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[Assistant] But it's the last item on the list that I want to focus on. It almost seems too obvious to be there. But at the same time, it has a bit of everything. It's basic yet complex. It straddles the line. And maybe that's why it's so important to all of us. What is it? Safety. Humans like to feel safe.


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[Assistant] Our pursuit of safety is core to who we are as people. It's not unique to humans for sure. Animals are very good at finding and building homes wherever they can. But it's undeniable that safety drives a lot of our decisions.


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[Assistant] And rightly so, we deserve to feel safe. One could argue that it's a subset of freedom. When we are fully in control of our own lives, a portion of that control will always be diverted towards safety.


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[Assistant] We find safety in many different places, though. We find it in groups of friends, because as every horror movie has taught us, there's safety in numbers, right? We find it in places like work, our schools, and religious buildings, although those are admittedly much less safe today than they were a generation ago.


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[Assistant] It's in our homes though that we find the most safety. We nest there, in a sense. We build a cocoon around ourselves that protects us from the weather, from outsiders, and from harm. But tragically, sometimes that's not enough.


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[Assistant] No one liked Andreas Gruber. They thought the old farmer was greedy, and the public perception of the man was that he was rude and cranky. He was an old, crusty farmer, and no one around him appreciated that very much.


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[Assistant] Gruber was 63 and his wife Cecilia was 72. They lived on their farm about 40 miles north of Munich between the small German towns of Ingolstadt and Schrobenhausen.


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[Assistant] It wasn't their farm, though. No, it belonged to their daughter, 35-year-old Victoria, who lived there on the farm with them along with her two children. Her daughter, Cecilia, was seven, and Joseph was two.


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[Assistant] And it was Joseph's birth that really got the neighbors talking. Victoria's husband Carl had left to serve in the First World War in 1914 while she was pregnant with their daughter. According to all reports, he died there in the trenches and never returned. So who father Joseph?


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[Assistant] Local gossip, fueled by a dislike of Andrea Scroober, claimed the boy was a product of incest between Victoria and her father. The birth certificate, though, simply listed the initials L.S., leaving the boy's paternity a mystery to wonder and whisper over.


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[Assistant] The farm provided ample privacy from the gossip, though. It sat in a large clearing in the thick German forest, close enough to nearby Kaifeck to be part of the village, yet far enough away to be outside the normal flow of life there.


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[Assistant] Hinter, as the Germans would say, the farm was Hinter, or behind the village of Kaifeck. So, most called it Hinter Kaifeck.


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[Assistant] They still interacted with the village, though. Young Cecilia attended school there six days a week, the postman delivered mail to the farm regularly, and a local woman even lived with the Grubers as their maid.


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[Assistant] From everything I've read about the family, they seem to be nothing more than ordinary. Sure, they were broken in certain ways. Victoria's lost husband, Andreas' reputation as a greedy crank were hard to miss. But overall, they were just one more German family trying to do their best to get by.


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[Assistant] In the autumn of 1921, the Gruber's maid quit her job there on the farm. She claimed, of all things, that the farm was haunted. She had heard noises when no one else should have been around. She had noticed items that had been moved. Items that no one else would admit to. She never felt alone.


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[Assistant] It took a while to find a replacement, and in the meantime, winter arrived. Life on the farm became more insular. There were no crops to tend to, so the groobers cared for their animals and stayed warm.


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[Assistant] But little things were beginning to happen that caught their attention. Things that shouldn't be happening. And it made them wonder if maybe, just maybe, their old maid had been right.


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[Assistant] They began to hear those same noises up in the attic. Andreas even found a newspaper in the house that he had no memory of buying. When he asked his daughter and wife, they were just as baffled. And then, one of the house keys went missing. It was unsettling, to say the least.


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[Assistant] In late March of 1922, though, Andreas noticed the most unusual thing. He'd been outside the house to fetch something, perhaps firewood or check on the exterior of the house. The night before had given them another fresh layer of snow on the ground, so perhaps he needed to inspect the roof. We don't really know.


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[Assistant] But as he walked from the house to the barn, Andreas claimed he saw footprints in the snow. They started at the edge of the forest and covered the distance between the trees and the house, ending there.


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[Assistant] Perhaps a traveler passed through in the night. Maybe a local had been walking through the snow and gotten lost. That happened from time to time. But what was odd about the tracks to Andreas was that they didn't go back. They just ended there.


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[Assistant] We know this because Gruber himself told some of the locals while he was in town the next day.


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[Assistant] He was clearly disturbed by the things he had seen, but none of his neighbors had experienced anything similar. And that was the last time anyone saw the old farmer alive.


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[Assistant] The first clue that anything odd was going on, at least to the people of Kaifec, was when little Titilia failed to show up for school on Saturday, April 1st. The next day, the entire family was absent from church, where they attended, pardon the pun, religiously. Titilia missed school on Monday as well.


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[Assistant] Finally, when the postman arrived on Tuesday, he found Monday's mail still on the porch where he'd left it. This drew his suspicion, and he mentioned it back in the village. The people there put the pieces together and decided something had to be amiss. So later that day, a group of neighbors gathered together and they quickly set off to visit the farm.


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[Assistant] You know how muffled and quiet it can get outside when there's a lot of snow? As if the sounds of the world around you have been muted and hushed? I imagine that those men were keenly aware of that unnatural silence standing there outside the Gruber farmhouse that day.


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[Assistant] One of the men shouted out for Andreas, or anyone else in the house, to come out and speak with them. They just wanted to make sure everyone was safe and well. But no one answered.


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[Assistant] Just more of that muted snow-covered silence.


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[Assistant] Not giving up, one of the neighbors, a local man named Lawrence Schlittenbauer, led the group to the barn. It was daylight, so perhaps Andreas could be found working in there with the animals. But when they opened the door, they were greeted by a grisly sight.


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[Assistant] There on the straw-covered floor lay the bloody bodies of Andreas, his wife and daughter, and young Cecilia.


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[Assistant] It was clear that something horrible had happened to the family, and Schlittenbauer quickly walked from the barn to the house, which were connected by a door, and inside he found more bloodshed.


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[Assistant] Maria Baumgarten, the new maid who had started work on the farm the previous day, lay dead in her own bed.


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[Assistant] Little Joseph, last to be found, had met the same fate. It was a scene of devastation and gore, and it left the men stunned.


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[Assistant] Within a matter of hours, investigators from Munich arrived to go over the scene and gather evidence. They wanted to piece together what had happened, to discover the story and find clues that might point to the person or people responsible. What they did uncover though, was far more disturbing than answers.


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[Assistant] It appeared that each of the adults in the barn had been led there one at a time. Whoever the killer had been, they had appeared to call each person into the barn alone, where they executed them with a farm tool known as a mattock, a sort of pickaxe used for cutting.


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[Assistant] Each blow to the head was powerful and deadly, and each victim most likely died instantly.


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[Assistant] The bodies inside the house had the same type of wounds. Maria and Joseph were found in pools of their own blood, their skulls crushed by their attacker. As far as the police were concerned, whoever wielded the weapon knew how to use it, and they did so without hesitation. This was cold-blooded murder, without a doubt.


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[Assistant] Other aspects of the crime didn't seem to line up with logic. For one, there seemed to be no motive behind the actions of the killer.


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[Assistant] It was known to a few in the village that, just weeks before, Victoria had withdrawn all of her savings, borrowed more from her dead husband's sister, and brought the cash home. She told people that she planned to invest in the farm. She even made a large 700 mark donation to the village church.


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[Assistant] All of the remaining money was still there in the house. The killer hadn't taken it, nor had they taken any of the other valuables that filled the farmhouse. Nothing was stolen. Whoever had called the groobers into their barn, whoever had swung the pickaxe and ended all of their lives, they weren't interested in money.


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[Assistant] Another detail that seemed odd was the condition of the house and farm.


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[Assistant] In most instances, a killer will flee the scene after the crime has been committed. But here, there were signs to the contrary. The animals in the barn appeared to have been fed and watered throughout the weekend. And not by an amateur either. Whoever had tended them, knew his way around a farm.


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[Assistant] But most disturbing of all were the reports from neighbors that smoke had been seen rising from the chimney of the farmhouse all throughout the weekend. Food had been eaten, and one of the beds had been slept in. It was hard to believe, but the facts didn't lie.


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[Assistant] Question, of course, was a simple one. Who could do such a thing? But this was 1922. CSI wasn't a thing that really existed yet. There was no DNA analysis available to investigators. Even fingerprint identification was too young to have reached the farmlands of German Bavaria.


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[Assistant] But even if there had been better tools, there were other obstacles to uncovering the truth.


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[Assistant] The local men who initially stumbled upon the bodies, led by Lawrence Schlittenbauer, had disturbed much of the crime scene.


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[Assistant] While the maid and young Joseph had each been covered with cloth by the killer, the bodies in the barn had been stacked like lumber. On top of this macabre pile, the killer had placed an old door, and then hay had been scattered all over it in an attempt to hide it.


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[Assistant] So when Schlittenbauer entered the barn with the others, he actually lifted the door and began to move the bodies, making a full and accurate investigation impossible. According to those who watched him, Schlittenbauer lifted and moved the corpses with no emotion or hesitation, as if the sight of it all didn't bother him.


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[Assistant] Or was it new to him? And it was that, along with some other subtle clues, that quickly moved him to the top of the list of suspects.


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[Assistant] Well, he told one of the men that he moved the bodies because he was looking for his son.


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[Assistant] Think back for a moment. Remember the questionable parentage of young Joseph, whose birth certificate simply listed one L.S. as the father? Numerous neighbor testimonies made it clear that that man was Lawrence Schlittenbauer. L.S.


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[Assistant] And that went a long way toward explaining why he led the men from the barn into the house. He'd been looking for his son, Joseph.


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[Assistant] But according to some of the men with him that day, the door between the barn and the kitchen had been locked. They knew that because Schlittenbauer pulled a key from his pocket and unlocked the door, which was more than a little curious, seeing as how Gruber had mentioned in town that one of his house keys had gone missing.


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[Assistant] And one final bit. The family dog was seen by the postman on the day before, where it had been tied to a corner of the barn. When the men arrived on Tuesday though, they found it in the barn, wounded but alive. When it saw Schlittenbauer, the animal barked uncontrollably.


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[Assistant] All of the clues seemed odd and out of place. They make your mind perk up and feel like something deeper was going on. But at face value, they prove nothing. And that's the frustrating part. The dog might have just been barking because of the bodies. Schlittenbauer might have had a key simply because he was the Gruber's closest neighbor.


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[Assistant] Like I said, these clues were subtle, and that's why he was never formally charged with a crime.


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[Assistant] As for motive, some people believe that Victoria had sued Lawrence over alimony, and the man had refused.


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[Assistant] Clearly, Victoria needed money shortly before the murders, as her bank withdrawal suggested. But historians are doubtful. The most likely reality they believe is that Joseph's father was none other than his grandfather, Andreas. And the arrangement with Lawrence was simply an effort to save face in the village.


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[Assistant] But alternative theories have also been suggested. There are some who believe that Victoria's husband Carl did not, in fact, die during World War I. It seems that nobody was ever recovered or sent home, and a friend of Carl's even testified later to seeing him alive in the mid-1920s.


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[Assistant] Some people wonder, could Carl have had a hand in the murders, perhaps out of anger toward Victoria's relationship with Schlittenbauer while he was away at war?


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[Assistant] I've even read another theory that claimed Andreas had been waiting for an important letter of some kind. I can't find more than a mention of it. But what if the killer and the letter were connected? That might explain why he stayed in the house for a few days after the murders.


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[Assistant] He'd been waiting to intercept whatever the letter contained. And one last thought.


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[Assistant] By all accounts, the killer had been in or around the Gruber home many times before the events of March 31st. The Gruber's former maid had quit her job because she felt like the place was haunted. There had been an unrecognized newspaper, the odd noises, the missing key.


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[Assistant] Weeks and weeks of unusual activity that eventually led up to the day of the murders.


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[Assistant] The day, mind you, that the new maid started working there.


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[Assistant] Did her arrival upset the plans of whoever it was that seemed to be stalking the Gruber family? Did she see him and pay for it with her life?


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[Assistant] Hinterkaifeck has the feel of a cabin in the woods. The centerpiece of many a horror film and novel. A place of retreat, far from the demands and prying eyes of the outside world. Where we could go and get away from it all. A place where we can find safety in the middle of an unsafe wilderness. A home away from home.


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[Assistant] And that's how fear works. It sits in the dark corner at the edge of our minds and watches. We know it's not going to step out into the light, but we can feel it glaring at us from the shadows.


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[Assistant] I can't help but wonder if the Grubers ever had that sensation during those last few months. If maybe there had been times when Andreas just couldn't shake the feeling that someone was watching him.


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[Assistant] Did Victoria have moments when she felt like she wasn't alone?


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[Assistant] We'll never know the answers to those questions, unfortunately. One more tiny mystery.


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[Assistant] The physician who performed the autopsies on all six victims had their heads removed and sent to Munich for further study. Some reports claim that a clairvoyant was part of that research, but I can't find proof of that.


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[Assistant] Their bodies were buried nearby in what is now modern day Weidhofen. But their skulls remained in Munich and were eventually lost in the chaos of World War II.


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[Assistant] Today the farm in the woods is little more than a memory. All that is left today is a small memorial. But over the year that followed the tragedy there, it stood empty, like a crypt in the middle of that clearing in the forest, a constant reminder to the neighbors who passed by,


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[Assistant] Of the people they lost and of the violence that had visited their small village.


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[Assistant] That might be why they finally tore it down in 1923. Maybe they couldn't stand to look at it again. Maybe it needed upkeep that required going inside and no one was willing to do that. Maybe they just wanted to move on and forget.


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[Assistant] Whatever the true reason was, it was only after the farm was torn down that the murder weapon was finally discovered.


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[Assistant] One of the men found it among the debris at the top of the pile, mixed in with items that had been in storage.


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[Assistant] The murders on that small Hinterkaifeck farm are fascinating to us because of their brutality and uniqueness. The idea that a killer might settle in and live in the scene of their crime for a while. Well, it's unsettling and compelling.


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[Assistant] But the undercurrent beneath it all is even more attractive. The fact that it remains unsolved. Because most of us hate incomplete puzzles and challenges that haven't been surmounted.


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[Assistant] Which is why I've pulled together one more mystery to throw at you. One that has its own kind of beauty at the center.


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[Assistant] Stick around through this brief sponsor break to hear all about it.


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[Assistant] Mary was an only child. Born in 1820, her mother ran a boarding house, and her father had worked on a steamship. New York City was a busy place for ships, after all, and that kept him very busy as well, putting food on their table.


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[Assistant] But when she was 17, her life blew up. First, her father's steamship literally exploded, leaving her grieving mother at a loss for how to make ends meet. So Mary went looking for a job, and eventually landed employment as a clerk in a nearby tobacco shop, which is where the second explosion happened. Celebrity.


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[Assistant] This is wild generalization and assumption, I know. But I'm guessing the typical tobacco shop employee back then was a bit more old and grizzled from all that smoke.


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[Assistant] Mary, being young and pretty, clearly stood out and that attention brought in more customers, which earned her a bigger paycheck.


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[Assistant] I don't want that to be tossed aside as a small detail, though. You see, Mary became something of a celebrity as a result, with customers coming from all over just to glimpse the woman many called the beautiful cigar girl.


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[Assistant] There are reports of famous people, including Sleepy Hollow author Washington Irving, actually making the trip to the shop just to confirm the legend of her beauty.


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[Assistant] And look, I know it's creepy, and I like to think folks today would handle it better. But then again, platforms like Instagram and TikTok might suggest that, no, it probably would play out the same today. Make of that what you will.


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[Assistant] Oh, and one last bit of context. Mary was so popular within the first year of taking her job at the tobacco shop that some historians believe that she partnered with the New York Sun to create some fake drama by going missing for three days in October of 1838.


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[Assistant] Of course, Mary resurfaced, life went on, and her fame increased. As did the New York Sun's paper sales.


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[Assistant] But almost three years later, in July of 1841, Mary's story took a dark turn. On Sunday the 25th, she told her fiance that she was headed out of the city for a quick visit to see family in nearby New Jersey. She planned to be back at work the next day.


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[Assistant] But when she wasn't, folks started wondering where Mary, the beautiful cigar girl, had gone.


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[Assistant] Maybe the weather had delayed her return. Maybe she ran away from the attention and fame to start a less public life somewhere else. Or maybe something more dreadful had happened.


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[Assistant] On Wednesday the 28th, some men in Hoboken, New Jersey spotted something floating in the water of the Hudson. Grabbing a boat, they rode out to see what it was, and then quickly called the police. It was the body of Mary Rogers.


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[Assistant] As you might imagine, the press had a field day. News of her murder spread quickly throughout the nation, writing a final dark chapter in a story everyone had loved so much.


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[Assistant] But there were also theories. And of course, this being 1841, and an era long before things like DNA evidence, all of it would remain just that. Theories.


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[Assistant] I wish I could tell you that they managed to track down Mary's killer, but that's not an option here. Her death quickly became one of the most famous unsolved murders in New York City, and because of that, people really never stopped wondering.


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[Assistant] What really happened? Who was to blame? Where was the killer now? It didn't help that her fiance took his own life shortly after. In fact, he traveled to that spot on the river in Hoboken to do it. Some saw it as an outpouring of grief. Others, of course, saw a killer taking the easy way out.


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[Assistant] The only thing we know for sure is that we'll never know for sure.


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[Assistant] One man wanted to find the answers though, and he believed it was just a puzzle that needed worked out logically. He had a way with detail that was admired by many.


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[Assistant] Sherlock Holmes but with much less action and drama. So to work through the mystery, he wrote it all out.


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[Assistant] But this guy's job wasn't writing for newspapers or scientific journals. No, he was better known for make believe. So in order to properly go through this exercise in logic and problem solving, he changed Mary's details just enough to turn her into a new creation. A fictional character, but not enough to obscure the details of the crime. He was looking for a real answer, after all.


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[Assistant] This episode of Lore was researched, written, and produced by me, Aaron Manke, with music by Chad Lawson. Lore is much more than just a podcast. There's a book series available in bookstores and online, and two seasons of the television show on Amazon Prime Video. Check them both out if you want more Lore in your life.


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[Assistant] I also make and executive produce a whole bunch of other podcasts, all of which I think you'd enjoy. My production company, Grim and Mild, specializes in shows that sit at the intersection of the dark and the historical.


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[Assistant] You can learn more about all of our shows and everything else going on over in one central place, grimandmild.com. And you can also follow this show on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Just search for Lore podcast, all one word, and then click that follow button. And when you do, say hi. I like it when people say hi. And as always, thanks for listening.


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[Assistant] In March of 2014, a hiker in Lithuania stumbled upon a warm spring that was melting the ice on a frozen pond.


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[Assistant] It's not unusual to find things like this, but he was curious. I would be too. The pond was frozen over, but there was a nice window into the still waters beneath. I have to think any one of us would have leaned in for a closer look.


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[Assistant] When he did though, he witnessed something that his mind had trouble processing.


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[Assistant] It appeared to be a living creature but it was unlike anything he had ever seen.


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[Assistant] Thankfully, we live in a very connected, very digital age, and he used his phone to take a short video.


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[Assistant] I have no idea what the creature was or if it was even a living thing. And I'm not going to discuss it today or tell you more stories about similar sightings because there aren't any. It was a one-off, a random occurrence that had never happened before and would probably never happen again.


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[Assistant] Some stories are like that. Sometimes we bump into something new with no history or record of events to lend it pedigree or validity. Those stories frustrate me. Other stories though, go deep.


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[Assistant] Some legends have been told for centuries, some creatures have been sighted by hundreds of people over the years, and each new sighting lends credence to the story. Even if it's all made up or just one big misunderstanding, these layers upon layers of story seem to somehow give life to the creatures they describe.


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[Assistant] When we find these deep wells of folklore, our minds are presented with a challenge.


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[Assistant] Do the centuries of first-hand accounts serve as proof, or do they highlight our incredible, cross-cultural, nearly genetic predisposition toward gullibility?


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[Assistant] Few places challenge us to such a degree as the Pine Barrens of southern New Jersey.


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[Assistant] When we think of the East Coast of the United States, we think of urban sprawl, of endless strings of bedroom communities looping around massive metropolitan centers. New York City, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington DC,


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[Assistant] All of these places are symbols of humanity's inability to leave an undeveloped area untouched.


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[Assistant] What most people don't know, however, is that there's a huge expanse of forested land cutting through the southern part of New Jersey that simply boggles the mind.


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[Assistant] It's called the Pine Barrens, and it's the largest undeveloped area of land in the mid-Atlantic seaboard. Seriously, this place is massive. There are 1.1 million acres of forest, and beneath it all are underground aquifers that are estimated to contain over 17 trillion gallons of the purest drinking water in the country.


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[Assistant] As you might imagine, such a massive area of untouched land comes with its own treasure chest of mythical creatures and frightening folklore. The local Lenape tribe of Native Americans tell stories about the Manitututek, the wood dwarves who live in the forest, a local version of the global little people legend.


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[Assistant] There are other creatures rumored to exist in the pines as well, including Big Red Eye, the Hoboken Monkey Man, Undocumented Species of Large Cats, the Cape May Sea Serpent, and the Lizard Man of Great Meadows. New Jersey, you see, is full of monsters.


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[Assistant] But hovering over the mall like a patriarch perched at the top of an ornate family tree is something that has haunted the Pines for nearly 300 years. The original story goes something like this.


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[Assistant] In 1735, one Mrs. Shroud of Leeds Point, New Jersey became pregnant with her 13th child. According to the legend, Mrs. Shroud secretly wished that this child would be a devil or demon child. Sure enough, when the child was born, it was misshapen and malformed.


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[Assistant] Mrs. Shroud kept the deformed child in her home, sheltered from the curious eyes of the community.


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[Assistant] But on a dark and stormy night, because all bad things only ever happen on dark and stormy nights, of course, the child's arms turned to wings and it escaped, flying up and out through the chimney. And Mrs. Shroud never saw her devil child again.


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[Assistant] Now, that's one story. Or one version of it, at least. A more prominent legend identifies the mother as Mrs. Leeds, not a Mrs. Shroud from Leeds, who was from the Burlington area of New Jersey.


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[Assistant] Mrs. Leeds, according to the legend, had dabbled in witchcraft despite her Quaker beliefs. And this hobby of hers made the old women attending her birth more than a little uneasy.


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[Assistant] To their relief, though, a handsome baby boy was born that stormy night, and he was quickly delivered to Mrs. Leeds' arms. And that was when he transformed. His human features vanished, his body elongated, and even his skin changed.


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[Assistant] The baby's head became horse-like and hooves replaced his feet. Bat-like wings sprouted from his shoulders and he grew to the size of a man.


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[Assistant] Other stories have persisted through the centuries. One claimed that the monster was the result of a treasonous relationship between a colonial Leeds Point girl and a British soldier, while another story tells of a Romani curse.


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[Assistant] There seems to have been no town or county in the Pines area without its own version of the story. And though many of them vary wildly, one thing unites them all. The descriptions of the creature.


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[Assistant] In all the stories, it was some sort of hybrid or mutation of a normal animal. Most of the stories describe it in the same terms. Head like a horse, wings like a bat, clawed hands, long serpent tail, and legs like a deer. In some accounts, the creature is almost dragon-like.


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[Assistant] Coincidentally, the Lenape tribes refer to the Pines area as Papuessing, a word that means the place of the dragon.


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[Assistant] Swedish explorers even named the area Drake Kill. Kill being the Dutch word for river, and Drake meaning dragon.


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[Assistant] Whatever the truth is behind the origins of this legend, and whatever its core features really are, the people of the Pines were united in what they call it.


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[Assistant] The Jersey Devil. And this devil was more than just a story that was passed from person to person. Over the centuries that followed, countless eyewitness reports surfaced that pointed toward one overwhelming conclusion. The Jersey Devil was real.


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[Assistant] What makes The Jersey Devil so special is the quality of many of the sightings. Individuals with no need to make up stories, whether for political or professional reasons, all seem to have found the courage to report incidents that would normally be laughable.


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[Assistant] Stephen Decatur was a United States naval officer who was known for as many naval victories in the early 1800s. Decatur was, and still is, a very well-respected figure in American history.


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[Assistant] There have been five warships named after him. He's had his own stamp through the U.S. Postal Service. And in the late 1800s, it was his face that graced the $20 bill rather than Andrew Jackson's.


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[Assistant] According to the legend, Decatur visited the Hanover Iron Works in Burlington, New Jersey in the early 1800s. The facility there manufactured cannonballs, something Decatur was very familiar with, and he had arrived to test some of the product.


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[Assistant] On this occasion, Decatur was said to have been on the firing range, operating a cannon. While there, he witnessed a strange creature flying overhead. It was unlike anything he had ever seen before, and like a true American, he aimed a cannon at it. He fired, and the shot was said to be true, striking the creature in mid-air.


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[Assistant] Mysteriously though, nothing happened. The creature continued on uninterrupted.


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[Assistant] Another early famous resident of New Jersey was Joseph Bonaparte, the brother of none other than Napoleon Bonaparte. Napoleon had appointed his brother King of Spain in 1808, but Joseph abdicated just five years later before moving to the United States.


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[Assistant] He took up residence in a large estate called Breeze Point near the Pine Barrens and lived there for nearly two decades. One of his favorite pastimes was to go hunting in the pines. On one of those hunting trips, the former King of Spain was in the woods near his home when he discovered some strange tracks in the snow.


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[Assistant] They looked like the tracks of a donkey, but there were only two feet present, not four.


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[Assistant] Bonaparte commented that one of the feet appeared slightly larger than the other, as if deformed in some way. He followed the tracks into a clearing, but stopped when the prints vanished. It was as if the animal had simply taken flight.


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[Assistant] As he was turning to leave, Bonaparte heard a strange hissing sound. He glanced back, only to find himself standing face to face with a large creature.


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[Assistant] He described it as having bat-like wings, the head of a horse, and it stood on thin hind legs. Before he could remember to use his rifle, the creature hissed one last time, flapped its wings and flew off into the sky.


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[Assistant] He later described the events to a local friend, who simply smiled and congratulated the man. You've just seen the famous Jersey Devil, he told him.


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[Assistant] In the early 1840s, a handful of farmers began to report the death of livestock on their land. In most cases, tracks were found, but they cannot be identified. Others claim to have heard high-pitched screams in the pines, a sound that would forever after be connected with the Jersey Devil.


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[Assistant] By 1900, belief in the Jersey Devil was widespread and stronger than ever. Nearly everyone in the area believed that something otherworldly lived inside the pines, and any time disaster or death entered their lives, they cast blame at this creature.


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[Assistant] But some had also begun to do the math. If this monster really was the child of Mrs. Shroud, that was born in 1735, then it was very, very old.


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[Assistant] That the Jersey Devil was too old to carry on terrorizing the people of the Pines.


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[Assistant] In the early morning hours of January 16th, a man named Thack Cozens was out for a walk under the stars in Woodbury, New Jersey. A sound caught his attention and he glanced up, only to see a large dark shape fly past. Cozens recalled noticing that the creature's eyes glowed bright red.


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[Assistant] 26 miles away that same early morning in the town of Bristol, Pennsylvania, a number of people reported seeing a similar creature.


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[Assistant] One witness, a police officer named James Sackville, actually fired his handgun at it, without effect. E.W. Minster, the town postmaster, also saw the flying thing, and according to him, it also unleashed a high-pitched scream.


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[Assistant] When the sun rose that morning, several people reported finding strange hoof prints in the snow. No one, though, could identify the kind of creature who would leave such tracks.


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[Assistant] Just one day later, on the 17th, unusual hoof prints were found in the snow outside the home of the Loudons in Burlington, New Jersey. The tracks surrounded their trash can, which had been knocked over and rummaged through.


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[Assistant] Other people found tracks on their rooftops. Trails were followed into streets where the tracks would simply vanish. The Burlington police tried tracking the creature with the help of hunting dogs, but the dogs refused to follow the trails.


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[Assistant] At 2.30 in the morning on Tuesday the 19th, a Mr. and Mrs. Evans were asleep in bed in Gloucester, New Jersey, when a scream awoke them. They both climbed out of bed and approached their window, and then stopped, paralyzed by fear.


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[Assistant] There, on the roof of their shed, stood a creature unlike anything they had ever laid eyes on. According to Mr. Evans, it was roughly three feet tall and had the head of a horse. It walked on two legs and held smaller claw-like hands against its chest. The leathery wings were still present, as was the long serpentine tail.


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[Assistant] A couple managed to frighten the creature away after watching it for nearly 10 minutes. Later that day, professional hunters were called in to attempt to track the creature, but they had no success.


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[Assistant] The following day brought more of the same. A Burlington police officer was the first to see the creature, followed by a local minister. A hunting party was formed to track the beast and claimed they watched it fly toward Morristown. In Morristown, it was seen at the Mount Carmel Cemetery.


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[Assistant] From there it was seen to fly toward riverside, and there hoof prints were found in a cluster around a dead puppy.


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[Assistant] A day later, an entire trolley full of passengers in Clementon watched a winged creature circle above them. The Blackhawk Social Club reported their own sighting, and when a Collingswood fireman saw one up close, he turned his hose on the creature, chasing it off.


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[Assistant] Later that night a woman named Mrs. Sorbinski in Camden heard a noise outside in the dark. She grabbed her broom and stepped outside, only to find the mysterious beast trying to catch her dog. Mrs. Sorbinski beat at the creature with her broom until it released the dog and flew away.


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[Assistant] When a crowd gathered as a result of her screaming, they all claimed to see the creature off in the distance. The mob charged toward the thing, and a police officer even fired shots. But whatever it was, managed to escape into the sky.


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[Assistant] The creature made a few more random appearances across northern New Jersey during late January of that year.


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[Assistant] But it was one final sighting in February that leaves many questions to be answered.


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[Assistant] An employee of a local electric railroad was out working on the tracks when he saw what he described later as the Jersey Devil flying overhead. He claimed to have watched the creature fly into one of the overhead electrical wires, generating an explosion large enough to melt the metal tracks directly underneath. A search was made, but no body was found.


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[Assistant] Fear of the unknown. Fear of the dark. Fear of what might be lurking out there in the trees. Humanity has feared those things for millennia. But perhaps the people of the pines feared something more basic. More fundamental than whatever might be waiting for them in the darkness. Perhaps they simply feared being alone.


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[Assistant] There is nothing worse than experiencing a loss you can't explain, or noises you can't identify, especially if you are in a new and strange place. The sources might very well be real and normal, but in the setting and culture of their day, the unexplainable only serve to highlight the loneliness of those early settlers of New Jersey.


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[Assistant] The Barons had a way of giving permission to fear the unknown. They still do to this day.


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[Assistant] When settlers discovered rare or unusual plants and animals inside those woods, it became easy to take it one step further. Demon children, creatures dancing on rooftops, livestock and pets being attacked. We explain our existence with fantasy because sometimes that's the only thing that can help us cope.


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[Assistant] In 1957, some employees for the New Jersey Department of Conservation found a partial animal corpse in the pines.


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[Assistant] It was a mangled collection of feathers, mammal bones, and long hind legs that appeared to have been burned or scorched.


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[Assistant] It might be logical to assume that the creature that flew into the electrical wires in 1909 had literally crashed and burned, only to be discovered decades later. It might, in fact, sound like the creature was gone for good.


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[Assistant] But in 1987, an unidentified woman in Vineland, New Jersey reported that her German shepherd had been killed during the night.


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[Assistant] The dog had been torn to pieces and dragged over 25 feet from the end of its chain. The only evidence the authorities could find around the body were hoof prints.


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[Assistant] The Jersey Devil is one of those iconic American monster stories. Partly because of the details. I mean, who doesn't love a creature that seems like a mashup of a few different common animals, right? But I also think there's one more thing that helped bring it to life. Location.


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[Assistant] New Jersey's vast Pine Barrens and its early history seem like the perfect breeding ground for a legend of this power. But it's not the only story to come out of the Garden State. And if you love the bizarre and unusual, I have one more tale to tell. Stick around through this brief sponsor break to hear all about it.


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[Assistant] They had a guest in their new home and they weren't quite sure what to do about it.


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[Assistant] Frank Graceberry and his family had moved into the house in 1972. It was in a beautifully wooded area of northwestern New Jersey, just east of Philadelphia, known as Rancocas Woods. We don't know much about the house itself, but the events of 1972 have left more than enough memories for any family.


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[Assistant] After moving in, the family immediately noticed that the lights flickered and noises filled the space without any visible explanation. Objects would be found in new locations, moved by someone, but who


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[Assistant] Well, that was the question. None of the children confessed to it, and it was certainly not Frank or his wife Mary. Things were just moving.


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[Assistant] And that wasn't all. Early on in their time there in the house, everyone noticed just how cold the dining room got when they sat down to eat. It was almost as if there was a cold wind blowing through the room, which might not be unusual if all the doors and windows weren't closed.


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[Assistant] What happened next is a bit mysterious, and I don't have a good explanation for it, but hey, we're all along for the ride, so let's just roll with it, shall we?


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[Assistant] At some point during one of those chilly dinner gatherings, someone managed to figure out that they could stop the cold wind if they set an extra place at the table.


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[Assistant] It was almost as if there was someone else in the house. Someone they couldn't see but who really wanted to be noticed and they had simply been begging to be included.


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[Assistant] Which, of course, caught the curiosity of Frank and Mary, who wanted to learn more. So they hired a team of mediums to come to their home and do an investigation.


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[Assistant] The graceberries probably went into it with low expectations. They might have expected to have their suspicions confirmed that yes, there was a ghost in the house. Maybe they even expected a few details that gave this ghostly visitor some depth, such as a name or a time period.


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[Assistant] But what the investigation uncovered was so much more rich and detailed, and it was probably more than a little difficult to believe.


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[Assistant] The spirit in the house, according to the mediums, was that of a young Revolutionary War soldier. His name was John Dobson, and he'd come from a wealthy plantation family in Virginia. Dobson's role in the war, it seems, was serving as a courier for the American military. And that's what led to his death.


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[Assistant] The story, at least as it was related to the family by their hired mediums, was that Dobson had been given a message for General George Washington in November of 1776.


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[Assistant] It was an unusually cold and harsh winter and that made for dangerous travel. Sometime during his journey toward Valley Forge, he camped for the night and died from exposure.


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[Assistant] The place where his body lay undiscovered, eventually becoming buried under the ever-changing life of the forest, was right on the land now owned by Frank and his family. In fact, according to the medium, the house itself had been built on top of it, and that, they were told, was the source of Dobson's unrest.


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[Assistant] The family was skeptical, of course. But curiosity is a lot like the scent of freshly baked apple pie. Once you catch it, it's hard to let go. So they reached out to historians in the area to see if they could track down more details.


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[Assistant] After all, they had a name, a rough date, and military occupation. Surely that was enough to uncover more information.


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[Assistant] And it was. It turns out that there were not one, but four John Dobsons serving in the Revolutionary War from the region of the Virginia colony. And the military did indeed run a courier service in New Jersey.


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[Assistant] It wasn't definitive, but it certainly looked as if they might be on the right track. Or of course, it could all be fantasy.


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[Assistant] So life eventually went on. Sure, they kept setting an extra place at the table. And yes, things in the house weren't ever really normal. Items would move to new locations. Those lights kept flickering. If it was a ghost and that ghost did have a message, he didn't seem to have given up.


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[Assistant] Then, one day, long after they had moved on, the youngest child, Polly, was overheard humming an unusual song while she was playing with her toys. When Mary stopped and asked Polly what song it was, the little girl told her it was called, The World Turned Upside Down.


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[Assistant] And it was a significant song too. It seems that when British General Cornwallis surrendered to General George Washington on October 19th of 1781, his troops played that song on their last march.


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[Assistant] Names and dates and personal details were all intriguing pieces of information. But this, a song no child should know, one from the very same time and place as the story of John Dobson, was a lot harder to deny.


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[Assistant] Frank and his wife took it as proof, however bizarre and unconventional it might have been, that their ghostly roommate was more than just a story.


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[Assistant] Things didn't go so well for the ghost after that. His plan had been to get the house moved off his gravesite, but it turns out he was just too benign of a roommate, too gentle and easily avoided. Even that long forgotten song was perceived as something enjoyable by the family.


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[Assistant] In the end, his other worldly plan failed. The family didn't change a thing about the house or its location, and neither did any of the owners who came after them.


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[Assistant] This episode of Lore was researched, written, and produced by me, Aaron Manke, with music by Chad Lawson.


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[Assistant] Lore is much more than just a podcast. There's a book series available in bookstores and online, and two seasons of the television show on Amazon Prime Video. Check them both out if you want more lore in your life.


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[Assistant] I also make and executive produce a whole bunch of other podcasts, all of which I think you'd enjoy. My production company, Grim and Mild, specializes in shows that sit at the intersection of the dark and the historical.


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[Assistant] You can learn more about all of our shows and everything else going on over in one central place, grimandmild.com. And you can also follow this show on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Just search for lore podcast, all one word, and then click that follow button. And when you do say hi, I like it when people say hi. And as always, thanks for listening.


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[Assistant] Well, the phone is different. Okay. Because a doodle is mindless. The phone takes your attention. Okay. But I get what you're saying. Okay. It hasn't bothered me. It's just since we're talking about it.


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[Assistant] We're all addicted to our phones. I'm addicted to my phone. Your wife's addicted to our phone. It's hard to keep our kids off these screens because we're


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[Assistant] I've been drawing more and I used to love to draw and now so now I'm drawing. You're back into it. Yeah, a little bit. And you're just as good as you used to be.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean my, I got, I reached a level of drawing and then I never got better than that. And I'm about the same spot. You're not as good as you.


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[Assistant] Yeah, the kids videos have so much that I kind of want to start making kids videos just for monetization on my channel.


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[Assistant] Cause some of this stuff, I'm like, you know, this is pretty good animation, but some of them they're like just playing with toys and making a lot of wild sound effects.


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[Assistant] Quality over quantity. See what's in the egg. Is it good? Do I have enough? Usually it was nothing, but yeah.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I guess it is. Uhm, I don't know. I never know what, what the, you know, what the new year is. I mean, technically speaking, the Bible says that Passover comes on the 10th day of the first month. And I think Passover is supposed to be April


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[Assistant] But I just was like, I don't know why you need this. I tried to put the PO box in and they were like, we won't accept that. So I was like, all right, we'll just give me my money back. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry about that. That's okay. So where were you this weekend? I went to, I did two shows. I went to Jacksonville, Florida, Ponta Vedra.


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[Assistant] And uh, you know what? That's funny. Uh, in the green, I don't know why they didn't say it during my show, but in the green room, they were like, they're not booing. They're saying Duval. I was like, well, that's what I'll tell myself for the rest of my life.


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[Assistant] But, uh, uh, it was great. The, the Poncho Vidre show sold out way in advance. The show was hot. The moment I got out there, it was hot. I had, uh.


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[Assistant] No, they did great too. No, what, uh, Chris Buck that listens to the podcast, uh, open Wesley, uh,


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[Assistant] Johnson, I believe. Uh, I hate that I, it is Johnson, I believe. I hate that I'm forgetting his last name right now. And I, this is like the, we're having a good time podcast. Yeah. You know, I just want to, yeah. Wesley Johnson. And, uh, they were great. They used to, you know, Chris has been my friend a long time. Wesley, uh,


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[Assistant] It's so great. I mean, when the shows are good, it's like, they're just laughing, I'm riffing.


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[Assistant] Well, that's how Phil's at a club a lot of times, right? Because they've done last call.


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[Assistant] Yeah, they're ready to get out of there, but then in that theater I'm like, this is great. And then the next day, uh, I went to Atlanta once the show was great, but I had, I flew from Jacksonville to Atlanta, did a direct.


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[Assistant] Flight was great, but as we're landing, it's starting to get real rough and I'm starting to get a little motion sickness. And then I get an Uber, uh, and the Uber is about 45 minutes, standstill traffic in Atlanta. Of course. And I don't, I don't really have enough time to comfortably go to my hotel and then back to the theater. So I just go to the theater.


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[Assistant] That's all you can do. I'm motion sick. I'm out there walking around. Uh, yeah. And then, uh, I ran into a guy out behind the theater from my dad's hometown.


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[Assistant] And, uh, if you say Penton, then you're like, uh, you know, here now from around here. Uh, but, um, but the Atlanta show was really great. You did the one with me last year. This theater was, uh, about 800 more people. Wow. Uh, it was huge, uh, for me, about 1800 seats.


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[Assistant] All right, I apologize. I wanted this part out. I want to think I was like probably 95%. It might've been sold out, but it wasn't sold out in advance, but it was very close. 95%, something like that. That's a bummer. All right. Let's move on then. But it was hot.


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[Assistant] That I kinda started comedy with on the show. Liam Nelson was there. And then I had some high school buddies we all hung out after in the parking garage, had some cigars.


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[Assistant] And it was great. That's awesome. I had some high school friends just show up that I didn't know would be there.


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[Assistant] Yeah, this baseball is so chewed up. Well, that's part of the story. And he gave me, uh, I think you let us sign it and then get it chewed up, but he gave me a Sharpie and I'm like, I barely signed this. It's like signing. It's like, it's so tore up. Your signature looked pretty good. Yeah. Well, I got a good signature, but, uh, mine looked real bad.


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[Assistant] I've had that. I've also had, had women do that a couple of times. But, but I'm like, you know, I'm a married man. I'm not, I'm not looking into do that. You know what I mean?


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[Assistant] I don't care about your fans anymore, right, Dusty? But I do do the meet and greet and stand next to the merch, but I always thought I would never want to not sell my own merch, but like the moment I stopped doing it, I was like, oh, this is way better. Yeah. It's just scaled to a point where you can't do it anymore.


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[Assistant] What I hate is if they're a little bigger and they go, what sizes do you have? And I'll go, I have from small to three X and they go, Oh, I'm not that big. And I'm like, I just, you ask what sizes I have.


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[Assistant] And you know, it's like, people just seem like if it's a 3X and all, you must be so fat. It's, people are just big. It's not necessarily that people are fat. It's like people are big. There's big people.


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[Assistant] You know, people can buy whatever they want, but it does bother me a little bit when I was selling my own merch, when like a small person would go, let me get a 2X. I want to sleep in it. And I'm like, well, now when the 2X person comes along and I don't have a shirt big enough for them, you're costing me a sale here. You just wear a shirt. You just wear it like a normal person.


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[Assistant] Well they do say the thing about that club is that it's geared toward locals, whereas everything else in Vegas is geared toward tourists.


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[Assistant] This all happened to me after I ruptured my appendix. Used to be, I'm like, nah, I'm fine. Any body pain, I'm like, nah, I'm fine. But when I finally ruptured my appendix, I was like, oh jeez. So now every time I'm like,


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[Assistant] And then like if you, if it's pains like that, usually I stretch and it goes away. Yeah. But like.


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[Assistant] If it doesn't go away, it's like your mind can just go to a place. You got kids, you're living for other people. Yeah. And then it's like, and then anxiety can make that seem worse. Like I don't have regular anxiety out here. I'm not worried about things, but.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I go to the chiropractor and, uh, this guy is he, he cracks the back.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but it, yeah, I could use that. I'll bring it in one day. Let's do it. Do it on the table. Part of the podcast. Patreon.


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[Assistant] You know, the thing about stuff like that is they have, uh, there's, there can be so much info out there. There can be various things and you have to like make them aware of it and then they will make it go away. Like I was talking about using it.


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[Assistant] Uh, on, uh, the, we're having a good time podcast and somebody messaged me and they said, well, if you're using it.


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[Assistant] Uh, I just found this on you on this. So I, I sent that to, I have a guy that does this stuff for me.


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[Assistant] Can I start with one that I saw today? Sure.


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[Assistant] I just want to say I saw this one today in the Nate Land Facebook group from Brittany Wessner Hefner. It says, Dusty is right about everything. So, thank you, Brittany.


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[Assistant] Is he in here? Let me make sure he's not mentioned here.


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[Assistant] And you can find out that not everybody's telling you the truth out here. I don't shoot the messenger. Right. Right. All right. Sorry. All right. That would be a lot of fun. That was fun. I am sorry though, Dan. No, I'm not.


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[Assistant] I'm not trying to be a downer, dude, but I do like trying to be Eeyore.


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[Assistant] Well, I didn't say it specifically about Pizza Hut, I don't think, but buffets used to put it out. They would lay it on the buffet and then put stuff on top of it. Did we challenge you on that? I don't think so, but I, you know, I like, I appreciate Nicholas coming in and letting, letting you guys know.


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[Assistant] Who's using me as a medical expert? I guess the podcast. But I go to the, I mean,


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[Assistant] Been to the doctor, uh, about several things. And the doctor's always like,


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[Assistant] I don't know, man. We can run a test. When I ruptured my appendix, I went to the doctor and I talked to them about the pain that I was having.


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[Assistant] They said, well, we'll run some blood tests and find out what's going on. So I said, okay. And they ran the blood test.


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[Assistant] I'm in pain now. I have pain going on in my body. Scale of one to 10. Where were you at? I don't know. Depending on the day, uh, you know, some days it wasn't really hurting at all. Other days of seven, eight.


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[Assistant] Uhm, the, the day you came to see me at the St. Louis funny bone. Yea, you were nodding good shit. Yea, I was not doing well. Yea. I went to the doctor on that Monday. They ran these blood tests. They called me later. They go, good news. Everything's fine.


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[Assistant] I go, okay, well, I'm in a lot of pain here. So people, medical expert, it's like, listen, there are some very good doctors out there. I'm sure. But, um, so I'm told, but they're wrong about a lot of stuff.


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[Assistant] I think medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in this country, I think. Wow.


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[Assistant] It's something like that. And it's like, you know, because the body is tricky. All these things are tricky. You don't know what, what's affecting what. You don't, I mean, it's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I mean, the stomach is a very complicated thing. Right. And we're eating a lot of poison out here. And it's like, it is messing us up. Yeah. You know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that you, we, you're not supposed to, like the quantities that we eat a food is bad, but I think like a small amount of red meat. I think it's very good for you, but I think we should eat it every day. I don't always do that, but you know, and it's like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You go get a hamburger, you're like, and then, and then you feel bad or whatever. You always blame the meat, right? But a lot of these hamburgers, it's, it's buns that's made from some, we don't even know where the flowers comes from, some enriched.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, wheat flour and then it's like put together with a bunch of sugar and starches. And then you got, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but I'm just, you know, I don't mean to get fired up. I'm not even mad at Taylor Smith, but his.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His sentence doesn't make a lot of sense. You can tell he put a real word salad together, uh, uh, decently science-backed opinions mixed with completely erroneous stands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, that's what is a 16 ounce. That's a like a pound. That's a regular bottle of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you know, when I was a kid, like you get, it was a 16 ounce Coke and then they started introducing the 20 ounce and the 20 ounce was like a big deal. It was like, Ooh, a big Coke. And now 20 ounces, the standard, that's a small now. I love it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like Hardee's. When I, I grew up, we used to eat Hardee's like every day. I mean, it was Hardee's on the way home and we would eat Hardee's all the time. And this is pre thick burger too. Oh yeah. It's like original Hardee's menu. Yeah. When they had chicken on the menu and Monster Burger. That was a big one for me, but they, they, the small,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, that they used to have now doesn't really exist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The media, the old medium is the small, the old large is the medium, and like, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is true. I was looking at an old wrestling video and there's a wrestler named the earthquake. Yeah. I remember that guy. I do. I remember seeing that guy as a kid thinking, geez, that guy's big. And then I, I was like, Oh, I saw four people like that at Walmart today. I mean, I mean that guy. Yeah. Well, I remember my dad after he lost weight. It's like Aaron.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, uh. They wouldn't even call, they'd call him Mini Fred. Yeah. Slim. Slim Perry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you would think though that, you know, and maybe the ads they do like this because it's like, you know, a lot of times I'm listening to podcasts, they hit an ad. I'm like, skip, skip.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you know, you know they're like a minute, you hit that on your iPhone, it's got the little 30 sec, you go boop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get incredible deals and premium cuts from ButcherBox.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Today, ButcherBox has given our listeners a special offer. Use my link, ButcherBox.com slash Nate, and use code Nate to get $20 off your first order. That's ButcherBox.com slash Nate. Code N-A-T-E. What's that spell? Nate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if that's my link though. If it were my link, I'd be slash dusty, I think. Yeah. That's Nate's link. What's his podcast? It's your boss's link. It is my boss, my boss. That's right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a requirement to watch Nate's specials. That's right. That's right. You gotta pass an entry exam. When people ask, can they do the podcast? Uh, there we go. Well, have you watched all the specials? Get back to us when you can quote some of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, let me ask you this though. Did the person that yelled it out enjoy it? Did they come up to you after the show?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is funny. I don't, I don't really go now. I did go as a kid with my dad to the cattle auction and, uh, but you go now and you're having a good time. I'm just, I'm just waving. I'm just, you know, I'm like, Hey, guy keeps looking at me and I go,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this really gets me in a lot of trouble. No, uh, but I did work with an auctioneer not long ago. I did a gig where I was doing standup and he was auctioning off items and he was great, man. I wish I knew, remembered his name, but he was crushing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Genesis, they were like, oh, you, you know, they, they were like, yeah, they're like one of my favorite bands you got to get into. So I went and listened and I mean, I'm like the, the, the greatest hits are great. Like the one, but I'm like, I'm listening to just albums and I'm like, man, I.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm only liking it when I get to like one of the greatest hits one and I'm like, Oh yeah, this is a good one. But the other stuff I'm just like, it's okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I was in Atlanta one time when I, I, this is when I was, this was like when I was like 18 or 19.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is amazing. You know what I mean? Ah man, I loved it. That, that song is incredible. What's the name of it? In the Air of the Night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think this is what happens. Like a lead singer, uh, sometimes will be the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you know, in the beginning, you know, you have your band and, but yeah, in the end you're like, you know, I'm just going to do this by myself. Sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thank you, John. I'll say this about it though. I'm gone a lot and that particular time was like, uh, I had not, I didn't have very many days at home and had I been invited, I would have gone, but it was nice to go home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you know, I don't like roast battle, but a friendly roast with a friend is fun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I did invite him to my party to roast me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if you're, I don't know. Maybe Spring's not her first name though. Maybe this is, she has different, this is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dr. Thunder. Dr. Thunder. All the, whatever Walmart had at the time, it was, uh, Sam's Choice. Yes. That's what we had a lot of. And then my dad had like a, like, I don't remember what grocery store they had, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe Piggly Wiggly, uh, uh, and it had, uhm, Czech Cola. Czech Cola? Yeaah, so you had like, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they would have a lot of different drinks like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting. I would, we would, I think we are a little more redneck and we would say like drank. Let me get a drink.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but she, she was on it though. Well, I didn't remember and I didn't, you know, I knew I had told the story, but let's be honest. Everything, uh, is told multiple times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've told that story on here. I've told it on my own podcast. I've told it to other people. I've told it to, you know, friend groups that used to be friends with me and Marshall. It's a good story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That'll be the future of Google.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. I have a neighbor out in McMinnville. She's told me a story about her grandson several times and about the Amish. And I just think that I don't know if she remembers telling it or if it's just, she's like, this is a fun story for me to tell. And, uh, so she's like, I'm going to keep doing it. And whether your life is real or fake, you laugh every time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is what I've stopped. I thought that I would just keep doing the setup for my wave joke and for the we're having a good time joke because I like doing that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the last few weekends I've stopped doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow. And it is, uh, I still say we're having a good time. I still wait, but I've not been doing the setup. You don't need to describe it anymore. They know. It feels.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty freeing. I've been doing it for a long time. It feels pretty freeing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You finally took one hand behind your back and now you're, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just, uh, because I'm like, I like doing it because it, when I do it, it does give those things more impact and give, and I'm not saying I won't ever do it again. If I'm bombing somewhere, I'm going to, I'm going to do the way. Yeah. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I, yeah, it feels free. And I mean, so I'm doing an hour 25 out here, not stuff on the special. Crazy. That's great. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you know, my dad was here last week and my stepmom. Oh, I didn't know this. And, and, uh, me and Hannah, we watched that, you know, that prophecy about it and it, it's got, we go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We didn't know where to take my dad. We were like, you know what, let's go to the Parthenon. Let's go. Like the Parthenon creeps me out, but I've been there so many times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, pretty crazy. I think Barstool Sports did like a thing on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it was, it was something where it was odd where I was like, why are they doing this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeaah, the guy went down and was interviewing people and it's like, you couldn't go too deep. They say it get, they were like, it gets shadier the deeper you get, but, uh, because like, I think they flood the tunnels once in a while just to kind of flush. People die all the time down there. Anytime it rains.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were like, well, I actually am surprised that you said, what does that mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think I would have been calling it. I mean, I've been into poetry, uh, for a bit. I mean, I don't know a lot about it, but I'm, I'm into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, I'm not published any poetry, but I used to, I really got into it. It'd be crazy if we, if you had and we didn't do it. I actually got a book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the internet ruined a lot of stuff for me, but, uh, because, you know, back in the time when you could just be bored, I got very creative with stuff. I was living on the beach, uh, in the, you know, 2003 or four, uh, around that time, drinking a good bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, going to the beach a lot. I was writing poetry, getting into it and reading the Charles Bukowski stuff and listening to a lot of Bob Dylan, a lot of early Bob Dylan, which is very poetry like stuff. And, uh, uh, yeah, I mean.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's let them share jokes with you. They said, yeah, I, well, I prefaced it like that. I go, listen, people share jokes with me all the time. I'm just going to send this to you. And they weren't like, I don't like this, but you know, it's, you know, they didn't send back a demo or anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wrote a poem for my high school graduation


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think it was in contention to, to be one of the ones, but it did not get picked. What are we talking? Was this, uh, like, what was this? Yes. Uh, you know, I don't know, but it would just kind of meter where you were. I would be like, I would be like one line and then the next line.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a sonnet? Free verse meaning that, like, like, I would go, uh, like, uh, I wrote a, um, uh, well, I feel like all mine have some kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reference that, you know, you know, I was doing a lot of stuff. You're living a different life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, no, I just mean like, you know, this was like, I wrote a poem one time. It was like, there once was a man who lived in the woods. Everyone came to him cause he had the goods. Like it was those kind of poems. Oh, sure. However that works. So like that line and the next line and then a line and then another line. Nice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the easiest one. And you took the path, uh. What's that one called? And it's made all the difference. Two roads diverge in a wood? Uh. In the woods? I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'd like to think of it, you know, just in my own way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I guess I do care, but I'm like, you know, with art, it's like they write it and put it out. And there was a time where you wouldn't have really got what they intended for you to get. You would just read it and interpret it how you interpret it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now we're able to find commentaries and maybe it existed, but it wasn't a quick Google search.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, sure. See the poem and read the poem and then be like, this is what it means to me. And the same way looking at a painting is like, this means this to me, but maybe the artist meant it to mean something else. Interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've not spent a lot of time reading that poem, dissecting it. No, neither have I.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I've spent a lot of time listening to music albums, like especially, uh, you know, I made this reference several times, but before the internet, when, when before, and not even before the internet, but before music was so endlessly accessible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I would list, you know, I might, I had Pink Floyd, The Wall, Disc 1. I didn't even have Disc 2. I just, Disc 1 just came into my possession.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we would listen to it all the time and me and my friends would listen and try to break it down and, and, and see what story he's trying to tell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I love doing that. I mean, you know, then you can, you know, later you can look up what he really means or whatever in the commentary, but it's like, I love doing that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Leaking into my subconscious, but at the time. Oh, it's in there. Like leads up when I'm like, I'm completely out on now. I feel like they're very dark, but man, I used to stairway to heaven. I mean, I listened to that song. Like you wouldn't believe trying to, you know, dig in there, find out what they're talking about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That I used to, I really loved it. I forget the actual album. Yeaah. Radiohead Kid A is like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean that album is, Radiohead is not that good anymore, but that album and Amnesiac is another one. Those are banging albums.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, uh, M ward. Oh, it's called Transfiguration of Vincent. Uh, great album. Very poetry oriented. This guy went on to record an album with, with the girl, Chloe. Uh, she was an actress. She was an elf, uh, Chloe Deschanel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] M Ward and her. Zoe Deschanel? Zoe Deschanel, yes. The two of them recorded an album together. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that's the bam. She and I. No, she and I, I think is what it's called.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is a hot song, but that, the guy who got me into Radiohead told me that he's like, I like creep. He's like that album, not even worth listening to. But the other like five that we got into.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it, my life is not depending on farming, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sometimes I think people's over explanations of a poem like that, it does ruin the whole creative take that you could have. Cause now you read it and you go, oh, that's what it means. So now your whole imagination is gone because you read this person's explanation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, what he seemed to be describing was his girlfriend, uh, just complaining at him all day about every little thing and then at the end going, uh, what's wrong with you? Is it called girlfriend?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, well, it's like the thing about it, I couldn't find it, uh, there's so many, I mean, he's always talking about women and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This guy's your hero, right? He's not my hero, but like, uh, I really, I mean, I think...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they, you know, they just go out in the wilderness. I mean, Hannah read a lot of these books. I forget, uh, and she would always tell me about them. She's like, you should read this guy. You would love this, but they, you know, they just want to go out into the woods and they want to be with nature. And that's where they get their creativity from. And I think there is something to that. I mean, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not to just go to the Bible every time, but it's like, you know, Jesus would disappear off into the woods and would go, I mean, it's like all people in the Bible would go out into the woods and meditate in the woods. I think there's a, there's a thing about it. The woods gives you creativity, gives you a spark. Do some grounding. Yeah. Do some grounding, touch some trees.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're just in, for lack of a better term, if you're just in the city and just hanging out with people all the time, only socializing, then you're, you're not getting, uh, any time to recharge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if you're only recharging all the time, then what, what are you even recharging? People recharge differently though. Some people recharge in social situations. Introverts and extroverts. Yeah. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A time to not just take things in, process the things that you're taking in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think we spend enough time now processing. That's why I keep referencing before the internet is really not the internet. It's before the smartphone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, when, you know, like, like before the smartphone, you would go, like I would go to the beach. I would get off work and I would go down to the beach by myself and I would just sit there and I lived two or three blocks from the ocean. I would just walk down there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be in the sun, be grounding. I didn't even know about grounding and I didn't even really care about being in the sun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The car used to be huge for me. When I would drive to do gigs, I would do especially doing these comedies on gigs. A lot of them would be so bad that I would end up my, my a jokes were not working and I would start riffing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I would riff on stage and then I would get in the car on Sunday, driving home, thinking about these riffs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I would think about new jokes to add onto them. And I wrote a lot of jokes. The mobile homeowners association. I remember writing, this wasn't a comedy zone. It was, uh, uh, in Winston Salem, North Carolina. There was a club called the laughing gas. And I remember going home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that whole mobile homeowners association, I kind of came up with it that weekend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I thought about a lot more stuff in the car and it was just like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was great. There were other things I would do, but uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not for this podcast, but I, uh, but my mind would be stimulated and, uh, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I just would think of a lot of stuff. Not all of it was good, but I would think about a lot of stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you know? Listen to the song by Bob Dylan, Tangled Up in Blue. Sure. That's a great one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they take like basically a whole verse from Tangled Up in Blue and put it right in that song.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, they even say tangled up in blue, don't they? Yeah, but they just take straight up like a whole verse. I don't mind it. I think it's great. But aren't they almost just referencing Bob Dylan? Like I think they are referencing it, but you know, but they, they still use a whole verse.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's got, I mean, we could go all day. We could go all day with the hits, but there's some secrets in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, a lot of country songs are like that too. Uhm, Charlie Daniels has a song called Trudy. Call up Trudy on the telephone. Such a great song. Is that a limer? I think they do A-A-B-B-A. Interesting. I think so. Yeah. But I could be wrong about that too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I used to go down to Sullivan's Island. They had a bar called Pose down there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Back when I was still eating shellfish, they had a hamburger with a crab cake on it. And it was unbelievable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tell us about AG1. It's important to me that the supplements I take are of the highest quality. Yeah. And that's why for the past year and a half. Every day. I've been drinking AG1.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unlike many supplement brands, AG1 conducts relentless testing to set the standard for purity potency. Very high.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know I can trust what's in every scoop of AG1 because it's tested for 950 contaminants and banned substances while the industry standard typically only tests for 10.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Taking care of my health shouldn't be complicated and AG1 simplifies this by making


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've partnered with AG1 for so long because they make such a high quality product that I genuinely look forward to drinking every day. So if you want to replace your multivitamin and more, start with AG1. Try AG1 and get a free one year supply of vitamin D31 plus K2.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow, that was an interesting energy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you like that one? I thought to get serious with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You ever go to a poetry open mic to do comedy? No I never. I've done that a few times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, but I, I have a way of doing comedy that the poetry readers appreciate. And they were like, thanks for not coming in here and yelling and roasting the room.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, that was a thing I did find, uh, like Charles Bukowski, like advice to young men.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was like, uh, it was all about not getting into poetry. And I don't know that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, he was like, his list of advice was like, do, it was like, things you would never do, but he kept listing off those. Any, and then he's like basically like anything but poetry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Robin Williams. I would, I would be into that. Finding Forester, I've talked about here before. One of my favorites. Such a great movie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would be, I think I would be into dead poet society.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it would need to be a whole line. Cause it's just, that's just what, like an acronym or something. I guess that's true. So it would need to be like, you know, Brian went to the store, Aaron, you know, was like, get me some cheese.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dusty said, Dusty said, more cheese, please. That's better than the red. Please and cheese rhymes in our, in our thing here. It does. That was freestyle. If you give it some, you know, if I just let you do your


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, I wanted to talk about Shel Silverstein, because Shel Silverstein had these poetry books where the sidewalk ends, Lighthouse and the Attic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he also wrote a ton of country songs, like so many country songs. He wrote Boy Named Sue by Johnny Cash. He wrote a lot. Yeah. He wrote a lot. He wrote the Giving Tree guy. Yeah. He wrote, I don't know if he's the Giving Tree guy, but he wrote a lot of, um, uh, songs, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bobby Bayer Jr. He wrote a lot of, uh, of songs, uh, by him. He wrote, uh, uh, he wrote so many songs. He wrote, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Taker, uh, written by Chris Christopherson, uh, Rosalie's Good Eats Cafe, that's a good one. The cover of A Rolling Stone, Sylvia's Mother.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I did a, uh, I got a YouTube video where I did, uh, Dusty Slay's Top 5 Country Songs, uh, written by Shel Silverstein. Now, after doing that, a lot of people commented and I learned a lot more. It's an old video. I learned a lot more songs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they're written by Shel Silverstein, but it's like, it's pretty amazing the amount of really great country song Shel Silverstein wrote.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is so wild. I'm glad you brought that up because I'm like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Bobby Bear Jr. has so many written by him. Bobby Bear Jr., very underrated. I mean, growing up, no one ever talked about him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, yeah, I mean, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is Bobby Bear that I'm talking about in junior, but I thought- Well, that mentioned Bobby Bear Jr. under Shel Silberstein. But, but Bobby Bear sings Lullabies, Legends and Lies. That album is really great. And I think quite a few of these songs is written by, uh, Shel Silberstein.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's an interesting looking fellow. Um, uh, oh yeah. 500 miles away from home. Great song.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, there's so many and, uh, I don't know as many songwriters as I should, but like Chris Kristofferson is really great. Um, uh, you know, um, some of his songs, uh, are just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the, I don't know. So they're all like poetry to me. These old country, uh, writers. It's all like poetry. Sunday morning coming down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Chris Kristofferson version to me is, he wrote it, it's better than the Johnny Cash version because Chris Kristofferson sounds really run down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's, it sounds a little more raggedy and it's like, that's what you want with that song. Do you know the song?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So good. From the bottle to the bottom, from the, yeah, from the bottle to the bottom by Chris Christopherson. So great. I mean, it's just like, just a man talk. He's like, he's like, he's basically, you asked me if I'm happy now, that's good as any joke I've heard. It seems, it seems since I seen you last, I done forgot the meaning of the word. It's so good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the, uh, John Anderson song, years that we talked about last, last week or a couple of weeks ago, uh, if you watch the video, I feel like it's more impactful because he's talking about years and just how they go by and it's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you see, uh, you know, basically all these pictures going by of all the people he's worked with over the years. And it's just, it's such, it's such a powerful thing because it's I.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, at the career he's had and it's like, in the way it's framed though, it's like he's in pictures with people more famous with him, right? So he's like, he's paying homage. He's not being like, look how big I am. He's like, look how fortunate I've been to be able to work with all these people. That's how I see it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it just, it's just similar to that. You got me into that. I'm listening to that song a lot. Don Williams, uh, is really great. Don Williams has a song called Good Ol' Boys Like Me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that song really paints a picture to me of like my own childhood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I believe in you is great. Lord, I hope this day is good. I'm feeling empty and misunderstood. I should be thankful. Lord, I know I should, but Lord I hope this day is good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I do have a Spotify playlist called Dusty Slice, uh, Country Songs. Uh, it's out there. Very good. I mean, it's so long. I gotta, I should start a, uh, a new.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Playlist because it's, it's too long now. Dusty Slay's Country Radio is what it's called, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 15 hours, 16 hours almost. Yeah. It's a little too long. Okay. Okay. But it's, I mean, I got, I got a lot of like new and old in there. It's some popular that you would recognize a lot of stuff you wouldn't recognize. It's very good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This weekend, matter of fact, I'm off. And, uh, it feels good. I have been going at it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it feels good to be off. Uh, but next week, if the world doesn't end after the eclipse, I, I'll be in Charleston, West Virginia, uh, on April 12th at, uh, at a theater and then, uh, on April


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then on the April 13th, I'll be outside of, uh, Pittsburgh. I guess it's Munhall, Pennsylvania, but right outside of Pittsburgh, doing a theater show there. It's going to be great. Uh, I'm doing, I mean, I got my schedule is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lined up a lot of theaters coming up and I'm pumped about it. That's awesome. So it's gonna be great. Come on out. We're having a good time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Will's great, uh, so I'm pumped about that show.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well we are, but just less time. I don't think it's the center though, it's in Texas right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We went down to this farm with a bunch of hippies and there was a dog and it was during the eclipse and he got me. Good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm glad you said that because I'll go Cardinals, and I got a lot of athletic stuff, but I rarely go, uh, up and down. Yeah. Jersey and the hat, you mean? Because I'm a player.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just a crescent shape in your eyeball. Did you know they're selling fake, uh, eyeglasses out there? Really? Fake, there's fake eclipse glasses. Can you think of a bigger scumbag in the world that's out there dealing fake