[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The number one thing for, oh, when I'm talking to Dave, Dave knows that, you know what, I care about Dave. If that's the underlying, if that's the underlying, uh, uh, principle on which we're, that I'm doing this, is because I care about him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, and it doesn't mean proactive by saying, hey Dave, I really care about you. That doesn't work. You can't just say it. You gotta prove by your actions. You gotta show people like, hey, guess what's more important than me? You.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when I'm talking to you and I'm listening to you and I'm taking your advice on board and I'm saying, yeah, you know what, let's go with your plan. I'm doing that because I want you to execute your plan. I want you to learn from your plan. I want to support your plan because I care about you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Someone's gonna be encouraged to force their, their, uh, impose good relationships on people, right? So yeaah, you gotta be careful of that. And again,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And actually, here's the next line in this book. You are not building the relationship so you can garner favor from the boss. No, you are trying to build a relationship so the boss trusts you and will listen to you so you and the team can more effectively accomplish the mission.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what you're doing. You want to accomplish the mission. Which is good for everybody.


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[Assistant] And then it goes back and says, for these reasons, choose your battle. Carefully, because if you remember, this whole paragraph is about like, when do you actually approach the boss? When is it worth saying to the boss, hey,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey boss, can you explain this to me because I'm not sure that I understand what you want to have happen here.


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[Assistant] If it's not worth that conversation because it's not going to be that big of a difference.


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[Assistant] If the premise that you go on in on is you want to build a relationship with me for your own benefit, I'm gonna see right through that and so is anybody else. If the premise that you go in is because you care about me and you're wondering if I saw the football game because you know I like football and you want to talk to me about it and you care about me,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yes, if you're a person that's walking around and you're gonna use the principles in this book to benefit yourself,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone's gonna see through it. It doesn't work. And what's really cool, and this is all, like the closing of the book is what we're getting to right now is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The best possible way to do that is to care about your team, care about the mission, take care of them and that will show through and eventually you will get to the top.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're, if you're sitting there thinking, hey I want to get to the top so I'm ready to do whatever it takes and step on people or use people, it's, it's so obvious. It's so obvious when someone's playing that game. And you can barely even fake it. You can barely even fake it like, well I'm, look I'm gonna get to the top but I know I have to be cool with Dave.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My boss. So I'm gonna manipulate here. And here's the really sad thing.


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[Assistant] If you're that person, you think no one can see it. And everyone can see it.


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[Assistant] It's not gonna work. If you're trying to do this because you care about the team, it's gonna work and you're gonna win. You, personally, are gonna win.


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[Assistant] This continues on. It is obvious that building a trustworthy relationship with your superiors is important. But how do you do that? One of the simplest ways is obvious but often gets overlooked. That is performance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your boss expects you to complete certain tasks, so complete them. Do them on time, on budget, and with as little drama as possible. Get the mission done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This includes doing things you might not be 100% in agreement with. I did this throughout my career and it always served me well. Boss wants me to fill out some extra paperwork? Cool, I'll do it. Boss needs me to cover a shift for someone else on the team? I've got it. Boss needs me to help clean up some administrative mess that got spilled? I'm on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Boss has a nasty low reward mission that needs executing. I'm all over it.


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[Assistant] With each one of those problems, I am the solution. With each problem I solve, the level of trust with the boss goes up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I will continue on that path. I won't complain or try and shift bad jobs onto someone else or even look for some kind of praise. I will simply put my head down and do the work. Over time, my boss will know that I am the person who can make things happen. And more important, I gain clout with the boss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is the opposite of the subordinate who complains and objects or always thinks he has a better way to do things. He loses influence with the boss every time he opens his mouth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Any objection from that subordinate is seen by the boss as another typical excuse. The more you talk the less people listen. On the other hand, when I do what needs to be done,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The boss trusts that I can make things happen. The boss also knows that if I do raise an objection, it is likely to be founded on solid facts that should be considered.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Since I get things done and don't constantly voice my objections, the boss actually listens.


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[Assistant] I always utilized this strategy with my senior leadership and it worked well. I would simply make things happen as often as I could. Now, here's where this is gonna, uh, I'm gonna preemptively shut down your next comment. Echo Charles. Okay. Cause I know I can already see from this conversation where your head's at. So listen to this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is, this is where I kind of feel like I make my money. Sure. Right here. This is next level, okay? But, how does that appear from the perspectives of, of your subordinates?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because now everyone's looking at you going, just do whatever the boss says. For instance, if I recognize that there are some flaws in my boss's plan, then my subordinates certainly recognize the same thing. What do I tell them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do I preserve their respect if they think I can't see the errors the boss is making? The answer is simple. I tell them the truth.


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[Assistant] I say, hey team, I know there might be some better ways to skin this cat, but at this point the effort to change the plan would take almost the same effort that it will to just get this job done. So we are just going to do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And let me tell you what else we're doing by getting this done. We are building trust with the boss. Every one of these little tasks from him that we crush allows him to trust us more and more. And that gives us the ability to get listened to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when something comes up that really doesn't make sense, he will listen.


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[Assistant] That is why we are going to execute this plan to the absolute best of our ability.


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[Assistant] You're welcome. Uh, I skipped to this section now called, play the game.


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[Assistant] You have to play the game. To be more specific, you have to play the long game. Yes, sir. No one wants to hear this. Especially from me.


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[Assistant] People don't want to hear about building relationships. They want me to say, You achieve victory through blunt force trauma.


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[Assistant] From like, the periphery, from like the outside looking in, kind of saw, tasking a bruiser, or saw my platoon, or saw me at trade at, they would kind of get this idea like, oh, okay, you know, this is, this, you know, that's how jococot rolls.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And sometimes those guys would never get to see the rest of the picture, which would not work out well.


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[Assistant] And this is something that Leif talked about. You know, Leif would see guys...


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[Assistant] That type of hyper aggressive, take no prisoners mentality is certainly simple and straightforward, which is often the kind of leadership advice that people expect from me and what they want to hear.


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[Assistant] A heavy handed and hostile approach usually works for a little while. You may be able to bludgeon people into doing what you want them to do for a day or two, maybe a week, maybe even a solid few months. Perhaps you can force a couple projects to completion through ruthless and aggressive offense. But those successes will be short lived.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As you trash relationships, burn bridges, and leave scorched earth in your wake, you will soon look up and realize you are done. You have destroyed everything for short-term gain. You have nothing left.


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[Assistant] As I said earlier, you get that job for long enough to just barely start to learn it and then you're on to another job.


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[Assistant] So what happens is it happens, it happens a lot in the military, too often. A guy's just a guy that leads by blunt force trauma and he, he gets done with his...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's gone in 24 months. Right. So this is what happens and we see this as well. You have a person that was in the military that rose through the ranks and did a good job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, on paper, but was abusive and blunt force trauma and beat down people on his rise up, retires from the military.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gets out of the military and then all of a sudden gets a job in a civilian sector.


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[Assistant] And doesn't last. Because as soon as he tries that, people are going, wait a second, you think you're gonna be here for the next ten years? I'm not putting up with this. No one in the chain of command is putting up with this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mean that you're a good leader. At all. Nope. No guarantee. And this is the type of person


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[Assistant] Who gets done with a platoon, they get a good fit rep, this is another scary thing about this, is sometimes up the chain of command, these people look great. From the people that are above them, their boss loves them, their boss is like, hey, uh, they got everything done, you know, he was aggressive, really liked him. You go into that platoon and you guys, you realize, or go into that unit,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's someone that's listening right now going, well, oh my, I'm gonna let my boss abuse my people. It's like, no, no, no, actually not at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] However, and there's whole sections in this book that cover this. Oh, if I got someone that's abusing my people or is doing something unethical, unsafe, yeaah. Maybe it is time for a mutiny, but, and we'll get into that, how you make that decision of when it's time to actually draw a line in the sand. We'll talk about that.


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[Assistant] Going back to this section is, you know, talking about the person that just uses blunt force trauma.


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[Assistant] And I say, don't do that. Instead, you have to play the game. That means...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I try to support my boss and perform my duties to the best of my ability. In playing the game, I am building up trust with the boss, I am building a relationship. Why is it so important to build a relationship with my boss?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is it so I can get promoted? Is it so I can get assigned easier tasks? No, I am trying to build the relationship. Not for my own personal gain. I'm trying to build a relationship with my boss so we can better accomplish the mission. And playing the game doesn't only go up the chain of command. It goes down the chain of command too.


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[Assistant] When you are the boss and your subordinates come to you objecting to something you say,


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[Assistant] Listen and ask for alternatives. And when they give you a decent one, say yes. And utilize their alternative.


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[Assistant] Even if their alternative doesn't seem quite as effective or efficient as your methodology, let them do it. This builds trust and relationship with the people below you in the chain of command. As often as you can, listen and say yes. That's a nugget of beautiful advice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's so many people don't follow. As often as you can, listen to your people and say yes to what they are saying to you. As often as you can.


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[Assistant] Continuing on, eventually when a subordinate from the team comes to you with an idea that doesn't make sense, you can say no and they won't begrudge you for it. You simply explain the issues with their idea.


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[Assistant] And why you aren't going to do it that way and they will be okay with it. They will accept your direction without feeling that you don't listen and they will move forward with full commitment to accomplish the mission.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we just touched on this, and I give some good background on it, and then I say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As we try and, as we try and work to get our boss to support what we're saying, right? We make that effort. And I explain how to do that. And then we get,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To a point where I say, okay, but even that doesn't always work. Sometimes a boss digs in and will not change their mind. Is it time for mutiny?


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[Assistant] Is it time to draw a line in the sand? You could tell your boss, absolutely not, I will not do this your way. It might be time to say that.


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[Assistant] But it also might not be. There are many variables to assess. And I talk about some of those variables, but then I jump to, I'm gonna jump to here. Here are some possible outcomes.


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[Assistant] When the subordinate refuses to comply. So this is when you decide, you know what, my boss came up with this plan or my boss wants to do something and I will not do it. Here's some things that can happen. One, the leader recognizes that the subordinate is extremely concerned about the plan, so concerned they are putting their career at stake and risking possible, possible punitive actions because the plan is actually really bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is the best possible outcome. The leader, awakened by the refusal of his or her subordinate to execute a plan, reconsiders the options and decides to execute a different way.


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[Assistant] Now the subordinate should rejoin the team, throw their support behind the new plan and go help the team execute. So there's like the, the flowery outcome. You know, Dave orders me to do something. I say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dave, I refuse to do this. This is an unsound plan and I will not execute. And Dave goes, wow.


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[Assistant] But the team will absolutely suffer since now the voice of reason has been replaced by one of the boss's yes men.


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[Assistant] It will be the boss's plan and that is it. No one will have any choice or control. This is a horrible situation.


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[Assistant] To avoid it, consider the fact that since the boss is refusing to listen to suggestions about the plan, it is probable that the boss has a big ego and is likely to put a yes man in to execute his or her vision without resistance. If this is a possible outcome, it must be weighed carefully.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's bad. Continuing on, if a subordinate draws a line in the sand and refuses to execute a plan or outright quits the position as protest, they instantly remove all influence of any kind over the boss. So while the subordinate has made a very loud and clear statement, once that statement has been made, there's nothing else they can do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They are no longer a factor in the outcome and that's one of the questions I have about David Hackworth's decision to


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[Assistant] Be interviewed and state in an interview that if we didn't change the way we were fighting the war in Vietnam, we were going to lose. When he did that...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he kinda drew a line in the sand, he was out of the army very quickly, and out of command, and that was that. Which means he lost influence. And let's face it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He would've been a general. Who knows how high he would've gone, but he would've-


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[Assistant] He would have been a division commander, you know, I mean, eventually. And then maybe he could have influenced and moved the war in the right direction. But instead, he drew a line in the sand, and he lost all of his influence. So, now, let's put ourselves in David Hackworth's shoes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We see, we see men in the army, in the Marine Corps throughout grunts being killed in Vietnam and it breaks your heart every single time. And then he gets control of his own battalion and he starts to save their lives and they start to win. But no one else is doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And with his heart being broken over and over again, he can't take it anymore and says, you know what, I'm drawing a line and saying, can I see how that could happen? Oh absolutely. So.


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[Assistant] If the subordinate tries every possible method to convince the boss that the plan is wrong and sees no way of changing the boss's mind, then perhaps the better option is for the subordinate to make one last statement of concern.


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[Assistant] This way the subordinate leader can at least do their utmost to mitigate the negative impacts of the poor plan.


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[Assistant] The inherent risk is this, in this of course, is that as Napoleon said, the subordinate is still culpable for the outcome.


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[Assistant] Band of Brothers, Dick Winters. They get ordered to do a recon. The war is all but over. They get ordered to do a recon across the river. They go do the recon across the river. They have a guy get wounded. They have a guy get killed. They come back. The next night, his boss says do another recon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he says, boss, not a good idea. We didn't learn anything last night. However, we did lose a guy and another guy wounded. And it could be even worse. I recommend we don't do it. Nope, do the recon. Boss, uh, not a good plan. Do the recon. And what does Dick Winters do? Dick Winters says, got it, boss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool. Tell these guys, alright, we're doing a recon tonight. Of this basement, over in this building. And, uh, bring some wine. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So sometimes, and you know, I heard this about seal platoons in Vietnam as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Getting tasked with doing a patrol or an ambush in an area that was really bad, that they didn't feel like was gonna be a fruitful ambush and get ordered to do it and they're like, hey Roger that, Roger that boss, cool, patrol out the gate, go 200 meters into the jungle,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Set up a, set up a perimeter, sit there for six hours, come back, say yup, we didn't see anything. So, is that ideal? No. But, what are you gonna do? This, this is, these are the things you have to consider as a leader.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because how often is a boss getting told that there's gonna be a catastrophic outcome? Hey, boss, I think if we open this building, if we, if we get a lease on this building, we try and, we try and set up shop there, I think we're gonna lose a lot of money and we're gonna burn a bunch of our employees and it's gonna be a complete and utter catastrophe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the boss is like, hey, I still like it, go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Or in the military. Hey, boss, I am very concerned that we are going to take heavy casualties and there will be no gain. And the boss goes, no, I like it, go ahead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want you guys to approach the target from here. Well boss, I don't agree with that. Well,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm telling you to do it. Okay, well how catastrophic is that? Guess what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get on site and I'm gonna go, boss, you know, hey, pass the pro word, that, that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I wouldn't say that, but I'd say, now we're gonna have to approach from a different direction. Sorry. Did you say pro-word? Pro-pass the pro-word? Pro-word. Yeaah, they're just, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're like code words. And it's not like they're a secret, but you might want to tell the upper chain of command that we have passed through phase line red and we are now approaching the target building and instead of saying all that, you just say


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not zero, but it can't happen. It can't happen. It can't happen. And in those cases, you may have to fall on your sword and say, I refuse to do this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, don't think it ever happened to me. And I would say it's a pretty good statement because I think I would remember if it did. I'm gonna think about this though. I'm gonna think about if it ever, if I ever got ordered to do something that I was in complete and utter disagreement with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Boom. Alright, uh, skipping forward to another section here.


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[Assistant] Which is a good phrase. Powerful phrase, and I actually go through it pretty detailed.


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[Assistant] And how that helped solve this certain problem.


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[Assistant] I end up kinda going into an explanation of what the ego is, how it's playing out.


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[Assistant] Someone, someone that doesn't, someone that's got an ego, like, you might not even notice until you brush up against it, then all of a sudden it reacts.


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[Assistant] That if you subordinate your ego, you will get trampled.


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[Assistant] But that normally doesn't happen because subordinating your ego is actually the ultimate form of self-confidence.


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[Assistant] And I think that line right there is one of the lines when I was writing this book, I just like took a screenshot of it and texted it to you, Dave. I was like, that line right there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If, uh, because subordinating your ego is actually the ultimate form of self-confidence. That level of confidence earns respects, earns respect. So, while the initial thought or feeling might be that you back down, you've actually shown that you have the strength and confidence to give the other person credit and they will recognize and respect that confidence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They feel it. They feel it. Echo Charles, when you're getting ready to roll jujitsu.


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[Assistant] And you have never rolled with this person before. And you lock up with them.


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[Assistant] You know, right? You can feel it. Now whether you want to admit it or not, you know. And that's what this does. When someone says, hey, you know what, go ahead and run with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's basically what you're saying. That's basically what you're saying. You wanna start in a dominant position? Go ahead. It's fine. It's fine with me. I'm so confident in my jiu-jitsu that you can basically start anywhere. You can start in a totally dominant position and I'm gonna be fine. When you subdue your ego, when you subordinate your ego,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This person is confident, this person knows that they're gonna win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so that's the same thing that happens here. Hey, you know what, why don't you take, why don't you go ahead and run with this. And you go, yeah, that's right, I won. And in the back of your mind you think, man, Jocko doesn't even really...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't need to be the, I don't need to be the star of the show. Cause I'm just gonna be over here. And it's gonna be fine. You guys can, you can pay attention to the other guys. That's cool. I'll be over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm good with that. I don't need to say anything. I don't need to start in the best position.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm good. I'm confident. Been doing this game for a long time. We're good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It continues on, so after I say either uhm, they will recognize and respect that confidence either consciously or subconsciously. It says, and that is the truth. To put your ego in check. To subordinate your ego.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You must have incredible confidence.


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[Assistant] If you find you cannot put your ego in check because you're afraid it might look, might make you look weak, then guess what? You are weak.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't be weak, subordinate your ego, build relationships, and win the long game. That's a pretty important chapter in this.


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[Assistant] Kind of like when someone gets in your head on the map. Right? Yeah. When they go, cool, you can start wherever you want, bruh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, moving on to this next section. Core Tenants. The first one is called Be Capable.


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[Assistant] And ask for help. A leader must know and understand the jobs, skills, and equipment used by the people below him or her in the chain of command. This isn't to say a leader needs to be an expert in everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the manufacturing business, a plant manager might not be able to run each machine or handle every task on the line. But in these cases, the leader must at least be familiar with what goes on below him in the chain of command.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What should a leader do if he doesn't know or understand a skill or job that plays a role in the accomplishment of the mission? Simple. Ask.


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[Assistant] That's right, go and ask. And not just for an explanation. Ask, ask to learn and actually do. Sight in that sniper weapon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Program that radio, lay some block, run that piece of equipment for a little while, get familiar, and then actually practice the task. Unfortunately, most people avoid this process because they fear they will look stupid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was always impressed by a boss who would come and truly show interest in what we were doing on the front lines. I was even more impressed if they asked questions and wanted to really understand my perspective. And I would be completely impressed if the leader physically tried to do what I was doing. Program a radio, shoot an advanced weapon system, or build a demolition charge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you need help with something, ask for it. Subordinates understand that their leaders might not know everything. Put your ego in check and ask for help. You will do a better job and you will gain respect from your team. Stepping down and learning frontline skills also shows your humility.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It proves you aren't above what the frontline troops are doing and it shows you know their job is hard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is counterintuitive, even though it seems common sense from us looking at it right now, it's super counterintuitive because you think, well, I don't really know how to do the job so I'm gonna hide from it. So that way they won't know, and I won't look bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the most important tenets of leadership I adhere to as a leader.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is the idea of extreme ownership. The idea of extreme ownership has struck a chord with people.


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[Assistant] And it has been incredibly effective in helping those in all kinds of leadership positions, leading all kinds of teams in all kinds of industries, businesses, and professions. Leaders found that when they took ownership of everything in their world, they saw other members of their teams both up and down the chain of command taking ownership as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This can be hard to fully understand because there are times when a subordinate does something that the boss feels they cannot control and cannot possibly be responsible for. A subordinate might make a mistake or take an action that is completely unexpected. How can that be the leader's fault? I like to use the example of a young machine gunner in a seal platoon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Allowing the rest of the seals to maneuver. The machine gun provides the main source of cover in the fundamental tactic of cover and move, the first law of combat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course, the machine gun doesn't operate itself. It's worthless without the machine gunner. The machine gunner carries the weapon in its ammunition, maintains the weapon, loads and fires the weapon. Those are the mechanics of the job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A machine gunner must also be aware of how to best employ his weapon. He must understand how to get in good position.


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[Assistant] The terrain he is in. And see how it can be used to his advantage. And to the advantage of the platoon. And how the enemy can also use the terrain.


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[Assistant] To their advantage, if allowed to do so, the machine gunner must also understand his field of fire. Field of fire is the area of the battlefield a SEAL is responsible for. Whether a street, hallway, valley, or cardinal direction, in that area he must locate, locate, and engage the enemy.


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[Assistant] Because his job is to shoot, there generally isn't much leadership required from him. Machine gunners are almost always part of a small fireteam of four to six people, which is led by a fireteam leader.


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[Assistant] The lack of leadership opportunities being a machine gunner is a job that is generally held by relatively inexperienced new guys who are in their first or maybe second platoons. Because of the size of the machine gun, it is also often referred to as the pig, which makes the machine gunner a pig gunner.


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[Assistant] Also because of the size of the pig gun, it usually requires a seal who is slightly larger to carry it.


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[Assistant] It is not always true, it is common for new guys to be assigned as pig gunners if they are large framed, strong individuals.


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[Assistant] There is also an ongoing stereotypical joke in the SEAL teams that pig gunners, being big, strong new guys, aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Any new guy that does something dumb will be told he will make a good pig gunner.


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[Assistant] This is why the stereotypical pig gunner makes the perfect example of extreme ownership because the stereotypical pig gunner is going to make mistakes and they are a very easy target for blame. I heard it on a fairly regular basis from young SEAL leaders on training operations that I ran.


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[Assistant] The young leaders didn't fully understand their roles and the concept of extreme ownership. The training operations I ran were very complex and stressful combat simulations. We had a large budget for training and we utilized it to replicate the chaos and mayhem of combat to the best of our ability. We hired Hollywood set designers to make our training areas look like cities in Iraq or Afghanistan.


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[Assistant] We use role players to mimic the actions of both enemy combatants and friendly civilians. We simulated weapons with paintball or other high-end paint-marking rounds, or with multi-million dollar laser tags system.


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[Assistant] This simulated combat zone not only taught tactics, it was the ultimate leadership laboratory.


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[Assistant] And this is where I would see young SEAL leaders reveal that they didn't understand what extreme ownership really meant. Let's say your pig gunner, let's say a young pig gunner shot his weapon in the wrong direction outside his field of fire.


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[Assistant] When I would ask the pig gunner's leader what had gone wrong, it was very easy for him to say, well the pig gunner made a mistake, he shot in the wrong direction. Whose fault is that? I would ask.


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[Assistant] Well, the gunner aimed the weapon, he pulled the trigger, it is his fault, would be the reply. Actually, I would explain, it's your fault.


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[Assistant] How can it be my fault? He's the one that shot the weapon. The young leader would object. This was a pretty common response, but it was wrong.


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[Assistant] You see, if the pig gunner makes a mistake, it means he hasn't been trained properly. The leader is responsible for training the gunner.


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[Assistant] If the gunner shoots in the wrong direction, it means he hadn't been briefed. So he fully understands his field of fire. The leader is responsible for briefing the gunner. And yes,


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[Assistant] Could also mean the pig gunner is completely incompetent in understanding his task and knowing his field of fire. If that is the case, it is the leader's responsibility to identify that shortfall and either train the gunner so he does understand, remove the gunner from his position and place him into a job he is capable of, or as a last resort, fire the gunner from the team so he can- if he cannot do his job properly.


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[Assistant] So regardless of the reason the gunner failed, it is the leader's fault.


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[Assistant] A leader is responsible for everything a person on his or her team does. I even felt like this when one of my guys would get in trouble off base. If one of the SEALs who worked for me went out in town and drank too much and got into a fight, I always thought, where did I mess up? How did I fail to make that individual realize the consequences of his actions?


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[Assistant] Why didn't I know he was headed for trouble and keep him from going out?


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[Assistant] Taking extreme ownership means that leaders are responsible for every action the people on their team make. It is as simple as that.


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[Assistant] When a leader knows they cannot blame anyone or anything else, they will implement what I call preemptive ownership. They will take ownership of things to prevent problems from unfolding in the first place.


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[Assistant] of extreme ownership takes place preemptively before mistakes occur.


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[Assistant] So don't just take extreme ownership after the fact. Take preemptive ownership to mitigate problems before they even.


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[Assistant] Don't make that connection. Extreme ownership is not only in the past tense, it actually is the present tense and future tense.


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[Assistant] Long game strategy into this. Because.


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[Assistant] If what I do is, okay, there's no excuses, Dave, you're running this mission, uhm, cool, I'm gonna direct and I'm gonna, I'm gonna micromanage you to the point where I promise there'll be no mistakes.


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[Assistant] Okay, I, now, this is why you gotta throw some long game in there, some strategic vision. That's why it's in the strategy section. Because, if that's what I do, what have you learned?


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[Assistant] You haven't learned. You haven't figured out how to plan on your own. You haven't figured out how to execute the operation on your own. So,


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[Assistant] Even though you're responsible for everything, which you absolutely are, that doesn't mean that you do everything.


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[Assistant] And by the way, you can't do everything. You don't have the time or the cognitive capacity to handle and make every decision. You can't do it. So,


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[Assistant] Taking extreme ownership of everything doesn't mean doing everything yourself and micromanaging and making every decision at all. That's a short term and like, like we said earlier, that's like a brute force thing, it can work for a little while. Like I could be like, okay Dave,


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[Assistant] Oh, you're going to talk to a company. Cool. I'm gonna go with you. I'm gonna write your brief for you. I'm gonna, you know, sit in the back row and make adjustments as you talk. Okay, cool.


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[Assistant] I can do that one time, but what about Mike Cirelli who's out there? What about Andrew Paul? Am I gonna do it for everyone? What about Flynn? What about Lit? Am I gonna sit there and do it? No. Can't do it. It's impossible to do.


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[Assistant] So yeaah, I'm responsible for what we're saying, I'm responsible for our mission, but


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[Assistant] I gotta make sure that the training is happening, that the knowledge is there and then you gotta take a step back.


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[Assistant] Speaking of which, I'm jumping to this section called leading from the rear.


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[Assistant] One of the most common mantras that leaders hear is lead from the front.


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[Assistant] And it makes sense. After all, some critical things happen when leaders lead from the front. When a leader leads from the front, he or she is setting the example showing exactly what to do and how to do it. This model can be critical during fear inducing moments. There are many examples in combat where the situation is dire and it is leadership from the front that changes the outcome. Perhaps there is an


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[Assistant] Perhaps there is some open terrain to cross. Maybe there is an enemy sniper waiting to take a shot. Maybe there is a room with enemy fighters behind the door that needs to be entered. Any of these scenarios can cause people to become fearful and freeze. Who wants to risk death? But any of these situations-


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[Assistant] Most types of combat examples prove that someone needs to act. More often than not, that someone is the leader.


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[Assistant] When no one else has the courage to take action, the leader has to lead from the front. The leader has to charge across the open terrain, maneuvering in the enemy's sniper's line of fire, or breach the door to engage enemy fighters. If the leader doesn't take action, no one will, the troops will freeze, the enemy will seize the initiative, get the upper hand and win.


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[Assistant] It is not only combat situations where leaders need to lead from the front.


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[Assistant] In any situation that is stagnated because of fear or apprehension, a leader stepping up and taking action is a solid solution. The same is true of terribly arduous tasks.


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[Assistant] People tend to shy away from suffering. They will procrastinate and avoid getting started. But when the leader jumps in and starts attacking the job, others will jump in and get started as well. A leader must also lead from the front when it comes to setting a good example, treating people with respect, taking care of one another, and being professional at all times. If the leaders lead in this manner, others will follow.


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[Assistant] Examples like these prove there are plenty of times when a leader must lead from the front.


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[Assistant] So, plenty of times where a leader has to lead from the front. That absolutely makes sense. I've seen it, I've done it, it happens.


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[Assistant] Back to the book, when I served as a SEAL Assault Force Commander, I always tried to avoid being one of the first six to eight people to potentially, to enter a potentially hostile building during an assault. I did this because the first six to eight people would be clearing rooms, perhaps getting in gunfights, and at a minimum, detaining potentially resistant prisoners.


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[Assistant] If they were overwhelmed by a large number of detainees, who would call for reinforcements? If possible enemy personnel were seen departing the building, who would notify the external security elements that this was happening?


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[Assistant] In any of those cases, while the assault team was dealing with the immediate tactical problem, someone else had to lead.


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[Assistant] In those situations, it was, in those situations, it was on me to lead.


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[Assistant] My job was not to clear rooms, engage targets, or grapple with detainees. My job was to detach, assess all the dynamics of the situation, and get my men the support they needed.


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[Assistant] So when I approach the building, if I happen to end up as one of the people toward the front of the assault team, I would step back, high port my weapon, and let some of the other SEALs go in front of me.


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[Assistant] Planning is another time it is important to consider where to lead from. Instead of the leader coming up with a plan, the preferred method is to let the team members come up with a plan. Let it be their idea.


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[Assistant] When the leader allows the team members to come up with a plan, those members have already bought into it. There is no need to convince them of it. Of course, if the planning process gets bogged down or different members of the team can't agree on a course of action,


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[Assistant] And it just closes this out, but it is almost always preferred for the leader to lead from the rear to allow the troops to take lead on the plan and to take ownership of it. The best ideas often come from the people on the team who are closest to the problem. Those are the folks on the front line. Don't inhibit them. Instead, allow them the freedom and authority


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's, you know, Dave, you've been, uh, working with me long enough that you probably


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[Assistant] How long, how long have we been working together now? Three years. Three years. You probably see me, I'm gonna guess...


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[Assistant] Seven times in three years, you know, have something going on and me say, all right, here's what we're doing. Z, what do you think? Is that a good assessment?


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[Assistant] Seven or less. Seven or less and this is a lot of things. A lot of things. A lot of, I mean, hundreds and hundreds of decisions. Yes. That get made at Echelon Front.


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[Assistant] And seven times, it's been contentious enough or bogged down enough where it's like, okay, now we're not actually making progress and nothing's happening. And it's like, okay guys, here's what we're doing.


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[Assistant] You know, it's the same thing that when I was on a ground force commander, an assault force commander, I wasn't going to say anything. Because the guys knew what to do. And then occasionally, they didn't know what to do.


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[Assistant] Yeah, which also means, as you said earlier, the minute I have to go, okay, here's where we need to go.


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[Assistant] That whatever situation unfolded is a real opportunity to say, hey look, this is what


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[Assistant] This is what we need to do and here's why. So the next time we see this, we know what to do.


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[Assistant] Yeah, we can cover it. I got a whole section on there on when to step up and lead. Like when do you actually have to fill that leadership vacuum? How do you do it?


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[Assistant] And this is another one of those things that as I reflected upon, I was like, yeah, here's what I, it's so obvious to me, but never really articulated it because never really had the, never really got asked that


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[Assistant] Everyone just sees you do it, and they just think, okay, well I kinda get that, but no, you need to write that stuff down. Yeah, for sure. Uh, this is a section that you were talking about earlier today. The section is called Don't Care.


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[Assistant] And it's a form of detachment and people know about it because of the idea of negotiations, you know, the ability to walk away from negotiations. Oh, you don't want to, you don't want to lower your price? Cool.


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[Assistant] If you drill down, go into the book, if you drill down on things you care about, you will find that many of them are rooted in ego.


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[Assistant] You wanna utilize your plan instead of mine? Cool, I don't care. You wanna, you want me to do some crappy job for you that others find demeaning? Fine, I don't care.


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[Assistant] And then once again, this kind of ties back into this idea of like this supreme level of confidence, which is when you can put your ego in check, when you can subordinate your ego, it's because you're so, you have confidence.


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[Assistant] Those are two, those are, those are like clickbait titles, aren't they? Don't care and uh, lead from the rear. Yeaah. Those are clickbait titles. I just realized. Maybe I'll have to make, Echo, can you make a, you know, a couple videos with those? Don't care and lead from the rear. Yep. There you go. Clickbait.


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[Assistant] To your point, even though they sound clickbait, and they almost, I mean can you imagine going into Marine Corps and being like, okay, lead from the rear and don't care.


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[Assistant] So, and not to mention, we talked for already 20 minutes today about the fundamental thing that you're doing as leaders caring about your people. So yeaah, you have to read and fully understand what we're talking about here.


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[Assistant] It was fun, the last muster in Australia. There was a lot of this going on and it was cool because, you know, you rewind three or four musters ago and all of a sudden someone's saying, I want my slide here.


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[Assistant] Or, hey, I wanna use this font. Or, you know, I, I, I need this much time to cover this topic.


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[Assistant] And this time I, it was just, hey how much time do you, do you need to cover that? I don't care. I remember there was some conversation and I think Jamie,


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[Assistant] Was like, hold on, she was doing the calculation for how much time each person gets for each slot. And she's like, wait Choco, uhm, this thing that I gave you 45 minutes, can you cover it? It actually turned out to be only 20 minutes. And I was like, cool, don't care. Like, it literally doesn't matter.


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[Assistant] I'll talk about the subject for 20, or 45. It's fine. And, oh wait, someone else wants to cover that topic? Cool. I don't care. Let's do it. Whatever you want to do.


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[Assistant] Great attitude to have. Man, it makes your life easy. I mean, think about if you impose that, or not impose it, but if, think if you utilize that with your wife.


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[Assistant] Well, steak, girl. Let's go to a steakhouse. That's cool. And then she can, uh, she can lead by negation, right? No, I don't want steak.


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[Assistant] You know, there's gotta be a better way to phrase it in a domestic scenario. So, I think the way you phrase it in a domestic scenario is right here. That sounds good.


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[Assistant] You keep that under wraps, Echo Charles. Yes sir. Just, hey that sounds good.


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[Assistant] Hey, do you, what is she, oh yeaah, does your wife like to watch reality television? From time to time. Right. So, when she says, hey hon,


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[Assistant] Know what is important and what isn't. One of the things that distinguishes a black belt in jujitsu from a white belt is the black belt's understanding of what is important and what isn't. A black belt sees past insignificant movements, ignores trivial actions, and focuses on what actually matters. A good commander on the battlefield does the same thing. The commander can tell when the enemy is shooting.


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[Assistant] When the enemy shooting is merely reconnaissance by fire. A good commander understands when the enemy movement is just deployed. A good commander ignores things that will not have any impact on the battle.


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[Assistant] Like the black belt and the battlefield commander, any good leader must be able to do the same thing, discriminate between what is important and what is not.


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[Assistant] For a leader in any situation, changes are everywhere both external and internal. External changes can occur in the environment, the behavior of the enemy, the market, the weather, or the timing of a scenario. Internal changes can be emotions of individuals, relationship dynamics, or the morale of the team.


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[Assistant] And it is crucial, it is a crucial part of the leaders job to figure out which changes are important and which changes are mere distractions. This is not always easy to do. I see leaders get caught up in all the time in things that do not matter. They waste their time and energy on meaningless events or minor problems that will not impact the overall results they are trying to achieve. A black belt in jujitsu is a master of energy conservation.


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[Assistant] How will this problem impact the team's strategic goals? Can it cause mission failure? Is it worth my time and effort to engage in? How bad can it get if I leave it alone?


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[Assistant] The answers to such questions should make it obvious to a leader if a problem requires their involvement.


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[Assistant] It's called principles. And again, we're getting more and more granular, like as each section goes by, talk about who's the most important team member in a team.


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[Assistant] When you are going to whatever. You are going to get that thing off the bipod and shoot it. There's things that you're gonna do. You have to.


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[Assistant] Understand that, what the strategy is, and then yes, absolutely right, you have to use your brain.


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[Assistant] Fortunately, the more you understand the strategies and the more tactics you know and understand, the more effectively you can use your brain to overcome some of these scenarios that unfold in the real world.


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[Assistant] So we get into section three and again, talk about the most important team member. Talk about span of control so people understand what the best way is to do that. Talk about taking care of your people with discipline.


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[Assistant] Discipline is the best way to take care of your people from day one. As a leader in the military, you are told over and over again that you have to take care of your people.


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[Assistant] But some leaders get confused about what that means. They think taking care of your people means making sure they are comfortable and happy, coddling them, giving them as much time off as possible and not pushing them hard. This is wrong! In fact, the opposite is true.


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[Assistant] In the SEAL teams, if you really care about your people, you won't coddle them at all. You will push them hard, you will train them hard, you will make sure they understand the tactics of war and the weapons and radios they will operate.


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[Assistant] You will ensure they are in top physical condition and prepared for the mental and emotional stress of combat. You'll do everything in your power to prepare them for combat so they can, so they, so you can give them the highest probability.


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[Assistant] That they and the rest of the team return from the battlefield. If you really care about your people, you want them to go home to their families. The best way to make that happen is through hard training.


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[Assistant] The way they want to. So when you are a leader, the best thing you could do is push them toward their goals.


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[Assistant] And of course this drive has to be balanced. And then the reason I kind of had to put that in there because I wanted to go a little bit deeper on imposed discipline. Because I say over and over again that discipline shouldn't be imposed on people.


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[Assistant] And it usually has a bad outcome or at least has a negative


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[Assistant] Taste leaves a negative taste in people's mouths when you impose discipline on them.


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[Assistant] So going back to the book, optimal discipline in a team is not imposed by the leader, it is chosen by the team itself. Optimal, optimal discipline is self-discipline.


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[Assistant] How you do that? How do you impose that discipline without leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth? Good methodology.


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[Assistant] It's also a good way, this kind of leads into the next topic, which is PRIDE.


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[Assistant] Because pride is a, is a powerful force. When, when people have pride, it


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[Assistant] It can change an organization. Going back to the book, if there is pride, the team polices itself. The team will not allow substandard performance. Anyone who slacks off is corrected, not by the leadership, but by the team itself. That is the power of pride.


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[Assistant] What then of a team that lacks pride? Perhaps it doesn't have a storied history. Perhaps it doesn't have a history of victory to hold high. What then?


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[Assistant] It is one of the most critical tasks as a leader to instill pride in your team. How do you do that?


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[Assistant] How can you build the morale of troops and create the strong bonds of pride that result in an attitude where everyone on the team gives more than what is required?


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[Assistant] Cause that's the truth right there, right? You have a team that has pride, they're given more.


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[Assistant] Yeah, as, uh, I've talked about on this podcast before, the amount of times that I had to talk to a guy in tasking a bruiser because they were late is zero.


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[Assistant] Right? Was guys late? Yea, but it never made it to me. Right. They were getting tightened up on the front lines. Right? Oh, a guy doesn't have his gear squared away? Cool. You think I was down there counseling that person? No, they were getting tightened up. Old school. They were not going to make that mistake again. Why? Pride.


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[Assistant] So how do you get, how do you, how do you establish pride? Back to the book, the answer is simple, you give them the opportunity to earn it. Pride does not develop simply by telling team members that they are great or by hanging up banners. All the banners and signs and flags mean nothing.


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[Assistant] If they aren't earned to build pride within a team, you have to put the members in situations that require unity, strength and perseverance to get through. You have to push them in training to a point where they are truly tested.


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[Assistant] And in that they will develop pride in what they have accomplished.


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[Assistant] Skipping forward to another section here, it's called Yes Men. As a leader, you should not want to be surrounded by yes men.


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[Assistant] People who agree with everything you say. As a subordinate, you should not be a yes man. So this is like the counter to the whole


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[Assistant] Initial part of this conversation talking about, hey boss, yes, I got this. Yep, boss, I got that. Yep, you want me to do that extra paperwork. Yep, you want to cover there. Yeah, that's, that's totally true. And here we go in the other direction.


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[Assistant] As a subordinate, you should not be a yes man. You should speak up when something doesn't make sense. This concept sometimes worries leaders.


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[Assistant] That scares some leaders. Some leaders would rather just have their subordinates do exactly what they are told to do. But that is a bad idea. So, I get this all the time. It makes people nervous.


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[Assistant] But the problem is, when you're surrounded by yes men, it's your brain against the world, and your brain is not strong enough.


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[Assistant] You're going to make bad plans, bad decisions, and if all you have is a bunch of people that say, yes boss, you're right, you're going to end up in a bad situation.


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[Assistant] Do not surround yourself with yes men. And that means don't be one. Now this doesn't mean that you form bad relationships with your boss. And I actually, in the book, like, explain how to do that. What does this sound like?


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[Assistant] So you'll have the ability to speak properly and not develop an antagonistic relationship with your boss. You can get that in the book. You know, one more little section here for this part of the book, for the strategy part. The exception to no bad teams, only bad leaders and extreme ownership.


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[Assistant] We wrote that there were no bad teams, only bad leaders. We were not the first people to make this claim. Napoleon said there were no bad regiments, only bad colonels. And US Army Colonel David Hackworth said in his book about face that there were no bad units, only bad officers.


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[Assistant] Yet there are still people who feel that a bad team is a legitimate excuse for bad performance. This is simply not true. There are no situations and no exceptions where a subordinate is ultimately responsible for the performance of a team. It is always the leader's fault. And hey, imagine what I went through to write that sentence. That's a boooold sentence.


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[Assistant] There are no situations and no exceptions where a subordinate is ultimately responsible for the performance of a team. It is always the leader's fault.


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[Assistant] Believe me, I have racked my brain. Hopefully, maybe someone will come up with an example where that's wrong. I haven't figured one out yet. Going on, that being said, there is an exception to the rule.


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[Assistant] In the success or failure of a team, it happens when there are subordinates in the team who lead regardless of their rank


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[Assistant] They are tactful individuals who know how to lead despite not having been given official authority. And this is what you've been talking about a bit today, Dave, already, which is, look, you can have a bad leader and the team is good and they want to get the job done and they believe in the mission and they will win despite bad leadership. Despite bad leadership. Alright, so,


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[Assistant] We're approaching, we're approaching three hours I think right now. And we just finished. So that's a good place to take a break.


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[Assistant] And we will get back, so we finished the strategy part of leadership strategy and tactics. And on the next podcast, we will cover part two. Leadership tactics. Uhm, in the meantime.


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[Assistant] I guess if you like listening to us, I'm going to be talking some more at some live events.


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[Assistant] It's a classic example of what not to do. What did I do? I said hey, hey, we're not a rock band, we're not going on tour. And guess what I'm doing now? Going on tour.


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[Assistant] Doing some live gigs. January 6th in DC. January 11th in Austin.


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[Assistant] January 16th in New York, January 20th in LA, January 27th in Seattle, and January 28th in SF. Some of the gigs are already sold out. Go to JockoLive.com if you, if you want to come and


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[Assistant] So, I will be talking, I will be answering questions, meeting with you, looking forward to it, getting to those cities and hanging out with y'all. And what else? We talked a bunch about leadership today.


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[Assistant] Once again, amazing how Jiu Jitsu is a thread that is, runs through everything. Jiu Jitsu is life.


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[Assistant] I will say this, if you're wearing jeans, that A,


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[Assistant] That's why getting origin genes, which,


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[Assistant] Have stretch in them. Sure. You know, you can't tell from looking at them. It's not like you look at them and you go, oh, those are kind of some high fashion thing. No, they look like a pair of work jeans. But guess what? You're fully mobile. You're not pinned down. Slight fashions. No.


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[Assistant] Me. Okay, yeah. But you kinda stink of fashion.


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[Assistant] Well, good. So I'm glad you like that. But to answer your question, because I wasn't talking about fashion, I was talking about function. Functionally, yes, we're good to go. This is a positive thing. This is a positive thing in your life. On top of that.


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[Assistant] Why not do something where you are actually helping the country that you live in become a better place?


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[Assistant] Why would you not do that? Why would you not support the very country that provides you with the freedom to move?


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[Assistant] So you get a pair of jeans that give you the freedom to move, and then you support the nation that provides you with that freedom to move. The freedom to jiu-jitsu.


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[Assistant] Delta 68 jeans are the lightweight jeans. There's regular jeans, which is like when I go to Montana, I wear the regular jeans. When I am in Southern California or the more temperate regions of America, and actually most of the time, it's the Delta 68 lightweight jeans.


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[Assistant] You know what's interesting is, I mean, what's interesting is, when is the last time you just shipped a nice little box of, you know, Jocko Podcast t-shirts out to Pete?


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[Assistant] Speaking of supplementation, we also have supplementation at origin. And actually speaking of triggered,


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[Assistant] Dave Burke, mister, uhm, you know, hey, try and keep it clean and professional, in one of the outtakes, was describing how much he liked strawberry milk, and he dropped an F bomb.


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[Assistant] Because I made one the other day, and there's a little violation here, whatever. I'm coming clean to the world. So I had...


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[Assistant] You ever eat dinner and you're like, you know what, not only was it not satisfying,


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[Assistant] In volume, it was also unsatisfying in taste. Right? And I'm not gonna call out the person that


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[Assistant] So I got done and I had like, not just a craving for more food, but tasty food. Yeaah, yeaah. So, I made this mulk. I made, I said this right, milk, peanut butter, mulk.


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[Assistant] I got, you gotta try this. Oh that, okay. And then he, cause normally, if it's just really really good, I'm like, this is all mine. I made it.


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[Assistant] That's a good thing. I think, well I think what it was was, uh,


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[Assistant] You just you get that caloric deficit. Oh, yeah. So you're just thinking man That dinner was just didn't have enough So i'm getting crazy. So yeah, we got supplements more


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[Assistant] But it might give you a little kicker. It'll give you a kicker. There's some caffeine in it. Yes sir.


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[Assistant] And will you feel like a food snob and start looking down on other people when you get done drinking a Jocko White Tea because it's certified organic? Will you start looking down your nose a little bit at people? Potentially yes. And say, oh.


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[Assistant] Mama's fired up. She's like, oh yea, I am representing. We gotta make a shirt. We gotta make a good deal, Dave. Just for her. That's just got your face on it. So she can just be.


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[Assistant] And speaking of which, factually, so when's the new Top Gun come out? Summer of 2020. Oh man, okay, well we'll do, what's the bet, we need to do a, uh, uh, uh, like a fight recap of it, right? A breakdown of it.


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[Assistant] So we'll, we'll, we'll do that. And, and what's the, what do you think the, when will it be out on like, uh, Netflix where we can like actually watch it as it's doing it and comment on it without violating the, you know, the, the copyright laws or whatever?


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[Assistant] Yeaah. Yeaah. It was good. It's kind of interesting. Dave was on the podcast before. And we talked through that entire thing. Yeaah, I know. And explained the entire thing. And just kind of FYI.


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[Assistant] And Leif Babin is Navy Seals. He saw Navy Seals and was super fired up for Navy Seals.


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[Assistant] Right, uhm, reviews of the podcast, that's a good way to give us feedback. Yes sir. On the podcast. So you can write, hey, I think the support section should be much longer.


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[Assistant] I don't think I hear you talking enough about origin genes. Yeah, yeah. I need way more info. Yeah, yeah, you're right. That's a lot. So if you want to add that to the commentary, go leave a review. Do it. Go leave a review. And don't forget we have other podcasts. We got a podcast called The Grounded Podcast, which Dave Burke has been on. It's not what people expect, apparently.


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[Assistant] Is it about jiu-jitsu? Kind of. Is jiu-jitsu about life? Very much so. What is it about then? About everything. About life? Relaxed version. Like you're gonna get relaxed fit jeans if your jeans were uhm,


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[Assistant] I think those are skinny jeans. Yeah. Well, you can get relaxed fit. Right.


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[Assistant] Jocko podcast is the, is the fatigues, is the uniform.


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[Assistant] So check that out. And then there's Warrior Soap.


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[Assistant] IrishOaksRanch.com wore your kid soap, Aiden, on a farm. And you know what he learned on a farm?


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[Assistant] Also, you can get, uh, Psychological Warfare, which is an album, which will help you through moments of weakness. Also, you can get FlipsideCanvas.com, Dakota Meyer.


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[Assistant] From Bodcast 115, he has a company where, an American company, American made.


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[Assistant] Graphic representations of the path and other cool looking stuff. So you can check that out. Got some books. We've been reviewing Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual.


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[Assistant] Dave Burke was one of the first people. Actually, I think you might have been the first person to read some semblance of it.


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[Assistant] I can see by your reactions today, it's approved.


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[Assistant] And then there's the Way of the Warrior Kid series. Way of the Warrior Kid 1, 2, and 3. Those are all. You know what? You can get your kids on the path right now. You can point them on the path. You're not going to impose discipline on them. You don't even have to. It will work for you.


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[Assistant] Get your kids, get your nephew, your niece, some random kid down the street. Get those kid, the warrior kid books. It's, I, the feedback that I get of the impact that it's having is beyond comprehension. It's awesome. Then you can help a kid.


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[Assistant] Can help a kid so much. Get them those books. If you got a little, little kid, get them Mikey and the Dragons. So that when the entire world is something to be afraid of, they learn how to overcome fear.


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[Assistant] And then we got Extreme Ownership and the Dichotomy of Leadership, which are the books that I wrote with my brother Leigh Fagben about leadership. Some of the principles that we talked about today, these are the fundamental versions of those. The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.


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[Assistant] And then there's Echelon Front, which is our leadership consultancy where we take all these things that we talk about and we align.


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[Assistant] leaders inside of organizations to work together and win. Go to EchelonFront.com for details on that. EF Online. What about EF Online Dave?


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[Assistant] But it is not weak when you do it. I thought it was going to be weak when we first came up with the idea. I was like, okay, well, we'll just kind of suffer through some weak technology and bor- no, it's not. It's totally legit.


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[Assistant] It's interactive. You actually have to answer questions. You have to actually make decisions. So efonline.com. We got the muster.


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[Assistant] Leadership, seminars, events, conventions, that the entire Echelon Front team executes. Go to ExtremeOwnerShopOwnership.com for details. Muster 2020, this is where we're gonna be. We are going to be in Orlando.


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[Assistant] We are going to be in Dallas and we are going to be in Phoenix, Arizona. So if you want to come to one of those musters,


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[Assistant] That's what we're doing. There's only three a year. We're not gonna go to whatever random town you live in.


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[Assistant] And, and then we have EF Overwatch and EF Legion. Dave, EF Overwatch and EF Legion, what do you think?


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[Assistant] And we're, we're doing some things with EF Legion to, EF Legion, if you're a vet or you're in right now and you think you're ever gonna have some other kind of job or you're ever gonna get out of the military, which you are, I hate to tell you.


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[Assistant] Go to EFlegion.com right now and get yourself enrolled in the system. We're offering, we're gonna be offering webinars on how to like make that transition. You're gonna have, you're gonna be able to, other companies are gonna be able to look at you as a candidate. They're gonna be able to see you and you're gonna be able to see what they're looking for.


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[Assistant] So go to EFlegion.com for that. So legit. And if you still want to hear from us after however many hours we've been talking, then we are all available on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram, and on DatFace.


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[Assistant] Dave is at David R. Burke, Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink, and to all those military folks out there that are holding the line currently. And when I say currently, I mean right now, right this moment in time,


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[Assistant] There are folks out there holding the line and protecting freedom and democracy for us. So to all of you right now,


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[Assistant] Thank you for what you're doing. Same thing here at home. We got police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service and all those first responders.


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[Assistant] And guess what? Everyone is a leader. You're leading your team, you're leading your family, you're leading your friends. That's what you're doing.


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[Assistant] And then take that frame of mind and go out there and get after it.


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[Assistant] And until next time, this is Dave Burke, and Echo, and Jaco.


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[Assistant] That was much longer after I joined in 1939.


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[Assistant] That, uh, I went to a couple of, we meet just like the National Guard once a week.


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[Assistant] And then I went on, went, went to college, Washington State University, and, uh,


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[Assistant] And had one year, one year of college. And, uh, went to, went to two encampments with the, with the Organized Reserve. One, the first one is San Diego. The second one is to Bremerton.


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[Assistant] The Japanese taken over and blocking the supply line from the United States to New Zealand and Australia.


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[Assistant] They didn't, they didn't for a long time. They would have if it hadn't been for, uh, uh, uh, uhm,


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[Assistant] At my age I'm having a little difficulty recalling names anymore.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, about a, about a, about a month before we finally left.


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[Assistant] And had no idea where we were going. We thought, well, it could be the East Indies. We had no idea.


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[Assistant] But, on the other hand, we knew it pretty much was going to be going to Guadalcanal because we were having difficulties there.


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[Assistant] Okay, uhm, after we've been on Samoa for about three or four months, uh, I was now a corporal, as a squad leader of a machine gun, light machine gun squad, and uh,


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[Assistant] And, uh, it lasted six weeks. And here as a corporal, I was one of those selected to get a field commission.


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[Assistant] To second lieutenant and at that time we had no means of even getting, uh, getting second lieutenant bars. It had, it made one down at the, uh, where they, where their, where their, uh, our aircraft were.


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[Assistant] Alright, we did. And then, and then, next, next thing would matter of, in the first fire in November, this was only a month after I was commissioned, uh, here we were aboard a ship heading to Lord knows where, turned out to be Guadalcanal.


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[Assistant] And here I am entering combat with the same group that I had been enlisted in before, the same company.


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[Assistant] Fill the ranks with a new platoon commander. And that's a long story after I, how I got into the actual action of itself.


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[Assistant] In this case, it was opposite direction where the front lines were. The Japanese had landed way, way, way south of us.


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[Assistant] And there was concern that they were going to come in and envelop us from that location. So, our, uh,


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[Assistant] Our regiment moved out to head them off and, uh, going through jungle and in the night and, uh, we didn't know.


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[Assistant] All you could do is sounds. Park was a half Korean and half, uh, half Irish.


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[Assistant] Yes sir. I, I, I, I had a lot of contact with him after the war as well.


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[Assistant] No, no, he was new just like the rest of us. We're all new to combat.


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[Assistant] This right near a place called Point Cruz, by the way. And today, it's a city, well, of over 20,000. That's the capital of the, of the Solomon Islands.


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[Assistant] I didn't know it was going to be anything like that. To imagine, roughly 12 transports full of troops. All but three of them were sunk. And the three that did beach


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[Assistant] The troops got off, but all their supplies and stuff remained on. And, and we, uh, our planes bombed, bombed that, and our artillery did. So we had those, we, we had to reckon with those troops that came, got off those transports. As the next, over the next week or so.


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[Assistant] We had seen a massive combat. It was incredible. And we were in a ringside seat.


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[Assistant] Can you imagine a convoy like that, that many transports?


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[Assistant] They, they probably matched our numbers at that time, if they had all gotten ashore, but they didn't. Yep.


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[Assistant] Now pretty soon you're going to be getting into a part that's my, my first encounter of very close calls with Losing Me Alive.


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[Assistant] Boy, he spotted me. I was no longer somebody to harass. I was somebody that was going to kill him. Now we had a duel, a duel going on.


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[Assistant] Now we're going to get a little bit, a little bit later than this. Now I take, I took over the platoon, second platoon. The platoon leader was yellow. He wouldn't, he wouldn't get up out of his hole. So now I'm in charge. And you're going to get into what the close calls I had there. Boy, they were, they were mighty close. Unbelievable. I don't know how I survived it.


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[Assistant] No, this was it. This is it. And it's about as close as, as close to a call as it can be, I tell you.


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[Assistant] Now, at the same time, we're running low on ammunition as well.


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[Assistant] And we sent back a call, we need more ammunition. Next thing we know, bandolier after bandolier of ammunition started arriving. Just the same, the same, go at it guys.


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[Assistant] But I saw the dire situation. Here we were in a situation that we, we had to, we, we were committed.


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[Assistant] So we, we, we had no more fighting. We had a, we had a firm.


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[Assistant] Defense line along the ridge for a month. Just, just held the line. Continually setting up reconnaissance patrols, make sure you know what they were doing, what they were doing. And I led a number of reconnaissance patrols myself, taking out four or five men with me.


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[Assistant] Finding out where they were, that was a scary situation too, all these reconnaissance patrols.


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[Assistant] Well, let me tell you about that. My company commander had been a journalist with a New Orleans paper. So he's good at writing up things. So I recommended something written up on him. He wrote this up in such a manner that a historian


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[Assistant] Did we talk about that there? No. Okay, he's now, he, the last thing before he died, he's looking at a photograph of his family or his girlfriend. He's laid out there, and that's the last, the last, as dying, as he's dying, he was looking at that.


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[Assistant] Two out of eight. There's actually, there's three more on Guadalcanal that you'll get to in a little bit.


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[Assistant] They were usually somewhere right on the first slope in front of us. They were dug in like gophers, like gopher holes.


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[Assistant] There was a sergeant from the adjacent company.


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[Assistant] And he had a Tommy gun and he didn't have enough action going on where he was. Instead he was coming down the line where there's every action, he wanted to get into it. Well he came right by where I was.


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[Assistant] He lost, he lost two legs and an arm. And he was, there was an article in the Saturday Evening Post about it, and saying that, at least I have the right arm to wrap the bar with for a drink.


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[Assistant] Probably the case, yeaah. And they would sneak in on us every now and then. Make a little...


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[Assistant] And it turned out we're in a little bit higher than we were, so he'd look up at us and we were on the skyline from his, from his perspective, we're on the skyline.


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[Assistant] And that we would have, he said, well, you're going to attract fire, being up there. Well, he was partially correct, but not entirely. Well, anyway, as we, as we left, my man says, see, there, there are two or


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[Assistant] Two or three snipers in a tree right over their CP. What should we do? I said, shoot them! So we shot them, killed them, and told the colonel we just shot three snipers right over their CP.


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[Assistant] And later on, later on when I returned in 1982, there's a, there's a big Catholic church right there now. And I talked to the, to the, uh, not a priest, but the next one up, was there, and I was telling him about it.


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[Assistant] I was out in the water and he was all tangled up in his parachute and everything else, telling about it. Well later on that day we saw, we saw Joe Foss.


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[Assistant] And that's where he was out there this time. And uh, he came to me and he says, you know, I just heard you talking. I was there.


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[Assistant] And for some reason or other, something happened, he changed his pants or something, and then we're all like, oh, I'll get some more.


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[Assistant] That's the one I took over from and then, where I almost got killed.


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[Assistant] You know, during the times that we were, we were back behind the front lines,


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[Assistant] And all that stress, you know? Now you, now you don't have to worry about it.


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[Assistant] You know, somebody pull it, pull it. It was a stupid thing. Threw a hand grenade dummy into a tent. Everybody just took off. Why would a guy do that? I don't understand. He thought it was funny.


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[Assistant] They eventually got, took 10,000 troops off. We, we didn't know they'd done that.


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[Assistant] One, one thing that was wrong with their strategy that they, they attacked


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[Assistant] Facing heavy machine gun fire, just like the Japanese did.


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[Assistant] They had it so easy on moving all down through the, uh, through the, uh, the East Indies and all that. And it's just, everything just, just faded away and they just kept going, no problem at all.


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[Assistant] That's where the, we turn the tables, now we're, now we're in the offensive.


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[Assistant] And I did that because we, uh, we were asked to talk to a Japanese in Los Angeles. There's a Japanese, a Japanese area there. And, uh,


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[Assistant] The, uh, the priest there suggested I do that. He couldn't speak any English. But through the translation I knew that that's what he had to do. And so we sent it to the, uh, to the relatives of, uh, Phil that I worked with at North American Aviation. And, uh,


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[Assistant] And when they, uh, uh, they came to play baseball in this country after the war, and they lost. So they had lost face, so to speak.


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[Assistant] So they wanted to go back with something, so they took this, all of these items that I had taken off of these soldiers, that we're talking about here, and they put it in a white box, strung around their neck,


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[Assistant] You know, and also, you know, where we, uh,


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[Assistant] We were asked to attend this Buddhist ceremony, and my family had made three daughters with me, and here were the first ones in line, and you were supposed to, you were supposed to, you had to carry these incense, and there was a gong, and it goes on, and a whole bunch of stuff. We led that procession as it went by.


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[Assistant] Then after that, we, we had a, uh, a get-together of sukiyaki and, uh, and beer in, in the parsonage. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And I'd be real careful what I said, you know. I had my friend as a translator be real careful. They didn't call him Japs, you know, and all that.


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[Assistant] And then on, on Saipan, and I was talking to Donnie Edwards, we were there at


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[Assistant] And one of them faces south, kneeling, a mother, mourning over her loss.


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[Assistant] Her son's lost in the South Pacific. The other is facing


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[Assistant] The suicide cliff mourning the children that were carried over the cliff to be killed.


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[Assistant] And what was happening was they were just putting in a new monument. They don't have the new captions yet. And I was explaining to Donnie what that was all about.


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[Assistant] And it's on, it's, it's on, uh, uh, uh, Instagram. Okay. Go to Instagram and you go to Best Defense Foundation and it'll tell about it.


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[Assistant] No, well, yeaah, they could, but when you get into Saipan, I'll explain there how would we...


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[Assistant] We saw a hundred, over a hundred doing that as we advanced. And they could have shot back at us. They didn't. Instead, they just, we got so close.


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[Assistant] She was dead in the trunk. They found her body in the trunk of the car, been murdered, and they got this, this same time as when he, the family found out about Lund.


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[Assistant] Now, regarding those bodies, uh, a year or so ago, the, uh, the organization that


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[Assistant] But the, uh, the guy that, uh, he was, he was a doctorate, and, uh, he, he says, I just, I just ran out of Wiggle Room, money-wise. Couldn't do it.


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[Assistant] It was approaching 23, 22. She's still alive. She's 95 now.


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[Assistant] I mentioned that when I spoke in the Marine Corps League, you know, the Marine Corps birthday balls and all that. And I mentioned that leadership aspect. Now you've written books about it too, I know.


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[Assistant] Yeah, we lost over 1,100 killed and 2,500 wounded in three days, most of in two days.


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[Assistant] And the main reason that naval gunfire wasn't all that effective is that we're just only, you know, the land was only about six foot above sea level. So things, most of it was just going over. If it hit there, it's just such a narrow target. And what it should have done is landed on an adjacent island.


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[Assistant] See the problem was that uhm, it was just barely three feet what we require for an LCVP to clear the reef. But, we got hung up with their big guns.


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[Assistant] The battalion was supposed to land on the next island up.


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[Assistant] Hey, oh, we need to write down here in the middle where the worst of it was. Here we had our guys on the beach and here the enemy was shooting over their head right at us out there. We couldn't do anything about it.


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[Assistant] Uh, British transport, and it was beached, it had been run before we landed there, sometime before, about time before Pearl Harbor. And run up on the reef.


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[Assistant] See the problem is that the, uh, top command thought we'd already landed.


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[Assistant] And nobody, and nobody else I talked to really knew who this guy was. He was new to the outfit. He was a sergeant. He was new. So, but nobody knew him. They reunited and didn't know him. Yup.


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[Assistant] And then as he, as he, he and I were being lifted up, uh, by the, uh, by the transport. Mmhm. In a bad, sub-inside in a basket. And, uh, remote, or it says, just as we were, okay, just brought up from the landing boat.


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[Assistant] In, in, in, in this basket. Taken and risen up to the, uh, to the, uh, transport. So. And I made a comment. He says, looks like, looks like we made it. His comment was, you've made it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, just go to it by my name, just Dean Ladd. There is a poem in there called Curtains of Fire. And it goes into great detail, similar kind of words, but done a little differently. And, uh, it's, so that's where it's all spelled out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it exited, missing my spinal nerve by a quarter of an inch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I returned this last time, I found out where he was buried.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, yeaah, you take, uh, the same smut wine your Weinberger use.


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[Assistant] He's incredible. He does a lot of writing. Uh, see he worked with, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There were two brothers. One brother was killed. His younger brother was killed on, on Guadalcanal by the time when I almost got killed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A number of years ago, uh, Murdoch, I and another one or two went to a big memorial for him in, uh, in New York, New York, overlooking the Hudson.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we had one Lieutenant General, uh, Boomer, uh, was with us. And he was one of the spokesmen for the, for the, uh, uh, the fighting that you were involved in. He was the guy, the main guy. So he was there with us. But, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we, uh, we had a big ceremony in a big Catholic church. We had a parade downtown, through downtown. It was a big event.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, the name, the name of the book is called, uh, uh, let's see, what they called, uh, called Heavenly... something or other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, Nasukuni Shrine for one place. You know, the officers especially. We will meet again in Nasukuni Shrine. And this one officer that I met on Guadalcanal, in who I got to know real well, we corresponded for about 15 years. And, uh, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When they die, sometimes they would cut off their fingernails and that would be sent back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now this one, this one, one fellow who had just been killed, he was in a gopher-like hole, we were just starting our final drive. And, uh, that's where I got the diary from him and the thousand hole stitch belt and all that kind of stuff. And, uh, anyway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it belonged to his, his girlfriend or something. Anyway, I was gonna send all that back, and, uh, that, when, when the, uh, when a soldier was killed, the wife, and that would have been his wife, the wife is supposed to take care of his family. Instead, she had remarried, and she felt bad about it. When she saw this, saw what he had written that wanted her to remarry, what a difference that made. Oh yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Real determined group fighting there. And that's where we lost my, one of the people that's in this picture here, uh, he got shot by a fellow down in a hole, like a little spider hole, what do you call it? And up in his gut and killed him instantly. He died thinking that, he died thinking that I'd just been killed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I went, I visited his family in, uh, in, uh, Tennessee, uh, afterwards, and they were still so sad that they didn't even want to hear more about it. Didn't even want to talk to me about it. You know?