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[Assistant] Leaders could stop things from getting screwed up just by the fact that they were there, just by their mere presence.


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[Assistant] Uh, so, you know, that's why it's so important, again, you know, for, for leaders to get out there because people are going to do the right thing and adhere to those standards when they know the leader is, is there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was, uh, down in Florida, uh, a while back doing some leadership training for a sheriff's department down there and one of the, the deputy sheriffs was speaking to a group of corporals and he told the story how in the, in the, in the jail there, uh, how, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some deputies that should have been in the kitchen watching the prisoners do what they were doing, uh, you know, cooking the meal, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And his point was, just because the sergeant wasn't going down and checking to make sure those deputies were doing the right thing, they, you know, they're human beings, they just decided


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, this mustn't be that important because nobody's checking on us so we're not going to be doing the right thing. And so his point was, again, just by the mere fact of a leader being present, they're going to fix things just by being there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A friend of mine, Len Morella, he graduated from West Point in like 1958 or something, uh, retired as a colonel in the army. He wrote this book, uh, about character and in the book he would go and interview different leaders who were known to be character based leaders and one of the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The people he interviewed was Coach Kruszewski, Coach K from Duke.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, in the, in this interview he was doing with Coach K, he, you know, Len, Len said to Coach K, like, what does character have to do with winning a basketball game?


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[Assistant] And Coach K's answer was, character has absolutely nothing at all to do with winning a basketball game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it has everything to do with winning a championship. You know, and exactly what you say, you know, you might have a win here or there if you're not character based, but if you want to be a champion, if you want to have long-term success, you got to be a character based leader. At least that's what I believe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you're exactly right. I mean, uh, you gotta put forth some of that effort. Now, if it's some type of, you know, inane, you know, technical, you know, thing that maybe a guy with 10 years experience would know and you wouldn't know, hey, that's fine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's just showing you really don't care if, if you didn't, you know, take the time to do that type of research before coming into the job for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, and again, you know, all in line with hit the ground running, you know, a lot of people say don't volunteer for anything, right? You know, I think that's a big mistake. I mean, you, you, you gotta volunteer to take on those tough things and, and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you do that, uh, you know, a couple of benefits. First of all, nobody's going to expect you to succeed if you're just starting at your, you know, out in your career.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, you're not going to have high expectations if you're just starting out. And so by tackling those tough things, gaining that experience, uh, you know, it's just like, you know, in the military, you know, a second lieutenant in the army, the lowest ranking commissioned officer, you're expecting a second lieutenant to make a mistake.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, so that's the time to take on those tough assignments, gain that experience, make some of those mistakes, learn from them, and uh, you know, hopefully have the right leaders guiding you along the way. And that's how you're really going to get off to a good start and be successful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and again, this gets back to an infantry conference I was at, and General Cohn, you know, he since passed away, but he was, I think, the trade-off commander at the time.


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[Assistant] Speaking to us there and he basically said that during his remarks and it's like, wow, you know, that kind of hit me, you know, like, like a brick hitting me in the face. It's like, well, what's he talking about? Uh, but, but what he went on to say and, and which what I have, you know, come to, to see as true is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not everybody deserves a mentor, because if you're not out there actively looking for a mentor, for somebody to, uh, you know, somebody's example to follow, you probably don't deserve a mentor. And I remember even as a young officer thinking,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, hey, nobody's mentoring me, you know, what's up with this? You know, and I was expecting some, you know, uh, gray beard, you know, to sit me down at their side and, and tell me all the facts of how to lead. But hey, that, that, that doesn't happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I realized, mentorship is happening all around us. All we gotta do is look for it. So again, if you're a young executive in a company,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, uh, and, and, and you're observing how one of the senior leaders in that company is acting, how they're talking to people, how they're relating to people, and you're learning the good and the bad from that. That's actually mentorship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and, and, you know, mentorship is all around us if, if we just look for it. But nobody should expect somebody to kind of sit us down and, and tell us about, hey, these, these are the things you really gotta look out for. That, that's not realistic. That's, that's just, just not gonna happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, uhm, you know, as a leader, I've found, you know, give the task, give the purpose, but don't give the how. Uh, you know, give the what and the why, but not the how. And usually, you know, those people who work for us are gonna figure,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A better way to do it than we would have figured out. So yeaah, you know, let them run with it. In any organization, usually those people at the grassroots level have, uhm, they're closer to the problem set.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So turn it over to them. Now yeaah, you might have to provide a little bit of guidance. You might have to, you know, kinda, you know, uh, just, just adjust one way or the other. But essentially, uh, you know, giving them the what and the why and let them figure out the how is generally the best way to handle it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, and you know, what you said a little bit earlier, I think is exactly true. You know, sometimes, you know, our followers will come up with a plan that isn't exactly the way we would do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you know, I let them run with it anyway. You know, as long as, you know, it's not flawed in any way, it's just a different way than I would have thought of doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and I think that's really where leaders have to leave their ego at the door, you know? To say, you know, hey, this isn't the way I do it, but it's gonna get the job done, it's still gonna be cost effective, or, you know, whatever the case might be, so, so let them go forward with it. And, and it's, you know, like you said, you don't have to worry about the buying if they came up with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and, and you know, this kinda leads into the whole, you know, asking your followers what their recommendation is. And you know, some, some followers are gonna come up with some type of crazy recommendation that you just know from your experience. It ain't gonna work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but I think what leaders need to do is then get back with those followers and explain to the follower, hey, this is why I didn't use your recommendation. Now again, I'm talking about situations where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, if you're in the middle of a firefight, you know, you gotta sometimes, eh, you know, go left, not right, whatever. But I'm just saying, you know, in most situations, uh, where you're asking for recommendations on some type of long-term plan you're putting together, somebody comes up with something, you know, that's really wacko.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and you're not gonna use it. I, I do think you show people the respect by at least getting back with them and explaining to them why I'm not gonna use your plan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, absolutely, and uhm, you know, Jack Welch, you know, the CEO of General Electric for 20 years, I think from like 81 until 2001, you know, he wrote in one of his books that the problem he saw with mid-level managers throughout General Electric


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is the, the unsuccessful ones were the ones who did not have the courage to make a decision.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And again, when you make a decision, you're putting yourself out there. And, and, uh, some leaders just don't want to take that, uh, you know, that risk to put themselves out there and, and, and, uh, potentially make the wrong decision, but it's so important. Because again,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once you make a decision, it doesn't mean that you have to stick by that decision no matter what. You know, you've got to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Assess what's going on, you know, get some feedback about what's actually happening out there, you know, the real deal, and then, you know, make those adjustments as you go. But anybody who thinks that, hey, once I made this decision, I can't, I can't deviate from it, I don't think that's a good technique.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and, and you know, uh, Jaco, I was listening to an interview you were participating in once, and, and I think you said something to affect that. Every, every problem is a leadership problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and, you know, what that gets to is, you know, leaders have to create an environment where subordinates feel comfortable taking the risk to make a decision. And no, hey, if it doesn't turn out exactly right, at least, you know, I'm not gonna get my legs chopped out from underneath me. So, you know, it's really important that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, if you, if you're a leader and you see that you've got


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Subordinate leaders who are hesitant to make a decision, maybe you should look in the mirror and think to yourself, hey, what am I doing to create an environment where these people are afraid to even decide or make a mistake? That's not a good environment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you know, I think that's an important statement, uh, there about, you know, demonstrating an initiative is worth the risk of making honest mistakes, but the caveat to that is, is if you're a leader and you put that statement out there,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Guess what your subordinates are gonna be looking for? They're gonna be looking for the first time somebody demonstrates initiative and makes an honest mistake and they're gonna, they're gonna be watching.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, and actually I think it was my Sergeant Major, you know, Chris Kepner, who mentioned that to me after I put that statement out. He goes, you know, people are going to be watching to see how you react the first time somebody makes an honest mistake by demonstrating initiative. And that was a little, you know, some good counsel from him. So again, leaders, again, to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They put something out there. Now they really have to pay attention to make sure that they


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it was, uh, actually I was a lieutenant on active duty, commanding a platoon, and uh, I can't remember the actual incident that made me upset, but it was something that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was upsetting to, to our, to our unit. The whole platoon got weekend duty or something like that. Something, you know, and I thought, okay, I'm going to show them I really, you know, care, care about this and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I acted out and I realized that they were not looking for a leader to act like that. They were looking for the leader to act professional, more stable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and I think I might have either wrote in that book or, or somewhere else, uh, that they were looking for a rock and instead what they got was a pile of sand. You know? And, uh, you know, that, that really taught me that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's kind of like being a parent, you know, kids aren't looking for friends, they're looking for parents, you know, and, and, and subordinates aren't looking for, for buddies, they're looking for followers to take account on and to be, be a follower. And the other thing is, I, I like to say is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Leaders don't need to be great all the time, but they need to be great when it makes a difference. They need to be great when it matters, you know? Because, you know, let's face it, you know, steady state operations, 80% of the time, 90% of the time, things are kind of moving along right, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then, you hit this bump in the road, and that's where you really gotta stand up, and you gotta be a leader, and you've gotta show that, that uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, that, that is something that creates confidence into organization. If a leader falls apart like that, uh, then, then, heck.


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[Assistant] The subordinates don't have anybody to count on, because even the leader is starting to crumble. That's not a good thing. So, that happened on early on, that happened early on in my career and I realized what a mistake that was. So I was always very, very...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cognizant of the fact that, hey, you had to show strength when things were kind of caving in all around you. That's what your supportants are expecting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know, I think it was Colin Powell who said something to the effect that when soldiers stop bringing you their problems, you've effectively stopped being a leader.


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[Assistant] And you know, you could apply that to, you know, the civilian sector as well. When you're, the people who work for you stop bringing you problems, you've really effectively lost your ability to lead them because, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, folks are gonna stop bringing us their problems when they figure either, uhm, you can't do anything about it, or you just don't care enough to do anything about it. Uhm, and, and, and that's just a terrible position for, for a leader to be in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is my own personal belief. There's something larger going on in the universe around us. It's not all about us. You know, we're just, we're just a speck of everything that's going on. And I think that helps us keep grounded. I think it helps us keep humble.


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[Assistant] And, and I think it again kind of aligns with whatever values we say are our personal values where it will help us.


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[Assistant] Uh, the notion that there's a higher power out there, that there's something going on that's really much bigger than ourselves, uh, they may be missing something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, and just kinda back to your, your, uh, piece there about the, the positive energy. You know, you mentioned those negative people. I like to call them energy sponges because they just kinda sap the energy from everyone around them. It's kinda like, why do I wanna be around this person, man? You know, uh, and, uh,


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[Assistant] Should brighten up the room when they enter it, not when they leave it. You know, if you're the type of leader that brightens up a room when you leave it, it's kind of like, man, you're doing, you're doing something wrong there. So, uh, again, it's not like you gotta be, you know, all smiling and slapping people on the back and glad handing people all the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But people have to know that you're expecting tomorrow to be a better day than today. And who doesn't want to be around a leader who believes that tomorrow is going to be better than today? You know, cause, you know, we want to move forward.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's what I mean by, by positive energy and like we talked about earlier in the podcast here.


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[Assistant] You have to have an action plan, a believable action plan, you know, if you want to be known as a positive leader. Because people aren't going to follow you if they just think you're glad handing everything and you really don't have a plan to back it up. That's important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People want to be able to enjoy their work, you know, and, uh, you know, the old saying, you know, if you enjoy your work, you're not gonna work a day in your life, and I truly believe that. And again, you just gotta find those things that really, you know, keep you motivated, keep you excited about life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I, when I talk about vulnerability, uh, and we already talked a little bit about the first part, it's about, uh, having the courage to leave your comfort zone, allowing yourself to be vulnerable, to try something maybe you haven't tried before or something that's a little bit hard. But the other, uh, aspects,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Out there and exposing yourself to your followers, and I'll tell you what I mean by that. One way to expose yourself to your followers, and I think this is a helpful technique, is sharing stories with your followers about times maybe when you tried something and you failed, you know, or you made a mistake.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, the reason I think that's important is because, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Followers look at a leader to think, man, they're in this position of leadership. Everything they touched in life must, you know, must have turned to gold. They probably never made any mistakes, so they wouldn't be in this position of leadership. And we know nothing could be farther from the truth. So by,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By explaining to your followers how, hey, you know, I've tried and I've failed sometimes and I've made mistakes and this is how I was able to overcome these mistakes. That, that inspires, uh, those followers. And then the, the other piece about vulnerability is having the humility.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To ask people on your team, and I know you've written about this, cause I've read it, uh, but have the humility to ask people on your team,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, what they think and how they would do something. And then, uh, having the humility to follow through with their recommendation when you see it's a good recommendation that should be followed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and again, not just having that attitude that, hey, I'm the leader, you've only got two years on the job, what could you possibly know, you know, more, more than I, I know. Uh, but again, you don't know what life experience that person had. So, so asking people their opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We talk about respect. I think one of the best ways you could show somebody on your team that you respect them is by asking their opinion. Could you imagine working for somebody?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For ten years and you've never had that person you worked for ever ask you for your opinion. I mean.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, how could that make you feel good? And how could that make you feel that that leader of yours respects you? Man, you never even asked me what I thought.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, so I think one of the best ways to show people you respect them is to ask their opinion. Doesn't mean you have to follow their recommendation, like we mentioned earlier. And if you don't follow their recommendation, a good technique is getting back with them and explaining to them why.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but I think, uh, to me that's what vulnerability is all about. Those couple of things there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, that's actually a word I heard when I went through resiliency training. Okay. They talked about the concept of catastrophize.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because usually the very worst case doesn't, doesn't happen. And, and you get yourself all spun up about it, all friggin tense and stressed out about it and it's not going to do you any good anyway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's kinda like the whole thing, if everything's a priority, nothing's a priority. Exactly. You know, you've really gotta be clear about what the priorities are and then get everybody working toward achieving those, you know, probably maybe two or three priorities, so things that are really important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, Jaco, I appreciate the, uh, the time to talk about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I appreciate the time to talk about the book with you and just really grateful that we could spend a little bit of time, you and I, just talking about our own leadership philosophies and what it means to continue to learn and continue to grow to be a better leader. So thank you for the opportunity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So many, uh, people could follow whether they're in a leadership position or not. And by the way, I think everybody is in some position of leadership.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and, and I think you agree with me when I say you don't have to be in a formal position of leadership in order to lead. But anyway, thank you for putting the message out. You do. And, and to the kids too. You know, what your, your kids, uh, uh, you know, the books you put out for, for children to help them get on the right path, uh, is very important. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Appreciate that. The other thing I want to thank you for is, uh, you know, getting a picture of myself, you, Echo together. So when people look at the picture, they could see what a small, unmasking man I really am compared to you two. So I appreciate that. But not really, Jocko.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, thanks for having me back again, and again, thanks for the leadership message that you continue to get out there, so I appreciate that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, uh, I, uh, I kind of always start was like, yeah, I was just a small town kid from upstate New York. And I laugh because if you would have told me when I was a kid that I would be doing the things that I'm doing today, I would have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At a point did break me down, uhm, and, and, and now kind of, uh, show people that those experiences are the greatest ally that they have, and, and this journey of self-discovery, uh, that we're all on. And, uh, you know, I grew up, my dad, you know, I grew up,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tough family, you know, uh, uh, my dad was, uh, you know, seven brothers and sisters and, uh, grandfather was a mob, mob guy and, uh, so he was in federal prison, you know, for ten years and, uh. Were you alive then?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, before I was born, but he had a tough life. So he grew up as an orphan on the streets.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My dad's dad, my grandpa, who I was super close to. He died when I was 16. And, uh, I was really close to him. He was a hard man. And, uh, he grew up as an orphan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and ended up turning his life around, I guess you could say much later in his life. He became the head of the railroad union and, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My dad always tells a story when, when their life kind of started straightening out and fast forward a little bit. My dad said they used to go back. He was an engineer in the railroad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, he said he used to go back in the Caboose and my grandfather would be running all these card games, you know, hustling, doing this and that, and my dad would come back and say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mother and father died of alcoholism and then I think nine, nine of the brothers and sisters were street kids. Basically they were orphans and then my grandpa kept escaping. And uhm, matter of fact, he broke his leg as an orphan was taken back to the home, had to get surgery and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's the epitome of a tough guy. Like a real tough, like a violent tough guy. And uh, he wound up in prison. He wound up in Lemworth. And uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this was before I was born. So my mom and dad had been together since 15 or 16. My dad had to join the military.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, he was supposed to go to Vietnam, but then he wound up going to prison. Oh. Uhm, which Vietnam might have been better, but, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, he, uh, he never had that balance in his life, you know. And uhm, you know, it's interesting, my mom and dad, I think 56 years or something, they've been together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeah, my dad went to Leavenworth and, uh, he got in some trouble in the military, of course. And he was riding with all the biker gang and stuff like that. And I mean, he doesn't, every tooth in my dad's head has been punched out. He's got a hundred something stitches across his head. And, you know, he kind of just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He had it rough and he hit rock bottom and he got out and he ended up becoming a Christian and then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And then he got out and he just, uh, like took a bus back basically. So he owed a bunch of money to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like the Hells Angels and those kind of guys, so they like, took everything when he went to prison and robbed him blind. Basically. And uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we got out with nothing. And, you know, when I was a kid, like my Christmases were spent like in the city missions. You know, every single Christmas we were in the slums and the hoods. We had people in my house, like straight out of prison. And like, my dad used to always tell me when I was a kid, he's like, you know why I come here? He said I come here because I never want to forget where I came from.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my mom said that when my dad, when she met me at a van, 56 panel van that said no hope without dope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He can never figure why, figure, figure out why you have getting pulled over all the time. But like, so he was rough, you know, he was, he was a rough guy. And matter of fact, I know, cause as a kid, people would come up to my dad. They wouldn't believe that, you know, it was him and he was, he was a, he was a violent human being.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The kind of person that has nothing to lose. And he was tough, and he was a boxer, and he was a street fighter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, so yeaah, so my dad gets out and he ends up becoming, uh, walking down the street, like lowest point of his life. And he sees like the windows open in a church and the lights on, and he decides he's going to walk in there and he sits in the back. ZZ Top looking guy. If you look at the pictures, he's got the huge beard with the, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The jacket with 87 patches on it, you know, rats and stuff and, uh, tattoos. He had like Jesus smoking pot on his arm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Man, all kinds of crazy stuff. And, uh, he, uh, he has an experience like in that church and nobody talked to him. Like nobody would even come up to him. They just looked at him like, Whoa, this is a scary guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He turned his life around right there in that moment. And, uh, so I was born in 79. My sister was born in 77 and my dad had to figure out how to put his life together. So my grandfather got him hooked up on the railroad and I ended up becoming an engineer and, uh, working on the railroad through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I was in second grade and then he started a church in a really rural town of 600 people. Uh, so we were, we were real poor when I grew up. Uh, we all lived in the same bedroom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And then they started doing the tent revivals. So when I was a kid, I always tell people, I'm like, listen, I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, which a lot of them are faking because...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember the 80s, it was kind of a wild time for that kind of stuff, that people would get the laughing spells and like, you know, there was all these kinds of things going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I ended up, uh, I ended up leaving home at 16, so, and I lived on my own from then on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I kinda moved around the country, uh, and uh, yeaah, so I ended up, uh, moving, uh, down to South Florida and, uh, getting a job down there and working.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, my grandmother lived down there. And I lived, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was homeless for a little while. I was homeless for some months down there. And, uh, I'd gotten, you know, I had gotten in some trouble. I was also a very rough kid as you could imagine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The thing about that whole movement looking back now retrospectively is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That loving yourself and not judging yourself and all those kind of things. It wasn't associated with that at the time. And so as soon as I got old enough, you know, around 15, I, uh, well I started working at 10.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, um, yeah, my first job on a dairy farm and then by the time I was 14 years old, I was working 35, 40 hours a week sometimes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was kind of my life. Were you going to school? Yea, I was going to school. So I'd get off school. Sometimes I worked at 10 o'clock at night. I'd work all the weekends. I'd work Sunday afternoons. Uhm, and then I started working for a family as a lineman. First I was like the pick up the sticks guy. You know, I'd run around and move the trucks and do all these things and then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, slowly, anything you get off of dairy. I don't really drink milk because of that. Uhm, milk is a disturbing product.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's nasty, like it's a nasty thing, you know, like my job was to clean the udders and stick these little suckers onto there and you know, like these old bags kicking you and shitting on you and it's the worst thing. And then the milk goes in there and there's little flies and the cats licking it up everywhere. And then these things gotta be like constantly, you know, kept pregnant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, so they're like in this perpetual state of pregnancy to get them to keep lactating, you know? And the only thing I wanted to do is just get the hell away from it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, yeah, I ended up, uh, ended up becoming a lineman. So I learned how to do line work, started climbing telephone poles when I was 13 and, uh, started making like good money doing that. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Matter of fact, we were just down in Florida and I was driving through some of the areas I used to live in. I can remember being so hungry, like going in the grocery store and just living like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just like grabbing like food and just like seeing like the big fat security guy like just looking at me like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I ended up, uh, I had met some guys when I was younger and, uh, that were kind of passing through. They were like street guys. And at the time...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were like selling shit and you know, kind of rough crew and so I actually showed up at their house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, uh, I wasn't living at home at all anyway and so I moved down there and I stayed down there until I was 20 and then I moved back home. I had like 30 grand on me and a car and all kinds of stuff and I moved back home with a stripper girlfriend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just, uh, you know, I had kind of become like my father, I guess in a sense, where,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was, I could be violent, I was pissed off, I was just angry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, but inversely he was really hard. He was a hard man. Like hard. You know, I didn't, I never looked at God as like God is love and he wants to like care for us and Jesus with the lamb and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was like that. That was the revival days. It was the fire and brimstone. And so uhm, I was afraid of it, to be honest. And I uhm, I didn't like the whole thing. I didn't like the hypocrisy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, that's kind of all I knew. I was an excessive compulsive worker. And uhm, you know, when I left I was on my own. I had like, I had no like balance in my life. So, yeaah, I uh, I moved back home, I started doing line work again, and actually, a big turning point for me was that I uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I went on a backpacking trip by myself and ended up kinda having this experience out there with a bear. It was like a little black bear or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I kinda just started thinking about my whole life and how I just wasn't ready to die, I wasn't ready to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That there was something else missing and I walked out of there and I, I literally after that moment, I kind of changed my whole life. It was nothing religious. Where, where was, where were you at? In the Adirondacks. Yeah. Kind of where I grew up going to all the time. And so, uh, yeah, so I ended up getting back on the line crew, climbing telephone poles again. And now I look back, like when I was a teenager working on these line crews, I would spend the summers living in New York city.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was living with grown men that were shooting heroin and, you know, living in these, they would put me up in these hotels and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember there was a guy, I'll never forget him, I won't say his name, he's probably dead now, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm 16, it's right before I left, I'm living in the city, I'm living with all these guys, and of course they would never give me a bed, I'd be in the corner in my little like sleeping bag, you know, and they'd be doing their things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I remember this guy would never talk to me, and he would always flick his cigarettes at me, and he was just constantly smoking pot all the time. And you were 16 at this point? Yea, yea. Okay. And, uh, so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, most kids are like playing like basketball and they're out there like trying to like, you know, make out with their girlfriend, like high school prom, like I'm there with this dude, Jim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember when in Long Island, I'm like setting the cones up or whatever and, and I'm not doing it fast enough or good enough. Everything's getting paid by the units.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I remember he's like, he's in the bucket above and he just, he looks at me and he starts swearing at me and he takes like a bolt and he throws it down. He hits me in the side of the head with him. I had a hard head and like, I mean, it rang my bell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he just like whips it down like bong, like, and I'm like, remember I like rocked back and I like, I went around the side of the truck and I started like kind of crying. I was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm like crying, I'm like, uuuh, like, and I'm pushing all the tools under the ground. I'm throwing everything everywhere. I kicking the truck. I'm going crazy. So finally, after like 30 seconds of going crazy on the controls, I can see is like, this dude's going to murder me. So he just like stands up when I stop and he's like, you're dead. You're dead. He says to me, and I'm like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He gets down like just like out of reach from me and I'm hitting the truck. I'm like, your dad, like, and he probably would have killed me. And then he just like looked at me. He's like, and he went back up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So then he's like, pick up everything you piece of shit. He says to me like, and so I'm out there picking everything up and sure enough, like I gotta live in the house with the guy. So I like, you know, I go back, the week's over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and I would ride back up there and he would just be like smoking like joint after joint listening to Led Zeppelin. He would like look at me and get done and he'd go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You like flick it at me and like hit my pants and I'd brush it off and then you'd be like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he'd like, he'd like keep driving. So I mean, that was kind of like, you know, I always like joke about like, when I got in the military, like, I was already kind of like a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wasn't afraid of much at that point, like in the sense of like, I just had, I had had a lot of experiences, you know, I had grown up on my own and grown up, you know, pretty rough. And so, um, I ended up starting my own line crew and hiring some of my.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Delinquent friends that I grew up with, you know, and, and, uh, I happened to be, uh, in Queens, New York. And at this point I really did turn my life around and I'm in Queens, New York, uh, when the first plane hit the world trade center. So September 11th, I go to the yards in Long Island, pick up all my equipment. We used to store everything in these huge yards just outside the city. And, um, I'm going to get some of this here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Need some goat juice. And, uh, I get, uh, get all the stuff loaded up and I got the, we used to just go down there and be dudes standing out in the street and I would give them cash.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I'd be like, who needs a, who needs a job? You know, I'm like, who's got a driver's license? I'm like, all right, a hundred bucks, get in. And we'd hire like a ground guy and, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was making big money at the time, and I bought myself like an Audi, which I would not advise. Wait, what? Was there something wrong with the Audis? Well, I mean, I didn't realize that when it broke, I couldn't afford to fix it. Like that was like, and they do break.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So like, I only really kind of ever had like the same friends kind of growing up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the guy, yeah. So they would work with me during the week. We'd live down there and on the weekends they'd go home. So we'd leave Sunday night at like three o'clock in the morning or whatever. And then we'd be there to work Monday. And then we had a place that we'd rent and we'd live down there, work all week and then come back up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so we were playing gigs back then. So I ended up, uh, man, I wish I had a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's all those kind of like old gospel chops. And, uh, and so I started playing drums when I was eight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, you know, I wasn't like that, we ended up kind of moving out of being, you know, really poor and, and uhm, you know, kind of got to like, I guess you could say like, I guess what would be considered middle class or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was, uh, yeah, we were, we were kind of a jam band and funk ska band and I like that kind of chops. I like gospel music. Like, you know, that's kind of what I grew up with and, um, guys like Dave Weckl and Ginger Birch and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, so I was really actually thought I was going to become a professional drummer. That was like what I was really aspiring at the time to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I probably would have been had I stayed on the trajectory had 9-11 not happened. Uhm, I mean, I was getting, I had just gotten sponsored by Evans Drumheads, J.D. Adario. Uhm, so I was, I was getting pretty like, serious. And I probably wouldn't have stayed with that band forever. I would have moved up, you know, into various bands. Damn, selling out your band before you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. Like real big fish type stuff. Yeaah. Well, it's a particular style of playing too. It's a lot of like odd time signatures, you know, like, uhm, and so it's, it's, and funk and gospel and all that kind of stuff has a similar foundations, you know, it's all based off of kind of like jazz, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I did, you know, and I played a lot of like Christian music and I was like, Jesus rock. Um, and let me tell you something, you get the youth group girls when you're like Jesus rock star. You totally do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I was on a telephone pole when it happened. Uh, so I was on a railroad pole. At the time, my job was to send, uh, so Time Warner was being stood up, high speed internet roadrunner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we had to isolate those systems with what they call power supplies. And so power supplies had to be isolated. So if there's a lightning strike, it would only go like 300 feet before the next pole and not blow the whole system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I had a job putting in these power supplies and then grounding everything to power, bell, cable, you know, all the way down into the ground. And then I would install these big supplies and then wire everything up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I got paid for everything. I mean, if I put like a screw on, I could bill for it, whatever it was. So it was, it was a good gig. I mean, making seven, 800 bucks a day after I paid my guys and all my expenses. So it was like, it was good money and I was a hustler. And so, I mean, I could just, I would work when the sun was up, like, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was on my second cup of coffee and making money. So uhm, yeah, the first plane hits the World Trade Center. I'm on telephone, Paul. I have no idea what's going on. Uhm, and I get a call in the next tell from a friend of mine that tells me that a plane just hit the World Trade Center.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And at first I really didn't believe them. And, um, I come down off the pole and ended up like meeting a lady who's had her door open, like right next to where the pole was. Basically she lived right by the railroad tracks and what a terrible place to live. Huh?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your house is made of shingles. Yeaah. You know how those houses are shingled? Yeaah. It's like yeaah, these are working on the roof, let's just keep going. And uh, yeaah, so I was like, so I come down, I see this lady, she's in there, she's watching the news, husband was a Port Authority police officer, and she was kind of crying and emotional, you know, then obviously the other plane hits, and like, at the time I thought like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] America was like under attack or we're being invaded. I don't know. I had all these like weird thoughts probably from watching like movies and red, red dawn happening now. Yeah. Jed. Um, so yeah, so I, uh, I go back to the yards and I got my buddy with me. We got rid of the other dude. We gave him his a hundred bucks and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was like, I'm going into the city, and my buddy's like, to do what? And I'm like, I don't know, to like, help out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I was like, so I go in there, drop everything off, take the Audi, get on the LIE 495, and I'm like hauling ass down there. There was no traffic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was crazy. And I'm like maxing this car out. That's probably why I broke down. And I get to the, I think it's the Lincoln Tunnel, and there's like already tactical teams and guys all standing there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll tell you how tight security was. Like I had like a bunch of like cable TV and electrical IDs and like just, you know, I look like a state department guy in Iraq. You know, I have like a million badges or whatever and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I tell them I'm like a demolition crew and can you, can you let me through? And they're like, yep, bring it in. And so I just drove right on through and we went down there and parked and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's when I, you know, towers had fallen, listened to the radio, and that's when, uh, I realized, like, the severity of everything that was happening. Like, I could see the smoke, and people were screaming and running everywhere, and I'd never seen anything like that in my life. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I ripped the sleeve off my shirt, put it on my face and my body and just walked into the smoke. Basically at this point I had no idea where I was going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I would stay there for 24 hours until September 12th. And uhm, that was a- What were you doing? At first, like nothing. I was just like trying to like see if anybody needed help, but like I needed help myself because I was covered in the smoke and everybody was running the opposite way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I ended up getting in there and then they were putting together these like makeshift shirts. It was total chaos. Like I don't think that people, unless you were there, like realized like there was really no organization. It wasn't like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was half, you know, the fire department was dead. There's smash vehicles, cop cars everywhere. So we kind of started like getting together with groups to like look for people late in the afternoon. I ended up seeing like a guy's leg sticking out from underneath a police car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a bunch of us got over there and lifted it up and he was dead. And I remember like all the gravel and everything was like shoved into his face. He must have hit underneath the car. I don't know the speculate, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever happened, the car lifted up and smooshed them. And so people like pulled them out and they pulled like some blankets over them and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fire department came in, city bank tower fell, that tower, you know, mystical tower seven, I was like right there. And, uh, you know, for a couple hours I couldn't see my hand in front of my face. It was one of the most terrifying experiences in my life until I became an SDB guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just stayed there with my shirt over my head, but I couldn't breathe. And then, you know, I go to the fire department, they watch my eyes out and I stayed there all night. I found like an arm and like intestines, like I crawled inside the world trade center. Like I was sliding down the metal beams into the belly of the world trade center and it was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most insane noises I ever heard in my life, like creaking and, you know, just like smoke and steam. And it was just, it was so chaotic. I had no idea what I was doing, but I wanted to help add.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have this memory of like, I had a bicycle tube tire on my hard hat with those little like disposable ever ready like red and green like with the white switch lights. That was my headlamp. I had them like tied on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To the rescue and even if I found somebody, I don't really know what I would have done because I had zero skills really. And, uh, so I, you know, I'm right by that iconic picture of where the exoskeleton of the world trade center is, where the guys are raising the flag and it's all over the posters and stuff. I'm like sitting off to the right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, so the next morning I was there, got some food. I have like a smashed up like little bagel cart that was there with my buddy. And I remember for the first time since like that dude hit me in the head with that bug nut. I, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was like crying really hard. Like I could feel the death. I could feel the departure of life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In that area, like you could feel the immense loss. And, um, I was sitting there with my buddy. I'm like, we're just crying. And he just looks at me and he's like, man, like, what are we going to do? The sun's coming up. It's the next morning. And I just looked at him. I was like, I'm going to fucking kill whoever did this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he was like, okay, like, you know, he kind of patted me on the back like, yeah, okay. And so, um, I ended up, um, deciding in 2003 that I joined the military. Cause what happened was I lost my contract like six, eh, maybe it wasn't six months, maybe three months later, I lost my contract.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go back to work, but then they're like, you know, all this economic ambiguity, all the new build, all this stuff, they start cutting them like low guy in the totem pole, you know, subcontractor. So I own like all these like, uh, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I had all this shit and now I'm like, you know, basically I'm just trying to keep everything afloat. I couldn't find any work. Everyone's freaking out. I'm watching it glued to the TV, you know, 24 hour news cycle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I ended up selling everything off, picked up some like side work and, uh, and then moved out to big sky, Montana. Uh, and I got a job as a ski tech out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I was just like, I was watching this Warren Miller movie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said, if you don't pack up everything that you have and move to Big Sky Montana, you'll only be one year older when you do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was like, so I got a job out there in a ski shop, uh, fixing skis. And so I worked out there, came back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, I basically just like stole the skis, like, and I would, I had a pair of wire snippers, and that's how I learned how to ski.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would go up with a pair of like wire snippers and you know, I used to have the old things and I would like snip them off and put them on my jacket. And that's how I would ski and I would ski all the time like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, a lot of things. And so, um, so anyway, I went out there and I worked in the ski shop and I was just basically, it was a ski bomb and it was awesome. And I met my, um, I met my first and only ex-wife. So, uh, she was like a work exchange program for Brazil, a little spotty on the English. So it worked well. And, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so, so I ended up, you know, working out there for basically about a year coming back and then getting on a line crew and that's when I decided I was going to join the military.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, um, I tried to join the army because I had seen like everything Roberts Ridge and all that kind of stuff. And, uh, I didn't know like a ton about the military.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think, you know, of course the army's trying to get me to go in the infantry and you work your way up and this is where it starts. And I'm like, mmm, I didn't. So a Navy guy actually came out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And like saw me and I kept going to the mall because the recurring station was in the mall. Um, which meant, you know, go try to get in the military. If it didn't work out, get an orange, Julius need a pretzel. So that's kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He see, well he's like, he starts chatting it up with me, he's like, coming back for lunch in one day. And he's like, oh hey, I've like, seen you coming here a bunch, like what are you doing? You're always like, here, I'm like, well, or like, I'm trying to get a rain, go in the Rangers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like, oh, why you want to do that? And I was like, oh, cause you know, they're the best in the world. He goes, no, they're not. And he's like, let me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You got a minute, let me show you a video. And he brings me in there and shows me like the CJ Croc is kind of video like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I was like, man, he's like, yeah, the Navy SEAL's like, they're the best. And I was like, whoa, man, what do I gotta do? He's like, man, you gotta just sign up, take a little PT test. I was like, great. Like, so I go through all this stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it took me a little while to get longer to get in than I had wanted because I had a couple of like little altercations in my life. I had to get cleared up and, uh, yeah. So I, uh, ended up started doing like a bunch of research and I was like, I could barely swim. I could swim, but I wasn't like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That kind of swimmer. So I started, uh, I started training. Uh, I bought the, uh, like a Navy seal workout book and, uh, I started boxing again. Cause you grew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, on and off pretty much since I was like about 10. Yeah. I started in Catskill in New York, same place Mike Tyson learned. Catskill village boxing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Absolutely. But that was like a different kind of like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the sense, basically the workouts I was doing was, was running push-ups, pull. So like I was, I would get up in the morning. I would get up before work. So I had a job. I started working for a roofing contractor. Once I was working for a line guy, that job kind of foiled out and thank God these guys were crazy. I was working up in Glenn's falls.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, Lauren Cruz got some crazy people in it. You know, they got a lot of problems. Like I find myself living in a trailer in Glens Falls with this dude, Johnny, cause he didn't want to pay my hotel or whatever. But anyway, so I'm like doing that. I ended up getting a job for this roofing company. So I'm roofing all day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm working at a pizzeria at night and on the weekends, I worked for this guy, Sanja, this Ugandan guy who had a bunch of slums and I would go in there and basically patch everything up temporarily. You know, I wish flex tape was around because I was basically, you know, flex taping everything just to make it like, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, from a guy that came in the pizzeria, uh, it was a really cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Specialized stump jumper, like for the day, it was like, it had like the shocks. I mean, it was like, it was sick. And I took that, the buds with me, I bought it for 60 bucks and at the pizzeria and I sold that bike to Mike ever who was my neighbor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if he still has that, you know, I don't know. Oh, you mean Mikey Everett? Mikey Everett. The team guy. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I live like two blocks over him and how I met him was I was going through buzz. Of course I showed up with, you know, I got the toe head and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. So I would go over it like, so I met him and he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I went over there and I was like, Oh, how, like how much for your Jeep? He's like, are you in buds? And I was like, yeah. He's like the fuck out of here. He said something like that to me or something. I was like, if you come back when you get a brown t-shirt or something, he said to me, I ended up like getting him known.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I needed like the money. I forget why I was selling. I wish I never sold it. Uhm, but I sold that bike that I bought at the pizzeria.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And he started off in UDTs and went on and they ran this like seal, um, training course in Greenwich, Connecticut. So you would go down there and you're supposed to get this like letter of approval or like recommendation. I never got shit from it, but it was a great experience because.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I met a bunch of guys that later on I would go on and serve with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We would train like on the once a month together for like a whole weekend and I'd never done anything like that. And so it was a really good experience. I, you know, worked out tons and you know, I'd work out in the morning, wear out in the evening. I show up to Bud's, uh, you know, go through, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'd go in the phone booth and I got busted by the chief like right before graduation. So I never really got to see my family. They restricted me before I left to go to Bud's or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a matter of fact, I graduated with Bryan Bouchoir. Oh, really? Yeah, Bryan was a buddy of mine. And, uh, yeah, so I classed up with them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, cruise through. Uh, I think we graduated 13 original guys out of that class. Graduated like, guys like Ryan Bates and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I remember I didn't shout out to Ryan Bates. I didn't like him at first because everyone's like, hey Ryan's like, he does like wrestles at the lion's den. I'm like, what the fuck is the lion's den? You know, and everyone's like, he's like in the best shape ever. Like everyone's there. I was like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Freaking beat his ass. Like I just was like not having it. We ended up becoming super good buds, you know, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I know, I, you know, I have, so Van Wilson, he was the team guy that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, got killed in a car crash day after we graduated buds, uh, academy grad officer who's an NCAA wrestling champ monster. I know we're all heartbroken. We all got like tattoos the night before or whatever together and we're all, all super tight. And yeah, that was, uh, that, that, you know, being in buds and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That like, that changed my life, you know, that whole, that whole experience, you know, I was like finally like a part of something, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I aced everything except for the last one, but, uh, as a matter of fact, it would have been the first time, every time, had I not dragged another friend of mine who's getting ready to get out, uh, because he was, he was done after that. If he didn't pass that, it was over for him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, later on I would become, you know, I started competing in a, you know, a free dive spearfishing around the world. Um, so I mean, I, that water experience and then being an SDB guy, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which was like, if they, they should just have the SDV app buds like day one, everyone get into this. We're going to sink it under the water into the dark. You would, you would.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It would, you would weed out like 75% of the people. A lot of people. It's terrifying. And, um, so I got out, went, you know, went to 18 Delta, went to the Sacramento course and then, uh, um, got sent, uh, STV team one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can't move in it. There's a guy in front of you. And so like the dive profiles get so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, I went to STV school, I crashed the STV like before I graduated, which was great because I ended up becoming a backseat guy and I got to do the real world mish.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was like, hey, uh, sir, I think there's like, there's something in front of us. I think where he's like, just stay on this course. And I'm like, I don't know. He's like, it's just artifact. I'm like, I think that's a thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rock little jetties with the, with the little lighthouse on it. And all of a sudden it was like, you know, we come rocketing out and all of a sudden it's like all the water drains out. It's like, shh. I'm like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, and he was, he was pissed because I, I did. I said, okay, fine. And I just accelerated right into it. So, um, graduated STV school, go out to the team. And, uh, you know, that's when I started learning like how sophisticated that really is and how.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's super complicated. You're diving mixed gas, free breathers and open circuit all in these various profiles throughout a very long dives under, under pressure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty breather, you know, because you've got oxygen in the toxicity area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're like, and then you have these like computers with all these like lights that blink and like these huge like screens. And I could never remember. Like I knew that double red was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you can't move. So he sits in between your legs, all your gear and all your equipment gets shoved into the back and then everything is pitch black. So when we're training for the national tasking, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything's by memory. Every single thing has a knot. Every single light has a signal, you know, cause you're not using the OTS system, you know, cause it can be heard. So everything is by feel. So everything begins like, you know, first you're in these huge tanks and then you're graduating up until you're in the ocean. So everything is in the pitch black.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So like when things get out of sync, it gets very confusing. And then, you have to FSA at the end. You have to take your rigs, click it to the outside, and then the sub will surface.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you like blow out, close your rebreather and kick away. And then the sub leaves and then you're on the surface and then you swim shore, you know, and then you have underwater pingers that find you like all that kind of stuff. So it was like at first, like not what I had like signed up to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like meanwhile, I'm like watching the news, you know, it's like, let's go. And I'm like under water, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like hand signal, so uhm, I wouldn't change it for anything in the world because of the team I got to be a part of, what we got to do, uhm, and the knowledge that I gained of that mobility platform, uh, it was something that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think like within the teams it's so like niche and most people think, you know, cause the STV guys always get like bad rap, you know, like, oh freaking like STV guys like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but I got out of that and then I got to Augment Damn Neck. So, uh, seven days later after that deployment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People bolt. We've had team guys, I'm going to call them out, but like there was team guys that would freak panic. I mean, you can get, we had a, we had a chief, uh, in my second platoon who drowned and died. Um, I mean, he got tangled up in the lines and a bottom up, you know, cause they would bottom up underneath stuff and it was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's sketchy, there's lines everywhere, there's stuff going, everything's by, you have all this gear, all this equipment, all this stuff, like it is, you have to maintain like a totally cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, and then when you get into like dry dock sheltering and in the real world and all those kinds of things, like things can go sideways quick. There's no, there's no mistakes. Matter of fact, I remember we were training for that, for that mission. How was that 80 feet on a rebreathe of my buddy? Um.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My, my best friend actually, like, we're down at the bottom. I remember, like, I had like a leak in my mask and I was like, looking, I was like pointing, you know, doing the signal, like, there's a problem. He's like, typically, he's like, you're good. And I remember I was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the whole piece goes, and I was like, like, and I was like, and he looked at me, he's like, there is no buddy breathing. You're in like a full face mask. He's like, and I just remember him like, watch you die. He just, he just looks at me like you're dead. Like, and I remember I just was like, just blown, go blow and go from 80 feet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we used to always say like, those who panic first die. If you panic, you'll die. I mean, the, the, what happened to, you know, that chief that died was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He got tangled up in some lines and you know, then his mask got pulled off and there was no getting, there's no getting out. Like there's no, it's pitch black. You know, and the worst is, you know, the bioluminescence, like all that kind of, you're like completely blinded. Um, you know, and then working all the way up to a national tasking with those guys and doing all that stuff. Um, matter of fact, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had a, we were like getting to the point. We didn't know where we were going. We didn't know any of that information. Uh, still, you know, still classified to this day. Probably always will be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're just getting sick of the same people, you know, you're the same probs, same personalities, the same dirty coffee cup, the same dude, the same, you know, it's the same. And we were traveling all around the country in different environments, like, you know, preparing for anything. And I remember finally our chief at the time was like, he called us smokers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, at first I didn't really have problems with anybody. I was kind of just like whatever. And, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was like, you know, I'm super moto guy, like I was just like so, you know, fired up and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, well, I had read the old books about the dudes like in the Tortita, like getting covered in grease and like squirting out of like a sewage pipe or whatever old school, you know, but that's, that's really all I knew about. I had no idea. Um, and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, so like, he calls us smokers, and we're getting ready to leave, and he's like, hey, we're gonna put the board up here, officers enlisted, doesn't matter, everybody write your name on the board, one five minute round.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's what I'm like, the military was like tough back in the day, but it was a great, let me tell you something. It leveled the scores between a lot of people and I didn't. So everybody like got up and they had to write your name on the board with the guy that you wanted to fight. And of course, like some guys jumped up right away and like wrote the guy's name down. And I just kind of sat back. I'm like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then this dude gets up and he's one of the divers and he writes my name on the board. I was like, I didn't know we had like a problem. So I was like, so we go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I've wore all my shit. So we like, so everybody starts coming to me and they're like, Hey, like help me out. They're all nervous now. And so I'm working with some guys, a week goes by. It's like a Friday night or something. We show up there and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I wore like, my old boxing trunks, I had like, you know, custom gloves, I got all my stuff, no headgear, I didn't want anything, my gold teeth like, mouthpiece, and I put it in, I'm like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that kind of ended my hopes of like thinking that I was going to be like great someday. I don't know. You know, we, you know, men are like, we just kind of think like, but I ended up, I, so like the backtrack a little bit, I started boxing again while I was going through the medic course in the Fort Bragg for a year. And, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I end up fighting in the North Carolina state prison. So boxing with guys like Bernard Hopkins and then they come up out of the prison programs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so I went in there, went through all the security stuff, whatever, and I fight like a, you know, various rounds, kind of like a tournament style. And I ended up winning to like the top guy. Well, we was a draw with the top guy and he was like the scariest dude. I'm telling you, he was like the biggest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So no, so I started boxing with him on the weekends, like sparring partner, getting him in shape. And so, uh, you know, I grew up watching Ray Mercer, you know, he devastated Tommy Morrison. He lost to Lennox Lewis. He was a brutal dude. He had never been knocked down. He had a head like a, you know, like a giant block of cheese and, and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was merciless. I mean, if you watch that knockout against Ty Morrison, who was like my hero at the time, you know, before he got AIDS, and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but like, I mean, when he beat him down, I remember he said, he's like, you know, you can kill somebody in box and he, that's like all he said. It was like very like that, like, is he okay or anything? And when he lost to Lennox Lewis, which was controversial actually, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I kind of ended his career. He had some more fights like along the way, but, um, when he hit Tim Sylvia, he, he caved his whole head in. I mean, he, if you watch that clip on YouTube, I mean, it's brutal. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm in there boxing with him. I have a couple great shots of me and him boxing together and he hit me so hard one time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, for the first time I like, I like kneeled down on the ground. I wasn't really sure, like I'm on like roller skates. Like I, and I, I remember I was like hurt for like a week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so I, so I boxed with him and then I just, I just stayed in shape, you know, whenever, you know, once I left there, I had three amateur fights and then boxed with Ray and then whatever, went in the teams. And so we show up at the Smokers and so I got all my trunks, I got all my stuff, I got my shoes on, my little tassels and everything and I got the whole thing in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's looking at me over there with his like, you know, I don't know, off-brand boxing gloves or whatever. And he just comes over, he's like, hey man, I just, I don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so the shout out to my chief because like he got in big trouble because some guys got hurt and they couldn't dive because their, because you know, their noses and it was like dudes, dudes, dudes got beat up. Um, so yeah, so it was, it was a good experience. You know, I, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really, uh, really fortunate that I went there, you know, it was, it was a unique experience. And then I, and then seven days later, well, while underway, I got told that I was getting, getting augmented to TF 373.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, well I went to Damn Neck, did like a train up with them and then went to Afghanistan to an outstation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That one was rough. That one we lost, uh, Josh Harris. So I was with him when he died. Uhm, I was right next to him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, Jason Freewald and John Markham. So that was a, that was a tough one. And so, uh, you know, that was my first experience in real war. You know, I mean, what I had just come off though, like the implications were so high, like the intensity that if anything went wrong, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Literally no one's coming to get you. Like, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, uh, not going to be good. So, but it was completely different, you know, uh, than being shot at in the desert. So, um.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it was a, that was a really good experience and then it kind of just like, you know, up to my aspirations. I got to work with some incredible people and, uh, do a lot of really cool missions and kind of do the stuff that I had been hoping to do from when I was sitting there at 9-11 and I had a, you know, a vision of what I was going to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Living the dream, like, I mean, riding dirt bikes, like I'm just like living the dream. Uh, and then, uh, when Josh died, you know, that was my first experience with losing somebody. And then it just was like really real to me, how, you know, it just, everything changed after that for me. Um.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that, that mission was, you know, he drowned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so that was, uh, the way that whole thing went down. That was, that was tough. That was, that was a tough one. And then the guys that were with us, you know, uh, Jason got killed on entry. Uh, he got shot in the stomach and then John Markham got shot in the neck on that. So that was a huge loss in 2008, you know, for the teams.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think that was it. Like I think I had this like, I had this like immortality idea in my head. Where I could outsmart, outrun, outshoot, outdo anything. And then, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The realism when someone's wrapped in a flag on a helicopter, you know, as a young guy I was just like, the implications were so high. I have a great picture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At my house, uhm, I don't have a lot of military stuff at my house, I have some stuff at my office, but, because I don't want to influence my son, you know, I try to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I don't want him to feel that, you know, and, uh, um, it's a picture that was taken by an OGA guy of me that he sent to me later on and I was standing out looking over the corn goal and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I couldn't believe like where I'd come from and that I'm like standing here with these people, like these men, you know, like who...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're giants to me, you know, cause like I said, I became like a historian. I read every book, everything, every, there's probably not a book on the teams that I didn't read. And this was before like a lot of books were coming out. They're like old school books.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I really believe, like, in the brotherhood. Like, in the old school, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I never forget, we were like, sitting drinking a beer one day when I was a new guy and he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like, you and, you know, this other guy is like, you guys are like the spirit of like the old teams, like the old teams, like just, and I, I mean, I was, I like lived it. I loved it. And, uh, um, so, you know, going to actual war though, it's very humbling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is like super dangerous. Cause to be honest with you, I didn't really think that way at the time. You know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I think we were, so four months, yeaah, months like working up, getting ready and then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I went into, uh, well I went into another platoon. Like basically, uh, I got home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My girlfriend, now wife, we've been together for 15 years now, um, married for 10. And she picked me up at the airport and I showed up to drop all my gear off. I got my car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I get back to the command and so I was with Slab, uh, so after Josh and I got, went to another base, got to kind of know him and, um, which obviously is like, was an icon, you know, looking up to him or whatever, just like a really great leader, like real, real quiet, real steady, like, you know, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't like, and so I, uh, I am down there, like getting all my stuff just home from deployment. Like, and to be honest with you, like looking back, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That whole, like, there was a lot that happened. Like, that was like a lot because I just did back to back. So, I mean, I was like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hadn't been there in like a long time and all this stuff had gone down and here I am like checking in thinking I'm gonna like get some time off or whatever and he goes up in the office and he's like, okay I wanna talk to you, come on upstairs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he goes, so, uh, you know, you just got back? I'm like, yeah, I just got back like right now, you know. And he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that what you think? And I was like, I'm like, what? Like apparently some people had sent some emails and said, hey, we want him to come over, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And, and I was like, yeah, he's like, whoa.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, they're not in charge of manning, I am, he says to me. And I was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thinking about my headspace at the time, you know, I was like, not in a good headspace. And I was like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said something inflammatory, I think, and he went like crazy. He started like screaming at me. He came over to the desk, like got in my face, you know, and he's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'll go where I tell you to go with da da da. And I was like, then I'll fucking get out. You know, like, I mean, I've had that kind of attitude and so we get in this huge thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I get a text message from the chief, he tells me, hey, uhm, gear ready on Sunday, 96 hour SR.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm like, okay, so I like unpack my gear, call my girlfriend, tell her I'm like packing out. So I roll right into another platoon, uh, two days later and uh, I was pretty bitter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About that. Uh, nobody, like, asked me how I was doing. Nobody was like, hey, I don't like-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's going on? Like are you know, how was your trip? Like next thing I know I'm like literally like dudes with orange vests walking around looking for me with like rubber shape.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like laying in the bushes, like I was so mad. I can't describe how mad I was. Uh, the only thing I could do was think about how mad I was and how it would be impossible for me to get any madder. Like, like I would explode.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, I go through, you know, I go through that. I ended up, I hurt my hand, uh, and ended up rolling out of that platoon right before the tasking. I got a pretty severe arterial injury in my hand. And, uh, so then I go to, like he said, go to trade at M-86 and go to trade at


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, it was like standoff weapons that we had. It was like, no, it was like SDVs. Truth. I forget what it's called something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm in the trade department so I'm like going to Seattle a lot and you know, working over in those regions or whatever. And then, uh, and then I got out, uh, because, and then I tried to screen for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well I went into the reserves immediately and then tried to screen for kag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the reserve unit wouldn't let me go. So then I tried to go from the reserve unit. I remember the mash chief at the time and he wanted me to go cell res.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I won't say his name because he ended up getting in a lot of trouble, but I ended up getting picked up and doing a job in Iraq for, uh, during the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it was a status of forces agreement that was going on at the time doing like PSD stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was just really got out of pure spite. I was just so angry. Like, and I looked back at like my state and I was like, man, like luckily I'm like a fairly, I mean that sound like it, but I'm like a steady headed person because I was like really like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A roller coaster of emotions, like I hadn't, I had just experienced all this stuff in a nutshell. And next thing you know, I'm like, felt like I was being shitted on, you know, so I, um, I'm in Iraq and I'm like standing at the green bean and I see a guy who knows me and he's like, starts talking to me. He's like, Oh, Hey, what are you doing? I was like, I told him what I was doing. He's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I ended up going over to, uh, you know, contracting for the CIA. Yeah. And I did like almost four years over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was the only team guy that made it out of the training. Me and three other guys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] First of all, I didn't really, like I had an idea, but he wouldn't tell me anything. And I got, how it went down was like, I got a random email being like, you know, you've been like recommended for training. Can you be here on a, you know, whatever the date was. And I was in Iraq.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's like, you can't leave here. I was like, I'll walk right out of this gate and I'll get on an airplane. I'm like, you don't own me. I'll do whatever I want. So finally like, they made me fly calm air.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you perform, like show up here on the line, nobody's talking, nobody's saying anything, like nobody's like, I mean it's like vetting, and it's like, I don't know, it's like four or five weeks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All over in various locations and, uh, I show up, it was really funny because I'm checking into the hotel in one of the states and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's like a good buddy of mine and I didn't even know he was there. So we're there and, um, he didn't make it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I get a text message from overseas like, watch the news tonight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, so I'm like glued to the news, show up the next morning, we got like selection starts, and uhm, you know, PT tests, all those kind of things, and the quals were super hard. Shooting quals? Yeaah, they were very difficult, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what got most people was the quals and then the CQB, uhm, I mean it's, and then


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They never like, there's no coaching. There's no like, if you don't make past these tests at this time, you're just, you just go away. Like a van just pulls up and you just leave. There's no like, Hey bro, you think you can do better next time? Like, I mean, I've, I mean, we're, I was there with cat guys, team guys, like everybody. And so I get to the end, there's only four of us left and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is kind of funny because when I went through the surveillance course and uh, I actually got busted by like a big fat lady in a KFC.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She like busted me. Uh, so I was like, you know, there is those kind of people so they don't discriminate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I was always a good shooter. Uh, I don't, not that I grew up. I grew up like, you know, deer hunting, like, but like, I always laugh cause now I'm like, big archery hunter and stuff and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They had this one called the Rundown, uh, so it was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You lined up on the 100, all right, and then you would sprint to the 200, drop down two shots prone, and then you'd spread. No, no, no, this is rifle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then sprint to the 100, two shots kneeling. Then sprint to the 50, two shots standing. Then to the 25, two headshots. Then to the 7, two headshots. Mag change in between every one. You had two minutes and minimum score 24 on a Ipsic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, that got a lot of guys and then six seconds, four shots from the concealed 25 yards, um, on the pistol. So that was, and you can't miss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes. And you're, you're basically testing the whole time. Cause it's like a vetting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, it was really funny because we show up and we're at like the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Karate chops to the head. Like, so we go through all that stuff, we get done. There's another series of quals at the end. You finish that off and then you get offered a job and get ready to start deploying. And then every two years you have to redo it. Uh, and if you fail, you're done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's like this looming pressure of like, I have to redo all these things. Uh, and then it gets more like, I went through that and then it gets more like, uh, training. There's like, you still have to qual, but there's more training involved. Um, but that the initial one was just the vetting out and that was tough. That was some of the toughest training that I ever went through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so uhm, the tasking was to, you know, protect, uh, you know, CIA personnel, like, you know, around the world. You know, they conduct their missions. Uh, so it's, uh, it's intense and you work all the time. There is no moratorium, there is no standing down, there is no, you know, you're employed and it's onesies and twosies.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and then there's also like the high-vis military side where you're doing the paramilitary stuff depending on what bases you're at, so.


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[Assistant] I was a team leader at a couple of bases where it's like full on, I mean, it's full on military. Like you're, you know, you got a whole, you got a whole team of guys underneath you. And, uh, yeah, it's, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Looking at it from that side and looking at it from the military side, it's just so different. Like it's unbelievable. Um, and so yeah, I was, uh, 14.


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[Assistant] And you know, people can say what they want about those guys and I wouldn't say I trusted all of them, but you really develop a relationship. You know, you, you rely on these guys and you know, watching Afghanistan fall and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was hard. You know, it was hard. Matter of fact, I met some of the guys.


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[Assistant] Recently that got out of the country, uh, last month, uh, they reached out to me and they're, they're here somewhere living in the refugee camp basically. And, uh, they were telling me about what happened to a bunch of our guys. I mean, held against the walls, shish kebab spears stuff through their hearts, you know, I mean, like brutally killed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was, uh, it was tough. Uh, I had a good relationship with those guys. So, uh, some of them are here in the States actually, uh, funny enough, like one of them, like re I don't know. They don't, we don't use our names, but one of the guys somehow like found me and like reached out to like my secretary.


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[Assistant] I sat down for, uh, matter of fact, what happened was I was...


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[Assistant] I won't say where I was, but I was in a estate for work a month ago.


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[Assistant] My plane gets canceled, uhm, so I'm like kind of wandering around like, oh my God, I gotta like get another hotel and do all this stuff. I walk into the parking garage and I hear somebody calling me by my call sign.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course, like my Spidey sense is like to perk up. I don't, there's not a lot of people that know that. And I like turn and look and it's two of my guys, like where I was the team leader of that place for three deployments. And, uh, and he's like, you know, I'm like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like what's happening right now? So I ended up like going back to their house with them and having dinner at this, which is like.


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[Assistant] It's a wicked refugee camp. I just ran into him at the airport, alright? So I sit down and when we go off I'll show you some pictures of me with him, but uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That guy, all he's ever done since he was 20 years old was work for the Americans. His family's been killed, houses burned down, people have been beheaded, uhm, I mean they've been tortured, I mean it's, it's, it's rough. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, if you look at, uh, you know, kind of in my work with my foundation, uhm, if you look at the number of people that have served in the war, Americans, right, 2.7 million Americans served in the global war on terrorism, 20 years, right, so 7,000.


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[Assistant] Died in the war over 20 years. 1,500 are amputated, so that's .00026%. Uhm, .0056% are those who have died, right? And then you look at the fallout, though, from the war. So we just, we look at those hard numbers, right, but we don't look at the cost of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you look at, uh, only 4.5% of them are attempting, you know, American veterans attempting to start businesses or be entrepreneurs. You know, there's 50,000 non-profits in North America, 2 in 6 veterans on psychiatric medications.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and between 2005 and the end of 2020, 155,000 guys have killed themselves.


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[Assistant] So people say, well, you know, some of those guys were other vets or whatever, you know, they didn't serve in there. There were Vietnam vets or it doesn't matter. Like that's a huge number. That's every 64 minutes.


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[Assistant] And then you got to look at the fallout on the, on the host nation culture. And that, that will be felt for generations.


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[Assistant] Like, and then what we did, like, I don't mean we, but like what our nation did, like, we're no longer like a force of righteousness and of good. Like, we are.


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[Assistant] We are colonialists that have destroyed the foundation and fabric. Matter of fact, I was talking to Andy said like,


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[Assistant] What is it? 98% of all people in Afghanistan didn't know who Osama Bin Laden was and didn't know 9-11 had happened, right? So, so we just think about our costs of war, but then you got to look at the long-term costs of, of what's the displacement within societies and


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[Assistant] It's gonna come home to roost. I mean, I was listening to, there was a general who supported us when I worked on the other side of the house.


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[Assistant] He was a badass. Matter of fact, I have a t-shirt with his face on it. I work out with it all the time. He was a, he was a real...


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[Assistant] He was committed to the cause. And he was, he was, we just.


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[Assistant] There's a cost. There's a huge cost, you know, and I think the cost is felt on our, uh, on our soldiers here. Uh, you know, I think that the enemy that we were fighting is not


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not like the, it's not like, you know, they're not like Chinese or like Russians and you know, these guys didn't have drones. They didn't have bombers. They don't have any of that kind of stuff. You know, they, they had.


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[Assistant] You know, weapons that were, uh, you know, that they took from the Russians. The 70s are running around in flip-flops and like pajamas. And, uh, and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The ones that fought alongside of us believed in us that we, they took us at our word that we would, you know,