[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two years is two years of life maturing. So, you know, speaking with the team and understanding how to lead a team and how to develop a team and try and get the car into a better place. That's been most of the work I've done since our last podcast, I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Comfortable, you're never truly comfortable, but uhm, more about being that team player more than, more than having to be selfish to fight for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is a, it's kind of the same thing but it's not. Uhm, your speed becomes, at least for me what I've found is my speed becomes quicker because I know


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More and more what I want in the car and I know how to get it. So I know how to set up a car. I know how to get the car into a good window. I know how to, if the tyres in qualifying or in the race are going a certain direction, not good, let's say. I know how, generally I know how to fix it. I know what areas I need to improve on. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The experience really brings together a, an overall understanding of what you need, what suits your driving style, but also, uhm, what are the limits of the car? Some, some bits you can't fix, some bits you have to just ignore and focus on some other areas of the car, you know, there might be a, a, a characteristical issue in the car that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You could spend all day working on it, fix it, but you've made 10 other things worse. So this kind of appreciation for...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For, for getting lap time out of the car, uhm, and understanding of it has really gone a long way for me. And I think that's, that's one of the biggest things I've learnt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, but it's not, you know, I'm not there saying we need to do this or this because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's James' job and I think James sees it much clearer than I do and his experience at Mercedes and whatnot has really helped him, uhm, know what we need. For me, it's more, I've seen these areas and I don't, there's no kind of stone that has been left untouched that I didn't think need fixing and James has already turned it over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That makes sense. So, so I feel like we've, you know, in terms of an understanding of what the team needs to do to be a better, you know, top-field team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We know, we know there's not this discussion of where is it? What are we looking for? We know what it is, but it will take time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hot, it is hot, and I think, I don't want to speak for James, but I think


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, you know, every year that goes on, especially when we're coming into this year, you see, uhm, we've talked a lot about our car, how we've really changed the philosophy and the DNA of the car and we've really gone about it a different way. Uhm, there are some things we have improved massively to last year, uhm, but it has definitely stretched


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The team has really pushed it to its limits and uhm, the cracks show in areas and it's interesting to see how uhm, you know, especially for James, it's, it's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, myself as well, just because, because I want the team to be better and, and, and we want to be fighting, but, um, them areas are where we need to, to improve because we, we've got a good foundation now. It's just, it's going to take time. It really is to, to, to be one of them teams fighting for the podiums.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a well-oiled machine, Red Bull. I think there aren't any real weak points. I mean, even at my time at Red Bull, when is that now? Four years ago? Five years ago? Uhm, it was still a well-oiled machine and they've only just made steps from then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, you know, when I spent, when I had my time at Red Bull, you can just see that everyone's doing their job, everyone's at the very top of their game and, uhm, Williams, we do some things very well, some things we need to improve on, you know, it's not as, uhm, refined, but it's still in its,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think that's really the biggest difference. The desire and the passion, that's clearly there and that's always been there at Williams.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's weird because I saw a statistic the other day, and I thought I must have been one of the more experienced drivers or midfield. But actually, you take away Logan, Joe, and uhm, Oscar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm going to miss someone else. I think I'm joint with Yuki, but I'm like, I'm joint fourth least experienced driver, which is weird to say as a statistic, but I feel much more than that. And as you said, when, when, um, when you take into account four years of experience, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I still think, like what you said about Laura, I think there's always more to come. I don't think it just stops now. You still explore, you still find things with your driving or with, with things or let's say set up ideas and philosophies that you figure out. There's still more to come. There's always one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a tricky question, uhm, I think different drivers respond very differently, so I think, uhm, some drivers need that kind of, uhm, prod. Other drivers...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, they're totally opposite. If they can be in a happy space, they, that's where they perform the best. For me, it's somewhere in the middle. I think, um, what I've learned is I like, I, the more I can just focus and be in the present and not worry about the other side and that kind of thing, that's how I perform the best. But at the same time, um, I love that. I love that kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That fight, I enjoy the, I enjoy the competition, so. So yeaah, it is, it is somewhere in between. Somewhere in between, but uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it was such an open world, an unexplored world, uhm, back when I first was in Formula One. So, so in that sense, yes. Uhm...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I would say my roles have changed though, so more than anything, if you take teammates aside, it's more...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I'm, I'm enjoying with this new car, for example, exploring different setups, doing different things. And, you know, I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Especially right now, the dynamic within the team, uhm, we're just pushing the envelope and, and uh, because I have the experience and, and I think also confidence to just try things during a weekend and of course always come back if it doesn't work out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, that side has changed. I think when I was more, you know, up against Max and Danny, it was more just about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just give me a car, give me the car that, that the other guy's driving and I'll, and I'll get up to speed and I need to figure it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With my driving and my tools, you know, what we're doing on the steering wheel, where to improve. And now that's, you know, I guess in some ways that bit, I know I can do it. So, so, so there's much more time spent exploring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, but that's hindsight. I think hindsight is beautiful. It is, and you wouldn't, I wouldn't be where I am now if I didn't go through that in time. So it would always, you know, it always goes back, but I do think, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe people forget that I only spent six months in Toro So before I got to the big team and, and there was still quite a big gap in my maturity and, and understanding of F1 before I... Huge. It was, it was, it was, um, no rookies now I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People over time have really got an understanding of how tough it is to be a rookie, I think. Teams too, I think teams give their drivers more time as well as a result, but on the same


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, the cars are stiff, they're low, and that's where you get the downforce. The cars move around much more. Every bump you feel, you have to have true confidence in the cars now, because when they are jumping around in the middle of a corner. More like karting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly, exactly, actually, uhm, it feels like it's, it's definitely taken a step back in terms of, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Refinement and it actually starts to feel, you know, you've got, you've got to wrestle these things. So, so that side of things has played a much bigger part in, I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Getting lap time out of, out of the cars and as a consequence, they're much easier to make mistakes. Think, you know, when you run a stiff car and it's, it's edgy and these cars, they're still very wind dependent, the normal kind of things, it adds another layer to make it more difficult to drive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's interesting, so uhm, Bahrain was always a bad track for us. Because it's windy. Because it's windy, and the corners don't suit us. What we found last week was just how much better the car is at certain wind angles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I always find wind is more of a balance amplifier. So let's say you have a corner where you have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When the wind was behind us, it was a nightmare, and we've seen massive steps for this year. The only thing I would say to that is, uhm, everyone's a mid-step, so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, exactly. And it's all relative. So we, we kind of improved, you know, six, seven, eight tenths to last year, massive jumps and race pace, even more massive steps. You look around your shoulder and it's the same people you're fighting for the same position. So when you qualify.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is. I was happy with that. I think there's always.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd call it race one rust. There's a little bit you can find, but I think that's, uh, it'd be unfair to say every driver drove a perfect lap. I think there's always a bit from everyone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you know, what was it, Q1 was, was, was it eight tenths or a sec or just over a second covering the whole, the whole field? Now it's more like you make a little mistake and you think that's two positions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's in some ways it's a bit of a shame to see comments about Max and it being a boring season because it's totally not that, at least from my perspective, because you take...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Take him out of the equation, you have one of the best grids, the best field, the tightest grids ever in Formula 1. And even if, even if you include Max, it's still the tightest field in Formula 1, so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly, exactly. And, um, it's hard because it's, it's, it's the leader. So everyone that focuses on the leader, but, but the, the racing at the back is, is so intense. Um, we pitted two laps too late in, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Bahrain during the race and we lost six positions. We went from, from 11th and finished 15th. So it is time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In our heads, without supposing too much, uhm, we've got a very good platform. We know where the lap time is. Some of it is achievable, some of it isn't. Uhm, more for next year, which obviously is a bit painful to say because it's far away, but that's just the way it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have a good foundation, as I said, and uhm, we've got some updates coming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'll say it again, in the end everyone does. So you're only, you're only trying to out, outperform, uhm, and overachieve compared to the others. So, we've, we know we've got that time hiding in the car, uhm, let's see what the others have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he's been great. I've really enjoyed Pat. Uhm, we have these meetings, uhm, Monday after every race and, uh, just kind of like a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Organizational backgrounds. So when he talks, he's not just talking, he's not technically always talking about performance, but he's just talking about how can we be more efficient as a team and focusing on the areas where, where I think has


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we look at the areas for us to improve, that's really our main main main areas. So uhm, yeaah, you know, some things he will say are positive and there are others which he says we need work to do. Uhm, but it's good, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It would need something, but there's always two races, I think, in the year that that happens and you've just got to be in the right place at the right spot and you can have a chance. You know, look at, uhm, Esteban in Hungary, for example. So there's always a chance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We didn't take the gamble like other people did that race with the tyres. If you remember, it was raining and drying and all this kind of things. We couldn't because we were in such a good position. We thought we've got to just play it safe. We've got to stay out. Uh, but that's very true. You know, we're not far away and it's only going to take a little bit for us to get there. So, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's hope for a podium. I'm not sure if we'll come. Uhm, but I'll remain optimistic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't worry, I have, um, four siblings, um, and a mom, um, who take a lot of care with, with the pets. So don't worry, they are fed more than well. They are definitely living a happy life. So do not worry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wanna s- please give him a follow. Uh, I wanna score pets, we got 13 cats, and two horses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I love cats, but. So there's always this thing and I, I don't know if anyone can resonate with this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fine, we've already got too many cats at home, but whatever, there might be a reason for it. Uhm, normally the reason is, uhm, you know, there's a litter and, and they're struggling to sell them or, or, you know, they don't know what to do with them. Okay. First person they call it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alex had one, Alex had one, we'll take one. So they call up and they say, listen, we've got quite an issue, and blah, blah, blah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what often happens is my sisters and my mom will go to the, you know, to play, you know, either a stray cat or whatever it may be. Somehow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going in to get one, when they come home, there's three. Or four.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like, where have these gone from? And uhm, that's happened three times. And so you can imagine we're supposed to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In some ways, we're supposed to only have three and then ended up with ten. Because there was one letter, we took four. We're supposed to come up with one and we took four. So there's, we got one called, uhm...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This giraffe, hippo, uhm. Can you name all 13 cats? No, I got, I got quizzes this the other day and I don't. African animals. The problem is, I'm not there enough, so I really struggled to, because obviously a lot of them are brothers and sisters, it's really hard to know which one's which. So we've got Amani, Gucci.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Prada and Lucky. Lucky is just, I don't know why Lucky, but they were kind of a group. And then we have Goose and Duck. That's five, six. And Hugo, Hugo Boss at seven. And then there is a Giraffe Hippo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh god, lion. No, not lion. There's two more. Which, uh, I'm gonna get killed for not knowing this. And then there's sushi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, then we have a dog called Otty. Uhm, and then we have two horses. And then Stan. Stan, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Each cat has numerous names. So Amani is called Amani Moo Moo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then someone like Stan, so I call him Stan. Some of my other sisters call him Hugo. So can you see, there's this whole complex. It is very confusing. I'm sure the cats have no idea what they're called.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I am wearing these are custom one of ones, but, um, I do have shoes that I'm going to have some shoes this year. So make sure everyone I see a lot of drivers releasing their merch already. Hold onto your money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, leapfrog and leech on the drive and say, Hey, you know, do you want to use them? Can you wear my stuff? Whatever. I was like, if they'll, if they want some.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sure, of course, I'll give it to them. Uhm, so Yuki asked, no problem. Uhm, and then we were coming out of drivers briefing and Flandre was like, oh, I like your shoes, can you get me one?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was like, yeah, you, you bet you can. So, uh, so we spoke to my manager. I was like, you got to get Fernando a pair of shoes. Um, we had a pop-up store in Singapore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he ran down to the pop-up store, got a pair for him, bought them back and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, and then on Sunday for the race weekend, there he is with Alex Alban Athletics. So, uh, it was very cool of him and very nice of him. I think he's, um.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's very in with the kids, like, you know, we're not that young, but, um, you know, with all, especially cause he's in Monaco now, a lot of the guys we get on well with him and, um, there's a paddle matches and, uh, he's a good lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was speaking to Lando the other day, because I think he played with, uh, there was a group ring of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With Max and someone else, I can't remember, but, uh, Lando said, first 10 minutes, he was kind of late, got up late and strolled out of bed and, uh, he teamed up with Fernando. Maybe Lando tells the story, but basically said, he was so serious.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, the most competitive man you could ever meet, uh, you know, he was just that guy, like, are you in it or not, kind of thing, um, which I just thought is super cool. Cause that, I mean, he- That you have to sharpen up when you're with him. Yeah, he, he lives and breathes competition. You see it, you see it in everything he does.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's something that we know. Let's say it like that, uhm. We're gonna have to wait a bit longer. You're gonna have to wait and see, but uhm, you know, on my side,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm totally focused on the team. I feel like, I know it sounds generic, but, but it is very true that, uhm, I love being a part of this team. I love, you know what we spoke about earlier, this kind of building the team around and, and this progress, this upwards progress that we're on, uhm, is very exciting. Uhm, of course,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I wouldn't deny and say there are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Opportunities around, you know, there is, um, a very fluid driver market right now. And I think, um, it's exciting. It's moving around. Um, but my, my focus and my entire time is put on, on the team and, um, I'm here to go racing and then that's it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, I like pets. Apart from pets, I'm not good at anything else than racing, and even then it's questionable. But let's say... It's not questionable. Stop being modest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Photography. I enjoy photography. Uhm, I enjoy cooking but I'm not good at cooking. Uhm, more like sweet things than savoury things. Uhm, I'm not good at golf.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it depends how long, but I wouldn't want someone who's just talking all the time. Just someone quiet, so maybe like a Valtrye. Just keep it quiet. I don't think anyone has a face like mine. You know what I mean? Like I've got quite a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not unique face, but it's hard to do. I always have thought of, uhm, Jackie Chan. Just because, why not? You can put a few backflips in it as a-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I can't, again, boring, boring. I'm, I'm not-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm, I'm, I'm, it's my parents, my girlfriend and, and that's me. And of course the racing drivers. So I'm, I'm well out of the limelight. You know, I'm not the guy to go to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These, uh, fashion events or, or, or concerts, so uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sorry to all my, or anyone who knows me, I've dissed all of you, because none of you are cool. Stan, yea, Stan has his own phone. No, I'm joking, he doesn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a good question. Valentino Rossi. Yes, definitely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Huge. For the organisation, it gives everyone really the satisfaction that the work they've been putting in, for specifically the update I would say that went into the car there, but not just there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For all the seasons we've been there or thereabouts on the position of scoring points and perhaps not achieved every time. But you go to Canada with an update that's delivered good strategy, good delivery by Alex and walking away with points that have pushed the team back up into ninth and championship but within the scrapping distance really of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not going to say fortunate, but things fell our way in order to achieve it. And that won't be the case every race weekend. But we do have a car that can scrap for that point again, like it did at the beginning of the season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I hope in part it is, but one individual can never change the culture by themselves or an organisation. The organisation has to change around you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There'll be no consequences of failure as long as we've done what we believe to be correct at the time. So just trust everything that's going forward. And I think that's alleviated a little bit of concerns that were going on. And some of what you saw in qualifying and in the race was just maximizing everything that came out the data that you had to trust because it's completely different to everyone else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even back at Mercedes for the last few years before there was a great team in place as there is here. My job is really just to come in and give advice based on the 20 odd years experience I've been doing it and some guidance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sort of turn more, if you imagine a bowling lane and there's buffers that come up on the side, sort of keep the ball roughly in the lane. That's, that's all my job really is here, so just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That the direction of travel is being, uh, correct or there's nothing that's different to what I'm seeing to it. And there's the odd question asked in the race just to make sure again that there's guidance being taken to areas that I think have a level of importance. But the hard work's being done by others.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no ego. He's a funny chap. But I called him yesterday to explain to him that was a driver at Champions and I've worked with a good number of them and it really was. He didn't put a foot wrong at the point where he's under pressure from four incredibly fast charging cars behind on tyres that were much better state than his.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And actually some of the work he was doing on repositioning his car on exit of 10 and a few other corners was very clever. And he recognizes that. He knows that. He's obviously...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, not someone that's gonna go and boast about it to the world, but for me, that was a driver champions that he did. The way he sets it this, he's definitely bringing the car to the limit of its performance, which is what you're looking for out of a driver. I think he's very underrated and I'm incredibly happy that he's here within our organization today and here for a long time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Logan uses it, he understands. First of all, Logan has this appreciation which a Kent doesn't exist without drivers of, here's where I want to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm very prepared to adapt and change in order to get there. I've mentioned it in another forum, but actually the beginning of the season was a lot more tricky than I anticipated. When you actually look at the layout of it, how many street tracks it is, how many tracks the rookies have never even been to before, let alone seen physically, there was a lot of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even now, we're into races where Monaco was wet, one of the trickiest tracks. We're going to Canada, a track that, again, they're not sure about. FP1's completely gone, so they lose an hour of a session that they didn't have much running into.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we're getting them into intermediate contours into drying conditions and slicks onto really marginal conditions. And these are some of the toughest conditions. And it's good. You have to learn at some point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I think really the message I want to get across to the world is that for individuals that are trying to learn the car, the extremes and the sport, this is not easy conditions to do it by. And then furthermore you're up against.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone that's in Formula 1 is pretty much a multiple world champion before you come here. From Karting to Formula 3 to Formula 2. You're against the best of the best of the best. That's the reference now. And it's difficult. And that's a good thing about it. That's why the sport is fantastic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd say it's gone well. And by that, I'm not adjudicating it by my own feelings, but rather the workforce that have, um, both directly and indirectly let the world know that this is good. They're happy with the direction that they can see the leadership. They can see where we're going. They believe in where we're going and trust in where we're going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] An example of that is just the update kit. The update kit was delivered through expectations where it wouldn't even make it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That doesn't happen by chance. That happens because you have everyone aligned that this is where we're moving and this is why we're moving there and this is how we're going to do it together. Everyone has really been welcoming, which again is another good sign that's involved in this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what we're seeing is the way, the way I describe it is green shoots. You look at it and you can see across all of the business areas where you're getting development and growth that weren't there 100 days ago. We have a long journey to go. There's zero doubt about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My job is to lay out a vision that is not now just about survival week on week, but how are we going to be better in one year, two years and five years. The workforce can see that and believe in that as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you can't find me here, you will often find me in the Experience Centre, sat next to some of Frank's old cars. I was there yesterday for half an hour, gaining inspiration.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then finally, as I said, there's a name above the door and I want to make that proud and in years to come when we look back at this era, I hope they look back at a positive change.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Senna cars are for me a big change in livery, but all of them are quite special. That was sort of the era where I just started watching Formula One, knew about it, uh, became enticed by it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think when I've, when I've done the brand, uhm, a little bit more proud than I have today, I'd very much enjoy doing that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I had dealings with Claire, and in fact Patrick was here with us yesterday. Uhm, so still have communication and contact with him. Fantastic character. Really, really like Patrick. He gives you sort of the bare truth behind things that most others wouldn't. Franco, I really wish I'd had the opportunity to spend more time with. It just, our past never overlapped.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of the reason why I'm being vocal is to make the message heard to the world. I want openness and transparency on here's where we are today and here's part of the reason. It's not all of the reason. Facilities help you in some regard. You still need people thoughts, creativity, culture, all the other aspects that come with it. But it's absolutely still infrastructure systems are still very much a part of it.


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[Assistant] First of all I want the world to be appreciative of here's where we are today and here's our intention.


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[Assistant] Our intention is that, in the world of old, we didn't have money. It was unfortunate, but that's, that's what Williams was. It was, uhm, financially starved to a certain extent, and a number of individuals were, were in survival mode, is how I'd describe it, rather than forward thinking strategically about how we're gonna be better next year, the year afterwards. It was a downward spiral.


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[Assistant] That's not the world we're in today. I'm fortunate and very fortunate on this because this doesn't exist with most teams up and down the grid to this level. But there's significant financial backing behind this team. Money is not going to be the limitation. But we are restrained and I would argue sort of handcuffed to a certain extent by an element of the cost cap.


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[Assistant] And this is where it gets a little bit tricky because cost gap really has only been used in one definition, I think, externally mostly, which is what I would call the operational side. And for complete clarity, I think that's been a huge success and has to remain part of the sport.


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[Assistant] Very much into the accountancy terms now, but long story short, operational is basically the bits that you're paying in the car, the carbon fibre for it, the cost of people's salaries here. Keeping the lights on, that's your operational cost.


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[Assistant] Your capital expenditure side is actually, I need machines that are...


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[Assistant] But what's actually really happened is around about 2020 or so,


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[Assistant] For all the years prior to that, any investment you made, which is for many teams over 100 or even over 200 million across the years prior to that, big, big numbers, that's locked in.


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[Assistant] And if you didn't happen to have the money just prior to 2020, you're now with exactly what you had at that time. There's a little bit of a capital expenditure, it appears, but it's a small amount year on year, not enough to change where we are.


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[Assistant] And the reason why I've been focal and public about it is that if I just take where we are now with some of the facilities, for example composites, I will have to use a lot of external companies to do the work. Simple as that, I just simply don't have the facilities internally, which will cost me about three times the prices elsewhere.


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[Assistant] And you won't get a meritocracy. You won't get a stabilization of field because we'll always be on the catch up. If I take it even more extreme.


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[Assistant] That allows me to understand where a part is or even how to build an assembly. Just a digital software system. It's not an exceptional piece of software, very useful obviously, but that's bread and butter elsewhere and has been for 15, 20 years. And just sadly that's where all my money's having to go at the moment. For good reason, it will give a structure and it will help. It will generate performance.


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[Assistant] But my plea is really more one of, here's where we are. And I don't think people have really been open and honest about it. I've seen excellence. I've been very fortunate to be a part of Mercedes.


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[Assistant] That's what excellence looks like. But allow me the opportunity to fight with similar tools to what others have available to them.


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[Assistant] But you do need the support of your peers. You do need them to be here and accepting that we would like the ability to invest, which will become more of a threat to those teams over time.


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[Assistant] That's the nature of the sport. Equally, I don't think it'd be right that you don't have the support of your peers because otherwise we'd start pushing through rules that are just benefiting one party over another. But hopefully what the world can see here is I'm talking more fundamentals. It shouldn't be that I spend three times the price that others do to do the same part.


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[Assistant] I think you could if you did that across many, many years, so five years average, if that makes any sense, but I think with the swings that you are sometimes seeing, so for example, if you take Aston Martin, a very good example, that's a large swing in balance, so should they be rewarded significantly as a result? They have good facilities as well, invested in them at the right time.


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[Assistant] And that's where it became difficult. That exact discussion, in fact, took place between all the teams and the conclusion out of it was you'd need a long, long period of time going backwards.


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[Assistant] Another suggestion is why not just take the add up of the capex that people have done over 10 years and balance that for example. There's a number of ways that you can be doing it. We need to find one that, that uhm, I think is fair that really represents where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, different infrastructures are, which uhm, there's active work. FI and Pharma have been very, very liberty. They've been very, very supportive in this process. I don't think we're there yet, is my feeling on it.


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[Assistant] Yes, yeaah, I think many simply think of me and the other Brackley boys as it was, as those that had the dominant championship era with Mercedes.


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[Assistant] But actually you described it well, actually it was more rebuilding the team several times over.


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[Assistant] There was a rebuild around 2004, 2006. Again, for the Braun era, that was a complete rebuild. And again, before 2014, you have to remember at the end of 2012, we were Mercedes back then, but we didn't score a point in I think the last six races. That was Mercedes in 2012.


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[Assistant] It's the enjoyable part, if I'm honest, uh, as a part of things. When you're winning, to maintain that, you have to continuously change as well. You're never static, but the large, big foundational efforts that you do, if you get them right, they pay big dividends later. And I've had the opportunity to do that a few times in my, my career with, uh, with Piers.


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[Assistant] So, what I can say is the following. Since I started, it's been my primary focus is making sure we have the right technical structure in place and also putting in place structures here that allow us to really move on and develop without the external bodies being in place yet.


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[Assistant] But we're not at a stage yet where I can talk any more about it. It's a very sensitive time as I'm sure you would imagine involving other organisations and there will be news shortly in fact, but not today.


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[Assistant] My role migrated across the last few years when I was there to really start taking on more and more responsibilities that are very akin to what I'm doing here. Not the full breadth, but very akin to it. And I was fortunate, Toto gave me more and more responsibilities, I'd say month by month really.


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[Assistant] Toto brings a number of skills to the party. One of them is very clearly he bought a business that was at a fairly low value into something that has huge value today with large amounts of sponsorship. His expertise is really focused in that area. He's a great leader. All of those assets I was able to learn from him.


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[Assistant] Uh, as you described it, a technical director or otherwise in place. And it's different as a result of that. I was fortunate in Mercedes to be a part of something that was called the TMM. Effectively, it's the technical management structure that's there. James Allison's part of it. Andrew Shovelin.


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[Assistant] The TP role here is one that I think is very, very different, for example, to one that's a Mercedes, just simply because this one, the breadth of it is largely across all parts of the organisation, technical as well, in some level of depth.


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[Assistant] Posts and cons are both. We don't have a CEO here, but I have an incredible, what I would call management committee. It's not many people, but we have.


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[Assistant] At least have an overview of every part of the business from commercial income, in other words, how you market yourself, what your brand looks like. And from that perspective, you have what I would call another generation of team principals, Toto, who is leading the march on that one, Christian incredibly good at that one as well, understanding what you need to optimize in those areas.


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[Assistant] Then also, that's just one small part of the company though. The other part of the company's production, the other part of the company's performance, design, build. You need someone that has an overview of all of those. And all you're seeing is someone could be more expert in one area than another.


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[Assistant] I think what I bring to the party, both from my experience at Mercedes, but also from other organisations that I had links with fundamentally and companies I had links with, I understand finance HR and business from those as a result of it.


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[Assistant] As to whether or not that's going to be the modern way Formula One goes, I think certainly it works for Williams and the structure we have today and the direction of travel that we're in. It may not work as well within other organisations where they have huge technical strength.


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[Assistant] That is, yeaah. That's pretty much it. That's how I describe it as well. Uhm, it was surprisingly competitive, is the right way of putting it. It was good. Same in another test I did with another manufacturer. Ended up being within 1.2 of the works drivers, which is not shit. It's okay.


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[Assistant] I enjoyed it, dramatically, but the point is there are still people out there 1.2 seconds faster than you. They're professional drivers, but that's, that's the reference.


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[Assistant] I love it. That's the difference to it. You form a passion and a bond with it, and that was for me. And what I decided at the time was that this is, I enjoy it, but I watch Formula One on TV, gaining a connection with it. This is back in sort of the 90s. You look at it on TV, and my perception back then was it's about 40 people.


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[Assistant] Went to university, and the first degree I did wasn't engineering at all. It was mathematics and computer science, uh, because I was just good at them. And this is back in the 90s, so computer science was still on the upwards ramp. It was a useful subject to have. You knew that you would...


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[Assistant] We need engineers. We don't really need mathematicians, they don't have a place within this organisation, but you need an engineering background to get in, and typically we wouldn't take graduates either, so there has to be something about you where there's an experience set that brings value to the team. Useful conversation.


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[Assistant] What I then went on to do was finish off that first degree, worked then in a mixture of Formula 3, started the Cranfield course effectively. It was the first year that course ever existed.


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[Assistant] And I wasn't naive enough to know that actually what you need is the ability to at least get in front of individuals to show them that you're capable because otherwise you'd just be too far away. And it provided that. It was a, it was a good course as well. Gave you grounding in composites, metallurgy, structures, aerodynamics, management as well. It taught you a number of aspects of that.


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[Assistant] I loved it. I mean, I was sleeping on the floor of someone's house, had the normal things you would expect. But I put everything in, all the chips were down on the table. I didn't, I didn't really care. Everything had to be about making it into Formula One for me now.


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[Assistant] For certainly the engineering side, it wouldn't be the same if you're in communications or marketing, but, but actually the formula is more straightforward than that.


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[Assistant] Now the world's changed, fortunately. Graduates didn't really become part of the foundations of Formula One teams. Certainly for Williams, graduates are.


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[Assistant] I would actually agree with him. I think the level and quality that we're testing candidates to now...


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[Assistant] But actually, Formula One is about bringing together 800 or 1000 individuals working as one, which means your emotional intelligence, how you communicate, how you work with individuals, is as important.


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[Assistant] I learned a tremendous amount from him and it's a bit of that way. He was very good at bringing the right people in the room together at the right time to communicate and talk with each other. That's one of his strengths, perhaps wasn't even seen externally like that, but that was very much it.


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[Assistant] I had a very good ability to look at a timing page. Not, not detailed systems underneath it, but a timing page and sort of have a view of the race from that.


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[Assistant] That's a skill that's served him very well. What happened is, is technology's obviously got developed since then that allow you to do things a million times in the future in different directions, which gives you more of a view of statistically what is the right way to go about it. But even so, I remember a very proud moment where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was looking at the gaps, looking at the progression. The characteristics I took from him definitely are he had the ability to bring a room, he was a leader, he had the command of a room, he was able to bring the right people together, give you a subject, give you direction and move forward on it. He was very good also at understanding, as I am as well, that


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[Assistant] You're not going to catch up by scratching as other people are in exactly the same way year on year. You've got to do big steps, which means take away.


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[Assistant] And look for regulation changes or large changes that you can execute and do those. Don't just do the small, minor improvements that are the same as everyone else.


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[Assistant] We're talking Double Diffuser 2009. Exactly that. But the 2009, the, the, the brilliance behind it was that all the work was done in 2008. 2008 and seven, to a certain extent, but eight especially, that was a sacrificial year.


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[Assistant] I met Nicky, uh, I got a paraphrase because a lot of swearing wouldn't be, uh, appropriate for this podcast, but long story short, it was power unit is great, chassis is poor. Different words he used, a lot more words, but that was the concept behind it. Okay.


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[Assistant] Hi, I'm James. Uhm, what I liked about him is there was no bullshit. It was just really direct. And at the beginning, actually, he created a lot of friction by basically being really direct and in your face on things.


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[Assistant] He would call a spade a spade. He would call it exactly what things are. When other people in the room, perhaps a little bit nervous about trading on people's toes, no, this is how you do it. Straight in there. Very good with the drivers held their respect because of course he was, he was a driver, one of the best in the world at what he did.


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[Assistant] But taught me a lot about how to interact with individuals. All too often, especially in English culture, you're a little bit cautious about approaching a point. Actually, one of the best things you can do often is be direct. Explain what you're trying to do.


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[Assistant] And that was definitely an element that I learned from him. The other one is he had the respect of every single Avenger within that team. After starting with a very abrupt start to it, simply because he was a racer, pure and simple. He just wanted performance and winning. And, uh, that culture emanated from him in spades and really went around the organization.


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[Assistant] Um, he said, I knew you were calling me about that, um, at the time. So he was, he was having dinner with Susie and I could hear Susie in the background whooping.


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[Assistant] So it doesn't, it doesn't matter how he wants to play it down. It didn't matter. I had Suzy's backing. So I was, I was good to go as far as I went. He was happy for me. He knows that I'd been alongside him really doing everything I could to support him and learn from him in every opportunity he provided.


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[Assistant] And that that opportunity wouldn't, for the time being, be in Mercedes. And so he could see that I had really reached a glass ceiling, reached a wall that I couldn't break through. But I had the capability to do this elsewhere, and he was completely in support.


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[Assistant] No, the first time I looked for it, because you have to be realizing you're there. And I think there was still a learning cycle I was going through. Last year was some of the first races where Toto wasn't with us at the track. And obviously Brazil was a strong moment where we went on to win.


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[Assistant] There was relationships and bonds and learning that I had to go through. And it felt right at the end of last year. I wouldn't say it was correct before then. I think anything before then, it would have been not too significant a jump necessarily.


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[Assistant] He's very honest. Very, very honest. Much too painful, at time he'll call it brutal honesty, but actually worked well.


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[Assistant] Pretty much, and it's hard to do because they're, as with all humans, no two are the same. They're very different in characteristics. The one that impressed me year on year is Lewis because he can pick himself up.


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[Assistant] And literally change a lot about himself. Doesn't matter if it's training harder or changing your diet or changing how you're doing things psychologically. But he would adapt every year and grow everywhere. Because in you, if you stayed the same, you wouldn't be successful the following year.


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[Assistant] And he wasn't satisfied with being six-timed or seven-timed while champion. He wanted more and more and to get more and more. It's not a numbers game with him. It's personally pushing himself more and more to the limit.


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[Assistant] But that, that culture, there's a reason why Mercedes went on to win eight. It's really hard to win eight. You've got to keep everyone aligned with the direction travel you're going in.


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[Assistant] And it's tiring to a level that I, it's hard to get across. One day, hopefully we can sort of talk about this. It'll be a whole different podcast, but.


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[Assistant] You've got to maintain a level of operation that is just incredibly high. There can't be a second of let down relative to it in order to keep going. And year on year of doing that, it wears you down more and more. It's not cumulative. You don't reset. It just keeps wearing you down.


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[Assistant] You can't celebrate the now. You can't celebrate the success you have, because if you do, you fall behind.


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[Assistant] The main thing for me is this, this team, it will take a bit of time to build this momentum.


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[Assistant] You should look back one year before and be proud of the journey you've been on, but see large, tangible steps. And more importantly, you can see why those steps will then lead forward in the future.


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[Assistant] I think was the time when Red Bull wanted to be more involved. They didn't want to be just sponsor. It was a lot of clashes regarding that. Sauber didn't want to lose the control of the team. Uh, I was coming along and I was one of the reasons for the splitting and also Sauber that they were inclined to favor Kimi.


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[Assistant] I'm jobless. At the age of 23, 24. And I realized, I don't have a helmet. I don't have a overall. After two seasons in Formula One racing, I was sitting in my apartment in January, jobless, without a helmet, without anything. I could not even do my job.


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[Assistant] Really happy to be here with you and I heard about the show and it's great.


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[Assistant] He started last year a little bit late, but he's doing good. He's progressing. He's racing in California. He's racing in national levels in United States. He's doing great.


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[Assistant] One races, one races in the wet, which I like, one races in the dry. And now, uh, we're going to take a shot in Italy to see how he does against the most competitive kids of his age and so on.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yes, I can. I can remember that. And, uh, that was a special day for me. You know, your first racing Formula One, you'll never forget. I didn't forget any of those. Wasn't many. I wish there were more, but I remember that day and it was, uh, I believe I was beside, uh, Fernando. He looks so young.


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[Assistant] We are all young and you know, I think that's a great picture. I think that's a very, uh, let's say good rookie class.


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[Assistant] Uh, I knew Kimi because we fought for a seat at Sauber. I knew all of them. But, uh, let's say at those days, friendship between drivers were not very common, I would say. You ask about Juan Pablo if he was supportive. I think for him also, he was a rookie going against Ralph.


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[Assistant] He was, I think he was looking for his own career and yeaah, as I was.


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[Assistant] Uh, we couldn't know about it, but uh, I think it was a little bit more rivalry at that time. I think it was a little bit, uhm, I wouldn't say hostile, but there is a saying in Brazil that we have, we say, I bring my friends to the racetrack. I don't make friends in the racetrack. So I think it was a little bit this way, you know?


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[Assistant] I was ready to race at that time. I have done, uh, two years in 3000. My second year, I was a test driver for Sauber. Compared to those days, I did a lot of testing because I would say between 12 to 15 days testing.


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[Assistant] I knew the car, I could be fast on the car and I think I was ready to go to the big show, you know. Uh, I felt ready, I spoke with Red Bull and we all felt ready and uhm, that's how it was.


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[Assistant] It was not like a real straight fight between me and Raikkonen. I think it was the time when Red Bull wanted to be more involved. They didn't want to be just sponsor. You know, you see how they are today.


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[Assistant] And I think it was a lot of clashes regarding that. Saubert didn't want to lose the control of the team. I was coming along and I think I just was in the ballpark and I was one of the reasons, but I don't think I was the main reason for the splitting and also


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[Assistant] Yes. No, I had a, I had that test, uh, the month before.


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[Assistant] I felt that the tension started to rise between mid-season. I was sort of like going against Mika Salo all the time. You know, I was pushing, of course. I wanted to do a time for myself. Red Bull wanted me to push.


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[Assistant] Sometimes I think that, uh, was this sort of like atmosphere about a shootout between the two drivers. So I started to go a lot against Mikasalo. I went against Diniz in Mugello the month before in September.


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[Assistant] I was supposed to do a three days test only myself, which would be the last test for the team before the end of the season.


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[Assistant] And Kimi showed up at the test, which was not on the schedule, and then we start sharing the car. And, uh, you know, in Mugello, September, mid September in Italy, you drive in the morning, you have a second and a half, two seconds in your pocket. You drive in the afternoon, the track is lower. I drove first day in the morning, he drove in the afternoon, second day we swapped.


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[Assistant] I had more, a lot more experience than him. So even on the second day driving in the afternoon, I was still faster. And then the third day he drove in the morning with a bunch of new tires. I just drove in the afternoon and we had a.


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[Assistant] He didn't say anything to me because he was another try, other day on the test. The conversations were going more between Helmut Marko and him. I felt like that I wouldn't belong in the team. You end up at Arrows. Yeah. Just tell us about the journey that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we knew we couldn't get in Sauber, uhm, I got invited by Pros to do a two-day test in Barcelona.


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[Assistant] Me, I was Oriol Servia, Servia supposed to be Pizonia there. Lazy was doing the reference time and so on. Sarazan was at the test too and I ended up being the fastest.


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[Assistant] And, uh, I could be driving the Prost for the next season. We were really, really close, but Masacani came with a big budget from PSN, from Argentina, and, uhm, they couldn't say no to the sponsorship.


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[Assistant] So they offered me a test drive contract, which I would get in the car on race four, because they had a sort of like a performance agreement with him that I was told. After three races, they could keep the sponsorship and replace him in case he wasn't matching the performance clause, which they told me that was going to happen.


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[Assistant] I was really close from that seat, but the problem in that situation was that the third race was in Brazil. And Red Bull wanted me to be in the third race. Also for him, being an Argentinian driver, the third race was very important.


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[Assistant] So they wouldn't back out on the third race. And that was the deal breaker. Because Red Bull wanted me on the third race. Taking the car on the third race. And I don't know if we should be saying this.


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[Assistant] No, no, no, it was always Helmut. Yeah, Matasic. Yes, it was red, blue, red, blue, yes.


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[Assistant] I was depressed. And, uh, I remember, uh, I was at Kitsville, ski race. I was sitting in a table with Raul Schumacher.


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[Assistant] I was hearing from Marco that they would take me to Minardi to race alongside Alonso. Minardi at the time wasn't that great.


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[Assistant] So, Ralph was a little bit like joking about, you know, all those funny not funny jokes about it. And I was feeling a little bit depressed, of course. I didn't want to go for the third year in Formula 3000 because I, I felt that if I would do my third year,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would be sort of like a recycled driver and I would not make it for low-end. Everything was going away for me to drive in the 2001 season.


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[Assistant] And if I would have done another season in 3000, I just felt like also Red Bull felt that this would just disappear in the air. So in that ski race, Tom Walkinshaw was there with Daniel Aldeto.


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[Assistant] So we chat about stuff, but not about me joining the team. And a day later, uh, actually I'm in Graz in Austria because I used to live there because I was a Red Bull driver and Dr. Marco calls me and say, where are you? You have to go to the airport straight away. You will drive for Arrows next year, but don't tell anyone when you get there.


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[Assistant] Uh, the signing was done, uh, two days later. In, uh, I went to Leefield.


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[Assistant] I did the seat fitting, I was supposed to be the new test driver for the engineers, for the mechanics and so on. I slept the night before going to, I slept at Aldeto's house and we took Tom's plane at 6am, flew to Salzburg.


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[Assistant] We signed the contract at Salzburg airport in the conference room. Uh, Matasic and Helmut were waiting there and the lawyers and we signed the contract there and that day Tom flies me straight away to Barcelona and I get on the racetrack at 4pm. The track closes at 5.


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[Assistant] I always had a very good relationship with him. He was really supportive because I was the first one. So they were not that big and, and, uh, he was actually quite involved. He'd been to my 403,000 races when I was in pole position in Barcelona. He was on the grid beside my, my car in a 403,000 grid.


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[Assistant] Which is not a Forma 1 grid and, uh, actually my first Forma 1 test.


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[Assistant] With Sauber, uh, in 1999 in the money course, which was sort of a little bit like a real test for me because we had a very bad season in 1999 from 2000.


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[Assistant] So it was sort of like, hm, it's the driver, it's the car, it's the driver, it's the car. I was beating my teammates, but maybe they felt my teammates weren't good enough, so reference wasn't there, and actually when I went to drive the Formula 1 for the first time was not


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was a faster guy, but I did too many mistakes. I did too many mistakes. I was a little bit very mature. I wanted to prove that I could win every single race. Either I was winning or crashing and sometimes people crash me out. It was not my fault.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So imagine if you win 7 races in British Formula 3. You win a race at Marlborough Masters. You win a race at Macau. You have some options, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the end of the year, and I had some options. I had some invitations from Junior McLaren. I had invitations. I could have signed with, with Petrobras to drive for Supernova in 2000, which they were always pushing for me. And one day I get a phone call at home in Oxford.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And was some with Marco and he said, could you send me your CV?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the guy with Gianfranco Debellis, which was helping me, like sort of like managing my career at the time, comes to watch my last race in Silverstone and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's going to sleep in my house and he sees the name Helmut Marko and he said, why is this name here? And I said, well, yes, he called me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't, I had no idea with who I'm talking to. And he said, what? Did you know who this guy was? I said no.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you drive well, which you have been doing this year, so they will bring you to Formula One, because it was all written.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I went to Graz, I met Helmut, I got the offer. I had to go to Macau to race Formula 3 in the following week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, before going to Macau, I went to Austria, to Salzburg, and I went to the Red Bull office, uh, headquarters at the time. That day I met Didi, and uh, he was there on my signing, and uhm, actually Helmut said to me, uhm, why are we signing you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's hard because I won many races, I thought. I won the, two years before I won the European Championship in front of Renault. I won many races, uh, Zandvoort, race Macau and so on and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said, no, not because of that. I'm signing you because the way you lost. I could never sign a driver that runs away from a fight. And I can always polish a fast driver. I can never speed up a slow one. And that was, uh, yeah, that stayed with me. And that's how I race with him. Like, uh, like, uh, I had green light so I could really push.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The problem is that uhm, they had nowhere to take me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't think that I earned that for free and was a free ticket because surviving with Dr. Marco and the way he is taught me a lot. But also I was under pressure all the time. I had always people coming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He would always take us to, uh, to a track called Pannonia Ring in Hungary on my Formula 2000. I've been put in the car with Thomas Enge, Christian Albers, André Lothra.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Always new drivers coming and always the excuse was, oh, when I have a second driver. But actually they were testing me, you know. If I wouldn't have outperformed them, the chance wouldn't be there for me, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For sure. They, they had the full budget and the results wasn't, for some reason were not coming. You know, we could have won Barcelona, could have won Nürburgring, was leading. The championship would have been different, you know. I wouldn't be a rookie that gets to Formula One after finishing 14 or 15 in the championship. I would have been third.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The worst. So, things would have looked differently and also for everyone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They need to be secured that I was fast, so I've been put to test many times and those test days made my career. I took my chances, I was good under pressure and that's how I made it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember speaking with Helmut and we were happy, because Eros the year before was faster, was a better card than Sauber.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we end up in a faster car. We were, we were happy. We're not like disappointed, like, oh, didn't happen with Sauber. Now we, we are going to a second or third option. We are going to something better, we thought.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Walkie Show was, was actually a little, he was nice with me, but of course I was his driver, but he was also a bit ruthless, you know. As everybody knows, the sport is like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was, he was a racer, for sure. Tom was a racer, and he...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he always kept me under pressure. He, we didn't talk much, uh, it was not like so much like, uh, him helping or supporting me, you know, uh, because I was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was a Red Bull driver also, so I had a helmet, I had, uh, the support from other side. He was more like a team owner. When I wouldn't perform, uh, he would be pissed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a closer relationship with Daniele Audeto, which was number two in the team. We still talk today or now and have contact and that was uhm, that's how it was. You know, it was a little bit like I had like sort of like two bosses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Somehow we were fast in winter testing and we had very big expectations for the beginning of the season. We thought being top 10, but we got to Australia and the music changed completely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Apart that the car, the performance was not quite the same as the winter testing, maybe we were driving light compared to the others.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rehabilitation of the car, the Easy Attack engine was bringing a lot of problems. The car was breaking all the time, hydraulic problems. It was difficult to get the, the, the ultimate result, which is the race. It was very difficult because I was almost never there, uh, to finish the race. Sometimes I was retiring in lap three, lap two. So I really focus, how can I?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If would have been top 10, I would have scored quite a few times points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember I finished, uhm, I think eight in Hockenheim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my engineer was so pissed. He was like, how come you don't catch the guy? But I think it was Button, he's driving a Renault and the car is completely different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I finished 8th and my engineer wouldn't look to my face.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Looks like a carnival in the team, you know. Celebrations and so on and so on and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I think, uhm, I had enough experience. I've been racing for five years in Europe. For three years I did support races from the Renault European Championship and then two years in 2000.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Been driving the Sauber for the whole year, uh, the year before. I, I knew what to expect. It's always, always a little bit. When you're racing, the pressure is, is humongous. It's, it's really, really, it's really, really high when you become a Formula One driver. Every day you put your hand, you have to kill a lion, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He also was a type of driver that, actually, the way he drove I liked, because I like aggressive drivers. He was very, very good on lap one. He was very aggressive at the start. Our driving styles wasn't very similar. I was much smoother with the steering, with the brakes, with the throttle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was a very good driver in the race, I would say. How fast? Maybe I was faster because I beat him on the qualifying, you know. I think also I learned a lot from him, uh, on the, on lap one he was really good. Did you have a good relationship? At the beginning, yes. Oh no, what happened? We are, we are, we are friends now, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had a dinner at Stumble 2021. It was sort of like the old guys, me at the table, me, David Coulthard and Mark Webber and him. And we were drinking some wine and of course people started laughing and so on. So we had some chats.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That things start to blow away is that in Austria, he crashed on Saturday morning, free practice. When you drive for a small team, you're competing mainly against your teammate. So I'm driving and I see the orange car there on the barriers or on the gravel. And I go like sort of like, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As soon as I stop, I'm giving the feedback to my engineer. My engineer say, ah, so, uh, get out of the car. I thought they would change something under my seat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So once I get out of the car, I see yours with the helmet just beside my car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The second free practice from Saturday morning, we had two practices. He does like the last half an hour in my car. And I was pissed. Comes to the qualifying and I out-qualified him. I was sort of like happy about that. In money course he blows the engine on Saturday morning. And they give my car to him. And I'm watching from the motorhome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's driving my car for the whole Saturday morning. How did the team explain this? They explained that he was there with the team many years, that he was the number one driver and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's how it goes. Also in, in, in Monaco, uh, 2001, a race that everybody talks about, uh, I had to let him pass. They came in the red and say, let Dios by. Uh, I passed him on the lap one and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lap two, I was getting radioed already, let yours by. And we still had 76 laps to go. Rivality starts to raise, now he gets my car, but I'm the rookie, I qualified ahead of him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even though he gets my car, so we start to clash a little bit, and uhm...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My racing engineer was Italian. My engine engineer was Loran Mekis, and it was his first year in Formula One, and he's fluent in Italian. And my date engineer, he was from Belgium, but he was fluent in Italian. So once the, the rivalry starts to raise in the team, we only spoke Italian.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we were talking about the setup or talking about what we're gonna do and about what we're gonna try to do to beat him always in Italian so they would understand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he goes to the restroom and he got stuck on the toilet. I had to, yeah, he had a little boot, plastic boot, child boot, and he got stuck in the, in the toilet. I could hear some noises and I'm, and he's not coming out. And I go in and, and actually I took him, boot stayed. And I gave him to Sophie, to his mom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think, uhm, Max is only 25 and he has achieved, I think he passed Senna on the wins already, so it's a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He is really really fast and also, also what I like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The most about him is the mindset of domination against his opponents. It's like they go to try to block him or try to pass him and it feels like they know in their heads they're gonna lose. He will come up ahead and the way he just breaks so late and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get to the side of the guy and the guy can do anything. It's just, he's there coming from such a long way back and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He did that many times. He did that when he won the championship the first time. He did that to many, many drivers and, and I think his mindset, his domination, it's really, really impressive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the time he, he also was behind me for the first...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody say what was your best race in Formula 1? That was so great and so on and so on. You hold a guy that had a two and a half second faster car than you and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, the track also helped me, you know. It's not that I'm holding him in Monza or in Hockenheim. But, uh, what I think as a compliment for me is that I was under a lot of pressure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had no power steering on my car. That thing was heavy and I had a car, the pole sitter going all over my mirrors and I didn't do a mistake. I think that that's what I take as a positive point for me. It also was really difficult to manage how


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To let Schumacher, Rubens, Ralf, the leaders lap us without making him pass. So I always had to plan. Honestly I wasn't planning to hold him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I saw him, I had to let Yoss pass. So I was pissed. And then I see Coulteron in the back. And I'm thinking, oh, two laps, one lap, he will pass. He tried twice, admirable. And I led the space. But I think he was not...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Convinced. Maybe, you know, I was a rookie, maybe he thought this guy would just turn on me, you know, something like that. And I saw him and I wouldn't turn on him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By doing that, by letting him the space, I touched the marbles and I almost crashed. Twice, admirable. And that sort of like pissed me off. I said, well, I let open twice and I almost crashed. Now I'm not gonna let open anymore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I grow, I like the, the, the feeling growing to me to, to fight against him. And uhm, yes, that's how, how he was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That the tube was touching my, my, my mouth was hurting, so I pushed a little bit and slide out of the helmet. So, I had Coulter behind for 44 laps. I had no power steering. I had no drink bottle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After a Monaco race, I was completely exhausted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I have the car break down at the end, just before the tunnel, so the medical car brings me back to the pits, and I go to the, to the Scrutineum, to the Scales, and you know by the order of the team, so it was Ferrari, McLaren, I have to cross in front of their pits, and I'm dressed in an orange, and an orange


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Overall, so, and I'm thinking just, I hope nobody sees me. I hope nobody sees me. I just wanna walk by and go and get to two arrows. That's what I was thinking in my head.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm passing by walking quite fast holding my helmet and I heard like, oi, oi, oi, like that. I looked around Dennis and I go like, oh my god.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, I remember watching him being Senna's boss. Senna was my idol and Senna's boss and I had so much respect for him and he's, like, the way he's calling me, I knew he was pissed and I said, oh, here we go now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said, uhm, what do you think we're doing today?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said, I had to say, I'm racing, right? That's what I was doing. And he said, yeah, well, if you don't learn good manners to race, because racing the championship leader for 14th place, which was the beginning and then for the 12th place, because people were retiring. So we start fighting. I think I was maybe 16.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said, I'm sorry, but, uh, if you lost the race today, it's not my fault. It's because the cars couldn't start on the formation lap. And then came Norbert Hogg, and Norbert Hogg was screaming half in German, half in English. I couldn't barely understand what he was saying, and I just left.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, I spoke to David, yes, but actually I never had any confrontation with David. We spoke, uh, the following test, which was in Manicur, he came and spoke to me and he said, I understand you are fighting for your career, you are in the back of the grid and, uh, you know, I'm sure you had some radio calls to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm sitting, like, and I remember that I'm sitting and the first question is to Enrique Bernardi, I'm thinking,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm beside Michael Schumacher, David Coulter, Jacques Villeneuve. Why the question is for me? And the question was about Monaco.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course, it means a lot to me. I got a, I got a text from him in that night and say, you did completely right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, I had a sort of relationship with him because during my Red Bull years in Austria, Ralph lived in Salzburg.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, imagine we were like two drivers. There's not much to do in Salzburg, so we met quite often. We went skiing and I went to his mountain house and so on and so on. So I had a relationship with the family. True Ralph.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In those days. And yes, that was a good, very good gesture from him. I really enjoyed that and, uh, that meant a lot to me. It was a good support. Actually, uh, that night I had dinner with, with Didi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was like a, you know, I'm Brazilian, right? And uhm, I would say that, uh, I got


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Always a lot more support in Europe, either in Austria or in Italy, sometimes in England also, because I spent two years in England, than in Brazil. Being Brazilian is, uh, is hard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's like either you are a hero or you are sort of like a zero, you know? I always felt that way and, uh, I got a lot of more support, like, uh, let's say going to the following race. Actually, I would get more requests for autographs, for pictures. I start to get a little bit more popular after that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Luciano Berti, yes. Was there a great rivalry between you? I think not with Rubens, because he drives a Ferrari. Sure. You know, you can't be a rival. If you drive on arrows, you can't be a rival.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we had some crashes and he pushed me off, uh, twice and, uh, we had some disagreements and his teammate ended up winning the championship, which if he pushed me to help the team, I think he did the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Worse for him because his teammate ended up winning and he wasn't him, you know. We always had this, this sort of rivalry and once we went to Formula One he was driving first Jaguar and then Prost.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, uh, we were racing the same race, let's say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was definitely an upgrade. First time I drove the car I felt, as soon as they came out of the pits in Valencia,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, times that we were doing next year. At that time also because we had...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, how much better? I only finished two races. A lot of problems again, and uhm, reliability problems, and I think potentially we had a way better car. We were overall a better team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, I can't. Because Hans Harald was really fast, you know, the, the being faster than Joss wasn't happening in the second year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Always in a team like Arrows, when a new front wing, a new barge board comes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Always comes for one car. The second car is always a little bit behind on upgrades. That's to be fair to my point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hans Harald was really, really fast in qualifying. I think he's the opposite of Jos. Jos was really good at start, really aggressive, good at the race. Frenzen was more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, really fast in qualifying, not so aggressive at the start, not so aggressive in a fight, but if he has to do the race pace, he would be really, really fast. So different drivers and, uh, but for sure, Hans Harald was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think from the guys that I compare myself on the data, my whole career, I think he was the fastest guy that I ever was beside me in the car, including Sauber, including BR Honda.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, he had a driving style which was, uh, very, very smooth and, uh, I learned a little bit from setting up the car from him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually the way he spoke with the engineers was very technical. He used to have a camera, a small camera in his pocket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, it's quite a funny comment. So, I drive the first time the 2002 Aeros car. I drove the first day, Valencia. So I drove, my comments were like, everything better, better engine, better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody goes to the motor home, Mike Coughlin is there, Sergio Rindland, engineer, so on. And he goes, so, what do you think of the car? And he says, the car is a dog.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We thought we had like a rocket, you know, compared to what we had last year. He said like, there is a mid-corner understeer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to apply so much steering. There is a snap oversteer. The rear wing, the rear wing is stalling. I never drove anything like that in my life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I drove cars which were quite limited. So for me the Aeros was not too bad. And he comes in and says the car is a dog.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, it was quite, we didn't do much during the winter testing. Uh, I got sick. I was overtrained. I was training in the mountains in Austria and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I went to a test in, in Barcelona and after 15 laps, I was completely gone, exhausted. And they took me to the doctor and I was overtrained. So I had to stop for two weeks. So actually before going to Melbourne that year, I had very, very little mileage. I did a 30 laps in Valencia, 15 laps in Barcelona, and I did a full day in Silverstone International.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's it, before going to my first race. And we didn't have the sources to do much testing, much less than the year before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And also I was getting these comments from Red Bull, the car showed to be better and there is no development going on. And I think that was the, the lack of money was quite early in the season. We were lacking some updates, upgrades. We would have sometimes only pieces for one car, not enough testing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was uhm, made clear for us. Don't put the car on the grid. That was an order. We had to fake. We started the lap fast, pushing. And on the last sector, I slowed down quite a lot. Hans Harald slowed down a little bit less. We made sure the times were not in the 107%.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was after the, what, after Silverstone? The problem started in Silverstone. Remember, we didn't do Friday. So we only did Saturday. But Silverstone, we had a good pace. Last part of the race, I think it was P5, P6. I could, I would have scored points there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And unfortunately the car broke again, drive shaft, which is a part that never breaks in a Formula One car, very rarely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a chance to go to Jordan. It was a little bit of a bad timing, really bad timing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As I said, I was prepared to go to, to get to Formula One on the driving, on the pressure point of view.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was not prepared by the legal staff. I wasn't prepared for the politics involved and the bad timing was that arrows went bankrupt. I still had another year of contract with them so I was locked in in a contract because my contract


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was going to be a three years contract and they disappeared after two. So legally I was under contract. I didn't took any measures to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So should be no problem. So I was actually in a very advanced discussion with Jordan until this point knocks the door and oh, sort of they can't hire me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also Red Bull was, because my contract with Red Bull was finishing that year too. So I was more or less like out in the woods without a dog, you know. I tried to do everything myself and that's why I went, uh, literally that's what made me, I think, be out of the grid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think he was able to help me. I think that always has been said that after a while.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I should go with my own legs. And as they had nowhere to put me, they, doors were closed with Sauber. Arrows, which we put a lot of faith and we put a lot of effort is gone. To try to go to a third team for me, I think maybe wouldn't sound very, very good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I didn't know that. After talking with a couple of people, uh, many many years, I found out that that was always been his dream.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe realize my mistake, how big everything could become. Maybe we'll have approach in a different way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, I knew him, yes, but, uh, who made that happen was, who helped me, was Didier Coton. Harkins manager and Olivier Panisse manager at the time too. Well, I, I met Didier in Monaco by coincidence in a restaurant. January 2002.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm jobless at the age of 23, 24. Well, that was that feeling like, well, I feel like almost putting a sticker on my car. I've been a Formula One driver for two years and now I'm jobless. So it was like, no, it was like a really, really bad feeling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I honestly didn't know what to do. Actually I was, one day I was in Monaco in my apartment and I realized I don't have a helmet. I don't have a overall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I call Bell, which always provides me the helmets, and I say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I might need a helmet to test. Can you guys send me a helmet? Yes, of course, they send me the helmet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I said, let's start, first thing you should get a helmet, right? Then I call,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I was in this situation that after two seasons in Formula One Racing,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was sitting in my apartment in January, jobless, without a helmet, without anything. I could not even do my job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very sad. Then I meet Didier in a restaurant and he goes like, hey, what's, what's going on? What's, what's happening with you? And I said, nothing is happening with me. Literally nothing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I say, do you wanna talk? He said, yeah, sure. I said, uh, can you get me back to Formula One? And I got a straight answer. He said, oh, you are four or five months too late. If we would have been having this conversation while you were still racing, probably I could have kept you on the grid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He made that clear to me. It's always difficult to come back. It's difficult to make it, it's more difficult to come back for sure. So the EA goes straight like, says like, I don't know, but you need to do something. You need to drive something. Because nobody will...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Say, oh Enrique, come do a test or come and race for me. If you are sitting in your home in Monaco and it doesn't matter, you promise them that you're fit. You need to be racing. So I said, okay, I have the helmet. I have the suit. I have the, and he said, and I only do formula one. It has to be a single seater, which is fast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I said, I cannot go to Fortnite 3000, so I called Jaime Alguersuari, and I said, which was the president of our world series, and I said, can you find me a team?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, no problem, I find you a team. So, I was just next to a Formula One driver, so it was good for him. One week later he calls me, oh, you can go to that team, they will pay you this amount of money, everything is, I took care of Michelin, will give the, will provide the tires to your car, I will provide the entry fees and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we're gonna get help from, from Nissan and so on and the team is willing to pay you, so welcome. So I start driving and the team actually...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was a very nice team, it was called JD. They became good friends of mine. They were not that good, I have to say. We won out of those two seasons that I did with them. I won five races, always in the wet, could never win on the dry. Which says a lot, the car wasn't that good. But I had fun, you know, finished third in the championship.


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[Assistant] And one day DJ comes to me and calls me and he said, what are you going to be in about a month time? I said, I don't know. No plans. He said, okay, so you're going to go to BAR Honda. You're going to do a,


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[Assistant] Fitness assessment, if you are fit, they will consider you putting you in the car for three days because I think Button has a event clash that he had to be in Japan or something like that.


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[Assistant] Sato I think was, uh, injured and so would be me and Davidson, testing for three days in Jerez. And they, apparently, the, uhm, Mark Ellis, which was the chief testing engineer, called my former


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[Assistant] Uh, Formula One engineer and apparently they put a good word and they, they put me in the car and they said if, if you do well in these three days, I might get something out of it.


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[Assistant] Well, I drove the rest of 2004 and all 2005 testing for them. Did over 22,000 kilometers.


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[Assistant] The best car I ever drove. Really, really good car. And the engine was so powerful, it was like a rocket. And that was no doubt the fastest car I ever drove in my life.


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[Assistant] Well, they had Jenson doing really good, and they have Takuma also doing well, and Honda, so wouldn't be an opening there. But we tried to be there and to stay there, maybe something would open up, but as I said, it's always difficult to come back, you know.


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[Assistant] That I deserve it better than how things went up with Arrowsoul.


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[Assistant] I actually, I became fitter in the time when I was jobless compared to the time when I was actually racing.


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[Assistant] And I think because of that, I think it was one of the reasons why I got in the car and they, and they started calling me, calling me and they offered me a test drive contract. And, uh, yeah, so that's how, how it started. I remember, uh, talking about the performance of the car. I qualified in 2002 at Silverstone.


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[Assistant] I did 22.0 with six or eight kilos of fuel in the car. You had fuel only for one lap. On my fourth set of tire, I did 22.0 and I remember telling to my engineer, I said, I think I didn't leave anything on the table. I think I, no mistake, I think


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[Assistant] That's it. And with BR Honda, I started, I drove that one year and a half later. Haven't sat in a Formula One car since Hockenheim last race with Arrows and has been passed one year and a half and I start with 60kg of fuel in the car. The last thing I want is to crash the car.


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[Assistant] On the first run. So taking really cautious, like not going to the curves, like maybe a meter and the exit of the exits.


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[Assistant] On my first run. And with 60 kilos more on the car and I just saw how you see how the difference on teams and performance, engine, everything. First time I drove a power steering in my life.


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[Assistant] How much did that help? It helps a lot, yes. Do you lose any feel? Honestly, I like it because


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[Assistant] I had a very smooth style of driving, hated understeer. If you give me a car that understeer, anyone can go faster than me, I hate understeer.


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[Assistant] Therefore, my car was always very pointy. And I always used very little amount of steering input. And having the power steering, I didn't lose any feeling, because as I was, I was never applying much steering lock, so just a little bit of steering, so for me it worked perfectly.


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[Assistant] I know it's uhm, of course I would like to have done better. Of course I, I got frustrated. I got sad for quite some time. Almost has passed 20 years and I think differently. Also I did mistakes. When I was inside the car, I gave 110, 120% all the time. I really gave everything while sitting in the car. Was I a complete driver? No.


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[Assistant] You know, I could have looked into more details, even my fitness, my mental preparation to be better, you know, things that I...


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[Assistant] And I see that I could have done better. I didn't do at the time.


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[Assistant] So, inside the car, I think I was good. Outside the car, not that good.


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[Assistant] Yes, you know what I tell him? I tell him, you don't need to be good where I was good. You don't need to win the things that I won. Just don't do the mistakes that I did. Probably you're almost there. Because I did many.


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[Assistant] I'm out of shape to drive that car, so it's not that I go there and I look.


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[Assistant] And I think, oh, I wish I would be here. This is past for me, you know? So that's why I can go, I can enjoy, I can do my job, I can...