This was written in July of 1941, which was right after the


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[Assistant] Correct. What I loved about it as I just went through looking for poems and this one, I thought, oh wow, this.


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[Assistant] This encapsulates the spirit of the people that went to battle with Chernobyl.


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[Assistant] In this, you get it all, as far as I'm concerned, the great bitter land I was born to defend. So there's an acknowledgement that this place, the Russia that we fight for, it's full of dull towns. It's full of country tracks, graves everywhere, women mourning and crying and.


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[Assistant] It seems quite miserable, and you're constantly being shot at, and yet you- And yet- And yet! Still!


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[Assistant] In a sense, flying helicopters over an open nuclear reactor, going into irradiated water, just being a scientist and staying there.


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[Assistant] You feel an extension of this notion of being born for this.


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[Assistant] Oh absolutely, this is a man talking about his duty to his country while he's walking by endless graveyards of people that have taken bullets before him. You know, I-


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[Assistant] Obviously we made a choice there to do it in Russian. We tried as best as we could.


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[Assistant] Whenever there wasn't somebody speaking in a scene, which isn't frequently, but this is a great example, to be as accurate as we could and to do it in Russian. All the lettering, for instance, throughout the shows in Cyrillic. Right.


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[Assistant] Hopefully people get the point. Right. We don't do a lot of translating for them. Right. But it helped us situate this story in the play.


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[Assistant] Right, we had this, uh, challenge right off the bat. There were hundreds of scientists that ultimately worked on the problem of Chernobyl. Valeri Legasov, played by Jared Harris, was kind of the scientist in charge of this effort, but there were so many more who were involved, and those scientists


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of them actually were in positions of opposition, essentially to Legasa. They were at times more aggressive about the potential dangers. They challenged him on some of the solutions that he was considering. And in order to consolidate these many, many people into one, I felt I had to create a composite character.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wanna just, right off the bat, this is played by the incredible Emily Watson. I wanna talk for a second about gender. Right. The Soviet Union was, in many ways,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very regressive in terms of, uhm, it's gender politics. The power structures are almost entirely male. And the show reflects that. There's, you know, I don't know, probably 90% of the characters are male. That reflects the reality of what happened in the Soviet Union.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But one area that they were fairly progressive in was science and medicine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There were probably a higher proportion of female medical doctors in the Soviet Union in 1986 than there were in the United States. And there were quite a few female academicians who worked in programs like nuclear science programs. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I thought it was an important thing to show where the Soviets actually were kind of progressive in this regard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'll see a lot of the doctors in the show are women because that reflected the reality. So we invested a lot of this stuff into Emily's character, this sense of a check on Legasov and also frankly,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just to get into Legasov's character, if I may for a second. Oh, of course. So, at the end of episode one, he's called by this man named Boris Sherbinos. Right. That's a real man. Was a real man. Played by, in this case, Stellan Skarsgard, also amazing. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sherbina asks Legasov if he is an expert in RBMK reactors, and Legasov sort of starts to say I am. In fact, he wasn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Legasov worked, he was the, you know, very high up at the Kerchatov Institute, which was the premier nuclear physics Institute in the Soviet union, but he was more in the chemistry area of things. I mean, he knew a lot about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Radiation and the chemistry of radioactive materials, but he was not really an expert on the function of an RBMK nuclear reactor and a lot of other people were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And those people very frequently had to kind of help him out and explain to him in certain ways, this is why this is happening and this is why this is not. So one of the other functions of the character of Ulanokomuk is to frankly be a little bit smarter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be a little bit smarter, a little bit more aware and a challenge to him to do better, as they say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That this level of radiation they were, they were detecting was the result of a leak from inside the lab.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They figured out fairly quickly that it was coming from outside. And they did call Chernobyl and no one answered the phone. This was basically when, when they started to realize something terrible had happened. And when they started to call, people would say things like, nope, no problem. Stop asking questions. You don't want to ask that question. It was a sort of that deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But while this was happening fairly quickly inside of the Soviet Union.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The cloud was moving its way across Europe and eventually would arrive in Sweden where this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wish we had had time to shoot. I would have loved to have shot the scene, but it's the scene where, and this is what happened, a worker at a Swedish power plant basically sets off an alarm. And he sets off an alarm because his shoe has picked up a piece of dirt that has a piece of fallout from Chernobyl. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's, that's accurate. Yeah, that's accurate. There was a limited understanding, uh, at least among the older doctors who were not trained at all in this kind of thing as to what this even was. And there was a frightening prevalence of what I would just call kind of folk medicine going on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And of course one of the other doctors realized this pretty quickly and this is again inspired by true events that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Important note for those at home. Correct. But once they realized that these are nuclear burns, they did remove all the clothes from the firefighters and they did bring them down to the basement and those clothes are there today.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, depending on the circumstances, these particles we're talking about are atomic. They're subatomic, these neutrons. And when you have these particles on you and in you just from breathing,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I breathe these things in from smoke, they're in my body. They are now radiating inside of me outwards. Right. There's a terrible story. I mean, it's a shocking story from the night of that we contemplated shooting and just couldn't fit it in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where a guy named Gorbachevko, who's the dosimetrist in episode one, who says, are they bombing? Which by the way, a lot of people in the plant thought was, that was what was going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He rescues another guy, tries to rescue another guy who doesn't make it. And in the account, he had been carrying this guy and the guy's hand had been loosely resting on Gorbachevko's back. And when he finally puts the guy down, he feels a burn on his back and he lifts his shirt and there's a burn in the shape of a palm print on his back because that man's hand


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he was told that there had been a minor industrial incident. Anytime there is an accident, a nuclear power plant, it's prudent for the government to make sure things are going okay. I think one of the reasons that Legasov was called was because Legasov was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A rather zealous member of the party. He was considered...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A real Soviet and a loyalist and somebody that you could count on to just, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Toe the party line, as they say. Not to take away from his expertise, he was a brilliant scientist in his own right. But that's why he was called in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that is my suspicion. And the manner in which he kind of deduces that there may be something worse and the motivation to go there, this is a compression and combination of a number of events. That the way that scene unfolds is my own interpretation of things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I did not want to show what I think is essentially an invention of who Gorbachev was. I don't think Gorbachev was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, a bad guy by any stretch. I mean, in the long run of Soviet premieres, certainly the Brezhnev and Andropov and Chernenko run there. He was, it was good that he came along and he did a lot of good, but he was a bureaucrat. I mean, you don't become the general secretary of the communist party of the Soviet Union.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you're, you know, a super reformer. Also, he just had no idea. None of them really knew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, no one ever expected that Shcherbina would be taking over. No one, he was not that guy. He wasn't the person you talk about if, if Gorbachev dies, who takes over. Right. Shcherbina, no, there are other guys and there were, and there were also other powerful people in the Soviet Union that we don't hear much about like Premier Ryshkov and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you probably remember Andrei Gromyko. Yeah. You know, Andrei Gromyko was incredibly influential inside that government. But Arshir Bina was more like, you know, probably on par with the secretary of agriculture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he was somebody you wouldn't want to mess with. So he posed no real threat to the people that were in power, but he could definitely mess your life up. I mean, he was pretty high up in, in, in position.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, then this is, you know, fairly accurate to accounts that Sherbina was tough. He was a tough guy. Um, he wasn't quite as tall as Stalin is. Who is?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Quickly figured out that this was a war and it had to be won and he was kind of in it to win it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So here's the deal with radiation because it-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's very frustrating when you read about it because you're trying to make sense of why did this person die and this person not die.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So your exposure to radiation is defined essentially by three factors. One, how much radiation is coming from the source? Two, how far away are you from it? And three, how long are you in that spot?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reactor is, imagine this nuclear reactor is essentially kind of like a big pit in the ground. This is sort of just a big, it's like a big tub.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's inside this build, so there's still walls around it because remember all that force went upward. Right. The nuclear fuel is inside that reactor and in this moment it is burning. The graphite, which is part of it, is also radioactive, is burning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the radiation that is spread outwards and around is essentially been carried up by smoke particles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's exactly what they are. They are very very very tiny.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the quirks of the Soviet system, we think of it as, as just a, you know, a huge palace built on lies, but some of it was true. For instance, this notion that it would be a government of the worker, by the worker, for the worker.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of the people that did end up as high level bureaucrats were workers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A number of these people did come out of factory positions. They were, they worked in a factory. They became the foreman of the factory. They then became sort of the head of a council that dealt with five of the factories. And eventually you become, um, the chairman of the communist party of an entire Soviet socialist Republic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We do know that in the direct aftermath of the explosion, there was a concerted effort to instruct all of the bosses, the party bosses to do nothing. And one of the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unfortunate coincidences of this accident is that it occurred five days before May 1st, which is the International Workers Day. I mean, it's, it's Labor Day. It's probably, I guess it was the most important holiday in the Soviet Union. So we're talking about parades.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in Kiev, in Minsk, there were party officials who honestly, it seems to me, begged. Begged.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To cancel the parade. Right. And they were told, not only will you not cancel the parade, but you'll be walking in it too. Right. And they did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He tries and I think that that's what I wanted. You know, unfortunately we just had to some things we lost for time, but I did want to show and I'm glad I get a chance to talk about it here that a lot of these people would.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When they were told to do something, they would do it convincingly, but they weren't monsters. They would then try to work behind the scenes in some sort of diplomatic, bureaucratic way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To do what was correct in this case, and this is where, you know, I look at somebody like Gorbachev and I think, you knew this was going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were told to get out on the streets and we have photos of, you know, the May day parade in Kiev, 1986. And when you look at these photos, every single one of those people is in danger.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly correct. So by the time Moscow finally says, okay, okay, we, we have to evacuate this town.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The rest of the world already knows people have been getting pulled off the streets. Um, there were curfews in places like Germany or East Germany and West Germany, but not in Pripyat. Right. And, and that's the shocking, just shocking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She is real and her husband, uh, Vasily Mutenko, uh, lived, was real. He was a firefighter and the actions that occurred that night are, are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very much inspired by a story that she tells, um, that she tells in the book, Voices of Chernobyl. So I really took her story. I tried to tell it as accurately as I could because it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just incredibly moving and beautiful and I didn't really do anything to embellish it or change facts. I really just took what was there that she reported and I found her story to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The most heart wrenching of all the stories that I read because it was so much about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Love. Characters played by, um, Jessie Buckley, who, you know, in talking about this with her, she said she was, she was attracted to playing this character because the character was just all about love and how love just blinds you to almost anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Adam Negatus plays her, her husband, the silly, who's just kind of the paragon of heroism.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's actually a wonderful documentary about Ludmilla also. It's a Swedish documentary. I don't know if it's findable. Ludmilla Roast is what I think it is in Swedish. Anyway, it's a beautiful documentary. If anyone can find it, it's, it's well worth watching. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sometimes as humans, when we are in situations that are overwhelming, we seek to comfort ourselves in the most minuscule ways, even if we know they're not significant and they won't change anything. We try, but Pripyat was functioning. And so this is the Polissia Hotel, who's the hotel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We replicated it, I think, you know, the exterior of it. I mean, with the help of visual effects and down to the, down to the brick, I believe, or chunk of concrete as it were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yeah, that's where he stayed. And that's where they all stayed for a while, actually. Even after the evacuation, a number of the people that were supervising this effort to put this fire out were headquartered at the Polizio Hotel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The buses were Kiev municipal buses. They expected that they were going to have to evacuate this town as.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were monitoring the radiation coming from the plant and as they were dropping the sand and the boron and the lead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It started to get a little better than it started to get much worse. And they said, okay, it's time. So they were prepared. They had a thousand, I think it was a thousand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kiev buses, which is probably all of the buses in Kiev waiting at night, just waiting. And then they eventually get the signal the next day it's on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a caravan of a thousand buses makes its way to Pripyat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the citizenry by all accounts except one. So I went with all accounts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, reflective of the society in which they lived and grew up, the police said, you're coming with us, you're getting on the bus, you can take one suitcase, no pets, you'll be back in a few days. Get on the bus. And everybody said, okay. And I'll wait in the line and get on the bus. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With very little protests. I mean, normally you'd look at that and say like, oh my God, they're leading lambs to a slaughter, but really they're leading the lambs away from the slaughter. But they're doing this on a scale that like you say is unimaginable in the West. And they went to the hospital and said, everybody out, including all the sick people. Right. And they said, okay. And they got on, they got on the buses and they drove away and they never, ever, ever came back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So initially they, a lot of them did end up in Kiev. I mean, they were held in a bunch of places. In fact, somebody told me that there was a.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here, here's another Pripyat. Everybody go live there. And a lot of people did in fact go and work in Slavutich. And to this day, a lot of the people that still work at the power plant monitoring the electrical switches, cause it's still part of the grid, live in Slavutich.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's more Soviet than that? We'll just, uh, we'll do it again. Read- Do over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was to drop sand and boron and then start mixing it with lead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there were actually a couple of scientists who made the argument that the most effective thing to do would actually be to just let it burn out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Layers. There's a shield and then there's a big concrete pad and this is designed specifically to slow down a meltdown and so we'll have time to get underneath it and deal with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what they came to understand with terror.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was that they were days away from a thermal explosion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the idea there is you have a container, a very rigid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Steel container, I think, possibly concrete of about 7,000 cubic meters of water, which is a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if, if melting nuclear fuel burns through and hits it, that will flash vaporize all that water to steam. And then what is a bomb? A bomb is basically a lot of pressure inside a very rigid container that finally snaps. That would have destroyed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of the other three reactors, which by the way, we're still operating. Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's one of the reasons the accident happens in the first place and we'll get to that detail later on in the series.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But this power plant was powering most of Kiev basically. It was, it was, it was the linchpin of Ukrainian power. If they shut it all down without any other preparation, that's devastating to an entire city and economy and industry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Correct, while helicopters are buzzing constantly overhead, dropping sand, lead and boron on a burning open nuclear reactor, you know, maybe a half a kilometer away from you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I believe that reactors one through three functioned mostly through the nineties. They started getting shut down in the late nineties. And the final one I think was reactor three was shut down in the year 2000.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, at the very least it would make Ukraine and Belarus uninhabitable for quite some time and it would have a, it would have had a terrible impact on


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, basically to open the gates that were holding all the water in those steam suppression bubbler pools. And so you needed people that could...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically find it in the dark. It was an absolute maze down there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The level of water, I think a lot of people have reported that, you know, it was like, you know, swimming in a fish bowl. It wasn't quite like that. The water I think got as far up to their chests, you know, but they were in full scuba gear and there were three of them and those were the three of them. Those are their names and they did it. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That part is true and there's a phrase that they started to use.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Called Counting Lives, which Gorbachev I think uses in this scene.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of counting lives where in order to assess what they should do next, one of the factors was how many lives will we take?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because some of them, there was no way to do it unless you were willingly sending people to what was certainly going to be their death.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I wanted to dramatize that notion, which was a very real thing in a moment. And I thought it was important too, for the audience to know that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Soviets were not blithely sending people to their deaths. This was not a kind of evil empire where people just went, oh, who cares? Just kill a bunch of people until it goes away. No, they, they were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This was very difficult to do, and they didn't want anyone to die, and they were unfortunately in a position where they had no choice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they were weighing essentially either this amount of people will die or this amount. Let's count lives and see which one is better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He really does. He's so good and he occupied, not only did he occupy this man's mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In this remarkable and convincing way, but also his body. There are a number of moments where he stumbles as he walks. He's clumsy. He's reticent. He's awkward. And I think that adds a lot to what is ultimately.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A character that we have seen, but never seen kind of realistically. And that's the scientist hero. Right. Um, typically the scientist hero is far too good looking and muscular.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Denise Richards as, as, what was her name? Christmas Jones. Yeah, so, and they're named Christmas, which, you know, is not typical. Uhm, but, you know, for me and for Johan, when we were casting, and this is not, I mean, these are all beautiful people. All actors are, have remarkable facial symmetry. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All ordinary people and they would offer people these.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As you said, lame incentives. 400 rubles, I think, plus a memo, maybe? 400 rubles, you get a promotion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, there were times when I would think like, well...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This feels like an action movie cliche, but it happened. I can't not say what happened. That's the point. You have to say it. So let me at least try and not, you know, gild the lily. Right. But yeah, in general...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For me and then for Johan, when he was shooting, we always were shy about anything that felt cliche or conventional. We always wanted to kind of go in the other direction. If something would seem like it would be really big, we wanted to make it really small.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Soviet, yes, by design. I mean, we really wanted to, again, put you in that world. And also I think when you're dealing with something this inherently dramatic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's only danger in adding your own drama on top of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you're just diminishing the, the truth, which is shocking in and of itself. Right. It's one of the reasons I'm glad you mentioned our scores, uhm, composed by Hildur Agudinadottir. I'm not pronouncing that exactly the right Icelandic way because literally it's the hardest language on the planet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But Hilder did a gorgeous job. She is a genius and so much of what she did was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. Because when you go dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, you're telling people feel things, feel things. And we really just wanted you to feel them honestly. And then the score was there to kind of just be with you, not lead you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Were you kidding us? No, no. So there's versions of this story. Um, some of which have gone a little bit into urban legend and we, we've done, I think a really good job of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there was a moment that actually he didn't even put in that was even scarier where one of the guys reported that he sort of waved his dosimeter and he saw through like a crack, uh, in, in the wall, something glowing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he held his decimeter up, it kind of went off the scale and he just said to these, uh, to his other guys, we need to move quickly. So that's something I left out, but there were a number of accounts that indicated that the lights went out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, and again, this is kind of cobbled together from multiple accounts, but yeah, I, that's as far as we could tell that is an accurate account.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the smoke and the dust was carried with the winds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Northwest, over Sweden, over northern Sweden and eastern Sweden, and for years we could not eat mushrooms that we picked in the forest, we could not eat reindeer, because the reindeer ate mosses that were infected, and uh, you can still sort of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Detect radiation in some parts of Sweden, sometimes in animals and sometimes in plants.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thankfully I didn't take the bait last week. The Ravens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did to the Dolphins what I thought the 49ers would do to the Ravens. I'm not going to use that phrase again. But 56 to 19, we both were right about that. It was one of my best bets. It's the Joint Megapix Podcast. Chris Sims Unbuttoned and PFTPM. Chris.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Before we started, Pete Demolitis advised me that we have a full slate of games this week, so there's no time to dilly dally, which means we will dilly dally. We will talk about other stuff. Pete, that was the worst thing you could have done. Well, what are you gonna dilly dally about?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's talk about, uh, the latest with Aaron Rodgers, Jimmy Kimmel, and Pat Mackey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or not. Or not. Here we are from last week. Here we are from last week. We are still tied. Straight up. We are still tied. Best bet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Saturday games, Steelers at the Ravens. Steelers are favored by four points because the Ravens don't plan to play Lamar Jackson and if other starters play it will be a cameo appearance at best.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pittsburgh clinches a playoff berth with a win and a loss by the Bills or the Jaguars. With a loss, Pittsburgh still gets in through a convoluted set of factors that isn't really worth the time to explain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you like the Steelers to go to Baltimore and win? And there's a lot of buzz out there that the Ravens should gladly lose to the Steelers if it keeps the Bills out. That the Bills are a more dangerous opponent in the playoffs than the Steelers. I don't know that I buy that. Either way, who do you like on Saturday?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Ravens really don't want to win this game if they would be telling the complete truth. I think Tyler Huntley, Pro Bowler last year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pro Bowler in 2022 getting his first start of the season in week 18 because MVP Lamar Jackson is not going to be playing. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets removed from the game at some point and they put the third stringer in. Whoever the third stringer is right now, I don't know without looking it up, but I really don't think the Ravens


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Want the Bills in, they'll take the Steelers, they'll take their chances against Pittsburgh, even though I still believe that's dangerous if the Steelers are in the playoff field. The Bills are a better overall team right now. I think the Steelers win 20-10, Mason Rudolph to George Pickens, the Steelers


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fully engaged, fully motivated, fully determined, and in that standalone window on Saturday where...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They can't look at any of the other permutations because they won't happen until the next day. Alright.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Saturday night, we get to see CJ Stroud in the Houston Texans in prime time, taking on the Colts in Indianapolis, a rematch from a game played back in week two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This time around, the Texans are one point favorites on the road against the Colts. The Colts have been kind of hit or miss, up or down. You believe in them and they lose. You don't believe in them and they win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Texans with CJ Stroud are a different team. They went through a rough spot without him. He missed a couple of games due to a concussion. He's back. He's healthy. He's getting it done. They got it done in a major way against the Titans last weekend. Do the Texans go to Indy on Saturday night and beat the Colts?


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[Assistant] I got 20 to 17 Texans, and by the way, the winner of this game will make it to the playoffs. The loser is out, and the winner of this game will win the division if the Jaguars lose to the Titans.


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[Assistant] On Sunday, so winner in loser out. It's a perfect prime time game. We'll see which team can step up in a de facto playoff game. We both like Texans mainly because of the presence of CJ Stroud and and D'Amico Ryan's. I mean, this is kind of a


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[Assistant] Although Kevin Stefanski seems to have locked up coach of the year, this is kind of a showdown between Shane Stiken and D'Amico-Ryans to get on the ballot. Cause it goes three deep. The winner of this game gets on the ballot, the loser doesn't as a practical matter. Yeah.


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[Assistant] We thought the Texans had no chance of even sniffing the playoffs. What D'Amico Ryan's has done, impressive as well. Alright, we pivot to the Sunday games. Buccaneers at the Panthers. Baker Mayfield back in Carolina. David Tepper.


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[Assistant] Probably keeping a lid on his beverage this week. The Bucks are favored by 4.5 points. They will clinch the NFC South with a win. They are out if they lose. It is that simple for the Bucks. Win and you win the division. Lose and you go home. The Panthers are 2-14.


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[Assistant] Will the Bucks get the win? Will they cover the spread on Sunday, Chris?


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[Assistant] 24-7 Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I just have no faith in the Panthers at this point and the Buccaneers.


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[Assistant] I was disappointed by the showing that they had against the Saints, and I was impressed by New Orleans this past weekend. I feel like the Buccaneers, they've come this far, they've overachieved. Baker Mayfield has got the rib injury, wouldn't have practiced if they did practice on Wednesday. He'll find a way to get it together. As I said earlier today, unless there is some sort of a mishap with Dr. Needle,


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[Assistant] Baker Mayfield will be numbed up and good to go, and I think the Bucks get it done. Browns at the Bengals.


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[Assistant] The Bengals have said they're just trying to win. They want to finish, they want to finish above 500, right? They're 8 and 8, they can finish above 500. They're favored by 7, so Vegas knows the Bengals are going to try to go all in to win this thing.


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[Assistant] And, uh, the over under at 37 and a half, Chris, who do you like?


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[Assistant] I've got 24-10 Bengals. I think the Browns are treating this like an exhibition game. And if we see Miles Garrett or any of the other starting defensive players on the field, it won't be for long. It's all about going through the week of preparation because remember this isn't


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[Assistant] The one seed buy week where you'd get two weeks off and go three weeks between games, this is just kind of a reward for the Browns. A de facto buy as they gather and regroup for their visit to the AFC South champion in the wild card round.


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[Assistant] The moment that I saw Jeff Driscoll was playing instead of Joe Flacco, Bengals win. I got Bengals covering 24 to 10. Bengals are gonna go try to give it just one last push. I mean look at it, Joe Mixon, likely his last game ever with the Bengals. He's gonna go all out.


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[Assistant] Jake Browning, trying to maybe, you know, show others that at some point he deserves to be the week in and week out starter whenever his contract expires in Cincinnati. He'll go all out. You have other guys that just want to go out and have one good final game.


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[Assistant] To go into the off season not feeling as bad as they otherwise would for blowing their shot at the playoff. So I think they'll take care of the Browns because I just don't think the Browns care. Vikings at the Lions.


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[Assistant] I wasn't either, but now you have. 17-13. Alright, Vikings at the Lions. A rematch of a game played just a couple of weekends ago. The Vikings, despite four turnovers, from...


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[Assistant] Quarterback Nick Mullins is still where we're in position to potentially win the game. The Lions kind of salty and pissed off. Dan Campbell suggested earlier this week he's going all out. They're gonna go play to win. They can still get the two seed but they need the Cowboys to lose and the Eagles to lose. The Vikings have a path that isn't all that kooky to get to the playoffs but they'd have to beat the Lions.


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[Assistant] That's really the issue. And since it's the Vikings, I'll go first. I don't believe they can go to Detroit and beat the Lions.


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[Assistant] On Sunday night against the Packers, just feels like a team.


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[Assistant] That for whatever reason is done. They're just done. Whether they've checked out, whether the injuries have finally reached a critical mass and they just can't produce, they got steamrolled by the Packers when all the Vikings had to do was win the last two and they're in. Their spirit got broken at some point. They held it together as long as they could.


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[Assistant] Without Kirk Cousins. And we had the little surge of Josh Dobbs and then Dobbs


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[Assistant] Flamed out and Nick Mullins, but they didn't win a game with Mullins as a starter. And I just feel like.


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[Assistant] They've surrendered here. And really, what's the reward for making the playoffs? You go to Dallas and you get destroyed by the Cowboys in a standalone game, probably in prime time on Fox or late afternoon on Fox. Why do you want that? You don't.


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[Assistant] Lions win 27-20. I'm not saying the Vikings won't try. I just feel like the team that I saw last Sunday night is beaten and broken and ready for an extended break.


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[Assistant] And you know what, I hadn't thought of this until you mentioned that, but Teddy Bridgewater is the backup in Detroit. He was drafted by the Vikings in 2014. He has said he's gonna retire after this season. Give him a game.


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[Assistant] Let him go out because you never know when Jared Goff's gonna get hurt during the postseason. I think there's value for some of these teams like the 49ers playing Sam Darnold, the Ravens playing Tyler Huntley. Get these guys


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[Assistant] A little playing time. Get these guys some opportunity because you never know when a quarterback is going to get hurt during the playoffs. We've seen umpteen quarterbacks get injured in the regular season. Do we think they're all going to stay healthy in the playoffs? No.


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[Assistant] Alright, uh, Jets at Patriots could be Bill Belichick's final game. That's never happened before. I know. Where Pete just makes up a score and puts it down. Who do you think you are, Pete? Alright, uh, Jets at Patriots, Bill Belichick's possible final game over under is 30.5. What a barn burner they're expecting in Foxborough. Minus two are the Patriots, lowest over under the week. Let me start here. Yeah, go ahead.


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[Assistant] I, I, look, even if Bill Belichick will be back next year, he's gotta go into this game thinking it's his last game.


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[Assistant] The players are gonna go into the game thinking it's his last game. They have not given up. They have not quit.


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[Assistant] 24-10 is the score I have and it may be worse than that because the Jets are just kind of- They feel like they've done it quick. You saw it last week. They're done. It's over. It's done. Let's get healthy. Let's avoid an injury this week. Why are we going to go out and for the Patriots?


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[Assistant] This is kind of the culmination of 25 years, even though most of these players had nothing to do with it, most of these guys don't have Super Bowl rings, still, it's what it stands for, it's what it represents, and this is about, if Bill Belichick's leaving, let's do it the right way. I can't imagine. I can't imagine.


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[Assistant] Alright, Falcons and the Saints. Saints are favored by three. The winner will be the NFC South champion if Tampa Bay somehow loses at Carolina. The Saints can still make it if they win.


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[Assistant] And the Seahawks lose and the Packers lose. The loser is definitely out. Falcon Saints in New Orleans over under a 42 as I mentioned Saints favorite by three. Who do you like? Well,


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[Assistant] Well, we had been in lockstep every game so far in week 18. And remember, we are tied through 17 weeks.


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[Assistant] I've got the saints 30 to 23 and that fits with my idea that I've been saying for weeks now. The saints are just good enough.


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[Assistant] The domes are rockin'. Don't go a-knockin' if you're the Falcons. 30-23. Derek Carr and company hold it together for one last game, and it's not good enough to get into the postseason field. Alright, we wrap the one o'clock window with the Jaguars at the Titans.


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[Assistant] The Jaguars are favored by five. Trevor Lawrence was limited in practice on Wednesday with both the right shoulder and he popped up with a left finger injury. He wasn't on the injury report with a left finger last week and he didn't play.


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[Assistant] There's gotta be an interesting story to tell on how he injured his left finger. Was it an opening the bottle of champagne on New Year's Eve mishap?


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[Assistant] I don't know. We haven't gotten the explanation yet, but he does have a couple injuries, limited in practice. They need him back. Yes, they beat the Panthers with CJ Beathard.


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[Assistant] Tougher task beating the Titans without Trevor Lawrence. Will the Jaguars get it done? If they win, they are the AFC South Champion.


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[Assistant] 20 to 14, so I've got the Jags covering. Not that I'm gonna make up nine games this week. I don't think we're gonna disagree on nine spreads, but regardless. Jags 20 to 14. Remember last year these two teams met in a de facto playoff game on a Saturday night. Jaguars won. Jaguars win again. They win the division and off they go.


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[Assistant] Into the postseason, most likely hosting the Browns.


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[Assistant] Which may not go well for the Jaguars when it happens. Alright, the late afternoon games from Sunday. There's seven of them, I think. Six in the early window and seven in the late window, if I'm correct. And there's a chance I'm not. We'll take a look at all those when this joint production of Chris Sims on Button and PFTPM continues right after this.


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[Assistant] Don't forget on DraftKings Sportsbook this season, new customers can bet $5 and pocket $150 in bonus bets instantly, plus all customers can get a no sweat, same game parlay every day. Download the app and use the promo code PFTLIVE when you sign up.


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[Assistant] DraftKings Sportsbook, the crown is yours, but as I said earlier, please everyone, bet responsibly and only bet the money that you know you can afford.


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[Assistant] To lose, because if you listen to me, there's a damn good chance


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[Assistant] You will lose. Alright, let's get to the late afternoon games on Sunday. The Seahawks at the Cardinals. Seahawks favored by two and a half. They are in with a win and a Packers loss. They are out if they lose. They lost at home to Mason Rudolph and the Steelers on Sunday. The Cardinals look pretty damn good in Philadelphia, upending the Eagles.


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[Assistant] Chris, do you believe in the Seahawks or do you believe in the Cardinals? Which birds are you more inclined to have faith in this week?


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[Assistant] I mean, we really could do like a magic trick with this. I mean, suck it O's the mentalist. We share a brain some of the time. On this, we pick the upset, we pick the exact same score. Alright, Bears Packers, let's see if it holds for another one.


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[Assistant] Strong late in the year. Trying to do what Aaron Rodgers couldn't do last year. Win a home game in the final week of the season to get to the playoffs. The Packers are favored by three. The over-under is 44. Green Bay is in with a win. They could still get in with a loss if the Vikings lose, the Seahawks lose, and the Bucks or the Saints lose.


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[Assistant] Regardless, can the Packers get it done at home against the Bears?


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[Assistant] I just feel like the team that I saw last Sunday night, they're ready. They're primed. They didn't have Christian Watson. The defense was good enough. JR Alexander seems to be ready to go after his one week suspension for crashing the coin toss and almost screwing things up against the Panthers. I just feel like what happened last year.


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[Assistant] Losing at home, week 18. Right, I'll wake him up. With a chance to go to the playoffs, I feel like. And it's a great, it's a great opportunity for Jordan Love to distinguish himself.


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[Assistant] From Aaron Rodgers, and I guarantee you, I guarantee you, he's hearing that from somebody this week within the building. Whether from the coach, from the GM, all the way up to the CEO, Mark Murphy. Somebody is going to make sure Jordan Love understands.


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[Assistant] And maybe you don't even need to tell him. He was there. He saw it. He saw it happen. Rodgers couldn't get it done in a winning in, setting it home. Love has a chance to do it. And that would be a great for him way to distinguish himself from the guy who was the quarterback for all those years before. And then when I think they do it, I think they win the game.


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[Assistant] And you know, I, I know we didn't talk about it earlier today, but I was stunned by the fact that McAfee backtracked heavily on Wednesday. But still didn't own it.


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[Assistant] And I think that was smart because you're getting into some corporate


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[Assistant] High level palace intrigue if you take on Jimmy Kimmel and he realized he needed to back down.


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[Assistant] What will Rogers do? We'll find out next week. Alright, before that, the Chiefs and the Chargers will play. Patrick Mahomes not playing. Blaine Gabbard in. Chargers favored by three and a half. The Chiefs cannot move out of the number three seed. This is a true exhibition game for them. It means nothing. It is a bye week for them, which explains why the


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[Assistant] Chargers and interim coach Giff Smith are actually favored to beat the Chiefs over under of only 35. Who do you like in this one?


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[Assistant] Who the hell knows? Who the hell knows? And you've got 17-14. You know what I've got? I've got the Chargers scoring a touchdown when it's 17-14 and winning 21-17. If all else fails, the Chargers will be buoyed by their super fan who undoubtedly will be in the field level box doing everything she can to urge her Chargers on


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[Assistant] Chargers. Chargers. Chargers now. That's one of the strangest storylines of the entire season. Alright, Eagles at the Giants. They just played on Christmas Day. The Eagles are favored by five.


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[Assistant] The only interesting storyline here we mentioned earlier, Jared Stidham going back to Las Vegas.


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[Assistant] He has a chance to maybe become the starter next year for the Broncos once they move on from Russell Wilson, Antonio Pierce trying to stave off talk of Jim Harbaugh becoming coach of the Raiders. Raiders favored by three over under of 38. Who knows? Who cares? Give us a pick. Give us a score.


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[Assistant] That's a great point in a meaningless game. You have one coach who is definitely coming back next year. You have another coach that nobody knows.


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[Assistant] If you want to be part of the future, you better deliver in the present. This game means a lot to the Broncos. They want to finish on the right side of 500.


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[Assistant] And, uh, that's that for both of those teams this year. Eagles at the Giants, as I was starting to say earlier before you accurately reminded me I'd skipped over that game. The Eagles are favored by five. The over-under is 42. Philly clinches the division if they win and the Cowboys lose at the Commanders. Who do you like?


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[Assistant] Well, I got the same score without the last touchdown, well maybe, you never know. I've got the Giants not scoring that final touchdown, 27-17. It looked like the Eagles were going to blow them out on Christmas Day, and then the Giants made it interesting. The Eagles just, I think, if I'm Nick Sirianni,


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[Assistant] We've begun this process of getting back to what we were. Now let's get back there next week.


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[Assistant] Greater urgency there to win and to show themselves and everyone else but more importantly themselves that they're not the team.


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[Assistant] It's lost 4 out of 5, even though they are the team that's lost 4 out of 5. 27-17 Eagles. Rams at 49ers.


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[Assistant] The Rams are the sixth seed with a win or a Packers loss. The 49ers have the hay and the barn as the number one overall seed. Sam Darnold will play quarterback for them. Carson Wentz makes his debut as a starter for the Rams.


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[Assistant] The 49ers are favored by four. The over-under is 41. What do you think?


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[Assistant] Well, we picked the 49ers to win every week this year.


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[Assistant] I'm not sure that's... Pish Posh is a thing. Mish Mosh, I'm not sure, but I've learned. It's a Mish Mosh of things, I believe it is. I don't... Mish Mash, I think it's Mish Mash. I think it's Mish Mosh. Mish Mash. I don't know, we'll see. That's the thing, that's why I'm... that's why...


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[Assistant] Google says it's mishmash, but Google has been proven wrong on these in the past. There's that accidental scholar, or after we learned earlier today with the whole phone box thing, accidental Rhodes Scholar, because he's got it nailed in the UK, regardless. I've got the 49ers 28 to 21, and who the hell knows, who the hell cares, it's a meaningless game for both teams.


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[Assistant] I think that the starters for the 49ers will play long enough to build a lead that the 49ers backups will then hold. Alright.


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[Assistant] The last game in the afternoon window, the Cowboys at the commanders. Cowboys are favored by 13. They clinched the division with a win or Eagles loss and they will be the number two seed. Biggest spread of the week, 46 over under. Do the Cowboys go to FedEx field and close out the season?


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[Assistant] A win that delivers that number two seed and a path to the NFC Championship game.


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[Assistant] 38-21 for me, and we don't know if Jacobo Berset's gonna play, he's got the hamstring injury, he was gonna be the starter in place of Howell, and then he couldn't play, and then Howell played, and...


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[Assistant] You know, it's ending in Washington. Ron Rivera knows. Martin Mayhew surely knows.


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[Assistant] Jason Wright surely knows. New ownership, time to clean it out and bring in


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[Assistant] Whoever Josh Harris, Magic Johnson, and their partners choose to hire, but the Cowboys are playing for something, and I think they want to go into the postseason.


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[Assistant] Feeling a little more dominant than they did after that Lions game. So, uh, I, I think they'll put the, even though they're a different team away from home, you get them on grass. This is, this is just, this is a team that, that is really, really good against a team that is really, really mediocre. And, uh, that's it for the commanders and the Cowboys.


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[Assistant] Uhm, according to the folks at Merriam-Webster, it is mish-mash, not mish-mosh, but I do think pish-posh. I think that's where you got it twisted. Pish-posh is a thing, mish-mash is a thing, mish-mosh becomes a thing. I don't know where I got it.


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[Assistant] That's fine. That's fine. There is a mishmash eclectic eatery. There is a mishmash eclectic eatery. Maybe that's where it came from. Alright, we take a break.


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[Assistant] When we return, the only prime time game for Sunday and Monday, no Monday night game, a Sunday night game, the AFC East Championship between the Bills and the Dolphins. We'll discuss that next here on PFTPM and Chris Simpson.


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[Assistant] By the way, by the way. Go ahead, give it to me. Pete has done some research. Right. Pete's done some research. Flipping the bird.


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[Assistant] It seems to go all the way back to 19th century Britain when the phrase to give him the big bird was used in theatrical circles to refer to the act of hissing at somebody on stage. It was called giving the bird because hissing was supposed to be reminiscent of the hissing made by an angry goose. I still don't know how that leads to a middle finger.


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[Assistant] Cause geese don't give a middle finger, they hiss. This doesn't look like a goose. This doesn't look like a geese or a goose. I don't know. They've got webs though. They cut off you. If you see the webbed fingers and you peel a couple of them back, you're left with that.


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[Assistant] If we both do it at the same time, if we both do it at the same time, what would they do?


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[Assistant] Bills at Dolphins. Bills favored by three. AFC East Championship on the line. The Bills, if they lose, they'll know at kickoff. They could be completely out of it if they lose. They'll be the two seed if they win. Dolphins have a playoff berth. They'll be the two seed if they win. They'll be on the road as a wild card team if they don't. So.


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[Assistant] Who do you like? The Bills of the Dolphins. Bills won 48-20 back in week four. Long time ago. Couple of different teams. What happened in South Florida on Sunday night?


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[Assistant] You know, when I was doing the scores and thinking this through earlier, I put down Bill's 2820 and I'm starting to think that maybe I should go Dolphins. And when I started to think about Miami at home, in Miami,


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[Assistant] Trying to finish the job and win the division and get the two seed. I keep thinking 56 to 19.


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[Assistant] And that, that's, that's hard to come back from in one week. It is. And you throw in all the injuries, you throw in the Bradley Chubb injury, they have other guys banged up, Jalen Waddle still not practicing with the high ankle sprain, the Tyreek Hill fire at his house, that's a distraction. Would I texted you a little bit during the week?


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[Assistant] Resurgent, they bottomed out, they, they are playing loose.


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[Assistant] With no pressure, more pressure on the Dolphins. They already beat them 48-20 at home. 28-20 is my score. I'm sticking with it. Final answer, Buffalo Bills over the Dolphins on Sunday night. So we agree on all but two games this week, which means we'll split again and we'll be tied again going into the playoffs. Alright.


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[Assistant] Uh, let's take a break. When we return. It's time to figure out best bets in a week with plenty of teams who aren't playing to win. Also Folsom Prison Blues pick. That's next here on Chris Simms on Button.


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[Assistant] When this spoke earlier, we disagree on three games straight up this week, which means, barring a tie in one of those three games, we will not be tied at the end of the regular season. There will be a regular season champion. It will not be a push.


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[Assistant] So, and we were saying it's all gonna come down to a meaningless Chiefs Chargers game. That's gonna be the thing that decides who wins the...


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[Assistant] I'm taking the Steelers on Saturday just because I believe the Ravens are not focused, they're not engaged, they're not gonna have...


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[Assistant] Their starters, if they do, they're not going to play for very long. The Steelers trying to get into the playoffs, and I think at some level the Ravens understand strategically it's better for the Steelers to be in than the Bills to be in, in their opinion. So I'll take the Steelers, given the four, four and a half, whatever it may be.


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[Assistant] Patriots given two to the Jets in what could be Bill Belichick's last game ever with the Patriots. They haven't quit. They've played hard. The Jets have kind of just given up at this point. They've laid down the arms and I think the Patriots win this one easily. Two is way too, what else you got?


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[Assistant] I was torn between the Eagles giving the Giants 5 and the Bengals giving the Browns 7 because I don't think the Bengals really care about this game and I feel like the, or the Browns don't care about it, the Bengals do. I'm gonna go Eagles giving 5. They need to stabilize, they need to reestablish, they need this badly going into the playoffs with all this turmoil. So give me the Eagles, give me your fulsome.


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[Assistant] Well there was an all-timer, I don't think we ever, you know, recognized it. Right. There was an all-timer a couple weeks ago where you said a diamond in the haystack. And maybe you've said that before. Come on.


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[Assistant] Well it's one of those where it's very clear what you mean, and I think it might be even better. Why is there a needle in the haystack?


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[Assistant] Is he going around where I think he should go or are they too low?


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[Assistant] Uh, and you just looked at a couple here, but let's just take a look back because I like these podcasts to also be a state of the league, a state of the position, and kind of what we saw, we saw last year too. UT Madden says, when evaluating tight ends, how do you factor in the lack of focus that college offenses typically have?


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[Assistant] I had some injuries last year, wasn't as big a part of the offense maybe as we thought in Buffalo, but Sam Laporta, you were higher on him than almost everyone else out there. You loved what you saw at Iowa, even though it is tight end university, it wasn't like he was catching a thousand, you know, yards. No, no, he's the perfect example.


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[Assistant] So what happened with, with Kyle Pitts too? Because that was the, last year had a good deep class, but like Kyle Pitts was supposed to be the generational talent. I think we called him that. Specifically him, and it's a unique case, I don't want to make this like it's a theme of tight ends, but he came out, when he came out, he kind of had the similar hype of


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[Assistant] Brock Bowers, who we're about to talk about here, as like a guy who can change the game. What happened there?


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[Assistant] Hundreds of thousands of dollars to change this number with Kirk Cousins. Both of them said screw it. We'll just keep what we got going on here. Kirk Cousins, 18 for the Atlanta Falcons this year, I believe. Alright, so let's get into, let's get into the tight end. The tight end, I say. And you did look at one other tight end here too that we'll talk about in a second. But, uh, you did not rank this.


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[Assistant] By consensus, this is the number one tight end in the 2024 draft class by everyone else except for Chris Sims because we're not specifically doing that for tight end right now.


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[Assistant] Brock Bowers, you, you dove into the tape. You looked at, you looked at all his plays here. He's a 21 year old, turns 22 in December. Has been on the radar as the number one tight end basically for a year and a half now.


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[Assistant] Definitely. Heard a bit last year. Yeah. Uhm, but, uh, but what'd you see? What'd the tape tell you about the number one tight end out there?


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[Assistant] So let's look at it. You said he's not Gronk, and there was this picture around the NFL Combine of the two standing together, and so, I don't know, Kristen, if we have it back there, and who is in graphics today, we got Gabby and...


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[Assistant] Uhm, Morgan, Mackenzie, Morgan and Wyatt back there. Okay. Everyone back in the back room has produced this picture. So it was, it was Brock Bauer standing next to Grok. And this, this alarmed people. Because not only did Brock look a little smaller than Grok, he also looked like a fifth year engineering student. A little bit.


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[Assistant] Okay, so the mom was like, hey, quit ripping on my kid. He's not an engineering student, although he is smart and he probably could have done that if he wanted to. Uh, he, he can stack up to Gronk. He's not as tall. I mean, the, the measurables are this. He is in the 12th percentile for weight. He is in the 23rd percentile among tight ends for height.


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[Assistant] And, you know, Georgia did use him almost like a slot receiver at times, like quick screens. Slot, H-back, right? Yea, a little bit of all of it. So he's not the biggest tan that's out here.


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[Assistant] The epitome of, if you want to watch a highlight of him, the epitome of that is late in the game, fourth quarter, I think it was a tie game versus Auburn, uh, he makes a one-handed catch. Down the middle. Yes, he's breaking tackles and then breaks away for the touchdown.


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[Assistant] So he missed the last four games with that ankle injury, had tightrope surgery to return at the end of the year, did not work out at the combine.


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[Assistant] Uh, and uh, Georgia Pro Day is today. So we're going to learn a little bit more about uh, his.


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[Assistant] Brock Bowers could help that and give you some additional pass catching ability.


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[Assistant] More so that. I mean, they really do need to protect the quarterback there. If you're the Jets, what do you think?


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[Assistant] Lee Isen, right? Yep, Lee Isen. Good question, Lee. So where does Brock Bowers want to go?


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[Assistant] Uh, so we have an interview. This is, uh, with you guys. Yeah. Radio Row. Yeah. Super Bowl. Us guys. PFT. You and Mike. Uh, I haven't heard this yet. I did. Let's, let's hear, you were there. Yeah. Let's hear what he said.


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[Assistant] Pete is so mad you didn't make an argument for the Giants right there, uhm, to make him a top six pick. Seriously, seriously, I'm disappointed in myself.


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[Assistant] It's not going to happen in Nashville. Simply Believe 39 wants to know, this is a good question. Where would you have Bowers ranked against the wide receivers when looking at pass catchers altogether? So your top five wide receivers, I think we have that again.


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[Assistant] To refresh your memory, and I know you were there when you did this. Yup. Uhm, so you probably already remember. I was there. So here they are, Malik Neighbors, Brian Thomason, you got Marvin Harrison, Roman Madunze, Roman Wilson. Would he crack your top five?


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[Assistant] I have a question for you. Nicholas Belfort, actually he has the question for you. Is Bowers too good to pass up at 15 for the Colts over a Quinian Mitchell or a Dallas Turner? I mean Turner probably won't be there.


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[Assistant] Anything else you want to say, add about him here? No, I think that's about it. He lives up to the bill. I was curious about that. I'm always wary when we've been hearing about a guy for this long that the hype becomes bigger than the play or the film, but he lived up to the hype.


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[Assistant] Alright, so that was the consensus number one tight end in Brock Bowers. You also looked at the number two consensus, or by a lot of guys out there. Uh, Jatavian Sanders, I think he is projected to go in the second round here. 21 years old, uh, just turned that recently. 6'4", 245, was a five-star recruit.


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[Assistant] Also played wide receiver, was an all district defensive end in high school too. In fact, when he went to Texas, he practiced on offense and defense. So they were like, this guy is a, is a beast that can play, play anywhere. When you looked at the tape of Jatavian Sanders, what did it tell you?


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[Assistant] And I wrote it as, braces for contact does not seek contact. There you go.


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[Assistant] That's starking. That's a new word. I think it's just stark, yeaah. We add that.