[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, there's somewhat preserved and so on, but if you go further back, there's this kind of animal totems and each one of the gods correspond to it. So sort of the Atmorean religion, and I guess we can kind of like talk about the animal totems of Atmore, because if we isolate the non-elven factors of, of uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, in terms of the Nords or just- Well, animal totems. Well, I have, I have one area one prompt, which I just think is interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dibella is an exclusively, what seems like an Atmoran god of origin, that basically that she came from, she's only in the Divines because of the synthesis of the two, but Dibella is really only found in


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mortality and sort of enjoying mortality and what they exist on, which would be completely antithetical to an elven sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I, I've got to, if you want, do you want to play the symbolism game a little bit further? But, Dibella is also, as an animal totem, is depicted as a moth. In other words, go, what's the moth, what's the significance of moths and the Elder Scrolls is the ancestor moths and the ancestor moths and connect to being connected to, uhm, the Elder Scrolls and like the reading of Elder Scrolls and you could even look at that as like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe the fabric of the realm or something like that. But I was trying to sort of string together some, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, if that's, uh, excuse me, remember, and for everyone listening,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was thinking of that insect god that they worship. Did someone have the quote right there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeaah, maybe, I don't know, maybe it's a stretch, just go, oh, moth, insect kind of connection or something, maybe it could be developed. We, we speculated about that. Um, I feel like the speculation's been spread out across multiple videos, um, about who that insect god is. And I'm pretty sure there was even a talk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With, uh, Reddit AMA or something with Michael Kirkbride maybe. And I think it was, that was mentioned and he even sort of was leaning towards the idea that, you know, there could be more, some gods don't have to necessarily be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A daedric prince, it doesn't have to be Mephala or Dibella or anything like that exists.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another thing to support that too, it was the Men of Gi they sacrificed, right? Wasn't it? So- As well as a bunch of different Nidic tribes. Yeah. Well, if you can assume, okay, maybe less so, but Men of Gi being named, it's interesting if you were to go like, so Men of Gi, you would assume needs who worship Magna Gi perhaps or associate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The only reason the saying it is Namira as sort of an ancient darkness being like, and you know, in some people even so closely associate her with the void.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you know what I mean? Like the dark vessel. I mean, there's a few things, the insect gods is just a name. So it's, it's this elusive insect god that we can keep in our mind to speculate. But I guess what's also interesting is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It depends whether you buy into the Atmorin migration sort of stuff, which I'm, I do and don't, it depends of the needs coming to, to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's interesting is to, to think about what kind of religion the needs may have had or so basically, like if you can think of it in Cyrodiil, like pre-alered, um, uh, slavery and so on, but almost before like the elves colonized broadly, um, you could,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's, there's only a few examples of where we can think about it. Stars seems to be a decent part with the Duraki needs, the star worshipping stuff. And, um, and if you attach the Men of Gi to that, you've also got like, there's another needed group of star worshipping. And I think also that just evokes like, you know, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In our real world, humans like forever have looked at the stars and the heavens and so on for like, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's got a very ancient feeling to say, oh, star worshipers, you know what I mean? But perhaps, um, Magna Ghee, um, and the stars in general, um, played a bigger role amongst some of the Nidic tribes. Because if you think about it, what other gods would they necessarily, um, have?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I'll throw, I'll throw another thing at you too to consider. Um, I agree. And, and maybe there is more Daedric worship amongst the common needs than you'd think. And the reason I suggest that is, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because amongst the Reachmen and we have those idea that I think we posit in one of the previous podcasts mentioned that the Reachmen got all of this Daedric worship sort of from somewhere. Um, and then you would assume that it's from


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we were to consider that Aedra and Daedra as a dynamic of basically good and bad sort of came along with, um, the elves of Somerset.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, who sort of develop this sort of, uh, uh, idea and then they go forth. Whereas you find people like, uh, groups like the Khajiit and also the Reachmen that don't make these distinctions. They just, everything's a great spirit. It's big, but they don't have this really like, ooh, this Daedra, they're evil, they're off limits. So a lot of early needs, especially when you think if you were to go really like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and also its proximity is close to the reach, but basically my suggestion would be that the reach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because of its location almost becomes like a little bit of an isolate. It's, it's been conquered multiple times, but, and has preserved some of the religion and stuff or some of the religious elements that might've been further spread across, um, Turmeria.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely, especially when, like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, we always say like a lot of the aedric, like the, the vines or whatever are kind of like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We should also just clarify, like, uhm, it's an interesting idea for sure, and I do like somewhat agree as well, but there's a distinction between this sort of idea of like the aedra or whatever we know, the divines or whatever, that basically gave up their power and creation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being a little bit more of like an unconscious kind of, uh, being, you don't really interact with them as much as they're supposed to, Deidre would show up and like have their own sort of agency and so on. So, but I agree, like it could be interesting that the backwards influence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It made me remember something that I was gonna say that further gives us a little more clarity, like, well, it's just a theory.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just a game theory, but potentially, uhm, we could go, you could look at Tamriel and suggest, so how the alyds begin. The alyds come from Somerset and they establish some kingdoms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, well, they're not really, they're like sort of paying tithes and whatnot back to Somerset or so on, but eventually they separate themselves. Um, and obviously they start up the whole like slaving Shamu thing. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I was thinking though is that we've already got like the Men of Gi and the Drakkenies of Star Worshipping. I was thinking that, especially as a Daedra as well, Meridia might have actually played a decent part in, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the Nidic, uh, mythologies, um, at the time and also considering, and I was thinking that basically the alyds came along.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alternatively, also if the men of gay, and maybe if you assume that religion was a little bit more widespread, they might have worshiped the Magna gay, but we know that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Meridia was like the bad Magnegie, they got cast out and so on. And maybe that's why the alyds, she worked with the alyds to enslave the others or the men who turned their back on her or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The one thing to consider too is also the population of elves and is never as high as men and so on, I guess controlling large.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, like in the chrono, in the, I don't know if, when Dwemer really, it's really hard to place, but when they really come into power, like some of the ex, there's some dates for the expansion over like, um, Skyrim, which I think is a little incongruent with some of the information that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When the fowl mug, cause they kinda need to be there at the same time as the snow elves. So when the snow elves get beat out by


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, had to be there, they had to be there around that time. But I don't know how powerful because remember the Dwemer still.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, you know, they got conquered by, by a bunch of shouting, screaming nords along with others, and at the same time, they were like competing with, uhm, other,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, the tribal Khmer and so on, well, actually it was Hivalothi culture at that point. Uhm, at first, then they would have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whereas if you have a crossbow or better technology and stuff, the other tribes have magic and all of this kind of stuff. They have like technology power, but through magic they can sling fireballs and summon demons and do all kinds of stuff. So it isn't as just a hard, you know what I mean? Hard leveling ground. Like it's not as slanted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's also worth noting, um, I just to people in general too is, is that the Richmond, and specifically you can imagine this is the way it is for a lot of the ancient Nidic tribes, like with specifics like, oh, Men of Gi, and then there's this other group that might not necessarily worship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Magnege the same is that there's no big sort of formalized religion. It's probably like a lot of our ancient religions are a little bit more like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Open source religions, they're like, they'll like take other gods they like and deities and so on. There's not really this sort of monolithic sort of monotheistic kind of, you know, doctrine as such. They're allowed to limit to degrees, but so what you could say is that there are lots of different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This one might really be into Namira, like the Ghostsong Clan, or there might be another that's really into cruel stuff and ripping hearts out or whatever, the Synthburn Heart or Fireheart or something where they rip their heart out and put coals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think what it seems like is needs sort of, I can't remember if there was needs in Morrowind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But also, Bosmer we can assume were there if you buy into the whole like, we came from the ooze, ifri shaped us kind of thing. We've always been in this green forest kind of thing. And then you assume the Khajiit come from a similar sort of thing. So the Khajiit were all there and that stacks up with the top of the pilots kind of thing, which is weird though. He didn't see the elves in Valenwood. Also weird. He doesn't see the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, area. And you can imagine some natural, like, Nidic tribes spread.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's maybe there's some Dwemer there. Man, maybe that's where they did get a thing for stars. Maybe the, the Dwemer have just started out or something. But it's so hard to like, for me at least, to think where did the Dwemer come from? Cause when the Kymer came there, they were able to contest them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's some theories that are that the Dwemer are actually just a split off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pre-trimunal, sorry, which is, you know, the worshiping the good Daedra and living as Ashlanders practically amongst the ruins of their old civilization. So yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so perhaps it is that kind of like, uh, split off or something, but basically what it's hard to say, it does, it sounds silly to me that, that the Argonians were heading up towards the Red Mountain area and so on and they encountered Dwemer. I still feel like it'd be this very untouched sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whereas if we go with the more modern sources, you've got like, uh, Bosmer and Khajiit definitely both there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you try to line up the timeline, I think the snow elves should be there, I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The same thing, he said he saw orcs, um, as, as well, which I.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Orcs that we know them today. They were called awesomer, but because they were tall and ugly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They got grouped in with other greenskins, the goblins, so they called them all orcs, but then later the goblins got smaller and they started calling them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. So it's, it's interesting. But, um, so yeah, so poking some holes, that one can maybe made sense of, but for the rest of it, it's kind of like, you could say that maybe I kind of liked the idea. And I think that if you think of the Dwemer having split off from the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From the Velothi, the high Velothi culture period and then sort of things progress from there because it explains why they aren't necessarily so significant and so on. The one thing is the Snow Elves is to think of, I don't know how they fit in, especially because there's books that talk about how, um, there were Nidic tribes throughout Skyrim and so on. So maybe they were, you know, a smaller group of survivors from Ultima or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they have a very similar religion to the Ultima, um, elves, but yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, one thing to consider too is perhaps the amount of time that it took for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When Isgrimor first came, if you go like always being at war with the Nords,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so we're claiming as an ancestral home, that's another thing. That's sort of the idea that they were born on that land. So maybe we could explore, maybe this could go further. So if you talk about, so there's Altamora, that elven kingdom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Nords were in armies of shore there, but they were created by kind on the throat of the world and they're all fighting and so on. But then there's the big sundering, right? Then there's Atmora is separated from.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It doesn't matter, they're at warren's, uhm, so basically at ultimora they kill off all the elves there, but there are some elves still left down here and basically, uhm, so the nords win against the elves up here and maybe some flee down, but there's basically refuges of those first northern elves that beat out


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause they've basically got the Allmaker and the Adversary and that's basically, more or less, it sort of seems like an Anupatame kind of dynamic going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, here's one theory in regards to that. So there's some, another early Nidic tribe kind of thing. There's this fat bee mother that's mentioned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. And I think there are a few sort of other animalish type gods and so on, but basically, cause you know, the bee, um, and beehive is a big, great, if you've got a hunter gatherer, like, you know, big source of calories, you could look at it as like nature's bounty. It's like one of the sweetest things you can find in nature kind of thing. So hunter gatherers, you can see how that kind of thing would.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But maybe some of the early tribes there actually, this Bee Mother thing was quite, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so on and so on. So I was actually thinking it was something that the Yakudans actually, um, adopted just in terms of the symbology and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, from that. So basically it makes me think though that the needs sort of, this beam other was sort of there like Mara kind of figure or something. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe also, potentially, it's not necessarily eagle or oriole. That sort of seems like it might be some later sort of some set kind of stuff. Maybe it, I mean, a bird person could correct me on this, but like, maybe it's trying to depict a hawk or even you could argue eagles, hawks, whatever. Cause the hawk is the symbol of kine and so on. That's relevant to that. Morenz kine created the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The proto nords at Moritz, whatever, on the throne of the world, they built this and then perhaps it's one of the last leftover things, uhm, in Skyrim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, after the sundering happened and then so the Nords come back, they come back and they've even forgotten that, you know, their connection to this eagle or whatever. They don't understand it, but they know that, that if you looked at it, it was actually. Which would be, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's an interesting sort of, uh, uh, way to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is about in the Merethic era and we've got no like concrete dates or amounts of time in the Merethic, very few. I think there's something like between a thousand and eight hundred and thousand years before the first era starts is the period when men supposedly started coming. That's the migration theory. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And Isgrimor's arrival based on, I think what Codlack Whitemane says about companions being like 5,000 years old, that that would place Isgrimor's return at around 500 years before the first era. So Isgrimor came then the whole, um, dragon cult thing sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rows up and all of that kind of stuff happened within the 500 years between Ysgramor's return and the start of the first era.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe before have been much much shorter because otherwise you've kind of extended this one artificially by another four and a half thousand years and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, it's interesting, but maybe that is why Akatosh, uh, made the pact to keep the Daedra out because the Daedra, it's just sort of like Akatosh became invested in sort of, let's just keep this one going instead of each Kelpa being this crazy relived war kind of thing. Hey, maybe in a way Akatosh or whatever being whatever doesn't want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then going forward. And then, you know, like, yeah, like you're sort of saying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting to see the way the gods fight over and how they like come into the next.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Into the next kalpo. At the end of the day, we can already talk about like, kalpo, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, saying that, yea definitely, that's a good connection that her seen one there too, cause he's kind of the, they call like the world of-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can see why it's so important, like the most basic fundamentals like Prey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty sure every single one has some sort of, at the, at the least a reptilian aspect. So Satacarl is envisioned as a snake. There's the Autumn of Snakes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] often appear as the villain and that's why dragons and stuff so on and it's been a, it's a very like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some anthropologists sort of, like, speculate, because it's a very natural, like, enemy, and very other, it's like, not a mammal, it's very, like, uhm...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a troublesome, uh, creature and then that's all become different things in their, uh, mythologies and symbolism and so on. But it's interesting that maybe that autumn of snakes is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe it's even a stylistic, uh, talk about Alduin trying to eat the world or something at that time, or maybe it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Literally on Autumn of Snakes, but maybe what I'm saying is the idea is that most things related to a world ending or beginning or the time cycle are always some sort of snake or reptilian kind of thing and perhaps it was maybe she actually did stop


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Granted metaphysical sort of meaning and spirituality, like kind of, I guess, almost like an early form of like animism kind of, kind of thing, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I'm always pretty convinced of that connection you said, the, the Hircene thing too, because between, I kind of getting a, maybe you guys are getting, the people listening are getting an image too, but the way I'm understanding the needs more, uhm, of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gazing element, like the stars seem prevalent across a few different groups at the, at the very least. The idea that the alyds sort of adopted perhaps the star worship and the star focus and stuff from the local needs that were there. But then also I sort of feel like this sort of her scene.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I went to mention this before, but when you're sort of bringing up like, you know, every, there's like books, you read book of the day, it's like, it's basically reads as like, oh, this is a book of evil spirits and these are the cults that are evil and follow them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if you look at a reachman perspective, a lot of them, it's just like, it just is the way it is. They're not necessarily evil or anything, but like, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To add that to just before I forget, uhm, the other star worshipping thing, the doom stones that are all hanging around the megalithic structures all throughout Cyrodiil, just more star worshipping, star focused stuff. But interestingly there too, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe, maybe that's not, well, cause to, if we're using the Reachman, which is also, it's a relatively close sort of, um, area, but if we're using the Reachman as a sort of like template to think about it, and if, if you sort of take the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I'm bringing disease and all of that kind of stuff was like compared to like, you know, forest fires that help regenerate things areas. It's like the natural sort of cycles of things. And then maybe in that way, peri-ite was like associated with like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe that's also a bad thing, like, you know, staving off the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The cycle, maybe that's that point of transition between sort of like the civilized because once you get to sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Civil, like, I guess you could look at the dichotomy between hunt and gather tribes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In general, this is very general to say, but even if our real world are very like, aww.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, exist in the world, the cycles and stuff, you live and die, a new generation comes, you know, you don't take too much from the forest because otherwise they won't come back. You know what I mean? It's very preserving of a cyclical kind of nature of things. But when you get to civilization, it's like, I want to last forever. This is really good. Let's get going. Go, go, go, go. So it might actually be, and things like writing about it, like the Reneviad or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, is comparable to like some of like, you know, our earliest sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, the Iliad written about, you know, the Iliads writing about Troy and stuff, which is set in the Bronze Age, which is really early times. Like you could sort of see that maybe that whole.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The tribes, originally Nidic tribes that worshipped Adrien basically didn't get as civilized as the stonemasons of the Duraki, because that's what they were known for, all of their stone, which also ties them again to the megaliths, the big doomstones and stuff, and the star worship that the needs were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I guess an interesting, and this is kind of the Dwemer point of view, but like what even classifies a god and usually it is, uhm, you would say like worship or the thing around it, like, you know, whether,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like the Dwemer for example, there's this con thing like, they call them like, uh, people get frustrated when they use the term atheist, right? But atheist is like not having a god and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can recognize, but they're like, oh, but gods are real in the world. Like, no, gods aren't real. The beings are real.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In regards to that, it's kind of like what constitutes a Daedric Prince, and usually we'll like say they like own a realm of oblivion, but like that, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do they get worshiped by other Daedra? Or like, do they have like, you know, how does that work? Or what, like what classifies as a God really? Like there might be systems of worship we don't know about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A pre, a pre, pre Elven Tamriel, the, it seems like a lot of exotic and interesting, because assuming the Khajiit are there, the early Khajiit are there and the Bosma are there and then you have like Nidic drives and all that kind of stuff. There seems like a lot of variation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It kind of always seems like the elves came along and they changed things a lot and made everything a lot more dogmatic. To be fair, it's not entirely their thing because when it was really, I guess, Alicia that kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean there was even the Elysian Order which was another really like further attempt at a sort of truth which is the closest thing to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably like the closest to the truth if you want to see, if you want to buy into like a, a Godhead kind of, you know, idea. But yeah, there's so much.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is up, ladies and gentlemen? Welcome back to Fudge Mopper. This is the Older Scrolls Podcast. I'm Scott, here with Michael and Drew, as always, and today we are talking all about the infamous cult that brought Tamriel to its knees, the Mythic Dawn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I feel like Meirin's Daegon, if you started with Daegon, you can start like going into all these other things that are less focused. So I think really we should start, so with Menkar Cameron, uhm, that sort of interesting character, and he is basically the formation of the Mythic Dawn. So he writes, uhm, the Mythic Dawn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Commentaries. So he's, he read or got access to, um, the Mysterium Xarxes and he interprets all of this kind of stuff and makes a commentary on it. And when people start reading those commentaries and sort of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, getting their hands on them. He sort of, over a long time it seems, uhm, builds up a cult. Because once again, he's like an elf and he's been around for a while.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I'd agree. It's like, and it's also, um, I think it's probably one of the most.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unique sort of takes on, on Daedra and everything, the whole of Mundus in general. And I think that might be what appeals to a lot of people as well. If it's not just a typical sort of Mearen's Dagon worship, where it's kind of telling you that Mearen's Dagon's secretly the good guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's like, yeah, Meryn's Dagon empowering the underdog, so wherever there is like some sort of authoritarian regime or great sort of power authority, he's, you know, the, whether it's, well, whether it was like, you know, the Forsworn sort of did it with, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the longhouse emperors being involved with Maren's Dagon and, and he's all like for ambitions and all that kind of stuff. They were quite intertwined. Um, and the witch is communicating with Dagon and so on. Um, to end using his powers and gifts and stuff to help them basically, uh, become the longhouse emperors. Um, you know, from these petty tribes, basically.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think they kind of like, uh, uh, kind of misled a little bit because like you sort of said, like they, they've talked to like, oh, you're going to have your own little paradise and everything and like Mencar Cameron's realm. And that's sort of what they're, they're promised, but like, uh, I guess a new, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A new beginning, like I feel like you could probably find like people, um, across all of Tamriel and stuff that have problems with the way societies are run and in their own existence. So promise some form of stupid question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You could probably say that their, um, a general opinion too is that, that the world is kind of unjust and not right in the way that, um, you know, a fundamental belief of the Mythic Dawn, um, and the Mythic Dawn commentary is everything that sort of espouses is that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lorcan is the rightful ruler of this realm and he was betrayed, it's like a Daedric realm and it was, uh, Mundus' and they were betrayed by, um, by the eight Daedra that you sort of know and then they overthrew him unlawfully, um, and, and that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The 8th day drove. So in that whole sort of idea, like there's even one of the, also we can kind of get into this later, but there's a whole bunch of mythic dawns


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sleeper agents throughout, uhm, throughout Oblivion in the game and like one of them is like a Elsa God hater and you know when you first meet that NPC she's talking about how she hates the Divines and all this kind of stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she's actually a Mythic Dawn sleeper agent too. So it like aligns perfectly. But, um, because the eight, you know, the divines, the eight, eight or whatever, they're such a fundamental piece of, of, um, you know, most religions and of Mundus in itself, it's a very like, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If, if you're against them, I feel like the Mythic Dawn really, uh, aligns in murder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's interesting too, like, I wonder if a good comparison could be, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, you know, if you do take the sort of thing at face value that like Lorcanus is Daedric Prince and Mundus is his realm, it's kind of like an equivalent is you could imagine that, you know, there is Boethiah and they've got her realm and then imagine like, you know, eight of her subservient, Dramora or something like that team up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, against her overthrow her and then become the dominant rulers of the, of the world. But because of that, in a way, it's kind of like they get, uh, disconnected or there's more like individual will put over than just operating on the sphere of, of, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of what's called, cause like, if you looked at, I love, you know, the Richmond, if you want to look at their view of Lorcan too, they, you could, you could argue in a way that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Lorcan as a, as a Daedric Prince kind of entity, if you were to envision of an operating within a sphere, but a lot of his, like you could go like his, um, like sphere is, is like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Suffering and like, and like, exist, and, and mortality, I guess like, and limitation and so on, like that's the whole principle, the foundation of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is kind of like, you know, Mundus gets called the, the gray maybe it's the potential or something. And it's like that sort of the meeting of the Anu and Padme. It's this, this middle ground of like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you could argue, like, I mean, even if you wanted to say, just let's say then, Lorcan is the, uh, a, it was a Daedric realm, right? Let's just pretend it was entirely, right? You could even say that it becoming a Grey Mabie is almost like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then there was this sort of potential born out of when, then when there was an uprising and an overthrow of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, by the Aedra or whatnot, it then created a realm that, uhm, is an in-between, it's a meeting of the two forces.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, cause it could, it could have been like an intentional, even as like, you know, the classic themes of like sort of trickster and fox and whatnot. It could even have even been like an intentional sort of ploy to create something, I don't know, a meeting of the two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, but I guess overall, if you use that as a context, I feel like maybe there is a believable way to run with, at the very least, that the Mundus used to be a Daedric Realm, and then the mingling with, like, Aetherius and Enjin and so on. Uhm, maybe there's a cool, like, video idea that can be, like, strung into a proper theory about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They would seemingly argue against the idea of, like, the Aetherius-y kind of stuff, any of that. They're very pro the idea. Lorcan was a rightful prince, he was betrayed, and they basically want to use, uhm, Mearon's Dagon to bring about the dawn once more, a time where everything's all...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Chaotic and flexible and mythic. Uhm, uh, so that Lorkhan can reclaim his, his rightful place as king of the world, I guess. You know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I also, just so, I just want to clarify too, I can't really, I think it might also be, um, not that they're accepting Lorkhan's dead, but Mehran's Dagon should take place of the world, but in place of Lorkhan, but like continuing on his legacy, I guess, in the way it's supposed to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd also in a way kind of wager like, I feel like, you know, at least make our Cameron and stuff are aware of this and so on. But like, I don't think that the followers truly grasp what's going to happen. Like if an oblivion crisis plays out successfully, like what's going to happen to like a return to the Dawn. Like it's not as, it's not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And I think we should talk to you like that, like we've sort of kind of said, but the Mythic Dawn, I think he's a unique one, a version of any sort of like Mehrunes Dagon worship is they're not just a Mehrunes Dagon cultist that you'd find hanging around shrines and so on. Or even by comparison, I'd even say like, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Creation Club canon kind of stuff, people, like, it's a bit up in the air, but it sort of seems more so, I guess. More, at least consider it more because it's part of an official release, but at least that's how I think about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, but there's the whole like cause, um, quest, quest line in, in Skyrim Anniversary Edition. And it, and it sort of runs with like a return of the Mythic Dawn. They're trying to like open an oblivion gate again and all of this kind of stuff. But even, even that I get the feel from that, I get the feeling that the Mythic Dawn's kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dead without main car camera, that main car camera really is the, the like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we have, we have to talk about, like, even the main car camera as being a centerpiece of that, uhm, one thing about that is really, really cool is pretty much confirmed that he made himself dragonborn basically, that he gave himself the dragon blood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The process I think is a bit more like complicated in the way that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like even Vivek for example, like he achieves Kim and everything and then all this stuff happens, but then he kind of comes back to sort of living God status and then eventually dies. But he's almost like Vivek's kind of like content with all of that and so on. And I wonder if it's some sort of part of the kind of experience or maybe perhaps the sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mortality seeps back in or something or the further your distance from mortality, if you become like some big Kim immortal God, you, you, there's kind of like nowhere to go, I guess, maybe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The uhm, the whole naming things is really interested in like, and I do like like how even in like, history, it's like people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a way, it kind of does, there is a magic to kind of all language, even if you want to, you know, it's, it's a, the logical leap is like, you know, if I say, Oh, I love you darling to someone that makes them feel a certain way in a way that's a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and it's a cool part, we haven't really seen any more, much, I don't think so, maybe there's some stuff in ESO, but the whole NIMIC sort of thing, it seems to be like a, it's a thing for like lorebeards now, it's not really like, you don't really see it around much in ESO.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, like, we'll get back to, I guess, the chronological part. So you've sort of got, like, main card Cameron, writing his Mythic Dawn commentaries around Tiber, Tiber Septim and so on, and then, then he does all his whole Mythic Dawn commentaries acid trip, like, you know, using the Razor to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then I guess he's just long-lived. He's an elf too, remember? So he lives up to the time of Oblivion Crisis. But these Mythic Dawn commentaries become really popular.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] culminating to this point of, of, of the oblivion crisis and his purpose was there, and Mecha Cameron, his big grand master plan was to, uh, end the dragon


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it seems in a way, and we've kind of mentioned this idea before, that like Akatosh seems to somewhat be invested in the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Prolonging or continuation of this calpher beyond anything like anything to not return to the dawn kind of thing. Even to the extent where he basically blesses the dragonborn with, you know, the dragonborn blood so he can come back and kill Alduin and further prolong it. Even when there's no longer just the dragon blood, uhm, packed with the emperors that was, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, well this is the thing, there are lots of holes, there's lots of holes in the whole, uh, main card. Then they kind of further clarified this later with like the Book of the Dragonborn in Skyrim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But basically the idea that the dragon blood isn't actually genetic, but it's more so a confirmed thing upon it. So it's like, you have like potential. So there's a septum kid and they're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, you know what, I'm Akatosh approved. Seal of approval, you're Dragonborn. Because otherwise, then theoretically, we should never run out of Dragonblood. Theoretically, Minotaur lines should have Dragonblood because of Elysia and Belharza and their union and so on. There would be so much


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like blood around and you could say, you know, it thins out or whatnot, but you know, like it's happened before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe, but in the way that like you have, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, Uriel Septim and his sons are dead and there's only one bastard child left and it's Martin Septim. No, they probably should be cousins or it should go up and to the right, like how family trees work. Like it has.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Before, like uhm, there's even on the official sort of, uh, sources, if you break down the third era family tree of the septums, there's even a point where it's like, oh, this one ended and they kind of had to go to a distant family member and it's not even really like qualified, like what the distant relation actually is, whether it's like, you know, 10th cousin or like third cousin or something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it, so it's clearly jumped, it's not like this clean sort of direct son of son of son of son of son kind of thing. Uhm, so theoretically, even with all of like Martin Septum, Martin Septum shouldn't be the last option. It is a very like dramatic story kind of thing, but if you go with the whole idea that it's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Potential or confirmed that by Akatosh at the Dragonfire's meeting or something like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anyway, all of that convoluted kind of stuff aside, he is successful in like getting rid of everyone except Martin Septim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And yeah, and then the oblivion crisis sort of begins and then Akatosh intervenes again and turns Martin Septim into a fiery avatar of Akatosh to stop mayor and stay gone at the last, uh, last minute.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I am liking, um, the idea more that, that Mundus was once a Daedric realm and it becomes the Grey maybe through the meeting of, of Aetherius and stuff. Like even if that was like a, his, Lorcan's, you know, they, Daedra or something betrayed him and, you know, tore holes into Aetherius and all that happens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because there's also an interesting dynamic there where if you look at the Thalmor, like, and, and if you buy into that goal and so on, that, that, that the Thalmor's ultimate idea is to, to liberate the things within Mundus and return them to Aetherius or the Aetherius side of things, the Anu side of things. Whereas Mythic Dawn really is there as like returning it to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like it'd be pretty heavy having Mankok hammered as your dad. Like just really intense, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I guess let's say, so we kind of know that the mythic dawns like sort of central philosophy and I think that we've talked about in Dagon videos and stuff more about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exploring that further and so on and you can kind of discuss that endlessly, but about the, like, the faction itself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we can address the absolutely epic armor and the whole concept of the armor is that they just cast a spell and then like all of a sudden they're like decked out in this mythic taunt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just awesome. And also just how like, A, there's lots and lots of sleeper agents through Tamriel, but it really does feel like this was some big like magnum opus operation that took a lot of time to prepare just in how like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How quickly they could just kill off all the sons of the emperor, that they could also, you know, kill Euryo Septimus himself, and also how they could just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of a sudden just become a thing, an opera, and you know, throughout everywhere they just, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're just being succes- successful. It's like a-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well that whole quest too, just, uhm, while you're looking for that, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, uh, the whole Dagon shrine quest, so on, and it's like, but basically after that, you're, they, the Mythic Dawn become aware of who you are exactly. And a lot of these characters will attack you on site. And I think that's just such a cool experience in the game. Like when you've, you've formally seen these NPCs, you have no idea. You're just like, oh yeah, it's just a random.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And PC and you walk into the city and then all of a sudden bang they just turn on this armor with some magic spell and then they come and attack you. And it's a full suit as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but you might also not. Well, you get asked, but I like, you know, I don't think there's any canon that's really has to be established. I think with that, I feel like it's like whether it's there or not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's a bit strange being proud of, like, the Mythic Dawn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is up ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Fudge Muppet, I'm Scott, here with Michael Drew as always, this is the Autoscrolls Podcast, and today we are having a robust discussion, as I said on Twitter, and I got some, uh, tweets from you guys involved in this as well, but what we are discussing today,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is basically the worst things that could happen to the Elder Scrolls 6. They're basically, we're looking at like the worst case scenario of what Bethesda could implement and also feasibly implement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It could be like a multiplayer shooter. It's not going to be. It's like, you know, within the context that Bethesda's like, we're making a single player RPG. But, you know, there's plenty of things to discuss within the realms of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because like yeaah, that's one example where I would say like yeaah, that's absolutely just the worst because in terms of roleplaying and characters, like I can't even imagine it, like the, you know, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But like, you know, like, like, you know, if people, people do all their like, uh, acting analysis and stuff of like, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was just saying, you know, Fallout 4, when you hit the, hit a button, you're just like, oh, I want to be like, sassy, and then you're just like this, and you're like, but I'm going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That sort of, that like point too actually kind of bleeds into another one that's talked about a lot, but no, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, predefined sort of like pigeon-holed backstory. Like, classically Fallout 4 really went for this. Like, you know, if you're a, you're a male, you're, you know, you served in the military and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, if you're a female, you were wanting to, you have a law degree or something and you're like, you know, you've got a son, Sean, and all of that kind of stuff. It's all predetermined. So you really have to try hard to work around it. You can do it, but it's not ideal. Whereas, um, basically people saying they want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. I would, I, yeah, they should lean off story focus and I would say that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look, they'll probably do want to some degree, like, put a bit of a power fantasy, there's probably gonna be some element of a chosen one, and, like, you can...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do it, but I think what I would like is like the option. So for example, in, um, in oblivion, it's you, you are kind of like, Oh, go return the Amulet of Kings. You're not even the chosen one though. So you can kind of just go off and do your own thing more or less. You still have to make a little.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, if you ignore a few little things, um, but as in Skyrim, you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's so like, like, I guess urgency. Like I don't want them to make a really urgent like, let's trail. Cause it's like, oh, dragons are here. It's like quick, go, go, go. Like, you know, save the dragons. I would like a bit more like, you know, in Morrowind, it's technically still a chosen one story. You can talk about whether they really were or not or all that kind of stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But uhm, you can functionally play. Okay, I'm out of there. Now I'm just going to go and do my own thing. And you can have a cool big cinematic opening. You could be like in a prison or something and then there's like a


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Say there's a civil war or something or some area of Hammerfell and the Thalmor attack again, they, they attack the castle, but then the prison opens up and then you escape with someone else and then you can sort of go off on your own thing. So you can still have your big epic, epic sort of boom, boom, like big opening, but then you can continue along as if you were just, Oh, I've escaped. Yay. I can do what I want.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your game's philosophy, like really if you get down to like an Elder Scrolls game, it's kind of be who you want to be and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're the chosen one anyway in these guild things, like you're the, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One who was going to become the next harbinger and so on and release the werewolf curse and all that kind of stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting. Well, there's the Thieves Guild. Thieves? No, they do it in the Thieves, yea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like it's like, you don't want it to be like your mum and dad telling you, oh, you're so special, you're so great and all of that. No, you want like real world feedback and sort of earn it. So when you like go there and you've crawled to the top and you are like a master thief, you've stolen all of these, done pulled off all these great heists and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then be get told that, oh, you're so great or something different about you, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they can admit them, um, omit them when they're appropriate, like if there is a puzzle, like you don't need the map markers, it's like, here's how you do the puzzle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause sometimes they do, I know it well, at least in the creation club stuff they do, there was like an A-lib. Oh really? Yeah, sometimes it's just they're really, really, it's so obvious, you know what I mean? They're like pointing you straight and it's like, look, it's right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I know it kind of sounds like, you know, very like zoomer and impatient kind of thing, but it is, it's actually halting valuable gameplay. So in that time, there's two scenarios, one where you've spent 20 minutes, 10 of which minutes are figuring out where to go by reading instructions, which is boring.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or, one, the map marker helps you get there and you go there and it as an act to the person wherever you need to go and it hasn't actually hindered the gameplay in that part. Like I said, like I was saying anyway with like specific objectives or where it would be like, you know, discovering a puzzle or if it is part of this big secret, don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, just spoil it there with map markers, but when it's something like, oh, talk to this guys in this city.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You- map markers are just convenient and they actually do help the gameplay overall instead of slowing it down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They actually, they slow down the gameplay in one way, like I would say, and I'm not sure if I mentioned this back then, but one way to make it better is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Solving puzzles that engage you with the lore, for example. So for example, if there's sort of books or like riddles and stuff that will help you open this sacred tomb to get a cool artifact, that's cool because it actually engages you with the lore and the world and everything and there's kind of a reason to it. Whereas if you're just pressing some levers to spin some totems and do stuff, it just slows you down and it doesn't add anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's the other thing I would say that's interesting is, uhm, puzzles?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There should be something worthwhile getting behind it, rather it just being a stop along your path, like open this gate to continue along the quest and kill some random bandits or something, like, you know, if you're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, this isn't really a puzzle as such, but you know how you get put on the wooden mask and you get all the dragon piece masks and you collect them together and then you get kerneric and so on. Like that's a cool kind of thing. It's not so much a puzzle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so to, to recap so far, I guess we kind of like, we covered the, the big main bad things would be we really don't want there to be more of a railroaded story, more of a pigeonholed sort of less role-playing opportunities and so on. Voice protagonist kind of, you know, falls in line with that, um, sort of role-playing angle kind of things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think, um, I can't remember who mentioned it. I'm sure a few people mentioned it, but one thing that's kind of related to is actually further, uh, watering down the racial passives or anything like that, or because they've already, to be honest, uh, quite watered down for massively and, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if people like are worried about it because it's like, oh, is it a racism thing or something like that? But like from a role playing perspective, you want a different experience of I'm playing a red guard, I'm playing an Argonian, I'm playing an Orc, I'm playing a high Elf, I'm playing an Imperial even. Like you want them to feel like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That choice that you made or I'm this kind of, uh, person has added to your gameplay in a meaningful way rather than it being continually watered down so it just becomes a cosmetic choice. It's like, yeah, I like cosmetic choices too, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a very controversial thing to say, I think, cause a lot of people don't like the idea of it, but I really did like beast feet. Uhm, I think, like that just making things that really like significantly make playing a beast race a different experience, is something like that. That's a good line out of content.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think the big thing too is that like they also think about things like, oh, like what if you need these boots for this quest or something, or like if you need like, you know, if you have the boots of spring heel Jack and you can't wear them as a, as a, you know, in oblivion, if you have these boots. Put them on your hands. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeaah, I guess we don't want them to- I think that would be really bad if they went further with that, if anything they need to do a little reversal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, one thing if they want even, like, and maybe this is, uh, controversial to some people, I don't know, like maybe they really like racial powers and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'm 100% cool for them to ditch racial powers because I feel like they're usually not effective in the long term or they don't, or I just never remember to use them or so on. I'm much bigger on meaningful racial.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sometimes I find like racial powers, even the imperious mod, they're a little bit bombastic where it's like every single, you know, Dunmer has like, yeah, has some like super power and they put on this like fire cloak or something or, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, here's one to, to change it up and we can talk about this, but this is a, it's, uh, one of the worst things could happen according to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Social Ascan says, not written by Michael Kirkbride, not entirely written by Michael Kirkbride. And all I have to say to that is I feel like in, in law, um, communities, a lot of people like go like, oh, you know, Michael, and Michael Kirkbride's contributed lots of really good stuff, both in and out of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But at the same time, uhm, a lot of the other writers contributed as well and like Ken Rolston's and all of that. But uhm, some of it gets really wacky. Like, I don't know, I wouldn't want Michael Kirkbride to be the sole and only writer of an Elder Scrolls 6 because it would probably go far crazier than you think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I would, I would definitely, it would be cool if you ever actually worked on it, um, again in writing, you know, and bringing that kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, flavor into it, but it does, I do think it honestly needs to be restrained by other writers who, who keep other things in mind. Like you need a mix anyway. I think that gives any univer- well,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, at least in the games, I think it is partly what gives the Elder Scrolls universe a good flavor is there is actually a lot of mix of writings and stuff. And that almost makes it feel a little bit more real because there are some things that are written by.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kirkbride listed as a bunch of different fictional authors or ones that are written by, um, you know, Ted Peterson or


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, obviously like, you know, some of the things, some of the best aspects of, um, uh, like, you know, 36 lessons of Vec and, and a lot of their character concepts and so on, but also, um, you know, even the mythic dawn commentaries and like songs of palanol and stuff, like some of the favorite texts are written by Kirkbride for, for it. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are we talking about difficulty or when you said gameplay overhaul, I thought you sort of meant like in a way it works, like as if mechanically it was like dark souls all of a sudden.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like the skill part of any sort of like high difficulty like Skyrim kind of stuff comes from like the preparation or the build set up or creative ways of maximizing damage or defense or whatever. It's not actual like, there's a little bit but not a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like they'll like go for just something that just feels better, it's very similar, but like even if you look at like uhm, is it Mordhau or like, they're basically just some other like first person sort of uhm, melee kind of centric, kind of medieval style games, and uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, they look and feel much better. I think it's just people get stuck. Of course it's going to be upgraded. I feel like you can take the sort of Skyrim template and like push it way further. I don't even know, honestly, I mean, one people could argue about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I like the first person element of it, so I would like the first and third person, like you can switch between, but there's a lot of emphasis on like some people like, I really want roles and crazy dodges and stuff. I feel like you could even honestly implement like dodges or like quick strafes and stuff in first person without it feeling ridiculous, but like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The full like rolling everywhere and so on. I'm not even necessarily like, I kinda don't want it to become that level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think honestly, that's like part of the thing is people are still, cause you're only reference of comparison really.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As long as it looks and feels good, really. Yeah, the crunch and so on. Like, you know, taking a dagger and stabbing it in their eye and then like pushing them off and so on. Like, those kinds of things would feel, uhm, cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we've talked about it before too, but how there is, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's, uh, unarmed perks in New Vegas where you would learn like new moves and so on, but there's no reason that they can't, um, apply that to kind of one handed, two handed and sort of everything. And then it's kind of like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, once you talk to this NPC, get the training or something, it like adds an extra perk. Even if it is a perk tree, it might be some other perk list or something, but whatever. You get a perk that actually gives you a new move. Maybe it's even with a certain type of weapon. So say if you've got like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To be honest, if it's actually set in, uhm, Elscross Six is set in Hammerfell for example, it would actually be really good from a lore perspective to make it like there's like lots of like different sword styles and the real like sort of martial fighting emphasis and so on would be, would fit really well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I kind of feel like, I don't know if I'd put that anywhere near like the worst thing. Like if they, if they did come out and it's kind of just like Skyrim, pick your race and off you go, that is nowhere near as bad as so many other things that could happen. Like it's pretty tame.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I agree, but at the same time, I'm kind of hopeful just because finally, like, I'm pretty sure we could probably do an analysis of it sometime, but just intuitively, I think Skyrim is a better representation of Skyrim in the lore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then ESO, as much as they've added lots of lore and storylines and stuff that you're not as big on and some things that are like the underwhelming or not as alien, they have actually taken a lot of, a lot of the fluff, the background lore and so on. They have made a big effort because they have to, because they've got an MO going 10 years and they need to keep building new content and so on. They've actually built quite a consistent kind of thing. I was playing the Blackwood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, it's obviously not ideal, like, the look, like, one thing that bothers me in ESO is that every door is huge and the buildings are always, like, massive, like, the ailed doors and the ailed ruins are, like, literally, like, three of you, like, they're huge, it's not the same scale, cause it's- Everything feels like a zone. It's facilitated from MMO, you know, it's, it's, it's different, but what I'm sort of getting at is I think that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now that they've got a lot of Hammerfell sort of background lore and stuff to work off, I feel like people's expectations are different. They can't pull an oblivion on you now. Like obviously there'll always be some things like, you know, you can tone down the Somerset stuff and really people can argue that like, oh, it's one, one writing that says that the Crystal Tower is this cool or so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, whereas now you've got ESO that's combined all of these kinds of things, um, and so much law that it's kind of undeniable, like you can't not. One thing I guess some people were talking about, um, is if they went for ESO, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In terms of like what the land looks like and the sort of lore like just copy sort of pasting across and so on. And I think, I don't think they will because I think Bethesda game studios would take pride in doing their own sort of thing. But I'm sure they can take inspiration from some of the locations, but just the actual physical look of a bunch of ESO stuff, like I said, disproportionate sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but like, in summary, the worst thing to happen would be is if they did water down all of the sort of cultural uniqueness and so on and stuff like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I am somewhat hopeful, especially following up Starfield, if they do go for their, oh, we're like having a more like focus on role playing and stuff like that. And then they're coming into this. Plus they're going to obviously be consulting with ESO lore. And so, cause then, you know, now they have like lore masters and stuff, which wasn't really a, a role before in any sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bethesda kind of thing. So I feel I am a little more hopeful in the direction.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And someone kind of can come to you and go, well, I want to write this quest. This is what the quest is or someone like help me make it work or something, but you're working with those parameters already. Like we know when it first started and so on and everyone's got their own different. It's the problem with any.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I guess, uh, Elder Scrolls has been around a long time. Everyone's got a different vision of what Elder Scrolls should be and so on, or what they, what they enjoy. I think one of the worst things personally is if they, for me would be, is if they go for a really.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, it doesn't become so like tethered to ESO as a visual representation, instead it has its own aesthetic. Like, you know, how Skyrim's armors and stuff are all rugged barbarian sort of feeling and so on. And they go from a nightly ones in oblivion or whatever. Not that it has to be necessarily cohesive like that, but just that, you know what I mean? It all looks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, funnily enough, if you actually, I don't know if maybe I'll get like, I don't know if some people will really disagree and I'll get reamed for it in the comments, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, Morrowind to Skyrim, Skyrim's actually more of a continuation of Morrowind in many ways, uhm, even like aesthetically that, that the elves, and obviously it was only presets in Vanilla Morrowind, but they looked a little bit more alien, a little bit different, some of the ridges and stuff, maybe not as pronounced.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, um, it looks like more of a continuation than Oblivion did and Oblivion went very like Pixar head looking kind of things. And then even the color palette's very different. Like Morrowind feels, you know, I guess grittier sounds a weird word, but you know what I mean? It's like a different going from one to the other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and I think, and I hope they do continue that sort of line, cause I would say, uh, maybe it's unfair to say, I don't know, but, but ESO feels closer to oblivion in that very like, bright and like, there's a lot of, yeah, I don't know, I don't know, maybe, maybe not, maybe that's not,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some of, like, I guess there's worse, some, some of these things I feel like are smaller kind of things, like I wouldn't be the worst, like no variations in armor for example, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Getting, being able to have like colors and styles and so on. These all sound like great things, like it'd be cool to be able to like color your robes or whatever, but like, they aren't like, oh it's the worst if it doesn't happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause in some ways, like some people really, I kind of like the identity that comes with some pieces. Like there's something that makes like Daedric stand out or glass or whatever stand out. Whereas if you can color glass, like any color of the rainbow, it loses a little bit of its identity to me at least, but I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, there are some interesting things in the creation club with, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, finding iron hinges in every single like dungeon, like picking them all up so you can make stuff. It's, it's a different work. One thing I actually wanted to, uhm, bring up, just kind of like not the worst thing, it's not, if it's not there, but,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With Skyrim, with Skyrim, it's, when we're using Skyrim as a reference range, it's like that's a 10 year old game and we forget in ways, or at least I do, is that Fallout 4 was their next big release that came in. Like Fallout 4 would start to give you some sort of hints at how they, how they changed. Like, like, so for example, with Oblivion, Oblivion came out, everyone was disappointed by the setting coming from Morrowind, right? But then,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shivering Isles comes out as almost like a big appeasement. It's like, hey, look, this looks a lot more like Morrowind and it's like a bit more funky and cool and interesting and stuff like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in a similar way, um, in Fallout 4, they brought out, you know, everyone was annoyed that there was no like sort of role playing, couldn't really be evil. And then they come out with the Nuka World DLC and it's like, Oh, look, you could do this. Or they come out with Fire Harbor, you know, you actually have more choices and stuff, um, with the factions and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But another, so you can kind of look at the DLC sometimes to see where things, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Might go or they might take things, but also even just looking at the systems in it- in itself. Fallout, uh, Bethesda's last mainline game did feature a lot more, uhm, customization of your armor and so on. Being able to wear clothes underneath and put leather armor and pieces and so on all over like you could in Fallout 4.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is, it's not like the end of world or end of the world if they don't have it, but maybe Elder Scrolls 6 will actually sort of return to a more, more closer to Morrowind sort of style where you can, maybe it's not to the level of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pauldrons and boots and every individual part, but maybe it's like, you know, your, um, arms, pants, boots, um, helmet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, we're just going to end up talking about everything we kind of want in Skulls 6. But one thing, and this obviously wants to fix it in Skyrim, but like, um, Daedric artifacts that truly do have unique effects or are just simply better than stuff that you can craft, things that really become desirable pieces.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I actually, there you go, I will say it is a bad thing to happen in Elder Scrolls 6. I really like crafting systems there, it gives a lot of build variety and so on, but if every single character has to rely on crafting to be good,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a bad thing, because ultimately in Skyrim, a character without enchanting is just nowhere near as good as any character without it. It's just, it's just not


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not comparable at all. You know, so you like, they should fix scaling and stuff and, and, and different options and stuff, but I, I just, just don't want crafting to be so overpowered where you feel if you do want to have some sort of optimized or maximized build that you feel obligated that like, I'm going to have to do this or because it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When it comes to that sort of min-maxing kind of thing and like yeaah, you don't have to do it. But if you want to play into the late game, you know, uhm, you kinda do if you don't want to get one hit by an ancient dragon or something because you've played a thief character who's all their skills in pickpocket and sneak and all of that but your level's still way higher and you haven't got your like super magic resist gear and stuff and yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my goodness, like a leveling system without any skills. That's crazy. That's one of those things. It's like, they're not going to ditch skills. But they did it in Fallout. No, no, no, but they didn't have that, that Fallout 4 is more, I guess in comparison to feel, it's more like attributes being condensed to three or something like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you get, if you get rid of skills, skills is like the most central part of the LS girls formula because it's the level by doing thing. That's what people like. Like they're more likely to ditch attributes, but that's so silly. Like how do you do that? No, like what they, yeah. Cause that's what they call attributes now. Like stamina hell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Any other big, like, the worst things that could happen? Because for me, it really does come down to a lot of the sort of lore slash role playing kind of things. At the end of the day, a lot of the, you know, whether it's like armor mechanics or something's OP or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of that kind of stuff can be remedied with mods or it can't, it's sort of not foundational. Whereas if you do have a world space that is, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's very watered down, it's really hard to do any like, sort of significant role playing, like a, you know, lack of choice and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That also reminds me, uhm, people saying, uh, a bad thing would be a huge time skip again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I would kind of agree that since everyone is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause I think by now everyone's so invested in like the Thalmor and all that kind of stuff. If they're just like, whoop, we're going to skip right over it. And like, they can't, I don't think another Skyrim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You could do something small like they used to do, like, you know, I think this time between Arena and, and Oblivion is like 60 years, or not 60, 16 maybe even, I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Six, ten years kind of vibe, but I feel like when you start distancing it too far from there, you're going to start.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Losing like, cause that's the thing is like people have a good understanding or they're, they're keen to hear more about the different parts of the world. Like you hear little bits about how Hammerfell are and so on. And like they've got to involve the Thalmor surely. Like cause people just, it's just a.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just a facet of Skyrim that was, that was built up, like there's this second great war coming, or there's this second great conflict, like what? They're not, they're just going to ditch it, or they're just going to say, ah, well, you know, 10 years ago, the second great war happened and, you know, this is the setting now, but that completely is just, that's just Skyrim too. It's like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I used to, I used to be a little different, but I'm actually like a bit more, um, uh, positive on Elder Scrolls 6. I don't think it will be some huge disappointment kind of thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because I mean, I think Skyrim obviously with like the three editions and all of that kind of stuff and just in terms of like brand, like Skyrim's a household name for like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Generations of gamers at this point. Like the idea that like, there are people that are like, you know, 10 years old right now that are playing Skyrim for the first time with Skyrim Anniversary Edition and getting into it and everything. And it's just like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I played it when I was like 16 or something, and it's like, that was me with Oblivion, but that's how long it's been. And it's so, but people are so invested in the, the, the brand. If they make an Elder Scrolls 6 and it's as good as Skyrim and as, as, as, you know, culturally impactful as Skyrim, they'll just sell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So much of it. And then dude, they've got monetization things in there with like, you know, creation club.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you use the creation club, if you use that as a model, you look at it, they add new weapons and stuff, but they integrate it with quests and so on. And it like, my biggest thing is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would have nothing wrong with any Creation Club stuff, kind of, going forward. I don't know, like, arguably, like, you know, put it in the main game, or what not. But even if they had modders working on it, doing additional stuff, and then they have, like, official releases, I just, my concern is always just quality control and stuff. There's some bits and pieces, like, some of the, the Creation Club parts are well done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, but then others are like, oh, that kind of breaks this and that and I just think they need a good, if they, if you had these really good polished, what are essentially DLC. But then just do DLC.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, but then the point is they're outsourcing it to modders and modders can also get paid for their work or something, but then it keeps the world kind of again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you, like, look at dates, like, they might, for example, finish again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the game's, well, the game's gotta be like finished here or whatever, and then they're prep- you know, it's preparing for release and sale and going out and whatnot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They could be working on a DLC now that might not come out for five months or something, but they couldn't have put it in the game unless you delay it further and so on and then you have the same problem again and say, oh, well, if the DLC can't come out, it has to, you know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go, like Dawnguard, Dawnguard for example, which was the first big DLC for Skyrim came out June 26th, 2012. So that's like, you know, that's like six, a bit over six months. I feel like that's kind of fair enough, but especially cause they could, you know, you can start work on Dawnguard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Immediately as Skyrim's going and so on, but you couldn't have waited to put it in necessarily, I guess. I guess yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yea, I agree entirely with the day one stuff, like I don't want some like, get your additional link hat costume or something or anything like that, like, you know. Uhm, but, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. I feel like we could talk about this, for this is one thing with Elder Scrolls 6 discussions, we could like talk kind of endlessly about it and sort of like jump around the place. But are there any other really worst things? I know one, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess like any crazy retconning of, of like the fundamental sort of sword singer. So I kind of don't want a sword singer replaced with shouts, but I'm sure they're going to do it. Like even just going off the ESO lore, they've, they've, you, you, you're seeing the, the sword singer, the anti-stuff like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No. Probably not. Maybe it might be a like a little lyrical like three word thing or something or-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, could do that instead, but I just think the idea that it's kind of like, it's now out there in the space that this is what the she-hai look like. They're these big kind of like, you know, uh, magic sword looking things, which it's not cool. Like if you try and work with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's co- the point is, it's the same problem with Dragonborn, it's just like, I wanna be a dark brotherhood assassin and a thief.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I don't want to be the saviour of the universe as this great dragonborn character. Uhm, and I, I think too, and if you also partly, it's like if you choose not to, you're missing out on a lot of the, it's the same as if I want to be a mage. I don't want to be wielding a magic giant sword as some like martial arts kind of character, you know, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll see what they do, we've got a long time to wait.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it is what's ridiculous, like I, I think 2025, 2026 is a very, fairly safe bet, but like that is, that is like what you would expect usually what used to be the case just in between their releases, you know, 2011 to 2015 or 2006, 2011.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For all of their previous entries, but then they went Fallout 76, which I always take- I've- I can't remember whose video I was watching about it or something about the development or the splits of the team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'm pretty sure it was something about the Bethesda Game Studios itself created the world space, but then the one that was, uhm, the Austin Tex- the Bethesda Austin, which used to be Battlecry Studios or something that was basically bought and converted and merged, they dealt with it like not the core Bethesda Game Studios, they built the world, but then the rest did all of the, I think, asset creation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, no, I mean Fallout 76. The actual map is, the map is nice. Yeah, if you explore the map, it's nice, it's uhm, just everything else to do with it. I mean, some people really like Fallout 76, and to be fair, I haven't played it since.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But apparently it's getting better and better, but I, I've sort of, my biggest problem to me, a lot of the time is when you sort of disregard the, the lore and stuff and just show that's like, oh, this is just this silly sort of playground. I lose interest in it because the reason I was into Fallout was the world and the immersion stuff I get in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When there's people jumping around in power armor with their, like, Nuka Cola paint and they're all their different, like, I don't know, alien blood. Meme emotes. You're inhabiting a dead world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we were to look towards the star, Starfield though, like uhm, even seeing some more of the concept art, which they've sort of been showing little bits, it is slowly getting more promising. I'm still waiting to be like amazed. I do think some people are sort of just,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not gonna be like selling point, I'm sold, Starfield's great, we've seen nothing yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's the difference too. With Starfield, you got nothing to go on. If they started showing us concept art for Elder Scrolls 6, you would be able to draw from all of the lore knowledge and all of the knowledge about the setting and be like, oh, maybe this is this and that and speculate and sort of, you get so much more subconscious information with every picture. Starfield, it's just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here's some white spaceships, and so I even saw one of the- the art of the city and stuff looked kinda cool, like the internal and it like looked like there's more like stuff going on which is-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cool, but uhm, yeaah, we just gotta wait and see. What they say about it too, is promising, like all of the sort of, uhm, roleplaying background focus and so on and, but uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wait till you see him, man, but that's so crazy, dude. I just remember sitting in my room back at like my parents place and stuff, talking about Starfield and like, oh, it's just like, you know, linked, linked projects kind of name or something like that. And ridiculous.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well they won't, like if it's like, what, 2026, they'll be like early primers, probably not quite like there yet, but like it's the kind of thing like you could imagine. It's like, oh, I'm 11 and I'm playing a game that came out four years ago that my dad really likes and here's Elder Scrolls 6. Like it's like their oblivion or their Morrowind or whatever, you know, like that's insane.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We've got so many more opportunities to talk about Elder Scrolls 6 over the coming years and speculating and stuff like that. But, uh, yeah, thank you ladies and gentlemen for tuning into the Elder Scrolls podcast. We've been Michael, Scott and Drew, and we'll be back to nerd out with you again next time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is up ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Fudge Muppet. I'm Scott here with Michael and Drew. As always, this is the Elder Scrolls podcast. We hope you all had a very Merry Christmas. And today we are talking about the Imperials. Larger, like we haven't really talked about them as a race yet and really even as a culture. We've done two episodes, one on the Elysian Empire and one on the Riemann Empire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we'll probably go a little lighter on those sections, but uhm, there's still plenty to talk about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, that's even what they call like, some of them get called like, they call them serodilics, but then sometimes it's like seronautics to sort of describe them, which is, you know, describing like the Nordic influence. But if we want to go into from a law perspective, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The oldest thing is basically the, the Nidics. So they're an old Nidic group of people that were like native to Cyrodiil at the time when the A-Lids and stuff were there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, and I think everyone knows that story many times over, you know, Alicia, um, comes about, they rebel and with the help of the Nords coming from the North.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, they fight off the alyds, and uhm, they start a new, uh, pantheon, and that's the Imperial Divines, that basically, well, in an infancy sort of form, because it doesn't really...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You got to go through all the leasing order stuff too, but, um, from then the big distinction, I guess the collective sort of term gets sort of more specific for the Syrodiilics at the time. It's like Nibenees because they're talking about basically the Nidics they're really referring to, uh, from the Nibene valley area, which is, you know, all, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, we should preface to is so, so basically the, the, the Nord's coming down and, you know, you can imagine things, Bruma, Clovian Highlands, all these areas interbred and intermixed with the needs, but then their culture became more dominant. So you get a lot more of Nordic culture, which influenced the Clovians. The Nibbanese were a little bit more like, you know, like their traditional sort of Nidic roots, but, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Later on, basically this creates this sort of fundamental divide between, uhm, Imperials as a whole.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which we should throw out there isn't really represented that well in Oblivion or the games in general. It was more so from lore like the first pocket guide to the Empire. But the idea is that there are these sort of Clovians to the west, so you're looking at places like Anvil through to Skengrakevach, Coral kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you get to, uh, which even at the time actually extended as far as sort of Falkreath at certain times in history. Um, and then the Nibbanese sort of got this Jadenhall Imperial city, although sometimes they refer that to that as like a heartlander kind of thing, but originally sort of, you know, that area, Breville, so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're the Eastern culture, the sort of Lebanese, but they also to get thrown into Imperials is one of the-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, it's like, it's like functionally, like the, the Nibenees also, um, they're really the core part of, of the empire. The way that it sort of was described earlier is that the Clovians sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] End up being like the military kind of force, but they, it often happens that there's a lot of Clovian rulers and stuff that come in, but the actual bulk of the empire's people are Nibenees and there's massive, um, trade culture there because basically the idea was, and the, the cannon sort of, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess what you saw like status of all of this is kind of hard to determine because they're kind of really trying to hard retcon the jungle out of it. But the idea was that there was basically a rice based economy that because of this big fertile valley, you have lots, they could grow lots and lots of, um, rice and rice is like one of the highest, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, because they have this big, uh, trade culture and so on, they also have, uhm, a big trade of culture itself, so lots and lots of different cults and stuff that appear during the time of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, the Elysian, uh, order and so on. And, and obviously there are so many influences that get added in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well I think it's even the, I think it was the Imperial Battlemage as a concept, right? It sort of came out of Nibene's kind of, uh, culture and so on. And they have all of these...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Under the, under the period, so it starts off, so the Elysian Empire, well maybe it's easier if we can kind of follow along chronologically because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the same way that how the Nords aren't super like ancient Nordic anymore, you can make the same argument as to how the, the divide between, um, the Nibbanese and the Clovians, um, gets watered down over time as there's more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and arguably you can make that make sense as well, even though it's not as fun to have, like, as it would be to have this really cool divide in these different kind of, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And obviously it's not a jungle anymore too, so that kind of changes things as well. But so we start off with the whole like Elysia, uh, Elysia thing. There's a small period of the empire where you have even, um, the, the like Minotaurs as the guardians of the Elysian empire and that kind of time. And there's some cool theories about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, the Prophet Marok's teachings and the 77, is it 77 or 71? I can't remember, inflexible doctrines. Um, that basically there are these really strict commandments that he gets basically told from the, the, the ghost of Elysia, of Spirit Elysia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, and basically this kind of religion ends up, um, co-opting the empire and the empire essentially becomes a theocracy, um, and whereas, you know, the religion controls the empire essentially. It is, they're one and the same.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, yeah, so, and then from that, there's thousands of thousands of years of history, but we've got to, at this point, there's references to like legates and sort of like, um, you know, imperial sort of, uh, Roman sounding titles, but at the time they don't have the same sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Modern legions and stuff that everyone is, uhm, familiar with, like that stuff doesn't come around until the second empire, at the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a, it's different and you can also like arguably say that it's like they're not this giant conquering empire. They fight against the Clovians estates.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And lose and they also try and conquer high rock and they do for a bit, but then it goes off and there's a back and forth, but they never have, they never, the Elysian empire never reaches the heights of the others in terms of like conquered land mass or anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and it's like, and also to clarify too, actually we should probably talk about this, but uhm, we've mentioned it before, but there's this, there's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who becomes King of Skingrad, uh, Ryslav Larik, um, character who he basically in his wars and alliances and so on basically helps earlier in the first era separate, um, the Clovian estates. So basically sort of Skingrad, Kvatch, Coral and, uh, and Anvil and so on from.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would be very much like the Nibbanese sort of understanding of the culture and what happens in that separation, which lasts for thousands of years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, throughout the first era is really what is responsible for the harsh divide between the two because the Elysian, uhm, order and all the cults under it and so on, it kind of, there was a political divide between the two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it wasn't until we get to, um, the birth of Ream and Cyrodiil and his eventual conquest of Cyrodiil and unification of, of, um, the Nibanese and the Clovians against the Akaviri. And then he also incorporates Akaviri into his own empire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So then by the time you come to the Riemann empire, you've got three influences, three really dominant influences through Akaviri, Nibanese and Clovian. And that's when it kind of all starts being like consolidated, I guess, into one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well to start with, that's kind of like, I guess like why they get called the sort of-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the most cosmopolitan race, but like my main argument would be is it's it's cosmopolitan.