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[Assistant] But to not have it out there, you know that that commander took it to the nth degree and said, you know what? All of my men are gonna die for no reason now if I continue on with this. So therefore we are going to surrender and hopefully we'll come back to fight another day.


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[Assistant] Such conduct, such conduct, ought to be prescribed, pronounced, infamous, and punishable with death.


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[Assistant] The generals, officers and soldiers who in battle have saved their lives by capitulating ought to be decimated.


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[Assistant] He who commands the arms to be surrendered and those who obey him are alike traders and deserve capital punishment.


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[Assistant] Now we're gonna get into a little bit of uh, something that we now refer to as extreme ownership.


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[Assistant] A general-in-chief cannot exonerate himself from responsibility for his faults by pleading an order of his sovereign or the minister.


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[Assistant] You, if I tell you to do something and it doesn't go well for you?


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[Assistant] You're out in the field, and I told you, hey, charge this machine gun nest, and you do it and everyone dies, and you come back and say, hey, it wasn't my fault, it was Jaco's fault.


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[Assistant] The point is here, no. Doesn't work that way. Does not work that way.


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[Assistant] It follows that every general in chief who undertakes to execute a plan which he knows to be bad is culpable.


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[Assistant] So, if I tell you to go attack that machine gun nest and you know it's a bad plan, and you execute it anyways, your fault.


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[Assistant] You can't blame your parents for your speeding Echo Charles. I'm not gonna let you do that.


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[Assistant] No, that's the point here is that...


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[Assistant] If you're doing something, this is even more of an extreme point. This is if your parents tell you to speed.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you should be like, Hey, I'm not doing this. Oh, in fact, he goes on. He should communicate his reasons, insist on a change of plan and finally resign his commission rather than become the instrument of the of his army's ruin.


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[Assistant] This is just the, this is the most, probably the most powerful thing we're gonna talk about tonight. I'm gonna read it again.


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[Assistant] When the individual from whom it proceeds is at a distance from the field of operations and but partially or not at all acquainted with the actual condition of things. So this is an order that's coming on from high from somebody that doesn't know. Hence it follows.


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[Assistant] That every general in chief who undertakes to execute a plan which he knows to be bad is culpable.


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[Assistant] He should communicate his reasons, insist on a change of plan, and finally,


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[Assistant] Resign his commission. So quit his job. Rather than become an instrument of his army's ruin.


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[Assistant] Every general in chief who in consequence of orders from his superiors gives battle with a certainty of defeat is equally culpable. This is ownership.


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[Assistant] This is, hey, I got told to do something. I don't agree with it. Hey boss, you gotta listen to me here. This is not the way we need to execute this. Here's a better plan. Here's another plan. Here's a, here's an alternative. Because if you


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[Assistant] Give battle with the certainty of defeat, you're culpable.


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[Assistant] Individual responsibility. And this is especially important to have this concept coming from somebody that was as


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[Assistant] So, that's how important it is to have this.


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[Assistant] This culture in your organization to make sure that everybody knows, regardless of what you get told, you've got to do the right thing.


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[Assistant] And it's everyone's individual responsibility to take extreme ownership of everything that's happening, and not just say, you know what, I'm gonna point my finger up the chain of command. Blame them when something goes wrong.


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[Assistant] I've talked about this before. You know how many times I blamed my bosses for things that went wrong? Zero.


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[Assistant] Never blame my bosses. How could it ever be their fault? I was in charge.


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[Assistant] And if they told me to do something that was stupid, I would tell them, look, I'm not doing that. Here's why. Let's find a better way.


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[Assistant] The first qualification of a general-in-chief is to possess a cool head.


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[Assistant] So that things may appear to him in their true proportions and as they really are.


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[Assistant] It's a beautiful statement. Possess a cool head so that things may appear to him in their true proportions and as they really are. He should not suffer himself to be unduly affected by good or bad news.


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[Assistant] The impressions which are made upon his mind successively or simultaneously in the course of a day should be so classified in his memory that each shall occupy its proper place.


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[Assistant] For sound, reasoning and judgment result from first examining each of these varied impressions by itself and then comparing them all with one another. So you're gonna hear all these things.


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[Assistant] All these different impressions you're gonna get. Rumors. Gossip.


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[Assistant] Reports. Probably heard this the first report in war is always wrong. You can hear all that stuff and you gotta, you gotta detach from it. You can't get emotional. You gotta categorize them. And then once you hear them all, you can look at them and assess them all in their own light.


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[Assistant] There are reason, there are some men who, from their physical and moral constitution, deck everything in the colors of imagination.


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[Assistant] With whatever knowledge, talents, courage, or other good qualities, these may be endowed.


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[Assistant] Nature has not fitted them for the command of armies.


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[Assistant] And the direction of the great operations of war. So anybody that gets emotional, that cloud, that hears something and lets it cloud their decisions, that gets too close to problems, they're not cut out to lead in war.


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[Assistant] And I 100% agree with that. And they're not cut out to lead in any situation.


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[Assistant] To be familiar with the geography and topography of the country. To be skillful in making reconnaissance. To be attentive to the dispatch of orders.


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[Assistant] To be capable of exhibiting with simplicity the most complicated movements of an army.


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[Assistant] These are qualifications that should distinguish the officer called to the station of chief of staff.


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[Assistant] And my favorite of those is to be capable of exhibiting with simplicity the most complicated movements of the army.


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[Assistant] Talk about all this all the time. It's one of our laws of combat. It's a chapter in extreme ownership that we wrote about in simplicity. And a lot of times we talk about giving clear, concise orders. Simple, clear and concise orders.


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[Assistant] So that's, that's another mark of someone that can lead well is someone that can take complex ideas, simplify them, and communicate them in a simple manner.


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[Assistant] And there are, I mean there definitely are coaches that can take complex moves and break them down very simply.


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[Assistant] That is, that is what makes a good instructor, right? That is what makes a good instructor, someone that can explain to you exactly


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[Assistant] What you do with your weight, exactly where you put your forearm, exactly. And then, and then explains to you that, you know what, this might be a little bit different from you, for you, because you're a different human.


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[Assistant] The first principle of a general-in-chief is to calculate what he must do.


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[Assistant] To see if he has all the means to surmount the obstacles with which the enemy can oppose him.


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[Assistant] And although holding to general principles, a general should never lose sight of everything to enable him to profit from these accidents. That is the mark of a genius.


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[Assistant] In war, there is but one favorable moment. The great art is to seize it.


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[Assistant] It's a business, obviously, jujitsu, obviously fighting, obviously these, that's just, there's, there's moments, there's opportunity, there's opportunity. And when you, when you have that opportunity, the art is to seize it very simply.


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[Assistant] Defensive war does not exclude attacking, just as offensive war does not exclude defending. Although its aim


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[Assistant] Maybe to force the frontier and invade the enemy's country.


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[Assistant] To not only think about, hey, you should be attacking and defending at the same time. And defending and attacking at the same time. But also, we gotta remember the, the contradiction in the fact that he's


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[Assistant] A guy that talks about offense, offense, offense but even he has to balance that with defense.


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[Assistant] Even Napoleon has to balance things. I'm gonna do the last one.


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[Assistant] A doubtful general who acts without principles and without plan, even though he lead, even though he lead an army numerically superior to that of the enemy, almost always finds himself inferior to the latter on the field of battle. Fumblings, the middle course, lose all in war.


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[Assistant] And I just like the fact that he's talking about principled leadership.


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[Assistant] And I would say that principled leadership not just in a leadership position, but as a person. What are your principles as a person?


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[Assistant] Waiver or you just don't have principles on which to stand, then you fall apart.


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[Assistant] I think that everybody should look to define what their principles are. Actually define them. I can tell you that, I would love to tell you that when I was, you know,


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[Assistant] 19 years old, I sat down and wrote down Jaco's principles of life. I didn't do that. I wish I would've.


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[Assistant] And I, and I can tell you that as I grew up in the SEAL teams, there I...


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[Assistant] Probably added principles. And I added some bad ones, and I added some good ones.


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[Assistant] Those, those principles though, when you get to a point where you know that your principles are solid, and honestly to me, the best


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[Assistant] Or the, the biggest thing I've done to define the principles.


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[Assistant] That I live by is really the book that Leif and I wrote, Extreme Ownership. That's the, that was the culmination of 20 years in the SEAL teams.


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[Assistant] And putting together the principles that, that, that I live by and survive by.


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[Assistant] So I think it's just very important to think about what your principles are as a person, what you're trying to achieve and have those principles like a guiding strategy underneath everything that you're doing.


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[Assistant] And that's one thing that's good about these podcasts is that, you know, I'm, I'm,


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[Assistant] I've been lucky enough to capture some of these, you know, like the letters that we read last time, these counseling letters. I'm talking about my personal principles in those. Those were my principles on how to lead.


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[Assistant] And so, I think it's important to...


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[Assistant] Come up with those principles and define them. And let those principles reflect, you know, who you are as a person and what you want to be.


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[Assistant] And I wish that I would have been told to do that when I was 13 years old. Because I think it is that important as a person.


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[Assistant] And let me tell you, what you're talking about right now. Your number one principle.


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[Assistant] If I look at myself 10 years ago, I know nothing compared to what I know now.


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[Assistant] If I looked at myself 20 years ago, I know even less. I'm just a lost animal out in the woods.


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[Assistant] So you have to, you know, build these principles. And like you said,


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[Assistant] And I think there's a difference between being a flip-flopper, like, you know, you hear politicians get, you know, oh, you're a flip-flopper because you said you don't support gun control and now you, and now you, you do support it, now you don't support it or whatever, you do support


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[Assistant] Bringing in refugees or not, so, and people get called a flip-flopper. And I actually,


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[Assistant] I think there's some core principles that shouldn't change, even for a politician and even for a person, but there's a lot of peripheral


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[Assistant] Where the SEAL Teams was absolutely the most important thing and nothing else was even a close second. Including things like my personal health. Including things like my own family.


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[Assistant] Unimportant compared to the SEAL teams.


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[Assistant] And I wouldn't trade that, I wouldn't even want to change that principle. I mean, that's what I needed at the time to do a good job.


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[Assistant] But, you know, at some point I had to say, okay, I...


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[Assistant] I need to think about something else. You know, I need to evolve as a human.


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[Assistant] And, and you know, little things like I need to take care of my family, you know, I need to actually pay attention to them and not just pay attention to my seal platoon or my seal task unit or the guys I'm working with. So you, so I think it's okay to evolve your principles, but I think more important


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[Assistant] Is that you need to define your principles and where you are and that also is a way to


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[Assistant] Check your growth and see what course you're on.


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[Assistant] You know, this is one thing that I talk about. Uh, when I was in the SEAL teams, I used to talk about this.


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[Assistant] What do you think the most important piece of information on the battlefield is, Echo?


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[Assistant] Yeah, so I used to ask that question to everybody, to senior guys, junior guys, and they'd all kinds of, you know, where, you know, where the bad guys are, what, you know,


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[Assistant] Where the target is, I mean everyone would have different answers. And there's actually only one answer.


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[Assistant] The most important piece of information that you can have on the battlefield is where you are. Is to know where you are on the battlefield. Do you know where you're at? If you don't know where you're at,


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[Assistant] If you don't know where you're at, can you get close air support? Can you call for aircraft to come in and drop bombs? No, you don't even know where you are.


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[Assistant] So that piece of datum, when you apply that to life.


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[Assistant] How do you know where you are if you're not tracking what your principles are?


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[Assistant] The answer is you're not, you're not gonna, you're not gonna know where you are and you're not gonna see how you evolve. And when I work with businesses, I use the same principles. Businesses will go out and operate off of instinct.


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[Assistant] Now, you have to trust your instinct and you have to understand it, but you also have to track what the facts are.


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[Assistant] You know, I say, like, where are your metrics? How do you know what you did?


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[Assistant] Last year this time, in profitability. How do you know what you did in sales?


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[Assistant] How do you know what you did in product development? If you're not tracking it, you don't know where you are on the battlefield. And if you don't know where you are on the battlefield, you're


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[Assistant] And Echo just used the word thus. And I like that.


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[Assistant] I like that. No, it's true. And I think that's, uh, I think this is a good, good thing to keep in mind as, you know, people move forward. Is what are your principles? How are they evolving? How are they improving? Have they gotten better?


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[Assistant] Those are great questions for every individual to ask. Those are questions I'm asking myself right now.


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[Assistant] On the Jocko Podcast. Live. It's happening.


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[Assistant] So speaking of which, we got some questions.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so that was, you know, in reference to a person that, that we went through a counseling sheet on and the


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[Assistant] Fact was that I had heard some bad stuff about him, you know, that he had a bad reputation.


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[Assistant] Et cetera. And so I was saying that, Hey, you know, I, I treat everyone like a blank slate and.


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[Assistant] So first of all, I talked about this before is I set low expectations for people. I don't have a super high expectations of.


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[Assistant] What they're gonna do and how well they're gonna deliver and actually somebody hit me on Twitter today and said something along the lines of


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[Assistant] I like the fact that everyone with you starts at zero. And he said I'm the same way. He was saying he was the same way. And I think that's a pretty good attitude to have. Like everyone starts at zero.


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[Assistant] I just don't set high expectations. I set them at zero. Like, you show me who you are. I'm not gonna predict one way or the other. Uh, I understand that people do crazy things.


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[Assistant] Their ego, their personality, their issues, I mean people, their emotions.


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[Assistant] People do crazy things, so I don't- That's another thing that keeps me from giving people all kinds of credit out of the gate.


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[Assistant] And I do weigh what other people say. You know, I take it into account, but I definitely...


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[Assistant] I'm careful to use my own judgement and not cloud my vision with what somebody else said about so and so. So.


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[Assistant] You know, how do I deal with misjudging a person? It's kind of what we were just talking about. I don't set permanent judgment on someone.


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[Assistant] And say, Echo's bad and I don't like him and I don't trust him.


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[Assistant] That's not a permanent thing. You know, I, I'm gonna build from zero and I'm gonna say, Oh, you know what? Actually, Hey, he, he did a good job with that or Hey, he had my back on that. So I'm not stuck in my ways and I don't.


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[Assistant] I don't hold grudges against people and say this person's never gonna change. That being said...


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[Assistant] Man, it's hard to change the spots of the leopard. You know, people are who they are and it's very difficult. Yes sir, some people can grow and change and evolve and that's great. But a lot of people, they are who they are and so you have to take that into account as well.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and so I think the same thing that you're just saying is what I'm saying is I don't, I'm not going to misjudge someone because my judgment is not a permanent, all, all powerful statement of one time.


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[Assistant] I'm constantly looking at people and like you said, learning impressions of their whole, their whole entity. Yeaah. What they're all about. Next.


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[Assistant] Okay, so this is actually a question, you know, we plucked one out of many of people that have hit us up on, on Twitter about where to find a good Brazilian jujitsu gym because people, I think people have heard us talking about jujitsu and they heard me talking about it with Joe Rogan.


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[Assistant] You know, who are we talking about with Tim Ferriss? I mean, it's something that I talk about, something that is definitely a big part of my life. I know it's a big part of your life as well. And so people think, you know, I'd like to check that out and I think that's awesome. And if you're out there and you're going to ask me if you should start jujitsu,


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[Assistant] And you're going to give me a whole bunch of quantifiers that you're old or you work a lot or you.


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[Assistant] You've been sick or you've been injured or whatever you're gonna tell me and I can tell you 99.99 99.9% of the time my answer is gonna be yes. You should start jiu-jitsu.


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[Assistant] Contagious. Except if your sickness is contagious, or if you're a bully.


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[Assistant] Or you're a sadist. If you're an evil person that's hungry for power, I'm gonna tell you don't, uhm, start jiu-jitsu. Because you're gonna use it for bad things.


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[Assistant] Yeah, jiu-jitsu is a self-regulating scene for the most part.


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[Assistant] As a self-regulating scene, very few people can maintain, and most people with bully, bullying attitudes don't have the humility to continue in jujitsu for a long time anyways.


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[Assistant] So that's another way that it self-polices. So how do you find a good, uh, jujitsu gym?


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[Assistant] Obviously you start with Google, you find out some locations. To me, proximity is very important. So you want a place that's, you know, on your way to work, on your way home from work, close to your house. So it's somewhere that you're going to get in there and train because you don't want to sign up for a gym.


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[Assistant] And never go because it's too far, too out of the way. So proximity is definitely a factor. Then you gotta ask yourself, what are you looking for? Because jujitsu gyms vary tremendously in how they're set up, how they're run.


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[Assistant] And all those things, I mean, there's really super traditional


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[Assistant] Brazilian jiu-jitsu gyms where they, you, you bow before you get on the mat. You bow after you're, you bow to the instructor when you're going to talk to them. You are very, they're very strict with uniforms. So, you know, only a white uniform. You have to have this certain patch on your uniform to represent the school. That's, that's one type of, uh,


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[Assistant] Atmosphere that you could have. Then you could have a very loose atmosphere where it's like, you know, you're gonna come in, you're gonna train. There's no bowing. There's, there's handshakes and there's respect, but it's not as overt and not as...


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[Assistant] You know, for me, I always, you know, and, and if you come to my gym, it's a very, it's a very relaxed atmosphere in terms of traditionally imposed discipline. But when you roll, there will be discipline imposed.


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[Assistant] I'm going to go over here with this crew today and they're going to bring it or you know what? I'm going to chill with these guys over here and we're going to work on some technique and maybe I can ask this guy about that. Yeah. So that's, that's good. That is good.


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[Assistant] Uhm, you, you know, there's also, A, are you gonna go to a school that's very focused on sport jiu-jitsu? Right. Which is, hey, we're gonna compete, we're gonna learn the techniques that are very applicable to


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[Assistant] Or am I gonna do something that's more towards self defense and or MMA? And a classic example I think of that is the, uh, is the 50-50 guard.


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[Assistant] Where, and it's a position in jujitsu, if you don't know jujitsu, where if you're in a no rules situation, you're very vulnerable to a devastating submission called the heel hook. And so it's.


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[Assistant] But there's, there's certain competition rules that don't allow for heel hooks in that position. So depending on what kind of school you're at, one of them, you're going to get, you're going to be in a different situation in that, in that one position.


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[Assistant] And, and you know, actually at our school we do, we do both, but do you want to do MMA focus? Do you want to do gi or no gi? And again, there's benefits to both those and they're both fun.


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[Assistant] And I like training both. Uhm, so, so you kind of kind of think about what you're looking for.


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[Assistant] And then, and then bring that into the school and, and then go try some classes. You know, take some classes at a school and see what they're like.


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[Assistant] Uh, do they have like the similar goals? If you want to compete, if that's your goal, then...


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[Assistant] Are the other people that you talk to, are they like, yeah, I compete all the time, there's a tournament coming up, or are they like, yeah, you know, we compete sometimes, or actually I don't care about competing, because there's plenty of people that train jiu-jitsu, they don't care about competing.


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[Assistant] Are people rolling with you trying to kill you? Which 99% of the time in a jujitsu school is not going to happen. But it can happen. It can happen. So what, and then it's like what was the instructor like? Is the instructor personal? Is the instructor, you know what we were talking about earlier, is he clear, is he concise, is he understand?


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[Assistant] Can you understand him? Can you understand the way he's explaining moves? Now there's a, you gotta give a little leeway there. If you jump into a class that's an advanced class, you're not gonna understand everything. You know? And people ask me on how to get started on Jiu Jitsu and I tell them to go immersion training. Just like a language. Just get in there and start training and you're gonna get,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Destroyed at first. And then you're gonna slowly learn and the next thing you know, that's the fastest way to learn a language is to get immersed in it and do the same thing with jujitsu.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, is the instructor having fun? Is the guy having fun or the girl, are they having fun?


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[Assistant] Teaching. Is it a fun thing? Because you want jiu-jitsu to be fun, and you want the instructor to be having fun, because if the instructor's not having fun, well then what, you know, what are they gonna be like in six months if they're not having fun today?


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[Assistant] Then what are they going to be like in six months? So that's, that's another important piece.


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[Assistant] Two different sports. Almost, yeaah. They are, but at the same time, you're gonna get...


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[Assistant] And that's the important thing is to get jujitsu. And just like we talked about the evolution of your principles, let your,


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[Assistant] You know, your game should evolve as well. And almost everybody that's never done jiu-jitsu before, if you said, well, why do you want to take jiu-jitsu? 90% of them are going to say of self-defense, right? And so because, you know, people say, I want to learn to defend myself.


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[Assistant] There's not too many people that are going to be saying, you know what, I really have become interested in the cerebral aspect of jiu-jitsu, which maybe some people that listen to us talk about it, or listen to Joe Rogan talk about it.


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[Assistant] You know, they'll say, oh, that guy's talking about this thing as if it's a very cerebral experience. So maybe someone, but, but most people, yeah, I want to learn how to defend myself. I want to make sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] An obsession of how did that move happen? So that's what you gotta, that's what you gotta be ready to evolve.


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[Assistant] Uh, the other thing that I gotta say is you gotta, jiu-jitsu, as much as I love it, jiu-jitsu is not a religion and, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the, the black belt instructor at the school does not have contact or direct communications with God, right? So, just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think keep that in mind. It's a person that is trained in a sport for longer than you. Okay, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just keep that in mind. It's not a cult. There should be an open atmosphere. In my opinion, you should be looking for a jujitsu school that has an open atmosphere, not a cult controlling atmosphere. Uhm.


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[Assistant] You know, that being said, and I said this already, RESPECT!


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[Assistant] Yes, absolutely. You should respect the people that are there and respect your training partners and respect your instructors for sure.


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[Assistant] You shouldn't be worshipping them and they shouldn't be expecting you to worship them. So just be advised because jujitsu it should be.


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[Assistant] It should be fun, it should be friendly, it should be engaging, the atmosphere should be good, and it should be competitive without being cutthroat.


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[Assistant] You know, you, you should wanna go without fear of having a death match every single night. Unless that's what you're looking for. And you just said that Echo, I mean like, I go in every night looking for a death match against Dean, against you, against Andy, you know, against


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who, Craig or Greg, I mean, our crew of murderers, I'm going in for a death match every night. And even when I don't want a death match, I give it to them. Because that's how I'm getting better and that's part of my own...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Definitely got better than I would if I was either A, sitting on the side of the mat, B, rolling with someone that's not as good, or C, staying at home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so yeaah, go out there, enjoy jiu jitsu, uhm, but make sure you don't fall into a cult.


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[Assistant] I would basically say no. I don't recommend it. And again, this is just a, if you talk to Dom Dagostino, who's a doctor or, or Mr. Paleo himself, Rob Wolf.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you, if you go and listen to his podcast or Dr. Peter Attia, you know, who I've talked about before, these guys, they know what they're talking about and they will tell you what I'm telling you. And these guys will back it up with science upon science upon science. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fruit, carbohydrates, spike your insulin level, just not good for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, am I an extremist? No, have some blueberries. Get your blueberries on. Get your blackberries on. That's awesome. But take a bunch of fruit and put it with some apple juice and mix it up in a blender and eat, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 400 grams of carbohydrate in one shot? No, don't do that. It's not good for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeaah, I, I, when, when you're, when you're trying to eat clean, which you should be trying to eat clean 80% of the time as anyone will tell you, uhm, you know, keep it clean and, and keep it to, you know, fat and, and protein. If you can, do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think, I think, I think most people would think that they are the same thing, losing your temper and blowing up at someone. And I can tell you that it's almost never good to do that. And when I say almost never, I mean...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is some possible scenarios where it might need to happen. So, if you lose your temper, you blow up at somebody, what are you showing? You're showing that you can't


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Control your temper. And if you can't control your temper, then what can you control?


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[Assistant] Right? And I'm not saying you should show no emotions because if you show no emotions then you're a robot and robots can't lead people and people don't follow robots. So there's some, obviously some level of showing emotions is needed. But if you're losing your temper, you're not thinking clearly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you're not thinking clearly because you've lost your temper, you can't even read their reactions.


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[Assistant] To what you're saying and the fact that you're blowing up is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is clouding your own vision. The fact that you're losing your temper is clouding your own vision.


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[Assistant] And so you gotta detach in order to be observant, in order to watch what your actions are. So, if you do have to blow up,


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[Assistant] And when, okay, so when, when does this almost never happen? If, if you were working for me, and you did something wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was grievous. It was like pretty grievous. Like it could have got someone hurt. And I said echo, hey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This was bad. This is what happened. I don't know what I did wrong that thought that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Made you think that would be okay, but whatever I, image I gave you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That made you think this was okay. I, this is the worst mistake I've ever made. We can never let this happen again. Okay, and you're like, yeah, okay. And then four days later you do it again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'd come at the same approach, maybe a little bit different, like, hey Echo, I, I, I don't know if there's anything I could do to make this more clear than I did. What can I do to make you understand? So we might go three or four or five iterations, maybe one more iteration I should say. Three iterations of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You not, you failing to do what you're supposed to do and getting someone hurt or almost getting someone hurt. So now I go, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He hasn't listened to the indirect approach. He hasn't listened to the direct approach. He hasn't, I've taken ownership of it. He hasn't taken any yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I need to come at a different angle. Okay, I need to lose my temper with him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's gonna be a calculation, and I won't actually lose my temper with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I will raise my voice, I will get loud, I will point.


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[Assistant] And I will make damn sure that you understand that this infraction that you have committed is severe and grievous and can never happen again. And that's the situation where I would quote unquote blow up at somebody. It is so rare that it's so rare


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, in my military career, off the top of my head, I can remember one and only one incident of this. Where I actually said, you know what, this was, this was a bad mistake. I could see where these guys think they might be able to get away with this, again, in the future, and I'm gonna make sure that they realize that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They chose to do something a certain way and in my, my assessment of it was that they would do it again if I didn't make it perfectly clear


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[Assistant] That this could never happen again. And so I raised my voice, I pointed in the face and, you know, gave them 20 seconds of, of intensity. And the situation never happened again. And they apologized.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't lose your temper, people. Don't do it.


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[Assistant] Or compute in some way. You know, electronics. Sometimes I, I get, I get angry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like my wife will hear me once every six months, you know, and she'll come in and she'll be like printer and oh yeah, she says you're stupid. I go, I know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She goes, it doesn't care if you yell at it. Yeah, I know.


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[Assistant] This is a big question. And this, for those of you that do Jujitsu out there in the world, this is like when someone says, hey, hey Jaco, how do I pass your guard?


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[Assistant] Because I have a good guard. And so, you know, someone that is, uh, a blue belch will say,


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[Assistant] You know, hey, how do I pass your guard? You know, and they, and, and literally, I have guys at the gym that are,


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[Assistant] Brown belts and black belts that pass my guard once every six months, you know? So my guard is good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, here's a blue belt, like, hey, how do I pass your guard? So this, this question kinda reminds me of that a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, specific lifting workout and weekly training schedule on jiu jitsu. So this is a, this is a big ask. And here's the problem that I have with this. I'm an individual and I have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Strength and weaknesses, I have whatever little.


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[Assistant] Injury thing that I'm working through at a particular time. I have things that I like to do and I have things that I don't like to do. I have, I'm an individual and my workout is for me.


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[Assistant] And, and I've taken, and I've, you know, sometimes people, I'll go on a trip, and there'll be a guy that's an athlete, and he'll say, oh, you know, I wanna, I wanna go through one of your workouts with you. And I say, okay. And I've done that, and, and I've had guys,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like almost hospitalized from going through one of my workouts.


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[Assistant] That's not good. And then I've had other guys, like there's guys out there that will just crush me in a workout, you know? And especially, you know, there's workouts that I have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That I could beat most of the world in, you know? There's workouts that I have that I could crush anybody in. And then there's workouts that some, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yoga instructor could put me through that would crush me, right? So my point is that you get some people that, that would die doing one of my workouts and you get some people that would it be my one of my workouts is no impact because they're an incredible athlete.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so why would either one of them want to do my workout? It doesn't make any sense that they would want to do that. So,


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[Assistant] What I've been trying to think, cause I get asked all the time, you know, what's your workout? What's your workout? What's your workout?


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[Assistant] And I actually put this out on Twitter, I was like, oh yea, I'll do an ebook. And people were like, ebook, ebook, yea, do it, do it. So it's an idea that's already been floated out there. Unfortunately there's not been a lot of time to be writing ebooks. But what the focus would be,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would be yeaah, like the types of exercise that I do, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know, kind of the numbers that I do of them. But more importantly, going from a leadership perspective is, what is the intent? What is the commander's intent of my workout? What am I trying to accomplish? Because,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For you and me to accomplish the same thing is going to be a different, a very different workout, right? If, if I want to, if I want to take myself to a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To, to an anaerobic threshold for a total of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 15 minutes. What I would do to get there is very different from what you would do to get there. It just, it just is. If I wanted to destroy my legs with heavy squats, it would be very different between what you would do and what I would do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what's important is, is not the actual exercises that I'm doing, it's the intent and am I achieving that intent? Am I achieving that intent? Like, I can do


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, no, I can't do 300 pull ups in a row now. I wish I could. But...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But my intent is to, you know, do a number of maximum sets of pull ups. And then do a number of slow, you know, very good form.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maximum sets. And the intent is to get stronger at pull ups by doing, you know, a high number of maximum sets. And I think that intent,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To give to people would say, okay, so that way if Echo's not good at pull ups and you go, okay, well I'm gonna go in and I know what the intent is. I'm trying to get to a point of failure even on one single pull up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it might take you only 15 minutes to do that and 30 pull ups, you know, or whatever the case may be. And for someone that's really good, a rock climber, it might take them, you know, 45 minutes and they might be 600 pull ups deep before they get there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so that's kind of the idea I'm batting around. I don't know if people are that really interested in that. I think a lot of times people want a formula.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I don't think I'm gonna give out a formula because the formula is gonna be different for different people at different times in their lives and ages and body weights and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, male or female, there's just all so many variables.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I think if I can give out what the intent of my workouts are, then we're in the right place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I would love to tell you that I'm some, you know, physical specimen, but I'm not. I'm actually not the strongest guy. I'm not the fastest guy. I'm not the most flexible guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My physical aptitude is like a...


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[Assistant] I'm not bright blue because those two things, you know, the strength has been mixed with endurance, has been mixed with flexibility, has been mixed with all these things have been mixed together and I don't want to get


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Too much of any of them. Yeah. Because then I'm losing something else. And so, so I'm kind of this, this, this kind of average in many categories and, and my numbers in very few of them would impress anybody.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and, and, and, and, you know, like, but I'm not one of those people that's on the mat that you go, man, that guy is just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Freakin' strong, you know? Well, at least, it's hard for me to judge, but I know that, uh, I guess people say, oh, you're strong. Yeah, sometimes I think that. Okay.


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[Assistant] But like anybody that's listening to this podcast can beat me in a bunch of categories.


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[Assistant] And I don't. I don't have any tenses in anything.


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[Assistant] In life and in leadership and in your personality.


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[Assistant] It has to be balanced. Aggression has to be balanced. And you know, one of the, one of the things from, from the book is, you know, you gotta be aggressive, but not overbearing. So yeah, you gotta be aggressive to be a leader. You've gotta be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because if you're gonna make things happen, you've gotta be aggressive to make things happen. You have to make things happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I always say to people like, oh, they want to make money. I'm like, oh, you, you just have to make money. You have to take, you have to take that money. It doesn't, it's not going to fall into your house, into your lap. It's not going to make itself. You have to take it if that's what your goal is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In jiu-jitsu, you're not going to get better just by being. You have to take the progression. You have to take it and make it happen. And that's the same thing with anything in life. So aggression definitely comes into play.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For instance, in a leadership position, if you're completely aggressive all the time, your subordinates will not want to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what they're going to expect. So you can't be overbearing. You know, on the mat, you can't exhaust yourself with aggression. And that's one of the things you know that I think from


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hmm, purple to brown belt, which is, you know, your, your...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Six to eight years in the game is where people start to calm down and realize that that aggression needs to be tampered and controlled and people have to relax, uhm, and in combat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Obviously being aggressive and being agressively decisive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is important, but if you go too far with that, you're running to your death.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you have to modulate your aggression. You have to modulate your aggression. You can't abuse it. You gotta use it, but you can't abuse it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I don't wanna discount aggression in any way.


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[Assistant] Because, you know, I always say that your default mode should be aggression. Like when you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you hit the reset button on your brain, you should come out of that reset being aggressive. Because that, that, be, be aggressive, be proactive, make things happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be on offense, you know, not sitting back and waiting to be attacked or waiting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For a situation to occur. No, make that situation occur. Go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, that's my view of aggression, and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it just has to be balanced. And there's, there are some times where, you know, if you meet aggression with aggression, it's actually not good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you, you see this in jujitsu, you see this in escalating in, when you're either in a confrontation of some kind with somebody.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Aggressively escalating something might be a good choice and might be a bad choice. You know, there's always the bully that as soon as you, you say, hey, you know what? I'd love to fight. In fact, fighting is my favorite thing to do. Let's go. A guy that's like, no man, I was, I was just kidding. So aggression will win there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, or, you know, if someone's really being aggressive and you just knock them out, well then that's, that's a better handling of the situation. But there's also times where there's, you know, maybe there's multiple attackers or there's someone that's, you know, you're in the street.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's always better in the street to avoid the confrontation. You know, does that person have a knife? Does that person have a gun? Does that person have a communicable disease? Does that person have friends around the corner? Is that person a lawyer who's gonna sue you? I mean, there's all these reasons to get into, to not get into a fight in the street. So, so aggressively,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, in combat sports, boxing and doing jujitsu, the more likely you are to be able to be like, you know what? I don't need to prove anything to this guy. It means nothing to me. I prove myself on the mat every single day. I got nothing to prove to Joe, drunk idiot over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I think that again, I think your default mode should be aggressive, but make sure that you maintain enough detachment of the situation that you can see if you're being overly aggressive and it's leading you to a bad scenario.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, when people think of the word mind control, they think of controlling other people's minds. And when I think about mind control, I think about controlling your own mind because you know, while


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I am obviously a physical person and we spend a lot of this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Podcast tonight talking about physical culture and I embrace physicality, but we are our minds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm not going to be, you know, going into a Sam Harris philosophical rant on what it means and where the you actually is and whether there's a soul or a brain or whatever, your heart or some other conjured up place. This is what I know is that you, your mind,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The thing that is listening and comprehending these words right now, that is you. And that thing, that mind you can control. You, you are the machine and you can control the machine. And people ask me, how do I get tougher?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be tougher. They asked me, how can I wake up earlier in the morning? The answer is wake up earlier in the morning. How can I work out consistently every single day? Work out consistently every single day. How can I stop from eating sugar?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How can I stop missing that girl or that guy, whoever broke up with me? How can I stop missing them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is mind control. You have that ability. You just have to assert it. You have to decide that you're going to be in control.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that you are going to do what you want to do.


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[Assistant] That you're feeling weak, or you're feeling lazy, or you're feeling soft, or you're feeling emotional. Tell them that they don't get a vote.


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[Assistant] Tell them you are declaring martial law on your mind. You're declaring mind control and impose what you want on your brain. Impose the discipline and the power and the positivity and the will.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And use that mind control to move your life where you want it to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know, if you're out there and you want to communicate with us, you want to carry on this conversation, you want to continue down this path.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm at Jocko Willink and Echo is at Echo Charles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want to thank everyone for listening. I want to thank you for subscribing to this podcast, for placing reviews on this podcast, for spreading the word about this podcast. And most of all, I want to thank you for getting after it. This is Jaco and Echo and until next time, out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't ever remember wanting to do anything else. And, uh, that's something I've heard you say, uh, you know, that you, that you wanted to go be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I felt growing up, I grew up in the Piney Woods of Southeast Texas in a rural small town and, uh, we're, we're.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] High school football is everything. It's just a few thousand people in the town. You get at least that or more at the games or the Friday night lights every Friday. Uhm, and I ran around the woods.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Played army and, uh, I wanted to be a combat leader. That's what I wanted to do. And I played in sandbox, my GI Joe figures, my little plastic army men. And that's just kind of what I wanted to do. And then when I was, when I was probably in, I was probably in about junior high school and, uh, I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just kind of figuring out, I hear about the Green Berets. I had a cousin that was a Green Beret, highly decorated Silver Star recipient from, from Vietnam.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, he was, uh, kind of a mentor to my dad growing up and, and, uh, so I heard a little bit about, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About some of those, uh, you know, the snake eaters and started reading some books and I sort of learned about the SEAL teams and, uh, I, uh, I remember distinctly a little movie coming out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In, uh, I think it was 1990, a little movie called Navy Seals.


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[Assistant] No doubt, he definitely would have been, it would have been better for him, no doubt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, that really was something that kind of, uh, propelled me, like, what is this? What is this organization? I started reading about it, started learning about it, reading a lot of books about SEALs in Vietnam, and, uh, decided that, uh, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a SEAL. So I went to the Naval Academy to pursue that dream, and I, uh, I, I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I knew that's what I wanted to do. I turned down an appointment to West Point because I wanted to go Navy. I wanted to be a SEAL. And lo and behold, as I graduated from the Naval Care, I came up with a service selection night before our graduation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did not get selected for the SEAL teams and that was crushing. It was a soul crushing event for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To think that, uh, I was gonna go out in the service fleet. I wasn't gonna be a SEAL. I was gonna go be on a ship, uh, be a service warfare officer and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yet it took me three years and I continue to pursue that and persevere through a lot of challenges.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, through a lot of luck and a lot of hard work, the doors were open for me to, to be able to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, to get a bill to go and I had some outstanding mentors that looked out for me and opened some doors for me to make that happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and then I was able to go and, uh, go to Bud's, our seal training. Uh, and when I was there, I think looking back on that time in the, in the, in the surface fleet was, was awesome for me because I, uh, it allowed me to gain immense responsibility and maturity that I probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, when other folks were whining about how tough training was, I was just excited and fired up to be there just for the opportunity to do that. And so for me,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, then I went and served at a SEAL, SEAL team as a, uh, assistant platoon commander. And certainly the highlight of my, of my time in the teams was working a task in a bruiser. And, uh, you know, I felt like that's where, uh, had I not had that experience, um, which I almost didn't get by the way. I mean, that was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wanted to stay at, uh, I was, I was at SEAL Team 5 and I wanted to stay at SEAL Team 5 with the guys that I loved and trained with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, my commanding officer at the time said, no, you're senior. We're going to rotate you to SEAL Team 3. You're going to deploy six months ahead. I was furious about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was going over there and lo and behold, I get over and get to work for Jaco.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And tasking at Rooser and with an amazing crew of guys from Charlotte-Batoon that was, uh, uh, and it just wouldn't have been the same otherwise. And I still love the boys from team five, of course, but, uh, but it was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was just a phenomenal experience to be able to have that. And you taught me to be the combat leader I needed to be through, uh, through a workup cycle. Prepared me and then unleashed me and Charlie Bethune on the battlefield to get after it in a way that was phenomenal. Were we able to have a historic deployment that made an impact?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And saved a lot of lives and did tremendous damage to the enemy. And we came back from that from lessons learned, provided tons of lessons learned and taught SEAL leaders for the next generation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and uh, that to me was such an incredibly rewarding experience. And I think someone that, that built...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our company now, Echelon Front, and what we're doing, uh, and the ideas that have become the book Extreme Ownership.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I was teaching that leadership training and you were running training for the West Coast teams, providing those lessons learned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, to teach guys to be ready for those most difficult combat situations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was proud to train those guys and see the next generation of SEAL leaders go out onto the battlefield and accomplish some extraordinary stuff and re-prove the principles that we learned and re-validate them in different environments. And that was incredibly rewarding for me and I think really shaped


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I decided to get out, you know, a few years ago after you'd retired and really shaped what we've, what this has become and it's still rewarding to work with leaders in all aspects of businesses across industries and see, see them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See the light bulb come off in their head and watch them just go get after it and lead and win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you have to get a billet to go. We call it billets. What does that mean? That means that you have a slot. You get a slot. Here's an opportunity. And you know, for us, like coming out of the naval camp, we had 16 seal billets. So 16 people got to go. We had a prior enlisted seal in my class. Only 15 guys were getting to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably had 200 people that wanted to go be a CEO and you go through a screening process and after that you maybe have 60 or 80 people that are eligible to go and only 15 of those are going to get selected. I was not one of those 15.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, so you get out of the different commissioning sources, they've got a certain number of billets aside. So, and then you, uh, it's,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The other thing, they also based it on PT scores as well. So physical training scores. You go through the seal fitness test. And so, I mean, I'm going up against guys that are collegiate swimmers, you know, cross country runners.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, so I could pass the test to go, but you gotta go way above and beyond that to even be competitive. So that's kinda where, uh, you know, where it was difficult. The other issue I had was that, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I marched a lot of tours and I had a lot of demerits and, uh, when I had some upperclassmen who.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Told me to do something I didn't like a couple times. I told him what I thought about it. And that didn't work out too good for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For sure, uh, I'd be happy to talk about that. And, uh, it's funny cause people want to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People tell Chris Kyle stores, you know, and, uh, he's, he, he really is the legend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, that was his nickname was the legend. It was given to him in his platoon, the previous platoon before we worked together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and I remember I met Chris at that time because I was with SEAL Team 5 and I deployed at the same time under the aegis of SEAL Team 3.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so we were there and I remember meeting him and the talk. He'd just come back from Fallujah and doing some great sniper work there and, and, uh, working with a bunch of our mutual friends and, and, uh, and so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His platoon was in the Pacific theater at the time and he got a chance to go forward and be one of the few guys, uh, from the guys that were going to the Pacific that were selected to go to Iraq and actually be in the fight. And so guys were pissed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, some, some local national forces had to shoot, you know, rounds on paper and Chris was over there shooting bad guys in Iraq. And so, uh, so they met, they made this nickname the legend for, which was, uh, and it was very much ingest. And so it's, uh, it's funny that as he's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, as you continue to go on and do these great things and now he's just this incredible larger life figure. He really is the legend and it's really, so when I hear stories or watch movies or hear people talk about it in a way, it's,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, it's not the Chris Kyle that we knew. It's a diff, you know, it's a superhuman. It's a, it's like a comic book hero. And look, the reality is, I think, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, having worked really closely with Chris and he was our, he was our lead sniper and point man, just so people understand that. And Charlie Batoon, I was the platoon commander for Charlie Batoon, which meant that, uh, on every patrol that we went on, he was walking about eight or 10 feet in front of me and, uh, and, and that we, we,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and, and what areas we wanted to take down, what buildings we wanted to utilize, uh, and he was, he was a guy that really drove a lot of, a lot of our operations. And, and, uh, and so I knew Chris well, he was, he was one of the, uh, the three, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Guys with, we had three guys that were on their third platoon and, and, and we called them the triumvirate and these two other guys still active duty. I can't name their outstanding guys, but these guys have been together for three platoons, three rotations, uh, three, three deployments to the middle East, uh, to Iraq.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, and so we call them the triumphant, you know, which is the triumphant is a.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Turn from, from the Roman era where you had a group of three people who share a position of power and authority and these guys really drove


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, they really, they brought up the new guys, they trained new guys and, uh, and, and got our platoon really where they needed to be. We're kind of the heart and soul of the platoon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Crest was, you know, the real Crest that we knew and worked with, uh, was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hilarious, number one. And you know, that doesn't come across when you, when you, uh, to a lot of people that he was a guy who's just funny as hell. Always could crack a joke.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, uh, but he was a guy that, uh, you know, I think it almost does him a disservice to paint him in a way that was this superhuman because the reason he was so successful at what he, what he did is that he, he worked really hard at that and was very focused on it, uh, to really perfect his craft and, and he,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had to run up through, uh, approvals to the chain of command, uh, for, for certain types of operations, but, uh, Jaco is our tasking commander, uh, approved our, our reconnaissance patrols and, and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so we'd say, Hey, Jack, we want to do this. And he'd be like, great. So we'd go, we'd go out and we patrol through some really bad areas and we'd hit like.


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[Assistant] A dozen different buildings, go in buildings here, check out observation points there, see what kind of, uh, you know, roads we could see and access that we could see. So we, we figure out what gave us the best advantage and then Chris would figure out where he wanted to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, and he'd put himself in that position. And so he'd get, I'm looking down this window, I'm looking through this loophole in the, in the roof wall. And, uh, and, you know, he'd,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How we made the, that's how we made the, uh,


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[Assistant] Uh, that's how we were so successful and that's how we were able to, to, to prevent attacks on enemy forces and, or on, on, uh, enemy attacks on friendly forces rather.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, he knew after the sun came up, first call of prayer goes down in the kind of early dawn, pre-dawn hours. And then the sun comes up and the city comes alive and enemy fighters are moving around.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, he'd be on the, on the weapon when he knew that was looking down his sniper scope, uh, when he knew it was, uh, it was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was the highest in the early morning, you know, as the morning comes around, you know, that eight to 10 o'clock, uh, hour that that's when we knew we were going to get contacted and you know, late afternoon was kind of the same thing. He'd be on his gun. And of course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He had to rotate out at some point. It's only humanly possible to stay on your gun for so long. But, uh, when he was on his gun, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He looked down the scope of his weapon. I mean, he was very disappointed about that. And I remember hearing some other guys being like, oh man, you know, I only have, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I only have 8 or 10 kills and Chris, you know, how's he got 85 now? You know, some, some, you know, so at some point through into our deployment, uh, before it was completed and you know, the reality is you see some of those guys were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we had seven other snipers in our platoon and they did a lot of great work and they did, they, they had some impact and certainly did, did great stuff. But a couple of those guys I'd see that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, they're not seeing anything or they haven't fired any shots. The next thing you know, they're kind of having a conversation with their buddy next to them. Next thing you know, they're sitting back from their.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're rifle, next thing you know they're just kinda looking through binos.


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[Assistant] And I remember watching Chris and just, he's just looking through his scope for two straight hours and without coming off of it. And it was, you know, that was, uh, that enabled him to be successful and, uh, that discipline really paid off and certainly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Certainly he was able to rack up the damage to enemy fighters.


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[Assistant] We went in on boats and we snuck into...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we snuck da- this is something Chris wrote about in American Sniper.


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[Assistant] We, we went out on the Marine Corps boat unit that was there was a great group of guys. They were awesome guys. And, uh, they, they,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, we were able to take advantage of that smoke who smoke a guy or two on the way in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, and then move in and take down the buildings, uh, that were gonna be this combat outpost as the army.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, they, they were following this giant mine clearance element coming down the roads, digging IDs out. Jocko was riding in in a Bradley fighting vehicle, uh, braving the, uh, the, some of the most dangerous roads in the world at the time, you know, coming in with the, uh, the army battalion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, staff there and as our command and control. And so we were already in, we'd been there for, I don't know, three or four hours at that point, maybe, maybe longer. And so we shot a couple of guys and we're, you know, we're a couple of enemy fighters and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, we still had guys in security positions, certainly, and guys on guns, but at that point it was...


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[Assistant] The IED clearance team was like right underneath us. I remember actually looking over the side of the building and seeing this giant buffalo, this huge, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Truck. Armored vehicle with an arm on it digging out of the street.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I know you were in a vehicle kinda coming in just behind that, a few vehicles up the road. You were maybe a few blocks away at that point. And I'm looking down, I'm like, uh, that's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, uh, in particular, the army, uh, operations officer for the battalion was a great guy and the battalion was awesome. This was task force bandit, a bunch of tankers, great guys. We love them. They came in and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he comes up there and he's expecting just bristling weapons everywhere and all seals on their guns.


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[Assistant] And I'm looking over as the major standing there and kind of looking around and there's a couple guys on their guns and there's some guys on machine guns and people watching the stairs. Security was definitely set. Security was set, of course. But, I'm looking over and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was, uh, he just kind of had a good sense about things because we were arguing over a building. I was standing on the rooftop and I was like, okay, there's a building, there's a big building to the south that would give us a good vantage point. Let's move down. What do you think about that building over there? I'm talking over with him and with our platoon chief, Tony.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he was pulling a four story. And, uh, I was like, I don't know, man, that building in the south looks pretty good. He's like, I think this building in the east is where we want to go. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We talked about it for a little bit and I was like, okay, roger that, let's go to the east. So we moved, we moved about 350 yards down the street, uh, to this big four story apartment building. And it was, it was absolutely the right call. I mean, have we not done that? We would have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, cause it was, I think we had, what do we have, like 22 enemy confirmed kill from that over the next 40 hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About a couple dozen, uh, you know, probable kills. So it was, it was, it was at a great advantage point and we were looking right down a long access road that was able to prevent


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the reality was a gigantic explosion goes off and we were 350 yards away. Frag was raining down. Fragmentation from that explosion was raining down on us from 350 yards away. So it was massive.


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[Assistant] 120 millimeter mortars coming in, you know, unfortunately killed a soldier wounded a couple of others. And, uh, and that very, I mean, within about half an hour of that Chris, most of the two guys, uh, out of like four that were loading a mortar tube in the back of a truck. So it, and when, when.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's, that's who Chris was. And that's, that's the impact that he had. And he had a good sense about what, what, where to go and what to do. And he was excellent at it. And he was just, it was just awesome to work with him. He was so much fun to be around and, uh, always quick with a joke. And, uh, and that's the, that's the real Chris Scott we knew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That very same day we were calling QRF and I know you were, you were trying to move vehicles out of the way so we could get the tanks out there to our guys that were pinned down and needed help. And those tankers came out every time. Those soldiers were amazing.


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[Assistant] In Ramadi, in downtown Ramadi in 2006.


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[Assistant] This was, this was like, Stalingrad. I mean, it was just rubble-piled buildings, just, we, we had, this was Al-Qaeda and Iraq battle space. I mean, this is the precursor to ISIS, and it's the same people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they, there were several thousand of these guys that controlled the city. And, uh, it was, it was just a nasty place. So we didn't go out in these little two and four man teams. It was, we were going in with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 15, 20, 25, 30 guys, you know, sometimes we had as many as 40 guys who were plused up with army and marines that went in with us. And we always had Iraqi soldiers, but we didn't count them as part of our, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As part of our, these are the guys gonna help bail us out if things go down. So we had to have a big enough element that could get, prevent us from being overrun. And you know, if Chris were here today, I think he'd tell you, man, it's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the only reason he was able to do what he could was because there was a huge team of guys supporting him. The guys carrying the machine guns in that were helping beating back attacks. And guess what? When you're attacked by machine guns and rockets from RPGs and you got a dozen enemy fighters maneuvering on you, you're not breaking contact with a bolt action.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly. You've got to have those machine gunners that are going to beat back those attacks and that's what those guys did. So, you know, without, uh, without that whole team and we, we, we were carrying our own shoulder fired rockets. Our, our leading petty officer was always a guy that would carry that, carry that big heavy, uh, 84 millimeter recoilless rifle over his shoulder, this big bazooka looking thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, the heavy rounds for that. And it was, it was, uh, we had to have that kind of firepower with us. So that was critical, uh, for all that we did. But most of the shots, uh, were pretty close. I mean, you're talking urban combat is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there wasn't a lot of real long range shooting. I mean, every once in a while, they, I think, I think Chris and Tony hit a couple guys from 1500 yards or so out in a rural area. So I wasn't on that particular operation, but, uh, but there was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But most of the stuff in the urban environment of downtown, I mean, we, we hit guys from as close as...


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[Assistant] Uh, I remember a couple of times where, uh, one time in particular me and Mark Lee and Chris were sitting in a room and we look over and there's some guys like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're like 25 yards from us, like, like, you know, maybe 30 yards from us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think Chris ditched his sniper rifle, grabbed his M4 and shot those guys through the window. Uhm, and then, you know, some of those shots are making a lot of, I think the average was, I would say probably


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anywhere from 100 to 300, 300 yards, something like that probably.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there's, there's a lot of profanity going back and forth and, uh, but it's, you know, some of the stuff was hand grenade range, definitely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another example of big culture warriors who just don't get it. They don't understand it. Those local people were praying for us to go kill them. To go kill the bad guys and free them from this evil terrorist organization that is imposing this horrific


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, just brutal rain of terror on them. And so, I mean, it's exactly the same thing you see ISIS doing today. And we saw that over and over again in the city where you, you know, you go into a house and there's a family there and they're trying to just not to get killed in the crossfire and, uh, and they want your help and they're happy you're there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, to that point, we get asked all the time, like, you know, tell us about American Sniper. Was that accurate? And, you know, I think, I think it's important to say that, uh, first of all, I'm, I'm very glad that Chris Kyle's story's out there. And I think that, uh, to get people to recognize what Chris did and, and, you know, the impact that he had and the fact that, uh, his,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His story is representative of so many hundreds of thousands of US soldiers and marines and sailors and airmen that have deployed multiple times what their families go through, uh, and I think that's a great thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but it's, it is a Hollywood movie. And, uh, and so, you know, the, the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In particular that depiction of Mark, that's what disturbed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those of us that served closely with Chris and closely with Mark were most disturbed by that. And it was just the way that Mark was portrayed. You know, Hollywood has...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They hate the Iraq war, so they've got to, they gotta have someone in there that doesn't like the Iraq war. And so they, they try, they, they portrayed Mark in a way that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is just utter and complete horseshit. I mean, there's no, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mark Lee believed in that mission. I mean, he was, he was, uh, an extraordinary warrior and, uh, you know, other, when other people were out to kill bad guys and try to, you know, do a bunch of operations. I mean, Mark truly believed we were there to help the Iraqi people. We need to free these people from this brutal reign of terror. And I think he had a, he had strategic insight that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not even sure I had. I mean, I read back like Mark's last letter home, and he talks about being involved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Seeing that, you know, the enemy that we're fighting here, this type of jihadi, you know, this jihadism with this strain of Islam that exports jihad across the world and wants to go out and terrorize and brutalize people like this is a great struggle. This is going to be a generational struggle. This is going to go on for a long time. It certainly transcends Iraq.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He really seemed to sense that in a way that was pretty phenomenal.


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[Assistant] It was, it was just so opposite of the real Mark. I mean, there's the brooding guy and they had him as this kind of like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pencil neck kind of geek, you know, is to quote Patton.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, couldn't fight his way out of a piss soaked paper bag. I mean, Mark was a badass guy. He had massive arms. He carried his big heavy Mark 48 machine gun that weighs like 25, 27 pounds fully loaded with all the gadgets on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, with no sling. He carried his shoulder like it was a little M4 rifle. Uh, you know, that weighs seven pounds. I mean, er, you know, with all it's, it's gadgetry. He's, he was a, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just an awesome warrior and, and yeah, that side of him that was just hilarious. It was so many stories of him cracking jokes and just keeping everybody laughing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was absolutely in love with his wife, Maya, who's in that, uh, in Lift-A-Tel. And, uh, he, she had given him this, these, uh, I mean, these, these little pajama pants. I mean, this is like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember in particular, he was a strong Christian guy. Definitely, uh, uh, he had gone to seminary for about a year or so, I think, you know, to study, to be a preacher and decided


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know what, instead of being a preacher, I want to be in the seal things, but his Christian faith was certainly always a big, big piece of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't even remember how it came up, but if you remember the old 1980s song, The Warrior.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is like cheeseball, 1980s.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and, and we got in an argument about who sang the warrior. And Mark was like, it's Pat Benatar. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On my iTunes and, and uhm, and so we argued about, we had some wager, I don't even know what the wager was, but it was, uh, in fact, Patti Smith, that was right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And just to, to help, help everybody understand, like we're rolling out on an operation into some of the most dangerous enemy territory anywhere. And people would come out with Jaco.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And shake, shake folks hands, because you knew that.


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[Assistant] It could very easily happen that not everybody's coming back from that op. And, uh, you always, it was always reassuring to see Jaco out there talking to people, shaking people's hands and that was, uh, and we're going out, particularly on an operation like that where, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] IEDs are causing catastrophic damage and killing soldiers and marines every single day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was a phenomenal guy, absolutely. And just, uh, an honor, an honor to serve with men like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he was, uh, he was a phenomenal guy. And, uh, I actually, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some people talk to me, people have said to me before, you know, hey, who's the greatest person you've ever met? I've met some phenomenal people in my life, you know, and uh, I uh, I think my immediate reaction to that is Ryan Job. Ryan Job's the greatest person I've ever met. I mean, he just was, he was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was actually, what's crazy is when I, when I first met Ryan, you know, when he joined our platoon, he got the nickname Biggles because he didn't exactly have the rippling six pack. Uh, he was just a tough as nails guy that just would not quit no matter what was determined to be a seal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But struggle with the runs, struggle with the swims, and got the, what we call the full benefit in our seal training of butts, which is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The deserts of Southern California and got what we call land warfare training on. And that was, uh, that's really man camp.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what, you know, we talk about seal training and people think it's all about carrying logs around and boats and all that stuff that you see from.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's really just our initial screening process, what we call BUDs, basic on our demolition seal training. Going out and working together in a workup is really where.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the training to be a seal, to be a teammate, to work as a, as a unit happens. And so our whole task unit from Jaco all the way down to our lowest common denominator.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we went out to, we went out to Southern California deserts and just, and, and we shot weapons. We learned how to shoot, move, and communicate. And it is, everything is difficult. It is, you're going, you're dragging down men, you know, who are, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Killed in, in for training purposes over rocks and through cactus and you're running and gunning and it's hot and it's tiring and exhausting and it's awesome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, it's the training where same training that's kept seals alive on the battlefield and enabled us to do things for, for a long time. Uh, and, and seals have been training there since Vietnam and that particular place where we, we go and train there. And, um, it's awesome. I love, love it out there. And when, uh, when Biggles got out there, he was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was struggling. He was coming off of about, I'd say 30 to 45 days of leave and easy living. He was, and he'd gone, you know, after buds where he'd had to make it through training. He had to be in shape. And now,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, one of the things some people struggle with when they get done with that training is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now it's up to them. Now it's up to them to be in shape. Self-discipline. And some people have that self-discipline.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And some people don't. And uh, I certainly wasn't in peak physical condition after that. I struggle with that. Uh, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Biggles took that to a new level. And uh, you know, when he came out there, all of a sudden we're handing him a 25 pound Mark 48 machine gun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which he named Pickles as Jaco said, and, uh, and he's got to carry this thing and carry the six to 800 rounds on him, uh, and move through the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he was struggling. He was struggling, anyone, even in the greatest of shape, that's challenging. Uh, but Ryan was really struggling to keep up on that. And so, uh, I remember having some very, he was in my squad and so I was witnessing this, I was watching this and we pulled them aside and said, Hey, listen, if you want to be here,


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[Assistant] You better harden up. You gotta harden up. The standard is here.


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[Assistant] You know, the standard is way up here and you're here. You're way lower than that standard. So uhm, we had to, we had to push him to get there. And I remember some stern counseling, uh, sessions. We assigned one of the guys from the, the triumvirate I mentioned before. It was one of the guys on his third platoon. Great dude. Our most experienced machine gunner and, uh,


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[Assistant] We assigned, uh, we assigned him to, to be a mentor to, to, uh, to Biggles and train with him. And so every morning we would.


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[Assistant] PT work, go for runs. So when other guys were resting.


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[Assistant] Ryan's got, he's got to go out for a run. He's cranking out pull ups. He's, he's training and working and you know, it was, I didn't know how it was going to go then. Uh, he had a long way to go to get to where he needed to be to be physically able to keep up and not track down the rest of the guys. And I don't think I've ever seen a guy.


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[Assistant] I am going to turn this around completely. And he became what we called...


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[Assistant] You know, six months, eight months after that, uh, that, uh, workup. He was born again hard. He was born again hard and he, he was a, he,


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[Assistant] Never fell behind anything. He always kept up with everybody and carried not only his way, but sometimes others who were struggling and, uh, and he would help them through it.


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[Assistant] It was, uh, it was funny, uh, a couple of stories about him. We were at an island. He's in the weight room.


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[Assistant] And, you know, one of the things about Buds, you're doing pull-ups and, you know, I know Jaco on his Twitter feed always has the pictures of like, uh,


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[Assistant] Ripped off calluses from doing pull ups or deadlifts, you know, with a barbell.


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[Assistant] And that's just part of Buds. I mean, you tear up your hands on the ropes and all the old course and everything you're doing. And, uh, and so we're in the gym out at our land warfare training facility and he's got these like the fingerless, like,


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[Assistant] No, you need to harden your hands up, man. No gloves. And he was, he was like, Roger that, no gloves. And he took that to such an extreme.


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[Assistant] On our operations, we always wear gloves on operations because you're having to smash through a window or-


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[Assistant] And, uh, in, I remember on patrol in Iraq, looking at me, he's like, no gloves on. He took that to such an extreme. He was like, I am going to be a hard dude and I'm going to roll out with, uh, with no gloves. I want to carry this machine. And I was like, Hey man, where are your gloves? Then I'm like, Hey, where are your gloves? I'm good. I'm good. And I don't know if it was- Not smart.


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[Assistant] Not smart, but uh, but hard. But tough. And he was unbelievably tough. And you know, after Ryan got wounded.


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[Assistant] And people that know the story of Ryan, he got hit in the face with an enemy sniper round on the same day that Mark Lee was killed, August 2nd, 2006.


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[Assistant] We thought he was, we thought he was a dead man. You know, when, when, uh, when he got hit, um, the wound just looked so horrific. I just didn't think anybody could survive that. And, uh, and yet he did. And I went over to grab his hand and said, Hey man, we're going to get you out of here hanging there.


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[Assistant] And he like sat up and told me he was okay. I was like, it was unbelievable to see that. I mean, just how tough that guy was. And, and, uh, you know, after that, um, we were waiting for about three weeks to see he'd lost his right eye.


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[Assistant] Where he got hit and we realized later that the only reason he didn't get killed is because


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[Assistant] He was disciplined and he was on that machine. We were, we were two hours into an operation. It was a brutally hot day, you know, probably hitting 117 degree high in Ramadi.


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[Assistant] And, uh, and he was on his weapon, looking down the sights, and the round that was aimed for his head had hit his weapon.


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[Assistant] Hit the receiver on that machine gun and deflected.


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[Assistant] Uh, kind of back toward the right side of his face rather than taking his head off. And, and, and that's what saved his life, that discipline. Uh, but tragically,


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[Assistant] Uh, not only did he lose his right eye, but the shrapnel from that severed...


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[Assistant] The optic nerve to his left eye and he was left blind, completely blind from that. And it was devastating when I got the news from that. And yet when I talked to him on the phone.