[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then took it upon ourselves to destroy the villages because the North, North Vietnamese were coming in at night using these places and shelling our units. So we were destroying all these little hamlets. In fact, I had an engineer company assigned to me and one of the contests was between the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Captain who was the engineer coming to commander and myself, I'd be up on my chopper and he'd be down on the ground and he was going to implode these villages. Now if he imploded them all, he won. If any of the villages buildings would still be standing, I won. Now what did we win? A beer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More often than not, I won. He didn't win anymore. He didn't lose many, but we got, so, in the spring of 1967, Ambassador Ellsworth Bunker arrives in Vietnam. The first unit he wants to visit is mine. There is, everybody is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, he gets out there and all the, now he's got a four-star general.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we're out in the middle of nowhere. I'm briefing the ambassador. I get emotional when I say this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Village and all the people and causing all this commotion. What are you doing and why are you doing it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I explained to him that why we were doing it, because they were, these villages were being havens for the North, and they were coming in and shelling our, killing our troops. And I'll always remember him saying, Colonel, you just keep doing what you're doing, and I'll take care of the French. And I said, God bless you. I mean, I still get emotional with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically we, the mission was search and destroy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what we did was go find, try to find the enemy and then destroy him. Uh, so in that, in the Michelin plantation, we thought the enemy was not there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we spent, uh, there was something called the Iron Triangle, north of Saigon, about 30 miles north of Saigon, which was our operational area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In Korea, I couldn't tell the difference between a North Korean and a South Korean. I still could never tell the difference between a South Vietnamese and a North Vietnamese.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And maybe there's a way, but I never figured it out. And so, we just went in and constantly were searching and destroying. And if we, if we find the enemy in strength, our job was to hold him there until General Pugh and the good


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In more of a firefight than we expected to be, but we...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, who finds who is, is not sure there's an answer to that, but yes, we, more often than not we got in, we had contact, uh, uh, I had, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More than I would like to remit casualties, uh, which didn't happen because they, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Couldn't find the enemy, I can tell you. They could find us, you know, and often remember.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Somebody a long time ago in my career told me something about reconnaissance by fire. And I remember.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The soldiers I served with in three different wars got better. And they were all draftees.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The way you find out is walk around and talk to people. You don't sit in your...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, I told you about my first sergeant calling me Fifi, which pissed me off, quite frankly. But, uh, cause he was a guy


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would like to be able to say to this guy, if I ever saw him again, I'm sure he's dead by now, I told you so. But, you know, if you don't treat people like they should be treated, you deserve to be treated the opposite way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just have always practiced, or tried to practice that anyway. And, uh, so far it's been relatively successful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the way you get to be successful. You know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Working with people, you know, in the civilian sector you hire people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the military, whoever arrived, that was it. You get people. I've always said, your job is to make the boss successful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And vice versa, the boss's job is to make them successful. And if you work that, it works out for both of you. And to me, leadership


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we talk about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's easy if you follow a few basic principles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You don't have to have all the stuff that goes. I mean, people write books on leadership. You've probably written books on leadership yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the fact of the matter, there's some basics and you just expand on it. You don't... It isn't that magic if you just follow a few basic principles.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My wife and I like to travel, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've traveled most of the places in the world by now, and she wanted to go back and see where I'd been in Vietnam. And, uh, I wasn't too sure about that, but anyway, we had this opportunity and, uh, so we went back, uh, and I went to Hanoi, which was an experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, everything you've heard about this place was just, and they showed you some of the cages that they had people in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can't, I can't imagine. I mean, uh, but, you know, when I was there, I was just seeing it from the propaganda and what they were, cause it's, it's a big, uh, tourist attraction apparently for the, the Vietnamese. And, uh, so we obviously saw it and, uh, knew what it was and, and for what it was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I hear all kinds of stories about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The people that were there, you know. But, uh, and then we went from there to Da Nang and then down to Saigon and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hired a car and a guide to take us up, back up to my old operational area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I drove through the Michelin rubber plantation, uh, which was sort of a fun experience to see. Now it's no longer Michelin, it's a state owned, uh, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They took it over, obviously, from the French, but, uh, it looks exactly the same. I mean, trees are lined up, rubber trees, just rubber trees, rubber trees. And, uh, people are out there working the trees, and, uh, I don't know if you know this, which is, this is an aside. You cannot burn a living rubber tree. It won't burn. And I've tried hard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's an amazing experience to see what's, what they've done. You see all these tall buildings now. But, the uhm, one officers club that was on the roof of a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In my time before I went out to the unit, I used to go up there and we'd go up there and you'd watch out here and see the, uh, the sabers, not sabers, uhm, uhm, what do you, what do you call the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rounds that are... Tracers. Tracers, thank you. See all the tracers from being fired up and up and back down and it was sort of a unique experience because you really weren't fighting a war. I mean, in Saigon, you know, it was, it was so different from there when you went out into the field.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Been serious about getting real business and going, and a lot of things happening business-wise. Up north, it's still agrarian.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was still agrarian at the time, very agrarian.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very few tall buildings, very few businesses and so forth that you could identify and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe it's still the same, because that was, that was 11 years ago now, but, uh, and I don't know what's changed over there, but, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The North Vietnamese won the war, so to speak.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I was, I was, one of the missions we had, every evening we'd go into a perimeter and most of the time we'd be in a perimeter around an artillery unit. So they could fire at night without worrying about getting over a run. And so I put all of our unit into its perimeter from my helicopter flying around.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I noticed a bunch of sandpans evacuating the area that we had. So I thought, in my John Wayne feeling, I'm going to go down and shoot some of these guys. So I got the pilot to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was flying in this case, uh, in a, uh, two passenger, I mean one passenger.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, so I had this M40. You know what an M40 is? It fires, looks like a shotgun shell. So I'm up there, and I'm shooting at these guys in the sand pan. And I'm doing pretty good. Missing a lot, but eating some. One of them shot back. And my God, it hit me. In the leg.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I told the chopper pilot, take me back down to the headquarters, which is where the squad and surgeon was, and he,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I couldn't be evacuated. Hell, I had to finish out my tour. I mean, I mean, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, somebody might take me up on it. I've been fortunate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of people got hurt a lot more serious than I've been, uh, uh, and uh, I've seen some. In fact, uh, I've had too many hurt pretty seriously. I had, uh, one of my, uh, my


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exo was in a helicopter and got shot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Up through the seat of the helicopter and all the shrapnel and everything went right into his leg and he was forever, uh, in bad shape. I mean, I mean, so I've seen a lot of people get hurt pretty badly. Uh, I've been, I've been fortunate. I mean,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not too many, I mean, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, they're pretty well protected, and the tanks are, we had patent tanks, and they're protected. So, uh, we had casualties, uh, because in a cavalry troop, we have infantry right in the ACAS, so when they get out, they get hurt. But, I don't know the statistics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Coming back from Vietnam was a sad experience. We thought we'd been doing a good job. We thought we were doing the right job. And I came back to the Pentagon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most of those feelings about what was going on came after I got out of it. I mean, I retired in, in 69 and things began to go to hell in the country about what we were doing over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, right after I got out, I guess. My job, when I got out, I mean, when I came home was at the Secretary of Defense's level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I told you earlier, the army was sending me to school to learn to counteract the whiz kids.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alan N. Tobin's organization, which was called Systems Analysis, and that's where all the whiz kids were. And they had


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were, we were supposed to balance some of these smart young men that were the, quote, whiz kids.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as I tell people, I'm never a whiz or a kid, but I was in that organization. And it was an experience. They wouldn't let me work on anything army.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had, because they knew I had to go back to the army. See, that was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's only so many capital ships. That was by law.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So maybe I asked why there was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can't remember now, I think 13 capital shifts or whatever the number was. I asked, why is that number 13? It took quite a while for them to figure out the answer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it really was very simple, going back to the League of Nations, parley into 2000, I mean, in 1920-something, when they, they parleyed out to the various World War I winners the number of capital ships, i.e. called battleships.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I learned to ask that question because when I was going to Michigan, one of the professors said this was in statistics class.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I was asking this assumption, why is there X number of capital shifts? It was a simple question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Them to try to figure out why there was that number. I don't know what the world is now, but I can tell you at that point, this was in 1968, I guess. That was a question that took a while to answer. By the way,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of it was, I used to listen to people tell me, you just order people to do things and they do it. And I said, that's just a lot of baloney. So I wanted to go and see, cut my, if you would, uh, teeth on, uh, trying something in the civilian world. So, uh, I sent a bunch of resumes out and I eventually, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fellow that hired me was a retired Navy aviator. Who, by the way, uh, was in the side, was assigned to the first squadron, I think it's called, that flew jets off of aircraft carriers. A guy by the name of Felix Jablonski, who was a wonderful man. And, but if you wanted to know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was to figure out how to use, from LTVs, uh, computer resources, how to use these in civilian applications.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the things we did was we developed for Dallas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] X's and O's that they used to do on the chalkboard on the computer screen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It just became a way that apparently Dallas Cowboys would teach the guys how to react to whatever plays it was. So that was using


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our organs, the part that I was in was one from 30 people to four. And I was one of the four.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I don't know, to this day I still don't know why they can't meet because I've just been there less than a year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Previously, offered me a job with computer sciences. I mean, even though I had a job, I knew that this place was not a place that long term was going to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Went to work for computer sciences and they spent 15 years there. And, uh, ended up retiring from there. Uh, as one of the presidents of one of their divisions. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the things that my bosses used to say, I was one of the few leaders they had. They had a lot of managers, but, uh, I was leading a group and we became very successful. Much more so than I ever imagined we could be. It was primarily in sales and marketing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I had a boss that said who was from IBM and strict IBM suit kind of guy, you know, you've heard all stories about, and he said, he said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can say this, I met my wife on my first assignment from the Pentagon. And I, my job in the Pentagon, among other things, was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To control the number of troops on the ground in Vietnam.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Number was met. So when the Secretary of Defense went to Fort Congress, he could always say that we have never...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then people from Hawaii, Thailand, Korea, Philippines, and Hawaii would all meet at the headquarters here up on the hill. And we'd go over, cause when, when Westmoreland,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To replace an ACAC battalion with an infantry battalion, different numbers and everything's different. So we had to do all this monitoring and keeping track of how many troops we had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My wife was a schoolteacher in California and she was over there on a vacation and one of my former colleagues from Vietnam, she knew him and somehow or another we met.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the next two years, we dated cross country. She in California, me in the Pentagon. And I would go every quarter to the Hawaiian Islands for this meeting I'm telling you about. So I planned the meeting to be started on Tuesday so I could fly from here to California, spend some time with her. Then I'd fly off to, off to Hawaiian Islands and then


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the way back, I'd stop into the same scene, and then I'd be back here. So anyway, we got married in, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After I got out, retired in 69 and we got married in October of 69.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She keeps me alive. Takes care of me. I mean, uh, uh, so she's, she's the, the principal reason that I can sit here and talk to you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you all deserve the honor. I mean, you guys...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Twice to Iraq, once for the Somali extraction, plus three other times just deploying, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he'd commute back to, back to Pendleton. I mean, I mean, his wife lived there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody said, well you were in the military. We didn't do it this way. She was never in the military. We moved all the time since then. I mean, you stay in San Diego.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let me start with our company. Oh, Origin. That's the company. OriginMain.com is the website. Um, there you can get, Jocko has supplements. You can get Jocko supplements, Jocko Super Grill Oil for your joints.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Joint warfare for your joints. Don't run out by the way, Dave Burke. You're, I don't know if you've ever been on the, in the situation of running out of Super Krill when you depend on Super Krill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll let you know, yeah. Check. Alright, well there it is. It's a free everything. Pre-mission, pre-workout, pre-test taking, pre-meeting, pre-jiu-jitsu.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I've heard of people not really liking it, but that could have to do with the fact that, you know, like when you drink alcohol too much and it has like, like tequila, we'll have it. Pina colada is like that. If you just drink too many of them, now you can never drink it again. Now if you smell it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nonetheless, it's called discipline. Supreme mission, this, whether you love pina colada or love lemon lime-ish flavor with other delicious factors in it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I will say this, I never was into protein powder. Aside from, you know, when you were in high school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, correct, correct. But this one is one of those good ones where kinda like you and the discipline where you're like pounding it all the time. So, I give my daughter dessert, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And some other stuff. Some sugar in there. And it was good, it was like a solid milkshake. Like a good, almost like you bought it from a gourmet spot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, mint, mint, chocolate, that's a good one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, swollen, lifting, jiu jitsu, all that stuff. Also, gizan rash guards. We can talk about that if you want, unless you have another suggestion on what else I should talk about at this point. I'm, I'm saying I want to do the right thing over here. You know what I'm saying? Dave Burke.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. Well, that's actually good news in my opinion. You know? Cause...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and on top of that, not to mention, the cotton that was loomed right there in the building by the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, all good. So yeah, you, uhm, good, good, Dave Burke, boom, Origin Gee. No history of discomfort in other geese.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, I will, but I will say, you know, sure, like, of course, Dave Burke, of course, we all knew that, you know, I'm, yeah, I am the gold standard of comfort evaluation for sure, I think. And I will second that, it is the hoodie and the pants, by the way. So yeah. Get those as well, All Made in America, the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Compression gear and rash guards, all that, I'm just saying there's all this stuff on the website, originmain.com, you can get all this stuff. The hoodie, the geese, the rash guards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Swet pants. Other stuff. A lot of cool stuff on there. Check it out. You want something? Get something. Also, the immersion camp. Jujitsu camp. Boom. Just got a message from someone from Florida. Young lady from Florida. Same.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think I'm the only one from Florida. What do you think? Hey, you know me kind of, I guess if you're sending me the message, sure. You know me, probably know Jocko too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, no dating typically, but hey, yeah, that's a good point. Everyone kind of, you kind of converge on the topic of jujitsu and then kind of everything else spawns from there. That's what it really seemed like to me too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's good fun. So, my input is to go. That's what I think. I think go. When in doubt, go. Dave's going. I'm going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when you go there knowing zero people, you'll leave there not only knowing more people, but they'll be kind of your friends. I will guarantee you'll have more actual friends after you leave. Guaranteed. This is to the lady that emailed me. That's what I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's cool. And even if you will know some people there, I say go too because you can't immerse yourself in jujitsu, best way to learn. And you know, let's face it, you're in Maine, there's a bunch of lobster. They serve lobster.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was one of the highlights in my opinion. Anyway, yeah. So it is on August 26th through September 2nd. Two sessions. Go to both if you want, but yeah, two sessions. There you go. All levels. Also, for fitness gear, go to onit.com slash Jaco. They got kettlebells, battle ropes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jump ropes. All kinds of stuff. Good stuff. Vary up your workout. Get some new gear. It'll actually get you more in the mood to do a workout when that gear comes in. I guarantee that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I don't know if I can guarantee that, but that's how it was for me when I got the jump rope. Then all of a sudden I'm a jump roper. See what I'm saying?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, a lot of cool stuff on there, a lot of good information on there too. By the way, if you're beginning like kettlebells or you're beginning other workouts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Movements and you want to know some tips and you know, even some nutrition stuff. Really good. Anyway, go there onit.com slash Jaco. Good way to support. Also, when you get the books that Jaco reviews on this podcast, I organize them on jacopodcast.com. On the top, you click on books from episodes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it takes you to the page. And it has. That's right, you guessed it, the books. Buy episodes. You see what I'm saying? Anyway, click on there, takes you to Amazon, you can shop, get your books, get whatever else you want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From Amazon, your batteries or duct tape, whatever. Keep shopping, do you. Also, good way to support is to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. Stitcher, iTunes, Google Play.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know, but it's like, you ever realize when, when the layout of something, so this was a big thing on Facebook. When do you get on Facebook? Do you remember?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, there you go. So were you in on Facebook when they kinda changed the layout of Facebook from something to something to like newsfeed? Negative. Jakku. Jakku doesn't know anything about this, you don't know what I'm talking about at all, huh?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Okay, so maybe a year and a half. So the layout of Facebook was like, you know, you had your profile picture and I even, I'm just trying to remember what it was. It was like, I don't even remember what it was, but it was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think like your wall or something like that where it's like you're just your own stuff. And then they all of a sudden switched it to this newsfeed situation. You know how like now it's like everyone's stuff that you're basically how it is now. They just switched it and people were mad. It was like, it like changed their life. You know, they were pissed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or Dave Burke. In this case, what he looks like. Pretty handsome. I think, as far as handsome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is an actual thing. You can look like how you sound. Like you look like how you sound.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's not a one to one, it's not a face to like, your voice sounds like this so your face is gonna look at you, it's not like that. It's like, your voice sounds like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So your face can look like this kind of real, like this group, this little variety of face, possible faces. You see what I'm saying? That's how it works.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Album with tracks. Which I will talk about after I talk about the fact that Jaco has a store. It's called Jacostore. Jacostore.com. This is where you can get the t-shirts, let's say, Discipline Equals Freedom, like the one I'm wearing right now, or the Jaco Podcast shirt. Basic, but very nice. The one that Dave Burke is wearing right now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very good. Yeaah, looks good on you, of course. Uhm, and even if you want the one that Jaco has on now. The one that Jaco always has on right now. The one he has on right now and always has on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You see what I'm saying. Anyway, if you want that, that shirt, go in jockelstore.com. Or if you want a hoodie, or if you want a hat, or if you want a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rash guard. Anyway, just go on there. You can see, you know, if you want to support that way, there's a lot of cool stuff on there. If you want something, get something. It's called JockoStore.com. Also, just like Jocko mentioned, Psychological Warfare is an album with tracks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically these tracks are each track, you can get these on iTunes by the way, so each track is Jocko telling you how to get past certain weaknesses that you might have, might have on your


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Campaign against weakness. So you know, you're on the path, right? We're working out, we're waking up early, some of us. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we're reading more, whatever we're doing. Sometimes you don't want to do that. You don't want to do that every day. You just don't feel like it on some days, but you still should do it. We all know that sometimes you don't feel like it. So you're about to skip the workout. Boom. You listen to a certain track. Doc will tell you why you shouldn't skip the workout and it's effective. You won't skip the workout. Take it from me. I know 100% from experience. That's what it is. Get it on iTunes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let me ask you this. Yes. About chocolate tea. Would you consider making the microdose or a version that doesn't have just a microdose of caffeine?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 135 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in the hearts of all my comrades for the great sorrow that this war has brought to you and to us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We all unite to express our heartfelt sympathy and condolence to the mother and family of one who has fallen in a cause as imperishable as will be the names of those who have fallen to defend it.


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[Assistant] Should there be anything my comrades and I can do to mitigate your grief and to allay your sorrow?


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[Assistant] Some little keepsake of Walt, as a marine perhaps. But name it, dear lady, and it shall traverse the ocean to you.


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[Assistant] Because you do not know me, please do not think it presumptuous for me to write. You are Walter's mother.


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[Assistant] I was his inseparable friend and comrade.


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[Assistant] That makes us two kindred souls in common grief for our nearest and dearest.


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[Assistant] Then too, this letter fulfills my duty, that I am bound by oath and will to perform.


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[Assistant] Many months ago, Walt and I promised each other that should the god of battles call to one, the other would console the sorrowing mother.


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[Assistant] Now Walt has gone west to home and to you forever. But his figure.


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[Assistant] His voice, his wonderful personality will always be living truths to me.


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[Assistant] I, myself, should the great call come, will go gladly.


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[Assistant] Confident of a reunion and with faith in the eternal truth of that cause for which I die.


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[Assistant] Forever connected to the honor of the Marines lies Walt with his two comrades. Dead on the field of honor.


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[Assistant] Above their graves, the stately pines sway in their grandeur. An imperishable monument. But, greatest of all epitaphs, is that engraved within the hearts of his comrades. A man than whom there was no peer.


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[Assistant] In kindliness. In understanding. In comradeship. Beyond compare.


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[Assistant] We alone know what could have been had circumstances so willed it.


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[Assistant] Whatever befall, whatever sorrow fills us.


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[Assistant] One thing I swear to you, here, hard by that lonely grave, the very paper that I write upon, taken in a captured German dugout,


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[Assistant] I swear that Walt is well avenged. That he has died, not in vain.


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[Assistant] For his spirit leads us on to ultimate victory.


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[Assistant] You are proud. I know for you are the mother of a martyr. A martyr in a holy cause.


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[Assistant] The very thought that you are in grief tears my heart.


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[Assistant] In the name of the 23rd Company, in the name of the Marines, I salute you. And all my comrades salute you.


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[Assistant] He was 20 years old when he wrote that letter at the grave side of his Marine Corps brother.


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[Assistant] Walter Spearing was his name, who was from Philadelphia, who'd been amongst the earliest of the Marines to ship over to war.


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[Assistant] And who was one of the 1,811 Americans killed at the Battle of Belleau Wood.


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[Assistant] And Walter Spearing died on June 26th, 1918. And as he said, that letter was written on captured paper from a German dugout. And you hear that writing.


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[Assistant] That articulate, that poetic writing by a 20 year old Marine Corps machine gunner.


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[Assistant] And in capturing different aspects of war, it teaches us.


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[Assistant] Leadership, it teaches us about human nature, teaches us about suffering, it teaches us about death, and it teaches us


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[Assistant] Us about all those different subject as a marine that I was honored to serve with on the battlefield end.


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[Assistant] Who I am now honored to work with once again on a different front.


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[Assistant] His name is Dave Burke. He's been on the podcast before already.


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[Assistant] So if you haven't heard that one, it was podcast number 69 and you should


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[Assistant] Listen to that one first to hear about Dave's incredible background as a Marine Corps F-18 fighter pilot, F-16 pilot, F-22 pilot, F-35 pilot, Top Gun pilot, Top Gun instructor, Top Gun senior instructor, and of course,


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[Assistant] Anglico team leader on the ground with us in the Battle of Ramadi. And if you've listened to Podcast 69, then you can hear all about that. And tonight, we'll go a little deeper on all these different subjects. Dave, thanks for coming back on the show. Thanks, Jakob. Stuck to be here, man.


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[Assistant] You just find these letters like that, and it's, it's incredible. I know, I, I was like, hey, read this. And, you know, your reaction's like, this is a 20 year old marine. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Is it a different time? Is it, the language is different back then?


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[Assistant] As you, and this is another thing that you and I were talking about.


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[Assistant] These lessons that exist in history, in literature.


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[Assistant] And, and it's funny because it's, it's things that are written by privates, it's things that are written by corporals, it's things that are written by majors and colonels and generals and it's things that are written by emperors and it's things that are written by conscripts and everything in between. And,


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[Assistant] And to realize. And then you start, you know, you start, I'll cover Bella Wood on this podcast for sure. But I mean, when you read about Bella Wood at all, it was just savage battle.


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[Assistant] Savage battle. I mean, there's one Medal of Honor, uh, for a, for a guy that his buddy didn't have his gas mask. So he took off his own gas mask and gave it to him and then, and then died. I mean, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. And so,


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[Assistant] And this is another thing I talked to you about as we were talking about this subject the other day. And I brought up this quote from Musashi. And the quote is, if you know the way broadly,


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[Assistant] You will see it in everything. And to me, that is what makes, that is what has, uh,


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[Assistant] I guess recalibrated reading for me is that when you start seeing all these connections and everything and, and part of it


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[Assistant] Quite frankly comes from the fact that I wrote a book that is about this subject and once you go that deep in it, it's like, okay, now I start seeing it everywhere and I mean even


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[Assistant] It kind of all started, it definitely all started with About Face for me. With About Face for me, when I was in Iraq,


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[Assistant] And I knew, I knew About Face was a great book. This is, this is on my second, on my first deployment my book was With the Old Breed. As a matter of fact, that was my book.


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[Assistant] It was so disconnected. It was such a stretch. I mean my first deployment to Iraq was absolutely, absolutely nothing like with the old breed other than the fact that we were American. Like the similarities ended there. Right? It was nothing like with the old breed. Nothing.


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[Assistant] You know, other than in my mind, okay, well, these are horrible things that are happening. You just, it was really hard to make that connection. I'll tell you what though, our deployment to Aramadi?


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[Assistant] The similarities between Ramadi and, and About Face were incredible.


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[Assistant] Not just, you know, one of the things that hit me right out of the gate is...


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[Assistant] When Hackworth gets to Vietnam, and those guys are getting killed, and they're getting killed by sniper fire, indirect fire, and booby traps, which we now call IEDs for whatever reason. And that one section of the book where they've taken 100-something casualties, and they've, and they've,


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[Assistant] They've contacted the enemy zero times, enemy killed zero. And I'm thinking to myself, this is a nightmare.


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[Assistant] This is a nightmare. And that nightmare, it shows itself over and over and over again. And what's so hard is, and I'll tell you where it hit me again. It hit me again on, on Lewis Puller. When Lewis Puller is rotating between the three different sections, and one of them is called Riviera.


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[Assistant] And he's saying every time they go into Riviera, they take wounded or they take killed.


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[Assistant] And on top of that, they don't ever see the enemy. And I'm thinking to myself,


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[Assistant] It's maddening, right? It's maddening when you look back and you're detached, which we're detached now. And I don't know if culture's different. I don't know if our culture's different. I don't know.


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[Assistant] If we value human life more, I don't know that, but when you read it,


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[Assistant] It's maddening to think about that. And you could see that like, Hackworth, he didn't like that. He didn't like that at all. And that was all, that was,


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[Assistant] I think, maybe it was you that told me when I had Jim Mukayama on, and, or a couple people told me. They were like, you sounded giddy. Yeah. And I said, well yes, I was giddy. And here I was, but it was very interesting to go and talk to Mukayama, because what was interesting to me is, you, you,


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[Assistant] There's the, there's the public persona of some guy that was in the military, right? Right. There's the public persona of some guy that was in the military. Myself included, you, all of us. There's that public persona of, oh, this is what this guy's perceived as. But then there's like, okay, what about all the people that served with that person? What do they really think?


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[Assistant] And what was Hackworth really like? And so going to meet MOOC.


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[Assistant] I was very curious, now I had read an interview with him where I, I knew that he had these very, he held them in the highest esteem. Yea, that he was a real deal. It didn't come as a surprise to me.


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[Assistant] But still it was, it was incredible that the perception that I had of Hackworth


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[Assistant] Was accurate. It was accurate. When you heard Mooc talk about it. When he said, we call them Mr. Infantry. I, I, I was just thinking to myself, is there anything cooler in the world than to be known throughout the army as Mr. Infantry? Yea.


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[Assistant] And the weird thing is about Ramadi, is when you compare Ramadi to Pellulu,


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[Assistant] You compare Ramadi to Okinawa, you compare Ramadi to Normandy, you compare Ramadi to, you compare Ramadi to those places, and our experience was just, it just pales. It just absolutely pales.


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[Assistant] That's before, that's pre-911. Yeah, pre-911. You were one of the few guys with combat experience. Yeah. Which meant you had dropped a bomb. A bomb. Singular.


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[Assistant] Is there a way to get... I'm trying to figure out what I was missing.


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[Assistant] Right? I was trying to figure out what, how can you get somebody that's a 18 year old corporal to read a book with the perspective, with the right perspective? Is that possible?


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[Assistant] It's gonna, yeah. It's weird too because what you're focused on when you're 18 and you read With the Old Breed, you're like, I remember my earliest memories of With the Old Breed,


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[Assistant] You know what I was thinking, so one of the things I remember probably...


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[Assistant] I don't know if it was 10 or 15 podcasts deep into this podcast. I remember


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[Assistant] saying during one of the podcasts.


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[Assistant] That I'm talking about, in these books, they're not characters. Yeah.


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[Assistant] These are people. And I think at some point for me, that transition in my brain happened where I was saying to myself, these are, these are people.


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[Assistant] And I think I got a little bit of it in my platoon commander tour. Because, you know, there was, hey, it was a good solid deployment.


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[Assistant] Was there risk? Sure, there was risk. It wasn't super high risk. I had, I had a great crew of guys, but you know, there was, there was stress, and there was personalities, and you start to see that when you read about a guy, and you think, I, I kinda know that guy. Just, I just know him a little bit, I just know him a little bit, and, and you start to realize that those people in these books, they're real people.


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[Assistant] And I think that for me was a huge leap between connecting me to the text that I was reading. And I'll tell you another thing, and straight up, voice.


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[Assistant] When I started thinking about reading these things, when I started reading these aloud, when I started reading them and hearing them in my own headset, like on the podcast,


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[Assistant] That was an impact. And, and now it's happened. It happened with Bill Reader. It happened with Jodie Mittick. It happened when these guys come on here and they hear me read what they wrote. And it hits them.


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[Assistant] And so that's another part of it too. There's an element when you read that's missing.


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[Assistant] There's an element of voice that is


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[Assistant] More powerful. It's just more powerful. And I remember when I read The Forgotten Highlander, when I read that book, I read it on the plane.


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[Assistant] So I was coming back calling a guy over in Scotland, a buddy of mine who I'd done some work with. He gave me this book and I was on podcast 11 and he goes, hey, you gotta check out this book. I won't try to do his Scottish accent. Plus he's a mumbler. He's like, you gotta check out this book, mate. So he gives me this book and I'm sort of thinking, okay, you know, I just


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[Assistant] I wasn't sure, but I had made enough of a, enough of a leap in my brain that when I started reading that book, I said to myself, wow, this is gonna be, this is gonna be a really powerful podcast. So I read the book, so then when we come, this is podcast number 12, when we came, when I came in to record it,


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[Assistant] I thought, yeaah, this is gonna be really heavy. But when I read it, it was like I was getting hit in the head with, with a sledgehammer. And that's the first podcast that when I got to the end of the book, I actually didn't know what to say. Because what do you say? What do you say about a guy that, what do you say about a guy that, that


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[Assistant] When I got done with it, the next time I did a podcast that was heavy like that, I knew that I had to get myself somewhere to go.


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[Assistant] I had to give myself some thought about how am I gonna make this... How does this become...


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[Assistant] Something, how do I, how do I get out of this hole? Cause that's what, that's what you're doing. And so, there's a level of that as well, when you hear, like, when you hear a hardcore history podcast. You get great storytelling, but he's reading quotes from people, but it's so much more powerful when you hear it.


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[Assistant] And we, you know, people say that about Extreme Ownership too. People say, oh yeaah, I love that book, and they say, you gotta get the audiobook. Cause it's Leif and I reading it. And you can hear, I mean, how much is communicated in the tone of voice. There's a lot.


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[Assistant] And that part in the end of that podcast where


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[Assistant] Uh, it's again, that was podcast number 18 and he's, he's, he's quoting these wounded soldiers that were sitting begging for money basically and


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[Assistant] He's talking about how this guy is saying, if...


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[Assistant] I would kill all these. He's talking about this, this soldier's talking about everyone on the streets in Moscow. He says, I would kill every one of these people to bring back my brothers. You're reading this going, good God.


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[Assistant] That is a powerful, powerful book. Did you see him in the news recently? He faked his own death.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I was totally bummed out. And then, sure enough, he had faked his own death. He had even fooled his wife. He didn't tell his wife.


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[Assistant] That's, that takes a lot of courage. He's a courageous guy already, but yeah, to fake your death and not give your wife a heads up about it.


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[Assistant] That's, that's hardcore. That, that's problematic. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Those, those Russian soldiers, they had no mercy. It was, that part we was talking about.


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[Assistant] The sergeants beat the corporals, the captains beat the sergeants, the majors beat the captains. It's just a nightmare. It's just a complete nightmare.


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[Assistant] Unreal. That being said, World War I? No. I-I-I-I don't, I don't know that that, I don't know that that is out there.


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[Assistant] The complete lack of control that you had as a individual soldier. Yea. As a, not, even as a platoon commander, as a company commander, you had no control over your fate.


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[Assistant] That's, that's what scares me so much about World War 1. It wasn't like, hey Jocko, here's the situation, here's what we're trying to accomplish, why don't you go figure out the best way to do it? And I go, okay, you know what, cool, I can do this, we can come up with some cool tactics, we can make some stuff happen. It was, hey, tomorrow morning at 0600,


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[Assistant] 14,000 of us are gonna go at 0 600 and then guess what's gonna happen at 0 615 another 14,000 yeah, I guess it's gonna happen at 0 630 another 14,000 and guess what a vast majority then we're gonna be wounded or killed and that's that So that that to me and and I'll tell you what?


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[Assistant] They call that the war to end all wars. I think if there would have been.


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[Assistant] Youtube, that might have been the last war. Right. That might have been the last war. If you were, eh, it's not, if you saw that,


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[Assistant] As a leader, cause I'm just talking, when I think about it, I think about it like you're a general. And you're in charge and you organize this big operation.


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[Assistant] And then you, you give the execute order, and then 22,000 men are killed in the first 24 hours. Who does that?


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[Assistant] And this is, this is a dichotomy because are there situations where people have done operations and are there situations at war that it's like, hey guess what, we are gonna do this mission and we don't have a real good chance of coming back and that's the way it is. And it's a strategic piece of the mission and


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[Assistant] Does that happen? Could that happen? Absolutely. And do people in the military sign up for that? Would I sign up for that if that was what was required? Well yea, that's what we signed up for.


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[Assistant] But as a leader like that, to be sitting there looking at 25,000 men and you gained, you know, 75 yards of mud.


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[Assistant] And, and you know what? You go, okay, that was bad. We're not gonna do that again. No, no, no, you know what? You say, you know what? We'll do it harder. Right. We'll do it harder. Which is, which is what makes me, uh, it makes that war to me just absolutely sickening. It's sickening.


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[Assistant] And you're thinking, we've got real bad guys here. We got legit bad guys.


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[Assistant] World War 1, it's like, oh yea, we wanted a little extra land. Who's that land for? You know what I talk about with, you know, when we work with companies, and I say,


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[Assistant] So, okay, CEO says, ah, you know, my frontline troops aren't doing what they're supposed to do, and it's affecting our bottom line. And, you know, I say, oh, well, you gotta explain to them why it's important.


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[Assistant] Right? And so then the CEO goes down and says, Hey!


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[Assistant] So imagine now you're World War I and you're gonna get an extra 14 miles of land. That's the goal. To get 14 miles of land.


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[Assistant] In some country. And it's not for you. It's for like...


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[Assistant] Have I, have I ever talked about, I don't know if I've talked about, have I ever talked about the white flower thing they did in Britain? The white flower? So, if you were like a able bodied young man, if you were a military age male,


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[Assistant] And, and you weren't wearing a uniform and you weren't like fighting? Women would come up and give you a white flower. It was the mark of shame. And the government started that campaign.


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[Assistant] Yeah, the government started that campaign of, hey, you see, you see someone that's not in uniform? Military age male? Able-bodied fighting man? You go up and give him a white flower. He's a coward.


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[Assistant] I'm, I'm prepping a book right now for the podcast, and actually a couple books, but


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[Assistant] It's a nightmare because what they're doing is they're, they're executing British soldiers that have, that, that desert or run away or have shell shock.


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[Assistant] And it's, it's awful. Some of the stories, these guys are soldiers that have been on the line for a year. And they break. They break. Which everyone-


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[Assistant] Uhm, Dick Winters talks about people bra- brave, the bravest guys, yea, they might break. And you gotta get them off the line. Hackworth, same thing, you got brave guys, sometimes you gotta get them off the line.


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[Assistant] World War I, we got a British soldier, he's been fighting for a year in the trenches. He's been getting mortared, he's been getting bombed. He says, I can't do this anymore. Okay, we're gonna shoot you at dawn. And they did it.


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[Assistant] That's another thing, it's completely insane.


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[Assistant] It's hard to comprehend. I, I'm, but like I said, I'm prepping these books. It's awful to read them. It's awful to read them. Some of them are the quotes from the soldiers that were chosen to be the executioners. Right. I mean, well, what's that?


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[Assistant] What's that? I remember I started one podcast off of that was like these soldiers were picked to go This kid had been in the army for a couple weeks and he had to go shoot a deserter That was just one of his first assignments. What the hell? Yeah, so there's some kind of a


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[Assistant] So, some kind of, you know, do we value human life more now? That's the question. I think the answer, if you compare today, compared to World War I, the answer is 100% yes.


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[Assistant] What about reading reports when you were going in?


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[Assistant] When you read these books. Yeah, like you're reading reports, but you're not there mentally.


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[Assistant] Were you, did you think mentally, right? The mental game of being able to detach and being able to take a step back and be-


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[Assistant] As a fighter pilot, did you just say, oh, this is what it's like?


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[Assistant] As a fighter pilot. This is what it's like, oh, I remember it's like landing on an aircraft carrier, I'm gonna be stressed out, oh, I need to overcome that. Did you just apply the same mechanisms to, alright, now I'm gonna be stepping foot on the battlefield, and this is how I need to apply the same mentality, the same mechanisms?


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[Assistant] So that's what I was, like I said, that's why I was a softball. Cause I'm imagining that, you know, even, even for us, okay, so let's say free fall, like you're going to free fall. Well, you're jumping out of an airplane and I, I was, I thought I would be more scared the first time I jumped out of an airplane.


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[Assistant] I was actually pretty pumped, so that's not a great example, but...


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[Assistant] There's times in the SEAL teams where you do something in training where you're like, okay, this is a little bit sketch, right? This is a little bit sketch. And, you know, what do you do? You do the same thing, you know, like, okay.


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[Assistant] This is what I'm gonna do. I've practiced it. I've rehearsed it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna execute this thing and we're gonna make it happen. And you learn how to do that. So when you get in combat, you have a protocol to follow to take that.


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[Assistant] If you're good, now, you know, we see people that they have the protocol and they aren't able to apply it to the situation.


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[Assistant] Did you ever punch out of your aircraft? Did you ever reject? No. Is that just luck?


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[Assistant] Check. You know what, one of the things you were talking, when you were talking about, you know, well you basically went on a whole


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[Assistant] Comment there about, you know, you gotta, you're in a situation, going back to the original subject here.


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[Assistant] And you're, regardless of how much you want to protect them, there, you're gonna put them in situations where they can get killed. And that, that, the, the new book coming out, the first chapter, is called The Ultimate Dichotomy. It's what it's called. It's The Ultimate Dichotomy and there's a reason.


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[Assistant] Because that is the ultimate dichotomy. There's no, that, for a leader, as far as I'm concerned, that is the absolute hardest thing that you have to deal with as a leader. The fact that you care about these guys, it's your, all you've been taught, all you believe, all you think, all your, your morals and your values are all these, for these guys that are doing anything for you, and you'll do anything for them,


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[Assistant] And you know their families, and you know their kids. And it's like, yea, guess what? Take all that, and now you're gonna send them on missions.


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[Assistant] We gotta go do this. No. Just can you even fathom?


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[Assistant] Can you even fathom that that happens and you do it for months and you do it for months and you do it for a year? And finally he says, you know what? I can't do this anymore. And then you say, you know what? Okay. We're pressing charges against you. You're going to court martial. We find you guilty. That's insane.


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[Assistant] I mean, uhm, like I said, I'm doing a podcast about it in the near future, but for the love of God, that's a trajectory


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[Assistant] It's, it's, thank god, uh, being in this time period.


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[Assistant] You got out of the Marine Corps. I mean obviously we covered a little bit of this on the last podcast. We covered about, you know what we did? We kind of read the text last time you were on the podcast of kind of how the transition


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[Assistant] You know, you got out, you came to an event with Leif and I, and we hung out, and you were thinking to yourself, yeaah, this looks like, uh, uh, what I wanna do. But, there's been more to it than that. That you've kind of briefed me on a little bit.


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[Assistant] You didn't get to where you were without feeling that, right? You don't get to, you don't get to be, you know, all the things that you did in your big bio without saying, without having in the back of your mind like, I need to do more and I need to do better, right?


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[Assistant] This is horrible. I'm like, oh, what's, what's going on? You're like, well, I,


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[Assistant] From a, from, okay, for our dogfighting in an aircraft, right?


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[Assistant] It seems like there would be some limitation.


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[Assistant] And in an aircraft, you know, just by constraints of time, I mean you can't go up and dogfight for four hours a day. Now you do that in Top Gun for a few years, but the opponents that you have, well I guess you're going against the other striker, that's as good as you're gonna get. But Jiu Jitsu, you can do that for 20 years.


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[Assistant] It's been so broken down and so studied that there's no possibility that someone could come up with something and go, oh, I came up with something new.


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[Assistant] And so, there is a level of that in Jujitsu, where, you know, they're only gonna put your arms up, there's all, you're gonna give up your back, there's all these things that you can't do, but,


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[Assistant] For instance, Jeffy Glover, he'll give up his back, and then he's rolling away from you. Or Dean Lister, you're getting him in a triangle, you think, and then you're getting your guard passed, you're getting smashed.


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[Assistant] There are times where the things that you don't expect someone to do, they do and it's problematic.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well there, well what you'd have to do is you'd- there's some anomalies out there. Yeah. There's guys that are incredibly-


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[Assistant] You know, in three years he got his black belt and he was a legit black belt. Someone was asking on social media the other day, Hey, is this guy legit? He seems to have gotten his black belt, got his black belt from Dawn or her in a short period of time.


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[Assistant] You can get your back black belt pretty quickly if you have a bunch of natural talent, maybe you have some kind of base wrestling judo, something like that, and then you make it your job.


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[Assistant] I would go so far as to say, this is a, this is a guess.


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[Assistant] I would go so far as to say that most people that have their black belt in jujitsu


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[Assistant] Were in the obsessed mode at some point in their life. That's what I'm gonna say.


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[Assistant] Right? Have you ever known someone that's a black belt that was not, at least for a period of three years was just, that's all they thought about? I don't know of any, no. Yea, they were just into jujitsu real hardcore. Yea, that's true. And then maybe they grew out of it a little bit or whatever. Yea.


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[Assistant] One of the things that you did, uh, and this is going, I hate to cycle back to the podcast again, but I'm going to do it real quick because I had a note about it.


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[Assistant] And it's something that you and I have talked about several times. When Tom Fife came on the podcast, Purple Heart, you know, served in World War II, Korea, Vietnam. Purple Heart, World War II, Korea, Vietnam. Battalion commander in World War II.


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[Assistant] Or in Vietnam. Uh, company commander in Korea, and I think- Tank platoon commander in World War II. Tank platoon commander in World War II. So, if that's your resume, what's up?


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[Assistant] And so, so there's his resume, but it was really interesting. So when he came on the podcast,


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[Assistant] And we were talking about, you know, leadership and stuff like that. And he gives this answer of


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[Assistant] We were talking around the subject of, you know, how do you get someone, how do you get your people to listen to you? And he says, hey, you tell them to do it and they do it.


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[Assistant] And I remember you and I talking afterwards, it was like, man, that was not a...


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[Assistant] That was not a Jaco answer of like, hey, you know, hey listen, you gotta build a relationship with people, you gotta, you gotta get their trust, you gotta earn their respect, you gotta, you gotta treat them how you wanna be treated, and then, if you explain to them why the mission is important, and they believe in the mission,


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[Assistant] Like I got this whole thing, right? It's this big problem, it's this big, uh, uh,


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[Assistant] But then this was the cool part, was, then he, he continued to talk about it. And he gave just the most perfect answer. The things that, everything that we say all the time, everything that we talk about at Echelon Front, everything that I talk about on this podcast, he gave it all.


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[Assistant] Ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, and the tank track falls off and someone's gotta get out there and fix it.


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[Assistant] Mook made a huge point about that, about caring about your people. You gotta care about your people. Again, these are guys that were, that were leading


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[Assistant] Okay, maybe not in the history of the world, but is there, this is right up there. You've got guys that have been, cause it's, you know, if you're in World War II and you get drafted,


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[Assistant] Guess what? The country's behind the war. It's World War II. You're gonna be a hero. You're fighting against Nazis or Imperial Japanese that are evil humans and you're on board for the big win. We get that.


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[Assistant] Vietnam, they straight up don't believe in the war. They just straight up don't believe in the war. They're there against their will under threat of prison.


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[Assistant] They show up there and these are the people you're in charge of. And this is the answer I give all the time now for when people ask me about millennials. People are like, you know, we got millennials and they got a bad attitude. Oh really? Oh really?


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[Assistant] The, the millennials have a bad attitude. Compare that to a drafted Vietnam.


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[Assistant] Soldier and here's the thing that I realized because and


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[Assistant] When I pulled that, when I started going through hack again, uh, about face again and I started reading that,


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[Assistant] I realize that you gotta change your perspective as a leader. It's not just, it's not just, hey, cause we simplified it. Like, well, if your millennials aren't doing what you want, it's your fault. That's, that's a simplification of it.


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[Assistant] Because what you really gotta do is you gotta shift your mindset a little bit and say, like, wait a second, how do I take advantage of this? That's what Hackworth was doing. Hackworth was saying, wait a second,


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[Assistant] How do I take advantage of these guys? Guess what? They're gonna question me if I do something wrong. They're gonna report things that aren't done correctly. They're gonna say no if I plan something stupid.


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[Assistant] Is that a bad thing? Let me think about it. Actually, no. That's actually not a bad thing. So if you've got a millennial, that's like, hey, if I don't like the leadership here, I'm leaving the company.


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[Assistant] Guess what? Let's get that person some good leadership. You got a millennial that says, hey, if I don't understand why we're doing what we're doing, I don't, I don't care, I'm not gonna do it. Okay, well let's explain to that person why so they have a full understanding of what it is we're trying to get done.


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[Assistant] You shift your, your mindset a little bit about the whole deal, and you end up in a much better position. But it's a perspective shift.


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[Assistant] It's the same thing we always say of, it's not just take ownership of it. So if you, if you say, oh, my millennials aren't doing what I need them to do, that's my fault. That doesn't make them to start doing what you need them to do. You actually have to make changes in your leadership style to adapt to this attitude that's coming your way.


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[Assistant] And at the end of the day, if you do that, you'll have someone that's smart, that's motivated, that will get on board with the program, and will do a great job. Yeah. Just like a draft.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's one of those answers. When I give that answer, I, I, I...


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[Assistant] Yeah, we got, I mean we, obviously we have all kinds of companies out there that we work with now and their workforce is now becoming all millennials. Right? And they're frontline people. Right now, at a company, the frontline people are all millennials. And so, if you don't figure this out,


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[Assistant] Who, who are you gonna hire? Yeah. Who are you gonna hire? I mean, it's like being a Vietnam. You were gonna have draftees if you don't figure that out and and that's the other thing is you hear the bad leaders From Vietnam that was that will say all the draftees were horrible. I couldn't work with them They were you know, they didn't do want to do their jobs. Maybe you should look in the mirror a little bit


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[Assistant] That's a pretty awesome leadership advice. It is. Treat your people really well. And when the time comes that you need to do something, that they need to do something for you, they're going to do it. They're going to do it. Take care of your people and your people are going to take care of you. Yeah. We said about our gear. Take care of your gear.


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[Assistant] It doesn't work. I'll be in a group of leaders, you know, doing, working with a company. I've done this many times. Where I'll set it up with, hey, who here has had someone in your life that was in charge of you?


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[Assistant] That invested in you and took care of you. Raise your hand. And everyone raises their hand.


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[Assistant] And, or 99% of the people raise their hand, if not 100% of the people raise their hand because that's, you know, usually we're talking to leaders in the company and so the leaders have made progress somehow and they've made progress because someone at some point


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[Assistant] Why don't you be that leader and take care of those people properly? And you'll end up with a team that'll do anything for you.


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[Assistant] Not for selfish reasons, cause they'll see right through that. You've gotta be doing it for the team. When you want the team to do well, then they'll do anything for you.


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[Assistant] That's uncomfortable for people. Yeah. The uncomfortable part is, it's hard for people, eh, I guess, I guess, we think that if you're my boss, I think you're not as smart as me, and I think, well, he's just gonna blame me. When I come in and say it's my fault, you're gonna go, yeah, I know, that's why I'm firing you. The reality, you know what I mean? It's like, no, people are smarter than that.


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[Assistant] And no one wants to hear excuses. No one wants to hear excuses.


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[Assistant] Yeah, Leif talks about that when he was the XO at, at a SEAL team. And...


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[Assistant] He says, you know, he'd get a guy that was something's going wrong in a platoon and a guy would come in and say, you know, it's not my fault. My chief's no good or my, my, my LPO doesn't know what he's doing. It's like, okay, you're fired. Yeah. And the next guy comes in and says, Hey, I'm not doing a good job as a leader. Here's the things I'm going to change. Like, okay, let's keep working on it. Let me know if you have any questions. Let me know if I can help you out. Let's get you the support you need.


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[Assistant] Not to mention, uh, paycheck gone. Yeah. Well, like for officers in the SEAL teams a lot of times, or retirement or whatever, it's, it's a bad situation.


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[Assistant] There are some people, and I've talked to many of them over the years. Many of them. They don't.


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[Assistant] They literally don't make that connection. They don't make the connection. They're looking at their boss, and they're saying,


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[Assistant] This wasn't my fault. It was my whoever. It was my subordinate leader. It was the maintenance guy. It was this. It was that. They literally don't make the connection.


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[Assistant] And they cannot make that connection. You feel like you're...


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[Assistant] I would watch when we would have a bad seal platoon going through my training and I'd bring in a platoon commander or a platoon chief.


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[Assistant] And they would literally, like an assault chief. So the guy is in charge of the assault. He's in charge of the assault. And it's like, hey, all your men went to the wrong target.


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[Assistant] Well, it was briefed wrong. Well, it was this. Well, we marked the target wasn't marked correctly. The battle maps. I mean, literally, just, you could come up with 20 excuses. And you know what? They're all, they all make sense. They're like, hey, someone made, someone put the wrong number on the brief.


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[Assistant] And everyone heard the wrong number? And they looked at their battle map and they went to that building? Okay. That's what happened. Whose fault is it?


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[Assistant] It's not the guy that made the battle map. You're in charge, you're in charge of the assault team. You're in charge of the assault team. This is, this is your fault.


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[Assistant] And it would, I would, sometimes I would just, actually I would hardly ever say this was your fault.


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[Assistant] Okay, okay, so you're not responsible for getting the men to the target as the you're not Responsible for the assault as the assault chief is what I'm here. So it's really horrible when you see that someone can't make the connection


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[Assistant] And what, and this is another cool thing, like on social media I see this a lot. Guys will hit me up, girls will hit me up. Uh, something went wrong with a client.


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[Assistant] I stepped in, I took ownership, they thanked me, problem solved, got it squared away. People are surprised. People are surprised that it works. People are surprised that it works. And again, just to make sure everybody knows.


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[Assistant] That alone doesn't work. You still have to solve the problem that you caused with the client, right? You gave them what they needed late, or it's gonna be late, and now you say it's my fault. That doesn't mean that you don't need to get it to an ASAP and make up some corrective matters and lower the price or do something so that it makes up for the problem.


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[Assistant] Let's call it a drill or a coaching. I'll call it that, a coaching. When, the next time you get into a situation.


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[Assistant] And you write down, or you take the excuses and the reasons that you come up with.


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[Assistant] Look at them and then figure out how they were, how those things were actually your fault and or how you could have prevented them. Because a lot of times it's like, here's, here's, here's one. Uh, hey boss, we didn't get the mission accomplished because the weather rolled in and we couldn't launch on the mission.


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[Assistant] That's, that's the problem. Now, we all know that we don't control the weather. So when you, so you write the problem down. We failed the mission because we didn't control the weather. We, we can't control the weather. That's why we failed the mission. That's my excuse. That's a, that's a logical reason. There's, that's, that's a, that's a legitimate excuse. But don't use it. What you do is you say, what could I have done


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[Assistant] To have controlled the weather. Okay, I know, okay, okay, wait, I can't control the weather. What could I have done? I could have come up with a contingency plan. I could have come up, we could have staged in a better place. So then you go to the boss and you say, look boss, here's what happened. The weather went south really bad.


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[Assistant] That was a problem, but it's a problem that I should have done a better job taking care of. What I should have done was, I should have had a contingency plan.


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[Assistant] I should have staged closer to the target area that I could have taken vehicles instead of helicopters. That's my fault. From now on, I will absolutely have a secondary plan. This won't happen again. We can't control the weather, but we can control how we plan and how we execute and this won't happen again.


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[Assistant] There you go. So you take the most outrageous thing that you know you can't control. You figure out a way to control it. And you take ownership of that thing.


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[Assistant] The next time you have a mission, and you plan that contingency, and you actually execute and implement what you said you're gonna do, guess what? You will accomplish the mission. There's a whole part of ownership that preempts the problem.


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[Assistant] If you've got someone that knows, if I know that I can make an excuse, if I know that I can make an excuse, then guess what? I'm not gonna set things up properly. If I don't set things up properly, more often, or more often than the other way, I will fail to, to execute what I'm supposed to execute. If you have an excuse ready, same, same thing with you as an individual human being.


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[Assistant] Then you know what? You say, okay, what are my contingency plans? What could I have planned differently? Let's eliminate those excuses. Take ownership of your freaking life.


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[Assistant] So that was sort of like a turning point for me mentally. Cause as I grew up and I said to myself,


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[Assistant] You know, well, I understood that I needed to take responsibility for what was happening. But,


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[Assistant] The turning point for me came when I realized that no matter what happens,


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[Assistant] If I'm the guy in charge, if I'm the guy in charge, we need to get this thing done. That's the way it is. And when you, when you have that thought in your brain, the preparation you do is so much more solid because there's no way out. There's no way out. So you gotta execute.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. And then the other part of this you gotta remember is this doesn't mean


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[Assistant] This doesn't mean that I'm gonna bang my head up against the wall 47 times to accomplish the mission. It's like, oh, guess what?


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[Assistant] Part of this is, hey, I didn't plan it well. I made some mistakes.


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[Assistant] I didn't calculate correctly, and now we are not gonna get this done.


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[Assistant] And that's the way it is. And so, I'm not saying you continue to beat your head against the wall 47. 47 is the limit.


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[Assistant] Don't do 48. When you've done 48, you've gone too far. You're not gonna get through the wall. Trust me, if you can get through a wall, it'll get through by the 47th headbutt. After that, it's not happening. So you gotta take a little, uh, you gotta look for the alternate route. So there's a difference.


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[Assistant] In your leadership capabilities is a downward spiral because the more insecure you are, the more you try and


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[Assistant] Manipulate and maintain everything and keep everything under your wraps and do everything your way and that's how it is. So when you're insecure as a leader,


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[Assistant] I personally made it and I can't remember when, but when I was like, you know what? It's okay. It's okay. I'm not gonna be... I'm not the best in the world.


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[Assistant] And everybody knows that, and the more I try and act like that, the more obvious that's gonna be. And the minute you say that, the minute you recognize that, people are going, hm, okay.


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[Assistant] He might not be the best, but at least he knows that.


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[Assistant] And that right there, that is one of the most gratifying things about what we do now.


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[Assistant] Is that we get to close that gap with people we get I mean I see it on a daily basis on a daily basis with the leaders that we work with you get to see their eyes open up and you go boom they get it now everything we just talked about which


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[Assistant] Through the roof, as the leader, and then of course, when the leader starts doing well, then the leaders start doing well, and when all the leaders start doing well, guess what? Now we have a winning team.


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[Assistant] I got to see that. I got to see that with these young leaders and just, it's in my head right now, I gotta tell the story. There's a young kid, who I know, who's an awesome guy, and I didn't really know him that well at the time, but he was kinda like a pipe hitter in a platoon. And there's total mayhem going on, total chaos going on, and I just like go over to him.


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[Assistant] And uh, platoon chief was simulated and the LPO wasn't making a call and this total chaos man when I walk over to him I'm like, hey man. And he's like, yeah. And, and I go, hey man, bro, are you gonna do something about this right here?


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[Assistant] And saying, are you gonna do something about this? His eyes opened up and he said, oh hell yes I am. And boom, he started, stepped up, started making calls and the whole, the whole paradigm in the situation completely changed.


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[Assistant] Because he stepped up and led. And so, I got to see that then, and I get to see it now. So, that's a cool thing.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and then you get, well, we get to see it. I used to get to see it. You get to see it start to take hold. Yeah. And like Echo, you've talked about this where I'm like, where you know what I'm doing.


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[Assistant] Like, like with you. You know what I'm doing. You sat here through hundreds of hours of me talking about how I'm gonna treat someone on my team.


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[Assistant] When, when you know what the person's doing, when you know what your, your leader's doing, and it still works, then you go, you know what, I'm gonna do it too. And that's how it spreads throughout these organizations.


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[Assistant] It's so funny now because everyone I deal with now.


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[Assistant] Every single person that I deal with on any level, on any, uhm,


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[Assistant] On any depth at all. They all know all my little tricks as you call them. They all know. Every, every person I'm involved with knows them all.


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[Assistant] Well, and I'll say this, the reason why it works, quote unquote, the reason it works, is the reason it works with the people that I deal with in my life, from my family to my business partners across the board, the reason that it works, is cause I'm not doing it for me.


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[Assistant] On the surface, cause I'm gonna tell you what, you gotta take that one step further, cause guess what? If, this is the, this is the amazing thing.


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[Assistant] If what you're doing is your focus on taking care of the team, taking care of your people, doing the right thing for the right reasons.


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[Assistant] And you're, and you think to yourself, so if you're listening to this right now going, well, I really wanna, I really wanna get ahead.


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[Assistant] And Jocko just said, I'm not gonna get ahead if I...


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[Assistant] So this isn't for me. Here's the, here's the dichotomy in this thing. And it's a huge dichotomy. If you're there.


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[Assistant] And you're in a leadership position or you're just in a position, you're in a relationship, whatever, and you're doing things.


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[Assistant] And you're gonna win way bigger than you could if you were clawing and scratching and ripping things and bringing them back to yourself. In the end, that person that thinks


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[Assistant] The person that puts everyone else first is going to win. They are going to win.


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[Assistant] So, it's, it's kinda hypocritical. Cause it's like, in one hand it's like, no, I don't care about myself. I'm not trying to improve, I'm not trying to improve my station in life.


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[Assistant] Take note of that one. Any other major topics you want to bring up tonight?


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[Assistant] Dave, obviously, thank you for coming on again.


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[Assistant] Thanks for your service in the Marine Corps and for everything you've done for America.


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[Assistant] And I actually want to close out this conversation with another letter.


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[Assistant] And it's also written by that same...


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[Assistant] Who wrote the letter that opened this podcast. And this one is written to the cousin of one of his comrades.


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[Assistant] Did not know what happened to her cousin, Corporal Trowbridge, who had gone missing in World War I, and she didn't know what happened to him. And so, this is another letter, written after the end of the war.


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[Assistant] And it reads, my dear Miss Trowbridge.


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[Assistant] My old Sergeant Major Clifford has written me and has enclosed a copy of your letter to him in which you request information concerning your cousin, Corporal James H. Trowbridge.


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[Assistant] It is indeed unfortunate that his family should be left so uncertain concerning his sad end. I know that it has been the cause of great concern with you. I am sorry too that I had not known of this before, for I was the last of his friends to see him alive.


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[Assistant] Though Sergeant Clifford wrote me January 16th, I have been out adventuring in the oil fields of northern Texas, and I have only lately ventured back into civilization.


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[Assistant] Your letter was forwarded to me from my home in Ohio.


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[Assistant] And I received it tonight and am taking this first occasion to answer it. I hope it will clear up Jim's case. And if there's anything I can do in the future, any service I can perform, any advice I can offer to Jim's folks, I will be at their service at all times.


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[Assistant] We who have survived this hell on earth, count it the least we can do.


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[Assistant] To console the sorrowing mothers and families of our dead comrades in arms.


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[Assistant] On the 13th of June, we were making ready for the attack when replacements arrived to fill up our broken ranks. Jim was assigned to my gun crew


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[Assistant] And the way he went over the top like the brave soldier he always was and his subsequent actions made me his proud friend and comrade to the day he went west.


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[Assistant] I still remember one night on guard with Jim.


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[Assistant] In the little hole alongside, the night held an eerie stillness. A night fit for such a hell hole.


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[Assistant] And though there was no wire, only an empty space between the Germans and us, I slept.


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[Assistant] And I can assure you that Jim Trowbridge name


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[Assistant] Yet I dimly remember that Jim was either gassed or wounded.


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[Assistant] In the Champagne Drive, in which the second division captured Mont Blanc Ridge.


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[Assistant] 1918. Jim came back to us before the last phase, the Argon Drive, which began on November 1st, 1918. Through the mud and rain and fog, we pushed forward over the top that glorious day, the second division leading the whole army.


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[Assistant] My company suffered, terribly, and dead and wounded.


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[Assistant] Yet we carried on, hungry and tired and facing the everlasting hail of bullets and shells.


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[Assistant] As the last of the column came up, I heard from them that Jim's crew had rested once again by the roadside. None of us were strong. We had not eaten in days.


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[Assistant] A great shell had exploded and had killed and wounded all of Jim's crew. Jim had had a foot torn off by a flying fragment.


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[Assistant] There was Jim, lying on the blanketed floor.


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[Assistant] And that he was grey from long exposure and loss of blood.


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[Assistant] On the battlefield, one knows when death approaches.


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[Assistant] That is all I know. For a few hours later I was knocked out myself.


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[Assistant] Yet I doubt not that Jim went west to home and to mother soon after.


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[Assistant] Whether Jim died and was buried in the village a few miles south of Sudan, in the Ardennes department, or whether he survived until he reached the hospital, I do not know.


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[Assistant] You can find out by writing the Graves Registration Bureau at Washington. That he is gone, I am reasonably sure.


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[Assistant] I would advise his family to harbor no unfounded hopes in his safety.


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[Assistant] That I ask yours and Jim's mother's pardon.


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[Assistant] For my heartless and brutal description of this story, my experiences on the battlefield have caused me to use other than tender words that might sue the brokenhearted mother.


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[Assistant] Nevertheless, that I grieve with her for her son and my comrade.


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[Assistant] And believe me too, that I stand ready to do all in my power to assist her in any possible way.


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[Assistant] And Corporal James Trowbridge was one of those Americans. He died around the 6th of November, 1918.


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[Assistant] And the cost of democracy is immense. And I started this podcast. We were talking about that quote.


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[Assistant] In everything that we have been given.


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[Assistant] Maybe give us an opportunity to decompress or... Sure. Maybe we could help you talk about


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[Assistant] Yeaah. That's awesome. Cause that's a, that's a letter right there. Yeaah. Again. 21, now he's, so now he's 22, so he's 19, 20, he's 22 years old Dave.


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[Assistant] I tried to figure out what happened to him.


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[Assistant] Just like a- About an actual person. Yea. About James Trowbridge.


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[Assistant] Dave. Recommendation? Yea or nay? Jujitsu.


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[Assistant] Well, you know who's down with the discipline? Dave Burke.


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[Assistant] Again, this is good that you're here, cause I tell everyone it tastes good to me, but I'm only one person. You like it too. Mince your flavor too, right?


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[Assistant] And peanut butter chocolate is now live at originmain.com. Is that official? That is official. That's official. Yes. Alright. That is official.


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[Assistant] And don't forget about this podcast. Also, there's the Warrior Kid Podcast. Yes. So, subscribe to the Warrior Kid Podcast. Dave Burke was the first guest on the Warrior Kid Podcast number 16.


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[Assistant] Which is out at this time. If you want to hear him answer questions from children about being a Marine Corps fighter pilot. And there's also some stories from Uncle Jake.


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[Assistant] In the most recent three podcasts, 14, 15, and 16, there's some stories from Uncle Jake talking about how Uncle Jake kind of established his principles in life.


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[Assistant] Those are pretty cool. And, and in addition to


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[Assistant] The Warrior Kid podcast being available through the various podcast channels. It is also available on YouTube on a separate channel from the Jockle podcast YouTube channel, which has this podcast on it, which is pretty cool, but it also has the custom, artistic, artistic videos.


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[Assistant] Videos. Enhanced. Enhanced. Enhanced. And wicked cool videos from Echo Charles with about whatever.


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[Assistant] And I was like four feet from it. Cause we were about to walk on stage, so I was real close to it. Yea, you got the full experience. I'm in that video by the way. Yea you are. You do your ninja pose.


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[Assistant] I have had a lot of other things to do, so I am.


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[Assistant] The work I have done so far on the new Psychological Warfare album is to begin to consider topics for the next album. I have a small list. It will be rolled out. What do you think? Let's roll it out.


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[Assistant] Yeah, people want smoking. ASAP, really? Yeah, as far as like, someone's out there that wants to quit smoking. Yeah, okay. Alright, so we're on that. We'll put it out there. The new Psychological Warfare. We do have a working title, which seems to be sticking pretty well. All your excuses are lies. Yeah. Psychological Warfare 2.


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[Assistant] Okay, in my opinion. We're good then. Jock of white tea, you can get it on Amazon. You can get the dry tea bags and mix it yourself, or you can get it in a can. And if you get it, no big deal, you can deadlift 8,000 pounds. Weigh the Warrior Kid books. Dave, you've read them.


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[Assistant] Interesting. People ask me, what about girls? Are you gonna write a book for girls? I did write a book for girls. It's called Way the Warrior Kid.


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[Assistant] It's legit. That's awesome. And I actually talk to your kids occasionally and I see that they are in fact on the path. What about the field manual?


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[Assistant] Have you just been like, you know, you're sitting there and it's on your desk and you're like, you know what? I'm gonna check. I'm gonna read this real quick.