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[Assistant] Something else inside the chopper had torn up Bill Cleveland really bad. Just in front of him and to my right was a long shack and a large tree. It's high leaves rustling in the hot wind and throwing some shade into me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The only open area was between, between me, that shack and my Hilo, my Hilo's cockpit, a clear field of fire. Randy and Gary knew what they were doing.


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[Assistant] They handed me my MP5 and the single spare magazine, a total of 60 rounds of 9mm ammo. But they didn't say a word as they walked off around the nose of the helicopter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I heard Bill's voice again and twisted my head around. Shookart and Gordon had placed him on the ground behind me. He was still incoherent and in great pain. Some of his flight gear had been removed and his trousers were soaked in blood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I suddenly missed my family very much, especially my young son Joey. I did not want to die here.


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[Assistant] And even as I fought it, the fear began to well up. I was badly injured and scared and there was no doubt about it. I did not want to fall in the hands of the Somalis. Just a few weeks before, they'd overrun some Nigerian troops and rumors about what they had done to them were too gruesome to believe.


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[Assistant] And the Somalis had done that to fellow Africans, so I couldn't even imagine what they might do to us. The image of mutilation that flashed into my mind terrified me.


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[Assistant] Randy and Gary came back around the nose to Hilo. I wasn't sure what they were doing, but they assumed, but I assumed they were looking for an area large enough to land an aircraft and get us out of there. They were calm and deliberate, talking to each other like a couple of surveyors planning a new parking lot, but I knew they were frustrated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They had four badly injured men on their hands and it was impossible to move even a short distance.


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[Assistant] So there's a little calm almost before the storm at this juncture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You say from the other side of the tin wall to my right, I heard a Somali, I heard Somali voices. It sounded like they were trying to get at us, but I didn't think, you know, but I didn't think it over for more than a second. My MP5 was set on single shot mode and I put it to use, firing four quick rounds right through the wall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't hear the voices anymore. When I stopped shooting, Randy and Gary looked at me as if surprised that a badly injured chopper pilot might actually be useful in a firefight. They didn't speak, but they moved around to the front of the helo again until they were out of sight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now things start to build and you know, you detail this in the book, you start hearing more AK fire. On top of the AK fire you also hear double taps from Randy and Gary as they're engaging these enemy fighters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you're firing through the wall, you got, your gun starts jamming from time to time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You actually emptied your first magazine, uhm, get your other magazine in. You firing at these people that are approaching you, approaching the helicopter.


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[Assistant] You talk about your weapon, the thing was stressing me out. It had fired just fine at the range, but it was clear the damn gun needed a good cleaning. I couldn't claim that I had had time for some basic, that I hadn't had time for some basic maintenance. And I could hear the ghostly echoes of so many drill instructors, keep your goddamn weapon clean. MP5s are like, so reliable too.


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[Assistant] Uh, you say at first I'd been happy just to survive the crash, then I accepted that I'd fight to the death.


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[Assistant] Then swelled with elation at that promise of rescue. Now we were taking heavy fire. We'd almost been overrun and they were throwing god damn grenades in here. I was dripping with sweat, pain, half paralyzed and out of ammo. The stench spilled, the stench of spilled jet fuel and gun smoke and rotting garbage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would be my only escorts to my death. Randy and Gary were out there somewhere on the other side of the chopper desperately trying to hold off the engines.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The burst of AK fire was starting to roll together like a thunderstorm. I was alone. It was turning into the freaking Alamo. Damn, I'm hit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was Gary's voice from the other side of the chopper. A Somali bullet had found him, yet he wasn't so much as what he said, but how he had said it. He sounded almost irritated, like this was just going to make things harder for him. It wasn't a scream or a plea, just a statement of fact like someone who'd nicked himself with a vegetable knife.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At that point, I'm sure he realized how desperate our situation had become. No one was coming for us.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, I mean, because of your sort of awareness of the whole situation,


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[Assistant] You had some thought in your mind that, hey, look, I mean, we crashed, the, the, the Kazavac bird will be in here soon, the ground force will be, someone will be, we'll, we'll be okay, we just gotta hold him off for a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, just in case anyone's wondering, a tank can go through that area with absolutely no factor whatsoever. I mean this is just small arms and RPGs, that's no factor at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Only minutes before Randy and Gary had jumped from a hovering helicopter rescue us. They'd fought their way through a maze of paths and shanties driving off a seamless, seemingly countless Somali gunman. They'd already done more than any two men could be expected to do. They'd put their own lives on the line to try and help their fellow American soldiers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gary Gordon died on the other side of that helicopter. I don't know exactly when and I don't know exactly how, but I never saw or heard him again. He died before I even learned his name.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Randy Schuchart came back around the cockpit striding toward me and showing little more than professional concern in his expression. They're throwing grenades in here, I told him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he didn't seem too worried about that. He was focused on our critical shortage of ammo. And he looked at my now useless MP5. Are there any other weapons in the aircraft? He asked. My crew chiefs keep their M16s in between the seats.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He went off to the helicopter without a word, climbed in and started digging around. Moments later he returned carrying the longer M16 and a Kar-15, the short-barreled submachine gun I had seen in Gary's hands. He handed me the smaller weapon, and for some reason it felt much better in my grip than my own MP5. He held up a PRC-112 survival radio.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What channel's the fire net on? It was odd. He didn't even have to shout. There was gunfire echoing from the far side of the aircraft, but in hesitant ones and twos. Channel Bravo, I replied.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Randy made a call on the fire support net, which gave him a direct line to the little bird guns and fire support officer. A little bird was flying high over our position.


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[Assistant] A reaction force is en route. Came the return call from one of the helicopters. The voice sounded familiar.


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[Assistant] I was sure it was one of the little bird pilots named Chris.


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[Assistant] Now that was encouraging. All we had to do was hold out a little bit longer. We needed help, but it was on the way.


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[Assistant] We just gotta keep them from overrunning us. We gotta hang in there just a little bit more.


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[Assistant] Randy probably knew right then and there that a little while more would not be soon enough. He squinted out the radio, stuffed it into his combat harness, hefted his weapon, and moved off around the nose of the helicopter. He left without saying another word.


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[Assistant] Master Sergeant Gordon, Gary Gordon, uhm, you know.


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[Assistant] For his actions that day. And also Sergeant First Class Shoe Guard.


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[Assistant] And both those guys, you know, when you read their, their citations, uhm, they requested multiple times to be able to go in to your position and try and help the situation that was on the ground. Uhm, they got denied, they got denied, and finally they got permission to go in and do whatever they could.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I, and, you know, I can, you know, we already talked about what things look like from the air. And you can only imagine, uhm,


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[Assistant] You know, actually, that these guys knew exactly what they were getting into. They knew the situation they were going into. They knew the risks that they were taking. They knew that no one was gonna be able to get in there besides them. They had much better situational awareness than you did because they were up there watching it. And yet,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You say suddenly it grew very, very quiet up until this point.


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[Assistant] There had been quite a bit of gunfire ebbing and flowing in volume. Some from us and some from them, but for some reason it all stopped for a few moments. Maybe they've given up, I told myself.


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[Assistant] I could hear my own lungs rasping at the air like sandpaper on plywood. Maybe the reaction force is coming and driving them away. I had no idea if this might be true, but my fantasy was encouraging. My mind worked hard to suppress the rising panic, but my thoughts weren't remotely clear or focused. I couldn't move. I couldn't hide. I couldn't make myself invisible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My body jerked and clenched, and I clenched my fist as a huge volume of gunfire suddenly shattered the silence. It came from the far side of the chopper and it rolled in like a hurricane of the worst sounds that Satan could conjure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Vollies of AK-47 fire hammered at our helpless bird, echoing off the clustered shanties, the heavy rounds, piercing the chopper steel skin and ricocheting everywhere.


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[Assistant] The only thing armored on that blackhawk were the seats and I watched helpless and horrified as it was punctured over and over again and it bucked like a downed elephant under a hail of poacher fire.


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[Assistant] Flying bullets plucked shorn metal and glass into the air and kicked up clots of dirt all around me. It went on for maybe an entire minute, a short span of time that stretched into an agonizing eternity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I couldn't see anything through the hulk of the smash chopper, so I can't say for sure, but Randy Schuchart was probably the only American left fighting over there alone against a countless number of enemies. He couldn't fight them all. It was only a matter of time before he went down. And when Randy finally fell, the shooting stopped.


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[Assistant] The last volleys of gunfire echoed off the sparse trees.


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[Assistant] Then the most terrifying minutes of my entire life began. I doubt there is a more horrific thing one could experience. I still lie in bed at night and feel the flood of suffocating anxiety. Time seemed to stand absolutely still. My skin crawled and every vein in my body throbbed with terror.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What did they really do to those Nigerians? I couldn't move. I could barely breathe. How much pain can a man endure before his mind shuts down and retreats into the sanctuary of unconsciousness? I knew they were going to kill me. I just didn't know how. Death was on its way. I could hear it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was the sound of approaching death just overwhelmingly terrifying and I knew that as soon as they came across the nose of that helicopter and saw me they were going to chop me to pieces.


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[Assistant] That's what they had done to the Nigerians. That's what they did to everybody. We had heard eyewitness accounts of them playing soccer with the skulls of their enemies.


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[Assistant] The howling racket of the mob's rage grew louder and louder, and I knew there was absolutely nothing I could do to save myself.


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[Assistant] Yeah, the thing that you're talking about with Nigerians, they had overrun a position and just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just murdered and butchered these Nigerians.


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[Assistant] I could think of no other course of action. I put the empty weapon across my chest, placed my hands, my open hands on top of it and stared up at the hazy blue sky. In seconds, the Somalis would come for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not an organized military enemy, but a mob of enraged civilians and militia with only one thing on their minds. Vengeance.


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[Assistant] A few clouds drifted by overhead, there were no helicopters in sight. I heard the rising, victorious cries as the Somalis swarmed around Super64, the poundings of hundreds of fists against her battered hide, a rattle-like swarm of feeding locusts.


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[Assistant] I did not sob, I did not pray, no tears coursed down my cheeks. For me, in that one frozen moment in time, all that I could do was wait for their arrival. My Joey will never know his father.


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[Assistant] So surprisingly, when they get to you, uhm,


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[Assistant] Uh, you say I can't remember how many times they struck or clubbed me. But it was many, many times. A snarling face bent in and a man ripped the green badge noose from cord from around my neck. That badge gave me access to Task Force Ranger compound and taped to the back of it was my military identification.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My metal dog tags went with it, and as soon as he saw the green badge in his hand, he stuck it in my face.


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[Assistant] His scream curled my blood, but it shocked me even more that this man could know so much about our security and our procedures. There was nothing on that green badge but a number. I wondered how many of these were now hanging around the necks of our enemies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I didn't wonder for long because two men began to work on my boots.


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[Assistant] For a second the sun haloed around the object and then he swung it down on me like a club. It smashed into my face, breaking my right eye socket and cheekbone.


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[Assistant] For many years I have held my peace for the sake of the survivors of the men who were killed.


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[Assistant] Not refuting the kink claim that I was struck with the butt of a rifle.


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[Assistant] But the truth is long overdue. That object was not a rifle. It was soft and very heavy. It was the severed arms of one of my comrades.


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[Assistant] I did not cry out or try to defend myself. My assailant was poised for another blow and obviously preparing to beat me to death, but I stared into his eyes with such hatred and defiance and disgust that he froze, backed away, and dropped his club.


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[Assistant] Someone fired a shot in the air. It didn't exactly bring things under control, but it must have stilled the bloodlust that was surging through the savage crowd.


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[Assistant] Ground hard against each other as they stretch me out like a prisoner on the rack my broken femur cleaved into the back of my leg.


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[Assistant] The sharp bone puncturing right out through my skin.


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[Assistant] The human mind has some defensive talents that only the dying or near dead can relay. And mine took me to a place high above my tortured form.


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[Assistant] I look down on myself and the surging horde watching it all in perfect detail.


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[Assistant] The sea of howling triumphant inhumanity and those thousands of hands passing me aloft like a bloody sacrifice to their unholy gods.


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[Assistant] For those brief moments pain was swept away, and then so was I.


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[Assistant] What's weird about this is you think about it, take a step back, like the proximity of everything that's happening, the fact that the airfield's a mile away, the fact that you are flying around at whatever, 4,000 feet in complete safety, two minutes later, or 30 seconds later you're over the target, two minutes later you're shot down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is all just, and it's all happening in this compressed time and compressed space.


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[Assistant] And despite the fact that there's tanks nearby, there's troops nearby, you're, you end up completely by yourself.


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[Assistant] That you were gonna survive this, or was it just, eh, just, who, who, when, when did they start to rip me apart?


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[Assistant] Uhm, so they eventually get you, they take you, and put you in a closed space of some kind, you can't really see what's going on because, you know, you've got the, the uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once you get, once you, sort of, you're, you're into this closed space, you kinda, you know, you say this in the book here, those first few minutes of capture critical don't piss off your captors. So you went into, like, the seer mode. Instinctively.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is surprising. It's a little bit surprising, cause you hope it works, but you know, when you're in seer school, it works. But when you're dealing with a freakin' crazed mob of Somalis, I mean, I'm surprised. You know, I'm surprised. I, even reading it, you know, I just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess I keep referring back to the fact like, you just knew you were gonna die. Cause if I was in that situation, I'd be like, I'm 100% there's no way I'm getting out of this. Not against a thousand


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Crazed mob. Like, it's not, you're not gonna get out of that. It's a freakin' miracle. Uhm, so you get into this room, they, they're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're arguing about you, they're yelling at each other, like you can see there's some kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It seems to start to take some kind of shape, right? It starts to take some kind of shape like they have another purpose for you. Uhm, they end up...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean I guess once you get away from the mob, you must have felt a little bit better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another guy comes in eventually, and again, look, by the book, I'm fast-forwarding through a bunch of detail that's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's fascinating to read and it gives a lot of the granular detail of what's going on. Eventually you get a guy that comes in that's a little less aggressive, not as angry and offers you some water. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're starting to see a little bit of, you know, maybe there's a little bit of light, a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.


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[Assistant] I had been a casual Catholic before, but I would become a faithful servant forever if I could just have three more minutes of protection until I was on board a night stalker helo and we were all flying off to freedom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unfortunately that was just another firefight going on out there.


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[Assistant] And you'd been shot where you got shot in the arm? I did, yep. It was superficial. Superficial.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, all the shooting is going on, I mean even when they were shooting up your bird that was on the ground, like it's a miracle you didn't get shot just by stray rounds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, finally you meet this guy, this guy comes in, his name is, he says my name is Mohamed Gate. He offers you a smoke. Now what's the deal with Mohamed Gate?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, fast forward a little bit, you end up, you know, you, you, it gets dark, you go to sleep, you wake up, uhm, and, and you start going into your, your first kind of day, uhm, of captivity here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He says, how are you ranger? I was not a ranger, but I didn't bother to correct him. I formed the recognizable symbol for okay with my fingers. Your friends, he began and then paused like a surgeon emerging from the operating room with bad news. You are the only one. I waited for the rest of it hoping that he meant I was the only one captured.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gate came up with a pack of cigarettes and offered me one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I heard the voice of one of my instructors from Sears School. Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape. You don't have to be subservient to your captors, but you do, but you do have to be cordial. Politeness is a tactic, not a surrender.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No thank you, were the first words of my day. And, and he goes on to say, I'm sorry, but it's only you. Your friends are not living. We thought maybe one alive under your helicopter had run away by night, but that is not true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he continued, many Somalis very angry with the UN and Americans. Many, many Somalis die in this fighting. Our women, they are the most angry. They are also the most cruel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A Somali woman must take her revenge upon a person who kills her son or husband. She must take something from the guilty person. There's no trial, no jury. This is justice in our world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the wide fringe of hair surrounding his bald head looked freshly cut. His colorful short sleeve shirt spotted pastel palm fronds and his beige trousers were crisp and clean. He reminded me of a Miami beach tourist. He seemed well educated and his mannered English was delivered in soft tones.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My name is Mr. Abdi. Is that right? Abdi? Abdi. Abdi. My name is Mr. Abdi. And yours? It was clear that this man held some kind of higher position. Well above the tactical lever level. It was time for me to give up one of the big four. Name, rank, service number and date of birth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Durant. Michael J. Durant. Is there anything you need, Mr. Durant? I need a doctor. Yes, I can see that. Abdi said. The Somalis surrounding him seem to be listening very carefully, trying to understand his nearly whispered English.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And is there anything else? I need to be set free. Of course he nodded as if expecting me to say that very thing. We will provide you with medical attention and I will make sure you are treated as well as possible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was, uh, when they show up with a video camera and you kind of talk about in the book, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your, your knowledge and recollection of those type of situations occurring in Vietnam, in the Gulf War, in Iraq. And you kind of know it's coming. That you're gonna get, you're gonna get this, uh, propaganda opportunity for them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna go to the book here. There was a man with a video camera on his shoulder and two more with tripods, batteries, and floodlights. Why you come to Somalia? Why you kill innocent? Will you answer these questions?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In those next few moments, I would utter responses that would change the rest of my life.


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[Assistant] I'm a soldier, I said in flat, expressionless tone. I do as I'm told.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And again, that's kind of like a standard seer answer. Hey, I'm just doing what I'm told. Why you kill innocent people?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I glanced at my interrogator then back at the camera so that at least someone out there could see I was responding against my will. Innocent people being killed is not good, I said.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Someone snapped his fingers. They turned the camera off and shut down the lights. It was over. They had what they wanted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I lay there reviewing every second of it in my mind and decided that I'd done alright. The only thing that video accomplished was to tell the world that the Somalis had an American in captivity. I didn't second guess my decision to answer and I believe then as I do now, it was the right thing to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was that, was that, you know, they're trying to get you to say the best they could get out of you is innocent people being killed is not good. That's like the best propaganda they could get out of you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you have a great sentence. I won't read it, but as they started interrogating you, you started using, you know, English, like big words, you know, multi-syllabic words that they just couldn't understand. It's, it's a freaking classic sentence. Uh, that's the kind of thing that you learn in, you know, in Sears school. Hey, talk to them in a language that's elevated above what they actually know. So, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You end up with that. Again, it's kind of crazy that I was sitting there watching that as a young seal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, clenching my fist saying how can we, how can I help, how, what can I do?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you end up in another, you get transported again, they take you to another spot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you see I looked around at my new digs, now flooded with the early daylight, cause this is now several days in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The door was closed to fix the cheap lock like the one in my previous cell. When the window shutters were open, I could see another building not three feet away. There were no birds chirping and I could hear more street traffic. I concluded we had moved to a more densely populated part of the city. Now you got another guy that is in the scene now, Farimbi. Am I saying that right? Farimbi? What's the deal with this guy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They bring you some MREs. They start bringing you some water. At this point you must be thinking like, okay, I have a decent chance. They're trying to take care of me. They got the doctor trying to give me guidance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here we get another character rolls in. And again, get the book because you get to get a better introduction. I'm just kind of hitting the wave tops of these things. General of Deeds, Minister of Eternal Affairs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He tells you, uh, your face has already been televised around the world. He continued almost with pride. Everyone knows that you are a prisoner. Inshallah, you will see your family again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Perhaps you would like a radio. Yes, I nodded graciously. A radio would be fantastic. So is that your first recognition? Did you start to get a feeling for the fact that everybody knows what's going on here?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've got a section in here that I think is just good to read because it's good lessons learned for life. You say it was my fourth day as a prisoner of war in Somalia. I knew I couldn't deal with captivity in terms of years, but I had to mentally prepare myself for a long haul.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So as I stared at this crumbling ceiling of hotel nowhere and listened to the furious buzzing of the black flies, I told myself that I would survive just one day at a time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would not imagine my captivity as years of tortured waiting because if I really believe that I would probably die.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My mind could not accept being in prison for that long and those kind of things, those kind of thoughts would break me. Like any major challenge in life, you have to take it in bits and pieces. You don't try and tackle the whole thing at once.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remembered how I reacted at the crash site when it was overrun and I had focused on surviving for just five minutes and then making it through the next five.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so as day four dawned and I ventured further into the black tunnel of captivity, I needed a limited point of reference or that darkness would just overwhelm me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You just need to make it to tomorrow, I told myself. If you wake up tomorrow, you'll figure out how to survive another tomorrow. Today you've got to figure out how to survive today.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's the, that's the mode you're going into. Good lesson for freaking life in general.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, they're, they're giving a report. Before you get to the radio request, they're giving reports of what's going on. This is sort of your first indication.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you hear this report on BBC on Sunday, October 3rd around 4pm. Quick, U.S. Quick Reaction Force detained 24 suspected ID'd militant members in a search and seizure operation. We believe several key militia members were among them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three of the 24 detainees died of wounds received during the operation. One detainee is being treated. Key militia members we have detained were not among those who died or wounded.


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[Assistant] As the, and then he goes into this, as the operation was in progress, two US Army Black Hawk helicopters were lost due to ground fire. During this time, the troops evacuating the detainees came under fire and returned fire. About 70 Rangers surrounded one downed helicopter at dusk. They formed a perimeter.


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[Assistant] To protect the wounded members of the crew while awaiting a medical evacuation and they too came under fire.


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[Assistant] A task force was organized consisting of two U.S. Army infantry companies, 24 Malaysian armored personnel carriers, four Pakistani tanks, two Pakistani armored personnel carriers, a Ranger platoon, and a company of armored Humvees. The task force reached the downed aircraft at 2.30 Monday morning and evacuated the soldiers.


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[Assistant] And then the report continues. Regrettably, there were a number of U.S. casualties in these engagements as the Pentagon has already released five U.S. soldiers have died. In addition, a number have been wounded.


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[Assistant] It wasn't good news. The major's tone was cautious and I knew that his announcement of casualty figures was preliminary. I had no doubt that the numbers of our dead and wounded would increase.


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[Assistant] So you're hearing all these reports of, of what had unfolded. Um, and you're, like you said earlier, you're an eternal optimist and to you, you hear these reports and you're painting them in the best possible light. Uh, yeah.


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[Assistant] What about the Blackhoff flying overhead with plane ACDC? What was that all about?


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[Assistant] Uhm, you end up getting that Red Cross visit.


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[Assistant] This is like, uh, how do you describe? Incredible Angel of Mercy is what you see this woman as. Susanna Hofstetter.


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[Assistant] And she actually gives you a chance to write a letter to your family. Uhm.


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[Assistant] You say this, I decided to keep it personally and mostly informative so that at least my family would worry less.


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[Assistant] This is what I wrote. Dear Lori and Joey, I know you must be worried about how I am doing. They are treating me well. The Somali doctor comes everyday and cleans my injuries. The people who are taking care of me are also treating me well.


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[Assistant] You stay positive and be strong and give Joey more hugs and kisses for his dad that misses him so.


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[Assistant] I broke my leg, compound fracture, right femur, and injured my back in the crash. I think my nose is broken but it does not hurt. I have a superficial gunshot wound in my left arm.


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[Assistant] The leg and back are the only real problems, but as I said, the medical care has been very good. I hope to see you soon and I pray for the others who are missing. Ray, Bill, Tommy, and anyone else. I love you.


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[Assistant] I signed with my full signature Michael Durant, a particular scribble that would assure anyone reading the letter that I had in fact written it.


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[Assistant] When I was done, I was in tears to think that this document would soon be in the hands of my family was just overwhelming.


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[Assistant] Again. You can't make this stuff up. Yea, it's crazy to even think about. Uhm, you know, you get thunderstruck.


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[Assistant] They play Rooster by Alice in Change, which again, when I was on my first deployment overseas, you know, that Alice in Change.


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[Assistant] On my seventh day as prisoner of war, I found religion. It's often been said that there are no atheists in foxholes, meaning that even a non-believer will begin to pray when faced with his own mortality. But I had never been given


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'd never been a Catholic of convenience, who only prayed when times were tough. Admittedly, as a boy, I attended church regularly with my family. While I was an adult and full-time army helicopter pilot, I allowed that tradition to lapse.


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[Assistant] Yet my absence from the pews hadn't broken my bond with the Lord. At times I would offer my Sunday prayers from the cockpit or say a silent grace over an MRE between missions or ask a chaplain for a quick blessing as I ran to my helo.


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[Assistant] It didn't require the threat of death for me to recall the sacraments. So when I say I found religion I meant it literally. So in this red box


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[Assistant] Cross, you end up getting a box from the Red Cross. They got a razor and they got toothbrush and toothpaste and a writing tablet and pens. They, a fresh roll of toilet paper. Which...


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[Assistant] Playing cards and then, uh, you say the very last item was a U.S. Army Bible. About the size of a small paperback. It's cover and binding in desert camouflage colors. It was then that I realized some of these items have come directly from Task Force Ranger.


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[Assistant] Then you start taking notes inside, you start taking notes inside the, you know, the blank spaces inside the Bible. You still have that? I do. I should have brought it.


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[Assistant] And again, we talk about how much of this story is crazy, this part. My wife spoke to me at dawn.


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[Assistant] At night, gathered force the minute I opened my eyes. I lay there with my eyes closed, the radio tight to my ear, hardly taking in the voice of AFN's female DJ until she started talking about me.


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[Assistant] And as I listened, the emotions flowed through my veins and futtered in my chest.


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[Assistant] And she said, I'm making this statement in hopes that it will reach my husband. I want him to know that Joey and I are doing well. I received your letter from the Red Cross Mike. I was very happy to hear that you are okay and that you are being treated well. Clay and the rest of the family are taking great care of us. Everyone is praying for you. I know you can hear my prayers and the prayers of your brothers.


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[Assistant] She took a breath. My own breathing was quick and shallow. My ears burning as I listened with every pore. Everything with the new house is moving along fine. We'll be living in our dream home soon.


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[Assistant] I hope they're taking care of you and feeding you right. I'll have a big pizza waiting for you soon. Joey is waiting for you to get back before he starts walking. He wants his father to see his first steps. Take care of yourself. Don't worry about us. We'll be fine. And remember babe, as you've always told me, NSDQ, night stalkers don't quit.


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[Assistant] Take care of yourself. I love you very much with all my heart.


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[Assistant] The DJ cut back when Lori was done, but compared to my wife's voice, her drone sounded cold and lifeless.


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[Assistant] You start getting word that the, uh, former American ambassador to Somalia, Robert Oakley, had showed up to sort of start moving this thing forward.


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[Assistant] This is, this is good to read. Oakley made his position very clear. There would be no deals. There would be no exchange of prisoners. Either a deed would release me immediately and unconditionally or rescue attempt would be made. He framed the rest of his message as speculation rather than a threat. I imagine that such a raid will come sooner rather than later, he said.


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[Assistant] A large portion of your city will no doubt be destroyed, and perhaps Mr. Durant along with it.


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[Assistant] But the US is not going to sit idly by and let the clock tick any longer.


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[Assistant] And that's, you know, this is the type of threat that they understood, they believed, they believed that he would back it up, and it worked.


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[Assistant] Fast forward a little bit, uhm, uhm, Minister Abdi, I'm saying that wrong aren't I? Abdi. Abdi, sorry.


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[Assistant] Uh, he comes in. I have some good news for you, Mr. Durant. He said, I'm Ali, or is Mr. Minister, I said. He smiled slightly at that. But actually, I was all nerve endings. I could feel them twitching under my skin. The elders of the Somali National Alliance have convened. He folded his hands behind his back. They have made a decision. I did not say anything.


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[Assistant] I just watched him waiting. You'll go home tomorrow, Mr. Durant. Unconditionally.


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[Assistant] Next day, October 14th. Today is the day. That was the entry I wrote in my Bible that morning. So,


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[Assistant] That's it. You find out that you're going home. Uhm, it's.


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[Assistant] It's a little bit anti-climactic because it's almost surprised. It surprised the guards when they, when they found you.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you know, you talk about that. They load you in a van as they s- th- th- you were too big to fit in the van and close the doors. So they just leave the doors open and then they start pulling away and you start flying out the back and they grab hold of you as you're falling. I mean, it's, yeah, like you said, it's keystone cops.


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[Assistant] Eventually you show up there at a task force ranger or at the compound, um, and this, this Jag.


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[Assistant] This Jag is looking at you. And he looked, stood there, looked at me for a moment, and shocked, and then yelled, Holy Mother of God, it's Mike Durant, Medic.


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[Assistant] Then all hell broke loose. There was an army field hospital right there at the UN compound. Medics and nurses and doctors charged across the tarmac as UN soldiers pulled me out of the van. A gurney appeared and they set me on the litter.


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[Assistant] As faces crowded around me, everyone shouting and barking orders at once. People were yelling for instruments and medical equipment, and it was like a scene out of ER as they rushed me toward the large green tents of the hospital. I looked around, but Farimbi was nowhere in sight.


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[Assistant] He'd faded away into the crowd, and I left his world, much in the way I'd come into it, carried aloft and engulfed by a mob.


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[Assistant] If you, uh, you know, you talked earlier about finding out this is, this is when you find out about, found out about Cliff and Donovan, uhm, obviously just freaking


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[Assistant] Just, just to kind of close out the book here again, we've skimmed the wave tops of this and so many good, just incredible poignant points in it. You say this just to, just to kind of finish it out. There was a C 141 waiting to take me to Germany.


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[Assistant] And Dan Gelata and Stan Wood, Mark Bergamo. Am I saying that right? Bergamo. Bergamo. And Trey Williams lifted my litter.


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[Assistant] And we walked toward the ramp of the waiting transport. Every man in the task force was holding some kind of a cup. Every cup had a shot of whiskey in it.


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[Assistant] The men spoke to me in murmurs as I passed. They wished me well and offered me thumbs up. When we reached the cargo ramp of the jet, my friends held me there so I could look out over this honor guard of my brothers, this company of heroes.


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[Assistant] General Garrison stepped up onto the ramp. He handed me a shot glass of whiskey while he raised his own and all the men raised theirs to the ice blue African sky. To our fallen comrades, his voice echoed. We shall never forget them. To our fallen comrades, 400 said in unison. We downed our shots.


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[Assistant] As from a speaker somewhere came a recording of God Bless America. When the men joined in to sing it, their voices were like thunder and I could feel the earth tremble.


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[Assistant] It carried me onto the plane. At last I was really going home. Soon I would inhale the sweet scents of America. Soon I would be holding my son. Yet so much had happened. So many of the best pieces of my life had been torn away that I felt empty and hollow.


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[Assistant] As the cargo ramp closed, I looked at my hands. The only things I had left were that coveted night stalker beret and the Bible. And something I had always taken for granted before. My freedom.


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[Assistant] So you, you go into some of this in the book as well, uh, what happens after that?


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[Assistant] Uh, you know, there's a, there's a, that's a whole nother, there's a whole nother dynamic that takes place. You know, you're getting back to America, you gotta get surgeries, you're getting, I mean,


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[Assistant] You had to be one of the most popular human beings in the world at that point. Certainly amongst military personnel and government people and, you know, they, some of them wanna get their picture taken with you so they can post or whatever, write about it or have it in the newspaper or whatever you do back in the 90s. I guess you don't post it.


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[Assistant] Lined it up and then your goal at that point came, became to get back in the seat, get back and become, become a fully qualified pilot again for, for the Nightstalkers. How long did that take?


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[Assistant] And did you like take a, what was your rank or what were you doing? Did you take like a platoon and go?


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[Assistant] How does that impact your, your life, your world? Or was that, was the, was the biggest, uh, let's say flip on the publicity radar when you got home?


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's so, it's very difficult. Uhm, you know, I got a, a friend of mine that was in SOG in Vietnam. His name is John Stryker-Meier and he has his own podcast that he does now called the SOGcast and he just, just has guys from SOG on, from Vietnam and


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[Assistant] Those guys, like two of those guys that were on the same mission will tell different, different circumstances of how they saw it go down and they're not.


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[Assistant] Neither one of them's wrong. They just saw it from a different perspective and or remembered a different way. So I can't even imagine trying to piece together the perspective of however many guys were on the ground in the battle that day and have it


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[Assistant] Have every person be satisfied with what was said. That's a very tall task. And you know what? I'm not saying that's wrong. I'm saying...


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[Assistant] And could report what exactly what he saw and you might think it was the worst story ever and I might think it's great. And, and we would both be right because, you know, he could miss. So that's a very big challenge. But yeah, I mean, obviously all of us in the special operations community read that book.


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[Assistant] I mean, I thought it was a great book, but again, I wasn't there.


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[Assistant] That does a good job of conveying a lot of the chaos, a lot of the mayhem, a lot of the pressure that guys are under. So, uh, I don't know what you thought of that movie.


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[Assistant] Right, I was about to ask you that. So your book came out in 2003. Right. So you must have started writing that after those, those bookers. Was it the movie or the book that made you write it? It was the movie.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's impossible to write a book, and trust me, I've written millennia. It's impossible to write a book and, and, and say, well, you know,


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[Assistant] I'm doing this, uh, I'm, I'm humble and I'm doing this cause you're writing, no matter what you're writing a book, it's about you. And so there's that, there's that hypocrisy of doing that. And I certainly like had, you know, my gut in knots because


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[Assistant] Like you, when I joined, like you didn't talk about being in the SEAL teams, for damn sure. Uh, one of, one of my admiral friends helped me out get through that and, you know, he said, hey, we're supposed to be quiet professionals.


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[Assistant] But that doesn't mean silent professionals. And the stories and lessons learned need to be carried on. And you're doing a good job of that. And I was very thankful to hear that. Uhm, and I think that's accurate.


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[Assistant] What year did you, what year did you, or what, what time, cause you retired in 2001, right? Correct.


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[Assistant] So, okay, well you know where I'm going with that. So September 11th comes and you're sitting on the bench.


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[Assistant] Called, just called the Night Stalkers, which is more of a historical account of the Night Stalkers.


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[Assistant] And we don't have, we don't have toys anywhere close to as big as your toys or as expensive as your toys. We always joke about the fact that like our budget is so small compared to, you know, the aviation community because of freaking Blackhawk. What does a Blackhawk cost?


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[Assistant] HueyPilot from Vietnam on and he was talking about, you know, those guys were just flying the hot LZ's like it wasn't like without a second thought they were rolling in there and he said something like, well, you know, here, here I was, you know, 18 years old and flying in and I got a,


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[Assistant] And I said, you know, and we started talking, I said, is that why it's more cautious with the blackhawks? Cause there's so much more expensive. He goes, yeah, I guess they must be more careful. Those things must cost like $250,000. I didn't, I, I knew it was more than that.


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[Assistant] I said, I think it's quite a bit more than that, sir. He said, oh, really? How much? Over a million? I forget the conversation, but it was funny. But yeah, for, I mean, a normal, I ended up looking up a normal Blackhawk, not even a special spec ops one is like 20 million, 24 million. So yeah, the prices went up a bit and, and you actually,


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[Assistant] Once you got done, you know, working, uh, with that first company, you founded your own company.


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[Assistant] That's the fun stuff. Yeah. So here you are. How many, how many years you end up doing in the army?


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[Assistant] 22. So you did 22 years in the army. You are a damn POW. You, you flew the best, you know, helicopters for the best unit in the world. As far as aviation goes, you end up retiring from that. You work in the civilian sector for a while. You build this business up to a significant business.


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[Assistant] What was the, uh, how, how did this start off in your brain, but also how did it start off? What do you do? Do you, uh, do you call 1-800-I-wanna-run-for-senate? Like how does, how does that work?


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[Assistant] Well yeaah, I definitely think you're nuts. You know, when you were talking about the meeting these politicians, some of them that are up there, we did a...


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[Assistant] Probably too long of a podcast. I did a series of like five or six podcasts about this book that I've read called The Psychology of Military Incompetence. And it's written by a guy that was a psychologist, but he was also a guy that served in World War II. The book was published in maybe 1970.


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[Assistant] One of the reasons why, and he, he does the same thing that you just did, which is not, he's not talking about everybody, he points that out over and over again in the book, there's plenty of military personnel that are awesome, that are great leaders, they're outstanding, but,


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[Assistant] There are also people that are in the military that are horrible leaders and they're toxic leaders and one of the key components that he talks about is the authoritarian mindset. So,


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[Assistant] What the problem is with the military is it can attract people. If I'm a, if I have an authoritarian mindset, authoritarian psychology, I want people to listen to me and I want things to be in order.


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[Assistant] So what better way to make that happen than to join the military, become an officer, people have to listen to me, and things will be in order.


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[Assistant] And, and then inside the military as we know, if I never go into combat, and all I have to do is keep the, keep the, the, the uniform squared away and keep my area clean, I'm gonna get promoted because I'm gonna run things like an authoritarian. Now I'm horrible in combat because I can't control everything and it drives me crazy and I freak out.


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[Assistant] It attracts that kind of person. And then, you know, just as you were talking about being in the government and being in a, uh, being in a position where you're in control of things.


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[Assistant] It can unfortunately attract the same kind of deranged authoritarians that want to go in there and control everything. And so I think that's common. I think we're seeing a lot of that right now. A lot of the government that is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Looking around going, oh wait, this is an opportunity for, for us, for me to become even more authoritarian about what's happening in the world. I can control more. We can mandate things. And...


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[Assistant] I think you're in a position where I think a lot of people are starting to push back against that and want to go through life and


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[Assistant] Well how did your wife feel about it? So she is obviously the first person I spoke to.


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[Assistant] Oh man. Uhm, so for people to support you in this, I know I looked at your, uh, you got MikeDurant.com. That's, that's where people can go. They can learn more about you. Uhm, you also are on all the various social media, which, were you on social media before?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is the world, right? This is the world right now. And people are, people are crazy. And they're not even crazy, they're just gonna say things to you to see if they can get you to respond one time or get some viral tweet or whatever. So.


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[Assistant] I look forward to watching you navigate this harder show. Uh, you're on Twitter, Mike Durant, AL. So Alabama, Mike Durant, AL. Instagram, same thing, Mike Durant, AL. Facebook, Mike Durant, AL. You have your own YouTube channel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go forward in this crazy place, which again, I think at some point you're at least going to think to yourself, maybe the joining Elon Musk with my ties on the beach would have been a better call.


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[Assistant] But, but to your point, listen, this country, you know, again, we've, now all of a sudden we're talking about, we're talking about


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[Assistant] Fighting Russia in Ukraine. That's that's that's discussions that are happening right now. Yeah, we've got the problems at the border We've got problems with our our unrest in the country. There's so many issues that


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[Assistant] I just, for you to be stepping up to this plate, uh, thank you. Thank you for stepping up. I know it's a terrible drag and uhm, but somebody's gotta do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. Awesome. Uh, Echo Charles. Yes sir. Do you have any questions?


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[Assistant] Got to stay on the path. Got to. In all forms. Mike, look, we covered, you know, again, the wave tops of your book, the wave tops of your life. Uhm, is there anything else, any other closing thoughts?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and there's so many lessons to learn and not only is it lessons to learn, but it's also capturing the history and the, and the stories of the service and sacrifice of all these people. So I think that's probably where general Brown was coming from, you know, looking at you, thinking about what you've been through. I mean, how,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't have, we don't have any other buddy that, we don't have anyone else that can tell that story. They don't exist. So for you to, for you to be able to put that word out, I'm sure General Brown was thinking, look, it's not just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not just people won't say anything, in 30 years, in 40 years, people are going to be so thankful that you wrote that book because now we have a document that can explain everything that you learned and explain the incredible sacrifices of, of the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The troops that served alongside with you and fought and sacrificed their lives for their team. And I think that's, not only is it, that needs to be done.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you know, I had a, I'm the same way, you know, losing my guys and it's just horrible. And you know, sometimes I think, well,


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[Assistant] How long does that last for? And I had a guy on the podcast named Colonel Tom Fife who was, he fought in World War II, Korea and Vietnam. And he received a Purple Heart in World War II, Korea and Vietnam.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we were on the podcast, we talked about World War II, we talked about Korea, we talked about Vietnam, and he was a battalion commander in Vietnam, you know, infantry battalion commander, and we were talking about their Op Tempo and the operations that they were doing, and I asked him about, you know, the casualties that he took in his battalion, and as I asked him that,


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[Assistant] I saw he, he almost immediately started getting choked up and emotional. And that's when I realized to myself, I thought to myself, Oh, I'm always going to feel like this. It's always going to be there. So like you said,


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[Assistant] I, you know, I don't think, you don't get over it. Probably not healthy to get over it, like how can you forget your friends, it's never gonna happen. Uhm, and I do think that writing about these things has helped me a ton, and talking about them has helped me a ton.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The act of writing, when you write something, you de facto detach from it. You know, you read the words that you wrote and you get a little separation and you can kind of process it more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I think the writing is therapeutic and does help move people forward and helps you process what you've been through in the most positive way that I can think of because then other people get to see or get to read and hear and understand more clearly what you've been through and also the sacrifices that were made.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, uh, it's good to have, you know, somebody that helped you out write it and kind of clarify some stuff, um, and add some words that, you know, you didn't learn when you were living in a trailer in New Hampshire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, people don't understand. You drive through Massachusetts and there's hockey rinks all over the place up there. They're playing their hockey, that's for sure. Uhm, well,


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[Assistant] Like I said, thank you, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for, for sharing your stories, sharing your lessons. Thank you for what you're doing right now to, to step up into the arena. That's a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be a U.S. Senator. That's a whole new battle. A whole new different type of battle. And thank you for doing it. And most important, thank you for your service and your sacrifice.


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[Assistant] For our great nation and finally and most important, we honor and salute the sacrifices of the brave men who fought alongside you.


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[Assistant] And who made the ultimate sacrifice for their brothers and for our country. Thanks for joining us. It's been my pleasure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Crazy for me as I sat there and was looking at him, you know, and I was always talking about the video that came out of him.


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[Assistant] And that was everywhere and I was in the SEAL teams in special operations was hearing all the rumors and of everything that was going on. And here I was watching him on TV. Was that 28 years ago?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now we're sitting here talking to each other. He lived. He went on with his career. He lived. He did everything that he did and now he's sitting in this room talking, sharing his story with us. That was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is very crazy. And then when you have all those names that overlap, you know, whether it's general Brown,


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[Assistant] Like, that's crazy, right? General Brown was his battalion commander, who's talking to him on the radio.


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[Assistant] Was an admiral's aide sitting on an aircraft with General Brown flying to some other country.


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[Assistant] Who was the guy that got rolled up in Panama with his wife. Yeaah, yeaah. I...


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[Assistant] Worked for that guy. He was my task unit commander when I was an E5 in the SEAL teams.


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[Assistant] That caused the invasion of Panama to take place, kind of. One of the primary causes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These characters that you hear, they're not characters, they're people. And I guess you're right, that's such a...


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[Assistant] What a crazy battle. The incredible, incredible battle. Incredible sacrifices made on that day. And yeaah. Makes us think of...


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[Assistant] So, I think that's probably one of the things that drives him to continue to wanna serve. So, we gotta continue, we all have to continue, continue to serve in whatever way possible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, I'll tell you what's impressive, he's in good shape.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably a good thing for us all to think about. If you want to maintain some sort of capability, probably a good idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I have not ever broke your lumbar. Yeah spine haven't crashed in a freaking in a in a Blackhawk helicopter in an out-of-control Blackhawk helicopter spinning to the earth Compressing my spawn spine breaking my femur haven't been dragged around by a mob of angry Somalis and beaten right


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mike Durant did. Mike Durant did, yeaah, for sure. He climbed, what'd he say, five 14ers this past summer? What does that mean? Sixty, fourteen thousand foot peaks. Oh dang. That's tall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was freaking poetic. I can't take credit. Continuity of that whole, just the way it landed in there. You know, it's impressive. Well thanks. Dust Storm, whatever, you're putting it down right on target every time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. Yeah, like cocaine. Yeah, maybe cocaine was for this or cocaine was for that. Morphine was this, morphine was for that. That's what they do. Like, I don't feel great today. Well, cool. Put you on morphine. Right on. That was a normal thing. Oh, by the way, and smoke these, these things over here. Suck on this smoke into your lungs, cause that'll help you too. They were legitimately doing that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they would tell pregnant women, hey, you know, you need to relax, go have a couple. They did that. My mom, my mom told me she was drinking gin and tonics like a boss, you know, when she was pregnant with me, which explains a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You wouldn't have known back in the day that when the doctor prescribed you cocaine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You wouldn't be suspect until you were freaking crackhead three weeks later, right? So it's the same thing with right now with the traditional poisonous energy drinks that a lot of people don't even know that they're poisonous yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're sitting there drinking them. They think they're actually good to go. They think that that's just a little bit of cocaine and they're gonna be fine. It's not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a lot of bit of cocaine, and it's addictive, and it's killing you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, we're not down with that. What we are down with is monk fruit. What we are down with is pasteurization. What we are down with is 95mg of clean caffeine. That's what we're down with. We're down with, we actually made something that's healthy for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, if you want some, get some. Discipline. Go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Immunity. Look out for that. 200%. Vitamin D3. Take that every day. I take it every day. I take one in the morning, one at night, by the way. Cold war. That's there. Got your back. That's like air support, right? It's flying overhead. It can lay down some, some thunder if needed. So you go on that, you get the cold war going, and then you're gonna say something about mulk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 28 ounce tomahawk steak. This is about as good as the world gets, right? You eat a 28 ounce tomahawk steak. By the way, I got some sitting in my freezer right now. They're getting ready to get crushed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, I will finish a 28 ounce tomahawk steak.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mentally. Mmhm. Physically. Spiritually. Spiritually, oh yeaah. And guess what I still want? A little mole-kitter. A little hitter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the items at Vitamin Shop and you can order any of it, all of it from JockoFuel.com. And if you subscribe, shipping's free.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, a little bit different. Maine, heavy. Yes sir. Minnesota, heavy. Yeah. Northern Michigan, heavy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Montana heavy. I'm talking heavy. Heavy hoodies that are suitable for all these cold scenarios. Uh, so originusa.com. And here's the deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We can't, because we gotta tell you something else. They're made in America. They're made in America by American human beings with, with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Materials that were also made in America and born in America and grown in America.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when you buy something from origin, you're not just getting a shirt. You're actually rebuilding America.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Collateral benefits when we buy something? Yeaah. Well what if the collateral benefit is your hurting America's economy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's not good. What if the collateral benefit is that you're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keeping a Uyghur in China in a slave labor camp. Is that good? No, that's not good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alls I'm saying is you should shop at originusa.com for freedom. For the cause of freedom around the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When people see me wear pants, they're always, well, when like my normal people, my local friends see me wear pants, they're like, oh, that's weird. I remember when my youngest daughter, like the first time she saw me with a pair of jeans on,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, this is a new shirt. That came from a trooper by the way. And you spell it S-H-U-R-T Locker.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool, uh, speaking of subscriptions, you can subscribe to this podcast on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher. Leave some reviews. Also, we have Jocko Unraveling. Daniel and I have been kicking out a couple of those recently. We're hitting some topics, some topics that are a little bit, let's say, controversial maybe? They're heavy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're definitely heavy. The Christmas Joy one just came out. About the, about total war in World War II, what that was all about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, if you want a little Christmas joy, check out the Jocko Unraveling. Sarcastic. Not a place for, not a place for joy. But if you want to know about history so we don't repeat it, or you want to find out what's going on in the world and how it relates to what happened in the past, check out Jocko Unraveling podcast with Darryl Cooper. Grounded podcast, warrior kid podcast. We also have Jocko Underground. JockoUnderground.com. It's our own free sanctuary. Free from tyranny.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So look, we don't control the platforms that are out there. We hope we don't ever have to abandon them. We hope we don't get.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Forced off of them, but we don't know what's gonna happen. So, we have to have a contingency. That contingency is jocowonderground.com. If you want to support our, our, our sanctuary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go to jockhondradar.com $8.18 a month to help support us in what we're doing there. We get you an additional podcast that's Q&A, going over some tangential but important topics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you can't afford it, that's alright. We still want you in the game. Email assistance at jocowinnerground.com. We have a YouTube channel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, uh, I made an album. Well, Echo recorded it. I guess I talked. Anyways, if you have maybe moments of weakness you want to overcome them, check out Psychological Warfare. It's available wherever you buy MP3s. We also have FlipsideCanvas.com, Dakota Meyers, making cool stuff that you can hang on your wall here in America. So that's freaking legit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then there's books. Obviously, uh, the book that we covered today in the company of heroes by Mike Durant. He also wrote the book, The Night Stalkers. So those are great reads. Check those out. Final spin. I wrote them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A fiction story. Uhm, it's available right now. Check it out. Final Spin. Leadership Strategy and Tactics. Field Manual. The Code. The Evaluation. The Protocols. Discipline Equals Freedom. Field Manual. Way of the Warrior Kid 1, 2, 3, and 4. Get that freaking book for all the kids you know. Get all those books for all the kids you know for Christmas. That's my recommendation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So please help me. Cause those books will help those kids. Also got Mikey and the Dragons. We have About Face by Colonel David Hackworth. I wrote the forward to the latest. A DISH.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership, which I wrote with my brother Leif Babin. We also have a leadership consultancy where leadership is the solution. Leadership is the solution.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And go to EchelonFront.com if you want to check out what we're doing there. We have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Obviously consultancy, we have live events, we have the muster, we have field training exercises, we have EF Battlefield, we have the Dallas Muster coming up March 24th and 25th. We also have an online training academy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Extreme Ownership Academy. This is where you can come, you can ask me questions, and look, it's about leadership for sure, but it's about taking ownership of your life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reading one book or listening to one podcast. Are you able to learn jujitsu by going one time to a class? Are you able to get in good shape by going to the gym one time? No, you need consistency. You need to review this stuff. That's why we made extreme ownership dot com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So go and check that out. And if you want to help service members active and retired, their families, Gold Star families, you can check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I just heard Joe Rogan talking about going into the hyperbaric chamber and how much he has benefited from it. One of the key things


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A month worth of sessions plus hotel plus living expenses while you're down there plus travel to get there to get veterans into these hyperbaric chambers for a month worth of treatment or 45 days worth of treatment and there's been incredible feedback from everybody that's done it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if you want to help with that, that's one of the many things that she does. If you want to help, or you want to donate, or you want to get involved, go to americasmightywarriors.org. And of course if you want more of my tedious talking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or you need more of Echo's questionable questions. You can find us on the interwebs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On Twitter, on the gram, and on Facebook. Echoes at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And of course, Mike Durant, running for the Senate in Alabama. If you want to support him, go to MikeDurant.com. Look at his social media. You can see it's going to be an interesting ride, right? He's just getting in the game in social media.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On Twitter, Mike Durant AL. Instagram, Mike Durant AL. Facebook, Mike Durant AL. And of course, on YouTube, Mike Durant for Senate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So once again, thanks to Mike Durant for coming on the podcast. Honored to have you here. Really incredible to meet someone in person that I've known about and actually watched from a distance as he went through this incredibly traumatic situation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I watched along with the rest of the nation and really the rest of the world. Honor to have you on here. Thank you so much for coming and thank you for your continued service to this day and to other military personnel out there, personnel out there in the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A solemn salute to the incredible special operations forces that served in Somalia and fought and died as heroes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And to our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service and all first responders, thank you for protecting our way of life here at home. And to everyone else out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 340 with Kerry Hilton and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Kerry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's so big that at first I thought our vehicle had been hit.


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[Assistant] My vision goes completely white and there's a ringing in my ears, a gentle whine as my brain reignites and starts working again. Sort of.


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[Assistant] It is the same feeling I had in the old days when Chuck Liddell used to hit me.


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[Assistant] Sure, I'm conscious, but I'm not quite right.


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[Assistant] My brain doesn't feel like it's processing at full speed. My vision slowly returns and white flecks of light frolic through my eyes as my situation comes back to me in a jolt. I realize we're okay, but immediately know we're totally fucked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The vehicle in front of me hit my roof. I don't know if it hit a pressure plate or what, but a two and a half ton armored vehicle just did a backflip 20 meters in the air, is completely shredded and missing everything from the front wheel forward, and is now sitting on top of my vehicle.


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[Assistant] Bullets from machine gun nests high above us start to hit the ground around us.


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[Assistant] I can hear rounds pinging off our vehicle. The RPG nests come seconds later. But luckily the assholes shooting them at me suck and they fly over our vehicle.


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[Assistant] The whole fight is right here in the front. The guys in the back are so far away that all they can do is listen to the gunfire. The pass is so narrow that you can barely fit two vehicles in the gap while they are able to hit us from every conceivable position and angle. There is no way to reinforce us.


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[Assistant] Wisely, like the grizzled combat veteran he is, the ODA Sergeant Major starts pushing all the units to the high ground to take the fight to them and get the guys out of the line of fire. That is great and all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it doesn't do jack shit for me. The lead three vehicles, one completely blown up, are stranded with nowhere to go while death rains down around us.


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[Assistant] I fucking know I'm about to die. I am not going to see my wife again. I am not going to see my kids again. I don't want it to end like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That right there is an excerpt from a book called Scars and Stripes, which is written by Green Beret, Special Forces Sniper, UFC fighter.


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[Assistant] And all around incredible human. Tim Kennedy. And it's an honor to have Tim with us here again. Think about five years after the first time, maybe even almost six times. Six years after the first time we did this.


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[Assistant] First one was episode 21, and he's here to talk about his book, his lessons learned, and his experiences.


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[Assistant] Welcome back man. What's up man? Thanks for coming by. Yeah, my pleasure. A lot of stuff going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I always think it's helpful to talk about, write about it, talk about it. Cause like you said, when you write it, when you write something down, like even from a historical perspective of like writing it down and checking with your teammates and being like, hey, how do you remember this? So you get the facts a little bit more straightened out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then just the understanding of what you went through and the understanding of the lessons learned when you write it down, it like clarifies it for you, you know, so.


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[Assistant] I, in reading the book, my answer, first of all, let me say this out of the gate, it's a freaking outstanding book, uhm, and I'm gonna read some of it today, but if you haven't already gotten this book, then order it immediately, uh, cause it's a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's an awesome read, and it's a wild ride.


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[Assistant] This is like, you know, people say, oh, you, if you, if you made this into a movie script or whatever, people wouldn't believe it. It's kind of like that. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's that, it's that freaking, your life has been that wild. It has been that wild.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah. Where you can't, eventually you have to throw your clothes away. Yeaah. Cause they reek and nothing gets rid of the smell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I don't know you that well, but I've known you for a long time and I've, you know, obviously when you were fighting, I was always watching you and stoked that you were doing it. And you know those, when you'd be fighting for the championship and I'd be watching going, come on man, come on. And then you would, but you know what I'd do? I'd like turn off the TV and go back to work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'd have to do, you know, suffer through the loss and all that. I mean, it like hurt me a little bit, but like I said, I just like grabbed another freaking piece of chicken and carried on with my day. You had to like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look at all your sacrifice, everything that was going on, how the, how the army was looking at you, how the rest of your friends were looking at you, ugh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, that's friggin legit. And, you know, that's, I guess that's what, that's what makes any, any, like, uh, book or, yeaah, I guess any book or writing or talk that you're gonna give.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, even uhm, so in the book Extreme Ownership, the opening chapter is we had a blue on blue. I was in charge. A friendly Iraqi soldier got killed, one of my guys got wounded, a few other Iraqi soldiers got wounded as well.


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[Assistant] And when I got home from that deployment, I would brief everybody. I mean, I would brief every SEAL platoon, every SEAL team that was going out. I had a full brief about exactly what happened, what went wrong, how you can prevent it from happening, how we prevented it from happening again, and why it was my fault that this happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as we were writing Extreme Ownership, that chapter wasn't in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we talked about, I talked about a bunch of other little mistakes that I made and Leif talked about some mistakes that he made and hey, we should have done this better. And here's, and finally the one day Leif was like, Hey,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know the blue on blue? And I'm like, yeah. And he says, you should put that in here. And I said, I thought about it. And of course my mind, I'm like, damn it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now I gotta tell everybody that, oh, this big combat operation, as far as I'm concerned, the worst thing that can happen in war is friendly fire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I gotta- It happens. Yeah, I gotta put myself on report for doing that and being in charge of it. And-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I was like, yeah, absolutely I do. And so I, when I got done writing the chapter, I was like, well here, I go, Hey bro, here's the first chapter. Cause if we're going to go hard, let's just let everybody know what's up out of the gate. And he was like, absolutely. So I think that's the same reason that that book, uh, hits people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right on. Alright, let's, let's go back to the beginning a little bit, where you came from and all this. I'm gonna go to the book for a second.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, cause it's a pretty good opener. It gives a good assessment right here. It says, I'm an atypical dude with atypical parents and an atypical childhood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't exactly know how I ended up like this, but here's my closest guess as to the recipe that made me. To start, add three cups of I grew up in the 80s. So like many of you Gen X types, every day was an adventure. There were no cell phones, no helicopter parents. We left in the morning and came home when the street lights came on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then add two teaspoons of my mom, a highly educated, classically liberal woman who valued books, arts, and dance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She'd probably fit best teaching at an elite east or west coast college than anywhere else on the planet. Now add three heaping tablespoons of my dad.


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[Assistant] An elite counter narcotics officer who literally was going up against Pablo Escobar on the daily at the peak of the war on drugs. He had seen the worst in life and wanted his children to be tough, quick thinking and able to survive in any condition.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were, uh, homeschooled. That's right. Right? Yep. So what's that? You were homeschooled before homeschooling was even a thing. Yep. It wasn't a thing. It's a thing now. I mean, I grew up in the 70s, but it definitely wasn't a thing in the 70s.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the time I had kids, homeschooling was a thing. I homeschooled one of my kids.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, it wasn't a thing though in the eighties. No. Where'd your parents even come up with that? It was like hell. They're radicals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this was all taking place in, up and around San Luis Obispo?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was like a movement a little while ago to make, to separate California into different three regions. Yeaah. I was like, yes, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it just needs to be two re- or I guess, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. That'd be pretty cool. That'd be pretty awesome. Yeah. Yeah, never gonna happen. Uh, you, you, so you're running around as a, as a kid, you're doing just full on kid stuff. You're freaking running around the woods. You got the Creek Gang.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no, there's no one monitoring shit with you. No. I mean, there's no parental guidance at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're, you spent time in the water too, you're like a water man too, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, uh, man, it's kinda strange you didn't end up in the Navy. I wanted to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the water is such a huge obstacle in, in buds. Yeaah. And it's also, it's also like part of being in the SEAL teams, like you're in the water a lot. So if you grow up in the water, it's kind of, kind of nice to be able to return to it from time to time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're growing up and, and let me jump into the book here. And again, look, I'm, I'm like reading a small percentage of this book. The stories in here are amazing. I'm going to hit on one of them right now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here we go, Jared and Jordan Cunningham, two members of the Creek gang, and two of my best friends on planet Earth were heading to a party driven by teenagers in two separate cars. When I say heading to a party,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean that in the lamest, most wholesome possible way. They weren't going to some Hollywood-style teenage kegger. They were gonna hang out at someone's house and play games. Maybe if things got wild, they'd wrestle in the grass.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was just good wholesome fun. It was a kids, a church kid hangout. But church kids are still kids. And as you've seen from me, and you know from your own childhood, kids do dumb things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two teenage drivers finding themselves alone on a long country road started racing each other, taking turns, passing each other in the oncoming traffic lane. It was Jared's car's turn to speed by.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they slid out from behind Jordan's car and started to pass. The brothers were right next to each other, their respective drivers in mid acceleration in that horrible moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know what the moment was like, as do you. Boys yelling at each other through windows, laughing, swearing, feeling the invincible rush of adrenaline filled youth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were doing nothing wrong, just minding their own business, doing some last minute shopping before Christmas. Neither driver saw the other in time to hit the brakes or swerve. Jared died age 13, December 20, 1994, five days before Christmas in front of his 16 year old brother, Jordan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] An interesting thing about the book is, like we've been talking about, it's very humble for you to point this out, but you'll go through these things where there should be some big lesson learned and you'll literally say like, this was a huge lesson that I could have learned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I missed it. And, and, I mean, this, this, kinda like what happens here, this doesn't, this doesn't slow you down at all. I mean, you're still like, just going wild as a kid, doing normal kid shit. And it sounds like everyone else was too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so you're running around, I mean you're getting in fights, you're getting jobs, you're getting fired, you're attacking people. It's just really classic. What are you attacking?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So at some point it sounds like your dad realizes you need some, some kind of harness, some kind of direction and then comes, uh, wrestling, other martial arts. What's, what's that like? It's weird cause you wrestled but you weren't allowed to wrestle


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In like the CIF, California state problem, homeschooled program.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you were doing, your dad was getting you into other like traditional martial arts as well. Uh, what do you got? Dokan Jiu Jitsu. What was that all about?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, but you could only compete in just club tournaments, you couldn't compete in the CIF. That's right. How'd you do against kids that were good wrestlers from, from, that were wrestling in CIF? I got smashed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm just going to leave you here, son. Sorry. I remember the first tournament, first high school tournament that my son wrestled in. He was, so he might've just turned 14 and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he might've even still been 13. Anyways, he was young, but he was, he was on the varsity team cause he's pretty good. And so we take him to the big tournament. There's 64 people in the bracket. He's the 64th seed cause he's a little kid and the first, so he's going up against the number one and number two seed in the first, his first match.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, even for me, like the first time I ever did jiu-jitsu against this old master chief who was probably like 10 years younger than I am right now, but he seemed like the oldest dude in the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, he just like choked me out, armlocked me, and I was like, oh, I'm literally thinking, whatever this dude knows, I'm gonna do everything in my power to learn everything about it, cause I don't ever want this to happen again. This is, this is what I'm doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's nothing else you can say. And then there's a dividing line too, because some people when they feel that, they just want to avoid that thing forever for the rest of their life. And that's a bummer. Because...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's just the wrong path to go down. Some people when they experience that, like, oh, this other human being.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can hold me and do whatever he wants to me and I hate that and I'm gonna do everything I can to be able to stop that from happening in the future.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At slow kickboxing, walking into the one of the most.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm going to be training with a rising star of the UFC, a guy by the name of Chuck Liddell, alongside his merry band of badasses. First we have Gann McGee, an almost 300 pound wrestler from Cal Poly who fought for the UFC world championship against Tim Sylvia. Gann lost, but Tim popped for steroids that fight.


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[Assistant] Next we have Eric Schwartz, another Cal Poly wrestler who is undefeated in WEC and K1 kickboxing circuit. He's Chuck's main training partner.


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[Assistant] Never far from him was Scott Lights Out Lighty, a K-1 kickboxer and mixed martial artist. Then there's Jason Von Flu, you know, the guy that the famous jujitsu choke is named after. That guy.


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[Assistant] Cruz Gomez is the only little guy in the mix. Meaning he was about my size. 5'11", 170. But what he lacked in stature he made up for an abject savagery.


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[Assistant] Finally, there's Glover Textura, a jiu-jitsu badass who would go on to become the UFC champion with the most subs at light heavyweight in UFC history.


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[Assistant] Did, did Scott win? Yeah, leg lock. And yeah, there's that video, there's a video of me and Jeff Monson. And unfortunately, it's like a three minute video and the, the, the match was triple overtime. So like, I've seen the full video


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 14 times a week. You end up, your first, your first fights for money, and this is such a, like, this book is insane. Uh, your first fights for money are, you get it, you, you do somebody a favor of driving some weapons down to New Orleans for some kind of an event or something like this.


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[Assistant] Yeah, the other wild thing is like, you don't know, you don't have any clue who your opponent is. No YouTube. Yeah. And, and, you know, when I would be working with young fighters, you know, get these hyped up young fighters, they've been training for two years, like, I wanna fight, I wanna do an amateur fight. I'm like, okay. But you don't know who your opponent's gonna be.


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[Assistant] And I call out one of our guys that's like a black belt that wrestled in high school. I go, you know that guy upstairs? Yeah. You train with him? Yeah. I go, he's got his first amateur fight in two weeks too. Like think about that. You know, think about, you don't know who you're getting in with.


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[Assistant] But luckily you were kind of, you were well rounded for the time for sure.


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[Assistant] Those are my two options. Three hours north, two hours south. So then you brought Glover in, and now you got on tap.


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[Assistant] That's cool. These poor freakin' kids on the Indian reservation decided to fight your ass bro. Damn. The funny thing is though, I'm just thinking about this, you posted a picture a while back of like you when you're just in the army. And, you know, you look young. You look young. And so,


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[Assistant] Meanwhile, while all this is going on with this kind of like fight career,


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[Assistant] Which, by the way, is also like a stretch. I mean, I guess you could look at the UFC at the time and be like, oh yeaah, maybe I could do that, but it seems like a stretch, you know? Yeaah, you're not gonna make money. Yeaah. At that time. Uhm. So you're trying to become...


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[Assistant] As I step off the truck and my boots hit the ground, I can already taste the dust continuing the horror movie motive. The things that immediately catch my eyes are hymnals being gently blown toward me across the ground.