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[Assistant] So that thing, what you just said, I said what I said, you know, that's kind of a thing too, right?


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[Assistant] I appreciate memes. I appreciate memes and I even appreciate people that have, you know, like a hat.


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[Assistant] The t-shirt club is echo coming up with a lot of different t-shirts and me saying, dude, we can't make a million different t-shirts because how are we gonna keep a million different t-shirts in stock?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because let's face it, you come up with ideas for t-shirts that are fun, and I come up with ideas for t-shirts that are cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so because you're kind of, kind of just giving me a look when I said I come up with cool t-shirt ideas.


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[Assistant] Podcast number 53, there's one part, this is The Chosen Reservoir, we're talking about the book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they're assaulting down a hill. And there's a guy, the guy that's writing the book is writing what he's seeing and he sees these guys getting up and charging and one of the marines is not holding a gun, he's holding a freaking axe. And he's charging at the Chinese communists and assaults their position. And so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I want to put it on a t-shirt. A silhouette, somehow, of a crazy picture where you can tell that there is a marine with an axe running down, assaulting a communist position, and all it's gonna say is on that, is like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It'd be cool if you subscribed. That way you're listening to it. We're making them. We're probably making them faster and you can listen to them. Which is interesting. Awesome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's called the Unraveling, it's actually called the Jocko Unraveling podcast. So search for Jocko Unraveling and you'll find it's Daryl Cooper and me talking about. May I've been listening to him?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're freaking legit. It's awesome. So check that one out. We also have the grounded podcast, which we haven't recorded one in months. You know, cause we've been on quarantine so we haven't had, oh wait.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I got Warrior Kid 4 coming out, so we'll get some Warrior Kid ones done as well. We got a YouTube channel if you want to see Echo's videos.


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[Assistant] That he's super proud of, where he makes a bunch of stuff blow up and whatever.


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[Assistant] Chacko's reading my notes. Yeah, well I can see, you know. I see you write something. I'm like, oh wait a second. We got another podcast, but it comes out on this thread.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We haven't broken it out yet onto another thread. I don't know if we will. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see what happens. But anyways, it's really, it's us talking about what we do at Echelon Front.


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[Assistant] Working with clients, it's just all, it's like 100% leadership, right? It's a leadership injection directly into your veins, there's no, there's no books to be read, they're shorter, they're like half an hour, 45 minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what it's like, uh, it's like some of those books that I've covered, actually I've been covering them recently, those direct reports from combat.


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[Assistant] From World War II. They're like, this is an interview. We want to get this information to the troops as quickly as possible. That's what the debrief is. It's a freaking debrief. It's Dave and I debriefing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What we do on a daily basis to help companies and help leaders lead their companies. So that's what the debrief podcast is.


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[Assistant] Uh, Flipside Canvas, Dakota Myers Company, making cool stuff to hang on your walls that will keep you on the path, written a bunch of books, and got a bunch of books. Uh, we got a book called About Face.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wrote the forward for that. It's by Hackworth. This whole series of whatever we just did, six podcasts about guidelines for the leader and commander. I found that through About Face, which is my favorite book, which I wrote the forward to. So you can check that out. Leadership strategy and tactics field manual.


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[Assistant] The evaluation, the protocols. We got the new edition of the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. This is the Christmas New Year's gift book. This is what your people want. Wrong? Am I right? You're correct. I'm correct.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A bunch of new material in there, it's like something like 40 new pages in there, and if someone you know wants to get on the path, back on the path, needs to get on the path, if you want to stay on the path,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get em that new version of the discipline equals freedom field manual. Got way of the warrior kid for field manual coming out. How the kid's liking it, Dave.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My kids are so stoked on that. That's one section that they really like. Oh, right on. Right on. Uh, that's good. There's, let's just say there's layers in the book. Layers. We'll say that there's layers. So, weigh the Warrior Kid 4 field manual.


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[Assistant] Young Mark meets a kid, like last day of school, the kid wants to be a warrior kid, but he's leaving, he hasn't said anything because he's shy. He comes up and says, oh Mark, I really wanted to hang out with you and your friends and be a warrior kid like you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'm leaving, I'm moving, and so, Mark goes home, last day of school, now Uncle Jake's there, and he says, ah, you know, I met this kid, he wanted to be a warrior kid, but I can't help him. And Uncle Jake of course says, yes you can. You gotta write him a field manual. What's that?


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[Assistant] It's instructions on how to be a Warrior Kid. So that's what the book is. Way the Warrior Kid 4. Field Manual. Don't forget about Warrior Kid. Way the Warrior Kid 1, 2, and 3. Don't forget about Mike and the Dragons.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And of course don't forget about extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership. Don't forget that I have a consulting company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Leadership consultancy, we solve problems through leadership. Whatever problems you have in your organization, it's a leadership problem. And what we do is we solve those problems through leadership. Go to ashlandfront.com for details. Go to EF online if you want to ask me a question. If you want to ask Dave a question. Live. We will be sitting there answering your questions. If you want to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go deeper on the materials that we talk about. We have video courses on there. So check out efonline.com. We only have one muster.


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[Assistant] In 2020, it's in Dallas, Texas, December 3rd and 4th. Go to extremeownership.com for details.


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[Assistant] This is our leadership conference where we get granular, where we interact, where we explain these principles so you can take them and make your business and your life better. We have efoverwatch.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you need executive leadership inside your company, you need middle management inside your company. You want people that understand the principles that we talk about here, go to EFOverwatch.com. And if you want to help, service members.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want to help active duty people, you want to help retired people, you want to help their families, you want to help gold star families around the world, then check out Mark Lee's Mom's charity organization, Mama Lee. She has an organization called americasmightywarriors.org. You can check that out if you want to donate or if you want to get involved. And if you, let's say you want more pain,


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[Assistant] You just want more pain, we can deliver. You can get more of my distressing diatribes. You can get more of Echo's misplaced monologues. And obviously you can get some more of Dave's concentrated confabulations.


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[Assistant] You can find us on the interwebs on Twitter.


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[Assistant] On Instagram, which Echo will only refer to as TheGram, and on BatFace.


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[Assistant] Dave is at David Arbrooke, Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink, and thanks to General Bruce Clark and Colonel David Hackworth for passing these lessons on to us, and for your service to this great nation and to everyone out there in uniform.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thank you for standing the watch and for keeping us safe and also to police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thanks to all of you for standing the watch here at home. And to everyone else out there,


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[Assistant] Don't forget, in June of 1964, uh, Roger Dolan earned the first Medal of Honor at a Green Beret aid camp.


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[Assistant] Yes, and that's the formal battle between American first cab and the NVA.


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[Assistant] Of course he's very modest. The first two years basically from, from, uh, when he went to that first, the 217th, the commander of that unit didn't like North Vietnamese. So he was only a co-pilot. But he'd fly co-pilot, he'd get very bored, he wants more action. So he finally gets to be questioned and he goes and gets the action.


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[Assistant] Because they had a rotation, like one week they would be on assignment, one week they'd be training, and another week they'd be getting ready. And then in one week or so they'd be on assignment, they could be up at Fubai, then they'd go down to Khantung, wherever the most, depending on the weather, what missions were up.


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[Assistant] They would get the off-border and they would be in for their briefing prior to launch.


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[Assistant] When there, there is a one zero, the king bees, as we went further into the war, their briefing was say, we found.


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[Assistant] Uh, 23 Mike Mike here, 37 Mike Mike, anti-aircraft weaponry in those targets. So they would tell the Covey, and with their expertise would be another bonus that we had in terms of our briefing, where not to fly.


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[Assistant] That's one of the briefing parts. So when it's like, we hear what the mission was, get that from S3, but we'd always hear from them, then the Covey after that.


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[Assistant] And Marble Mount, right where FOB 4 was. So this is an in-country mission, and they're picking up a battalion to put it on the south side of Marble Mount, because FOB 4 was on the north side.


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[Assistant] But, and they were having some issues. They put the battalion out there for security purposes to work along with the Marines at that point. And so, seven o'clock in the morning, South Vietnam, he gets shot down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the jungle, this is, and there's mountains here. It's not like we're flying in Cambodia where it's flat.


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[Assistant] He's flying over the hills too, just, and uh, that's just part of this one, another day with a King Bee pilot, at night, with the lights out, and he got everybody out.


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[Assistant] Yeah, see here, if that had been a Yui, they're dead. Everybody's dead. But that's a King Bee. Yeah, the Yui can't take that kind of hit. And the RPG hit the engine and blew it out, which is a nine cylinder World War II engine from the B-17, but blew it out of the aircraft, and he still was able to talk about it and walk away from it.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, many time. And he's learning how to shoot the M79 in between the M16 and the M60, whatever rounds he has.


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[Assistant] On the job training in Laos.


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[Assistant] But yet they shot the rotor, the, the, the cable to the rotor. Yeaah, that's crazy. And the aircraft between the weight and the way he adjusted the cyclic stick. Yeaah. He flew back sideways and decreased the speed. It's like, I'd never heard that story. This is another one of those oh my god stories. Just another day flying king bees.


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[Assistant] Underneath the engine. Underneath the engine. They had an armor plate underneath about maybe 18 inches or 18 inches wide and would wrap up on the sides underneath the engine. That's about the only armor I'm aware of. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] Give a take, give a take a hundred. These are all Sahad missions.


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[Assistant] Probably a lot more than we realized. Mhm. Cause they had the LZ Watchers and they would like to get us on the ground first. Particularly by the end of 68 cause they had the uh, SOG Hunter Killer Teams that were out there and their main mission was to find us.


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[Assistant] So the insert usually would go well unless there are days.


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[Assistant] We had that time in November where we'd get shot out, the primary, the secondary, and the alternate. And the kingbies would go in, bing, bing, bing, go have lunch, they would refuel, have a little lunch, here's another target, go back and do it again. And often, they would come back with bullet holes, because we got, literally got shot out.


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[Assistant] There's enemy activity there, we wouldn't go. You know, you're a compromise. You want to at least get on the ground and get going with the mission.


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[Assistant] And we had several days like that back to back to back and the king piece got beat up. But fortunately none of us got shot down.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, it only had one door, but it had the windows, so whenever we're extracted, the first man in the shop would go to the left window.


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[Assistant] You mean the port side? Port, that's what I meant. I always get the port confused when I'm starving, unless I'm drinking port.


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[Assistant] And that would be your S.O.P. That's an army man right there. Indeed. The left side. Yes.


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[Assistant] And then, right here we can interject.


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[Assistant] Sometimes they would be in the air and there would be an emergency call for any helicopter, which he did in August of 1969. I forget what you were on, but this is that mission with Scarface.


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[Assistant] And uhm, Scarface was making a gun run and they were working in conjunction with the, uh,


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[Assistant] The 101st Airborne, on their air mobile units, and there was a, like a river stream and they were making a gun run. So the 101st had gone down with the Cobra, they had Cobras in, Scarface came in with a regular gunship, got hit,


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[Assistant] As it went down, it flipped over. Two of the crew members came out. It crashed upside down. They put out an emergency call. Ahn was there.


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[Assistant] Uh, cause this day there's two, those are two, uh, only two Scarface Marines, aviators that are still listed as MIA. I think it was the pilot and the crew chief cause the co-pilot got out and they were able to rescue those two and, uh,


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[Assistant] And the bubble of the front of the UAE where he put his, you know, the strut, put the wheel in and lifted up the helicopter and his crew chief goes and hangs out all while under enemy fire.


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[Assistant] So, in August 2000, Scarface honored Don at a banquet in San Diego to thank him for that heroic mission. And they helped get your award for that mission, correct, was that part of that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not yet, but that was one mission where he was just flying and they had to call for help. He responded to help Scarface because Scarface and the 100 first that protected king bees all the time.


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[Assistant] And you got shot up on that one too. It wasn't like we're just another day in the park. He's helping the Marines try to find those aviators and I'm not sure how many hits he got, but just the fact to go down the stream, put the strut underneath the front nose that had been knocked out and lifted up to give them a status report. Just another day with the king bees. Amazing.


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[Assistant] And that was always our golden, our golden moment. You're on the ground, you're in a firefight, and they say, the king bees are coming. It's like, thank God for the king bees.


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[Assistant] Well that's just like that mission later in the book with chapter 20 when they had the night bright light. Yeaah. Where the hatchet force had been in.


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[Assistant] They had severe casualties. They had all been exfiltrated out. The last helicopter went in was, again, a UA that went in on strings to pick up the team leader from the hatchet force. They had a sergeant that stayed back and a couple indigenous troops and the chopper got shot down, crashed.


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[Assistant] And then that night they asked to go in and this is October 69 and Lynn Black went in and on took them out again with no crew. They took them out at night.


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[Assistant] Found the LZ. They thought they were going to have to repel him, but somehow he's able to find an area big enough to get the king bean and went down.


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[Assistant] Lin Black got in, picked up the team member, had a broken back, and the other survivors, and then he came back again at night, picked up the team, and I think this time they had to pull him out in strings, and then they pulled him out.


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[Assistant] And this leads me to a quick sidebar. I don't know if this is you or not, but we had in 68 the king bees.


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[Assistant] The marines wanted to race the king bees to Fubai.


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[Assistant] H-34's, they still have some H-34's. Oh, so it's just, it's King Bee versus King Bee? Yea, but it's King Bee versus Marine Corps. Got it. With all the radios. So the Marines had to go around High Van Pass and go over to South China Sea. King Bee's fly up and over, bing, they get the food by, win $100.


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[Assistant] I don't know if that was you or not, but that was one of our favorite King Bee stories. The freshman always told that one.


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[Assistant] And then there's a very human side, like there's a few times after we get pulled out right at last light, we go up to the king bee parlor and say, hey, come on, I'll buy you a drink.


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[Assistant] And then Captain Ten would say, I'm going home to my family, or Captain Tuang. No, thank you, but I'm gonna go home to my family. I'll be back tomorrow. You buy me drinks tomorrow. And they'd come back and they had time and get in the clubhouse, have a drink before we go on the next mission.


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[Assistant] That's just amazing. So you had this whole. Yeaah, that's crazy thing about it too. That dichotomy. Yeaah. They're with her, they're flying home to her family. Jeez.


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[Assistant] And they always came for us. They never, you know, we never had them say no for us, any of our teams.


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[Assistant] He's flying from Kaeson, where we had FOB3. He would pick up teams and launch for targets from Kaeson.


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[Assistant] And of course, when you flew in the caisson, this is during the offensive. So, you know, that was, so he flies from that hot zone, flying the qualm tree, which is quote, a secure base and in route, there's three lines of NVA just practicing target, hit them 49 times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The realm hit the fuel tank and then the fuel ignites and the fire comes from the fuel tank into the cabin. He's at 500 feet trying to keep the aircraft stable to land while on fire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lot of canals, water, much water, very few roads.


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[Assistant] No, I think those are the major stories, uh, just the- The documented ones. Indeed.


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[Assistant] You know, we've covered the major points there, and uh, you know, just like that one time when the marines need help, here he comes. He just went there under fire, and so many times his king bees got shot up.


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[Assistant] I mean, 40, 50 rounds, the holes, just amazing stories, and the men.


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[Assistant] Thanks to the King Bee pilots, period. And of course the other aviators, but in our case, we had that direct relationship with them. They were our primary assets, they put us in, they always came to pull us out. The Pat Walkers thing you let off with, just a classic moment. It just captured the essence of that underground, intense firefight, and here comes the King Bee.


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[Assistant] And during the secret war, the king bees were...


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[Assistant] Our secret war had its secrets and one of the gems, one of the great assets were our kingbies. And we salute you every day and they're brothers in arms. So thank you for doing that, Jaco. It's an honor. We appreciate it. Thank you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe, maybe not, but yes, I think so. So, you know, he mentioned and we all know that he lost both his hands and then later on joined the fire department. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then at the end, which kinda gives you an insight to like how he's thinking, where he's like, yeah, I'm like retired and I kinda just, you know, made a joke, like I just sleep and watch TV. And he's like, man, I'm kinda looking for a part time job, like I gotta go do some stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yea, you know how they say, hey, don't bring your work home or what, you know, what's that saying? Yea. Right, that's another level right there. That's another level. Check.


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[Assistant] So yes, we can do more. So yea, alright, well, keep yourself, keep us, we're keeping ourselves in the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're all getting older. We're not getting younger. Put it that way. Maybe some of us are getting older. Okay, so you're just going back in time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you edit video, there's a thing you can do that freezes the frame. Right? So that's kind of what you, you, you feel that you're doing. Freezing the frame. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, cool. Well, when you're working out anyway, you need supplementation. That's undeniable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess you could deny it if you wanted to. Nonetheless, supplementing me. That'd be a mistake. I think you'd be a mistake. Yes, sir. So anyway, Jocko has supplements called Jocko Fuel. So these supplements include, but not limited to joint warfare for your joints, super cruel oil also for your joints, general health.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, maybe, maybe not. I don't drink coffee every single morning. But that's like, as far as morning routines go, coffee's not part of your routine, I know that. Definitely not part of my routine. But it's the discipline. Because you get a workout, right? So you take the discipline every morning before the workout.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, there you go. But nonetheless, and then uhm, yeah, so there is Potter version, also Capsule version, cool, that's when you're on the go, and then the energy drink, healthy energy drink version. See, this is a good one. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In, as far as energy drinks go, like we say, you can have an energy drink, but if, even saying energy drink kind of brings along the stigma of the energy drink. Definitely. Discipline. Go. Energy drink. RTD does not have that stigma because it is factually healthy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, cause you can't just blanket statement a lot of stuff. Like, okay, so my daughter asked me, what's your favorite color? So I'm like, alright, well it kinda depends. Like, let's say black was my favorite color. But, at the same time, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't necessarily want everything to be black. Some things I want to be red, like I don't want to eat a black strawberry. I'll tell you that. You see what I'm saying though? A lot of these questions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All these, all these things, Jocko Fuel available in various locations including originmain.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also speaking of origin, originmain.com, you can get there, you can get.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, yeaah, I did see a Pennsylvania probe in there for sure. Uhm, yes, good, okay, back to originbane.com. American made stuff, including geese, rash guards, jeans, American denim, and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also boots, like I said. Also, chocolate store. It's called Jocko's store. And speaking of clubs, we have another club. It's not really a club. It's just a subscript. Yeah, the club. I mean really, anyway, it's a subscription based t-shirt scenario.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, so it depends, oh doesn't it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yeaah, you know, these t-shirt ideas, you know, they come, they go, some stick, some don't stick, but this is like an opportunity for all of us to sort of, you know, capitalize on some of the cool t-shirt ideas that just fly in from time to time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and just like the ideas come and go, the shirts will come and go every month.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] JockoStore.com, that's where you can jump on that. If you want, also on JockoStore.com, you can get the Discipline Equals Freedom, uh, Good, all these stuff, all this stuff, shirts, hats, hoodies, you know, some cool stuff on there. So yea, if you want something, get something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No fantasies. You will always say that and hey man good, but when you think about it, YouTube channel, you're talking about enhanced videos, videos that we


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At some point started calling enhanced. Okay, maybe I made that up. But either way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're not that many of them. They're all just like the video version of this podcast and some excerpts of this podcast. So technically the YouTube channel is more you than anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nonetheless, yes, okay, so I understand now. I understand what you're saying and you're correct and I am corrected. And I understand that fully. And I accept that. Also, psychological warfare.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's an album. You know how you were talking about you make music sometimes? You're just making albums.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this is one of them. Anyway, this is not a music one though. This is Jocko helping you with each track!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Identify and help you overcome any weakness that might, that you might encounter. So uhm, that one is one of those things that's helpful, but it's 100% effective.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a good name. We always called him that in camp. Nobody called him Connor. It was like, hey cowboy, we knew who cowboy was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You do extra work for the government sometimes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good recruit. He speaks English. And as a hot commodity, we need a good English-speakers, interpreters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alaska before it becomes an island.


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[Assistant] That's why the Green Berets love our indigenous people.


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[Assistant] The nungs, like you said, he could smell. They had the extra sense that we never had, particularly somebody like me, a city slicker. That's why people like him are number one, and they kept us alive. In the jungle, we yielded to them. They always ran point, not us, and they got us out of trouble.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Camp, Camp Duck, which was, you pushed with the Camp Duck. That was the first, uh, SOG training base was up I-Corps. And Camp Duck was open, had bad weather, but that's where they did the initial training with our indigenous troops. Yeah, very close to the border.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, that was what com, at Cam Duck it was the first camp, so so many early SAW guys were there. And that was part of the recruitment that came through Saigon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's why a cowboy ended up there. And it was training, and plus the camp was so close to the border, you had self-defense at night. They would be, there would be pods. And the N.V.A. attacked the camp several times prior to May 68 when the camp got overrun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was, there's a whole book about that called Bait. And, uh, after that, they closed Camp Doc. And by that time, Alabama was already a FUB1 when they closed Camp Doc.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so I get there in May of 68, late May, McIntyre, and these guys came in with his team. And of course, you want to tell them about Alaska. Alaska, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody was killed except for the 1-0, John Allen, who escaped. And he came, he needed for two days and he caught a, one of the helicopter pilots brought him back and he said, we want to change the name of the team. They changed it from Alaska to Alabama.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then Tim Schauff was the 1-0 when they were training. John Allen first.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] CCN. CCN. But that was, it had to be closed after it would be one. But this is like, May was a very incremental month.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, the first, the first. The only reason why you didn't go on a mission, it was his turn to miss the mission, or he would have been on that mission with Alaska.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, yes. The medic. By that time he was unconscious and the medic was Bruce Johnson on that. Mission or in the helicopter. No, he, he didn't shine the cam. Okay. He, he died. And Bruce, how, what did he do? His elbow in your chest to wake, to get your heart going?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, Bruce was our medic, and so he died three times. Bruce told us about that years later, about how he brought him back to life, and they thought he was dead. They took him down to the field hospital right there at Fubi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sometimes the doctors, the American doctors there were reluctant. John Walton did that and had the same problem after his mission in August. And with Cowboy, they heard they weren't getting the right treatment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well his wife's brother was on ST Idaho when Idaho got wiped out in May of 68. That was your wife's brother.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Lang Vey was the aid camp that got overrun on Tet when he had the NVA tank and they captured some of our people as well as some of the indigenous people that took them back to the POWs. That family paid a high price.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's why Lin argued with the one zero saying that flag is just at least 3000 people here and we're nine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we go. Yeah, that was the last wrong decision he made in his life. Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's an LZ watch stand. They had a lot of those set up at different LZs that were, cause there's only so many in Laos at that point. So they had LZ watchers and they had some that were beginning to get platforms and that's one of the first ones I forgot about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they had a platform, that's what he's talking about. They saw, so in addition, they knew that they were compromised by the gunfire, they saw the platform, so he had to go back, and yet the 1-0 said, go down the trail.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He had come from Germany, so he'd been assigned to Germany, he had stateside duty, but he'd never been to Vietnam. So he was not familiar with working with our Vietnamese counterparts, listening to people like Cowboy, and listening to Lin. Lin had a whole year experience in combat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so he was one of these old school guys, I'm the leader, we're gonna do this. And that was the last bad decision he made in his life. Took the team into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well that's what they had there, and the 1-0 overruled them. And most of the times, our, we would listen to our, our indigenous people, our local people, if they said don't go there's a reason. And uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's just the mutual respect we had for him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Particularly once you're on the ground. So, it's just a matter of the rapport between, this was a new team that come together and they had just taken the Experience 1-0 off, who had combat experience, he had many missions, uh, Tim Schauff was the 1-0 prior, because the other


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They appointed him the team and, uh, they told Tim to give him another team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're out on the island with Tim Schauff, and they had that pre-training mission where they were out there. Pre-training for the mission. With Tim Schauff. With another, with Tim Schauff. Oh, okay, it's a different 1-0. Right, so Tim's experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and this is the one where the Navy saved, saved S.T. Alabama, because they were on this training mission and they had a lot of, it's an area where you had Viet Cong and N.V.A. But Thailand before, but Thailand and N.V.A. And so they, they got into a world of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Trouble there, world of shit with them. On a training mission. And they drove, and the NVA drove them down to the South China Sea. From their high ground, cause they had higher ground, drove them down, and Lin, fortunately, had a frequency for the Navy. And one of the Navy, not a PT boat, but a boat that had two, two or three fifty calibers on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they came in and picked a team up. Otherwise they would have been wiped out, right? On a training mission.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a rough training mission. It was. Cowboy wasn't happy about that either. No, I like it. Because it's free, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, we had a Chuhoy and then they knew the program. So they used the same word, surrender. And ST Alabama ended, answered it in fine style. With a car 15. One hand grenade, one magazine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what you're giving the handshake of the whole time. Get the king bees.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what the NVA, they're not used to recon teams charging. And that's what saved their lives at that point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we're getting ready for our mission on October 6th and then we were all ready. They said, you guys are ready. So we're going to do the bright light. And then they changed their mind leader because of all the intense fire and another helicopter got shot down in the process.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the covey, yes. And they're able to give them the control.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause like you said, you read earlier in the story, they declared a prairie fire emergency. So when the first ones out of the Marines, Scarface, when they expended, then the F1s came in, then the A1 Skybreakers, and then later we had Army. You know, the judging executioner. They came out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the airborne, airborne command ship for all of Southeast Asia. So they would fly over and they would do column checks at night, which is moonbeam. During the day it would be Hillsboro, sort of, uhm, and they stayed close in support, they were way above


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the activity with the covey and the fast movers. So that's one other level of communication. So if anything dropped off, like the coveys were in between.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then after the bugle blew, then things got ugly again. By then you had your walls built.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the first time we ever saw that, right? Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the NVA wasn't used to you guys running. Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, again they just, before they charge through the ranks several times, and then this one here, he's running, and then the others follow him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're firing with AK-47s by now, so that way, uhm, the NVA maybe wouldn't be so alert. If they heard Kar-15s, they would come quickly for the Kar-15s, but hearing AK, maybe they weren't sure. That may have helped also.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're running, you're bleeding, and you're firing Kar-15s with different sound. Along with the AKs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you had tried 14 times before that? The last time I did 15 times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These are all people on our teams that got killed. And the two other Americans on Alaska, when it got wiped out, when Alan survived, the two Americans were crying and came.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, that happened, we all thought Cowboy Finny will never see Cowboy again, we all heard that. I don't know, I don't think there's anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well the only thing we miss would be if we, if you want to talk about the day he was with the Frenchman, that historic day when the Frenchman got shot in the back four times. If you remember that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well you got new shrapnel too. You had new shrapnel wounds from that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was King and Kryan that were KIA on Alaska when John Allen escaped. He, he, he needed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shout out to Carter and Kyle. Long live the Legion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your mission is sacred. You carry it out until the end and you know you have a mission. You know you do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes sir. That's where it comes from. There's a show called Big Brother. Oh, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like they, I think they used to play it on like Showtime where it's like Big Brother Live and you can just tune in and watch them do nothing like do normal everyday stuff. But here's the thing, there's, I think there's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so that makes sense. If it was just a picture of him doing his homework, you couldn't see the homework. That's different. That's weird. But if you can see what homework he's doing, oh yeah, that's good. Why is that? Why are you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, the, it's different cause big brother is like them doing normal stuff all day, all night. That's big, big brother life, but they have a voice in there too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, I'm just saying in real life there's a word called uncool, and the short version is unz. Wonkwai, that's what it is. It's called unz? Yeaah, but it's not the temperature cool, it's you being cool, or uncool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unz is like just short for it. So if I'm walking behind you, I trip your foot. That's unz. Pretty unz, yea. And yea, actually you know what? It's more used for stuff that's like more unz than that. It's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Severe, yes. I think so. In my experience, that's how it is. Like if I, if I trip you and you fall and it's in front of some people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, very rarely. If you do it on purpose, it's on shirt or no shirt, I think. But actually, you know what, now they think it's essentially the same thing. Yeah. Except the plus part. I guess if you replace it with very, cause there's like plus plus, right? If you say that's very cool. No, there's double plus. Double plus, yes, yes, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what's actually kinda scary, if you let it be scary, is like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yea, and that makes sense cause, bro, I get, you know when I first got into whatever I got into, it was, uh, HTML. Oh, we're talking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The computer's like, hey, tell me what to do, I'll do it. But you better tell me the right thing. If you, I don't know, I don't know about tones, you tell me the words or the characters or whatever, and I'll do it. And you can tell them like, accidentally the wrong thing, they're gonna do that thing. That's exactly what a computer does, so you better be specific.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah. That, that, oh man, that's so, that's so true. So like in HTML as well, right? So it's essentially like, and you, you talk about you're an English major, and you know how it's like, you're gonna have a hard time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. So, the reason that, okay, so I'm not an, I'm not an English major. But I talk English to other people. And here's this little factor in English is one of the main differentiators


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you could probably say yes. There is that little soft wiggly room, you know? Or if I misspeak and say someone else's name, but you know I meant this other guy's name in a story or something like this. And I can be like, oh, you know what I mean. And you'd be like, yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. There's, that does not exist in, in HTML. Yeah. You can't be like, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Obviously millions of examples, but like you have analog and digital, like even if you go film, right? If you go film, there's little imperfections in there that make it kind of a softer kind of feel, and then digital is kind of hard, even though digital is getting so advanced where it's kind of incorporating that kind of stuff in there. But CGI, for example.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, if you look at early CGI, you're like, bruh, that's so lame because it's too perfect. It's too, like, computer-y. It looks like a video game almost, right? You forgot, like, all the light bouncing off of this thing, that leaf over there, and all the light spill from this color of this guy's shirt, and all the imperfections, all that stuff is all in play in real life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's how like real life is, you know? And then, but you try to recreate it in a computer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's one way to put it, yeah. Exactly. I wasn't checking you, I was like, you know how you wanna expose the example? It's kinda like that, like where...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you weren't making a point, or were you? It didn't seem like you were making a point that one was necessarily better or worse, you were just identifying what the difference. That's what it seemed like, so that's why I was asking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but I would think that that would still have this analog feel to it if it was physical paper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] CJ has a big one, again, back to that, like, you know, how they computer, and still they don't have this down at all. I don't know, I mean, it's, they're getting good, I don't think they're very even close to it yet, but uhm, you know, they can recreate certain things digitally.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In CGI, like water and machines and light and all this stuff. And some of it, they have it straight up. They have it down. But if you come.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When it comes to the human face, the human face, when it's anim- when it's not animated, it's good. It's pretty solid. They can get skin tones and reflections and transparency, all that stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think so, yeaah, I believe that is the case. But as of right now, you can get the best, best, best one when it's completely made from CJ. Cause now they get a real person's face and they match this and match that and even then man, it's really hard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, unless it's like a super simple expression, or a pause or something like that. But you get someone to talk, a CGI face to talk, no matter how good it is, it looks weird. It looks actually scary. Cause it looks like, oh, uh, uh, are you trying to be a person? What about the deep fakes?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you, when you think about it or whatever, there's, I mean, for different reasons, obviously. But uhm, yeaah, the deepfakes, they take an actual face though. It's not recreated digitally. They take your actual face from...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A million or however many available representations of your face actually exist. They take that and then they match it up to another face. So that's a different process. But if you get basically essentially a sculptor,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a rigger, it's rigging, it means like, oh I'm gonna control this eyebrow and this eyelid and all this stuff. You rig everything, the best, best guys, it's gonna look like a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Weird. Like a weird monster. And there's a word for it. The fact that it's weird, it's called the uncanny valley. And it's like, so it's this valley between the real deal, recognizing it as the real deal, and then a fake deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the smaller the uncanny valley, the more offsetting it is. So if it's like a straight up robot face, like remember the back, like short circuit, remember that movie, short circuit number five, anyway, it's a robot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like ET even, for example, if it's so obviously not a person, no one ca-, it's not gonna off put anybody. Everyone's gonna be like, okay cool, it's a non-person, whatever it is, robot, alien, whatever. But if it is a person, but it's not exactly, exactly straight up a real person, everyone's gonna be freaking weirded out by it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's like the difference between, you know, when you take a test.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's all kinds of tests, right? So there's like, if you go down the spectrum of tests, there's like the, the essay question, or the thesis, really, the straight up thesis. There's probably more comprehensive tests than that, but, well, thesis. Then you got your essay question test.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then you got, uh, multiple choice and then true false. No, actually there's a few before multiple choice because you got your, um, like, hey, what's this? And you have to say the answer. Okay, fill in the def. Fill in the def, fill in the blanks, sentence, word, whatever. Then you got your multiple choice, right? A, B, C, D, E, all the above, not the above, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then you got your True-False. True-False. Yeah, so now you got just straight binary now. True-False.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No room for freaking nuance, no nothing. You see what I'm saying?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but a lot of those, so true, and I'm sure educators have a good grasp on why you would ever administer a true false question, uh, test versus, you know, any of the other ones. And I hope anyway, because man, if you're doing like a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like a history, true, false, like that's way more dangerous because of like how much nuance or in perspective, like, if you go, okay, so my daughter will ask me questions and I'll always answer, and I told you this before, where I'll always answer with deep ends.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, what's your favorite color? Freaking depends. Bro, my favorite color...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most actually, my favorite color actually is black, and they know that, but then she'll always probe me, be like, what's your favorite color, what's your favorite color, and then so it makes you think about it, you know? So I'm like, black, but bruh, I'm not gonna wear like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, like you know how every once in a while you see like one of these little diagrams. And they say like, I don't know if they actually, I don't think they say this is proper, but the whole diagram implies that it's proper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's like, very good. And then they say, don't say very good, say excellent. Got it. Don't say whatever, say that, you know, they like, they tell you the actual word for very, like, don't, and it's, it's in a weird way, it almost seems like it's the opposite of that, you know, where if it's like, hey, yeah, they're trying to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting kinda seems ambiguous, like it's interesting in a good way or a bad way. Fascinating is like, I'm, it's like wonderfully interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that what this is? No, maybe, I don't know, certain levels. Anyway, uhm, even in slang, we have that, you know, like even like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh right, like they, they kind of throw it all kind of into one almost, like uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's really interesting because like, their little parts of that, like all of that stuff that they're doing and trying to do or whatever, we do that in little ways. And it's actually, the thing is it's useful and it's actually beneficial in a lot of ways.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the same thing with like methodology in general. So if you like, okay, so the binary thing, right? The binary thing. They're implementing that in language across the board, or that concept anyway, across the board. That's bad. But you can use that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is why this whole book is interesting. It's basically one of the many lessons or whatever. It's like you can take a good thing and just take it too far if you implement it across the board. A lot of this stuff, a lot of this stuff, again, in teeny tiny doses or used just like sparingly is like, it's a good thing. It's like salt, really.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I don't want them to quite do, my daughter does them, or wants to do them whatever, I don't know, I don't need her like slipping and bashing her shin with that little kettle, I don't know. Anyway, burpees all day, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes sir, okay, makes sense, makes sense to me. So, anyway, uhm, so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My daughter was there and she was like, uhm, talking about like how her leg, cause she went to that running thing where her legs are all sore and all this stuff. Meanwhile, my son, he's over here getting after it or whatever, right? And he's like, hey, I'm doing this or whatever so I can be strong. So my daughter's there listening. So I was like, yeah, it's true. And you're going to understand in life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Strong, they say strong. What's it better? To know how to do something or to not know how to do something? They say to know how to do something. So, okay, what's better? To be healthy or unhealthy? They say healthy or whatever, right? So, obviously life is, there's way more to it than just that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See, that's another one of those things. On the surface you'd say, yeah, kettlebell swings all day. But, the point is, there's a lot more to it than that. But, if I use that binary terminology, just for that moment, it's going to send a message more effectively.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Granted, it's a good message at this point, but you apply that across the board by you just eliminate understanding, nuance, all these important things. Yes, I get it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, if, if I have a steak, come on, Jocko's steak, right? All day. If I have a steak, I put a little bit of salt on it. Does that make it better or worse? In your opinion, that's an opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All salt. You put the whole thing. Wouldn't be good, yep. Actually, let me start eliminating some of the steaks to make room for more of the salt. In fact, at the end of the day, let's remove the whole steak. Just salt and pepper. Oh wait, you want it in pepper, right? Salt and pepper. Right, your day is not even good. It's not even the same thing. You see what I'm saying?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To influence their thoughts, for sure. Across the board, maybe not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're expanding our capabilities, our strength, our health, all that stuff. Alright, that's what this path is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, in the spirit of being pathful,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You see what I'm doing there? Anyway, we got supplements, boom, jackal fuel. We got stuff for your joints so you don't have to think about them aching anymore. You don't have to worry about thinking about them aching anymore. Thinking about that stuff won't even exist. It'll be impossible to even think about it. It'll suck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, joint warfare, uhm, also super krill oil. These things help your joints, boom, keep you in the game. Even as we age.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This human existence. Also, discipline and discipline go. It's for your mind, for your body too. It's a daily thing, I think. But yes, enhance your cognitive capabilities as far as capabilities go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know, uh, well, I thought we covered that, as far as the brushing the teeth part, because the routine is, it's nuanced. Anyway, it's because, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When the whole COVID thing came to my shores, I was like, I grabbed the vitamin D3 in the cold war. I was that, like my mind shifted to that as the priority. And then it'd be like one day, oh, I didn't take the Creole oil.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know? Not because like, oh I neglected, I was like, okay, I'm just gonna take this now, or whatever. It's not as implemented into the routine as it should be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what it is? No. This is, this is really what it is now that I'm like analyzing my whole mind, cause you're right. You're, you're speaking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. So here's the thing. I'm violating two rules. Or maybe it's just one rule with different terms. Resting on my laurels and complacency.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you know how like, bro, my joints don't hurt, so I'm not compelled to solve any problems. You see what I'm saying? But I'm not kind of, I'm not taking my own advice. You know how you like, you don't want to think about that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Until I start feeling it, yeaah. But, oh, I'm not, like, awful. I don't have issues right now. But I'm just saying, like, as far as 100% daily, the way that, that, when I, when I do put it together, I'm just not doing that. But I'm getting there. But yeaah, no issues for sure. Uhm, but that's, I think,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, the lesson there is, even take, I gotta take my own advice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't want to think about that kind of stuff, but the only way to not think about your joints hurting or hurting in the future is to, through discipline, take them every day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know that I say take it every day. I say take it so you don't have to worry about your joints. But look, I'm saying it right now and I'm starting doing it right now. How about that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Discipline and discipline go for your brain, for your body, for your whole thing, for your whole life, really.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Discipline go in a can. That's what I'm gonna talk about. You like energy drinks? Cool. You don't like energy drinks? Yeah, I know why. Cool. Discipline go in a can is everything that an energy drink should be and more. It's like a health.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's all the good without the bad. It's all the good without the bad. It's all the good without the bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's fully good. It's in Wawa. Right now. It's online. You can get it wherever you want. Accessibility is not the issue.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And represent at the same time, just, hey man, you can go jockelstore.com, get a discipline shirt, hoodie, hat, some rash guards on there. Uh, we do have a t-shirt club, if you're into it, if you're into representing monthly variety, different stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A little un-good. You heard it here, first Jocko's idea. Good one, I like it. It's, uh, it's not un-good, I'll tell you that. Uhm, but yes, t-shirt color every month, you know, it's like one of those things in the theme of today's deal. It's, it's not narrowing down your options for representation.


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[Assistant] Expanding them. See what I'm saying? So anyway, yeaah. T-shirt club. Uh, check that out if you want. Boom. On JockoStore.com.


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[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 265 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo.


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[Assistant] And also joining us tonight is Dave Burke. Good evening, Dave. Good evening. So last podcast, we...


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[Assistant] Introduced Marine Corps doctrinal publication one tack for which is called competing and of course, we only made it one chapter deep because Well, there's a lot to go into and so we're going to continue on


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[Assistant] But first we're gonna take a little tangential trip into my head a little bit, so.


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[Assistant] In reading that manual, and as I talked, and I talked about this, I started correlating competing with


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[Assistant] Influencing, and you take that one step further, which isn't a very big step. What is influencing? Influencing is leading. That's what you're doing. So,


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[Assistant] One of the main things that I liked about this Marine Corps concept of competing was this idea of this continuum of competition that they present in this book. It goes from pure peace on one side, just pure peace.


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[Assistant] And then it starts to move to the right. It goes to economic competition and then


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[Assistant] To lead and influence people. And, and it draws some very interesting parallels.


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[Assistant] As soon as you cross that first little threshold, well now you've got someone that you want to influence.


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[Assistant] You want them to follow a plan or you want them to execute an action or you want them to execute a behavior.


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[Assistant] So now we're on to the continuum of influence, or the continuum of leadership. So what does it start with?


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[Assistant] Well, it starts when we're trying to build a relationship with that person. That's where we're gonna begin. And while it's interesting, what's the best way to start building a relationship with someone? You let them start to influence you.


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[Assistant] So as soon as you're saying, oh, hey that's a good, hey I like that, I like what you're doing. And you know there's that.


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[Assistant] Actual mimicry of what you're doing, mirroring what you're doing, and that's my first way of showing you that I'm allowing a little influence, so now let's start to build a good...


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[Assistant] A good rapport between us. So that's, that's, you know, like the lowest level.


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[Assistant] But that's level one, right? It's an incredibly important level, but it's level whatever, .008 or whatever that number is.


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[Assistant] So, so we're just listening, we're letting them model, we're, we're, we're mirroring their behavior a little bit. Eventually, as we start to escalate,


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[Assistant] We start to model our behavior for them a little bit. We start acting a certain way. We're not asking you to do it. We're just doing it.


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[Assistant] And we're hoping that that influence


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[Assistant] Rubs off on the other person and now they start to, they start to do the same thing.


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[Assistant] And, and this is another thing that you can do, you do it subconsciously, maybe you do it consciously, but, you know, people are in a line at a grocery store. And a new line opens up.


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[Assistant] Of, of modeling behavior and setting, well this is what we hear all the time, right? Set the example. Set a good example. That's a good way to lead. For sure. That's, that's, that's outstanding.


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[Assistant] Eventually though, maybe that's not enough, right? Maybe we're trying to, maybe we're trying to influence someone to do something, either follow a plan, adjust their behavior, uhm,


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[Assistant] He has to detach to actually figure out why he's doing it.


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[Assistant] Escalation on this continuum that we're going through.


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[Assistant] You, I'm guiding Dave, in this case, I'm guiding Dave to discover


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[Assistant] But, but sometimes it doesn't work. And sometimes even though someone detaches, they just don't, they can't get far enough away from that thing. So where does it go from there? Well, now I'm gonna maybe offer an indirect little statement about what's going on. You know, just a little, you know, do, do you think, do you think it's, uhm, distracting when you do that? If someone's watching you? I, I have, you know, I've always found that


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[Assistant] We escalate a little bit more and now, you know, it's my, my metaphors about to lose a little bit of traction because that's such a minor thing that this next step


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[Assistant] Well, to say, hey, why don't we make a pro, like a pro con list about fidgeting your pen, right? Now if we were talking about


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[Assistant] Asking, like, hey, why don't we do some pros and cons? That way, once again, what am I doing? You're gonna have to detach to a pros and cons list. That's one of the benefits of doing a pros and cons list. Is it detaches you, takes some of those emotions away, and now we're sitting here saying, okay, Dave is detached to say, well, these are some positive things, it helps me think, it gives me something to do with my hands,


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[Assistant] Alright, let's go to the market area. Hey, here's the positive things about the market area. We don't have any stores there.


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[Assistant] Uhm, there seems to be a decent market. Here's the cons. It's going to be high rents in that area. Whatever. So now you can start to reveal


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[Assistant] You reveal. Instead of me revealing you, hey man, the rent over there is ridiculous. Instead of me revealing that to you, which offends you,


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[Assistant] In general, it offends people to just tell them anything. It's much better when you tell me, now all of a sudden it's your idea and this is a beautiful thing.


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[Assistant] Where I'm moving in that direction, I'm still trying to indirectly influence you.


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[Assistant] And maybe the next thing I do is offer some kind of a bargain. Some kind of a negotiation.


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[Assistant] Where I say, hey, you know, maybe now is not the right time to go in that market and maybe we look at it next quarter. Right, so it's a little negotiation.


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[Assistant] To try and see if, if I can get you to think a little bit more about it. It's just a negotiation.


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[Assistant] You know, do this. Maybe we, maybe we'll do it at the next quarter. Yeah, yeah, we can do that.


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[Assistant] And there's another little technique that's going on there too, which is I'm giving you an out.


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[Assistant] Right. Yeah, we'll wait till next. Yeah, that's probably a good idea, right? So you are sort of, you start to see some of those issues, but you don't want to concede.


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[Assistant] Which is revealing some shortfalls. Like, just saying to you, hey, you know the rents in that area are really high, and by the way, two


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[Assistant] Similar businesses went into that market and both of them washed out and that happened in the last 18 months. Those are real concerns.


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[Assistant] And even when I do that, so now I'm showing you, like those are no longer things that you revealed. Those are now things that I'm telling you. So this is a, this is a transition. And-


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[Assistant] And, and I'm sure you're tracking this, but this whole thing is interlaced with leadership capital. This whole thing is interlaced. So, the other ones, when you, when I allow you to reveal something to me, my leadership capital goes up. When I tell you something, my leadership capital takes a little, takes a little bit of it. Not, not, nothing crazy, but we're not neutral, right? Some of those in the middle might be neutral.


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[Assistant] Offer them another option. What's another option to their plan? What's another option to their behavior? You know, hey, maybe


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[Assistant] And then the, the kind of the final sort of indirect way is, you know, uh,


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[Assistant] Hey Dave, why don't we put one in this market area over here now?


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[Assistant] And then next time we'll put one in this marketer that you want to go into. So again, a lot of these are just kind of bargaining and kind of repetitive, but they're all,


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[Assistant] Different levels of bargaining from, hey we do this later, to hey we will do this, or we hold off. There's a bunch of different ways to bargain through it.


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[Assistant] And then eventually, so, so now you go through these methods, these attempts,


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[Assistant] To discuss something or to, to influence someone and every one of these attempts is an indirect attempt.


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[Assistant] Every one of these attempts is me trying to get you to kinda come on board with what I'm saying without


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[Assistant] It's the threshold of going from indirect to direct.


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[Assistant] And now I am absolutely, it's gonna cost me leadership capital. At this time, I'm now, it's now gonna cost me leadership capital.


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[Assistant] Which, hey look, there's times we have leadership capital in the bank, and if I've been working with Dave for five years and we've done a bunch of stuff and it's all gone great, and he's risen up through the company, and all of a sudden I gotta call in some chips and say, hey man, you know what, we're not doing that. And he goes, got it. You know, I'm not saying it doesn't cost me something, but I can afford it.


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[Assistant] And by the way, we'll get to this. The number of times that I make it across the threshold of direct is so miniscule, I can't remember times.


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[Assistant] What happens after that is now you, now you, now you have to have a stick, right? Outcomes is cause we, we were, we had the carrot out for a while.


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[Assistant] You know, theoretically in the business world of the highest level of escalation is like, I'm gonna fire you.


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[Assistant] Right? Hey if you don't do what I'm telling you to do, you are going to get fired. I'm going to fire you.


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[Assistant] I grab you, I put you back in your car and I, you know, say you better back out of this thing right now.


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[Assistant] That's where they begin. That's where they begin with their employees. They start with, this is what you're gonna do. That's where they start. And once, once you


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[Assistant] And in fact, in fact, if you go negative, if I go, if I'm your boss Dave, and I go negative, and I actually let you influence me, and I say, you know what Dave, that looks like a great marketer, I didn't even think of going in there.


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[Assistant] If I'm in the negative, if I'm in that other chart where you're actually influencing me.


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[Assistant] The amount of times I've crossed that threshold in my life.


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[Assistant] From a leadership perspective is freaking tiny. And I'll tell you where, let's just throw it.


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[Assistant] One, one place it happens all the time is it happens with kids all the time. Right? With kids all the time, it's... It's... CREEN YOUR ROOM!


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[Assistant] Why? Cause I said so. There you go. Yup. You just went right to the, hey, direct over.


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[Assistant] I'm gonna order you what to do. Horrible thing to do. Happens with employees.


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[Assistant] Happens up and down the chain of command. And here's what's interesting.


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[Assistant] Right, so every time you bark at someone, they're, they might do what you said, but there isn't an equal and opposite reaction.


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[Assistant] A lot of people need to think about this. So in the same way that the Marine Corps put together this manual to let everybody know that


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[Assistant] There's, that they're competing all the time. You should also know that there's a continuum, that you're on a continuum of competition all the time.


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[Assistant] I question what he's saying. Hey Dave, why are we doing that? What's the next level? Hey Dave, I don't think we should do that. We get some resistance going.


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[Assistant] Then we get to objection. This is a bad idea. And then we eventually get to refusal. And then we get to mutiny. So there's a continuum there as well. And there's some people that start off, you know, if they don't have a...


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[Assistant] If they're not thinking strategically, they go right to this, this doesn't make any sense. That's where, that's where they go right to.


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[Assistant] They're jumping right there. And now all of a sudden what are they gonna get back? An equal and opposite reaction which says shut up and do what I told you to do.


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[Assistant] So we don't want to go to war. We want to build relationships.


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[Assistant] We want to build relationships with other country. We are other nation states. We want to have a relation. We don't want to go to war. War costs us money and lives.


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[Assistant] We don't want that. We don't wanna go to war with our employees. We don't wanna go to war with our teammates. If you recognize this continuum,


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[Assistant] How much am I gonna escalate? What's the next lowest minimum step I could take in my escalation? So that's what we need to do. We need to pay attention to that.


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[Assistant] I don't have to do this. I can barely think of times when I've had to do this.


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[Assistant] And wise, cause I listen to what other people have to say, I dig in. I don't dig in to my position. I don't think my position is infinitely better than yours. I think probably if you and I both wanna


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[Assistant] Yeah, the, the other thing is as I brush up against, um, Hey, well, maybe it's the time. Maybe it's the time to go direct in this situation.


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[Assistant] Be a better influencer, have a better relationship, explain myself better, do some bargaining, talk about it, maybe I'm wrong, maybe the font that he's using is actually better for these and, and by the way, has he picked a font that's illegible? Right? Has he picked a font that's illegible? Is it, is it Cyrillic? Is that the right word?


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[Assistant] Cyrillic? Is that the right word? Like the Russian? Yeah. Is it, is he picked a font that is illegible in English? Right.


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[Assistant] And then, then I kinda have to make a stand, but if it's legible, if people can read it, why am I freaking out? The answer is I'm stupid. I wanna waste my leadership capital on something that doesn't matter.


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[Assistant] No, you'd actually say, oh well which one have you been using? And I'd say, oh I've been using Ariel.


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[Assistant] Because just vice versa, I'm not sitting here telling you to use Cyrillic fonts that can't be read by uhm, by English speaking humans. So you're, so what do we do?


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[Assistant] I'm, I'm offering a little suggestion and you're going, oh yeah, that's a great suggestion. My leadership capital went up. Your leadership capital went up. It's a beautiful thing. Or we can have World War 7 about a font.


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[Assistant] For you to say, it's, first of all, to tackle the loss for you to say, you need to change this font. This, you need to use Arial. Cause that's what I use. Yeaah, okay. Great.


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[Assistant] Oh hey, by the way, it's different, that font's different on other systems, and now it looks like just a horrible thing. But if you're smart, you go, hey, oh you like Ariel? Cool. Got it. We're moving forward.


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[Assistant] Be surprised. Alright. It's interesting, isn't it?


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[Assistant] I said, do you think the mic picks up that noise?


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[Assistant] The, the no kidding, when I asked you that question, I was earnestly asking that question. Like, do you think that's gonna show up? Now,


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[Assistant] It's an earnest question. Do you think that clicking is going to show up on this podcast?


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[Assistant] I'm not gonna let it, I'm not gonna let it bother me. If it's not gonna show up, it's not gonna be on the audio, then who cares?


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[Assistant] I'm not gonna care about that if you wanna click your pen all day. Cool. It's not bothering me. It's not gonna be on the- we're good.


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[Assistant] But, I mean, it's, it's, we did know the answer, kind of, cause we can hear it.


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[Assistant] That's why it's all interlaced with leadership capital. Because if you start off day one, by saying, I don't like the way you talk, that's, you just went into a deficit immediately. And now you gotta dig your way out of that.


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[Assistant] Well, I'm eventually going to run out of leadership capital and start going in a bad way. And your, your attitude is, all Jocko does is just tell me what I do wrong.


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[Assistant] So I always kind of treat every situation as if, okay, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm lean. I'm running lean. It's going to be lean Christmas. As my parents used to tell me, going to be lean Christmas. So I always think I don't have leadership capital to spare because also,


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[Assistant] What if I really need leadership capital tomorrow? What if tomorrow I go, hey Dave, I know it's your...


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[Assistant] I want that account to be as built up as I possibly can, so that means I'm not gonna waste leadership capital on little things that don't matter. Not gonna happen.


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[Assistant] You have the threshold of violence. We have the f- the- the- on the continuum.


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[Assistant] On the war continuum, on the com- on the competing continuum, there's a threshold of violence. There's actual real violence with- with influencing people. Like you have to admit that, that you can push people around and you can smack them and you can beat them up. Like that's a- there's a- there's a threshold of violence on the- on the influence


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[Assistant] On the influence continuum, before that there's, there's a one between direct and indirect. So you cross that one, which is a, which is a huge one. That's like the big one. Now of course, I guess the threshold of violence is a big one too on influence, cause now you're getting charged with assault.


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[Assistant] Uhm, which is pretty normal for me to think about these things non-stop. So, competing.


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[Assistant] We're U.S. Marine Corps, brand new manual, one tack four, it's called competing. Last, uh, last time we covered chapter one, this time we're covering chapter two. This one's, chapter two is called the theory of competition, and it says competition as an act of policy.


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[Assistant] As states engage in competition, or try to shape the competitions ongoing among the range of state and non-state actors involved,


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[Assistant] In areas of interest to states, they develop policies frame to frame order and apply resources to this activity. Marines need to understand policy, how it's developed and how it relates to ongoing competition.


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[Assistant] My little note here just says, what are you doing? This is me making notes to myself. What are you doing?


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[Assistant] It was an early po- it was a pretty early podcast, I don't know which one. But when I started talking about what game are you playing,


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[Assistant] And, and you can be playing the wrong game? With your life?


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[Assistant] And if you're looking up and you're like, man, I'm doing everything I can, but I just, I'm not putting any points on the board. Well, if you're playing soccer.


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[Assistant] You might not be putting any points on the board because there's only one goal, a game, or three.


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[Assistant] Maybe you should be playing basketball, where you can score 48 points a game.


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[Assistant] So with this competition, what are you competing in? And who are you competing against?


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[Assistant] Understanding the larger context around policy decisions helps Marines determine the broader intent behind specific decisions, which in turn helps us make sound supporting plans. What does that mean? Everyone should know why they're doing what they're doing.


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[Assistant] Since we acknowledge competition as an enduring condition. That's a great, that's a great phrase. I want to adopt that one.


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[Assistant] Enduring condition. It's just ongoing. It's forever. In internal relations.


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[Assistant] Protection of the American homeland and people, promotion of American prosperity, and the advancement of the American influence in the world.


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[Assistant] The contemporary environment will affect these specifics of policy, but the enduring foundation for it consists of stable,


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[Assistant] Interest such as these. So what, what, the reason I, and again, uh, sometimes I look like, oh, we can kind of breeze over this part. Then I say, no, you can't.


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[Assistant] Because if you, if you think about your life, okay, you can think about your business for sure. What is it that your business is trying to do?


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[Assistant] Like, do you think a marine wakes up in the morning and says, okay, today I'm gonna maintain our, the, maintain our constitutional values? Is he saying, alright, I've gotta protect the American homeland of people? We kinda, we kinda know that one. Promotion of American prosperity. So there's these, there's these things that are so big, such big strategic goals, that they shape every decision that you make. They should.


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[Assistant] The advancement of American influence around the world. If a marine goes out and does something stupid in...


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[Assistant] Name a foreign country. Goes out and acts like, gets drunk and acts like an idiot. Has he helped the advancement of American influence in the world? No, he hasn't. And that's what he's gonna hear.


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[Assistant] From his commanding officer, you just made all Marines look bad and you just made America look bad. By getting drunk and getting in a fight or whatever you did that was stupid. And that Marine can't deny that. He says, Roger sir, it was a bad move.


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[Assistant] You have to get in line to get off the ship and sometimes it'd take an hour or two hours So what we would do is we'd work out soon as we got as soon as we hit the pier We would work out. This is like 1990 whatever


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[Assistant] What are you trying to, where are you trying to go with your life? What's the broad, what's the broad strategic mark that you're trying to make? Do you have one? Do you have one? And if you don't have one,


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[Assistant] How are you making decisions? You're making decisions for, with no, with no steering whatsoever, without a compass.


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[Assistant] Enduring interests provide Marines a potential source of competitive advantage.


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[Assistant] Adhering to our values when done as part of a comprehensive strategy can serve to attract others and work in harmony with Marines, with what Marines learned from an early age.


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[Assistant] Values such as freedom of expression and press freedom can help frustrate the plans of some competitors. Positive sum interests such as increasing American prosperity also help attract allies and partners. This is especially true when we can, when we can show how our interests align with theirs.


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[Assistant] Isn't that interesting? If we can work together, we're going to be better off.


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[Assistant] We're stronger together. We're stronger together than we are fighting each other.


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[Assistant] Everything you do impacts the competitors and the competition itself.


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[Assistant] As mentioned in chapter one, there are often multiple centers of power in each nation and the struggle amongst them often creates ambiguity in the minds of outside observers. These struggles affect internal politics and often drive or limit current policy choices. This is true in the United States. For example, when we see the deliberations on national policy among three co-equal branches of the government,


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[Assistant] Ideas of how we're gonna get where we're going, sometimes unfortunately even disagree on where they're going. Which is bad.


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[Assistant] And that's something with all the, uh, political mayhem that we're facing in America right now. I guess maybe mayhem's, well, with what we're facing right now, we'll just call it, we won't, we won't, we won't put a,


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[Assistant] We won't put a, we won't assign a word to it because different people will assign it different words. We'll say that there's disagreements in America right now.


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[Assistant] This is what, this is, this is a democracy is going to be messy. But you're gonna get a better result in the end.


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[Assistant] But for, for my point man to say, Hey Jaco, I don't think that's a good route to get into the target.


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[Assistant] We've got to hope that we are aligned enough that we say, oh, we want our economy to get better. Okay. Can anyone, does anyone disagree with that? All right.


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[Assistant] Maybe we disagree on how we get there, but at least we have this one thing that we know we're moving towards. And you can say that about, do we want there to be poverty in the country?


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[Assistant] Is there anyone that says, yeah, what I really think we need in America is more poverty? No, no one's saying that. There's not one person that's saying we need more poverty in America.


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[Assistant] So no matter who you are, you're saying, yep, you know what? We don't want poverty. We want less poverty. Great.


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[Assistant] Now you might think we get there one way, someone else thinks you get there another way. Okay, let's figure out what those things are, and then we can discuss how we get there. But it's okay if we disagree, because we're just trying to find the best solution.


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[Assistant] And I say, shut up, we're going my way. And he goes, no we're not, that's stupid. And all of a sudden we're in a fist fight, our platoon is falling apart.


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[Assistant] So what we do is we listen to each other. And we look for the best possible solution. And maybe, you know, as you, I always try and just agree with the other person.


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[Assistant] No. Actually, Dave, you know what? Your way sounds great. Why? Because I already sa- I just- I just in that moment, I saved 30 minutes of you and I arguing about it.


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[Assistant] And by the way, there's so many unknowns on that route that I don't know, and you don't know, and no one can know, and so I'm actually arguing about something that I have no idea.


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[Assistant] Am I gonna argue with you for 15 minutes of difference? No! Sounds good Dave!


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[Assistant] So why don't I have to, why can't I let Dave do whatever, why can't I almost always say I'm gonna go with someone else's plan? Because I worked with Dave for long enough, and by the way,


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[Assistant] For United States Marines, understanding current policy relies in part on understanding the interplay between domestic politics and our enduring vital national interests. Shouldn't everyone just kind of have enduring vital interests for their family, for their business, for their life? Shouldn't we all have those things? Yes, we should.


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[Assistant] Yes, we should. Aspects of domestic politics like the election cycle and contemporary societal issues affect current policy. These aspects are typically felt by Marines through such things as resourcing decisions, guidance on the composition of the force, and specific direction to focus particular national interests or particular competitors. You should know the story about what's going on.


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[Assistant] That whole thing right there, hey, Corporal Smith, that just heard me read that, that said, hey bro, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not tracking. What this means is, you need to


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[Assistant] No, it's just, just understand what's happening in the world and understand that what's happening in the world is gonna sorta guide what the Marine Corps is doing.


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[Assistant] International competition particularly among nations plays out over a long timeline. Oh, what timeline is that? Life.


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[Assistant] Contrast with our desire to bring war to conclusion as quickly as possible. Marines need to understand this distinction.


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[Assistant] Advantages is relative to a competitor when one actor is able to do something better than its rival or rivals. Check. We get that.


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[Assistant] Terminal Lance, that's what, that's what we should be using Terminal Lance. That guy's legit. Uh, Terminal Lance is a, he's a cartoon. And he's oh, he's actually a whole book too. Terminal Lance, props.


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[Assistant] Nations also have relative competitive advantages, also referred to as comparative advantages. Historically, the innovative culture in the United States helped bring it new goods and services to the international marketplace faster than others.


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[Assistant] The cost of labor in some countries is lower than others, which makes them more attractive for labor intensive manufacturing businesses. It follows then that we must understand our potential rivals if we are to develop and maintain a competitive advantage against them.


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[Assistant] This is something that we're doing all the time at Origin. Right? Where there's, we're competing against


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[Assistant] Nations that make the same basic product that we make, but they're doing it with slave labor or they're doing it with someone that's getting paid, you know, in, in horrible working conditions.


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[Assistant] And not only are we competitive, we're better, because our product ends up better. And because we're here, now, now you get into shipping. And what does it cost to ship things from overseas?


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[Assistant] So we're, we're, we're figuring out and we have figured out how we have a competitive advantage. Even though we take care of our workers, which we actually also feel is a competitive advantage. Taking care of your people is a competitive advantage.


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[Assistant] Cause now your people care about the product that they're making. They want to do a good job. Not, not slaving in a sweat shop.


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[Assistant] Instead of looking, instead of looking at slave labor as an advantage, I look at it as a disadvantage.


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[Assistant] We've got the advantage because we have a better workforce who, who care about the company.


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[Assistant] The United States has many competitive advantages in international competition, the world's largest economy.


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[Assistant] And this is what you need to do. So how does this tie into everybody? What about your business?


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[Assistant] What about your business? How, how do you have the culture and do you have the values inside your business that are actually competitive advantages?


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[Assistant] Since World War II, the United States made the use of several military advantages such as a joint force's ability to project and sustain power globally, its skill at operating across domains, and its expertise and precision.


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[Assistant] Is that we have military professionals. That's what they do. And it's also an advantage, as far as I'm concerned, that we have reservists that come and serve in Iraq.


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[Assistant] Talking about that, I think it was the Guadalcanal recent podcast.


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[Assistant] We're talking about how some of the reservists were the people that said, Hey, that's a dumb idea. We don't want to do that.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and, and that's something I've been hitting on a lot. The fact that culture is the ultimate form of decentralized command. Culture is the ultimate form of decentralized command where now we have


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[Assistant] A cashier that knows how to treat a client and knows how to treat a customer because understands the culture of the company. Now we have a marine that can be out in town.


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[Assistant] That soldier, that marine, that cashier, that frontline salesperson, they know what decision to make just based on the culture that you have inside the organization. Totally.


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[Assistant] If you are in a situation like that and you're employing...


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[Assistant] Frontline troops to carry out these sort of tactical day to day things. It's pretty easy to end up in the, in the job market, the people that you're hiring, the human capital that you have available to you,


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[Assistant] At your company because I don't treat a client right? Whatever, right? So what do you do then? And what you have to do is you have to, you have to then


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[Assistant] That they need to have some kind of a path that they're going on. That hey, listen, listen.