[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, able to engineer it, you know, in a better way over a longer period of time. What could we do? And the result is the car we have now. And it's, from my point of view, night and day better compared to an MR22. All of those things translate into lap time. It's not just the aero package or the visible surfaces, all of these things under the skin, which make the car, as far as I'm concerned, what it could have been.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it's difficult to look at relative performance to other teams even over the course of three races because as you can see it is very variable depending on track. I think also it depends what you mean by relative performance as well because we know that qualifying performance is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, down to the one lap in Q3, it can be related to tyre preparation.


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[Assistant] It's very clear at the moment where the pecking order is. We have been, I think, genuinely the second quickest car over the, you know, at least two or of the three races that we've, we've seen so far.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is great, but where we sit relative to Red Bull, I doubt has changed very much. If it has, it's probably just because we've understood the car a little bit more. Which does happen, you know, if you don't necessarily have to put updates to the car to make it go faster, you just improve the setup, the drivers get used to it, the feedback gets more specific and you evolve the car that way.


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[Assistant] Well actually, it's not really any kind of physical aspect of the car. What I'm most proud of is the fact that


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[Assistant] We took a team of people that have traditionally produced very good cars for the budget that they had and we've, we've managed to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Make small changes to working practices or small changes to the approach to develop the car. And we've taken essentially the same team of people who for various reasons did produce a car that was disappointing in terms of performance. And then a year later we have something which is now the sort of talk of the paddock. I think that's probably the most.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's incredibly passionate team, you know, incredibly knowledgeable group of people and people who've, some of whom have stuck through this team through thick and thin, you know, they've seen some incredible changes and some real lows, I think as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, honestly, I thought the, I knew it would be smaller, but actually now because of the, you know, there's a fairly sort of aggressive growth strategy for this team, a lot of which had happened before I got here. So there are a lot of people in place compared to what I'm used to as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That wasn't necessarily true, but I did expect it to be smaller I think. But also I think inevitably maybe it's a slight arrogance about coming from a team that is at the, you know, the front of the grid that you sort of imagine that people do things not in a correct way or they're slightly behind or some of the technology is slightly behind. And there are definitely things that we can still do better, but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I was really surprised about is the talent, the overall level and just the level that people are operating at. You know, it is no different from a top team. So, you know, the ingredients of what makes a team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, that's a mystery, who knows what makes a team win races and championships, but, but I think, you know, if one of those ingredients is a lot of passionate, talented people who are working hard, well, this team absolutely has it.


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[Assistant] That's something I should have expected because I think their past performances has shown that they can compete at quite an extraordinary level really given their budgetary situation.


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[Assistant] I think that was a shock to be honest. You know, a really, really pleasant surprise, as you can imagine.


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[Assistant] That kind of overview in terms of a job. I mean, I'm having to sort of force myself not to get too involved in some of the kind of minutiae. I'm not the type of person that likes to micromanage people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm very much in favor of allowing people to, you know, to sort of explore the boundary of their own responsibility and to kind of own their, their area. I've had to sort of take a step back away in some respects, you know, aerodynamics is my background and my passion. So I'm obviously very heavily involved in that and trying to sort of help define the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The shape of the car. What was different really is that this is an organisation which is growing.


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[Assistant] At a rate of knots, both in terms of the people we have, but in terms of the organization, what we're looking to achieve, how we're looking to introduce new processes and so on. And actually being part of that and being part of those strategic decision-making discussions is, is the thing that's probably the most different. So that sort of overview and thinking strategically and into the future.


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[Assistant] That's a very good question. I don't, I honestly don't know. I think I've met so many people who've ended up in technical directors positions, or are technical directors now.


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[Assistant] That have a vast array of qualities. I think provided they work within the organization well, I don't think there is necessarily a blueprint. I'd like to think that I have my own, my own style of doing things, but it wouldn't suit everybody. Perhaps it wouldn't suit every, every other team on the grid either.


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[Assistant] No, not at all. I mean, we like to discuss things and, um, you know, Mike is, he has a technical background. Mike Crack is obviously our team principal, but he does have a technical background and, and he, you know, wants us to discuss things in an, in an open environment. So I can rubber stamp things in some areas, but essentially we, we make decisions as a team.


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[Assistant] We have a, a highly experienced and very skilled group of people in Tom McCulloch, Eric Blondin obviously came from Mercedes, Luca Fabato as well. So we've got some real talent there and we, we like to try and make particularly the, the sort of strategic or the important decisions. We'd like to make those as a group.


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[Assistant] And as we evolve that kind of group of people, I think we become more effective.


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[Assistant] Well, I mean, I've never been shy about giving my opinion, so if I feel passionate that we should go one way or the other, then I'll say so. And so far I've found that, you know, we are a very like-minded group of people, we can challenge each other, but, you know, if I really passionately believe we should do something, it generally tends to get accepted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We are obviously interested in what happens with this as a, as a large company. We're not just a Formula One team, you know, we have engineering sort of businesses on the side of that as well now.


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[Assistant] And these very strong links to Aston Martin and Lagonda. So we do strategize about that. We do sort of think about how we can use that expertise in Formula One to sort of broaden the experience across the group. But you know, that's very clearly his remit now and, uh, you know, that's something he's really working hard on to sort of try and expand that in the future.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's difficult to see a car being developed. As I found with Valkyrie as well, or any of the work that Adrian was doing, it's difficult to have a car like that being designed in the office next door and not take an interest. But I have to be conscious that, you know, my day job is very much F1, so I have to try and focus on that, which I'm trying to do at the moment.


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[Assistant] I think the main thing that you can do, it sounds very trite, but really it's just focusing entirely on the communication.


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[Assistant] It's one of the things that falls over when you get confusion about people coming in. It's the first thing that goes wrong is that people stop communicating in an effective way. People become frustrated. They lack the understanding of where the decisions are being made.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Getting the right groups of people in one room at the same time and, you know, letting them air their frustrations or talk about why things are challenging. And I think the other thing you can do is just sort of day to day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, speak to people at their desks, get groups of people huddling around a, you know, workstation to look at things and you...


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[Assistant] You make that the sort of genesis of the team and that breaks down a lot of barriers because it, you know, we, we don't operate as an organisation chart. You know, we don't, we don't have hierarchies when we're in meetings. None of that is, you know, so that doesn't really exist in practice. It's just on a piece of paper. So how you interact with each other is very much how you behave day to day in my opinion. So.


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[Assistant] I believe you can break down a lot of barriers or get rid of a lot of frustrations by talking to people and also making sure that people are talking to each other. Because quite a lot of the time that's the first thing that goes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I think we're pretty much there. I mean, we're always looking to what the next version of Aston Martin F1 looks like is one of the things you asked about. What do you have to do differently? Well, one of the things I now think about is


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[Assistant] What's the team going to look like in a year's time or three years time? You know, Lawrence has got a very ambitious target, but, um, you know, one thing's for sure is we won't look as the same as we do now in three years time. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, how, how are things going to change? But you know, notwithstanding that, you know, we are in a good shape at the moment. We've got, I think, the right number of people. We may need to expand in some areas in the future if things change, but as, as it stands in the moment, we've got, you know, the right people, the right talent. The main thing we need to focus on now is just getting the best out of people and making sure that we carry on the good work that we've done so far.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's a very present character. I mean, for somebody in his position who has, you know, multiple businesses and lots of interest in all kinds of different things, uhm, he does like to spend time here. I think he's very passionate about this team.


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[Assistant] Which is honestly one of the things that attracted me here in the first place. His passion. Oh absolutely, yeah. He's incredibly passionate about Formula One.


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[Assistant] You know, obviously it has this very strong link to Formula One and this team with Lance as well.


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[Assistant] He brings a huge amount of energy. Uh, you know, we talk a lot about new energy in this company.


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[Assistant] It's a sort of phrase for us at the moment and he is a big component of that. You know, he brings a huge amount of passion and energy and the fact that he comes here pretty much every week, you know, he wants to talk to people. He wants to know how things are going. He wants to, you know, challenge us about, you know, well, what are we thinking about next and how are we going to sort of expand this? How are we going to do that? You know, he likes to know that we've got a plan. He likes to know that we're,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he can very much. His presence and his attitude and the way he interacts with people, the way he interacts with the media even. I think sometimes we underestimate that. The face that we put out to the rest of the world is hugely important for everybody who works here. You know, we've seen a huge amount of engagement with...


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[Assistant] Our sort of front man, our voice, he's the figurehead at the top of the organisation. So the way that he projects the image of Aston Martin and what we're trying to do is incredibly important to everybody here.


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[Assistant] Yes, to be honest, I didn't have an awful lot to do with DJ Massachusetts, but on the occasion I did, and certainly by reputation, I think they do share that sort of level of passion for the sport.


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[Assistant] Which goes back many years. I mean, Lawrence has been involved in the sport, either peripherally or directly for a number of years. And, uh, you know, that, that sort of understanding of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of the highs and lows about what's involved in being part of the sort of great circus that we call F1. I think that's one of his strengths, you know, because he really understands the business. He knows that it's not, it's not all going to be great and glamorous and fantastic.


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[Assistant] So I think what makes Red Bull great is that they've spent a long time with a very clear direction. So ever since Adrian and Christian took over the team, or Christian took over the team and then Adrian joined shortly afterwards, one of the things that Adrian brought to the team was a very clear direction in terms of what they want to achieve.


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[Assistant] Dietrich Mateschitz obviously put a huge amount of money into it and, as we've said, was very passionate about Formula One and what he wanted to do with the team, but really all he could do


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[Assistant] It's been a project for ever since Adrian joined, you know, and it's followed in his mould and his ideas ever since the outset. What we as a management team, when I was working there, were really tasked with was making sure that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We adhere to that vision whilst growing the teams in all the areas that we knew that we needed to grow in. You know, really they've had the advantage of a very big budget, very clear vision, being able to attract some incredibly good people, both as, you know, as graduates, but also from, from other teams throughout the years.


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[Assistant] But we produced a really functional, well communicating team of really highly motivated and talented engineers with a tool set, which is the envy of the grid. So.


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[Assistant] A huge amount, but equally there, you know, I talk a lot about us doing things the Aston Martin way. Um, one of the things I was very keen to do is not to try and replicate working methodology and the practices that we had at Red Bull, even if we did, then we did them with eyes open.


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[Assistant] So knowing that that was simply the best way to do things for Aston Martin. And I'm, you know, I still absolutely believe that. We cannot.


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[Assistant] Beats teams like Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari by absolutely replicating everything they do.


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[Assistant] So we need to find our own way of doing things and we need to make sure that, you know, in the years to come that they, you know, looking over the fence at us thinking,


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[Assistant] Goodness me, how have they managed to achieve that? That's our aim. So yeaah, I learnt a huge amount from my time at Red Bull, but equally I'm having to sort of relearn things again because a lot of the techniques and things that I was using there are things which I'm now having to sort of criticise and say, well, I take it for granted that we did things a certain way, but maybe there is a different way of doing things.


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[Assistant] I think his, you know, it's public knowledge that he's stepped back over the last few years. He's less involved than he was.


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[Assistant] But he's obviously still a huge presence there. But his influence is, uhm, it does define the way that the team works. But because he's not around as much, there is a certain amount of, uhm, deferred responsibility to the people below him.


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[Assistant] But there's no doubt that there are a limited number of people there. You know, Pierre Weshay is currently the technical director. He's a hugely talented guy who does an incredible job there. So whilst I don't think there was a glass ceiling as such because of the organisation, certainly, you know, somebody already in the job who I can't see that he's sort of going anywhere anytime soon.


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[Assistant] I've been incredibly lucky to not have to sort of apply for jobs in the past. I think as quite a few people


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[Assistant] Who have relatively senior positions in particularly, and I think they're sort of better performing teams will regularly get phone calls and inquiries from, from other people, from recruitment consultants and so on. And you have to choose how you want to deal with that. Well, if you're absolutely secure and you know, and you've signed up for a period of time and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can't ignore it, and uhm, that's when, you know, you look to sort of explore them, I think.


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[Assistant] When I was, uh, actually the strange, strange thing is I remember doing one of these, um, online psychometric tests or, you know, what passed for online in those days when we were at the sort of careers service at school. Um, one of the things that came up with is the number one thing that I should do as an aeronautical engineer, which I thought was incredibly specific. I don't know whether they're still that specific. I mean, a lot of them were like teacher, doctor, whatever, but.


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[Assistant] Aeronautical engineer was the first, which I thought was very odd. But anyway, so I was thinking about that kind of course at university anyway, but really with a view to, uhm, aircraft.


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[Assistant] Um, because I thought, you know, aeronautics and aerodynamics and so on would be a very interesting thing to study, but really didn't think that motor racing was a big enough industry for me to be able to get into. So like a lot of people, I think sort of originally came at it from the aircraft point of view.


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[Assistant] Not really, I mean I didn't particularly want to be a pilot. I remember talking to Peter Prodromo about this and he said the same thing that he got into it because he wanted to be a fast jet pilot.


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[Assistant] But uh, no, I didn't really ever hold aspirations to that. It was more just that I, you know, aircraft are extraordinary, but the engineering behind it was really the thing that kind of interested me. But having had a life-long interest in cars anyway, and particularly Formula One, I just assumed that it wasn't


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[Assistant] It wasn't going to be possible. You know, I knew that there were a handful of people that worked on things like aerodynamics on Formula One cars, but you know,


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[Assistant] Why on earth would I be able to do that? So went to university fully believing that that wasn't going to be an option.


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[Assistant] And then there was an advertisement for an internship at Tyrol at the time, and I applied for that, didn't get it, and just thought, oh well never mind. And one of my colleagues at


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[Assistant] That's a university said, do you know what? I think, uh, you know, there are jobs in motor racing because you, when you think about it, there is a Reynard, there's Lola, there's all these other, you know, Delara and so on. There's these other companies. There's more out there in motorsport than just Formula One, and maybe that's an in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we talked about it a bit and decided that we would both write letters to everybody we could think of. Adrian Reynard, you know, all these other people and just...


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[Assistant] And, uh, and he put me onto, um, Chris Saunders, who was working at Lola at the time. He'd, they'd been colleagues at Williams in the days of Adrian Newey and so on. And, uh, yeah, he put me in touch with, with Chris Saunders, who, who gave me a job at Lola.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What we do, we have times of the year where we are looking for graduates, so we have a much more structured graduate program than I think teams did back in the days when I was applying.


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[Assistant] I mean it's one of the things that does give me pause for thought, and I remember talking to Adrian knew about this a few times, that the danger with our current crop of applicants is that they're so good.


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[Assistant] And they come from some of the top universities in the world, uh, with, you know, exemplary results that I look at their CVs and think, you know, I wouldn't even get an interview now, which, which, which could be a problem because, you know, there are, there may be people like, I wouldn't consider myself a diamond, but let's say, you know, kind of cubic zirconia in the rough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of some of these people that, you know, do we need to be taking straight A students and, you know, top graduates from the top universities? Maybe there are people who are.


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[Assistant] You know, would develop in this kind of environment that don't necessarily have those sort of academic credentials.


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[Assistant] Well, I suppose it's just the fact that we've got so many applicants now and it's the, you know, the competition.


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[Assistant] It is. It has, now, now it's crazy. And obviously it's a lot bigger than it was, you know, in the sort of late 90s. I mean, for every advert we put for graduates, we get thousands of applicants.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you can claim you're a rocket scientist, which is nice. It didn't work very well when you were trying to chat someone up, but I thought it would, but it doesn't, turns out. But yea, that wasn't the main reason I went there, but it was certainly one of the, you know, it was a good university for that.


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[Assistant] I do remember having a conversation with one of the lecturers at one point when I said I didn't want to go into aircraft anymore. I was looking at motor racing and he said, oh god, like that Chuti I had, that Adrian knew, he didn't need to go off to do something in Formula One. I said, yeah, I hadn't heard of him, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is still one of the main things that we have under our control to affect performance. I mean, we obviously have, tyres are a hugely important aspect of the performance of Formula One cars, you know, we talk an awful lot about.


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[Assistant] You know, you finish the race correctly that you are not going to, I mean, reliability is a big thing, but also that your car is performant enough that it responds to set up changes. But the things that you can do from race to race that will make the car faster than, yes, aero is still by far the biggest thing that we can affect.


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[Assistant] With a lot of very good research behind why we've introduced them, but you know, we now have a set of regulations that are by far the most complicated.


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[Assistant] In the history of Formula One, in terms of the length of the regulations, both sporting and technical regulations, and by far the most complicated to actually police. So the FI's job is exponentially harder than it has been over the last few years.


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[Assistant] And I just don't think that's really been beneficial. I think we have certainly with, as I say, the best intentions, tried to introduce regulations to improve the show.


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[Assistant] But, uh, what we've effectively ended up with is a set of regulations that make you design a car a certain way. So the reason that a lot of the cars look the same, or look very, very similar, is that, uh, the regulations effectively make you design a car like that. There's an incredibly complicated set of regulations for the front wing, for example.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That are essentially making you design it in a very particular shape. And we now have these regulations, not only they're complicated, but they can only be regulated or only be judged by the FIA by referring to CAD as well.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you're absolutely right, and I suppose that's the counter-argument to what I'm saying. You know, I mean, somebody who's very keen on the aerodynamics, I would far rather have more freedom. I also think that, you know, cars that are


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that's what the fans want to see and I think, you know, we've always identified, you know, even from the discussions we had about these regulations in the past.


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[Assistant] You know, it's not just a driver formula. People want to watch a sport where the cars are a differentiator, but you're absolutely right. And I can't deny the fact that there is.


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[Assistant] That's certainly a difference in performance. The truth is that the differences between the cars are in very, very small details, a lot of which are invisible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're either actually under the bodywork or they're in areas of the car which are very, very difficult to see. And again, I'm not sure that having these very, very small details being the differentiator is really something we want to see. I would far rather personally see totally different cars that have wacky shapes all over them and new innovative ideas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, you know, I accept that maybe that's just me. Maybe that's not something that, you know, fans would want to see.


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[Assistant] What I really enjoy is not necessarily the sort of creating new surfaces for the car or new aerodynamic solutions, but it's seeing people


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Coming together and actually generating new ways of working. So new ideas, new concepts, and then running with those and seeing the benefits of those. That, that I find the most rewarding thing. I remember James Allison in an interview talking about his sort of very light touch approach to management. And I, I think that's something I'd sort of aspire to as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pointing people in the right direction and seeing them sort of take these new concepts and run with them and really see the benefits of them. I find that incredible.


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[Assistant] It's good to have something that you can switch off when you go home. So other than seeing the kids, which is obviously a really nice thing to be able to do, I've always played music as a hobby, not something I wanted to do with any kind of sort of professional level or


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[Assistant] Yeah, my wife has actually had these sort of hidden talent that she's an incredibly good violinist, which she kept quiet until my daughter started playing violin. And then she was sort of losing a bit of interest and my wife said, well, you know, I'll dig out my old violin and play a bit with you. And it turns out she's incredible. So, um, yeah, so we are actually a musical family.


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[Assistant] Do you know what I do? Um, but you know, don't have anything like enough time to play them all. So I think, I think it is a, is probably a slight source of frustration to my wife as to why we've got so many guitars hanging around when I don't really play them all that much with our objet d'art, don't they?


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[Assistant] So they don't definitely, they have that sort of ability to, to sort of add that extra couple of tens to the performance of the car.


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[Assistant] Which I don't really know where that comes from. That's a sort of raw talent. But the one thing that they are all definitely have in common is their ability to, to describe how the cars behave. And that's the thing that, you know, it's not unique to, you know, the greatest drivers that, that we've seen, but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's certainly something they all share is that sort of ability to get in the car and say with very great precision exactly where they could go faster if you change the behaviour of the car. I think that's a really key thing. I think a lot of drivers can explain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, how the car's behaving or, you know, I got a bit of oversteer here and a bit of understeer there and this is how the tyre changed and so on. But they're really great ones and it is definitely a common theme.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are the ones who can say, do you know what, I've got understeer here, but to go quicker I need you to fix this corner. I need you, I need this. That's, that's the thing that sets them apart, I think.


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[Assistant] He was a little bit frustrated when he left us at Red Bull. I think he felt the car wasn't, you know, wasn't as good as he was hoping it would be. And I think it wasn't just in terms of the pace, we were all frustrated with the car, but he was a little bit frustrated with the performance or his own performance in that car and how he struggled to extract the good lap time out of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think he is a very analytical driver. He's somebody who likes to, to really understand how the car, why the car is behaving in the way it does. And that certainly hasn't changed. You know, what we saw last year is, is the same, the same Sebastian really. He's a.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That kind of ability as well. I mean, Lance is, you know, he's, he's got a laid back chap in many ways, but he's, he's very passionate about what he does. And he wants to understand why things aren't happening in the way that they should be happening or what we can do about it. But he is also very clear about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How he can get things across to us in a way that we will, we will get straight to the answer rather than it being a kind of compromise between one thing and the other. So, and I think he's learned from the drivers he's worked with as well. He's clearly got a great teammate in Fernando who can sort of show him the way with that as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, and Fernando obviously has the same characteristics because he's able to be able to not only go incredibly quickly very, you know, as soon as he gets in the car, but he's able to then describe, you know, how you could most effectively make the car faster.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, he's just got a huge following. I think he's just, not only is he incredibly talented, but, and he's, and he's been around a long time, but he's, he's now developed a kind of, you know, almost a sort of underdog status, you know, because I think everybody's aware that he should have had statistically a more


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[Assistant] But you know, when he came here, the buzz around the place was incredible. I think the fact that he doesn't take himself too seriously, plays very well with a lot of people, you know, in the business. I think it does with the fans as well.


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[Assistant] Just the level of passion that he still has. Uhm, having been around the sport for a long time, you know, I mean, he said himself, he's been in the sport longer than he's not been in the sport.


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[Assistant] To have the level of dedication and passion and interest and wanting to be involved in every aspect that he can as a driver and wanting to drive us as a team, that level of energy is just extraordinary in somebody.


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[Assistant] And everybody. Absolutely. Yeah, as right, right from day one, you know, he's just, uh,


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[Assistant] I haven't known him that long, you know, it's only been sort of around a year. I wouldn't say I'd seen him change that much, I think.


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[Assistant] Perhaps it's more the public perception of Lance that's changed a bit. People's perception of him that perhaps isn't fair in terms of his passion and dedication to things. As I say, he is quite a laid back chap in many respects.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That sort of belies a person who is incredibly passionate about what he does. He's, he's knowledgeable and informed and very, very driven to be a better driver overall. And I think there are.


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[Assistant] A number of races that we saw last year, and when you look back even further than that, there are examples of his race craft, which I think is extraordinary. He consistently starts extremely well because he puts a lot of effort into making sure that that's, that kind of thing is nailed.


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[Assistant] He's a great racer and, uh, you know, what he went through the beginning of this season to put in three very solid performances under the circumstances was, you know, a testament to his character.


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[Assistant] So I think we shouldn't underestimate that, you know, he is a, a driver who's incredibly fast, who has a great deal of determination, a lot of talent and, uh, you know, and really a sort of passion to be involved in the sport.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think it's a real surprise that as people get to know him and as our team becomes more visible, we get more engagement with the fans and the media that people get to see the real Lance.


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[Assistant] No not at all. We've always said that we wanted to make a step forward from last year and I think we've done that and to be where we are now is great and a massive boost for the team but as I've said before


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[Assistant] The really important thing is that this kind of jump in performance is sustainable for us. That we can enter the development race with the people of the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari and Red Bull.


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[Assistant] And that we can, you know, fight with them toe to toe in the development race as well.


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[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. You know, we're certainly not the team that we want to be in three years time. We've got a lot of things that we need to improve and, and do better. But you know, we've shown that we can.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A great deal of performance on the car in a relatively short space of time. I think perhaps the thing that, you know, gets lost in the, in the jump in performances last season is the improvement we made through last year.


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[Assistant] You know, that demonstrates what we can do in the development race. That's what we need to keep going forward. So, you know, there are not any excuses really. We can still do things with the tools we've got. And then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once we have improved, then that's where we look to start challenging for race wins. So no, I wouldn't, I wouldn't certainly wouldn't be disappointed if we don't win the race. I mean, it'd be lovely, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I mean, Monaco is always a good one, isn't it? Because if you manage to put in a good performance and qualify, and it's a bit of a leveler in terms of things like, um, top speed, which we know it's pretty well publicised that that's not our...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not our biggest advantage. I mean, you've got Red Bull, uh, always seem to be sort of quite close to the top in terms of the speed traps and so on. That neutralises that to some extent. I mean, I wouldn't say that it's a, it's a nailed on win for us, but I think, you know, Monaco is always a little bit of a lottery. So that's probably a good chance for us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I do believe in luck. I mean, I think if I look at my career to date, a lot of what I've


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I can sort of say that I've achieved something in this, in this business, it's a huge amount of that is down to luck. You have to have a certain amount of ability and you have to be able to get on with people. I think that's a really important thing, but, but honestly being in the right team at the right time, taking the opportunities when they arrive, I would say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is a combination of luck and judgement, so I can't deny that the reason I'm sitting here talking to you and that you're interested in talking to me, which I still find extraordinary, but the reason that I'm here is because, you know, it's down to a healthy dose of luck.


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[Assistant] I think that there are several reasons why it helps to have a works engine. There are elements of the rules which are, you know, slightly favorable for people who've got a works engine deal. I think that's just the way that things have panned out probably unintentionally. I don't think it's impossible by any means. I mean, I think if I look at,


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[Assistant] The power unit that we have from Mercedes, I mean we also have their gearbox and rear suspension and so on. None of that I see as a problem for us. I don't think any of that's holding us back. I think they have a very good power unit. It's shown itself to be powerful, reliable.


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[Assistant] I don't think there's anything that's stopping us achieving what we want to achieve with that power unit. Would it be preferable for us to be the works team? Well, yes, it would, but as I say, the margins are fairly small really.


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[Assistant] I was always thinking my talent will be enough. But it's not enough. And now I'm thinking, why you don't work more? Why? I was stupid.


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[Assistant] Ricardo, I won my second race in Formula Renault in 71, long time ago, and I was, I do some Grand Prix here, I was in pole position in the


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[Assistant] Really, I'm happy with my career. I have no regrets, but...


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[Assistant] I was so well with the team and with Guy and, uh, it authorized me to do something that was not good for the team, you know, but I, I, I wasn't nearly sure that I have no problem with Guy.


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[Assistant] Well, I won my first Grand Prix with Guiligier in 77 in Sweden, and I stay on this team because...


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[Assistant] He was a French team. We have a lot of popularity in France. I have a good friendship with Guy.


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[Assistant] I have no pressure about, about him, you know, and I don't see when I go to Frank, for example, it was completely different. It's a good team. I love Frank, but he was much more difficult for me to do what I want on this team.


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[Assistant] Because I was driving for France and I was saying to everybody, English and England is a fantastic country. I was so happy to be there and it was little bit.


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[Assistant] Not so good with Franck because Franck is a guy, a man very hard, but he was so difficult when I was with him in 70, 1975 and 74, that when I arrived in 83, I go with him only to have the turbo engine because I was sure if he has no engine turbo, it was impossible for me to win.


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[Assistant] I signed with, uh, Franck only, only, not only for that, but he was world champion with the AKK in 82. So it was a good thing for me, but I was really disappointed to be there for two years. It was strange. It was strange.


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[Assistant] You can do that and that and we'll do it, but with Guy, we can change the setting of the car from Monday to Wednesday. We decide to.


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[Assistant] To have this opportunity to try, and when I arrive on the track, I say but where?


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[Assistant] We decided, no, we decided another thing, but nobody tell me. With Frank, he was always...


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[Assistant] Straight and no problem. They decide to do that, we do that, you know. Even if it's no good, we do it anyway.


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[Assistant] The difference, in France we are light, you know, we are.


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[Assistant] In 1983, when I come back to the first test in Imola, I arrived with a plane. There is a lot of, uh, clouds. It was impossible to land at Boulogne, so we wait one hour to turn and suddenly they said, okay, you can land. And I arrived to the team. I opened the little


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[Assistant] No, it's very, yes, it's right, but not always. Sometimes I was on the team.


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[Assistant] And I was behind a wall and Frank was on the...


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[Assistant] I have a good time with Franck and Patrick Head, really, on the team, but I think it's better to think like that, that you say, with Franck I will do that, I will know. I do what I can, and the team do what they can for me. Not always correct, but it was okay. I'm not complaining.


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[Assistant] I don't ask anything, I was at that stage, between 75 and 83 was huge, enormous, enormous difference. Enormous, enormous. It was a real team, with a chef, with an engineer, with money, with... No, no, Formula One changed so quickly, so...


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[Assistant] Yeah, but I was okay because I was in Formula 2. I take some money from Formula 2 and Le Mans and everything, so I don't need money, but.


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[Assistant] It was not my first interest to earn money. It was my interest to go in Formula Land to try to have the best team with me. Even if I was not paid, it was not a big problem at this time. Today it was certainly completely different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The track was too, too hot and the tires had big problems so they decided to do this and I said with Alain.


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[Assistant] I say, what can I do, say, I go to the shop and I ask for the pyjamas, uh, bonnet like that. And I came with a golf cart to the team. And there was a, well, it's a joke, but.


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[Assistant] I don't remember what he said. I remember that he was completely upset. But I think more frank than Patrick.


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[Assistant] We have the turbo in 84. I don't test before and I go to sign with Franck because they have the turbo engine and I knew that Diligier will not have it before two years. So I was thinking when Franck asked me to drive, I said okay, because I knew they have the turbo for 84.


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[Assistant] Sometimes less than KK on the pressure, less, and I have many, many rides on my engine. Boom.


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[Assistant] As a problem, so I, I was the test driver for, for Honda.


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[Assistant] But I don't care. I accepted because he was like that. I don't care.


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[Assistant] My engineer was, eh, Patrick Head, who is my engineer? I don't remember the name. We are talking on the motorhome, each side, one side left with Patrick and KK, and me, I was on the right with my engineer.


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[Assistant] We never talk together. You know, I was speaking with Eugenia, but never with KK and... Why? Why? I don't know why.


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[Assistant] I think, you know, when you say, when you go on the team, you say we are the same level than the other team, the other driver. But I'm sure I have not the same engine and same stick than Keke.


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[Assistant] And I haven't done this shit, you know, really shit, but, uh, what can I say? Frank decided, I said, okay, I try to do my best with what I have. But it was difficult, really.


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[Assistant] I don't remember, I remember very well these two years. It was not a bad year for me, but about my competitiveness too, he was really low.


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[Assistant] I don't care, but evidently I have not the same car and the same engine that I'm sure of that.


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[Assistant] Shiver, it makes a difference. With Patrick, for example, in 78, we are all traveling the world together and when soon we are in the same team.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's normal, that I can't tell it, but if I want.


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[Assistant] When the Franck asked me to drive in 1974, he was thinking, we will pay for him. The Concernone gave me two engines and many things like that. But we are turned on top because you have the formation.


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[Assistant] Before and after us, it was a Spanish driver, uh, after a German driver, you know, Italian driver. So then we arrived, we turned like that. We are there and now we are there and now we start to.


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[Assistant] He was not only quick, he was also, he was more political than me, you know, and he's enough.


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[Assistant] That's normal, I mean, but I don't like to do that, but he was, yes, he was exactly that, but I was enough quick.


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[Assistant] Even if I don't go to, for two or three hours to discuss with my engineer, I go. I was thinking very often about this and I said, maybe when you are talented, you know, I start to drive at 25 years old.


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[Assistant] I never drive before and I have certainly a good, uh, talent. I was always thinking my talent is really enough, but it's not enough. I remember now I'm thinking.


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[Assistant] Why you don't work more? Why? I was stupid. Why the religion don't tell me to stay there two hours more to work?


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[Assistant] No, if I start to drive before, no, no, I don't think so. I was young enough to, when I was 31 years old, when I was in Formula One for the first time, I was old.


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[Assistant] There is no cart when I was, uh, 25 years old, there is cart, but she, uh, it was not, uh, a la mode, a la mode. Today I saw a reportage about, uh, Verstappen and he was racing at four and a half years old.


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[Assistant] No, I was following Jean-Pierre Jabouy on all these races in R8, Gordini, Formula 3. I met a guy, he said, why are you not racing drivers? Because I have no money. He said, okay, he wants this guy.


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[Assistant] I helped him to go to Le Mans and he has a car driving by Jabouille. And I have, and he said, okay, I will buy you a Formula France to race. And I said, well, if you want. And in the same year, he said, I'm going to do the driving school in Manicourt.


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[Assistant] And at the end of the session, I have a car, Formula 3, Winfield, to start. It was really simple. I don't ask anymore, you know, it was...


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[Assistant] You know, my first three laps in Manicour with the Lotus. It was a very wild car anyway. And I stopped after three laps. I think it was Tico, Martinur, Simon de l'Autour. I don't, I don't have it at all.


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[Assistant] Say, Jacques, you must try a little bit more because you do only three laps.


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[Assistant] And finally I go to the final and if I can tell you something about the final, maybe, you know, I have a big.


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[Assistant] I go and I touch the accelerator with my foot and arrive in the turn.


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[Assistant] My first wife, I have two children with her, and they say I am 25.


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[Assistant] And this money come not a lot of sponsors, so you come from your family or your big rich friends or something like that.


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[Assistant] When I was, uh, I won the race in, uh, Salzburg in Formula 2, and Franck called me and said, Jacques, please, could you drive my car? And the French Grand Prix, I said, why not? But before that, I asked, I go to see Tico Martini with a picture of the car and everything, and Franck and Tico said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ask us to have a test in England with a...


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[Assistant] Arthur Omar Zarou was driving the car. He was in good mood.


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[Assistant] He makes the time, and me, if I'm not too far from this time, I will come, and I don't remember the time, but I go with the nice, with tires and everything and say, okay, it's okay, it looks good. And I say, okay, I'm going to the Nürburgring. Nürburgring. 23 kilometers.


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[Assistant] And after Saturday night, after that, I do, I was trying to eat and I cannot open my mouth.


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[Assistant] I was so happy to be in Formula One, but the car was, I cannot say if the car was good or bad because I have no experience. The only thing I do, I do my best.


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[Assistant] Not far from Arturo, and I was not happy with that, but I start to see the first rest is certainly the worst.


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[Assistant] Seven, eight seconds quicker than everybody. It's a lot, eh? When you see the start of the race, we arrive in the long thread before the paddock and...


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[Assistant] You take me like that, come on, say no, I don't want to because I don't care.


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[Assistant] Beltoise has a car, there is only one car. What can you do? I come back from Japan.


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[Assistant] In 75, I rest every weekend, so I was quick enough. I drove the...


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[Assistant] And he showed me a, a letter with a, with a check and with the, the director of the school said,


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[Assistant] I had a good life. My parents were fantastic. They let me go to find my way. That is very important.


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[Assistant] You, you have a good season and you are in good form. So I want to see you on the car because Jean-Pierre Belpois was not driving a lot the last year. So, uh, I want to miss, it was, uh, come on, how you say, track now.


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[Assistant] I mean, he decided already that I will be the driver. So, Jean-Pierre Jean-Baptiste was out.


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[Assistant] Guy, he was a French team, so for my English, it was much better to stay with Guy than to be with Franck, so first. And also, they pay me, I don't tell you the price, but it was 10,000, 20,000 euros, not even. In this year, it was nothing really.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was so difficult for him. It was difficult for me to, to be there, but I always think about Frank.


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[Assistant] The car was so quick. I have a teammate like, uh, Patrick Depayet was a quicker guy too. And we stayed together. He was a little bit quicker one day than I was the other day, but we are very quick, so the team will be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The message is to change the bodywork below the car, not the swing. Gérard says no. Like, every time he faces something, he says no anyway.


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[Assistant] When you stay in the car on a Thursday in Argentina, the Lotus was a little bit quicker than us. And I say to Gérard when we have a meeting,


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[Assistant] Gerard, I bring with me two different configurations of the wing.


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[Assistant] And the problem was the car was a little bit too, the weight of the car is a little bit too important, so we do the same.


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[Assistant] When I say that, you cannot say yes, it's not no. I say fuck you mate. I want to work. No, no, no, no. It's my job. And we lost. We lost the championship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have a new regulation, we asked to have the car 8 cm.


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[Assistant] I asked, I remember Wijera said, why? Because he said, it's forbidden by the regulations, but every team has it. So we lost.


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[Assistant] I called Guilherme Gérard, but Guilherme said, okay, I will take care. He goes to the, to buy some spring, put on the car and say, we find the solution, we send you the spring. It's okay, good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the only thing was Guilherme was 95kg and me 54kg.


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[Assistant] If we can start the season with the two spring, I'm sure we are, maybe not sure, we'll be closer again. Because I was finished in Las Vegas, I was very close from the first place, but, uh, unfortunately, Patrick Tambay, who was my teammate, had an accident. Normally, he asked, he must do stop after 15 laps, and Michelin will try


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What happened with the tires for Jacques? He says stop Jacques or don't stop it. And Luigi don't want to stop me to change tires and I go.


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[Assistant] I never take care of your car and say, okay, if you want, I take another one. Because every people who was behind me say, if I stay 10, two hours in the circuit, every people say, Jacques, you want to stop them with that and go fishing or play golf.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not really. When you have a new car at the start of the season, you test it before, you say this one is better, this is better in fast corner, you have more, well the engine is a little bit, so I think the most important thing was the track change, was the tarmac and everything was new, the car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The tires was much better than the 1975, so with Goodyear or Mifflin or Bridgestone, I don't remember, the Pirelli also. The car was really quick because the tires was much, I remember we had very wide tires.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think the formula was quicker and quicker because the mechanics, the engine, and also all the other things, the computer, all these things, you know, to work on the car was much, much better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have the possibility to know exactly with, uh, we know when you arrive, you have a 30% of the front, 70 at the back. We can change it a little bit. So we have many information coming from the car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have not in 75. In 75, we were on the paddock in, uh, in Nürburgring. The car was on the grass. The truck of Frank.


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[Assistant] We are eating on the truck, you know, quickly speaking, and then my car was on the grass. And now you see you have a motorhome.


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[Assistant] Because three times or four times the price of a season of Formula One is negative. So that's a change. And Formula One follow, and it's quicker and quicker. What I miss in Formula One for me today,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the track, you know, you go to Spa, every people said to me, Spa is a fantastic track, I said no. Everywhere was fatso, how we can do the difference?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was not really interesting, if I was a formula man.


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[Assistant] Manager, I will ask to the team to don't speak to the driver during the rest to give information.


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[Assistant] I was quick, quick, quick, because if not, we are not, uh, we cannot win the rest today.


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[Assistant] It's a strategy, but I don't like the strategy because the strategy is made by the engineer. The engineer is not driving my car. So I won't decide what I am doing.


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[Assistant] For me, today, I'm sure I will not be driving Formula One.


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[Assistant] I cannot say, people say to me, you must do that, you must do that.


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[Assistant] 15 years, 10 years ago, in Paul Ricard, it was the best gift that somebody gave me for my accident. I was so happy to see the competitiveness of the car. You know, the palette to drive, you push, you brake, it was stopping the car every time when you want. You turn, it's turning you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The technology was fantastic, and you know, like every driver, we like to be in a fast corner, the quickest as possible. So today, the cars are quick everywhere, and it's really a challenge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You see, when I drove this car, I was so happy. You can't believe I was, like a new Jack, you know. I was so happy. I did 30 laps in a Polo car. And I will ask,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something happened, it's crazy, but no, I was so not easy, but you know, to drive in Paul Ricard, it was easy for me because I knew I cannot go out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I love the downforce. It was really a change, a lot of change. My sense arrived at the same.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think the cheminée was a good thing for the press and for the publicity, but it was not good for anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a way, it was not the good way. I mean, we are not enough, uh, strict.


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[Assistant] The speed, the gearbox, everything. And Monday, I was leaving Bichy to go to Manicourt at five or six o'clock in the afternoon. After five hours of talking with the engineer. And I arrived Saturday to test in Paul Ricard and all that we do, I say, where is it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ah, but you know, we are going to the desk of Guy, and we are drinking a Paul Ricard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Every people think Guy was really rich, have a lot of money.


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[Assistant] But it was not the case. We have not enough money. Every year we say we need, for example, to 2 million and the sponsor say okay.


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[Assistant] In 1875, you can finish your race like me, with a little bit of chance. But today, if you have no money and not all the things you need to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mercedes, Red Bull, Alpine, Renault, Red Bull certainly.


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[Assistant] Call me and say, Jack, maybe we can drive our car. And when I say I am 31 years old, he says, Jack, you are too old for Formula One. I say, okay, I will go another place. Because when I start to race with Frank,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was sponsoring, you have Marlboro, was give me a lot, a lot of money, 10,000 francs.


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[Assistant] I will go to another place. It was not difficult for me. But it was true. It was the truth. I was already too old for Formula One.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's much dangerous to start with a 26 car, all together at 300 kilometers. And also it was my 176 Grand Prix.


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[Assistant] Jack, I think I don't go very, very far. I don't feel the stress. Because I have said about the 176th Grand Prix was not important for me. But all my weekends, people say that. And I started to have this shit accident because


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[Assistant] Mansell was don't miss his, uh, call to the stay on the track.


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[Assistant] Johansson was there, but I saw the bandole, we are 170 km, the bandole will go behind us. But, uh,


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[Assistant] You understand to me, I was thinking it was a car coming for me, so he do, he do, eh, big like that, touch me and go direct, direct on the road, voila. But of this accident,


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[Assistant] This accident, like many things arise in your life, make me stronger.


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[Assistant] The life was different after that because of a bad accident. Nearly to be dead, I asked to Grosjean what he was thinking on his car. I was nearly the case, he said, oh, je vais revoir mes enfants et ma femme.


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[Assistant] There is another start, he changed of his car, he was there and he sent me at the hospital, a nice golf club with a bag and with a little word. Jacques, j'espère, I hope we play together soon.


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[Assistant] And when you, you drive and you know, you can watch in your mirror, you can watch your front tires, your rear tires, you can do braking, accelerating, and on the wheel, the other on the gearbox, if you do that well, you say, ah, pas mal, Jacques, today you are in good shape. It's very important.


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[Assistant] No, never, never. Only thing is when you have a friend, we are all friends, have a bad accident, you go back home and say,


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[Assistant] Thinking about, about your car, about your racing because you say,


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[Assistant] I must be better, I must, to find a solution. Why, why, why? Niki has an accident. Gilles had a bad accident. No visibility. Pironi, no visibility. Loda, he was, failure, saving by people. But I remember he was in 76.


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[Assistant] And I always think, I love Niki, and I always thinking, remember in 76, Niki Loda in Monza, I have no memory about that. Strange, because he was, he was there with a burn, face, everything.


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[Assistant] And I go back to Paris in, uh, quickly. Not on the good faith, but on the right, you know, is it forbidden to drive?


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[Assistant] I just want to learn that one of my best friends was dead, so I'm a little bit crazy, but I'm very sorry, so okay, okay, go.


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[Assistant] Careful about what I don't know, but I try to think, to not have an accident. What can I do?


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[Assistant] What can I do, uh, every, every driver think about that and I mean, but if you are afraid, you cannot trust.


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[Assistant] Yes, and I tell you why, because when I was having for fun in Austria in 74, with 74,


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[Assistant] He was winning when, uh, Brambilla won the race. They stopped the race before the end. Me, I have a car with four shit tires because Franck have no money. And I was, sir, 14. I had no chance to have any point. So I stopped. I stopped because there is the race. I love it. After it was, I said, I would like to, the race was on board.


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[Assistant] And I stopped, Franck said, why you stopped? He said, because I had enough. He said, it's too dangerous. He said, I don't want to drive for nothing.


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[Assistant] Well, still the car said, fuck you. And I go out, you see, you never, it's finished right from your seat. I don't care. And I go, I have a contract with Elf.


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[Assistant] He asked to Tirel to engage me the year after. And when Tirel, Franck, said to him, Jacques stop because, why is Jacques stop? Because he was afraid that I say, no contract, it's finished.


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[Assistant] And I say, okay, I finish. I go, I go to holidays with one of my friends. And three days after,


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[Assistant] I was so proud in 81 because I can say to Ken, hey Ken!


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[Assistant] You see where I, how I'm driving on the wet? I remember, 75, I remember very well.


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[Assistant] And I said to my wife, Bernadette, I have no liquid to put on my eyes. Michel Leclerc, French driver, was there.


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[Assistant] He said to my wife, go to my, uh, bag. There is, uh, something to clean the ice. Okay. She goes, but I don't ask anything. She come back with a bottle like that. It was a product to clean the visor.


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[Assistant] So, very strong. Au, very, very strong, so.


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[Assistant] Women sell, uh, who give, uh, Apple to the people who was there. And when she saw that, there is a...


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[Assistant] Now maybe the problem I have is the size, maybe it's because of that.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. Maybe it's for that, but it's solo so far.


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[Assistant] For, for, for the motorhome, yes. But I remember when we swam, I was drinking tea, but I don't like to put milk on the tea. So the tea was very dark.


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[Assistant] Very strong, and I don't know, but when you put milk...


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[Assistant] It is less, less strong, you know. And me, I was thinking, I was always like that, because the only thing we can drink on the motorhome was drink tea.


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[Assistant] Because if you give this car to any other driver, not all, but a lot of them will be in front.


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[Assistant] The, the age of the young driver driving in Formula 1. You remember at 18 years old, you drive in Formula 1 like people as 10 years experienced. Like Verstappen when you ride in Formula 1, I say bravo because he was really attacking everywhere, in front, behind, door, everywhere, like we do.


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[Assistant] We start for one race, 300 kilometers, one set of tires, full tank. And we must go quicker and quicker. If you want to catch the front, the man in front of you.


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[Assistant] You don't need to stop to, to somebody tell you what you are doing. You are doing to be quicker than him. That's all. It was only way to racing at this time. And I think it was for me much better, but I am anyway in admiration for all this young driver and this cloudy car so quick. I love that, but I'm not sure. Driving is the way. And after driving is another day, another thing, but


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[Assistant] I think there are two, two focus on, on the way at all.


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[Assistant] And they became friends and they would talk every week at least. And so I grew up.


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[Assistant] Play games with us anymore in the evening, because at some point sometimes he would go to bed when we played games.


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[Assistant] For people starting out who aren't sure which direction to go in.


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[Assistant] Hello everyone and welcome once again to Beyond the Grid with me, Tom Clarkson.


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[Assistant] What a season opener we had in Austria at the weekend. Breathless racing, reliability issues, the extent to which we haven't seen in years, and some overtaking controversy. It was. F1 at its brilliant best.


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[Assistant] As a spectator, it was hard to keep track of what was going on. So just imagine for a second if it was your job to know everything that was happening on track and in the pit lane.


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[Assistant] From Roman Grosjean exceeding track limits, to Lewis Hamilton and Alex Albon colliding in the closing stages, or even Sergio Perez speeding in the pit lane, it would be a mind-bogglingly complex task. And that's where my guest this week comes in.


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[Assistant] Michael Massey is the Formula 1 race director and safety delegate. He's the most senior FIA official attending every race, which makes his office in race control the place where the buck stops.


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[Assistant] He's still relatively new to the job, having taken the reins at the start of 2019, following the tragic death of his predecessor and mentor, Charlie Whiting, on the eve of last year's Australian Grand Prix.


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[Assistant] That makes him just a few months older than Kimi Raikkonen. Yet at races, Kimi has to dance to his tune.


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[Assistant] But Michael wouldn't be intimidated by anyone in the Formula One paddock. He might be young, but he's put the hard yards in to get where he is today.


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[Assistant] Back home in Australia, he had senior roles in super touring and super cars. And he was even the CEO of Rally Australia. And his first touch points with Formula One were in Singapore and Korea. Remember that? Where he was heavily involved in delivering the inaugural Grand Prixs for those countries in 2008 and 2010.


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[Assistant] So hopefully you're starting to build a picture of Michael in your head. Well, let's now hand the canvas to him to complete the picture from running races to running drivers briefings. Michael has one of the most interesting roles in Formula One and he discusses it all. I hope you enjoy our conversation.


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[Assistant] Well Michael, it's great to see you via Zoom. We're both here in Austria, but we're having to talk via computer because we're in different hotels, but great to see you all the same.


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[Assistant] Now look mate, it's, I feel it's a real privilege to grab you. We're speaking the day after the season opening Austrian Grand Prix. What has today held for the FIA's race director?


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[Assistant] Now a lot of guys and girls listening to this will be going, that was an awesome Grand Prix yesterday. It must have been pretty busy in race control. How much did you enjoy it? Did you have time to enjoy it?


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[Assistant] Is every race like that for you in Race Control, or are there quieter ones?


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[Assistant] Now look, you mentioned the COVID test there. How much extra work has there been in the buildup to Austria because of the COVID crisis?


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[Assistant] And how much satisfaction do you take from, or is it 10,000 tests I think over the weekend were carried out and every one of them came back negative?


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[Assistant] A sort of touch of reality I felt when, you know, everyone was talking about Covid and then suddenly


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[Assistant] We get to the race weekend itself and suddenly the teams are squabbling and Red Bull are protesting Mercedes over the DAS system and it's like, ah, Formula One's back, you know.


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[Assistant] But Michael, actually on a serious note though, did you come to Austria expecting that protest? Or do you get given the heads up on something like that?


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[Assistant] So DAS is okay for this season, but it's obviously not there for 21. Just on a personal level, Michael, what is your attitude towards technical innovation? I mean, do you welcome it or do you think we need to rein in as much as possible and that's the way to get closer racing?


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[Assistant] And to keep on top of what the teams are doing, how useful was it for someone like Charlie Whiting, your predecessor, to be the poacher turned gamekeeper, to sort of understand the tricks? And yes, you have a history in racing that we're going to get onto, but in Formula One, you haven't jumped that fence. And do you feel exposed because of that in any way?


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[Assistant] That's really interesting, so Charlie was already instigating that change.


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[Assistant] Michael, can we talk a little bit about Charlie and the influence he had on your career?


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[Assistant] You know, there was a huge part. But Mike how much contact did you have with Charlie back then?


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[Assistant] But Mike, that's an extraordinary thing. So you were, I mean, working in supercars in Australia, and even when you were doing that, you wanted, well, you foresaw where you are now today.


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[Assistant] Can I ask you a little bit about that weekend in terms of how much...


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[Assistant] What contact did you have with Charlie prior to the race in, in Melbourne?


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[Assistant] So Australia 2019 was what? How many Grand Prix's had you worked at up until that moment?


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[Assistant] That is extraordinary. Your tenth event, and suddenly you are the race director.


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[Assistant] Mike, what was the best piece of advice that Charlie ever gave you?


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[Assistant] Do you ever find yourself stopping and saying to yourself, what would Charlie have done right now?


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[Assistant] Can you just explain to people how busy you are between races? Because I mean, we kind of get the race control bit I guess, the race, but are you constantly travelling between races as well?


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[Assistant] One thing that you are particularly linked with, towards the end of last year anyway, was the reintroduction of the black and white flag. Uhm, the sort of let them race mantra.


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[Assistant] So when was it? It was last used in Malaysia about 10 years ago, wasn't it?


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[Assistant] Mike, have the drivers taken liberties? Do they see it as, alright, we've got a joker now, we can keep doing that until... señor race director gives us the flag?


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[Assistant] Misapprehension about your job. The biggest sort of misunderstanding, do you think?


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[Assistant] So what triggered you to start thinking about the black and white flag? Can I sort of point at a few instances? Had, for example, Canada 2019, Sebastian Vettel, Lewis Hamilton.


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[Assistant] Might that have had a different result had you had the black and white flag in your armoury for that race?


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[Assistant] Just out of interest, is that, is there an age thing there? So the older drivers have been around a bit longer, we'll think perhaps a little bit more differently to the young guys?


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[Assistant] Now you mentioned the drivers briefing there. Do you enjoy the interaction with the drivers?


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[Assistant] Do you think it's because they see you as the headmaster? And uhm, they don't want to say anything that might upset you? Or, I don't know.


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[Assistant] And you are the touch point, so to use yesterday's race as an example, you know, Lewis Hamilton gets a five second penalty for that incident with Alex Albon, but you're probably the one who has to pick up the pieces from that with the drivers. 100%.


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[Assistant] To have to pick up the pieces and have a conversation with Alex and Lewis this coming Friday after the drivers briefing.


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[Assistant] We'll have more insights from Michael in just a moment, but first this. If, like many of us in this day and age, you find those personal goals you've been setting yourself slip down an ever-growing to-do list,


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[Assistant] There's a special offer I'd like to tell you about that might just help you tick something off that list. And it will be of particular interest to those of you who are keen to learn a new language. Or perhaps brush up on your already existing linguistic skills, but feel like you just don't have the time to attend more formal lessons.


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[Assistant] Babble is designed to get you speaking a new language within weeks with daily 10-15 minute lessons. It's available as an app or online.


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[Assistant] So no matter where or when you log onto a lesson, your progress will be synced across all devices as you learn at your own pace, and most importantly, on your own schedule.


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[Assistant] There are 14 different languages to choose from, including French, Spanish, Italian and German. And my goodness, I wish I could Sprechen Sie Deutsch while spending two weeks in German-speaking Austria for the season opening double header.


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[Assistant] And what's really great about Babbel is that the lessons are created by more than 100 language experts, real people, putting their experience into practice for you, in a funny and educational way, which really adds a welcome personal touch. You learn through interactive dialogue that mirrors what you might encounter out in the real world,


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[Assistant] So you can feel confident showing off your new skill.


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[Assistant] Right now, Babbel is offering our listeners 6 months free with a purchase of a 6 month subscription with promo code GRID. Go to babbel.co.uk slash play


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And use the promo code GRID on your sixth month subscription. That's Babbel, B-A-B-B-E-L dot co dot UK slash play promo code GRID. Right, let's get back to our chat with Michael.


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[Assistant] You mentioned earlier about Korea. I just wanted to ask you about your first sort of contact with Formula One. And you did say, you know, Korea 2010, you went to, you went to live in Korea and project managed the whole thing. How difficult was it to get that race off the ground?


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[Assistant] And this is four or five months before the race is due to take place.


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[Assistant] That's right, do you remember? And it was a very late finish, wasn't it? I remember that.


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[Assistant] That trip to Adelaide in 92 with your mum, is that what triggered the interest for you or had it started earlier than that?


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[Assistant] You had some uncles who raced a bit. Did you ever harbour ambitions to drive? None. Have you ever raced anything?


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[Assistant] Two more things I wanted to ask you if I may about the journey. One is the influence of Tim Schenken. Funny that we're talking about him sat here in Austria actually because he finished on the podium.


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[Assistant] In the 1971 Austrian Grand Prix. So, chapeau to Tim if you're listening to this. He was, you know, the race director, still is the race director, uhm, of supercars. When did you first meet him and what have you learnt from Tim that sticks with you today?


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[Assistant] Someone described your relationship with him as paternal to me. Is, is that fair? Is that how you see it?


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[Assistant] Is it true that you're like a cuckoo in that you go and base yourself in Scaifey's office, is that right?


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[Assistant] Well, wow Michael, it's been so wonderful to chat and thank you so much for your time and what I know is a really, really busy week for you. Final thing from me, I've got Quickfire, favourite driver of all time.


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[Assistant] There's no doubt about that, right? Last one, favourite circuit.


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[Assistant] Good man. Well, Michael, thank you so much again for your time. It's been great to chat and I'll see you in a couple of days in the paddock.


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[Assistant] Who doesn't love a Shelby Cobra or a Mini Cooper S or Spa or Gilles Villeneuve? Clearly Michael is a man with great taste. But he's also a man with a great passion for motorsport and Formula One in particular. That enthusiasm radiates through in everything that he says and increasingly everything that he does at the track as well. Think of his let them race mantra.


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[Assistant] He also has a great backstory. Anyone who attended the Korean Grand Prix 10 years ago will know what I mean when I say it was a bit different.


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[Assistant] And for Michael to live there while overseeing the final build of the Yongam circuit must have been challenging in every sense. Michael, thanks for your time. It was great to catch up and see you in a few days back in the Spielberg paddock.


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[Assistant] Well, that's almost it for this week, but as ever, we'll quickly dive into the virtual mailbag before we go. And last week's guest, Mikasalo, has a lot of fans. Ash Miller got in touch to say this. Thanks for this week's cast. I hung onto every word of Mikasalo's candid and very concise recollection of his time in Formula One.


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[Assistant] Great to listen to one of my favorites from the 90s and noughties. It passes the time at work so much quicker. I'm delighted to hear that, Ash. And yes, Micah is a typical Finn when it comes to conversation. And can you imagine how concise his debriefs must have been back in the day?


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[Assistant] Andy got in touch via Twitter to quote the following line from this episode. So you'd think you'd beat Eddie Irvine during the whole season. Yeah, easily, says Micah.


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[Assistant] Well Andy, it would have been an interesting battle, wouldn't it? Irvine against Salo over a whole season. And for Mika to be as quick as Irvine in 99, after being parachuted into the team at 0 notice, gives some credence to his self-belief as well.


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[Assistant] And let's end with this lovely message from Danny Hoare, who says, Just confirms to me that Toyota could have been a powerhouse with the right structure. And it makes me wonder what Mercedes would have been if Braun and Schumacher hadn't been there at the beginning. Danny?


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[Assistant] Formula 1 is all about people. People working together for the greater good.


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[Assistant] And Toyota was definitely a missed opportunity both for them and for the sport. Can you imagine if they were still around today as one of the leading teams?


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[Assistant] We're running out of time, I'm afraid, so I'm going to have to stop there, and I'm sorry if I didn't get to read your message out, but let me assure you that I do read them all, and I love your feedback. And if you want to drop me a message, I'm at Tom ClarksonF1 on Twitter, or you can use the hashtag F1 Beyond The Grid.


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[Assistant] Thanks for listening, Beyond the Grid is produced by F1 in association with Audioboom. Until next time, keep it flat out.


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[Assistant] F1 is a place for people who achieve things they once thought impossible. Bernie Collins is one of those people.


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[Assistant] Fast forward a few years and the unthinkable became a race winning reality.


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[Assistant] Hello and welcome to F1 Beyond the Grid with me Tom Clarkson.


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[Assistant] For Cyndia, Racing Point and Aston Martin, Bernie Collins pulled the strategy strings. Preparing for anything, reacting quickly to call a pit stop, constantly balancing risk and reward.


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[Assistant] A race winner with Perez at Racing Point, she rose to head of race strategy at Aston and helped Sebastian Vettel score his final Formula One podium.


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[Assistant] Before she stepped away from the pit wall midway through 2022. Today, Bernie uses all of her experience to analyze the on-track action as a pundit for Formula One and for Sky. And she's very good.


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[Assistant] She just knows racing and how racing drivers think. And there's plenty of that insight in this chat. But we also discuss how she gained all of her knowledge and the unusual route she took to becoming a race strategist. A job she says she didn't set out to get when she was studying in Belfast.


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[Assistant] Plus there are stories of working with Jensen Button in her early days of Formula One, and the time she engineered McLaren CEO, Zach Brown, when he was driving in a sports car race. Bernie's engaging, she's funny, she's interesting, and she's very direct in her opinions. I hope you enjoy our conversation.


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[Assistant] Thank you for coming on the show. It's great to see you. How are you?


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[Assistant] Are you enjoying civilian life away from the stresses of the pit wall?


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[Assistant] Do you miss the adrenaline rush though, the pressure of the pit wall, making decisions on the spot, on the hoof?


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[Assistant] Has your view of Formula One changed since you stopped being with the team?


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[Assistant] Well, for people who are watching the 2022 Hungarian Grand Prix.


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[Assistant] You're the person that Sebastian Vettel was referring to when he asked over the radio


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[Assistant] It was your last race for Aston Martin, and Sebastian wanted to give you a public thank you.


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[Assistant] How apprehensive were you? Because you're right, some of Ferrari's strategies he did get stuck into. And I'm thinking, I think there was the 70th anniversary race at Silverstone. He was very critical over the radio. How did it feel working with him? Judgment day kind of thing.


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[Assistant] What stood out about Sebastian? What made him a strategist's dream, if we can call it that?


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[Assistant] What you're saying about Sebastian, I think says two things. One is clearly you were very good at what you did, but also,


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[Assistant] The relationship between strategist and driver is clearly very important. And I'd like to look into both of those things. First of all, let's talk about you and strategy. In the hierarchy of a race team, where does the head of strategy sit?


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[Assistant] Are you an engineer in your head or are you a mathematician?


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[Assistant] Was it quite a gulf to make, make the jump from engineering to strategy?


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[Assistant] So how much of the work that you do over a race weekend doesn't get used?


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[Assistant] Is this what Tom McCulloch, who's the engineering boss at Aston Martin, is this what he calls situational awareness?


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[Assistant] And Bernie, are you naturally a risk taker? Or are you quite conservative in your approach on the pit walk?


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[Assistant] Bernie, that's an interesting point. So it's not just the races as well. You're involved in run plans for qualifying, even practice as well.


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[Assistant] Start hiring now with a $75 sponsored job credit to update your job post at indeed.com slash the grid. Offer good for a limited time.


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[Assistant] We're talking at the Las Vegas Grand Prix. New racetrack for everyone in the pit lane.


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[Assistant] So experience counts more at a race like this than a Barcelona where we've been a hundred times before.


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[Assistant] How many people do you have back at the factory supporting you? Do you call it mission control?


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[Assistant] I wanted to ask you about some case studies. So do you know if there is a safety car on lap seven, what you're going to do before the race starts?


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[Assistant] Okay, so let, let's take some real life instances. So Russia 2015, right?


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[Assistant] And then has to do something like 41 laps to the end of the race.


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[Assistant] What made you pit him then? Cause it was a big ask. I know he's the tire whisperer, but it was still a big ask.


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[Assistant] Like, when he pitted, did he know that he had to get to the end of the race?


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[Assistant] I'm sensing this was definitely a Bernie Collins strategy call. I'm imagining Tom McCulloch sat next to you going, Oh my God, Bernie.


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[Assistant] And do you need sign off from someone higher up the chain, like Bob Fernley, when you're doing a risky one like that?


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[Assistant] Bernie, let's fast forward a year to Monaco 2016. You've got your feet well under the table now.


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[Assistant] And it's Cecho again. He qualifies eighth. You get him to third ahead of Vettel's Ferrari and Rosberg's Mercedes.


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[Assistant] It sounds to me like this was the perfect Bernie Collins race.


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[Assistant] Talk about Cecho. Is he one of the best drivers you've ever worked with? Because I feel his reputation's taken a bit of a hammering this year alongside Max Verstappen.


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[Assistant] I'm interested that you say Cecho can have a bad qualifying, come back, talk to his engineer and have moved on by the race the next day because one of the observations I got of him this year is that he did get himself into a slump that he couldn't get out of, but you're saying he, back then he was capable of moving on.


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[Assistant] He's one of those drivers, a bit like Giancarlo Fisichella, who was brilliant in a small team.


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[Assistant] Close-knit bunch of engineers around him. Put him in a big team and...


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[Assistant] Perhaps a little bit overwhelmed by, by the pressure and the situation.


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[Assistant] Do you think Lance Stroll is going through a similar process at the minute at Aston Martin alongside


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[Assistant] Fernando Alonso, the, the check I was going through alongside Max at Red Bull.


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[Assistant] There's one more Checo race I wanted to ask you about. Okay. And that is Sakia 2020.


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[Assistant] But the spectacular Bernie Collins wins.


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[Assistant] You know, he qualifies fifth, I think it was. He then collides with Leclerc on the opening lap, drops to back of the grid. Last to him. Dead last, wasn't it?


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[Assistant] We were still fact finding, even come the start of the race. I'm amazed that you were so sure.


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[Assistant] I find it amazing that all you strategists, I'm assuming have the same information available, and yet some do a much better job than others with that information. I know the cars are different, I suppose that's a huge factor. I mean, I remember one engineer in a rival team, I probably won't mention his name,


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[Assistant] We were talking about strategy and he said, tell you what the best strategy is, make a faster car.


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[Assistant] So Cecho crosses the line, his first win in Formula One. I remember chatting to him in the press conference after the race and very happy Cecho.


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[Assistant] Relief. I think relief was the overriding emotion for him. How was it inside the team?


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[Assistant] This episode is sponsored by the all new Mercedes AMG GT Coupe. So striking, so AMG. This car looks compact, powerful.


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[Assistant] is the digital light headlights, which can project things onto the road ahead of you, like navigation guidance and warning graphics. We all know how important performance is. And this second generation of AMG's flagship is the first to feature all wheel drive. It's got active aerodynamics, roll stabilization and rear axle steering.


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[Assistant] So the handling is precise. You can put this car exactly where you want it through the corners. The all new Mercedes AMG GT. So striking. So AMG.


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[Assistant] How does resource help you in the strategy department? Cause I mean, you've kind of lived through all the different stages. You join force India, you know, and then we go through the administration and all the frustrations associated with that. And then suddenly.


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[Assistant] There's cashflow. How much easier did your job get when you became Racing Point and then of course Aston Martin?