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[Assistant] We're so badly damaged that they couldn't be used for a match to the weapon.


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[Assistant] And the fourth bullet had entered Patricia's stomach and exited out of her back.


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[Assistant] So with no other leads, detectives went back to the woods where the body was discovered and started searching with metal detectors, hoping to find that fourth bullet.


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[Assistant] Now a team of investigators spent all day searching the woods for that fourth bullet.


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[Assistant] It gets a little hairy. Okay. And you'll see where in part two. But in the meantime,


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[Assistant] Walter and John Baldis were both brought in for additional questioning and they both were given a polygraph examination which they passed.


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[Assistant] It was then that Walter admitted when he learned that Sharon had been with his wife the night she went missing, he did not call her like he had said originally.


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[Assistant] It gets worse. According to Walter, when Patricia's friend said that she saw her with Sharon, he went to Sharon and after putting a knife to her throat, demanded that she help search for his wife.


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[Assistant] Her. The babysitter that's raising them. Exactly. And James Kenney's parents were still very involved in their lives.


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[Assistant] But within an hour of that incident, Sharon and Boldiz discovered Patricia's body in the woods. How convenient. I love that Walter shows up.


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[Assistant] Puts a knife to your throat. Tells you to go, like, you better find my wife. And you're like, cool. He leaves and you're like, hey John, you wanna go to a lovers lane?


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[Assistant] That way she could like rid herself of the issue of Walter being like, find my wife. Right. And also be like, oh, she's gone. That's crazy. I saw her get into a car with some random ass man.


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[Assistant] Now the good thing investigation wise was that each new revelation seemed to lead to some other-


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[Assistant] Piece of critical information about the case. Because when Boldiz was asked about Walter's story,


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[Assistant] And that wasn't all he told investigators. According to him, a couple weeks before Patricia's murder, Sharon had, quote,


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[Assistant] Talked him into going to the sheriff's office to try to get James Kenney's pistol back.


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[Assistant] But obviously they refused that request. What the fuck? But it's like, okay, is that the same police department?


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[Assistant] Like, investigating this death? Because would you not have that on note that some random man was like, I need James Kenny's pistol back?


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[Assistant] Let's see what she says about whether she shot her dad or not.


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[Assistant] Just give it a shot. Not doing that. And then like this, they're like, oh yeah.


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[Assistant] While the detectives continued questioning Walter and Valdez, a team of investigators switched their attention from the wooded area where Patricia's body was located to an abandoned farm building across the street.


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[Assistant] Found two blanks with bullet holes and powder burns.


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[Assistant] Leading them to suspect that Patricia may have been taken to the barn and killed before being dumped in the woods.


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[Assistant] That could account for the chunk of time where she was missing between when she was last seen by coworkers and when she was discovered in the woods.


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[Assistant] Now the search of the barn didn't give much in terms of new evidence, but as investigators were starting to feel like they were losing momentum,


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[Assistant] A coworker of Sharon's from the photo processing plant that she was currently working up.


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[Assistant] came forward to police with what he thought was vital evidence. According to this co-worker, a few weeks before Patricia's body was discovered,


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[Assistant] Sharon had pressured him into buying a high standard .22 caliber pistol for her.


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[Assistant] Now, when detectives confronted her with this information, Sharon, quote, explained she wanted the weapon for protraction on her trip to Washington that she'd taken with boldies just days before the murder and claimed she left the gun with family in Washington.


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[Assistant] Okay. Now, although their physical evidence was weak, the circumstantial evidence against Sharon Kinney at this point was substantial.


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[Assistant] She'd been having an affair with the victim's husband. She was the last person to be seen with Patricia Jones.


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[Assistant] Two months earlier, after which she collected on insurance policies that not only gave her a clear title to the house, but also solved any financial problems.


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[Assistant] It may not have been a slam dunk case, but she definitely looked guilty.


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[Assistant] On the evening of May 31st, just hours after Patricia Jones' funeral,


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[Assistant] Deputies from the Jackson County Sheriff's Department served a warrant at Sharon's home and she was taken into custody and charged with the murder of Patricia Jones.


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[Assistant] But once we get through the trial part of it, which like, if you're like me and that's not necessarily, not necessarily your thing, we're gonna get through it together.


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[Assistant] And it's gonna be worth it because then we go into a whole slew of other wild shit. Damn, I don't know how this can get more wild, but...


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[Assistant] Appreciate. And should we tell them how it made us feel on stage? It made us feel sometimes.


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[Assistant] Daily. Did I ever tell you guys about the time that Elena looked at me and she goes the sun could have exploded eight minutes ago and we wouldn't know?


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[Assistant] If the sun explodes, we won't know for eight minutes, and I'm not going to be alone in knowing that.


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[Assistant] What a weird thing to like go live in the city that you plan to burn down.


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[Assistant] What would she have to say if he was just having a stroke? What would she have to say? I wonder.


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[Assistant] Honestly, fucking metal as fuck if you take the B&E out of it.


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[Assistant] Oh, the look in your eye tells me we in danger. Oh god, I'm so upset. Your weird face right now.


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[Assistant] You accidentally douse someone in kerosene. You don't.


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[Assistant] So OC and Fletcher are living in Orange, New Jersey, and the Aunts are still in the South?


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[Assistant] In a horrible way, that was probably the best thing for that baby.


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[Assistant] Well it's such a haunting picture to think of her being discovered in the bathroom.


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[Assistant] Oh, that's, and just the air of like her being afraid, being followed by these women, and then you add on their appearance to it, and they're just like black veils and all, all the time.


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[Assistant] Ooh, exceedingly smart and ties with all of that is horrible.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I'm also like, where the fuck is Caroline? Cause Mary's out here talking to the press. Where's Caroline about her only child now dying?


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[Assistant] I wonder if they thought maybe like her traveling in such a frail state would just end up with her death.


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[Assistant] They could have done that all along, but maybe the financial thing was like heating up at that point. Maybe they were like, okay, like,


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[Assistant] Right. And sorry, was that in the States or? No, because they thought he was Jack the Ripper, so that was in Europe. And it was reported over here. Okay.


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[Assistant] She did do that on purpose, which to me it kind of sounds like she did. That's a weird fucking thing to do on purpose because people are going to want to, like you're trying to float below the radar, but you're picking that as a cover name?


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[Assistant] Very mental illness. Very strange. You know, like it sounds like she was, there's definitely something.


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[Assistant] That is, first of all, one of the darkest tales that you've ever told, and I shouldn't say tales because it's true. And secondly,


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[Assistant] What the fucking fuck. What the fucking fuck is right.


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[Assistant] You're not wrong. I think that's the guy's name in like something borrowed who like cheats on his woman. I think you might be right.


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[Assistant] I can't, I just can't even stop saying how wild that was. I've never heard anything like that. Took me out, my friend. For real.


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[Assistant] Let's dress in all black when we're older, not murder anybody, just get a four for four. A four for four. There's a lot of souls happening today, I had a weird accent on my four.


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[Assistant] Okay, you guys went ham sandwich and ordered so many lunar dials in the, in the pre-sale there. Like, I was like, oh my god. You became entire ham hoagies is what you were? What's a ham hoagie? What is that? Isn't it like a sub?


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[Assistant] Because you can go out into the world. This is my favorite part. And you can go to...


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[Assistant] I feel like we're both leaders. I would like to think that. No, I'm just like ballin' in my own court. Absolutely, as you should. Yeah. You know?


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[Assistant] Then we just let it go from there. We had nothing when we went into this, so we're just, I'm flying off the seat of my pants, but I thought about it, and...


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[Assistant] Halloween stuff is out right now. Halloween? And I gotta tell you, we're almost in August, and I feel like my soul is coming alive. It's like an awakening. Because I feel spooky season is upon us. Actually, the other night I went outside, like probably, I don't know, like eight or nine o'clock, and I smelled the air, and I said to myself,


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[Assistant] Not in my heart, no. It's not July in my heart. Although I'm getting a little bit, like not really, but I'm getting like kinda sad cause I garden'd for the first time this year. Like you saw my garden the other day. I did, it's pretty better. She's fucking thriving. She is. I feel like I'm gonna be a little so sad when I can't garden anymore. I...


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[Assistant] I don't feel that way, but I will feel bad for you. You know? I'll empathize with you.


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[Assistant] But you know what else is happening right now? Uhm, pub day, pub day, pub day! It's paperback pub day for The Butcher and the Wren, and you can go get it anywhere you get books. And also, it has a sneak peek of the sequel. That's right. It has a fucking chapter from the sequel. Yeah, bitch. So you can get started before anybody else reading the sequel. Except me.


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[Assistant] Get on it. I read it. Get on it. Not the whole sequel, but I did read a lot of it. Some chunks. This bitch is a scary girl.


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[Assistant] So I said, being in her inner orbit truly scares me, dot dot dot, and she's my sister. Yeah. And I thought that was a great quote. It should be on the book jacket. It was something like that. I think it was a little bit better to be honest. I liked it. But either way, it's fun to have another pub day. Pub days are fun. You guys have been...


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[Assistant] It's fucking amazing buying the book and buying the paperback and just giving me all kinds of...


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[Assistant] Not the whole state or even half of it. She's gonna go into Target though, and she's gonna sign some books. So if you're lucky enough to go into a Target that Elena signed the book in,


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[Assistant] That's never happened to me. I've never gone and bought a book that like the author signed. So I feel like that's a special moment. Oh, I'd be excited for authors that I love, but it's wild to me that people feel that way about my signature, which I appreciate. This is a crazy sentence. You're an author that people love.


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[Assistant] Never end it. Never end it. Don't end our chat. Just keep going. No, I was just gonna say, guys, go read The Troop by Nick Cutter. It's a really good book. She's been talking about that a lot. It's a great book. I highly recommend it. It's pretty brutal. Didn't even Stephen King say something about it? Stephen King said it was scary. It scared the hell out of him. So that's what drew me to it. That's big. I thought he was... Nick Cutter is a great writer. I thought it was...


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[Assistant] Are you ready to start talking about the rotten meat smell again that was going down in the Smurl House? I am always ready to talk about the rotten meat smell that's going down in the Smurl House. Let's go. It's really the only way I could transition to this new conversation that we're about to have. Yea, there's no real segway. I'm pretty sure we're leaving most of the rotten meat smell in part one. Okay. But let's recap. There we go. Yea.


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[Assistant] So in part one we were talking about the Smurl family and I think in the beginning I was telling you guys how like this article dropped in this fucking newspaper and everybody was like


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[Assistant] Holy shit, this family's really going through it. Yeah. And then I told you about some of the things that happened. We had a small house fire as I was telling you about a fire. It got sinister. It got sinister and dorksided. Dorksided. So go listen to part one. Uhm, what if I just did the whole story in that accent?


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[Assistant] I think some people would stick around. Probably. Some people would. A couple. A few. The real ones would stick around. The real ones, the OGs. Uhm, but yea, so we had a small house fire of our own, and then when I left you guys off in part one,


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[Assistant] Everybody was like, especially Janet Smurl, was like, I really need to talk to everybody about this. And everybody was like, I think you're...


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[Assistant] Ed and Lorraine stepped on the scene. As they do. As they, as they do. As they are known to do. So as soon as Ed and Lorraine showed up and, you know, it was clear to the Smurls that they believed in whatever was going on in the house.


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[Assistant] That was a huge sigh of relief for them, because that is something they provide. A huge sigh of relief? They provide...


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[Assistant] Unwavering support. Do you speak from personal experience? I just feel like if you're gonna, if you're gonna have something like this happening to you,


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[Assistant] I mean, it's not real if Rosemary doesn't believe it. So as soon as she comes in, I'm like, it's real. Only with her baby though. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And then, but like I said, there were, there was years and years of like slammed doors in their faces. So they were like, okay, wow. Like cool that you're not doubting us. Yeah.


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[Assistant] At the same time, the Smurl started noticing that having paranormal investigators in the house was actually pissing off the vibes a lot more, and things started to seem like they were getting worse. Oh no. Oh my god. They were getting worse. Throw me out a window at this very moment. I won't do that because I love you, but that was pretty rough. It was pretty rough.


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[Assistant] I used to do that when I waitress too, I would just walk up to tables and not be able to talk. I love that. And they were like, hey girl. Hey girl. But anyway. You okay? The most disturbing event.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That the Smurls went through was on June 21st, 1986, after the Warrens had already started their investigation.


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[Assistant] They'd eaten dinner together as a family, watched a little movie, they were having a fam bam night. Adorable. Seemingly with no disturbances.


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[Assistant] They put the kids to bed with no issues. They went up to bed themselves. They went to sleep. It was great. Great night.


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[Assistant] But a few hours later, after everyone else had fallen asleep, Jack, daddy-o there. Jack. Jack the dad.


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[Assistant] He said, At first I didn't see anything at all. I just felt this tremendous sort of panic. I wasn't sure if I was having a nightmare or not.


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[Assistant] And like, so this is wild, this next part, and I actually can't believe that I personally have to deliver this to you. Oh. But it's part of the story, and my journalistic, uhm,


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[Assistant] Truth is driving me forward. It is. Strap in. Oh, Mikey is preparing. Mikey knows what's next because Mikey and Dave spoke about this. Oh no.


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[Assistant] He said that the figure was mostly human, but the woman also looked like she had some sort of scales, like on her skin.


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[Assistant] Almost like a snake. And her skin, he said, was almost like a translucent white, but like with the scales, of course. And he told author Robert Curran, who I talked about in the first part,


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[Assistant] She had long white scraggly hair, and her eyes were all red, and the inside of her mouth and her gums were green.


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[Assistant] She looked down at him menacingly and quote, smiled, showing those incredible teeth. So she like literally took advantage of him and like she raped him.


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[Assistant] Holy shit. According to him, that's what happened. A scaly, white, translucent woman with sharp, spiny, some teeth. And red eyes and scraggly hair. And then she smiled afterwards. And then later, he described himself as being sore. And he said- Oh my god. Like really sore, like from- Like he had been-


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[Assistant] Assaulted. Yes, exactly. And he said that's how he knew that. Cause when it happened, he woke up the next morning after somehow falling asleep and was like,


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[Assistant] There's no fucking way that happened, but then he was like, my house is fucked, I think that happened, and now I'm sore, like- I'm feeling the aftermath? I've been assaulted. That's what's always shocking to me in these cases, is when they're like, and then I just fell asleep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And sometimes I'm like, maybe I should go to the neighbor's house. I should just maybe it's not safe here. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It wasn't safe there. If you do read Robert Kern's book, which I'll link in the show notes, and I mentioned it in part one too, uhm, he goes a lot more into that specific instance. I kinda just wanted to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So after weeks of, again, increasingly aggressive attacks on the Smurlhaus, it was clear to quite literally everyone involved that they needed the help of the church.


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[Assistant] Since they ran into a bit of another closed door there, the Smurls, and they kind of felt like they were out of options, Jack and Janet, that's when they started thinking about going public with the story. Basically hoping that someone would hear about them and offer some kind of solution.


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[Assistant] And Jack also hoped that once they went public, the church would kind of be shamed into helping.


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[Assistant] There's a bit of speculation about more than one timeline in this case, I kinda talked about that a bit in part one. People question the timeline of the Haunt itself, but they also argue over who was the first person to take the story public in this scenario of people. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In their published account of the investigation of the haunting of the Smurlhaus, the haunted one family's nightmare.


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[Assistant] And they had to ta- and they had yet to take seriously.


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[Assistant] The church is ignoring this, and if we go public with this, they're gonna realize.


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[Assistant] Holy shit, something really is going on and we should have helped. Yeah, absolutely. But others who became involved in the case a little while later though, remember things a little differently.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder what happened. Me too. I wonder where the truth lies. Somewhere in the middle end. Somewhere in there. What do they say? Yours, mine, and? Yea, yours, mine, and the truth. Yea, that's what it is. Yea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So whoever went to the press aside, when the Associated Press story about the Smurls haunted house started hitting the newspapers, and that was on August 18th, 1986,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It kicked off a huge interest in what they were calling the strange goings-ons in the Smurlhouse. Alright, the strange goings-ons. Goings-ons. I think it was actually just goings-ons, sorry. That's okay. Just like making everything plural. We can make it crazy. We can go crazy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the media in and around Pennsylvania, they were going wild, and everybody wanted to be reporting with the latest update, like each little department of reporters.


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[Assistant] So the next day there was a bunch of follow-up articles that appeared in local papers and they were getting quotes from Jack and Janet.


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[Assistant] For some reason, the devil wants us. They, the demons, are making us pay for something we know nothing about. The punishment has to stop.


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[Assistant] I fucking love that movie. I don't think there's a reason, I think it's the scary, no motivation answer at the end of the horror movie where you go fuck. You talking about Scream?


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[Assistant] To specifically name the Catholic diocese when she was doing her interviews.


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[Assistant] I just want to tell you that that light just came on.


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[Assistant] Ooh, I don't like that. What's happening every time we talk about this? I don't know, because the little nightlight just popped on next to me. We were talking earlier about something top secret, and the lights, it was just like a vision that we had, but the lights started flickering on and off, and it was really strange.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the Brendan's over there, they're cool enough for that. Yours is a common haunting, it's just, but, the really rare ones, there's only a few of them. Cute of you to think you're so haunting. Cute of you to think you're so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Ed told reporters, the Smurls are truly a family coming under visual attack.


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[Assistant] The ghost, devil, demon, whatever you wanna call it, is in that home.


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[Assistant] And he pointed to the 1973 Exorcist, like the movie, and said, he said it was only evidence that added credibility to the Smurl story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said it was based on a true case, uh, of history of a boy from Mount Rainier, Washington back in 1949.


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[Assistant] I was there, but as a young man only in my twenties, nobody paid much attention to me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What Ed? What are you trying to say there? He's like, he's like, proof of the exorcist, fun fact.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But according to Ed, the family who lived in the Smurl house before the Smurls moved in, they were the ones responsible for quote, the first of the four paranormal stages. Oh. Which he referred to as the opening. That's the first stage. The opening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I do love the theatrics. I fucking love them. I do, I love it. Now, he wasn't able to provide a ton of details because he didn't want anyone getting sued. No, of course not. But he claimed that the previous occupants had quote, allowed the doors to open up that allowed the phenomenon to occur.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which like, lots of big words going on, lots of like, sounds pretty blamey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Blaming exactly going on, but as for how the problem could be resolved,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He still said it would require an exorcism by a priest from the Catholic Church.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Smurls were being featured in newspapers across Pennsylvania, and even further than that at this point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a lot of them were actually front page news, which when you think about that, that's fucking nuts. That is nuts. Imagine you will grab the globe and it's like about a haunted family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But every outlet seemed to up the ante, of course, or add some kind of piece of the story that hadn't been mentioned before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And sometimes the new information even seemed like it was intended to add credibility to the claims. Like it seemed like the reporters were like, you know what, I believe them. And almost kind of sneaking their own things in there to kind of like validate the story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On August 20th, for example, Ed Warren claimed that they had extensive video footage of the haunting. Ooh. Exciting, right? I'm excited, let's go. Well, when he was asked to provide the tapes, he said that he had sent them to someone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then they were like, okay, like, can you get them back? And he was like, mmm. So like, can I have those? Actually, the demonic energy was so strong that it, quote, burned a hole right through the tape.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ah, you know, that happens. That'll happen. Also, which one is it? Did you send it to someone or did it get a hole burned through it? No, it burned a hole through the tape. Hwaw? Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, they're like, you know how it is. You know how just like things burst into flames. Kinda like Jack watching TV. I mean, we do know how things burst into flames these days. That's very true. And how do you argue with that though, at that point? Like at that time, you're just like, yeah, I guess. Yeah. I guess you're right, Ed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But other additions to the story were just plain bizarre. In an interview with Citizen's Voice, a local newspaper, Jack told reporters about a curious incident involving his feet. His feet, I say. Involving his feet, you say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The demons had paper clipped my socks together from the inside where they met. The paper clip was opened in an S shape. You try to do that to your socks without ripping them. I can't do it, but I did. But it did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's very mischievous. It is. First of all, I can't even really picture that in my head. Nope, can't do it. I'm like an S shape and like you couldn't ungr- I think you would just rip your-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, but I- You would just rip your shit? You would just rip your shit all up. You would just rip your shit all up. But like, why, what, what do the demons really get out of that? I don't know, just, I'm like, hmm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're just pranksters, you know? They're like, this is funny, he'll fall. Also, that's not scary to me. I'd just be like, fuck off. That's silly, goofy. That's, yea, it would piss me off, depending on my mood for the day. Yea, I'd more just be like, that's annoying. I don't like, like, John does this thing that he knows I hate. To yourself? To myself, cause I love.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I have to have socks on. Yea, she always has socks on. And don't take my socks off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so he'll run by me if my legs are crossed and he'll just rip my sock off and then he'll run around and throw it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I kinda feel like you're onto something there. I think so. Maybe the ghosts are just Aries and that's their love language.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, the Catholic Diocese was not Aries and they were not John.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So after being inundated with calls from, uh, reporters and very concerned citizens and neighbors actually, the Scranton Diocese released an official statement on the Smurl case. Reverend Gerald Mullaly told reporters,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We don't know what it is. That's the problem. We believe what the family is telling us. It's the explanation for what they are experiencing that we are not sure of.


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[Assistant] We have no idea what the fuck is going on. They're like, yeah, we believe them, but like, we don't know what we- cause the whole thing is-


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[Assistant] Like you're not going to exercise, are you going to exercise the whole house? Is that a thing? That's what I was going to say and I, I don't think so. I thought you would exercise a person. Yeah, but like you can like bless a house or, you know. Which I think they probably are more apt to do is bless a house. And they did. Yeah.


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[Assistant] But they were like, there's really not much more we can do other than that. Also, what is, what are the, I wonder what it takes to get an official exorcism, like what are the guidelines that you need to hit, the benchmarks? I think you talked actually a little bit about it when you were doing the Arnie Johnson case. We did talk about it, but there's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We didn't talk about the benchmarks of what it is. But it has to go up, like, really high. Like, doesn't the Pope get involved at one point or something? Yea, like, in the chain of, like, you know, who decides, it has to go up really high.


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[Assistant] But I just want to know what the requirements are. Like what they need to take to all those people and be like, hey, this family's dealing with all these things. See, I wonder if there's requirements or if it depends on the person at the top. Like what they think of the whole situation.


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[Assistant] But at the same time you would think that there would have to be some criteria. There has to be something. I don't know.


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[Assistant] Of the first report by the Associated Press, like I said, the coverage, like daily coverage of the Smurls ordeal.


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[Assistant] Had started attracting crowds outside of the house actually, like it had got so big. People were getting together just looking at the house. And sometimes the crowds were larger than a hundred people. That's fucked up. Just like causing a scene. Especially, it's like people live there. Exactly. I don't know. I think they might have like said hey.


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[Assistant] Like don't do that. No, rude. Because the thing is a lot of times the police actually had to intervene to disperse everyone and manage the crowd. Imagine being their neighbor. I would be so fucking annoyed. That's the thing, if you lived on that street I'd be fucking pissed. I'd be real annoyed. The story though actually caught the attention eventually though, like because of all of this.


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[Assistant] One day, he went along with a journalist from the Times Tribune and took a tour of the Smurl House. Shut up. That's why I think, like, they let certain people in, so I think they were, you know. Oh yeah, for sure. But he said of the visit,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Huh. Like, so I think they were worried that the next step was possession. Yeah, of course. Now while they were in the living room,


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[Assistant] Janet told Jason Miller and the reporter that there was some activity actually going on in Dawn's bedroom upstairs and she was like, we should go up there, like I can actually finally show you something. Like it's happening right now. But when Jack took the visitors to the room, quote, everything was normal. Like nothing was going on. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So by the end of August, the non-stop reports on the Smurl haunting started getting a little mundane for readers. They were like, okay, there's not a lot really happening here. Nothing new to report, so people are losing interest. Now not wanting to lose an audience, potentially. Jack, Janet, and the Warrens, allegedly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Came forward with a new piece of information that they had gotten via a psychic investigation of the house. Oh. And a possible explanation for the haunting. Alright.


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[Assistant] Ooh, so the psychics told Janet, allegedly, that almost a hundred years earlier, in nineteen, uh, excuse me, 1898 or 1899,


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[Assistant] Patrick had murdered his wife Abigail.


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[Assistant] And she went on, the psychic, to explain, quote, he was supposed to have been hanged nearby and buried here.


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[Assistant] Now he's afraid to go into the spirit world because he thinks he will be punished.


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[Assistant] As he should. As he absolutely should. I also was like, why was he gonna get buried on his own property? I was gonna ask that. It's only legal in some places. But okay. I don't know about Scranton. But unfortunately- In the 1800s, who knows. Truth, truth.


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[Assistant] Uhm, unfortunately though, there's literally no documented evidence whatsoever that either of those people existed or were real.


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[Assistant] Uhm, or any evidence that says a murder or an execution took place in that, uhm, like regarding those people. Okay. So.


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[Assistant] Attention to their predicament and as they claim to get help from anybody who had similar experiences,


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[Assistant] Do you know we have people climbing up the tree outside the house at night trying to look in the windows? Yea, that's fucked up. It's insane. And they have kids. Yea, and like younger kids too. Yea, that's fucked up. Not cool. And they, they have four girls, you know? Yea, it's like get it together people.


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[Assistant] Now even worse than that though, people were now starting to criticize the story.


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[Assistant] You wanted to be in the spotlight a little bit. I know. Unfortunately. So as public interest in the case began to slowly die off, the voices of the critics and skeptics were growing louder. Oh no. But not all of them were accusing the family of dishonesty or fraud.


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[Assistant] Steven Kaplan, the director of parapsychology, excuse me, the director of the Parapsychology Institute of New York.


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[Assistant] A lot of what the family had said about the attacks going on within the home.


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[Assistant] But where he differed from the Warrens, however, was how it came to be the cause. Okay. For one thing, he didn't believe in demons, and for another, he was suspicious of the Warrens' involvement in the case.


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[Assistant] He had actually investigated the Amityville case himself, and he didn't think that case had anything to do with demons either, nor do I.


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[Assistant] But he, and that's why he was worrying about the Warren's motivations going public with this case too. Cause he was worried it was all gonna take kind of a similar path. To the Amityville case. Yea. And he said, normally when you investigate a case like this you don't publicize it. No. Like that was his main issue. That makes sense.


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[Assistant] Okay, so making our way to Reverend Alphonsus Trebold, downtown. Yeah, what a fucking name. The priest from Saint, uh,


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[Assistant] Bonaventure University? Yeaah. He was invited by the Scranton Diocese to investigate the matter. Like I was saying earlier, they were like, we're going to send a priest out there, he's going to investigate a gate, and we'll decide how to move forward.


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[Assistant] He was very skeptical when he went out there. He told reporters he was looking into the matter at the request of the local diocese, I feel like Rachel, from Seven Deadly Sinners, and I can't believe that I haven't said that yet, and also Deadly Diocese. Go listen to Rachel on Seven Deadly Sinners. Rachel and Greg. And Rachel and Greg on Deadly Diocese. It's really great guys, I'm serious, really listen to it.


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[Assistant] But I've just never said diocese so much. Yeah. Uhm, but so he told the reporters he was looking into the matter at the request of the diocese to determine whether the manifestations, quote, are true.


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[Assistant] Among the skeptics who, you know, were less confident that the Smurls and the Warrens were telling the truth.


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[Assistant] So among the skeptics who were less confident that the Smurls and Warrens were telling the truth and you know, kinda just were like,


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[Assistant] Oh yeaah, I mean I know Paul, do you know Paul? Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, well Kurtz, he saw a lot of similarities between the Smurls claims and many other


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[Assistant] It seems to us, you know, over at CSI Cop. Yeah, Paul and everybody. That a great to-do has been made about it, and we wonder if it's like the Amityville horror hoax, which was based on imagination rather than on actual hauntings. So despite his skepticism and his general distrust for the Warrens,


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[Assistant] The members of CSI Cop, that's just what I'm calling it. Of 100%. Obviously, why wouldn't you? They were more than willing actually to go out and investigate the family's claims themselves and offer assistance if they could. I like that. But those offers were either completely ignored by the Smurls and the Warrens or just flat out rejected.


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[Assistant] I wonder why. Me too, it's crazy. That's wild. So the thing, yea, the Smurls refusal from this large organization, with the knowledge and the resources to explain and possibly even end their ordeal, seemed pretty strange to most people.


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[Assistant] All you're doing, like, your whole claim with going forward with this was to get help. Yeaah. And then those people that were like, hey, hey, we're over here, see if we have help. We can help you. And then they were like, no. They're like, no, we don't want that. Like, that's a little ridiculous. So when, uh, when Kurt's there, reached out to Janet Smerl to offer assistance, she just kept putting him off.


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[Assistant] She told him, you know, she would get back to him, but she would never call him back.


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[Assistant] So they referred a team of local affiliated investigators to the Smurls and after a few brief conversations,


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[Assistant] But when they got to the house, they were met by Ed Warren and Jack Smurl. Oh. And apparently Jack had changed his mind, and he and Ed refused to allow the team to go inside the house and actually demanded that they get off the property immediately.


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[Assistant] So like, that's going on. That's rude. You, first of all, you said no to me, and then I was like, please, and you were like, okay, and then you were like, actually, get out right now, it's the end of you and me. And to wait until you've packed all your shit. Right. And brought it out to the location, and then you're like, actually no. Like why?


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[Assistant] He told reporters, and I thought of you when I heard this quote, it said, good science says, first let's rule out possible fraud. Let's be careful. Let's be critical. Let's be unemotional.


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[Assistant] Today, there are a lot of emotion here and a lot of secrecy.


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[Assistant] I want to open things up and look at things fairly. He was like, I.


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[Assistant] Wanna do good science. I like that. I like that. He's like, I wanna remove all the secrecy and the emotional bullshit from this and I just wanna look at what's happening and tell you if it's real or if it's fake.


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[Assistant] A pillar of the scientific paranormal community to go in front of the media and say this is real and we need to investigate it. Exactly. Huh. I agree. Also, he's giving Capricorn vibes. Thank you. Yeah, he really is.


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[Assistant] But, so that's the thing, their refusal to allow CSI cop into the house.


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[Assistant] Not enough to stop the organization, like I said, undeterred. Yeah, they're a Capricorn. So what they did- They are, as an organization, a Capricorn. You cannot tell them no. You can't stop them. So what they did was, they just started organizing- No, they didn't start. Well, yeah, they probably did organize some things, and then they started investigating


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[Assistant] Off the property, off site, and they came to several conclusions about the Smurls claims.


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[Assistant] Now the biggest issues for the independent investigators now doing this outside of the house


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[Assistant] The biggest issues for them were that the only supposedly documented evidence of the activity in the home was suspiciously unavailable, like we said.


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[Assistant] And they also were like, the only investigators allowed in this house are Ed and Lorraine, or their people.


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[Assistant] That's fine if that's what you believe in, but it limits you. But it does limit you greatly. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And whenever the Warrens were asked by reporters on multiple occasions to produce that video that they had, or any photos of activity that they also claimed to have,


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[Assistant] Every single time, Ed Warren kept putting them off. He said, quote,


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[Assistant] He had loaned them to a TV company but didn't remember its name.


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[Assistant] Or quote, they would be released in time, but only to the Roman Catholic Church.


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[Assistant] It's like, the church doesn't even want to help you here. What the fuck are you giving them videos for? And also, they asked you for the videos and you said a hole burned through them. Yeah. So what's the story? What is the story here? And the Warrens weren't the only ones giving weird stories. The Smurls also adopted a very vague explanation when they asked the same question.


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[Assistant] They would tell reporters, quote, they don't own the tapes, and that if they allowed one or two journalists to stay overnight, they'd be deluged. Deluged? Deluged. Deluged. Deluged. I think you can say it kinda either way. I always think like a deluge of things. I like it. Well, they were gonna be deluged with requests from other reporters. Which I guess is a fair point, but it's like,


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[Assistant] At least release some pictures, cause you're going to the media so often, why can't you just give them a couple pics? That's the thing, just give them a little bit. Right.


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[Assistant] So in time, the press, much like the public, started to wonder why the Smurls were being so secretive, and now at this point they were refusing to talk to any, quote, unsympathetic members of the press.


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[Assistant] So, like, the number one people you don't want to piss off in the story like this are the press. Especially when they were helping you in the beginning. That's the thing. And when Janet Smerl was asked about all of this during an interview with an ABC news program featuring Paul Kurtz, our guy,


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[Assistant] Janet claimed that she had been, that she actually had contacted CSI Cop a year earlier, but it was that organization that had told her


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[Assistant] That she had been watching too many late night horror movies. Remember I had said that earlier? Yeaah, that's not good. That's not good, but she didn't have any proof of that.


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[Assistant] Well, that's the thing. And also, it's okay to be skeptical at first. This is your chance to shine. This is your chance to prove them wrong. Like wouldn't you want that if you are very confident in your own truth? Right, exactly. That's the thing. But she was pissed off about that and she was also pissed off that they suggested that she see a psychiatrist.


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[Assistant] I mean whenever you ask for proof of something over and over again and they don't provide it to you,


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[Assistant] I don't know about it. I don't like it. I don't know about it. I've been in that position before and I've been like, show me the proof. There's been several times that I think we've both seen this happen. Yes. Where you're like, show me the proof of that. Show me that that actually happened. And they're just like, mhm.


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[Assistant] And then, and then I do what Carrie and Laura from SUP, another great podcast you should listen to. Truth. You just say, so you say, so you say, so you say, so you say, so you say, but some people run with it. Yeah. Yeah, they do.


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[Assistant] But now that the Smurls seem to be gaining a more, you know, adversarial tone with anybody other than Ed and Lorraine Warren, and more and more inconsistencies were starting to build within their story,


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[Assistant] This was when the press shifted their tone publicly.


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[Assistant] And even the public itself started even gaining more suspicions. Yea, I mean I can see that. So according to Jack, the surgery caused short-term memory loss and that the operation had no bearing on his family's claims that the house was possessed by demons. He was basically saying two completely separate events. Yes, okay.


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[Assistant] And as for why they had become so closed off at this point, he told reporters,


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[Assistant] If there's action taken in this house, it's gotta be from a religious point of view.


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[Assistant] So he was like, basically I don't want anybody investigating this that is not affiliated with or believes in the church.


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[Assistant] Which like, okay, again, I think you're limiting yourself. Yeah, I mean, that's just a limited scope. Right. When you're only looking through one lens, it's hard to see anything else. You're not seeing the forest past the trees at that point. Exactly. And so skeptics and all the press and everybody that was starting to get pissed off about this, they obviously disagreed.


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[Assistant] Well, in a prepared statement written on behalf of CSI Cop, he suspected that the family might be suffering from a share, a kind of shared hysteria, quote,


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[Assistant] Kinda thing. So, do you think, and it's like, it kinda feels like they believe it.


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[Assistant] They aren't lying. That's the thing. They're not like, willingly being like,


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[Assistant] Fuck you, I'm telling you about fabrication, like they're not spinning you a yarn on purpose there. No.


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[Assistant] They believe what they are telling you. Cause that's the thing, I think there's multiple viewpoints on this story as a whole. And I think one of them is that they were telling the truth and that like they got fucked over. I think another viewpoint is that like they were not telling the truth and they did this to get famous. And then I think this is the viewpoint that I have.


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[Assistant] They did this because they were genuinely terrified and believed it.


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[Assistant] But I think it was a hysteria, a shared hysteria. It was, like, I think they truly did see those things that they thought that they were seeing. It could absolutely be a little bit, a little sprinkle of all three as well. I love a good smorgasbord. You know, we love, it's kinda like a girl dinner. Girl dinner! Girl dinner!


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[Assistant] It's a TikTok thing right now. It is. And it's, you know how like you just will throw together a dinner with like, you know.


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[Assistant] This is girl dinner. Girl dinner equals three cubes of cheese, a couple grapes, a Capri Sun, and a cookie. Oh, that's a girl dinner? Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three pieces of turkey, few cubes of cheese, a handful of grapes, a handful of grapes, uhm, a Capri Sun always. A Capri Sun sounds great. And like a Chomps, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, oh, cause I was saying, I was saying the, the outcome of this, you were saying this like really three viewpoints here that they,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Experience this for real, they got fucked over, and they didn't get the justice they needed. Or...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] experiencing these things and they were getting, you know, it was just growing within their family. And I was saying it could be like a little sprinkle of all three to kind of like a girl dinner of all the various options. Whoop, there it is. But who are we to say? Who are we? I don't know. And Dr. Gordon felt the same because he was like,


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[Assistant] You know, Jack Smirle is not a patient of mine, so I can't comment on his personal health. He's like, I don't live there.


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[Assistant] But he did note that the surgeries and potential injuries to the brain.


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[Assistant] I think I slightly agree with that. Like I lean more toward that belief. I could see it. I have no fucking clue, but I could see that absolutely. Right?


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[Assistant] So while Kurtz and members of CSI Cop continued pushing to investigate the Smurlholm and, you know, continuing to investigate it on their own,


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[Assistant] The public and press at this point, so we've gotten, we've gone with them where they were happy and they were like so excited to read more about this, started wavering, had questions, then were met with kinda like...


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[Assistant] People get over that. Exactly. And they're like, alright, you know what, I'm just not gonna give it the attention. Exactly. So people, these were like kinda like their final thoughts. Yeah. One neighbor told a reporter, they're trying to get a movie made in West Pits and that's all.


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[Assistant] Uh, Pittston, excuse me. And then another neighbor, Bernard Radsven, which is another fucking dope ass name, he lived a few doors down from the family and he said, it's a lot of malarkey.


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[Assistant] There's people been living in this neighborhood 30 years and didn't have nothing happen.


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[Assistant] The kids, rather than the demons, are all that screaming around here. I...


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[Assistant] Reporters began taking a far less serious tone when it came to the story and that's what was pissing them off.


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[Assistant] And an example of this is, uh, Jill Porter wrote in the Philadelphia Daily News.


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[Assistant] She returned from the beach the other day to discover a paper cup had been stuffed down the toilet, stopping it up and requiring a very expensive visit from the plumber.


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[Assistant] None of her three sons, aged 15, 12, and 9, had ANY idea how it happened. Of course, though, they were all home all afternoon.


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[Assistant] Honestly, her article was gentle though compared to some of the others written and published at the time.


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[Assistant] Francis D'Andrea wrote in the Times Tribune, most folks are too sophisticated to say that they believe in demons. No, I mean, I'm not. Alright, that's it.


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[Assistant] Sexually assaulted, I'll say, repeatedly by a chrome-like ghost. So basically what he was saying was like,


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[Assistant] I think they're trying to stir up a story because it's the tail end of a dull August. I mean yea, we're entering into fall.


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[Assistant] You know, fall time spooky season. Let's get spooky with it. Let's get spooky with it. But I mean, that's a, that's, that's a lot. That's one way to say it. That's a lot to, to spice up a dull August, I would say. And he was referring, when he was talking about this, mostly to a very disastrous press conference held in the Smurls backyard at the end of August.


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[Assistant] Most of the comments or questions were at this point intensely mocking.


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[Assistant] Which like, that's really mean. And also, cause especially, again, like if he had this brain surgery and like that was, happened to be a complication afterwards that he's dealing with like hysteria and delusions, now you're making fun of him. Well, that's the thing, it's also, whenever I see like, adults teasing and bullying other adults, I'm like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the press and just in general will believe something so wholeheartedly one day and like feast upon it.


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[Assistant] And then fucking turn the next day. Oh yeaah. Like it's crazy. Like that's the way they, is like you hoist someone up and you believe them and support them and then you smack them down as hard as you can once they've reached a certain point. And that's exactly what happened with this family. Whether they were telling the truth or not, that's exactly what happened. Exactly, like they, it just turns. I just think it's like standing there and like mockingly


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Asking them questions and stuff. It's like, I don't know why you think you're better at this point. Because you're sitting there doing that. I'm like, that's, that's like loser behavior.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just, it's spreading more negativity, which is gonna create demons for you, little bitch. Yeah, exactly. In the backyard. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the final nail in the coffin came in the beginning of September 1986 when the press reported that what a neighbor told them previously was true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Multiple things on that. One, they're a family of, they're like a pretty big family and they have four mouths to feed, so perhaps this did happen and they need to make money off of it, and they see an opportunity. Or perhaps this was the goal all along. You never know. We don't know. But for skeptics, the fact, this fact,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Confirmed the suspicion that this had always been about fame and money for them. And I can see that. Mhm.


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[Assistant] And Janet Smurl expressed her disbelief at the statement, telling reporters, I don't believe this. Obviously the press is making things up now. We have no comment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she wouldn't say either way. Alright. Now, it should be said that whether the Smurls were actually involved in talks with Star Productions at this time is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that book was adapted and made into a made for television movie titled The Haunted.


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[Assistant] And in a later story published with the Philadelphia Inquirer,


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[Assistant] Reporter Bill McAndrew contradicted Janet's claims that she couldn't believe this whole rumor.


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[Assistant] And he said he actually had been present for one of the family's meetings with the Star Productions president there. Oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A handful of family and friends and, you know, like devout Catholics that went to church with them, that believed them, but the majority of people had had enough. And by late October, the Smurls may be trying to spice things up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were calling the press to report the demonic activity had miraculously ended.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, after the movie deal? After the whole debacle. Oh. And it ended in October. I was like, I feel like the ghosts do not take vacation on October. Or maybe they were, maybe that's their busy season, so they were like, we gotta get out of here. They said onto the next one, where they were like, we've got shit to do. Okay, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] CSI cop there, even though they never gained, uh, entrance into this house, they were never allowed, they still completed their investigation from afar. CSI cop. CSI cop forever. And they offered insight into a possible explanation for the haunting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which could account for the strange and horrible odors that were reported by the Smurls.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the urging of and with the encouragement from Ed and Lorraine Warren, the Smurls got very caught up in the excitement of this moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that it was dramatically increased by the intense press interest and everything took off from there.


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[Assistant] As for why the public spectacle got so far out of control.


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[Assistant] Kurt said, the fact that the Smurls have signed a book contract raises serious questions about their motives. I mean, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if their house was haunted, one way or the other, but like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They s- if they were lying, they spun an interesting yarn. An interesting enough yarn, yeah. Yeah, that I guess didn't really, like, hurt anyone. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like how people perceived them. And that, and it's, and it really is interesting to me that whole, like grown adults will make these things up. Absolutely, it's happened. And it's, and it is very interesting to me how far they'll go with these stories. And again, I'm not saying they made it up. I don't know. I wasn't in that house. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it is interesting when you do find out like the Lutzes, like the Lutzes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right. And it's like, so you just like went for it. Like just full send. And it's like, did you guys have a discussion about this? Did you game plan it out? Was there an outline? That's the thing, you know? Especially with the Lutzes too, cause you think about it, like you know, young couple just diving. I can't imagine just sitting on the couch with Drew and being like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got a fucking game changer idea. You know, I got a date night.


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[Assistant] What an interesting story regardless. Very interesting story. The Smurls. The Smurls. That's all I got for you. With a name like Smurl, it's gotta be good. It does. So. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Weird, but not so weird that you're mean to people and you doubt their story right off the bat. You know? Don't do that, it's rude. But like, definitely investigate. CSI cop all the way through.


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[Assistant] Running is great if you're running away from something you should be running from. Yeah, that's always good, but it makes...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've talked about it. It's a thing. I like found it on TikTok. I think it's like, they don't really know why it happens, but many theories are that there's like little, like little vessels in your lungs are bursting. So that's like, I don't think I meant to run.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I have a poltergeist story today. Yeaah, we're getting creepy with it. Getting creepy up in here, it's almost Halloween. Spooky season, remember, we're doing all kinds of, you know, spooky stuff. Yeaah, also, I, we haven't even talked about, like, what we're gonna be for Halloween. Like, what are you being? I know. Cause we're doing the thing, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you tell me? For us. Oh, for me and you together? And we should, yeah, and maybe we can like put a beep over this part of the episode so that it can be a surprise for later.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a lot of fun things happening in October. I know, I love Halloween. I think Hell House, LLC, there's another movie coming out, I think uhm, might be. Oh, a prequel. Prequel. Oh, I love that you were about to say prelude. I know. A prelude to the trial is what I always think of. Why do I always say prelude? Is that wrong?


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[Assistant] Also, your dog should be Sydney. Sydney, the dog should be Sydney. Sydney Prescott should be Sydney Prescott. But aren't they being like a hot dog and a NAM? You should make one a hot dog and one a trench coat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That would be hilarious, but one of them is being a hot dog, and the other one is being... A pumpkin? A pumpkin, yea. Yea, the kids decided.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but yeaah, I think, I was going to say, where did we just go? Yeah, it has a prequel coming out, I think near Halloween, which I'm very excited about for all you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That are listening that haven't watched Hell House LLC. Don't listen to anybody who says that, you know, found footage is crap. No, it's good. Because this is a great one. And, uh, we were talking to John about it the other day, and it's not like found footage that will give you vertigo. So anybody that has that and is worried about like found footage, I feel like you'll be fine. And, I mean, like I'm not a doctor, so, but, don't take that for...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is one of the most spooky things about any season, I would say. Yeah, so I have a poltergeist today that it's a really interesting story, but I am going to let you know from the jump that it's not really like solved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Huh. At all, which is interesting because you're like, how do you even solve that in the first place? Yeah. But it's all, it hasn't really been debunked either. Ooh. So that's fun to me. That is fun. We love when it hasn't been debunked. I don't love a debunked. Yeah. I've been doing a couple debunked lately and they make me feel a little upset in my stomach. Yeah. Cause I'm like, not fun. Not fun. This. Moderately fun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. You know? So this is the, I believe it's the, you say it's Soki, and Alina can tell you I looked at like a bunch of pronunciations. She sure did. Uhm, it's in Scotland, but it's the Soki Poltergeist. Ooh, Scottish. Yeaah. Let's go. We have Ireland and Scotland up in here. And this Poltergeist became, uh, known as Wee Huey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That makes this perfect. Like exponentially better. Wee Huey. Wee Huey. Which I'm like, is that just like Lil Huey? Lil Huey. Lil Hue Hue. Yea, that's exactly what it is. Also, I like the name Hue.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, their rural life made it hard for them on the farm. Like, things weren't really going well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they made the decision to sell this family farm in Ireland and relocate to Scotland. Now at the time, their youngest son Thomas and his wife Isabella Campbell were living in a house in Soke, Scotland.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you're not really using your foot that much. So yeah, my seven year olds were very confused about that because they learned that football.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, anyway, that's all I have to say about football.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For this couple, it was a new start, and one that honestly wouldn't really require much of a financial investment on their part because they were moving in with their son. So they started making plans to move themselves and their youngest daughter, 11 year old Virginia, to Soki.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now the economy in Sogi at the time wasn't really more promising than where they were at now, but I don't think it was really about like the financials. I think it was more about like missing family kind of thing, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in October of 1960, Annie, the mother, and Virginia moved in with Annie's son and Virginia's brother Thomas and his wife Isabella.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And James, the father stayed behind to sell the family farm. Okay.


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[Assistant] Now, also when you read about this, it says that a lot of, like a lot of sources say that.


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[Assistant] So even though she was already lonely at home, the move to Soki was still a lot on Virginia because she might not have had a lot, but she was leaving all of it behind. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she was being uprooted from the only world that she knew, so she definitely struggled to acclimate to her new life after the move.


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[Assistant] So the fact that she was quiet or withdrawn is uh, pretty understandable. She had, like I said, just been uprooted from the family home.


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[Assistant] And now she was thrown into this new living situation where she was sharing a bed and a bedroom with her niece Margaret. On top of that, her father still hadn't been able to join them.


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[Assistant] The dog hadn't come yet. I don't actually know if the dog ever ended up coming back. I don't know if it was like a farm dog. It's sad.


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[Assistant] So that was a lot of upheaval for an 11 year old. Remember, she's 11.


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[Assistant] And there was about to be more, because just a few weeks after arriving in Soki, Virginia's mother got a job at the Dollar Academy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, it was only five miles away from their new house, but the job required her mom to work evening hours, and a lot of times she had to stay overnight at the academy. Oh, okay. And I forgot to mention,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She would shed a lot of her shy and quiet tendencies as she settled into her new life and eventually she did start making friends. But just school administrators, I can't talk.


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[Assistant] The initial apprehension and awkwardness of the Campbell family as a whole, like not even just Virginia, was obvious. According to Mr. Hill, who was the headmaster at the primary school where Virginia was now going,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting. You're moving to an entirely new place. For sure. You might be a little apprehensive. Of course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So since she was older than her niece Margaret, Virginia was placed in a higher grade where obviously she didn't know anybody. And on top of everything else that she was going through, she struggled with the language difference between the rural Donegal and Soki.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it was clear to everybody that she was very intelligent and she was kind even if she seemed very emotional and under distress. Okay. Now, what are you looking at over there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the picture of Virginia Campbell that comes from most accounts at this time is that of a fairly normal 11 year old reacting pretty appropriately to a pretty disruptive life event and struggling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in time, like I said a minute ago, she did make a lot of new friends. But that being said, George Owen, who was actually involved with the family at the time of the supposed poltergeist activity is quick to point out


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's also a night terror. It seems like she may have been having some night terrors, but then when you put it hand in hand with everything else that was going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, and maybe the night terrors were caused by something else.


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[Assistant] Because the girls have had night terrors for small spans of time before and they are terrifying. One of them in particular, one of the girls. Like awake but asleep. Yeah. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you can rub their back and stuff, just kind of be like, I'm here, like I'm here, like let them know that you're here. And then hopefully it kind of like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's all to say. While Virginia Campbell may have been a normal, healthy, fully functional 11 year old, her behavior did indicate a certain amount of frustration related to her circumstances that maybe was seeking some kind of outlet subconsciously or consciously. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, as far as anybody could tell, the poltergeist activity began on November 22, 1960.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not long after Virginia and her niece Margaret had gone to bed that night, the two girls began hearing what they later described as a thunking noise. They said it was almost like someone was throwing a rubber ball against the wall. If you can kind of picture that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, they couldn't fall asleep because it was so loud, so they went downstairs, but the sound actually ended up following them as they were walking down the stairs, like the ball was hitting each step just behind them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now in the living room, the girls reported the noise to Thomas and Isabella.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which would be Margaret's parents and Virginia's brother and her sister-in-law.


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[Assistant] But the older, like the couple, Thomas and Isabella were like, okay, you guys need to go to bed. Like clearly this is some kind of tactic to stay awake.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they didn't hear anything, so they just escorted them back up to bed.


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[Assistant] But as soon as Thomas and Isabella closed the door to the bedroom after getting the girl settled, they heard the sound from outside of the room, and they were like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. Now Thomas just figured it was the girls pulling some kind of prank, like once he closed the door, he's like, oh, they're trying to make me think that I hear this. Yeah. So he opened the door to tell them to cut it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the noises continued and they only stopped after Virginia had fallen asleep.


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[Assistant] So that night was, uh, not restful at all for Virginia. No. She had a very fitful sleep. So they decided to let her stay home from school the next day. Cause they were like, first of all, we have no fucking idea what's going on. And you also didn't sleep last night. So it's not going to be a good day for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now that afternoon, when Thomas, Isabella, and Virginia sat down in the living room together, all three of them watched in shock as the sideboard next to Virginia, quote, moved out five inches from the wall, then slid right back into place. Oh. Yeah. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But both Thomas and Isabella swore that she never touched that sideboard, like it moved.


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[Assistant] Hunting around to see like, is this like a pipe, is this a, is this a whatever. They can't narrow it down.


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[Assistant] And eventually the knocks became so loud that even the neighbors could hear the noise and were like, uh, what's going on over there? Like, please quiet down. And they were like, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Reverend Lund arrived at the Campbell House just after midnight that very night and he was briefed on the activity that had been occurring throughout the last 24 hours. He could also hear the knocking sounds and he eventually traced them to that headboard on the bed where Virginia and Margaret were sleeping. Like they were still asleep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he actually, the reverend, suspected that Virginia was causing these noises somehow.


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[Assistant] He said maybe she was like, like uh, putting her head up against the headboard and kind of like thudding it against the wall. Yeah. So he asked her to slide down away from the headboard, like they woke the kids up obviously. Yeah. And he assumed that the noises would stop, but after she did, they continued.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there wasn't even the possibility that it was being vibrated and like hitting the wall. Debunking. It's not happening. No.


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[Assistant] So when the, uh, when the reverend pressed his hand against the headboard, he could feel a vibration with every knock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So during his visit to the house, Reverend Lund also noticed a large linen chest, like pretty big. It was 27 inches long, 17 inches high, and 14 inches wide.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, more than a foot across the linoleum tile and then just slid back into place. Whaaat? Yea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when he made that suggestion, the knocking from the headboard became violent and rapid. Like, no, no, no, nobody's going to sleep tonight. What the fuck? Right? Oh, I don't like this at all. No, it's weird.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It doesn't, it gets weirder, and it's scary in and of itself, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This particular poltergeist doesn't seem violent. But he seems like aggressive. Yeah. Which I don't like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, knowing that it's Wee Huey, it does sound like just like a little kid pulled to it, like this little boy Huey just actin' a fool, you know? Yeah, it's true. Like, Wee Huey really does take the terror down a notch. It does. And it just seems like a little boy being rambunctious as a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they never found the leprechaun. I'm just saying. I love that, right? Maybe Wee Huey is a little leprechaun. You never know. I don't know. Who's to say? Not I. Yeah, they called it, and actually they called him a vengeful leprechaun, so.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I don't know. I'm just saying he has had that reputation. He has a bad reputation, I think is what Taylor Swift says.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the noises and the disruptions continued the next day with knocking coming from the walls, the sewing machine was turning on and off by itself, objects were moving on their own. Virginia's father by that point, James, he had sold the farm and moved to where they were now in Scotland.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He claimed that he witnessed an apple rise out of a fruit bowl, hover in the air for a second or two, and then drop back down into the fruit bowl.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's interesting. That's weird. That's suspicious. So neither of them had really any time to process what they'd seen before the knocking started up again. First at the headboard and then in the walls.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the knockings were followed by the lifting and slamming of the lid on the linen chest, which again moved out from the wall on its own before sliding back into place against the wall.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But all the while the lid is being like lifted and slammed back down, lifted and slammed back down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's uh, disruptive. It is. So these phenomena were shocking, but the final event witnessed that evening was the most inexplicable to them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As Virginia and Margaret lay in bed with the covers pulled up to their chests, both men witnessed what they later described as a strange rippling movement move up and down the bed covers as the two girls lay beneath. Almost like the cover was doing the wave. Yeah, obviously. What? No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, since the activity started a few days earlier, Virginia had been staying home from school, because they were like, do we send her to school while this is happening?


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[Assistant] But by Friday, November 25th, the Campbell's decided there was really no point in keeping her at home any longer. Especially because... Home isn't safe, it seems. Yeah. And they weren't even any closer to understanding what the hell was going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now that afternoon, as she was sitting in class, her teacher, Margaret Stewart, noticed that she seemed to be struggling with something at her desk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From Mrs. Stewart's vantage point at the front of the class, it seemed like Virginia was fidgeting with her desk lid in like an unusual manner. She's like, what the fuck is she doing? She didn't say that though.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she assumed that Virginia was just fooling around. So she called out and was like, Virginia, what are you doing? And Virginia said nothing, Miss Honest. Like she was like, I'm really not doing anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when the teacher told Virginia to stop distracting the class, she did as she was told and just lifted her arms off the desk. And at that point, the wooden lid of the desk began rising and falling on its own as the other students just watched in complete shock and horror.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it seems like she might have been like, because she said the teacher was like, it looked like she was fidgeting with her desk. It sounds to me like she was trying to stop that from happening. Yeah, like I was trying to figure out why it was happening, like just being like, what is going on here? Like trying to see if it could stop it. And then she takes her hands off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it starts just going for it. And all the kids in class are like, what the fuck? We got a Matilda up in here? We got a Matilda?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So later that afternoon during a period of silent reading, the classroom was again disrupted when the empty desk behind Virginia slowly rose about an inch off of the floor and just gently settled down again on its own.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What do you even say as a kid in that class? You're like, what's happening? I don't know. What is going on? When she was interviewed about the incidents a short time later, Mrs. Stewart told George Owen that during the first interruption, Virginia was in her line of sight, so she could tell that Virginia was not lifting the lid of the desk. And again, her hands were in the air.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And after the second incident, Mrs. Stewart went back over to the desk behind Virginia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And examined like the whole entirety of it and said she quote, found no strings, levers or anything else that had been in operation to make the desk rise and fall seemingly of its own volition.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Damn. So this wasn't a prank? Yeah, like they checked it out, it seems.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, they tried to debunk everything and they literally couldn't. See, these are the ones that it's like, when they're going and checking it out and actual adults are looking and being like, I, yeah, I can't explain this. That's when those scary, scary ones. They are. And they're, they're scary. For some reason, I just find this one fun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. I mean, it's Scottish. Who doesn't love a Scottish tale? I love a Scottish tale personally. I love a Scottish tale. And it's an Irish girlie. Yeaah, you know we love it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Later that evening, Reverend Lund and Dr. Nesbitt returned again to the Campbell House to check up on Virginia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, funny. Reverend Lynn was like, okay, I'm going to talk to your family, so give me a minute. Wild. No, while he sat and talked with the family in the living room, Dr. Nesbitt spent the evening sitting in the girl's bedroom watching for any unusual behavior.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now while he was alone in the room, Dr. Nesbitt witnessed similar but less intense activity than had been reported, uh, days earlier, including the light knocking sounds, the lid of the linen chest lifting and lowering, and still, multiple rotations of Virginia's pillow as it just sat on the bed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe there's something that like she can pull, that like makes it ha- I mean that's cr- like you just- you're trying to debunk- But you're trying to think of anything that can explain it. But now he's sitting alone in there. That's the thing, like she's not there to do anything. No. And this is the 1960s, so it's not like she has like some remote control that's like hooked up to anything, you know? No, exactly. If it was now, I'd be like, alright.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No. So the family hoped the arrival of the weekend maybe could bring some kind of just chill to the situation. They were like, it's been really chaotic up in here with the paranormal activity. Maybe we can have a calm weekend. Please.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But unfortunately, it didn't take long for those hopes to be dashed. Saturday the 27th did pass with minimal activity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Sunday, on the other hand, found the family experiencing an entirely new phenomenon when Virginia appeared to go into a kind of trance. This is kind of what I touched on earlier. That afternoon, Dr. Nesbitt returned with his colleague, Dr. William Logan. Oh. I know somebody with that same name.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Virginia's parents did what you would do. They tried to comfort her. She's like seemingly having some kind of night terror or distress.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They gave her a teddy bear, but she ended up violently throwing the teddy bear across the room and started thrashing and striking out in all directions. Oh damn. And they were like, I don't know what to do. So they left the room.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't really know what else they could have done, I guess. Yeah. And she just fell asleep normally after that. Oh wow. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Huh. Have you, have your kids ever had a night terror to like that extent? No, they've never like thrashed around and like become like scary like that. And like potentially violent. Yeah, they've never become violent or like even aggressive. They more, it always kills me because like they would uhm, they don't have them anymore really, knock on wood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and they didn't get them a ton, they would just every once in a while. And I got them when I was little, so I knew what they were. What to do. But I, they basically like, they get very like, they cry. Weepy. And they get very like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They'll fall into it and be like, and calm down. But even like, even so you feel bad leaving them because you feel like you haven't quite got them to a comforted place yet. Cause they'll lay down and like go to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What George Owen said earlier about how like she was clearly dealing with something, whether she knew it or not. I don't know if maybe she was the kind of person with the temperament of like, not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Allowing things to get the best of her while she was awake. Yeah. But then at night she was like angry about the fact that she had to move like in her subconscious. Yeah, no matter what she's young and she's going through a, an upheaval. Yeah. So it's like, I feel like that's always going to put a kid in a different mindset when it's the, when it's not quite settled or, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When things are settled, it's easier to be in a good mindset. But for a kid, unsettling and movement can really throw them off. Yeah. Like way more than we think it does.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well anyways, the next day, Virginia did return to school, and it was almost immediately apparent that whatever had been affecting her arrived with her at school that day. As the students were sitting quietly working on a word problem, Virginia approached Mrs. Stewart's desk to ask for a little help with whatever they were doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she got up to sketch out the problem on the blackboard for her, the teacher.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she, the teacher looked as the chalkboard pointer on her desk started to vibrate because she was about to like grab for it, but it started vibrating on her desk and eventually fell off of the edge of her desk. And then when she reached down to touch the desk,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was surprised to find that it too was vibrating slightly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then without any kind of warning, and I, I wanna say that this is probably like the most quote unquote violent thing to happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Wee Huey does not like Mrs. Stewart, I guess. No, and it's weird that it's following her to school. I know. You know? That's the thing. Wow. Now when Virginia arrived home from school that afternoon, the family made the decision to send her actually to stay with relatives in nearby Dollar.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where they hoped she would get a break from the paranormal activity. Cause they're like, she's really not sleeping, she's going to school, like this is a lot on her as an 11 year old. So hopefully if we send her over here, she can, maybe the activity is like linked to the house somehow. Yeah. I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He found that the knocking noises continued in the new location in a series of knocks that range from gentle tapping to loud raps, always in the vicinity of Virginia. Oh spooky.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wild. Now the next day, Dr. Logan arrived in Dollar and the company of his wife, also a doctor, Dr. Sheila Logan, and they wanted to visit Virginia to get a load of this. Now when Sheila first heard the stories about the activity from her husband that seemed to be following Virginia, she was like, okay, sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she seriously actually doubted what was going on. She talked the quote unquote activity up to just a childish, childish prank. Okay. But as soon as she got to the house where Virginia was staying, Sheila experienced the knockings firsthand and walked away, quote, satisfied that the noises from within the room were not caused by the activity of anyone in it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is such a haunting statement. Yeah. Whatever she was hearing in that room was not caused by anyone in it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So later that night, the Logans were called back to the house in Dollar by the family, who were concerned because Virginia had fallen into another trance. And they were like, yeah, we haven't experienced this before, so we're not really sure what to do. So when they got to the home, Dr. Logan discovered


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That Virginia was sitting up in bed, quote, talking in a loud, unnatural voice, calling for Toby and Anna and throwing herself about the bed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to Logan, even though Virginia's eyes were closed, she heard and responded to questions normally. But she did note that her responses indicated a lack of shyness that was typically present in Virginia's personality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like usually, usually she was like a pretty soft-spoken shy child. But when she was answering these questions, it was very like... confident. Yeah, just like outside of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Her natural kind of disposition. That's an interesting like little side effect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of typical poltergeist activity. Yeah. Like the, obviously the moving of the furniture and that kind of tapping noises, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just, it's not your typical poltergeist story. Yea, it's very strange. So Virginia returned home the next day, November 30th, and the family actually reported no unusual activity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that break did prove to be short-lived because the noises returned the following night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just around the time, and it always seems to be around the time that the girls are getting ready for bed. Of course. Which makes you think that it's a prank. I know. But then they try to figure it out and there's no way that the girls are causing this. Yeah, it's like, what the fuck?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So just before 9pm, Dr. Nisbet and Dr. Logan set up a camera in the girl's bedroom hoping to capture any of this activity on film.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now the camera captured long periods of continual noise, quote, ranging from barely perceptible tappings to agitated knocks. More rippling of the bed cover, and quote, a considerable amount of hysterical talking by Virginia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she's, she's this very like confident, outspoken girl in her trances. And then when she's awake and out and about, she's very shy and reserved. Yeah. It's just interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that same night, Reverend Lund arrived at the Campbell House in the company of three other local ministers to conduct a service of intercession, I believe is what it's called. It's not an exorcism.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But what they were doing now, a service of intercession, is basically just a prayer session where a group prays to their God on behalf of another person. In this case, Virginia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So throughout the 15 minute prayer session, these men who were praying over her reported hearing considerable loud banging, quote, a harsh rasping, sawing noise, and screams and bouts of hysterical talking from Virginia, which they described as babbling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What the fuck? So this was clearly agitating. Yeah. The entity. Ew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now the activity which had begun about a week earlier had not only been disruptive to everybody involved but also to the large number of witnesses to the phenomenon. It wasn't just Virginia that was going through it, it was everybody. Now usually in paranormal cases similar to this one,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It kind of annoys me when they do things like this because it was poking fun at this. Wow. And it's like, this is an 11 year old girl. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, come on. It's one thing if this is adults and even that's like pretty rude, but. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Virginia's teacher Margaret was interviewed for it and she told reporters, I don't believe in the supernatural, but I was mesmerized by what I saw. And she was referring to that movement of the desk. She said, it looked like an elaborate practical joke, but there was no string and no one touched the desk when it moved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, in addition to the description of paranormal activity occurring at school, the UPI article noted the rumors.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just said that like Meredith Marks a little bit. There's this new clip on Housewives where one of the Housewives goes


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But this news report raised concern among the Reverend and the doctors and Virginia's family that any additional attention was going to make things harder for Virginia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh damn. They were like, like, all these articles, they're going to fuck shit up. Like, it's, we don't need this. Which I mean, yeah. She's 11.