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[Assistant] Think about if you were legitimately just paranoid about making a mistake and having the grammar Nazi come at you.


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[Assistant] You're just gonna sit there. Yeah. You're not gonna put the word out. So you gotta be like, hey, Grammar Nazi, no.


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[Assistant] Yeah. You can say, hey, you might want to make adjustments here, but good try. That's what they say.


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[Assistant] The teaching of the conduct of war cannot be concentrated exhaustively in regulations. The principles so enunciated must be employed dependent upon their situation. It's the same thing. Dude, it's not about regulations, you gotta figure it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The emptiness of the battlefield depend, demands independent thinking and acting of fighters who considering each situation are dominated by determination to act boldly and decisively and to arrive at success. We just want you to go figure it out. We don't care how you do it.


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[Assistant] Everyone, the highest commander and the most junior soldier, must be aware that omissions and neglect incriminate him more severely than mistake and choice of means. Great success, presume boldness, and daring preceded by good judgment.


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[Assistant] They're just telling us these troops over and over again. Make something happen. We never have at our disposal all the desired forces for the decisive action. He who will be secure everywhere or who fixes forces in secondary tasks acts contrary to the fundamental. Oh, I just need a few more troops to go. No, go. Hold on, we're gonna hold, we got in set security. No, go.


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[Assistant] The weaker the force, through speed, mobility, great march accomplishments, surprise and deception, the utilization of darkness and terrain to the fullest can be stronger at the decisive area.


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[Assistant] Time and space must be correctly estimated, favorable situations quickly recognized and decisively exploited. Every advantage over the enemy increases our own freedom of action.


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[Assistant] The attack is launched in order to defeat the enemy. The attacker has the initiative. Superiority of leadership and of troops shows to the best advantage in the attack. Success does not always come to the superiority of numbers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These standards of leadership. So this is pretty impressive.


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[Assistant] Before the campaign in the west, we underestimated the wonderful leadership of our 22 year old company commanders. They acted without hesitation, where older men would have paused for long consideration and heavy artillery reinforcements. Time and time again, we found these young commanders


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A famous fortress and then actually capturing it with no delay and relatively few losses. The enthusiastic leadership of youth was one of the great features of our Advanced West.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they did, they actually, this is like one of those things where you program the robot, and then it like does even better than you thought it was gonna do. They told these guys, advance, you know, fight, go, be aggressive, and that's what they did, and it worked. And they were surprised by it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Next section is orders and communications. Aggressiveness cannot serve as the sole principle of tactics without leading to disaster. So there's the dichotomy. We want you to be aggressive, but if you're just being aggressive, it can be a disaster. German training supplements that principle with careful attention to all measures which provide that action taken shall be considered and intelligent. These measures include orders,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Clear orders and an efficient system of communications.


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[Assistant] Simple, clear and concise orders. That's what this goes into. Uh, orders should be clear and direct. Should confine themselves to the main lines of a mission assigned to the lower command, giving the lower command latitude of choice of the means to execute the mission. So here's what you gotta do. We don't care how you do it.


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[Assistant] The Germans believed that one of the signs of deterioration in their armies toward the end of the First World War was the growing verbosity and ambiguity of orders.


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[Assistant] We started falling apart at the end of World War I. Why? The more we talked, the less people understood what was happening.


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[Assistant] Uhm, when we start talking about the way these guys are sort of living their lives.


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[Assistant] No German officer begins the day without a mission.


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[Assistant] If the mission has not been received from higher authority, he gives himself a mission for the day.


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[Assistant] And one which is definitely not a mere compliance with a printed schedule. The printed schedule is nothing but a time allotment or control.


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[Assistant] He approaches, this is the German officer, approaches each day's task as he would a battle in order that eventually he will approach battle as he would a day's task.


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[Assistant] The manual of troop leadership says on this subject of orders, the order puts the decision into effect. Clear orders are essential for the frictionless cooperation of all commanders. For the higher commander, the written order provides the foundation for leadership.


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[Assistant] It is communicated to the lower units printed in carbon copy, typewritten or written by hand or by technical communication means, frequently as dictated over the telephone.


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[Assistant] In order for me to give you an order in a pressing situation, I have to be able to look at the situation, simplify it.


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[Assistant] And then distill it, the order down into something that's like, hey, we need to move north now.


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[Assistant] And there's a lot of other things going on. What we need to do is move north now and get this terrain feature solidified. Boom. That's it. Go.


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[Assistant] That's one of the most challenging things that leaders, one of the most challenging things for leaders to do is to look at complex situations and simplify them and then verbalize what needs to happen.


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[Assistant] That's something when you, when you are going to talk to your team, you should write down what you're going to say and say it in as few words as possible.


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[Assistant] That's one thing I kinda liked about Twitter. Back in the day when I was on Twitter a lot.


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[Assistant] Seriously, it was fun. You had to like, you had to like, you had 140 characters. And then they made it easy, gave you 280 characters. But back in the day, 140 characters, you had to, that's what you're gonna do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With important orders, it is often advisable to use two or more means of transmission. That makes sense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is easy to underestimate the time required to get an order through. Oh, that's an important one. I told those guys yesterday. Oh, they didn't get the word yet.


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[Assistant] Big shocker. Too many orders, especially in battle, during which communication means may miscarry, produce the danger of an impairing independence of action of lower commanders. So if I'm giving you orders all the time, eventually you're just waiting for orders. It's just I'm centralizing command and I'm micromanaging and it's gonna be a problem.


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[Assistant] An order shall contain all that is necessary for the lower commander to know in order for him to execute independently his task, it should contain no more.


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[Assistant] As contact is gained with the enemy, it is better that the division commander be where he can observe.


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[Assistant] Therefore he belongs early on the field of battle and in the decisive area. His location must be easily found, easily reached. In attack, the division command post should be located as far forward as possible.


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[Assistant] Standby for dichotomy, yet so selected that the communication net to the side and rear is effectively shielded from hostile fire.


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[Assistant] To be desired are observation of the battlefield either from the command post or nearby observation post and the possibility of establishing an airplane landing field nearby. So there's a dichotomy.


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[Assistant] The usual attention is paid in German training to correct use of maps as a basis for utilizing terrain and maneuver. But the German doctrine...


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[Assistant] Is that maps should be so thoroughly studied that they can be largely dispensed with during maneuvers.


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[Assistant] An observer who commented on the small use of maps during tank exercises was told that the officer who must constantly refer to a map for orientation purposes considered poorly trained. The map once studied should be carried in the mind rather than in the hand. That's... When you get in the military, that's sort of like... From a leadership perspective,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Understanding terrain is like blue belt level. Like, and you know the difference between someone that doesn't train in a blue belt is massive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's, when you start to look at terrain and understand terrain, that's like when you get your blue belt, you're like, okay, I understand. I understand how I can utilize the terrain that we're facing to our advantage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And even when you train, when we train as SEALs, like when we first go out and do immediate action drills, so we practice getting in gunfights and breaking contact with the enemy or assaulting the enemy, the first thing we do is we do it on a big flat open field.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's desert, but it's a big flat piece of sand. There's no terrain, it's just flat. And you're just going through the mechanics. And then as you get better, you start incorporating little pieces of terrain and then eventually you're using like wild terrain features.


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[Assistant] The speed of execution of any maneuver is an essential, is essential for achieving.


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[Assistant] Speed, surprise, and violence of action. That's what you learn day two at the SEAL team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Section 7, Training Methods Subsection 20, Physical Conditioning and Marching


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[Assistant] The importance of physical condition is fully recognized in German training doctrine. One of the services of the Hitler Youth with its emphasis on sports and the labor service is to furnish the army with recruits who are fully conditioned and toughened.


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[Assistant] The training period is thereby shortened and made more effective.


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[Assistant] A US observer saw an infantry battalion on maneuvers in January 1940.


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[Assistant] With the temperature at 20 degrees, the troops lay patiently in four inches of snow, waiting their orders for over an hour. Many men had no gloves. This difficult period seemed to have no effect on their performance later. The hardening.


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[Assistant] Other observers of a German division in field exercises before the outbreak of war reported that fitness and endurance were made a fetish by both officers and men.


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[Assistant] The training purposes officers, oh sorry, for training purposes, officers often went 24 hours without food.


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[Assistant] Troops carried heavy loads of mortars, machine guns, and other equipment as far as 1200 yards in fast rushes of 50 yards. Just before the exercises, one engineer battalion had marched 85 miles through the mountains in three days.


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[Assistant] Good physical condition has been a basis for the notable


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[Assistant] March achievement of the German infantry, despite all the mechanization,


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[Assistant] of modern armies. German doctrine foresaw the possibility that motorized personnel might lose their equipment and have to move rapidly on foot. In some cases, German troops under the prolonged strain of combat operations have covered 30 to 40 miles a day for several days and German sources claim a march of 44 miles in 24 hours during the Polish campaign.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reserve formations of older men are held to nearly the same high standards. Despite these achievements, demand is made for even greater attention to marching.


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[Assistant] An article in a German military review from 1940 states, peacetime marching practice, though good.


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[Assistant] Was not strenuous enough to prepare men for wartime marching conditions. In peacetime marching, too much consideration is given to the comfort and convenience of the troops.


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[Assistant] Despicable tone added by me. Yeah. So you had these American observers over there in 1940. Actually, you know, my grandfather was in the army and he was over in Nazi Germany in 1939.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ended up befriending one of the Nazi German or Nazi army engineers that worked on weapon systems and he became friends with them and got a bunch of blueprints of their weapon systems and stole them and brought them back to America and turned them over. He did a little espionage.


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[Assistant] But I have, uh, I had his passport. I don't know where it is right now. I think my dad might have it. But his passport has like all the Nazi swastika stamps in it and stuff. And when he was over there. And you know, my grandfather spoke, uh, Dutch. And so he met someone that they could communicate with.


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[Assistant] But he is taught to apply them concrete by case study method in which a specific situation must be stated and solved. Tactical training at the school is given almost entirely by means of free maneuvers on the map.


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[Assistant] And on the ground. No fixed divisional organization is used in this training. And the combination of arms in the division is continually varied. The exercises are so conducted that the officer student as commander and his staff oppose either the instructor or another student group.


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[Assistant] Of training for troops. Small units carry out tactical problems day in day out. Tactical exercises fill in half the time of training. This is just squared away.


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[Assistant] And you can have a, you can do, you can do such awesome role, and we've, we're doing a bunch of stuff at Aslanfront. We've got the FTX going, obviously, where this is what you're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're gonna get like, little bit of information, you got a timeline that you gotta meet, you got enemy moving, you got friendly forces, you got all this stuff going on. And that's why we do it, so you can learn how to lead. We're doing something now we call the leadership lab where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not a combat scenario, it's a bus- it's business scenarios. Oh, that's cool. So you're going in, and you've got a staff that you've gotta work with, and you've got things that are happening at your company. Who plays the staff?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Roleplayers. Roleplayers play as staff. It's, it's pretty awesome. Like, oh, hey, we've got, hey, hey listen boss, or listen.


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[Assistant] Whatever, plant, plant manager, hey plant manager, you got a complaint, one of your, one of your employees is flying off the handle right now, who says that they're getting treated unfairly, they're coming to your office right now, they'll be here in three minutes.


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[Assistant] Oh, by the way, as soon as that's over, there's a reporter here, you gotta do a small press conference, there's a group of reporters here, they wanna know about this product that you made that's made a bunch of kids sick in the local neighborhood. So get ready for that press conference. And then you go to the press conference, guess what happens? You get asked a bunch of questions by role players.


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[Assistant] Yeah, echelonfront.com leadership lab. Check it out. You want to put your key executives through some awesome training where they learn these types of leadership skills. That's it.


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[Assistant] Fast forward a little bit, the concept of wartime training was stated in a German training directive in 1941. In spite of greater difficulties than in time of peace, training must be conducted as thoroughly and methodically as possible.


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[Assistant] It is only by inspiring a desire for intellectual cooperation and by constantly keeping it alive among the lower ranks that the correct tactical conceptions can be successfully inculcated in the ranks down to the most humble noncommissioned officer.


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[Assistant] No element of training doctrine is given more stress than the demand for a maximum effect of realism. Klauswitz, the guide of so much modern military theory, stated the principle vary exactly at a period when the methods and techniques of warfare put less strain than they do now on the troops entering battle for the first time. That's an interesting statement.


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[Assistant] Like hey, back in the day is nothing compared to, you're going into combat in 1942, and there's machine guns, and you know, Messerschmitts overhead strafing your area, and people are just getting blown up, like this is a totally different ball game.


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[Assistant] But this is a good way of putting it from classmates. No general can supply his army with war experience. And the substitute of peacetime drills is a weak one when compared with the actual experience in war.


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[Assistant] It is much more important that peacetime drills be so arranged that a part of the causes for friction occur, and that the judgment, the wisdom, the prudence, and the decision of the individual leaders are tested than is believed by those who do not know from this experience. So you gotta go, if you haven't been to war, you gotta go even harder than you think.


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[Assistant] It is of utmost importance that the soldier of high or low grade, no matter what position he may occupy, should experience those difficulties which perplex and surprise him in actual war.


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[Assistant] This even applies to physical strains. They must be practiced. Not so much that nature, but that the brain becomes accustomed. This is...


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[Assistant] So absolutely critical. And you know, I was so lucky to have been where I was and be able to run training in the SEAL teams.


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[Assistant] Because we just were able to execute on this. We were just absolutely able to execute on this 100%. And give super hard training, stressful training, decisions that need to be made under time, under stress, under pressure, with mayhem going on, communication breaking down, like we were able to do this over and over again.


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[Assistant] If you're a platoon commander, you're going to do this 12 times. In 12 nights or in 3 nights or 4 nights. You're going to be put in these stressful situations. You would start to get used to it. And your troops get used to it. This is why law enforcement training needs to step it up. It needs to step it up. About 1000%.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that people get used to these scenarios from training.


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[Assistant] The Germans have gone to great trouble and expense to carry out this principle in training. For one thing, troops in training exercises are provided with large amounts of practice ammunition of all sorts, including grenades.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Usually with reduced charges, but nevertheless requiring careful handling and involving some risk. Machine gun fire, ball ammunition over the heads of attacking troops with very small safety margin and trench mortars support the infantry within 50 yards of its objective.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In field exercise, the enemy is always represented by actual soldiers who advance and retreat, delay flier, fire blanks, and otherwise conduct themselves as the enemy should. Barbed wire, shell holes, trenches, artillery emplacements, and all the other features of actual combat are introduced as far as possible in every exercise.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, blanks don't sound as real as real guns, but yes, it went bang. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it shot the laser at the same time.


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[Assistant] There's a choir. It's, it's, it's, it's considerably choir. Although the machine gun blanks are pretty freaking loud. But like a, an M4 or M16 type blank is pretty weak. Like you pry, I don't need air pro.


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[Assistant] We, you know, this guy's talking about barbed wire, shell holes, trenches, artillery, and placements, like all the stuff to make it real. We had Hollywood set designers come down and square away our training sites. And it was freaking awesome. It was awesome.


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[Assistant] Like we do what the moose would do, which is like set tires on fire in the middle of the streets. You come down there, your night vision's getting all messed up from that. There's graffiti on the walls. There's speakers that are playing the call to prayer. It would be, it would be realistic, man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well I always tell people like, I'm doing my first jiu-jitsu tournament, what should I be ready for? And I'm like, be ready for your opponent to go crazier than anything you've seen in your jiu-jitsu academy. That's what's gonna happen.


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[Assistant] Might not be the first match, might be the second, but like, it's almost guaranteed, it probably is gonna be your first match. The person's gonna get nuts. Yes, he will. And you need to be ready for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The handbook on squad combat says one should use real troops as much as possible to represent the enemy. The soldiers will much less, will be much less likely to make mistakes in wartime if they see during the training instead of a dummy a real and active enemy. This is, you know, you talked about using that laser tag system and when we started using sim munition and paintball, it was just totally different.


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[Assistant] That training is, even though live fire training, you have to do it and you need to do it to a point where it's second nature. Live fire against targets.


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[Assistant] But, the real stressors should come when you start doing force on force training.


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[Assistant] Training scenario. And we adjusted our tactics when we figured that out. Because our tactics had evolved from Vietnam, they had evolved to a point where they weren't realistic anymore.


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[Assistant] Because we spent all these, we spent 20 years shooting at paper targets that weren't moving. And so we developed tactics to do it very quickly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, you know, I was pretty awesome. But then the minute I got into a fight with some drunk wrestler, I got caught a beat down. I'm like, this doesn't work. And what jujitsu is, jujitsu is like, oh, you're training to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're training as hard as you can to put the person in a submission hold that then they don't die because they tap. Well, it's the same thing. I shoot you with paintball in the neck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, and it comes out, I would, I don't know if it comes out like faster, it seems to, I think it's a little bit faster, I think it hits a little bit harder, then it's a smaller projectile, so it hurts a little bit more, but it, but it is, it has paint in it, and you get, you know, you get a little paint on you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's very effective. The thing, the reason that we also use the laser tag system is because the paintball and the Simunition is only good for, you know, 30, 40 yards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You need to use regular paintball guns, eventually, so that you can get some distance, you can put down cover fire, like across the street. But even that's not very, that's not very accurate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. And what was funny was, so we used those in the desert.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you got put down, someone's gonna have to carry you out. And if you're getting carried out, you're gonna get dropped, you're gonna get fluked. Like it sucked for everyone. And so when, it would actually,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you would watch guys going through like an urban scenario, getting shot with paintball, they would just charge through it, like they didn't care. Like the instructors, if they're gonna put you down, they put you down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the laser tag system, it had a near miss little, you had a speaker on your shoulder. So when you would get shot at, it would go, you know, make a little noise and you knew that you were getting shot at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is a total gut check. And, and it would happen a lot. But you'd see those guys, it was very effective training. But sometimes, you know, when you're just doing a laser tag with no punishment whatsoever, you can definitely get a little bit cocky.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Paintball, you don't really get too cocky because it hurts and you don't want to get, you know, you'll move from cover to cover. Yeaah. Because you don't want to get lit up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, the guys diving for cover in, using the laser system was, that's when you knew, like, oh this is really effective.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, yes, and that was one thing that was, even with, even with the laser tag, you'd still see guys do like stuff where you're like, would you have really done that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you got shot 19 times or whatever, you know. And so it was a little hard to simulate the fear of death. Yeah. But I'll tell you what, getting, getting buddy carried or having to buddy carry someone out for six kilometers in the desert.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On night vision, it sucked. And guys hated it. And so they would do everything they could to stay alive and accomplish the mission.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, obviously you can't shoot the guys and kill them, but man, it's, you don't want to hump someone out in the desert. It's freaking terrible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It would just be awful. Like if they did, if they didn't, if the leadership wasn't making good decisions and they weren't covered moving and things weren't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, simple and clear, and then you prioritize, you would get 12, 13, 14, and sometimes, you know, we'd kill so many of them and be like, alright, you guys are done, just walk back, you failed. And that's when you're getting reloaded, and now you got a whole nother stress, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause they don't want to get, they don't want to fail, of course. So, be a bummer. But it was really good. It was great to be able to be a part of that training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Realism in German training methods is one aspect of their general demand for thoroughness. German officers in particular and the enlisted men as well are taught to regard themselves as men engaged in a highly skilled and highly honorable profession and to take pride in acquiring the details of military techniques to encourage this point of view. Soldiers are put as little


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] However, a German article in late 1941 makes the point that volume of mechanical fire will not replace accurate individual shooting and that sharpshooters can perform invaluable tactical missions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are the same principles that are taught in the US military and really the same principles that are taught by any sort of leadership education.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? And that's why it's very strange to read this document and recognize that these principles are being utilized by


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The most evil or at least one of the top evil empires to have ever existed. And yet they're talking about taking care of their people and making sure everyone understands the why.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Implemented down chain of command, clearly at the top.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These principles didn't exist at all. A tyrannical leader of Hitler. Massive ego.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Driven by his own insecurities, driven by paranoia, lack of trust, like all these things that this book talks about, Hitler didn't have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's why you end up in this disaster, in this horrific, the, the horrific atrocities that, that the Nazis created in the horrific atrocities of the war. Which, which, you know what you, you know what you were talking about?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Earlier I kinda made fun of you about like, oh the world didn't exist before I was here, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Na, uh, communities. It's, it's, it's kind of hard to really truly understand that those things occurred at all. It can be very difficult to understand that they seem inconceivable, I guess.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you truly look at it, it seems inconceivable. If you think about the millions of peo- You know, millions of people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to, it's hard to understand a million dollars. It's hard to understand, you know, a million, a million people going to, uh, uh, you know, at a, at a big giant arena. There's only a hundred thousand people there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's, there you have a million. And each one of those people is an individual with a family and dreams and a life and thoughts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With that, we appreciate y'all listening to the podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want to support the podcast and support yourself at the same time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Might as well support some good causes out there, right? Let's support some good. Let's make the world a better place. Let's start with ourselves. Make yourself better. Physically better. Mentally better. Spiritually better. Let's do all those things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you can take care of other people. Then you can help other people. So, if you want to help yourself from a... FUEL!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm not talking about gasoline for your car or maybe diesel for your truck. I'm talking about for you. You need fuel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Similar concept. You want to get good fuel. You kind of want to get the best fuel. Yes sir. You might want to get for yourself some Jocko fuel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you gotta get that protein. 100%. How much you getting?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of them. All the, all the Discipline Go taste good as hell now. Like, it will taste, we're gonna win on taste. We're gonna win on taste. Taste better than the other, let's go, what do we call them, energy drinks? Energy drinks. Taste better than the other ones. Straight up better. Yeah, try that one. And still no sugar. Still no, still no chemicals in there. Just good for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The other flavors, you might have had one or two flavors that you liked, but the other ones you kind of, now you'll like them all. Yea. You'll, and you'll love one or two of them. That's the difference. That's what we just did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now you're gonna, you're gonna like them all, you're gonna love two or three of them, and you're gonna be good to go. You're gonna find your little thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] JockoFuel.com, go to Wawa, get some drinks. We gotta, we gotta ready to drink coming. Moke coming. Have you seen that yet?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's good. Uh, go to Wawa, get the drinks. Go to Vitamin Shop, get this stuff. Go to, if you're in Texas, go to H-E-B. Go to H-E-B, rollin' hot, and get yourself some mulk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I'm saying. Uh, also get some Origin Hunt. OriginUSA.com. You can get jeans, boots, you know what you can get. But you can get stuff that's made in America. Not stuff that's literally made.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a little bit different, but the principles are kinda there. Let's not support that. Let's support America, where people are free.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How about that? That's a good idea. OriginUSA.com Get yourself some boots, jeans, some jujitsu gear, gi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, that's JockoStore.com. Subscribe to the podcast. Check out the Jocko Underground. We just recorded a couple episodes of that. Talking interesting information. Talk about keeping our own little platform. We have our own little platform. We don't own this platform that you're listening to unless you're in Jocko Underground right now. But we don't own, uh, iTunes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't own Spotify. We don't own YouTube. We get kicked off any of those. I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We talked about the Nazis today. Will that get us kicked off? Oh yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've been flagged a few times. And that's kind of what prompted this jockawonderground.com. Because we don't know when we're going to get kicked off for saying something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, if you want to support that $8.18 a month, we appreciate it. Check out the YouTube channel. Check out Psychological Warfare. Check out flipsidecanvas.com. Dakota Meyer, making awesome stuff to hang on your wall. I've written a bunch of books. Check them out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know what they are. Echelon Front. Talked about that a little bit today. Leadership Lab. FTX. We got the muster coming up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I think that's the next one is in Atlanta. Hotlanta! October 12th to the 14th. We sold out all these things. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want to come, get there early, register, go to ExtremeOwnership.com for our, or that's echelonfront.com. If you want to do online training, go through some courses, you want to understand this stuff at a deeper level, go to ExtremeOwnership.com and take some courses, some online courses. I'll be sitting there telling you what's up. You can come and ask me questions. ExtremeOwnership.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you want to do your duty from a charity perspective, check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a great charity organization. And if you want to donate to her,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Organization or you want to get involved go to americasmightywarriors.org and you've also got heroesandhorses.org. Micah, he's up there in the wilderness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're wrapping up their course right now, 41 days out in the bush. Reconnecting with your soul.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Echo and I are in there, but look, just be careful. Fair warning. The algorithms there. The brainwashing out. People getting brainwashed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the Nazis. You're getting brainwashed too. When you're staring at that little screen. Don't let it happen. Watch out for the algorithm. And finally, salute to the greatest generation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In our world, so a salute to them. And also, thanks to the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines that are out there right now, as we speak, holding the line.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thank you to all of you. And the same goes to our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, and all the first responders that keep us safe every day. Thank you for holding the line here at home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what we've got for today. Every day is a battle. Go get in the fight. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I really want to believe the one about the first casualty of World War II.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This implies that the debrief to me, you know, it's like not, not being satisfied with it by looking back at it and saying, Hey, how could we do this better? Did we miss anything or is there something we should add to this? And then debriefing it and then trying to, you know, trying to get them the next evolution.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the team dynamic, you know, moral courage in a, in a team, especially if there's like social proof against you, right? The rest of the team thinks one thing and you think,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you're being morally courageous and that's not what the team thinks. And that can put some, some pressure on you as a individual now against the team and your views versus theirs. That's a little different dynamic as opposed to moral courage as an individual. I'm going to do the right thing because that's the right thing to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but you throw that in a team dynamic, it gets a little, little more difficult.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is one of those things that I see right away when there's a lack of it, you know, and it, it, I don't get bothered by a ton of stuff, but lack of consideration is one of those things that just, it gets to me a little bit, you know, it's like, how, how do you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's that healthy sense of self-doubt you've talked about before. I think that, you know, Jamie's a perfect example of where, you know, if you believe you're right, how often are you really believing that you're 100% right? If that's, if that's a pretty regular thing,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If she starts to get some feedback, she has that humility to say, what am I not seeing here? How can, you know, how can I solve this problem? Yeah. Yeah. Don't put yourself in that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're in a lose-lose situation, bro. Hey, I'm just happy to be here, man. You know? Just happy to be here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were talking about that, you know, the Tim Kennedy podcast, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course, I'm up, I was talking about that on that last podcast, I'm up to two milkshakes a day now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Might help you on the path. Uh, Echo has been busy too on some, some new discipline equals freedom shirts. Really? Some new ones. Yeah, go check those out. Uh, some new colors on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is. It is. It's super clean and then we've got the Dean List on there as well. The Dean List.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've got the foot, the foot. Yeah. But also shirt locker, a new shirt every month with that. And we've been just going, going pretty hard on those. Um, the, uh, the last month was, was pretty awesome. If you, if you get what was last month's shirt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, real quick, the, you know, the fellowship program or your job at the White House. How often do you see the President?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the one key takeaway. It's kind of a reminder, something that I guess, yeah, yeah, I guess you talk about this. But anyway, he said on a few occasions, process can save lives. The process.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dude. I'm not saying I have all the processes for all things, for sure, but I get distracted from the process kinda easy, even though I know


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, if I stick to the process, the chances of success go way up. Exponentially.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think that's kind of like, and I think about myself and I think how generally speaking this can be the case, where if you allow that to happen, like whether it be because of stress, because of, you know, just whatever kind of distraction or whatever, that's, that's how it works. Where if you just stick to the process, you can keep yourself out of a lot of trouble. Even in, like, hectic kind of situations. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like the process can be somewhat flexible, but the process is the process for a reason. It's like, okay, so think of it in terms of like jujitsu for example. Like when things start to get, you know, let's say I'm rolling with you, and you know, you start turning up the heat on me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of a sudden, for whatever reason that's going on in your head, I can't get all panicky and start going off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Natural like instinct, I gotta stick to the technique. See what I'm saying? Sure, I can turn on my urgency, but stick to the process, which is the technique. That's a good idea. Stick to what you've learned, like that kind of stuff. That's a version of the process.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but they're not- it- well, then again, I can't read just mine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm, put it this way, they're not doing, they don't do that, they don't do that because they get distracted or taken out of their game, they do that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you predict- Jeffy Glover just did it. I know you can't read Jeff Swine or Pete the Greek or anyone for that matter, but would you say, yes or no, would you say that turning his back, done out of creativity, do you think that's part of his process?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Trust your process. Hey, if there's a process in place, I'm saying. If there's a process in place, go ahead, uh, trust it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is it beneficial for me to involuntarily go all crazy hard back?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what? Complacency, distraction, panic. These are all things that can make you deviate from the process.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then which kind of goes along to my secondary thing, take away, which is how, and you guys say this a lot all the time too, it's like staying calm. Really make it a point to stay calm. Which kind of can be rolled into the process, right? Not only is it part of the process, potentially,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, okay, so the process is, we're, we're main, and here's the thing too, this is important. Follow me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in life, life process, no matter if you're, no matter what your job, career, whatever. You have certain things in life that if you do stick to, don't get distracted, complacent, or panic about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes you can. So the process is work out, eat good, take relevant supplements.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some people take irrelevant supplements in my opinion. So take relevant supplements, you stick to that process, now you're on the right track.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Subscription automatically comes to you. Uhm, very creative, I guess, for lack of a better term, but yes, very good, positive feedback in that one. So check that one out at Jocko's store.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so the meme, I don't know, I think you might be right, but maybe the re- Kermit the Frog is drinking tea and he says, the meme will always say something, something, something, but that's none of my business.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Know that, so technically the, uh, the female drama when there's the same outfit in the same location is opposite with males. It's opposite.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Either way, shirt locker, shirts, jocko store stuff, no exception. You're gonna feel the camaraderie is what you're gonna feel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, there's some new stuff on there. On YouTube.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like this other Top Gun review, like some kind of one-off videos.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty solid, the top one on the... I put some underground clips on there too, for the people. Just so they can get a little taste of what's going on down there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course. What do you got? I'm gonna keep it, I'm gonna try to keep it short.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The value of playing hard to get in like dating and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so the, I mean on a kind of a more positive note, you can kind of use it as like in the courting phase we'll say. Like don't just throw yourself at somebody because you kind of jam their system up a little bit, right? Yeah, I mean, you know what?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. So, essentially with great power.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Comes great responsibility. Absolutely. That's how guys get friend zoned though. That's how you get friend zoned. You can be like a, what do you call, like a catch, but you give too much too quick, you get friend zoned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's like, yeah, basically the girl doesn't have like sexual attraction to the guy even though the guy is like the perfect guy. But it's usually because the guy positions himself below the girl, like he worships her too quick or something like this, and the girl's like, oh, he's not like a challenge, you know? Dating sounds complicated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bro, you could have taken like one of those questions that you kinda like said and like do four hours just on that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, well, depends on what portion. You know, sometimes I suspect that sometimes they do 2x, sometimes they do 1x. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With this one, I don't know man, this is the kind where bruh, you don't wanna listen to a 2X. You wanna get, that's gonna go, some of that stuff's gonna go over your head.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's true. I was surprised though, as you probably could tell, that he wasn't as familiar with the idea of the friend zone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause I think, this is just, this is my hypothesis, my neurobiological hypothesis, that the friendzone, yes sir, the friendzone is a direct result.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would've had more influence over that. But it's true, I think it's a direct result of this, uhm, of not understanding the variable reward. If you're just like, oh yeaah, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That in and of itself creates a lack of variable reward. That's a problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she's gonna keep you around for that, whatever, the serotonin, you know, but there's no real, there's no real dopamine because of that, of that phenomenon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes sir. And think about it, and he said he straight up takes alpha GPC, takes it as a supplement except when he's drinking the go, because alpha GPC. He mentioned the theni and all the benefits of whatever. Hey look, we kept it cool. We're not gonna make a big deal out of it, but it just happens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those of us that know about Maine, yea, we know that. But I think that's a hella good is like, like when you first said it, I was like, wait, what is the reason for that? Still remains a mystery. Nonetheless, you're correct. Yup, it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't wanna split hairs here, but this might be small tangent, but I think it's important. DIY has like a contextual element to it. It's short for do it yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, so put it this way, DIY doesn't mean do it yourself, and do it yourself is D-I-Y, but not all D-I-Y means all the things that do it yourself means.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a technicality that may or may not be important. When you say DIY, if I say hey,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you just did it yourself, like kind of makeshift. It has a makeshift, like kind of quality kind of feel to it. See what I'm saying?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, JockoStore, which started as a DIY scenario, uhm, but it's not anymore. It's a well, uh, you know, varying levels of met, uh, oiled machine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right now. Got some good stuff on there. Got some Discipline Equals freedom. Shirts and hats. Hoodies. Merch, if you will. But it's good quality stuff, not just some cheap stuff. It's good quality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, many people, and when I say many, I mean for real, like countless, not the guy like three, like countless people have said, it's my favorite shirt, not just because of the design and the representing on the path, but because of how it fits.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so this is why I remember that, because there are other shirt companies that do, you know, like the kind of shirt companies that make fun shirts, like, that are knock-up, like a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, there's a few that I saw that had that same thing. It said, I'm something, something, something, like something real impressive. And then it said, but I only got this lousy t-shirt. It was like, that's how I remembered it. Yep. That's, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, horrible incident.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They offered you a billet in Saigon and you said, nah, I'm not going to sit around here. I'm a-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And one of the things I think is really funny about my story is I didn't understand how I got here until much, much later, looking back and trying to figure it out. For a very long time, I was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was one of those folks when people would say, so why did, why did you go into psychology? Why did you become a psychologist? I would say things like, oh I just like helping people. I'm a good listener. I'm interested in how the mind works. Which are, are true things?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But really going back and taking a more in-depth look at my journey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It started when I was a kid. You know, I had some pretty serious physical limitations and physical illnesses that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, kept me out of school for a long time. I did not take a single PE class my entire scholastic career.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I remember being really young and thinking, like, is this it? Like, is this it? Can there be some other?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was diagnosed when I was two. Two with like really severe respiratory uhm, and lung problems. And back then,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, we're talking early 70s, right? Like treatment was not as it is now. People didn't understand. I mean, my mom talks about how I was sick as a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, treatments weren't as advanced as they are now. So growing up, all through, you know, elementary school, junior high, high school, feeling very separate and different and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not included and knowing that people, you know, thought I was kind of weird. How come you don't come to all the things? How come you don't take PE? How come you sit in on recess when we all go outside? Right? Which on one hand doesn't sound, I mean, whatever, it's the plight of a kid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But when I really look back and think about it, it was that sense of feeling alone and really misunderstood and not included in things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wondering, like there's gotta be more. Like this can't be it. This just cannot be it for, for me, for people. So early on, I remember thinking, when I grow up,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I want to be a doctor, I want to be somebody who helps, basically helps people like me. Again, in a young brain thinking, well if I feel like this, probably everybody feels like this. And I don't want people to feel like this, so maybe I'll help kids, or I'll help people with...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Respiratory problems or I'll help people with medical illnesses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it just kind of developed that way, this idea of wanting to, I don't know, in some way help ease the suffering that other people experience and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And make sense of, of what was going on. Now again, I don't remember it like this at the time in my mind, I just wanted to help people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was like, yeaah, so overachie- I mean, for what I couldn't do over here, I made up for it. Way over here. So, lots of good grades, lots of degrees, lots of academic awards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but it, also, again, it, the, the inside of this came through hindsight is I was so curious about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How that left you feeling, or me, feeling uhm, like lonely and depressed and kind of like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wanting more, right? So I got a little, a little bit more curious in the, like, psychological department of what happens for people who have an illness, what happens for people who


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just, you know, kind of a fascination with uhm, well, how the mind works and, and, and, you know, in some ways unlike


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A person might have in reaction or relation to all of these different events, you don't see them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, you know, go into a doctor and take a listen to your head and go, oh, I recognize that clicking, I know exactly what to do. There are these kind of invisible, unseen experiences that make it a little bit more


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Challenging to figure out or understand what exactly is going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so that curiosity, I just remember high school probably going into college.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do grades, you know, do, so, so this kind of curiosity about how the mind influences the experiences. And uhm, I remember sitting in a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kind of a pathology class, kind of a mental illness, class on mental illness and the pathology of illness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Help people. You just want to do good in the world. You know, me, the good student, me, me, uhm, along with most of the other class. And he's like, okay, how many of you in here?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Think that you have chosen this field or chosen this, uh, part of the field.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone's like, not me, not me, not a hand, or maybe like half a hand. Uhm, and by the end of that class, it was the reverse. Everybody was like, yep, I've got my own stuff, I need to work out, that's partly why I'm here. Right? So that started the, uhm, I think the kind of budding awareness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Understanding myself and hopefully through the process, being able to take that experience and help other people, whether that's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not feel so alone or understand that there are options available or that this isn't kind of the fate of your life, uhm, because you have this illness or this experience. So yeaah, I definitely have swung from here, like I'm just really altruistic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like you, you kind of inherit a little bit of that along the way. So my curiosity over time, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A client we saw at the treatment center for a long time who had schizophrenia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two siblings, a sister who did not have schizophrenia, a brother who did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Parents were really, really lovely, great people, did not seem to have a lot of stuff going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the dad's brother, the dad had three brothers, he was 104, all three of them had schizophrenia. So this idea, right, of like, okay, some of this,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is passing down through generations, not just at a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do these things happen? How do they go from here to here to here to here?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I got a bachelor's degree in psychology, which unfortunately in our field nowadays, that doesn't mean a whole lot other than you went to school for a few years and learned a bunch of things about the brain. Got my master's in counseling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also in California and then got my doctorate in clinical psychology down here in San Diego. Got it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I can interrupt, I remember you telling a story one time, Megan, about like having to dig, dig holes to sleep in the ground.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And having like your gun there because of like how big the scorpions were. And like having to protect yourself and guard yourself from the scorpions while you're in a hole in the desert at 127 degrees and you're like 19.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, well there's, gosh, there's so many, it's hard to, to narrow them down, and like I was saying earlier, so many of these things are,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're unseen, they're invisible, they can't be, like, located so much on a map, so to speak. Uhm, but things like temperament.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, like the kind of the traits and characteristics that we're born with are gonna play a role. Our upbringing, of course. Like I'm thinking when you would share that story about being in Kuwait and I'm like, first of all, I would have never made it there. But like, I don't think I could have done that. Now is it, do I not have a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My early upbringing, right? Where just living was hard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That would have been at this whole other level for me. So my, my history. So people's histories. Uhm, messages like in the family. Like that's a, that, and this is my opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like for example, I like to ask families or family members sometimes, so, how did you guys do feelings?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most of the time you're going to have folks say, oh, we don't talk about feelings. We don't actually do feelings. Oh, okay. So when something


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Difficult happens, you know, you get bullied at school, you...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh nothing, we just had dinner. You know, right, so right here, right, there's something. A family that didn't...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Acknowledge feelings, talk about feelings, have a way to pro- like process what was happening is going to have a certain effect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That person is going to be shaped very differently in terms of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Managing stress and managing conflict and negotiating hardship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Almost like traditions around things like feelings or how you handle hardship. I mean, I'm, the book I'm writing right now has a lot to do with the impact of secrets. So, and finding that that has a big, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're just not going to talk about that. We're not going to talk about it amongst ourselves. We're not going to share this with the outside world, under the rug, in the vault, whatever you want to call it. So you think about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, it's not going to affect everybody the same way, but how easy it would be for a person then to develop, especially if they're young, this idea that like, oh, when


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When bad things happen or when difficult things happen, you're not supposed to talk about that. You're supposed to keep it to yourself. Don't, don't share. So what happens for those folks who are faced with something difficult or faced with a hard decision or faced with a stressful, uhm, circumstance?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I'm just acknowledging what you're going through. I'm not trying to change it. I'm not making it wrong. I'm not telling you, you should be doing something different. And that's, that brings out that safety piece. And in fact, some research into resiliency. So speaking to, how come some kids kind of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bounce back and get better and some kids really flounder over here. Uhm, some of the research shows that there needs to be opportunities to make mistakes and like not be essentially shamed or


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you got more, that's even better, but you need to have one adult that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is kind of a safe guide. Like as somebody that you can feel safe with, that's gonna kinda get ya. And say, you know what buddy, it's alright, sorry that one did not work out so well, we'll try it again tomorrow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shaming, you're wrong, how come you did that, you should know better, like those kind of things. So resiliency is about having adults, especially as kids, having adults that can say, yep, you know what, sometimes it's just like that, I'm sorry, but it's okay, you'll be fine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's look over here. Oh, that doesn't really seem to be the problem. Let's try this over here. Now personally what I have found is, uhm, and not everybody works this way. This is totally fine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What did you experience and how was that managed in the family? Because I see those things as they shape. So now we have this tapping that's happening right now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where there's something probably that went on back then that has to do with it. Some therapists, some psychologists don't, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They look at like what's happening right now and how do we move it forward. They are not gonna spend a lot of time in the past. It's a preference. But I mean I can't...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sure. Right? Somebody, I mean, my, uhm, some of my earlier years in private practice, I worked a lot with eating disorders. And, because I was also still learning and, you know, didn't have as much experience as I would have within a few years,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, it's meal plan. This person is afraid of getting fat, this person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things they're more popular if they're skinny, whatever. All of these things. So we would kind of target those.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Behaviors. Let's get you on a good meal plan. Let's talk about self-esteem, etc., etc. Over the years, it was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean it was kind of insane how much I discovered through looking back, like there was trauma in there, or uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, like, uhm, abuse, like, often, especially with girls, you'd see like a sexual assault or sexual abuse, uhm, sometimes that's something that was happening in the family that was not being talked about, would be, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kind of stuffed down and then expressed through these behaviors. So, uhm, almost psychologically you can interpret that a little bit as if we're spending all of our time over here on meal plans and weight gain and weight loss, what are we not looking at?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret over here that nobody wants to talk about, right? So sometimes finding an origin, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then you treat the origin, the issue over here versus the symptoms, right? Kind of like the analogy I've used a million times even with clients is if you come in with like a severe, like with pneumonia, a severe case of pneumonia and the only thing we're doing is giving you some cough syrup to help your cough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like that's gonna help a little bit, I mean it's gonna help you feel a tiny bit better, but nothing, in fact you might even get worse if we don't really treat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty much. I mean, and that's the mechanic work, right? Is your, your kind of digging and, and you know, sometimes the person will know, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had this thing happen and I think my symptoms are related to this. Sometimes they're not aware.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And long story short, just to, to get to this point is months and months of meeting with her and like, oh, what about this? And I don't know. What about that? She says, well, um, you know, my mom,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Said she didn't want me to talk about this, but I, I feel like I should.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think I was molested by my cousin when I was like 12.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really very sad, uhm, kind of horrible story about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Learning that she, like, learning something at school that made her think, oh my god, I think that happened to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going home, telling her parents, and her parents like, do not tell anybody about this, this is gonna ruin everybody's life, la la la la. Right? Just, don't talk about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Stuff down and kind of channeled in this way that she could control her environment a lot of time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, a lot of the time. So we start unpacking this, and it turns out, as she tells me about this,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In some class at school and they were talking about something and she like almost like misinterpreted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this, for years, there was this whole thing that had happened in her family where she said she had been molested, but she really wasn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They thought she was. Shut it down. Didn't let anybody talk about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Soon as we got there, and we got it, and she was, I mean, she bought in. She was like, oh my god, I had no idea. At this point, she's maybe 18. I think I started seeing her when she was 15.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like all of a sudden, it was like all that symptomology went away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, it didn't vanish overnight because she'd been doing those behaviors for a long time, but that clarity of like, oh, this is what this was about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It cleared up, right? Like you said, it kind of brought it into the light. We could address what the real problem was, and then the symptoms, the cough, so to speak, alleviated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the root, the core had been addressed. So there is a lot in, in psychological practice and treatment that does involve some. And it took you years, three years to get through this. And I saw her every week. Because she, and she was really like, I was told not to talk about this. So she kind of knew something was back there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well yeaah, so she said she was at school one day and they were doing one of these assemblies, right, where you're giving like the kids education on, you know, healthy touch and inappropriate touch, like she said, you know, maybe she's 15 at this time. She was also a very immature, only child, a little bit sheltered, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so she said, so I, this thing was happening and I told my friend, oh my God, I think I might have been molested because this thing happened with my cousin. So I'm like, okay, so can you tell me what happened with your cousin? So she tells me this event, which was really like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At a party one night, like all the cousins and aunts and uncles, the kids decided to like, like play a joke and like skinny dip. Like they all went into the pool house, like stripped off their clothes and like ran into the pool and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Made a big joke and everyone got in trouble because the parents were there and this kind of thing. And she goes, it was my cousin's idea. Okay. She goes, so he molested me, right? I'm like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we went back and walked through the event, she goes, well no, it was, it was my cousin's idea, but like we all did it, no one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No one touched anybody. It was, we thought it would be funny. So, tragic. I mean, this is a, this, to me, and she did


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once we got there, she did beautifully, she's off at college, I mean...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doing wonderfully, but the years, right, of a misunderstanding of something that happened, it was all like the telephone game, right? She told this person, they told this, it just by the time it arrived at her parents, it was this whole other thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or even how many times we've had uhm, like somebody come into the treatment program and the parents say well,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We thought everything was great. He's at college, like he seems like he's fine, but we started getting calls from his friends. Hey, we think something's going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not really coming out anymore, seems to be hanging out in his room all the time. But then we call him and he says he's okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A more common scenario that we've experienced is like everything was fine, star athlete, blah blah blah, goes to college, seems to be making friends, decided to start smoking weed a little bit, and then boom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, it sets something off. Again, some people can smoke weed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That will not happen. Uhm, yeaah, there's some theory and hypothesis that some people, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can be like predisposed for schizophrenia or psychosis, but it not necessarily come out, but it will under certain conditions, and sometimes drug use is one of those. So you can have somebody who's predisposed, like has genetic loading, and never kind of becomes, you know, systematic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sure, we've had folks come in, like the one person I'm thinking about was uhm, I think he was in his freshman year at college. Again, great student.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Running around outside, like half naked, like kinda, kinda crazy, screaming and doing weird things, and they're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you, are you, did you call the right people? That is not my kid. Well, he had smoked, he had never done drugs or, you know, maybe he had a little bit, but smoked weed and he couldn't, he's like, I don't know, someone just gave it to me. So who, who knows what was in there? Well, it did something to this guy's brain. I mean, it just scrambled him. He did not know what way it was up or down, went into the hospital.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They brought him to us for treatment, never been in treatment, I mean had never had anything happen like this before. He was, uhm, he was back in school I think by the next semester. Like he needed, he came in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Diagnosis-wise it was a substance-induced psychosis.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, there was no more psychosis. He cleared. So really, it was just helping him almost like recover from...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was a traumatic event and he was embarrassed and had all the shame. You know, there was like a lot of stuff he had to kind of process and recover from and then he went back to college.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wanna go? Yeah, well, it's uhm, well, you said it earlier, it's a break in reality. It's like psychosis typically is defined as a break in contact with reality. And what's interesting though about psychosis, and I say this in the presentation and in the book, is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People can be psychotic, people can be psychotic, have a psychotic episode and it not be related to a mental illness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anesthesia? Like under anesthesia, people have reported hallucinating?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Seen something that isn't there, feeling, hearing something, or delusion, right, like a belief that somebody's following me, somebody's watching me, uhm, somebody's out to get me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was telling one of my friends the other day in supervision that one of my very first patients who had schizophrenia and he was pretty severe, uhm, had a belief that he was like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Funny, he would be like, oh my god, Karlyn, remember last week when I told you I thought I was Ram Dass?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he wouldn't. Like then sometimes he wouldn't. He'd be like so in it and very like fixed that you, you really couldn't, uhm, kind of talk him out of it so to speak.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, I think about some of the clients I've seen for the longest. I mean, I have relationships with these folks. I know these guys. You know these guys. Like, I can tell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, and I can, because I have rapport, I always joke like you've heard me say this in supervision. Like, I'm sometimes surprised myself with how much I can get away with saying. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I have enough rapport where I know the person's gonna be able to handle it, even if it's something like, I have a client, this literally just happened, I said, you sound like a crazy person right now. And she's like, I know, don't I? I said, you kinda do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I wouldn't say that to everybody, and if I didn't have that kind of relationship with a different client, I'm not gonna say that, that could be construed as like rude and very not PC, right, but with her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if I were to say that to her say one afternoon and she, she, she can't pull it together or she...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How dare you say that to me? Or she, you know, reacts in a way that's different than my experience of her typically. You know, that's gonna be my discerning clue of like, okay, this might be something a little bit more than she's just, you know, having a moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, I kinda pulled the like, come on, get your shit together, I know you can do this. And it works.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Slow it down and maybe ask more questions instead of say, hey, come on, get it together and move on. It might be like, so what's happening?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ask a little bit more to see if more comes out, but the uhm, I think there's a place for both. People really, especially people who are very disorganized internally, which you will see more with psychosis, or just in a funk, in their depression, in their grief, whatever, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, they need the, they need actually like the scaffolding on the outside. Somebody to say, okay, you know what, you need to get up, go take a shower, brush your teeth, meet me in the kitchen in 15 minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like that kind of direction actually helps gel some of the looseness that's happening internally when someone's really struggling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's substantial, and I think it is, uhm, with the onset. In fact, I think it, around like when smartphones happened. Oh yeaah. That's where I kinda, like the internet was already there, you could go online and look at a bunch of stuff, but at your fingertips? Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now with uhm, you know, Instagram and all the thi- I mean, you're just constantly looking who's doing what, who's saying what, who's endorsing what, who's against what, and the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A conversation with you or asking you your opinion about something or going to you to talk about something that might be on my mind. I'm looking to see who's saying what and what are other people doing about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In addition to what you were saying earlier about, like, the self-diagnosing. Oh, I read it, you know, how many times, especially with the adolescents I see. Oh, I read an article, I think I have OCD. In my mind, I'm like, no you don't, let's talk about that. Or, oh, I read an article and this is happening to me so I think I might have stomach cancer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll send you to the doctor if you want to have that checked out, but let's talk about your, that you woke up with a stomach ache, because you have a job interview this afternoon that you kind of don't want to go to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's talk about that instead. But no, I looked online. I looked online. If you wake up with a stomach ache, it means this, right? So this, whether it's looking up symptoms and diagnoses or what this means or what other people are doing or what other people are saying about what other people are doing, it's just, uhm, it's like it's defined. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Having things just available right, right now, right now is uhm, like I think about when I, like growing up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not having that immediate gratification.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I and people in my generation and people who didn't have access to some of these things developed, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Patience and tolerance skills, like I could wait even if I really, really, really want to talk to you. Like I can, I can wait and not fall apart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a client, well I still see her, but when she was younger.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The very self-diagnose he has no tolerance for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Delayed gratification or patience because everything, right? Everything is an immediate answer. If you, if I text you and you have not, if I see the dots and then you don't


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get back to me, like, you know, this kind of thing. So, she did something and got herself in trouble, so her parents took her phone. She said, if you take my phone, I am gonna kill myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can't not have my phone. They put her in the car and took her to the emergency room.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And of course, by the time they walk in, she's like, nevermind, I won't kill myself, I'll get my phone back whenever you want to give it to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it was that instant, like, I can't, I can't live. Like, I, I cannot not have my phone. And she has no, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was probably 15 or 16 at this point, like old enough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but I think about all the parents that would be like, oh, oh my, okay, never, never mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So now you just reinforced that if you're upset or you don't think you can handle something, I'll make it easy for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What do you do, right? Like if I want to talk to you and you're not answering the phone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I'm not gonna just like sit there, like right now people sit there, right? They sit on their phone versus like you go do something to manage your anxiety or...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're in a lot of ways are lacking in those skills of just managing their feelings because they don't have to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like a chain, so job interview, right? Well, I don't know, what if I say the wrong thing? What if they ask me a question that I don't know? Well, what if they don't like me? What if I don't get the job? What if, what if, it's that kind of chaining together, so next thing you know, like, I might as well just not even, I might as well kill myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean it can go, it can go in a lot of different ways, but this like persistent,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] proportionate to the situation. Like it's, it's one thing to have some nervousness. I have this big job interview. I really want this job. I hope they like me. I'm a little bit


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My stomach hurts a little bit. That's one thing, but that disproportion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I know we were talking about this before recording, that uhm, when somebody is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Weighing pros and cons and anticipating outcomes and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, kind of making decisions and thinking things through is almost like not available. It's almost offline. You can think about it like it got knocked offline because my nervous system is a wreck. So the person really can't make really good decisions when they're that, uhm, kind of escalated. So treatment will, like, undoubtedly, no matter what, include


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Helping a person learn skills and techniques to like calm their, like literally calm their physical body down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you gotta get the body to be able to relax enough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, let's look at that. Cognitive behavioral therapy, cognitive techniques will address some of those, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, mental health and illness issues are going to require both. But for anxiety, you really need both. The physical and the cognitive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you know, what you said earlier actually about like a person who might already be a little bit, say be predisposed to like conspiracy, right? So with personality disorders, it's, it's not


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kind of in most situations you're going to see. So paranoid it might be,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not the, the helicopters are chasing me. That, that's probably, you're more in the, uhm, psychotic, psychosis realm there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Personality disorders might be just kind of a general paranoia, like, well, you know, every time I go to work, uhm, I say hi to the girl at the desk and she says, and say hi to me, I think she doesn't like me, she probably, x, y, z, like a, like a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I found it at home later that night, but like, my predisposition is paranoid versus psychosis, which is going to be the helicopters are chasing me, the lights are secretly, you know, filming me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'll see, especially in what's considered cluster B, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People who have been adopted, given up her adoption early on, or, or in a way that was, uh, left them for some period of time without kind of a secure, like a parent or authority attachment, uhm, clients who,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, like I have one client who is, she's the, the definition of that was, um, neglected, like severely neglected when she was a child. So this anxiety of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, like am I, am I safe? Can I rely on you? Can I trust you? So these are, they can be rough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Judgmental derogatory way, I would say like, oh, they're absolutely seeking attention, but not because they're just being like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reality check, like right, kind of sort through some of these big extreme thoughts that I have, to be like, are they really that realistic? And then, like you have said a couple times, Megan, the reparative experiences, like uhm, you know, how many times did you think, like I have a client who, for the longest time, she would show up like 15, 20 minutes early to her session.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because she had this idea that what if she's not out there at the time of our session and I forget we had a session and I leave.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which first of all would never ever happen in a million years, ever. But like, this was the one who grew up with a lot of neglect. Grew up with parents saying, oh yea, I'll be home in a few hours, and they didn't come home, or they forgot about her. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you can see where like the early stuff shaped this, but a lot of our work was, it wasn't just like saying, hey, we've had 72 sessions and I've been here every time, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Isn't that enough? That wasn't not enough for her. Like she needed to really go through the experience of not


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Relying on me to be there on time so that she felt better. She had to learn how to do that for herself. It's that external scaffolding versus the internal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and it's more like maintenance. I see her once or twice a month. I used to see her two, three times a week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the level of distress and interference in her life, like she couldn't work, her relationships were a mess, she was on all these medications, I mean,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She had a really, really messy life because this is how she lived it. This is how she approached almost every relationship she had in her world. So now, like, she's working, she's got kids, she's, she's got back from like, gosh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As opposed to some of the other personalities, like the histrionic borderline in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Easily, easily wounded with words. Very, very sensitive. But you're gonna see somebody kind of melt down and cry. And, oh my gosh, I can't believe you said that to me. You know, like, like kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Collapse a little bit. With narcissism. Lash out. Lash out. And like cut you off, out, gone. Yep. Like just cannot tolerate. Like kind of being challenged.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, several. And I think, like we said before, there's, people can have like kind of traits and like leanings and inclinations and that's one thing versus it being at a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So somebody who's a little bit more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, extreme might be, like OCD might be, say, germs, right? So they don't, I don't want to touch doorknobs, shake hands, use public restrooms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, the only restroom here is a public room and you gotta go in there or hold it. Like, you know, that's gonna be very distressing for somebody that leans a little bit more towards obsessions and compulsions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Seems like in that age range, like maybe middle school going into high school, like right, somewhere in there where a lot of social things are happening, like your life is kind of socially driven, your friends, access to your friends, what everybody else is doing, you're growing up, maybe starting to think about college, things like that, where there was this instant, you know, kind of a halt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And people were not going to school and having to do their classes online and not seeing their friends. So I saw a lot, especially in the younger population, almost uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like an arrested development of social development. So now like, yeaah, my clients who are...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 2021, 22, but you're talking to them and you're like, wow, you really sound like 16 or 17 years old right now. Like they kind of stalled out in the natural progression. I mean, my,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My niece and my nephew, uhm, one was graduating college and one was graduating high school right when COVID happened. So like that May or whatever. So like, no graduations, no...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the pomp and circumstance that comes with these milestones and rites of passage in life, they didn't have those.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They seem to fare okay, but I think about all the folks that, like, well, what did that mean for their lives or, uhm, the sense of missing out on something important and not having had the same opportunities and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I saw a lot of anxiety, lot of anxiety, depression, isolation, fear, so much fear. I actually was on a podcast a couple weeks ago where we were talking about uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think with uhm, especially in the treatment world and at Anu for sure, uhm, a lot of our clients come in, the ones who have been in the system for a bit, this is like not their first rodeo, there is that identity that has almost been adopted a lot of the times, like I'm schizophrenic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When will my symptoms go away? Right? This, this lack of what you're talking about is like, it's totally normal that that's happening today. I get, yesterday you felt great and today you woke up thinking these things that you weren't thinking yesterday. Yes, we're gonna move and march toward


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look, what can we do about it? What can we do to help you feel better? Sometimes it's just going and having your cry over there and then come back on over. Probably fine. But the idea of validating is what, like you're talking about. It's like, yep, that's happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Normalized people being seen, people, uh, supporting versus.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you doing that? Over time, it gets less and less.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's true, and with PTSD, a lot of other things too, a lot of other, uhm, conditions or diagnosis. I mean, I've heard this so many times, we definitely hear it at the treatment center for people who've been maybe


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your whole life, every time you hear that song, you might feel a little something going on there and that's okay. Like it's totally normal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I think there's like an agency thing, which I think shows up in a lot of your work. I mean, even just what you've shared today, is people say like, oh, I, I, I'm feeling so much, I'm gonna call my psychiatrist, I'm gonna call the doctor. I need to, I need something for this, is very external. One instant gratification, but also this,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Side effects or whatever, but this sense of I don't have, I don't have what it takes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Give or take, it may take longer. Cause this person maybe has not been sleeping well at all. Uh, not eating well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like maybe they've been using, maybe they haven't. Poor hygiene. Caffeine. Smoking. I mean you name it. So just like getting somebody eating.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Structuring some habits throughout the day. You would be amazed how much changes just in that little period of time. And we've talked with folks that uhm, and this is also related to the meds, is sometimes when people have, they're seen multiple doctors, or they go in and they see a different doctor every time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And who, and they may not be coordinating. So you're just getting all kinds of meds and things that may not even really go together. So same with diagnoses. We've had folks come in with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Comfortable, showering, like all the things. The basic psychological and physical wellness and safety. And guess what? Almost all of these diagnoses go away. Maybe we're left with like these couple right here.