[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Remember, he did the radio repair program at Sing Sing and he worked on, like, on and off in radio and television repair once he was paroled.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if he couldn't cover the rent, Ophelia would just send him money. Yeah, of course she would. Yeah. And now at this point, he's really going further into his interest in photography that he started in high school, which I mentioned. Yeah, you did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, this, this gal was just waiting in line at a diner and this man came up and said, you need to be in pictures. You know, like it's just, this was that time. Literally. So during this time period, those who felt so inclined and couldn't find that kind of work yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But still wanted to be in the realm of some kind of entertainment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, nobody really wanted to do it, but it would pay the bills.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So at nearly 30 years old in 1947, he had, Harvey had not had a consensual sexual encounter at this point. Wow. He's almost 30. He has not seen a woman nude of their own volition.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's nuts. And let that sink in. He's never full blown raped anybody at this point that we know of. Not that we know of. Every encounter he has had sexually


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, that's wild. Isn't that wild to think about? Heartbreaking for those women. So heartbreaking. Now in Los Angeles, all he had to do


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was call one of those modeling agencies or place an ad in the back of a magazine looking for models.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And women would come to him. So the photography of it all actually worked his benefit for a few reasons. One being that it was easy to put an ad in there, call a modeling agency and say you're a photographer. It also made him seem legit and trustworthy even as he creeped.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly, and for someone so uncomfortable and self-conscious in the presence of women, the camera was also a nice little barrier between himself and them. It kind of gave him this like control feeling without having a weapon in his hands.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He wasn't just content to hide behind the camera and watch Naked Woman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so in summer of 1957, he decided to escalate, and boy did he.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Harvey's first target was Lynn Lykles, a woman he photographed a few months earlier while he was posing as Johnny Glenn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A professional commercial photographer. Was he like, hey, by the way, that's not my name. No, he just kid, that was what he pretended his name was. And Harvey's plan was to show up at Liko's apartment


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He'd even purchased a .32 caliber pistol just in case.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the evening of July 13th he drove to her apartment and knocked on her door.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, what he didn't think about was maybe she doesn't live alone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the blonde in the photos was 19 year old Judy Ann Dull, the girl's other roommate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was also a sometimes pinup model. She is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Judy was also out when, um, Judy wasn't in, like, wasn't in the apartment. She was out when Harvey had arrived. So the roommate gave him the phone number and was like, you should just call another time and maybe they'll want to work with you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By 1957, let's talk about, uhm, Judy for a minute. By 1957, Judy had been modeling for a while.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, she had actually already at 19 been married and divorced.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because, and at the time she was in like a very intense custody battle for her one year old daughter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Harvey had come unexpectedly to the apartment, uhm, at one point saying his name was Johnny Glenn and that her roommates knew him like he had come back to the apartment. And he was saying, you know, he needed someone for a rush job. It was a pulp novel cover and she would be perfect for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She just had a feeling probably that like, you know, I think this is the guy that my roommate described as kind of a creep, I'm not sure, like she's seen a lot of photographers, but I just, I don't know, I think this is the one. But Harvey kind of pushed a little, saying it was an emergency, and if she wasn't interested, could she just get one of the other girls on the phone, because he'll take one of them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is when she was like, fine. When she let him into the apartment. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, when he arrived, he told Judy that a friend's photo studio had actually just become available unexpectedly. And he was like, would you mind switching the location instead of being at your apartment? Could we go to the studio?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she really didn't want to because she was like, no, I feel safe in my apartment because I have two roommates that could come in at any time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know about that, like you didn't say we were going somewhere, but the money was really good that he was saying. Of course that was. And she needed to work as much as possible to get money together for the custody hearing, so she agreed and left the apartment in Harvey's Black Dodge Coronet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They ended up not going to a studio, but going to Harvey's apartment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Instead he just placed her onto a chair and told her that he was going to keep her tied up while he quote, had some fun with her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, unfortunately we only get Harvey's side of the story in a lot of these.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But his version that he told detectives is that he claimed once he made those intentions clear, he removed the gag from Judy's mouth and told her he'd kill her if she yelled. She nodded in agreement. And according to him, Judy told him that she was a nymphomaniac and that she wouldn't cause any trouble for him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I bet you didn't hit her, you fucking asshole. So he said he used an old pillowcase to hold against her nose until it stopped bleeding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now once she was cleaned up, he stripped her of her clothing and he said that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, he said that Judy seemed to be partially enjoying it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Um, yeah. So he raped Judy twice in his apartment, stopping occasionally to take more photographs of her during the whole thing. When he was done, he made her go to the bathroom and get dressed. When she returned from the bathroom, he sat on the couch with her for hours and talked to her. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like she said, he said Judy, uhm, like he was asking her what she was gonna tell her roommates when they got home, whether or not she was gonna go to the police. Judy was trying to convince him she wouldn't go to the police, she wouldn't say anything. He said they watched TV for like two hours. And that's probably when she said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, he said he really struggled with himself over what to do next. Oh, I bet. But, and he said he didn't want to go to, he didn't want to kill her, but she knew, he knew she would go to the police. And that she knew where he lived now, so he was like, I would go back to prison, I gotta kill her. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So at about 10 30 PM, Harvey told Judy he was going to drive her out to the sticks and he said, I'll leave you out there with enough fare, bus fare to get home. But if you try anything along the way, I'm going to kill you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Holding tight to the rope for about 5 or 10 minutes until he was certain she was dead. So he garroted her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Harvey said he sat with Judy's body for a long time as he processed what he had just done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he said, for an instant I wanted to undo what I'd just done. I lifted her head up and called out her name. No you didn't. No you didn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And once he'd finished covering her body with sand, he went to his car and drove 100 miles home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now for him to sit there and say like, I had this moment where I just called out her name and I wanted to undo what I did, why'd you keep her shoe? Why'd you keep her shoe? No. Can you tell me why you kept her shoe then? Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, that's Jeffrey Brudos. We haven't covered him yet, but we'll get to him. He's the foot fetish layer. Mindhunter. Yeah. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That night, Rudy, Judy's roommates obviously began to worry. They never heard back from her. They gave her ex-husband a call.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when he checked everywhere he could think of, he called the police and reported her missing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Missing Persons bulletin went out on Judy the next day and it gave a description of Johnny Glenn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it asks for anyone with information to contact them as soon as they could.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On August 3rd, the news of the disappearance made the papers and her roommates talked to reporters and they said that they believed that she had met with foul play. They did not believe she had run away. They said they knew something was wrong with the photographer when he told her, quote, he wanted to shoot pinup pictures, yet he told her to bring a selection of street outfits.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they're all models. So they know. And actresses, they know. And they were like, this was weird.


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[Assistant] No one knew who this Johnny Glenn was or where Judy could be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he was at work when she disappeared and like clearly was grief stricken. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then she missed the hearing the following week. So they abandoned that. So they ran out of people to talk to or any ideas of where she could go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They just assumed she was dead and essentially stopped looking for her. What? They were like, there's more pressing matters at hand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like a girl just missing somewhere, like she could still be alive. Yeah. And you're just gonna give up on her? Cool. Just gave up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, being a woman in this country. Yeah, five months later, she would be found, but not identified right away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, in the grave they also found one shoe, a fountain pen, a 10 karat gold ring on her left finger.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And an autopsy was conducted and, uh, they really couldn't tell a lot from it because they were just bones and at that point they're not going to be able to tell anything, especially at this time. This is the fifties, right? She went unidentified for about a year. She just laid as bones, unidentified bones.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now following that, the murder of Judy Dull, Harvey definitely gained confidence because-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And unfortunately, his personality got in the way of that job because he was fired three months after the job started. We love to hear it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But now he's broke, he's out of prospects, but again, he got away with murder, so he's feeling like he can at least do one thing. In February of 1958, he headed back to Denver to visit his mom, uhm, and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No one really knows what happened in Denver, but he


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't even know. Well maybe his father's life insurance. Maybe, there you go. But so he loses his job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He goes to visit his mom, he spends some time there, he comes back, he runs a brand new bungalow, and now at this point,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's emboldened now, cause you're like, well shit, they found her and they still don't even know it's her. Right, and at that point you're nearing a year. Mhm. So by March she'd begun hunting for a new victim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He assumed police were going to be looking for the photographer and models thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he was like, you know what, I gotta change that up. So instead he turned to the Patty Sullivan Lonely Hearts Club.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After paying the ten dollar admission fee, which is big mission fee back then. Oh yeaah. Harvey registered as George Williams, who he said was a plumber from Pasadena. No he wasn't. Uhm, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He changed the means of getting the woman, but he was gonna keep the rest of it pretty much the same as before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, he would arrange the meeting with the woman, see if she met his standards, and if so, he was going to bring her out to the desert and do exactly what he had done to Judy Dahl.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now the first date he went on was, according to him, a disappointment because the woman just talked the entire time and she had a dominating personality that really turned him off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this was with Shirley Ann Bridgeford and it was very different for Harvey. Shirley was only 24 years old, but she'd done a lot of living. She, by 1958 at 24, she'd already been married and divorced for three years. And when she met Harvey, she was struggling to get by and support her two sons.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And their names were Ricky and Billy. Oh my gosh, so cute. Now,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What the fuck. That's so sad. Surely hadn't apparently according to Harvey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I would put money on that. Or Harvey's Lying, which either one. I'd put money on both those steps. So she was very excited. On March 7th she got a call from George Williams asking if she would be interested in joining him for square dancing that evening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she agreed and she was all excited. He was going to pick her up at 7.45 PM.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they all said there didn't seem to be anything really like, stranger off about him. I mean, he's not-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's ugly as fuck, but it's like he's not somebody you would look at and be like, I bet he's a demon. Like, it's just not- No. And he's ugly as fuck because we hate him. Exactly. He's like a pretty normal looking dude. But when you look at him in like, you know, by those standards, it's like, whatever. You wouldn't bat an eye at like, who he is. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now the thing is, no one seemed to remember the description of Johnny Glenn that had been up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything just described to a T who he is, Johnny Glenn, but because the police stopped putting that out there, people forgot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Back then where people, like obviously people were using fake names a ton back then, but who knew? You would never think it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they went out, they set off and Harvey asked Shirley if she would mind if they changed plans for the evening. If a man says, do you mind if we change plans for the evening? Say yes. I do mind. Take me home, please. Yep. The end.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then punch him in the face. Take me square dancing or take me nowhere. Yep, square dancing or bust. That's it. But it seems to be that when a change of plans comes in, it's like, ah, ah, ah. If you don't know that man, say no, no, no, no, no, no. Plans. We had plans.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he said he wanted to take a drive along the coast instead of square dancing, which of course that's going to be so appealing to her. She's looking for romance. She's just looking for a nice night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, then they got back in the car and they just kinda drove around and again we only have his version of the story here unfortunately. Uh, he claims they drove around aimlessly for a little while and that he was wrestling with whether or not he wanted to go through with this because he said she wasn't a pinup model like the others so maybe she didn't deserve it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he's pushing her, pushing her, then he takes the gun out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he tells her get in the backseat. Oh my god. She apparently fought him for a minute, but the gun scared her, so she ended up crawling into the backseat, because what else is she gonna fucking do? Yeah, and it's not every day you have a gun in your face. He crawled back there and he raped Shirley. It's fucking gross. After he had raped her, he realized there was nothing else he could do. He was going to have to kill her. And he said it was for his own safety.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What? Cause we care about your safety, you little shits name. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just past 10 o'clock, Harvey began driving towards San Diego and he told Shirley the same exact thing that he told all the other women.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said he was gonna let her go to a remote location, he was gonna give her a bus fare, but that she had to keep her mouth shut.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he pulled into Anza Borango Desert State Park in Borrego Springs, excuse me, and he found a dark spot to pull over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He made her get out of the car, he got a blanket, he got the rope from the trunk. They began walking for a dark spot to put the blanket out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, he confessed later to all this and in the confession he said he'd already decided in the car that he was gonna kill Shirley the same way he killed Judy. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, once he found the place, he put the blanket down, he made her undress so he could take photos of her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he then dragged her off under a nearby cactus because he later told police he felt she should be under something. Oh, a cactus? Shut the fuck up, you piece of garbage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course Shirley's family panicked when she didn't come home. They called the police to report her missing. And unfortunately, because he had called himself George Williams and given a fake address and phone number and this is the 50s, they could not find him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's so funny. Honestly, that probably added to it for him. Truly. It probably did. He's such a- and I hate that he's one of those, I hate those ones that sit there later and are like, I do wanna do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get fucked. No one cares that you're sorry. If you were sorry, you wouldn't have done it. I'm sorry I didn't buy those pair of shoes that now I can't find anywhere. That's what you can be sorry about. You're not sorry that you fucking took someone's mother, daughter, and sister, and friend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After looking, after looking them in the fucking face, in the most horrific and degrading way, phew, you raped


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You took photos of her, you, like you're disgust, you, for five minutes you choke the life out of these women, you're disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. And that's the other thing, it's like you, you sit there and you're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I didn't want to do it, I wrestled with it. Fuck off. You sat there for five to ten minutes holding onto that rope. Yeah. For that entire time, you had all ample time to stop. Yeah, like all the time in the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's so fucked. And it's like, this isn't like 2023, it's like, these women, if they say they're not gonna fucking tell anybody about your face, they're probably not going to. There's no internet, there's nothing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, forget what I look like. They will forget what you look like. You're such a piece of shit. It makes me really angry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Detective Dave Ostruff, who'd been assigned to the Judy Dull kidnapping, actually


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thought the descriptions of the family had, they were kind of vague of what he looked like because obviously they weren't thinking they had to take every bit of his face into account when they saw him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He thought they kinda did match Johnny Glenn, but that's kinda all they had. So he was like, this might be the same guy, but I don't know who this guy is. Like, that's the problem. So the case went cold pretty quickly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's funny that he's living off of a woman and acting this way towards women. But I'm glad that one is keeping you afloat, you fucking loser. Like real cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in that toolbox he also had Judy's shoe, Shirley's underwear, anything he took from them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he's really remorseful. Yeah, he really wrestles with this. Yeah, definitely. Now by July of that year, he felt like enough time had passed. The heat was off. No one was on him. Like no one was even close to talking to him about it. So he's like, I can hunt again because the police gave up again. So why not? Come on LAPD.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But this time he figured he would go back to his other method of doing the photo shoot thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he went through local papers and he came across an advertisement for a model by the name of Angela Rojas, who was available immediately for modeling work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he called the number and he found out that Angela was a pseudonym used by Ruth Mercado. She was a 24 year old model who just arrived in Los Angeles from Plattsburgh, New York five years earlier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And after she was discharged, she went straight to Hollywood for dreams of like stardom. Good for her. She had done the badass thing and now she's like, I'm in all my dreams. Yeah, let's do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unfortunately, when things weren't really working out for her and she was not being discovered, she turned to modeling as a way of making money while still staying kind of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When Harvey called, he said his name was Frank and that he was a magazine photographer and he was looking for new talent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she was actually very eager to get some work and exposure, so she said of course she'd love to meet him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She gave him the address of her apartment and he was gonna stop by later that evening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he did, but when Ruth opened the door, he was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's wrong? And she was like, I'm so sorry, I meant to call you, I'm not feeling well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yep, he said, it's fine, we'll take a rain check, any left.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How dare her. And then he said he started thinking about, oh, she's not even really an actress or a model, she's a fucking stripper. And she thinks she's above me? Like he started pulling that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, exactly. So she's below him because she's a stripper. How dare she turn him down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he decided to just show up at her apartment unannounced. Oh my god. And on July 23rd, which was Wednesday, he just showed up unannounced and she was like shocked and was like what the fuck, but she was like, I am feeling better. So yeah, let's do a photo shoot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So just say it, say what you wanna do. And he said he was gonna untie her, but he warned her not to do anything foolish or he would hurt her. So Harvey, this is awful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Harvey raped Ruth for a minimum of four or five times over the course of the next few hours. Four or five times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he told her he wanted to, quote, take her on a picnic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And begin to drive southeast from Los Angeles towards the desert in San Diego.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They spent nearly, like they spent the entire day in the desert. He was just raping her and taking photographs of her for like hours. He later would say that this was them making love.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it wasn't until 9pm that he went to the car, got the ropes, directed her to walk until they found his spot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So after he was convinced that she had died, he rolled her body off the blanket and covered her with some brush. He basically didn't try to hide her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he actually wrote a letter to her mother thinking like maybe she had gone back to New York.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when he wrote the letter to her mother, her mother contacted the LAPD to do the report of her being missing. That's so sad. And just like Judy and Shirley, Ruth's missing person case was given complete low priority. They didn't care.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They had no information, so they were like, eh, she probably ran off and didn't tell anybody. Yeah, cause people just do that all the time. It's like, I don't think so, my guys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in fact, two months passed before her photo appeared in the LAPD police bulletin. That's a fucking shame and a half. And on that photo were the notes, may seek employment at nude modeling or as a stripper and mental condition poor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually is the one that cracks this case because the police sure as fuck weren't gonna do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, like watch something spooky. Spooky always makes me feel good. Paint your nails. Call a friend. Have some tea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey Prime members, you can listen to Morbid early and ad free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen ad free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I said it was probably gonna be four. Probably gonna be five. Might be five, but here's my thoughts. Okay, uh, we gave Albert Fish four parts, and this is Jack the Ripper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly, like that's, this has a lot to it, a lot of like the police force at the time, a lot of like inner workings and what was going on with all that and like, there's just so much going on and there was so much, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we'll see. If I can wrap it up in four, I will try to do so, but not at the expense of giving all the information. Never. That's how I feel. Okay. Uhm, so here we are. So when we last left you at part one, uh, Mary Ann Nichols, or Polly, as she was known to those who loved her, was found brutally mutilated and killed. Yeah. Uh, at this point too,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, Robert Anderson has been told by a doctor that he needs to take, I said two weeks off, I actually double checked, I was wrong, it was two months he was told to take off. Oh wow. Yeah, he was told to take off two full months and go on holiday, do not do work because you might die.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think he's going. Yeah, no, he's going for two months. He told him you were.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I did read in a couple of sources that the doctor actually said after those two months, I will happily write you another month on top of that, like another note saying you need another month. But it was not at a great time because this happened as soon as the murder started. And he had just got the job. He had just taken the job.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's why he came into it so over-exhausted, but he gives, uh, he gives Capricorn energy. He does a little bit. So you're like, shut the fuck up. I figured we would start part two by going into another thing just so you can have background on what we're talking about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of these places, in fact almost all of these places that we are going to be talking about where victims were found or seen last, uhm, you're gonna hear spittle fields. A lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, Spittle was actually a name for a type of hospital. Spittle. Oh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so the fields east of the St. Mary's Spittle, it's called, was, uh, which was founded in 1197, by the way. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Uh, were where the Spittle fields got their name. Okay.


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[Assistant] So there's apparently this beautiful and like very imposing and just like gothic looking church called Christ Church that still stands there today and was here in that spot during the Ripper crimes, like you could go to this spot and be like this was here during all of that.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and it's, it's basically around that is Spittlefield markets and other businesses and a lot of Ripper locations are in Spittlefields.


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[Assistant] So Dorset Street, where we've already mentioned that street, it's where a lot of the lodging homes were and where a lot of the women that were killed by Jack the Ripper were on it or out and about on Dorset Street. Uhm, it was considered one of the worst streets at the time and very dangerous. But like what street wasn't in London?


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[Assistant] Uh, but door, there were certain streets that were like, you turn down that, so those were the streets that the police wouldn't go down by themselves. Right, right. So that, Dorset Street was one of those.


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[Assistant] Uhm, Annie Chapman, who we're gonna talk about, uhm, is found murdered on Hanbury Street, which is also part of Spitalfields. Uh, Fashion Street is where Catherine Eddowes, we will talk about her in part three, where she was staying and also where we see Elizabeth Stride staying with a man for some time, we'll talk about her too. Uhm,


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[Assistant] They're just everywhere. The Spittlefields is a huge part of this story. The Ten Bells pub still stands today and was possibly the last place Annie Chapman was seen.


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[Assistant] I was excited when I was, you know, you see spittle fields over and over again. I was excited to be able to bring ghost into this.


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[Assistant] Yeah, no, of course I am. Uh, it happened to fit perfectly that there is a song on their latest album, one of which I love. This is one of my favorite songs on the album. Can confirm. Called Respite on the Spittlefields.


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[Assistant] And I had to look into this because of course, what could that mean? And when you listen to the lyrics, you're like, all right, what's this about? Um, apparently Tobias has said it's about the aftermath of Jack the Ripper and it's very obvious when you know that. Um, he said it's all based on the fear that prevailed because of the fact that he was not identified.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, he said in an interview, you know, the fact that he was never identified, it says, which meant that even though he had technically stopped killing at some point, they were never sure that he was not going to do it again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So for a long time after, there must have been fear, especially among women, that it could happen again. Because you don't know where he is. You don't know where he's hiding. You don't know what happened. Right. So we'll get into the aftermath of the Ripper murders and


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[Assistant] Probably part four or five, four or five, whichever one we end on. Uh, when we talk about theories and suspects, we're going to talk about how the aftermath was.


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[Assistant] But the song has lyrics like, you know, he sliced and diced our dreams to pieces, and the moon in the gutter has a story to tell, one day he will come back from the bowels of hell.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but there's a lyric that I also wondered, maybe referring to Sir Charles Warren, who led the metropolitan police force during these crimes.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but that was just kind of an interesting look into Spittlefields and a good song related to it basically.


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[Assistant] The thing about Sir Charles Warren, and I'm going to go into him right now actually so that it works out, is that he, everyone had such high hopes for him.


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[Assistant] And I think he probably could have done a little better, but I think he had a lot of bad, uh, hand stealth to him for sure. But he didn't handle some big events very well. Okay. And so I think people were so ready for this guy to come in and organize this police force and whip him into shape.


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[Assistant] And then it just fell apart. And to me it's like the king we hailed was the wizard of Oz. Like he kind of was the wizard of Oz where it was all smoke and mirrors and it behind the scenes it was a mess. That makes sense. But I don't know. I don't know. Can, can we ask Tobias at some point maybe? That'd be so cool. Could I just ask him like, what did that mean?


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[Assistant] Uh, just so you know because he's gonna come up a lot in this and I don't want you to be like, who's that guy? Like I said, he was appointed Chief Commissioner of Police for the Metropolitan Police Force in March 1886. He was a major general in the Royal Engineers and his militaristic ways were definitely something that made him a prime candidate for the job he was given.


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[Assistant] Uh, he was actually the third choice for this job, but you know, details. Third time is the charm. They got him. So he was there to put them all in their place essentially because the Metropolitan Police Force was a fucking wreck. Like there was just no, there was...


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[Assistant] A lot of disrespect, there was a lot of distrust, low morale amongst the ranks


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[Assistant] So I guess Sir Charles Warren came in, he commanded respect, he gave it back sometimes, and he ran a tight ship.


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[Assistant] He kind of got the ranks in order. He, people knew what they were expected to do when he came in, at least that was something that happened. But unfortunately, he also had a really rocky start and really finished to the role there. Bloody Sunday, November 13th, 1887 was one thing that really just


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[Assistant] Popped a jagged hole in his tenure as commissioner, I would say. If something's gonna do it, it is Bloody Sunday. Something called Bloody Anything is really gonna do it. I'm not gonna get into like the minute details here because we would be here for another episode on just Bloody Sunday if I did that. Maybe another time.


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[Assistant] Uh, Trafalgar Square, where, uh, Marion Nichols was arrested sleeping in, uhm, was actually a place where a lot of protests and gatherings happened often.


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[Assistant] And Warren was worried that, you know, the gathering of minds and ideas was going to threaten good society. He was worried that they were gonna come together and they were going to just like riot and something bad was gonna happen.


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[Assistant] So he was like, I gotta stop this. So he asked the home secretary, Henry, uh, Henry Matthews to ban all gatherings in the square.


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[Assistant] I'm sure it probably comes to zero surprise to anybody listening right now that shit got violent and bloody very quickly. Of course. So needless to say, he was not beloved after this. No.


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[Assistant] Then with the Ripper murders, things were just getting worse.


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[Assistant] So after the murder of Polly Nichols, it was Inspector Frederick George Aberlein and Inspector Edmund Reid who were really on the ground investigating this case to just the nth degree. Those names do sound familiar. I was going to say probably more than Edmund Reid, I would say Inspector Aberlein is some, someone that everybody's. Yep.


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[Assistant] Now when Mary Ann Monk, who was Nichols' friend and the one who helped identify her, uh, said to Aberlein, you know, she has a husband, estranged, but she has a husband. Yeah, he might know something. Aberlein immediately located him to bring him to the, uh, the inquest. Get it, Aberlein.


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[Assistant] The day after Robert Anderson, the new assistant commissioner of the CID has taken a doctor-ordered holiday to Switzerland.


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[Assistant] Yeah. On this morning, you are now going to meet John Davis. Hello, John. John Davis is a 56 year old Carmen who worked for Leadenhall, Leadenhall market. I hope that's how you say it or Leadenhall. I'll say Leadenhall. It sounds better. Leadenhall does sound better. Yeah. He worked for Leadenhall market, living in a lodging home at 29 Hanbury street in Spittlefields.


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[Assistant] He was living in the third floor attic with his wife and three sons. They had moved into this lodging home three weeks prior and since living there, they had learned that often sex workers would haggle with and bring their clientele into the yard outside of the building and he would often have to kind of like shoo them away. That was just like part of his daily routine.


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[Assistant] Very interesting time. The yard in the back of the home had a gate that was never locked.


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[Assistant] Okay, uhm, and it was kind of like a through way that people would just use. So they just stomp through this yard. Do people say roughen it? No. Ruffen it? Yea.


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[Assistant] Uh, this lodging home was one that you would typically find in this area in the East End. It had 8 rooms and there were 17 people living in them. So very cramped quarters.


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[Assistant] The previous evening, September 7th, he said he went to sleep around 8 p.m. and he woke up, quote, from 3 a.m. to 5 a.m. on Saturday and then fell asleep until a quarter to six when the clock at Spittlefield's church struck. I had a cup of tea and went downstairs to the backyard, end quote.


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[Assistant] In a coroner's inquest later, Davis said this. He said quote, the house faces Hanbury street with one window on the ground floor and a door at the side leading into a passage which runs through into the yard. There is a back door at the end of this passage opening into the yard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Neither of the doors was able to be locked, and I have never seen them locked. Anyone who knows where the latch of the front door is could open it and go along the passage into the backyard.


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[Assistant] There was a little recess on the left from the steps to the fence is about three feet. There are three stone steps unprotected leading from the door to the yard, which is at a lower level than that of the passage. Directly, I opened the door. I saw a woman lying down in the left-hand recess between the stone steps and the fence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was on her back with her head towards the house and her legs towards the woodshed. The clothes were much, much disarranged.


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[Assistant] I did not go into the yard, but left the house by the front door and called the attention of two men to the circumstances. They work at Mr. Bailey's, a packed case maker of Hanbury Street. I do not know their names, but I know them by sight.


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[Assistant] So he told the coroner that those men had got a police constable and that they had not entered the yard at all, nor had he had again. They were like, we're not going in there. Yea. The coroner was pissed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At one point Davis was like, uh, I don't know what their names were, and the coroner was like, you don't know what their names, like no one talked to these men who came over there. So then Davis was like, yeaah, I don't know, I have to get to work, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't have, which is like just, he didn't know. I was gonna say. But the coroner said quote, your work is of no consequence compared with this inquiry. So he was literally like, I don't have time for this. And honestly, the coroners, I don't blame them. They're probably getting so frustrated with these cases because they're like, no one's telling us anything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're not giving them maps of the area. They're not giving them where the body was found sometimes when they're getting the body afterwards. They were really given shit all to work with. And then they're like, how do you expect us to do our job properly? And they're like, well, we need to speak to these men. And he's like, yeah, I don't know who those men are. And it's like, dude, I know like that you don't know, but like, what the fuck?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So these men ended up finding Inspector Joseph Chandler, and they summoned him to the scene. Now by this time, I should say anti-Semitism had made its way into this case already.


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[Assistant] And newspapers and assholes on the street were saying it had to be a Jewish person who committed these crimes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it was basically an excuse to attack Jewish people. This was a purveying theme here. It goes through. When tragedy strikes, there's always people who use it as an excuse to execute their wills of, you know, racism.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Her hands were raised, uhm, and her face was so covered in blood, as well as her hands, that Davis said when he first saw her, he couldn't even tell where the injury was, because it was just blood. Oh, whenever you hear that, too, you draw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, her legs bent with her knees facing out and her feet on the ground. Her coat and her skirt, both black, had been pulled up to expose her body and they were soaked in blood. She was wearing striped sock stockings, which were obvious from her positioning, and she had been completely and brutally disemboweled.


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[Assistant] There was some kind of fabric or scarf or handkerchief most likely wrapped around her neck as well, but they said they believed that was done by her. Like as like a fashion thing.


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[Assistant] Uhm, the police report said quote small intestines and flap of the abdomen lying on right side above right shoulder attached by a cord.


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[Assistant] Her throat was cut so deeply and so brutally that the killer had almost removed her head from her body.


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[Assistant] And they said he likely meant to. He just didn't get to. He didn't have time. Cause they said he literally grinded into that vertebrae in your neck, so he was trying to separate those bones for sure.


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[Assistant] At one point someone in the crowd had gathered, or someone in this crowd that had already gathered to gawk, uhm, they grabbed a tarpaulin and they did put it on her. That was nice.


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[Assistant] He ended up finding blood stains on the fence about, uhm, and it was right above her about 14 inches up. Damn. And some more on the wall behind her.


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[Assistant] There was a comb, some muslin fabric and a paper case that was just like open and empty were next to her on the ground. Uhm, next to her head was a piece of paper and a ripped up piece of envelope with the letter M on it and postage from August 28th, 1888 with a couple of pills inside of it. Okay. In the envelope.


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[Assistant] Now most intriguing, but something that really doesn't, it like plays into some suspects, but they kinda just let this go after a while, most intriguing was a leather apron that was found nearby soaked in water. Huh.


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[Assistant] A little water spout nearby and they said it looked like it had been washed off.


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[Assistant] But then you, when you look at how quickly these are done and what they are finding out that these are done so quickly.


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[Assistant] Whether aprons were everywhere. People were wearing them for a lot of different jobs. It doesn't surprise me that one was in the yard.


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[Assistant] Just discarded. Okay. Uhm, but, and that's why I just don't think. He wasn't taking time to clean anything.


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[Assistant] He's doing these things very quickly, very efficiently at most of them, and he's getting the hell out of there fast, and he must have somewhere he can go that he can clean up.


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[Assistant] Well that's the thing, it doesn't feel like the motive here.


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[Assistant] In the afternoon, a woman named Amelia Farmer came in and identified the victim as Annie Chapman, who also was called by some Dark Annie. She had been her friend.


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[Assistant] So I'm not exactly sure which one it is. I mostly saw it as Fountain, so I'm gonna go with that. Uhm, was brought into, he was brought in to identify her as well later, and it was something that destroyed him emotionally. Of course.


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[Assistant] No, you never should have to. And he started drinking as a result of seeing his sister that way, uhm, and he actually suffered a breakdown.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and apparently it got so bad, and this is uhm, from The Five, the book that I'm going to uhm, I think I linked it in the first part, but I'm gonna link it again.


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[Assistant] Um, it got so bad that he ended up stealing from his employer at one point to buy alcohol and he got fired from his job. He had a wife and two children. He eventually ran, like abandoned his family. Uh, the next week he surrendered himself to the police station and wrote a letter to his wife saying, quote,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my darling wife, it is the cursed drink. For God's sake, don't let the children touch it.


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[Assistant] There was at least some kind of like, he escaped with his family. Now let's talk about Annie Chapman.


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[Assistant] She was actually born Eliza Ann Smith and she was raised in Paddington, West London and born on September, September 2nd, 1841.


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[Assistant] So another woman that died very close to her birthday. Yeah, I know, it's a strange little coincidence. Her mother was Ruth Chapman and her father was George Smith.


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[Assistant] And he was a military man. He served in the second lifeguards. This meant that he was not deployed like overseas or anything, but instead worked as part of the Queen's household calvary.


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[Assistant] He basically was in charge of keeping the queen and the royal family safe at their home. Wow. Which is a pretty important job.


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[Assistant] The family moved around a lot because of this military service, uhm, and the queen and the royal family would live in different places like Windsor and stuff and he would have to go live there. That's kinda cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well unfortunately both the parents drank excessively and were known for this. They were actually not married when Annie was born and didn't get married until after she was born and this was...


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[Assistant] Taboo. So scandalous at the time. They were seen as very taboo, very scandalous, uhm, and Annie soon was joined by a younger sister, Emily, and another younger sister, Georgina.


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[Assistant] During this time when they were living in Windsor, one of the many times they moved there, uh, Annie got to know a man named John Chapman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was working in Windsor as a valet and making decent wages.


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[Assistant] Uhm, he would sneak Annie and himself into his employer's home, uh, you know, using the keys that he was trusted with, and like, not great. And they would drink his liquor together. That was like their thing. Annie got hooked on rum at this point. She really enjoyed rum.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They liked each other. They, you know, keeping the bloodlines pure and all that, I suppose.


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[Assistant] Cause that's what they were being raised to do. They were just kinda going along with the family thing. She was like, I'm not into it.


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[Assistant] Now, after a ton of moves in 1862, the family was sent to live back in Windsor, where the Queen was spending a lot of time at this time.


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[Assistant] At the time of the move they had been living in London and Annie, being about 21 at the time, stayed behind to take on work as a domestic servant. This was very common.


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[Assistant] She was, honestly, she was like striking with brown wavy hair, like very piercing blue eyes. She had this like independent personality, she was feisty, she was unique, she just like wasn't going along with shit. Virgos are cool man. Like get it Annie. Annie was cool. Not two years later, this is really sad, her father ended up killing himself by slashing his own throat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was predisposed to depression, he was drinking a lot, that mixed with, you know, the heavy drinking, unfortunately.


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[Assistant] Which is really cute that it's like Ruth after the mom. It is. Unfortunately, Annie liked to drink and she developed a taste for rum. Oh no. And she had come from two parents who were very heavy drinkers. That's what she was shown.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She spent a lot of their money on this, causing them to have to move from their first home together back to a lodging, to lodging with her mother, Ruth, and the other siblings.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she had a series of stillbirths before having another daughter, which is like devastating. Um, another daughter named Annie Georgina Chapman. So George after her dad.


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[Assistant] Uh, John got work on Bond Street and Mayfair and they got a place in a pretty exclusive area so things started going much more smoothly once he got this job. Are things just like ebbing and flowing constantly? Yeaah. Cause then Annie got him fired. Oh no, how? She stole something from his boss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, they were all religious. They all had upstanding jobs at the time. They were starting families of their own. They had grown up with parents who severely abused alcohol and now they saw their older sister falling into it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think they had like good intentions at the time. Uhm, they had taken a pledge, they wanted her to join the temperance movement with them. Okay. It persuaded alcoholics to take a pledge of abstinence from the drink and they had all done so. So it's kinda like an AA. Temperance was pretty intense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but they had, I believe they had good intentions here. They just wanted to save their sister from what they felt like their parents had fallen into. They were seeing her go down a bad path.


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[Assistant] This is evidenced by the fact that she didn't stop and actually ramped up her rum drinking up to the point that in 1877 John, her husband, requested that she enter a program to get sober. Okay. So she did agree and she entered a voluntary program.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the sisters also helped the two, uh, the two children get, like take the important societal steps that they felt were necessary, like taking music lessons and like learning this and that, like learning how to be proper ladies, like all that kind of stuff. They were nurturing the kids. Because that's what they thought was supposed to be happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, John got another job in Windsor with another wealthy family after he was fired from the last one, and it was very rewarding, this one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He moved to their daughters to live over the stables at St. Leonard's Hill Mansion where he worked. It was very nice there. The people were nice there. While Annie's sisters helped out with making sure her daughters received the schooling and training they would need, John's boss provided the family with a nanny named Carolyn. Great.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unfortunately, Emily Ruth Jane was di- she was suffering from epilepsy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it was really bad. Um, and they even at times like people thought epilepsy was brought on by like too much masturbation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She had completed that almost year of treatment, she was ready to live with her family again, so she moved in, they were all excited to have her back, but everyone else who was working and living on this estate


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Unfortunately, she was not able to stick to sobriety and things got pretty messy and pretty bad really quickly. She began drinking heavily again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, while pregnant? I'm not sure if it was while pregnant, I can't say for sure, but she was definitely drinking it this time.


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[Assistant] And some people say there is a story that I've read in a lot of different sources that say she was really going along with the sobriety thing, but then one day I think John had like a cold and back then you would have like a hot cup of whiskey to kind of loosen it up. And he did that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he gave her a kiss goodbye to go to work and she tasted the whiskey and that's what set her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a story, I've heard it in many different places, but obviously we can't confirm that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, all we know is that it did get bad. So John eventually had enough. He didn't want to lose another job. That supported his family. So he threw her out even though she was pregnant at the time that he threw her out. So I imagine she was drinking while pregnant. Woof.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, her son John was born with partial paralysis and had to be placed into a hospital shortly after birth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nothing worked for him there. Obviously they weren't able to cure the paralysis. And even though John and Annie had come together again while this was going on because they wanted to support each other, this was tragic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She went right back into drinking heavily again, got bad again, she was spending all the money on rum and neglecting to buy food and clothing and such.


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[Assistant] He told her, this is the last straw. I never want to see you again.


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[Assistant] It was exactly how I have explained it to be with hard conditions, a deep disdain for those living in poverty. It was just bad.


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[Assistant] But then she started to, she was like, you know what? I have some talents here. Like she possessed many talents. Um, everyone who came forward to say they were around her during this time in her life said she was sweet, intelligent, and well spoken.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, she was also, they said she was feisty, but like in a fun way. Yeah. They felt calm around her when she wasn't drinking. Okay. When she drank, it was a whole other story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, but while she had previously, so while she was in treatment for that year, uh, she had spent a lot of her time sewing and crocheting and getting really good at it. Um, and so while in Whitechapel, she decided like many other women at the time that she could crochet, sew, and make artificial flowers and sell it all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People used to buy them, I said before that they would put them on these like fancy hats. And she dragged her wares to what is now known as West Ham to sell them. Unfortunately,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It wasn't a like booming business. No. She was getting really almost nothing for it. All her hard work and she was barely getting anything back. And that sucks. Now her next move was to take up with men she knew who could help her pay her way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was especially known to be around a man nicknamed The Pensioner, who was actually named Ted Stanley.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was older and had her wrapped a bit with his charms and he had like, you know, tales of his colorful life and ba ba ba. He was currently working as a bricklayer so he did have a constant source of income but he wasn't like rolling in it. Was he a good dude?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not really. So around this time, it's hard to find good dudes in this story. There are some though. There are some. I felt like her previous husband was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Around this time, she got news, and this is sad, she got news that her estranged husband, John Chapman, was very ill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His cause of death was cirrhosis of the liver from heavy and long-term drinking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, I don't know what his drinking situation was. I don't know if he was drinking in the sense of, like, he must have been, like, consistently drinking, but I don't know how that was affecting his outside life at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're both struggling from the same thing, like- And you're shitting on her because she's just not as good as- good at it as you are. Exactly. It's a tough situation because of course, it's like, back then...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People were doing things when they were pregnant that they weren't supposed to be doing because not a lot was known about it and it's just whatever. But, and obviously a lot of bad choices are made here. No one's making correct choices here. I said it in part one. We're not going to find this thing where it's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of being put in the situations they were put in because once they made it to Whitechapel there wasn't a lot of choices. They didn't really have a lot of chance. And it's like choices leading up to that sure could have been different in a lot of the situations but not all


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was either a full-time gig because they had nothing else and that's the only way they could afford lodging or it was a part-time thing where they would do the dressmaking, laundrying, tailoring, crocheting, like anything like that and then on the side they would do it to supplement. Right. It was very common.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And at this point, you know, even though this was an extremely dangerous and violent line of work to go into,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She really had no choice. Yeah. And well now again, she doesn't have that money coming in from John. Exactly. So she, and I think she felt really hopeless. So I think it was like, yeah, she's sad. She only wanted money to keep drinking and keep a roof over her head whenever she could really. That was it. And she was often seen entertaining clients in Spittlefields and Whitechapel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now at this point, she started staying on, dun dun dun, Dorset Street. It was in a DOS house, which we've already mentioned as being the worst and most violent street of them all. Sure have. It was dangerous, horrific for her and the money she earned from sex work only afforded her this and her constant flow of rum. That's it. She didn't, she really didn't care about much else.


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[Assistant] Uhm, this is when she began earning the nickname Dark Annie.


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[Assistant] Because as I said, when she drank, she got a little gnarly.


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[Assistant] She was pretty violent and angry when she drank and her circumstances met with the guilt she felt about her children and John was not helping her drunken rages from occurring less.


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[Assistant] There's a lot of trauma happening here for sure. And it's just, it's a, they're all sad stories. None of these stories are like, wow, this is a happy ending. It's like all very sad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the Doss house she was staying at was 35 Dorset Street at Crossinghams, which was managed by a man named Timothy Donovan. He was not a nice guy, really. It was a house licensed to shelter 144 people, but he crammed over 300 in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She hadn't, he did not know how bad things had gotten. She was scared to tell him what she was going through, was embarrassed, so she kinda made it seem not all that bad. Like I'm okay, I'm just like scrounging a little bit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was kind and he gave her some money that he had in his pocket. The two of them sat down for a drink and that was it.


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[Assistant] Now Ted Stanley and Eliza Cooper became witnesses to Annie's last days, unfortunately.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Ted told investigators he had seen her at the Britannia pub on Dorset Street, September 2nd, 1888, with Eliza Cooper. Apparently they were not friends. Apparently a couple of days before this, Annie had borrowed a piece of soap from Ted Stanley and it was meant for Eliza.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Eliza got pissed because Annie had promised to give it back but didn't have it when Eliza confronted her. Annie threw a half penny at her and told her, here, buy some more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They immediately went after each other, screaming at each other. They were physically pushing each other, getting into each other's faces. And they're like, girls, the pensioner is not worth this at all. It was getting ugly. Witnesses said the fighting was continuous. It went back all the way back to the DOS house they were fighting. Oh man. Where Annie then slapped Eliza.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, uhm, Annie's friend Amelia Farmer, who would later identify her body, saw her the next day after this, and she said she was horrified by her condition. She had a black eye, a horribly bruised chest, and she was feeling really ill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She said she couldn't eat anything and had only had a cup of tea that day. So Amelia gave her some money for more tea and then said, please take care of yourself and do not drink. She was like, do not spend this money on drink. And she said, buy yourself some tea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she told her, Annie said, sure, I'm going to go to Whitechapel Workhouse tonight. Like I'll, I'll try to rest.


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[Assistant] And Amelia later said of Annie, quote, I'm afraid she used to earn her living partly on the streets. She was a straightforward woman when she was sober, clever and industrious with the needle, but she could not take too much drink. She had been living a very irregular life all the time I've known her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Annie did return to Whitechapel Workhouse and in return for a cold bath and some shitty stew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was made to pick oakum, which is a very common thing that the poor were for forced to do in these workhouses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She had to meticulously, um, untangle old ship ropes. Oh my god. And then get them into like these strands that could be used. And it was murder on the hands and very intense work. It would like destroy your hands, just rip them apart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she saw her again that Friday, September 6th around 5pm after she had left the workhouse and she said she was still feeling terrible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She told Amelia she didn't even feel well enough to go to Stratford to try to sell anything. She said she was trying to push through and said she was going to pull herself together and earn some money. Or she said, I'm going to be sleeping outside tonight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she was like, I don't have money, I just need to sit. He did say yes. Okay. He said, yep, you can sit in there. She was seen in the kitchen by another lodger, Frederick Stevens around 12, 10 a.m. He referred to her as being quote, rather worse for drink. So I think she was like needing drink at this time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So a bit after this another lodger named William said he saw her in the kitchen as well and chatted with her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He too said she was not doing well and that she had taken out a little, uh, paper box of pills from her pocket.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, and she had gotten those pills apparently from the infirmary she had gone to, so they were, I think there was only two in there. Okay. Uhm, she left after this and William said he thought she had gone to her bed he was, she would normally sleep in, but instead she had left and come back around 1.35am.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think she had gotten a little bit to drink at that point. She hung out in the kitchen for a bit longer and then around 2am, Timothy Donovan, the DOS manager, who had known her for months by the way.


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[Assistant] He kicked her out because she hadn't paid for her bed at 2 a.m.


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[Assistant] Yeah, she told him how sick she was, but he said he didn't give a shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So at that point, the night guard whose name was John Evans said he saw her leave. He escorted her out of the Doss house around 1 45 a.m.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So she must have wandered around for hours looking for clients to make her money for lodging.


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[Assistant] There was a confirmed witness report from a park keeper's wife, Elizabeth Long, who said she was on her way to the market at that time and she spotted what she knew was Annie Chapman speaking to a man next to a house on Hambury Street. She said the man looked, quote, like a foreigner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not sure what that means. I was wearing a deer stalker hat and looked to be over 40 years old. A deer stalker hat is that classic plaid type happy hat you see on like the Sherlock Holmes-y kind of guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she said that he asked her, will you? And she said yes. This was near the place Annie was found at 29 Hanbury Street. So this could have been Jack. Could have been Jack. So a few moments later, a man living next door to 29 Hanbury Street at number 27 said he heard panic and terror.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His man, his name was Albert Kadosh and he reported later that he heard screaming. Oh jeez. He said quote, I live at 27 Hambury Street and I am a carpenter. 27 is next door to 29 Hambury Street. On Saturday, September 8th, I got up about a quarter past five in the morning and went into the yard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was then about 20 minutes past five, I should think. As I returned towards the back door, I heard a voice say no, just as I was going through the door. It was not in our yard, but I should think it came from the yard of number 29.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I went indoors but returned to the yard about three or four minutes afterwards. While coming back, I heard a sort of fall against the fence, which divides my yard from that of 29. It seemed as if something touched the fence hard and suddenly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oddly, he just ignored it and went back to his shift for work.


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[Assistant] So 6am rolls around and our friend John Davis stumbles upon the horrifically brutalized dead body of Annie Chapman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, when we began here, she was found in the yard of 29 Hambury Street by John. The coroner had determined her throat had been so deeply cut, it had clearly been an attempt to remove her head completely from her body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the pocket in her skirt cut open, all those contents placed around her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, then they found that leather apron that was soaked in water. So after all of this, they finally took her body to Whitechapel Workhouse Infirmary Mortuary. This was in Old Montague Street. This was a shed, essentially.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But again, not shocking. Not at all. Annie was described as being about 48 years old. She was short at about five feet. She was described as stout.


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[Assistant] Now this led him to believe there was some kind of suffocation.


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[Assistant] Uh, before he attempted to move the head because your tongue will protrude and swell. I didn't realize that. Yeah, so her eye especially had a massive bruise on it and so did her chest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After all, now we had Marianne Nichols and Annie Chapman murdered in similar and very brutal ways in his jurisdiction. And there were arguments if there were two others. Exactly. At this point, the CID, which is tasked with investigating and stopping this spree, is effectively leaderless at this point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, they didn't release any of these into the papers. None of the papers had any kind of knowledge of these. But initially, Dr. Phillips didn't even want to release them to the anything. He didn't want to talk about them. He didn't want them on the record.


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[Assistant] He had a good reason for this and I understand what he was saying. He said the injuries and mutilations were so horrific that it would be quote, too painful to the feelings of the jury in public.


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[Assistant] He said, I released the cause of death, which was a severed carotid artery. He said everything after that was gratuitous and does not have anything to do with the cause of death. All you need to know is the cause of death. You do not need to know anything after that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Gratuitous details from being released that didn't cause the ca- her death. Yeah. But like obviously you can't do that. Cause a lot of this has to do with the pathology of the killer, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But at that time, that was not really- Well, and they're probably worried about public terror at this point. That's the thing. So at first, the inquest bros agreed, but then they said- The inquest bros. Yea, at first they were like-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were gonna, they were like, okay, yeah, that, we got that. But then they were like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now you need to come back and you need to tell us every single detail.


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[Assistant] He's like, I just need them. I need them all. They were like, we gotta release these, we're not gonna release them in the press, but we need to at least have them so that we can investigate from them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but before he agreed to tell them, he said, okay, fine, I will, I guess I have to. But he said, I want every woman and any children that could be in the area to leave. I don't want them to be subject to any of this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said this is not fit for publication in any media source. And it's not fit for women! It is not, so as he explained the following, and well back then it wasn't even like, it's not fit for women, they were like, you're-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Constitutions are too delicate to hear such terrible things. Like that was their way of like, I'm trying to save the women and the children from hearing this horrific nightmare.


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[Assistant] As he explained the following, several men in the room actually fainted, so there's that. So, foo foo on you. Uh, so this is what it said. It said her neck was cut twice, one after the other, from left to right, and they were so deep that they cut into the vertebrae with a clear attempt to remove the head from the body. This is where it gets even wilder. Quote.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the posterior two thirds of the bladder had been entirely removed.


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[Assistant] Obviously the work was that of an expert, or on at least who had such knowledge of anatomical or pathological examinations as to be enabled to secure the pelvis organs with one sweep of the knife.


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[Assistant] So he said those organs were removed from her body. In one sweep. Without jagged cuts, without a bunch of just tearing through shit. And I can tell you. You can. I can speak from some experience here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is hard. They would tell you, okay, start the, start the cuts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you would have to take a second to find that part of the colon that you want to start at. It was hard. And you would look in there with the spotlights of, of, you know, 2000s and whatevers lab lights on here, all the technology that we have, all the lighting sources.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly, we still had books in the, in the autopsy suite, anatomy and pathology books, so that we could reference them if we needed to. It happens.


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[Assistant] He's doing this in the fucking dark. He's doing this with-


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[Assistant] I have all the time in the fucking world in the autopsy suite, and it takes me a long fucking time. And to remove the pelvic block? That's hard. That's intense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what they're talking about with like the bladder, the pelvis, like the whole block of organs that are in your, uhm, like even like the, you know, the thoracic block, like your, they're all blocks of organs that usually


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Connections that you know exist, otherwise you're just going to be slicing through most of these organs and fucking up the whole abdomen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How's that donut on your way to work though? So, this guy, if he was able to take what they're saying to me...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What they told me. What Dr. Phillips tells me here is that he took the uterus, its appendages and the upper portion of the vagina and posterior two thirds of the bladder. He took all of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's hard work to do and that's somebody that in my opinion has at least a working knowledge of anatomy. I like have cramps all of a sudden but it's not even that area of life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't understand, and maybe I'm standing on an island alone here, I know a lot of people will be like, pish posh with the anatomy knowledge thing. No. No, because- No.


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[Assistant] And it's just, I think unless you have taken part in a dissection and an evisceration and an autopsy, it's hard to understand.


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[Assistant] What's crazy is so that Dr. Phillips believed that this person, like I do, definitely had knowledge of the human body and anatomy. Had to have. It was one of those things that he believed couldn't have just been, like I said, somebody ripping organs out willy nilly. No way. I mean they took the, they took part of the vagina, the upper portion of the vagina and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, especially also when you add onto this that it was completed within the time frame of about 15 fucking minutes. Do you know how long a hysterectomy takes? Oh, a hysterectomy takes hours. Oh, so this is insane.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's intense. You are taking a moment to figure out and like kind of like orient yourself in the body, even just to take pieces of tissue from certain organs in that 15 minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It would be a real challenge. Maybe if you set up a time clock for me and maybe I could do it, but I would have a lot of trouble. And getting all that out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, but getting all that out in that amount of time, it would be a challenge. So I don't think this is just like a leather worker.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're thinking it was 15 minutes. 15 minutes. They're thinking it was, it could be 15 minutes or less that he was doing these things in. One of them, I mean we'll talk about Mary Jane Kelly, who's the last victim, he got to take his time with that one because they were private. He was inside of somewhere and he really went for it. But the other ones, it was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was going quick cuz he had to get the hell out of there most of the time they would find them and they were warm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All of that said, what's even sadder, what they found out was that the cause of death was loss of blood from a severed, um, carotid artery. Um, she was actually actively dying before Jack the Ripper got to her. She was suffering from a disease that the doctor said was slowly killing her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It affected her brain and possibly her lungs and the idea is that it was probably either syphilis or tuberculosis that she was suffering from. So she was in bad shape before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the murder weapon was determined to be a knife that was likely long at around 6-8 inches and very sharp. Yikes. They thought the same thing for Mary Nichols. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He pointed out that a slaughterhouse worker's knife would be possible for these injuries but not a leather worker. Okay. So he was like that's not saying they wouldn't have a knife like that, they just wouldn't use it for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly, of like an inside of a body, but it's a different kind of body. Um, but again, these, these are very important, uh, things to point out because with these being such big trades in the area and everywhere, it was necessary to narrow the scope a little and be like, I don't think it's a leather worker. I think it's more of these people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So again, the coroner at the time said he was not even provided a map of the area. He wasn't provided anything that he could refer to again to see where the body was positioned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They ignored his request for it. So he was just like, cool, I guess I'll go fuck myself then. Thanks, guys. That's so irritating. Again, how you doing, Dr. Phillips? Not well, bitch. Uh-uh. Cause nobody's giving me anything to work with. He's trying to make it nice. I'm really on the side of corners and I understand that, but like, that must be really fucking annoying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The police constable initially told him he couldn't come. He had to go find someone else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he was like, we might have found a dead body, and he was like, I can't move, I don't know what to tell ya. This fucking police constable said, will I have orders not to leave my post, no matter what.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Apparently some police constables were not beat walkers, but they just were sitting at a fixed post. That was their job. They couldn't move.


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[Assistant] There's a lot, there's a lot of stuff. But that along with the like not giving the corner or anything, they were like, can you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Annie's brother Fountain paid for her funeral.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she was buried in a public grave in Manor Park Cemetery in Forest Gate, which meant people would be buried on top of her eventually, and her family was not allowed to put a headstone where she was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In 2008, the cemetery where she was ber- where she is buried put a plaque where she's buried, like around the area. They don't know for sure exactly like the perfect spot. It's so sad. But it says, this plaque is dedicated to the memory of Annie Chapman, died 8th September 1888, a victim of the infamous Jack the Ripper. Her remains are buried within this area. So at least you know the area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Sir Charles Warren tried to calm the increasing panic that was starting to seep into Whitechapel, Spittlefields, and beyond with these horrific mutilation murders. Right. And in doing so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He came off looking like an asshole at times, for sure.


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[Assistant] Like September 15th, after two murders so heinous they couldn't even be printed in full detail in the press, he dictated a memo to the home office in order to transfer the responsibility of the case into Donald Swanson's hand. Okay. Uhm, he was like another detective, because with Robert Anderson out, he was like, we have to give this to someone while he's not here, until he gets here, so Donald Swanson was who got it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The memo, he wrote, said, quote, I am convinced that the Whitechapel murder case is one which can be successfully grappled with if it is systematically taken in hand. That's fine, sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You said it could be solved easily if someone gave a shit and had the time. That's literally what you just said. If someone gave a shit and gave the time to it, they could do it, but I don't. That's the cliff note. He said, I would just solve it in a few minutes, you know, but I don't have the time. So I guess you all have to suffer some more. Bye. Also, just like, this isn't a Sudoku puzzle. This is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These are people. Yeah, these are human beings. You should have stopped at the first part where you said it can, if systematically taken in hand, it can be solved. That's just hopeful. We love hope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you can solve it in a few days, take a few days and solve it, fucker. Right. We'll give you time off. It's a pretty dire situation. If I was on night, I would've been like, okay, Charles, take a few days off. Well, I'll take over for you. It's cool. What's your duties? I got it. A few days. You need me cover?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he's saying, I think it's important we give it to somebody and tell them this is all you're working on. Okay. Which that makes sense. Why the fuck did you say the other- you don't need to-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I look upon him for the time being as the eyes and ears of the commissioner in this particular case. He must have a room to himself and every paper, every document, every report, every telegram must pass through his hands. He must be consulted on every subject. I would not send any directions anywhere on the subject of the murder without consulting him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I must have this matter at once put on a proper footing so as to be a guide for the future in cases of importance. So he's saying here's what we need to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Swanson on the case, he's in charge of the CID right now. He has to be acquainted with every piece of this case, he's the one working solely on it, and we're gonna look at this as a blueprint for future cases. This is how we should do it. Okay. Cool. They don't do that though.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So at this point, like I said, Anderson is still in Switzerland. He has not come home yet. So Charles Warren had to put the investigation into Donald Swanson's hands. Now locally, he put Inspector Frederick George Aberlein in charge of the air. So he was locally in charge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, again, overall, Swanson, local shit being taken care of on a more micro level by Aberlein. A lot of people think Aberlein was in charge of the entire thing. He's often touted as being in charge of the entire thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's not true. He did however do a ton of work for it and is synonymous with that for good reason. He really did do a lot. Okay. He did kind of take over in a way. He tried really hard from the outset to catch this guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So September 10th, only a couple of days later, a guy named John Pizer was finally found after he had gone on the run after being named a person of interest. You might remember a man named Leather Apron that I mentioned in part one. That is him. Finally got him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Timothy Donovan who managed the lodging house that Annie Chapman stayed at told police


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He and another witness had actually thrown Pizer out of the lodging house on several occasions because he had attacked and threatened women and that they had saw him wearing a deer stalker hat several times, which is what witnesses like Mrs. Long saw the man last seen with Annie Chapman was wearing as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, nobody says. I imagine not dirty with blood because they probably would have mentioned that. He was a boot finisher, so that wasn't completely ridiculous that he would have several knives, but it's still something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I will also, uh, link, what is it called? Link in the show notes. Uh, they were distributing a broad street out in the, uh, a broad sheet out in the streets is what I meant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So newspapers branded him the killer. It was bad. They were literally like, here he is. That's him guys. There's no evidence, but he's going to be charged and sentenced in the press.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like yea, he's a shithead, but there's literally no evidence to say he's the killer at all. Except he has a hat that several other people also have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, a lot of, a lot was made of the fact that he also made hats on the side and that Polly Nichols had been walking around talking about and showing off her new black velvet bonnet. Right. That is a thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was seen with it in the last like day or so. Couple of days. Yeah. So she, it was new. It was something that they were, you know. All right. I get it. Cause I think she said to somebody like, um, like, do you see my jelly bonnet? Like it's brand new. Like, and it was new. So that was one of the last things. Interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now around the same time Aberlein brought in a man named William Piggott to be questioned. He had blood on his clothing and he was seen sitting drinking a beer at a pub in Gravesend when the police were called because they were like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was also behaving very strangely and acting very nervous and anxious. Aberlein arrested him and was shocked when he saw him because he said he was struck by obviously the blood on his clothes but also by the fact that he had a very close resemblance to a man who witnesses said they heard ranting and raving about hating women.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, he had a ton of injuries on his hands and he was covered in blood, including some which had clearly been attempted to be wiped from his boots.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, they did. He just never, he wouldn't answer. And witnesses said he wasn't the guy. Witnesses saw him. He was never picked out of several lineups. Everybody, they were, and when they were brought to him, it was dark. Witnesses were like, that's not him. That's not him at all. Like they were very,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they sent for a doctor and he was actually sent to an asylum shortly after because he was declared legally insane.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We'll leave it on Pizer, John Pizer, leather apron there. He was let go pretty quickly because there was literally no evidence and his alibi was confirmed that he had been with family during Annie Chapman's murder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, so he was completely cleared of everything, but he was pissed about his name being smeared in the press. He took action and actually sued a bunch of papers for libel, because once you're cleared, you can sue for libel, as I said, you were the guy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's all he would say about it. He was like, I would have been torn to pieces if I came out in the daylight after they had named me. And he was like, it's because you guys named me. Yeah. And if I had come out, people would have just, it would have been a mob of people like taking justice into their own hands. Yeah, that's true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he was never charged. He was just arrested, taken in and let go immediately. And they are back to square one. And very shortly after this, there is going to be what is known as the double event.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's a lot of ebbs, like you said, ebbs and flows of happy, sad, happy, sad, not even happy, really just like content, sad, content, sad. And it's like, there really never gets to happiness anywhere.


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[Assistant] Uh, next one we're gonna talk about the double event. We're gonna get into that. We'll get into more of the police shenanigans.


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[Assistant] Hey weirdos, I'm Alaina. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.


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[Assistant] I know, I just wanted to do it weird. And this is morbid. And this is morbid. You do fast, I do demon. Diamond. Diamond. Diamond. We're here with a spooky episode today.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and mine's just strange and it has like a little strange thing about the town leader, but yeah, Ash has like a really good one. Mine's good too, but Ash I think is going to blow our minds. Um, but yeah, I think spooky season is upon us. It's time to get spooky.


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[Assistant] The ultimate guess, I will say. Uh, but if you guys have any questions, cause we're gonna ask him a few fan questions.


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[Assistant] Just send us your question to morbidpodcast.gmail.com. Put in the subject line, ask Tobias. Cause we got a whole folder. Cause we got a whole folder going. We're going to sift through. We'll pick a few and then, uh, we'll have him pick some to answer.


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[Assistant] We want you guys to be involved because when I said that like we started listening to Ghost, John and I.


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[Assistant] Jordan from Nighttime Podcast is like a huge ghost fan. And he was all excited, he was like, finally! Uhm, but you guys were like so sweet about it and giving me all these, you know, songs to listen to and being like, I hope you get to a live show, which we are gonna get to a live show.


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[Assistant] So send those in. Let us know. Uh, we're very excited about it and yippee. We have some fun things planned for that episode. It's not going to be just a straight up interview. We're going to, we're going to flip it on its head a little bit.


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[Assistant] It will be fun, but you know what, right now we're gonna get into some terrifying lakes.


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[Assistant] Or nah. Definitely don't swim in this lake, I feel. It doesn't have a great reputation for swimming. This is Haunted Lake. Let's go. And it's in Francistown, New Hampshire.


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[Assistant] It is also known as Scoby pond or Scoby lake. We will all tell you why after, but most people call it haunted lake. I like that. Just keep it simple, you know? And it's been known as haunted lake for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have no choice but to be haunted. It's that simple. Like you're not just named that. That's not just a feeling. Maybe it's a haunting.