[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After telling my teacher about the case, we returned to the exam room and the attending doctor performed a complete physical, only to confirm, much to my relief, that she could find nothing wrong with Bonnie. She said that we could run blood work, but only after they tell us the reason for coming to an expensive referral center with a seemingly healthy pooch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That said, so they said that the week before, Bonnie was feeling weak and had started to limp on her hind leg. The next day she stopped eating and they took her to the neighborhood vet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He examined her and told them that she had advanced incurable bone cancer and he recommended that they put her to sleep. He assured them that it was the humane choice because she was suffering and it would only get worse. They explained the heartbreaking situation to their two small children and told them that Bonnie was very sick and that she will be with grandma in heaven.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bonnie was euthanized and buried by her family in the woods, not far from their house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Following the tragic and unexpected chain of events, the family went on a four-day vacation to relax and mourn the loss of their beloved pet. When they returned home,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bonnie was waiting for them on the front porch. What?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What? At first they assumed that a new basset hound had miraculously adopted them, but after visiting Bonnie's grave and finding it to be dug up with a torn body bag,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They knew that Bonnie had either come back from the dead or had been buried alive. The latter being the more logical explanation. Oh my God. Holy shit. She was hungry and had lost some weight but was otherwise perfectly healthy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is why they chose an advanced teaching hospital for her post-mortal checkup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We never did figure out what ailment had mimicked her misdiagnosed bone cancer because after running an additional battery of tests, she was declared perfectly healthy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god. Happy to have Bonnie back and after explaining to the children that no, grandma is not coming back, they chose not to confront their now ex-veterinarian on his malpractice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unburied himself. She- I would literally be thinking about that 24-7 that if that was Bailey, I'd be like, oh my god, Bailey woke up in a body bag. I know. And had to dig herself out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My practice was in a rural area where most owners choose to bury their pets. So for me, the emotional burden of performing euthanasia was weighed down even more by the deep terror that I would fail.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My taffaphobia by proxy eventually brought me to leave clinical practice. A difficult decision, but one that I'm totally happy with and which has brought me new opportunities and adventures. So that's my story. Keep it weird, but not so weird that you obsess about burying dogs alive because of an asshole veterinarian that kills dogs for no reason and can't even get that right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I always thought, like, I was, I'm always in, like, I'm really amazed by veterinarians that they can handle what they can handle when it comes to animals and, and I always thought about that, like, when they, you know, when Bailey passed away, I was sitting there and I was like, we're grieving, but this poor vet,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thanks to them and we're like, you know, thank you for making us feel comfortable about this and like, you know, we trust you and thank you so much.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a huge burden that like, and for you to recognize that that just was like too much, like good for you. And I'm so glad that you found like new adventures and Bruce.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know you don't give a fuck, but like. I think you do give a fuck. But Bruce, holy shit dude. Bruce, my guy. Bruce, my guy. Bruce and Bonnie too, lol. And Bonnie. I, that was a wild tale, like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those were some stories, guys. Those were. I wanna know what that blood is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I gotta know. And I love that you just cleaned it and it's like, is it fresh blood every time?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or does it show up like a little... There you go, that's a great song. Uh, is it like, is some of it old?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what we're all wondering here, a human, obviously. But like, not, cause there's no human inside. Sure not Carl, unless Carl is a human in a cat's body, and we're just finding a crypt in here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey Prime members, you can listen to Morbid early and ad free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen ad free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We decided to revisit the Jambonais-Ramsay case because one, there's been a little talk of it in the news lately with the possibility of DNA testing happening and I just thought we could do a better job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's been, there was stuff that I just didn't talk about or I felt like I rushed through. So I figured I would take the time to do what is going to be only a two part. It's not going to go further than that. We'll see. Two parts. I'm capping it at that cause uhm, we're going to talk about the crime.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're going to talk about some of like the crazy stuff involved in the crime and the crime scene, the autopsy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In part one and then part two, we're going to really discuss the intruder theory. And we're going to discuss some of the suspects that have come out. Alright.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just putting it out there right now, I do not know who killed John Penne Ramsey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not gonna say what my thoughts are on that because I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, right now, I just want to say that, uhm, John Ramsey, JonBenet's father, did launch a Change.org petition where he asked the Colorado government to allow an independent agency to test DNA found at JonBenet's crime scene.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's pushing very hard to have that happen. Wow. So there's that. Uhm, they're still petitioning as we speak.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Police to allow Parabon Nano Labs, which we've heard before. That's like a pretty, uh, big lab that will test, like, especially old DNA. Uhm, they're petitioning to have them test the DNA.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, John Benet's half-brother, John Andrew, is also helping his father try to get this push forward. Nice. Uhm, and in August, they did, uhm, uh, Joe Biden did put forward a law that they were like really, the Ramses were really, really like strong supporters of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To not do it is criminal and negligent and lazy. The Boulder Police have said they are actively reviewing genetic DNA testing processes to try to make this happen, but it has not happened yet. Alright.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think there was a lot of like sensational news coming out about it recently that everyone's like, we're gonna know within hours. What they were saying was if they give the DNA to Parabon NanoLabs, they could potentially have an answer in hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we will all update if and when that happens, but yeah. Alright. So I just wanted to start that and now let's talk about Jean-Mene Ramsey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jean Benet Patricia Ramsey was born August 6, 1990 in Boulder, Colorado. She was born to John Bennett Ramsey and Patricia Patsy Ramsey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Together they had JonBenet who was six at the time of this crime and her brother Burke who was nine years old at the time of this crime.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were, you know, a very like well-off family. They lived in like this beautiful like Tudor style home. The home is beautiful. Yeah, it's a really beautiful house. But apparently it's like a very maze-like house. A lot of their, their former, um, housekeeper actually said that. We'll talk about her in the second part for sure. Um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she said it's like very labyrinthian, so it can be like very confusing to get around. Okay. But not ideal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but Patricia was his second wife. He had three children from his first marriage, a son and two daughters. One daughter Elizabeth actually passed away in a 1992 car crash.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Patricia, uh, Patsy was a former beauty queen from West Virginia. She had held the title of Miss West Virginia. So that's like a big deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was beautiful for sure. Oh yea. Uhm, this was a big point of pride for her. She carried it down to her daughter Jean-Benet, who also had entered pageants from a very young age, like the baby. Yea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jean Benet had won America's Royal Miss, Little Miss, uh, what is it, Little Miss Charleroi, Little Miss Colorado, National Tiny Miss Beauty, Colorado State All-Star Kids Cover Girl,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think she's one more, but that's like a good line up that I found. There you go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not gonna share my thoughts on pageants. Pageants are definitely not, uh, easy for a kid this age. They're not just them walking out and being like, yay! And then it's like, that's it. It's like a lot of hard work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I have not, but- Not you, I meant them. I know, but I do have not. I know you have. She was wearing a lot of makeup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, were very interesting in adult costumes at times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was like bleached. Uhm, and I was just gonna say kids that age usually wear flippers to cover missing teeth, which I never understood because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who is age appropriate and not a baby who has been turned into an adult.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there was definitely some pageant mom behavior that was really focused on later when this case broke.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think we've got to a place where we can look at it a little more, like a little differently, exactly. And we can look at it like, I think we've all seen that the media doesn't give you the full story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look at it and go, okay that is part of the story, but there's more to this and I shouldn't really just take this at face value of what's splashed on a tabloid page.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that's the reason too why we want to redo some of these that we did even in the beginning of the podcast. Because we even look at things differently now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and I think it's, I like to go into things now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's really hard to argue against the fact that there was 100% some pageant mom behavior here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A story that did stick with me that I read in a couple of sources was that, uhm, her friend actually came over once and she noticed JonBenet's numerous trophies and crowns and all that and they were in this very like big case all displayed and the friend was like wow those are so pretty like wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she, so she said this to JonBenet, and JonBenet said, they're not really mine, they're more my mom's trophies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I do know that that happens a lot, that people will try to live vicariously through their kids.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you know, there's that. Now people who knew the family, uh, very well say that she wasn't forced to perform. She wasn't forced to do this, she just loved being on stage. She could be shy and quiet outside of that, but she really loved the stage. She like flourished on there. Try theatre.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know, that's the- Let's show a school picture. Yeah, and it's like, that's the thing. And they do that with a lot of these cases where they'll only show certain photos that-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can we show photos of her that are like, like you said, like her just being a six year old? Right. Like do we have to splash all those to further perpetuate?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like pedophiles and like people who will take those in a way that they shouldn't. Like we really don't need to do that. Like just show her as a six year old so everybody can be like, wow, that like start like actually grieve for her. Right. But you know, whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, in the same article she's described as being a very loving, spunky, and very kind child.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'll get into like the, there's like Santa theories and stuff in this, that's gonna happen in part two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's one man, Bill McReynolds, who got like put on the suspect list by theorists basically and he was like this, he would play Santa at the parties and actually she gave him a, and I'll get into this more in part two, but I'll just mention it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so December 25th, 1996, Patricia, John, John Bonet and Burke went to a Christmas party at a very close family friends home. This home was at the Whites home, that was Fleet and Priscilla White. They were very close family friends.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jean Benet, you know, she partied, she had some food, she hung out, she opened presents, then she fell asleep on the way home in the car. So her parents...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This was very early. Um, according to Patricia, she woke up in the five o'clock hour in the morning and she found a two and a half page handwritten ransom note on a staircase at the bottom of the staircase. When she went down there, like woke up, brushed her teeth, walked down there. This is what she finds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the note claimed to be from a kidnapper who claimed that they had JonBenet. They wanted money for her safe return.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it was a very strange, long, threatening, weird, ransom note.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was then that she said, that she said, she ran upstairs, found that JonBenet was not in her bed, and then woke up Jon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mr. Ramsey, listen carefully. We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business, but not the country that it serves. At this time, we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed, and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A hundred thousand will be in a hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand in twenty dollar bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you get home, you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting, so I advise you to be rested.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want, if we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier pickup delivery of delivery. And that was like kind of X'd out pickup of your daughter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You will be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you, so I advise you do not provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as police, FBI, etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain, John. You are not the only fat cat around, so don't think that kids


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now, John.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a lot of, so I saw a lot of people talking about how...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This seems like something that they got out of like a movie. Like a detective magazine. It's outrageously long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of people mentioned, why did they say like bring an adequate size attache to the bank?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like why does that matter? That's a weird thing to write. The $118,000 is the strangest amount and very low for ransom of an actual human child.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, there's also the, like, uhm, when they say, uh, hold on, let me see the, when they say you stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us, why are you only putting it at 99%?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I don't at all. And then, uhm, people have pointed out that it begins with Mr. Ramsey, but then at the end it says, don't try to grow a brain, John. So suddenly we're on a first name business? You started this out with Mr. Ramsey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They wrote Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, but this one's only to Mrs., uh, Mr. Ramsey. Uh, they also, it's weird, I saw people pointing out that it's weird that they said, we respect your business. Cause you don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're, you kidnapped his daughter for ransom and you're claiming you're gonna behead her. Right. Like and you're saying like we respect your business, like why would you even let that out if you did? Like it's just so very strange. None of it makes sense. No. At all. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so there was a partial draft of the note found in the home written on Patsy's notepad. Weird. This note came from...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A notepad, Patsy's notepad that was in the home. It was written by a pen that was on the counter. So they didn't come in with paper and a pen, they found one in the house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Peter Piper picked a pick a pick. Well I said a lot of P's. You did. Uh, these are, this is the piece of the puzzle that people do not understand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They did ask, it was sitting on the counter and like a little, like the pen was in a little cup and it was like out there. Okay, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But on another piece of paper in the pad, Detective Jeff Githart, who was the handwriting expert for the Boulder police, later found a started and abandoned ransom note that said, and it said, one of them said Mr. and Mrs. and then a line.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it appeared that they had started to write an R but had stopped. It was like a line to begin an R. Sure. So the first one says Mr. and Mrs. like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like you actually at first were like, I'm gonna write it to both of them. Then you were like, no, I'm gonna write it to him. Why wouldn't you write it to both of them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, John received a bonus of exactly $118,000 for that Christmas, which people have pointed to, and I originally pointed to, as


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There you go. That's, how would anybody know that? But, I will say, the bank statement was out on the counter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These, whatever happened here, whoever did this, there was no ransom, ever. Being, this was never a kidnapping. No. In my opinion, this was never, this wasn't a kidnapping that went bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This was never a kidnapping. They would have come into the house with a ransom note, the end. So this was all supposed to be staged. So they might have just looked at that 118 and were like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There just was never that happening. So if, if this is an intruder, then they could have looked, known they had to do this quick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And looked at that and said, okay, $118,000 just went into his bank account.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna write that. Like, they could have just done that. Exactly. Or it can be someone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Closer, that knew that that money was there and that could have been like a business, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If this is like somebody who hates his business and is like a business rival, maybe that's like a- that's like a-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what we want for your daughter. But it's again very strange cause it's like, for a human that is a very low ransom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nothing. And in 2015, former Boulder Colorado police chief Mark Beckner said quote, the FBI told us they'd never seen a 2.5 page ransom note. No note has ever been written at the scene and then left at the scene with the dead victim at the scene other than this case.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unless your thought process is we don't actually want the money, we just want to hurt him and we want him to find his daughter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To sit in someone's home in the middle of the night. Right. After killing their six year old daughter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, it's very strange. It's very strange. And again, 21 minutes, like 21, what intruder does that? No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's, a lot of people have a lot of, that's the part that people are having trouble wrapping their brain around. Of course. And I continue to have trouble wrapping my brain around. Me too. Some of this stuff you can sit there and go, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can go to an intruder theory with this, like I can go somewhere else with this, but this, I don't understand this. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But like, I mean strange things happen, but this is real strange.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So experts think the note writer intended to disguise their natural handwriting. They don't think that this was their...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Their organic handwriting, they were trying to disguise it. A 1997 Vanity Fair article spoke to, quote, an investigator closely involved with the testing of the ransom note.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they said that they analyzed 74 handwriting samples and Patricia Ramsey's handwriting was the only sample that quote, set off alarm bells. So there's that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In 2001, handwriting analysis, uhm, or excuse me, analysts Larry Ziegler and Gideon Epstein thought Patricia could be the writer of the note. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Handwriting, uhm, excuse me, Colorado Bureau of Investigation report said quote, and this is the Colorado Bureau of Investigations report, said quote, there are indications that the author of the ransom note is Patricia Ramsey. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there is a lot of people looking at it and saying that they believe that she might have written it, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the other hand, handwriting analysis can be a little funky, iffy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] None of them are saying she is absolutely 100%. Exactly. But, weird.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you look at her handwriting next to this handwriting, it is pretty, it's pretty close. And there's a lot of little, little things, quirks, handwriting quirks that they look at that are the same throughout.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is, but then you have to, it's, these are the things that you can look at both sides.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because they're not definitive, but they're slightly damning in some ways. So it's like one of those things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After she got, and we're gonna get into the 911 call, but after she called, she immediately called friends and family. Right after.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The note said specifically not to do any of that or your daughter dies. Right. And that we are watching you. Like monitoring. I get that this may just be instinct that you need to call people because you're panicking. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you can go, okay, some of these things can be a hysterical parent. Absolutely. That just makes that decision. Other things, questionable. Uh huh. For sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kimberly Archuleta was the 911 operator that took the Ramsey phone call that morning. She told Kimberly Archuleta that she wasn't sure how long her daughter had been missing and was literally begging police to get there. It's a very harrowing 911 call. You can listen to it. She sounds absolutely terrified in the 911 call.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Before you, before she hangs up the phone, you can hear her kind of like mumble to herself like, help me Jesus, help me. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She never says JonBenet's name. She never says her name is JonBenet Ramsey. She also hung up the phone very abruptly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, didn't wait for instructions, didn't wait for them to say hang on the phone with me until the police get there. She just down goes the phone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That I- people can definitely look at different ways. I don't understand that. Yeah, and you're- you have kids obviously. I can say-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would be on there until the police got there. Just to be like, I don't want to lose you. I don't want them to get lost on the way here. Please keep telling me they're coming. Tell me that they're outside. Tell me that they're here. Like that would be my thought, I would think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause I, that would be like, just you're safe, like somebody needs to get here and help us. And if you hang up, you've, you've ended that lifeline and you just have to wait.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Archuleta, the operator, actually told Dateline that she immediately thought something wasn't right about the call.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She said that the end of the call was strange because again, she ended the call abruptly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she didn't say anything that indicated an end to the call.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The phone didn't actually disconnect. She said like it just kinda went back on the cradle but didn't actually disconnect. And, cause remember this is a landline, this is back in the 90s.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so she, so Archeletta claims she heard not only John and Patricia speaking muffled right after she put down that phone, but she heard a third voice that was a little more faint.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now this is strange because they claim later that Burke, who was the only other person in the house, the nine year old, was asleep during this call. He was not near them or awake at this time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So people have listened to the audio of this call, lots of different experts, and they hear various things in these muffled voices a little bit, but it's all pretty much the same. There's not a lot of variation with what they hear. They hear a couple of different things. It's a little, when you listen to it,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With an untrained ear, I think it's a little like EVPs where you can probably hear whatever you want to hear if you try hard enough. But mainly what they hear is a male voice who is thought to be John Ramsey saying angrily, we're not speaking to you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to an article by Bella Brennan, uh, Kim, the 911 operator was quoted as saying about Patsy, quote, if you hear the frantic in her voice as she's speaking to me, where she couldn't even answer my questions, it immediately stopped. It sounded like she said, okay, we've called the police, now what? And that disturbed me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, of course. Cause she said basically that panic, panic, panic, that phone went down, she thought she hung it up and then she turned and said, we called the police now what? Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, and she's, so uhm, Kim said, So I remained on the phone trying to listen to what was being said. It sounded like there were two voices in the room, maybe three. Different ones. I had a bad feeling about this. To me it sounded rehearsed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she kept telling her boss and her family that something bothered her about that call and she told them they had to tell authorities to listen to the end of the call.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They ended up sending the tape to aerospace technicians and they declared that there were three different voices at the end of that call, those aerospace technicians. And after Patsy had meant to hang up, that's when they heard it. Apparently a ton of the technicians at aerospace all listened to the call by themselves, like independently.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They like take away background noise there and they like really clean the audio a little bit. So they called in the Boulder police who sent detective Melissa Hickman to listen at aerospace. She listened independently as well. They put her, they did not tell her what they heard. They sent her into a room and said, listen to this, tell us what you hear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to hear anything else, which can be a little confirmation bias-y, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It sounds like it. And the three distinct voices do sound like they're on there because you do hear the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When everybody shows up, Burke is asleep and sleeps through all of it. And people go into the room and look and they see that he's just in his bed asleep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He never woke up through the chaos in the house. And so a lot of people are like, was he just told to lay there and pretend to be asleep through this whole thing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So another interesting note is that Patsy told Archuleta during the 911 call, and you can hear it when you listen to the call, that the note said, she goes, it says SBTC victory. That's all she tells her about the note is that it says that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That could have been it. They could have had a conversation before the 911 call that she just didn't recall. She could have quickly seen the SBTC at the end.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just giving all angles here. Uh, but interestingly,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A 911 call came in three days before this from the Ramsey household.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was at 6.48pm on December 23rd and the operator answered and no one said anything then hung up the phone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Police were dispatched to the home, but no report was made.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two police officers responded to the scene that morning, like of the actual 911 call, within three minutes of that call. One was officer Rick French. Now according to Foreign Faction by James Collar, which is a really great book about this case,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to the book, the police officer said that John Ramsey was wearing a pinstripe button-up in khakis.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Patsy was wearing black slacks, a red sweater and her hair and makeup were done. Oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know everyone handles things differently, but I could not get dressed or do makeup when my six year old was supposedly kidnapped from her bedroom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That she woke up, she brushed her teeth. Maybe she just didn't say that she did her full routine before walking down the stairs. And that is a possibility.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just to, you know. The whole point of this is to give both sides and let you guys decide for yourselves what your theory is, because again, we don't know. We don't have a definitive answer here. Uhm, but, strange.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, and maybe that it wasn't even for the police. Maybe this is just, she's a pageant gal. She gets up early, she gets her full shit done, and she doesn't walk down the stairs before she looks A+.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's weird. So there's that. Uh, but, and so, and they noted that that was, that was strange. Absolutely. That was strange to the police officers. Now, Patsy told Rick French that she had gone to JonBenet's bedroom and saw that she was not in it as soon as she woke up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we're gonna get back to that in a second. Now Sergeant Paul Reichenbach showed up and ordered that no one use the police frequency just in case the kidnappers were listening on scanners.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That we are here because that is part of the whole thing. So no one used frequencies to talk about this. Uh, they just didn't want to risk JonBenet's safety because at this point this is a kidnapping. So they searched around the home but they didn't find anything suspicious or any signs of forced entry anywhere. And everybody claimed


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We locked all the doors. Everything was locked and John Ramsey said that we locked everything. It was all locked last night. Nothing was unlocked when they came in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, Officer Rick French went into the basement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then he came out later and said, well, this was a kidnapping. We didn't think she was in the home. And it's like, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The problem is you're going in with preconceived ideas, like you're supposed to let the scene speak to you, not you speak for the scene. Right. And a forensic team arrived and we're starting to like do the sweep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're assuming she was taking from her bedroom, sure. Absolutely. Logical.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The person had to walk through the house, which means there's tons of evidence that can be taken. Had to stand in that kitchen and write that note. Had to walk over to the staircase and put them there. And then walk somewhere else to get out. And you don't know how they got out because there's no signs of forced entry or exit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you should be treating this entire house as a crime scene cause you have no fucking clue how they got in or how they got that kid out. Right. Why the fuck would you only be looking at that bedroom? Right. You should be getting these people out of that fucking house and you should be


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Coordinating off this entire place. Wake that nine year old up, get him out of his fucking bedroom, get out of the house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It doesn't make any sense to me, this thought. And they're like, well, you know, no, that doesn't make any sense. That's botched as fuck. Now, this was the only murder in Boulder during this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they were very unequipped. It's not like they were very used to handling this, but at the same time, use all your skills.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's wild. In this like area at that time. So they were, yeaah, they were very unequipped.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But in 2015, uhm, in 2015 they spoke with the same cop that they talked to before in 2015, Bechner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Five months before they interviewed the Ramses after that day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why would you not just pull the parents apart? There's two officers there at least at this point. Right. Pull them apart and say, what happened? Right. What happened this morning? And just take their quick statements. Of course. But no, they sat in front of both of them and were like, okay, what happened?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the rest of the house was just open season. No evidence protection, no nothing for the rest of the house. People just freely walking in and around, bringing things in and out. In fact, the Ramsey's best friends, the Whites and the Fernies showed up because they had called them their minister, uhm, and other family members showed up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In fact, Priscilla White started cleaning the fucking kitchen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is beyond my fucking comprehension. If I walked into my friend's home,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And also, I'd be too scared that I'd be fucking something up. This is an active crime scene, no matter what. There's police around here. Why the fuck are you cleaning the kitchen?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's just me. That's just beyond my comprehension. That is just not a move I would make coming into a friend's house. That's a crime scene right now, but like that's just me. And what is wild to me, even more wild to me, is that when Patsy called the whites and the Fernies right after the 911 call,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they showed up, and she was like, Jean Benet's missing, and they were like, what the fuck? Like, they were like, that's the emergency? Like, you just need us to, like, what? Like, why didn't you tell them that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So wild. Now bar, uhm, so Barb, uh, Barb Fernie, one of the family friends called to the home, talked to Patsy and she asked her what happened when she found the ransom note.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Patsy told her that she quote, just handed the note to John first.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But later, Patsy would tell police that she had screamed for John when she found the note.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's in the morning. It's not like this is the middle of the night, this is the morning. Barb Fernie was like, why the fuck is this kid still asleep?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thank you. That is part of something I don't understand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is, that's exactly how I would feel. I would be...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is no fucking way my kid would be in their bedroom by themselves. How the fuck do you know that that window isn't how they're gonna get in? How do you know they're not hiding in his closet right now under his bed?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would be literally like headlocking my child to me. Like they would be, nobody would be taking that kid away. So the fact that everything's going on and they don't even know what the fuck is happening with Burke in his bedroom?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's bizarre. It's just a bizarre thing. It really, like, no one seemed concerned that the kidnapper was still in the house or how they got into the house and could they get back in. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, how do you know that kid's safe? Like that's just so weird. I don't understand that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But again, remember they were supposed to make arrangements to get the money to pay the ransom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The kidnapper was going to call between 8 and 10. It was a window.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So 8am, Detective Linda Arndt arrived at the scene. Patsy told Detective Arndt that she had gone downstairs, found the ransom note, and then ran upstairs and found Jambonet missing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they were ready to, and again, that is something that can be, I'm hysterical, I don't remember what happened. Yep. But not the same.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they were ready to do the ransom exchange at the time given by the note.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're sitting there. They have the, the phones are ready. They're tapped. They have like the whole thing set up in like a solarium, like a little sunroom. They're ready for this call.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 8 to 10, they gotta sit there, they wanna make sure that it's tapped so they can trace it, all that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The eight, eight o'clock comes around, nothing happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By 10, the deadline had passed for the money to be transferred. The ransom, the ransom note writer never called. And Detective Aren't said that literally no one in the family noticed that the deadline came and went. No one asked about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I would think. Now James Ram, James, John Ramsey also left the room that had the tapped phone in it three different times. And when it rang for something unrelated during the timeframe, like someone else called, he had to run back in the room to answer it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, wouldn't you just be locked to that being, just waiting for it? So you could grab it immediately?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that is something I can understand too. Like, that it's too much. And they did say that he was like, totally just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Panic stricken. Like he was pacing around, he couldn't sit still, he was like very, he wasn't just sitting there like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that could absolutely be part of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Officer, uh, Officer French made a sweep through the house. Fleet White made his first, like, he made a sweep through the house, he didn't find anything. Fleet White went down to the basement for the first time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. I just want to point that out. They're just like, yeah, go down to the basement. And he said later fleet white said he quote, observed the window to be closed, but unlatched and left it in that condition. So there was an unlatched window down in the basement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to Foreign Faction, Fleet White is the only one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who while walking around searching, cause people were searching for her, including John Ramsey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's the only one who called out JonBenet's name while searching for her. No one else did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he was, and he was like that, cause I guess his daughter, Fleet White, he had a daughter around JonBenet's age, and he said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said he didn't touch it, but he said he saw the wine cellar door with the wooden latch on it. And he said he opened that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said he looked in, but it was pitch black. And so he said he was looking for a light and he said he actually stepped into the wine cellar and was like feeling around. And he said, I look through the darkness and I didn't see anything. I couldn't see a form.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, John Ramsey gave, uh, at this point the police had John and Patsy give handwriting samples right away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because they wanted to pass them off. And, uh, Detective Jeff Kithhart, who was the handwriting and fraud expert, he was the one who said later, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a little strange. He was the one that found the practice at this point. He found the practice ransom note and he said, whoever had written the ransom note clearly had started it a few times in that notebook, which is very strange. Now 10 AM came again. The call didn't come. So John went down to the basement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, why is this happening? Why are we allowing people to just keep searching? Like civilians. Why are we allowing this without a police officer with them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] While he was down there, he found, he mentioned that there was a broken window.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause that's like a big deal man. It's a big security issue. Now he closed the window when he went down there and just went back upstairs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then later in a crime scene video, you can see that the middle window down there is open again. And this is after John Ramsay said he latched it closed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just, it's a strange inconsistency. That's weird. With all of it. Now at some point during the day, Fleet White drove Burke to his home, they woke Burke up, drove Burke to Fleet's home to stay with his family during the chaos. They wanted to get him out of the scene.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because they were like, who knows what's gonna happen here, you need to get out of here. So around 1pm, Detective Aren't asked John Ramsey and Fleet White, who had come back at this point, uhm, to search the house for anything that seemed to miss. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At first I was like, what? Why are you asking two civilian men to search the house? Like, why are you asking them to? You're a detective.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that was probably a regrettable decision on their part. Uhm, also she told him and White to search the house from quote top to bottom and he went straight for the basement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're already on the top, you're already in the middle floor, so you might as well just go to the top and end at the bottom I would think, but that's me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they started in the basement to work their way up and this was both of their second trips down to the basement at this point. Now again, the first trips where they went solo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When they went down together, Fleet saw the broken part of the window and he was like, oh, I didn't notice that the first time. Like, there's a broken window. And Ramsey was like, oh, I was locked out. I broke it. And he was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You should tell people. That's how somebody could have gotten in. That's pretty like, what the fuck? And he was like, oh yeaah, it's fine. And he said, now,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is weird too, because later, I guess police said it was not clear from either of the men's later interviews with the authorities whether they had opened the middle window. So it's weird that it was in the crime scene photo, it's open.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is when he found his daughter, Jean Benet, was lying on the ground with a white blanket over her torso. Her hands or arms were over her head. This is really rough, by the way, guys. There was a nylon cord around them, her wrists and her neck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, it was so like indented. It was pulled with a garrote made from a broken paintbrush handle, later found to be taken from Patsy's paint kit, which was outside of the wine cellar doorway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause uhm, John had turned on the light. So Fleet now saw what was in front of him. He took off running upstairs, yelling for someone to call an ambulance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] John Ramsey immediately pulled the tape off of Jean Benet's mouth and untied some of the cords on her wrist. I get this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I need to get this shit off my baby. Like these cords around her wrists and this thing, like, yeah, I get it. Now Fleet White later said he searched that room before this, he mentioned to them, he's like, I actually looked there, and he said that he swore that John yelled, oh my god, before turning on the light.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said, I stepped into that room a bit to try to find that light and I didn't see anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Later investigators did a test on this room to see if they could see. None of them could see the blanket in the dark.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] John Ramsey picked Jean Benet up and ran with her screaming up the stairs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now Priscilla White was with Patsy in the sun room when this occurred. She heard John and left the room to see what happened, but Patsy didn't follow her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause you're wondering, have they found JonBenet or did something happen to Jon? Did he have a heart attack down there? Do we need an ambulance because he's having a heart attack? Like I would be like, she didn't move. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So once John had come upstairs, he placed JonBenet down on the ground in the hallway and kept saying, according to everybody around them, he kept saying over and over, my angel, which like breaks my heart. Of course. And then strangely, Detective Art picked JonBenet up and moved her again, placing her at the bottom of the Christmas tree. That's funny.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why did any of this happen? I do not know. Once she was moved there, a blanket was placed on top of her and also a Colorado Avalanche T-shirt, a sweatshirt was placed over where her feet were to cover them. Like family members were doing that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is so bad for a crime scene, like this has been so fucking contaminated. You should have just left her where John had put her. I know it's hard, I know you're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You gotta leave what's happening here so that they can collect what they can. Patsy was brought in to the room, unable to walk herself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were holding her up and she threw herself on top of JonBenet and just sobbed. Okay. And she was screaming like, um, Lazarus you raised.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever, and like, please raise my baby from the dead. Like, screaming. And her, like, the minister was there, obviously, and they're very religious, so it makes sense. But she was, like, inconsolable. Now, according to the Foreign Faction book, Father Holverstack, the pastor, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it is one person. I'll just tell you that it's one person. Father Holverstock. Uhm, he remembered John Ramsey saying something like, quote, I don't think he meant to kill her because she wrapped, she's wrapped in a blanket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I don't know if, like he mentioned, he just mentioned that to police that he heard that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She has duct tape over her mouth and cord on her wrists that you pulled off. Right. Why are you giving them anything? Any kind of?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Humanity. At all. I would never be like, these people didn't mean to kill her, ideally these people are fucking monsters and I'm gonna hunt them down myself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Fleet White then went back downstairs to the wine cellar. Again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a crime scene. He was, she was just found in the wine cellar. That's actually the crimiest of all crime scenes. That's the place that we are looking at right now. Right. He went back down by himself where she was found. He collected the duct tape, cord and blanket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is a crime scene photo after this point that shows the middle window downstairs wide open at this point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The detectives for allowing this to happen, you know? It's very strange. Now the window is also a strange thing. There's no sign of disturbance on the window pane. There was dust, dirt, and even cobwebs, like spiderwebs, that have remained undisturbed. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, so that's strange. They searched the basement, they found the paintbrush, brush garotte. They also found the broken window and the suitcase on the ground. There were some markings around the window like scuff marks, but again, no disturbances on the windowsill itself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's what they assumed that those were just from him. And the reason there was no disturbance on the windowsill was it was weeks earlier that he had done that. So dust had collected and that cobweb had formed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, at, uhm, around 1.30pm, detective, uhm, aren't, or no, excuse me, uhm, one of the detectives, I believe it was, uhm, Detective French, actually, heard John Ramsey on the phone. This is after Jean Benet has been brought upstairs. Everything has been found.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's on the phone, heard by detectives, booking a plane trip to Atlanta. For him, Pat Seenberg.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The detective then informed him, you cannot leave the city or state anything. And he said, I have a meeting that I can't miss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your six year old was murdered in your fucking house. You can't leave. And it's weird that I have to tell you that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is the excuse of all excuses to call out of work. Like- Yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's beyond. Like that, I understand that like some people go into like, just, I gotta, I gotta truck, yea, like autopilot, that. You're booking a private plane out of here? As soon as your kid was found?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What the fuck? Like, what are you doing? That's weird. Like, that's weird. No matter how you slice it, that's weird. So, Patsy and John provided hair and blood samples right away. And they, along with Burke, were spoken to briefly by police after this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the medical examiner John Meyer didn't get there until 8pm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow. Why? Don't know. His report states that he found her in the living room with a blanket and that sweatshirt on top of her. The autopsy was performed the next morning. The time of death was stated between, to be between 10 and 10 PM the night before and 6 AM that morning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now it's believed this is probably closer to the 10pm hour because decomposition had begun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Several injuries could have caused death. Strangulation in the skull fracture killed Jambonet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The official cause of death was listed as asphyxia by strangulation associated with cranocerebral trauma.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there was questions related to whether she had been sexually assaulted in some way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Blood was found in her underwear that she was wearing. Like just tiny little, like pinpoints of it, but still there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Closer inspection revealed that Jambonet had marks on her back and neck that looked like they could have possibly been made with the prongs of a stun gun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, it was noted several times that the cords around her wrist were very loosely tied. Uhm, in fact, they didn't even make marks on her skin. That's how loose they were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now a bruise on the front of her throat was also really strange. It's slightly triangular and the size is about a quarter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's all these sources that say that they believe it's, uhm, that like analysts have said that they believe it was like her shirt was caught up in the garrot and it pressed into, it had like knotted. Okay. And pressed into her skin and just caused that. Okay. Sure. I could see that. Like we'll say, but it wasn't caught in it when they found it. So that was interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now they also found, according to the official report, and this really broke my heart, a red ink draw- line drawing in the form of a heart located on the palm of her left hand. Like a little kid just drawing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What they discovered through this autopsy was that she had been, and this is rough, just trigger warning sexual assault.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She had likely been sexually assaulted with a paintbrush handle at the time or after death. They also found evidence that she could have possibly been sexually assaulted more times before that night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like 30 something times in the past like three years or something like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that they never questioned or were worried about that. But, who knows?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the chords were very interesting for other reasons too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The cord that was wrapped around the homemade garrote and then around her neck was from a new roll of cord. It was white cord. They knew this because you know how a new cord or rope will have like a melted end? Almost like there's like glue on the end or something. Like it's a very like smooth end. Yeah. That's what was on the garrote.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the rest of the cords on her wrist were frayed and clearly cut, like roughly cut. So this led them to believe that the garotte was made first. And then the cords were tied around her wrist, which would make it staged.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because it would also explain why those were so loose, because there was no reason for them to be tight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly. So it doesn't really, that's all staged. Now there was mucus that had come from Jambonais' nose.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That will happen during strangulation and down her face and lips, like it had, it had gone down. This happens during death, especially strangulation and a blunt force trauma to the head. They noted that the outlines of the duct tape were on top of the mucus trail.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Meaning the duct tape was placed on her mouth when she was at the very least unconscious, but more likely when she was dead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the mucus was under the tape. Right. So that had already happened. Right, like she'd already been strangled.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was also an imprint, according to Foreign Faction, that was very clear on the sticky side of the tape, and the imprint was JonBenet's lips. But they were perfect. It wasn't smeared, it wasn't just-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which, which says staged. There's no reason for that to be on there. But there was DNA evidence found in her underwear. And on her waistband.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're going to talk about that more in part two. But at this time, after the autopsy, the Ramses went to Georgia and refused to speak to the police.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was after all the autopsy was done and everything and they were allowed to. They went to Georgia just to get away from I think the house, which again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, uhm, again, Boulder Police Chief Tom Coby told the public at this point that there was no threat to them, no threat to the public and that this was an isolated incident.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A kid was just murdered in her house. And we don't know who did it. And everybody in the neighborhood was like, we're fucking terrified. Of course. Like we were terrified. Like somebody had broken into their house and killed their kid in the middle of the night. And you're telling us there's no threat? What does that mean? You gotta explain that, man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, we are going to end part one here. Uhm, I'm sure people are like, what about the pineapple? Don't worry, we're gonna talk about the pineapple in part two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're gonna talk about the pineapple, which I'm sure some of you might know about, some of you are probably like, what the fuck are you talking about, the pineapple? It's a big deal. It's huge. Uhm, we're gonna talk about the flashlight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're gonna talk about the suspects and we're gonna talk about the theories. Alright. In part two. But that is part one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Jean-Benet Ramsey, hopefully this time around it's a more, I wanted to make it a more cohesive and easy to follow narrative than before, I thought I jumped around too much last time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thank you. I think you've growth. I think you've growth. Um, but yeah, this is a rough one. Part two, we're really going to get into the nitty gritty of all the theories and suspects and that, that pineapple thing is a real interesting bone of contention for a lot of people as is the flashlight. So, but we're not going to do is get sued.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's true. I have those. You forgot like one pretty, one significant present. Diesel present. Yeah. And then...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another one is coming after Christmas and I'm so TO'd because uhm, it's Drew's big present, so Seth Rogen, I have a bone to pick with you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably people that suck, I guess. I mean, there's people who hate everybody, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not in the way back machine, but we're, we're going back to the early aughts. We're going to ashtastic early aughts. Hell yea, hell yea. On February 12th, 2007. 2007. I was going to say 2007, but that sounded weird.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that's where our story begins, and on that day, a frantic Toronto caller was on the phone with 911 begging for help.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The man on the line was 35 year old Christopher Little and he was explaining to the dispatcher that there was a dead woman hanging from the rafters in his garage. Oh my god. And he had no idea who this woman was. What? And then as he walked into his home things only got worse.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He immediately assumed that whoever the stranger was, hanging in the garage, had done this to his wife and then done that to herself afterwards. And he explained that theory when police arrived on scene.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, what a, I, arriving home to find a stranger hanging in your garage. Can you, don't imagine that. I cannot. Like what? That's, you would see that on TV, like on a crazy TV show and be like, that's, that would never happen. That's too much. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was an unbelievable scene to walk into for any party, but once investigators did, they immediately had questions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] While Chris Little was convinced he knew what happened, trained investigators felt that there was something off here. Not only with his story, but also with the crime scene. Because the first thing that raised eyebrows on scene was the fact that Chris had no idea who this woman was. That seemed very likely. Yeah. Excuse me, it seemed very unlikely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the way she was found also raised some eyebrows because the woman was discovered not only with a rope around her neck, but around her ankles as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Huh. That's pretty unusual in a typical case of suicide. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then they found out that the relationship between the two dead women, women, excuse me, and Chris Little


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And investigators were pretty sure that this man who had quote unquote stumbled upon this scene and called 911, he was their killer, they thought.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now let's get back to the 911 call. It came in from 95 Larkin Avenue in Markham at 325 AM, again on February 12, 2007. And the York Regional Police and Paramedics were on the scene within seven minutes. They were ready to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] First on the scene was constable Michael Mulville, and when he arrived he discovered the body of Paula Menendez in the garage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he checked for a pulse, there was none to be found. And as he continued searching through the garage in the exterior of the home, his partner, Constable Stephanie Hunter, was inside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hunter immediately found Christopher Little standing at the top of the stairs, still actually on the phone with 911.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But once he saw that the police had arrived, he hung up with the dispatcher and led Constable Stephanie Hunter to the bed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bedroom, excuse me, where 33 year old Julie Crocker was. He told the officer that he had actually moved Julie from the bed to the floor and had attempted CPR at the 911 dispatcher's request.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when he got home, she was actually on the bed when he discovered her, and then he moved her to the floor to do CPR. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He also let this officer know that their two young daughters were home and had been during the murder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Murders. Oh my god. Luckily the children were taken from the home quickly before they were able to see anything. It doesn't appear that they woke up at any time during this. Do you know how old they were?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Chris told them that he and his wife were actually in the process of getting divorced. Red flag number one! Oh yea. And that they were sharing the home where she'd been discovered.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He arrived home just before 3.30 that morning and immediately discovered Paula, though again, he said, he said he did not know this woman by name.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said that once he found her, he cut her down in an attempt to revive her, and that was why she was laid in the backseat when police arrived. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he was unable to revive her he said he ran inside and found his wife, called 911, attempted CPR as he was instructed to do so, and they knew the rest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When asked again if he was sure that he did not know who this woman in the garage was, he told the investigators no he did not. The story


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're immediately like, oh, let me tend to this woman who I don't know, who I don't know why she's here and what's going on. But my wife and children are in the house. And let me not check on them, but take care of this first. Yeah. I'm sorry, that's not gonna be your first instinct. That wouldn't be my first instinct, I can tell you that. I don't think that would be many people's first instinct. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But according to the Canadian Criminal Code, investigators had to obtain a warrant before they searched the house and carried out a forensic analysis on the victims. So while they waited, they set up a command post nearby and they continued questioning Chris.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] While the other person stayed at an apartment or in Julie's case possibly with her boyfriend Rick. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now once they obtained the search warrant to search Chris and Julie's home, they found out the identity of the woman in the garage officially, 34 year old Paula Menendez. They would soon learn that she was actually somewhat connected to Julie and Chris.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Paula, and this is a little convoluted, so Paula was the ex-wife.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of Julie Crocker's new boyfriend, Rick Ralph. Okay. Got it? Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, was what Chris was saying true? Had Paula in some kind of fit of rage or jealousy broke into Julie and Chris' home to exact her revenge on Julie? And then because she was so distraught ended her own life in the garage?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably not. Police had seen crazier scenarios play out, but still, something about this situation was telling them instinctually to look harder into Chris. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I guess I could see that being the case they were thinking, but something about it was just too messy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's like you can sit there and say, yeah, like that is a, that scenario has played out probably billions of times. Yeah, in some way, shape or form. In some kind of way, some kind of roundabout way, but like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even just listening to that scene from over here, I'm like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know about that. Yeaah. Just his reactions are bothering me. They're strange. Yeaah. They will only get stranger. Oh good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the more and more they learned about the victims as the morning went on, because this is literally all happening within the day that these two bodies are found.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With HelloFresh, you get farm-fresh pre-portion ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Skip those trips to the grocery store, you know that none of us are doing that anymore, and count on HelloFresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. Which is why it's America's number one meal kit. Let's talk about the new year, guys. I know that you have new goals, and HelloFresh is here, they're holding your hand, and they're gonna help you achieve those goals. Don't go to the grocery store, take control of your time, take control of your budget, and do so with delicious recipes that are literally


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doorstep. If you're looking for an easy way to eat well and also save money this year, you can cut back on expensive takeout and delivery and just get started with HelloFresh. You're gonna love how fast, easy, and affordable it is to whip up a restaurant quality meal right in your own kitchen. The other day I got mine delivered and I was like, woohoo, new year, new me, just kidding. Still cooking this HelloFresh because that's how much I love it. Me and Drew the other night made the winner winner chicken orzo dinner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] First of all, that's kind of like a pun, so it speaks to my soul. And second of all, it melted in your GD mouth. I'm a sucker for orzo. And it had a zucchini tomato medley on the side that was melt in your mouth delicious. And oh, so easy to prepare. I love that they lay out the steps one by one for you. There's literally no way to get confused. Go to hellofresh.com slash morbid21 and use code morbid21 for 21 free meals plus free shipping. Again, that's hellofresh.com slash morbid21 and use code morbid21


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's be honest, when you're at your best, you can do great things, but also let's be honest. Sometimes life gets you bogged down and you might start to feel overwhelmed or like you're just not showing up in the ways that you want to, but you know what can help?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Working with a therapist. It'll help get you closer to the best version of yourself. Because when you feel empowered, you're more prepared to take on everything life throws at you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I feel better. I feel like I'm like, yes, I can do this. So if you're thinking of giving therapy a try, BetterHelp is a great option. It's convenient, flexible, affordable, and entirely online.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're learning more and more, interviewing more and more, and the more validated they started to feel in their suspicions of Chris as the day went on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Though Paula and Rick had ended their marriage, they learned that things ended pretty amicably, and it was actually Paula who had initiated the divorce months earlier. Oh wow. She wasn't happy that things had ended how they had, but she knew that it was the right decision for the both of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Julie and Chris had also ended their marriage a few months before, and Chris was telling the detectives that their split was also amicable, but the police weren't so sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why would she tie her own feet together before hanging herself?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and that would make it hard. And more importantly, why wasn't she covered in blood if she had just cut a woman's throat? Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was not a single drop of blood found on Paula. Not a single drop. Three, one of the weirdest aspects of all of this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What was Chris Little doing at his estranged wife's home at 3 o'clock in the morning? If it was her time to be at the house, what the hell was he doing there at witching hour?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Why was he there? That's possibly the best point. Why the hell were you just showing up? He's the one sitting there saying like, we split our time with the kids and share the house. You arrived at three o'clock in the morning and we'll get into later what he says he was doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His explanation, I'm not even gonna tell it to you right now, I gotta wait until we get there, makes no fucking sense. Yeah, I bet it doesn't. And that whole entire morning, the way that he tries to reason it out, I'm like, you're cooked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Since both girls were home, one would think that they would have woken up from hearing some kind of a struggle and would have gone to their father when he got home, or that when he arrived he would have checked on them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just, I would have, the first thing I would have done is check on the kids. Absolutely. That would have been the first thought. If something is awry in your home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would she not also exact that revenge with your children? Maybe. But like, you gotta go check on them. Yeah, you gotta go find out. Well, we know neither of those things happened because everything that happened in the house from the time Chris called 911 is recorded. Everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything. You can hear the dog barking. You can hear Officer Hunter's arrival. You can hear the paramedics discussing Julie's state.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not once did a child wake up and not once was a child checked on until the officers got there and did it themselves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So with all that being said, the primary theory in detective's minds was that Chris Little had kidnapped Paula and brought her back to he and Julie's home where he then killed both women and staged the scene to make it look like a murder-suicide.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Holy shit. How fucking bonkers. That's so complex. And the thought was that he was so enraged about his wife moving on to Rick Ralph that he was taking both women from Rick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jesus. Mhm. And the theory was only supported by the fact that there was a crumpled up photo of Julie and Rick found next to Julie's body. What?! Mhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it also goes, it plays right into like he staged this. Oh, of course. Cause that's fucking ridiculous. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was a secondary theory that Chris had intended to actually kill Rick and had gone to his home to kill him, but didn't realize that Rick didn't live there anymore. And when he found Paula, he just kinda like switched gears. Wow. I lean more toward the first theory.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, honestly, I lean more towards that too. I think this was his plan all along, was to get Paula and make it look like she had done this. That's what I think. I don't think, I think he was trying to hurt Rick, and I think he was trying to hurt these two women. Yeah, cause I think it was his perfect scenario, which is, like you said, hurt Rick.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But also make it so that it's a totally outside scenario from him. And again, like you said, everybody loses. Exactly. So either way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The very same day that Chris called 911 and everything had been discovered, detectives were actually able to get a warrant for his arrest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that afternoon he was arrested on two counts of first degree murder. Wow, I bet he never saw that coming so quickly. Sure didn't. Thought he had wrapped all that up. Yeah, he hadn't at all. No. And just wait until you hear the shit that was found. Oh boy. I mean the fact that Paula didn't have any blood on her at all, how did you think?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you not think that through? I mean, I'm glad you didn't, but. This is just such a wild...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And as Chris was being arrested outside of the home, neighbors actually stood by watching in shock. And according to a Globe and Mail article, quote, one resident was overheard telling a neighbor, I moved from Scarborough to get away from this crap. Oof.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now before we get into the rest of the nitty gritty, I did obviously want to touch on both victims' lives before they were taken by this abominable man. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Chris and Julie had been married for ten years before this. Oh my god. And had actually pretty much known each other their entire lives because they both grew up in Markham, which is a city in Ontario, we're in Canada.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Chris had grown up on a dairy farm and his father Barry actually used that farm to operate his small dairy business.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Julie Crocker also grew up in a close-knit family. She was one of three children to parents Judy and Jim, and she was super close with her two sisters Stephanie and Jill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Julie had started dating Chris in high school. They were both students at Markham District High.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when they both graduated, Julie went off to the University of Western Ontario, but they actually stayed a couple while she was at college and made things work long distance.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When she was finished with college, she and Chris married in 1997, and for a while they both just wanted to separate, uh, focus on their separate careers. Julie got a job in 2002 with Rogers Media, which was a Toronto based sports media and brand consultancy, and she worked in ad sales.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One year later in 2003, she became a mom and the couple became parents to their first daughter, and a year later they would have a second daughter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In addition to all of that, Julie and Chris were also very involved volunteers for the Markham Fair, which used to be organized by Chris's father Barry. So this has like such a small town feel to it. It really does. It's one of the country's oldest fairs actually, and Julie was so dedicated to everything she could do for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone remembered her in every aspect of life as, quote, a devoted, diligent, and hardworking team player who touched so many lives in so many ways. They said whether it was getting through school, raising her two children, or the volunteer work she did, she gave everything her all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Paula Menendez was also from Markham and had grown up there. She'd actually originally been born in Argentina and had a twin sister, Carolina, as well as an older sister, Claudia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Their parents were Monica and Jamie Menendez, and their family was also incredibly close.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Monica and Jamie actually wanted to move their family to Canada while the kids were still so young to escape the violence going on in Argentina, which only makes this case all the more tragic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Paula and Julie had drive as a commonality. After Paula graduated from college, she got a job as a physiotherapist and went on to work for Pivot Physiotherapy Clinic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now it was in 2003 that Paula got married and she met and got married to Rick Ralph, but their relationship had issues from that jump.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After just two months of being married, they were already growing apart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The affair went on for years and by 2005, Paula and Rick were in couples therapy, desperately trying to make things work and doing their best to save their marriage. Oh boy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It took about a year of trying, but they really weren't making much headway and things weren't in a desirable place. So a heartbroken Paula suggested that they separate and by the fall of 2006, they were officially divorced.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was really sad about it, and he was too, but for her it was like, he was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the divorce hit Paula harder than she actually thought it would. Her dream in life was to get married, start her own family, and open her own physiotherapy business. And now in some ways, she was back to square one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She got a butterfly that was supposed to signify her new beginning and how strong and resilient she was. Metamorphosis. Just like a butterfly. I love that. Now you have Hillary Duff songs stuck in my head. There you go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now heading back into the investigation, this shit's gonna get wilder and wilder as we go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As the pathologist examined Paula's body, it was clear that she had not taken her own life as Chris Little intended to make it look.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dr. Toby Rose listed Paula's cause of death as ligature strangulation, meaning somebody else had placed the rope around her neck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In his report, Dr. Rose noted that the position of the ligature mark on Paula's neck suggested that she'd been strangled, saying quote,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the gravity pulls you down. Exactly. Which was where the mark on Paula was found, straight across her voice box. Yea, that literally, like physics doesn't make sense there. Exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very clearly been killed before she was hanged from those rafters, which is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So dark. So dark. And there were a multitude of bruises on her body, all over her hands and wrists, the back of her legs and thighs, suggesting that she'd been handled quite aggressively. Dr. Rose's conclusion was that she'd been murdered, and the scene was staged.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was no question, obviously, as to how Julie Crocker died, but the pathologist still had to carry out an examination of her body too. It's just...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dr. Rose said the cut was so deep that there was quote, really only skin left uncut at the back of the neck. She was nearly decapitated. Like he literally just didn't get the skin in the back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like a hunting knife. Jagged knife. My god. And in addition to her throat being slashed, there were also superficial wounds to the left side of her face and defensive sharp force injuries to her face, to her neck and to her hands. My god. This was brutal for both women.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When the forensic technicians processed the crime scene, there was not much evidence found within the home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The detectives knew by this point that the scene had been staged, but actually the lack of blood evidence outside of the bedroom where Julie had been discovered only proved their point more. So it's kind of beneficial that there wasn't blood everywhere. Absolutely. And it's like he lives in this house part time. Exactly. So it's like, it would be hard. And has for years and years and years. He knows this place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just happen to look up pictures of them because I like to see who- Beautiful. Beautiful, and there's a picture of them on their wedding day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm just looking at it and I'm like, how does that, how does that go from that to that? My brain can't compute this kind of stuff where like you marry someone and then this hat like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Never. Never. I think about that so much more now, especially like planning a wedding because so much love goes into that. That's the thing. Excitement and preparation and you stand before that person and choose them forever, no matter what. And that's, and then like you have babies together. Yeah. And this like, and this isn't like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Crime of passion, which is just a scary like planned. And this is like brutal, almost decapitation. Like this is, how do you do that to someone that you love? Oh, he did. I don't understand that. He did terrible things to this woman, even in life. Oh good. Terrible, terrible things. He was not a husband. No, I mean, not a husband at all. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's ridiculous, but the lack of blood in this case was helpful because had Paula been the one to murder Julie that savagely, like I was saying earlier, and then gone out to the garage, one would assume that there would be at least a little bit of blood on the path out to the garage and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like I said, she was not covered in blood, and there was no blood evidence found in the garage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The only blood evidence outside of the bedroom came from handprints that were left by Chris after he'd attempted CPR. Yea, none of that makes sense. No, it makes no sense. Now luckily, inside of the garage there was some evidence left behind by the killer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There were fragments of the rope used to hang Paula still left on the rafters and on the floor near where her body was there was a pair of black gloves next to a knife which was the one used to kill Julie. Remember those black gloves. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was more what they didn't find that helped the investigators. Chris was trying to say Paula had killed his wife in a jealous rage, but she didn't even look like she'd left her house intentionally or with any kind of plan. She actually looked like she'd left her home unexpectedly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was found wearing track pants, a hoodie, and boots, and a scarf, but no underwear. And she also had none of her personal belongings with her. No wallet, no keys, no cellphone, not even her car. So how did she get there? Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not even her car, I say to you again. They're trying, he's seriously trying to pass this off. How did she get there? With that major, major flaw. She didn't bring her keys, her wallet, her cell phone, nothing. Yeah. Nothing. That makes sense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But unfortunately over at Paula's apartment, there really wasn't much evidence to find. There were no footprints, no tire tracks that they could have tested against Chris Little.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there was really nothing in her home to indicate a struggle, which is interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] However, there was evidence to suggest that somebody had left in a hurry, it seemed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How creepy is that? Oh, that's so creepy. Was he, I don't know if Chris was planning on


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doing something else with her car and then like forgot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow, that's weird. Weird as hell. Yeah, like what was the thought process there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if it was like he realized that it didn't make sense and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So throughout the search of Paula's home, investigators also found her diary, which contradicted Chris's theory that she was an enraged, jealous lover. I'm not gonna read directly from it, there are quotes out there, but I don't want to read directly from somebody's diary if that feels weird. Yeah, I feel that. But the diary painted a picture of a woman who was reacting completely appropriately to the end of a relationship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In early October, Paula wrote about losing Rick and how hard that was. In the following weeks though, the entry, or in the following weeks, the entries were similar. But however, by January, which was about four months after they split up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She seemed hopeful and she wrote that there were of course moments of sadness, but that she was starting to feel better and really didn't have the same longing that she had. Yeah. And it's like very normal going through it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is her diary. If she's jealous, she's gonna write about Julie Crocker. She's gonna write how pissed off she is. She's gonna write, fuck this woman, like all this stuff. Of course she is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not one entry sound like that at all. And it's like, this is just normal, like I'm going through it and here's my thoughts and here's the grief process. Yeah, exactly. I'm feeling better. Exactly. She even wrote about how she'd started dating again. Yeah. Paula was a future oriented person. She wasn't obsessed with the past. No. Even in her most private and personal moments.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She wasn't showing any signs of being jealous and hadn't even mentioned Julie and Rick's relationship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so she's just moving on. Now among some of the more damning evidence found and sent off to the technical, technological crimes unit was Chris Little's work computer. Oh boy. Just two days before Julie and Paula were killed, Chris made a search for Paula's home address on his computer. Hmm, why would you do that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He also looked up photos and saved one of a banner for Paula's home based clinic, All in One Physiotherapy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. These were all found on like the temporary image cache part of the computer for my techies out there. Yeah. Can't delete that shit. Nothing is deleted forever. The cloud exists. I don't even know where it is. Just ask Casey Anthony. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After interviewing Rick, Ralph, and friends connected to each victim, investigators learned that Chris Little had been testing Julie's clothes for semen using a, it's called a checkmate infidelity kit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you fucking kidding me? No, I'm for real. Evidence was found from the kit in the basement of Julie and Chris's home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And along with it, this is a trigger warning for sexual assault.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They found, quote, a wireless pinhole camera and a digital video that showed Mr. Little apparently sexually assaulting an unconscious Julie Crocker.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What? He was sexually assaulting his wife and had at least one video of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She's unconscious in the video. And this is like well before the murders? Yup. Like just in their lives this is what he's doing? Yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of the basement, like hidden away. Oh my god, this guy's a fucking monster. Have you seen him? Yeah. He looks like a monster. He does look like a monster. His insides very much reflect on the outside. Ugh. Wild. Oh my god, that's awful.