[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doesn't matter. Uh, this, this podcast is going to trail off quite a bit where it's just like, ah, anyway, doesn't, doesn't, none of this matters. Uh, so we'll majorly talk about that. Talk about like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Doing shows like that going bad, we're talking about like any bombing stuff that we've had, cause we get asked this comics a lot, like bombing. And I've talked about some of mine, I can never remember, so the thing with when you bomb,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like with hecklers with comedy. People always ask too, like, are you getting heckled? And you don't get heckled as much as people think. I think it got, uh, really...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I also think comic stealing material is something else that I don't love, that how much that's been blown out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Accused comics of stealing, like there's been a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's been a world that's been built up now that they, if anybody has a joke that sounds like someone else's joke, they're just like, this guy's stealing. It happens to me all the time when someone accuses me of stealing something. And no one realizes, you're like, yeah, man, everybody's going to talk about some of the same stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Majority, if someone gets caught stealing a joke, it's usually a nobody comic that's like doing someone's act, like somewhere on the road or something. Like that could be, and you know, that shouldn't be done, but like that happens, I'm sure, but no one even knows. I know Carlsman C was the biggest example of stealing stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I just don't, they're not stealing stuff. I mean, people are gonna talk about the same kind of things. And you can tell when you have a joke.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's like, you know, sometimes when you use a comic, you come up with a joke, and if it's very funny, quick, and then you're like, ah, this feels like someone could have talked about this. And you try to ask some other comics, like, has anybody ever talked about this? And then, you know, but some people are like, no, I don't think so. Then you just do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then sometimes that's the joke that ends up with someone's like, well, they did talk about it here or whatever, but I wouldn't, you know, I've had people tell me I've stole jokes. I've had people tell me that someone else has done a joke like mine, but I just think it's like everybody has a lot of, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Experiences that are the same, so comics are gonna end up talking about stuff that's the same. And it's, it's, you know, you just hear the different takes on it. It's almost like that's how it should be looked at. It's like, they're doing the same kind of idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which one do you like better? Like which one is presented, which joke idea is better? I think stealing jokes as a whole is just not, it's just not a thing. Like it's not, it's not a problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I wish, and I want everybody to know that because I don't, there doesn't need to be this search. Like I feel like people are trying to, especially now it's like this gotcha. Like they're trying to catch people stealing stuff and it's, it's just not, it's just not a, I don't think a problem enough in common.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That it needs to warrant, like, a sheriff. Comics are pretty good on policing that, and, you know, and that, and you do your, you do that, you come up with a joke, I'll call you, I'll call someone, and like, be like, have you heard this? And then, you know, and that's all you can really do, and then you just do the joke, and then see, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean that's, there's a lot of stuff, like I get to another thing I get on YouTube, people think I just do the same jokes on everything. But the problem too is like when you, well I do them different shows, so you know, coming up with a new material is, it's very hard. It's hard to come up with a new act.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then when you're, when you're first starting out until you start getting specials,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You were just putting everything kind of out on YouTube, like out just different shows.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, a lot of these clips have the same jokes on them and I'll be doing these jokes ever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So yeah, some of the live comments are like, this guy just did the same joke on everything. And you're like, well, they're different shows and I don't always think they're going to be put on YouTube. And then I especially don't think about it back then when you're almost just always throwing stuff up on YouTube because you're hoping what's the thing that's going to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like people are gonna grab, grab, go towards, gravitate towards. And, uh, so like then now it looks like I just have like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 10 jokes that, you know, like I only cycle through, but you're like, no, those are all different shows. And those are the jokes that I was doing at that time. So they're going to be put up. So when you see like a comic, when they're younger, a lot of their clips, I mean, they're only going to have so many great, like if something is ever being filmed, especially then.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're only gonna have so many jokes that are like good enough to be filmed. So you're gonna, those jokes are always gonna live there. And then the older you get into comedy and like where I'm at now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like I can't do that. So like I can't, I mean, if I could do a late night set, I'll do jokes that I'll have on my Netflix special. I'm not going to write a separate five minutes for that. A late night set to me is a showcase.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] of your special, it's, it's somewhere to be like, here's a little five minute segment from my special and then go watch the entire special. You're not going to write just its own separate kind of thing. So besides that, but now you have to be way more careful about


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What gets put out and what's getting filmed. But if I go, like I had something, uh, when I did...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A prairie home companion, which is the poster behind me. Like when I did that, I had that video.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything's gotta be saved for the special. So the special's the most important thing. So at that point, if I do anything, I'm just grabbing old stuff that I don't care if it gets like wasted. Like I'm not gonna put my new


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You just can't put your new thing. I gotta save that for the hour special. That's in the live shows. Those are the things that are the biggest things, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think it's as much anymore. I think it was. Uh, I definitely don't think people understand comedy or like what you do. It's definitely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's hard for them to see it, to like figure out what you do. I think now there's more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, cause now people will ask like, is he doing new stuff or is this, like, you know, when you see some comments, there's people that are definitely more aware.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then they ever were, I think, you know, I think for a long time it was that. Like they just think you're up there just like riffing and having a good time. Uh, but they don't realize how much you do the same joke. They don't, you know, comedy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I wish that comedy had that. I mean, there's definitely fans of people that do watch young comics. I mean, I know people that have watched y'all and like that have been to my shows or something to see and they, they like, they, they enjoy watching the process, but that, that group is much smaller than music. And I wish people would.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See, I mean, you know, when I first got into comedy, seeing like, Bill Burr.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and Bill Burr was, is a huge deal for me. Like he was, he was one of the first comics that I got to watch when he first started. It was, I remember him going to his first late night set and getting to see him rise up from there. And I watched him do that late night set.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I watched his HBO one night, I was at that taping and then I remember going to Caroline's where we could just go and he would be headlining and you could just sit anywhere because no one was there. There'd be 30 people watching Bill Burr and we would go sit and watch him. And then I remember going to Caroline's where we had to ask, it was sold out and overly packed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we would just wait in the lobby to see, and then like the manager there would be like, you can come stand in the corner and you can go stand in the corner and watch him. And then to, when he went to town hall and then like, so watching his whole rise to what he is now, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, was a gigantic, it was a huge, huge influence. I mean, like, but I remember when I first found him,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, like to the audience, like it's a go discover new comics and just go like, you know, go watch them the way you would eat food. Like if you're just like, I don't, that's not my cup of tea. Like you can find your thing and then go watch that person become who they are and realize like how much like art.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I don't want no comic ones to say they're artists, but you know, it's like, but the craft of it is unbelievable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we write jokes and we come up with these stories is, I mean to make it seem like we're just talking regularly, conversational.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, is, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to do and you gotta learn how to do it and you, and to see someone learn and figure their kind of voice out and you're always kind of doing that is just, I mean, I don't know. Comedy is, it's unbelievable. Like, I mean, like people don't realize like a placement of a word can ruin a whole joke and it can make a joke perfect. It can make a joke, not perfect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and that's, that's the, that's fun to see. It's fun, you know, and watching people, you know, when I would watch Burr, I remember his HBO one night stand taping. It's his HBO half hour. And I remember when he got off stage, I mean, the audience, cause I was in the crowd, they're losing their minds. They, and they can't, they almost can't believe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was, I remember just feeling that to be like, that's what you want man. Where, you know, when you go on stage and no one knows who you are, and you go murder super hard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the crowd's just like, what, what, you know, they just can't believe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That they're like, ah, and making someone laugh, you know, it's, it's hard to make someone laugh, to really laugh. It's very hard. That's like the same time I saw, I heard Brian Regan, you know, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] First, my dad bought a CD of his at a truck stop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then he told me he had to pull over the car. Like I remember just wanting to have people tell me they had to pull over. Like to be laughing that hard that you have to, you can't drive.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's unreal, like that's, that's a, uh, emotion that is tough to pull out of somebody. You know, to cry, I mean to cry, they're laughing and crying, like that's, that's, you know, to bring that much joy to someone, cause that, I think, like that's, that's why we,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but like with comedy, it's like if you can make people, like, just give them a break of their, like, you know, life is hard, man. Like, and people go through so much stuff. And if you can just give them a break.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From their not for an hour for them to not to think. When we did those shows at Zany's, uh, and it was just like a few weeks ago and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With the co- first night to have COVID. Like you could just feel the, the crowds were just like, I don't know, man, they've been through so much and everybody's been through so much to give them a break is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is, is something that like, uh, and that's what I want this podcast to be where it's like, it's not just sitting here, just talking about the problems, you know, you gotta have some kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Release, you gotta have somewhere to go where you can like just refresh and then you can go back to everyday life. And that's what like, and that's why comedy is like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I think it's so good. It's so fun to watch and watch, you see young comics and they come and to hear their take and their point of view on stuff and then see them rise. And that's what it was for me with Burr, like seeing him, you know, Burr was older than me, is older than me, uh, but seeing him come up,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And through that thing, I mean, that, that's, it changed my life and like how, like, and that was a big aspect of me moving to New York and why I was so glad to live in New York is I was able to see that. I was able to see people's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm on his network, all things comedy. I think I'm a little bit bigger than Bill Burr right now, but that's just me. Uh, no. Yeah. Well, yeah, to see, you know, it's hard to see it when you're, when you're in it in yourself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On Netflix and then doing the Tennessee Kid and then hopefully we'll be doing another one. It's like, you're starting to build this cycle of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you start doing these stand-up specials, being known as a stand-up is, is an accomplishment in my mind. Like being known that like no one...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You don't see me, then you're like, what is that? Oh, he does stand up too? Like there's none of that. I'm known as the stand up. And that was, that is something like Sebastian Mascaco, Gaffigan, Burr, Chappelle, Chris Rock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Seinfeld and Seinfeld could be known for a million other things. Chris Rock could be known for a million other things. Uh, but you know them as standups and like, so to be known as that, like I always loved like, you know, I mean, Jay Leno, Jay Leno is known as a standup and Jay Leno didn't,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He did stand up the whole time. I love that comics didn't get big and then just move on to something else. They kept doing the thing that got them there and they, and they love it. And those guys are true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Comics, they're the ones that kept doing it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Stopped doing it. Like he, you know, I don't know how much he was doing it to begin, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think he was like in it like crazy. I get Steve Martin stopping though. Like I understand he, he got so big that it was above what it can be. Like there was nowhere to go. You know, he got


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He got, he was doing stadiums, so he got so gigantic. I mean, he almost had, like, that guy I get, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, where can you go? You can't really go, you can only go down. So if you get to that level of things, where it was just the excitement for those people, like, and them coming, I don't think you can produce enough to keep up. So I understand them having to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I mean, Eddie Murphy is probably the phenom of comedy. I mean, for him to put those specials out raw and delirious and, uh, I mean, he's 20 or 21. I mean, people did like, you know, you're, it's a, it's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, comedy's like, you know, I'm 41, so like, I was saying in comedy you either make it at 20 or 40. Like, no one makes it at 30. No one's just in the middle and then becomes huge. You either come out super hot and you make it, or you have to wait till you're 40.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, it felt like a grown man. Like when you watched it, you know, I mean, think about talking to a 21 year old kid now. Like if I, I wouldn't listen to a 21 year old, I'd be like, what are you crazy? You're 21. Like, you know, you know, I think about what I knew at 21 was nothing. And for him to put both of those out and be that young,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's unreal, dude. That's like, that's a special, special...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And obvious, obviously he's been rewarded and shown how special he is, but that's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's something, man. That's like something crazy, dude. Like he's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, he, he's probably, he's, you know, I could see, you know, he, you know, he could be the Jordan of like, it's just, I think it was just too good. Like he inspired too many.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he affected, he affected the game too much. You know, like he, he, you know, I mean, Chris Rock, Chappelle, you know, I mean everybody, like he affected, you know, he affected what we did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, he's kept them not happening. I mean, he didn't, you know, I mean, there's always rumors that he's going to come back and do it. Uh, but he, he was, you know, I mean, Chappelle's that now, Chappelle's been, you know, I mean, Chappelle is the one that you could argue is the best. I mean, Rock, Chris Rock too, I mean, his first, his specials when they came out, they were so big.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're, uh, I mean, you can't give us one example of something somebody said. Oh, what they said about y'all's comedy? Yeah. I mean, people say they like your comedy. I've had people say that. They're like, they like, you know, I've had people say, people ask me who you are and stuff like that. They're like, who is that first guy?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we did, so I was talking about the, so we got off on a tangent there, uh, the bombing stuff. One show that happened, because this can tie into the other thing. I remember I did a show, uh, in Pittsfield, Massachusetts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my wife came, and so it was a big night. I was opening for, so Boston, uh, Boston, I think Boston produces the best stand up comedy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Legendary Boston comic, but they've had like Burr, Marin, Patrice, like all these people, Stephen Wright, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dennis Leary, like it's pretty crazy. And then like Joe List, a lot of guys that I'm, uh, Bobby Kelly from, like there's all these comics that are from Massachusetts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, Bert, I said Bert, like he's, and so it's pretty wild. And so we were doing a show in Pittsville, Massachusetts and I got paid to host and I was getting like $500 to host this show, which is crazy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's going to be this packed out room in Pittsfield. Everything was great. We stayed, it's in a hotel. My wife came. Uh, it was, the show went unbelievable. I got paid. Vandy beat Georgia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Drops out somewhere. We ask, no one turns it in. And then me and my wife get into a huge fight and the whole weekend was ruined. Uh, not fun at all. But I remember at the time, I would always tell my wife, you think if this $500 matters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I always try to think, well, hopefully someone that has it needed it more than me. And then, uh, I'm just trying to get out of this fight at that point. I'm coming up with anything, but it's, and then I was like, if we, if we can't get over this $500, like if this in our life,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, like if, I mean right now, like we can't, like we have one less microphone because we're like, well, we needed that $500, you know, we're short. We're always $500 short.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So anyway, that story, which brings, it was in Pittsville, Massachusetts. The reason I thought of this, we watched, uh, all three of us watched Unsolved Mysteries, started on Netflix.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so we watched one last night, all agreed to watch it about UFOs, which, uh, I thought was a very, like we all like UFOs and, you know, I mean, in, in, in this year, how crazy 2020 has been, uh, UFOs have come out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so they're, yeah, so I mean, that's the first real acknowledgement of that this stuff is happening. So we watched, uh, you said you watched, you love space. All right. Like space is your thing. You love outer space. Uh, I mean, that's a little vague, but yeah, I like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I do. Uh, which funny, we won't say, but there's a conspiracy theorist of like stuff that someone doesn't believe in space. That's a conspiracy, right? That they don't even believe outer space is real. Which is my favorite. That's like, I think it's above flat earth. It's not, there's just no outer space. If that's up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But where, so yea, I bet like, so there's no outer space though, like there's no...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're just right, they're in our atmosphere. Everything's in our atmosphere. It's just a big snow globe. I guess so. Yeah, that's right. It's like, yeah. And then there's nothing else around. Yeah. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I love it. I love the idea of someone not believing in outer space. I think it's so great. Just that they're like, well, you know, if you brought up space, you're like, would you ever go to space? And they're like, I don't think you can. And you're like, what's that? And then you just have to explain why. I think it's wonderful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I think it's tough. Uh, but I enjoy it. I definitely enjoy it. I'd rather talk to that guy than someone that does believe in space. I think that guy's way more fun to talk to someone that doesn't. Like that's...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know, something that's so insane that like, you know, like I, I love hearing their side of things. It's wonderful. Like it's amazing. I think they should teach that in the schools. They should tell the kids, like they should be like, we do believe in space, but just a heads up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As you get in the real world, you might run across a guy that tells you there is no outer space.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there you go. Just don't, just letting you know. And then they're like, the kids can digest it how they want to digest it. Uh, so we watched Unsolved Missions last night. It was about a town. It's, if you haven't seen it, it's the only UFO episode on new Unsolved Missions on Netflix. And, uh, so we watched that and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These people had a big sighting of a UFO, a UFO that went to Pittsburgh, Massachusetts, and they went a bunch of areas around there, and I mean had a real go at these people in this town. I mean.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it wasn't like they flew over. I mean, these people- Are you talking about the UFO header rule, GO? Oh yeaah. The UFO, I mean, it drove around town and did some stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, it wasn't, you know, it's not a typical, like I saw. What was that? Yeah. Yeah. Just, well, that was quick. You think that was UFO? Like, you know, and then like that discussion, it was, I'm this UFO came in to do some work and it, it got it done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, one was the lady that kind of starts at her and her son, like just didn't talk about it forever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They just were too scared, I guess, to say it. You gotta think this is 1969. So this is, you know, like, obviously, there's no internet, there's nothing that you could ever look up. So like, when stuff happened like this...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, all you had was the newspapers the next day or the news and there was no breaking. There was nothing like coming. You could just cut on the TV and like be like, Oh, let's see. Did anybody else spot this? It was, you were going to have to go out on a limb.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And be like, Hey man, did you, I mean, it's a tough conversation. Cause you can't, I bet you can't imagine that you're seeing that. And so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cause it's like in the public discussion. Which probably started it, the whole go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think that there's aliens that don't believe that they've been to Earth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One, these one, one people they talked to in the car, I thought was interesting was, they said, cause they were like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A light came over them and it was like kids in the back. And then, uh, you know, they're like, it feels like it's 15 minutes, but it could be three hours. And so, uh, they, they said, the only way we know something happened was the mom and the grandmother switched seats. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, so the, the daughter's driving, and her mom, the grandmother's not driving, said she never drove. And then when they wake up, they're, now the grandmother's driving, and so they switch. Which would have been super funny if like, the baby was behind me. That would have been unbelievable. Like, you're like, the baby, and then the person has to go,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the way, the baby never drove. We never let the baby drive, but the baby was behind the wheel. Uh, but I was thinking like, do you think, so the alien messed up. Yeah, that's what I thought. And so like, does he get in trouble? Like, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No sense of urgency. The alien didn't have a sense of urgency to get, or maybe too much sense of urgency.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it was just, you know, aliens have bad days too. It's not like they're, they have to have bad days.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They, and we interviewed the wrong one, like we don't know, we're like, alright, uh, Steve, so this UFO, did it come, and he's like, what the, uh, it's, and he friended it, did y'all message or anything?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. Well, I mean, like they, the fact that the one lady was like, they would get followed home. She had a move. Yeah. That was his mom. Yeah. Like it's crazy to be like that people would get that mad. Like they were just like mad at him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Knoxville's open to it. Yeah. Uh, yeah, it's crazy. I was, it made me think too, do you have, like, I mean, we gotta be, how long, what are we at? Like an hour and over an hour?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Has got to be, he walked around like this for, you know, 50 years. And, uh, you know, being like, I could, I mean, I saw, I got addicted to UFO, like, there's got to be a documentary. Like, do you have anything that's like nothing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a 30 minute, like, full series. Episode 1. Dad's a principal. How'd that go? Not bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and just really get into some of these stories, uh, about him being a principal. Uh, alright, uh, I mean that's roughly it. We did a, this is a long one. And these are the ones that are going to be out. So next week we will have some, uh, feedback


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] See if, you know, maybe this shouldn't be a podcast, which is completely fine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, you know, I hope everybody, you know, I don't know, checks it out. If you run, we're going to have, uh, Bates is going to be on the social media, the Nate land podcast. If you have any, uh, you know, if you want any comments or any of that stuff, questions, maybe we start answering some questions that people have. I am.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you're going to be, uh, running that. Uh, you're the one on social media. If you can log in to the thing. Uh, so yeah, go do that. Any questions? Any stuff? And, uh, you know, this is all work in progress. It's progress. So if it's not good, don't come yelling at us now. Uh, you know.


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[Assistant] Who knows? So, uh, alright. Anything else you want to say? You're good? No. Then you want to get out? Thanks for, uh, listening and, uh, we will see you, uh, next week.


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[Assistant] But I don't understand if you want pockets, so why not just wear the shorts that have pockets?


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[Assistant] Even actors that look like a little dopey, they're all in great shape.


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[Assistant] I don't think we were saying that your brand of cigarettes wasn't meaningful to you, just that.


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[Assistant] All of their favorite brand of cigarettes is the most popular brand.


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[Assistant] Really? I mean, people started to, airlines started to phase it out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. Uhm, but it didn't become a law until the late, I have no idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of those planes are, you know, it's the no smoking, it's a light.


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[Assistant] Because they could turn it on and turn it off when the planes were made.


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[Assistant] I would pull an all-nighter like once a week for years for no reason. My sleep schedule's crazy, but I would go to bed two or three most nights. Yeah, that's what I'd do.


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[Assistant] The trunk was, you could tell that they're in the trunk too.


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[Assistant] Regis just died. Shout out to Regis. He's a big Notre Dame guy. Anyway.


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[Assistant] Okay, so Nate can say we for Vandy. Because he lives in Nashville.


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[Assistant] Well, I feel better. In college sports, there's, there's something other than the team that you can align yourself with, right? There's a, there's an institution that the team is a part of.


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[Assistant] It's like an NFL team, it's just the team. I don't feel a part of the Tennessee Titans.


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[Assistant] I don't know, I would never say, I would never say, like, I grew up a big Alabama fan, I don't know if I ever said we or us, you know, but I would be more likely to say that about Alabama than the Falcons.


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[Assistant] It was because they put a Scam Newton jersey on a statue of Paul Bear Bryant. So it was retaliation. He had to let him know right away, like, I didn't just let this sit, like I acted immediately.


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[Assistant] Well as two Predators fans, did that annoy you when all the, when the Predators were good all of a sudden, the town seemed to embrace them?


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[Assistant] Everyone around you sitting down, you're up screaming. You're up screaming.


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[Assistant] I was about to say, I think just wearing a Jersey in general, I'm not, I don't like it. Yeah. It's weird to me. Yeah. When you really think about your sports is entertainment and you're dressing up like.


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[Assistant] Guys that are younger, you're dressing up like guys that are younger than you to watch them and, you know.


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[Assistant] We did overlap a couple of years. Yeah. He was, uh, his, he was a year older than me. So his, my junior year was his senior year.


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[Assistant] Guys wear those. If you're at the game where Barry Bonds is gonna hit his 71st home run, you can bring a glove, I feel like, but if it's, you know, a noon game on a Wednesday with the Padres versus the, you know, the Braves, don't bring a glove.


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[Assistant] If the kid, I mean if you, if you went and caught it and got it, like you earned it.


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[Assistant] There's a buddy of mine, a comic from Chicago, Alex Drakovich, he has this great bit about, you're led to believe that it means more to the kid, but it means so much more to the adult. Because the kid's life is like amazing.


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[Assistant] Yeah. You know, the adult has some real hardships. Like Brian still has that ball. Yeah. You know, the kid that would have, the kid would have, I mean, he wouldn't still have that ball. No way. You know? He'd probably lose it that night. Exactly. Exactly. It means so much more to the adult because the adult has real things going on.


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[Assistant] I say theater. Theater. Theater. I puttin' it R, yea.


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[Assistant] But the cardinals wanted to put in their, yeah, put in their museum.


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[Assistant] He was one of my favorite sports moments of all time at the All-Star game when he injured the catcher because he was...


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[Assistant] Yeah, cause he just trucked him cause he was at the base. Everyone's like, this is the All-Star game, chill out. He just didn't have another gear.


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[Assistant] Yeah, the current reigning champion got a Magnus Carlsen. He's now considered to be...


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[Assistant] Uhm, but yeaah, it's still going. I mean, people- Is he from, where is he from? He's, uh, Norwegian, I think, from Norway.


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[Assistant] Yeah. My dad played competitive chess for a long time, so we were real into it.


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[Assistant] I was never good, I never had the patience for it. Yeaah. You know, some of these Bobby Fischer, I mean it was hours between moves. Just staring at the board. But they would go down. I could not do that.


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[Assistant] Some people, some of these, these freak prodigies, they, they don't even need to see the board. They can just close their eyes and visualize all these different boards at once and play the games. I mean, it's insane.


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[Assistant] They'll be like, move the pawn up to, you know, e5. Or wherever. What's e5?


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[Assistant] I mean, it's cra- dude, when you get to like, the level that those guys are playing at, it's, it's like a different, it's a different world. You know?


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[Assistant] And you gotta think these guys are playing thousands and thousands of games a week. They're just constantly playing. It's like, it's, you know.


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[Assistant] Yeah, if you look into some of the Bobby Fischer story when he played Boris Spassky from the Soviet Union in 1972,


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[Assistant] That, uh, I mean, that's like one of the most dom- like if you- so dominating. Cause a lot of his losses were like-


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[Assistant] He would forfeit the game because the lighting was bad and he was a crazy person. So he'd be like, I don't like the lighting in here. I'll forfeit this game. Or I want the cameras out. I'll forfeit this game. And then he just dominated the guy.


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[Assistant] So it's best of 24 games. So uhm, first game Bobby Fisher lost, second game he forfeited cause he didn't want the cameras there. And then like third game, he wanted to go play privately so where no one could see it. He made all these crazy demands and then he came back and just started dominating.


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[Assistant] Win, win, win. Typically, it's like...


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[Assistant] Chess at a super high level like that, it's almost always a draw. You almost always, you know.


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[Assistant] Yes, exactly. And then if you, if you win like two games, that's like, you're gonna win.


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[Assistant] And he won, I mean, he just dominated the game. Who was the best in the world at the time.


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[Assistant] So to be a hustler, he would have to pretend to be bad first and then come in and...


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[Assistant] Beat everybody? I guess so. You can't do that in the same town for a long time.


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[Assistant] What do you mean? A difference in, you know. Yeah, here we go. Color of the ball.


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[Assistant] I'm trying to think about how to phrase this. Do men bowl better than women? In the way that they golf better and things like that?


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[Assistant] Well, like do, do like your grandmother. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Would she bowl with men? Or was it?


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[Assistant] Because the difference in how men and women golf, obviously men can drive the ball farther. But men also putt better than women, and nobody's quite sure why.


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[Assistant] How much of a language barrier is it with this guy?


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[Assistant] That's a good question though. You know, I have no interest in knowing Michael Jordan on a personal level.


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[Assistant] I don't know him, no. He's a Fortnite player.


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[Assistant] I mean, esports, I mean, it's bigger than all of these other sports we're talking about, which is crazy to think about, but. It's bigger than basketball.


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[Assistant] I mean, more people watch the League of Legends championship, which is a video game, than watch the Super Bowl.


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[Assistant] No, it's a, it's a, League of Legends is a real time strategy video game. It's not like a first person shooter. What do you mean look up? League of Legends, I don't know. The views, ratings. Yeah, League of Legends views for the championship. Yeah, versus Superbowl, yeah.


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[Assistant] That kind of stuff fascinates me when it's this huge world just kind of going on underneath us and you really don't know about it.


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[Assistant] But it's like you want to watch the best people in the world. It's the same concept with traditional sports. Like you play basketball as a kid, but you want to watch Michael Jordan play. You want to watch the best people play.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some people, I feel that way watching hockey sometimes. You know, if you're unfamiliar with it and you don't know what's going on, you're like, what is going on right now?


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[Assistant] Remember when Michael Phelps in the Olympics? That was like a every night, let's tune in and see if he can, you know.


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[Assistant] I feel like baseball in general, people just, the records are more exciting. People keep track of them more.


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[Assistant] Have you heard the conspiracy theory about Kyle Ripkins?


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[Assistant] You know, so Cal Ripken, he holds the record for most consecutive starts in baseball. And it was, like you said, it was a huge deal when it was happening.


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[Assistant] And here's the conspiracy theories that there's one day where Cal Ripken was late to a game.


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[Assistant] And the Orioles, in order to keep the streak going, because it was so lucrative to them, it was such a compelling story, they faked a power outage at the stadium.


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[Assistant] So that the game would get postponed so that Calriccan could continue.


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[Assistant] Yeah, continue the streak. Now the legend is that he...


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[Assistant] He says I was at the game in the dugout, and there's one sports writer from Baltimore who corroborates that, but it's like I have no trouble believing that


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[Assistant] The Orioles would do something that drastic to keep that record alive.


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[Assistant] So Kevin Costner was actually filming a movie in Montana, I think the day that this game took place. So people that are really into this theory think he flew out to Baltimore because he knew that Cal Ripken would be. And I think Cal Ripken and Kevin Costner are like best friends.


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[Assistant] It's like striking out a kickball.


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[Assistant] Yeah, they filmed a Taylor Swift music video at my high school when I was attending there. And there I am storming the field.


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[Assistant] After, uh, the main character catches the game-winning touchdown. It was a fun memory. That's the video. Taylor Swift was accepting the award for that video when Kanye West interrupted her on stage.


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[Assistant] We don't care about anything else. Yeaah.


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[Assistant] I played defensive end, you know, at when you're six and seven years old, like nobody passes. Cause your hands aren't even big enough to throw a football at that age.


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[Assistant] Yeah. So you might have talked about this on the news that night. This was a pretty big moment. Uhm, you know, they had one kid, you might want to mute it just because the music could be caught.


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[Assistant] This is one of the few sports moments in my life where I remember exactly what was going through my mind. They had one kid on their team that could throw the ball.


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[Assistant] Just one kid, I remember he had weird sleeves, uhm, and they, earlier in the game he threw a touchdown pass. They brought that kid in at the end and I thought,


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[Assistant] And that's the computer. And that is life. Save it for the outtakes. Oh, I said that in my Send It to Darrell voice and I'm wearing that sweatshirt. You did!


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[Assistant] Hey, look at that. So hey, what's going on? We just changed the lighting in this room because we got little fancy light bulbs on Mikey's recommendation. And that was a great recommendation that he had.


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[Assistant] Yeaah, they're these cool light bulbs, and you can change them to different moods. Yeaah, what do we pick? Right now, we're in peaceful.


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[Assistant] Not like an enema, but like a, like a spiritual enema. Yeah, there you go. A spiritual enema occurred in this room and we feel good. Yeah, yeah. How do you feel today, listener?


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[Assistant] Couldn't have said it better myself. Just trying to get to lunch, really. Yeah, and we did that. And we did that. And some chicken fingers. We did, we had chicken fingers, so we're okay. Quick little side note. What's up? Just before we start. Okay. Uhm, Takis.


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[Assistant] Controversial. What the fuck is up with those? Uh, I know weird, out of the blue, but it's not if you were in my head. Or in the room. Or in the room.


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[Assistant] So today I said, I said to Mikey and Ash, I said, I want takis. And they said, order takis on DoorDash. Why leave the house? We live in the 21st century. You can have whatever you want. Go get you some takis. So I did. I ordered one and I said, Ooh, this is yummy. It's, it's


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[Assistant] Too spicy. Too spicy. I liked the spice, but I was like, wow, this is extraordinarily artificial. And I like Taco Bell, so that's saying something. Yeah, that's the most artificial. But I was like, okay, like this is fine. Within 10 minutes, I felt like I was going to throw up.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I've never met, I've never met that boundary before and I just met it with Takis. Do you remember when I met it with the Captain Crunch Slurpee? Yes, we all know when you met it there. That was crazy. That was such a different time in my life.


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[Assistant] Yep. But yea, it's a weird moment when you figure out like, oh, I can't just eat anything. Growing up is weird. It's horrible. And again, weird because I've never, I love spice and I still like, it just made me feel yucky for a little while. So I was like, oh, maybe that was just a little too much. And that's the thing. It wasn't even like you ate them like too fast or anything like that. Like she just had a few.


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[Assistant] But, me and talkies, we're not- That was Alena's talkie journey. That was my talkie journey, and I just wanted to, you know, I just wanted to share that with you. Now, you can't do the thing that they do on TikTok, remember we were talking about it the other day? With the pickles?


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[Assistant] Uh, but you know what? We're not here to talk about that. Nope. But you know, we have to, we had to get our, you guys are like who we talk to. So we had to like get all that out real quick. No one else cares about my talkie journey. Yeah. Our two minute like, hey, what's up, corner. Yeah. Listener. Listener. Dear listener.


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[Assistant] So we are in a part two situation right now. Yes. And I left you guys on a little bit of like a excuse me what?


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[Assistant] Yeah, I was pissed at you. Yeah, and it was mostly because like, this whole next part of this is just so infuriating at times, and you can just see how ridiculous and how negligent a lot of this was. Yeah. Uhm, so when we left you,


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[Assistant] We were, uhm, talking about Detective Eddie Bolger there.


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[Assistant] He, apparently photos were found in George Whitmore's coat pockets. They were of a woman. He said he found those in the trash and that he was just using them to like, kind of like, hype himself up to his friends and be like, this is my girlfriend. Yeaah. You know? He's a young kid. Yeaah. Like, he's a young, like, you know, he's like, he's a teen.


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[Assistant] And like, I have a feeling he has nothing to do with this. That's adorable. In a weird way, that's adorable. Yeah, he's just trying to be like, this is my girlfriend. And Detective Bolger there decided to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's where I left you, which was like, oh no, what's gonna happen? That really is where you quite- Now, detectives interrogated, you're like, you quite literally ruined my life. Pretty much. So detectives interrogated George Whitmore for 26 straight hours. Jesus. 26 straight hours.


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[Assistant] And after which he not only confessed to the assault of Elba Barrero.


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[Assistant] But also to the murders of Janice Wiley and Emily Hoffert. Yea, after 26 hours of straight prodding, I might confess to a lot of shit that I didn't do. I think a lot of people would. Yup. He also confessed to the murder of Minnie Edmonds, who we talked about, that was killed a week before Alba Barrero was attacked. Right. At no time was he informed of his rights.


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[Assistant] Only the killer would have information about or someone that was at the scene.


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[Assistant] Including descriptions of the broken bottle during the attack and the knives used to kill both women, the fact that the knives broke, like all those little details that they hadn't released to the public yet. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] According to the Whitmore statement, he had entered the apartment building unseen, so he said he somehow got into that apartment building and no one saw him. Okay. Uhm, and had been on his way to the roof when inexplicably,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He just left the stairway and entered the corridor.


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[Assistant] But it wasn't. Does everyone remember part one? Uh huh. That door was locked. It was locked when Pat got home. Right. That door was not unlocked. And they found no evidence that it was unlocked.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In fact, that was what was fucking them up about, like, obviously, aside from the obvious brutality, that's what was fucking them up about this crime scene, is they were like, how did someone get in? There's no way somebody got in, there's this open window, but we're on the third floor and there's no fire escape.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But now he's saying in his confession that the door was unlocked.


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[Assistant] It reminds me a lot of the Jesse Miskelly thing. I was thinking about that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Under intense pressure to solve the Wiley-Hofford murders at this point.


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[Assistant] But they had not made even a single step of progress at this point. Despite the, you know, a lot of efforts, they were canvassing the whole place and they had unrestrained resources. Like the entire Manhattan Police Department was on this. And because of this, reports of Whitmore's arrest came as a huge relief.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not only to the residents of New York, but also to the investigators and politicians who were feeling that intense pressure.


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[Assistant] So this is not a good mix of things, because everybody's like, great, we got someone, don't care if it's the right person.


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[Assistant] Within days of his arrest, however, several people began to doubt the credibility of the confession. At his arraignment for the murder of Minnie Edmonds, he actually recanted his confession.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With his lawyer telling the judge that George had been coerced into signing the document by Brooklyn Detectives and was beaten into it. Oh no. During that interrogation. Like he was very much not doing that under his own volition. And you know if Detective Bulger, if he was there, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That guy was definitely beaten. Yep. That's so sad. That like hurts my heart. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And George even like requested to take a lie detector to prove that he was telling the truth. I mean, come on. Like, he's not going to, obviously there are cases where someone's the killer and they're like, yeah, I'll take a lie detector test because they're just so confident.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This guy is younger, his IQ is very low, and he is like not understanding what's going on. No one's even, and the other thing is like he's not understanding because like he's dealing with that whole thing, but also no one's explaining things to him. Like no one's even trying to make him understand what's going on.


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[Assistant] So it's like, he's not gonna yell, I'm gonna take a lie detector test just to be like, I can take a lie detector test and I can fool it, you know? Like he's doing that cause he's like, I'm innocent and that'll prove it. Right. And he's a teenager? He's 19. 19 years old. Oh my god.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Despite his continued claims of innocence, Deputy Police Commissioner Walter Arm told reporters,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This man came up with details that could have only been known by, could have been known by no one but the police and the man who committed the crime. He had information that was never released publicly. And like again, we said,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The person who commended the crime and the detectives. Brooklyn District Attorney Edward Silver made similar remarks to the press. He said, I would not proceed as speedily if I did not have more than a confession.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What else do you have? Proceed speedily to tell us what else you have. Now for some of the investigators leading the team in Manhattan, it was really that extent of the details in the confession that were actually suspicious to them as well. In fact, it was as though the confession was a little too good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Little too detailed. It didn't just contain information never released to the public. It contained details about the crime scene. So minute.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But like you said, he's not going to notice these little details that a crime scene technician would. Exactly. Then there was the photographs that were found in George Whitmore's possession at the time of his arrest, which Detective Bolger claimed were of Janice Wiley.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When he was shown the photographs, he repeated what he said. He said


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's, I don't know who that is. I found them in the trash. I don't, I honestly don't know who that girl is. If it's Janice Wiley, I didn't know that. I just found them. Which of course they were like, yeah, yeah, like, likely story.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He knows his daughter. He's looking at the woman's face. He's like, that's not my kid. Like, I think he would know. Yeah. And again, for this man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's probably hoping they're catching the guy. Of course. Who did this to his daughter, so he's gonna hope that this is the guy, so he's not gonna, if anything, he's gonna kind of not hope, it's like hard to word it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's not gonna want this to not be the end of this, the closure that they want, you know what I mean? He doesn't want false closure. Yeaah, so for him to say that's not her, that's not her. Like he's gonna want this closed, and if it's not the guy, he wants the right guy. Like, he wants the right guy off the streets that did this. Yeaah, definitely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Finally, there was also George Whitmore's alibi. And this one's, this one blows my mind. He claimed he was at work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Nearly all of George's coworkers confirmed that he was at the restaurant at that time, and they distinctly remembered this. And they said they remember this because we were all watching together a televised speech given by Dr. Martin Luther King.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the march on Washington when Whitmore was supposedly in Manhattan killing Janice and Emily.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that whole, that held no ground whatsoever, like, they were just like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What? All his coworkers were like, he was there with us. He was watching it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, it makes you feel like so shitty that there wasn't like cameras and shit. I know, cause you're like, oh, I just want them to be like, see, here he is, like washing dishes right there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now in October, Whitmore's attorney successfully petitioned the court for his client to at least be evaluated by a psychiatrist, at the very least.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the eighth grade, I believe it was and had an IQ that was well below average.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He didn't even know what was, like, he couldn't understand the complete...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Heaviness and gravity of everything that was happening. And he couldn't understand how he was being fucked with. Yea, he's like, I was at work. These pictures are of a different girl. I found them in the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A whole restaurant of coworkers say that you were there. All of that defense behind you, and they can still railroad you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is so scary. And despite that and all the questions surrounding the confession and the supposed evidence against him, the district attorney in Brooklyn moved forward in the case against George for the assault of Elba Barrero. That's shocking. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In court, Barrero told the jury her assailant caught up with her on the sidewalk and grabbed her from behind. In November 1964, George Whitmore went on trial in Brooklyn Supreme Court for the attempted sexual assault of Elba Barrero. In court, Barrero told the jury that whoever attacked her had caught up with her on the sidewalk and had actually grabbed her from behind.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, Barrero then claimed that she and her attacker, quote, walked face to face for two blocks to 192 Bristol Street, where the assailant took her down a flight of stairs to the basement, pressed her against a wall, and briefly removed his hand from her mouth. This is when she started screaming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Following her testimony, Elba Barrero again identified George Whitmore as the person who attacked her that day. So wait, she said they walked face to face? Yea. I don't even know how to picture that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] However, on redirect, she told the, uh, assistant district attorney that she had been entirely unaware of the reward when she went before the grand jury.


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[Assistant] Okay, so that's a little flip floppy. Whatever her, whatever the like, you know, intention here is.


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[Assistant] It's just not coming off clear what's happening here. You're not coming off clear in what is going on here. Not at all.


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[Assistant] And after a week of testimony, the all-white, all-male jury deliberated for nine hours. So uhm, not a jury of his peers whatsoever. Nope.


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[Assistant] And they said, quote, unless psychiatrists find him to be a perpetual sexual menace to the community, in that case, he can be imprisoned for life. Oh my god. Yeah.


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[Assistant] However, Judge, uh, David Malbin elected to withhold sentencing in the case pending the outcome of the cases against Whitmore for the Wiley-Hoffort murders and the murder of Minnie Edmonds. Okay.


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[Assistant] Now, while they waited for the judge's decision, Jerome Leftow had petitioned the court for a new trial after receiving a sworn affidavit from one of the jurors.


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[Assistant] Claiming that quote, another member of the panel had made invidious remarks to the jury room about black people.


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[Assistant] The affidavit also noted that during the trial for the attack on Barrero, jurors were made aware of the additional charges against George Whitmore for the three murders.


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[Assistant] That is completely not okay. That's the thing, I'm like, how many conflicts of interest are we at now? Like 47? And Leftow obviously argued that this could have further biased the jury against their client. This is all illegal. They've biased everyone against him from the start.


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[Assistant] Putting him in an interrogation room and telling him that's the suspect and then having Alba Barrero identify him, you've already biased her again that she thinks he's a criminal.


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[Assistant] And both the prosecution and the judge were wholly resistant to the claims. Didn't want to hear it.


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[Assistant] With Judge Malvin's telling reporters, quote, I'm not going to make searching inquiry. We want to protect the sanctity of the jury as to what happens in the jury room during deliberations. We want to protect this racist ass jury is basically what that man just said. Yeah, I want to let them be racist if they want to be racist. I don't like, no, I'm not doing this. Wow. Cool.


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[Assistant] So they were well aware and all assumed he was guilty and were like kinda giddy about it. Like can't wait to watch that. That's gross.


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[Assistant] While the prosecution and the majority of law enforcement were honestly committed to believing Whitmore's confession and guilt were genuine, which is really upsetting, there were many who had been skeptical of the case from the start.


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[Assistant] There were a lot of investigators that were like,


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[Assistant] I don't buy this, like I think this is fucked up and dirty, which is at least good. That's good. Good, I guess. Now, just two months after his conviction for the attack on Elba Barrero, a source within the Manhattan District Attorney's Office told reporters that the case against Whitmore for the murder of Janice and Emily was quote, shot full of holes.


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[Assistant] So he told the reporter like, this is bullshit. Wow. Not happening.


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[Assistant] Now officially the DA's office refused to comment on the state of the case against Whitmore, but many in the press felt that there was a strong possibility that the case was going to be dropped against him. That's how bad it was. I hope so.


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[Assistant] Now the district attorney wasn't the only one skeptical about the potential for a trial against Whitmore. George's own lawyers were feeling pretty confident that the charges were going to be dropped and they were more than happy to fill in the reasons why. Like they were like, fuck this.


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[Assistant] It is instead a picture of a girl named Arlene Franco who lives in Wildwood, New Jersey. Oh, they found her and that's where he works. Yup, that's where he works, where Whitmore's father runs a junkyard.


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[Assistant] Whitmore's lawyers went on to emphasize the number of other discrepancies in the case against George, including that several people placed him in New Jersey at the time of the murders, and that he had an intelligence quotient of 60.


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[Assistant] And could not possibly have comprehended the language in the confession that he supposedly made.


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[Assistant] Wow. There was no way that he could understand all of that language. So it's just point after point after point after point of why he's not guilty. Oh, and that button?


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[Assistant] That was taken that Elba Barrero had ripped from her attacker's coat? Yeah.


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[Assistant] The FBI gave a report that stated the button did not match Whitmore's coat.


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[Assistant] So what are we even fucking doing here? So they introduced that button in that trial, and they used it kind of as like, here it is, like a smoking button. Didn't even match. But they said it did? Yea, they were like, this is from his coat. What the fuck, how are you even able to get away with that?


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[Assistant] Well, just two months later, Judge David Malbin, who didn't want to hear about the racist jury, wanted to let them be racist if they wanted to. Did he also not want to hear all the evidence as to why this black man didn't commit this crime? Yea, he was like, no, I don't want to hear it. He vacated Whitmore's conviction in the Barrero trial after it was determined that the jury had been racially biased.


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[Assistant] Given the questionable nature of the confession and the evidence against him in the other case,


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[Assistant] We would all assume at this point that the charges are going to be dropped.


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[Assistant] Like, looking at everything I've just told you, logical brains would be like, absolutely. But based on these fuckers, I'm like, nah. In April, the district attorney in the Edmonds murder case proceeded as though nothing had changed. I really hope that he ended up suing the district attorney.


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[Assistant] But the prosecutor vowed to try Whitmore again. What? In the meantime- Wait, I'm actually shocked that they deadlocked. Yeah, right?


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[Assistant] In the mean, because I think they had nothing. I think that was literally, they probably deadlocked based purely on like, some of them were probably racist.


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[Assistant] They didn't have anything in that case, like that was just like, uh, what evidence do you have? They have that confession, that's about it. Right, right. And it's a shitty confession.


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[Assistant] In the meantime, the District Attorney in Manhattan decided not to pursue the case against Whitmore for the murders of Janice and Emily.


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[Assistant] Why not? Just like, nah. I decided I can sleep at night these days. Different judge?


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[Assistant] Uh, no that, well that was the same judge that they were, they were talking about. That's why it was, um, overturned. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Now, the same year, it was alleged that Whitmore was actually under the influence of Truth Serum, which he, when he was evaluated at Bellevue Hospital that, like before this all started. Okay. Finally, that came out.


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[Assistant] That's kinda shaky, right? That's kinda shaky, but he was under the influence of that. And during that time, he kept insisting he was innocent.


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[Assistant] Tell us that you did it. And he was like, no, I'm innocent. And his confession, he kept saying the confession was coerced, I was beaten into saying this.


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[Assistant] And because of this, there was an investigation requested into this. Cause now they're like, wait a second. Did you beat him into this? No, days after this was revealed, New York governor Nelson Rockefeller refused the request for an investigation.


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[Assistant] He said he, quote, had no jurisdiction over the courts and therefore it would be inappropriate to seek to intervene in matters pending before them.


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[Assistant] I don't want to make sure that people aren't being beaten into confessions. We don't want to check up on any of our systems in place. We just want to let them roll. That answer is essentially, why bother? Why bother? Yeah. I don't really want to is really the answer. I don't feel like doing it. I don't feel like it. The DA's office tried Whitmore for a third time.


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[Assistant] And he was again convicted and sentenced to five to ten years in prison. How many years and years of this man's life were disrupted because of this? By 1972, George Whitmore had begun to lose complete hope of clearing his name. Like he was like, this is it.


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[Assistant] Then a journalist from the New York World Telegram received an affidavit from Elba Barrero's sister.


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[Assistant] Stating that prior to identifying George Whitmore as her attacker, Elba had already identified two other men as the assailant.


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[Assistant] Just putting it out there. It was in an affidavit. She was being truthful on the affidavit, saying like, I'm not saying he didn't do it, I'm not saying she's not, but I'm just telling ya, she identified two other guys before that. So that doesn't hold a lot of weight.


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[Assistant] Wow. The way he was identified and the fact that two other people had already been identified.


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[Assistant] I mean, come on. And how many years later did this come out? Like, Jesus Christ. This poor fucking man. Yeah.


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[Assistant] And in fact, Elba had only identified Whitmore after Detective Bolger and his partner.


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[Assistant] Had made her aware of the $10,000 reward being offered by Newsweek. So they literally just waved a bag of cash in her fucking face. And that is precisely when she agreed to change her statement.


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[Assistant] That's disgusting. That is disgusting. Like, I know that's a lot of money, but that's not worth sending somebody to jail for, to prison for the rest of their life. That's on another level. At the request of the newly appointed Brooklyn District Attorney Eugene Gold, the case was reopened.


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[Assistant] And the statements from Elvis's sister were confirmed.


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[Assistant] And that's when Whitmore's convictions were overturned and he was officially exonerated.


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[Assistant] So luckily the new Brooklyn district attorney was like, whoa, whoa, open that ship back up, put these, these in here, like we'll put all this new information in here and he got it overturned.


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[Assistant] After being released from prison in 1973, George sued for violations of his civil rights. But he lost his case. In what fucking world? And received no compensation. How did he lose that case? No compensation.


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[Assistant] What? This whole legal circus and truly nightmare he found himself in. For years and years. Yea, actually ended up being one of the catalysts for abolishing the death penalty in New York as well. Wow.


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[Assistant] And it also aided in the Supreme Court's, uhm, Miranda ruling in 1966 that guarantees criminal suspects the right to consult with an attorney. Oh wow, okay. So something good came out of it somewhere, I suppose.


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[Assistant] That's the thing though, it's like, cause I know we talk about the death penalty a lot, like you say like you're a little less gray, I'm always pretty gray, but then a case like this comes along and it's like- That'll throw you for a loop. Yes, like genuinely. Cause he would have been facing the death penalty. Cause like you can fuck it up so badly and then what if all of that came to light after they had already put this man to death? Yeah.


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[Assistant] Like he was, he would have been sent to death for these murders.


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[Assistant] Wow. That's, that like, that actually just turned my stomach. Yeah. And what makes the cases against George Whitmore so egregious is that the charges against him in the two Brooklyn cases were mostly just a pretense that would have validated the charges against him for the murders of Janice and Emily. Right.


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[Assistant] Making Eddie Bulger there and the Brooklyn Detectives look like fucking heroes. That was the whole, the whole thing behind this was Eddie Bulger and his little cronies wanted to look like fucking superheroes at the end of the day. Please tell me that that man got karma. Please tell me.


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[Assistant] The problem here was that even before Whitmore went on trial for the attack of Elba Barrero, investigators in Manhattan were fairly certain he had nothing to do with the Wiley-Hofford murders. Investigators were like, no, we don't think he did this.


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[Assistant] So, even though Detective Folger was like, I wanna get my hero status and get this on, most of the investigators were like, fuck off, this doesn't work.


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[Assistant] In October 1964, police arrested


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[Assistant] Out of this was like something totally different arrested 35 year old Nathan Delaney for the murder of a rival drug dealer.


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[Assistant] As this was his third arrest for a violent crime, Delaney knew he could receive the death penalty. What's the three strikes rule? For the murder. So he offered to tell the DA the name of the real killer in the Wiley-Hofford case.


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[Assistant] At the time, there was still intense pressure to close this case, and the DA's office knew the case against Whitmore was enchant, like he didn't do it.


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[Assistant] So they agreed to delay nice conditions. Cause remember, there's still a case against George Whitmore for this part. Yeaah. They only were able to exonerate him for the Elba Barrero.


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[Assistant] Now according to Nathan Delaney, he had been at home on the afternoon of August 28th, 1963, which is when Janice and Emily were killed.


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[Assistant] Now, Ricky, who had just been released from prison,


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[Assistant] Told Delaney that he had gone out looking for drug money and had killed two women.


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[Assistant] Now Nathan Delaney agreed to wear a wire. Holy shit. And together with his wife present they engaged Ricky Robles in the conversation.


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[Assistant] Just a regular conversation and during that whole time talking.


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[Assistant] He again admitted to killing Janice and Emily on the wire.


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[Assistant] They were able to like steer the conversation to like, remember that time?


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[Assistant] And he was like, oh absolutely. So he was just looking for drug money? He was, so we'll go, he'll explain. So all of this was recorded, him admitting to the whole thing, and it was submitted to the prosecutor.


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[Assistant] And the taped confession was enough to get a warrant for his arrest and Ricky Robles was taken into custody on January 27th, 1965.


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[Assistant] At the station, Ricky Robles maintained his innocence and asked for a lawyer.


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[Assistant] So nice that they give him that, in case you were wondering, he is white.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I had a feeling. So he got a lawyer. And I'm sure they read him his full rights. He was promptly provided a lawyer. And the two were left alone in the administrative office. And after about 25 minutes, Robel's lawyer needed to leave the room and ask the officers waiting outside to watch his client until he came back.


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[Assistant] In the interrogation room, the detectives offered Ricky some food and he declined, and at which point one of them said, Rick, did you ever think it would wind up like this?


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[Assistant] After 25 minutes to go like get something to eat or drink or like piss or something like that just for a second. And those detectives were like.


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[Assistant] Robles replied, don't know. I went to pull a lousy burglary and I wound up killing two girls.


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[Assistant] Just to be that callous about it. Now according to Robles, this is what happened.


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[Assistant] He had gone out that morning with the intention of finding an apartment to rob.


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[Assistant] Which is what led him to the building on East 88th Street, which he said he chose because there was no doorman at the time.


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[Assistant] I thought there was though. There was a doorman, but I don't know if the doorman was on break or like wasn't at the door at the time. When he entered the lobby, no one was present. So he just walked right in.


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[Assistant] And he was able to get into the maintenance corridor and found his way to the third floor. That's terrifying. When he found all the doors locked, including Janice and Emily's because remember,


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[Assistant] It was locked, even though George Whitmore's confession said it was unlocked. Uh huh.


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[Assistant] Ricky Robles is saying it was locked. That's a big part of this.


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[Assistant] So he climbed out on the ledge and slid over to the window, which is how he got into the apartment.


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[Assistant] And he said he immediately decided to sexually assault her. Oh my god, so she was still sleeping. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Now according to Delaney's wife, while he was assaulting Janice, Robles quote, heard the front door and he got up against the wall and then the girl with the glasses came in. That's Emily.


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[Assistant] So Janice was being like, let's just do whatever he says and we're not going to, she really thought they weren't going to get hurt. Oh my God. But Emily was angry.


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[Assistant] She just walked into her fucking apartment and she sees this guy sexually assaulting her friend and roommate. Like she's pissed. And you're panicked too. And so she repeatedly had said she wanted to quote, get a good look at him to identify him later. And she was trying, like she was pissed. Yeah. But this caused Ricky Robles to panic.


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[Assistant] And he went into the kitchen where according to Delaney's wife, quote, he thought it over and in about five minutes decided he was going to kill them.


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[Assistant] With his decision made, Robles grab the glass bottle.


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[Assistant] So he went back and forth between that kitchen at least twice. Did he ever, did they ever say if he was like under the influence? Cause that just seems so... He was, uhm...


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[Assistant] He was a heroin addict and he was breaking into this apartment to get money to get more heroin. So that is part of this is that he was, that was the intention here is to get money. And he specifically, he is quoted as saying to get more heroin. That was the whole point.


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[Assistant] Wow. But I just don't like, regardless of whether she said that or not, because we don't know if she said that. The only people who know whether she said that. That's according to him.


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[Assistant] Is Janice and Emily and him, and he's the only one that can talk and to be quite honest, he's not fucking credible as far as I'm concerned, so.


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[Assistant] He's a piece of shit. So Ricky Robles went on trial for the murders in October 1965 and a jury deliberated for five hours before finding him guilty.


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[Assistant] You scared me. Guilty of two charges of felony murder in the first degree. Good.


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[Assistant] After the verdict was read, reporters asked assistant DA John Keenan why police had pursued George Whitmore when they knew he was not the real killer.


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[Assistant] Like there's good, there's some bad fucking policemen out there and that's the truth. They were on it. There are bad ones. A month later, Ricky Robles was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 26 years. Why?


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[Assistant] He is also, you know, he's not getting cruel. It's not happening.


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[Assistant] Now once investigators settled on George Whitmore as their suspect.


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[Assistant] Nearly everyone seemed convinced of his guilt and never bothered to consider any alternatives and look what happened, regardless of any of the evidence.


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[Assistant] After being kicked off the case in Manhattan, Detective Eddie Bulger believed his arrest of Whitmer would make his career and vindicate him in the eyes of anyone who disapproved of his methods. That was his whole thing. How did that turn out for you? I was like, did that help? Yea, did that work out?


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[Assistant] Neither he nor anyone else involved in the false imprisonment and false arrest of George Whitmore were ever held accountable. At all? For any of the reprehensible actions that they committed. Nope. Wow. They got nothing.


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[Assistant] Wow, the fact that this man, like we were just saying,


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[Assistant] They got nothing. Wow, what a frustrating case. I'm glad that at the end, like, obviously, like, it's horrible, but I'm glad that at the end of the day, the right person got put into prison.


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[Assistant] But it's like. But it's, but it's, he didn't, so after he was released from prison, George Whitmore went back to New Jersey where he briefly owned and operated a fishing boat. Well, good for him. And eventually worked odd jobs and just, you know, floated around. And George, uhm,


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[Assistant] He struggled a lot after this, like he went through a lot and he ended up dying of a heart attack on October 8th, 2012.


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[Assistant] Wow. Now, Ricky Robles, when this was all going on, cause remember he was just out in the world while George Whitmore was being railroaded here, he watched the whole thing play out.


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[Assistant] He watched Whitmore almost die for what he had done.


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[Assistant] And he was quoted as saying, quote, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how to get them off.


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[Assistant] And then he said, I didn't want the guy to go to the electric chair, but how could I help him without implicating myself?


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[Assistant] Well, that's the whole thing. You couldn't, but you knew what to do.


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[Assistant] Why can't you implicate yourself? This man should pay for what you did? And it's like, you did it. He didn't. Like you, that's what? That's somebody that just like, doesn't have a conscience or a soul or any, like that's, that's completely soulless. No. And there is, there's a lot of sadness at the end of this case too, so.


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[Assistant] Following the death of his daughter, Max Wiley did become like a crusader against, you know, these kind of crimes and he ended up authoring a book in 1964 titled Career Girl Watch Your Step.


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[Assistant] Like many in the media and law enforcement at the time, Max wrote, no matter how accustomed to your own community you may become,


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[Assistant] Never grow to feel safe in it. Feel threatened. You are threatened. You are never safe. That is such a social commentary on being a woman. Yea. No, on September 24th, 1968, Janice's mother, Isabelle, actually died from cancer. Oh god. In the following year, Janice's sister, Pam, died of pneumonia.


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[Assistant] Oh my god. So he was like, just alone. His wife and both his children. And after so much tragic loss in like the smallest span of time. And just like quick trigger warning, cause this is a very sad end to this case. Max Wiley checked into a motel in Fredericksburg, Virginia on September 21st, 1975.


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[Assistant] And after calling the front desk to report that he was having a heart attack, he shot himself in the head with a .38 caliber revolver.


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[Assistant] Yeah. During the trial, it was also learned that during the initial canvas, the police had spoken to Ricky Robles.


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[Assistant] Lied to detectives and told them on the day of the murders her son was at her apartment asleep on the couch. You know, there's no excuse for that.


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[Assistant] Or urge to protect your child. Of course. But not when they're in the wrong like that. And you don't lie. You don't lie. You don't say he was there when he wasn't because it's like, dude, that's gonna come back. You don't know that. That's gonna come back. And how do you, I'm sorry, how do you live with yourself after? Yeah, I couldn't. And that's the thing, derailing the investigation and then look at George Whitmore. Exactly.


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[Assistant] Like come on man. What a frustrating case all the way to the very end. Yeah, and Ricky Robles maintained his innocence until 1986 when, hoping that he was going to win parole, he admitted to the parole board that he murdered Janice Wiley and Emily Hoffert.


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[Assistant] And that is the Career Girl Martyrs case. Oh, what a tragic, frustrating, yeah. Janice Wiley and Emily Hoffert. So sad, and just how senseless that was, and the brutality attached to such a senseless murder, like, yeah.


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[Assistant] Wow. Wow. Like, flabbergasting. It really is. It's the crime itself.


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[Assistant] Is so fucked up and so brutal and so horrific.


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[Assistant] Same thing. Well and I was so expecting, I was, I was so expecting you to say that it was somebody that knew Janice and like, had previously dated her or like,


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[Assistant] That's how personal it is to stab somebody over 60 times. And he... And she seemed to get more. Yea. She did get more than, I mean, Emily was also brutalized, but like Janice too. Yea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's just so crazy. Cause he had also, he'd come in there and immediately sexually assaulted her.


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[Assistant] And it was, and I didn't go into the details because I just don't want to. It was a brutal sexual assault. She went through a brutal sexual assault by this fucking pig.


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[Assistant] Just was like, bye, see you later, like this is what I think, so this is what happened and let's just throw this poor man in jail forever.


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[Assistant] That's so, just like, all of this is so gruesome.


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[Assistant] And it's like his alibi is just as good as one of the first guys in one of those murders that his girlfriend was like, no, he was with me. It's like his wife was like, no, he went to bed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On my hyperfixations, like John, John can feel them coming, he like senses it in the air. Like he feels a vibration and he's like, what are you hyperfixating on today?


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[Assistant] Yeah, no, second grade. It was like the big ass computers. Yeah, mine was when they brought, uhm, they called it the big piece and it was like a big piece of the Titanic. Oh my god. And we got to go see it in the Museum of Science. Wait, why you did?


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[Assistant] And you could literally put your hand, I don't think we should have touched it, but we did. You touched it? Yea, and it had one of the port holes, I think they're called, like those circular windows.


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[Assistant] I gotta know who the, who the people that are working in the North Sea are.


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[Assistant] Like I feel like that's like when you're, like you're in trouble. No, I think that, that, no, that's like they, that's their job. That, no, but like you should, like you should be in trouble if you, if you have to go to the North Sea. Like that should be a punishment. Absolutely, that should be a punishment. Like these are just like men and women who are like, I, this is my job. The ballsyest motherfuckers.


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[Assistant] Alright, well here we go. Now, if you guys are listening to this, I think I'm now going to make you be on North Sea TikTok because your devices are going to think, they're going to hear me talking about it and they're going to think that's something you like.


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[Assistant] But you know what, luckily my story is on land today. I'm happy about that. I say luckily, but...


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[Assistant] It's not a really lucky story on land, it's pretty terrible.


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[Assistant] Uh, but it's on land, so we're out of the sea. Uhm, we have a little bit of an old timey crime here, but my goodness.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is there a lot happening here? It's old timey-crammy. This is the murder of Mary Stanard.


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[Assistant] And I looked up the pronunciation to say it because I thought it was stenard at first, but it's standard. I could see why you would think that.


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[Assistant] On the afternoon of September 3rd, 1878.


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[Assistant] What's up, Connecticut? Hey, CT. Telling her father she was going to go blackberry picking, because that's very 1800s Connecticut. I love that. She said she was going to be back by dark, so don't worry about it. And night came.


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[Assistant] Found her body by a creek in the woods. Her father found her body? Yes, horrifically. The investigation into her murder was...


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[Assistant] Truly wild. I mean wait, there's a, there's a preacher involved. Oof. There's adultery, an illicit affair. Always. There's a possible pregnancy. There's all kinds of things. Shit. And it remains, technically,


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[Assistant] Unsolved to this day. Allegedly. But it doesn't. Allegedly. Yeaah. I mean, they're all dead. Everybody's dead. Yeaah. And also, when you hear this, you're gonna say, yeaah.


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[Assistant] I don't know if that sounds familiar to you. She died on her birthday. Oh god. September 3rd, 1856 in Madison, Connecticut. So we love a Virgo.


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[Assistant] Uh, but Madison itself was a small town of about 1500 residents on the southeastern coast along the Long Island Sound. Uh, not a ton is known about her life prior to becoming an adult because it was the 1800s, she was living a pretty,


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[Assistant] By, by those standards, unremarkable life, you know, like just a very normal, just average life.


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[Assistant] Mary, at the time she was killed, Mary was living at home with her father. Again, she was 22.


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[Assistant] Uhm, her father was Charles Stenard, er, no, I said it the way I wanted to say it first, Stannard. Stannard, huh. And she was also living with her stepsister, Susan Holly, and Mary's two-year-old son, William.


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[Assistant] Okay. Uh, there's very little information about Mary's mother, but several newer newspaper articles claim that Mary's quote, mother and grandmother were insane. Oh, that's sad. Uh, from the Hartford Current. Okay. Now, Mary had given birth to a child, William. Uh, she was unmarried, and in the 1800s,


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[Assistant] That's already kind of a little, little black mark there. And she was also refusing to name the child's father. So there were rumors around town that the father was a married man in a nearby town. And when you find out what happens later, you're like, uh oh. But this meant that Mary was not


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[Assistant] Held in the highest of social regards? Yeaah. But shockingly!


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[Assistant] And this is pretty shocking for this. She wasn't a complete pariah.


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[Assistant] She was considered a quote unquote fallen woman by those who at that time were trying to claim their own shit didn't stink.


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[Assistant] Uh, moral superiority shit, you know, it was like rampant, still is rampant, everybody tries to pretend that their shit doesn't stink when they want to shit on someone. Correct. Uh, but, so she gave birth to what they considered, and I hate the term illegitimate child, you know, because it's like, that's a child.


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[Assistant] That's surprising. Like she wasn't again held in high social regard, but she was not treated shittily.


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[Assistant] But like many rural people, especially at the time, Mary was poor, she was uneducated, but generally she, everybody thought she was very cheerful, she was friendly, she was a very hard worker, and it was said that she was, quote, ready at any time to do any labor, no matter how menial.


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[Assistant] So, she's kinda like a boss bitch who's gonna work hard for herself and her family. That's what I'm getting. She's got that. And she seems nice, she's friendly, she's cheerful, you know, she had a little oops like situation, I don't know if it was a married man, that was the rumor. And you know what, rumors...


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[Assistant] Again, had she gone past her 22 years, she would have probably gone on to lead a pretty, you know, fairly average life. So young. Unfortunately.


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[Assistant] She had to come and meet Reverend Herbert Hayden in the summer of 1878.


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[Assistant] Very normal. In 1869 he attended the Providence Conference Seminary in East Greenwich, Rhode Island. And around this time Hayden met Rosa Shaw.


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[Assistant] Cool, he's 150? That's awesome. Can he actually get married? Is he immortal? Yeah, there's certain, there's all kinds of different, uh, like, I think it's certain, like, certain pastors can get married. Okay.


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[Assistant] Not even steps, I think it's certain like offshoots, like it depends on your religion, it depends on your congregation, it depends on your...


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[Assistant] Rosa lost her mother and her sister to tuberculosis. And her doctor predicted Rosa might also succumb to that disease within the year.


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[Assistant] But he recommended maybe a change of scenery to a less polluted environment, just to help out. Okay. Cause remember, they're in town.


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[Assistant] Uhm, in Plymouth, Massachusetts. Yaaay! And so let's go see that rock! But they went and returned to East Greenwich so Hayden could continue his education and it was a good place for Rosa to kinda like chill out for a minute.