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[Assistant] The Colonel knew he was intruding on a private moment and considered leaving, but this bed was Corporal Dunham's final battlefield, he thought.


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[Assistant] Then he leaned over to help Deb remove her gloves, and she once again felt Jason's skin as she held his hand.


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[Assistant] Sometimes she reached across and held Dan's hand. Sometimes she placed her own on Jason's heart. We're proud of you, Dan said. We love you.


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[Assistant] And the bridge of Jason's nose stroked his arms and said, it's okay, honey. You can go now.


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[Assistant] Dr. Dunn watched as the blue line on the monitor screen showed plunging levels in oxygen in Jason's blood. His heart rate fell until the green line went silently flat. Dunn stepped forward and bent down to listen to Jason's lungs and heart.


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[Assistant] We were talking about the fact that, you know, there's always things that we can look at from...


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[Assistant] Whether it's a decision you made, whether it's a meaningless decision or one that matters, you know, hey, we step here, do we go there? Do we put this unit over here? Do we go over there? Do we go down this road? Do I go on this side of the vehicle? Like there's a million little decisions that we all make or we all mate.


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[Assistant] Sure, you look back and say, oh, go left instead of right. Go forward instead of back. Go to that vehicle instead of this vehicle.


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[Assistant] We don't have that luxury of, of knowing what the outcome is gonna be of every decision that we make.


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[Assistant] I hear this story unfold and sit here with you guys. You know, that's what I think about.


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[Assistant] Is not so much the fact that look, there's a million decisions we all made that led to this point in our world.


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[Assistant] But we have the opportunity to make decisions now. And to move forward.


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[Assistant] And, and, I told you guys in the beginning, I was like, yeaah, this is gonna, uh, suck.


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[Assistant] And I was also talking about the fact that like anything that sucks, you know, you, you gain something from it. You, you make progress.


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[Assistant] You become stronger is the bottom line. You know, you do something hard.


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[Assistant] As an individual, when you do something hard, you become stronger. As a unit, as you do something hard, you become stronger.


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[Assistant] These things that we go through make us stronger, they make us better.


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[Assistant] Close out, you know, I don't know if I just, if you guys want to have one last thought, you know, about Jason, about his impact on you.


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[Assistant] And the decisions that you make now in your life.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well, everything you just said, from the farm, to the hunting, to raising four, and raising four, four kids that will reflect and never forget. And that's outstanding. Outstanding.


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[Assistant] You take that little boy, Jett, and you raise him into a man.


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[Assistant] Who, by the way, I said, hey kid, you know, I've written a bunch of books for kids. You want to read them? And he goes, nope.


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[Assistant] It's easy to look at that and get overwhelmed by it.


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[Assistant] You should think about that actually is something you should relate to. That is something you should try and pursue every single day.


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[Assistant] We've been at it for a while. And I just want to thank all of you guys for...


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[Assistant] Coming on here for sharing some of these things that you learned from him, from sharing it with other people.


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[Assistant] And, and thank you all of course individually for what you all did. I could...


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[Assistant] Talk to each one of you individually, separately for hours to hear about what you guys have been through. What you've seen.


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[Assistant] So thanks for your service and sacrifice, but thank you for coming here and for honoring your brother.


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[Assistant] Not only in the ways that you're living your lives right now, raising your children.


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[Assistant] But also by telling the story of his life.


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[Assistant] And ensuring that no one ever forgets the sacrifice that he made. And I can promise you, we will never forget him.


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[Assistant] And with that, our guests have left the building. Sergeant Bill Hampton, Corporal Kelly Miller, Staff Sergeant John Ferg Ferguson, and Lieutenant Colonel Trent Gibson. Thanks to all of them for coming on.


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[Assistant] And Echo Charles has joined us at the table. Good evening, Echo.


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[Assistant] You were in the support role.


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[Assistant] On that podcast. Yes sir. So, appreciate you manning the controls in the back. Sure. Keeping things running smoothly. Obviously an honor for us to be able to sit here


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[Assistant] And talk with, with those men. And, and, and once again,


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[Assistant] When we turned off the recorders and we were kind of helping those guys, you know, get on out of here and all that. They all had places to be and what not, but you know.


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[Assistant] Happy to come on and happy to share the story and I said guys.


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[Assistant] And I never really thought about this before, but I said, guys, imagine if you could sit down and put some headphones on and listen to


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[Assistant] The platoon commander, the machine gunner, the platoon sergeant that was out there with John Baslow. Imagine if you could do that. Imagine what that would mean to you.


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[Assistant] And that's what it is like for them to come on here and, and share the story of Jason, Jason Dunham. So, it's an honor for, for me to be sitting here and to be able to meet with those guys and, and share that story. Heavy as it is, you know, and I know it's, I know it's,


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[Assistant] One of the heaviest stories that a person can share.


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[Assistant] And have those guys sit down and go through this. I just wanted to say thanks to them once again.


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[Assistant] And you know, I, I, one of the most important things that I need to put out about this.


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[Assistant] Is that there are some people right now trying to put together a documentary.


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[Assistant] About the life of Jason Dunham.


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[Assistant] And what he did, how it all happened, and so the documentary is going to be called The Gift.


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[Assistant] And it's a couple vets, a couple vets are trying to make the documentary. So if you want to support them, you can go to Facebook or Instagram. They have at the gift documentary and then


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[Assistant] What they're trying to do is fund it. And they're trying to fund it through an Indiegogo campaign. So, if you go to Indiegogo,


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[Assistant] Which is a website where they take donations to make things happen. And in that camp, in that, on that Indiegogo campaign, it is called the Gift Documentary.


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[Assistant] If you can, try and provide some support so that this story can be told in detail and rolled out to an even larger audience. So check that out and if you can, try and help them out to move forward with this project.


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[Assistant] In hearing this story, I guess, echo, you know, I also told those guys about how we sort of decompress after these things and how that is an actual


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[Assistant] Thing. And, and what we just did is we just decompressed with the guys. You know, once we got done, we kinda took a breath, we walked outside, we, we started having some normal conversations about life and,


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[Assistant] And, uh, while Bill was showing me pictures of hunting and his kids and we're running around with Jet and just doing a decompression. So, that's awesome. You gotta do that. And that's sort of how we started this whole...


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[Assistant] Support. Part. Support. Segment. Segment. Yeaah. Was, we did a podcast. It was one of the early podcasts that was really heavy. And when we got done I was like, hey I need a moment over here to decompress. Why don't you talk for a minute? And so that's kind of where it came from.


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[Assistant] And the good thing is if you don't want to listen to this, it's fine. You don't need to. You can just press stop and we're good. You can go carry on with your day. If you need to decompress a little bit with us, cool. You can hang out. We're gonna hang out for a little bit till we get a little decompressed.


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[Assistant] And, you know, one of the things that it is good to reflect on how do we take what we just heard, which is heavy, and turn it into.


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[Assistant] Something that we can actually utilize. As far as I'm concerned, we got


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[Assistant] You know when you hear a story like Jason Dunham, we get charged with...


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[Assistant] Living the best lives we can. Being the best people we can. And you heard this from all these guys. It's like, hey, how can we live better, do better? So that's what we're here for.


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[Assistant] You know, and look at our lives and say, what can we do better in our lives?


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[Assistant] How can we get better? How can we be better? That's what we're looking at.


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[Assistant] And I know you know some ways, Echo Charles.


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[Assistant] What's one of the primary ways that you can think of? Jujitsu.


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[Assistant] Here's the thing, you get asked this, I got asked this the other day. Someone, somebody presented this problem to me.


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[Assistant] Start training is what I'm saying. Yes. Do you concur?


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[Assistant] And I'll tell you why not. Not only on the premise and principle, but also, then, you're putting your soul at hazard. You just, you can be bought now.


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[Assistant] By the way, 25 million dollar house in California, just FYI, 1.1% sales tax or property tax, you're paying


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[Assistant] What, to over $250,000 a year in property tax on that property.


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[Assistant] Think about how you're going to cover that tax scenario, because it's not a good scenario.


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[Assistant] As you approached the offer, which I kinda knew was coming, that actually made me mad. Just the fact that you were gonna approach me with that was making me mad. Like, oh, you think you can buy me. Okay.


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[Assistant] Which, which reminds me, you know, we were talking on the podcast, you know, with this crew that was in here about what these young Americans do, stepping up and making stuff. It's also, we got


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[Assistant] Americans, young Americans in our workforce, and guess what they're doing? Stepping up and rebuilding the country. Up in Maine, what do we got? We got, we got Americans of all ages up there.


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[Assistant] Bringing manufacturing back to America. So, you don't necessarily have to go overseas.


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[Assistant] To represent, to support our country. You're at here, here in our country building our economy. That's what you're doing. And if you want to help build our economy, and bring manufacturing back from overseas, and rebuild communities that were devastated, go to originmain.com.


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[Assistant] Get a gi, get a rashguard, by the way, for no gi.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Now if you're an American, we know factually you have genes. Probably three pairs. At least.


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[Assistant] Don't just settle on a pair of jeans made in China.


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[Assistant] I think we do. You want to support freedom. That's part of the whole gig, yea. America. You want to support democracy? You get yourself a pair of origin jeans. I think so too. I think that's what we're talking about. Yes sir. T-shirts. Uhm, if you wear joggers, which I don't.


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[Assistant] And when I wore joggers, one time I tried them on, was laughing, and I showed my family, and they were laughing, and my, my, my wife was like, uh, please. And I said, no problem. I took them off, never to be worn again. But you wear joggers.


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[Assistant] Okay, so what you need to do is you need to take some discipline go, or discipline of any kind, which will help your motor neurons or your neurons in your brain to remember to take your other supplements so you don't get aches and pains.


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[Assistant] So, get some of that, get some more for your additional protein that literally tastes like dessert. My daughter, I got two daughters in college right now, she sent me a


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[Assistant] We'll call it a text message. That was a picture of a peanut butter milkshake. And of course since she's a 18 year old girl.


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[Assistant] The caption on it said literally a peanut butter chocolate milkshake.


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[Assistant] She was like, dad, it's literally. She said it's literally. She mixed it with, uh, coconut milk, regular milk, ice cubes, peanut butter, milk. Literally.


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[Assistant] Literally, uh, a peanut butter chocolate milkshake.


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[Assistant] Because that's what these, that's what the, that's what my 18 and 20 year old daughters say.


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[Assistant] Or they just think you're dumb. Yeah. Because what I do with my kids is I won't even say any other part of the sentence. I'll just say,


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[Assistant] Because it adopts other words from other languages and they become a part and the languages, the words that are in the language can morph and change as needed.


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[Assistant] Here's, here's two examples. Like?


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[Assistant] And goes. Goes. Yep. Okay. Because.


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[Assistant] It's whatever, 30 years ago, GOES. There was zero definition for GOES that meant he said this.


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[Assistant] So there you go. In the first and foremost meanings of the word definition. Literally, you will actually and literally be able to guarantee deadlift 8,000 pounds. Cool.


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[Assistant] Fair enough, and also if you want to subscribe to the grounded podcast, we actually have another podcast if you can imagine that. We talk about life, we talk about jujitsu.


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[Assistant] That it's been so long since they got a Warrior Kid podcast that their kids stopped asking about it. So that hurts. And I'm working. I recorded another one. So we'll release, we should probably just release those couple. And then you've got Warrior Kid Soap at IrishOaksRanch.com


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[Assistant] Where you can see what Bill Hampton, Kelly Miller, Ferg, and Trent Gibson, you can see what everyone looks like during this podcast. And also Echo Charles makes


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[Assistant] Highly enhanced videos with lots of explosions, special effects, and other... What's it called when you make the words move around? Typography? Shh.


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[Assistant] There's, uh, a lot of people watching the YouTube. You know, there's, we have, uh,


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[Assistant] We have a ton of videos. We have a lot of videos. Yea, there's a lot of videos. I don't know the number, but it's a lot of videos.


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[Assistant] Oh, like little excerpts of this? Yea, you know. What's weird is most people when they think of an excerpt, they think.


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[Assistant] Two minutes. And for some reason when you think of an excerpt, you think 14 minutes.


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[Assistant] I have, I have a thing called psychological warfare that is short.


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[Assistant] Very, very short things. One to two minutes long that you can press play on your recorder or whatever. iPhone, Android, Samsung, whatever. You can press play on that and it'll give you a little boost if you need a little psychological warfare against weakness because it's going on all the time.


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[Assistant] MP3, whatever, wherever you get your MP3 plus stuff, there it is. We've got flip side canvas as well. Which is visual.


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[Assistant] Cues visual spots to help you come over overcome psychological weakness or if you just want Really badass stuff hanging up in your place of work or home my brother Dakota Meyer


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[Assistant] Is making those down in Texas made in America. So get some of that.


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[Assistant] It's, and you could see, I mean, I read a tiny fraction of the book, and even with the four guys that were there in the room, there's still details that


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[Assistant] You'll get it when it comes out. Otherwise, if you don't order it now, you're gonna be on that group of people that get hit that week. They go, oh it's out now, I'm gonna press, I'm gonna press buy right now.


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[Assistant] And then they press it and it says, oh, shipping in three weeks. Why is that? Cause it sold out. Why did it sell out? Cause you didn't press.


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[Assistant] Buy that thing, pre-order. That's what you need to do, pre-order. So pre-order, that way also, look, I'm not gonna say anything to you.


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[Assistant] When you bring that book to me to sign, I'm not gonna say, oh, I'm not inspecting, really.


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[Assistant] But they did in this particular one, they made for me. It literally says.


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[Assistant] On the inside flap it says, First Edition.


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[Assistant] So that way I don't have to be all obvious about it, but I'm gonna know where you stand.


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[Assistant] Check. You're gonna be dead to Leif, but that's alright.


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[Assistant] That's cold-blooded Also got some kids books way the warrior kid 3 where there's a will that is out there And that means we also have way the warrior kid marks mission also those two books are available It's a series and then we got Mikey and the dragon for the little ones Order that get it


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[Assistant] And then we have the original field manual. Field manual 001. Which is called Discipline Equals Freedom. Which is still...


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[Assistant] That you know. I mean, I can't even narrow it down. I was gonna try to narrow it down, but then I'm like, well, is it the person that's on the path, off the path? No, no, it's like everyone. Everyone. So, there's that.


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[Assistant] And the audio version of that is actually on mp3.


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[Assistant] And oh, we have people that are wondering leadership strategy and tactics. Yes, I am reading the audio. So there's that. We also have extreme ownership.


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[Assistant] And Dichotomy and Leadership, the first books I wrote with my brother Leif Babin, who, contrary to what Echo says, those books


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[Assistant] Apply to your business, to your life, to your world. We also have Echelon Front, which is our leadership consultancy, and what we do is solve problems through leadership. Go to echelonfront.com. If you want to have me or any of the team come and speak at your company,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go to Echelonfront.com, don't Google Jocko Speaker, cause they're gonna get through a speakers agency, and it's a middle man. You don't need the middle man, you can go to echelonfront.com. That's my company. And we will get it booked.


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[Assistant] And come and make it happen. We also have EF Online, which is online training for leadership. And it's efonline.com. This is how you can get your entire company aligned behind the same leadership principles.


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[Assistant] So check that out if you need it. We have the muster coming up.


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[Assistant] The next one that we're doing is December 4th and 5th in Sydney, Australia. Listen, every time I say we're going to Sydney, Australia,


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[Assistant] A hundred people ask me, what about Brisbane? What about Taiwan? What about, they ask me all over Southeast Asia.


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[Assistant] And as a matter of fact, a guy just wrote to me on Twitter, uh, only, cause I said, no, we're only going to Sydney. And someone said, only going to Sydney is like doing a tour of the New York, of, of, a tour of the United States and only going to New York.


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[Assistant] And I, and I haven't responded yet, but that's actually what we do. We, we only, like the first, we did one muster.


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[Assistant] Oh, we did it in San Diego. The next year we did another muster. We did it in New York and then we did another one. We did two the next year, something like that. So, the guy's right.


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[Assistant] That is what, we're not, we're not going on tour. We're not a rock band. As much as, as much as we may be feeling like it.


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[Assistant] We're not a rock band. We have jobs and the jobs are echelon front. So we're out working with companies all the time. What we do is occasionally we take the time to go and do an event for a large group of people. That is what the muster is. We're not going to Taiwan. We're not going to Hong Kong. We're not going to Melbourne. We're not going to Perth. We're not going to Brizzy.


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[Assistant] We're going to Sydney. That's where we're going. So if you want to come, come. And that is at ExtremeOwnership.com And of course now we have EF Overwatch and we also


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you need to hire people for your company, go to EF Overwatch or EF Legion. Check out what we've got going on. We're taking combat proven leaders and placing them into civilian companies. And for you vets out there, go to those websites and get your information put in there for when you transition.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] EFOverwatch.com and EF Legion.


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[Assistant] If you want to have more information from myself, if you want to have more information or random thoughts from Echo Charles, we are available on the interwebs. We are on Twitter, on Instagram, and on


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[Assistant] Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And once again, the gift to support that, the Facebook is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is the gift documentary. So check those out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And once again, thanks to the three seven marines that joined us today.


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[Assistant] Kelly Miller, Bill Hampton, John Ferguson, Trent Gibson.


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[Assistant] And to the rest of our service members that are out there in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard.


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[Assistant] Thanks to all of you for what you do every day. And to Corporal Jason Dunham.


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[Assistant] All an example to follow an example of courage and leadership and humility. An example as a warrior.


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[Assistant] You are a true hero and an inspiration.


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[Assistant] And we will do our utmost to live a life worthy of your sacrifice.


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[Assistant] Yes I do, cuz, uh, my camera bag is pretty heavy, and then my computer bag is pretty heavy. It's heavier than a regular computer bag. Well, my computer's kinda heavy.


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[Assistant] Pretty much is what I'm saying. That's what I'm hearing. Hey man, I don't know how a real rock feels. I don't.


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[Assistant] I disagree because when I walk around with that, it's like a little like workout. So then what I do is, I shift my mind like where it's like hey, this isn't really a workout. It's a workout, but it's not the workout.


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[Assistant] Carry on luggage. Carry on luggage. Yes sir. And it's very true because I'm just trying to get from point A to point B.


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[Assistant] Well, even that exactly, but it's, it's like, you know, like that you could, you could isolate that as a work, cause like, when he's talking, oh yes, actually I do know what's going on, because when he explained how it feels to take off, like,


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[Assistant] If you had a rucksack on Didju Jitsu, if you, if the rucksack was like streamlined, I don't know like how, I mean they get, there's varying levels of bulk, right? I mean, there's levels, right? But if you had a streamlined rucksack,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jujitsu might, it might benefit you. Cause you'd get used to the weight? You'd get used to the weight, sure, but no, no, no, as far as like performance goes because you'd be heavier on them.


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[Assistant] To go, uh, like they couldn't really stay on your back. You see what I'm saying?


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[Assistant] Yeaah, it's kinda unrealistic. But nonetheless, I do jujitsu. And you know what, I don't wear a rec sack most of the time. I wear a gi. Some of the time. Half of the time. I don't know. Where do you get your gi from? Origin. So you go to originmain.com. And what is important?


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[Assistant] Well, depends on who you are, but in my opinion, what's significant and significantly important is that they're made in America.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, same deal in America. The materials. Materials. Raw materials. Raw materials, right? Yeah. The cotton and what not. The what? The cotton. The cotton. Whatever, right? You were talking to somebody and you said it like, no, you didn't say cotton.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, well yeaah, I mean, it kinda makes sense if you look at it practically, because if you're gonna be in a situation where like the weather and the temperature is a thing, you're not gonna be like, yeaah, let me get my heavyweight clothes, but not my, my pants. Like, it just doesn't make sense like that, see what I'm saying? So, anytime where it's like a, uh, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like if you're going to monica- Point taken. Point taken. Yeaah. Going up top. Monica. So it's like cool, that's cool and everything, but-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Immunity supplement. Yes. As it were. Also, monk, additional protein in the form of a dessert. Stick with that one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, they were kinda, that was like a love-hate scenario for sure.


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[Assistant] Also, Jocko has a store. It's called JockoStore. JockoStore.com. JP Donnell. Shout out, by the way. He was, well, you know, doing his workout.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Apparently, he posted a picture of post-workout. Posted a picture of post-workout. Picture. Wearing one of the many shirts. Oh, the new.


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[Assistant] So, uh, you know, we say it every week, sure, but I'm saying it again, JockoStore. JockoStore.com, so we can get the stuff to represent while you're on the path. T-shirts.


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[Assistant] Oh yeaah, big time. Oh yeaah, big time. So yeaah, all that stuff, TacoStore.com. Also, you wanna subscribe to the podcast, or should I say, if you wanna subscribe to the podcast, go ahead and do so. I'm not, like, I'm not gonna sit here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I don't know, but it's possible, or it's possible that maybe someone just had stumbled upon podcasts in general. Uh, yeaah. See what I'm saying? Yup. Is that possible?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she's older than you? She was older than me. Alright, well there you go. But here's the thing, you really didn't gain much information because it's not like you, you said do you know what podcasts are. You gotta ask her, do you know whether or not to subscribe. Do you know that it's possible to subscribe to podcasts?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah man, and now she's in the game fully. And either way, whether she knew to subscribe or not, she subscribed. But, the question still remains, does everyone know about podcasts and the subscription option?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm worried about it, bro. I'm not worried. All good. Wait, should I be worried?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you know, I, yeah, well, I think the answer is obvious. Or, would I rather look how I, well, no, because this is a knock on how I sound, really. So technically, the dichotomy, or the other side of the dichotomy would be like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. My kids love that video, by the way. They've been watching it even since before we posted it. Yeah, it's legit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and so there's two things that I, well, there's a bunch of things that I pulled from it, but two things that really stand out, small, seemingly small, but kind of big, where, like, so they stuck together, you know, and so what that was essentially was cover and move.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, just like, there's no real formula to survive, there's like a lot of luck, you know, but man, her bravery basically was the function, or was the result of just milking that luck. Cause she was basically sent to die plenty times, but she would like, sneak out of line and do all this stuff or whatever, and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's like the kind, like, you just get one person to see, like, hey, or even realize, you know the kind where you go, you know, she goes for selection, they're like, no, you're too skinny, you're a muscle man. Sorry, muscle man, is that what it is? Muscle man, yea. It's funny, cause it sounds like muscle man, which is the exact opposite. Nonetheless,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It takes one guard to be like, hey wait, didn't I just send you to go die yesterday kind of thing and then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, according to her, you just do one single sign of resistance, you're like, oh well, they'll just kill you. And it makes sense because we need people to work and obey, that's it. Otherwise, we want you all to be here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She, or it might have been Max. I forget which story it was, but they went from the, oh yea, when she went to work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right before when they were just in harsh conditions. And then they went to work and then they could like take a shower once a week or something like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Since you were kind of engrossed in the story, when you started revealing it, I was like, ooh, that feels like a relief, even to me, you know, hearing it. But man, that's how, that's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll tell you, we be and remain capable. That's a big deal too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of that health part of it is jujitsu. Obviously. And capability. Jujitsu allows for greater capability. Exponentially greater. My opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, so anyway, a lot of us are doing jujitsu. A lot of us are about to do jujitsu. We're gonna need a gi. What gi do we get? Origin gi. Okay. Also, if you do no gi,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get an origin rash guard. The other part of the uniform in the totalitarian gi and no gi scenario.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's not what I mean at all. Like I said, I just learned that word, so you know, I'm practicing and you know, we'll get it right next time for sure. Anyway, originmain.com, that's where you can get this stuff. We also have jeans. Yep. In the event of you not doing jujitsu at any point of the day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they don't look normal. And they don't feel normal. This is my little, uh, theory, hypothesis, whatever. You put on the joggers, you felt the physical comfort, but the psychological and emotional discomfort trumped it. So it can't be the front runner of comfort. Same thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not gonna, uhm, what do you call it? You're not gonna call me a liar. I'm not gonna call you a liar. I'm not gonna refute your own opinion, so hey man, all good, but on a factual level. I'm just gonna say I don't know 100% if I agree with you. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or, justice function. No, but the delta 68.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there you go. There you go. Hey, hey, uh, you know when we get them, we can see for ourselves, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Supplements, joint supplements, very important. Very important. Joint supplements, joint warfare, krill, super krill oil, also additional protein in the form of dessert called


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also a version for the Warrior Kids, Warrior Kid Mulk. Many different, different flavors. That's the one you're gonna have to choose for yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not gonna say, hey, mint chocolate is factually the best one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause you're twins? Well, you know, theoretically no, but oh. No, you're twins though? I'm sorry, theoretically yes, but actually no. I'll give you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, when you are getting your copy of Two Who Survived. Two the le- I didn't know this till the end. Two, like the letter Two. T-W-O. Who Survived.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As opposed to what I thought, I thought it was like a letter to who survived. You see what I'm saying? Oh, oh, okay, okay, I got it. It was like a dedicated kind of situation. Anyway, alright, to who survived, go to JockoPodcast.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Click on the top where it says books from the episodes. Boom, we got you. So you can get it through there. Easy way to just navigate and find it. Also, we have our own store. It's called Jocko Store. So you go to JockoStore.com and this is where you can get more rash guards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Represent the path while you're doing your jujitsu, or surfing, or whatever you use, uh, rash guards for. Some guys, when they do powerlifting, it gives you all the range. Little bit of compression, you know, it's, it's very functional, uh, garment, as it were. Anyway, some t-shirts on there, represent the path. Discipline equals freedom. The attitude of good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, shirts. T-shirts, uh, hoodies, light and heavyweight. Lots of stuff on there if you like it. If you want something, get something. Good way to support as well. Also, subscribe to the podcast. If you haven't already.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, it's important to subscribe to the podcast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess. I dunno. Varying levels of importance. How about that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the nice, the great people up at Irish Oaks Ranch sent me some and you some.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep, it's true. Also, we have a YouTube channel. Official! Got a little check mark on our YouTube channel, by the way. Bro, that's something, it's not nothing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they'll put it on their YouTube channel, which is, you know, it spreads the word, so that's cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 202 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo. Good evening.


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[Assistant] On a bright and violent morning in the central Pacific.


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[Assistant] A dying marine with part of his face shot off saved my life.


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[Assistant] I had been shot through the lower abdomen, hit as my unit waded toward the shore to assault the island.


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[Assistant] Two men from my platoon hauled me back to the LCVP and struggled to lift me into the boat.


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[Assistant] The marine with the ravaged face who had just boarded now saw that they were having trouble with me.


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[Assistant] He reached down, grabbed me with one hand, and pulled me up and over the top of the ramp.


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[Assistant] But not really all that significant in the grand scheme of things. That incident is just a small scene in a very big picture.


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[Assistant] An insignificant event like that. Can you imagine?


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[Assistant] Being gut shot in waist deep water under heavy machine gun fire, barely making it back to a landing craft, which is going to shave, save you, being pulled into that landing craft by another wounded Marine and surviving. And can you imagine considering that, that series of events to be insignificant?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that excerpt is from a book called Faithful Warriors written by Lieutenant Colonel Dean Ladd who served as an enlisted and officer in the Marine Corps.


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[Assistant] In the Pacific campaign in World War II, he participated in the battles for Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan, and Tinian.


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[Assistant] Battles where tens of thousands of Americans were wounded or killed as they fought against the fanatical Japanese imperial war machine.


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[Assistant] What those men actually went through and what those battles were like. This book does an amazing job of giving us a glimpse into this savage part of war. And it is a complete honor.


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[Assistant] To have the author of this book, Dean Ladd, here to talk with us about his experiences. Colonel Ladd, welcome to the program.


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[Assistant] That's incredible. The things that you went through in this book has been, I could not put this book down and this book is just the picture that it paints of what you all went through in that Pacific campaign is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's unbelievable what you guys went through. It truly is. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I guess if we're gonna start, I always like to start


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[Assistant] Mostly I think the stir was in me. He looked so sharp in that uniform and his manner, the way he carried himself, at once modest, but utterly self-assured. Got me thinking about myself and my future. I was only a couple years younger than Lee, but it didn't seem that way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if you've been to San Diego lately but Mission Valley is now a mall.


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[Assistant] And so you're going through that sniper school. Pearl Harbor happens.


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[Assistant] Now did the Japanese ever show up and attack that section of American Samo?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's all good. We got time. So, uh, at what point did you get?


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[Assistant] Uh, the next, the next orders that you were gonna not discard this island anymore, you guys were gonna head out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And somewhere in here, you got your commission becoming, and you became an officer. How did that happen?


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[Assistant] And that's it. You had one year of college, they put you from corporal to second lieutenant.


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[Assistant] Well, you write about that here. Here, we'll go back to the book and here is you actually heading into Guadalcanal.


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[Assistant] And here we go. I remember thinking as my LCVP chugged toward the beach that my time had come.


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[Assistant] And that it would be a time of testing when I would get to show what I was made of at last.


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[Assistant] The regiment was actually above full strength with junior officers to spare. It was an unusual circumstance and I knew it would soon change because junior officers typically suffer the highest casualties relative to the other ranks.


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[Assistant] Attrition would quickly and inevitably take its toll. Lieutenants in command of line units would get killed, wounded, injured, and sick. Extras like me would replace them. Inevitably too, a few junior officers would be relieved for incompetence or cowardice.


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[Assistant] I prayed that I wouldn't be one of them. That I wouldn't turn yellow and let my buddies down when the going got tough. A fate worse than death.


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[Assistant] As for death itself, no worries there. Getting killed was something that happened to the other guy.


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[Assistant] There were no ramps on those early model Higgin boats, and we walked onto Guadalcanal. We hardly got our trousers wet.


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[Assistant] We experienced rougher landings during amphibious assault exercises outside San Diego.


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[Assistant] So, once you get on Guadalcanal, you start to move towards the front lines.


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[Assistant] You know, one thing that I talk about a lot is the possibility of friendly fire occurring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know I had friendly fire incidents happen with me in, in Iraq. And this happened to you as well. I'm going to the book here. You were, you were, you've been moving for a while and you're holding up at night and you guys are in your position. Then all of a sudden, bang, someone yelled another shot fired.


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[Assistant] My g- my arm shot off. Since right in lane where best buddies, a show of concern from the first sergeant might have- might in the circumstances have been expected and would certainly have been warranted. But right, an old salt who is as crusty as they come was not practiced in showing concern even to best buddies who had been wounded in combat.


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[Assistant] Maybe the Jap- Japanese were out there too, tossing a few grenades of their own, but Park didn't think so. He stayed lowed and didn't fire his weapon. I didn't s- I didn't figure it would do any good, even if there were Japanese. You couldn't see nothing. All you could do is sounds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was important for him to, uh, cause I know you say in the book that, that he inherited his father's looks, not his mother's. So he looked more Korean.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, now was Murdoch, did Murdoch have, uh, experience from some of the other campaigns?


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[Assistant] Speaking of, you know, near misses and what not.


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[Assistant] So at that time, that kid that you talk about and you mentioned in the book, this is uhm,


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[Assistant] You know, he's having some, let's see, how did you put it? He had acclimated to conditions on Guadalcanal, that's what you wrote. And, you know, however long that takes before, you know, it's a different, it's a different


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Montana cow. Am I saying that right? The Montana cow. Montana cow. This, this river, this offensive that you guys start on 10 November.


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[Assistant] Our mission objective was to engage, defeat and destroy the enemy formations in our path.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you're saying some, some guys would, could, couldn't even carry on barely cause it smelled so bad.


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[Assistant] You say, like that kid twirling the skull, I was acclimating to the conditions on Guadalcanal. I'd been on the island for seven days.


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[Assistant] So then you guys, later that day an enemy unit penetrated our line and ambushed weapons platoon, killing three marines with a burst of enemy fire, with a burst of machine gun fire, and then the entire offensive had suddenly been called off. And not only that, we were gonna give up the ground we had taken, relinquishing it to the Japanese. What the hell we thought. So you get told, hey, you guys, stop attacking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the language of naval tacticians, the coming together of two fleets in Sea Lark Channel constituted what is known as a meeting engagement. But collision engagement is a better term for describing what happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Steaming more or less blindly into the channel, the fleets ran into each other at oblique angles. Their ships quickly became intermingled, resulting in a close quarters melee that saw the combatants charging madly about, their big guns flashing and booming, hurling red hot shells and high flaming arcs above the channel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Blurn- burning like roman candles. Fountains of fire sparking and shooting flames and blasting big chunks of steel in every direction.


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[Assistant] All the while, star shells and flares burst high above the channel and then faded like dying galaxies as they drifted down at the end of their parachutes.


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[Assistant] We were a vocal audience, awestruck and profane. A ship would explode and all up and down the line you'd hear men exclaiming, Jesus Christ and holy shit and oh my fucking God did you see that?


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[Assistant] It was thrilling, really. You couldn't help but feel that way.


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[Assistant] But I also couldn't help but wondering which ships were ours and how we could dis- and how they could distinguish friend from foe.


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[Assistant] I thought of the many men who were losing their young lives right before our eyes. I felt very fortunate to be safe in my foxhole, and I wondered, who's winning?


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[Assistant] As that's going on, obviously you have to realize that if the Americans don't win this thing,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Early the next morning, B company crossed the river to spearhead the attack by another green army battalion. The one, the first, the 182nd along the coastal flat toward the base of Point Cruz. So you guys, you guys took lead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you talk about, you mentioned Wimpy, right? A little earlier, and that's a heck of a nickname. It doesn't sound like it suits you very well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, but we talk about, you know, a lot of times we talk about leadership on this podcast.


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[Assistant] He possessed a commanding voice which he used in a full-throated bellow when reading off one of his charges, re- when reading off one of his charges for doing something stupid on Samoa before I was commissioned, I had been one of his charges and had usually, more than once deservedly, been on the receiving


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[Assistant] End of one of his harangs. But now I outranked him.


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[Assistant] It wasn't that I was afraid of him, rather I respected him too much and knew him, and knew too well that he was a great marine to think that I could or should be telling him what to do. And I thought that he might resent my status and just to be cantankerous make things difficult for me. I needn't have worried about right.


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[Assistant] Consummate professional, he supported me fully and sincerely. I should have expected that. After all, it was because of his recommendation that I received my commission. He looked on me as his protege and he wanted me to succeed in part because my success would reflect well on him, but mainly because he was genuinely, genuinely proud of me.


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[Assistant] Also because I was a known quantity whom he had personally mentored, he much preferred me to be giving orders rather than some 90 day wonder fresh out of training in the states. Since he had taught me everything I knew, he was confident that in combat together, we would more or less be thinking along the same lines, an important connection for a top sergeant to have with his platoon leader.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On Hill 78, Second Platoon was dealing with a lone sniper who had fired on us from the open trees on the coastal flap below. He was high up in one of those trees, high enough to place him a little above the hilltop allowing him to shoot down at us at a shallow angle. He potted us, potted us for a better part of four hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Legs and booted feet dangling from the limb of a huge banyan tree about 150 yards from my position I lifted the field glasses a notch to the clump of leaves where those


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Above those legs. I couldn't see him, but he had to be there. Japanese legs were always attached to Japanese bodies. Just then he took a shot at me.


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[Assistant] He must have seen me looking. Maybe my field glasses glinting in the sun and give me away. His bullet hit the ground just inches from my nose, spraying dirt in my face.


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[Assistant] I dropped my field glasses and snatched up my springfield. Firing from the prone position, I unloaded the entire clip at the clump of leaves above his feet. Five shots, one after the other, working the bolt quickly but smoothly so as to not spoil my aim, just as I had been taught to do and just as


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had practiced on the Marine Corps rifle ranges. I didn't think about it. I didn't have to think.


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[Assistant] He didn't drop from the tree, he didn't drop his rifle, but that was to be expected. Japanese snipers customarily tied themselves and their rifles to the trees. Bottom line, he didn't shoot at us after that. He was dead alright. The first man I had killed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright. The 8th Marines 1st and 2nd battalions were to advance by side in columns into ravine then attack and capture hill 83.


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[Assistant] Ridgeline. The first battalion was to move forward on the right. B company would lead in the battalion's advance and my platoon would lead the company's advance. So that you put you, does that put your company right, your, your company right at the front.


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[Assistant] Following an artillery bombardment, second platoon with the rest of the battalion behind it passed through the army lines and advanced into the ravine. Enemy machine guns and riflemen fired down on us from concealed positions on the ridge some 75 yards ahead and above us.


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[Assistant] Either enemy or friendly. The battlefield seems empty and you feel


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[Assistant] He thought one of our guys had given the order. Then we both realized what had happened. Those clever Japanese, one of them, someone fluent in American English, had given that order. Very clever. He must be pleased with himself. He must be laughing at us just about now. Him and his men laughing. And how did he know that we were Baker Company?


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[Assistant] I felt very exposed and insecure, judging by the wide-eyed look he gave me, DeMoss felt the same. DeMoss inspected his rifle and discovered that he had a bullet, had pierced his magazine, barely missing the nose, his nose in the process.


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[Assistant] He never cursed, never uttered profanities, and now, true to form, his big eye still is saucers. His eye still is big as saucers, he exclaimed. Well, I'll be a dirty name. Then he discarded his rifle and started throwing grenades at the top of the ridge.


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[Assistant] The reality of our sudden harrowing plight then struck me. This was my first major combat test as a platoon leader and I realized that I had to take immediate and firm control of myself.


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[Assistant] He was shot through the neck, killed instantly. He fell at my feet. For a moment I just looked at him, his eyes wide open, lifeless stared back at me. Then I realized that now more than ever, I had to get a grip on things and seize control of what was becoming an increasingly chaotic situation.


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[Assistant] Is that something you had thought about? What made you realize that? What made you realize, oh wow, I better do something cause I'm in charge and I need to make some decisions here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going to the book here, the ammunition was quickly distributed. So this is you, you called for ammunition. The ammunition was quickly distributed and once again we moved uphill, shooting as we went. Another of my man, men, Private Walter Cuss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Several attempts were made to reach him and drag him back, all unsuccessful.


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[Assistant] PFC James Bell said, I'm going up there, I'll bring him down. He was off and running before anyone could stop him.


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[Assistant] And he was shot through the chest well before reaching Cuss's body.


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[Assistant] We were able to retrieve Bell, and he was still alive as we carried him down and out of the line of fire, but he was just about gone.


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[Assistant] This was the first time I had seen such a wound and it was a terrible sight. Our corpsman tried to patch him up but there was little he could do. A sucking chest wound needs to be sealed internally as well as externally and the corpsman could only treat the outside. Finally, Belle said, it looks like this is goodbye.


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[Assistant] Soon after that, we quit attacking and withdrew. We couldn't dislodge the enemy from the ridge. We had been defeated. Our losses were heavy.


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[Assistant] My platoon alone suffered seven casualties. Four killed. Reynolds, Bell, Cuss, and Private Robert Kessler.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three wounded, PFC James Harris, Private McBurney, and Private named Manderville. Total casualties for 1st Battalion were 9 killed and 23 wounded. Overall in the period spanning 18-23 November, the 8th Marines lost 42 men killed and many more wounded.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And was that uhm, was that Captain LeBlanc that you're talking about? Yes it is. So, so Captain LeBlanc was your company commander?


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[Assistant] It sounds like from the book, well, let me give you your thoughts on him. We called him Little Napoleon. He was notoriously eager to make a name for himself and just as notorious, just as notoriously averse to taking risks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's telling you to go back to the army and tell them what, you know, what the enemy disposition is.


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[Assistant] Then I came upon the body of an American soldier. He lay slightly above me and to my right, astride a narrow trail leading to the top ridge. His abdomen had been torn open and his intestines had spilled out and were spread across the ground, a grisly and heart-rending sight. I hurried past him thinking, I wonder what his dreams were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're thinking, I wonder what his dreams were, and will that happen to me?


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[Assistant] A frightened voice crying out. We're taking a lot of fire. Platoon leader hit. Leg blown off. Get us out of here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That brought me to my senses and I ran down the slope into the jungle. I stood there for a minute, gasping for breath, shaking and thinking, holy smokes, almost bought the farm on that one. Holy smokes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well uhm, what do they say? A cat has nine lives, so luckily we only have eight to cover.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On November 25th, we were pulled off the line and sent to positions.


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[Assistant] There was always a possibility that Japanese warships would foray into sea lark channel during the night and throw a few hundred large cowable shells into our soggy environs. But these dangers were negligible compared to what we had recently been through on the front line and we did not worry about them. Actually, we did not worry about much of anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was not an unpleasant state. We were purely glad to be alive and the fact that no one was shooting at us, at least not directly or intentionally, made us feel downright euphoric.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were living for the moment and for the moment everything was fine and we were content.


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[Assistant] Now the other thing you go into here, which is interesting, is, uh, during this period, a number of Marines took steps to upgrade their personal armament.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The main object of their desire was the superb M1 Garand semi-automatic rifle that had been issued to the army.


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[Assistant] We still had the old ones. The Model 1903 Springfield we carried was a fine weapon, but it was obsolete. The old Salts loved the 03 like a Viking loves his broadsword, but the kids were unsentimental about the rifle because they had no history with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You guys had Tommy guns, which you said weren't really all that great for most of the purposes. The rising gun.


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[Assistant] On the night of 30-31 November, a Japanese task force steamed into Sea Lark Channel, bringing food to the beleaguered Japanese forces on Guadalcanal. Our warship sailed forth to intercept it, meeting the enemy fleet in that off disputed gap between Savile Island and Guadalcanal just off.


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[Assistant] One of our heavy cruisers, Northampton, was struck by two torpedoes within a matter of seconds. Consumed by fire, she sank a few hours later.


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[Assistant] The heavy cruisers Minneapolis, Minneapolis, New Orleans and Pensacola were severely damaged.


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[Assistant] The battle had been a clear tactical victory for the Japanese, but a strategic defeat. The task force had failed with its primary mission to deliver food to the Japanese army on Guadalcanal.


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[Assistant] This was a calamitous development for the Japanese. Even before the battle, their food stocks were desperately low. Now they began falling below subsistence levels. The entire enemy army was growing physically weaker because the soldiers simply didn't have enough to eat.


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[Assistant] We were in better shape than the Japanese overall, but only in a relative sense. The 1st Marine Division in particular was greatly reduced by illness and sheer exhaustion.


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[Assistant] A large number of its men were unfit for duty, and many more were only marginally capable of rendering effective frontline service. The High Command, recognizing that the entire division had just about reached the end of its operational utility, pulled it off the front lines and began sending it units to Australia starting on 9 December.


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[Assistant] And meanwhile, on 11 December, the 8th Marines resumed return to the ridges.


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[Assistant] Alright, these dispositions, meaning these two ridges that you guys had occupied.


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[Assistant] You guys, during this, you also talk about the fact that


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[Assistant] You, you would be yelling stuff back and forth to the Japanese.


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[Assistant] They'd be yelling at you guys and you'd yell back at them. And it sounds like during the daytime, well you say it was during the daytime was a policy became one of live and let live during the day.


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[Assistant] The others had been wounded, but somehow they'd beaten back their attackers.


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[Assistant] And terrorize them we most certainly did. Some guys really enjoyed this part of the job. Teenagers who found their true nature in the jungle, who discovered that they were born for the warrior life.


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[Assistant] How you could take kids like these and put them out into the jungle and in just a few weeks they'd be great at jungle warfare. For them it was like playing cowboys and Indians. They'd come back from a patrol and you'd hear them talk. How many teeth did you get? Or how many did you kill? And they'd brag, well I killed three or four.


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[Assistant] That's crazy after all those years. Uh, you know, we talked a little bit about, um, about Murdoch.


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[Assistant] And uh, you talk about him a little bit here. Cause Captain, what happened to Captain LeBlanc? Did he get...


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[Assistant] Eventually LeBlanc was relieved and replaced by Murdoch, who's an ideal, a Boston Irishman. Murdoch was very funny and very tough, a superb combat, a superb combat commander.


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[Assistant] Very few men who had him as their CEO, including me, received


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[Assistant] Decorations. Murdoch explained, I didn't recommend many people. I didn't care if a machine gunner killed 50 men. That's what he was supposed to do. That's what he's getting paid for. That was my attitude. Once in Hawaii we had a big formation with a division and they decorated all these guys. One company would give 40 medals out. I'd give one.


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[Assistant] My attitude was, hey, killing Japs is our job, we're not doing it for medals.


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[Assistant] And here, here you start to talk about just the whole, just the, the


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[Assistant] Uh, in reality in combat, there were a few instances when men used bayonets in the traditional manner fixed to their rifles. Bayonet drills were performed for their psychological effect, so that men would learn the psychology of the bayonet, namely to kill brutally, quickly, and unthinkingly without compunction or moral qualms.


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[Assistant] But our training merely paved the way for our transformation into hardened killers. Exposure to actual combat accomplished and completed the process. You got hard or you died. It was that simple.


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[Assistant] We knew all the stories. The rape of Nan King, the Badon Death March, atrocities committed far and wide and often against prisoners. We believed correctly that we could expect no pity if we fell into their hands.


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[Assistant] They neither asked for quarter nor gave any and we responded in kind. If they had set rules as we believed, we were damn sure going to play by them.


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[Assistant] What other choice do we have? They simply would not surrender. They would not stop coming at us until we killed them. Very quickly we learned that trying to take prisoners was a waste of time and dangerous. Even the wounded, if we went to treat them, would try and kill us by usually by blowing up everyone themselves and the corpsmen who had stopped to help them with a grenade.


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[Assistant] No sense in taking chances. This kill-or-be-killed approach to war was as brutalizing as it was brutal and affected everyone to some degree.


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[Assistant] Murdock recalled a corpsman who came up to me and said, hey lieutenant, I've got, I've got a live one, can I shoot him? I said sure, go ahead. Corpsmen weren't supposed to have weapons, and we shouldn't have shot that wounded guy, but I let him do it.


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[Assistant] We all, we all did it all the time. Because if we took a prisoner, it would take two men at least to send him back to the rear. And we were so thin, our lines were really thin because we had a lot of guys sick. Our units were very much depleted.


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[Assistant] But we were not without sin in this regard, far from it.


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[Assistant] Murdock, for example, never took any prisoners. And here's Murdock. I wasn't nice. I did bad things. Looking back over the years, I can say we probably committed as many atrocities against the dead bodies of the Japanese as they did to ours. Pulling teeth. For example. Gold. For example, we'd heard Japs


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[Assistant] Wanted to die looking at the sun. So we'd roll them over and stick their faces in the dirt so we couldn't, so they couldn't see the sun. Our guys would cut off fingers and make fobs, which believe it or not, with the finger of the Jap's finger hanging down. And they'd go out there with the knives and pliers trying to pull out gold teeth.


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[Assistant] Enjoyed the killing, the brutality, the horror, all of it. It is important to establish that on the continuum of brutal human behavior.


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[Assistant] The rest of us were not all that far removed from them.


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[Assistant] And we tended to move closer as the war went on. Some men are more capable than others when it comes to killing, but all men are capable.


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[Assistant] One way we improved on this capability, such improvement being vital to our effectiveness as marines, not to mention our very survival, was to look on our enemy as hateful creatures less than human. From a psychological standpoint, it became easy to kill them. We were killing animals, not men.


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[Assistant] To place in the geography of the mind where pulling gold teeth out of corpses was not all that outrageous.


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[Assistant] It's, it's hard to figure out what's going on over there right now. I've saw some fresh reports of what's going on and absolutely yeaah, it does not look good.


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[Assistant] You also had some people that couldn't, that didn't adopt that mentality and here's Murdoch talking about it. Talking about people that couldn't.


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[Assistant] Murdoch told our company, now listen, I'm gonna send some of you guys home. If you fuck up, you're going to go.


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[Assistant] But they were always present in your head and on your mind. You could never fully let go or get rid of them.


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[Assistant] The unrelenting mental strain, not to do, not to mention the physical dangers that caused it, made us twitchier each passing day.


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[Assistant] Yeah, oh yeah, we were just talking about, the reason I remember, we were just talking about it yesterday, and he goes, yeah, that wasn't smart. It wasn't smart, cause who knows what's gonna happen. I mean, those guys, if they had guns, they might have shot. I mean, there's all kinds of crazy things that could happen.


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[Assistant] Guadalcanal and, and why, what made it?


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[Assistant] We, right after it ended, we were taken off Beishio and sent back to Hawaii, but on Guadalcanal, we were on Guadalcanal for three months. For the amount of time we were there, we didn't do all that much fighting, but there were other things, the sickness and the heat especially, the living conditions were the worst on Guadalcanal.


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[Assistant] After a while they didn't even bother to yell at us. They rarely achieved success when they did attack in battle we found.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's a lack of leadership and maneuver warfare, right? That's the basic thing. No maneuver at all. No maneuver. Just, hey, we're going forward, we're going to do a frontal assault. And they would just get killed, get mowed down. And that happened time and time again. And here we are.


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[Assistant] Uh, the Japanese thought their indomitable will would provide them with a margin for victory. It did not occur to them or they could not acknowledge that the Marines and soldiers they were battling were equally indomitable and in the end, victorious.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, so uh, January 10th you begin going on offense.


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[Assistant] Our mission orders issued by General Patch were to attack and destroy the Japanese forces remaining on Guadalcanal.


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[Assistant] We moved up and I'm just reading and I always have to mention this, I'm obviously not reading this whole book.


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[Assistant] I could read this whole book. I want to read this whole book because the book is outstanding but I'm jumping around so if it seems a little bit scattered it's because I'm jumping from, I'm skipping over big chunks that you're telling with great detail. And this is, this is one of the most outstanding accounts that exists of these campaigns.


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[Assistant] Just know that. You have to buy the book. The book is called Faithful Warriors.


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[Assistant] And a thousand stitch belt, which is a piece of cloth embroidered with a thousand stitches by well wishers that he carried for good luck.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. So you, you, you held onto this stuff and eventually figured out who this guy.


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[Assistant] Uhm, yeah, cause they didn't have enough witnesses living after the war to explain.


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[Assistant] So even though you're gathering souvenirs, this is not over yet. And here you go, the fighting was constant but not everywhere at the same time. One squad might be resting while nearby another was engaged with a sharp fight.


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[Assistant] With a sniper, a machine gun nest, and all up and down the line, automatic weapons rattled. Rifles cracked, grenades popped, the air carried the astringent smell of cordite.


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[Assistant] Uh, stretcher bearers, many of them musicians in the divisions band.


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[Assistant] Ran around the battlefield picking up the wounded and carrying them back to the battalion aid station.


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[Assistant] The action much the same as the day before. Intermittent clashes with Japanese diehards. Some of the Japanese we came upon booed themselves up in their holes or just sat there and let us kill them with grenades.


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[Assistant] One guy, you lost a guy named Gunner Lund.


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[Assistant] And Gunnerlund had kind of a, had a kid that looked up to him, named Herschel Wilske, and you were the one.


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[Assistant] Okay, so Willsky, you're the one that has to tell Willsky that, you know, his, his, he is no more. He's no more. And here we go. Shortly thereafter.


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[Assistant] It fell upon me to break the news of Lund's death to Corporal Hershel Wilski. Ski, as he was known, was a barman and a squad leader in Lund's platoon.


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[Assistant] Gunner Lund was a popular figure in B Company and Old Salt who was trusted and respected for his courage, competence, and common sense battle wisdom and loved for his tough, his rough humor and for the obvious and genuine affection and concern he felt for his young charges. Before the war he had been seagoing marine, serving on the beloved aircraft, the Lexington.


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[Assistant] He'd always been smoking a cigar. How he was able to keep himself stocked with stogies on Guadalcanal is anyone's guess. Such are the talents of an old salt. He used to say that after the war he was going to buy himself a big shiny Cadillac convertible and ride it around smoking his cigars.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you said that that was a simple dream for a simple, very good man, a dream never realized.


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[Assistant] Murdoch's calm ski down and told him that he just couldn't up and quit. That it would be desertion in the face of the enemy and that he would get in a lot of trouble for it. Murdoch spoke softly with him.


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[Assistant] Exchanging one madness for another, he went from being a marine who did his job and did it well to being a marine who did his job with a singular passion. From that day forward he hated the Japanese with a savage intensity and took it on himself to personally avenge Lun's death.


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[Assistant] He always returned eventually, but with little to say about his exploits, he was the quiet type guys like him usually are.


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[Assistant] And so this continues on and then you say this and so to the end. My memory of the final days of January offensive is blurry and I find it difficult to remember the details. At reunions, we reminisce about our very limited personnel, personal perspective of the offense and the countless little battles that were fought as we went forward.


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[Assistant] About adequate cover for incoming artillery and other life-threatening events in our immediate area. We advance on a broad front but never in an even line. Some units always move faster than others depending on the terrain and the resistance they encountered. We went up and down more hills and ridges, up and down, up and down, sometimes fighting and killing the Japanese, sometimes just killing them.


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[Assistant] I would be getting off the island just in time. In the meantime there were no duties to perform.


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[Assistant] So, we wrap this up, this section on January, on 31 January the 1-8 and the entire second regiment boarded the troop transport Crescent City.


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[Assistant] According to army historians about 1600 were killed and 4245 were wounded.


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[Assistant] One way or another, for the living and the dead, the fighting on Guadalcanal was over forever.


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[Assistant] Because from the hell of Guadalcanal, you went to a place called New Zealand.


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[Assistant] You, you highlight some of the good things about New Zealand and then I, then you get to what apparently is the biggest highlight in New Zealand. It says this, there were girls. Holy smokes.


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[Assistant] The contrast was immediately apparent and profoundly jarring. We had learned how to handle hell, but heaven would take some getting used to.


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[Assistant] So, you guys, I mean, you talk about some of the, uh, things that happened there and some of those adjustments getting into it and then the kinda, I guess the kinda mayhem and chaos that you create.


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[Assistant] To get back to the military side of this, after a few weeks in New Zealand, we started training in earnest. We needed a lot of training both to get ourselves back into shape and incorporate replacements who are streaming in from the states. Our experience on Guadalcanal provided the template for our training. We built positions on the Japanese model and practiced


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[Assistant] But it's interesting, you know, we, we talk a lot about kinda the principles of combat leadership and one of the most important principles of combat leadership is decentralized command. And that is allowing your subordinate leaders to lead. And that right there.


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[Assistant] Fast forward a bit through the, you talk some more about that training and what it's like in New Zealand and the...


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[Assistant] Continues on, and then finally, we get to this, I'm not gonna say that we knew we were leaving for good, but many sense this might be the case. So did everyone in Wellington. The girls especially. Just before our ships cast off again for Hawke's Bay, a number of girls, some hugely pregnant, came down to the docks to find out what was going on. Nobody could or would tell them anything.


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[Assistant] After a few days at sea it was announced that we were going to invade the Tarawa Toll in the Gilbert Islands. Maps and sand tables were brought out.


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[Assistant] Our sudden and permanent disappearance from New Zealand was very hard on our Kiwi girlfriends and wives.


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[Assistant] One day they woke up to find us gone, and knew we were headed into battle.


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[Assistant] Then towards the end of November, they started hearing rumors that a lot of us had been killed. The rumors proved to be true.


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[Assistant] And here we are, the Navy promised us a preliminary bombardment that would blow the Japanese and their defenses to kingdom come, leaving the Marines to carry out what would amount to little more than a mopping up operation.


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[Assistant] Gentlemen, he told the assemblage, we will obliterate it. This statement was passed on to rank and file and we believed it.


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[Assistant] At the same briefing, a battleship captain declared, we are going to bombard at 6,000 yards. We've got so much armor, we're not afraid of anything the Japs can throw back at us.


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[Assistant] The commander of the 2nd Marine Division, Major General Julian C. Smith, was incensed by the captain's brave words. Gentlemen, he retorted, remember one thing, when the Marines land and meet the enemy at Bayonet Point, the only armor a Marine will have is his khaki shirt.


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[Assistant] I had, I had a situation, uh, where my guys in the Battle of Ramadi


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[Assistant] Got caught in a friendly fire situation.


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[Assistant] Yep, and uh, an army unit that we had called for QRF came in and put about 150 rounds of .50 caliber machine gun fire into the building that my guys were in at a range of about 25 meters.


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[Assistant] Boats destroyed, units scattered, many casualties. The voices on the loudspeakers enumerate these calamities in measured tones. They sound calm, almost detached.


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[Assistant] If you, if you didn't know better, you'd think the situation wasn't too terrible. But we knew better.


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[Assistant] The tides, the tides which were supposed to cover the reef to an adequate depth proved uncooperative. The water is too shallow, just inches in, just inches deep in some spots and always less than needed for the three foot draft of the landing craft.


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[Assistant] And you're on the reserves, and finally you guys are told, alright, load your boats. Which means you guys now know you're going in, and you say here, we don't know where the brass is sending us yet, but we don't ex- but we expect to go where the fighting is hottest, and we expect to go soon. We circle and circle in the lagoon.


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[Assistant] Some of the sick men stick their heads over the sides to retch while others puke into the wooden deck. The men standing next to them just step aside like it's no big deal to get sick, because it really isn't a big deal. When the men, when the sick men finish retching, they straighten up as if nothing had happened. No one thinks the worst of them for it.


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[Assistant] After a while, depending on how long we're out there in a boat, the deck might be slippery with puke, but that's no big deal either.


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[Assistant] Minutes go by, lengthening into hours. The hours go by, but we're going nowhere. We're just going around and around.


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[Assistant] The sounds of battle are muted this far out. We can hear artillery explosions, but not small arms fire. We're all peering over the sides, looking at Bejio, looking at the fires and the smoke and the explosions. It's an awesome sight, a massive smoke and flames. Holy Moses, look at that, we say.


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[Assistant] Not for the last time we ask ourselves how many of the defenders, how the defenders could survive in a place so torn up. It's an irrelevant question really. Many Japanese have survived and they're killing a lot of Marines.


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[Assistant] We know that a lot of our men were killed going in and we know that the men who did make it ashore are fighting for their lives. We expect we'll have a tough go of it too. We're apprehensive who wouldn't be.


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[Assistant] And we're wondering how we'll behave in combat. I know the new guys are especially concerned with how they'll behave. The great fear, the greatest of fear, is you won't be able to handle it. That you'll turn yellow, that you'll let your buddies down.


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[Assistant] You acknowledge that it could happen to you, that it might happen to you, but the rational part of your brain makes you understand this. But in the such circumstances as we now find ourselves, emotion trumps rationality every time.


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[Assistant] You've gotta do a lot of hard thinking to reach this conclusion. However, and because we're all thinking so hard, we're not talking that much. Just as well, the engine is so loud you can't talk or hear anyone except the guy standing next to you.


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[Assistant] One moment in the sun, one moment the sun is above the horizon and the sky is bright, then the sun drops below the horizon in the dark. That's how night comes in the tropics. No twilight.


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[Assistant] It's bright one moment, dark the next. Bezio isn't dark, however. Bezio is on fire.


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[Assistant] And the sky above it glowing red. Suddenly it's morning!


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[Assistant] Some guys are sipping from their canteens or nibbling on their rations, although there's not much eating because we just aren't hungry.


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[Assistant] None of us really believed we'd go in standing up. Now, not that we think Major Hayes is feeding us a line. He's a good man. He wouldn't do that.


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[Assistant] More like it. Totally uninformed. Communications with the units ashore are disarray and several instances functionally non-existent. The same goes for communications with General Smith and his staff on the Battleship Maryland, the Invasion's fleet flagship.


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[Assistant] This is due in large measure to failure of our radios, which are too fragile to withstand the rigors of amphibious assault.


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[Assistant] In any event, we're relieved the waiting is almost over. The business of riding around in boats is for the birds. We want to get ashore and throw some punches. I'm standing in the bow of our LCVP. Behind me are 32 marines of my platoon, most of them teenagers, most of them new to combat. I look at them and they look at me. I see fresh, boyish faces.


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[Assistant] Their helmets all seem a size too big, accentuating they're boyish, making them look young as well. Most of them really are.


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[Assistant] Their helmets jammed down on their heads. The straps pulled tight under their chin. You can wear helmets this way so they don't fall off while you're clambering down the cargo nets of the troop transport into your boat. The helmet is nothing more than a steel pot, heavy and getting heavier the longer you wear it. If it falls off while you're on that net, it could hit somebody beneath you. Somebody could get hurt.


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[Assistant] And that's when, and that's not when marines are supposed to get hurt. Not during the boating phase as it's called. The phase of the operation when the emphasis is on safety. The getting hurt part. The part where safety is, one might say, beside the point, comes later.


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[Assistant] Well, I suppose they are. We call them men. We treat them as men. We expect them to act like men. They are, after all, United States Marines. But really, they're kids just out of high school. Or not even that. Kids with rifles, true. Kids trained to kill, also true. But kids, nevertheless. Just turned 17, many of them.


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[Assistant] To use a term like that has long since fallen into general disuse. They're youths. A state of being between childhood and adulthood.


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[Assistant] Today's American male exercising a lifestyle choice can often, can and often does loiter for many years in that state. But in the mid-1940s, in a world at war, the state of youth tends to pass swiftly and, do I need to say it, violently.


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[Assistant] The youths, the kids on my boat have got a lot of growing up to do. Unfortunately, they'll be doing a hefty portion of that growing up in the coming minutes and hours. In that period, many, far too many will undergrow all the growing up they will ever experience. They will transition.


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[Assistant] With almost obscene dispatch from youth to adulthood to the grave.


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[Assistant] Abegio, youth won't be served. It'll be served up and consumed literally in fire. These youths will be men only briefly. And then, they will be just a memory forever. All of this sounds as if I'm a grizzled veteran.


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[Assistant] I am a combat veteran, I fought on Guadalcanal earlier this year, but the fact is I'm just 23 years old, still young, and not all that grizzled in appearance or temperament. Practically speaking though,


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[Assistant] Is an invisible line about 6,000 yards offshore that runs parallel to the landing beaches. When we get there, our boats are form up.


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[Assistant] All in line abreast, arrayed like a cavalry squadron waiting for the bugle to sound charge. The coxswains rev and gun the engines in neutral gear, and the boats are rearing and lurching, chump-charping at the bit. It's as if the coxswains are struggling to rein in war horses that can't contain their eagerness for battle.


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[Assistant] Our boat's engine is blasting, the noise almost painful to the ears. We're pumped up. My men, I and I, I, we're really pumped up. The adrenaline is flowing, surging through us, clutching our weapons, looking over the side of the boat at the island, breathing hard, thinking fast, focused on the task at hand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our coxswain shifts out of neutral, pushes the throttle wide open, the engine bellows, belches smoke, the stern dips, the men in the boat rock back slightly as the boat leaps forward. Now we're barreling toward the island. Our boat, all the boats, 600 men, more or less, of the 1st Battalion 8th Marines, water churning,


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[Assistant] We're about 800 yards from the shore. When zip, zip, zip, we hear tiny objects flying past. And those aren't hornets, boys. They're bullets. We're in the range of the Japanese machine guns. And good gosh, they're shooting at us. We find this.


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[Assistant] Look, by golly, there's some enemy fire hitting right over there. Look over there. That's me talking. That's all of us talking. Talking and pointing at the impact circles in the water. Little splats, little dots where bullets hit. People shooting at us. Fascinating.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Realizing that we could get our head shot off, we ducked down, ducked down into the boat. The more bullets splatting into the water, but none hit our LCVP.


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[Assistant] Big 13 millimeter machine guns and the even bigger dual purpose anti-boat anti-aircraft guns which range in size from 37 millimeter to 77 millimeter and they're lobbing shells from 70 millimeter mountain howitzers.


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[Assistant] They're not my con- chief concern however. And never mind that they might at any second blow us to eternity. What really bugs me is being hunkered down in this boat where I can't see anything.


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[Assistant] What are they thinking? They're watching me. Watching to see how I'm bearing up.


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[Assistant] Well, I'm watching them too, and for the same reason. They look okay.


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[Assistant] The boat is racing toward the shore, when CRRING! Scraping bottom, metal grinding on coral, it abruptly stops. We're thrown forward, cursing. We've run aground.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All along the reef it's the same. Boats grinding to a halt on Basio's fringing reef. I think what the heck. The tide is supposed to be up. The water deep enough to allow the LCVPs to clear the reef. We're 600 yards from the shore. 600 long yards. This just cannot be. Wrong. It can be. It is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Though we're not aware of it, we're victims of the same disagreeable title conditions that fouled up yesterday's landings. This is as far as we go, our cocks and yells. We're going to unload. His passengers are not happy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are exclamations of astonishment and protest. Oh shit, you gotta be kidding. But he's not kidding. Yeah, this is as far as we go, he repeats. We're hung up. We've hit the reef. You gotta get out here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The cables, which are still strung along the sides of the hull, unwind with a metallic rasp. The ramp screeches as it opens, drops, splashes into the water.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Framed by the sides of the bottom and the bottom of the boat. Orange fire, red fire and black, black smoke. The fire is shooting up. The smoke is roiling, curling, climbing as fast and high. The sky isn't high enough to contain it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'd think we were looking at a volcano being born. You wonder what could produce so much smoke.


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[Assistant] Surely by now, everything on Basio that can burned, has burned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So where is all that smoke coming from? From the bowels of the earth, it would seem. From somewhere deep underground, under the ocean. From the ever blazing furnaces of the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And let's not forget the explosions. There are a lot of them. Explosions here, there, everywhere. Fire and fireballs, tongues of flame, crimson and yellow flashes in the smoke.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm at the front of the boat, the lieutenant, the platoon leader. Time for me to lead.


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[Assistant] A few seconds go by, I was, a few seconds ago, I was deploring the limited protection offered by the thin metal ramp. Now I'm deploring the lack of that limited protection.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was after all better than nothing, which is what I've got now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I kinda feel sick. And I'm thinking, God, why am I in this mess? What am I doing here? But I'm resigned to the situation. I've gotta ride it out no matter what happens. No turning back now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Calm and warm like bath water, almost soothing. A pleasant contrast to the still cool morning air. It's murky though. Sand and coral all stirred up beneath the surface. None of that crystalline purity that comes to mind when you picture a tropical lagoon.


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[Assistant] War comes to paradise and literally fouls it up.


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[Assistant] So you look down, going back to this point when the ramp actually opens and you see you've got 600 yards to go and it's just nothing but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You say here 600 yards, 6 football fields, just under a third of a mile. If you run that distance on dry land unencumbered and unimposed.


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[Assistant] You'll be gasping at the finish line. I don't care what kind of shape you're in. We're in water and we're wearing and carrying 60 pounds or more of gear and the Japanese are ripping us apart. They've got an absolutely clear field of fire and we have to walk straight into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Marines are the world's experts in amphibious warfare. The Corps has been training for the past two decades.


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[Assistant] But we can see where they hit, splat, splat, splat, like raindrops dotting the water, dot pattern sweeping back and forth across our line, curtains, a curtain of fire it's called, curtain of fire passing over us, through us.