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[Assistant] Check. Also we got a podcast right now that you're listening to. If you want to you can subscribe to it. If you want to you can leave a review. We also have some other podcasts.


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[Assistant] We got the thread that I'm still working on a name change. Every good name I think of is kinda taken, so I'm bummed out. We have the grounded podcast, which is about ju-jujitsu and life. We got the warrior kid podcast for your warrior kids. We also have warrior kid soap from irishoaksrange.com. It's also available where? On jockelstore.com. On jockelstore.com. Young Aidan making soap.


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[Assistant] Building a business. Who here was building a business when they were 12 years old? Now he's older now, but he started that business when he was 12.


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[Assistant] Don't forget that we have a YouTube channel. And at some point, Echo Charles is gonna start putting


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[Assistant] Easter eggs of special effects into the YouTube version of this podcast.


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[Assistant] Maybe a little sound effect, maybe an explosion. Some good opportunities today.


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[Assistant] Okay, well he's, not just sound effects, visual effects, maybe some smoke, maybe some fire, maybe some explosions. It's funny that you get, you make a four minute video and you show 97 explosions but you do a three hour video and there's nothing in it. What do you think people think of that?


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[Assistant] Don't you think people would, okay, do you think, do you think watching a three hour YouTube video is boring? It's you and me talking.


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[Assistant] Do you think that might be boring to someone? Visually. Three hours. Well.


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[Assistant] It is a yes or no question. Is it boring to watch three hours of a video of two humans in a black room talking to each other? Yes or no?


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[Assistant] Okay, well let's say it was, let's say it was some subject, like someone trying to explain how to cook rice. Do you think that might get boring?


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[Assistant] Check. Anyway. Yes. Subscribe to the YouTube channel.


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[Assistant] Subscribe to the YouTube channel if you want to see that. And Echo does make other enhanced videos and if you want to see stuff blow up, you can see it there. If you want to see, if you want to be, if you want to be bored, then you can watch the four hour podcast of-


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[Assistant] Little reminder of what you should be doing. Then check out flipsidecanvas.com, my brother Dakota Meyer.


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[Assistant] Making those, making things you can hang on your wall that will snap your brain into place a little bit. Also, we got some books.


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[Assistant] Uh, obviously the book that we talked about today, The Ride of Our Lives by John Goronsky. We got the code, the evaluation of the protocols.


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[Assistant] Check that one out. We got leadership strategy and tactics field manual. We got way the warrior kid one two and three we got


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[Assistant] Mikey and the Dragons. Apparently, which is the best little kids book that's ever been written. A lot of people are saying.


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[Assistant] And then extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership, which I wrote with my brother Leif Babin.


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[Assistant] Also have Echelon Front, which is my leadership consultancy where we solve problems through leadership. Go to echelonfront.com. If you have any issues, if you have any problems in your company, they're leadership problems.


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[Assistant] One hundred percent. Think about what I just said. One hundred percent. You do not have any problems that aren't leadership problems.


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[Assistant] If you don't believe me, go to aslanfront.com. We'll come and show you what's up. EF Online, this is our online leadership training.


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[Assistant] It's not just training, it's us, it's me. You wanna talk to me? Go to efonline.com and come to one of the multiple per week live interactive


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[Assistant] Webinars that I'm doing right now with the rest of the Echelon front team. Go to efonline.com


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[Assistant] All kinds of good stuff on there. Unbelievable community brigade of people and they're getting after it. Also, the muster live event.


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[Assistant] We're doing the next one in Phoenix, Arizona, September 16th and 17th.


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[Assistant] Texas, Dallas, Texas, December 3rd and 4th. Go to ExtremeOwnership.com for details. And look, we are, might have to adapt when it comes to social distancing and whatever else we gotta do to pull these things off. So the amount of seats that we have available might be smaller than


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[Assistant] What would normally be available. So if you want to come to the muster, then


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[Assistant] Get signed up now because we've sold out everything even with all the capacity being used. Go to ExtremeOwnership.com to do that. We have EF Overwatch. If you or your company, you need


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[Assistant] Experience leaders in your company that understand the principles we talk about. Go to efoverwatch.com to find the people you're looking for.


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[Assistant] And don't forget about americasmightywarriors.org


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[Assistant] She's out there. She is on a mission to help service members, active duty, retired, folks that just got out.


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[Assistant] Help them, help their families, help gold star families around the world. If you want to participate in that, if you want to donate, if you want to get involved, go to americasmightywarriors.org. And if you haven't had enough,


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[Assistant] Of my tedious talking. Or you need more of Echo's ridiculous rants. Then you can find us on the interwebs.


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[Assistant] On Twitter, Instagram, and on Facebook. Echo is at EchoCharles and I am at Jocko Willink. And once again, thanks to General Gronski for coming on.


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[Assistant] And thanks to everyone in the military for your service, especially those, yes, especially those, those iron soldiers of the 2nd Brigade, 28th Infantry Division.


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[Assistant] For your service and your sacrifice in the battle of Armani, we'll never forget you guys. And we'll never forget your fallen brothers.


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[Assistant] And to the police and the law enforcement out there. And I'll throw a special little shout out to Timothy Gronsky, Pennsylvania State Police Trooper. General Gronsky's son.


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[Assistant] To all of you out there, and then also firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service.


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[Assistant] You're doing all that hard work out there, getting very little support. Well, just remember that there are a lot of people that know what you do, know the risks that you take, and know how many people you help.


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[Assistant] And to everyone else out there, we do not know everything.


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[Assistant] Uh, I left my first squadron after four years with 1200 hours. So the numbers you're talking about, when I said I don't ever remember flying too much is because I didn't get to fly like that. That is, that's, uh, that's impressive.


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[Assistant] Is four guys in a squadron going on the road together. Squadron, everybody knew where it was going.


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[Assistant] And we would do things very similar to what he talked about is, we would...


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[Assistant] We would do things that apparently we weren't supposed to be doing and we're doing with other guys. Now there was a degree of safety in the organizations that communities had come a long way because of what they learned. But man, we would


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[Assistant] And more than anything, it's the culture that that generation created. We were smart about safety. We do a lot of things that, you know, to keep the airplanes and us safe. But man, that spirit and that culture, I'm just, I mean, I'm grinning ear to ear listening to this because that's where this all came from, was pushing against the organization. These are things we have to do. And look,


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[Assistant] There's a lot of things I wouldn't tell anybody about. You know, while I was doing it, looking back on it now, it's actually kind of fun to think about it. But man, we did some, going on the road, four ship out of Miramar.


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[Assistant] I was lucky enough to intercept a bear on my first cruise. I have a good, just a legendary shot of me and a hornet up against a bear. Uh, got to intercept an Iranian. I think it was a kind of their version of the C-130 right on the line there in the Gulf pull up alongside and reliving.


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[Assistant] We're living for the first time these stories that I'd heard about for literally decades, looking out the window of my fighter at a, at a Iranian, you know, cargo plane.


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[Assistant] He's on his side of the line. I'm on my side. There's probably, you know, a hundred feet, 200 feet between us waving, maybe some other hand signals along the way, but those are things that, that those are pictures of in your mind. You'll, I'll never forget those things. The first time I intercepted a bear on an alert, seven launch off a carrier, just sitting in the cockpit launch. I go 20,


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[Assistant] 12 minutes later, I'm, I'm in parade off of a bear, just thinking how many times this happened for me before, for anybody else before.


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[Assistant] I mean, listen to this is just, I mean, I'm kind of choked up just hearing you tell the story. I was, I was so lucky in my career to spend so much great time flying, but that I got to live with Jaco's guys for about six months in Ramadi on the other side.


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[Assistant] Incidentally, some of the same institutional things you dealt with and to be down there talking to my old squadron mates.


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[Assistant] Doing type one gun runs in situations that I never thought I'd be in.


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[Assistant] But how good it felt to do something that, to be honest with you, I didn't really want to be doing, but to be down there and have guys that I knew from my old squadron just coming in, doing gun runs. And when those missions were over, to go back and think, man, like you said, I mean, serious business.


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[Assistant] The fact that the Marine Corps let me do that, there was a lot of me that didn't really want to, but that was the most powerful thing I ever did in my 23 year career.


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[Assistant] Was, use aircraft as a fact to keep soldiers, marines, and SEALs alive, which to this day is-


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[Assistant] Is it not, Dave? 100%. 100%. That legacy has sustained from the beginning.


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[Assistant] I gotta be honest with you Skipper, with you being here, this is not, I kinda had a sense of what this would be like and I was, I was off a lot. This was really...


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[Assistant] I know Jaco, and I, I know you, having never known you, I think the way you describe it is everybody knows Yank.


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[Assistant] Look, I was just a bro for three years, and I spent most of my time...


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[Assistant] I've done so much less than I've been given. It's kind of crazy to sit here and listen to you tell all these stories about all these places and I've been to every one of them. I was a marine.


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[Assistant] At Miramar because you guys left in Hangar 2 South, took over Top Gun Spaces as a Marine.


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[Assistant] I was a training, I was the training officer at Top Gun. You can probably count on your hands the number of Marines that have ever gotten to do that.


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[Assistant] And so now I'm sitting here listening to talk about all the things you did and it just adds more to the...


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[Assistant] The pile of things that have happened to me beyond my control that let me do all these other cool things that by myself I could have never, ever done.


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[Assistant] And then from the outside, watch the conversation between two other people. And for the first time in my, my career.


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[Assistant] Start to recognize how much bigger this thing really is than I ever understood because I lived inside of it.


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[Assistant] And I was just working, I don't, I didn't know what I was doing, I was just working. Skip, I was just, showed up at Top Gun and I was just working. And then I left and I wanted to do other things. And now I'm sitting here, learning more about what I did, than I ever knew while I was doing it.


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[Assistant] I think I need to get a lot better. So there's a little dichotomy going there because I'm stoked on what we did. I'm so glad it's gotten out there and I'm so glad people are using this. But it is a reminder.


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[Assistant] For sure. You're gonna need a gi. So when you do gi, this is the gi you're gonna get. Origin gi.


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[Assistant] It's not just one origin gi, get as many as you want, but you have different, uh, selections is what I'm saying. See what I'm saying? So one of the reasons to get an origin gi, not that it's fun. It is fun to get an origin gi for sure.


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[Assistant] Yes. You ever thought, what do they call it? Like some therapy, like shop therapy, shopping or is it, is that


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[Assistant] Fixing that whole situation was like that was something that needed to be done and I did it by myself. Same thing with a different doorknob. It needed a lock. It didn't have a lock.


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[Assistant] So there's three altogether, with different issues. See what I'm saying? But, okay, so I did it, yes.


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[Assistant] Overcame it, did it, gratification. But on top of that, I shopped for the new doorknobs on Amazon and I got gratification from that too. See what I'm saying? But, so that fact does remain.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Or you could go get the, the, the not, the not best gi. Up to you. But, I mean, it's, uh, well, that's on you though.


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[Assistant] The most important kind of supplements, by the way. The ones that work. And, well, in the case of milk, the kind that tastes like dessert. So yes, that is the best kind of supplement in my opinion. But, but, joint warfare, krill, oil, these are free joints. Keep you in the game. That's a big deal. Like, doesn't matter how much you can get.


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[Assistant] It's the deal, right? Let's face it, if you're not in the game, then you're just sort of not in the game at all. Yeah, like, you know how, like, you're, you know, the kind where, like, you're super strong, but, like, your elbows are jamming you up so hard, like, probably you're not strong. No. Anymore. Cause your elbows can't take it, see what I'm saying?


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[Assistant] I think, I'm pretty sure, I'm not sure, let me confirm that later. But nonetheless, discipline, free reign, everyday, it helps. Totally does help.


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[Assistant] Also YouTube, YouTube channel if you're interested in the video version of this podcast.


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[Assistant] Yeah, sure, and video wise. He's quite proud of that. Sure, I mean, he's explosions in a while, but, you know, yeah, we're gonna continue that from time to time, I think. I hope.


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[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 236 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening.


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[Assistant] Recognized with an award at the end of training.


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[Assistant] The first award was for the honor man.


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[Assistant] And the honor man is the guy in the class. I think it's for the best sort of overall performance. Which is mostly physical.


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[Assistant] Running, swimming, obstacle course, pull ups, sit ups, whatever, whatever other physical events you do, life saving and knot tying and buddy breathing and pool competency and you kind of have to just do good at everything and not just good, you have to do really good at everything.


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[Assistant] It seems like the honor man is going to be one of those people who did some kind of athletics in high school, maybe even college.


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[Assistant] Although there was one other guy that was always right there with him, but somehow Keith must've edged him out enough times to become the honor man. I never was close enough to the front of the pack to know which of those two guys won, but obviously it must've been Keith. Cause he was just pretty much savage at everything. And even after


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[Assistant] Seal training, he, he pushed himself hard, tried to maintain that edge. And after his first tour at a team, he went back to Bud's to be an instructor.


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[Assistant] During an evolution with the students in the dive tower and the other instructors were


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[Assistant] They were working with the students and they were running the evolution and they weren't tracking Keith.


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[Assistant] And at some point, at some point he passed out and because he was just sitting down there


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[Assistant] He took on water by the time the other instructors recognized what had happened. He was... unconscious.


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[Assistant] And he never, he never regained consciousness.


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[Assistant] The other award that gets given out at the end of Buds is called the Fire in the Gut award.


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[Assistant] And I, I don't know if there's some kind of official definition for this award, but it seems like the award was given to the individual that had to dig the deepest to get through the training.


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[Assistant] Also inspired and motivated the rest of the class and in my class, class 177.


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[Assistant] Buds to basic seal training and through basic seal training is a pretty incredible story.


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[Assistant] And because of that, you know, we're, we're brothers, but we're brothers.


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[Assistant] Not only because we went to Bud's together, not only because we served at SEAL Team 1 together, but also through Jujitsu. I'm pr-


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[Assistant] I'm, I'm pretty sure we both started the jujitsu journey the same exact day.


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[Assistant] And we are connected through our jiu-jitsu lineage. Because Jeff Higgs eventually got his black belt. He gave the black belt.


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[Assistant] To Dean Lister, Dean Lister gave the black belt to me. And I guess we should include


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[Assistant] That there's also a connected lineage here to Echo Charles, who then received his black belt from me.


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[Assistant] It's been a while, but it's an honor to have Jeff here with me today to share his experiences, his knowledge, his outlook, and his lessons learned in life. Jeffree.


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[Assistant] I heard your voice at some pretty traumatic times in my life. So it's always good to sit down with you. Obviously we trained a ton. But let's start at the beginning. Let's start at young Jeff Higgs. Where were you born?


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[Assistant] And what was, uh, what was the situation there? Like what was your mom and dad doing there? What was the scenario?


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[Assistant] And we would go by, you know, I'm coming down from New England, from Connecticut, you know, whereas in the sticks, you know, I grew up on a dirt road. And so we'd be on the train, me and my buddies, and you'd be going through the projects for, it's probably, it seemed like about


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[Assistant] Maybe twenty minutes of riding the train, where it's just building, building, building, building, uh, you can tell that they're in rough shape. And, you know, I would always be sitting there on this train, you know, coming in from a really rural area, and looking in there thinking,


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[Assistant] And, and did you, what, I know you have at least a sister, what else do you have for siblings?


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[Assistant] Were all that, were all of you co-located in the same house with your dad?


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[Assistant] But, but so it was pretty much some of the kids that were around some of the time you're around Sounds like you said weekends with your mom, but the rest of the time with your dad


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[Assistant] And then what were you doing? Like what were your interests? What was going to school like?


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[Assistant] But, but that's gotta completely isolate you from like other kids. Especially in the projects.


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[Assistant] You, you don't, do you think that like, uh, when you were sick in front of all those people, you kinda got called out? It's funny cause we're sitting here laughing about that.


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[Assistant] But that kind of stuff leaves a mark on kids, right? It leaves a mark on kids.


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[Assistant] Do you think that left a mark? Do you think that's what made you kinda, uh, become more into books because books couldn't laugh at you?


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[Assistant] So then what was, it seems like, you know, you're reading books, you're kind of a nerd.


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[Assistant] Like I remember we used to go out at night and you'd see like prostitutes at


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[Assistant] Probably around 10 or 11 o'clock at night and they'd be out on the streets, you know, working and then we'd come back at three or four o'clock in the morning. We'd go to see a hardcore show or whatever. We'd come back later and there'd be those girls. They'd be out there, you know, turning tricks. They'd be looking like they'd been turning tricks all night.


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[Assistant] I mean, how does a, how does a kid that's reading about spiders get through that without getting dragged into it?


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[Assistant] Were you getting any guidance from your older siblings that were saying, hey, you might not want to do this? Cause the other thing, man.


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[Assistant] This is such a negative way to look at human nature, but so often you see people


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[Assistant] Try and drag other people down. And I, I mean, this was in the SEAL Teams.


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[Assistant] This is where I know it from, in the SEAL teams where, you know, you'd have somebody that was trying to kind of move in the right direction and the other guys would kind of-


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[Assistant] Drag em back down, you know? Like they wouldn't want people to succeed. And that's not a blanket statement.


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[Assistant] But I'm just saying, it happens and, and I could definitely see it happening within families where, you know, one sibling does start, starts to do something well and the other siblings kind of grab them and drag them back down. But I could also see siblings saying, don't make that mistake, go in this direction. Did you see either one of those or was it more just your perception of what to do and what not to do?


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[Assistant] Yeaah, New York is a completely and utterly different place now than it was in the 80s. Nevermind the 70s, I never went down there in the 70s, but in the 80s for sure.


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[Assistant] What about uhm, you know, one of the things you used to tell us stories, me, I mean you and I would sit down and talk for a long time when we were going through training and you would tell me stories about some of the characters in the projects. There was, I know there was a couple of brothers that seemed to have, they seemed to be


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[Assistant] They seem to have their own like world that you kind of brushed up into sometimes. It was just like, I mean I remember these stories man. Give us a little hint of those guys.


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[Assistant] Uh, so uh, so when you get to high school, is your attitude changed or is your attitude the same through high school? Very different. What happened in high school?


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[Assistant] Things changed. Did that change your outlook on things? Did you, did you start to look at the world in a totally different way now?


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[Assistant] So your dad died when you were 12. So you must have been in like 8th grade? 7th grade? What grade is that? Yea, 7th grade.


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[Assistant] Yeah. But also I don't think they had, that was like a local TV thing.


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[Assistant] That was the other funny thing about Mark and James, is they'd see you, and I remember, that's why, that's why to this day whenever I see you I go, Jeffrey. Yea, that's right. Cause they'd see you and they'd call you out. Did you ever reconcile some kind of relationship with those guys?


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[Assistant] Yeah, I remember you telling me you'd like be, you'd think you have, you'd think you would have made it past them or whatever and you'd be going up the stairs and all of a sudden you'd hear


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[Assistant] And you were walking, I think you were walking down the stairs and as you came down the stairs, one of them, whichever one it was, lit a match. Okay.


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[Assistant] Okay, that part I never knew. All I ever knew, all I remembered from Buds was it's about magic, wonder, I thought it was just what those guys made up. Just psychos. Yea, just psychoness.


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[Assistant] It makes me think it runs deeper than I've even thought before. Like the idea of when you saw Rambo.


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[Assistant] You're like, you can identify with it. Even though you were a nerd playing Dungeons and Dragons and looking at spider books, you see Rambo, you're like, oh, okay, cool, that's what I'm gonna do. That's a deep-seated thing, man.


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[Assistant] So, so you get to Florida. What was it like going to school in Florida? I mean, sea breeze. It's a high school. Sounds, it sounds nice.


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[Assistant] It sounds nice, but what was it? I mean, was it nice or was it a dump or?


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[Assistant] You talked to, when you talked to the recruiter, uh, so you had to talk to a recruiter again in Florida, right? You obviously had to change the recruiter. What did the recruiter say to you?


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[Assistant] That's why I'm surprised the first guy told you he didn't think you were going to make it. Although JP Danel, they laughed at him.


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[Assistant] The guy said to, for the Marine Corps said, you, we don't have what it takes anyways. And Dakota Meyer signed up the next day or whatever, right? That's a good, it's a little reverse psychology.


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[Assistant] I did the Die Fair program too. And it's funny too because when you talk, when it seemed like six years, it's


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[Assistant] Well, that's like an eighth or sorry, a third of your life at the time, right? Cause you're 18 years old and you're saying, I'm signing on this thing for six years and you and me, I don't know about you, I'm pretty sure you're probably the same way. I had no idea whatsoever what the daily life of a seal was.


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[Assistant] As far as I'm concerned, I was like, well, it's gotta be pretty similar to John J Rambo, right? I mean, it's gonna be something like that. We're gonna be out just hunting people down and killing them. That's what's gonna be happening. Six years, cool. Sign me up. You have no idea what you're getting into, which is kind of cool because


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[Assistant] I pr- I can just about guarantee that anybody that had an eye- that anybody that thought about what they were getting into, you thought it was gonna be way more extreme than anything that you could've-


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[Assistant] He was actually ended up in a class behind us, but I went through boot camp with him. And he was a smart guy, went to college, great guy. And, uh, he's telling me, he goes, yeaah. Seals have 50% casualty rate. Like, like no one makes it to retirement.


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[Assistant] This is 1991, bro. There's no, I mean I guess the golf war is about to happen but there hadn't been a war in a long time. And I think, I think it came originally from World War II when


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[Assistant] Like at Normandy, the UDTs took heavy, they took like a 50% casualty rate. But I thought that's just how. I thought I was going in, I'm signing up, and I'm gonna get killed or, or wounded, and I'm probably not gonna make it to 20 years. Whatever.


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[Assistant] Same attitude. Oh, yeaah. You definitely heard that they drowned you. You definitely heard that they drowned you. In training, you're gonna get drowned-ed.


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[Assistant] People are gonna drown you. That's what's gonna happen. You're like, yeah, that's what I want. Which is pretty crazy, right?


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[Assistant] An initial screening process. The crazy thing is so many people still quit. That's what's crazy. You know what you're signing up for.


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[Assistant] You know what you're signing up for. At least you have so much. You're signing up to die. I mean, I can tell you, I was signing up to die. Like in my mind, I was like, okay, when I sign this paper, you know, my life is no longer, is no longer a promise. It's no longer even a thing.


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[Assistant] Before we get the, the, uh, in the bootcamp.


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[Assistant] Dude, how did you not get freaking discouraged after you almost drowned and you don't know how to swim and you must be at least seeing that the seal test is, what do we have to swim, 500 meters? 500 yards to like go to buds?


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[Assistant] I don't, you know what's weird is I don't really remember, you know, some people have really good checking into bud stories or whatever, like they check in and they get immediately told to hit the surf in their dress whites or whatever. For whatever reason, man, I don't really even remember checking into buds. I think it was a weekend. I think no one cared. You know, and I was, the biggest thing for me is I was kind of surprised, you know, I expected


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[Assistant] To walk through the quarter-deck and just get ripped apart and start becoming a different, you know, you know like the James Bond movie, Echo Charles.


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[Assistant] But instead I open up the door and there's like two new, two other guys that are going through training and they're sitting there all scared looking and there's no one around. And I said, I'm checking into buds and they're like, okay, now you can just sign this and then you come back on Monday. And I was kind of let down. It was very, uh, anti-climactic. Some people get them much bad. Did you, was anything cool for you?


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[Assistant] They had that Texas chainsaw massacre poster in the medical area and it said, but it was crossed out.


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[Assistant] It's, it's crossed out, uh, Texas. It said Bud's Pool Comp Massacre. And it had like a mask on one of the guys that was getting his head sawn off with a chainsaw. And that's what pool comp is. You know? You're gonna go down there and you're gonna get annihilated.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's 30 minutes. Your first breath is water. So, so, cause when they rip that regulator out of your mouth, the hose fills with water. So when you put it in your mouth, you can't just know when your first breath is, and you gotta like absorb the water and get it out. And then you get a breath. So you're, you're in full.


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[Assistant] Just dying for air and you put that thing in your mouth and you still have to clear that thing. It's, it's really, uh, it's where I failed. I failed pool comp my first time. And then, uh, I don't know, were you with us in the dip tank?


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[Assistant] Cause over the weekend, myself and a few other guys that failed, did you pass it the first time when you went through with 177? Did you pass pool comp?


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[Assistant] Yeah, we, what we did, and I'm not sure how you weren't with us, but it was me and like three or four other guys that failed pool comp on Friday. And we went in the big dip tank.


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[Assistant] And we straight up drowned each other. We were just murdering each other in there and clearing stuff and man, I was so horrified.


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[Assistant] Of not making it. And of getting rolled. You know, cause I didn't even think about getting rolled. It was like as far as I was concerned, if I got rolled, that seemed like just death. You know, it seemed like the worst thing ever. But we pool comped each other so hard that all of us made it the first time on Monday morning. Like it was no factor.


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[Assistant] So that extra little bit of training, whether in Mexico or whether in the dip tank, I also, they let us do it. Like the instructors, I don't know how we did it. I don't know what happened that we had all the gear. Like we got full scuba tanks with air and brought them into the dip tank and just murdered each other.


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[Assistant] I don't know, that's not legal. You know, like that's not okay, you can't do that.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so, uh, we end up, you end up in our class. That's funny, I actually thought you did everything with us. I thought you got rolled into 177, I thought you went through Hell Week with us. I didn't remember that.


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[Assistant] I don't remember that you got rolled in dive phase.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, so then we did San Clemente Island.


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[Assistant] Chewing tobacco. Yeaah, that's not a fond memory.


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[Assistant] They found, guys, you're not allowed to have chewing tobacco out there. And they found somebody had smuggled a bunch out. A bunch.


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[Assistant] And so they made everyone in the class take massive, uhm, chunks of chewing tobacco. And then we did like a thousand eight count bodybuilders, which is like an old school burpee. And, uh, like me, I never chewed tobacco.


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[Assistant] I'm on fire. Requested to do a touch and go. Yea, do they still do that? Like the uh, frog hills? They still do frog hills. They still do flights. They still got a flight tower out there. They still do touch and go's the whole nine yards.


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[Assistant] Yeah. It's good times. Make you tough. So then you get, we get on with Buds, you check in a SEAL team, and uh, so what, it's 1991 when we get to SEAL Team 1.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's early 1991. Did we go to, did we go to airborne school together?


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[Assistant] I guess kind of a horrible reputation because, like, you're coming out of buds.


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[Assistant] Fresh out of SEAL training and you're down there just feel like you can do anything and of course the the black hats Which are the instructors down there? They they did you know what they call everyone Navy if they call every guy that's not in the army They just call you Navy and every that come on over here Navy. Oh


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[Assistant] Beat your boots. That was another thing. To make you do squats, they say beat your boots. And you basically gotta hit your boots. Uh, but it's pretty fun school. I had a good time. Yeaah, yeaah.


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[Assistant] And then, uhm, and then we check into Zeal Team 1. And you, and well we went through SQT together, or STT, it used to be called Zeal Tactical Training. Yes.


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[Assistant] That was just learning all the stuff that you actually, I wanted to actually learn. I'm sure we all just wanted to learn how to shoot, move, and communicate out of patrol. Explosives. Like this is when you start doing...


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[Assistant] Cooler stuff besides you being wet and sandy. Yes.


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[Assistant] And then from there we roll into our platoons. You're in my sister platoon. We're called brother platoon.


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[Assistant] Okay, fair enough. I wonder why they call it sister platoon. They do. They never call it brother platoon.


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[Assistant] Let's just say pipe hitters in it. Right? I mean you guys had some heavy hitters in Apple too. Yea.


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[Assistant] More so than in my first platoon. We had great guys in my first platoon, but the guys that you had in your platoon


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[Assistant] We're harder. Straight up, there's no real other way of putting it. They were harder on you guys for sure.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I've told a story on this podcast a couple times about like when I got to the team and I'm sitting out by the pole I'm out doing a workout on the floor bar and this giant human like barely human goes lumbering out across the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's probably 200, maybe even 100 yards from like the team area to first lieutenant where the engines are. And it's a guy from your platoon, you know who it is, the biggest guy in your platoon. And he's carrying a gallon of milk with him.


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[Assistant] And so he's lumbering across this giant guy with his whole body tattooed, no shirt on, and he stops like at the 50 meter mark.


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[Assistant] Let's just say some of it was wrong. Some of it, like some of it got taken to a point where it was not good for morale, it wasn't good for


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[Assistant] Unity, you know some of the hazing got to a point where you're like, hey that that's not that's not Okay, like that's wrong some of it's good, you know, some of it's okay, you know Welcome to the teams and it's a rough environment. If you screw up you're gonna pay but yeah, some of it went overboard but yeah, you had a you had a you had a hardcore platoon and when we when we got overseas we were


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[Assistant] You know, what I remember is an old, an old Master Chief who seemed like the oldest guy I'd ever seen in my life, which was Steve Bailey. You know, and he was probably like 7 years younger, 8 years younger than I am right now. He's probably like 40, but he seems so old. And he's like, does anyone here want to learn how to fight?


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[Assistant] And I'm like, yep, me. And I, I guess, I don't know if we were together when that happened, but we ended up in the Kwanzen hut with Mats on the ground, and he knew enough jujitsu, he was like a white belt.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so, so that must have happened, uh, cause you went right away to Thailand. Yeah. I'm still in Guam, you, everyone comes back from Thailand, including Steve Bailey, and then, when he came back, he must have said, hey, who wants to learn Jiu Jitsu? I raised my hand, you know, he, I think he, he's,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who wants to learn how to fight? Cause I think him asking who wants to learn jiu jitsu would have been the most...


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[Assistant] You know, it would have been like, oh, is this a language? Is this a, I wouldn't even know. So it was more like, hey, who wants to learn how to fight? I'm like, of course. And then I just remember him just choking us out. I mean, and everything just like with three or four different moves, you know, it was like, oh, he knew maybe an armlock, an Americana.


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[Assistant] Maybe like the sit-up sweep, he didn't, there wasn't a ton of different things. Like he knew how to take the back, but it wasn't this,


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[Assistant] It seemed like a lit, limited number of moves that Jujitsu was. It wasn't as evolved as it is now for sure.


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[Assistant] Were you already making the connection? I didn't even make the connection. I thought, oh, there's, in my mind, I thought jiu-jitsu was seven moves. Like I, you know, or whatever. Maybe when you get advanced, there's 12. You know what I mean? I just thought, okay, there's,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Seven moves, here they are, practice them, and then you know jiu-jitsu. I didn't, I didn't make the connection between


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[Assistant] That, what we were learning and this whole freaking crazy, uh, sport.


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[Assistant] You were staying, you were staying engaged in jiu-jitsu. When I got home, I didn't. And I think part of it's because I just thought, like I said, I thought, well I know the seven moves of jiu-jitsu, so I'm good.


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[Assistant] And I was in another platoon, and so I'm just like, okay, cool, I know Jiu-Jitsu. In my mind, I actually thought I knew Jiu-Jitsu. Like, I'm good. I know, I know everything. You know, it's like I know the alphabet, right? I know these words, so I'm good. And then, uhm, but you kept training. At what point did you find Fabio?


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[Assistant] Okay, so we do, we both do another platoon. Right. I'm in an ARG platoon, so I'm on a ship. You go back on a spec ops deployment to Guam. Did you go to Guam? So you go to Guam, and you're training that whole time?


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[Assistant] Including Fabio if he was there on the side.


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[Assistant] So then you, how many, how many hours a day were you training jiu-jitsu when you got out?


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[Assistant] Hey bro, you wanna, you wanna, you wanna go train? And I was like, yeaah. I was like, of course. So we go across the street to the, to the park across the street from my house in Coronado, from my apartment in Coronado. We go down there and you just, you just...


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[Assistant] You know, you're like, let's roll. And so, you know, I attacked you or whatever, and you were just triangle, armlock, you know, whatever, choke, back, you just annihilated, annihilated me. And it's actually,


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[Assistant] It's crazy, right? It's like, you had gotten so good.


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[Assistant] And I just remember saying, alright, give me the address of this place, I'll be down there. Is it open today? Cause I'll go down there today if it's open today. And if it's not open today, then I'll be down there tomorrow. And uhm.


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[Assistant] I went down there and I said, uh, I remember talking to Fabio's wife and I said, oh yeaah, I'm here and I want to sign up for unlimited classes.


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[Assistant] And she's like, well, do you want to try it first? And I'm like, nope, I just want to sign up for unlimited classes. And she's like, okay, so that was that. And then we, then, then it was on with the old screw, the old screw.


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[Assistant] Ghoul Crew at Fabio's, which was a beast crew.


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[Assistant] Brent was there, uhm. Remember Kim? Yep. I see Kim at wrestling tournaments sometimes. He's a referee at wrestling tournaments. Louis? Louis? Louis? Louis? The Korean dude from, uh.


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[Assistant] Especially like early when he showed up, he would, he would go hard. He was there to, he was there to win. Every time.


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[Assistant] So if you don't tap, they're still going to win because you have one arm. At what point


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[Assistant] You know and learn something different. And that's another thing I remember is when you came to my house to fight me.


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[Assistant] Uh, I was like, how would you, uh, you know, if we were gonna fight, how would you, what would you do? Like, how would you start it? And you did some weird capoeira stuff. Yea, I started doing coffee. Yea, and I was all confused, and I'm like, oh man, I don't even know what's happening, this is horrible, and then I'm in a triangle tapping out.


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[Assistant] Uh, and we were competing a lot back then. Like every opportunity we would get, we would go and compete. And one of the most, well it might be, it's definitely in the top probably five that I've been at live matches, was we were at Neutral Grounds. Oh yea, yea. Which was in the ghetto in, in,


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[Assistant] Like, Inglewood or something. I mean, it is in a nasty part of LA. And it was, uh, it was like in the backyard of some,


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[Assistant] I, we all had matches, and they set up, it wasn't a tournament, it was just like one match. And, uh.


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[Assistant] Uhm, the Armenian dude that was like a grown man and he, I thought Dean, I thought he like, I thought the guy died of exhaustion or something in the ring. I don't know if you remember that one. It was mayhem.


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[Assistant] But you had a match at neutral grounds, back in the day, against, uh,


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[Assistant] Bo Hirschberger, who was this, he was, he was like Hickson's, as far as I know, he was kind of Hickson's premier purple belt at the time. And at this time, like purple belt was kind of, yeah, if you were, like purple belt was the highest level that Americans had at this point, right? And so you had this match against, uhm,


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[Assistant] Against that guy, and he was a great guy, I mean he was a great competitor, he competed all the time, we'd see him all the time, but you, but he was a lot bigger than you.


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[Assistant] A lot bigger than you, you know, he's probably like, what do you think, 200, 220 or something like that?


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[Assistant] Big guy, and you guys threw down in a jujitsu match, and uh, you know, he was kind of on top, and kind of, as far as I can remember, sort of dominating the match.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, that's a weird thing too, it's, it's a cool thing about jujitsu, it's like you can go so hard, you can go as hard as you can, you know, like, that's the way jujitsu works. But then there's the other thing is, it's...


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[Assistant] As close as it is to a fight, it's not even a real fight. It's still not a real fight. And then what do you have in those other arenas?


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[Assistant] What can you do? What can you, how can you, what can you create really is what it boils down to. There's a creativity aspect. That's another thing that you kind of excel at with Jujitsu is the creative aspect of kind of creating moves and creating series that work really well together.


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[Assistant] How much, how much, uhm, you went to, like, I remember, you know, when I would see you, cause, cause eventually, uh, you know, we weren't all training at Fabio's anymore, we were training at different places, and so when I'd see you, it would always be,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To add to your repertoire of moves and movement and strength and conditioning. Yes. Is that just still something that you're always doing?


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[Assistant] And so where does it all lead to? Where does it lead to you? What are you doing now?


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[Assistant] Uh, usually two weeks. So you're training in Russia with mostly judo based guys. It's sombo guys. Just fighters. No, it's Vladivostok.


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[Assistant] And they're gonna have to at some point in America open up leg locks for the gi. It's just, it's silly. Right?


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[Assistant] Yeaah. Don't you think it's a little bit too like the culture over there is a little bit different? Just in terms of like. Yea, Russian culture is very different.


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[Assistant] The kids that wrestle, like, like if you, if you start jiu-jitsu, I'm not saying you're not gonna be able to pull this off, but if you start jiu-jitsu at whatever, you know, 24 or 31 or whatever, you start later in life,


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[Assistant] To get the reps in for the takedown game, when you're a little bit more fragile,


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[Assistant] And compared to a kid that wrestled, you know, 6 years old, 8 years old, 10 years old, through high school, had, you know, hundreds of tournaments.


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[Assistant] And by the time, like that's why the UFC is so dominated by wrestlers. Cause they are, they have that thing just embedded. They don't, they don't need to learn that. That's embedded in them. They know how to get that takedown. They know how to get out the takedown. They know how to scramble. There's a huge part of that, that wrestling comes in and that's what's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you start taking that and you just make, replace wrestling with sombo. And now you've been doing that your whole life, which has takedowns. Yes, it also has submissions. It also has knee locks and foot locks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But beyond that, right? What you need is unified grappling, where...


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[Assistant] Like these are the rules, the whole world. So, in the Olympics, there's no more judo, wrestling, uhm,


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[Assistant] Freestyle wrestling, Greco. It's just like, grappling, unified grappling.


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[Assistant] Here's the only, here's the only, uh, argument I'll say against that. If you're in a fight,


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[Assistant] And you get across side, you get past someone's guard, that's a real problem.


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[Assistant] Like if we, if we go in a real fight, that's why I think it's so advantageous. Well, that's why I think it's a big deal. Cause they say, oh, if you pass the guard, if you were in a fight,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're gotta, you're in a much, much, much worse situation than you were in a second ago, right? So that's, and if you're mounted, even worse, right? Half guard, a little bit, but.


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[Assistant] So I think there's, there, oh wait, if you give up the back, obviously in a real fight, that's the, that's the biggest problem. So.


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[Assistant] You remove the striking, but if you added the striking in, those positions are in some ways even more important, even more relevant.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, well I think the ultimate rule set for grappling is no striking.


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[Assistant] That's it. That's it. No time limit. No submissions are barred.


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[Assistant] Uhm, just you're not allowed to punch or strike the other person or kick them. Other than that, you can get after it. And you can go as long as it takes.


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[Assistant] Which means people are gonna have to, you know, get up.


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[Assistant] Right, that's why it can last so long. Because in a jiu jitsu, on no time limit jiu jitsu tournament, there would be like a limitation just by nature.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well I do have a solution for that too. My solution for that is you run three matches at the same time. So two of those matches are gonna be, at least one of those out of three is gonna be kind of exciting at some point. So you're just running three matches, you focus the television over there. I got this solved. What did I have a name for this? What was I naming it?


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[Assistant] Make the other person tap out. That's the one way you win. That's a game changer. Remember the Hickson tournaments that were like that?


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[Assistant] It was, but you could also win by 15 points.


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[Assistant] So, those, those matches would not go long.


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[Assistant] Those matches would not go long. You could win by 15 points or submission. And those matches would be like 7 minutes, 4 minutes, 10 minutes. Occasionally there would be some, you know, 20 minute match. Rarely.


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[Assistant] And, and, like, I'll do this with Taylor. We got a guy here named Taylor Johnson, and he's just a savage wrestler, and he savaged everything. But, you know, he gets a position on me, and I'm just thinking, if he, if we were to fight right now,


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[Assistant] He would just, he would be just killing me. He would be punching me in the head. Until I was dead. Repeatedly. Like, repeatedly dead. Cause he wants his own god. So, it, uh.


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[Assistant] If anybody wants to get a hold of you, like, anyone who wants to get a seminar, cause that's another thing, you know, you mentioned it, self-defense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And how that's kind of what your focus is, it's really solid. Like you have your own.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Little techniques in there. You got moves. I know you do weapon stuff. If somebody wants to get a hold of you to get some kind of training, what do they do? Who do they contact?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you have like an email that could be open to the public? Because you don't want to be giving out your email that you know you're doing your normal personal business on to a bunch of people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What do you see as like, when you see the, the disunification? Like, what do you see as things to move in the right direction of becoming unified again?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would that unify the world against a common enemy, or would it separate the world more? And here's, remember I had a guy named Peter Attia, he's a doctor, and he was a doctor in a, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the trauma center, an ER doctor in Baltimore. And so, I forget the statistics, he was dealing with something like 18 puncture wounds a day. So that's shootings and stabbings, this is Baltimore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, one of the worst crime rates in, it's actually one of the worst crime rates in the world. I don't know if you knew that. It's in the whole world, it's one of the worst crime rates. So that's what he's dealing with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what he said was, when you have a family come in that's gone through this kind of trauma, usually it's the loss of someone because these puncture wounds or, you know, stabbings or not everyone's as-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hate to use the word, not everyone's as lucky as your brother was taking a seven inch knife to the chest and surviving, right? Most people are going to die from that. And that's what happens. So what he said was, if the family is tight, if they're a tight knit family and they, and this horrible event occurs, this pressure will make them even tighter. However,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Opposite is also true. If there's fractures in the family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those fractures under that pressure explode and it just destroys the families. So I think what you're seeing right now and what you're talking about is, let's face it, in the world as a species,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's fractures, right? There's fractures with different countries. There's fractures with different cultures. And all of a sudden, we just got put under pressure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the disease. And what we're seeing now is we're starting to see these fractures expand. And what I will, from my perspective, the thing that we miss


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I keep trying to say this in different ways and maybe I, I mean I'll keep trying to say it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, in the military, what you end up doing is you end up dehumanizing the enemy. And it's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I'm gonna get told to do. I'm gonna go kill these people. So you know what? I'm not even gonna call them people because there's some part of your subconscious that says, hey, it's not okay to kill people. So you know what? I'm gonna call them animals. I'm gonna call them savages. I'm gonna call them whatever. I'm gonna call them, uh, krauts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So now we start to dehumanize them and now all of a sudden it's a little easier. Makes that job a little bit easier to kill them. Okay, so that's war. That's what happens there. Well what happens when you start looking at the different culture


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you start doing the same thing cause you're like, well I gotta take care of the peop- we're getting pressured by this disease. We're getting pressured by it. And I'm gonna take care of the people that are with me. And what do I do? How do I, how do I be mentally okay with that? I got a good solution for you. I'm gonna dehumanize the other people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now we get separated, and now we don't talk to them. And so that's what, when you talk about Jeff, when you go to these other countries, and you start talking to people, all of a sudden, they're not Russians to you, they're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever, uh, uh, Ivan. You know, they're a person with a family and it becomes, they become humanized to you. Just like when they meet you and they go, you know, they have this horrible vision of what Americans are like and then they meet you and you're cool and guess what, y'all do jujitsu and you like footlocks and it's like all of a sudden it becomes human. But we don't do that, we don't humanize each other on a broad scale. Which is very strange right now because we should have the ability to do that


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[Assistant] Look, let's be together, but instead we show each other the worst part of our...


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[Assistant] of ourselves and, and we place blame instead of taking ownership and that's kind of how we do. So instead of us unifying, as you said, Jeff,


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[Assistant] This pressure that gets put on us by something like this virus, all of a sudden we become more fragmented.


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[Assistant] And when we become fragmented, the ability to communicate with each other goes down instead of up.


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[Assistant] And the possibility of someone actually saying, hey, hold on a minute.


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[Assistant] You know, other human or other thing. Wait, maybe you have some of the same, whatever you just said, Jeff, about like, hey, everyone's pretty much got the same goals, right? Like you said, like, hey, I want my kids to have a better life than me. I want my kids to do better than me. I want them to have a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nice, be able to have their own family and kinda repeat what we did here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's kind of a common theme. And it's the same thing in Iraq, you know, whenever I explain an Iraqi family to people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I say, oh, if you want to know what an Iraqi family is like, it's very easy for me to explain. It's like an American family. Like if you have you asking some Iraqi dad what his goal is, his goal is to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Take care of his kids, you know, build up a house, build the business so their kid, that's what their goals are. Same thing when you ask an American dad that. Same thing, so it's across the board. We get in these situations where instead of, we're on like a mass dehumanization.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you have an open mind, you will learn something. Yes. From that other thing, right? It's kinda like, I mean, back in the day, Jeff, you and I lived through this, where it was a jujitsu move, or it was bullshit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? That's the old mentality. Like, that is not a jujitsu move. So therefore, it can't work and it shouldn't be part of the system. It shouldn't be part of the world. That's a bad attitude to have. And it's the same attitude if you look at another culture and you're like, okay, well there's a lot of things in that culture that doesn't make sense to me. What does make sense?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do you open your mind to say, okay, well, at least if I don't want to be a part of that culture, what can I take from it? What can I understand from it? How can I relate to it? So it makes me and my culture a little bit better, a little bit more understanding. Have a better grasp on the world.


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[Assistant] And we, we don't do that just like the old school martial arts and specifically the old school jiu-jitsu was, if it's not part of this, then it, if it's not jiu-jitsu...


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[Assistant] Don't, don't do it. Doesn't work and it's don't bring it in here. And that's the way, I mean, I think...


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[Assistant] I guess you could say like Bruce Lee, you know, he was kind of an early adopter and you know, if it doesn't, you know, he had some great quotes of which I can't think of any right now, but it's-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go. Thank you. Absorb what's useful, discard the rest. So that's the attitude to have. And yet what we like to do


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[Assistant] In martial arts and in life is discard everything else. We're not listening. I don't want to know what you know. What you know doesn't make sense to me and I don't want to be a part of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In, uh, on a, on a, on a personal level.


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[Assistant] Like it seems like you're doing your best to kinda reach out to the world and make that happen.


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[Assistant] Through, through jujitsu, through martial arts.


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[Assistant] Is the thing that people have such a hard time with, which is looking at all humans as one species.


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[Assistant] Gotta look out for each other. It's true. I think that's a good place to wrap this up a little bit. I actually have a question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was having a weird conversation with my two daughters the other day. And uhm, what they were, they were basically saying they don't like Instagram.


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[Assistant] You're like, wait a second, how is that person, how is that other person that's my age or a little younger, a little older, how'd they have this amazing situation going on and I'm over here, you know, with not an amazing situation.


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[Assistant] So, I'm not worried about you getting caught in that trap, Jeff. I think you'll be okay.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you can put words under it too, you know. Uhm, you can film videos. The videos can be 10 minutes long. There's something called IGTV.


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[Assistant] It is, well the funny, the really funny thing is when I got on this path, god I hate even using that word, I, well I started social media, uhm,


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[Assistant] Tim Ferriss, when I got done with uhm, interviewing with Tim Ferriss, he's like, do you have, do you have social media? I'm like, no. And he's like, you should get up. I'm like, no.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm just becoming a civilian, kind of. And he goes, yeah, you need to get Twitter. He goes, just get it.


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[Assistant] But the good thing is, you know, what he knew that I didn't know is that there's nothing to show. Like this is how you make it work. You put little words in here. And the thing that you'll find interesting, I guess if it's used in the right way, I mean I've made all kinds of incredible connections through social media. All kinds. I mean, I would say,


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[Assistant] 50% of the guests on this podcast and I've had some amazing guests.


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[Assistant] We're through social media. They DM'd or they emailed or they contacted or whatever. And I'm talking, I'm getting World War II veterans on here. And Vietnam, that's, I mean, incredible people that it's an honor to be able to have them on here. A lot of them come from social media.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, it's a great tool, it's a great way to communicate with other people, and just like everything else in the world, if you do it, if you go too far with it, it can absolutely turn into a negative.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The thing is you don't have to post a picture of yourself. You can post a picture of a knife, or a picture of a wall, or a picture of a plant, or a picture of a star, or your watch, or sweat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, uh, I got some friends that have died.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And their social media pages are there and I'm so happy that their social media pages are there cause it's like, yea I can go on there. Still alive. Yea, still hang out a little bit, you know. So there's definitely a positive in that regard. Yea.


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[Assistant] Like if you're a guy sitting there going, I can do 8 pull ups, you're totally wrong. You're totally wrong and you're gonna get destroyed. If it takes you 11 minutes and 30 seconds or whatever running a mile and a half and you think you're gonna make it through Buds, you're not even close. I mean back in the day, and I'm surprised they haven't changed it, and they have changed it now, like once you're in the pipeline,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You compete against everyone else. So,


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[Assistant] The way it works now, Jeff, is when you get to Buds, in order to go into a class, they give everyone in the class a screening, a physical screening test, the top 165 people go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just to get into class. See who gets the best score, so it ain't pull ups and getting you nowhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The crazy thing is, no matter what they do to those standards, the same number of people quit. It's the weirdest thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's definitely the cold water. The cold water, the lack of oxygen. And the sleep. And the lack of sleep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, and then those are, that right there is 90% of the quitters, I think. Then you have some people that, you know, whatever, they got some weird,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if they see some kind of weakness, that they see they can trip you up, and they might-


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[Assistant] Here's the thing, ego up or ego down, you know, they might be like, hey, no one's gonna wanna have you on this in a platoon. Listen, man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they start, you know, maybe they weren't thinking about it, but now they're thinking, well, I really don't want to let my teammates down and that hot cocoa looks good over there. I'm going to go get me some hot cocoa.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, jackhammering freezing cold and there's some quitter up there with an electric blanket on and a hot cup of cocoa.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're calling you out. I laughed at that craziness.


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[Assistant] I guess we're all probably going to start training Introducer if we're not already. Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess we're probably gonna be swinging some kettlebells, working out, trying to get better, trying to humanize each other. Yes. We're just moving in a positive direction. Yes sir. What do you got for us, Echo Charles?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Regular Krill has not been screened. Super Krill, they made it through the training. Yes sir. And they're ready to hook you up. It makes sense to me too. Don't get regular Krill. Get yourself off Super Krill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Before, at the end of January, I went to Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did not get COVID. Matter of fact, it never even like, it never even got after my immune system at all. I got the test.


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[Assistant] I'm not saying that it's like this genetic, uhm, uh, thing, but it's now proven that if you're healthy, right, if you work out, yes, if you eat clean, yes, if you take vitamin D,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very strange. You wanna talk about, like, strange times? Covid's strange, right? The world's strange. We got strange people running for president. When your head starts showing up on your friends' refrigerators, that's some strange times. That's some strange times. Yes, sir, it is. Uh, get some mulk. Get some protein in you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Protein's better than no protein for sure. Protein, which by the way, have you tried the protein I make Jeff?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, yeah, you're not good because it's no cuz he's got a Cassie and it's got the milk protein in it Oh got that and egg protein. So you're just out across the board. Yeah, you're gonna have to Well, you're gonna have to eat something else which is like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the way, everything that we just talked about you can get on originmain.com or you can get it at the vitamin shop. Yes sir. The vitamin shoppe. What was the first one? Originmain.com. Originmain.com. Yep. Main like the state.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, subscribe to this podcast. Uh, you can subscribe to it wherever. You can leave a review. We will laugh at your review if it's funny. And if it's cool. And if it's not funny, it's not cool, and it doesn't have any layers. Well, cool. We appreciate it. It's cool still. We're still cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Almost none. It's really cool. Everyone's super stoked on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeaah, you know, some people give some feedback that might be considered negative, but I look at it with an open mind and I say, hmm, maybe there's some adjustments I could make. Maybe I could do a better job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We also got the thread. We're almost out with a new thread with a new name and all that stuff. I'll let you know grounded podcast where we talk about jujitsu or your kid podcast where we talk about being a warrior kid. Don't forget about the warrior kid soap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Including Killer Soap, Irish Oaks Ranch.com or on the Jocko Store website. You can get yourself some soap so you and everyone that you know


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[Assistant] Stay clean. And echo usually goes like this. But you took the glory. And you said get clean. Which is also the precursor to staying clean. You have to get clean first.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yea, we got a bunch of podcasts, we got a YouTube channel that you can subscribe to if you want to see echoes. If you haven't seen this yet, Jeff Echo Puts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ridiculously, uh, crazy amounts of explosions and fire and, uh, terminator heads into his videos. Because he's all into, uhm, you know, whatever that's called. CGI!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Humble brag. Humble brag over here. I dig it. I dig it fully. He's kinda like, uhm.


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[Assistant] You know the enlisted guy that doesn't like the officers cuz they think they know what they're talking about cuz they went to college He just he just felt it


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That degree you have doesn't mean anything, apparently. We're peers. See how I like to instigate. Yes sir, I do. Alright, cool, alright. Uh, so we got a YouTube channel, we got Psychological Warfare, we got flipsidecanvas.com where you can get visual representation of the path, got a bunch of books, the code, Leadership Strategy and Tactics, Way of the Warrior Kid 1, 2 and 3.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want to talk to me and hang out with me and hang out with everyone on the Echelon Front Team, go to efonline.com and come and ask questions. We solve leaderships, leadership problems,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what we do every day. Come and check it out. We're on there. EFonline.com. The muster coming up. Phoenix, Arizona. September 16th and 17th in Dallas, Texas. December 3rd and 4th. ExtremeOwnership.com for details. We do, we usually do an introduction to jiu-jitsu at those things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we're going to try and be smart, and we may or may not do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Leaders at your team, go to EFOverwatch.com where we take leaders that understand the principles that we talk about on this podcast and they can take them and bring them to your organization. Also America's MightyWarriors.org, Mama Lee, that's Mark Lee's mom, and she has been on a mission, on a mission, since she lost her son.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On a mission to help service members, their families, Gold Star families around the world. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to AmericasMightyWarriors.org. And if you haven't had enough of my plodding platitudes,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or you need more of Echo's misplaced mentions. Then you can find us on the interwebs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On Twitter, Instagram, and on Facebook. Echoes at Echo Charles. I am at Jocko Willink. Jeff is gonna make some kind of social media of some kind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Apparently Echo Charles sounds like a skinny white boy. Hipster. Hipster. Hipster's often used.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, yeaah, so we'll get that. We'll get your social media, we'll figure it out. Hopefully. If not, we'll get you an email. And if not...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We will find an address that people can write you letters to.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's awesome, and you know, that, that just, you know, it's a, it's a great reminder that when you're going through life, if you make a little effort,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Make a little effort to help somebody out. You know, you can actually change the trajectory.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] of their entire life and we all have people like that that did those things along the way and clearly that's a great example. So be cool to people. Help them out. And with that, thanks Jeff for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For coming on, thanks for your service in the team, obviously. Your dedication to jiu-jitsu. And uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there's no guarantees as you once said to me. This is true. Time will tell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And to everyone else that has served or is serving, thank you for keeping the world safe for freedom and to the police and law enforcement out there. Firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service. Thanks to all of you for holding the line.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Despite low pay and high risk, despite the lack of appreciation that you receive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Know that most of us are grateful for what you do to keep us safe and to everyone else out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just remember that life is not easy at all. There's gonna be challenges. You're gonna get beat down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There will be punishment, and you will fail sometimes. And that's okay. That's okay, as long as you get back up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And until next time, this is Jeff Higgs, and Echo, and Jocko. Out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, a lot of that time, even if you look at old pictures, like, you know, the old school black and white pictures, you're looking at and it's like, dang, that's like, you know, you understand what a photograph is. It's a capture of real...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's basically capture of light coming through this thing and a record of it, right? But what it says is this right here in this little frame right here, this actually happened. This was a actual point in time right here. There's the person, there's the people, whatever. And yeah, you trip out when you find out like how long ago that was. It's weird, man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The idea of your very existence was non-existent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like the word, like the word moist. I don't know why, but that, that, I don't like that word. Even when, you know how some words, I don't like it when I say it, but other people can say it and be like, okay, that makes sense and I don't care, but moist is one that anyone says moist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You see, it was kinda, I don't know man, just don't say moist. Okay. Seems sane.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Scarlet letter, remember that book? Yeah. Old school. Yeah. A. Yeah. Yeah, same deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because everyone has a, I mean, the simple answer is like, everyone's trying to be the Alpha, right? Kind of thing. But, yeah, it's like in a, in a team, like, just like all those guys, right? There's like different types of guys for different jobs. In a team, there's different jobs, typically.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's a, there's things called logical fallacies, there's like a bunch of them or whatever, and that's one of them. And there, there's actually two of them that are kind of, one is one and then the other is just like flipped around and it's essentially that, where it's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Individuals, like if an individual is a level 5.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you get, you put three of them in there, that makes it a level fifteen. It's not the case. It's, logically it seems the case, but it's like a fallacy for that reason. And then the inverse is right too, where it's like, if you have a team worth fifteen, if you just break them up, you got three fives rolling around, performing at five. That's not true either, because they can function better together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, or at the very least, uh, level down, you know? Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it makes sense when you think about it, but there's so many, it's weird, I was like reading all these files, I was like, yeah, that's true, that's, oh, dang, and it's, cause you automatically think these things, you know, there's, yeah, there's a bunch of them, but yeah, that makes sense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, not to interrupt, so this, you're reading from a paper right now? Where'd you get that? Like, obviously it's a book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, one of those things where it's like, okay, are you going to work hard or are you going to work smart? Ideally both. I get it. But, you know, when people are faced, you know, in the mix and it's like, work hard, work smart, it's kind of like, okay, not a lot of people say, I mean, I don't want to say not a lot, but I'm just saying there are people


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And turn their back on the smart part, you know? I guess it seems understandable. Yeah, if you're not- I mean, detached, it's kinda like, sure, I'm gonna s- I'm gonna play this the smartest I possibly can. I have force, for sure, but I'm gonna play this the smartest, given how much force I have. Big, small, whatever. Yeah, to follow that makes sense, but, I dunno, I guess it's maybe not the most obvious.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, actually that makes sense, but it does depend on what kind of tired you're talking about. So, you know how there's like the three tired.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sleepy tired, okay. So far, yes. Uh, that's the one you're talking about where you're a little sleepy tired, but you're not the other two kinds of tired. You can just warm up a little bit, get the blood flowing, you know, maybe boost some adrenaline in some capacity and you're rolling, you're good to go. You stop, you're gonna go back to sleepy tired a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So now, in jujitsu, you can have a guy, a real ha- fast paced guy, and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're muscular fatigue tired, you're not like breathing hard, you know like, I mean that I guess typically happens if you're like really not in shape and you go like a few rounds, you know? Or if you, or if you've just been rolling all day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, fully, and it'll, you know, obviously depend on how good a shape certain muscles are, muscle groups, whatever. And it can apply to individual muscles or parts of your body, or your whole body. Like, you ever felt like, bro, my body is just all getting up, it's like, it's like your whole body is muscular type, but you're not breathing hard or nothing, you're just like, oh, I'm dead, you know, kind of thing? It's like, you know, if you roll for like, a long time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, the Hawaiians have two words for water, so it's like, okay. What are the two words? Well, actually there might be more, but there's water like on a river and there's the ocean water. Cause they're like different things, you know, in their mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Vi is river water, or like lakes, or you know, like space.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yea, and that's why, like, there's a lot of like, towns, and even names or whatever, they'll have Kai in them, or, or Vi. It's actually Vi, but it's spelled W-W-A-I. So Kai, K-A-I, is the ocean water. That's, they're referring to the ocean water.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly right. Kai something, you know, or it could be part of it, you know, like you can have names like, you know, Kainoa or, you know, Kailani or this and that. Uhm, and Kailani roughly translates to beautiful ocean. Lani is like beautiful or, you know, loving or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's, there's a bunch of translations for sure. We're not putting you on the spot. Yeah, I'm digging deep in my, you know, Hawaiiana right now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three words for tired. Two words for water. In Hawaiian. And you know. Cool. There you go. Alright, we're gonna go with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So R is as far as you can go straight up whatever speed. We're just trying to get there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, I understand. Yeah, okay, that makes sense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they're a blend. It's not like, you know, they blend into each other kind of thing, so it's not like, oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you run into like in the beginning of say that kind of exercise or whatever like kind of a chaotic kind of scenario? Oh for sure. And then what you just sort of what give them guidelines or work through it like but you coach them up like after


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, for sure, but that's crazy how like SEAL team practice and training or whatever, like the parallels with like, basically team sport, because basketball do the same thing, same exact thing, they'll, you know, it looks different on the field, obviously it's a different sport, but they do the same thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know, and I'm totally picturing it, and yes, that's a, that's a glorious, uh, vision, for sure, right there. When I was young, we were watching Rambo and Commando.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More or less, more or less, yes. Uh, and my dad,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He commented on that. He said, cause he saw, uh, if I'm not mistaken, um, Arnold Schwarzenegger in Commando, cause that's the one we used to watch together, and he had it, yea, shooting from the hip, one hand, holding the, the, the belt, yea, the belt in the other hand, and he's just laying down, he's just mowing down everybody, right? In the little plantation, wherever he was. And, my dad said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like, man, like, that's impressive. You see that gun that he's carrying right there? I was like, yea, he's like, that gun, it would take me, you, and then he named like our neighbor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like, it would take all three of us to pick that gun up. It's like, that, you know, that's a heavy gun to me. My Arnold's holding it with one hand. So it's interesting you say that, cause damn, that's what my dad said back in the day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know of a guy. Roadblock. No, no, no. Cops. Might be cops. That cartoon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's, yeaah, that's one of the most legit names I've ever heard in my life straight up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, you know, those guys who, you know, they're into smoking, you know, so they, and I don't mean like they're just smokers, I'm just saying they're into smoking, you know, so when they light this cigarette, they got the old school classic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gold-plated lighter, and they do the little mini micro performance before they light their cigarette. They'll do, you know, they'll flip it like it's a butterfly knife or something like that. Kinda like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. As far as a warfighter goes, you see what I'm saying?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I know J.P. Donnell. Uhm, I've known him for a while. For sure. He's always come off as like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, a little fun fact, Michael Bean is the guy who played Kyle Reese, who is the character who said that whole thing to Sarah Connor in Terminator 1, and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We might call this layers, we might call it coincidence, we might call it parallels, but his most played role is a Navy SEAL.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep, it's true. You know, good examples of that is the movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers. So, this is an old school movie, by the way, my dad used to be super into it, but I noticed the aliens, they come down and they take over your body, right? Now they're- What's this movie called? Invasion of the Body Snatchers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they come down and they take over your body, but you still look like you. You can't even act like you. But you have an alien agenda. See?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when this guy, the farmer, the alien, the cockroach alien, was walking down the street as the farmer, like, his body was so jammed up, his skin's all falling down or whatever, everyone was like, eww, like, he couldn't function in society, same thing, so this agenda,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And also interesting too, that third tier is actually sounds still pretty solid, you know, where it's like dying on the finest food just in some ordinary cut, you know, kind of the thing, but then you compare to like the lavish top tier. We all want to get there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're incapable of providing awesomeness, how can you shake anything with that awesomeness? You see what I'm saying?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He used to always say the word awesome, like just, just inappropriate times in my opinion, right? So that kind of turned me off to the word awesomeness. He'd say, yeah, I met this girl, she was just, she was just so awesome. And it's like, alright, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know how like a girl, she, this girl must be really something if you're in awe of this girl. You see what I'm saying? Cause that's really what awesome is, right? It's awe. So, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, so he'd always use it, so it really turned me off. So I'd tease him about it, so anytime he's around, I'd be overusing the word awesome, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then after a while I just started using it normally. You know how that happens, right? I think we talked about this before, where you start using a word just as a joke, you know? And then it slowly creeps into your normal vocabulary. That's what awesome is. So I'm rolling with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, very nice. Now I'm really gonna roll with it. So, alright, well, we gotta keep ourselves in the game, you know? This game. You cannot be awesome and shake any worlds or anything with awesomeness if you're not in the game to begin with. If you're not on the path. That's my opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. Oh, it's legit. It does sound like a, like a Kanye West maybe statement or, uh, you know, something like this. Okay. That's something he would say I'm saying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, I will take your word for it. Anyway, be on the path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I'm saying, now, what you're gonna do, okay, the path is like, it's full of, and I'm gonna kinda quote you on this one, it's full, it's full of obstacles and traps. That's true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, those obstacles, challenges, or whatever, got something for you, got some supplements, this is for your physical and mental ability to stay on the- Supplementation. Yeah, to stay on the path in the game, et cetera. So, Jocko Fuel, got a whole line for you for any, pretty much any ailment, pretty much, generally speaking, it covers at least a little bit of-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Any ailment that may be bestowed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, let me specify, cause some of these ailments we simply don't have, you see what I'm saying? Uhm, like, if you don't need extra protein, this is just an example, if you don't need extra protein in the form of a dessert, some people, they don't need that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course we don't want that. I mean, as far as protein goes, how can it get in it? Well then again, steak, you see what I'm saying? Steak is not in the form of a dessert, but sort of the same desire. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, alright, well let me start at the beginning. Okay, join and work for it, that's for your joints. If, if, and when, or let's just say if they start to f-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, but here's the thing, I totally cheated on that statement because look, if you break your arm and I give you a leg massage, that'll help. It won't help your arm specifically, but you know, legs all loose and good to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also the supplement discipline. If you want some supplemental discipline, boom, got you. Discipline the supplement. In cans, powder form, boom, whatever you like. Did you say krill oil? I did. Super krill. Super.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, you talk about, uh, the, the four something of light, right? Yeah, those are the lightness. Those are the principles of lightness. You gotta keep it light. You have to, in my, especially after listening to this, I think so. And that's what the, that's what the super crew, that's what the joint warfare, that's the discipline too, by the way. So it's all part of the, the whole circle of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When down the line, like all this stuff, you know, like, okay, proprietor, I was like, bro, this guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's interesting. And then when he goes down the line, you know, of all the stuff that's in there, it's all transparent. Like, you know, all the ingredients are like on there and stuff. And you're kind of like, man, this is like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, at OriginMain is jiu-jitsu stuff. When we start jiu-jitsu, when we're in jiu-jitsu, we want to get a new gi, we want to get a gi, or rash guards, or whatever. OriginMain.com, they got that too. All made in America, by the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I'm kinda thinking of the boots, right? And some other stuff, I get it. But, the boots, we'll just say the boots. So you know how, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Woo, zee, no, uchi. Yea, uchi. He's talking about, uhm, like, hey, you spent a lot of time making that thing beautiful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm still trying to figure out the use for it, right? These boots are kind of like whoever made them. Pete. And them. Was kind of doing both. See what I'm saying?