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[Assistant] But later, once the scene had been cleared, he went inside to go thank the woman for the tablecloth.


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[Assistant] Wow. Yeaah. That was nice. And there were nice ghosts in there, that's the thing. There's some really fucked up ones, but then there's some nice ones. Yeaah, that one's nice. Here's a tablecloth. I agree. So as spring turned to summer, Bobby was doing a bunch of renovations and, uh, Bobby and Janet, and they were starting to, you know, come along slowly.


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[Assistant] Until a fire threatened to undo everything that Bobby had planned for the club.


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[Assistant] And when firefighters got the call, they were told that the fire was of an unexplained origin. Oooh. And that it had started in one of the older parts of the building.


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[Assistant] Now according to the fire chief at the time, Edward Sendelbach.


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[Assistant] But they were enough to push back the official opening of the club a few more months.


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[Assistant] So later that summer, things at Bobby Mackie's Music World!


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[Assistant] Janet and Carl though were still hearing weird fucking noises in the club. Good. But there hadn't been any more violent encounters. Even better. The one that Janet had in the kitchen with the blood in the hand. Cause that was violent for everybody. Very violent. Yea.


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[Assistant] And this time, it was really scary because remember, she's pregnant. Oh, I forgot. So this not only threatened her life, but the life of their unborn baby. Oh no.


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[Assistant] This is scary. So according to Janet, she'd been cleaning the office on the second floor and suddenly she got a weird feeling like she wasn't alone in the room.


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[Assistant] And as she swept her way back out of the office and onto the landing at the top of the stairs.


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[Assistant] And the shock of, you know, that happening and no one being there caused her to cry out and whatever had a hold of her actually let go momentarily.


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[Assistant] So obviously that fucking terrified her and at that point she was six months pregnant. Oh my god. And looking back on it she later said, I was so terrified because I thought I was going to lose my baby. Yeaah. I was angry, I was terrified, I was everything.


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[Assistant] So obviously taking a fall like that when you're pregnant is really concerning, no matter how far along you are.


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[Assistant] So they decided, Bobby and Janet, to go right to the ER. Yeah. And Janet actually ended up having to be induced. At six months? At six months. Holy shit. So she gave birth to a baby girl who at the time weighed only one pound and 15 ounces. Little squirt.


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[Assistant] Now the baby had to stay in the hospital for weeks, but then she was finally stable enough to go home with her parents. Oh my god, she lived? She lived. Wow. Can you?


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[Assistant] That is six months, like they are supposed to be in there another three months.


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[Assistant] Damn. That's so scary. That's really scary. And even though there was like the immediate danger was totally behind them, Janet was done and she refused to step foot in the club again.


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[Assistant] What the fuck, like, that's really scary.


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[Assistant] And you are onto something, so good, good, good, following your vibes there. Good job. I just was like, good, good.


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[Assistant] One, he didn't want any bad publicity or rumors negatively affecting the business. That's the thing. That seemed to be like his thing throughout this whole journey of like not wanting to affect the business but I was like


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[Assistant] No, people love haunted shit. Oh yeah, people would be there from all over. You know how many most haunted things in the world there is? Oh yeah. A million. So many.


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[Assistant] But also, he hadn't experienced any of the supernatural phenomenon himself and for that reason he still didn't believe in ghosts. I don't know about that Bobby. Bobby's a I gotta see it to believe it kind of guy. Oh boy.


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[Assistant] So throughout trying to open the club, obviously, there was a lot of setbacks. And the last one was a faulty sprinkler system. Oh.


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[Assistant] They realized it during the fire, and since that...


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[Assistant] And since that posted a serious safety risk the opening was pushed back yet again.


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[Assistant] So Bobby promised to the fire department into the town that he would have it repaired. And in September he was finally granted to.


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[Assistant] Bobby Mackie's music world! Of magic. Of magic. And grander. Had its grand opening with performances by Jack Reno, I think, and Bobby himself. Oh, cool. He's actually really fucking talented. But unfortunately, the excitement of the grand opening was very short-lived.


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[Assistant] Because in early December, Bobby got a written order of closure from the Kentucky Fire Marshal. Are you kidding me? Which gives me coyote, uh, ugly vibes. Oh yeah? Because he failed to fix the sprinkler system. Oh god. He was like, yeah, yeah, I'll get that fixed. You're supposed to do that when you say you will. Yeah, you definitely are. I guess he had like a lot of other things going on. He had pinky promise and then go back. Yeah, no takesies, backsies, Bobby.


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[Assistant] But the notice also specified not only would Bobby need to fix the sprinkler system, he would also need to fix any other faulty wiring. So now they were going to have to go through the whole fucking place and figure it out. And he was a bit worried because fixing those issues was one, going to be costly on top of everything else he'd already put into the club.


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[Assistant] He might need to start all over again from scratch. You know?


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[Assistant] You should've, because fortunately, the interruption was only temporary, and Bobby opened back up just a short time later, without having to move the business. I love that you got British there. I don't really know why I did, but it happened. Crystals. Um. Crystals. But I'm like, he opened up without having to move the business, was that a good thing or a bad thing? Eh, probably a bad thing. You decide. I will.


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[Assistant] You will. I will. Now the major problems behind them are so they hoped.


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[Assistant] Bobby's hard work did seem to be paying off again. The club was doing really good business, especially on the weekends, and it was getting really good reviews. But the supernatural experiences continued.


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[Assistant] And as he was riding the thing started to speed up out of control. My god. And it reached full speed. Oh damn. So Mike called out like slow this fucking thing down Carl, but Carl couldn't control the machine and it had gone nuts.


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[Assistant] And Mike said it was like some force took control of the bull. Yea, the force you made fun of, man. No, listen. This is the only story that I doubt.


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[Assistant] But beyond the owners and the customers of Bobby Mackie's, even people who came to do work on the place experienced strange happenings. Yeaah, stay away. Stay away.


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[Assistant] One afternoon, a carpenter, Johnny France, which like, what a fucking name. Hey, I'm Johnny France. I'd be like, yeah, you are. I feel like he was hot. Johnny France had to have been hot. Johnny France has to be hot. That would be so disappointing if like, I didn't think he was hot. Yeah. Cause like, opinions. I didn't want to say like, if he wasn't hot, cause like, you might think he's hot, but like, I might not. Opinions, you know? Johnny France, you know?


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[Assistant] Yup, but he was doing some repairs. And while he was working, he claimed that he saw, quote, an entire row of chairs fall over, one after the- one after another, as if they were dominoes. Maybe they were.


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[Assistant] They weren't. They were chairs. And according to France, the chairs, quote, fell over as if something invisible was in the room walking between the chairs and knocking them over. Ooh, that's spooky. Isn't that so creepy?


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[Assistant] So this only solidified his feeling that the club was haunted. Yeah, I'd say so.


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[Assistant] Now, while the ghost story circulated among the patrons and the staff at Bobby Mackey's and the people that did work for them, everyone just seemed like, amused by them.


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[Assistant] But Carl, on the other hand, was getting increasingly obsessed with these hauntings. Good for him. You know, like live in... Have an interest. Live in research. Yea.


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[Assistant] One day while he was cleaning the basement, he noticed a loose floorboard, so he pulled it completely loose and he found a hiding place where somebody had hidden a diary. Oh, jackpots. Jackpots.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Vibes, but country too. Yeah. Anyways, uhm, Karl found the diary of Johanna, a former showgirl. Oh shut the fuck up. Which like immediately resonated.


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[Assistant] He also was like, you definitely can't pursue them. One, you can't have those feelings, and two, you better not pursue them. Don't.


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[Assistant] Now, when he found out that they were carrying out a relationship secretly... You made it forbidden, man. You made it better. Yeah, and he forbid them again. He was like, I forbid you, Johanna!


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[Assistant] Johanna, from seeing this man ever again, and actually, I'll fucking kill him if you see him again. I'd be like, dad, Jesus. I'd be like, you're kind of homicidal, and it's really weird. That's a lot.


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[Assistant] So later, this musician disappeared without a trace. Oh shit. And Johanna, Johanna, immediately suspected her father. Well yeah, he said he would kill him. I would suspect him as well. Same disease. So she poisoned her dad, and then she took her own life.


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[Assistant] And she vowed, she vowed, I said, to roam the halls of the nightclub until forever, waiting for the musician to return. I'm sorry, once?


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[Assistant] Maybe she was pregnant at the time of her death and she resented Janet's pregnant presence in the club.


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[Assistant] But the thing is, Carl's gonna realize that in due time. Oh good. Okay? Alright. Carl's smart.


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[Assistant] So a lot of people, not including me, were skepticable. What did I just say? Skepticable.


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[Assistant] So, but, okay, so they were skeptical about if she existed or not, but there actually is verifiable proof of the other two ghosts that Carl believed were haunting the club. Awesome. So the night after he discovered


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[Assistant] Uh, Johanna's Diary. Carl, who was living in a space above the club at that point, like a little apartment, he woke up from a deep sleep and couldn't breathe. Oh! So he slowly started being able to breathe again, but as he got like all of his breath back, the power in the entire building went out.


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[Assistant] As he was down there he happened to notice yet another loose floorboard in the basement. Look at this man. I know.


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[Assistant] This is why I don't recommend looking into Wells. Became erratic and unpredictable. Yeaah. Looking back, Bobby recalled, it got to the point where I wouldn't know which Carl I was talking to. I'd have to talk to him for a little while to figure out how to deal with him because he always seemed to be different. Poor Carl. I know, he was going through it.


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[Assistant] Because the thing was, when he discovered the well, Carl became convinced that the stories that he had heard about Pearl Brian's head were true. Which it could be.


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[Assistant] Now he was worried about the malevolent spirits in the club, and he was worried that they were- wait, I fucked that up, sorry.


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[Assistant] He was worried that the malevolent spirits in the club were actually Pearl's killers.


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[Assistant] Would not stop until they had driven everyone out of the club for good. I fully believe this. Me too.


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[Assistant] Now, as we all know at this point, since buying the property and owning the club, Bobby had completely dismissed any claims of this place being haunted.


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[Assistant] But in the weeks following the discovery of the well in the basement, he just couldn't ignore the fact that something was causing Carl a whole lot of distress.


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[Assistant] He also wanted to cause, wanted to relieve whatever was causing Carl so much stress. Yeah. So he reached out to his friend Doug Hensley, who was a paranormal researcher and who was actually living in the area at the time. He's a good friend. I know. And Doug was like, you know what? I will do whatever I can to help you. Now, this is fucking wild. Oh man, I'm strapped in.


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[Assistant] So during his research, cause you know, he likes research just like us and Dave.


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[Assistant] Hensley came across like numerous stories of the tragedy and the death that occurred on the property where the club once stood.


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[Assistant] But the one that stood out to him the most was the murder of Pearl Brian. Hell yeaah. Obviously. So he dug deeper and deeper into the story.


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[Assistant] And he found out that while those two killers stood on the gallows waiting for the door to drop out beneath them,


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[Assistant] No, I fully believe that. I believe it. It makes sense. I think they probably just like can't get back there. It might just be too deep. Who knows how far that goes down. Exactly. So between the discovery of the well and the other haunted happenings at the club and the changes in Carl's behavior,


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[Assistant] Right? Yeah. Right? Yep. Hold for applause. Absolutely. Like of course, like Patricia Michelle. Yeah. What a great name.


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[Assistant] Now she claims that she has the ability to communicate with the dead and she has had that ability since she was a child.


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[Assistant] And as soon as she got to the club, she told everyone there, which I respect, that she didn't want to know anything about the property, didn't know anything about the history, and didn't want to.


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[Assistant] And she wanted them to stay completely silent while she took a walk around and looked at things. Hell yea.


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[Assistant] So in one room, she actually did get the impression of the spirit of a woman who said her name was Johanna


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[Assistant] I knew it. I knew she was coming back. She was real. Now according to Patricia, Johanna knew that she was dead and said that she wanted to stay at the club to wait for her boyfriend to join her.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I think so. What if he like actually never died and he just left and went somewhere else? Wow, that would suck. That would suck real bad. Like, I think the dad killed him. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Now, after touring the upper floors of the club, Carl, Bobby, and Doug went with Patricia down into the basement.


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[Assistant] Where she got an entirely different and way more aggressive feeling than she had in the room with Johanna.


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[Assistant] Pulled back the hatch on the floor to show her the dark shaft that used to be the well.


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[Assistant] And Patricia said that inside she saw Pearl's head floating in the well.


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[Assistant] And she backed away from it. Like she like visualized it. Now later she talked about the experience and she said,


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[Assistant] I felt like I was spinning. I couldn't wait to get out of there. I'm telling you. I am telling you.


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[Assistant] They put Pearl's head in that well. Right. I know it.


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[Assistant] So back upstairs, Patricia filled everyone in on what she saw as she walked the building and she told them


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[Assistant] I think what is in Bobby Mackie's nightclub are ghosts that believe there is no place for them to go.


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[Assistant] So they would prefer to live in this nightclub than to go on to a place where they may burn for eternity. Because they're assholes. Exactly, some of them. Some of them, like the guys. Exactly. And Johanna's probably afraid because, you know, like she did kill her dad.


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[Assistant] Yeah, there's that. But she also explained that she did believe Scott and Alonzo were specifically targeting Carl. Yeah. And she said they were using him as a conduit for their rage and causing him mental anguish in the process.


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[Assistant] Poor Carl. I know, right? So she said the only solution would be, uh, to have a priest or a minister come out and bless the space and to have an exorcism for Carl. Oh.


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[Assistant] So Bobby, after all of this y'all, still didn't believe in ghosts. I mean, one thing about Bobby is that he's gonna stand his ground. That's one thing about Bobby. You're not gonna sway Bobby. Two things about Bobby. He's gonna stand his ground and write a great fucking song called Johanna.


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[Assistant] Those are two things about Bobby. Two things about Bobby. Three things about Bobby though. He's a good friend.


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[Assistant] He is. So he agreed to find somebody who could help them with an exorcism, because he was worried about his friend. Hell yea. So it took some time and, you know, a few uncomfortable conversations with people, but eventually he came across this guy that he knew, Larry Kidwell, who thought that he might know someone who could help.


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[Assistant] Larry happened to work in television and radio advertising and the reason he actually knew Bobby was because they had worked on a commercial for the nightclub together.


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[Assistant] They weren't really close by any means, but Larry knew Bobby well enough to know that he was not joking when he explained what had happened to Janet and what was actively happening to Carl. Yeah.


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[Assistant] But like Bobby, Larry was pretty skeptical and had a hard time believing in something he couldn't see or experience himself. But at the same time,


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[Assistant] Unlike Bobby and Larry, Glenn Cole actually had no trouble believing that the club was haunted. That's one thing about Glenn. That's one thing about Glenn for you.


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[Assistant] Reverend Cole was like, yeah, I think it's entirely possible that this place is haunted. And more importantly,


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[Assistant] He felt a very urgent need to meet with Carl to determine whether he was in spiritual danger or not. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] So a few days later, he got to Bobby Mackey's and he wanted to talk to Carl and kind of take a look around the place just like Patricia Michelle.


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[Assistant] Now almost immediately, Reverend Cole felt uncomfy.


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[Assistant] He told me this was the most evil sight that he'd ever stepped foot on in his entire life, and it was full of evil. Whoa.


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[Assistant] Carl Lawson is demonically possessed. Oh man. Mhm.


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[Assistant] So days later on the evening of July 20th, 1982.


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[Assistant] When Carl, who was working that night, caught a whiff of smoke from somewhere in the building.


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[Assistant] And minutes later, one of the patrons yelled something out about a fire and the band immediately stopped playing. So from the stage, Bobby was like, please just like exit in a calm and orderly fashion. Like we got to get everybody out of here calmly. And to his surprise, everybody actually exited the building calmly.


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[Assistant] Without the slightest hint of panic. That doesn't sound human to me. Me either.


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[Assistant] Now as the patrons filed out of the club, Carl tracked the smoke to a small fire in the kitchen. In the wilder...


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[Assistant] Fire department were just arriving as Carl and Bobby were able to put the fire out themselves with extinguishers.


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[Assistant] And just a short time later, they were given the all clear from the fire department to just go on with that night's performance.


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[Assistant] What? What? Where did that fire come from? Well, Bobby was surprised, but also happy, that most of the patrons who had been hiding in the- er, hiding-


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[Assistant] That's cool. I like that. I'm excited to hear that. My screen name used to be Fallout Girl 1996. Hell yea. Word. Carl on the other hand.


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[Assistant] He couldn't help but wonder if the fire had a more sinister origin than just like a simple kitchen fire. I also couldn't help but wonder that. Me either. He wondered if the evil spirits that, you know, were haunting him.


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[Assistant] We're threatened by the reverend's presence a few days earlier.


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[Assistant] Carl knows what's up. Carl does. But a few days later, Reverend Cole did come back to the club.


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[Assistant] To perform the exorcism that would maybe rid Carl and the nightclub of the spirits that haunted them.


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[Assistant] Now, Carl was surprised to find that the Reverend was accompanied by a reporter and three cameramen. Were you surprised? Not cool. But Reverend Cole said, you know, they were just there to document things, quote, just in case anything happens. Yeah. If I was Carl, I'd be like, am I gonna die? You're like, I don't know about this. So he was worried about the reporters being there, and he told the Reverend that he was also worried about getting hurt.


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[Assistant] But the reverend was like, no, listen, I've done this a ton of times, nothing to worry about. He said,


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[Assistant] I've been in the ministry for 18 years and I've come close to seeing it all. Come close, close, but you haven't seen it all.


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[Assistant] I'm like that could happen here, that little bit that you haven't seen. You might actually see it all here tonight. So for that reason, Carl was apprehensive, but he was also hopeful and he was like ready to do this. So he led Reverend Cole and the reporters to the old kitchen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's where the exorcism was going to be performed. Okay. Now the room at that point was mostly being used for storage, especially since the renovation.


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[Assistant] So the men had to push all the clutter out of the way before they could set up. Now once they figured they had adequate space, they set up a table.


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[Assistant] And Carl was to sit just across from Cole, the Reverend, and he started reciting a prayer and asking for the Lord's help in cleansing the space of its spirits.


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[Assistant] Now within a matter of minutes, Reverend Cole said he started to notice a change in Carl's body language.


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[Assistant] I guess his palms were pressed really hard into the table and his head started nodding up and down.


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[Assistant] And he quote, began mumbling something under his breath in a low and different tone of voice. Oh, I don't like that. I don't like it either.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Esteban from The Suite Life of Zack and Cody in that episode fucked me up when I was little. I have no idea what you're talking about, but I imagine it is, uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, while Reverend Cole went on with his prayer, Carl was having a hard time talking, but continued his raspy breathing. And I guess uhm, that started like right after Cole began reading from the Bible. He started like doing a weird raspy breathing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Cole kept going on, commanding the spirits, trying to guide them out.


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[Assistant] You're not gonna perform an exorcism right now. No the fuck I'm not.


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[Assistant] But Carl's eyes seemed, he, the reverend said, to be completely fixated on him, the reverend. And finally, Carl spoke in a strange voice and told the reverend, quote, they'll get me while I'm alone in here.


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[Assistant] Ooh. Which like, I have goosebumps right now. Oof. Now for some, like, that's the thing, this like really fucking creeped me out.


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[Assistant] But the Reverend believed that the voice was intended to trick him and like prey on his sympathy, like it was coming from a spirit and not Carl.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ooh, right. So the exchange between the Reverend and the spirits that seemed to be inhabiting Carl's body went on for what seemed like hours, with the Reverend praying over Carl, who seemed resistant to what this guy was saying. But finally,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Carl's body seemed to start jerking and spazzing.


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[Assistant] As Reverend Cole continued to command these spirits to leave his body. And then finally, Carl fell limp. And moments later he looked up at the Reverend and said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So he smiled and he seemed pleased that the exorcism appeared to have worked.


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[Assistant] Now outside the kitchen, Larry Kidwell watched as the four newsmen walked out of the room.


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[Assistant] And they all had kinda like disappointed looks on their faces, I think, cause... They were hoping someone would die. Exactly. You know?


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[Assistant] And, you know, he understood why. He also expected a big spectacle from the exorcism, like something you'd see in the movies.


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[Assistant] But instead the whole thing kinda seemed to end with like a whisper and a bang.


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[Assistant] I love that they're like, oh man, it worked. God damn it. Shit. That guy is fine.


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[Assistant] Like reiterations of the story, that's where it ends, like with Carl, like in that moment being cured.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then me and Dave found other versions of the story where all of this happens. So a few weeks later, Reverend Cole returned to Bobby Mackie's yet again, and he wanted to finish what he had started a week earlier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the second exorcism was said to be a hell of a lot more difficult and taxing than the first one. According to Doug Hensley, it took weeks with the Reverend praying over Carl while he just like writhed around in agony.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in one instance after one of the prayer sessions, Carl was alone in his room. This is really gross and like really scary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he noticed his underwear had been soaked in what seemed like blood. So he went to the bathroom to check himself out, and he realized he was bleeding from hemorrhoids that seemingly had developed instantaneously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What the fuck? Like he didn't have them before he was getting exercised and now all of a sudden he had them and they were bleeding insanely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe that's like the demons coming out. Perhaps. Doug Hensley said it was not just ordinary hemorrhoids. These were tremendous in size. Growing.


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[Assistant] Now after a week of no haunting or demonic activity after this, cause everything like got put to a standstill, Carl was starting to think that his promise was successful in keeping these spirits at bay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then, Reverend Cole and Larry Kidwell showed up unexpectedly and apparently threatened to destroy the little amount of peace that Carl had managed to find for himself. Oh no.


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[Assistant] Now I guess he, like Carl was like, for a minute I was like not gonna let them into my apartment.


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[Assistant] So, he let them inside and he walked with them to the kitchen. Larry set up the cameras and left the room.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now as soon as Reverend Cole started back up his prayers, Carl was really, really upset. And Cole was like, listen, this is going to be the final time, like I know it, like we're so close, just stick with me here. But Carl said, but what about Johanna and Buck?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god, Carl. And that's when Reverend Cole realized that this was what he kind of figured all along. There was some part of Carl that didn't want the haunting to end.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause he really cared about those two spirits. That breaks my heart. And he'd become attached to them over the past three years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they got like an argument about it and Carl insisted that Johanna, I missed it the last time, and Buck wanted to stay with him and Reverend Cole was like, listen, they're not going to find any peace and neither are you unless we let them move on to the next whatever. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Before they were able to reach an understanding, Carl's voice changed dramatically. First, to this weird snarl of a man calling himself Sam Tucker, and then to the rasp of another entity who Reverend Cole knew to be Charlie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was another one of the spirits inhabiting Karl's body.


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[Assistant] Now they cycled through one entity after the other and insisted they didn't want to leave.


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[Assistant] And demanded that Reverend Cole cease his attempts to exorcise them from Pearl's body.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it went on that way for hours with all of these entities like confronting Reverend Cole.


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[Assistant] And then he was just in turn praying over Carl demanding that they leave. And finally, after hours of this and shouting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Carl's body began to jerk and spasm again in response to the reverend's word- words.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And this time, he forced his hands on the table, pushed the chair way back from the minister, trying to escape the exorcism actually. But at that point, Reverend Cole grabbed Carl, held him tightly,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I finished his prayers one by one and all of the spirits left Carl's battered body at this point until all of them were gone. Damn.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now later, after the Reverend had left, Carl actually, finally felt like he was truly alone in the club for the first time in three years. Wow. Or even more because he had worked there even before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the thought of never feeling Johanna's presence though again disappointed him, but he remembered what Reverend Cole had told him. Reverend Cole told him


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When a spirit or spirits are cast out, they search the world over looking for a new home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's very important that you start going to church. You have to fill yourself with Lord Jesus and more importantly,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, or that I'm gonna be haunted for the rest of my life. Yeah, don't demand it of me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So throughout the late 70s and 80s, Bobby Mackie went out of his way to, as we know, keep those rumors of demons and ghosts from spreading and negatively affecting the business. But by the 90s, word had spread, because you know, there was a whole lot of sexorcism in his restaurant. Yeah, that'll get around. Or nightclub, excuse me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in the fall of 1993, Bobby Mackie's music world of magic was actually sued by a patron who claimed that he was attacked by a ghost while in the club. I'm a little obsessed with that. A real lawsuit. Oh, you just wait babe. Oh man. You just wait babe. You just wait babe. Hang on tight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to the suit, J.R. Costigan went to Bobby Mackey's and quote, walked around the club during a myth daring a mythical ghost that has become legend at the club to show itself. He then claimed that he went into the men's bathroom and quote,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A dark haired man appeared to him with a rope dangling around his neck and attacked him, punching him and kicking him, then dissolved into the air. This is a real lawsuit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm glad you like that because it comes back. Awesome. But before that, Bobby's lawyer, W. Robert Lops, filed one of the most unusual motions to dismiss, written in poetic verse.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The plaintiff claims in his petition he was assaulted by an apparition, injured by a ghostly nemesis.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On Bobby Mackie's premises. I'm so obsessed with this.


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[Assistant] Where beard and brazen he did blunder by taunting their supernatural wonder.


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[Assistant] Proclaiming loudly his resistance to belief in spiritual existence, alas this essence disembodied.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's really you guys. That's for realsies.


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[Assistant] But even though the tone was mocking and, you know, the format of the dismissal was a bit unusual, Yeah. Lotz insisted he was taking the case very seriously. I mean, I guess you gotta. He told reporters,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're not- no, ultimately uhm, I'm sure you'll be shocked to hear that this case was thrown out of court. Uhm, the guy just like-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The guy who filed the lawsuit failed to show up for the hearing, I think. You know, maybe he had other things going on that day. Or was maybe embarrassed that he filed a suit against a fucking...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Warning to our patrons, this establishment is purported to be haunted. Management is not responsible and cannot be held liable for any actions of any ghosts or spirits on this premises.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, so by the late 90s, he seemed actually like a lot more accepting of the paranormal activities surrounding the nightclub. And in the years since the suit, Bobby Mackie's music world has been featured on a ton.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of television shows like Hard Copy, Geraldo, The Jerry Springer Show, I don't really know how I fit into there, A Haunting, and A Current Affair.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But today, the club still operates as, uh, out of its original location on Linkin Park.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But customers, they can only expect to get a beer and hear some music on Fridays and Saturdays. They can still catch Bobby Mackie and his best damn band, that's what they're called, play their regular set, but only on the weekend. Because the rest of the week is reserved.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He just leaned the fuck in. He spent like 20 years essentially being like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then was like, eh, fuck it. Another thing about Bobby Mackie, he's gonna lean in eventually.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, Janet continued managing the club actually, she did step foot in there again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now Bobby maintains that he has still never had a paranormal experience in the bar or anywhere else. That's another thing about Bobby. He sticks to his word. He's never gonna have an experience paranormal. No, and he's never gonna believe in ghosts. He still doesn't. When it comes to the club, he says,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know if the place got ahold of me, but if that's a supernatural experience, then so be it. I'm gonna stay here. Bobby fucking Mackie. A legend. A true legend. I don't really know much else about him other than his magic world of wonder.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow, that was a wild tale. A wild tale, and uhm, Dave is a big fan of this story, so he did like a fucking incredible job on the research with me. Fuck yea Dave. And I love him. I love Dave too, and I love him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. Keep it as weird as Bobby Mackey. I fucking love this guy. He seems great. Yeaah. I hope.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you probably have, and if you haven't, welcome. Hey, what's up? You're coming in on a weird case because we're getting like weirdly demonic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's weird. I thought you were about to say there's a lot of priests in yours and I was like my whole thing is about a priest. I also have a lot of priests. Or a pastor, I think there's a difference. I have lots of priests in mine. I have pastors and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And youth pastors. There you go. I have demons. I have the Warrens in mine. Ooh. You got any prophecies?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, kind of. Oh, I have a lot of prophecies. Yeah, there's a claimed and alleged prophecy. Should we play like demon bingo? My god, guys, set up a demon bingo. When you get to my case, after you finish mine, combine me and Elena's and make a demon bingo. I love that. And when you get bingo, instead of saying bingo, you have to say something in Latin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have nothing. My brain is just thinking about demons and the Warrens and all this craziness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We are talking about today. TODAY. The case that the Conjuring Part 3 The Devil Made Me Do It is based on. Oooo. Slightly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fun fact, I've never seen any of the Conjuring movies. The, I saw the first one. Or wait, is that, is the first one Annabelle?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or is that a completely separate video? Yea, that's a different one. Never seen any of them. No, the first Conjuring I thought was great. I didn't see any of the other ones. So, maybe they're great too. Yea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, this one's definitely more religious based, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I don't think the first one's like super religious. I think it's more just haunted house fun. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But this one is actually, this case is called...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're gonna have your own thoughts about it. Okay. Have those thoughts. I will.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everyone's entitled to them, I just want to get that right off the bat. Oh, her face, you guys. There's beliefs here that everybody's gonna have different beliefs about, okay? Yeah. Uh, there's, there's, you know, demonic possession, there's exorcisms, the church is involved, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Warrens are involved. People have thoughts about all these things and you're allowed to have those thoughts, have them, exist with them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But this one involves a guy named Arnie Johnson and his, at the time, his girlfriend Debbie Glatzel. Okay. Uh, we're gonna start with talking about them because they are


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He didn't go discoing, he wasn't into drugs, he doesn't have long hair, and he never raised his voice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would like to point out that disco-ing, having long hair and raising one's voice was just attributed to being a bad person here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but yeaah, so I was like, disco-ing, huh? Disco-ing leads to having long hair. And it's like, what would constitute raising one's voice? Where's the line there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See that's, that's also like everybody has a different opinion on that. Yeaah. Like what is loud to someone is not loud to another. Exactly. I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But apparently his parents separated pretty early on in his life. He was only nine months old. Oh, that's sad. Uh, there were periods that they attempted to reconcile with each other, but they, it didn't work out and they officially divorced when he was about four years old. Oh shit, that's a long time of tumultuous. Yeah. His mother, Mary Johnson, was a single mother at the time. She struggled kind of working several jobs just to support Arnie and his younger sisters, Wanda and Janice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There was also a younger cousin named Mary who was living with the family on and off, so she was supporting her as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, when he finished eighth grade, he did try to move in with his father, who at the time was working as a landscaper in Bethel, Connecticut.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Bridgeport pretty quickly after trying this out with his dad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But Arnie's mother was really trying her best, just kind of, but struggling to support all these children on her own. Yea, that's a lot of kids. So Arnie ended up dropping out of school at 16 to work odd jobs and just try to support


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was through his mother that Arne Johnson met his future girlfriend and then wife Debbie, Debbie Glatzel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He was just 12 years old when they met, and she was 19. Oh, shit. Yep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, shit. Shit shit shit. Yep. Yep. Yep. It was 1974 and Debbie was working as a checkout clerk at a local grocery store. She later said, quote, I knocked over a display in the supermarket and Arnie said to his mother, I'm going to help that lady.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd like to point out that I'm uncomfortable here. I would like to point out that I think we should all be uncomfortable here. This is the part where I get uncomfortable and I stay uncomfy. Uh, Debbie and Mary Johnson became close friends through seeing each other at the grocery store. Reminder, Mary is Arnie's mother. Arnie is 12.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Debbie and Mary, Arnie's mother, are now close friends. Yeah, what the fuck is happening here?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and, yeah. And with the beginning of their relationship, they actually lived with Debbie's family in Brookfield for a few months to save their money. And by 1980, uhm, when he was technically an adult.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the couple moved to, decided to move in together. And they also brought along Arnie's mother, sisters, and younger cousin, Mary, the one that was living with them, to live with them in a small house that they found to rent in nearby Newtown.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Debbie said about that home, it was like my dream house, I thought we could build a nice beautiful life there. Okay, Debbie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Spoiler alert, they didn't. They were very excited about the move, but that all changed very quickly. Because on moving day, Debbie's 11 year old brother, David,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to Debbie, David really liked Arnie. We got along very well with him, just wanted to be around him a lot, so like, he wanted to help the couple move that day. And so the day of the move, he went with them to get everything settled, and when they got to the house, they noticed that the previous tenants had left some furniture, which included a bed in the main bedroom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was while he was cleaning in the main bedroom that David, the 11 year old,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And apparently, he was basically telling them, beware, get out of this house. That was the vibe that David was getting. The little 11 year old.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now apparently upon seeing this horrifying sight, David yelled, screamed, and ran from the house altogether. And this is like during the day it sounds like. This is during the day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And Debbie and Arnie followed out behind him and he was freaking out. He would not go back in the house. Uhm, David told his sister that the old man had pushed him and that he was not going back in that house. He was terrified. And he wouldn't. Debbie and Arnie went back in and continued cleaning, but David stayed outside until they were ready to leave. He wouldn't go back in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So later that night, over dinner at Debbie's parents house, Debbie and Arnie were telling Debbie's mom about what had happened at the house. And while they were talking about it, David came out of his bedroom and said he was still having visions of the old man in the house, but now he could hear his voice. In this house. What?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This old man has an animal trapped in the house and is tormenting it.


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[Assistant] And he said the animal is scratching out the door trying to escape. What the fuck? And this kid is just coming out of this with nowhere. Like I've never had any other like conversations like this. Not that we know of. Okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over time, he would keep elaborating on this story and it became more and more detailed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the man eventually apparently was described as having like hooves for feet, uhm, in that this sometimes there was other men around him and they were wearing grotesque costumes, like it was getting scarier and scarier. Yeah. And as this got more detailed and more frequent, the story started to scare Debbie and she honestly wondered,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Things changed a little bit because Arnie and Debbie immediately noticed scratches on the inside of the front door and they looked like an animal had caused it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did David see those scratches the day before when he was helping them move and was possibly influenced by that? Like maybe he did see something scary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She just scratched the hell out of our door, and so I was like, that could definitely just be a dog. Yea, exactly. But, you know, just saying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So either way though, Debbie interpreted this as confirmation that what David was saying about the old man and what he was seeing was true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he was like, she was, they had already invested two months rent into this place, but they decided they weren't moving in after this. Wow. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Arnie and Debbie felt comfortable with this decision. They were like, nope, not doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But Mary Johnson, who is Arnie's mom,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She was not so convinced that there was really reason to back out of this. Mainly because Mary had already given notice to her landlord that she was going to be moving out. And had to live somewhere. Because the plan was she was going to move into this house with Debbie and Arnie with her kids.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so she was like, so Arnie and Debbie were going to live with Debbie's family in Brookfield for the time being until they could find another place. But Mary and her children.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you would think that the house in Newtown, that place is gonna be where the problem is. No, no, no. That didn't have a problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Arnie and Debbie, now their plans have been put on hold, they're not moving into that little house where his mom did, his little sisters have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they kinda took all their stuff out of that house, went back to Debbie's parents house, they were gonna stay there for a while.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But when they got there, Debbie's mom was very agitated and she was saying that David had been upset all evening and was insisting that the old man who he was now calling the beast


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was angry with him for telling Arnie and Debbie not to move into that house in Newtown.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what David was saying was that the beast had followed him from that home and was, had followed him to the Brookfields home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was now in their house. Okay. And that he wanted to take his soul, that he was like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the following day, Arnie and Debbie were like, you know what, like he's so upset, let's get him out of the house for a little while. So they were hoping like just a casual afternoon outside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the park or whatever was gonna hopefully take his mind off this scary ass old man beast that he was seeing. Distract him. Seemed like it was going okay, but then when they returned back to the Glatzell house at Brookfield, David refused to go inside.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he told his sister the beast was in that house and he was like, I'm not going in. And they had to convince him. It took a lot of convincing for him to finally go in that house. God, if my kid starts doing this shit, man, I'm gonna, I gotta go. I gotta go. Return the whole ass kid. And that night as David was going to bed, it apparently escalated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And according to Arnie and Debbie, David was being physically attacked by an unseen force. Y'all, David just didn't want to go to bed. This force was striking him, pushing him around the room. Arnie said later, quote, the scariest part to me was seeing David go through this with nothing there to do it. It was terrifying. So no one knew what to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Becoming more and more aggressive, and David's 11 at this point. And it's like out of character. According to them, it's out of nowhere. It's getting worse and worse. So they don't know what to do. Me, I would call a doctor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Debbie's family went to the priest at their church and asked if they could perform an exorcism or some kind of similar ritual.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Since the early 1960s, the Catholic Church had definitely tried to minimize, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The talk of demons and, you know, evil like that, like, you know, this kind of thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Suddenly it's a thing where like, everybody needs an exorcism. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The priest who is unnamed, uh, lots of unnamed priests in here. There's always unnamed priests. Yea, because...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There isn't. Uh, so the priest told the family he wasn't gonna do an exorcism because he was like, that's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very involved. Do we need lots of people? So he was like, yeah, I'm not going to do an exorcism, but he was like, let me do some more research. And while I'm doing this research for what I can do for you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why don't you bless your house with some holy water, light some candles, do some prayers. Get out of here. So, seems very helpful, thanks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Connotations and also like occultish connotations in it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just know it as, uh, the documentary. I was going to say, I know you're thinking of, um, the Robin Hills murders. Yes. The West Memphis Three. Yep. Yeah. That's kind of why, like, it's, it's very much in, like, culture, in popular culture that the name Paradise Lost. But he was 11 at the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He had not read the epic poem by John Miller, so like him apparently reciting things from it was strange. Yeah. To the...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's definitely not going to be sufficient enough to end what's going on here. Like I've done my best, but he was like, then they said he, this unnamed priest who is never named.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This story has been told over and over in various forms of media over the years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The basis of a Conjuring movie. I know it's so funny because like I know nothing about it. Yeaah, it's, it's a, it's been told a million times, but the more sensational parts are the ones everyone remembers, or the ones that get retold, but there is lesser parts of this story that are pretty important just to round the whole thing out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think it's good to tell the story from one point of view which is demon possession. Yea, no. I think it's probably smart to look at the other people involved and if somebody else is saying I didn't see any of that, then at least you need to hear that part of it. That's not fun. And not discussed a lot was the fact that there was a third Glatzel Child who falls between David and Debbie in birth order and has a very different version of events


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'm not saying who is right or wrong because none of us were there, but it's interesting that Carl Jr. has a different version of events and he shouldn't be left out of the narrative for the sake of only telling the demon narrative.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, beginning in 1979, Carl Glatzel Jr. was 14 years old. And he said at that, the beginning of 1979, he was feeling very helpless because he was watching his younger brother David's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Mental and emotional health begin to rapidly decline


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And at first he said this manifested with some acute behavioral problems. He saw him having trouble in school, like learning disabilities.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But by 1980, the problems really allegedly escalated. He said David began experiencing what Carl referred to as delusions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to Carl, the family was convinced David's issues were spiritual and not physical or psychological. So they insisted on turning to a priest at church instead of a doctor. But when Hugh, this priest, this unnamed priest, was unable to offer really


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anything besides this blessing ritual and likes a little bit of spiritual guidance. And like Ed and Lorraine Warren. He says he believes his parents turned to the Warrens, his family turned to the Warrens themselves. And that Carl, and he, what Carl says is that the Warrens saw their family as a gold mine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is just a part of the story not often included, and it's important to talk about the fact that not everyone in the family saw this as a spiritual or demonic issue. At least Carl saw it as a psychological or physical issue that a doctor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now back to where we were. Ed and Lorraine Warren have entered the chat now. Can I stop you for a quick second?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so David, uh, sorry, Carl sees David having all these problems, and the problems that he saw started before even, he like talked about the beast, or right around the same time. No, he said it's about the same time, he just saw it starting to rapidly decline. Okay, gotcha. He said it was, it was small, but it, it started to really escalate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so Ed and Lorraine Warren have entered the chat and by this time they had been, by the time that they became involved with this whole thing, they were already very well known.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, since the early 1950s even, the Warrens had been involved in paranormal investigations. Uh, Lorraine was a psychic medium and, um, Ed was a self-described demonologist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They flew under the radar at first a little bit, but in 1975 is when they really blew up to paranormal stardom, because that's when Ronald DeFeo Jr. went on trial for the murder of his family in Amityville, New York.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Amityville Horror is very well known to both horror and true crime buffs worldwide. Yep. It's become its own kind of cultural force at this point, but in the beginning,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was a real straightforward shocking case of a family annihilation. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] After doing so, he left and he just unleashed and unloaded what he had just done to a bar full of people and was very much quickly arrested.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, initially, he claimed that these killings were a professional hit. That was his initial story. Initial story, excuse me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that fell apart pretty fast and it became clear that it was him. He had done it. He struggled a lot with several different things. He had a terrible tumultuous


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] violent relationship with his father. There were many factors in this whole case that you can point to for what was going on at that time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the straightforward answer for that. Yeah. A year later, so that happened, and that was like, whoa. Okay. Yeah. Family annihilation, that's horrific. What a case. What an awful thing to happen. What a vibe that house must have now. The end. No.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, a year later, a newly married couple named George and Kathy Lutz moved into the DeFeo home with their blended family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even though that home had those like bad, you know, what had happened there, they were like, you know what, we're going to make it our home, it's okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But after living there for only about a month, they abandoned it, leaving a lot of things behind, just fleeing that house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, they claimed it was haunted, it was horrible, horrible things were happening in that house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The claims were very, very heavily and completely investigated by skeptics, paranormal investigators, literally anybody that could go in there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were pretty, pretty like quickly looked at as like, uh, I don't know about that. Right. Pretty unfounded.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but the people who really believed them, really believed them, and two of those people were Ed and Lorraine Warren.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, also DeFeo's lawyer, William Weber,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the story behind the supposed Amityville haunting and its connection to the DeFeo murders is...


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[Assistant] So long, so complicated, very confusing at times. There's just a lot there. Very layered.


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[Assistant] In the decades that followed this whole thing, claims of demonic possession and hauntings at the DeFeo slash later Lutz household, uhm, were definitely called into question in some court cases where they admitted it was a hoax. Yeaah. Like it was very much admitted to being a hoax.


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[Assistant] People were really interested in it. There's novels, there's a long line of films that, you know, catapulted the whole thing into like the zeitgeist and everybody


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[Assistant] Questioning whether, everybody wants to believe that the haunting of Amityville is true. I did it too, when I first read it. People love hauntings, people love-


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[Assistant] And it's like, so to hear it was all bullshit, and this is just a straightforward story of like a really tragic, tragic family annihilation.


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[Assistant] It's, of course everybody's like, oh, bummer. Yea, nobody wants to look to that part of it. And then Lorraine are a huge part of this story because they really went hard at it. They believed it. It catapulted them into the public eye at that point.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and they were like the it couple of the paranormal world at that time. They got booked on talk shows. They were becoming public speakers. They, this shot them into the stratosphere.


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[Assistant] It had no effect on David Glatzel's behavior. When she went in there, she saw that they had done nothing.


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[Assistant] Which the Glatzels preached apparently according to them had reached out to the Warrens because he also believed it wasn't going to have an effect on David.


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[Assistant] Uh, they lived only 30 minutes away from this family, so they were like, why not?


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[Assistant] Told her all about what was going on with David, that he had tried, that the family had tried with the blessings and nothing worked. And that they needed urgent help.


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[Assistant] So they went straight from Monroe and went right to the Glatzel home pretty shortly after.


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[Assistant] Other people say that the mom just called them directly. That's Carl's feeling. That's Carl's feeling. I don't know if anybody else feels that way. These are just feelings. Nobody really knows what happened.


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[Assistant] When Lorraine met David, she said she believed- whoops, sorry, I just dropped my charger. How dare you. How dare I. Lorraine said she believed there was, quote, a creature in that child's body.


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[Assistant] Wow. She said that creature was there to cause considerable psychic and physical harm to him and his family. But like, why though?


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[Assistant] I'm not really sure, uh, but you know, it was there apparently. The Glatzels told Ed and Lorraine that David's behavior was becoming increasingly more aggressive.


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[Assistant] They had seen the beatings that had been inflicted upon this boy by this unseen beast themselves, and of course the Warrens looked at this and said, 100% he is possessed by a demon.


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[Assistant] Now Debbie Glatzel figured it was linked to the property somehow.


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[Assistant] But she figured, why can't we just move away from this house and hopefully solve the problem?


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[Assistant] But Lorraine was like, no. And she said, it would do no good at this point because it would follow us. That's the difference between a haunted house and haunted people. Say what you want about the Warrens, but they know how to speak spooky. Is what I have to say about that.


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[Assistant] The difference between a haunted house and haunted people. Yea, that's beautiful. Alright, I get it. Poetic justice. I would get sucked into. I would too.


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[Assistant] According to them, the only thing that was going to fix David was an actual exorcism performed by a Catholic priest.


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[Assistant] But like I said before, you don't just get an exorcism. Getting an approval for an exorcism can take months. You have to petition the church. They have to go through a whole thing.


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[Assistant] They didn't have that kind of time. David is increasingly getting worse and worse. So luckily Ed Warren tells the family, don't worry about it. I can perform a minor exorcism, which can be done sooner. Okay.


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[Assistant] Now according to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, minor exorcisms are quote, prayers used to break the influence of evil and sin in a person's life.


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[Assistant] I just have to say, it's wild that like actual documents exist that like explain what this is and how to go about it. That's just how I feel. And here's the thing.


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[Assistant] A believer in many things. I'm also, I'm also a healthy, I was meaning to say healthy and also at the same time.


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[Assistant] No, and I can't say that I don't believe it happens. I can't say that I don't think that anything


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[Assistant] Like that could happen? I can't say it, cause I don't know. I'm not here to say I know either way. That would be foolish to me. Yeah. But...


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[Assistant] I think when it comes to like the religious part of it is where I have the problem, mainly because I am not a religious person. So to me, why would that help me if I don't believe in it? You know, and I feel like some people


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[Assistant] Like why, why is it so connected? I know it's so connected because of the Bible and like all the stories and everything, like, you know, Satan and all that shit. Well, and I think a lot of times people that believe in demons think they're like, like hell's demons. Yeah.


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[Assistant] It's just, I feel like it's too linked with religion for me to fully engage in it.


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[Assistant] A bad entity. Yeah. Like I don't look at it as like a hell demon. Same. You know, like cause I don't think it has any link to that. I think it's just bad. Right. That's what I was just going to say. And I think that's where I lose it. And I think a lot of times like things are bad because of like energy and things that happened there. Yeah. Like I can get down with the idea that like,


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[Assistant] A ghost is a like, this is at least what I kind of think, is like a ghost was a person.


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[Assistant] Yeah. But a bad entity, like a demon per se, like that, like a, if I see what, like something that I feel like is demonic. Maybe wasn't even a person. Maybe wasn't even a person, it's just bad energy. That's what I think too. But I don't know. But then I think there can also be bad spirits that were people. Yeah, exactly, cause it's bad people. So it's like,


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[Assistant] I don't know. I don't know exactly how I believe it. I, I just know I don't know everything about it, so I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I do. Yeah. And say that like, all that's bullshit. Cause I don't know.


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[Assistant] So, it's like I'm very open-minded to understanding it, but...


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[Assistant] When it gets too wrapped up with, like, this kind of thing, I'm like, you're losing me. Cause I don't, I don't think I believe that that's where it comes from.


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[Assistant] But you might, so. And that's fine. Yeah, exactly. But I'm just saying what, what I think.


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[Assistant] So, while the Glatzels waited to hear back from the Warrens about getting this minor exorcism up and chugging, uh, David's behavior got worse and it got more aggressive.


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[Assistant] Uh, the Warrens said that they saw David levitate off his bed. Okay.


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[Assistant] So eventually they began to record their interactions with David because pictures or it didn't happen. Yes, obviously. But mainly audio recordings. Oh, so pictures and it didn't happen. Exactly.


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[Assistant] So audio recording or it didn't happen. In a recording made October 14th, 1980, David, you can hear David breathing really heavily and he's making like guttural sounds. That's really scary. And then it's followed by a voice Debbie says is David saying Cheyenne dies at work tomorrow.


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[Assistant] Now this was apparently a reference to Arnie Johnson, because his middle name is Cheyenne. Oh.


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[Assistant] Now according to Debbie, the next day Arnie, who worked at a tree surgery company, fell 20 feet from a tree and suffered a, quote, minor knee injury. Oh shit.


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[Assistant] So like, he didn't die. No. He had a minor knee injury.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but I mean to fall 20 feet from a tree, that's really fucking scary. I found no reports of this, but.


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[Assistant] It happened according to them. So allegedly that happened. He had a minor knee injury.


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[Assistant] So, uh, he didn't die at work that day, but something scary happened. Very strange. And if it did happen, then like, whoa, something bad happened and he could have died. Yeah, exactly. So there's that. A near death experience. Exactly. So maybe he just wasn't being detailed, you know?


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[Assistant] But in another incident, Arnie apparently, and this happened a lot, apparently Arnie would challenge the demon. I thought you were gonna say, this happened a lot. Arnie just fell from a lot of trees. Yea, he just fell a lot. No, no. Arnie would challenge the demon. A lot. And he would challenge it to leave David's body and enter his.


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[Assistant] Oh. No, but, and he was 19 at the time. Tough guy. Tough guy. Yeah. Tough guy shit. And, you know. And he loves this boy. And again, David, like, was really close to Arnie at some point, according to reports, according to the family. So, like, he, he didn't like seeing him like this, I assume. Yeah, it sounds like a brotherly relationship.


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[Assistant] So he would do this a lot he would like and Lorraine and Ed would look at it as taunting and they said that it was not a good idea and they didn't like that he was doing it.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and Arnie can be heard on a recording saying, tell him I'll fight him.


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[Assistant] And after that, Arnie claims he started having paranormal experiences of his own.


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[Assistant] But yeaah, he started seeing dark figures, he was having experiences of his own, and in an interview later, Debbie recalled an incident where she said, um, they were, her and Arnie were having a discussion with another couple, and Arnie, out of nowhere, began to growl and started shaking all over, and she said, I could tell it wasn't Arnie.


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[Assistant] Now later, right? I don't, nobody tells you like what, how they reacted. And in a New York Times article, uh, his David's mother further said what was happening with David at the time saying he would kick, bite, spit, terrible swear words.


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[Assistant] And she said that he was thrown around on the floor like a rag doll, she remembered seeing it. But then she was quoted as saying about David, and he can't even do a sit-up, he's too fat.


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[Assistant] Oh, that's so mean to say about your child. That's a weird thing to throw at the end of he's being possessed and beaten by a demon is to like throw that in at the end. To like body shame him. I don't know about this, guys.


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[Assistant] He's suffering, like he is going through it and he's not getting the proper help.


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[Assistant] It doesn't sound very loving. No, that was just like, I was like, woah. And I'm like, you're so worried about him, but you still have time to be a bitch? Yea, like you didn't have to say that. Yea. Like you could have just said like he got thrown around on the floor, it was wild. Yea. Like the end. You don't need to add that extra crack in there. You could even say he wasn't very agile. Yea, like any way of saying it.


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[Assistant] Either way, by the end of 1980, David's behavior reached peak uh-oh status when in a fit of rage, he allegedly tried to stab Arnie with a kitchen knife. Oh no. According allegedly.


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[Assistant] Again, I'm saying there's no report of this. I did not find a report of this. But according to the Glatzels, David claimed the beast had called on more demons to possess him. So it wasn't just the beast anymore. There were several demons. In fact, according to Ed and Lorraine, there were 43. Specific. Yep.


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[Assistant] Now after five weeks, priests from the Glatzel's church came to the house to perform a second blessing, which I'm like, guys, it's not working. Put your water away. And then they did do a minor exorcism. Not a full one, not a major one. And there is also no record of them doing an exorcism.


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[Assistant] Like a factual exorcism. Now, ultimately, the family claims, the Galatzels claim that four minor exorcisms were performed on David, and in one of them, he stopped breathing and CPR had to be administered. Oh my god. But the priests were eventually, according to them, able to


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[Assistant] Expelled the demonic entities that were possessing David Glatzel, it worked through the minor exorcisms. Okay.


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[Assistant] And in the months that followed these minor exorcisms, according to them, things started to settle a little bit, but then also they claimed that David continued to have several behavioral issues and psychiatric, psychiatric problems and showed no improvement.


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[Assistant] Okay. So I guess they just gave up on him being possessed?


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[Assistant] Can we call a doctor now? Because like, that's what that says to me.


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[Assistant] But with the minor exorcisms behind them, they were all concentrating on that for a long time. Now Arnie was able to devote more time to work, where he was working as a tree surgeon.


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[Assistant] And he was honestly kind of relying on more work because he was helping to support his mother, sisters, and cousins. Right.


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[Assistant] Uhm, Debbie was also focusing on work. She got a new job as a groomer at the Brookfield Kennels. Everything seemed to be going smoothly. And while working there, Debbie first, that's where she first met 40 year old Alan Bono. Which uhm, and she'd, he had recently moved to Brookfield to manage the kennel.


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[Assistant] And he also managed an apartment complex nearby, uh, which I guess they were both owned by his sister, but he was managing them.


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[Assistant] Now, there were reports later that Arnie said he was feeling strange around this time still. Even though things had settled, he was still feeling strange.


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[Assistant] And he said that he was having encounters with what he thought were demons or spirits. They were trying to possess him still. He said he believed that him taunting


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[Assistant] Those demons and him telling them to jump to him worked and that something stuck with him.


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[Assistant] Okay. And he said at the old house he saw a demon in an old well, like looked him right in the face.


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[Assistant] And Debbie told reporters later Cheyenne would go into a trace, remember Cheyenne's his middle name. Yup, yup.


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[Assistant] He would go into a trance. He would growl and say he saw the beast. Later he would have no memory of it. It was just like David. But they assumed it was just like...


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[Assistant] Leftover demon from David's exorcism, I guess? I don't- To me, it sounds like a PTSD. Yeah, I'm like, what's go- cause those exorcism- whatever was going on with David sounded traumatic for everyone involved.


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[Assistant] And so I assume everyone's going to have some, some trauma after that. Some lingering effects. Yeah, but they were looking at it as he was also possessed.


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[Assistant] Now, but it doesn't sound to me they didn't, I couldn't find anything about them doing anything.


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[Assistant] For this, like, Arnie was dealing with this. Right. But it was going about his day to day life. They didn't call a priest or anything like that. Like you're, he's possessed but you're letting him like climb up to tall trees. Yeah. So I get, whatever.


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[Assistant] But at the beginning of the new year, Arnie and Debbie moved into one of the apartments in, uh, Alan Bono's complex. Okay. The guy who was working at the kennel with Debbie. Okay. They had Arnie's teenage sisters, Wanda and Janice and his younger cousin Mary move in with them as well. Okay. So according to Arnie's mother,


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[Assistant] Uh, Arnie and Alan got along very well, had a very friendly relationship, this is according to Arnie's mother.


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[Assistant] And in 1981, Mary Johnson, Arnie's mother, told reporters, he used to tell me what a wonderful person Mr. Bono was.


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[Assistant] Could have been true, but on the afternoon of February 16th, something happened that would...


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[Assistant] It's difficult to know exactly what happened on this day because several different stories have been told and the only people that can tell the stories


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[Assistant] Are the people that survived the incident. And they all have different stories. And there's stories that have just changed a little bit. Okay. We're not really sure exactly what happened, but on the afternoon of February 16th,


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[Assistant] Uh, 19 year old Arnie Johnson and Alan Bono went to lunch at the Mug and Munch Cafe in Brookfield with Arnie's sisters and 26 year old Debbie Glatzel, his girlfriend.


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[Assistant] Uhm, I think it was about three hours they all hung out there, and apparently the two men drank between 13 and 15 glasses of wine. Sorry, how many? 13 and 15 glasses of wine. And how, they were there for three hours? Three hours.


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[Assistant] Each? Between them. Between them? Okay, so like call that 14. That's seven glasses of wine each. Four glasses of wine is a bottle. They almost had two bottles of wine each.


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[Assistant] Police conclude that around 6.30 that evening, Bono had, Alan Bono had made some kind of mark, remark about Johnson's girlfriend, Debbie.


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[Assistant] So in interviews and court documents, Arnie claimed that he has no memory of what happened next. I believe that. But Debbie, Wanda, and several neighbors have witnessed testimonies and they said the argument continued to escalate outside the apartment.


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[Assistant] And then Arnie eventually pulled out a five inch folding knife and stabbed Alan Bono four times in the stomach.


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[Assistant] Bono fell to the ground, and Arnie allegedly walked off into the woods.


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[Assistant] Okay. And Debbie ran and sat back inside the apartment and she called, nope, not an ambulance, but her father, Carl, who arrived shortly after.


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[Assistant] Okay, Debbie. An ambulance did arrive. It's unclear who called for it. Maybe Carl, the father. Maybe, but the ambulance driver testified that he found Alan Bono lying face up in the parking lot, alive but badly injured, from...


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[Assistant] Four half-moon-shaped stab wounds below his rib cage. Why would they be half-moon-shaped? It must have been some kind of curved blade, I assume. Oh, okay.


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[Assistant] Uh, as they looked at his injuries and were trying to get him on the stretcher, the ambulance driver overheard Debbie Glatzel tell her father, Oh daddy, he didn't mean to do it. You know how he gets when he's been drinking. Oh, like possessed? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Later in an interview with police, Carl Glatzel would tell investigators Cheyenne did it.


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[Assistant] There was no question here that Arnie did this. Cheyenne Arnie did this.


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[Assistant] There is an ambulance driver who heard her telling her father, you know how he gets when he's drinking. Just putting that out there.


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[Assistant] Now Alan Bono was taken to Danbury Hospital, remember he is alive at this point, but he was pronounced dead at the hospital. No, I was hoping you were going to say he survived. Police were given Arnie's description and he was found only about an hour later. He was only a couple miles away.


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[Assistant] Uh, he was charged with the stabbing and now murder and taken to Bridgeport Correctional Center and held on a $125,000 bond.


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[Assistant] So to the Brookfield police, this murder was...


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[Assistant] Pretty straightforward. It was a drunken argument that got out of control with a very tragic outcome. Yea, there were multiple witnesses. But only days after Arnie's arrest, Ed and Lorraine Lawren began promoting the story that it may have appeared that Arnie killed Alan Bono, but he had only done so because he was possessed by a demonic entity.


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[Assistant] And not just one, but demonic entity, he was possessed by many demonic entities. Never, even like if he was, I just feel like it's not a good idea to insert yourself in the middle of a murder trial. That's the problem here, is like, I don't know if this was a great idea. Like yea, no I do know, it's not a great idea. Maybe he was possessed, like,


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[Assistant] Perhaps if you feel that way you can.


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[Assistant] And uhm, Ed Warren said that Arnie made a big error when he challenged those demons to leave David's body and come into his own.


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[Assistant] No, I think he made a big error when he drank multiple bottles of wine. And then killed someone. And then killed someone. And Lorraine told reporters he never realized there were so many demons in the boy. 43 as we found out.


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[Assistant] Uh, I don't even think they know how they're gonna prove it, but ever since that whole thing happened, they had claimed that Arnie had been under that demonic influence that wanted to hurt the Glatzel family and ruin Arnie's life for challenging them.


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[Assistant] Lorraine said, we knew this case would end in tragedy, but Arnie was the last one we would have thought this would happen to.


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[Assistant] The demon used Arnie to achieve its goal. It wanted to really destroy this young man's life. Oh my god, I'm sorry, that's so fucking distasteful. Yeah, I think it's gross. I think that's disgusting. I think it's really gross. Like you're sitting there saying that a demon wanted to ruin Arnie's life when Arnie just took the life of another human being.


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[Assistant] Like that's making a mockery of that man's murder. Well and what's interesting is that Lorraine added also that


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[Assistant] He was definitely, he might have been possessed at the time of the murder a few days earlier, but she and Ed didn't believe that he was still possessed just a few days later when they gave their, he was like, no, like this happens quick. Well, yeah, I mean, the demon had already ruined his life. So then he just like popped up and did it to somebody else.


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[Assistant] But, uh, the considerable lengths that the Warrens and the Glatzels claim to have gone through to literally exorcise 43 demons out of David Glatzel?


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[Assistant] That's wild that they went through all those lengths to get them out of David, but all 43 demons just voluntarily just took off, they just dipped out right after, like, yeaah.


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[Assistant] I don't know. Just like Rachel didn't dip out. Those demons didn't dip out. Now under normal circumstances, investigators would have very quickly dismissed any of these claims of demonic influence.


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[Assistant] But because there was involvement of the Catholic Diocese of Bridgeport in the previous minor exorcisms, the investigators kinda took a beat to think about this. I have to go.


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[Assistant] At a time when nearly one third of Americans reported some participation in the Catholic Church, the involvement of the Church did give this claim more credibility.


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[Assistant] And people in the faith would have taken this claim in this case very seriously.


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[Assistant] And Brookfield's police sergeant John Lucas told reporters, as a basic religious precept, it's all possible.


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[Assistant] In this case, I'm just not sure. I'm keeping an open mind.


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[Assistant] So I think they were essentially trying to be like, we're not discounting it because they didn't want to piss everyone off. Okay.


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[Assistant] Wild. And there was a flood of inquiries coming in after the Warrens made that statement about demonic possession to the press. And in response, the Diocese of Bridgeport confirmed that they had received a request for help from the Glatzel family.


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[Assistant] And had assigned Reverend Francis Virgilak of Stamford to


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[Assistant] Investigate for possible diabolical possession of the boy.


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[Assistant] According to the diocese, that reverend had not yet returned a report on the investigation of the Glatzel family, and he had been sent on assignment out of country shortly before this whole thing, so he couldn't even be reached for comment.


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[Assistant] This was the only statement the Diocese of Bridgeport would make on this case, and they said a formal exorcism had never been approved and had never happened.


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[Assistant] Huh. They were like, nope. Probably a good choice. Now while Arnie Johnson sat in Bridgeport Correctional Center awaiting his trial, the Warrens kept this story going.


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[Assistant] Within a week of the murder, they had appeared on a number of television shows, radio shows, claiming Arnie's case would be the first in American legal history.


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[Assistant] In which an accused murderer will argue that he was possessed.


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[Assistant] Wow. Arnie's court-appointed lawyer George Tim refused to comment on these claims, but it didn't really matter because he was soon kicked out of there and was replaced by Martin Minella, who was a young private attorney who was very excited to work on this case and did it pro bono. Oh!


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[Assistant] Uhm, and returned an indictment after only 25 minutes of deliberation.


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[Assistant] By now, he was being represented by Bart Martin Mannella, who seemed to really be into this media attention.


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[Assistant] He was intending, he was going to intend to argue Arnie's actions were the result of demonic possession. He was ready to go forward with this.


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[Assistant] According to Manela, the defense would require, quote, psychic experts from all over the country and from England, which could be very costly, so a defense fund has been set up to cover the costs associated with this strategy.


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[Assistant] They all just wanted to see how this was going to play out in a real court of law. And a trial for murder, remember. And of course, everyone wondered whether the diocese, who were still committed to being silent on this matter, would actually be called to testify.


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[Assistant] A choice. Okay, glass house. A choice. Okay, glass house. Morals, you say. In a New York Times article, he was quoted as saying, the courts have dealt with the existence of God. Now they're going to have to deal with the existence of the devil.


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[Assistant] I literally must go. This is real. That is the thing that is absolutely mind boggling.


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[Assistant] Now, like Martin, Ed and Lorraine Warren were also very frustrated with the Catholic diocese's refusal to confirm or validate any of their claims. Ed said the church is acting like they've committed a crime. And then he said he feared the diocese would, quote, scatter the priests involved to the Four Winds to avoid having them testify.


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[Assistant] This is all very theatrical. Very intense. Oh, so theatrical. The most. Meanwhile, a ton of clergy members were speaking against the case, like actively. Good.


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[Assistant] Pointing out that supposed cases of demonic possession are many times the result of mental illness, requiring an actual doctor and not a priest. I have to say I'm kind of surprised. Right? I'm impressed.


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[Assistant] 34%. So this was a time when this defense and this kind of


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[Assistant] Panic would have really been a thing. It would have really like gotten everybody up in arms. Do you hear me blinking? Yeah, blink blink.


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[Assistant] So by the end of March, the case had made headlines everywhere, but not because of the murder. Exactly. And because it's a horrific murder. And the tragic loss. It was about, it was gaining attention more because of the Warrens and Martin Mannella.


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[Assistant] And important to note as a point for the skeptics out there, because we're trying to tell both sides here, During the five weeks of David's ordeal, his diabolical possessions seemed to manifest, as it was being told by people, in ways that were very similar to those of one Reagan McNeil.


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[Assistant] Also, the Glatzel said they were put in contact with the Warrens by that unnamed priest at their church, who is never named. But Debbie Glatzel?


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[Assistant] All of this is not to say that this is a hoax, fraud, anything else. No, you're just telling both sides. It's just putting more facts into this case just so you can see the full picture here.


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[Assistant] The church and investigators were staying pretty silent, but the Warrens and Mannella were sharing their story with as many TV cameras as they could get in front of.


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[Assistant] The Warrens spoke of their close working relationship with the Catholic Church, told reporters there's a great deal of respect between us and them, but the church would not confirm or deny this.


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[Assistant] The church said, I don't know her. They said, uh, I don't know about that. Also, while the diocese refused to discuss the matter with reporters, they were willing to tell the press, quote, no formal exorcism was ever asked for or performed. That's interesting. Yikes. Not asked for? Yikes.


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[Assistant] So, in June 1981, George Kresge, a mentalist who performed under the name The Amazing Kresgen,


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[Assistant] He accused the Warrens of preying on a superstitious public and he said this is all to promote themselves and increase revenues for their lectures.


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[Assistant] And he said, quote, they have an excellent vaudeville act. It's just that this case more involves clinical psychologists than it does them. I love vaudeville. That's hilarious.


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[Assistant] A lawyer from Connecticut told the Hartford Current, Marty Manila, Manila is handling this case for Marty Manila.


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[Assistant] Yeah, sounds like it. I also saw some pictures that are truly questionable.


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[Assistant] David Golub, a lawyer in Stamford, Connecticut, also agreed with this. He told reporters, lawyers know that it's extremely unlikely that a Connecticut jury will accept a demon possession defense.


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[Assistant] Manela only seemed to gain steam from his haters. He said, I took this case because I believe in it. They told Columbus that the world was flat but that didn't stop him.