[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After we'd removed a bunch of material, the podcast just didn't make sense anymore. So we just, we kept it down and I, and, and then because we are kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gonna put it up and then we didn't put it up. I am at fault for not ever putting an explanation as to why we pulled it down and why I didn't repost it. And it left Kelsey in a bad spot because of my actions. So ultimately,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this was important to me. The soldiers that served with Kelsey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And these are soldiers that reached out to me and even the ones who had a very different perspective as to what had happened during this particular operation, even those soldiers,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Told me that Kelsey had performed very well in her role and they were appreciative of what she had done and were appreciative of what she'd been through and most important to me they said that Kelsey had been a good soldier in combat and because of that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And because I know that Kelsey has helped people deal with their own trauma, I wanted to take this opportunity to get Kelsey back on here again and discuss her experiences at a high level and how she has gotten through and managed with her


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Post-traumatic stress that she's been through. So with that, Kelsey, thanks for coming back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I just wanted, I, I felt that I never explained to anybody why I pulled the last podcast down and I just wanted to make sure people understood, um, why I did and that it wasn't through any fault of yours and that, you know, we pulled it down. We tried to edit it. It was a bunch of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It just ended up not really making sense. And so I figured the best thing to do would be leave it down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I know, and I also know that I dragged, I kind of dragged my feet on that. And I kept saying, well, let us try and edit it again. And it just, it just never came out good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, I mean, I, I, I'm gonna err on, uhm, you know, like, for me it wasn't even, as soon as I got an email.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, like the families of the fallen. I was like pull it down. Like that was it. That's all I need to hear. And that's a knee jerk. Cool. I'm gonna knee jerk like that every single time. And then everything else I just had to just try and muddle through and we tried to get it to where it was like a leaner podcast and it just ended up being not very presentable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your life, which is how the book is laid out, uhm, starts in the beginning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you get in trouble in taekwondo for kicking someone too hard, like in the head? I thought that was part of it. I thought it was like you, do you know this echo?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You never did this? I thought you couldn't, I thought you weren't supposed to like full on knock someone out. You weren't supposed to kick people in the head.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I've definitely seen people get knocked out in Taekwondo matches, but it always seemed like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was a bad thing. Like they were like, oh, this guy got knocked out and like it shouldn't have happened. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And are you, when you're in high school, are you doing good in school, like from a grades perspective?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So then you get to high school and you're not very great at school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I know that women's rugby, there's the same rules. Like for instance, in women's lacrosse, it's different rules.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In girls lacrosse, same thing, it's a much different sport. Women's rugby is the same as, as men's rugby. Like it's full on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if girls rugby is the same as boys rugby, which boys rugby is the same thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I've watched, uh, women play rugby. Very impressive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is it the same in high school in Canada? Like you have freshmen, sophomore, junior, senior, and then you graduate at around age 18?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's your high school? Okay, cool. So that is the same as America. When you were, let's say, 15, what were you thinking you were going to do with your life?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, but when I was younger, you really couldn't, there wasn't, like nowadays people can listen to a wide genre of musics because it's kind of all on


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The internet. You can watch anything for free and you can get into different stuff. When I was a kid, you were basically only going to be into one, maybe two kinds of music. So if you knew what somebody was into, you kind of knew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What they were like when they were, at least you have that part of their personality down. Nowadays someone could be like, oh yea, I like f-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I like Agnostic Front and I like the Bad Brains and I like some country western band and I like, uh, Taylor Swift.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the way, I don't, I don't, I was recently on a trip with one of my friends whose their daughter's a huge Taylor Swift fan and so I was just listening to them talk about, I don't know


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they told me one song that I did recognize, but I don't know any Taylor Swift songs. And I'm sorry, Taylor Swift, if you're listening to this, I just, I'm, and I have three daughters, so it's weird to not know. And I think they were kind of like Taylor Swift. Am I, am I missing something?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But these days you can listen to like, actually I had a really good


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got something going here, you know, we're going in the right direction. My point is that, okay, so that was you, you had freaking, you were in the zone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when you look back, was it like a rebellious thing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like you're trying to show your parents like, hey, I'm a rebel, you can't really control me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What was the initial contact? Was it eye contact? What was it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you had like a freaking black concert t-shirt on and piercings in your face. Did you go over it and say something to her?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know. Yeah, there's some controversy about Veterans Day, about what you, there's proper salutation and what you should say or what you shouldn't say. I think the Happy Veterans Day I think is okay because it's supposed to be appreciative of veterans.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But not for memorial day, right? So you shouldn't say happy memorial day because it's like a day of remembrance. So you guys have...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you, they said no to infantry. Right. Cause you're too small.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, for sure. It's freaking brutal. Yeah, you know, um, and yeah, and if you're, that would be, you know, me carrying a hundred pounds is half my body weight. You carrying a hundred pounds is your body weight. That means me carrying 200 pounds or actually I weigh 225.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if I, that would mean I would have to carry 225 pounds, which 225 pounds for me to carry is really, really, really hard. That's a lot of weight to carry. So for someone to carry their body weight, it's a ton.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 2008. So do you know when you sign up that you're going to go deploy to Afghanistan?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's, they're gonna have to maintain the training standards until the next war comes around and that's what the country needs from them. I've had people that have been guilt, felt guilty. You know, they're like, I was only in from...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, 93 to 97, I never did anything. I feel like it. And I was like, hey man, you held the line when you did what the country asked you to do. That's right. Nothing wrong with that. And, and then for everyone else that's praying for war. And I know you young bastards are out there praying for war. We know it. I know it. It's cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Careful what you wish for. Uhm, which I got told to, and it never, never, it never pulled a prayer for war from my lips one time. So, that's the way it goes when you're young and dumb. Uhm, so you get to bootcamp, how's bootcamp? Shock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, the Marine Corps pros, and I know, I guess I know more about the Marine Corps drone instructors, but that's part of their thing. Like, they're gonna put on a little act for, to set that image and everything, and they're told, they know what they're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So then, what do you do when you're done with all that training now you're in your, what are you, going to a battalion?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ours? So you're not, you're not bihoming? No, not, not even.


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[Assistant] So you show up and then are you guys immediately in a workup preparing to deploy as soon as you get there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then how long did you, did you guys know that you were going to Afghanistan at this point?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The military is not quite as squared away on their travel plans as everyone might think they are. It's always like, you might be leaving around this date.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, uhm, what's your, what's your final sort of terminal guidance as you guys are getting ready to deploy? You got a little leave time beforehand?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so you're going, you're Canadian, you're like, we're going to Cuba.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you still not speak French well enough to like, be okay with it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a guy on that was with the French Foreign Legion.


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[Assistant] And I've read books about the French, but that's what they do. They just, you go there. It doesn't matter what language you speak. Uh, Spanish, English, German, they're going to speak French to you and you're going to learn French and that's it. That's how it goes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it's called Civil. Maybe it's about like the civilian transformation or something. I haven't read it yet because he sent it to me, but good stocks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, then what's your job in Afghanistan? When you get there, you get up to ramrod.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. Yeaah. And they left you a noose, just welcome. Yeaah, it was really lovely. Dark humor, military dark humor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you guys have a standard of like how long before you got rounds downrange?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Indirect fire is a horror when you're on the receiving side. That's for damn sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So eventually you get picked up for, to be, uh, to go out with a British unit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so now you get how far deep into deployment are you when you, when, when they ask you to go out and do this operation with the Brits?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so you're at least acclimated to the heat and the heat and the weather.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And do you, are you there for like the mission briefing so that you know what's happening?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, it definitely takes time to get used to walking on nods for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, hearing this story, actually, believe it or not,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, if you actually knew a little bit more, you'd have been like, what the hell is going on? This is like, luckily you didn't quite, you knew just, you were like, just at the surface of understanding, so that's probably a good thing, otherwise it would have been even worse for you, cause you'd been thinking, wait a second, I don't even know where I am in Afghanistan right now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, yeaah. It's a really good example of like the first time you ever do a freefall, what you notice and what you see is like really really small and then the more you do it, the better you get and the more you see and the more you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Understand what's happening. Just like it's it and then you get to like be Andy stump who has thousands of jumps and like he's gonna be way more aware than he was when he had


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, four, you know, I remember my first jumps, you know, I like the only thing I remember and it wasn't like I was panicking. I was, I wasn't, I wasn't freaking out, but I was like, okay, altitude, look at my ripcord, altitude, look at my ripcord, like look at my instructor, look at my ripcord. That's pretty much what I noticed, like ripcord, altitude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, instructor, just, that's what I noticed. And then by the time you get to 10 jumps, you're like, oh, there's like a cool mountain range over there. It doesn't look cool from up here. And you get to see more and more and you get to understand more and more. And it's, it's similar in combat. You know, the more you do it, the more you're like, okay, I understand what's happening. And if you've gone through rigorous training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even that can allow you to be very open minded and absorb a lot of information and you have a lot of experience like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, God, by the time I got shot at for the first time, I was like, oh cool. Like I was like, thank you. Like this is fine. Like I, I wasn't because I'd done so I'd done, I mean, I didn't shoot my weapon at the enemy for the first 13 years. I was in the SEAL teams and I'd done all this training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, from 1990 until 2003 and that's a long time to prepare for something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, but for you, it's like you're 19 years old.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your artillery, you're with a different unit, you're wearing nods that you haven't really trained with, you're getting in a helicopter with people you don't really know, like there's a lot of things that, and it's your first time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you add all those things up, and it's definitely...


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[Assistant] Females that were strap hangers and it's like, you're not being derogatory because sometimes you had like a computer guy that's a strap hanger. So we'd have strap hangers and I've taken strap hangers on where it's like, okay, you give them two handlers. Like they're going to watch them. They're going to make sure everything's good to go. They're going to get them to do their little job, whatever their little job is. And they don't really, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At least we would have him in the brief, like I would say like, hey, here's where you're gonna be in the- in the-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Put more guidance in place, which I did after that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After that happened, but yeaah, so I can kinda see someone thinking, oh, you know, we got this girl, she'll be, you know, if we need her, we'll bring her up to the front, we'll bring, you know, don't expect to see a lot of females.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Know what you don't know or they don't remember what you don't know. So if I was to go on a jump with Andy Stumpf right now, he'd be like, oh yeah, like, uh, hey, just, just do this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and that's cool when you're going to a happy place.


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[Assistant] And then, so you guys end up, you're in the field for a total of what, five days?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's, you're in multiple contacts, uh, a lot of contacts with the enemy as you're moving from village to village doing clearances.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this, this whole time you're, like you said, you're getting shuffled around, you're moving to the front, you're moving to the back, you're moving back to the front, you're...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I can't imagine that there's anything better for an artillery person than to be in the field and see the impact of what it's like to have artillery utilized.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the uhm, that conversation that we had last time you were on, and, cause the whole time, you know, I was sitting there, kinda like I'm doing today, of like, just pointing out the fact that you were young.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were not trained for this. You weren't aware of what was happening, you know, overall in the big picture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool, clean your hands, we're going to the next village. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the, and then when you get done and we'll get into that. But yes, uhm, I had a connection at some point in my life where, you know, I'd get these, these, when I was training MMA fighters and the MMA fighters, they would be very confident.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then they would go to the fight, and they'd get like, especially quite frankly in the UFC, when it's the UFC. And it doesn't matter, you do a bunch of shows, amateur shows, you've been wrestling your whole life, whatever, you've been in fights.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're, you're, you know what you're doing, you always, you don't get nervous, you don't get nervous anymore. After a guy has wrestled his whole life, or boxed his whole life, and now he's gonna go, they don't get nervous before a fight. You know, a, a, a collegiate wrestler doesn't get nervous before a wrestling match. Like, they get over it. Okay, maybe they get a little bit nervous, but, but they get over it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And all of a sudden they show up at UFC and it's a real thing. I think they have a name for it. They call it something like UFC jitters or something like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what I realized is, if they didn't know what it was, they'd be like, oh, there's something wrong with me. And at some point I said to myself, oh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The same thing happens in combat. The same thing happens before combat and the same thing happens after a combat. Oh, before combat you're nervous and it's okay that you're nervous. It's okay that you're sick to your stomach. It's okay that you're, well not sick, but your stomach is in knots. It's okay that you're, you're, you may be even like, I've seen guys shivering, like they're shivering, they're scared.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like, if you go, hey man, it's all good, you're supposed to feel that way, it's your body getting ready for combat, don't worry about it, it's fine. And they go, oh, okay, and it's the same thing before they get in the cage, it's like, hey man, what you're feeling right now is you're being prepared for combat. And the same thing on the other side of like, oh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have some uncontrollable emotion because you lost one of your friends? Yep, that's totally normal. Like, hey man, I've lost a bunch of friends and it's like, oh yeah, sometimes I'll just start crying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, oh, that's, that's, that, and it's not like, I don't, I don't think to myself, hey, I had a, heard a, you know, actually I would, the cliche is like I heard a song, but that doesn't actually happen. I don't like hear a song, but maybe there's be a picture I'm looking at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or I'll read something and, you know, go read old emails. That's a real freaking smart move on a freaking Saturday afternoon. But you do that and you can be like, oh, okay. Oh, now I'm sitting alone and I'm crying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But for me, I'm like, that's totally normal. That's what you do. And it's okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I, I don't think that that message gets to people to say, Oh yeah, you lost some of your friends and your.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or you get sad because you watched a movie, but that's all different compared to, oh, I lost one of my really good friends.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's a different kind of emotion that I'm not used to, so what they should be thinking is like, oh, that's normal, I'm sad that I lost some of my friends, and instead what they think is, I'm sad, it's uncontrollable, there must be something wrong with me. And that becomes, I think that becomes the beginning of a problem. Like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where no one says that. No one says, oh yea, you, you, you should, you, you, you, you're, oh yea, you uncontrollably cried like yesterday afternoon while you were sitting, uh, in your room by yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, okay, yeaah, that's, you lost one of your good friends, that's gonna happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You get done with this and instead of decompressing with these guys and unknowingly


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Venting and unknowingly like processing all these emotions. You wouldn't, I wouldn't be like, hey, everyone we're gonna get together and we're gonna rehash and, and let out our emotions and go through our emotions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which, guys do that without, it's not like a plan, it's just like, oh, we're freaking telling stories, guys are like, oh, okay, cool, okay, so you're crying, you're laughing, you're crying, and you're processing all those things, that's pretty normal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very normal for that to happen, but you didn't do that with these guys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and from a leadership perspective, you take that individual and you're like, hey dude, I got a job for you over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you protect your people to make sure that they're not getting exposed to that kind of, you know, authoritarian behavior, which they're not going to respond well to you. It's very difficult to respond well in those situations because everyone kind of comes out of it. Like I literally don't care.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm gonna do whatever I want and you gotta let them work through that. Otherwise you gotta, you gotta keep them basically a little bit separate and let them decompress a little bit so that they can get that out of their system and they can come back to normal, you know, in this case, you know, uh, garrison life because you can't,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It can be difficult for people to go from in the field to garrison without


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's really the responsibility of the leadership to go


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, I, I got Kelsey, yep, she's gonna be, she's with me, she's gonna be with me, I've got a special assignment for her, she's working on some stuff with me, and I'd be like, hey Kelsey, can you over the next couple days, we gotta prep this brief, can you help me with it, and you'd be like, I don't feel like doing that, I'd be like, yeaah, I know, you don't want to, but cool, here, put it together, and you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All good. And I've done that with a lot of people. You know, I've done that with a lot of people. Uhm, where it's like, hey, come, you know, JP to Nell. He was, when we got home from deployment, he went, he got pulled out of his platoon because he had a hurt shoulder so they put him as a BUDS instructor. That wasn't a good move.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was not a good move. And so yeaah. And so, you know, after a very short period of time, I got the word and I was like, yep, he'd come work for me. And he brought him, you know, and then then it's good because we are not going to expose him to stupid stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's okay and no offense to people that do stupid stuff in the military or that get, you know, and also like that, whoever that guy is, whoever these people are that are, they don't,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's unfortunate, often times, you should default to, hey, if I see someone that's not doing the right thing, my default should be, what's wrong, what's going on? I mean, if I'm in a senior, or in a leadership position, and I don't know you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm walking across base and I see you and I'm like, hey, your ponytail's a little bit out of hand, uh, and you go...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey, hey, what's going on? Or are you, how long are you in, how long are you gonna be at this base for? Is everything cool? Like I wouldn't be on the attack mode. I'd try and figure out what's going on because people, that's not normal. And I think it doesn't take anybody, no one in the military is walking around telling people to fuck off. It doesn't happen. So when it happens, that's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For lack of a better word, it's a huge cry for help or at least a serious indication that you're gonna need some assistance. Right. And so that's, it's horrible to hear that. It's horrible to hear that. And again,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We gotta do a better job inside the military of like, teaching people how to lead instead of teaching people how to be authoritarian idiots because it's very easy to slip into that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The diagnosis is a curse, right? Like you get diagnosed with something, it's a curse.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And sure enough, all their freaking stutters got way worse. They took kids that had a little bit of a stutter, and they said, oh yea, this is normal, it's no big deal, you'll grow out of it. They all grew out of it. They took kids that had no stutter, and said, the way you talk,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] indicates that you have a tendency to start stuttering and you need to pay attention to that and they've developed stutters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this was, this was in, I wanna say the years was like maybe the thirties or something like that. Can't do that anymore. And they call it, they call it the monster experiment because it was monstrous what they did to these kids and they ended up suing. But you know, isn't it interesting


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, even if, just to say like, oh yeaah, Kelsey, you know how you feel like really bad right now? That's, first of all, that's normal. And second of all, you'll, you'll process through it over time and you'll be okay. And guess what? Everybody has people die.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone's parents dies, everyone's grandparents dies, it's normal, and we deal with death.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're, you're, that's what you're feeling. You're feeling it a lot more right now because most people don't have to deal with people that are their age dying. It's sort of a war thing. Occasionally it's a drunk driving thing. Occasionally it's a, you know, it does happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You feel really bad right now and that's what that's the way everybody feels and that what you're feeling is normal and over time it's going to process going to get better. I don't know how many people I have had reach out to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We did a podcast and I was talking about overcoming grief and I did this whole big thing. It was very dramatic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very dramatic, but you know, I basically described when you lose someone, you get hit with waves of emotion that you can't control, and they're gonna be bad, and it's gonna be a storm, and it's gonna feel like you're never gonna get out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the way it feels, and we- it feels like that because we're- as we grow up we get control of our emotions and all of a sudden we don't need to, you know, we can push through things, well all of a sudden you get hit with emotions you can't control, boom, it's a wave, it's a storm, you think it's never gonna end. Well it does end.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're still going to get hit with more waves. You're still going to hit with other storms. They're not going to be as bad. And then over time, they're going to become less and less frequent. Sometimes people feel guilty because they think, wait, I was so heartbroken and now I'm not and there's something wrong with me. No, no, no. You're just processing the information.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If sometimes it feels like they're not going to dissipate, it's okay. The harder they hit you, the more they're going to dissipate. So it's going to be okay. You're going to work through it. You're going to be okay. We all, we all that have been in combat lost people. We've all been through it. You're going to be good to go. Like that would be such a nice thing to understand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you get home and you get, did you eventually go into inpatient?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then what's your next move? So now you're out of the army, you're still getting a paycheck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like what does your doctor say when you call and say that? Like that seems to me to be very alarming if you're calling me up and saying like if I get pulled over by someone that's not white or black.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you say you're working through stuff, like what does that actually mean? Like when you sit down with your doctor, cause I've never talked to any kind of like, uh, person like this before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The young pictures of Matt Damon, it is factual. Yes, actually. And I actually pulled up a picture and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's pretty obvious. And actually I have a, I have a friend that's pretty good friends with Matt Damon and I like forwarded it to him. I go, dude, check this out. And he showed him, he showed me the little text back and they were laughing about it. So yes, there's some similarities. But is that what therapy's kinda like? I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this is like Good Will Hunting, cause in Good Will Hunting, Robin Williams was a nom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, no, I've, I've never, uhm, done any drugs before. And so, other than alcohol and caffeine, uhm, and I don't use alcohol anymore. And I'm actually very, I've become more and more anti-alcohol as time goes on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, no, that definitely makes sense. I know that for me, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like for me, I don't know, I've always had a good grasp on that there's a lot of things that I have no control over and I'm okay with that. And even from a leadership perspective, you know, I would, anybody that's ever worked for me knows that I'm the literal furthest thing from a control freak. I'm like the most decentralized.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Perfectly fine, I can kind of shrug off things that I can't control and move forward, you know, so I, I guess maybe, I guess maybe I do, I present


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Controlling? Yes. But, uh, yeaah, I mean, I mean, like, here's, here's, like, just an example, like, my kids growing up, they'd never even have curfews. Like, you know, like, didn't care. You come home when you're ready, like, that's an example that people are always like, are you serious? I'm like, yeaah, I'm like, come home when you're, when you're done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And how I'm gonna behave and make sure that I'm doing the right thing from, you know, my perspective.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, uhm, I'm sorry to disappoint you. I probably won't be doing any of these things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, so you've done it two sessions of three each?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you eat carbohydrates? Or are you like in a ketonic state?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you on any, um, other drugs, like, uh, what are they called? Pharmaceutical drugs anymore?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To get us up to speed. Yeah. The book is called Brass in Unity. It is. Which is also the name of your podcast business. Podcast business, Instagram. Everything. It's all Brass in Unity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, that's what you do. That's what you do. All the pre-sales that you do count in the first week of sales. So that's how you get on the big list.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeah, no, definitely go for it. It's free advertising when you get on the, if you get on the list, then you, um, get free advertising from that, from that. So it's all good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I'm glad you, uh, got the W. That's a good way to close out that deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's free market. I mean, this is really like the free market versus the government system. I mean, everyone that every, I mean, look, the government did get people out, but the free market got


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The free market folks really got a lot of stuff done, which was awesome. And whether it's, you know, people like Chad and Tim Kennedy that got out, you know, thousands of people, great. That's awesome for you helping to get out nine people. That's freaking awesome too. Like everybody counts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I said, must be very interesting to be your neighbor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep, uhm, it's been a rough, uh, couple months for us in the SEAL community, that's for damn sure. I heard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Facebook, Brass in Unity, YouTube, Brass in Unity. You also have Kelsey Sharon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lots to think about. Definitely some mental health issues to think about. And I would say, personally, mental health is going to be helped out aided much by physical health.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I, look, I can't recommend drinking things that make you, uh, throw up and all that stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause I don't have any experience in that area of life, right? I do have experience drinking protein. Sure. Drinking ready to drink proteins. Hell yea. I would recommend, hey if you want to go in that direction, first of all, I think she said a bunch of stuff about doctors and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the meantime, I know some protocol. You're gonna need protein. Go to JockoFuel.gov and get protein.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's true, man. Go to JockoFuel.com, get some protein, get some, get some pow pow, right? The new official term for, for powdered.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Time war. We release time war. It's got obviously vitamins, minerals, some anti-aging stuff in there. So check this out. We're at the muster.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm at the muster, and I'm looking at the downstage monitor. You know what that means? So when you're standing on stage, there's two big monitors right down there, and they have like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's next on the schedule? They have, like, your notes for your PowerPoint thing, and I don't have a lot of notes. Anyways, I get there, I'm on stage, I'm looking, I go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I asked the AV guy, I go, hey man, are these, do we get bigger downstage monitors? And he's like, no. And I go,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you have this in some new setting for the font? And he goes, no, it's the same. It's the same, it's literally the same exact thing that we always run.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I could see, I could literally see better. Now look, I have good vision, knock on wood bro, knock on wood, right? I don't have, I don't wear glasses and I'm 51 years old.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know? And honestly most of the time when I'm looking at my slides it says add notes here because I don't actually have any notes when I talk. I just, I'm talking. But even seeing add notes here is like, why is that so clear? So I don't know what's going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not making scientific claims here, but I literally could see better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we've got, like, Luton in there. We've got ingredients in there that absolutely help. They're, it's, they are meant for ocular supplementation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is different? And I was like, oh, literally taking a supplement that has


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bro, it's freakin' awesome! So yea, check out the Time War, it's awesome. You can get this stuff at JoggleFuel.com, you can get it at Wawa. Look, we got moved a little bit, we got some...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got the imperialists, the empire, the big beverage empires, they're trying to attack the rebels, which is go. They're trying to attack, they're trying to snuff us out, like we're over here Star Wars style, freaking American Revolution style.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're putting, they're throwing their resources at us trying to crush us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Down there in that little corner. Go in there, ask for it, number one. I just found out too we were


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had Mulk in Wawa for a little while before the imperialistic empires came and bought some of our slots and we were crushing. People were picking, people were picking Mulk over


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two out of five slots for drinks and they bought the primes. And these are things that look, to Wawa's credit, they let us in there because they, they, they had a good, uh, amount of request for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then, you know, they're running a business. I get it. They're running a business. It's a deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And let's face it, we're literally selling something that's good for people. They know that too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So then what you do is you go, hey, you hit him up on social media like, hey, we had some Jocko Mulk in here, we were all feeling good, we were running our, you know, construction equipment better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we were doing a good job, now we're getting fed trash.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, can you help us live? Can you help us be better? So, that's what you do at Wawa. We're in Vitamin Shop. By the way, best brand in Vitamin Shop. Did you see that? Yes. Victory is ours. That was freaking awesome. Thank you everybody for the support there. Military Commissaries, Hanifers, Dash Stores, Wake, Foreign Shop, Right, Circle K in Florida. H-E-B in Meyer. We're in H-E-B in Meyer and we're also in Harris Teeter now. So, so check those out. Go in there. Get it on. You don't have to order. You can pick it right up at the store.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That and the time war. That freaking time war is no joke.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there you go, uh, check out docofuel.com, originusa.com. If you need hunt gear, if you need jiu-jitsu gear, if you need rash guards, if you need geese, if you need t-shirts, if you need joggers, if you need jeans, which you need, get yourself some Delta 68s.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause then things are freaking the best things you can put on your legs. It's true. It's part of my uniform by the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is a good dress move. OriginUSA.com. Made in America. We just brought out a new gi. The Nano Pearl. Have you tried it yet?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Best ski ever. Best ski ever. We did it again. So check that out. OriginUSA.com. Made in America.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And look, we got freaking the Chinese right now surrounding their mate doing exercises off of Taiwan. They're making moves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we're sitting over here without a good supply chain. Except for us. We'll be able to make geese. Right? They want to go to war? Cool. Bring your own geese people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, yeaah. Made in America. It's a real thing, man. It is no joke. That's what we're doing. We're bringing back that supply chain and we're bringing back manufacturing to America. OriginUSA.com. Go check it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was at the muster. I saw a lot of people represent. And you know what's cool? It's just a next thing, right? It's like a next level thing. It's like, yup, you're in the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With a little bit more, you know, a little bit more oomph, a little bit more authority in the world. It's so true. So get on that, get on that, uh, JockoStore.com. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to Jocko Underground.com. We talked about, you know, we covered some different subjects on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm trying to explain things in the world that don't really quite fit into Jocko podcast, but definitely things we need to know about. So that's jocko underground.com. It's also a platform that we own that we can't get kicked off of because we own it fool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a freaking triple burger. Oh yea, I still think that by the way. Yea, so there you go. Well now we have our own little platform. It's not a restaurant really, but kinda cool still.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yup, uh, that's $8.18 a month. Hey, if you cannot, if you can't afford it, we still want you in the underground. We still want you to have the knowledge. Just email assistance at jacounderground.com. But if you can kick in a little bit, that helps too. That's how we keep the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The mainframe up and running. Did I say mainframe? Yes sir. Kind of a technologist over here. Uh, YouTube channel. Subscribe to that. Subscribe to the Origin USA YouTube channel. Subscribe to the channel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What kind of YouTube channels? There. Going on. Psychological Warfare. FlipsideCanvas.com. You got Dakota Meyer. I've written a bunch of books. Check them out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, we have Echelon Front, our leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. Go to echelonfront.com. We just did a muster. Biggest muster ever. Sold out. We sell out everything. So if you want to come to one of our events,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go to Salonfront.com, click events and see which one you want to go to. FTX, Council, Battlefield, like what do you want to come and do? Check that out. We also have online training, ExtremeOwnership.com. We are doing what we're constantly


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going online. We're interacting. We have courses that you can take. We're putting up new courses on a regular basis.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Leadership is not something that you just know how to do. It's not something you're born with. You gotta learn it, and then you gotta train it, and then you gotta practice it. And it's not something for just like, oh I'm the CEO, I need leadership training. No! You're a new person at a command, new person at a company, new person in a family, and you gotta interact with other people. You need to know how to lead. That's what we're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] ExtremeMotorship.com, come learn how to lead in life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you want to help service members active and retired, of course, Kelsey's got, um, her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Brassinunity.com, she's got a bunch of charities that she's working to support, so go check those out. Also, if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families, you want to help Gold Star families, check out Markley's mom. Mama Lee, she's got a charity organization, and if you want to donate or get involved, go to americasmightywarriors.org.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And also don't forget about Micah Fink who's got heroesandhorses.org. We just got a report from him, from the field. Apparently, he just whittled a stick and then killed a mountain lion with it. And he's eating it at this time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Mike, Micah Fink is out there. He's really helping a lot of vets, uh, find themselves by getting lost in nature. So go check that out as well. If you want to connect with Kelsey, once again, brassandunity.com, brassandunity.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Her Instagram is BrassenUnity. Her Facebook is BrassenUnity. Her YouTube is BrassenUnity. She's also on there at Kelsey underscore Sharon. It's S-H-E-R-E-N. And for us,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Echoes at Echo Charles, uhm, at Zocko Willink. Just look, be careful, because there's an algorithm on there, and it's got your name written on it. So, just watch out. Thanks again to Kelsey for joining us, and thanks to all the troops.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That are out there around the world right now that are standing watch and protecting our freedom and our way of life. And the same goes to our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all first responders. Thank you for protecting us here at home. And to everyone else out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeah. I mean, New Jersey garden state. Most people scoff at that, but there are big parts of the state that are beautiful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so my dad was a environmental engineer back in the eighties, like early days when the EPA was first established, started cracking down on companies. My dad worked for a company that would take process waste, uh, toxic waste and process it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My mom was a nurse, uhm, so she, uh, you know, went to nursing school as a nurse until she got pregnant with me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had an uncle who had been drafted in Vietnam, but was never talked about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I had both my grandfather served for a short period of time during World War II, but also.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was never a topic of conversation. So I grew up in a family and in a town where.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The military service was not a thing. And I remember when I, when I was talking to my parents about this the other day, when I decided to go to the Naval Academy, I remember


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My mom was telling me several of my teachers called her and said, how could you let your son do this? Yeah, which is really unfortunate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was, I was super into sports as a kid. Unfortunately, not really great at any of them. Uh, played football, basketball, baseball, soccer, uh, really wanted to be an athlete and, uh, but was never great. I knew I had no shot of playing at the next level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause I was never as good an athlete as I wanted to be. Did you train hard? I would say I was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I, you know, I, uh, you know, played high school sports and you know, our, our football coach was our, you know, gym teacher. That was the standard thing. And you know, that's where I learned to do the bench press and bicep curls, which was the extent of my strength and conditioning training for the next 15 years. So I didn't really learn any of this until I got further down the road. What were your grades like?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had good grades. I was, I had pretty decent grades.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was a disaster, much to my parents grant. I play, oh, listen to, well, I was, gosh, going way back. So I was a huge Bruce Springsteen. I mean, being from New Jersey, obviously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wish, I wish the tattoos when you turn, you know, 13, um, big John Mellencamp fan, Bob Seeger, uh, and then the full eighties crazy. So I was a, you know, a child of the eighties and still an adult to the eighties. It's when I, when I train now in the mornings, I, I begged the coaches to put the eighties makes everyone else hates it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so my parents does, you know, certainly emphasize service. And so I went and checked out the Naval Academy. I thought something in the military might be interesting. Uh, went down for a weekend, had absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Zero exposure to the military before this, no understanding of what I was getting myself into, but I remember going down for the weekend and just being struck by how fundamentally different it was from every other college experience. So the other visits that I did and it totally clicked to me. So I came back from that and said, this is my thing. This feels.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really hard. I have no idea if I'll want to do this for the rest of my life. I'm 17. I don't know anything, but even if, you know, I do my five years after graduation and get out, I will have had exposure to a bunch of life experiences. That'll be good for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't have the eyes to be a pilot. So I thought, uh, maybe I'll be a Naval flight officer backseater. Um, you know, and then got to the Naval Academy and got exposed to, you know, they expose you to each of the different, uh, parts of the Navy and the Marine Corps. And, you know, once I experienced the Marine Corps click.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, within an hour. I remember first day they call it induction day and they, you know, they structure it right. It's a shock to the system, just like the first day of any bootcamp or basic training, but you know, they shave your head, uh, put you in line, take all of your possessions away, right? The standard stuff. And then they start. I remember we had a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Session where we could say goodbye to our parents and then you walk back into, there's one big dorm that everybody lives in, 4,000 people in one dorm. And up until this point, the pressure was like a six and a half.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we walk in the door to go back to the dorm and it's a full 12th. And I remember just, if I hadn't here, it would have been blown back at that point. And you know, by the end of that first day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I was really, you know, given a second thoughts. I, uh, I was in complete, uh, you know, paralyzed retreat mode. You know, they structure it. It's very obvious now where you, you can't succeed, right? Like you, you deliberately fail in everything, making your bed, your uniform, et cetera.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had never been in that type of environment before. I was used to things common.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Relatively easy to me and I just could not deal with it. And then I remember on my, my second day, it clicked. I was like, dumb ass, you're not supposed to succeed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You just gotta make it through. You just gotta keep your shit together. And that, at that point, it got a little bit easier for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the whole summer and actually your, you know, they mess with you for the full first year. So it's most intense for the, for the summer. And then the rest of the, uh, class, the brigade comes back and you get treated like shit through the end there through may of your first year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you do, you have to do some sort of activity. So, you know, if you're not a varsity athlete, they make you go out and do something else. Again, I had no shot of being a varsity athlete there. And I had an uncle actually who was a rower total stud. And you know, I really admired him. So I went Navy's got a good crew team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I went out there for like a couple of days and like, I'll go give rowing a shot. I give that about three days and I was like, this sucks a lot. Um, uh, I have a lot of admiration for rowers cause you gotta, you gotta love suffering in that sport. Um, it just didn't click with me. The culture didn't click with me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I had an upper class. This was fall of my first year. It came into my room. He was a junior and he said, Hey, do you play sports in high school? And I said, yeah, yes, sir. And he said, you played a sport here? I said, no. He said, you're playing rugby show up tomorrow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was it. There was no choice. And so I was like, geez, you know, I had never thought of it before. I didn't know a single thing about it. Hadn't watched a game of my life, showed up and that was my thing. I played for four years. Uh, you know, thank God for that moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is it back then it was largely a club sport. So every school, but Cal Berkeley was club sport, but we played, you know, mid Atlantic regions. We'd play Georgetown, Loyola, Catholic, et cetera. And then they'd have a whole national finals kind of playoff system as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I studied systems engineering, which is kind of a control weapon systems thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's something that interested you. You're like, why the fuck would you do that? Uhm, yeah, I was a, uh, I was a more of a math and science guy. I didn't, didn't like, uh, you know, the language arts as much, the, the math and engineering stuff resonated. My dad was an engineer. And so for me as a kid, that was something that I had always, I had always aspired to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So after my, after plebe year, uhm, every summer you basically get sent out to get exposure to a different part of, of the fleet of the naval service. So first summer, uhm, I think it was first, after the first summer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did a little bit with the Navy and then did a month down in Quantico with the Marines. Uh, and after a week there, totally resonated. You know, as you know, every service has a slightly different culture and the culture in the Marine Corps just really resonated with me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's, it's varied a ton over the years. Um, I think I can't remember if all the slots went out. There was a period of time during which they had to force people to go Marine Corps. So there'd be slots leftover. And then I think after post 9-11, I can't remember my year, whether all the slots went out or not, but post 9-11, they were really sought after.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was a really competitive thing. I think it's somewhere between 17 to 20% of Naval Academy grads going to the Marines.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh gosh, uhm, you know, I think first and foremost,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The biggest thing I learned really early on was how to think about others and not myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I grew up as a kid, you know, going to school, even playing sports to some degree. The first orientation is like, you know, thinking about myself. Am I in the right spot or my grades good, et cetera. And, you know, that first summer you learn, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ask him, why are you talking to me? That mindset shift was massive for me. So like really learning what it means to be a great follower in service of understanding how to be a great leader was formative for me there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I did, let's see, yes. So, you know, following summer then, so after your sophomore year, um, and I'm probably screwing up years here. I think I did every summer something with the Marines. I did that, that initial session and then I went back for an intense a month.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where you did a month in Quantico and then I did another month in the fleet. So you would do a couple of weeks. I did a couple of weeks with a ground unit and then a couple of weeks with the navigation squadron. That was after my, my junior year, uh, to then set up a graduation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, and being a backseater for me, I, you know, it was for me front seat or nothing. And, and actually just, you know, being an infantry Marine infantry leader really resonated with me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I actually got PRK when I was in the Navy. So it was like 2400 something like that in my left eye. Real bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's right. Yep. So down to Quantico, uh, it's been almost just under a year in Quantico. So all Marine officers go through this basic school. So, you know, the philosophy of a Marine or rifleman where it doesn't matter what you do, you're going to go learn how to be an infantry Marine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you know you're either grounds or air contract. And then while you're at the basic school, about two thirds of the way through, they stack rank the class, you put in a bunch of lists and then you get assigned your MOS.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Quality spread. Quality spread. Very controversial. Yeah, so they cut it in thirds. They start from one, you know, up to the top of the first third. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I mean, you know, a new level of, I'd say that was the first time I really got exposure to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, being in the field and, and playing, even though you're, you're leading peers, doing it under quasi adverse conditions hadn't really been exposed to that at the Naval Academy per se. So, you know, being sleep deprived, being out in the colds, trying to motivate a bunch of peers who.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Many of whom could get, you know, if they're going to go be an admin officer, a pilot could give two shits about how the patrol's going. Um, so, you know, keeping folks motivated and focused was a, was a real challenge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I did infantry officer course after that. So all the infantry officers then, once you get your MOS, you go to your secondary specialty school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So infantry officer course takes, uh, most of it, I'd say, you know, much higher percentage of time is in the field. Uh, the bar is much higher in terms of kind of leadership, uh, ratcheting up in terms of the adversity around, you know, sleep, food deprivation, cold, that's all dialed up. And then you're learning a bunch of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, strategy and tactics employed under pressure again for the first time. So just lots of, lots of mistakes on that from lots of learnings again, surrounded by your peers, all of whom now you've got it, you know, a bunch of infantry officers. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, within this cohort of officers, the most probably type a, uh, and learning how to lead, uh, in that group was, was definitely a big, big challenge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No doubt. Yeah. TBS was a great school. IOC was outstanding. The curriculum, the cadre, the leadership, the program in that, you know, relatively short time period, they got you about as ready as they could.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I graduated, I got stationed out of Ken Pendleton. So I got, uh, signed to a unit called first force or sorry, first light armored reconnaissance battalion. So it was a mechanized infantry effectively. Um, uh, got assigned to a platoon of 30 Marines, four armored vehicles, these light armored vehicles. They look like a Bradley, but have wheels. So big 25 millimeter Bush master cannon, pretty bad ass. Um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, yeah. And so showed up at my first commands, you know, thinking, you know, after four years of the Naval Academy year in Quantico that I knew what I was doing and then cold reality at me in the face when I got my first split soon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it would have been a Mew and, uh, we had some time, I think out about a year and a half before, uh, you know, chop into the Mew. So I had some time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I came into it, you know, I came into a platoon, you know, normally as a brand new second lieutenant, you come in, you've got a seasoned staff NCO who basically unfucks you, right? And teaches you the job. I came into a unit with 30, uh, Lance corporals. I had two, uh, newly promoted corporals, so super junior NCOs. That was it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it just happened to be at this point. I think this unit had just come off the muse. He had a bunch of folks rotating out. They hadn't fully staffed it up yet. And so truly the blind lead in the blind, uh, again, showed up on day one and I was like, holy shit. And first I was very fortunate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In that my first commanding officer, first company commander was prior enlisted exceptional and, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Read me the riot act after about two weeks. Uh, and then I, I, it was very fortunate. Got assigned a super seasons, uh, sergeant platoon sergeant who was a retread. So he had been a sniper Marine sniper during the first Gulf war.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, had gotten out and then came back in and basically taught me the job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go through a workup. So I, I spent some time with that unit, um, go through a full workup deployment, uh, and then chop to the new, you go through, yeah, that basically the mute, uh, workup cycle about six months. And then I deployed in, uh, we left in August of 2001. Oh, dang.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, you know, I mentioned I had, I was really lucky to have this pretty amazing commanding officer and he, he, after a couple weeks called me in and asked me the question you never want to get. How do you think it's going?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so I, you know, I can't even remember what I said to him, but he basically said, you need to stop running around and trying to do your brains jobs for them, your jobs to lead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You need to give them the space to make mistakes. So I'd come out of this, uh, you know, world growing up, part of the Naval Academy where largely my performance was within my control, my grades, even military performance of the Naval Academy. There's a little bit of leadership, but it's largely how you show up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I show up here wanting everything to be done. Well, cause I've got a high bar, a high standard. I don't, I haven't learned yet what it means to lead under those conditions. And so I was micromanaging the shit out of my Marines and we were failing everywhere. And so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a very tough, very necessary conversation from the CEO saying, you need to give your Marines the space to learn and make some mistakes and thank God for that lesson. Um, so that was a really big one for me of, of, but it was still hard, honestly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was not wired to be comfortable with mistakes and things not going well. So, you know, being able to get a little more comfortable with that, give my Marines a little bit of space, make mistakes was a really big, uh, big learning experience for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you have to learn how to create clarity for people and it's not telling them what to do. It's, it's making sure they have the context, making sure they've got the intent. What does success look like? Make sure they have the skills, making sure they're getting feedback when they make mistakes. That was just a completely new skillset for me. I had never learned or experienced that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is. Yeah. So this is a, this is a muse. You've got, you know, call it 3000 Marines get aboard Navy ships at this point. So this is, yeah, this is 2001.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so up until this point, it was a go see the world. It was go, go to Australia, go to the, you know, uh, go to the far East, uh, get some cool level, uh, ports and come back. And obviously that changed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We did. Yeah. So we, you know, we headed out straight from left from San Diego, um, went to Australia. So went to Australia and we did a week of training in Darwin. So up in crocodile country up in the North with the Australian army.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had a week out in the field, came back first night off, first night off since we had left San Diego. It's almost a month. So as you can imagine, Marines are to the winds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I think it was 10 o'clock at night and I remember being in an Irish pub cause there's Irish pub everywhere around the world and watch nine 11 on TV through this haze of, you know, X number of beers that we had at, at that point. Then what happens?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was, it was this insane trying to recall 3000 Marines from across Darwin to, you know, to leave the next morning at zero seven. Um, we, I think we got everybody, but one or two Marines, they had to meet us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were doing, uh, something that shall not be disclosed. And, uh, so they, they've, you know, flew ahead and eventually met us and we headed out. We actually went to East Timor. Um, so if you remember, there's a little bit of, uh, some ethnic cleansing issues there. And so we were doing some humanitarian stuff. We spent three days there and then we headed straight for the rural main sea at that point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we, we ended up, uhm, sitting off the coast of Pakistan and so this is probably now, gosh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, late October of 2001, I'm starting to do the planning for the invasion. And so we did the new, basically we, we took, uh, our hovercraft into little town, a little air force base in Southern Pakistan. And then flew from Pakistan into Southern Afghanistan, just outside of Kandahar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, a mix of excited, anxious, afraid, but not willing to admit it. Um, lots of, uh, lots of speculation. I remember one morning, you know, one of the other, uh, platoon commanders came in and said, I heard this morning that Congress declared war on Iran.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're like, holy Jesus, this just got real. Fortunately that turned out not to be true. Um, and then it was just like, get ready. You know, I think there was the nervous anticipation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That didn't go down. Um, fortunately, our tasking was we flew into a little airfield called rhino in the middle of just about probably 60 miles south of Kandahar. I think we flew into there and then we drove into Kandahar and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then that became a hub where we started bringing in, uh, you know, other conventional units, humanitarian supplies, and we essentially did security operations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In and around Kandahar looking for, you know, uh, Al Qaeda Taliban.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was, it was, uh, surreal. I remember, you know, we drove, we landed in this airfield where there was no one. And then we drove through the desert, didn't see a person. And then as we started getting closer, we were literally just driving through farms and these little mud huts, right? As you see over there and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we had a translator with us and you remember talking to their like, Oh yeah, we haven't seen these in, uh, it's been 20 years since the Russians were here. But so there's an element of like, we've seen this movie before and, uh, and then, you know, a lot of, uh, I did kind of, you know, uncertainty around what was happening in, um, in and around, uh, Condor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was a little bit of both. Yeah, so we did a little bit of, it was security operations in and around the kind of hub of the airfield. So we would do a mix of just going out and trying to gather information, intelligence, uhm, so talking to local farmers and villagers about what was happening. There were a couple.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, a couple of interdiction operations, um, around one of the major highways that Randy's trying to, trying to catch some of the, uh, uh, Taliban leadership that was still there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We, uh, we were not, but we had a, an unfortunate, we had a couple of Marines step on a landmine at the airfield. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There were, you know, I don't know how many thousands of landmines there from who knows when they could have been Soviet era. And unfortunately we had a Marine step on one and he fortunately survived, but lost part of his lower leg. So that, that changed the calculus really quick for folks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The minefields in the area, they put white rocks there for cleared minefields and red rocks for ones that were not cleared. Um, and so you would just, you'd see old ordinance sticking out of these farms. It was crazy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we were lucky. I think we were, we were there at a time where it was very offensive for us. They were, it was still very early. So there wasn't much of an organized counteroffensive at all. So we didn't have to really think about her deal with those issues.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, amazing. So he, he actually came and he met us in the middle of the desert and rode in with us on our lead. He insisted on being the lead LAV driving into Kandahar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Amazing. So he, uh, he came in with us, uhm, and he was, I mean, as, like, what an extraordinary guy. I remember so many moments from,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we were, our Marines were sleeping in fighting holes. Uh, they had the headquarters element in the terminal. Uh, we had a bunch of air force come in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, but General Mattis early on, he said, not one of my, nobody will sleep on cots or Marines sleeping in the dirt. You will sleep in the dirt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, Marines will cold weather gear, not a single senior leader will get cold weather gear and wear it until every single junior Marine has it. He personally supervised it. You hear stories. I would walk the lines at night, you know, doing the check on my Marines and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More, you know, frequently General Mattis would be there two in the morning sitting next to Lance Corporal, you know, talking to him about where he's from and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, asking a very thoughtful questions around, Hey, what's your mission? And, you know, it wasn't just getting to know him. He was inspecting us as well. Um, but you know, that is a guy that Marines would walk through fire for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember at the time having this moment of, you know, I think when you were in a, for me at least, I felt like you've got the, the privilege of being in command because it on, on, for a host of reasons, but, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being in a position where you had the ability to think about others first.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you almost didn't have that. I didn't have as much time to think about. I mean, I was scared. Of course I was, but, but being in a position where my first every day was, let me make sure my memory is taken care of. Are they focusing on the right things? That was a really big, um, uh, takeaway for me as well as.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, look, as we know, like at the end of the day, my Marines were largely 18 and 19 year old kids, kids who were, I had a Marine who was six months out of high school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, these are kids and seeing how they showed up under the most stressful and adverse of circumstances.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Man, what a privilege to get a chance to witness that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We flew on, I think we flew on C-17s back, I can't remember, uh, oh, we flew into Bahrain. So I think we flew on C-17s, uh, out to Bahrain, um, and then redeployed from there, uh, back out to the ship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's early 2002. Yeah. Oh yeah. Exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were lucky in that I just happened to be on deployment. So when I got back, we were the only Marines in the Marine Corps who had served in combat for 20 years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, you know, came back from that, we got relieved by an army unit. And, uh, so I, you know, I got, I came back transition to, to my follow-on unit and, and, you know, thought that was it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did. Yeah. So I, I, when I got back, I transitioned over to first force and, and then I went into a schools phase. So force does, you know, you do an infantry tour, most folks will come out of the infantry and then go to forest and then they'll do all their schooling. So, you know, we have a, I don't know what they do now, what they call it, but we had a basic reconnaissance course, dive school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's right. Yep. At the amphibious. Yeah. So we did a three month, uh, course there. I went to dive school in Panama city.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, as you know, on the officer side, the Marine Corps, you know, back then we only had, there's only three force recon company size elements in the entire Marines and each of them probably has three or four platoon commanders. So at any given time there might be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One or two open billets for officers, company grade officers in the Marine Corps. So a lot of it is timing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you know, does that line up for you? And then they had a mix of, you know, you've got a physical test and then some interviews that you do as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, almost did not pass the swim. Actually, there was a, uh, a rifle carry rifle toe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my form was shit on it. And I, I made, did like the last 10 meters underwater. Breath hold, breath hold, just gotten it through. So yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I was lucky. I was lucky and I was really fortunate to have, I had a Battalion XO, uh, executive officer at my, uh, uh, first unit that was great mentor and advocate for me. So he went out on him to write letters of recommendation. He talked to the monitor. He talked to, uh, to the company about making sure that I had a spot lined up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't think I would serve for life, but I was open-minded around when. So going to force, the Marine Corps has this philosophy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where they want to build really well-rounded officers. So, you know, unlike some of the other services, even on, you know, on the force recon side, as an officer, you could not spend your career there. You could do a company grade tour for maybe three years if you're lucky. And then maybe you come back and command one of the three units as a, as an 05 lieutenant colonel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They'd say, actually, if you want to be well-rounded, instead of going to force, you should go do a recruiting tour. You should go learn this other side of the Marine Corps. I personally didn't have any interest in doing that. And I knew going to force that it probably meant it was a little bit of a step back, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't have aspirations of staying in for my career, but I wasn't, you know, I also didn't say, Hey, I'm going to get out after this tour. I was kind of, look, as long as I love what I'm doing, I'll stick around.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I do suck. I am comfortable in the water, but in terms of like stroke and speed, I'm awful. And I got really unlucky actually because.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, I show up there and you know, they pair you with the swim buddy and the way they pair you with the swim buddy is they have everybody swim and then they just go by speed. Okay. And I was a decent swimmer, not a really good swimmer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, so I ended up second in our class in terms of speed. The number one guy was a former, uh, competitive swimmer, uh, lifeguard in Hawaii, uh, Ironman triathlete, total stud.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but I didn't see there weren't that many of us that were great swimmers. We had one guy that was great. I was enough to kind of get by. I could get my way through it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so you normally go to airborne, you go to airborne, then you go to freefall, but I got pulled out at that point of my school's phase to go to Kuwait. So this is now end of 2002 and they say, Hey, just kidding on airborne. Why don't you come back, do a really quick workup with your platoon and then deploy to Kuwait. I think we deployed in maybe February of 2002.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that right? No, 2003, sorry, 2000 because now they're getting us over there. So now we're looking at Iraq. That's right. So yeah, exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We did a very hasty three month workup. So I think we went out to NTC at Fort Irwin. We did a mini shooting package. Uh, we did a patrol package and that was it. So it was really hasty.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, amazing, but I, you know, I entered this platoon now as I think I had two Marines who were younger than me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone else was more experienced, had a bunch of tours under the belt. I was the, the FNG for sure. And, um, very intimidated coming into this. I had, now I had a, you know, the combat deployment under my belt. So I had a little bit of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, experience, but I also hadn't gone through normally as a new platoon commander, you're going through a full shooting package of full weapons tactics package. You're going through all of this. I had a compressed piece of that. So that was a, that was a hard transition for me, but I was really lucky to have an exceptional, um, platoon sergeant and amazing team leaders.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is. And we don't know how long. So we basically show up and say, Hey, hang out in Kuwait in this tent city and train. And at some point, you know, we think that invasion is coming. And I think it was maybe two months, something like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we did, uhm, we put some teams in really early in the first couple days. I think, uh, first day we put a team up near, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think North of Outkut, uhm, looking at, so these were deeper reconnaissance. The Marine Corps, Forest Recon basically had, you know, kind of dual mission set. They did the green side.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Deep reconnaissance mission. And then there was the direct action piece. We did all deeper reconnaissance stuff. So early on, it was looking at, uh, major highways, keeping an eye on major Iraqi units to get advanced intelligence on things. Um, and then, uh, we did a similar mission, um, in, uh, Al-Hala. So we ended up in Al-Hala for a while. We spent a little bit of time on the Iranian border.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically staring at sand, doing nothing, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We are right in, we are right next to the ruins of Babylon there. Like literally sitting right on the river.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're in a relatively secure area, uhm, going out and doing, uhm, kinda missions in and around that space.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and you know, I think at that point, looking back, I don't think we necessarily had a really good clear mission. Like we were supposed to be forced to supposed to be a meth asset out way out in front. And, uh, we ended up after those initial few days of the war, um, I think with a little bit of a question mission for the next month or so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was, uh, you know, I think excitement, um, a little bit of candidly frustration. So we got into a couple of places like sitting up on the Iranian border, sitting in Al-Hala where we were twiddling our thumbs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And felt feeling like, gosh, we could, we could be doing a lot more. We could be adding a lot more value. Um, a lot of frustration from folks, uh, on the team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was just the, that was just the initial kind of roll up. So, you know, the, the division moves so fast. So it wasn't a long period. It was maybe a week, maybe. Um, and then we ended up where, um, you know, essentially behind Ford lines doing kind of local operations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, well, definitely some lessons learned. We had, you know, during that period,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I came into force, and I worked for, my boss was the company commander, which, that bill was in 05, lieutenant colonel in the marines. I had a great lieutenant colonel when I came in, checked in, and then he got replaced. And the guy that we deployed with, our commanding officer, there was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Challenging, I'd say from a leadership perspective.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, very self and career oriented, a lot of decisions that were transparently about him and his advancement in his career, some decisions that put Marines lives at risk. And so we had this really, really challenging and fraught scenario where, and all the Marines could see it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, in the, in the general, right in the, in, in forced reconnaissance, we were dealing with more season, more experience. They all see what's happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it led to a very, very tense, very challenging environment where you had a lot of Marines, uh, get very, very frustrated at the leadership they were seeing with, you know, a few of us sitting in the middle and trying to deal with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was, I look back on it actually, it was, I mean, this is cliched, but sure. I think I probably learned more from working for that leader than I did from working for the great leaders. I think there were some things I tried to do to protect our Marines. So I did my best to, when I was in front of them, I didn't express my frustration with him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I supported the mission. I supported the decisions that we were making, even the ones that I disagreed with. So I didn't want them to see.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Me undermining decisions that were being made. We already had enough challenges with confidence in the chain of command. At the same time, uh, I, he definitely influenced my, the way I showed up in a way that was not as constructive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It became, I got to a point where every day I was like, fuck this guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever comes out of his mouth, I'm not, it doesn't even matter if I agree with him. I'm going to fight him on everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and you know, we would sit as peers, you know, in our tent at night and just bitch about this guy. It did nothing to help us. It was so, you know, we finally got to a moment where I think it finally hit home for me where I was like, Jesus, I, I get to choose how I show up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm letting this guy affect the type of leader I am, my mentality, my mindset.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, you know, I look back on that as a, one of probably the most profound learnings I've had as a leader. Like you can go through shit circumstances. You always have a choice in how you show up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and by the way, that, you know, I, that was, I was relatively young, having the benefit now of, you know, a couple decades.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, in your career, this is going to happen to you multiple times. Guaranteed. Military, civilian, business. And I remember someone saying to me once, um, you know, the goal is being able to look at every scenario and be proud of how you showed up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No matter what the circumstances are, do you look back and feel good about how you showed up as a leader?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were there through I think probably July of 2003. So I think I rotated back in July of 2003. And at that point, you know, so I had been with the unit for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, little over a year at that point and was about, would have gone into, uh, you know, work up cycle. So it's a play again with them. You probably go back overseas. Yes. So I would have been able to finish out my tour there. And I decided at that point, um, I'm not working for this guy for another year and a half. And I.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Spent a lot of cycles since thinking about that decision and, um, you know, it was I, for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That my career in the Marine Corps was about trying to create the opportunity where maybe I could have shot at being that platoon commander and you know, walking away from that was a hard decision, but I felt like it was the right thing for me at the time. Um, and again, lots of mixed feelings looking back on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you know, I had, I decided at that point, Hey, I'll, I'll get out and you know, initial emotion is excitement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, I, uh, get to think about what's next, not being a marine, I've been on active duty for 10 years, don't have to shave every day, I can go more than a week without getting a haircut.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I thought, well, maybe I'll just go to grad school. I don't know about business. I actually spent some time here in San Diego interview. There's a bunch of military recruitment firms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I met with some of them and nothing that I saw there was interesting. And I went through this crisis of like, oh shit, what did I just do?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh dear god, uh, and uh, so I decided to go, you know, apply to grad school. So, you know, studied for this test and applied and put my application in and that would have been, this was summer of 03, so it was to start in the fall of 04. So I basically had a year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did, uhm, yep, so, uh, skew with my parents up in the, in the northeast and had a buddy of mine, uh, we would go to Killington, Pico, uh, Jay's Peak, and just the whole, the whole gig, the whole, you know, she device here, she device there, you know, that for sure sharpen sharpen those edges, freeze your ass off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and so yeaah, I figured, hey, I've got some time. When am I going to have the opportunity like this? I was single, uh, and so moved to Colorado with a buddy who I served with and we had a great time. How long was your hair?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so I got a, I worked at a bar at Keystone, and I was lucky my employer was Vale Resorts, so I had a, you know, with that job I got a season pass to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Four or five resorts there and got a job bartending, which is hands down the best job in a ski town. You show up for work at 3 PM, you work late, you make decent money in cash tips and you can ski every single day. So I skied a hundred something days that year. Uh, and then ended up, um, starting grad school the following fall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I, you know, went through another like similar moment of like, you know, you show up, uh, this was for business degree and show up and most of my classmates are coming out of investment banks and consulting firms and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, you know, know the lingo or raising their hands in class. They've seen it all before. I knew nothing. And so like huge crisis of confidence at this point of like once again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shit. How am I ever going to find a job? Um, you know, the way, you know, business school setups, you do your first year and then you apply for an internship in the fall of your first year for that follow on summer. And then you come back for your second year before you go work full time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, so I applied for a bunch of jobs, uh, at, at Stanford, they have this system where you companies will come on campus. So let's say it's, uh, uh, Morgan Stanley comes on campus or Google comes on campus and they say, Hey, we're going to interview 20 people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You submit your resume if you're interested. They pick 10 of them and then Stanford says, you know, we want to give people who have non-traditional backgrounds a shot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we're going to let people bid on the other 10 spots. So in my two years there, I can get picked for a single interview.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so, you know, kind of reinforcing this shit, this isn't gonna work out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, so you've got a recruiter that's well intentioned, has respect for the military, but looks at my resume as like, I don't even know what this means.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty sure we're not looking for that. Exactly. So uhm, I got lucky at Google cause I, I had submitted my resume. There was a Naval Academy guy who was working there. I reached out to him. He was kind enough to grab some time with me and literally hand walk my resume to a recruiter and help translate it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was working on, uh, the team that supported advertisers. So he was managing kind of a sales and operations team that supported advertising clients.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Google actually came through an outside. So I applied to a bunch on campus, Google. I had to work through this veteran. So I reached out to him and said, Hey, would you mind? Is there anything you can do? I think I had applied directly. Didn't hear anything. This is 2005. Google's growing like crazy and was super disorganized. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, the only way I got my foot in the door there was through this other vet who was nice enough. That led to an on-campus interview. Uh, I met with a guy and went through the interview and things worked out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was great. I mean, it was, you know, it's funny, I, I...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For me, it might as well be a carnival. Like, there are pool tables and ping pong tables, and it's this beautiful, spectacular...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And incredibly intimidating for me. I remember I did my interview and you know, they had made me an offer for the internship, which I pretty, you know, was pretty sure it was a mistake. Um, and I go to meet with the guy who I'm going to be working for my host for the summer. And he's like, look, I, what do you want to work on?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm like, I don't even know what to say. And he's like, I got seven projects. Let me just read them off to you and you can choose.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he reads through all these projects. I have no idea what he's talking about. Like none of them mean anything to me. And the last one, he's like, Hey, we're about to launch this AdSense API. And so we need someone to work on that, you know, go to mark strategy for the AdSense API. And I was like, that sounds amazing. I'd love to work on the AdSense API. I didn't know what API was. I had to go look it up. So I go into that being like, I'm going to make


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know nothing about technology. I can't write a single line of code. My perception is you've got like the smartest people in the valley working there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I remember I had this, this amazing, uh, professor at Stanford, um, guy named Irv Grossback who teaches a class on leadership. There's exceptional. He built cable vision, huge cable conglomerate.