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[Assistant] Life in the SEAL Teams always seems to revolve around fate or destiny or the hand of God. Why do some men live and others die?


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[Assistant] Why were some men saved that day? Did God have a different plan for us?


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[Assistant] What about the crew and passengers of Stray 59? Surely their families would have wanted them longer in their lives.


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[Assistant] They were all brave and honorable men, all worthy of a full and prosperous life. I think about them often.


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[Assistant] And combat in Iraq and Afghanistan became a daily activity. I thought a lot about Stray 59.


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[Assistant] I can only hope that the sacrifice of the men aboard stray 59 saved lives, lives of men and women who have no idea that their destiny rested with a plane that took off from QB airfield in 1981 and never return. May God rest at their souls.


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[Assistant] Real world missions and regular missions in the military. There's always some level of risk.


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[Assistant] July 1983, here we go. July 1983 was one of those tough moments. As I stood before the commanding officer, I thought my career as a Navy SEAL was over.


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[Assistant] I had just been relieved of my SEAL squadron, fired for trying to change the way my squadron was organized, trained, and conducted missions. There were some magnificent officers and enlisted men in the organization, some of the most professional warriors I had ever been around. However, much of the culture was still rooted in the Vietnam era, and I thought that it was time for a change.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As I was to find out, change is never easy, particularly for the person in charge.


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[Assistant] Fortunately, even though I was fired, my commanding officer allowed me to transfer to another SEAL team, but my reputation as a SEAL officer was severely damaged. Everywhere I went, other officers and enlisted men knew I had failed, and every day there were whispers and subtle reminders that maybe I wasn't up to the task of being a SEAL.


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[Assistant] At that point in my career, I had two options. Quit and move on to civilian life, which seemed like the logical choice in the light of my recent officer fitness report.


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[Assistant] Or weather the storm and prove to others and myself that I was a good SEAL officer. I chose the latter.


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[Assistant] Here you are wanting to be a good seal. And you...


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[Assistant] When you look back at that, you know, this is, this is a, a subject that I've talked about a lot because, well, uhm, there's a book called About Face by Colonel David Hackworth and, and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, at the end of the Vietnam War, he went on a TV program called Issues and Answers and said, we're going to lose this war if we don't change the way we're fighting it. And he was drummed out of the army in another couple of months.


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[Assistant] And my debate is always, you know, he was a golden child in the army at that point and would have absolutely been up for brigade command and division command and he would have been in charge of tens of thousands, if not more, and could have really influenced the way the war was fought.


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[Assistant] But he spoke up and you know, that was it. Made, made some enemies and because people, you know, and I work with a lot of businesses and people, this happens in business where people, they want to speak up. They see something that maybe could be done better, different.


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[Assistant] And of course there's always a, a particular line that I make. Look, if someone's doing something that's illegal, immoral, or unethical, okay, we're not doing that, we got it.


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[Assistant] A lot of times, and I wrote about this in Leadership Strategy and Tactics, I called it Conform to Influence because when I was in my first CEO platoon,


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[Assistant] I was, I wanted to be all hardcore. And so it was me and I was wearing a rucksack on the O course and wearing a rucksack out on the runs and, and I was a new guy and I thought I was being cool and, and, and hard and getting ready for war.


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[Assistant] But my platoon was kinda looking at me like, you know, who do you think you are? You're truly trying to prove, hey Rambo. And I realized, oh, I need to be a part of this team.


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[Assistant] If I'm gonna have influence over them, do I want them to train harder? Yea, I do, absolutely. But if they don't like me, if I'm not part of the team, they're not gonna listen to anything I say. As a matter of fact, I'm ostracizing myself. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know this is a, it seems like you went through this situation where, you know, you held up your hand and made a call, I'm gonna go in this direction or I think we should go in this direction and didn't work out. The other part of this is I always say, if you're doing the right things for the right reasons,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'll win in the end, but it sometimes can take a long time before you, you quote, win. And you might take some tactical losses along the way, but if you're doing the right things, the right reasons, eventually things should go your way. When you reflect on, on whatever went down at that command and the way it turned out, what did you learn from it?


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[Assistant] So that, that, the idea, that was real foreign to me when people started talking about how much this trip is going to cost.


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[Assistant] I would be like, well we're in the military, what are you talking about?


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[Assistant] Yeah, you, you mentioned so far a bunch of different relationships that you have had and built and.


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[Assistant] You can't, there's no possible way to overestimate the amount of ROI you get on having good relationships with people and treat them good and take care of them.


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[Assistant] I had my, uh, when I was a task unit commander, my two platoon commanders come into me and we're out at, we're out at an island and we've got a bunch of paperwork due to the commanding officer, you know, the serialized inventory and the qualifications of the various guys and all this and they,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know, they tried to, they tried to capitalize on my warlike nature by telling me, you know, we're training for war. And I said, Hey guys, we're going to do all this paperwork. We need it turned in perfectly. And we're going to do it before anyone else does because we got to have a good relationship with the boss. And if the boss doesn't think I can get paperwork turned in on time, why is he going to trust me to go out and run operations?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From there you, now you go to, to XO Seal Team 1.


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[Assistant] Uhm, you did one operation there which was the recovery of a Navy aircraft that had crashed in 1948.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's uh, that, that whole story is sounds, it's almost supernatural story. There's some other things that you talk about in the book worth reading.


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[Assistant] You, you, so you get done with that and you do, uh, is that when you rolled into being a task unit commander?


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[Assistant] The, the MEO, the Maritime Interdiction Operations, those were, I did those in, what was it, 99, well I guess I did some in the mid 90's. Uhm, but yeaah, those were real world, I got to lock and load my weapon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What else did you guys do on that? Didn't you guys, didn't you guys do some, hit some islands or something as well?


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[Assistant] That's, that's pretty, uh, awesome experience though for you, and I know that I was a rare guy that volunteered to do ARG platoons, cause there was actually missions that happened, you know, the guys that were, the guys that were in the SEAL teams that were in Somalia,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A bunch of them came off ARG platoons, and I was like, okay, if that's where I gotta go, and so I volunteered for ARG platoons, but where it really helped me out was that I was working with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was working with the Marine Corps, and we were, you know, building relationships with the Marine Corps, but just understanding, look, when you're in a seal platoon in the 90s, you didn't understand anything about the rest of the military. It was like, hey, I got a 16 man platoon, we'll take on the world.


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[Assistant] Then I learned, oh, this is a battalion. This is how this is going to work. This is, this is the way we can work together with them. This is the support that we can give them. So it was very useful and very helpful for me. I was very like, I was a calm guy. So I, I made all the comms plan and learned how to, how to communicate with all the different forces. It was very, very helpful for me to, to do those. I did two, our deployments.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And learned a lot about the conventional forces, which was real lucky. Uhm.


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[Assistant] You get done with that and then now you finally get your time in Monterrey. Right.


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[Assistant] And the book is called Spec Ops, Case Studies and Special Operations Warfare Theory and Practice. I'm going to jump into this a little bit. Carl von Clausewitz in his book on war noted the defensive form of warfare is intrinsically stronger than the offense. It contributes resisting power, the ability to preserve and protect oneself. Thus the defense generally has a negative aim, that of resisting the enemy's will.


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[Assistant] If we are to mount an offensive to impose our will, we must develop enough force to overcome the inherent superiority of the enemy's defense.


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[Assistant] Koswitz's theory of war states that to, quote, defeat stronger, the stronger form of warfare, an army's best weapon is superior numbers.


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[Assistant] People always ask me, I've covered just about every


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[Assistant] Well, I've covered a lot of war theory, and I never cover Klauswitz, and one of the reasons I never cover Klauswitz, or haven't yet, I've covered a little bit, but, is because I like Liddell Hart better. Of course. And, and, so apparently you feel the same way.


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[Assistant] Continuing on with your book, no soldier would argue the benefit of superior numbers, but if they were the most important factor, how could 69 German commandos have defeated a Belgian force of 650 soldiers protected by the largest, most extensive fortress of its time, the fort at Ibn Amal?


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[Assistant] Which is a special operations paratroopers landing with gliders on this. And as you just said, 69 German paratroopers took on this massive belgian force and won.


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[Assistant] How can Special Operations Force that has inferior numbers and the disadvantage of attacking the stronger form of warfare gain superiority over the enemy? To understand this paradox is to understand Special Operations.


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[Assistant] Relative superiority. Relative superiority is a concept crucial to the theory of special operations. Simply stated, relative superiority is a condition that exists when an attacking force, generally smaller, gains a decisive advantage over a larger or well defended enemy.


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[Assistant] The value of which the concept of relative superiority lies in its ability to illustrate which positive forces influence the success of a mission and to show how the frictions of war affect the achievement of the goal.


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[Assistant] This section will define the three basic properties of relative superiority and describe how those properties are revealed in combat. And then you talk, you talk about relative superiority as achieved at a pivotal moment in the engagement.


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[Assistant] Once relative superiority is achieved, it must be sustained in order to guarantee victory and if relative superiority is lost, it is difficult to regain again.


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[Assistant] And then you go on to explain what you already mentioned, the six principles of special operations, simplicity, security, repetitions, surprise, speed, and purpose.


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[Assistant] And the book, what this book consists of is case studies that describe and show how all these things come into play. So that's, you made pretty good time of your session up there in Monterey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that when you did the project where you were kind of looking at the next generation of warfare?


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[Assistant] Before, I jumped over a part when you were CEO of SEAL Team 3, uh, one thing I used to tell guys all the time was, if we were doing an op, if we were doing a water op, I'd say, hey, if you're in the water, it's a real world op. Because if you're in the water,


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[Assistant] You can die. Period. And you about died. About died. At SEAL Team 3 as the, as the commanding officer up in, what was it, Morro Bay? Morro Bay. Capsized in a rib.


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[Assistant] You know, like, I look at your life and I think, yeah, he's, you know, really had some good luck in his life, but also reading your book, I think, damn.


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[Assistant] You had a parachute ask, so you take over the, you take over the what's called Naval Special Warfare Group 1, which is the person that's in charge of all the SEAL teams on the West Coast and all their training, manning and equipping and, and overseeing and giving them guidance. And you go out on a parachute jump for whatever reason, cause that's what we do. And you, you,


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[Assistant] So now you're, and this is a, he said something that reminded me, so I've worked for Aaron Maguire, I was his aide, not at this time, but one thing that he had gotten when September 11th happened, he was working in acquisitions at the Pentagon or something like that, and he told me, you know, his attitude was, okay,


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[Assistant] I want to go to a team, I want to deploy, which is what every team guy thinks, but he just said, you know, okay, well, this is my Foxhole acquisitions. I'm going to get money for the teams. That's what I'm going to do. And that was sort of the same.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Attitude that it looked like you had. It was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. That's going to do it to the best of my ability. You, you, you do talk about, um, there's, there's a hostage situation. Was it Martin and Gronk?


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[Assistant] Well, what was interesting, and you know, get the book, it's fascinating how you put that together, but one thing that I found interesting about it, and it's a good lesson learned for people is,


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[Assistant] It was something that was kind of on the, you know, on the back burner and people weren't focused on it. And here you had two Americans that were being held hostage and


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[Assistant] Like I said, it was on the back burner and you sorta became a champion for, hey, we need to do something about this.


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[Assistant] One person can make a huge difference, and, and you can be, you can be a champion for a cause and have a real impact, which is, and you know, it's not like you were the senior guy there or anything like that, but you, you grabbed onto this cause, you knew it was the right thing to do, and led it. I thought that was a, that's a powerful thing to think about.


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[Assistant] When, in between being the deputy JSOC commander and leaving the White House, does that, did you go to SOC year? I did. So you did a tour at SOC year, was that like your standard two year tour?


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[Assistant] You, you, you throw out, uhm, in, in Sea Stories, you give an example, which I think is a...


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[Assistant] Well, it's a pretty important story. There's a mission going on. You're in the uh, you're in the talk, the tactical operations center. And here we go, I'm gonna go to the book. This is from Sea Stories. Unbeknownst to me, Lieutenant Colonel Bill Coltrip.


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[Assistant] The C Squadron commander and Colonel Jim Hickey from 1st Brigade, 4th Infantry Division had maneuvered farther up the dirt road from Wolverine 1, which was one target, to another small house designated Wolverine 2.


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[Assistant] As I watched the ISR feed from the Westcam and listened to the radios, the visual and verbal didn't match up. Wolverine 1 appeared reasonably quiet, but the radio calls from Coltrip sounded like they were moving rapidly on a target.


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[Assistant] It sounds like they're on target, Lee. I don't see any movement outside the house. I motioned to the jock non-commissioned officer who sat at the end of the long wooden table that made a horseshoe around the ISR screen. So you're sitting there watching this thing unfold. ISR is what's, what's the feed that's coming from the aircraft overhead. He was also on the headset seeing what I was seeing, which was nothing.


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[Assistant] I raised my hands in the universal sign of WTF.


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[Assistant] And he shrugged and called back, ISR is on the target, I don't know where the squadron is sir. I hated to call the squadron in the middle of an operation.


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[Assistant] And that's an important point, um, you know, from a, from, from my perspective, you know, I was a platoon commander and assault force commander in a platoon and then a tasking commander and


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[Assistant] The fact that you weren't jumping on there, hey where are you at? What's going on? What's going on? Is, is...


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[Assistant] And so here you are, you say, I hated to call the squadron in the middle of an operation. It's the last thing any tactical guy on the ground wants, a call from his boss, sitting warm and comfortable in a jock 50 miles away from the action. Still, it was our responsibility to manage the quick reaction force and the medical evacuation if something went wrong on target. That was hard to do if you didn't have good situational awareness of the mission.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the truth was, I was curious as to whether this new lead was panning out, so they were tracking a lead.


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[Assistant] Somewhat, somewhat reluctantly, I pushed the talk, I pushed the talk button and reached out to Coltrip. Bill, are you on target?


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[Assistant] Yes sir, culture responded somewhat excitedly. We don't see you on ISR.


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[Assistant] There was a pause on Coltrip's end. Sir, we are on Wolverine 2, just down the road from the original target. And we have jackpot.


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[Assistant] Jackpot. Jackpot. Jackpot was the code word meaning they had captured the objective. At first I assumed culture meant case, is that who you were looking for? But suddenly it occurred to me


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Big jackpot culture fanciered and going uhm, as this goes forward, big jackpot was Sadang.


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[Assistant] So these guys had just captured Saddam. Uhm, and I was actually, I was in Iraq at the time. And, and so we had found out


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[Assistant] I think we had found out, we found out really quickly, one of the guys that we were working, one of the OGA guys we were working out with was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you, when you were running that earlier, I mentioned you were running this project of like looking at the future of warfare and what we could do. And I was part of that. So I was...


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[Assistant] And there was like five of us and you were basically taking us and sending us to all these


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[Assistant] Uh, very cool. Probably some of the best schools I ever went to. I went to lock picking and car stealing and just all these really cool stool, uh, uh, schools to get us prepared to do, like you said, operations from a totally different perspective. And I remember I, I sat through your brief a couple times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you would brief, you know, some senior officers and you'd say, hey listen, in the SEAL teams we do direct action, but


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[Assistant] We have TLAMs now and so do we really need to do direct shot or are we really going to have to do direct action missions when we've got TLAMs and we've got


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we've got, you know, UAV capabilities are coming on board. And, and you know, I remember like I said, I was a young guy and thinking, okay, well, I need to, I need to transfer to this new format. We're not going to do direct action anymore. I think the next time I saw you, I was in Baghdad. You came down to Camp Jenny Posey where we were, we were,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was jocked up literally about to go out on my whatever 50th or whatever direct action mission and, and, uh, I thought it was funny. I kind of smiled to myself said, well, it looks like we're still doing it. It looks like we're still doing it sir. Um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But this, this mission got Saddam and then, Amanda, you, you do a, it's a very interesting perspective. I mean, how, how, how crazy is it to sit here and talk to you? You were interacting with Saddam when he got captured.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you detailed it in the book, but I mean just some, some high level thoughts. What was I like detailing with this freaking horrible, horrible, sadistic person?


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[Assistant] So I was there too at that time. The last OP that I did, well we did a couple more, but the last big OP that I did.


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[Assistant] Was going after Yakubi, which was, uhm, Sodder's, one of Sodder's lieutenants, and that, that really made things bad really quickly. Uhm, so, you're the, you're the deputy at JSOC, and how, how, are you just doing like a port in Starboard, in Iraq?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When did you take over as, uh, Commander, JSOC? Uh, 2008.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A drone flying high overhead captured, captured the scene as the four Helos crested a large berm separating Iraq from Syria. It was broad daylight and there was no hiding from view. If the Syrian air defense detected Helos either visually or on radar, they would immediately open fire with surface to air missiles or anti-aircraft guns. The Syrians were our allies, but not our friends. One minute to touchdown.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From above, the two Black Hawk gunships took the lead and immediately began to separate, one taking the north side of Gidea's compound, the other the south. They would provide gunfire support for the assaulters. The view from the drone shifted away from the approaching helos and onto the compound.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The next Hilo is seconds behind executing the same aerial maneuver, landing just feet from the first aircraft. Outside the wall, the last two Hilos set down, the soldiers rushing off the aircraft and taking up security positions to ensure that none of Gidea's men escape the assault.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shots fired, shots fired. The operators inside the courtyard spread out, sweeping forward toward Gidea. The rounds flying both ways. There was no way out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One by one, Gidea's men fell and within minutes the fight was over. Cowering unarmed in the small tent in the middle of the compound were several young children and a woman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Picking up the body of Abu Ghadiya, the assaulters exited the compound, boarded the helos, and within three minutes, were back in Iraq. The total time of the mission? Seventeen minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you think these operations are just going to show up on your door and like, okay, cool, we'll just go execute it. Every one of them is a, is, is like a soap opera to try and get it to put together. You have to kind of force these operations to happen. And, and so you've got all that going on. And then here comes this, um, the mayor of Alabama and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Navy assets, chips, and logistics for all those pieces. This is a massive operation and again, I love your tone of voice when you read it in the audiobook.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You keep, you keep saying, it's a lifeboat. Like, it's almost comical. And I just went to the UDT Seal Museum in Fort Pierce, Florida, where they have the lifeboat. They've got it there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Couple things, number one, the authority and trust that you had with the guys on the ground, which is the mark of a, of the leader that you want to work for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The one that's not micromanaging, the one that trusts the guys on the ground, General Patton said the, what'd he say, the commander on the ground is always right. And that seemed to be your attitude all the time. The trust that you had with the guys on the ground, uhm, and what was phenomenal,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember thinking to myself, man, if that happened in 1994,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How much different, do you think it would have been a lot different?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I call that the iterative decision making process. That was one thing that I, as I was in charge of things and some kind of an operation would come up or even if it was like a totally tactical thing of what should we do right now?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would always make really small decisions really quickly and it made people think I was very decisive because I would make decisions very quickly. They wouldn't recognize how small decisions I've made and then I would just adapt and adjust them as needed as we move forward. But I like the fact that you use the iterative decision making process taking small steps to actually put some


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To make it easier for the boss to make a final decision, because look, we're already, just, all you need to do is pull the trigger, the weapon's there, the site is on, we're ready to do this, just say go and we'll go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You talk about, you know, again, these, these relationships and here you had Van Hoosier on the ground who's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who's like the epic seal officer, right? He was a, he was in Vietnam as a Marine and uhm, you know, lost his leg due to a parachute accident and is just a badass.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and here you are, you have, so you've got him below you in the chain of command, where you've got this awesome trust, and then up the chain of command, you've got Mullen and the chairman of the, I mean, Mullen, Admiral Mullen, the chairman of the chief of staff, and he trusts you, so this is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, 17 minutes and how many, as you said, thousands of operations were conducted that, you know, look, we all, we all know some of them go bad and sideways and that's awful, but the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean the batting average of success was overwhelmingly, it's actually incredible when you think about it. And, and, so this, this, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This op tempo and this kind of being successful on a regular basis and building that leadership capital and, and kind of, I mean, I guess you, in my opinion, or the way it looks, the final operation that you, you cover in Sea Stories is, is the first one that I started off with, which like I said is, I guess it's,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Been 10 years. Yeaah, it's been 10 years and, and, I mean if that's not the most famous US special operations mission, I'm not sure what is, but it's Neptune's spear, uhm, the raid that killed Bin Laden and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, you gotta, you know, the perspective that you give, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The intelligence gathered the preparation, the secrecy. I mean, you got one part where you're talking about, I forget who it is. You're talking about maybe it's your XO or, or your deputy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About what's going on, the professionalism in every department. You go through and kind of talk about the decision making process and the discussion to get to these decision points. And the conversations and the relationships between you and Admiral Mullen and Secretary Gates and the CIA officials. And then the President.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who's, who, who has to understand and be comfortable with this and the, I mean, this is a tough, this is a freaking hard choice to make.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Much lower risk in terms of US troops and you know, like to, to say, oh yeah, yeah, of all these options, we're going to take the one that puts the US troops in the, in the biggest risk. Um, just do an incredible job of, of spelling that out in the book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The pilots, their skills and then of course, you know, you got the seals on the ground, the best guys in the world, the best of the best. Uhm, what a, what a, what a, what an incredible story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, no, actually it's in seastores. It's the story about where, where you, uh, get in trouble. You get kind of caught by your dad. Well, not caught by your dad, but you get caught. You, you, you tried to infiltrate a military, what was it, uh, an ammo storage thing. You, you, you know, you think you're James Bond or whoever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you infiltrate, you got a cap gun on your, on your, you know, your six shooter cap gun with you. And, and you, you infiltrate a freaking military compound with your buddy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then they chase you out of there, they're coming, they've got dogs looking for you minutes. It's like a serious operation. And at some point you drop your pistol, you get back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, you know, you get away with it. Get away with it.


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[Assistant] Your dad says, hey, your dad, you know, next day or whatever it is, you know, dad says, hey, someone tried to infiltrate, you know anything about that?


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[Assistant] And it seems like you could tell by the look on his face that he knew that you lied to him. You suspected you went to bed that night, you pulled down your covers to get in bed and there's your, there's your gun. So he knew.


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[Assistant] You talk a lot about integrity and, you know, telling the truth. And I think, you know, when you're, when you're talking about, um, discussing these things up the chain of command and it's, you know, I would


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You gotta tell the truth about what's happening, but you develop that kind of trust with your whole chain of command from the Secretary of Defense to the President so that when you say something


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[Assistant] They actually believe what you're saying and that might, that might seem really, uh, like a, like a, like an insignificant thing. But if you think about what's riding on this operation for America, for the world,


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[Assistant] If they don't have that like legitimate, pure trust in what you're telling them,


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[Assistant] I can't imagine, I can't imagine making a decision giving the go ahead to someone that I don't deeply and truly trust. 100%.


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[Assistant] How many times had you guys or you seen various units get spun up to go get bin Laden?


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[Assistant] What was the timeline from the first time you talked to Admiral Mullins that he said he had to lead and execute?


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[Assistant] Like I said, you gotta get the book for the details and all leading up to this, but there's one little part I wanted to cover.


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[Assistant] The mission's be actually being executed, so you're in this, in the, in the operation center.


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[Assistant] And here we go, inside the jock, I was getting updates from Van Hoosier and Thompson.


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[Assistant] Sir, the squadron commander is on the radio. Van Hoosier alerted me. The voice was unmistakable. Deep, calm, in control. This is Romeo 6-6. He paused and you could hear a small shutter in his voice. For God and country, Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo.


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[Assistant] The hunt for the most wanted man in the world was over. We had gotten Bin Laden.


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[Assistant] The jock immediately quieted down. Van Hoosier was right. We still had a long way to go.


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[Assistant] I had no sense of relief, no internal exhilaration, no feeling of victory. The mission was not over.


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[Assistant] When I read that, I just thought to myself,


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[Assistant] I mean, what a freaking professional, uh, Van Hoosier. And you could see, I mean, here it is, you know, the, the, the ultimate mission, capturing the ultimate bad guy or killing the ultimate bad guy and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And everyone's all excited and Van Hoosier's just on point. Just, just no deviation. Which he always was. Freaking outstanding. And it's interesting too because


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[Assistant] You call back and say, yep, we got, we got Geronimo, we got it done. And then you realize, wait, is he dead or alive?


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[Assistant] Uhm, I mean, like I said, you go into what happened after that. It's just an incredible story. I mean, obviously it's an incredible story.


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[Assistant] Get the book to check that stuff out. Uh, before, before I close out the book, See Stories, there's one, one.


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[Assistant] One other little section I wanted to cover, it's from a, it's from a chapter called The Greatest, The Next Greatest Generation. And this, this takes, this section takes place in 2007.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We mentioned that you were in Europe for a time. You were in charge of all special operations forces in Europe and Africa, but that means you're actually over in Germany most of the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in this part, you're visiting wounded soldiers on their way home from Iraq and Afghanistan. So on the way home from Iraq and Afghanistan, oftentimes the soldiers, the wounded would be, would stop in Germany at Landstuhl.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you would go there to visit these wounded guys. And uhm, you talk about one of these, one of these cases here. So you're going in to visit. Going to the book. The doctor nodded and I pushed the door open and entered. Lying on the bed, completely naked, was a young soldier, not more than 25 years old.


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[Assistant] His body was swollen from the impact of the blast. Burns covered the upper half of his torso and below his waist he had lost half of one leg and much of the other.


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[Assistant] His face was so badly damaged that his eyes were almost sealed shut and his lips burned clean off.


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[Assistant] Life-saving tubes extended from just about every orifice in his body and monitors around the room beeped continuously. Sir, he can't talk but he can hear you and he likes to engage people, the doctor said. I slowly walked up beside the bed. Hey partner, my name's Admiral McRaven. I could see him acknowledge my presence. You look like shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He managed to smile and reached out his hand toward the nightstand. The doctor grabbed a clipboard and handed it to the soldier.


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[Assistant] He likes to write out his responses, the doctor said. Pulling the attached pen from its holder, he scribbled on the notepad, you should see the other guy. I laughed and he chuckled with me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Looks like they're taking good care of you. Is there anything you need? Once again, he grabbed the clipboard and wrote a beer.


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[Assistant] The doctor looked at me and reluctantly shook his head. Well, I'll tell you what.


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[Assistant] When you get back to the states, get well and the beer's on me. He just nodded. I was struggling with what to say. I had been in these situations hundreds of times before and all you could do is make small talk. Normally I knew the soldier or his unit and I had something more significant to offer. I walked around to the doctor's side of the bed. Is he a Marine or a soldier? I whispered to the doctor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sir, I don't know. I'm just the attending physician. I can find out for you though. No, not necessarily. Not necessary. Walking back around to my side of the bed, I leaned over to the young man and asked, are you a Marine or a soldier?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The soldiers are always marching, always carrying a rucksack, always in the line of fire.


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[Assistant] As I glanced at the young man's battered body, I wondered if he fully understood the degree of his injuries.


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[Assistant] He noticed me assessing his physical condition and suddenly a look of defiance came across his swollen face. He rolled in my direction and then wrote slowly in capital letters, I will be infantry again.


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[Assistant] So that's uhm, you know, like you said, it's something that you witnessed hundreds of times and, and one thing that you write in the books and I've heard you talk about it as well is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With all these wounded soldiers that you've, you know, soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines that you've gone and talked to, every single one of them, every single one of them has just wanted to get back to their unit and get back in the fight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know I had, uhm, before you jump into that, I had one of my guys, Ryan Job, who, uh, was shot in the face. He was blinded. Uhm, and I'm talking to him, you know, he's back, he's at, I think he's at Bethesda, and I'm talking to him from Ramadi, and, you know, he's begging me to come back.


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[Assistant] And he says, you know, sir, I'll get my pig. You know, he's a pig gunner. He's a 60 gunner. He goes, sir, give me my pig. Don't worry. I might not be able to see him, but I can smell him. I'll get him. And, and you know, there's just the, the attitude and same thing with the first guy that I had that got badly wounded.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We know if he's gonna keep his leg, but he was shot up bad. He's on morphine or whatever he's on and we'd have been in Ramadi for a very short period of time at this point.


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[Assistant] And I get to the, to the, to the, uh, Charlie Med, the field medical area. And I roll in there and he's, you know, he, he holds out his hand and I grab his hand and he like pulls me in close.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he just whispers, he's, you know, sir, let me stay. I'll sweep up. Just please let me stay. Don't send me home. And you know, here's a guy that's a freaking incredible athlete, incredible guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we don't know if he's gonna keep his leg, and the only thing he cares about is, you know, can I stay? Right.


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[Assistant] Outstanding. That's uhm, and that's, you know, again, a lot of the book is obviously focuses around special operations and, and as you point out, and as we both know, the, the, the sacrifices made by the entire, the entirety of the, the US military, uhm, is just, it's, it's incredible. It's incredible. And the bravery,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You end up as the bullfrog in the SEAL teams, which is, which means that you at however many, maybe you had it for a year or two. I'm not sure, but that means you had more time in the SEAL teams than anybody else in the SEAL teams at that time on active duty. Right. How long did you, how long are you the bullfrog for?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, uhm, person that you shared the, the, uh, bullfrog with. Yep. Yeah, he was my, he was my platoon commander. There you go. You mentioned, you know, earlier today we were talking and you, you mentioned something else about the Trident and, and who, who owns that Trident?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something I wanted to ask you about because you mentioned it real quick.


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[Assistant] You know, you were talking about, hey, we had a lot of success and we sat here and, you know, you and I nodded our head talking about how great, you know, we had been and the special operations community and I talked about, I talked about this incredible batting average, right? And all that. And then, you know, you were saying, uhm, things always didn't go well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When things went bad, you know, and I, uh,


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[Assistant] I've had things go horribly, horribly wrong, and uhm, you know, it's one of those things that really stings.


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[Assistant] Do you have any, uhm, advice or any stories where you remember where something went wrong and you had to...


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[Assistant] You actually did the commencement speech at the University of Texas before you retired. I did.


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[Assistant] I was about to say, you're a, you're a shining example, uh, of the, of the fact that the zero defect, uh, attitude is wrong, right? You know, you have that zero defect attitude of, hey, if, if someone fails one time, get rid of them, or if someone makes a mistake, or if they're not perfect, get rid of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Early on in my last deployment to Ramadi, I had a, had a blue on blue, had a fratricide take place. And, you know, it's a freaking complete and utter nightmare. And a friendly Iraqi soldier got killed, one of my guys got wounded, several other friendly Iraqis got wounded. Uhm, and the army,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The army, working in Ramadi, was kinda like, hey, you know, like, it happens, almost. But that's not a very special operations attitude, uhm, you know, at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Van Hoosier happened to be coming through country at the time. And, uh, he happened to stop by.


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[Assistant] Shark base at the time, which was my little base and, and you know, he was a Marine in Vietnam and he said, Hey Jaco, I was in way city and he goes, and I wasn't, he goes, I didn't fight in way city, but I was there afterwards and


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[Assistant] It's urban combat, and this shit is hard, and...


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[Assistant] And then, you know, uh, a few months later, Mark Lee's a first steel killed in Iraq. And you know, I'm again, just heartbroken and, and crushed and Admiral McGuire who I, you know, was his aid for 13 months and called me up, you know, and said, Hey,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You gotta get back out there. You're doing the right thing. And, and that kind of support from these senior leaders at that time, you know, it's a very similar, uh, situation for me. But, uhm, you know, it's real easy too. Real easy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To pile on, right? To say, oh, you had a blue on blue, what the hell's wrong with you?


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[Assistant] Real easy to do that. It's really easy. Oh, you lost a guy. What are you guys doing? Real easy to take that approach and both those guys, you know, just just took the approach of actually understanding what we were going through. Hey man, there's we're we're in we're getting in firefights every single day here. You think we're going to make it through a six month deployment and not take any casualties like that's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't even know, I don't even know why I would think that. Like it's a crazy thought.


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[Assistant] But, uh, another good leadership lesson, and it's just, you know, hey, people are gonna have things happen. People are gonna make mistakes. Things are gonna go wrong. What are you gonna do? You gonna, you gonna pile on?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Especially somebody that's already freakin' tearing themselves up, we're gonna pile on, and I had to do the same thing, you know, with, uh, with platoon commanders, you know? Leif Babin, I mean, he's, he's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Calling me up, you know, it's another, he's calling me up, hey, we just, you know, guy got shot, Ryan Job shot, he's hit bad, I don't know if he's gonna live. The army's in a gunfight right now, Jocko. We need to go help him. And I'm like, execute. You know, don't, didn't run it up the chain, the army's, we're side by side with these guys, and he ends up losing Mark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's like, are we gonna pile on these guys, or are we gonna support, they're making a freaking hard decision, they're making the best possible decision they can make at the time, and, and that's what we have to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and if you're a repeat offender, that means you're probably not capable of doing the job and we're gonna fire you and that's the way it works. So you end up retiring after 37 years. Uhm, uh, I guess there was nowhere else for you to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is, I guess it's, I have to check with Echo Charles, my, my kind of, uh, what is it, pop culture guy. Is it safe to say that's a, uh, a viral speech? Viral. Okay. Might be even iconic. Oh, iconic. Give the iconic make your bed speech. Did you know, at what point did you figure out you were going to be the chancellor there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, uh, you like brushed over the fact earlier that you got diagnosed with cancer and, you know.


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[Assistant] Uh, and in the book you talk about kind of what that, or one of the books you talk about what that experience was like and, and it, it seemed like it was something that you could kind of, uh, suppress for a while, but it ended up, what, in 2017 kind of catching up with you a bit?


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[Assistant] And so hero code, the latest one before we close out, uh, what, what brought about the hero code?


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[Assistant] Oh, it takes a lot more strength to forgive someone than it does to hold a grudge. It absolutely does.


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[Assistant] I often worry to, worry uhm, because you know sometimes we have whole sections of society or countries or peoples that, that have a grudge. And you know, I look at it as two parts, like you need, one side needs to say I'm sorry and the other side needs to forgive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's very difficult to get two human beings, just, just two human beings to do that. And when you have, you know, a collective lot of grievances from two different opposing sides,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the latest book, the hero code. And as you were, as you and I were talking, as we, as we started off, I've written these kids books and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The kids books have a code, the warrior kid code. And I mean, it's just the, the similarities are, are awesome. It's awesome to see, uh, uh, I know you didn't read this, but, but you know, uh, you know, it talks about humility and staying calm and treating people with respect and trying to help and protect people. And it's just.


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[Assistant] These are the things that, that we need to do, and uhm,


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[Assistant] Yeah, I appreciate the fact that you, you put this, this latest book out to, to give people a little guidance, a little something to strive for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He usually throws a curveball question at the end, so you're getting off easy. Anything else before we close out?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I certainly appreciate that. I can, I can guarantee you that, um, there's, there's the only reason I'm here, um, is because of what the community gave to me and the people that I was able to follow and emulate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's just, uhm, it's an honor to be sitting here talking to you and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thanks for coming on today. My pleasure. And more important, thank you for your service to the Navy, to Special Operations, and first and foremost to our great nation. And then somewhat selfishly, uhm, thank you for what you did for the teams.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thank you for leading me and my fellow frogmen and for setting an example that will forever guide our conduct, our character, and our ethos.


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[Assistant] Did you start connecting the dots on who is in the room?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, but. So you'd connected one out of three. Yea, one dot. As far as, uh, as far as, you know, some of the, some of the most important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Special operations. So awesome, uh, to have him on here and to be able to hear some of those stories and thoughts. So Admiral Craven, thank you so much for coming on.


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[Assistant] And what does this mean for us? Well, it means we can do a little bit more. It means we can certainly, we have work to do.


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[Assistant] The work that we have to do starts with us. In order to get better. In order to move in the right direction. Echo Charles. Yes sir.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 100%. That's a great analogy. And I thought you were gonna say when he was talking about the guys like, hey sir, you got nothing to prove.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's interesting, something I used to talk about to the young SEAL officers, is I would say, you have nothing to prove, but everything to prove. Cause sometimes they think they gotta prove that they're in charge, so they start barking orders at people, and you know, we're gonna use my plan and all that other stuff. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You don't have to prove that you're in charge. We know you're in charge. You're the officer. You're literally called the officer in charge. You don't need to prove that, but you do need to prove you do. You got a lot to prove.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, 37 years for him in the SEAL teams, in the, in the military. And again, what's I think is important is, as he said, look, there's so many people that did so much, have done so much work, so much work to protect America and everybody from,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And of course you're gonna talk about what his experiences were.


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[Assistant] And, you know, he's gonna give you his perspective, but, you know, I tried to point out in the beginning, he, you know, Admiral Craven was always connected to the guys on the front lines and the people that are out there making it happen, so. Awesome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think that these energy drinks that we have created are going to make all other energy drinks obsolete?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People are looking at the old, the dinosaurs, we'll say. They're thinking, oh this dinosaur.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It, it tastes okay and it gives me energy for an hour, but then I ruined my health and I feel like crap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then they look over at this can discipline go and they go, Oh, this makes me feel a little good. And it's, it's actually good for me. Yeah, this is, this is how, uh, this is how the old energy drink dinosaurs are going to go extinct. Yes, they're going extinct. That looks like the current, the freaking big comet just hit or whatever it was that would kill the dinosaurs. Is it a volcano?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The asteroid, the asteroid just hit the other energy drinks in the form of Jocko Discipline. Go. Oh yea, so. They're going down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go. The world right now, collectively is celebrating your first solo victory.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I had a couple, I had a messed up sleep schedule passed. Not last night, two nights before that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you don't, you want, let's face it, you want ice cream. Ice cream has a lot of downside to it. Yes it does. You can have mulk all upside, no downside. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Friday run, which Admiral talked about, was like a 10-mile or 12-mile or, sorry, 50-10-mile spell.


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[Assistant] Hey, you can get this stuff at JacoFuel.com. If you subscribe to it, it's free shipping.


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[Assistant] Which is a legit thing because right now there's, let's face it, there's large, rather large, extremely large companies that are trying to lure you into their little realm.


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[Assistant] And we understand that, we gotta compete with them. So if you subscribe, free shipping, you can do double support. Much appreciated. Also we got originusa.com if you need a jiu-jitsu gi, if you need jeans, if you need boots, if you need a t-shirt. If you need a belt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're talking about fighting for America. Cool. That's awesome. We love it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Guess what else we gotta do? We gotta support the economy here. Cause without the American economy, nothing else matters. You don't have a military unless you have a good economy. So support the American economy. Stuff that's made in America with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Raw materials that were made or grown or produced in America. That's what we're doing. OriginUSA.com Get it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's gonna be more cool. Well, there you go. They're cool right now, but they're light-hearted some of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Subscribe to this podcast too, wherever you listen to podcasts. Don't forget we also have Jocko unraveling podcasts with my man DC, Darrell Cooper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Putting out word. Grounded podcast. We have the Warrior Kid podcast. We also have JockoUnderground.com. If you want to get a little additional podcast scenario, you can check that out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you have to subscribe to it. It costs eight dollars and eighteen cents a month. What are we doing with that? We're creating a platform of our own that if things go sideways, we got a contingency plan. We'll meet you in the underground. Underground. Jockounderground.com. Come and check that out. We have a YouTube channel, by the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, we make videos. We make videos. We do. We have, obviously, you all know Echo's got some technical skills that he can put to use. He can do the editing and some of that other sort of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I do appreciate your being able to edit properly. So if you want to see Echo's edits and my vision,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want a little spot, psychological spot, getting over the hesitation, check out flipsidecanvas.com. Dakota Meyer, my brother, he's making cool stuff to hang on your wall. Also made in America. We got some books. You heard about some of them today. Spec Ops. These are from, these are from Admiral William H. McRaven.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got spec ops, we got make your bed, we got see stories, and we got the latest the hero code. Those are available on our website. If you go to jocopodcast.com and you click on books from the podcast, they'll all be there. That's also a way to support too, by the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got final spin. This is, uh, my book that's coming out and you're going to want that first a dish.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're gonna want the first dish. So order that. Right now the publisher's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're not really a fiction writer. And we don't know, people are probably not going to appreciate your work. They're more looking for, uh, you know, that's what they're saying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So like, okay, we'll print, you know, a limited number of copies. Technically, aren't you a fictional writer? Yes, because I've written a bunch of fiction kids books. You are correct.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look, book comes out, there, we gotta let him know at least to print enough, so if you want to pre-order that one and get that first dish, go ahead and make that happen. Uhm, so that's final spin. Leadership strategy and tactics field manual, the code, the evaluation, the protocol, which also, yeah, that's another code. I forgot to mention that one today.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the code, the evaluation protocol, discipline equals freedom, field manual.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where the warrior kid 1, 2, 3, and 4, Mike and the Dragons, about faced by Hackworth, extreme ownership, and the dichotomy of leadership, which I wrote with my brother Leif Babin,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I also have a leadership consultancy and we solve problems through leadership. Go to ashlandfront.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you need us to come and help you in your organization, we have, we have Extreme Ownership Academy online leadership training. Get to the leadership gym.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get to the, hey, you don't go to a gym one time, workout, and then you're good. No, you gotta stay healthy. You gotta maintain that strength.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Join our online, we're doing, by the way, you got questions? Come and ask me the question. I will be on a Zoom call, literally ask, answering your question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Come and check it out. We have a live event called The Muster. Next one up is Phoenix, August 17th and 18th and then Las Vegas, October 28th and 29th. Check ExtremeOwnership.com.


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[Assistant] For that as well. All those are sold out, by the way. And this one will too. These will too. We have a couple other events. You can check out Battlefield. We go Battlefield walks. We have FTX.


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[Assistant] And if you want to help service members active and retired, their families, Gold Star family, check out Mark Lee's Mom, Mom and Lee, she's got a charity organization.


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[Assistant] helps out our warriors if you want to donate or you want to get involved go to americasmightywarriors.org and if you want


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[Assistant] On Twitter, on Instagram, which Echo only refers to as the Gram, and on Facebook, Echoes at EchoCharles, and I am at Jocko Willink, and thanks once again to Admiral McRaven for


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[Assistant] But thanks to all the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who have been on the battlefield.


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[Assistant] Well, for hundreds of years, and who allow America and freedom and democracy to exist. And the same goes to our police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, and all first responders. Thank you for your protection here at home.


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[Assistant] And everyone else out there, you know, I didn't quite get into it to this book, the hero code.


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[Assistant] Okay. You see what I'm saying? Yes, 100% bro.


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[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 311 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Wheeling. Good evening, Echo. Good evening.


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[Assistant] Almost 7,000 ships and landing vessels, almost 200,000 naval personnel and 150,000 ground troops.


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[Assistant] Attacking the heavily fortified beaches of the Nazi's Atlantic wall in France.


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[Assistant] In doing so, Allied forces suffered over 10,000 casualties, including 4,414 killed in action.


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[Assistant] However, the fighting was not over. Far from it.


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[Assistant] The fight through the villager's bocage, the assault on the city of Cain and Sherborg, the battle to seize the village of Saint Lowe.


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[Assistant] The fight to close the Fele's gap, the liberation of Paris, the advance to the Rhine.


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[Assistant] That was at Moorbirge, Overloon, the Hurtgen Forest, and all the way


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[Assistant] To the Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes Forest.


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[Assistant] The Battle of the Bullets, the largest battle fought by Americans in World War II.


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[Assistant] December 1944 through January 1945.


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[Assistant] Included a million allied troops, 500,000 Americans.


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[Assistant] Resulted in more than 47,000 wounded, over 23,000 missing, and 19,000 killed in action.


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[Assistant] But in the Battle of the Bulge, once again, victory was achieved.


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[Assistant] And eventually victory in Europe was achieved and then Japan and that victory was achieved by what is now known as the greatest generation.


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[Assistant] For us tonight to have one of those men here with us, a man that landed on D-Day and fought all the way to the Battle of the Bulge.


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[Assistant] His name is Mr. Jake Larson, also known as Papa Jake, and he is here with us. Sir, thank you for coming. It is an honor to have you here.


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[Assistant] You have to admit that you are lucky. And in fact, you did admit it. You have a book that you wrote, which is called The Luckiest Man in the World. And I think you're definitely in the running for it.


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[Assistant] And, and this was, we'll get to that part of the story, but this, what you're talking about, this exercise at Slapped in Sands, this was just a prep preparatory event to get ready for D-Day.


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[Assistant] And yet, where you were doing this training, there was enemy there. There was enemy vessels.


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[Assistant] That's one of the many stories you have in this book and the book is a phenomenal book and I wanted to kind of go back in time a little bit and just talk about where you came from and read a little bit from the book.


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[Assistant] And I'll, I'll skip around so everyone that's out there, if you, you have to get the whole book. I'm only going to read some little pieces of it today. But just wanted to talk to you about some of the things that you talk about in the book. Uhm, you say here.


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[Assistant] My birthday in December 1922 had a huge effect on my life because I was younger than most of my classmates who were born earlier in the year. All this meant however, was that I learned how to get things done. Now you grew up with seven


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[Assistant] Seven brothers and sisters. Yes. You had Todd, Earl, Evan, Leo, Murl, Eleanor, and Bobby. And you note in here, you say, I remember asking Leo how I was born.


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[Assistant] And he told me that a crow shit on a fence post and the sun hatched me out. Whenever I saw a crow, I wondered if it was the one responsible for my birth.


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[Assistant] Living on a farm, I saw plenty of chickens hatch, so the story made sense to me.


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[Assistant] So I think, uh, your brother Leo had you fooled for a little while.


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[Assistant] So you, your parents started off on a homestead in South Dakota and you talk about that some in here, but then eventually, uhm,


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[Assistant] Grandma Larson who lived in Hope, Minnesota wrote to my father and her husband's after her husband's death asking if he could move


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[Assistant] To hope to run the farm. My parents packed their bags once again and moved to the 240 acre farm. Aunt Bertha got 80 acres and we got the rest. The downstairs included the living room along with Pa and mother's bedrooms and the kitchen which had a wood stove equipped with burners, an oven and a 30 gallon reservoir.


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[Assistant] You say, Pa's bedroom was off the kitchen and Mom's room was by the living room. They didn't sleep in the same bed, but managed to have eight kids anyways. And then all the kids' rooms were upstairs.


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[Assistant] And you, you went through, I know we're going through a pandemic right now, but you went through the, or your parents began running the farm after the flu pandemic of 1918.


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[Assistant] You say life on the farm was not easy. It was plain hard work. Every member of the family had chores. We'd get up at about 6am, drink hot cocoa, then do chores. Like milking cows, caring feed for the cattle, cleaning the stalls, adding in the new straw, separating milk and cream. The milk went to the hogs, and the cream went to the house. We poured cream into cans, dropping them.


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[Assistant] into the well to keep them cool. We milked 30 to 32 cows by hand every morning and night. I was about six years old when I started milking cows.


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[Assistant] So you had all that going on, plus you had turkeys, geese, pigs, horses, ducks, and you planted wheat and corn and, and barley and oats and alfalfa and soybeans, tomatoes, potatoes, carrots, turnips. You had everything going on.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, that's one of the, one of the crazy accidents that you saw when you were growing up. Before we get to that, you had a section in here


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[Assistant] And, and the section, this chapter of the book is called Moonshine.


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[Assistant] And you say, Pa made moonshine long before I was born. He was accommodating people who needed to drink, but had to seek other means of getting it due to prohibition. I helped bottle the moonshine when I was eight. It was double pure, pretty close to 200%.


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[Assistant] But he used distilled water to cut it down to 85% alcohol.


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[Assistant] You tell a story in here about the first time you got drunk, which was around age 5.


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[Assistant] Yes. And it's funny, we're chuckling about it now, but you saying here at one point, it happened. One of dad's so-called friends turned him in. And he got six months in Austin City Jail for selling moonshine.


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[Assistant] Though the original sentence was up to two years at Leavenworth Penitentiary. So your dad ended up going into jail for a while.


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[Assistant] That's amazing. Uh, you, you mentioned some of these accidents. You know, you mentioned the windmill one, but it's a whole sec, you, you got a whole section in the book of when you're growing up just called accidents. You had your sister get, get injured by a manure spreader. You had a kid that got hit by lightning.


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[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, you talked about in here, so your brother Bobby, uh,


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[Assistant] Climbed up there, you're telling him to get down before mom comes home.


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[Assistant] And, you know, he says, I don't worry about it. I'll be down by the time she gets here.


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[Assistant] Again, it's, I guess it's, we're kinda chuckling about it now, but man, in the book here, let me read a little section from the book.


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[Assistant] They heard him fall, ran over and brought him into the house, carrying him into the kitchen. His eyeballs were out of their sockets on his cheeks and blood shot out of his ears whenever his heart beat. He was out cold.


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[Assistant] Leo ran to Uncle Charlie's house because he had a phone to call Dr. Urdle, who put his eyeballs back into their sockets and cotton into his ears to slow the bleeding.


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[Assistant] The doctor said his broken right arm, splinting it with cob, cardboard.


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[Assistant] I didn't think it could get any worse, but the fall cracked his head too. The doctor instructed us to get ice packs on his head.


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[Assistant] Elmer Steele had an ice house about a mile from us so we got the ice from there and mom packed Bobby's ice head in ice held on with cloth diapers.


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[Assistant] My mom tied him to the bed so he wouldn't move around, feeding him soup and taking care of him. There's no nurse like a mother. He was her baby. For what seemed like a month he lapsed in and out of consciousness until one day he sat up in bed asking, where's Jake? I want to play with Jake. And he was okay.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you got some incredible detail about that stuff in the book too.


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[Assistant] You ended up going to uh, grammar school.


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[Assistant] You went to, what is it, Lehman Township? Lehman Township. Lehman Township. You say you did homework by the kerosene lamp light.


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[Assistant] You're talking about how that lamp light would get dirty. You have to clean it before you start your homework.


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[Assistant] What was normal for you guys back then was when you got done with kind of grammar school, when you got done with 8th grade,


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[Assistant] Sometimes you didn't, you didn't continue on with school. You didn't go to high school.


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[Assistant] And, and for you, you had Mrs. Jeffrey who sent a note home that said, I recommend that you let Jake go to high school cause he's a fast learner.


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[Assistant] And he ended up telling your dad that he would help with the work so that you would be able to go to school.


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[Assistant] Then the high school that you went to, you had to go and live somewhere else, right?


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[Assistant] And then you ended up, in order to pay for your room and board, you ended up pretty much working for one of your friends' moms who had a, had a little place to stay. And you helped out there.


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[Assistant] Uh, so, I gotta go to the book here, this, this section here, cause it kinda starts off your military career. It says, in 1938, I was walking around town on a Saturday afternoon with my cousin Chick.


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[Assistant] Outside Roxy Theater, we saw a sign, Saturday matinee, Gene Autry, America's number one cowboy. It cost 10 cents, but we didn't have a penny between us.


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[Assistant] Chick suggested, Jake, let's join the National Guard. They pay $12 every three months. It sounded like a great way to insure a steady income, but I pointed out, Chick, we're 15, you have to be 18.


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[Assistant] Chick was a lot taller and heavier set than me. We were like Mutt and Jeff. He answered, when they ask how old we are, just say 18. The worst they can do is kick us out. They aren't going to arrest us.


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[Assistant] So we walked into the office at the armory, and I still remember the stocky captain's name, Captain Hugh H. Soper.


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[Assistant] He looked at, he looked up from his desk asking, what can I do for you?


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[Assistant] Sir, we'd like to join the National Guard. I was expecting him to ask how old we were, and I was ready to say 18. He looked me in the eyes and asked, what year were you born? Wow, I had to think quick. 1922? 1923? 1919, sir!


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[Assistant] Chick had it easy since he was just standing behind me. He just followed suit and answered the same thing.


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[Assistant] So, Soper stamped out our enlistment papers and we were in.


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[Assistant] It was as easy as that, no physical or test required. I joined company F 135th Infantry Regiment of the 34th Infantry Division, the Red Bulls. So you're 15 years old.


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[Assistant] You say it here, I learned as much about training for war combat as I did about coping with chiggers, ticks, and intense humidity.


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[Assistant] And so that, you left for that February 1941. And so we still weren't at war yet.


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[Assistant] No. But you, but it, the country looked like we were heading in that direction. I know you mentioned in here, one of your friends, Carlos,


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[Assistant] Yeaah, Carlos Boqui, he told me, Jake, let's join the Air Force. I asked him why and he said the money is better and we'll get to be officers. I thought that sounded good. At the time, I was a corporal getting $42 a month.


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[Assistant] While a private earned $30 a month. Carlos and I decided to try and enlist. So we went through the physicals and written tests. The physicals involved an eye exam. Carlos passed his, but they told me I was colorblind. I had no idea. Then I found out my brother Todd was also colorblind.


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[Assistant] So you tried to join the Air Force, but you couldn't see colors and they wouldn't let you in, so you stayed in the Army.


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[Assistant] No questions from my side of the table, sir.


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[Assistant] So Pearl Harbor happens December 7th, 1941.


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[Assistant] I, I kinda wanted to portray a little bit of your, uh, let's say,


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[Assistant] Let's say you're rebellious spirit. You had a little rebellious spirit when you were younger. Uhm, Colonel Schmidt, the 135th Infantry Commanding Officer, announced that all the company clerks he had authority over were authorized 15 day furloughs. So you were going to get 15 days of leave. Now Captain Erickson, Erickson, told you, hey, get everyone set. Only give people 7 days.


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[Assistant] And you told him, sir, everyone will have to turn around and come home before they even get there.


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[Assistant] And he said, Corporal, I'm your commanding officer. You will do as you are told.


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[Assistant] Except for on your papers, you give yourself 15 days leave so you can get back home, spend some time, then come back. And he just went through the stack of papers and signed them all, and you took your 15 days.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but then you ended up, you ended up going into the, the G3, into operations.


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[Assistant] Being able to type, uh, you say here, being part of the G3, so G3 for people that don't know, this is operations, these are people that are coming up with the plans and, and directing how these operations are gonna go.


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[Assistant] And, and you say here, man, being a part of G3 was a whole different world. Instead of reporting to a captain or lieutenant,


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[Assistant] I had to report to a full bird colonel or a lieutenant colonel.


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[Assistant] You said once I was part of G3 I met, I met who would become one of my closest friends while on the service. Corporal Madison Rich. He was from New Jersey and was a skilled typist just like myself.


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[Assistant] You said when I had free time, I, this is, by the way, this is when you're, I fast forward past this part, but this is when you're overseas, you're now in Ireland, and England, and you guys are preparing for the invasion.


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[Assistant] You say, when I had free time, I'd hang out with my other pals, Corporal Cray and Staff Sergeant Robert Jeffrey. Cray was the cockiest Irishman I ever met while Jeffrey was subdued. I was only 19 at the time, and they were both much older than me. Because of my slight stature, they nicknamed me Bony Ass.


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[Assistant] Uh, before you get to D-Day, you, you have one incident that I just, I had to bring up because uhm, it, it, and it's another thing that had a big impact on your life.


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[Assistant] You, you were taking some pictures and there was a major that you were with. Major Ridgway. And you say, he had gotten out of his jeep while he was talking to me. So I sat down in the jeep and handed him my 35 millimeter Argus camera. Here major, can you take a picture of me sitting in your jeep?


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[Assistant] What's funny about the picture is that it was the only jeep I ever sat in while I was in the service. I sent that picture along with other pictures to my mother, my dad looked through them and picked the picture of me sitting in the jeep to bring to the photo, photo news. They liked it well enough to put in their paper, adding a blurb about Corporal Jake Larson in North Ireland.


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[Assistant] I was unaware of it at the time but that picture being published in the paper would lead me to the love of my life and we'll get to that later. Uhm, at this point


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[Assistant] Now you guys are, and again I'm gonna fast forward a little bit, but now you leave to go to Portsmouth to start the planning for today. Portsmouth. Portsmouth, okay. I'll say it that way. So you guys go to Portsmouth to, uh, start the planning. You're promoted to sergeant.


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[Assistant] And, and this is where you participate in that operation.


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[Assistant] Or the training operation at Slapped in Sands, which you talked about earlier.


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[Assistant] Just a unbelievable travesty, you go on this training mission.


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[Assistant] These, these, these ships are filled with soldiers to practice D-Day and the Germans actually sank some of those ships, two of those ships. 795 people killed before D-Day even happened during a training operation.


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[Assistant] And they, the Americans that died during that, they reported, they told the families that they died during D-Day.


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[Assistant] And that brings us to D-Day. And I just wanna...


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[Assistant] Read some of this and just get your feedback on it.


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[Assistant] D-Day was supposed to be June 5th, so all the troops were loaded into ships the day before including me. The sea was getting rougher and rougher, so they called it off and we had to return.


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[Assistant] They had a British weather master who told Eisenhower there would be a break in the weather in the morning. So he decided to have the invasion go on June 6th.


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[Assistant] By the time of the change, I hadn't slept for 72 hours, just running on adrenaline.


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[Assistant] There are 7,000 ships on the move with 158,000 troops and our destination about 170 miles away. Everywhere you looked there was a ship and they were going to different beaches. Everything was programmed.


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[Assistant] I went in with the members of the 1st Infantry Division on the USS Ankon, which was the command ship. About 8 miles from shore, the landing craft pulled up alongside us, so we had to climb down rope ladders into the boat carrying 75 pounds of gear and our rifles.


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[Assistant] Then we dropped into landing craft, which was bobbing up and down in three to four foot waves.


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[Assistant] You know, we see images, uh, produced by computers to simulate what it looked like with all those ships on D-Day. That must have been an incredible sight.


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[Assistant] You must have had very good awareness of what you were going into in terms of the enemy positions.


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[Assistant] It seems like you would have known even more what you were facing than the normal soldiers who maybe weren't as involved in the planning.


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[Assistant] And this was your first combat operation with D-Day.


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[Assistant] What was the, what was the fear level for you?


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[Assistant] You say here I was the last off- last one off the ship when they dumped us out too far. We marched off the ramp into the water and all walked in a line. I made my way into the icy water that reached up to my chin, holding my rifle over my head, but I wasn't thinking about the water's temperature.


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[Assistant] I just wanted to get through it alive. The section of shore I landed on was known as


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[Assistant] We were supposed to be able to walk through the surf and find bomb holes, which would be shelters for us. The Air Corps totally missed Omaha Beach, so there was no protection for us. Those beaches were all mined.


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[Assistant] I would find out later in life that there were millions of mines on that beach. If you stepped on one of those babies, it was a quick trip to heaven. I was more afraid of stepping on a mine than being shot at. I ran toward the cliffs, making sure to step in the same footprints as the man in front of me made. What the hell am I doing here?


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[Assistant] The thought pounded in my head as I dodged bullets determined to stay focused on reaching the safety of the cliffs.


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[Assistant] How did a simple farm boy from Minnesota land on Omaha Beach on D-Day?


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[Assistant] Machine guns were firing in all directions with bodies everywhere.


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[Assistant] The bullets were blasting off the berm as I ducked into it. I wasn't going to get out of that hole no matter what.


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[Assistant] I smoked at that time and I had my cigarettes in this plastic bag so they wouldn't get wet. Unfortunately, I didn't have a match. I remember then that I started shaking. Before that moment I had felt no fear.


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[Assistant] I turned to my left and saw a soldier lying down with his back toward me. I called out, Hey buddy, do you have a match?


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[Assistant] Then I noticed there was no head underneath the helmet.


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[Assistant] That got me moving. Jake, move, I told myself. I got up and dashed for the bottom of the cliff wall about 200 yards away. I remember saying to myself, Jake, what the hell are you doing here? You're running for your life so nobody can shoot at you, but everybody can shoot at you.


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[Assistant] I only weighed 120 pounds soaking wet, so that was an advantage since it's hard to shoot at a toothpick.


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[Assistant] After what seemed like an eternity, I made it to the cliff wall where I was safe.


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[Assistant] From what I've read over 2,500 dead died at Omaha beach that day.


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[Assistant] But you still have to push through barbed wire and the guys start getting out the Bangalore torpedoes, right?


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, so uhm, you're setting up this command post, you don't remember a lot of it, and, and you say uhm, I was relieved to see my good friend Corporal Madison Rich, who arrived in a different landing craft than I.


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[Assistant] That right there must have been amazing to see all these guys get killed.


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[Assistant] And I had my litter down in my foxhole. A litter was just a canvas cloth fastened between two removable sticks on either side. I slept on top of it to keep moisture and dampness off my body.


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[Assistant] We didn't have sleeping bags. We made our own with wool blankets provided, calling them fart sacks. Which by the way, we still called sleeping bags fart sacks in the military when I was in. Uh, once I found out


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[Assistant] I had to work that night. I told Corporal Rich, you can sleep in my foxhole tonight. I've got the litter in there.


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[Assistant] Thanks Jake, I got my fart sack all made up now, I'm not changing it.


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[Assistant] Nevertheless, he laid his M1 rifle on my litter and went to sleep.


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[Assistant] That night, the Germans wanted to see what we were up to. So they sent over reconnaissance planes, dropping flares to take pictures after midnight. They lit up the beach like daylight. Our anti-aircraft started shooting it up at those planes. Well, what goes up must come down. So when Matty Rich got up in the morning, he went to pick up his rifle in my foxhole.


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[Assistant] Only for it to fall in two pieces. The shrapnel from our men shooting at the Germans had hit his rifle during the night. Talk about luck. They had called on me to work that night and he's fortunate he didn't take me up on my offer of sleeping there. So there you go.


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[Assistant] And during this time, you're supposed to be working during the day and then getting some sleep at night.


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[Assistant] You're working during the day, and then at night you all have to move.


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[Assistant] We, we uhm, covered a book on this podcast called The Clay Pigeons of St. Louis by Glover Johns, who was one of the officers that fought there.


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[Assistant] And so you were there for that, you say about a month after D-Day we were supposed to capture a little town called St. Lo. We moved from the cliffs to the headroads of the town. We planned to capture it without delay, but it took us about a month because the Germans put up such stiff resistance.


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[Assistant] We put out orders and then different units under our command carried them out.


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[Assistant] At that time other infantry units had landed on D-Day with us and those troops were under our control. We would storm them or open fire.


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[Assistant] Civilians didn't count. They didn't factor into the equation.


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[Assistant] You have to take that position in war. If they're in the way or on the road, you just rush them off. That's why so many civilians were killed during the war.


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[Assistant] I spent most of my time during the daylight thinking of getting some sleep, but again, we were always on the move. We were captured, after we captured St. Lo, I went to bed in the morning and woke up at 2am, unable to remember how I got there. I had been numb, thinking only of sleep, sleep, sleep.


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[Assistant] Each soldier, each soldier carries a tent shell, half tent shell. So I put my shelter half in a ditch and there was three feet high next to the road. If you don't have another soldier with you, you have to make do with you half a tent.


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[Assistant] I was thinking about brushing my teeth and shaving. I noticed another soldier walking around carrying something. I took the liner out of my helmet and poured some water into it. So I could brush my teeth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And was just about to shave when one of the soldiers asked, Hey, what the hell are you doing here? I explained I'm going to shave. I work at night. I just woke up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there you are going to brush your teeth and there's an unexploded shell. You happen to run into these guys.


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[Assistant] I don't think, if that thing went off, I don't think even the luck would get you through that one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're lucky I helped. Uh, here's another one, another,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another piece of evidence for the luckiest man in the world. Colonel Hill asked me what I was doing. I said I was thinking about getting something to eat. He said I got a jeep coming up from the motor pool and I'll ti- I'll ti- I'd like to- you to ride along with it to look at our next command post. Check it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For Colonel Hill, I would do anything. The guy saved my life a few times by putting me in charge of the night shift. I responded gladly sir. We had a hand drawn map of the area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was the place we were supposed to turn. Somebody was looking out for me. I swear. I went, we went back to Colonel Hill reporting the incident. He uttered, you're like a cat with nine lives.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're using up some of those nine lives in these events.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and before you even get to the Battle of the Bulge, shortly after that, we moved through a narrow valley called the Felle's Gap. Felle's. Felle's Gap, where we had a German army partially trapped.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Part of Patton's troops was there. Plus the V Corps. We captured 50,000 German soldiers and killed nearly that many.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the first time I ever walked over dead people and around dead horses. When we landed on Omaha Beach, I had never stepped over any of our soldier- soldiers. That's like stepping on your brother. I didn't get the same feeling walking over the enemy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the next thing that you did was the capture of Paris, the liberation of Paris. What was that like?


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[Assistant] And, and you as a farm boy from Hope, Minnesota, ended up having a pretty nice office once you got in.


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[Assistant] And even as, you know, you say the, the Germans kind of gave up Paris, but it wasn't over yet. And you had even more close calls. You say this here as, after we moved out of Paris, we ended up in Luxembourg.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Since I worked nights, after I'd get some rest during the day, I'd have some free time to walk on the cobblestone streets. We were in a valley and I came to an intersection at the foot of a hill. I had just started crossing the road when an English Spitfire and a German Messerschmitt right on its tail.


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[Assistant] The cannon shot right in front of me, shattering the cobblestones into pieces. I landed on my face in the cobblestones and got the hell out of there. Once again, it was unbelievable how lucky I was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, uh, you mentioned the battle of the bulge earlier on December 16th at 2 in the morning. I was on duty when a corporal drove up to the command post, came in and reported. He was so excited that he saluted me, a staff sergeant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He declared, I'm at guard post number six. And of course we got out the operations map so I could see right where he was, just south of Manshaw. Manshu? Manshaw. He told me that the German paratroopers were coming down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I asked when, when you saw them coming down, what did you do? I got in the jeep and came right here. So that was the beginning of the battle of the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the, uh, the Germans put, had, had POWs, American POWs took their uniforms and then went out into this area and started changing the road signs and doing, they were spying and stuff. And you talked about the fact that if you caught those people, when those people were caught, they were shot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No trials necessary for those men. Killed on the spot.


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[Assistant] And then the German tanks started to roll through.


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[Assistant] I was reading some history about this and I guess six different occasions. This was, this was Hitler's plan was to push into, you know, to push, push and squirt. Yep. To push through there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Six times his generals objected to the plan and said this isn't a good idea, we shouldn't do this. And six times he said no, we're doing it anyways.