[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well those are the years when we got done by the tire decision. So we developed a car which was, uh, with Bridgestone, which was a small fuel tank.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Multi-stop, uh, nimble on our feet, lots of pit stops, uh, had that all off to a tee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, of course that was part of the sort of dominating package. And then at the end of 2004.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, the FIA and Bernie decided to introduce a rule where you had to race on one set of tyres the whole race.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which completely screwed the philosophy of, of the Ferrari at the time. And completely screwed the philosophy of Bridgestone tyres, which were, you know, high grip, high degradation, but fantastic performance. And the, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the properties of a Michelin were much better. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We went from, you know, dominating and winning championships to suddenly getting lapped by cars that, you know, we wouldn't have seen the year before. And I think Michael's resolve and the way he kept his head down in that period was, was a tribute to him. He didn't throw the toys out the pram.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, uhm, kept his head down, worked hard, and we almost won it in 2006.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there was a couple of instances near the end of the season that lost as a championship, but we were certainly contenders from a position when these rules changed to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was embarrassing when we started, because we just didn't have a tyre that would last the whole race, so we were having to cruise around to make the best of it. You couldn't wear the tyres out and change.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unless the tyre punctured or failed, you were not supposed to change tyres.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not really, I think like uhm, you know, my family knew when not to talk to me when I came home after a race, if it had gone badly. And I think we all, everyone who's involved in Formula One feels that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we'd have a bad race by about the Tuesday or Wednesday, we'd be on the phone talking about it and working out what we were going to do. Uhm, sometimes it would be...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something which, you know, you dealt with on a Monday morning. Sometimes it's something you had to just cool down for a while, depending on what the issue was. But no, he was always, uh, he was always as constructive as you could be about resolving issues and fixing them and moving on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, one of his great strengths was he always dealt with those issues behind closed doors. He very rarely, I can't recall ever him really.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was complaining outside of the, the team. He might, he might get upset about something or other that people saw, but he never went to the media and used the media to complain about something the team was doing or something he was unhappy about. He was always very defensive and supportive of his team, uh, cause that's the way he felt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, could get pretty feisty behind closed doors, but that was how it should have been.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think we all learn together. I mean, one of the reasons, uhm, I think our friendship grew is that we were both.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, our careers in Formula One were sort of maturing and accelerating about the same time. I mean, I'd been in Formula One for 10, 15 years, maybe longer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the time I, I got to work with Michael. But I, you know, that level of responsibility I had at Benetton was, you know, the biggest team I'd been in and the highest level of responsibility I'd been in. So, you know, I was learning as I went along and, uhm, so was he. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we were both on this path of trying to achieve success in Forma 1. I think we were both learning from each other. I had a bit more experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The responsibilities I had then, uhm, before. So, you know, the level of responsibility I had at, uhm, Benetton for the size of team I had at Benetton was a new thing for me. And, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that, that, uh, we were both on a, you know, learning curve in different ways and, uhm, I think both supported each other and both trusted each other, which was, uh, another key element.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think after a while we just learn to read each other, when to talk, when not to talk, when to push, when to hold back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And like any, any relationship that evolves and develops and matures, you know the right time to encourage and the right time to criticise and the right time to hold back and, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was something which developed with Michael and, uh, so, you know, I had a principle, for instance, of never really, well, I don't recall ever telling him how to drive a car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd make the information available that he could draw conclusions. Uhm, but I had no idea how to drive a racing car. I could see from the data analysis and various other things where it was working, where it wasn't working. But, you know, I had no experience of going into a corner at the, at the speeds that those guys were doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Michael often, you know, you could see comparing him to other drivers. He would have more of a tendency to go into a corner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean it has boundaries of course, you know, you can't just go charging into a corner at a ridiculous speed and hope you're going to catch it up, but he would, uhm, he would just have that extra degree of faith that his ability was going to carry him through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, I don't really know how you'd describe it, but that's, that was always my feeling with him, that uhm, you know, his corner entry speed was always high, always had a bit more confidence. And in fact,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Helping them understand the ways of getting the best time out of the car was, was an important thing. And Michael always had very close relationships with his engineers. He started with Pat Simmons at Benetton, uh, Andreas Steller, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Couple of different guys at, uh, at Ferrari. Uhm, he always had a very intimate relationship with his engineers because he spent so much time with them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And those were the guys who would actually have more affinity and more feel for what the car was doing and describe it to him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Discuss it with him. And uhm, you know, they were the two, there was generally a three person team. There'd be Michael, a race engineer, what we call the vehicolicity. And he was the vehicolicity. I remember Andrea Stella used to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How to get the best out of the car, what the best way of driving it was, what needed to change, et cetera, et cetera. And that commitment, that devotion to that process was one of the strengths that Michael had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, yeaah, I think uhm, I've worked with some pretty professional drivers and I think, you know, if you take someone like Martin Brundle, Martin was extremely committed and I don't think you...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd say that Martin worked any less hard than Michael. Uhm, but there were a lot of other drivers who, who definitely didn't, didn't get it. Uhm, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, Johnny, Johnny bless his cotton socks was, I remember the first time I went up into a debrief with Johnny and he was playing Nintendo or something on a little, little machine. And it was his way of relaxing. I kind of understood that, but I was a bit shocked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As you know I expected to go up there and see him deep in, deep in discussion with his engineer and I went up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The debrief us and Johnny was playing his Nintendo and that was his way of coming down or dealing with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, that wasn't what I was used to because, you know, I'd go up to the bus and I'd see Michael in the huddle with his couple of guys working out what had happened, what was doing. It'd be something he'd be puzzled by or something he wanted to work on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I had to get, yeaah, it was one or two other guys, I had to get into that, that approach, that, that, uh, philosophy that was needed. You see, and it did change, cause you, you take a guy like Eddie Irvine, Eddie was very


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Relaxed to his approach, but when he saw what Michael was doing, what he had, you know, Eddie changed and became much more professional in this sort of, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shadow of Michael or the mirror, mirroring of Michael in that, uh, you look at this guy and you see what he's putting into it. You think, well, if I'm going to get close to him, I've got to start knuckling down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, initially I was definitely going to stay put. I had no intent to go to Ferrari. In fact, probably that, that was one of the most difficult periods of mine and Michael's relationship because Michael had.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I had a little bit of behind the scenes fallout with the senior management of Benison over his contract, uh, which he told me about. And he was unhappy about one or two things that happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he came to see me, uh, during the, the 95 season and said, um, I'm, uh, I'm moving. And, uh, at that stage, there was a very brief discussion about whether I.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't want to at that stage and I think, well, there was no room for me. I mean, Michael was going to Ferrari team with John Barnard and you know, they were very committed to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the John Barnard approach and route and they'd set John up in the new facility and so on and so forth. So I don't think any of our thoughts were for me to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was a bit, and I say that's probably one of the most difficult times of our relationship because uhm, he'd, uh, he'd made that move and I was very committed and devoted to Bennett and the people that were there. I was in the middle of a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a crisis at Benetton, but I felt I knew what Benetton had to do next to really become, to get onto another level. And Formula One is a pretty engineering led organization. And I'd gone to Benetton.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the position I had, I had senior position, but I wasn't in charge. Uh, totally in charge. I was in charge of some of it, but not all of it. And I had a vision for where the team could go in the future.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that vision seemed to be shared by, by Flavio and the Benetton family. Uhm, but when it actually came down to making the changes that were needed, they wouldn't back me. They said they, they were going to, and then it didn't happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, so during the year I became a bit disillusioned because the promises have been made to me as part of the right, we're going to revitalize this team. Okay, we're losing Michael, but we're going to take the team to another level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it involved investment, involved restructuring of the company, involved various things. Just wasn't happening. And I was getting, uhm, I was getting blanked whenever I raised the topic that we were supposed to be doing this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then about the middle of the year, uhm, I think Michael had discovered a different situation at Ferrari than they anticipated on the engineering side. And.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That wasn't John's way of doing things. Uhm, and so about the middle of the year, I got a call saying, would you like to have a chat? Willie Weber called me and said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Michael's asked me to call you, Jean Todd's asked me to call you, would you sit down with Jean and just discuss things. Now I knew Jean from sports car days, cause Jean ran the Peugeot team, so we knew each other quite well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was just at the right point of getting frustrated with Benison having been made promises over the winter that were not happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course there was a bit of a reaction and a panic and it got awkward for a few weeks but then eventually they recognized that there was no point in standing in my way and they released me and I went to Ferrari. Uhm, so that's how it happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's gut wrenching, but on reflection, it probably bonded the team more strongly together than, than might have been. I'm not saying we wouldn't have welcomed winning those championships, but I think it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It pulled the team closer together. I mean, we, you know, we lost championships literally at the last race of those, those three years. Um, 97, 98, 99, 96, obviously I wasn't that involved. Um, but 97, we modified John's car and had a run at it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 98, uhm, we got, yeaah, we got very close. 99, Michael broke his leg, when he would have won the championship quite easily. I mean, you know, Eddie almost won it, and Michael was, was on the road to dominating that one until the accident, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably mixed, if I'm honest, because there was a feeling that Michael was the one who would have deserved it quite clearly. But we would have taken it. And I think there was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Big effort made to try and get Eddie over the line on that, and uhm, yeaah, he got a bit wobbly at the end, I think, when the pressure really came on. He struggled to handle it, because uhm, you know, we had, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had a good car that year. We were, we were backing them everywhere we could. I mean, Mikasala gave up a race win to Eddie. Michael gave up a race win to Eddie when he came back. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was every opportunity ready to make it, but I think deep down everyone thought Michael was the one who deserved it, but we wouldn't have said no because you never do. We won the constructors that year, which was, uh, um, you know, for teams is an important thing, but felt a little bit of a consolation prize. So can you just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think that's why the, you know, you can look back on it now, uh, with a sort of, um, rose-tinted spectacles and say how great 2000 was because we were so painful, it was so painful in, in the three previous years, you know, it was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was stunning for us to win it in 2000, and it was a strong championship. I mean, you know, we had to fight incredibly hard in 2000 to win it. It wasn't a cruise, that's for sure. And uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think it was Japan, wasn't it, that we, we sealed it. And I remember we were, there was a lot of race strategy involved. We were racing with Mika and, uh, we, yeah, you never,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Both enjoyable and stressful thing in that period was on the pit wall, you were very involved in the race. You know, you, you could make or break the race very easily. You needed the driver to, uh, to deliver for sure. And that was one of the things Michael was great at, but you could screw the race if you got it wrong. And so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you're mapping out what you thought and I think we made some good strategic decisions in that race. And I remember the last pit stop where Michael came out in front of Mika.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, you know, there was, we had to get it to the end, but there was a fair bit of elation when we did that. And I remember poor old Meeker asking what the hell had happened because he thought he was on top of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think we just kept our powder dry until we had a window of opportunity and as always Michael, Michael nailed it at the crucial time and that was it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There will be drivers who could do that, but Michael was exceptional because he had the ability to do that. He enjoyed doing it. Nothing turned him on more than doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He understood it all, you know, he would spend the time with us, with the models, with the strategy. He'd spend quite a lot of time with me and as the strategy became more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Involving the people that were helping put the strategy together. He would spend a lot of time with them. Understanding every nuance of what was going to happen and how it might happen and what his, uh, his...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There were periods where you didn't make the strongest moves. You were just putting yourself in the right place to make the strong moves when the opportunity came.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, and he understood all of that. So, he, uhm, we'd still get, you know, done sometimes, we'd still get shocks, you know, he would still, he would be the one asking me what the hell had happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because we haven't got the refueling and you haven't got the fuel weight to take into consideration, then there's an undercut or some like, but you know going,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being faster at the end of a stint with no fuel and old tyres was quite feasible compared to being out there on high fuel with new tyres, you know, that was the crucial thing. Whereas now,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unless, yeaah, depending on the state of the tyres, it's pretty rare that you'll, uhm, you'll be faster at the end of a stint, uh, depending on tyres, but very rare you'll be faster at the end of a stint than you will be at the beginning of the next one, because you've got the same fuel weight, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No and I think because we'd, we'd paid the price for those, particularly those three years, I mean we'd all been in business quite a long time, uhm, and those three years of, of agony at the last race, uhm, we didn't have any, uh, any issues, uh, about the, and I think


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 2004 was pretty dominant, but they were all generally, if you look at them, it wasn't like now where the top three teams are lapping everyone else and sort of disappearing. We didn't do that. We always seemed to have someone nibbling at our heels, keeping us as honest as we needed to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we had some quite hard fought championships some of those years. So, but it was a good, it was a well-oiled machine. Um, you know, Rory was doing a fantastic job designing the cars and, you know, because the way we worked almost as soon as he got one done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There'd be some, a development program agreed, and then Rory would start to be thinking about the next car. When you get in that motion, you get in that rhythm, then it, it's very strong. And uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Great team mechanics led by Nigel Stepney who was doing a fantastic job. Uh, Stefano running the team was doing, you know, every, every element of the team was working well and very united and very, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I suppose I was, I'm as guilty as this, as he was in a way, in that, you know, I left Ferrari after 10 years and I decided that after 10 years was a great time. Every year had been fabulous and I never, never regretted a single year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Almost wanted it to stay that way and I decided 10 years was a nice round number. Now how illogical is that to an engineer? I mean, you can stop work at Ferrari after 10 years because it's a nice round number. Uh, doesn't make a lot of sense, but, uh, it just felt like I was having, I had a great time and I was nervous of it. I had to take a step down at some stage. We'd had,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Couple of tough years, but we'd come out of it. We'd got on top of it and in fact the team won the championship in...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, 2007. So, with the car that was designed while I was still there and the program that was, uh, only just, but they did. And, and 2006 we almost won it again. So I was pretty pleased with where the team was. And Michael just said to me that he was tired.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was hankering after being able to do other things that he couldn't do with the level of commitment and devotion that he needed to give for more. He was never a guy who was going to do a half-hearted job. So he...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he'd had those years of sort of doing the various things he wanted to do. He'd done the things that he wanted to do. And I, I understand that because I've kind of done the same. I've had three years of retirement before coming back to this role and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Structure and the rhythm of the job, the life, the challenges.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I had a pretty busy three years of retirement doing various things. In fact, Jean reckoned she saw less of me when I was retired than when I was working, but, but at a different pace. And that, that's the thing I discovered that retirement, everything I did at my own pace.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He missed perhaps the discipline and the pace of Form 1.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, what, what happened, if you remember, because of, uhm, Felipe's accident, Michael tried to get back in the car and that kind of alerted me to the fact that he was starting to get withdrawal symptoms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He'd had his bike accident and, and, yeaah, he'd hurt his neck quite badly. Much more than people probably appreciated, uhm, as he kept it quite quiet and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he couldn't drive, you know, eventually he had to admit he couldn't drive the car when they tried to get him in the Ferrari. Uhm, his neck was just giving him too much grief. So, he, uh, but it showed to me that he was, he was keen. He was, he certainly wasn't crossing it off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when, quite frankly, we were caught off balance by Jensen deciding to leave, I rang him up and said, you fancy a beer? And he said, I know what you want to ask, let's have one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, he was, he kept his finger on the pulse and, uh, so it was no shock to him. And in fact, we, we agreed to try and find a way forward very quickly. And, and, um, and Mercedes were very keen to have him in the car, of course. Norbert was very keen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, I'm really looking after himself by that stage. I mean, I don't think he needed Willy in the years he was retired, so he didn't, he didn't reconnect. From my recollection, I think that was the case.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It wasn't a difficult deal to be honest. No, it was, it was pretty straightforward. I mean, we, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think the difference was that we no longer had a dominant car. I mean, you know, in those periods of Ferrari, we always had a strong car or the strongest car. Reality was we didn't have it in 2010. Uhm, the team had


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've been in survival mode because we simply didn't know where we were going and we couldn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were keeping a close eye on every expenditure because we, we thought we may have to survive another year with no major, uh, and it was a sign of the times at that period that we won the world championship. We still didn't have a major sponsor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we still didn't have a major sponsor. You know, it was a pretty tough economic environment at that stage. So we went into 2010 with a gently warmed up version of what we had in 2009 rather than making the level of progress. And of course,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] New regulations in 9. Other teams got on top of them quick, more quickly than we did. So in 2010, we were pretty average.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was, and uhm, it was interesting that period. In fact, I remember Andrew Shovelin talking to me, you know, after they won the first one or two of their world championships again, how much he felt that Michael had contributed to that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That success in that uhm, you know, the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Michael has helped to instill and, and reinforce the principles of, of how to do things. And, you know, in that period, cause I, I'd worked with Michael, I knew what he was like. I knew the standards he maintained and I knew the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The levels he worked to. Those guys hadn't. And so Michael came in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, it's a funny story. I mean, Jock Clear, who was Villeneuve's engineer when Michael and Villeneuve came together, almost hated Michael with a passion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It became one of Michael's closest friends when Michael came to the team and worked with him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Michael's work ethic and discipline and application just won everyone over and it, it raised the standard of the team in knowing what they could or should be doing. I mean, I, I, I think I had an impact, but Michael had just as much or even more impact on the team when he came and worked there. So they, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How interesting. Especially when they won the first world championship and I was talking to him about it. And he said, you know, this one, you know, it's got Michael had an awful lot to do with us winning this championship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well the Villeneuve incident was fascinating because when he came back to the pits he was convinced Villeneuve was a, was a villain. And, uh, and it wasn't- Villeneuve had done, wronged him. Yeah. So he came back to the pit screaming we had to get Villeneuve disqualified. He'd, he'd driven into him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then we showed it to him on the video and he was shocked. Genuinely shocked. I mean, in his own mind, Villeneuve had hit him. He hadn't hit Villeneuve.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know how you'd describe it, it was a kind of, uhm, a reaction he had. You know, there was so much pressure, this was a championship that he could win.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was a race where he'd become particularly frustrated because I can't criticize him because I, you know, we probably invented the game, but, but Frentzen had been messing about with Michael for a lot of the race, uh, as a, as a sort of foil of Williams and was screwing Michael's race up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Michael was quicker, I think, than Villeneuve. And uhm, yeaah, there was a lot of complexity in that race that was going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Blip, this aberration that he had. And as I say, he came back to the pit screaming blue murder about Villanova and the way he'd driven. And it wasn't until he looked at it that he went very quiet and realized that it hadn't, you know, what, what we'd seen was not what he perceived in the cockpit that happened.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think Monaco was a stupid move. I don't really understand Monaco cause it...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My only frustration with Monaco is we knew we probably wouldn't be on pole, but we had such a fast car and we had a great strategy we'd sort of worked out of what we were going to do that we would have won the race.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where I kick myself is I should have made that even clearer to him that there was not the pressure on pole position that there might have been. And, and so I'm not


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, he did something he shouldn't have done, and there was no doubt about it, and I don't think he ever had an excuse for it. Uhm, so, but, you know, in a career spanning how many years? 20, 20 odd years?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 306 races. 306 races. You've mentioned three incidents. It's pretty tough for the rest of the time, don't get me wrong, but, you know, three instances, you know, that's a 1% aberration rate when you're in the spotlight every race. So, uh, there you go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I think he had various people that he respected in various people he didn't pay much attention to. Uhm, that was all part of the defense mechanism of being a sort of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think when you're out on the circuit, we don't really appreciate it, but when you're out on the circuit and you're seeing what people do and you're seeing the little moves they make and the little twitches they make and the way they drive and the ability, you know,


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[Assistant] You'd sometimes hear, you know, any driver would come in and say, you know, so-and-so is a tosser because I've watched him out on the circuit and he hasn't taken that corner twice, I'd say, in two laps. And you know, they'd have opinions of each other.


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[Assistant] And they'd have opinions of, of, of who would be a good driver, you know, who they would respect and who they admired. So I think a lot depended on, on who it was and saying what. I think when Mika had things to say about Michael, he would have said them to Michael privately. And I think that had him.


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[Assistant] And that was, you know, Mika was both, uh, very honorable in a sense, but also very smart in the way he did things. Cause if he had something to say to Michael, he'd go and tell him privately. And that had, you know, Michael respected him and...


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[Assistant] It's had much bigger impact than someone, you know, drawing away in the press about it.


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[Assistant] It must have had some impact on him, but I don't think, I never got the impression that it was, uh, he just saw that as part of the battle.


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[Assistant] Yeah, Michael took no prisoners. Uhm, but you know, he rarely complained about anyone else either. I mean, you know, I just mentioned the Villeneuve thing, but that was more of an aberration, but he rarely...


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[Assistant] You know, he really whinged or moaned about someone else being tough on him. If someone else had, he didn't get him on the radio that often saying, oh, so and so has done this, or he moved on the breaking, or he did that, he shouldn't be doing, you know, it was kind of,


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[Assistant] Live by the sword, die by the sword type of thing. Everyone will know if they want to get past me, they're going to have to do a special job. Uhm, I think that's all part of the sort of vernacular of being a racing driver, certainly a top line racing driver.


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[Assistant] Not a huge man, uhm, special occasions, you know, my birthday is his birthday, his, uhm, anniversaries.


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[Assistant] You know, I was, uh, we as a family always liked to have, uhm, uh, celebrate special occasions. I remember my 40th, which was 94. He, uh, he came to my party in the UK.


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[Assistant] Wedding anniversaries. He loved, uh, we went to some of his parties and he loved to, they were all fancy dress. He loved dressing up. Uhm, so they were always fairly glamorous fancy dress parties and, uhm,


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[Assistant] He'd always been a pretty flamboyant outfit. So uhm, and they were, they were lively parties.


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[Assistant] Away from the racetrack. I mean, he never lauded the, I'm Michael Schumacher. You know, do you know who I am? I never ever saw that in him.


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[Assistant] He liked to have a bit of protection because obviously he, he loved America because really no one knew him there and he liked to spend time in America because that.


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[Assistant] That gave him the privacy and freedom that he, he, uh, hankered over because, you know, you saw him in the, in Europe or in any of the places where he was recognized and he couldn't move. Um, so, you know, there was that, that was an element of his, uh,


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[Assistant] But you know, I've gone to meet him at the house and Corinna would be there, the dogs would be there, the kids would be there, and he'd lounge around the pool for half a day or...


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[Assistant] You know, it was all very relaxed. He never, he never lauded it. Uhm, he had good, nice standards, you know, regards to the family and regards to the way he led his life.


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[Assistant] He was always superstitious about odd numbers. His chassis numbers had to be odd numbers.


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[Assistant] I think he set, he set just completely new standards in Formula One. New standards in terms of fitness preparation.


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[Assistant] The level of commitment that, that drivers needed to give. Uhm, you know, just take a small example, his fitness. He just raised the bar so, so much in that respect. And it's interesting, I know,


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[Assistant] Difficult to compare the cars physically now with the physical effort to drive a car now compared to what they used to be, but he would finish at race and he wouldn't be sweating and he would be leaping around the rostrum and you looked at the other two drivers on the rostrum and they'd be fatigued.


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[Assistant] This is, uh, this is supernatural. Uh, and he raised that standard and it's now normal. I mean, if you look at all the young guys, look at any driver in Formula One, their levels of fitness are impressive. And he was, to my mind, probably the first one to retain those levels of fitness.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think Ayrton was a huge, you know, was a very special driver, but yeah, I saw him fatigue. I never saw Michael Tide. Can't remember an occasion when he finished a race and he sort of struggled to get out of the car, but I saw that with Ayrton.


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[Assistant] Uhm, so even those races where he did, you know, 19 qualifying laps or whatever, he still bounced out of the car.


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[Assistant] Impression of breathlessness or fatigue. He would be on top of it. I think that was one of the things that was his strength. He had, he wasn't fatigued. He wasn't stressed. So he could be thinking about things. There were so many examples. He was, um,


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[Assistant] He was winning a race somewhere and he came on the radio and said, uh, I've just done the fastest lap. You haven't shown me on the board. Cause you know, it's pit board and radio much more so in those days.


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[Assistant] We said, no, you haven't. He said, yes, I have. I've just seen it on the, on the, uh, on the TV by Corners.


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[Assistant] And then we realized it was his brother. And it had Schumacher fastest lap. And he'd caught it as he was driving past Schumacher fastest lap.


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[Assistant] Uh, and he'd, um, but he hadn't quite seen it. It was R. Schumacher, not M. Schumacher. And, uh, we said, no, no, it's your brother. But then there he was leading a Grand Prix, just having to sort of...


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[Assistant] So he just had this spare capacity that, that not many other drivers had. And most other drivers, you know, you would, they'd be breathless, they'd be having to give everything they had to do the job. He just seemed to have...


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[Assistant] For me, yes, yeaah, I mean I didn't work with Ayrton, I didn't work with Elaine Prost or some of those other guys, but for me, he, uh, he was, he was, uhm,


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[Assistant] I think the, you know, drivers are different. I mean, I've been fascinated by Lewis and the approach he's taken. I mean, he's doing a tremendous job, amazing job.


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[Assistant] Almost a different approach to Michael. I mean, Michael would.


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[Assistant] I wouldn't say party because that's not the right description, but he likes to do different things that keep him in the high profile and in the limelight. Michael was the opposite. He wanted to get away from all of that. So different strokes for different folks. But I have to say, you know, it didn't work with Lewis that long.


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[Assistant] For me, the most complete driver was, was Michael, and I think it's because he was setting new standards in his period. As I say, someone like Lewis.


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[Assistant] Bose is the presenting partner of Beyond the Grid. That's because Bose QuietComfort 35 II goes beyond what you would expect from a pair of headphones. Just flip the switch to experience the industry leading active noise reduction feature


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[Assistant] And all distractions of the world around you fade away, allowing you to focus fully on what matters to you.


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[Assistant] Hi F1 fans, it's TC here with another episode of Beyond The Grid.


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[Assistant] Now this week's guest is a bit of a young'un, but just because he's young, it doesn't mean he doesn't have a very interesting tale to tell. At the age of just 22, he exudes the kind of maturity and experience of someone much older, which is a good thing because he's about to hit the big time.


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[Assistant] After a season and a bit of dazzling drives with Toro Rosso, he's set to leapfrog up the order next year when he joins Red Bull Racing as teammate to none other than Max Verstappen. Yes, I'm talking of course about Pierre Gasly.


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[Assistant] Pierre comes from good racing stock as befits someone from Rouen, the former home of the French Grand Prix.


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[Assistant] He has an impeccable CV from the junior formulas, which includes championship glory in GP2 and a near title winning season in super formula in Japan. Those kinds of credentials are just one of the reasons why his intra team battle with friend and former karting foe Verstappen will be unmissable in 2019.


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[Assistant] We caught up for a natter at Pierre's Hotel in Russia, and that impending rivalry with Max was just one of the subjects we discussed. He's courteous, he's engaging, and he's an excellent storyteller. I hope you enjoy.


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[Assistant] Pierre, welcome to Beyond the Grid. It's great to have you with us. You've been a Formula One driver for pretty much 12 months now.


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[Assistant] Hopes and ambitions of I want to get to Formula One. Has it lived up to expectations so far? Just Formula One, everything about it.


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[Assistant] So when you heard Daniel's news, Ricardo going to Renault, leaving Red Bull Racing, were you straight on the telephone to help Marco? How did it work?


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[Assistant] Do you think Max was batting for you? Was he pushing for you to join him, do you think?


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[Assistant] Do you think there was one performance that stood out and sort of got you, do you think Bahrain for example, that fourth place, is that the thing that clinched it for you?


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[Assistant] Do you think you'll have an advantage having raced with Honda throughout this year?


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[Assistant] Have a history of just doing things a bit differently, don't they? And I mean, Fernando Alonso, I think he's proven that you can't.


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[Assistant] How long did it take you, that's pretty smart of you Pierre, how long did it take you to work that out? Cause I look at your super formula season, started quite slow and then bam, something happened. Is it, is that coincide with you working out how to get the best out of it?


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[Assistant] You strike me as a cup half full kind of guy. Is that, is that fair, assessment? There's a positivity about you that isn't the case with every driver in Formula One, certainly.


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[Assistant] So, you've come a long way from, uh, Rouen.


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[Assistant] Now, listeners, uh, of this podcast who know their history of Formula One will know that there were five Grands Prix, French Grands Prix, at Rouen between 1952 and 68, I think.


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[Assistant] Uhm, go on, how many times did you drive that Ruon track in your youth?


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[Assistant] So, Ruol, okay, there is a link to motor racing there, but are you from a...


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[Assistant] A racing family, is that fair? Just tell us a little bit about where this passion for driving came from.


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[Assistant] Yeah, not only that, but there is a statistic, and I, it's something that the percentage.


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[Assistant] So at what point then did you meet Esteban Ocon? Because I read that you were mates and you did loads together.


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[Assistant] We'll get back to Pierre in a mo'. In the meantime, I quickly wanted to tell you a little bit more about the Bose QuietComfort 35 II wireless headphones.


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[Assistant] These QC35-2s are the product of nearly two decades of dedicated noise cancelling research by Bose. And what's really cool about them is that the inbuilt noise cancelling technology constantly changes and adapts to suit whatever environment you're in.


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[Assistant] You can adjust the level of noise reduction using three different settings, which, as you can imagine, comes in very handy when I'm down in the F1 pad I can need to focus. I also love the fact that they're wireless because it means I can crack on with whatever I need to do without getting tangled up in any cables, plus,


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[Assistant] There's the added bonus that they're optimized for both Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant, meaning they're hands-free as well. So I don't even have to lift so much as a finger to check my schedule, play my music or check the news. So whether I'm at work or just relaxing at home, these headphones are the ideal companion.


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[Assistant] And with up to 20 hours battery life, there's absolutely no excuse for you not to work your way through the Beyond the Grid back catalogue. Is there? But let's finish this episode first. Time to get back to P.S.


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[Assistant] So how's the relationship now you're both in Formula One? I mean, I've heard a few radio messages from both of you this year. Hey, what did you say after lap one at the French Grand Prix this year when you crashed?


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[Assistant] Does it feel odd that you're going into one of the big three next year and he probably won't have a drive in Formula One?


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[Assistant] That's one friendship that racing has turned a bit sour. Do you worry that the same thing might happen between you and Max for example next year?


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[Assistant] Do you worry a little bit that you're walking into his team next year?


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[Assistant] We've talked about Esteban, we've talked about Max, just drivers parade, typical drivers parade, you're on the bus. Who do you chat to? Have you, you know, you've only been in here a year, we're kind of back where we started, but have you made any mates on the grid? Is it possible to have mates? It seems quite difficult when you talk about Ocon.


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[Assistant] Because you're doing it all very well. There's one thing though, whenever it comes to talking about money and trying to screw that last whatever it is out of a team, out of a sponsor, good cop, bad cop, right? You want to be the good cop, right? You need a guy to go in and be the bad cop. Who does that?


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[Assistant] Well, Pierre, thank you for your time. It's been fabulous to catch up and just to learn some of your story. It's an amazing story. Thanks for your time. Great chat. Good luck with it all. Thank you very much. Catch up again soon. Thanks. Cheers.


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[Assistant] There were so many little gems in that chat, but there was undoubtedly a deep-rooted sadness linked to the breakdown of his childhood friendship with Oko that bugs him to this day.


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[Assistant] On a more positive note, Pierre's understanding of Japanese work ethic will stand him in good stead next year when Red Bull link up with Honda. It'll be fascinating to see what he can achieve. A big thanks to you, Pierre, for your time.


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[Assistant] Well that's it for another week, but we'll be back in just seven sleeps with another F1 superstar. In the meantime, please subscribe to Beyond The Grid if you haven't already. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and your favourite podcast app.


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[Assistant] And I love your feedback. Please feel free to drop me a line using the hashtag F1 beyond the grid and you can tweet me at Tom Clarkson F1. Sarah Jones did just that last week telling me that the podcast is ideal Saturday night listening. Saturday night fever Sarah.


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[Assistant] Hi everyone and welcome to Beyond the Grid presented by the new Bose noise cancelling headphones 700. I'm Tom Clarkson and joining me this week is a driver from the Netherlands who caused a major stir when he jumped in an F1 car for the first time.


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[Assistant] Well, no, I'm not talking about Max Verstappen, but his father, Jos. Some 25 years ago, Jos had the same meteoric rise through the junior formulas as his son. Like Max, he jumped straight from Formula 3 into Formula 1 via a hugely impressive debut test that made the front pages of every motorsport publication.


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[Assistant] In all, Jos raced for six teams during his 10-year Formula One career, the highlight of which was a couple of podiums in 1994. Would things have panned out differently for him had he not gone up against the best driver of his generation? Possibly.


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[Assistant] But do you sense when speaking to Joss that his racing career was a mere fact-finding mission ahead of perhaps his ultimate destiny, which was helping prepare his son Max for greatness?


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[Assistant] For all you racing dads out there, this would appear to be the blueprint of how to make a success of your son's career. I sat down with Jos at the recent Belgian Grand Prix where fans supporting his son packed out Spa-Francorchamps. I hope you enjoy our conversation.


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[Assistant] You're so welcome to be on the grid. Lovely to see you. Now many people...


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[Assistant] But I mean, let's talk about some of that momentum, because German Formula 3 champion


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[Assistant] You'd won the Marlborough Masters at Zandvoort. And then, I mean, is it true that every Formula One team contacted you except for Ferrari and Williams? Did everybody else get in touch?


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[Assistant] If you look back, where were you lacking? Because you had the raw pace. You'd prove that in the junior formulas. You'd prove that in that footwork test. Add S to real. So, I think physically, I was not...


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[Assistant] At Interlagos, sorry, uh, affect your confidence, cause did you remember, was it contact with Eddie Irvine? Yeah, I mean, I think Eddie had...


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[Assistant] I think you spun there. Spun out of the, after the pistol. So kind of, after two races, Leto comes back. And where are you at mentally at this point? What are you thinking about Formula One? What are you thinking about your relationship with Benetton?


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[Assistant] I mean, let's talk about Michael Schumacher then. I mean, it was still early on in his career, but what are your memories of him and where was he so darn good?


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[Assistant] Do you feel he politically had the team more on his side? Yeah, 100%. And by that I mean Flavio, I mean everybody.


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[Assistant] And of course, you mentioned Senna. He got out of the car in Aida, he spun out as well, and he came out with this, you know,


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[Assistant] And how much damage to you, your skin, I mean burns and...


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[Assistant] Given what you went through then, would you welcome the return to refuelling in Formula One now? I don't mind.


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[Assistant] From that disappointment with those podiums, we had Hungary.


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[Assistant] Joss, we're going to stand you down for the last couple of races and we're going to bring in Johnny Herbert.


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[Assistant] But the memories are good, but, you know, I mean, okay, Jos, do you regret, you had the whole of the Formula One paddock after you at the end of 93, do you regret that you ended up in a Benetton and not somewhere else?


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[Assistant] So but in the mid 90s then, after that Benetton period, when you were bouncing between SimTech, Arrows, Tyrrell, as you say, Stuart, were there any highlights? I mean, some races I think.


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[Assistant] The first Grand Prix I ever came to in a working capacity was Spa 1996. And I think one of the first cars I ever saw was your Arrows after that didn't a wishbone.


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[Assistant] I mean given that Max cannot move when he goes back to Holland now, what was it like for you? Were you still living there?


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[Assistant] So look, we go, uh, Stuart was 98, but then something I really, a really meaty topic I want to talk to you about was the Honda F1 project. In 99, you did a lot of testing for them.


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[Assistant] What was being said to you about Honda coming in with the works team? What was on the cards at the time?


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[Assistant] So there was Tom Walkinshaw and then you had, uh, we've talked about Flavio. What about Jackie Stewart at the Stewart?


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[Assistant] And then damn it, in 99, they actually came out with a good car, didn't they? And they, Johnny Herbert won that race, and Nebo Green.


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[Assistant] How do you reflect on it all now? Because I still remember the hype at the end of 93 and I look at you now and think, I cannot believe that that man only scored, what is it?


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[Assistant] We'll hear more from Joss in a moment, but first, here's some shaving advice. If you want the best quality shave for half the price of other brands out there, then make sure you go to harries.com forward slash F1 podcast to get your hands on a trial set for just £3.95.


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[Assistant] And here's a little factoid about our friends at Harry's. There are 600 engineers, designers, craftsmen and chemists at their factory in Germany working hard and making products with only the finest materials and ingredients to ensure you get the smoothest shave possible.


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[Assistant] And getting your hands on a trial set couldn't be easier to arrange.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just enter your details online and you'll get a package delivered to your door with all you need to get going including a weighted ergonomic handle ensuring maximum comfort and grip while you shave and five precision engineered blades with a lubricating strip and a trimmer blade.


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[Assistant] My handle came in a vivid orange colour, papaya orange, mclaren orange you might say, but you can also choose from olive or navy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'll also get a foaming shave gel to keep your skin looking good and a handy little travel blade cover to protect your kit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So get started shaving with Harrys today by claiming your trial set for £3.95.


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[Assistant] Support our podcast and get your trial set delivered to you, including a razor handle, five blade cartridge, foaming shave gel and a travel blade cover by going to harrys.com forward slash F1 podcast. That's harrys.com forward slash F1 podcast. Now let's get back to Yoss.


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[Assistant] So what, Max was born in 19... Seven. Seven, wasn't he? So you were at Tyrrell at the time.


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[Assistant] How often did he come to races with you? I mean, was, was like the first thing he ever saw almost, was a racing car?


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[Assistant] And then given that mum Sophie's very good kart racer, isn't she? It's kind of, he was only ever going to do one thing. Is that fair?


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[Assistant] Anything else that he could have done? Was there anything else he was particularly good at from a sporting point of view?


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[Assistant] And what about his siblings? Any of, you know, he's the only Verstappen, baby Verstappen that we talk about, but of course he's got, what is it, how many, what are his siblings?


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[Assistant] Can you describe the moment when you realised Max really had something?


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[Assistant] And so what I'm finding fascinating is that some people might think


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[Assistant] And so here's the ten million dollar question. Is he better than you? Much better than I am.


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[Assistant] That makes him a lot better. I kind of get the impression, and tell me if I'm wrong, that your racing career...


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[Assistant] But at what level are you discussing? Are you talking big picture career decisions? Or will you say, dad, I'm really struggling with that corner? I mean, anything.


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[Assistant] You're obviously seeing his career right from the inside. I'm looking at it from the outside and I see a huge change in him midway through last year, 2018.


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[Assistant] That's his sort of on track demeanour, but I also mean off track. He speaks. I cannot believe he's only 21.


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[Assistant] And you know, I look at another driver who equally talented, Lewis Hamilton, he felt


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[Assistant] And how about your relationship with Christian Horner, Helmut Marko, the big cheeses at Red Bull? It's very good. We never have issues.


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[Assistant] It's interesting, well we're talking about Red Bull. Do you remember, so you came in at the end of 93, had lots of offers, ended up with a championship winning team. When Max was in F3,


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[Assistant] You had everybody wanting you. What was it about Red Bull that made you jump that way? He offered us.


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[Assistant] Were you at all nervous? I mean, given that you actually said a little bit earlier that you probably weren't quite ready for that race drive at 94.


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[Assistant] And that gave you the confidence to say, son, go for it.


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[Assistant] And are you pleased, well you must be pleased, but how do you assess his 2019 season so far? Because he's had to step up, he's become the number one, and he's been very seamless from where I'm...


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[Assistant] Are any of the Honda guys in the pit lane now, uh, from when you were there, are any of the same faces?


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[Assistant] But enough to see Max Verstappen commit to the team in the longer term?


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[Assistant] And is it lost on you the fact that you're kind of, he's kind of racing for the team that you race for?


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[Assistant] Well, Yas, it's been wonderful to talk to you. I suppose final thoughts for me are, how do you...


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[Assistant] Reflect on your life so far. I mean, first of all, the racing career, when you look back at that Formula One career, how do you reflect on it?


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[Assistant] And would you rather, this might seem an odd question, but would you almost rather be having the success with Max than you having it yourself 20 years ago? Absolutely. Why is that do you think?


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[Assistant] Great to chat to you. Let's hope lots more of a Stappan success in the future.


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[Assistant] That's how you do it racing dads. Have your own F1 career, learn from your mistakes, and ensure your son doesn't do the same. Easy, eh?


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[Assistant] Perhaps that helps explain why so many racing sons go on to become top drivers themselves.


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[Assistant] There were some great stories in that chat, but Yoss only truly came alive when talking about Max, who he is clearly immensely proud of, and rightly so. It was fascinating to hear his thoughts on Schumacher, Briatore and the rest, but you sense that Yoss only likes to look forward now, and the future is Max.


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[Assistant] It was great to catch up, Jos. Thanks for your time. Well, that's it for this episode. But before we go, a big thanks for all your feedback on last week's episode with Alex Albon. You had a lot to say about him and there appears to be a lot of love out there for the young Red Bull driver. This message from Abiyomi on Twitter stood out.


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[Assistant] That was by far the most refreshing and human episode of F1 Beyond the Grid, yet Alex Albon has gone through a lot at such a young age. Yet he's still steely behind those calm eyes. You sense he's ready for whatever life brings next. He's here to stay.


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[Assistant] Well, it really looks like that, doesn't it, Aberyomi? Alex is modest, unassuming, and he's been through a lot to get to this point. I wish him every success in the future.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So please keep your feedback coming. We love it. Remember to use the hashtag F1 Beyond the Grid and you can tweet me at Tom Clarkson F1. We'll be back next week with another big name from the world of F1. Until then, why not subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast app and leave us a review. Both help us enormously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bonjour, je suis Patrick També et vous êtes à l'écoute de Beyond the Grid.


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[Assistant] I just happened to be in Monaco when they rolled out the new Formula Renault for 72.


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[Assistant] And I said, you can drive this car. Yeah, it's here to, for promotion, for you to see. We're going to be able to run you if you want. At Paul Ricard, and I was happy to go down to Paul Ricard because it's closer to home, you can. And, uh, I didn't expect to be a racing driver. I didn't want to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I thought that I couldn't make it. I looked at the pictures of Sporto, of magazines, and that's all. I'm really excited by that.


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[Assistant] No, I didn't know if I was mad enough. I just wanted to ski. I just wanted to ski also very close to where we live in Cannes. It takes an hour to go up in the mountains and being capable of finding a downhill, uh, FIA, uh, uh, uh, piste.


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[Assistant] Not good enough to become Kili or Perea. Jean-Claude Kili is a great, great skier. He's also a great driver, but he can only concentrate for 2 minutes and 50 seconds, which is the lap of Daga Florio, for example, which he did.


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[Assistant] On the storyboard of the drivers that have come to the school, you must come back.


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[Assistant] For the, for the finals. So I did come back and I blew them into the weeds because I had a lot of training.


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[Assistant] Well, I fell in love with an American girl. And, uh, that happened. That is a story that comes in the book, so you'll have to wait. But, uh, it's basically because I felt the American way of life was great.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I mean I can't wait for life. Like me also. So we decided to go.


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[Assistant] Yes. I've lost, I've lost my English, I'm sorry. Lost most of my English. This is due to the Parkinson and the fact that you also a little bit Alzheimer. So it's like you've taken some...


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[Assistant] What's for a reason for me being a racing driver?


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[Assistant] No, in Boulder University they didn't have any race track. They have one now, I think. And no, it was not racing in the States either.


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[Assistant] Just with the opening up, the little instant of decision making to go back to the States to race.


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[Assistant] Well, it was the first time in 77, it was to build up my experience in Formula One. I started at the same time, mid-season, in Formula One and in Canham. And the reason was to build up enough purse money to be able to pay Teddy Yip for my


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Step into Formula One. With Theodore. With Theodore. Yea. And C. Taylor, and that was 80,000 US dollars.


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[Assistant] He was a good racing driver. He didn't have the proper equipment. I was going to blow him off. Which I did. But that was before.


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[Assistant] Going out with a boat and almost flipping it over. With you in it. It's a bad boat.


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[Assistant] Helicopter. I think I feel the helicopter was the worst.


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[Assistant] Overloading the helicopter in the mountains in Tupalu, where he was staying for skiing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Overloading with the Christmas presents, grandparents, father, mother, Jack and Melanie, and going down the hill to try to get some speed, to be able to hover up, and at the end, it was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm almost not reachable, the speed was not enough, but he still managed to go down the, in the big hole, get some speed and came back up.


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[Assistant] It's American Briefcase, it's American Watch and it's American Way of Saying Stuff.


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[Assistant] Yes, and uh, I don't know, it sounded more strong than the contract with Ferrari, which had been put out, the meeting with Enzo had been postponed, so I thought,


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[Assistant] I better hold on to that. A couple years, he said James Hunt would be a better teammate than Carlos Hoytoman. The Goodyear Tars were going to be better than the Michelin Tars. They came up with all sorts of good, good points, good excuses and I said, okay, I go with you.


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[Assistant] Good little team, but we had to borrow gearbox from the bigger team in order to have a straight line speed.


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[Assistant] I tried to go to match his speed.


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[Assistant] At the time, we didn't have a car, new car every year. We were split on the, on the seasons. And I don't think that the M26, that he had to drive.


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[Assistant] Like I had, was a good enough car to be able to bring him to another championship, which he was true. And afterwards came the Michelin, and that was even more, even stronger.


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[Assistant] At the time I was with John Watson driving an M28, which was the first of the McLaren's carbon fiber chassis, and that broke our momentum a little bit.


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[Assistant] Nothing that I could use again. I just learned that it was good fun to have around the racetracks, especially when you go from Argentina to Brazil or Brazil to Argentina for two weeks in a row there.


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[Assistant] The mechanics, McClan mechanics, learned that, uh, why I destroyed three McClan's. Three.


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[Assistant] The Brazilian lady that I had met at the time.


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[Assistant] I would have liked to have a reunion with her and compare our notes now. That's what James taught me, taught me really, really, uh, and Patrick McNally, McNally, also from Philip Morris, which was James' teammate.


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[Assistant] Get back into this, uh, carousel.


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[Assistant] Basically the equipment.


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[Assistant] I called Carl Ass and he kind of understood that I was calling for help. And he said come over. And I got back there and it started over again.


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[Assistant] I was looking around, I was looking around for something to happen. I was looking for a match, which didn't happen, did not happen with Ligé. I know now why, but the first race,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was it French Grand Prix in, uh, Magny-Cours?


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[Assistant] And, uh. What do you mean? Oh, more courvoisier or, or, drinks, hard liquor drinks on the briefing table when there was engineers paperwork. I assume today they have, uh,


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[Assistant] And I almost lost my two legs in Las Vegas. By breaking the car in two.


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[Assistant] So, I came out of the car forward without having to use a safety belt. I mean, it was a big shunt. No dash, no gear lever, no information anymore and I just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Monza, Monza was, uh, not my fault. Monaco was. I went on to Bundle with the new Lola Ford. I was using the Ford engine for the first time. I was six. And, uh, I tried to go to get that point.


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[Assistant] Remember the time in 4, in Formula 1, with the turbo engine, you had to have a lot of smooth pick-up. And power had to come soon, and linear, and we couldn't, it was too violent.


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[Assistant] Well, I mean, it depends on the speed you're gaining to the corner, obviously. But, uh, we got to Le Rouge, first lap, very stable. I'm driving a Formula 3.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Second lap flat and they're on flat all the time. Are you going to say, well, you were getting to the corner slowly, maybe a little bit slower than the regular guys. But, uh, no, the car felt, you were, you felt that you were driving a real racing car.


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[Assistant] And, uh, it's been good because we kept, uh, having a good relationship with after that. About the human part of, of the game. And that was really nice. Especially going to Goodwood and me and seeing them again.


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[Assistant] Rej. Rej is a good guy, when you are his teammate. If you're not...


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[Assistant] Back, sleeping, shack, holding on to the two, and the rest there is, and saying, faster daddy, faster daddy. And jumping from one corner to the next. Like crazy. He was playing with his kids also.


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[Assistant] And no, no, no surprise that Jack has become a crazy nutter also.


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[Assistant] But he was, he called me to, to announce that, uh, Gilles had had a bad accident. He didn't tell me that, uh, he was calling me for, for, uh, to take over his, his, uh, his, his place. Uh, he didn't say that was the purpose and I didn't really


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Deep friends of Gilles, to find out what uh, situation would be with him. With Ferrari, first of all, because I didn't know what, where it left under the special, special terms and, strange terms, and Gilles had picked up the whole of uh, number one driver.


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[Assistant] In the end, I didn't know what it was going to be, but it was going to be all good.


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[Assistant] Because I think everybody felt it. Everybody felt the situation. And the...


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[Assistant] Because Pironi has had the feeling that it was okay. The Ferrari felt that they couldn't say no.


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[Assistant] You don't replace anyone. Your friend or mate or, or, uh, adversary. It's not a replacement. You're taking your place over. It's not true. You don't replace it. Replace it.


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[Assistant] Impression that I was doing it for us. And he was part of the adventure. I was finishing up his job.


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[Assistant] That's why he probably had that accident. It got better and better and better when they tried to stiffen it. Uh, Harvey Porcelain had done a great work with it. It was carbon fiber and honeycomb.


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[Assistant] And they started to try to make it stiffer, sturdier on the backhand. Not to be flexing too much, with all the big power that we had. The car had to not be flexing. And uh,


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[Assistant] Gearbox was just a piece of beautiful machinery like Ferrari would expect you to have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was a transversal ear box. I could just play with it with two to two fingers. And I just, when I went to Renault the following year, 1984,


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[Assistant] We worked on it with, uh, Tomaso Carletti, which was my engineer at Ferrari, and he had come with me at Renault. And, uh, he tried, he tried, he tried, he tried to improve the, the gearbox, but, uh, never succeeded. Should have worked on the, on the fuel consumption. How did you find?


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[Assistant] Can you speak Italian? I could a little bit at the time. I just picked up every day a word, just better and better as we went along. But I can't talk all the conversation. I could not.


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[Assistant] So I think he was surprised also with what I produced. In fact, he did because...


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[Assistant] I learned afterwards that he was very impressed, or he cried on the TV, he was an old man, but he cried watching the end of the race.


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[Assistant] I think Didier Pironi was scheduled to win it. He has a big, big misunderstanding with Alan Post.


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[Assistant] On the brackets in the front and they had to be severely


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[Assistant] Taken care of by Prof. Saillon in Paris. And that was a bad, bad time also for us.


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[Assistant] If I can brag about doing it like that, that way. We were fighting against the Brabhams that were on one stop. We had to start with a full tank. So initially we were slow, but then we had to go fast in the second part of the race, which is what I did.


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[Assistant] Very, very, very emotional before the start. I'm sitting in the car, going into the slot and I see the flag painted in front of the


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[Assistant] Box where I supposed to stand, so I don't go there, I stay behind for, by respect for the flag and for the Italian crowd that painted that.


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[Assistant] I have a fuel pick-up problem in the, in the tempo I lost.


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[Assistant] It's easy to say afterwards, but I had no, I had no real feeling, uh, except


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[Assistant] I thought, a massage happened. Look around, going back, but very quickly, and I couldn't see anything. And uh,


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[Assistant] I had the feeling then that I had been waken up by something extra.


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[Assistant] Now we came to the point where, what do we do? We have Alborito, we have the other two, what do we do? Which one do we take? Marco, obviously, decided to go for René Arnoux. He had played the game better than me.


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[Assistant] For a year they wanted to keep me for development, for the car, for the time that I spent with them and I felt it was the right thing to do. It was fair and yes, I mean we had a good relationship. It was okay.


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[Assistant] It was like, uh, Disney Disneyland. It was a total different atmosphere.


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[Assistant] It was an American way of being, racing.


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[Assistant] Yes, it was Mario Andretti, and fair enough, but I mean I had a problem with my shoulder, and I had to take an injection of Novocaine to stop the problem. And I drove that race with one arm, pretty much.


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[Assistant] I finished second to René Arnoux, which is now with Renaud.


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[Assistant] There were three Ferrari drivers on the podium. So that's why he was very pleased with them.


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[Assistant] It's very important for the team and that's why I took it positively. I also went for it because I didn't want to be beaten by the old guy.


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[Assistant] With, with me. I think we've won a championship.


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[Assistant] Yes, because if you remember, had many, many problems with the fuel. Fuel, cables, while leading the race, in Dijon brakes, in Monza, brakes of,


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[Assistant] McLean, Porsche engine, had the DB electronic, right? DB metal electronic. We only had the mechanic.


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[Assistant] Because I wanted to do all the things that I didn't have the time to do or the authorization to do.


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[Assistant] No, no, I should have materialized and concretized the potential. I think I had more.


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[Assistant] But it would not have been as diversified, but it would have been better, probably.


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[Assistant] I remember the year before when you had the tollman and the guy went and checked front left, front right, rear left, rear right. He wanted to know what all the guys in front had put on for the race in terms of chassis handling and tower and stuff like that.


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[Assistant] No, I'm just a bloke that is happy to be back and finding that he is not forgotten by you because I didn't know you.


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[Assistant] And if I had a biscuit, I'm so sorry, I'm very rude, but if I had a biscuit, would you eat it? Yeah. You would eat a biscuit. Ah yeah, that's right.


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[Assistant] So what are you going to do about a driver, a second driver or anything?


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[Assistant] I mean, I have my preferences, which is normally a chicken wrap with rice and guacamole.


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[Assistant] I mean that, that's, I go through a big, a huge quantity of raps.


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[Assistant] This is not on my favorites list, but sometimes you just gotta...


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[Assistant] Uhm, my trainer pretty much decides, or doesn't decide, but he gives me a whole list of things I can choose from that I should have.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but I mean, this is all cold now. I just had a meeting in the, in the truck. And, uh, this has been sitting in front of me for at least an hour.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Test one, no. Test one, I was, by the end of it I was struggling, I did the race run and everything, and I did a decent amount in the gym, not, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, not every single day going at it, but what I, I needed to do, what my trainer said, you need to do these amount of days and so on. So I've done all of that. So I was feeling good, but, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After a winter break and be, be fine. It's just...


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[Assistant] The way of how driving a car works, you just can't replicate it by someone pulling on your neck and sitting off the side of your bed doing neck exercises.


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[Assistant] Uhm, because you don't have the whole force on your body and your shoulders in the same position. Uhm, and you can replicate as much as you want but...


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[Assistant] You're not driving a Formula One car until you're driving a Formula One car.


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[Assistant] It is. And I think for us, obviously, uh, we had, you know, compared to Mercedes, I'm sure they struggled to make as...


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[Assistant] I'm hoping they can't take as much of a step forward as what we should be able to, let's say. Uhm, and we want to be getting closer to them, so we should be the ones getting much quicker in the corners, which you do notice physically, because you go from doing your qualifying runs, or you do practice runs,


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[Assistant] Cornering speeds go up, you feel it, physically, straight away, you know, you're going 5, 10k quicker in the corners, uhm, especially around here, turn 3, turn 1, turn 4, medium and high speed corners, and you feel it straight away, so.


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[Assistant] But, uh, and for us we've taken a step forward in those medium and high speed corners, so physically it is tougher. Uhm, but day one I struggled. And everyone struggled on the grid.


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[Assistant] I mean, even the people who have been in it for 10 years and know what to expect and how it's gonna be.


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[Assistant] This week I'm, I'm much better. Like after recovering and just doing, getting the first weekend, the first week out of the way, the first few days.


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[Assistant] Letting your body recover after getting used to how everything works again. Uhm, I did my race run, I did all the quali runs and, uh,


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[Assistant] There's a different pressure. There's less pressure altogether. Less pressure that I put on myself. I think last year I put a lot of pressure on myself. Uhm.


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[Assistant] Because I didn't know how I was going to do, I did well in some testing and everything, but that's not the actual race weekend.


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[Assistant] But, I put a lot of pressure on myself not knowing what to expect. Now, I know what to expect. I don't need to put that pressure on myself. Uhm, I didn't need to put it on before, but I just, I was putting it on myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So now I'm, I feel much better for my own well-being, but then at the same time, there's always pressure from just being a Formula One driver. Uhm, working for McLaren.


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[Assistant] We're still humans. We, we make mistakes sometimes. It's, it's expected. Of course, being last year in my first year, it was expected more so. So you have a bit more leeway to make those mistakes. And if it does happen, it's, don't worry. You're, don't do it again. Um, but I'm more confident in myself and I know I will do a better job. Um, but it is, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's Formula One, there is pressure, there's always going to be pressure. No matter if you're in your... You know, I'm sure for Lewis...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's still pressure, there's still some expectation for him to do well and so on. But...


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[Assistant] I think you just get a bit used to it and it becomes the norm. So then it just, you don't feel it eventually in certain ways.


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[Assistant] It's uhm, it's much better actually. Uhm, especially my understanding for the car and how it works. Cause everyone cars are so complicated, it's insane. Uhm.


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[Assistant] Uhm, you know, the difference is from a bumpy track to a smooth track and how the car operates. There's always a little window for how the car perfectly operates and you always want to try and get it in that window for different tracks. And sometimes you can't and you have to adjust your driving style to suit that. So the understanding for how the car needs to be driven and set up and so on.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and my ideas and knowledge for the setup and what, you know, I can now.


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[Assistant] Say I think we should try this because I remember when we did that last year, that was a good step forward. So I have some memories and


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[Assistant] Things I can look back on and say, we have to do this or this work last time and so on. Do you keep a notebook? No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have our own chat and we always write anything that I come up with or I have an idea for or they do, we put it in the chat and we discuss it next time we see each other. So, I guess we go to social.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a lot of circumstances when they're saying, I think we should do this, I was agreeing to it. I'm like, yep. Boxer slap, yep. Okay, I'm doing, I'll do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because that's what they think is the best at that time and, and so on. So I always, there was a lot of yeses. I was yes man last year. And this year already, in pre-season, like they're saying, all right, Lando box this lap. And I said no. I feel so bad. Like, no. I'm doing another lap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I say, no, I just, I didn't feel like I got it right. I want to, I need a bit more of a feeling for the setup or I just want to get turn right. I get, um, turn one right, uh, before we go into the qualifying run or I want to try this or something. So for my own good and for the good for everyone, actually, it's, um, I'm a bit more demanding what I want to do and want to achieve. And, um, yeah, it's not just for my own benefit, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They also trust me when I say it. It's not like I always get it wrong and I'm saying yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I'm arrogant, but I'm saying yes because it's the best thing for, for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not completely. Sometimes it was the contrast. Sometimes it was like I would do it and sometimes I didn't necessarily want the fastest car. I wanted one that I felt good in and I felt like I could be confident in. Uhm, already like in Australia last year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My first time, Carlos was going with a bit more aggressive, one he felt maybe not so confident with, maybe he felt confident, but compared to me, I'm like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't want to lose confidence basically. So go for a slightly softer setup and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you have that and then you have the other timers. I'm like, look, Carlos did that and it looked like a good step. Let's just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do what he's done. And sometimes that's between FP3 and qualifying. Sometimes that's from FP2 to FP3.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I wouldn't say I just followed what they did because it was my first time and I didn't know what to do. I think...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm happy with what we did between my engineers and myself that we always did what we thought was best for us, us as a team, and for me and my driver.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Transferred it in the best driver feeling way to an engineer who's not driven a Formula One car and he looks at graphs and he tries to judge a car from that. Uhm, cause it's not, no, we didn't just say, yeah, we've got understeer here and I just turn the wheel more and it doesn't grip. We have to try and explain it in a way to a guy who designs it and comes up with these ideas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know, you need to tell them every little bit of detail that maybe puts the car in a certain position, whether it's a few millimetres, that's massive in Formula 1. Uhm, so it's like, you need to describe everything. And uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I get into something, I just, I have to complete it. I have to finish it. I have to do all the details.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when I'm cleaning the house, I can't just start it. Like once I've started, I will spend all night until three in the morning or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably because I started at like 12 o'clock and I just had this stupid idea to go, I want to start cleaning up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just can't stop it and go, yeah, I'll leave this for tomorrow. I have to complete it and do everything. And then I go to bed at stupid o'clock, four in the morning going. Having cleaned the house. I've cleaned it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm just having so much fun, I don't go, oh, I'm getting a bit tired now. I just, the fun overrides all of that and the enjoyment overrides all of that. Uhm, and I become a nerd and I spend however many hours that is. When you say designing your own clothing. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is it a fleece? Just a normal jumper that's got no hoodie on? Apart from when I have to dress a bit smarter. Then I wear it, but any time I'm travelling I'm in casual clothing. From here to the airport in a bit. From...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anytime you see me traveling, I will not be wearing a normal jumper. I'll always be wearing a hoodie. Because you're trying to hope. No, I just love hoodies. I just love hoodies. They're comfortable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Half the time. Incognito. Yeaah. With my headphones over the top. I still can't work out if I put my headphones under the hoodie or my headphones over the hoodie. Or I just get in-ear Bluetooth headphones. I've not worked that one out yet. But, uhm, yeaah, no, I just, I'm not good at Photoshop. I'm not good at those kind of things, but I still can create little logos. I mean, I use my logo and I'm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cut it up into a few bits and then kind of put it back together and it looked a bit jagged and so on. And uhm, I dunno, it just looks cool and it's a bit of a style and stuff. Uhm, or you can do different colours for it and just create some stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, yeaah, I just had that, like, with the cleaning stuff. This moment I'm, I'm like, I got this idea. I just want to create a jumper and sell it. And then I do the creative jumpers and then some t-shirts, uhm, I mean, and phone cases as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I completed it. I was happy with myself that I completed it. Are you very arty? Uhm, I have a keen eye for art.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hand painting on a canvas, but more the graphic design, the cool, uhm, interaction parts, the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the more fun stuff rather than painting on a canvas. I didn't enjoy that kind of stuff. But the uhm, yeah, graphic design is probably one of the best ways to say it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, just coming up with some, I don't know, just if I have an idea, I love doing it. I even remember, back in school,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I still got this, like uhm, we created this on a big, like, big poster. We coloured in, it sounds really sad now. Coloured in like a picture of the Joker. This Joker.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, I know it's still really cool to actually have it at my parents' house. Uh, it's still there. But no, we just have cool, there's cool things which I, I like and I'm, I have an interest for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, which I love and I love to keep those things and keep the memories for it. And that's something I love doing since I was really young. Uhm, and doing some like photography and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would spend a lot of time doing it, like hours and hours and hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Coming up with it and stuff. I spent hours doing that and I did a lot in school and the drawings and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I stopped that and I found more of the graphic design and coming up with the helmet designs, my suit design, boots, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's when it felt more like what I would create, I would be wearing and it felt more part of me rather than drawing a picture of a bottle or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I did one year of homeschooling in my final year, which was my year of GCSEs. Before that we were like, let's see, I hung on as much as I could with being at school and catching up on lost time and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wednesday, Thursday, Racing Friday, Saturday, Sunday.


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[Assistant] And that's a lot of time, Wednesdays, I travel Tuesday evening or Tuesday lunchtime would have to leave sometimes. So you did one and a half days a week.


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[Assistant] No, I mean, I wouldn't change it for anything. Of course I missed out on things and I missed out on a lot of normal people things and stuff you grow up doing with your friends at school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have not really kept in contact with any of my friends, which is sad.


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[Assistant] It is kind of a sad thing to think about, but uh, yeaah. I do feel like I missed out on, on certain things. Uhm, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to change it to do anything else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was tough. It's not old. It wasn't old.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I made the transition from, I did Geneta and the World Championships before F4 in 2015, so.


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[Assistant] Being four or five years old, I just loved it. It was so cool and the colors and everything. Uhm, yeaah. And he's the guy since that age that I've always looked up to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, what was it like to meet him? Well, it was weird because I'm at the point where, you know, I'm old enough now and like mature enough that is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I want to say, I don't know what I would have done if I didn't watch him, but he inspired me to do a lot of the things that I've done and to start motor racing and... Did you tell him that? Uhm, no. What was the first thing I said? How's it going? So boring. Uhm, yeah, it was one of the first things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do a race together. He does a bit of car racing. He did Dubai 12 hours, is it? End of last year. He does a few car races.


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[Assistant] When I was much younger, uhm, still got it now actually. Can't start it for some reason. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I started to do that and I loved it. I would spend as much time doing it as I could. But I had...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I went over and I landed on the front wheel and went over the bike landed on me and I saw six, six years old, seven years old. Scared me. Didn't want to do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and it kind of stopped for a little while.


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[Assistant] Uhm, it was the British Championships and somehow we found out that it was, or he found out that it was there. And we went to watch on a Sunday afternoon, uhm, just in time for the final. And it was really cool. It was my first thing I went to go and watch. And I, yeah, it was just really cool to see it at that age.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my dad went around asking people if they had any spare suits and boots, because I said I wanted to have a go, but I wasn't allowed. It was a proper race weekend. Uhm, she was going around asking people, you got anything spare? You got anything you don't need anymore? And we ended up going away with, I remember the blue sparko suit, I think it was. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some pair, a pair of boots which are way too big for me. And then I had to buy the helmet and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, yeaah, that was that. That was my first time and not long after, I think for my seventh birthday, I got a Bambino go-car. Which I started driving around at home in a little...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Square bit of tarmac where I put some cones out and I would drive around, it was pretty small. But uhm, yeaah, I did that. Loved doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was, I felt more in control than I ever did in a bike. Well actually, I had the quad bike before I had the bike. And I loved that. So I loved the four wheels actually.


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[Assistant] For the first year or so, cause he's a bit older than me, 3 years, 4 years.


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[Assistant] And George was the guy. He was the, he was the champion. I don't know if he was the champion, but he was the guy winning races. He was a cool guy.