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[Assistant] For real. So if that was the case, they thought, then why was this the first time they were ever invited over for a barbecue? Like you're, you used to be a butcher and this is the first time you're inviting us over?


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[Assistant] So when people started talking more and more about Kelly and Jason and their connection to the missing man and then their sudden departure of town, this guy David started thinking more and more about this barbecue and he later said, we were always wondering if they were the kind of people that actually did kill the guy and butchered him up and had us over for dinner. I believe we ate him.


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[Assistant] And this poor man in the documentary, he goes a little deeper into it and from the sounds of it, like this might


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[Assistant] Not to my knowledge. And that's the thing, like, you don't


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[Assistant] Who's Katherine Knight? Uhm, she's like Australian Scary Nana. Listen to that episode, Drew. Scary Nana? Yea, she...


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[Assistant] He was saying that it changed him for a while, like he literally, he lost a ton of weight because he just couldn't eat without thinking that he possibly had eaten a man.


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[Assistant] Back to the story. While Kelly and Jason were running off to Indiana, again, their house is still able to be searched and the investigators were sifting through everything in the hopes they'd find something more incriminating that could actually lead them to an arrest because yes, there's blood spatter in the house, but we don't know if it's human or animal.


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[Assistant] So they're looking around and one day they're there and police chief Laura Frizzo, she's in the basement of the home and she sees this notebook in the corner as she's going through stuff and this notebook belongs to Jason.


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[Assistant] He would write these stories, like these really super creepy stories, and one of them was entitled Where Monsters Hide, which again is that book that I read for this, not Jason's book, a different book.


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[Assistant] And he would basically write these short stories where he would make himself the hunter and then he introduced a character that was like very clearly supposed to be Chris Regan. He talks about hunting this person and the quote unquote tingle feeling that a hunter gets as he's stalking his prey and getting ready to kill.


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[Assistant] And the notebook story even references a cookout after this unwanted guest is quote unquote gone.


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[Assistant] So Laura's like, what the fuck? And she's like, you know what? We need to get the FBI involved in this because we're uncovering more and more within this home and it's clear these people are responsible for Chris Regan's disappearance.


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[Assistant] But they're like we need to get more hands on deck and make sure we have a slam dunk case when it comes time to arrest these people and bring them to trial.


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[Assistant] Interestingly enough, that clothing line used to be hung up in the backyard of the Cochran's residence, and neighbors confirmed it was taken down right around the time that Chris went missing.


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[Assistant] But it belonged to Chris, er, excuse me, I'm sorry. It belonged to Kelly and Jason Cochran.


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[Assistant] So the burn barrel and the clothes, the clothes thing around it.


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[Assistant] Which kind of leads you to believe, and there's other things in this case that we'll get into later that will lead you to believe, these people might have done something like this before.


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[Assistant] How are you gonna drive a car and abandon it and leave nothing behind?


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[Assistant] Ooh, it is time to talk about one of my favorite freakin' sponsors, America's number one meal kit, the best in the world, Hello Fresh. Hello freakin' fresh.


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[Assistant] With HelloFresh, you get farm-fresh, pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to you at OS step. Skip trips to the grocery store and count on HelloFresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That is why it's America's number one meal kit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, the cheese is lemony ricotta and then you top it with like fresh parsley and honey and chili flakes. It is decadence. It is decadence within your mouth and you should savor every last second of summer with HelloFresh because they deliver


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[Assistant] All these wonderful, delicious, fresh ingredients produce delicious food to your door in less than a week, and it allows you to enjoy the delicious flavors of the saison right from home.


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[Assistant] And oh, here's this, here's this deal. If you're heading out for one last vacation, update your delivery address and enjoy HelloFresh at your vacation destination with just a simple click. You know, if you're trying to like stay on track with eating the way that you want to eat, that's the way to do it. The plans are flexible, so they work with your changing schedule.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it is just absolutely so freakin' delicious. You follow the step-by-step recipe and you just eat the most decadent meal ever. You're gonna love it. You need to go to HelloFresh.com slash Morbid16 and use code Morbid16 for 16 free meals across 7 boxes and 3 free gifts. Again,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is hellofresh.com slash morbid16 and use code morbid16 for 16 free meals across seven boxes and three free gifts. America's number one meal kit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she phoned the police over in Indiana to let them know that Kelly and Jason were both like lead suspects in a missing person's investigation. And luckily we don't see this all the time, as you listeners know, as you weirdos know, but the police over there, they agreed to help in any way that they possibly could.


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[Assistant] But I think this is such a different case too, where it's like, clear that these two people were involved in it, so they were willing to help. And once Laura got her DNA warrant, she actually headed on over to Indiana herself to swab some cheeks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the police in Indiana had picked Kelly and Jason up explaining about the warrant for DNA. But what they didn't do was tell them that Laura Frizzo, somebody they knew and pretty much fucking loathed at this point, she was here to chat.


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[Assistant] I've got you in a ton of lies up to this point. Like, do you want me to just lay them out on the table? I know what happened. And she suggested, you know, maybe Jason was the one to kill Chris in a jealous rage and you're covering for him. Like I can help you, but this is the last chance you have. Like if you don't come clean to me right now, I'm not interested in helping you any further.


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[Assistant] So Laura tells her, again, this is your chance to come clean, we're gonna figure this out, la-dee-da-doo. Kelly's like, no.


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[Assistant] And she asks for a lawyer if she's going to be held any further. Okay. And unfortunately she couldn't be held any further that night. They just really didn't have a lot, like they could have arrested her at that point for murder, but they really don't have enough. They have a good amount of circumstantial evidence, but like they want to make sure that this is a slam dunk case.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. So the EMTs and the other first responders, they make it to the scene, but it's almost like Kelly's trying to hold them back from getting to her husband. She's like getting in the way of anybody who's approaching Jason, she's asking them questions, she's trying to explain stuff, but she's literally like using her body to get forcefully in the way of them. Oh.


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[Assistant] So, and obviously all they're concerned with at this point is treating Jason. So Kelly actually had to be removed from the room and put to stay in another room, which was put down in the report. They were like, she was being weird as fuck.


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[Assistant] But upon closer look, that was not the only factor in his death. And they, like the investigators working this case told the medical examiner, sure, I'm like, there's definitely like heroin in his system, but please look out for things that say homicide because we're not so sure here.


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[Assistant] So he did a super thorough search of this man.


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[Assistant] And he finds petechial hemorrhaging in Jason's eyes, like around Jason's eyes. Now petechial hemorrhaging happens when you are choked or strangled.


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[Assistant] They think that she used, like, a pillow to smother him, but she put so much pressure on the pillow that that's how his sinus cavities, uhm, like, smashed him. He couldn't breathe, so his eyes, the pedicure hemorrhages, that's what happened.


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[Assistant] They need, like, again, they could go to trial with this, with all the circumstantial evidence, but it's really kind of like...


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[Assistant] I'm trying to think of like the right adjective. It's, it's a toss up going to trial with purely circumstantial evidence because


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[Assistant] I think maybe they could have gotten a jury with this, like with all the circumstantial evidence they did have, but there's still that question of is there a reasonable doubt? Like could somebody else have done this? So they want something straight up.


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[Assistant] So now Ogden can focus on that and she could keep searching the Cochrane's residence for more.


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[Assistant] Now eventually the FBI did uncover more evidence within that home. Okay.


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[Assistant] So they find like metal bits of a man's jeans and the blade of a reciprocating saw in a burn pit outside of Kelly and Jason's house. And the reason they couldn't see this was before was because again, we're in like the upper peninsula. It was snowy as fuck. So all the snow melted and then they find this.


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[Assistant] The genes unfortunately couldn't be linked directly to Chris Regan, and the blade was so burnt that there was no possibility they were gonna get any kind of DNA from it.


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[Assistant] Terry said that that blue rabbit's foot belonged to Chris. She said that he did like, he probably wouldn't have wanted people to know it, but he was a very superstitious man and he would carry it with him for luck. Okay. Which is like, obviously that's his. Yeah. And that's so sad.


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[Assistant] So again, the police want something more solid, and luckily they got just that when a friend of Jason's came forward and said he wanted to help in this investigation.


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[Assistant] So he had heard about everything that was going on and he kinda got to the point too where he wondered not only had his friend been involved in Chris Regan's death but was Kelly.


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[Assistant] The one responsible for killing his friend. So he phones up the police and he says I'm willing to help. And Jeremy Ogden comes up with a master plan.


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[Assistant] So, this was all fake. This had never happened.


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[Assistant] This was Jeremy Ogden's plan to try to get Kelly. Okay. So he has Walt call Kelly and basically like explain like I got this note from Jason.


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[Assistant] The fake note from Jason, quote unquote, again, not really from him, explained that he and Kelly were involved in Chris Regan's disappearance and that Walt needed to send this letter to the Iron River Police Department.


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[Assistant] So, Walt calls Kelly while, so, sorry, Walt explains this whole thing to Kelly, unbeknownst to her, he is sitting in a cop car on a recorded line literally right next to Officer Jeremy Ogden. Wow. And Kelly's answer is damning.


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[Assistant] When Walt said, you know, I really just want to let you know before I go ahead and send this out.


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[Assistant] Please don't send that letter because she knows that this letter, this fake letter, like she doesn't know it's fake, but she knows that it's explained everything or she thinks it explains everything that they did.


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[Assistant] She starts absolutely cracking at this point. She's calling and texting Jeremy Ogden incessantly telling him about this letter. Obviously he knows full well about this letter because he fucking made it up in the first place. But Kelly, she thinks it's real and she's like, fuck, like my days as a free woman are going to come to an end once that letter ends up in the hands of the Iron River PD. Yeah.


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[Assistant] It was then that she came down to the station and after a little more good cop, I understand act from Jeremy Ogden, she confesses and she says, Jason shot Chris in the head on October 14th after I lured him over with the promise of a hookup.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it was all planned. Wow. She explains in further detail that she was actually supposed to be the one to kill Chris, but she couldn't do it because she really did have feelings for him. You see...


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, this was in 2002 that they allegedly made this pact, because again, you know, Jason's not here to say whether he did this or not, but maybe they did. But 2002, then you kill the man and I believe it was 2014? Like, what?


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[Assistant] And she said, she was like, I didn't take it seriously, but like Jason did, but it's like, obviously you took it seriously. It's the reason you killed the, or you either killed or were involved in this man's death.


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[Assistant] So she later said she had no idea that Jason was home when she brought Chris over. So they're like, so wait, you were supposed to have this whole plan where like, you're gonna lure him over for, with the promise of sex and your husband's gonna shoot him. But then you say, you bring this man to your house. He's like, allegedly had never been there before.


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[Assistant] And you didn't know Jason was whole, which is it Kelly? She starts telling these like stories that just completely differentiate from one another. Okay.


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[Assistant] So yea, she says, I had no idea that Jason was even home when I brought Chris over. And she said they were fooling around in the front entryway of her home. It's a little hard to describe this part, but again, if you watch that documentary, she actually recreates this. It's very harrowing. So she says they're fooling around in the front entry room. She said like they couldn't even make it to where they were headed.


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[Assistant] If you walk, pretend like you're walking into the house, and on one side there's stairs that lead to a basement, let's just say to your left for shits and giggles. On the left there's stairs that lead to the basement, and on the right there's a couple steps that lead into the kitchen. So they're fooling around in the entryway. Little, quote unquote, little does she know it.


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[Assistant] But Jason is hiding in the basement area and as they turn to walk up into the kitchen, Jason is behind them at this point and shoots Chris, according to Kelly.


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[Assistant] She says then after Chris was shot that he stumbles backwards, which I don't know about that, but from the force of the shot and he falls downstairs into the basement. And then at this point, Jason demands that Kelly help him cover everything up and that


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[Assistant] After he was done dismembering the body, she was to clean the basement, the entire basement with a toothbrush.


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[Assistant] Yeah. But there were problems with her story.


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[Assistant] If they had this pact, then why would Kelly have even brought Chris to her home and lust to follow through with it? Like, he had never been there before. They always went to Chris's house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly. Other than if, if you have this packed and you're bringing him to your house, you know what's gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then the other thing that doesn't really make any sense at all is that there was no blood found in the basement. Remember, all of that cast-off was found in the living room.


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[Assistant] So the, and it just doesn't make any sense at all. Investigators believed that Jason did shoot Chris, but believed that Kelly knew that this was the plan all along, and her role in it was to keep Chris distracted, which is what I believe.


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[Assistant] But nonetheless, they wanted her to lead them to the body, the investigators, which she said,


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[Assistant] And this is horrible and I hate that this happened to this poor man. She said that his body was separated into large black trash bags and brought to a wooded area where the bags were scattered and she was the one that brought the body to this area.


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[Assistant] Now, the night that she confessed, she went back to Michigan with Jeremy Ogden to recreate their murder scene like I was just saying at her house, and to also show him the area where they found the body.


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[Assistant] Uhm, it was too late to go into the woods and start looking for the body, like they wanted to go back in daylight. And Kelly was supposed to meet up with the detectives again the next day so that they could go over more of her story.


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[Assistant] You know, so that they could get more out of her, because I think they knew the second that they arrested her, that was it.


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[Assistant] Exactly. And that, and that's my assumption. I'm not sure if that's exactly why, but based on what I read and watched, I think that had a lot to do with it. But thankfully she was dumb about it and she got cocky, which we know is always the downfall of these fricking people, murderers.


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[Assistant] They think that they're smarter than the detectives working the case and that they have the upper hand, but then they go and do something silly because they have this like false sense of confidence going, which is exactly what happened in Kelly's case.


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[Assistant] She started texting Detective Ogden, taunting him about how she knew she was getting away. And she sends him a photo and says, the west coast looks good this time of day. Sends this man a fucking selfie like he wants to see you. And she made it seem like she was off somewhere in California.


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[Assistant] Uhm, little did this bitch know text messages can be traced, obviously. Like we triangulate the shit all the time. And hers was traced to a little area in Kentucky where she was promptly arrested and brought back to Michigan. Finally, she's arrested.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she does end up leading them to the area where she at, where she said Chris's body was disposed of, and they were able to find a skull.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And obviously it was determined to be Chris Regan's skull. Now she also took them back to her home and she showed them a pair of forceps that was just like lying by the kitchen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she was the one to point them out, and she said Jason had forced her to use those forceps to try to remove the bullet from Chris's skull.


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[Assistant] Because had they left the bullet behind, like it would be easier if he was found to know what gun had killed him. So that's why they wanted to do that.


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[Assistant] It was unsuccessful, but Kelly said there might be some kind of DNA on them because she had attempted to do this.


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[Assistant] This was like the weirdest part. She said she got a thrill from blood, but she did want to specify that she quote unquote wasn't a vampire or some weird shit like that.


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[Assistant] Now, sure enough, and thankfully, because at this point, I mean, now we've got the skull in like, so like, she's, she's going away, but then even more on top of that, Chris's blood was found on those forceps. So Kelly was facing not only one murder charge for the death of her husband at this point, because they know that she's done this, she's the only one in the home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now she's facing a second murder charge for Chris Regan, and again also her husband Jason Cochran.


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[Assistant] So while she's incarcerated, she tells the cops that she and Jason had killed before.


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[Assistant] And then in a shocking revelation, her brother went to the police and told them that he had been suspicious over the years of Kelly and Jason, and he believed that he had, that the two of them had killed at least nine people across the states that Kelly had mentioned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there is a possibility that that could be the truth. But unfortunately, even if it is the truth, Kelly will not be prosecuted for any more murders in Indiana.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, she can. Between the two murders, Kelly was found guilty on multiple counts, including murder, home invasion, because they believe that she actually may have gone to Chris's home. And like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of his medication was accounted for except for Percocets.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was also charged with conspiracy to commit bodies disinterment, excuse me, to commit bodies disinterment and mutilation, uh, concealing the death of an individual, lying to a police officer, and accessory to murder after the fact. She didn't, oh sorry, did you have a question? No, I was just gonna say, yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, exactly. Uhm, and she like confesses at one point. She said she did it because he took the only thing that she ever loved away from her, which was Chris.


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[Assistant] Like, they, it seemed like they were gonna start their relationship again, like it seemed like they were working on it, cause remember she was gonna spend Thanksgiving with him before he moved, or when he moved, excuse me. But she, and they were long time friends anyway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she said of Kelly during the trial, the first time I saw her was, excuse me, the first time I saw her was in the courthouse. I just remember her staring at me and grinning. Like she had the audacity to grin at this woman. What the hell?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Laughing and saying, look what I did, you can't stop me. She just sat there and grinned. It was like the devil looking at you.


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[Assistant] And after I testified, I lost it. I totally lost it. I just remember driving, speeding, not knowing if I had crossed the border. I didn't know if I was in Wisconsin or Michigan. I didn't know what to do. I just wanted to run as far away from Kelly as possible. Yeah, I would too. Yeah, I don't blame her at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, Kelly is currently being held at the woman's Huron Valley Correctional Facility. It's in Pittsfield Charter Township, Michigan. Uhm, she apparently spends her time turning her glasses into shanks and threatening to kill anybody who comes near her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Laura Frizzo believes, just like I do, 100% that Kelly has killed before. And she actually has a theory, because Kelly has 14 butterfly tattoos that are representative, she said, of people that she's lost in her life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yikes. Uh, Laura was absolutely haunted while going through the Cochran's home when she made this realization because it was like a glass shatter moment. The entire home inside and out is decorated with butterflies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Laura was recreating the scene for that documentary Dead North, and she's out in the area where they had originally found Chris's skull. And as they're out there kind of recreating this moment, the crew actually finds another piece of human remains, was later tested and confirmed to be Chris Regan's lower jaw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But for some reason after Kelly's conviction, the city manager dismissed Laura from her duties. She was fired as police chief.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This guy had a long history when it came to being gross in the workplace, especially with women. And Laura felt as though he was threatened by the fact that she was a woman who was good at her job, so he just got rid of her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and that's the thing. The entire Iron River community was behind her and they were so impressed with the investigation that she was able to carry out. Like, they were literally making posters like, let Chief Frizzo like, do her job, leave her alone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the de- the decision was the city manager, David Thiers, to make and it was final.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but she and Jeremy Ogden ended up together. They met through the investigation and she felt like it was like kind of the universe bringing them together. That's cute. That was like happy. Uhm, that's like the only happy thing within this. Uhm, Kelly has not faced any more charges. We have not found out if she has murdered more people. We haven't found any more bodies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I guess I even to the score means like, he killed her man that she loves so she killed him, but to me I'm like, the score?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But for me, even the score, I'm like, were you keeping tallies? Like, if you believe that other people have been killed, like, did he ever have an affair and you killed the person?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The thing for me that, I mean this whole entire case like rocked my shit, but the butterfly tattoos?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're like, lost. And then it's like, lost? Like did Jason kill those people? Like, like you were having an affairs with those people and because of the pact he killed them or you had to? And then you're saying that's a loss for them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I would definitely argue that she's probably, I think she's killed more people. I don't, I don't think she's killed 21 people. Yeah. And then her brother.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's definitely weird, but I definitely urge you to go watch that documentary. I definitely urge you to go buy that book, Where Monsters Hide. It's got, like, it's packed with details. So, if I missed anything, you can check it out in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you know what, I think it's like, this is morbid, but we, we crawled to the finish line the last couple of weeks, man. It has been.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I want to know like what deity we pissed off. Yeah, something, something's awry. We're going to have to cleanse a lot of energy out of here because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't really sound, you know, as smooth as we have been. That's because we're recording remotely. Because Ash is still down with the rona.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ready to record in person, like I'm done with Rona. I'm also just ready to like walk out of my fucking house. I was gonna say just get out of the house, probably.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we got the Rona, which, you know, we don't love recording remotely. In fact, all my fellow podcasters who do that like on the reg, I give you a lot of props because it's hard. It's not really enjoyable. It's hard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm supposed to work in my bedroom. And I'm just in the pod lab alone.


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[Assistant] But it's been a weird couple weeks because after, so we were dealing with that, we were just trying to get the schedule down, you know. You guys got a fun John episode because, you know, at first Ash was like super sick, like this wasn't like a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god, cause I was in bed for four days. Yeah. I knew it. Yeah. I could tell that you were super sick and that's, we just, it wasn't going to happen even remotely. I wasn't going to ask her to, to sit for an episode. That would have been insane. So luckily John.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get out of my seat, John. Get out of my seat. That's my chair. That's my creaky chair. He did say at the end, he was like, you know what, Ash, you gotta come back, cause...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is nice. This was his one and done. He's gonna come back. We'll make him do another one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I think he was helpful with that. Like thank goodness he stepped in so that was able to happen. It was fun. It was like a fun little different thing to do.


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[Assistant] Like a couple, it was a day, I don't know what day it is anymore, I don't know what time it is, it's a flat circle, but.


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[Assistant] Very shortly after that, uh, one of my daughters, my youngest one, had a seizure out of nowhere, and it was the scariest thing that has ever happened to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In my entire life. Uhm, so that threw things off a little bit because it was also around the same thing that was happening at the same time was my twins had their dance recital.


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[Assistant] Which I know it's like, oh, it's a dance recital, but it's like, they've been working really hard, like all season for it. They were so excited about it. So we were trying to make sure that we made that super normal for them, kept that going while also dealing with, you know, what had happened.


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[Assistant] I mean, we're so lucky because my mother-in-law lives with us. So it was a huge help because as soon as it happened, it happened really fast, like.


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[Assistant] Let's look at the positive, she's okay. Like, they told me there's no damage and that they don't think it's like an epileptic disorder, but like, we'll keep an eye on her, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even like being away, like put it into perspective for me. Like I was, oh my God, no, like I need to be there. It just makes you think like, cause immediate like thank goodness she was okay. And that's all I could think of was like, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, thanks again for being so patient and so nice and kind about it. We appreciate it. You guys are rock stars. You truly are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yeaah, that was the super duper fun week we had, but guess what, doesn't matter because here we are, and it's time to record another Morbidampa Show! Let's go! Well, today we are going to be talking about the case of Savannah LaFontaine Greywind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, this is a case of like kidnapping and a very intricate way of going about it and there's a lot of mention about domestic abuse as well. So, just be aware of that. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And obviously I had to dive into that because you know who I am. Of course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now this family was an indigenous family and in most sources you'll see that they're from the Spirit Lake, uh, Sioux tribe, but Norbetta, Savannah's mother, actually belonged to the Turtle Mountain tribe. Oh, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From what I've read, it's actually not super common from people or for people from different tribes to marry. So I was, I kind of looked into that a little bit, but everything I read said it's not common. So I would be interested to hear if we have any Native American listeners or indigenous listeners that want to elaborate on that. Cause it was something I was interested in, but couldn't find a lot of information on. That's really interesting. I didn't know that. I didn't even know that was a thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but because we're focusing on Savannah, I did want to talk a little bit more about the tribe that she was a part of, which again is the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe. Okay. Now, this tribe actually used to be known as the Devil's Lake Sioux Tribe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they've actually changed their names a couple of times, but in the early 90s, they officially changed it to Spirit Lake Sue.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and when the tribe name was changed, so was the name of the reservation that they lived on. Originally it had been known as Fort Totten Indian Reservation, but now it's simply known as the lakes, the Spirit Lake Sioux Reservation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. Now you might be saying, Alina, why did they change the name from Devil's Lake? That sounds so rad. It sounds very metal, but I was like, you know what, what is the newer name?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The new name is the Spirit Lake Sioux. That sounds so soothing. It does. Like it just, it immediately makes, it's like peaceful sounding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, I agree with you. Well, and there was like an actual reason for it too because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basically, the people who belong to this tribe, they actually don't think that Devil's Lake should be called Devil's Lake. Oh. And actually, I don't think the devil is really a part of Native American culture at all. Like, it's not like Catholicism or anything like that where there's like a, a devil. Yeah. Like, character kind of thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when the settlers first stepped on the scene, they actually misunderstood the name when it was translated for them. And they thought that the translation of the Native American words, and I'm gonna do my best with this,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Ukela is a gigantic female serpent who was said to live in the nearby lake, and she had one thing on her mind. Chaos. Oh, I love it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So apparently she's got these massive claws, she's got fiery eyes, this like loud booming voice that the Native Americans compared to thunderclaps, and she also has this large kind of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is said that whoever looked into her eyes would either lose their own sight over time or just become insane. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, even if you approached this beast while she was not awake, like if she was sleeping, just seeing her with your own eyes could mean that your entire family would perish. Oh my god.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if you see her, then your whole family dies. So like you become this great wonder worker. But did your whole family die? Yea, like is your family thriving or nah? Or nah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's just like a wild thing. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Savannah's culture was something obviously, just like most of us, that is incredibly important to her and was important to her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now her Dakota name, which is, I believe the name that your tribe gives you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's, you've pressed an incorrect key. Thanks so much. I know what Dakota is. Thank you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But something that Savannah was really focused on in the last couple of years that she was with her family and something that was really bothering her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was constantly hearing that Native American and Indigenous women were disappearing without a trace or turning up murdered all over the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 84% of indigenous women have been the target of those crimes. And how isolating it must feel to have no one helping.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The problem, which honestly is something that we've touched on in the past, I think in your episodes that you did on Willie Picton, you gave us so much great information about the problem and what we can do about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's just that these cases are not investigated, they're not reported on. No. There's all kinds of arguments about what jurisdiction they belong in because certain, like the actual police departments think that it's not in their jurisdiction and then there's like tribal law force and just like so much red tape. Great area. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like, when, when are we going to do something about it? But I feel like a lot of people think like, I don't know what to do about it. So, but there are a ton of resources, which I'm sure you're going to tell us too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They just keep putting me perfectly into my next point. Here I am. Here I am. Good to meet you you great partner. I'm just ushering you through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you really are. No, I actually have like a ton of great sources that I'll link in the show notes and we'll talk a little more about those at the end. But I just want to tell Savannah's story first and then I hopefully like, hopefully I can share those and you guys and us and all of us weirdos together can actually do something about that. Yeah, absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, cool. But just wanted to get that out there in the beginning. I think we're in a mutual, like, brain fog. Like, just together. Like a community brain fog.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that we're all in a place of what the hell is happening brain fog. Yea, we truly are. Alright, so on with the story. Let's go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Back in the summer of 2017, there was a lot going on in Savannah's life. She was living in that apartment with her parents and her brother, but she was also eight months pregnant and expecting a baby girl that she and her boyfriend were planning to name Haisley Jo. Oh, adorable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Savannah had just celebrated her 22nd birthday. She had also just become a CNA. Also got a new job working with the elderly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like the most, and on top of that, she was planning on getting a new apartment with her boyfriend Ashton. Good for her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like just, like starting their lives together. Yeah. Like you said, she was determined. She was hardworking. It's like very clear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's so clear. She was like, she was truly a Leo woman. Yeah. Well, Ashton, her boyfriend, was also a member of the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe. And from the sounds of it, like everybody was really excited for the two of these guys to start their family together. I love that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, you'll love this, they had known each other since middle school, and they started dating in high school. Meaning, at the time they were expecting little Haisley Jo, they had already been together for about seven years. Oh my god. Stop it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Like, that's, that's a fairy tale. It is. You know. And when Selena found out that she was pregnant, Ashton actually was living and working in Minneapolis, which is about four hours from where she and her family were in, uh, Fargo, North Dakota.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like you can tell when people are just ready to like go through it all together, have already been through it together and are just like only thinking of their family and what they need to do to make it thrive. And it seems like the two of them were on the same page there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Her obituary would later point out those kids were a huge part of her life and everything she did revolved around them. So you know she would have been this amazing mother.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Absolutely. And just like the fact that like, that's like her niece and nephew and she's 22, but everything she does revolves around them. Like that tells you exactly who she is. That's how you are with the, with your nieces though.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god, stop it. It's true. We have a lot of stuff to do before that happens. But when it happens, you'll be great. I'll be vibin'. Oh my god, and Drew. Drew's gonna be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god, your youngest, can you quickly just tell that story? Oh my god, after, uh, after she got out of the hospital, uhm, the girls, my mother-in-law had taken the girls while we were in the hospital to get her like little stuffies just to cheer her up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she got the two stuffies and I asked her, what are you going to name them? And she held one up and said, I would like to name this one Drew Drew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You guys don't have cats, like she only knows my cat. She only knows Franklin and Lux, and I love that she sleeps with Drew Drew every night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're digressing. But Savannah is that kind of aunt, you know, where you're just like, you, when you decide to do it, if you decide to do it, you're going to be amazing at it. You can tell. Exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They are atrocious. They had been dating for about three years at the time they were in the apartment, but their relationship was completely volatile.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it wasn't a huge complex, there were only seven units within this building, so the neighbors knew where the sounds were coming from.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is. On one occasion, William actually threw Brooke into their bathtub and later pleaded guilty to assault. My god.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But just six months later, the police were called to the apartment again for another disturbance report. And sure enough, William was there when he should not have been.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the cops get there and they're like, you're not supposed to be here, like you're in trouble again, but it would not be the only time that he would violate these orders.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now talking a little bit more about her boyfriend William there, interestingly enough he actually sued his parents for child support when he was 16. Wow. So I can't imagine that he really had like an idyllic childhood. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Such a weird kind of like ironic piece of information there. Yeah, and it's like people, like they came together having this similar experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, exactly. Now, he also seems to have children. It appears that he has two children. And in 2012, he actually pleaded guilty to abuse or neglect of a child, which carries a felony. It carries as a felony.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, according to the Dickinson Press, back in 2011, William brought his young son to the hospital for medical care, and when the baby was checked out, it turned out that the baby had a fractured skull.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now this is going to fucking enrage everybody listening. Somehow he was only sentenced to one year in jail for this and got two years probation. This is what happens though. I feel like this kind of shit is not taken seriously enough and it happens all the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm like, how do you fracture your own child's skull and then just literally get slapped on the wrist? That's what happens. Fractured, like, not only like, just like fractured somebody else's skull because that is horrific in its own right, but you actually had a part in creating this specific human that you're abusing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's a baby. And it's a baby. What does a baby do to deserve any kind of abuse? Exactly. Exactly. All they do is rely on you for literally everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, and like it is your choice to have them. Yeah, and it's you're supposed to be a safe place for them. And it's like, it always breaks my heart to like think of these things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it happens so often and then they, it happens a lot that they get a slap on the wrist or it gets ignored and then the abuse continues. We've seen it like over and over and over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like the abuse keeps happening and eventually that kid gets murdered and then everybody's like, huh, weird, something should have been done. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what we're working with here. And just keep the information about that felony charge and plea in your back pocket because that's gonna come back later. Oh boy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So really just all around people in a shitty situation with just no motivation to better things for themselves, their family or anybody around them. Cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Savannah and her family, for clear reasons, didn't actually, uh, associate too much with these particular neighbors, but they were friendly enough, like her family, they would say hello in passing. Just like neighbors. If they needed to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She went down to Savannah's apartment specifically and she said, oh, you know, I've been working on sewing this dress and I just need to have somebody try it on so I can get like the final pins in place. So this, this is so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Planned. So planned. And it's so planned in a way that's like, hey, I know that she'll help me because she's a kind person and she'll do this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like let me just take full advantage of that. Yeah, of the good person that she is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She probably knew this is a young mother who's about to move out on her own. Of course she's gonna like do anything she can for a little extra cash. Of course. She's bringing a freaking baby into the room. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Savannah agreed and she was like, oh sure, like I'll be up in just a minute.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she told her mom, she was like, Oh, like, I'm just going to go help out this lady. But just so you know, I just ordered a pizza. Like I left the money over there. It's going to be coming soon. So if it gets here while I'm here, like blah, blah, blah, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And before turning to leave, she commented to her mom and said something along the lines of, you don't think this lady's crazy, right? And her mom said like, of course I don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How would she know that they're upstairs neighbor who they honestly probably felt bad for knowing that the cops were coming all the time. How could she know that she was planning exactly what she was? She couldn't. She 100% couldn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And normal happy like sweet people do not assume that this woman that's asking this pregnant woman to come down to her apartment to help her out is gonna do something at all. Like no one would ever think that, that's just never.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, I know I'm this way, I'm like, I don't want to help anybody. Like, I'm not. A trap. You just don't know. That's the thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All I know is that it was clearly just something to say to confuse Savannah and start a fight. Oh yea, just to start it off on like an aggressive kind of note.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly. So at some point, it started off aggressive, it gets more aggressive and escalates.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had to go through like getting a doctor's note, cause like, at that, you'd have to be like super careful cause you can like go into labor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was a big whole thing and I got so freaked out that I didn't go at the last second because I was like, I feel so helpless and like vulnerable and I, I just don't want to be in a vulnerable position while pregnant with someone I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's coming, just so you know. Skip forward. Oh yeaah. So she knocks Savannah unconscious to the ground and then she goes and gets some kind of knife from the kitchen. It was just like nobody knew exactly what kind of knife it was. It could have been like a utility knife. It could have been a kitchen knife. I'm not sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she cut Savannah from hip to hip and performed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And luckily, I'm just gonna let you all know right away, the baby lives. Oh, thank goodness. Unfortunately, Savannah would not survive this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was alive when the baby was quote unquote delivered, but she was essentially just bleeding out because she didn't have proper medical care. So she was alive when she cut that baby out of her stomach?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, you know that you are two monstrous pieces of shit when one of you can walk into your home on a random day and see a woman who has had a baby cut out of her womb on the floor and your first reaction is, is she dead?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would- You don't have any other questions? You're not completely blown away by the fact that there is a heart- like a wounded woman in your home right now? Like you don't- what? Not at all. Wow. Now, Brooke's response? I'm not sure. Please help me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What? I have no words. I have no words for these fuckers. I really like, wow. And they've both brought children into the world themselves. That's like a really wild thing to me. For her at least seven times. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was then that he grabbed a rope and manually, manually strangled Savannah to death to, to finish it off. What fucking, I can't say it enough, what fucking monsters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Absolute fucking monsters. Now, the- him, like, finishing-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything and with the rope was actually later debated because some people thought that it was actually Brooke who had done that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And his past tells us everything we need to know about who he is. He's a violent person. It's very clear. Yeah. They are irredeemable. They truly are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because her mother, Norbetta, started panicking because Savannah hadn't said she was going anywhere other than upstairs. And when she hadn't come back down after a little bit, Norbetta actually went upstairs and knocked on the door to see like, oh, like, what's going on? Like, where is she?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Brooke told her that Savannah had actually left her on 2.30 that afternoon. Meanwhile, she's literally on her bathroom floor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And of course, this doesn't make any sense to Norbetta because Savannah had not returned home, her wallet was left in her and her family's apartment, her car was parked in the driveway, and on top of all of that, she hadn't answered her cell phone at all that day, and that was just nothing that she would do, and her cell phone wasn't anywhere to be found.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she, when she left, she was like, hey, I ordered a pizza. If it gets here before I get back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How, like, such a regular day that would be. Yeah, you just ordered a pizza. Like, it's just like crazy to think that she


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like to think of her actually like dialing the phone, ordering that, and then going upstairs, like. Having no idea. So haunting. It really is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Norbetta obviously has no choice but to call the police and report her daughter missing. And she tells them the last place that she knew Savannah was going was upstairs and she hadn't seen her since then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now obviously the police know these people well, so they come upstairs, they knock on the door about 5pm. They search around the apartment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they find nothing. Oh, come on. Which is wild, because there's a baby. Are you kidding? And a deceased young woman inside of this apartment somewhere. What the fuck? Yeah, didn't find the baby. Didn't find anything. Newborn, like a legitimately newborn baby. Yup. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, they come back the next day. They do another search. They find nothing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And these two pieces of shit have a very long history of violence and being pieces of shit. Oh yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Brooke would later tell the investigators that while the police were searching their apartment the first time, Savannah's body was hidden in the bathroom closet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So all they would have had to do is open that closet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have saved her life, but it's like, you could have found the baby way sooner. Yeah, exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Under blankets. Under blankets. That's safe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and like she later said that like she took the baby to Walmart like at night. So she was just walking around this community where everybody knows that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like what has gone on? And nobody's like turning around and noticing this. And no one see, like, and the thing that's killing me is like even people who did probably see this person, it's like they're seeing Savannah's baby and they don't even realize it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. But the thing is, this, this couple was said to be under surveillance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, apparently, like, at work, William wasn't so careful with his words, and had mentioned something about taking care of a baby to a few of his coworkers, and they were like, what the fuck? And,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody, again, remember I mentioned this is not a big apartment building. It's like seven units. People within the apartment building started hearing a baby crying. Oh my god.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But either way, the people who heard that and the coworkers put two and two together since


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the co-workers actually went to the police on August 23rd, which was four days after Savannah had gone missing with their information.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, with this pretty big lead, the police were able to get a full-blown search warrant, which they served the next day. And when they did, they luckily found the newborn baby alive and well and found Brooke and William just taking care of the baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fact that their plan here was just to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we ripped this baby out of a poor woman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did, how did you figure that out in your head that this was gonna work? That's wild. How did you figure out in your head that this was an acceptable, okay, appropriate thing to do? Well just, it, this is where like when we look into these stories, it takes my mind to like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just such a harsh place because I just think about it and I'm like, these people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Left their apartment building during the day. And there's no doubt, obviously, I mean, they talked to the mom while Savannah was in the apartment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like they're walking around knowing what they've done and knowing that they have her grandchild and knowing like Ashton, knowing they have his baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yup. And they're walking around acting like this is, and it's not killing them. Like this hasn't destroyed them from the inside out as humans. You have to be a sick, messed up, fucked in the head individual. You're not a human.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was September 11th when she was finally reunited with her family, and it had been three weeks since she'd been found. Ugh, they were probably so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just like her mama. I was just gonna say that. I'm looking at pictures because Savannah is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Beautiful. Just breathtaking, like breathtaking. And oh my goodness, she is the cutest. She is the sweetest babe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, she takes your breath away, this baby. And she really, she really looks just like her mama.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She does. And there's a, um, there's a Facebook group. I'm not sure if that's what you're on right now, but I'll link that too. And the family will give like periodic updates about how she's, how the kid, the baby is doing. Oh, I love that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think she's gonna be like five pretty soon. Oh my god, she's so beautiful. Oh, and she looks like her dad too. She's got like a perfect mix. She really does. Oh man, she's like gorgeous.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, for real. So Brooke and William were, uh, quickly arrested. Thank goodness. But they refused to give any information on Savannah's whereabouts. What pieces of fucking shit. Every time, like, you think it's gotten as bad as it could possibly get from the two of them, it gets worse.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, it would be another three days before Savannah's body was found. Her body was found Sunday, August 27th by a couple of people kayaking on Red River. Uhm, this is a little graphic just so you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Horrific, but also kind of lucky because I don't know how soon she would have been found otherwise. Yeaah. Thank goodness she was found. A total of eight days. Now with the medical examiner, so bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When the medical examiner finished the autopsy, they claimed that it was clear this woman was a victim of homicidal violence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ugh, that like, just gave me chills. I knew this already and it gave me chills again too, just, and you know what? She really was. Yeah, she, ugh, I just, I hate that this baby was robbed of her as a mother.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And like, that's the thing, like such a great mom. Like somebody that would have like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now of course, Brooke and William turn on each other as soon as they are brought into custody and they're told that the body is found.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Brooke told the investigators that on the day she went missing, Savannah had asked her how to induce early childbirth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She then told the authorities that Savannah came back two days later in the middle of the night. She had a newborn baby and she asked Brooke to take the baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow, Brooke, not only are you an actual piece of shit, but you are the worst liar I've ever heard in my life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She did badly. She told the court that she had lied to her boyfriend William earlier that year about being pregnant because she knew that he wanted a baby really badly and she thought that was going to save their relationship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A baby isn't going to fix you to being pieces of shit together. That's not going to help.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now he demanded that she quote unquote produce a baby for them. Cause that's how that works. You just produce a baby. Who are these people?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would, they would think that I had just done some kind of magic trick because I would exit from that premises so quickly. I'm just astounded that these two are violent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Awful toxic people in a toxic, violent, awful relationship and they were like, let's bring a newborn into this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that sounds good, right? And not only that, but like, let me forcibly tell you to bring a newborn into this. Like, produce a baby. What?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He just said that when he got home from work that night that all this happened, he walked in the door.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And just be like, this is our family now. Whoa. No, it's not. Like that is not your family. That is not yours. You stole that in the worst imaginable way. I, that's just it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he just, and like you said, he just doesn't, he's just like, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, Brooke ended up pleading guilty to all the charges that I listed earlier, and she did apologize on the stand, saying, I'm just really, really, really sorry. I wish I could take their pain. I wish I hadn't done this. There's no excuse. There's no rationalization. There's nothing. I know it doesn't help, but I'm sorry. I'm guilty, and I deserve every year that I get. Yeah, Brooke, you know what you can do with that apology.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just started off with, I'm really, really, really sorry. Like listen Brooke, you're not a teenager that just like got a ding on her dad's new red convertible. Exactly. You took a human life, you took somebody's daughter, you took somebody's sister, you took somebody's mother, and then on top of that, you took that person's baby. And just to be, I'm really sorry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm really really really sorry. I'm really sorry that I decided to plan out inviting her over to my home where I could ambush her and then cut a child out of her womb.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and then to say I deserve every year I get, we know. Yeah, exactly, and it's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd rather them just say silent. I don't think any of them should be allowed to say I'm sorry. 100%. We just have that thought at the exact same time. Because sorry means absolute dog shit at that moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you don't have to be sorry if you just don't do it. That's why we have a filter in our head that says that's probably a bad idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Murdering another human being is something you should never get to the point of having to be sorry for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Put that everywhere. Like you said, like it's not like you dinged your dad's convertible, oops, that, yeah, sorry. Didn't mean to do that. That was a, that was my bad moment. Like, whatever, but it's like you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] System you like plan to this out meticulously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh huh. And you put this poor woman who's already vulnerable in like eight months pregnant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In danger, and then you cut the baby from her womb and then murdered her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then stole that baby and then acted like it was yours. That's just beyond my comprehension. That's good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And for the conspiracy to commit kidnapping the judge also imposed the maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. So she got the maximum on almost every charge. Good. As she should.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when the public gets a hold of this story, a few other people come forward with experiences that they also had with Brooke that now made them even more uncomfortable than they previously had in the past. Oh no.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This woman at lunch says that this was 100% Brooke and she was actually with William. Oh my God, I hate this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The woman, who is Brooke, comes over to their table to compliment the baby and apparently just kept staring at the baby and repeating, she's exactly what I want. Oh my god.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm like, that just gave me full chills. I would be like, you need to get away from my baby right now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And these poor people, they're trying to be, like, polite. You're trying to be, like... Yeah. Like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now this man who she was married to, I think they were only married like a couple months, and he found different journals of hers and found out that she not only had a bunch of kids living in America, because she had told him that she didn't have any children.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He found that, all of that out, but also found- Imagine doing that when you have kids. Like imagine your kids finding out later that you were like, yeah, I don't have kids.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Scissors, gloves, clamps, just- She was planning to do this a long time ago. Bizarre shit dude, absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You asked a lot of questions and the answer to all of them is no.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, like yeaah, we can have two different personalities for sure. I'm a Gemini, I'm all about that. But like, not one of them includes stealing a baby from the mother's womb. Yeaah, and not all of us have that like, nasty dark side. No. Like, sorry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh absolutely, not a doubt in my mind. Yeah, not a doubt in my mind. Which is wild because I'm like, you have actually seven chances at getting good at this. Like, at really like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like, or even just give a shit about. Like you, you couldn't even, you couldn't even give one fuck. You had no fucks to give about seven other kids. And it's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like, I wonder if she left these kids after they were not like in that baby phase anymore, like maybe she's just this


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe. I know that her oldest daughter who ended up having to sue her for child support, she left, I believe she left when she was like younger and then actually became like more involved in the child's life when she was like 13 or 14 and then just vanished again. So I think she was kind of one of those that like maybe goes in and out or


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For some of them she did that and then for other kids she just completely abandoned them. My god. It just seemed to be a hot mess. I don't get it. And I feel so bad for all the kids. Yeaah, they deserve better. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And for people that were married to her, like, I can't imagine finding that out, like- Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Moving on now to William. He had also been charged with the same counts that Brooke pleaded guilty to. Uhm, he was acquitted on the charge of conspiracy to commit murder because they were not technically able to determine how Savannah died, like they couldn't say if it was the strangulation or if it was from bleeding out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they also couldn't determine whether he really did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the prosecution though, they wanted to be sure that they could obviously get this guy put away for a long time and they were really banking on a life sentence. So in order to do so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now they were specifically citing, obviously, the 2011-2012 incident and felony charge of neglecting or abusing a child. So at first, that worked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The judge, Judge Tom Olson sentenced William to a life sentence in prison saying later, I knew the only fair and just sentence would be the maximum allowed by law. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That the previous charge used to label him as a dangerous offender.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is why the justice system is broken.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is why, and this is a perfect example, he was charged with abuse or neglect of a child.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is what happens though. I feel like it's, we see it all the time. They say, they look at that and they go, well, that doesn't really tell us anything. Really? Because I think it's worse than in person who kills an adult.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anybody who hurts or murders a child is a whole different kind of beast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That we can't ever let walk free. Like. No. No. And for some reason in this country we take it like it's not as big a deal. It's the same thing as like abusing or killing animals. It's like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't take it seriously for some weird fucking reason and it is such an indication of such shit to come and for some reason we're still just, nope, not a big deal. No, it's fine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yeaah, so he gets retried, he gets re-sentenced, and his new sentence was 20 years in prison, excuse me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Plus one year to be served consecutively.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He got credit for time served which was 775 days. Are you shitting me? Nope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This man is gonna walk around in less than 20 years. Yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Glad you get ours, we don't get yours. Lock the key, rotten there. Rotten there. Like, I'm all for...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And not only how horrific this one instance was, but that they have this habitual


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A pathology of behavior. This isn't one, even this one instance I'd be like, I can't understand how you come back from that and become a human being. I don't get it. But you tack on all that other shit, that pathology of abuse and violence and just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Piece of shitness? And you're telling me that man is gonna come out of prison? A changed person? Like, I don't buy it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, and to sit there and be like, I'm not even mad about it. Nobody fucking asked if you were mad about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want you to be. Like, don't, you just did that to be like, meh, like, doesn't fucking matter to me. I don't care.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a boo boo, like fuck off. Yeah, no one asked how you felt about your sentencing you piece of garbage. That's actually not a part of this. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But obviously Savannah's family was incredibly upset and her mother's response was, we want justice. He deserves a life sentence. I don't think this man should ever walk free. He betrayed our family. He looked us in the eye with a straight face while our daughter lay dead in his apartment. Please don't ever consider letting him out. Is there anything that can be done?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess that you would just have to call, like, representatives in North Cara- er, excuse me, uh, North Dakota and ask for him to not be released, but I-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow. It's crazy. It's crazy. And she's right. He walked by that family every single time he saw them since he knew what happened to their daughter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And just looked at them knowing full well where their daughter was, where their grandchild was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It really is. Now, gearing things back to Savannah now, almost a thousand people attended her funeral.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a plaque with her name nailed to a tree by the bridge and not too far from the bridge there's this like giant beautiful sunflower field which is so beautifully ironic because that was Savannah's favorite flower. Oh, I love it. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, in the aftermath of Savannah's murder, a lot of those close to her, specifically her parents, felt that the Fargo Police Department just did not do enough. They felt like the reaction was far too slow when she was first reported missing and then


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't even know how they sat there and knew that law enforcement was in that apartment multiple times while Savannah and the baby were both in that apart- and it's not even like a house, it's an apartment. That's the thing. How did you not hear them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, David Todd, the chief of police, basically said something along the lines of like, the investigation would have gone differently if we knew that the person we were searching for was dead. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that's actually, those are the same things. Well I feel, and it's like, isn't part of like, investigatory work not going in with a preconceived narrative of what has happened there? You don't know what's happened. You're just looking for that person. You go in and you let


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not at all. Now, tribal leaders across North Dakota were outraged and demanded that something be done, and luckily something was done. Ooh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, former North Dakota Attorney General and former North Dakota Senator Heidi Heitkamp proposed Savannah's Act, which would require that the Department of Justice, and this next part that I'm gonna say is straight from the congress.gov site,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, quote, provide training to law enforcement agency, eh, agency, sorry, on how to record tribal enrollment for victims in federal databases. Develop and implement a strategy to educate the public on the national missing and unidentified person system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Develop regionally appropriate guidelines for responses to cases of missing or murdered Native Americans. Provide training and technical assistance to tribes and law enforcement agencies for implementation and developed guidelines and report statistics on missing and murdered Native Americans.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] First of all, like I'm so glad that that happened and I'm so glad it's called Savannah's Law.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, Savannah's Act, I love that. Savannah's Act, but how sad is it that it took this long? Just for it to be like, hey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We should probably train police forces on how to just try to look for these people. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it took that long. And then it's sad that somebody decided to do their fucking last move in office blocking this bill. Are you kidding me? No, I'm not. So what is the reason?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Increased communication between federal, state, and tribal officials.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said, you know, I agree with the bill overall, but I just want, I reject that certain provision.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Luckily Savannah's law was passed and it wasn't, but it wasn't signed into law until October of 2020. That's wild. It's absolutely insane. I'm glad it was passed though.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm glad it was passed too, and a second act, the Not Invisible Act, was brought alongside it, and that act is to quote unquote, increase intergovernmental coordination to identify and combat violent crime with Indian lands and of Indians.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wanna point out that obviously I know you're supposed to say Native Americans, but for some reason a lot of the language still says Indians. I don't know why they're not changing that. If there's like, if like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And actually last Thanksgiving, they had this campaign called Pass the Red Purse, where they told stories of like their struggles as Indigenous people and specifically women.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm also going to link the Safe Women Strong Nations campaign that's being organized by the Indian Law Resource Center.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And again, so I saw Indian being used there too, so I'm not sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want to say the right thing and that's what that place is called and it seems as though they're doing like great things for indigenous people, so. So let us know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, because guys, when we did, uh, the Katie Hawelka case, and I linked to that petition, you guys got that petition blown up. That thing went from 8,000 signatures to the last I looked at it, it was like 40,000. Yeah. Uhm, you guys, and you guys did that. You did that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's go flood these sites with donations if you're able to. If you're not able to do donations, there's so many other things you can do. There's numbers you can call, there's events that you can do, and let's just do that all in Savannah's name.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, let's do it and we'll link all of this stuff so it'll be easier for you guys to follow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And obviously that was incredibly difficult in the beginning, like your whole life is turned upside down. You're mourning the woman that you were with for seven years of your life, and then you're a dad, like all at once.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can't imagine that. But he said that he's got a good rhythm going now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That update, I mentioned that the family, Savannah's family has a Facebook page where they update anybody interested and I was looking through it the other night and I saw that there's actually a GoFundMe set up right now for Ashton.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm not sure what happened, uhm, basically the family, like his family is saying that he's very private and they don't want to let all the information out. But there's a GoFundMe set up for him and it says basically that he's like fighting for his life and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know, yeah. Geez. Well, let's make sure we blow that up and we make sure we do whatever we can in Savannah's name here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Definitely. That is the case of Savannah LaFontaine Grey Wind and she deserved so much more. Yes she did and so did her family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Crazy. It's a crazy world. Man, that was a tough one, but thank you for sharing it because it needed to be shared.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're welcome. And again, I'll put all of that information that I kind of like flooded you with at the end that will all be in the show notes. Yeah, definitely. I can also see if we can get that posted on social media as well. Perfect. Sweet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We hope that you keep listening, guys. And we hope you keep it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's, and it's a thing they can do together, a lot of la la.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's sad. And I think that's another thing that the media does is I'm sure there are photos of Chambonet where she looked like Chambonet. Exactly. She didn't look like, she wasn't all done up in a big glitzy crown and dress and everything. Like let's show a picture of her and her friends, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, how is he gonna be well rested? You've kidnapped his child. And also, like, why do you care? Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I love Simply Safe because I love the fact that if I hear a noise outside and I'm like home by myself or even if I'm not and I'm just freaked out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All I have to do is literally click the SimpliSafe app on my phone, click the camera outside and I can see everything. Everything is like crystal clear and a lot of times, I mean every time it's just an animal or something like that and I can see that and it makes me feel better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are HD security cameras for inside your home and outside your home, smarter ways to detect motion that only alert you when a threat is real, and even hazard sensors that instantly detect fires, floods, and other threats to your home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think those are great to have in general, but especially if you're somebody that's not home super often, maybe you travel for work or something like that, you know while you're gone that your home is safe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have always been a big fan of planning ahead. Scheduling trips months in advance, plotting out my next career move, figuring out what I'm doing for dinner while I'm still eating breakfast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Knowledge is power, and when you know more, you can make better decisions for your body, your health, and your future. There aren't many bigger decisions than having a kid, but for many women, their fertility is a big question mark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which again, if you're going in to kidnap a child, like you would think quickly, you would come prepared with a ransom note. That's the thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the practice. That's the thing. And I would love to know if it was ever asked, like, where do you keep this pen, not this pen, excuse me, this pad of paper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well that's the thing. No. Because I think because it wouldn't fit the narrative that this was business.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's that. Wouldn't you also think though, I don't know about the, like, it was the bank slip on the table, but wouldn't you think that you would ask for more because you're like, oh, if he just deposited that much into his account, then he must have more. He probably has money, and like, you're looking around this beautiful home. That's the thing, the 118,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, and that's the thing, like, if you know him and you know him well, you know that he's wealthy and why wouldn't you shoot your shot to get more?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And wouldn't you also think that you would take the practice note with you or throw it


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just think it would be like a completely, if you were gonna sit down and write a letter and we all know that she was in the basement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And presumably, and I know we're gonna get into this, presumably also stopping for a snack. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and even in their reports, like it's not definitive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember watching, I think it was a few years ago, I actually think it was right around the time that you had covered this case, uhm, I remember seeing the handwriting myself and the comparison, it's very similar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, definitely weird, but you're panicking, you're trying to run around, I don't even know if she woke John up at this point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember listening to the 911 call again when that documentary came out and I heard the exact same thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can listen to all that you want and more get added every single month. Personally, I think it's so much easier sometimes when you have like a really packed schedule to listen to a book versus read it, cause you know, you might not always have the time, although I do really miss reading. But you still get that like fun feeling of starting a new book with Audible and that's what I really like about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It makes it super easy to manage all your shipping from one simple dashboard and then you're probably going to get more sales because you're selling on more places. Maximize your sales with minimal effort. That's ideal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and she's, did she say previously that like when she had woken up she put makeup on? She didn't say that, I heard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's like, protocol. That's what's always done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's crazy. Like they didn't separate them. I've had experiences where like the police have had to come to my home when I was younger and every single experience that I ever had with police, everybody in my home was separated and it wasn't even about a kidnapping. No, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, and we've said before, like, oh, kids will sleep through anything because like, you know, it's not their problem. If your mom is screaming, you're gonna wake up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I also, and this is just me and this is an opinion, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you would assume that they didn't, you would 100% assume, had you read that note, if they didn't call, they know all these people are at the house, I'm clearly being closely watched and they killed my daughter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You would go upstairs and say, by the way, that window was open. I just realized that is potentially how this person got into my home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think a lot of times guys, I've been talking to you about this lately, a lot of us focus on our problems and we're like, uh, uh, uh, you know, I'm so sad and everything's wrong and we don't worry about our solutions, how we're going to fix it, how we're going to start to get better. It can be tough to train your brain to stay in problem solving mode and you don't really want to when you're faced with a challenge in life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, when you learn how to find your own solutions, there's really no better feeling. A therapist can help you become a better problem solver, which is going to make it easier to accomplish your goals no matter how big or small they are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Me personally, I love being in therapy because I feel like it's my one hour a week just to go talk to somebody about all my problems. I can let everything out from the week. I definitely recommend a Friday appointment. I think it's perfect because you're like, wow, all of this happened to this week. Please tell me how to deal with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they can just give you a little guidance, give you a little insight on how you can better approach certain situations in your life. And for me personally, I know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're still thinking about giving therapy a try, BetterHelp is a great option. It's convenient, accessible, affordable, and it's entirely online. Get matched with a therapist after filling out a brief survey and switch therapists at any time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

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[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why would you say I don't think he meant to kill her? When you were left that ransom note.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And is that where John just had gotten in himself?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's weird that you think you would even be capable of taking that meeting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's no kidnapper on the loose is what you're telling me? How, what says that? What are you talking about?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Decades before Anna Delvey began scamming her way into high society, Christian Karl Gerhart's writer was infiltrating America's most elite circles with little more than a fake name and a lot of charm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bold, ruthless, and willing to kill, Gerhart's writer embarked on a caper across the West Coast, successfully evading the FBI for decades. Hi, I'm Saachi Cole, co-host of Wondry's podcast, Scamfluencers, where we unpack the lives and schemes of some of the biggest scammers and con artists.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In our recent two-part series, Three Weddings and a Funeral, High Society's top social circles become a playground for a fraudster. Follow Scamfluencers wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondry app.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was a night like any other. We ate some dinner, we chatted for a bit about school and work, and everything seemed normal. And then suddenly, I was gone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We got to just like type something into our computer and look at it and then click it and be gone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, just an odd thing that even if it did happen, cause why would you believe otherwise?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, war is crazy man. I would not doubt that that could happen to somebody coming back from that type of experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like I know that this story is going to turn and I'm not going to want to like defend this person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I know, but right now he's only guilty of being excited around corpses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can like, we just request maybe some police presence here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you know, he thought this guy was doing him a favor, he's trying to take it off him a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, she doesn't know there's two women buried in the garden.