[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is just an example hypothetical, but they won't necessarily be concerned about-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Older am I unattractive now or am I losing it now or something like that? That's what they're insecure about. So when someone points out some symptom of that insecurity, that's when they're like, well, you don't gotta say that or, you know, they get on. Oh man, that goes for kind of anything. So maybe, I don't know, maybe someone's saying, Hey, you didn't explain this enough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, you know exactly. I don't know. Yeah, but maybe. But that's typically what people get mad about. It's not necessarily if they know it's true or not. It's if they're insecure about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sometimes you do. Sometimes it's like a weird mental problem, but you know, girls for example, I'm not saying all girls, but I'm going to totally generalize right now. But you know, the girl who's like, hey do I look fat in this? The girl's like in awesome shape or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's like that kind of stuff, you know, people are just insecure about stuff sometimes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even guys, when, especially like if they're into like their physique or something like that, where,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, they're at a party or something. I've heard guys like they go to parties and they'll do like dips or pushups before they walk in. Because like, so they're like more pumped. I swear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you do a good job of seeing the big picture though. You know, like, cause a lot of times, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, I always think back to, you know, the, the relation. Like, okay, let's say, let's say I'm at home, I'm mowing the lawn, I, I, you know, did all this, these great housework chores, whatever, you know, dad comes home, mom comes home, and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm mad. You know, how dare you say that to me when I did this, me, me, my thing, my thing, but at the same time, they're right. You know, so you do a good job of like, you'd be able to kind of recognize that even though you'd probably feel those same feelings. You won't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your default isn't, what about this? And fight back and make the problem bigger. It's kinda like, you'll feel it on the inside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't bullrush or overpower lighter partners. I wanna improve my jujitsu knowledge and understand the intent of reducing my strength and, uh, reducing my strength to learn the skill. But where, where is the balance? I feel like, I feel like I'm doing, uh, being penalized for working hard and being strong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there has to be an element of strength, uh, to technique, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now that I'm trying to do zero strength working weak positions and they still go 100% on me, I'm not learning anything, right? That's what he's asking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is my 25% stronger than my training partners? 100%. I've trained no gi for 4 years, but gi only for 12 months. Don't judge a white belt warrior.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and certain, I found that like certain guys, that's just their, just their method really. They're just strong. Yeah, and that's how they roll and they're just aggressive physically, that's how.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I found that they can, a lot of times they can get more technical, you know, but really, that's kind of their, their strengths in a way, and that's, it's just their way of rolling, and some guys are the opposite.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you can, but people are different, like, let's say, uhm, like, remember Franklin? Yeah, flexible, crazy. Okay, consider him, where he's gonna be real technical and flexible and flowy and stuff, and that's his jujitsu. You can, he can, I need to be more strong and rigid and aggressive. He can train that, but his default is that flowy,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's gonna be kinda their default. They can train, kinda deviate a little bit and get it more for sure, but that's kinda just their, that's the vehicle they have, you know? It's almost like a genetic thing. It's not genetic, I know that, but it's kinda, it's almost like the foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. He, yeaah, he was getting good for a while. Yeaah, really good. Still good though. Still good. Uhm, but yeaah, it's kinda...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's, it's more of a mental thing, like if you mentally have, there's drills like you can do, you remember, um, Jerry Loudon was his name, he jammed up his knees, but we used to do this thing, he's like, hey, let's just flow, right? And you know how people say, let's just flow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he wouldn't though, he would be like, his flow would be like a fast pace and you could even try to hold him down and he'd just be like, flowing, flowing, flowing, he would get you in a good position and then he'd get right out of it into another, you know, like he was really good at flowing to the point where, bro you get,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really translated. When I would roll, it would be like, I felt like that difference in technique.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, Andy's real good at that stuff too. But that's a good way though. Like if you, it's a conscious thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another little mindset that might help... is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And really, it's true though, here's the thing, this element needs to be there, where when it's time to spar,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Should be competitive. Otherwise, it's like, what are we doing? You know, I want it, I want you to be competitive because I want an accurate look of what it's like to roll with Jocko or a guy like Jocko, big, strong, good at Jiu Jitsu, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're just flow rolling with me non-competitively every single time, I'm not getting the work that I need. Really, I'm not getting the good training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, it's so crazy how you just explain that so simple. And it makes total sense when you're in this situation though.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If, okay, that person a liar, that person a cheater, and what I kinda said there was like, you don't understand the good time, that's a real part of it. Oh, for sure. Cause that's really, it's like, sure they did this, sure she, uhm, uh, flats my tires when she gets measure, all that, but the good times we have are so good. So it's, it's, it's proof.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not about the person. It's not about the person that you can see all the red flags and how they mistreat you from time to time. It's about yourself and how you're sad now because of all these reasons. But the trick comes with what one of the tricks comes with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With, uhm, same thing I said about drinking, where it's your brain, cause it's like chemicals, when you bond with someone in certain ways, and it's different from, you know, it varies from person to person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like, I think it's like oxytocin or I don't know, something where it's, it's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That your emotional, like, well-being is attached to this person kind of thing, right? And all the other stuff you just kind of ignore. So just like, uhm, I was saying with drinking, right? Well, I know. Consciously, like, I'm gonna be...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hangover tomorrow. I won't get anything done. All this stuff. Why do I want to drink so bad right now? You know, kind of thing. Uhm, and it's the same thing. The chemicals in your brain are telling you, like, this girl is essential for you. You know, for your well-being. She's not. Yeah, oh, that's the logic, though. That's a lot. It's a trick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's why you- Bro, I'm telling you, but that's the logic. Which, those chemicals are blocking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And look, the fantasy, and they just attach to it. You ever see, uh, like a friend or whatever, cause I'm assuming you've never been in this situation, like you ever had a friend where they're really into it, they're almost ruining their lives, they're in bad shape or whatever and then


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I think knowing that that's it, it's a chemical in your brain that is tricking you. And it goes for a lot of stuff. Donuts, like all this stuff. It's tricking you. If you know like, hey, and you say, hey, I'm not gonna be tricked. I feel it. I feel the sadness. I feel missing this person. But it's a trick, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so what circumstances do you recommend direct attack in combination with indirect? If any. Or, do you have any examples?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This actually isn't really a question, it's more of a comment. Yeah, I kind of turned it into a question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. You responded to the comment. Okay. Sure. Anyway, comment goes. Just want to say a quick thanks. I struggle with the daily grind trading days for dollars. But you helped me make it happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No man, and that's, there's a lot of tricks there too. Where, you know, I would talk about the hyperbolic discounting, when you basically go for the short term payoff, at the expense of the long term payoff. So let's say you have an exit strategy for five years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It helps, actually, this is like for real help, night and day, where if you look at that end exit strategy as like a, you know, a goal or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the time in between now and then is preparation time. That's all that is. So a lot of times, like, I remember when I was working at the nightclub, that was a full on, like, ooh, nightclub, cool job, all short term pay off stuff, living kind of day to day, week to week, I get my paycheck, I go hang out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Go work, paycheck, hang out. So it's all just short term payoffs, right? So I was in there for like years. How many years? Seven. So wait, wait, no, six. So I was the end of, like almost seven. So, yeah, nightclub, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember thinking, when I was like, over it already, uhm, I remember thinking, dang, I, I feel like I waste a lot of years. I think back now, I didn't, cause I learned a lot of like, psychological stuff, but uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remembered like reflecting and being like, man, I spent, yeaah, I went to college, all this stuff, really slacked through college, I spent it the same way, just like, okay, I'll take this class because I may or may not pass it, whatever, I just want to play football and be cool, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I reflect and I think, dang, I spent my life preparing for nothing. Really consciously. I mean, passively I did because I liked certain creative things and that, you know, materialized for sure, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I reflected and thought, man, I'm here, I spent my life up to this point preparing for nothing in life. I know about working out, that's it. So, a lot of times when you're making your, you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that's the good thing, how you're saying. It can take a year, it can take two years, five years, whatever. Start preparing for that five years. And at the end, when the five years comes, you are prepared. Straight up. If you spend one year doing something, focus, like, hey, I gotta get, even something like, I'm gonna play the piano, I don't know, anything. Bow and arrow, I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You spend one year focused on it, at the end of the year, you're gonna be pretty prepared. Yeah. Compared to the average person. So you spend like two years, five years preparing whatever that exit strategy is, and you're for real prepared. Spend, look at that time as this is preparation time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean in the nightclub it was, cause it was like a, a very recognizable payoff. You know, cause it's fun and there's this party going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even in these grinds, like, uhm, let's say I was working for a moving company one time, it was the same thing. I was looking for the weekend. It sucked, but eh, I was still, like the work part sucked, but I was looking forward to getting off work. Okay, the relief is, so it's the same dynamic, just kind of negative, you know, it's like the negative versus the positive is the relief kind of thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, yeah, so it's that, that carrot and the stick, you know, you know, so the nightclub was, I was just eating that carrot that was right in front of my face every day or every week or whatever. The, the movie company was like, I'm just trying to run away from the stick that's hitting me every day kind of thing. So I guess it just depends on how much you hate sticks and like carrots.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It becomes noise, that's why. Even you saying, what do you, what do you want to do with your future, bro? I've heard that since literally since I could understand English. What are you gonna do with your, what are you doing to prepare for your future? What are you gonna do? Do you see yourself doing this for, oh yeah, no, I don't know, leave me alone. It's just, it's a meme or anything, you know? You hear it all the time, so it doesn't mean anything. That's why a lot of times it takes like someone to either rephrase it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My son and I listened to your podcasts on the way home from hockey practice. And while I can see your message, I can't bring myself to employ it, which I would like to do so very badly. Any suggestions?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We all should support ourselves in this way. Similar to like on the airplane, like I said before, you know, the airplane, the oxygen mask, you gotta put on yourself before you can help the infant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not that the, not that this podcast is an infant or nothing. Well, maybe it is one year or whatever. Anyway, you know what I mean? So if you're, I've been into working out more, more consistently, which is saying a lot, cause those, you know, I'm no stranger to the workouts. Um.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, krill oil just got some more, boom. You know when you get new krill oil? Like I get it now before I run out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. So yeaah, you feel prepared. You are prepared. Yeaah, you are. Feel it, cause you are. Straight up. Anyway, Krill Oil, if you don't know...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, it's real good for your joints. And really, that's the- I mean, Omega 3 is good. Cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Question is, if you don't know, it's kinda like, what does that do for me? You know? Well, how is that gonna look? How's the omega-3's gonna benefit me? In-in the krill oil situation. It's your joints.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Especially if you do a lot of pressing exercises and jujitsu. Actually I shouldn't say especially, I'm just saying including, but not limited to hard pressing and jujitsu exercises. I like what you've done there. I'm telling you man, it's the truth. Uhm, anyway, yeaah, so get on that krill oil if you have joint, a joint situation, really.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I'll pour them out, you know? And they look like jelly beans? Yea. I didn't realize they look like jelly beans. My daughter, she's four.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Creal oil tablets is what they are. Uhm, no, Creal oil, little tablets, yea, you eat them. You chew them if you want. Swallow them, I recommend. Cause they, they smell and taste like Creal oil. Anyway, but they're good for your joints, yea. On it, okay, so the, really all the supplements you're gonna wanna take is from On It.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So go to OnIt.com, slash Jocko if you want the 10% off. But, like I said, back to the support part, where, okay, so you know how like, when you work out, and then, you ever work out and you're like, hey, my knees or my elbow or something is bothering you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fine. You can bench a bunch, you can squat a bunch, but it's like your elbow, it's like, you know, you're only as strong as your weakest link.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Elbows, knees, that's your weak link right there. That's what the krill oil does. That's what it alleviates, you know? That's important is what I'm saying. Yeah, I agree with you. Here's the thing, I didn't really understand that. But bro, I've done it where I've taken like ibuprofen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being strong, really? You know, you gotta patch that little thing. Naturally, like, cause it's not like you're putting cortisone shots or in my case ibuprofen just to mask the pain so you can get gains. It's different, it's like a whole thing. I was telling them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nonetheless, uh, if you like Krill, actually there's some good stuff- Oh, you know the per- Okay, so there's this total strength and performance, too? Uhm, I was- I was looking at that, because it's real interesting, like, stuff in the clinical studies, it's over time. So-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what I mean? Just like, real oil though, really. Like, cause here's why I got tricked. I didn't get tricked, but here's why I misunderstood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is usually a pre-workout has like caffeine and stimulants in it, you know? And sure it'll have like other stuff, allegedly, I don't know. But usually you take a pre-workout so you get fired up physiologically to go lift, get big pump, get all this, you know, this performance stuff or whatever from the caffeine and all that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Total strength and performance doesn't have caffeine. No it doesn't. Yeah. So it's a different, it's a whole different kind of system that's giving you, you know, the benefits.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Amen. You know? And, hey, going slick, that's cool. But, you don't have to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, some of us, we don't want that beef, you know, so we're gonna take the shroom tech, we're gonna take the, the krill, to me again, back, not to go too deep on the krill oil, but that one I think is like an essential, that's like an everyday thing, you know? Krill oil.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like people, they'll drink coffee every single day. You know what I mean? I say cool, drink coffee, but it should be like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is the Amazon click through all, all that is, is before you do your Amazon shopping, click through the website. I got a banner, little Amazon shopping banner. Got the .com, got the .co.uk one, and I want to say the Germany one too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over there on the side of the website, jocopodcast.com and also up top on the navigation menu. Easy to find is what you're saying. Easier than it was before for sure. Well that's good. And then on the store I think it's like in the support tab. Anyway, before you do your Amazon shopping, click on that first, then do your shopping. Regardless of what you're buying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I always make the sodium in the water reference, cause really that's what it is. Really. That's the best reference. I mean, the best analogy, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, okay, I said okay, dude, don't attack me. Yeah, but the way the tone was like, yeah, whatever, but here's the thing, that's a big deal. Small piece of sodium.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Drop it in water, see what happens. Just see what happens. Actually, don't do that. Look at, look up a video, see what happens. That's what's good. And that's what you are, really. You do the small action.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tell that to the sodium, yeaah, when he hits water. So anyway, yeaah, you go, and you do small action, it takes two sec- literally two seconds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What if you, you kinda needed some reinforcements and it took just one click of a thing and it brought just a full on reinforcement into your situation. That's good, right? Yeah. Small action, big reaction. Sounds good to me. Anyway, that's what the Amazon click through does and that's how you do it. Go to jockapodguest.com, click on the Amazon battery before you do the shopping.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Instant support. Uhm, and you can subscribe to the podcast on whatever iTunes provider platform you use. iTunes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, subscribe to our YouTube channel. We have a YouTube channel. I know a lot of people already know that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, well here's a good thing about subscribing to YouTube channels, is you just click subscribe. And I think, I guess it, you know, it shows the new videos in your feed. You can elect to have a notification or not. When new videos come up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I do now though. That's the thing. Actually depends on what you mean by a lot. So, at least two a week will be uploaded.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Verbally please. Yeah man, no, hey, uh, I'm accountable, you know. Okay, well yeah, you just made yourself accountable, so that's good. There it is. But yeah, subscribe. You'll be feeling a little bit of that extreme ownership on you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, good thing about subscribing to YouTube, you can just unsubscribe like anything else. It's not like these, you know, these marketers who email you stuff. It's like, hey, unsubscribe to all your emails.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so it's not like that kind where you click unsubscribe and then they email you again, by the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, or some- something. Yeah, it's not like that. Unsubscribe, done. Problem solved. And then you re-subscribe. It's totally up to you. Empower yourself on the subscribing situation. That's YouTube. Uhm, so yeah, some videos on there will, uhm, will try to keep you somewhat occupied on there. It's good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, and also, Jocko has a store, it's called JockoStore. JockoStore.com. If you wear shirts, and you want to represent that way, I think we're gonna put some new shirts on there. Some new stuff. You know what I did? What we did, really, is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, people listen to you, Jaco. I listen to you. But the good thing about you is actually, actually one of the, one of the reasons I listen to you is because you listen to me. And you listen to others, you know? We listen to others. So people be like, hey,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] xyz, make that into a shirt. Or, you know, hey, you said that, make that into a shirt. Or they'll just come up with their own thing, you know. Prioritize x, I don't know, whatever, make it a shirt. So, during that listening,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I kinda, we kinda, just took it to heart in a real general way. And there's some new stuff. I like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, or you know, something that maybe wouldn't translate onto a shirt that someone would actually wear, other than maybe a handful of people. Then we'll just say some shirt ideas make more sense than others. We'll just say that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But nonetheless, uh, we are listening and this is going to be a result of it with some, you know, maybe some new stuff. Uh, there's also some patches, cool patches, the Velcro ones and whatnot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hoodies, rash guards, performance. I think we're gonna do another rash guard design as well. Not gonna get rid of the old one, the old one, the, the, the current one is, that one's dope too. Nonetheless, just more options, you know, guys wanna get after it and have different looks, maybe even have two in rotation that look different, boom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yea, I'm gonna do that. Anyway, all these things, you can look at em. If you like what you see, one, two, three things, whatever, however many things, get it. Support that way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I saw, remember, uhm, ah, I don't know if, yea, you met him, right? Yea, yea, it's Sam. He came into the gym, the shavehead. Yea, yea, yea. He was just sitting there in the, down in the lounge downstairs. I'm, I'm going to get something to my car real quick. I see, I see the shirt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, also, Psychological Warfare. If you don't know what Psychological Warfare, this is what it is. It's an album with tracks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is- they're not music tracks. They're not Jocko's hardcore band tracks. Bronson's children's tracks. It's not that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What it is is, little, they're not even excerpts because they're just lone tracks for specific things, and those things are, if you're feeling weakness at any point, while you're trying to consistently get after it, wake up early, or work out, or,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, exactly. So if you're slipping, if you wanna really get after it, I'm gonna work up every single day, no days off, one year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Big, big, tall order right there. Just like if I'm- I'm gonna bench this f- 10,000 pounds. Whatever. I'm gonna make two videos a week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna bench more than I've benched before, but I'm gonna go for my one rep max. It makes sense to have a spot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, potentially, right? Yeah. So, basically what it is, is you put the track on, like, oh shoot, I'm about to skip this workout. I'm about to make this workout day a rest day. No, you're not. Yeah, you don't want to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, rest on the day that you have scheduled for rest, for real in your thing. Don't just impromptu make it a rest day because you feel like it's not how it works. If you need a little spot in doing that you listen to a track called


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Workout, get, what is, what, workout? I don't know, one of the workout spots. Cause there's, there's a couple for workout, there's one for waking up. There's three for waking up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, see? And there's one for kind of sticking to the diet plan, you know, like, there's that kind of stuff. And uhm, yea, you put it on, and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm trying to imagine the feeling that you would, that would result in your heart if you listen to this and you still skip the workout.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 75 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo. Good evening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have felt, we still feel the passion of life to its top.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lots of people know that, but they may not know Civil War Soldier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Served with the 20th regiment of Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Saw action all over the place. Peninsula campaign, the wilderness. He was wounded at the Battle of Balls Bluff. Also wounded at Antietam. And also wounded at the Battle of Chancellerville.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I think it's safe to say that he knew and understood war, and that quote right there is from the beginning of another book about another man that knew war.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Major Dick Winters, now we've covered Dick Winters before his book on this podcast. Number 17, Beyond Band of Brothers. Great book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lots of lessons learned. But there's another book, which is called Conversations with Major Dick Winters. Life Lessons from the Commander of the Banda Brothers. And it's written by a guy named Colonel Cole C. Kingseed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who was a friend of Dick Winters, and who actually was the co-author behind that book, Beyond Bandit Brothers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, what's cool about this book is it really parses out some lessons about leadership in a conversational manner with Dick Winters, the things that he thought, and the lessons that he learned, which


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[Assistant] I mean when you get an opportunity to learn from someone like this, you know what I do? I just be quiet. I listen and I learn or in this case I read and I learn.


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[Assistant] So this is also the guy, if you haven't seen this series on HBO.


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[Assistant] Banda Brothers, just go stop and just go watch it. It's, I don't know what it is, like 12, 12 episodes. They're all awesome. Everybody asks me all the time, what's realistic war movies?


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[Assistant] That one, Band of Brothers, and then the Pacific, both HBO series, they're both phenomenal, and I recommend you watch it, you'll learn a lot about Dick Winters on that, and the guy that plays Dick Winters does a great job.


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[Assistant] And the way they tell the story and the realism and all that, it's just an awesome series. But.


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[Assistant] Here we can learn not interpreted through a movie, but actually from the man as he spoke it. So, here we go. Taking it back to the book right now. From Dick Winters.


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[Assistant] D-Day was my first time in combat. So right there, let's just talk about that for a second. Your first time in combat? What's your mission? D-Day.


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[Assistant] Back to the book. I was mentally prepared and felt that I had done everything necessary to prepare myself for this precise moment.


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[Assistant] And you never know if you will measure up as a leader until the minute arrives when you face the enemy for the first time. Baptism by fire is a soldier's sacrament. There is always doubt.


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[Assistant] Hopefully, in combat, you perform as you train.


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[Assistant] Again, get some sense of another good movie, Saving Private Ryan, the opening scene of that is the same thing and


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[Assistant] That's, that's one of the most intense parts of a movie ever is the D-Day when they're hitting the beaches. It's crazy to watch. But watch it, cause it'll give you a feeling for what Dick Winters is talking about. Just imagine all these preparations that you do. You're getting ready. And guess what? Here it comes. Little mission called D-Day.


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[Assistant] Now, they all, they, that was their initial operation, was during D-Day, but then they fought all over the place, and again, we cover this in, in Beyond Banda Brothers.


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[Assistant] But one of the most intense parts of their campaign was at Bastone.


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[Assistant] So even though D-Day was hard, things didn't get easier once D-Day was complete. As much as I'm saying, oh yeaah, D-Day was crazy, guess what? It wasn't even the hardest part for them.


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[Assistant] Things got worse. Back to the book. Most of the soldiers in Easy Company


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[Assistant] Also felt that Bastogne was the most challenging month of the war.


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[Assistant] Staff Sergeant Bill Guarnere later claimed that he had been scared before.


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[Assistant] But he was absolutely petrified at Bastogne.


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[Assistant] From my perspective, Bastogne was the most miserable place I've been in my life. I was wet through and through.


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[Assistant] And naturally, being a paratrooper, I didn't have a change of clothes, no blanket, nothing. And it was a cold son of a gun.


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[Assistant] Easy Company was never the same after Bastogne. We lost so many, because we lost so many veterans who had fought in Normandy and Holland. Joe Toy, Bill Guarnere,


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[Assistant] Buck Compton, Don Hubler, and many others.


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[Assistant] So this is, this is where I started thinking, okay, leadership lesson learned right here. I operated the battalion command post that was situated approximately 75 yards from the main line of resistance. You might not think 75 yards is consequential.


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[Assistant] But it gave me the opportunity to think things through and divorce myself from the chaos surrounding the front line and to make calm, rational decisions under pressure.


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[Assistant] That is the toughest challenge for any leader. So obviously we're talking about detachment here. And I've talked about the fact that


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[Assistant] In order to detach, you can move off the line like six inches, I'm not kidding, in a smaller group, you know, in a single platoon, he's talking about a battalion, so they got hundreds of guys, so 75 yards is more appropriate, but if you're running a smaller unit, like one company or maybe a platoon, you got 30-40 guys,


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[Assistant] If you move back off that firing line, six inches, a foot, maybe, you know, maybe three feet or six feet, you just step back and you get yourself out of that firefight where you can look around, that's what you're gonna be able to do. You're gonna be able to


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[Assistant] Detach yourself from the chaos and the mayhem and make calm rational decisions under pressure.


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[Assistant] Why don't they, why don't they get online and peel left? Whatever the call was. So the story is, there was a guy that actually, he was the Delta platoon commander in TU Bruiser. He took over my position, he took over as the TU Bruiser commander. And then I was running the training. So once I was running the training, you know, now I was overall,


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[Assistant] Making things happen. And he was going through the training. A different block of training and he broke his neck.


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[Assistant] Thank God he didn't hurt his spinal cord, but he broke vertebrae in his neck. So he had to wear one of those big crazy neck braces. And he couldn't...


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[Assistant] Actually do the physical training. Wasn't allowed to bear any weight for a certain amount of time. But, you know, luckily he was able to keep his job because he was very experienced. And so we were going through the land warfare portion of training.


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[Assistant] And I said, hey man, you know, I know you can't participate, but come out with me, you know, come out and check it out and you know, you can see your guys and you can watch how they perform and you can.


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[Assistant] So, we, we get out there and, and you know, you've heard the stories about the training that I ran, it was really hard and evil and crazy and psychotic. And we're doing that, you know, we got, we, in that case we had these really high speed laser, laser tag system and you got guys pinned down, you got explosions going off, you got just total mayhem going on and his guys kind of froze up.


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[Assistant] And they're all pinned down in this little sort of ravine valley type thing. And I got guys, I got my guys, my opposing force, so the seals that are pretending to be bad guys, pretending to be moose, they're all up in the mountains shooting down on them and killing everyone. And his guys, his leadership is just kind of frozen. And they're sitting there not doing anything. And, you know, he says to me, hey, can I help them?


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[Assistant] And I s- I kinda thought about it for a minute, I go, yeah, go ahead. I go give him, you know, tell him what to do, give him a prompt. And he- and he just, you know, goes down to the leader, one of the leaders and says, hey, get online and peel left.


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[Assistant] And so, the guy looks at him and- What does get online mean? Just-


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[Assistant] It's an organizational movement where all your troops are pointed in all different directions. Gotcha. Boom, you take contact, right.


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[Assistant] Online and that means everyone's gonna basically face in that direction You'll get a couple guys that are doing risk here a couple guys that are doing flank security But everyone is now oriented in the same direction And then the next call that comes is peel left boom and they're all gonna start moving You know in a direction that's gonna get them out of this immediate threat


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[Assistant] So, the guy looks at him, and he just yells out, get online, PO left. And then everyone repeats that command. And then everyone does it. And within a minute, they're home free. It literally took like one minute once they made the decision.


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[Assistant] They get out of there and he looks at me and he goes, he goes, man, it's so easy.


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[Assistant] When you're way up here. Now way up here, to put it in perspective, was...


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[Assistant] Or feet behind these guys. That's all it was. It wasn't like we were up on some mountaintop with some incredible view. No, we were, we were there. We were standing next to the guys and we were a little bit elevated because they were laying down and we were standing up. But it's, it was not inconceivable that you wouldn't have the same perspective if you just stepped back and maybe, you know, shuffled over a little bit. And he says, it's so easy when, when you're up here.


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[Assistant] And I said, bro, you remember when we went through training? And he says, yea, and I said, it was always like this for me. And it was. I was, I would always just pull myself back just enough to be able to see what the solution is.


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[Assistant] So, yes, this detachment that he's talking about, and again, in a battalion situation where you're going 75 yards, and in a business situation, you know, I actually see people do this, you're in a meeting.


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[Assistant] And there's everyone around the, around the table and there's some problem that can't be solved. Literally step up and get, step away from the table. And just step back, get away from the group. Because they're all mobbed up and group think everyone's going down the same trail. They're thinking about the same stuff and there's no new ideas because they're all right there in this vortex. Step away from the table.


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[Assistant] It's the same thing like step, step away from your computer. You know, you get to some point where you're just, you don't know where to go with some, you're looking for some kind of a solution to a problem. Step back, step back, see more.


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[Assistant] You know? Yeah. And give you kind of an overall view of it. Move you towards the solution that you know can be found.


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[Assistant] Alright, and this part's been covered before on multiple occasions. You know what we're gonna do? Cover it again.


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[Assistant] Little piece about discipline. I did have a routine. A routine that was instilled into me by Colonel Sink.


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[Assistant] At COA, Colonel Sink insisted that officers always shave in the morning, regardless of the situation.


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[Assistant] He would say, you shave every morning for the troops, and if you want to shave every evening for the women, that's up to you.


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[Assistant] I followed his orders because I realized that I had to set the proper example for the men.


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[Assistant] I needed to get their attention and let them all know that I intended to be around for a while and that the situation was not as bad as they might think.


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[Assistant] I remember before 2nd Battalion attacked Foy, I had awakened early and shaved before I ate breakfast. I later discovered that I had cut my face in multiple places. And Colonel Sink came up to check on the battalion's readiness before the attack commenced. He took one look at me and smiled.


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[Assistant] I realized that he was laughing at me for shaving on that bitterly cold morning.


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[Assistant] In hindsight, shaving at zero dark thirty and freezing temperatures was pretty ridiculous.


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[Assistant] So, you know, we talk about this all the time, gotta shave, gotta maintain.


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[Assistant] Unmitigated daily discipline and all things. But what's cool about what I, the reason I wanted to go over this again is because look at what he's doing psychologically to the troops. He's saying, I know I had to set an example, I needed to get their attention.


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[Assistant] And you need to maintain the same discipline. So that leading by example.


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[Assistant] Clearly is a big deal right there and maintaining that routine. Maintaining that discipline.


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[Assistant] Now speaking of discipline, back to the book, regardless of how disciplined an outfit is, too much time on your hands, too little activity, and too much alcohol, make a volatile...


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[Assistant] Because this is, this is actually talking about when they were done fighting, and now everyone was kind of idle, he has some idle people on their hands, but it related to discipline, so I wanted to lock it in a little bit. Back to the book, the battalion was no longer a combat unit, but a garrison outfit. It was more important to keep the troops gainfully employed to prevent boredom and monotony.


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[Assistant] That would lead to a breakdown in discipline and when that occurs soldiers get careless. Consequently, the first thing we organized were calisthenics and athletic programs.


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[Assistant] You know, I always joke about, you know, when people say they have some kind of problem, and I'm like, oh, new burpees. Right.


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[Assistant] Hey, you know what a good solution to all problems are? Calisthenics. Just start doing calisthenics. I like that. I like that attitude. I vividly recall, this is another reason why I put this in, I vividly recall watching the men stripped to their waist or only wearing their shorts as they played baseball.


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[Assistant] The sight of all those scars made me conscious of the fact that only a handful of men in the battalion had been lucky enough to make it through all four campaigns without at least one scar.


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[Assistant] Some men had two, three, or even four scars on their chest, back, arms, or legs. Keep in mind that this was after the war, so I was looking only at men who were not seriously wounded.


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[Assistant] Next we set up rifle ranges and sharpened our marksmanship.


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[Assistant] Close order drill and troop reviews were once again back on the training schedule. I also established a schedule where each of our four platoons could rotate every 72 hours to a ski lodge in the Alps for rest and relaxation. The purpose of using this retreat was to let the men get away from the routine of a military schedule. So first of all, when I got to SEAL Team 1


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[Assistant] And actually, it wasn't when I first got there, but there was a Master Chief at SEAL Team 1 that had showed up.


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[Assistant] Until team one, you know, you had 150 guys, uh, roughly on the team at that time. And they had had 34 killed in action in Vietnam.


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[Assistant] At SEAL Team 1, and wounded was, I don't know how many wounded, but it was a lot, but this, this guy who was a Master Chief when I met him, and he was telling me that when he, you know, at the SEAL Team, you, you know, you PT in the morning, just like a sports team, you get, you get to work, and you work out, and here's the, he's a new guy, right? And he's, they, they PT, and then they go in the shower,


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[Assistant] You know, to, to, to wash off and the same thing. He's like looking at every single guy, scarred up, wounded, you know, slashes on their chest, bullet holes in them.


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[Assistant] But, beyond that, what he's talking about here clearly is, if you, and I'll tell you this, especially with


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[Assistant] 18 year old, 19 year old, 20 year old males that have joined the military. If you don't find something for them to do productive, they're gonna find something to do that's not gonna be productive. It'll be fun for them. It'll be fun for them. They're gonna have a good time, but it's not.


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[Assistant] There's a chance that they could be doing something better than what you're letting them do. Now, of course, he talks about the fact that he's still giving them time to go out to the ski lodge and break away from it a little bit.


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[Assistant] But you just gotta be careful on how you do that. You gotta be careful on how you do that. It's...


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[Assistant] It can backfire if you're not careful. And the first time I was ever kind of detached from a SEAL platoon on a, it was when I went to training, the training department at SEAL Team 1, what we used to call Training Cell. Which sounds legit. And it was legit. So at Training Cell,


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[Assistant] The first trip I went on with a platoon, cause I was always in the platoon. So the first trip I went on with the platoon.


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[Assistant] And I was outside of the platoon, and I was, you, you could say I was an instructor, even though we weren't running around calling ourselves instructor, instructors. We would call ourselves actually the cadre. I don't know why. It was just like, oh yea, cadre.


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[Assistant] It is an official term. Yea, cadre. The training cadre. So when we were at training cell, cause the instructors are kind of considered the buds instructors, the guys that are at the basic training and we didn't really want to be buds instructors, we were the cadres.


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[Assistant] No, no, no. We were the, yeah. Oh, training cadre. Yeah. Oh, hey, I need to talk to the guys in the cadre over here. Yeah, that's what we called ourselves.


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[Assistant] I didn't make that. No, no, no. They called, you know, for years. And actually, I think Roger Hayden talked about it when he was on the podcast. He was talking about when he was Cadre. So it's been around forever.


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[Assistant] Not even know what I was talking about. Oh, so I was I was in the cadre for the first time and we went on a trip and went to a trip Where they have good times to be had where we were it was it was a place where there's some good training but there's also good times and You know, I picked this up from Harley Flanagan this term which I hadn't really heard. Whoa


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[Assistant] Wilding. Did you hear him say that? He's like, oh, we were just wilding. Which I think is a better term than the term that we discussed, which was partying, right? Oh, there's a good, yeah, we were partying. I like wilding better, because that entails all kinds of other things coming down. A little bit more wild, yeah. A little bit more wild.


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[Assistant] I've never really heard it before. But when Harley said it, clearly you know what it is.


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[Assistant] So, we went to this place with a seal platoon where there was good training and good wilding to be had. And I remember the first time that these guys, you know, we get there, we work a little bit, and then they're gonna go out in, into the town.


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[Assistant] And I remember thinking to myself, they'd been in the field for a few days, and they were all...


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[Assistant] And I was thinking to myself, how is this even gonna work? Like there's no, there's no possibility of this going well. And it did, you know, everyone was fine, but you just see all these cars, they're ready to, you know, they're ready to explode. And you're gonna, they've been in the field.


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[Assistant] They've dehydrated. They've been in the field for four days or five days. They're all dehydrated and they completed their operation. They feel good about it. Now you're going to let them out in town.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, you gotta be careful in those scenarios. You gotta put something. Yeaah, we, we would.


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[Assistant] So then everyone knows they can make it wild to a point, but they can't, they gotta put some kind of a governor, some kind of a governor on this scenario. Here's a cool piece.


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[Assistant] Where, Dick Winters, you know, he talks about, and I've talked about this before, but,


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[Assistant] Just, just a piece about his view of what America was doing at the time. Back to the book, the United States went to war not to conquer territory or to subject their fellow man, but merely to liberate a conquered people from the chains of tyranny.


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[Assistant] There is a certain nobility in all that. Today we are bombarded in the news media about how everyone hates America and how this country is deployed around the world.


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[Assistant] World War II wasn't like that, and I am proud to be a part of it.


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[Assistant] So again, I've said this a bunch of times, you know, we went there and lost hundreds of thousands of people in Europe and in, and in the Pacific theater. And we took nothing.


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[Assistant] Some thoughts on leadership from Dick Winters. Leadership, leadership's defining quality is honesty.


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[Assistant] To honesty, add fairness and consistency.


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[Assistant] I was able to develop a sixth sense during the war that allowed me to size up a situation rapidly.


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[Assistant] I could look at terrain and be able to see opportunities instead of challenges.


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[Assistant] By leading from the front, I believe I achieved a high degree of success. So I thought this was a very, very interesting combination. Honesty, fairness, and consistency.


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[Assistant] You don't hear those a lot about being a great leader. I mean, I always talk about the number one attribute of a leader is humility.


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[Assistant] I definitely believe that humility is important, but honesty, that's clearly a thought.


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[Assistant] And a concept of leadership that I think that misses a lot of people.


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[Assistant] I think, and we've talked about plenty of cases on the podcast here where we say, oh, what if this is going on and I say, look, you want to be honest with them.


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[Assistant] You know, so I've definitely said that before, but I'm gonna start saying it more because I'm learning a little something from Dick Winters today.


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[Assistant] But you know, I remember we had a case where someone was saying, hey, I'm gonna leave this job, I'm gonna take another job, and what should I do? Should I tell them? Should I not? And we kinda went around and I was like, look, just tell them the truth. Just say, look, hey, this is what's going on, I'm gonna be, I've got a better opportunity, I'm gonna take it, cause, and in the long run,


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[Assistant] You're, in the long run, it's gonna be, you're gonna be better off if you're honest with people. And so, uh, obviously, to think about this quality, it's something I've thought about, but not as clearly as this, as, as Dick Winters saying, that's the defining quality.


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[Assistant] That's obviously important. Something that I will talk about more now. Definitely believed it, but we'll talk about it more.


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[Assistant] If you've seen the movie Band of Brothers or the series Band of Brothers, they, they do a good job of showing the beginning when they form up and there's a guy in, there's a guy in leadership position called Captain Sobel.


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[Assistant] And they do a good job of portraying why he wasn't a good leader in the series.


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[Assistant] But here's what Dick Winters had to say about it. Back to the book. Captain Sobel commanded through fear and intimidation.


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[Assistant] That is not how a leader should conduct himself.


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[Assistant] Sobel was not just unfair, he was mean-spirited. His attitude created a special bond with an easy company that allowed the men to identify with their platoons more so with and with the company. Which is more normal in most unit- military units.


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[Assistant] Second lieutenants, by their nature, are a clan-ish group. So, you got a company commander, and then he's got three, usually three platoons underneath him, and each one of those is run by a second lieutenant. So these second lieutenants are the platoon commanders.


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[Assistant] Second lieutenants by their nature are a clannish group. Some are more serious than others, but for the most part, they wander around a military post, as General Heisenauer once said,


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[Assistant] In a rather aimless search for excitement.


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[Assistant] Easy Company's platoon leaders, of which I was one, did our best to take care of our soldiers to soften Sobell's dictatorial behavior.


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[Assistant] I lost all respect for our commander the day he announced to the officers in easy company we will lead through fear not by example. That's just the opposite of any leadership principle that I could ever conceive is to lead through fear instead of example.


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[Assistant] Have you heard that before? For sure, for sure. That's, if you want to put the fear onto that, do what I say, not what I do, or, or else, or else, yeaah, I'm gonna get out the belt.


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[Assistant] Which made him kinda more mad. So then he had to brief you on what a switch was? Yea, he didn't like that. This is the thing I'm gonna beat you with.


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[Assistant] Very similar. Back to the book. It made such an impression on me that I recorded his words in my diary.


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[Assistant] Under ordinary circumstances, a junior company officer attempts to reflect his company commander's leadership style. But Easy Company's lieutenants found that they simply could not emulate the image of Sobel and still live with themselves.


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[Assistant] Sabel had no friends within the company and few within the regiment.


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[Assistant] At the end of each day, he went one way, and we lieutenants went another, hoping not to run into him at the officers club.


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[Assistant] He lacked confidence in his own ability as an infantry commander. He was, he was completely honest, but he couldn't read a map to save his neck.


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[Assistant] His knowledge of tactics and fire maneuver was extremely poor. So horrible situation. And you know, this is, this is one of those things where he's talking about how everyone, no one wanted to hang around with him, right? And I've heard leaders say,


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[Assistant] A good leader's not gonna be like, not gonna be loved by everyone. And that's, there's some truth to that, right? Of course not, not everyone's gonna love you. But there's also a difference when no one likes you. That you're not doing a good job. You're not doing a good job at all. And, you know, I hung out with all my guys all the time.


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[Assistant] Classic, right? I'm not here to make friends, no. But I actually, you know, there's, I heard, I've heard officers say that in the military, SEAL officers, I've heard say, look, you, you,


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[Assistant] And they'll say like, it's not a popularity contest. Which it's not. Clearly you're gonna make decisions that are gonna be hard for people to swallow.


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[Assistant] But to have people running away from you because they don't like you as a human being, that's not a good position to be in. You're not doing a good job as a leader. You need to reassess what you're, what you're, what you're doing and how you're doing it.


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[Assistant] And this is kind of reflective of what Dick Winter's attitude was. Back to the book. Easy Company didn't belong to me. It belonged to the soldiers. I was privileged to be a small part of its history. Officers, and commanders in particular, are merely caretakers.


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[Assistant] That the paratroopers respected me is more than enough reward. So there's just totally, totally different attitude, right?


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[Assistant] And there's something weird that happens with the military. You'll hear a guy, it's a contradictory state. There's a dichotomy. You'll hear a guy say, my soldiers.


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[Assistant] Or my marines. And there's two ways that that can be taken. One of them is very positive.


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[Assistant] My soldiers. I am gonna take care of my soldiers. Hey, don't come down here and talk to my soldiers like that.


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[Assistant] Or, hey, you know, I need to make sure my soldiers have the gear that they need. I need to make sure my marines have, and that's a, they mean that in the best possible way. There's another side to that, which is completely negative, which is, these are my marines. Meaning you own them. Meaning I'll do what I want with them.


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[Assistant] And so, I've seen guys on both sides of that edge, and you can hear a good, you can hear a good leader say, my marines, you can hear a good leader say, my soldiers, you can hear a good leader say, my SEALs, and think of it in a positive way, and you can have a crappy leader say, my soldiers, my marines, my SEALs, and you just think, dude, no, stop.


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[Assistant] And so for, and especially when you get Dick Winters who is, you know, universally respected in his, in the military and definitely in his battalion and in his company, and he's a guy that's saying, look, it was theirs. That just tells you that's where your leadership perspective should come from.


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[Assistant] Well they do do it definitely in the military with inanimate objects, not just soldiers and marines and sailors. They do it with inanimate objects. And you learn that in boot camp where they'll, you know, they say,


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[Assistant] Right, yes. And he gives you this feeling of like, dang, this guy's really into this parade deck. Meaning, you know, where you do marching. And they say, get off my parade deck.


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[Assistant] And it instills that kind of personal pride about something. So again, even that one can go both ways. I guess it really, you really have to understand what your intent is behind what you're saying. And you have to be careful. I, I always, I feel subconscious about that. And I'll give you an example.


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[Assistant] But it's my gym where I train, right? But sometimes someone will say something and I'll feel like, oh where do you train?


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[Assistant] I got all victory MMA and fitness, you know, yeah. Oh Dean Lister Jeff Glover. Yeah, that's where I train and oh wait Do you own that place? Yeah. Yeah, I'm one of the owners, you know blah blah, but yeah, you don't like that my


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[Assistant] Sometimes that's the most positive thing you could possibly say. These are my seals. Hey, don't come down here and think you're gonna put my seals out in the field in a bad situation. It's not happening. You know what I mean? You're protective. They're your brothers, you know.


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[Assistant] As opposed to, look, I'll deploy my seals wherever I see fit. Like, oh, put a red flag on that dude's face.


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[Assistant] Back to the book. I think of Easy Company every day. We sustained 150% casualties between the night that we jumped into Normandy and VE Day.


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[Assistant] 150% cash please. For those of you that are wondering how you do that, how you do that is you have people getting wounded multiple times and coming back to the front and when your replacements show up, they get wounded too. So you, you know, you've got whatever, 150 people in your, in your company.


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[Assistant] And over the course of time, people get wounded and leave and new people come in to take their place and they get wounded as well and that's how you get up over 100% of your people being wounded.


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[Assistant] The result of sharing all the stress throughout training and combat has created a bond between the men of EZ Company that will last forever.


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[Assistant] In a sense, I don't think I ever left company E.


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[Assistant] I may never again see the type of men in this outfit, but to me, EZ Company will always be my company.


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[Assistant] In the sense that I will always remain a part of it.


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[Assistant] To this day, they remain my second family.


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[Assistant] I still look at these men with great respect. Respect I can't describe in words.


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[Assistant] So there, he makes it, same thing, like he feels uncomfortable saying, mine. He has to put a quantifier on it, and explain, hey not in that sense, but I'll always be a part of it, that's why it's mine.


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[Assistant] More about leadership. Back to the book. Leadership is difficult to define.


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[Assistant] They talk about leadership at West Point every day. Leadership starts with honesty, dedication, and having a man who is dependable and fair.


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[Assistant] If you never deviate from the standards that you established, men have faith in you, and you'll be out front to set the example.


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[Assistant] Sergeant Talbert once told me, sir, I'd follow you into hell. I'd take a great deal of pride in his remark. So again, we're getting this leadership starts with honesty, dedication, dependable and fair.


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[Assistant] You know, does that person really deserve to lose their pay for 90 days or go on bread and water or whatever kind of punishment you're gonna bestow on someone?


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[Assistant] Is that fair? And people know if things are fair or not.


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[Assistant] But it's also a touchy subject. You tell me, I personally think, let's say I've been given some slack and people have been showing up a little bit late, showing up a little bit late, and I'm kinda like, hey man, you know, we need to be a little more on time, and then finally, on a Thursday, guy shows up late for the meeting, and I say, hey, you're suspended, you're grounded, you're


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[Assistant] That doesn't make sense, right? It doesn't make sense. And people say, oh, you know, I'm not, it's not being consistent because people have been being like, however, if I was to say, Hey guys, check it out. Bill just walking in right now and I've been letting it slide. And I'll tell you what, this is where it's getting us. We've been later and later we start slacking here.


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[Assistant] We're gonna start slacking in other places. We can't afford to slack right now, our mission's too important. From now on, if we're late, if you're late showing up to this meeting, or you're late to an evolution that we're about to do, I'm gonna drop the hammer.


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[Assistant] Explanation as to why that's fair in my opinion just going off the handle and Smashing someone because you want to make an example of them that doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, I don't like it. I don't do it


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[Assistant] Can it be useful? Yes. If someone, if there's a clearly delineated expectation that's been set and it gets violated for whatever reason and you are gonna crush and destroy to set an example and actually we get to a point where he talks about that in here and there is an example set.


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[Assistant] And that has to send a message to everyone? Yeah, that can do that. I've done that with my family. Hey, here's the line if you cross it.


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[Assistant] You will remember for a very long time that you made a bad decision. Yeah. And my other kids, when I've done that to some of them, you know, one of my kids that has made a bad decision, they all remember, all of them, they don't want to make that mistake.


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[Assistant] And therefore you guys have been, you know, I've been letting you slack. You guys have been showing up late. That's a problem. We can't have that problem anymore. So you just don't start pointing the fingers at everyone. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Speaking of leadership, back to the book, I believe that some men and women are born with the inherent qualities that make them good leaders.


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[Assistant] And hard work. So there's a little contradictory in there. Because he says, look, some people are born with qualities that make them a good leader, but you can learn to be a good leader. I totally agree with that, I've always said that.


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[Assistant] Some people have the qualities that make them a good leader naturally, or they love some of them, right? Some of them will be really articulate, some of them will be very charismatic, very dynamic, loud.


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[Assistant] Right? Studying leadership, I, you know, today, I already learned something.


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[Assistant] Need to increase my focus on honesty as a leadership quality.


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[Assistant] But yeaah, I'm always studying, always learning, and we all need to be. That's how we're gonna become a better leader.


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[Assistant] Was just, I was watching and thinking about why these leaders were doing what they're doing. What is making them do that? Good leader? Why is, why does that, why do we respond to that well? Bad leader? Why don't we respond well to what he's doing? I wasn't sitting there consciously thinking about it.


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[Assistant] Actually, you know, in some cases I was actually consciously thinking about it. You know, consciously thinking, wait, why does no one wanna follow this guy? How is he acting that we all wanna walk away from him?


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[Assistant] Why is that happening? And then when you get a good leader, I'd say, why is this guy such a good leader? So yea, I guess I did consciously do that. And study, not from books, but from life. To try and learn.


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[Assistant] And that's how you can become better. Here's a little note too. And, and you wanna talk about holding the line. If you aren't in good physical shape, forget it. You are not going to be a good leader.


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[Assistant] Well, certainly in a military environment, that is true. Are there some civilian leaders that aren't in the best shape? Yeah, there are.


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[Assistant] Would those leaders be doing a better job if they were in better physical condition? Yes they would. It's like that, that thing that starting strength, uh, Coach Ripito says, I, I post, I've never talked about it, but I posted, you know, he's talking about how physical strength is good. And,


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[Assistant] People that say that physical strength aren't good. He says, you know, you I forget the exact quote, but he's basically saying


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[Assistant] I know, physical strength is good. And if you take someone that says the physical strength isn't good,


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[Assistant] And then you add 120 pounds to their squat, and then ask them how they're doing now.


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[Assistant] Why is that? There's a million reasons why. Confidence, overcoming the challenge, you're actually physically stronger, your mental clarity goes up, so yeaah. Of course. Be in good shape.


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[Assistant] Be in good shape. If you're worried about your health, you're not gonna be able to focus on being a good leader. And in the military, or in any job where that demands


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[Assistant] Physical exertion, you have to be in good shape, otherwise people are looking at you and you're falling apart. You can't be falling apart on a patrol. You can't be falling apart during a, during a combat swimming operation where you, you know, you need to swim. You need to swim far. You're gonna swim for four straight hours on a combat swimmer operation. If you're weak and you can't do that, you think your men are gonna respect you?


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[Assistant] You know, there are coaches that have never participated in the sport that they coach and they're good. I mean, you can look at Greg Jackson, who's a great mixed martial arts coach. He's never been a mixed martial arts fighter. Yea, but he knows how to fight though, you know. Yea, certainly does. Yes.


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[Assistant] But he hasn't actually fought, so how can he be a good coach? What about Duke Rufus? He's never fought MMA, has he?


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[Assistant] Yeah, we know he's a champion kickboxer, but how can he be such a great coach at MMA?


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, and plus because we're talking about coaches. I mean you coaches are are not participating anymore That's why they're coaching. Yeah, so I guess those are really stupid examples. Yeah


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[Assistant] Because, because, you know, custom auto with Mike Tyson, obviously he wasn't getting in the ring with Mike Tyson, right? Yea. But he's a great coach, a fantastic coach, one of the most, you know, one of the most respected coaches of all time.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and we're looking, we're looking at leaders in the field. Like leaders in the job that are leading a group to accomplish a mission. Right? That's different than a coach. A coach is outside the group.


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. So we're talking about someone that's in the group. Yeah, you gotta be, you gotta be able to maintain.


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[Assistant] You gotta be able to stay with your team, physically. And, you know, it's not like you need to be the best. I was never the fastest guy. I was never the strongest guy. But I wasn't gonna be falling behind on a patrol because I wasn't in good shape. That wasn't gonna happen. And the only way that doesn't happen is you need to stay in shape. How do you stay in shape?


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[Assistant] Now speaking of, now this is good that you were talking about this, here is a heavy punishment handed out.


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[Assistant] Talking about Colonel Bob Sink, who was the leader of the, uh, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment. Here we go. Back to the book. Colonel Bob Sink certainly was one of the best.


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[Assistant] He set high standards and never compromised on those standards. After the paratroopers of the 506th Paratroo- Paratroo- Parachute Infantry Regiment earned their jump wings, Sink granted a 10-day furlough, but cautioned the men to conduct themselves appropriately.


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[Assistant] Several paratroopers reported late for duty after their furloughs expired.


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[Assistant] Saint called another regimental formation and publicly humiliated one paratrooper from each of his nine companies.


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[Assistant] They called out the name of the last soldier to report to duty and that paratrooper was marched in front of the formation under escort. An officer stripped him of his unit patch, forced him to unblouse his boots, and then escorted him from the field.


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[Assistant] That's, that's a clear message being sent, right? Clear message being sent. And...


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[Assistant] And it's gonna be a real clear example. And that's gonna leave an impression on a thousand guys. You know, close to a thousand guys.


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[Assistant] Booted from the regiment. I'd say their thoughts were that it was unfair.


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[Assistant] I would say for the guys that remained in the regiment, that realized that they had to maintain the standard, that realized there was gonna be no slack, and that worked hard to make sure they maintained that, and therefore were more prepared for combat, I'd say it was real fair.


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[Assistant] Behind the scenes. We would have to get some details if we were really gonna cast judgment on that. Like, you know, maybe some of those guys were kind of slackers anyways. And the company commander was like, hey dude, yeah we don't want this guy.


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[Assistant] Missed their furlough. Didn't take all of them. Just the last one to report. We don't, we don't take that around here.


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[Assistant] It's an interesting dynamic, you know, it's an interesting dynamic, but it's definitely showing I I don't know that I necessarily would have done that I Can I my some my my assessment? I probably wouldn't have


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[Assistant] Not, not one guy from each company. Maybe like, the two guys that grossly violated it.


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[Assistant] Another leader that he talks about here is McAuliffe. Back to the book. What we liked about McAuliffe was that he allowed us to do our jobs. You didn't have a lot of interference from McAuliffe.


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[Assistant] But with Taylor in command, this is another person, he told you what you needed to do here. He had to run everything.


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[Assistant] You can't do a good job if you don't have the chance to use your imagination and creativity.


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[Assistant] In my mind, Taylor was more interested in impressing his superiors than watching out for his men.


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[Assistant] Taylor was such a contrast with British General Montgomery.


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[Assistant] So he talks a little bit. Oh, okay, so first of all, clearly, decentralized command. Don't give people the clear, you know, specifics on how to do every little thing. Let them get creative. Let them come up with a solution. Perfect. Boom. We hear that over and over again. Why do we hear it over and over again? Cause it's right.


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[Assistant] Cause it's right. That's why we hear it over and over again. Now he talks about the famous British general Montgomery Monty who always gets portrayed


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[Assistant] And here's what he says, here's what Dick Winter said about Montgomery. Back to the book, Montgomery was the real deal.


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[Assistant] I saw him on a number of occasions and he always impressed me as a commander who lived the lifestyle that was beyond reproach for his staff to follow. He set the example.


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[Assistant] He addressed every division that was scheduled to participate in the invasion. He called us together and had every soldier take off his helmet so he could see the troops better.


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[Assistant] Yeah, props to Monty, right? Going around and talking to every, every single division.


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[Assistant] And then say, hey boys, take off your helmets. I want to see your faces before you roll. Mmm, it's legit. Props.


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[Assistant] Even this part right here, back to the book. Self-discipline keeps you doing your job.


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[Assistant] Without it, you lose your pride and forget the importance of self-respect in the eyes of your fellow men.


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[Assistant] Pride keeps you going on. This is what I feared I would lose. The loss of the will to measure up to my men. So, once you say, you know what, I don't care what my guys think anymore.


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[Assistant] You've lost it, right? If I say, look, I don't care what the guys think of me. Think of what a driving force it is to have your team looking at you and saying, I'm gonna make sure these guys respect me and I'm proud of what I'm doing.


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[Assistant] Compared to, I don't care what anyone thinks of me anymore. You can see, well you can see what, when this happens to people, not just in the military or business organization, but in life.


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[Assistant] At a certain point, you see a bum in the street. At a certain point, that bum said, you know what, I don't care what anyone thinks of me anymore. I don't care what my family thinks of me. I don't care what the society thinks of me.


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[Assistant] Of course, I'm not talking about every single bum, but a lot of them. Hey, I don't care.


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[Assistant] You can imagine, that's just like a life thing, right? Yeah. If you go through life and you say I don't care what anyone else thinks, which is a contradiction for me. Right? Cause I'll say all the time, like I don't care what people think.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and I've said this before, like about the SEAL teams and me being in the SEAL teams, and I had this, completely had this attitude. I don't care. Like for instance,


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[Assistant] I don't care what happens. Like I don't care if I get fired. I'm gonna do the right thing. I don't care. I don't care what they think of me. And at the same thing, at the same time, there's nothing that was more important to me than my reputation in the ZIL teams.


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[Assistant] If something was going to give you a bad reputation, like what we just talked about, if you fall out of a patrol as a leader, or as anyone, like if you fall out of a patrol,


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[Assistant] You're gonna, no one's ever gonna forget it in the SEAL teams. If you're too weak to do something, you're gonna be remembered by that forever. And that, I didn't want that, ever. To be like, oh, Jaco did this, Jaco couldn't finish patrol, Jaco was a bad leader, Jaco. I didn't want that to be the reality. Yeah.


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[Assistant] I wasn't saying, oh, I'm concerned what my boss thinks of me, so I'm gonna act a certain way. No, I was trying to do the right thing. Right. For the team.


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[Assistant] I don't care if I get promoted, but I care more than anything about my job. You know what I mean? And that definitely was my attitude.


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[Assistant] That definitely was my attitude my whole time I was in the military. Look, I'm gonna do the best job I can. I'm not doing it to get promoted. I'm not doing it for that reason.


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[Assistant] I have the respect of my peers and my bros and the teams. Right? Reputation, you hear that all the time. Reputation is everything in the SEAL teams because it's a small group of people. You know, you have an accidental discharge with your weapon, everybody knows about it and they're gonna know about it forever. If you remain on the teams for whatever reason, after you have an accidental discharge,


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[Assistant] His nickname was Bush. It had nothing to do with his last name, but anyways, long story short, he was a new guy. And I, I knew him, this is 15 years later, I found this out. So he'd been in the SEAL teams for 15 years, I'd known him as Bush the whole time. And, he was parachuting.


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[Assistant] Brand new guy showed up to the team, they're like, hey, you're going jumping today. Okay, gets in the aircraft, jumps, and he lands.


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[Assistant] Through no fo- you can't even steer these brown parachutes, you can't barely steer them. He lands in a bush with like thorns in it, right? And I guess it looks pretty funny. And from there on, yea, what's his name? Bush.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so you're gonna get a name like that, but that's a that's a really easy example because everybody knows hey That's just funny. It was more of a funny thing if you something funny happens to you. You might get that nickname, too like if you get Pepper sprayed by the cops you might have the nickname pepper


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[Assistant] Is just to, you're looking at your, your friends, your peers in this leadership position.


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[Assistant] It's your men. You're looking at your men saying, hey, I don't want to let these guys down. I don't want them to view me as weak.


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[Assistant] Is by showing weakness and being like, I say this all the time, hey, I don't know how to do this. Hey, can you give me a suggestion? I'm not talking about that type of thing. I'm talking about


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[Assistant] Weak, physical weakness. Physical and mental toughness or physical and mental weakness, right? That's a lot different than hey, I don't understand how to do something or it's a lot different than humility. You can, you can wanna show, you can wanna maintain strength.


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[Assistant] But still have humility for sure. Yeaah. I know all kinds, I mean I know


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[Assistant] Tons of guys that are completely humble, but they're the toughest bastard you'd ever want to know mentally and physically So I'm not talking about I need to be strong Stronger than everyone. No, I'm not talking about that at all I'm talking about you physical and mental toughness you have to have and if you don't have them as a leader Could be problematic. Yeah, watch out for it


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[Assistant] Back to the book, the big thing I derived from combat was the necessity of maintaining discipline. Discipline in our troops was discipline in our troops and getting the job done in combat. So clearly, discipline's a big part of what we're talking about here.


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[Assistant] You know, I don't talk about this a lot. I think it's inherent in a lot of things that I say.


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[Assistant] But it's not something that I don't use this word a lot. And again, I think I need to use it more. Back to the book. Character.


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[Assistant] Revolves around doing the right thing all the time. Character implies daily choices of right over wrong.


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[Assistant] The cadet prayer at West Point says cadets strive to choose the harder right.


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[Assistant] Instead of the easier wrong and never to be content with a half-truth. When the whole can be one.


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[Assistant] That gets to the heart of character. I would add that it is easier to do the right thing when everyone is looking.


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[Assistant] It is more difficult to do what you should do when you are alone.


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[Assistant] I like to think of character as every other virtue at the breaking point.


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[Assistant] So character doing the right thing, doing the right thing at all times, doing the right thing when you're alone.


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[Assistant] Back to the book. War doesn't alter character.


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[Assistant] War merely brings out the best that an individual has to offer.


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[Assistant] If anything, war exposes the best and worst of those who are called to fight.


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[Assistant] I know of no man who lacked character and peace and then discovered character in combat.


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[Assistant] So I've said this same type of thing before, especially, I mean war, eh, you know what we'd see on deployment is,


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[Assistant] As pressure starts to build on people, you start seeing people go in two directions. Then that's what we'd see. Their character would start to reveal itself. They'd rise to the occasion.


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[Assistant] Or they would not. And they'd go in the other direction and become...


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[Assistant] Maybe have a hard time dealing with war. A lot of times there's some pre-existing issues that the war


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[Assistant] In flames, right? And then if you take someone that has, that doesn't have pre-existing issues or maybe has a positive spin on things, that becomes more positive. So it's very, and then there's a bunch of people in the middle. But some of the guys that I knew that really had a hard time,


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[Assistant] They, they had issues going in. You know, they had problems, some issues going in to the situation, going into war, and those problems get exacerbated by the pressure and the stress of combat.


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[Assistant] So, we need to watch out for that one. Hey, I think war is more of an amplifier.


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[Assistant] That a creator, I think it amplifies good character, I think it amplifies bad character.


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[Assistant] Uh, a female pen pal when he was at war. Her name is Dieta Alman. And...


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[Assistant] One of the things that he, so he, so they capture these letters. And some of the letters, parts of some of the letters are published in here. Here's one of them. Back to the book. First, and most important, I've got my own conscience to answer to.


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[Assistant] Next my parents, and then I am an officer in the U.S. Army.


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[Assistant] I am damn proud of it and with the rank and position I hold.


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[Assistant] I wouldn't think of doing anything to bring discredit to my outfit, my paratrooper boots, wings, the airborne patch, or the US Army.


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[Assistant] Good morale within an outfit is usually reflected by good conduct away from it.


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[Assistant] That sounds like an idealistic high school kid, I know. But that's it. That's how I feel.


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[Assistant] Took that stuff very, very seriously. And I remember


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[Assistant] Don't, don't ever make the platoon look bad. Like no matter what, you don't make the platoon look bad. That's not allowed.


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[Assistant] Double tune comes first above everything. And...


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[Assistant] But that's the attitude. The attitude is like, look, you don't make the platoons look bad, you don't make the teams look bad. We didn't really, we weren't too concerned with the Navy back then. We didn't really even feel like, when I was that young in the SEAL teams, we weren't even thinking about the big Navy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We barely even recognized it. We were in the teams. It's more, as the teams became bigger and more prevalent,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We connected more with the big Navy when I was a new guy in the SEAL, when I was in the SEAL teams as a young guy in the 90s.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The punishment was, I'll tell you what the punishment was. Choco punishment. The punishment was, I am going to strike you two times in the face with an open hand. That's your punishment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or, we're gonna fight. Which one do you want? That was the punishment. Yeaah. He, in, and this guy was like, I'll take the two. Yeaah. And I was like, Roger that. And there was a little bit more tension than that, you know? Yeaah, fully, that's really good. Cause he was kinda like, bowed up a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was like, oh, if you want to get it on, we'll get it on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, it's funny because these guys, this group of guys who was, they were, they were all guys just trying to get after it and be good team guys, but we were just crazy, you know, at this point. And the teams was literally everything in my life. So when I was like, mad,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About disrespecting or making the platoon look bad. It like hurt me. I was that crazy that I just didn't want the platoon to look bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, when you did something that made the platoon look bad. Yea. It re-bothered me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so when you didn't, when you made us look bad...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wasn't happy, and not just I wasn't happy because I was a jerk or I wasn't happy because I was being a jerk at the time. But talking to these guys, you know, years later, talking to these guys, they're like, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, I agree with you and you can see where you can make a case for both of those selections. But there's also something cool, it's like, I'll take two hits to the face. Open hand, cool. I'm a man, I screwed up. I think that's the reason I respected it was because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was, it was like yeaah, I did screw up. Right, so I'll just take it. And I'll take it. I deserve punishment. Give it to me. Yeaah. And that was that. Yeaah. You know? And then we move on. No factor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this also reveals my own personal immaturity, right? These are, like seriously, this is, when I'm thinking about it, this is just an immature, you know, I was probably 22 years old.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And not getting the best guidance, not understanding things, not understanding that I wasn't helping build a cohesive unit, not understanding that this guy's probably thinking, oh, I don't want to help him. You know what I mean? It wasn't smart. I'm not, I'm not trying to say that this stuff was smart. I'm telling you the reality of the way it was. And the way it was in my head was, hey,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is my life. This seal platoon, I know it sounds crazy, this seal platoon that we're in is my whole life and I actually don't care about anything else. Mind you, this is in the 90's, there's no war going on. I'm just a young,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Crazy kid, and the only thing I know and the only thing I care about is the SEAL teams. And you know, you make the platoon look bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This platoon is my life. And you just made us look bad. And I, I can't stand that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I don't want it to be that way. So, young, immature, me, what do I do? Hey, there's gotta be punishment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was raised that way by the way as well. That's how we were raised. And there are some benefits to it. And like I said, even those guys that did platoons with me when I was quote unquote an old guy, even though we were nothing, we'd never been to combat, we were meaningless, but we had a couple more years in the SEAL team, so therefore you're an old guy, and the new guys are anyone with, with no deployments.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is actually pathetic in its own right, because the term in the SEAL teams...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being, oh, you're a new guy. That was from guys that were in Vietnam. That you hadn't been in combat yet, so you're a new boy. You're a cherry boy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From that perspective, it's embarrassing, cause here I was big, I'm an old guy, I wasn't an old guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you, you, you take what you had at the time, which was this organization, the SEAL teams, my platoon, and again, you can't, I can't describe really how important the SEAL platoon was to me. It was, well let me put it this way, it was my whole life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go. What did I do when I woke up in the morning? Went in, went into work. Worked out with my CEO platoon mates. What did we do then? We worked all day. What did we do for lunch? We ate together. What did we do at night? We went and got dinner. What did we do after that? We went and had drinks. What did we do after that? We hung out all night. What did we do after that? We went to sleep. Woke up and did the same thing day after day. That was my family.