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[Assistant] What Omar Bradley points out here. That, that, hey, not only should you know what's happening, but you should


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[Assistant] You should show interest in what your support is doing. You know how I would translate that? I would call it building relationships.


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[Assistant] Again, I, I think a lot of times in this, in this speech he's, he's either brushing up or he's using his own verbiage to cover


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[Assistant] Continuing on, we tend to speak up only when things go wrong. This is such a well recognized fact that a complaint department is an essential part of many business firms. To my knowledge, no comparable facility exists anywhere to expedite the handling of praise for a job well done. It need not be extravagant.


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[Assistant] We all get enough criticism, and we learn to take it. Even Sir Winston Churchill, despite his matchless accomplishment, found occasion to say, I have benefited enormously from criticism, and at no point did I suffer from any perceptible lack thereof.


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[Assistant] But let us remember that praise also has a role to play. Napoleon was probably the finest exponent of this principle of recognition through his use of a quarter inch of ribbon to improve the morale and get results.


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[Assistant] Interesting that Bradley is very focused on praise.


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[Assistant] Very interesting that he's focused on praise. You can see what kind of a different guy he is than Pat.


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[Assistant] Much of the movie patent, the famous movie Oscar award winning movie patent.


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[Assistant] It was, a lot of it was based on, on that book that he wrote, A Soldier's Story.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's, it's a dichotomy that's gotta be balanced. You don't wanna go overboard. You don't wanna be complimenting every little thing. You don't wanna harp on every little thing either. I would say you are correct.


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[Assistant] It's better to back off a little bit and have your have your compliments or your criticisms be worthy of either one of those things.


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[Assistant] Smaller corrections more often are easier to give than...


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[Assistant] Big corrections, when people aren't used to kind of condition someone.


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[Assistant] Right, you can condition someone and it's good to do this. If, if, if I condition someone where they expect like, hey, some, some pretty straight forward feedback, that's a totally positive thing. If you're not conditioned to it,


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[Assistant] And all of a sudden I hammer you with something, it's a blow. Yeaah. You know, it hurts.


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[Assistant] And it might even make you defensive. But if I'm constantly, not constantly to the point of being annoying, but if I'm...


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[Assistant] On a regular basis, I'm telling you, oh Echo, you know, can you adjust this thing when you, when you put these things out? Or hey Echo, when you,


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[Assistant] When you get, when you get done with a project, the report needs to have more detail in it. Okay, well.


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[Assistant] The more I correct you, and again I gotta be careful, can't go overboard, but I gotta get you conditioned where you understand that I am going to give you some, some feedback.


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[Assistant] Don't wanna harp on you. It's really hard to tell, right? Cause a lot of times, people just sit there and take it, they go home and kick their dog because they're mad at their boss.


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[Assistant] Characteristic of a leader, he says, both mental and physical energy are essential to successful leadership. How many really good leaders have you known who are lazy, or weak, or who couldn't stand the strain?


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[Assistant] Sherman was a good example of a leader with outstanding mental and physical energy. I cite him with some trepidation because some of you may be from Georgia. However, during the advance from Chattanooga to Atlanta,


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[Assistant] Who marched, who did his march to the sea. 100 million dollars worth of damage in Georgia as he kinda destroyed things as he went. But, showing that he had this high level of energy.


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[Assistant] Coddling, there's another example of dichotomy, right? Don't treat them as if they're machines, but don't coddle them. But men are highly intelligent, complicated beings who will respond favorably to human understanding and consideration.


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[Assistant] By this means their leader will get maximum effort from each of them. He will also get loyalty. And in this connection it will, it is well to remember that loyalty goes down as well as up. The sincere leader will go to bat for his subordinates when such action is needed. Pretty straightforward dichotomy right there.


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[Assistant] Here I am reminded of the West Point cadet prayer and part of that prayer says, a leader must be able to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong. Armed with the courage of his convictions, he must fight to defend them. Then he has, then he has to come to a decision after thorough analysis.


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[Assistant] And when he is sure he is right, he must stick to it even to the point of stubbornness.


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[Assistant] Grant furnishes a good illustration of this trait. He never knew when he was supposed to be licked. A less stubborn man might have lost at Shiloh.


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[Assistant] By the way, Shiloh, 24,000 dead in two days. Total nightmare.


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[Assistant] At the end of the line, we're in full retreat. General Grant sat up, shook his head to clear the cobwebs and said, it can't be so, and went back to sleep. And it wasn't so. He had confidence in himself and in his subordinate leaders.


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[Assistant] There's a picture of Dave Burke and I. Good deal Dave. Yes. Where I think we're putting in Combat Outpost Falcon in downtown Ramadi.


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[Assistant] And the picture's probably, I don't even know when the picture's taken, but we're both asleep. They were both of us sitting up against the wall, we're both asleep, we're both asleep, awake for 24 hours at this point. He's the commander of S.A.L.T. 1-6. Yeah, S.A.L.T. 6. He's, he was a lightning 1-6.


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[Assistant] But we're in the combat outpost. The combat outpost was now secure. There's a bunch of guys from the 137.


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[Assistant] But if you, yea, actually Leif talks about this too. Leif, like, as soon as he would get into an Overwatch position, get it set up, and get security set, he'd be like, cool, I'm going to sleep.


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[Assistant] The planning cycle for, for like us officers going into the field, we would be planning basically the whole time until they're ready to go in. We would know that once we got in the field we could get some sleep. Yeaah. Because there's no...


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[Assistant] I'm just being straight up, like, there's, there's, I mean, I read some things that say, you know, if you've, if you've missed, if you haven't slept for 24 hours, it's the equivalent of three. You're, you're legally drunk. I don't think so.


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[Assistant] I'm sure there's times I'll tell you what's a good example the early musters that we did when we were doing the musters We were we didn't we didn't have a system down yet


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[Assistant] And so we didn't know all the things that we were gonna have to tackle. We were just, we just didn't prepare correctly.


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[Assistant] And so we, Leif and I would be up all night long. I think the worst muster as far as sleep goes was New York City. New York City, one of the nights, I think it was the first night


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[Assistant] We had to sign, whatever, 900 graduation certificates. It was 1.30 in the morning when we got started. PT, by the way, for us, starts at 3.


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[Assistant] So, we sat there, we signed him, we went to bed for an hour, we woke up, and next day we're on stage the entire day.


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[Assistant] No stopping, people riddling questions at me. Boom. What about this? What about that? I'm crap, crap, crap, crap, crap.


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[Assistant] Now, could I have done that if I was seven drinks drunk?


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[Assistant] Let me rephrase that. Let's not compare it to alcohol. Because we know functionally you could pull that off, but...


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[Assistant] To say that I was up there cognitively impaired. Right. I don't think it's, I don't think you could say that. Yeaah. I don't think it's true.


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[Assistant] When I'm doing something, it doesn't matter how tired I am, I know what's happening. I'm on it, right?


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[Assistant] Yes, you do need to be able to sleep as preferred, but what I'm saying is, it's not gonna


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[Assistant] You can step up and rise to the occasion. Look, I don't recommend it. For sure. You want to be able to sleep. Yes. But I'm not.


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[Assistant] Wait a second, you know, I don't know what the answer to that question is. Hold on, you know, that doesn't happen.


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[Assistant] It doesn't happen, your adrenaline flows, you're up there, you're, you're pulling the trigger on your gun, you're, whatever. Things are happening, you get in the game.


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[Assistant] There's more, there's usually more than one way to obtain results. And the most important thing about that little section right here, look, we know. That's the same thing Patton says. Any good plan, boldly execute is better than indecision.


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[Assistant] Or a good, what does Patton say, a good plan executed now is better than a great plan executed next week. Say, they're saying the same thing.


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[Assistant] There's usually more than one way to obtain results. I like that. I wanna focus on that because


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[Assistant] Again, I'm not arguing with you about six and one half dozen the other. I'm not arguing with you about should we bring six vehicles or five vehicles. I'm not arguing with you if we should, if we should invest


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[Assistant] And I go, hey Echo, it looks like your plan might not be working out that great, let's make an adjustment. And you go, cool, sounds good.


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[Assistant] And by the way, you're more open to hearing my suggestions if I was originally open to your suggestions in the first place. I built a relationship there.


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[Assistant] Continuing on, another quality of leadership that comes to mind is self-confidence. You must have confidence in yourself, your unit, and your subordinate.


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[Assistant] How can you be reading at a time like this? The sergeant replied, no, I'm not worried. General Bradley said everything would go alright. So why should I worry?


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[Assistant] I can't recall just what I had said, but it accomplished its purpose, at least where one man was concerned.


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[Assistant] I might relate another incident where there was a lack of confidence. I had to relieve a senior commander because I learned that his men had lost confidence in him.


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[Assistant] This meant, of course, that we would not expect maximum performance by that division. After being relieved, the officer came back through my headquarters and showed me a file of statements given to him by request, I am sure, by the burglmaster of all the towns his division had passed through.


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[Assistant] If he had confidence in himself, he would not have felt the need for all those letters. That's a cool little story. So he fires this division commander, and the division commander comes out and says,


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[Assistant] I haven't been doing a bad job. Here's the mayors of all the cities that we've been through. Here's, they told me I did a good job. Here, look at the letters.


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[Assistant] And he's like, and he actually goes on, after seeing the letters, I told the officer that if I ever had any doubts as to whether to relieve him, those doubts were now removed.


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[Assistant] His letters proved beyond question that he had lost confidence in himself. So it was no wonder that the man had lost com- confidence in him.


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[Assistant] So, definitely confidence is important. The interesting thing is, humility.


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[Assistant] Which is chapter two in extreme ownership. Check your ego.


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[Assistant] That's what he talks about. He never really explores what happens when you get overconfident, right? And we all know that you can get overconfident and you can lose. So that's why humility is important.


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[Assistant] He says here, next characteristic, a leader must possess imagination. Whether it be an administrative decision or one made in combat, the possible results of that decision must be plain to the one making it. What will the next step be and the one after that?


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[Assistant] While there are many other qualities which can contribute to effective leadership, I will mention just one more, but it is a very important one. Character. This word has many meanings. I am applying it in a broad sense to describe a person who has high ideals, who stands by them, and who can be absolutely trusted.


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[Assistant] Such a person will be respected by all those with whom he is associated. And such a person will readily be recognized by his associates for what he is.


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[Assistant] Circumstances mold our character. These circumstances affect different people in different ways. From exactly the same set of circumstances, one man may theoretically build a palace, while another may have difficulty building a lean too.


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[Assistant] I lean to, it's a little hut. A little leetle, the roof leans up against a stick. Put some, put some, put some leaves on top of it to keep you dry. That's called a lean to. So from the same experiences, one person builds a palace, the other person builds a lean to.


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[Assistant] That's a rough one to take. It's a rough one to take because you might look around and say, well, you know, I didn't have the right circumstances in my life to be successful.


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[Assistant] I promise you that there's someone with worse circumstances that's more successful than you. Promise you.


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[Assistant] It has been said that a man's character is the reality of himself. I don't think a man's strength of character ever changes. I remember a long time ago when somebody told me that a mountain might be reported to have moved.


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[Assistant] I could believe it or disbelieve it as I wished, but if anyone told me that a man had changed his character, I should not believe it.


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[Assistant] I dunno. Look, I think it's hard for people's characters to change.


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[Assistant] I don't think you can change someone's character very easily, actively, proactively, make their character change. But I think that through life and through experience, people's character does absolutely change. And you can meet someone now that you knew ten years ago.


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[Assistant] And you'd say, whoa, that person's a whole new character. And you would mean character in its classic sense.


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[Assistant] You know that slimy guy that you knew in high school that was trying to screw people over and whatever? He's saying like, that guy when you meet him 20 years later, guess what he's doing? Still a slimy guy. I disagree with that.


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[Assistant] I actually have known people whose character has changed. And for me, I mean there's a...


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[Assistant] We could do a whole show, I guess, about what is character, but like, for me, character is doing what you know you're supposed to do. Like, actually doing what you know you're supposed to do.


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[Assistant] That's how you end up with character, right? You say you're gonna do something, you do it. You know you're supposed to behave a certain way regardless of anyone's watching, regardless of the outcome. You know you're supposed to do the right thing, you do it. That's character.


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[Assistant] Look, there's some people you go, I remember that greasy dude, just being all trying to, you know, get, take care of himself. And you look at that person 10 years later, it's the same dude. But occasionally, you'll get someone that changes.


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[Assistant] I think it, yeaah, and I've seen it. Yeaah. I've seen it. Yes sir. I know people where I, uh, you know, used to look at them and go yeesh. And now I look at them totally solid.


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[Assistant] I mean, I don't know how much my character's changed, but it has changed.


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[Assistant] I'm a different guy than I was when I was 22.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's, it's, it's strange that he's so, I mean, saying it's, he'd more believe that a mountain moved than someone's character moved. That's a really,


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[Assistant] And sometimes it's, they go, or sometimes they're just a scumbag from day one. And you're like, yeah, no, that's, didn't expect much, much less than that.


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[Assistant] And then there's some people that progress. And there's some people that regress.


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[Assistant] Right, some people get treated bad, they go through, and their character goes down.


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[Assistant] So, I think we're in mutual disagreement with General Omar Bradley on this point. I think people's character can absolutely improve, and I think, I think it can get worse as well. You know, somebody gets, what's that? BURNED.


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[Assistant] Right, you get burned by someone, you get burned by a girl, you get burned by one of your friends. That'll change your character.


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[Assistant] Check. All, he's wrapped that to the last characteristic he talks about. All leaders must possess these qualities which I have been discussing. And the great leaders are those who possess one or more of them to an outstanding degree. Some leaders just miss being great because they are weak in one or more of these areas.


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[Assistant] There's still another ingredient in this formula for a great leader that I have left out, and that is luck! All caps.


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[Assistant] He must have opportunity. Then of course when opportunity knocks, he must be able to rise and open the door.


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[Assistant] Yes, absolutely. I've been extremely lucky. I've seen people be extremely lucky. I've seen people been unlucky. So luck absolutely plays a role. I will say you make your own luck to an extent.


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[Assistant] It's a double edged sword, right? It's a double edged sword because...


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[Assistant] You either, oh, that guy got lucky. Right? You didn't see how hard that guy worked.


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[Assistant] You didn't see what that person did to end up in that unlucky spot.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. I mean I talk about, in leadership strategy and tactics, I talk about the luck that I had in the SEAL tapes. All kinds of luck.


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[Assistant] Just the people I worked with, the deployments that I did, the situations that I was in, there was a lot of luck there. Some of that luck I manufactured.


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[Assistant] It was just straight up all caps luck.


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[Assistant] Is a factor, but it is a smaller factor than most people give it credit for. Though like you said, there are times where people just get low.


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[Assistant] Luck is most likely a minor impact, but it is an impact and there are times when it's a significant impact.


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[Assistant] When someone's trying to make excuses for themselves on why this person


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[Assistant] Got this promotion and I didn't know they were lucky. Is there no luck involved?


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[Assistant] They maintain that you either have leadership or you don't, that leaders are born not made. I suppose some are born with a certain amount of leadership. Frequently we see children who are, who seem inclined to take charge and direct their playmates.


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[Assistant] The other youngsters follow these directions without protest, but I am convinced nevertheless that leadership can be developed and improved by study and training. 100%.


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[Assistant] There is no better way to develop leadership than to give the youngster or other individual a job involving responsibility and let him try to work it out. Try to avoid telling him how to do it. You talk about youngsters? As you've heard, as I talk about leadership strategy and tactics,


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[Assistant] Combat orders, they're actually talking about something very specific. It is a way of delivering orders using commander's intent, as opposed to telling you, here's the mission, here's the people, here's the weapons, here's everything, here's exactly how I want you to do it. Instead, you just give them the mission, you let them figure it out.


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[Assistant] Well tell the subordinate, we tell the subordinate commander what we want him to do and leave him to the details.


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[Assistant] I think this system is largely responsible for the many fine leaders in our services today. We are constantly training and developing younger officers and teaching them how to accept responsibility.


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[Assistant] I like, I especially like general Buckner's theory that judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment.


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[Assistant] However, at the moment, these thoughts take on added significance for me. You see, my first great grandson was born a year ago. We call him Fat Henry. What happens to his life and to the lives of his contemporaries may well be in your hands. Thank you. So.


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[Assistant] The leaders right now that are listening to this. The leaders that are learning, the leaders that are reading.


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[Assistant] They will end up running the world. And they will end up running it well and making it better or running it.


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[Assistant] So, interesting, interesting. I'm sure we'll get to his book at some point. Uhm, but, so much about leadership. So many things, you know, that we hit, we cover, we see it from a different angle.


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[Assistant] To train leaders is to make sure that we are being good leaders ourselves. Setting a good example. The best example that we can.


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[Assistant] Staying on the path, you might say. So, since we are looking to stay on the path,


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[Assistant] You definitely wanna be as strong as you can. Different for everybody. Yes.


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[Assistant] Realistically. Be the best shape that you can be in. That's good advice. Can't really be denied.


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[Assistant] Jeans. You probably need jeans. Oh, does everyone in the world, the entire world wear jeans? Yes. Every single person in the entire world needs jeans, has jeans.


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[Assistant] Why not get jeans that are made in America? Why not get the best and most comfortable jeans ever made? That's my question.


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[Assistant] Omar Bradley said that some people don't have it. Yeaah. Well we could say that's certain.


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[Assistant] Items in the world also have it. I would say that Origin Boots have


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[Assistant] Joint warfare, krill oil, super krill oil, discipline and discipline go. We got the ready to drink, you were drinking lemon lime today.


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[Assistant] And let's say you, you are doing any kind of activity, you need protein. Yes. Might as well get protein that is clean and that just straight up tastes like dessert.


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[Assistant] Dave Burke. Good deal Dave. Yeaah. Worried that maybe it was a weakness.


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[Assistant] This ties back into the whole thing where you used to be like, hey Jocko, if you're so into the way your supplements taste, maybe that's a weakness.


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[Assistant] But you want to taste something delicious, so you mix one up. It's 11 o'clock at night. Let's face it.


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[Assistant] That's a questionable activity. But at the same time, you're literally providing your body with the fuel that it needs to be strong.


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[Assistant] Just to get a double dose of discipline you'll get strong and you'll get mentally tougher because you'll be drinking something that tastes like kerosene.


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[Assistant] Look, the thing that people really like about Jock-A-White-T is that it allows you to deadlift 8,000 pounds. And by the way, that's double blind placebo tested with a 94 person control group.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so get that. And all these supplement items can be found at The Vitamin Shop.


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[Assistant] Order it by mail, you can go and get it from the vitamin shop. If you need it, if you have an emergency situation.


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[Assistant] If you want a trucker's hat. Yea. Or a regular hat. Or a beanie for your head.


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[Assistant] And if you are seen in the wild by me representing


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[Assistant] What is the bona fides? Do you know what the technical bona fides was in the military? It's like the cheesy thing where someone says, it's a nice night for a walk. And the other person says, but it's cold in Nebraska. So it's a little...


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[Assistant] It's cool. Yeah. Speaking of, you know, this podcast, we also have other podcasts.


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[Assistant] One of them were having some technical difficulties right now. We had a podcast that was previously called The Thread.


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[Assistant] There's already an existing podcast called The Thread, which I didn't know about because I just didn't really pay attention to it. And so we're changing the name of ours.


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[Assistant] I just don't know what it's going to be called yet. We'll put it up there shortly. So if you're missing the thread, that's where it's at. It's gone for now. It'll be back. We'll put up all the episodes. We'll change whatever we got to change so that it's differentiated from that. My, my boss. Oops. Yeah. The weird thing is there's all kinds of podcasts called the thread or some variant of that, but ours.


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[Assistant] I think I would say ours was more popular, so they didn't like that. And I don't want people to be confused.


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[Assistant] We also have the grounded podcast, the warrior kid podcast.


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[Assistant] And speaking of Warrior Kids, we got Warrior Kids soap from IrishOakRanch.com. Is that stuff, is killer soap alive on the Jocko store yet?


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[Assistant] I'll put that. Alright, soooo, if not go to irishokesramps.com and get some soap, some killer soap so that you and your family can stay


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[Assistant] Did you feel kinda good about that? Were you kinda like, you're the man?


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[Assistant] Also Psychological Warfare, iTunes, Google Play, mp3 platforms, get yourself some psychological.


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[Assistant] Hang it in your gym. Hang it in your room. Keep you on the path.


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[Assistant] Some books. We got a book called The Code, The Evaluation of the Protocols.


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[Assistant] We got leadership strategy and tactics. I referenced that a bunch today. We got the way the warrior kids series. There's three of them.


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[Assistant] The way the warrior kid marks mission to where there's a will. We got Mikey and the Dragons. Best children's book ever. For the youngins. Factually.


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[Assistant] Which I wrote with my brother Leif Babin. And we have Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. So check those books out. We have Echelon Front.


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[Assistant] But yes, that's what we're doing. We're there. We are, we have shifted to this online platform for a lot of our consulting right now due to COVID-19. It turns out that this platform is just awesome. We're utilizing it.


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[Assistant] We are ramping it up, so if you want to check that out, if you want to talk to me.


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[Assistant] Go to efonline.com, get enrolled in that. We also have the muster coming up, it's our leadership conference.


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[Assistant] The first one of the year was cancelled due to COVID-19.


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[Assistant] That was in Orlando. That one's cancelled right now. We are shifting to Phoenix September 16th and 17th and then Dallas December 3rd and 4th. Go to ExtremeOwnership.com.


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[Assistant] We moved a bunch of people from Orlando to Phoenix and Dallas. Those are going to sell out even quicker than normal. Everything we've ever done sold out. So get there early if you want to go get registered. If you want to get there. And of course we have EF Overwatch.


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[Assistant] Executive leadership. If you need someone in an executive position at your team, go to EF Overwatch. We have military members that have leadership experience to plug in senior positions to plug into your organization. If you need frontline leaders or frontline troops, go to eflegion.com.


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[Assistant] And if you're a vet, go to EFlegion.com and sign yourself up so we can get you employed out there in the world at companies where they cherish the military experience that you have. Also, AmericasMightyWarriors.org. Mark Lee's mom.


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[Assistant] Helping service members around the world, helping their families, and helping gold star families. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to americasmightywarriors.org. And if you want to hear more of my


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[Assistant] tedious explanations, or you want to hear more of Echo's disjointed prattle, then you can find us both on the interwebs.


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[Assistant] Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Echo is at Echo Charles.


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[Assistant] And I am at Jocko Willink. And thanks to all the service members out there who are protecting us from evil. And the same to police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service.


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[Assistant] Thank you for protecting us here at home and on top of them, thanks to the doctors, nurses, and medical personnel who are risking their health to protect ours. And to everyone else out there, remember what General Omar Bradley


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[Assistant] Commander of the most American troops ever. Remember what he taught us. He taught us a lot. And let's think about this. He taught us that there are many solutions to a problem.


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[Assistant] Until next time, this is Echo and Jaco.


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[Assistant] With Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo. Good evening. And also joining us tonight, once again.


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[Assistant] Dave Burke. Good evening Dave. Good evening. So, we only got through the first two sections of the Marine Corps Doctrinal Learning Publication.


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[Assistant] Last time with a doctrinal publication of learning. Last time. So, we're gonna finish it up today. And...


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[Assistant] I must say that since we covered that, since I read this for the first time, I've been trying to pay attention to things from a learning perspective. Learning things. And I've actually talked to both of you.


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[Assistant] And we mentioned it on the last podcast, and we kind of breezed through it. Like, I think I just said, oh yea, I've been talking to you guys about screeching. We just kind of breezed through it. Didn't really talk about what that actually means. So I wanted to, I wanted to kind of,


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[Assistant] Do a little discussion or dive into what does that mean? What does it mean to squeeze your brain? Cause it's important. It is so important to put pressure.


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[Assistant] The pressure. Put the pressure on your brain. On your thoughts. On how you're thinking. Because that pressure creates heat.


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[Assistant] And it, it ties back into something from the Discipline of Course Freedom Field Manual, which is question everything. Right? Question everything.


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[Assistant] That's, I would say my original form of applying pressure to my mind was sitting there saying,


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[Assistant] We're constantly saying, well just because we do it that way, is that tradition wrong? Is that standard wrong?


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[Assistant] And in order to answer those questions, in order to answer those questions, it puts pressure on your brain. It puts pressure on your mind.


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[Assistant] Because often times the ideas that you're questioning, the ideas that you're questioning, the standards that you're questioning, the tradition that you're questioning are things that have been around for a while. They've survived some level of pressure. So to think that you're going to come up with some new way is, it's a little bit ridiculous, but at the same time, you have to do it. You have to do it to free your mind.


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[Assistant] Which, are you, are you supposed to post that on a pretty regular, but for your


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[Assistant] And I'm not talking about the, the kind of.


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[Assistant] This is just kinda happening. I think, I think I sensed a light switch flip or whatever you want to call it. EF online.


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[Assistant] You were coming up with sort of the discussion point for the day.


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[Assistant] And so EF Online is, uh, we got a bunch of people coming on, they're interacting with us, it's a Zoom meeting, which I think the whole world is now familiar with Zoom meetings, so we've expanded our online presence and we're really putting a lot of time and effort behind EF Online.


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[Assistant] And so you were, and so we've been running these three times a week online. Community. Brigade of people. And so you were, you were.


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[Assistant] You were kinda leading the discussion on this particular one, and I think the question that spurned you to squeeze your brain a little bit was, how do you adapt to a changing world? And you went through this story.


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[Assistant] About when you were in the Marine Corps and when you were a Top Gun instructor and what the Marine Corps was doing and what Top Gun was doing was preparing, being prepared to fight the MiG-29. The MiG-29 Fulcrum. Which is an aircraft that is


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[Assistant] Correct me if I'm wrong, the fulcrum is not as good as our aircraft. Not as good as an F-18? Yea, that's right. F-14?


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[Assistant] Probably better than the F-14. So better than the F-14 but not as good as an F-18. Yep. And that's what you,


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[Assistant] When you went to Top Gun as a student, that's what they were telling you. Okay, this is, this is what you need to be prepared to fight. The MiG-29. That's right.


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[Assistant] An aircraft that's not quite as good as yours. Not quite as good as your F-18. That's what they were telling you.


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[Assistant] And when you come back now to be the instructor, the senior instructor, eventually, the Russians had a new aircraft.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's right. That was the, the SU-27 Flanker, which actually...


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[Assistant] A Cobra that's getting ready to strike. It's just an awesome looking aircraft. And it was, now this aircraft is better than an F-18. Were you in for the F-14s at all?


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[Assistant] Correct me if I'm wrong. In my mind, the F, the, the Tomcat has always been the muscle car of the fighter jets. Is that correct?


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[Assistant] So you're used to the F-18, now the, the SU-27 is now a real thing. Yeaah. And you come back as an instructor and...


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[Assistant] And you, I guess, looked at this and said,


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[Assistant] So you saw this new world, basically, and you


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[Assistant] Adapted to the new threat, you adapted to this new reality, and that was the lesson that you were trying to share on EF Online, which was, hey, when you get a new reality, which by the way, this is all in reference to COVID-19, what's the new reality, and we've got every different spectrum of business on there, so it means different things to different people.


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[Assistant] And the bottom line is the lesson was you get ahead of the new reality. You don't wait for it, you get ahead of it.


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[Assistant] And when we got off the call or whatever and I talked to you about it and I said uhm, something like hey that was a solid lesson like did you squeeze your brain to get that out?


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[Assistant] Recognize it from that other perspective until you scream, you squeeze your brain and put pressure on your brain.


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[Assistant] Other things that don't always, don't always appear to be related like COVID-19 and MIG-29s, but they are related.


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[Assistant] So every time you put pressure on your mind, you force yourself to think better and get better. And this happened to me the other day. Again.


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[Assistant] It was another EF Online scenario. And what's good about EF Online is look when people


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[Assistant] Send me a question over social media, it's cool, and we try and answer the question, but you can't get any context around it. On EF Online, you're getting the context, the person's there. In this case, in particular case, it was a guy named Ben, and he was talking about being on the path.


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[Assistant] And at the time, you know, it was something along these lines. He's been furloughed. He's not in charge of anyone right now. He's stuck at home. It'd be a good time to get in shape, but he's having trouble doing it, right? So I went down the path of


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[Assistant] Again, because of the way this story was unfolding from him, he's normally at work, he's normally in charge of people, so we're talking about it from a leadership perspective, and I said something like, hey, you are not in charge of anyone else right now, but you're your own CEO.


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[Assistant] Which is something we hear all the time, right? You're your own CEO. You're your own supreme commander. You're your own general. And he got it and he said thanks and that was cool.


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[Assistant] And then I kept thinking about it because there was some like thing in my brain where it makes sense.


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[Assistant] Is that, yes, you're your own general, you're your own commander on the battlefield, but you are also the soldiers.


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[Assistant] You are, and we actually know factually that troops don't just blindly follow orders. That doesn't happen. We, hey look, we would like that to be happening, right? We, well, let me rephrase that.


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[Assistant] That's the scenario that people think would be totally ideal, that I bark orders and everyone listens to me. But we know, we know that that doesn't work. It doesn't work in the military, it doesn't work in business, it doesn't work with your kids. It doesn't work.


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[Assistant] Then they're not gonna do what they're supposed to do, right? They're not gonna do what they're supposed to do. If you don't build that relationship, if you don't have that unifying mission, it's not gonna work. So, if you're too close


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[Assistant] At the same time, if you just bark orders at your troops.


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[Assistant] And they don't know why they're doing what they're doing, then they're not going to commit to doing it in any meaningful way. And just like troops, you know, if Dave, if you're a grunt and I bark orders at you, you go, yes sir, you go do it.


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[Assistant] I do that to you the next day, you go do it. I do that to you the next day, all of a sudden you're not, you're lagging. I do that to you for a month, you're not invested anymore.


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[Assistant] That's cool, it might work for a day, it might work for two days, it might work for three days, and sometimes I absolutely use that.


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[Assistant] Use that type of leadership with myself. Where I'm, you know, hey, look, there's no time to debate right now. You need to get up and go do your workout.


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[Assistant] But if you try and make that the way that, the only way that you're leading yourself functionally over time, it's gonna fall short. If you push your troops too hard, they're gonna break.


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[Assistant] Right, you can actually push yourself so hard that you, you, you break. You can overtrain.


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[Assistant] If you're too easy on your troops, you can get soft. Same thing with what, the way you, happens with yourself.


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[Assistant] So, once my troops are used to, hey, this is how I do it, this is why I do it, once they're used to that, they respond better.


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[Assistant] Just like when you follow a routine every day, and you know what you're supposed to do, and your troop, your mental soldiers know what they're supposed to do, they start to respond better. You know, when you realize when your mental troops know that, hey, dog was gonna work out.


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[Assistant] It's gonna happen, and we could either stand around and procrastinate, or we could just suck it up and go get it done. They go, you know what, hey, this is going that way. So the better you train,


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[Assistant] With you as the leader and you as the troops. And the connection between where you are and where it is you wanna go. Because the general might wanna secure a beachhead


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[Assistant] Without the troops taking action and actually making it happen. So the ideas and plans of the generals have to be executed by the chain of command.


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[Assistant] And they, they might do it out of fear for a minute, but they're not gonna do it for a long period of time. They will do it out of honor. They will do it out of pride. They will do it if they understand the long term goal.


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[Assistant] If the goal of the general is aligned with the goals of the troops. If they're not aligned, we're not gonna get what we want.


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[Assistant] The chain of command inside your own head, or...


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[Assistant] And we can't learn if we don't put pressure on our minds to make them figure things out.


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[Assistant] That's uh, that's sensible. Yes sir. You get one credit for today. I think I understand now. We're in the black already.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well you talked to me about that. I forget, you were talking about making videos, which is your creative pursuit on the earth. Sure, wonderful. And you were telling me that sometimes, eh, you know, this idea is a little bit of an idea, whatever, and then it fades and you forget about it or you don't execute on it.


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[Assistant] And I was telling you that in fact the little ideas just aren't gonna grow to be outstanding without some pressure on them. Without putting a little squeeze on them. You're not gonna get those diamonds out.


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[Assistant] I'm reviewing my entire life right now in my head. All of it. As fast as I can. And I'm gonna say that I think if I didn't put pressure on my head,


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[Assistant] Right? So we're gonna have to do it. But this perspective of learning, and one of the things that I realized I never thought about before, when they talk about learning,


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[Assistant] As we covered on the last podcast, they're talking about if I see the enemy do something that was effective, I learned.


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[Assistant] So this is a new development. But now I just took that idea and started thinking about how


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[Assistant] There's a lot of things I've learned along the way.


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[Assistant] And again, I'm not talking about being a contrarian, cause contrarians...


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[Assistant] I don't think I'm a contrarian. I think I will, if there's an idea that is contrary to what someone is saying and I would like to explore whether it's right or not, I will bring it up all day long. But I won't bring up an idea just to kinda


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[Assistant] I work for one in particular, and it was just super annoying. I, you know, and I just have to be like, mhm. Especially because he was a senior guy, and so his little contrarian statements would


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[Assistant] Send people in directions that I wished we were not going because I knew that they were not going to prove they weren't going to provide any fruit on the other side. Definitely no diamonds were going on.


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[Assistant] Like a subconscious kind of note to myself or, or I'm putting myself on subconscious notice because like you and I are sitting here just throwing around that we're just


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[Assistant] Producing an idea which may or may not have value, but the thing is it doesn't exist unless you put some pressure on your, on your mind.


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[Assistant] And it's so, just like working out, right? You're not gonna get stronger if you don't put some pressure on you. You're, you're not gonna get better at Jiu-Jitsu unless you get some pressure put on you. Doesn't happen. So you have to put pressure on your mind. The thing is, you can so easily go through life right now.


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[Assistant] Without putting any pressure on your mind at all. You can go through life right now and I guess when I'm talking about my, you can be a 36 year old, a 42 year old, a 19 year old and put no pressure on your brain and just


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[Assistant] Resort to the modules of knowledge that you have and if they don't fit that well, it's cool. Just...


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[Assistant] Just, you know, put some spackle over it and call it good.


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[Assistant] So you've been getting kind of broad questions from clients about


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[Assistant] How do we adapt to what's happening and you started squeezing your brain to figure out a way to explain that that would be very clear and would make people connect the process of doing it to a story which makes it easier to understand.


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[Assistant] Reverse, kind of overlaying new information.


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[Assistant] We covered it up when Mike Cerelli was on the podcast. The first thing I did when Mike Cerelli checked into Tasking Your Bruiseries, checking in late, is I, I gave him a counseling, a written counseling.


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[Assistant] And I, I was explaining why I did it. And I actually, like back then, whatever it was, 15 years ago or something like that, 15 years ago when I met him,


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[Assistant] If you would have said, why did you do that? You know what I said, because he's checking and he needs to be squared away or something like that. I would have given this. But if you would have actually squeezed my brain at the time and said, wait a second, no, Jocko, you're, you're in a leadership position.


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[Assistant] You take action because, for a reason. Tell me why you actually, why did you actually decide of everyone that's in Task Unit Brugger, you got this new guy coming in,


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[Assistant] Why is it him that you've decided at this point in time that you want to give him a written counseling the minute he checks in?


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[Assistant] And I, I was thinking about it. And I was squeezing my brain and I realized a couple things. You know, number one, he was coming from a task unit that just self-destructed and I didn't want any of that drama. Number two, I wanted him to know that I was serious about what we do.


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[Assistant] And the last one, the one that I had to squeeze my brain to get to.


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[Assistant] I knew he was a prior Marine, I knew he was a prior Recon, I knew he was a prior Sniper. And I, but I didn't know him.


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[Assistant] And so, by me taking this young officer, date, the minute I meet him and say yeaah, come talk to me, and I hand him a counseling sheet.


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[Assistant] And what it said was something along the lines of, hey, there's no drama in tasking a bruiser, so don't bring any drama in tasking a bruiser.


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[Assistant] That moment, where I saw his reaction, is what this whole thing was really about. It was really just a test to see, who am I getting? Does this guy have a big ego? Does this guy have a bad attitude? Does this guy think he's smarter than everybody else? Is he, when I say, hey, I want you to sign this counseling, should it be to say,


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[Assistant] This is ridiculous. Why should I be at war? Is he gonna roll his eyes at me or is he gonna, you know, huff and puff or whatever? Is his ego gonna come out?


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[Assistant] And that all came from, that all came from the fact that I was talking to this other woman on EF Online and talking about the Willy Wonka freaking example of how you test somebody. The end of, have you ever seen the movie Willy Wonka, Echo Charles? The original?


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[Assistant] The end of the original Willy Wonka, he goes off berserk and tries to get the person to, uh, change his mind. Or to reveal himself.


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[Assistant] As either being a thief and untrustworthy or being trustworthy. So I had explained that to, and so now I could see clearly why I'm doing this. So, even though you might say, I forget about being in the Marine Corps and I get what you're saying, like it's a, it's a,


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[Assistant] Yeah, I get what you're saying, but, but the reality is you take what, you take this new thing, this new thing that came out of your brain and you overlay it on the past and you go, oh, this makes total sense now. Oh, I totally see why I would do that. And so it's a little reverse engineering.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and it's crazy that when you see the patterns, the pattern recognition over time, you go, yeah, that's what I was doing there. Yep, that's it. And for me that a lot of that stemmed from jujitsu because that's when I started connecting the dots of, oh, you don't want to attack an area that's reinforced.


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[Assistant] In, on the battlefield, in jujitsu or as a leader. You don't want to attack an air. Okay, I got that. Oh, you need to maneuver. You need to, you need to be able to move. Right? Think about that. Just think about that concept in jujitsu. When you get


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[Assistant] When you get immobilized, you are on the way to defeat. The minute that you can no longer move, you are on your way to defeat. Well, on the battlefield, if you can't maneuver anymore, if you dig in,


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[Assistant] And you can't move, you're on your way to defeat. And mentally, if you


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[Assistant] You are on your way to defeat. So when you start taking these and seeing them in other areas


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[Assistant] It opens your mind up, it frees your mind in so many different ways, and that is learning. That's what it is. Alright, uhm.


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[Assistant] Little preamble. So, chapter three, the learning environment. It is necessary for us to learn from others mistakes. You will not live long enough to make them all yourself. That's uh, Admiral Rick over.


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[Assistant] Next one. Our knowledge of circumstances has increased, but our uncertainty, instead of having diminished, has only increased.


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[Assistant] The reason of this is that we do not gain all our experience at once, but by degrees. So our determinations continue to be assailed incessantly by fresh experience. And the mind


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[Assistant] If we may use the expression, must always be under arms.


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[Assistant] So new things are gonna come about and you gotta be, he's using, he's using kind of a different metaphor. I'm saying keep your mind open. He's like, you gotta be ready. Ready to adapt.


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[Assistant] Next here. Victory does not necessarily go to those who have the largest or most modern forces, but to those who are able to recognize the need to adapt, generate intelligent decisions, and execute them more quickly than their enemy.


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[Assistant] Victory does not go to the person who is the biggest and strongest. Echo.


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[Assistant] It goes to the person who can adapt, who can make intelligent decisions and execute them quickly.


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[Assistant] Skipping ahead, in the progress, in the progression of learning, training should provide Marines with an opposing will to practice against.


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[Assistant] Through rep- THROUGH repetitions in a training environment, Marines learn to outthink adversaries and overcome friction.


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[Assistant] Prior to encountering these factors during real world operations. Therefore, Marines must integrate lessons learned from current and previous conflicts to adapt their learning environments, methods, assessments, and feedback to reflect evolving threats.


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[Assistant] Be able to detach. You want to be able to handle pressure. How do I actually do that? It's like, oh, you gotta put yourself in those environments.


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[Assistant] You've got to go against an opposing will in order to practice.


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[Assistant] The best possible opponent you can. Look, can you overdo that? Yes you can if all you do is just get smoked and I bet you guys at Top Gun as instructors had to back off.


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[Assistant] Yeah, the more effective your opponent is, the more pressure he puts on your brain. That's right. And the better results you're gonna get. The more violence you're gonna shake out of your hair. Yes, sir.


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[Assistant] Learning environments. There's not a single correct design for creating the ideal learning environment because each learning objective, marine, team, and condition will differ. Therefore, marines modify learning environment to most effectively meet the learner's needs and reflect the conditions that they expect to encounter.


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[Assistant] Effective learning requires environments that foster flexibility of thought, reasoning, and the creation of the potential solutions to the problems and encourages Marines to explore alternative courses of action. I had to highlight that part.


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[Assistant] Because effective learning requires environments that foster flexibility of thought, reasoning, and the creation of potential solutions.


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[Assistant] So if, if at Top Gun what you did was said, okay Bill, uh, on this run, you're gonna go up, you're gonna do this maneuver, this maneuver, this maneuver, this maneuver, this maneuver, this maneuver, and you're gonna do them in this required timeline. Like you could create some false pressure with the required timeline, they would get good at doing this maneuver, this maneuver, this maneuver,


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[Assistant] And then as soon as a real thing happened and they got a wrench thrown in to order, you came at them and you just annihilate them. Same thing with jiu-jitsu.


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[Assistant] Or the old school, the katas. Yes. Right? The katas. In whatever traditional martial arts, here's the move. You know, there's a downward thrusting blow from your opponent. You do the X block and then whatever you do these coordinated moves.


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[Assistant] Which is what made those type of martial arts when UFC started or when they were doing NHB.


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[Assistant] The traditional martial arts that had been not learning in this way, not learning for flexibility of thought and reasoning and creation of potential. They didn't train for that. They trained for a downward thrusting whatever.


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[Assistant] And when they got an uppercut or a leg kick that they didn't know how to work against, they were dead in the water.


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[Assistant] Same thing with when I was training, well, the seals. That's how we train the seals. We're not training, hey, here's the, here's the, um,


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[Assistant] Here's the next maneuver that you're gonna do is called a, uh, a center peel.


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[Assistant] Good, now walk down the ravine and when the whistle blows, you guys do a center peel. Actually, that's how we start off, right? That's the beginning. And I'm sure there's maneuvers you guys taught at Total Con. Hey, here's the maneuver, here's what you do. Yes. But eventually, you gotta figure out what maneuver you're gonna do, when you're gonna do it, how long you're gonna do it for, what's your next maneuver gonna be.


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[Assistant] Whether exercising marine's critical thinking and problem solving skills or understanding circumstances where immediate obedience to orders or application of specific basic skills such as good marksmanship are required. So there's times where you are gonna just straight up say Roger that. Got it.


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[Assistant] Additionally, effective learning environments provide opportunities for Marines to execute the required repetitions under different conditions to achieve competency.


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[Assistant] Gladwell. Yes. Yes. So one of the things, one of the experiments that they go through in that book is they're training two groups of kids to throw a ball into a basket or something like that. Not a basketball but just a ball into a basket.


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[Assistant] And there's one group of kids that do it at varying distances. Five feet, seven feet, four feet, three feet, eight feet.


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[Assistant] The other kids are just doing it at six feet every single time.


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[Assistant] Guess who does better? Echo Charles. The six feet people. Nope. Really? Yep. It's the people that had the variety, the flexibility they trained and they were able to outperform.


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[Assistant] So that's counterintuitive, right? We think, hey, just do the same thing. That's why, that's why I like the multi-sport athlete.


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[Assistant] Has this extra capability and they tend to do well. I just watched a documentary about different really successful athletes.


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[Assistant] The, the, often times, not all the time, often times, the player that does the best is not the best.


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[Assistant] Baseball player is not the player that just played baseball. It's the player, the player that played football, basketball, and baseball. And then when he was 14, he focused on baseball. But he had all this different athletic training. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Fast forward, although Marines strive for learning efficiencies, improving the learning environment does not necessarily mean making it more efficient.


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[Assistant] For example, although rote memorization or reciting facts can be very efficient and useful for developing basic knowledge such as memorizing standing orders, they are not effective methods for all learning. Effective learning often requires approaching material from different perspectives, applying information in context, and explaining how and why actions occurred in addition to what occurred.


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[Assistant] How many times echo Charles, have you heard me say you learn an arm lock from a different professor?


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[Assistant] Those different perspectives is gonna make you better. Then if you, when you learn the armlock from the mount, but then you also learn it from the guard,


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[Assistant] Both the armlock from the guard and the armlock from the mount. Both to get better. Yes.


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[Assistant] So learning from different perspectives, important tool, important tool you gotta have. Fast forward.


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[Assistant] Setting the conditions for success. Recognizing these surfaces and gaps requires awareness, honesty and judgment because they are often unique to the individual or the specific unit. A surface in one learner or unit may be a gap in another.


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[Assistant] It is incumbent upon leaders, instructors, learners and their peers to actively seek out these gaps through continuous and aggressive reconnaissance.


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[Assistant] Learners should not hide gaps in their knowledge. Instead, they should exercise intellectual humility to identify and fill these gaps in order to improve.


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[Assistant] If you think if you're not going to be humble and you're not going to admit your mistakes, you're going to look stronger to your troops, you're completely and utterly wrong.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and also you can only hide your gaps for so long. I mean people recognize it when you don't have that part of your game. It's not like people don't know it man.


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[Assistant] Marines mitigate weaknesses by leveraging their strengths to form new understanding and focus on learning to eliminate gaps. This can only occur when learners first acknowledge their weaknesses and resolve to leverage their strengths to build meaningful connections.


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[Assistant] Should we make a poster that says that? You know what I mean? Like, just so important and so seemingly obvious. And once again, you wonder why someone would have to take something so seemingly obvious and put it into a book. It's because even though it's seemingly obvious, it's hard for people to deal.


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[Assistant] Next section is called the Expeditionary Nature of Learning.


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[Assistant] Marines recognize that to be effective war fighters, they must be warrior scholars. They must seize initiative to study the profession of arms whenever and wherever learning opportunities arise. And once again, I like, I like how the


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[Assistant] If you're a marine, then you obviously recognize that you need to be a warrior scholar. That's just how it is.


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[Assistant] And it's talking about force on force exercises to simulate war's complexity. Force on force exercises are purpose driven learning environments that approximate the complexity of war.


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[Assistant] When developing such exercises, Marines focus on designs that enhance problem solving and promote decision forcing events. This enables Marines to practice and better understand


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[Assistant] Even if that enemy is simulated by other marines, this practice ensures that challenging learning environments provide a place to practice, develop experience, allow errors, adapt and learn how to fight and win.


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[Assistant] That is the very premise of Top Gun. That is the very premise of the advanced seal training where you are in fact fighting against other seals all the time.


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[Assistant] What might be hard for people to grasp and you might even be able to have a more linear exposure to this.


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[Assistant] Decision making events. I could watch a young seal get better.


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[Assistant] At being in chaotic situations, taking a step back, detaching, looking around, figuring out what the possibilities are, choosing a course of action, executing it. I could watch someone get better at that. It's hard to


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[Assistant] You'd see a young seal day one going through land warfare training.


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[Assistant] And, or Dave, his first, we'll call it field training exercise, or his first immediate action drill in an uncontrolled environment where he doesn't know what the call that he's gonna, gonna make is. Patrolling out there, boom, the targets pop up, the, the simulators start going off. His people react.


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[Assistant] And the first time it happens to him, he's totally overwhelmed, doesn't know what decision to make, he's shooting his gun, he's looking around but not with any purpose, no call gets made, eventually the platoon chief goes, hey, peel right or whatever.


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[Assistant] Then, you know, you debrief him. You go, hey, what were you thinking about when the shooting started? Well, I saw that target out ahead of us. Okay. What else did you see?


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[Assistant] No, I didn't see anything else. Okay, cool. Next time, I don't want you to even shoot your gun. Okay.


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[Assistant] Same thing happens now, at least the debrief he says, yeaah, I kinda saw that, I saw that little piece of terrain we could get by.


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[Assistant] That seemed to be a good spot, and then Chief made the call, and they're like, okay, so your eyes opened up a little bit more, and this continues down the road until finally he can actually make a decision on his own in these pressure environments. So you can watch someone get put into the chaos and get better at handling it over time. What did it look like at Top Gun?


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[Assistant] Hey, thanks for backing off tonight. I'd be like, hey, thank you for utilizing decentralized command and letting your subordinate leaders go on the assault, go on the attack, go on the offense, because when you do that, my guys are pinned down, they can't do anything. You know how many guys I had tonight out fighting you?


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[Assistant] How many? Four. You know how many you had last night? Four. You know how many you had the night before? Four. No change in the number of OPFOR you're going against.


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[Assistant] What's, what's changing is your ability to lead, is your, your team, your subordinate leader's ability to step up and make things happen, your ability to give good guidance, your ability to make decisions, your ability for your team members to make good decisions. Cause that's the other thing that makes it really drastic, is as eight fire team leaders,


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[Assistant] All of a sudden, you know, when they show up, two of them are kind of proactively making things happen.


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[Assistant] Out of eight fire team leaders are proactively getting after it. It's going to be hard to contain them. And that's when I would have to step up. I wouldn't back off. I would step up my trade at guys. I'd be like, okay, hey, we need to bring it. Uh, we need four more guys when you put somebody over here and we try and screw them over.


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[Assistant] We wouldn't be able to beat a good task unit with good decentralized command, with simple calls, doing cover and move, priority, we couldn't, you couldn't beat them. You could not beat them, right? So, you can get better at this stuff.


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[Assistant] If Marines settle for what they think is good enough, it may result in high casualty rates for the next fight.


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[Assistant] A learner-centric model. This is the next section, it's called a learner-centric model. The learner-centric model ensures that content is relevant to learners, actively engaging and challenging marines in a positive instructional climate.


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[Assistant] For example, discussions on problem solving between the learners and leaders and instructors are an effective method to motivate learners and build teams as they analyze information, consider alternatives and work together to develop a solution to the problem that's posed on them. Now, I am going to venture to guess that some of this section is aimed at


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[Assistant] An old philosophy of training, which existed in the military, well, it definitely existed in the SEAL teams, which is


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[Assistant] Hey, we're going, we're here, you're gonna do what we tell you to do. If you don't do exactly what we tell you to do, it's because you're all screwed up and you need to do it the way we showed you.


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[Assistant] Does not promote this whole idea of thinking and learning and developing. You know, hey, you entered that room wrong.


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[Assistant] This is probably one of the first little, one of the first little things that I noticed as I'm peeling back my career when I was at Team One.


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[Assistant] And I was, I would be instructing, and I was never the lead instructor, but I'd go out and we'd be doing some close quarter combat training. And someone would do something.


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[Assistant] And some of the instructors, some of the more old school instructors would say something along the lines of, you went left, that was wrong.


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[Assistant] Well, when I approached the door, I looked at the hinges, I could see which way it was gonna open, and I thought it would be the quickest way. And you go, okay.


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[Assistant] Here's the thing, and maybe there's a rebuttal to that, maybe there's a, hey listen, you can't, you can't,


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[Assistant] I understand what you were thinking. Here's something else to think about, but here's why it also may have been correct. And I used to say to guys, hey, you did what you did.


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[Assistant] You did what you did. Look, you're gonna be going into houses you've never been in before. That's the whole goal of this is that you can go into a room you've never been in before and you're gonna react how you react. We need to understand why you're reacting that way. If it's, if there's a better way to do it, let's think about it, but let's not


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[Assistant] X out what you did as if this was the wrong thing. By the way,


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[Assistant] You don't get a second chance. In combat, you did, whatever you just did, you just did. And now you gotta deal with it.


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[Assistant] So often people set up instruction as if it's around me, right? This instruction around me, hey, this is how you do an arm lock, right? This is how you do it. Watch me and then do what I just did. Instead of, hey, let me see your arm lock.


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[Assistant] You know who does this? Dean Lister. He'll watch you do something. And when we were at a camp up in Maine, people would say, hey,


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[Assistant] He's so awesome. And I'd be like, oh why? They'd say, he was, he came from across the room. So giant mat space. Thousands of square feet of mat with a hundred people on it. And they'd say he came from across the room.


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[Assistant] And said, hey, I see where you're putting your foot on this position. And it'd be better if you'd move it four inches over here to the right. Try it. And then it would work.


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[Assistant] So it's learner centric. It's not about Dean. It's actually about the students.


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[Assistant] It's fully about the learner. It's a learner-centric model.


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[Assistant] Uh, the Marine Corps, but I think, I think that


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[Assistant] There is an old-school mentality of instruction in the Marine Corps, possibly.


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[Assistant] I, I was never in the Marine Corps, but I did go through multiple training, um, events with the Marine Corps, and I definitely saw some instructor-centric models. You know? And some instru- and I think actually Dean dealt with some instructor-centric models. Dean went up to do some,


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[Assistant] Multiple time world champion jujitsu, how would you do a rear naked choke? Instead they were saying, we do it like this.


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[Assistant] And Dean said, okay, try that on me. Guess what? There's some holes in the plan.


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[Assistant] Next section, self. And the caveat, haven't thrown it out there yet. No, I'm not reading this whole entire book. We're skipping big chunks. You can get it yourself. It's free. It's online. It's a PDF. You can download it. The Marine Corps is very generous with their knowledge. Next section, self-directed learning.


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[Assistant] Like mission tactics, self-directed learning benefits the leader and instructor by giving the learner more ownership and autonomy.


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[Assistant] Which enables the leader or instructor to focus on learners who need more help or to explore alternate ways to improve the learning environment.


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[Assistant] The commander, leader, instructor or mentor agrees to provide the learners with the necessary support and guidance to help them accomplish their missions without unnecessarily prescribing their actions. Oh, decentralized command. We, we want you to know how to do this. We want you to take ownership of what you learned. Why? Cause then you're going to be more invested in it.


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[Assistant] Vicarious experience is critical because even the most realistic training experiences in military education fall short of the reality of combat.


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[Assistant] Therefore, the more vicarious experience that a Marine obtains, the less likely that a new experience in combat or otherwise will be completely unique. Yes, you cannot simulate everything. I used to joke about this at trade, I would say.


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[Assistant] Unfortunately, I can't just shoot you guys, you know, and they laugh because we do everything else. I was standing with the commanding officer of a SEAL team as one of his SEAL task units was out in the, out in the


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[Assistant] Desert in the Imperial Valley of California and there was total mayhem going on.


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[Assistant] And we both have radios on, we're listening to all the calls getting made, there's strobes going off, there's explosions going off, there's communication.


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[Assistant] Just all this is happening. And it's, we have the perfect view. There's guys on the ridge and we're looking at like a bowl.


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[Assistant] Uh, uh, a valley and then guys are up on the ridgelines and you can see them all from our vantage point.


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[Assistant] And I just looked at him, I said, there is no better training in the world for guys than what these guys are. It's so realistic, it was so crazy. Uhm, but my point was, even with that, there was things that you can't simulate.


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[Assistant] There's things that you cannot simulate. And so,


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[Assistant] You have to use these vicarious experiences so that people can learn. Uhm.


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[Assistant] What it's really gonna be like, right? And you can't, look, you can't, you cannot fully get there. You can't fully get there. There's emotions that you cannot trigger unless someone is about to, could die right now, right? In jujitsu, right? There's, you, you train for MMA. Not even jujitsu, MMA.


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[Assistant] We can throw punches, we can grapple, we can exhaust them, we can do all these things, but you can't.


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[Assistant] Have them walking into the octagon in the UFC. Even if you, and I used to, like we, when we used to spar, we used to do it on Saturdays when there was a crowd here, get the crowd to start commenting. You can do all those things.


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[Assistant] That last little thing, you cannot simulate. You cannot simulate.


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[Assistant] And so you want to build up, you want to close that gap as much as possible. Part of it is through the training. Part of it is through these vicarious experiences and reading and learning about them. But there was a guy on EF online today saying, Hey, I understand that I'm supposed to detach, but there comes a point when it starts happening and I, how do I get ready for that?


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[Assistant] And the thing was, the advice I gave him, I was a little, let's say I was a little nervous about the advice I gave this guy.


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[Assistant] Because I was saying, hey, you need to set yourself up for surprise things that you're not ready for. You actually want to tell, like if I want to get ready to defend myself.


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[Assistant] And you start tracking on me and one night at Vaughan's, you know, I'm out there getting some, picking up some steak.


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[Assistant] And you s- I get into my car or whatever I'm getting in my car and you spring out of somewhere and start yelling and screaming with a knife in your hand to see how I react. And next thing you know you got two shi- two, two gunshots to the head. Right?


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[Assistant] You know, talk to your wife and have your wife throw scenarios at you. And then I had to give the same parameters. Cause if you go, imagine if you said, and I said, listen, uh, you want to,


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[Assistant] Right, cause his wife might come home and say, his wife might come home and say, I've decided to leave you.


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[Assistant] So we have to put parameters on it. We have to think through it. But if you really want to...


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[Assistant] To get someone used to being under stress, that's what you do. You put them under stress. That's what you do. And it's hard to do that if you, if someone knows it's a role play, there's a little thing in the back of their mind.


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[Assistant] But if they don't, hey, you can, you can create a lot of stress on someone.


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[Assistant] The gap is when you've got a platoon of guys and they're receiving


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[Assistant] Enemy fire. Air-quote enemy fire.


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[Assistant] And one of the guys just gets up and charges, you know, the bad guy and it's great and he happens to get him or whatever. But.


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[Assistant] If those are real bullets, the reaction might, it might be different. Right. You can't, and it goes both ways too, because I used, I used to explain that's what evens it out for our training. What evens it out is the bad guys, the op, my op for, they don't care if they die either because they're, they're, they're going to get reset and we'll go again. Right. But actually the Mujahideen often didn't care if they died.


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[Assistant] And so they have an advantage there. We care about our friends. We care about our comrades in arms. So we're going to fight a different way than the Mujahideen. That's just, they don't care. Not all the time, but that's a part of their mindset is, hey, if I die, that's cool. Martyrdom.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and then you gotta try and close that gap to the best of your ability, and the way you do that is different instructors, different, uh, angles, and then,


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[Assistant] As we're talking about here, vicarious living, vicarious experience. Hey, tell me what that was like from you. And there's a chance that you go, you know what? Oh, I know what. I remember this guy. I remember this. All right. I've seen this before.


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[Assistant] Which is what they're going for. Alright, so going back to the book here.


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[Assistant] That's a really hard thing to train in yourself. It's a really hard thing to train in yourself.


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[Assistant] For the leadership primer, which again, this is EF online. We got this thing called the leadership primer where you


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[Assistant] You know, you can just press play, leadership primer. And it's me saying, hey, this is what you, think about this. And it just gets you in the leadership mindset because


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[Assistant] If you're there already, that's one less step you have to take. Hey, if I tell you, hey Echo, you're gonna walk in that room and you're gonna get into a fight.


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[Assistant] If I tell you that there's a guy waiting to fight you in that room, you are gonna do eight times better than if you just walk into that room thinking about, you know, getting sushi.


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[Assistant] Right? You're gonna do eight times better, minimal. You're gonna be ready, you're gonna be primed, you're gonna be thinking, you're gonna be looking for an exit, you're gonna be looking for an entrance, you're gonna see what is weak, gonna size up your target, all that's gonna happen the second you walk in there. If you're not expecting it all, it doesn't happen at all.


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[Assistant] So getting yourself thinking that way is absolutely important. And you know, I'll take this whole thing one step further.


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[Assistant] You actually have to ask yourself one level deeper than that. Which is, for lack of a better way of explaining it, what would Jocko actually do right now?


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[Assistant] Because the surface answer of what would Jaco do is like, oh, you'd just BTF through this, right? That's the surface answer. It's not the real answer.


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[Assistant] And that's the difference. And I did a bad job sometimes in the teams of guys that worked with me, but they didn't, they got the surface jocco, but they didn't get the next level. And so they'd


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[Assistant] Go overseas and have to report to some army, uh, some army major that...


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[Assistant] They didn't get along with, and they'd think, what would Jocko do? Jocko would tell this guy better straighten himself out. No, and actually that's the wrong answer. Jocko would actually develop an awesome relationship with this guy, get to know him really well, and start planting seeds in his head where we ran everything. That's what Jocko would do. So, it's a little bit deeper than that, you have to go next level.


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[Assistant] Hey, if, it's just like this. If, if I said to L.K. Echo, when you go in this room, someone's gonna get, attack you. And you walk in, first person you see, you punch them in the face.


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[Assistant] And it ends up being whatever. Someone that didn't deserve it, right? That's a problem. You were overly primed and you didn't really think through the problem. So there's a...


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[Assistant] There's another level there that you gotta go. But to your point, correct. How can you get yourself


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[Assistant] You know, I talk about leadership strategy and tactics, there's a list of 12 things to do as a leader. And I'm like, look, you can't read this list of 12 things and be like, okay, good, cool. Now, no, if you're a new leader and you check in before you go into the meeting,


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[Assistant] With your subordinate or with your leader, you just take a look, take three minutes and read through that thing and be like, alright, I'm thinking the right way. I've got my mind primed for what I'm gonna go make happen right now.


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[Assistant] And when somebody blames me for something, instead of going, actually it's not my fault at all, instead you go,


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[Assistant] Yeaah, okay, you know what, let me get out my notebook and actually write down what you're saying.


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[Assistant] So I can make sure I can get it fixed. Cause I don't want to be the person that's responsible for making mistakes. But I'm ready to take it on and fix it.


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[Assistant] You do these training scenarios and you, as much as you can, you say, look,


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[Assistant] Hey Dave, I've been having a problem losing my temper with people. Can you do me a favor and just put me through some temper tests?


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[Assistant] Hey Jocko, this isn't a good example for you to set a national on front if you're not even, uh, submitting this paperwork on time. And I go...


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[Assistant] Be careful. No hydro shocks to your friend's chest because they surprise you trying to steal your steak.


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[Assistant] You know who tries to get me to take some kind of a training time out? Dean Lister.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well a training timeout would be like, actually remember when you used to be claustrophobic? When you remember when you used to be more claustrophobic?


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[Assistant] You would kind of, your training time out was, I look, I didn't have a submission on you at all. But you would tap out and just say, I, there was a guy when I was at team two that I used to train with and he would get so mad and he would just go.


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[Assistant] He's so like mad at me as a person. Oh, for a mad at you. Because I was putting this, the pressure.


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[Assistant] Marines need time to reflect on new learning experiences to exploit their lessons. Self-reflection internalizes experience and increases mental preparedness for employment across the range of military operations.


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[Assistant] So you gotta think about what happened. Little thing about Madison here, and then on to General Al Grey.


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[Assistant] And they're the sum of what it's saying about they're saying marines need to make time to reflect in order to build understanding exploit lessons and be ready to adapt as situations change.


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[Assistant] So you kinda have to debrief. Then you have to debrief yourself.


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[Assistant] Next section, the role of the instructor. Regardless of the location of location or position, Marine instructors are knowledgeable, skilled, competent, and confident in their abilities. Once again, this is a statement of fact.


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[Assistant] That's the way marine instructors are. They're knowledgeable, skilled, competent, and confident in their abilities. Fast forward a little bit. Assessments.


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[Assistant] So that they can further develop professionally rather than an arbitrary test score that does not capture growth or change. The most effective instructors use the coach, teach, mentor approach to provide learners with constructive feedback.


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[Assistant] You know the, uh, as we, as we covered the code, the evaluations, the protocols, and I think I got asked, somebody asked me, would you recommend doing this in a


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[Assistant] In a company, you know, in a company and I'm like, yeah, the biggest problem with the Navy and the Marine Corps evaluation systems is that they're annual.


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[Assistant] Certainly coming out once a year. This idea here that you have to provide assessments more often than that. They don't necessarily need to be official, but you gotta give people feedback.


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[Assistant] Fast forward. Learners and instructors alike should understand that Marines learn because of their errors, not despite them.


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[Assistant] Isn't that a, isn't that a, isn't that a smart thing to think to yourself?


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[Assistant] Echo Charles are going to learn because of their errors.


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[Assistant] Changes your mindset a little bit when the kids make a mistake. It's their turn to learn.


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[Assistant] Just as MCDP-1 confirms that war is a human enterprise and that no amount of technology can reduce the human dimension, the learning environment is also primarily based on human characteristics rather than equipment. Technology can support, expand,


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[Assistant] And individualized learning. It is one of the many tools to support learning objectives.


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[Assistant] Battle is the ultimate conclusion of this section. Battle is the ultimate test of military learning.


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[Assistant] And training as Marines will fight is a time-honored Marine Corps principle. Train as you fight.


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[Assistant] In preparing for battle, Marines leverage the art and science of learning along with helpful technologies to enhance learning environments, tailor learning experiences, and provide constructive feedback to accelerate learning. There you go.


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[Assistant] Chapter 4, The Learning Leader. Hmm.


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[Assistant] It all just kind of comes together in this section four, doesn't it? The learning leader.


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[Assistant] Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other. John F. Kennedy.


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[Assistant] The future operating environment will place new demands on leaders at all levels. Our leaders must have the training, education, and experience to meet those demands. And that's General Dunford, 36th Commandant of the Marine Corps and the 19th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And the last quote,


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[Assistant] Throughout history, the difference between brilli- brilliantly performing armies and mediocre ones has always depended on a small handful of combat leaders. And that is Dave Burke's friend, John Boyd. Throughout history, leadership has been the most important thing on the battlefield. Small handful of combat leaders.


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[Assistant] When you're in a, in a, what's it called when there's a whole bunch of airplane in the sky? What are those, all those airplanes together called?


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[Assistant] And if you're going, would you go on a mission? Like I would go on a mission with a seal platoon, you would go on a mission with an air wing.


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[Assistant] Is it true or is it, is it also true in an air wing on an assault that a couple combat, a couple good leaders, good pilots can make a big difference? That is true.


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[Assistant] How many aircraft, how many sections would you go out, roll out on, on a...


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[Assistant] On a mission that you would train for at Top Gun, and the reason I'm saying that like, when you talk about you have multiple aircraft, like sort of the FTX scenario, the final training exercises, how many aircraft are going out? How many sections?