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[Assistant] And when the settlers first stepped on the scene, they actually misunderstood the name when it was translated for them. And they thought that the translation of the Native American words, and I'm gonna do my best with this,


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[Assistant] Now, Ukela is a gigantic female serpent who was said to live in the nearby lake and she had one thing on her mind. Chaos. Oh, I love it.


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[Assistant] So apparently she's got these massive claws, she's got fiery eyes, this like loud booming voice that the Native Americans compared to thunderclaps, and she also has this large kind of


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[Assistant] It is said that whoever looked into her eyes would either lose their own sight over time or just become insane. Wow.


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[Assistant] Now, even if you approached this beast while she was not awake, like if she was sleeping, just seeing her with your own eyes could mean that your entire family would perish. Oh my god.


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[Assistant] But if you see her, then your whole family dies. So like you become this great wonder worker. But did your whole family die? Yea, like is your family thriving or nah? Or nah.


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[Assistant] That's just like a wild thing. Yeah.


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[Assistant] So Savannah's culture was something obviously, just like most of us, that is incredibly important to her and was important to her.


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[Assistant] Now her Dakota name, which is, I believe the name that your tribe gives you.


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[Assistant] That's, you've pressed an incorrect key. Thanks so much. I know what Dakota is. Thank you.


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[Assistant] But something that Savannah was really focused on in the last couple of years that she was with her family and something that was really bothering her.


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[Assistant] Was constantly hearing that Native American and Indigenous women were disappearing without a trace or turning up murdered all over the world.


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[Assistant] 84% of indigenous women have been the target of those crimes. And how isolating it must feel to have no one helping.


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[Assistant] The problem, which honestly is something that we've touched on in the past, I think in your episodes that you did on Willie Picton, you gave us so much great information about the problem and what we can do about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's just that these cases are not investigated, they're not reported on. No. There's all kinds of arguments about what jurisdiction they belong in because certain, like the actual police departments think that it's not in their jurisdiction and then there's like tribal law force and just like so much red tape. Great area. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like, when, when are we going to do something about it? But I feel like a lot of people think like, I don't know what to do about it. So, but there are a ton of resources, which I'm sure you're going to tell us too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They just keep putting me perfectly into my next point. Here I am. Here I am. Good to meet you you great partner. I'm just ushering you through.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you really are. No, I actually have like a ton of great sources that I'll link in the show notes and we'll talk a little more about those at the end. But I just want to tell Savannah's story first and then I hopefully like, hopefully I can share those and you guys and us and all of us weirdos together can actually do something about that. Yeah, absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, cool. But just wanted to get that out there in the beginning. I think we're in a mutual, like, brain fog. Like, just together. Like a community brain fog.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that we're all in a place of what the hell is happening brain fog. Yea, we truly are. Alright, so on with the story. Let's go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Back in the summer of 2017, there was a lot going on in Savannah's life. She was living in that apartment with her parents and her brother, but she was also eight months pregnant and expecting a baby girl that she and her boyfriend were planning to name Haisley Jo. Oh, adorable.


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[Assistant] Now, Savannah had just celebrated her 22nd birthday. She had also just become a CNA. Also got a new job working with the elderly.


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[Assistant] Like the most, and on top of that, she was planning on getting a new apartment with her boyfriend Ashton. Good for her.


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[Assistant] Like just, like starting their lives together. Yeah. Like you said, she was determined. She was hardworking. It's like very clear.


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[Assistant] It's so clear. She was like, she was truly a Leo woman. Yeah. Well, Ashton, her boyfriend, was also a member of the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe. And from the sounds of it, like everybody was really excited for the two of these guys to start their family together. I love that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, you'll love this, they had known each other since middle school, and they started dating in high school. Meaning, at the time they were expecting little Haisley Jo, they had already been together for about seven years. Oh my god. Stop it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Like, that's, that's a fairy tale. It is. You know. And when Selena found out that she was pregnant, Ashton actually was living and working in Minneapolis, which is about four hours from where she and her family were in, uh, Fargo, North Dakota.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like you can tell when people are just ready to like go through it all together, have already been through it together and are just like only thinking of their family and what they need to do to make it thrive. And it seems like the two of them were on the same page there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Her obituary would later point out those kids were a huge part of her life and everything she did revolved around them. So you know she would have been this amazing mother.


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[Assistant] Absolutely. And just like the fact that like, that's like her niece and nephew and she's 22, but everything she does revolves around them. Like that tells you exactly who she is. That's how you are with the, with your nieces though.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god, stop it. It's true. We have a lot of stuff to do before that happens. But when it happens, you'll be great. I'll be vibin'. Oh my god, and Drew. Drew's gonna be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh my god, your youngest, can you quickly just tell that story? Oh my god, after, uh, after she got out of the hospital, uhm, the girls, my mother-in-law had taken the girls while we were in the hospital to get her like little stuffies just to cheer her up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she got the two stuffies and I asked her, what are you going to name them? And she held one up and said, I would like to name this one Drew Drew.


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[Assistant] You guys don't have cats, like she only knows my cat. She only knows Franklin and Lux, and I love that she sleeps with Drew Drew every night.


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[Assistant] We're digressing. But Savannah is that kind of aunt, you know, where you're just like, you, when you decide to do it, if you decide to do it, you're going to be amazing at it. You can tell. Exactly.


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[Assistant] They are atrocious. They had been dating for about three years at the time they were in the apartment, but their relationship was completely volatile.


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[Assistant] And it wasn't a huge complex, there were only seven units within this building, so the neighbors knew where the sounds were coming from.


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[Assistant] It is. On one occasion, William actually threw Brooke into their bathtub and later pleaded guilty to assault. My god.


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[Assistant] But just six months later, the police were called to the apartment again for another disturbance report. And sure enough, William was there when he should not have been.


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[Assistant] The, the cops get there and they're like, you're not supposed to be here, like you're in trouble again, but it would not be the only time that he would violate these orders.


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[Assistant] It does. An ex of hers who was left to raise that daughter on his own commented, quote, it just seemed like she was more into doing her partying, doing her own thing and not wanting to have anything holding her back. And she wanted to go off and do what she wanted to do. Then do that and be by yourself.


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[Assistant] Now talking a little bit more about her boyfriend William there, interestingly enough he actually sued his parents for child support when he was 16. Wow. So I can't imagine that he really had like an idyllic childhood. No.


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[Assistant] Such a weird kind of like ironic piece of information there. Yeah, and it's like people, like they came together having this similar experience.


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[Assistant] Yeah, exactly. Now, he also seems to have children. It appears that he has two children. And in 2012, he actually pleaded guilty to abuse or neglect of a child, which carries a felony. It carries as a felony.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, according to the Dickinson Press, back in 2011, William brought his young son to the hospital for medical care, and when the baby was checked out, it turned out that the baby had a fractured skull.


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[Assistant] Now this is going to fucking enrage everybody listening. Somehow he was only sentenced to one year in jail for this and got two years probation. This is what happens though. I feel like this kind of shit is not taken seriously enough and it happens all the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm like, how do you fracture your own child's skull and then just literally get slapped on the wrist? That's what happens. Fractured, like, not only like, just like fractured somebody else's skull because that is horrific in its own right, but you actually had a part in creating this specific human that you're abusing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's a baby. And it's a baby. What does a baby do to deserve any kind of abuse? Exactly. Exactly. All they do is rely on you for literally everything.


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[Assistant] Right, and like it is your choice to have them. Yeah, and it's you're supposed to be a safe place for them. And it's like, it always breaks my heart to like think of these things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it happens so often and then they, it happens a lot that they get a slap on the wrist or it gets ignored and then the abuse continues. We've seen it like over and over and over.


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[Assistant] And it's like the abuse keeps happening and eventually that kid gets murdered and then everybody's like, huh, weird, something should have been done. Yeah.


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[Assistant] That's what we're working with here. And just keep the information about that felony charge and plea in your back pocket because that's gonna come back later. Oh boy.


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[Assistant] So really just all around people in a shitty situation with just no motivation to better things for themselves, their family or anybody around them. Cool.


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[Assistant] Now, Savannah and her family, for clear reasons, didn't actually, uh, associate too much with these particular neighbors, but they were friendly enough, like her family, they would say hello in passing. Just like neighbors. If they needed to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She went down to Savannah's apartment specifically and she said, oh, you know, I've been working on sewing this dress and I just need to have somebody try it on so I can get like the final pins in place. So this, this is so...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Planned. So planned. And it's so planned in a way that's like, hey, I know that she'll help me because she's a kind person and she'll do this.


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[Assistant] Like let me just take full advantage of that. Yeah, of the good person that she is.


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[Assistant] She probably knew this is a young mother who's about to move out on her own. Of course she's gonna like do anything she can for a little extra cash. Of course. She's bringing a freaking baby into the room. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Savannah agreed and she was like, oh sure, like I'll be up in just a minute.


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[Assistant] And she told her mom, she was like, oh, like, I'm just going to go help out this lady, but just so you know, I just ordered a pizza. Like I left the money over there. It's going to be coming soon. So if it gets here while I'm here, like blah, blah, blah, whatever.


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[Assistant] And before turning to leave, she commented to her mom and said something along the lines of, you don't think this lady's crazy, right? And her mom said like, of course I don't.


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[Assistant] How would she know that they're upstairs neighbor who they honestly probably felt bad for knowing that the cops were coming all the time. How could she know that she was planning exactly what she was? She couldn't. She 100% couldn't.


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[Assistant] And normal happy like sweet people do not assume that this woman that's asking this pregnant woman to come down to her apartment to help her out is gonna do something at all. Like no one would ever think that, that's just never.


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[Assistant] Like, I know I'm this way, I'm like, I don't want to help anybody. Like, I'm not. A trap. You just don't know. That's the thing.


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[Assistant] All I know is that it was clearly just something to say to confuse Savannah and start a fight. Oh yea, just to start it off on like an aggressive kind of note.


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[Assistant] Exactly. So at some point, it started off aggressive, it gets more aggressive and escalates.


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[Assistant] We had to go through like getting a doctor's note, cause like, at that, you'd have to be like super careful cause you can like go into labor.


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[Assistant] So it was a big whole thing and I got so freaked out that I didn't go at the last second because I was like, I feel so helpless and like vulnerable and I, I just don't want to be in a vulnerable position while pregnant with someone I don't know.


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[Assistant] It's coming, just so you know. Skip forward. Oh yeaah. So she knocks Savannah unconscious to the ground and then she goes and gets some kind of knife from the kitchen. It was just like nobody knew exactly what kind of knife it was. It could have been like a utility knife. It could have been a kitchen knife. I'm not sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But she cut Savannah from hip to hip and performed.


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[Assistant] And luckily, I'm just gonna let you all know right away, the baby lives. Oh, thank goodness. Unfortunately, Savannah would not survive this.


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[Assistant] She was alive when the baby was quote unquote delivered, but she was essentially just bleeding out because she didn't have proper medical care. So she was alive when she cut that baby out of her stomach?


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[Assistant] Like, you know that you are two monstrous pieces of shit when one of you can walk into your home on a random day and see a woman who has had a baby cut out of her womb on the floor and your first reaction is, is she dead?


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[Assistant] I would- You don't have any other questions? You're not completely blown away by the fact that there is a heart- like a wounded woman in your home right now? Like you don't- what? Not at all. Wow. Now, Brooke's response? I'm not sure. Please help me.


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[Assistant] What? I have no words. I have no words for these fuckers. I really like, wow. And they've both brought children into the world themselves. That's like a really wild thing to me. For her at least seven times. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.


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[Assistant] So it was then that he grabbed a rope and manually, manually strangled Savannah to death to, to finish it off. What fucking, I can't say it enough, what fucking monsters.


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[Assistant] Absolute fucking monsters. Now, the- him, like, finishing-


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[Assistant] Everything and with the rope was actually later debated because some people thought that it was actually Brooke who had done that.


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[Assistant] And his past tells us everything we need to know about who he is. He's a violent person. It's very clear. Yeah. They are irredeemable. They truly are.


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[Assistant] Because her mother, Norbetta, started panicking because Savannah hadn't said she was going anywhere other than upstairs. And when she hadn't come back down after a little bit, Norbetta actually went upstairs and knocked on the door to see like, oh, like, what's going on? Like, where is she?


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[Assistant] And Brooke told her that Savannah had actually left her on 2.30 that afternoon. Meanwhile, she's literally on her bathroom floor.


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[Assistant] And of course, this doesn't make any sense to Norbetta because Savannah had not returned home, her wallet was left in her and her family's apartment, her car was parked in the driveway, and on top of all of that, she hadn't answered her cell phone at all that day, and that was just nothing that she would do, and her cell phone wasn't anywhere to be found.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she, when she left, she was like, hey, I ordered a pizza. If it gets here before I get back.


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[Assistant] How, like, such a regular day that would be. Yea, you just ordered a pizza. Like, it's just like crazy to think that she


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[Assistant] Like to think of her actually like dialing the phone, ordering that, and then going upstairs, like. Having no idea. So haunting. It really is.


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[Assistant] Norbetta obviously has no choice but to call the police and report her daughter missing. And she tells them the last place that she knew Savannah was going was upstairs and she hadn't seen her since then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now obviously the police know these people well, so they come upstairs, they knock on the door about 5pm. They search around the apartment.


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[Assistant] And they find nothing. Oh, come on. Which is wild, because there's a baby. Are you kidding? And a deceased young woman inside of this apartment somewhere. What the fuck? Yeah, didn't find the baby. Didn't find anything. Newborn, like a legitimately newborn baby. Yup. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, they come back the next day. They do another search. They find nothing.


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[Assistant] And these two pieces of shit have a very long history of violence and being pieces of shit. Oh yeah.


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[Assistant] Now, Brooke would later tell the investigators that while the police were searching their apartment the first time, Savannah's body was hidden in the bathroom closet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So all they would have had to do is open that closet.


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[Assistant] Oh my god. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have saved her life, but it's like, you could have found the baby way sooner. Yeah, exactly.


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[Assistant] Under blankets. Under blankets. That's safe.


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[Assistant] The couple carried the dresser down that he had hauled out with Savannah's body in it and they loaded it into their Jeep. They obviously did this at night. They would go out strictly at night with the baby. I was just gonna say, either leaving the baby at home or taking the baby with them is both are bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and like she later said that like she took the baby to Walmart like at night. So she was just walking around this community where everybody knows that.


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[Assistant] Like what has gone on? And nobody's like turning around and noticing this. And no one see, like, and the thing that's killing me is like even people who did probably see this person, it's like they're seeing Savannah's baby and they don't even realize it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. But the thing is, this, this couple was said to be under surveillance.


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[Assistant] So, apparently, like, at work, William wasn't so careful with his words, and had mentioned something about taking care of a baby to a few of his coworkers, and they were like, what the fuck? And,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everybody, again, remember I mentioned this is not a big apartment building. It's like seven units. People within the apartment building started hearing a baby crying. Oh my god.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But either way, the people who heard that and the coworkers put two and two together since


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the co-workers actually went to the police on August 23rd, which was four days after Savannah had gone missing with their information.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, with this pretty big lead, the police were able to get a full-blown search warrant, which they served the next day. And when they did, they luckily found the newborn baby alive and well and found Brooke and William just taking care of the baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fact that their plan here was just to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, we ripped this baby out of a poor woman.


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[Assistant] How did, how did you figure that out in your head that this was gonna work? That's wild. How did you figure out in your head that this was an acceptable, okay, appropriate thing to do? Well just, it, this is where like when we look into these stories, it takes my mind to like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just such a harsh place because I just think about it and I'm like, these people.


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[Assistant] Left their apartment building during the day. And there's no doubt, obviously, I mean, they talked to the mom while Savannah was in the apartment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's like they're walking around knowing what they've done and knowing that they have her grandchild and knowing like Ashton knowing they have his baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yup. And they're walking around acting like this is, and it's not killing them. Like this hasn't destroyed them from the inside out as humans. You have to be a sick, messed up, fucked in the head individual. You're not a human.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was September 11th when she was finally reunited with her family, and it had been three weeks since she'd been found. Ugh, they were probably so...


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[Assistant] Just like her mama. I was just gonna say that. I'm looking at pictures because Savannah is


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[Assistant] Beautiful. Just breathtaking, like breathtaking. And oh my goodness, she is the cutest. She's the sweetest babe.


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[Assistant] Like, she takes your breath away, this baby. And she really, she really looks just like her mama.


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[Assistant] She does. And there's a, um, there's a Facebook group. I'm not sure if that's what you're on right now, but I'll link that too. And the family will give like periodic updates about how she's, how the kid, the baby is doing. Oh, I love that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think she's gonna be like five pretty soon. Oh my god, she's so beautiful. Oh, and she looks like her dad too. She's got like a perfect mix. She really does. Oh man, she's like gorgeous.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, for real. So Brooke and William were, uh, quickly arrested. Thank goodness. But they refused to give any information on Savannah's whereabouts. What pieces of fucking shit. Every time, like, you think it's gotten as bad as it could possibly get from the two of them, it gets worse.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, it would be another three days before Savannah's body was found. Her body was found Sunday, August 27th by a couple of people kayaking on Red River. Uhm, this is a little graphic just so you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Horrific, but also kind of lucky because I don't know how soon she would have been found otherwise. Yeaah. Thank goodness she was found. A total of eight days. Now with the medical examiner, so bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When the medical examiner finished the autopsy, they claimed that it was clear this woman was a victim of homicidal violence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ugh, that like, just gave me chills. I knew this already and it gave me chills again too, just, and you know what? She really was. Yeah, she, ugh, I just, I hate that this baby was robbed of her as a mother.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And like, that's the thing, like such a great mom. Like somebody that would have like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now of course, Brooke and William turn on each other as soon as they are brought into custody and they're told that the body is found.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Brooke told the investigators that on the day she went missing, Savannah had asked her how to induce early childbirth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She then told the authorities that Savannah came back two days later in the middle of the night. She had a newborn baby and she asked Brooke to take the baby.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wow, Brooke, not only are you an actual piece of shit, but you are the worst liar I've ever heard in my life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She did badly. She told the court that she had lied to her boyfriend William earlier that year about being pregnant because she knew that he wanted a baby really badly and she thought that was going to save their relationship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A baby isn't going to fix you to being pieces of shit together. That's not going to help.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now he demanded that she quote unquote produce a baby for them. Cause that's how that works. You just produce a baby. Who are these people?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would, they would think that I had just done some kind of magic trick because I would exit from that premises so quickly. I'm just astounded that these two are violent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Awful toxic people in a toxic, violent, awful relationship and they were like, let's bring a newborn into this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, that sounds good, right? And not only that, but like, let me forcibly tell you to bring a newborn into this. Like, produce a baby. What?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He just said that when he got home from work that night that all this happened, he walked in the door.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And just be like, this is our family now. Whoa. No, it's not. Like that is not your family. That is not yours. You stole that in the worst imaginable way. I, that's just it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he just, and like you said, he just doesn't, he's just like, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, Brooke ended up pleading guilty to all the charges that I listed earlier, and she did apologize on the stand, saying, I'm just really, really, really sorry. I wish I could take their pain. I wish I hadn't done this. There's no excuse. There's no rationalization. There's nothing. I know it doesn't help, but I'm sorry. I'm guilty, and I deserve every year that I get. Yeah, Brooke, you know what you can do with that apology.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just started off with, I'm really, really, really sorry. Like listen Brooke, you're not a teenager that just like got a ding on her dad's new red convertible. Exactly. You took a human life, you took somebody's daughter, you took somebody's sister, you took somebody's mother, and then on top of that, you took that person's baby. And just to be, I'm really sorry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm really really really sorry. I'm really sorry that I decided to plan out inviting her over to my home where I could ambush her and then cut a child out of her womb.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and then to say I deserve every year I get, we know. Yeah, exactly, and it's like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'd rather them just say silent. I don't think any of them should be allowed to say I'm sorry. 100%. We just have that thought at the exact same time. Because sorry means absolute dog shit at that moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because you don't have to be sorry if you just don't do it. That's why we have a filter in our head that says that's probably a bad idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Murdering another human being is something you should never get to the point of having to be sorry for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Put that everywhere. Like you said, like, it's not like you dinged your dad's convertible, oops, that, yeah, sorry. Didn't mean to do that. Really, really sorry. That was a, that was a my bad moment. Oopsie. Like, whatever, but it's like you,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] System you like plan to this out meticulously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh huh. And you put this poor woman who's already vulnerable in like eight months pregnant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In danger, and then you cut the baby from her womb and then murdered her.


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[Assistant] And then stole that baby and then acted like it was yours. That's just beyond my comprehension. That's good.


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[Assistant] And for the conspiracy to commit kidnapping the judge also imposed the maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. So she got the maximum on almost every charge. Good. As she should.


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[Assistant] So when the public gets a hold of this story, a few other people come forward with experiences that they also had with Brooke that now made them even more uncomfortable than they previously had in the past. Oh no.


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[Assistant] This woman at lunch says that this was 100% Brooke and she was actually with William. Oh my God, I hate this.


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[Assistant] The woman, who is Brooke, comes over to their table to compliment the baby and apparently just kept staring at the baby and repeating, she's exactly what I want. Oh my god.


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[Assistant] I'm like, that just gave me full chills. I would be like, you need to get away from my baby right now.


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[Assistant] And these poor people, they're trying to be, like, polite. You're trying to be, like... Yeah. Like...


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[Assistant] Now this man who she was married to, I think they were only married like a couple months, and he found different journals of hers and found out that she not only had a bunch of kids living in America, because she had told him that she didn't have any children.


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[Assistant] He found that, all of that out, but also found- Imagine doing that when you have kids. Like imagine your kids finding out later that you were like, yeah, I don't have kids.


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[Assistant] Scissors, gloves, clamps, just- She was planning to do this a long time ago. Bizarre shit dude, absolutely.


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[Assistant] You asked a lot of questions and the answer to all of them is no.


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[Assistant] No, like yeaah, we can have two different personalities for sure. I'm a Gemini, I'm all about that. But like, not one of them includes stealing a baby from the mother's womb. Yeaah, and not all of us have that like, nasty dark side. No. Like, sorry.


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[Assistant] Oh absolutely, not a doubt in my mind. Yeah, not a doubt in my mind. Which is wild because I'm like, you have actually seven chances at getting good at this. Like, at really like,


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[Assistant] And it's like, or even just give a shit about. Like you, you couldn't even, you couldn't even give one fuck. You had no fucks to give about seven other kids. And it's like,


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[Assistant] And it's like, I wonder if she left these kids after they were not like in that baby phase anymore, like maybe she's just this


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[Assistant] Maybe. I know that her oldest daughter who ended up having to sue her for child support, she left, I believe she left when she was like younger and then actually became like more involved in the child's life when she was like 13 or 14 and then just vanished again. So I think she was kind of one of those that like maybe goes in and out or


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[Assistant] For some of them she did that and then for other kids she just completely abandoned them. My god. It just seemed to be a hot mess. I don't get it. And I feel so bad for all the kids. Yeaah, they deserve better. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] And for people that were married to her, like, I can't imagine finding that out, like- Yeah.


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[Assistant] Moving on now to William. He had also been charged with the same counts that Brooke pleaded guilty to. Uhm, he was acquitted on the charge of conspiracy to commit murder because they were not technically able to determine how Savannah died, like they couldn't say if it was the strangulation or if it was from bleeding out.


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[Assistant] And they also couldn't determine whether he really did.


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[Assistant] So the prosecution though, they wanted to be sure that they could obviously get this guy put away for a long time and they were really banking on a life sentence. So in order to do so,


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[Assistant] Now they were specifically citing, obviously, the 2011-2012 incident and felony charge of neglecting or abusing a child. So at first, that worked.


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[Assistant] The judge, Judge Tom Olson sentenced William to a life sentence in prison saying later, I knew the only fair and just sentence would be the maximum allowed by law. Yeah.


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[Assistant] That the previous charge used to label him as a dangerous offender.


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[Assistant] And this is why the justice system is broken.


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[Assistant] This is why, and this is a perfect example, he was charged with abuse or neglect of a child.


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[Assistant] This is what happens though. I feel like it's, we see it all the time. They say, they look at that and they go, well, that doesn't really tell us anything. Really? Because I think it's worse than in person who kills an adult.


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[Assistant] Anybody who hurts or murders a child is a whole different kind of beast.


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[Assistant] That we can't ever let walk free. Like. No. No. And for some reason in this country we take it like it's not as big a deal. It's the same thing as like abusing or killing animals. It's like.


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[Assistant] We don't take it seriously for some weird fucking reason and it is such an indication of such shit to come and for some reason we're still just, nope, not a big deal. No, it's fine.


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[Assistant] So yeaah, so he gets retried, he gets re-sentenced, and his new sentence was 20 years in prison, excuse me.


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[Assistant] Plus one year to be served consecutively.


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[Assistant] He got credit for time served which was 775 days. Are you shitting me? Nope.


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[Assistant] This man is gonna walk around in less than 20 years. Yup.


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[Assistant] Glad you get ours, we don't get yours. Lock the key, rotten there. Rotten there. Like, I'm all for...


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[Assistant] And not only how horrific this one instance was, but that they have this habitual


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[Assistant] A pathology of behavior. This isn't one, even this one instance I'd be like, I can't understand how you come back from that and become a human being. I don't get it. But you tack on all that other shit, that pathology of abuse and violence and just


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[Assistant] Piece of shitness? And you're telling me that man is gonna come out of prison? A changed person? Like, I don't buy it.


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[Assistant] No, and to sit there and be like, I'm not even mad about it. Nobody fucking asked if you were mad about it.


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[Assistant] I want you to be. Like, don't, you just did that to be like, meh, like, doesn't fucking matter to me. I don't care.


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[Assistant] In a boo boo, like fuck off. Yeah, no one asked how you felt about your sentencing you piece of garbage. That's actually not a part of this. No.


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[Assistant] But obviously Savannah's family was incredibly upset and her mother's response was, we want justice. He deserves a life sentence. I don't think this man should ever walk free. He betrayed our family. He looked us in the eye with a straight face while our daughter lay dead in his apartment. Please don't ever consider letting him out. Is there anything that can be done?


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[Assistant] I guess that you would just have to call, like, representatives in North Cara- er, excuse me, uh, North Dakota and ask for him to not be released, but I-


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[Assistant] Wow. It's crazy. It's crazy. And she's right. He walked by that family every single time he saw them since he knew what happened to their daughter.


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[Assistant] And just looked at them knowing full well where their daughter was, where their grandchild was.


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[Assistant] It really is. Now, gearing things back to Savannah now, almost a thousand people attended her funeral.


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[Assistant] There's a plaque with her name nailed to a tree by the bridge and not too far from the bridge there's this like giant beautiful sunflower field which is so beautifully ironic because that was Savannah's favorite flower. Oh, I love it. Right?


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[Assistant] Now, in the aftermath of Savannah's murder, a lot of those close to her, specifically her parents, felt that the Fargo Police Department just did not do enough. They felt like the reaction was far too slow when she was first reported missing and then


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[Assistant] I don't even know how they sat there and knew that law enforcement was in that apartment multiple times while Savannah and the baby were both in that apart- and it's not even like a house, it's an apartment. That's the thing. How did you not hear them?


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[Assistant] Now, David Todd, the chief of police, basically said something along the lines of like, the investigation would have gone differently if we knew that the person we were searching for was dead. Uhm.


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[Assistant] But that's actually, those are the same things. Well I feel, and it's like, isn't part of like, investigatory work not going in with a preconceived narrative of what has happened there? You don't know what's happened. You're just looking for that person. You go in and you let


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[Assistant] Not at all. Now, tribal leaders across North Dakota were outraged and demanded that something be done, and luckily something was done. Ooh.


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[Assistant] So, former North Dakota Attorney General and former North Dakota Senator Heidi Heitkamp proposed Savannah's Act, which would require that the Department of Justice, and this next part that I'm gonna say is straight from the congress.gov site,


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[Assistant] Uh, quote, provide training to law enforcement agency, eh, agency, sorry, on how to record tribal enrollment for victims in federal databases. Develop and implement a strategy to educate the public on the national missing and unidentified person system.


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[Assistant] Develop regionally appropriate guidelines for responses to cases of missing or murdered Native Americans. Provide training and technical assistance to tribes and law enforcement agencies for implementation and developed guidelines and report statistics on missing and murdered Native Americans.


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[Assistant] First of all, like I'm so glad that that happened and I'm so glad it's called Savannah's Law.


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[Assistant] Yeah, Savannah's Act, I love that. Savannah's Act, but how sad is it that it took this long? Just for it to be like, hey.


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[Assistant] We should probably train police forces on how to just try to look for these people. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it took that long. And then it's sad that somebody decided to do their fucking last move in office blocking this bill. Are you kidding me? No, I'm not. So what is the reason?


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[Assistant] Increased communication between federal, state, and tribal officials.


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[Assistant] He said, you know, I agree with the bill overall, but I just want, I reject that certain provision.


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[Assistant] Luckily Savannah's law was passed and it wasn't, but it wasn't signed into law until October of 2020. That's wild. It's absolutely insane. I'm glad it was passed though.


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[Assistant] I'm glad it was passed too, and a second act, the Not Invisible Act, was brought alongside it, and that act is to quote unquote, increase intergovernmental coordination to identify and combat violent crime with Indian lands and of Indians.


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[Assistant] I wanna point out that obviously I know you're supposed to say Native Americans, but for some reason a lot of the language still says Indians. I don't know why they're not changing that. If there's like, if like,


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[Assistant] And actually last Thanksgiving, they had this campaign called Pass the Red Purse, where they told stories of like their struggles as Indigenous people and specifically women.


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[Assistant] I'm also going to link the Safe Women Strong Nations campaign that's being organized by the Indian Law Resource Center.


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[Assistant] And again, so I saw Indian being used there too, so I'm not sure.


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[Assistant] What that's about. If you want to explain that to me, I would love to be enlightened. Yeah, if you would like email us and let us know because I really do want to know what that's about because it does feel like so. Feels wrong. Yeah, because I'm like, yeah.


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[Assistant] I want to say the right thing and that's what that place is called and it seems as though they're doing like great things for indigenous people, so. So let us know.


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[Assistant] Yeah, because guys, when we did, uh, the Katie Hawelka case, and I linked to that petition, you guys got that petition blown up. That thing went from 8,000 signatures to the last I looked at it, it was like 40,000. Yeah. Uhm, you guys, and you guys did that. You did that.


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[Assistant] Let's go flood these sites with donations if you're able to. If you're not able to do donations, there's so many other things you can do. There's numbers you can call, there's events that you can do, and let's just do that all in Savannah's name.


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[Assistant] Yeah, let's do it and we'll link all of this stuff so it'll be easier for you guys to follow.


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[Assistant] And obviously that was incredibly difficult in the beginning, like your whole life is turned upside down. You're mourning the woman that you were with for seven years of your life, and then you're a dad, like all at once.


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[Assistant] I can't imagine that. But he said that he's got a good rhythm going now.


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[Assistant] That update, I mentioned that the family, Savannah's family has a Facebook page where they update anybody interested and I was looking through it the other night and I saw that there's actually a GoFundMe set up right now for Ashton.


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[Assistant] And I'm not sure what happened, uhm, basically the family, like his family is saying that he's very private and they don't want to let all the information out. But there's a GoFundMe set up for him and it says basically that he's like fighting for his life and


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[Assistant] I know, yeah. Geez. Well, let's make sure we blow that up and we make sure we do whatever we can in Savannah's name here.


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[Assistant] Definitely. That is the case of Savannah LaFontaine Grey Wind and she deserved so much more. Yes she did and so did her family.


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[Assistant] Crazy. It's a crazy world. Man, that was a tough one, but thank you for sharing it because it needed to be shared.


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[Assistant] You're welcome. And again, I'll put all of that information that I kinda like flooded you with at the end that will all be in the show notes. Yeah, definitely. I can also see if we can get that posted on social media as well. Perfect. Sweet.


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[Assistant] We hope that you keep listening, guys. And we hope you keep it.


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[Assistant] I am back. No, this is just, uhm, sorry about my voice, uhm, it's saucy and spicy again. Uhm, yeaah, it's a lot, but I'm just still, we're in that fun time of year where me and the kids are just


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[Assistant] Throwing back and forth illnesses, it's a lot of fun. It's really gross up in here.


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's one of the, I saw a TikTok the other day where parents were like, this household has gone how many days without illness? And I saw it, it said two days and they were erasing the two to say zero. And I was like, that is the realest thing I've ever seen. Because people without kids are like people who haven't been around kids will be like, why are you always sick?


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[Assistant] Yeah, and they don't believe you and they want to just be like, you're gross. And it's like, no, like, this is reality as you just live in a petri dish for some parts of the year. And this is that part of the year.


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[Assistant] I used to like it. I don't like it so much now that- You used to?


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[Assistant] But you know what, we're gonna start right in because I don't know how far I can get and how long this will take to get there. So we're gonna talk today about something a little different. There's mystery here, there's a disappearance here.


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[Assistant] There's some spooky tales here, but it is the disappearance of Theodosia Burr-Alston.


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[Assistant] Now in case you don't know, Theodosia Burr is in fact the daughter of Aaron Burr. Imagine that. Of Hamilton fame.


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[Assistant] Uh, this is going to be really hard for me not to sing Hamilton songs, but I think I will be aided by the fact that if I sing, I will cough. So, I was just going to say, so this is really just to everybody's benefit.


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[Assistant] They are. So maybe I'll just speak some of the lines every once in a while. Spoken word. But this is a very interesting one because it is still unsolved. We don't know what happened to Theodosia Burr.


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[Assistant] Uhm, the ship manifests. Oh, yeaah. Yeaah, it's, uhm, Dorothy Arnold.


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[Assistant] A little bit, that one was a little easier because there was actual...


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[Assistant] Let's start at the beginning, or not even at the beginning, let's start at the act itself.


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[Assistant] Relatively notorious founding father, Aaron Burr, boarded a schoonership aptly named Patriots.


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[Assistant] She was on her way to New York from, um, South Carolina. Uh, she was going to meet her father, Aaron. They had planned a meeting and that's why she was going to New York. Cause as we'll talk about, Aaron had just come back from being, um,


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[Assistant] Little bit of a runaway in Europe a little bit for some little reason. So he was back, so she wanted to visit him. But once the ship had left port in South Carolina,


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[Assistant] That was the last time anyone would see Theodosia Burr. Or the Patriot again. Mmm. Ship was gone. Yeah.


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[Assistant] So, Theodosia, in case, like I said, in case you don't know who this is.


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[Assistant] Uhm, she was born into American aristocracy when this all began.


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[Assistant] She lived a life young women could only dream of. She was an aristocat. She was an aristocat. She was the daughter of one of our founding fathers, America's founding fathers, and she was literally there for the birth of our nation, which is pretty wild when you think about it. Pretty nuts.


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[Assistant] And then she's there for the unprecedented scandal.


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[Assistant] That followed her father's trial for treason.


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[Assistant] If you know who Aaron Burr is, you probably know the one thing about him, which is he shot and killed Alexander Hamilton. That's probably what you know about him, and he was tried for treason.


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[Assistant] But when you learn about how he was as a father and how he was as a husband, you're like for a minute, you're like, wow, like you're just such a good guy, which like maybe he was, but like, then you get these little snips that you're like, god damn it, no one's ever nice, huh?


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[Assistant] It's really wild. It's just like, damn it America. But either way, she was here for all of that. But as an adult, she married Joseph Alston. So she didn't


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[Assistant] For two full centuries, we have no idea what has happened to Theodosia Burr.


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[Assistant] Like we are all still scratching our head for answers. To this day, we don't know what happened.


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[Assistant] All we can think of was she ca- was she kidnapped by pirates? That's a very real, that's a very real possibility. And they just like destroyed the ship.


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[Assistant] They took off the patriot name and we don't know that it's there. You know, was the ship lost at sea without a trace? Was there some kind of weather event? We're going to talk about that. What happened? Where is she?


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[Assistant] So, let's go back to the beginning. Theodosia Burr was born to Aaron Burr and Theodosia Prevaux Burr.


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[Assistant] Uhm, her father, like we said, was already pretty well known. He had a lot of power, a lot of influence. Uhm, and he had actually entered the war as a volunteer soldier, but he had quickly risen to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel by the time that he was then forced to resign from the Continental Army in 1776. But outside of all the military stuff,


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[Assistant] Erin was known to be super hardworking, really influential, uh, he, he, he went after what he wanted, especially, he had a successful law practice. Yeah.


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[Assistant] He maintained a really big social network that really had some of the most powerful people in New England in it. So he was living.


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[Assistant] Maybe, she might as well. So, Theodosia's parents had a somewhat, uhm, unconventional path to marriage. Especially for colonial era.


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[Assistant] Now, Aaron and his wife, Theodosia Sr., met while Theodosia Sr. was still married to a man named Jacques Preveaux, who was a British officer with the Royal American Regiment.


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[Assistant] Remember that part of Hamilton where Burr sings, Theodosia writes me a letter every day. I'm keeping her bed warm while her husband is away.


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[Assistant] Oh, so that's what happened. He's on the British side in Georgia. He's trying to keep the colonies in line, but he can keep all of Georgia. Theodosia, she's mine. Ooh, sauce. I kind of love their love.


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[Assistant] It's like very Romeo and Juliet, you're not supposed to be together. I do love their love, I have to say that. So after Prevot's unexpected death from yellow fever in 1871, which by the way, throughout this entire thing, they very openly had an affair.


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[Assistant] You know, rip. He did. You know, rip. Despite the couple carrying, again, like I said, an open affair before he died.


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[Assistant] You know what? They really didn't really get a ton of shit for it. Yeah, which is pretty cool. Uhm, you know, they're, they made a lot of sacrifices, like patriotic sacrifices during the war that I guess people


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[Assistant] Kinda we're like alright, we can still respect you. Okay. We can still hang out with you. They admired them. Their social circle really didn't fall apart at this time. Good.


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[Assistant] Of course, there was a little bit of gossip. It's not like people were like, oh, we don't give a shit at all.


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[Assistant] He has street cred now. Now usually people back then were marrying for very practical reasons. That was why you got married. It was for station, it was for getting you in a better situation.


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[Assistant] But they legit married purely out of love.


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[Assistant] Which, and like love, mutual respect, and just like their, their likes and dislikes were very aligned. They had like very much an intellectual companionship. Like this was one of those things where you look at it and you go, yeah, that was like,


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[Assistant] They both shared a real love of arts and culture that wasn't really common at the time, and for like a woman and a man to find each other, and that was very, yeaah, and it was cool.


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[Assistant] He lost his mind, like he, in like a good way, like he just, and everybody was like, the love he had for his wife just trickled right down into his daughter.


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[Assistant] And historians have actually said it was the soul, that she was the soul of her father's soul. That's how they were like.


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[Assistant] But this one was really bad. They both did recover, but Theodosia Senior dealt with a lot of After Effects. Uhm.


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[Assistant] And when they did, Burr moved, like when they were, you know, both up and running, Burr moved his family from Albany to a rented house at number three Wall Street where his law practice could really grow just exponentially faster.


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[Assistant] And during that period, Aaron Burr became one of the most sought after lawyers in New York. He earned a ton of money. And the good news with this was, in his case, was that now he got to spend time with his family. He didn't have to be away from them traveling all the time at the time. And he could really invest in their future, make sure that they were set up. Beautiful.


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[Assistant] At the time he was killing it. He's operating his own legal practice. He's serving as a New York State Assemblyman between 1784 and 85. And Theodosia Sr., like I said, was unfortunately dealing with a lot of after effects from the traumatic birth.


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[Assistant] And when they were apart, Burr would just write love letters, like to his wife and to his daughter. Like these letters were just like them talking about how much they loved and missed each other. All of them, like all three of them, like the sweetest thing ever.


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[Assistant] So in 1785, Theodosia Sr. gave birth to a second daughter, who they named Sally. Cute. Now before Sally and after Theodosia, the birds had dealt with two stillbirths, tragically, yeaah. So Sally was celebrated immensely, just like little Theodosia was. She's like a rainbow baby. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] And although Burr was traveling a lot during this time, he really did try to spend as much time as he could with his family and just kind of keeping up what was happening in New York.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, and it was only, what, three years after, I think she was only three or four, she was young.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so after Sally's death, young Theodosia became even more the apple of her parents eye. Of course. More lavish with attention and praise than ever. And Burr just exploded all over her whenever he could.


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[Assistant] In a good way. And her parents, like he didn't just like scream at her.


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[Assistant] Her parents were just so thankful to still have her, and the Burs put a lot of attention on her education as well, which was different for girls of that time.


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[Assistant] Burr was actually the main teacher for Theodosia, but Theodosia Senior took over when he had to travel. And she took classes in reading, dance, music.


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[Assistant] That's very much what young girls would be learning back then, but much unlike young girls of her age at the time, Erin insisted that she also have classes in math, writing and language. Good.


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[Assistant] He wanted his daughter to have everything she needed or wanted in this life. And he knew that she needed to be prepared and she also needed to carry on the legacy of him being a very well educated man. So it was like a double sided thing here.


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[Assistant] His letters while he was away would often just be him being like, how is her education progressing? Do you need any help? He would offer to like hire tutors at like twice the amount just to make sure she could like keep up with everything.


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[Assistant] And she was actually able to read and write pretty fluently by five years old.


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[Assistant] Holy shit. Like, not like, oh I'm starting to learn how to read at five, it's like no I can literally read anything you give me.


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[Assistant] You know, he also had a lot of instruction for her, like, this is how you are a good person, which is good. This is how you teach your kid to be a good person. You don't lie, you don't cheat, you don't steal.


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[Assistant] It didn't always extend to his own life, which could be a problem. Because while he was away, as much as he loved his wife, he had several extramarital affairs, uh, not great.


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[Assistant] And that's what I mean when I say like, you were doing so good. Right. Why do you have to cheat on your wife?


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[Assistant] Worst choice. Like come on man, like why can't you all, why can't you just be good? Like just be good. Like fully good. But I guess no one can, but like, bummer. So, great father, loved Theodosia Sr., but like,


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[Assistant] Luckily men, he was gonna have to travel less, so that's great.


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[Assistant] And his background in law and his huge network of super powerful politically, political friends made him an instant success in the political realm.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but there was a lot of pressure, and it was taking a huge toll on his health. Like, he was exhausted, he was stressed, and then at home, Theodosia Sr.'s health is still declining. She's not doing great from everything.


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[Assistant] Yeah, exactly. And she had struggled obviously since the birth of Theodosia. Yeah, there you go. She had struggled since the birth, which was at this point about 10 years earlier. She was still struggling from that. And by 1793, um, it was kind of apparent that she was really going to continue to decline.


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[Assistant] And she would, she would just be coughing like constantly and she would have like daily she was dealing with nausea and vomiting, a lot of stomach pain. Burr's friend Dr. Benjamin Rush actually recommended that she take small doses of Hemlock to treat this, which, uh,


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[Assistant] Yeah, you really weren't on it. Now in the months leading up to her death, they actually prescribed her, so like I said, hemlock. At one point they prescribed her chocolate and wine.


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[Assistant] Strangely, none of it did anything to relieve her pain. Uhm, unfortunately, Theodosia Sr. died in the family's New York home on May 18th, 1794.


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[Assistant] What is believed now to have been either stomach or uterine cancer?


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[Assistant] Erin Burr was away in Philadelphia. Oh man. So as she was in this final stages in pain and suffering. She was alone. Theodosia, no, she had her daughter.


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[Assistant] Who was only 11 at the time though, and was in the, like caring for her mother. And she was the one who was there.


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[Assistant] Now in the wake of Theodosia Seniors passing, this is when, um, or excuse me, Yeaah, Theodosia Seniors passing, young Theodosia had to step into the role as woman of the house now.


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[Assistant] Um, so now not only was she taking on new responsibilities, but she was also now the full center of Aaron Burr's world. Like this was it.


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[Assistant] And he had a lot of influence over her, but he was, but it was like,


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[Assistant] Pretty good influence, I would say. She turned out really great, so uhm, he was very much pushing her to be


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[Assistant] The best she could be, continuing her education, giving her a lot of moral instruction despite, you know, not adhering to it himself. But she was killing it. She was doing amazingly. She was achieving far more than her peers were, so. Good for her. Good for her.


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[Assistant] And although she was like the center of his world, this was a good thing and a bad thing because she was also lonely.


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[Assistant] She was kind of there to take on all the role of her mother, so she was there just kind of walking through this like sprawling mansion by herself when he was gone.


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[Assistant] And also just, she had to, when she got old enough, she had to like host the dinner parties and the social events and manage the staff. And you know, by the way, there were also enslaved people on this property. So that's what I mean when like you can look at like.


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[Assistant] But she took on all of that and by the time she reached the age of 18 in 1801 she had received more and better of an education than men.


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[Assistant] She's a badass. She really is a testament to the whole, the whole upbringing she had.


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[Assistant] Jill Evans has it all. A big house, fast car, and a great career as a decorated police sergeant in Wales. But when it comes to love, she can just never seem to get things right. And after multiple failed engagements, Jill is starting to think it's just never going to happen for her.


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[Assistant] That is, until she connects online with a charming, handsome, and successful man named Dean Jenkins. From the outside, there may be some red flags, but Jill doesn't care. He's the one. And just six months in, Jill finds out she's pregnant, and they make plans to spend the rest of their lives together.


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[Assistant] But the night after Halloween, Jill receives a shocking text that will change everything and what she reads threatens to take away her dreams of happiness, her career, and maybe even her freedom.


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[Assistant] Wandering Novel's new podcast, Stolen Hearts, tells the intricate love story of Jill and Dean, and how opposites really do attract.


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[Assistant] Follow Stolen Hearts on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey Prime members, you can binge the entire series ad free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.


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[Assistant] And this is when in 1801, this is when she was finally 18, so she was finally able to move into another part of life, which is married life, especially back then you were expected to enter into that life.


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[Assistant] You know, she liked her husband. They got along. Okay, that's a good start. But it definitely had a lot more to do with legacy political strategy. Money. But I think it was one of those things where


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[Assistant] Love and, and respect and adoration formed out of that. Okay. So it wasn't like it all went bad. You know, like he was just a shithead and they hated each other and that was it. They made do.


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[Assistant] She married Joseph Alston in 1801. Uhm, and again, like I said, they definitely turned into they more than tolerated each other.


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[Assistant] She's a badass. I'm like, I should be lucky. Yeah, like I'm lucky to have entered into this.


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[Assistant] Theodosia met Joseph Alston during the presidential campaign of 1800 actually. Uh, Burr was using Alston as kind of a middleman to convey information from the North to the Republicans in the South.


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[Assistant] Uh, and you know, like many men that came into Theodosia's presence, he was immediately very much enamored with how smart she was. She had a very, she was quiet, but she was like quietly confident. Like she had this air about her that like, I know how great I am, but like not annoying.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and she, and also I love this because he blatantly says that she, he was never put off by her lack of skill in the women, womanly arts.


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[Assistant] You know, no, once the election was finally, you know, over, Jefferson was president, Burr was his vice president, Alston proposed to Theodosia. But she said no.


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[Assistant] She says, I love this, this was in a, this is in a letter, she said, Aristotle judged a man too immature for marriage before age 36.


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[Assistant] He did a lot of convincing. He did the legwork. Yea, he traveled, so you know that. Traveling was not easy back then. So shortly after they got married, Theo and Joseph went on what was called a bridal tour.


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[Assistant] They traveled around with this entourage of servants into the more rural parts of the New York state, and they reached their destination, which was Niagara Falls.


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[Assistant] This trip was apparently kind of a celebration of the marriage. So it was almost like a honeymoon kind of thing. But it also gave Theodosia kind of a break from running the house in New York and like doing all the things. This was like a vacation. And back then, vacations were not a thing.


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[Assistant] You didn't go on vacation. Goodbye. Like you didn't-


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[Assistant] It was not common for people to be like, I'm just gonna go to Niagara Falls to look at it, cause it's pretty.


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[Assistant] Like it was like, if you were traveling, you were traveling for a very distinct purpose. For war. Because for war, to go declare battle on someone. But yea, she, she needed this like nice little rest period and she wrote a letter to her sister-in-law and she said, if you wish to have an idea of real sublimity, visit the Falls of Niagara. They are magnificent.


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[Assistant] I love that. And again, this is like, uh, it's pretty significant cause it's like one, Theodosia is now transitioning into adulthood. She's not a child anymore. And it's also the first time that anyone really went to Niagara Falls for recreational purposes.


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[Assistant] And this actually began that trend of let's go look at cool shit for no reason.


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[Assistant] Let's go look at shit. The falls of Niagara are fucking magnificent. That's what she wrote.


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[Assistant] But you know what? She's still in that life she grew up in. She's, she's an aristocrat, as you said. She's still, she's in South Carolina now. Uhm, it's all money, politics.


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[Assistant] In the spring of 1802, just a year into their marriage, Theodosia gave birth to a boy they named Aaron Burr Alston. Awww. Uh, she was so happy. She called him the crowning blessing of her life.


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[Assistant] Now unfortunately, this birth was also pretty traumatic.


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[Assistant] For both of them because like I said, birth was pretty traumatic back then.


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[Assistant] She ended up dealing with what is now recognized as a prolapsed uterus.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and at the time it just went untreated and unnoticed because they didn't know what it was.


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[Assistant] So the pain must have been outrageous and it was unrelenting daily to her.


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[Assistant] Yeah, she was just going with it. And she went to tons of physicians, she went to specialists, she was just unable to find any relief for this because they didn't know what that was.


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[Assistant] And after this and the pain that followed from the whole thing,


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[Assistant] And in the fall months actually to New York to visit Erin. It was just like with the baby. Like this was a whole thing. Erin visiting Erin. Yea. But unfortunately like she loved it, but she also was lonely there because she missed Joseph. Because like I said, they were starting to like each other.


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[Assistant] And in a letter in 1802 she wrote, I had rather been ill on Sullivan Island with you than separated from you. Even my amusement served to increase my unhappiness. For if anything affords me pleasure, the thought that were you here, you also would feel pleasure and thus redouble mine at once puts an end to my enjoyment.


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[Assistant] And like, I would be doubly feeling good if you were here, like that makes me sadder. It's like, woah.


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[Assistant] For several years of their marriage were very happy, like I said.


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[Assistant] Very happy, very blissful, there wasn't really a lot of trauma happening, like she was dealing with the pain, but she was going through it.


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[Assistant] That's a lot on a marriage. It's a lot. It's a lot. And then making things worse, there was a ton of infighting and like political rhetoric happening surrounding the end of her father's term as vice president, and it was becoming like inflammatory.


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[Assistant] And it, you know, it was dealing with Joseph Alston too, cause he was part of the whole thing. So that was putting pressure on things. It was like the internet before the internet, like putting a bunch of pressure on that. And there was a much publicized battle of words that you guys might recognize. It was between Aaron Burr,


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[Assistant] There was a lot of accusations being thrown around, some claims of impropriety. I won't get into it.


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[Assistant] And, shockingly, Burr challenged Hamilton to a duel.


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[Assistant] Is that Aaron Burr shot and killed Alexander Hamilton? Yeah. Uh, at this point, Theodosia was only 23 years old, by the way. She's gone through all of this at 23. Now her dad is on the actual run. Like he's, bye, gotta get out of here.


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[Assistant] He, first of all, like the whole thing is that Alexander Hamilton put his pistol in the sky. And then I think more people were on Hamilton's side than Burr's side. Yeah, so I think,


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[Assistant] One of those things I think, and I'm not an expert on duels, but I believe it's one of those like, you know, uhm,


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[Assistant] Like honor things, where it's like if you turn around and the guy's got the pistol in the sky, you shooting him would be pretty like low handed. Like it's like, you see him not shooting you, you should probably be like...


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[Assistant] Before I get emails that are like, you know that that's not like a historically like perfect thing. I know it's a Broadway show. I know this. I'm just making jokes. Uhm, but this is all real. And yeah, I think it's one of those things where like,


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[Assistant] You are supposed to have like your seconds at a duel, which they're supposed to talk to each other and try to be like, hey, maybe these two guys shouldn't just try to shoot each other. Like maybe we should just like talk through this.


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[Assistant] But some people are idiots and they don't like to negotiate. They like to just go to boom boom trigger finger and like fuck everything up. So yeaah.


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[Assistant] And that's what they say, like your seconds are supposed to come in and be like, we both know that this is stupid.


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[Assistant] He did not, exactly. So he did not run down to South Carolina and endanger his whole family. Cause that would have endangered them and Joseph. Um, instead he went out west. Sorry. I almost coughed. So my voice broke there. I didn't even catch it. I'm okay. I swallowed the cough. So I went west. He went out west and he hoped, you know, he could just


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[Assistant] She was, Theodosia Junior was just kind of wandering around this giant estate. You know, her husband was away all the time. She's right back to when her mother died. And it's like, and her dad's not around now. She's sick.


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[Assistant] It's a real parallel to like her mother's life. It is. Yeah. Yeah. And she was also dealing with her like really declining health and she's raising a two year old boy at the time. Like that's a lot. So by August of that year, her pain was unbearable.


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[Assistant] Um, she was at that point, she was certain she was going to die before the end of the summer. Like that's how bad it got. So she actually wrote a letter to Joseph and gave him instructions for what should happen.


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[Assistant] Should she pass away before the end of the summer? She said quote, after my death and before my burial.


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[Assistant] And she wrote basically, this is my will and testament.


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[Assistant] She made instructions for where her belongings should go, who should care for her son. She said to you, my beloved, I leave our child who was once a part of myself.


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[Assistant] You love him now, henceforth love him for me also. And oh, my husband, attend to this last prayer of a doting mother.


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[Assistant] But good news, she did not die. She was not sure. She did, she was dealing with the emotional and physical pain still, but she did not die. She didn't have to live out that will and testament just yet.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but Burr was arrested for treason and was taken to Richmond, Virginia to be tried.


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[Assistant] Yeaah. Uhm, even worse, many men were believing that because of Burr's position that he wouldn't or couldn't pay his debts. So they were now coming to Joseph Alston.


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[Assistant] Trying to get assurances that he was gonna pay. Joseph Alston wasn't able to provide those assurances, so a lot more shit was coming their way.


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[Assistant] Throughout this whole trial, Theodosia and Joseph relocated to a home in Virginia to be close to him actually during the trial. Uh, it was a smaller home that was good because it was kind of less for Theodosia to have to do and have to be responsible for.


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[Assistant] But she was dealing with the stress and anxiety of the entire trial and everything that was going on.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and in the end, the court did determine that the prosecution hadn't made a strong enough case to find Burr guilty of treason, so he was actually acquitted on those charges. Okay.


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[Assistant] But, so now he's free. He's free to move about the country, he's free to do whatever he needs to do, but...


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[Assistant] And it takes a lot for anybody to go over there at this time, so he's like, I think I'll be okay over there.


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[Assistant] But sure, Burr's released from trial, you know, released from the charges, but the fallout was, and he's over in Europe now, but the fallout was everywhere. Like they weren't getting away from this. Right. So while he was in Europe, he relied a lot on Theodosia and Joseph to give


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[Assistant] And now by 1809 all of the constant physical pain was starting to cause neurological and psychological symptoms. What was referred to as the most violent affections and it was hysteric fits quote unquote.


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[Assistant] And they would come and go, it wasn't constant, but like she was dealing with this. And aside from this, she was also dealing with the depression, her equilibrium was off, she had a violently stinging mouth sore, like sores in her mouth.


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[Assistant] She had exhaustion and the whole equilibrium thing was causing her to like have falls. Yeah. And one fall cause she got a spinal injury that kept her immobile for like weeks.


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[Assistant] So by 1812, Aaron Burr had been, you know, wandering around Europe, just kind of like going from one place to the next place, like running out of money, like going to the next place. And the stress on Theodosia was enormous.


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[Assistant] In 1812, he had finally had enough of that and he wrote to tell her, I'm traveling by boat to New York and I would love to see you and my grandson. Like I need to see you. But unfortunately.


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[Assistant] On June 30th, 1912, or 1812, excuse me, as Burr was making his way from Boston to New York by boat, uhm, 10 year old Aaron Burr Alston actually died from a summer fever or country fever. Oh man.


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[Assistant] Uhm, in 18th and 19th century South Carolina, malaria was a huge contributor to high mortality rates. The climate, the swampy conditions of that area, they're just a breeding ground for swarms of mosquitoes.


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[Assistant] Little Aaron had contacted this around May or early June, and during the month of June, he was basically in like a stuporous state. To make matters worse, it was the early 1900s of it all, so they used mercury and just made him rest to see if it would help.


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[Assistant] She was dealing with 10 years of unrelenting pain and suffering.


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[Assistant] And this is just the actual worst thing that could have happened. Like the one thing...


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[Assistant] In a letter she wrote on July 12th to Aaron Burr, she said, I've lost my boy, my child is gone forever. May heaven make you some amends for the noble grandson you have lost.


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[Assistant] Things she could look, any solace she had, was that she was gonna be able to see her dad. Cause now she was like, you're gonna be back in New York, I can go see you. She hadn't seen him in like four years, he was like exiled in Europe for that long. So in December of 1812, she made firm plans with him, I'm gonna come see you.


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[Assistant] And Alston's election in South Carolina, uh, uh, um, he was against the South Carolina governor on December 10th.


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[Assistant] But he couldn't because he was in the middle of this whole thing, so it just happened to be like a time when he couldn't come. So she was going to have to do it alone.


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[Assistant] Now by late December 1812, 1812, the war of 1812 had been going for like six months at this time.


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[Assistant] Any interstate travel at this time was pretty risky. This was not an easy decision to make. She had two options to go to New York. One, she could go by land in the Alston's carriage, which would have been a two week journey at the very least. Or she could go by sea, which would be way shorter.


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[Assistant] But it carried the added much higher risk of being captured by British soldiers or even possibly pirates.


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[Assistant] But still the idea of spending more than two weeks being thrown around a carriage, being driven by what, uh, driver who Theodosia referred to as a great drunkard. Oh no. Wasn't super appealing. So she chose the sea. I could see why. Yeah. She was like, I'm going to take to the sea.


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[Assistant] So by the winter of 1812, British warships had set up blockades in a lot of the major ports, including Charleston.


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[Assistant] And had been capturing American ships as prizes. On top of that shit, pirates and privateers were also very active off the coast of the Carolinas, which made things worse. Joseph Alston really didn't like the idea of her going into the sea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and it's like, he was strongly protesting this and they got into like months of arguments about this. Like he was really like, please do not do it, just get in the carriage. But finally, shoot, he was like,


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[Assistant] But there we go. She was going, but really he only agreed to this in the end. The only thing that made him agree to it was he was really hopeful that visiting her father was going to lift her spirits. And he thought that might translate into her physical health as well because they didn't know anything about this back then. So they're like, maybe if she feels better, she'll feel better.


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[Assistant] But because of her health, he was like, I'm not gonna just let you go.


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[Assistant] Like without any provisions here. So Burr actually helped him arrange to have his friend Dr. Timothy Green travel from Boston to South Carolina and then accompany Theo to New York.


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[Assistant] On a private schooner, the one named The Patriot.


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[Assistant] On December 30th, a day before they were leaving, Joseph Alston walked Theodosia and Dr. Green to the family's landing in Oaks Creek, where they both were ferried to the Patriot in Georgetown Harbor.


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[Assistant] It's carrying like a political daughter. And it's also carrying like kind of a pariah political's daughter. Like you know what I mean, there's a lot of layers here and it's called the Patriot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the, like you said, the wife of a political, you know, bigwig.


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[Assistant] So it's a lot. Now the Patriot itself was a 63 foot shallow draft schooner. Okay. Uhm, it was used as a pilot boat during the American Revolution before this. Oh shit. And it only needed like a small crew. I think it only needed like three or four people to sail it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, this was a private ship, but it was considered a privateering ship. So it had been authorized by the government to carry guns as a means of protection against pirates and British warships. But this one in particular only had three cannons and a civilian crew, so it was really not going to be


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In some trouble, a British warship? Yikes. Like not going to be great.


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[Assistant] But records indicate that the Patriots' cannons had actually been, weren't even going to be helpful anyways because they had been dismounted and stowed below deck.


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[Assistant] But Joseph Alston hadn't really chosen the Patriot because he wanted it to be this like warship that was gonna get her there. It was apparently very swift sailing, very smooth, it was like, had a very good record of being safe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he figured this is gonna get her there quick, in less than a week it was supposed to get her to New York. Oh wow. Because that was the whole thing.


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[Assistant] Was the carriage was going to be like over two weeks. Right. So the Patriot set sail out of Georgetown Harbor Harbor at 12 noon on December 31st, 1812.


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[Assistant] That was again the last time anyone saw Theodosia Burr-Alston, Dr. Timothy Green, The Patriot, or its crew. When Theodosia failed to show up to New York a week later, Burr and Alston were like a little alarmed, but they weren't freaking out yet.


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[Assistant] You know, there were several reasons delay could happen. So it wasn't super uncommon that this was going to happen. But then the second week came.


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[Assistant] And no word was heard from the ship or Theodosia and they began freaking out. They were now seeking answers.


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[Assistant] Um, apparently one of them, who was it? It was, I think it was Joseph, or no, it was, um, Aaron, excuse me. Aaron wrote to Theodosia in New York and wrote another mail and still no letter. All that I have left of heart is yours. All my prayer for your safety and wellbeing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, after three weeks, Alston was beginning to suspect the worst and he began casting blame actually towards Burr at this point. He said in a letter, he said, tomorrow will be three weeks since in obedience to your wishes, Theodosia left me.


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[Assistant] Cause again, he was not happy she was going in the first place. He's like, you did this. And he wrote, Gracious God, is my wife too taken from me? I do not know why I write, but I feel like, I feel that I am miserable. Awww. Cause he just lost his son too.


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[Assistant] And he loved his daughter. Now Joseph Alston was clearly obviously equally as fucked up by the realization that he was never going to see her again.


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[Assistant] You may well observe that you feel severed from the human race. She was the last tie that bounds us to the species, but the man who has been deemed worthy of the heart of Theodosia Burr and has felt what it is to be blessed with such a woman's love will never forget this elevation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They don't write like they used to. They don't. Mikey's tearing up in the corner.


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[Assistant] They couldn't really come up with one, so there were a lot of theories that were having to be kind of like, plunkered together. This is on, there's honestly very little information about what might have been loaded onto the ship before it left. Like they don't have a lot of records saying like, this is exactly what was on the ship.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And others have suggested that Theo carried with her the Burr family silverware, which she planned to return to her father.


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[Assistant] It was also said that the ship's captain, who was William Overstocks, he had painted over the name of the ship on the hull to avoid attracting any attention.


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[Assistant] Money. Or like things of value. Money. Money. And while these definitely make it like...


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[Assistant] These things were on the ship, so that's interesting. Now the most likely explanation for what happened is kind of simple, but really tragic.


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[Assistant] Uhm, it might have been caught in a storm after leaving port.


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[Assistant] Just to put it out there, there are over 10,000 shipwrecks in North America, uhm, and some of it is from battle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But a lot of it was just caused by inexperienced captains.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Be something that could sink a ship, especially a schooner.


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[Assistant] Now interestingly, on January 1st, 1813, the day after the ship set out,


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[Assistant] One weather event did come through, and it quote, blew up that night off Cape Hatteras.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, about, this is only about 400 or so miles north of Georgetown, so interesting, it is there. And it's believed that this could be the storm that maybe forced the Patriot off course, maybe it hit rocks and it sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic before anyone could get off it.


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[Assistant] Now this is pretty accepted by a lot of people, they're like, that makes a lot of sense. This was the one that also, in the beginning especially, was the one that was accepted by Aaron Burr and Joseph Alston when they didn't hear from her in months.


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[Assistant] Now also apparently general Thomas Pickney, who was a family friend of the Altons.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The Alstons met with an Admiral from the British blockade just off the coast of South Carolina.


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[Assistant] And this guy from the British blockade said he could confirm that the patriot was allowed safe passage through the blockade just hours before quote, a violent gale followed the same night. Oh, okay. But we're going to go back to that because there's a little mystery in that too. Yeah. So that sounds all very like, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So people figured it out. That's it. That's it. It was a storm.


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[Assistant] But then in 1998, archaeologist James L. Might, I think it's Meachie or Mitchie, I'm pretty sure, commissioned a study to uncover more evidence of what happened to the Patriot. And after a ton of digging, his team was able to find that there was no record of the Patriot having passed through that blockade.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So why would they have let it? Well, that did happen. There would be like granted safe passage.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They were able to verify that there was a violent storm that passed over South Carolina on the coast on January 1st, 1813. And according to Mitchie, quote, the gale was so severe that the warships furled and reefed most of their sail.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nevertheless, the ferocity of the storm stripped off top gallant yards and mass, snapped rigging, and tore out chain plate bolts from the hell. The hull, excuse me.


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[Assistant] So it's strange because they were not given safe passage, at least not recorded safe passage, so that's often shady. Because it's like, did you do something? And you're pretending that you let them through?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, more theories abound. The most prominent and dramatic theory that came out of the late 19th century, early 20th century, and came out of your mouth too, was that, and mine as well, was that she was seized by pirates. Yeah, that's what I feel. Um, but there, it gets even, we're saying it like that makes sense.


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[Assistant] To help direct the course of American history.


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[Assistant] I was like, ahh, you lost me. And what gets interesting is that several sailors throughout the 19th century said they had seen Theodosia among the pirates. And one pirate said that he, quote, claimed to have actually laid the plank that Theodosia then walked, all dressed in white, into the stormy sea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Isn't that chilling? Another theory out of 1873 says that the patriot was a victim of a trap laid by a pirate who went by Gibbs and who apparently confessed after being captured and sentenced to hang.