[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Permanently disabled for the rest of his life or just having a nuisance of not having, you know, one eye. And when we got that word, it was just devastating. I mean, I'm talking to him on the phone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in this horse, you know, horse voice he's talking, he's just telling me it's okay. And he's joking about wanting to get a parrot on his shoulder and eye patch, you know, so he can look like a pirate and he's just a, just a phenomenal guy. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where we didn't laugh hysterically. I mean, he was the kind of guy that just looked at all the things he could still do in life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was not gonna dwell on his disability. Was not dwell on the fact that his eyesight had been taken from him in the prime of his life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and, and he, he just was a phenomenal guy. He showed me the true meaning of toughness, uh, and, uh, he just was, uh, of selflessness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was, uh, it was just, it was phenomenal to be around him and he was just the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He would, uh, he was just such a funny guy. You know, I was thinking about it when I was, I was listening to an earlier podcast and you were, uh, quoting from the book that I gave you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was thinking, you know, Jaco had mentioned that we were watching Patton and Ramadi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And just to, to put that in perspective, we were watching, we would project the film up onto the back wall of the camp and literally it's about a 20 foot high wall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, these huge camel spiders run across your feet. You don't want to get bitten by those things, they're pretty nasty. But we watched that movie, A Patent, and I remember in particular, Ryan was just so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, is, is phenomenal, but there's a scene in the movie where Patton gets passed over for promotion and one of his peers, Omar Bradley, who had actually been a subordinate to Patton, is getting promoted above Patton. And so it's obviously devastating. It's obviously crushing for Patton. And so one of his aides runs up to him and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He has the news, but Patton doesn't have the news yet, and he's like, sir, general, can I, can I pour you a warm glass of milk?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Ryan, for some reason, thought that was absolutely hilarious. And I remember on multiple operations, we'd come back, you know, guys were smoked and tired and, and, uh, Biggles would roll up to me and say, Sir, can I pour you a warm glass of milk?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was incredibly genuine and that's just the kind of guy Ryan was. And what's amazing is, you know, he went on to do so many things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he, he married his, his girlfriend at the time was, was a phenomenal lady, incredibly, incredibly phenomenal lady. And, uh, he went back to school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After he got out, uh, he was medically retired. He graduated with a, a business degree at a 4.0. I was like, Ryan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I mean, he just, he just could not be kept down and, and he went and climbed, he summited Mount Rainier, 14,000 plus foot mountain, completely blind. I mean, that's a difficult mountain. A lot of people get killed trying to climb that mountain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, with the full use of their limbs and eyesight and he went and did that great organization called Camp Patriot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, uh, that helps, helps wounded vets and taking him, taking him up on that climb. And he called me up, uh, and said, hey, Leif, we're going elk hunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's something we talked about in, in Iraq because Ryan was a big hunter, grew up in, in Washington state and had gone hunting. I grew up in Texas and I loved to hunt and, and I'd gone up in Colorado and hunted up there elk hunting. So we talked about doing an elk hunt and you know, now I thought, well, it's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We can go, you know, we can listen to the elk and he can be, you know, part of the hunt, but he can't, you know, how can he actually shoot an animal? He can't actually do that anymore. And he said, it's like they got some kind of gadgetry for me, uh, you know, set up. He's like, I'm going to shoot an elk. And I was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm in. And, uh, I think it was like my 10-year Naval Cavalry Unicorn. I was like, cancel that. We're going hunting. So Ryan and I went, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, went up there with Camp Patriot, they had this crazy like gadget set up on the, uh, on the, uh, the scope of the weapon. And it was a, it was a camera.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, and it was, so you could, looking through at the sites. And so we kind of had this, I was spotting for him, looking through the camera. We kind of got him situated, kind of told him when to, when to hold.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We kinda had like a ready fire terminology we came up with. And one thing about Ryan is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That dude could shoot and you know, he, he struggled at Nyland originally keeping up and you know with his physical fitness until he became Biggles 2000 and then, then was born again hard. But when we got to our shooting schools.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We realized what this guy could shoot. He was a great shot. And so when we were training with that, that rifle, we were on the range and we're practicing to go on this elk hunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, uh, I'm talking to a man on the target. I realized right away, like if we miss, it's my fault because he's going to be, he's going to, right when I tell him to pull the trigger, he's hitting that target and he's going to, it's going to be right wherever that crosshair is. So we kind of figured it out and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, great, uh, great Google folks, uhm, and, uh, we went out, he shot a gigantic, like, world-class elk, and, uh, he was, and then once we got it, we were cleaning the thing, and he just, you know, he just, he wanted a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Got his hands in there like elbow deep and, and, uh, in the cleaning process and just, it was, it was a phenomenal, phenomenal experience. And Ryan just couldn't be, he could not be kept down. He focused on everything that he could still do. And it was some of the things I couldn't even explain. I remember when, uh, he was living in the Phoenix area and, uh, I went out to visit him and we're dry. We had gone out to breakfast and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're driving back to his house, and this is, he'd only moved there after he was blind, so he'd never been in this area before. And we're driving past, he's like, you just missed the turn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm like, obviously I'm driving. He's blind. He's sitting in the passenger seat. I was like, what do you mean? How do you know that? He's like, I just, you should have turned back there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Toughness and selflessness and, uh, and just the attitude of being able to overcome any challenge and be thankful for the blessings you've been given. And, uh, he was just, just incredibly awesome warrior, teammate and friend and, and we miss him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It choked each other out. You could always see our, you could tell who our task unit was because when you called a name of someone, we would turn our heads, we would turn our entire shoulders.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, in particular, you know, Chris, and we talked about Chris Callis, it's a humor, it's a phenomenal guy. He had a great relationship with, with, with Ryan and, and, uh, really kind of took Ryan under his wing. And, and, uh, one of the things Chris liked to do was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, so Bigelow's the new guy, he's fired up, like, hey, I want you to go get up in Lafe's face. You know, so, and they'd have him come up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna go do it to Jock, and we, and he did it in a pretty public forum, cause we were, we were planning, this is on our uh, trip, we're actually practicing like urban assaults.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I remember watching every, so they, not only have they talked him into it, Jaco doesn't know this, but we all know it's coming. So everyone's watching this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, and so all of a sudden Jaco like turns around and so I think Chris or somebody says like, Hey Jaco, Jaco turns around and Biggles is standing like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Beggles, look man, they're not gonna have you, but that's the whole point, right? They wanted to see you get choked out. So, so I, after that I think it was a good learning experience, but uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I gotta say the SEAL teams has produced some phenomenal, phenomenal individuals, some incredible battlefield leaders throughout the decades in the proud legacy and history of the SEAL teams. And, uh, I can say with confidence that I believe that Tony Afrati is probably one of the best combat leaders the SEAL teams has ever produced.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I don't say that very lightly at all, but he was a phenomenal, phenomenal battlefield leader. And you've heard of the break glass in case of war guys. This is, this is that guy and he was just, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To put it in perspective as a platoon commander, I'm on my second platoon. So I had one deployment to Iraq. Chalko had a few deployments before because he was a, you know, he would have been an enlisted man for eight years and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, you know, Tony was, this was his eighth deployment. I mean, he had massive amounts of experience in the teams. I think he'd been busted down in rank like twice, right? You know, hard fighting guy and, and, uh, he, he was, he wanted to be that platoon chief. That's all he ever wanted to be. And, uh, and he was incredibly, incredibly good at it. Uhm, I just,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can remember that same lamb warfare training you were just talking about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're under fire. We're in a very difficult situation. There's a lot of chaos going on in this training environment. Here we are preparing for actual combat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we're getting shot at from like one of the target buildings and it's just made, it's made out of like, uh, you know, two by fours and, and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Realizes that we gotta assault that target building now because we're taking fire from that building and he does a like full on sprint, like wide open for about 50 yards and does human battering ram into the doorway. One man clear into the building and like kills the role player who's shooting at us. And it was like, that's who Tony is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's, he's a total badass. He is gonna handle the situation. And that's the guy he was on the battlefield. I mean, he definitely, uh, he was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was the guy, I mean, we leaned on him the only time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he was intimately involved in the planning, default aggressive. I mean, just incredibly aggressive. We're going to go in there and we're going to hammer the enemy. We're going to go right in his backyard where he's never going to expect this. And, uh, and we're going to, we're going to win. We're going to crush them. We're going to kill bad guys. And one of the things that gained us momentum


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you talked about earlier, Jaco, of the mortars that hit right outside the building you were sitting in and killed the soldier, wounded several others. We had IEDs going off and I know you were sitting in there and, uh, in the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tony really had a vision too, as far as getting the platoon ready and making sure that we knew he...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He had a feeling that we might need some sniper capability and so we plused up the number of snipers well beyond what the normal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had moved into a really, really nasty area of south central Ramadi. And, uh, there were two buildings that were right next to each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were, several of us were, I was in a group that was across the street. Chris and I were together on that one. Tony was with another group of guys that were across, that were in a different set of buildings.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the building that we were in just, it just wasn't a good position. And we were trying to figure out where we need to go, but it just was not a good position. The sun was going to come up within, you know, pretty soon and we needed to get in position. So we actually fell back and took a building right next to where Tony and his guys were. And we actually smashed through the concrete wall connecting them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we had to make a walkway so we could actually like get in and out and communicate with each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tony was a sniper looking through a loophole in the wall, which is like a hole that was maybe six or eight inches in diameter that we smashed out with a sledgehammer. Sometimes we use explosive charges, but it gave you a little bit of cover so that you didn't get shot in the face by some enemy, another enemy sniper across the street or somebody shooting at you with a machine gun. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two inches maybe. I mean it came right in, just whizzed past his face, slammed into the wall just behind him. And so I hear the crack, and then I hear...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Tony was best. And he reached over, grabbed a Mark 48 machine gun, and dumped a hundred round belt through the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, through the, uh, the loophole, we had no idea where the round really came from, but a hundred rounds got shot back in the general direction, and I think that was discouraging to whoever was shooting at us. So, but that's the kind of guy who Tony was. He was gonna, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he was the guy too, we, because he had that relationship with you when I first checked into SEAL Team 3.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, me and the Delta platoon commander, who's a good friend of mine that we've gone, gone through buds with, Jocko referenced earlier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, we had heard about this guy, Jaco. And, uh, and interestingly enough, I actually heard your name before mispronounced, of course, Jaco Willineck, uh, from a guy that I grew up with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was starting to talk about being in the SEAL teams. I wanted to be a SEAL and our, our family friend said, yeah, I, I, I rolled jiu-jitsu with this guy who's a SEAL. His name was Jaco Willinec. And, uh, and he beat me in this tournament. He's a great guy, you know, and so he was talking about you. And so, so I had heard that name before, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, and then when we were working together, team three, I was like, okay, I, I hear this guy Jock, it's actually pronounced willing Jocko willing. Okay. This is that same guy that I heard about, you know, years ago before I was even in the Navy. And, uh, and so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, like who is this guy? We hadn't met him before. I knew a bunch of the guys already in the platoon and, uh, Tony.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Said, I remember standing there looking at the board. We had the boards like magnet boards of all the names are going to be in the platoon. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I'm, I'm at the top of the OIC and then Tony's next. And then, you know, a bunch of guys underneath Chris is kind of right up there. And, uh, and he's like, or like I said, what, what can you tell us about Jaco? He's like, Jaco is the guy we want to start tasking the commander. We're good to go. That's how I was like, Roger that. We're good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the double took him out. It was now, you know, just certainly a good buddy of yours. It was a great buddy of mine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was like, who is this guy? He's staring at me. I don't know if he likes me. I can already tell. And Tony was like, listen, he's good to go. Don't you worry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Expected us to be hard, you know, when guys wanted to get soft and hey, you know, do we really need to push ourselves hard? Like, no, we're going to be hard. And, and, uh, you know, in his thick, uh, New Hampshire, New Hampshire accent, he'd say, you better get your can of hide.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] BTF. Big Tough Frogman. And uh, when Tony would say that, like, hey,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's going to be tough. We better, you know, we're going to carry a lot of these roads were so dangerous. We didn't drive this. We would foot patrol in for, you know, kilometers, uh, carrying heavy gear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tons of water with us. We had to bring all that stuff in and it was just, uh, it was tough. It was difficult and, uh, we were going to BTF and we took pride in that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Every single time with, with great, tremendous discipline. I talked about him in force and standards. Hey, uh, we just got done with an op. Everyone's tired. Everybody's exhausted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Drop your gear is what you tell everybody and you know, 10 minutes, I want you in the mission planning space and we go through that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's the enemy doing now that we hadn't seen before? How can we adapt to that every single time? There was no cut in the corners. We, we did that every time we could do it in kind of a short, concise, concise form, but he'd be happy. We just got back from now. We just went out and did some damage and then you could track Tony's like happiness factor. It was inversely proportional, proportional.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His happiness factor was inversely proportional to the amount of time we spent in the camp. So as the longer we stayed in the camp, he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like getting angry. I'm getting angry. You know, and if we had an op canceled, which was pretty rare, but every once in a while we'd have a night where we didn't go out and, uh, and he, he, he would just be angry. I want to go out. I want to go get some. Why are we in the cab?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but they were a critical, critical part of the team and that it's not...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, as we kind of back to what we were talking about with American Sniper earlier, I mean, I think Chris would be the first person to tell you that this is a team effort. It is a huge team effort. And so we could have done it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The snipers couldn't have done any of the stuff they were doing without the machine gunners, without the guys carrying the rockets, without the guys carrying the radio and all the heavy equipment that goes with that. And, uh, you know, the corpsman that's carrying his, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, all of his equipment. We couldn't have done any of that as SEALs without the support from the Army and Marine Corps and what the support those guys brought to us. And so it was a massive, massive team effort. And just particularly those guys in, in charter platoon, I was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just could have been more proud of our guys, uh, going through some incredibly difficult situations and stepping up and getting the job done and making the best of a very bad situation, doing what they need to do. And, uh, it is, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was just an honor. It was an honor to serve with those guys. It'll always be. We had some horrific days. I would do anything to trade those days. I'd do anything to trade places with, with Mark Lee and, and, uh, and with Ryan Jobe and Charlie Platoon who gave their lives.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But most of those days were the best days of my life and always will be. And, uh, it was just such an honor and a privilege to be a part of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And thank you Jocko Willick for being our leader, for training us, for teaching us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This default aggressive mindset to go out on the battlefield, into the fray, into the worst, most dangerous areas and make a difference and win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I can tell you that was, uh, you read your speech earlier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My generation of seals and every seal that I knew or worked with about what that meant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it really captures so much of what we think in a way that maybe other


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Folks couldn't articulate it, but it certainly captured the message of what SEALs should be doing. The nature of war.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To give a speech as well at that, uh, that retirement ceremony.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But as you packed your bags and retired and left the SEAL teams, I remember thinking, it's a sad day in the Jocko-less SEAL teams.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it really, it really was, but you certainly left your mark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the SEAL teams, not only for me and all the guys from TU Bruiser that we serve with, but the generations of SEALs that you trained, that you passed on those leadership lessons are too. So we thank you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but uh, look, I think it's, it's just a different, it's a different job. You're going to always.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, as a, as an officer straight out of a commissioning source, I had to lean on those. I had to lean on those chiefs. I had to lean on those leading petty officers, those folks who had experience who could help me and guide me. And you know, no matter who you are, you're not going to have it all figured out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and it's something that you talk about often, we talk about often and when we work with companies. So having run our.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For, you know, from every commissioning source that graduates from the SEAL training pipeline goes through this course. Uh, it was about a five week course, four week of classroom, one week of, uh, of field training exercise where we're kind of out in the field and putting these guys through some, some challenges. And I led that for two years. I instructed that course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think we put 130 something officers to that and the best officer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had some great officers that went through that and probably the best officer I put through was a prior enlisted seal. We had some officers that struggled and probably the guy who struggled the most.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was another prior enlisted seal. Both these guys had been prior enlisted in a commission officer. So it just goes to show you that you've every source, whether it's a Naval Academy,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whether it's prior listed and going to Seaman Admiral program, whether it's coming in through OCS, Officer Candidate School or ROTC universities, you've got outstanding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People that come out of those, those commissioning sources. You got some people that aren't that good that come out of those commissioning sources. So it's about you. And, uh, and I think it's, it's kind of immaterial.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anywhere. I mean, across the world, human beings, uh, in any kind of leadership capacity, in any capacity, in business or life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Groups from China and, uh, spoken in Canada, I mean, across the world, uh, we're, we're leaders or leaders are dealing with the same kind of problems, same kind of issues. Uhm, this is not universal. It only applies to America. It applies anywhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I like the coffee bar reading extreme ownership in Germany. So, I mean, this is, uh, it's everywhere. And, uh, and I think leaders who seek...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, to be better. I mean, this, this book is for them. The principles in this book are for them. And a lot of the companies we work with, they, even if they're based in the US, they have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have ties to other countries, manufacturing plants in Mexico or China or, you know, across the world and do business across the Atlantic coast, across the Pacific Ocean. I mean, it's a very international interconnected world out there. And, and, uh, I mean, there's most of the companies we're working with these days have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, for those folks that didn't really get tested in combat or didn't get a chance to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go out on the battlefield and experience the just incredible physical nature of combat and how difficult it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, then, you know, Buds is like everything. And so they talk about Buds all the time. And so it's kind of this legendary thing. Look, it's a great training program. It's been around for a long time. It, uh, it screens out the people that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't have the characteristics as Jaco said that we think are going to be successful and it works and we should keep those standards high.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and we should push that. I thought Buds was a pretty good time. We had some great times at Buds. I love the guys I went through Buds with. Uhm, most of them and, and, uh, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, it's got nothing on combat. And you know, it's interesting that some of the big political, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, discussions today. You know, one of the, one of them is the integration of women into the SEAL teams and to special operations into infantry units.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, well, if they can meet standards and, and if they're, uh, you know, if, if.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If, if they can make it through training, then they should be, they should be, uh, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They should be able to go out and serve, right? And they're focused on training and the people are talking about training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the highest levels because they don't know what it's like to be in a real combat and real combat is infinitely harder than the toughest. I mean, why aren't we talking about integrating the NFL?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got huge, big, strong guys that are smashing each other. And yet that's, you know, maybe you get a concussion, maybe you tear your ACL, maybe you break your, your elbow, uh, you know, or snap up, snap your wrist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, you know, bugs is, uh, carry some logs, man. Don't, don't quit. Okay. I mean, it's, it's make it through, you know, it's, uh, combat where you're, you're.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you'll see it too, guys who excelled in buds, because they're great athletes, sometimes will go to the battlefield and are like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember the first time that an IED, I saw an IED going off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And all of a sudden, there's a hundred foot fireball that goes up in the air. I mean the blast wave hits me and just knocks me on my ass. And frag, just metal fragments and shards of concrete and stuff is just raining down all over the place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From, from a block away, you know, from us and, uh, it was, it was like, damn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is, that is not something I want to be standing on or riding a vehicle when you hit that thing. And when you see something like that, or like, just,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The kinetic energy of a round is coming in and just, you know, think of the biggest, strongest guy you can imagine with a sledgehammer just smashing a wall next to you and, uh, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Multiply that times 700 or 800 rounds a minute for a belt fit machine gun. I mean, it's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Overwhelming. And so you see some of the toughest guys that did well on Buds are like, ooh.


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[Assistant] Not necessarily eager to go out in that. And so it's a whole new level of difficulty.


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[Assistant] And, uh, and it's, it's just, uh, it can't be overstated. So I think that it's, it's, uh, the difficulties of combat, again, just cannot be overstated. People need to understand what the reality of that is like. And I think this idea that America's not gonna, oh, we kind of dictate the nature of wars and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, as we've been told, the tide of war is receding and it's just not true. As Jaco said in his retirement speech.


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[Assistant] The nature of war does not change and we're going to always have to fight wars. We're going to always have to be in difficult conflicts. We don't get to choose that. And so we better be ready for those, those difficulties.


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[Assistant] And it's not about technology either. You know, some of the guys that don't make it through that training think, oh man, if I just, if I could just get through somehow and I'll get all this cool gear and I'll have night vision and lasers and I'll be bad ass. And it's like, it's not about that. And while we need to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the people that matter. It's leadership at all levels that matter. You know, one of my favorite quotes from, uh, the hero of the Pacific war.


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[Assistant] Who was in charge of, of, of the entire, he was the, the commander in chief of, of all forces, U.S. forces of the Pacific, a guy named Chester Nimitz, fleet admiral Chester Nimitz, good old boy from, from central Texas. And, uh.


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[Assistant] He said our armament must be adequate to the needs.


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[Assistant] But our faith is not primarily in these machines of defense but in ourselves.


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[Assistant] And I mean, that's, that's just exactly true. And we've gotta, we've gotta always push those standards, keep those standards high, prepare people for.


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[Assistant] Demanding it is and crushing it can be and be ready. So then we can execute and we can win.


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[Assistant] You know, as we were talking about Chris and the kind of portrayal of an American sniper as a sniper, you've got to have that entire element working together. You've got to have those machine gunners, you've got to have the corpsman, you've got to have the radioman who's passing position and you know, we're telling


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[Assistant] Telling friendlies where you are so you can get help, you know, directing, uh,


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[Assistant] Uh, helping where you need it, you know, and telling where the enemy is. I mean, all that stuff is absolutely critical. I think as a, as far as a favorite specialty, uhm, I like to shoot.


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[Assistant] You know, training in combat, rifle, pistol, shooting it, you know, moving and hitting different targets and shooting against steel targets. And we go to these amazing ranges and it's super fun. Uh, and that being said, that's not my job. And that is, uh,


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[Assistant] That's a real realization you have to come to as a leader is that my job is not to shoot and I gotta be able to shoot because there are times when I've, I'm the only guy who can do that and I've got to be able to eliminate a threat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I've gotta be able to do it accurately. So I have to be able to do that, just like everybody else.


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[Assistant] But that's not my job. And I really learned that in our advanced training. You know, after Buds, there's a, another six months of what we call steel qualification training and, and, uh, one of my instructors, uh,


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[Assistant] You know, as Jacque and I often say, failure is sometimes the best teacher. Often the best teacher.


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[Assistant] And, uh, I remember I was trying to shoot, lay down fire for my squad. We're under fire, we're shooting. And then I was actually trying to look around. And I got a safety violation for that.


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[Assistant] For like trying to shoot rounds downrange and trying to look around. It's like, guess what? You can't do both.


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[Assistant] And I was like, Roger that. I should have gotten a safety violation. It's dangerous. You never want to pull the trigger on your weapon if you're not looking down your weapon, controlling where the sights are. And it was exactly what it should have, you know, what should have happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it was a realization of me, like, I can't do both, and why do I need to be shooting right now? Because there's like,


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[Assistant] And there's nobody else that's looking around. It's my job to high port my weapon, which means it's pointed at this guy. And I gotta be looking around, take a step back off the line. Jaco often talks about detach.


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[Assistant] You have to understand the specialties. You have to understand how that stuff works, what the capabilities and limitations of your guys are, you know, of the, of the departments and the team of the, of the, the assets that you have within your team. Um, but you, you don't,


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[Assistant] You can't get sucked into the details. You have to stand back and high port your weapon. Detach yourself.


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[Assistant] And be the command control to make those big strategic decisions.


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[Assistant] You're going to be overwhelmed. I mean, you can't do it all. And it's, and so anything in life is like this.


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[Assistant] When you know, you know, as a platoon commander, I have got two junior officers who are my assistant platoon commanders and they've, they don't have the experience I have. This is their first deployment.


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[Assistant] And teach them how to be a platoon commander and empower them and train them and mentor them. I'm sure it was incredibly difficult. In fact, I know.


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[Assistant] It was incredible for Jaco who had a lot of experience and a lot of direct action capture kill missions, uh, you know, in Iraq.


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[Assistant] To let me be a platoon commander to go out and plan and run that stuff. Uhm, but you have to do that and, and so.


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[Assistant] You have to train people. We always talk about how leaders have to work themselves out of a job. That's what they should be doing. You have to do that.


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[Assistant] To grow and learn and take on greater responsibilities so that you can constantly look up and out and then you can grow and learn and take on greater responsibility.


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[Assistant] Understood what his role was and realized that if he was out there with me, even though it had been fun, he'd been getting gunfights and, and that was exactly where he wanted to be, that he wouldn't be able to provide that support to some of the other guys and what they were doing. And so, uh, so he couldn't do that. And so it was, I know that was incredibly difficult for you.


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[Assistant] You didn't trust us. No, not true at all. Uhm, that, uh, Jocko was the opposite of that, but this is, uh,


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[Assistant] Listen, the answer is pretty easy, and this is something that Jaco taught me. Because I have a hard time with this, like-


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[Assistant] Who cares who gets the credit for it? It's about the mission and whether or not you accomplish the mission. And guess what? If you go out and accomplish the mission,


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[Assistant] The guy who's in charge is going to get the credit for it regardless, right? So that's okay and you can't worry about that.


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[Assistant] The more you accomplish that mission, the credibility will be shared, the truth will be seen.


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[Assistant] Uh, and, and you're gonna get, you, you will, uh, reap the rewards, your team will reap the rewards from that regardless of whether it's the, the overbearing boss or not, who's trying to be the credit hog. And so you just can't worry about that. You have to put your ego in check. You got to make your boss look good and you got to accomplish the mission.


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[Assistant] Jaco, you talked about this when you were reading the maxims of Napoleon.


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[Assistant] Of orders from his superiors gives battle with a certainty of defeat of his army's ruin is culpable. And I think that's exactly true.


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[Assistant] And what that really means is extreme ownership. You own it regardless. And so, you know, in the military, you've got to.


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[Assistant] You're obligated to not follow a, a illegal order. So if someone gives you an order to go execute prisoners or do something that you shouldn't do, uhm, you actually are legally obligated to not follow that and, and, and that following orders, like, you know, whether you're


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[Assistant] Uh, and it didn't work in Nuremberg, right, for the SS guards who sent people to their desks and say, oh, it's just following orders. It's not, uh, that is not a defense. So you have to, it's on you. It's, it's your responsibility. Um, and it's certainly under our own UCMJ. Uh, it's, it's, it's on you. And I think in those kinds of situations, you, you have to own that. If it's truly bad, if it's truly catastrophic, you have to be willing to take the punishment.


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[Assistant] You wanna punish me for that? Okay, cool. You wanna fire me? I'm not gonna do that cause I'm gonna sleep better at night knowing that I made the right decision. I'm not gonna go down this path that leads to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the destruction of our team that puts people in harm's way that puts, you know, that causes people to do something that's unsafe and puts them in jeopardy. And, uh, and you gotta be able to stare yourself in the mirror. And that's most important. Oh, you want to fire me for that? Okay, cool. I'll take that. Now some people.


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[Assistant] You have to understand that you gotta prioritize. And there are those people that are like, over the top, everything is like,


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[Assistant] People are shocked to hear about what it's like going to war.


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[Assistant] Today's world, the administrative requirements that are on you.


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[Assistant] Uh, all the things that we had to do, uh, that are required on us, and we're in the middle of a war. And guess what? We bitched and griped about that all the time.


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[Assistant] I'm gonna, I'm gonna take, I'm gonna take a 25 man element of US special operators and we'll take three Iraqis with us. Just to, just to kind of check the box.


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[Assistant] All the little stuff that all, you know, other people would say, oh, we don't want to do this paperwork or that's too much. And they complain. We had done that. We had done those little things.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's a pain for us. Do I want to do that? Of course not. I'd rather be training doing other stuff, but we're going to do it. And so because Jaco had set that standard and we made it happen, then when we really push back for the stuff that really mattered, which is what I was talking about, you got to prioritize and execute, prioritize the stuff that really matters.


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[Assistant] We were able to get that approved and guess what? They didn't want us to go out and get killed. So, we explained it up to Chan and like, listen, if we do that, we're gonna, we're gonna get a lot of guys killed by doing that.


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[Assistant] And look, you have to, you have to be effective. We, we talk about there's two, there's only two.


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[Assistant] Measures that really, that matter and that's effective and ineffective. Are you effective? Are you accomplishing the mission? And if you are, figure out a way to become even more effective. If you're ineffective, you're not accomplishing the mission, then


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[Assistant] You can't tolerate less than that. As a leader, you have to drive those standards.


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[Assistant] I learned pretty early on that in the SEAL teams.


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[Assistant] There's some strong personalities there. Which is awesome. That's one of the great things about the SEAL teams. And there's always this tension between


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[Assistant] People have their mind, we should do it this way, or we should do it this way, or we should train this hard, or we should focus here or there.


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[Assistant] You have got to maintain the standards and there's some, there are standards that just cannot be compromised. You've got to push hard.


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[Assistant] You've got to drive that performance. You got to set the tone for that. And if you don't do that, no one's going to do it. So it's not what you preach. It's not the words that you say. It's not the email that you sent. It's not the banner.


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[Assistant] It's actually what you tolerate. It's the performance that you see. And if it's substandard.


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[Assistant] You gotta push again. And you gotta push again. You gotta set that bar high.


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[Assistant] You can't be a slave driver. You can't destroy your team. You can't be overbearing. But for those things that really matter, pushing performance to the next level, you have got to set that standard.


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[Assistant] And I think that's what makes truly the best military units, the best teams out there great. It's not what you preach, it's what you tolerate.


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[Assistant] Oh yeaah, I was wondering, what do y'all find the most offensive insult? No, cause I want to know. Cause I'm trying to, you know, asking for a friend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Y'all play it nice and y'all let the, y'all let the girl roast the fuck out of you basically.


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[Assistant] In what instance? Like if you got a real life boyfriend or if you talking to a mother, so say like you're just talking to somebody. Or whatever and y'all post a link or whatever and you curve. Like that's the fuck up to me. Uhm. What if I was busy?


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[Assistant] But why are you busy? Because we agreed that we was on it. You know what I'm saying? Like we was gonna meet.


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[Assistant] If that nigga take you out the country, bitch, you know what's up, but I haven't been out in 10 years.


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[Assistant] One of them had posted, what's the most beautiful song you ever heard?


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[Assistant] Videos just available to everybody. They do. It is, it is crazy.


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[Assistant] Why even do it? Yeah. I wouldn't say it's the fuel, I'd say it's the fire.


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[Assistant] I agree with you. Gotta, gotta know the jiu jitsu.


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[Assistant] What supplements do you take? Well, my number one supplement is steak.


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[Assistant] This is Jocko podcast number nine with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink.


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[Assistant] Perhaps I stabbed our savior in his sacred helpless side, yet have called his name and blessing when in aftertimes I died.


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[Assistant] Through the travail of the ages, midst the pomp and toil of war, have I fought and strove and perished countless times upon this star.


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[Assistant] I have sinned and I have suffered, played the hero and the knave, fought for belly, shame, or country, and for each have found a grave. So as through a glass and darkly, the age-long strife I see,


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[Assistant] So forever in the future shall I battle as of your dying to be born a fighter, but to die again once more.


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[Assistant] And that is a poem by General George S. Patton.


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[Assistant] About the podcast and about the direction and about the things and about what we talk about and what I talk about and I was actually have been looking for a


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[Assistant] For a non-military book, for a book that talks about the same kind of things that I think about, but it's not about war because


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[Assistant] There's a very small population that are engaged in war. In real war. So I've been looking for a book and I've got a bunch of books. Books that I enjoy and books that I like and I've been looking for a, uh, a good book. That is not a war book.


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[Assistant] And I had some close ones. And maybe they'll make the cut.


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[Assistant] Because, quite simply, war is at another level. It's not better, and it's not a good thing, and I don't worship war, but it is, in fact, the ultimate human struggle.


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[Assistant] Is at once the game and the authority and the justification.


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[Assistant] Seen so, war is the truest form of divination.


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[Assistant] Because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence. War is God.


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[Assistant] Now I'm going to tell you, I'm not going to go into blood Meridian tonight. Blood Meridian. I've talked about it.


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[Assistant] On a couple occasions and one day we will.


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[Assistant] And it's probably going to take multiple shows and it's going to take research, but that is a heavy, heavy book that is thick with content and meaning and words that are powerful.


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[Assistant] And that's a tiny slice of blood meridian.


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[Assistant] And it's the same thing. I, I wanna be fully prepared and I'm either gonna do, maybe I won't be fully prepared to do the whole thing, but maybe we'll take chunks. Yeah. Of.


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[Assistant] That's why, you know, that's why we're not talking about a business book tonight. That's why we're not talking about a business leader. That's why we're not talking about a sports leader. That's why we're not talking about, uh,


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[Assistant] A public figure that had to struggle through whatever to get to the top of the mountain they were climbing.


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[Assistant] War is not god like Judge Holden describes it in Blood Meridian, but it certainly is a powerful force and it certainly is the ultimate struggle.


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[Assistant] Against other humans that want to end your life, and that's it.


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[Assistant] And that poem, you know, obviously in Patton's mind, he was a warrior before, over and over again.


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[Assistant] I've been a soldier for hundreds and thousands of years. And before I do jump into Patton, I do the tankers, the tankers of the world, the U.S. military. We worked with the 11AD, the 1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division.


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[Assistant] The 68 ton Abrams main battle tank with a giant turbine engine grinding the street apart as they come to support and rescue and save the seals, which they did over and over again. And there was no


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[Assistant] Because the George C. Scott movie was released when I was a kid and to this day, I remember watching that for the first time and being, you know,


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[Assistant] And when you stick your hand into a bunch of goo that a moment ago was your best friend's face, then you'll know what to do.


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[Assistant] We watched it in Ramadi with the boys. Just to get fired up. And, and it is a great movie. But let's talk about the real Patton, who actually


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[Assistant] In many ways was more colorful and more charismatic and really larger in life, in real life.


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[Assistant] Then, George C. Scott and the movie could make him out to be.


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[Assistant] He's a, he's a mysterious guy with a lot of different facets to him. So I'm going to kick this off. So we're going to the book, George S. Patton, war as I knew it.


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[Assistant] And uh, interestingly, this book was given to me by Leif.


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[Assistant] Leif Babin who wrote Extreme Ownership with me and who served with me in Ramadi and is one of my brothers. So.


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[Assistant] This is from Patton to his troops. Soldiers of the 7th Army.


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[Assistant] Born at sea, baptized in blood and crowned with victory. In the course of 38 days of incessant battle and unceasing labor, you have added a glorious chapter to the history of war.


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[Assistant] Pitted against the best Germans and Italians could offer.


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[Assistant] You have been unfailingly successful. The rapidity of your dash, which culminated in the capture of Palermo, was equalled by the dogged tenacity with which you stormed Trinia and captured Messina.


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[Assistant] Every man in the army deserves equal credit. The enduring valor of the infantry and the impetus ferocity of the tanks were matched by the tireless clamor of our destroying guns. The engineers performed prodigies in the construction and maintenance of impossible roads over impossible country.


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[Assistant] The services of maintenance and supply performed a miracle. The signal correlated over 10,000 miles of wire. And the medical department evacuated and cared for our sick and wounded.


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[Assistant] On all occasions, the Navy has given generous and gallant support.


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[Assistant] Throughout the operation our air has kept the sky clear and tirelessly supported the operation of the ground troops. As a result of this combined effort, you have killed or captured


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 113,350 enemy troops. You've destroyed 265 of his tanks, 2,324 vehicles, and 1,162 large guns. And in addition, you've collected a massive military booty running into the hundreds of tons.


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[Assistant] But your victory has a significance be above and beyond its physical aspect. You have destroyed the prestige of the enemy.


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[Assistant] The President of the United States, the Secretary of War, the Chief of Staff, General Eisenhower, General Alexander, General Montgomery, have all congratulated you. Your fame shall never die. G.S. Patton Jr., Lieutenant General, U.S. Army, commanding.


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[Assistant] So you were talking about getting fired up and what he would do to get people fired up?


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[Assistant] Obviously a very skilled writer with great command of the language. Can you even imagine what you'd feel like hearing that address to you and your people, you and your troops, you and your brothers?


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[Assistant] Few military figures in history have laid siege to the public imagination more relentlessly than George S. Patton Jr. Half a century after his exploits in North Africa, on Sicily and across occupied Europe, his name still evokes the dash and brew of a cavalry, cavalry charge.


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[Assistant] He is widely considered the best field commander in the American army of World War II and he is certainly one of


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[Assistant] One of the most feared by the Germans who paid him the compliment before Normandy of massing defenses against a non-existent army patent group.


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[Assistant] By V.E. Day in 1945, he commanded 18 divisions and 540,000 soldiers, a force comparable to the size


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[Assistant] Of the American military at its peak in Vietnam.


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[Assistant] The New York Times declared in his obituary,


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[Assistant] History has reached out and embraced General George Patton. His place is secure. He was not a man of peace.


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[Assistant] A man of peace he was not, but his legacy clearly transcends his military conquests.


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[Assistant] He was complex and contradictory, larger than life and yet all too human. It is the patent paradox that trans fixes and this is


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[Assistant] Something that we've talked about before on this podcast and it's something that I talk about all the time. And that is people's strengths can be their weaknesses. And you get a guy like Patton who's hyper aggressive.


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[Assistant] And that actually ends up being a negative in some cases, even though it's extremely positive in others. Back to the book. A warlord fighting in the name of democracy.


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[Assistant] He was also an unrepentant aristocratic snob.


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[Assistant] This is a guy that, and they talk about this some more, but a guy that was like proud of soldiers almost to a fault. He revered soldiers and yet he's an aristocrat.


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[Assistant] His devotion to common soldiers bordered on reverence, yet his slapping of two enlisted men nearly caused him to sit out the war in disgrace. And we'll get into that a little bit more.


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[Assistant] As a wealthy child of privilege and the husband of an heiress, at home in society's most fashionable salons, he could also be crude, rude, and plain foolish. His humility seemed heartfelt.


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[Assistant] Yet he acknowledged an overdeveloped personal ambition and once confessed, I don't like the dirt at all except as a means to fame.


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[Assistant] So like I said, this guy is a complex guy. This isn't assault of the earth. David Hackworth guy that you never got that from him. You never got that from like a guy like Hackworth.


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[Assistant] That he had any sort of quest for glory.


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[Assistant] He just a complete opposite. And that's why Patton for me is a, is not a pure figure.


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[Assistant] You know? Not that I would really say that I can think of any pure figures, but he's definitely a very faulted...


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[Assistant] And he had some of me, I mean, obviously, here I am.


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[Assistant] A complete idiot loser sitting here calling, uh, you know, general George S. Patton, George S. Patton saying he's a faulted leader. So don't get me, don't get me wrong here. The guy was unbelievably, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a warrior, back to the book, as a warrior, his fundamental prescription for waging war involved the violent attacks everywhere with everything.


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[Assistant] Yet he considered the carpet bomb, bombing of German cities to be barbaric, useless and sadistic.


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[Assistant] So that's, that's a contradiction. Don't hear very much about them. And here's how you seen by the higher ups a little bit. Eisenhower.


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[Assistant] Who once referred to Patton as this mentally unbalanced officer also told George Marshall, Patton is a problem child, but he is great. He is a great fighting leader in pursuit and exploitation.


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[Assistant] A division commander described the general as invaluable in war, but a disturbing element in times of peace. And to that, Patton was flattered.


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[Assistant] Treasuremost came from one of his soldiers before the allied invasion of France.


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[Assistant] Here is a man for whom you would go to hell and back. So clearly to his troops, they held him in very high regard.


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[Assistant] Quote from Patton, may God have mercy on my enemies. They will need it. That's


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[Assistant] That's the kind of thing that, that when he says people, you know, the frontline troopers are going to hear that and say, yes, we are ready to roll.


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[Assistant] Uh, he also said leadership is a thing that wins battles. I have it. But I'll be damned if I can define it.


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[Assistant] In Patton's career, we see certain trademarks, a relentless aggression, and faith in the offensive.


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[Assistant] Common theme that we talk about all the time, being on offense, being aggressive, and Patton was an absolute, probably, I think he is probably the most aggressive.


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[Assistant] Of, of the people that we've talked about and of pretty much I think of anyone I've ever heard of.


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[Assistant] And we see too the creeping arrogance, the hubris, which would cost the American army so dearly in Vietnam.


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[Assistant] Summing up the achievements of his troops in crushing the German counterattack of December 1944.


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[Assistant] Patent with partnerable pride claims to have moved farther and faster and engage more divisions in less time than any other army in the history of the United States, possibly in the history of the world. No country can stand against such an army. This smug pride.


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[Assistant] The disease of victory. And I love that. That's a, that's a little something we should all remember. The disease of victory. Victory is supposed to be all positive, but guess what? There's something called the disease of victory.


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[Assistant] Back to the book, this disease of victory would rot the army from within leading future commanders to underestimate their enemies and overestimate their own battlefield prowess. Tragically, the only antidote to this disease of victory would be the humiliation of defeat.


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[Assistant] We see that sometimes in sports. We see it in sports, we see it in business.


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[Assistant] Sometimes people need to get humbled. And when they get humbled, they get arrogant from the victories.


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[Assistant] And then they get humbled and they get back in the game and they realize what they have to do to win.


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[Assistant] Back to the book. His passion for military life ran so deep that he considered it as natural for me to be a soldier as to breathe.


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[Assistant] War, he claimed, is the only place where a man really lives.


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[Assistant] Beyond a keen interest in technological developments of armored vehicles and airplanes, he retained a near fanatical belief in the importance of being mentally and physically ready to fight.


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[Assistant] Even in war-weary 1920s, he admonished junior officers, you must school yourself to savagery.


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[Assistant] And speaking of savagery, this is the, the slaps when he slapped these young enlisted troopers.


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[Assistant] The infamous slaps heard round the world. Patton's memoir gives the episode short shrift, but it nearly wrecked his life.


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[Assistant] In early August, while visiting wounded troops on Sicily, the commander cuffed a soldier who had been diagnosed as suffering from battle fatigue. Patton called it cowardice.


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[Assistant] Further examination revealed the man had malaria and dysentery. A week later, Patton repeated his behavior with another soldier and this time made motions to draw his pistol as if to shoot the wretch.


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[Assistant] Patent publicly apologized, but remained privately unrepentant.


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[Assistant] Had other officers had the courage to do likewise, he wrote.


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[Assistant] The shameful use of battle fatigue as an excuse for cowardice would have been infinitely reduced.


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[Assistant] So that was a significant incident that he.


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[Assistant] You know, he publicly apologized but he obviously didn't really mean that. He felt he had done the right thing.


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[Assistant] But still, there was much glory to be won. Patton's exploit in the Battle of the Bulge, abruptly wheeling his army around and driving 100 miles through the icy Ardennes to hit the Germans in the flank with 17 divisions, remains among the most storied campaigns in modern warfare.


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[Assistant] Europe was now almost an occupied state in many places and as


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[Assistant] As people talked about patent being good for war, but not being good for peace. And that turned out to be pretty accurate.


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[Assistant] No longer able to attack, he indeed became bullious. Patton was arrogant, defiant, and erratic as the summer of 1945 passed.


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[Assistant] And that's kind of the intro on Patton. Now, going back now to the beginning of the war.


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[Assistant] He says, have been giving everyone a simplified directive of war.


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[Assistant] Use steamroller strategy. That is, make up your mind on course and direction of action and stick to it. But, in tactics, do not steamroller. Attack weakness.


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[Assistant] Hold them by the nose and kick them in the pants. This is something that we talk about all the time. It's, it's, it's flanking people. It's not keeping, not going into their strengths and keep attacking their strengths. No, you, you attack their strengths.


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[Assistant] To keep them occupied, but then you come around to the flank, you know, it's in jujitsu, you attack the arm and you get the neck or you attack the neck and you get the arm.


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[Assistant] In combat, it's flanking. That's what it is. And he was a master of this and pushed it very, very hard.


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[Assistant] What he says are his reflections and suggestions. And if in this book, if you, if you do end up getting this book, uh, I'm basically skipping the war part.


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[Assistant] The entire book is about what he did and how he did it. And I'm skipping that.


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[Assistant] And I've said this before because I like to know about what they did and how they did it because that is important.


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[Assistant] But I like to know why they did it and what they were thinking and what principles they were following. And this book beautifully breaks it down. Again, it's written by him.


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[Assistant] But it breaks down what he was thinking. Why he did take these actions and what his strategies and tactics were.


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[Assistant] Saying something that's very similar to what Leif and I say in the beginning of our book, which is like, we didn't invent this stuff.


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[Assistant] Probably there is nothing original in what I shall now put down because war is an ancient subject and I, an ancient man.


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[Assistant] Have studied and practiced it for over 40 years.


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[Assistant] So what appears to me as original thought may, may be simply subconscious memories. So he's saying, I didn't necessarily think of all this. Then Leif and I in the beginning of our book say the same thing.


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[Assistant] Concerning the soldier. The soldier is the army. No army is better than its soldiers.


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[Assistant] The soldier is also a citizen. In fact, the highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms for one's country.


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[Assistant] Hence it is a privilege to be a soldier. A good soldier. To be a good soldier.


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[Assistant] A man must have discipline, self-respect, pride in his unit and his country.


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[Assistant] A high sense of duty and obligation to his comrades and to his superiors and self-confidence born of demonstrated ability.


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[Assistant] Characteristic was discipline, which should come as no surprise.


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[Assistant] There has been and is now a great deal of talk about discipline, but few people in or out of the army know what it is or why it is necessary.


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[Assistant] No sane man is unafraid in battle.


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[Assistant] The greatest military virtue results from the demonstrated ability derived from the acquisition of all the preceding qualities.


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[Assistant] And from the, from exercise in the use of weapons.


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[Assistant] So self-confidence comes from practice and skill and that's derived from discipline.


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[Assistant] Discipline is clearly a subject we talk about quite a bit. And its importance in the military is


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[Assistant] Cannot be overstated. It really can't be. And I would go so far as to tell you that discipline's importance in life cannot be overstated.


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[Assistant] The root of all good characteristics is the discipline.


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[Assistant] Battles are won by fire and by movement. The purpose of movement is to get the fire in a more advantageous place to play on the enemy. This is from the rear or the flank. You're gonna hear this guy talk about flanks all the time. He's gonna talk about fire moves, he's gonna talk about cover move.


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[Assistant] Cover and move. And this is, again, this is teamwork.


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[Assistant] Teamwork, constantly working with your...


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[Assistant] Team and your other teams that are with you to make sure that if I'm putting down cover fire, you're moving. You're moving.


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[Assistant] Multiple little units in it that have to cover and move.


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[Assistant] If we take the generally accepted definition of bravery as a quality which knows not fear, I have never seen a brave man. All men are frightened. The more intelligent they are, the more frightened they are.


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[Assistant] The courageous man is the man who forces himself, in spite of his fear, to carry on.


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[Assistant] It comes from discipline, pride, self-respect, self-confidence, and the love of glory.


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[Assistant] Our attributes, which will make a man courageous, even when he is afraid. There's not too many people. I mean, you would, Hackworth would never talk about the love of glory. Just not, not his deal. Not his deal.


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[Assistant] Although I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. Because... There's guys that are...


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[Assistant] You know, he says he's never seen anyone that's not, not afraid. I've seen some pretty, I mean, it's almost the word to use, it's like crazy. Guys that are just so brave and you look at them and they, they, you go, this guy's gonna,


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[Assistant] This guy, I had guys with me, you know, in my task unit and some of those guys were so brave that I didn't think they were going to make it home.


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[Assistant] Almost a lack of self-preservation. Right. You know, not, not stupid.


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[Assistant] Not, not suicidal, but like, Oh, this guy doesn't think he can be killed. You know, we were talking about that on the last podcast and I forget the name of the major that was on the beach landing at Tarawa, I think. And he's up and he's like, Hey, look, they can't hit me. Come on. I've seen guys do that.


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[Assistant] And I don't know if it matters. For one thing I can tell you, the guy that's acting like he's not scared is probably the one that's more scared with MMA fights. And I actually see that combat too, guys that are


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[Assistant] Uhm, you know, I've seen guys sitting in briefs to go out on operations that you can tell are, are, are petrified.


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[Assistant] Usually it's a guy that's not used to it.


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[Assistant] Maybe, maybe someone that's visiting an area of operations and shows up and it's, oh we're gonna take you on an operation.


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[Assistant] Because they're not used to it. All the guys from my task unit, you know, they might be scared but they're confident, they know what they're doing.


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[Assistant] They're, they've put that fear aside over and over again. So it's not that big of a deal, but you see a guy dealing with that fear for the first time.


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[Assistant] And especially stands out because you've got a bunch of confident guys that, that know, that understand, that understand the risks so you can see their faces. Then you see like that guy that's come in from another area and is going to go out on operation and, and their


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[Assistant] They're tapping their toes during the brief and they're looking around and they gotta overcome that fear. And if they stay there for a few weeks though, they'll get used to it too.


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[Assistant] And you're horrified to go charge it, and I'm not. And we both go charge it.


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[Assistant] You just had to pretend that you weren't scared. It doesn't matter. You were still being brave.


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[Assistant] And, and I didn't have to pretend, but I'm being brave. So it doesn't matter whether you're pretending or not, you're brave if you go.


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[Assistant] Generally speaking, like, you know, it's a good example. Skydivers. Yeah. Skydivers with 5,000 jumps. They're not right. They're not scared anymore.


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[Assistant] I mean, I know even when I've done like, you know, 50 jumps, you're not really scared anymore.


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[Assistant] Right. You're just doing it. And guys that have thousands jumped, they're not scared at all. That's what they do.


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[Assistant] So they're not being brave, they're just doing their job, they're just doing their thing.


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[Assistant] Section here, small unit tactics. And you know, I was questioning whether I wanted to put this in there, but I know that I'm getting a lot of feedback from guys that are in the military and guys that are in SWAT. And this is something that I used to talk about and I know it's true.


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[Assistant] Squads should seldom be split. So you want to keep your forces together as much as possible. However, if it is necessary to split a squad,


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[Assistant] Be sure that the unit separated as at least capable of mutual supports. This is something I used to hammer the seals about. If you get too far away from your other unit where you can't support them anymore.


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[Assistant] That's problematic now that, now that other units alone. And that means that each unit that's separate should have the ability to support. It means it has to have some firepower and some strength. This means that the unit separated from the squad should have not fewer than three men.


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[Assistant] The squad possesses in itself weapons necessary for a base and fire and maneuvering element.


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[Assistant] This should be an, this should be, this should be its invariable method of attack, but the squad leader should not spend so much time thinking which way he is going to envelop that he suffers casualties, which would have been avoided had he attacked at once. So don't hesitate. Don't sit around when it's time to get it on, get it on.


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[Assistant] Patton's all about the taking action. Another small unit tactic. This is a short one.


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[Assistant] Always capture the highest terrain feature in your vicinity at once.


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[Assistant] And stay on it. And that is something that we executed all the time.


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[Assistant] In Ramadi. Get in the high ground. Get in those buildings. Find the three story building amongst the two story buildings. Find the two story building amongst the one story building. Always looking for that high ground.


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[Assistant] The best is the enemy of the good. And these are, I mean, that's just a common saying now. The best is the enemy of the good.


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[Assistant] By this I mean that a good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan next week.


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[Assistant] War is a very simple thing, and the determining characteristics are self-confidence, speed, and audacity. None of these things can ever be perfect, but they can be good.


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[Assistant] He's talking about now general officers, meaning the senior leaders.


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[Assistant] And these apply to every leader, not just senior leaders.


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[Assistant] There are more tired division commanders than there are tired divisions. Tired officers are always pessimists. Remember this when evaluating reports.


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[Assistant] Generals must never show doubt, discouragement or fatigue.


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[Assistant] Generals should always adhere to one type of dress so that soldiers will recognize them. They must always be very neat.


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[Assistant] No, generally because you actually do have more work to do. You have, you have to have meetings in your office and


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[Assistant] And, and it's interesting too because, uh, I, I didn't highlight it in, in this, for this series, but they were saying that General Patton,


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[Assistant] Wasn't a four-star general, he was a 28-star general, because when he would put his full uniform on, he had four stars on his collar, on each collar, four stars on each shoulder, four stars on the helmet, and four stars on each one of the handles of his, of his pearl-handled pistol grip 45s.


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[Assistant] So the guy was, like a little bit of, I mean, that's a, that's a showman, that's a, that's a, that's a diva, right? So he didn't...


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[Assistant] You know, he knew that there's a certain amount of showmanship to being in a leadership position and that's sort of what he's talking about by being recognizable. I mean, he was very recognizable. He had stars all over his cars and everything.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but you could, you could as a CEO, you could absolutely take that to the wrong level where you're, you know, just living in total luxury and all your people are out and.


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[Assistant] You know, cramped into cubicles, that, you know, your folks would definitely look at you in a negative way.


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[Assistant] But to, but to have what's needed for the job?


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[Assistant] You know, when I was TU Commander, I had an office that was mine, you know, and I had space in there to work.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but I wasn't, you know, shipping in steaks for me to have every night while the men were eating. Right, right. MREs. Yeaah. So you just gotta be careful. Keep yourself in check a little bit.


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[Assistant] That once again, sometimes the, the boss is traveling in first class because when he lands, he's got to present.


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[Assistant] Sometimes the boss man is just sick of being cramped in the little tiny seats.


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[Assistant] But yea, you do gotta, you gotta keep that in check. And I'll tell you, when I was, when I, when I worked for the Admiral, of all the SEALs, we didn't fly first class.


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[Assistant] We were in the cheap seats. They are very careful about that. They don't want to think that they owe the military


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[Assistant] Elite is flying around first class. No, we were in the cheap seats, sitting in the back of Delta, you know, eating peanuts.


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[Assistant] But you just gotta use your judgment. You know, you gotta use your judgment and make sure that, you know, everyone's wearing, you know, a 10 year old field jacket when it gets cold and you're wearing a brand new down and Gore-Tex jacket.


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[Assistant] You know, you can't just deck yourself out when the boys or the troopers are suffering.


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[Assistant] But you do have to, you know, there's good, there's good business leaders now that follow this type of lead. I mean, look at some of these new younger business leaders. They're not getting decked out. I saw a picture of, uh,


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[Assistant] Assume the responsibility for failure, whether he deserves it or not and invariably gives credit for success to others, whether they deserve it or not, will achieve outstanding success.


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[Assistant] They don't say, oh, this is a very common theme that I've heard my whole life. No, they go, this is outstanding. And we're saying the exact same thing that general George is patent saying right here.


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[Assistant] Issuing orders. The best way to issue orders is by word of mouth from one general to the next. Failing this? Telephone conversations which should be recorded at each end.


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[Assistant] However, in order to have a confirmatory memorandum of all oral orders given, a short written order should always be made out. Not necessarily at the time of issuing the order, but it should reach the junior prior to carrying out the order. So that if he has forgotten anything, he will be reminded


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[Assistant] This is something that I used to do this all the time. If I had a conversation with my boss, I still do it to this day. If I have a conversation with someone and we talk about something, I'm following it up a little email.


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[Assistant] Because also oral conversations, people hear what they want to hear and they might hear two different things. You know, if I tell you, Hey, we're going to report, record this podcast. Hey, can we record this podcast on Saturday?


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[Assistant] Does that mean we are? Does that mean, in your mind you think we are, but I didn't come back, you know, so I just follow stuff up and I used to do that in SEAL teams too. You know, I'd get an order, I'd have a conversation with someone that was either above me or below me or whatever. I'd follow it up with an email.


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[Assistant] I thought the conversation meant and say, Hey, just to confirm what we talked about, here's the three bullet points. I'm going to do this. You're going to do that. We're going to do this and boom, it's done and we have a document of it and it exists and that way we're confirmed.


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[Assistant] It is my opinion that army orders should not exceed a page and a half of typewritten text.


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[Assistant] If you get someone that can't give you their orders in like a page, then that means their orders are too complicated. That means they need to simplify their plan.


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[Assistant] And he's gonna say this a few times. Commanders must remember that the issuance of an order or the devising of a plan is only about 5% of the responsibility of command.


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[Assistant] The other 95% is to ensure by personal observation or through interposing of staff officers that the order is carried out.


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[Assistant] Orders must be issued early enough to permit time to disseminate them. So he's saying like, it's only 5% of your job to come up with a plan and disseminate the plan. The other 95% of your job is to make sure it happens. Take ownership of the plan and get it implemented.


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[Assistant] Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what and they will tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.


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[Assistant] So, you wanna give them sort of the...


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[Assistant] Broad, hey, this is what I want you to get done, and let them figure out how to do it.


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[Assistant] You gotta use the little decentralized command as we like to say.


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[Assistant] Let's, let's do a little critique of Jaco. How do I do with that? Cause you're sort of the creative end here. Yeaah. And how am I? Good, good. Cause all I do, I say you know what Echo? Here's what I think. Yeaah. And then I just back away. Yeaah. And I let you run with your game.


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[Assistant] When you was, you got an expert, you know, when it's the same thing that was in the teams, same thing in the, in the business world. You, if you're the, if you're the big boss man.


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[Assistant] It is sad to remember that when anyone has fairly mastered the art of command, the necessity for that art usually expires either through the termination of the war or through the advanced age of the commander. And this is just a...


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[Assistant] This is just a damn shame. And it's the way it is. It's this way in the military.


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[Assistant] Example when I talked about him being ultra aggressive.


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[Assistant] And this is from a section, this is from a section which I didn't take, I don't think I took much out of it all. This one's called, this section was called Erring My Pain. He talks about these important decisions that he made, but they're, they're, they take, they're a little bit complex, some of them.


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[Assistant] But this one was fairly concise. About the 5th of September, it became apparent that we would run out of gasoline he's talking about for his tanks.


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[Assistant] We would run out of gasoline.


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[Assistant] This was actually done, and the bridgehead across the Mizzou River was secured as a result.


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[Assistant] There was considerable resistance on the part of the corps commanders to do what appeared to them an unnecessarily dangerous operation.


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[Assistant] Its success again proved that it was not dangerous. So, that's-


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[Assistant] That's pretty aggressive. Hey, you drive until the tanks run out of gas, when the tanks run out of gas, get out of the tanks and walk.


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[Assistant] That's, uh, pretty legit. We used to say, like, hey, in the SEAL teams, hey, we're gonna take the boats.


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[Assistant] When the boats run out of gas, we'll tow the boats. If the towing boats run out of gas, we'll get out and swim. We'll keep going until we get it done.


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[Assistant] Letter of instruction number two. So these are what, these are what this guy.


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[Assistant] So you wonder what patent thinks about, you have to wonder it's right here. So here's his, his letter of instruction number two.


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[Assistant] Discipline. There is only one sort of discipline. Perfect discipline.


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[Assistant] Men cannot have good battle discipline and poor administrative discipline.


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[Assistant] Discipline is based on pride in the profession of arms, on meticulous attention to detail, and on mutual respect and confidence.


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[Assistant] Discipline must be a habit so ingrained that it is stronger than the excitement of battle or the fear of death.


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[Assistant] And this is why it's every day and every decision that you make in keeping that discipline. And I actually have been hearing, you know, I hear that this


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[Assistant] The more I hold the line, the stronger the hold is, the better the grip is. And that's day by day you think? Day by day.


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[Assistant] Day by day. And normally like, it's all together. It's all grouped together. When you wake up early and you get your workout in.


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[Assistant] You just stay on track. You're like, you know what? I'm not going to eat that food that I don't need right now. You know, it's so much easier. But the day when you're like, I didn't worry. I woke up late and I didn't get my workout done. And you know what? There's a donut.


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[Assistant] You know, and it'd be, you break down. So you wanna, you wanna use the discipline, discipline enforces discipline.


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[Assistant] I actually, I actually disagree with you. I think that when you stay strong, you get stronger. And when you break, like how often does this happen? I'll just have one bite of that donut.


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[Assistant] For me every single time. And then you have that one bite of what happens.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but I think the better example is like when you say no to the one bite, you are, it's easier to say no to the whole donut. When you say yes to the one bite, it's easier to say yes to the whole no. So say no to donuts. Keep your discipline intact. Discipline back to the book.


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[Assistant] Discipline can only be obtained when officers are so imbued with the sense of their awful obligation to their men and to their country that they cannot tolerate negligence.


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[Assistant] Equal importance to correcting errors and praising excellence. You can see how important that is. And that's something that I've never been very good at. I was never a big praiser of excellence. And in reading this, I look back and say, I should have done that more.


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[Assistant] Officers must assert themselves by example and by voice. They must be preeminent in courage, deportment and dress.


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[Assistant] Is to produce alertness. A man who is so lethargic that he fails to salute will fail, will fall an easy victim to the enemy.


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[Assistant] So the discipline just keeps you on track.


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[Assistant] To give them that perfect discipline, that smartness of appearance, that alertness without which battles cannot be won. And this is something you know, the SEAL teams for sure are


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[Assistant] Very undisciplined when it comes to


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[Assistant] Uniforms when it comes to march. I mean, we don't march. I mean, we, we barely can get in whenever a bunch of Seals have to do something militaristic. It's usually a pretty, we have to dumb it down and make it as easy as possible because we just don't do it enough.


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[Assistant] You know, and, and that's just, that's, I'm just, I'm kind of stating that because we spend all of our time, you know, when we're, when we're practicing for war, we're not doing.


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[Assistant] Anything ceremonial. We practice for war. So this is kind of a funny little


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[Assistant] Dichotomy there is that seals generally


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[Assistant] So there's a little hypocritical, a little hypocritical, uh, hypocritical item about that.


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[Assistant] Number one, there is no approved solution to any tactical situation.


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[Assistant] There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.


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[Assistant] That's a pretty simple and straightforward principle. And according to General Patent, it does not change.


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[Assistant] Fear is induced by inflicting death and wounds on him. Death and wounds are produced by fire.


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[Assistant] Fire from the rear is more deadly and three times more effective than that from the front.


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[Assistant] But to get fire behind the enemy, you must hold him by frontal fire and move rapidly around his flank.


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[Assistant] Frontal attacks against prepared positions should be avoided if possible. I told you he was going to talk about flanks, he's talking about flanks.


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[Assistant] Catch the enemy by the nose with fire and kick him in the pants with fire in place through movement. That's flanks.


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[Assistant] You can never get too strong. Get every man and gun you can secure, provided it does not unduly delay your attack.


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[Assistant] I used to say, we'd try to figure out how many guys we'd bring on a mission.


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[Assistant] And I'd get some kind of, you know, restriction like, hey, we only want you to bring this many guys. And I'd say, well, this isn't soccer where we're only allowed to bring 11 per side. Why would I not bring 38 if I can bring 38? Why would I stop myself at 28-7?


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[Assistant] The larger force and the more violence you use in the attack, whether it be men, tanks or ammunition, the smaller will be your proportional losses. Violence of action is what we used to call that in the SEAL teams. Violence of action. Never yield ground.


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[Assistant] It is cheaper to hold what you have than to retake what you have lost.


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[Assistant] Never permit a unit to dig in until the final objective is reached.


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[Assistant] Then dig, wire, and mine. So you can't rest until you get to a good spot. This is a little statement I use a lot in Jiu Jitsu. Coaching. Cause people,


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[Assistant] They, they get in a position and they rest before it's time to rest. Right. You know, you gotta, you gotta get the guard back. You've got it. If someone, if someone passes your guard, you don't, you'll settle there on your back and let them settle in and start to smash you. As soon as someone passes your guard, you're recovering your work. You don't, you don't settle down until you're back to a good position. You can never do that.


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[Assistant] I was talking to Dean about that yesterday. If Dean is in a mindset where he's accepting


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[Assistant] You know, he said never yield ground, never permitted units dig in. He says never. And that's something that I don't say.


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[Assistant] Because it takes away the fact that of what he said earlier about there's no...


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[Assistant] Sharpen axes, pick axes and shovels now and keep them sharp.


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[Assistant] That's just an attitude, right? Look, the pickaxe that you're gonna use to dig in, make it sharp. In case you gotta hack somebody's brain out. Keep it sharp. Yeaah.