[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Described as a bit of the Shadow Realm, but let's talk about the other ones. There's Everglow and Big Shadow Realm and there's things from there, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I really like this, so the Crowsward then has the Blackfeather Court, which is led by the Duke of Crows, and they, all of these sort of, they're like Daedra Crows, but I like how there's actually like a living place for the Crows that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That are seeing. So, so I just kind of like that it gives them a bit of a personality because it's very easy to look at all of these Daedra with their like minions and see them as very disconnected. It's like oh, this is just the enemy they send out. But it's the same as we see


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With, you know, Shay Gorath and his, um, you know, certain data and so on, they're kind of inbuilt into the, to the civilization of the Shivering Isles in the same way that here, that even the crows have sort of have like a sentience and, and are built into this sort of little.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nerds, let's, let's, let's, um, so we were just talking about that. Let's talk about the, so there's the crows and the crodager, right? Let's talk about the nocturnal shrikes, which in previous games have just been referred to as lesser or greater nocturnals, but nocturnal shrikes to distinguish them all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ah, these sort of, uh, these Daedru women, they basically look like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Beautiful voices and stuff as well, like singing. I forget which book it was, but there was a, there's a book that sort of mentioned that they just have like these sort of like beautiful voices and stuff as well. But yeah, so they're scantily clad, tall, beautiful women that are actually, um, quite powerful and, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I like the little ad that like, they're prone to bouts of debilitating melancholy. And that's kind of like a, I don't know, it just feels very on theme for Nocturnal. I can imagine, like, just all of a sudden just get hit with a wave of depression. And just like, the depressing Daedra in the shadows. It's like, very emo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but they've served plenty. Like I think, I think, I think it's outside the ones that are kind of her signature ones are the nocturnal shrikes and the, um, and the crows.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeaah. They are, they are interesting bunch. But I don't know if there's all too much to say. There is, I think, uh, a, uh, les- I think it's-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think this is the one where there's a lesbian relationship between one of the earliest examples of an LGBT thing in Elder Scrolls and uhm, it's, I think it's the J.C.L. Morgan chick who is in a relationship with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sweet. And it's also, was it? Sorry, go Michael, you go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See, I just, this is sort of like, kind of like the redeemed, thinking about the redeeming things of Nocturnal, well sorry, the lack of redeeming things, like she's a thief and stuff, but then it's like, oh, here's her gloam knight's embodiments of hate and mystery, and here's-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But let's start talking then about her artifacts because that's some of the most, I think that's what really makes a lot of people besides her double D's, I think, I think it's really is the artifacts that make us so interesting to a lot of people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause you first, it's in, it's in a bruma house. I think it's the first time you meet him in the bottom level. I feel like I can even remember my like cognitive dissonance, like in my head, I was like, Oh, this kind of looks shitty. But then I'm like, Oh no, that's so cool. It's the great box. No, this is cool. This is cool. And I'm like swept up in the like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or of it, but I'm like kind of at the back of my mind still like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, it looks a little different than I thought, like it looks a little different than it does on the posters. Like, you know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it kind of seems to be a thing that applies even if you kind of, like from the second you wear it, because you know how the gray fox took it off and then he's still like the, um, what's it called? He's the, he's the forger guy in Anvil as well. Like he was that the guy that the stranger or whatever the guy. Oh, sorry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. So even without it, he's still, even if he took it off and he's like, no, no, it's me, it still doesn't work because the curse is kind of on you when you put it on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just like, I like those sort of things that it takes on an identity of itself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To be fair, she actually kind of gets a lot of stuff stolen from her. Like the whole Eye of Nocturnal thing, so like the quest in Oblivion where these two Argonians have stolen the Eye of Nocturnal and then hid it in this sort of like little cave basement thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but uhm, yeah, so in Oblivion, you get the Skeleton Key in return for that. You actually get the Skeleton Key pretty easy. In Skyrim, they really like buff it up. They're like, woah, this is, this is, it needs super protection. This is crazy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think so. I think it's sort of done. And I think we talked about it a decent bit in the Daedric Artifacts podcast. So uhm. Okay. So there's the skeleton.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Believe that, like I feel like it just kind of, it's cool to imagine like, if you took the Skyrim one, like the bottom end of it's the same, but the key actually shapes to whatever it's going into as it does, and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, for its origin story, what do you guys think? Do you think created by Nocturnal, or do you think stolen from Azura, as is in the Khajiits?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, it's not necessarily the skeleton key, but it's kind of like, it's heavily insinuated, I think. Yeah. Kind of. At least I think we want to believe that. Nocturnal has a key, where'd she get it? Yeah. Yeah. And associated with, um, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, that's kind of why I like to believe the Khajiit myth one, just because I feel like, A, it's very on brand for nocturnal, like, you know, patron of thieves to, to steal the, the key.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Imagine if that's actually a bit more of a motivation is kind of like a thief. It's kind of, if you imagine a thief sort of obsession, like an ambitious thief that's sort of like, Oh, I want to be able to get into anything and unlock anything that might even be a bit of nocturnal sort of psyche. It's like, I want to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think it's very on brand, the, the Khajiit, sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Khajiit myth, that's what, that's what I buy into. I think it's much more interesting than, oh, she just created it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, that's one of the most like well thought out mythologies they've added for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, we should go back and comment like this aged poorly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I, I don't know, I just know that like, cause early ESO you can, you know, examples with like not putting the Imgur in Veil and Ward and stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you can see where they cut corners in some of those areas because they didn't want to. And if, you know, to a degree, fair enough, you're building this huge thing. You can't allocate heaps of time to every little detail or bit. Like how much is it just to put in, you know, some monkeys and, and Imgur or whatnot. But, um, yeah, it was really good that they did do it for, uh, elsewhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I guess we can talk about, oh, her craziest Daedric artifact at all. The bow of shadows.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, sure. The nightingale sword has a cool design. But like, the nightingale-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I just, uh, yeah, I think it's not a good idea pretty much in any circumstance to really get into. Look, maybe if you're a thief or something, but then I guess my argument would be don't be a thief. Don't worship Nocturnal, I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause like, honestly, she's not, she is not what she's, uh, I don't know, she's a bad, bad person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just don't like her. I think she's one of the people who like her because she's got cleavage and she's got cool artifacts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, see there are, there are some, like, you know, her scene, I was, I was wondering, maybe we should make a video on this, but like the, the most morally like good, I could say like Daedra, some of the more like consistent ones, like, so like her scene is, is very, he's like honorable in that sense. Is he though?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two things. That's not fair. That is not fair and just. But to be fair, he was protecting his own creatures, and the second thing is, he is still a Daedra, as far as Daedra go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But in essence, I think the point of bringing that up anyway is just like Nocturnal is like the opposite example of that. I think there's just too many examples of just kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like even the business transactions just seem kinda unfair, like the whole Nightingale scenario, like I wouldn't take that, or maybe they deem it fair, but I just, and there's just lots of devi- I mean she literally tried to make the entire world her, so I don't really


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, it's the, it's the joke too that like, you, you, the dragonborn belongs to like 15 magic princesses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, or like, I wouldn't want to be a nightingale. I guess on a casual level, but like, I mean, you could even argue, like, even if you were to compare, like, okay, this is a funny one, because Mehran's Dagon is like, you know, the most like typical look and evil kind of thing, but even his like, ideas of like revolution and change and destruction are kind of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Consistent and not necessarily like this sort of, he's like kind of acting out his fear versus egotistically looking after their own things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's uh, I was gonna, I did ask her some questions on YouTube and we can kind of, so from Maeve SW, what relationships does she have with the other Daedric Princes if any? She seems different than most of our pals from Oblivion. Any ideas why? Well,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She does have interactions with Mephila and Clavicus Vile as a little triad, like little


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Little conspiracy to get hold of the Crystal Tower, but uhm, we talked about that, but outside of that, I don't know if there is too much, but maybe if she, you know, stole potentially in Khajiit Myth, she stole the key from...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Azura, but one, just saying so she seems different. And some people kind of point that out and we can kind of talk about the term erdra or erdeidra.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's like er in English to be like, it's like the most primal or original kind of thing. And er-dra just seems like a sort of combined er-de-dra. And cause er-de-dra is specifically used, um, about Hermaeus Mora. And I think there's, the er-dra is used in the Khajiit, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, that's super old, like I wonder if that's, you know, kind of partially gives a bit of her, eh, kind of the obscure sort of mysterious kind of nature of her, of her realm as well, kind of, I guess gives that feeling of like ancient, you're not sure what she wants and then, you know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like that's why she's, though, like, I just, it's just the consistency of the terminology. I just think, like, Hermes Morris kind of gives the vibe that is really, really ancient and so does Namira, but kind of putting Azura and, you know, potentially nocturnal, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The other, another question, this is an interesting one actually, uhm, Zach Kyler. Why are the Twilight Sephulka and Ebonmere portals so important to her influence? Other Daedric gods seem to be powerful enough without a portal to their plane, but Nocturnal needs a super secret crew to guard the portal to the Everglow and closing the portal brings misfortune to her followers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It, my, my first guess would be that it is not so much about like this big influence thing. I think it might be a localized thing, like sort of to the Skyrim area of influence or so on. I feel like, and maybe it's kind of the intensity of influence that can come through versus, uh, elsewhere in the, in the, in Tamriel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I guess it's just sort of talking like they're just the difference of influence though too, like, I don't know if it necessarily is, I feel like it might be played up in the Skyrim thing a little bit. And that's why I was saying it might be localized in terms of, because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, no, like thieves, like the spear just sort of hits everything. I think it's an intensity sort of thing, perhaps. Or poor riding. Yeah, or it just wasn't thought through. Um, bestkill68 says, does she have any connection to, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Shadow Magic, and yeah, she does, like, it's kind of like a natural association by the fact that she is, you know, Queen of Shadows kind of thing, and then she made a Shadow version of Sotha Seel, and sort of, it all plays on the similar idea of, of Shadow Magic that's in the Shadow Key game, that's the sort of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Uhm, Jay Cut says, is she down to smash? Probably not, man. I feel, I feel like she's pretty. It's a trick. Yeah. There's a, there are a lot of questions and like, that are just like, who is hotter in your opinion, Azura or Nocturnal and things of this nature. Uhm, but yeah, there's just lots and lots of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Will Scott talk about Vore in this podcast? Probably not this one. But uhm, I think, I think that pretty much covers the essence of Nocturnal. Uhm, but she's not a good person. Not a good person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. But yeah, there we go. Emo. Big titty goth chick. Dangerous prids. That's it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is up ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Fudge Muppet, I'm Scott and I'm here with Michael and Drew and today we are discussing everything Thalmor, all about that elven supremacist organization, but as we'll get into, they didn't start off as a supremacist organization as such. So who wants to take the reins to start?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like a heritage base, like not just like a museum looking thing, but they would have had like a, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Big uhm, cultural responsibility and probably like, you know, maybe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, maintaining big libraries of their genealogy and bloodlines and stuff like that. But from my understanding, like the First Dominion with Queen Eren and stuff, that sort of was the first time it brought the Thalmor into like a important governmental role. Like sort of, they had, they expanded their, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the blood, but the blood keeper genealogy stuff is so essential to like ultimate society that it would be a high ranking thing. Like it could be interconnected with the monarchy to like the, do you know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I also feel like it's got to be, they're a little bit more palatable than the modern ones for ESO to join the Aldmeri Dominion, like, and Queen A ran in her goals, like, oh, you know, we need, we need to take the Borubi throne from the, from the lesser races of men because they're lesser races and they need guidance versus sort of let's obliterate them kind of thing compared to the modern ones.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, I think the real thing that radicalized them was, was the, so involving the second dominion. So like after ESO, the events of ESO, the Aldmeri dominion collapses at some point, some point and then reforms in, um, year 830. And this is in part to, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, help as a blockade against Tiber Septim's expanding empire, but they also had other political interests and so on for taking Valenwood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Including like dealing with piracy and stuff like that. But they, what's interesting is they sort of, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Use it. It's kind of, I'm not even quite sure because originally the Thalmor in the first dominion are at the behest of the monarchy, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And by the third dominion, the idea is that Thalmor is this sort of political party that completely usurps the monarchy and disbands it, so there's no longer monarchy. But in the second dominion, I'm not quite sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The phrasing is often like uses the Thalmor as a new governing body of Valenwood. So I'm not sure if that's like an ultimate king, but then you've got, um, them using the Thalmor to control Valenwood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's important to note that like the second dominion is like the least fleshed out because really it serves as a purpose in the history book to explain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's, it's definitely a like a shrouded purpose kind of thing. And that's why I think mainly is to stop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, ultimately they get dissolved and, uh, so basically Tiber Septum uses the Pneumidium and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He essentially nukes the Somerset Isles and just absolutely, for the first time, makes them submit by force. So uhm, then he's basically united all of Tamriel. Uhm, and you can imagine a lot of High Elves did not like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, going forward, uhm, they sort of suffer through the septum dynasty for the entirety of the third era. But, uh, then we get to the oblivion crisis and the Thalmor are sort of a very, you know, elven supremacist pro uhm, independency kind of government.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, they early in the fourth era, so just proceeding after the crystal tower gets destroyed and everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so then the, the Thalmor basically stage a coup, I think it's the year 22, uhm, of the fourth era, and they basically knock out, uhm, the ultimate monarchy, so there is no longer a king.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I'm also interested, like I don't know what the government form is, like whether it's sort of like a, like a, like a oligarchy sort of council kind of thing, or if there is a democratic element or, or, you know, you know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very modern. Yeah, but you know, some form of that, I don't know what you call it, like dictator or whatever, but I'm sure they have some sort of like, um, at least public representative because is likely is some sort of shadowy stuff going on behind. Like that's part of, I guess, the Thalmor's interest is you don't, um, is that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not clear who you're fighting, it's just sort of like the idea of the Thalmor, like, and you're not sure what their goals are exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's interesting to note that we do have characters that are referred to as like lords or like ladies and stuff as well, which...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I, to me, like, as much as they've gotten rid of the monarchy, perhaps, like, there's still, you know, lots of noble structure and so on. Like, it's also a very ultimate thing, like, it might not be exactly like a rise, it's not like a rise up of the people sort of communist uprising type thing, it might just be a sort of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, just the elven supremacy angles, whereas they still value, like being elven supremacists would value things like, um, superior, like bloodlines and families and stuff like that. It's more so just getting rid of the, the control, like that being the kings and stuff at the top. But then again, like all kings, kings are sort of behest to their, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, they're what if barons, dukes, whatever, I don't know exactly what they use in the Somerset Isles, but, um, yeah, I think they'd have a hard time actually getting rid of all nobility in the Somerset Isles. Like I don't think it's just switched to sort of like a, you know, 20th century government type. You know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A bit more nuanced than that. But yea, so they, uh, and basically they get up into Valenwood's business and they back a coup in Valenwood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and they managed to take Valenwood for the Thalmor and they form, reform the third Eldmeri Dominion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well that's what they claim, like, so the Void Knights, I'm pretty sure it's two years, where the moons disappear, and obviously if you're familiar with...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I-I don't necessarily think it is a fel- like they were actually behind it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, like, I just, I just don't get the vibes that, like I get the vibes that Thalmor are powerful, but they're not that powerful, do you know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's also just, the reason I don't think they're that powerful is sort of how they kind of, not fear, but they're behind in terms of like the sigic order. Like there's this kind of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Sigicorder are sort of seen as like a, like a, uhm, not an outcast, wrong word. Uhm, like a renegade faction is the kind of way that seems to be implied when Ancano talks about them and so on. And so, so the vibe I would get is that they're...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. They also interesting just note is they dissolved the elsewhere confederacy and into the, um, kingdoms of Anaquina and Pelentine. So it kind of, um, once again, they've kind of got like two vassal kingdoms now, and I guess they've got, um, their own monarchies and whatnot, but,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, outside of that, we then move forward to year 171, where the Great War breaks out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so like the general gist of the great war, cause we're not, I don't think we're going to go in and discuss every single individual little battle, but they were attacking both Hammerfell and Cyrodiil at the same time. And, um, they, they do get in there and they're able to take Cyrodiil.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, and then they, um, and then, well, I mean, they do actually get managed to take it, which is pretty cool as well. But, um.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, ultimately, uhm, I think we should also just mention that they were, before the Great War actually broke out, they basically took all the heads of these blades agents and poured them out onto the floor to the, to the Emperor and basically said, here's sign the White Gold Concordat. Uhm, and then that- Well, they, they said sign it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It'd be like a big cart with like, you know, a big tarp over it. You'd have to wonder about all those flies. It doesn't smell or anything. It's a special magic to sustain these heads.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well they, so they go on with a great war, they nearly win, but then there's the whole battle of the red ring and there's some sort of monumental, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Strategims there and they end up, the Imperials end up winning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Elder Scrolls Legends storyline involves this and I really hate it because it makes, uhm, to me it undermines Lord Narathin, like, or in the Thalmor as well. So Lord Narathin is the guy who was basically assaulting Cyrodiil. He was in control of, uhm, conquest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What bothers me about it is, so basically they add in this storyline where Lord Narifin is trying to unleash this thing called the Culling, which is like this sort of Daedric thing that's gonna basically like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kill a bunch of, uhm, kill like these Imperials and so on. It's just basically to me, it's just this real like weak source, evil sort of like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I like it before because with the Thalmor, the idea is that they're this really evil, reprehensible, uh, faction, but their motivations are sort of like, aedric, if you know what I mean? Like they believe in the aedras, so they present as sort of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The good gods and we're doing this in the name of the good gods and the elves and stuff like that. It seems like on paper you could be like a holy purpose, but-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It, you know, obviously devastating and horrible, but instead they sort of had to, it undermines it if it's like, oh, it's only because this is evil Daedra worshipping stuff going on as well. The only thing that actually hints to that in the, I think it's in the great war book is that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Lord Narifin is, is like, captured and he's in a cage hanging off for 32 days or something off the edge of the tower, uh, white gold tower. But then these winged Daedra supposedly pick him up and carry him away. And that's a cool little like rumor, but I, I just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not a fan of the Daedra connection there, but it's kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, but, uh, yeah, so in the end, um, the Imperials win the great war, but then they do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, uh, capitulates to the Thalmor and Talos worship is outlawed. And uhm, but Hammerfall really doesn't like this and they keep fighting on because part of the treaty was that Hammerfall was to be given to the Thalmor or large parts of southern Hammerfall. Hammerfall I think it was. But uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which they took anyway. Yeah, but then basically, um, the Red Guards end up fighting on by themselves for another, I think it's five years or something, but then they sign a treaty, uh, the second treaty of Strossmachai. So they're no longer at war, but yeah, they managed to secure their own independence and their own autonomy. And they didn't have to be a part of the white gold concordat or anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and then we, so, and then we move on, uh, we have the, the Markarth incident where you have, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ulfric coming into uhm, into Markarth to help the Jarl retake the city from the Forsworn or the Reachmen at the time. Uhm, but yeaah, and then so, so basically Ulfric wanted to worship Talos and as long as that's secured and they can do that, it'll be a sweet deal. So he takes Markarth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, then it allowed them to start deploying a lot more, um, Thalmor justiciars to all of their, you know, Imperial lands and stuff. So, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, that's been mentioned in a few, um, texts that they're often, um, they don't outnumber the Imperials, but they're just sort of like genius and patience also. Like they can play the long game because they've got lifespans of hundreds of years and theoretically, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Thalmor, I can imagine that there are High Elves that were around when Tiber Septim just nuked Somerset High Elves within a medium. So they sort of grow bitter and they've kind of been planning and waiting and orchestrating. They wait for the entirety of a third empire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For 433 years or whatever to crumble. And then they start making their moves and they, they, they can be that way and they can slowly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I made a video on this, it's better to go and look at the Ulfric Explained video because it explains like his sort of motivations of basically like a deep shame, but Ulfric was captured during the Great War.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he was tortured and stuff, but he was tortured to the point where he gave up, you know, information about the Imperial city. But little did he know that the Imperial city had already been successfully taken, but Ulfric was led to believe that the information he gave caused it to be taken.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he sort of takes that kind of shape, it kind of feels like he's trying to, like he's over the top, pro-Nordic, anti-empire actions and anti-Thalmor stuff is really like trying to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To cope and like, um, to compensate for his greatest failure, which wasn't, you know, it didn't actually have any tangible effects, but, um, and letting him go off, um, you know, he indirectly becomes an asset of the Thalmor to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, cause more dissension amongst, uhm, amongst Skyrim. So you've got Hammerfell not lacking the, the Cyrodiilix. You've got, uhm, Skyrim divided. You know, the Empire's losing out, slowly withering and crumbling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, yeaah, I guess we can start talking about their overall endgame philosophy and stuff. Like, we can, we'll talk about what we know first and then we can start getting into some of the theories. Hmm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like I think like all of the, you know, if you think of the Thalmor as like the epitome or extreme of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, ultimate ideology, which is that they hate Lorcan and they hate the idea that he, um, betrayed them and basically turned


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, yeaah, and that's sort of, so, you know, we can infer a lot from that about the Thalmor, so they're obviously gonna take those sort of elven, very Anuic sort of ideals to an extreme, and which people use in other theories, like the stuff with the Towers theory. But, like, before we just jump into that, I was gonna say it might be a good idea to just sort of, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Throw down what we can canonly talk about first, then obviously they want to get rid of Talos. Uhm, you know, if you look into the metaphysics and stuff of the Elder Scrolls, then worship is very important to gods.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Absolutely. And, and they, so, so we can, we can pretty much all agree and say that they want to get rid of Talos, the concept. They don't want Talos to be a concept anymore because they want his worship outlawed and they want descendants to know nothing about him. Um, so that goal, you know, we can infer a lot from that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Worship or have a god worshipped that did this, you know, like Tiber Septum.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, what's interesting too is that there are some like, you know, and we'll talk about it, we'll kind of like, uh, stress test the towers theory, but some people point out like, so Skyrim, they have part motivation, but the idea of the deactivation, like snow throat, the tower sundered and bleeding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, that idea that the civil war is kind of what's causing it, but other people, like, because there's no certain answers to what the heart of the snow tower is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That it might cause it could be even a time wound at the top of, um, you know, where you go back in time and see Alduin, like that kind of thing. Like it might be due to Alduin's returning or whatnot that deactivates it or whatnot. But the assumption is, is that it's deactivated at the end of Skyrim. So you could argue that the Thalmors moves in there and, and, and, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it could also be for the same reason that it just divides people politically so they can conquer. But it's interesting because we don't know what like adamantine tower is one of the, is, you know, what could be the last one. It could be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, no, no, cause then you have each between the spaces in between the towers of the 16 Daedric Princes in their realms. But there is also stuff like, that is a nice neat cosmology, but there are also things where it's like there could be more Daedric Princes, there could be more towers or there could be less or more and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They could potentially all be deactivated or destroyed these towers, uhm, except one. And it could, and that one most likely one is the Adamantine Tower, which is, you know, where, uhm, convention was at the start of all creation. It's, it was a tower made by the gods. It was like, you know, the first kind of tower, really.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yes, so that's, that's their, that's their, you know, sort of going on theory about Unmake the World. The only other sort of canon thing I can think of is literally just one line from Ancarno and the College of Winterhold questline.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is about their intention, maybe. He goes like, oh, you've come for me, have you? You think, I don't know what you're up to. You think I can't destroy you? The power to unmake the world at my fingertips. And you think you can do anything about it? And he's like, you know, using some like electric control magic on the eye of Magnus.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Magnus is the architect of Mundus as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, cause it's mentioned in one of the Greg Key's novels. It's Infernal City, isn't it? That one. Is this the Towers quote?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the con- also worth noting that the concept of towers has been a thing for a while, like it's sort of mentioned in, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pretty sure in the 36 Lessons of Vex, there's stuff that talk about these ideas of, you know, the wheel and the towers and stuff like that. Like, it's not just a Skyrim, like, let's make up a theory around the Thalmor. However, Michael Kirkbride, who is also, uhm, the writer for, uhm, a lot of Morrowind's lore,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, and he bits and nights the nine stuff, but you know, he writes a lot of stuff outside of an official capacity, so you can't take it strictly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Canon, you know what I mean, but it's very interesting regardless. He, one of the, I'll read this out and it's basically, um, something he said in a forum once, but, um, yeah, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To achieve this goal, we must, one, erase the upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the wheel of convention and binds our souls to this plane.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Two, remove man not just from the world, but from the pattern of possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we want to break that down a bit, like one, erase the upstart Talos from the mythic, uhm, and his presence fortifies the wheel of convention. So that's fortifying the idea of mortality. He's a god of man. That's also interesting. Before that was saying to kill man is to reach heaven. So it's to kind of to get rid of this sort of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, there is the, the two remove man, not just from the world, but from the pattern of possibility. That's actually related to, to that is, is the idea, at least from what I've heard before is that Talos is a Talon and because he is kind of like the, the Lorcan reborn, he's that sort of champion of man of this sort of material thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, if you remove Talos and then there if I eliminate all men, uh, but not just from even the current pattern of possibility, that's even talking about like Calpers basically. So the very idea that they could be forgotten and they can't come back in another Calper and instead of this endless cycle of, we keep having this sort of Elf men dynamic kind of thing or a new weak pattern.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, because I'm not quite sure if it's the idea is that Talos is Lorkhan reborn so that he can be in the next kalpa and champion the cause of men. He can kind of fulfill Lorkhan's shoes in the next kalpa, like he is the one that creates-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It gets kind of strange. Uhm, and this is also dealing with stuff that's well outside of canon. But, and then obviously when it's saying the dragon will become ours to unbind, that's just the idea that they can take Akatoshin and, you know, control it basically. And then,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're not stuck, we're like unbind if you imagine it as a coil and it's like Calpas going around and around and around and around in time and they're sort of stuck in this sort of mortal existence of rebirth and death, even of the mortal universe. But if they can unbind it, then they can be free. It's no longer that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They might just retcon half the law cause that's what they did. I feel like almost it's kind of like the feeling and why would, and you know, this is a divisive topic, but you know how you start with the force awakens and then there was the last Jedi because it did such a flip and it was so unexpected and all that kind of stuff. Uh, in part that kind of like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you know what I mean? Like that's obviously, uhm, let's see what we call the, oh my god, JJ Abrams did not have the last Jedi in plan. And that wasn't the concept. And then, so between the three movies, you've got this kind of one black sheep in the middle, which kind of like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Divides it and then I kind of tries to re-correct the course and stuff, but by then it's, you know what I mean, it's kind of, suffers for it. But uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, like we can talk, maybe we can do a whole episode about challenging the ideas of canon and stuff like that and whether it's even, uh, relevant because, you know, explicitly like playing the sand demon build in Skyrim is a canon experience because you did it and you've done all of the things that were there in the bounds of the game, but like, is it canon that you did


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly this or like killed exactly that person and like, do you know what I mean? Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yeaah, there's some interesting stuff. One thing that I guess...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, it sort of goes against the towers theory is, cause it's become a very like accepted idea and so on. And I think it is, it's a really cool, like it's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fits very well philosophically with the Thalmor, right? No one's debating that and so on, but more so about the towers and their purpose, because they obviously have some sort of metaphysical greater purpose and so on, but uhm, I heard one theory about sort of like a,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like, it's very related to like the myth and storytelling. So if you, if you view Elder Scrolls as a song, like all the vibrations and the music and stuff like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These towers are sort of like these, um, solidifications of mythology and story. So, so you have the first one, which is adamantine tower and that kind of creates mortality or something like that. But then when you create, when white gold tower is created by the alyds and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What that has to do with is, is it's bound to the Amulet of Kings and then all of the ailed story and mythology which is essential to building into the, all the three empires and that sort of Age of Dragonborn stuff that it sort of encapsulates all of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like mythology and stuff in the same way, like Snowthroat Tower. That tower is more so about...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, the, the dragons and the nords and Alduin, there's the time wound at the top and then Alduin comes back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then that sort of whole story of existence is kind of the towel, but the heart or whatever is deactivated kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the end of the story, sort of same with Red Mountain and Lorkhan, like its story existed since the heart of Lorkhan was kind of found and then all the way until the, you know, the god, divine gods, the tribunal, sorry, abused it. But then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was like deactivated or the enchantments are shattered or whatever the deal is with the heart itself. Um, once that sort of Nerevarine prophecy and stuff all kind of gets resolved, it kind of, and the Animidium is destroyed. Uh, sorry, not the Animidium, uh, Quillcon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, it kind of resolves that story in the mythology, so they're kind of like, and we know mythology is super important to the Elder Scrolls, but it's kind of like personified stories of it, so that's their sort of metaphysical relevancy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in the, in the, in the same way that the purpose of them and why, I guess they're kind of like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The other way you can look at it is kinda quick, let's resolve all these stories and towers so we can unbind creation because the more mythology that entrenches reality as real, so like you got the white gold tower and all that stuff, you've got, you know, uhm, the crystal tower and all of that kind of stuff around it, it kind of fortifies this


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's the other thing, well kind of, the adamantine's tower story is by kind of default is like, it's end point is kind of all of existence, cause it is, it's beginning was the mortal realm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then its end point will be the end of the mortal realm, whereas all of the other towers had their time in their story. Like the Orokaoka Tower, it was relevant. Left-handed elves, Yakuta is all there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, the towers, it's not like that it has to like play its course as much as like you can actively try and, and like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Truth is fortifying reality and, and sort of covering up the lie that is, you know, your reality because you're all spirits in the Aetherius realm and stuff in reality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would rather them not have as much emphasis on conjuration, like something else instead. I feel like it's far more their style, even like beautiful elven craftsmanship of real swords. Like I get that they're trying to go like, ooh, they're elves, they're magical, but it's not my favorite thing, but that's like a little.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Full energy going on. Yeah, absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, we could talk about, uh, people would probably be interested to hear is, is sort of like, um, what we think they're going to do in Elder Scrolls 6. And really, like, I made a tiny little, uh, post on Twitter. You can check that out, but it was just, um, when we were doing like, I was writing stuff for the ideal,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Elder Scrolls 6 High Rock, which is just, which is not out yet. It's just, it got a lot of stuff on it, but it was just sort of an intro, sort of making a, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sort of bringing the plot around to what's gonna be a great war and adamantine tower type thing. Like, that's, that's a very, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good direction that they could go and they have been in ESO involving the towers a lot more and bringing up this concept of towers and stuff a lot. And not, well not directly being like, ooh, that's the Thelma's ultimate goal or anything like that. It's just, it kind of does help, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just put out there in the lore. It's being mentioned more so that they could go this direction if they wanted to. And I think...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For an Elder Scrolls 6, it's something that, you know, everyone wants to see more with the Great War, the Thalmor sort of result, cause this is all sort of alluded to and hyped up. At the same time, I think people also want something big and epic and metaphysical, but I think if they do do something that's just like, ooh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dangerous invasion by period or something like that. It's kind of underwhelming. And the reason I think they might go balls to the wall is that, you know, it's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Todd's talked about how he wants it to be a game that lasts for 10 years afterwards. Say it comes out 2024. It's been like well over 10 years since Skyrim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He'll want this game to come out and last till at least 2034, you know what I mean, in terms of its cult following and so on. So I feel like going out on a, on a, on a big note, like using everything they've got potentially, like the most big epic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like you can't really get much more epic than the, not even just like, oh, we're going to return to the Dawn era, the literal destruction of the Elder Scrolls universe. And it also ties in nicely with the Thalmor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They can also easily do a plot, like if they don't want to sort of like, if they feel the tower's theory is a little contrived, they could do something like, it could just involve the adamantine tower, like because it's like if you, if you think about that being like the, the final like pin in holding creation together, like they could be like destroying it to undo creation that way, it seems a little like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wait, sorry, what's the alternative to that? Oh, like if, instead of the explanation of like all of these different tasks, cause you know how it's kind of vague, like, ooh, is, is Snowthroat deactivated, wants its heart, something like that, or, or is Valenwood deactivated, do you know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And also, oh, what does it mean with a coral tower in Thras, like is that one of the towers or, do you know what I mean? It's, it's a bit, all of the tower stuff is a little bit vague. Like in the way that if you think about how expensive the Elder Scrolls is with the wheel, it's nice with the eight spokes and stuff, but oh, there could be more spokes or there could also be more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is also based on, like, that it's primed for the Thalmor because it's probably High Rock or Hammerfell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or both. Or both, if they go nuts like that, but uhm, I think, you know, if they do, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, like it doesn't even have to be a great war, it could be like a Hammerfell attack break, sorry, some, the Thalmor break the treaty with Hammerfell and then they start attacking and then there's sort of like all of the political stuff between the, maybe some of the forebears want the Imperials to come and support them and help them against them or, or what not, you know what I mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For some reason I feel like they'll try and avoid it, like if you have, for example, like some Hammerfell story in the year 202.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or something like that and they try and say that it's ongoing because some people posit the idea that the canon ending for Skyrim is if you just did the main quest, go straight through the main quest, you get the quest called season unending, which is, you know, the civil war debate thing that you've got to do mediate between Ulfric and Tullius. But that's a nice thing as well. I think it's kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Invalidate the choices of your previous experiences in other games and so on by saying like, oh, this is the, I mean, often there hasn't really been a choice, but in the same way that the Nerevarine doesn't canonly become the head of house Redran or house Lalu or, or the archmage of the majors guild and stuff like that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you can see where they, where they go with it, but, but yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are there any, are there any, I absolutely, I do, I do apologize. I actually completely forgot to put this out first as a community post to gather questions, but in my defense, the Thalmor is a pretty tight topic. Like there's not a lot to say, like I can't think more outside of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think I'm least happy with the Imperials winning just because it's not as interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, but I think for the most part, like, like I don't doubt that implemented canon thing like that, that involves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over the border and or maybe there, you know, certain characters coming in and you've also got Imperial characters from Cyrodiil or High Rock or Breton characters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know what I mean? It just, it just makes a little bit more of a mixed bag versus if it's like, oh, everything's Imperial again, it's all sweet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think I prefer the Civil War one, the season unending the most, but uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I also, cause I don't know what they're gonna do to the Dragonborn character, whether they'll sort of, like, get rid of him somehow, like, whether he's like, last seen on Solstheim or the, because they got rid of the Nerevarine by sending him to Akavir, they got rid of the Hero of Kvatch by making him Shagorath, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I feel like they've gotta, they've gotta get some tidy way to get what is basically a walking god out of the playing field so that you can be a walking god in Elder Scrolls 6. You know? But yeaah. I think, I think that pretty much tidies up everything, um, Thalmor-wise. I don't know if there's any ending thoughts. Any parting comments?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, if I can throw one thing out there, I would like them to double down on the Thalmor's elven-ness. So like if you would, and what I mean by that is that in Skyrim, they just basically serve to be, oh, we're anti-Thalmor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whereas I would love to see a lot more of their actual culture and traditions being like pushed to the front, like, and also they're, you know, them talking about the pantheon with like, you know, Aurel and Trinamac and stuff like that. You know what I mean? Like really honing in on that Elvish side of things a little bit more than just being anti, anti Talos, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, and also maybe some aesthetic diversity. I mean, the black and gold is cool, but you know, let's, let's see some other cool things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, descended from the Uldmer, like all Elves were. But their story is essentially that they were banished from Old Maris. So, they had this, I guess, king, but this guy called Orgnum, who was a wealthy nobleman, and he tried to start a rebellion against the Uldmer. And then he was banished for this, along with his followers,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Deep across the seas, past this impenetrable mist to the island of Pandania.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where he became and they became sea elves who are basically like elves except they're blueish and whitish and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some even have translucent skin, some have scales. Basically like, it's funny, but the derogatory term fish elves is kind of like the easiest way to describe them in terms of get an elf and a fish.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and kind of blend them together and they have a lot of serpent kind of themes and imagery as well, which is really cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It matches up with Orgrim being immortal as well. Hoho.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who are, honestly they sound a lot cooler in the story than they do when you see them. They kind of just look like a normal sea elf except their skin's much more scaly, they're a bit bigger and like brawnier and, and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, for sure. They're almost like the Argonians of the Elven world. In a way. Like, Pyandania is a, uh, like a marshy kind of rainforest kind of, uh, uh, Kelp land.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's described, it's described in a lot of different ways, you know? Um, but it's, all of them sound bad and not nice to be there. Like it sounds, I can just imagine it being super humid, super gross. Just, yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And obviously there seems to be a strong magic element to it, considering the mists, like the concept that there's these mists that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, because they've clearly been changed by their new environment and being banished.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It really might be a curse. I believe it's both, to be honest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like obviously I believe there are mists and that the island is kind of barraged by mists and storms all the time and that kinda is reflected in their magic as well and their ability to manipulate the weather with certain rituals and different mages who have special magics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, but also metaphorical in the sense that no matter how hard they try, this is the thing they get made up to be so powerful. It's kind of like you hear about a lot of races. It's like, well, if they were so strong, why haven't they taken over all of Tamriel? You know, if they're so strong, how come they haven't been able to take the Somerset Isles?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is interesting, I'll just bring up, there's a story of uh, I think it's Orgnum, and one of his kind of diplomats, or speak, he has a translator.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the translator mentions, uh, that he can speak the languages of four continents, Akavir, um, they're co- they consider Payandaneira a continent, Tamriel and Atmora. Um, which is, which is cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is this idea that Orgnum reverses in age. I've read that somewhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It says Patima shared her bed with Orgnum.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was deemed to be the polite and diplomatic thing to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I, for me, I feel like, um, I like the idea that Tamriel and kind of like Old Merus, they were already on it and that they got exiled from Somerset Isles and that's what they're constantly trying to ravage and reclaim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And like, it's just like the end of the timeline, so they've built so much and it says there's no nature remaining and their cities are just so like advanced and built on top of themselves. And then, Calpa ends. Very codile, I can imagine like some sci-fi tech, like envisioning it as built on top of each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But anyway, back to more canon stuff, uhm, I guess to kind of touch on Orgnum a little bit more, so if I didn't explain it too deeply at the start, he was basically a very ambitious nobleman type character, so he had a lot of money,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And enough money, obviously, to convince people to, to join his rebellion against the current people in power and try to take control, essentially, which I can imagine in my head as being on the Somerset Isles, as much as it could also be a different place called Aldmeris.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he lost and actually that's funny, isn't it? Cause that that's an example of him losing before any kind of curse. He lost straight up before there was any like being banished to Paiandanea or having the mists preventing them from coming back. So he sounds like he's just a.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Far southwest of Tamriel, and uhm, yeaah. They're stuck there, became the sea elves, adapted all their culture to it as well, all their materials.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look, I'll say this, he could easily have some kind of influence with Sadokal, or like, you know how there's different versions of different entities, like whatever theirs is. Obviously, they're in touch with some crazy magic and stuff, and some higher entities, like, all talk about their rituals that we see in Elder Scrolls Online, but,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look, if you were like the incarnation of Satokal, you'd think that you would be more successful. But I just don't even know if it's possible, it's kind of like the way I- What I'm saying is even if it was, you lose every time, you don't come across like you have the backing of gods.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sure, sure. So, there's these sea serpents, like, you can actually see them, you have, you go into combat with one in the Elder Scrolls Online, and I believe you even see one in the Adventures Redguard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're basically massive sea serpents, kind of typical of what you would imagine in a fantasy universe, that exist around Payandania.


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[Assistant] And the sea elves have managed to kind of tame, like I wouldn't say domesticate cause that kind of gives me the wrong, gives the wrong vibes, but essentially use them as kind of war steeds and battle mounts so they can ride them across the seas. I assume go under the water and jump out.


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[Assistant] Uhm, kind of on its back and things like that. And they're very, I guess, a formidable foe. Like, having the creatures of the water in addition to your naval forces is pretty OP.


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[Assistant] And they can also summon them. So they've kind of learned to use them with magic as well.


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[Assistant] Yeah, especially if they're not trying to draw too much attention to themselves. Like really the ones in Elder Scrolls Online are kind of just there to form a temporary alliance and do some pillaging and like nothing. Yeah.


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[Assistant] They are said to be absolutely vicious on the water. Like there's a really cool book called A Sailor's Guide to Sea Elves that you can find in the Elder Scrolls online.


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[Assistant] And it makes them sound super intimidating. So I'll just kind of go through the book and read a few of the things. So it says they're at home on the water, which we can all assume. Would you two think that they have any water breathing capabilities?


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[Assistant] Especially if they were on the back of a sea serpent that kind of, you know, did a duck dive under a boat and came up the other side or something. Not that you'd need to hold your breath for that long, but you know what I mean, especially they talk about them, um, using ambush tactics a lot.


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[Assistant] And one of the things this book says is that the Marama ships can remain at sea indefinitely, so long as it's seaworthy.


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[Assistant] So they kind of can just stay out there. They don't need to like go back to land or do anything like that. And they do tend to bait you into pursuing them.


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[Assistant] So some of the tactics, it says never pursue a retreating sea elf vessel, even if you think they are hobbled. They will bait you into thinking you can catch them, but make no mistake, sea elf cutters are faster than any ship in our fleet. Which I think is really cool.


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[Assistant] Soon you will be- Soon you will find yourself lured out into the open ocean, unable to safely retreat while they circle you like sharks. Your food stores will dwindle, and once you are finally too weak to put up a fight, the Marimer will swoop in to slaughter you. It is cowardly- It is a cowardly but effective tactic.


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[Assistant] I also like that, uhm, it talks about how the best way to deal with them is sometimes how people recommend dealing with sharks.


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[Assistant] It's, there's one quote about like if you can bloody their nose, like kind of do that in the sense that attack them, like don't run. If you run, you're screwed.


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[Assistant] If you can stay and put up a fight, that's your best chance of winning.


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[Assistant] Don't retreat and also don't pursue, supposedly. It says, never flee a sea elf vessel unless you can see land, but even then do so with great care. It's not a matter of if they'll overtake you, it is when. The best course of action is to stand and fight. At least then you have some hope of coming out ahead.


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[Assistant] It sounds really scary, like, rapidly just kind of slimely climbing up the ship. That was actually described as one of those Leviathans you were talking about, the half sea elf, half sea serpent hybrids. In the story, an Ultima describes one kind of like,


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[Assistant] And in terms of them changing, Scott, I will say this, there is a, uh, a text, the chosen people of Old Maris.


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[Assistant] Um, which is basically, I guess, propaganda where they believe that they are the true, um, old Mary kind of blood, the true race and that the Altmer are a mongrel race.


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[Assistant] I'm not sure how they come up with that. I know, but it's like the first line, many still believe that the Marama race of Pandania diverged from the racial line of the Altmar when they were exiled from Somerset Isle. So there you go, Somerset Isle as criminals. This is a great traitorous lie of the Altmar.


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[Assistant] Um, tapestries in the Crystal Tower reveal that the Great Marimer race is directly descended from the purest strain of our, of our Aldmeri ancestors. We certainly did not come from Somerset.


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[Assistant] Like a moldable jelly, like a play-doh. And then they've been able to show how moldable they are by changing into half-serpent hybrids.


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[Assistant] But look at what the Sigigorda look like, and, and, you know, and what the Ayleids kind of look like more, and what the Doreni look like.


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[Assistant] Look, I like, I like your theory, I like, I wouldn't take that as being the most likely case, but I would take it as a cool possibility.


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[Assistant] I guess you can cast doubt on it, but I suppose there's no evidence whatsoever to support the idea that the sea elves are closer to. It's just kind of like maybe and they have translucent skin, which kind of has a theme of what beings see through and therefore easier to change.


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[Assistant] I will say, so I guess I'll continue on to what we were talking about, about the sea elves and them at sea, but they also can control the sea. So on their ships, they can have sea mages that conjure wind and storm to, quote, toss you about like a toy boat.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and so it's kind of recommended that you kill, you know, it's like a boss fight. Kill the sea mage first if you come across one of their ships. Tactical move. Kill the sea mage.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that's pretty much what they look like. They've got these almost bat-like wings and then they're like a smaller sea serpent. It's like get the big sea serpent, make it really like little by comparison and chuck some wings on it. And uh, that's what you get.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so I mean, it's hard to be, but it is, it is hard to be scared of an enemy that for like so long has always lost, like the reputation that they'd have.


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[Assistant] Would be like, oh, they've never beaten us before. And the sigic order are the biggest meme plot device. I think they're really cool, but they're always used for like, and then the sigic order came and used unknown powerful magics to save the world. You know, it's, it's got a little bit of that kind of.


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[Assistant] Superman motif in, in terms of just like, Oh, what are the, what can't the Sijic order do? Nothing.


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[Assistant] Because mysticism is mysterious and OP. Except in the College of Winterhold, they're just like...


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, they're like, we already know the future, we know you'll succeed, but here we are. Oh, but don't worry, you'll win. Great dangers are coming, but you will prevail. So don't worry, man.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I know. Anyway, I will also say something that is quite cool. I just remembered about their biology of the leviathans, these, uhm, scaled kind of serpent mix hybrids specifically. In the story, uhm, the leviathan kind of pins down this, uh,


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[Assistant] Uhm, Ultima I guess. And it says, I was no match for the, oh sorry, it says, uhm, where is it? The jaw pops out like a snake. I'm trying to find the quote.


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[Assistant] Okay, so this is the chest you can get in Elder Scrolls Online that just gives you heaps of money constantly. I feel like there's more to it. So do you think it's like how he was a rich nobleman, like he had this enchanted chest back in the day that could just give him all his money?


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[Assistant] I believe there was a, there's some creature called a Lizard Bull, which is a mysterious beast race. They're indigenous to the islands along the coast of Piantania.


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[Assistant] Um, it says they were accidentally discovered during the interregnum on an ill-fated expedition to Pandania by a crew of pirates who were led by the infamous Captain Wireshark.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I guess the thing I would say is just like, we just have to work with what we've got. We don't know what's true and what isn't. And that's why they're one of the most mysterious kind of.


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[Assistant] I will say they, they obviously have a, uh, a personality and they have interests like anyone else. There's, um, a Marimer spyglass in Elder Scrolls Online and the description calls it a brass spyglass engraved with a raunchy Marimer limerick. You know?


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[Assistant] And there's also, uhm, a sea elf that you meet that has a relationship, uhm, I believe with a high elf.


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[Assistant] I mean they have made them, not the right word considering they're elves, but you get the point when I say they've humanised them a bit more.


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[Assistant] You know, like this, this castire in the Elder Scrolls Online and, uh, her affair, I guess, and then the sea elves who are not happy.


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[Assistant] They're said to hate the ultimates so much. Yeah. Yeah. They could diversify the races more. Um, I definitely wouldn't want to have playable like Akaviri races.


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[Assistant] For sure. Well, I guess, I guess we should talk a little bit more about, uhm, their magic and some of the stuff we learnt about them in the Elder Scrolls Online, seeing as they have, uh, blood sacrifice. They have some of the-


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[Assistant] There's been plenty of- But it's not just weather, it's like literally controlling the waves and particularly like the sea, as well as mists and storms and things of that nature, but I guess it's not completely unique. Uhm, if I just try and find some of the


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[Assistant] Like the Sigix are just Sigix, you can't really compete, but anyway, they have these totems of, um, kind of like that they use blood rituals for. So it seems like they tie people to them and then kind of bring down this, like a storm or electrocution onto them. Um, which is kind of.


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[Assistant] Yeah, for sure. Um, in terms of their rituals, I guess I've got a little bit more info so they can create hurricanes, right?


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[Assistant] Uhm, it's also said by someone that if they're doing blood sacrifice, it's kind of like a desperate thing in the sense that they need to gather a lot of power and like quickly. You know what I mean?


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[Assistant] It says, they dragged, so here's a quote, it's like, those filthy marimba dragged my mates up and tied them to these serpent shaped statues. Then they started chanting and lightning surrounded them. That's when the storm began to form around the island. It was a terrible sight, uhm.


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[Assistant] The Sea Vipers were so caught up in the ritual I slipped free. Then one of the Sea Vipers, uh, so her friend tries to, she tries to grab Sir, but the lightning held him fast. Then one of the Sea Vipers yanked at him and the Marimer's wrists began to glow.


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[Assistant] And then they had lodestones. So it seems like they're not immune to the lightning that they use lodestones to avoid getting electrocuted themselves. I'm pretty sure that's how the player kind of traverses that mission as well.


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[Assistant] There's also the story, uh, which is really interesting. Do you two know the story of Phenorial?


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[Assistant] Okay, so, Phenorial. Born in the Deepwoods, a small village in the Malabar Tor region of Valenwood.


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[Assistant] She. I'm just trying to- I'm- It's too long to read the whole thing, so I'm just trying to like, skip through to the best parts. Okay.


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[Assistant] Unwilling to die without extract- extracting vengeance upon her husband's killers, Phenorial swam the whole way to the southern island of Payandania. She visited her wrath upon the Marimer, killing indiscriminately until she was spent.


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[Assistant] As she lay dying atop the highest sea tower, the Sea Elf's greatest warrior came to claim her head as a trophy. Instead she grabbed him and threw herself to the waves far below.


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[Assistant] So she basically just went and did a massive slaughter of the sea elves and then died atop a mountain.


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[Assistant] Abosma was like stuff that I'm going to play underneath. I'll see you soon.


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[Assistant] But yeaah, I'm surprised all the- cause there's the tales that-


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[Assistant] You know, we've covered them enough anyway, like in terms of their significance and what they were doing. So that finishes up the Sea Elves podcast. Thank you all so much for watching. Go follow us on Twitter if you haven't already. Links in the description below and we'll be back to nerd out with you all again very soon.


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[Assistant] What is up ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Fudge Muppet, this is the Elder Scrolls Podcast, I'm Scott and here with Michael and Drew as always, and today we are talking all about the mysterious giant.


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[Assistant] And surely you are familiar with Giants having played Skyrim. You've been sent into space many a times when you've come across them. But which one of you guys would like to start? Well, they're really big.


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[Assistant] That's all it takes. Bugger the old Riemann space programs and sunbirds and stuff.


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[Assistant] Well yeaah, let's get to uhm, some of the real basics that you're probably, uh, you guys are probably familiar with. So, you see Giants crossing the Tundras in White Run, and we've also seen Wrothgarian Giants just very similar.


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[Assistant] As a general rule, they are mammoth herders primarily, they're pretty peaceful for the most part, they're quite like reclusive, they just stay to their own camps and so on.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and they do have this rather intimate connection with the mammoths. Uhm, the mammoths kind of provide like companionship as well as the milk and stuff to make their cheese, the mammoth cheese, which is a big thing. They also do have, uh, apparently giants know how to make mammoth tusk powder.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and it's probably just because they're big and strong and can crush those tusks into tiny pieces. But basically they're camps, they, they're not dumb beasts like...


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[Assistant] Interesting, we'll get to this a bit later, but frost giants we sort of see a lot of the time and they're kind of just, we don't really see their, uhm,


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[Assistant] And you know, with places like Sekunda's Kiss, we see formalized, uh, burial sites, so where they'll go to die. Well, I don't know if they bury, but like funeral sites, dying sites. So giants will go there to die.


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[Assistant] And they're all decorated in sort of the cultural motifs and stuff. And they also have like scarification, like they scar these symbols into their own skin as well. So they do have some.


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[Assistant] Like spiritual connection and totem, and they even like do it on the mammoth tusks as well of the living man. It's just sort of like symbolize a connection, I guess, perhaps. And maybe that's sort of like a mutual thing in the way that it's carved into their calves, tusks and then carved into their own skin.


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[Assistant] So they are, they are, but essentially a nomadic group of mammoth herders and stuff that we see and they have different campsites. But we've also seen at different times in history that there have been more and, uh, and we've seen like proper clans and a bit more, um, combative versions of giants, I guess, compared to what we've.


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[Assistant] We've seen, uhm, so there's the legendary tale of, uhm, Sinmer, uhm, who fought Isgrimor and Isgrimor killed him all great with Wuthrad and everything.


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[Assistant] Wouldn't it be like, if he's picking him up, choking, wouldn't it be like, head-butt?


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[Assistant] But if you, if you go by this time too, it's sort of like Sinmer is like kind of like a high chieftain of all of these giants who were more spread at the time of Isgromor, which also means they were there kind of when the, uh, the snow elves would have been there living peacefully, as well as other needs and stuff as well, like needed groups. Um, but yeah, so I guess,


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[Assistant] I guess that kind of, and we can also just quickly mention that they have, so there's, there's clan systems and.


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[Assistant] They're usually led by a chieftain, but there's also examples of matriarchal ones. Um, and you know, they're, they're quite territorial as you've experienced plenty of times in Skyrim. Um, and then they're fought back and forth over territory. Sometimes they'll grab a little bit, but yeah, as you can expect.


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[Assistant] What's interesting here is to actually speculate their origins. And that's what's most interesting about the giants, I think. Uhm, is their, the speculation surrounding where they're from. Because there's the, the simple basic thing is people go, oh, pointy ears, therefore,


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[Assistant] The chief of all the theories, uhm, is the idea that they are from Atmora.


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[Assistant] Along, so there's this idea that ancient, ancient Atmorans were.


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[Assistant] These massive tall people who are very, very intelligent, but then apparently there was this sort of warring and division and they separated into two people where you have the smaller nords who would retain their intelligence, but not the physical stature and the giants the reverse. They retain their stature, but not the intelligence and you know,


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[Assistant] That's a guess, people could dismiss that and say there is no common. I'd be interested to hear what you guys think, like.


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[Assistant] Yeah, did they do it? I can't actually remember if they had the blue blood in Skyrim.


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[Assistant] Yeah, regardless anyway, you know, so the frost giants might be a little bit of a separate one, uhm.


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[Assistant] A bit of a, I think they're distinct from the actual Giants. I don't think they have a common Atmorin thing, if the Giants even are Atmorin. So if we were to suppose this sort of idea, the idea is that they split in Atmora from, so you sort of get your, the Atmorins that become Nords and you get your traditional sort of Giants.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and then they would have come in different migrations, but if we remember, we've got


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[Assistant] I mean, I love the ice here. I think so I'm personally, I personally think it is there definitely from at more at the very least the, the, the relation to the, to the nodes could be debated and stuff, but


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[Assistant] Yeah, the size of Ireland, so they've built them for themselves. So it's easily that they could have come across and then they've degenerated into a primitive, more primitive culture.


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[Assistant] Perhaps back in the day, and arguably so, if you look at Sinmer being a high chieftain of all of these clans and he was a more formidable force, their society could have been more advanced than the ones we have today. Same sort of go, as we mentioned, like for the Minotaurs.


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[Assistant] The seals kind of do have, as much as it's blue, they kind of do have a very whitish kind of skin.


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[Assistant] Well funnily enough actually, at this time even in the second era, so which is when we experience the sea giants in ESO,


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[Assistant] Um, they do, by the virtue of having ships and you look at their armor and weaponry and stuff, it's much more advanced than the giants you see in the time of Skyrim and what they're doing. So the sea giants perhaps have, might have been sort of an, maybe an early offshoot or something that sort of retained some of the civilization. Like, you know.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well that's like, it once gets sort of a circumstantial thing for him, but you know, being sea giants going to sea, that the whales became their main form of, of sustenance and stuff in the way that, and you can sort of, the hunt,


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[Assistant] How they eat is really just the ideological difference almost. You can see like the peaceful giant herders and they're relatively peaceful yet territorial, as you know, you can be. And then there's the sea giants, which are like, they're all about hunting these whales and kind of like,


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[Assistant] Wails have been described as like bloody and dying of shock and stuff, and they're already ripping it apart and stuff. That also kind of mimics how they kind of act in their raiding and stuff. But there's an important point to bring up here too, because there are half-giant kin of the, of the sea giants.


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[Assistant] Yes, well because, so we see that and then we've got the Lyris Titanborn story where her father is a half-giant. So all of these kinds of half-giant kind of things to me sort of implies a little bit more that they do have some common ancestry in a way that they can sort of share and that there's these half-breeds.


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[Assistant] I'm pretty sure there's even examples of them being gladiators and bodyguards at times for others and stuff. So they're definitely on the level of like.


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[Assistant] Funnily enough, some of the wikis, uhm, has them under, like, as a beast race, but I don't really think of them as a beast race because of, at more in potential, at more in heritage and stuff, and they don't really look similar to any creature or anything, they're kind of just a giant humanoid type thing.


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[Assistant] It's funny that, uh, that, that there is an example of where Kirkbride's law or, you know, in more in broadly.


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[Assistant] Alicia in the Greymoor expansion with, uhm, the horns and the more ancient sort of look.


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[Assistant] So, so the other thing too, while we're on the topic of out of lore stuff, there is a drawing by Michael Kirkbride that says, Talos farewells the king of Atmora. I'll put it up. And you see the king of Atmora and he's a giant, he's massive and so on. And I wonder too, like I kind of.


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[Assistant] I don't know if we know enough about sea giants and stuff yet, but I wonder if they are sort of touching base with like Atmora and so on and that maybe giants are some of the last civilization on Atmora at this time.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well, like, but it could be like some, that could be some giant in at morrow of some, as it says ancient giant, like the ancient giants just in general, they could have been massive and then slowly over time they've, they degenerated, but then there was the obviously divide that we see. Um, just based on-


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[Assistant] Yeah, I, I do uhm, cause I do kinda like the idea of the big massive ancient giants that would have used to exist in a more sort of, uh, mythical sense, in a more, almost like more godlike or demigodlike in a way, because when you're talking about Atmora, you're talking about


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[Assistant] I do love the Vex quote of calling it the land of frozen bearded kings, but the interesting about frozen bearded kings does not necessarily mean Nord, that can also mean giant, they all have beards and stuff, so there could be this massive giant and then


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[Assistant] You know, but like yeaah, I kind of like the idea that sea giants are sort of like the last kind of...


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[Assistant] Inhabitants of Atmora and they sort of become like, uh, nomadic sort of circling around the seas of Atmora and stuff in between Tamriel and stuff because they just sort of like attached to their homeland.


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[Assistant] The other thing, this is another thing to support the giant heritage stuff.


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[Assistant] But it is just, obviously we know that, uh, Skyrim and the Nords and stuff have a huge inspiration from Scandinavians and Vikings and so on. And giants were a massive part of that real world mythology, uhm, and a lot of them, there's a lot of half giants and connections and stuff, so I'm just sort of like,


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[Assistant] There's a good chance that, you know, this is sort of, uh, the actuality of the situation that they are sort of related, at least on some sort of mythical, uhm, level.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I've said Iliyadi before, but yeah.


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[Assistant] Well, in one of the books, they are described alongside, like, I think it's literally a book called The Fairies or The Fairies or something. Yeah, something like that. And it, and it includes them as, oh, other names include Iliadi, Faye, this, so on. Um, and they're supposed to be these big giants, taller than trees with many, many eyes on the Somerset Isles that are now extinct.


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[Assistant] But, when I hear many many eyes, it also makes me think of the frost dragon.


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[Assistant] So I wonder if maybe the frost giants are actually more akin to something like a fairy, fey kind of thing if the giants are in relation.


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[Assistant] There is a lack, there's one like little inconsistency between the frost giants is the frost giant like karstak and stuff. They have five eyes in blood moon. So the frost giant karstak has five eyes. They only have four in the new, in the newer and oh, and then so does karstak when you summon him because he's just a frost giant type. But frost giants are in frost.


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[Assistant] But that's when it's kinda like the troll, like at least that kinda looks like the old, the old, uhm,


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[Assistant] The old frost giant just with two extra eyes at the bottom, but regardless, like they have been shown to be intelligent, like we do have


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[Assistant] But yeaah, I don't know, I kind of vibe the idea, I don't know, what do you guys think in like, I think they're kind of the Iliadi sort of fairy kind of thing, a bit more in the way like, you know, there's like earth bones or spirits or that kind of thing, they're like more nature related, they're not like a descendant of-


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[Assistant] Cause the name for that, I'm pretty sure, cause originally the Hall of Colossus is where the, where, um, type of septum is rebuilding the Numidium.


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[Assistant] So that's why I thought it was called the Halls of the Colossus, like the big colossal golem kind of thing. Yeah. But then, but then later it was at houses, the, the dragons, I'm pretty sure for the elsewhere with like the Wrathstone and stuff, or Wraithstone or whatever it was called.


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[Assistant] Well, if you want to look at where in the lore Giants have said to be, um, through Velenwood and up through Cyrodiil, High Rock, Skyrim kind of stuff. So they're pretty widespread. So Velenwood's only next door to elsewhere. So it's like, could be, yeah. Like there's nothing, um, super set on it, I think.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well, they didn't put them in Cyrodiil and stuff, but I mean, they were in the high rock and stuff in like Daggerfall games and stuff like that. And, and obviously we've seen them in the Rothgarian region, but yeah, they seem.


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[Assistant] Pretty restricted to, uh, northern regions and the ones I imagine in Valenwood where it's sort of the same, right? Um, kind of realm of like centaurs and minotaurs and stuff that can live there just because they get a natural protection and they're not bothered by civilization as much. The Bosmer are pretty easy going.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but the only reason they call it, it's only to like, cause it's a familiar fantasy trope kind of thing. Like, you know, dwarves, they want to associate with like, oh, industrious and underground, just like other fantasy things.


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[Assistant] But it is cool, but I definitely think they are. I think the Sea Giants is a really cool addition, but the Silvery Blue Skins, you know, like you said, it can just be to distinguish them and sort of like, you know, culturally.


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[Assistant] Culturally different, because they've fallen, they've fallen sieged.


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[Assistant] I wish we saw some of these cool, I know they're adding all the cool stuff to ESO because they keep having more ideas and they're like, I've got to keep making expansions and putting stuff out.


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[Assistant] Because the virtue of ESO, so much cool shit has happened in such a small period of time and the rest of history is blank. It's like, like, all of these giant, there's giant invasions, sea giant invasions, there's like, uh, sea elf invasions like we were talking about before, we're seeing all this cool stuff and then by the time we get to an Elder Scrolls mainline game, it's all gone.


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[Assistant] I really wonder if they will refer to it as a dragon break at that time, like put in a dragon break in Elder Scrolls 6 more to like explain it.


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[Assistant] I don't think it needs to either. Cause I was just thinking, why do we need a dragon break? Cause the Daggerfall, it's not like there's multiple endings to the ESO stuff. No, it's just crazy. Outside of the three banner war stuff.


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[Assistant] Well, I guess so Sinmer is as well the other named giant in that is Grimor Slough. Like that's the other thing, but yeah, like giants in general seem to all have like similar name names in general. So.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure, like, I feel like that's the...


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[Assistant] Yeah, I'm also curious how this half kin stuff happens. So there's like half giants among the sea giants. So what are they doing? Like raiding and you know, doing the deed, doing the deed, I guess, but like, I don't know. I don't think it's my first choice, right?


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[Assistant] I don't know why, I mean, I really like giants, just in mythologies in general. They sound mythological, I think they're inherently cool and mythological just in the way that


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[Assistant] Like, you know, gods on a philosophical level and stuff, or a metaphysical level, like they're bigger, they're greater, they're bigger souls and stuff, but.


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[Assistant] I think that Giants aren't the most expansive one. It's a lot of record.


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[Assistant] Yeah, just because most of it anyway is kind of like most people have kind of seen it, it is what you've seen, like there's nothing too complex to it, it's just another one of those distinctions, it's important to say they're not just some monster, they clearly have their own sort of societal kind of cultural things.


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[Assistant] And the primitive kind of element could be, just like we said with Minotaurs, a degeneration, not due to physically degenerating, but rather being pushed out by civilizations.


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[Assistant] I was just saying another thing, just more Atmora myth, like obviously there's giants, but it was in one of Isgrimor's things that Isgrimor was said to have collected the laments of giant wives while in Atmora.


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[Assistant] And then twisted those into the bow string for his fabled bow. But that's, that's obviously more confirmation that he was slaying giants back in Atmora. Uhm, making those giant wives cry.


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[Assistant] Oh no, no, sorry. It's, it's not. Yeah. All good. I was thinking, I'm like, is that the, is that the, from the black book, that one, but no, it's the stories from, it's from Fragmentae Abyssum Hermaeus Morus. Yeah, that is that.


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[Assistant] Could throw something at you, maybe obviously there's, maybe the distinction wasn't as, like maybe Isgramor could have even been like sort of.


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[Assistant] Much more half-giant kind of size than some of the ancient Atmorons were, even bigger. Like just, even just little things. If you look at, I know he's a god, but he is still an Atmoron god, but uhm.


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[Assistant] But the sea giants have got like a really dark blue skin tone. Yeah. And they're from further north.


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[Assistant] To be fair also, the Dwemer and Kymer are just as north as the Snow Elves are. I feel like a lot of it when it comes to Elder Scrolls.


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[Assistant] Yeah, well it depends, when did the film migrate there? Or when did the nords also migrate?


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[Assistant] But yeah, I don't know how much there is to the, it's, I don't know if it's about vitamin D and the older scrolls, I think.


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[Assistant] But the point of this episode is the iceberg part two. So we have this giant essentially meme list of theories. Some of them are legitimate, some of them are kind of not so much.


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[Assistant] And our goal is to go through as many as we can in this episode. Obviously we're not gonna clear the whole list, judging by the length of last time. And kind of figure out what we know from there, what we don't know, what's good information or interesting, and what is total BS. So...


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[Assistant] We're up to Blade's secret bloodlines, I believe, on the Glathier picture, or kind of just getting to the Glathier picture.


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[Assistant] Uh, I, I gave that a quick google last night and there's literally nothing.


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[Assistant] I was thinking maybe the blades had kept a secret bloodline of, um, septums. That's all I could think of. Yeah, could be. I feel like this one's pretty, like, vague. I don't know.


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[Assistant] Anyway, the next one is Arden Saul, which we already spoke about on the Shivering Isles podcast. This is the, um, powerful prophet from an earlier time in the Shivering Isles, who the zealots and the manics have very different, or the zealots and the heretics, I should say, have very different beliefs about. Um, there's nothing to...


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[Assistant] Anyway, I'd say go watch the Shivering Arms podcast and we'll just chunk along to...