[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Personal, like, the good feeling when I get done training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And especially when I kinda go to war, like when I'm having wars on the mat, it feels good, get done, like you just know you pushed, you, you got tapped, you tapped, whatever, it doesn't matter, but you, you, you struggled you into war, in, in, in that arena, which is fun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They get caught up in like, oh, I'm in this job, I'm in this corporation, and I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna make it to the next level, make it to the next level. Okay, that's cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As long as that ROI is real. As long as you're like, oh, if you're like, hey, I'm just doing this because the pay's great and I can take care of my family and I'm gonna get promoted and get more money. Okay, cool. Cool, work hard and that all works out. If you're thinking, oh, I wanna-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As long as you're telling yourself the truth. If you're lying to yourself, that's when it becomes problematic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's one thing that's so cool about Ashland Front is I work with so many different people, like there's people that do, you can name it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they're totally into it man and it's awesome. Like I want, I love to work with people that whatever they're doing, whether they're digging ditches, but they're doing it safely and they're doing, you know, doing huge contracts and it's awesome. They're running big companies and it's cool. They love doing that stuff or they're, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That if you're listening, you can do an honest assessment of yourself and make sure that that game that you're in is the right game for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you're doing something that you don't really care about my clients, if you don't care about the people that you're serving or you're providing service from, that's not a good indicator. If you're working with people you don't really like or you don't really want to take care of, that's not a good indicator. So be honest with yourself and make sure that the game that you're in from a work perspective is the right game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a lot more common problem than I'm into a, you know, jujitsu as an example, but any hobby that you're into.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like you invest a bunch of money into archery.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You wouldn't invest a bunch of money unless it was, unless you liked it, unless the ROI was good. So the hobbies are a little bit easier to just, I'm not gonna do that. Actually the hobbies are the opposite, where you should be doing it, but you're not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, you know, you, you, you know you should be training jiu-jitsu, you know you should be lifting weights, you know you should be running, or doing whatever thing it is, cause you know it makes you feel good, but you say, ah, you know, uuuh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's what you should focus. That's why measuring the investment and measuring the return on investment of what you do in the game, whatever game it is, that's why I'm trying to get you to pay attention to them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Next one, Carter Royce. I guess Carter Hoyce, maybe if he's from Brazil.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone on a team has a different overall life game slash goal. How do you work to align these different perspectives into one that benefits the overall team? And this is work, relationships, community. Here's the, here's the cool thing about this. Living well, doing good and helping each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Generally speaking helps ourselves as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It generally, so when you're talking about interacting with other people, whether it's at work, whether it's in your family, whether it's in your community, if you help other people, it's gonna help you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if everyone recognizes that, then we're all aligned. So if, if I help Echo, if, if you and I work together,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you work hard and so you provide a good service to our clients.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I benefit. You benefit, I benefit, and we both know that. At Ashlawn Front. Okay, so take Ashlawn Front. We got a bunch of instructors there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So guess what? JP makes more money. Ashlon Front makes more money. The client gets taken care of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, your, your kid is, you, you take, you, you get your kid to study, you know, you talk, you explain to them the why, they study hard, they get better grades, they get better grades.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's beneficial, not just for you. You'd be like, hey, Mike, it's a straight A student, right? You get to brag, cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They get into a better school, they get a better job. All that stuff happens. The family's doing better because now I don't have to rely, my kid's not relying on me for that, for that, you know, kicking down some, some money because they don't have a good job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're part of a team, because he's talking about an individual team, whether that team is a family, a company, if we, you know, at my family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I say, hey listen, we gotta do a better job with not spending so much money. We're wasting money on this. We're wasting money on that. People are going buying a cup of coffee that costs three dollars. It's hurting us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We need to tighten it up. So when I say that to the whole family, the whole family realize, oh, I need to spend less money. Guess what? We end up with more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Financial security, because we're not wasting a bunch of money, and that means we can...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, get that new roof that we need cause our roof is leaking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when you're all working together, it's very rare that something that helps the individual doesn't help the team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because then why are you part of, why is there a team?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, if, if Echo, if you and I are part of the same company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you and I are supposed to make widgets, and you make ten a day, and I only make five a day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fact that you made more than me is actually good for you, cause you're gonna get your bonus, but it's also good for me. I don't wanna like, undermine you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because then all of a sudden we're not getting as many of our widgets made and now we don't have as many to sell and now some other place can come in and get a market share from us and that's a problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you, when you climb the ladder of alignment, which I talk about a lot at Echelon Front,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You and I might be competing to make widgets, right? You and I are getting a bonus based on how many we make, and whoever makes more gets a better bonus. We're competing. But as soon as we go up one level, up the ladder of alignment,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey, I don't want to actually like, steal some of your parts for your widgets so you can't make as many, or so your widgets don't meet the quality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. And now someone out in the marketplace buys it and it doesn't work right and now they complain, they put it on Yelp and now our sales go down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even though we're competing against each other, if you go up one level, we're actually working together. Because if we provide good widgets, and we make a lot of them, there'll be more to sell, we can lower the price a little bit, which means we can sell even more, we can drive some other people out of the market. Like that's what's happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, climb the ladder of alignment a little bit, go to a higher place where it's like, oh, we are on the same team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because people mistake agendas for alignment. They mistake the fact that you and I are competing


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let me ask you this Jaco, if, you know, someone buys one of the parts that Echo made, one of the widgets that Echo made, it doesn't work, what's that gonna do to our reputation?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now they're gonna want, not gonna want to buy the ones that you made either. Ugh. Now we're not selling as many of these things. Ugh. Now in order to cover our margin we gotta raise our prices. Ugh. Now that we've raised our prices the competitor comes in and is looking even better with an even lower price. Ugh. We're getting driven. See what I'm saying? All you have to do is pull the thread on it and you realize that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Occasionally, it's so rare, and usually this is what I say, it's so rare that people are actually not aligned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once you go high enough. Look, we can be aligned. Even in a seal platoon, it's like you have Seth in Delta platoon and Leif in Charlie platoon. They're competitive against each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if I say, hey guys, who's got a mission that more requires these sites? And Leif's like, well you know, Seth's doing this, these patrols over in this area that's further ranges, he could probably use them. Oh, okay. As soon as you go up a level,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Echo actually wants to start his own widget business. So he's doing things that legitimately are not aligned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No one raises their hand. So there, all of a sudden, everyone's aligned. Everybody wants to make money, everybody wants to take care of their team, and everyone wants to take care of the customers. Everyone's aligned. No one goes like, well I'd actually like to screw over the customers. Or like, hey I actually want my team to be in a bad position. Or I want the company to lose money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What do we want to do? Kill bad guys, keep our guys safe, and win the war. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who here wants to get their guys killed? No one. Who here doesn't want to kill the bad guys? No one. Who here wants us to lose? No one. So we're aligned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You might be thinking we should attack from this direction, I'm thinking we should attack from a different direction, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of us is right, one of us is wrong. It's not that we disagree on what we're trying to achieve. So we're aligned, we just have different ideas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alignment revealed. So there you go. Uhm, there you go, Carter. Hope that helps. Next one, easy money dude. Hell yea. Check. How do you identify what games are worth playing or games to avoid? Again, this is, this is a study in return on investment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's not just return, it's return on investment. So it's what are you going to have to put into this thing? And what can we possibly get out of it? And what are the risks involved? And then you just have to be honest with yourself. Just be honest with yourself. You're looking at some game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there's like a, you know, rotary club or whatever. Wanna get involved in that thing. Wanna get involved in some volunteer organization, whatever it is. What do you have to put into it? What's the return gonna be? And what are the risks involved? And be honest with yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go. Perfect example. He had to look at it. He's got this game. He knows what the investment is. It's his time. It's his effort. And he's putting everything into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's already achieved, he's gotten what he, what the return that he's gotten. He's like, you know what? I got enough money. I got enough fame. I got enough credit. You know, street cred from who gives street cred? Comedians' cred or something? I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've watched, I've watched probably, I've watched some of them, probably like 20 of them or something like that. But if there's nine seasons, I'm really not even scratching the surface. But that's a great example. He looked at it, measured the ROI, and said, okay, cool, I'm done. And there you go. Good, good, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good metaphor there. Next one is from That Jake Denim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Denham something like that. How did you learn about real estate investing? A guy told me a guy a sky in the seal teams That I work for was like, yeah, you know, I bought I bought houses and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that, but that's basically what he said to me. He probably said something like, you know, I bought this house eight years ago. He's older than me. I bought this house eight years ago for 150 grand. It's worth like 400 grand now. And I must have been like, hm, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Started buying houses. You know, one at a time. Buy a house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As soon as I had that house was kind of settled in and then bought another one and just tried to hold on to them. And that's what I did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's how I learned about real estate investing. I took some really simplistic phrases from a dude that was telling me what was up and just saw the game. I saw the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's bring it back to this, right? I saw that this guy had bought a house for a hundred grand and that was worth three hundred grand in like a seven year period. But more, that seemed cool, more important, I realized that someone else was paying for that house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I realized where I was on the board. On the game board, right? I was paying rent, bro.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was paying for someone else's house. How would you feel if you're like at a bar and like you're sitting there drinking your beer?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I thought that was what was happening. You gave me the bill, I signed it. I didn't know this guy was over here with bottle service. You know, I'm paying for his bottle service. That's what you're doing, you're buying someone a house when you're paying rent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You need to understand what's happening, but if you know you're gonna be somewhere for a longer period of time, yeah, and you can afford to buy a house, go buy a house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I realized that. That's what realized, that's what made me realize it's one of the earlier games that I checked into. Uhm, another question from him is, how to know when you're playing the wrong game and it's time to quit. Or switch games. Okay. ROI, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, measure the ROI. What are you getting out of this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're gonna get a lot out of it, but it's a lot of effort, okay, well, is it worth the effort? Is it worth the investment? Time? Money? Leadership capital? Whatever the thing is. Family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're in the game. He's saying you're playing the wrong game. So now what we have to do is we have to do an honest assessment of our...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know how now in the UFC, when you watch the UFC, they have the odds? They show the odds after each round.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so now that's a new thing. I don't know how new it is, but it's a few years old, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, oh, Echo really did great in that last round against Jaco. His odds of winning now just went up. Oh, Jaco just came back and had a great round and plus Echo was like stunned at the end of the round. It looked like he was gonna get knocked out. He got saved by the bell. Oh, Jaco's odds just went up for the last round a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to do an assessment and see where you're at, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And see what is your trajectory of what's happening. It's kind of like what you said you did with your jujitsu career. You're like, okay, I'm 30, whatever, you're 34 years old. I'm the seventh best guy in my gym, which is not bad, but let's face it, we're one gym. Okay, and I'm making progress, but so is everybody else. Okay, where, where am I? Where am I going with this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Same thing with a job, you know? Okay, I've been at the same job, I've been in this position for four years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I haven't been promoted in the last three years. I don't have a good relationship with my boss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's a freaking great wrestler, he's jiu-jitsu solid, he's a great athlete, he's a good boxer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he had, like he had real legit potential in MMA. Cause he's a great wrestler, tough as nails, strong for, I mean he's freaking 50, 155 pounder, he's strong as hell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Greg Train actually asked me, and this was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably 15 or 20 years ago. This is a long time ago. This is probably 20 years ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was like, what do you think I should do? Should I?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just dedicate my whole life right now to MMA.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or should I keep training but also he wanted to get a degree, he wanted to become an x-ray technician, that's what he is, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said no. I said no one can train 16 hours a day. How many, if you really train hard, how many hours a day can you train? Including recovery, like the whole nine yards. He's like, I don't know, maybe four or five, right? That's like training, conditioning, recovery. Maybe you do six, maybe you do six.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, you're gonna work 8 hours a day, you sleep 8 hours a day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's 16 hours, right? You got plenty of time to train and you can still have a backup to MMA in case you go to wrestling practice tomorrow and blow your knee out, which can happen on any given day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so he played both games, you know, and, and he, he, you know, he had a good run at MMA. He also ran into some problems that were tough to deal with. And so he mitigated the risk, played more than one game at the same time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when the MMA thing dried up, guess what? He still had a cool career, making good money, beautiful family, taking care of them, house like the whole nine yards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's a situation where he didn't necessarily quit the other game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got it in one of these questions for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look, you made some friends, you had moved up the chain where you were now like the shift lead or something like that. Which probably took you six months or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where they go, dude, do I really walk away from this right now?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's where people have to, that's where the sunk cost makes people stick with the same crappy job that they don't like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For a long period of time, which I recommend definitely watching out for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel so like comfortable sleeping in theaters. Have you? When my kids were little, we'd go to see like one of those kids movies. Oh yea, yea. And look, there's some really good kids movies, but a lot of times they just, they're just not good. But I would just, uh, Incredibles. Yea, that's good. The Incredibles. I like Moana.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes sir. So again, this boils back to we have to pay attention to risk, investment, and return on investment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we have to do an honest assessment. If you're in the game, you gotta check your trajectory, honestly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's when you realized you were, uh, stationary. You were running on a treadmill that wasn't getting you anywhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you ever think about opening your own club? And then what happened with that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're going to be playing two different, wildly different games. That's if the Venn diagram doesn't overlap very much, like we'll see each other for, actually we won't even see each other at night because she comes home, you're at the club, she, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you, you measured the trajectory, the ROI, the possibilities, and you saw that it wasn't good. Yeah. Good job Echo Charles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you want to detach and you want to assess what's happening, take a step back right down what's happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The pros and cons. That's why pros and cons lists are good. It's not good because you don't know it. It's good because it makes you look at it from a detached perspective. You get to see.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my gosh, the bad really outweighs the good. Okay. Cool. Cause you were able to take a step back. So writing things down when you come up to a decision point, Hey, wait a second. Let me just, let me just go over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What are the outcomes that I could get from making this decision? How is this gonna go?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Try and answer those questions without letting your emotions get involved. Again, not, not void of emotions. Put the emotions in the calculus.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I see. Like it's kind of cool when I look back at my career in the military.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't say, you know, from a leadership perspective, here's this horrible thing that I did, and it didn't work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Usually I'm like, hey, here's what I did, and this is why I did it, and it still makes sense. And that goes back to when I was 30 years old. Now there's things where I go, ah, you know what, could have done that better, but I can see that the trajectory of the way I was thinking was just not fully formulated yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or I hadn't evolved that thought pattern yet, but it was going in the right direction. So I think if my 30 year old self would go, oh yeah, I can see where that, where you got that from.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what's funny is when you and I were training, I was talking about leadership, just not to you. Like I mean, I was already, you know, that's, that's what I was doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, and like the principles that we talk about, like when you're talking about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well yea, well that's true I think with everybody and if you, like my 25 year old self was definitely wild. Like, was a little bit out of control and was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, kind of a maniac and I remember, I remember when we were on with uh, with uh, Jim Conkle and Charlie Plum and they were like talking, these guys were like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just s- I don't want to use the word saintly, but kind of saintly like heroic dudes. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they were kind of like throwing me in, you know, with this sort of, uh, elevated kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you explain something and then you explain it again and you see, oh, that was a little bit better. So you get better at explaining stuff over time, especially going from explaining stuff to guys in the teams where you're just using pure


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Military examples, and then as I work with more and more companies, like oh, here's another civilian example, here's another business example, here's a family example. And you start to be able to, be able to tap into these other, uh, ways of explaining things that are, that are easier for some people to understand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Using the term game, and there's gonna be, let's see where that ends up. And one thing that's interesting about this is that idea of finite versus infinite games is actually from a guy named James Kars, who's an American philosopher, academic guy from NYU, and he wrote a book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In 1987, that's called Finite and Infinite, Infinite Games. Uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, it's not that they match or they contradict, so to give you the definition here, a finite game is like any game that has


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Parameters around it. So I always say chess like chess. You have 64 squares. You got 16 pieces per side They can only the pieces can only move in certain directions, right? That's a finite game basketball


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, there's a court, there's a ball, there's a number of steps you can take when you're not dribbling, there's a height of the basket, there's a number of points that you get for a shot when you make it depending where you are. So all those things are...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those are finite games. And what, one of the reasons like, uh, that I originally thought of this


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Myself, I'm not trying to say I thought of the idea, was, uh, chess. I heard, I think Lex Friedman, maybe it was Lex, but someone talking about the fact that, that a computer can win in chess because it's a finite game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's a number of moves and if you can, you can get that thing to run out the eventualities of each move and come to the best move and it can beat a human.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Infinite games that have no rules, they're, a computer might not be able to win because it's not going to be able to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do something that's totally unexpected. It's not gonna have the creativity that's needed. Now look, we got AI coming in chat, GPT and all this stuff. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's gonna, but it's gonna take some sort of really revolutionary technology for a machine to be a human in an infinite game. An infinite game is like life, right? There's no rules. You can move. Total war.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Total war. This is a war where you're like, this is for our survival, which means we're gonna do whatever it takes to survive. There's no rules. For as long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, that's sort of an infinite game, because if you grab a bottle, you can smash it on the dude's head and cut his throat. Open. Uh, if you get a chance to slam them, their face down, if you have a weapon, like, it's sort of just, hey, whatever you got, you can bring it into the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so you could have a computer that's like, oh I'm gonna, I will, the first move I would do would be a throat punch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then cool, I put two bullets inside cause I was carrying a gun, like I win. Infinite game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Finite games, and here's the thing, finite games are generally the smaller games and infinite games are the bigger ones. So what you want to win, what you want to win at is the infinite game. And by the way, this, for me,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Life is an infinite game, obviously you can go anywhere, but more important to me is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's degrees in between finite and infinite, right? That is that most games, most games have some level of rules. And where those rules are, you can have, some games are very strict.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some games are very, very, very loose. There's very limited rules. Uh, business has rules. Business has laws.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you can actually go and you can change and you can disrupt, like that's the big thing, right? When I disrupt the industry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's because you were playing a finite game making your widget and all of a sudden I realized that I could make my widget that does something radically different to yours and what yours does and all of a sudden you're out of, you're out of business man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when you can recognize that, when you can recognize what the rules are,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Same thing with like families, like there's a wide, there's a wide variety of ways people live as families, right? Just take a city versus, hey this family lives in a city, this family lives on a farm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This family lives in a van and surfs up and down the California coast. They don't have jobs, they have...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever, they sell bracelets on the seawall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the real thing. There's families that that's what they do. They surf, and they sell bracelets on the seawall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? That's a, that's re- Now, the other person that's playing the game is like making a bunch of money working at a hedge fund trying to afford a place in Malibu so the family can surf. He can only surf every once in a while.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who won the game? I don't know, dude. No, this guy, he doesn't just surf at Malibu, there's other dudes in a van. He's going, he's going to Rincon, he's going up to Santa Cruz, he's coming back down to Dago, he's all over the place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he's getting an opportunity to serve, he's kind of at Malibu because that's where he invested all of his money into a house there. So, who won that game?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's infinite games, and yes, there's, uh, finite games. I think the important thing is to make sure you understand what the rules are. And, if possible, figure out if there's a way that you can disrupt those rules, overcome those rules, break those rules for lack of a better word. No, look, if there's a legal rule that you're gonna get arrested for, you're gonna lose the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's not what I'm talking about. But if you can figure out a way to revolutionize


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The way something is being done, like you know, you always hear that story about the freaking guy that figured out a better way to do the high jump. Right? Fosbury. Fosbury flop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? He didn't, he didn't, he changed, he viewed the sport and figured out a way to do that. That's within the rule, the technical rules, but it's way outside the, the physical standards of the way the game was played. Totally different. That's a good example.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is there a bigger game you can play? Yea, you can open your own bar. Okay, well that's kinda cool. Now you're not worried about the hierarchy of the bouncers, now you're in a the next level game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then the next level game is your new franchises. Well now you got a bunch of these. You see what I'm saying? So, I'm always looking, and you should always look for, if that's what you want, is there a bigger game that you can play?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And don't get stuck in a game that you could possibly be losing where you could just be playing a bigger game. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, if you're trying, you know, you're trying to be the best restaurant in, the best cook in your restaurant, why not just open your own restaurant? Try to be the best electrician so you can get promoted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And manage a crew, well, why not just start your own company? That being said, what if you are an electrician, but what you really want to do is focus on your family?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool, then you stay working at a bigger company because no one call, you know what, you know who they call when something goes wrong and you own a business? They call you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's your business. I own a lot of businesses, man. The calls come in 24-7. The calls come in 24-7.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I realized that when we opened Victory MMA and Fitness. I was like, oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's something wrong at the ju- oh, instructor didn't co- show up. Cool. I'm on my way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think, so my point is, I don't think it matches or contradicts, uh, what James Kars said about finite and infinite, and what Simon Sinek, he talks about it as well, Simon Sinek does, he talks about the finite and infinite game concept.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What we're saying doesn't match or contradict, it's just part of it. It's just part of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, next question. This is also from LevikMix. How do you with intention periodically check your progress within the game you're playing? Look, you gotta detach, you gotta take a step back, you gotta track what's happening. You gotta write down your goals and see where you're at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In order to do that, you better schedule it because time slips by and next thing you know, you look up and you've been in the same game for nine years and you realize you haven't been making progress. So you need to schedule those reviews periodically. Once every quarter, where am I at?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the military they, in a military they have a position called future operations, which is someone that focuses on the future.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to put someone there because if you don't put someone focusing on the future, then everyone just focus on what's going on right now. So pay attention to that. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The same thing that we have to do with our lives. You have to become, you have to, you have to set aside time and make yourself the reviewing officer of your progress. Otherwise you'll look up in four years and you'll realize you haven't moved and you hadn't made progress.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do you know which games are important ones and which ones you can ignore? Again, real quick. You gotta- okay. You've gotta understand what you value. This is important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause we talked about return on investment, we talked about what you need to put in, we talked about what you're gonna get out. You actually have to be honest with yourself about what you value.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you should probably write down what you value, because if you value money, or you value property, or you value family, or you value friends, or you value free time, or you value surf trips to, to Baja, and that's what you value, you better write that down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because otherwise, you might be playing a game where what you're getting rewarded with isn't something that you value. Hey, we're gonna give you a promotion and a new title. I don't give a shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Hey, we're going to give you a new freaking BMW company car. I don't care. I want a BMW company car. I want a surf. Or I want to do jujitsu. So make sure you know, so if you want to know which games are important ones and which ones you should ignore, you need to figure out what you value.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then run the ROI and the risk to see if you're getting what you value from this game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Next question. He says I stopped lying to myself about my past, my regrets and my failures. What then?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do I need to try to make up for lost time or is it just about mindset going forward? Uh, well, we all should try and make up for lost time. Problem is we can't. It's already gone. It's already gone. The lost time is gone. It doesn't matter. So no, we're not going to focus on that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We are gonna go forward doing as much as we possibly can.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you focus on the past and you focus on the lost time and you focus on the regrets, you're wasting time and energy on


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things that don't help you and don't move you forward. So, we're not doing that. Good thing, you stopped lying to yourself, good job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know you made some mistakes, you made some adjustments, move forward. That's what we're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is the best way to set metrics for winning the game and how important would that be?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Games are about winning. What is the best way to set metrics for winning the game? And how important would that be? Well, look.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The biggest problem here that we're talking about is that people don't know that there's a game being played. Once you recognize that there's a game being played, then yea, you gotta define what winning is gonna look like. And you do that by detaching and looking at it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And again, going back to understanding what you actually value, and once you know what you value, and once you see


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What winning looks like, then you write down the objectives of what that winning is and then you figure out what the strategy and tactics are to achieve those objectives and, and victory.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just like Land Navigation, one of the earlier podcasts we did, you have to know where you're going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to know where you're going. If you don't know where you're going, you got issues. And then you gotta track your progress and see where you are, and then see where you are in relation to where you're trying to get to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to set the metrics because for echo winning might be


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For me, winning might be making a ton of money. So we're doing two different things. So you have to figure out what winning is. In order to figure that out, you have to know what you value.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, this is from Zach Hedley, possible to address being taken advantage of by those who know the game better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 100%. That's why we're talking about this. Cause there's nothing worse than being in a game


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With someone that knows the game and you don't. Or they know the game better than you. Or you don't recognize that you're in a game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was, you know, discussions and debates about what we were doing and the types of mission we were doing and there was one particular senior officer and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I told Stoner and Leif, I said, hey, do not get into a debate with this guy about our deployment. And they were like, why not? And I was like, cause he'll beat you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He'll beat you in a debate, he'll beat me. Like, I'm not gonna debate this stuff with him. He, he does what he does. He's one of those people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That goes around and would you step into the arena with someone that debates all the time?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're getting in the ring with him, it's not, you know, like they're not, it doesn't end well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unless you go, okay, you know, I'm gonna take some hits here, but I'm gonna learn. That's okay. As long as you recognize that. And you don't get taken advantage of the point where you get left, you know, left for dead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well no, if you, if you need a little downtime and the TV show helps you relax, cool, go ahead. Watch your freaking show.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that's not a game, right? That's a break. And it's a strategic, it's a tactical break that's actually going to give you, you know, allow you to refresh your mindset and be ready for work and blah blah blah. Now look, if you're watching freaking, uh, Netflix six hours a day, you got issues.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you should be thinking all the time. This is very, this is a really good question. Of course, we address this question a lot. Think about the games that you're playing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of your games that you're playing should help your long-term strategic goals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it, and look, if you got time and you happen to love freakin' backgammon,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you get some satisfaction by playing backgammon? And you want to go play that literal game?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you do it, you know, once in, uh, two hours on Sundays with your little friends. Cool. That's nothing wrong with that. That's cool. Have fun with that. That's fine. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about your doing things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're going out Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. Going out looking for a girl. Going out looking for a dude. Right? And that's what you're doing. Thursday, Friday, you're drinking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you're in that game. You're wasting money. You're hurting your health.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And by the way, if you think you're gonna meet the love of your life, there's better ways.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You've been doing this Thursday, Friday, Saturday night, drinking, spending money. A year. Two years, two years you're looking around going, hold on a second here. Three years you're like, wait a second. I haven't made any progress.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then it's time to may, assess what the hell you're doing. So, those tactical games that you're playing, they've gotta support your long term strategic goals. That's it. A long game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Although you feel bad with your kids not- with your kids playing video games, I think my kids don't play video games. Yeah. Cause they don't have the thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's weird man, jujitsu is connected. Yea. Like it's, you're like connected.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're smashing someone. And they're smashing you. It's a radical thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Check. Alright, so yes, long game, all the time. Uh, Caleb Smith 547. How do I, how, how do, how do you know? How do I know when it's time to quit the game? What are the symptoms of a game played that will ultimately lead to the inevitable loss of time money? Uh, goes back to what we were talking about, ROI.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be honest. Honest assessments. This is the sunk cost fallacy, right? This is exactly what you brought up earlier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so again, some of these questions are a little bit repetitive, but I want to add some items to them. This one here, if you want to know when it's time to quit the game and what are the symptoms,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It can be good in some scenarios to set up triggers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is the example of this is like, you know, when guys are climbing a mountain like Mount Everest or whatever and they say, Hey, if we haven't gotten to this point by 10 o'clock in the morning, we're turning around and going back. There's no, we're not debating it. There's no, there's no emotion around it. 10 o'clock. If we're not here, we're turning around. We're going back down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can do that with the game that you're gonna get involved in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna, at least if I'm not making this kind of return on investment, like hey, I'm gonna start driving, you know, Uber at night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that way I can get some more money, you know, for my down payment on my house. Well, then you realize that your ROI...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Driving around your Uber is not as much as you thought it was gonna be. Hey, I'm not even meeting the minimums. This isn't working, I'm not gonna do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, figure out what the minimum required return is. Figure out how much time you're going to invest and put a cap on that. Figure out how much money you're going to invest and put a cap on that. And then you, and then you have the actions and places you're going to take.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when that happens, that event gets triggered. Hey, I'm going to, you know, invest in, uh, trying to start up this little company. If I haven't, you know, if I don't have 20 clients by the first three months, obviously there's not a market for it and I'm going to stop. Okay, cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you stick with, look, if you get to 19, you're like, well, I'm close. Okay, cool. You know, you can, you can make a little adjustment. But if you're at 13, and it's been three months, and you thought you were going to have 20,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you've made a bunch of adjustments trying to figure out the market and you're not there. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You need to walk away. So that would be, uh, the thing to set up so that you recognize the symptoms prior to, cause otherwise, if you don't have triggers in place,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's how you end up at the top of Everest, you're out of oxygen and it's freakin' dark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're gonna die. That's how you end up without any money left in your bank account and you don't have a successful business and now you gotta sell your house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is how it happens. You don't put triggers in place and it causes problems.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't have the ability to leave? Okay, we'll figure out an exit strategy. You can leave a game!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, you can figure out, okay, this job, I've been here forever, they pay me good money, but it's absolutely awful, I'm never getting promoted and I don't want to do it anymore. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can't leave tomorrow, you can't leave next week, you can't leave in a month, but you can over time, a year, two years, three years, figure out an exit strategy and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Make a move. We're not doing brash moves, right? We're not making emotional decisions. We're gonna take our time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How to get out of this game and then also take our time figuring out what game to play next. To do a class on, uh, knitting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're like, dude, this is awesome. I love the way this feels to make the scarf and like I want to do sweaters and okay, we'll go do some more of that. Maybe you're gonna end up selling sweaters on Etsy. Sure. Cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or you take a knitting class, you're like, this is monotonous and I hate it. Okay, cool. Well, let's take some time to figure out the new game, little iterative decisions, and also multiple reconnaissance probes. There's so many opportunities out there in the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's so many of them. And not all of them are good opportunities, by the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some of them might seem cool, but they're a lot harder than they look like. Some of them are...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Harder than they look like but they're not that bad and you can make some good money and you can be gratified by doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So do multiple reconnaissance. Like, oh, you like knitting? Cool, try a little bit of knitting. You also like making candles? Cool, make some candles. You also like pouring concrete? Okay, let's see what's going on with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe on the weekends you start pouring a little concrete, doing some little projects for people for real cheap and you just realize you're good at it. Maybe you realize you suck at it, which is also possible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe you can talk about the thought process you go through in order to turn something hard into a game. Yeah, when I'm doing something really hard, I'm gonna find some little achievable goals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That mindset of like, I'm literally going to have fun with this thing that sucks goes a long way. So I don't have, uh, that's my process. Like, oh yeah, this sucks. You know, another thing is this sucks and I'm never going to let anybody know that I think it sucks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's do one more. And then we're gonna, we'll go and do another one. Uhm, cause I got a bunch more of these things to cover. But let's do one more. This is kind of a, a little bit of a chunky one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When solid, honorable, hardworking men refuse to play the game because, quote, there shouldn't be a game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The dichotomy and dogma around progression as tenure


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Versus progression through experience. This is a little bit tricky of a question to understand, but I'm going to do my best with it. And he says, context, some of the most knowledgeable, talented, and experienced people I've worked with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Were both years and decades younger in tenure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] However, they spent so much time consistently exposing themselves to challenging problems, they progressed well beyond the 99 percentile, anyone their age.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's the, that's the dogma around progression as tenure versus progression through experience. So it's time versus, it's really about effort because experience is sort of wrapped around time. So to answer that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People that engage and train and practice and challenge themselves will get better than people that don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The dogma around that. And I think what he's trying to ask is like, the negative.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What the negative impression of people that...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The reason that that sometimes hurts people that are, like, let's say Echo checked on board, he hasn't been here for very long, but he's really kind of kicking ass,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yet, I kinda hold it against him. Why is that? There's a decent chance that Echo- Echo has the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's exposing himself, he's training hard, he's putting himself in challenging positions, so he's learning a lot, he's doing really well. But Echo doesn't have the maturity and tact to remain humble.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you end up creating an antagonistic relationship with me because I'm looking at you like, oh he's just one of these people that's tried so hard and I'm gonna look for every little opportunity to hurt your progress.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, if you want to overcome the way that works, or you want to help someone, you know, you get some new guy on your team that checks in, that is really doing a good job but is rubbing people the wrong way,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just talk to him about staying humble and talk to him about the importance of building good relationships and that will be helpful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hope that answers the first question. Again, these are a little bit, uh, a little bit, I didn't quite fully understand them. The second question is an observation more than a question, but it's interesting how many miss the opportunity of chasing forward looking asymmetrical opportunities, opportunities with limited risk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Potential huge upsides and a relative solid likelihood of success. Why is that? So why do people miss opportunities that have low risk?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think there's a couple reasons. Number one is failure to recognize. Like, they just don't see them. And because they don't detach. And so, the opportunity's right in front of them, they don't see it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, that's the old experiment where the freaking gorilla goes walking through the people that are throwing the basketball and like no one sees it. Cause they're in, they're watching the count in the numbers and they don't see this obvious thing. So there's a failure to recognize cause people don't detach enough. And then on top of that, sometimes they see the opportunity, but they don't want even a limited risk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, there you go Santos. I hope I was able to kinda...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get those for you. And uh, with that, it's a game for this time. I guess we're gonna have to do one more podcast about the game. The game, the games. Here we are. In the meantime, if you wanna play the health game, the fitness game, the being better game, the stronger, faster, better game. Better get in the Jocko Fuel game. JockoFuel.com. We got Molk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is, we got ready to drink MOLK right now, which is FIRE.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Slaps. Big time. Oh, it slaps big time. You open your fridge, maybe you could, you know, have a piece of steak, maybe you could have some, uh, mozzarella. Sure. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna put myself on report for being lazy. Yes sir. But there's like, you know, you're cutting basil, leaves, whatever. Sure. You're getting the oil out, you're making a plate out. That mulch is just sitting there ready. Yeah. 30 grams of protein. Ready to go down the hatch. Tasty, tastes better than mozzarella.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, this is a given. So, we got the ready-to-drink mulk, we got the powder mulk, we got joint warfare, super krill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cold war. Got it all. And we got the Hennergy drinks. Yeaah. We got the Hennergy drinks. So, but these aren't the normal Hennergy drinks that make you sick and make you diabetic and are poison. No. These are not those.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bro, this is a good point. The, you, when you go into a store, when you go into a vitamin shop, well, vitamin shop, they're there, and it's pretty easy to find. But when you go into like a military commissary, you go into Hannaford, you go into HEB, or Murphy's, or, or Meyer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In some of these stores, they're in like the health and wellness section. They're not in the energy drink section. So just be advised.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we also have a health and wellness things that make you better. And we know where this belongs. So they're kinda right. They're right, either way they're right. But it would be nice if they could give the consumer the visibility on like, oh I have a healthy option that I can go to here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not made by slaves. There's actual slavery in the world right now. It's happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, it's a hundred percent true. Damn. It's a hundred percent true. Uh, we don't want that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't want that. OriginUSA.com. End slavery. That's what we're doing. Get on board. Jeans, boots, hunt gear. Hunt gear, let's face it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you feel good when you nail it? Sure, yeaah. And you get the good feedback? Yeaah. Even from me when I go, yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a, there's censorship, there's control of the platforms, there's drama out there, we're not in the drama. Look, we're doing our job, but if somebody wants to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ban us. They could do it tomorrow. We don't control their platforms, but we control ours. JockoWonderground.com. If you want to go check that out, you can listen to this podcast, some other podcasts that we do on there. It costs $8.18 a month. If you can't afford it, it's okay. We still want you in the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Email assistance at JockoUnderground.com, we got a YouTube channel, Origin USA has a YouTube channel, we got Psychological Warfare, Flipside Canvas, got a bunch of books, you know what they are, Echelon Front, it's our leadership consultancy, and don't forget that we have online training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have online leadership training, online life training, Extreme Ownership Academy. Take ownership of your life. Go to extremeownership.com. I'm on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mondays, doing live Q&A. You want to ask me a question about your business, about your life, about Jiu Jitsu, about your, your boss, about your employee, about your husband, your wife. Come and ask me. extremewownership.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go, there's a bunch of courses to take as well. And also if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families, Gold Star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization, which is awesome. And if you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to americasmightywarriors.org. And don't forget about another .org, Heroes and Horses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Micah Fink up there and where is he right now? Oh, he's, he's horseback in the mountains in the wilderness with some veterans helping find their souls.


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[Assistant] So go to heroesandhorses.org if you want to help that out. We're on the interwebs. Echoes at Echo Charles.


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[Assistant] He's back on Twitter after he freakin' made a rookie mistake.


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[Assistant] This was a hard time for everybody. Yeah. Rookie mistake. Yeah. For a computer guy. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And you just got mentally distracted? It's a metaphor.


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[Assistant] But is that what happened? That was fatigue. You were tired? That was fatigue. Legit?


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[Assistant] Would you rather admit being tired or dumb?


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[Assistant] I don't know. Alright, well Echo Charles is back on Twitter. He feels like maybe he's lost some of his uh, clout in the social media world because he has 19 followers now.


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[Assistant] I met Jocko Willink. Hey, listen, when you go on there, just watch out for the algorithm. That's not a game that's gonna help you. That's not a game that's gonna help you. The algorithm game is gonna win. Don't let it.


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[Assistant] And uh, thanks to all the military members out there worldwide protecting our way of life. Thank you for your continued service and thanks also to our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics,


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[Assistant] EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all first responders, thank you for protecting us here at home. And to everyone else out there, remember there's a lot of games being played. You are playing them. So pick the right games to focus on. Don't waste time on games that don't matter.


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[Assistant] Play to win. Until next time, this is Echo and Jocko, out.


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[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 332 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo. Good evening. So when


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[Assistant] I first started this podcast when we first started this podcast. I was talking about different


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[Assistant] Situations, how I handle different situations, what I thought about various subjects, different viewpoints I had concerning leadership and really concerning human nature and almost immediately started getting feedback and started getting asked questions and people would say, hey up there,


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[Assistant] Or some other ancient or modern school of philosophy.


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[Assistant] I didn't do that. I mean, I left high school, joined the military. So there wasn't this big educational background for me. I'm not an academic of any kind. In fact, there was a funny, one of the earliest live events that I did.


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[Assistant] And it was a relatively cultured audience out there and someone asks, you know, Hey, who's your favorite? Who's your favorite philosopher? And I said, Lemmy.


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[Assistant] And no one laughed, like I laughed, but no one else laughed. And, and so I added, I said, you know, Lemmy from, from Motorhead. And a couple people sort of awkwardly laughed, but not much.


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[Assistant] Old philosophers and, and old thinkers.


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[Assistant] As it turns out, I agree with and I'm aligned with a lot of what they say. No doubt about it. I'm not trying to say anything negative about these ancient philosophers and the theories that they had. But,


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[Assistant] The fact of the matter is I just didn't study them. I mean, like I said, I was a shitty high school student. I didn't, I don't think I read any books in high school. So, yeaah, I didn't learn anything about these things.


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[Assistant] I just figured these things out through my own random trials and tribulations in life. And it was a similar situation with Jordan Peterson.


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[Assistant] When, when he came on the podcast for the first time, it was really obvious that


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[Assistant] We had come to many of the same conclusions in our views of life, but he got to those conclusions through, uh, rigorous academic study.


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[Assistant] And work as a clinical psychologist and I got there through my experiences in life and in the teams.


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[Assistant] And I've been very lucky in that regard.


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[Assistant] Very lucky to kind of stumble into things, been guided in certain situations, been shoved in some directions, made some good decisions along the way, made some bad decisions and been lucky enough to live through it and learn, learn from it. So I've been very, very lucky, but I also pay attention to these kind of things.


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[Assistant] A lot of times I was paying attention to these kind of things because I was trying to teach them. I originally started paying attention to leadership because I had to learn it in order to become a leader. So I was paying attention and I was watching what leaders were doing.


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[Assistant] And eventually I was paying attention to leadership because I was teaching it.


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[Assistant] And so I saw things and I stumbled into things and


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[Assistant] You know, one of the things I wrote about leadership strategy and tactics, I'm in my first platoon, we're clearing gas oil platforms, I do a big write-up about this in that book, but my platoon ends up on a skirmish line, we're all looking down our weapons, looking to engage targets, and no one's making a call. No one's making any kind of a decision. And I, as a new guy, I take a step back,


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[Assistant] Which means I broaden my field of view. I look around so I can see more and a nice calm comes over me and now I can see what we need to do and I make a call. And I started to teach that. I started to teach that to young leaders. Hey, you need to take a step back. You need to broaden your field of view. You need to look around. And it's going to calm you down and allow you to make a decision.


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[Assistant] You don't wanna do it, number one, cause everyone else is gonna now panic. And number two, cause everyone's gonna make fun of you when you get back from this operation. So, you don't wanna either one of these. So when you have to make a decision, you take a step back and then you take a breath.


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[Assistant] You detach, you broaden your field of view, and these things will calm you down and allow you to make better decisions.


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[Assistant] Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan by the way, uh, they've had a guy on a couple times named Andrew, Andrew Huberman. And this guy is a doctor, a neuroscientist, a professor.


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[Assistant] And as I was listening to what he was saying, a lot of the things that I have been teaching were aligned with what he was saying.


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[Assistant] Taking a breath is something that scientifically calms you down. Physiologically calms you down. Broadening your field of view physiologically calms you down. And guess what? I know this. The calmer you are, the better decisions you're gonna make.


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[Assistant] Then there were other things when I listened to him talk that I recognized from my own experiences. Cold water.


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[Assistant] It doesn't feel good when you get in it, but it feels good when you get done. Lift and weights, fasting, things that I had kind of instinctively or through trial and error figured out were now being reinforced by someone that


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[Assistant] Actually academically understood the science behind my instincts.


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[Assistant] I'm always looking to see, hey, if there's some things I'm doing right, why are they right? If there's things I'm doing wrong, why are they wrong? And always looking to increase the understanding that I have behind the things that I think I've figured out.


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[Assistant] What we think we know, what we think we think, and how we can get better at all of the above. Andrew, thanks for coming down man. It's good to meet you. Great to be here.


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[Assistant] Did that, uhm, when I was listening to you talk and I was hearing you talk about how you're, if you're focused on something small, it amps up your adrenaline. I was, I was listening, I was going, oh, it was all these things were coming together. All these dots were getting connected. It's kind of crazy, right?


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[Assistant] Young SEAL leaders and then, you know, other people in the world, in the business world, in the, in the first responder world, in the military at large. For 20 years, I've been saying, hey listen, when things start to go.


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[Assistant] Get wild. You need to get off your gun. You need to take a step back. You need to broaden your field of view. You need to look around to see what's happening. I've been telling people that for 20 years. Only because it just worked for me. And I luckily figured that out.


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[Assistant] In my very first seal platoon and, and it took me a while to, to where I said, Oh, that's something I need to tell other people to do. Like I figured it out and would do it. But then once I was in a position where I was teaching these things, so that's just like wild that there's all these physiological things that occur that for me was, I knew it. I knew that you better do this.


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[Assistant] Cause I mean imagine you want to talk about a field of view. Imagine what your field of view is like when you're staring down the barrel of your gun. It's tiny. Your field of view is so focused and you don't see anything.


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[Assistant] I mean, other than the target right in front of you, you don't see anything. And that's what happens to, when a young SEAL is in a leadership position, that's what happens to them. They get, they're looking down their weapon and they don't see anything that's happening. They can't make any decisions because they don't see the entire picture. They see nothing. So,


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[Assistant] That's kind of crazy and that's again, these are just some of the examples that I pulled from listening to you and listen to your podcast by the way, Huberman Lab.


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[Assistant] Before we get down any more rabbit holes, let's, let's talk about where you came from, how you ended up in this spot. Cause I would say you didn't take sort of a standard route to end up where you ended up. So let's talk about young Andrew Huberman. What's going on? Where are you born?


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[Assistant] And this is, so this is like this until you're around 13?


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[Assistant] And your mom was just, was she working at this time? What was she doing where she's like just... She was working. Allowing you to go to San Francisco and skate all day.


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[Assistant] And you just randomly didn't like drugs or alcohol? Was there something in your...


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[Assistant] What do you think? How did this therapist?


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[Assistant] Actually connect to you. Because most of the things I see with kids,


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[Assistant] Yours truly included when I was a kid a super rebellious kid. I didn't listen to anybody like that was


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[Assistant] You know, any adult just didn't know anything and...


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[Assistant] What do you, what are you listening to for music right now? So as you start talking about this,


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[Assistant] And I'm sitting here running through my life and thinking about, well, what kind of people had influence over me? And there was like a one of one guy that I knew his older brother was a Marine Corps, was in the Marine Corps, was a Marine Corps drill instructor. And you know, in my mind, when I was like 13 years old and I saw that, I was like, okay, that,


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[Assistant] Dude looks like he can kick ass and that seems like a good thing to be able to do. And then, you know, as I started listening to hardcore music and all of a sudden, you know, you, you know.


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[Assistant] Henry Rollins in Black Flag is like, doing pushups.


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[Assistant] And you think, okay, it looks like I need to start doing some pushups and, and then other, some other hardcore bands where you know that the guys are working out. And I remember like my friends and me were like, okay, well, it looks like we're working out. Why? Cause it's interesting you brought up like the,


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[Assistant] Kind of the posture and the stature, because when you're a kid and you're 13 and you weigh 138 pounds or whatever, you see someone that's like,


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[Assistant] 190 pounds. And they kinda look like-


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[Assistant] And they were talking about seeing HR from the bad brains, and HR from the bad brains was like older.


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[Assistant] You know, cause they were around in the late 70's, but he had been an athlete. HR from the Bad Brains had been an athlete in like high school. He was like a track athlete.


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[Assistant] Oh wait, you dressed like a skateboarder in the 90s, like you were wearing those big jeans and stuff?


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[Assistant] Which is coming back. Like for me, and like I guess I was a generation before that, right? Cause I guess I'm five years older, six years older than you. So like when I got Thrasher Magazine, it was like nothing but like hardcore.


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[Assistant] And metal and matter of fact, my name with my subscription to thrash or magazine.


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[Assistant] That was it, man. It was total rebellion. It was absolute rebellion. And that's the way.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's where I got, that's where I picked up a lot of music and started seeing that and to having that attitude and that rebellious attitude has suited me very well for my whole life.


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[Assistant] Most, most of the time it's worked out alright. Sometimes it's been a little bit much, but, but yeaah, then, then, so I joined the Navy.


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[Assistant] So that kind of brings us through your sort of educational system and what you've been learning along the way and uhm,


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[Assistant] I would, I wanna grab some of that knowledge, you know, of, of what you've learned about


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[Assistant] You know, how to be better, how to be smarter, how to be stronger, how to be faster, how to be more healthy.


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[Assistant] Cause all those things are things that, you know, I've been trying to do my whole life as well.


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[Assistant] And uh, obviously not done it on an academic level, but really through trial and error. And also being surrounded by a bunch of people that were always, you know, had that same kind of mindset. We were very lucky in the SEAL teams. We had guys.


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[Assistant] Blame my last being on a submarine. That's horrible. Being on a ship sometimes you get stuck down below decks. And I remember, this is interesting, I remember I would have like the urge to go out and


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[Assistant] But, but we wanted to be outside. I remember having a distinct urge to wanna get outside. So it's really sad if people are in scenarios where they aren't seeing the sun for four hours upon wake up. That's kinda crazy.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's when I realized, oh, if you don't stop and take a break, you're, like, I'd get done and I'd walk out, you know, walk outside and my, my vision would be blurry. And...


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[Assistant] Cause I was just working at that close range for 5, 6, 7, 8 hours. Horrible.


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[Assistant] We got some light. This is interesting because I wake up early in the morning, I work out, uh, but.


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[Assistant] Okay, well I'm going on, you know, half an hour 45 minute run.


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[Assistant] Uh, so we got some light, and by the way, interestingly, I don't, I wear sunglasses a lot, and maybe that's bad. I wear sunglasses actually almost all the time if I'm in the sun, but when I go for a run in the morning, I never wear sunglasses because of sweat and all this other stuff.


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[Assistant] And I'm going in the ice bath. Perfect. So body temperature? Five to seven minutes in the ice bath. That's a good long ice bath.


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[Assistant] Think about, like, for, for my, for my ice bath in the morning, I've, I always think, like, I feel so good when I get done that it's worth the little shock of when you get in. And actually, you legitimately do get used to the...


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[Assistant] The quote shock of getting in. Like if I go on a trip for a week.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it sucks when you, cause at my ice bath, well I have like the little jet, mine has a little jet.


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[Assistant] Honestly, I thought it seemed kind of weak to like have to go do that, right? Yeah, so I didn't do it. Uh, but there has been time from thinking man, like I'll see, you know, you know, look at other people and they'll be like drinking coffee isn't working out first thing in the morning and I'm thinking, you know, maybe I should do it. You know, maybe I am wrong. Um, and I'm open to being totally wrong.


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[Assistant] So, just to, just to make sure I'm tracking, so you got two rats. One of them has, their dopamine has been blocked. Correct. But at this point, they're both just eating the sugary, drinking the sugary water, just everything's fine.


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[Assistant] See, this is interesting. We had an experiment that we talked about on here. I had a, back in the day I had an RV and for whatever reason we had, I had taken the mint chocolate chip ice cream and put it in the RV freezer for some reason. I forget why. And,


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[Assistant] I had, I had a guy I worked with, unfortunately he died, but he, you would, you would see, like he was in my platoon, you would see, he, he, he, he would take that, he called it a rippy rip.


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[Assistant] And then you let that go, or you, you know, maybe you worked for a little bit of time, you know, like, hey, writing a book, right? I've written a bunch of books.


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[Assistant] Of the fact that, oh, this is my dopamine crash and I can't ex- I shouldn't anticipate continued hype through this situation, I need to push through it. That's, that's good awareness to have.


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[Assistant] Being aware of these things I think is so important because, you know, if, uh, if I said, hey, you're gonna walk through my house and I'm gonna scare you, I'm gonna jump out and scare you at some point.


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[Assistant] Right. And I said, yeah, come by my house and uh, you know, just, just let yourself in. I'll be there in a little while. Then I freaking jumped out and scared you. You'd be scared because you're not aware of it. You're not aware of what's going to happen. So having awareness, I remember had a, a fighter who had been a highly competitive wrestler and he was going to fight in a, in a big organization and he was sort of like,


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[Assistant] Cause when he went and fought, now he's in the UFC and he got nervous. And what really I think messed him up was he didn't understand what was happening.


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[Assistant] And you'd see them before an op and you could just see the look on their face like they are scared. And what they're scared of...


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[Assistant] Hey, you, uh, you feel like you got some butterflies in your stomach right now? You know? Feel like your heart is going a little bit? And they're like, uh, and they don't want to tell you the truth. They're like, no, no, I feel fine. It's like, bullshit. I can see. And they go, yeah. And I say, cool. You're just, you're just nervous. It's just your body getting ready for combat. It's no big deal. Everyone's going to feel like that. And then they feel okay. So situations that you're talking about where if you don't know what it is,


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[Assistant] Whereas you say, hey listen, after you get a good big dopamine hit, you're not going to feel fired up three hours later. That's when you got to put in the work. Be aware of the fact that you won't feel like doing it. Cause people think, I just didn't feel like going anymore. It's like, yeah, of course you didn't. You got all your dopamine and you already used it and you need to let that thing rebuild.


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[Assistant] Dude, maybe I don't even want to do this. You know, maybe I don't even want to be here. You know? I remember, you know, I just get to, cause I trained jiu-jitsu at night.


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[Assistant] This isn't me being a wimp. This isn't me.


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[Assistant] You know, not wanting to do this, it's my own natural, you know, hormones that are doing this thing, making me feel this way, and I can just work through them.


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[Assistant] So you know, I always hold off on looking at my watch, you know, when I'm in there, I'm just going to wait, you know, cause it's not going to be as long as you thought it was.


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[Assistant] So I'm in that mode, I'm looking at Instagram, so my hands aren't in it, but still, it's like, I'm looking at Instagram, and...


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[Assistant] I go, how long has it been? It's probably been, it's probably been at least, I'm probably at the 3 minute mark right now. I roll over, look at my watch, I'm at like 520. So.


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[Assistant] I got that, that's how people look at their freaking screen and all of a sudden they look up and they've wasted 28 minutes on there. Cause I mean I was in a, in cold water, you know? And time went by a little bit quicker. Imagine if you were sitting in a


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[Assistant] I'll be reading something just super stressful or even talking to someone that you know is in a terrible situation. You can go listen to this podcast and you'll hear like just silence and you'll hear me go


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[Assistant] The limbic system. So I'm sitting here, you're painting this picture when you're talking about serotonin and your testosterone.


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[Assistant] Unfortunately, we all know that that's not the reality and people end up in this weird thing where they don't go in.


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[Assistant] What, what is the opposing force on these things that trips us up?


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[Assistant] Is that also going to be a 20 or is that only a 10 because you didn't really earn it?


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[Assistant] It's, uh, you clued me in on this one Echo, variable rewards. So, like, even when you're looking at, uh, YouTube, right? And you click on a video, and it looks good, it's got a good-


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[Assistant] Yeah, uh, it's, it's interesting cause the, the hunting thing, like how does it compare to combat? I've had guys ask me that. And there's a really big difference is that, that


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[Assistant] You know, that thing's not gonna shoot back at you, but if you go and hunt like a grizzly bear,


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[Assistant] So the, so the limbic system can screw you in.


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[Assistant] Both ways, it could screw me in, like, I lose my temper and attack you and I end up going to jail because I stabbed you in the neck because I lost my temper. It can also screw me by


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[Assistant] There's a couple things that I've been, I've been talking about for a while. The one I'm gonna start with is this idea I've been telling people for a while. Hey listen, you got tendencies. So we all have different tendencies. You might have a tendency, let's say from a leadership perspective, that you're a micromanager.


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[Assistant] And then you've gotta say, my tendency also might be right. So now I'm thinking about this from, and I also say, hey listen, as a leader,


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[Assistant] You gotta watch the crowd, and you gotta pay attention to make sure that the crowd is going in the right direction. When the crowd starts to get fired up about something, yeah we need to go assault that building, we need to go assault that building.


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[Assistant] You need to run it through that check first. The other thing is,


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[Assistant] They're gonna all know that you're lying. Like you can't fool. It's very difficult to fool a group of people into, you know, positive thinking. What's the secret of the secret book, right? That's where it's like, hey, it's all coming out. It's very hard to fool someone into that.


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[Assistant] But if you believe, hey, this is what we're doing, this is a huge opportunity, this is gonna be a tough mission, but it's gonna be worthwhile, if that's what you believe,


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[Assistant] Other people are going to get on board with that and you really are going to have a totally different attitude going into it.


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[Assistant] But I remember hearing him say, and I'm pretty sure it was him, please don't, I'm sorry if I'm getting this wrong, but, he said,


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[Assistant] Whereas Bob Dole, or whoever this veteran was, was like, uh, war's gonna make me better.


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[Assistant] Behaviors or reinforcing mindsets and it starts to spread where now everybody's thinking well


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[Assistant] Would be cutting themselves and it's something that would, oh, that's what we're doing was kind of this. These things would spread in a, um, you know, we talked about on one of our other podcasts, uh, I think it was bulimia, right? That started.


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[Assistant] A guy wrote an article about it. There had been some small number of cases.


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[Assistant] A lot of strange things that are spreading right now in, in, in America and worldwide where you go, hey, that's, that didn't, that wasn't a thing not too long ago.


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[Assistant] Interestingly, uh, you know, I'll have the idea of empathy raised with me a lot through leadership. You know, isn't it important to be empathetic?


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[Assistant] I've always made a distinction between well, what I really want to do is I want to be better at understanding what your perspective is. So I want to truly understand what your perspective is, but I don't really want to


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[Assistant] Actually feel what you're feeling because now I've I might have messed up what I'm trying to what what my perspective is and by the way


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[Assistant] You know, it's interesting, we've been given a hard time to Instagram a bunch today. But now you start talking about, now we're talking about Twitter.


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[Assistant] That there's people that are, you can see it when you read through what they're writing. They are feeling legitimate anger. Like, I'm like you. Like, I'll read something like, oh, that's kind of funny. You know, even when people are saying,


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[Assistant] But they are pissed. So they're getting a little dopamine hit by creating just friction and mayhem.


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[Assistant] Well, it's also, I'm sitting here painting myself very guilty because if you think about like listening to hardcore music, this is, this is music that is fueled by anger and fuels anger and it feels good. Like the first time I ever heard like the Cro-Mags,


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[Assistant] Yeah, and I think it's this is like another just to bring up this word awareness again. We got some awareness now of the dopamine.


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[Assistant] And now we can start to put that into the calculus of how we're behaving. And now we're talking about the limbic system and understanding and being aware of what the limbic system is trying to do and that it may or may not be leading you in the right direction, but you need to use your, your, your own brain to


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[Assistant] And then during one of the breaks, a couple of the guys that were there, these are business guys, they came up, you know, said, yeah, you know,


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[Assistant] You, you have just such great instincts. It's so obvious, you know, as a leader that you just have these great instincts. And I was kind of like, yeah, you know, it's pretty, I'm a, I'm really got really good instincts and they kind of inflated my ego and I felt great about myself. And then I went back, we were out the woods and I went back to my, my little cabin and I started thinking to myself, wait a second, first of all,


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[Assistant] If, if the only thing I have is good leadership instincts, and I'm just a good natural leader and that's what I have, what good is it to me


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[Assistant] Are we going to support each other if I make this decision? Is it going to help us as a team if I make this decision? Oh, and by the way,


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[Assistant] Can I get someone, can I delegate this problem to someone else? Can I, can I give it to them so that I can then look up and out?


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[Assistant] And I had this, so I went through this list of things. Hey, is this part of the mission that we're actually trying to do? Cause sometimes you're on a mission and you get distracted by something else and all of a sudden you get focused on that. You, you can't allow yourself to do that. And I had this whole list of things of these thoughts that I will go through. And the most important thing as I get done telling, explaining this list of things to people is,


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[Assistant] You can't get caught on any one of these things. If you get caught on


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[Assistant] But you can't forget about everything else that's going on. So, this is an interesting dynamic when I hear these, that my frontal lobe has these spinning plates. Well, I know.


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[Assistant] If you get stuck in action, which some people think, Oh, that'd be good. You're taking action. No, but if you are taking action, but you're not running the feedback and seeing how this action is affecting everything else that's happening around you, you have to do the action. Then you have to go back and observe how it's impacting this scenario and then orient yourself to where you are now and then decide if that was a good action or not.


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[Assistant] They're out there. I know that, I know that there's times when I have all these plates spinning and I know that if I get focused on one of those spinning plates,


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[Assistant] Uh, you know, six months from now and then you've got an even bigger one that's going five years. That's all these different OODA loops going on at the same time that you have to be


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[Assistant] You know this, uh, when you talked about, here's another interesting crossover.


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[Assistant] A lot of times when I talk about people taking a step back, taking a breath, uhm,


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[Assistant] It really does allow you to see a new perspective and hopefully find a solution. And another thing I've been saying a lot lately is the solutions to your problem are not in the problem.


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[Assistant] When you have a problem, the solutions are not in there. If the solutions were in there, you just, it wouldn't be a problem, you just solve it. You have to get outside the problem. You have to figure out how to take a step back, how to see it from a different perspective. Cause if the solution to the problem was in the problem, you would just execute on that thing. It wouldn't even be an issue. So we have to,


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[Assistant] To take a step back and one of the best ways to do that if you have the time and the opportunity to do it in an usually in what we call the military and administrative situation meaning there's no bullets flying.


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[Assistant] Come back and read it again and you're going to start to see that you're going to have a better chance of finding a solution than if you're living inside the problem.


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[Assistant] Wait a second. Let me catch up with you mentally here, cause I'm trying to figure out why it's amazing that I realize and recognize myself in the mirror. Why is that amazing?


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[Assistant] Yeah, I have a couple triggers that I use when, you know, when you approach me with your plan.


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[Assistant] And your plan doesn't make sense to me. That immediately tells me, okay, he sees something I don't see. I need to try and get in his head. I need to try and figure out what his perspective is. When you're mad, you come into my office and I can see that you're mad.


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[Assistant] I immediately, I'm not thinking what's wrong with him, I'm thinking what does he see that I don't see. And, and yeaah, that's a critical part of...


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[Assistant] Not only just leadership, but just interacting with other human beings. You know, if you, if you, when I'm married, I've been married for a long time. When my wife, I can see a look on her face. She's not happy.


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[Assistant] It start, you know, now the day is moving along. At what point are we eating? 11am.


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[Assistant] See, I, you, I will, if I wanna sleep, or let's say, maybe something happened where I


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[Assistant] Uh, you know, you, you, you mentioned, you know, sugar, the habit of sugar, and you don't drink or don't take much sugar anymore, and you, you know, one of the podcasts that you've done is about habits, making habits, breaking habits,


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[Assistant] Give us some high level habit forming and habit breaking neurological strategies we can utilize.