[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you're the driver, you're that final link in the chain that needs to go out there and get the job done. So, at the beginning it was definitely very overwhelming, and uhm, I do think that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, on and off the track, the circus, the driving, I think the whole, the whole package. Uhm, and I think over the last couple of years I've, I've...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've adopted and I've learned a lot about what I need to be competitive and how I can manage, you know, Formula One.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, at the beginning I definitely was, I was very overwhelmed and I think over time I've created my own little bubble of people that I, you know, that I listen to and that I trust and, and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, absolutely. Uhm, it's definitely, uh...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, uh, that I think, I think Formula One has taught me so much about racing, but it was about life as well, uhm, just to overcome adversity and, uhm, and manage, you know, emotions and, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and to dedicate myself to something and challenge myself and push myself. You know, Formula One's forced me to push myself beyond.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, limits that I didn't think I, I, I could go and, you know, that's, that's technically and that's, you know, physically, mentally, uhm, and in all different kinds of ways. So, yeaah, it's, uh, you know, it's definitely, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's definitely aged me a few, a few more years. Uhm, but you know, that's what makes it so incredible. Like I said earlier, it's just that, that constant challenge and that, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the, the, the whole journey, uhm, working with all these incredible engineers that, you know, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, struggles or, you know, challenging times, traveling around, jet lag, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of time in the gym, a lot of, uh, you know, there, there is a lot of sacrifice, uhm, for sure. There is a lot of sacrifice and, you know, that's, that comes with being, uhm, a professional athlete. I'm sure in any sport it's the same, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, probably people don't always see that, but at the same time, uhm, I think that that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess what I call sacrifice has to be a part of the joy of being in Formula One and, you know, the joy of being an athlete is, you know, there is a lot of dedication, there is a lot of sacrifice that comes with that process.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, for sure, at times it sucks, at times, you know, I wake up in the morning and I don't feel like, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, going to the gym or I don't feel like, uh, you know, going to the factory and driving the simulator at...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, 7 o'clock in the morning. I mean, like, it's, you know, there's, there's, on a Tuesday after a Grand Prix weekend when I'm tired, you know, there, there is times like that, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I said, you know, when, when those, those glory, uhm, glory moments do come, uhm, like being on pole, like standing on a podium and just having a great result and everything comes together, uhm, it's all, it's all worth it and, uhm, that's what keeps bringing me back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that there's respect away from the track and you can be good friends, there's no reason why not. Uh, with Esteban, you know, I consider him a very good friend off the track and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever happens on the track happens on the track and when we're off the track, you know, we're, we're buddies and uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's been like that and I think it will always be like that, you know. There's no reason why it doesn't have to be. You know, we fight so hard, we battle so hard on the track.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we have our helmets on, you know, we are competitors and everyone wants to beat everyone else, but uhm, away from the track, uhm, I think it's important to disconnect and, you know, and yeah, and forget about all that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I tried to kind of forget about that day, it was a terrible day, and uhm, yeah, I mean.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things go wrong, uh, that was one of those days where things went wrong and, uhm, just luckily, uh, you know, we, we all walked away from it okay and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I wasn't hurt or anything like that, so I was very fortunate to get away with that one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, taming myself and keeping myself together. I think I was very impatient that season to get my first win and I knew that I was capable of getting it and I had the speed to do it and everything was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of those crashes came down to just being a little bit too eager for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That definitely was something that I learned that season, but I recovered towards the end of the season. The last few races of that season were much better for me. That was, that was definitely a big learning lesson in my racing career. Just, uhm, yeaah, just, just calming, calming myself down a bit and, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think just having a bit more patience in that season, I was a little bit impatient in many of the races.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I, I caused a lot of accidents because of that, for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good results comes confidence. I was definitely very confident, uh, that, that year and I did feel like I was one step ahead of everyone else that season because I kept proving it to myself. I kept proving to myself that I was, you know, uh, winning races and, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Constantly on pole, and that just builds confidence, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I kept reassuring myself that I was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That I was, that I was better than the rest and, uh, yeaah, that was, that was great. But did I ever feel invincible? No, I mean, you know, I, I always, I recognize that there's, you know, there's plenty of talent out there and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, on someone else's good day, they'll beat me and it's as simple as that. So uhm, I try, I try and always stay humble as a, as a person, as a driver. You know, you never want to be overly confident about anything because, you know, you can always be, uh, surprised, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, no, it was just a great season in general, you know, I was, I was at one with the car, and uhm, you know, I, I was, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a very good relationship with the team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone really supported me that year in Prema. We made a great team all together and because of that we had a great season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I believe I came back into 2016 as a probably much more mature driver and I learned from my mistakes from 2015 and that really contributed to my championship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For my sixth birthday, my dad bought me a little go-kart, and uhm, we have a track, uh, we own a track, uh, up in Canada, outside of Montreal, a little place called Mont-Tremblant, and uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, you're not that old. You're not that old. Uhm, I was far from born though on the other hand. Uhm, yeaah, that was way before my time. But anyways, uhm, no, so, uh, my dad bought me a little go-kart when I was six. And uhm, yeaah, I was always very passionate about racing and stuff. We'd watch Formula One together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, it was, it was, it was running through the family. Uhm, so, brought my little go-kart at six, we set up some cones in the parking lot of the racetrack, and I, I just, I drove around like all summer, uhm, just around the cones, and just, there's just a little, uh, go-kart, it's like four stroke, small engine, uhm, I was six, so it was really just,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was, I was probably when I moved to Europe with my family, I was 12.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, internationally in, in, in, in go-karts, because it was much more competitive. The first few years I raced in Canada, it was competitive, but if you want to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want to compete against the best, you have to come to Europe and that's where all the best drivers in the world, uh, you know, from 12 years old onwards, uh, compete. So uhm, when we made that commitment, that's, that's when it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can't take things too seriously at that age. Uh, and I think that when I was in Formula 3 and I was winning races and yeaah, I signed with Williams that year to be there. I think it was reserved. No, it's not their reserved driver. It was their like junior driver. Uhm, I knew that there was an opportunity to go to Formula 1 and uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] contributed and they've all, they've all supported me and been there with me, uhm, throughout the journey and it's thanks to them, uhm, that I am where I am today.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I think I've learned to kind of embrace it and use it as like, you know, energy, uhm, to prove people wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I, you know, I love that, you know, I think that that's, that's, that's powerful, you know, it's powerful to use it as fuel and, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I've always said to myself, I'll just do my talking on the track and, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, it's always been like that since day one because of where I come from and my background. You know, there's, there's a lot of people that I guess probably hope that I don't do so well and they hope that I fail. Uhm, and that's okay, you know, everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. Uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, at the end of the day, I, I just do my talking on the track and, you know, I won those championships leading up to Formula One, Formula Four, Formula Three, uhm, I won the Toyota Racing Series in New Zealand, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's a decent CV. And in Formula 1, you know, I've been on the podium, I've, you know, been on, been on pole and, you know, I've had many good races. My consistency hasn't been the best, I'm aware of that. That's something that I'm still working on. Uhm, in the last couple of years I definitely think that my consistency can be, can be better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there was a year at Williams where I was in a pretty bad car, so that was a tough year for me, but, you know, I've proved as well in Formula One that, you know, uhm, that, that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I deserve to be here, and uhm, and it's always, it's always gonna be the same, I think, you know, I've recognized that, it's when you do bad, people start talking bad, and when you do well, you know, everyone's, everyone's right there, everyone wants a piece of the pie, so, it's all part of the circus.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To read too much of what's going on in the media, uhm, it's a lot of noise and, uhm, yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's kind of a waste of my time to be honest, so, you know, I, I don't know all the, all the details to that, to that question. I couldn't, I couldn't answer it for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I mean, I have a great relationship with him, uh, away from the track, you know, as a dad, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, because he's a good boss. So uhm, you know, he's been extremely successful in so many of his businesses. In the fashion industry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then whatever he's, he's picked up, he's been successful at.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's been the same in Formula One, you know, where we were this time last year as a team, uhm, even before this time last year, at the beginning of last year, and where we are now. It goes to show how much progression and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's thanks to him, that's thanks to him, uh, oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For sure, we've been on this journey together from the start and we're still on it, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he's, he's, he doesn't, no, he doesn't put pressure on me because he supports me when it, you know, through the, through the hard times as much as the good times and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, that's, I think that that's what, what family does, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's, it's, it's a bigger picture than just racing. It's, you know, it's a, it's a father and son journey. It's a family journey. Like I said, we've all been on it together and, uhm, he's had my back through the, through the highs and, and through the lows and, you know, that, uhm, that says it all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where they both won when I was, I was young, I was, I think I was, it was 2000.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 2007, then 2012, we've always been big fans, and uhm, we were both Super Bowls, so that was pretty cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Globe, it's amazing sometimes when we're in the middle of, I don't know, like Russia or


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, wherever we go, sometimes we're in the weirdest places and I'll just like see like some Canadian flags and I'll stop and, you know, start talking to the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To the people and like, they're like, oh, we came all the way from Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver. You know, we're here. We go to every race. They're like, it's just crazy. Like, you know, there's people that they just love it. They love the excitement. They love the sport.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's so great to see, you know, that's what makes Formula One so amazing is there's, you know, fans all across the globe that even, you know, they travel around the world and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, environment, it's amazing, it's incredible. In Montreal, it definitely is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the most special race of the season for me. Uh, it was, it was a shame to see it didn't happen this year. I was really looking forward to it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, uh, when I turn, when I show up to the track, all the support, uhm, all the energy, it's, it really is amazing. I remember when I scored my first point there, my first points, I finished 9th in 2017, the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I think there was a video that my friend took, he was in the grandstand and I overtook Fernando Alonso in that race to get my first points and the reaction of the grandstand was incredible and everyone was up on their feet and hundreds of thousands of people and you know, that is touching.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's, it's, it's, it's an honor to, to support my country and what I do and, um, to have the support, to have, you know, fans that are so into Formula One and they, they really love the sport. Every time, every year we go to Montreal, we all feel it. You know, the fans really get into it. They love Formula One. They love the action and, um, that's what makes it so great. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, you know, I love going home and the last couple of years I've even had my grandstand, the Lance Troll grandstand and the hairpin. Everyone wears a Lance Troll t-shirt and that's been pretty cool to have that support, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, uhm, there's definitely a lot of support back home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, you know, I, I love it. I really appreciate everyone, everyone being there and, uh, you know, supporting me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I mean, it'll definitely look good in green. Green, pink, whatever it's gonna be, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think as long as it's fast, you know, this year it's pink. I didn't like the pink at the beginning, but it's grown on me as the car's gotten better, as we've gotten more downforce on the car. Uhm, I love the pink now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] High expectations, uhm, you know, uh, for sure I think we can improve. There's definitely areas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I look at, aside from the car, you know, I think this year could have been much better for me. If I look back at Monza, I think you're sitting in fourth in the World Championship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With 57 points and now I've had like 5 or 6 really bad races and I've only scored 2 points since then and I fell to like 10th or 11th in the World Championship. So uhm, that goes to show that there's definitely a lot more uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, that, that I can achieve, you know, and, and that, that motivates me for next year. But, you know, for, as a team and, uhm, and the whole car, you know, I definitely think we can improve. I think we can progress on where we are this year. There's, there's areas that we know, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The car is a little bit weak and we're gonna address some of that over the winter and uhm, and come back stronger next year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, no, he's, I mean, he's a, you know, an incredibly, you know, joking aside, he's an incredibly talented driver.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I really look forward to working alongside him. I think he's going to be a great asset to the team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, for sure, I mean, you know, Sergio's been a great teammate and, uh, you know, we've, we've, we've had, had some fun over the last couple of years, uhm, being on the same team together and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, uh, yeaah, it's like that, I mean.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Teammates don't always hang out forever, I guess, so uhm, I wish him all the best and wherever life takes him from here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's my favorite Bond car? The old one that he drives in Casino Royale. He drives that like old one. Oh I don't know. It's a 85.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Welcome everyone to Beyond the Grid with me, Tom Clarkson. My guest this week is a man who's just driven the race of his life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He ran in a very assured third place for the early part of the Hungarian Grand Prix, before coming home in seventh place to take his first points in Formula One. The man I'm talking about is of course, Williams driver, Nicolas Latifi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Best ever Grand Prix finish for Nicholas Latifi. Points for the Williams team as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What a week to have Nicky on the show, although I did the interview before Sunday's race. So we didn't get to talk about his giant killing performance. So let me remind you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Niki dodged the turn one carnage at the Hungaro Ring to emerge in third place, where he stayed until his pit stop on lap 23, all the while looking assured and confident despite having faster cars all around him. It was a breakthrough moment for the 26 year old Canadian,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it couldn't have come at a better time as Williams set about deciding on their 2022 driver line-up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But even without that performance in Hungary, Nicky's story is an intriguing one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He didn't grow up in a racing family and how he got started in motorsport is a great lesson. And of course, once he got started, he then made the move to Europe with all of the anguish and sacrifice that comes with living in a different continent to your family and friends when you're just a teenager.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He reveals all in this chat while also shedding light on his approach to racing against the big guns in Formula One and how he tries to get the best from Williams and how he goes about trying to beat his highly rated teammate, George Russell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've always found Nicky to be an engaging and interesting character and he lives up to that billing here. I hope you enjoy our conversation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, being serious, do you wish you could keep racing or are you actually quite welcoming the brakes?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well on the subject of holidays, what is the best form of relaxation? What goes on? How do you relax?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you don't want to give any numbers out, but I'm quite interested to know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. Now, what about other sports during the break? I mean, you're a basketball fan, do you still play?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have you taken up any other hobbies? Cause we had Charles Leclerc on the podcast the other week and he was telling us he's a mad keen chess player. He started playing paddle again. Have you played paddle?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I definitely need to play, but do you uhm, have you taken up anything? Do you, what do you? Uhm, do you and George play anything together? No, I mean to be honest,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now here's the thing, a lot of people say to me


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you cart, and I occasionally do a bit of indoor carting, and they said, do you talk to the Formula One drivers about how similar carting is?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now look, I saw a picture before the Hungarian Grand Prix of you on a, I think it was a tank.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you learn anything when it came to communication?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nicholas, I've got to interrupt you because while we're talking about radio communications, I can't stop thinking about Baku.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We want you to take a break too. That's right. Stop for a minute. Unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders and take a deep breath.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here at Beyond the Grid, we're proud to be partnering with Calm, the number one mental wellness app to help give you the tools that improve the way you feel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sometimes when I'm on a flight or back at my hotel after the excitement of a Grand Prix weekend, I find it difficult to switch off and get to sleep. I'm still wired. But with Calm, you can clear your head.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nick, let's talk now about 2021 because it seems to me you've taken a huge step forward compared to last year, particularly over one lap. Is that how you see it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, crikey. There's a lot of juggling to do. You're now 28 races into your career. How much more confident?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How different is the team now to the one that you first joined back in 2019?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And do you feel that Yost treats you identically to George, George Russell?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't just mean in terms of number one and number two, just in terms of your relationship with him. I mean, do you feel it is as good as George's?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is he very performance driven in that, does he set you goals? So I want you to be at this point by this stage in the season in terms of maybe whether it's the gap to George or in terms of championship finishing positions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when you look at the data, just while we're talking about George, where is he finding the time over you in Qualley?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's fascinating, isn't it? Is he the best teammate you've ever had? And you've had some really good ones. Esteban Ocon in the junior formulas, Alex Albon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a great reference. For everybody, all his teammates, it's going to be the same, isn't it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll be back with Nicholas in a moment when he talks about his early career, and that's relevant to what's coming now. Because in the past, I've heard Nicky say that starting in karts at a later age than most of his rivals,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With his rising success in the sport, it just goes to show that dedicating yourself to learning a new skill can pay dividends later on, no matter when you pick it up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So why not take the time to try something new today with Babbel?


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I also like the fact that the lessons focus on real world conversations, things you'll get to use in everyday life. It feels much more chatty and natural, and that's down to the fact that the lessons were lovingly created by more than 100 language experts. There isn't an AI bot in sight, which gives it that extra human touch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Babbel is available as an app or online, so no matter where you are, your progress will be synced across all of your devices. And we know you're a fan of podcasts, so you might want to check out their newly launched learning podcasts as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] While we're talking junior formulas or mentioning them, can I ask you two questions? One is, you did four seasons in, what was it, GP2, F2, for the same team. Now I'm imagining I'm your manager for a second and I'm thinking,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why am I keeping you at the same team for four years? What was the thinking behind that? I'm genuinely fascinated to know why you didn't maybe try and switch to Prima in F2 or...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've got another question, uh, about your junior career and I wanna go-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even further back to 2013 because you did the Toyota racing series in New Zealand. I've always wanted to know what that's like. Just as a championship and as a young guy going to New Zealand, what do you get up to between the races and how much fun do you have really?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Camaraderie, camaraderie, that's the one. I'm thinking Tasman series from back in the day when a lot of the European drivers went over and all I see, I see as many pictures of them on the beach and having a great time as I do them actually driving racing cars.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool, what a great experience. How tough was it then? Let's talk about leaving home and


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[Assistant] How tough was it to go and live in Europe thousands of miles away from your family?


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[Assistant] Right there. The goal was Formula One, yet North America


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[Assistant] There's a, there's a great following for IndyCar and other forms of open wheel racing. Where did the passion for Formula One come from?


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[Assistant] Because there's even an IndyCar race, or there was in Toronto. Yes. Your home city. So why Formula One?


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[Assistant] Cool. But are there other members of your family who are into racing or was it a new thing that came from you and you were pestering your parents to say this is what I want to do?


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[Assistant] And how dedicated a Formula One fan were you back then? Would you, living in Toronto, I don't know what the time difference is to the UK, what is it, eight hours? Five hours. Five hours. Would you get up in the middle of the night to watch practice sessions?


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[Assistant] And then going back to, um, homesickness and you being in Europe and the, did the family stay in its entirety in Canada or did some, did mom or dad travel with you?


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[Assistant] Daniel has openly admitted this year that he's really struggled with not getting back to Australia since pre-pandemic. Same with me, I haven't been back to Canada. Have you struggled with it as much as him?


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[Assistant] You did mention your dad. As you said, very busy man, very successful man.


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[Assistant] Has there ever been any pressure from him to go and get involved in the business? Where is he with that?


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[Assistant] Well, it's been so brilliant to chat to you. I know that you've got a load of stuff you need to go and do. So thank you for your time. I've got one last question. Yep. Which is...


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[Assistant] What are the older generation, in Hungary, Alonso's 40th birthday, etc. What are the older generation like with you, the younger generation, someone like Alonso?


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[Assistant] But I mean, those were guys that, what, were they, were they heroes of yours when you were watching or not watching? I can't remember where we left that bit of the conversation.


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[Assistant] Best of luck with everything that comes your way. Thank you. Thank you for your time and speak to you very soon. Thank you.


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[Assistant] What a wonderful chat. I told you Nicky's an engaging guy and he really delivered.


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[Assistant] I came away from an hour sat with him, really appreciating two things. First, his passion for the sport and second,


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[Assistant] His racing brain. How he navigated his way through the junior formulas when he had no family members to guide him was really interesting. And the reasons for his loyalty to dams in Formula 2 were a prime example of that.


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[Assistant] And how he works with the people around him now in order to maximise his chances in Formula One is the mark of a guy with maturity well beyond his 26 years.


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[Assistant] Nikki, many thanks for your time. It was great to catch up and I wished you every success in the second half of the season. Until then, enjoy the break.


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[Assistant] And before we move on, don't forget to send in any stories or thoughts that you have on Nicky. Were you at the Hungara Ring last weekend to witness him getting his first points? Well, let me know and remember, I'll read out the best ones next week. Send them to me at Tom Clarkson F1 or use the hashtag F1 beyond the group.


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[Assistant] Which brings me on to what you sent in about Daniele Aldetto after last week's show. A lot of you got in touch to say how much you enjoyed that episode and Daniele certainly had some good stories to tell, didn't he? Aniel Bedi got in touch with this.


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[Assistant] Daniele Aldetto was incredible. Every word he said was so fascinating that I now have to listen to the whole episode again. Well, Anil, I'm glad you enjoyed it. And I do agree with you. He shone new light on mid seventies Formula One.


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[Assistant] And Otto Breisfert got in touch with this. I've listened to all of the Beyond the Grid episodes and this one was the best. The storytelling and the opportunity to learn about what happened behind the scenes at Ferrari at the Nurburgring in 76 and during Nicky's recovery.


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[Assistant] Was incredible. Thank you for making Formula One even more fun.


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[Assistant] And thanks for your thoughts on the episode with Daniele as well. I wholeheartedly agree with you. Daniele is a great guy who shed lots of light on that weekend at the Nürburgring 45 years ago.


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[Assistant] His stories about Mr Ferrari were hilarious. Well, thanks Ashley for getting in touch. I too loved his tales about Enzo, and if I had a time machine and could speak to anyone from Formula One history on Beyond the Grid,


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[Assistant] Mr Ferrari would be my choice. What a legend!


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[Assistant] And finally this from Alexis Ferraris. What a podcast with Daniele Aldetto. Scoop after scoop. He fired up my imagination with his fantastic storytelling. Thank you, Tom. No, thank you Alexis for getting in touch. It was great to hear that you enjoyed the episode so much.


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[Assistant] Now lots of you got in touch, but we'll have to leave it there. So thank you to everybody who sent messages in and that's it guys for another week. I hope you enjoyed hearing from Nicholas and remember to send in your thoughts and stories on him.


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[Assistant] And as ever, I'll be back in just seven sleeps with another great guest from the world of Formula One. So see you then.


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[Assistant] Beyond the Grid is produced by F1 in association with AudioBoom. Until next time, keep it flat out.


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[Assistant] I know 30 years, that's utterly bizarre. And you know, it seems like another life, which in many ways it was. When I reflect on it, it was great fondness. I loved my career. It taught me a hell of a lot and it was just a fantastic experience. And you know, anybody who gets into


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[Assistant] Emotional feelings about the sport changed when I was a professional, but it was an enormous part of my life. And you know, I made mistakes.


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[Assistant] You reach a high level of resilience. Think about the way that people start out. You know, people start racing either in club racing or in karting. And you know, when you're racing karts, you're looking after your own machinery.


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[Assistant] And it's real proper grassroots racing. There's a massive amount of camaraderie. People help each other out. People share information about circuits.


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[Assistant] Share information about the technical setups of their machines. And you know, I used to go racing with my mates and it was a really bonding experience.


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[Assistant] Then as I progressed through the ranks up into the higher formulas, I just gained an enormous amount of experience in terms of


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[Assistant] Dealing with people and being self-sufficient and it's just enormously valuable and it's irreplaceable really, you know, and I'm sure that people in other sports have similar feelings about that because we all have to start somewhere, don't we?


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[Assistant] The engine doesn't blow up because it's got so much boost.


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[Assistant] No, what goes through your mind, it's a massive amount of focus. You know, you're in the Walmart lab.


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[Assistant] And very aware that I want to get the warm up lap right. And in qualifying, that's mostly about getting the right amount of temperature in the tires. And you just gotta nail it. You just got to nail it. And you know, where there are corners,


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[Assistant] That are difficult, maybe in a race spec, you can be considerably quicker in those corners in qualifying trim and you just gotta take the car by the scruff of the neck and uhm, just get on it.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but listen, I don't want to make excuses. I mean, Berg is right. They were monsters, those cars. They were ridiculous.


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[Assistant] But you know, they were also incredibly exhilarating to drive and yeah, it was a compromising situation at Lotus and I would have been better off probably beginning my career with another team, but didn't happen, did it?


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[Assistant] And Sanna, Sanna had the entire team around him, but you know, I had a great relationship with my race engineer, Tim Demcham, and uhm, you know, it wasn't easy driving alongside Sanna. It wasn't. But, you know, there you go, I had my chance, and it didn't really work out for me in F1, so there you go.


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[Assistant] The opportunity came about through my performance in 1984 in the British Formula 3 Championship and then what was then known as the European F3 Championship. I won the British in 84 and I was a very close runner up to Ivan Capelli in the European.


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[Assistant] So I gave a good account of myself in a domestic and effectively an international championship. Now having said that,


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[Assistant] You know, obviously, you know, we were talking about 160 brake horsepower Formula 3 cars. There's a huge step into F1 and there was a quite a lot of interest in me.


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[Assistant] From various F1 teams and Lotus gave me a test and test was at Donington and it went well. There was a spot that came available at Lotus. I know that Derek Warwick was lined up for that.


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[Assistant] And to be quite honest with you, looking back on it and looking at the circumstances and looking at my experience at the time, they would have been better off giving that drive to Warwick. And I would have been better off having had a better year in 85 because it was the end of formula two, as you remember.


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[Assistant] And beginning of Formula 3000 and Formula 3000 in 1985 was an absolute joke.


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[Assistant] And I didn't have a decent drive, so I didn't give good account of myself and I didn't have enough experience with more horsepower. But the Lotus drive fell into my lap and I wasn't going to turn it down, was I?


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[Assistant] Well, let's put that into context. The McLaren drive was the prize-winning championship and the Williams drive was a very last-minute thing where


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[Assistant] Williams had a VIP who they wanted to drive that Cosworth engine car, which was a superb little car. It was the car that Rosberg won the championship in, wasn't it?


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[Assistant] Yeah, it was the 08, and that was at Donington, and...


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[Assistant] I didn't have a seat fitting or anything and they asked me to give it a, like to warm it up.


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[Assistant] The Brabham test was a proper test and that was down at Kyle Army and I didn't get to drive the Ferrari until I'd signed a testing contract with them. I never should have signed that testing contract with them. It was a big mistake.


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[Assistant] Because it led nowhere and I had other options that would have been much better for my career.


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[Assistant] Absolutely. And I had advisors at the time and I didn't have a manager at the time, Tom, but I had advisors at the time.


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[Assistant] So as I said, it was the four-cylinder engine development program. And that was all linked to the regulations that all the teams thought were going to come into force and those regulations didn't. And they shelved the program.


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[Assistant] And I think I only went there maybe half a dozen times.


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[Assistant] That was incredible. The facility is amazing. The only F1 team with its own test track. And then the history, you know, the history is inescapable. You know, the whole place, the whole area, town of Modena, it's all about Ferrari.


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[Assistant] The office is quite sort of bare. It's just, he is there, you know, the man's there. And, um, no, we had a very quick interview and Piccinini was translating and he signed a copy of his book, uh, Pilate che genti for me and, um, sent me on my way.


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[Assistant] I think it was always the wrong decision. But if the engine program hadn't been shelved, it could have worked out differently. Who knows?


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[Assistant] To go and drive the camera car down in Melbourne at the 1000km race there, at the old Sandown Park, which is literally the worst race circuit I've ever driven by the way.


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[Assistant] Yeah it was, and I wasn't keen on it at all. It felt horribly claustrophobic.


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[Assistant] So I said yeaah, I'd love to meet Bernie, but I'm in Australia, I'll go and see him as soon as I get back, because shortly after I was due to get back.


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[Assistant] The Kyle army test was starting. So I think it was a weekend and they were around to Bernie's flat at that time, which was on that, um, that apartment building and the corner of London embankment. And there he was and he was incredibly, incredibly.


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[Assistant] Friendly and uhm, he said to me, well, you've got to sign a testing contract with me if you want to drive one of my cars. You know, if we agree that nothing happens after that, I give you my word that I'll rip up the contract.


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[Assistant] So I said fine, okay. So I signed the contract and I went down to Kailami and I did the test


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[Assistant] And uh, PK was there, and TF-RB, and that was a great experience. That was a monster, that car. It had terrible turbo lag.


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[Assistant] I can't remember whether I was working for a particular program. It was a Pirelli tire test as I recall. I did get a decent amount of mileage. I don't remember setting the world on fire with my lap times to be honest with you. I think if I had done, I'm sure I would remember Tom and I'd be telling you about it now.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I was offered that drive and, um, yeah, I probably should have taken that, but I, I really felt that I had, um, an obligation to BP in Formula 3. They had a relationship with Dave Price Racing.


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[Assistant] I had a very close relationship with Dave, uhm, we're still really good friends and


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[Assistant] The relationship between David Price Racing and Les Stacker at BP was a very strong relationship and I felt morally obliged to honor my commitments there.


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[Assistant] And I'd spoken to Les about it. And as I recall, Les said to me, well, I wouldn't stand in your way, but we look like we're going to win this championship. And I really don't want that to stop.


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[Assistant] It is a big call, yeaah. It is a big call. And apparently I think that Tyrrell was a pretty good car. I think the other factor, Tom, as I recall,


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[Assistant] Is there weren't many Grand Prix's remaining on slow circuits where I could have shone? Because the turbo cars were just destroying that thing on the quick circuits, weren't they?


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[Assistant] Yeah, I was reasonably confident, yeah. But I didn't do myself any favors by not having a manager.


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[Assistant] Yeah, there you have, and you need good advice. I think drivers at a young age.


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[Assistant] Who have good pragmatic outlook and a good level of self-confidence are probably better at choosing, you know, who they want to be associated with.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I was quite wary of him, you know, his reputation as somebody who was quite obsessively focused on his own.


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[Assistant] Path and not particularly friendly was already there, that those characteristics were already there. So, you know, it's not like I felt like I even knew him particularly well because, you know, even when he was in lower formulas, he was very aloof. That was part of his persona.


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[Assistant] Not completely, but on occasions it was. I remember when, before the British Grand Prix and we were, I think in the first untimed session at Brands, I was quicker than him.


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[Assistant] And it didn't take long, it didn't take long for his race engineer to come over to Tim and say, let's have a look at your setup.


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[Assistant] Did you learn anything off Ayrton? No, not really. But having observed him, I'll never forget in winter testing before the 1983


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[Assistant] Formula 3 season, which was my first season, uh, where I showed a lot of promise and actually we didn't complete the season because my sponsorship money dried up. But Dave Morgan, who was running the team, who was a fantastic guy, really incredibly nice man, but also extremely good at


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[Assistant] Cold, drizzly, horrible test day at Silverstone and we were looking at the time sheets and Dave said to me,


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[Assistant] See all these names here? Forget about all of them apart from Brundle and Senna. It was that obvious. Yeah, their performance was that obvious. But it's about focusing on what matters and just always aiming to be the best.


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[Assistant] We didn't have equal kit. If you remember at the beginning of the season, I had a lot of DNFs. Almost all of them were down to the gearbox and I was developing the new six speed gearbox and it was a disaster. And in the end, we,


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[Assistant] We discovered what it was and those Hewland gearboxes were made in two halves and there was a longitudinal seam down the middle of it and they discovered that the casting was flawed and one side of the casting


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[Assistant] Was much thinner than the other side of the casting because I remember in a test at Paul Ricard early on, the whole casing split because the gearbox had flexed because the casting wasn't man enough for the job. So we were kind of.


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[Assistant] Wondering whether I, I was damaging the equipment or not. But you know, when we discovered what the problem was, it was okay. But you know, I had a lot of DNS at the beginning of the season. And, and I think the other thing Tom's really is I didn't put it on the line enough.


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[Assistant] I was very conscious of not wanting to be the rookie driver who kept stuffing the car into the Armco barriers. You know, it's important to finish.


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[Assistant] It's also important to make a decision about when it should be put on the line and when a bit of caution should be added.


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[Assistant] It does. And you, if you look at drivers like Prost and Lauda, they often really sacrificed things in qualifying. They sacrificed grid placings in qualifying to get what they knew would be a good setup in order to get the results that they needed to accumulate points.


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[Assistant] I think it was quite daunting with my experience to step into F1 and you're in the spotlight, particularly the spotlight shone brighter because I was Senna's teammate. So yeah, I think I, I think I was a bit over-faced by it, to be honest with you, being really honest with myself.


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[Assistant] In bigger horsepower cars, it would have been better for me. Definitely. I was short on experience and I think my confidence suffered because of that.


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[Assistant] Uhm, not particularly. I was pretty friendly with Berger because we'd raced against each other in F3. Mansell was always really nice and friendly with me. There was a bit of tension between Derek Warwick and I because, you know, he felt that I pinched his drive.


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[Assistant] Very focused on being friendly with the other drivers.


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[Assistant] I would have signed a testing contract, a long-term testing contract with Bernie and done Formula 3000 with Mike Earl at Onyx Racing, which Bernie offered to me at the time. That drive was on the cards with a testing contract and I turned it down to go to the Ferrari testing contract. That for me was the pivotal moment. Bloody stupid decision.


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[Assistant] Sometimes people send it to me, and I watch it sometimes, not very often, and I invariably think, no, it definitely should have been quicker through that corner.


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[Assistant] There wasn't much on the cards. I probably should have looked closer at going to Japan and doing the, uh, the Japanese F2 or F3000. I can't remember when Japan switched into 3000. You know, the money was very good there. It was a good lifestyle.


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[Assistant] And it would have been great experience.


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[Assistant] I definitely thought IndyCar was an option.


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[Assistant] There wasn't a whole lot of offers, but I did get some really excellent drives. Well, I had one great result in IMSA driving for the Dyson team. I drove for Sauber.


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[Assistant] Lamar broke the lap record which stood for a few years and I was quick in that car and I drove for Richard Lloyd at Brands Hatch.


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[Assistant] And we finished second and that result materialized in the Jaguar Drive.


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[Assistant] And it had come back to me that Tom was of the opinion that I was a crasher.


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[Assistant] And then I, I had a great result at Brands driving with Baldy and we.


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[Assistant] We finished second in the thousand kilometer race and split the two of the Jaguars. And do you remember at Brands, you had to walk.


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[Assistant] Across the pit straight to get to the, um, through the tunnel, the press center after the race. Yeah. And I was walking just, I was on my own. I was just walking across the track and suddenly Tom kind of materialized at my side.


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[Assistant] And said to me, if you want to talk to me about a drive, give me a call. And then he walked off.


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[Assistant] I'm definitely making that call. How quickly did you make it? Yea, probably the next day.


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[Assistant] Once anybody's been in F1, they've got to be hoping they get back in, and I was as well. It's not easy.


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[Assistant] It's not easy to be out of F1 and get back into it. And some people have done it very successfully, uh, and others haven't. So.


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[Assistant] You know, I took what was on offer and I had some good drives in 87 and I actually started enjoying the, the endurance racing. It took me a while to get used to being in an enclosed cockpit.


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[Assistant] I didn't really like that, but once you get used to it it's fine.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's a little challenging as well after having spent the whole of one's career in single-seaters. But you know, Jaguar ended up with Jan Lammers, who's still a very good friend of mine, and he's an excellent driver.


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[Assistant] With a lot of experience. So, you know, to have a teammate like that is good. And they were at TWR, were a fantastic outfit.


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[Assistant] They're a really good team. Super professional.


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[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely like a Formula One team. You know, Tom Wilkinshaw really knew how to run a race team. And, you know, I, and as I said, I drove for Sauber in 87 and that was a fantastic car.


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[Assistant] The team was a bit of a shambles to be quite honest with you. I mean, they were very, very nice people, but from a professional point of view, the team were a bit of a shambles.


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[Assistant] And living in the country, my father taught me how to drive when I was very young.


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[Assistant] The family business at an early age and that's what he did. He, he ran the family businesses and he was a businessman.


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[Assistant] But we were brought up in country at that time, you know, in the sixties and the early seventies with huge freedom. A lot of the restrictions that exist in modern day life just didn't exist then. And we were in this very rural environment and you know, me and my mates had


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[Assistant] Strip down scooters and cars that we'd bought from the local scrap man. We were tearing it up around the moors and uhm, making ourselves really unpopular by tearing it up in fields and doing massive handbrake turns everywhere.


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[Assistant] So that's where it came from, you know, and driving kind of represented freedom.


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[Assistant] In my late teens, I was living in London.


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[Assistant] And I was working. I left school after my O levels and I was working. I had lots of different jobs. I worked on building sites. I was a painter and decorator with a mate of mine. I was a mechanic. I was selling tools for.


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[Assistant] Is how I got into racing because the guys who were doing that, the guys who ran that company and several of the guys who were working in that company were all doing a hundred national karting. This was a time where I had no inkling that I would get into racing.


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[Assistant] And they said to me, you've got to come to a car race and see what happens. Come and check it out. Cause you might enjoy it.


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[Assistant] I went along and I saw it and I helped my mates out and I thought, Oh my God, this looks like the best fun ever. You know, I bought myself a secondhand car and a couple of perilla engines and a set of leathers and a crash helmet for what would now be considered pennies, you know, and I can't remember what the chassis cost me, but.


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[Assistant] It was probably 150 quid or something. And I started racing.


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[Assistant] And uhm, I hadn't quite sort of got to grips with the fact that you can't, you can't really get any grip until your tyres have heated up. But no, I, I, I was quick. I did get quick.


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[Assistant] I also broke both my ankles in my first season. I broke my ankles in the summer and I was back racing in the autumn. Didn't keep me out long. I thought, right, I need to get back into it.


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[Assistant] I wasn't really, because I wasn't asking. I was my own person. I had my own place to live in. I had a job. Nobody was going to be telling me how to lead my life. So even though those words weren't spoken at the time, they were understood.


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[Assistant] And my family were always very respectful of that actually. And I've got to give a great deal of respect for my dad at the time because he never said anything about it. He just let me get on and do my thing.


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[Assistant] He only ever came to one race, which was the British Grand Prix in 86.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I was actually on the payroll. I was a van driver and a gopher. Cool. So just what, driving stuff around?


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[Assistant] And yeah, it was the van driver. I was on the payroll. It was when they were still on that trading estate in Didcot. And yeah, it was great. It was fantastic. Loved it. You know, I often used to be on the, the Monday morning run where, as you probably know, when everybody was using Cosworth engines,


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[Assistant] At Cosworth engineering, it was first come first serve.


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[Assistant] So I'd be dispatched up the road at five o'clock in the morning in the van with a couple of DFVs in the back of this thing.


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[Assistant] No, it was Patrick Neve. It was a one car team with a March chassis in 1977.


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[Assistant] Yeah, there was literally a handful of guys. I mean, Frank was always incredibly friendly. You know, it was Frank and Patrick there. You know, there was a guy called Mike who ran the spares and


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[Assistant] John Redgrave was the chief mechanic and Bob Torrey and Graham Knapp were the, uh, the mechanics and, uhm, I think Patrick used to engineer the car and there was a truck driver. It was a tiny team. Happy days. Happy days.


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[Assistant] No, let's be clear, so I went there in 77.


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[Assistant] And then after that, I worked for, for Bob Sparshot in 78. I didn't start racing until 1980.


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[Assistant] And I just went and did it and, you know, I was traveling and going to races and feeling the camaraderie then already, but not really seeing myself as a driver. I remember there was a young Kiwi guy.


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[Assistant] Called Roy Still, who was working for Williams at the time, and he had a Formula Ford car. He had a van daemon.


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[Assistant] And he said to me, ah, racing, just gotta do it. And it's fantastic. But at the time I was thinking, well, I don't even know the first thing about getting into racing. And it wasn't until I met those guys in the tool company and they were karting and I went along and they were like, this is easy. Just buy the secondhand kit.


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[Assistant] Get your RAC competition license and get on with it. So I did.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so now having done it, I know what I would have missed out on. And as I said to you earlier, you know, it was just...


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[Assistant] Enormously satisfying and I consider myself to be incredibly lucky to have been able to


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[Assistant] Make a career out of doing something that gave me.


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[Assistant] Such incredible pleasure and represented such a huge challenge.


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[Assistant] And that word challenge is really important because I think challenges are really important in life. And I've always liked to challenge myself and knowing that I challenged myself in an extreme environment and had a degree of success.


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[Assistant] Gives me an enormous amount of satisfaction. And as I said to you earlier, it taught me a hell of a lot about myself and about how to deal with circumstances and how to deal with other people.


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[Assistant] That's a fantastic memory. It's a fantastic race to have won.


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[Assistant] You know, Jan and Andy did an incredible job and the car just made it to the end because as you know, the gearbox started going in the last two hours and Jan nursed it across the finishing line.


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[Assistant] And Group C was incredibly professional at that time in the late 80s and competitive. And it was great to see so many manufacturers involved. So it really felt like it meant something.


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[Assistant] You know, what was missing was the TV coverage. And I think if, if Group C had had better TV coverage in the late eighties,


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[Assistant] It could have evolved into something quite great. But yeah, I mean, it's a tough race. It's, 24 hour races are not easy. Did you sleep? I couldn't sleep, no. Too wired. You know, I'd go and lie down in between my stints, but I couldn't sleep. What was it like?


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[Assistant] I mean, you're traveling so fast, everything's relative, that when I started racing, you know, I remember the first time I drove a kart, uh, on my 100 National Kart, I thought, this thing's bloody insane! And...


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[Assistant] And then I got used to that and then I moved into Formula Ford 1600 and I thought this thing's bloody insane because it's got no grip. And then I moved into F3 and I thought this is fantastic because it's stuck to the road.


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[Assistant] You know, during all the various different stages of my career and of anyone's career, what happens is a driver gets more accustomed to the speed and everything slows down. So.


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[Assistant] You know, a person that's never driven a single seater, if you stuck them in a single seater and said, there you go, have a go in this thing, they'd be terrified. But for a professional driver, everything slows down. It comes normal.


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[Assistant] But driving at those speeds down the Mulsanne straight, you're really acutely aware of your speed because it is a Route Nationale in France, right? And it's got a camber on it. So is the car moving all over the road at those speeds? No, you don't want it to be moving over the road at those speeds, Tom.


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[Assistant] But whilst overtaking another car,


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[Assistant] It's super, super sensitive because the car's gone quite light and as you know,


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[Assistant] The Le Mans spec cars were low drag cars.


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[Assistant] So they had those really low rear wings, the bodywork was different. It's very, very sensitive and so we had to be really careful. So, you know, you're talking about really almost negligible steering input.


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[Assistant] Was incredible. I mean, it's flat. I mean, I remembered the year before in the Sauber on wet, it was flat, which is quite a sobering thought actually in retrospect.


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[Assistant] I'd thrown the thing into the wall a couple of times, uhm, once when we were leading. That didn't inanimate Tom Walkinshaw.


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[Assistant] No, because I don't think F1 teams were paying any attention at all to Group C World Championship.


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[Assistant] But it did, it did put me in the frame for a Toyota drive, which is where I ended up.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so I knew Peter Collins very well and I had identified Bennington as a potential


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[Assistant] See for me and I knew Peter well enough to call him and know that unless he was incredibly busy, he'd always take my calls. He offered me that, um, that testing program.


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[Assistant] And I had experience with active suspension because I'd been involved in the, you remember that Lotus were testing it. They were testing it with the.


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[Assistant] IMSA Chevrolet set up and so I'd done quite a lot of work with them in 87 as well. And I really enjoyed that actually, it was really challenging and active suspension was incredible. I mean it really was. Even those early iterations of it.


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[Assistant] Even those early iterations of it, I mean I remember testing that, that Instacar at Snetterton. And Lola were involved as well because they were the chassis provider. So Eric Broderly was involved and, you know, he was a great guy to work with too. I mean the safety at Snetterton was a joke.


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[Assistant] So I turn into core room, take an early 4th gear and turn into core room, really quick.


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[Assistant] I'd take early fourth gear and it was flat. That's how good the car felt there. Even though this thing was a monster that weighed a one metric ton. And the active suspension went down in the middle of the corner.


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[Assistant] And I went straight into the tires and Eric Broderly was standing on the bank right in front of where I shunted it.


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[Assistant] And it was such a heavy accident that they discovered that the, uh, the engine had moved forward in the impact. Were you okay? I was completely okay. Eric went as white as a sheet.


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[Assistant] We got off subject there, but yeaah, I ended up doing the Benetton Active Suspension Testing.


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[Assistant] And I did quite a lot of miles, but you know, it never went anywhere.


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[Assistant] No, I was super focused on my career. Never thought twice about it. All drivers are aware of the danger.


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[Assistant] But you know, there's a difference between being fearful of danger.


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[Assistant] And being aware of danger and compartmentalizing that emotion and dealing with it.


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[Assistant] You know, I mean people that don't really know anything about racing.


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[Assistant] Say things like, oh god, it must have been terrifying. Well no, of course not, because otherwise...


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[Assistant] If a person is terrified, they can't do it.


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[Assistant] You know, when a boxer steps into a boxing ring, they're aware of the risks that face them emotionally and psychologically. They have dealt with those emotions and it's the same for a driver. You know, it's something that's so enormously stimulating and invigorating.


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[Assistant] And we get such pleasure out of it that the risk is accepted and we get on with the job.


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[Assistant] No, it's, it's irreplaceable, Tom. In terms of sensation and speed and controlling oneself at speed, I would say that backcountry skiing is, is something that's


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[Assistant] You haven't yet reached the formulae.


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[Assistant] Where all the bullshit is, which is, you know, at the higher professional level, there's too much politics and too much bullshit. And at grassroots levels, it's just a hell of a lot of fun.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I would. But none of them have wanted to. And apart from my youngest daughter who's 20, they're all now past the age where they could embark upon a career. You're safe. I'm safe.


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[Assistant] The House is open to the public that Mount Stewart and what was formerly known as the Buter State is now all vested in a charitable trust called the Mount Stewart Trust.


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[Assistant] And it's not part of the commercial operations of my family. So we run it as a charitable trust and it's a, it's a visitor heritage attraction. And so at the time I thought, well, this is going to be a great way of getting a lot of people onto the island.


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[Assistant] Because we're on an island and the island is serviced by Caledonia McBrane, which is the ferry company. It's very complicated, expensive.


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[Assistant] There's a lack of accommodation and the logistics were a nightmare. So unfortunately we had to bin it after the second year, uh, which was a shame.


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[Assistant] Tom, it's been a great pleasure talking to you. And it's, it's fun from time to time to reminisce. I, I don't often talk about racing, but from time to time, I really enjoy it. It's been good talking to you.


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[Assistant] Welcome F1 fans to your favourite bit straight in podcast land. It's beyond the grid with me, Tom Clarkson.


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[Assistant] Isn't it wonderful to have Formula One back? We had an incredible tripleheader to open the season with so many storylines, and at the centre of it all, once again, was Lewis Hamilton. The six-time champ remained imperious on track, and he's becoming a true leader off it as well.


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[Assistant] The Mercedes driver is doing a fantastic job at highlighting the bigger issues confronting our sport, and indeed society in general, regarding racism, diversity and inclusion. He set up the Hamilton Commission aimed at boosting the diversity in the sport and ensuring more people from different backgrounds have the chance to pursue their dreams.


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[Assistant] But while Lewis has been a true trailblazer and an inspiration, he wasn't the first black racing driver to drive a Formula One car. No, that accolade went to an African American called William Theodore Ribbs, better known as Willie T.


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[Assistant] As an up and coming racer, Willy tested for Brabham at Estoril 35 years ago, and I'm delighted to say he's my guest on the show this week. If you've seen Willy's documentary on Netflix called Uppity, you'll know that he's a real character and he's also passionate about Formula 1.


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[Assistant] He dreamt of becoming a Grand Prix driver after meeting Dan Gurney as a boy, and he followed up on that dream by coming to England in 1977 to compete in Formula 4.


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[Assistant] Despite racing and beating the likes of Nigel Mansell, he ran out of money and was forced to return home to the US to continue his racing career. And it was there, in Formula Atlantic, NASCAR and Trans Am, that he experienced racist abuse at the racetrack.


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[Assistant] He even received death threats on a number of occasions, but Willy never gave up, the abuse only spurring him on to greater heights.


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[Assistant] And there were great highs. He qualified for two Indy 500s, again, a first for an African American driver, and Bernie Eccleston gave him that F1 test in the Brabham. He was quick too.


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[Assistant] These days, Willy lives in Texas, not far from the circuit of the Americas, and he very much keeps across what's happening in Formula One. He knows Lewis Hamilton well. In fact, he's regularly Lewis's guest at the US Grand Prix.


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[Assistant] He also remains close to Bernie Eccleston, even if he was troubled by the former F1 boss's recent comments on racism and diversity in Formula One.


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[Assistant] So sit back and enjoy hearing Willy's story. His passion for motorsport shines bright and he's also very amusing and a brilliant storyteller, which is good news for us because his career was heavily influenced by the likes of Muhammad Ali, boxing promoter Don King and film star Paul Newman.


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[Assistant] I hope you enjoy what I feel is an important conversation.


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[Assistant] Uh, Willie, I can see you. Uh, we're connected via Zoom. It's wonderful to have you on the show. Just tell us, where are you? What are you up to?


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[Assistant] So look, you're in Texas, how close to Cota and Austin are you?


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[Assistant] And have you been to the US Grand Prix at Cota and been involved in the race track in any way?


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[Assistant] Ah, did he? Because of course it was Bernie for whom you tested the Brabham. Gosh, what? 30 odd years ago now.


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[Assistant] Now you're showing your age. Willie, can we talk about that test actually? Because uhm, you know, it was a momentous moment, uh, for lots of reasons. You were the first black man to test a Formula One car.


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[Assistant] It was also a return to Europe for you because you began your racing career in England in 1977. How did that test with Brabham come about?


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[Assistant] You were very successful in England as well. You won, won the championship, six race wins. So how come you couldn't stay for 78? What happened after that?


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[Assistant] Did you contact Bernie to see if he would help pave the way with a few dollars?


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[Assistant] And that's thanks in large part to Lewis Hamilton these days, isn't it? And particularly this year.


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[Assistant] Listen, Willie, can I, there's lots I want to talk to you about, sort of, uhm, diversity in motorsport, but just to, if we can go back to that test at Brabham, okay, so it's December of 85, Bernie, I assume, gives you the call, you get a phone call, you get on a plane, and what happens next?


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[Assistant] So I guess it, so Estoril is quite a high speed track anyway, isn't it? So how were you physically when you actually got going in the car?


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[Assistant] Did you get to the point where you were enjoying driving the car?


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[Assistant] Was there ever talk of another test, a second test with the team?


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[Assistant] Yeah, just, so that F1 car, the Brabham BT54, was that the fastest car you ever drove?


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[Assistant] Did it wet your appetite to, you know, want to get back into Formula One again, or was it a box ticking exercise for you in that, okay, I've done Formula One now, I'm going to go and focus on IndyCar.


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[Assistant] How fantastic. You obviously did have a wonderful relationship with Bernie, but can we wind the clock back even further now and say, Willie, why motor racing?


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[Assistant] And so you came to England in 77. We've already discussed that you won the championship and were very quick in that formula forward. But how did you find living in England so far from home? You're a west coast American boy. How tough was it?


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[Assistant] Even within racing, I mean, it was very much a white man's sport now, and I'm guessing it was back then as well.


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[Assistant] That's fantastic. And of course the T stands for Theodore, doesn't it?


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[Assistant] Now if, if you were a bit younger, I would have said, oh,


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[Assistant] So when you were in England, you weren't made to feel like an outsider. You were just part of the racing fraternity and everyone was wishing you well.


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[Assistant] Have you? Fantastic. What impression did he make on you back then when you were both up and coming?


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[Assistant] So then you return to the States in 78 because you ran out of money, you mentioned that earlier, and then you went to Formula Atlantic, I think it was next, wasn't it? Was your success in the UK recognized by the US racing fraternity?


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[Assistant] You feel your treatment down to ethnicity. Is that what you're referring to? That held you back.


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[Assistant] Were you not given drives? For example, because of your colour?


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[Assistant] And where were the obstacles most prevalent? Was it one particular category or?


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[Assistant] Well, except, Willie, can I point you towards Talladega 1978? That NASCAR race where didn't you ask at the driver's briefing, can you overtake on the grass or something, did you?


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[Assistant] Just to wind everybody up. But I mean, there is a serious story there. Can you just tell us about what happened that weekend?


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[Assistant] Okay, but what happened next that weekend at Talladega?


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[Assistant] You're referring to this wonderful Netflix, uh, film about your life, aren't you?


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[Assistant] Anyone listening who hasn't seen upper T it really is sensational. I was watching it last night and it's an amazing story. Willie T yours is an amazing story, but you then became upper T at Talladega and they said, sorry, you are not racing. Is that what happened?


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[Assistant] He obviously had a big influence on you, your, your grandfather. What did he make of you wanting to become a racing driver?


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[Assistant] When you started having big success in Trans Am, I'm sure your grandpa was very happy, but tell me about this relationship you had with your teammate David Hobbs. Of course, an ex Grand Prix driver, seven Grand Prix's. In the film Uppity, you say that your relationship with him got personal. What did you mean by that?


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[Assistant] Now look, your Contacts book, uh, is the envy of Crikey, probably everyone, and there's just a few people I wanted to ask you about. One was Muhammad Ali, because I believe you met him when you were in England in 77.


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[Assistant] That's amazing. Wow. And then did he become a friend? Did you stay in touch with him after?


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[Assistant] Ali taught you just sort of some self-defense moves, is that true?


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[Assistant] Well look, which brings us quite nicely onto your relationship with Don King. You met him in the mid-80s when he just discovered Mike Tyson, so he was sort of at the height of his power. What did he do for you?


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[Assistant] So Don, tell me if I'm wrong, brought the Miller Brewing Company to the, to the party for the Indy 500 in 1985. Is that right?


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[Assistant] But unfortunately, that 85 Indy 500, you didn't qualify for the race and, well, you walked away, didn't you? You walked away.


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[Assistant] Okay, so then fast forward six years and you're back at indie.


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[Assistant] Trying to qualify and really significantly managing to do so and the footage is incredible. The last 15 minutes of bump day you squeeze in. Even now, all these years later, do you still feel emotional when you think of that achievement?


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[Assistant] Yep. That's crazy. And of course you then go back in 93 with Nigel Mansell, brings you back to Nigel, same race and do it again. I guess these were the most high profile outings in your career. Is that fair?


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[Assistant] Now, talking of a metaphorical wall, did your success in qualifying for those two Indies encourage diversity within IndyCar or indeed American motorsport? Did you get letters from young black kids saying, I really want to be a racing driver like you, Willie, or


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[Assistant] So it was just a, there was a peak of interest and then what, within a year it was back to how it always had been. Is that what you're- Oh yeaah.


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[Assistant] But Willy, if you, you know, you achieved your success, why did it take another 30 years and Lewis Hamilton to create the wave of, of momentum that we have now?


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[Assistant] But it's still taken Lewis 14 years to get to a position where he's at now in which he can try and make serious changes.


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[Assistant] And do you still know Bernie well enough now to pick up the telephone?


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[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. Well, he did a, he's certainly done a lot for Formula One, but Formula One is now, it's a new era with Liberty, with Chase, with Ross. And, uh, they've got the ball and they're definitely running with it as well, aren't they?


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[Assistant] Oh wow, what an amazing chat. I feel it's, uh, Willy, it's been wonderful to talk to you and to realise that you are still so connected with Formula One.


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[Assistant] You've said it beautifully. Willie, thank you so much for your time. Wonderful to speak. See you at COTA if we get there this year.


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[Assistant] Isn't Willy great? So many fantastic stories and he's still passionate about Formula 1. I can't help wondering what he might have done in Grand Prix racing if he'd had a proper crack at it. And by that I mean a thorough test program ahead of going racing.


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[Assistant] Don't forget that those turbo cars of the mid-80s were absolute beasts and he acquitted himself well at Estoril.


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[Assistant] What he had to go through as a driver was outrageous and let's hope that he and Lewis and the entire F1 community can continue to make a real difference in the fight to end racism. It feels like things are finally happening and long may it continue.


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[Assistant] Willie, thanks for your time. It was great to chat and I look forward to seeing you whenever F1 next races at Cota.


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[Assistant] Well that's almost it for this week, but as ever, let me dive into the virtual mailbag to see what you're saying about the show.


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[Assistant] It seems that many of you are excited about the return of Fernando Alonso next year and you loved hearing Pat Simmons talk about the two-time champ last week.


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[Assistant] And if I had that blank check, I would pick Senna and Alonso in my team. Well, Alvin, that would be one hell of a driver lineup.


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[Assistant] For me it would definitely be Senna in one car, and then a coin toss for either Schumacher or Alonso in the other. Probably Alonso.


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[Assistant] Now Jason Hill said this about that show. I enjoyed the candid, insightful conversation with Pat Simmons this week. Seems like one of the sharpest minds in F1, and not one that we've heard much from, at least as an F1 fan in the US. I like the format, focusing on Alonso's extraordinary talent.


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[Assistant] As I said last week, Jason, few people in racing know Fernando as well as Pat. In fact, there's a strong argument to say that Pat helped to sculpt Fernando into the phenomenal driver he became.


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[Assistant] Well that's it for this week folks, and I'm sorry if I didn't read out your message, but please keep getting in touch, and if you want to drop me a line, I'm at Tom Clarkson F1 on Twitter, where you can use the hashtag F1 Beyond The Grid.


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[Assistant] As ever, thanks for listening. Beyond the Grid is produced by F1 in association with Audio Boom. Until next time, keep it flat out.


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[Assistant] I don't give away easily. This is my only one chance in the Formula One World's World, so I have to do my best because we are fighting on the track.


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[Assistant] Uh, just currently back in Japan, uh, just need, uh, something to do. And, uh, just, uh, spending a couple of weeks here, just after Daytona, I went to the test in Spain in Aragon. And, uh, straight away back to Japan and I'm going back to Europe, uh, next week.


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[Assistant] As you know, with the COVID-19, for the moment, we have kind of a lockdown, but it's not a very hard restriction, so we are allowed to go out without any permission. Obviously, I think restaurants have to close like 8 o'clock.


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[Assistant] It's, it's not all about Japan, it's, uh,


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[Assistant] The huge places like Tokyo, and, uh, yeaah, I mean Osaka as well, uh, yeaah, it's still difficult to say, I mean, if, uh, the COVID, it's, uh, improving, but, uh, yeaah, as soon as kind of lockdown, it's less people in cases, so, you know, we are in the game still.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, I think, uh, I have the same mind, I mean.


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[Assistant] You know, uh, Japanese Formula One fan is so extremely excited to watch Formula One in Suzuka.


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[Assistant] And obviously, I think we see a lot of races around, uh, in Europe, but, uh, not in Japan. So, uh, as I see the calendar, I think when you're having the Formula One in Suzuka is kind of like...


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[Assistant] Historical circuit, because in this time, I would say, in the Formula One track, it's a little bit, you know, not much risk.


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[Assistant] In terms of the escape zone, in terms of the gravel, uh, I think still, uh, Suzuka is one of the challenging circuits. Especially in, I think now in the Formula One, it's really fast. And once you've got this speed in Suzuka, I would say it's extremely a fun place for other drivers.


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[Assistant] Spa, uh, it's one of the, I think, uh, very challenging and old school track. I think Spa is getting less risky on the track because, uh, you know, uh, off track, offline, I would say there's a lot of asphalt now. But, uh, Suzuka, I mean, still, there's a lot of challenging track.


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[Assistant] It's not every track, but, uh, once we go in like high-speed track, I think our car was, uh, quite competitive. As you see, Spa, I think I was second in query. You know, I think, uh, we had a really good car, and obviously we had quite bad luck, uh, through the season.


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[Assistant] In terms of speed, uh, speed was good, but, uh, the result always we had something like we lose a pistol, we lose something at start, uh, like sprites be ashamed.


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[Assistant] But, uh, I think in the end, I think I managed to finish out in Suzuka. But, uh, at least we deserve what we have in the car.


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[Assistant] So, you know, I think, uh, one of my highlights in the, in the Formula One career, I would say.


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[Assistant] We are not sure if we can manage the speed.


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[Assistant] Before start of race, because we knew that, uh, I had quite good qualified, but I think pure performance in terms of the...


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[Assistant] The car performance, I think there's a lot of strong cars. I think definitely, I think Red Bull was really strong. As you see, Ferrari was strong as well. And when you see, McLaren was strong. So there's like six competitors already strong in the performance. So for sure, I think our car was a bit behind of them. It's quite natural.


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[Assistant] You know, I think to get this result with that car is the maximum result I can have.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, you know, I had really thankful for all the Japanese fans, uh, I think, uh, I was sad, uh, obviously, I think, like, I felt like winning.


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[Assistant] So, we're really sorry for the save, uh, Philippe, because...


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[Assistant] I think Seb is always strong in Suzuka, and Philippe, I think he was not long time being in the podium, so he just came back second after long, I think, I don't know, maybe one or two season.


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[Assistant] So he should be really happy, but, uh, you know, I think again, I think we all celebrate what we got in the, in Suzukas. And I think all that's from the spectator. That's, uh, that's fantastic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I wasn't on the podium in the Formula One, uh, I was like, I felt it's not an easy way to get to the podium, but as soon as you've been there, I think you feel, uh, you know, I think you did really deserve your job, or you made it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To be honest, I think when you're in Formula 1, uh, you have always pressure, so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have no, nothing to say that, uh, it was extremely like something different in Suzuka or not. I mean, I would say it's, uh, it's same limit of the pressure as usual.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, I knew that if I made Guruzao in Suzuka, it would be something different. So that's why...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I think we got couple of chance in get podium in last, I mean 2012, but uh, obviously I think we couldn't manage it. So just, I was try to wish myself, believe myself, you know, everything going well instead of having some trouble.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, I'm not like, well, if I get my picture myself, which is not like something


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wanted it, but, uh, yeaah, I think this is the most surprise for me always when you're back in Japan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, Japanese fans always give me something special. This picture is one with a strange way. But, uh, yeaah. I think still, still having pictures is good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, I mean, still, I think we were allowed to access to the truck without any problem. So, you know, I think the people are


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Little bit, uh, more calm now. And, uh, yeaah, I think still I feel...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's great because before going to race, I mean, whatever track, I think that was only Suzuka is something special. Uh, so, you know, I think that's a really good way and I'm really proud as part of Japanese motorsports.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, uh, I had contact, I think, uh, last year, in the last year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, not, not really. Someone not teaching me, but, uh, I just, uh, develop myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You need to understand how time works properly. And obviously, I think, always this idea gives good help. And also, I think,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, that's here. In Zalvo, we had the pair, uh, who is in Letbrunel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this, we, we talk a lot of stuff on tyres and, uh, just, you know, nobody teaching me, but just, uh, I try to manage myself to understand how to manage a tyre again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, through the one lap, where you want to gain the lap time. And you need to calculate yourself. So you, from practice, you try to walk in the tire front and rear and how you drop through the one lap, for example.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you just, uh, you know, found out what is a compromise, best compromise in one lap. And in the race, if you push, of course, tyre will drop. So you don't need to push, but just you have to make sure that how you push, how you get speed without push. I mean, this is most important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have to be in the, like, kind of 90% driving, and if your tyres drop, for example, you have to find a priority where you have to save the tyre.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's not you save the tyres every corner. You need to save the tyres particularly well. I mean this is you need a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Understand, you need to study, and you need to make it to work ties.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly. But, uh, how? I mean, this, if you drive slow, it's just slow. So you have to understand how.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, for example, yeah, accelerating or you still keeping the carrying speed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You try to manage the tyre and where you can have a big gaining lap time in the one corner, you try to steer a little bit aggressive on the tyre. So you need a, you know, the management of the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the bridge turned basically a kind of more grip on the longitudinal grip. Clearly it was weak on the lateral grip.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the exit, so obviously you lose more lap time. So you try to not push in the entry like pretty, but you give it a little bit chance to not lose lap time on the exit. And you try to manage that, uh, don't lose so much like kind of lap time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, I mean we need it. Because this is how you manage the tyres. You know, tyres are always like, yeaah, living.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Taya's life is like same as human. If you ask too much, Taya give up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have more oversteer car or understeer car. And this is, you know, each manufacturer have different way to design the car. And I guess I think MAX is something I think, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe he can manage 100% for sure, because he's a good driver. But I think more matter how you fit in the car and obviously the team as well, you know, regarding the communication and all the stuff. So he will be good for sure. But, uh,