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[Assistant] To dance. And how many times have we done the same thing? You just go out to have a night to dance. It just, I can't rap, my brain doesn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It like, it fucks my brain up every time I think about it because I can't think of that being, you, you have no idea that that's your life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That couldn't handle rejection. That was gonna make it there last night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're so unsafe. And that is the other layer to it, is that these people running these buildings had no


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so my, my experience with the glove guy, uhm, it was probably two in the morning, end of the night out, but I was walking home on my own.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, nice kind of looking car, black SUV, uhm, well dressed guy, and uh, he said, hey man, are you going somewhere? Do you need a lift? My first thought, it wasn't, I wasn't even


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, uh, yeaah, anyway, quite quickly as he was driving, he kinda said, so this is my deal, like, I give people rides, and, uh, I also sell gloves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he, as he was driving me, he was like, yeah, just like try on my gloves here. And he reaches over into the backseat and he brings out this like briefcase almost of gloves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'll humor him and uh, you know, check out his glove business. I'm not going to buy any gloves, but uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was, uh, he just said, yeah, just like, work it in and stretch it out and, uh, you'll kinda...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you'll get a feel for it, and uh, I'm most of the way home by this point. I'm trying to like, fit this glove on my hand and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, marriage was changing. Marriage, yeaah, love. Love. Love. When was the gun invented? Take a guess. Later than that. Uh, phew. They even have guns by...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I recommended it to you multiple times. You did. How was I supposed to sell it to you? I don't know. Was I supposed to run around a mansion saying, it's a matter of time. You didn't sell it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, you haven't watched the movie until you've watched that movie. There are some movies that on TikTok if you see certain scenes, it's like, yeah, I watched that movie pretty much.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Always gets the lyrics wrong, but her lyrics are always more fun. They are. And I'm like, I like believe them. Oh, with her whole heart. Like we were talking about it earlier, that Yoohoo song, like, she said Yoohoo. Yeah, from like, um, Jawbreaker. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I was singing those lyrics for weeks. Yeah, cause like, isn't that what it says? It says like, she said Yoohoo.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Remember, I can't think of the gang but we were doing a crime countdown episode and there was like another group of rich kids that got bored of being rich and made a gang and it was like the white bronco gang or something. You know what I'm talking about? We're gonna have to look back on that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Boomers look at Gen Z like, what the fuck? They thought millennials they hated? Oh honey.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At this point it's like, you're really not non-committal because like she lives with you half the time, she's always showing up at your doorstep, you might as well just fucking marry her and call it a day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I always just think of the America's Next Top Model shoot where they did all the sense. I literally thought of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, I was, this poor boy. I was like, Joseph. You got chilled. You don't know who you're dealing with. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's also like, why put this poor man through this if you're just gonna


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's chilling. Isn't that bonkers? Chilling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What a, what a woman, quote, question mark. What a woman. What a woman question mark. Truly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Damn, that was a crazy case, that was very captivating.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's crazy, and uh, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird! But not so weird that you do anything that Florence did in this case, because wowee, cuzowee, wow wow. Yayah! Bye!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh man. Ny mom! Sorry. We're in a place of Wiley today. Yea. I just had a little DC, I got my little caffeine from a DC dot coke. Didn't know what that was for a second, I'm not gonna lie. I know, I saw you looking around the room like, what did she recently have?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a twisty tourney case. I love a twisty tourney case. It's very twisty tourney, it is unsolved. Oh. And I am not gonna tell you what I think and you're not gonna say what you think because you'll see.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not sharing my thoughts, I'm just telling you the case. Okay? Okay. Okay. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In March of 1977, Arizona businessman Charles Morgan, he went missing from his home in Tucson, Arizona, only to turn up three days later in the middle of the night, shoeless, traumatized, and with broken plastic handcuffs over his wrists and ankles. Completely unable to speak,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He wrote that he had been drugged by an unnamed individual, kidnapped.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But refuse to tell his wife more than that and refuse to let her call the police or otherwise report the assault.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Three months later, Charles Morgan's body was discovered in the desert with a gunshot wound to the back of his head, one of his teeth wrapped up in a handkerchief, and a two dollar bill pinned to his underwear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I wanna just start you off by like really bringing you in. I'm not gonna tell you any more than that. Right at the top, we're gonna get into some other stuff. The tooth and the handkerchief. The tooth and the handkerchief. So the thing was, from the outside, Charles Morgan appeared to live a very normal and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For lack of a better word, unexciting life. But when investigators started digging into his background to find out who would have wanted him dead,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He married a woman named Ruth and they had four daughters, Megan, Erin, Heather, and Colleen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Friends described Chuck as, quote, quiet and dedicated to his work, family, and Masonic Lodge life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're awesome. That feels niche. An escrow genius at his little niche. He took a job with the country escrow service where he worked as an agent managing accounts and working on behalf of clients to mitigate risk, offer financial advice, execute transactions quickly and smoothly, the whole nine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This was the first of his two stints with the county escrow service. And outside of work, he continued exploring his interests in real estate finance and quote, dabbled in personal real estate deals. So he's kind of like, he's got like a money mind. He understands money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Money mind. And although he was considered to be a true profession- professional.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Too professional. Too professional. And by most accounts, really easy to get along with, like most people liked him. In February of 1977, he did get into a rather, uh, heated argument with his supervisor at Western Tile Insurance, or Tidal Insurance, excuse me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that resulted in his being fired for insubordination. Oh. Which seemed really abrupt. Yeah. But after his departure from Western Title Insurance, he ended up borrowing $30,000 from a Tucson-based lender in order to purchase a controlling interest in statewide escrow service with plans to build up the company.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For people who didn't know that, the state's hold on the transfer of shares seemed pretty odd, because for people who knew Chuck, they were like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's done stuff like this before, like he's an escrow genius. He's not like a suspect kind of guy or anything. Why are they putting, why are they so sus of this transaction? But what was equally confusing was, was, was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was that the delay was followed by warnings and threats from the state baking department to deny Chuck a license to operate statewide escrow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So now they're not only delaying the transaction itself, like the loan, but they're saying we're not even going to let you operate statewide escrow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was an attempt to force Chuck Morgan's cooperation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On May 4th, 1977, he was actually subpoenaed by the district attorney.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And after his testimony they released their hold on the statewide share transfer and the sale was approved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're not gonna let you have this until you testify. He did and he got, and they were like, cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now the case involved what amounted to insider trading and other acts of fraud committed by at least three Banco officials with whom Chuck Morgan had close relationships.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And following his secret testimony provided in May, Chuck told several individuals quote, that he feared for his life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I dunno. But however, when state officials offered physical protection for Chuck and his family, Chuck declined the protection and rarely spoke of the matter again. Huh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And left the house to drive their daughters to school, just like he did every other morning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No one knew it at the time, but the state banking department was breathing down his neck, pressuring him to testify in this Banco case.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It turned out that the case against Banco was only one of the secrets that Chuck was keeping at the time. Uh. Journalist Don Devereaux told producers from Unsolved Mysteries in 1990.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These were transactions that only existed on paper. He was a straight businessman that probably got a little too close to the flame.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's involved in shady sopranos type shit. Yeah, that's like high level shady stuff. Oh, you just wait, it gets higher level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that was great. Not clunky at all. Nope, at all. So, when Chuck failed to return home that evening, his wife Ruth obviously became worried.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she continued to worry as one day turned into two and there was still no sign of Chuck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But finally, on March 25th, three days after he'd left the house, Ruth was awoken by a loud thump at the back door in the middle of the night. And she remembered she was laying in bed and the dog started barking. Chuck had come home. But it wasn't that simple.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ruth was obviously super relieved that Chuck was home now, but once she took a look at him, her relief slowly started to fade away. She said, I got up, went to the door and opened it, and there was Chuck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He wrote that his throat had been painted with a hallucinogenic drug.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, I guess I won't, but like, what the fuck? I hate this. Yeah. How do you paint someone's throat? I don't really wanna know. That was my first


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I gotta stop asking questions. You should, for sure. But I still have that question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But according to Chuck, he'd been kidnapped, and the kidnappers had tortured him before administering this mysterious drug. But he refused to elaborate on who they were, quote-unquote.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ruth insisted that they needed to go to a hospital at the very least.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the very least, and report the assault to the police, but Chuck was like, nope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That will put me, you, and all four of our daughters at serious risk for further harm. So Ruth was like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now a short time later, once his voice had started to come back, which like his voice took a little while to come back, Ruth said.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he would make vague allusions to being, uh, to his being some sort of a secret agent for the US government.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Later, Ruth would tell unsolved mysteries. He wrote, they took my treasury identification. That was the first I'd heard of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then he told me he'd been working for them for about two or three years, and that was it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the only other bit of information that Chuck imparted to his wife was that quote, a $2 bill he always kept with him was temporarily taken in the kidnapping.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And remember, I said when Chuck is eventually found dead, a two dollar bill is attached to his underwear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This first time that he was kidnapped and allegedly escaped his kidnappers and came home that they temporarily took it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And why did he say the word temporarily? Like they're gonna give it back to me? Right. Like you're gonna meet up with these people again somehow? Or like, or you're gonna try and go get it back?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And once he does it, he gets that back. His two dollar bill and maybe his like identifications.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hate this. It's crazy. This is very upsetting. It's crazy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But what Chuck didn't tell his wife, but later told his friend and employee Jeff Tuberville, was that his kidnappers had stolen several platinum, excuse me, seven platinum bars from the trunk of his car, worth approximately $50,000.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You just had those in his car? I literally wrote, you know, the kind that everybody has laying around in their trunk. Like what? This was the first of multiple strange and unusual statements that Chuck made to family and friends after this alleged kidnapping.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the weeks that followed, Chuck, who always has, like, was completely clean shaven and kept his hair tidy and short, started growing his hair out and letting his beard grow. And he also started telling his wife and his close friends that he quote,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Area put politicians involving escrow and land deals and laundering money. He had all that kind of information on people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like the time he told Jeff Tuberville that an unnamed employer of his was quote, somehow messed up in the mafia and had threatened his family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there wasn't any direct evidence of anybody having threatened him. But still, Chuck became hypervigilant and paranoid about his safety.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I can't say I blame him. I don't blame him at all. After that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But despite the lack of evidence and the fact that one doesn't immediately think of Tucson, Arizona in regards to organized crime, Chuck's vague statements about the mafia and the land fraud are at least somewhat rooted in history, actually.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the early 1960s, New York City crime boss Joe Bonanno moved to the Phoenix area and he remained somewhat active in organized crime while he was out there. In 1960, Tucson police discovered the body of Arizona real estate promoter


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was the first of very few gangland-style murders in the Tucson area.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it was suggested that while not totally common to the region, there were some.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was into gambling and shylocking, but never admitted to any crimes of violence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the Bonanno crime ring wasn't the only criminal operation running in Tucson or Phoenix at the time. There was also a number of gangs and small-scale rings running drugs across the border and using Arizona real estate to launder the money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Throughout the 1970s, Arizona actually had laws and regulations that allowed land to be purchased through a blind trust.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Making it kind of the perfect arrangement for money laundering.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And these deals would almost certainly require an escrow agent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and they would be involved in fraud and money laundering. Which is actually kind of ironic because the entire idea behind having an escrow agent in the first place is to avoid fraud if something goes wrong with the deal. So it's funny that it's like this is actually showing fraud. Yeah, but you could actually find yourself wrapped up in it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, if Chuck was paranoid after his disappearance in March, he became decidedly more so after testifying in the Banco International case in May. Because remember, the state was breathing down his neck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now on the afternoon of June 7th, 1977, Chuck went to a work meeting around lunchtime and called his office a little before 1pm to let him know, let the office know that he was on his way back and he'd be there in about a half hour.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he never returned to the office that day or any other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After what happened the first time Chuck disappeared, Ruth this time didn't waste any time reporting the second disappearance to the police.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there was no evidence of a crime, so there really wasn't anything they could do to go find Chuck.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know that you had said, like, if I reported this, people were gonna come after us. Have they come after you anyway? Yeah, and it's like, are they now going to come after us? Yeah, you're probably just imagining, like, all worst case scenarios. What do you do in that scenario? I have no idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But Chuck had been missing for nine days when Ruth received a mysterious call at home from an anonymous caller.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ruth recalled that this, she said, this woman said Ruthie? I said yes. She said Chuck is alright. Ecclesiastes 12, 1-8. And then she hung up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which that's like a verse from the Bible. I was just gonna say, is that a Bible verse? Yeah, Ecclesiastes 12, 1-8.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As far as Ruth knew, that particular passage had no special meaning or relevance to her or Chuck, but one section jumped out at her. The woman said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay. So she just receives this, like I have chill saying this, this weird ass phone call.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she's sitting there trying to pick apart what this message means. This is a nightmare. An absolute nightmare.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, two days later, around eight o'clock in the morning, Chuck's body was discovered.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was found by two teenagers alongside Arizona Route 86, about 15 miles east of Sells, Arizona.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] His body was face down on the desert floor with a large hole in the back of his head.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That appeared actually to have been made with his own 357 magnum, which was lying by his left hand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Strangely, his eyeglasses, which he always wore, wore, excuse me, were attached to his left wrist, and he was wearing a black belt that concealed a large knife, but there wasn't any evidence that he had tried to draw the knife at any point.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When officers searched his car, they found that CB radio and the police scanner, as well as, quote, large amounts of ammunition and several weapons.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But one of the more disturbing discoveries came when technicians found


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A piece of one of his teeth in the backseat of the car wrapped in a white handkerchief with no idea how it ended up there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because they- It's like what the fu- Or maybe he just broke his tooth. And wrapped it in a white handkerchief and threw it in the backseat of his car. I don't know. That's fucking weird. I mean this whole thing is weird, I have no idea. I'm trying to find any kind of normalcy in here. There's none, don't even look. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the strange discoveries continued once the scene had been cleared and the body was taken away to be processed. The pathologist determined that Chuck had been dead no more than 12 hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Meaning that he had been alive nearly the entire time he'd been missing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when that person called and said Chuck is fine, they were telling the truth. They were telling the truth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's, that doesn't explain the tooth in the backseat. That just explains where the gun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and that's the thing, and even more strange, there were no fingerprints on the 347 magnum.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there was gunpowder residue on Chuck's left hand, indicating that he had fired a gun at the very least very recently, though not necessarily the gun used in his death.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, this fact struck Ruth as among the strangest elements of the case because according to her,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Chuck was right handed and she said he could do practically nothing with his left hand.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, like that this gun, this, uh, GSR on his hand. Right. And on his left hand? On his left hand. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Essentially do it with their help. And maybe there's no, that's why there was no.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's like even though that's such a strange angle too, cause- Oh, it's such a strange angle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doesn't make any sense, but it's like, I don't know. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The top, and that's, well I guess the top back of his head.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's not that strange of an angel's angle. It's still a weird angle. It's weird. But if you're- But doable. You know? Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The pathologist discovered, like I said at the top of the story, a $2 bill pinned to his underwear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was unclear whether this was the same two dollar bill that Chuck kept with him at all times, and he claimed had been taken by his kidnappers in March, but somebody had marked the bill significantly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the front of the bill there were seven Spanish names, beginning with letters A through G, and above them the note was Ecclesiastes 12. Oh. Yea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that really was someone calling. Absolutely. On the back of the bill, the signers of the Declaration of Independence were each numbered one through seven.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Map to say like he was involved in some fucked up shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now the crime scene, if that's what it was even, cause at this point they don't know, was deeply strange and mysterious, but as far as anybody could tell, like investigator wise, there was no evidence of a murder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even the county pathologist couldn't say whether Chuck's death had been homicide or suicide. So law enforcement officials luckily pursued it as though it could be either. They didn't rule one or the other out. I'm glad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the Pima County Sheriff's Detectives, the mystery surrounding the case was more frustrating than anything else. Because on one hand, the incredibly bizarre circumstances surrounding Chuck's disappearance and death suggested a conspiracy like right out of a fiction novel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because all the signers are numbered and then there was also seven Spanish names that were A through G written on the front of the bill.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If anybody, I hope, I'm assuming someone has like tried to find some kind of pattern here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the other hand, the physical evidence strongly supported the theory that Chuck's death had been a suicide. A strange and elaborately planned one, but a suicide.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was not his, like they knew it was not his? I don't know anything about the handwriting on the bill actually. So maybe, I would assume if it was his, like similar to his, that would be like a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is just a really con- this is a wild one. It's a strange one. And the suicide theory held no weight with Ruth or any of Chuck's close friends and associates. They all insisted he was, quote, just not the kind of person who would kill himself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course we know that people don't usually believe their loved one would take their own life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but in this case, the evidence was not that of a man on the verge of ending his own life, at least to how Ruth and the close people to him saw it. Yeah, and I mean, they're the ones who know him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And family friend Ronald Newman told reporters he had everything going for him. He was a family man and real active in the lodge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He had just acquired a new business, which he had been trying to do for a long time. He had finalized one of his goals.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, just driving that point home even further, in the months between his disappearance in March and his death in June,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why would he go so hard on this safety thing? To protect himself. To protect himself only to end it. Yeaah. Which I...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I could see people saying well like maybe that just got to be too much and he couldn't handle it anymore and if anybody was gonna end his life it was gonna be him. Like you could make that argument. But he was going so hard. And why?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It feels like somebody trying to disguise their writing. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This family obviously had no idea what was going on. And they have no answers. And you don't even know what he knew what was going on. It's like, what the hell is going on here? And then like we said beforehand, like is Ruth just spending the rest of her life thinking people are going to come after her and her kids at this point, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the first lead in the case came just a couple days after the body was discovered, and it only made things even fucking weirder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When Pima County Sheriff's Detectives received a call from a woman who called herself Green Eyes. That's when the first lead came in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to the caller, Green Eyes, she was the person Chuck had gone to meet on the afternoon that he went missing, and she was the one who called Ruth and gave her that Bible passage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Green Eyes told the detectives that Chuck had met her at the motel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the story Green Eyes told detectives was for sure very unusual.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And would likely have been considered a prank call or grouped in with tips from unreliable callers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Except that Green Eyes seemed to know quite a lot about Chuck's whereabouts and his personal life, to the point that Chief Deputy Sheriff Clarence Dubnik believed her to be credible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's because Green Eyes explained that she had met Chuck about a month before his death.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she had quote, been seeing him socially from time to time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So investigators followed up on the information that they'd been giving, given.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that briefcase that supposedly contained thousands of dollars was discovered in his car, but when they discovered it, quote, it only contained business cards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The call from Green Eyes gained further credibility when the sheriff received a call from a man who referred to himself as the husband of Green Eyes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this man told him quote, Morgan and his associates were involved in buying gold bars and gold coins in Mexico.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The man wouldn't answer any more questions from the sheriff and unfortunately investigators were never able to identify either caller. What? But they had all this weird information that was then, some of it at least, validated. What do you mean?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Presumably involved in gold dealings. Yea, cause he was keeping record of it. He was keeping record of it. While the purpose of the notes would remain a mystery, they did seem to corroborate what Chuck had told Ruth about his being targeted as a result of what he knew about powerful people.


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[Assistant] So while the notes about people in and around Tucson and Phoenix didn't seem to be connected to anything in particular,


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[Assistant] The notes about gold and land deals may have been significant.


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[Assistant] A few weeks after Chuck's death, investigators got information from the US Customs Service regarding an investigation that they had launched in 1973.


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[Assistant] According to their report, customs officials had received a tip that Chuck himself and two associates had been involved in what they called a scam to sell nonexistent gold.


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[Assistant] Also, according to that customs report, investigators weren't able to find enough evidence to secure a federal indictment, and the US Attorney's Office decided not to pursue a case. What the fuck? Which makes you wonder, like,


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[Assistant] This is interesting to me. Investigators thought it seemed unlikely that this was connected to Chuck's death. Which I'm like...


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[Assistant] I think that actually sounds like the very beginning of a murder.


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[Assistant] Voluminous records, telegrams, notes, and figures about buying and selling millions of ounces of almost pure gold that Chuck had been exchanging with people as far as Mexico, Switzerland, and England. Damn, that's deep. Like, you don't think that's connected? Like that's deep.


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[Assistant] That is rolling very deep, my friend. Right? Yeah. So by the end of the month, the Pima County Sheriff's Office was starting to put together a timeline of Chuck's movements from when he disappeared, quote unquote, on June 7th to when his body was found.


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[Assistant] Ruth Morgan had described her husband as missing for this period of time, but Green Eyes had referred to it as Chuck being in hiding.


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[Assistant] But from what investigators could tell, while he may have been staying in a motel, he didn't exactly appear to be hiding. He registered at the motel under his own name and several people reported seeing him as he quote, conducted routine business in the city in a normal fashion. Huh.


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[Assistant] So he's just not going home and calling his wife during this period of time, which is strange because people know him as a dedicated family member.


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[Assistant] Chuck Dennis, Chuck, trying to make it seem like Chuck is in a motel this whole time. It's like, no, he's around, he's fine. Huh.


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[Assistant] But then at the same time- This gets weirder and weirder. And it will only continue to. But then at the same time, was it Chuck that was registered at that motel? Because remember, when he was found, he'd been missing all this time, but they presumed that he was only dead about 12 hours when they found him.


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[Assistant] So it didn't look like he had gone into complete hiding. It appeared that for some reason or another, he was hiding from his family and his friends.


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[Assistant] I wish I could put these pieces together in any way. The only thing that I can think of is why he's staying away from his family and his friends is because he feels like his status as a target has heightened and he doesn't want them wrapped up in it.


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[Assistant] That's the only thing I can think of. But then he returns home in the middle of all that.


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[Assistant] And remember if he did think that he was taking care of it, maybe that explains the briefcase full of cash that he thought was going to get him out of this alleged hit on his life.


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[Assistant] They killed it in the end. Whoever it is. Maybe.


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[Assistant] And then it's like the two dollar bill of it all is so weird because they're keeping a two dollar bill for collateral. Well and it's like the writing on it. What the fuck does that mean? And the fact that Green Eye said she's the one who called Ruth and alluded to that same Bible passage that's then written on the two dollar bill.


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[Assistant] It doesn't, yeah. But then like, was like, that's all I'm gonna tell you, bye. And it's like, was she scared? Was she trying to like?


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[Assistant] I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. This is- This is- Bulkers.


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[Assistant] This is just such a weird one. It really is. So, and the problem with all these fantastical leads, if you can even really call them that.


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[Assistant] Coming into the sheriff's office was, while they were certainly interesting and compelling as we're sitting here trying to dissect them, they didn't seem to go anywhere.


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[Assistant] You're like, who the fuck is them? Yeah. And rumors and stories of him buying and selling gold and silver bars could have gone a long way to explaining his murder, if that's what it was.


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[Assistant] It seemed, at least to the investigators, like if he was trying to hide from somebody, he wasn't trying very hard, using his own name and being seen in public.


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[Assistant] Investigators toward their attention toward the evidence and leads that were more likely to be fruitful.


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[Assistant] As far as anybody could tell, Chuck's paranoia and his very strange behavior began around March, shortly after he left Western Title and set out to purchase that majority share and statewide escrow service.


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[Assistant] It was that decision that led him to Banco International where he had eventually secured a loan, but


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[Assistant] It was that relationship that led to his being pressured to testify in the state's case against Banco and several of its agents.


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[Assistant] Indicates that the case was related to several instances of fraud on the part of three members of Banco's board who were trying to buy majority stake in the bank.


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[Assistant] And because the case involved Chuck's former employer Western Title, and because one of the board's members in question was a man


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[Assistant] Who was actually representing Chuck in the purchase of a majority stake in statewide.


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[Assistant] So that tells you something, like Chuck was a key witness for this case. So I mean, that's something right there. And that's going to put you in danger. You have all these higher ups and these big companies doing insider trading and


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[Assistant] It probably doesn't bring a lot of great people around you. And I'm not trying to fucks with that. No.


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[Assistant] But the case was eventually settled out of court and in August of 1977 and


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[Assistant] It's, I mean that sounds like a, again, another perfect motive for someone. Another shady dealing.


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[Assistant] It doesn't seem like the most plausible. Yeah, that does not seem like the most plausible. By the end of June, there were a number of factors in the case that were causing sheriff's detectives toward the suicide theory and these included


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[Assistant] The location where Chuck had been discovered, the fact that it was very public and quote, did not indicate that somebody was trying to cover up a murder.


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[Assistant] Okay, but then also is it a show of like, don't fuck with us?


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[Assistant] Like, it could very much be that. They might not be trying to cover it up.


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[Assistant] So you're saying he decided to end his life in a very public setting? Like, in a very public area? I don't know.


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[Assistant] The killer likely would have rifled through his car or belongings to remove any incriminating evidence, but all of his papers and business documents appeared to be untouched.


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[Assistant] Did he just work himself up into a nervous breakdown? I mean, possibly. Maybe.


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[Assistant] So while those closest to him flatly refuse to accept that possibility, that


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[Assistant] Several colleagues and friends told reporters that Chuck often struggled with social relationships and quote, was an insecure man who seemed to need the approval of others more than most.


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[Assistant] According to one friend, Chuck quote, tended to create a crisis once in a while just so he could solve it. And although Morgan appeared to be a brilliant man, he always seemed to be in financial difficulty.


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[Assistant] quote, the entire board of directors resigned once they knew he was buying the firm.


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[Assistant] Also, he was known as an escrow genius, so you're gonna leave? I don't know. I don't know. Cause he's involved again, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. But a little over a month into the investigation, no new evidence had been found and all the leads had dried up.


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[Assistant] So with no evidence to support a murder case and no new tips coming in from the public, the sheriff's department issued a statement on August 10th.


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[Assistant] Announcing that based on the evidence and statements collected from those who knew him, Chuck's death was being considered a suicide.


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[Assistant] All the finger- and these are all quotes. All the fingerprints and footprints at the scene were Morgan's. There was no sign of a struggle of any kind.


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[Assistant] Two, the bullet that killed Morgan was fired at very close range from his own .357 Magnum revolver, which lay inches from his body, and large deposits of gunshot residue on his left hand indicate that he held the revolver barrel in that hand when he fired into the top of his head.


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[Assistant] This is interesting. So the sheriff's department is like, we're gonna go ahead and rule this a suicide. The county pathologist didn't challenge the sheriff's department conclusion.


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[Assistant] But they declined to classify the death as a suicide.


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[Assistant] And Chuck Morgan's death on paper with the pathologist remains classified as unknown.


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[Assistant] Oh, that's interesting. I thought so too. And the sheriff's decision to label the death as a suicide came as a big surprise to Ruth Morgan, Chuck's wife, and those closest to the family who remain convinced that Chuck was murdered.


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[Assistant] I feel really bad for them cause it's like- Cause then you don't have any answers. To not know. Yeaah. Ruth told Unsolved Mysteries in 1990, there's no way Chuck would have committed suicide. And if he had even contemplated suicide, he would have left a letter for his girls and for me.


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[Assistant] Wouldn't you, like, just based off the descriptions of how much he, like, he wouldn't even let his children leave the house unprotected. He wouldn't let strangers in the house. He wouldn't let Ruth go to the police because it was going to endanger the family.


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[Assistant] And, uh, journalist Don Devereux, who I mentioned earlier, he agrees with the family's theory. He said,


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[Assistant] In all my years as a journalist, a fellow take himself out in the desert wearing a bulletproof vest and shoot himself in the back of the head.


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[Assistant] I don't know, I mean, all of, honestly, all of these theories, you could say that makes sense. All of them. Exactly. Now sadly, Ruth Morgan unfortunately passed away after battling cancer in 2006, but according to their children, she remains steadfast in her belief that Chuck was absolutely murdered.


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[Assistant] Their daughter Megan told reporters in 2010, my father had a lot of information about people here in Tucson.


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[Assistant] Uh, that could have been very detrimental. There was a lot of information about politicians, people who are still alive that work in our government. He had a lot, he had that information and they wanted to silence him.


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[Assistant] Now, the 1990 segment of Unsolved Mysteries featuring Chuck's story actually generated a light flurry of interest in the case and resulted in, quote, more calls than any other in the show's history up to that point. Oh man, Unsolved Mystery was the way to go, man. You wanna get a case out there? That was the way to go. Especially the original one. So creepy.


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[Assistant] But among those tips was one from an anonymous source that quote, pointed to a paid hitman, then living in the Wilkes Bar Scranton region, who may have traveled briefly to Arizona to carry out a murder contract.


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[Assistant] According to this anonymous caller, the hitman supposedly quote, shot a Tucson businessman in the head in 1977 because he knew too much and then came back to Pennsylvania loaded with money.


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[Assistant] Plenty of people would. Like they just peace out. They're not worried about like, staging a crime scene here, they're just


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[Assistant] They're doing what they were paid to do and then they're out. A job that they've done countless other times too, which is like why you didn't find much probably. Now, a second airing of the Unsolved Mysteries episode a few months later generated more calls, some of which were actually routed to the sheriff's department and generated a new potential suspect.


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[Assistant] That is such a like concrete statement, like, I don't think we'll be able to go any further with this. Nope, probably not. Bye. Huh. I don't know.


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[Assistant] Now despite the activity and interest generated by the Unsolved Mystery segment, the leads unfortunately went nowhere, and Chuck's case was put back on the shelf. Jeez. But!


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[Assistant] The case popped up in the news again two years later when 35 year old Tucson computer technician, Doug Johnston, Doug Johnston, excuse me, was found dead in his car from a gunshot wound to the head. Investigators were unable to find the gun.


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[Assistant] Don Devereux, on the other hand, believes that the death, and this is fucking crazy.


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[Assistant] In order to stop him from further investigating Chuck's story because he was going like deep into it. Trying to get answers. Whaaat?


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[Assistant] Nor that there's a known, or that there's a known contract out on me for looking into the conspiracy, but I do know that I'm concerned and that they will probably come around again and this time they'll make it look like an accident.


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[Assistant] Wow. And those are just the facts of the case. But as of now, the death of Charles Morgan remains an open and unfortunately inactive case with the county sheriff's department and no new leads or suspects have been identified since the early 90s. And I don't know anything. I don't know anything. Isn't that a crazy tale?


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[Assistant] What a wild, wild case. A wild story. I feel for his family not having any answers. And I feel for Ruth. She went, she lived the rest of her life with all these questions. But luckily she was safe for the rest of her life at least. And I'm glad that his daughters were unharmed.


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[Assistant] Geez. But it's a spooky one. Very spooky. And one I will never read any further into. Nope, me either. And so with that being said, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But that's where you look any further into this case. Love you so much, bye.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think that's, again, I don't know the details of this, but I remember that this case was one that was like very confusing, because it's like, what happened?


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[Assistant] No, that's a whole different. Morticians and like mortuary stuff is a whole different, very uh, involved degree.


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[Assistant] I always thought about that. When we did Autopsies, I was like, the embalmers? Shout out to them. Because a lot of times I was like, oof.


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[Assistant] I know, like, people need to mind their own fucking business, to be honest.


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[Assistant] Now we're going down, it's like going up the hill of the roller coaster and you're about to take that dive.


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[Assistant] Like that's the other thing, you don't know what somebody's going through in their private life or their insides, you know what I mean? Like that's why.


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[Assistant] This is just like a really great thing that you would be able to do and since I can see, you know.


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[Assistant] That would have been the like ideal thing to do. If you have this notion, Bernie, then just talk to her about it. That's the thing. At the very least.


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[Assistant] And at that point, just be like, okay, if you're not willing to do it before you, you know, depart this earth.


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[Assistant] As the only friend she has, which is a powerful thing in someone's life to have that much.


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[Assistant] You know, authority over everything with her and also you've positioned yourself as her only confidant.


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[Assistant] Which I mean like obviously that is, she's been lonely a lot in her life.


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[Assistant] Yeah, this feels like a vulnerable situation, a vulnerable woman.


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[Assistant] You know, that takes away any of like the good deed points you would have gotten at any point during this.


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[Assistant] A lot of people do these things silently. Yeaah. And they don't tell anyone. Mhm. And they just do it. Yeaah. Because they wanted to do it, and that's it.


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[Assistant] And it's like, and it's always seems to be a thing where if you don't shout it from the rooftops, you're not doing it.


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[Assistant] And say hey hey hey, haven't heard from my loved one. My elderly loved one. Very worried about them. I'm so worried in fact that I would love you, the authorities.


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[Assistant] To go check on her. Check on her well-being. And they hang up the phone and then they don't do it for a month.


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[Assistant] Yeah. You know what I mean? 100%. It was focused on who did it and not what happened. Who was killed. Right.


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[Assistant] Just say like, wow, this is wild, and like, he's terrible, and we don't condone this. Like, maybe come out and say that. Period.


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[Assistant] To show what your client did to this little woman. And confessed to do. Yeah.


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[Assistant] But yea, it is macabre. You're right. Uh huh. But ask Bernie about it.


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[Assistant] So what you're saying is that when that becomes too much to handle in your work environment that you should just kill your boss.


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[Assistant] I mean, to put her in a, to put Marjorie in a freezer.


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[Assistant] And walk by her for nine months. Something's gotta be wrong. And spend her money. Feels more.


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[Assistant] Are we really trying to say that like, he was really stressed out? More stressed out than normal, so he murdered someone?


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[Assistant] Pretty much. Cause like I, right now, in this moment, I am very stressed out. I have a lot of stress in my life.


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[Assistant] The way it's played off on here, from what I'm seeing, is like, this looks like a comedy. Yikes. Like, I didn't see it, so I won't say it is, but like, the way they're advertising it is a little comical.


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[Assistant] Story out of like, uh, you know, I've seen dark comedies happen all the time. Fiction. Yeah. Like you made it up. Right. Like it didn't actually. In fact, on Google, when you type in Bernie the


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[Assistant] Like I understand movies being made about, you know, big cases and all that, like that's gonna happen, that does happen, that's happened forever.


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[Assistant] Like all three of them were like the, like Shirley MacLean plays Marjorie.


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[Assistant] We have podcast host, New York Times bestselling author, executive producer Queen Extraordinaire, and friend of the pod Holly Madison on the show today.


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[Assistant] Of course, but we're here today to talk about your not even new show anymore because now it's on season two, so the Playboy Murders, and I'm so excited to talk to you about it.


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[Assistant] We are basically just gonna dive right in because congratulations on season 2 and it's premiering January 22nd.


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[Assistant] It just hits all the things you, like you know what I mean, like the music, the coloring of it, like everything, I love it. It just drew me right in.


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[Assistant] No, it's so good. My husband Drew and I, we watched season one as soon as it came out and we were hooked instantly. And I wanted to ask you personally, like, what was it like putting the first season together? Like how much, obviously so much work went into that.


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[Assistant] Definitely, it's just so good, like it captivates you the second that you start watching. And you're sharing stories that need to be shared, like it's, like you said, there's stories that even you didn't know about and you're like very well versed in like the


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[Assistant] Yeah, definitely. Did anything change with your process, uhm, when, like, you were able to, were you able to pick some of the cases for season two, or did they bring all of the cases to you again?


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[Assistant] Yeaah. Has there been one specific case, either season one or season two, that really stuck with you, that like kept you up at night? I know for me it's like Dorothy Stratton and Starstow, those two ones just really stick with me.


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[Assistant] That's the thing, it's so twisty. It really is. By the end of it, you're like, what just happened? Like what happened? Everybody lost here. And you still don't, I think I still don't really know what happened, you know? Me either.


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[Assistant] But yeaah, I mean, we should probably just get into it. So Holly, we'll hand it over to you to kinda walk us through the case.


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[Assistant] It's cool that she got to follow in her dad's footsteps too.


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[Assistant] I think I read that she ended up not liking it because obviously it took on kind of like a life of its own at that point toward like the end of her like getting out of prison and everything.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Exactly. She was working for everything she wanted to work for and she was succeeding. Exactly. That's all you can ask for.


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[Assistant] And you can see why she thought that, you know? Exactly, it seems like they were looking for the first moment when they could clear it off. It was very performative, like, oh, let's hire all these people, like women and people of color and then completely get rid of them as soon as we can. Yeah, exactly.


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[Assistant] Like those clubs seem so glamorous looking on the outside. I think they really were. You know, like the chalet and all that, like it just feels like such a glamorous atmosphere. It definitely looks like it, but then there was like all kinds of shady stuff going on, like behind closed doors with the members and stuff.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and this is the guy that's supposed to like know you like, you know, intimately and know who you are as a person and know you're not a bad person, you know, like, so you're hoping that he can convey that to everyone else.


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[Assistant] And again, she's so young when this happens, like to have to step into the role of a mother to two traumatized, grieving children, like that's huge. Truly traumatized. Cause that's the sad part about this too is like you can search and search and search and there's like


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[Assistant] Barely any information about Christine, you know, cause it's really focused on like the shenanigans that happen afterwards. And it's like, I think you can find out that Christine was like 30 years old.


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[Assistant] She was a mother of two. That's really it. Loved her kids. And it's like, that's really all you can find out. So it is like always sad when somebody gets like left behind in these.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think it was definitely unpleasant. I saw some quote that said she was sick of his philandering ways, which you can kinda see. Yeah. He met Laurie pretty quickly. We can put two and two together.


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[Assistant] That's such a strange one. Yeah, that's sketchy that he was avoiding people. Yeah. Yeah, it's really weird. I wanna know who this guy is. I know. Is it your real hair? No. No. I'm willing to bet.


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[Assistant] That is so weird to me. I'm like, first of all, who flushes a wig down the toilet? And why would you call the plumber?


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[Assistant] Unless maybe you were trying to frame someone. Police officers? Yeah! Like if that was coming out of that house, you've all been police officers, like you all know how this works, that seems like a very silly thing for any of you to do to try to get away with it. That's such a good point. You know? Yeah. It really does.


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[Assistant] It must be so hard when you're just trying to like, prove yourself and trying to do your job.


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[Assistant] Which you have earned and worked for. And then being the victim's family, I would be so pissed off if that's what people were focused on, like the lawyer's hair or even the person on trial, their hair, their appearance. I could give two shits. I want to know did they do this or not. Exactly. That's what we're here for.


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[Assistant] Hey, why would she flush a wig down the toilet to get rid of it and then call a plumber to come find it? Why would she do that? Like she was a police officer. Why is no one being like that?


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[Assistant] They never even searched her stuff to see if she had one. Yeaah. As far as I know, no one ever found a green jogging suit. And it seemed like such a big deal in the case. Just more circumstantial evidence. That never should be used to convict someone. Yeaah, that's the thing because pretty much everything was circumstantial.


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[Assistant] And he's saying this was a man, this was a man's build, so like I'm sure of it. And I mean, he must, he saw this person's face too, this person was like choking his brother. Yes, standing right in front of him. Looked right at him, it's like, I know he was clearly being traumatized at the moment and was under great duress. Yeah. So I can't imagine how that feels, but like he got a look in his


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[Assistant] Well, and I was saying to Alina earlier, I really don't believe that Lori did it. I don't know if maybe she was involved somehow. I can't say one way or the other.


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[Assistant] To me, it doesn't make sense that, with Christine being shot at such a close range, I feel like she would have been able to fight off Lori. Cause Lori's a slim, like, she's tall but she's a pretty slim woman. I feel like she could have fought her off. But remember, she's gone through police academy training. That's true. Where you're literally


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[Assistant] Yeah, to be strangling a child. A strange line of thinking for her.


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[Assistant] They realized, like, she was there that night, it was her. That would be very messed up to attempt to murder one of them, and then...


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[Assistant] Just doesn't line up. And I feel like the boys would have, would have realized it was her and recognized her and been even more traumatized by that.


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[Assistant] That was another part to me that was just like, we're just gonna blow past that. You said she bought this specific wig with a check and she doesn't have checks. And it's like, whose name was on that check? Yeah, like find me the check then. Yeah. You don't have any records? That's just hearsay at that point.


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[Assistant] Crazy. I found his name too, it's uhm, Dominic Gugliato, I think?


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[Assistant] It is scary how the tide turns so quickly. It really does. And it's just, it kinda goes to show you like a lot of whatever happened in the, in the trial.


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[Assistant] Which to me, the fact that they were willing to give her time served for murder, I'm like, I don't even think you guys were convinced that she did this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is such a tragedy for Lori, one, and then for Christine too, that perhaps her, the real person that murdered her, I mean, got away with it forever. Yeah, and it's just walking around. Exactly. It's so scary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is mind blowing. When I read that, absolutely insane. I guess she severed an artery and like fractured a couple bones and then it became infected. So it was amputated from the knee down. Oh my god. It's so scary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it wasn't even worth it. Wow. Not that they could try her again, even if it wasn't, so it didn't matter either way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what a way to go, I mean that's awful. And what a life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Definitely. And there's all kinds of unanswered questions in this case, like I read that there was male DNA found on Christine's body that never really got tested and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, there was hair, I think it was the hair that was not the one found on Christine's calf, because I think that was the wig hair, but there was other hair found at the crime scene.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they came out, a hair analyst from a crime lab in Madison, Wisconsin concluded that they were consistent with blonde hairs that were found in Lori's brush.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then the medical examiner who worked on the case came out later and completely opposed that claim. And she said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So how did it end up there? Yeaah. That's so crazy. It is. And then I also read, and this is, I think this was just recently reported on that, uh, and it was reported on by Milwaukee Magazine. They said new ballistics tests revealed that the gun that Lori supposedly used was actually not the murder weapon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's interesting. And I couldn't find like really anything else on that, but they, they retested some of the guns and- It was at least coming into question. It was coming into question. So there's just a lot unanswered here. Oh, and then one more thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that's, that's interesting that he was in one of those pictures, and I'm not saying anything, it's just interesting that he was in one of those photos and that she was gonna go to the department with those photos, you know? It is interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know. There's just so much like dirty stuff happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In that environment that it's like, it's all been so tainted. Yeaah, it started with- It's hard to find any truth. It started with corruption and I feel like it ended with, at the very least, just mishandling. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's really sad, it's, it's so sad for Lori because I really don't believe she did it. And what a life. Again, I don't know who did it, but I really don't think she did it. And I think she, to have that kind of life based on that is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. I hope that somehow they could like test that DNA someday or, and you know, maybe the Playboy murders will make people wanna make it happen more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Perfect. You did a great job. That's a captivating story for sure. It is. And I'm just going to have you say really quickly where people can watch it because I did not ask you where people can watch the new show.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alaina. And this is Morbid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So tell me about this candle. You know, you light the middle of it and there's like all these other, yeah, they're like petals with, um, other candles attached to it. So you light this thing in the middle and then slowly it lights all the other candles and then it shoots all the petals out and it starts fucking going around in a circle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then it wouldn't stop. Listen, it's cool, but it wouldn't stop, like, humming Happy Birthday. It was like a music box, kind of. So we had to rip the fucking cord out of there. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Early 80s crimes and like true crime have a certain feel to them. Yeah, they do. They have a vibe that I don't


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, every decade was wild in its own way. The 80s?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Knowing what he does. Knowing what he does and you're like, I think of it like you're walking toward like your future, like happiness and like joy and you're the best guy I know and it's like you're walking towards somebody that beats the shit out of you, that's horrible.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm like, live your life the way you want to and if two people are consenting to that, that's one thing. But something's off here. That's bizarre to me. Just like you're forcing her to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I think three years later they got divorced and you say 1976.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that's tough for the kids, I guess. Like, I understand needing to move on and that's her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that was really great of her. That was a really good, uh. Jesus Christ, this story is so marked with tragedy. Full of predators. And predators. Alvin's a predator.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then the guy he's bringing along with him is gonna love the daughter. Oh god, this is fucked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If my future child at 26 years old came home with a 15 year old, he would be so far out on his ass, it would be next Wednesday. Exactly, that's why I'm like, get the fuck out of here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they just completely abandoned the plan where it seemed


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey weirdos, I'm Elena, I'm Ash, and this is morbid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, we cannot do that. So we are here and we're here for you and you are here for us. Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so I'm sorry Alina. I have to be here, but if you are scared of flying or anything like that, like it's cool if you want to like just go boop boop to the end and hear the paranormal stuff I think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot better since then. Exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean that would be my first thought. It's like, uh oh. Like something's wrong with the actual landing gear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anything that's even remotely connotated as anything negative. Never. Just always make it like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now there's all these people who are injured and deceased. Yup. And these alligators are like, it's feeding time. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would, I can understand that completely. Can you imagine somebody telling you you're in a plane crash? No. Like you just survived a plane crash? No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do you even know? Like your brain must be like, no. Your brain is just in full survival mode. I was gonna say it's in total survival. It's just like, no you didn't. Exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I can't even fathom what would go through your mind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, now at first the singing. Oh my god, that's so, that's so, that just fucked me up. Cause it's just a stark contrast of. You put Christmas carols next to anything dark and scary to me and it's, I'm, I'm gone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Florida, you're not okay. You're not okay. Like, you're bleeding. You're not okay. People are horrid. Holy...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You show up at the scene and start stealing things off of dead bodies? What? What? Where do you, where does you, what? Who? You, did you just go to sleep that night after that?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can't wait for that day, my friend. Like, what the?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm just like, my brain doesn't wrap around that. That is shocking. Unreal. That's one of the most shocking aspects.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Humans need to get it the fuck together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It honestly doesn't get more bleak than that. Like that's really fucked up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something happening with the autopilot thing. Exactly. And wasn't he the one that they insisted he wear glasses? Exactly. Ah. So it sounds like he was obviously having difficulty with some parts of his vision.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then why did they need him to wear corrective lenses? He was obviously having some vision issues if they were, they... It was a necessity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just make sure that that autopilot was sitting in the right position. Nobody was making sure everything was...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause that's kind, it, it popped into my head when you said like they, they put it on autopilot and just went about. Exactly. Really paying attention to this other thing. It's like, yeah, like. Put it on autopilot, sure. Two out of three of you should totally be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Figuring out what the hell is happening. But one of you has to have eyes on that. But one of you should be sitting there going, okay, everything is like keeping an eye on where you are, what the plane's doing, what the altitude is doing, what that autopilot is doing. It makes sense to me but I was like, I'm not a pilot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's like that autopilot is, is very powerful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it's just like, it's really nuts. And especially that's, I don't think it's supposed to do that in a situation where there's three people that aren't incapacitated. Exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't claim to know anything about flying a plane or being a pilot. No way. I can't imagine being a pilot. To me it's like one of the scariest and most impressive fucking jobs you could have. And it's like, so I don't know what you're supposed to be doing, but it just logically it makes sense to me that if there's more than one person and none of you are incapacitated at the moment that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You need to delegate that stuff to- That's a thing, cause there's- You're having eyes everywhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Holy shit. He's just looking out the window. Like, that's just like sadly looking out the window.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's like a group of people being like, uh, just a group of caterers and they're like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It sounds like they did too. Yea, like they don't have to worry about making sure that doesn't happen on those flights again. Exactly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was the chills I got during that, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the stuff you need to hear, cause then when you hear the bleakness of people stealing things off of dead bodies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is wrong with you? You gotta hear a little bit of people coming together to be good people, because everybody remember...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like that was shocking to hear that part. Yeaah. Those are the minority.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh absolutely. In general, we all have to believe that humans are...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good. And that the shitty ones just are the ones that shock you, so they're the ones that get all the, all the talk, but for this one?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Forget about those people. Forget about them. Forget about them. And think about the people who, you know, bud there. Who went running into jet fuel swamp. My guy. Without a second thought. My guy bud. And all these kind of people. And think about, you know, like, you know, Captain Loft and Don Repo who were just trying to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And again, they're just human beings. It was just a mistake of delegating. So it's like, that's really it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeah, fuck yeah. You will not change my mind. Don't try. They are Reese's Pieces. That's the way it is, you know? That's just the way it is. Things are always gonna be the same. It will always be Reese's Pieces.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is Listener Tales, and guess what? We handpicked a bunch of good ass Listener Tales for your little butt-butts with the help of one


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Halloween! I'm ready for Halloween. Halloween's here, and I decided that this year, I think I decorate mostly pretty early in September, but this year, September 1st. Oh yeah. Let's fucking go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Halloween's already started to creep into my house. I'm also going to your worst nightmare about like my most beautiful, uh, mayor. Mickey's not so scary Halloween party.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Woah. The way that this listener did attach propha? Question mark. Font size 14 double spaced. Read time 6 minutes 57 seconds. Pictures included. That was just in the header. Yeaah. That's a college student right there. They went for it. That's somebody with a degree.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You go out with your friends and you're shitted on Rubenoff and somebody shoots you in the face and you have literally no idea and then you find out months later because oh my god there's a bug man crawling out of your head?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Allison, that was unbelievable. Allison has like a really nice shade of blonde, like I like that shade of blonde.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because damn, if you look at the picture, which we are, that is so close to her temple.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It says, hello ladies, my name is Veronica, and yes, you can absolutely use my name. Veronica! Veronica! I am a 32 year old living in Las Vegas, uh, oh, you want me to say it a certain way. Nevada. Nevada?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do you say it? I never know how to say it correctly. It says Nevada, not, not, Nevada.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nevada. Nevada? Okay. Not Nevada. It's Nevada.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Trust me, after living here for over six years, I've learned that Nevadians get a little bit testy about the pronunciation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nevada. Nevada. Nevada. It's losing all meaning. It truly is. Well, it says, I just want to clarify that despite what the media tells you, Vegas locals do not live in hotels. We absolutely avoid the strip at all costs. And we know it's hotter than Satan's asshole after eating Taco Bell late at night. We don't like it either. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, it kinda sucked there and I hated it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I unfortunately moved here from San Diego, California to fortunately begin my wonderful life with my now husband. I love that, congrats! Since moving, I have graduated with my masters in human and social services.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm gonna say Nevada for you. You earned it. You get three who's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have attached a puttafa with a listener tail attached for your reading pleasure. It's a long one, but I'm hoping it's worth it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It says, so this is the part where I tell you guys how absolutely amazing you both are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, onto the reason as to why I am writing this listener tale. You see, I've always been a bit sensitive to energy, whether it's people's energy or the unexplained. I wouldn't say I see dead people, I'm not as cool as the kid in the sixth sense, but I definitely sense shifts in energy or see shadows move from the corner of my eye.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now I should note that I have always been a spooky bitch. I have always loved the paranormal, horror, true crime, et cetera. And you honestly will probably find me with that type of book in my hand, looking at you, Elena. Hell yea, The Butcher and the Wren at thetinyurl.com slash The Butcher and the Wren, except don't go to that link because I think it's not in service.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's horrible. Were you that young when it started? Yeah, I was, I think, I was around that age, I think. Ooh, that's terrifying. It started out as small episodes here and there, so I dismissed it as nothing serious. While I knew what it was, I never thought it was a big deal. With my episodes only happening occasionally, I didn't think it could get any worse. Boy was I wrong. As I got older, I began to surround myself with the wrong people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At 17, I went through a fairly abusive relationship, I'm sorry, that I kept secret for years. During that time, the sleep paralysis increased to the point where I would jolt awake screaming or crying almost every night.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About a year later, I found myself in another relationship that lasted for almost seven years, which also turned out to be emotionally abusive. Jeez, I'm sorry. You did not deserve that and I'm so sorry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, my sleep paralysis became worse and there would be times that I would wake up completely paralyzed and feeling like I was being suffocated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then, in 2016, I reconnected with an old friend from high school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Obsessed. My husband and I have known each other for most of our lives. That's beautiful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We dated shortly in high school before you moved to Nevada. Nevada. You deserve it. You deserve it. We still can't agree on who broke up with who back then, but he a thousand percent broke up with me. Nevertheless, we stayed in touch occasionally throughout the years as friends. In July 2016, I came out to Vegas after a breakup.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And asked if you wanted to catch up. Look at you, bitch. Look at you. You're just making things happen. Killing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Today we've been together for seven amazing years. I love that. And I now have the pleasure of being a bonus mom to two beautifully brilliant girls that I love with all my soul. I'm gonna cry. I love this so much. Side note, we got married at the courthouse on December 13th, 2019. It was a Friday the 13th.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And had a big wedding on Halloween 2020. Hell yeaah. In Krayob. It was amazing and our wedding photographer dressed up as a banana. That's amazing. I'm not sure how it gets any better than that. It doesn't. To be honest. No it does not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Since being with my husband, I have only had sleep paralysis once. It was at the beginning of our relationship and we were dating long distance at the time. I was in Las Vegas visiting and job hunting so I could move. His room at the time was set up where the bed was directly next to the door.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This detail is important later. It was about 4.30 in the morning and I heard him call my name.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This went on for about a minute and then I began to feel a warm sensation all over my body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I attempted to move again, I still couldn't move my body, but I was able to move my head.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know I'm absolutely blind without my glasses, but even my blind ass knew that this figure was not my boyfriend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever it was, it looked like it was waiting for me to acknowledge it so it could enter the room. And it was calling me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I kept thinking in my head, go away, you're not welcome over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over and over in my mind. It felt like forever, but eventually the paralysis broke and I was able to move again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The second it broke, I looked at the door and the shadowy figure was gone.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] While I don't have sleep paralysis anymore, I'm still fairly sensitive to surrounding energy, and I often experience lucid dreams when I'm stressed. Me too. Interesting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being a doctoral student, I think it goes without saying that it happens fairly often. I occasionally have a recurring dream of an old woman looking into the kitchen window of our home. Sounds creepy, right? Well, that's what I thought too. But when I see her, she has an oddly calming presence that makes me feel like she isn't here to cause any harm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She never speaks, never tries to enter my home. She just looks at me and sometimes will gesture if she's trying to tell me something. I feel like she's one of your like spirit guides. I kind of love her. I do too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Since then, he's very hesitant about these types of interactions. So when I told him about the old woman in my dreams,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was quick to tell me not to let her in the house or even to speak to her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then the day occurred that forced me to come to terms with my sensitivity. I had the dream like always.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I walk into the kitchen I see the old woman looking into our window.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't like that. However, this time something felt different. I immediately knew something was wrong. Oh fuuuck that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The old woman began pointing at the front door as if she were telling me to open it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I shook my head and began to walk away when she began pounding on the window and yelling at me to let her in. I have chills over my entire body. The pounding then moved to my front door and grew louder and louder. I ran into our living room, which is right next to our kitchen and huddled up on the corner of the couch to get away from her quote unquote.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Suddenly, the pounding stopped and everything went dead silent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I immediately felt a sense of peace and looked over at my bedroom door. There, standing in the doorway, was my cat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I still see the old woman on occasion, but she's just back to her normal self, just standing there and never speaking. Her presence is still calming and I'm not afraid of her despite the terrifying dream.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think a lot of my experiences had to do with being constantly surrounded by negative energy, trauma, and stress. Now when they happen, if they're particularly bad,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well ladies, there it is. My long-winded story about how my sleep paralysis demon reminds me to engage in self-care and kick out the negative energy in my life. The people pleasing side of me says to apologize for the long story. No. But I already hear what you're going to say, so I won't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hollies and Slammers. Well, you can get them on Amazon if you want some.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why would she open the elevator door and go back down?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like that's gonna make me cry. I know. That made me feel things. You didn't get a dad out of it, but you got a best fucking friend's sister out. Hell yeah! And that is fucking cooler than a dad in my opinion. And...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Roxy also brought you back, fucking, what are these? Pogs and Slammers. Now you get pogs, you get pog retro caps in a neon purple storage tube. Hell yeaah. Roxy forever. Oh yes. You're welcome. I'm so excited. I'm happy for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can get me a Neopet because those just came back. You actually don't purchase them at all, but like make me an account or something. Okay, I'll make you an account. Alright, cool. I feel as though we have time for one more. I feel like we do. Do you feel as though?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel this though. Alright, I'm gonna keep with the trend here and do Spooky Nanny Saves Lives. I love that. Pour One Out For Nannies and Grammys and all of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hope you lovely people are doing well. My name is Mickey. You can use it. It's a nickname for my great grandma- grandfather, excuse me. Yes, like the mouse.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've been listening to your podcast since May of 2022.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I started from the beginning and have slowly been making my way through all the episodes. I have a bad habit of bringing multiple episodes, or binging multiple episodes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Y'all are great company on the super long drives I go on to visit my parents, keeping me company and from going insane by myself with no one else to talk to but my squishmallow road trip companion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alaina, congrats on the success of your book. Thank you. I have not read it yet. Forgive me, I am a ball of anxiety TM. That's okay. On a good day and struggle with suspens- suspenseful books and shows. But I've heard a lot of wonderful things about it and I have added it to my ever growing to read, to be read list. Thank you. Ash, congrats on the engagement. Thank you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've been meaning to send this tail in for a while now. It's been sitting half finished for like three months, but I finished it and I'm very excited to share it with you. It's a bit of a lighter, more wholesome tail compared to some others that you've read and might be a good palate cleanser after a heavy tail. There you go. It's like you knew.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hey weirdos, this is a pretty long tale with stories within the story. That's fine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] All about my grandma's experience with a ghost simply known as Ma'am. Ma'am.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think my family, specifically on my mom's side, is sensitive to ghosts or something, mainly due to the members of the family having some sort of experience or interaction that was not easily explained. For example, my mom smelling my long-dead great-grandfather's cologne in a place he never visited since he died before it was built. Whoa, that's wild.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I've even had an experience that maybe could have been a ghost. In college, I lived in an old frat house turned into a sh- into shared housing that was definitely haunted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But this is not about me. So maybe I'll send in that one on a different day. Please do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Today, however, I wanted to offer up a more happy and comforting spooky story that my grandma told me when I was young, probably like third or fourth grade.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that I remembered recently after listening to your podcast. I was able to catch up with her over Thanksgiving and get the full story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also, this will probably be pretty long, so feel free to skip over one or two of the encounters, or any of the added history or commentary in parentheses. Though I have a good feeling you won't. Hell no. And I won't. Anyways, on with the story!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I believe at one point it was a government or office building at one point. Not really relevant, but still kinda cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My aunt was either a very new baby or just not born yet when they moved in and shared one of the bedrooms with my mom while my grandparents used the other. There was an attic, uh, attic which was later converted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Into my grandparents new bedroom and gave my mom and aunt separate rooms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The bedrooms were in the front of the house facing the road with the living room in the middle and the kitchen slash dining room in the back of the house facing the yard and an unattached garage. I really hope this makes sense. It does. It does. I can picture it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right off the bat, things started happening in the house that couldn't really just be explained away. And I mean like right away. The first night they spent in the house after buying it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My grandma recalled waking up to hearing all the plates and other dishes that were not quite fully unpacked rattling away in the dining room.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or woke up to it as well. And my three year old mom and maybe born, maybe not tiny baby aunt were fast asleep in their room. Nobody else on the house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My grandma swears it only happened that first night as well. She likes to think that it was ma'am making herself known as a resident in the house. I'm obsessed with ma'am already. I love that. She's like, just so you know, I'm down here. Ma'am in the house. What? What?


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[Assistant] After that, my grandma always felt a somewhat comforting presence in the house, never threatening, at least not towards my family, never hostile, just there and watching over them.


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[Assistant] My grandma thinks ma'am's love of my aunt is due to the fact that she was the first baby, maybe, to be born and raised in that house. And that ma'am saw my aunt as her baby too. And since my aunt was also her baby, she was ma'am's to protect. Oh, I love that a lot.


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[Assistant] One instance of ma'am's protective instincts came out when my aunt was still pretty young, meaning likely under a year old.


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[Assistant] My aunt at the time was sleeping in a stroller, parked in a sunny spot near the palm trees.


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[Assistant] While my grandma's tending to the plants in the yard, she suddenly got an overwhelming feeling of something telling her she needed to move my aunt's stroller.


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[Assistant] My grandma brushed off the feeling as, you know, just a weird passing thought. A few seconds later, however, the feeling came back even stronger.


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[Assistant] Something was telling her, hey, you need to move that stroller right now. Move it. Ooh. Ooh, that like gave me chills again. This time she listened to the feeling.


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[Assistant] Moving my aunt and her stroller away from the sunny spot to a more shaded area. This made her a little fussy, but in the end was really, really fortunate.


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[Assistant] As but a few moments later, a big ol' palm found from- Frond. Frond.


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[Assistant] Now, I don't know how much you know about palm fronds, but those suckers can get really freakin' heavy. Damn. I didn't know that. Like way up to a hundred pounds heavy. Holy shit. I shit you not.


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[Assistant] And the palm trees at the house were not short trees either, so this big palm front comes


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[Assistant] My grandma believes it was ma'am telling her to move the baby, as if she knew the palm frond was about to fall and wanted to protect my aunt.


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[Assistant] Another instance happened when my aunt was about two-ish years old, able to walk, but still pretty young and not super aware.


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[Assistant] He ended up dozing off for a while. I assume it was one of the sunnier summer days, but I'm not 100% sure.


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[Assistant] Suddenly, he was startled awake by the feeling of an ice cold hand on his shoulder.


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[Assistant] My aunt must have woken up from her nap and decided to go exploring, following the clear path from the back porch.


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[Assistant] The final incident I'll bring up happened when my mom and aunt were a bit older. One night, probably when my aunt was about three or five years old.


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[Assistant] My grandma woke up in the middle of the night. Nothing crazy woke her up, but when she awaked, she realized the lights in the living room were on.


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[Assistant] That was weird seeing as she definitely turned them off before going to bed, distinctly remembering going to each light and turning them off.


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[Assistant] They didn't have a switch, you had to manually turn each one on and off.