[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Families were left behind, local, national families, and they paid the price, and Algeria would descend, a lot of them were married to Algerian women, had families. They wouldn't have the ability to bring them back to, so yea, there was a lot of, a lot of history there, and they definitely didn't agree with De Gaulle's decision, so. And it wasn't just the rep, there were several other regiments.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, a lot of, a lot of people went to, uh, jail and there are some stories of, of worse. But, uh, again, there's no.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, with time, people kind of see the reasoning and the history and the reason for why things occurred.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and I would also say probably at the time, a lot of information wasn't being shared, so they probably just thought they wanted to replace the goal, they didn't necessarily know the history of the reasoning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I think as soldiers we all, certainly I, I respect that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reason behind or what they're doing isn't really a factor, it's more just that they were, they were there, they experienced it and I don't judge. But for me, it was, you know, I didn't know a lot about the allegiance history, certainly France's history. So that was all something new to me. And as I learned, I kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Oh, and those were the pictures that I'd seen in the encyclopedias and stuff was them jumping in, into China, the MFU and then Algeria during the war. And that is what became the BEPS turned into what the rep is today. Oh, a hundred percent. I thought it was cool as.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they were kitted up waiting at the airport. The planes didn't show up. That's, he got to the Air Force General and said, stand down. I know it's, yeah, they were, they were close. It would have been exciting. But yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's quite a, yeah, a handful. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's interesting. I worked in Algeria for years after the military. And again, you know, just seeing some of the spots he talked about when our camp was right next to his camp in Philadelphia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I, for me, history is, is something I'm always so fascinated with. So it's interesting to see and hear and then be in spots and put them all together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so it was like a reset. You miss home, as you do. I mean, at that point it'd been well over a year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, I hadn't achieved obviously what I'd gone there to do. So that check wasn't in the box, but it kind of gave me that reset.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, every week you're typically every week you're, you're jumping and we're at the, um, the airport getting kitted up. This truck pulls up and all these guys jump out and it's a mix of corporal, sergeants, senior NCOs and a lieutenant and a captain. And there are the equivalency of the pathfinders in the British or Canadian system. Uh, in the French system, they're considered, um, pathfinders for the regiment, but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the French military, there's nine airborne regiments in total. One of them is the Legion's rep. So they're part of the battalion. Each regiment has a GCP team and they create the GCP group.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they can work together and support the French special operations command so they can either be working for the regiment as pathfinders or separately as the group supporting


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] French special operations. So I didn't obviously know this at the time. I see them jump out. They seem more relaxed. Like the Legion way is certainly the rep and a common company. It's very, you know, these guys jump out slack, you know, kind of they got their jumpsuits on, they grab the rigs and they're just kind of hanging out. And it seemed to me that the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] NCOs, the officers and the junior ranks were all kind of mingling, which doesn't happen typically or ever in a combat company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so I asked our corporal, you know, who was, uh, who was that? And he said, yeah, that was the GCP. So that was the first time I saw something that was like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I've just joined the first company. Done basic training. We're all going to the first company. This is me showing up. Mr. Rookie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which they sell at the, in fact, the Legion is stake owner in Kronenberg, which is interesting. But that's, you got to show up with your case of beer and hand it over. If you don't, you'll just be going straight back to get your beer. So, but we all know this. So yeah, that's, and Rick, yeah, Rick was good shit. Um, yeah. Yeah. Work hard. Pretty, pretty straightforward. Shut up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes. Well, at this point, I mean, it's infantry. It's a typical army regiment. It's just regimented. Yup. Controlled. Yup. And then...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're living in barracks. 100%. Yep, there's the regiment there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If what we get, you get into, if you want to go out, you have to go through a procedure where you apply for permission. So every day in the morning, if you want to go out at the end of the day, if you're allowed, um, you fill out a form and it's a little square piece of paper. You got to use a ruler to write it straight. If not, they'll just rip it up in front of you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You hand that to your corporal. That goes to your sergeant. Then it goes to the lieutenant. If he approves, he signs it. It goes to the captain. He signs it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it comes back and then at the end of the day, when the work day is over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They give you your tite de permission. You have to get your uniform on because as a legionnaire for the first five years, you can't wear civvies, so you're in uniform. So you get on your uniform, you go down to the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if they, if they catch you out of sorts or.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's jail. So yea, it's, it's seriously controlled. Now, as I said, you know, it's things have lightened up a bit now, but during the time it's, yeah, you didn't want to go for that weekend. Sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, no, it's, it's, and I, you know, that's why I tried to get into that when I mentioned, because as we say, you know, we're young men, you join, there's certain things that you don't necessarily think about when you go there. Like, oh, you know, I want to join the Legion and be a soldier, but you're a young man, you got other objectives too, at the end of the day. And it's not the greatest environment for other objectives, which.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, that's, as I said, that's changed, but I try to get that into the book to show that there's other aspects of the mental game that are there. It's, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sure pushups are getting beasted on and whatever, but there's also...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's other parts to a human being and it's tough sometimes to, to deal or get, get to that, you know. So that's the, the idea behind some of the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Garrison no. Now if you're on leave and you get a three week leave period, you can go off. Theoretically you can't leave France. How much leave do you get a year? Typically about three weeks. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Appreciate it. Then, uh. And that's the challenge of writing and telling the stories. You gotta cover all the things that people don't think about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's the environment too, right? Because when I get to the GCP, which is considered as it's a team thing and the onus is on you to, you gotta, you gotta show up. If you don't show up, you get kicked out of the team and they're not quite as.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's, and that's the system. You know, as you mentioned, obviously your, the seal system is effective and that's the way it is. It weeds out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Legion system has that history where they probably initially had the type of people where you had to be around them all the time. Um, and that's, it's where it is and that's, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As I mentioned, they've, they're kind of lighting up on it now that things have changed and they're busy. They don't have to be quite as stringent on the guys cause of the turnover, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's, it's definitely controlled and that's something you got to keep in mind if you're going to go there, like it's not, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Latitude or options or rooms. They come back and yeah. Yeah. Then you drop the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think in the system too, you see the NCOs, as you rise in rank, your freedoms increase, so then the onus is on you to get there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and obviously that's what the, the lead is looking for is, you know, is NCOs and leaders. So they're hard on you in the beginning, but there's a reason for that. If you want to get to the top, well then put in the time and effort and tell us, show us that you're capable and you'll get those, those freedoms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The size of the wrapper, a lot of legion regiments during that phase were Eastern block, Pollacks and Romanians, Czechs, Slavs, everything. They, they took up a big part of the, the rank. And yeah, exactly. As you say, it was a good, a good option for them considering that the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. You had the mighty AD. I did lesson learned. And I always remember because Benny during basic training had told me where one of his buddies had been shot and is lying in his bed after a patrol and, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, didn't do the same thing, but that's exactly how it happens. And at that point, I had been pulling my weight, um, having the, being blessed and raised as a, you know, an officer's son, whatever. In Europe, we were skiing in the Alps every winter, so I could, I was a good skier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, so I was pulling my weight, not causing, didn't have as many problems. So that part, I think he could tell that I was, I was hard enough on myself. He didn't really say much. What are you going to say?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeah, it was, it was definitely a good lesson for me, a hundred percent. And every time after that, when I, you know, took my mag off, I'm thinking right away, fucking clear, like it just sunk and that's, that's how you learn, right? Make the mistakes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, my fault, I borrowed it on myself. I was trying to leave early, there was a bus scheduled for everyone to leave at, I think it was two or something, and I had this great idea, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That I was going to go out at, skip lunch and just go out and yeah, he put a kibosh to that and walked by the hall when I was bitching about it to my other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Friends and, uh, yeah, came up and just basically, you know, it was quite a bit bigger of a hats off to him. He just had butt to the mouth, which shocked me. Man, my initial reaction was just, you know, guard, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yeah, that's what he looked to the side and took that, you know, those old 1940s French army stools, you know, it's a medal. The way he just took that and he was like, yeah, I'm good. Understood. And that was just like, no factor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, who knows, maybe he had a note for me. I don't know. I don't recall, but, uh, yeah, he checked my, uh, my attitude and noted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The first phase of sniper qualification, it was tiered elite. So it was more learning, it was more of the shooting side of things, the basics, but you would follow up on that and go to the actual sniper course after. So it was a second part of the qualification. So it's split in two and yeah, that was the first part.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I hope they do, uh, but, you know, like. And in my defense, if I may, you know, I'm not a psychopath. I'm not just punching people. There was some history there. Uh huh. And.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] New Legionnaires join the section every week or second week. So we had ample.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But uh, he obviously had an issue with me and that's what I noted. And then, so when I questioned it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Typically his, his response was clearly, you know, pushments in order. I could tell that it's, it's personal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then yeah, the rest is history, but yeah, I certainly regret it. And, um, yeah. And the captain, it was actually the company captain that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It basically told me like who the fuck do you think you are? But saving grace was, and, and the corporal had the same story. He agreed that we both removed our ranks or he had removed his ranks. So I was, you know, typically not at fault, but still my attitude was in question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he was, at the end of the day, he was the corporal. He put on the orders, I cleaned toilets, I just cleaned toilets.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who am I to question his orders? That's his role. Uhm, when I'm in a corporal, I can...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Choose and decide what I want to do, but in that situation he was the, the higher ranking, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Junior rank and, uh, yeah, I was wrong to question it and I was certainly wrong to, to go beyond that. It doesn't, and the, the idea would be like, if that's in a, an operation or things going on, you don't question orders. And that's the idea for ranks and orders is you do something, you do it. Um, there's no room for questioning that just gets people killed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I was, you know, it was a red flag for me as a character thing and certainly as a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, an up and coming soldier within the regiment is you don't, it's just, it was the wrong choice at the end of the day. And I regret it and I could tell right away. And that was just old muscle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, exactly. And something to be said about peacetime army, wartime army is there's those different ways of figuring out who's, who's what and where they should be in the hierarchy of things. And, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, as I said, we, I don't know what, like I say, was made of. He didn't know what I was necessarily made of, but in that situation, you know, I had pulled my weight for the duration that was there and yeah, they came to that and result wrong choice, but you learn


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep, no exactly. And, so I'm in the French Foreign Legion, there's obviously a reason.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That I've gotten there in life. Maybe some of my choices weren't the wisest. So I need to start learning and you know, using this to my advantage, not making the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had to, yeah, trust uniform, wait outside. He called me and I go and present myself and then he basically, you know, asked me what occurred.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the end of that, all the corporals came to me while I was cleaning toilets and said, if you do that again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you'll pay the price. So it was made quite clear that you don't question corporals in the, in the section. Fair enough. Um, and I cleaned those toilets. So, you know, M results and I didn't win. And I jeopardize my, potentially my chance to do selection for the GCP. So I was on all levels down to myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, it doesn't take much. Yeah, I was lucky. Uhm, I told the line pretty good and I'm surprised I didn't go to jail there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But again, the fact that he took his rank off was my saving grace. But yea, if you do anything that's deemed unacceptable,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's different amount of days they can give you, but they have a prison in the regiment and you're basically used as a grounds keep. So you'll do an eight kilometer run every morning to shave your head. You're in combat with your typical, uh, HSE vest and you're basically running around cleaning up the camp and you do that for a week, two weeks, depending on your sentence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's guys I would see that were always in jail. I remember thinking to myself, like, why, why do you come all this way jointly and then spend your time in jail? Like it's just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, so that's the big ones you gotta do a 30k run with rucksack, gear, helmet, and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So each combat company in the regiment, there's five now when I was there, there's four. But uhm, based on your performance within the section, you can request selection if your lieutenant approves and then your captain approves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 30 odd guys and then the GCP was looking for two new recruits or two new operator, whatever they'll, they'll take what they need based on if it's, you know, medics they need.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Radio comms, whatever. They'll, they'll pick and choose. But you're there based on your performance. So it's not, it's not an open selection. It's, you pulled your weight and you're, you've requested selection, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Obviously I was first company, so we were urban combat night, and I had my, you know, the first part of the sniper course, uh, that was it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that, is that not a big deal? No, no, it's just basic driving qualification. I had my sports monitor course, which doesn't help, but it shows that there's a bit of, oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Put you through the, uh, the test and then figure out, you know, what, uh, what you're made of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not quite boulder weight. So it was again, being consistent across the mark. And then when you start training with the teams, uh, they pick up on, you know, whether or not you're able to pick up on the, the, the lessons are teaching you. And then if you gel with the, with the other guys and that's kind of, I think they're, they're slow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're there first, well, it doesn't really help the last guy, you know, but it shows your, your willingness and it's a mental thing to 30 Ks at the end. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I do, yeaah, I get in, uhm, and they send me off to do my, you have to, minimum rank in the team is corporal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they, they actually pulled me off of the, the selection early, and I thought I was getting the good news, and yea, you're not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More beasting. How really? More beasting and how to beast others.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a bit of leadership. Um, there's, you know, giving orders, drill, that kind of stuff. But yeah, so you go back to, uh, Castel, which is the training regiment for four weeks and, uh, yeah, learned that the trade is a corporal, but it's, yeah, it's heavy on the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The bee sting and the singing, unfortunately. Which I get into. But our training NCO, uhm, was a lunatic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Qualified and good at what he did. What's the name in the book? Uhm, it was, uh, Madri Raira. He had, he had done the commander course and, uh, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Down in South America. Men, uh, I forget the name, but it's renowned as a tough command of course, uhm, uhm, man house. Ever heard? Is it, is it, what country is it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. There's a prisoner of war phase where a lot of guys just lose it. Yeah. They got you in those, you know, Vietnam mirror cages in the water, you know, with no rats swimming around. But still, anyway, some of the guys, it's renowned for its effectiveness, but he had done that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this is, I'm coming back from core work scores. They're already there. I'm not part of the team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Next thing would be my commander course and then my halo course before you're an actual team member in the GCP. So this was a surprise because they're asking me to go to join them. So it's unusual, but it's a good opportunity, but I'm not a team member yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They don't know me either that well. They might have seen me during the pre-selection, but as a person they don't really, they don't know me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Consent of that fact is I'm the new guy. You gotta try not to stick out and not do anything dumb and just, yeah, that was my focus really. And then trying to keep up with what was happening because they had been there a while. So at that point they'd, you know, had some, some contacts and stuff. So they were in the game and I'm just not obviously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a whole different, boom, now you're at a different, it's no more fun and games. They're, you know, theoretically it's, your life's on the line. It's on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Laszko, let me mention Laszkowski, his grandfather was a Polish legionnaire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Married a lady in Indochina, Vietnamese and that's the history of his. So he looks, he's French. He looks, um, Vietnamese with a Polish last name. He's like the, all of it in one, the Legionnaire with the history. But, um, yeah, that situation was definitely, you know, I'm thrown into the den learning curve, lack of training, uh, lack of experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Turned out well, but again, lesson learned and took that with me to the next job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, different learning curve there. Everything's new. But soldiering, at least I'm learning the trade. And that's part of, you know, becoming a soldier and growing as a young man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's what I'm, I'm seeing, what I'm made of, what I'm capable of. Some of it's good, some of it's bad, but growing up is learning and taking with that or with from that what you can.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think I'm more focused on not fucking up. You know, I'm new to the team. I'm not theoretically a team member yet. I'm just this replacement. Fortunate to be there, but I know eyes are on me. Certainly the captain's watching me as the other guys. I mean, that's key is your, your peers, right? The guys that are with you. Um, so I'm just trying not to screw up. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that, that worked in my favor, albeit, you know, maybe my reaction wasn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Successful and you know, once, once you're, once you're part of a little something, then you're, you gain a little bit of traction with the team. They start to know what you're made of and then continues on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you can never train. I mean that's how you feel too and I mentioned later on is you know, this is where you realize that shit I should have maybe spent a little more time on certain things on the range.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, on the job training isn't necessarily the best system, but that's their system. And that being said too is, you know, I've just come off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not like I just, I was on time off and they throw me into, into bungie. I've been, you know, going full on for almost a year now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so it is what it is and budget is obviously, we don't quite have the same budget or they don't have the same budget as, as a SEAL team obviously and the technology. So they, they make it work. Uhm, and yeah, it seems to, seems to come together. It's not perfect, but it's, that's how their, their system works.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, clearing houses on the range, shoots, all that type of stuff. So I think they're able to, to see the demeanor of the guys and see that you're not a, you know, a twitchy character that you're, you know, you're thinking about things, um, which, you know, would get you into the team. So I was, I wasn't prone to just, you know, going full auto and blah. You know, I was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I was more concerned about, obviously, not fucking up more than.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was no fool. He was obviously there for a reason. So he was, yeah. Um, yeah, I was learning my trade, my craft. Welcome to the combat arms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so we called after the initial, I guess you could call it contact.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We radioed for the rest of the team to come and they came and then we, we crossed the, the avenue. But yeah, it was another, I guess,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Experience in soldiering and the other chance to use my weapon for the first time. Um, and learning from, I guess the time before, you know, there was no second guessing. I knew what I was looking at. Um, and yeah, did my, did my job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think with the cross-training we learn from others the best method of getting the job done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yeah, we'd been training on fire movement and stuff for a while.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No one was injured. Lesson learned for everybody.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's actually, it's an anti-personnel grenade that goes on the end of your, from us and you can shoot it. So it's like a rifle fired. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For, you know, a young, young soldier that's out there to test himself and apply the tools to his trade. This is, this is getting there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was a legit operation. And I'm honored to, you know, a lot of the guys are like, L Y D what told me he was a senior and so he was like, this doesn't happen all the time and you're, you're fortunate to be here. So consider yourself lucky, which I did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. Yeaah. I mean, you got... Then again, all the more on us to pull your weight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The 20 mil account, that's on another position, but it's our signal to go. Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying it's a big coordinated operation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Earlier in the day, French Jaguars had gone over and they had photos of the, uh, of the site, which Captain Rule had. And he basically briefed us there with the pictures we went through. So there was minimal time spent really going over it, but it wasn't complicated. This is straightforward. Yeah. Boom. We're coming in. We all knew our responsibilities and there we go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I don't know how close it was. It was close enough to get our attention, obviously, and I accelerated, but yeah, they definitely had, had us coined for someone else and it got our attention.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In all fairness to the French, the rebels had PCOTs, the same vehicle because they're obviously supplied for the French military. You know, these things happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're on this off whenever you're thinking the bad guy, you're not thinking the good guy and wham, you know, shit, I gotta be thinking about the good guy too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And I'm hopefully I'm not focusing too much on the human error on our side, but that is a part of soldier, especially when you're, you're doing it for real.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People screw up and it's, and it's learning from it and it, you know, it was there and I was also aware of my surroundings. You know, I wasn't dumb enough to, to not see that the locals were suffering.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they have a tough life. I'm a fortunate kid from, you know, Western Canada, privileged upbringing. And I was there, you know, supporting obviously the French efforts, but the same time I could see that.


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[Assistant] There's other people in this world that don't have it quite as well and they suffer the consequences of bullshit. Yeah, so that was always...


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[Assistant] Uh, in order to be a GCP team member you have to be level 2 commando qualified. Uh huh. And then obviously your halo qualification. So is this me getting level 1?


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[Assistant] Okay. I had done my level one with, uh, the first company. Got it. So this is level two, but it's done for the costs, which is this French or the French special operations command. So everything from their Xi Jinping, which is their French, any terrorist team to air force for their controllers, regular army, and then their


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, time to, to see other soldiers. Cause I'm, I'm still junior at this point and I haven't done any courses except with other Legionnaires. This is the first time I kind of get thrown into the mesh with other French, actual French soldiers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've been busy. Yeaah. Uhm, I can't complain, but yeaah, you start to fatigue and starts to kick in and here I am. You know, starting a course.


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[Assistant] As I said, got to partake and it wasn't the... I mean that wasn't a normal deployment, I'm assuming. No. No. And then the fact that I'm not a qualified team member. So I'm fortunate that I've gotten thrown into the team that way.


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[Assistant] But I don't think I'm there mentally. I'm thinking I need my command of course. I need to get to the jump course. I need to, you know, be a proper team member and pull my weight. So I'm thinking we're just, I got to cover these courses, these checks in the boxes. I'm not really looking back thinking, oh, this is great. This will be chapter seven. Not at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, tempers would flare. I mean, you get an elbow across the side of the head, you know, things got, yeah. And you have to figure that out for yourselves. A way to get it done.


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[Assistant] Keep in mind these, the training, uh, NCOs are reg force. It's not Legion anymore, right? So they're not quite as apt at smacking that good one and getting me with it. So.


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[Assistant] Yeah. So Jill's, I had befriended when I got to Bunga, he was new on the team, but it completed all his prerequisite courses. So he kind of took me, not under his wing, but we'd run together. He kind of briefing on what to expect in the command of course, the jump course, some of the personalities within the team, like be careful of this guy. He doesn't like, you know.


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[Assistant] And uh, so yeah, he was a, he was a good guy. And when we got back to, um, France, Stephanie had met us at one of the French air force bases and brought sandwiches for us to eat. And so I got to meet her. So when I came back from command of course, I was doing my medics course that they're running on the, in Calvi. And that's when I was summoned to the.


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[Assistant] Which is mentioned because sometimes the legion can be that way, cold and callous, um, is what it is. And yeah, Jules was a good man. He was actually former French airborne, quit the French military to join the legion because he wanted to.


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[Assistant] Give her to go and, uh, yeaah, pay the ultimate sacrifice. So it was, well, I thought an important story to share because a lot of people don't.


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[Assistant] Think or see that when they think of the Legion, that there's good men out there risking their lives and some of them pay for it.


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[Assistant] Really an eye opener where this is, yeaah, serious outcomes.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it was sobering, I guess, to a certain point and you realize that, yeah, there's a risk out there. Something you take for granted. Yeah. Especially on a peacetime.


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[Assistant] The efforts of the government, the French military and the regiment itself, you know, it was nice to see that.


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[Assistant] He was thought about after and given the proper honor deserved, which is nice. Yeah.


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[Assistant] There's a chunk, as I said, in the ranks about a third are French nationals. Obviously all the officers are French.


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[Assistant] I would assume that when you're in a French regiment, the rep is kind of the...


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[Assistant] The level to attain and the legion, it has a different history and discipline.


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[Assistant] Um, and they'll march by at, I don't know how many steps a minute and high pitched voices in their songs. And then the legions turn and it's slow and deep. Well, it's, it's impressive to be honest with you. So I think that, you know, not necessarily that, but just the whole, the whole vision is tempting.


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[Assistant] You're, you're in a regiment. You're amongst your peers that everyone's kind of, you know, physically fit.


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[Assistant] Type-A possibly. And then you get thrown into the real world and you see kind of the, the sad side of humanity.


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[Assistant] The suffering of certain people and you kind of forget about that and then you see the realities. You're like, shit man, you know, there's more out there than, than I'm aware of. So it was a good learning experience, empathy, but also, you know, also recheck me as I'm, you know, do I want to be a civvy or am I happy?


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[Assistant] What did that, what did that experience lean you towards? Definitely happy with my choice of direction at that point. I'm not a big fan of big cities and crowds anyway. It was a good experience.


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[Assistant] Um, not something I certainly wanted to get out and become a paramedic myself, but it's nice to see other people doing their trades, learning from them.


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[Assistant] As a medic, you know, I mentioned in the book, that's not something that I wanted to do, but I thought it was, it was definitely a good skill to have as a soldier. Just for yourself, but also for your teammates. But, uh, you know, hospitals, all that kind of just.


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[Assistant] People with, you know, mental, it's sad and I'm not a huge fan. So it was, it was a good eye-opener for me to see what's out there.


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[Assistant] Exactly. So that's the top. This course is for the cost. So everyone from, as I mentioned, same as a command of course, it's a French, um, base reg force done for the training for the French airborne. So yeah, it's super laid back and a bit of a change for me going from the rep. That was like a shock to your sister too. Yeah.


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[Assistant] No, and I'm starting to pick up on that, you know, during this course I was there for a chunk, a couple months. So working with, you know,


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[Assistant] The guys from Hubert and other regiments, you see what a normal military life is like. You know, they go home and stuff. And that's the thing you mentioned, I didn't.


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[Assistant] Need to mention, but like on the commando course and during the free fall courses on the weekends, all the guys go home to their girlfriends, families or whatever. I don't. So that's something for, you know, a Legionnaire.


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[Assistant] No, we were free. I would go down to, we would go into Spain and take advantage of our freedom. And that was another aspect of my opener. You meet people over the other, you know.


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[Assistant] You meet, you make friends and you do things that now, you know, young, young men do. And I know I'm going back to Calvi, which is no longer going to be that way. So I'm starting to look around thinking, hmm, you know, long-term is this what I want to be? Yeah. Albeit I'm somewhat fresh to the team, but it's, it's still that.


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[Assistant] I had to sign for next year, so I was going to be doing six years, but I'm starting to think already, is this something I want to do as a career? Become an NCO and do, in the French system, you need 15 years to get a retirement.


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[Assistant] The Legion has changed since, they're not quite as aggressive and stringent on, on the thing. Uhm, for that reason, the turnover is to, to give the guys a little more leeway to keep the guys around, especially now that they're


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[Assistant] At this point in the story, in my career, I'm kind of tired of the training. I don't know if I was spoiled because of Bungie. But yea, I'm starting to.


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[Assistant] Not get lazy, but, um, there's a bit of complacency coming. I'm just like, ah, we're going through the motions here. You know, let's, let's soldier, not pretend. Um, and yeah, Chad wasn't necessarily a highlight experience. There was some, I don't get into too much, but within the, the section, there was some negative stuff going on, which is hard on any team.


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[Assistant] March and sing more. I don't get into it because it's not really my place to, to mention or to comment on, but Chad was kind of a, a pivotal tour where it was like, I was starting to slide on the downward


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Out of the back of the helicopters a lot. Uhm, and that's where I started watching them. Thinking that's pretty.


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[Assistant] And I'll come towards the end. And the Rose of Walnut story, it's in the book as we become the military police for the Rose of Walnut personal.


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[Assistant] But at least I think, I mean, you send legionnaires 20, you know, 20 to 25 year old into an African country for four months, you need an outlet. It's just a fact of, if not, they'll find it elsewhere and then you get problems, right?


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[Assistant] We gotta protect our guys. They're gonna go out there and find it if we don't, so.


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[Assistant] Yeah, the pre-train up to the course, we went up to the mountains and course in Corsica and Virgil. They have a, like a, the rep has a chalet there for training.


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[Assistant] And I had done exactly that. It had rained, so all the snow on the mountain was ice, so it reflected the sun the next day. And it would go right through the glasses, or underneath.


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[Assistant] As military issue type stuff is. And uhm, yeaah, so I had those on and he was like, yeaah, those aren't military issues. So I just.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think I can see the repetitive type. You start looking at your peers.


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[Assistant] At the job, I could see that it was becoming repetitive. The lack of action was obviously having its effects and other guys are getting on each other's case.


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[Assistant] Do I want to be an NCO? Is that something that I want to do with the rest of my life? Cause you can see your peers, what, you know, what they're going to go through and basically you can see your.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your career in front of you, just watching the other guys. And uh, I figured that at that age, it was time to make a choice. I was still young enough to make a change, but...


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[Assistant] You know, getting on that I need to do so sooner than later. So I made the, made the call.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. Enup Civito. So. What does that translate to directly? It would be incapable of civilian life. So if you basically spend too much time in the system, you just won't survive out in the civilian world. Institutionalized. Yeah, institutionalized, exactly.


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[Assistant] So, you know, at that point, I'm coming up on six years. I have options. That's how I'm lucky. You know, I'm Canadian. I can go home. There's, there's lots of lots of stuff. What's the retirement for? Uh, it was 15 years.


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[Assistant] It's not a huge chunk of money, I mean you still have to work after that. And that's definitely, that was definitely not a factor.


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[Assistant] Uhm, even after eight years, I think you recover all your taxes that you paid into the system. So you get a chunk of change.


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[Assistant] They had offered me to go down to Djibouti to be an instructor on their Art of Plage, uh, commando course, which was tempting, but, um, Djibouti was tempting.


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[Assistant] They've put the time and effort, as I mentioned, you know, they obviously get you trained up with time and effort and you got friends, you got friends and you feel like you're bumming out on guys that are counting on you.


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[Assistant] Previously, obviously, yeah, like tough, tough guys. So yeah, and yeah, some of them.


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[Assistant] We're just happy to be amongst peers again and not say much and enjoy their wine or whatever. And others would share stories, but I definitely respected the history.


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[Assistant] A lot of wordage, for example, Achtung is used all the time. Um, yeah, there's tons of German words that are in the legion of vernacular, you know, that get used and that's from them, you know? Yeah, it's neat.


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[Assistant] And they had obviously good soldiers, so they brought to them with them a lot of good tools.


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[Assistant] Regiment when they jumped into Molly. Oh wow. Timbuktu and Goa. And wrote the Ford on the book.


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[Assistant] Uhm, which gives us its legitimacy. He'll be a general here. He's doing, yea, he's on the right track, yea.


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[Assistant] No, I think you probably take advantage of your time off and spend more than you should. You're just the richest man in the bar. I did. I had enough. I sent money home and my dad was wise enough to help me and he invested and it paid for my helicopter training, which was a chunk. So yeah, I was able to.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Can I comment on? Absolutely. So before going to the Legion, obviously I'd seen pictures of the rep jumping into Dembemfu, which is where the regiment, the rep was decimated or the precursor to the rep.


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[Assistant] And those, you know, that history, those pictures were something that were definitely a big part of me joining.


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[Assistant] When I was going to flight school and I would go and have lunch or dinner with my grandparents, he mentioned that he had flown into Dien Bien Phu, uh, but a week after the capitulation of the French and he was there as a 2IC for the precursor to the UN. So that blew me away that.


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[Assistant] I don't know if there's a connection there, but just the fact that, you know, I was taken by the MNFUA. I go and serve in the French foreign Legion and my grandfather had actually been there, you know, a week after the war had ended or the, that particular battle had ended. And that just, for whatever reason, that just really hit home. Um, I don't know if that was, it meant anything, but it was just, it was a big part of,


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[Assistant] Represent your country well, but he didn't go into, cause he did have some, some ideas on the, on what the Legion was based on his experience at the MFU.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and then when I was, you mentioned that I was writing letters. Those letters were going to him when I was in Central Africa.


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[Assistant] At the end, he, as I did, learned more about the Legion and respected it a little more and got a better picture of what I was doing, so.


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[Assistant] As a result, he was more open about some of his experiences during the war, as he felt that.


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[Assistant] I think is my small taste, albeit nowhere near what my grandfather experienced, but I had that small taste of, as a soldier can, you can talk to another soldier when you've been in similar scenarios.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Unless, I could probably figure something else, but if you want, I can ship you my. Anyway. We'll get it figured out.


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[Assistant] He uhm, he hadn't kept a diary during the war, and when he was writing his memoirs, he said to me, Joel, any advice, just write down your memories now, because if you don't, you'll regret it. So I took him up on that, and that's when I wrote everything down. Right after.


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[Assistant] Exactly. And there was obviously more after the fact, you know, the research and friends helping and then getting all the, uh,


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[Assistant] The information I needed, but he was the precursor to me putting this story to paper. And it sat for a decade, like it was 150,000 words on a Word document.


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[Assistant] And, uh, over, you know, the decade with Asian experience and, you know, things came up, uh, my perspective changed and nothing came out that was representative of a Legionnaire yet, since Legionnaire. And I kept them waiting and then I thought, Hey,


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[Assistant] Maybe it's on me. Uhm, so I started putting in the...


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[Assistant] The time and effort to work on the story and it took a chunk of time, but I'm proud of the, uh, the end result and the fact that the Legion approved its narrative.


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[Assistant] I have a forward from obviously my former commanding officer, which is a first for a book of its type. It gives it its legitimacy and then the fact that Wilford Laurie was able to, or willing to, to publish it. That was two factors I needed. I needed the Legion's background or the backing and then a respectable publisher to give it that. Cause then I knew that it was a good story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not a ton, the Algeria stuff, yeah, Armour Group, they no longer exist, they were bought out by G4S, uhm, but they would hire a lot of ex-legionnaires because of obviously the French, the English.


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[Assistant] Supporting Halliburton Oil had quite a few rigs in Algeria.


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[Assistant] So you'd be there as an Operation Liaisonal Coordinator? Basically just...


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[Assistant] The rigs cause of the terrorism issue in Algeria, they would be secured by the Algerian army. So you'd just be the liaison between the army and the client.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that was about it. But when Iraq kicked off, it was more an interest in seeing what else, how else things were done.


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[Assistant] Um, that was the, the interest going there. What years were you there? Uh, it was late or really early 2004. So it was fresh just when, so initially it was Keller Brown route had gotten the, cause we looked after KBR in Algeria.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're a, they're a part of Halliburton at one point. In fact, Dick Cheney, I think that was a CRI. They got the log cap contract to build all the bases for the American military in Iraq.


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[Assistant] The defacts supply all the fuel. So we went over there initially. We had three floors at the Sheraton and we hired a whole bunch of local nationals. And the idea was to train them up on close protection. And then when the executives from KBR came in and went to all these different spots, we would, we would take them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that was my initial introduction to, and at that point, 2004 things were, were really that busy for people on the ground. There was no ID issue.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and then I came back the next year and things were a little busier in Baghdad and we were doing low profile PSD. So at that point, there was quite a few companies that were a little bit aggressive in their approach or their rules of engagement. And so as you know, better than I, the Bathurst or the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's whatever they were, they decided to go after the PSD teams. So what we were doing is we were doing the low profile PSD. So we had just buy local.


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[Assistant] A Mercedes, BMWs and we tried to blend in. So it'd be. Opel. Yeah, exactly. Just try to blend in and it would be two expats and Iraqis. And, uh, we, we had our DOD badges like we're all.


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[Assistant] And, uh, we'd have a nice union Jack classified in the front with us. And if, when your patrol is pulled up beside us or God forbid Blackwater or another PSD team like that, we'd be on the windows right away because if they look down and see an Iraqi with an AK on their left, they're not going to ask questions. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I did that and then I was up in Tikrit for a while and then Afghanistan kicked off and I did that for a full year down in Helmand. And what were you doing there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There they had, again, Armour Group got the, um, the contract for the British Embassy, FCO, Foreign Commonwealth Office. And the Brits had the Helmand Province, so this, they sent down an advisor to the, the Governor Helmand. So we are embedded with the, initially it was the, uh, the Parra Edge and then the Royal Marines.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we just basically, we had a small compound within their PRT, which is a little base they had in the centre of town. And then we had a house attached to the governor's compound.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we just, the, our client's name was Tom. You just take him, he had a floor underneath the governor's, uh, floor, office. And basically it was just back and forth taking him where he had to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'd fly out to, uh, some of the areas sometimes with the Brits. Uh, you know, at that point, Goreshk was going off, Sangan. So there was a lot of, you know, efforts going on to figure that out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I did that for a year. Um, and I started to, uh, yeah, I missed the flying. I had been there, seen it. It was interesting, good experience, but kind of felt mad enough and went back to flying full time in Canada.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We do that and then winters we heli ski. So when I go back. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So that starts. Whereabouts is this? Revelstoke. Yeah. Revelstoke BC. Oh, right on. Yeah. Uh, we got four 205s and four A-stars busy and we do that all year and actually the season started yesterday. Uh, so I did my, my training last week and when I get home, be back into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two of the names in the book, they're partners in the company, but we're just, you know, a small, it's Ravenhill Risk Control.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, the name is the VC that's in the family. And uh, George A. Raven. George A. Ravenhill. One of eight recipients to have the medal taken back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a sad story, it's a, definitely, he went on, you know, that's the Boar War, where he won the, the VC, he went on the fight in the First World War.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ward the VC, shot through the arm and back then, as I mentioned, he won of eight. He was, came back from the, well obviously suffered and he was in like a penal regiment for some of his transgressions or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think he was on the sauce drinking and they weren't paying him his, his monthly wage that he felt they were supposed to be. And he went and he stole two pence, I think it was 12 pence worth of steel in Birmingham. And it was basically the sell to pay for food for his family and he was caught. And for that, they took the metal back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, he went on to, they had to send four of his kids to orphanages in US and Canada and he died at my age. Um, destitute, sad story, but you know, a brave, brave soldier did his, did his thing for his country and paid the, paid the price. So I used Ravenhill as the name out of respect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's in the, uh, the museum in Birmingham, the regiment museum that he was part of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, it's, yeah, Legion engineered, uhm, it's early days, within the next couple months here, it'll be a foundation. And the idea is just to sell apparel online, uhm, to support veteran affairs, PTSD type efforts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Regardless of where the soldiers come from, uhm, the idea being if there's more sales from the US, we would send it to veteran affairs program in the US. If it's more from the UK, Canada, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, yeaah, the effort's more just to get awareness out there. I was recently invited to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be the guest speaker at my old regiment, the Royal Westminster Regiment's senior NCO dinner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, yeah, it seemed like PTSD is just rampant. I don't, I don't know what the reason for. They had a couple of young guys that came back from Afghanistan and decided they couldn't take anymore and shot themselves. And I was like, you know, I was looking for something to do that wasn't just all about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have the business, but that's about making money. It's just selfish at the end of the day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This idea of Legion engineered had been there for a while and I was like, you know what, why don't I just put those two together? So that's the objective is to build it and hopefully, uh, you know, if it's just a small amount of money, but at least it's something that I can do to give back. And certainly in a lot of CPSC has its history in the family. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Couple projects, there's a company that has a gold mine and we facilitate the movement of, of gold ready to be. Um, there's an NHL team that uses us when the owners fly over to France, for example, to go to the, uh, Cannes film festival though.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Use us for our networking because we can reach out from guys that we met during our, our courses and say, Hey, you know, you interested in working for the couple of weeks? And so yeah, we have that, that ability to reach on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I'm, I'm new. That was a learning curve for the book. I didn't have a Facebook before Appel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, Joel Struthers for like us Facebook and Instagram. And then there's our Legion engineer for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Final thing, just I'm humbled for the opportunity. Obviously I've watched your podcast. I've seen the guests on here and, uh, just to be among some of the names and stories and medals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That have been in this chair, uhm, I'm more than humbled. Uhm, so I appreciate the opportunity and the objective of the book was to educate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If people are interested in the subject matter and they want to know the truth, uhm, it certainly tries to, to do that for them. And that is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would grow up in Hanoi, north of Vietnam. And, uh...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My father decided to move his family to the South in 1954.


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[Assistant] Uh, do you mean before 55? Yeah. Oh, he has the, uh, some kind of business to cut the lumber. Like a lumber. Yeah. Okay. And, uh, he, he, he hired people to do it, but he, uh, organized the, uh, the office and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After, uh, 54, we moved down to the south. And he worked for, uh, one of the, uh, French company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After 1454, we moved to the South.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, I was fit, uh, 11. 11 years old.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my, my father sent myself and my brother, my younger brother, at that time he was ten. And, uh, to fly to the, uh, with one of the friends to the south.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, uh, before we go to, uh, we, uh, we went to the South.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That night my, I sleep next to my, uh, my father and, uh, he was, uh, uh, criticizing Ho Chi Minh, uh, because my, uh, eldest, oldest brother was killed in, uh, 45.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And since the, uh, we move around all the time from Hanoi to, uh, Haiphong and then go to the south and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Myself and, uh, my brother next to me, we all tried to make two great in one year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I joined the, uh, Air Force. And my, uh, my brother, he, uh, got a, uh, scholarship from Yushan. And he went here too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't believe that I would be. Because I couldn't, uh, ride the car, couldn't ride air, uhm, a train, or even an air train, a bus.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, the first time my, uh, IP, he demonstrated the, uh, uh, as in quit all the oral toiletation. And, oh, and I thought, I feel my, my stomach come up. Oh my God, how can I, how can I fry? But later on I get used with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I saw him in the Air Force, uh, in, uh, later 62 and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And formally it was on January 1st of 63. Okay. And, uh, I was, uh, have the, uh, basic military training in the Nha Trang for, and also the ESL for six months. And, uh, in, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In uh, July 63, I had this, uh, I was sent here to get a training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, and got the, uh, ESL again, training in- English training. Yep. In San Antonio.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When, when I, uh, get the, uh, military, uh, military training and the, uh, ESL English training for six months and then when, uh, I went to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What was Fort Waters for? For the primary, uh, helical training. Okay. It's the, uh, age 30, uh, 23.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From the, uh, uh, first training, I, uh, got the, uh, advanced training on the H-23 too. And then, uh, after I finished it, I went to, uh, Alabama to get the training on the, uh, H-34.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I finished the training on the H-34, I was thankful to get the training on the Huey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At that time they only have the, uh, at the school they only have the, uh, A model. It's a weird, it's a small one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because it's too easy, too easy to fly, right, for that one. Because, on the, uh, H-34, I got total of about, I don't know, hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, but on the Huey, I only get the, uh, 9, 9, 9 hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the pilot, the captain pilot who checked me, he said, okay, you can stay home. You don't need to fly anymore. You stay home so he can have more time to train other people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when I first came back from, uh, from the U.S. training, I, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was assigned to the 217th squadron. And, uh, the 217th squadron first stationed at Saigon. And, uh, in 60, later 65, was, uh, moved to, uh, Can Tho in the south. And, uh, in, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is the, uh, the group that combine, uh, fish swing and helicopter to fly the, uh, secret mission.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, later on the, uh, helicopter troop, uh, group, uh, become 219.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the group of the 80, the helicopter group in 83rd space group have only four helicopters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but when we become, uh, became the 219th, we have 24 of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Before we went to the operation, we had a briefing. What we are going to do and where we are going to work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But since I, uh, was, uh, so familiar with the whole, the whole border from, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Each mission, uh, lasts about less than two hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like the first time. Sometime in 67 or 66, I don't remember. Because I was shot down four times. You were shot down four times? Yeah. And, uh, I don't even remember which day was that. Except the last time I lost my hand. Remember that, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The first time I was shot down was in, uh, south of the Mountain. And in the morning we supposed to take the, uh, the platoon to make the security line south of the Mountain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I went now at 6 o'clock and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I come back to, uh, mountain, pick up more people and then land again and ask him which, uh, which direction is that. He said two o'clock and I take up and head to two o'clock direction.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I saw a line of people, uh, was moving.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With the, uh, holy, holy woman and she got a kid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, you remember the two baskets that they carry? Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the people, the civilian people, don't, don't, don't, don't shoot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as, as long as I finish it, I heard a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I make, I make a cross to, uh, on the rice paddy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, the, uh, the third shop of them that came down to, uh, pick me up and, uh, bring me, uh, back to Da Nang. And at nine o'clock, I go, I go out again to take that shop back. And we, we took that shop back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, uhm, mechanics, they couldn't fight in any round. So...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They keep asking me. Tell, uh, tell them. Tell, tell, uh, tell them. What happened? What really happened?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we couldn't find the, the, any, uh, route, then, uh, it must be the technical problem. I said, yes, I did. I heard the route, I heard the fire. And, uh, later in the afternoon, one of the, uh, mechanic ships,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was, he opened the front door. The front door of the, uh, of the engine. And he looked around and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, he was wondering, why this is, there is a hole in here, why the, uh, the, uh, the people didn't change it. So he called the mechanic and opened it. Oh, my, my bullet was in there. And that makes all the, uh, excited.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I go out and show them how to bring the, uh, the downed aircraft back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you know, when, uh, when, uh, I, uh, class in, uh, on, uh, in the, uh, rice paddy, uh, I, um, I jump out of the, uh, chopper and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, my, uh, my, my co-pilot, he ran along with me. When I, when I pick up the inventory, I look back and I saw the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The water on the rice paddy was swelling, because they were shooting from the village. Oh. Yeaah. Still. And I ran to the water on the rice paddy and put the gun on, put the machine gun on and, uh, load it. And I shot it. I shot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, is that how? Uh, operation there, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The day before, we went out to resupply and bring the wound from the team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I land and pick up some and resupply some, but the second one, that's right down by the RPG. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was about 5 p.m. And, uh, when I saw it, and, uh, I came back to, uh, to, to that door.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, no, we, we lost two King Bee at that time, yeaah. Two King Bee on the previous day. And I decided not to do that anymore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I land to, uh, on, uh, at, uhm, Dacto, uh, the, uh, the, the radio man from the camp, he went out, he said the order from Saigon not to land anymore. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I said, oh, I'm going, I'm going out again. And I asked the COVID and the two gunship, and then my, uh, number three, number four, King Big. Uh, I will go in again and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When, uh, we were about, yeaah. I told him, just follow me and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we were about five kilometers from the LZ, then you people just keep orbiting, and I will go down by myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wait until seven o'clock, seven p.m. It's dark. And, uh, I say, let's go. And I turn out on my light, the light, even the, uh, the dashboard light.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very, very, very, very defeat. Hard to see. And, because anyway...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For a long time flying, I can listen to the engine and know how much data it was working.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And how much, how many RPM it is running. I can listen to it. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said that, yes. So I turned off the engine and go down, go down to the top of the tree, recover it and ask him again, do you still see me? I said yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, guide me in, and you guide, turn right, straight, line, left, line, left, and then LG ahead and make a 360 with a 90, uh, 90, uh, nautical mile. Make a 360 degree to, uh, to land on the LG.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, the next day, I came in the game, at, uh, 10 a.m. And when I was taking off, and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a big brush and the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, chopper start to make up because the engine was lost. The, the brush blew up the, blew up, blew up, blew up the engine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The enemy fire. Oh. It was, it was hit by the RPG. Oh, okay, you got hit by an RPG. Right in the front. Yeaah. I make the right, so I make the right move to, to keep the, uh, the jumper to stick to the side of the hill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you carry the M30 again for good luck? No, at that time we only had the M60.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I grabbed one of them, no, at first I, yeaah, I grabbed one of them, tried to shoot, at however the RPG come from. But, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, he didn't work because they, they shot all of them and, uh, they, they, uh, they, uh, Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I think that the, uh, the girl was too dry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I started shooting from 50 meters away from us to 200 meters away from us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, when I, uh, uh, after I shot the, uh, on the grenade, I, uh, cornered the Coby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said, you still alive? Yeah, I still alive. And I called my rescue pilot, because he was on the sky, and he saw the, he said that he saw the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The frame, the line of frame go and hit my chopper, and my chopper explode. The front nose explode, and he thought that I was not that. But he was lucky, and he said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, we have to, we have to run away from the LG with the team from 10am to 4pm before I would pick up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, after that mission that I was signed down, I went back to, uh, they brought me back to, uh, DuckToe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I, uh, when I first see my, uh, my squad comment, I said that my flight need to have one week to, uh, from a vacation to relax.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the, uh, the previous day, one of the chopper, uh, also got hit by the RPG. And, uh, the co-pilot got killed. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The pilot, and the mechanic, and the crew chief. But, but, but, uh, I brought them home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the, uh, before the, uh, the next day before I left the LZ, I went back to the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, terror, terror, cable, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was in Laos, and I was taking care, and uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I asked my, uh, cruise ship, what's happening with the tail rotor?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he, he checked it out and he said he, uh, got in the tail boom and said that the cable, the control cable of the tail rotor was, uh, shut down, shut up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, so, because when, uh, I feel the, the, uh, it hit the, uh, the, the, the, uh, somebody, uh, something hit, but not the pail, I...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The chopper, when I was taking off, the chopper started to turn right because we don't have the control of the tail. So I moved the cyclic to the left and reduced the power. And I accept, I accept to be shot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My, my, my, the other thing be go ahead and land first and prepare for the, all the extinguishes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, because I have to make a class.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I mean, and I hear the break, I hear the break too, too, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I tell you one thing, if at that time we have the, uh, gunship. Yes. To cover ourselves, then we can make a lot of things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because we, you know that the, uh, when you go after the operation,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The feeling and the thinking of the enemy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What they are thinking? We can guess.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But here, you couldn't guess what they are doing. What they are going to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We can guess most of them. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Americans just go out and they receive a gunfight somewhere and just put, suppress it, try to suppress it. But for us, we can guess where they are going to put the gun, or what they are going to plant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One time I was shot, or I was taking off in the LZ and, the, the, uh, I heard the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm on the right side and I look back and I saw the, uh, NBA cheating behind the, uh, 50 caliber and shooting at me. Less than 100 yards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, so I dived down to the, uh, bamboo top and made the zigzag fly. But, uh, I, uh, I escaped, but the second king bee came in and they made it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What kind of, uh, gun was that? But, uh, at that time I was taking off from the LZ in Laos.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And suddenly, just like somebody hit me with a hammer in the back and hit me forward. So I used my left knee to hold this collective and keep flying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Use my left hand to check my back and I say, oh, it's still dry. I mean, I still okay. No blood. No blood. And when he got home, he, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I checked what was wrong, and I saw that on the back of my seat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And minus 1,000 hours for liaison or any other, other thing. So 3,000 hours. 3,000 divided to 2 hours for each mission.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I came in to Institute team and I saw something, this is like one time when I went to the LZ and I saw the telephone line on the LZ.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I didn't pick up, I just spotted them. You spotted them first? Because I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I uh, I


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I spot two of them standing on the big rock around this, this table.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I call them. Let them know. And then I keep, so they, they came down to pick them up. And I keep trying down the, uh, stream to look for other people. And I couldn't find anymore. I come back. I came back to the, uh, to the downhill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I couldn't see anywhere, I couldn't see inside the cabin or cockpit. So I used my right wheel to turn it back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, because we, we, when I know that the situation was too bad, then we have to go, go out as fast as we can, so we can bring them home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If, one time when we was, uh, they, they were putting mortar in, uh, in, uh, Necto, and I saw, I saw the, the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The smoke came out from the gun, on the other side of the hill. And so, I ran to my chopper and climbed up and cranked it up. And when I took it off, the co-pilot was late and he subscribe up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, at that time, we only had the, uh, let's see, the C model that we got from the army.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have the ADM, VHF, and FM.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the, uh, D model we got from the, uh, Marine, have detected.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, since the, uh, Taiken and the VSF, we don't use it often.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. We don't use it. We only need the, uh, uhm, UHF and the, uh, FM.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's see, what, what was that? I think they forget L-O-D. I think L-O-D. The, uh, this is the American company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, their main job is only to, to replace the, uh, parts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I supposed to change the tail rotor. They bring the whole set and put it on. They change the whole set.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know why? Because one time, after the, uh, change the, uh, the, uh, tail rotor, and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After I checked everything, I started to clean up the shopper, clean up the engine. And the shopper started jumping up, up and down, up and down. And I just split off the, uh, needle and, uh, cut off the engine. And the shopper would stay like this and it would start to, the nose come up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I go down and check. Go down, check, check, and check the tail.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god, guys, only, only one, uh, three break, uh, remain. It's supposed to have, uh, four break.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I, I, I, I married in, uh, 1969.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I don't remember if I was sat down before it or after it. I don't remember. I sat there last time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Every time I, the, uh, I wish I had, uh, but they, they, I think most of the, many times they, they miss me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One time, I feel back from, uh, Khe Sanh back to Guangxi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the, uh, weather was very bad, and we, we flew low, low, about, uh, three hundred feet along the hillside. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Suddenly, this, somebody fired a long line of, I can't write it, right over my, my ear. And I...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I looked back up a little bit uphill, and I saw...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The front line, the seat, the second line, the knee, and the third line, the stand, just like that. And they were on the hill, and they're shooting at me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shoot it back, shoot it back, shoot it back. And I saw the, uh, the round. Tracers? No, the round, dig up the hole in front of the front line of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if they hit any of them or not, but because I was the last one in the fry at that time. And so I just keep frying back to Guangxi and back to Guangxi, I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I count. I found 49 holes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Inserts the team and came back. When they came back, I... Just like when you are, uh...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you're in service for a long time, or in combat for a long time, you have some feeling. I would say the sixth feeling. And I feel something wrong on the ground.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At about 500 feet, they just don't shoot at me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're still getting shot. Yeah, and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I uh, I got mad, and uh, I said, I bring ZX5, and I skip the lino5. And uh, I got mad, I said that this is my land, and I take care of it, or why you're there to shoot at me. So I come back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And soon, and I got hit again, and the shopper got fired.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I was on top of the frame. The frames come out from the, uh, came out from the cabin to the cockpit. And I really...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I land somewhere around there, it will be okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't want it to be get cut. So I keep fried big like to, uh, budap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I tried to get back to Budap and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The flame, the flame keep her, keep burning. And, uh, one time it was so hot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I left all of the control, the corrective and cyclic, I left it. I keep my hand at my chest. When I saw the, when I left the cyclic, then the chopper start to dive down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I saw the uh, route coming up, and uh, I said, I just tell, think it in my head, and it's on, it's over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But when it come close to the tree top, the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The instinct of, uh, survival, pushed me to grab the, the cyclic and pull it back. And the, the, the chopper was diving down, and then suddenly, when I pulled the cyclic back so, so hard, and it come up, up, up, up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And finally I make a, a class landing in the open area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, when I saw the, uh, LZ, I was flying at 80, 80 nautical mile. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was nineteen not-to-go-my, and I...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So quick that I thought the tail boom came off, but it didn't. And it started to settle down. And I touched down very smooth, but it's still running. So it hit the tree and on the wheel came off, the blade came off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when the stove is on, I grab the seatbelt lock, and I pull it. But instead, I can pull it. My finger opens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And three times I use my left hand, my left elbow to hit the buckle and release the lock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I kept the, uh, handle of the window. Because when I make a class, it runs. And I had the window.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I used my shoulder to hit the window. And broke the window out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, when I don't know I saw from me down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, all of the, uh, material which came out, uh, would burn out, except the, uh, zipper. And the, uh, the clothes are still burning. So I rolled down all the grass, wet grass, and to, uh, put it out. And after it was out, I couldn't stand up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe they, uh, uh, guide me to the rescue shop, the number three, number three kidney.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, they brought me back to, uh, the, uh, military hospital. It was the military hospital in Saigon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Next morning, the, uh, one King Bee, one pilot, one King Bee pilot from, uh, DNA Field Bay, with, uh, with the, uh, American advice, brought me to, uh, Third Field Hospital.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, they, uh, amputate my, uh, hand and, uh, make a sheath skin graft on my leg. Because my leg, uh, when I was in the hospital and they, uh, the day the, uh, the doctor, Dr. Smith, he amputated my, uh, hand. I, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I asked him, how about my leg? He said he didn't know until after the, uh, after the operation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After that I go back and forth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And after that, after all the treatment, they send me back to the Vietnamese hospital.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was on the 95 mission and he was missing, that's all that we know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, he was missing about, around, about, uh, 30 kilometers north of, uh, north of Tay Neng.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the kingly pilots came to see me and he was my co-pilot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He asked me, uh, what we are going to do. And I said, I really don't know what to do now. Is everything messed up?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, uh, the thing that we, we were desperate because we lost the war.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's see, 30, uh, April 30, 1975. I was on board of one of the ships. I still remember the, uh, the name, the Sea Challenger.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, when I heard the, uh, it was off, uh, of, uh, Vung Tau.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know which it is. The Sea Challenger? Yea, Sea Challenger. And, uh, when I heard the, uh, announcement of surrender from General Minh, oh, my, uh, my tears just came out. And I wanted to jump over the bar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, when I look back and I see my two kids, and he's still me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We go back to, uh, go back home and then wait for what happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] July, yeaah. In July 6th, July 75th, I was in, uh, they put me in the, uh, Rehabilitation Camp.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They used to just talk about, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Propaganda? Yeaah, propaganda, that's all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god. This is likely, maybe class three already, grade three.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was there from, uh, July, I don't know, from June to, uh, August.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One time I was, uh, going out with my, uh, the other prisoners to, uh, clean up the, uh, the camp.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I was pulling the, uh, bubble wine with them. And, uh, one of the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the guy, the, uh, LBA told me that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You keep, uh, working. And we have the inspection team from Saigon to come see. And, uh, when I saw that, I heard that. I don't want, I don't want, I don't want to put any, I didn't put any map of why anymore. I just keep going along with my plan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And one of the guy, one of the guy in the inspection team, he came by my side and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my military, uh, ID. And, uh, after that he said, okay, you keep working with your friend. And he left. He keep working away and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About 50 meters away, he pulled out the, uh, notebook and started writing something. I don't know. But one week later, they transferred me from Long Dao to Sui Mau.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They call the, uh, the, uh, announce on the, uh, on the radio that, uh, your people have a name below. Be prepared to be, uh, to have your family to pick your people back home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then we leave, start to leave, it's quite obvious.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After 75, you know, after the, when they take over the south, the life was miserable. You know, the people who, uh, everything is a stamp. Food stamp, everything is a stamp. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One month maybe each of them, uh, each people only can buy maybe a hundred, a hundred grams of meat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or sometimes they don't, but it say meat, but in fact, they can, they can, they can even can give you either the hide or the fat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he, uh, he ride a bicycle to around the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The street near my, uh, my house, near my house. I said that, the fish go, people go to buy fish. And my, my, uh, my son, he was at, let's see, 75, 76, he was 9.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There will be rotten fish only. Only rotten fish. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From 75 to, I don't really remember exactly, maybe about 84. About 84.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the first time I tried to escape with my son, and we got caught.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, uh, I asked my neighbor, he, she, uh, she has some, uh, some information from other people. And so we, every time we have to pay. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The first time we, uh, got caught, and, uh, at, uh, Nam Can, way south to Camau. Way south, yes. South of Camau. And, uh, we were in prison.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. You know the, uh, the, the, the, the prison in Nam-Khan is, uh, just a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a case in my way. A wooden case. No, not a pleated. About, uh...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 1.5, the side of this room. They made it from the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, in this case. And, uh, they called with the, uh, talk with, uh, Mama Wai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, maybe a couple months, and then they transfer me, they transfer us, uh, to, uh, to, uh, uhm, Sok Chang. Sok Chang.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was it? Yeaah. And, uh, you know the case, you know in, uh, um, Nam Can?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There, there were a lot of mosquitoes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mosquito at, uh, about five o'clock, five p.m. We have to sit in the, the, uh, mosquito net. If not, they, just, it's a swarm of mosquitoes. Just like a bee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, after a couple months, we were moved to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was it, was it another prison? Another prison.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My, my family and all the other who, uh, the, the people who, uh, who organized the escape.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They get in touch with the, uh, local. And every time they want, myself and my son, we will release, we have to pay, uh, about a six or seven, six or seven hours of gold.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He just put his hand in my pocket and found a ring, a golden ring. And he just take it and put it in his pocket. And my, uh, pack of cigarettes, he take it out and smoke and put it in his pocket too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, another two times. But after the first time I saw that my, uh, my son is getting bigger and I don't want him to, uh, to be assigned, to be called to service by the, uh, with the NEBA. So I let him go by himself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did he make it? Yeah, he made it in, uh, 87.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After my son had, uh, had escaped, and I brought my, uh, my daughter to escape for another two times, I got caught too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Luckily that my, my, my, uh, my sister.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, my dad passed away. My father passed away that day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then I heard that the, uh, HO program, I am not here, I am not, uh, qualified for that program.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] H.O., yeah, humanitarian organization. Okay. Departure, yeah. And, uh, it helped the, uh, people who was in, uh, who was in service or who was in prison, uh, in the, uh, communist prison for more than three years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can come, I'll try to come here. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the total time I, uh, I spent prison is only two and a half years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I thought that maybe I will, I might be, uh, living in Vietnam forever. So I prepared for my, what I'm, uh, I plan to, what I'm going to, uh, do, to, to live. But, uh, at that time, the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was associated in San Jose. They met, uh, Colonel Masuoka.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, it was the, uh, Air Force retirement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and, uh, he, the, uh, South Vietnamese Air Force Association asked me to help me, asked him to help me, and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He went to Vietnam, and saw me. When I, uh, he asked me to bring all kind of paper that I had, and, uh, I brought it to him, and when he saw the DFC, and he said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, he didn't believe it. Because, uh, usually, uh, the DFC is supposed to give to a, to a, maybe a award to the American audience. So, uh, after he looked on kind of pay, on my paper, and he said that he will try 100%, but he is not guaranteed. 100%.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, he, uh, came back to, uh, state.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, a little corona, so funny. And, uh...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, they look at, they found the, uh, DFC. They found your DFC. Yeah, and they found all the records and the, uh, paperwork on that, uh, DFC. Wow. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The magazine? The National Enquirer magazine? Yeaah. They, they, they, they found, they found the, uh, the poor, poor guy that I, uh, I rescued. Okay. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One pilot came to see me. It is a zoneliner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, his, uh, squad command is Morrison.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I left Vietnam, my mom was still there, but I told my nephew, the son of my mother,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I left Vietnam on, uh, January 10, 1994. And I came, I reached, uh, Travis here to, uh, on, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, at first I lived in the same house with the, uh, the chief of the, uh, the South Vietnamese Air Force Association there. Okay. Yeah. I lived for...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Six months after that, I moved out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not yet. At that time, my, uh, my, my, my son and my brother, uh, my son and my daughter work to support me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, at least at that time I was, uh, I was sad because just stay home and do nothing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And waiting for the, uh, for what is going to happen, because at that time the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, they were trying to get a citizenship for me. So I can, uh, so they can keep me here.