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[Assistant] Black swans are leverage multipliers. Remember the three types of leverage and you go over these in the book. Positive, which is the ability to give someone what they want. Negative, the ability to hurt someone. And normative, using your counterparts norms to bring them around.


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[Assistant] Again, there's more detail on the book, inside the book. Work to understand the other side's religion, which you just mentioned. Everybody's got a religion.


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[Assistant] Digging into worldviews inherently implies moving beyond negotiation table and into life, emotional and otherwise, of your counterpart. That's where black, black swans live.


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[Assistant] Review everything you hear from your counterpart. You will not hear everything the first time, so double check. Compare notes with team members. Use backup listeners.


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[Assistant] Exploit the similarity principle. People are more apt to concede to someone when they share a culture, someone they share a cultural similarity with. So dig for what makes them tick and show that you share common ground.


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[Assistant] Faced with this situation, search for constraints, hidden desires and bad information.


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[Assistant] Ten minutes of FaceTime often reveals more than days of research. Pay special attention to your counterparts verbal and non-verbal communication at unguarded moments.


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[Assistant] Awesome points that apply to me, they apply to business, they apply to interacting with any human. Obviously they apply to negotiations. But uhm, there you go. I mean we hit the, the wave tops of some of the last, I mean I probably read less than 5% of this book. Uh, so many


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[Assistant] Lot of the stories themselves, uh, but get the book.


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[Assistant] So what are you up to right now? What do we got? We got the Black Swan Group, right?


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[Assistant] I always tell people with uh, with leadership, it's not an inoculation. You don't just get like a shot and now you're good, now you get it.


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[Assistant] You don't go to the gym one time and now you're in shape. You don't pick up a guitar, get taught, and now you know how to play it. It's the same thing with the go. You're not going to say, Oh, I read the book and now I'm good to go. No, you actually need to train it. You need to get coached on it. That's why


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[Assistant] That's why you gotta do that follow up. So that's awesome. And we, we do the same thing at our company. I mean, most of the companies that we work with, we do long-term engagements with them. Uh, black swan LTD.com. That's where, that's where people, if they want coaching, if they want to get, uh,


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[Assistant] Deeper on this stuff, you're also on social media. You got on Facebook and Instagram, you're at BlackSwanLTD. You're on Twitter, at BlackSwanGRP. You personally aren't on Instagram. Big social media guy over here.


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[Assistant] At the FBI negotiator. So did I get all those things right? Is there anything else we need to know about?


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[Assistant] Yeah, and everybody that's listening, just beat the king of negotiation because you're getting the stuff for free. So just get in there and get it, take it from them, otherwise you don't win.


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[Assistant] Right? You wanna get one up on the FBI negotiator, you gotta go, hey, I got this from the, I got this from the master of negotiation, I got it for free. That's how good you are. So get in there and sign up for that. Uh, that seems, so that gets us up to present day? Yeah, pretty much.


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[Assistant] This thing goes deep, man. Well, plus just like, uh, building a relationship with people the more you tell them things that's really gonna happen.


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[Assistant] Thank you. That's cool, I appreciate that. What year did the book come out? 2016. Damn, been out for a while, awesome. Uh, Chris, any closing thoughts from you? No.


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[Assistant] Thank you. Appreciate it. And uh, thanks for coming on. Thanks for coming down here and thanks for sharing your experiences and all these lessons learned with everybody. I mean, it's just awesome that people can pick up this book and learn what you've learned over the decades of work you put into this. And of course, more important,


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[Assistant] Uh, thanks for your service. Thanks for your service in law enforcement and the FBI. Thanks for fighting terrorists and kidnappers and


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[Assistant] What was your, uh, big takeaway besides the fact that you're an accommodator?


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[Assistant] It really was cool to read the book and to identify all these things that they're psychological.


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[Assistant] They're psychological traits or psychological characteristics or psychological maneuvers. So they work again, they work with human beings. So it doesn't matter your leadership, your interrogation, your, your negotiation, they're all, they're all gonna have some similar


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[Assistant] Similar approaches and they are and so yeah, it was really cool really cool to read about really cool to To go through and then be able to sit here with Chris and talk through it


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[Assistant] Uh, and you know, it's awesome. And again, I kinda did go through, I talked about it on the podcast, but like the book has a bunch of cool stories in it, right?


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[Assistant] And is there a temptation just to jump into like negotiation, hostage negotiation, all that stuff, but I felt like I really kind of wanted to dive into the tactics, the principles themselves, so maybe I was a little bit selfish on that one.


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[Assistant] Yeah, the other thing that I, I thought about, look, I don't care how long a podcast is gonna be, I don't care if it's 12 hours, but.


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[Assistant] branches and you know, sub stories and details. That's going to be, you know, we get to a point where diminishing returns, right? We just have a 19 hour podcast in which point just get on, just, just go and read the book yourself or go get the audio book and


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[Assistant] Go with it that way. So, that's kind of the, kind of how I went with it. But uh, really, just awesome to have him on here and learn from.


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[Assistant] You know, the subtitle of the book is negotiating as if your life depends on it. Depended on it, right? So he has countless times negotiated stuff where someone's life or lives were on the line.


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[Assistant] If you can negotiate for someone's life, you can negotiate for the car that you want. The used car that you want to pay, you know, 2,700 bucks for instead of the 4,200 bucks that they're offering it.


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[Assistant] There you go, uh, thanks for joining us everybody. If you want to, if you like this podcast, if you want to support it,


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[Assistant] And you want to actually support yourself cognitively, you want to be cognitively ready for those moments. That's why I'm three deep right now with Jocko Fuel. I dig it. With Discipline Goes.


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[Assistant] Normally you'd be thinking, oh you drank three energy drinks today? You've had a bad day. You have to mark this down as a negative on your overall health. We're actually not doing that at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not even doing that at all. Cause I had one, what time is it? It's 4 o'clock right now. I had the first one at like 10.30.


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[Assistant] Go to JockoFuel.com, get yourself some mulk, which is dessert. Get yourself some go. You can also go to Wawa. We got the ready to drink protein.


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[Assistant] Uhm, we're getting there, but the ready to drink stuff is kind of a game changer. Yea, it's good.


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[Assistant] We know we sat down at table at camp and Pete was all like, bro it's better than chocolate milk. And she looked at him like he was just a liar.


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[Assistant] Get em out. So we got out the straight regular like chocolate milk. Yea. And mulk. Side by side. Taste test. Well, blind taste test.


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[Assistant] That's the, that's the true, that's probably the truest and most awesome test that's ever been performed for taste in the world.


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[Assistant] So, there you go. Get yourself some mulk, get yourself some ready to drink mulk. Vitamin shops got this stuff as well. Go in there. Thing is, hey, can you remember about Wawa? Somebody hit me up on social media, they cleared the shelves. In Wawa. Thank you. Cause look, it's a war out there.


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[Assistant] Have I explained the war to you a little bit? It's a war. The big companies don't like the little companies.


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[Assistant] Overwhelming firepower in the term, in the form of cash money that they can throw to try and crush


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[Assistant] The uh, the, the up and comers. They don't want that competition. They want to smash. They want to smash Jocko Fuel. They want to smash Discipline Go.


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[Assistant] And so we appreciate it when you help us fight the man. Right? The corporate.


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[Assistant] Hunt gear. We're getting it out. Certain pieces are out. The pants are out. The, some of the shirts are out. Just get on there and order it. If, if it's not available right now, we're making it. And if you want to get it, you gotta order it now. I'm sorry.


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[Assistant] But you gotta order it now, and then we'll get it to you as soon as it's ready, as soon as it's been made here in America by American hands. Jeans. Boots.


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[Assistant] So that's what we're doing. OriginUSA.com Get yourself some of that. Support America. And support yourself.


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[Assistant] Bro, they already have Christmas stuff available. Where was it? My wife came home and said they, like, she went to Target or Walmart or something. And they were like, she's like, Christmas gear is up.


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[Assistant] We've been recording those. Putting word out, answering your questions.


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[Assistant] Uh, if you go to jocounderground.com, look, people are getting censored right now, people are getting banned, whatever. We're not gonna, that's not gonna happen to us, at least on the platform that we, it could happen on this platform, whatever platform you're listening to. They could ban us.


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[Assistant] If that happens, we'll be on jockonderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. If you can't afford it.


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[Assistant] No big deal, we still, we're still here to support. Look, we know.


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[Assistant] It's hard times right now, right? If you can't afford it, email assistance at joco underground dot com. If you can't afford it, cool. Support the cause.


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[Assistant] Psychological warfare, we've got flipsidecanvas.com Books, obviously never split the difference.


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[Assistant] By Chris Voss. Check that book out and then all the books I've written. Get that book, Only Cry for the Living by Holly McKay.


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[Assistant] Uh, just a great book. We put it out on Jocko Publishing. Check that one out and then all the books I've written. You know what they are.


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[Assistant] That book would have helped you sell out so much if you had it when you were a kid. It would have helped me. And if you know kids, any kids, get them that book. Once again, Christmas? Cool. Get it. Make it happen. Uh, Ashlong Front.


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[Assistant] You heard me talking a lot about leadership today? Well, we solve problems through leadership at Echelon Front. Go to echelonfront.com and also up and coming we've got an, uh, a little something that we call


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The roll call. Which roll call is an event. And we've got one. October 17th in St. Louis, Missouri.


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[Assistant] Had to just check this because they told me they still got some seats. Our stuff sells out quick, so roll call is for police, law enforcement, first responders, military,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] October 17th, St. Louis, Missouri. If you can, if you're in that category, go and check that out. It's going to be, it's our leadership principles kind of geared toward that group of people. Also, we have online training. Said this today. You're not going to get good at leadership with one book.


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[Assistant] Go to ExtremeOwnership.com, learn about life. Square your life away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Extreme ownership dot com. And if you want to help service members active and retire, you want to help their families.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a charity organization. If you want to donate, or you want to get involved, go to americasmightywarriors.org. Also, check out Mike Afink. He's got his program taking you up and taking vets up in the wilderness.


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[Assistant] We are also on social media and what not.


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[Assistant] Twitter, gram, Facebook, Echoes at EchoCharles, I'm at Jocko Willink. Of course, watch out because that algorithm's sitting there waiting to grab you by the throat and drag you into oblivion.


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[Assistant] Don't let it. Uh, thanks once again to Chris Voss for joining us, for teaching us about negotiation and thanks to Chris for his service in the police department and the FBI.


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[Assistant] Thanks to all the FBI agents that are out there right now, doing their best to keep us safe.


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[Assistant] And the same goes to the rest of our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all first responders. Thanks for everything that you all do to keep us safe. And of course, thanks to our military men and women who are on the front lines around the world right now.


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[Assistant] We live in freedom because of the sacrifices you make. Thank you for your service and everyone else out there. Life is a negotiation.


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[Assistant] And listen more than you talk, not just in negotiation, but in leadership and life. And until next time, this is Echo and Jaco.


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[Assistant] Yeah, George Offline was asking about like, hey, do you have anything for joints and aches? Cause I'm getting older.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so it's one of those things where, I mean, you know, when you're young.


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[Assistant] You know, you don't pay attention to that kind of stuff, but if you maintain like solid health,


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[Assistant] Join, yea, you'll flow right into, uh, old adulthood and be fine. Trust me, I know. Is that where you're at?


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[Assistant] Where you can get your shirts and hoodies and hats and stuff. Rash guard's on there as well. But yea, discipline equals freedom. It's good, you wanna represent. It's a good place to get your stuff.


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[Assistant] Actually, you know, okay, so you know the shirt you're wearing right now? Your uniform, what is that, tier? I don't know, I forget how the tiers work in uniform. Three? I don't know if there's such a thing as a tier. Or, or, what do you call it? There's like a, the jer- the dress. Oh yeaah. And then there's- Dress blues. And then there's- Class A's or something like that. Oh yeaah, well either way.


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[Assistant] That's your uniform, right? That shirt is called Black Ops.


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[Assistant] Yep, but yeaah, that's a subscription scenario, you get a new shirt every month, people seem to like it, so check that out also. It's called the Shirt Locker, it's on ChocoStore.


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[Assistant] Try get it, get it back, your old handle. So I registered again on my old handle and I got it back.


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[Assistant] This is Jocko podcast number 370 with echo Charles and me Jocko willing good evening echo good evening so if you Are listening and you didn't listen to the last podcast number 369 go back and listen to it. This is a continuation of that podcast


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[Assistant] We are talking about the games we are playing.


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[Assistant] The subordinate games that make up various aspects of life and then ultimately the game of life itself. And just to say this, and we kind of talked about this on the last one, recognition of the game is


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[Assistant] A huge part of the battle. Just recognizing that there's a game going on is a huge part of the battle. It's like,


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[Assistant] When, uh, people are alcoholics and sort of the, the beginning of solving the problem is admitting, oh, I'm an alcoholic. That's what they say. Or realizing.


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[Assistant] That you've been hustled in, uh, in pool. Right? Sure. Like, if you don't know that you're getting hustled. Yea. They're playing a game with you. Yea.


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[Assistant] You, you, you'll literally stop getting hustled as soon as you recognize what's happening. Uh, three card, the three card shuffle. You ever seen that?


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[Assistant] You think you're gonna win that game. They're playing a game. They're playing a different game than you are.


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[Assistant] A, you realize someone's playing you in a relationship, right? That's a common term. We don't talk about the game, but we talk about getting played. Getting played, yeaah.


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[Assistant] Once you know you're getting played, hopefully you go, oh, okay, now I understand the game that's happening, I'm losing the game, I'm gonna get out of the game.


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[Assistant] So that's kind of the, the prime, primary piece of information from the last podcast was to make sure you know you are in a game.


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[Assistant] I'm gonna go back to David Foster Wallace's commencement speech, which I talked a little bit about on the last podcast. Here's another excerpt.


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[Assistant] And you get up in the morning, go to your challenging white collar college graduate job and you work hard for eight or 10 hours. And at the end of the day, you're tired and somewhat stressed and all you want to do is go home and have a good supper and maybe unwind for an hour and then hit the sack early because of course you have to get up the next day and do it all again.


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[Assistant] But then you remember there's no food at home. You haven't had time to shop this week because of your challenging job. So now after work, you have to get in your car and drive to the supermarket. It's the end of the work day and the traffic is apt to be very bad.


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[Assistant] So getting to the store takes way longer than it should. And when you finally get there, the supermarket is very crowded because of course it's the time of day when all the other people with jobs also try and squeeze in some grocery shopping. And the store is hideously lit.


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[Assistant] And it's pretty much the last place you wanna be, but you can't.


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[Assistant] All your supper supplies, except now it turns out that there aren't enough checkout lanes open.


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[Assistant] Even though it's the end of the day rush. So the checkout line is incredibly long, which is stupid and infuriating.


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[Assistant] But you can't take your frustration out on the lady, on the frantic lady working the register, who's overworked at a job whose daily tedium and meaninglessness surpasses the imagination of any of us here at a prestigious college. But anyway,


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[Assistant] You finally get to the checkout lines front and you pay for your food and you get told to have a nice day in a voice that is absolutely the voice of death.


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[Assistant] Then you have to take your creepy flimsy plastic bags of groceries in your cart.


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[Assistant] With the one crazy wheel that pulls mattingly-ly to the left. All the way through the crowded, bumpy, literary parking lot. And then you have to drive all the way home through slow, heavy, SUV intensive rush hour traffic, et cetera, et cetera. Everyone has done this, of course.


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[Assistant] But it hasn't been part of your graduate's actual life routine.


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[Assistant] Day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. But it will be.


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[Assistant] And many more dreary, annoying, seemingly meaningless routines besides. But that is not the point. The point!


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[Assistant] Is that petty frustrating crap like this is exactly where the work of choosing is gonna come in.


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[Assistant] Because the traffic jams and crowded aisles and long checkout lines give me time to think. And if I don't make a conscious decision about how to think and what to pay attention to, I'm gonna be pissed and miserable every time I have to shop.


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[Assistant] Because my natural default setting is the certainty that situations like this are really all about me.


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[Assistant] And look at how repulsive most of them are. And how stupid and cow-like and dead-eyed and non-human they seem in the checkout line. Or at how annoying and rude it is that people are talking loudly on cell phones in the middle of the line. And look at how deeply and personally unfair this is.


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[Assistant] Most disgustingly selfish vehicles driven by the ugliest most inconsiderate aggressive drivers. And I can think about how our children's children will despise us for wasting all the futures fuel and probably screwing up the climate and how spoiled and stupid and selfish and disgusting we all are and how modern consumer society just sucks. And so forth and so on. You get the idea.


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[Assistant] If I choose to think this way in a store and on the freeway, fine. Lots of us do. Except...


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[Assistant] Thinking this way tends to be so easy and automatic that it doesn't have a choice.


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[Assistant] It is my natural default setting. It's the automatic way that I experience boring, frustrating, crowded parts of adult life when I'm operating on all the automatic unconscious belief that I am the center of the world and that my immediate needs and feelings are what should determine the world's priorities.


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[Assistant] The thing is, of course, there are two, there are totally different ways to think about these kinds of situations in this traffic.


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[Assistant] All these vehicles stopped and idling in my way. It's not impossible that some of these people in these SUVs have been in horrible auto accidents in the past and now find driving so terrifying that their therapist has all but ordered them to get huge heavy SUV so they can feel safe enough to drive.


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[Assistant] Or I can choose to force myself to consider the likelihood that everyone else in the supermarket checkout line is just as bored and frustrated as I am. And that some of these people probably have harder, more tedious and more painful lives than I do.


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[Assistant] Again, please don't think that I am giving you moral advice, or that I'm saying you are supposed to think this way, or that anybody expects you to just automatically do it, because it's hard. It takes will and effort.


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[Assistant] And if you are like me, some days you won't be able to do it, or you just flat out won't want to.


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[Assistant] If you're aware enough to give yourself a choice, you can choose to look differently at this fat dead-eyed over-made-up lady who just screamed at her kid in the checkout line. Maybe she's not unusually like this.


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[Assistant] Maybe she's not usually like this. Maybe she's been up three straight nights holding the hand of a husband who is dying of bone cancer. Or maybe this very lady is the low wage clerk at the motor vehicle department who just yesterday helped your spouse resolve a horrific, infuriating red tape problem through some small act of bureaucratic kindness. Of course, none of this is likely, but it's also not impossible. It just depends on what you want to consider.


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[Assistant] If you're automatically sure that you know what reality is and you are operating on your default setting, then you, like me, probably won't consider possibilities that aren't annoying and miserable.


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[Assistant] But if you really learn how to pay attention, then you will know there are other options.


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[Assistant] It will actually be within your power to experience a crowded, hot, slow, consumer hell type situation as not only meaningful,


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[Assistant] But sacred, on fire with the same force that made the stars. Love, fellowship, the mystical oneness of all things deep down. Not that that mystical stuff is necessarily true. The only thing that's capital T true is that you get to decide how you're gonna try to see it.


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[Assistant] The reason that I wanted to go back to this speech is because it points out the fact that it's very easy. It's extremely easy to go through life on autopilot.


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[Assistant] Right, to actually go through life, seeing things through miserable colored lenses, right? You know, you get the rose colored lenses. It's really easy to go through life with just seeing everything as miserable. Just like it's that, that's easy.


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[Assistant] We actually get to choose the way we look at things. Sometimes we don't even realize that we have a choice.


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[Assistant] We get numb down and we get dumb down and I think that's why often times people don't realize that they're in a game. They don't see it. So,


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[Assistant] There's a couple things to think about as we continue this discussion about the games and playing games and the game that we're in. With games, in any game, well in most games, there's chances. There's a level of luck involved. Good luck, bad luck, right?


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[Assistant] I mean it happens on a football field, you get a bad bounce, you get a good bounce. That can be win or lose the game.


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[Assistant] That in wrestling, they literally toss a coin in wrestling.


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[Assistant] Who's gonna get top position, who's gonna get bottom position. If you're a great top player, you could, and you're bad at bottom player, you can literally win or lose the game on a coin toss.


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[Assistant] In life, right? Oh, it's really nice to be


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[Assistant] Born into a good family with he- with health and money and connections and stability. That's- that's great, right?


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[Assistant] Lucky enough to have. You wanna be a basketball player? It's really nice when you're 6'9".


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[Assistant] Or if you want to go into academics and you have a, a photographic memory, that's, you're pretty lucky. And not everyone gets that gift.


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[Assistant] You're in the business world and you have a good knack for numbers. Those are, those are nice things to have. So there's luck and there's some skill that you are, that you, you might just have through that luck.


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[Assistant] And this is sort of lens to what we talked about in the last podcast. It's your play that has the most impact in dictating success or failure.


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[Assistant] It's you, it's the way it's how you play the game that counts.


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[Assistant] Because if you were 6'9", probably would be a pretty good, pretty good decision to get into basketball.


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[Assistant] There's no guarantee, but you, you at least you're kind of going to be on, on the map a little bit. I mean, in high school, you're going to be a dominant player. You're six, nine. You're going to be a dominant player. So you got to kind of make a decision about what game you're going to play.


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[Assistant] And that, that starts to play a role in whether you're gonna win or lose the game.


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[Assistant] Because if you're 6'9 and you decide to become a gymnast...


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[Assistant] You're gonna have issues. If you're 5-2, 5-3.


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[Assistant] And you decide you're going to play basketball, you're probably going to have some issues now. It can be done. Right? Muggsy Bogues, 5'3".


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[Assistant] What games you're going to play. You have a choice into how you're going to keep score. You have a choice in what means winning and what means losing.


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[Assistant] So, when it comes to life, what game are we playing? What rules?


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[Assistant] We're talking about the broad, the supreme game of life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You could probably start with, uh, Maslow's hierarchy of needs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this guy is, he, this guy Maslow, uhm, Abraham Maslow, born in Brooklyn, 1908, died in 1970, he's a, a psychologist, and he made up this motivational hierarchy in psychology, and this was his biggest contribution.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, the base of the pyramid, the lowest thing, but the most important thing that you have to get out of the gate, is your physiological needs. Obviously, air, water, food, shelter, sleep, clothing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reproduction, like these are the base needs that you have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those are your physiological needs. Above that, in his, according to his hierarchy, is safety. So, personal security.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I don't normally like to say the L word on the podcast, but love and belonging. This is friendship. This is intimacy. This is family. This is a sense of connection. You got esteem is the next one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For a human to maximize their potential.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some of the characteristics of that are how you perceive reality, that you can, that someone that's self-actualized can perceive reality the way it is. Now, we've talked about this before, like, everyone's perception of reality is different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which again, that's an interesting one, because if...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You are Muggsy Bogues and you're like, well I just have to deal with the fact that I'm 5'3 and I'm never, no actually, he didn't accept it. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Except other people for who they are. They're not self-centered, they're creative, they're resistant to conformity. They appreciate basic life experience, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's this, that's this hierarchy of needs, right? You got your physiological needs, your safety.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Food, water, shelter, sure, we get that. If you don't have that, there's not much else going on. Safety, sure, we get that. If you're under constant fear, if you're the mouse trapped with the cat, that's not good, you gotta figure it out. Then you get to this one, belonging.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not everyone has this deep desire to belong. I get it, it's pretty common. But, some people prefer to be alone. I mean, there's such a thing as a hermit. Right?


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[Assistant] And I think different people would prioritize this differently.


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[Assistant] I get that you could say for most people we want to have some social belonging, but I think this varies a lot.


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[Assistant] That being said, I think it's a strong, I think in most people it is a pretty strong thing.


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[Assistant] You know, that's why we have tribes, that's why we have gangs, that's why we have freaking Democrats and Republicans. That's why we have...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that clearly indicates you don't spend that kind of money if you don't want some kind of sense of belonging. So, so this is, I'm just saying, not everyone feels this way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Becoming who they are, right? Yeah. Am I being too, am I being too much? Am I going too hard in the face?


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[Assistant] Is that the game you're gonna play? You want recognition? Okay. You want status? Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's, that you want this quote unquote self-actualization. What does that actually mean? That can mean a lot of different things. So look, there's people that look, self-actualization is becoming a Buddhist monk in Thailand, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's some people, self-actualization is becoming, you know, the Jiu-Jitsu champion. There's some people going down the line. So that's a real vague term.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's an ideal. Each one of these, if we view them as an ideal, they're somewhat more acceptable. But they are games.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And those are sensible pursuits for most people after water, shelter, food and safety. In my opinion. Work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like good job, occupation, health and fitness, yes. Good relationships, yes. Maybe the relationships that, that, that's in belonging, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe the work goes into esteem of recognition and status.


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[Assistant] So I'm just trying to line these up and understand what I think with what some a little bit more, you know, academic version of this is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You could put these into, into various games.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With various reward systems, with various ways of winning, and a real obvious one is money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of people, they're playing the game of trying to gather up money. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? It's supposed to be that if you have more money, you eventually get freedom. And there's the whole idea that, you know, someone is a ski bum. They don't have any money. They work, you know, up on the mountain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're lifty up on the mountain. Hell yeaah. And they gotta work four hours in the morning every day, but they're skiing every day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they, even though they don't have money, they're kind of doing what they, meanwhile there's another guy that's working 80 hour weeks down in, you know, down in the city.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can actually end up being sort of an addiction as well, where now that's where it becomes your master. And listen, I've known people that they love that game.


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[Assistant] They literally love making money. Like, deals. And they love it. And every time they make money, it's incredibly rewarding to them.


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[Assistant] If they're lucky, they're good at that game.


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[Assistant] And, and I've got friends that are really good at making a lot of money. And they're good at it. And they're happy. And they...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause you get someone that's not really good at making money and they play in that game and they don't win and they're not gonna be happy. So, you gotta be careful when it comes to the money making game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you good at it? We talked about last time, are you in the, are you playing the game with money that's gonna make you a lot of money?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, 80, 90, 100 hours a week, in the wrong game, you're not making any money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you make $52,000 a year working 80 hour a week, you're a hard worker, you're smart, but it's just not getting you there. You gotta be playing a different game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To you or a basketball player or academia, right? People pursue a life in academia. They want to win that game. They want to get the most prestigious college. They want to get the most prestigious. They want to write the prestigious paper that gets published in the procedures, uh, when they call it journal. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or being in the military. I always gotta bring that one up, I was in the military. I was playing that game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was in that game. You're trying to get, you know, get the right job, work in the right place. You know, I want to be a SEAL.


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[Assistant] People want to win, like, you name it. And there's someone that's gonna make that a huge part of the game that they're playing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's sort of the character of Artie, the cleaner, who's totally into washing machines and dryers and folding laundry and stuff like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You train, you compete, if you want to get to the pinnacle, you learn these moves, you cut weight, you get to this championship, you win, that's defined, what you do, academia, right? Same thing. Like, oh, you want to be, you want to be a respected academic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go to this school, go to this school, go to this school, get this degree, get this degree, get this degree, write your paper.


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[Assistant] For the journal, right? Do those things, and eventually you're at the apex, or you're at least in the top percent of this academic group. Military is really defined.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, you're gonna go in, you're gonna get this job, you're gonna do this job, you're gonna promote.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in some respects, those games kinda have something cool to them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is there, they're not as all encompassing as people think. So people get wrapped around being the best jujitsu player, the best basketball player, the best


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Acad- best in academia, the best in the military. Happens a lot with the military, right? We see that, that person's doing the military thing, and then all of a sudden their career's over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like hey, you're a general or an admiral in the military?


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[Assistant] Let's say you're a four star admiral or a three star general. Bro, you are kind of a, a king.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? You're kind of a king. You have a chauffeur, you have people, vehicles driving you around. You get off the plane, there's people waiting for you. They set their whole schedule around you. You got, you got.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then one day you retire. And all of a sudden all that stuff is gone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now look, you're probably gonna go get a job at some military company and fuel that military industrial complex. But even then, even then, you're just another, at that point you're another admiral. You're another general. They got, they got 28 admirals. They got 47 generals. So all of a sudden you're just a person again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or you're in Marsok, or you're a Green Beret, and that's, hey man, you walk in, you're an army dude, you're a Green Beret, and you walk into a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, a conventional army battalion, all of a sudden people are giving you respect. Once you get out, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, what happens when you're done? What are you doing? You were a champion. Or you were a contender. Now all of a sudden you look around, what do you have? You've got people who are doing better now in the UFC, but,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 10 years ago? Even 5 years ago? I guess go 10 years ago? If you were the champion of the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you couldn't fight anymore for whatever reason. You got too old or you got beat up too much or you, you know, you were just done, you got injured.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those guys literally don't have any money. There's nothing.


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[Assistant] Flag officer. I'm not going to narrow it down between the services, but uh, Admiral General type with multiple stars on their collar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, cause they have their own flag that flies skin. You know, you show up, you're a flag officer, they fly a flag for you. One star, two star, three star flag gets flown. Damn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A very senior person, not, he wasn't in the SEAL teams, but a very senior person, saying that his career, where he'd spent, you know, what is it, 25, 30, maybe even over 30 years, that's all bullshit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Knew he was in the game, but thought that that was the supreme game and it wasn't. And when he got out, he looked around and said, damn, I was playing this game over here. I was like the most dominant freaking kickball player on the school field.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was the champion and people had to give me their, their cookies at lunch because I beat them. And then all of a sudden he looks like gets, like leaves the school field and realized there's major league baseball.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And look, there's some people, they get out of the Army, they get out of the Navy, they get out of the Marine Corps, and they're, they're totally stoked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're like, oh yea, I played that game, it was awesome, I loved it, I'm retired now.


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[Assistant] I'm glad I invested all that time and effort into that game cause I loved it. I feel that way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I don't fi- I got out of the SEAL teams and I was like, damn, that was freaking awesome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you don't pay attention, you might be putting your time and effort into a game that's not as important as you think it is. So be careful of that. You can see this with social media as well. Right? Like, people think that social media matters in a big way. And it's like, oh, actually, you know, actually, you could go off social media and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a problem. So when you're investing a lot into a game, make sure that it's the right game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then figure out if you should be actually playing this game. Or not. Or how long are you gonna play it for? What are you gonna invest in it? You can play a different game. Maybe you can pursue what you truly want to pursue.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because this is where, this is where real problems begin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a guy asked a question, you know, uhm, he said, hey, you guys fired up. He says, hey, you know, I got a good job. I make really good money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have a happy family, I got a wife and two kids, 2.5 kids, whatever it was. You know, so he had a good life, he's explaining. He said, you know, I just can't find the motivation to get up in the morning and do more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The first way that he could be lying to himself is he's lying to himself that he wants to do more.


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[Assistant] Like, I really wanna get up and I wanna do more. There's a chance that that's a lie.


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[Assistant] Because if it's really there, when you feel that lack of achievement, when you feel that you could do more, when you know you're not reaching your potential, that eats you up. You don't need to find a motivation. Motivation finds you. You can't sleep because you want to do more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, there's a chance that this guy's lying to himself about the fact that he wants to do more. And he's actually content. The other lie that he could tell


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Could be telling. Is that he's, when he says he's happy and he has a good job and he has great money and he has a happy family, there's a chance that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh hey, I'm totally good to go. No you're not! So tell the truth about that. Be like, you know what? I'm making good money, but I want to make more money. I want to set my kids up for life. I want to take better care of my wife. I want to be able to spend, I want to be able to get a vacation. Whatever those things are, tell the truth. And if you tell the truth about those things, you can go, you know what? If I want to get another home, if I want to get a vacation home,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The car payment's handled. The Netflix account is paid off. Right? We're good.


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[Assistant] That's not supposed to elicit a hell yeah from you. But there's people like this. There's nothing wrong with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's nothing wrong with that. If that's where you're at and you're like, Hey, look, I got a rent, got a cool place. I got, you know, I got a, I got my Netflix covered. I got, um, you know, I got a cool car. We're all good. Got a nice girlfriend. We're all good. There's people that legitimately are content with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So don't lie to yourself. And in this case,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That I was talking to this guy from New York, most likely the lie is contentment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most likely he's not as happy as he wants to be. Most likely he has unreached potential. That's a serious issue for a lot of people. And the older you get, the stronger that grows.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, when you look at yourself in the mirror and you know time has passed, that you wasted?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That starts to eat at you. That can start to eat at you. And so, here's what I told this guy, I said, listen, discipline that you're looking for, that motivation, that discipline that you're looking for, discipline is rooted in the truth we tell ourselves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Discipline is rooted in the truth that we tell ourselves. And this is J, I, a couple weeks later I was doing a gig with JP, JP Denell, and I told, you know, we were having a discussion about where he was at, and I told him the same thing. Discipline is rooted in the truth we tell ourselves. If you tell yourself the truth, you'll find discipline.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And actually, if you tell yourself the truth, most likely discipline will find you. So, do not lie to yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you're happy, cool, enjoy it. If you get, if you pull that truth out of yourself, and you know what? I'm freaking stoked. I got a, I got a house, I got a girlfriend, I got Netflix, I'm good. If that's where you get, cool, enjoy it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People lie about the hard games. People lie about, you know, oh I don't really care about money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't want to spend my whole life working, I don't care how big I am, I don't care how strong I am. That's a lie. Not in all cases, but in a lot of cases.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I don't really care about having it. I don't want some big house then you just gotta take care of it. Okay. That could be a lie. Put your lie detector on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If the goal that you're talking about you don't care about is big and takes hard work, put your lie detector on it and make sure you're not lying to yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if you do care, don't lie to yourself. Now you might have to put some realistic goals on yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? You might have to be like, okay, I'm not happy with where I'm at. This is what I want, you know, I want a freaking mansion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or I want, I wanna, I wanna a house on beachfront Malibu. 20 mil, by the way. That might not be a realistic goal for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if you're like, well, you know, I don't really care about that, so I'm good with my apartment over here. I'm good with renting my apartment over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If that's really, if you really like, look at your life, and you look at your game, and you look at your plan, and you look at where you're gonna be, and you're like, I like renting an apartment. And this is where I'm truly happy. Okay. But I'm asking you please, don't lie to yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They say they want to be a SEAL. They sign up for 6 years of their lives.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they quit and then two days later, two hours later, they're like, damn, I know I actually do. I do want to do that. Yeah. But at the moment of truth, you lied to yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We end up doing a lot of lying to ourselves about the game that we're playing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it'll agree with the fact that you really don't care about, you know, having a good relationship with this girl or this guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or it'll say, you know what, I don't really care about getting advanced at work, cause I'm good with where I'm at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, pay attention to the game that you're playing. Select the right game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they're like, if they break and they go, you know, I don't really care about being strong. And then you're like, hey, here's a pill you can take. It'll make you freaking super strong. 100% of people are taking it. There's no one that says I don't want that pill. There's people that aren't willing to make the sacrifice. Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 25 seconds. That's hard. What's funny is you never say I'm too mentally weak to go through this because if you say that you're you actually you actually wreck what you'll say is like I don't you know


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is, we can propel ourselves down the path in life of getting on the easiest game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly. You can say, hey, here's the easiest path to take, that's a good enough game for me. And listen, this is what you gotta watch out for. You gotta watch out for un...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Utilized potential that you have as a human being.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what ends up, in my opinion, becoming regret.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That becomes resentment towards other people as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I'm, when you see like, oh, uh, Jaco, like I post, oh I just got done training jiu-jitsu and you didn't. Are you a little bit mad?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know that someone else who's pretty much the same level human as you. Like look, I look at some people like, damn that person's doing, I don't have the capability of doing what they're doing in that arena. Like whatever that arena is. Freaking Tom Brady, right? What's this dude doing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And both those guys, massive work ethic, dedication.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I'm over here, I'm not looking at Gordon Ryan like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, frustrated about him. I might be like, damn bro. I might be like, that, that dude is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I actually it's just actually I know I'm trying to think of what my emotions are when I look at Tom Brady or I look at


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Michael Jordan or I look at Gordon Ryan, it's like, oh, that's a human that got the blessing of having a level of natural ability that then took it to the nth degree. Good for them, bro. Respect. I don't even feel frustrated about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they go, dude, Joe Schmo did this and I'm sitting over here and that person did better than me. And I know I have more talent than them. That's where people get pissed. That's where people get resentful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's the deal with Tom Brady as far as like, you know, you see these, the, the numbers that he did in the combine when he was getting drafted and he was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they show pictures of him, he had no vertical. So was he just not like the best athlete? And then he got, he worked to get that athletic? Or was he just not been on the right program?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, he could have been a really good athlete that just didn't know how to train right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, one thing about Phaidor, when people talk about the different talents that people have, right? And you got...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You got, uh, Yoel Romero, right? Just an explosive. He's like a superhero explosive. You got some other guy that could, you know, Nate Diaz, just go endurance, bro. He'll just gonna, he's gonna keep going. Nothing gonna stop him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From an endurance perspective, BJ Penn, flexible, super flexible. You got guys that just cardio machines, Frankie Edgar, right? So there's different people that have different talents. What I always found about Fedor Malianenko, who a lot of people say is the best heavyweight of all time,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, in mixed martial arts. What I, I thought like his talent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was that he knew how to fight really good. You know, like he knew how to take his wrestling, his boxing, his striking, his grappling. He knew how to take all those things. His talent was being able to put them all into one, into one package and utilize the right skill at the right time. Better than anyone else in his era.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he hits the ground and he looks like, it looks like I just walked up to you and like said hi. That's the expression. He just looks totally normal and he gets a gun and a camera.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was taking all those things like, he, if there was no MMA and there was just boxing, he wouldn't have been a world champion boxer. If there was just wrestling, he wouldn't have been a world champion wrestler.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, when we're cruising around life,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you can, and you can identify what talent you have,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That can help you identify what game you should get into. And if you're lucky,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The game that you're good at is the game that you also like to play, right? Cause there's some people that have a natural skill, but they don't like that game, right? There's also some people that lack a skill, but they love that game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I appreciate the heart, man, and you, you, you, that might be the right move for you. Because then you're doing something that you love and you get beat, it doesn't really matter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As long as you accept that and you understand that, and you understand what winning is gonna look like for you in that particular game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And your parents are getting you into law school and you want to be a welder? Cause you like fabricating stuff with your hands? Let me tell you what game you should pick. You should pick that fabrication.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You should become a welder. Cause your passion and your love for welding will more than make up for the fact that it might start off with a lower income than being a lawyer, which by the way probably isn't even true these days. Cause being a lawyer, there's so many lawyers out there, it takes a long time to build up your life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you, and you just, you just have to pay attention to yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what I would say about both those, your parents want you to be a lawyer, they've told you to be a lawyer. If you lie to yourself, it ain't gonna work out well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You all think you're gonna not, you're not worried about, hey, something will happen. Which is, by the way, lying to yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But also, that flag officer's like, well, they're like, yeah, yeah, we got a job for you, just gotta move to whatever this place is. And the guy's like, well, I wanted to retire to Tennessee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so then they're like, oh, I guess I'll just not do that. And look, you got an admiral's, you got an admiral's pay, admiral's retirement, or a general's retirement, which is good money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's not getting you anything close to the life that you had when you were an active duty general officer. Cause you had a driver and you had a car and you had a freaking airplane! Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the cheap seats, you know? So, that's where it sneaks up on people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's people that do that in every industry that happens in, in, uh, in the academics. It happens in the financial industry. It happens in any industry, any, any job that you can have. If you don't recognize the ecosystem that that job actually encompasses and think that it encompasses more. If you think that the ecosystem encompasses the whole world, like there's like being a seal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's me, there's some other guy that did four years. To necessarily in the world, that's just a seal. They're all the same dude. Right? Well this guy was an admiral. Sure some people might say, well admiral sounds pretty important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well this guy over here says, yea I was a Master Chief. Master Chief, Admiral, those guys both sound pretty awesome to me. Right? It's like the same thing. So you think that that ecosystem expands to encompass the whole universe and you think it expands to encompass life? It doesn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] University you went to. Sure, if you went to the big, whatever, big Ivy League, there's people that care about that, but then, there's also people that are like, I don't care where you went to school. Whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You went to Harvard, you went to Princeton, you went to Berkeley, you went to Yale, you went to wherever, okay cool, whatever. We don't care. Can you perform in this job?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we're not thinking about that, we end up with issues. That's why, you know, I've told vets for all these years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You need to find a new mission. Find a new mission because that, once you're out of the military, no one calls you Master Chief anymore. No one calls you Commander anymore. Doesn't happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sure, you can go to the country club and someone calls you admiral if you tell them all about it, but they're just kinda like whatever, it's no big deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we have to be careful about this. You know, the UFC thing for sure is, you know, guys that fought in the UFC and then that's over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, even jujitsu guys, like, oh, that's over. Like you just said, football guys. Like you're on, you're on an NFL football team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nowadays, cool, you're gonna get a good retirement you're gonna need to take care of. But back in the day?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But what's interesting is if you were in the NFL back then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you pulled chips off the table in that game and put it into the bigger game? Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's how you win. That's how you look up and go, yeah, you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't do great in the UFC. I fought for the belt twice, didn't win it, but I, you know, bought these three apartment buildings.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, over a five year period. Two of them are paid for. You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden you go, oh. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The only way you get to see that is by following the advice we gave on the last podcast. Take a step back and write down the game that you're in and the multiple games that you're in. And then what are the strategies to win these games?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're doing dumb things. Hey, oh, I'm gonna deal some drugs right now. Right? I'm gonna deal some drugs and I'm gonna make some money right now, blah, blah, blah. Then you get caught. And now you're screwed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the short term games, you can get involved in games that don't matter. You get involved in games that take away your resources. And if you do that, you're gonna, you're gonna sacrifice the supreme game. Again, please go and write down


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Winning the game of life might be, hey, I've got a big family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've got a bunch of kids, I've got a bunch of grandkids, that's a W. It might be, hey, I'm not really into a big family, but I've got a bunch of properties, and I've got a, uhm, I know I can spend my final years doing whatever I want, and that's your W. If that's your W, fine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe it's, hey look, I don't really care about money, but I wanna live by the beach, or I wanna live in the mountains, and I wanna be left alone, and not have to worry about anything, and that's the W. Okay. Cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think when I talked earlier about the knowing that you have a certain level of potential, knowing that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have a certain amount of time, knowing that I have opportunities that some of my friends don't have anymore. It's like, oh, if you don't think I'm going to try and do my best to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fulfill the potential that I have to, to squeeze what I can out of life. Well yea, no, of course I think that way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I was doing. I knew I had a longer future, you know, and knew I'd be able to kind of have some time to put that together. But, that being said, I've told my kids, I've been like, oh, if I would have been smarter, the whole world would be different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I, if I think about it kind of bifurcate the two thoughts, one of them is like, well, yeah, I had a good time and it was fun. But also if I look at it from a more mature aspect, it's like, yeah, you know, I would have been in a much better position now than, than I


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now listen, I will say that I'm in a really good position right now in my life. Like, I mean, I've got good stuff going on. I kind of have what I, what I want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, if I wouldn't have gotten onto this path that we're on right now, you know, if I, if I would have retired from the military and run the gym and taught jiu-jitsu,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd be like, damn, I wasted, I blew a lot of stuff. Luckily, like I said, I think I've made maneuvers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once I identified the game that I was playing,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which I didn't really do until I was like 25 years old. It's like, okay, I see this game. Okay, now I'm in a game. Here's the, here's the menu, here's the moves that I have to make. Here's the things that I have to do to set myself up for the long run.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And once I did that, then I was able to sort it out. But if I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, and then continued to identify, oh, this is the game that's going on right now. Okay, here's, here's how I can make moves. So I think if I wouldn't have identified that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doing things and learning about life and going through experiences that I learned a lot from. And I think that was beneficial. And it makes me who I am. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Satisfying, gratifying, and regret removal, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I think if I, if I had not done what I had wanted to do, like, well, you know, you played football.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is there a part of you that goes, man, if I would've pushed a little bit harder, if I would've trained a little bit harder, if I would've been a little bit more dedicated, I probably could've, you know, maybe I could've gone, whatever, maybe I could've gone to the NFL, maybe I could've done, or you don't have those thoughts. No, not at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Football thing, no. Uhm, that's good. Yeaah. That's good, cause there's some people that, you know, would have been, uh, invested, and, and from what you're saying, you weren't actually that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You had that realization. Was there anybody that surprised you? Anybody that like, you know, little Freddy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And of, and the weird thing is, and I'd say that this is probably


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would say the little bit of talent that I have, cause you know me, I'm not that talented in anything really. But what I was pretty talented at was being able to like work hard in a bunch of different things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like kinda like, I'm gonna do these things and they're all our time suckers and they all take a lot of effort and time but I'm gonna go ahead and do them all at the same time. And I think that's, it's hard to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and in some, in a lot of cases it's not even smart to do that. Because in a lot of cases, you know, if you're doing one thing and then you're doing something else and you're doing something else and you're doing something else, you're not prioritizing and executing. You're not focusing your resources properly to actually make anything happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In many cases is a negative to try and do a bunch of things at the same time. You know, I would say like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In natural ability that would not be, uh, would not be closed by any amount of work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there's a, there's a certain level that he is, and then I'd train with other world champions, and I'd be like, okay, yep, that person's better than me. Now, look, I could have gotten close to that gap more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm gonna just do jiu-jitsu all the time. Sure, I could close that gap more. For sure. 100%. Obviously. Uhm, but yeah, I think that's, that's me working hard. And not only that, uh, when it does come to prioritize and execute,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then two hours later I'm doing something else, I'm focused on that thing. And then two hours later I'm doing the other thing, I'm doing it. So I think the amount of focus that I would bring to the table when it came to pursuing goals was strong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I never, like, I never sacrificed one second of work in the SEAL teams for anything else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For nothing else like there was no way that I was gonna ever


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be like, oh, I gotta go. No, I never left work. Never, never, never was like, nope, I gotta go. That's why, you know, for many, many years, Dean and I trained at eight o'clock at night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you get to work at 6 o'clock in the morning, I know by 8 o'clock I can get to the mats. Because I was never gonna...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is being in a leadership role in the SEAL teams, which is going to trump all other things. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey man, like I realized when I was pretty young, I'm paying someone else's mortgage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I'm paying rent, I'm paying someone else's mortgage. How do you win that game? The answer is you do not win that game. You do not win that game. You do not win that game. You have to get in a position where you're putting money and equity into your future, not someone else's future. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the kind of thing where it's like, yes, that's a move I'm gonna make. And I'm gonna sacrifice to be able to do it. I was house poor my entire Navy career.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's like, there's no, that's, that's an ego, uh, you know, you see guys with their big trucks at the other end of the spectrum. You know, later, this is the deflator, like, hey, I'm rolling up in a 1997, the freaking window on the driver's side didn't work. So it's taped up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But uh, that's what, that's when I re- when I realized that these games were in play, that's when I started to be able to play the game. Whether that game is like, oh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Real estate, paying someone else's, paying rent is paying someone else's mortgage. That's not a winning game. That's not how you win that game. Am I always gonna need a house? Kind of. I'm always gonna need a place to live. I got a family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And believe me, there were times where I looked at, oh, I can live in, uh, you know, I was gonna do the boat, live aboard thing. A lot of people, a lot of teen guys do that. Like, I'll just live aboard a boat, whatever. Save that money. Cool, but again,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All you have to do is study that for 15 minutes and you realize that a boat is a depreciating asset. It doesn't get, it loses value over time. All of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like okay, you can get a car that's a, that's a classic or whatever, that's very rare.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, then once I bought a house, it was like, okay, well how long do I need to hold onto this house before I can buy another one? How long for another one? How long for another one?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When, again, when you look at all these different things that are happening, you can start to say, oh, I can at least see the game that's being played and I can get in the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With that, we will continue this thread. We'll see. Perhaps on the next podcast, I don't know. We'll review this one and see if there's a little bit more to add to it. If anyone has questions about this one, hit us up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I realized with these past couple podcasts. If I've got friends that I communicate with regularly and they don't realize this stuff, I know there's a lot of people that I haven't done a good job of communicating this to. I know that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, look, I cover a lot of military stuff, cover a lot of leadership stuff, but it's interesting when I talk about military and leadership things, I always think that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Correlations to life are so obvious, but they're not as obvious as you think they are. Not as obvious as I think they are. So this is one of those where hopefully people can see through pretty direct communication the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Concepts that we're talking about and everyone is susceptible to the problems that can occur if you don't know about the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, speaking of that, uhm, we got Jocko Fuel. We, we both, uhm, have been drinking a lot. You, you drink a milk during this? Yes. How was it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so get yourself some protein. It's really easy. You know, you first alerted me to the fact that if you're trying to get the amount of protein that you need,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 30 grams of protein is a, is a legitimate nudge. Yep. It's a legitimate, like, oh this is a, this is a legitimate boost to the protein intake.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go. So Malk, we got these beautiful drinks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We didn't call them energy drinks. I mean, they are called energy drinks, technically speaking, but they're not. Because energy drinks are bad for you. And this one's good for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we're in a totally different level. We're not in the game that they're in. They're in the game of poisoning you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Smarter, faster, stronger. JockoFuel.com. Get some of that. You can get it at Wawa. You can get it at Vitamin Shop. The Military Commissaries. Look, if you're, I got word the other day, that there was a Military Commissary that was lacking. So, hey, also check in the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In like the health and wellness section of stores. Sometimes you're looking in the energy drink section. Some stores put them in there. Sometimes they put them over in the, in the health and wellness. So check that out. Military Commerce Series, Hannaford, Dash Stores in Maryland, Wake Fern and ShopRite, Circle K in Florida, HEB.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shout out to all my people in Texas that are rolling into HEB and clearing shelves. Freaking outstanding. Thank you. Murphy's. Meyer. Up in the Midwest. So there you go. Jocko Fuel. Get some. Get some. Is what we like to say around here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why would you run out and buy a Model T Ford that was rusty when you could go out and legitimately buy a Cadillac?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause that's the difference between a normal gi and an origin gi. It's like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] While we're playing this game. I seen the last shirt locker. Shirt. No free dopamine. Just throwing that out there as a flag. Like, hey, I'm here, no free dopamine. If you're, if you're wearing that shirt, and you're looking at Instagram, and you're scrolling,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jocko Podcast on YouTube, Origin USA on YouTube, Psychological Warfare, Flipside Canvas, Dakota Meyer. I talked to him the other day, he's just getting after it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Down there in Texas, if you're in Texas, if you're in the Austin area, go to check out his gym. It's called Own the Dash. Yeah. Gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go. Uh, books. Got a bunch of books. Jocko Publishing. Holly McKay's book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I've written a bunch of books. So final spin, novel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's novel things happening with Final Spin. There's also some novel things happening with Warrior Kid. Look!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But let's just say we like the way things are going. Uh, written a bunch of books. So check those out. We also have Echelon Front. We solve.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Problems through leadership. All your problems are leadership problems and we will get them solved. Go to ashlandfront.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you need help there, if you want to come to one of our live events, we also have the Extreme Ownership Academy. We just redid this whole thing, revamped it. Actually, it's not even just a revamp. It's like a totally new, totally new, what is it, website? Is that what it's called? Totally new website. We got free courses on there to take. We got


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dave Burke and I did a course. A free course. Jamie Cochran and I did a course. So take those free courses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, go to ExtremeOwnership.com and you can check out some of the other content that we have. Cause look, this is what we're talking about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, all these games that we're talking about, you need to win in these games.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families, gold star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, mama Lee. She's got a charity organization. You heard her on the podcast. You heard about her son. If you want to donate, you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org. And also don't forget about Micah Fink who at present time,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is up there in the wilderness somewhere. He's got, uh, a small mountain lion in one hand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's got a bow and arrow on the other hand and he's in the pursuit of a grizzly bear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what he's doing right now. So go to heroesandhorses.org if you want to help him help our veterans. And also,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want to connect with us, we're on the interwebs. Echo Charles is on Twitter. He's back on Twitter. Mistakes were made. They've been amended.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Growth is re-re- respawning his life on Twitter. So check him out. He's at Echo Charles. He's on the gram. He's on the Facebook.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At Echo Charles, I'm at Jocko Wink. Listen, if you're gonna go on there though, just be careful. Cause there's free dopamine on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're really into surfing, but you're a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And thanks to our members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines who are playing the ultimate game around the world preserving freedom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thank you for your service and thanks also to our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service and all first responders. Thank you for preserving our way of life here at home and to everyone else out there. Don't lie to yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You bet, thanks for having me and I remember when you sent that to me and the impact that it made when I read that and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Obviously it's been 16 and a half years since we lost Mark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And still, when you read that, you know, I gotta, you know, bumping my throat and making sure I keep it together here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know how much you guys love Mark and I know how much that burden that you guys carry and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As you've heard me often say, you know, Mark was my kid who loved to give.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, I mean, he would spend hours. It wasn't a bag it and tag it, get out of here, check, mission accomplished.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He would spend hours looking for just the perfect gift.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he would be so stinking excited when he got that gift. And I remember at Christmas time, he'd bought me a set of gold flatware, not solid gold, but golden color.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, it matched my china perfectly. I had a gold rim around my white china. And he was so excited and he came home and he had it wrapped in the store. And he came home and he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mom, wait till you see what I got for you. I'm like, oh cool, thanks honey. And he goes,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You gotta open it now, mom. I'm like, no, put it under the tree. I don't even think open Christmas day if you don't put it under there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I realized after he passed away, he tried to explain the brotherhood thing to me before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm like, yeah, yeah, I get it. You're close to these guys, but as close as your brother you grew up with for 28 years? He's like, yeah, mom, that close.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I joked and I said, well, let me remind you, I didn't birth them, so they really can't be your brothers. And we left it at that. And I had, you know, five of his friends. I mean, you guys were all still deployed, but some of his swim buddy and some others.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That first week, you know, when he had been killed that were in our house and I saw, oh my gosh, they love Mark as much as we do and they're hurting just as bad as we are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I remember I think, you know, the first time officially that uhm, I had told the Charlie boys was I had met with President Bush in October of 2006.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, for the funeral was presented posthumously to us, but uhm, my final gift was you guys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We emailed back and forth. I got the team picture and I put names on it so I could learn the faces. So when you guys came home and uhm, that was Mark's final gift to me and I knew it was a special gift in the beginning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But man, it is a priceless gift that you guys have been.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so I was born in Greeley, Colorado, which is about an hour north of Denver. Uh, kinda came in difficult circumstances. My mom at 17 had got pregnant with me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's two sides that I've heard this story, so I don't know which one's true, but uhm, for whatever reason, my mom ended up not marrying my biological father. And, you know, back then, that was something that was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A terrible shame. And so you tried, you know, they sent the girls away for a while or.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But my grandmother wanting to protect my mom and have me not born out of wedlock, uhm, had my mom marry her boyfriend. So my mom's 17, this guy's 35.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My mom told a different personality than me, if that had been me, I'd be like, thank you very much, I'll raise this child by myself. I'm not marrying that old fart, you know, because at 17, that's a huge difference.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, um, it was just supposed to be, I guess, temporary and then have the marriage annulled afterwards, but that never happened. Uh, he was a police officer for the city of Greeley and, uh, I didn't know any different as a child.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, very weird. That's why I said it just, but again, I think with who they were, with the lack of education they had, what they thought would be a solution,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I'm the only child from my biological dad. I hate it when people ask these questions sometimes because it is a very dysfunctional family. But uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, I didn't know he wasn't my father until I was 16. So then they had twin sisters a year after I was born.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, within 12 hours of birth and one died in 24 hours of birth. So I didn't know them, you know, I knew growing up that there were twin sisters that had died.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then my mom and, uh, who I thought was my biological dad, had my brother, uh, Vance, who was two and a half years younger.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My mom went through a divorce when I was about 11 and then, uhm, got pregnant again and married that, uh, the father of that baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and I was kind of like a mom to him. I was 13 and my mom was, you know, trying to figure out life and she was struggling herself, you know, and so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I met my dad, he was six foot four, as he tells me on the phone call, and five foot on the other. He lost his leg in a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, tractor accident the year that I was born. And so, uhm, because of the circumstances my mom and I were fighting when, you know, she told me about him, she said, you don't even know who your dad is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and again, you go back to that hurt people, want to hurt other people when they're hurting. Of course, being a little bit of a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rebel in strong will, I said, do you? And of course it's a whack up across the side of the face, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was disrespectful and not called for, but you know, that's a sensitive conversation that you sit down and you prepare for a conversation to tell somebody something like that, not in the moment of anger when you're fighting. So it costs a lot of problems, you know, between my mom and I.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did connect with my dad and started to kind of get to know him and found out I had another brother.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, from the marriage he was in at the time, three siblings from his first marriage and then he married again and she had several kids. So there's, I'm either an only child or I come from a family of 13.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But again, I think that's, and I don't want people at all to, you know, have a pity party for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These, as you go back to Mark and how he was raised, these tough circumstances in my life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's just like when you guys are going through your training at Buds, they push you to the limit to see what you can endure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when you don't give up, when you persevere and when you have that attitude, man, that's what prepared me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the toughest day, August 2nd, you know, losing Mark, where then I knew I could still stand. I knew it would be tough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But uhm, those tragedies and trials that you go through in life. I love school, uhm, got good grades in school, was a cheerleader in school, so I had a blast. I love school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't have real big goals at the time. I did get several scholarships that I turned down because I just wanted to be a wife and a mother. Uhm, the school that I went to was, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, very poor part of town. I was one of the minorities. You know, it was primarily black and Hispanic in the school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And all I, everybody, I was one of the oldest at 18. I got married just weeks after I turned 18. I was one of the oldest to not, you know, latest to get married or have kids. That was what our problem was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is all my kid's dad, yes. So, marry the date.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, he was, you know, played on the football team. Uhm, he was two years older than me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't know what love was and I just wanted to be loved and so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, some of those things I interpreted, you know, sexual relationship as love, which it wasn't, you know, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was the first time he used to walk three miles to my house every night to come see me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My mom forbid me to marry him. Like I said, I'm strong-willed and don't forbid a strong-willed person to do something because that just pushes them to prove to you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And literally, as a rebel, that was the reason that I married, you know, intended for it to be for life, you know, really thought that that's what would happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, at the time, I don't remember what he was doing for a living. He had been in trouble, uhm, and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Back then, he, he was a Marine and was, because he'd been in trouble, they were like, here's your option. You go to jail or you go in the Marines.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That would have been in 72, so probably just recently got out of the Marines. And so we married, had my first son Christopher when I was 20 and had my daughter at 21.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, alcohol was something for him that was, he was an alcoholic. But uhm, Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde, when he drank and was very abusive and finally tried to kill me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And at 23 I said mm-mm. And I think for me, my self-esteem was so bad back then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I felt like I deserved it, and I don't feel ever that that's the circumstance. I think the only time a guy should ever hurt a woman is if she's trying to kill him, you know, and he's defending himself. But uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was, it was some tough, crazy times, you know, and I was going to persevere and show my mom I could make this work, but when it came to that point, he used to, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He'd act like in the beginning, like he's gonna throw a punch at me and he'd get right to my face and then he'd bring his hand up to his nose and itch his nose.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he did that to Christopher at three years old and I think that was for me the holy crap. Maybe I deserved it, but my kids don't. And so it was at that point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, then I finally said, and we separated, we were together and apart and together and apart and together and apart, but at that point I was like, I am done. This is not happening again. And because of all the violence in the marriage, the day that I filed for the divorce, it was final. And I found out two weeks later I was pregnant with Mark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they heard two heartbeats the entire time. This was not when they did ultrasounds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, to find out early on, you know, where the health of the baby or the sex of the baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What a blessing, and it's such a dark time in my life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you talked about his humor, you know, and the joy that he had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And even from a young age, such a smiley baby and giggly baby, and he would tell these knock-knock jokes. He was probably about four.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, laughing at himself. And so then he thought he was really good. But got class clown two years in a row.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But uhm, what a blessing and what a gift, you know, the struggles again, you know, that you go through in life, that we have a choice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we can let that defeat us or we can overcome that. And with the perseverance, that's, you know, what I chose to do. I wasn't going to quit. I wasn't going to give up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, I was working at, uh, started working for Tectonics, which is a manufacturer of uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I'm good at it, I was skilled, I could, you know, I think a kid of 10 took 40 hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or I feel like I'm making a difference in somebody's life and changing things. Had several jobs, you know. One point I was working three jobs, 96 hours a week. Was managing a bank during the day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and I'm not sure when we went through the divorce, I was still working at one of the banks, but uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had them either in, in home daycare or, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a child care center. Basically, the second job was to pay for the child care. So, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would say it was probably 28 when I got a little more goal-oriented. At that point, it was just survival.