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[Assistant] Like some kind of descendant or like, uh, ancestor of the Putnams.


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[Assistant] Great. You know what? One might say legendary. Fucking awesome. Truly. One of the earliest, so. But as Putnam's assistant, Sylvester learned the basics of furniture making and the specifics on the budding industry.


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[Assistant] And then he moved on to work under a man named Joel Fairbanks, another furniture manufacturer in nearby Ashburnham? I've never heard of that. So I don't even know if I'm saying it right, but I'm from Massachusetts so fuck off. So FUCK OFF!


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[Assistant] Now he stayed there for a few more years, and then eventually found a new job working with Stephen Taylor, a, uh, you guessed it, furniture maker. Hey! And South Gardener.


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[Assistant] Now, after five years with Taylor, and now ten years experience in the furnister, furnister. In the furnista. Furniture industry. Sylvester ended up buying the company from Stephen Taylor.


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[Assistant] So in 1845, this was the year that Sylvester and Jonas opened their furniture company in Gardner.


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[Assistant] Sylvester also happened to meet and quickly married 25 year old Susan Jackson.


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[Assistant] And five years later, in 1951, the company had grown quite considerably. It was making


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[Assistant] A nice prophet. A nice prophet, you say? I said it, a nice prophet.


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[Assistant] And that allowed Sylvester to build a new home for himself and his new bride. And he built this, uh, home across from the factory in Gardner.


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[Assistant] A few years later, in June of 1856, Susan gave birth to their only child, a boy that they named Frank. Frank! Frank!


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[Assistant] Or Franck if you nasty. Now bye. Or a fan of Father of the Bride. Yes. Part two. Literally. In one. In my head. I was gonna say the before one too. He's in one too. He's part one then.


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[Assistant] So by 1875, S.K. Pearson's son had become actually one of the biggest employers in the region. Damn. They were making that big money.


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[Assistant] So Sylvester wanted a home that was more befitting for a man of his wealth and status. Of that big money. And that big, big money. So he already had his original house across from the factory. But he was like, nah, it needs to be better. S.K. Pierce. I'm fucking S.K. Yeah. Like, hello.


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[Assistant] So he contracted, um, a Worcester-based architectural firm, E. Boyden. Um, to my friend Marissa. What's poppin' Worcester? And she will only get that. So, he contacted E. Bodden.


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[Assistant] By E Boyden and Sons to design a mansion in the Victorian style that they had become known for throughout New England, which I wrote a little note here that said, our personal fave. Oh, I loooove.


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[Assistant] Now the three story mansion located at 4 West Broadway was actually constructed on the site of Pierce's previous home.


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[Assistant] What happened to the earlier house is actually unknown. According to SK Pierce historian Kenneth Watson, the original house was either destroyed or moved further down the street.


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[Assistant] But I guess that there is evidence of the old Holmes foundation that can actually still be seen in the basement of the Pierce Mansion.


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[Assistant] Yeah, honestly, that was like truly something. Truly.


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[Assistant] To make a whole last home, I don't think so, but. Like a Manchon. A Manchon. You know. In the Victorian style. Yeah, I feel like you see like a new place going up lately and it's like three years later it's finished. It's true.


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[Assistant] Of luxury and wealth. Yes, I do. I love that for you. Like when I'm old, I want to be a monument of luxury and wealth and gorgeousness. I'm gonna make sure that's on your tombstone. Please do, except I'm not gonna be married. She was a gorgeous monument of luxury and wealth. Are you gonna do that from beyond the grave? Hell yeah. No, I'm gonna live forever.


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[Assistant] No, at more than 6,500 square feet, which like, woah, the house contained 26 rooms, 4 bathrooms, 70 doors, and at least as many windows. Damn. It also featured many modern luxuries that you would not find in most homes at the time.


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[Assistant] Uhm, erosypolis, I believe is how you say it.


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[Assistant] It is a bacterial infection of the skin that causes inflammation and if left untreated it can be fatal. Nowadays they can treat it with antibiotics but uhm, those medications didn't exist in 1876.


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[Assistant] Like so sad, sorry I was taking a sip of water. Now two years later, Pierce, SK, our guy, married Ellen West, a woman thirty years younger than him. Oh shit, SK. Escondilo, as Jessica would say.


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[Assistant] I thought that you just stopped saying scandalous, but you were like skuh, skuh. Cause SK, I get it. Like SK. No, Ellen and Skuh. When he does something taboo, you go skuh. My goodness, skuh.


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[Assistant] According to legends, the new mister and Mrs. Pierce held these super gorge wonderful lavish parties. Oh hell yea they did. With guest lists that included the likes of Norman Rockwell, Betty Davis, P.T. Barnum,


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[Assistant] And even President Calvin Coolidge. Oh shit! Now that being said, Ken Walton, the caretaker of the mansion, points out there's no documentation to say for certain whether those rumors are true. But you know who does say that for certain? You. Me. And me.


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[Assistant] So life in the Pierce Mansion continued on being all kinds of fabulous, until Sylvester died in the home from natural causes on January 28th, 1888. Ripsk. Ripsk.


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[Assistant] It always happened. Oh yea, that's for sure. Hey, hey, hey, that's what was happening. It certainly is. So in the months after Sylvester's death, a heated debate, of course, erupted between his wife, Ellen,


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[Assistant] And argued that she was, quote, entirely capable of doing all the work herself for much less a sum. Okay. So they were just arguing. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And at that point, the remains of the estate were actually divided up between the three pier sons.


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[Assistant] But they would constantly argue over who had the most rights to the mansion.


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[Assistant] But in the meantime, Frank had taken over the furniture business. Stuart himself had taken an interest in automobiles, and he would actually go on to open his own dealership someday.


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[Assistant] Uh, in 1908 to be exact. And eventually Ellen and Ska's youngest son, Edward, took control of the Pierce Mansion. Oh wow.


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[Assistant] However, what should have been a happy occasion or at least a relief of, you know, ending all these years of arguing.


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[Assistant] And her death marked the beginning of a string of tragedies for the Pierce family.


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[Assistant] Now, as the U.S. entered World War I, a lot of non-war related industries went through significant decreases in revenue, obviously.


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[Assistant] And that was only exacerbated then by the Great Depression.


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[Assistant] So the financial collapse hit the Pierce family really, really hard, especially Edward and his wife.


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[Assistant] Their fortune was almost completely depleted by back to back crises and this economy that they were living through.


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[Assistant] And to add to those rumors, some people even claim that a young sex worker was murdered in one of the upstairs room.


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[Assistant] The brothel claims are among the more popular legends that surround the house, but again according to Ken Walton, there's no evidence to suggest that it's even remotely true.


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[Assistant] That's the thing. That's what I'm hanging on to. But instead he says, Ken, he's letting us know what truly happened.


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[Assistant] We're with you, Ken. We love you, we stand with you. We do, we love Ken.


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[Assistant] According to the legend, 49-year-old World War II veteran Enosari had been in bed on the evening of April 9th when his mattress, quote, mysteriously caught fire.


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[Assistant] Which could likely have come from him falling asleep while smoking in bed.


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[Assistant] Actually put the mansion up as a wager in a poker game. Oh no.


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[Assistant] But, okay, here's the truth. It's actually much less exciting and also less scandalous. The fire in Inosari's room caused more damage to the already crumbling manor.


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[Assistant] And it was gonna cost a lot of money that neither Edward or the family


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[Assistant] Members could afford, so with no other options, Edward actually transferred ownership of the mansion to a friend.


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[Assistant] Daaamn. Like, that's a steal. Yeaah. That's a highway robbery. That is. But apparently it was more than it was worth because of all the damage done to the property.


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[Assistant] But Stemmerman had actually only, he's a fucking good friend, he only purchased the home in order to help Edward out of a desperate situation, and Edward actually kept living in the mansion with his wife until he died in 1967. Damn, that's a friend. That's a friend because on paper, somebody outside of the family owned the home, but


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[Assistant] Always, like for the over a century. It was in control. It was in family control. Alright.


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[Assistant] But, after Edward died, that was the end of it really. Because in the years that followed, the Pierce Mansion sat empty and slipped further and further into a state of disrepair. Until it was finally slated to be demolished in 1996. They were going to tear this place down.


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[Assistant] Luckily, the old Victorian was spared in 2000. Oh wow. When it was purchased by Suzanne and Mark, I believe it's Vaux, it's V-E-A-U, but when I looked it up it said Vaux.


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[Assistant] They bought it for $155,000, which was about $30,000 less than the average home price at the time. Damn. And they got no mention.


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[Assistant] So the couple had purchased the home with the intention of actually restoring it to its former glory, but they quickly learned that getting into that and kind of like refurbishing it was going to be way more difficult than they had originally anticipated.


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[Assistant] And on top of that, most of the home's luxurious decorations and furnishings had been stripped. Like,


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[Assistant] I'm just like, let me take this stairway. But they also took a pool table. Wow.


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[Assistant] But, so yea, all of that was not great, and just as much of a problem, at least for the Vos, was the sense that something inhuman was residing in the house with them.


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[Assistant] That's a problem. Which, like, you bought an old Victorian mansion that is decrepit and been neglected for the last 40 years, so. And that many people have died in. I think you probably, like, should have known that, but. Yeaah. I'm not gonna judge you. You know? Now, as luck would have it though, during a 2003 promotional event for the radio station that Mark worked for,


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[Assistant] Uhm, WXLO. He met a psychic medium who simply went by the name Sid. Sid! Sid. Sid Vicious. Sid the Kid.


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[Assistant] Now, Sid was intrigued by what she heard about the old Victorian mansion.


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[Assistant] And after being invited over for a tour, she made her way through all the rooms.


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[Assistant] When she got to the third floor, she encountered what she said was the spirit of a teenage girl.


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[Assistant] And according to Sid, the girl had quote, come to the city from a great distance away, fallen in love with the house and didn't want to leave.


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[Assistant] It was me, I'm the girl. I was just gonna say. I'm just kidding. Now then there was another spirit on the lower floors. Sid said it was the spirit of a young woman who used to work in the mansion and had loved a man who lived in the house, presumably Pierce, but could never do anything because of the class difference between the two and also because Pierce was married.


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[Assistant] Classic. But classy! I like that she didn't do anything about it. Yea, she was like, do I think you're hot? Yea.


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[Assistant] I guess I'll just stick around.


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[Assistant] I wonder what SK looked like, I forgot to look it up. Check him out. I'm gonna check him out. See if he's hot. See if SK is a zaddy.


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[Assistant] Sid met a couple more spirits during her trip. Feel free to interrupt me once you find out. I will. She met a few more spirits during her trip that included a man in his late 40s or early 50s who had died in a fire of the home. Oh. He thinks this is Eno.


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[Assistant] So the experience had reported not only confirmed what the votes had suspected, but also, oh,


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[Assistant] According to Suzanne, every one of the mediums who had visited the home had felt the presence of the younger woman that, uh, Sid had talked about.


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[Assistant] According to Sid though, it was Maddie's spirit who had protected the house when it caught fire in 1963, and she was still watching over it.


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[Assistant] Three years later, the Voes welcomed a second set of paranormal investigators into the home. This time, the Atlantic Paranormal Society, which you might also know as TAPS. Hell yeah! And you might also know them from the show Ghost Hunters. I fucked so hard with Ghost Adventures. Ah, so heavy. Or Ghost Hunters.


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[Assistant] Yeah, JP also loves Taps. Oh my god, we used to watch that all the time. Truly. Uhm, I love to watch it during spooky season. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] While previous investigators welcomed to the house they had all been psychic mediums, the members of TAPS, they claimed to approach each case from a more scientific perspective, and using technology they tried to rule out alternative explanations.


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[Assistant] Uh, explanations, goodbye, for the disturbances. That's why I like them. Exactly, they're doing the scientific method. Exactly. Now ultimately, the results of the TAPS investigation were inconclusive.


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[Assistant] But the team was still pretty impressed with the Vo's attitude toward their very potentially haunted home.


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[Assistant] Now the voes were definitely enthusiastic about growing the haunted reputation of the home. So they started giving guided tours and they eventually even opened a gift shop in the house.


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[Assistant] Now, whether or not the Voes had bigger ambitions for the Pierce Mansion,


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[Assistant] Like, you know, making it a legit haunted attraction is unclear. But if they did have plans for something more formal...


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[Assistant] Those plans were abandoned in the summer of 2007.


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[Assistant] What do you think? That's a fucking huge house. That's the thing, $375,000. And it's like a store.


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[Assistant] Now, Suzanne and Mark Vaux had really leaned into the haunted aspect of their home, and that built quite the reputation around the Pierce Mansion.


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[Assistant] Even though they had done a lot of beautiful renovations to the property, word had gotten around about the hauntings, and so no one was really willing to pay that much for a super haunted house. So it seems like the Vo's may have done themselves a little bit of a disservice by being so open about their discoveries.


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[Assistant] So the house sat on the market with minimal interest from buyers for over a year. Wow. And the asking price reduced dramatically, not once but three times before any buyers expressed serious interest in the mansion. It's so funny to see.


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[Assistant] Yeah, or like, yeah, like dangerous or anything like that.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I don't know. That's a tough thing because you like, you're like, oh my god, $375,000 for a fucking 20, however many bedroom house or room house. Well, and it tells you.


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[Assistant] How, uh, how deep your belief in ghosts really is, or isn't? Oh, totally. And, and I mean, in Massachusetts, come on, if you don't believe in ghosts, what's wrong with you? That's true. What the fuck is wrong with you? You listen in what's wrong with you. No, I'm just kidding. I love you.


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[Assistant] I said that so like, so interestingly. I was like, I love you. I love you. Gotta go.


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[Assistant] So when Edwin Gonzalez, I'm just kidding. You are copying me. That's cause you got me sick. You stole my cult. Okay, I did that intentionally. So when Edwin Gonzalez and his girlfriend Lillian saw the Pierce Mansion online, it seemed like the perfect opportunity to fulfill their dream. Edwin said, Lillian has always wanted to own a Victorian house. Me too.


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[Assistant] We were coming in from Boston. At the time I had the opportunity to work from home for the first time


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[Assistant] So by the time they found the listing for the mansion in 2008, the price had dropped even more considerably.


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[Assistant] First from 375k to 225k. Whoa. Then from a second time from 225k to 180k. Whaaat? Which seems like a fucking steal for a grandiose suburban mansion. Yeah.


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[Assistant] I think you would literally be able to buy a closet. Like you'd be able to rent a studio apartment. Potentially. You could have like the corner of a studio apartment. But he said, I immediately called the realtor and told her I was interested in the property at number 4 West Broadway.


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[Assistant] So a few days later, Edwin and Lillian drove out to Gardner and they immediately fell in love with the SK Pierce mansion. Me too. Same. But as much as they loved the house, Edwin couldn't help but feel like there was something strange about it.


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[Assistant] That is a nice man. And so they decided to put in an offer which was quickly accepted. Yeaah, I bet it was. Cause it also had been on the market for a while at that point. And it was 2008, so like, not the best time to buy a house.


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[Assistant] Now, by January 2009, Edwin and Lillian had closed on their property, completely moved into their new home.


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[Assistant] Just a few weeks later, well, this one fucked me up.


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[Assistant] And the man said he'd seen a young boy about five or six years old looking out one of the windows on the, on the third floor.


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[Assistant] And then just a few seconds later, saw him at another window on the opposite end of the house. So he was like, I saw this fucker twice. Like you have kids, I know you do. Oh, that's a no from me. And Edwin was like,


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[Assistant] Uhm, you are definitely mistaken because not only do we not have children, but uhm, it would be impossible for anyone to move that quickly from that window to the other one on the third floor because, quote, he said he would literally have to go through two walls and a staircase.


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[Assistant] So the signing of the boy was just the first in what would be a long line of unusual and inexplicable experiences that Lillian and Edwin would have in their new home.


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[Assistant] Just a few nights later, Edwin and Lilian were woken up in the night by the sound of one of the large doors on the lower floor slamming shut.


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[Assistant] Now, noises continued on early into the next morning when the couple was woken up by the sound of the doorbell and a series of loud banging knocks at the front door. But when Edwin ran down to see who the fuck was pounding on their door that early in the morning, no one was there. No. I don't like that.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's definitely fucking with you, which also is like kind of funny when you think about it, but also pretty terrible. But scary if you're in the position. Exactly.


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[Assistant] Limited to these kind of strange disruptions and misplaced objects, some weird fucking noises, and also the occasional feeling of being watched.


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[Assistant] And they summarized the paranormal claims about the home. And they also suggested that he look up the history of the house in a book titled Haunted Massachusetts. Hey, I think I have that book. I do have that book. And it's hilarious that they bought this home and didn't realize that it was listed in a book. Haunted publication.


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[Assistant] So after reading all about the home and all of its paranormal history, Edward believed that the man he saw in his office that day was the spirit of Inosari. Oh shit. So creepy. So he decided to call a local husband and wife team of paranormal investigators. Who?


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[Assistant] I decided to take a break from them for a minute, but they agreed to come to the house and investigate all these different disturbances. So the investigators, they set up cameras throughout the house just trying to record anything, but they said they weren't able to document anything because the spirits in the home kept knocking the cameras over.


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[Assistant] So before leaving, they cleansed the house with sage and they recommended, which I was like, y'all just cleanse the house with sage. You thought that was going to do the trick at this point. They're like, this will be fun. They were a little past that, but they recommended that Edwin and Lillian perform a cleansing ritual nightly for several nights in a row so that they could assert their ownership of the house.


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[Assistant] So after the cleansing ritual, all was quiet in the house for a few nights because the ghosts got together and they said, let them think they have the upper hand and then strike when no one's looking. They were like, that was cute. They got in the huddle, then they slapped each other's butts and they went on with the haunt.


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[Assistant] So, things were quiet for a few nights and Edwin and Lillian became hopeful that their ordeal might finally be over. But uh, they quickly learned that their hope was misplaced when about a week or so later, they heard the sound of smashing glass coming from the kitchen. They said it sounded like somebody was down there just breaking all of their dishes. No damn. Which I would have been pissed. Yea, I wouldn't have been happy.


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[Assistant] So they ran downstairs to the kitchen, but when they got there, there was no evidence of anything being broken.


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[Assistant] That was an active room. That was the most active room. I've had shit happen to me in there, you've had shit happen to me. I fucking hate that room. Yeah, that room has some like...


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[Assistant] So yeaah, they heard that, but then again, there was no evidence that anything was broken. And then a few days later, they got a weird unexpected visit from a stranger at their door.


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[Assistant] A man named Bill Wallace had knocked on the door and claimed that he had some experience with this house.


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[Assistant] Just out of the blue. That's unsettling. Yeah, I don't like it. But he was fine. Okay, cool. He sold a couple of that. Justice for Bill.


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[Assistant] But so Sydney, it's the future she can see. I don't know. Sure. So in 2013, Bill told the Discovery Channel, I knew there was something nasty in the cellar. I knew there was something nasty on the second floor.


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[Assistant] Now, Bill also knew about the young boy that the neighbors had seen in the window a few months earlier. He said, I knew there was a child who had, this is sad, who had been abused terribly in life and was still being abused by somebody in the house as a spirit.


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[Assistant] Oh, let's fuck that spirit up, mhm.


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[Assistant] According to Bill Wallace, the spirit of the Pierce's former nanny, Maggie, he called her Maggie, but her name was Maddie.


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[Assistant] But Bill said that Maddie had been trying to protect Edwin and Lillian from the others, he referred to as them, to them as the others.


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[Assistant] In the house. But there was only so much she could do to prevent a more serious situation.


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[Assistant] But out of options and now very concerned for their own safety, Edwin and Lillian decided to hold kind of a paranormal open house, thinking that this would solve their problems.


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[Assistant] Okay, these are choices. I don't know what I would do in this situation. I think what they were thinking was that this group of people that they invited was going to help them, but I think they did more hurt than help, unfortunately.


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[Assistant] I don't know if I would hold one in my home. I wouldn't, I know for a fact that I would not hold one in my home. But to each their own. Yea, live your life.


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[Assistant] So they invited a bunch of paranormal investigators to the home in hopes that one might have a solution to the huge problems that they were going through.


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[Assistant] So the open house was organized by local paranormal investigator John Brightman and it attracted psychic mediums and other kinds of paranormal investigators who eventually broke off into separate teams.


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[Assistant] Now John's only stipulation to this whole thing was that nobody bring in a Ouija board or any other item into the home that could invite negative entities in the house. John is actually Ash. John and me are one in the same.


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[Assistant] That's fucked up. Yeah. And you really shouldn't have to make it clear, like, not to do satanic rituals. I feel like that should just be like...


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[Assistant] That should be one of those things that you, you should at least ask before you do a satanic ritual, I feel. You know, like, just check. May I use your bathroom? May I do a satanic ritual? Do you mind if I do a satanic ritual in the basement really quick? Just like, what do you think? Just, is that alright? And it's like, also, these, you guys were supposed to be helping, not performing rituals of the satanic nature.


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[Assistant] But upstairs on the second floor, John and his group were investigating the former bedroom of Inosari.


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[Assistant] One of the most active locations for paranormal occurrences


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[Assistant] Now they weren't able to make contact with- contact with Eno's spirit through asking questions out loud, so John decided to take a more aggressive approach.


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[Assistant] Other investigators in the room heard a voice say, squeeze every throat in this house.


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[Assistant] So this experience sent John fleeing the room into the hallway, where he claims he was assaulted again, this time by an unseen fist. Damn.


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[Assistant] He later recalled, in 10 years the most I've had happen to me is maybe the tug of a shirt or a door slam on me.


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[Assistant] I speak from experience because I got poked on the USS Salem when we went with our boys salmon colby.


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[Assistant] And that was scary. Like that poke I felt on my body for the rest of the night. So to be


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[Assistant] Edwin said they came in, they got some evidence, and then they left us with no answers. That's when I realized the groups weren't trying to help us out. They were just trying to conjure up as much action as they can.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in the days that followed the paranormal investigation, things shockingly seemed to get worse in the house. I don't know why. Wow, I wonder why. And things especially seemed to get worse surrounding Lillian. Edwin told reporters one night Lillian went down into the basement, apparently sleepwalking, and began digging in the cellar.


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[Assistant] Now during one of her sleepwalking events, Edwin claimed that Lillian was digging through the ashes in the remnants of an old kiln in the basement. What the fuck? And she discovered a scrap of an early 20th century newspaper article about several children who had drowned on the property. Shut up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was the reason for the presence of the spirit of the young boy on the second and third floors.


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[Assistant] And actually, this wasn't the first time that Edwin had heard about drownings on the property.


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[Assistant] While these deaths may have occurred at one point or another,


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[Assistant] That the drowning deaths would be even remotely related to activity in the house? I have to give you both sides.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But either way, Edwin was growing more and more concerned about Lillian because she was, uh, sleepwalking a lot and being kind of strange. I do, however... Sorry, I didn't turn it off.


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[Assistant] She was slipping away, I didn't have any answers, and I had no one to turn to. She was becoming more and more exhausted, sitting on the couch all day long. I thought, this is really the house that's affecting her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, with nowhere else to turn, Edwin contacted a man who claimed to be


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] An exorcist. And the man came to the house and did perform an exorcism, which he said would end the haunting.


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[Assistant] But a few nights later, Edwin woke up in the middle of the night to find that Lillian had again wandered down into the basement and was again digging in the ashes of the old kiln.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when he tried to bring her back upstairs, she began shouting at him until he agreed to leave her alone down there. She was like, get the fuck away from me, I wanna dig.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the night after that weird altercation interaction, Bill Wallace showed up at the couple's front door again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this time, he said he had a feeling that Lillian was in danger, and he believed that Edwin and Lillian were no longer safe in the home. He said he couldn't explain it, but everything became much clearer when Edwin told him about the exorcism. Bill said from what he thought,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now Bill recalled that moment and said, for the very first time ever, I was afraid to be alone in that house. Woah. Yeah. This is chilling. It truly is. Anything on newspapers over there? I'm looking. Okay, keep looking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now Bill's genuine concern for Edwin and Lillian and his insistence that they stay and fight for the house was all the proof that Edwin needed that they might be in real danger. And so they decided that they get the fuck out of the Pierce Mansion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Edwin said, it's one thing when you try to fight it, but when it's affecting the person you love more, I don't wanna see anything like that happen to her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had so many hopes and dreams. We envisioned the house being brought back to the way it used to be. But unfortunately, we kind of lost our dreams. Oh, that's sad. It is sad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now not too long after Bill's visit, Edwin and Lillian did move out of the mansion, and they actually didn't have anywhere to go quite yet, so they stayed with Lillian's sister temporarily.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that kind of tells you like how scared they were. Yea, that they didn't have anywhere to even go. They didn't have anywhere to go other than to her sister's house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the meantime, they were just trying to figure out what to do about the house.


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[Assistant] And almost immediately after leaving the house, it was said that Lillian returned to normal. Like nothing had ever happened. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So while moving out of the house may have dramatically improved Edwin and Lillian's mental health, they still had invested almost everything they had into the home.


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[Assistant] And some of the renovations that they made after moving in, like they had invested a lot of money into this place. Yeah. And because of that, there was no way that they could sell the home and break even, never mind even make a profit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Edwin and Lillian's time in the Pierce Mansion had only increased the home's haunted reputation.


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[Assistant] So rather than struggle to sell a haunted house, Edwin decided to use the mansion's reputation to his advantage. And he started hosting paranormal investigators, television programs and ghost stores, doing what he could to make the most of a bad situation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not only helped Edwin and Lillian stay afloat after moving out,


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[Assistant] But they also were able to fund some restoration projects.


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[Assistant] And covered the cost of badly needed repairs to the roof and some other various parts of the home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So for years, Edwin returned to the house regularly to host new tour groups or production companies filming paranormal shows about the house. And in some cases, he would even participate in the investigations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there was one incident where he claims that he communicated directly with a disembodied voice of a spirit in the house, and he decided at that point that he didn't want to be a part of the events anymore. This like really freaked him out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said about the voice, it was coming from all around the room like it was in stereo. From that point on I never wanted to participate in investigations again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So in the years after Edwin and Lilian's departure from the house, the Pierce Mansion became a pretty popular destination for paranormal enthusiasts and groups like East Coast Paranormal Research Team.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, they became frequent visitors to the estate, and they were actually even able to lead ghost tours of their own after a certain point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So for Edwin and Lillian, who initially felt like pretty heartbroken and sad after having to leave the house, the unexpected turn of events really couldn't have been more beneficial. Edwin told a reporter in 2013, I'm still amazed by what I encountered in that house. We just can't move back in.


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[Assistant] Damn. Yeah. So they lived in a house for a little under a year.


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[Assistant] But they continued renting out the property until April 2015.


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[Assistant] And that's when they put it back on the marking price, uh, market with an asking price of nearly twice what they paid for it in 2008. Shit. But again, remember 2008 was a really shitty time to buy a house and they had done a lot of restoration projects.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They got lucky and within three months they had found a buyer who was willing to pay almost full asking price for the house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow. I didn't see that coming. Nor did I. But unlike all the previous owners of the house, the Pierce Mansion's newest owner, Robert Conti, had no intention of moving in, which is why he bought it. Instead, he wanted to turn the estate into a full-time haunted attraction. There it is.


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[Assistant] Robert Conti is actually a periodontist by trade. Oh my god, I'm obsessed with that. But also owns a traveling haunted circus. Whaaat? Yup. A traveling haunted circus? You heard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I need to know more about that. Same. So when he came across the listing online, he had been looking for opportunities to expand his haunted empire, and he was like, perfect, let's buy this. Hell yeaah. So he learned about the history of the home and learned even more about the recent stories of paranormal activity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Took a tour of the property and he was convinced that the Pierce Mansion was exactly what he and his wife had been looking for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, this place is fucked. No, I'm doing this. Now, once the sale was finalized, the Contis got to work restoring the house to its former glory.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were able to finish all the restoration projects that had been started by previous owners.


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[Assistant] But uhm, yeaah, so Watson had become very friendly with Edwin and Lillian, and they recommended him to Conti after the sale in 2015, so he got to stick around. Ah, shit! And since the restoration's completed, uh, completion in 2020,


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[Assistant] Kenneth Watson has remained as kind of a caretaker and manager of the estate.


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[Assistant] Because hell yeaah. I'm about to meet Ken. Because he leads tours and sees to the overnight guests who book a stay at the mansion. See Ken, we've been through a journey here today and I'm excited to meet you. Can't wait to see you. And within a year...


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[Assistant] There were more than 3,000 people on the waiting list to stay at the house overnight.


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[Assistant] Excuse me, I wonder if there still is a waiting list. I would assume there could be. It's a pretty, pretty popular location. Now COVID, womp womp, of course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It interrupted business for a bit, but they are back in business and


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[Assistant] Now these days, customers can book everything from tours and events to overnight or extended stays at the fully restored mansion.


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[Assistant] But the owners are quick to remind any interesting, uh, interested parties of one crucial fact, quote,


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[Assistant] This attraction is not for the faint of heart.


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[Assistant] Today is the most morbid day one could have.


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[Assistant] I wanna be eating one right now. I just, you know, it's been a crazy day. My head's gonna explode a little bit. Pick up the pieces.


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[Assistant] Alright, well, honestly, I have a pretty sad tale to tell you. Great! So, let's get into it. This is, uhm, an example of a Tinder murder. Oh! So, very sad. Those are, those are sad and scary. They are very scary. They are cautionary tales for sure. Let's go!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In early October of 2018, Grace Mullane left her home in Wickford, Essex, United Kingdom and headed to South America.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, and marketing as well. It was like a month earlier. And this trip was going to be the beginning to her gap year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she wanted to spend it backpacking across the world.


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[Assistant] And she was super duper excited just to learn about, you know, all the different cultures and experience them and-


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[Assistant] Basically, she was having a little eat, pray, love situation. Get it, you know?


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[Assistant] Now, while she was in Peru, Grace was obviously making it a point to keep in regular contact with her friends and family back home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She would send them daily updates through tech, she was posting the social media so everybody could see the cool stuff she was experiencing.


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[Assistant] And actually what made this even more special is that Grace's mom had done a similar trip during her own


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, gap year. So it had even more of a special meaning to her because she was retracing her mom's footsteps. I love that. That's really cool, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So after six weeks in Peru where she'd been traveling with a group of other young tourists and backpackers, she left South America and this was when she made her way to New Zealand. And she spent a little over a week traveling around the Northland region before moving on to Auckland on November 30th. Now during the first 10 days of her trip around the Northland,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Grace was still sending regular messages to her family, to her friends.


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[Assistant] Still posting pictures of the trip, sharing that with everybody.


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[Assistant] And just ensuring everybody she was really having the time of her life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Her brother Michael later said she was just sightseeing and traveling around New Zealand. She was in good spirits and was enjoying herself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not, unfortunately. So on December 1st, 2018, which was the day before her 22nd birthday, which makes this even worse. And also she's a Sagittarius, which like, of course she's traveling the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and that makes sense that she was one of them. So, Grace texted her best friend Amina from Auckland to let her know, actually on December 1st, that she was going out on a date with this guy that she had met through Tinder. She said he was the manager of an oil company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright. And Amina thought to herself, she was like, it's kinda weird that you're...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like looking for a date on a dating app on what is essentially a vacation, but whatever. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly, and Amina had just gotten off a long flight herself and she was like, I'm not gonna like, ruin Grace's night by being like, what the heck are you doing? And I'm not gonna complicate things, she's just having fun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So as the night went on, Grace would text Amina updates about the date whenever she could. If he headed off to the bathroom or if she did, she was like, it's going great, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She told Amina that he was also spending time traveling and he was currently living in a hotel in Auckland, the guy that she was on a date with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In a few months, she said he actually had plans to travel to London.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in her last text message to Amina, Grace wrote, literally I click so, I click with him so well, I'll let you know what happens tomorrow. But that would be the last text that she sent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now the next day, her family and friends, because again, it's her birthday now, are all sending her birthday wishes, like happy birthday, hope you're having the best day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone's texting her, everybody's DMing her, sending her message alerts on Facebook, but hours and hours and hours are going by and nobody's getting a response from her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So at first her family was like, okay, I mean, she literally just got to New Zealand, maybe she's getting settled, maybe she's out celebrating. So at first they didn't see any cause for concern. But the next day, the day after her birthday,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All the birthday messages Grace had gotten were still going unacknowledged and that was just totally out of character for her.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, seriously, she's just about to turn 22. 22! Like has the whole rest of her life ahead of her. Wild.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So two more days went by with absolutely nothing from Grace, and that was when her family really started to lose it. So they decided to contact the British Consulate in Wellington.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And an official missing persons report was filed now with the Auckland police.


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[Assistant] So now there was going to be an investigation into this disappearance.


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[Assistant] And with that, Grace's father hopped on the first plane he could to Auckland so that he could aid the investigation in any way possible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A day later, Auckland police detective Scott Beard told the press since receiving a missing persons report around lunchtime yesterday,


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[Assistant] Police have been piecing together Grace's last known movements, with the last sighting being on Saturday night.


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[Assistant] Using the extensive CCTV footage captured from cameras around the city.


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[Assistant] There's like so much CCTV, I feel like, in other parts of the world. Oh yeah. I know we have it here, but I feel like it's way more... It's everywhere. Seriously. So luckily they were being able to like put together her night through this footage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In one instance a resident told police that she had seen Grace standing on the side of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the southern motorway in Manukau, I think is how you say it, which was about 14 miles outside of Auckland. The woman told police, I can honestly say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 100% I saw a young girl absolutely so close to her description that it's not funny. And no, there was no way I was going to stop. She was in a very unusual place to stand. I looked at the photo and I was quite adamant I had seen that girl. She had like a raincoat. She had a bigger sort of jacket, not a fashion-like one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't really think that tip led to much, but she was super, super adamant that she had seen Grace and described that she had a jacket on.


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[Assistant] Sometimes I'm, I think it just depends on like where I'm at that day. I think there was something that you changed recently.


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[Assistant] Seriously. Cause you think about how many people you pass throughout the day that you don't know them, so you're not paying that much attention. Thank goodness some people do. Honestly. But then what sucks is that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But investigators also discovered that all of Grace's belongings were still in her room at the hostel, which indicated to them that she hadn't left the country at least.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the sad thing was that none of those people she was staying with had any additional information. They were like, she went on a date and that's the last we saw.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were able to access her social media and they saw that still she hadn't read any of the messages that had been sent to her since December 1st, which again, very out of character for her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in addition to that they also found that her itinerary, this is quote, her itinerary


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[Assistant] Now, at the time of the press conference, which was five days after Grace had gone missing, police were not totally ready to assume foul play.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But between the unread social media messages and the abandoned belongings and no contact, there was cause for alarm. They weren't ready to go right to foul play, but they were tiptoeing that line essentially.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A day later, investigators released additional CCTV footage that was captured from a camera at City Life Hotel in Auckland.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Grace is seen with a man getting off an elevator on a higher floor.


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[Assistant] But still, they said they didn't have any other information that they were willing to share.


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[Assistant] But the case was not going to go cold, because on the night of December 8th, Auckland police made an arrest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time his name was being suppressed but they had arrested a man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The one that Grace had just gone out with on the night before her birthday, 26 year old Jesse Kempson.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According 26 and wait until you hear what this fucker had done in his 26 years of life.


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[Assistant] According to Detective Beard Kempson, had come to their attention because of that CCTV footage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And said that, quote, an examination of Kempson's vehicle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And of a room at the hotel where Ms. Mullane was last seen had led officers to conclude that she was dead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, obviously the discovery of Grace's body was completely devastating for her family. Yeaah. They were hopeful throughout the investigation that they were going to find Grace alive, and this was literally their worst fucking nightmare. Luckily their community rallied around them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the memorials and outpouring of support began literally as soon as the discovery was reported.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, the mayor of Wellington at the time, Justin Lester, tweeted about what a terrible nightmare this murder was and similar sentiments were also shared.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the New Zealand Prime Minister at the time, Jacinda Ardern, I think it is. In a public statement she said that Grace's murder caused, quote,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] An overwhelming sense of hurt and shame that this has happened in our country.


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[Assistant] On behalf of New Zealand, I want to apologize to Grace's family. Your daughter should have been safe here and she wasn't and I'm sorry for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also why we need more women leaders. Yeah, right. They get it. They get it. Like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was on Facebook and she saw one from Jesse Kempson. The night that Grace disappeared, he left a comment on one of her pictures that said, beautiful, very radiant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What the fuck? The night she disappeared, like very clearly did that after he did what we will find out he did. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the detective reached out to Kempson and explained they were trying to locate Grace, which is then when they learned that he had met her through Tinder and that the two of them had gone on a date Saturday. And the Saturday that Grace went missing. So he told the police, and this is a quote,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We drunk a lot of cocktails at the burger bar and we were having good conversations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he said the date ended a little after 9.30.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the thing was to the detectives, to Beard and Levinson, the fact that Grace mysteriously disappeared less than an hour after supposedly parting ways with this guy. Yea, like shut up. They were like, no way. So they kept him in mind as a potential suspect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they continued to chase down other leads but he was at the forefront of their mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Using CCTV footage, the credit card receipts, and then of course the communications like the ones between Grace and her friends.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Investigators were able to put together a pretty thorough timeline of events on the night she disappeared.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On November 30th, she used the Tinder app, and that was when she matched with Jesse Kempson.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They chatted pretty briefly and then they arranged to meet for a date.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The next day at 545 outside of a Christmas display in downtown Auckland. Oh god. Like just met up in front of a Christmas display.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, as far as anybody could tell, between 5.45 and when she was last seen at 9.40pm, Grace and Jesse seemed to be enjoying each other's company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They drank at the Bluestone Room, which is a bar near the City Life Hotel where he was living.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's so scary. Like she just thought that she was having a good date.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, it was in the course of their investigation that detectives discovered that footage from the City Life hotel lobby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in that footage, Grace can be seen going into the elevator with Jesse Kempson and getting off on the floor where his apartment was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I speak for myself, how many fucking times have I done that? It's a very, it's a very normal thing to do. It is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, it's just so sad to think that like you can't hit it off with somebody anymore and go back to their place. No, you can't trust anyone. You literally can't. It's like how do people date anymore?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the thing was the footage alone was proof that Kempson had lied to the investigators when he said they parted ways around 9.30. So they went, they went back to question him a second time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's when they were given a very different and way more elaborate story than the one that he told them previously. Of course. Excuse me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to him, everything he told the detectives about his night with Grace up until 930 had been true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he was like, you know what, I was lying when I said we parted ways after dinner.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said they met up a little before six on the night of the first of December.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When they got to back to his room, he said he put on a music channel on the television.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he and Grace started kissing. It gets a little graphic here, just if you're listening with people you don't want to hear graphic things with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We started having sex, at first it was normal, it was very placid. And she s- then she started biting and she asked me to bite her, so I did. I stopped at first and said, is this really something you want to do?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then at that point, he claimed that they stopped having sex and they started discussing bondage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he said it was at that point that Grace mentioned the book 50 Shades of Grey and told him that she did have an interest in BDSM.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he said she told him that she had been exploring that kind of sex with a previous boyfriend before they broke up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then Jesse said after they had that like quick conversation about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was holding my arms above my head and just biting, and then she hit my butt. Then she held me around my neck and pushed down. She indicated that it made me harder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We swapped over, I got on top, we started having more, I guess, violent sex. Then we ended up on the floor, and then we kept going. She told me to hold her arms tighter, and then she told me to hold her throat and go harder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he said the two of them then took nude photographs of each other, which is not true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he alleged that he, uh, fell asleep in the shower after all that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. Yep. According to him, he woke up still in the shower a few hours later. A few hours? Oh, he took like a full nap. So you would have drowned? Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I woke up the next day and saw that she was lying on the floor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I tried to move her to see if she was awake. I was in shock and I didn't know what to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I took a whole heap of tablets that I had. I realized she wasn't alive and I just wanted to end it all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So clearly he was trying to say, just like if, you know, that this was an accident gone wrong, they had too rough of sex, and that she had been killed in the process.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And basically, what we will try, what we will see is that he is saying it happened while he was choking her, like she died during that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you just crawl back into bed and you don't see her on your, like even if that had all happened and you had no idea that she was dead, which like that didn't happen, it never would, but in an alternate universe where that was possible, then you just walk back into your bedroom and you don't see her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then he also claimed that in a panic, he went to The Warehouse, which is a store on Elliott Street in Auckland, and that's where he bought a suitcase.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you said that you just took this whole heap of pills, but then you're saying that you went to a store and purchased a suitcase.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He said, I went back and at first I didn't know what to do. I just put the suitcase on the bed and I think I left again. Couldn't remember. It was literally a couple days ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he didn't follow through with the call. Ooh, so close. He said, there's a dead person in my room. I thought it looked terrible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It does look pretty fucking terrible. That is the one thing I can say that you are correct about. But you know what looks worse? You purchasing a suitcase.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because Pete, that pretty much implies that that's how you're gonna get rid of the dead person in your room. You fucking asshole.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kempson loaded Grace's body into that recently purchased suitcase.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So according to him, he then left the apartment to buy cleaning supplies, which is true. It was captured again on CCTV.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, seriously. And then when he returned, he texted a friend to chat. Cause he said, I didn't think it was real.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This isn't even the kind of paper trail you want, he was just trying to explain something away because uhm, through the course of their investigation, police would learn that the friend he was talking to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was actually just another Tinder match that he was planning to take on a date that night. Woooow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You just murdered a girl you said you really connected with in your room and you're so upset and distraught and you took so many pills and you don't want to be here anymore.


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[Assistant] But you're planning a date for tonight after you dispose of your date's body from last night? Wow. Psychopath. Also imagine being that girl and finding that out later. That's really funny because I literally wrote imagine finding out you were the poor person on that date with him that night. Jesus Christ. Because he did go on a date that night. Oh my god, he did? Yep. When he returned home from his


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[Assistant] Sadness, all of it. Wow. The stupidity. Cry me a fucking fake ass river. Wow.


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[Assistant] So yea, when he got home from his date, that was when he managed to get Grace's body into the suitcase. And after cleaning his apartment, he took the suitcase down to the parking lot and loaded it into his car, which is also on CCTV.


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[Assistant] So you can literally, like, he's carrying the suitcase out of the hotel lobby.


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[Assistant] So he takes the suitcase down to the parking lot, loads it into the car, which again, also captured.


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[Assistant] And the next morning, he drove it out to the Waitaki, I think that's how you say it, uh, Waitakari, excuse me, ranges.


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[Assistant] 20, maybe 30 paracetamol tablets because I didn't want to be around if Grace wasn't there and I didn't think I deserved to be around because of what happened.


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[Assistant] And then placed the suitcase inside and covered it up and then drove over to a nearby reservoir and he claims he sat there and waited for the overdose of drugs he'd taken to end his life. But it just didn't.


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[Assistant] Now when detectives asked why he decided to change his story until this new version, he said, because I want her family to know that it wasn't intentional.


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[Assistant] A woman in a suitcase and buried it and you think that's giving the family closure? Yea, closure. What?


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[Assistant] They were able to theorize that Grace had been murdered sometime between 9.40pm when she's seen getting off that elevator and 1.29am when he logged into his computer to use the internet.


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[Assistant] Directly after what had happened. What?


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[Assistant] His first search was for those Waitakere ranges, followed by a second search six minutes later for Hottest Fire. And also, he spelled Hottest wrong. Wow. And then...


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[Assistant] Are there flesh-eating birds in that range?


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[Assistant] I'm without words. Yeah, he has an explanation for that later, don't worry. Oh good. I'm eager to hear that.


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[Assistant] Or his lawyers do, which like, I was like, wow, that was a reach.


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[Assistant] But he signed out about 20 minutes later at 1.46pm and then spent 3 minutes, uh, taking intimate photographs of Miss Malene's body.


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[Assistant] He obviously knew that police were gonna find his phone, search it, find these photos, and apparently he didn't realize that.


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[Assistant] And tried to say that that was like something they did in the course of their BDSM. Like that's not BDSM at all.


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[Assistant] In the footprints walking towards the bathroom and in small splatters on the fridge.


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[Assistant] And then they believed that the smaller strain, uh, stains were likely spillover from a bucket, like somebody would use to clean a mess.


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[Assistant] Now, because the body had been left undiscovered for nearly a week, the autopsy technicians couldn't be precise in the measurements and conclusions.


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[Assistant] But the medical examiner was able to conclude that the cause of death was manual strangulation.


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[Assistant] Applied sustained strength and unrelenting pressure for somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes.


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[Assistant] Like even right now, just thinking about that, I had to take a breath. Five to ten minutes, there's no way she wasn't struggling.


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[Assistant] And they also noted that there were burst blood vessels in Grace's face and petechial hemorrhaging in her left eye.


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[Assistant] Deep bruising on her upper arms, neck, and left sho- shoulder.


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[Assistant] That is described as being quote, typical of restraint.


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[Assistant] This was not sex. No drugs were found in her system, but due to the time that had passed, the medical examiner also couldn't determine her blood alcohol level at the time of her death, which in this case to me, it doesn't really matter. Now digging into Kempson's personal life,


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[Assistant] Detectives found a tangled, confusing web of lies, half-truths, and oddities, I guess you could say, that provided very little insight into who Jesse was, what his personal story really was, but this is what we do know.


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[Assistant] I really tried and I literally put phonetic spelling. Wow. He was raised around there.


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[Assistant] According to one former acquaintance, they were all quote, appalled by his constant dishonesty and thievery.


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[Assistant] Now, the tensions between his, him and his father and his stepmom eventually led to them giving him an ultimatum.


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[Assistant] He was arrested multiple times for disorderly behavior


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[Assistant] Which was a pattern that continued when he returned to New Zealand because he was arrested in New Zealand for drunk driving. Okay. Yes.


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[Assistant] Basically his issues seemed to follow him wherever he went. Yeah. When he returned to Auckland after leaving Australia, he found a shared apartment situation.


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[Assistant] And told his new roommates that he quote, was coming over to New Zealand to buy bars to add to the franchise his father owned. That was not the case at all.


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[Assistant] The roommate's problems with him also began almost immediately. He failed to pay his rent on time constantly.


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[Assistant] Eventually you stop believing the stories. There were so many stories that you start to say, really? It stopped making sense.


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[Assistant] And then other roommates even found his behavior to be odd or sometimes threatening. One of them, a female.


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[Assistant] That was coming through from their investigation was that of a troubled and most likely mentally ill chronic liar.


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[Assistant] Who struggle to maintain relationships with anybody.


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[Assistant] Now, it was his criminal history though that convinced them that Grace's death was not an accident.


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[Assistant] In 2017, his former girlfriend went to the Auckland police and reported that he had violently raped her.


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[Assistant] And actually about eight months before he met Grace on Tinder, he made another date on the app with a woman that he ended up sexually assaulting at the end of the night.


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[Assistant] She told reporters, I was just frozen. I let him do what he needed to do so I could try and go to sleep or go home as soon as possible.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and then a lot of times they do. It's really bad. Let's just let the grid crash, everybody. Let the grid absolutely crash. See you later. There's uhm, a sunspot on the sun. There you go. Which is wild, that sunspots.


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[Assistant] Well, in his first court appearance, Jesse comes in and his defense team petition to have his name suppressed in all the public records and media.


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[Assistant] Which I- I'm very confused about why, cause he was 26 years old, it's not like he's a juvenile. No. But the request, it actually was initially denied.


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[Assistant] Which immediately caused problems in the case because it was being


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[Assistant] They named him to users across the world. Of course. And it caused this massive like issue and like tension within the trial.


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[Assistant] It's just interesting. It is and the New Zealand legal system was fucking pissed at Google, like really mad.


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[Assistant] But then Google said that they never received any kind of suppression order and it pretty much went nowhere. There was like discussions that were had about...


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[Assistant] So Jesse Kempston's trial did start on November 4th, 2019, almost one year after Grace's death. And the trial was overseen by Justice Simon Moore.


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[Assistant] And he put unusually tight restrictions on the local and international media in the courtroom because of that situation with Google, so that's why I had to mention it.


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[Assistant] The Crown was being represented by Brian Dickey, a Crown solicitor, with more than 24 years experience in prosecuting major criminal cases, like at the highest courts, which I think is cool when there's multiple courts. High courts. High courts.


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[Assistant] Now, Kimson's defense team was led by Ian Brookie, a private solicitor who actually had a history of prosecuting cases on behalf of the Crown. So that was interesting. In his opening statement,


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[Assistant] Dickey told the jury the facts of the case and noted that even though Jesse Kempson claimed Grace had died accidentally,


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[Assistant] Incredible. And he argued that he was eroticizing Grace's death by taking intimate photographs of her body.


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[Assistant] And looking up pornography while she lay dead in his room.


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[Assistant] But in their opening statement, the defense of course argued the opposite. They said that Grace and Jesse shared dinner, some drinks, went back to his apartment and engaged in consensual sex. Shut up. Like no.


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[Assistant] They said it was then that Grace, it was Grace's fault. Of course it was. She asked Jessie to choke her, which resulted in her accidental death.


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[Assistant] And they said, as for Kempson looking at porn and searching for random things later, those were, quote unquote, random drunk searches.


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[Assistant] And they said him searching for the Waitakiri ranges could have just been something as simple as him searching, quote, somewhere the pair had planned to go for a day out.


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[Assistant] And just looking at porn, after he already had sex, cause that makes sense.


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[Assistant] But, but please believe me. So it was clear that the defense was going to portray the murder as just rough sex gone wrong, that old defense. But thankfully the prosecution was very prepared for that.


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[Assistant] Their second round of witnesses they hoped would show that Jesse Kempson was a sexual sadist with a history of violence against women. In total, the prosecution called three women to the stand.


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[Assistant] And each of them had varying degrees of contact with him


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[Assistant] And they all had their identity suppressed for their own safety thankfully.


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[Assistant] Told her he liked rough sex, domination, and strangulation because it made him feel more superior and in control.


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[Assistant] They went on a date and they did engage in consensual sex, but at some point he became more aggressive during that than she had anticipated.


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[Assistant] And she told the courtroom, he grabbed my forearms and put all the pressure on my arms so I couldn't breathe and I couldn't move my arms.


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[Assistant] I started kicking trying to indicate that I couldn't breathe. I was kicking violently. He would have helped me fight- He would have felt me fighting. I was terrified.


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[Assistant] And later when she confronted him about the incident, she said he told her, in an accusing and cold tone, you don't think I did that on purpose, did you?


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[Assistant] Now according to the witness, she did stay in contact with him for months after because she was, quote, concerned that she had given him too much information about her life.


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[Assistant] Now on the morning of December 1st 2018, just hours before he went out with Grace,


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[Assistant] He was trying to get in contact with this witness to get her to agree to a date.


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[Assistant] Now the next witness called for the prosecution claimed that she had also matched with him on Tinder.


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[Assistant] And that they had been exchanging messages for weeks, but she declined his request for a date because


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[Assistant] She said, quote, she turned down his offers of a date.


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[Assistant] Because of some of his sexual requests, which included strangulation, made her feel uncomfortable.


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[Assistant] Now like the last witness, he also contacted this girl on the morning he went out with Grace.


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[Assistant] And then a third woman who he met through Tinder nine days before Grace had a similar experience in which consensual asphyxiation was introduced by Kempson.


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[Assistant] So after the prosecution had presented the three witnesses, the defense still tried to portray what happened to Grace as an accident.


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[Assistant] Uh, the attorney, Kempson's attorney there presented the jury with forensic evidence that he collected from Grace's laptop.


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[Assistant] Basically, she was on a BDSM website talking to people. Okay. Which she is perfectly allowed to do. She is a consenting adult. Yeah. The chats were between her and two separate men and they occurred between August and September in 2017.


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[Assistant] The transcripts were read aloud to the courtroom.


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[Assistant] She is dead, everybody. And was killed. And this is nothing to do with it. Nothing.


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[Assistant] It's crazy. So one man that she had been talking to was called to testify about his conversation with her and he told the jury everything.


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[Assistant] And then a second witness for the defense made similar claims that she was new to this world of BDSM, trying it out.


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[Assistant] And she did enjoy being choked. That was a preference.


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[Assistant] Everybody. Exactly. And then in a statement again read aloud for the court, an unnamed female friend of Grace's, which like, you did your friend dirty.


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[Assistant] She said Grace enjoyed her partner putting his hands around her neck. And again


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[Assistant] Not only you know killed her, you know has assaulted at least three other women. And how about all the women that were probably too terrified to come forward? A violent rapist you're trying to get off on murder that he has admitted to. He raped his own girlfriend.


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[Assistant] So, and again, they did it all the way till the end. In his closing arguments, Ron Mansfield, who was a member of Kempson's defense team, reinforced their position that Grace, excuse me, had initiated and encouraged the sexual behavior that resulted in her death. That's what they said. Wow.


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[Assistant] No matter what he did once he realized she had died unless he called the authorities, that was not gonna look good or stand him in good stead.


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[Assistant] Because who was going to believe him that the death occurred during a consensual activity?


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[Assistant] And also like, sure, yea, you're correct, people do do things when they're stressed and panicked and no matter what he did other than calling the ambulance would look bad.


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[Assistant] Him looking up the place where he buried her body is more than bad. Him then doubling down to see if the birds would eat the flesh off of her bones. Horrific.


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[Assistant] So in his closing arguments, Brian Dickey, uh, disagreed with the defense's case entirely.


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[Assistant] He pointed out the medical examiner's estimation that the strangulation lasted between 5 and 10 minutes and told the jury this is a quote.


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[Assistant] This isn't just a little bit of sex gone wrong, because the person doing that must have known that they were hurting her. Causing her harm that might well cause her death, but they were reckless and carried on and she died.


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[Assistant] And actually the defense, for him, only kind of fucked themselves there, proved that because she was super new to this. Exactly.


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[Assistant] Nice job. Yup. Now the, uhm, dicky there, the one that we like, he also noted more importantly that the evidence presented at trial didn't even support the defense's claim of an accidental death.


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[Assistant] He partially, or excuse me, he particularly pointed to Jesse's actions right after Grace's death.


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[Assistant] He said the internet searches and the taking photographs, uh, were specifically undermined by the defense. Yeah. And said either Ms. Malane was dead when they were taken, or he had searched for the Waitakere ranges where he buried her body while she was still living, thus showing he planned to kill her.


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[Assistant] So after almost four weeks of graphic, graphic testimony and very disturbing evidence, the jury retired for deliberation. So before they headed out, Justice Moore reminded them that they were not deliberating whether Kempson was guilty of having caused Grace's death. We all knew that was true.


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[Assistant] Or the infliction of the sort of actual bodily injury that could was- that could well cause death.


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[Assistant] The jury deliberated for just about five hours before returning a unanimous guilty verdict.


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[Assistant] This will be with us for the rest of our lives. Grace was a beautiful, talented, loving daughter. Grace was our sunshine and she will be missed forever. She did not deserve to be murdered in such a barbaric way or on her gap year.


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[Assistant] In February of 2020 actually, which is crazy, Jesse Cumson was sentenced to life in prison with a minimum of 17 years before he could ever be considered for parole.


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[Assistant] And in the months that followed, he was also found guilty in two sexual assault cases. Good. And he got sentenced to 11 years in prison for those to be served once he was done for the murder of Grateful Chris. Good, I like that they did that. So tacked it right on to the end.


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[Assistant] Of course, he and his lawyers appealed to the sentence, and they argued that there was a quote credible narrative of consent, basically saying that


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[Assistant] He believed Grace consented to the act that resulted in her death.


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[Assistant] Are you kidding me right now? Exactly. Like, wow. Okay, glass house. No. Absolutely ridiculous. They said by their verdict, the jury showed that they were sure that if the applicant did not


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[Assistant] Intend to kill the deceased, he at least intended to inflict bodily injury, which he knew was likely to result in death.


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[Assistant] But there is nothing in what the applicant told the police to suggest she consented to.


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[Assistant] So on June 29th, 2021, the court rejected that appeal and they upheld the court's original ruling.


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[Assistant] And just the safety and protection of women in the country in general.


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[Assistant] Now, uh, like overall, New Zealand is seen as a very safe and progressive country.


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[Assistant] Well what's crazy is when it comes to domestic violence and violence against women in New Zealand society,


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[Assistant] Recent reports found that quote 35% of New Zealand women


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[Assistant] Of criminology at Victoria University in Wellington, a woman named Jan Jordan.


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[Assistant] So thankfully, once Jesse was convicted, things kinda, like, this case shook things up.


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[Assistant] An activist in New Zealand started advocating for change and the laws that allow the use of such defenses because that is a real defense. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And Fiona McKenzie told reporters, with nearly 40% of women under 40 saying they've been violently assaulted in sex, the criminal justice system needs to be ready to respond if these women report, and not just dismiss the violence as something they asked for.


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[Assistant] Now as of 2023, the laws have not changed yet, but it's a very much still ongoing debate.


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[Assistant] And I'm actually going to include a petition calling for the end of the rough sex defense in the show notes. Good. So definitely make sure to check that out and sign if you are willing. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] But yes, that will be in the show notes and then I will see if our girl Avery can also put it on social media.


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[Assistant] That is the tragic, tragic story of Grace Millane and how...


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[Assistant] It really was, but we love you guys and please stay safe out there if you're using dating apps. Yeaah, be careful. Go on double dates. Yeaah, there you go. Oh my gosh, my friend has this really cool boyfriend, I think you'd hit it off. Let's go. Would you want to do a double date? Cause I don't want you to murder me.


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[Assistant] Alright guys, well that's your tip of the week.


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[Assistant] But you know what, today we're gonna do, we're gonna do something fun, we're gonna do some listener tales. Yeaah. You know, cause listener tales are...


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[Assistant] With, uhm, an intense one. Yay. Because this one includes Jerry Brudos.


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[Assistant] This one's called OG Listener Tale. My mom dated a serial killer. Someone on your future topic agenda. So they knew. They knew. It's on my future topic agenda. It says, hey chicas, where do I start? You can use my name, which is Meredith, and yes, I love my name too.


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[Assistant] They didn't write Puttifa. Puttifa. It's always Puttifa. It says PDF. Terrible. I'm sorry. It's not super long, so I won't apologize for the length. It comes in around 8 minutes of reading time. That's the new thing that our listeners are doing.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you know, but this one, apparently the town is called Corvallis. Thank you for that. Uh, to be extra clear, that is a hard Oregon R. Oregon. Oregon. Oregon. Oregon. Oregon Trail.


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[Assistant] Oregon Trail actually read us to filth. On Twitter. The actual Oregon Trail game. It was like, it's Oregon, and I was like, get out of here, Oregon Trail.


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[Assistant] You know what, Massachusetts has terrible pronounced names too, so. Yea, say Lemonster. Say, say Peabody. Say Worcester.


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[Assistant] No beef with Oregon Trail. But yea, they were like, it's, it's no. Uh, it says my choir teacher in high school came from Boston and had so much disdain for the Oregon R. We hit that consonant hard. Hard.


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[Assistant] Equals Oregonian. See, I said it right. You did. But also, regional dialects are a real thing, so you do you. See, thank you for ending me with that one. Cause we're always like, regional dialects, guys, we say things different.


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[Assistant] Uhm, oh my everlove and whatever, it has taken me so long to get this out. Please be gentle, lots of feels involved here. Keep it real my lovelies. And they attached a bunch of photos, but we're gonna get to the listener too. Yay.


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[Assistant] It says, Dear Wonderful Weirdos, I've listened to you since your first episode, and while you've come a long, long way, I think you've stayed true to your vision. Thank you.


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[Assistant] But I'm secretly really glad she didn't cut the cussing, like Papa's suggestion suggested you gotta keep it real, am I right?


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[Assistant] Condolences on last year's losses and this year's early struggles. Congratulations on the many, many successes. You're really sweet. Aww, thanks. Specific to Ash and Drew, you're doing the damn thing. Much love to you. Thank you. Specific to Elena, you're an inspiration to wannabe writers everywhere, including me. I wanted to write from the time I was nine years old, but I was discouraged because my neurodivergent brain could never decide between first person and third person narratives. That took me...


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[Assistant] My husband still thinks I should write one of my personal tales into a book, but the convicted, the convicted creepo is out and walking around, so there is possible libel defamation shiz to consider. Damn. That sucks. You can make it like fictional though. Yeah, there you go. Take some artistic license with it and then you can write it down. Boom. I say do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I actually have several stories to share, accidental amputation comedy of errors, stalkers, serial rapist encounters, see above the guy who is out and about now. Oh no. Damn. And I'm not sure how to begin really, even after years of considering a submittal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So some details might be a tad inaccurate or fuzzy. I started writing this the day before what would have been her 80th birthday in October of 2022.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think perhaps the time is at hand. Hint, you mentioned one of the main characters on that episode.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yea, cause I brought up. You did. This man's. This man's. In any case, let's get to the case. When I was in my mid-twenties, I found out that my mom had dated a serial killer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It came up one day in casual conversation. Super casual, right? I have no idea why she told me she chose to tell me the day that she did. Mom was a night owl, always had been. Growing up, if I called to be picked up from school with a tummy ache, it typically took a couple calls to get her on the phone because she was reliably lying down napping.


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[Assistant] Years later, treatment for a previously undiagnosed thyroid problem resolved the majority of the excessive napping, but she was still always up late. Really late. Like, sunrise late.


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[Assistant] I guess this habit started in her youth, probably high school if she could get away with it. Grandpa was a stickler for proper behavior. But for certain as a freshman in college, she told me she would sit up at night listening to the radio and smoking cigarettes. Scandalous.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So as a freshman at Oregon State University in Corvallis, she would sit up late and listen to a local radio station, and for whatever reason, she called the station late one night and spoke to the engineer working the station. From what I recall, after several late nights conversations, he and my mom decided to meet. I love that this is like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Given that it was 1960ish, it was probably a very cute conversation where this guy bashfully asked mom out on a proper date.


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[Assistant] Mom told me Jerry had a kind, gentle, pleasant demeanor and a pleasant voice. Not Jerry. Can I just take a minute right here to mention how terrifying it is that this individual presented as kind and gentle? Yeah, you sure can. Yeah. Wait, did she say how old she was? Uh huh, she was a freshman in college.


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[Assistant] That was like the height of terror reed. Oh yea, big time. That was like American pie terror reed. Uh, but we digress.


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[Assistant] This is where details get really fuzzy. Mom and Jerry went out at least twice. I don't know what the order was and what they did on one of what I believe was only two dates, but on the date I know about they drove to the coast together. They drove to the coast together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I digress, I'm only guessing that this is the beach they ended up at because it was the shortest route to the coast.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The point being that they spent an extended period of time alone in a car with him as he drove on rural highways. That is really scary. Rural highways that to this day have long solitary stretches.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That outside of busy holiday weekends when everyone and their cousin and their cousin's best friends decide to escape to the coast are relatively solitary places.


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[Assistant] So here is my sweet little mama, all five foot two of her, alone, on a road trip, in a car, with someone who someday will be arrested as a serial killer. And here I am today to tell you about it because he evidently hadn't started killing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keepin' her up, cause I always think about that with these kind of stories, is like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You are, must be constantly thinking that every second that you were with that person, you got away with your life. Oh, totally. Totally. It could have been totally different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And at that point he was definitely going through it because he, he's the one that has all these like issues from childhood that he brought into adulthood. So he was like smacked out in the middle of his like traumatic issues here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All comes down to the shoe choice. It does. Thank goodness she got away with this. That is scary. Mom told me that they didn't go out more than a couple of times and that while he seemed nice enough, he was a little soft and homely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Definitely homely. You know what? I agree with her. He was definitely homely. Not a cute guy. And so she just wasn't attracted to him. Makes sense since she ended up with my dad who was movie star handsome with broad muscular shoulders and abs before abs were cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some of the listeners may have already figured out that I am referring to the one, the only, drumroll please.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Jerome Brudos of such hits as Lust Killer by Anne Rule and episodes 281 and 282 of Last Podcast on the Left, where Henry specifically says that Jerry couldn't get a date, so when he met his wife he married her ASAP, but I know, and now you do too, that wasn't entirely true. Welcome to My Mom's Secret.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My mom, smart, pretty, and from a good family, went away to college and went out with this nutbag in what I believe was autumn of 1960. Stories indicate he married Darcy in 1961.