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[Assistant] And here's some advanc- some examples of that. Diffusion of the company over too wide a sector. A retrograde movement by supporting weapons such as armor. The death of a well-loved officer. Light losses from friendly supporting fire.


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[Assistant] The appearance of some new and unexpected weapon in the enemy sector. Such are a few of the causes of psychological shock. The local treatments are as many and as varied as are the diseases.


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[Assistant] It is, in instances where it is unmistakable that they have been hurt by their own fire, however, the commander is ill-advised to lie to them.


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[Assistant] They will usually learn the truth later on, and when they do, it strikes a blow to his prestige.


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[Assistant] The experienced combat soldier knows that such occasional accidents are part of battle and he accepts them as such, but he cannot make any good judgment to the realization that his commander is either a fool or a liar.


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[Assistant] No gain ever comes from being slick with troops. From acting deviously instead of forthrightly. From posing as having superior knowledge or from being secretive or discounting the common sense of the majority.


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[Assistant] See, a lot of people do that. They discount the common sense. They think they're gonna get away with that with, with trying to bullshit the troops and it doesn't work.


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[Assistant] The most common cause of psychological shock however is partial victory.


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[Assistant] The adage that the weakest point follows success is a fundamental truth of minor tactics, and the danger is always greatest.


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[Assistant] When success is too easily won. Success is disarming. Tension is the normal state of mind and body in combat. When the tension suddenly relaxes through the winning of a first objective, troops are apt to be pervaded


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[Assistant] By a sense of extreme well-being and there is apt to ensue laxness in all its forms and with all its dangers.


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[Assistant] He hammers this home. It might be well to speak of the importance of enthusiasm, kindness, courtesy, and justice, which are the safeguards of honor and the tokens of mutual respect between man and man. This last there must be


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[Assistant] But no man ever wins the loyalty of troops by preaching loyalty.


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[Assistant] It is given him by them as he proves his possession of the other virtues.


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[Assistant] The doctrine of a blind loyalty to leadership is a selfish and futile military dogma, except in so far as it is ennobled by a higher loyalty in all ranks to truth and decency.


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[Assistant] War is too, war is much too brutal a business to have room for brutal leading. In the end, its only effect can be to corrode the character of men, and when character is lost, all is lost.


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[Assistant] The bully and the sadist serve only to further encumber an army. Their subordinates must waste precious time clearing away the wreckage that they make.


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[Assistant] The good company has no place for the officer who would rather be right than be loved. For the time will quickly come when he walks alone.


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[Assistant] And, in battle, no man may succeed in solitude. That's worth repeating.


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[Assistant] The good company has no place for the author, officer who would rather be right.


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[Assistant] Then be loved. We talked about that when Jordan was on. You don't need to be right when you're dealing with your significant other. No. That's not important.


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[Assistant] I have known a few brutes in battle whose talents were so limited that they could no- try no other means of command than the abuse of men.


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[Assistant] Because he's talking about all these kindness and courtesy and justice. And then he says ruggedness. Ruggedness? Toughness? Ah, these are quite different things.


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[Assistant] They will win the hearts of other men and will stimulate their valor. These others will try to be like them.


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[Assistant] From the same campaign. The scene is stonewalled Fort Montbury. The last obstacle barring entry into breast.


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[Assistant] A battalion of the 116th Infantry Regiment under Major Tom Dallas has had the fort invested for three days.


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[Assistant] But the defenders have withdrawn to within the inner walls and will not surrender. The infantry fire cannot get at them.


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[Assistant] The ports have been flamed but without visible effect. Finally, Dallas acts for three tons of TNT to blow the walls. He is given one ton.


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[Assistant] Assisted by the infantry, the engineers lay the charge in a gallery under the wall.


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[Assistant] The work completed. Dallas is ready to give the orders.


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[Assistant] Then he remembers, on the night before, the battalion had attacked, and Lieutenant Derwood C. Settles had been killed in the moat. There had been no chance to recover the body.


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[Assistant] It is still there and will be crushed by the falling masonry.


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[Assistant] So the demolition is held up and Dallas asks for a volunteer to go down to the moat under fire and bring out the body. A young lieutenant named Kelton responds. In a few minutes, Kelton returns with his burden. He says to Dallas, we are ready now.


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[Assistant] Dallas replies, ready? Then blow them all to hell. The charge goes off, the earth shakes. The walls collapse with a roar. There is a stunned silence from within the fort.


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[Assistant] Dallas stands there for a few seconds and the tears fall as he looks down at the body of his dead officer.


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[Assistant] Close this out with a couple more things in every action, large or small is decided by what happens up there on the line with where men take the final chance of life or death.


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[Assistant] Any who look at war and think otherwise are sighting through the wrong end of the telescope.


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[Assistant] They have become deceived by the vastness of the national preparation. How differently they would see things if it became their duty to measure the thin margins between victory and defeat on the field itself.


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[Assistant] The great victories of the United States have pivoted on the acts of courage and intelligence of a very few individuals.


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[Assistant] The time always comes in battle when the decisions of statesmen and of general generals can no longer affect the issue.


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[Assistant] And when it is not within the power of our national wealth to change the balance decisively.


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[Assistant] Victory is never achieved prior to that point. It can only be won after the battle has been delivered into the hands of men who move in imminent danger of death.


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[Assistant] Courage is the real driving force in human affairs and that every worthwhile action comes of some man daring what others fear to attempt.


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[Assistant] If there were no willing men, no power in government could ever rally the masses of the unwilling.


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[Assistant] To men who have been long in battle, and have thought about it deeply.


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[Assistant] There comes at last the awareness of this ultimate responsibility that one man must go ahead so that a nation may live.


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[Assistant] And so, the final and greatest reality.


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[Assistant] That national strength lies only in the hearts and spirits of men.


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[Assistant] Navy and Air Force are not the guardians of its national security.


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[Assistant] The tremendous problem of the future is beyond their capacity to solve.


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[Assistant] The search begins at the cradle where the mother makes the decision either to tie her child to her apron strings or to rear him as a man.


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[Assistant] It continues through years of schooling when children are taught either to place personal interests uppermost or to think in terms of their responsibility toward their society, their country.


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[Assistant] Think that that reflects not just the strength and freedom of... nations.


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[Assistant] We are ultimately responsible for ourselves, for our own freedom, for our own security. It is on us.


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[Assistant] About being truthful and honest, which he was not


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[Assistant] And had he listened to some of his own teachings, he might not have made that mistake to tarnish his reputation. It's not worth it.


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[Assistant] And maybe that's the last thing we learned, is that we just don't, just don't talk the talk, just don't preach.


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[Assistant] And then you go and you live with the courage and the strength and the discipline.


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[Assistant] And walking the walk. And living the life. Staying on the path.


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[Assistant] Maybe you've got some things that could help us uphold the personal standards that we set for ourselves.


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[Assistant] If this guy, if this guy, if we just knew about his normal military record and you never said he did any of that stuff, this would have so much more impact. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] The fact that he lied just, just, eh, it just hurts it. It's all there is to it. Jammed him up as, as Echo Charles would say.


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[Assistant] Okay, so if that's the case, does origin facilitate jujitsu? Yes sir, it does. Big time. Which is good, right? You gotta eat food and you gotta have origin. Yes. Check.


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[Assistant] I had when we were in Maine, so after the camp was over Pete and I were at the factory we were just getting stuff done and


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[Assistant] For him, for the team, like when you talk to anyone on the team at Origin, they're like wanting this stuff to be awesome.


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[Assistant] It's cool, if you ever get a chance to go to the factory up there, it's worth checking out.


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[Assistant] Yep. For sure. For sure. The rash guards. Compression gear. We got supplements as well. So we got, for supplements, joint warfare. Which is gonna help your joints. For a bunch of different reasons. I get awesome compliments about that.


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[Assistant] That I'm stoked on. Uhm, that, krill oil, also gonna help your joints, and it's gonna help you just a whole life.


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[Assistant] And then you got the discipline, which I'm on a lot of discipline right now. And I didn't even realize we were in a three hour podcast at this moment in time. And we recorded a couple other podcasts today. Shorter podcasts, but podcasts nonetheless.


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[Assistant] Took the ACTs. Mhm. On Saturday. Mhm.


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[Assistant] And she came home, she, I, I kind of fueled her up on some discipline before rolling in, and she came back fired up. She was like, yeah, no, I felt so, I was getting off. And I was like, yeah, you're just, you're on the discipline. And you know how many scoops I gave her? And you know, she's not as big as me, but I still gave my girl three scoops of discipline.


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[Assistant] And uh, oh yea, and the last thing is, and it's not the, it's the last but certainly not the least, is, is something called MOLK. If you want to know what MOLK is, it's real simple. MOLK is MOLK.


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[Assistant] First of all, I don't even like, I straight up don't even like pancakes.


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[Assistant] Come on man, the maple syrup come from origin main. Okay, that's a bummer.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so that's the milk. It normally goes with milk. Or you can put it in water, but that's like a ham sandwich, whereas if you put milk in there, it's like delicious.


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[Assistant] Is your instinct to think, oh, this is some kind of a supplement, it's gonna taste bad, I just have to deal with it, but this one maybe tastes okay, and therefore, you know, these guys are talking it up. But the reality is, the reality is, it's good, like a dessert. Like a milkshake.


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[Assistant] Because you're always making stuff I don't even know about. Decentralized command style.


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[Assistant] A novelty item? Sure. You think people are gonna, you think people on the path are outspending their hard earned money on novelty items? Is that what's going on?


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[Assistant] That's not, that's a weird word to pick for the ad for the Nike ad. It's a little bit of a weird word to pick. It's a little bit, it's not a normal word to pick. In my opinion. It's a, it's a good word to pick. But anyways.


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[Assistant] Uh, life got the upper hand a little bit. But we back. But that's life.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I had to get default aggressive this weekend and just crush some of those. Uh, yeah, so Warrior Kid Podcast for your kids and for, well, really Uncle Jake has lessons for everybody. Also, Warrior Kid


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[Assistant] There's a warrior kid at irishoaksranch.com, Aiden. He's up there working hard.


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[Assistant] And he's making, he's got a business. He's making soap. Jocko soap. Good soap. Good soap. And you can get that there. Help yourself. And you help yourself by staying clean. That's the idea. Stay clean. Yeah. The YouTube channel.


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[Assistant] If you want to see Echo's legit video, did you post the, uh, the, uh, the video that you just made? The revenge.


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[Assistant] That's the YouTube video. YouTube channel, which is called Jocko Podcast. It's a YouTube channel. You can watch all the YouTube videos on there. And then you can leave crazy comments from some anonymous thing about all kinds of crazy stuff, which is fun.


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[Assistant] It's actually, in many ways, considered to me to be the first thing you could get. If you, if you had one thing you could get, you could get rings and you could do really well with them.


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[Assistant] We gotta get wood rings, I always tell everyone, get wood rings, not plastic rings, not metal rings, get wood rings, cause they absorb the sweat. They, they do. Oh, okay. Yeah, anything else is slippery. They'll get slippery. Yeah, it's horrible.


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[Assistant] So you can do a stuff, if you're brucey. Oh man, rings all day. That's the overall.


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[Assistant] Check, uh, Psychological Warfare album. We're working on the next one. I'm thinking that the next one is not gonna come out. It's gonna come out right around Christmas, is my guess. So if you have anything, somebody wants one about shopping.


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[Assistant] Compulsive. How do I shop? Stop compulsive shopping. I don't know if I can tackle that one. You know why? I have no compulsion to shop. I don't even like shopping. I don't even like going to the store.


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[Assistant] We can, we can, we can put together a little something. So, psychological warfare, if you got little moments of weakness you want to overcome, I can talk to you personally about that through your iPhone.


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[Assistant] Google play iTunes mp3 but through your through your Android. I don't leave you all out through your Samsung, right? Sure equal opportunity platform device one devices


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[Assistant] Okay, so then I also got some books. We got The Way of the Warrior Kid. And Mark's Mission. This is for kids between the ages of 4 and 84. Because everybody can get something.


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[Assistant] Yeah, in the second book, Mark, who's a young character in the book, wants to get, wants to get a new bike, but he needs money. And in order to get money, guess what you need? You need a job, son. You need a job.


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[Assistant] But the dichotomy of being strong, it's all in there.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I forget so much good feedback. Anyways, that's that, uh, way the warrior kid and Mark's mission. Also, the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, which is solid.


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[Assistant] Reminder, it's not, uh, you don't need to read that whole book every day. You can read one, you can read three pages.


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[Assistant] It's a good thing to read. You could like read that. Read a page, two pages, three pages every day. It will-


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[Assistant] Would you, I would say this, it will absolutely help you if you read three pages a day. Yeaah. That's a bold statement too. Yeaah. I'm saying this book, a book, this isn't a, this isn't a, this isn't a, an exercise program, this isn't a supplement that you take, this isn't a, this isn't a treatment that you get, this is a book, pages in a book, if you read them, it's gonna help you.


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[Assistant] That's, that's what my statement is. And I believe it to be true. Why? Because I read it.


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[Assistant] I wrote the damn thing, and I still read it. And it's helpful. And then we got Extreme Ownership, which is Combat Leadership. I wrote it with my brother, Leif Babin. And...


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[Assistant] How to take the principles that we learn in combat and use them in your business and life and the follow on book to that.


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[Assistant] I do talk about the dichotomy a lot, because the dichotomy is present in everything that we do. So,


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[Assistant] If you want to get this book, it comes out September 25th. If you want to get the first dish, you should order it yesterday or right now because


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[Assistant] Well, you don't want to miss out on the first edition. I got my first copies, I'm holding one right there. There it is. So, dichotomy leadership.


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[Assistant] Speaking of leadership, we got a leadership consulting company called Echelon Front, and we solve problems through leadership. It's me.


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[Assistant] It's Leif. It's JP Donnell, Dave Burke, Flynn Cochran. We also got Mike Cirelli on board. We got a couple new members joining the team right now. If you want us to come to your company, go to echelonfront.com. That's what we do. Also the muster in San Francisco, California.


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[Assistant] Getting close to sold out. We probably have a little bit left right now.


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[Assistant] Maybe by the time this podcast comes out it might be sold out if you want to come to the muster leadership event San Francisco, California October 17th and 18th all the other ones have sold out


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[Assistant] This one is going to sell out too. If you want to come, don't wait till the last minute. Don't wait until I post on social media that the muster sold out and then call up and say, can we please fit one more people? Cause we can't. If we could, we wouldn't say it was sold out. So just, just register now for the muster and for current


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[Assistant] Uniform personnel, military, law enforcement, border patrol, firefighters, paramedics, first responders, we got the roll call. September 21st, we just opened up a few more seats. I think we opened up 50 more seats. We've done that twice now, but it's gonna be, I don't know if we'll be able to do it again, because registration's gonna be closing soon. That is also registered at ExtremeOwnership.com.


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[Assistant] And of course now we have EF Overwatch. Where we are connecting.


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[Assistant] Spec Ops. Veterans. Combat Aviation Veterans. With.


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[Assistant] Can bring the attitude of extreme ownership into your company. If you want to, on either side, if you're a vet and you want to get in,


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[Assistant] Get, uh, look for a job. If you're someone that needs a leader in your company, go to EFOverwatch.com to get in the game. And if you want to keep cruising with Echo Charles and me.


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[Assistant] And that has served in the US military. Thanks to you and your families for shielding us from evil and keeping us free. And to police, law enforcement, correctional officers, border patrol, firefighters, paramedics, other first responders here at home.


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[Assistant] Thanks for being vigilant and protecting us and our families. And to everyone else out there.


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[Assistant] And it takes courage and it takes strength and it takes discipline day after day after day to get up and face the unforgiving world and get after it. So until next time, this is Echo and Jaco.


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[Assistant] Leaving in the mo- First question, we can't edit out your stuff right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


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[Assistant] Alright, Jaco. For a new entrepreneur or someone new to a leadership position who is meeting with their employees or direct repor- or direct reports for the first time.


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[Assistant] The micromanaging and oversight is extreme and it's taking a toll on the morale of the officers citywide. The tedious paperwork and constant micromanaging is preventing good cops from being proactive. I feel like the job, quote unquote, has changed beyond recognition.


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[Assistant] Alright, I'm gonna go back to this other one. Three dinner guests, living or dead, and why?


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[Assistant] Next question. I'm not in the military nor am I a firefighter or law enforcement. I'm an air traffic controller here in the New York area.


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[Assistant] And I found myself in several leadership positions within our union.


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[Assistant] As it has been the biggest influence and game changer in my opinion. Unions typically come hand in hand with what about me attitudes.


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[Assistant] And we definitely have that within our ranks. This is something I've been trying to tackle with both new air controllers, new controllers and older ones, and I think I'm making headway slowly but surely. Thanks to you and life.


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[Assistant] My question is this. Have you ever had direct experience dealing with unions and this particular mindset? Is there any advice you can have, you have specific to labor unions that could make this more effective, efficient?


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[Assistant] In everything that I do. But I've noticed that many of the frontline supervisors in this agency want officers to be reactive rather than proactive. The supervisor in particular has told me to stop working so hard and get salty.


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[Assistant] It's kinda like steering like a big van, right? You can't just start making big turns with a big, otherwise the thing's gonna, gonna tip over a little bit.


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[Assistant] That instills discipline and leadership with your kids while balancing today's demanding 24-7 corporate environment.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it makes sense too. And you kinda gotta tell the truth to yourself, cause you know how like, you could answer the email later or at another time, not dinnertime or whatever. You know? But you kinda gotta be truthful. That's what I've found. Anyway, it helps.


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[Assistant] Can I add one more thing to, to that, which actually Jaco opened my eyes to this, and it like,


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[Assistant] Like your kids are always watching you, like always watch. So if you're yelling at mom or yelling at people on the phone or, I don't know, doing stuff, you're doing stuff that you don't want them to do, you can say, hey, don't do this. They'll be like, cool. But once they kind of get the opportunity, they're like, I guess this is kind of how because,


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[Assistant] Dad does it. Especially with the yelling thing. And losing like, how do you deal with stress and stuff? They'll jump right on that. That's what I-


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[Assistant] Yeah, so they're always watching you. That helped me, I think, a lot.


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[Assistant] Jocko Echo, thank you for everything that, uh, you've given us. Acknowledging that we all have secrets. Jocko.


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[Assistant] What would be that trigger event to make you say, okay, public office, stand by to get some.


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[Assistant] I'll finish by saying quite frankly, you have a nation of troopers, both foreign and domestic, that believe and know that you're qualified to lead and ready to lend their support.


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[Assistant] Uhm, as somebody who's, uh, recently, uh, recently proposed to somebody who would like to spend the rest of my life with, as somebody who's married and has, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From their partner, uh, what is your tips to building a uh, mortar-proof marriage that's gonna last a long time?


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[Assistant] And the two young men go to their god.


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[Assistant] That is the kind of people who are on watch all over the world tonight.


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[Assistant] It's gonna be a bad analogy, but bear with me. We all know you're good. We all know you're good at bad analogies. So let's say you're trying to, I don't know, like let's say you have an ant problem, right?


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[Assistant] So not only did you not kill the, and then the mouse now goes recovers and now teaches all other mice how to get past mousetraps. Okay. Your mousetrap kind of worked against you. So like, just like when Matt said, oh yeah, that guy who pressed the button to, to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the guy who made the bomb kinda screwed himself. You know what I mean? In this big way.


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[Assistant] Actually some Jujitsu training we used to do, they, you know, they say close your eyes. When you train, you start back to back. And the thing is, once you have contact with a guy,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yes, on the path, very good, jiu-jitsu. So, when you're doing jiu-jitsu, on this path that we're all on, by the way, you're gonna need a gi. You don't want a gi if you do gi, which I recommend, by the way. Origin gi, this is where you get your gi's at originmain.com. Gi, rash guard, there's other stuff on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah. That's what we're doing. Yes. OriginMain.com. Go there. Gee. Rashguards. Danum. Joggers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I'm back. Oh man, I twisted my knee out doing jiu-jitsu. Like the guy that popped out, popped back in. They do that. They're skinny. Yes, but they're loose too, strangely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Strange, actually my knees are so loo- I can't with the knees, I know. But my knees are so loose that I uhm, I like sprained it one time, so I went to the orthopedic surgeon, you know, check it out, he was like, oh yea, you blew your ACL. I was like-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I knew that my knees were loose because the doctor at that time was like, hey, you have real like, I don't know, long ligaments? I don't know. I know that sounds funny. Long ligaments, I know. But that's what he said.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, so my current orthopedic surgeon, I told him that. He was like, okay, that's good that you told me that. So he tries the other one and like, he's like, oh yeah, they're the same. Like, so it's probably not blown out, but hey, MRI anyway. MRI, boom. Anyway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, it takes a few days until I can bend them all away. And I'm pretty flexible, by the way. On the last, once I did that, double dose, joint warfare, and krill oil. Four days back in the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Boy, yeaah, and here's the thing about sugar too. And, sure I read a little thing about this, but I've noticed this. So you know how like uhm, when you're there like little babies or whatever, you'll give them like, I don't know, all kinds of stuff. And let's say you give them formula, but the formula's kinda sweetened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's like it's sweet and so they'll like it, so they'll eat it. Oh yeaah. But if you don't give them any sweet stuff, even when they grow up, they'll like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Little did I know it was really three times. That's how much you're supposed to- That's the recommended- But my mom always did the four times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And those, uh, the workout shirts you're talking about, what do you, uh, what, like a dry fit kind of situation and what?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe, maybe. Anyway, you wanna represent on the path, jocostore.com. If you see something you like, get something. How's this? How's this? Yes, lightweight hoodies. Oh, they're in. Oh, I know. They're in. They're up. They're representative of quality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, also YouTube, if you are interested in the video version of this podcast, you want to see what Matt looks like, little boy. You want to see what Jocko looks like, if you don't already.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's gonna, he might have to put like a request, like a section, like on his website or something like this, to filter that one out. Yeah, it's true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's some good stuff on there. I went through it and was like looking at it. I was like, ah, this is good, man. And I'm not really an artsy guy as far as hanging art on the wall. You ever been in a hotel?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Psychological warfare. If you don't know what that is, it's an album with tracks of Jocko getting you, getting us, getting all of us through our moments of weakness, whatever they may be. So check out that one, that's on like an Amazon mp3 spot where you get mp3s. You understand. iTunes, all that stuff. That's where you get it. It's really good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, on it. So, if you're expanding your home gym, still, which we all are, that's an ongoing thing I understand, get your kettlebells rings.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What else? These maces and clubs. Really good for your creative type workouts. Unless you, unless you want to keep a boring workout like Jocko. I mean that's up to you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, that's how, right? Use the weight, use the weight, like Rob Jones says. Boom, but yeah, that's where you go, OnIt.com. Actually, you know what? Here, how's this? The perfect mix, morning mix, or pre-workout mix, like before Jiu Jitsu, so OnIt has these, uh, it's, they're minerals, they're electrolyte minerals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I put a five hour energy every once in a while, I wanna like a boost or whatever, but all you need those minerals, the discipline, water, and oh that's when you take like your krill oil and all that stuff. Boom. Perfect mix. Interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Born in, uh, Boston, Massachusetts. And what'd your dad do? My dad was a, uh, my dad did many things. World War II, he's a pilot. And, uh, B-17 over in, uh, England. And, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] World War II? Yeah. Dang. Yeah, B-24s and, uh, he always wanted to be a fighter pilot and he tried to go to the Pacific, but that never happened. So anyways, he married my mom, uhm, and then, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We ended up living in Boston for a while. I mean, we traveled around the country because he was still in the service in the Air Force, uh, lived in Texas and lived in Colorado, lived in


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For, yes, for a little while. Okay. I don't know exactly when he got out. When he did get out, uhm, he started flying for United Airlines. Okay. And I know in the 50s and stuff he went to, I don't think he went to Korea. I'm lost right now, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but, uh, yeaah, he, he, uh, he did a multitude of things. He was a teacher, a lawyer, a farmer, uh, he farmed in Nebraska, he was born in Nebraska, had a, we had a big ranch back there, and, uh, he taught school, uh, in Nebraska, and then, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had been living in Santa Ana until I was nine years old. I went to visit, uh, my grandfather in Nebraska. And then that summer at the end of the summer, my folks ended up coming out with all the kids in the whole house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Decided not to fly for United Airlines anymore and become a farmer again. So uhm, yeaah, it was kind of different. So anyways, that's, yeaah, like I said, I lived in a lot of different states and stuff because of the service, but Nebraska was kind of like my favorite place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, a few other cattle, and we had pigs, and I raised 300 chickens, and, you know, and of course, you know, I had my brother and sisters, and stuff were there too, they all helped out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was, uh, 11. Yeah. I went back there at 10 and I was back there for like four, uh, three summers. You know, so I was 12. I think we ended up moving back to, uh, Connecticut.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A year in Connecticut. And then I, then my dad, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He bought a business here in San Diego, hall and hall personnel. And, uh, so we moved back out here and he found a place and we lived out in Spring Valley and, uh, he worked downtown, had his own office down there. So yeah, it was kind of different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here in San Diego. Yeaah, I started ninth grade in San Diego, went to Mt. McGill High School. And, uh, then...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I graduated, went to, I was going to college for a while and then, uh, got drafted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, when we lived in Santa Ana, I didn't serve, we had mats. Uh huh. We had mats up there. Old school. Oh yeaah. So, and I was young then, and we'd always go down to uhm, take me every day, you know, down, me and the kids.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, to Laguna Beach. Okay. Down the China Cove down there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we, uh, when we first came out here and stuff, I loved it. I thought we were going to move to the beach. We stayed at the San Diego Motel, right down there on, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Quite a bit actually. Yeah, I had a, I had a, uh, my dad bought me a fifty-three Chevy, fifty-four Chevy two-door and stuff so I ripped out the backseat so I get my boards in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, then I got my sister's car. She had a, uh, station wagon. It was a 57 Ford, two-door deluxe. You know, it was, you know, the whole thing. That was a surf wagon. Oh, yeah. I know. So me and the boys, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In high school, yeah, a little bit of wrestling, uh, I was mostly on the, uh, I was on the swim team. I dove and I swam and, uh, my fault, you know, somebody said, can anybody do the butterfly? And I go, yeah, I can, you know, I'm early, so you're the butterfly guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, just, yeaah, just life, you know. I was a kid, but, uhm, not that I can really recall, you know, it wasn't really on my radar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, he went to Grossman Junior College. What year did you graduate high school? Uh, 66. Okay. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, there was talk, you know, I read the draft, the draft and stuff like that, but it wasn't like, you know, like I said, it wasn't, I didn't really pay attention to it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, no, because I, I snow skied a lot. So, you know, there's a lot of activity and I belong to the ski club there at Grousemont. And, you know, so we go to Squaw Valley, heavenly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, uh, the class before me and stuff. No, I don't like, uh, Jim Tomlinson, uh, great guy, uh, he was 25th infantry over there and stuff. They came back with all the horror stories. So yeaah, I take that back. I was aware of it, you know, because all these guys are coming back and talking about it, but I never,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know, uh, me, I didn't worry about going, so, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I gotta do it. Yeah. It was a little bit scary, but you know, I'm, I always look forward to things. You know, I mean, I didn't look forward to going over there, but I mean, it's kind of different. I know why not try it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you had to go through the process of getting, you know, to go up to the draft ward in LA. So I did that and then came back and then had to go up on second time for something. And then that was when we ended up getting on a bus and going to Fort Ord and it was like, well, you're locked in, you know, you don't, no place to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, I had friends, yeaah, yeaah. I had friends that came home, or didn't come home, you know, that told me about it, you know, other friends and stuff, but I mean, it was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course, once you get in basic and stuff, they got, they got you. I know. They pretty much got you. And, uh, you either go along with the program or they make you go along with the program and you end up going along with the program.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You had all sorts of people. One thing about the draft, you had every walk of life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bushes, you know, I mean, it's like, you know, you got big guys, small guys, you got older guys. Now I was lucky because I was a little bit older and most of the guys, like when I was in Vietnam, were a lot younger than I was. I mean, other than.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. They're like the oldest person in the world. Yeaah. Yeaah. Of course all the other cadre and stuff are a lot older and stuff, you know, but uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We made it through basic training. Uhm, Sergeant Patterson was my drill instructor. Great guy. And then, towards the end, they came out and they had this chart.


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[Assistant] Everybody's name on it, Levin, Levin Bravo, Levin Bravo, Levin Bravo, and they saw me and Bob Zichwa, uh, was the Levin Echo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we asked one of the sergeants as we're walking by, I go, what, what's 11 Echo? What is that? You know, cause we knew 11 Bravo was infantry. And he goes, well, you're going to be a tanker. I go, cool. I'm going to drive trucks. You know, I farm background tractor or whatever, you know? And he goes, no, no, because I figure a tanker truck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In my mind, you know? I was going, oh, shoot. And uhm, they go, no, you're on the, you're a tank. I still didn't quite get it, you know? So anyways, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, in that respect, I go, okay fine. And only two of us out of like 210 guys or something had 11 Echo. A couple guys went to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The APC schools, you know, I forget what they call it. It was 11 echo A or something like that. I don't know. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wish Jimmy was here, yeaah. Uhm, what are they? John Wayne movie. You guys never saw it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's in Vietnam, he's a general. Oh, I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They sent you to see a movie. It was, you know, we got to go have a couple of beers and go see the movie and then back. And then after that we, uh, uh, came home. I know after basic training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Letting you know what's gonna happen to you. Why can't I think of that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did. I went through AIT in Fort Knox. That's where the, the Tank School is. And, uh, then they put me through, uh, NCO school. Which is, because they need a lot of NCOs, I guess, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to say, I guess. You know, it's just whatever your aptitude is to, to do things. You know, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, and then, you know, just mentally, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Prepare yourself for what's going on. I mean, radio operations, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, command and controls and, you know, things like that. So, I mean, things I didn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had no idea what I was doing, but, uh, yeaah, it worked out pretty good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, cause we, we, we went and became like, uh, E4s, uh, and then, and then once you graduated, you were at E5, you know, so you're a sergeant right away. Really? Yeaah. And then after you graduated from that school,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I started training on tanks. I get different, different guys. Lucky me, I got the National Guard guys from California on my tank, which was kind of, you know, they said, well, you're from California, you can train these guys. So I said, okay, well, yeaah, I'll do it. Pretty good guys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, we went through, uh, I don't know what was it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's more advanced training and stuff. I, anyways, I fell, I fell asleep in class one day, you know, and we were getting, it's getting towards like Christmas time and stuff, everybody's gonna get to go home. And this one lieutenant, I guess, cause I just nodded off. I mean, we'd been on this drill, boom, boom, boom, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he went through one of his classes and I nodded off and the guy goes on, sorry, you're not gonna go home, get out of my class. So I went back and I talked to my Sergeant Major and then he went and talked to some Colonel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then they went, I guess it went all the way to battalion or something like that. And they said, nah, he's going to go home. He finished the class. And so they let me back in the class and I finished it up and it was kind of like, well, good. I get to go home for Christmas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know I was home for my birthday. It's kind of hard for me to remember, I'm not sure, but I know I left here like April 15th, I think it was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had a pretty good party, I know, one night, and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, my next door neighbor had this beautiful rose gardens and his whole garden stuff, you know, there's guys sleeping out there. I went through a couple kegs and, and also it turned out pretty good. And, uh, so yeah, there was a little bit of moments, you know, where you're kind of a little anxious and stuff, you know, and I talked to my mom and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, she was an army nurse, you know, so she kinda knew what was going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She didn't show it though. You know, she never. She gave me a little book.


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[Assistant] I do someplace. All it was was a little saying that says, uh, out of Psalms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it says, be part of the answer, not the problem. And that was why I kept that with me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we flew from, uh, Frisco or Travis or whatever it is up there and, uh, flew to Japan, landed in Osaka, Japan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, the pilot was really nice. He went around Mount Fuji and stuff for us on both sides of the plane and, and, uh, then from there we went to, uh, Taunson-Nui Air Base.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was kinda, it was kinda strange, you know, first thing you'd land on the ground and stuff is just, where's my weapon? Well, cause you're obviously in a foreign country.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, in a hostile country too. And they go, ah, don't worry about it, you get it, you get it. You know? I'm like, okay. So then they, they, after that, that little gathering there, and they said, okay, everybody jump on this. You know, actually, Bob and I got split up. He went with another company, I went with...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The company I went with. And, uh, it was kinda like, see ya. And, uhm, so they threw us in the back of a Deuce and a half, and then we went to, uh, a, uh, how was I gonna name it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You got one guy up there, you know, out of the, they used to have turrets in the deuce and a half and stuff, and he's up there with the M16 and stuff, you know, it's kinda like where's ours, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so you go into a staging area and you spend a couple weeks there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they take you through what they call snake training. And what it is is it gets you familiar with the area. And, you know, the ants and the swamps and the, you know, the water and the rain and, you know, and all this. And they, they, they, uh, just introduce us to a lot of different things. Well, it was interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, because I was a buck sergeant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, this one class, this one class one day, they're all sitting on the bleachers, right? And some lieutenant or captain or something says, why don't you sit here and just monitor the radio? And I say, yeah, sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That day the bleachers collapsed with all the guys on it and they had broken legs and arms and it was terrible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just like two weeks. You know, we can have two weeks, something like that. And then, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got up to an area called Amlock, it was at the top of Highway 13, and uhm, I asked the first sergeant,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I asked him, I said, well, how many tanks do we have? And he goes, we don't have any tanks. I go, well, I'm a tank commander.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He goes, nah, don't worry about it, we got something out there, it's got a turret on it, and a gun out front.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Numerous times, I'm going, I never get back, never get back. And finally his mom said, well now Bob's in Washington, you know, recovering from wounds. I'm going, woah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was part of the, the, the flame platoon. Uhm, and I don't know, you know, and Red, Big Red, we call him, he's from, I think he's from Virginia or something like that. He was actually the guy that taught me how to use the flame pack, because it's a chemical MOS. I didn't know anything about napalm or anything like that, so it was a learning process. So I rode, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was a gunner on the track for, well, until my first firefight and stuff, and I was a side gunner on that one. And, uh, so we learned, and it was really, it was kind of nice, you know, you go out and the first few weeks I was there and stuff, it was like, the country's beautiful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were in the highlands, you know, so it was pretty cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, so we were going into these villages and we'd take the medics in there and they'd help the kids out and whoever needed help and stuff, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Village chief and divide us off the track and go in and have a little tea with him and stuff in his little dirt hut and, you know, so it was, uh, it was interesting. The mountain yard people. Oh, okay. Yeah, mountain yards over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nice people, I don't think they, I didn't think they, they didn't like the North Vietnamese, I don't think they liked us either, but I mean they got along with us good, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, that was my first firefight. We went out to, to help some, uh, convoy with tanker trucks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, so uhm, so we were chasing these guys, I don't know how many there were, you know, through the, after this, they ambushed the convoy and stuff, we were chasing them down through the jungle, and uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty thick in the jungle and stuff and it's, you know, high brush and trees and, and, uh, so we broke out and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They tried to keep the flame track kinda in the center of things, so it kinda semi-protected and whatever, but I ended up on the flank.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the left flank when we came out of the jungle, you know, cause you get in there, you get lost and you're looking around.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, cause there's a lot of tree and high brush. Okay, you know, head high or, you know, track high brush and a lot of trees.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We broke out into this opening, and I was on the flank, and we're looking across, and it was a big rice paddy, and then there's another section, a jungle beyond that. And, Brett and I kinda look at each other and we're going, oh, they couldn't have made a cross there that fast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And just like that, we'd turn the track back towards the jungle front and RPG hit my track right in the ass and, and then, uh, a couple of guys got blown off the top. Red was still on the 50. I was on a 60 and it's just instant training jumps in, you know, and I saw the three guys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That shot the RPG, you know, and, uh, just trying to 50 or 60 on him and red trying to 50 over there and, and then by that time everybody else had turned back towards the jungle and started leveling it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Recon outfit that I ran with, uhm, we had like five tracks. Each track had, uh, three fifties on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, my track, the track I was on had 150, 260s off, off either side, or 160 off either side. So, it would be like, the six tracks would be like a line company opening fire. You know, the line company was, you know, 18 tracks or whatever. I don't know how many tracks there were in the line company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we had a lot of firepower. A lot of firepower.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 60 out of the mount and jumped off the back and was still firing it, you know, towards the guys and stuff, so yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He did, yeaah, red shot, yeaah. Just to, just to encompass, you know, he shot way up over the top of the jungle and a big circle just to make sure, you know, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, it is. Yeaah, it is. It's devastating, but, uh, a man's always been afraid of fire. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we had a base camp. I had my own little, you know, your underground bunker and stuff, you know, cause we took a lot of artillery at night and, you know, the rocket fire and everything. So we had a little underground bunkers and that was, that was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, Anlok was a good place. Well, it was the only place I knew at the time, so it had to be a good place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, not a whole lot of creature comforts. Creature comfort was a bunker. Yeaah, yeaah. And that was comfortable. Yeaah. Yeaah. So, you know, and then, uh, we...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I don't know, I don't think they were, but I could be wrong, you know, copy on that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Semi-friendly, we didn't get in contact with them too much. We would, we were ready, at that point, after that, that first firefight, I mean, there was, there was, uh, a multitude of other ones.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I landed on the, yeah, I landed the 15th and then I think it was May 2nd, April 15th I landed and then May 2nd was the first fire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, definitely, definitely. Yeah. We were a lot better off than a lot of folks that were on the ground and stuff. So, um.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One thing about, uhm, if you do take it casually, they're out of the field pretty fast. So you're busy doing this, you know, Jimmy's gone or Johnny's gone or, or, you know, you don't know until you get back to base camp, whether he made it or not. So yeah, they were pretty.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And only we were doing joint operations or something like that, not necessarily my guys. But, uh, I never lost anybody off my track. And, uh, the other tracks, maybe, maybe one, maybe two, it was very low.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Depending on where you were, I mean, we had minesweepers and stuff that would sweep 13, highway 13, you know, depending on which fire base they were at and, and, uh, they would sweep and we didn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My track, not my track, but the track I had, and then I got a new one. I'd given it to a friend of mine, Doug Dodge, and he hit a mine. Actually, the day I gave it to him, he went out on a submission. He had the other flame track.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was in front of us, in front of our column. But, uhm, yeaah, it's, uh, and then I saw a, uh, it was a M47 tank, we called it a duster, and it had, uh, 40 millimeter pom-pom guns on the side of it, and it was a mean machine, you know, and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He pulled out of our, our, uh, base camp down in, uh, Thunder 3 and, uh, before they swept the roads and he was, he was hauling ass and he didn't get hurt or anything, blew the tracks off, but he had a mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we, we ran into a lot of places like bunker systems and stuff that had wires in them, you know, for tele, for communications and things, you know, but, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the, the, the mines, I was in a situation where there were two tracks in front of me, we, we'd, we'd take this as another firefight we were in and stuff, we had the, we had the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I'm jumping around, let me know. Yeah, it's all good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had, uh, I guess they were the elite force of the South Vietnamese, a tiger group, or whatever they were, kind of their commandos and stuff. They threw them all on our tracks. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we went into this one area and we got bushed and there was nothing but RPGs flying through the air and, you know, machine gun fire and stuff and we suppressed that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then read in advance, you know, I mean, you get, you gotta think about that, but they just jumped off and they got in crossfires, ended up shooting themselves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But anyways, he talked about the, the, uh, uh, mines.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had captured this, this one kid and he was on the captain's track.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, so we were advancing, we were moving through, uh, past the area where the bunkers were. And, uh, the captain's track hit a mine. And we're just in Collins, the captain's track's here, we got the ammunition tracks, the second one, then my track. And so, he hit a mine. Blew the guy off, and he was sitting on the side and stuff, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyways, uhm, so the track in front of me, we're going, oh shit, they suckered us into a minefield of what they did, because they had these mines behind the bunker system and stuff. And, uh, so we got in there, the track in front of me, all he did was traverse just a little bit like that, bam, went off, went off.


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[Assistant] So I had a guy, I got down off the track and ground got in my track through its tracks, you know, cause we all went through a column and stuff, but yeah, it was pretty hairy.


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[Assistant] That's scary, I don't see how you guys did it, man. That was, that was, what I thought was scarier than what I went through, so.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, night times are kinda, you know, usually we hunker down at night and you set out your trip flares and claymores and all that.


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[Assistant] One night we did that and one of those trip flares went off and we thought everybody was back at base camp or back with us, you know, and we started firing.


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[Assistant] And these guys hunkered down behind a tree and they yelled and they go, whoa, whoa, it's us. You know, it's like, whoa, okay. I mean, the flare went off. I mean, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeah, that was scary. Kinda scary. We were chasing these guys, uh, and we got a call over the radio that says, hey, everybody stop.


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[Assistant] We're in a strike zone. I went, what do you mean a strike zone? He says, yea B-52s.


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[Assistant] And they said everybody can hunker down, get behind the track, you know, it's coming and boom, boom, boom. And you can see, I mean, we looked up in the sky and I was going, whoa. And there was like five B-52s and you could see all these, they're 500,000 pounders or something, they're coming down. And, um.


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[Assistant] I didn't get off the track. I mean, you know, it's a 16 ton track, you know. And what's it gonna do? And sure enough, boy, you know, a shockwave came and that track's rattling around and we're going, oh my god, you know.


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[Assistant] We saw the smoke first, and then the shockwave hit. You know, it was pretty intense.


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[Assistant] This particular time, you know, it was like one plane after another and you know, probably half hour, you know, 20 minutes, something like that for them all to end. I'm not sure, you know, it was there.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's not like, yeah. Then you go in, sweep the area, and we found some guys in there, you know, and we saw one guy, interpreter was talking to him and stuff, and he's bleeding from his nose and his ears and his eyes and...


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[Assistant] You know, the guy's, he's still alive, and he said all he interprets, so all he could do is every time one hit, he'd bounce in the air, then come back down. Another one hit, he'd bounce in the air again. So, yeaah, that was intense. We weren't that close, you know, like he was.


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[Assistant] No, uh, it was in a certain area or something like that, you know, then, you know, obviously we got the word, yeaah.


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[Assistant] My best friend, I mean, I, don't get me wrong, I mean, the B-52 strikes, they did their thing and, and we'd sweep areas, you know, we lost a track one time in a bomb crater, you know, that was overgrown and, you know, actually flipped and inside.


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[Assistant] And, uh, so, like I said earlier, Vietnam is a beautiful place, you know, if it wasn't for the war, it'd be great. And there was a lot of bomb craters.


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[Assistant] The Cobra, I gotta say is our pal. I know you guys had Cobras over there. You had the, what are the black, the Apache's and stuff. Yeah. But the Cobra pilots and stuff, they were pretty cool. They're pretty cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, bravest guys I know. They go into pretty close quarters. I mean, they come in, they used to come right behind us. We'd be in a firefight. They'd come in, you know, 50 feet over your head and rockets fired. It's pretty intense.


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[Assistant] Yeah, my track didn't have much room inside because of the napalm tanks and stuff. You know, the other 113s, they had plenty of room. They, they used to, I could only carry like


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[Assistant] 2,100 rounds of 50 on my track, you know, and they had 6,000 rounds of theirs, you know, so.


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[Assistant] It is, it is, you know, and, and I was, we used to play with it every once in a while, it was funny. You should mention that, because at the end of shooting it, you could, because it's gas, you have igniters, and then you have raw gasoline.


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[Assistant] And, uh, so I used to blow out these, I don't know what they have, I might have a picture in there. Uh, big billows of flame used to roll out, you know, because they used to pop it and then let off, you know. And, uh, we had a chemical guy come up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To check out the tracks and stuff. And, uh, I was telling him what I was doing and he goes, you do what?


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[Assistant] I go, yeaah, you know, after empties and stuff, you know, you can roll out this big, I mean, as big as this room. And, ball of fire. And, uh, he goes, don't ever do that again.


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[Assistant] I go, why? Because the pressure is, because I didn't know that much about hydraulics and pressure. I learned real quick.


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[Assistant] It'll suck the flame back in, and it'll blow the tanks out. I go, woah. So after that, it was like, the track lasts for like, I mean, if you've powered it on, it's like 32 seconds of, of,


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[Assistant] Alright, so once the RPG is ignited, you have that rod that comes out, and it just went through the back end and out. So it did it through and through.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so you had shrapnel and I can show you a picture of all the ammo that I had in the back, there's all blown up. And it scarred the tank. And, uh, went out over the top of the track, you know, on the right hand, right rear side. And, uh, yeah, we were just lucky.


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[Assistant] Tanks? The big ones? Or even the trucks that you drove? Um, the mud and stuff was kind of tough. Yeaah. It was tough. They took our neutral steer. We didn't have that. We just had the laterals and stuff to use. Because the neutral steer, you got one track going one way and one track going the other.


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[Assistant] Got hit in the eye, that was it. You know, it wasn't like I got shot or, you know.


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[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. I know. Absolutely.


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[Assistant] Yeah, everything you own, would you dig in at night?


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[Assistant] Most of the, uh, re-contracts had five guys on it. Uh, you had a driver, main gunner, two other guys had four guys. And at first mine was like that. And, uh, so we had four, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Each day was different. Uh, we would have missions that we would go on. And sometimes we would get hit, sometimes we wouldn't. And those missions would just be going into an area and checking it out.


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[Assistant] It was an individual thing. I mean, it was not an individual like myself or anything, but I mean, as a group, you just, you know, go where they told you to and do what you could. Yeah, it was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On that respect, yes. Yeah. But I mean, it was a big picture like the whole country and stuff. No, I didn't, we didn't think too much about that, but our individual things. Yeah. Okay. We, we know there's a bunker complex over here. We're going to go into it. You know, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'd plan that strategically. I mean, you have people out there, we have lurps and stuff, you know, that would alert us of certain areas, hot spots or.


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[Assistant] Intelligence would come down and say, okay, there's a thousand troops coming down through the Michelin, or there's a thousand troops coming out of the highlands, or there's a hundred troops over here, you know.


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[Assistant] That gets your, your blood pumping because we're only six tracks.


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[Assistant] Well, we had other, we worked with the 11th Cav and the, I think it was the first 28th or something that worked with us. We worked with other companies too, you know, they would utilize us to go help them or, uh, they would help us or, you know, we were


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's when we were like a ready reactionary force, you know, you'd go out and a base camp got hit, you know, in the middle of the night. So you're up at two o'clock in the morning trying to gather all your troops and stuff out of there.


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[Assistant] Bunkers to run a road down to some base camp that's eventually gonna get either overrun or, you know.


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[Assistant] They're blowing through the wire and they're coming inside the compound and stuff. So we go in and reinforce that.


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[Assistant] Try to figure out where you, the area they're coming in through, you know, they use a Bangalore torpedoes and stuff to blow holes in a wire and, and they, they run on through and it's, you know, then okay, you're going to concentrate in that area. I know. So if a few of them get through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They get through it. I mean, you have other infantry on the ground and stuff that they're dug in, you know, they're taking care of themselves. So they kind of know what's going on. It's kind of like, you don't know everything that's going on, but you can see around you what's happening. So, uh, you try to diffuse that.


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[Assistant] They had in, in, yeaah, yeaah, uh, our longer missions and stuff, they'd, they'd, they'd do a little stand down and, you know, for three days or something, you know, go drink yourself silly and swim in the pool and, and. Where would you go for that?


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[Assistant] You know, I don't know exactly where it was. It was someplace in the country. It was like down at, uh,


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[Assistant] Yeah, not much. You know, I mean, I went to Thailand and I went to Australia. You know, that was my big R&R's and stuff, you know, but, uh, you know, a few people go to Hawaii.


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[Assistant] When we communicated with our people back here, it was usually by letter tape, you know, a cassette tape. And, uh, they'd talk and we'd talk and send it in the mail and stuff, you know. And so the guys that left and went to, uhm,


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[Assistant] See like their loved ones and stuff like in Hawaii and stuff when they came back their heads not, you know, it's not there. Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, Johnny ain't got the gun. Yeah, no, it's it's it's not a good thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you had your quiet time and stuff. You could listen to the cassette, you know, and at least hear the voice or you get a care package or something, you know, it's got some good cookies in it from home or something like that. So yeah, you take time in your bunker, whatever, you know, and you relax and you do that. But no, as far as,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Running down to the Mars station, which I guess they had a Mars station somewhere in Vietnam, you know, where you could make a phone call back to the states. I mean, I never did.


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[Assistant] But, uh, you know, a few people did, just, just by telephone. But now today, yeaah, like you said, I mean, it's like...


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[Assistant] The guys that I ran with, uh, they're a pretty tight group. I don't think as tight as you Navy SEALS guys are, but, you know, uh, all of us had a different story in life and, and, uh, but as far as getting the job done that we were out to do, we did a pretty good job, I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It could have been less than that, but I mean, anytime is a long time, you know, when you're spending the night. There was just one time when we were traveling and we were having supplies hard to keep up with us and stuff, you know, so it was.


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[Assistant] You know, the water, you know, the fuel, you know, you ended up bathing in bomb craters and things like that. And then you don't know where you're going. I was a lousy map reader over there because everything was flat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My drivers and stuff were, I went through quite a few drivers. I mean, not that they, they just went on to do something else. I mean, that was kind of their starting point.


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[Assistant] And, uh, they drove for me, but you could tell, I mean, I had one driver, he just jumped out of the hatch we were getting fired at and stuff, he jumped out of the hatch and I was like, get back in, dude. I'm not driving it, I'm on my 50, you know, and we're moving out of the area, because we're getting away from what was happening because we regroup and go back in.


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[Assistant] And he goes, oh, I can't do it. And he's throwing up and, you know, he's scared. And he's scared. And a lot of guys are scared, you know. And, uh,


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[Assistant] Mostly the drivers because they're, they're kind of confined, you know, and, and, and, uh, we're kind of freewheeling with the fifties and the sixties off the sides and stuff. So, uhm, yeaah, you jump down and say, you know, get back in the track, boom, smack upside the head and you get, you know, you get in and then you leave.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then maybe you go back to base camp and say maybe that's not the guy for, for this mission or these missions, you know, so you go on and do something else.


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[Assistant] That's horrible. Uhm, you, you take care of those guys. You know, so you can get them back to base camp or whatever, you know, and then, or they overcome, you know, what, what was bothering them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rose is a perfect example, uh, this kid from Des Moines, uh, good, nice young kid and stuff, you know, but you couldn't shoot somebody one day and, and, you know, so I, I grabbed the gun right out of his hand and shot the guy, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that was just one incident, and we, we ran into some pretty heavy-duty guys, and, and, uh, they took out a track right in front of me, and, and they were in a bunker, and they were, they were doing some damage. And, uh, Rose just got, he froze. Well, he froze, you just can't do that.


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[Assistant] He mellowed out a little bit, and uh, he ended up being a pretty good driver, you know. So, I mean, he got over that, I think. Uh, but again, that driver moved on.


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[Assistant] And you're not better than they are, you know, and, and, you know, that was pointed out to me one time by a, by a Colonel, and, uh,


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[Assistant] You live with these guys, you live on the track with them, you know, you live in the groups, the sergeants, you know, we'll get together and we'll have meetings and stuff, you know, and the guys will be out on the tracks cleaning, whatever they're doing. Uhm, we happen to be filling sandbags one day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Got my shirt off, fillin' sandbags, you know, my guys, actually he was one of my drivers, just holdin' a bag and fillin' it. And this Colonel, and he was in, uh, communications.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There he is. He says, Sgt. Hawk, come here. Oh, shoots. Okay. And so I went in and says, hey, uh, he goes, you see that shade over there? I go, yeah, you'll go sit down in there and watch your guys fill sandbags.


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[Assistant] I'm going, woof, woof. I'm going, I, you know, these guys are, you know, part of me. Because it doesn't matter. You just sit in the shade, watch them do it.


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[Assistant] And he says, if you, if you want to fill sand bikes, you know, I can make it so you can do that. And he was going to take rank from me, you know.


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[Assistant] His point was because I was a sergeant and they were privates and they should be doing the work and you're not.


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[Assistant] Supposed to be, you're supposed to be watching them do the work. I'm going, it was hard for me. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] They knew, they knew what was going on.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I had great leaders too. You know, I mean, there's people we can look up to and we had this one, uh,


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[Assistant] Like the commanders and stuff, the captains, lieutenants and the...


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[Assistant] From there, he was, I don't want to say he was the last survivor, but I mean he was one of those that didn't get sniped. And he became the leader of our great guy. Great guy. And, uh, but,


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[Assistant] Literally I didn't want to, much want to go, because I knew it was going to be a real cluster. And anytime you do run roads at night,


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[Assistant] Uh, without knowing exactly where you're going or what you're doing, you know, and, uh, they were just gonna go out and search and destroy and see what they could run into. And I've been there a while, so I'm going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Problem with that was, and I did, I kinda overstepped the sutenants authority a little bit, and I talked to my captain, I mean, I just, like, I'm gonna look. You know, by the book,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The flame track's supposed to stay inside the compound at night. That's just, uh, somewhere I read it or something like that. He wanted me to go with him. And, uh, I don't know, so I talked to my captain anyways, I didn't, I didn't go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't have to go. They went out and they came back and


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[Assistant] They bumped one guy off, you know, on a hill someplace, you know, he ended up walking back into base camp and the other guy broke his arm with a tree limb, you know, you don't see it night too well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, but he got back at me. He goes, okay, so you're gonna be protected at night. And not necessarily protected, but I mean, you're inside the compound. I ended up, I had to take my two 60s off.


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[Assistant] My two guys that were on those sixties left, and all I was left with was my 50 cal, the flame, and my driver. So I'm going, woah.


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[Assistant] That wasn't a good idea. You know, but it could have been worse if we'd gone out on a mission. You know, I don't, I don't know. Anyways. So later on in uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My time there, I became resupply sergeant in the field. This is kinda after, you know, we've been through quite a few firefights and stuff and they said, okay, it's time to slow down a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I became resupply sergeant, but it was resupply in the field. So I was still running with the same guys I was with.


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[Assistant] Except I get to fly a shithook back and forth to someplace else to pick up fuel and food and stuff and then deliver it to my guys.


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[Assistant] Oh, unfortunately that lieutenant's outfit got fuel last, they got food last, they got, you know, it's kind of chicken shit. I shouldn't really have done anything like that, but I was going like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Took weapons away from me, yeah? I mean, that's my livelihood out there. You know.


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[Assistant] Important. There was no more SED in at night after that mission though. Well there you go.


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[Assistant] I took care of these guys. It made it look like he was gonna get the last stuff. I'd never do that to anybody. Yeah, no, you took care of him.


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[Assistant] Made a little point. Mr. Rubber Plantation was exciting. So we're cruising one day, we're coming back to base camp. And we're all in a column, we're just cruising along normal like.


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[Assistant] And the lead track takes a couple sniper rounds.


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[Assistant] You know, we're going, whoa, and we're coming from the hillside up here. So, we pull in a little half shoe, you know, and just let go.


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[Assistant] 1850 calibers. Or 17, whatever it is. Up on the hillside. It's all Michelin rubber plantation. It's half up in there.


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[Assistant] And then it, it quieted down. You know, nothing's coming back. We're going, okay, you know, things are over. I got a quarter of my eye, and down the road I can see dust coming down there, and here's a red, white, and blue Ford Bronco.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He goes over and talks to the Colonel. He's Colonel McKenzie here. And uhm, Colonel jumps off the track and stuff, and this guy's sitting there and he's doing like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He jumps back in, he's got his little plantation worker with him too.


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[Assistant] He jumps back in his, his Bronco and he takes off and I walk away and criminalizes.


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[Assistant] He goes, well, we pay $1500 a piece to that guy for those trees. And a 50 caliber hit that tree and blew the tree down. And it bleeds the rubber out. So I'm going, oh, that's a good gig.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They had this thing though, because there was a lot of movement down through the plantation, you know, of troops and stuff. So they came out with this idea about, okay, we'll have red zones and green zones. Red zone, anybody inside the red zone, one click square, right? And anybody in the red zone, you know, that's free fire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Green Zone, no. Because you have the plantation workers, you know, stirring the pot and stuff. Well, they used to melt right into the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we get workers that we've seen before that are in red zones. And we're going, this is not going to work out good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got early out to go back to school. Uh, a company clerk one day came out in the field, he's delivering checks and, or money and whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Broke my mom, by mail, and sure enough she registered me at the college, at Grisman College. And so I got out a little bit earlier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think things are slowing down, yeaah. Things are slowing down. Yeaah, a little bit, so they want to get guys out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wish I knew his name. I wish I knew his name.


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[Assistant] We were, we got in the shit a little bit and, uh, he was a CO, a Conscious Objector, and a hell of a medic, rabies guy I ever knew. And, uh, one day we got in the shit and he was riding on my track and he picked up a weapon and started firing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, to save his ass, you know, and ours, you know, and, uh, but he never did it again. Never do it again.


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[Assistant] Yeah, they were puffing up out of the bush pretty good and, uh, and, you know, I didn't have any control where they were or anything, you know, you see you guys over here, okay, you can probably go over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were starting to hit us from the, from the rear and uh, he happened to be there. And uh, so he picked up the 60 and started having at it.


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[Assistant] One that serves, but he doesn't want to kill anybody. He doesn't want to shoot, he doesn't want to carry weapons or anything. I mean he wouldn't even carry a .45, he'd carry a medic bag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But stop my bleeding. Oh yea, of course. Yes, yes, yeaah. And he was good at that, yeaah.


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[Assistant] We were tailing some guys that were surveyors or something like that and pulling security forms and stuff. We were coming back and I was on Battalion Radio and, uh, this is after we got, sorry, we got overrun on Th-Thunder 3 a few days later.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, so we're cruising down the road, and I see this guy, and we had what they called Chuhoy back there, and we meant they give up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and so he's Chuhoy and he's got, you know, mantled ears across his chest and stuff. You know, he's in loincloth and he was part of the 30 that hit our base camp the three, two nights before that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, I was laughing to call him. I was on Battalion Radio and I was trying to get a hold of my guys on the company and, and I'm on Battalion. I'm like, hey, that guy's already open, mama, I need help out here, you know. So anyway, we pulled over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the mud, off the side of the road, and he's sitting in his little saddle on this hill.


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[Assistant] And so I got down, went up, took the bandolier off and stuff, and he said something, he was talking, he was yelling in the back, and I was going, oh, shoot, there's gotta be somebody else back there, right? And, uh, so I had, I think it was Tuggle, and I said, hey, keep an eye on this guy here, you know, and he,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They had him. And so I'm looking up over, I go up over the hill and here's this guy laying on the ground. You got AK-47 beside him like this and he's laying on the ground. I'm, I'm going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I didn't shoot that guy, you know, and so the other guy, he goes, okay, well,


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[Assistant] Calf was blown off from his knee to his ankle with only his bone, you know, and I was like, oh no. So he left his AK on the ground and stuff, so I went over to him and, uh,


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[Assistant] I put them on my back because I was going to carry them out to the road on 13. By that time the medics would come out and stuff and my guy, couple of my guys on tracks and stuff were out too. And so I put them on my back and I carried them out and threw them in the back of my Jeep and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This other medic, grabbed him by the hair, stuck a .45 in the side of his head, I thought, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing, man?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the interpreter talked to him, and he says, yeah, you know, he's pointing to the sky.


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[Assistant] I go, what do you mean? Cause yeaah, cause you helped him. Stuff like that. I go, well okay, whatever the mentality is. That guy was a sergeant, uh, it was a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were a lot of times where they were reintegrated and depending on what area they were, they had come from and they'd find that out and then they'd, they'd, uh, you know, blend them back into the, the society that was there, I guess. I don't know. I never saw them again. So, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, there isn't, and a lot of the villages and stuff were pro-VC villages and stuff, and we knew that, and the daytime was fine, the nighttime, I don't want to go through there. I know, we had some, some girl, uhm,


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[Assistant] Get into our compound and once the gates were closed and stuff, they found her inside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she was from the village, which was a pro-VC village, and I don't know, they got some intel and stuff from her, and all that, and the next thing you know, the recon's mountain up, and they're gonna take her back to the village.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we pulled into this village, wish boned it, you know, make sure, and they kicked her out of the back of this track, threw her out of the bike, and she's yelling all the time, just, no, no, they'll kill me, they'll kill me, they'll kill me, I'm, woah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the interpreter goes, nah, it should be alright, you know. I was going, woah, okay, whatever. At that moment though, when we did, we pulled into this village and stuff, I saw this, what I thought was a head coming up over one of the little hoochies and stuff that they had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Almost fired, but, but didn't and ended up being a, like a palm frond or something, you know, popping up over the ridge of this, this hooch. So it was kinda, that was kinda scary.


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[Assistant] Uhm, no, actually the Colonel flew into where I was on.


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[Assistant] Uh, this other track, it was one of those command tracks that had a little bubble on top and stuff in there.


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[Assistant] Whatever, I don't remember, 114s or something like that, I think it was what it was. And, uh, Colonel came flying out there in his helicopter and stuff, and came in where we were staged, and he said, Sgt. Hall, there's your ride out of here.


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[Assistant] What are you talking about? He goes, no, he doesn't like sticking on the ground. It was a little loach, man. It was a great, great helicopter ride. And uh, he goes,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go. And I mean, I, I got a duffel bag and I started giving stuff away, my camera, my tape recorder and nothing, you know, and just grabbed what I could.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we're up in the air, treetop, heading to Dao Chiang, and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was it. I went back to base camp, got my stuff out of the locker, caught a ride on a, I don't know what it was, a caribou?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't remember. Anyways, anyways, got down to, down to Tonsinute, down to Saigon and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then finally we left and got on this, this World Airlines. I don't know, it was either Korean or Japanese or something like that. Yeah, they flew us home. Yeah, it was quick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They said, yeaah, I went to Frisco, but they, we got de-roasted in, in, uh, Oakland or something, I think it was, or whatever it was down there.


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[Assistant] And so they give you all your, all your stuff and you give them all your stuff that, that you had, and it's military wise. And they go, yeah, you can catch a cab out there at the airport. I said, okay, fine. Went out there, took a PSA flight back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, not too bad up there. San Diego and stuff. We had some hippie guys out front when I came out and I wasn't really too worried. Glad to be home and stuff. Saw my brothers and stuff. That's bad, you know, not spit on, but at my feet and, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wasn't the baby killer stuff. I forget what he said, you know, but it was like, you ignorant ass. And this, saw my brothers and stuff and took off.


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[Assistant] Oh, that's a funny thing too, cause, cause I went through NCO school, right, so they had track of all the sergeants and stuff that were in Vietnam.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You had to go through certain bungalows or buildings and stuff and I went through one and he goes, he gave me a name and he marked it off. He goes, oh, you're one of them that made it. I go, what do you mean? He says, yeah, you're on the list here. You made it. Okay, fine. I didn't understand what it was, but they were counting how many


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But no, there wasn't, there was no debriefing, or, or, you know, have a good time, or, you know, this is what you should do, or, and, uh, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, didn't know any different. How was I supposed to feel? I figured that happened to everybody. The only thing is that I had a family to go to. A lot of guys didn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that was a, yeah, that kind of blew that away. You know, take astrology, geometry, and whatever, and you get a class that's all mixed up, and that was just one for me. But I did get out. You know, what are they gonna do, send me back? So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I kind of chilled for a while, you know, and then I went to work with my dad at the, ehm, unemployment. I did get unemployment for a year, I think it was, or six months or something like that. That's another funny story, you know, the people at the unemployment, you know, ask you, well, what did you do in the military? Or, no, what do you want to do? And I go, I want to build wooden boats.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we don't have any, you know, wooden boat builders and, but they did in San Diego, but, and, well, what did you do in the military?


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[Assistant] And being a sarcastic little ass, I was, I said, well I kill people.


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[Assistant] You got any jobs for that? I was just being sarcastic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know what to say. But anyways, yeaah, I went to work for my dad and, uh, at the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Employment agency for a while. Then through that employment agency I got a job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, at a building material warehouse down in San Diego, Case Products. And I worked there for quite a while, for a little while. But I used to meet contractors and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, they came in there and they said, hey, you wanna work on a weekend? I said, yeaah. You know, and before you know it, you know, I was working in a cabinet shop and then after that, I was building houses and, and then, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I worked for the gas company, uh, in the eighties.


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[Assistant] And afternoons. And, uh, then I got the job at the ho- I quit that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I quit a lot of things during that period. Uhm, then I got the job at the Hotel Dell. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] I got married when I was 32, so it was like 30, I was 33 or something like that. And then I got divorced when I was 42.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, and people helping you and stuff, you know, and they go, cause I, I didn't, I was lost. I had, you know, after.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the divorce and stuff, you know, I was just wandering, you know, in my mind, and literally wandering. And uhm, then, I worked the Thunderbolt races for a long time, during the 80s, and a couple of those guys said, hey, you know, you gotta, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Try to go to the, uh, the, the Dell, you know, so I went down there and they go, what do you do? I said, well, I'm a carpenter. You know, I had been in the past and, oh, yeah, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they hired me for 10 bucks an hour. You know, I said, well, that's better than nothing. And it was, it was a good job. It was a good career move. Yeah. So good family down at the hotel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, go over the bridge, boom, your day's done, you know. It was like a little Disneyland. Then this kid, he came along and was over there too. Diligently doing his homework at 3.30 in the afternoon in the shop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got burnt by somebody or something like that, you know, and took some of his shapes and I don't really do that. But he says, you know what, I'll watch him in the water and then just check him out. And then it went from there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's kinda too bad people keep that inside them and don't share it. You know, their experience or their skills. I know. But you gotta, you gotta share it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 179 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.


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[Assistant] There was Shieldshiefson, scourge of many tribes, a wrecker of mead benches, rampaging among foes.


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[Assistant] As his powers waxed and his worth was proved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the end, each clan on outlying coasts beyond the whale road had to yield to him and begin to pay tribute.