[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, you know, so they, they have their own set of struggles and hurdles they have to, they have to, to, to overcome. But as, you know, his story in general, racing, winning the lights championship, uh, deciding to retire, I guess, and then became a cop and coming back and now he's right. And now he's on the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, throwing it up in the top five, I believe a podium, right? Uhm, yeaah. On the podium, so it's a pretty crazy story that I grew up about three hours north of them, so uhm, like I said, I think we're gonna have to, I think we're gonna have to get them on the show to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I know Justin's a very talented writer, uhm, but man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was never teammates with either of them, um, Justin or Josh, older, older brother, uh, we raced, um, lights bikes together along with 450, but, uh, never, never Justin, but man, it's, it's, it's pretty crazy story to see. I'd like to get them, like I said, like to get them on the show to, uh, and pick up some questions and see what, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was coming on, he was coming on, like, in, uh, you know, I think, uh, interesting to see what happens, right? Like I said, he's Team Tedder, but I'm thinking, okay, if I'm, if I'm Factory Honda and I have a, I have an A guy already, or if I'm any one of these manufacturers that have an A guy already but need a B guy, call it a B guy, a guy that's a top 5 guy, he's gotta be one of your guys that's on the list.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, but man, if he can, if he, I don't know if he plans on racing outdoors or not, but, uh, it was a hell of a season for him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, stock in AC and was able to make the move. You know, that's not an easy, that's not an easy thing to do. You know, so, um, you know, have to give those guys praise because I know the, the, the budget's probably this big, the ones that are watching. I'm showing it's a micro compared to these factory writers. So, um, they're doing a hell of a job. Like I said before, it's, it's really cool to see.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, we got that right here, the dab with the knee, you know, uhm, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yeaah, he says he hyper-extended it, so obviously now protocol would be to go get MRI, see if there's anything damaged, uhm, to see, you know, you can tell right here, he's like, dude, it's, uh, it's not feeling good, you go back, regroup, figure it out, but, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's, you know, injuries are part of the sport. I know there's lots of questions. What can we do to fix this? What can we, how do we fix this? You know, all these things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uhm, you know, it's, it, look, I've been in that same position, Seattle supercross, dabbed my knee, popped it out, ACL, you know, Tuesday, getting surgery. So it's just part of, kind of par for the course, you know, there we go. There's the replay. Yeah. So what happened there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So came in underneath, didn't get the greatest of starts and started, came on up underneath a Davey and uh, and so you can see all the tractor marks for the ones that are watching Bobcat marks and I came in too hot and I got on the brakes too aggressive, front brake too aggressively and really grabbed it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, the front end knifed on me and the first thing to go out was my leg. And when your, when your knee is bent in that, at that angle a little bit, that's like the weakest part for your ACL or, or ligaments when it's, it's when it's bent like that. And I know we all wear knee braces and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you try to wear the things that you can wear that, uh, that, that still make you fast, right? Like I'm sure we could wrap ourselves in bubble wrap, but we're not going to be able to ride the motorcycle, right? So, and like I said before, when, when we, when we showed the replay of Eli,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can pull of every replay through practice, uh, up at heat races. I guarantee you he overshot that by a little bit and did that same thing and it just happened to happen that one time, right? So uhm, they're preventative. It's, it's not the end all be all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, here's the deal, our, our, our races, our, our series, our, our promoters, um, they're doing the best job that they can do. They're putting their, they're putting up a great platform for us to be able to go out and win championships, uh, make a living at racing a dirt bike.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, it's, uh, it's just like bull riding when you go ride a bull. How many times are those guys injured that the bull steps on them or they fly off and they're knocked out or this or that? It's the sport we've chose. Uhm, and we all know that, right? So uhm, it is what it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the other thing too, right, right, Ricky, is how many of these are mistakes from the rider? Like, I don't think Eli's was a mistake, uhm, that was just something, but like, Justin, for example, hit that dragon's back, uh, a ton of times and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those are things that, that potentially could have been avoided on his side. I'm not saying that he made the mistake.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After the whoops here comes into the whoops, it looks like he misses one and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, riding a bull, he's got the look of a cowboy, he puts the persona on as a cowboy and he was riding that bull into the TV camera there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did, I did watch a futures race. I did. It was a good battle there for the first lap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I, you know, after coming into that turn, I, in my opinion, I mean, I think you agree that Dax was, was going down and then Juju had to get on the breaks really hard too, but it just shows you that these guys are the, the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're, they're full of piss and vinegar, you know, they're, they're out there, you know, trying to put these things, look how slippery it is to actually try to climb back up the berm. So that's one of those things that, that, uh, that, uh, as a rookie, right, as, as, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Riding as hard as they were pushing the tires on that condition, right? Like I don't think you would, in a year's time you wouldn't see them doing that or pushing that hard because it came out, it was a bit slippery and they were just, they came out of the gate hot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, probably overlooked the amount of traction that was out there and, uh, Dax came in after he made that pass and, and started washing the front and then Juju was right there too and had to grab breaks and they both went down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's right. No, he definitely rode well. Uhm, uh, hasn't been the fastest, but also to win races, you don't have to be the fastest, right? You have to be, put yourself in good positions. Uhm, and he was right there, those dudes went down, and he was able to capitalize on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, totally. You know, I think this, I have to say this is probably one of my favorite episodes. The interview with Chase was really cool to hear the struggles, to see the struggles, and have him open up about it. Like I said, I still think that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is one of the biggest growing years for him as, as a racer, being able to overcome those, those mistakes. So I think this is, I'm going to go on and say that as, as of right now, this so far, this has been my favorite, uh, episode to, to hear what Chase had to say, man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hi folks, Lee Diffie from NBC Sports here. If you truly enjoyed what you just watched, you can get more news, interviews, and highlights by subscribing to the Motor Sports on NBC YouTube page. You can get it all, so go for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hello everyone and welcome to Title 24, first episode presented by NBC Sports. I'm Ricky Carmichael alongside


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of the best to ever do it, Ryan Villapoto. And we got some special stuff happening with you guys all through super motocross series each week.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gonna be a, uh, a lot of fun and, uh, I'm excited to do this, Ryan. How about yourself?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Hopefully, uh, everyone tuning into the show will, will enjoy it. The significance, uh, of the 2-4, if, if anyone is, is, is wondering about that, is between Ryan and I, we have 24, uh, major


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] National championships. And, uh, so that's where the two and the four came from. So, uh, it's, it's ironic when we were putting this thing together, Ryan, I'm like, oh wow, this is crazy. So, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For all you guys wondering the significance, that's what it's about. But before we get going,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we got some great partners involved. Uh, the first is United Motorsports. Uh, they got six locations across Ohio and Kentucky, some great people, uh, running that company. Um, some, um, some personal friends of mine, uh, also, so we're happy that, uh, they're a part of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keep an eye out for them, uh, they're gonna launch their, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Launch their online store, which I think will be, will be massive. Uh, second, Quadlock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The leader in phone cases and mounts, they got, they got it all for all your needs, off-road needs, whether it's bicycles, motorcycles, boats, side-by-sides, cars, cars. Uh, my favorite is they got like a little, uh, phone charging deck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, love that, can just throw your phone on the counter and it charges while you're going. And then last but not least, Foxo USA, incredible tool company, uh, for whatever you need as far as tools go. They got you dialed, uh, quality lifetime guarantees. So, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nevertheless, uh, this wouldn't be possible without him, so happy that they're along for the ride and we got some fun giveaways and things that we're going to be doing along the way as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think let's just get right into it, and Ryan, I think the biggest thing, the news, and I didn't think this was going to happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want to hear what you got to say is the news about Eli Tomac coming out saying he's going to race pro motocross championship and then the SMX, uh, playoff rounds for the inaugural SMX world championship, uh, series and in the title. What, what are your thoughts? Did you anticipate that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I wonder like, you know, I, I personally wasn't anticipating that to happen. I thought he was just going to ride off into the sunset. I mean, you, you know, better than anyone, just like the mental, the mental aspect of it. And just when you're a champion, multi-time champion like him, the grind that it has on you mentally, I didn't, I didn't think he was going to keep going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I really didn't, uh, to your point selfishly, I'm pumped.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because uhm, you know, I love, I love watching him each and every weekend. I think he brings a lot to the sport, even our younger, uh, our younger demographic. Uhm, he's just a great.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, for sure. That was, that was great. Uh, Arlington. Triple Crown.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Freakin', the Triple Crown, uh, is always bringing the action, in my opinion. I love him. I know the riders don't like it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, being exposed to the first corner, but damn, I mean, it, it puts on a really good show. And, um, do you, I mean, do you like the triple? I don't even know. Did you even raise the triple crown?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we talk about, uh, so break it down like 250 dude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wasn't expecting Thrasher to come out and do as well as he did, especially with the knee injury and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, not that I, not that I don't believe in them, but I mean, I go back to that first, the first race of the night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And dude, he was, he was given Hunter Lawrence all the pressure that I would have wanted to have from anyone. Don't you think?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It being, I mean, that'd be a hell of a, a feat if he's able to go the distance right and challenge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's uh, I, I was uh, it's fun to see that. It's fun to see them guys, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be challenged, you know, so I just, man, I just go back to trying to race without an ACL. I mean, I was going to try to in 2004 and hell I didn't even.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't even, I didn't even make the series. I think one thing, uh, and we can close it out on the 250, but it's going to be interesting to see how Hayden Deegan, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like this is the first weekend that he was kind of put to the test, you know, cause he's done really well. I mean, we've talked about it before, but I always like to see how these guys respond and like, okay, now, now you've finally gotten, gotten a taste and what, what's your expectations?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think he's, I, I agree with you. I totally think he's mentally strong, like strong enough to be like, okay, whatever. I screwed up the first race of the triple crown, but he did good the last two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, as far as the night goes, now that, now that I sit here and think about it, but moving on to the 450.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, like these fantasies, right? It's like, who do you pick? There you go. There's the points. Honestly, I haven't seen it this tight in a really long time. Uhm, I feel, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is where I want your expertise. Like, I said this on the broadcast, I feel like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of these riders are right on the brink and you know how it is like, man, if you would have just went one or two more laps, you would have, you would have broke me, right? So I feel like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's where these guys are at, whether you're Cooper Webb trying to wear down Eli Tomac or Sexton trying to wear down Eli Tomac, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you feel like, who do you give the advantage to and do you feel like they're at that, at that moment where it's a game, it's between the ears?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow, so you give, you give, you give Eli just a slight advantage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know you ain't seeing me out there. There is no shot. I just, I understand what you're saying and you made, you bring up a great point about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not to say the dudes on the inside of the dudes he were around were scrubs by any stretch of the imagination, but...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, I guess yea, you'd rather start next to some, you know, not your main competitor, but dude that is just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you talked about, there was no, there was no defense tactics right there. That was, but to your point, like that's, that's just confidence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What does it take for the pendulum to swing, at least for you to give say a guy like Cooper


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cooper the edge, like how you're giving Eli the edge, like, what, what, like, what do you have to see?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In order for you, for you to be like, okay, not Cooper's the guy now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Same old thing with, uh, Sexton and I, I, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, dude, but he lays it down in that rut, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tell me what Ryan Villapoto's thinking right here if you're behind, if you're behind Eli.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Futures was good. I mean, not really a surprise. I mean, when you consider Dax and Binnick who he rides with all the time. But the gnarly thing to me is the confidence that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Legit deal from KTM, right? Like a long time commitment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he walked away from that to be on what is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably known as the best 250 program in the paddock, for sure, for several years now. And basically betting on himself with no deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From, from what I understand and he's been, he's been laying it down in the futures.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You think it, like, because, because of a situation in...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, as far as I know, he doesn't have a signed deal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why, like, why wouldn't a guy like Mitch scoop him up? You know, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey, you know, do you ever, I never asked you this amongst, I'm surprised over some cocktails, we haven't talked about it, but do you think it'd be cool if they, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was some sort of like trade, trade agreement in Supercross and Motocross amongst teams.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I just think from a, you know, team owner's perspective and, you know, I'm sure that there's certain circumstances where the rider would get hosed, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At least from a team perspective, you know, the, the team principles, they, they know what is at stake. So they're happy making that gamble on that trade agreement. So that's why I think that it, it would work because, you know, like one team's not going to trade with the other if, if they're not stoked or they're not willing to take the gamble. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, I just have always thought, I'm like, dude, it'd be so epic if there was a trade, you know, like some kind of trade, trading agreement.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Could you imagine though, like, racing for kawaii one weekend and then...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dude, you're at like KTM, the next, that'd be, that'd be tough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was a lot of stuff happening in that last, that last race, especially before 50, right? Chiz goes down. Then you had Grant, Grant Harlan, like, yeah, here's like a replay. You, give me your analysis on this, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you ever get the sense like Chase is looking like straight down at his front wheel?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did you see? Did you see that? Like, it doesn't look, like, I'm thinking what you said and I told, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't even think of this until you just said that. Yeah, like he's coming out of that corner. Yeah, he should have just, I mean, here we are, you know, Tuesday morning quarterbacking it, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, you gotta, yeaah, you gotta predict. I feel bad for, uh, Harlan just because he's probably getting just absolutely annihilated because I, I, there, you know, like, there's one part where I,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if it's the rule, but I think at the riders meeting, sometimes they've said, and you know this, like, hey, if you're getting lapped, just hold your line.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so he's probably getting ruined for not holding his line, although dude, he was just trying to get out the way. I feel bad for the guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And last, last topic for the weekend, and you and I talked about a little bit while we were prepping for the show on Sunday, the whoops. So, what did...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, for sure. I would go sideways. If anyone wants to relive the past, go to Indianapolis 2002. I tried that and had the save of my life. So that one's always a good one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Definitely to your point, when there's a rut, they get beat out as you know, and then yeaah, you have to jump through them, so that's my opinion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So here's my deal on the whoops. They've been...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They've been a hot topic the last couple of weeks, as you know, and I think they're chewing up, they're chunking up a lot more than they ever have. I personally think some of it is because of the torque of the 450 and they just chew up so much. They're getting steeper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wish that the whoops were more round.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I wish that they were a little smaller because I feel like at that stage you can race through them or if you, it's not do or die.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hate whoop competition, right? I feel like when they get too big, it's just basically, it's too much of a separator.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's, you know, it's a whoop competition. It's not a race. I like to have whoops where they can race, race through them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so when I was racing and even today, like, listen, I don't have a dog in the fight. I just, from a total race and perspective, I like when they're, how they were this weekend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It blows my mind, like, I'm just trying to think of different whoops, you know, like how you're saying, like, you, you liked different, different style whoops, one weekend steeper, closer together, one weekend bigger, rounder, like to me, man, I just, I always liked them as close to the same as, as possible. I don't know. Yeah, I guess to each his own. That's where you, you, you and I. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You want them to build them that way this year? Like, like just from a fan's perspective, you'd rather see them different every single weekend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good stuff, you uhm, movin', movin' on to Daytona, little preview action.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I know we, we talked about the big three, uh, at the beginning. Yeah, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like for me, and I, I think that we're similar in this regard is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just feel like towards like this point on in Daytona, if you can set the tempo for the last half of the season, I feel like that's where


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Guys up until now, they think that they have a shot at the championship. And if you don't have a relatively good finish at Daytona,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Basic, you know, it things start to sink in and like, okay, crap. I've run out of time. It's going to take a miracle at this point, unless you are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In this year's situation where you got Eli and Coop with all within five points, okay? That's why I think, you know, guys like yourself, me, you know, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] MC back in the day and where we're at now is because we know like, okay, these three guys are going to go the distance and the other, and the other guys behind them, it's just, it's going to take a miracle. So that's why I think that, and I feel like the true title contenders, um, are,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They rise to the top of the latter part of the season. That's why, that's why I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey, although I know like you're saying Eli has the, has the advantage, right? But do you go back to last year?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, like, duty almost won the damn thing. What, Macklerath got in his way? Like, with two laps to go maybe? Three?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going to Daytona, I think it's that time we take a little view of the track map. Very similar to last year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I love this start. RV comes into a pretty good radius, not super, super tight. Obviously inside is going to be the key, but then a gnarly rhythm section right here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, beach sand right here. And this, it gets pretty tight right here. Everyone keep your eye out. Inside, outside. This was a key part right here at this moment. That, that tight 180. Then they come up underneath the tunnel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, pretty self-explanatory, uh, section right here. Hard to do much there as far as the, uh, because of the footing constraints that we have. And then a super cross section and a super cross whoops, Ryan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and certainly like, I mean, if this track, very similar to last year, last year was epic racing, especially with that, uh, that split lane right there before the finish. I mean, it'd be awesome if it came down to the last lap before the checkered flag. And you know, the split lane was the determining factor of who wins the Daytona Supercross to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of fun to see, but, uh, to your point, you, you hit some, some great points that I, that I didn't even think about. It just kind of, kind of comes naturally. Yeah. That track is always changing and, uh, they're going to have their hands full. Hey. And then last on Daytona, a couple of things. So 250. I think people better watch out for J-Mart, bro. The dark, the dark horse. Dude, I'm telling you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I, I think, dude, I, uh, everyone, dude, if you're a Batman, like I'm not a Batman, uh, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody better keep their eye on him. That's all I'm saying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I gotta give you some mad props here. I'm looking at our man, Clinton Fowler from Fowler's Facts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's pretty insane, dude. I mean, Eli's got 67%. You guys smoked me in Stanton. Stanton's got 50%. Uh, that's his win percentages. I'm at 63%.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think, dude, I think you are, I think you, your win percentage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Supercross is the best, I think too, the highest, I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We do, we do. Hey uh, speaking of Daytona, be sure to watch it this weekend exclusively.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, on Peacock, race day live starts at 1 30 PM.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I always like race day live also kind of gets you amped up. You can see who's, uh, who's doing what, how guys are feeling. Keep in mind though, Daytona is gonna, as you know, RV, it's going to change, uh, nonstop. But, uh, so once, uh, RDL is over, like I said, switch back, switch over to Peacock should be really good. And, uh, we'll see what happens. But, um, also while I'm getting some mentions in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Starting this week, I think that our listeners and watchers will like this. Starting this week, leave a question on our TIDAL24 Instagram page.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll choose one next week to receive a free quad lot case. All of our partners are going to do giveaways, uh, each week, which is really fun through, uh, through our Instagram and submit your questions, whether they're, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Negative, positive, we want you to be open and transparent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we'll give you, we'll give you the feedback. Thanks everyone for listening and watching.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thanks to our partners, United Motorsports, for coming on board.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Foxo USA, Quadlock, some great companies, check them out on the interwebs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Title 24 is off and running. It's been great, hasn't it, RV? Pretty fun?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast or watch it on demand at the Motorsports on NBC YouTube page.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Welcome to Title 24 presented by Envy Sports. I'm Ricky Carmichael. We've got Ryan Villapoto as well as my co-host. Before we get going, we got to thank Foxo USA, Quadlot Case.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And always, United Motorsports, we appreciate you guys. And, uh, RV, let's get right into it. You guys saw the T's right there. Red flag. Absolute, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Chaos, and dude, I kind of feel for Deegan, that was, he was rolling, I think he had that one in the bag, dude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, totally, and I've, I've never personally been in that situation, so I don't like, I don't know how I would handle it other than like what you said, it's tough, right? Your goggles are pretty much smoked at that point because you're, you're almost halfway. I think they're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 30 seconds from throwing the halfway, uh, the halfway flag.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, how, how Hayden got screwed and a couple guys got screwed. Basically the guys that were up front for the most part, they got closed on the restart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the rule is different than Supercross. That's why, that's why they re-racked it. Okay. Completely different. And I think if it gets to the 20 minute mark, it's, it's, uh, it's known as a complete race. So they had made 20 minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It would have been the race would have been completed. However, they didn't see what I'm saying. So, uh, they would have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's right, that's right. And, and to the best of my knowledge, and please don't quote me on this, uh, people tuning in, watching and listening, uh, I do not believe they do a staggered start again like they do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, and, and, and I know, like, everyone's getting beat up, you know, Promote Across Championship and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And all that, but now, now with the partnership that's between, uh, MX Sports and Feld and then now together working with the SMX World Championship Series, what I think will happen after this weekend is I think there'll be a culmination between it and, uh, I, I suspect


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, that, uh, that, that rule will be tweaked. There'll be some more continuity between, uh, both series, uh, so that basically it's, it's the same rules. So, uh, yeah, I mean, listen, man, they're, they're, it's hard to get it right all the time. Yes, I think a staggered start like they do in Supercross would have been perfect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we played it over and over, and in my mind...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, I want to get your, I want to get your thought because I said it on the broadcast. Deegan goes down, comes into the first corner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, what's your thoughts on that? Rider error, bat, wrong place, wrong time, what do you think?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I think, I think. And hey, lesson learned. He's a rookie. He's figuring out. He's learned a lot. I mean, we've, they interviewed, they've interviewed his dad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, I'm, I just feel like he's making those steps. We've talked about it enough now, like since Washugal, I think, I think he's one of the best, the fastest guys I think he's made that next step. So little mistakes like that. Yeah. He definitely got in a little hot, ran in the back of the aisle, goes down. Then dude, Justin Cooper rode good. Like he, he withheld the pressure from Hunter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And I think he's strong enough. I mean, like you said, he came in midstream. He didn't start the series. I think he came in at, in Houston.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the whoops are pretty gnarly this year. He, I think you take away the whoops. I know at Supercross you're not taking away whoops, but coming in mid, mid, mid season.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whoops were gnarly, especially at Houston. He held his own. He did well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, dude, he's solid. He's gonna have to show me some stuff if he's gonna be up on the podium all the time, but dude, he's one of those guys. He gets good starts. Like you said, his regular pace, his comfort pace is good enough anywhere from fifth to tenth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Group are pretty close in speed. I mean, all the guys are close, but those, it's like a musical chair. It's a lot like the 250 class, I feel like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I think he'll be a good 450 guy. He's gonna, you know, it's gonna be hard to your point, 120%. It's a massive jump, but uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know who he's going to ride for. I hope he gets, I hope that the Monster Energy Star Yamaha team sticks by him. He's, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out with Tomac on there, with Coop on there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are they gonna have a third 450 guy? What's the budgets look like? And then, you know, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's basically between Ferandus and him, I would think, if they're gonna have a third guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like Ferrandus should probably ride for somewhere else. I think his time has expired at the team just for knowing the ins and outs and how long he's been there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he's talked about the bike. Yes, they have it better. Uh, I think that they should get Justin Cooper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Eli, I think that'd be a lot to manage. I think feeling would get hurt. I really do believe that. Uhm, because I, I feel like a guy like Ferandus who has won a premier championship, he's going to expect the same level of commitment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think he is pretty, in my opinion, and I could be completely wrong, I do not know this, even though I see those guys all the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like he just, he's an easy guy and a good guy to have on your team. He's low maintenance for the most part. He's going to get you good, solid results. And I think for a third guy and money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For what you could get him for, I think he'd be a good hire. So I would, I would take Justin Cooper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if he catches fire and he gets confidence, he's going to, he has the potential to be good and, and, and he's, he costs more money. So I think, I just think, you know, from a cap standpoint, I think they, I think they're good with, with, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With Cooper Webb, I think they're good with Eli and I think a third guy like Justin Cooper would be great. I think Justin Cooper has done great for that race team. So has Dylan Ferrandes, but I think for the money, I think it's the better buy. That's what I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's, let's, let's see here. So that was the first moto. Uhm, I hated to see, uh, Ryder DeFrancisco get balled up on that second start.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep. I think, you know, we've talked about this a couple times, RV. I feel like you have a couple of certain guys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That uhm, you know, they're looking to run up front and they just need that little.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, that one chance to run up there that will help them learn that pace and be like, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That guy was doing that. That's what we need to work on this week. And I just, he was in that moment before the red flag and then obviously the red flag, I think stole his chances to be in that position.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The intensity is freaking, yeaah, a level ahead of what you said. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another thing, the reason that is, and those guys, and like when you're in that fifth to tenth, like what you're talking about RV, dude, there's guys going everywhere. So you have to kind of ride a little cautious because the, you know, guys are moving from right to left. The next thing you know, they, you know, they hit your front wheel, then you crash.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was, I hated to see what happened after the red flag for him, but he rebounded, had a great one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also some notables, a massive shout out to some of the younger guys coming up, uh, Juju.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Beaumier, he did great. I love seeing young guys come out there. Finis did really well as well. And then Cochran.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Using the mix, uhm, you know, that 250 class is so tough. I, I say it, I think, I think if you can run top 10.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the 250 class, that's respectable. Uh, just because everyone is so close. So, I love seeing young kids come out there. So, they got, uh, that's cool. I feel like-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you come out and you're able to have success and run up there, run up front, uh, your first, your first race. Do you feel like that's a huge step forward and you kind of, okay, now he knows where that eighth, the 10th spot speed is. So do you expect that he would be able to do that next week? Say going into Ironman?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Second moto, dude, not, not a whole lot to talk about there. Hunter absolutely crushed it. You know, got a good start. He was upfront early, made a couple clutch pack, key passes early.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, yeaah, it was pretty, pretty self-explanatory, really nothing exciting in my opinion there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I didn't, I didn't realize what was Volans in front of his, uh, his, uh, teammate Tom Bial there, but we have SMX points and I want to go to SMX points.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really quick on the 250 and here you guys go right there. Hunter Lawrence, class of the field. He's got over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was it over a hundred and twenty point lead over Hayden Deegan, who is second in SMX, uh, combined points. RJ Hampshire is right there, but if you look from second to fourth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Deegan Hampshire Kitchen, that's close. That's really close. Uh, that's going to be a good battle. It's going to be tough for those guys, I will tell you. It's going to be tough for those guys to, uh, to beat Lawrence in the SMX championship because SMX, uh, just because he has such a big lead. However, with the double points in Chicago, triple points at LA.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That gives, that gives them guys an opportunity. And uh, here you go. Right there RV. There's the SMX Playoffs Overview. Three rounds. Charlotte, Chicago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Points are doubled each round. Two Motos each round. Highest score overall, so like Moto. Prize money per round, $404,000. Total points fund, $5.5.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, million, this is the first ever playoffs. It's going to be exciting to see, uh, myself personally. I'm excited to see, uh, all of the rounds. I, I think that the hybrid track.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The faster tracks, especially at ZMAX B-Way and, uh, Raceway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At, uh, in Charlotte and then, and then, uh, Chicago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those tracks being faster, you guys see right there, there's the, uh, there is the schedule. ZMAX, September 9th, Charlotte, uh, Chicagoland, September 16th, and then obviously the Coliseum, which I think will be more super cross-based.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think, I think Hayden Deegan's gonna be pretty quick at those. And the reason that I say that is because with the higher speed tracks, he hangs it out. I think you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think you need that type of writing style for those courses, what do you think?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it'll be exciting. Uh, so that's, that's going to be fun. Uh, shifting gears. Alright, let's get into the 450. So we all been talking about all the keyboard warriors and I, I know, I know what you and I thought thought would happen, but uh, so Jack gets a bad start.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? And he's behind all the main beat players, you name it. Sexton, Ferranes, he's behind all the guys that everyone, some of the keyboard warriors would say, and here's a replay of the start of the first moto, and he just kind of gets jammed up, like to what you were saying, RV, it's a very tricky corner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a Sexton on, on his right hand side and dude, he just starts, he just starts coming through and you know, we talked about how, or I say we.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody listening to Title 24 right now or, or, or who is watching it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Depending on if you're on motor sports on NBC's YouTube page or you're on Peacock or you're like I said, you're just listening to it on Amazon music.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What Ryan Villapoto just said right there is some of the best analysis and breakdown of a championship rider.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From a multi-time champion that you will ever hear. He is exactly right, and that is the difference.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a guy like Jett and then a guy that has had the success like Ryan has had, he knows, he knows that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? And that is you, you could have, you could not have broken that down any better. And that is the things that I know that our VCs, I see it's hard to show that and tell that on the broadcast. That's why we have this platform right here with the podcast. And it's just unbelievable. So we're going through that, right? And we got something. Oh, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This was, this was unreal. So, we got, uh, Ken Roxton's tweet. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kenny, Kenny posts this out. Says, Jed is amazing. No doubt. Extremely talented, mature racer. Yup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like they, they've never seen a good rider and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was good, like that tweet was good until the last sentence, right? He's like, why is everyone so mad, Naya?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said, well it's that last sentence that got you in trouble, right? You know, you know, you can't do anything on social media anymore without getting ripped apart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Super technical on the bike. Well, I feel like how you were Kenny, you're listening, watching.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, now this is the younger generation. So this is, this is you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, uhm, I wanted to touch on one thing before we get into Chase Sexton real quick. Uh, I wanted to talk, uh, expand on what you were saying and bringing out that great analysis on Jet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One thing he is really good at too is like they talked about how the track was one line, like, okay, well it didn't look like it was one line for Jet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jett is really good at taking alternate lines and when he takes those alternate lines, he doesn't lose time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is so hard to do. It's basically the same thing like you're talking about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That move passed AP. He two-wheel drift.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Into the, off the main line and then two wheel drift into that, into that rut on the inside of the sand rollers, but he didn't bury the bike in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he was still able to be fast by doing that, by taking an alternate line. And that's, that's tough to do. And I think if you want to get good in those situations, you have to practice those situations also.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What you thought about this, but if you had somebody at your farm that was a burn buster.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Still being able to run good laps when the, when the berms are pushed out and you're able to hop out of a rut early and still maintain that good lap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, he said he can't be doing that. He said that, uh, then after the second moto, so we got a little taste of what's to come. He reeled, uh, Jet in. Jet, I guess had some problems. I guess the flag was way then he wasn't able to triple. So for sure. We've seen it multiple times this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He dropped it right after Henry Hill. I couldn't tell it looked like he maybe hit neutral.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know what? We're gonna, uh, do the quad lock question of the week. It comes from N underscore J underscore P and he's a, uh, this person is a loyal listener or follower. So we appreciate you. We got one of his questions on the first ever title 24, but the quad lock question of the week is from NJP.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And since we're talking about Sexton, here's the, here's the question. It says, is Sexton going to be a genuine title threat in the future if he continues to drop the bike with the regular, uh, regularity he does at the moment? So do you think?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe he falls all the time. No, he's not going to be, he's not going to be. Uhm, let me, let me say something real quick. Uhm, last year this time, I think that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We all were saying he's going to be the favorite for 2023.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had every right to do that. He is dogging, uh, Eli in the, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, he won the Supercross Championship. He was in the right place at the right time. That's part of it. That's what you gotta do. Uhm, he had some help.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Calling a spade a spade, like RV said, he, he, he was, you know, gotta be in it to win it, but he, he had some luck, 120%. Fat, one of the fastest guys for sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He, he got straight up beat in pro motocross championship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's gonna have his hands full, so go for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I love Raj, uh, love working with him. If he's, if dude, if you're his guy and you are winning races and you are championship contender.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He will fall on the sword for you. He will do everything possible, like most great managers do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here's how I, I look at, here's how I think it's gonna play itself out. And I talked to someone at the Red Bull KTM, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think the tone and the vibe and the excitement of being on a new team is going to change drastically.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That feels like his, if he, Raj, and I'm sure he does, I'm sure he feels like that bike is every bit as good as the CRF450.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I haven't, I haven't ridden either of those bikes, so I'm not going to sit here and tell you which one I think is better because I haven't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know. Some of, both of them look good in areas, both of them look like they could be better in areas. So I don't know. Uh, all I do know is I feel like you get, like again, you get to round five and he's not dominant and he don't have a few race wins in there and he's not straight up winning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I think there'd be trouble on Front Street, dude. That's what I think. I hope that isn't the case. I hope that I'm wrong. Uh, but he's got, you know, he's gonna be dealing with the same dude, if not more. I mean, do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Calling the spade a spade. Yep. That's what we do on here. Yep. No, I... Popular amongst people, but that's the facts, dude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, and, and here's the thing. Now listen, I want, I want Chase to do well for a couple of things. Like now that I'm older, like I don't want him to be miserable. Like I want him to be happy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I want to see him in the pits and be like, dude, this is awesome. And, um, you know, like you're doing a great job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I do think where, where Raj will be really good at is little like how


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now he's having these tip overs. I think Raj will be straight up with him. He won't sugarcoat anything and it'd be like, dude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What in the hell are you doing? Like what happened here? What happened here? What happened here? He won't blame anything. If he, I feel like if chase tries to blame the bike, boom, he's going to nip it in the bud instantly. And I think it's going to force chase to have more personal responsibility.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And be accountable for the mistakes that he's making, which in turn should make Chase better and not continue to make those. So that's what that, that could be a fix for what is going on also, I think, because I do think that, uh, Raj will give them the truth serum.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in the long run, I feel like, you know, Chase might not like to hear that, but in the long run for Chase's career, I think that'll be better for him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, uh, that's enough. Uh, let's go to SMX, uh, points real quick on the 450, uh, and check that out. We have, we have a, we have a run of the SMX points. So there you go, RV. Jay Sexton has a command lead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, he's in great spot going into playoffs, so only one round left, uh, remaining of the Pro Motocross Championship. Keep your eye.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's where it's going to be fun to watch these double points and triple points in my opinion. And oh yeah, don't sleep on CooperWeb dude. I think he's got a massive chip on his shoulder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think, I think yeaah, dude, I, I think he's going to be something in the playoffs. I really, really do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this is what I love about the SMX playoffs, everyone listening and watching. I love the tubemoto format.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You are going to have to be consistent. And the guys that are consistent...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Especially in the double, double points and the triple points, you're gonna be able to accumulate a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And remember, because the races are shorter, there's a, there's a payout, there's a payout for the 450s right there. See, million bucks to win, 500 grand per second, 250 for third, 200 for fourth. Not a massive jump from third to fourth, but, uh, dude, if you could go that, that third to fifth on a Hyundai, that's a big, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's what I think. I think that, uh, dude, if you tip it over, the races are going to be a little bit shorter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're not going to have time to recover from a bad race. So if you chase Sexton, dude, if you drop it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then these guys are up front. Now remember, we're gonna have HooperWeb back.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anderson looks like he's starting to get a lot better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's gonna, it's gonna be a packed house. So you're not going to be able to march back up through the field if you drop it in a shorter race.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like that's a lot of money, especially if you're guys that, if, if some of these guys that have been injured trying to pick up a few extra bucks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they ain't going to be just rolling over and you brought up a great point. You're right, dude. Just like, just say from eight, say, say you're leading and you fall down, you get back up, you're in eighth place, right? Or no, you're like 15th. So you crash on lap three and you're back in 15th. Yes. So your point catching back up is going to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Massive thanks to United Motorsports. Appreciate that guys. If you're in the Kentucky, Ohio area, they got six locations. Fabulous company. Check out their website, united motorsports.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, fantastic, uh, love the people over there. So, uh, they got it going on growing quickly. So, uh, quad lock case, quad lock case.com. Talk about them all the time. Uh, these guys, they have a great product. Fabulous. Everyone that, uh, we have hooked up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, they love it. I got a text the other day from one of my friends in Tallahassee who says, dude, the quadlux stuff is really nice. And then of course, Boxo USA, boxousa.com, that's their site.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, some of the best, uhm, best tools in the business, uh, functionality, uh, the toolboxes are cool because, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have this, uh, foam, right? And the foam inserts. So your tools go in there perfectly. Everything's organized. It's trick, uh, promo code is title 24. That's 10% off of all purchases site wide. So make sure you, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Save a little bit of cheddar, 10% off, like I said, title 24, uh, site wide on all of our partners websites. So make sure you do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, before we get into the Iron Man preview and get you out of here, RV, uh, got a big weekend on, uh, NBC. There you go. Right there. SMX insider every Thursday, as you know, at 2 p.m. That's on YouTube.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With Jason Wygant and Jason Thomas. Then Friday, NASCAR Xfinity, 7 PM Eastern. That's at Daytona. That'll be on USA Network.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 7pm Eastern Time NASCAR Cup Series. I'll be driving the Pace car. That'll be live on NBC.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Worldwide Technology Raceway, 3 p.m. again, Eastern.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, 3.30 PM Eastern on NBC. Great, great weekend of racing on NBC. I'm looking forward to go into, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Going for, uh, Daytona. Trying not to stuff that, uhm, pace car in the fence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It'd be pretty cool, I'd get some, uh, get some ratings. Uh, real quick, Iron Man, what we got, do what you think, pretty self-explanatory.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bubble Riders in the 250, uh, Styles Robertson is right on that edge. So if you're Styles Robertson, you got to get out there. And then the guys that are above the cut line, make sure you, you hang onto it. Execution, good start. So the bubble, the bubble spots are going to be fun to watch. I'm sure you can check it out on smx.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have all that stuff there, so that'd be a lot, uh, a lot of fun to see. Forkner, he's outside looking in after his race lap this past weekend, which he did really well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I think he'll be able to, I think he'll get in on points, so that'll be, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That'll be fun to watch. RV, I want you to tell everyone on Title 24 where you're going today and what you're doing so we can tune in and see where we're going. Yeah, that's right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What a special opportunity to see all you guys and legends and you know, like you think about those people over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, they can rip. Well, good luck, uh, another good show. Uh, thank you everyone for listening. We appreciate you guys. Uh, you guys are incredible fans as always. Thanks for commenting and liking and all that fun stuff. Remember you can always check us out live, uh, on Peacock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's always our On Demand on Peacock or the Motorsports on NBC's YouTube page, of course. And then, uh, if you just want to listen, make sure you go to Amazon Music. Uh, just go to amazon.com slash NBC Sports to get all the podcast shows.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you can get, uh, and you can listen to us if you don't have the availability to watch. Again, appreciate, uh, United Motorsports quad lock case.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, Boxo USA for being a partner in RV. We will find someone to fill in next week and you will be back. Uh, it will be before, let's see here, before the first inaugural SMX.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, there's honestly not much I can really say. They're pretty much gonna do whatever they want at this point. I feel like I'm in the right, I feel like I was in the right away. Dean was down. With honestly on his bike and riding away, I rolled the double, the first one, and then I jumped the second one where there's nobody down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was a little bit confused on what to do, uhm, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the end of the day, they're going to make their decisions on what they think is right, and I feel like I was in the right of way, but I guess we'll see. I don't think it was going to change the outcome of the race at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like I pulled away from the guys behind me even after that. So, I was just, uh, yeaah. Like I said, it was a good race and not gonna let that put a damper on the vibe. I'm pretty happy with how tonight went and got momentum back on my side.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To be honest, I'm like a massive sports fan, so when I sit here and think about all the things I'd love to talk about, there's loads and loads of football stuff, but I have to remember this is from my Numberphile audience and most of them aren't sports fans, so gotta like rein it in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Today's guest is a mathematician currently completing his PhD.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] MIT. But, call up John Urschel's CV and there are a few lines that, well, might catch your eye. That's because he played three seasons as a professional footballer in the NFL, lining up in 40 games for the Baltimore Ravens. And before that, he was a star college footballer at Penn State.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But throughout his athletic career, John's continued with mathematical study and research.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And after retiring from the NFL at the ripe old age of 26, he's now focused full time on mathematics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I went back in time and met you as a kid. Yes. What do you like?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, if I'd met you, I would be more likely to think that you're a future mathematician than a future footballer?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So John, I think it's a bit of a cliche or a bit of a trope that if a kid is really smart, but you know, all kids want to be sports stars, don't they? That's like a dream and they have some aspiration to play professional sport.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They'll often get like a guiding hand from a teacher saying, you know, it's really important that you use your talents academically because sport is such a gamble and you want to have a good job when you grow up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Were you getting that as you got more into football, but were clearly a pretty good student. Were your teachers saying, Hey John, I don't think football is the way to go. You're so good at puzzles and maths. Maybe this is the way to go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So as you went through college and obviously you were like a really good college footballer, were you staying on top of your academics because you loved it or because this was like your insurance policy if you, you know, broke your leg or something?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was it hard to have the headspace for both to keep?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On top of football at the level you want it to be and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be like, you know, doing research and learning all this new stuff in the world of math.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So was the math something you would wear, like, on your sleeve and be proud of and like, hey, I'm the football math guy and like that makes me a novelty and interesting or was it something you kind of kept a bit quiet?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This might be a stupid question, but did you ever feel like your kind of mathy, puzzly brain ever brought anything to your football?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So at college, do you ever feel like you came to a crossroads? Like as it became clear that the NFL was possible and you could take football to the next level, did it ever feel like a choice? Oh, I'm going to have to give up the math to take football to the next level. Or did you always think you could keep both balls in the air at once?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have you ever felt like, you know, you didn't quite reach the level you could have in football because of math, or you aren't quite where you could be as a mathematician because of football? Like, is there any regret there or anything?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I'm imagining a lot of people listening won't be particularly familiar with American football. You were an offensive lineman. Yes. Which is, I understand that from the bit I watch is kind of part battering ram part kind of blocker obstacle sort of thing. It doesn't strike me as like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The position on the field you would first go to to look for the intellectual, the mathematician. Is that unfair?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's not just prescribed from on high and you're just following orders. There's a lot of fast decision-making. Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've watched a lot of American football on TV, or a reasonable amount for a guy in England. What's playing the game and being out there on the line like compared to watching it on TV? If you wanted to help me understand what the difference is between being an actual player and being just like some chump watching it on TV, how would you do it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That brings us to probably something I know you get asked about a lot when we talk about the hits and the violence of football and you're this smart guy with this-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What was your thinking about that as this becomes a bigger and bigger issue and you're a mathematician and you're thinking, you know, maybe my future down the line is going to be using my brain. And there's all this publicity about how these hits might be doing some damage to my brain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's going on here? Is this playing a role in your retirement or is there pressure coming on you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] John, I feel like you're a special case though, I mean, you're almost like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A super talented pianist risking their fingers, you're not just like another player, you're a guy who has this brain, which could play and hopefully will play a big part in your future. Are you getting any extra pressure? Are any mathematicians you're working with saying to you, hey John, I think you've got a bit of talent here, you sure you want to be?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know how much trash talk there is between players and the NFL. I would have imagined there's quite a lot, like trying to get in each other's heads during a game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You didn't have big like defensive guys saying look out for that pretty little math brain of yours, you're about to take a hit. No, no such thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ah, they missed an opportunity there, I reckon. They missed their chance, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And let me ask you this then. I'm going to give you a choice here. Okay. Fields medal or Superbowl winner's ring? Fields medal. What if I sweeten the deal and say fields medal or Superbowl ring with first ever offensive lineman to win MVP in the game? Fields medal, man. Fields medal. Wow. I thought you'd think about that more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But what about this whole thing about the camaraderie and the team and all that matters is working as a team towards winning something and like, you've dedicated lots of your years to football and to reach the pinnacle of that would be something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I couldn't think of a lesser award that would have been a fair contest, so I'll know for next time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's it been like going from being this guy who's on TV and in stadiums and people are screaming and like, you know, you're the big guy in the room when you walk in, cause you're a football star and people want your autograph and stuff to being a PhD student, which like, you know, is considered the lower ranks of life in university. Oh, it's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think you're having an authentic PhD experience? Because you're always going to be that guy who, I'll see that guy over there, the really big one, he played in the NFL, like he's a bit of a big deal. You're never just going to be the normal mathematician, are you? You're always going to have that novelty about you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're gonna have to work that a bit harder to get legitimacy amongst your peers when you move up to that professor level, because mathematics is like any field of endeavour, there's like jealousy and politics and that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you imagine that a lot of other mathematicians may think, oh yeah, okay, here's Mr. Football, has he really got it where it counts mathematically? Like, do you feel you're gonna have to go a little bit harder to prove yourself because of that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you did have one of those people, John. I was imagining like football was your savior and the opportunities that football gave you took you there, but you also still had that one-off mentor, did you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's an incredibly complicated issue that I wouldn't even know where to start talking about, but do you think the problem for talented young African American mathematicians is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mainly coming from on high or is it like a cultural problem amongst themselves where it's just not an aspiration yet?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you ever wonder about your role as that messenger? Because obviously, as you say, you've been given this megaphone because of your athletic ability. You've been given the opportunity to speak to these people, but at the same time, it kind of undermines your argument because people can say, what's easy for you to say, John? You're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So let me ask you perhaps one of the most difficult questions you could be asked. Can you explain to us what your area of research is in an accessible way?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in your field, we were talking about the Fields Medal earlier, if you're gonna win the Fields Medal, and I think you've only got 13 years or so left, what's the holy grail? What's the thing that someone like you could crack that would make you big man on campus? That's a good question. First of all, I'm not winning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you look forward in your career, like 10, 20 years or so, and you think about what's ahead, what excites you the most? Like, is it the papers you'll publish? Is it possible PhD students you'll supervise? What's the thing you look forward to that just makes you think, I can't wait, I can't wait to get there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I heard you talking about that at a talk you gave last weekend. I thought that was really interesting. Like failure is just not an option in football and yet it's a really positive thing in mathematics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have no specific questions, just were you into that from when you were young? Did you get into that later?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have no aspirations though, like your competitive side hasn't infiltrated chess, you're happy just doing it for fun. You don't want to be like a certain level or a certain ranking or number or something?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have not read it yet. I haven't managed to get my hands on a copy because as we record, it's not even released yet. But by the time people are listening to this, it will be released and something they can get their hands on. Mind and Matter? Is that the title?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I see you've co-written the book. You have a co-author. Yeaah. That's my partner. It is. Louisa Thomas, and she's a writer. It's a family affair.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So how does the writing process work when you write a book with your partner? What does that look like?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're handling the math and you just splat everything on a page and then she just has pulled it into like a narrative shape or?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. How would you describe the book for people who are gonna read it? Are they gonna get lots of math? Are they gonna get lots of football? I have no idea what to expect. Yeah, they're gonna get-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So someone reading this, I mean, obviously you want them to come away with multiple things, but are you wanting them to come away having learned math or just like to be inspired or just learn a bit more about who you are? What would you describe the main purpose of this book? Why are you putting it out there in the world?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nice, just sneaking a bit of medicine in the dog food. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can I get you on the record with one last deal as well? Yeah. If I make my way over to MIT sometime and bring over some brown paper, you think you'll talk me through a bit of mathematics for a couple of videos as well? Absolutely, I would love to. Alright then. Well, seeing you've agreed to that, I will for one more time tell people that they must check out Mind and Matter by John Urschel, Louisa Thomas,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's going to be worth a read. I will include links like in all the usual places and stuff like that for people who want to check it out. But I want to say thanks so much for your time, John, and it's been really interesting. Yeah, thanks for having me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For more about John's work at MIT, and a bit more about his football career too, I'll include some links in the show notes. And of course I'll also link to his book, Mind and Matter, A Life in Math and Football. It's got a really great cover. There's a big burly John pictured on the front, but he's covered in chalk and standing in front of a blackboard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Numberphile podcast is made possible by the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute, that's in Berkley, California, and this episode was supported by the audio engineering company My Sound, who are also based in Berkley. You can find out more about both MSRI and My Sound


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Support us on Patreon, maybe check out merchandise like t-shirts and mugs and posters and stuff by going to our webpage, that's Numberphile.com. Thanks so much for your time and hope to catch you again soon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cliff is currently hanging the microphone from a piece of string from the ceiling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm Brady Harren and the guest on today's Numberphile podcast, if we ever get a set up, is Cliff Stoll. Now people who watch Numberphile videos might recognise Cliff as this guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The man with thousands of mathematical glass sculptures stored in the crawlspace under his house in Oakland.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Under my house is my little forklift robot. And you might even remember seeing this, he retrieves them with a remarkable homemade remote controlled forklift.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But as you're about to learn, there's more to Cliff than the wild haired, super enthusiastic guy you've seen on YouTube. It's a story of KGB funded computer hackers, a long lost school teacher,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And some predictions about the future of the internet, which ended up being, well...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe a little bit embarrassing, but let's start at the beginning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Were you brainy? Like were you clever at school? Would I have said, oh, he's, he's going to be an astronomer or a mathematician or an engineer one day, that guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So your astronomy mentor was a mushroom expert.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Looking back now with the hindsight, like, you know, the wisdom of being an adult who tries to mentor young people yourself, what do you think he saw in that boy who came into his room? What did he see that made him say, I'm going to give this young lad more of my time?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did becoming a professional astronomer, now you're working as an astronomer having done all your studies, how did that compare to what you imagined it would be when you were like a kid looking at Galilean moons, like was the reality of being a working astronomer


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] More amazing, less amazing, disappointing, surpass expectations. What was it like?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What, you had a stopwatch and you were just like buzzing beep every 43 seconds?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you tell that story to make me think, oh the drudgery, or was that a thrill for you because you were helping this celebrity astronomer?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, in 1986, something happened that would change Cliff's life. And it was the start of something which would actually change the way everyone used the internet. At this point, working at the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cliff's supervisor asked him to investigate a minor accounting error, just nine seconds of computer time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Computer security just, well, it wasn't really a thing. Cliff launched his own investigation. He set traps. He monitored the mysterious intruder, eventually tracking him down to West Germany.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It turns out this guy was stealing and selling American military secrets to the KGB. Cliff's Adventures brought him into contact with people at the FBI, CIA.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cliff was famous. He's still kind of famous for this. And he wrote a best-selling book about the whole caper. It's called The Cuckoo's Egg.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't care, you're hot today. Tell me you didn't give him the deal. You didn't give him the bulldo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you didn't write the book in that dry method that you just outlined a moment ago, did you? I sure did. Did you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But Cuckoo's Egg, the book is not, is a bit more like, got a bit more narrative to it, doesn't it? It's a bit more exciting than this is what a computer is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you like the moments of fame where you're on the road and meeting VIPs and telling your story to big crowds? Like it must've been a really interesting experience. It must've given you opportunities you would never have had otherwise. No?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why Klein bottles? Why has that become your thing? What is it about them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's jump forward to the mid 1990s now and Cliff, still famed for catching a hacker, writes another book called Silicon Snake Oil.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's skeptical about the internet. He also writes a short essay on the topic, and that gets published in Newsweek. It's this essay, about ten years later, which is dredged up by bloggers on the website Boing Boing. They poke fun at Cliff's misguided predictions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Although, I've gotta say another 13 years have since passed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And some of Cliff's other predictions ended up being somewhat prescient. Anyway, I'm not going to read the whole essay now, but I am going to read a few chunks of it. I've included parts that are going to, well, maybe slightly embarrass Cliff. But in fairness, I've also included some of his predictions, which when you consider they're nearly 24 years old now, well, I think some of them are rather insightful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The truth is no online database will replace your daily newspaper. No CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher and no computer network will change the way government works. Consider today's online world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Usenet, a worldwide bulletin board, allows anyone to post messages across the nation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Your word gets out leapfrogging editors and publishers. Every voice can be heard cheaply and instantly. The result? Every voice is heard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The cacophony more closely resembles citizens' band radio, complete with handles, harassment and anonymous threats. When most everyone shouts, few listen. How about electronic publishing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Try reading a book on disc. At best, it's an unpleasant chore.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The myopic glow of a clunky computer replaces the friendly pages of a book. And you can't tote that laptop to the beach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yet Nicholas Negroponte, director of MIT Media Lab,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What the internet hucksters won't tell you is that the internet is one big ocean of unedited data, without any pretense of completeness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lacking editors, reviewers or critics, the internet has become a wasteland of unfiltered data. You won't know what to ignore and what's worth reading.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're told that multimedia will make schoolwork easy and fun. Students will happily learn from animated characters while taught by expertly tailored software.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who needs teachers when you've got computer aided education?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These expensive toys are difficult to use in classrooms and require extensive teacher training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then there's cyber business, where promised instant catalog shopping, just point and click for great deals. We'll order airline tickets over the network, make restaurant reservations and negotiate sales contracts. Stores will become obsolete.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, how come my local mall does more business in an afternoon than the entire internet handles in a month? Even if there were a trustworthy way to send money over the internet, which there isn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Human contact. Discount the fawning techno-burble about virtual communities. Computers and networks isolate us from one another. A network chat line is a limp substitute for meeting friends over coffee.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cliff, anyone who spends time with you or sits in your office like I am now can tell that you're a guy who does a lot of stuff and makes a lot of stuff. I have to know though, how does Cliff's style waste time? What's your vice? What's your time waster?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's the thing you do and you kick yourself and go, oh, that was a waste of time. I shouldn't, I probably shouldn't have watched that TV show.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, the end of your time. Yeah, and there's an epithet. What should I call you? Like, would you say-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But w-would I say Cliff Starr was an astronomer? Cliff Starr was an engineer? Like I would describe myself as...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A journalist maybe? Or a video creator? What's your like description? What do I call you? If someone says, oh, I'm seeing my friend-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I like that. Let's go with that. Cliff Stahl, the jury is still out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll include a few links to bits and pieces including Cliff's Klein Bottle Business, which is a very entertaining website in itself, in the notes that accompany this episode.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd like to thank the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute for its support of Numberphile. And this episode was made possible by Maya Sound, the audio engineering company based not far from where Cliff is in the Bay Area. Maya Sound aren't here to sell anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they're always doing some pretty cool research and projects and you can go read about them anytime on their website, myersound.com. Again, I'll include a link.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lastly, and hopefully not least, you can find out more about Numberphile, maybe even support us on Patreon by going to numberphile.com. Thank you so much for listening and hope to speak to you all again pretty soon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hi folks, Lee Diffie from NBC Sports here. If you truly enjoyed what you just watched, you can get more news, interviews, and highlights by subscribing to the Motor Sports on NBC YouTube page. You can get it all, so go for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let me sell your book! You're famous! You're hot! Front page New York Times! Merckley Astronomer!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the voice of John Horton Conway. He died this week at the age of 82.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He wasn't just one of the great mathematicians of his generation, he was also one of the great characters. I interviewed Conway for a series of Numberphile videos back in 2014. You'll hear a few clips from those videos today, including a few that weren't used originally, playing them for the first time here. I'll also be speaking to other people about their thoughts on Conway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] First, it's the woman who wrote the book on him, quite literally. Siobhan Roberts was Conway's biographer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did only meet him once. Even from that one meeting, I can tell he would be a really hard guy to pin down. I imagine at times he would have treated you like a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like a, like a, he was a cat with a mouse and would enjoy messing with you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] David Eisenbud's director of the Mathematical Sciences Research Institute in Berkeley, California.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what was John Conway like in person then if you would have a coffee with him or when he wasn't like, you know, playing the room?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Physicist Tony Padilla's a regular on Numberphile and like John Conway, was born in Liverpool and went on to study at Cambridge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do Scousers know who he is? Like, is he identified as a famous Scouser?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have you ever dipped into his actual mathematics, or is it not really something that's crossed your path?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You obviously spend loads of time with lots of mathematicians. Do you have any idea what it was about him that made him different to the others?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you feel like he was happy with where he was towards the end? Like, was he satisfied?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm Brady Harren, and you've been listening to the Numberphile Podcast. You can find out more about all our podcasts and videos at numberphile.com.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nils had a long and distinguished career in mathematics, the majority at the famed Bell Labs. But the thing he's probably best known for is a collection of numbers that started as a side project, but turned into the online encyclopedia of integer sequences, the OEIS.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This incredible resource is so closely associated with Neil that many people refer to it simply as Sloan's. Now here on Numberphile we've made plenty of videos over the years that refer to Sloan's menagerie of sequences.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But in more recent times, we've been lucky enough to have Neil himself as a regular guest on the channel. Between filming sessions, we recorded this podcast among the countless papers, scrolls and numbery treasures filed away in his New Jersey attic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Neil, we're in your house and at the moment we're in, what, what do you call this room? Is this like your study or your- Yea, it's my study.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's so much stuff here, there's books and folders and binders, and it feels kind of chaotic, but anytime you seem to want to get your hands on something, you seem to get it straight away, so there's obviously some method to the madness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you find it easy to work in sort of this, would you call it cluttered or is that the right word or like very full environment?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, well before we get to Bell Labs, because that's obviously something I want to ask you about, let's find out where it all started for you. First of all, where were you born and where were you a boy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] During this post-war period, or even maybe even the end of the war, are these strong memories for you? Do you remember it well, or is it all lost in the mists of time for, as a boy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what was your education like at this point? Like your early education? Was it still a normal school education?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ah, you missed the best bit. And then Melbourne became home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Teraugen, my best friend who I do another podcast with is from Teraugen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At this point, like, were you considering yourself to be an Australian or did you consider yourself to be an English lad who'd moved to Australia? How were you identifying yourself at this point?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what was your relationship with school and academia at this point? Were you starting to develop into who you are now or?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You went to university in Melbourne as well. Does that mean you were in Melbourne for the Melbourne Olympics? Yes, absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if I'd gone back in time to like the end of high school and the start of university and I'd said to Neil,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What do you want to do? Like where do you, what job do you want? What career are you hoping to get? How would you have answered me?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if you've got a poor memory or you don't like talking about it, but you don't sound like you're this sort of overenthusiastic, overachieving, ambitious youngster, and yet you're writing to US universities. Well, that was the one thing I did. Right. Yeah. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's really my main love. So how did you get from Australia to the US? Were you still ships at this point or were you flying now? I flew. Stopped in Fiji. Like are you doing a doctorate there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How was the culture change coming from Australia to the US?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I can imagine. So you're assistant professor at Cornell in what department?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, here we go. It's now in my hand. Principles of Neurodynamics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was there a lot of call for error correcting codes at this point? Cause the sort of the technology was evolving in that direction.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At this point, Bell Labs, I imagine is this, this mythical place full of all these incredible people who are like gods coming from above to come and talk to you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, you can't sum up 40 years, can you, in just a few sentences, but just give me some idea of what it was like to be one of the Bell Labs people at this time. Like this dream time, isn't it? Like this amazing, all this amazing stuff happening around you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the arc of your time at Bell Labs, what would I say you were doing? What was your main, or did it change every few years? It would change all the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the time you finished there, what were you doing? What did your area of expertise become by then?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's talk about the online encyclopedia. Which wasn't online in those days.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Next to the Perceptron book. It's called, Lengths of Cycle Times in Random Neural Networks, Neil James Alexander Sloan, 1967. Gold embossed writing on the black cover there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Books. We will include a link to Neil's thesis.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Neil, at this point, when you're starting to collect these sequences, starting your own private collection, were you only targeting sequences that you thought might be useful for your neural network research? Like that one could be handy for my trees and my research and that, or did you just straight away go, I want everything?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In these early days, were you thinking, you know, I'm going to keep these until I finish my PhD? Were you thinking of the future or were you just thinking this is going to be a tool that's going to help me become Dr. Sloan?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this was obviously well before the days of sort of the internet and mass communication. How was word getting out in the 1960s that this guy called Neil Sloan at Cornell was even doing this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What would those just send you like a piece of paper with like, you know, 30 numbers and tell you this is the Fred Jones sequence and this is how it's generated and you'd think-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what was this starting to look like? You mentioned punch cards, were there like folders and books? How are these, this disparate family of numbers you were being sent starting to be turned into something that was going to become a formal collection?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did this collection serve its original purpose? Did it end up being particularly useful for your research and your PhD?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pointed to me. Just that they're just looking for business. They're just looking for a book that might sell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was published not as a book of curios, but as like a research resource or?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was just a collection, presumably in your office.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in addition to having a reputation as the guy you should send your sequences to, you had also been the guy to contact if you needed sequence help.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's growing and growing through the seventies, more and more is coming in. Help me understand how it evolves and get me close to the internet. Like, you know, what are the, what are the next steps?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So with the first book in the 70s and then the second book in the early 90s,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who's buying this book and what are they using it for?