[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but then ITV took over and Martin Brundle had come in at Mark Wilkin, the producer's behest, at several of the broadcasts one year and shown himself to be very good. So ITV then used him.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and that he was the best plug I ever worked with. Bar, long chalk, wine.


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[Assistant] Because he's a nice person. Because he's predictable. Because he's got a good sense of humour. Because he's been there and done that at the highest possible level. World sports car champion, winner of Le Mans.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, drove for eight Formula One teams, finished on every step of the podium except first, beaten, had beaten Schumacher.


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[Assistant] And he was one of those rare individuals, a top sportsman, top of his craft, who could actually talk entertainingly and interestingly about it, as he still does.


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[Assistant] And a, and a team on a steady cam, the people who walk backwards giving you the pictures. And I will just walk down the pit lane and talk to whoever I see that I want to talk to. And it will be unprompted and they, they won't be expecting me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With one exception, I primed Joe Ramirez of McLaren.


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[Assistant] And I walked down the pit lane and the last person I talked to as he leapt out of his car and crossed the track to come to the pit area was Tom Walkinshaw and it was brilliantly successful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because this hadn't been done before where you were actually in the pit lane and you were actually talking not.


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[Assistant] Recorded but talking live to the people that the fans wanted to hear from and idolized was something entirely new. And then it sort of fizzled out somehow until Martin revived it and does it brilliantly well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tom, people ask, say, who's the greatest?


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[Assistant] And I always say to them, look, I can't answer that question because you can't compare drivers of one generation with drivers of another generation when they were driving different cars at different circuits to different rules.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you just have to make a subjective judgement, uh, and you can try to justify it, but if someone thinks passionately about someone else, it's very difficult to challenge them. Why fangio? Well,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was unique and he is still unique in that he, uh, won five world championships, four of them with different constructors.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With Maserati. With Ferrari.


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[Assistant] Now admittedly he did that because he was astute enough to know that he was the best and that he could therefore drive the best car and he therefore used to just have yearly contracts and at the end of the year he would decide which, which constructor he was going to drive for next.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but he was a great person as well. It wasn't just that he was a great driver. He was a humble individual.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who'd come from very ordinary circumstances at Balcache in Argentina and he came across to Europe, uh, and, and conquered it in a 4 CLT Maserati and then got all these works drives.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and he was, uh, absolutely supreme. The only person who really could hold a candle to him at that time was Stirling Moss.


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[Assistant] The greatest driver never to have won the world championship, and much greater than a lot of the ones who did.


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[Assistant] People seem to think, Tom, that people in your position and my position are continually


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Home-nobbing, having lunch with, having dinner with, having drinks with, going on holiday with, and generally being super-duper friends with top drivers. You know that isn't the case.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, nowadays you have to make an appointment about the fortnight before when you want to talk to a driver. In my day it was a lot easier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because Formula One wasn't as professional and wasn't as far reaching and wasn't as big a worldwide sport as it is now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Precisely, so uhm. But still you had a relationship with Nigel. My big exception is, I like to think that I was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty close, if not very close to most of the English drivers, uh, particularly my mate Nigel Mansell, uh, not the easiest person in the world to get on with, uh, for a lot of people, but I always found him extremely kind and helpful. I've stayed, stayed at his home in


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Florida, when he lived there, stayed at his home in the Isle of Man when he lived there, uh, and we, we came up through Formula One together, and he's a good old boy. He's a, he was, they called him Leo Leoni.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Italy when he drove for Ferrari and Il Leone means the lion and it was a very good description of Nigel because he is and was lion hearted and I got on extremely well with him. Uh, I got on extremely well with David Coulthard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, on a personal one-to-one basis, I got on with him extremely well, but you have to bear in mind that with all of these people, Tom, I was representing the BBC and the BBC was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mighty important and still is mighty important.


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[Assistant] Uh, and not many of them were going to be unpleasant to me, but because of that and irrespective of what we were like on a personal chemistry level, uh, but quite apart from that I got on with, but, but, but Nigel,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is, well sorry, was, and I don't suppose he's changed, uh, in many ways a difficult person to get on with, uh, very thin skinned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Took offense very easily. Did you ever criticise him?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can only remember one. Nigel used to...


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[Assistant] Be very aware of what everything said to him. I think he had a network of friends and informers who came to him and said, you know, you read science, um, Nigel. Nigel came up to me once and he said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's this you've been saying about me being boring? I said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nigel, would I say that you were, you of all people were boring? Well, that's all I said, he said. So I mean, that was the only, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I, but I, I had, I didn't, I was present at an occasion, two occasions with Nigel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Developing producer at the BBC, a chap called Ken Burton, very nice bloke. Uhm, and he was supervising an interview that Nigel and I were to do. And he gets the camera all lined up and then he says to Nigel, Nigel, would you mind taking your cap off? Nigel said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I paid a million pounds to wear this cap. Now I won't.


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[Assistant] So the, Ken Burton says to the cameraman, uh, avoid the cap, avoid the cap.


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[Assistant] So we did the interview and it was a back to back situation. The next weekend we were at another Scrawlbury.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Ken Burton's got the cameras lined up. And he says to Nigel, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here's Tom. Would you mind taking your cap a cap off Nigel?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can't believe it says Nigel and stormed off. Stormed off? Stormed off, yeaah.


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[Assistant] And, uh, so I gave it five minutes and I went to him and I said, look, uh, Nigel, uh, I had a chat with him and, uh, we came back and we did the interview. But I had a similar situation, or not dissimilar, with Damon Hill in his championship year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he was working unbelievably hard. He was doing six hours in the gym every day. And I sat down to do an interview with him at Portugal.


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[Assistant] Uh, and he was looking very peaky, very thin, his cheeks were sunken and his eyes were looking haunted for want of a better description.


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[Assistant] I said, Damon, are you alright? You're not overdoing it, are you?


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[Assistant] What do you say that for, he said, and stormed off, he stormed off. A demon.


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[Assistant] Okay, they gave him five minutes and then I went and said, look, Damon, I've obviously offended you and I'm sorry. I was perfect, perfectly unintended. I said, it's all right, Murray said, I'm okay now. But he said, just before you, I had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another chap interviewing me and he said, what would you give to have your father back for just one hour?


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[Assistant] Uh, Damon's father was Graham Hill, double world champion, killed in an air crash, dramatically adversely affected Damon's life.


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[Assistant] And to ask a question like that at the best of times would have been ill judged, but in the nervous state that Naaman was in with the world championship in the offing it was lighting the blue touch paper and standing clear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People accuse me, uh, Tom, of thinking of smart-arse things to say and writing them on the commentary box wall so that I could slot them into the commentary at the appropriate moment. Not true!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're standing there with adrenaline pouring out of you. You're having to interpret the pictures that the viewer is looking at and you're looking at the same pictures as they are, uh, so that they know more about and are hopefully interested and entertained in what they're seeing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was very much involved with Damon. I had been aware of him when he was racing motorcycles at Brands Hatch and became the Brands Hatch 350cc champion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was aware of him in his youth and then he switched to cars. So when Graham was killed and the Hill family, Betty the mother and Damon the son and the two daughters, Richard and Samantha,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, were cast into the wilderness because Graham Hill's insurance was invalidated for a variety of reasons and they were on very hard times.


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[Assistant] So I'd lived all through this aware of what had happened. And when Damon crossed the line to win the World Championship, after losing it to Schumacher in dubious circumstances in 1994,


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[Assistant] It really did all well up inside me and quite spontaneously I said, I've got to stop now. I've got a lump in my throat because I had genuinely got a lump in my throat. Do you stay in touch with Damon now?


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[Assistant] I hear from him occasionally and see him occasionally, yes.


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[Assistant] Top man. Top man. Absolutely top man. Yep. I second that. Decent, kind, humble.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jolly good driver, good sense of humour. When he started doing his television work, he was one of two or three people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, basically, uh, pundits, and uhm, I used to sit watching the box and Damon was standing there, not really saying anything, but listening to the others. And I was saying to myself, get in there, Damon, you're...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're a pundit, you're supposed to be saying something. And of course now he's changed beyond recognition and he's jolly good at taking the initiative and asking the right questions. And genuinely being thoroughly entertaining from the point of view of someone who's not only been there and done that, but done it and become world champion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, very difficult indeed, Tom, uh.


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[Assistant] There again, because I had been doing it as long as I had been doing it and because I was doing


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[Assistant] Formula 2 as well and Formula 3 and Formula 4 and all the other things. I used to catch these drivers right at the beginning of their careers. And I did with Ayrton Senna in 1982 when he was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Winning everything in Formula Ford. So I would been aware of his career and very much so and interviewed him umpteen times.


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[Assistant] I had got out some tapes I have done of the iconic year 1983 in Formula 3 when Senna and Martin Brundle were battling for the title.


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[Assistant] Senna won it, but Martin won a lot of the races and only just failed to win it himself.


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[Assistant] And I, and I realised at that time I had been talking about Hayat and Senna.


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[Assistant] And I had become sloppy like a lot of people and was now calling him Ayrton Senna.


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[Assistant] So I resolved in 1994 that I would use his correct pronunciation of his Christian name. So in the first race of the year, which was, uh, Aida in Japan, if I remember correctly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sorry, the first race was at Deloitte. Home race for Senna, yeaah. And Senna spun out and Schumacher won. The second race was at Aida and, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Senna got turfed off by the Mahackenen or Lorini, I can't remember which it was. Uh, and uhm, so we're now at San Marino, the first European race. And I sat down with Senna and said, uhm, well, uh, well Ayrton,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said, uhm, two races down, you haven't got any points, Schumacher's got twenty.


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[Assistant] What's to do? What happened to Ayrton? He said.


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[Assistant] I said, how on earth do you know about that? You're in the car when I'm talking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, he said, I keep in touch Murray. And that was a typical example of how Senna had got his finger in every pie right up to the hilt and, uh, knew a hell of a lot of what was going on. Now,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is Senna the greatest of all time? Not to me he's not. A brilliant, charismatic,


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[Assistant] Do what may and cost what it may, that he did some highly reputable things, like crowding Prost at Imola, like taking Prost off in Japan, uhm, and, uh, I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Australia, uhm, the end of the season it was then, uh, Jackie Stewart was doing an interview with Senna.


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[Assistant] And Jackie was absolutely brilliant. He just took Senna apart. Uh, and Senna lost his temper with him.


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[Assistant] That's it, that's it. So I then had to follow Jackie Stewart who did it immeasurably better than I would have done anyway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With an outraged Senna, but uhm, it, it's similar. To be perfectly honest with you, I haven't got the guts to, to do it a second time. So the answer is no. But it was, now, don't use the word tragedy in the BBC, say.


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[Assistant] Senna's death at Imola was a tragedy. Uhm, as you've pointed out,


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[Assistant] We had Rubens Barrichello having a nigh unto death crash on the Friday.


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[Assistant] We had Roland Ratzenberger being killed on Saturday, uh, and uhm, so uhm,


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[Assistant] I just tried to remember who that was that went into the back of JJ Leto.


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[Assistant] Yes, it was Petrolami, that's right. At the start? Yeah, yeah. Uh, at the start, uh, as a result of which the safety car came out.


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[Assistant] Now, with all the wisdom of hindsight, I should have stopped the race.


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[Assistant] Mercedes Benz driven by a highly talented driver, as it is now. It was whatever was around, like a Fiat Punto, um, driven by somebody who got some talent, but, uh, the Formula One cars were trundling round.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For several laps while they cleared up the debris and, uhm, as a result of which the tyre temperatures went down, uh, as a result of which the ride height went down of the cars, they were closer to the ground, uh, when the race started again with, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Schumacher and Senna vying for the lead. Senna, Senna went off. And my first reaction, Tom, was...


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[Assistant] Wow, that's a big one, which sounds pretty casual, but I said that because I had seen on other years


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[Assistant] At exactly the same corner, the Tamburello, um, Michele Alboretto go off and was alright. Nelson Pico go off, hurt his foot, but he was alright. Gerhard Berger not only go off, but to be in the car with it on fire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was thinking, I'm talking about someone who's been done to Chris before our very eyes. Uh, they got him out. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The first instinctive reaction I think was, uh, it hasn't been too bad in the past, it probably won't be too bad now. But then I rapidly realized when Professor Sid Watkins,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The FIA's medical chap, who was absolutely brilliant, came out, the race was stopped, the body language was very ominous.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I didn't know what was happening because I was in the commentary box and there wasn't anybody to tell me. I had pictures from Rye, the Italian television company coming into the box, but which were not the nicest and wouldn't have been shown by the BBC.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Literally for the first time the BBC had got its own camera unit there. So Mark Wilkin, the producer, was able to cut away too.


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[Assistant] Uh, but I had to walk the tightrope between...


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[Assistant] Don't worry folks, it'll be alright. I've seen three others go off at the same point and they were perfectly alright. He'll soon be back. And, oh dear, I fear this is terminal. You don't say that sort of thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Somehow or other, you have to find the words to walk that tightrope between the two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he was taken away in the helicopter and the race was started, but uhm, the atmosphere of gloom and misery at


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[Assistant] What many people regard as the greatest driver of all time, almost certainly being about to die, and subsequently doing so, uh, was immeasurable.


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[Assistant] Adelaide actually. It's difficult to put a cigarette paper between them but Adelaide is smaller, uh, I'm not going to say friendlier because Melbourne was very friendly too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but it was, it was a different, the indefinable difference between the Formula 1 race being everything to Adelaide and the Formula 1 race subconsciously being another major sporting confrontation in Melbourne.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With tennis and lots of other things against it. Uhm, but either venue was absolutely brilliant and I love the Australians, I love the country, I love the food, I love the whole attitude about the place. My wife who lived there and was educated there


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It says it's all very well for you because you've only been there when...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, you have been the chap that talked to them about the Formula One that they were passionately interested in, and they made a gigantic fuss of you. You haven't been there in an Australian summer, when the temperatures are 45 degrees, and not at all pleasant, and she was perfectly right. But, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who cares? I mean, I still think it's fabulous.


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[Assistant] No, just a minute. It hasn't got to be 82. 76 takes a hell of a lot of beating. 76 was the James Hunt year, of course. Uhm, when, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He won in Spain and then got disqualified because the rear wing was an inch of an inch or something too wide.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he won, he won, won the British Grand Prix after it had been stopped. And the crowd made such a fuss that they had to restart the race or risk a riot. Uh, I was doing the BBC radio, uh, pit lane, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interviewing, James came rushing past me on his way from getting out of the car back to the pension. I tried to stop him to do an interview. Very stupid thing to do actually. And he says, there's a race on old boy, there's a race on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And got, got in, got in the refixed car that, uh, Alastair Caldwell and his mates at Marlborough had, uh, managed to do well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keeping the FIA officials occupied by making protests and generally being difficult to give themselves time. Uh, and then James won the British Grand Prix, only to have that disallowed. And then you had the Niki Lauda crash at the Nürburgring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which ended, uh, his career with Ferrari and very nearly ended his life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And finally you had the incredible situation at Monza. No, not finally, almost but finally. Well, Lauda came back almost literally from the dead and finished well in the points in a blood-soaked crash helmet. Uh, and then


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He drove in the race that was going to decide the championship, the last race of the year in Japan at Fuji. Uh, the weather conditions were so appalling that he had the guts, the courage to, to pull out of the race and say, my life matters more than the championship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and James won and it was another dramatic situation where he got a puncture and had to come in. Anyway, 1976 was a hell of a year. Uh, but then...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was cos it was such a wonderful year and because it was James and because he was British, uh, the, the public suddenly became aware of Formula One, really aware of Formula One.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the BBC started to televise it and it was because the BBC started to televise it that Formula One became as popular worldwide as it did, as it had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When uhm, we had I think four different drivers leading in the last couple of laps, because first of all Alain Prost was leading.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, then his place was taken by Riccardo Patrese. He was in the closing stage. And I mean the last lap but one. Riccardo Patrese in the Brabham who lost it on the way down to the hairpin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and then Didier Pironi took over in the Ferrari only to, I can't remember whether it was a petrol starvation or an electrical fall, but his car stopped in the tunnel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so briefly, believe it or not, Andrew de Cesaris was in the lead. Uh, and then he retired.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The race that no one wanted to win, wasn't it? Wonder of wonder, Derek Daly in the Williams, uh, is now leading, uh, and, uh, he lost a rear wing at the Rascass, I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And meantime, Riccardo Petresi had regained and won the race. And there's never been a race like that before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Favorite circuit, I think, I'm hard put, but I think it has to be Spa.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Partly for personal emotional reasons.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My father raced in the Belgian Grand Prix at Spa with great success and that was at a time of course when it was the really long circuit, not the shorter one that they have now for safety reasons.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But Spa in the Ardennes is still, even though it's been shortened, a brilliant circuit, almost a public road circuit in glorious surroundings. The Belgians have the best food in Europe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's almost invariably a thumping good race. It's the race that Damon Hill won for Jordan to prove that he could win a race in more than one day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For more than one constructor. Although he nicked nearly one for arrows. Uh, one there for Williams.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was in a tank regiment, as I think I said earlier on, and uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, it was the Battle of the Bulge where Hitler's last despairing throw was to chuck the whole of the way to the Western Wehrmacht against, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And try to, try to get through to the Channel Coast as they had done in Dunkirk years earlier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was a general called, uh, General McAuliffe, Nutz McAuliffe, they used to use him because they thought he was nuts. And the Germans had him in an impossible situation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they demanded his, his, uh, retirement, uh, surrender. Sorry, that's the word I'm looking for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Americans managed to bring up reinforcements and won and that was basically the end of the beginning as far as Hitler and the German Wehrmacht were concerned on the Western Front.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were driving across Germany chasing the retreating German army and being instructed by the 21st Army Group. We were the lead regiment of the British Army and we had instructions to get to Lubeck before the Russians because Lubeck on the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] East coast of Schleswig-Holstein Peninsula, uh, controlled access to Denmark, Finland, Sweden, and Norway, and whoever got there first was going to be in a strong position.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got, we, we did an 80 mile march in the last day, which in a tank is unbelievable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, we linked up with the Russians. We were the first British unit in the Army to do so. And the first Russians we saw were...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three of them on a German captured BMW motorcycle outfit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With, uh, a squadie at the handlebars, an officer on the pillion, and a Russian woman soldier in the sidecar. And we did all the fraternizing bit, thumbs up, and they were saying, Lubeck? Lubeck?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we were saying, ah, we're in Lubach, mate. We're there first. Up yours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Story that is hopefully not with a sad ending, uh, but I saw Williams from when Frank Williams and Piers Courage were a one car team and then, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Frank went with the Tomaso and subsequently founded his own team, got Patrick head aboard, built this incredible organization as a private owner that won so many world championships for drivers and constructors.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Only to fall on the hard times that they're in now, and I hope and pray.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're going to be able to fight their way out of it, but it's going to be terribly difficult against the moneyed might of Mercedes Benz and Ferrari and Red Bull and to a lesser extent Renault and even some of the others.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there have been some wonderful times, Nigel Mansell, Nelson Piquet, Keke Rosberg, uh, David Coulthard and all, all the rest of them driving for Williams. Not the least of them, of course, was Ayrton Senna and Damon Hill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, that's my answer. Williams and, uh, God be with them and I hope they manage to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. What is the next?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's gonna change, Tom. I'm not sure about in what direction it's gonna change because when I started,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The driver had the engine in front of him. He was wearing cotton overalls and a skull cap. Uh, there were no runoff areas. There was no arm co. The medical facilities were minimal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and the whole top half of the driver stuck out of the top of the car. Uh, look at it now. They drive around in safety cells.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Generate any enthusiasm about formula E, to be honest.


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[Assistant] Because part of the great part of the attraction of Formula One is the noise. And, uh, to hear something whining past you is not the same as hearing a full-blooded V12 or even as they are now a turbocharged engine.


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[Assistant] So it's going to change, and I don't know in what direction it's going to change, whether it will continue as some sort of...


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[Assistant] Nice to talk to you, Torment, if I may, uh, return the praise.


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[Assistant] Unfamiliarity with modern digital techniques. I used to write, write my race stories and because I was incompetent enough to send them back to HQ electronically.


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[Assistant] You used to type them up for me and send them through and I have never ever forgotten that and I have forever been grateful to you. Thank you very much.


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[Assistant] Hi everyone, Tom Clarkson here and welcome to what is, I can't believe it, the final episode of 2019 of your favourite podcast, Beyond the Grid presented by the new Bose noise cancelling headphones 700. Well, what a year it's been. 43 podcasts and more legends than I could have hoped to meet in a lifetime, let alone nine months.


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[Assistant] And more stories than I can possibly do justice to here in our end of season Christmas special.


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[Assistant] But I've spent the past week compiling some of the most memorable anecdotes from series two, which I hope you're gonna love. Now let me tell you, this was no easy task. I could have easily picked an anecdotal two from every single guest.


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[Assistant] But in the end, I've plumped for a list that I think showcases the full breadth of the conversations that I've had. So whether you've been a listener since the beginning or you're joining us for the first time today, please sit back and enjoy hearing your F1 heroes one final time this year.


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[Assistant] To kick things off, let's turn first to the 2009 world champion Jensen Button. He and I caught up at the Russian Grand Prix to talk about everything from having children to winning the world title.


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[Assistant] Everybody in Formula One, December 2008, how much of a shock was it to you when they pulled out?


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[Assistant] Did you have any idea what a beast the team was developing for 2009? So were you all quite hopeful up until that moment that 2009 was going to be a great year anyway?


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[Assistant] So how good was it? As you say, there was a good vibe in the factory. The numbers were good in the wind tunnel. I think you did a first test on Silverstone National Circuit or something. Did you know immediately that you had a weapon?


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[Assistant] And there's all sorts of wonderful stories that I've been told about, you know, you finding out that, you know,


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[Assistant] All right lads, let's take, well, fuel levels and stuff. Just talk us through that bastard. Well, we arrived. That was the sort of first time, right?


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[Assistant] What an incredible story. It's hard to believe there'll ever be another fairy tale like Brawn. And to hear about what happened in such detail from the man himself was fantastic.


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[Assistant] From JB to DC, who I went to see in Monaco at the start of the year. David Coulthard had just retired when Button had his moment in the sun, but there was a time 10 years before that when DC was hot property. Very hot indeed, in fact.


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[Assistant] Hadn't there been a tug of war over your services at the end of 94 as well?


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[Assistant] During his stint at McLaren, DC was teammates with Kimi Raikkonen for three years. He remembers Kimi as monosyllabic and someone who slept a lot. And perhaps Kimi revealed why he slept so much when we caught up at the start of the year at testing.


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[Assistant] He had me in stitches when he recounted a two week bender back in 2013. Kimmy, I've gotta ask you.


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[Assistant] About two week period between the Bahrain Grand Prix and the Spanish Grand Prix in 2013.


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[Assistant] But uhm, but Kemmy, there was a, there was a pretty intense two week period. You finished second in the Bahrain Grand Prix in 2013. You then finished second in the Spanish Grand Prix two weeks later. Maybe three weeks later. But quite a lot of partying went on.


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[Assistant] You know, when you go and do a 16 day binge, which I would still have hangover now.


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[Assistant] Kimi turned 40 this year, and he's set to surpass Rubens Barrichello's All Time Starts record in 2020. Rubens is very proud of that record, but that isn't what we're going to hear about now. Instead, let's listen to Rubens tell the story of when he had dinner with his hero Ayrton Senna at Adelaide in 1993. It's not what you might expect.


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[Assistant] I absolutely love that story, and the smile on Rubens' face as he told it to me at Interlagos last month sticks in the memory.


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[Assistant] Have you ever wanted to own a part of Formula 1 history? Well, if you're anything like me, you'll be excited about this because for the first time ever, Formula 1 has a global online store packed with items from licensed Formula 1 teams, drivers, suppliers, and partners. F1 Authentics is this season's newest online retailer that offers unique


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[Assistant] Timeless and authentic memorabilia, bringing Formula 1 from the racetrack straight to your door.


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[Assistant] To a Mercedes-AMG Petronas Motorsport team front wheel rim turn drinks table, there's something for every Formula One fan out there. Yes, that's you, F1 fans.


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[Assistant] With F1 Authentics, you can guarantee origin certainty. All products are sourced from official Formula 1 teams, drivers, suppliers or partners.


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[Assistant] So you can either bid for your desired purchase or buy them straight away if you simply can't wait. One of the items that I've seen that's hard to resist is a Kimi Riken and test used helmet from 2004, which has been signed by the Iceman himself. Imagine having that as part of your Formula One collection.


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[Assistant] So whether you want a stunning new addition to your home or a gift for that avid F1 fan in your life, make sure you don't miss out on products from the official store of Formula One memorabilia.


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[Assistant] Visit www.f1authentics.com and become the owner of a piece of Formula One racing history.


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[Assistant] Next up, let's turn to the man who was Senna's teammate at Adelaide in 1993, Mika Hakkonen. I visited Mika at his home in Monaco and we talked for ages about his career and its highs and its lows. And it was the lowest of lows that he spoke about most powerfully. His accident at Adelaide in 1995 and what came afterwards.


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[Assistant] So, that includes Christmas then, I suppose. Were you there Christmas night before?


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[Assistant] So it was a gradual process, the return. It wasn't, you didn't like wake up one morning and go.


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[Assistant] Nervous were you before testing for the first time after the accident? It was at Paul Ricard, wasn't it?


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[Assistant] Even now, hearing it for the second time, that story has the hairs on my neck standing up. Just incredibly powerful memories.


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[Assistant] Mika and I also spent quite a long time talking about Michael Schumacher, and it's on the topic of the seven-time world champion that former racer Derek Warwick had me laughing out loud when we spoke about the time he and Michael tripped over each other in a sports car race at the Nurburgring.


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[Assistant] Every time I see Derek these days, I think of this story, particularly when he's acting as an FIA steward at races. Do not mess with the man drivers, he's as hard as nails. Now Derek raced for Brabham in 1986, and it was the technical brains behind the team that we're going to hear from now.


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[Assistant] Gordon Murray was and still is a design genius, and he was responsible for the Brabham BT46B, which was also known as the Brabham fan car. It was a beast, and it raised a few eyebrows when it hit the track for the first time in 1978.


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[Assistant] If you're one of those people that hits the skip button when we get to this stage of the show, and we know you're out there, keep your trigger finger at bay because we've got a special announcement that you're not gonna want to miss. As a special treat for our loyal listeners this Christmas, we're giving you the chance to win a pair of Bose noise-canceling headphones 700.


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[Assistant] And you could be one of the lucky winners that gets the chance to enjoy Bose's world renowned and adaptable noise cancelling technology first hand.


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[Assistant] So you can keep your heads up, your hands free and your ears amazed with the new Bose Noise Cancelling Headphones 700. All you need to do is go to f1.com slash Bose Competition and answer this question.


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[Assistant] In the episode of Beyond the Grid with Alex Albon back in September, the Red Bull rookie revealed his childhood racing hero. But who was it? Was it A, Ayrton Senna? B, Michael Schumacher? Or C, Mika Hakkinen?


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[Assistant] The competition is open from midnight on Wednesday the 18th of December 2019 and closes at midnight on the 8th of January 2020.


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[Assistant] If you're listening to this episode after the closed date, I'm really sorry, but you're too late and any entry you make will not be counted.


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[Assistant] Entry to this competition is free and full. Terms and conditions can be found at f1.com slash Bose competition. So for your chance to win a pair of these smart headphones, just answer this question. In the episode of Beyond the Grid with Alex Albon back in September,


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[Assistant] The Red Bull rookie revealed his childhood racing hero, but who was it? Was it Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher or Mika Hakkinen?


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[Assistant] Wishing you very good luck. Those headphones are something else.


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[Assistant] The fan car only won one race, the Swedish Grand Prix in the hands of Niki Lauda. How come, I hear you say? Well, because Brabham boss Bernie Eccleston withdrew the car after the race.


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[Assistant] Why? Well why indeed. But the story highlighted what an extraordinary man and what an extraordinary career Bernie had. Not that he sees his achievements as the godfather of Formula One as anything special. So final question, what's your legacy? Don't have one. Really? You think you don't have a legacy?


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[Assistant] I think he really means it too, and I guess it's that humble approach that kept him working so hard and for so long into his 80s, even when he had multiple millions in the bank.


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[Assistant] Now a man who never drove for Bernie, but was a long time rival, is Mario Andretti. The living legend that is Mario Andretti.


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[Assistant] He and I sat down at Indianapolis in May and he had me hanging off his every word for more than an hour.


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[Assistant] He had endless stories, both of the good and the bad, and it's his memories of Monza 1978 that we're going to touch on now. He won the world title for Lotus at that race, but his teammate and friend Ronnie Peterson was tragically killed as well.


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[Assistant] Mario's ability to move on from such tragic circumstances was a reminder that racing drivers were and remain a bit different to the rest of us. And this was a topic that James Allison, the tech boss of Mercedes talked about so eloquently in his podcast, specifically when talking about the time he first


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[Assistant] I love that story and it told us so much about the compassionate side of Hamilton as well.


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[Assistant] Now someone who might have used the word fuckers to describe his rivals was 1980 world champion Alan Jones. AJ was one of F1's tough guys. He was a hard man on and off the racetrack and he still doesn't mince his words to this day.


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[Assistant] AJ and I caught up in Melbourne at the season opening Australian Grand Prix, and his Aussie-isms had me in stitches from start to finish. As did Daniel Ricciardo in fact, especially when talking about his relationship with his three-year-old nephew.


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[Assistant] What a joy it is to talk to that man. He must be such a cool uncle, and he seems to get more colourful and more outrageous with age, and we love him for it.


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[Assistant] Talking of age, let's hear now from Tony Brooks. He's the second oldest living Formula One race winner who did battle and often beat the greats of the 1950s like Juan Manuel Fangio and Sterling Moss.


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[Assistant] The respect between the drivers during such a dangerous era was palpable, but it was clear to Tony who the benchmark was. There's two names I wanted to ask you about. Uhm, you've mentioned Sterling, Sterling Moss on several occasions. Just, how good was Moss?


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[Assistant] Many times, five times was Fangio. Yes. You think he was the best driver you ever raced?


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[Assistant] Great versatility, but what made, what stood him apart? What made him so good?


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[Assistant] And what was your personal relationship like with Angio?


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[Assistant] From one old time legend to another, let's sign off from this best of 2019 with the 96 year old voice of Formula One, Murray Walker.


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[Assistant] Many F1 fans grew up listening to Murray's F1 broadcasts and he was beyond the grid's chosen subject when F1 celebrated its 1000th race at the Chinese Grand Prix earlier this year. Murray has witnessed all 1000 races and to hear him count down to the start of a race in the closing moments of the podcast left me with goosebumps. Over to you Murray.


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[Assistant] So watch the lights, it's five lights, four lights, three lights, two lights, one light, go, go, go! And I'll go. Murray, thank you very much.


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[Assistant] What a way to finish. But sadly folks, that's it. You'll be on the grid. Christmas hamper is now empty.


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[Assistant] I hope you enjoyed hearing these highlights as much as I did. And if it whetted your appetite, why not delve into the back catalogue yourself and relive some of the best moments from Season 2. And why stop there? Season 1 is still available to listen to as well and features some stellar guests.


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[Assistant] Before we go, I also wanted to say a big thank you for your feedback about last week's episode with Daniel Ricciardo. He's very popular with you guys. And Graham Warwick got in touch via Twitter to say this. Finally managed to listen to the latest episode with Daniel Ricciardo. Worth the wait. Possibly the nicest, most open and most honest man on the grid. Think we need an update from him every six months.


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[Assistant] Well it's hard to disagree with you, Graham. Dan is indeed great value.


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[Assistant] Well that's it for now, thank you for listening and don't worry, Beyond the Grid will be back in 2020 and we have some huge plans for the podcast, so watch this space. And a big thank you to everyone who's made the show such a big success. And that of course includes all of you wonderful listeners.


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[Assistant] For now though, happy holidays and see you in the new year. Beyond the Grid is produced by F1 in association with Audioboom. Until next time, keep it flat out.


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[Assistant] My introduction to Lewis was unusual to say the least. And, uh, but it was revealing about him in a way that has had an important bearing on our, his and my relationship since. So my first encounter with him.


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[Assistant] And we'd been introduced in the morning, shaking hands and made the sort of looking forward to working with you type noises. And then he'd gone off to do his thing. I'd gone off to do mine. And we didn't, we didn't bump into each other until mid morning of that day where he had


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[Assistant] Going around the track and he'd had quite a big moment in turn four where back had come loose and he'd kept his foot down and caught it and carried on.


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[Assistant] And he came up to me and said, hey, did you see, did you see that moment in turn four? And I was thinking,


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[Assistant] And so I rather unwisely said, yeah, I did see it. But the thing that, the thing that always amazes me about you fuckers is that you come back for more of it the next lap. And in my mind, that was a sort of way of acknowledging.


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[Assistant] In an indirect way that they are unusual people, that they do a dangerous thing.


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[Assistant] And a little bit later in the day, well, towards that evening, Toto came up to me and said, ah, yeah, uh, James Lewis said you were pretty rude to him earlier. And I knew what he was talking about. Um, but I also knew I hadn't been rude. I might have been ill judged, but I wasn't rude. I make ill judgments and.


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[Assistant] And I said, okay, I know what that was. I wasn't trying to be rude. I'll put it right. Don't worry. I'll go and have a chat with him. We didn't have an opportunity to talk to each other for the...


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[Assistant] For the next day or so and the first time we did come across each other was back in the factory and he and I sort of bumped into each other and I and we sort of trigger downstairs.


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[Assistant] I sort of explained where I was coming from, uhm, and, and said, but don't worry, you know.


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[Assistant] Ever said to you, and I thought yeah, probably was, but, uh, but what, what then surprised me, and this is, this is really the part of the story that is, is much, you know, is properly revealing of Lewis.


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[Assistant] Is that he, he said to me, look, I haven't had a chance to say until now, but I just want to say how sorry I was about your wife who had sadly died.


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[Assistant] of anyone you love is a massive thing. And it, it runs around your head. It still runs around my head today. There will not be 10 minutes of my life where I haven't thought of Becca since then. And it runs around your head continually.


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[Assistant] And very few other people even remember that it happened.


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[Assistant] Wanna talk about or not, but I'm, I just needed to say it and I told him what I just told you about the fact that it's lovely when people do. And, and he, he took the conversation on a little bit and said, I hope that you find some way of learning to live with it. And I hope that in, in good time you'll.


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[Assistant] Bring it to a close in a grateful sort of way. And I said, well, I would dearly hope so too.


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[Assistant] You know, that happy future that you set out, uhm, that would require me to actually start talking to a girl and I'm pretty rubbish at that. And, uh, and he looked at me and he smiled and he went, well, maybe just don't call them fuckers.


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[Assistant] Six months to a year after I quit my job probably. Maybe a year to two years. Before I quit my job it was a fun side gig.


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[Assistant] My wife saw this and thought, I think this has long term real potential. Tell you what, Ian, you quit your job and I will take over all the household expenses because she was working full time.


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[Assistant] Where are these women in my life? Arizona. There's a hitch. The hitch was when it became successful, I had to hire her away from her job. But so I looked at this and I'm like, that's a great deal. Cause I'm never going to have to make good on that promise. Cause I, I don't see it being like.


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[Assistant] So that's really, there is that leap of faith moment in any sort of entrepreneurial endeavor.


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[Assistant] Interesting firearms. So, some modern stuff, yeaah. Actually, I'm extremely excited about the 8.6. I think it's a really cool concept. Uhm, a lot of modern stuff is not particularly novel in any way.


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[Assistant] Which is fine, it doesn't have to be, in many cases, not being novel is a benefit. If you're trying to build something for a specific purpose and make it work commercially and economically, you don't have to reinvent the wheel to do it.


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[Assistant] Uh, no, that was a different one. Similar problem. No, Sullivan was telling me they were experimenting with some spooky thing. It was a werebell. They wanted a remote controlled one. So they got one of those Mac briefcases and they hooked up a garage door opener remote and a solenoid to the trigger. And, and they're out at the range and they're going to test it. And all right, here we go.


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[Assistant] A group of those guys, like Atchison, John Foote, and you see their work sort of show up, like the Bushmaster assault rifles from Foote, but it's that period where there are still a few people who have some first hand knowledge of it who are there, but there's like nothing written.


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[Assistant] It's hard to, I'd love to try and dig into some more of that. Cause some of what those guys were doing was crazy weird stuff.


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[Assistant] You've seen so many of them. If only it were that easy. And yeah, my, kind of my answer to that is I've, I've seen enough of these stories that I know how hard it is and how likely it is to succeed. And that's like, I see those odds. I don't want to put a ton of my time into the project with those odds.


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[Assistant] A few. Uhm, honestly, one of the biggest ones is Neo Fidu, that South African guy. Like, he is criminally underappreciated and just in a bad place for any of his cool ideas to get to a market.


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[Assistant] There are a few of those I occasionally try to, like, try to pull some string and get something to happen and it...


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[Assistant] It's the quintessential intermediate cartridge, but in the existing bore diameter. Like instead of the German 8mm. And the 8-Kurz is a terribly designed round. It's way too big in diameter. Because they were just taking 8-Mauser and shortening it, essentially. Because that's easier than trying to design a whole new round from the ground up.


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[Assistant] And the other thing about the FAMAS is usually if there's a gun that's hard to find and they're rare and they're exotic and they're cool and I'm interested in them, there's usually a very good reason that it's not common. It usually is actually.


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[Assistant] Terrible. And the FAMAS was really fun in that it's actually a great gun. It's limited in today's environment because there's no good way to put optics on it.


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[Assistant] But if you were to tell me to pick an iron sighted intermediate, you know, assault rifle, I would take the M16A1 first, but the FAMAS probably number two.


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[Assistant] Uhm, not bad by bullpup standards. Frankly, compared to a lot of the old mil-spec M16s, pretty comparable. Completely ambidextrous. You can swap the bolt, the ejection, to left-handed without any spare parts.


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[Assistant] Yeah, every, everything you need to swap it is already built into the gun. You literally, so the inside of the bolt face is a removable part, and it's got an extractor and a dummy extractor.


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[Assistant] And you pull the thing out and you swap the two, and then there's a cover plate on the receiver. Swap. So, or on the butt plate. The receiver itself has two ejection ports cut, and then the plastic butt plate covers one of them. And you just swap the cover to whichever side you want. The safety's ambidextrous, the charging handle's on the top, and ambidextrous.


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[Assistant] Uh, there's two extractors, one ejector. The ejector's six o'clock. The extractors are like ten and two.


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[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, it's, recoil impulse is nice, handling is beautiful, the iron sights are really good. Like, I took that thing to a practical match and I was making silo, like, many ipsic silhouette hits at 400 meters in open terrain with it. With the irons. Uhm, the bipod on that thing is free floated.


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[Assistant] That's not something you realize until you pull it apart, and you're like, there's this receiver extension that supports the handguard, and in turn supports the bipod, and it's mounted essentially to the chamber, and the barrel's free floated inside that thing.


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[Assistant] Yes, I think largely because of where it was made. Like if you'd given it to...


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[Assistant] The Brazilians to make it would have been fairly cheap, but you're talking about making it in France in the sixties, seventies. Cost of labor is high. Yeah. Um, that's the thing. Like when there was a period of time when FN owned a Saint-Etienne.


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[Assistant] And that's, the reason that there are no real commercial, like no military exports of the FAMAS is that the, the, oh, the corporate group that owned FN bought Saint Etienne.


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[Assistant] And so then they've got two, two rifles that fulfill the same role competing against each other, the FAMAS and the FNC. And the FNC was the much more economical gun to make.


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[Assistant] The FAMAS, that's not the part of Santa Chan they were interested in. And they didn't want it competing against the FNC.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. I mean, they sold a lot of them. Like, if you weren't comparing it to the FAL, it'd be a very successful gun. But compared to the FAL...


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[Assistant] Well, it's a few countries, but then there were two or three countries that made it under license, and the countries that did buy it bought like 50 or 100,000 of them. Oh wow. Yea, that's a lot. Oh yea.


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[Assistant] And there's that. They sold one to the LAPD apparently.


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[Assistant] Uhm, I actually met James when I started doing some work for Vickers Guide.


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[Assistant] And what happened was, I was helping Larry Vickers on, I think it was the World War II, the first volume of World War II German.


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[Assistant] Uhm, because like I know some stuff about some of that. And so they hired me to write some sections of the book.


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[Assistant] And to come help do the photography. Because, uh, having done it now especially, there's a lot of physical effort that goes into actual gun photography. Of moving the guns in and out, up and down, we're going through, we're doing a lot of volume of photography in a day or two.


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[Assistant] And there was also an element of, like, I'm helping to advise on what do we want detailed pictures of.


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[Assistant] So, uh, part of the deal was, like, I'm gonna get paid by Vickers Guide, I'm gonna come help write some of the book, and I'm gonna help out with the photo shoots. And so I'm sitting there on a photo shoot with James, and this is about the time that I've started writing my own book on French rifles.


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[Assistant] And at the time my goal was I wanna be, I wanna have a book published by collector grade.


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[Assistant] That's, that's my bucket list thing. Like who's, what's the most prestigious publisher in this field at the time? Yeah, collector's grade. Yeah, I mean, behind you there's several.


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[Assistant] Yeah, can you imagine a better group, like a more prestigious group of authors to be in? Like, it's...


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[Assistant] Dolph Goldsmith and I have the same publisher, you know. That kind of thing. What a nice guy. But, Blake Stevens dies.


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[Assistant] And I talked to some of the other publishing companies, Schiffer and Wet Dog, Anthony Vanderlinden, and just none of them are a good fit. Like Vanderlinden's not looking for new books.


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[Assistant] Shiffer maybe, but like, I kinda wanted to do something fancy, something really cool, high quality. Like a Vickers guide. So I'm, like, I'm griping about this to James while we're doing photography, and it occurs to us...


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[Assistant] That's our second book, yeaah. Second, this is the second one? Second one we published, uhm, that is written by Jonathan Ferguson, who is the keeper of arms and artillery at the Royal, British Royal Armouries, which is definitely the best job title ever.


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[Assistant] So anyway, we're talking about it and like, it occurs to us that I have, I'm doing a manuscript. James is doing photography. James has the, the knowledge infrastructure of how to do book publishing. Like, let's, uh, why don't we do this ourselves?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So cool. You just don't get that everywhere. Exactly. Spine hubs. Yeah, I love it. I'm really happy with what we've put together. But it occurs to us, like, we don't need, I don't need to use a publishing company. Like, we can come up with our own. We'll just make our own. Strippers and Coke. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, uh, and we also, so we also have Nick Jensen-Jones who got involved with us as an editor. Uh, so we have basically- Where is he from? Uh, he is Australian. I don't know him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what makes him an expert? Uhm, he is a small, modern small arms researcher, and he's done a lot of conflict, uh, conflict zone small arms reporting and research. Oh, okay, yeaah. Like, you wanna know what guns are being trafficked in Libya during the Libyan Civil War.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, very talented. So the three of us together are like, yeah, between us, we've got all the skills to make the, well, I think we should have called it like literally the world's best publishing company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yea, it starts off because I'm working with Rupley, uhm, on a Vickers guidebook.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I don't know why no one else bothers to do them, but you can make a book that has great info and great pictures and just good production quality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, third book is Pistols of the Warlords, which is on Chinese warlord era domestic handguns that are just- I gotta get that one. So much weird. Uhm, so I'll give you the scoop. I have just heard yesterday evening, I think those books are shipping from the printer next week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, when this publishes, I'm not sure, they may have already shipped by the time people see this, but, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that'll be available as soon as it gets over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, when people complain about supply chain nonsense, I totally understand now. Like, we tried to publish that book in the US initially. Oh, you did? Yeah, Shaspota Famas, we published in the US. We went back to that printer, uh, and asked them for a quote for the Warlord Pistol book. And they declined to even give us a quote. They didn't even want to try it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, through our agent trying to find other printers, we, we determined that there is in fact literally not enough paper in North America for us to print that book here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we just put in, we just sent off to the printer our fourth book, which is on Japanese Imperial Swords. And that book, we have a five month wait to get the paper to print it. Wow. Like, it's, it's so strange. When we did Shas Bota Famas, these kind of issues would have been, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not a- like this isn't conceivably a problem we're gonna run into. Like really, not enough paper?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So hopefully it'll clear up by the time we have the next one or two ready to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. Uhm, some of it is what I personally am interested in. That's the French and the Chinese Warlord pistols. We had, the Warlord pistol book was spurred by having access to a huge, like the best worldwide collection of those pistols.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's a guy in the US who spent 35 years collecting Chinese warlord pistols. Like, he would literally buy every single one of them he ever found.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so, uh, short version is the Qing dynasty, the imperial dynasty in China runs until 1911, when there is the Chinese Revolution.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, which is intended to, like, westernize China. In fact, Sun Yat-sen, Dr. Sun Yat-sen, one of the original guys who ran the revolution, American educated, huge fan of the U.S. Constitution, he wanted to turn China into a country on the model of the United States. He did a great job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He did a decent job. The problem was, uhm, power corrupts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shortly before, well in like the 10-20 years before the revolution, the Chinese government had decided to modernize its military, but in order to save money, they had all the individual provinces essentially fund their own new armies. So think of it as, like the US, we don't have an army, but we have all the National Guards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so as soon as the central government falls apart and there's a power struggle, every province has an army that is loyal to its general.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And nobody else. So what you end up with, the short version, what you end up with is like the U.S. Civil War, except there are, uh, instead of two sides, there are like twelve sides. And it goes for twenty years. And all of the alliances shift.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You might have a battle, and one side win, or it was kinda equally common that one side would bribe the other side's general.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or as, you know, an officer at some level, and just have troops defect to the other side.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause the troops were loyal to the officers, not to a nation or a principle. And so it's like, it's an incredibly complicated period of time to try and study.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There were half a dozen really significant western-style arsenals in China at that time that had been put together. Like the idea was this national army, each province or series or set of provinces, is going to be able to do its own arms production and training and ammunition production. So there are a bunch of arsenals set up and of course,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All these warlords keep, you know, now they'll do their own arms production to keep this war going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the factories were generally pretty good quality, especially the ones set up with a lot of Western tooling and Western engineering assistance. But you also have a lot of small-scale shops making guns. And actually, probably the most interesting bit, and you'll appreciate this, factories gonna get an order for 50,000 rifles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you set up a production line, right? And you do western style, the American style of manufacture. You're going to make interchangeable parts, you're going to make


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, pistols are far less important to these army structures. It's a lot of enlisted troops and just a handful of officers, and the pistols are...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ornamental really. And so they'll get 50,000 rifles ordered and 50 pistols maybe. So do you set up a production line for 50 pistols?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that efficient? Like you run a gun factory. No. No. What they did is they take like the 10 best gunsmiths


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And okay, during the time when we're making these rifles, each one of you guys needs to make five pistols or ten pistols. And so every pistol is handmade.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they, and to whatever level of quality that gunsmith is capable of. And some of them are really good, some of them are maybe not so good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so every one of these pistols is different. Like you can see that the basic structure is the same, but the fine details, every single pistol is different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they had a lot of indigenous designs. Some of them are copies of mostly FN-1900s and C96 Mausers. But then they'd come up with all their own indigenous designs. They'd, you know, they're blowback pistols, it's not that complicated. But they'd pull elements from C96 and FN stuff. Like, I have an FN-1900 with a hammer on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The hammer doesn't do anything. It doesn't move. It is a milled part of the slide. But it looks like, kinda looks like a C96 hammer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, guns have hammers. They're selling these to people who have no gun culture history and experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He had somewhere between 250 and 300 of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was, so that was the bulk of what we photographed for the book. There were a couple other smaller collections that I was able to handle, or at least get pictures of, including a couple of small ones in universities in China.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was, what I was able to determine from the other collections is this one guy's collection encompassed everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have basically no records about any of this stuff. We don't know exactly who, when, where.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or why, you know, or who they made them for, that kind of thing. But I know that there are basically no major types of Warlord pistols that are not covered by this guy's collection.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, I've got access to this collection. We're like, this is, this is a book. This collection's gonna disperse, and it'll probably never be assembled together in the same place again. Nobody knows anything about these guns. We don't have records, but if we do essentially an art catalog with the information that we can put together,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With that many of them, you can categorize the guns. Where normally you're looking at one or two or three or maybe ten. But even with ten, you don't have context. You don't know if what you're looking at is common or uncommon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what we were able to do is divide the Chinese domestic designs into like six or seven specific models. And you can see the similarities. And now you can take any one gun that you run into by itself, and you can say, oh, this is Type C.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's our third book. Uhm, and that's, like, that's one that I put together because I had access to the stuff and I found it interesting. Thornycroft is a manuscript that we got from Jonathan. Like, he is a British firearms curator who's interested in guns. Uhm, he wrote that book and we published it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, fourth book is Japanese Swords. That's another one that we got the manuscript from a serious collector of Japanese Imperial Swords. So those are our two sources, like either, for headstamp either I write it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or it's a manuscript submission we get from someone on the outside. So we can't always predict what our subject matter is going to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so often there's some piece of the story that, you know, you're looking at a gun and you're like, why on earth did they do this incredibly stupid thing? Well, there's almost always context for it. Yeah. Like, why did they get HK to rebuild all the guns?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, British Aerospace owned HK. It was a British company, not a German company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well the mags were made by Radway Green and I think they were made out of like recycled pie pans. They are the crappiest AR mags you've ever seen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, they spend all the time on a reliable good magazine. As long as you don't leave it in the rain and let the follower rest to the body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To me, the fundamental core of what makes that book interesting is the variety and completeness of your Maxim silencer collection. Maxim was, he invented the thing. Like, literally he invented the silencer. He invented the silencer that's on the back of your car too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and there's, again, there's just nothing written about those. Oh yea, we photographed some for the book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, some actual Maxim industrial engine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there's nothing written out there. It's such a fundamental part of firearms history, uh, or a foundational part of firearms history, but no one knows anything. So let's find out more, and then let's take that through...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think what we're going to primarily cover are, uh, technological developments in silencers, which frankly there aren't that many. And then military application of silencers. And we've kind of got a series of general eras, and Maxim is the first.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maxim originates it, and then the Maxim era pretty much ends with 1934.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When the NFA puts a $200 tax on what was essentially a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two to eight dollar item. It's dead. And it dies so completely that the US does very little with silencers in World War II. We have a few things for OSS. There's the, some of the 22 pistols, there's the Grease gun, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really, like, not much. Frankly, the Russians do way more than we do. The Germans do way more than we do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then, by Vietnam, like, you have a second wave of American silencers in Vietnam. With Psyonix, uh, with Warbel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that sort of, I feel like that reinvigorates the industry. And then you kind of transition into a global war on terror period where the military actually starts seriously looking at silencers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and it's around that time that the internet makes these.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we get to the present day where they're becoming really pretty commonplace.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In today's day and age, we don't think that we'll ever actually lose knowledge. Like there's nothing that they could do a hundred years ago that we just can't figure out. But for silencers, that's kinda what happened. Like in 34,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's stupid that there are NFA items in the first place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, yeaah. Maybe, like long term, we really ought to fix that. But. Yeaah. Yeaah, I mean. That'll be possible to happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If they were invented today, they wouldn't be banned, they'd be required. Like you'd get fined for going out shooting without a silencer because it's a health hazard and it's a nuisance and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You told me a great story about going to the range once, uh, with a girlfriend and having the guy on the next lane at an indoor range shooting like a 300 win mag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what you told me was, you're like, this thing was just so incredibly obnoxious that you, you'd finally stop, went over and talked to the guy and you're like, look, if I give you a silencer, will you stop shooting that thing? Yeah. And he's like, uh, and like front of the range, the sales counter, you're like, I make these pick one. Stop shooting while we're here. Yeah. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in that case, it's prohibited. Not strictly, but yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to predict at that point. We've done all the photography for it. So it's easy. All I have to do now is write it. I would like to get most of it written in the next couple of months, but I don't want to go out there and guarantee that. We do have some other books that are in the works that may come through first, so... Anything that you can say? What are they?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Does anyone listen to this? Not that many people. Alright, so no one listens to this, so I can say it. J.N. Thomas' parents, pretty much. Uh, so that the other book that I'm working on personally right now is on Finnish small arms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That one's gonna take a while. The other one that we have coming up quickly, I think, is on collier revolvers, which are the first revolvers to where, like, where the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Colt should have lost, but Colt had really good lawyers and Collier had terrible lawyers and so the good lawyers won instead of the truth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, we have an author, a guy by the name of Ben Nicholson, who has been studying these guns exhaustively. He's a really cool academic guy. He's been studying them for years and years and years, and has a fantastic manuscript. It will be...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The last word on Collier's. Uhm, we're looking at, it's, I think it's gonna be two volumes and about 700 pages. Oh wow. Yeah. A lot of content. Yes. Someone that's passionate about that. And massively well researched, academically stringent, really good content on some really interesting guns that people aren't very familiar with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's the other one that's, like, it's, the thing's written, it's just in the editing process right now, and we'll see how the timing works out between that and the silencer book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, Warlord gun, pistols, books. We did the pre-sale an embarrassingly long time ago now, but, uhm, we're probably looking at, I expect about two months on the water for them to get here. So, uh, late summer, early fall, we should be shipping those.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll make a formal announcement once we actually have a specific delivery date, which hopefully will be in a week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Headstamppublishing.com is our website. When we do pre-sales, we'll do like a month-long pre-sale on Kickstarter. Once the Kickstarter campaign ends, we still offer the books for pre-sale on our website.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the last version. Uh, so yeah, coverage is gonna be, I'm gonna do rifles, pistols, submachine guns, light machine guns. So everything. Everything. It's gonna be, now Finland used like every gun on the planet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I am going to cover in the book ones that were either manufactured or mechanically modified in Finland.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I'm going to cover all the Mosins, I'm going to cover the Finnish Lugers. Because they re-barreled them, they made some changes to sights and grips and stuff. But I'm not going to cover, say, the Carcanos, the Chauchats, uh, Browning High Powers. You know, those are guns where Finland bought some, and the most they would ever do is stamp S.A. on the gun. They bought Chauchats? Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, yeaah. In fact, most of the shoshas in the US are Finnish surplus ones. Really? Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I mean, it just goes on. Like, they used Beretta 34s, and Beretta 1915s, and Browning Highpowers, and literally everything that was out there that they could get their hands on, they bought. And there's too much of that for me to try and cover it all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, so the primary issue rifle is the, the M62, which we call the Valmet here. It's an HA derivative. However, so Finland has a massive reserve contingent, reserve army. They have mandatory conscription and they have reserve service.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they have, so they have to have a war stock of, what if we mobilize everyone? We need like 400,000 guns. And they don't have that many Valmets. Uh, in, when the wall came down, they actually bought a ton of East German surplus AKs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because they were cheap, and those are the guns that go into the war reserve in case of basically Russian invasion, which is the only thing the Finnish military exists to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, so they have the M62s, they have an RK95? So I should say RK is the Finnish abbreviation for like, assault rifles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's, you could call it RK62 or M62 for model. Uhm, the model 95 rifles are sort of a vaguely product improved version. They added a rifle grenade launcher, different folding stock and optics mount.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Their special forces guys are kinda doing the standard thing that NATO does. Yep. 416s, ARs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, they're machine guns, they have a domestic, uh, it's a copy of the Czech 5257 of all things. That's the KVKK-62. And they have, or had PKs, PKMs. Uhm, and then I think they've got FN mags. I'm not, not as strong on the current use stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they just adopted a .308AR as a designated marksman's rifle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh really? Yeah, that, uh, Tikka or Sokka are going to be making.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, right now, I think it is FNDAs. They adopted the FN double action in 1980. They might have replaced it with Glocks by now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's currently an arms procurement program that they're doing, uhm, in tandem with Sweden. And I think they're both going to adopt the same new rifle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is really interesting to read a detailed history of Finland, especially after 1945. They walked such a knife edge through the whole Cold War of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, they wanted economic ties to the West, but they were dependent on keeping Russia at bay, like diplomatically at bay. They had to keep Russia happy, or Russia could just walk in and turn them into the Finnish Socialist Republic, like all the other Balkan states.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they had some prime ministers who did a really good job of just that balancing act back and forth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Convincing Russia that they're not a threat to Russia and at the same time building economic ties with the West where there's, you know, actual money. Food.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm on TactileDistributors.com right now, trying to get more of these Neptune pants, 4.0's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The skinnies or the slims, I don't know what they are, but they're sick. So I need more. Unpossible 15 gets you 15% off at checkout.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just go in there, get whatever you want, they have everything. You know where else to get you? Where else to get me?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Different career field, but uhm, we had a lot of SEER washouts. So in the Air Force you can go to become a SEER instructor. It's a career field. Uhm, we had a lot of washouts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, so you become a SEER Specialist, so I think you participate in the SEER schools, and then eventually you become, as you advance through your career, you become an instructor. But, uhm, and that is just a career field. And... Sounds like a horrible job. Some dudes like it. Yeaah, if you want to bully people. Garanthum, Garanthum was a SEER Specialist before he transitioned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we had a lot of washouts, uh, that washed out because of sewing. Uhm, it's part of their, it's part of their tech school and you only get a couple of chances.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well no, this is for seer. This is for them doing whatever the fuck they need to do. And so a lot of guys would wash out at that point. We had a bunch in my unit that washed out for sowing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was going to say, in ranger battalion, I'm not sure what years you were there, but what were you guys carrying?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the time you got up there, I assumed that they'd been using cans already for a bit and you just were unaware of it. Cause I'm trying to think, like I think Gary Gordon's rifle had a can on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. It just made me think, cause when you were talking about, you had been testing stuff, blah blah blah, like, it made me think, I wonder how long they'd been using them. Cause I was sitting here thinking about it, I'm like, I think Gary Gordon's rifle had a can on it. He did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just crazy to think of the development over time, like, you reach a period of time, late 90s, early 2000s, where, okay, cans are more acceptable, or we're gonna start using them more, then you get that new platform, and everyone's like, fuck a can, get it, get off. Uhm, to then now, where they're a standard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The only thing that I'm thinking of is like, what, were you guys running like Peltors at this point? Like, cause I'm just thinking like, if I'm inside with all my friends and we're all touching off short rifles, I'm going to be bombed. Unless, I mean, even like, I would assume you guys have Peltors at this point, or active hearing pro.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fuck. I mean, we were in the plains of Africa, and there's nothing around, and being around guns going off, I'm like, this sucks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, yeaah. So. It's, it's a headache. Now being inside of a mud house with all my friends too. Fuck that. I used to tell guys like, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Were you, I heard you guys talking before, were you running 1911s at this time or had you switched to Glocks or?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was going to say a lot of the group guys talk about carrying Glock 19s in there and like can't eat pouches and shit just because they had to have them with them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he, I'm sure, at the time was he still running around going crazy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you ever run into any issues coming back onto, I mean, I'm not sure if you guys were at FOBs or whatever, but like I know dudes that, there were like SF dudes that would roll up in, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would think too with night vision and thermal, like, you're talking about, uhm, similarly to how...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, but then think about how quickly they reacted to that, where you get guys covering themselves with blankets at night and all that kind of stuff, like how quickly they react to, once they figured it out, they went, well, we can't, we can't, we have nothing equal to this, but we can figure out ways to combat it, which is insane.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Successes came out of Afghanistan over those 20 years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. Well, I mean, you compare that to Iraq, like, a couple hundred guys, or 150 guys, completely took over the entire country in 120 days, basically, in Iraq.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just an entirely different, entirely different animal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. I'm curious to see about the, the Finland stuff too, cause Finland finally is like, we're gonna, we're applying to the, to the, or to NATO. He was like, if you sign up for NATO, it's on. Cause I mean, he's right there, Finland's right there. And Finland's fucked Russia up a couple times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the craziest thing that I've seen and granted, who knows the reality of it, but it seems like their ability as a, as a one major force is completely different than what everyone anticipated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, uh, Thomas, a master of that thing and he and Jay are boyfriends and Jay's out there. He's like, Hey, Jay, take it for a spin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then Jay does and abruptly crashes it into a million pieces. Immediately. Instantly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then so destroys our brand new drunk. We had to save up for cause there's a lot of money. I think we're on a payment point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that he's like, you know, I'm in the air force. It's in my blood. And like, you know, I was getting a plane. He's like, I want to be your pilot. Send me to school to a bit pilot. And I was like, thought you were an air force. So I got built bombs, but I really should be a pilot. And he crashes the drone and that's his thing. It's in my blood. Yeah. We put out a podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, it's a, and this was another one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mustangs of New Jersey. So can you see it? Is this the right button?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He tries to tell us on the podcast, there's 80,000 wild horses in New Jersey, more than any other state in the union. And we're like, bullshit. So go ahead and tell yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This reddit generation, they think everything they read in the first line of the internet is true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it looks, it looks like the one back there sort of on the G3. And they also, cause I was thinking, I just figured it was originally for the blank adapter. But yeah, you guys always sold it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Depends on what you're trying to do. The things they were putting on at the time, I believe, you know, they were probably thinking like whether it's the blank adapter or the flash hider, alignment's not a huge issue, but they do hold a very tight tolerance here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For most companies doing this, not the right way to do it and depends. Like I don't like to push down and just locks into place stuff. Cause you end up with moving parts. You end up with a spring, things that get heavier and you don't get quite the alignment that you can, uh, with other systems.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there were some systems where it was still a threaded piece and you loosened it and it slides over and you pull it forward and it tightened, it was threads and it would hold it tight with this taper. That's a pretty smart way of doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Excuse me. I don't think we would do this now. Yeaah. But, you know, like I have questions too. Like, the barrel, this is Parkerized, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this thing's got a fluted chamber, which we need to talk about, but like, why is this painting?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeah, I guess parkerizing too. I mean, they could have just parkerized the whole thing. I don't, it always seemed weird that they, cause I think this is probably parkerized, I believe under that paint, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, as far as I know, those were the differences.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, you, so the regular one you would get this, we call it, I don't know. The SCF. The SCF. Correct. So I'm sure that means something in German.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So a bunch of German shooting here. So, but, you know, this selector, I don't know, this whole design was pretty cool because that comes right out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you can pull the whole trigger pack out and everything. Um, that was cool, but not anima dexterous. And this, yeah, both sides. And then this also has the, um, this became super trendy and you weren't cool if you didn't have the bullet markings on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It makes way more sense than putting gliders. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. So that was cool and that's still, but that's a little more difficult cause you gotta get the selector apart to take it out, but it was way better than that three shot burst back. Trying to be an armorer for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Start off. There you go. HK armor. There you go. 1997, class of 97 right here. Bam.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. So that's cool stuff. Yeah. That's the Navy one, but you're right. The threaded barrel. Oh, back in the day when you could, you know, for three grand, you could buy a transferable MP5 that was converted from an HK 94. If you found a Navy barrel with a thread section on their premium, that would have brought like $400.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause I was going to say my 40 or 10 millimeter, one of those might be two shot and once three shot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, shoot, shooting a baby in the background. Yeah. So yeah, zero one 20. So you can tell too, Jay, it's got two holes. So which one's this for?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah. So this is not- It's pretty cool. Yeaah, but it's got like parts and stuff. Yeaah. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, or, me getting this thing on there, I, what the heck. Oh, you know what? Is this for, this might be for 10mm or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let our kid touch it. Yeah, then the wide one, which is cool. Cause it stays cool. And off you out there ripping off all kinds of around. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this gave you a little bit better heat protection if you shut.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeah. I still have this. No, I don't, I'm not sure, but I think these are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is cool. Cause look, it's the way HK, when you ordered their stuff, it would, oh my goodness. So it's like just a Ziploc bag and they would magic marker the part number they would put in there. And this is when you guys went from Benelli to fab arm shotguns. You know what I think these are, Jay? I think these are like million dollar bills in here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, here's some more. Headcorn Coke Defense Inc. Rear Sight Complete MP7 made in Germany. Quantity 1.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, this is the old prior postman, the 15 rounder. Oh, that bullshit 10 rounds. Oh, that's a 10 round. Oh, that was so horrible. So yeah, 10 rounder for the metal mag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why'd they go with the metal mag on those guns? Do you know? As opposed to the... To, uh, to prevent from having to increase the size of the grip.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, I like that. Yeaah. Yeaah, I think it's a mistake in the Glock currently. I think they should go to Steel Mag so you can get more rounds.