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[Assistant] Why were you so sure that you wanted to end the contract?


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[Assistant] Can we just fast forward to 2012 when your son tested at Vallelunga for Ferrari? That must have been an


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[Assistant] Well, what was it? It must have been a very emotional moment for you, I guess.


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[Assistant] Now I don't know about you, but lately I've found that keeping a close eye on health, fitness and energy levels feels more important than ever. And as much help as I can get with that side of things, the better. Because I may be able to draw up facts and stats on Formula One drivers at the drop of a hat.


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[Assistant] But when it comes to my own vital statistics, I'm clueless. Which is why I'm glad I've discovered woops.


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[Assistant] Whoop is the 24-7 health and fitness tracker that helps you monitor critical daily metrics like sleep, recovery and strain. You just slip your whoop band on your wrist, connect it with an app on your phone and let it do the hard work while you go about your daily work and exercise routines. Sounds simple.


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[Assistant] It automatically measures your heart rate, calories and activity levels throughout the day. And come nighttime, the built-in sleep coach tracks your sleep cycle so you can ensure you're getting optimum rest for your exertion levels.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Woop team have been kind enough to send me a band to try out, and I can't wait to see what data it pulls in, although I have a sneaky suspicion that I might not be getting the best rest that I could during these Formula One triple headers, but let's see what happens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You don't need to be an athlete to use a tool like this. I'm proof of that. But understanding your body and how important rest and recovery is to your health is important for all of us.


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[Assistant] No matter what our fitness levels, and so if you're interested in finding out more, Whoop is offering 15% off right now with the code GRID at checkout. So go to Whoop, that's Whoop, W H O O P dot com, and enter GRID at checkout to save 15%.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sleep better, recover faster and train smarter. Optimise your performance with Whoop today. Right, let's get back to our chat with Eddie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You mentioned, you know, the Theodore, the opportunity with Teddy Yip. How did that come about in 78?


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[Assistant] So you do two difficult races, or you didn't qualify in the theatre, then you get the opportunity with Hesketh.


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[Assistant] So I think we can say it was a difficult start in Formula One. You then have to go back to Formula Two. And in hindsight, was that actually quite a healthy thing for you to sort of go back and sort of get your head together and sort of relaunch your career really? Absolutely.


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[Assistant] Were there any discussions when you were with Ron in 78 about, you know, project four, taking over McLaren? Were you aware of any of that at that point?


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[Assistant] Unlikely, really. You know, we've only ever known the pristine motorhome and the...


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[Assistant] Now come on Eddie, how often were you on the phone to him when you were in Formula One saying, come on Ron, please let me drive for you, I want that McLaren Tag, I want that McLaren Honda.


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[Assistant] Now look, what about your career? I want to talk to you about your first full season now. It's 1980. Osella, who you've been doing Formula 2 with the previous year, they've decided to graduate.


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[Assistant] It's interesting because the Formula One paddock then sort of re-woke up to Eddie Cheever and Uncle Ken, Ken Tyrrell, saw the talent and you went there for 81.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You say you learned a lot. Was one of the things discipline? Do you feel you became a better driver in 81?


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[Assistant] Now, there's one thing, you go from there, and it seems to me that you gravitated towards continental based teams. You had most of your success with Ligier and Renault.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did that image of seeing Gilles in the catch fencing affect you as a racing driver and as a man? Did you ever consider giving up? Did it reduce your commitment, your love of the sport?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why did you want to do it so badly? What was it about driving race cars?


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[Assistant] Eddie, was it the thrill of driving that you loved, or was it the thrill of competition?


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[Assistant] You say that Gilles was fearless, did you respect him as a racing driver though?


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[Assistant] Well, Eddie, let's look at 83 now. You moved from Ligier to Renault to be Alain Prost's teammate. I mean, going into that season, it looked on paper that this was the moment. Is that how you felt when you signed for them?


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[Assistant] Did you sign as a number two? Yes. Did that great? Did you think twice about that?


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[Assistant] And were you surprised that it all came to an end for you, but it came to an end for him as well at the end of that season? Did that surprise you?


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[Assistant] Damn it. Eddie, if you'd had a manager, I think this, this tale could have been very different. Is that fair comment?


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[Assistant] You came through with him, Alfa Romeo teammates. What was it like being up against an Italian driver in an Italian team? Or it takes us back where we started this conversation. Were you an Italian?


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Was it a real shot in the arm to then go and have success in sports cars, feel what it's like to taste the champagne again? Did you sort of fall back in love with racing again?


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[Assistant] Big Tom. Now Derek Warwick was your teammate for longer than anyone else that season in, uh, with Jaguar and then of course at Arrows. We've had him on the podcast and there's a great story.


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[Assistant] Where he says you bulked him, I think, in qualifying at, I think it's Monaco. But he had a few choice words, I mean, to just describe the relationship with Derek.


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[Assistant] Give me both. Which one did you enjoy driving the most and which was the most competitive?


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[Assistant] I'm reminded too of that one-off race you did with Haas, uhm, in 86 and I think Adrian Newey and of course Ross Braun was at Arrows as well, wasn't he? Both guys have gone on to have phenomenal success. Were you impressed by them at those sort of early stages of their careers?


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[Assistant] You were unbelievably quick in that car, given that it was a one-off and you'd barely driven it before going into qualifying. I think you, you lined up tenth on the grid and Alan Jones was five rows further back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bring the best engineers to the teams that you are racing with.


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[Assistant] Now you mentioned Indy, couple of questions on that. How come you adapted so well to oval racing? Cause you said a little bit earlier that, you know, you had perhaps a little bit more of a self preservation gene than some drivers. And yet oval racing strikes me as one of the most terrifying things you can, you can do.


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[Assistant] How did winning the Indy 500 in 1998 change your life? The sense of satisfaction? A sense of relief.


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[Assistant] Even with that winner, Indy, do you consider your time in Formula One as the peak of your career?


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[Assistant] So when a guy, you've done both Formula 1 and Indy, obviously, when a guy like Alonzo takes on the challenge,


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[Assistant] How impressed are you by what Fernando did back in 2017? Equally can you relate to the frustrations of last year when he didn't qualify for Indy and what he's got to go through this year in a couple of months time?


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[Assistant] How much are you following Formula One these days? We've talked about Hamilton, yes, and we've obviously got Alonso coming back next year, but when you look at the young crop of guys coming through, if I, if I mention names to you like Max Verstappen or Charles Leclerc, you're giving me a thumbs up across the Zoom. Which one? Max or Charles? Both of them. Okay.


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[Assistant] Final thoughts actually, you just mentioned Haas. Were you ever tempted when you had your own team to come over and have a crack at Formula 1 with an American team?


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[Assistant] So that's what, that's what it takes. We need a front running American driver. When, um, Sergio Perez was ruled out of the British Grand Prix, uh, because of these positive COVID tests, I saw that Alexander Rossi on social media put a little note out saying, uh, racing point, have you got my number or something like that? Imagine if he'd come over and done that.


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[Assistant] How different might Eddie's career have been had he had a manager during those early years in particular? Had he not given up on Ferrari, would they have given him a race seat? Maybe.


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[Assistant] Just maybe. And then Eddie might have been a multiple race winner. He certainly had the talent.


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[Assistant] There are so many ifs, buts and maybes in racing. And as Eddie said at the end, he survived a lethal era of the sport when many of his colleagues didn't. And for that, there's a lot to be grateful for.


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[Assistant] But if he is the future of Formula One, then the sport is in a great spot. Looking forward to when his time comes to be challenging at the front. Couldn't agree more, Matt. I love chatting to George because he's such an engaging character and there's no doubting his speed. Let's hope he gets his chance soon enough.


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[Assistant] I'm so impressed by Russell's emotional intelligence, poise and generosity in addition to his talent.


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[Assistant] If Williams works out its aero and other car problems, George would be the perfect driver to bring that dream to reality. That would make an incredible comeback story for not just Williams, but Russell himself. Just a thought.


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[Assistant] Carson, wouldn't that be something? As Claire Williams says, she'd move heaven and earth to make him a champion in a Williams car.


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[Assistant] Now unfortunately, that's it for this week, but please keep your messages coming because we read each and every one of them. And if you haven't done that yet and you feel the urge, I'm at Tom Clarks and F1 on Twitter, or you can use the hashtag F1 Beyond the Greek.


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[Assistant] And having scrolled through your reviews on Apple podcasts recently, all I can say is thank you for your kind comments. We love making the show for you and are eternally grateful that you're part of the conversation each week.


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[Assistant] Thanks for listening guys, Beyond the Grid is produced by F1 in association with Audio Boom. Until next time, keep it flat out.


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[Assistant] Hello, I'm Jos van Stappen and you're listening to Beyond The Grid.


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[Assistant] No, it doesn't definitely not feel like yesterday. Uh, I did, I mean, I think the first test I did in Formula One was in Estoril. That went pretty well and I think that's created a lot of hype.


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[Assistant] No, a day after. I think, uh, I did, we were testing on the Tuesday morning after the race.


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[Assistant] I mean I had no clue how a Formula 1 car would react or how fast it was. So I had to adapt because I came out of Formula 3 and the difference was huge. And then at the end of the day I did a good lap time and I took, put me 10th on the grid or something and I was about 3 tenths faster than the drivers who were racing that year.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, I mean, I tested with footwork, uh, we had contact with, yeaah.


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[Assistant] Most of them. I think after the test, I did one day of testing with McLaren in Silverstone. We had contact with Eddie Jordan, Flavio.


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[Assistant] Yeah, a lot of people. So Flavio Briatore, why did you choose Benetton? Because they guarantee me the year after. That's why we choose for them.


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[Assistant] Nah, absolutely not. And then next to Michael was not maybe the best choice. But I wasn't. I mean, when I compare it with how they prepare the drivers now, I definitely was not ready for that.


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[Assistant] Nothing. Didn't, you know. And then during the years, you know, you get your experience, but you made your mistakes already.


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[Assistant] And, uh, there was nobody next to me who could help me with that. And that, yeah, that played a big part. You know, once you had a chance in the top team and you're not performing, I think you will face a very difficult career.


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[Assistant] But it didn't hurt my confidence, but I was still, you know, I was still trying, every time I was trying to match Michael's pace.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it never stopped me not trying and not worrying about going off or, you know, what was bad for your career, but I kept trying all the time.


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[Assistant] I think he was stronger, he was working flat out off track and he knew what he was doing and I think physically I wasn't up to the game, you know.


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[Assistant] Was all focused on him. Of course, he was winning the races and he was going for the championship.


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[Assistant] And then, you know, after the accident of Ayrton and Imola, then there was a lot of rule changes to the team with the step floor and things like that. So all the testing went into that, you know, to help me to, uh, to get the confidence in the car, you know, to, to make me move faster. Not like it is today, you know, they, they really help.


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[Assistant] The other driver who was struggling, but at that time they didn't care.


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[Assistant] Of course I remember, you know, coming in and then you see the fluid. Of course it is fuel, but at that time you think, you know, you don't know what to expect.


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[Assistant] I always open the visor because I needed the fresh air and then the fire.


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[Assistant] The best place where it can happen was in the pit lane of course, with all the fire extinguishers and people around.


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[Assistant] Because yeaah, I had the visor open and I think a little bit of the, I think it's the heat what burned a little bit.


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[Assistant] I think everybody would welcome it, but I don't know. It's hard to judge for me if it should come back, yes or no.


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[Assistant] But I don't know. What was the overriding emotion? I don't know if you can say I bounce back, I just finish fourth or third, but then the last lap.


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[Assistant] But that was just very welcome at the right moment.


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[Assistant] But I must say, I always had a good relationship with, uh, with Flavio.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I just accepted it. But then, you know, after the year...


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[Assistant] He helped me to go to another team. He helped me to go into the SimTech with Nick Wurt. I mean, it wasn't a bad car.


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[Assistant] In one occasion, Argentina was on the sixth position in the race somewhere. And then, you know, but...


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[Assistant] In 98 he put me back in the test team with, uh, with Benetton. So he, he kind of, he looked after me a little bit. Was he straight forward to deal with?


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[Assistant] I should have made a different choice. Maybe I should have gone to a smaller team.


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[Assistant] Like that, yeaah. I think one or two years in a smaller team to learn, to understand what it's all about in Formula One and then, yeaah, the way up. Was it difficult to pick yourself up after that year?


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[Assistant] Really, I mean still, I still have belief in myself.


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[Assistant] I really thought, you know, that's it, you don't come up, you know, it was a tough, tough route. And then with arrows and with Tyrol, you know, that's where.


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[Assistant] And then, and then I think the last year I was done with it. I didn't, I couldn't do it anymore. When you're with the minority. No, knowing that you're not go, you know, go to a race weekend and have a chance of a winning or podium or whatever. I could not do it anymore. So I, I, I said, I stopped with it. I'm done.


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[Assistant] I think driving at the speed, the qualifying, that's what you really enjoy. The racing, I like racing. But then, it was not a lot to compete to.


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[Assistant] So I had to straight into the pit lane. They checked everything. Nah, everything is fine. Went out again. And then that lap into where the go-kart track is. I don't know that. Sort of Stavelo, is it? Stavelo. I went straight on. Flat out.


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[Assistant] That's a big, that was a big accident. Did you hurt your neck, I think? Oh, yeah. I think I was knocked out, and I got up and walked again and then knocked out again. So I went to a hospital here in Liège, and then the first thing I said, I don't want to drive anymore. That was my first reaction.


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[Assistant] But then, I think a couple of hours later, you know, you're thinking to go out again.


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[Assistant] So, but my first reaction was, oh, stop it. Was that, that was like- That was really- Was that the biggest crash of- Absolutely, yeaah.


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[Assistant] So, and that were all, you know, we didn't have the Instagram and Twitter and things like that, so we did everything by...


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[Assistant] I was popular, uh, as well in Holland, uh, but I was, I always lived, I lived in Monaco in the beginning of my career and then later on I lived in Belgium.


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[Assistant] That Honda would come in Formula One again with our own team. So we had a deal with them. First year testing.


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[Assistant] And if they would join Formula One as a race team, I would be one of the drivers. And that was all written down? Was in the contract.


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[Assistant] And so how good was that Tesco? I mean... It was good. I mean, Harvey was the leader in that. And we had some very good design. Tim Densham and some other good guys from, uh, from Tyrol. They went, a lot of them went there, to Dallara to building it.


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[Assistant] So we had a lot of good people around. Steve Nilsson, team manager.


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[Assistant] So a lot of people are still around here. They were, yeaah, they were in that, uhm,


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[Assistant] On that project, so uhm, I really enjoyed it because the car was good.


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[Assistant] It was fast, and then everybody was thinking that we were running underweight, but we couldn't. I mean, it was on the limit, but we were never underweight, but it was just very good.


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[Assistant] I think Harvey knew already that it was going in the wrong direction.


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[Assistant] Uhm, still remembering when it happened with Harvey. I was, I was with Steve Nielsen in the trailer when Harvey came in. He had a very strange color on his face and


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[Assistant] So I was talking to Steve and Harvey came in and he looked a bit grey and, you know, was, but Harvey was a brilliant and very nice person.


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[Assistant] But he was complaining, you know, you know, touching his...


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[Assistant] So I looked at Steven and said, go, go, you know, and then they came into the hotel and Harvey collapsed. Yeah, that was very emotional, very difficult. And that was also the last time we were out on track.


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[Assistant] And I just, you know, we just had a click. Just was a nice human being. Very clever.


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[Assistant] It was big. It was, uh, yeaah. It was, they had a lot of facilities.


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[Assistant] But we didn't have the results what we wanted. Was that the Sergio Rindland era when he, was he there making the car? I think that was in the beginning. I think he left when I came in and there was 2000 or things.


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[Assistant] I took over from Magnuson in 98. I think first race was Manicure. But then, yeaah, I mean the team.


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[Assistant] It was okay, but not, I think the team was really concentrated on Baricello. I mean, I got along with him very well, but we had a lot of problems there. But it was still good. Technical or otherwise? Technical, technical. And with Jackie, it was okay to work with.


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[Assistant] Yeah, in the, in the web, yeah, that's correct. But then I had a Honda project that looked very, very good as well, so, uh, yeah. But unlucky sometimes.


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[Assistant] In one hand, it is okay to me. I have no regrets or I'm not, you know, angry about things. Of course, when you had to do it again, I would have done it differently. What would you have done differently?


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[Assistant] Prepare yourself better, uh, the choices we made and things like that, you know, physically, you know, uh, have a proper trainer, you know, build it up and things like that. But I think, you know, it was all good for me, uh, I made money and then after 2003 I stopped and I put all my effort in


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[Assistant] And the guy who's racing now, so, it, uh, it all worked out for us.


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[Assistant] Uh, but obviously, you know, it was always about racing. I think when we were having food or it was all about racing. So I think he's, uh,


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[Assistant] But he was keen. He was watching all the races. He was always very sad when I was leaving because he knew I was leaving because of my job and driving. He was always crying when I left home and so he was really hanging on to me when he was very little. So he was watching it all the time. He knew what was going on.


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[Assistant] And, uh, we had a go-kart team at home. My dad run that and so he was always on racing tracks and he was always watching and looking and you know, so he's brought up with racing, that's for sure.


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[Assistant] He has a sister. She's good, isn't she? She's quick, I've heard. Yeaah, we did some go-kart, but I must say, I concentrated on him for racing.


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[Assistant] Because he lived also because I split up and Max was living with me and Victoria was living with her mum.


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[Assistant] I've very, always stayed in contact with my little, with my daughter. Every day I was calling her and talking, you know.


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[Assistant] She likes, she likes racing, she likes fashion, so she's doing, designing her own clothing with the, you know, the lion what Max has on his helmet. At least the lion she's doing. So, uh, yeaah, she likes it and she likes the racing.


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[Assistant] That was quite early on when he was in a go-kart. I think we realised it already when he was around 7. But what stood out? What was it that made him different? Racecraft.


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[Assistant] So when you had the lead in turn one after the start, that's the first time you came over start and finish, you had a second lead.


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[Assistant] And then they're running on colder tires. He has a, and for me, that's talent, that's feeling, and that's what you also see in the wet, you know, when you have very little grip. That's where he is fast.


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[Assistant] He was self-motivated. He was very interesting at it. He wanted to start very early.


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[Assistant] You know, he was always like, I don't want to worry. When you were a little bit older, then I knew then I had more time for him as well. But then, you know, you get your go-kart on the mirror. And my plan was to put him in a go-kart when he was six years old.


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[Assistant] Uh, he was with his mom on a go-kart track in Genk nearby her house. And then he called me, daddy I want to go. And he was crying.


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[Assistant] Because he saw a younger guy running and I want to do it as well. So, and then when I came home, I remember I was in Canada for the race. So when I came home from Canada, I bought him a go-car. So, and that's how it started. He was four and a half.


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[Assistant] Teach him the lines. Not in the beginning. Just let him have fun and drive. But I really never had to tell him the racing lines or things like that. He knew. Because he was watching all the time.


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[Assistant] I learned a lot from my career. You learn the most from your mistakes you make.


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[Assistant] And I, I looked in the mirror, I know exactly what I've done wrong or didn't do right, and I tried to, you know, to teach him only the good things. And was he always receptive? I mean, I've got children, I know that. No, but he, he had so much faith in me, because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was always on track, and I was telling things, teaching things, and...


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[Assistant] There was never any question that he didn't have trust in me. Still now, I think when I see things happening, we always speak.


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[Assistant] I mean, he's older now, he's, he's real, for me he's a real man, he understands what he's doing, but we, we listen to each other. And he listens, he listens how I see it, he tells me how we see it, and we don't have to agree.


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[Assistant] But I know him that he really thinks about what I'm saying because I'm here not to destroy him, but to help him.


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[Assistant] I mean, theatre, anything. It's racing, it's private, it's everything.


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[Assistant] And that's the good thing we have, you know, we have a good, we have the distance because he has his own life, he has his own friends, but we know each other and we understand how we have to.


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[Assistant] Hands off. And sometimes hands on, whenever it needs to.


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[Assistant] When I see things, I wouldn't say go wrong or not going in the right direction. Then I tell them.


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[Assistant] I mean when you look at the results and the accidents he doesn't have anymore, yes, but he didn't change that much. And I think 2018 just didn't


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[Assistant] Also him, not only the team. They wanted to go for the world championship. Not quick enough and maybe over driving or over pushing it a little bit too much. Because if you cannot qualify in the first row to win a race it's hard. So when you qualify for fifth you have to take more risk.


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[Assistant] And if you don't have the speed on the straights, you have to take even bigger risk to overtake. And I think this is what happened. He took too big a risk.


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[Assistant] But he was always there when I giving interviews. At the time, there still, I still had a lot of interviews and I always did it.


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[Assistant] He, the journalist asked, he, but he understood of course.


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[Assistant] At the end, it has teached him something, so probably it's that, I don't know.


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[Assistant] Of course we were away a lot, so he lost out a lot of the time, but he still had the good points. Was he diligent? He didn't like it at all. He didn't want to go to school. Every day it was a fight to bring him to school. But it worked out for him.


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[Assistant] I think it changed our whole family's life of course. In the last five years


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I have more time now for my private life, what I didn't have the last 25 years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, it changed Max's life a lot. It changed my daughter's life a lot. Changed his mom room. It changed everything. Things, yeaah. I mean, we are here, you know, working with Raymond, his manager, and me, and Max.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Always, our three, we make the decisions, we always talk, we always have a conversation, you know, every deal, everything, we always discuss together. And I think


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think we will not come to that point that he thinks that way, because I really leave him. I let him do his own things, but I always have my ears open and things like that. And also, you know, I'm not there to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If the driver does well, it makes your life a little bit easier with helmet, of course. Of course. It's normal. It's that way because he's also here to win, you know, he's not here to finish second.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the ma- the maturity he has, and also, to be honest, it's the way Red Bull picked him up and trained him and things like that. Simulate, you know, they really put all effort to make it a success.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And anyway, it was an older car, he had to do 300 clicks and he jumped in and he was, it was so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Natural what he was doing because I was standing on top to overview the whole track and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was impressive what he was doing for the first time in a race from one car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wouldn't say so, but more on a hobby basis, I think. I mean, I'm doing some, drive some cars, but just for fun now. I haven't raced for nine years, I think. Did you miss it? No, because Max...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the most exciting to have your son racing. More than driving yourself. For instance, when you're on the grid before the start of a race, watching him, is your heart rate? Much higher than I was racing myself. Really? Yea, absolutely, I'm sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's exciting, it's, you know, you wanted, yeaah, that he do, that he does well and, but when I was racing, and I, I always had like, you know, I do my best, I do all I can, you know, and that's it. And I was calm, I, I wasn't nervous. With him there, and always, you know, I know how we race and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He has to take a little bit more risk to come to the front. You know, it's exciting. And Max is an exciting driver.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Points out immediately what's good and bad, you know, he's very, uh, for him it's easy too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To feel what is working and not and that's what the team likes as well. But also,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He feels that he has performed now because he's the main guy and he has to bring the points home and that's what he's doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wasn't thinking about that, but I really, really enjoyed it for the Honda people because they went through such a difficult time with McLaren.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was so good. And then when Max stepped onto the podium, when he pointed to the Honda logo on his overall, and that was never talked about it before. That was just his, you know, he also had the same feeling, you know, and then seeing the Japanese in the garage, they, you know, they had tears in their eyes and then you could see how much it does with those people, how much heart and effort and, and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Happening for next year. It's an important year for everybody, I guess.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's young, it's dynamic, it's friendly, it's a lot of fun. If you see the mechanics, it's really, it's really nice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My, yeah, my own career, of course, I think it could have gone a lot better if we made different choices. But you cannot turn it back, you know, you make your choice at the moment when you have the information what you have at that moment. So we did. But I'm, I'm very happy because of what I did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I gave it to my son and now this is all happening to us. So, yeaah, I'm happy man, absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think you, uh, you want to have the best for your children.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I had my good things, I enjoyed it, I had fun in Formula One, I made money in Formula One, you know, and that gave us what we have now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in some ways it worked out. The only small thing I'm missing at the moment is the World Championship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Obviously I was with 24 already in Formula 1, but in total I think I had about 40 races from 0 to Formula 1. So, you never can get this


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In combination with a lot of natural talent, in combination with a really good brain, he was a very switched on, he was a street fighter, Brazilian street fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that made him different to all the rest. I mean, I think you could cut off his hand and he still wouldn't feel it until the race was over. And that gave him an extra boost.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I was not surprised at all because, you know, at this moment, all my teammates in some way I could beat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Out of just my natural talent, because I never went to physical trainings, I never did anything, you know, I just put talent. But that was also my big handicap, because it allowed me until this moment to handle it in the way I was handled. So when I signed up for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Adam was the king of the rain. First day was practicing the red, I was quickest. Second day was practicing the dry, I was quickest. So I say, well, not a big deal, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unfortunately I, I, I crashed because really the car was made for Alan Brosnan. I, I was stuck with my legs between the battle because I really had not space in the car. So it didn't worry me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, exactly, but I have a chance that I'm very light. I'm 4% of fat, so uhm...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, it is, but that's a chance, cause if I was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Normal, let's say, I would be, yeaah, 80 something kilos, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I get sick quite easily, but I sleep 12 or 14 hours a night also. Not the night before a race? Well, 12 before a race, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But nah, like in the morning I eat like, omelettes, 6-7 eggs, with mushrooms and stuff. 6!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then for lunch? Then for lunch, uh, normally, you know, one, one chicken breast is good portion already. I have two and a half with full side of like mashed potato and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Plus dessert. Every- What's a dessert? Yeaah, every 2 hours, 2-3 hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's quite crazy and I lost, if you think about it, I lost four and a half kilos since the beginning of the year because I'm training less and traveling, I don't eat. Sometimes there is days where I don't, I cannot eat six times a day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the training period, that's what I do. I eat every two hours to three hours. But I cannot do that all the time in the season. So I lost four and a half kilos.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I am Alan Prost and you are listening to Beyond The Grid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, if I don't do a sport, if I don't do physical training, I really don't feel well, you know. For example, we were talking now in Singapore, I'm going to have three days.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Without any sport, because I don't want to go to the gymnasium. I'm going to do some exercise in my room, stretching and a little bit of exercise, but it's my life. I don't...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Try to find something, you know, I just want to be healthy, I just want to be, uh, okay with my body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He has won races, uh, he has been so competitive during the last few years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is a lot of small differences that can make obviously the difference in competitivity. A driver like him can help, you know. We need to put everything


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We can, you know, all together to become a top team. And he is part of, uh, he's part of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, the marketing side is good value. Uhm, there's a lot. He's funny, isn't he? He's properly funny. He's, he's a funny, funny guy. He's, uh, if you talk about Daniel inside Formula One, outside Formula One is that you have never controversy. You have, uh, but, uh, you, you need to remember


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For me, he was, or is, maybe one of the best drivers to overtake people. He's very competitive. He has got more points than his teammates very very often.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, like, uh, like Max, which is, who is considered maybe one of the, one of the best. He, he's, he's a top guy. And in, in a team like, uh, Renaud.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Getting along, you know, without any problem and I'm sure that with Daniel and Nico is going to be a good, uh, good team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He knows that he cannot be world champion next year. We are going to be better for sure, but, uh, he will take time, but he's ready to, to, we were a bit surprised that, uh, when he, when he said, yes, I want to, I want to come, you know, is, uh, but, um, he's going to also allow us


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To push the team to become even better and better all the time. So there's a little bit more pressure on the team because of him. And, uh, but at the end it's positive pressure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The only comparison, uh, I told you a little bit of that when you're talking, when you were talking about Daniel, is, uh, everything has changed, obviously, because in, from 80s, 81 to 83, we had everything built in Viry-Châtillon, chassis and engine. It was a French team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, French styles, French, uh, people, uh, I don't remember if we had one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the decisions were, we had the managing director, we had the, let's say, team principal was Gérard Larousse at the time, but,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very honestly a problem. That was, if we have not been world champions, some decisions were absolutely strange in this motor racing environment. And it became, uh, so the thing you could say


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The mentality is still there, even if the people have changed. That means it's still, uh, Renault is a generalist constructor. It's not Ferrari, it's not Mercedes, it's not Audi. We are fighting against


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, in, uh, in your heart, you know. So, we are not doing exactly the same thing. What is the most important is the management side is very different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 82 was maybe, I mean 82, 83 was, uh, was the, the worst years of, obviously, because 82,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's more than 30 years later you can say exactly what happened. In 82 we had a failure, I had 9 times in the year the same failure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, uh, was cost, I don't know, maybe 30 euros today or 50 euros, whatever. But it was part of a company, uh, linked with Renault.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we could have go, uh, go to Garrett. It was, uh, because, uh, we were limited. Uh, uh, you know, during the season we were putting more boost and more, more, more power, but the turbo could not accept that. And, uh, then in fact we had a rehabilitation problem, but they did not want to, did not want to, to do it. They didn't want to change.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time I've never been world champion, I've never been successful after.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, in fact it's another season, another, another ambience, uh, you know, the funny thing, when I came to McLaren, Niki has a contract of being number one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, he was number one, but it was not number one like today, where if he was behind me, I had to leave the way, you know, that did not work like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But when we were testing, he was, he wanted to test the development. If he was, if we had only one front wing, for example, he would have the front wing for him. I have accepted that. And in fact, I never felt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did a good season, I had more problems, maybe more failure, I did mistakes too because I was fighting a lot against Nelson and Nicky was always behind but got the points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you know what was the most difficult part of it? If you ask me, winter 84-85, I was reading sometimes newspapers, which I never do for a long time. And I was reading


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was it in 1985 when, uh, I spawned, you know, in the street in Estoril when it was wet, then I had the, the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, because, uh, I remember, you know, I was also very close to Pierre Dupasquier, you know, the person from Michelin, where I was working a lot with him. By the way, it's, it's, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where I, I have decided to put the, the hard tire on the left and soft tire on the right. And he said, oh no, no, it's not going to work, you can't do that. Said, let me do. I am, I am doing all the preparation of the car for the rest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he was saying 100% all the time, that mean not only races, but qualifying, oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Free practice, but also private test during the week. I was driving at 100%.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For any kind of reason, but sometimes it was starting 8, 9, 10, I was on first row, you know, but it was still, uh, still able in the rest to be, to be competitive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I really changed my philosophy a little bit. It's not only because of Ayrton. When Ayrton came, I went even more to this philosophy. But I was, uh, I was more like this because it's, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We, we have the, you know, they have to find the way, you know, to adjust between the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a lot of accidents in the 80s with McLaren, the first year at McLaren. I had nine mechanical failures on the car during the year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hurt myself, but the first or second race in Kealami, I broke my scaphoid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, preparing the car for the race, uh, that was also a sort of philosophy that trying to get.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I remember I had a good friend of mine also. He was my manager the first year, Jean-Louis Lafauze. He has died in 24 hours of Le Mans because he took the car at one stage and his teammate was going over the curbs all the time and then he had a suspension failure in the straight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, it's very difficult to rely on everything and everybody in this business, you know. And when we had the T-car,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, you put again everything on your side.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if he has not, if he had not decided already to retire at the end of 86. Very difficult to judge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, for sure, uh, with uh, KK. KK was one of my best teammates. He was really a friend too. He was really, really good. But for sure, yeah, he did not, uh, maybe he did not get along also with the McLean philosophy and uh, the philosophy also to set up the car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why Nelson? And Nelson was a good friend also. You know, we were getting very well. And the other night, I didn't know him. I only met him once in Germany for Mercedes, uh, you know, race in Nürburgring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I never regret, uh, anything because when you do things, uh, you do, you do...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 88 when Ayrton came, we always took decisions all together. When Ron had to find a sponsor,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I've even been number two at least once, you know. So, uh, I was not in this, in this philosophy. In the modern Formula One, Ayrton started


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Obviously we had Michael and then now we have Lewis and, and Sebastien, we do not, we should not hide that, you know, it's part of the, and, uh, on the other side, there's some teams, like Ferrari for example, if I was a number one on the paper in 1990, I would have been world champion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you have to understand that sometimes in different teams, in different situations, being a number one, having a number one and a number two in a team can work very well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I felt a little bit when I was, uh, with Nicky, uh, not from the beginning to the end. I felt that also in my favor with KK. I felt that, uh, with Stefan. So, that's the first time I felt the, the opposite. But, uh, if you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the past, you understand also his philosophy. You understand his motivation to build the best, uh, wrestling team. So sometimes you can forgive, forgive him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, because he was thinking about the future. He was thinking about the relation with Honda.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, it's always in his, uh, in his temper, you know, in his, uh, in his philosophy. So I had no problem. But on the human side, I promise you that was really, really tough. But at the end, we made history. We, we had, uh, we had such, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we had some people like John Ogan, for example, he was there in the motorhome when we met the agreement. The agreement, we have done this kind of agreement two, three, four times already in our, because we wanted to rest together, we did not want to, you know, to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And one said that, please, uh, uh, at the time, that was 30 years ago, we put the, the tape, you know, the big tape in record and then they say, you know, it's, I don't know, but hundreds of millions of persons have seen what happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had, uh, I talked to one journalist, a French journalist, uh, about this story, but- Johnny Reeves. Johnny Reeves, yeaah. From L'Equipe. From L'Equipe. Like off. You know, we were talking very often off. That was the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From 80 to 89, you were able to speak off with some journalists.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to listen to what I'm going to say because that's why I'm very upset about the film Senna. Because you can't talk about this story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Osberg, uh, Damon, all these guys, you know, they are all different. You know, but Ayrton is special, is very special. So you cannot, I am very, I would say, Cartesian, you know, uh, so it's very, very easy to, to read, you know, what I think, what I say. And, uh, Ayrton is different. So you cannot, you cannot judge, you cannot sit and talk, you know, I have invited him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once, in my house in Switzerland, when we were in the Geneva Motor Show.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He did not talk. He did not say one word, you know. He was sleeping in a canopy after lunch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He has to fight against yourself. He doesn't want to become a friend. He doesn't want to become close. It is very difficult when you have this kind of, but you understand everything. But you understand after. You always understand after in life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know? And it's, uh, that's why I don't regret it was like this, I was like this, we had a different personality, different culture, different education.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, different way of driving, different way of set up the car, whatever. We were all different. But that is part of our success. That's why.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He talked about everything to me. He was calling me, let's say one or twice per week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we had a long conversation. He wanted me to come back. When I tested the McLaren, uh, on the Peugeot engine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said, oh, you should come back. I was laughing on the phone. He said, yeah, I'm going to come back and you're going to be one lap ahead of me and why you want me to do that. I was explaining to me all the things, you know. I understood a lot on the human side, which was the most important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if you can, if you can say friends, but when, when a guy like him change completely his mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know something that I will never share to anybody. I never, I never talk to anybody, even person of my family, because that was a secret. So I can say yes, in this way he is a friend, but I never met him very often after, you know, after his accident. But yeah, I mean we share a lot of things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, because he said to me, I cannot be motivated by these guys. He was telling me some names. I cannot be motivated by these guys. And then I have, uh, he had a lot of, uh, all, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What was his strength before was really like a sort of weakness, but he was still quick, still good, no problem about that, but he was completely different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think the whole process was too intense because he wanted to, to beat me. His first motivation was I was a target. I was talking to you before about the target, you know, in life. When you have a target, maybe the target was not the correct one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, you know, he was for sure maybe one of the best of the world, you know, anyway. But, uh, when he lost his motivation, he lost his target, uh, he lost a goal, he had to find a new goal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being another time world champion was not enough. That's what I felt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he had to find a goal also in his private life. And, uh, everything was confused at the time. He went from a McLaren family to a Williams environment which is not the same, not easy. Especially also for a South American guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, everything was, uh, you know, almost, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Retirement? For him to retire. No, no, no, we did not talk, uh, did not talk about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It gives you a, you know, it's a racing team, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he was new, especially knowing the car because he has done a lot of tests with the active suspension. And it's not a secret that I always said I did not like this car. I did not like the active suspension car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, assistance on the brakes and the steering and the, you know, the, I did not like the fact that I could not set up the car. I wanted to because it was Paddy at the time, he had to put, you know, bring the computer and said, uh, I did not like the car, you know, and, uh, uh, and, and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have done some tests together in September, October in Astoril with the new regulation without the active suspension.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean I have decided to stop anyway before I have decided to stop in August. It went slowly during this 93 season so it was no question. And when I have tested the McLaren


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We discussed during the winter, and we had a contract.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For 94. For 94 and beyond. That was obviously the best contract I would have never done financially, from far.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To drive again, to see if I wanted to do it or not, uh, obviously the car was not very competitive and the engine was not very competitive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I could not win again and also the fact that, uh, I had to, uh, uh, I wanted to, to change, you know, and, uh, I was more disappointed by the, the environment of Formula One.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've, uh, I've done that also in 95, 96 at McLaren. I was still driving, testing, working in the team, really beside, beside Ron as we were doing in the, in the past. We have done some very good things together. That was, you know, part of the, my life, you know, experiences. But sometimes when you have decided something,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, you can see, okay I've done it right or not, but it was really the right decision.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you miss driving? Do you miss driving now? No, no, I don't miss driving at all. You know, when I had the opportunity to drive my old cars, I'm happy to see what it was. I mean, depending the condition, depending the cars, but I drove also some modern cars recently in the last few years, but I don't have the same fun anywhere at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm, I'm still ready today to work, uh, if, if I'm motivated, if I find the motivation to work, uh, 15 hours per day is not, is not a problem. It is absolutely not a problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I had the opportunity to do it, obviously, in a good way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was a good way at the beginning. I will explain to you. And it was also, you know, a French team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The same with Total and Peugeot I had to pay for the engine. You know, that started like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said, please do it for friends, we will help you later on. And then I've never been helped, no, in a way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, that is the, let's say the political aspect of the, this country is always like this, you know, and you need, you need to have the support and the political, otherwise it's very difficult. But when I realize that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a company, not a French, French Formula One team. You know, my business, 90% of my time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was for the political game, for the, you know, the, the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, all the controls what you have, tax control or whatever, administration and, but then you realize, one day I sit with Ron, I said, please Ron, tell me how much you pay all the employees, how many employees you have and tell me how much you pay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know he had at the time 600 people was much less than today. 600 people or even more say 700. I had 200, even 190 exactly. So he had more than the double and we had exactly the same, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is impossible, in fact, you know, to, to run a team in France today if you fight against English team and, uh, it is, it is impossible. So slowly I realized that, but then I had to, it was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I made some fantastic deal. I mean on the marketing and business side with LVMH, with Yahoo, with big companies, but then we had a crisis internet. I sold some shares to Yahoo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because we had a crisis, the internet crisis becoming. Then I signed, I signed a deal with Al Waleed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just before the 11th of September, you know, to sell the team, to sell a big part of the team. So I was not very lucky of this period because all the constructors, they were gone already in different teams. I was with Peugeot, I had to pay for the engine, I had to pay for the engine.


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[Assistant] Do you know how much money I paid the Ferrari engine?


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[Assistant] In 2000, it was 28 million dollars and I had to pay 31 million dollars the year after. I could not do it.


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[Assistant] I could not do it. So the people saying, you know, I was not a good team owner or I struggle. Yes, I struggle, but tell me what to do. When you have to pay for the, you know, because it's in France and you have to pay 30 million your engine.


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[Assistant] My, my full budget, my maximum budget, I had 40 million euros. The maximum budget I had in one year, 40 million euros. And you cannot run the team with less than 10 million, it's not possible. Wow.


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[Assistant] I can't tell you much more, but it's very interesting because when people are complaining today about a few things, but, uh, I was getting for the commercial, uh, the commercial money was, uh, maximum 10 million dollar.


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[Assistant] A lot of things that you don't know with a lot of success, some less success is part of the, when you are an entrepreneur, if you want to do things, you have to accept that it cannot work all the time. But it does not work for reasons that I did not


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[Assistant] You know, it's funny because when, uh, maybe five years ago?


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[Assistant] I met a couple, uh, uh, with their two, two children and one was Ayrton and the other one was Alain. Can you imagine? So when you have seen that in your life, I mean, you can accept Kimi without any problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hi, I'm Meka Salo, you are listening to Beyond The Grid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, actually I started the season with, uh, arrows. I was told, I think it was January time, that they want to replace me.


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[Assistant] I was quite confident I'd get back because, uh, there was not really many drivers available at that time and, uh, I was basically next in queue anyway. So I thought I wasn't very happy at Arrows anyway. So in a way it was a relief for me to get out of there.


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[Assistant] Well, it came because I was friends with Jack Wilnev and, uh, also Greg Pollock at that time, so, uh, it was quite soon after the accident, uh, Greg called me and said, you wanna drive?


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[Assistant] I think I did my first seat fit, uh, at the circuit. I don't think I ever went there.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I just thought, I hope he's okay and, uh, went in a plane and I landed and, uh, went home and soon after that, uh, Todd called me and said, I want you to come to Maranello.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was actually a really hard week. I went to Factor, it took me to Factor with some van with the blankets on me and so we did seat and all this kind of stuff during that week and just hiding.


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[Assistant] Thing from the team, teams are demanding much more. Ferrari is really demanding and when we went testing, okay, I didn't get any test before the first race. I just did a few laps in Maranello and then when we went to first real test, then I realized what kind of game they are on.


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[Assistant] They found one corner where I was losing a few hundreds. They made me work on it really hard to find that five hundreds from that corner. So it was actually fun.


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[Assistant] I don't create pressure for myself. I remember I spun once in the practice and I got stuck in the sand with it and, uh,


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[Assistant] Nothing. And Jean had no furniture in the house. He just had a few front wings and parts of the cars in there as decorations.


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[Assistant] Anyway. Yeah, I was thinking same because I was getting married same time. So we were preparing for the wedding week after. So I actually wanted to be in Helsinki also and Jean just told me not to go anywhere.


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[Assistant] And I had a test before that race. That was the first time I had actually had a Mugello. So I had a couple of days with the car. So I knew the car better. And, uh, so it was just much easier to go for that Hockenham race.


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[Assistant] That's actually a much nicer feeling than to stand on a podium in Monza with the Ferrari. And, uh, it was, it was something special.


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[Assistant] I would like to go for full season, that time I was thinking, I wish I had winter time to prepare for the season like that, with a car like that and a team like that, so it would be a totally different story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He has a lot to learn. It's his first year. He's 18 now and he, uh, he didn't do any cutting.


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[Assistant] So he started from zero this year and he's been learning a lot. He was five seconds behind the other guys at the beginning of the year, now he's only second.


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[Assistant] Sauber was the best one, so obviously they used Ferrari engines and uh, I would stay within the contact.


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[Assistant] In the middle of the season and I decided that because I learned from Ferrari that you need to be with a pick.


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[Assistant] Yes. So to wake up in the morning and you've got that. Yeah, I have to stretch a lot and do a lot of things for my back to get moving in the morning.


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[Assistant] And we had a very powerful engine in it, so it was much better. So we were much happier with that and the season looked pretty good actually at the beginning.


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[Assistant] So yeaah, it was, it was not too bad, but uh, then the development really didn't go as planned.


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[Assistant] I had an option, yes, and I was sure that I'd continue because I was just building all for that in my mind and I was thinking all the time that now this car is the real test car and we are in real conditions now to test it and then,


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[Assistant] Many years in Formula 1, so I knew a lot of people and it was nice to get those people in there and start working with those and then suddenly I was dropped. So it was bad timing.


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[Assistant] Very bitter, yes. It was not nice because we were all preparing for that 2003 year.


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[Assistant] That was good, yeaah. I like working with those guys. There's still some of them here in the paddock and they're good fun still. We really had a fun. We were just enjoying what we were doing and still serious, but we knew we can't win anything. So, but we maximized everything we had. We did a,


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[Assistant] Fastest pit stops and consistent lap times every race, but we still keep finishing somewhere 11th or 13th in races.


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[Assistant] The Harvey Puzzle White did great cars every time. They were nice to drive, easy to set up and, uh, just underpowered every time.


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[Assistant] I had a session with him once in his office. He told me to sit down in his, in the chair.


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[Assistant] And do a lap of Silverstone, with my eyes closed, and see what I do in the car.


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[Assistant] I'm still confused about it. But he made good cars didn't he? He made really good cars and Mike Gascon was helping him. Mike was really good also, so it was fun to work with him.


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[Assistant] I was, I was second there. That's just what I was going for. Yes. I was also there.


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[Assistant] So you, did you drive that test car? I'd never drove it, no, it stopped before, yeah.


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[Assistant] I mentioned Joss Verstappen actually. How quick was Joss? He was super quick for one lap, but he couldn't keep it on the track for more than a few laps, so then he always fell off. So a real challenge in quality.


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[Assistant] Yes, he was, he was, uh, probably the fastest teammate I ever had. So, but yeah, if we did a five lap or ten lap run, let's say, I would beat him quite a lot because I could do consistent lap time. So he, he would do quick lap time, few of them, and then spend five seconds in the grass somewhere and destroy one front wing.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, very good. Yeaah, he's done a good job with Max and, uh, Max is just unbelievable good.


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[Assistant] No. They all have their different days. You know, the clerk still makes mistakes. Max has come down a lot from his mistakes and he's really good, but Luis is really strong always.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, no, he was the one, so he helped me, he was the reason I got the informal one.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, I was happy I qualified and I actually passed my teammate twice during that race, so. It was a great race, you finished 10th. Yeaah, I passed Alex Sanadi was my teammate and I passed him before the red flag and then I passed him again after the red flag because they made me start behind him. Restart.


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[Assistant] Mike was great all the time and, uh, he had this, uh, stroke early on, uh, when I started in Formula One. So then I was a bit left out for a while, but he still could manage everything. And, uh, with Sue, his wife, they did a good job every year. Nice and relaxing work with them.


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[Assistant] That's fine. I don't really look things like that. I got to do what I wanted all my life. I made racing as my profession and, uh, been winning a lot of races everywhere else. So I just had a bad cars in Formula One most of the time. So it was not possible in Formula One, but, uh, I won GT championships and, uh, I won Le Mans a couple of times and other things. So.


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[Assistant] No, no, I wouldn't say that. Uh, it was of course, sometimes it was frustrating because you entered the weekend knowing that you will not be in top six because there was always two Panathons, two Williamsons, uh, two Ferraris or two McLarens, so.


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[Assistant] That's the way it was. It went quite fast, the things, because you sort of have to push extra to be anywhere with those cars when I was driving.


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[Assistant] Guys, no problem at all for me. It actually starts from really long time ago. I broke my ribs and lung in a Formula 3000 in Japan long time ago with an accident and it bothered me all the time.


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[Assistant] Then the doctor said, yes, they're completely black your lungs. And then they did some.


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[Assistant] When I started with Toyota, it happened 6 days before the first race.


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[Assistant] Did the hole, I had a valve on my lungs and I flew to Australia, we took stitches off on Thursday evening and Friday we did practice, so.


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[Assistant] I was in one car team here, which was a bit unfortunate because, uh, I did not have any experience of Formula 3000 first of all.


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[Assistant] Yeah, first couple years, yes, then I told them if you want me to stay, you get me an apartment because it was, hotel was not nice. And, but we all stayed in the same hotel. We traveled together to races. In Tokyo is this? Yes, in middle of Tokyo, president hotel in Tokyo. We all stayed there. It's very famous folder.


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[Assistant] There was half of the Formula One grid in Japan at that time, so, uh, it was, we all ended up in Formula One. Even Michael came to do a few races there sometimes.


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[Assistant] I did first year I flew I think 15 times back to Finland and then second year 10, third year 5, then last year I didn't fly at all anymore and I made myself busy there because I like driving so.


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[Assistant] Not really, no, it's, uh, it's, uh, I'm helping the real stewards who knows the rules to understand what happens in the car while you're driving.


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[Assistant] There's some downsides on it also. For example, my feeling is that the drivers will think that they have now one free pass for every weekend for the race and you can block somebody really


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[Assistant] Remember his suck my balls put down of Nicker Hulkenberg a couple of years ago?


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[Assistant] Kevin is F1's Great Dane. I hope you enjoy our conversation.


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[Assistant] Kevin, welcome to the show. Lovely to have you on Beyond the Grid.


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[Assistant] For the team. Just wondering what you've been up to since then.


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[Assistant] So you haven't been back to Roskilde, because I was googling Roskilde and I see it's almost time for the Roskilde Music Festival.


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[Assistant] How do you relax? You say that you spend a bit of time with your girlfriend and stuff, but after a race weekend, how long does it take you to wind down and...


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[Assistant] As I say, just relax and sort of start kicking on to the next race.


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[Assistant] It takes a while to get over the disappointment of a weekend like, like France.


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[Assistant] In your mind, are you sort of going through what you might have been able to do differently if you'd had the weekend again?


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[Assistant] What would you do? Is it that, is that what's going through your mind? Or are you just, just point blank, annoyed?


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[Assistant] Equally when you have a good result on a good weekend.


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[Assistant] Are you lying awake at night for different reasons? Because you're just excited and happy and... No, then there's...


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[Assistant] What has this team got to do to become a big front running team, do you think? To become a big front running team I think.


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[Assistant] So 2021, there was obviously 175 mil cost cap, uhm, of course that's your salary.


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[Assistant] Well, let's talk. Can we talk family? Uhm, so.


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[Assistant] She sounds amazingly cool. Which kart track is this then? Is there one in, near Roskill?


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[Assistant] He got fond memories. I mean, so, what did he, he was at McLaren and did a race for them in, was it AIDA I think in 95? In 95.


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[Assistant] But first, hear this. If you're looking to create a professional website or perhaps revamp an old one, then listen carefully because we have a special offer for you Beyond The Grid listeners.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Premium apps and dedicated support from their team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So see how Wix could help you and get started by going to wix.com. That's wix.com forward slash grid to get 10% off. That's wix.com forward slash grid to get 10% off. Now let's get back to Mr. Magnuson.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So given that you're the only Danish F1 driver, can you just give me an idea of how famous you are at home?


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[Assistant] It's hard to quantify. But is it huge? Is it huge?


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[Assistant] And Kevin, what else were you good at growing up? I mean like handball's massive at home, badminton's massive, any of that?


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[Assistant] Don't all mechanics try and teach drivers to swear in that particular language, right? So, you did a lot of racing in Italy, so I imagine you're pretty comprehensive on swear words.


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[Assistant] And so you say dad was busy racing. Of course he was. But he must've come and seen some of your karting. What kind of a karting dad was he?


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[Assistant] Kev, where was it? Was it Malaysia 2014? I think he came to Malaysia. I think so, yea.


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[Assistant] Can you remember the phone call? Did it come very soon after winning the title? The phone call to say that you were going to be a race driver?


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[Assistant] So was Ron the person who rang you to tell you that you were going to be in?


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[Assistant] But I'll bet you weren't thinking that on the Sunday night of Melbourne.


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[Assistant] Not at all. You just finished what? Third on the road and then you inherited Daniel Ricciardo's second place when he was excluded, weren't you? I mean, what an amazing debut.


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[Assistant] How was Jensen, because his sort of public persona is a very laid back, funny guy. Is he like that on the inside when you're battling with him as a teammate?


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[Assistant] So how did you feel at the end of that season when Alonso comes in, you're pushed back to third reserve driver? Can you describe the frustration?


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[Assistant] Don't worry, plenty more to come from Kevin in just a minute. But lucky for you, we have another special offer courtesy of the shaving brand, Harry's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Harry's have a special offer for Beyond The Grid listeners, which offers a trial set for £3.95. All you have to do is go to harrys.com forward slash f1podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All you need to get going, which includes a weighted ergonomic handle ensuring maximum comfort and grip while you shave. And there are five precision engineered blades with a lubricating strip and a trimmer blade.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of that for just £3.95. High quality blades for half the price of other brands out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A razor handle, five blade cartridge, foaming shave gel, and a travel blade cover. So just go to harrys.com forward slash f1 podcast right now. That's harrys.com forward slash f1 podcast. Right, let's get back to Kevin.


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[Assistant] So 2015, difficult year. I remember it's just a very frustrated...


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[Assistant] How much would you like to do Le Mans with your father?


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[Assistant] Let's start talking about uhm, the sort of has situation because you, you came into contact with the team I think for 2016, didn't you? How close did you get before they then went for


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[Assistant] The 2016 drive? Yeah. Ruben's aged.


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[Assistant] Hadn't been racing in 16, you wouldn't have got to Hass in 17.


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[Assistant] So then for 17, were you sort of in contact with Haas all the way through 16? Talking about the following.


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[Assistant] When you'd had a, you were talking about how difficult the car was and stuff and there was a sort of.


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[Assistant] Came back as a racing driver, he would come back as you. You strike me as quite similar characters. Old school racers, no nonsense.


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[Assistant] You've got something of a reputation as the bad boy of f1, really, haven't you?


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[Assistant] It seems that you don't care what other people think of you. That's still...


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[Assistant] Not that bad. But, well it's two things. I think it started, didn't it, in 2017's Suck My Balls.


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[Assistant] When was it? Hulkenberg comes up to you in the TV pen after the race to talk about the incident at turn two. And Suck My Bulls was the first thing that came to mind.


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[Assistant] I will die in the car. I won't hold back. I put my life on the line. Absolutely. That's a quote from you. It's a very powerful quote.


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[Assistant] I think a lot of people were surprised to hear you talk like that.


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[Assistant] You're from the Jacques Villeneuve School, I remember.


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[Assistant] Jacques Vuillon, I've had a monster crash at Eau Rouge in 1999 and the first thing he said when he...


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[Assistant] Can you just describe what it's like when, to be on a role where things are working, you're getting points, the car is as you want it. Do you feel pretty invincible in those situations?


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[Assistant] Does it take us back to what we were saying about Jensen and, and using that experience? Do you think you're politically better at Formula One now as well?


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[Assistant] Well Kevin, keep demonstrating, keep showing what you can do. It's been, it's wonderful to watch you. You're a, you're a great asset to Formula One. So thank you very much for your time. Great to speak to you. Cheers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If there's such a thing as a natural fit in Formula 1, Kevin and Haas would appear to be it. His straight-talking approach is mirrored by team principal Gunter Steiner, and Kevin's respect for Gunter is clear throughout our chat.


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[Assistant] Well I couldn't agree more James. And hello there, long time no speak, hope you're well. And please everybody, keep your feedback coming. We really love it and remember to use the hashtag F1Bonthegrid and you can tweet me at Tom Clarkson F1.


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[Assistant] Beyond the Grid is produced by F1 in association with Audio Boom. Until next time, keep it flat out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hi, I'm Murray Walker and you're listening to Beyond the Grid.


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[Assistant] I'm alright Tom, uh, I'm old and doddery and uh, I've got things wrong with me that old people get but basically I'm okay. Firing on five cylinders anyway. Five out of ten. Oh yea, five out of six.


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[Assistant] Tom, I paused because I was just racking my brains to find the right answer. I don't really know what a podcast is. I don't think I've ever consciously listened to one. And to the extent that I have, I just assumed it was a sort of, uh, extended radio interview, which is what it is, isn't it?


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[Assistant] Right, almost right up to speed, not nearly as up to speed as I was, Tom, when you and I worked together, because, uh, well I'm not part of it now, and as you know, when you're part of it,


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[Assistant] You're talking to people all the time from different walks of life, team principals, drivers, sponsors, everybody you can think of about nothing else but Formula One.


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[Assistant] And to you and to me at that time, there wasn't anything else other than Formula One because you live in a sort of bubble and nothing else matters. Brexit and things like that.


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[Assistant] Let's not go down that route, Murray. No, we're not going down the Brexit route, I promise you. Uh, so I'm out of it, but to the extent that I'm out of it, I've tried to keep up as much as I can.


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[Assistant] I watch television, I read papers, I read magazines and I talk to people. So I'm fairly up to speed.


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[Assistant] I watched every second of the Bahrain Grand Prix and I thoroughly enjoyed it and I felt so, so sorry for Leclerc.


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[Assistant] Because to come into Formula One as he has and get into Ferrari as he has and to lead the race as he was doing so close to the end and have something happen to him was


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[Assistant] I hesitate to use the word tragic, but it was very sad.


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[Assistant] The BBC always used to say to me, Tom, you mustn't use the words tragic and you mustn't use the word disaster. I said, it's not a disaster if somebody retires from Formula One.


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[Assistant] It's not tragic if somebody's engine blows up. It's tragic if 50 people are killed in an earthquake in Japan or something like that.


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[Assistant] Even taking that into account, I think it's almost tragic that Lecair had the problem that he had. He's a very impressive.


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[Assistant] And he's talking in a foreign language.


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[Assistant] I'm consumed with admiration and respect for anybody that can do that.


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[Assistant] Tom, uh, I actually started talking about what today is Formula One.


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[Assistant] Before Formula One existed in 1949, if you can think back that far, probably your mother's told you about it. A little bit before my time. When Baron Tullo de Craffinried won the British Grand Prix in a Maserati.


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[Assistant] You have to take into account the fact that I was born into a motorsport atmosphere because my father was a very successful professional racing motorcyclist.


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[Assistant] And he raced from before I was born until I was 12 years old.


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[Assistant] So, I was either going to love motorsport or loathe it. And I loved it and still do. And the answer to your question is, uh, uh, Formula One is almost a passion with me. Uh, always has been. Not to the extent that motorcycle racing is, I have to.


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[Assistant] Tom, I'm surprised you're asking a question like that because I did actually race motorcycles. I did know that. And I retired at the height of my success after I had won a 250cc heat.


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[Assistant] Uh, at Brands Hatch, when Brands Hatch was a grass track, which ran anti-clockwise.


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[Assistant] And that was the time when John Sertes was a youngster racing with his father Jack and Jack, Jack rode the bike and.


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[Assistant] Llandrindod Wells, it was based, and we went charging about all over Wales. Uh, and the Scottish Six Days Trial, I wrote in that. I got awards in both of them. And I was fairly reasonable, Tom.


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[Assistant] Fair to good club standard. But I knew that I was never going to be as good as my father. I did, I started off with delusions of grandeur that I was really going to show the old man how a motorcycle ought to be ridden. And I very rapidly discovered that I wasn't.


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[Assistant] Uh, and you know what they say, those that can do and those that can't talk about it. So I started talking about it, uh, in 1949, got an audition at Goodwood, uh, and talked about the Parnell, Reg Parnell winning a heat there in his Maserati.


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[Assistant] And then it all grew like topsy, but I had a full-time job in the advertising business.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If, if, as I'm sure you do, you know that pal dog food


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[Assistant] If you know that your cat lives long, stays young and lives longer on Daily Kitty Cat. If you know that opal fruits are made to make your mouth water.


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[Assistant] That was, that was, uh, I, I was the, the account executive on the, and the account director on the Mars business, but I didn't actually think of that. I wish I had, but a trill makes budgies bounce with health. How does that grab you?


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[Assistant] When I start racing, uh, no, not really, because, uh, well, you know, Tom, if you're behind a microphone, you get a lot of adrenaline flowing and if,


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[Assistant] You are talking to literally millions of people.


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[Assistant] As I was in the BBC days and the BBC was the sole broadcaster. It's very different now. There's umpteen different organisations broadcasting Formula One one way or another.


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[Assistant] But when I started off and for quite a long time the BBC was the only Formula One broadcaster. So if you were going to listen to it, you listened to me because you hadn't got any options.


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[Assistant] Uh, so when I stopped riding bikes,


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[Assistant] I stopped because I really knew I wasn't good enough to get to the top, which is all I wanted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, well you don't, do you? It's something that happens to other people, it doesn't happen to you. And I didn't really do it long enough or at a high enough level to start thinking like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's my hobby. Exactly. It's my hobby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nine to five, nine to five, well nine to, not much more than nine to five, because in the agency business you lose a lot of business, so you inevitably have to replace it with new business.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I was doing a lot of new business presentations as well as working on my own accounts and that meant weekend work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was the motor, what we now call motocross scrambling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It really got me going because I'd been doing a lot of stuff on radio for BBC and Public Address and then RTV came to me and said they wanted me to work on scrambling as it was then called and it took off like a rocket


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When did I switch to cars? Yes, 1949 Silverstone. Well I had been doing, I had been doing a lot of stuff like the British Touring Car Championship, Formula Ford, Formula 3, BBC wasn't doing any or hardly any Formula 1 coverage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They would do Monaco, they would do the British Grand Prix and the Italian Grand Prix and that was about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, then in 1976, a chap called James Hunt, uh, won the championship and Britain suddenly became aware of Formula One because of the glamorous image, the playboy image, the devil may care image that James Hunt had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and the BBC decided they were going to do Formula One. And at that time, their natural commentator was Raymond Baxter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Raymond Baxter couldn't do it for a variety of reasons I won't bore you with. And they asked me to do it. And that was 1978. The Mario and Tretti Ronnie Peterson year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then it just grew from that and I carried, I carried on doing the job and the broadcasting for four years until 1982.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then in 1982, I was 60 years old, I retired from the advertising business and my career, broadcasting career started.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's difficult to know where to start with James because he was a unique character, Tom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't care about what anybody thought, uh, he was an extrovert, he was a showman,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He drank too much, he smoked too much, he womanized like there was no tomorrow, uh. Sounds like you're very similar. He could be the most arrogant, overbearing, objectionable person you've ever met in your life and frequently was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But all the time there was a really decent, cheerful, friendly, nice person hiding inside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nice chap took over. Sorry, when he retired from racing, the nice chap took over. Uh, but I had some very difficult times with James. I had some very good times with James. Uh, tell you what he was like. He, I used to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rush about the paddock all the time, beavering away, talking to people, talking intensely to drivers, to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the hope that some of it would stick for the contrary, while James would languidly sit in the Marlborough motorhome and everybody went to him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and I would get to the commentary box an hour before the race began. James would get to the commentary box maybe five minutes before the race began.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And to wind me up he would often say, who's in poor position Murray?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Literally on the balls of my feet with adrenaline pouring out of me by the bucketful, James would sit in a sort of, uh, sullen heap beside me and gesture for the microphone when he wanted it or I would give it to him when I wanted him to say something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there were times when he hadn't really got very much to say, but when he had got something to say, it was really worth listening to. Why did it work? I was old enough to be his father, Tom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and as you will gather, James did a lot of things and said a lot of things that I didn't approve of, and vice versa probably.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but I think it was probably partly because of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because we grew to be tolerant of each other, I used to want the microphone. I was so excited and wanting to impart everything that I had learned and was watching. But I really didn't want anybody else in the box with me. I didn't really want James Hunt. I was quite happy to do it all by myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So James had that aspect to put up with. Uh, I had other aspects to put up with. Uh, James was incredibly outspoken.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, he used to say the most outrageous things and get away with it. And the public loved him, and on one occasion, uh, he didn't turn up at all at the Belton Grand Prix one year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, we were frantically getting retired drivers to come to the commentary box to talk to me about what it was like. James formed up afterwards and said he was sorry he hadn't been there, but he was in bed with a stomach complaint.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, it was the first time I'd ever heard two Belgian nurses called a stomach complaint. Would you say? That's, but that was just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, or definitely by the end we were, uh, not really at the beginning. We were, uhm, reluctant partners from my point of view. Uhm, James obviously wanted to do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but no, no, we were alright at the end. And what impacted his death? We were alright at the end, provided


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh dear, this is going to sound very arrogant. Um, provided I was tolerant enough to put up with some of James' excesses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And some of James' excesses were really excessive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He had the most fearsome temper. God, he frightened the life out of anybody when he was having one of his tirades.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there you go. The important thing is, Tom, that it worked from the public point of view, and I suspect that it was the contrast of personalities. My talking like my trousers were on fire, as Clive James used to say, and James, the relaxed public school


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, expert because he'd been there and done it at the highest level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, it obviously had an enormous impact because I'd been working with him for thirteen years, sixteen times a year, four days at a time, and if you multiply sixteen by thirteen by four, you get a very big number. So, I, I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Missed, literally missed, greatly missed the partnership. James was replaced with Jonathan Palmer, who did an excellent job.