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[Assistant] See friends, I can see people from the past, and I'm doing something that I understand that I did my whole life, so I enjoy it.


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[Assistant] If I would be still young and still bitter to drive, maybe I wouldn't enjoy it because I would feel like I wanna be racing.


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[Assistant] Welcome everyone to Beyond the Grid with me, Tom Clarkson.


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[Assistant] My guest this week is an American motorsport legend.


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[Assistant] He won the Indy 500 and the IndyCar title, but all that came after Formula One. Because in the early 80s, he raced for Tyrrell, scoring points at Monaco in 1983, and finishing second in the Race of Champions. The man I'm talking about is, of course,


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[Assistant] Danny remembers his career like it was yesterday and he tells some great stories about his time in F1 and with the Tyrrell family in particular. I hope you enjoy our conversation.


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[Assistant] So look, you do seven years racing in Europe, and it leads to that drive with Tyrrell in 1983. How did that come about?


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[Assistant] Can I ask you a little bit more about your relationship with the Tyrrell family? You say you've made a couple of references to being a gopher for them. When did you first meet Kent?


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[Assistant] What about Jackie Stewart? Did he help you in your career? Did he give you any advice on driving in terms of putting you in contact with other people? It doesn't sound like you needed much help.


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[Assistant] What an intro for you though, in the world of Formula One. And just living with Ken and Nora Tyrrell. Ken strikes me as a man who liked a full English breakfast every day. Is that true? That's true. And he also loved


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[Assistant] As we look to the past in this episode to learn all about Danny and his extraordinary career.


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[Assistant] Because Expo 2020 Dubai and Formula One are thrilled to invite you to join the making of a new world. From the 1st of October 2021 to the 31st of March 2022, Expo 2020 brings you 182 days of what's next in art, music, food and tech.


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[Assistant] The biggest cultural gathering in the world dedicated to being the world's most impactful global incubator for new ideas


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[Assistant] Catalysing an exchange of new perspectives and inspiring action to deliver real life solutions to real world challenges. There's something for everyone to enjoy. Techies can experience the possibilities of a truly connected high tech world. From autonomous vehicles to space travel.


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[Assistant] As they witness the latest innovations and breakthroughs and take a glimpse into the future. Entertainment fans will be wowed with up to 60 live shows each and every day.


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[Assistant] And foodies will be pleased to know that there will be cuisines on offer from every corner of the world. Expo 2020's sub-themes of opportunity, mobility and sustainability will inspire visitors to preserve and protect our planet


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[Assistant] Explore new frontiers and build a better future for everyone.


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[Assistant] World Expos are a global celebration and this is the first time it'll be hosted in the Middle East, Africa and South Asia region, so make sure you don't miss it. Join the making of a new world. To plan your experience, visit expo2020dubai.com


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[Assistant] Your third race. The race of champions at Brands Hatch. You finished second, behind


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[Assistant] Let's throw it forward now to the Monaco Grand Prix, which is what, a month, six weeks after that race of champions, and you finished fifth.


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[Assistant] What about back home in America? Were people waking up to Danny Sullivan?


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[Assistant] As you reflect on your career as a whole,


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[Assistant] Infamous for the, the spin and the win, uhm, and for people who don't know what I'm talking about, you, you came up to, to take the lead from Mario Andretti, you do a 360, you keep going, Mario retakes the lead, 20 laps later, you do it for real, you win the race. How did winning the Indy 500 change your life?


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[Assistant] And there's one extraordinary thing I wanted to ask you about. I think it was 89 where during practice you broke your right arm. Yeah.


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[Assistant] We're chatting in Mexico, where you are the driver steward for the weekend. What do you make of all the runoff in Formula One in particular now? Do you think it's a good thing? And, you know, everyone talks about track limits.


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[Assistant] One thing I did want to ask you, the Andretti deal. For those listening who aren't aware of it, Michael Andretti, very successful IndyCar driver, IndyCar team owner.


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[Assistant] Towards American drivers. And uhm, I think some guys at Sauber may have said to him,


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[Assistant] Danny, you touched on the Red Bull driver search. You were in charge of it, and tell me if I'm wrong, but your job...


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[Assistant] There's such a feel-good factor, isn't there, with F1 in America now. Do you think we'll get a third race at Indianapolis? Your old boss, Roger Penske, do you think he's interested?


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[Assistant] Danny, many thanks for your time. It was great to catch up and I look forward to seeing you at a racetrack again soon.


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[Assistant] As ever, please remember to send in any thoughts and stories that you have on Danny. Were you at Monaco or the Race of Champions in 83? Or even his victory in the Indy 500 two years later? Let me know and remember, I'll read out the best ones next week.


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[Assistant] Well that's a lovely message Rahul. Valtteri is a gem, and let's hope I'll forgive him a car capable of those podiums he so craves next year. Next, let's hear this from Shane Bucks. What a brilliant listen, says Shane. You chatting with the legend that is Valtteri Bottas.


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[Assistant] Shout out to Valtry for being so open and honest. Definitely one man I'd love to go for a coffee with, especially after his description of a good coffee.


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[Assistant] Here's all of those things you described, Shane. And I'm glad you highlighted his description of a good coffee. He really loves it, doesn't he? Next up!


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[Assistant] Let's hear from Gillian B from Down Under.


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[Assistant] Well said Gillian, and I think he'll take the honorary Aussie comment given his girlfriend Tiffany's roots down under as well. And here's one final comment from Lance K.


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[Assistant] Some of which I'll read out on the show next week. That's all for now. I'll be back in just seven sleeps with another great guest from the world of Formula One.


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[Assistant] Beyond the Grid is produced by F1 in association with Audio Boom Studios. Until next time, keep it flat out.


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[Assistant] I thought about this so much and it feels so right that I'm not scared of Abu Dhabi. I know the adrenaline rush will be different, very different and will be gone. And that makes me sad, but it's a trade for something different and something very exciting.


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[Assistant] For me, it's been about winning and it's what I enjoyed most, wanted to beat the others, got angry when I didn't, being ambitious, trying to push limits. You can also challenge in different ways other than in a car. And that's what I'm hopefully going to explore.


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[Assistant] Well, I feel, I feel good, I don't know, uhm, it's, uh, you know, obviously you could argue, uh, it's a countdown from when the decision was made, but, uhm, yeaah, I'm looking forward to the races that I was, was looking forward to the last races and, uh, looking forward to the last one, but, uhm,


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[Assistant] I'm not building up super high expectations just because it is the final one, uhm, so just trying to enjoy.


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[Assistant] I think I just felt a big relief because the decision is a very big one, obviously a life-changing one to me and uhm, one that I was, yeaah, that was in my head and growing inside me for a very long time, so uhm, you know, obviously you can imagine a lot of


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[Assistant] With myself as well, uhm, trying to initially understand that voice that was creeping up and, you know, maybe giving me an idea that, uh,


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[Assistant] It's time to move on, but uhm, initially pushed it away and then it's kept, it kept growing. So it's been confusing at the beginning and then it's been a progress, I would say. And yeah, so once the decision was made and it was out, then, uh,


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[Assistant] It was quite a relief and I think I was able to enjoy the time in the car a bit more because I didn't have, you know, these thoughts and uhm,


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[Assistant] To think about, uh, whether I will really do it or not, uhm, anymore.


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[Assistant] Obviously, you know, there's part of the jobs that you enjoy a lot and other parts that you enjoy a bit less.


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[Assistant] But after such a long time and after, you know, also let's be honest, my life has also changed in a way. I have, you know, three kids at home and I really enjoy that part of life and they are growing. So, um, yeah, it's been some years back that the first thoughts were popping up and, um, obviously after the, uh,


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[Assistant] Change from uh, Ferrari to Aston Martin. At that time it was the first time we really thought, uh, you know, it might be.


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[Assistant] Time to stop, or it might be my final contract, my final couple of years, one, two, three, four, who knows, but my final, let's say, period in Formula One.


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[Assistant] Um, lots of thoughts and that voice just kept growing and yeah, I'm fairly analytical. So I've tried to take it apart as much as I can, put it back together, taken it apart. So, um, yeah, it, it, uh, it did take quite some time, but, um, the other hand, it's also a very big decision. So.


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[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, I've been thinking about it for a long time and tried to look at it from all angles and tried to imagine all sorts of scenarios beforehand, even though time will only tell whether, uhm, and how I will get on. But I'm sure life goes on, so I'll manage somehow.


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[Assistant] It's a fantastic world and a world that can suck you in and you can stay in forever sort of thing. Obviously I can't be driving forever, but uhm, to be honest, maybe I've always been a little bit different to a degree that I didn't


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[Assistant] Depend on it and I didn't identify, let's say, outside the races as somebody who was in Formula One.


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[Assistant] I am a racing driver, yes, but, uh, you know, when I got home, I really enjoyed the bits of life that everybody is able to enjoy. There's always been more to life and always more to see than just the racing world, which obviously has consumed me and I've been obsessed with it for most of my life.


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[Assistant] I'm sad to not have the adrenaline rush anymore, sad to not have the competition, uh, that feeling to push myself, the car, the elements to the limit. But, uh, I'm looking forward to what's next. So I can't give you an answer exactly on what's next.


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[Assistant] I have plenty of ideas, things that I would like to try, but uhm, yeaah, I'm also very curious to get to know myself in this regard and give that part of me more room.


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[Assistant] Then isn't that something that we, as in all drivers and all sportswomen, sportsmen, are facing at some point? Just that thought gives me quite a bit of...


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[Assistant] Rest as in it will catch us all, whether we choose to or whether it's chosen from outside. No matter the circumstances, I think there's a time for an athlete to move on and do something else. But I think this, you know, being ambitious, trying to push limits, you can,


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[Assistant] Also challenge in different ways other than in a car. Now I don't have the expectation that I'll do something else and be amongst the best in the world. I think that would be far-fetched and the wrong sort of approach. But I do think that, you know, the general approach


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[Assistant] Ambition can also show in other things and that's what I'm hopefully going to explore with, you know, time and room to give all these things that I maybe, you know, got to know and got to enjoy outside Formula One as well.


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[Assistant] I don't expect to, let's put it this way, you never know, but I think it would be a miracle if I was, because obviously I've done this my entire life, I haven't had much time to do it much else.


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[Assistant] I think that's not a realistic approach, for me at least not, and uhm, yeaah, I think, you know, whatever it is, then I'm starting from scratch, but I think the ambition is natural, you have it as a competitor and it can show on other things, but I don't expect to make the news, if you see what I mean.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean that's also an option, definitely. I think there's so much to learn, uhm, so, uh, there's plenty of, of things that, like I say, I'm interested in and I would love to give room and at the minute I'm just trying to keep...


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[Assistant] I'm curious to learn about myself. I might feel horrible, I might go through a phase where it's really, really difficult, uhm, but like I said, it's coming at some point anyway, sooner or later, and it feels like the right time. Uhm, like I said, I have three kids at home, I really enjoy that and I want to see them grow as well because obviously, you know, this job comes with


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[Assistant] It says full-on, so uhm, it would feel wrong to do it some sort of halfway, just to be part of it or just to be a Formula One driver. I love winning, I love the competition and to win you need to do everything. That's my conviction. If you're not prepared to do everything anymore, then it's time to make room for others.


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[Assistant] You know, I've, it taught me so much, not just in terms of skills, driving, but so much about life, and it's enjoyable, I, you know, it's a great feeling, so if they like it, then, you know, uhm, I, I, it sounds so, uhm,


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[Assistant] Empty, but I just want them to be happy, whatever they choose to do. I have no expectations. I don't want my children to go to university and, you know, get a degree and become something really special. I want them to be happy. And if I, we can assist them in doing what they love, then


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[Assistant] I think that's a, that's a great purpose to have and at the same time I feel there's so much I can learn with them. You know, it's not, I'm not going to live their lives because I didn't want my father, my mother, my parents to live my life. I think we all need to live our lives, but uhm,


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[Assistant] Yeah, if I can help and assist here and there and that's fine, especially at that age and at some point for me it's time to move over and let them do their own thing.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think everything needs to come together as well. Obviously, um, you know, I've worked with great teams, great people, had a blast. And, um, yeah, obviously I'm able to choose from many races. If you ask me which one might have been the best, for example, lots of highlights.


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[Assistant] So, yeaah. Could it be more? Probably. Could it be more? Could it be less? Could also be less, but I don't think that's just valid for me. I think that's valid also for other great names that might be on your list.


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[Assistant] I don't know. I mean, obviously the first one stands out always because it's the first one. Uhm, also the circumstances were unique. But then there were many races, uh, that were, you know, great as well. Uhm, but also races that maybe I didn't win and, uh, uhm, they felt great as well, so.


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[Assistant] Uhm, obviously, like I said, for me, it's been about winning and it's what I enjoyed most and, uh, it's why I've been, you know, in the sport from a young age. I always wanted to beat the others.


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[Assistant] I got angry when I didn't, uhm, I think I, yeaah, got to know myself, uhm, and that side of my, uhm, my competitiveness that I can't always win, obviously, uhm, and sometimes others are just doing a better job or deserve more to win than, than I did. But yeaah, uhm, I think you grow as a man, as a competitor and, uhm,


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[Assistant] I'm very happy with the achievements I made. For me, it was always my biggest sort of dream to win the world championship. After the first one, it was a massive relief.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it was because it's again the first one and it was such a milestone plus it was, you know, that sort of pressure. Uh, once you win a race then you have that sort of expectation.


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[Assistant] Yeah, now you need to do it more consistent and win more often to win the championship. And once that was off my shoulders, it was a great feeling and then it was just hungry for more.


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[Assistant] Hard to talk to, I got into like little fights with my father who was my mechanic when I was in go-karts. Yeaah, it never lasted a very long time, I have to say I always turn the page fairly quickly, but initially just angry with myself.


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[Assistant] But also wondering what I missed and what I could do better and, uh, channeling it into something positive and obviously later on working with, you know, more experienced people and lots of engineers.


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[Assistant] You try to obviously understand and analyze why and, you know, I've, I've, uhm, I think I've always...


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[Assistant] Like the rational approach, uh, why things happened and what we can do about them next time to, to learn and make sure that you don't sort of lose again. Yeah. Haven't managed to, uh, you know, completely get it, but I think it's been okay.


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[Assistant] No, not really, I don't think so. I mean, I didn't count myself as in...


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[Assistant] You know, now it's year five and it's better than year four and now it's year six or year eight. I don't know. So I never looked at it that way. I think you, you understand also after a couple of years, um, that, uh, especially let's say after, I don't know, after the 2010 to 13 wave and then the 14 sort of hole where,


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[Assistant] I didn't win, I think I didn't win a race. And, uh, you know, you were happy then after some races to be back on the podium because you haven't been for a while.


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[Assistant] So it changed the, it just changed, it's normal, it changes your view on things. Whereas if you're, you know,


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[Assistant] At the front and winning all the time, top three, then being second and third, you're not happy or pleased with yourself. So then the years with Ferrari, they were a bit up and down, but overall still at the front.


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[Assistant] You could argue the last two years in a way were taught me a lot, not being able to win races because the car wasn't good enough. And, uh, you know, that's the nature of our sport, which


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[Assistant] If you are at the front, you sort of ignore because it just doesn't touch you and there's probably other names, uhm, you know, when you've always been in a very competitive kind at the front, then you don't see what's happening in the back. But the efforts by the teams and the drivers are probably as high, uhm, the push is as high but nobody mentions it and uhm,


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[Assistant] Just less light, less focus, but, uh, it taught me a lot in terms of, um, you know, understanding that if things don't go that way and they might have as well in the bigger picture, then, uh, it would have been a very different sort of time spent in Formula One and different expectations. So I think it always depends where you are hovering.


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[Assistant] around the grid. Now, I mostly believe you can fight your way up and, and, uh, you deserve the place at the front, but, you know, it's also true that the guys that are in P10 or P12, P15, they're no idiots and they would be winning races if they were in the right car, so.


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[Assistant] That's where it would be nice to see in the future maybe if our sport was coming a little bit closer together so that we see more drivers at the front battling for podiums and wins.


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[Assistant] There's time, there's a time for everything, you know. Like I said, you don't finish on the podium for, I don't know, 10 races, and the race you finish back on the podium, it feels amazing, even though it might only be a second or third, and not a win. You win 10 races in a row, you finish second or third, it feels like coming short.


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[Assistant] You know, you will never get to a point where I think you forget about, uh, what's happening in the moment and looking at the bigger picture as in imagine what you think if, you know, you look back in 10 years time.


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[Assistant] So yeah, did I enjoy the races that I win enough? I think so. I think, you know, I could have celebrated more. But then I was very quickly in the mode of winning the next one, which I think is a big contributor of why I probably won so many.


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[Assistant] Not letting yourself go in the, in the moment too much and not losing the focus. But then again, we're all different. Everybody has a different approach and I think that's, that's fair. You know, my approach probably wouldn't work for others and others wouldn't work for me.


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[Assistant] I don't remember exactly how I fell 10 years ago. Uhm, obviously I, I love winning. I won, you can argue I was happy, but I think, uhm,


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[Assistant] Yeaah, probably uhm, very happy now. I wouldn't go back in time. I'm very happy where I'm in life today. Racing, but also outside racing, uhm, gives me a lot of joy and uhm,


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[Assistant] Yeah, I wouldn't go back and change anything. I wouldn't go back and say I'll break earlier here or avoid that mistake, uhm, even if it was an obvious one, but I don't think, I think in a bigger picture also the moments that were really difficult or maybe stupid.


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[Assistant] Taught me something in the end and brought me to where I am today, so.


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[Assistant] I don't know, I don't live in the past. I also, uhm, I probably don't live in the present enough. I probably spend quite a while in the future thinking of tomorrow, of what we can do better and how we can make the car faster and so on. I hope it stays that way that I'm not, you know, hanging, hanging in the past.


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[Assistant] Uhm, to realize, but also I feel very strongly going forward that I need to be happy with where I am today, saying that I'm quitting and I want to do something else. Whether I win my last race, win the last championship,


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[Assistant] In the final year, or haven't won a championship now for so many years, I think ultimately only matters to me. So for sure, from the outside, it's a nice story if you can say, ah, he's won on his last race, or he's winning the championship and then he's stepping aside. But...


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[Assistant] Then it's still you that has to, has to cope with it. And for me, I'm happy where, where I am today. I'm not, I don't build up that whole picture of the last race, the last time. Of course it will be emotional.


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[Assistant] Whether I finish first, which I think is unlikely, but whether I finish first or I might not even finish that race, ultimately it doesn't change the, you know, the amazing time that I had in all these years and shouldn't change going forward my perception of all these years.


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[Assistant] The, the sort of strength that she gave me in all, through all that time, I mean we've been together since forever.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think that's probably the correct answer and the fair and the right answer. Also because, you know, Formula One life is very intense. We have a lot of busy schedule, a lot of races, lots of things to do and I think it's very consuming mentally, but to love another person so much to, you know,


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[Assistant] In all honesty, I love her very, very much, but I don't know if I would have been or would be strong enough to do something like that. So for sure, I could name a lot of people now that helped me to


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[Assistant] But uhm, I think deep down, you know, a lot of, I feel a lot of drivers have a lot of talent. We're all a bit different, but that's good. But, uh, I think in the end it boils down to just being


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[Assistant] In peace with yourself, being happy in your life and being able to extract that talent when it matters, keep your nerves together when it matters. And it's got a lot to do with balancing in life and life is bigger than those laps that you see on the, on the track. So I think the answer, the correct answer here is my wife.


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[Assistant] Wow, there's so much. I think she's always been there, you know, always been supportive. I mean, we, um, obviously talk a lot to each other and about everything. So, uh,


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[Assistant] There's a lot of them and uhm, they, they do matter. So she kept me sane. Uhm, yeaah, looked after me and, and gave me the support so that I never felt alone, if you see what I mean. So uhm, and, and, and felt loved. I think that's...


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[Assistant] It's generally a great feeling to, to have. So it's hard to give you an example and say that she's been there and I was down and then she's, you know, doing, she's been, she's been doing this and that and to pick me up and bought me some chocolate or something like this. I think that's, you know, there's been these moments as well, but I think overall it's, um, yeah, there's much more to it.


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[Assistant] Well, I think she's just the best person in this world, and I think she's the best person I can possibly be with, so uhm...


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[Assistant] I don't know, I'm also convinced that if I had gotten to know her later, it would have still been fine. So uhm, I'm just happy that I met her so early. So uhm, I didn't spend a great time looking for her.


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[Assistant] I had a lot of fun. I think, uh, you know, I had, uh, yeah, I think I have a very strong


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[Assistant] The numbers and statistics, I failed because my target was to win the world championship and I didn't. Uhm, ultimately Luis and Mercedes as a package were too strong for us and we, we didn't beat them but uhm,


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[Assistant] The more time passes, the more I'm in peace with it, if that makes sense, uhm, just because.


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[Assistant] Yeah, uh, living through the moment, I know that we've done great things. I know that we've done things also that weren't great. And, uh, in the end, like I said, there was somebody else out there that was just better at that time and deserved to win. So, um, we came second a couple of times, but, uh,


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[Assistant] Well, it was a toll as well. I mean, I think it's, I never felt that sort of extra pressure being a Ferrari driver. If anything, I felt the extra pressure that I had an expectation to myself that I want to succeed in this place and I want to make this thing work.


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[Assistant] You know, there's plenty of reasons why it didn't, or might not have worked, but, uh, in the end, um, I think I'm still very happy and in peace with what we have achieved. But sure, looking back, it was probably, um, you know, it did take a while to sort of recover.


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[Assistant] If you want to hear something, I mean, like I said earlier, I wouldn't really change anything, but...


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[Assistant] I was breaking early, but I would even break earlier, but that's, yeaah. Then you still have to do the rest of the race, so you never know what happens, but uhm, other than that,


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[Assistant] I don't know, might, maybe, uhm, what I did at the time was always trying to do the best I could.


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[Assistant] Yeah, again I think the experience taught me a lot and even if maybe the approach here and there was wrong and it was too, too much or maybe I tried too hard at times, it still taught me something so I probably would have had to learn that lesson at another point so, no.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, already the year before to be honest, uhm, but, uh, yeaah, I think with the, uhm, you know, 17 we had a great car and we fell short. 18 we had a great car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We fell short again at the end, just both years we didn't keep the development pace up and we just fell back. Uhm, so we got beaten. 19 was a bit of an odd year because the start of the season wasn't


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's say uhm, to me at least, not giving me us the momentum to, alright, here we go again. So then you start to think, you know, what might have actually been the problem the last couple of years and maybe there were too many thoughts at the same time Charles came in, uhm, not having, I think being just in a very different


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it was a little bit as if I was looking at my younger self and it did take a little bit of time to understand that, because obviously my target was not to just win a race. I've done that. My target was to win the championship and ideally win the championship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The way I wanted to win the championship, which is winning many, many races. So, uh, yeah, maybe I lost myself a little bit in, in, in that process and maybe my races here and there weren't the finest, but still I will say the lessons that I had and still I would say some of the races were pretty good, were more important and, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, then coming into the year 2020 obviously with the pandemic and it was, yeah, making, making room for that voice that I mentioned earlier inside me to grow as well, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting, but I would just call it life, and I think we all go through that one way or another. I'm no exception, I'm nothing special.


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[Assistant] I don't know, maybe there was, but I, I mean, I spoke with Nicky, but to be honest, I like halfway through the Ferrari period.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About joining obviously would have been a big deal because, uh, Lewis was sort of their number one and then I'm not sure whether they would have liked to have us both in the team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I also didn't have great interest at that time because I was so committed to Ferrari and that was my dream to make that thing work. So you talk to each other, but it wasn't like really serious.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, I think it would have been a great challenge and I think I would have enjoyed that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just wasn't meant to be. I mean, it was the, obviously at that time, like I said, my focus was to win with Ferrari and that was my target. I didn't want to change team and win with Mercedes, if you see what I mean. Other than just winning that I really love, it was winning with Ferrari that was the great goal. So, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and then after it just didn't, didn't happen, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's, that's fine. So cool with that. But, uh, I think I would have enjoyed racing with Lewis. We get along really well. I think our moment was the 2017 Baku Grand Prix where we had maybe you can call it nowadays misunderstanding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was very upset. It was one of these moments where things didn't go my way and I was upset and maybe the emotional side did take too much over. But I think actually that moment was a key moment because it could have made us step away from each other more or bring us together and it brought us together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, because we, I mean, I reflect and I did think about what I, what happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as much as I might have felt in the moment that that is not fair, that's not right, and I wanted to show him, I wanted to tell him, but obviously we're wearing helmets and it's hard to communicate, so that was a form of communication. But I also did see that it was the wrong form and, uh, it was, uh, it was not the right way, it wasn't sportsman-like and not fair.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which I admitted afterwards and we talked to each other and I think since that moment we, yeaah, got closer to each other.


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[Assistant] My father was a Senna fan and watched Formula One before I was born and before Michael was in Formula One. Uhm, but then obviously, you know, we started racing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had so many kids my age, uhm, getting into racing, uhm, and doing, you know, racing go-karts. I think unseen since then in Germany, those numbers. We had more than a hundred kids trying to qualify for a race at the end. The final was with 34 kids on the start. So uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it was that boom as well in Germany that really hyped the whole motorsport culture and, you know, raised the bar in terms of competition and level with all these junior series racing in Germany as well that have helped.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I probably would have gotten into go-karting, racing, but I don't know if I would have taken off as much. Plus, it was a massive inspiration in that age.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Never really a Senna fan because I was too young to, to understand. And Michael was always there since more or less I can remember. So it was clear that I met him then at the go-kart track as well. You know, he was shaking my hand, handing the trophy. So he was still is my hero.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got to know him more and more. If I had not got to know him and then raised him straight away, that would have been surreal. Like that I never felt as if it was surreal because I raised Michael, the person, my friend, the person I got to know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, at some point I didn't see him, I forgot sometimes that he's the Michael I admired when I was a child growing up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The same Michael, if you see what I mean, because then you get to know somebody and you see the person first before the stats.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If that makes sense. So uhm, yeaah, it was just nice to, to race him and sometimes I had like flashbacks just of my childhood and actually realizing it's him. Uhm, many times when we race together, the race of champions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you see more of what he's doing, even though it's for fun, but still, you know, him in a go-kart, him in any type of car, it was, for me, it was something special to witness because it just looked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Better than all the other drivers I've seen so far. It just, there was something else. Maybe that's just me admiring him, but I think there was also something special.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the little moments, you know, when you stand on the track in free practice and you watched and obviously, you know, when I watched on television, it was far away. But when you start to see him live and when he was in a go-kart or like I mentioned, the race of champions and some of these other cars trying to wrestle the circuit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whereas I haven't looked at myself from the outside, but with other drivers, you always got the impression, yeah, they're fighting, fighting the car, fighting the tires, fighting the track.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With Michael he was fighting these things, but it never looked rushed. It never looked out of control. Even when he was breaking too late, did a mistake, lost a lot of time. Still looked like in control. So, yeaah, I don't know if that's just worshipping him and because he was my childhood hero or there was something else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think maybe there are some similarities, but I don't think it's sustainable as well. I don't think it's...


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[Assistant] I work hard because it's the right thing to do or I work hard because it's what he or she did and he or she succeeded.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm naturally interested and obviously I feel extremely privileged that I've worked such a long time with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, very intelligent people, very clever, smart people, but mostly very passionate people. F1 is a unique world that sucks you in. And I think mostly because people are very passionate. They're passionate about racing, passionate about making a car go faster, which you could argue, what's the relevance? What's the point? Maybe there is none.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We love it and it's the passion that drives these people and to work with passionate people I think is a great gift because it


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[Assistant] It never felt like work. It never felt like I'm staying here to, you know, work harder than the others. It felt more like I'm interested and they are giving me everything I want to know. It's more like at some point I had to say stop and say, look,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know that I need to get some rest as well, I need to get some thoughts outside this bubble, uh, to then be able to perform on the next day, but uhm, I think working with passionate people has taught me so much, and uhm, it's not a given.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, yeaah, uhm, maybe when I, you know, get to a point where it's like, Oh, what have I done? I will go back into my notebooks and read through them. But, uhm, hopefully I will not open them again. Like I said before, not spending too much time in the past, not spending too much time in the future, thinking of future notebooks, but being a bit more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, I know where they are. They're in the drawer and uhm, yeaah, shouldn't get too much dust.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I think first it might be hard to explain to them what a notebook is. I think, you know, they are becoming a little bit out of fashion, but uhm, I'll keep them because I don't know, it would be quite harsh to throw them away. But then again, there's, you know, new notes to be made.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think I admire him as a competitor. He's probably been the toughest one, especially in these first couple of years. And we had so close battles at the end of the championships, both in 2010 and then 2012 in particular, which is still probably one of my


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For me it was very intense and I think both of us were very nervous. I rate Fernando really high as a driver. I think he's got so much natural talent, incredible determination.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Great racing instinct. And all of that he hasn't lost. He's still, you know, you can see he loves, he loves his racing. He's very passionate. As a person though, I don't know him really. I never got, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wouldn't say we don't get along. I think we respect each other. But this, it just never happened that we really...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think he's a great competitor, probably one of the most difficult.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've ever had because it's just always there and never backs off but also very respectful when it comes to wheel to wheel racing and I've enjoyed so much. But like I said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a person, we probably don't have the best of relationships because we just don't know each other so well. Maybe we are too different, maybe there's other interests. I mean, we have racing as a common passion that excites us both.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then, uh, yeaah, it just never happened that we, in all these years, uh, really got, uh, got to know each other. And it's probably like in school or like in at work, you have a colleague that you respect, but you don't really know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe the chemistry isn't as much as I get on with Lewis and we have stuff to just talk about and maybe some views that we share.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With Fernando, I might have these as well, but we just never had the chemistry to really get, get into this. So I, I think uhm, despite having the same passion, big passion in our lives, we're probably two very different people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The gap's always been the same, but obviously, uh, um, you know, I, I could, you could argue I'm closer to him than maybe to somebody who's coming in with 20 today. But, uh, yeah, probably just two different people. And we are probably in a very different point in our lives, despite the fact that, you know, we've been racing each other for so long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, and I don't think there will be, but I don't think, I don't know, I don't think that's, it's going to happen. I mean, if he has a question, I'm happy to answer. Uhm, but, uh, I don't think that will happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Straight away, turn the car around. I mean, even during the spin, release the brakes, roll down the hill. I think if I had just slammed on the brakes to try not to hit anything, other people would have hit me and that would have been my race and championship, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, straight away realizing that's not good, boom, but then getting off the brakes by instinct, just rolling down the hill trying to avoid contact because when I'm a moving target it's easier than just a stationary one where nobody can sort of react in time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then fight my way back. There was not a single moment where I doubted this is over. It was just, okay, this is not good. I don't know what's going to happen, but this can still be good if we just keep our heads down and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Race till the end, the race isn't over. I wasn't asking in the race, where's Fernando? Where's Fernando? Uhm, at some point I was racing him as well, again in that race, but uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was a long race, just because so many things happened. It was crazy. We went to intermediates and then back to different tires, I don't know how many times. Uhm, that I actually don't remember how many pit stops, but it felt like a lot. And uhm, yeaah, so when we then,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Across the line, it was big relief. I was very happy. And I didn't think about Fernando much, to be honest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, obviously there's a ton of parallels when it comes to, you know, red ball with a team the first year, the second year. But, uh, I think it's a different time. I think he's a different guy. I, I think the people that work with him and probably work with me are the best ones to, to ask. Again, I think probably we're quite different, but, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, obviously it's incredible what he's doing and he's got an incredible talent and I think he's matured as well over the years. Now it's also that he's been around for quite a while. So uhm, yeah, I think he deserves every race that he wins.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] F1 is particular because you only get to really see, let's say, what's happening behind the wheel with your teammate. Uhm, the other drivers, now we get a lot of information data and so on and have some knowledge, but you don't really know how good their car is, how much they might adapt, how much


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Comes their way, how much they're working for it. You just don't see all of these things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let me think if, you know, on a, on a, on the day, uhm,


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[Assistant] Obviously that, you know, in terms of consistency, uhm, I think I've been, and I don't want to give and sound like I give myself credit, but strong in those years. But on the day Mark, when he got his things right, it was unbelievable to witness. I don't know, like he'd pick a weekend like Nürburgring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was just, I ran out of things to do. And you know, I, I, after the race, I just said, I don't know how you did it, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In his happy place, if he was there and the car was doing what he wanted and expected, it was, it was, it was, it was impressive to see. Um, obviously, um, you know, spending the year, I think they've been all been, all been challenging and, and, um, different and special in their ways. Um, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think Charles has been something special, just the amount of talent, uhm, and how he manages to, in one lap is in particular in qualifying to squeeze, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pace out of himself, the car, uh, was nice to see, so yeaah. Lots of, I think it's not fair to drop, probably one of the teammates I had, Daniel, obviously had a mega year in 2014 and


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[Assistant] Yeah, the truth is he outperformed me for some of, uh, you know, the races with quite a big margin and I ran out of solutions. Those are the moments that are not very happy, but I learned probably to sort of, yeah, channel my anger and being upset feeling into something positive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I didn't mean to leave him out. I think Kimi is actually the biggest natural talent I've come across.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ever. Just in terms of raw speed, I think uhm, and it shows in the car obviously, but it shows also in any other form of car. I think switching, if there was a discipline of switching cars,


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[Assistant] Every day, after 10 days, Kimi will be lapping everybody else, just because it's just, it's just a natural, it doesn't take time to adapt to the car, to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What the car requires, you give him his steering wheel and he knows what to do, that's the sort of pressure. Sometimes you feel it's unfair, you need to get used to first and, you know, get an idea of the track or the conditions and for him it just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think with him I probably had the best relationship out of all the teammates I had because he was just so straight forward. There was never an argument if we crashed into each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Talked about it, fixed what happened, maybe laughed about it, uhm, it was my mistake, it was his mistake, but then there was never a question that anything could sort of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't want to say bond, but the relationship that we, we had. And he's been probably the, also the one when I came in, I remember he was so respectful from the day I walked in, you know, looking into my eyes. Um, where with other drivers, I felt, okay, I'm shaking hands and I'm saying hello, but actually the guy is not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not present, uh, is not here. So with people, I think Kimi has been exceptional.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, it was not a, it was, no, not a problem. I think we never got upset with each other. Uhm, like I said, because we just talked about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I mean, now there's a bit of time and, uh, time that has passed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look, I think Red Bull started to become a team where you could actually achieve something. Uhm, Mark was a huge contributor to that. And when it came together, then, you know, it was, in the end, our sport is great, but only one guy can win. I wanted to win, he wanted to win, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that's just the, it was just the rivalry and probably, you know, we were at very different stages in our career. I didn't look at much else and maybe here and there didn't have the maturity to look at, you know, a bigger picture sort of thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think we always got on, uhm, it got more intense because the rivalry was just there and it was, you know, clear that we can win in our car and, like I said, only one guy can win. But, uh, I think the fact that we always had a good relationship even in difficult times brought us together in the end again and today I think we are really good with each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Red was first, yes, uhm, we had a 1-2 as well. So uhm, yeah, great memories. I cut my finger actually on the trophy, I remember that. I still have a little bit of blood on the trophy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it was an incredible weekend, qualifying, you're right, just that one run or just that one lap in every segment because you had an issue with the driveshaft seal. So yeah, I think it's not fair to just highlight a few, but for sure, looking back, there have been a couple because of the circumstances as well that have been exceptional.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, obviously, uh, it's been a very, very difficult year, um, in this regard with the passing of, uh, Dietrich only, um, a short time ago. So, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, I think for me, I'm happy to go into the unknown. And like I said, it's a bit about uhm, you know, not being selfish, but about self-discovery because obviously I have the racing me that I know really well and I had the racing environment that gave me a home for so long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But also gave me a schedule, gave me a rhythm, gave me so much to hold on to. And now I think I feel I'm ready to get out and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Learn about myself, obviously, uhm, you know, the day I decided to have children, I think part of my life, uhm, I was happy to give to my children. And I don't feel that's a loss, I think that's a massive win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I look forward to that side. Uhm, but for sure, like I said, I don't want to live the life of my children. I think it's important that I find something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Outlive or not outlive my ambition and my, my drive that obviously I have. I'm a bit mad and I'm a bit...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, insane sometimes. So uhm, yeaah, I need to find a, a place to, to do that. But it might be racing in a, in a different form. I don't know. It might be something completely different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The honest answer is I don't know. Uhm, maybe after a year I feel like I need to get back in the car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if it's a Formula One car or any other car, but uhm, I feel that there's also so much more to life and other things that I would love to explore and then really only I feel by


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if it will fulfill me, so I think I need to be open and open-minded. But yea, whether it's racing, racing in a different form, that means not in the cockpit, but outside the cockpit, like what you mentioned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Working with a driver, some drivers, young drivers, I don't know, could be, but it could as well be something completely different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's cool as well. So we'll see. Obviously I have passions outside of Formula One. I'm very much passionate about the future, the future of our planet and the future of humanity in terms of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, being concerned where we are, uh, the climate crisis and the threat to future generations. So uhm, yeaah, I'm very interested in and solution orientated. Maybe that's because of hanging around with so many engineers for so long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, that's not just a start, I think it's a necessity. And it's only just fair for those kids that are now 20, 24 racing in Formula One, because they want to keep racing as long as I did. The kids that are now in go-karts that dream about Formula One, that maybe might be in Formula One one day, having the opportunity to do so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I hope that Formula One can be change of the, you know, part of the, uh, solution for future paths to go down. So yeah, many, many interests and many thoughts that I have. And like I said, I want to give those more, more room.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's the, that's more how I see it. I don't know if I'll be in tears and all, uh, break down, but uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, maybe it sounds strange but I thought about this so much and it feels so right that I'm not scared of Abu Dhabi and I'm looking forward to it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And looking forward to what's coming after. I know the adrenaline rush will be different, very different and will be gone. The excitement of driving in places like Suzuka, pushing myself in the car to the limit and feeling the forces.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Will be gone. And that makes me sad. But again, it's a trade for something different and something very exciting, potentially. I need to find out. But that's how I, how I feel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Up to all these people, I mean, it was such a crazy time in a positive way with the support and the passion from the fans as well. You know, we talk about the passion of people inside Formula One, but fans make this sport what it really is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had this weird live experiment with COVID during the pandemic. Nobody on the grandstand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just felt wrong, just felt empty. We were racing, racing for points, racing for trophies, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I will miss that, I will miss the excitement, I will miss the people, their little messages, their, you know, attention. But again, you know, there's only so much time we all have, I feel, and I feel ready to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the next generation is already there. So plenty of other drivers to sort of root for. I don't, I don't know. I, I don't feel I want to be or need to be remembered.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not that everything I did was irrelevant, but just, uh, because it's, you know, there's always tomorrow. Maybe it's this, uh, like I said, this side of me that is always looking forward to the next thing that hinders me sometimes to enjoy the present, but, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it's up to people. I think I, I've always tried to be fair. I've always tried to be kind to people. Now they can remember how many races I've won, uhm, have won at championships, but I think


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd rather be remembered, you know, that I've been kind, attentive and just me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If they, you know, enjoy that or like that, that's fine. And if it inspired people along the way, you know, I received so much and having so much fun in all these years, if that has given something to people, that's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Satisfying enough, I don't need to be remembered with a banner or with, you know, paroles that people are, uh, are using every time they go through a certain corner or to a certain place. You see what I mean? I don't know if it makes sense, but that's how I...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thank you. I'll miss parts of it as well, for sure. But uhm, yeaah. I think, like I said, there's always something waiting around the next corner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I lost myself a little bit because I was like, I couldn't speak a word because I sat in tears. It sounds pretty crazy to be the first one of my country because we have so many people back in my country.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've been through this journey. It's very tough. It's like a very roller coaster ride. It's not the smoothest one. I was just very happy to be that person able to represent them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, to be honest, you know, like, every, like, two weekend, I feel like I was able to make a step forward, and especially in Baku, I felt like, uh, even though it's the first time driving on a straight thing from the one car, it's super difficult with the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the breaking and, uh, arrow marginally, but, uh, which is actually very happy. I've made a big step up since like the Friday. I was able to up the pace together with Valtrye and then it just really helped us as a team to be moved forward. So yeah, I feel like, uh, very well settled in Formula One now and, uh, actually, you know, can prove more myself. So yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No you much better in Formula 1. And then apart from that, as a Formula 1 driver, there's a lot of things to take. Rather than just driving on track, you have to be focused a lot on other stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a completely different world in Formula 1, like even F2, F1 is only one step away from each, but when you actually reach the absolute top of this level, you just feel, you know, your life, everything just changed massively, so yeaah, it's great.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By then, but yeaah, after one, two race weekend, actually, you know, you start your weekend on Wednesday or Thursday and then there's a lot of media, you're going through the questions, questions again.


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[Assistant] Around 8 engineers just walking together on your side. And it's crazy, like...


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[Assistant] You know, just gain that confidence and you can improve a lot. But yeah, it's, it's a, it's a big difference. And, uh, I have to say it's not, not the easiest to be understanding or to be adapting straight away. And it takes a bit of time, but, uh, yeah, so far this part of the season, I feel like I'm just, everything became more natural.


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[Assistant] I love, you know, the technical side of it because, uh, everything you try to get it perfect.


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[Assistant] Bad lab, just not looking at any lab time, but yeaah. In general, it's uh, obviously feeling that so sensitive, we start little margining. It's, it's pretty difficult.


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[Assistant] Newest track, we're going to a lot of old school straight city tracks. So the bouncing generate even more. And yeah, I remember Baku is a special one on the straight and Monaco is something crazy, like, uh,


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[Assistant] I never experienced so bouncing, like some, some corners I even can't really see it properly, the corner just have to go for it and it's, it's tough. I think that's probably the first thing.


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[Assistant] But then in the physical side of things, I think after two rounds, everything was fine. I mean, neck is probably the key, but since Jedha, I feel like, you know, I have no issue on the neck. I can be holding up pretty well, so it's all good.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's actually, you know, came out pretty well and I was maybe stronger than I expected.


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[Assistant] And then you can just do quite a lot of exercise on that or you, you know, do a day of go-kart but with that much more weight on the helmet just to generate this.


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[Assistant] Endurance training, so I'll be there just to get like a, you know, like a weight band and hook it around my neck doing something like that. Sometimes it's a bit strange, but yeah, I'm used to all that looks so early so people understand that now.


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[Assistant] Off track on TV and the first time feeling that they actually walks together as one. So it's very cool to obviously be one of the 20 drivers there and try to always thinking about the future. What's bringing is better for, for us, better for the drivers coming up to the categories.


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[Assistant] Yeah, everyone knows I know Alonso Ricciardo for a long time and, uh, because we was in the same basically team in the past and I was obviously the academy driver and then, yeah.


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[Assistant] Racing with a few of the very experienced drivers because it's something, you know, I remember my first race I watched, they was there racing and they're still here racing. So it's actually a special feeling, but yeah, really enjoy of the off track and on track battle together.


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[Assistant] That day, I have to say I didn't know anything about motor sports, so I'll just say I'm fine in general, but I'll just...


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[Assistant] To be able to compete with him or try to beat him on track, it wasn't an easy thing and for me as a kid, I just feel this guy is something special, you know? To be able to beat Michael is, uh, you have to be quite good.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's a, it's a quite, quite like a strange or weird feeling to be fair, because, because the first time I knew him, like, we was together testing, uh, in, uh, like, privatizing, backing, helping. And then, yeah, the following year, that's when he joined, uh, went back to Formula One, I was able to do the,


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[Assistant] I don't know, but like, yeaah, he actually, because I know, you know, a lot of drivers, they don't do trackworks. You know, they, they don't like to do trackworks, and, uh, yeaah, I was, I was surprised, because I didn't know he was doing a trackwork until Thursday, and he was like, oh, I'm coming for a trackwork this year, and not even just that, you know, he was like, actually,


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[Assistant] I've done some, a few days of testing, you know, before that in other tracks throughout the year, but then you never know, you don't have a reference, you know, to follow and you never know what are you against the current F1 drivers like.


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[Assistant] Half second off with medium tire, it was soft, so that just gave me even more like, confidence that...


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[Assistant] The guys around the paddock to know you better and to see actually what's your performance like on track. So yeah, that was definitely an important day and they gave me more opportunities for my F1 dream.


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[Assistant] I think also the other thing is that we have no, for example, Formula One driver that can guide you around or has an academy who help young drivers. So you have to go with the most professional ones when you are young. So yeah, I think still coming to Europe, that's my definitely, absolutely 100% recommend.


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[Assistant] British nationality. So it was something quite clear for us and also the language, you know, even though I wasn't good or quite bad, but then it's still is probably the only language I know back then apart from Chinese.


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[Assistant] And that was like, uh, he became like, he was, uh, I don't know where he was, maybe just about to move into doing all this OKF racing, but before that he was in UK base and yeah.


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[Assistant] I have to say in karting days, not too bad. It's more like, uh,


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[Assistant] Quite difficultly because, you know, there's your competitors or other people who try to take you down for it, but then you have to just really use yourself and use your team. Try to give myself the maximum I have every race weekend and not do any mistakes and then.


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[Assistant] The chance became maybe 20, 50%. And so yeaah, it's tough. I remember there's one time I felt like, you know, I went back home for maybe just five days, not telling anyone, like no one knows from outside the world apart from our family. Just, I just, I just go there and went back just for like a fully relaxed,


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, her plan was to come to the first, first race and I kind of got stuck here because. Loves it. Yeah, so I got into lockdown and yeah.


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[Assistant] Hopefully, you know, they can come. I'm sure they will come, like, during the next few, few months.


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[Assistant] My side, together with Renault, that we think that was a team we have a good chance of it.


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[Assistant] And from my side, that is the year I want to really to put myself into maybe more role, more...


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[Assistant] If I have the opportunity to step in the car, then also to be have an opportunity for my future. But yeah, I think otherwise, I don't know if I had an FP1 last year or not. So I think that was a very good decision.


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[Assistant] You know, more into maybe 20 minutes later and I heard a story of, you know, he was pretty much...


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[Assistant] To be honest, I didn't, because we all know we have like a chance of risk when we put the helmet down and sit in the car, but yeaah. I think by then, I just, I just felt maybe something we could definitely change to make


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[Assistant] Crashing or that happened not to be there anymore because I feel like this corner always has to be changed for this experience.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's, uh, for myself, I wasn't really doubt of if I should not continue or not because I feel like that was my dream. We, as a family, we put so much effort into it. There's no way I'll be backing out from it because we're doing something we love, every drive and we just love to be fighting together in this kind of top speed. So yeah.


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[Assistant] Yeah, exactly. It was, yeah, it was, uh, it was nice to also has a wet reward, his helmet in Sochi, the next race coming up. So it was very special moment because the whole helmet was his, that year's current helmet with his name on it. So it was just something to rest in peace and yeah.


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[Assistant] 5pm at my house, and yeaah, I heard that phone call, because uhm, it was, it was very tough, because basically there was only one CD out for a meal, from Silverstone period, and, you know,


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[Assistant] Young drivers, because that's a dream, and the dream is not something we set and it's very easy to do, it's something you have to, you know...


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[Assistant] It was the last Grand Prix 2019. I was still F2 driver, but by then, people was crazy about it because, I don't know, were you there in 2019, you was, right? I was doing a Renault E20 demonstration before the Grand Prix. So when I stopped, put my helmet down and sat on the top of the cockpit and like the whole ground stand was actually screaming and so,


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[Assistant] Because by then, you know, we like to, in China it's different, we all, our uniform is not blazer with shirt, with like normal shoes, we are just sports shoes and then with like a sports outfit, that's our normal uniform, it's completely different.


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[Assistant] For example, Baku, he was like, even though it's like halfway, like a quarter away for the season, he was like, here you have to just go to the finish. It's the first thing you need to do in Baku. That's before the race weekend even started. He was like, just go to the finish. You never know where you will finish.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, it was, obviously, we have to say what's, obviously, his biggest struggle in Baku, but yeah, I was...


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[Assistant] Able to have to say on Friday, uh, matching more his pace. I think it's everyone is happy to see also him because then we really can push each other to finding this final few times where we have a full potential in the car.


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[Assistant] I mean, from my side, I think I will be just keep walking, build it up from here. And I feel like we are now in a very good like kind of a starting range now.


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[Assistant] You can help me going forward, but then the other thing is that I really want to have a good Sunday because we haven't had one in the last four races and especially with the DNFs it's pretty...


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[Assistant] Frustrating and, uh, yeaah, I just hope that, uh, you know, we can get the problem fixed and then to, I'm sure the results will come. We need to fix it and, uh, yeaah, we have the speed, we have the potential.


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[Assistant] During each Grand Prix, on every inch of race track, teams and drivers are fighting. And the midfield fight is every bit as intense as the battle for the lead.


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[Assistant] Five teams are racing to finish highest in the standings and win millions of dollars in extra prize money. That is what AlphaTowery is racing for and it's technical director Jodie Eggington is pushing flat out.


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[Assistant] I'm Tom Clarkson and this F1 Beyond the Grid is all about Jodie's journey. From newly qualified school teacher to motorsports technical peak.


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[Assistant] He's also got stories of working with big personalities like Ken Tyrrell, one of the old school name on the car team bosses, and Vijay Mallya, the businessman whose Force India team sometimes stunned the sport in the 2000s.


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[Assistant] Jody's seen F1's high-tech transition from pencil drawings to virtual models. And he's struggled for survival at a brand new F1 team.


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[Assistant] Those worries are in the past. Today, AlphaTauri worked closely with Red Bull, and Jody's got some fascinating insight into how that relationship works. He had an insider's view of Pierre Gasly's return to the team from Red Bull Racing, and he's helping Yuki Sonoda to score more and swear less.


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[Assistant] We sat down to talk about all that and much more at the British Grand Prix. I hope you enjoy our conversation.


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[Assistant] Seems to me that most teams have had reliability issues this year. Given that the power units are the same fundamentally as last year, why have these new regs been throwing up so many problems for the teams?


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[Assistant] Right, you wanted to go to 60%. How do you set about trying to find a 60% tunnel? For those of us who don't know. How many are there in the world?


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[Assistant] And when we look at these 2022 regs as a whole, have they achieved the objectives set out by Formula One?


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[Assistant] You say this team develops driver talent. What about engineering talent?


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[Assistant] It's time for a quick break. This is technically an ad break, but our partners at Calm want you to focus on yourself for a moment. So take a deep breath and let it out. Relax wherever you're holding your tension.


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[Assistant] Self care shouldn't be an afterthought and calm can help you make it a priority while giving you the tools to help improve the way you feel. It's important that we all take the time to tune in, re-center and recharge our emotional batteries. One way to do that is through meditation.


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[Assistant] If you want to explore the huge benefits that meditation can have on your wellbeing, all you need to do is download the Calm app and you'll find a whole library of guided meditation designed to help you reduce stress and anxiety.


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[Assistant] I often tune into their curated music playlists full of tracks to help me clear my head and focus my energy.


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[Assistant] And if sleep is something you're struggling with, you'll find a collection of imaginative sleep stories to help with that too. More than a hundred million people around the world use calm to take care of their minds. Discover what works for you.


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[Assistant] For listeners of the show, Calm is offering an exclusive offer of 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at calm.com slash grid. So go to calm c a l m dot com slash grid for 40% off unlimited access to Calm's entire library. That's calm.com slash grid.


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[Assistant] Look like I am now, really. Did you get any exposure to the drivers that year, Mikasalo and Ukiyo Katayama?


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[Assistant] If you're looking to enjoy a stress free summer, let HelloFresh take care of your mealtimes with their convenient home delivery of delicious, easy to use meal kits that will make you feel like you're eating restaurant quality dinners at home.


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[Assistant] You're sure to find something for everyone, for every day of the week.


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[Assistant] I've tried plenty of HelloFresh's recipes in the past and they never disappoint. All the ingredients were provided for me so there were no last minute trips to the grocery store and the easy step by step guide made it so simple I often had dinner on the table in under 30 minutes. Now that's unheard of in the Clarkson household.


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[Assistant] You can tailor your HelloFresh order to meet your needs, change your delivery days, adjust your dietary requirements, and even skip a week if you want to. Make it work for you. Go to hellofresh.com slash grid16 and use the code grid16 for up to 16 free meals and three free gifts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's HelloFresh.com slash Grid16 for up to 16 meals free and three free gifts. HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit.


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[Assistant] You say he's quicker than last year. When you look at the data, where is he quicker?


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[Assistant] Now, you've mentioned that from Tyrrell, you went to X-Trac, where you were a gearbox designer. You then worked in the DTM with Opel, then Aston Martin in sports cars. What brought you back to Formula One?


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[Assistant] So Toro Rosso, come knocking. I think the first job back in 2014 was Head of Vehicle Performance and did you have to think twice?


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[Assistant] We've got a team like Ferrari, not just down the road, but in global terms just down the road. How difficult is it for you guys to attract technical talent because are they the magnet? Anyone who wants to go and live in Italy and work in Formula One will go to the red team, not the blue and white team.


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[Assistant] It's never too late to develop a new skill or add another string to your bow.


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[Assistant] And if you've always regretted not paying more attention to your language classes at school, Babbel can help you put those regrets to bed.


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[Assistant] With Babbel, you can learn a new language with as little as just 15 minute daily lessons. There are 14 different languages to choose from, including German, French, Spanish and Italian, and it's available as an app or online.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you can log on and take a lesson whenever and wherever you want to and your progress will be synced across all devices.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I love about it is that they design their courses with practical, real-world conversations in mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which wasn't always the case with textbooks of old, was it? They focus on useful vocabulary, so you're learning things you'll actually use in everyday life. And it's all thanks to the fact that their lesson plans are designed by real-life language experts. So you really get that personal touch.


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[Assistant] And their speech recognition technology can even help you improve your accent and pronunciation.


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[Assistant] Right now Babbel is offering our listeners six months free with a purchase of a six month subscription with the promo code GRID. So go to babbel.com forward slash play and use the promo code GRID for an extra six months free. That's babbel, B-A-B-B-E-L dot com forward slash play promo code GRID. Babbel, language learning that works.


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[Assistant] Backbosses, who have been your inspirations in, in history, not just now, growing up?


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[Assistant] Can you give us a little indication as to how your working day is in terms of how much of it is focused on the current car, how much of it is on


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[Assistant] Regulations, we're all talking about the power unit regulations for 2026, aren't we? How much of it is talking to the accountants about the budget cap? I mean, can you just give us, shed a bit of light on that for us?


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[Assistant] That should bring it all together now. It's busy busy busy, I can see that. Do you have time for any hobbies outside of Formula One?


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[Assistant] I mean, your passion for motorbikes, you talked about that earlier.


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[Assistant] I think you're a mad man. When we're talking two wheels, is it two wheels and engines or bicycles as well?


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[Assistant] He's straight talking, isn't he? And given the competitiveness of the midfield this year, whichever team finishes fifth in the Constructors Championship is going to have done a really good job.


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[Assistant] Jodie, that was a wonderful conversation. Thank you very much. You've had a fascinating career to date and your story will no doubt help to inspire the next generation of F1 engineers as well. Thanks for your time and best of luck for the remainder of the season.


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[Assistant] As ever, please remember to send in your thoughts and stories about Jodie. Have you worked with him? Which of his cars to date has been your favourite? Or his bikes for that matter? Send what you've got to me at Tom Clarkson F1 on Twitter or use the hashtag F1 Beyond the Grid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just listen to the latest episode, really insightful from DR, who should have got a Prodrive F1 entry. My two stories about Prodrive are these. I did a factory tour on my 30th birthday and in 2015 one of their Aston's carried my name at Le Mans and I had the crash damaged wing.


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[Assistant] How great is that? Amit's even sent in a picture of his name on the car. That's a great story and lovely to hear from you again, Amit. Next up, how about this from Sean Tumalisa.


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[Assistant] Great interview with DR, he says. Uh, Jensen is one of my favourite drivers in Formula One, and DR is probably Jensen's closest friend. I also liked when he talked about the three aspects of being a 30-point score driver.


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[Assistant] Yes Sean, his 30 point analysis was fascinating. Not many get the full 30, do they? And why not have a think about who would get the full 30 on the current grid? Now that's food for thought, isn't it?


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[Assistant] For now. Well Gavin, you've left that hanging. Imagine if DR came back to Formula One now. It would be quite a story, wouldn't it?


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[Assistant] Well look, thanks for all your messages. We love reading them. We also love reading your suggestions for future guests and your reviews. Leave us one on your podcast app and don't forget to follow us. It's the best way to get our new episodes.


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[Assistant] Well that's pretty much it for this week. If you'd like something else to listen to, why not check out our interviews with Jodie Eggington's AlphaTauri teammates, Pierre Gasly, Yuki Sanoda and Franz Post. There are links to those episodes in the description for this one.


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[Assistant] Thanks everyone for listening. F1 Beyond the Grid is produced by F1 and Audioboom Studios. Until next time, keep it flat out.


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[Assistant] That's more part of me is going to feel a bit disappointed just to not be a full-time driver. Obviously that's, that's what my goal is. So obviously I'll continue to work towards trying to achieve that, but I don't think there's a way that I, I end the year feeling fully fulfilled with how it's gone, to be honest.


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[Assistant] When I go to the go-kart track in New Zealand and I speak to these eight year old kids, I say to them, what do you want to race when you're older? And they're like, Oh, I'd like to be a Formula One driver, but it's impossible. So I'm going to try and do this. And it's like, you're eight years old. You can't tell an eight year old what they can and can't be. And as an eight year old, you can believe whatever you want.


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[Assistant] I certainly did when I was that age, so I think that's also what I'm trying to do at the same time is to show that basically it is possible from New Zealand. It might be very hard, but it's definitely possible.


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[Assistant] Obviously I always want to be driving. And I think the thing is before F1, it had been my whole life, you know, working towards it. And I always expected what it would be like, but you never really know what it's like in F1 until you actually drive. So you're always sort of anticipating. And now that I've actually had the chance to be in it.


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[Assistant] It's definitely a different feeling stepping back. Now I know what it's like. I don't have to, you know, imagine anymore. So actually experience it has obviously been amazing and amazing for my career, but it's a little bit tough to step back.


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[Assistant] Absolutely, honestly yeaah, every, everything about it was, was very special but at the same time, it was such a busy time and also because I knew it was such a short period I was, I was having, I knew I didn't have...


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[Assistant] Make the most of it. And I think the whole time I was in it, I'd never really stepped back to think about what was really happening. It was all just focused on trying to maximize it.


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[Assistant] There was probably like two hours of talks about it. It was very, very likely it was possible because obviously after the incident, we knew the situation with Daniel's hands.


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[Assistant] We weren't a hundred percent sure on whether, on what the exact injury would be or anything like that. I was notified very early.


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[Assistant] About the potential of, of driving, but it wasn't locked in until the drivers briefing. I was in the drivers briefing when, uh, when I found out. So basically.


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[Assistant] I was in the garage with Red Bull Racing watching the session like normal and I saw the crash and I didn't think anything of it because it was quite a small crash. And then about five minutes later, they showed a radio from Daniel and it was him mentioning his hand. And there was like half a second, like a flash of opportunity, possibility that went through me that I thought just maybe in about 20 minutes later.


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[Assistant] My phone buzzed and it's from Alpha Tori and it's basically a message from the team saying.


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[Assistant] It was the longest 20 minutes, you know, thinking what, what was potentially about to unfold. And I knew straight away, like of all the places Zandvoort.


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[Assistant] One practice session, the weather's not good, like all these things are rushing through my head. And I tried to put it aside and just be like, let's just find out what's going to happen. And that took like two hours. Yeah. It wasn't till driver's briefing.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it was really tricky. Um, and it was just a lot, like when I, when I found out I was driving, there was probably an hour of just massive anxiety, um, and nerves knowing what I, what I was about to.


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[Assistant] To have to do once I sat down with the engineers and started going through.


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[Assistant] The operational stuff from the car and everything like that and the run plans and what we were going to do. There was so much work to go through that to be honest from Friday nights until when I got in the car on Saturday, I was just focused on basically what to do and before I knew I was in the car and driving out.


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[Assistant] Yeah, not, not much sleep. Um, really bad sleep as well. I woke up loads. Friday night was rough. Saturday night was a lot better. I think after qualifying, I slept pretty good. I think we did like seven pit stops in the race. Um, there was just so much going on. Yeah, it was the tricky one.


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[Assistant] And that's the hardest part about it is cause for most of them, I didn't really know how many I was going to get. And so, especially for Zandvoort.


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[Assistant] Because of the, the way the weekend was so tough, you know, I knew I, I didn't really have my chance to show something. And obviously it's a little bit stressful thinking if this is my only shot at F1, this sucks basically to have a go and to show something in F1. It wasn't the place to do it. Um, and obviously the race was pretty rough. We ended okay.


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[Assistant] And when it rained again at the end, we were on intermediates and it was probably by like 80% race distance. I started to actually feel real comfortable with the car and be able to be because up until that whole weekend, I really struggled getting comfortable with it. I think the car is so fast. It takes so much commitment that if you.


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[Assistant] Basically have any hesitation about what you're doing, about what inputs you're putting in, with steering, with throttle, with brake, anything like that, if you're not 100% confident to throw the car in.


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[Assistant] You lose so much lap time, you lose so much confidence with, with what's happening and ends. That's I think the difference between you look at a driver like Max, he's just so comfortable all the time. He's been in this car for so much time that now he's.


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[Assistant] I mean, he's always really been like this, but it's so comfortable that yeah, he knows exactly what's going to happen when he, when he does something with the car. And I think that's where you start extracting those last little bits in Formula One.


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[Assistant] It was much better, just as you say, because of the three practice sessions, so.


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[Assistant] The way we set out our run plans, it was very much based around track time doing many laps and.


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[Assistant] After P1, I was a few tenths off, but I knew that I had P2 to close the gap again. And then after P2, still a couple of tenths off and, and knowing that we had that time to get there. And I think that made the biggest difference by qualifying. I actually felt comfortable. I knew exactly where we were with the car, what we're changing. Yeah, a much, much better feeling than, than Sanport.


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[Assistant] I mean, I think it definitely helps. It's more of a weekend where for everybody it's a bit different and because I'd never really driven.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It doesn't really matter whether we're high or low downforce for me, it's I'm learning the car basically from scratch. So I think in that sense, yes, it was potentially better and I think it helps for the weekend, but, um, I think it was just having all that practice time really made the biggest difference.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Daniel was very helpful in Zandvoort before he went away for his surgery. He was still at the track on Friday nights and I spoke to him. It was, you know, obviously very, very nice about it and, um.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also Max, I would say, especially Monza, Max basically said to try and enjoy it, not to overthink it, just basically be as relaxed as you can be. To be fair, he's always been really good to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To be fast, you're basically perfectly on the limit everywhere. On braking, on turning, on corner speeds, on exits, you're on the absolute limit of grip. And when you put too much pressure on yourself or you overthink things or try, yeah, like you say, try too hard, you just overstep that limit and it becomes very difficult. You also, operationally with Formula One, you're changing so many things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're putting too much pressure on yourself, if you're very results focused and basically trying to think about exactly where you need to be, then you're putting more pressure on yourself and you're not potentially, you're struggling to make all the switch changes that you need to make. And yeah, it's just, uh, something that if you're relaxed, feeling comfortable, it's a lot easier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically the opposite procedure that I have in Japan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If a super formula to start a Formula One car. So all the practice starts we do, obviously I'm a lot more relaxed and it's, it's a lot easier and I can do the start procedure fine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But on the grids, you know, it was my first maybe proper start in F1. I wasn't, I mean, I was off the back of the grids. It didn't really matter, but in Monza, I'm in a decent position and it's quite high pressure. And unless I think about the full procedure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Naturally, basically I naturally just, you know, resort to my old procedure basically in Japan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a tricky question because at the same time, all of this, you know, this, this stint that I had in Formula One and what I'm trying to achieve.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is ultimately it's a full-time seat. That's what I'm trying to work towards. So yes, it was a, it was a really good feeling knowing that potentially I'd, I'd made a big step in trying to achieve that, but I also knew before Singapore that I wasn't driving.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Next year, I knew that basically I wasn't, I wasn't going to get the seats and I found out before qualifying. So before the weekend really started, it wasn't great. So, and it was tough because you know, the media that nobody knew that and the media didn't know. So after qualifying, we had a good qualifying and the media is really positive and basically saying all these great things about what chances I have of driving next year, but I knew I wasn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think it was a similar feeling after the race. I just, I knew that I wasn't going to be in next year. So it definitely took away from what it would have felt like. How did that bad news affect your motivation? I mean, it definitely didn't. The thing is motivation has never been an issue. And I think for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most drivers in Formula One, if you're at the top of your game, you have all the motivation in the world. So for me, it wasn't like it added to it. I've, I've always been extremely motivated. So it was frustration, but yeah, it's a tricky one. The hardest thing was dealing with all the positivity afterwards and all the talk about knowing the reality, knowing that I wasn't. Yeah. I knew I knew exactly what was going to happen, but I couldn't tell anybody.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I knew Japan, basically. I knew we were going to do Japan, but I didn't know about Kesah. So I knew that we were going to have Japan, which was, which was really cool because I'd driven there this year and so I think that was exciting to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's all positive and it was all nice things and, and basically, you know, this, it obviously helps your, your future and helps your chance of driving in the future. But for me, you know, it's all about, it's all about getting a seat. So it doesn't really make too much of a difference to me unless, unless I have a, a