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[Assistant] Yeah. What? And killed her a week before her birth, his birthday. And then went on his birthday, purchased the freezer. And that was his birthday. That is unreal. Yeah. He was the youngest of three children. His parents were Ann and Angela from Alaro. According to John, we always have to take their thing,


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[Assistant] His mother was quote, the dominant force in the family while his father was pretty passive and tolerated her demands and verbal abuse.


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[Assistant] Which could absolutely be true, but this is just coming from him.


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[Assistant] A year after John was born, the family moved from Long Island to Santa Ana because his father had been sent to


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[Assistant] Establish a manufacturing plant in Garden Grove, California.


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[Assistant] The children, which, uhm, included his brother Warren and sister Marion.


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[Assistant] They said it was a very erratic, it was a very tense relationship, not a good one, not a loving one.


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[Assistant] According to all the children, including his siblings, she was very, the mother was very difficult, very confrontational and she was very controlling.


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[Assistant] She was also a devout Catholic, which in and of itself, I'm not saying is a bad trait, but she was, because of that, she was very, and she was like very devout. So she was very preoccupied with saving their souls.


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[Assistant] And that's, that's the bad part of that kind of devoutness.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and the children also said that they got isolated a lot from, you know, from other children really. Like they didn't get to play with other children a lot. They were isolated from kids at church.


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[Assistant] Then those who knew them around this time said that the children seemed very focused and very well behaved, which I say, sure, I'm sure they were very focused and very well behaved. They had an abusive mother.


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[Assistant] Now apparently the outside of the home looked very neat and clean and tidy. No one would have ever thought that something was going on inside. Totally different story.


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[Assistant] According to the children the inside was cluttered, trash, food, magazines, everything, newspapers, just things stacked everywhere.


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[Assistant] They acknowledged that this was also something that their maternal grandmother had done, so it seemed like this was just something that...


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[Assistant] They also said that Anne was, their mother was very paranoid. Like very paranoid.


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[Assistant] And she also had this like obsessive like kind of doomsday thing where she thought they had to like hoard things because like the end was coming.


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[Assistant] When the children became adolescents, she also got very preoccupied with sex. Oh no, I had a feeling it was good there. And there wasn't very productive or very healthy discussions about sex in that household. She even bathed them personally into their preteen years. Oh.


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[Assistant] Uh, she was a little strange with her behavior for bedtime, according to the children. And years later, Warren Famolaro, the brother, would be convicted of sexually assaulting three children and serve a sentence in a facility for mentally disordered sex offenders.


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[Assistant] So something was going on in that house. That's really sad. That did not, uhm, help them become healthy adults.


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[Assistant] Now, as a teen and young adult, John Famolaro developed a lot of unhealthy coping skills.


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[Assistant] He liked everything to be very symmetrical and it was like an obsessive kind of, like everything needs to be symmetrical and he would also go into bursts of energy and hyperactivity and then depression. So he seemed like he had unhealthy coping skills because he was not diagnosed with whatever


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[Assistant] At his social skills. Makes sense. I think she was really keeping him at that level. Unfortunately, he did find college to not be super easy or tolerable for him.


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[Assistant] And after enrolling in and dropping out of several schools and classes, he just stopped before completing it.


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[Assistant] Now as an adult, there seemed like there was like two sides of him. Like, John Fomelaro, like people knew two different things. On one hand, friends remember him being very funny, an intelligent guy, very, very polite is what he was described as.


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[Assistant] Now there was also a dark side to his personality that investigators found while interviewing his former girlfriends. Oh no.


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[Assistant] Because according to one former girlfriend, uhm, I'm not going to say her name. She and John had taken a trip to New York City in 1987.


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[Assistant] And they were like play fighting one morning, like as couples do, like just, uuuh, you know. Yeah. Uhm, but then John took it like too far, and he stripped her of her clothes and handcuffed her to a window in the hotel room. What?


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[Assistant] Then left her there for several hours alone, handcuffed.


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[Assistant] When he came back later, he was laughing. Being like, this is hilarious. Like thought this was a funny game.


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[Assistant] And she was like clearly terrified and traumatized. That is so insane. I guess after they left this trip and went back to California, they immediately broke up. She was like, bye.


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[Assistant] They did reconcile in 1991, which is the year that Denise went missing, but they didn't reconcile as a couple, they just like talked it out. And they became, they like remained friends after he moved to Arizona in 1992. Okay.


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[Assistant] But court records indicate that John also took photographs of her during this whole thing.


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[Assistant] She said she doesn't remember this at all because she was so traumatized that I think she just blocked it out. Yeah, like PTSD.


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[Assistant] But in another incident that occurred in March of 1989, John was dating another woman, and according to court records, she stopped by his house one afternoon just to visit.


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[Assistant] And she tried to leave his house once the visit was over, and John quote, pushed her onto the bed, causing her back, shoulder, and head to hit a bookcase.


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[Assistant] Once she was down, he forced her hands above her head and handcuffed her to the bed frame.


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[Assistant] Then he removed her clothing against her wishes, forcibly.


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[Assistant] And saying that she was going to report him that he released the handcuffs and let her leave.


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[Assistant] But when he, when she left, he called her a bitch and said, you're the one that brought this on.


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[Assistant] Apparently, later when they had talked about this, cause they broke up, but they had talked about it, and I guess he'd said to her that she just obviously didn't know mature sex games.


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[Assistant] Uh, what? Seriously. Like I don't think you know about mature and consensual sex. I don't think you know what being a human is. No. Now in late 1992, John moved to Arizona to help his mom because, which like, whoa.


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[Assistant] Because she was caring for his ailing father. Okay. And remember he did have a good relationship with his father. And he actually kept living in the house with his mother after his father died.


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[Assistant] Oh, I can't imagine that was good for his health. And those kind of relationships, those parent-child relationships when they are like that, sometimes they just... Cling. Continue. You know what I mean? Like the person will continue it. Exactly.


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[Assistant] Now that is John Fomolaro. Wow, what a story. Yeah. And on July 20th, 1994, after he had been arrested, John Fomolaro appeared before a judge for the first time. At the hearing, authorities testified that the extent of Denise's wounds were


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[Assistant] He argued that the evidence was entirely circumstantial and since he had no history of violence.


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[Assistant] No. The judge was like, did you read this case? He was like, did you just walk in here, like, just wake up, come in here, not knowing anything? Like, did you talk to your client?


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[Assistant] But he was denied bail and returned back to jail. Thankfully. So his bail hearing began a series of hearings and delays that dragged this case on for several years before it even reached the criminal trial phase.


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[Assistant] So in late August, Fomelaro waved extradition and was transported from Arizona to Orange County, California. And he was then put in the Orange County jail to await his arraignment. Okay.


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[Assistant] On September 26, 1994, he appeared before an Orange County grand jury.


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[Assistant] It was during this hearing that the prosecution announced the attachment of special circumstances to the murder trial. Right. They said that Denise Huber's death occurred during her kidnapping, which would make him eligible for the death penalty.


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[Assistant] In total, he was indicted on one charge of kidnapping, one charge of murder with special circumstances, and one count of sodomy.


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[Assistant] Now he was no longer being represented by Larry Katz at this point. I wonder why. Cause Larry was like, oh, this isn't circumstantial at all and I have to go. And now we had a public defender named Leonard Gumlia and he acknowledged that the case was complicated a little bit, uh, particularly because of the semen found in


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[Assistant] But he maintained the position that it was completely circumstantial.


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[Assistant] Which I'm a little confused about. He said, anybody who thinks they know what happened that night is only guessing. I don't know about that. I don't know, I think all the evidence points to your client.


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[Assistant] He said, there is no evidence of any trauma that something forcible happened. There may be something consensual happening.


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[Assistant] Some of the questions remain unanswered and you can read the physical evidence in many ways.


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[Assistant] Like, I'm sorry. I know he's doing his job, I get it. But like, is he though? Because there is evidence that there's trauma. What the fuck.


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[Assistant] Like, it's just hard to hear, that's all. It's just hard to hear somebody say that. Like, something along the lines of like, this was a frenzy killing, and then like, Yea, I mean, you got it. The rest of forever he just had. Cause it's just like, oof. You're really sticking with that?


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[Assistant] He stayed, the defense attorney stayed very vague in terms of what they said here, but they were definitely laying the groundwork for a defense where Denise went with John Fomelaro willingly and consented to sex. Which is a...


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[Assistant] This, this, and this is the problem with this defense that they were laying groundwork for, because it's like, how does it explain the exceedingly violent death that she suffered? Right. How?


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[Assistant] Are you telling me? And just the fact that her car was abandoned, she clearly didn't go anywhere willingly. Exactly, that's the thing. It undermines the kidnapping and sexual assault charges that...


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[Assistant] This is the thing, like, we're sitting here looking at it from this point of view, being like, what the fuck? But they're doing it because if they do somehow plant a seed like that in somebody in the jury's minds, then it undermines the sexual assault and kidnapping charges that


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[Assistant] Uhm, so the prosecution and defense had a lot of time to prepare.


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[Assistant] And by April of 1995, the defense petitioned the court for a delay.


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[Assistant] Uh, they noted the extraordinary amount of evidence seemed from Fomolaro's home in Arizona, which I'm like, circumstantial evidence you mean? Is that what you're, you're noting as you need to go through the circumstantial evidence? Okie dokie. He said we have to go through 65 boxes of documents and he said he documented his whole life.


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[Assistant] So Judge O'Leary approved the request and set the new trial date for April 29, 1996. Stop. The trial would be delayed for another full year.


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[Assistant] Asking for all this time to review additional evidence, interview witnesses, the defense needed way more time because they knew they had a shit case. Yeah.


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[Assistant] So, Denise and Lone Huber, or excuse me, Dennis and Lone Huber, Dennis and Loner, her parents, they waited more than three years to even learn what happened to Denise.


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[Assistant] And then to hear that. Yeah. And then they waited even more time to see him even begin to face justice.


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[Assistant] Finally on April 21st, 1997. Oh my god. Jury selection began. Six years. Yeaah. In Orange County Superior Court. Uhm, and it was the people of the state of California versus John Fomelaro.


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[Assistant] Now after a long and very tense jury selection, the trial finally started on May 8th, 1997.


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[Assistant] In his opening statement, Deputy District Attorney Christopher Evans laid out the state's case against John Fomelaro, telling the jury how Denise had been pulled from her car by him.


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[Assistant] Then sexually assaulted and brutally, brutally and gruesomely killed.


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[Assistant] He told the jury Denise did not go easily. And then he detailed the extent of her injuries and assault. And according, cause she fought back.


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[Assistant] Now according to the district attorney, Fumilaro had gone out of his way to purchase a freezer and steal a rider truck in order to keep Huber's body.


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[Assistant] And he said keep it as quote, a perverse trophy to remind himself of the success he had that night. And it's true. He'd gone out of his way to keep this stuff. And like, he just would go in there and like,


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[Assistant] That's the thing, it's like, what did you- what were you doing? Right. Like-


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[Assistant] It's unthinkable, it really is. It is. Now, anticipating the defense's argument that Denise went willingly with John Fomelaro, Evans made sure to remind the jury that Huber's car had broken down in a well-lit area surrounded by several options for assistance.


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[Assistant] And just a short walk from her parents house. Oh no. Under those circumstances, it makes absolutely zero sense.


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[Assistant] That she would instead of going to get help in these several avenues laid out to her, she would get in a car with a sketchy guy who would have definitely immediately driven her in the wrong direction too. Like it wouldn't have happened.


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[Assistant] It's so sad that her car broke down that close to home. That's the thing, it's like if her car hadn't broken down, it's like ugh.


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[Assistant] Now, among the first witnesses called by the prosecution was Rob Calvert, who was the friend she went to the concert with.


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[Assistant] And he included the fact that they did, they definitely had several drinks over the course of the evening, but he was like, it wasn't a big deal under cross examination.


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[Assistant] Leonard Gumlia, the defense attorney, honed in on that fact.


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[Assistant] But it definitely backfired on him, because following his cross-examination of Calvert, he had to make it clear that he didn't mean to imply, quote, that Huber was drunk.


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[Assistant] The defense's line of questioning was definitely aimed at supporting their ultimate defense, which was


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[Assistant] How do you even prove that? No! And again, it doesn't make sense that you would go willingly with some strange guy. And it's not like John Fomalaro looked like a wholesome guy that you wanted to get in the car with. Like he just didn't. Really?


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[Assistant] So the prosecution rested its case on May 14th, and the defense requested that the judge drop the kidnapping charge.


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[Assistant] Dead you mean? Killed. But there's no evidence that she got there forcefully.


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[Assistant] Did you see her shoes? There were drag marks. Oh, thank you. Because the prosecution strongly objected. They argued that they believed Denise was blindfolded, which they said had a ton of implication.


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[Assistant] And Judge John Ryan agreed with Evans, saying there are too many reasonable inferences to show kidnapping.


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[Assistant] And they were trying to argue that those scuff marks came from something else, they weren't from being dragged.


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[Assistant] Are you kidding me? Yeah. Her heel literally broke. Yeah.


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[Assistant] On May 19th, the defense tried to change the tactic now.


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[Assistant] So she made a dumb decision. That's what now they're trying to be like, wow, what a dumb decision that was. And also even if it was the case and it was like a silly choice, yea, it shouldn't result in you getting murdered.


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[Assistant] Speaking on those scuffs and things to her shoes, the defense said that


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[Assistant] The shoes Denise was wearing that night had the scuffs on them hadn't happened when she was dragged.


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[Assistant] They said it happened when Denise was, quote, walking up and down the freeway embankment where the car was found. Oh, she was dragging. Dragging her heels. Right. That makes a lot of sense. Which I want to be like, okay, did anyone in that courtroom go, can you show me physically how you do that? Yeah. How would that happen? Just show me.


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[Assistant] Put on a pair of heels. Yeah. Show me how you scuff the back of your heels. Cause that's the thing, prove to me how that happens.


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[Assistant] Before turning a verdict of guilty on the charges of first degree murder. Good. Also kidnapping. Yeaah. And also sodomy.


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[Assistant] Dennis Huber told reporters after the verdict, it's a step in justice. The man who did that is that much closer to meeting his justice. The death penalty. Good. So her parents wanted it.


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[Assistant] And although the verdict came as a relief to a lot of people, Deputy District Attorney Christopher Evans was quick to remind everyone.


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[Assistant] This is not a case of great law enforcement cracking a crime.


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[Assistant] It was a fluke. It fell into their hands. He almost got away with it. It's true. And unfortunately, that is 100% true. Yeah. He almost got away with it. And he would have done this again. There's not a doubt in my personal mind. It was honestly because of Elaine and her husband.


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[Assistant] That Elaine trusted her gut and wrote down the information. She was a bad bee. Without Elaine, he might have never been caught.


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[Assistant] He could have kept on living that way and other people could have fallen victim. So it's, it's really upsetting when you think about it that this was a complete fluke. Absolutely. That he was found. It's also, I can't imagine being one of those ex-girlfriends and being like,


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[Assistant] How close you were? Seriously. Especially, one of them, it was like a couple weeks before he murdered Julie. Like, had he, like, I don't even want to say snapped because that's not what happened, but. Had he decided to open up that part of him that was clearly there.


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[Assistant] It's very upsetting. Now, John Fomelaro returned to court in late May for the sentencing phase. Uhm, over two weeks, friends and family got to testify on the impact of Denise's murder on their lives with him in the room.


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[Assistant] Uhm, at times, I guess the jury and several members of the court were in tears. I bet. With all of these testimonials, it was a really emotional, uhm, emotional sentencing phase. You would think so. And the defense called several character witnesses to testify on Falmalaro's behalf, including his mother.


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[Assistant] She said her son had truly never received the help he needed. Yeaah. Which, yeaah, 100%.


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[Assistant] Uhm, after several more delays.


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[Assistant] Valmalaro finally came back into court on September 5th, 1997. I remember the sentencing phase was two weeks in May.


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[Assistant] And this was in September. John Ryan sentenced him to death.


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[Assistant] He said, just imagine what was going through her mind. And Judge Ryan said that the brutality of the crime was the reason that he was imposing the death penalty. He said nothing. He couldn't think of something that matched the brutality of this. I can't either.


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[Assistant] As, you know, it's a death penalty case, so his verdict was set for automatic appeal.


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[Assistant] And the first appeal was heard in 2007. Oh wow. And it argued that the publicity surrounding the case in Orange County basically ensured that he wasn't going to receive a fair trial.


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[Assistant] It said both that the court erred on denying the change of venue motion, i.e. that at the time of the motion, it was reasonably likely that a fair trial could not be had, and that the error was prejudicial.


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[Assistant] I.e. that is reasonable, it is reasonably likely that a fair trial was not in fact had.


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[Assistant] Denise Huber had been portrayed in a very favorable light.


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[Assistant] Well, Fomilaro had been portrayed in negative terms. That's probably because nobody ever found a dead body on Denise's property, and uhm, they found a dead body and multiple other horrific, horrific, heinous things on that man's property. Yeah, I'd say that's why. Probably. Most likely. It's like, I love that, it's like, oh yeah, they portrayed Denise in a favorable light, and it's like,


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[Assistant] No, maybe she was just an awesome person, you pieces of shit. She was, clearly. Maybe that was it.


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[Assistant] Like I don't think they were like taking out giant black marks on her record.


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[Assistant] So okay. So maybe that's why. If that's the media influencing people, then like, I don't understand this apparently. Nor do I. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Now ultimately the appeals court rejected both of these things and upheld the lower court's original verdict and sentence of death. Good.


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[Assistant] In 2006, a United States District Court judge ruled that California's capital punishment laws were unconstitutional.


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[Assistant] Since then all death row sentences have remained in place, but are essentially


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[Assistant] Sitting in like a- Limbo. Purgatory here, yea, like a limbo. They're on indefinite hold, basically, including John Fomilaris.


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[Assistant] He remains on death row in San Quentin prison and he will likely stay there for the rest of his life.


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[Assistant] For Denise's parents, Dennis and Lone, whatever happens to John Fomelaro from this point, they don't give a shit.


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[Assistant] The pain of losing their daughter is with them daily. It doesn't go away, it doesn't dull, nothing makes it better, but they have managed to find at least some peace. Uh, Dennis said the wound never heals, you just learn how to deal with it and it doesn't hurt quite as much as it did at first.


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[Assistant] What? He just drove by her? And that was it? You have to wonder if he'd killed before that. Right? Cause that is like, I mean maybe, who knows, some people do just...


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[Assistant] That's the thing, like, you wanna say like there's no way that this can be his first, cause it's so brutal. Brutal. But like that happens. It does. Sometimes they start like this, but it's just


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[Assistant] It's horrifying. And it's, it's the trophies. Yeaah. And the amount of trophies that he kept. It seemed like it was blood stained. Yeaah. He kept the boxes for the handcuffs, I mean like, everything.


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[Assistant] I mean, it sounds like at least her family was able to find peace in the closure of it, but obviously nothing takes away. And honestly, they had to sit in that courtroom in here.


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[Assistant] At least some good things happened to them after this that they could enjoy. Like, I don't know how you would ever be able to again. Cause they have truly been through something that none of us can even fathom. Conjure up in our head. At least here in this room. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Oh my. Well, I feel like we've had a lot of back to back, like very, very brutal cases. Yes. So I'm working on a haunted case right now. Oh, we need that. Yeah. We need that, you know, spooky season is upon us. Yes. I say that. It's June.


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[Assistant] Uhm, I was like, sure. To me, it's upon me. It's only a few months away. That's what I mean. It's like, I can smell it. Oooooh. So.


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[Assistant] I like it. So, hope you keep listening and hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't tune in next week for something haunted in the light. Bye. Bye!


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[Assistant] Guys, did you, I'm not going to talk about it because Ash hasn't seen it yet. Have you seen the finale of Succession? No.


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[Assistant] Please let me know. I have four left. I have a lot of feelings about it and I need to talk to someone. I have four left and I...


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[Assistant] Everybody, let's talk about it, cause I need to talk to somebody. John and I are just like, wanna talk to everyone about it, but no one's seen it. Did you talk to Aiden about it? Did you text him separately? I haven't yet, but I'm going to. I figured I'm gonna break the seal.


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[Assistant] But yeaah, so that's, that's where I am. And then tomorrow night is the, uh, or the, yeaah, this week of VPR. Oh, bitch! Ah, I ran home for a little bit while you were doing your thing. Our rotten hail.


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[Assistant] It was delivered. Oh, Ash got us some uniforms to wear. Rotten Hale sweatshirts. For the Vanderpump Rules reunion part two.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and then I ordered John and Drew number one guy in the group because they're tied obviously. Those didn't come yet.


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[Assistant] Aww, maybe they'll come in time. I think they're going to. I feel it. And then what? Oh, I watched the Summerhouse finale last night. Really fucking good. Oh, there you go. Page forever. Just giving you a little update on our lives. The Celtics lost.


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[Assistant] We were, yeaah, it was a really sad moment. I, I just want everybody to feel that with me. I'm sorry. They didn't show up, so. Sometimes, sometimes you can't.


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[Assistant] They really didn't. I thought we were getting- Sometimes you can't, sometimes you don't. You know what, maybe we just weren't specific in our manifesting when, uh, when, cause you know, like the whole thing going into game seven for the Celtics was like,


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[Assistant] We're gonna make history. And it's like, maybe we should have been a little more detailed with that because I feel like that was a historically awful game. Oh no. So I'm like, maybe we did make history as like blowing it in the worst way possible. So like, you know, next time we'll get them because we'll be a little more...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm a little more specific with our manifesting, but it was a rough one. It hurt. I love the Celtics, so this was really sad, but here we are.


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[Assistant] I am gay. She said go sports. I said drag race is on on Friday. So yeaah. There's that. That's the update on our lives and I'm about to tell you a really fucking terrible story and I think I was just stalling before telling you it because it's really sad. Oh good. Mine this week is also very terrible so fantastic. Oh good, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this one is one that I had not heard of, which is


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[Assistant] That's weird, we've been on the same case wavelength the last couple weeks. Which is very odd for us. Very strange.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and you know what? I moved out of my comfort zone. I'm in 2000 today.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I'm going to be talking today about the brutal murder of Liz Reiser and the attempted murder of Brandi Hicks. Oh shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is, it's, it's awful. Okay. So in the early morning hours of May 24th, 2000, that's the other reason why I'm shocked I've never heard of it. It's like, it was in an era when I feel like I would have heard it happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but on May 24th, 2000, the Reiser family was roused out of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dead sleep in the absolute worst way.


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[Assistant] 12-year-old Jordan Reiser was the one who heard the knock at the door. It was 4 a.m.


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[Assistant] And his bedroom was, happened to be closest to the door, so he was the only one who heard it.


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[Assistant] No one is expecting to hear anyone want to be let into your house at 4am. No. And if they are, they're not coming in. They're not coming in. But he peeled himself from his bed and he opened it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he was stunned because standing in front of him was a uniformed police officer. Oh no. At 4 a.m. that's not a good thing. No. He couldn't even formulate a sentence. He was just like staring at this officer for a minute being like, I'm 12. Like am I dreaming? And the officer asked something about Jordan's 17 year old sister Liz.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His parents, Becky Reiser and her husband Jeff Reiser, were obviously very much asleep at 4am. And so Jordan walks into their room and is like, hey, a police officer is at the door and wants to speak to you, which has to be like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then way down is I threw up. Yeaah. Like that's, that is, I can't fathom my child walking into my room and saying there is a police officer at the door. No, at 4am. And when you have a child who is not in the house that night. Nope, nope, nope. That's the worst nightmare that you could ever fathom. So Becky Reiser said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He says, this is what Jordan had, uh, said to his mother. This is Becky Riser. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She said later that he, he had said to her, he says that Brandy was in the river and Liz is missing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What? So Brandy is Liz's best friend who she was with that night. Okay. So he comes in there and he goes, Brandy's in the river and Liz is missing. Jesus Christ. At first, none of this registered. Again, middle of the night, what the fuck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But all of a sudden the words hit and she came tearing out of bed, launched herself down the stairs and out the front door to the front porch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the officer introduced himself as Officer Gentry of the Dover Police. He's took place in Ohio.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But Officer Gentry asked whether the couple's daughter Liz had been home that night and Becky said no, she's staying at her friend Brandy's house for the night. Oh no. And the officer said okay, well we checked at Brandy's house and Liz isn't there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that's the only explanation that they got at first, so...


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[Assistant] Like nothing to tell her, hey, why are you looking for her? Yeaah. Like he was just like...


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[Assistant] Which I can't say this is like the officer's fault cause you'll find out he also didn't have a lot of information, he was just kinda sent there to check. Well that's what I mean, it was more the person who gave him the information, like the lack of information.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this woman is just hearing, hey is your daughter home? No, she's at her friend's house for the night. Okay, well we went there and she's not there. And at this point he didn't even say anything to her about Brandy being in the river?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so he was like, I really need you to go check and see if she's home. Oh my god. And she's like, okay. So she's confused and now she's panicked. So she goes and she, she's hoping beyond hope that she's going to find Liz in her bed. And no, she didn't find her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she goes back to the porch and at that point her husband Jeff, Liz's dad, was down there too talking to the police officer. And when she said no, Liz isn't in her room, they both looked very concerned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is when the first small amount of really awful truth came to light. Officer Gentry explained that Liz's best friend, Brandy Hicks, had been walking down the road and had flagged down an officer off duty.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hours earlier, and she had been taken to Union Hospital. That's the information they got. Hours ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As a parent, I can't even fathom this. Like, these poor people. Like, Becky and Jeff were probably like, what the fuck is going on? What do you mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Officer Gentry unfortunately didn't have a lot of information, but Brandy had told them when she was picked up that she had actually been in the Tuscarawas, I believe that's how you say it, river. She was soaking wet, she was freezing. Oh my god. And she was hurt, but she was alive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Liz, however, was not with her and all Brandy could tell the police was that she was missing and she didn't know where she was. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's all the risers we're able to get in that moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god. An officer gentry, you know, said thank you for your help, gave them his card, said I'm gonna be in touch with you, you call us if she shows up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're like, okay. And just like watch Tim leave. And now we just sit here and try to figure out what any of that meant and what is about to happen for the rest of the day. And I guess Becky later said, she was like in retrospect, I was like, why didn't I press him for more information? But like, why would you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What do you do with that? Like you're 17 year old, you know, like I don't, that's a very stunning thing. And she said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The last thing in my mind was that Liz would have acted out in some way that would have caused trouble, because like when the police come, you think something is wrong that way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, Liz Reiser and her entire family were very devoutly religious. Okay.


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[Assistant] She was basically the last person that Becky or anyone else was going to picture getting into trouble with the police or doing something that would have caused an issue.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and of course, hearing all this after being shot out of bed at 4am by a police officer at your door, again, so jarring and confusing mixed with the idea that you're like, she couldn't have done anything, like she's a good kid, I don't know what this is. I really don't blame her for not having questions ready. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but this was actually the first time.


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[Assistant] She knew Liz was a really smart, a really good girl, but she was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, like it's, this isn't like, like something bad happened here, like something really bad. And like she said, immediately she was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something really bad happened here. But she said at first she was hoping that, she was like, of course I'm hoping she got into trouble. Like she did something bad. Like I was hoping that was the feeling and that like we could deal with that as a family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I guess they, they, they said they got together, they immediately prayed together, that was how they were able to cope with this, and she said she was fighting off all those feelings.


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[Assistant] Feelings that maybe something really, really bad had happened. She said by, she was like, you know what?


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[Assistant] I'm going to picture exactly what I'm going to say to her about whatever she has done wrong. She probably needed to do that, to put her mind somewhere else. That's 100%. To like self preserve and be like, she's still here. Cause you're just sitting there and she's in trouble. You know what? I'm going to give her a piece of my mind when she walks in this door. Because she's going to. That's the, I don't blame her at all. Like that is, and it breaks my heart that that's the only way that she could


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she was just assuming and hoping this and I don't blame her at all, but then hours were going by.


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[Assistant] And she wasn't hearing anything, and she's not getting any more answers, and Liz is not walking in that door.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Becky was starting to worry. Okay. I don't think she got into trouble. I think trouble found her. Mhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, Officer Gentry, like we said, may have seemed like a little cagey with that, but that's only because he honestly didn't have the details of what was happening. Uh, around 1.30am that night, so a couple of hours earlier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was when an auxiliary police officer was on his way home. He was off duty and he spotted someone walking down the side of the road.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And of course, that's already at least cause for further inspection because this is at 1.30 in the morning. What are you doing? Yeah, and he said that this person looked a little unsteady on their feet. So she, so this officer was like, I think this is like a drunk person trying to walk home. Yeah. And they're going to get.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe or worse? So he got a little closer and was just trying to inspect to see if he could like help or anything.


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[Assistant] And then he realized, this is not a drunk man.


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[Assistant] Or like an adult. This is a teenage girl. Oh shit. Oh, it's Brandy. And he said as he passed by her, she started frantically waving him down. Like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Looked, and she looked like she was injured, upset, and so he pulls off on the side of the road.


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[Assistant] And she was, again, unsteady on her feet, she's soaking wet from head to toe, no shoes or socks on, and she was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he said she was far more concerned about her friend. Aww.


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[Assistant] And she was saying like, I don't know where she is, we have to find her, like something bad happened to her. And according to the officer, she wasn't making a ton of sense and he couldn't understand a lot of it. She was like really upset, hysterical, as we'll find out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very traumatized and was dealing with the aftermath of a fucking terrible thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Regardless of what was going on, he just knew she needed a lot of help. So he was like, you can come in my car. I'm going to drive you to the police department. She later said that this police officer was like her hero because she was like, he listened to me. He comforted me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he brought me to the police station, remember he's an auxiliary police officer and he's off duty right now. Yeah. Brought her to the police station.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he, she said he stayed with her, like would not leave her. Didn't just drop her off and say like, okay, I'm off shift, see you later. He sat there with her, like would not leave her side. Yeah, one of the good ones.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So on the drive, he tried to find out more of what was happening, like tried to calm her down a little bit, but all she could say was that her name was Brandy Hicks and her friend Liz Reiser was missing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Red marks around her throat as though she had been strangled by something, like a ligature. Oh?


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[Assistant] Now, when they arrived at the station, the dispatcher said they had actually just received a call about a girl wandering along the side of the road near the Tuscarawas River.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Brandy was taken into Captain Robert Everett's office and she was given blankets. They tried to warm her up, like make her comfortable.


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[Assistant] Uhm, cause again, she's like soaking wet in May in Ohio in the middle of the night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she was able to explain that someone had taken her to the railroad trestle over the Tuscarawas River and had attempted to rape her. Then he had tried to strangle her with a shoelace. She had lost consciousness a couple of times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The man thought he had killed her because he then pushed her body over the railroad trestle.


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[Assistant] That she had fallen down near a log jam in the water?


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[Assistant] Like a big like area with a bunch of like debris. Yeah. And so she had clung to the logs and pretended to be dead. Like tried not to breathe, didn't move.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then finally walked off and she waited even longer before she was able to get herself out of the water and up to the road and that's where she had flagged down the police officer. Oh my god, and she must have been terrified wondering like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she said she and her best friend Liz had made plans for a sleepover that night at her house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So around 9.30pm they went to a Hollywood video.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was a Hollywood video at the New Town Mall in New Philadelphia. And they were going to rent some movies, they had a whole night planned. Sounds like a chill like regular sleepover with your friend. Like having a blast. So they're walking back to the car and they said this man in his mid to late 20s came up to them and said, I'm so sorry, I'm trying to get a ride home to the south side of town. And he said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If gas is an issue, cause they were like, uh, at first, like,


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[Assistant] And, like, honestly, if he approached me, like, once, uhm, his name is, uh, Matthew Vaca. Vaca. And, uh, if he approached me, I would also have been, uhm, very hesitant to allow that man near me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can give you 20 bucks for gas if you'll just drive me there.


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[Assistant] And he was like really ass acting desperate and he even mentioned that he wanted to get home to his wife and kiss his kids goodnight. Ohhh. He did have a wife and kids. Are you serious? By the way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the girls talked it over and they ended up agreeing because they were like, this is the right thing to do.


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[Assistant] You help your fellow man. Right, of course.


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[Assistant] They had only been driving for a few minutes and suddenly Mark was like, hey, can you stop by this nearby bridge? And he said he had stashed something in a plastic bag there and he wanted to pick it up. And he was like, it was just really heavy and I was hoping I could just pick it up on my way home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it turned out he was like, it's a six pack of beer. I just didn't want to carry it with me.


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[Assistant] So, but now he's made them stop for this weird bag, mystery bag, which at the time they didn't know it was beer. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he's all of a sudden giving these weird directions and saying it's a mile more and a mile more and a mile more. So finally, after a while, after like obliging him through all of this, Brandy stopped the car and was like, I'm so sorry, we have to get home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna drop you off here, I hope you're close to your house, but like you need to walk the rest of the way. Yeah. Which like good for her. You keep saying it's a mile, so it shouldn't be too far. Exactly. Now this is when he pulled out a gun. Oh no. And he said, you're gonna keep driving.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I wanna know what his original plan was here, and no one will ever know cause as we'll find out, he doesn't give a reason for this. Huh.


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[Assistant] I don't know what his plan was here, like did he think they would just continue driving forever? Do you think he was trying to get them somewhere more remote? That's the thing, you would think that, but they were like just driving in random directions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like it's a strange and reckless series of events that he takes.


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[Assistant] Now, this is when the man, named quote unquote Mark,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Took over navigation and directed Brandy now to a remote location.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He made the brandy drive to a field off of Harmon Hill Road in Auburn Township.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, later Brandi told Cap, Captain Everett that she thought the man was definitely familiar with the area. He was not somebody who was just blown through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because she said when they reached where the field was, he said, slow down, there's bumps in this road.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they finally go, they get to this opening of this field, which is terrifying.


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[Assistant] And she said that there was clearly like beer cans around, trash around, like it was very clearly like a party spot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that this man knew where this was, like he had obviously been here.


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[Assistant] And so he tells Brandy stop the car and then he demands that she and Liz remove their shoelaces.


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[Assistant] Then he uses the shoelaces to bind Brandy's hands to the steering wheel.


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[Assistant] And uses the other shoelaces to tie Liz's hands behind her back. Oh no.


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[Assistant] So Brandy is now stuck bound to the steering wheel and Mark takes Liz with him down the path towards the field.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As we're gonna see head on. Because what happened was once they had reached a little clearing in the fields,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. And he thought, you know what, maybe I should just let her go and tell her to just like start walking back to New Philadelphia. But he was like, it was too late. Like she had already seen me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No it's never too late. Nope. So instead, after contemplating this for a couple minutes, he pulled out a curved linoleum cutting knife from his pocket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And slashed Liz's throat three times. What the fuck?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the, um, injuries were ten inch long, and inches long, and two and a half inches deep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god. He severed her trachea. I was going to say that takes incredible like pressure and strength. He wasn't done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After cutting her throat he stabbed Liz in the neck, the back, and then stabbed her five times in the head. And then just walked away from her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he had never done anything like this before. Not that we know of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What? So he goes back to the car after doing this. Okay. And Brandy said she just saw him return without Liz. And the first thing she did was say, where's Liz? And he wouldn't answer. So he grabs, he unties Brandy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god. As if she can't already tell also, like, Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, it was so dark that Brandi said she couldn't see. Exactly, like she couldn't see the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she could, but she could definitely tell. She could see her. She could see that something had happened. She wasn't moving and she was on the ground.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So after forcing her to look at the brutalized body of her best fucking friend, Mark then directs Brandy back to the car, where he forced her to get in the passenger seat he drove. He demanded that she remove her socks and shoes now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He then placed the socks over his own hands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Before touching anything in the car because he didn't want his fingerprints on the steering wheel and I'm like, you were in the backseat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My brain can't even understand what she must have been thinking. Such a minimal detail, but she's walking barefoot now along these tracks. Oh yea, because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So at one point, he removed his shoes and gave them to her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so she's like, okay, it always weirds me out when they do weird. When they do something kind. Comfort things. Not like kind. But like comfort things. But then moments later he was like, give me those back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she was like, okay. And then he gave her his socks and was like, wear these. No, thank you. I'd be like, no, thank you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then he also demanded that she carry the plastic bag that they had stopped for with the six pack in it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she had to carry his six pack of beer in a plastic bag wearing his socks, walking down a railroad track. The most bizarre situation. Truly. Nightmarish.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And through the whole thing, she said he kept his baseball cap really low, like trying to obscure his face. But she'd already seen it. Exactly, and he talked very normally to her, like casually even. Like got to know her. Was asking her if she was going to college.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's so weird, and he, it's like, he had just brutally murdered her best friend. Yeah. And then showed her her best friend's brutalized body. He said, I killed her. And now he's sitting here having like a weird, like, hey, are you going to college? Conversation with her? It's like, what the fuck is wrong with you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So after walking for a little while, they reach this abandoned train car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's gonna get really rough here, I'd just like to let you know there is a trigger warning for sexual assault and rape.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, uhm, he instructed Brandy to get inside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On his end, trying to rape her. So he demanded that she perform oral sex on him. However, he was also unable to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So after this whole thing happens, they reach the railroad trestle over the Tuscarawas River.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the man then instructs Brandy, Mark, as we know him,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Instructs Brandy to get on her knees and face out towards the water. So on the edge of the trestle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she does this because she doesn't know what else to do at this point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Mark pulls Brandy, pulled Brandy's shoelace from his pocket, put it around her neck and started choking her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he did it until she's on her knees on the trestle and she lost consciousness. Briefly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He hadn't taken into account how hard it was to manually strangle a person to death?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she wakes up from unconsciousness, he's still trying to choke her, then he gets frustrated and tries three different times to snap her neck. Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I- Oh my god. This woman. What she has been through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god. So again, he isn't able to successfully do that, so he begins strangling her again with the shoelace. She lost consciousness again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To be clear, he raped her in a train car and then made her kneel over a railroad trestle where he tried to strangle her so brutally she lost consciousness twice, and he also tried three separate times to snap her fucking neck. After killing her best friend. And showing her the body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is because they were kind enough to give this fucking swamp creature a ride. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well and the weirdest, I mean, not the weirdest, but one of the weird things here too is he's got a gun and a knife. Mhm. And he's not...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now he just isn't using them? Well, what we find out later was that he so brutally stabbed Liz that he snapped the blade of the knife off. Oh my god. And what about the gun?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The gun, that's the thing that I'm not, I've heard two different stories about this, so I don't know which one it is, if he just said he had a gun, or if he showed them a gun. And perhaps maybe it wasn't loaded or something. Perhaps not, that's the thing. So I'm not positive because I've seen it both ways, but either way,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He did have a knife on him, he did use that knife, and he broke it. That's how brutal it was. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now after the second time of strangling her into unconsciousness with her own shoelace, she came to, but she came to without him realizing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And just in time to see him hovering over her to determine if she was alive or not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she was quick enough after all she's fucking been through to play dead to realize this and smartly she held her breath to appear as though she wasn't breathing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like thought to do that. And meanwhile, all her body at that point wants to do, I'm sure, is take a fucking breath. Exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She managed to continue holding her breath even as he was slapping her on the back to try to force air out of her lungs. Oh my god. Like was literally trying to force her to breathe and she was holding her breath. Wow. So because of her quick thinking, he was like, oh, she's dead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Mark picked Brandy up and threw her from the train trestle. This is when her foot got caught in the tracks and she hung by her foot over the water.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she's floating in the water and like we said before, she played dead, trying to keep this repulsive fuck from realizing that she's alive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Brandy waited a few more minutes because she was so worried he was going to come back. And then she made her way to the riverbank and she tried.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She said several times to pull herself out of the water and couldn't do it at first, like she had nothing. She must have been so weak at that point. Eventually she was able to flop herself onto land and get to the road and that's when she passed down the auxiliary police officer who drove her to the police station.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's wild is some of the officers on duty doubted her story. Fuck them. One officer told the ambulance driver when he showed up, I think she might be making this whole story up. She says she doesn't know this guy, but I think she does. She must.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have you never heard of a random crime occurring? Like what the fuck? Who makes that up? And like, oh she tied a ligature around her own throat?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so he was like, we gotta go out there and see. And he was like, I really didn't want to do this, but like, obviously we have to, but he was like, I was hoping she was mistaken.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the area that Brandi described, like where Liz was, it was kind of vague because trauma. And it's also, I mean it's a field. Pitch black, trauma, stress, terror. So local police actually got the help of the Ohio State Police to search for Liz.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Once they were all together, Captain Everett explained to all of them, all the search and rescue officers and everyone that was there, everything that Brandi had told them, and they used a big map and then they just broke it off into several little bits for everyone to look at.


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[Assistant] And it was just after 4 a.m. when Ohio State Sergeant Ryan


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[Assistant] Sergeant Ryan and Trooper Richmond actually made their way down Harmon Hill Road.


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[Assistant] So this was just after 4am. 4am is when one officer had gone, Officer Gentry had gone to the risers home to look for Liz. Right. About four miles away from where they started the search, the officers came upon a dirt service road and they said it looked like it had been driven down recently.


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[Assistant] And they said it kind of resembled what Brandy had described. So armed with only flashlights, they went down the tracks a little way.


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[Assistant] And they immediately started noticing that there was a lot of potholes and divots in the road. This was part of Brandy's story, that he had said that.


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[Assistant] So the troopers were like, uh, they didn't see anything at first. So they were like, okay, let's just leave this as maybe this isn't it.


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[Assistant] But then as they were shining the flashlight around, they caught something quickly in the beam.


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[Assistant] And they said at first they thought it was just a pile of something, but when they got closer, they realized that it was a young teenage girl's body.


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[Assistant] It was clear to both of them very quickly that she was dead, but they did check her for vital signs obviously, but what they said, her eyes were fixed and dilated, her mouth was open, it was clear she was gone.


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[Assistant] They saw several very severe cuts to her neck immediately.


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[Assistant] An officer has also noted several deep scratches on her back, one long cut down her spine.


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[Assistant] And they photographed the scene and they called for additional officers and an ambulance who arrived a short time later.


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[Assistant] Um, and she was taken to the coroner's office. Uh, meanwhile, Becky and Jeff Reiser were getting more and more anxious at home. They're getting more and more restless. So they left their home around 6 AM.


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[Assistant] Apparently nurses were like a little ill prepared for their arrival cause they just kinda showed up. So they just led them into the waiting room where Brandy's family members were waiting. Oh god.


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[Assistant] And no one said anything for a while, I guess, in there, but then they said Jeff Reiser just blurted out, I know Liz is dead.


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[Assistant] And then he said, God told me she was. I believe this is a war. It's a war against our beliefs and what we stand for.


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[Assistant] And everyone in the room just like didn't know what to do, but they said he was just like...


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[Assistant] He was just going, it's a war, it's a war. Like he was just, I think he was just like completely out of...


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[Assistant] Touch at that point because he was just like, this is his child. Yeah. And for him, and I


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[Assistant] And you know that he just knew. Like he knew something bad had happened and that was where he was thinking of it.


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[Assistant] Uh, they, they also, they were probably taking some context clues here. Everyone's very somber, quiet. There's a heavy police presence.


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[Assistant] No information is being shared. I mean like, intuition was definitely a thing here.


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[Assistant] Unfortunately, he was going to find out that he was very correct only a few minutes later.


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[Assistant] Because a detective from the Dover police, um, station confirmed that they had found a body matching Liz's description.


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[Assistant] You know, the time to answer some questions that they had and then they returned home.


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[Assistant] And because it was all confirmed. Yeah. And they had to break the news to their other children that their sister was dead. Oh my god, it had been brutally murdered.


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[Assistant] Now despite what had seemed at the time and what still seems when you look at it as a very chaotic


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[Assistant] Very impulsive crime. Random. By a very disorganized killer. There really wasn't any evidence left.


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[Assistant] Brandy tried really hard to give a good description of the killer.


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[Assistant] But Tuscarawas County Sheriff Harold McKimmy told reporters, we think it's somebody from this area. This guy knew where he was going when he went to Auburn Township. So immediately they were like, we know it's a local.


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[Assistant] But while police were searching the hayfield where Liz's body was found.


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[Assistant] Uhm, a technician from the Stark County Coroner's Office began the autopsy on Luzreiser.


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[Assistant] The cause of death was a 10 inch, quote, incised wound of the left posterior, of the posterior left neck.


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[Assistant] That extends from the left lower neck to the right posterior neck.


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[Assistant] Causing almost complete transection of the trachea and right sternomastoid muscle. That is it.


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[Assistant] Very intense cut. Like nearly decapitation, right? So, that's like, oof.


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[Assistant] And the coroner also recorded an 8 inch incised wound midline on the upper back and abrasions in the shape of an X at the base of the neck.


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[Assistant] And upper back measuring seven inches by four and three quarters inches.


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[Assistant] What was that? Yeah. He was very brutal. Uh, cause that wasn't it. They also recorded a partial transection of the right thyroid.


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[Assistant] What does that mean, what? In your neck? Uh, five stab wounds to the top of the scalp and several scrapes and cuts. He stabbed her in the top of the head? Yes.


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[Assistant] What the fuck is this guy doing? And the technician found no evidence of defensive wounds because remember he found her. And he had slitter wrist first, I mean her neck first.


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[Assistant] Now the news went out to New Philadelphia and Dover that morning and it was sheer panic. Everyone was like, what the?


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[Assistant] One counselor, a grief counselor at the school said, some of the students are okay, but others have had a tougher time of it. Our whole community has been rocked. There's a lot of fear. The biggest thing we're trying to do is reassure them they want to feel safe again. Yeah.


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[Assistant] She's so sweet looking. Fortunately, the unknown wouldn't linger for very long. People wouldn't have to ask questions for very long because very soon after all of this, a call came into the Dover Police Department and it was from a woman named Sheila Davis and she said she needed to report a murder.


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[Assistant] According to Sheila Davis, she had received a call from her son's brother-in-law, Jeff Mullinex. Okay.


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[Assistant] This guy, Jeff Mullinex, her son's brother-in-law, had told her that her son, 27-year-old Matthew Vaca,


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[Assistant] Had been involved in a terrible crime and Mullenix thought they needed to speak to police.


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[Assistant] Okay. So Sheila Davis is Matthew Vaca's mother. Thank you. But the person who had told her this was her son-in-law. Okay, okay. Essentially.


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[Assistant] So police immediately got in touch with Jeff Malonex, who had a story to tell.


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[Assistant] According to Mullinex, he said he had been at home asleep in the early morning hours of May 24th, and he said he shared that house with his sister and her husband, Matthew Vaca. They also had three children, him and his wife.


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[Assistant] So he really did have children. He really did have children. Three of them. Three children.


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[Assistant] Whaaat? And he said, yea, this was in the early morning hours, remember, and he was awoken by Vaka, who said, get dressed, you're going with me.


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[Assistant] And he said, he said it was weird, but he said also like we would go out driving aimlessly a lot and like smoke pot together, listen to music, like he was a weird guy. So like we just, and every once in a while we would just like wake up and he'd wake me up in the middle of the night and we'd drive. Okay.


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[Assistant] To each their own, I suppose. I love going for drives, but if anybody woke me up suddenly, I'd be pissed. I would not be going for drives. But after they'd been driving for a little while around, Jeff was like,


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[Assistant] What the fuuuck? And Jeff was like, fuck you. No, you didn't. Like, he was like, I didn't believe him. Like, don't say that to me. But then he said, okay, let me bring you to the field. No, thank you. Nope. He brought him to the field. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. And showed him Liz's body. Holy shit. Yep.


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[Assistant] He just wakes this guy, this guy has nothing to do with this, and he just wakes him up in the middle of the night. Oh my god. And then it gets even worse because he says he actually needed his help. No. And he said that


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[Assistant] He said he had to find the blade of the linoleum knife that had snapped off during the attack. No, yup.


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[Assistant] Now it was really dark and Vaka wasn't able to find the blade, even with Jeff's help.


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[Assistant] So, they both drove to a truck stop that was open all night and they were gonna buy flashlights. Why?


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[Assistant] Which I'm like, Jeff, what the fuck are you doing? Yeaah.


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[Assistant] When they went inside though, Matthew was like, oh shit, his wife's aunt was working at the truck stop. Okay. And he was like, she's gonna be like, what the fuck are you doing here? Well, she's gonna see the, my, my, his clothes were covered in blood. Oh, of course. Yup.


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[Assistant] So they left the truck stop and instead went to a 24 hour Walmart and Vaca removed his jeans that were covered in Liz's blood and wore a pair of shorts into Walmart where he purchased the flashlight.


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[Assistant] He also purchased a ceramic coffee mug and a lighter shaped like a gun.


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[Assistant] And he did this because those two have a little weight to them and as we'll see he was going to use them for something.


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[Assistant] Now they went with their flashlights and they found the knife blade back at Liz's body.


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[Assistant] Based on what Jeff Mullenix had just told them that entire story, it was pretty clear that the man that Brandy knew as Mark was actually Matthew Vaca.


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[Assistant] Also, like, hey Jeff, there's this number, it's called, um, 911. The authorities are there, you can reach them. What the fuck are you doing calling his mom? Exactly. Call the fucking police, you pussy. I'm saying.


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[Assistant] Now just before 5 a.m. on May 25th, so this all happened within like, you know, the day of it happened, like it was very quick. Right. Uhm, and this was on May 25th, the sheriff's office issued a warrant for Vaca's arrest.


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[Assistant] And a bunch of plain clothed and uniformed sheriff's deputies tracked Vaca to a nearby lake park.


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[Assistant] Now, when the news came out about what had actually happened, the residents of Dover were like, what the fuck? And they were like, this has to be an outsider. He's got to be some hitchhiker that just came through this town.


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[Assistant] And like, you know, he must have moved on after this, like that's wild. But no, when they heard it was Matthew Vaca, everybody in the community was like, oh fuck, we know who that is. He was a husband, again, a father of three, he'd grown up in the area, he knew a lot of the people in the area.


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[Assistant] Also at the time of the murder, he was actually known by the Dover police, not just for being like a good citizen.


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[Assistant] He had convictions for drunk driving and driving on a suspended license in 95 and 96.


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[Assistant] In November 96, he actually pleaded guilty to 15 counts of felony forgery. Damn. And for that, he ended up serving a one-year sentence at the Stark Regional Community Corrections Center.


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[Assistant] And after that he went on probation, and he was on probation since 1998 at this point. And he was still- So for a couple years he was still on probation when he did this. Good, so he'll get a violation, loves it. Yup.


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[Assistant] Now luckily, his arrest on May 25th, like you said, was a pretty obvious violation of probation, so they had due cause to detain him while they investigated further. Fantastic.


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[Assistant] Now the news of the arrest made Vaca's neighbors.


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[Assistant] I don't know why you would have done anything like that to those girls, but you never know what people are up to.


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[Assistant] Now wildly, Vaka himself also seemed shocked by his own actions. To


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[Assistant] He never resisted, he quickly confessed to the entire thing. And Detective Walt Wilson told reporters, he said he didn't know the young women and they didn't know him. The original motive he said was robbery and it just went bad from there.


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[Assistant] But no, that's not true at all. Yeah, he actually later said, and they bring this up later, he


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[Assistant] That's the problem. And in his statement to police, Vaca said he planned to rob them, but he didn't know what led him to kill Liz Reiser in that hayfield. He was like, I don't know why I did that. I just wanted to rob them. That's even more maddening. It is. It's, oh, it's so maddening. And no, you didn't just want to, to, to rob them. You made them drive for miles and miles and miles. Exactly. You could have just robbed them and left the car. And you came with a knife. You came with a gun.


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[Assistant] That's the thing. You knew to have them take their shoelaces off, like this was at least


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[Assistant] And he said he had planned to let her go when they got in the field, which is what, you know, he claimed forever. But for some reason that he couldn't pinpoint, he said he just decided to kill her.


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[Assistant] Like he contemplated it for a minute and then he decided he was gonna kill her. Okay.


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[Assistant] Detective Orvis Campbell told reporters, he said he doesn't know why. He just decided to do it and cut her throat. He told us he was planning on letting her go. I don't believe that. I don't either.


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[Assistant] On June 5th, Matthew Vaca appeared before a judge in the Common Pleas Court.


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[Assistant] And the judge set a June 30th hearing date to revoke his probation officially.


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[Assistant] Although Vaca had not yet been formally charged with any crimes, during the preliminary hearing, uh, that happened, Assistant Tuscarawas County Prosecutor Scott Mastin announced that they had every intention of seeking the death penalty in this case.


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[Assistant] In the meantime, Vaca was going to remain in the Tuscarawas County jail and he was not going to have any opportunity for bail. He was stuck there until he had trial. Good.


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[Assistant] Now, Vaca appeared before a grand jury on June 13th, and that's when he was officially charged.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and he was charged with one count of aggravated murder, one count of attempted aggravated murder, one count of aggravated kidnapping,


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[Assistant] Two counts of kidnapping, two counts of rape, three counts of tampering with evidence, and one count of abuse of a corpse.


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[Assistant] Sheila Davis, Vaca's mother, said this has been his decision from the start. He said he didn't want to victimize Brandy a second time or the Riser family, and this is the only way he will have any possibility of seeing his children in the future.


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[Assistant] One, so sweet of him to not want to revictimize the woman. He was sure he had fucking murdered after he raped her. Twice. So sweet of him to not want to victimize her again. Fuck you.


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[Assistant] Two. This is the only way he's gonna see his kids? You think anyone gives a shit?


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[Assistant] Fucking Liz's parents. Exactly. You know who has to deal with trauma for the rest of their lives, even as a mother now? Brandy Hicks. Yup.


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[Assistant] Fuck off. Yeah. I don't give a shit about you. No. Or you're saying, yeah, you're a real great dad. No. You left the fucking house in the middle of the night to brutally rape and murder fucking teenage girls, you piece of shit. Seriously, what the fuck. Like that pisses me off so much. That makes me so mad. And to make it seem this was his plan all along. And no it wasn't. He took a plea deal later on.


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[Assistant] Yeah, he doesn't want to die. Exactly. Let's call it what it is, my friends, okay? Like, come on. Ugh, this case makes me so angry. And honestly, and that's the thing, like, don't put that in there about seeing your kids. Yeah, cause you just, I just, now I know exactly why you did it. Like, wow. And I don't give a shit.


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[Assistant] So the prosecutor, like I said, had planned to pursue the death penalty.


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[Assistant] But it was ultimately the victims in the case who talked them out of it. Wow. Even though, like, the plea.


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[Assistant] Was, like went through anyways, they wouldn't have like sought it because the victim said no.


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[Assistant] Uh, county prosecutor Amanda Spies, born host, I think it is, said, Brandi Hicks indicated that she is satisfied that Baca will spend the rest of his days in jail.


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[Assistant] She taught, she's tired of talking about it and doesn't really want to go through a trial and the risers said they would just leave it up to me.


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[Assistant] Right. So they were all just like, whatever. Like, please don't put us through this.


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[Assistant] Uhm, also a plea deal would mean that VACA would simply go through the simp- the sentencing process.


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[Assistant] So, as far as everyone in the prosecutor's office was concerned,


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[Assistant] Liz Reiser was not going to be brought back by him being killed. No. But they could, they could do something, meaning they could spare Brandy.


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[Assistant] The courtroom was packed with friends and family of the victims. They came to support Brandy and the risers. In a statement to the press, Brandy actually said, I knew it was bad news as soon as I told him to get out of the car. And he said, well, I've got a gun. I didn't think he was going to actually kill us.


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[Assistant] And she told reporters that she was working on forgiving Vaca, but she said she was struggling with it. And you know what? Which you have every right to. She doesn't ever have to forgive him and that doesn't make her any less of a good person. No, not at all. You don't have to forgive somebody. No, you do not. You do not.


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[Assistant] And I know that these, uhm, all of these people were like churchgoers. They were religious. That is part of their religion. So I understand that that was something that was very important to them, but you by no means have to. I just feel like I hope everybody knows that you don't need to forgive people. No, you don't. You really don't.


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[Assistant] And, but if you feel like, if you feel like that's something you absolutely need, then like more power to you. But like, I just don't, I feel bad when people put pressure on their own.


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[Assistant] Heart to forgive someone when like they don't have to. You don't have to. I promise you, you don't have to.


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[Assistant] So a week later on June 30th, Vaca went back to court for sentencing and this time he had to face the tsunami of testimony and victim impact statements from all the people whose lives he had blown apart. Here for it. So to be honest, for most, it was the lack of motive that was the incredibly frustrating aspect here. It is.


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[Assistant] So of course there was a lot of people outside of like, you know, especially outside of like the family and friends here, just like people seeing this whole thing.


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[Assistant] That we're assuming it was his interest in heavy metal music and, you know.


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[Assistant] Horror movies or violent movies. We've been down that road. But addressing and like, you know, they went like the porn route and all that, which I don't know a lot about like what he was doing in that situation, but.


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[Assistant] Now addressing Vaca, the judge, Edward O'Farrell asked him,


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[Assistant] You know what? Can you give us a motive? Give this family the reason why you did that. And he said, Matt, you understand what you are about to face. You already acknowledged it. You know there is not going to be a surprise here, but you know facing what you're going to face.


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[Assistant] Can't you in this final act, before you're banished from this county, from the lives of these people physically, can't you tell them why you did this to their children?


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[Assistant] And so Vaca just stared down at the floor and muttered, I don't know, I don't know myself why.


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[Assistant] Yes you do. So Judge O'Farrell was fucking thoroughly irritated by that. Me as well. And he said, what were you thinking Matt?


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[Assistant] You told people you wanted to experience killing a human being. That is what they told us. Why did you say that to them? Why did you want to experience killing a human being? Was it drugs? Was it, was it the music? Was it the pornography? Is that what you can tell the young people in this community?


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[Assistant] Like, so Matt finally interrupted the judge and said, I am responsible. You gotta know that. I'm willing. And then he stopped for a second and said, I'm willing to give my life. Oh, thanks. You weren't though. You took a plea deal. Yeah.


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[Assistant] So Judge O'Farrell was pissed, but, uh, nothing comes close to the, uh, statement that the prosecutor, Amanda Spies-Bornhorst, had prepared for him. Let's hear it. He said the death, she said the death penalty does not provide the swift justice it was intended to. Do I think you deserve to die for the crimes you committed? Absolutely. And then she said,


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[Assistant] I want you to understand what you have to look forward to in prison.


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[Assistant] You will be beaten repeatedly and you will be brutally raped and you will lose every ounce of dignity that you have left in your body and you will live in terror. Not for the hour or so that Liz Reiser did or the hour that Brandy Hicks did, but for every minute for the rest of your life.


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[Assistant] Fucking brave of her. And she's a teenager. To face the man that raped her twice and thought he had killed her. She's a teenager. She had gone through unthinkable, unspeakable trauma.


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[Assistant] And she stood there looking at the man who did this and said, I guess I have to forgive you. I don't really want to, but it's like my mom said, if you don't, if I don't forgive you, God won't forgive us. I do forgive you. I just want you to know that. Wow. Like that's whoo.


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[Assistant] That hurt my heart. That hurts my heart, but she's a, she's a tough, tough girl. It hurts my heart that it sounds like she didn't necessarily.


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[Assistant] Feel that, to forgive him. Yeah, cause you're just like, I just want you, I just want Brandy, however that comes, to feel.


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[Assistant] What she needs to feel. What she needs to feel, not what God wants her to feel or anybody else. And again, not dogging it, because if that's what you believe in and the forgiveness thing is important to you to


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[Assistant] But if it is not important to you specifically and is only important to someone else, you don't have to do it, it's okay. Either way, if Brandi did end up feeling like she could forgive him, I hope that sh- I hope that's what happened and I hope she feels great about it. But if not, if she didn't


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[Assistant] Feel like she really forgave him. That's okay too. Like I hope she's just, whatever she is feeling, I hope she is.


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[Assistant] Happy. Me too. That's all I want for Brandy. I just wish her happiness and peace. Yeaah. And I know that she like, I think she's married, I think she's a mother now, so like I hope she's just happy. Good for her. And that's all I want for Brandy.


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[Assistant] Once everyone had made their statements, Judge O'Farrell asked Vaca whether he had a final statement to say before the sentencing was going to be passed down.


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[Assistant] And uhm, the public defender that was defending him actually read his personal statement and said, I know I destroyed three families in one night.


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[Assistant] I know the Lord is with us, watching over us. I'm ready and willing to face the consequences of my actions.


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[Assistant] So when all was said and done, the judge put down the maximum sentence on him of 96 and a half years for all 11 counts against him. And later the same day, he had to go before another judge for the probation violation where he would receive another 22 and a half years on top of that.


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[Assistant] Iconic. Goodbye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, asshole. So because he pled guilty to the charges, he was ineligible to appeal any of his sentencing because he pled guilty, he said he did it.


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[Assistant] He remains incarcerated at Mansfield correctional facility in Mansfield, Ohio.


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[Assistant] He is still to this day never given an actual coherent explanation for why the fuck he killed Liz Reiser and why he tried to kill Brandy Hicks.


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[Assistant] That's the most, that's the most maddening part about this whole thing is like, sure you just, like you said I just wanted to know what it was like, but.


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[Assistant] Since the years that this has happened, this was in 2000, so 23 years ago, Brandy has tried to move forward with her life.


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[Assistant] Like I said, she's married. She has three children now. Uhm, one of them she has honored part of their name with Liz's name. Oh, that's beautiful.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and the risers have also tried to move forward through.


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[Assistant] Uhm, Becky Reiser started a blog in 2007 and she shares her, Liz's memory in that blog.


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[Assistant] In 2014, she published a book, Through My Tears, Awash in Forgiveness, which is a self-published memoir that was co-written with Michael Camella.


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[Assistant] It basically talks about the family's experience of losing Liz and their experience with the justice system after that. Okay.


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[Assistant] Now they, uhm, uh, excuse me, Becky and Jeff actually speak publicly still about the experience whenever they can, and they still say they have completely forgiven Matthew Baca for the murder of Liz Reiser. Good for them.


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[Assistant] If that is what is important to them, then good for them. Like they're better people than I am. Truly, truly. Like I feel that way too. And honestly, like


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[Assistant] The fact that they have turned it around to be a thing where they are just sharing her memory and trying to inspire people, like good for them and good for Brandi. And I hope everyone's fucking thriving. I really do.


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[Assistant] And this just really broke my heart. I feel so fucking bad for the risers. I feel so fucking bad for Brandi and her family, but it looks like they were able to at least


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[Assistant] Like keep Liz's memory alive in like a positive way and that's really, and Brandy seems to be like thriving so. What a tragic, tragic senseless case. Matthew Vaca is a


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[Assistant] Fucking horrific. So the shit he did is unspeakable and he should never see the light of day again. That man is a fucking dangerous creature. Seriously. Ugh. Wow. I hope he's fucking miserable. But that is the story.


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[Assistant] Of the brutal murder of Liz Reiser and the attempted murder of Brandi Hicks. Damn. Well.


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[Assistant] Thank you for that. You're welcome. That's so, so sad and I feel so horrible for both of those families, but again, so happy that Brandi is thriving and that.


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[Assistant] Liz's parents found forgiveness and can speak about this and keep Liz's memory alive. Wow.


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[Assistant] Well guys, that was bonkers. I hope that you all enjoy the rest of your day and make somebody's day better.


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[Assistant] Do a positive act. Exactly. Uhm, and we hope that you keep listening. And we hope you keep on, uh, well, I just almost said on it.


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[Assistant] Well, thanks for having me as a, as a proud weirdo of, first of all, happy five year anniversary of the Morbid Podcast cause I've been a proud weirdo for those five years and it's the, what, the wood anniversary? So wouldn't it be nice if we get five more years?


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[Assistant] She is feeling better and I think she wants to take her nap right now. She's like, wait. She's like, I'm not working.


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[Assistant] I love that. And it's also AAPI heritage month and it's mental health awareness month. So it's a lot of, we got the trifecta going on and uh, it's very exciting.


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[Assistant] I've, uh, it's crazy cause I feel like I've known you two, well I have known you two for five years, but now we actually know each other. We're working together and it's a very special dynamic and it's, uh, just, it's all, it's how I have it all kind of culminate here is very, very special.


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[Assistant] I'm so glad to hear that. Well, we got a, you know, we got a long road ahead and, uh, we'll get to our five year anniversary, uh, for that, um, in good time.


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[Assistant] And also there was a really positive response to my Instagram, little mini deep dive. So I'll be doing more of those to anyone who is enjoying that. There will be more of those coming, uh, I think one, uh, one will be coming this week. So there should be more good stuff. I'm, I'm glad people like it.


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[Assistant] We certainly love doing it and we love working with y'all and we love all our listeners too.


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[Assistant] I'm the person that's always looking at those little details and I like to just shine a light on those things so that people go, oh wait, yeaah. It's not just a happy accident that's happening, there may be a calculated move in terms of why that's there.


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[Assistant] Well, thank you. And it's a lot of thanks to you for going for the idea, because I know Freddie, it was on, uh,


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[Assistant] Yeah, and Freddy's my big brother. And so to work with someone that you're really close with, like you two, you two are, you know, obviously best friends and everything. That's Freddy and myself and...


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[Assistant] Well, I'm glad you did and I'm glad we're here and I'm glad to be, I'm honored to be here for Listener Tales and be part of the flagship, the mothership podcast of the Morbid Network.


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[Assistant] Keep on, keep on keeping that going. So there are these two haunted roads in Barrington, Illinois, which is about 15 minutes away from my hometown of Palatine, Illinois.


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[Assistant] The origin stories are a little murky. They kind of vary a little bit. It's like the Joker and the Dark Knight. He keeps telling a different origin story of how he got his scars. So we don't exactly know when this originated, but there's a road called Cuba Road.