[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, pretty important questions. It's kind of sad that when you fill it out so many times, it's commonplace. I remember the first time I filled it out, we mulled over these questions for so long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And by the end of the deployments, I mean, I'm like making dinner and I'm like, Oh yeah, that's fine. Yep. That's fine. Wait, change that. Cause she moved and she's not going to be able to get here in time. So make it this person. I mean, that's how it is, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's, there is some, there is gonna be some limitations and I don't know what they are, but we were able to donate Chad's brain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because he, he was stateside and you have to do it probably within 48 to 72 hours. I'm not quite sure what the timeframe is. And his brain was studied and that's how we were able to determine that he did have that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I don't know if it would be applicable if you're overseas because of travel time, et cetera. But if you were to add that on the Keiko form, that if you were killed, you would like your brain donated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is in no way to encourage anybody to take their life by any means. But either way, if you're a team guy and you get in a car accident and you die, fill in the blank.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you could also put on there or at least have a conversation with your person that you also want your brain donated, that would be a great extension of service.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we want people to take to the workout and that might look


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Different for a lot of people. You can go to your local gyms, jump on it, do it in your garage, find a buddy. We're hosting larger scale, what we call live events this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we're doing those in some we'll call like flagship cities. One of them is here in San Diego. So we're hoping maybe you might come and show up. November 6th, San Diego. It'll be at CrossFit Humanity. So not too far from here. I passed it actually on the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, it is, it is really, really cool. Um, so that's November 5th, November 6th, we're in San Diego. November 11th is going to be New York City. November 13th is going to be Virginia Beach, uh, my hometown and Jax.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Him doing step ups and he would do it in, you know, in the garage and just shorts in his backpack. He cut all the tags out of his gear, right? Ounces equal pounds, Sarah ounces equal pounds. So he knew what he was carrying, but he used a projector and he projected a concagua on the back of our garage door.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just think the more we do talk about it, the easier it is for someone else to say, me too. And so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to come out and talk about this all the time. And I've had, this week has been a very busy week for me. So I'm pretty, it's been hard, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have to believe that the more I talk about it and share Chad's story or share the story of other friends that have passed, took their lives.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That other people will start to speak up. At this Virginia Beach event, I had three people separately pull me aside and confide in me struggles that they had. I've had people reach out to me through social media, like long messages. I don't care. I don't care how long it is. I don't care how short it is. And I respond back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I, I think that it's slow and I think it's a trickle, but the potential for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This workout done around Veterans Day so we can talk about people's stories so that it might encourage someone else to say me too. Maybe all, if all they need to hear is that they're not alone and that someone else feels that too, maybe that's what someone needs and that's great.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, well I guess just to bring, just to make the point one more time, is that where we find the guys are very fragile.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm going to say fragile is in their transition time. So when people are separating from the military, maybe they didn't hit retirement. Maybe they've done 10 years and they're transitioning out or they're at retirement and now they need to transition to civilian life. That is a very.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For a seal, I'm gonna say that's a very delicate time for them. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would encourage families, peers to really be on the lookout for them during that time because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As we've talked so much about the brain and PTSD, there's also that loss of, of tribe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or at least they feel as though there is. And what we see is sometimes that increases the likelihood of, of maybe someone not making a really good decision. So I would just encourage people to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just be of the best support for those people during that period of transition.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, when Chad, uhm, when Chad was close to 20 years, we were at the discussion of what do we do? You know, my dad served 26 years. His dad served somewhere about that. I can't quite remember.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the hard part is I, I really kind of hoped he would pick us. I thought, okay, we've done 20 years. Like we've done 20 years. Me, Sarah, Chad, Kinsley, Hudson. We've done it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said to him, you know, we talked about jobs and I just remember he looked at me and he said, I don't have any skills.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most of them are, are very intelligent, critical thinkers, analytical, problem solvers, think outside of the box, can make decisions quickly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is a lot of really great attributes that many organizations in the civilian world would want. And so again, just to speak to, I, you know, it's that loss of identity and it's like, I've been shooting guns and busting down doors. What else do I do?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely, and maybe a slightly different version of that is you can have a system that is a, you know, it's a critical system that you need, but it wouldn't be the difference between


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Returning home safely and not, but you'll spend so much time trying to resolve the problem that system is causing that it can lead you to focusing on that so much that you stop paying attention to other things and it'll lead you to a mishap when even though it could be a real problem, it should never lead you down the path of crashing or losing the airplane and what you really need to do is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ignore is probably the wrong word, but if you can't solve this, move on to something else and get the airplane back safely and people will devote 100% of their attention to that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the way to the point that they crashed an airplane as a result of it when it would not have caused a crash. It's kind of crazy. And that human element of the fixation I think is the word you use, the fixation on that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we call it CFIT, Controlled Flight Into Terrain, which means you're fully in control of the aircraft as you do it, as you hit that mountain. Because you are so fixated on something else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's not like, hey, I'm tumbling out of the sky. I'm trying to save this airplane. I hit the ground. It's like, hey, I'm flying perfectly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and like the worst versions of that is, uhm, they're all terrible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is, I'm, I'm, I'm in a dive, like I'm in a 45 degree dive. I'm diving down towards the target, which is what you're supposed to do. You're going to get it out there and you're going to dive down towards the target to help.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm going to focus on the display that makes sure that my targeting, my reticle, the aiming point is exactly where I want it. A little adjustment to keep, I'll keep adjusting that targeting point to be exactly where I want it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'll go through my minimum altitudes and I will fly straight into the ground all the while just focusing on that targeting point. And I'll never try to pull up. I'll never try to recover. I'll ignore warnings that say your altitude is getting low and pilots will fly directly into the ground working on something else and a perfectly safe effective flying. No problems at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think it's the same. I really do. I don't think, I don't think the personality profile, you know, or even just the motivational profile of, of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of people in the military is all that different. Certainly when I think about SEALs and pilots and as often as you and I kind of contrast those two types of people, there's a ton of similarity there and you know the different services in aviation have different sets of requirements and you know I think


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Marine Corps has the, the lowest, I guess, standard of academic excellence, uh, in terms like what you studied and how well you did. I mean, the old joke in the Marine Corps was, you know, if you got a 2.0 in underwater basket weaving, you could be a pilot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we don't really care what you studied. Now, you gotta have a college degree, and I think that does demonstrate some willingness and ability.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm not sure which is more important to get through a long term project that, hey, I'm going to dedicate four years of getting this degree. That demonstrates, hey, you've got some planning, you've got some interest, you've got some intellect, something that's going to reveal


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That you're, you are, have something that's going to be hard to do, you're going to be willing to do that. You getting a 4.0, you know, in a, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Aerodynamics versus a 2.0 in PoliSci, we don't really care.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was kind of the Marine Corps' general approach. A little bit different for the other services.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I was kinda laughing and kinda thinking about this thing from a larger standpoint of these great military leaders that maybe didn't have the best records academically. I mean the two thoughts that I had is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The academics in the military aren't that hard. They're not that hard. You know what I mean? Like, you don't need to be a genius to get perfect scores on your tests.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think the ones that don't do that well academically, that are, that still really do well, there's probably a piece in there, they're thinking like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is dumb. This is a waste of my time. What's the minimum grade requirement? Cool, I'm gonna get that. And that actually reveals some level of intelligence. I'm not gonna waste my time on all this stuff that I don't really want to be doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's some really good leaders that didn't do so hot. And then there's some guys that just were absolutely brilliant on paper that were terrible. That is not a stretch for me at all to picture that in aviation or anywhere in the military. I'm like, I think I know who those guys are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thinking about it from a leadership standpoint and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The recognition that, that leadership requires a whole bunch of different things. Not just being smart and taking a test.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or being good at communicating. It's the recognition that it requires so many different things. None of these, these profiles that he just revealed are a big shock to me. I'm like, yep, yep, yep, those all make sense. Seals, pilots, everyone in between, and yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In aviation, is there a couple things that might incline you down that path? Like if you can naturally get a sense that they show you a diagram of an airplane descending, turning, and slow, and then you have to match it up, that some people's brains may be, oh, I can't see that as well as somebody else. Yeah, I can see that. And that's gonna account for a small part of it that might be good to know, but that by itself is, it's gonna


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's gonna have almost no influence in the long-term success of this person in his career in the military that I could identify relatively early on of what the spatial orientation of an airplane was in relation to the ground. Do you want that? Yeah, that's a good idea. I don't want someone who gets confused by that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if I outrank you, like the military, this whole military experiment, then I automatically win. I automatically win because I'll just shut you up because I'm now mad and I'm just going to resort to what I got as, hey, uh, why don't you just go back to your desk and let me, let me do some, let me, let me lead for a little while here since I'm in charge. And then you just kind of walk away and that's the end of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You started this whole part and you used a word and I think you pulled it from the book twice and then I think you said it once and I wrote it down was all this is a feature of the system. Like all of this is a feature and I think he was using it initially in this part of, and I'm just trying to paraphrase from what you said was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And how it isn't quite just the same bell curve of everybody else where you got some smart people, some, you know, middle of the road folks, maybe some other folks. And what I've been trying to-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Think in my mind about what that is, is kind of what you described as, what's unique about those people, those people have figured out how to navigate the system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This thing that we're all living in, because when you join the military, I don't care how smart you are or dumb you are, I don't care who or what you are, what rank, what service or where you came from. At the beginning, you're just trying to figure out how the system works. And if you figure out, go, oh, this class that I'm in, that Jaco's in charge of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the end, I get my choice of assignment strictly based on my GPA. Oh, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Guess what a lot of folks are going to do that figure that out. I'm going to get, I'm just going to worry about the, the great, uh, oh, Jaco's got this thing for drill. It's this thing. Cool. And so when you say, Hey, we're going to go drill. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And all of a sudden I kind of start maneuvering my way through the system to appeal to what I know is what you want. And I kind of wrote down some of the words of, of things that are, are appealing. Brute force is appealing. It's appealing. It sounds cool. You know what doesn't sound cool? Deception. Like I'm going to, I'm going to take an indirect approach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That doesn't sound cool. Uhm, caring about people doesn't sound cool. Being nice doesn't sound cool. Being an intellectual for the military, no. That, you know, blowing things up sounds cool. Being an intellectual doesn't. And if I can figure out early on what is going to appeal to you, whoever my boss is, or the school is, or the intent is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What the system wants and what the system wants is whoever's in charge, that thing that appeals to them, which is things like, what would you rather have? Someone who, who uhm, a pragmatic thinker who's willing to, to uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I suppose I, I'm gonna play the long game, I'm gonna think strategically, I'm gonna keep my ego in check, I'm gonna consider that I might be wrong, and I'm gonna, uh, move slowly in this direction until we come to the logical conclusion, or I'm just gonna attack this target and run it over. And the ones that figure out the system,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And how to navigate that, it makes sense that at the top, there actually is a different bell curve of people than those of us at the beginning who actually, some of us don't figure out how to navigate that system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yeah, obviously I do agree with that. And I think that's why there is a little bit more of a contrast at the top than there might be elsewhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you're looking at the types, the different types of people and the contrast to his point usually doesn't reveal itself until you get to this and he illustrates all these catastrophic things and you're looking back and thinking, how could someone be in that position?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's two different types of people that can get to that place. Now, the ones that are doing it, like you said on their merits, they still have to be doing a good job. You can't not know how to maneuver the system and be terrible at what you're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, you can find your way to kind of maneuver up that ladder, maneuver inside of that system, and, and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be in that category of people that sometimes will go, oh well he's a general, he must be awesome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is how this person got there, but you won't see that. It won't be revealed as to what this person is until he's in one of those situations. And I think that contrast that he's alluding to is a little bit different there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is more stark, because at the very beginning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get my check in the block. And that piece when you talk about the leadership, all I'm thinking is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He actually cares about the people. He actually cares about the people around him. And so that maneuver to gain the influence is, is, is by design to be able to help people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some people around you know. People around you know for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this, this thing that you've mentioned in the past probably isn't exactly a fit here, but that idea of, hey, if you're so smart, why aren't you winning?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's a little joke in the military, too, that at each level you move up, it's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That there's some, some truth to it, which is, Hey, you got promoted. Yeah. All the good guys got out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I'm glad these two guys bailed, because I would have been competing with them, and I don't know if I would have made the cut if they stuck around. But they're left with me, so I'm gonna get that promotion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he wants to start talking, and we're forced to sit here and listen to him, and it's not just what he's saying, it's also the time at which he's saying it and you're just thinking, dude, okay, I guess we're gonna sit here and listen to him talk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Totally, and he, you know, he, he, you did that list earlier and I, the one that was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Coming back to as you're talking about in the hard part about as you can, you can, I know what he's going to say before he's even saying it now. You know what's coming when he's describing this is here's the plan. Jack goes down in the front, sends me a report, go, Hey boss, things are a mess. Things are a mess down here. And I'm like, no, they're not, they're not that bad. They're not that bad. We're fine. We need it. We're just going to keep doing this. You're like, Hey, listen, it's gotten much worse. And.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was actually driven by what you just described as, you know, the term self doubt doesn't have like this positive connotation, but it's like, oh, hey, I bet you there's a bunch of things I don't know. So you know what I shouldn't do? Overcommit. Which was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Based on you having a reputation of being decisive, which people can equate to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The opposite of self doubt. I'm so secure in my, my decision making process that I know the outcome and this is the course that we're going on. It's exactly opposite of what you're doing, which is the incremental piece and go, Hey, I got some feedback. Yeah, boss. Here's some feedback. This was a, this blew up in our face. We ran into a brick wall. Uh, three vehicles are down and we can't keep, keep going. And you're going to go, Oh, we need to do something different right now as opposed to, Hey, just keep going. We're sticking to the plan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's so counterintuitive to think the connection between never being wrong or never having to, or rarely having to admit that you're wrong isn't because you're right all the time. It's because you never entrench yourself in a position and you know, the saying could be, could be said for why you and I


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever the better word is for argue, for disagree. Like, how often do you and Jaco disagree on a plan? It's like, well, almost never. Like, oh, you must be perfectly on a lot of everything. No, I just, I haven't predetermined the next 37 steps that we're gonna do, neither has he. And we'll move and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll do it his way sometimes, we'll do it my way, we'll get somebody else's input, and none of us are committed to an outcome. And the reason why we don't disagree on what we should do is that neither one of us come in with the conclusion of what we should do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And how counterintuitive that is, is the idea that the more committed you are, the less you will, uhm, the less you'll admit that you're wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in the military, I'm sure it's the same way with you, that there is still an unspoken hierarchy. There is a, there is a pecking order that isn't written down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there's a roster that we don't write on the board and go, okay, you know, Jocko's one, Echo's two, Dave's three. It doesn't say that, but everybody kind of knows. And if it's not pure, there's at least some groups, some catty, like a couple guys here, a couple guys here. And everybody knows it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the system can offset that a little bit by creating, well, it utilizes that, that, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I do whatever I can do, I maneuver, and actually I get promoted, or I get a task, or I get actually some deliberate hierarchical authority. Right. And now I can kind of like, exact my revenge, and yes, yes, cause I, hey, hey, we all know where I was, but that was unwritten, but I'm in charge now. Yeah. And then the psychology of that power, which sort of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It fixes the problem with the unspoken hierarchy. You know, those baboons don't have a chart, they just know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's nothing that number seven's gonna do to go, well, I got a formal piece over here that sort of allows me to impose my will on you. And I mean, I've been writing things down, self-esteem, ego, the 20 different versions of that word that he's used so far in this book, which all comes down to the insecurity, all those different words that he's using. The military delivers some authority.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think so. I mean, I've heard that term a thousand times. I can't say that I know for sure, but I think that's right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had, uhm, anodized and non-anodized. Anodized is the permanent thing that like is always brass or shiny. You are not allowed to, you have anodized gear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So all of your stuff, your belt buckles, everything, none of it could be anodized. That was reserved for like some other people. And so you had to buy the unanodized and then shine it to make it look like it was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes. And I remember that time, I mean, you had your set of starched inspection ready cams and when you brought them in, they would ask you the level of starch that you want. Yes. And you'd say galactic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And not to like, over do it on this, but that piece you said is actually really important and using that example is a good example because the new camis the Marine Corps got, not only were they not starched, they were designed to be washed and not even ironed. Which was somebody going, hey, ironing your camis


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wrote it down, I was like, this guy is such a good, he called it the bomb to the tender ego. Like, it's such a great, it's such great medicine for that, like, oh!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is such good medicine for me, you know, for my tendencies, where they came from. And then just like you said is, and I made the reference of the blue angels from a, from a, they're literally called the flight demonstration team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wish that the disconnect was talking about something else, but the end state of all this is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Real people die at the end of all these stories, which is the worst part about it. And then, and then the ultimate manifestation of that is, is World War One of like, we're gonna get online just like we did on the prey deck. We're literally gonna get in a line and move in a line.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The psychology of, do you want someone who doesn't like dirt or someone who does like it to be able to deal with it? And the irony that's inside that is what it attracts is the person that can't handle it, which is the thing that's going to get you killed. God, it's hard to listen to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And inside the reaction to the dichotomy you just described is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The less balanced you are with that reaction, the more extreme your reaction is, the worse things are going to be. And if the system reinforces it and the person goes in that direction,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That the inability to react to the dichotomy by being balanced is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, every time you said, uh, that bummed me out for some reason, that's always been funny to me. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's kind of nonsense. It's total nonsense. It's called Brasso. Oh, Brasso. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, military is always an option for kind of floating around when you're young or whatever. The one thing that stood out to me was like having to wake up at a certain time. It's weird. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's just think of the smart thing to do on this path that we're on. To improve ourselves. We're working out, we're reading. Uhm, so through these workouts and trying to improve ourselves physically and mentally, we might need some help. Some supplementation that provides benefits. Do we all need help? Maybe, maybe not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey, we're all gonna benefit from benefits. So one of those benefits that we can have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's from a new energy drink that we have. Choco Displinko. Healthy!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they're not healthy, backend detriment. This one, healthy, and tastes good, and gives you energy. All upside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's one of those no-brainers, for sure. And it tastes good. Bunch of different flavors. Mango's the best, my opinion. Not Jocka's opinion. But, an opinion is one of these things that, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I guess, I mean, I don't know, I mean it seems, I have no idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, but I guess, and not to go too deep into it, what it, like, it's not like you're gonna-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, I'm saying they're all drinks, and they're all dr-drinking- Want a smoothie, want a drink.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's, that's my whole point. It's under, it depends on the context and what you're, you're experiencing, the flavor. So Jim's saying, hey look, I like Jocko Palmer. I do. I like mango better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course. But either way, it doesn't matter because each person's opinion is individualized to them. Doesn't matter. You could like, talk about more level, literally level 10. Like, it cannot get any better. It has no bearing on my influ- or my opinion on what I like. Well that's where I'm at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep, so yeah, again, different flavors. Get the one you want. Try them all. That's what I would say. Cause the mango seems more risky cause it's exotic. Orange, not so much. See what I'm saying? True.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you might be like, oh, that's a safe one, you know? Yea. But, hey man, with great risks come great rewards, as a wise man once said. Possibly. Also, on this path, you want to look out after your joints and immunity. Joint Warfare Super Krill Oil.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're gonna play any, you don't have to play any balancing game, you just go. As much monk as you want. Straight up. You want five scoops of monk?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get it man, get it. Five scoops of what? That's a hundred grams of protein. A hundred something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's good. Also, jujitsu. We're doing jujitsu. To know jujitsu or to not know jujitsu, which one is more beneficial?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's true. So, when you get your gi, you get the best gi that you possibly can. Made in America, by the way. An Origin gi. Go to originusa.com for these things. You can get rash guards on there as well. Some hoodies on there. Also, from Origin USA. American made denim jeans.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Got my Delta 68 jeans. My favorite jeans.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they look good too, by the way, so here, and you know, maybe you care about this, maybe you don't, but here's the thing, factually this is what happened. So put mine on, I had an event to go to, called the muster, might have heard of it, wore the Delta 68 origin jeans to the muster. They're pretty new too. And I wore a white t-shirt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My wife likes me in a white t-shirt. Don't ask why, it's just how it is. Let's just know that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's all you gotta know, bro. Delta 68s. Hey, functional, made in America, look good, uhm, you know, durable, all this stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, she'll probably won't look at you at all. Oh, hopefully won't look at you. But she thinks I look good, so maybe if you're married, or have a girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever, they'll think you look good in them too. They look good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Native America. Even the thread itself. Native America.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go to jocostore.com, that's where you can get this stuff. Uhm, some good stuff on there, some new stuff on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some jujitsu stuff on there. You made a jujitsu section. Section, you know, uhm, where look, if you do jujitsu, and you kinda wanna represent the path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And jiu-jitsu, kind of a hybrid representation scenario, you can do


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well actually, I'll kinda in a way do you one better. Probably not even 5 years when you think about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you said, because you just said they, they, they might figure it out because of videos in UFC or whatever. The whole existence of UFC is because of Horian Gracie. So it's, they wouldn't have had the UFC. Straight up, UFC straight up wouldn't exist. Cause that's all it was, essentially, demonstration, demonstration of how effective Jiu Jitsu is in a real fight. That's essentially what UFC 1 was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, man, that wouldn't exist. No one would do it. It'd be probably relegated to little secret sex in like Brazil. Little secret dojos doing their secret art. Just rolling everybody up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep, bunch of stuff on there. We have a subscription situation as well called the Shirt Locker. It's a new creative. I was at the muster. You might have heard of it. Uhm, and every once in a while, well, let's face it, every day I was wearing a different shirt from the Shirt Locker.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Every single shirt that I wore someone asked, hey, where did you get that shirt? Including people who weren't even there for the muster.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, where'd you get that shirt? The support SOG? That's a good one. A lot of people ask about that one, it's a good one. Uhm, nonetheless, good shirts on there. So yea, you get a new shirt every month, creative designs, kind of new, new designs, creative, outside of the box designs, but relative. It's been very awesome. Good feedback on that one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, more than it bothers me, you're just really, really happy about it. That's more the contrast, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, psychological warfare, if you want to hear, no no no, not if you want to hear, if you're struggling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To get past the moment of weakness and you NEED to hear someone with integrity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Name Jocko. Tell you why, hey, this moment of weakness is fleeting and it's insignificant. If you want to hear that in whatever way, Psychological Warfare won't get down. It's an album with tracks of him helping you pass these moments. It sucks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the numbers though. Cause that's- Well you got SDV team 1 and SDV team 2. So you're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, you know how you thought, you mentioned how like you'll run into people and you'll actually have like a little bit of a connection with them? Is, do you think that, like you know how you share stuff openly more than a lot of people I think? Do you think that that is an indicator that you're doing the right thing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, cause sometimes like, okay, so, let's say if you're in the public, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not, not necessarily my experience, but, you know, but the fact that like a random quote unquote random stranger can come up to you and then you guys can relate like on a significant like kind of deep level or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it always, like, you always struck me as someone who's like, so authentic. And I think that, that, that is a big indicator that you're doing the right thing. If you can really like, relate to people who you've never met before. That quickly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, and he, and it felt like he was talking about something very specific, like, like, basically, it's essentially like, take action, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rather than just going around in your head. And Tim Ferriss I think, yeah Tim Ferriss said that too, where essentially the different


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Way to say it, but the exact same thing is like get out of your head and into your body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unless there's a lot of stuff, yes, that you can follow up on, that we can follow up on with you. And I will be looking forward to that. Nonetheless, in the meantime, bro, we're all on this path together, I think. I feel like it. I feel like we're all sorta, when we look up, we see other people on the path with us. Good feeling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good feeling. So, I was doing some thinking about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These, okay, so you, when you created Jocko Fuel, you essentially made the path pretty luxurious. Cause think about, when you think about like how it was versus how it is now, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so the, the way to put it, as far as how you called it, one time, couple times, is... Efficiency. Efficiency, yes, exactly right. Like, it's kinda like the logistics part of a, of a battle or a war or something, right? Where it's like, oh yeaah, you want these cool new shoes that comfort your feet, or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the first example I think of, but, you're like, no, it's not that I need to be coddled. My feet, like, if my feet are in good shape, I can do a lot more running, a lot more rocking, you know? A lot more marching. Yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See what I'm saying? So you kinda took that approach to the path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sure, yeaah. I think I got it from Fight Club actually, to be honest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think he said on the plane that one could make all types of explosives using


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ordinary household items. And then the other guy said, really? He's like, if one were so inclined. So it's like, I'm not saying me!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because, man, you- and I said this before where it's- it's baffling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How good we can communicate. But when you think about it, there's all kinds, there's the words you say, the tone, the body language, all that stuff is all conveying a certain message. So if you're like, hey, I'll tell you what you should do, is do this, and then there's all kinds of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, things that you imply when you say you. You don't really mean you should do this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't even know if I used that right, even right there for out of the gate, jamming it up. Anyway, if you're on the path with, you know, whether you with somebody on the path or by yourself, or you feel like you're by yourself, it's not always going to be easy. And to make you more efficient, we're going to decrease the beatings.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Increase the recovery so we can maximize gains. Best way I can put it at this point. Gains with Z. Sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, so. Modern English. Okay, so in muscle building, right? You have the catabolic state. You just mean gains?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have the anabolic state, right? Catabolic essentially, there's a lot to it, but is the breakdown of the muscle. Rest, nutrition induces an anabolic state. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Upsight, we wanna maximize anabolic state on this path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Catabolic stays part of the process as well. But that trans- transition from catabolic to anabolic, we want that to be the luxury. We want that to be the efficient part of it. Am I right? Catabolic. No bruh. Anabolic. Catabolic is bad. There you go. Either way. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, well, either way, we got some stuff for you. Alright, so, jock of fuel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's talk about discipline. The energy drink. New era. New era of energy drink. We no longer have to pay a price for enjoying energy drinks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, uh, gives you the boost, mentally and physically, and makes you more healthy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pure upside. Tastes good. Good for you. Uh, you're better off. Good for you mate. Yeah. It's the whole deal. So yes. In the can.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mango? Okay, this is just my opinion. Okay, I'll admit. Mango is the best one. Straight up. Factually.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Factually, in my opinion. Alright, either way, uhm, either way, also, for your joints, you don't want to have to worry about your joints.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Speaking of anabolic protein, it's part of the nutrition profile of gains, as it were. So, milk, additional protein in the form of a dessert, another one of these up, win-win-win scenarios, no downside. Upside, upside, upside. Tastes good. All upside. You know, all this stuff. Tastes good. Exactly. Is good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just upside, across the board. Exactly right. Don't forget about Jocko White T. If you're into T, the OG, the original. Or if you're into deadlifting. Deadlifting as well, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For sure. So yes, you can get all these things at the Vitamin Shop. Empty drinks you can get at Wawa, of course. And also everything is on JockoFuel.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. And life is full of these little miracles from time to time. Speaking of miracles. Origin USA. America made stuff. I wanna say stuff because there's a lot of stuff. There's jujitsu stuff. All made in America. Jeans.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. Jeans, boots, compression stuff. Uhm, originusa.com, go there. All the stuff on there is American made. From the cotton that's grown all the way up until the final product.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so here's what that did with the, you know, you know how like, what do you call it, when you build something up in your mind and finally when it comes, you have this, you know, did it measure up or did it not?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. So did it measure up? Here's the thing. It did, they do measure up. In fact, they more than measure up. Cause you know how like you'll say, okay, they kind of have a stretch to them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool, they have a stretch to them. But since I don't really have any stretchy jeans, or any jeans with a stretch to them, I don't really know what that even means when I put them on, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's nice. It's good. It's like, in fact, it's hard to go back now. Oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what you're saying? Yeah. So yeah, dang. Impressive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't know so much could go into je- I knew stuff goes into jeans, I understand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, American hands as a word. American hands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly right. So yes, originusa.com. That's the spot right there. Also, Jocko's store. It's called Jocko's store. So, you go to jockostore.com and this is where you can get


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm trying to think of a more interesting way to properly convey the cool stuff you can get, but at the end of the day you can just get your t-shirts, hats, hoodies that represent the path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that's the best way to put it. Just playing equals freedom. Good. Take the high ground. Or the high ground will take you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty unique quality about him, where he's like funny but he's so authentic and open about the even not so funny parts of, you know, and I think some people they'll try to do this, and they'll try to like, quote unquote, pull it off, but they lack the full authenticity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so, and this is what we're talking about, where a lot of times, where if you have the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being funny to people, legitimately, is kinda like a superpower.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can essentially bestow one of the best feelings onto a person and make them laugh, right? That's one of the best feelings you can ever have is like laughing legitimately.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have that as a superpower, you're just a funny person, right? So a lot of people, uhm, whether they have, like, internal issues or not, that starts to become the, the front-running quality, where they're always pushing that forward. You know, they're always leading with that, leading with that. And it's always successful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Meanwhile, the other stuff on the inside gets protected. You know, so anytime someone feels awkward or anytime someone feels vulnerable, even scared or whatever, anything that they don't like, they can just, boom, they can bust out the comedy and they'll be protected. In fact, they'll get a payoff from it. They won't just be protected, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But after a while, the stuff on the inside becomes more and more sensitive, you know? Where if, even if it's exposed this much, it's like, woah, the reaction is a little bit, a lot stronger, you know? But Theo does a good job in like, opening up and exposing that a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like a lot of times if you're just talking with your friend and you go off on some tangent or something, that's the kind of stuff you're gonna say to your friend, you know, or your friends behind closed doors, you know, just like in your own little environment. Like, ah shoot, sometimes I don't know what I'm talking about, you know, but he's like so open with that. And I don't mean open like he's like making this


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the video version of this podcast. You wanna see what Theo looks like if you don't know? I think a lot of us already know, but if you don't know, boom, you can see that. Uhm, video podcast is increasingly becoming kind of the way to, you know, to watch, listen to the podcast. So yea, we have a YouTube channel for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All you gotta do is pause for one second and you can see it real quick. It'll say, uh, Navy Seal Jocko Willink Motivational Shirt. Okay, yeaah, that's pretty off. Bro.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, the only Jocko shirts. Official. The only place you can get them is JockoStore.com


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can't think of one single other place you can get em. Oh, if you come into Victory MMA and fitness, you can get one here too. That's true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey Jaco, it's great to be with you. Thanks for inviting me. Always good to be here in San Diego.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, Jaco, when I wrote that book, The Ride of Our Lives, uh, near the end of the book, I put some, uh, just leadership lessons that I gained on that ride, as you mentioned. And I actually had people, uh, asking me


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I just, uh, gained so much more experience and learned so many more lessons over the next 30 plus years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and I just felt compelled to, to put those lessons down in the writing and hopefully, uh, would help other people gain from really most of the mistakes I made along the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, John, I took that bike ride with my wife and 15 month old son back in 1983. I kept the journal. Got it. That journal sat in a shoe box for over 35 years. And then when I retired from the army in 2019, had a little bit of time on my hands. So I decided to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, write the book, The Ride of Our Lives, and it was really, uh, meant to be for, for myself to reflect back on and for my family to have. And then I decided to self-publish it as, as a book and, uh, it turned out to be quite popular.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I could just say as I reflect back on my career, it was those non-commissioned officers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Especially, uh, early on in my career, those Vietnam vets, uh, who I was fortunate to be around and fortunate to get, you know, just, just some hard advice from, you know, no, no punches pulled. Hey, this is the way it should be, you know, so square yourself away and lead when you're in a leadership position.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, ideally, and you know, Jackie, you speak to the fact that, you know, you have to put,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your followers into positions where they have that opportunity to make some of those tough calls and you know, I even think of this, uh, reflecting back, you know, my kids are both in their thirties now, but reflecting back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When, when my children were teenagers, and I really think it's important for parents to let young teenagers make decisions. Because if parents are making all the decisions for their kids, when are they going to learn


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so I, I do think you need to, to put your followers in positions where they, they gain that experience. Hey, and if they make a mistake, you know, that's usually how we learn more is when we make a mistake than when we do something right by accident.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like athleticism. You know, some people are born with better athletic skills than others. But everybody could improve in that athleticism. It doesn't mean everybody's gonna be, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, an NFL player or NBA player, whatever, but everybody could get better and I feel the same way about leadership and that's another reason why I wrote the book and just as you've written many leadership books to try to help people develop those skills that we know could be improved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's easy to say, you know, uh, care about your people that you lead, but it's, I think, extremely hard to do, uh, to put the interest of those you lead before your own interest. I think the only people who could naturally do that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I think parents could naturally put the interests of their kids before their own. Uh, but to do that to people that, you know, aren't


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a hard thing to do, and I've been fortunate enough to be around, uh, leaders in the military.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who had that ability to do, there was almost an innate sense they had to put the welfare


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, uh, you know, leaders eat last and the reason we do that, you know, you could imagine, you know, you're out there either in a training environment, uh, or on an operation, you know, you get this chow, myrmited out here in the field and you know, it's rainy, it's cold.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or at least get a full portion. I mean, that's why leaders eat last. You want your folks that you lead to have the benefit of, of that nutrition before, before you suck, suck it down, you know. And, and again, we, we learned this in the military and I think,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, uh, folks in the civilian sector, uh, some, some know that kind of innately and others, uh, maybe never experienced that and that's why I think there's some organizations


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, that cannot develop that, that trust that is so essential if you're going to have an organization, uh, effectively run.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. And, uh, you know, you can think of examples that we've seen in the military, you know, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A leader who, I remember when I was over in Ramadi, you know, one of the platoons was getting some better version of an up-armored Humvee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the platoon leader refused to take that better version. He made sure, you know, the other soldiers in the platoon got that version before he would take it to ride in himself. And that's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Putting yourself more at risk for the benefit of those you lead. So there's a perfect example of how one could do that, especially if it means putting your life at risk, uh, that this guy was a true leader.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and uhm, you know, in the book, as people go through it, they'll see, you know, there's stories associated with these lessons that I've learned. And then there's certain actions I've found, through my experience over the last 40 years, that help one


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know, Jaco, I think resilience is something that has been talked about a lot over the last few years. Uhm, but resilience...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't, I don't believe resilience actually just happens by itself. Uh, you know, you've got to train to become a resilient person by doing certain things that you just mentioned. You know, moving out of your comfort zone. I mean, if you're a leader or a person who just wants to take the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, easy way of just staying in your comfort zone, doing things that you know how to do, never stretching yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Never putting yourself in a position where you might make a mistake because you think you're gonna look bad in front of your followers or your peers or whomever. Uh, you're not gonna grow that way. And, and then when tough times do happen,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're going to be less likely to demonstrate the resiliency that's needed in order to help your organization get through those tough times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kind of a great lesson in resiliency, and this goes back to Ramadi. I had a national, you know, one of our National Guard tank companies when we were training at Camp Shelby before going over to Iraq.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, this, this company has three platoons and one of their platoons went through that tank gunnery that, that you just talked about. Only one of their platoons did. Uh, and when they got over to Ramadi, we actually task organized them to 269 armor, which was an East Ramadi combat outpost, Corregidor area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And since 269 armor was an armor battalion, they didn't need this company to operate in tanks, so they made them motorized infantry. So they operated as motorized infantry for the first six months they were over in Ramadi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then 269 armor leaves and they get replaced by 1st out of 506 infantry from the 101st Airborne. Light infantry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But tanks were still needed in East Ramadi. So now these, these National Guard soldiers who were tankers operating as motorized infantry for the previous six months.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are now in tanks. And they just did a remarkable job. Uh, they had several main gun engagements while they were over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, it just goes to show you how by training to be resilient and training in those skills, even when you're taken out of that particular job in a combat situation for six months and then having to go back into those tanks again and then just performing remarkably.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it's just a great story of not only resiliency, but adaptability.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, you know, I remember when we got over, when the brigade, uh, I was part of got over to, to Ramadi in 2005, Coin Doctrine wasn't written yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, you know, Coin Doctrine wasn't, uh, written by, uh, General Petraeus and General Mattis until like early 2006, really.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, so there was no coin academy that, you know, leader, that leaders from my brigade went to when we got to Iraq, but I think 2006, 2007, after that, any brigade that got


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, deployed Iraq went through this thing called the Decoin Academy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so we kind of had to figure it out on our own and the way you figure it out, you know, you read history.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You see how it was done in the past? You just use some common sense. You talk to leaders that you respect and that you count on and you kind of figure it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was the interesting thing that was done there, you know, a brigade of 5,000 soldiers and Marines, but a lot of the operations were occurring at the platoon and company level. So it's not like, you know, because I was a brigade commander, I was directing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some type of large brigade operation. That didn't exist. They were all done at very small unit levels and, and, uh, just, just, uh, an amazing thing about our American, you know, uh, uh, servicemen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And women, uh, they figure it out. They have a way to figure it out. And I think, uh, if you read history of the military, which I know you, you do when you read on, on your podcast regularly, uh, it's just amazing how we have, uh, you know, how our American, uh, military has just figured things out as we went.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, it's funny you mention that because we kind of, uh, evolved and I read somewhere or somebody told me, you know, you can't kill yourself out of an insurgency.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we, when we first got there, you know, our, our mission was to, you know, kill the insurgents. And we evolved into protecting the populace. Cause we realized, you know, the main, the main, uh, uh, goal here is to protect the populace in order to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Change chaos into, into something that was going to be calmer than chaos there. And, and so uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The same type of thinking you had about your, your mission of protecting the, the, the people of Ramadi, we, we kind of evolved into that too from, uh, again, reading history, uh, talking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To some of the, uh, Iraqi leaders in Ramadi that we would be dealing with on a regular basis. And we came to the conclusion that hey, if we're going to be successful here, it's about protecting the populace, not simply killing the bad guys. Now sometimes,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You would have to kill bad guys in order to protect the populace. So I'm not saying, you know, that was totally off the table.


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[Assistant] But the mindset completely changed for us throughout that one year that we conducted operations there.


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[Assistant] And it just caused significant wounds to Mike Cotcher.


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[Assistant] Uh, broke his jaw, uh, you know, internal, uh, bleeding and, and damages. And then his, his, his left arm was wounded so significant, significantly that it had to be amputated. And they, you know, as they were treating him, he was eventually put in a, in a, in a coma.


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[Assistant] And then induced coma, and it took him two years to recover from these very, very significant wounds that he had.


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[Assistant] And he decided that the way he was going to overcome this adversity, uh, that he was facing was to, uh, just build himself up physically and compete in physical competition. And so he decided to enter the Invictus Games.


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[Assistant] And, uh, then Victus Games, uh, uh, were created, I think by Prince Harry, if I'm not mistaken. And it was all about bringing, you know, wounded warriors together to compete in Olympic style competition.


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[Assistant] And so, I believe it was in 2018 in Sydney, Australia, when Mike was competing in his third Invictus game. As he was competing in some track and field events, he noticed this young girl, uhm, about eight years old, in the stands, and she was kinda,


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[Assistant] You know, shadowing him. Whatever event he would go to compete in, she would kind of, you know, move her seat and come over and watch him and then he, he realized she had one arm.


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[Assistant] And uhm, when it came time for him to receive his silver medal that he earned,


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[Assistant] He asked Jemma to come up on the podium with him. And when he was given the silver medal, he took it from around his neck and put it around Jemma's neck and gifted the silver medal that he worked so hard for to the shang


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[Assistant] Eight-year-old Australian girl, and I had the opportunity to, uh, email back and forth with Gemma's father, who, again, is Australian.


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[Assistant] And he went on to tell me how that had just completely changed Gemma's life. Another interesting thing he told me.


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[Assistant] He said, you know, Gemma's arm was not amputated. She was born without that arm. And he said, and there's a psychological difference between having your arm amputated or being born without an arm. So he made that distinction.


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[Assistant] It just dramatically changed Jemma's life and now she's competing in sports. As a matter of fact, I see, uh, pictures of her on Instagram where she's winning swim meets and, uh, she's just ready to tear it up because of this very simple


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[Assistant] You know, that uhm, you know, this could have a generational impact. I don't want to sound too dramatic here, but it could. It could have a generational impact.


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[Assistant] On Gemma, and on Gemma's children, if she has children someday, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, just because of that very selfless act that, that Mike Hotcher did. And you gotta realize, you know, you work hard to get the silver medal.


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[Assistant] I mean, just to give it away like that to somebody that you don't really know, uh, was, was quite a gesture. So, uh, that, that's, that's the story about Mike.


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[Assistant] I think, I think the training that you received in the Navy certainly helped, is my belief. Uhm, and I think,


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[Assistant] Goals are important, you know, I mean, if, if, if you have no goals in your life, nothing that's meaningful and purposeful for you to work toward, what the hell are you gonna be disciplined about? You know, I mean, uh, you're gonna be kinda like just, just drifting one way or the other. So I think, uh,


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[Assistant] You know, people that have specific goals, you know, your goal to be a SEAL, your goal once you were a SEAL to, you know, be a SEAL Commander, et cetera, et cetera, kind of sets you up to


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[Assistant] Uh, I think it's probably a little bit of both, uh, but I do think the path you chose and those goals you had, uh, probably did a lot to help you become a very self-disciplined person. And you think that's the same for you then?


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[Assistant] Uh, I probably wouldn't have had the benefit of those NCOs and other role models who showed me that in order to achieve something you really gotta work hard for. Now, yeaah, when I was growing up as a kid, you know, my dad, my family tried to show me those things. Uh, so I think it's,


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[Assistant] And then, you know, I'm a big believer in sports. You know, you play sports like, you know, I played some sports in high school and you have to be disciplined in order.


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[Assistant] To get out there on a field and not get yourself beat up, right? Uh, and, and then, you know, you, you, you join the military and again, you've got to show some discipline in order to, because you know people are counting on you.


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[Assistant] And in order to achieve what you want to in that regard. So I think it's really like a building block as you go through your life. And some people are fortunate to have


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[Assistant] You know, Jack, I do think that's why purpose is so important, and those goals are so important, cause same at ranger school, you know. You know, you get that ranger tab, and that's when the hard work should start, because now you've got to prove it every day that I deserve to have this ranger tab on my shoulder, and I see it.


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[Assistant] Uh, you know, folks I know that went to ranger school and now they're out of the military and they kind of just like let themselves go. And that's probably because they don't have that.


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[Assistant] I think that's an unfortunate thing and that's why purpose is so important. That's why I think leaders have to...


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[Assistant] Uh, be able to communicate purpose to their followers, so their followers understand, and I know you talk about this in your dichotomy of leadership book, you know, so, so people understand, why am I doing this thing that the leader has told me to do? Well, if you don't explain the purpose, the leaders aren't, or the, the followers aren't gonna get it.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you know, Jaco, I have, uh, you know, business owners talk to me about that all the time, you know, like, why can't I be a toxic leader? You know, I get, get, get the job done, you know.


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[Assistant] Get shit done, you know, that type of thing. And it's kind of like, you know what? You could be a toxic leader and like you said, you could yell and scream and people are going to listen to you and they're going to do it.


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[Assistant] If you're looking for sustained success over a long period of time, uh, that's where, you know, toxic leadership does not work. Because toxic leadership could work for short-term gain, but if you want sustained success over time, that's not the way to do it.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, absolutely. And, uh, and I think that's why some leaders fail to have the courage to make decisions. Because with almost any decision you're making, there's some sort of risk associated with that. And, uh, again, if you're going to look at gaining anything for your organization,


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[Assistant] You know, we talked about, you know, moving yourself out of your comfort zone. You've got to move your organization out of its comfort zone too.


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[Assistant] And so it's, it's, it's, it's about, okay, understanding what those risks are and then how am I going to reduce the probability of this happening and also reduce the impact of it happening. And those, those are certain steps you, you could take.


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[Assistant] You know, you have to be optimistic and then lead your organization through that.


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[Assistant] But it's not just because you're telling people, hey, things are going to get better. You've actually got to put a plan together that's believable to your followers. So it's just not about


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[Assistant] You know, what you say, it's about, okay, what plan have we put together now that's going to show that we're going to be able to do things a little bit differently to overcome this adversity. So uhm, you know, that's really, and it takes a lot of hard work, and it doesn't come easy.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it was going remarkably well. You know, when we first got there, I guess it was July of 2005.


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[Assistant] Uh, next June and July up there, of course, but July of 2005, uh, you know, we, we started, uh, police recruiting events and we'd have like two or three people show up to join the police. I mean, it was pathetic.


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[Assistant] And you know, we started to talk to the shakes and actually.


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[Assistant] Through our talks with the sheiks, they would tell us some things that our troops were doing that probably, uh,


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[Assistant] Weren't that beneficial to the citizens of Ramadi. Uh, so we started to change up some of our tactics and procedures. That didn't affect our operation, but it helped the sheiks understand that, hey, we were really here for your people, for your tribe.


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[Assistant] And on January 3rd, we had 200 people show up at the glass factory in Ramadi where we're conducting this event at.


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[Assistant] Two hundred people showed up the first day. It's like, we can't believe this. Like, before we were having two or three people show up, we got two hundred people standing in line to join the police. So the shake, you know, that told us the shakes were getting the word out to other tribes people that, hey, come and, we, we trust these Americans.


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[Assistant] Third day, and as I reflect back on it, uhm, you know, whenever you're operating in an insurgency environment, you don't want to do things three days in a row. So it was a big mistake I made. Third day, we had about 800 people standing in line. I mean, we were ecstatic. We thought we really turned a corner here.


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[Assistant] And, uh, a suicide bomber, because this was the third day in a row we were doing this, suicide bomber shows up.


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[Assistant] And detonates their vest right in the middle of this large crowd, killing over 100 Iraqis and killed a Marine dog handler, Sergeant Khan, and also a good friend of mine, Lieutenant Colonel Mike McLaughlin.


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[Assistant] And injured several other of our soldiers, some severely, but thank God no one else died. No other U.S. military died from that attack.


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[Assistant] I handled it as, uh, I brought the leaders together the following day, cause, cause two weeks from that particular day, we were going to have 200 Iraqis show up at the glass factory again, so we could ship them to Baghdad to attend police training.


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[Assistant] The importance of leaders admitting when they do something wrong, I think really comes out here, because, uh, when I got everybody together, and I don't know what they were thinking, maybe they were thinking I was gonna try to blame somebody, I don't know, but the first thing I said was,


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[Assistant] We're not gonna waste time fixing blame on anybody cause, cause I'm the one responsible for this. So forget about fixing blame. It's, it's, it's on me. What we need to spend our time doing is talk about how are we going to change things so this doesn't happen two weeks from now when we do the same event again.


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[Assistant] Because, you know, we had to publicize this so people knew to show up, so it's not like you're keeping it from the insurgents. And so I'm not going to get into the details of how we change things, but we change things significantly in terms of the way the outside of that glass factory was set up.


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[Assistant] If God forbid a suicide bomber was going to blow themselves up again, the most they could take out would be about 10 people rather than 100 or more. And so, uh, the point is, uh, when leaders hit these bad days, this adversity, there's


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[Assistant] The organization is counting on you to find a way through it. And that was a lesson I learned. I mentioned, you know, this book is filled with mistakes I made that I was able to learn from. And by putting this book out, hopefully others won't have to make similar mistakes.


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[Assistant] The whole point of what I just said is, uh, when you hit adversity, uh, you've got to be able to be resilient enough to fight your way through that for the organization. And again, that's not gonna come.


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[Assistant] Uh, by itself, you've gotta, you've gotta prepare and, and, and develop your resiliency before these bad days happen, because we all know they're gonna happen.


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[Assistant] And, and then it's also the important part of a leader admitting they made a mistake so the organization doesn't have to start pointing fingers at one another because


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[Assistant] If, if you don't do that and you can't develop that sense of, of, of trust, where, cause people know when you screwed up. Okay?


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[Assistant] And if people are expending more energy on watching their own back, they're not going to be expending energy on getting done what the organization needs to get done.


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[Assistant] Uh, when I took command of 55th Brigade, uh, you know, National Guard Brigade. So, you know, about 3000 soldiers distributed across Northeastern Pennsylvania down toward the Philadelphia area. And.


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[Assistant] You know, 85% of them had full-time civilian jobs, so.


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[Assistant] Man, I gotta develop a vision for this organization in order for us to show some, you know, to move forward here. And what I did is, uh, I went around, uh, to representative, uh, samplings of soldiers who were part of that brigade. I would talk to a PFC.


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[Assistant] And, and, uh, the question I would ask them, I would say, hey, you know, if you fell asleep for five years and woke up five years from now, what would you want to see this brigade look like then?


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[Assistant] And uhm, the funny thing is, whether it was a soldier, low rank, one year experience, or higher ranking officer with 17 years experience, everybody kind of wanted the same thing. They wanted to be well trained so if we had to deploy, we'd be able to do our job successfully.


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[Assistant] Uh, and this goes for any business leader out there trying to develop a vision for their organization. And many organizations are working distributed now, uh, you know, with the pandemic and everything else. It's, try to get it, you know, when I say shared vision, try to get a representative sample, if you could, of where people would like to see it go. And ultimately, you as the leader, like you said,


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[Assistant] You've got a broader view of everything, so yeaah, you've finally got to put a stake in the ground and say yeaah, this is going to be our vision. But I think it's a good idea to get a representative, uh, sampling of those in your organization. And, uh, and then,


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[Assistant] You know, when you get it out there, you know, you've gotta, you've gotta share it in a, in a multitude of ways. You know, when you're speaking to people one on one, you've gotta communicate that vision. When you're speaking to a group of 500, you've gotta communicate the vision through email, through your website, through


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[Assistant] Whatever, you know, social media means you might, uh, want to use. But the vision then has to be consistent. You know, it can't be a...


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[Assistant] A new flavor of the month or a new vision of the quarter. You know, like you said, visions could change, but it shouldn't, it shouldn't be changing on a very, very frequent basis. That's what I learned about developing a vision, you know, over 20 years ago.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and the other interesting thing with that, you know, we could call that guy a toxic leader, is I found that toxic leaders are very good at not letting their people they work for, their superior officers, whatever you want to call it, see their toxicity. Oh, for sure. They're able to hide it.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's amazing how good they are at hiding that toxicity when they're talking to somebody who they work for.


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[Assistant] And you know, the, the more you get down there, you know, I call it muddy, muddy boots leadership, the more you get down there to talk to the troops, you know, whether it be military, civilian, uh,


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[Assistant] Then you're able to develop that trust too. Cause you're right, the first time you go down and ask somebody, hey, how's it going? They're not going to be totally honest with you if they don't know you. Uh, but the more they get used to seeing you come around and just having a rapport and see that you're, hey, a normal guy and you really do want the best for the organization, they're going to loosen up and tell you the truth.


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[Assistant] Some leaders think they're listening, uh, but their actions don't show that they're listening. You know, like, you go in to talk to somebody, hey, hey, could I have a minute, could I talk to you? And, you know, the leader is, you know, checking their phone while you're talking to them, or they're, you know,


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[Assistant] You know, uh, the other thing about values, if you don't understand what your own personal core values are,


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[Assistant] Uhm, I really believe you have to factor your personal core values into decisions you make. So if you don't have those core values


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[Assistant] Articulated in your own mind, how are you going to factor them in to your decision? And the same with organizations. You know, organizations, many organizations have organizational values.


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[Assistant] But when the leadership team gets together with the CEO and they're in the, you know, they're going through this decision making process, how many of them actually factor the organizational values into the decision that they're making? Uh, which I, I would think,


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[Assistant] I would just guess many don't even think about their values when they're making a business decision.


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[Assistant] Exactly, and then, and then you're not being true to your values, and again, that breaks trust with your customers, or that breaks trust with your employees, or whomever, uh, that particular decision is going to affect. So yeaah, really,


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[Assistant] That's why values are so important, I believe. And then the other thing, uh, behaviors I think are important too. You know, I know a lot of organizations are getting


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[Assistant] Uh, you know, they do have organizational values, but now they're also getting into organizational behaviors. So they actually list out, you know, maybe between 10 to 20 behaviors that they expect from their employees, which I think is


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[Assistant] Is, uh, very important. As a matter of fact, the consulting firm I used to work for, Green Castle Consulting, uh, has


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[Assistant] expected behaviors that they want their, uh, consultants to demonstrate.


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[Assistant] And, uh, I think that's a very good way to look at things. Cause, you know, values are kinda conceptual.


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[Assistant] And I do think, uh, you know, uh, identifying expected behaviors is really helpful in getting your employees to treat customers or treat each other the way you want them to.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you know, Jaco, I think you putting that, uh, emphasis on code in, in, in that book is one of the best things you've ever done.


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[Assistant] Because if you want to keep people on an ethical path,


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[Assistant] Guardrails to stay on that ethical path is by actually writing down what your own personal code is. And then that will help you stay grounded and help you stay on that path. That's just a great technique to use to keep somebody


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[Assistant] You know, staying within those limits, cause how many times have we seen


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[Assistant] Yeah, and again, it's because they either never took the time to write down their own personal code, or if they've written it down, now they're not paying attention to it. So I think that's great advice you gave out there.


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[Assistant] That's what we call that. And that taught me that whether you lead an organization of 800 or you lead an organization of 8, the leadership challenges are there.


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[Assistant] You know, it doesn't get any easier or harder depending on the number of people you lead. You still got those challenges. The folks on your team are still expecting you to be a good leader, a positive influence on them. And as I mentioned in the book, I'm just glad.


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[Assistant] This guy had the personal courage to come up and tell me about it because it was really life changing for me because that really got me on a journey to


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[Assistant] Really study what trust is all about. And not only how to cultivate trust, but also how to repair trust if, if you unfortunately break it.


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[Assistant] Yeah, no, I realized how hard that was for him. And again, I think, you know, the lesson for anybody out here listening is, hey, you know, you could be


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[Assistant] You know, you could be a jackass, you know, if you want to be and not be approachable and, you know, hey, my way or the highway, I'm the boss, you know, who are you to tell me?


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[Assistant] Uh, what to do or give me advice, but you're probably only going to go so far in, in, you know, your journey as a, as a leader. And if, if you really wanted to have long-term success, you've, you've got to follow some of these basic leadership tenets, you know?


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[Assistant] Being fortunate enough to have people around you like, like a gunny Michael Burkhart. And one other quick story I want to tell that's not in the book. I didn't mention it last time. Uh, but I think it's inspiring. We have this one soldier from the 28th Infantry Division who came to Ramadi with us. His name was Anthony Jorgensen.


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[Assistant] And, uh, again, we got there in, uh, July of 2005. It was in the fall of 2005. He was in an up armored Humvee. I believe he was in the gunner's position. ID detonates.


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[Assistant] And so, uhm, gets sent back home to the United States, recovers from his wounds, and with some time in early 2006, he tells the leadership in the Pennsylvania Guard, hey, I want to go back over to Ramadi. You know? It's like they can't believe it. It's kind of like, no, we are not sending you back.


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[Assistant] So, I did have a battalion from the Vermont National Guard there with me, task organized to my brigade.


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[Assistant] So this guy leaves the Pennsylvania National Guard, joins the Vermont National Guard, just so he could


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[Assistant] Get Vermont to send them back over to Vermont. He'd be part of that battalion. So he gets back over there. And then it's April 2006.


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[Assistant] He's out there on another patrol and he's in a support by fire position. He's in the gunner's compartment of this up armored Humvee. There's some dismounts going into a building, uh, that they believed insurgents were in.


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[Assistant] And an insurgent fires an RPG, a rocket-propelled grenade at this up-armored Humvee that Jorgensen is in, and just like wings it, you know, slight damage to that Humvee.


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[Assistant] Uh, he gets knocked down out of the gunner's hatch, gets back up there. He sees that insurgents are pinning down these dismounts that are out there. So he jumps down into the driver's compartment.


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[Assistant] Drives that up armored Humvee between where the insurgents are firing and these, uh, dismounts that were pinned down. Gets back up into the gunner's compartment and lays down suppressive fire on these insurgents, allowing these dismounts to disengage and then continue to mission.


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[Assistant] All this after suffering these wounds and that attack back in the fall. Now how many?


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[Assistant] You know, how many people would, you know, leave Ramadi with, with, you know, honorable wounds like he did and then fight to get back over there and then...


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[Assistant] You know, does this heroic action, uh, which I believe he got a brown star with V for, for, for doing what he did. But just, just, again, the reason I want to bring that story up is,


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[Assistant] These soldiers are so inspiring. And, and, and, you know, you know, we think as leaders, we should be inspiring our followers, but our followers have a way, especially in the military, of inspiring us, and some of these stories just have to be told.


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[Assistant] He lives up in the Scranton area. Just getting after it in the Scranton area. Yeaah, yeaah. So, just very proud of him. You know what he does for a living? Uhm, offhand I don't know. Right on. Yeaah, but, uh, but again.


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[Assistant] Yeah, basically what that's about is, uh, you know,


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[Assistant] I don't think leaders should treat everybody on the, on the team equally. Uh, you got, and when I say that, that's what I mean by it. You got to get to know the people on your team. Everybody's a little bit different. So you gotta really get to know what makes them tick.


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[Assistant] And what's going to motivate certain people as opposed to motivating others?


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[Assistant] And so, uh, you know, you can't treat them equally. I think there's a story in there. I think about, uh,


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[Assistant] Jimmy Johnson when he coached the Dallas Cowboys and he was asked by a reporter, Hey, you know, if, if you, uh, saw Troy Aikman asleep in one of your team meetings and a third string offensive guard asleep in, in, in your team meeting, will you treat them the same way?


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[Assistant] And, and he answered, absolutely not. He goes, and this is what I do. He goes, I would probably cut that third string offensive guard immediately. And with Troy Aikman, I would go up to him and I would kind of nudge him gently awake and I would say, hey, can I bring you a cup of coffee? You know, so the, the point is, you know,


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[Assistant] Some people need a kick in the butt. Some people need a pat on the back.


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[Assistant] Another interesting story with this, a football story, you know, I grew up as a Green Bay Packer fan, so in 1966, 10 years old, Lombardi, you know, winning his first Super Bowl, I became a Packer fan, so I started to read all kinds of books about the Packers, and there was this one story, you know, Bart Starr, who was the quarterback for Lombardi,


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[Assistant] Uh, I think it was like the second year Lombardi was the head coach. He was just chewing Bart Starr out relentlessly during this practice. And, you know, talk about moral courage. Uh, after practice, uh, Bart Starr goes to Coach Lombardi's office and he goes, hey coach, could I talk to you privately for a few minutes? Coach says, yeah, sure. What's up? And Starr says to him, he goes, coach, he goes,


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[Assistant] I don't want you ever chewing me out in front of the team again. He said, I'm the quarterback. I'm leading this team. He goes, if they see you chewing me out the way you were chewing me out, he goes, I'm not going to be able to lead this team effectively. And Lombardi light bulb went off in his head and he realized,


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[Assistant] He could not treat everybody exactly the same way. You know, so he never chewed Bart Starr out in front of the team again. Because he realized that what Starr said was exactly correct. You know, he couldn't lead the team effectively if he was going to be treated like that.


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[Assistant] And uh, so again, just, just some great lessons we could learn from, from, from, from past leaders. And, you know, I've just tried, I think we all try to do our best when we hear these lessons to try to apply them if we could.


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[Assistant] You know, I remember as a young army officer reading in some manual somewhere


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, or maybe it was even some senior leader who was coaching me, but said, you know, thre- there's three things a commander could do to positively impact a battle once it begins. He said the commander's use of fires, you know, uh, close air support and indirect fire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, the, uh, use of the reserves, you know, because usually the commander, uh, retains the authority of when to use his reserve. And the third thing is personal presence on the battlefield.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said, those are the three things a commander could do to influence the battle once it begins. Uh, and, and that always stuck to me, stuck with me, especially that notion of the personal presence on, on the battlefield and just having that personal presence there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, which help, I think, you know, soldiers in battle or in the civilian sector, you know, employees in an organization.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Realize that, hey, this leader is out with us sharing the load, sharing the danger, uh, you know, sharing what's coming our way. And, and, and, you know, they, they kind of get bolstered by, by that whole notion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, I did try to get out there a lot, not because I had any type of, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, courage to speak of it just because I felt it was necessary to do. And the other thing, for any military leader listening to this, and really it applies to business leaders too, I would encourage my staff to get out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the reason I encouraged my staff to get out there is because I felt it was important for my staff to also gain ground truth. If the staff was gaining what they thought was the truth from reading reports, they were missing about 80% of what was happening. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Although I know, you know, in the military a lot of times, especially in operations like that, the staff needs to be back doing staff work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I always encourage them that hey, they did have to make time to actually get out there, talk to troops, see areas with their own eyes. And again, just a history from less than Hurkin Forest, 28th Infantry Division fighting in the Hurkin Forest in November 1944, the Battle of Schmidt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, it was a devastating, uh, time for the 28th Infantry Division in about four days, over 6,000 casualties.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And one thing that was written about that period is, uh, it said that General Cota, who was the division commander at the time,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go forward either. So, they didn't realize that the call trailed through the Herkin forest, which they were sending Sherman tanks down, a Sherman tank.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is eight and a half feet wide. The call trail was nine feet wide. I mean, it was not a good, uh, you know, main, you know, MSR main supply route.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, or, or, or good route of any sort for those tanks to be going along. And so the lesson there is, because the commander didn't get out on the battlefield, because the staff didn't get out there, they were relying on maps.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, they didn't get the full, uh, understanding of what that Herkin Forest area was, was like. So, again, for any civilian leader, any military leader, absolutely important, not only to get out there yourself, but to get your, your staff, the ones that you depend on to advise you to get out there as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, it's not, it's not just about speed, it's about tempo. And uhm, a couple of things came to mind, Jaco, as you were talking. One is uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My personal security detachment in Ramadi, uh, you know, was generally four up-armored Humvees. I had a platoon, the platoon leader's name was Jacques Smith, just, just an excellent leader.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, early on as we were out there with me, you know, uh, being transported by this, uh, when we, when we moved mounted by this, uh, four up armor humvee formation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, I was kind of on the radio directing the movement of these four up armored Humvees and, and, uh, Jacques Smith, you know, the lieutenant, he looks at me, he goes, sir, he goes,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About how, how you should maneuver this platoon because he was right. I had, I had a brigade elite. And then the other story is command sergeant major, uh, Chris Kepner. He was my command sergeant major when I commanded 28th infantry division.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He used to say, as he would go out and talk to leaders and coach and mentor leaders, he would say,