[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it just became this like, it's like watching beta fish, how they're just floating and then there's this like flurry and then out kind of thing. But they're not this far away, which you see in like a UFC fight where they're like forever far away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We watched the Johanna vs Wiley.


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[Assistant] UFC is super hardcore about not letting this stuff be on YouTube and so people find all different ways of keeping it up.


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[Assistant] They make it backwards or whatever the thing is. We saw a zoomed in version that actually made it so that you could only watch it according to the space that was between them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, it's not how I watch a fight in general, and I was kind of like, I can't see a lot of what's happening, but I watch this space between fighters when I watch Muay Thai. What was interesting about it to me, or this thing, is that by and large, you could not watch a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 90% of UFC fights because they would both be out of frame.


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[Assistant] That was considered one of the best fights in, everyone was talking about this, one of the best fights in UFC history, male or female.


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[Assistant] This was like Muay Thai fight range, where you could watch the space between them, otherwise they would literally be off.


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[Assistant] As a like, recovery thing, they understand on a physical level, in a really strong way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What people don't understand is that your mind follows that like peak experience, pulling down experience. And people do not train the mental part of that physical


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like cardio for your brain in an interesting way. Uhm, but I think that because people like to separate things.


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[Assistant] And I think especially in the West because we're always looking for these hacks or like, I'm gonna do hit drills instead of a long run because a fight is actually...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a physical thing that you can look on your watch and you're like, my VO2 max has gone up. But there is a mental emotional side to it that happens in the same ranges, which is like, you can, you can take someone who is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A mathematician, like someone who math they could do in their sleep, and you put them on Everest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you have to teach yourself to under that serious duress.


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[Assistant] I think that this is something that's actually really, really tricky. Uhm, maybe especially in the West. Because...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is not, this is not the fault of anybody. But gyms in the West survive on membership.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is why some gyms will implement like a grading system.


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[Assistant] That's like, we want to retain our customers, we want them to feel like they're getting somewhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know you're getting somewhere because you're fighting, like you're...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sparring that's gonna make your customers not want to come back, that's gonna intimidate them, like any of these things. And so this like, ties are all light sparring that the West tells themselves, we're imitating ties by going super light.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's actually not how a lot of ties spark. It is and isn't. It's a part of the picture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, difficult to recreate in the West because of our attitudes and cultural interpretations and things like this is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Thailand, even if you're not going super hard, the dominance is real.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the West, there's this like, you're a fucking asshole, and I don't want to spar with you anymore, and uh, when someone is dominating you, there's often this kind of like, jerk edge on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sparring is too hard and I don't wanna do it anymore, I'm gonna opt out. You're, you're trying to keep people happy. Whereas, in a Thai gym, there will be people going home super actually humiliated and feeling bad and they just have to come back the next day and do it again kind of thing. Is it, when we're talking about heart rate,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And pressure and panic and all of these real emotions that are very uncomfortable to plug into your training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ut-at, which means like uncomfortable and it, it kind of, uhm, isn't quite necessarily the way that we think of uncomfortable. It's also, uhm, like constipated. You're like stuck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so like if someone, if you see someone fighting and you're like, it means that they were like slow and kind of like they couldn't get their like, they couldn't get out of their gear, like they were with the handbrake on or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was expressing to him how I was frustrated, uhm, by, like, that my state coming out of our sparring together was frustrated. And I said to him, cause he's like, it's okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I said to him, I'm like, there are no yodemoi when you watch from the golden age, no matter how


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Difficult their fight was, someone much bigger than them, someone who was kicking their ass, like no matter how much of a blowout,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A fight can be, not one yodmoy looks utat in their fight.


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[Assistant] Because even under real domination, real humiliation, real fatigue, some of these guys got very tired in fights and could still string their words together. It's missing this element that a lot of us allow ourselves to stay in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, or it's uncomfortable to be in that deepest breath, so it's like, I don't feel good today, I'm not gonna do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is why the example of the lungs is actually poetic, rather than just being a like, yeah, we know how lungs work, is that when you panic, if you shallow breathe, you don't


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, it'd be like, it'd be like if you had two people who all things being equal, all skills being equal, fitness being equal, size being equal, but you put glasses that are not correct for that person and they're just slightly blurred.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What difference is that? That makes a huge difference. Not in a like, Bruce Lee, I can do this blind kind of way, but literally you can't see.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's like a, it's, it's not quite, not necessarily only a memorized combination, but also kind of a muscle memory thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, so if someone starts everything with a jab and you can snuff their jab, they have nothing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and this was, you kind of, uhm, got a little bit of this idea from Chicken Man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, but you were like, I know that's true because I thought about it, and that was that Chicken Man is a trainer at my gym, Petring Ring and Patia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, crew guy, he's in the Muay Thai library, and he was talking about another fighter at our gym who, when he's training, has fucking awesome hands, like when he's boxing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He knew why he doesn't do in fights what he does when he trains and he said he doesn't punch from here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is, you punch from here, but you guard from here, you're an on or off switch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very mundane example is I yell at people in my gym, westerners who come and are learning clinch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone clinches like this, and I'm like, don't walk around with your hands like this to enter the clinch, because in a fight you're gonna be coming to enter the clinch like this. So, if you shadow box like this, this is how you should be entering the clinch, because that's how you are in a fight. You're starting from a completely different spot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tension, like emotional tension or like being afraid of someone or something like this and you, you have to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, put yourself in those literal body positions but also those kind of emotional states or at least the body position that the emotional state puts you in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that the way that we learn, and by we, I mean 90% of us


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the West, and maybe even in Thailand too, but because in Thailand they fight so much it kinda wears itself out. Uhm, is that we really do not train.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With the idea that there's ever someone else involved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whereas, a perfect example is Karahat in His Eyes Are Just Incredible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which people will do. When your body is this shape, all these things are open.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A constant almost computer calculation of all possibilities whenever this one digit is in that slot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Imagine you have like a combination lock and all the tumblers have to go into this set in order to be able to unlock the thing and pull it out, right? If the tumblers aren't in the right positions, it's locked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Out of a billion combinations, they're all locked except for all of them being in place. Yes. And you're like, okay, like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At some point I'm gonna have to block, at some point I'm gonna have to whatever. If they kick me I'll block. Nobody's thinking, what position do they have to be in for them to kick me? For me to have to block.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of people are like, after I've jabbed, then I can throw this other thing, like as a memorized combination, but nobody thinks when I jab, if they don't do...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I think they're gonna do, which is cover or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Carhat spends so much time on me being like, pretend to punch the body, but really punch up here. In this like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which people aren't aware of, like you have habits and you might not even know it.


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[Assistant] And it wasn't even the best decision because they're both southpaws so he's hitting closed side the whole time but it was still, you have been given one path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then shape your various stacks on purpose.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and the way that fighters get you into that state can be quite different. I have all these very visceral memories of filming for the library where...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My, the person teaching me is actually very complimentary. They're like, oh, you have these skills, you're very good at this, they feel my need. They're like, oh, that's great, all this stuff. It's like all, it's all like pumped up, like yeah, I've, I'm pretty good, I'm in like a nice state of knowledge. And then they're like, let's spar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, or it's like you, you have a conversation with someone in English and you're like, their English is so good, they're fluent, let's go watch the news, and they're like, I have no idea what was just said. Totally. Like, that's crazy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the reason I disagree with you is because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the Muay Thai that I love, the fighters that I love watching, like what we're trying to preserve, yes, that is no longer in Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This will segue into another section that we have, actually. But, it's also, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You ask people now who is the best, like who's Yodemoi now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is that if you were champion or you were yodemoi, you were champion or yodemoi against other champion yodemoi. Like you were the best among-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the, the interpretation under which I agree with you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you look at that as a movement in the way that you look at punk as a movement or hip hop as a movement and people can say punk is dead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rap is dead. Hip-hop is dead. That's very true in looking at how pure and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Amazing the movement was, and then this imitation of it now. You're not gonna like, get someone who was, uh, you know, into, I don't know, the clash or something to be like, oh yeah, Blink 182 is the same thing. Like it's not. The fighters now are not cut of the same cloth from the Golden Age as a movement. The way in which I don't agree with you is like, if you were to have an argument of like, the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Poetry of language or like vocabulary in which, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 100 years ago, people were writing letters, like the fucking letters of Moby Dick or something. We don't talk like that anymore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reasonably makes sense. Namkabun is teaching amazing body throws that he was adroit at, that are beautiful, that actually would work incredibly well for one of our fighters because of his strength.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To me, the thing that I'm like, why the fuck is this not sticking? Is that-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nowadays they will not train the way that they used to train. That's what I'm talking about. The points that were made by...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's kinda like if David Goggins were like 40 years ago, everyone was like him. And now you're like-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not sustainable yet. It's not even reached.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're talking about fighters, Hippie, Diesel Noy coming in and being like, this is not how this is done. You need to like amp this up. You also mentioned Adan Gimiu. Gimiu was a trainer of Golden Age fighters. He has been a trainer for forever. He was one of the most sought after trainers in the Golden Age.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And crea- and enforced it. Ask PNU to tell stories about when he-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Today's gonna be rough. He watches me.


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[Assistant] And I train hard, harder than a lot of people, but not golden age. But even just the steps I make that are these kyan that are like, I'm still shadow boxing with weights when other people have gone home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Taking what he said to me and breaking it into a piece and working on it and like, have focus rather than like, just get through the day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He will turn to you all the time and just be like, if she were a man, or if she were younger, or if she did this for ten years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I agree with you that what made


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is, this is something that's difficult for me in disagreeing with you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that what first drew me to Muay Thai was this ethic.


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[Assistant] Sometimes when I watch fights that have very different scoring from time away time, I honestly just don't even know what I'm looking at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I understand and appreciate and agree with this idea that Muay Thai and its ethic are not separable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I look at an incredible fight from now, like that, uh, Satan Wun Lek elbow fight that won fight of the year last year,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would wanna know, out of curiosity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because we look at the best of the best. Like we look at Yodmoy. If you were looking at like kind of an average gym back in the day, like, what was their training like? What did that look like?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rambah comes closer than a lot of other people in terms of how he trains his kids, just in the intensity and his like, attitude. He at least reaches towards it in a way that a lot of gyms don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's not going to produce the fighters that came out of his time, even.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Through reaching towards that kind of training, but his kids are very fucking hard little


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It grew out of an organic... Listening to Diesel Noi talk about Witch Noi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Diesel Noi loves Witch Noi. Not only did he fight him three times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's very charming, very cool, like you get this like old Hollywood feel off of him, but Diesel Noy is an incredibly sweet, dignified, like has a lot of honor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of that being said, it was still jaw-dropping when Wichanoi walked in. We were sitting at this table and we were waiting for Wichanoi to show up. Wichanoi walked in and he looks like nobody. He's wearing like a Hawaiian shirt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jumped from his seat and went over and went, bowed his head to Wichinoi's feet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was like a 12 year old all of a sudden and diesel noise not really liked that. Like, it was really incredible. But.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is the story of, we started thinking to ourselves in hearing, hearing Diesel Noi talk about Witch Noi, we're like, God, who do the best Muay Thai fighters think are the best Muay Thai fighters?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you see a lot of English language, top 10, top 5.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Deesonoy or Karahat, you're like, who did you look up to when you were coming up?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're anticipating names you've never heard of, because we don't even stretch back that far, like we don't, the people that we know is just a sliver.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, and surprisingly, or maybe not surprisingly, I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when he wasn't, people gave a reason why. Like, crew Thailand was like, uhm, I wanna only list people that I actually saw and knew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reason that's surprising is that a lot of, a lot of the lists you can see go in order of kind of an age. Uhm, and to have Chumok Pet who's quite young,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He changed his style, like as he aged. He'd fought for a very long time and he fought up. All the time. Yup. Chumokpet. Small.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To put this in perspective, Wichinoi is known as the eternal...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yodmoy, because he just fought forever, like he-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Diesel Noi is like, Diesel Noi and Samart are on the older end of Golden Age. Like, they're kind of the seniors of Golden Age. Diesel Noi said to me, I, he said, Wichita Noi was champion before I was born.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's also, again, talking about the difference between modern Muay Thai, contemporary Muay Thai, and golden age Muay Thai. The golden age...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Real, you can't prepare for this, you just have to use your own wits and like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's bad against teepers. He's a teeper so he can't really go forward very well. Like they have these huge holes that then the promoters just don't put them against those people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a, there's a fighter who is like as close to being named Yodmoy Fighter of the Year as can be, uh, Gulabdam, who is a puncher.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More times than I can count. And these are very exciting fights. People put a lot of money on them. But when I was talking to, uh, Krunu, he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, they just don't put Gulabdam against people who he would have trouble with. They just don't put him against a teaper. They just don't put him against a near. They put him against an elbow guy because it's gonna be this like clashing thing and it will be exciting. And they didn't have that as much.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Diesel Noi has been, when he's like weighing who's gonna be higher on a list or who was amazing or not, he's like, mm, they couldn't fight up or like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Occasionally, not even occasionally, usually you'll get a fighter who near the end of their career they start losing. We asked Adichai what it was like when he beat Namkabun and he's like, Namkabun was already old. Like, he gave, he gave the excuse for Namkabun of like, if he had been in his prime I wouldn't have been able to beat him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When Namkabun fought Hippie, he was much bigger than Hippie, Hippie was much older, but Namkabun was on the way up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Specification of what he's doing for modern Muay Thai. It was not like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It gives a greater sense of urgency, urgency, I think, to what we're doing, cause like, there are...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very, very good fighters who get a lot of acknowledgement and it's completely, uh, deserved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But when we started publishing these top five lists and people were like, god damn, which annoy is on top of everyone's list? I'm going to go look them up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And people were writing to us and they're like, I've been watching Wichita Oil Day, which is maybe a couple of hours of your day because there's not a lot of footage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Muay Thai Scholar is an incredible editor. He makes really good videos, but he can only make really good videos of people who have a lot of tape. You can't make an incredible video of Diesel Noi. He made one, and it's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kevin was actually just going through these, uh, the older ones that didn't used to be on Patreon?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The YouTube version's free for everybody. Anyone can watch this, but our ability to do this and our ability to do everything and to talk about all the things we talk about is made possible through Patreon support. Uhm, so thank you to our patrons for in a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Beautiful way supporting everything that we do and making it so that we can make free content like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but he was going through our, uh, much older...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the way that I fight, the way that I train, the way that we're creating the library, archiving, doing interviews with Legends now, uhm, translating, we're, we're trying to gather


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something about Muay Thai that is both present and disappearing, like we, we have this preserve the legacy which really extends beyond the library, uhm, it's, it's in the context that we have and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, supporting these legends in the way that we can and interviewing them and giving voice and things like this is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People get really into them because they're like, I love that you can just go in all these different directions with Muay Thai, and for us that's not...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unusual. For us, we feel like Muay Thai really does touch everywhere. Like it, it truly is. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Endless in terms of what you can think about or talk about and, and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Us talking about it and people getting into it, I think that, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is, I don't know, this is maybe not quite on topic, but definitely not off topic, is... I fucking love diesel noise so much.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Diesel Noi has just this incredible life. Like, he wrote his, he had help writing his autobiography that we're trying to help him get published. We actually don't even know how much is in there because it's in Thai, it hasn't been translated yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kevin was referencing earlier his, uh, manager threatening to shoot him in the corner of his fight against Samart because he wasn't trying to knock him out. Uh, he was there in the Chmokepet versus Longswan fight where the head of the hop-along gym was murdered in the corner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I think I'm trying to get at here is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Diesel Noy seemingly had this amazing career where he was undefeated, nobody would fight him, and so he was forced into retirement and stripped of the belt, and now he's just this like, very loved figure in Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When people say in a semi-poetic way, if I didn't have Muay Thai, I wouldn't have anything. Like, Muay Thai is my life. Muay Thai is my life. Muay Thai is our life. Like, what the fuck else do we do? Muay Thai is very big to us. You're gonna make-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Muay Thai is diesel noise life. To the point where he was like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he couldn't fight anymore was thinking of just fucking checking out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At your back, breathing on your neck while you're deciding whether you're gonna do that last round on the bag when everyone else has gone home. This was his reality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And diso-noi is exceptional in every single way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It ripples out to what Muay Thai means for these men who were trying to preserve and their technique that were trying to preserve even


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's got these bookends of like his father who founded the gym and his youngest son who probably won't go into Muay Thai. And he's like this, he's along this lineage of as Muay Thai is kind of diluting, both in technique, in how it's taught, and in importance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He says all the time, he's like, if I didn't have Muay Thai, I would have nothing. Like Muay Thai has been my entire life. He grew up on a farm, working the farm and doing Muay Thai at the same time. And now he has a much better financial situation than when he was a kid raising his sons. And like, uhm, Muay Thai is more of a business than when he was a kid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When people say, talking about in Thailand, that Muay Thai is a way of life,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not only a way of life, it is life. It is every part of someone like Diesel Noy's life. Uhm, there are these yodmoy now who


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Muay Thai is much smaller than it actually is. I think that we underestimate how vast Muay Thai is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's, it's not possible to preserve all of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the way that some of the most amazing fighters that ever were are just touching the corner fabric of Muay Thai anymore and it's their one little way to maintain themselves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're new to Muay Thai Bones, this podcast is this epic Muay Thai podcast where we talk about everything Muay Thai, but is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was done in the car, like our first 8th or 12th, yes. When we're driving across Thailand, uh, everything is a little bit still. Not able to drive across Thailand because of COVID, so we've been doing it from our apartment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We look forward to when we can get back to the car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and so, if you're new to us, as a patron, this is gonna be, all the video is on YouTube for everybody, but patrons get to have the audio version of this so they can run it through their subscription services.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally. But as a bonus to our Patreon supporters, our Patreon supporters are those that make this possible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally. So, uh, we're just gonna dive right in to something deep, which is what we normally do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you don't love what we're talking about, just skip ahead 20-30 minutes and you'll be on to some other part of Muay Thai. But I think this session is, this, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow, this, no, this whole, this whole Muay Thai Bones podcast this time is going to be a lot about your process, the process you're in, looking over some of the subjects we have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If it wasn't the last, it was the one before, I remember when we were on the balcony, I think when we started talking about 3.0.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sylvie 3.0, maybe fill people in with Sylvie 3.0, we're not gonna go into real depth of this, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, and we decided you're not maybe fighting for a year. So instead of like every month, is it fight time?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, to not make yourself dependent on something you have no control over. We're just like, fuck fights for a year. If they come, whatever. But instead we're starting this reconstruction, deconstruction, reconstruction process.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, what we, our first subject is gonna be sparring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well let's go back, I want to go back for a moment for people who follow you, back to America when you trained almost exclusively, uhm, with Master K, 70 plus, your old Thai man who had some cultural


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I remember we signed up for you to fight your first fight in Virginia, and we're like, uh, you basically have not ever sparred.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things with you, but it was not live. Not going live. And I remember before we signed, you basically fought your first fight with having sparred like three times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we, one time we went, or a couple of times we went down to the Watt in, uhm, New York to get some taste of actual sparring. So, getting Sylvie sparring has been on the menu from the very first fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is incredible! So, I don't know, we don't really need to go into all the like, hiccups with trying to get sparring your size, your gender, your shyness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally. And so we want to talk about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why ten rounds? Like why dive so deep into it? What is it addressing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's been missing for you? Our little bit, our thoughts about growing eyes? Like, uh, what has it been like?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the sake of understanding the ties, the ties are looking at an adult fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of ties that have been raised sparring as kids. So you, you get your sparring in as kids early.


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[Assistant] So when they're dealing with an adult fighter, they are already assuming you have many of the, what I like to call the connective tissue, that comes from having been raised in Muay Thai. But you started Muay Thai when you were 24.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A big part of what we, what you've tried to pursue in sparring, which has been very hard for you to get, is to build that connective tissue that ties get when they're 9, 10, 11, 12.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This doesn't make sense. So Ratai, you fought, you rest, you charge your battery up, you get back in the ring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think this has been exacerbated by the fact that you're very small and once you started getting strong in a moe cow style you started fighting bigger and bigger and bigger girls.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Limits what you can do and also limits how playful you can be. Like, you're basically, when you get in the ring, you're opposite somebody who can fucking rip you with a kick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, it tends to produce tension.


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[Assistant] In you and a very defensive, fortified body concept.


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[Assistant] So, not getting sparring for lots of reasons.


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[Assistant] Not comfortable, the feeling of sparring didn't feel good or was not fun. Ever.


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[Assistant] And so you pulled away from it, and then when you fought and you fought and fought and fought, you were fucking fighting giants, which made a more fortified sense. Which is really kind of, so we finally, we've talked about it in other Muay Thai Bones podcasts, but we've talked about the urge, the desire to grow eyes.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well, this is my own perspective, but a lot of male fighters, western male fighters,


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[Assistant] And most female fighters, in my opinion.


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[Assistant] And even some Thai- and Thai female fighters also.


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[Assistant] There is a thing, there is the fighting zone, the pocket. What people do is they learn combinations to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hold their breath and throw their combination to cross the fighting zone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They basically bite down and leap. They're not seeing what's unfolding in the fighting zone. They're, they've practiced a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In training, very rigorously, a kind of like, one, two, three, and whatever your combination is, you might have two or three combinations, but you're like, I'm just, you could do it with your eyes closed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you do it to cross the fighting zone. It's a way of kind of like uhm...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like that's the context of a lot of female fighting and even male fighting too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being around such great fighters in Thailand, what's clear is that the Yod Mui, like the ones that we train with, like, uh, Kara Haat, Isil Mui, they had amazing eyes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you can see this anytime you want to turn on a Tai fight of, uh, San Chai versus any Westerner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One person can see the lights are on in the room for one person and they're off for the other person. The other person might be highly skilled, highly developed as a fighter, like very experienced, tough, well trained. If the lights are off, the tension goes up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 3.0, a big part of 3.0 is... Okay, well, let me just say this. First of all, you've been blessed and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More experientially cursed with the fact you cannot throw a combination.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is one of the best things, I think is one of the best things in the world. Because it means you couldn't fake fluency.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You just would not get to the point where you'd be like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Left, right, low kick. Left, right, low kick. Hook, low kick. Like these memorized things that allow one to kind of like fake your way through the fighting zone. Instead, you develop a Moikau armored style


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that you could get into the clinch and destroy the clinch. It served you really well. You beat really big opponents, world champions, people that normally should be able to control you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But because you didn't have the crutch of a combination. Moi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now adding eyes is really, really cool because it is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The ability, there's very few people who have been training in Muay Thai for 8 years, and with 200 plus fights, 250 plus fights, and now suddenly you can level up a huge jump.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of it is just acclimating. This is one reason why we committed to 10 rounds of sparring minimum.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We just have to trust that the body is going to absorb information and figure out what's going on just through acclimation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm always returning in my mind to David Goggins' Navy SEALs training, where he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For some reason, being in the cold surf, the water, where hypothermia is right there at the edge, and everybody wants to get out of the fucking cold water, and he's like, I'm gonna break my sergeant's mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By loving this, like I do not want to get out.


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[Assistant] There's a thing that when the body just isn't waiting


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[Assistant] To get out. It's not looking at its watch like 15 more minutes, 13 more minutes counting down. When you're just like, I'm just sparring all day today.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he's like bouncing off the cage.


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[Assistant] But you're not, but you're not trying to do it. That's the other thing that's so cool about this is by immersing yourself in it, hardcore, just like, there's no end to the rounds that you're going to be, like, you did 15 rounds today.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Suddenly you just give in. It's like an ultra runner who gives into fatigue. And you're like, I'm just gonna be unbelievably tired.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Suddenly your stress levels go down. Like there's things that you don't really even have control over.


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[Assistant] And I don't know that somebody who's a year into Muay Thai would benefit from 10 rounds of sparring, like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Every day. Maybe it would be difficult. Maybe you don't have the defense enough to protect your head, and you could risk head trauma, like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not, we're not saying to recommend this to someone else. It's just like, in Sylvie's path, which is like, been pretty incredible, like, it's unparalleled.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is a whole chunk, there is an undiscovered continent.


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[Assistant] That has been basically just unmapped.


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[Assistant] That other fighters spend a lot of time sparring. It's not unmapped for them. For you, it's unmapped. And it's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you did do sparring occasionally, but it was always like, with the emergency brake on, like when is this over?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's been exhausting, right? One of the unexpected things is how you come home and it's like, I'd rather have been lifting weights for seven hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, you're getting fried a little bit, but part of that is just the acclimation.


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[Assistant] I'm, I'm, I call back to this thing, beautiful thing, I think you wrote it, rather than blogged it, about getting your sake on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was just like, the pain, pain is the teacher, and the pain of that Sakyant on the back, and Arjan P, who's your Sakyant master, uhm, when he starts feeling you feel the pain, he starts digging in with the needle more, he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pounding, pounding, pounding. He's trying to get you to let go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, I think you wrote it in that blog post, I'm gonna try to link it, but it was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have to accept that this pain will never, might not stop. It's not like, uh, 15 more minutes and he's gonna take a break. No, this pain might not ever stop. Which is really the Buddhist message that life is suffering, right? And there's this thing about throwing yourself into sparring, it's like, sparring might not stop. Might not ever stop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, so we're like, let's do a year of this, it might not stop. In ten days, it's been pretty fucking incredible. The changes that have happened to you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who knows, it might now become incremental improvements, or you might regress and then go forward. You cannot tell what it is. But the idea is, as long as our training remains stable, to just keep


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Climbing in this thing and this feeling of just like giving into it might not ever stop.


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[Assistant] Dimension of that that could be very freeing. And there's a few things in your training that's like this to me. I remember when we were in, uhm, Fort Montgomery in New York.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you were taking lessons with Master K, we'd drive for an hour and go take a lesson and we were like, you need more work and we bought a heavy bag for the, the spare bedroom that was in our little cottage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was hard for you to work on the bag. And I remember us talking about it and thinking about it. It's like, you cannot become a great fighter without loving bag work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You've got to fucking love it. Not be good at it or endure it.


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[Assistant] At some point you have to fucking like, I want bag work.


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[Assistant] And at the time you were like, uuuh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but you know what? You, it took many years I think, but it took so much bag work in Thailand that you finally just totally overcame that hill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like if you had to do 20 rounds of bag work, you could do 20 rounds of bag work without it being a fucking problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally. And that's a big part of it is eventually getting to the point where you can play. You like being in control of your training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You seem like you're getting stressed by bringing it up. Well, I think that's the point in sparring is to just submit yourself to it so extensively that suddenly the stress levels are down to a point where you can start doing what you want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, the next segment is also having to do with sparring. And it's a special thing that we've been doing. You've been sparring with Yokunpon six days a week.


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[Assistant] First of all, who's Yoke Compound if no one doesn't follow what's going on?


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[Assistant] Yeaah, he brings, he brings to sparring real fight energy. It's pretty intense and incredible.


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[Assistant] He's an incredible teacher, but we don't want that to be the experience.


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[Assistant] What does heavy shit mean? Like it's like shorthand for something. Like your feelings about violence or your shame as a fighter or-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's that point that you're below the surface and you're like, if I don't get to the surface in like 5, 10 seconds, I'm in serious trouble.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's a little bit how his style is, is that he has this like suffocating, like I've, I remember Machito, the, uh, BJJ guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His pressure style is a little bit like that. It's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a suffocating style where he's like clinch grabbing on your neck and pulling and clawing and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if you can stand on that rock, you can stand anywhere. That's the key that you are acclimating yourself to and that's so special about him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I've done some film studies of their sparring. You can look on Sylvie's YouTube that will capture some of what we're talking about. This like in-fighting space of suffocating and pulling yourself out of it to catch a breath and going back in. He is trying to teach you to acclimate yourself to his like particular


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's not a, he's not a Thai trainer who's like


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[Assistant] And this is the other beautiful thing, just to stay on him and sparring with him. He also turns up the heat. As soon as you get acclimated, he makes it hotter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But unfortunately, you don't really get to like, run a victory lap.


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[Assistant] You know, like, oh I've mastered the blah blah blah, so this is an easy session. Every session, he is turning up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the control. You control the space in front of your opponent.


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[Assistant] And so, he feels like that's what he's teaching you. He's like, if you can control the space in front of your opponent,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like, I remember him saying today in English, this is very important. And this is what all the combo fighters do not do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The combo fighters start outside the space, and then...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Leap in with a bop bop bop, bop bop bop, leap out or pivot out or whatever it is, take a break, take a break, take a break. He is like, and if you watch the Golden Age fighters, this is where, why Golden Age fighting is so awesome, is they're both in the fucking space trying to control it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and because he's so experienced as a fighter.


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[Assistant] I'm always returning to the idea of the poet, the poet knows language and knows meter and music so much that when you're going through a poem with them, with language with them, they can feel where all the beats should be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, there's almost a very instinctive instruction that's going on. He's guiding you.


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[Assistant] Rube pressure and intensity in this fight space, which is the opposite of teaching techniques.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Techniques generally are taught regardless of fight space. They're seen in the abstract, like a geometry, a cube.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is just like, this is how the kick goes, the foot goes there, this goes here. This is everything that's opposite that in a weird way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's very hard that you're gonna find somebody who's put ten years into an art, a martial art, and suddenly is like, exponentially improving.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if it's gonna happen in fights yet, whenever they come, because fights have a fucking, they're very armored in fights, but they very well might be showing up there with all the sparring that's going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who knows? It either comes or it doesn't. If it doesn't come in the first ten fights, it'll be there. If we keep up with this, it'll be there a hundred fights from now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we've talked, we've talked in the past about ROOP, uh, which we spell R-U-U-P, which is the Thai word for, what is the Thai word for?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, one of the parts of 3.0 that we've been focusing on, and to add to this 10 rounds of sparring, is focusing on root, which is maintaining a yodemoi, yodemoi meaning like an elite level fighters,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Roop. Now every fighter has to find their own Roop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? It's kinda like every poet has to find your own.


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[Assistant] Poetic expression. You can borrow your root from people you admire, but it tends to be something like, this is me being proud or strong, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, in a big regard, because unlike Western Muay Thai or Western Fighting, it's not all about damage points, right? It's not about how much damage did you do, bro.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's about how much you and your opponent can maintain themselves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's totally, we gotta link that, that's so good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One, two, three combination, pop, pop, pop, pop, and then your pad man walks in a semi-circle to take a little break. Your root is there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your root doesn't, his root changed, your root doesn't change. When the round's over and you go get water, your root does not change.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whole thing is over and you climb out of the ring, your route does not change.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So how has this been for you, just as an effort, to like walk through the male gym, it's a fucking male space.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With constant root, like, one, it's been hard. Cause there's so many times where you feel like, I can let my shoulders fall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, it's, I, I watch your ROOP all day. I come to training now and mostly I'm just watching your ROOP. I'm just watching for your shoulders to fall or not and then to remind you to put them back up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I notice a real difference of how people respond to you, especially in the times between trainings when your root is strong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know what you'd call those. Events. Training events.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That when your Roop is strong in the between times, people who are, uh, male guardians of the space, I'll put it that way, they are, they're like, I don't have to worry about that one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally. And I'm telling you, on the visibility-invisibility thing, there is a sense that with your tail up, you're visible, but there is a very strong sense in which you become less visible in the sense that these guardians of the space


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who are always measuring where's the fucked up part. They're like, I don't have to worry about that one because there's a strong energy over there. I'm looking over here at this person who's having a hard time, blah blah blah blah. And so they kind of give you a kind of autonomy in the space, which is very cool. It's not,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like you've shown that you're your own captain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So related to this is what, uh, another dimension of how we were approaching Rup, which for shorthand I was calling it Thor's Hammer, which is this


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's an intuition that I had, which is that all of your techniques,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of them would be improved if you started feeling strong in your shoulders.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The way you'd flex a muscle and you'd be like, damn I'm strong. You getting that feeling of strength in your shoulders as if it's like Thor's hammer across your shoulders.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, you started experimenting with what would these techniques, what would my guard look like, what would my punches, my kicks, my teeps, what would it all look like if I did them, but from a feeling of strength in my shoulders. And I got this intuition from watching Sen Churn, uh, Pinsanchai Fight, who's a very like, tight, guarded...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's got this tight guard, most people would think he's very stiff, but I can feel that, and also from watching Summer on Sock,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who was just like a massive puncher. And also from training with Laken, who has this kind of like, you can tell when someone feels strong in something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeltsin Clyde feels strong in his kick. He's like, let me just fucking blast a wall with this thing. And I'm like, you're naturally just very strong in your shoulders, but a lot of times when you're doing techniques, you don't feel strong in your shoulders. You don't feel that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pleasure of strength. And I'm like, we're working on the diamond guard, which is a shoulder type movement, a rolling shoulder type movement, and I'm like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's just put that feeling of strength in your shoulders into everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're the one who did it and has been doing it. What has been the result or what was the process like for you? Because to me it's fucking working. It's fucking working.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were saying this is that it was a relief to not have to worry about and think about so many things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think by being something that you're strong, that you have actual strength in, and for an organism to just feel strong in something it's capable in, like, I'm good at this, you are strong for your size, or maybe any size in your shoulders,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It paints every technique with a good feeling, which is a very big deal especially for people who are very self-critical, is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're doing techniques and you're continually painting them with negative associations like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keep your hands up, like all these inner coach thoughts. You're not gonna like any technique, even if you're good at it. And so you're not gonna trust it under duress. Look at that head shake. What's that about, baby?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I said, are you possibly the best for wrong whoever fought and he's like, I have to, you have to think that way in order to get in the ring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Politically correct answer is a great way to answer, but you're kind of like, I have to think that way, that I'm the best.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there is this kind of like, you have got to tap into the pleasures of what you're capable of in order to like, soar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] True, but I will say that pessimistic critical people think they're being objective when they're actually being super negative.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The supreme inquisitor of Sylvie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You always have the master argument, but I'm just like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's why my intuition was, let's start feeling your shoulders, because this is real. You don't have to fucking fake that you're strong in your shoulders. And you already know, one reason why you're an awesome clinch fighter, is you feel strong in your shoulders when you're clinching.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, but you already know what it's like to feel that. You're like, it's not like you have to convince yourself. You're like, okay, let's just take this feeling that you already have and let's start apply it to all your moi. And it's changing your techniques. It's unleashing your techniques in a really great way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's connecting up with what we mentioned before, which is your root walking around the gym, your root getting water, your root when coming off of a pad. We have to work on your root after you land a great strike. Your shoulders should be popping instead of slumping. But it's a really interesting dimension of growth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It happened just like your eye contact. Okay, that's good. Let's take a break.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a line of thought that we came upon or we've been developing between the two of us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe it really came to fruition when we did, we started doing a translation project.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because of the help of our patrons, we started hiring a Thai English translator to translate the Thai commentary on classic fights. Like, everybody has seen Muay Thai fights on YouTube, but you can't hear what the Thai announcers are saying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can't understand what the Dai announcers are saying, so we translated this fight between Shumung Pet and Pai Dang.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and, do you want to take over on that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we have to say, because of, uh, Samart and, uh, San Chai interviews, uh, in the past, there's this story like gambling has ruined Muay Thai, and we did a piece on this about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The ways in which gambling may be a problem in modern Muay Thai now compared to maybe past decades, but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gambling is essential to the comprehension of Muay Thai in Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the most interesting things about in this chomong pat fight is he's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fight is fairly close, and then something happens, and the odds just go...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fight is so unbelievably changed, but if you don't understand Tai, the Tai announcer, and you're not, you're not aware of what's happening in the stands, you don't know that the Tai, the fight has changed like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and it might, you might think you understand my Thai scoring, but you're not aware that in the arena, the odds just went whoop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is, to me, you might understand American football, but if...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if someone, if they just, if two fumbles were recovered and suddenly there's a 14 point change in the lead, in the score, the game is a completely different game. The person, the team that is behind has to play very, very differently if they're down 14 points when the game was tied.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just five minutes ago. And if you're not aware, like we watch classic Tai fights, we have no sense of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gambling is saying as the fight is proceeding, so we don't know the score.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's not only that. When you're watching a gay, uh...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, but it's not understand gambling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you're watching a classic fight, and we've all done it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And who's ahead, what's scoring, blah blah blah. You're watching this and you're missing the scoreboard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fighters and the corners are going off of the scoreboard. So you're like, you're assessing, you understand Muay Thai, you understand strikes that score high, don't score high, right? So you're like, I got a pretty good sense who's in the lead going into the fourth round.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you don't know the score that the gamblers are setting for going into the fourth round, you won't understand why a certain fighter is not being aggressive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or why he is or another fighter is being aggressive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that's what happened, is that we didn't know about the gambling and that as Karahat entered the fifth round, he was down on the scorecard, and he did score. He didn't score enough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the other dimension of it, is that if as a fighter you have a big gam- the gamblers are setting the odds, and you have a very big lead, you can let your opponent get small points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's scoring, he's scoring, he's scoring, but you don't understand that he's being allowed small points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want to return to the larger idea of how we experienced high fights on video.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even if you're very knowledgeable, you're missing maybe the most important thing of all, which is how are the odds being


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Set. Round to round. Because the corners are looking at the gamblers to see if they're behind or ahead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And once you know if you're behind or ahead, then you decide how you're going to play it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you were going to be very, like, uh, analytical about it on a video, uh, scorecard, you might have set different odds than the gamblers actually...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you cannot read the scores of the odds being set moment to moment in the stadium,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're not understanding why each fighter is fighting the way they're fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, you might technically at home think to yourself, it's a close fight, but the way that the odds have unfolded, it's not close.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, a fighter that's in the lead might just let small points score because they're not a threat to his lead. And you're thinking, this is a close fight. Now he's scoring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember there's a Samart fight against Nampon, and Nampon is like, there's very few points being scored at the end, it's very poorly edited, like half the fight's missing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sumart is just like, letting these points land on him, and I'm like, Sumart's not even landing any points. I'm like, Nanpon won that fight, how did Nanpon lose that fight? And I'm like, this basically was like, in the bag for Sumart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The odds got to the point, probably, where Nampom was down and he would just need baskets full of points. So, some art is like, go ahead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kick me, hit me, I'm gonna move away. And the lead was never ever challenged. But if you don't know the odds that are unfolding in a fight,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're kind of clueless why the fighters are fighting the way they were fighting. And I was gonna say, right when the camera stopped, was there was this fight where we went to many years ago, Petran Rung goes to very few of your fights, it was a festival fight, you were fighting Fa Cheng Rai, I think, and it was just like, in the fifth round,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You are darning on her, and I can see in your face that you...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're frustrated and had given up. You were going forward, but you were like, you did not believe that you could win. You were in your own head a lot and I'm, and the fight didn't feel that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Out of whack. Like, it felt like you almost could have won that fight. And I'm like, if you keep going and chasing her, you are really gonna lose this fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you looked desperate and your heart wasn't in it. So I told you to dance off, and you danced off, and Petra Roeng was like, what the fuck was that? That's crazy!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but you were not going to hit her. I knew you weren't. And my argument was, I know Sylvie, if she goes forward, she's gonna be further behind. Maybe the judges will give it to her. But what I didn't know, I don't know the odds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know the odds that were unfolding, and they were thinking, if you stop, you lose because you're behind on the odds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the score, it's like, the score is you're behind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if you stop, you're just behind. There's no way to reverse that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they're like, it doesn't matter if you lost by 5 points or 10 points, just keep going forward.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go to the finish line, because they're reading the odds. I didn't know anything, this was years ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was technically right, but I was also technically very wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also another fight that comes to mind was the Pornpon fight. Pornpon, this fighter that, uh, is beating everybody and you got matched up against her, uhm, in Hua Hin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A great fighter, this is recently before fighting stopped, and uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You weathered her for many rounds, had a big fourth round where you dumped her on the ground.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And at a certain point in the fifth round, you just, your corner was like, back up, back up, back up. I was watching your corner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I personally felt that the fight was very close, and maybe you didn't do enough to win, but I didn't know the score. I wasn't watching the gamblers. The corner is watching the gamblers, the gamblers are right next to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the corner is telling you, you have the lead, all you have to do is protect it. She came aggressively at you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think she landed, maybe she landed one kick, but the score was so far.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, in my brain, when I added everything up, oh, it's a very, very close fight. But if you actually knew the score that controlled the two fighters, it wasn't close.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You didn't know what the score was, and the thing is that if, if the score shifts in the eyes of the gamblers, then as a fighter, you fight differently. You now have the lead. You can afford to take some shots that if you didn't know the score, you couldn't take them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I fee- I feel like this is something that kind of like uhm, I want to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well this is just very basic about how we think objective reality is between you yourself and then if you have a rock, you look at the rock and you're like, that's a rock, that's objective. But the way that reality is really constructed is I'm holding a rock


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You feel like it's a rock. I feel it's a rock. Our-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Connection to each other. The fact that I could hit you and it would hurt you. That's what rocks do. The connection between us is what makes objective reality very strong. And what's really happening with the gamblers is there's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reality of the fight that's going on, but it's reflecting off of, I'm watching the fight, it's me in the fight, I'm watching the fight. But what's really happening is, there's a third party that is, that the reality of the fight is bouncing off of. And as that, as the gamblers are being like, blue's winning,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's this extra dimension, this second opinion about what's going on, that then the fighters see and respond to and change how they're fighting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's not like that. Yeah, okay, there's no feedback. There's no feedback. And I wonder what's gonna happen is the gamblers are all gonna be on the phone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're gonna be in the corner and being like odds are now


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, they both have, they both have their, I wonder if it's gonna be like that, that the odds are gonna be set outside of the stadium, or there's gonna be someone in the stadium coordinating, I don't know what that is, but this is really important is that, this is really interesting to me, is that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tai Muay Thai, with its wall of gamblers, is actually more real.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then in the West, what we do is we take all the gamblers out, all the odds setting out, and we condense it into three judges.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, but you don't get to see how the judges are thinking during the fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You basically have, instead of a real-time interaction of a feedback of the gamblers changing the score card over and over again as the rounds are going,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You get three neutral judges, neutral judges who are scoring it abstractly and there's no inner, there's no way to know whether you're ahead or behind in, let's say, a western boxing match.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I feel like the Thai wall of gambler feedback is a really ancient concept of performance and reality, like objective reality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe. I don't know enough about the changes in Thai culture. We've written a little bit about this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Diesel Noy complains about how gambling odds are not being followed properly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It kinda blows my mind how much information is lost.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In old videos of Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like you're watching basketball games with no scoreboard or something like that. And I'm like, uhm...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Instead of being like gambling is the problem, I'm like, it's kind of exciting to be like gambling is this beautiful dimension of reality in Thailand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And part of being a fighter is feeding not only


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You discouraged me from talking about my philosophical theory. I know, but I don't really want to write the article. It's so hard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's a very important dimension, like people try to think of Thailand as backward and kind of like, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like the gamblers are a primitive dimension of Muay Thai that needs to be modernized.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the article I will write eventually, this goes back to the formal structure of ancient Greek tragic drama, that you had the chorus and you had the actors on the play, you had the actual actors on the play and the chorus was responding


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why can audience, as a stand-in for the audience, so as the audience member, you're not only watching, uhm, Oedipus,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, so when they're horrified, you are horrified, and it becomes more real. And so this wall of gamblers is the Greek chorus that is personifying and exemplifying the state of what's going on in the ring because it's reflecting off of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's that same thing, that triangulation. And, I'll also write about this in this article if it ever comes about, is that this same, you want to understand this triangulation, the Greek chorus, it survives in film.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In film, it's the soundtrack. When you're, when somebody's walking up the stairs slowly, and you have the murder music going on,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're more nervous than if it was like a tinka tinka tinka, right? The soundtrack is setting the emotional framework of what the action is showing on the film.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it clues in the audience how to be seeing this. This is exactly what's happening with the gamblers on Muay Thai. And this is what you took, uhm, what did you take to Raja Damnern?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Andrew Zimmern, who's awesome, and you're like explaining to him how the audience, the gamblers behind you were this like wall of sound.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, this is probably our last segment on this. Normally our multi-bones go for like epic three hours, but I think this is going to be a shorter one. But maybe we'll do another one in a week or two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, there's been a running series that we've done which, uhm, Sylvia's been explaining Thai Muay Thai through Buddhistic principles. The idea is that if you understand these aspects of Buddhism, you'll understand


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thai Stadium Muay Thai, but also


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thailand's approach to Muay Thai, like good technique, improving yourself as a fighter, that buried in the fabric, the culture of Muay Thai in Thailand, are Buddhist principles because Thailand's Buddhist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, every multi-bones, we've covered one, and they've usually been a word, like, root.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rup is form, which we did. Uhm, god, we've done so many.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ning was a very big one. We don't have a word for this one. And we're actually probably gonna, you're gonna run out of words, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can't, there cannot be 250 buddhistic words that describe Muay Thai. So, now it's just a principle or a concept, right? Take it away, baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh true, under, under duress, fear, violence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't think that was a good to play. You're talking about when you were behind the cage?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But this is fight 264, and you're still on the same passionate path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is what I've always been talking about, what I've been talking about for a couple years about growing eyes, is that as soon as you turn the lights on in the room, you don't have to be-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nobody has to explain to you where the furniture is. You just see it. And nobody has to be like, this is better than the lights off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You just, your every single thing is easier with the lights on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the same kind of thing of like no theory is required and I think a lot of Thailand's Muay Thai is about no theory required and why a lot of Thais have in the past struggled with even teaching technique because it's just the lights on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, it's, that's what sugar tastes like. I don't need to write a theory on what sugar tastes like. Uh, Pinu is always talking about Tamachat, Tamachat, nature, nature, nature.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's because that's how it was taught to them and how it registers with them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so how do you bring sugar tasting, like how does one bring sugar tasting into technique or the practice?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's why we were talking about the sugar of your strength of your shoulders. I wanted to start injecting a sweet taste that you already know, like you know what it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well you just did a vlog, part one, of how to feel a kick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was this, some people laughed about it, as if this is something that is obvious, but people literally do not know how to feel their own kick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They'll, they know how to follow directions on put your foot here 45 degrees, whip your weight around and throw this thing, put your hand here on the, they understand the positions, but once they throw the kick, if you're like, where was your foot? I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where was your hand? I don't know. Like they literally do not experience or map where anything is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because they don't map it or experience it, they can't change it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You did a vlog basically was about these are really rudimentary relationships to your own self. It's a kind of self-knowledge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where is your foot? Where is your hand? And just throwing kicks and starting to become aware of where parts of your body are. So when you're talking about how people in their techniques are so busy trying to please a instructor, let's say, and be good, that they, they have cut off the most direct experience


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The most fundamental experience there is, which is of oneself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I would suggest that female, uh, students or practitioners of Muay Thai fighters have an additional burden of this because women do not automatically qualify as fighters. A fighter, generic fighter default is male.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So women are already entering into the training space, having to justify why they're even there, right? So which means...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to acquire the signatures of proper technique, which means pleasing usually your male trainer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you're already gonna divorce yourself from your own power, your own sugar, your own feelings, just to qualify. And then once you've learned that, and you progress, you just continue on with what already works.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which was learning how to model technique for the approval of a, of an instructor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How, how does, how does one start, like, even now after all these years, you're starting to try to tap into self-experiential knowledge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, practicing Vipassana has helped you. Because Vipassana is basically paying direct attention to states of your body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's why I'm looking forward to this next technique vlog, or one that you'll do in the future, part two, when you actually talk about the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they don't know where their hand is, they don't know where their foot is, they don't know where their weight is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want to do more of these too. Maybe we can start doing like shorter hour, hour long ones like every week or two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, not totally. Okay, cue music.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One, two, three. Welcome to Muay Thai Bones. Muay Thai Bones is- oh, go ahead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Library Coffee is a condensed little podcast version of the Muay Thai Bones podcast. Our Muay Thai Bones podcast, if you're interested, is like three, sometimes almost four hours of us talking on the road, uh, often driving back from Chiang Mai. But the Library Coffee edition is us having coffee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After Sylvie's trained with, uh, filmed with, someone for the Muay Thai library.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we have had no briefing of what each other thinks at all. So we might be like thinking like this. This is just a fresh take on a Muay Thai library session, but we also want to bring out, uhm, large, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ideas that are surrounding the session, so this session will be up probably in a couple of weeks. If you're listening on iTunes, it's already up, but if you're watching on YouTube, it'll be up maybe in two weeks, three weeks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But even if you don't watch the session, this is going to be an interesting discussion about bigger principled ideas that were buried in the session that you could study, but also think about outside of it, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's one of the interesting things about his boxing style. Not only is it totally compatible with Muay Thai because he's raised in the Muay Thai culture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ties don't see a big incompatibility struggle between Western Boxing and Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just, this is how you box in Muay Thai, like within the framework of Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's almost seamless. So maybe there's boxing styles taught.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Outside of Thailand that are, they're not as compatible. But training with, uh, him, you're definitely getting like Muay Thai boxing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were just in this session with him, what were some like, big or the big,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His is the teacher, not the violin teacher. Not the violin teacher.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to even, I remember when he taught you this six years ago because Sylvie trained with him six years ago when we were at Atlanta.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nobody even knew who he was, basically. I mean, the Ties all knew, but Furong had no idea that this quiet little guy in the corner was like WBC.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Regional champion fought for the world title like fucking unreal. He has beautiful boxing. But he taught you this thing and it's like, it seems so counterintuitive that you can hit somebody hard without clenching your fist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, yea, there's a couple of things. One is when you tense there, you're tensing all these muscles too. So you cannot let the force transmit itself to the end point, which is where the rubber, the rubber that meets the road, right? The other component of it is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His loose fingers takes advantage of a very weird architecture of the body, which is the knuckles and these bones as they flow into the wrist create


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A rigidity, like how an egg, you can't break an egg from the top. You cannot, if...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reason why he can hit you like he's throwing at the end of a crowbar at you is because he lines up these bones to the wrist and when it makes contact, the tension of the fingers would get in the way. It's like you're fucking spiking somebody with your knuckle bones almost and then it's lined up through the architecture of the body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, but we're describing something that many people will not watch, so let's bring it into...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, but we're talking about something that is very concrete in a video many people will not watch. We have to blow it out to a larger principle. So if you never see this video, and please go see it, but if you're never going to see it, what are we talking about that's meaningful?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's something we've actually found, run into, when you were studying with Sagat, and about keeping your elbow in, tucked, you don't want to chicken wing out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sagat was very big on like, do not corkscrew your fist. It's not Nung's style. He has a different punching style. But the thing about corkscrewing the fist is that as you roll that fist over, especially if you roll it early, that's what pulls your elbow up. Cause you're like corkscrewing, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Sagat is just like straight like this. Nun also does not bring his elbow up, which is important. You want that clean, direct power. But he's like, because his hand is loose, when you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Clench your fist early. I think that starts the whole like, like what you're saying. The dominoes start falling, where tension comes down the muscle, the elbow comes up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is there's ways to practice like Sagat does it by not turning his fist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nung does it by not clenching his fist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He weighs, he weighs at the very end, then he squeezes his fist. Charchai Sasakun, WC World Champion. Also in the library, this is all about boxing, uhm, for Muay Thai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, Char Chai throws the punch and then squeezes at the very end to create the like shock moment. But all of them have a relaxed arm coming out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, but this is very technical stuff for people that are not going to watch the video. So what do we, what do we learn? You know, I keep...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna keep pulling you out to like, you're not gonna see the video, but this is cool to know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll say also, when you do watch the video, you're like, he doesn't extend his arm all the way, he fucking does. He like, is like a spear, spear going into body, his body shots are just unbelievable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the rain trickling down, we're in rainy season right now in Chiang Mai, which is actually, it's cool and nice, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My, the thing I'm bringing out of this that just, I could just watch it all day long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Has to do with what you're talking about, that deep step forward. Like boxers are really good at taking very wide stances with bent legs. So they're always like on shock absorbers. And when you watch like Tyson come in for his hooks and whatnot, they have just profoundly wide stances. For Nung,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He does, he takes these deep steps forwards on his crosses and his body shots and his hooks and he, and he like bends that front leg down like, like a shock absorber till it, so all the weight, like you're like he's punching down all the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like coming down from above almost. And this is what the weird thing is about him that's very cool. Is that everybody, people generate, really high level fighters generate their power in different ways. You have to find, you have to feel what's natural for you in a set of techniques.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For Sagat, it's like he's powering through with his torso rotations, right? And he kind of comes with his shoulder too, he likes to feel that power of his shoulders coming rolling, he's like rolling. For Char Chai, he's like pivoting, he loves to pivot like a turret. Nung does this crazy like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what, it's like a wave that he brings with his chest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a lot of the session was him trying to show you this movement that he feels.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which really is a basic motion where he allows his whole body weight to come behind the punch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this, and then that step forward is like to me, what he really does is he's like a wave rolling in and then he breaks right before, right when the punch comes out. And he puts his hand to his head and his head and hand come together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then when the wave's ready to break, because his chest is like, it almost reminded me of like a breaststroke swimmer in the water. When his chest is coming and then as he's ready to break down, then the hand comes and extends out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This wave motion of his chest was really, really beautiful. And I feel like you can't copy it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to, I think, you have to take note.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Figure out, oh, he's stepping deep, he's bending his knee, his hand and head come together, okay, a few sketch notes, conceptual notes, and then you have to be like, he's moving like a wave.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, what's my wave? Like, everyone...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's in the, it's a fingerprint for him. Nobody moves, throws it just like that. So you have to, this is one of the interesting things about studying with really high level fighters and all of them in the library, there's like, there's over 80 hours. Is some of the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The elite nature of their skill came from them adopting...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Their own personal, finding their own personal, like, feeling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when you train with him, you cannot copy it. The temptation is to copy it. Like, Karhat's amazing floating chest on his kick, right? You're like, how does he do that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you have to be like, no, I have to find my ways. My...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Inner Game of Tennis, a mental training book, must read mental training book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Talks about basically almost all coaches in many different sports teach wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he talks about the nature of learning and how you basically have to turn the inner coach off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And keep looking over there, uh, turn the inner coach off and just let the instincts of the body take over predominantly in the action.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but it's not muscle memory, because the idea that, oh, if I just practice this thing over and over again, I'll do it without thinking. This is much bigger than that, right? This is about...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The body in space and then creating the pathways unconsciously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Instead of drilling something so it becomes unconscious, it's more like surrender to the unconscious. So anyways, this is like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a very interesting session because you're trying to like duplicate what he's doing and he's trying to get you to duplicate it. And you have to be like, no I'm not gonna do that, copy it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another larger idea that we touch on a little bit that you could take out of this. The style has so much power, but it's so loose. Like, it's made for shadow boxing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's made for shadowboxing though, where, you know, you see people shadowbox with the loose hands. Like, he's not like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Throwing his fingers in a lazy way or I'm just loose. He's like, loose and then I fucking hit you with my crowbar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What else can we bring out of this session, like it-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've secretly known that as a super clinch fighter, moe cow fighter, if you can start punching like accurately and combinations, remember that was something that was happening in the thing you only, you were throwing one shot and you're like, holy shit, I need three.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Accurate boxing doesn't have to be full power. She actually has incredible power in her hands that's been totally untapped in her career. Like, when she first started, when you first started, everybody was like, shit, your power in your hands. That was the thing everyone was excited about. So it's sitting there like a gold nugget to be dug up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we have this intuition that if you can punch accurately with like 70% power in the hitting zone, it will make clinching a nightmare for anybody fighting you. Because you can't defend both. And fighters like, uh, Samson Ahsan, who's in the Muay Thai library, was a fighter of the year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was a, a professional boxer who was also a Moen Cal clinch fighter. He combined the two together, long so on did a little bit, but it's like, this feeling like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is another of those big ideas that we'll probably touch on in the future is people train patterns all the time. If it's not one, two, three, it's like five kicks and then reset on the pads. People train patterns and then they expect a break.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone does it when you train with sparring partners, you each kind of agree on your pattern together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You want to break those unconscious patterns, but you also want to be able to push your opponent into their pattern where they're waiting for the break, and then you do not give them the break.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is the interesting thing about being able to punch through the hitting zone, where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's say you throw your two or three punch combination. Now it's a break.