[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's game over and I'm just gonna ride this thing out and it's like he relaxed his body, just let the bike do what it's gonna do, but can you believe that saved?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you answered, you answered your, your answer to this question on Hunter's save. Uhm, I, I know you probably just love this question, but he also says, what's your best save?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I tell you where, hey, you wanna get saved, like for me personally, watch 2001.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, New Orleans Supercross, it was, I don't know, maybe seven, eight laps into the main. You gotta, you gotta watch it. I don't know how I saved it, but, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it was after a triple, then there was a single.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I come up short and I was just, yeaah, like kinda, kinda to Hunter's Point, just along for the ride and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't know, don't know how, uh, don't know how I did it, but I was able to email. So that was, I don't know if that was my best save.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, no, no. I mean, that's the thing, like, I will say, we appreciate the question and everyone, uhm, and we're in your interaction.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's such a tough question, I think, for anybody, because along the way, I mean, if you don't have a moment that sticks out in your head,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right then and there, I feel like it's so hard to answer and you think of the countless races that we've been in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the practice sessions that we've been in. It's like, unless someone reminds you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think if you look at his season, there's a lot of positives to take away and go into that 2024 season, I believe. I think he's been pretty impressive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that's enough on, on Atlanta. We beat that one, beat that one down. All great stuff. The boys keep giving us some great content to talk about. We got some great fans that follow us on title 24 and, and on our personal Instagram and Twitter pages. We appreciate you guys. Uh, before we get to the quad lock question of the week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's thank our great partners, United Motorsports. Uhm, they got everything that you need. Go online, check them out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, if you want, uh, if you want a little discount, uh, promo, you can use promo code TIDAL24. It's site-wide. Uh, they got it all. Check it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Six locations across Ohio and Kentucky. So if you're around that area, pop in there. If not, go on their website. Uhm, they got it going on and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] BoxoUSA, BoxoUSA.com. Remember, you can use our promo code for them as well. Uh, lifetime warranty. They'll get you dialed. We talk about their product every single week here. Um, fantastic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fantastic stuff. Great quality. Uhm, like I said, I know I talk about it every week, but the lifetime guarantee is pretty sweet and it's super easy to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To get a replacement and then last but not least, uh, quad lock case, um, great cases, have all your, uh, mount needs, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cases, screen covers, phone chargers, my kids, I got my kids a whole bunch of phone chargers. Uh, they, I, I personally like that. I think it's good. Uh, check them out, quadlockcase.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we appreciate all of you guys. We appreciate, uh, appreciate your support. We've got some great partners and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of our listeners and viewers, check them out. So, there you go. Uhm, let's see here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have all these questions and I really liked this question that, uh, that Nate brought to us. He says, which, he's asked me which, which current riders, 450 or 250, remind you of yourselves?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Writing styles, charisma, track breakdown. And at first, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reason that I almost overlooked it was because, and I want to, I want to hear what you have to say also, RV is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was overlooking it because I don't think there's any rider today in today's generation that really


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would have been same to me, and I've always told close friends around that, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] RV and I, I always felt like RV was closest to my style than any other rider.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the paddock, uhm, I think we had a similar stature.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, he, he steered with the rear end. I did that a lot. And, and quite frankly, we were just, uh, we were just there to, to take care of business. Uhm, you know, I know a lot of people always said I wasn't having fun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was, winning is always fun, right? But I just felt like you were willing to ride that ragged edge when you had to, but it was a calculated edge. I feel like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your, your competitors knew how tough you were and I felt like I had some of that same stuff as well. So I feel that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no one in the current, in the current generation of that, of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It has that, those kind of qualities. I wouldn't say qualities, but same isms, if you will.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that, to answer your, to answer your question, Nate, for me, I feel like, uh, like, like RV would be the guy who I think I would have more similar characteristics. Uhm, so that's it for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Soxo, slide into the, uh, title 24 DM, we'll get you, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, we appreciate your service, Nate. Appreciate the heroism, man. Awesome stuff. Before we say goodbye here,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, let's do a quick, uh, preview. East Rutherford, I think, you know, hey, listen, the 450s are gonna do what they're gonna do. Uhm, I'm looking forward to the showdown. Uh, Jett, Hunter, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what, I think Hunter's title's on the line, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think we're gonna see, I think there's gonna be a wild card. You think Hayden Deegan could get in there? You think he's ready for a win?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I think we, like, there's gonna be so much talk and so much hype about the Hunter and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hunter and jet battles, but dude, like I hate to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hate to deflate everyone's balloon, but those guys are so smart. I don't think that they're going to put theirself in a situation, uh, that they don't need to be in. So that battle that we're going to want to see.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I hope we get to see a battle, but I don't know that they're gonna do anything silly to jeopardize what the big picture is. That's kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I expect from the guys, I don't, like I said, I don't need to be a downer, but, uh, those guys are, their, their IQ is so good. And there's a lot at stake because if Hunter wins, he could win the championship this weekend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep, no doubt. It's going to be exciting. I'm sure they'll give us some great content to talk about. The 450s will, but certainly it's getting down to crunch time. The showdown is always fun, so we'll have a lot to talk about. For Say Goodbye, hey, a lot to look forward to this weekend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, it starts Thursday, SMX Insiders with Jason Wygant, Daniel Blair. Check them out. You can find it on YouTube. Then Saturday, Race Day Live gets kicked into action 1.30 PM Eastern Time. Check that out. Gonna be good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nine minutes later, grab second screen, watch MotoGP from Kota on NBC. And I'm raising my race in case you, uh, didn't see that guys were going all over the place. It was, uh, it was nuts. After that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jump on Peacock early, we've got a pre-show for you guys at 6.30 and man, I think this is great. I think this is great RV for the sport.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, to have, have that 30 minute extra preview, uhm, kinda gives us an op- er, the people to dive in and share with our viewers what, uh, what it's about. And then,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The XMX show follows that on YouTube, but nevertheless, it's gonna be good. Who knows, man? I don't know, I don't know who's gonna win this weekend. All I wanna know, all I wanna see is a good race. That's all I got to say, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's right. Well thank you everyone for listening. Uhm, we appreciate you guys. Uhm, gonna try to, uh, next week have a couple special guests.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the show, we're gonna try to get, uh, Jet and Hunter on here. I don't know, I'm gonna have to do some, uh, fancy footwork you're going to. Also, we're gonna have to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're going to have to stretch those relationships that we got, RV, and uh, title 24, and uh, hopefully we can, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Talk shop about the showdown and how it goes. But thank you everyone for listening, watching. Thanks again to our partners, United Motorsports.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Quadlock, Boxo USA, we appreciate you guys. Uhm, also be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Special Pre-Race Show starts at 6.30 PM on Peacock this Saturday. You won't want to miss it. Appreciate everyone for tuning in to Title 24. Make sure you like, subscribe, send us those questions. We'll do the best that we can to answer as many as we can and we appreciate all the support and until next week, we'll see ya.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Absolutely, is it, is it the best it's been for racing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have to do what I can to manage, you know, and not take unnecessary risk and, uh, I guess at this point my goal would be podiums.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hi folks, Lee Diffie from NBC Sports here. If you truly enjoyed what you just watched, you can get more news, interviews, and highlights by subscribing to the Motor Sports on NBC YouTube page. You can get it all, so go for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I was smart, you know, I kinda, I seen some spots I couldn't went for the move, but knew me, right? Right? There was a few spots, but you know, how many days I'm clean in my now?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was going for it, but then I just be clean. Did you think about it though? Did you consider it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This was such an amazing race, like I can't even talk right now. Uhm, I had to grit it out all the way till the end. Uhm, the track was brutal and Justin was coming and I got screwed a little bit by lappers but I just held on and I said one more lap, just one more lap and one more lap and we got it done tonight. I mean, I have to give it up to all my guys in the corner, like they have worked their asses off and uh, so have I. And it shows that it pays off, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, what a historic night I think it was for, first of all for the team, right, for Suzuki, and for me personally, for some reason, like, I feel like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm so glad I was able to accomplish so many cool things throughout my career, right? Like I may not have like championships over championships, but there were moments that are truly special that only very, very few people, uhm, can get. And uhm, I just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With team Germany, like there's always special moments, but for some reason that one last Saturday night was just, was something that I, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To the, uh, progressive X-Star Suzuki team and we just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, for what it was though, the amount of mistake or the very little mistakes that I made, I was just so happy because that track was made for mistakes, you know what I mean? I mean, it was gonna happen so quickly and so easy and I rode good and it wasn't just handed to me, like we had to execute the start, but then, like you said, I had so much pressure from behind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and when you're, when you're leading and you have this three second gap or whatever it is, and you're the first person to come to Lapras, right? I feel like once they see the blue flag or whatever, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or hesitation, like you can just see the person coming and uhm, they feed off of that. Like it's just that, you know, you've, you guys have been in it so many times, but you just don't want to ever let that get.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Too many laps in a row where just little things happen and if they latch on and they see that they're kind of eating up your gap a little bit, you know how it is when you're the hunter that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was worth a lot, and uhm, and when you're the hunted one, that is, uh, it's tough to work with at times for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I basically came into the situation open-minded, right? Like I just came from a trip that was super rad and I've ridden so many different bikes and I just went there open-minded. Like I wasn't, I really...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, sometimes being in that situation though, you have all this time and you write other bites and you kind of feel like you want to go a direction, but that's exactly, I was conscious of that and that's exactly what I didn't want to do. So I went there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Open minded and then I let my gut kind of tell me what I wanted to do because when I rode the bike, uhm, I


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then we originally thought so we put in a little bit of testing, tried to, we thought it was going to be so easy to just kind of like figure out what, what tape or what makes it better and what fixes it. But it ended up being a whole like can of worms that we have to open up and really, really dig in there. And that was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, the cool part was is that I, I believe, first of the story behind it, right? Like, I think a lot of people wanted to see it happen that I win. And the team, of course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So and I think that's why it was so emotional for me actually that went as well, that just know me, core, like there's only very few people that know those really, really tough times, right? So that's why they made it so special too. But back to the bike.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ended up being a lot bigger problems and, but I knew that the bones of the bikes were really good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really, really good. So then of course we started racing, right? I was only on the bike for like three weeks or so. Maybe three and a half weeks before we started going to Anaheim. And the base suspension setting that we had was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty good. It was different than what I normally like, but I wrote it so much I got used to it and I was, I was cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, they didn't know much about the Suzuki either, so it just, we were kind of throwing the lions in there again. Uhm, I wanted it that way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I finally have the bike after flipping everything and throwing the kitchen sink at the bike and doing a lot of changes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And figure, and actually we kinda like a similar style bike actually.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have some security and then we just, I don't know, I just ended up working out and we followed our gut and so it's a cool story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, ultimately, great bones on the bike, and that's what I went after, and I knew that I could get it good, that it wasn't gonna happen like immediately, I, you know, kinda figured that, it's too nice to be true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but then you start racing and you have very little time between weekend and weekend, you know how it is, you ride a couple of times. Uhm, I really had to neglect my motos at one point because I was riding till 6.45, 7 o'clock at night, a lot of 5.30 days, 6 o'clock days, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those are, it's a different ball game, right? You're not getting your, your fitness type stuff in, but I mean, I started at 9 AM and I ride till 6 PM. Like that's overall, like your intention span has to be so big.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it also made it difficult because you're going from weekend to weekend and you have late days and it kind of wears on you mentally too, like it burns you out a little bit in a sense of like, I wasn't that excited going to the track and go ride and race, you know, but, um, I've been in this game now also for a while and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I feel like I've been a little bit on those shoes before and I stayed calm, stuck with it and, uhm, made some precise changes to the bike that luckily worked out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then now I, you know, just before Daytona, I figured something out. I left it then went to Daytona, rode all last week, just doing my motos and like stick. My dad's actually here right now. So that's pretty cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've been riding together and, um, things have just been pretty cool the last couple of weeks of riding and that's ultimately why I think I thought we saw the biggest change in my racing side of things. Daytona, I couldn't really show it yet. Bad Star, like it just wasn't, I don't know, it just didn't happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I believe that, hey, I'm actually in a good spot and I've left the bike ever since. I haven't done a click for a while now. We made a little change from press to race day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wrote Chiz's Setup in Oakland, but that uhm, I just, I wasn't very familiar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just, I ride scared and I can't trust it, right? So the more I learned the bike, it just, I finally was able to actually just race and ride and in qualifying, just like focus on the track. I didn't have to deal with trying to set up my bike, test stuff and focus on the track, you know? And ultimately it all came together last weekend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Truly, uh, I talked about it in the press conference, like truly a moment that was so special. Uh, I mean, look, you know, I've been friends with Adam, like really, really good friends for a long time and, but my teammates, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what's so cool about our team also being underdogs and my teammates that they're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a championship. So just seeing all these guys come over with something I have never experienced. I don't know if we've ever seen it really. So it was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Almost a little bit shocking in a way, but I think they just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we both agreed and I'm like, dude, I, I feel either this, the sport used to come a lot easier to me back in the day or something, but like we agreed, like getting on the podium is no joke. It is no joke. So, unreal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's such a cool relationship that we got because the guy is, you know, I mean the whole team, right? But he, like, we just do anything and everything to make the motorcycle better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the amount of hours that he put in, he was right by my side the whole time, every single test pretty much. Uh, and there's a couple of other people that put in like unbelievable work, but, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was right there in the relationship that we have, and then also I had to trust my feeling, right? Like I'm the, you know, I'm riding the bike and we change motor stuff, we change clutch stuff, we change suspension, like, you know, there's so many moving parts on the bike, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we had to make, we had to put in some big swings and, and for me personally, I had to trust the feeling that I had to. And you know, there's sometimes you feel like you find something and you come back the next day and it just doesn't quite feel the same. But that just showed me that, Hey, we are just not there yet because I have to trust my feeling and I have to go off of how easy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I had to trust my feelings and changing so much stuff on the bike, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It basically proved that I feel like I made the right decision that every single time I went on the track, I just, I had the same feeling of like, hey, my bike's actually really good. I love it. Um, I'm having more fun riding and then, um, actually to pull it off and, and get a win and being good and qualifying, solid heat race, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's something I probably value a lot more now too than when I was younger. When I was younger, I felt like I was supposed to win, you know, or, or like, you know, I just, I had to, and now...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When times get really tough and it seems really far away and honestly sometimes you don't even know if...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If it's ever going to happen again, because this is the mecca of the sport. I mean, we're the best of the best when it comes to Supercross and the level being so high and it's so hard being on the, getting on the podium, but to actually get a win and pull this whole thing, this entire puzzle piece, put it all together for us was, yeah, something that I think very few people can experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wanna try- I don't know why I wanted this to happen so bad too when I made this switch, right? But like, I just-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just for the story alone, you know what I mean? So I've just been super hungry towards that and, uh, uhm, let's see, I think we have some exciting things coming hopefully here in the future.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hi folks, Lee Diffie from NBC Sports here. If you truly enjoyed what you just watched, you can get more news, interviews, and highlights by subscribing to the Motor Sports on NBC YouTube page. You can get it all, so go for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why we're interrupting, can I do something terribly rude? I'm making some bread and I have to for like one minute go and turn them all. So like for one minute I'll pop over. Great.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As well, she deserves to. I mean, I would, I would listen to a podcast with her and her alone, if that's how you want to steer this thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Second, it's live action, so I'm like on camera, pencil and paper. I'll have some animations, but just as like the occasional thing that I pull up if it seems relevant in a screen capture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then also it's like directly targeted at high school students, which I aim for most of the videos to be, you know, as approachable as possible. But realistically, I know the demographics, like the majority it's 18 to 24 year old or 24 to 30 year old.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's like the college students and the yuppies. So it's like, all right, I'm going to shift format, do it live and targeted at an explicitly different audience. Let's see how this goes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if that was the only factor at play, I probably would just be doing the normal video style. I think for a while I felt that it might be nice to just do something totally different, especially pencil and paper, just because while I love to animate stuff and visualize it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That doesn't feel like doing and discovering math to me. That feels like presenting an end polished version, right? Whereas just sitting down in a scrappy context with a notebook.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like that's what doing math really feels like or a blackboard or chatting with someone. So having something that I produce actually be representative of, of that feeling and just working through examples. It's like sometimes it's unsexy, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have a good friend, uh, one of my closest friends I used to work with at Khan Academy named Cam. He's building this product called Item Pool that's aimed at just being a centralized resource for, um, basically question and assessment items and things. And then he, and then together with another


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This person, many listeners might recognize the name of Ben Eater, who does a number of things, but among them runs a YouTube channel about computer engineering.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tweaking that particular tool to be like useful in like this sort of live stream context.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kind of as a way of launching the product slash just getting some usage and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being an excuse to like get what he wants made made, even though it wasn't originally


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so he pulls up this question and you see it on the corner of the stream.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you see these bars showing some statistics and so like I put my answer in and one of the bars changes, like the action of mine changed what happened on the screen. And it's showing like the first place, most common answer, second place and such, but you don't see what they are. So you might see, oh wow, like 50% of people think it's some answer, then it's evenly distributed among the rest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he can reveal, be like, oh, looks like most people chose C. Let's discuss. But a lot of you still were saying, hey, that's a common misconception. We can go into that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly. So you can know if there's consensus, but you can't know what that consensus is around until.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're actually guiding the class as it's intended to the full time changes, like how much, how long people stick with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a good question. I mean, so I'm not CGP Grey to the extent that I can infer the personality type there, but I do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess I like when I view a character like Matt Parker, um, and just like his live performances and such.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I don't know if envy is the right word, but I have the feeling of like a kid who's like, wow, I, I want to be like you when I grow up. Um, it just seems like such a compelling skillset to be comfortable in an environment like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I know that that's not me naturally. Uhm, certainly like the first few talks I gave, I think we're not, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, didn't necessarily go swimmingly. So I know that's something that I want to get better at. That's one of the reasons behind this. It's weird to put yourself front and center because it's, it's so easy to see how normal YouTubers become vain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you're like prepping, you're like, oh, is the light right? I'm looking like, man, is my forehead really that big? Like there's all these thoughts that I never usually have that are centered around very shallow things, right? Like appearance or.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you going to make mistakes in things? It's a little unnatural to maybe get that out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the same time, you know, like I said, uh, real math feels like just going through paper. Real math also feels like making a bunch of mistakes and, uh, hopefully being kind of jovial about that and working from them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is how it is. This is who I am, kind of up on screen out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It'll happen though. I'm error prone. Everyone is. That's going to happen. I am a mildly terrified maybe, but I think there have been some other times that I've, I've watched like a YouTuber make a video, an educational one, and then they have some kind of followup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is about their own misconception. That's like pretty uncharacteristic. Most people don't really do that. They'll just sort of like shuffle it off as an error correction of the description.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or worst case they'll like take down the video and put it up and kind of rewrite history. But in the times that I have seen someone be like, you know what? I said this thing that was wrong. Here's what you guys told me and here's what I learned. I just felt myself feeling such respect for that and recognizing like, wow, that actually was a way better experience for me as the viewer than it would have been if you just retroactively changed it so that it was always correct. So again, in the same way that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be more comfortable with that because it's not natural for me, I think, to know that there will be a big mistake that leads us down the wrong path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His perfectionism and a little bit more comfort with live action shooting translated. I'll give you an illustration of what it looks like if I do things left, um, on my own. Okay. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I was earlier this week, uhm, just playing around with the broadcasting software to try this out and anytime you download new software, just kind of poke around and try to see how it works. Maybe a tutorial if you don't find it intuitively obvious.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a public notification event, there was, there is a three second video of me just like staring confusedly at a screen with like a crappy webcam, like clicking once and then clicking twice. And.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I changed it from public to unlisted decently quickly, but because that goes into people's emails and such, there's 50,000 people who have now just watched the three seconds of me like clicking once and then twice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tell you what, you hit the nail on the head for what's hardest about this. I, my goal is to try to teach a high school lesson.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a way that's unusual enough, uh, or like relates to patterns later on enough that even someone who feels like they're pretty comfortable with math.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I learned that evidently the way I was showing things is kind of similar to what some Austrian and German students learn, which is cool, but most school systems have like a different tactic. And, uh, if I can.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even when people are, you know, really into math or they're, they find themselves like, Oh, can you please go into this complicated topic or such? Like the reality is math is hard for all of us. And even the seemingly simple stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if I would comfortably use the phrase knock them out, but I'm working on them in parallel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or which are like collaborations in the mix that again, I have this poll of like, well, I really can't delay this too much. So I think really it's just going to mean that I like work more hours for the next couple of months.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is fine, but we'll see, we'll see how realistic that ends up being.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Obviously it's entered the mind. My thought right now is, uh, just run with it for a couple of weeks, see how that feels. If it feels great and like I'm totally comfortable just maintaining that forever and people are deriving huge value from it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Honestly, ask me in five weeks and if I'm sufficiently exhausted, maybe, uh, maybe there's a different answer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what I'll do? I'm gonna go, I'm gonna just leave a note for myself to change that right now. I had no idea that some people could be so very finicky about this kind of thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mathematically. Okay. Well, I'll tell you this. I, the very first one I made was just about exponential growth where I remember looking at the data and being kind of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gobsmacked by how if you excluded China, the rest of the world was following an exponential weirdly perfectly. And it was small enough numbers at that point. I think it was like 20,000 cases outside of China.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How much it ended up affecting lives not associated with the disease but with things like the lockdowns and like turning off the economy and all of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, if you would ask me then, what's gonna, what's the world gonna look like a month from now? I would not have at all have predicted that my trips to the grocery store would be this weirdly apocalyptic situation where like everyone's wearing masks and like told to be away from each other. And you've got these eerily calm voices coming from the inner calm telling people like what the proper protocols are. So it's weird. And I.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to know where my head is right now because mostly I guess I'm just kind of frustrated that testing hasn't become more widespread because it is the case


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At least as I kind of look into it that epidemiology done right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very pro like social distancing and I think it's the right thing to do. But at the same time, it's, it's hard to ignore the fact that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's make a toy model and see what works and what doesn't. And it wasn't meant to have a conclusion per se, but if there was one, it was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Putting that out and kind of adding some extra commentary because I think one thing that's going to become much more part of the discussion in the coming months than it is now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is this perceived trade off of privacy versus global health where what you want is for it to be the case that when someone is tested positive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's just way too slow. There's no, nowhere close to that many resources. So the draconian authoritarian way to do it is to say, okay, seize over the geo location information of your phone, and then we'll find everyone who was also in those locations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which some countries would be tolerant of, but like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, it would be like a very big violation of civil liberties in some people's minds to, to mandate that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now there do exist apps, and I know that Apple and Google, I don't know if they've put them out, but they're working on a collaborative effort to this effect. They implement something called the DP3T algorithm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here's what it can do. If you test positive, you can tell the app, Oh, I've tested positive. And then it will notify the phones of the people you've been in contact. You've been physically near like within a certain distance of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the papers I've read usually have a number around like if, if the phones talk to each other via Bluetooth for more than like five minutes, that's when they exchange this information. And what they exchange looks like gibberish. It's literally pseudo random numbers. They just exchange a set of pseudo random numbers with each other. And then basically your phone sends out a thing that says,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because it's gibberish. It doesn't use your location. It doesn't know who you are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically, in all of the ways that you want, it actually protects your privacy. So to me, this feels like the only plausible end game. Cause we can't just wait until there's a vaccine for very good reasons that will take at least a year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, if you have someone abstractly talk about a set of three ordinary differential equations,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thoughtfully tweaking these graphs and showing the implications of different parameters. I think that can do a lot to make what otherwise seem like maybe not useless.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I loved that. I absolutely loved the experience. So I, it felt very like VIP because this is places that normal people can't necessarily go and you've got Keith there like, Oh, here's a first edition Newton's Newton Principia. I'm like, are you kidding me?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because like, I was, the day after for comparison, I went to Cambridge and you know, they've got their Trinity library and inside this enclosed piece of glass that you can't get anywhere near, there's this first edition for Kippy. I'm like, my hands were on one of those yesterday. This is nothing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was, it was very surreal. I mean, you, you obviously made it a blast too with the, uh, I don't know if you want to tell people that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, it was great. And like, I love how you sort of jived it. The implicit fact that I've walked myself into this with the channel name, right? Like I'm asking for any trouble that I get.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess, well in this case it's sort of fueled by your own passion to some extent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, thanks so much for doing this Brady. I really appreciate helping to get the word out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I expect a lot of you will know Dr. Hannah Fry. She's always a popular figure in number five videos and she's also been here on the podcast before talking about her life and research. But what you might not know is that in 2018, she hosted a special program on the BBC all about pandemics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The show told us of a looming crisis. It even foretold a spiky looking flu virus that would mutate, start in Southeast Asia, and spread through the world with astonishing speed and devastating effect. It would take lives and alter our way of life. It wasn't a matter of if, but when.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two years later, and unfortunately the BBC and Hannah have been making, well, a sequel of sorts, and this time, it's for real. Today Hannah's sharing some of her thoughts about the current pandemic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And why innocent mathematicians will probably end up getting some of the blame.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hannah, last week I had hoped to be in London filming a Numberphile video with you and instead I'm stuck at home and I believe you're sitting in a car?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can hear loads of birds in the background too. It sounds quite lovely in some ways.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Hannah, a few weeks ago, before things got really serious here in the UK, I watched the Hollywood movie Contagion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of people have been watching that, and a lot of people are watching it thinking, oh, this is so prescient, there's so much sort of, I told you so about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I watched another film called Contagion that was made by BBC4, a great team of people. You are the presenter of it. I certainly am. It was broadcast in 2018.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that is crazy pressing, like, it's almost like a joke how much everything in that documentary and all the things you talked about have kind of, are being exactly duplicated now. It's quite spooky, isn't it? Before we talk about it, for people who haven't seen 2018,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But here we are. I might even sneakily play a few clips from it just to give people an indication of how like all these things you're saying about, you know, obviously, you know, it's not a matter of if, but when and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, you know, they're even saying it's going to come from Southeast Asia. This is what's going to happen. This is what it's going to look like. This is what people are going to have to do. And it's like, part of me thought, did they recut this or re-edit this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you seriously think it was as serious as what you were saying? Cause it's almost like, like, you know, like you said, like two years later it's all happening for real.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think that's why one thing that seems to be kind of missing from your 2018 film is the incredible importance that seems to have arisen now?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of testing to get the data. Cause you said, like with those other ones, you almost didn't need to test if the person was really, really sick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is vaccines, there's almost a very hopeful tone about vaccines. It is tempered by the timeframes involved, but you're always talking about if we vaccinate these people, everything will be all right. Or if we develop this vaccine in four months, this will be all right. But it seems like now that the reality has happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Vaccine seems a long way off and seems not a big part of the discussion at the moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a very morbid way, this feels like a little...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Golden era for mathematicians. Like it, like it's strange, isn't it? Suddenly like mathematicians are like in a practical way being treated really important and being, being listened to. Is that a fair comment?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who hasn't got a, who's already had it? Obviously there's a lot more subtlety to these models and complications and watching your special, I see them putting some fancy equations on the screen as eye candy that I don't really understand. Can you somehow give me an idea?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As to what levers and buttons are going into these models that aren't talked about when we do these basic things like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when the mathematicians play with these models and simulate things and come up with what they think's going on, how much subtlety can they then use in the tools that they give to government? Like, it seems a very blunt instrument at the moment. It seems like, all right, now everyone's locked away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now everyone can come out or now we're closing the schools or now we can't or this is how many hospital beds we need is there any more subtle advice that they can give to the government to sort of slightly tweak things or is it always the sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Black or white. Okay, lock everyone up. Okay, now they can come out in June or July or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Does that mean they're going down this herd immunity route or is it more just they don't want people going out of their minds?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll come back to herd immunity in a moment because I do want to ask you about that. A question just popped into my head actually. You were talking about this kind of, this other problem, these other deaths that can happen, these other consequences as a result of lockdown. Are mathematicians modelling that too?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Hannah has now retired inside. She's left the home office because of heat and battery issues. So wish us luck. So I feel like, like a lot of people at the moment have some degree of fear. People are a bit scared, which is completely understandable. Do you feel like mathematicians?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People who understand this at a different level are more scared or less scared? Do you think you're more or less scared than someone who has no real mathematical comprehension of how pandemics work?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well you, you lead nicely into my next question then. Because... You're welcome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exponentials better and things like that. They'd realize how serious this is and whatnot. And I wonder whether or not you think if society was more mathematically literate, that would necessarily be a really good thing at the moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I wonder if they could gauge the risks and understood the numbers better, they might be a bit more cavalier with their social distancing and their lockdowns and their quarantines because they would, they would see things differently. It would be a more considered risk. Whereas at the moment, if you're living in this like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Irrational fear. At least you're going to stay inside and help the cause.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the way, just for the sake of clarity, as the maker of Numberphile, I'm not advocating like, uh, mathematical ignorance in society as a useful tool. I just, uh...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think they lull people into a false sense of security when they see a nice gentle slope, not realizing what they're actually looking at is this god awful exponential curve that's shooting up into the sky like the red arrows.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Italy and America and the UK and they've all got these very similar, just slightly differing diagonal slopes. People are thinking, oh, it's all the same everywhere and it's all quite gentle when in fact what they're looking at is something that should be scaring the bejesus out of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Data and privacy. My, my sister, uh, lives in Singapore and she was telling me about what happens there when someone, when they have problems and what they can do there quite easily is if someone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's them put out the fires very quickly. Obviously this rings massive alarm bells in everyone's heads, including mine, who used to sort of this, uh, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can do all sorts of things. You can figure out who's spreading what. You can vaccinate those people, control those people. You can, you have a lot more weaponry to save lives. Where do you come down on this? What do you feel about this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hannah talking to you about your research, you know, a few times over the years, cause even your normal research often deals with taking humans and groups and society and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Attaching numbers and graphs to thing and then analyzing it. And obviously we've seen a lot of that happening over the last few weeks with the pandemic. I always wonder how much dehumanizing people and turning them into numbers and graphs. Is that a really good way to be making decisions? Because it takes like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It makes your decisions more rational and less emotional or is that a really bad way to make decisions because it takes away that constant thought that these are humans with lives and loved ones and families. We saw this obviously when the whole herd immunity thing came up, you know, just treating people like, okay, if we let this percentage of people get it, this could be good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Make decisions for the good of the many and treat it mathematically, but part of you has to be like, you know, a compassionate human. You know, I mean in a way you are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hannah threw out your contagion special on BBC back in 2018.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was this number emblazoned on the screen several times. It was like this magic number of the number of people that would die in the UK if we had a really bad pandemic. This was two years ago. It was based on the modelling you'd all done. It was 886,877. I wrote it down because it was on the screen so many times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know you've just recently recorded sort of another, another thing with the BBC. I don't know if it's a sequel or a follow-up making this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To kind of making something in the middle of it, like what's different beyond the obvious?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I get this feeling that you, you have this respect and awe for this virus and for pandemics that not everyone quite has. You feel like despite the fact it's all pervading and it's changed the world so much, you feel like people still aren't quite getting it. They don't get it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our thanks to Hannah for joining us today. I'm going to include links to her stuff and some of what she was talking about in the notes for this podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also thanks to the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute for its support of Numberphile.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And finally, thanks to our patrons. You make it possible for us to keep making as many videos and podcasts as we do. You can find a list of current patrons on the Numberphile website. You can even join them yourself by contributing at patreon.com slash numberphile. I'm Brady Haran and we'll catch you again soon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Today's guest is Tom Crawford, a mathematician you might recognise from some of our Numberphile videos and his own channel, Tom Rocks Maths. Tom specialises in applied mathematics and has a PhD in fluid dynamics from Cambridge. These days he's teaching students at Oxford University and has carved out an unusual niche doing outreach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, and occasionally, he teaches mathematics wearing only his underwear. But we'll get to that later.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's, let's, let's move on for now. So, what were you like as a boy? Were you into maths as a boy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Aww, and you missed out. Did you just have a bad day that day or you're not good enough?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're someone, you know, your parents hadn't gone to university, although they, you know, encouraged you, they hadn't gone to university themselves, and you sounded like someone who wanted to be with your mates, you know, you chose school with your mates rather than the posh grammar school further away, it sounds like you could have been someone who would


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Stay where you were, like rest on your laurels. You obviously do have some self-motivation, some drive in you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They hire the brightest minds from around the world which then tackle some of the big questions in finance. It's cutting edge stuff using all the latest machine learning and big data. G-Research is always looking to hire top STEM talent, so if you're good with numbers, mathematics, computers,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This might be the opportunity you've been looking for. G Research take real pride in having a great working culture and want to nurture future talent. To find out more about them, go to gresearch.co.uk slash numberphile.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] G research, create today, predict tomorrow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. How quickly did your perception of mathematics change when you came to university from like, you know, solving problems to that more kind of, you know, proofs and the beauty of maths and things we hear about? Did that hit you immediately or does that come slowly or?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you ever have any doubts when you started at university? Was there any of these sort of crises of confidence or have I chosen the wrong path or did it always feel like yeaah this is cool?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As you came towards the end of your undergraduate degree, what are you thinking? You're obviously starting to develop more specialised interests and thinking about what's next. Tell me how that unfolds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think that was because of an innate interest in the subject, or did you have a particularly inspirational teacher, or?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you got your undergrad and a masters at Oxford. Yes. And then PhD at Cambridge. Cause I fancy to change. Let me ask you about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The study of, you know, rivers and water and all this mushy, messy stuff doesn't seem a good match for the exactitude and precision of mathematics. Is the mathematics of fluid mechanics a bit hand wavy or is it really precise and perfect like I like to think mathematics is?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you're at Cambridge and you're sitting in labs presumably doing things with liquids and water and thinking about rivers and all that kind of stuff that you did, what job did you think you were going to end up doing? What was the plan?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And why, why did that appeal to some northern lad who was studying fluid mechanics at Cambridge?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, the Tom I'm talking to now, and we'll get to this later, obviously, you know, does YouTube stuff and all this outreach. Up to that point, up until you'd received that email, had you already started getting a bit of a taste or an eye for outreach and media and stuff?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was there not a career option for fluid mechanics? Could you not go and be like a, you know, a hydrographer or I don't know what you do?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the BBC thing sort of ran concurrently with your last year of your PhD.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you get to the end of your PhD and you have done this BBC thing. What happens then at the end of your PhD?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you started making YouTube videos, you know, your YouTube channel. We'll come onto that in a minute because there's a few things I want to ask you about that. But you started making YouTube videos. Obviously, that's not an easy thing to make money from. I can attest to that. What did you, uhm, what were you going to do about a job though? What happened?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you were like half time teaching Oxford students, half time just doing your own thing with YouTube content sent through mathematics and that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In case anyone's confused at this point, the way that Oxford University works is it's broken up into all these sort of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Colleges these little fiefdoms within the university so you still kind of working for Oxford University as people would know it just what part of it you come under.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let me ask you about the YouTube videos. You take your clothes off in some of them. This seems to be the thing that you've been, you're known for. Explain this to someone who has not seen one of these videos and tell me why you take your clothes off to teach mathematics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think you would have gone down this path if you weren't like a super fit guy who runs and lift weights and doesn't eat bread and stuff like that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know your parents, but from how you, the little bit you've explained them to me, they seem like practical people, you know, they went into jobs, they didn't go to university, you said, you think partly because they wanted to earn money and start a living.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they've always seemed to have wanted the best for you. What do they think of your path? And in particular, what do they think of the naked YouTube videos? Is this what they wanted for themselves?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do you enjoy the teaching side of things? Does that become a grind? Does that become a chore? I speak to some academics who love their research and for them teaching is a chore. Something they have to do to, it's the pound of flesh they have to give to be allowed to be a researcher. But you've kind of embraced it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think, I mean, I know this is asking you to make a huge generalization,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But what is teaching like, like at places like Oxford? Is the, is the teaching, do you think enough attention is paid to the teaching? Uhm, like, you know, you're obviously trying to do things in different ways. Are all the teachers here trying to do things in different ways? I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course this is because universities get money from the government based on how good their research is, not how good their teaching is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're now in the first year of this three year fellowship. So there is a, there is a, it's still a way off, but there's a clock that's ticking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What, what do you want to do next? What's, is there a next step? Is there an end game? What, what do you want to be doing in 10 years? Will you be wearing clothes?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let me ask you this then, one last question. Would you...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hand back your PhD and sacrifice all your mathematical career to be a Manchester United player. Oh, that's a question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It'll include a list of all his videos on Numberphile, in which I can assure you, he is fully clothed. Thanks to G Research for supporting this episode, see their link in the notes as well, and thank you to the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute for their help. I'm Brady Harron, and you've been listening to the Numberphile Podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hello, I'm Brady Harren, this is the Numberphile Podcast, and today's episode is a tribute to the mathematician Ron Graham, who recently died at the age of 84.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ron was a giant in the world of mathematics, and we'll be talking to various people who knew him well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I wanted to start with my own story about Ron Graham. That's because, without realising it, Ron was a real inspiration behind Numberphile itself. And I'd like to explain why. See, as a boy growing up in Australia, I was really obsessed with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Books of facts. These were things I'd get at the local library and page after page of trivia was listed. And one thing that was common in many books at the time was this number called Graham's number. It was the biggest number ever. Well, the biggest number used in a proof. But that was a minor detail to me at the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was obsessed with the enormity of this number. I remember reading the fact that if all the atoms in the universe were turned into ink, you still couldn't write down Graham's number.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I recycle this fact all the time. I would tell my friends, I would tell my family. I don't know why it was called Graham's number, I think I assumed the person who had discovered it was called Graham. I probably thought Graham was the first name, like Mike.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or Jane. Or Bill. I think it was much later in life I realised Graham was a surname. The chap was called Ron Graham. I didn't know who he was, where he was from, anything like that. I just knew he'd come up with a really big number.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A bit later in life, when I was old enough to be recounting stories to children, I would tell them about Graham's number. I'd use that ink story time and time again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The kids would be wide-eyed. It's such a big number. I would use it to inspire an interest in mathematics and numbers. Just as it had inspired my interest in mathematics and numbers. Roll the clock forward a bit more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a chance came to start a YouTube channel about mathematics. And I decided to call it Numberphile and focus it on numbers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it really was because of Graham's number. That one number that had inspired me for all these years, I thought, wouldn't a YouTube channel all about different numbers be fantastic? Of course the channel has evolved over time, but that's where it started. One of the early videos we made on Numberphile was about Graham's number.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It featured Matt Parker, Tony Padilla, Tony came up with a new fact about Graham's number.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The collaboration started between Numberphile and the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute. MSRI, it's a prestigious place in Berkeley, California, and I was talking one day to the director, David Eisenbud, who knows everyone in mathematics. I told him about my obsession with Graham's number, and he says to me,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, I know Ron Graham. I've got his phone number here. Why don't I call him? Perhaps you could go and meet him and interview him. And I have to say, the idea of meeting Ron Graham had never occurred to me. I have to say I was pretty excited and not long after that, I was on a plane to San Diego and knocking on Ron Graham's front door.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I couldn't believe it. I don't often get nervous or starstruck, but this is one of the few times I was a little bit nervous.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ron opened the door, and it was amazing. He was an amazing man. Totally not what I expected. Sure, you know, he was a bit older, but he still had kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Long blonde hair, quite trim and athletic. He was great company, showed me around his house, told me stories, loved talking about juggling, loved talking about Starbucks, loved talking about his wife who he clearly adored. We then did some filming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm afraid to say I made him talk about Graham's number probably way more than he'd like to, but he was completely accommodating. We did a bunch of other videos, he took me out to the garage, showed me a bunch of Paul Erdos files that he had stored there. He was so generous with his time, and when I thought my time was finally up, he said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you wanna go for some food? Can I take you for a meal? I couldn't believe it. Ron Graham was gonna take me out for a meal. We went to a sushi restaurant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ron drove in his car, which has the license plate number, which I loved. We sat there and talked about mathematics. Now I'm no mathematician, but Ron pitched it right for me. He pulled out some napkins and scribbled down numbers as mathematicians so often do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said, the guy in that is a famous mathematician. He came up with the biggest number ever. And if the whole universe was turned into ink, you still couldn't write down the number. That's how big it is. The doorman looked at this Lexus with number written across the back, driving off into the sunset and just said, that's pretty cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And before we continue, let me just point out a few background points. You might hear people speaking today of fan or fan-chung.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She's a very accomplished mathematician in her own right, but also happens to be Ron's wife.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'll also hear people speaking of the legendary Paul Erdos, this larger than life vagabond mathematician who collaborated widely and lived a strangely nomadic lifestyle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ron was a really important figure in Erdos's life and kind of acted as a business manager for him, handling all things like money and otherworldly issues which were of little concern to Erdos.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Finally, no discussion of Ron Graham will be complete without mentioning juggling. Ron was an accomplished juggler and a big part of the world juggling scene. You'll hear more about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our discussion starts with a close friend and collaborator of Ron, Steve Butler.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it sounds a bit like you sort of at the start you were kind of ingratiating yourself a bit because you wanted to meet the legend and then when he obviously came to know you and developed your strengths you became more of a peer over time and a family member.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tom Layton's the CEO of technology company Akamai and Neuron for over 40 years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mathematician Joe Bueller was another of Ron's good friends.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Steve, after all these years of knowing the name and thinking of him as a kind of mythical figure in your field,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This flair, this showmanship that Ron had, did that also translate into his proper mathematics?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was a proper hardcore mathematician too, though. He like, he was the real deal, you know, with papers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You mentioned that he was the president of a few associations and societies and was involved in those sort of things. Why would that be? Should I take from that that he was like a people person or that he was a political person or that he was a popular person? What is it about a mathematician that has them in those sort of roles?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would he be like the guy in the room? Oh, that's Ron Graham or was he just one of the crowd?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What can you tell me about Ron's attitude to Graham's number?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It sounds like he could have been like a professional athlete in another life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In 2001, Ron was invited by Tom Layton to join the board of Akamai. That's a multi-billion dollar tech company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It seems fitting that the last word today will go to Ron Graham himself. I mentioned he appeared on Numberphile and did a handful of great videos on various topics. I'll link to them in the show notes along with all other sorts of useful resources. But now here's a few words from the man himself captured on that day of filming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, and this would have been in the late 70s, early 80s, and got the chance to work with Ron Moore there. Uh, and, you know, obviously a very talented mathematician.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he spent a lot of time mentoring, uh, young people in the field.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, I was one of the people that really benefited, you know, from Ron's mentorship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Capture the, you know, the mind and say, wow, this is really cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Somebody who can really communicate well and be a showman and really attract interest in you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and it wasn't all just about him proving his theorems. You know, and a lot of times in math,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, Akamai is, uh, based on a lot of mathematics and, uh, we had our talent pool was highly mathematical, uh, and the problems we were trying to solve were highly mathematical.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, from the discrete side of mathematics, and Ron obviously very, very smart guy, uh, and that was his area of expertise, and so it was a very natural fit for him to be on the board of Akamai.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You don't always see mathematicians on corporate boards. I think probably the corporate world would benefit from more, but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he's good at attracting and recognizing strong talent. That's very helpful. He could understand, you know, the problems we were dealing with good business sense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, Ron, Ron was different than your typical director.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and in a good way, and I think a good board is comprised of a lot of diverse talent and perspectives.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Martin's thrown in a bit of a curveball. For 2022, instead of his typical visualisations, he's teamed up with a composer named Gregory Coles to create an album of six pieces of music.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Each based on Pi in a different way. The collection is called 314, of course, and I'm speaking today to both Martin and Greg about all six tracks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Many people, including myself, have been awaiting what visual treat you may, you may unleash on Pi Day. But you've done something different this year. Can you explain what you've done this year and perhaps how it leads into the chap sitting next year?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Musicians are forever telling me how mathematical music is though. It is like kind of, it's, you know, it's an application of mathematics in an artistic way. Are you of that belief?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What have you created? What is the, what is the thing that's about to be, uh, unleashed?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, you're dangerous talking about the last digits of pi. So I'm sure we'll come to that in a minute, but so it sounds to me like initially you had something in mind that was some kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's a lot going on under the hood here, it's not just, you know, a three is a C and a one is a A, it's like, you've really gone deep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Martin, encoding the classic digits of pi starting with 314 is like, you know, that's your bread and butter. That's where it really started for you with your visualizations. How do you feel about how this turns out when it sort of becomes musical and then gets more complicated?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Electronically in this way and haven't done a recording of Greg sitting at a piano or something?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was there much creative tension between the two of you, when Martin would say, you know, here's what the computer spits out, here are the numbers, here's the mathematics, and you sang, oh but this might sound a bit prettier, is there a way to make this sound more musical? Like was there, was there much toing and froing, or was Martin just telling you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These are the constraints, you know, churn it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But what work could you do once you decided...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The rules, surely the numbers just completely dictated what the music would sound like, I mean what could you bring to the party?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I guess deciding what the rules were was also part of the musicality of it. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This episode's been sponsored by G-Research, a world leading quantitative finance research firm based in Europe. They're always hiring clever people from around the world to tackle the biggest questions in finance, applying the latest in machine learning, big data, and top technology.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] G Research is always looking to hire top STEM talent, so if you're good with numbers, mathematics, computers, that kind of stuff, this could be the opportunity you've been waiting for. To find out more about them, go to gresearch.co.uk slash numberphile. G Research, create today, predict tomorrow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's probably for the best though that it's the universe that decided what the actual digits of pi were and not red.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you ever get two zeros that were so far apart it made a note that was too low for the piano?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, if, if, if pi is normal, you'll find an infinite number of blocks that are too long for the piano.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The final track we'll, the final track we'll discuss was named in honour of the great physicist Richard Feynman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So kind of like you did with null, but using nines instead of zeros.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And look, I imagine Martin is going to be doing things with Pi till the day he dies. But I've got a question for you Greg. Absolutely. Okay. I've got a question for you Greg. What about you? Is this the start of a whole new aspect to your music, like mathematics, or is this going to be just a one-time smash and grab collaboration and you're going to go back to the arty stuff?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, that's all for today's episode. To listen to the 314 album, find out lots more about it, check out the links in the notes for today's episode. Everything you need should be there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our thanks to Greg and Martin for their time today. Also thanks to G Research and the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute for supporting the podcast. You can show your own support financially perhaps by donating at patreon.com slash numberphile. Every little bit helps there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm Brady Herron and hopefully I'll be back in your podcast feeds very soon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's finish the show with a little bit more pie from the album.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do not adjust your podcast player. That is a football crowd. To be specific, it's the famed


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Stand at Liverpool football clubs and field stadium.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's because today's guest is Tony Padilla.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now viewers of Numberphile Videos will know Tony as the guy who does all the episodes about the really big numbers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things like tree three, Rayo's number, Graham's number, that sort of thing. Tony's day job is a professor of theoretical physics at the University of Nottingham. But, as a man born and bred in Liverpool, his true passion is the Reds, Liverpool Football Club. The famous soccer team, for those of you in the US.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tony's a season ticket holder and travels to most of Liverpool's home games. That's a good two and a half hours drive from his house in Nottingham. And look, while I'm not in Tony's league, I'm also a Liverpool fan and have long wanted to go to a game with him. So for today's episode, we recorded in the car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sorry about the noise. We're travelling to Anfield to watch Liverpool's Premier League game against Watford.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 4-0 to Liverpool. Alright. I've known you a long time now and I know what a huge Liverpool fan you are. I'm really curious to see what it'll be like next to you during a game. Like, do you lose the plot a bit? Do you get a bit over emotional or are you like pretty calm and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What were you like as a kid? Like when you were 5, 10? Were you like physics math nerd kid? Or were you football kid? Or like what were you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Surely at that point you were a long way from understanding things like proof and some of the more beautiful applications of mathematics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What did your mum and dad do? Did you have mathy influence or like, were you in a family or an environment that really cultured those interests?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What are you, what are you thinking? What are your thoughts? Where are you heading?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So for people like in America and stuff, is that kind of like a bit like posher or more advanced?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tell me about that then, because the Tony I know now is a physicist. I know you love mathematics still, but you're a physicist. Tell me how you went from doing mathematics at Cambridge to being a physicist now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the physics you do now is more mathematical than typical physics? Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How would you describe your physics then? Because you know, you're a theoretical physicist. If you're talking to someone in the pub or in the cop today and they ask about your job, what do you tell them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, there are different ways someone could take that. Some people could think you're trying to figure out how the rings form around Saturn. Right. And other people will think, you know, you're dealing with the Big Bang and the expansion of the universe and there's a whole bunch of stuff in between. How galaxies form, what black holes do, like where, where are you sitting in all the different things that happen in the universe?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you just sit in the bath and think, hmm, maybe this is what's happening, and then...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're really passionate about physics. I can always tell that when I speak to you. You're really passionate about football. Liverpool. I can tell that when I speak to you. Which is your true love? I think you don't answer that. I think we're on our way to now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What would you take? A Nobel Prize in Physics or a first team cap for Liverpool? Normally I would have to update you. Okay, okay, okay, okay, right, okay. This isn't a trick question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How good is it? It's for cracking whatever your dream problem to crack is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, well, you're pre-empting the next level, because the next level was the top tier physicist of all time, Einstein level, or Patrick for Liverpool in the European Cup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of people who watch these videos and listen to these podcasts are real science and math nerds and a lot of them have never really bonded with sport the way you have. Help them understand how football can mean so much to you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is, when I talk to you about football in Liverpool, I find you to be highly irrational.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, like, you know, your dislike for Everton, Liverpool's great rivals, your kind of one-eyed belief that Liverpool will conquer at all times, even if it's got past the point where they can. You're a typical.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I've never quite been able to reconcile that kind of hyper-rationalness of all the mathematics and the physics that mean so much to you and the kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One oddness about your Liverpool fan, and I've never been able to tell whether or not you're doing the whole Liverpool thing with a bit of a wink and like, yeah, I know it's silly, really, but I play the game. Or you really believe it. I can't tell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because that's how a lot of people listening to this will know you. Yeah, how have you found that experience?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, so you've done a lot of physics videos, oh for 60 symbols of course, but also you, you've moved over to Numberphile as well as a favour to me, and you seem to have taken on the mantle of the big number guy, you've done Graham's number and 3-3 and Rayo's, that's become kind of one of your niches on Numberphile. Do you like the big numbers there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Quick break to tell you this episode has been sponsored by G-Research, a world leading quantitative finance research firm based in Europe. They're always hiring clever people from around the world to tackle the biggest questions in finance, applying the latest in like machine learning, big data.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All that sort of technology. G-Research is always looking to hire top STEM talent. So if you're good with numbers, mathematics, that kind of thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe this could be the opportunity you've been looking for. G Research take real pride in the culture they've created. They're keen to nurture future talent. To find out more about them, go to gresearch.co.uk slash numberphile.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now as we go back to the episode, a reminder, another video Tony made on Numberphile was about the sum of all the integers 1 plus 2 plus 3 plus 4 etc. All the way to infinity, whatever that means, you can't go to infinity. What is that infinite sum?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, one way to look at it gives you the answer of minus a twelfth. It's a video many people have watched and commented on on Numberphile. Tony's very familiar with the comments. Let's see what he has to say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of people love that video. A lot of people, it's their favorite ever Numberphile video. A lot of people really dislike that video and have given you a lot of grief about it. How do you reflect on it these days?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How have you found all the emails and criticisms to do with that video, but also just in general, you know, YouTube comments and people taking their poke at you from time to time as, as they will for anyone who has an online presence. Are you at peace with it or are you, are you someone who feels this compulsion to answer back or?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You've written lots of papers in your time. You teach students, lectures, tutorials, all these different things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are only a lot of, uh, physicists and mathematicians I know who have other passions like music or art or things. Sometimes they're able to draw inspiration from those passions to inform their work or in some way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you do that with being a Liverpool football fan? Can you ever be sitting in the cop watching a game and suddenly have some new insight into how maybe the universe works open up before you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was 2-0 to Liverpool. Yeah, still won though, didn't we? Once the books all done and become a bestseller and made you a millionaire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's next for you work wise? What's your holy grail? What would make you think, that was it? You know, I did it. I did the thing I wanted to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They seem, one seems so important and one seems so trivial and... You talk about Liverpool being Watford being important, actually.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Share a breakthrough or an exciting moment to do with your work with your wife.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know your wife's very accomplished with numbers, but she's not a mathematician or a physicist, is she?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With her, because I certainly don't understand the depths of your work when you go deep. How deep can you go, you know, at the dinner table?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you'd like to check out Tony's book, that title again was Fantastic Numbers and Where to Find Them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tony's full name, and the one on the book, is actually Antonio Padilla, in case you're searching for it, but I'll include order links in the usual notes for the show. I'll also link to some of Tony's Numberphile videos, of course, plus anything else that might be useful. Our thanks to the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute in Berkeley, California, for its support of Numberphile,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And to G Research for supporting this episode. I'm Brady Herron, and you've been listening to the Numberphile Podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Today's guest is experimental physicist Philip Moriarty. Feels based at the University of Nottingham.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mainly on my physics channel 60 symbols, but Phil has contributed to a smattering of numberphile videos, perhaps most memorably a heavy metal song about the golden ratio.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyone who's seen Phil's videos will know he's got a strong Irish accent. So I started by asking him, well, a little bit about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you know, in all the years I've known you and all the conversations we've had, I guess we've never talked about this because I always thought of you as a guy who was really like Irish and like, you know, he felt like an Irishman in England and up the English and stuff, but you're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Philip, what do you want to be when you grow up? What would the answer have been?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What would you like at mathematics? This is Numberphile, so I always like to ask people about their relationship with mathematics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another story from your younger days that I always love hearing. I don't know. I don't know if we've told it on a podcast yet or in a video, but about the, uh, you and the communion wafer. This is, this shows that you were destined to be a scientist to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What did you do wrong? Were you just going out and drinking and playing in bands?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were there to do physics, uh, and you said maths, you know, wasn't your, your passion. What was that, what was that relationship like?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I talk to mathematicians more than physicists on this podcast and you know, I'll hear them talk about they got to university and for the first time they understood the beauty of a proof and they saw maths in a new light and all this beauty. Do you have that kind of appreciation for mathematics or for you as a physicist, is it just like a tool, like a screwdriver?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you ever look at mathematics as a discipline? Have an envy for that? Do you look at it and think, oh that's beautiful and different and it hasn't got that kind of messiness and uncertainty that my experimental physics has? Or do you look at it with disdain?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just a quick interlude to thank today's episode sponsor, G Research. This is a world leading quantitative finance research firm based in Europe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] G Research is always looking to hire the brightest people to tackle the big questions in finance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And applying all the latest in machine learning and big data, all that cutting edge stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're good with numbers or mathematics or computers, well, this could be your big chance. G-Research is really focused on creating a great work culture and nurturing future talent. If you'd like to find out more about them and the opportunities there, go to gresearch.co.uk slash numberphile. It's G-Research. Create today, predict tomorrow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going back to university then, after you kind of righted the ship and re-did your third year and got through, at what point did you start seeing a specialisation and where your career was gonna go?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This sounds quite serendipitous, like you just kind of almost like convenient. Did you just do it out of convenience? Cause you wanted a job and an option or was, did you see something in STM that made you think, I love it. This is where I want to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's the advantage of this kind of microscopy over optical stuff and electron microscopes and things we will have been more familiar with?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's called microscopy, and I always associate that with looking at things, but this, this field isn't just about looking at stuff, it's about like building them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've seen some of the machinery in your lab and I've also heard you tell stories and seen you curse and swear at the difficulties you might have. It's a fiddly thing, isn't it? Like it's a bit of a bit of an art form.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wish you could see the look on Phil's face then. It obviously wasn't the easiest job he's ever done. If someone's listening to this and thinking, oh, Phil Moriarty, he's got a cool job, that's a cool life, I'd like to do that, and they're still, say, at school, what would you say to them? How can they get into this kind of world?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You often say, like, Phil and I, before we do any recording, have some very passionate discussions. Not, not arguing, but just like really passionate. Sometimes arguing. Sometimes arguing. As friends. But many times, Phil says, you should be recording this, this is great, but I'm not sure people are ready for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that does lead me to say, you know, you are so passionate and you're like, you know, you're, uh, in a good way, quite a volatile personality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How has that tied in with things like social media and comment sections on videos and that? That's not always been a match made in heaven has it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think they've got the balance right at the moment, or is the balance tilted too far to industry?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another thing that academics often get grumpy about is the way that publication works in science and all the way the money works and you have to pay to get things published and then pay for access to journals and that. Is that, are you, are you relaxed about that these days?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're put together, you would argue they're put together quite arbitrarily using unfair metrics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, can I ask you a question that's gonna make you hate me even more than all of this stuff? Are you ready? Desert Island Discs, what five albums will you take with you to an island? And you have to answer now without thinking time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you, damn you Brady, would you give up your physics career, expunge every paper you've ever written from the records and go back in time if it meant you could be a music star? Oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our thanks to Professor Moriarty for being on today's show. I'll include some useful links to Phil's work, his writings, and some videos in the notes for this episode.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also thanks to G Research for their support and the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute in Berkeley, California. Again, see the notes for some useful links. I'm Brady Harron and you've been listening to the Numberphile Podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was born at a place called Bexley Heath in Kent, so just outside London. Just outside London, like in a hospital or? Bexley Maternity Hospital if you want the more precise coordinates.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I used to know, I think it was a Wednesday, but I'm not entirely sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know, I remember playing with stuff and I remember I had a little wooden, wooden engine I used to like driving up and down the garden and those kinds of stuff. But I don't really remember that much about being, you know, so we moved from Bexley Heath when I was four maybe. And so actually it was kind of, that was very early stuff and I don't have that many memories of that first house at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So my dad was a museum curator, worked in a museum, uh, and my mum was a housewife at the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was, yes, I mean, he was, you know, he was, uh, a senior figure in archeology. He sort of credited with having invented rescue archeology, this thing whereby when the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People thought, you know, whenever you found anything in archaeology, they'd always try and find a rational explanation from it. And his argument was very often there isn't a rational explanation that quite often things are done for ritual reasons, that there's actually, you know, some quasi-religious or ritual thing that you're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So for example, the classic example of this is shoes under floors. Old shoes found under floors. Quite often when you're renovating an old house, you'll find there are shoes under the floor. The rational explanation is, well, somebody lost a shoe.