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[Assistant] You know, it's extreme ownership, right? I'm not gonna blame everything on you for annoying me. I'm gonna take it on myself. And then sometimes you would have something that really like maybe you couldn't sleep and now you gotta talk to somebody else and have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the things that in, in, you know, where, where it's easy to sit and laugh here a little bit about some of this stuff, but one of your chapters is called Insanity.


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[Assistant] And uhm, I'm going to the book here. The first I knew of it was in the fall of 1968 and I didn't understand.


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[Assistant] An old beat up French ambulance rame- rattled into the courtyard, an American wearing prison guard crawled out. He weaved like a robot with head down and shoulders slumped. It was odd. Guards never allowed POWs to walk that way. We double-timed. Who was this man?


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[Assistant] Had he just come from the hospital? Was he tortured into semi-consciousness or was he faking? When would we find out?


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[Assistant] The man was hallucinatory, insisting that his cellmates were communists pieced together with limbs and heads of dead Americans. Whose arm is that, he asked. Is that my pilot's arm? How can you commies speak such good English?


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[Assistant] Because this man was wasting away, it was necessary for his cellmates to force feed him. The hostile patient was still strong, requiring four or five men to constrain him so that a bamboo stick could be forced between his teeth.


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[Assistant] Another prisoner mashed rice down his throat. When they finished, he would gag himself to regurgitate what he thought was poison from the communists, spewing rice all over the room.


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[Assistant] He was entranced. When the Vietnamese entered the room, he refused to bow.


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[Assistant] Angered, a guard screamed bow bow and whipped his fist across the expressionless face. The man continued to stand. The guards continued to beat him unmercifully.


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[Assistant] And you guys can send you to see this every six months or so. We saw our sick POW comrade transported between solitary confinement and the hospital.


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[Assistant] We felt helpless. The only way we could assist was with prayer. After September 1970, we never saw him again.


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[Assistant] We have another chapter and we touched on this a little bit earlier about faith.


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[Assistant] Going back to the book, thy will be done. Thy will be done. It seemed presumptuous to try to change God's will. To make a deal with the omnipotent.


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[Assistant] If I promised to devote my life to the ministry in exchange for freedom and failed to follow through, what then? No. Trying to bargain with God was unfitting.


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[Assistant] From the beginning, I offered prayers of acceptance. I remembered the experience of seeing the Christ-like shadow in the green knobby room and the comfort I felt in that time of great need.


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[Assistant] That day I asked God for strength to endure whatever hardship I might face, and I prayed for Anne. Not for her fidelity or success, but for tolerance, courage, and most of all, her happiness. With or without me.


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[Assistant] I continued this daily prayer.


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[Assistant] Faith was not just yours, but everyone.


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[Assistant] And here we go again showing some of the power that you guys had as prisoners. Back to the book. Thousands of Bibles had been sent to us from church groups all over the world. But the Vietnamese gave us none.


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[Assistant] Asking wasn't enough, so we decided to go on a hunger strike.


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[Assistant] Our senior officer informed the Vietnamese that we simply didn't want more food until we could have a Bible. An uninterrupted worship.


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[Assistant] They retaliated by shutting off our drinking water. After a few days, the Vietnamese were ready to settle, and so were we.


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[Assistant] They would give us a church service. If we abided by certain stipulations, the service would be held according to their schedule. No one could sing, no one could stand, and everyone would adhere strictly to camp regulations. Every word spoken in the ceremony was to be written down for the censor's perusal.


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[Assistant] After all the restrictions, we hadn't gained much, but at least the V had given an inch. After a few weeks later, the V saw that our services were not militant and relaxed restrictions.


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[Assistant] They permitted a four man choir to sing two hymns. Most important, they gave us a Bible for two days.


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[Assistant] You talk about their perception, uh, the Vietnamese perception of, of religion in general. Back to the book, the large majority of Vietnamese were not Catholic, however, and when they discovered us in prayer, as they did only the last year, they asked, what, what you derive from this thing, God?


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[Assistant] We tried to explain that we received strength, comfort, help, and promise of eternal life. These concepts were too difficult for them, yet many seemed interested and did not mock our beliefs.


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[Assistant] To the die-hard Vietnamese communist, the state was their god.


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[Assistant] Their truth, their way, their light. The controlling body and the government decreed infallible canons without fear of correction. Whenever peasants asked, who is the state? They were told that they themselves were.


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[Assistant] And that they had control in making decisions. Each was told that he was part of the omniscient state. He was, as long as he didn't interfere.


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[Assistant] I consider my confinement in prison to be spiritually beneficial. I was given an opportunity that few men have the time to pause, to reflect and to establish priorities.


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[Assistant] Stripped of all my material wealth, the only beacon I could home in on was my faith in an unchanging God.


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[Assistant] With most of the prisoners, I accepted the fact that we were not perfect.


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[Assistant] But felt that we were fighting for a worthy cause and should persevere until the end.


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[Assistant] And this is something I've brought up on many occasions. The fact of how hard we, when I fought in the war in Iraq and we went through extreme measures to try and protect the civilian populace and the civilian infrastructure. And here's your comments on that. Back to the book. Great efforts were made to persevere the lives and property of civilians.


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[Assistant] Pilots were threatened with court martial if they failed to pinpoint accurate military targets. Even to the extent that they would jeopardize their own lives by swooping just above treetops to preserve a peasant hut 50 yards from a SAM radar scope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Vietnamese capitalizing on this made targets especially difficult by placing their military equipment in the middle of peasant hamlets or next to schools. In fact, several anti-aircraft artillery guns were stationed on hospital rooftops.


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[Assistant] And your, your thoughts about the involvement here. The most powerful free nation in history could not idly watch.


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[Assistant] The communist world gobble up and dissolve sovereign nations.


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[Assistant] We had to play the surgeon to excise the malignant disease of mind control.


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[Assistant] I don't condone war. I think there are few justifiable reasons for killing.


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[Assistant] War was a last ditch effort of international diplomacy. It was difficult to justify my six years of imprisonment when politicians with expense paid trips to Paris should have solved the problems through negotiation.


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[Assistant] In this case, our negotiations were at the end of their rope.


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[Assistant] The communists didn't understand anything but the big hammer. When our B-52s shattered Hanoi's defenses with thousands of bombs, the Vietnamese realized we meant business.


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[Assistant] Thought here, we faced East once a week and pledged our allegiance. We contrasted our Bill of Rights.


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[Assistant] And the Constitution to the Communist Manifesto.


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[Assistant] Daily we saw how Big Brother destroyed individuality. We compared our lot with that of the guards.


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[Assistant] While prisoners of war were behind bars, the Vietnamese were captives inside their own bamboo borders.


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[Assistant] We consider ourselves more fortunate than they.


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[Assistant] One day, we would leave ourselves.


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[Assistant] It was, and you, and you talk about this in the book, I didn't go into it much, but there was always some people that were, uh, what'd you call them, the people that would look at the amount of food you got?


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[Assistant] I'm gonna live, I'm gonna be that guy. You know, of course I'm not gonna get killed. Everyone else is gonna die, not me. Uh, and so finally,


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[Assistant] Here we go, back to the book. The camp commander once again called our group together, about 180 of us old timers. It was the first time that all prisoners in the camp were gathered in one place. We lined up by buildings and military formation, and were called to attention by our acting wing commander, Lieutenant Colonel Norm Gaddis.


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[Assistant] The camp commander read an announcement and the interpreter read the translation.


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[Assistant] It had been a long time since I'd heard English worded so professionally.


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[Assistant] When he finished and told us that we could go, our wing commander again called us to attention and dismissed us.


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[Assistant] With bowed heads, with heads bowed, we walked quietly back to our rooms. We were stunned. Some had waited for these words for over eight and one half years. The war was over. We were going home.


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[Assistant] A little bit of a administrative situation when it came time, because you guys had all knew that you were going to follow the order that you were capped with, the sick and injured.


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[Assistant] We're gonna go first, then the enlisted guys, we're gonna go, and then order of capture.


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[Assistant] And then finally, uh, Colonel Gaddis just pulled you in and said, listen, you guys are going home.


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[Assistant] And then you get to the airport. At the airport, the bus halted near pockmark runways. We exited solemnly through a crowd of people and by microphone we were told.


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[Assistant] To walk to our receiving officer. When our names were called, as I heard my name I stepped past a table where Vietnamese and American representatives marked off the exchange.


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[Assistant] I saluted a Colonel, then another, and was escorted by an officer who was so excited he could have s- he could say nothing more than, Isn't it great? It's so nice to have you back. We've all been waiting for you. Isn't it great? I felt as though he had previously composed what he would say, but in his excitement, his record stuck.


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[Assistant] The officer inside that uniform grabbed me and hugged me and told me his name. I didn't know him until he told me he was the briefing officer on the Kitty Hawk the day I was shot down.


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[Assistant] Had once worked many hours together, and now we can joyfully recall old times.


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[Assistant] As soon as I was in the airplane, a nurse kissed me and started the first of a long chain of flash bulbs. We were given American cigarettes, magazines, and information sheets telling us what to expect at Clark Air Force Base. The pilot taxied down the runway, pushed off, pushed the throttles,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And at the moment of liftoff, suddenly it hit us. We were off North Vietnamese soil. We screamed above the noise of the engines. Minutes later, we were soaring above the Gulf of Tonkin and saw some of our ships. The commander of the 7th fleet.


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[Assistant] Send a message of welcome, and Jim returned to the radio com with a thankful acknowledgement.


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[Assistant] By nightfall, we reach the Philippines and Clark Air Force Base.


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[Assistant] As soon as the doors opened, we could see and hear the enthusiasm from what must have been 5,000 people.


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[Assistant] Banners and bands, choral groups and cheerleaders, everyone seemed to be there. I walked down the ramp, saluted a general, and then an admiral. As I shook the admiral's hand, I was so overcome with emotion, that I hugged him.


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[Assistant] And that had to be, when they start handing you magazines and cigarettes and food and all that, you go into that someone in here where they're just, how overwhelming is that?


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[Assistant] You know I was reading through, uh, some Vietnam POW poetry.


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[Assistant] I got caught, you know, I was just looking for background. I want to learn more and you know, people express themselves in poetry and I've got locked into probably a dozen poems.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As you're going through the motions with the doctors and the physical people and the, uh, the, uh, the PAs, the public affairs people, you're saying, hey, uhm, you know, why don't I see my wife? What's up with my wife? And no one's really answering that question for you. And finally you get the chaplain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you say, going back to the book here, I looked up at him and said, Chaplain, I have a great deal of faith in you and I want you to level with me.


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[Assistant] So far I haven't been able to get a straight answer from anyone and I want to know about my wife. Would you please be kind enough to tell me what's going on?


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[Assistant] And he says back, well Charlie, there is a problem with your wife. She is well, but she has some misgivings.


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[Assistant] I'm not sure as to the extent, but I'm sure that everything is going to be alright. She's written me a letter, but I didn't want to open it. I felt that you should. And you get the letter and it's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nothing crystal clear, but the message is clear enough that, you know, she's not wanting to stay married to you anymore.


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[Assistant] Going back to the book here a few days later, so you talk to Anne, but then, some of the stuff you say here is, I actually, I just, I just have to quote it, uhm,


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[Assistant] I would not become an obstacle to her happiness.


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[Assistant] I called her parents and they seemed quite unsettled about Ann's decision. A few days later I called Ann again and she complained that many members in the news media had been harassing her. She said she had often been misquoted and was the victim of character assassination.


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[Assistant] I then talked personally to some of the newspaper men and told them that I did not want her to be maligned in any way. In fact, I wanted them to say nothing at all about my wife.


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[Assistant] For the most part they were receptive to my wishes. I gave them a quote which they could use if they felt they had to. The divorce is regrettable, is a regrettable, but inevitable drifting apart after so many years.


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[Assistant] By this time, my hope for reconciliation was dead. I was determined to take it on the chin and roll with the punches.


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[Assistant] Well, you might not think you came off like a white knight, but that's a pretty, you know, awesome treatment of someone, for sure.


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[Assistant] A chapter called Reflections which is just phenomenal and you know, looking back at kind of what you learned there.


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[Assistant] I'm gonna hit some of the, some of the parts of it, because there's so much that everybody can, can learn from this.


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[Assistant] Particular patterns of behavior edged into our daily activities until they became folkways.


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[Assistant] There was nothing unusual about a man pacing the floor for hours like a caged tiger. No one, no notice was given.


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[Assistant] To the man lifting his soup bowl and licking it spotless. There was no stigma in baring our souls to one another. We had our own moors and sense of propriety.


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[Assistant] Our microchasm was a petri dish containing its own strains and culture.


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[Assistant] Although we had not been hand picked, we were, for the most part, out of the same mold. That of the professional officer and pilot.


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[Assistant] We were unique prisoners who acted differently from those of Korea or World War II.


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[Assistant] We have been exposed to a different selection process and a new era of lifestyles.


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[Assistant] Gathered together in a dubious fraternity of Hanoi skydivers. We were a group of cocky individuals. We knew we were the best.


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[Assistant] Stripped of personal possessions, of million dollar airplanes, of rank and prestige, we suddenly found ourselves at the bottom of a dark pit. We could no longer look outward. Our only alternative was to make the best of what we had.


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[Assistant] That will reach out to me and talk about the situation that they're in, a bad situation and a negative situation and, and, you know, it's hearing from people like you that makes everyone realize.


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[Assistant] A little bit of talk about you coming home. Back to the book, my first impressions of home were not too encouraging. Newspapers and magazines were devoted largely to the drug problem, permissiveness, the energy crisis, abounding crime rate, and eroding, and eroding, and eroding family structures. I was worried. Worried from a selfish viewpoint.


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[Assistant] I had sacrificed many years for my country, and I didn't want some young whippersnappers destroying it.


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[Assistant] But I decided to give myself a one year moratorium before taking a firm stand on any of my observations.


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[Assistant] I didn't have my wallet stolen, nor did I see opium dens or gang wars when I visited schools.


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[Assistant] Instead, I was pleasantly surprised with student demeanor.


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[Assistant] Young people freely ask questions and showed a genuine concern for answers. To me,


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[Assistant] They seem to have been unduly criticized by an inpatient adult society rather than given- been given wise counsel.


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[Assistant] They have more freedom, and I think they are generally capable of handling those freedoms.


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[Assistant] They are more mature than their counterparts of my generation. They have to be to survive.


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[Assistant] One of the reasons I called that little section out is because guess what we hear about? The Millennials right now. We hear the same thing about the Millennials.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you hear, and you know, meet with, uh, you know, we work with a lot of businesses and companies and people ask us about, you know, we got these millennials and it's so hard to lead them. And I say, oh, why is that? Because they want to understand why they're doing what they're doing.


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[Assistant] Because they want to know what the goal and purpose of their job is? That's nothing new.


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[Assistant] Oh, because they're, because they want to step up and run things? I want that person working for me. So, yeaah. Put a little moratorium.


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[Assistant] The same question kept popping in my mind. What am I doing here? I'm 10,000 miles from home, cooped up in a communist prison camp, unable to enjoy all the wonderful freedoms I was sent here to protect.


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[Assistant] My first answer was obvious. I'm fighting for my country. I'm serving the United States of America.


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[Assistant] I'd learned in school that America was purple mountain majesties and amber, amber waves of grain.


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[Assistant] That it was Congress and the executive and the judiciary.


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[Assistant] These were self evident, but I had to get more personal than that. America had to mean more.


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[Assistant] It had to relate to my own freedoms, the product of nearly 200 years of a pioneering spirit.


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[Assistant] My nation is a skinny kid who climbs on his bike before dawn to sling newspapers. My country is a librarian who sits behind glasses with pencil in her hair and is quick to find answers to my questions.


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[Assistant] My homeland is a truck driver who smiles down from his cab and signals me through the intersection. My America is a personal friend. And I am proud to serve her.


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[Assistant] And you go on to say that there must be a thousand definitions for freedom.


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[Assistant] Mine is simple. Freedom is the ability to walk through the door.


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[Assistant] It's not the act of walking through, that's proof of freedom.


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[Assistant] It's not going to church or speaking one's mind or demonstrating in the streets.


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[Assistant] Freedom is the ability to choose whether to go to church, to step up on a soapbox, to carry placards.


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[Assistant] Now that I am released, again, I move about at will.


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[Assistant] I say what I wish. I criticize and take criticism.


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[Assistant] I feel freer now than ever before because I know what freedom is.


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[Assistant] I appreciate those freedoms because I was once denied them.


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[Assistant] The appreciation for those freedoms. I mean, I'm doing my darndest here.


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[Assistant] How could you take six years of filth, brutality, and loneliness? I could have never done it. My answer is, of course you could.


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[Assistant] As a matter of fact, you rub elbows each day with people who have done it.


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[Assistant] We weren't the only prisoners. Millions of Americans have experienced the manacles of the body or shackles of the mind.


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[Assistant] They've been bound by unfortunate external circumstances. Automobile accidents, disease, natural disaster, paralyzing grief from the loss of a loved one. They've suffered deprivation and humiliation.


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[Assistant] Once a victim of misfortune, many become too insecure to open doors.


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[Assistant] Instead, they allow themselves to wallow in despair. They become alcoholics, drug addicts, unfaithful wives or husbands, unruly children.


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[Assistant] Inability to face personal responsibility is often hidden in seemingly innocent pastimes.


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[Assistant] Golf. Poker. Television. Sleep.


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[Assistant] These diversions spawn intense feeling of guilt and worthlessness.


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[Assistant] And some victims ultimately isolate themselves and become despondent.


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[Assistant] I had ample opportunity to damn society and curse my fate. But what good would that have done?


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[Assistant] To be sure the Vietnamese would not have released me simply because I felt sorry for myself.


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[Assistant] On the contrary, they used every available means to make that happen.


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[Assistant] A despondent prisoner was a prime candidate for communist indoctrination.


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[Assistant] For enduring six years of hell is really not a secret at all. First and foremost, I had faith in God.


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[Assistant] Knowing that his will would be done. I never doubted that I could persevere. I simply trusted God's promise to answer my prayers.


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[Assistant] But in growing up, I had discerned that most of the people in this great land are honorable and compassionate. Second, I had self-discipline.


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[Assistant] It would have been easier to avoid torture by succumbing to North Vietnamese interrogation.


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[Assistant] I could have rationalized myself into mental and physical paralysis.


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[Assistant] However, strict self obedience gave me the ability to persevere.


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[Assistant] Finally, I had pride. I was proud to know an omnipotent God.


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[Assistant] I have joined the ranks of millions of Americans who have applied heroic principles in overcoming hardships.


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[Assistant] Every day a disabled veteran steps away from his wheelchair.


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[Assistant] Every day, a life is resumed after a death in the family. Friendships erase loneliness.


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[Assistant] Addicts throw away the crutch of alcohol or drugs or obsessions.


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[Assistant] Every day, someone discovers how to love life. No matter what the obstacle.


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[Assistant] Every day, someone sees the light at the end of the tunnel.


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[Assistant] These ordinary Americans are not held in esteem as heroes, yet they have suffered grave misfortune and have recovered. Just as I.


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[Assistant] Colonel, that starting point that allows those things to grow in someone's mind so that they can overcome these kind of challenges.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's interesting, I was talking, you know, I was talking to your son, Alex, and we were, we were talking about how, you know, as he was growing up and he was hearing your sort of philosophy of life and the world and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when he heard me on a podcast and he started saying, wait a second, I've heard this kind of stuff before. And then we were talking about how, you know, I've kind of said that now that, you know, there's some,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's two things that you said that I say all the time. And number one, this perspective of, you know, what's that initial spark to say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And can you hold the line and get yourself pointed in the right direction? And can you have the discipline to do that? Can you have the faith in yourself that you're going to make that happen? And can you have the pride? And you know what? Dick Winters talked about that too on the Lost Podcast, uh, you know, Dick Winters from the first of the 506 Band of Brothers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was if the, if he saw them begin to lose pride.


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[Assistant] And how, hey, if I don't care what Echo thinks of me, if I come in here, I'm not ready for this podcast, and he's gonna look at me like, oh, I guess Choco's just letting it slide, and all of a sudden, if I don't care anymore, I don't care anymore. Now I'm not preparing. Now I'm not getting ready. And, and then you take someone in combat, and they start to lose pride, and all of a sudden they say, I don't care who sees me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things that you have to be careful of because just like any other dichotomy that we have as human beings, yes, you can get so much pride that you no longer think you can do anything wrong in which we know where that leads. That's right. And you can have not enough pride to keep yourself on the right path. Amazing stuff. Uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Echo, did you have any questions? Just wondering.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, uh, alright, Echo. Sir, do you have anything else on that, on that right there? No. Okay. Uh, no, no, no, no further details on the scooter rides. We got that clear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Echo, uhm, you know, do you think that you could maybe tell us how to support the podcast?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Annoy me. I'm just gonna, I'm just like okay with it. It's my problem. If I don't want to listen to him talk, that's my problem. He has the right to speak for long, you know, hours about, you know, this stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what do you subscribe to? Jocko Podcast YouTube. Subscribe to that. That's what you subscribe to. Yeah, you know, the Jocko Podcast YouTube channel. It's just like a channel. It's a YouTube channel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, that's right. You're wearing one of those. Some Warrior Kid stuff. If you're on YouTube, call Model It. Bunch of people were hitting me up for Warrior Kid t-shirts. And, and then immediately, people said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We want them for adults too. So we made some for kids, but then adults said we want them. So now we got warrior kids. Cause can you be a 45 year old warrior kid? I think I am. I think I'm in the game as a warrior kid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's people now identifying layers on Twitter, by the way, which is a pre- Yeah. There's been some really good identification of layers. There's some layers in that book. Oh, yeah. They're gonna get deeper too. Yeah man, it's good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, good. And also, by the way, the book that we reviewed today with Captain Plum, it's available on CharliePlum.com. C-H-A-R-L-I-E-P-L-U-M-B.com. That's where you can get it. It's called I'm No Hero. That's right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, you can get some Jocka White tea on there.


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[Assistant] If you need to drink liquid in your life, you might as well drink a liquid that's gonna make you smarter, stronger, faster, and a more dynamic human being.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From another angle. And it's gonna get them to understand some things like hard work, discipline, honor.


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[Assistant] Physical training, mental training, studying. No one think Jocko was going to write a book and teach me how to study. They didn't think that, did they Echo? Tell me the truth. They didn't think that? No. They didn't see my college degree.


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[Assistant] Uncle Jake is a good man. He puts it out to it right.


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[Assistant] You can pre-order the book Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, which explains to you how to get after it. So get after it and order the book. Of course, extreme ownership. This is for your leadership principles tested.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tested in combat, tested in the business world. They're there for you to read, to learn.


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[Assistant] Win. And if you need more than that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From the book. If you need more than the book and the podcast for your business or your team, Echelon Front, echelonfront.com. You can email at info on echelonfront.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Leadership and management. Consulting. Training. Also, the muster. Number.


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[Assistant] Three. Number three, Austin, Texas, July 13th and 14th, Omni Barton Creek Resort. I'm not gonna say spa anymore. I'm not going to the spa. No, I'm gonna have that thing shut down while we're there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No spa going on. So come down July 13th and 14th and join us in the pursuit of world domination. That's the goal. And if you can't make Texas, you can come to San Diego September 14th and 15th back in SD for number four.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in the meantime, while you're waiting for that, if you have questions or comments for us, you can get us on the interwebs. Now first of all, speaking of millennials,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Captain Plum, sir, you are all up in the technology here. You are on Twitter, at Captain Plum, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just, uh, a social media junkie is what I'm hearing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and you also, you mentioned quickly while we were talking that you do speaking engagements and all that. Where's the best place to contact you for those type of events or consulting?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cruising on the interwebs. On Instagram, on Twitter. Echo is at Echo Charles. I am at Jocko Willink and we are also in the Facebook. So you can check that one as well. Echo, you got anything else for us today?


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[Assistant] And sir, do you have anything, any other closing thoughts you want to add?


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[Assistant] Make any additional points on that other than to say, when you have a...


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[Assistant] That's unbelievable. And sir, obviously I, I can't thank you enough.


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[Assistant] For coming on the podcast for writing the book for sharing the knowledge that you paid so dearly to acquire and


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[Assistant] To the families of those brave men who will never return.


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[Assistant] And for those families. And for those brave men.


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[Assistant] And if you feel like your life is in a place where


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[Assistant] Yeah, I agree. Yeah, guys that are deployed.


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[Assistant] Thanks Chakos, thanks Al, and it's my honor to be here too. Uhm, you are an unbelievable warrior as Mikey Mansoor, I tell you.


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[Assistant] Love goes out to George and Sally and everybody there, but uh, that was an unbelievable day to have Tommy and me there.


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[Assistant] All the other teammates there. It was a lot different than when I received my medal. So, uh, but it, it was an honor that these young men are getting the respect that they deserve so much. And then to bring the whole team home when I received my medal was only Tommy. And Tommy received his medal was only me. So.


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[Assistant] God bless the Navy, they're finally getting it right and honoring these great young men like Mikey Mansour and Ed Byers.


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[Assistant] South Carolina. Yeah, correct. I was born and raised in the hills of South Carolina and my, uh,


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[Assistant] Like I say, he only had a sixth grade education, but he was a guy that everybody respected. He had his own company and, uh,


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[Assistant] I used to ask guys, why have you been working for my father for 30 years? You know, he said because he, and my dad always told me this and that's what I tried to do when I was in the team. Take care of your people. Your people will take care of you. And my mother gave us love and religion and


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[Assistant] But daddy was hard as rocks and, uh, but, uh, you had the greatest respect for that man and everybody else that knew my father had the same respect for him.


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[Assistant] Not until I had been wounded several times during my second tour overseas and he said


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[Assistant] He said, I think you'll understand this. And I said, daddy, I understood the first time I was ever wounded. So, uh, you know, wounded in 1939 or wounded in 1969 or wounded in today's war, I think it brings a reality that war sucks any way you look at it.


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[Assistant] Uh, actually I've never even read the book. My wife's read it to me five times and I'd make the changes and stuff like that. But I do have it on tape and if I hear something I understand it. But what I'm trying to say in that is let young men know, uh,


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[Assistant] You may have it tough, but you can redo this. I've been a successful businessman.


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[Assistant] I went all the way through the ranks, and I got a commission, and I did this, and I'm just trying to say, there's only one, and that's what I tell these kids when they're going through training, but you know that. There's only one person that's going to stop you, and that's yourself.


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[Assistant] There's always to get across that obstacle, under it, around it, on top of it, one way or the other, so don't let something stop you and, uh, and for you to move forward and make a better life for yourself and your family.


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[Assistant] Well I didn't know this, uh, 20 years later my father finally told me him and the juvenile judge was a, they were friends with each other. And he said I'm gonna let you make your first major decision and go to juvenile.


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[Assistant] Uh, basically six months in a juvenile hall where I could turn around and make the first major decision in my life. And I'd saw that crazy movie, The Five Solomon Brothers.


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[Assistant] During World War II, then I saw the movie The Navy Frogman with Richard Whitmore.


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[Assistant] Enlisted me was a second class machinist mate.


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[Assistant] And Ned, his name was Ned Johnson, and when he retired he was back as an E9. He was a senior enlisted for recruiting in the state of South Carolina. And he tells everybody how he made Mike Thornton who he was today.


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[Assistant] Like I say, my dyslexia was pretty bad and I had to get a 10 point waiver just to get into the teams. And they must have needed people pretty damn bad because I finally got my waiver and I was in Hawaii and I came back to Coronado and went through training.


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[Assistant] I mean, if you didn't keep your hands loose, he'd kill you.


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[Assistant] Of course, uh, Dick and Vince and Dick both have passed, but they're memories and uh, there's a funny thing about life itself, you know, and uh,


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[Assistant] It's not what you've done, it's the respect you want to gain from the teammates. Dick and Terry and Vince all gained my respect and my love.


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[Assistant] As long as Mike Thornton is alive, the stories will continue going on. So, that's all I want from, uh,


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[Assistant] My peers to remember who Mike Thornton is, and that's what those guys taught me.


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[Assistant] Actually, Vince was one of the original Seals, uh, in 1962. And, uh, he went over to Nam, but of course back then they didn't know what they were going to do with the Seals during that period of time.


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[Assistant] Correct, you just cracked open the door. Then you gotta go through the damn door, and after you get through the door, you gotta prove yourself. Like you were saying, we were nobody back then, you know, if you hadn't had a couple of tours of Vietnam, you were just trash as far as they were concerned.


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[Assistant] Well, I think it's like you were talking about me in your great introduction, which I don't deserve that. But, uh, Barry was a leader. He took care of everybody. And, uh, he's a guy kinda like I looked up to my father. He was my see daddy. And, uh, he was always there for all of us.


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[Assistant] Me and, uh, last night Tom Boyhan and me and Wayne Hampton and Mike LaCroix and, uh,


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[Assistant] And how Kirk and Doll, we're all getting a picture together and remembering the great guys. And we're all talking about Barry, of course, Barry Felt, uh, passed away a few years ago. And, uh, he's another guy, you know, it's like I say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He'll always be in all our conversations and uhm, somebody we all looked up to, you know.


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[Assistant] So, uh, it's the great leadership, I mean, that he showed us. And not just the leadership as a leader, but the leadership he showed us to try to be a better person.


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[Assistant] By that time we finally got the LSSCs, which were in the late and then the medium support seal support craft. Of course we had the Mighty Mo. A lot of our stuff was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, it was a mic, big mic A, then it had the, uh, you see it had all the, uh,


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[Assistant] Rebarb about 20 inches out, so if you got hit by an RPG, it'd explode there instead of going through the hole. Uh, we did a lot of uh, like I was working down


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[Assistant] Uh, down the C-Float with Steve Friss with the KCS, cause back then we didn't have that many sales, so we would help each other. We'd, if they'd say we need help, we'd converse our people right around.


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[Assistant] I was a 60, I had a Stoner 60, and I, and I carried a Carr 15, but I always carried a Swedish K with me all the time, and a pistol. I always had a backup, as I call it.


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[Assistant] As he jumped out of the boat, his barrel fell out in the water in the river, and he's down there digging. He's yelling, give me one of your guns. I said, hell no, I'm keeping all my guns. So, uh, you know, as we all learned, and Mike was a great M60 guy, he saved our asses many times.


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[Assistant] But uhm, everybody did their job. As you were saying a while ago, it was a team effort. And my life was saved by people like Mike Lacaz and other people in my platoon. And we backed each other up all the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Rich Solano was working with the Golf platoon, I think, and that was when the helicopter went down. And of course, when you come off a hot LZ, you're supposed to shut down your aircraft and check the rotor blades, because back then the rotor blades could have a hole and it could last for 30 minutes or 45 or an hour. And, uh, the, uh,


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[Assistant] The pile of the, the Hilo wanted to get back for a birthday party or something. And the Hilo found, and actually Rich was killed, and, and, uh, uh, Durland was killed, and Toby Thomas was killed, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, hell, who else was there?


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[Assistant] Gardner was killed. So that was one of our biggest, we lost five guys that day, not four, we lost five. And I went down and, uh,


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[Assistant] ...and identified the bodies and, uh, it was...


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[Assistant] You know, I only had one bad dream in my whole life, and it was after identifying that, because Rich Wholeface was completely gone, and the only way I could identify him, he had a scar on his arm. And uh, but you know, a loss of any teammate, as you know, as well as I do, like Mikey, and uh, and every time,


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[Assistant] You know, every time I lose even a new kid today, which I've been out speaking to their class and stuff like that, you lose a little bit more of your heart. I don't know how much more of my heart I got to lose, but uh, it takes it out of you. I mean, it's uh, I don't want to see anybody ever get hurt.


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[Assistant] Well, I'm sure you've heard of Dave Shibley, uh, Commodore Shibley, and, uh, Al and, uh, and Dave are best of friends.


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[Assistant] Al was another mentor like Barry Enoch to me and uh, they went through class 2 of UDT back in the 50s and they were all in Korea and stuff and uh, he led by example again.


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[Assistant] One of the finest officers, as Tom Boyhan was, a great officer, a great leader. And Al was with us on that, and that's the reason why Al and I were so close. And, uh, we trained the, uh, Ty UDT and the SEAL team tactics, and then they went up and worked off the borders. So that's all I can say about that.


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[Assistant] Uh, but we've lost a lot of those guys which have passed in through age or cancer or something, and you know, uh, it's, it's, you know, the one great thing about the reunion, you know, none of us are getting any damn younger, so you better get out and see your shipmates any time you get a chance, so.


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[Assistant] Yep, they were, you took care of them, they took care of you, and of course the reason I feel that Tommy and I are still alive today is because of Dane and Quan, which I explain in the book. They were, I had worked with them on previous tours and many operations and, uh,


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[Assistant] Tommy was the senior SIL operator in the country, then we had Ryan McComby and, uh, another lieutenant that was there, and they were all, they were all East Coast guys. Uh, we had, actually, I think we had, uh, more like, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Chamberlain and Harry Kanakua went with, uh, Lieutenant Hughes down one thing, then Ryan McCombie was our boss and I stayed up. So, uh, everybody had had many tours that went down south and I had the most tours and I stayed up north.


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[Assistant] Uh, with, uh, Ryan McComby, then Tommy would go back and forth, uh, to run operations. Of course, it was hard to get, uh, AOs approved because, uh, you know, it was pretty, at that time we were fighting in Quantry and Way City and all that stuff and they were trying to overtake it, but, uh, we still were able to get our ops in. And, uhm,


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[Assistant] Uh, approximately, I think we had, uh,


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[Assistant] We had more LDNs than we did, but we separated those guys too.


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[Assistant] Uh, I know when we went on the operation, uh, Woody, uh, was, we always had a seal, as you know, on an insertion extraction craft. And Woody had a, uh, we only had three El Nino's on the op with us, but he had another six or eight on the boat, the boat if we needed resupplies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, when, uh, we, uh, resubmitted, Tommy was put in for a medal and it was resubmitted, uh, and then he was upgraded to the Medal of Honor later.


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[Assistant] Greatest friend any man could ever ask for and, uh, I look back on the officers, the leadership we had on, like I was saying, Tom Boyhead and Captain Shively and Tommy and Ryan McComby and Norm Carley and, you know, even when we were in six with Marcinko and stuff like that, it was, uh,


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[Assistant] Looked up to them for, for always being there for the troops, you know. They may chew your ass out, but nobody else is going to, so.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, uh, basically the NVA had already moved across the Coiviet River, so that was the, we knew that, and we knew, and they were trying to take over Quantry again, and uh, and they attacked on Way City, that was in April, and this was in October, when this thing was going down, so we knew it was hot and heavy up there, but uh,


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[Assistant] You always call him Ty. Well yea, but we put a different name in there because, uh, he kinda made the operation go south.


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[Assistant] So here's the basic concept of operations. Well really the funny part of it, uh, Tommy said I'll do the mission if you let me choose who I want to take. Back then we had a rotation basically where everybody would get a chance to go in the field. And with, I always went in the field with the new guys and stuff.


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[Assistant] We've never operated together. And he said, I bet it's just Mike Thornton. He said, uh, yes sir, that's who I want to take with me on that operation. And actually Woody was supposed to be going in on that.


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[Assistant] Yeah, he was riding and a whaler ran into the pier. He hit his head and he busted both his eyes and he couldn't even see. They were both completely shut. So, uh, this is how we got the other new ulcer, which I've never worked with, but, uh,


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[Assistant] But I'd worked many tours, I mean, not many tours, but many operations with the other two guys and I'd worked with Quan and he was really good.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well basically what they're supposed to do is vector us in and that's where each ship takes a radar


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[Assistant] Uh, one of the ships shooting is they were trying to overtake Quan Tri again, and he left and went down south to help give gunfire support, uh, to, uh, to help the Vietnamese Army and Marine Corps to hold off the NVA.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, when that one guy shot the azimuth and he was about three degrees off, but when you're 15 miles off the beach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three degrees is a lot. Yeah. And, uh, everybody said, uh, the CEO said, that's the river, right? It actually was the Ben Ha River, which was actually in North Vietnam. So when we went and inserted, we're way north of the Qua Viet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically. South of the Bend High, so we, and Tommy and I discussed it and, uh,


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[Assistant] He said, well, we'll go ahead and go in. We'll do what we call a horseshoe op. We'll go in so many clicks and go north and then go back to the east, back to the ocean and, and try to, if we can, uh, pick up, uh, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we could do, we were doing a body stance too. Of course, by a body stance you get your best intelligence that way.


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[Assistant] Well, for three different reasons. One, the kids show low silhouette. Uh, we knew that we were within a battalion of NVA at that period of time. Then we saw tanks and gun, gun emplacements. So, uh, we knew that we were way north of where we were supposed to be. So, uh,


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[Assistant] By getting in the stream, the tide range is 18 feet over there, so the current was running out, so we knew it was going out to the ocean. So we got in there, by keeping our low silhouette in there, we could move a lot faster in the water, and we didn't, uh, hopefully, uh,


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[Assistant] Well, actually, they were in a base camp type deal, and it was a quick reaction force, and we knew the main force was behind us. Uh, of course, that's, uh, that exposed us, kinda cut off our southern route.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So to the north of us, which we knew were going farther north, there was that big lagoon as the map showed. And so we would have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, to our eastern flank we had the ocean, to the western flank we had the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The lagoon and then to the south we had the bad guys that we knew of and to the north we had some sand dunes and, uh, but we could see.


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[Assistant] After you passed this one big bunker, you could see nothing but flat beach, so we figured that'd be our best, uh, objective to move up there. And Tommy got on top of this, we thought it was a big sand dune, but actually it was a bunker built and actually had tunnels down inside of it, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I found the bunker. And then you brought Tommy there? Tommy went up there with the radio man, which was dang, and that gave us, you know, of course back then is the radios for PRC 77's line of sight, which you, uh, so, yeah.


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[Assistant] And or back to the ship. Back to the ship. If anything's needed. The ship was a Newport and used in the USS Morgan. That's what the ships were then. We had, we finally got Woody, but Woody was down off the mouth of the Quavette. He thought, you know, after he got their bearings, so they were a long ways off from where we were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The high water line and these guys were walking up and down the high water line and the other guy was about a hundred, a hundred and fifty, a hundred yards ahead of the guy cause the other guy was walking up in the sand dunes and I figured


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We gotta make sure we knock him out. Let the other guys just walk him by cause he's just tootling down the, the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the, uh, coastline looking around. And, uh, so I said, I, I sent Quan down with the hush puppy. Not Quan, but, uh, the, uh, officer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I sent him down, and I said, this guy's gonna walk by us, but when the other guy, I'll take him out. And then I had Quan there with me, and Quan


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After I knocked him out cold and when Quan got him, he taped him up and secured him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Correct. And you said kill him, right? No, I said if you could take him, take him down. Okay, got it. But he's right on the shoreline, so the waves are breaking that's making a lot of turbulence and noise.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then the other guy's up in the sand and he's at the high water line walking around looking like that.


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[Assistant] I knew he would be the last one there, but we had to make sure we took him out for sure. And then I told the officer he could go up and take this guy out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or eliminate him or just make sure he didn't go back to the village cause the village is on down the beach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, uh, he stood up and yelled, Lai Dae Ma Lin in Vietnamese doesn't mean stop, come here. He's got an AK-47. Uh, the bad guy does. He's got, uh, you know, a 22 long hush puppy, which is about from here across this room. And, uh, you know, he's out there like that and then the guy opened fired on him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's running back towards Tommy and me and I'm running past him because I know he's on his way to the village.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as I say in the book, you know, they have radios like everybody did, so what sometimes they would, the way they would, uh, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was seeing, uh, information they'd shoot so many rounds in the sky and somebody'd answer back, but they changed all the time. But at that period of time, he only shot off two rounds. So I, hopefully that didn't mean something bad or good. And, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got to the, uh, opening of the, uh, he went across the, uh, creek, uh, the creek bed and he was heading straight to the, uh, entrance to the village and I dropped down to one knee, hit two shots, hit him in, uh, in the back, he fell down and the next thing, all hell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those 50 to 75 bad guys were chasing us down.


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[Assistant] And I was heading back to Tommy, and we got back and I moved out on the point as the book explains, so I let it go from there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they had taken our, the guy we did capture up there and he was up there. So I moved the officer to rear security and told him if he sees anything, let Tommy go. And I put Klon over on my eastern.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Flank, which is the side of the ocean. So I was about 50 feet ahead of him, 50 yards ahead of him. So I could cover, I could see everybody coming in. So I was kind of like the point, but I kept quan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over to on the ocean side if they tried to flank me he would knock them off then I could see them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd engage them and what I'd do, I'd come up over here, I'd roll over and come up somewhere else. I'd throw a grenade over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd move back, throw another grenade, I'd move forward where the grenade hit because I'd buy that time, and uh, I gave them a frost priest hint as to how many people we had. They didn't know if we had 12 or 15 or


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well all they did was Tommy and them were shooting from up there, but Tommy was on the radio trying to get communications.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they started moving north at that period of time and they were shooting smoke in the air and the firefight went for almost three hours, actually two hours and fifty five minutes and we had eliminated a lot of these guys and they started falling back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Making good hits, making sure. What I'd do, I'd shoot in the sand about an inch, and I'd see their heads come up, then I'd shoot about an inch below the sand, and I'd get a headshot every time, so you could tell that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pulled those things before and they wouldn't go anywhere from 14 seconds to 28 seconds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well I yelled grenade and I grabbed it and threw it back. I was going 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, about the time I hit 8,000 the damn grenade came back over and I'm going 12,000, 13,000 because of course we're using thousands and that gives you a good second and I threw it back and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the, the grenade went back and forth five times and I was at 21,000, 22,000. I said, this thing's got to go off. And it went off and I was hit six times and my back was wrapped up. And I just yelled out, I didn't say nothing else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when I yelled out, I just stayed there and I looked up and there was four guys coming across and I eliminated all four of those guys. And that's when we found out they started falling back and Tommy said, they're falling back. And I said, that's it. He said, are you okay? I said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you don't worry about yourself, you just need, you know, you need to get out of there, that's all we need.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To the north, by itself. I mean, everything else is flat, except for that one doom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And who, who's gonna stay up there? Tommy and Dangle Ray are gonna stay up there and Tommy said you fall back.


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[Assistant] Cause at that period of time, I was the only one that had any, uh, been wounded.


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[Assistant] What we did, I looked across, I had a pair of binoculars, I looked across, and I said, I can understand why, because I counted almost a hundred guys, and Tommy said there's a lot more than that, and it was an NVA battalion, they were trying to encircle us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And by the time I got back, uh, as the book says, uh, Dane comes back by himself, cause Tommy had been shot in the head at that period of time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, like I said, you know, you and I have talked about the camaraderie and the respect we have for each other, and even though Tommy's much smaller than I am, he would have done the same thing for me, and I know that, so, so, it's like you say, you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So as I was running back with him, I got shot through my left calf, and through my, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what we do. So that's what it is. You don't, you know, fear's a good thing, but you gotta focus. I mean, if, you know, I could have sat down and said, hey, we're all gonna die, I'm just gonna lie here and do it. But I said, I'm gonna take as many of those SOBs down as I can. And, uh, you know, and the thing is, is that, uh, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know Tom Boyhan was saying last night, he said, you know, I don't think you ever knew what fear was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I knew what it was, but I mean being afraid, you know, if you worry about being afraid of everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You should never be in the field because you're not focused on what you're trying to do. So that's the whole thing is, you know. So we're out there to do a job, so let's get the damn job done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like flicking the switch, you know, white switch. You get your mind into what you're supposed to be doing. So, if a guy doesn't have his mind in the game, he's going to stay at home. He ain't going out in the field with Mike Thornton, I promise you that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't inflate Tommy's life jacket as some of the stories said. I was using Tommy like a surfboard and every time a wave would break I'd push him underneath the water and bring him up the other side because the worst thing you could do is have a wave and we had six sets of waves coming in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's how Quan ended up getting injured. He got shot.


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[Assistant] And, uh, so after I got Tommy out, that's when I put, and I could never find Tommy's life jacket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's good because we can put a piece of tape and then, you know, if you have a, you know, sucking, uh, chest wound, I can take. So I took my life jacket off me, put it on his head, and I took the, you know, the old UDT, I took the harness, but I just put a little bit of air and I started, uh, breast stroking out to sea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's when I saw Quan was not going anywhere. And I could see Dang out in front of me. And so I swam over and grabbed Quan and I


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, put Quan in front of me. And Quan had been shot too. He had been shot too. Pretty bad. In the, in the back femur and also his buttocks was completely kind of gone so he couldn't. So I, uh. So you're wounded.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And put his arms, I put my arms underneath Quan's arms and he held Tommy like this and I started breast stroking until we got out.


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[Assistant] That's true. And that's the way great leadership is. Sometimes people surpass that because they, you know, but it goes back to the thing that you and I were talking about earlier. You take care of your people. Your people will take care of you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He saved our life. I mean, Billy wouldn't give up on us. He would not give up. He kept looking for us.


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[Assistant] And actually the Morgan thought they had killed us all. They thought, and they never knew until several years ago that we were still alive.


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[Assistant] I'm glad that Bill found us because Bill was going to do a counter attack and then we had Ryan McComby down in Tuinan getting a bunch of guys, everybody else that was left to come and find us. So that goes back to the things about taking care of your teammates, you know.


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[Assistant] And, and thank God they did find us because, uh,


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[Assistant] Ready to go. They're coming after us, you know.


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[Assistant] Heavy duty guys, but that goes back to even what we have today with, you know, like Eric Critchson trying to go in and, uh, losing the guys that, you know, we go, we're going to go in and get our boys back out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and, and, and, you know, we passed a baton on back from where I am, and these, these young men who serve us now, I have the greatest admiration. They're a lot smarter than I am, because they, uh, I mean, again, you got these kids going through training now. They're all got college education, but they're enlisted guys. They just want to be in the teams.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's correct, there's a doctor. I knew there was a doctor on board because it was a Navy cruiser. And they had a lieutenant commander on board. And I called Woody and I said, we have four WIA and one critical.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they, Newport News did turn around and we started steaming and, and our junk, Woody was on the other junk, our junk got there first and, uh, we passed down a, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, a boats and chair, then we passed down a rigger, then we put Tommy inside that and got him up there. And, uh, I actually picked Tommy up out of it and carried him down because the thing was too wide to get through the hatch. So I picked Tommy back up and carried him down and laid him on the gurney in the doctor's office.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then I got called to the broods to debrief the admiral.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I, uh, got on the radio and Ryan McComby and, uh, we met Evac Tommy off, uh,


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[Assistant] Uh, by helicopter to Da Nang and Ryan flew down on a helicopter and he was waiting in Da Nang.


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[Assistant] And Ryan stayed with Tommy the night he sent a 141.


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[Assistant] Uh, cause we knew we were gonna get our POWs, Admiral Stockdale, Bud Day, people like that out. And, uh, uh, so all the top doctors, you know, neurosurgeons, all those guys were over there cause they had already pulled everybody out of Vietnam with the exception of just general practitioners.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, by the time we got Tommy through the whole operation and got him to the Philippines to Clark's, it was almost 19 hours long, the medevac, then his operation lasted 19 and a half hours, his first operation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they stayed in touch with us, but I stayed on board of the Newport News to the following day to take care. The Vietnamese spoke English, but I spoke Vietnamese.


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[Assistant] Pretty, I mean, I was fluent in Vietnamese and so I stayed on there until we got them all patched up.


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[Assistant] In the funny part, it wasn't the eye as much as it was the loss of the front lobe part of his brain. That was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, I think that was one of the, we talked about it because he wanted to stay in. He was, uh, already, uh, chose to be a lieutenant commander at that period of time. And, uh, of course, she owned medical hold. That does, that goes to stop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maguire, Burt Callan, I mean, the way you look at it, I watched the teams grow from, yeah, 04 was as high as you could go and still be in the teams. And now look at it, and the guys are, they just.


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[Assistant] Amaze me every time I look and read something or something how much I'm so proud of each one of these young men who serve this great nation.


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[Assistant] Well, you know, I mean, how proud all you guys were when we were there with Admiral Olson, and you guys were receiving your awards in the Pentagon, you know, after Mikey Mansoor, and, and, you know, you look at the guys, Job and those guys that, you know, of course,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He lost his life in a very basic operation and, uh, but you know, even though when they had the diversity against them, they continued to strive to make their life better.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, yeaah, and uh, he goes in and gets his college education and has a beautiful family, and uh, he's, I remember there when I was able to put the purple heart on him, and Tommy and I were there with Admiral Olson of course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, no, no, he was at the Pentagon. Oh, okay. Oh, oh, at the awards ceremony, the bigger awards ceremony. We had for you guys the big ones and then we went down and he gave other from the team three, we gave, uh, Colin Green was there. Yeah, yeah, it was awesome. It was the task unit bruiser.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And our spouses don't get enough credit for what they do. I mean, they raise our kids, families, they take on, you know, stuff that we should be there to try to help them with, but you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We have amazing spouses, uh, you know, in the teams too. And we have a lot better, you know, the first thing I mentioned, my wife, they said, did the Navy issue her? No, they don't. Now we have a whole different outlook, thank God.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have to put up with all the BS with a man taking a car in there trying to, hell, I know how to change oil. They say, you know, don't try to pull that one over my eyes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you know, Mike Thornton has always been a renegade and probably always will be a renegade and I wouldn't go let it change me. And, uh, so, uh, you know, when I went back to get the medal, they wouldn't let Tommy out of the hospital. So I kidnapped him and kept him for four days.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's who we can never forget, and freedom is not free, and uh, we must honor each and every one of them, and they all deserve the medal that's given their lives for this great nation.


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[Assistant] I know what part they're going through, but, you know, until you lose a child of your own, that God has blessed you to give.


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[Assistant] Well Echo, I'm sorry you didn't get a whole lot of speaking time there buddy.


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[Assistant] Thanks for coming on. It's my honor. Thank you for what you're doing and, uh, getting the word out to the public and, uh, because, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To the ones who have given so much. And that goes back to what you and I were talking about too. I mean the, uh, the wives, the children, the sacrifices they make for their, for their spouses to go overseas and keep this nation free.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's called the Michael E. Thornton Foundations Cement Fund, uh, we give out money, uh, and I don't give out


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, 50,000 or 100,000, I give out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, 10,000 here, 5,000 there, and our Met Foundation basically, or I'll give out 20,000, you know, and just a couple examples. One was a young Marine, came back, he was a corporal, they retired him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, of course now it takes anywhere from 19 months to two years to get into the VA. He had these bad headaches, but he'd have enough money to pay for us.


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[Assistant] His co-payment, so I write a check to the MRI, to the hospital, I write the check, they do an MRI, find out he had a brain aneurysm and was able to save the young man's life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another one, we had a guy in Special Ops, uh, he was an Air Force Major Intel Officer at JSOC, he was overseas, his wife got done with us with, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Stage 4 cancer, we put her into Duke University to try to save her life.


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[Assistant] Uh, a friend of mine goes back to the day when we started SEAL Team 6 and, uh, along with, started JSOC in 1980. He was our chaplain. He was a Catholic chaplain and he calls me up and says, Mike, I hear you had a great foundation. I have a problem. I said, what is your problem? I do, I do diligence. We were able to get their kids into the, back in this,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Christian school, which all the kids, they're raised from the age of seven to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ten or eleven, I can't remember. And, uh, there's three of them, but they had spent their whole school time there. Uh, but the father causes the coal payments.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We say it already built up to like a hundred something thousand dollars with the co-payments. I paid for the kids tuition, wrote a check.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they took care of the over the hundred and some thousand dollar cold payments. So I put a bandaid on the problem and then I try to go other, but I mean, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, of course, yeaah. But I mean, I work with the Navy SEAL Foundation, Navy SEAL Family Foundation. We work with, to keep in our history of the museum, which John Lee does a great job that we do up at Pebble Beach. The Marine Corps Law Enforcement Foundation, which is the number one foundation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Out for the calls. Where can they find your foundation? Just pull up the mat, fine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. Uh, online. M-E-T? Yeah. Fund? Uh, the, the Matt Fund or the Michael Lee Thornton. I put my name on it. The buck stops with me. If somebody's pointing fingers, they only got one finger to point. I'll take full responsibility of what I do. So as I always have.


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[Assistant] You know, don't do, uh, and I have people like Bob Carey, Congressman. He used to be a Medal of Honors on my board. I have an Admiral.


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[Assistant] I have supports of people all over the United States.


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[Assistant] And I, and uh, like I say, we make sure we take care. I mean, if like somebody blows up the engine, the engine having a bad month, they got laid off and uh, we pay for their rent, but we write the check too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't give it to the person, we give it to the complex, or we give it to the hospital, or we give it to the doctor. So that way I know the money's going where it's supposed to be going so they can get, take care of their problems.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we will, Jaco. Just keep doing what you're doing and I'll go keep him out of trouble. Yes, sir. Thank you very much for having me on. Thank you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I give you like a, out of 10, like a 3.2.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you design the, well you said you imported one from Pakistan? Yea. And then what'd you do, like cut it up and redesign it or something? Or did you send the design to them and they send you the finished product?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] OriginMain.com, speak of the devil.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hundred percent. Hundred percent now. Hundred percent. You know how you have like a hierarchy, you know? The hierarchy only has one gi now. But you have multiple selections though. Yeah, we do. So that's the thing. Boom, hierarchy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The merch, the merchandise side. And I do believe that it might be a little bit more work on Pete's and compared to on my end. A little bit. But hey, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when, so when you say tucked in, cause you don't really tuck in a rash guard, right? Or do you? You're talking about under the gi? Yeah. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Honey kettlebell, the gorilla, the ones I just ordered by the way. Legit, legit. They're shipped, they're on the way, tracking. Anyway, uhm, yeaah, that's the good ones. You do kettlebells?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do good in jujitsu, generally speaking, but if you want to do some kind of athletic competition, including, but not limited to jujitsu, it helps to be athletic. I'm kind of glad that you kind of hit him with that because when I said I stopped doing like legs and stuff like that, I got a lot


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you do stuff, you adjust to not use it, you know, and that's a deadlift. Yeah, because you don't use it anymore. So now when you do something, you're grabbing the cranberry juice from this side. You're going to put it over here. You had up on the floor. Yeah, you know, you're like, how did I do that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Try the kettlebells too. And if you want the cool ones, and when I say cool, it's like you look at them and they're cool. Yeah. Like, irrefutably cool. On it. That's the ones. The gorilla ones. Actually don't do the gorilla ones first. Do the chimp one first. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jump ropes, all kinds. Actually, it's kind of good you go in there and they have all kinds of workout stuff, like stuff. You know how, Brad, you know how when you get into a workout, maybe not you, you're not like this, but like I got into the kettlebells and it became fun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yea, that's a good one. Subscribe to YouTube. Also, Jocko is a store. It's called JockoStore. JockoStore.com. Guess what's on there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So now they have two options, huh? Jocko rash guards get after it. Trooper, uh, darkness rash guards and origin rash guards. Yeah. Just like that. The selection just vastly wide.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, hmm, psychological warfare. Previously, a few minutes ago, we talked about joint warfare for joint degeneration, inflammation, all that stuff. Overall, we'll generally, generally supplementation


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's basically like, okay, so I used to have this thing, used to, not anymore, have this thing where, you know, when you're like, okay, I'm, I'm working out this day, this day, you know, I'm jiu-jitsu this day, I work out this day, and when it comes time to work out, and I have a gym at my house now, so I'm like, ah, maybe I'll, I'll do it, I meant to do it at noon, I'm gonna do it tonight. I don't feel like doing it right, I'm gonna do it tonight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and it's again, it's not like a motivational thing. It's like, okay, this is, it's Jocko saying it. So, okay, there's that, but it's like, it's saying, okay, this is what's going on right now. This is what you're thinking right now. This is what you shouldn't be thinking right now. This is what you should be thinking right now. Okay. There you go. Go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yea, but keep in mind though with these tracks, you gotta be on that path though. It's not like you're like, hey, I eat too much, let me listen to this track. It's not that. It's like, okay, my plan is to straight up clean up my whole shit. Like, my plan is to-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, scarred mentally. Actually, well, what do we say? That's the freedom part. But the thing is you gotta be on the path. Right. So like, yeah, you know how they say discipline equals freedom, right? So, you know, you grab the ice cream.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nope, that's it. Pete the man. Great to finally meet you in person. I appreciate that. Right on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is Jocko Podcast number 102. With Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening.


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[Assistant] And we are rolling into some Q&A from the interwebs. So, let's go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think the answer is, actually I think when everyone thinks about the answer, I think it's pretty...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Self-evident, and I think a lot of people will agree with it. Okay, so is there ever a good time to use an ultimatum? I think sometimes there is, but it's seldom. It's actually very seldom. But when enough is truly enough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then you gotta draw the line, and you gotta hold the line, right? So you gotta make an ultimatum.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, what's interesting from a job perspective, so like in the workplace perspective,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's say up the chain of command, up the chain of command, it's not good, right? So, so let's say you're my boss and I come in and say echo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My chances of actually supporting what you're trying to make happen are very small. Because I'm actually mad at you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't want to support you. Oh, you're a big critical guy because you press record and you made some videos for me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, you're not. You're not giving yourself any room to maneuver. So that one generally doesn't work very well. Now, now if you have another job offer that someone's put in front of you, that's legit and it's good and it's solid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and you come into me and say, Hey Jocko, I got another job offer. They want an answer by Friday. Here's what they're going to pay me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not, this isn't a threat, I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm being straight up with you. But if you don't give me what I want by Friday, I'm gonna have to leave and go, cause I gotta, I gotta improve my future.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'd say, hey man, that sounds like a great deal working for them, go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? But that, so that's, that's an ultimatum, but it's a rational one. Right? Because you actually have a backup and you actually are trying to be straight forward with me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's an ultimatum, but it's like a logical one. Now, down the chain of command, people don't like ultimatums either. For instance,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So now I put a big ultimatum on you, and you don't like that anymore than the boss? People don't like having ultimatums put on them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What you really do, if you have to use ultimatums down the chain of command, you should check your leadership real, real quick. Because you've made some mistakes, right? People don't understand the deadlines, people don't understand what it is you want them to do, people don't understand why they're doing what they're doing, there's all kinds of things that they don't understand if you have to start throwing ultimatums around as a boss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So really, if you find yourself using ultimatums, then you need to check your leadership. Now, that being said, if you


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I've talked to you, if I've coached you, if I've counseled you, if I've done a written statement on you and told you exactly what it is that I need Echo to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now we've, we've passed the point of no return and I go, okay Echo, here's what I asked you to do. You didn't do it. This is the ultimatum. If you don't start making three videos a week, you are not gonna be here anymore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you'd say, you'd either say, okay, well, I'm gonna do it. Or, screw Jocko.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's a jerk. I'm outta here. Either way, I've moved forward. Because you weren't doing it before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's sort of, I know that that example is, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, ultimatums, be very, very careful. Make sure if you're gonna use it, it's gotta be real. You've gotta enforce it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And check yourself. Don't, don't, don't get yourself in a position where you can't maneuver anymore. That's the biggest, to me that's the biggest point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You never want to take away your ability to maneuver. You don't want to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so let's break those down. Number one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Should I go after them and try to fix the past either by revenge or something else? The answer to that, in my opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is no, man. Who cares? They're high school kids. Move on. Get on with your life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I actually had a couple conversations with, with, uh, my oldest daughters. Haven't had this one with my son yet, but my older daughters. Which is, hey look, these people that are around right now that you think are so important in high school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're not. You know, some of them might be, you might have some lifelong friends from high school. I get that. But these people that are not nice to you, you won't be thinking about them. So I don't, I'm not sure how old this individual is, but he's got a couple more years before he won't be thinking about these people anymore. So just get there earlier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Question two, should I remove them from social media and leave this Facebook group? Okay, this is a little bit tricky, in my opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know that I... Wait, who unfriended you? My wife.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so. I think you did it. Well, no, no, no, I didn't even know how to do it. No, no, you figured it out. No, I didn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Friends with my wife. And I said, w-w-w-wait, she's like showing me something. And she says, and I see Echo. And I said, why are you friends with people that, why are you friends with people that I know? Un, click, unfriend on that. And I didn't even know it was a big deal. I just thought, you know, hey, that means...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you say something to me like immediately? Or was it, did a month go by where I didn't make a joke about it? I forget, I forget. So, so it is kind of making a scene, if you, if you unfriend this person, or you leave the group, then you're just creating a little firestorm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, I will say this, if you can't, if you can't keep yourself from checking on them, then you might have to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, try it for a couple weeks, just say, I'm not looking at them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you can't do that, then delete them and leave the group or whatever. So, number three, should I attend the reunion? My answer to that is negative.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, why would you? These people are negative. They have, they, they bring back negative memories.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then the last question is, why have they even been in my life?


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[Assistant] Just like anything else bad that happens in life, the things that are bad that happen in life can either teach you or break you.


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[Assistant] That's what I would recommend. Don't worry about these people from the past. They're caught up in this weird world.


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[Assistant] High school. This is high school, right? We're caught up in high school world. Don't worry about high school.


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[Assistant] Get into the world. Yea. Right? Big time.


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[Assistant] I've had one daughter that now graduated from high school. I've got two kids in high school right now.


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[Assistant] Drama. There's drama. But actually, believe it or not, there hasn't been a lot of drama with my kids.


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[Assistant] But, but I see it. It does happen. And I remember the drama.


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[Assistant] Is there more drama in high school than there is in life?


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[Assistant] You know what I just thought of is, what's interesting about this is, if you're looking back on high school,


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[Assistant] More good stuffs gonna happen brother. Just move on and get after it.


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[Assistant] Do they know that? I don't think so. So they're not. I'm sure.


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[Assistant] It seemed like who was going to make a scene. I don't like to make a scene. So I'd be like, well, I'm just going to ignore it.


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[Assistant] Etiquette schools. I went to, I went to etiquette classes when I went to Austin candidate school in Pensacola, Florida and they teach you which knife to use, which fork to use and all that stuff and they teach you things. For instance, you might not know this, if you take a bite of food and there's something in that bite of food that you don't want to eat,


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[Assistant] A bone, a whatever. Uh huh. The way to properly


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[Assistant] Get it out of your mouth is to use your fork, put it on the fork and put it back down on the plate.


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[Assistant] You know, that's like, that's like, you know, that's, we focused on social media, but that's just about everything, right? Anything that you're caught up in. Yeah, yeah. Anything that you're caught up in.


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[Assistant] Whether it's a girl, whether it's the job you should have had, whether it's the investment you should have made, whether it's the house you didn't buy that you should have, all those things.


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[Assistant] Move on, man. It's gone. Move on. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] Uncle Rico, man, you sell him Tupperware, and it wasn't working out good for him. He, high school was still a big deal to him.


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[Assistant] Well, if you're at an MMA gym, they have brown belt. That's awesome. I turn to the brown belt. I think he's probably really good. I think it's probably fight oriented because it's in a fight to fight gym. Sure. Which is good in my opinion and


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[Assistant] You know, the fact of the matter is, and we've said this before, brown belt, purple belt, black belt,


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[Assistant] There's good teachers in all those. Blue belt, you know, borderline really. You can learn some good fundamentals from a solid blue belt though.


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[Assistant] But uhm, and also there's some black belts that are not good teachers. And there's some purple belts that are phenomenal teachers.


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[Assistant] So, yeah, go trade. I think that's a pretty simple question.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. You don't even know wha- You know what's interesting? You could probably barely tell.


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[Assistant] If you're a white belt and you roll with a purple belt and a black belt, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. All you know is you got your ass whooped. That's what you know. That's all you know. You don't know how easy it was for them because it's the same level for both, neither one of those people's trying hard against a white belt.


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[Assistant] And he was like, I taught him. And no, but that's something that Dean taught me, and I don't know who taught Noah, but it's just, that's the type of detail that you're talking about, where that is a small thing. You gotta be in jujitsu for, you gotta get a lot of other things right before someone says, hey, when you're arm-locking someone on the far side.


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[Assistant] A finish for Dean, or Dean was teaching me an armlock finish. And I would try it, and I would try it, and I would try it, and I would try it.


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[Assistant] And it would never work. I tried it on him 50 times. And finally one day he says, hey, when you do that move, put the pressure here instead of here. The next time I did it to him worked.


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[Assistant] You know what I mean? Then one little detail.


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[Assistant] And he said, hey, you're putting your pressure here. He showed me where I was putting the pressure. He said, put it here. And I was like, hm.


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[Assistant] Next time I did it to him, he's like, that hurts so bad. So it's weird. It's the little details that, again, the better the instructor is, the more details you're gonna get. And, most, well, what's important about this is, until you are, get to a certain level,


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[Assistant] The other five you have to figure out because it's where you're putting your weight and it's where you're putting your balance. Dean might be able to teach you seven. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] Maybe, maybe if you take a different class, Andy will teach you an eighth one. But there's things that you have to figure out on your own, on top of the things that you can be shown.


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[Assistant] Cause that's the only way you figure out if it actually works or not and what little adjustments you have to make.


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[Assistant] When I saw that question I was, ooh, that's a good point. And that's a good, there's a very important distinction there because I'm always saying play the game.