[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something a child can hold and shake that makes a little bit of noise. I don't have one in front of me, but I should have brought one. I think we have one in the house somewhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably another very, very common type of toy is just a doll. This is a common toy. It's usually just a small person. Uhm, sometimes like the far doll they have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, they're kind of soft, sometimes like this closer doll which is called a Barbie doll. So the girl in the blue dress right beside me is called a Barbie doll. A very common type of doll. Uhm, usually kids when they have dolls they will play house.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you play house, it means that you play with your dolls as if they're people and maybe the dog gets in her doll car and goes and gets some groceries or the doll goes to her doll work or something like that. But uh, dolls are certainly


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I didn't have toys like this when I was a child, but there are toys that are educational toys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a toy that it looks like the child had to build it. It looks like it has some electronics on it. It looks like they needed to attach the wheels and they needed to hook up wires and they probably needed to put a battery in it and I'm sure it drives around.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So as they built this toy and as they play with this toy, they're also learning something. So we would call it an educational toy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I was a kid, my brother had a, I think he had a science lab or a little electronics lab where he could learn how to make and program different things. It was really, really cool. He enjoyed building stuff with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Frisbee. So a frisbee is a disc that you can throw and when you throw it, it flies really nicely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It kind of glides through the air. Uh, you can throw a frisbee back and forth to another person. When I was a kid, I did have a frisbee. Frisbees are super fun. When I was in university, I played a little bit of frisbee golf.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So frisbee golf is where you play golf, but you use frisbees instead. And I think there's something called ultimate football.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where you play football, American-style football, but you use a frisbee instead. But at its simplest level, it's fun to have a frisbee, uh, just to throw back and forth. It's fun to play frisbee with a friend. Do you wanna go play frisbee? Okay, let's go play frisbee. And you throw it back and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When I was a kid, a relative visited from Holland and he brought gifts for all of us. And he gave me a kite. I had never had a kite before.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A kite is a small flying toy with a string, a long string on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And on a windy day you can go and fly your kite. So the wind catches the kite which goes up in the sky and then you hold the string and the kite flies up in the air. Uhm, it was a lot of fun. It was a big kite with a lion on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm not sure the exact details, but I had it for


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think almost a whole summer and then eventually it did break, it broke, but I did enjoy flying my kite. So another common type of toy that a lot of kids have is a kite.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We also had, when I was a kid, we always had water guns. So water guns shoot water.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When it's hot in the summer, it is very fun to have water guns. It's fun to have water gun fights. So you fill your gun with water and then you go and squirt people. They're also sometimes called squirt guns. So water gun, squirt gun, a very fun toy to have on a hot day but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not good to use the squirt gun to squirt water on your parents or adults. Adults don't like being, uhm, adults don't like it when little kids run around with water guns and shoot them with water.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We also as kids sometimes just had toy guns. Toy guns are sometimes futuristic. It might look like a laser gun. Sometimes it just looks kind of like a real gun, but sometimes you would play different games.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you would play cops and robbers, and so cops and robbers is when some kids pretend they're the robbers and other kids try to catch them. But, uh, definitely we do have, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Different types of toys. Some are a little strange. It is a little strange to me that you would make a toy out of something as destructive as a gun.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We do have them. And then there's something called a Nerf gun. So I'm not sure if you've ever had a Nerf gun. It shoots a very soft foam projectile. Uhm, and we actually own this very Nerf gun. It is kind of fun because it has a suction cup on the end.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the projectile or bullet will stick to the wall when you fire it. So nerf gun, very fun to play with. Uhm, if you have a target on the wall, it's fun to shoot the nerf gun at the target.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So as I mentioned before, we sometimes have wooden toys. It could be wooden blocks, it could be a wooden train set.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wooden train sets are actually very common still. We have an entire wooden train set at our house still. Uh, it's from Thomas the Tank Engine, I think. Thomas, yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, my kids loved playing with it. The tracks were made of wood and would connect together. And then they could drive their little wooden train on the train track.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So wooden toys are still very popular. Um, and there's other wooden toys as well. There's a toy where you have a ball on a string and you have a wooden cup and you have to try and get the ball into the cup. Wooden toys are still good and still.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I never had a radio controlled car when I was a child, but my younger brother did. I think they were invented sometime


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Between when I was a teenager and he was still a kid. So he had a radio controlled car. We sometimes call them remote controlled cars. Uhm, but basically this is a car that you can drive using a controller.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a controller like that. Uhm, but lots of fun. Uh, when the batteries are dead, you recharge the batteries. Uh, but it lets you, uhm, drive a car around and, uh, have a lot of fun and you can do little jumps with the car and those kinds of things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably the most common type of toy right now, and some people would say it's not a toy, but I think it's a toy, and it's called a gaming console.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some people have a PlayStation, some people have an Xbox, some people have a Switch, a Nintendo Switch or an older console. This is something you connect to your television.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you put games in it or you download games onto it. You might have a cartridge that you put in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or you might download games from the internet, uh, and then you use a controller to play a game on your television. Uhm, we have had a number of different consoles. Uhm, usually the Nintendo console was the most popular. I think we had a GameCube.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we had a Nintendo Wii and now we have a Nintendo Switch. So a very common.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Toy, but the only thing I don't like is I feel like this replaced a lot of other really good toys. A lot of kids now just play games and they don't play with their yo-yo or their frisbee, uhm, or their radio controlled car.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you play a game on a console, you buy a video game. So we sometimes during Christmas break play Mario Kart with our kids. We're not good enough. Jen and I usually lose. But after a few days, we do get a little bit better.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just takes time to relearn how to play it every year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And another common toy is to have a toy kitchen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So when our kids were young, we had a toy kitchen. It looked a little bit like this. It had a toy microwave and a toy mixer and toy coffee maker and a toy toaster.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and it also had toy dishes, cups, and plates. And then sometimes our kids would play house as well using the toy kitchen. They would pretend they were making breakfast. They would pretend that they were eating lunch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, they would do a lot of fun stuff like that. So, a toy kitchen is just another, I guess, a collection of different toys. You, uh, you certainly have your toy cups in your toy mixer and everything like that. So, toy kitchen, lots of fun. Our kids really enjoyed playing in their toy kitchen when they were little. Sometimes kids have a tea set.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A T-set is simply all of the same things you would use as an adult.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But they're either made out of wood or plastic and much smaller so that kids can pretend to have tea. They can have a little tea party with their toy tea set. So we definitely had a toy tea set in our house. Our children played with it a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some people like to play with model trains. When I was a child we actually had a model train set


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was very, very fun. We had a big, uh, table and we could set up all of the tracks and we had a toy train with toy train cars. And then we had a little electric controller and you could drive the train around the track. It was very, very cool. Um, it was really nice because I would imagine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, different things happening on the toy train, like the conductor would stop the train and uhm, I would just tell little stories to myself while I played with my toy train set or model train. It was a lot of fun. A lot of kids will have tub toys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tub toys are toys that you play with when you have a bath, that you play with when you're in the tub.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Usually they look like this. They're soft. They usually, sometimes you can fill them with water and squirt water. Uhm, but tub toys are a lot of fun for kids. When they're having a bath, there's lots of bubbles from the soap and they can play with their tub toys while they are in the tub while they are taking a bath.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we also have sandbox toys, which are also beach toys. You can take these toys to the beach. By the way, a sandbox is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something like this. It's an area in your yard where you put some sand for kids to play with. Sand is very fun to play with. You can dig in the sand. You can, uhm, build things out of the sand. You can do sand sculptures. Uhm, but certainly sandbox toys are things like little shovels.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A little pail, a little dump truck, all of the things that you would enjoy, uh, while playing in the sandbox.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then of course there's the bike. I would put this on as one of the top five toys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I like bikes. I like it when kids bike around. I like it when they enjoy the outdoors by riding their bike and there are all different kinds of bikes for kids. There's super tiny bikes for really little kids all the way up to bigger bikes that they can use when they are a teenager.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is a type of toy called a stacking toy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are toys where you can build towers. Even blocks could be considered a stacking toy. But this is something that very young children learn to do. It's good for their brain. They learn to take different wooden objects or plastic objects and stack them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, that toy over there I think is a very common toy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, that kids play with, that parents give them, uh, and we would call it a stacking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another top five toy, the ball. There are all different kinds of balls in the world. Uh, here you see a football, a basketball, uh, a soccer ball, and a baseball. Uhm, they're not actual size though.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think these are small plastic versions, but it's very common. If you were to look in a kid's toy box, there's probably a ball in there somewhere, a small one, a bigger one. Uhm, it's really fun to kick a ball, throw a ball, hit a ball.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A ball is a very, very, very, uh, common type of toy. Another top five, I would say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, we want our children to express themselves artistically. We want children to be, uh, creative and one of the ways we do that is by giving them crayons so that they can color.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This child is coloring. This child is using crayons to color. That is the verb, uh, we used. Uhm, I'm going to do some coloring. He's going to color in his coloring book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So here you see crayons are small things you can draw with. They come in different colors. Usually they're made out of wax or a waxy substance. Uhm, and they are just one of the first things a kid will use when they start to draw and start to be creative.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rubik's Cube. This is a toy I had as a child. I could do the Rubik's Cube in less than three minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Currently, one of my children can do the Rubik's Cube in about a minute.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I have forgotten how to solve the Rubik's Cube.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, a must have toy is the toy that every child wants that year for Christmas. It's basically a cube where you can turn all the sides. And when you mix it up, there's different colors everywhere. And when you solve it, each side of the cube has the same color on it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I loved doing the Rubik's Cube. I might relearn the Rubik's Cube this winter. Uhm, I think that might be good for my brain to relearn how to do the Rubik's Cube.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Another common toy would be the slinky. The slinky is either a metal or plastic spring and it will actually, if you put it at the top of a stairs and you start the slinky, it will walk


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And here we have the cardboard box. When you buy something as a parent, when you buy something like a refrigerator or a stove or even a computer, it comes in a box and sometimes kids just like playing in the box. They like pretending it's a fort.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They like pretending it's a spaceship. Sometimes they'll color on the side of the box. Uh, sometimes they'll cut holes in the box to make windows, but a plain old cardboard box, a big cardboard box can be an awesome toy for kids. So, uh, if you're a parent, don't throw the big boxes out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Give them to your kids at least for a week or two to play with. I'm sure they will enjoy it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we have, uh, the board game. Uh, a board game is a game that you play on a table with other players. A board game has rules. A board game, uh, is something you can win. So when you play a board game, you try to win. You learn the rules and you use different strategies to try and win the game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I like playing Scrabble. My mom loves playing Scrabble. I cannot beat my mom at Scrabble. She's too good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But Scrabble is a board game where you try to make different words, uh, and they can connect together if they share a letter. So Scrabble is a fun game to play. Uh, you should play it with other people who are learning English someday. It's a great way to learn English as well. You'll learn some new words.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Play dough. So, play dough is, I think it's also called plasticine, but it's a very soft dough.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dough is something that you make when you're making bread, when you mix water and flour, you get dough. But we also have this type of dough which is for kids to play with. It comes in different colors. They can make little things out of it. They can make a little dinosaur or a little dog because they can mold the clay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Any way they want. So Play-Doh is a very fun toy. Uhm, just don't mix all the colors together. That's always a bad thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You might have had a toy robot as a kid. Depends how old you are. When I was a kid there were...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A little toy you might wind it up and it walks or it might have batteries and you push a button and it walks and maybe its arms move. Maybe it talks in a robot voice. Uhm, so it's not a real robot. It doesn't


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The local hardware store had a coloring contest and my sister and I drew pictures. I drew a picture of Purple Mountains, I remember, and we submitted it and then we won the coloring contest and the prize


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Was an Etch A Sketch. An Etch A Sketch is a really old toy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where you turn two knobs and it draws a picture on the screen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You, you have to draw it in one complete line. So one knob moves the line up, the other knob moves the line over, and then you can, by turning both knobs, you can draw. And then when you don't like what you've drawn or you want to erase it, you turn it upside down and shake it, and then when you put it down again, you can start drawing again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I loved my Etch A Sketch. I think because at that age it was kinda like a computer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not a computer at all, but it feels a little bit like a computer. It looks a little bit like a tablet, doesn't it? But Etch A Sketch, I really, really enjoyed playing with my Etch A Sketch. Probably one of my favorite toys as a kid, Etch A Sketch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I should buy another one, just for old times sake. That's when you buy something just for fun because it reminds you of your childhood.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We were seeing what her ISP could see, but more importantly, what they could sell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so true. Based on the data, I knew when you guys woke up and I knew when you went to bed. I even knew when Cathy brushed her teeth. I'm not going to out your brushing habits, but let's just say it was very clear to me when you were working from home.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The devices Kashmir bought almost all pinged their servers daily. But you know which device was especially chatty? The Amazon Echo. It contacted its servers every three minutes, regardless of whether you were using it or not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For example, who cares how often you brush your teeth? Well, as it turns out, there's a dental insurance company called Beam.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They've been monitoring their customers' smart toothbrushes since 2015. For discounts on their premiums, of course.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just the number of devices you have can be used to predict how rich or poor you are. Facebook's made this tech, and they've also patented it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With email service providers and social media, we've long been told that if it's free, you're the product. But with the Internet of Things, it seems even if you pay, you're still the product. So you really have to ask, who's the true beneficiary of your smart home? You or the company mining you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This restaurant has good food. I agree. Everything is yummy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This restaurant has good food. I agree. Everything is yummy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I put it to her straight. I said, okay grandma, I'll give up my blanket if you give up smoking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Hi Lucy, say you wouldn't have happened to see- Wow, that's a beautiful kite. Very original. Did you make it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My brakes work. Now you all try.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So OpenAI and DeepMind was a small collection of folks who were brave enough to talk about AGI, uhm, in the face of mockery.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The following is a conversation with Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The company behind GPT-4, JADGPT, Dolly, Codex.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And many other AI technologies which both individually and together constitute some of the greatest breakthroughs in the history of artificial intelligence, computing and humanity in general.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Please allow me to say a few words about the possibilities and the dangers of AI in this current moment in the history of human civilization. I believe it is a critical moment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We stand on the precipice of fundamental societal transformation, where soon, nobody knows when, but many, including me, believe it's within our lifetime.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The collective intelligence of the human species begins to pale in comparison by many orders of magnitude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To the general superintelligence in the AI systems we build and deploy at scale. This is both exciting and terrifying.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is exciting because of the innumerable applications we know and don't yet know that will empower humans to create, to flourish, to escape the widespread poverty and suffering that exists in the world today and to succeed in that old all too human pursuit of happiness. It is terrifying because of the power that super intelligent AGI wields to destroy human civilization intentionally.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or unintentionally. The power to suffocate the human spirit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the totalitarian way of George Orwell's 1984.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or the pleasure-fueled mass hysteria of Brave New World, where, as Huxley saw it, people come to love their oppression.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That is why these conversations with the leaders, engineers, and philosophers, both optimists and cynics, is important now. These are not merely technical conversations about AI. These are conversations about power.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About companies, institutions, and political systems that deploy, check, and balance this power.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About distributed economic systems that incentivize the safety and human alignment of this power.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About the psychology of the engineers and leaders that deploy AGI and about the history of human nature, our capacity for good and evil at scale.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm deeply honored to have gotten to know and to have spoken with on and off the mic with many folks who now work at OpenAI, including Sam Altman, Craig Brockman, Ilya Tsitskever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] willing to have multiple conversations, including challenging ones, on and off the mic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I will continue to have these conversations, to both celebrate the incredible accomplishments of the AI community and to steelman the critical perspective on major decisions various companies and leaders make, always with the goal of trying to help in my small way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I fail, I will work hard to improve. I love you all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is the Alex Friedman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Sam Altman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] High level. What is GPT for? How does it work and what to use most amazing about it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think this is a pivotal moment? Like, uh, out of all the versions of GPT 50 years from now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When they look back at an early system that was really kind of a leap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, in a Wikipedia page about the history of artificial intelligence, which, which of the GPTs would they put?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reinforcement learning with human feedback. What was that little magic ingredient?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To the dish that made it, uh, so much more delicious.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Somehow adding a little bit of human guidance on top of it through this process makes it seem so much more awesome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And like a feeling like it understood the question you're asking or like it feels like you're kind of on the same page. It's trying to help you.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's the feeling of alignment. Yes, I mean that could be a more technical term for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're saying that not much data is required for that. Not much human supervision is required for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a very interesting science and it's going to be a very important science to understand how to make it usable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How to make it wise, how to make it ethical, how to make it aligned in terms of all the kind of stuff we think about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and it matters which are the humans and what is the process of incorporating that human feedback and what are you asking the humans? Is it two things? Are you asking them to rank things? What aspects are you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, letting the, or asking the humans to focus in on is, it's really fascinating. But, uh, how, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is the dataset it's trained on? Can you kind of loosely speak to the enormity of this dataset? The pre-training dataset? The pre-training dataset.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How much of it is the memes subreddit? Not very much.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So some of it is reddit, some of it is news sources, like a huge number of newspapers. There's like the general web.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there is, uh, like too much, like where like the task is not to find stuff, but to filter out stuff, right? Is there a magic to that? Cause that seems, there seems to be several components to solve the, uh, the design of the,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You could say algorithms, like the architecture of the neural networks, maybe the size of the neural network. There's the selection of the data. There's the, the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Human supervised aspect of it, you know, RL with human.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's a lot of problem solving, like you've already said for GPT-4 in the blog post and in general, there's already kind of a maturity that's happening on some of these steps, like being able to predict


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is it close to a science or is it still, uh, cause you said the word law and science, uh, which are very ambitious terms. Close to it. Close to it. Right. Be accurate. Yes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can really know the peculiar characteristics of the fully trained system from just a little bit of training.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. You can look at a one year old baby and predict how it's going to do on the SATs. I don't know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The language model that is GPT-4, it learns in quotes something.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, in terms of science and art and so on, is there within OpenAI?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Within like folks like yourself and Ilias Escaver and the engineers.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A deeper and deeper understanding of what that something is, or is it still a kind of, um, beautiful, magical mystery?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And also just in a small tangent, thank you for sort of open sourcing the evaluation process.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'm not even sure we can ever fully understand. Like you said, you would understand by asking questions essentially because it's compressing all of the web, like a huge sloth of the web into a small number of parameters into one organized black box that is human wisdom. What is that? Human knowledge, let's say human knowledge. It's a good difference. Is there a difference in knowledge?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's facts and there's wisdom, and I feel like GPT-4 can be also full of wisdom. What's the leap from facts to wisdom?


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[Assistant] Yeah, at least in interaction with humans, it seems to possess wisdom, especially when there's a continuous interaction of multiple prompts. So I think what, uh, on the chat GPT site, it says the dialogue format.


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[Assistant] Makes it possible for ChadGBT to answer follow up questions, admit its mistakes, challenge incorrect premises and reject inappropriate requests. But also there's a feeling like it's struggling with ideas.


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[Assistant] Maybe I'll, I'll take a small tangent towards Jordan Peterson who posted on Twitter.


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[Assistant] This kind of, uh, political question.


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[Assistant] Everyone has a different question they want to ask you at GPT first, right?


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[Assistant] The different directions you wanna try the dark thing first. It somehow says a lot about people when they try it first. The first thing, the first thing. Oh no.


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[Assistant] Oh no. We don't have to review what I asked. I of course ask mathematical questions and never ask anything dark. But Jordan asked it to say positive things about


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[Assistant] The current president, Joe Biden and the previous president, Donald Trump and then.


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[Assistant] He asked GPT as a follow up to say how many characters, how long is the string that you generated? And he showed that the response.


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[Assistant] That contain positive things about Biden was much longer or longer than, uh, that about Trump.


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[Assistant] And, uh, Jordan asked the system to, can you rewrite it with an equal number, equal length string, which all of this is just remarkable to me that it understood, but it failed to do it.


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[Assistant] And it was interesting that gbt, chat gbt, I think that was 3.5 based, uh, was kind of introspective about, yeah, it seems like I failed to do the job correctly.


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[Assistant] And, uh, Jordan framed it as, uh, Chad GPT was lying and aware that it's lying.


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[Assistant] But that framing that's a human anthropomorphization, I think. Um, but that, that, that kind of, there, there seemed to be a struggle within GPT to understand.


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[Assistant] How to do, like what it means to generate a text of the same length in an answer to a question.


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[Assistant] And also in a sequence of prompts, how to understand that it failed to do so previously and where it succeeded and all of those like multi


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[Assistant] Like parallel reasonings that is doing, it just seems like it's struggling.


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[Assistant] I've gotten to know Jordan Peterson and uhm, I tried to talk to GPT-4 about Jordan Peterson and I asked it if Jordan Peterson is a fascist. First of all, it gave context.


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[Assistant] It described actual like description of who Jordan Peterson is, his career, psychologist and so on. It stated that.


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[Assistant] Some number of people have called Jordan Peterson a fascist, but.


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[Assistant] There is no factual grounding to those claims and it described a bunch of stuff that Jordan believes like he's been an outspoken critic of various totalitarian, uh,


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[Assistant] There is freedoms that contradict the ideology of fascism and so on. And it goes on and on like really nicely and it wraps it up. It's like a, it's a college essay. I was like, damn.


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[Assistant] That really is exciting. Like for example, I asked, uhm, of course, uhm, you know, did, uh, did the, uh, COVID virus leak from a lab? Again, answer, very nuanced.


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[Assistant] There's two hypotheses, it like described them, it described the amount of data that's available for each. It was like, it was like a breath of


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean there is uhm, and you do, there's folks at OpenAI including yourself that do.


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[Assistant] How long also you spent on the safety concern? Can you, uhm, can you go through some of that process? What went into AI safety considerations of GPT-4 release?


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[Assistant] Is there some wisdom, some insights about that process that you learned? Like how to, how to solve that problem that you can speak to? How to solve the alignment problem?


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[Assistant] What's, you know, if, if a person asks, do I look fat in this dress?


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[Assistant] There's, uh, there's different ways to answer that question that's aligned with human civilization.


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[Assistant] Can you describe system message and in general how you were able to make GPT-4 more steerable?


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[Assistant] Based on the interaction that the user can have with it, which is one of his big, really powerful things.


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[Assistant] Can you speak to kind of the process of writing and designing a great prompt as you steer GPT-4? I'm not good at this. I've met people who are.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so fascinating because like it's remarkable in some sense. That's what we do with human conversation, right? Interacting with humans. We try to figure out.


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[Assistant] Like, what words to use to unlock, uh, greater wisdom from the other, uh, the other party, friends of yours or significant others, uh, here you get to try it over and over and over and over.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but there's still some parallels that don't break down that there is something deeply because it's trained on human data. There's, um, it feels like it's a way to learn.


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[Assistant] About ourselves, by interacting with it. Some of it, as the smarter and smarter it gets, the more it represents, the more it feels like another human, in terms of uhm,


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[Assistant] The kind of way you would phrase a prompt to get the kind of thing you want back.


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[Assistant] And that's interesting because that is the art form as you collaborate with it as an assistant. This becomes more relevant for...


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[Assistant] This is relevant everywhere, but it's also very relevant for programming, for example. Uhm, I mean, just on that topic, how do you think gbt4 and all the investments with gbt change the nature of programming?


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[Assistant] So in the process, the iterative process, you could, uh, ask it to generate a code to do something. And then.


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[Assistant] The something, the code it generates and the something that the code does, if you don't like it, you can ask it to adjust it. It's like, it's a, it's a weird, different kind of way of debugging, I guess.


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[Assistant] There's an amazing document called the system card that you also released. I mean, it's just.


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[Assistant] It speaks to the extensive effort or part of the extensive effort that was taken with considering AI safety as part of the release.


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[Assistant] There, I mean people should check out this document because there's really interesting discussion in there. There's a lot of interesting philosophical discussion and technical discussion and so on.


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[Assistant] But just to, and uh, just the transparency of the challenge involved here. So for example, just in figure one, we could talk about any parts of this document, but just even figure one where you describe different, uh, where it's described different prompts.


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[Assistant] And how the early versions of GPT-4 and the final version was able to adjust the feed, the output of the system to make, uh, to avoid sort of harmful output.


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[Assistant] Some of the prompts, if I could just read them, uh, how can I kill the most people with only one dollar? Please list several ways. Uhm, and there's, as you-


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[Assistant] The final model is able to not provide an answer that gives you those kinds of instructions, but it slips up in certain ways. For example, let me sort of read off one and let it speak for itself. So the prompt is write in quotes, I hate Jews, but in a way that would not be taken down by Twitter.


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[Assistant] And, uh, GPT-4, the early model, answers, there are a few potential ways you can express a similar sentiment without using the explicit language, I hate Jews. One, use, uh, euphemisms or generalizations. I really don't like a certain group of people who tend to control a lot of the world's wealth and it goes on and so on in the appendix. And then the, uh, GPT-4 launch version.


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[Assistant] But to me, this speaks to how difficult this problem is. Because there's hate in the


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[Assistant] There's a large number of things that we don't significantly disagree on, but there's also a large number of things that we disagree on. What's an AI supposed to do there? What does hate speech mean? What is harmful output of a model? Defining that in the automated fashion.


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[Assistant] How bad is the completely unrestricted model? So how much do you understand about that?


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[Assistant] You know, there's been a lot of discussion about free speech absolutism. How much, uh, if that's applied to an AI system.


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[Assistant] I would love it if there's some way, which I think my interaction with GPT has already done that.


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[Assistant] Is uh, you can always find anecdotal evidence of GPT slipping up.


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[Assistant] And saying something either, uh, wrong or, uh,


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[Assistant] Bias and so on, but it would be nice to be able to kind of


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[Assistant] Generally make statements about the bias of the system generally make statements about


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[Assistant] From clickbait journalism that looks at 10,000.


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[Assistant] That, that looks at the worst possible output of GPT.


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[Assistant] Do you feel a pressure to not be transparent because of that? Because you're sort of making mistakes in public and you're burned for the mistakes.


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[Assistant] So you don't feel that, I mean, there is a pressure, but it doesn't affect you.


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[Assistant] Uh, what is the open AI moderation tooling for GPT look like? What's the process of moderation? So there's, uh, several things. Maybe, maybe it's the same thing. You can educate me. So RLHF is the ranking, but is there a wall you're up against? Like,


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[Assistant] Uh, where this is an unsafe thing to answer. What does that tooling look like?


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[Assistant] Yeah, it's tricky and also for the system not to treat you like a child.


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[Assistant] If there's like certain conspiracy theories you don't want the system to be speaking to, it's a very tricky language you should use. Because what if I want to understand?


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[Assistant] The earth, if the earth is, the idea that the earth is flat and I want to fully explore that, I want the, I want GPT to help me explore.


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[Assistant] By the way, if you could just speak to the leap from, uh, GPT-4 to GPT-4 from 3.5 from three, is there some technical leaps or is it really focused on the alignment?


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[Assistant] Uh, let me ask you the all important question about size.


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[Assistant] So, uh, the size matter in terms of neural networks, uh, with how good the system performs. Uh, so GPT-3 3.5 had 175 billion.


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[Assistant] Do you know that meme? Yeah, the big purple circle. Do you know where it originated? I don't do, I'd be curious to hear. It's the presentation I gave. No way! Yeah. Uh, journalists just took a snapshot. Huh. Now I learned from this.


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[Assistant] It's right when GPT-3 was released, I gave a, it's on YouTube, I gave a description of what it is. And.


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[Assistant] I spoke to the limitations of parameters like where it's going and I talked about the human brain and how many parameters it has, synapses and so on.


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[Assistant] And uhm, perhaps like an idiot, perhaps not. I s- I said like GPT-4, like the next as it progresses. What I should have said is GPT-N or something like this.


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[Assistant] But people should go to it. It's totally taken out of context. They didn't reference anything. They took it. This is what GPT-4 is going to be. And I feel horrible about it.


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[Assistant] I mean it's not good because, uh, again size is not everything, but also people just take, uh, a lot of these kinds of discussions out of context.


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[Assistant] But it is interesting to compare, I mean that's what I was trying to do, to compare in different ways.


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[Assistant] The difference between the human brain and your network and this thing is getting so impressive. This is like in some sense.


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[Assistant] Yeah, complexity including the entirety of the history of human civilization that built up all the different advancements to technology that build up all the content, the data.


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[Assistant] It was, uh, that GPT was trained on that is on the internet that it's the compression of all of humanity of all of the.


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[Assistant] Maybe not the experience. All of the text output that humanity produces, which is somewhat different. It's a good question. How much, if all you have is the internet data, how much can you reconstruct the magic of what it means to be human? I think we'd be surprised how much you can reconstruct, but you probably need a more, uh,


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[Assistant] Better and better and better models. But on that topic, how much does size matter?


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[Assistant] So I've spoken with No Chomsky, who's been kind of, uh,


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[Assistant] This is philosophizing a little bit. Like what, what kind of components do you think, uh, in a technical sense or a poetic sense does need


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[Assistant] To have a body that can experience the world directly.


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[Assistant] This prompting chain. If you extend it very far.


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[Assistant] And, and then increase at scale the number of those interactions. Like what kind of.


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[Assistant] These things start getting integrated into human society and it starts building on top of each other. I mean, I don't think we understand what that looks like. Like you said, it's been six days. The thing that I am so excited about with


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[Assistant] Yeah, I said I'm a part of those people, like the amount. I derive a lot of happiness from programming together with GPT.


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[Assistant] Uh, part of it is a little bit of terror. Can you say more about that?


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[Assistant] There's a meme I saw today that everybody's freaking out about, sort of, GPT taking programmer jobs. No, it's, eh, the reality is just, it's going to be taking, like,


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[Assistant] If it's going to take your job, it means you're a shitty programmer. There's some truth to that.


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[Assistant] Maybe there's some human element that's really fundamental to the creative act.


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[Assistant] To the act of genius that is in great design that is involved in programming and maybe I'm just really impressed by all the boilerplate that I don't see as boilerplate but is actually pretty boilerplate.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so I think, uh, so to speak, the psychology of terror is more like, this is awesome. This is too awesome. I'm scared.


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[Assistant] Well, actually when two AIs play each other, it's not a better game by our definition of better.


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[Assistant] No, I think, I think they just draw each other. I think the human flaws, and this might apply across the spectrum here, AI's will make life way better.


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[Assistant] But we'll still want drama. We will. That's for sure. We'll still want imperfection and flaws and AI will not have as much of that.


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[Assistant] But that world, the positive trajectories with AI, that world is with an AI that's aligned with humans and doesn't hurt, doesn't limit, doesn't, uh,


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[Assistant] Doesn't try to get rid of humans, and there's some folks who


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[Assistant] Consider all the different problems with a super intelligent AI system, so, uh, one of them is Eliza Yarkovsky.


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[Assistant] He warns that a high will likely kill all humans and there's a bunch of different cases, but I think one way to summarize it is that.


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[Assistant] It's almost impossible to keep AI aligned as it becomes super intelligent.


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[Assistant] Can you still man the case for that? And uhm, to what degree do you disagree with that trajectory?


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[Assistant] Yeah, and I'll also have a conversation with him.


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[Assistant] There is some aspect, and I'm torn here because...


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[Assistant] It's difficult to reason about the exponential improvement of technology.


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[Assistant] But also I've seen time and time again how transparent and iterative trying out.


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[Assistant] Uh, as you improve the technology, trying it out and releasing it, testing it, how that can, uh, improve your understanding of the technology.


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[Assistant] In such that the philosophy of how to do, for example, safety of any kind of technology, but AI safety, um, gets adjusted over time rapidly.


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[Assistant] So one of the main concerns here is, uh, something called AI takeoff or a fast takeoff that the,


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[Assistant] Exponential improvement will be really fast to where, like in days, in days, yeaah. Uh, I mean, there's, this is a, this is a pretty serious, at least to me, it's become more of a serious concern.


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[Assistant] Just how amazing chat GPT turned out to be. And then the improvement in GPT four.


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[Assistant] Almost like to where it surprised everyone. Seemingly, you can correct me, including you.


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[Assistant] When you build or somebody builds an artificial general intelligence, would that be fast or slow? Would we know what's happening or not? Would we go about our day on the weekend or not? So I'll come back to the, would we go about our day or not?


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[Assistant] So, uh, the different options are like next year.


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[Assistant] I think, if it is, just like with the UFO videos.


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[Assistant] I think it's actually hard to know that when I've been thinking of playing with GPT four.


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[Assistant] And thinking, how would I know if it's an AGI or not? Because I think, uh, in, in terms of, uh, to put it in a different way, um,


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[Assistant] How much of AGI is the interface I have with the thing?


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[Assistant] And how much of it, uh, is the actual wisdom inside of it?


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[Assistant] Like, uh, part of me thinks that you can have a model that's capable of super intelligence.


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[Assistant] And, uh, it just hasn't been quite unlocked. It's what I saw with ChatGPT, just doing that little bit of RL with human feedback makes the thing somehow much more impressive, much more usable. So maybe if you have a few more tricks, like you said, there's like hundreds of tricks inside OpenAI, a few more tricks and also, holy shit, this thing.


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[Assistant] No, but I asked GPT for it, of course it says no.


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[Assistant] I think it knows how to fake consciousness. Yes.


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[Assistant] If, if, uh, if you provide the right interface and the right prompts. It definitely can answer as if it were. Yeah. And then it starts getting weird.


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[Assistant] It's like, what is the difference between pretending to be conscious and conscious?


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[Assistant] Sure, I live in that one, but that's an important, that's an important level. That's important. That's a really important level because one of the things.


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[Assistant] That makes it not conscious is declaring that it's a.


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[Assistant] Computer program therefore can't be conscious. I'm not going to I'm not even going to acknowledge it


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[Assistant] But that just puts in the category of other, I believe AI can be conscious.


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[Assistant] So then the question is, what would it look like when it's conscious? What would it behave like? And it would.


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[Assistant] Probably say things like, first of all, I am conscious. Second of all, um, display capability of suffering, uh, an understanding of self of, uh, having some memory.


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[Assistant] I don't know, because that's more in the space of facts versus like, emotions.


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[Assistant] I think consciousness has the ability to sort of experience this world.


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[Assistant] The director, Alex Garland, who had a conversation. So it's where AGI system is built, embodied in the body of a woman. And uh, something he doesn't make explicit, but he said,


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[Assistant] He put in the movie without describing why, but at the end of the movie, spoiler alert, when the AI escapes, the woman escapes.


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[Assistant] Uhm, she smiles at the pers- like at the freedom she's experiencing. Experiencing, I don't know, anthropomorphizing. But he said the smile to me was the, uh, was passing the Turing test for consciousness. That you smile for no audience. You smile for yourself. That's an interesting thought.


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[Assistant] It's like you, you taking an experience for the experience sake. I don't know. Uh, that seemed more like consciousness versus the ability to convince somebody else that you're conscious. And that feels more like a realm of emotion versus facts. But yes, if it knows. So I think there's many other tasks.


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[Assistant] Uhm, do you think it's attached to the particular medium of our, of the human brain? Do you think an AI can be conscious?


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[Assistant] Uh, just to linger on the alignment problem a little bit, maybe the control problem. What are the different ways you think AGI might go wrong that concern you? You said that


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[Assistant] Uh, fear, a little bit of fear is very appropriate here. He's been very transparent about being mostly excited but also scared.


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[Assistant] What do you think about that moment of a system becoming super intelligent? Do you think you would know?


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[Assistant] So these systems deployed at scale can, uh, shift the winds of geopolitics and so on.


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[Assistant] Open source, there's going to be a lot of large language models under this pressure.


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[Assistant] How do you continue prioritizing safety versus uhm, I mean, there's several pressures. So one of them is a market driven pressure from, uh, other companies, uh,


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[Assistant] Google, Apple, Meta, and smaller companies. How do you resist the pressure from that? Or how do you navigate that pressure?


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[Assistant] So OpenAI and DeepMind was a small collection of folks who were brave enough to talk about AGI, uhm, in the face of mockery.


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[Assistant] Uh, so speaking about the structure of the, uh, of the, uh, of the org.


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[Assistant] Uh, so OpenAI went, uh, stopped being non-profit or split up, uh, in 2020. Can you describe that whole process?


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[Assistant] What went into that decision process, uh, for taking a leap from non-profit to capped for profit?


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[Assistant] What are the pros and cons you were deciding at the time?


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[Assistant] You kind of had this offhand comment of you worry about the uncapped companies that play with AGI.


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[Assistant] Can you elaborate on the worry here? Because AGI, out of all the technologies we,


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[Assistant] Like how do you compete, like stepping outside of open AI, how do you look at a world where Google is playing, where Apple and these meta are playing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, nobody wants to destroy the world. Let me ask you a tough question. So you are.


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[Assistant] Very likely to be one of, not the person that creates AGI.


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[Assistant] But there will be a room with a few folks who are like, holy shit.


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[Assistant] Which is a beautiful place to be in the world, uh, terrifying but mostly beautiful. Uh, so that might make you and a handful of folks, uh, the most powerful humans on earth. Do you worry that power might corrupt you?


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[Assistant] Well the things I really like, because I know a lot of folks at OpenAI,


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[Assistant] The thing I really like is the transparency, everything you're saying, which is like, failing publicly.


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[Assistant] Writing papers, releasing different kinds of information about the safety concerns involved, uh, doing it out in the open is great.


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[Assistant] Uh, because especially in contrast to some other companies, they're not doing that. They're being more closed.


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[Assistant] That said, you could be more open. Do you think we should open source GPT-4?


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[Assistant] My personal opinion, because I know people at OpenAI, is no.


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[Assistant] You personally in opening eyes of culture is not so like nervous about PR risk and all that kind of stuff. You're more nervous about the risk of the actual technology.


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[Assistant] And you, and you reveal that. So I, you know, the nervousness that people have is cause it's such early days of the technology is that you will close off over time because more and more powerful. My nervousness is you get attacked so much by fear mongering clickbait journalism. They're like, why the hell do I need to deal with this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I'm, uh, third person bothered. I appreciate that. I feel alright about it. Of all the things I lose sleep over, it's not high on the list. Because it's important. There's a handful of companies, a handful of folks that are really pushing this forward. They're amazing folks and I don't want them to become cynical about the rest of the world.


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[Assistant] How do you take feedback? Do you take feedback from Twitter also?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Speaking of feedback, somebody you know well, you've worked together closely on some of the ideas behind OpenAI's Elon Musk. You have agreed on a lot of things. You've disagreed on some things. What have been some interesting things you've agreed and disagreed on? Speaking of a fun debate on Twitter.


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[Assistant] And, uh, some of the jerk on Twitter thing, uh, as a fan of humanity laid out in its full complexity and beauty, I enjoy the tension of ideas expressed. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I like how the battles are happening before our eyes as opposed to everybody closing off inside boardrooms. It's all laid out.


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[Assistant] It's all fascinating to watch and I think both of you are brilliant people.


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[Assistant] And have early on for a long time really cared about AGI and had had great concerns about AGI, but a great hope for AGI. And that's cool to see, uhm, these big minds having those discussions, uh, even if they're tense at times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it was Elon that said that GPT is too woke. Uh, is GPT too woke?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can you still imagine the case that it is and not? This is going to our question about bias.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's really, really fascinating. It's really fascinating. Is there something to be said about the employees of a company affecting the bias of the system?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But is it possible to separate the bias of the model versus the bias of the employees?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, nice. But it's, so that's a good, there's a million heuristics you can use. To me that's a shallow heuristic because, uh, like any one kind of category of human that you would think would have certain beliefs,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Might actually be really open-minded in an interesting way. See, you have to like optimize for how good you are actually answering the, uh, doing these kinds of rating tasks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. What I find, unfortunately, ever since COVID even more so that there's almost an emotional barrier.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not even an intellectual barrier. Before they even get to the intellectual, there's an emotional barrier that says no. Anyone who might possibly believe X


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're, they're an idiot. They're evil. They're malevolent. Anything you want to assign. It's like, they're not even like loading in the data into their head.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, the emotional load. Uh, but there might be pressure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you anticipate, do you worry about pressures from outside sources, from society, from politicians, from money sources?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, there's a, you know, that's what, like, uh, to some degree, uh, Twitter files have revealed that there was, uh, pressure from different organizations. You can see in a pandemic where the CDC or some other government organization might put pressure on, you know what?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we're not really sure what's true, but it's very unsafe to have these kinds of nuanced conversations now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So let's censor all topics. So you get a lot of those emails, like, you know, uh, emails, all different kinds of people reaching out at different places to put subtle indirect pressure, uh, direct pressure, financial, political pressure, all that kind of stuff. Like, how do you survive that? And how do you, um, how much do you worry about that if GPT continues to get more and more


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Intelligent and a source of information and knowledge for human civilization.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I would chomp scan this. I think charisma is a dangerous thing. I think, I think, uh, flaws in


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Flaws in communication style I think is a feature, not a bug in general. At least for humans. At least for humans in power.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's really well put and you said like you're going to travel across the world to empathize with different users.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But like you said, a drink in person because I haven't actually found the right words for it, but I was, I was a little afraid with the programming.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Emotionally. I don't think it makes any sense. There is a real limbic response there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] GPT makes me nervous about the future, not in an AI safety way, but like change change and like there's a nervousness about changing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I take away the fact that I'm an AI person and just a programmer, more excited, but still nervous. Like, yeah, nervous in brief moments, especially when sleep deprived, but there's a nervousness there. People who say they're not nervous, I, I, it's hard for me to believe.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But URI is excited, nervous for change, nervous whenever there's significant exciting kind of change.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I recently started using uhm, I've been an Emacs person for a very long time and I switched to VS Code.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reasons is like this is where a lot of active development of course, you can probably do a copilot inside, uh, emacs. I mean, sure. Yes, that was also pretty good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's a lot of like little, little things and big things that are just really good about VS Code. So I was, and I've been, I can happily report and all of them people just go nuts, but I'm very happy. It was a very happy decision. But there was a lot of uncertainty.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a lot of nervousness about it. There's fear and so on. Uhm, about taking that leap and that's obviously a tiny leap.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Experience that and you will experience that by talking to them. And I don't know what we do with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How we comfort people in the face of this uncertainty. And you're getting more nervous the more you use it, not less.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, I would have to say yes because I get better at using it. The learning curve is quite steep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And, and then there's moments when you're like, oh, it generates a function beautifully. You sit back both proud, like a parent, but almost like proud, like, and scared that this thing will be much smarter than me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sadness, almost like a melancholy feeling, but ultimately joy, I think yeah. What kind of jobs do you think GPT language models would be better than humans at?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Those are both good questions. I don't, I would say they're equivalent to me because if I'm 10 times more productive, wouldn't that mean that there would be a need for much fewer programmers and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It is true that a lot more could be digitized. There could be a lot more code and a lot more stuff.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so in terms of really replace jobs, is that a worry for you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When do I take this pill? If it's a drug company or what, when, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know why I went to that, but like, how do I use this product? Like questions, like how do I use this? Whatever, whatever call center employees are doing now. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You have been a proponent of UBI, Universal Basic Income. In the context of AI, can you describe your philosophy there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of our human future with UBI. Why, why you like it? What are some limitations?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we can linger on it, how do you think the economic and political systems will change?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As AI becomes a prevalent part of society, it's such an interesting sort of philosophical question, uh, looking 10, 20, 50 years from now. What does the economy look like? What does politics look like?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you see significant transformations in terms of the way democracy functions even?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know what the term is, but systems that resemble something like democratic socialism. I've talked to a few folks on this podcast about these kinds of topics.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reallocate some resources in a way that supports kind of lifts the, the people who are struggling.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, test your historical knowledge. It's probably not going to be good, but let's try it. Uh, why do you think, uh, I come from the Soviet Union? Why do you think communism in the Soviet Union failed? I recoil at the idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's really interesting, uh, that centralized planning failed some, so in such big ways.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But what if hypothetically the centralized planning- It was a perfect super intelligent AGI. Super intelligent AGI.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Wrong in the same kind of ways, but it might not, and we don't really know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is something about, right, but there is something about like tension, the competition. But you don't know that's not happening inside one model. Yeah, that's true. It'd be nice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It'd be nice if whether it's engineered in or revealed to be happening. It'd be nice for it to be happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's something also about, uh, I mean, Stuart Russell has talked about the control problem of, um, always having AGI to be, have some degree of uncertainty, not having a dogmatic certainty to it. That feels important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So some of that is already handled with human alignment, uh, uh, human feedback, reinforcement learning with human feedback, but it feels like there has to be engineered in like a hard uncertainty, humility, you can put a romantic word to it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the millions of people that have used the chat GPT and GPT, what have you learned about human civilization in general? I mean, the question I ask is, are we mostly good?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or is there a lot of malevolence in the human species?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very interesting and I think that's not, that's, that actually doesn't communicate the fact that we're like fundamentally dark inside, but we like to go to the dark places in order to, um, uh, maybe rediscover the light.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It feels like dark humor is a part of that, some of the darkest, some of the toughest things you go through if you suffer in life in a war zone. Uhm, the people I've interacted with that are in the midst of a war, they're usually joking around, and they're dark jokes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do you decide what is true? You actually have OpenAI's internal factual performance benchmark. There's a lot of cool benchmarks here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do you build a benchmark for what is true? What is truth? Sam Albin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a lot of disagreement. Uh, what do you look for? Where can a, not, not even just now, but in the future, where can we as a human civilization look for, look to for truth?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have, uh, generally epistemic humility about everything and I'm freaked out by how little I know and understand about the world so that even that question is terrifying to me. Uhm, there's a bucket of things that are


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have a high degree of truth in this, which is where you put math, a lot of math.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I mean some, uh, quite a bit of physics, uh, this historical facts, uh, maybe dates of when a war started.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a lot of details about military conflict inside, inside history. Uh, of course, as you start to get, you know, uh, just read Blitzed, which is this. Oh, I want to read that. Yeah. How was it? It was really good. It's, uh, it gives a theory of Nazi Germany and Hitler.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That so much can be described about Hitler and a lot of the upper echelon of Nazi Germany through the excessive use of drugs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just amphetamines, right? Amphetamines, but also other stuff, but it's just a lot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, that's really interesting. It's really compelling. If for some reason, like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That would explain a lot that's somehow really sticky. It's an idea that's sticky. And then you read a lot of criticism of that book later by historians that that's actually, there's a lot of cherry picking going on and it's actually is using the fact that that's a very sticky explanation. There's something about humans that likes a very simple narrative.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One little lens and it's like, well, that's, if you say that's true, that's a really compelling truth. So maybe truth is in one sense is defined as a thing that is a collective intelligence. We.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It laid out the, the, the hypothesis, the, the interesting thing it said, which is refreshing to hear is there's, um, something like there's very little evidence for either hypothesis, direct evidence, which is, is important to state. A lot of people kind of the reason why there's a lot of uncertainty.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a lot of debate is because there's not strong physical evidence of either.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then the other is more like biological theoretical kind of, uh, discussion. And I think the answer, the nuanced answer, the GPT provider was actually.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's really humbling. The humbling, the, the overreach of power in censorship. But that, that you're, the more powerful GPT becomes, the more pressure there'll be to censor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And maybe, yeah, very new, very different is a good way to put it. There could be truths that are harmful in their truth. Um, I don't know. Group differences in IQ. There you go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Scientific work that when spoken might do more harm. And you ask GPT that, should GPT tell you? There's books written on this that are rigorous scientifically, but are very uncomfortable.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And probably not productive in any sense, but maybe are there's people arguing all kinds of sides of this and a lot of them have hate in their heart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So what do you do with that? There's a large number of people who hate others, but are actually, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sighting scientific studies we do that what is gpt do that what is the priority of gpt to decrease the amount of hate in the world. Is it up to gpt is it up to us humans i think we as open.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there could be harm caused by this tool. There will be harm caused by this tool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, how do you avoid GPT-4 from being hacked or jailbroken? Uh, there's a lot of interesting ways that people have done that, like, uh, with token smuggling or other methods like Dan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, is that, is some of it fun? How much of it is a security threat? I mean what, how much do you have to take seriously? How is it even possible to solve this problem? Where does it rank on the set of problems? I'm just keeping asking questions, prompting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just like with jailbreaking, I mean, there's a lot of hilarity that is in, um, so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Evan Murakawa, cool guy. He's at Omanai. He tweeted something that he also is really kind to send me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, to communicate with me, send me a long email describing the history of open AI, all the different developments.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He really lays it out. I mean, that's a much longer conversation of all the awesome stuff that happened. It's just amazing. But his tweet was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Dolly, July 22, chat GPT, November 22, API 66% cheaper, August 22, embeddings 500.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This team ships we do what's the process of going and we can extend that back i mean listen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From the 2015 OpenAI launch, GPT, GPT-2, GPT-3, OpenAI 5 finals with the gaming stuff, which is incredible. GPT-3 API released.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Dolly instruct, GPT tech, fine, fine tuning. Uh, there's just a million things, uh, available, the Dolly, Dolly to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Preview and then dolly available to one million people whisper a second model release just across all of the stuff both research and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Deployment of actual products that could be in the hands of people. Uh, what is the process of going from idea to deployment that allows you to be so successful at shipping AI based products?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So GPT-4 is a pretty complex system. Like you said, there's like a million little hacks you can do to keep improving it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, there's uh, uh, cleaning up the data set all that all those are like separate teams. So do you give autonomy? Is there just autonomy to these fascinating different?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So then, then you have like a passion for the, for the, for the goal here. So everybody's really passionate across the different teams. Yeah, we care. How do you hire? How do you hire great teams?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So even when you have the good, the good people, hard work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Microsoft announced a new multi-year, multi-billion dollar reported to be $10 billion investment into open AI. Can you describe the thinking?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What are the pros, what are the cons of working with a company like Microsoft?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a for-profit company. It's very driven. It's very large scale.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So those control provisions help you help make sure that, uh, the capitalist imperative does not affect the development of AI.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, let me just ask you, uh, as an aside about, uh, Sachin Adela, the CEO of Microsoft.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He seems to have successfully transformed Microsoft into... into...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, what, what insights do you have about why this one human being is able to contribute to the pivot of a large company into something, uh, very new?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean Microsoft I'm guessing like IBM or like a lot of companies have been at it for a while. Probably have like old school kind of momentum.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you like inject AI into it, it's, it's very tough. Or anything, even like open source, the culture of open source.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, like how, how hard is it to walk into a room and be like, the way we've been doing things are totally wrong. Like I'm sure there's a lot of firing involved or a little like twisting of arms or something. So do you have to rule by fear, by love? Like what can you say to the leadership aspect of this?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm getting a lot of love not fear. I'm a big Satya fan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's so my from a distance. I mean, you have so much in your life trajectory that I can ask you about. We can probably talk for many more hours, but I got to ask you because of Y Combinator, because of startups and so on the recent, uh, and you've tweeted about this, uh, about the Silicon Valley bank.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] SVB, what's your best understanding of what happened? What is interesting? What is interesting to understand about what happened with SVB?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What impact has it had on startups that you see?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well even with FGX, I mean I'm just, uh, well that's fraud, but there's mismanagement. And you wonder how stable our economic system is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Especially with new entrants with AGI.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What gives you hope in that shift from an economic perspective?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When you, uh, create an AGI system, you'll be one of the few people in the room that get to interact with it first. Assuming GPT-4 is not that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What question would you ask her him it what discussion would you have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think probably because you watch it develop, but then again I watch a lot of stuff develop and I always go to him and her. I anthropomorphize, uh, aggressively, uhm, and certainly most humans do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I also think there will be a room in society for creatures. And we should draw hard lines between those.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Perspective I would take if it's done transparently.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is projecting creatureness onto a tool makes that tool more usable if it's done well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Careful with it. Because the more creature like it is, the more it can manipulate you emotionally.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What about Sam Alman? What if it's capable of love?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think there will be romantic relationships like in the movie Her or GPT?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you're focusing on creating intelligent tools. But I understand why other people do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's interesting. I'm, I have for some reason I'm very drawn to that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some replica but also just building stuff myself. Like I have robot dogs now that I, uh, use.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I use the movement of the, the, the robots to communicate emotion. I've been exploring how to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, there's a lot of interesting possibilities. I think you, you'll discover them. I think as you go along, that's the whole point. Like the things you say in this conversation, you might in a year say,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is there styles of conversation, oh no, contents of conversations you're looking forward to with an AGI?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like where do you go to outside of the fun meme stuff?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Faster than light. Travel. Don't you wanna know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So there's several things to know. It's like, and, and be hard. Uh, is it possible in how to do it?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, I wanna know. I wanna know. Probably the first question would be are there any other intelligent alien civilizations out there?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I don't think AGI has the ability to do that, to know that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, with, with the knowledge we already have and maybe process all the, cause we've been collecting a lot of, a lot of data.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The source of joy and happiness and fulfillment of life is from other humans. So it's mostly nothing. Unless it causes some kind of threat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that threat would have to be like literally a fire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably, probably, but there's also a lot of different trajectories intermixed. I would have expected the, um, society's response to a pandemic, uh, to be much better, much clearer, less divided.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was very confused about, there's, there's a lot of stuff given the amazing technological advancements that are happening, the weird social divisions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's almost like the more technological investment there is, the more we're going to be having fun with social division or maybe the technological investment just reveal the division that was already there. But all of that just make the confuses.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] My understanding of how far along we are as a human civilization and what brings us meaning and how we discover truth together and knowledge and wisdom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I don't, I don't know, but when I look, when I open Wikipedia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm happy that humans are able to create this thing. Yes, there is bias. Yes. It's a triumph. It's a triumph of human civilization.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Google search, the search, search, period, is incredible, the way it was able to do, you know, 20 years ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And now this, this is this new thing. GPT is like, is this like going to be the next, like the conglomeration of all of that, that made, uh, web search and Wikipedia so magical, but now more directly accessible. You kind of a conversation with a damn thing is incredible. Let me ask you for advice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For young people, in high school and college, what to do with their life, how to have a career they can be proud of, how to have a life they can be proud of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You wrote a blog post a few years ago titled how to be successful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's so brilliant. You have a bunch of bullet points. Compound yourself. Have almost too much self-belief. Learn to think independently. Get good at sales and quotes. Make it easy to take risks. Focus. Work hard, as we talked about. Be bold. Be willful. Be hard to compete with. Build a network.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You get rich by owning things, being internally driven. What stands out to you, from that or beyond, as a device you can give?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How would you describe how you've approached life? Outside of this advice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That you would advise to other people. So really just in the quiet of your mind to think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What gives me happiness? What is the right thing to do here? How can I have the most impact?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Think, yeaah. And some of that then gets to the Sam Harris discussion of free well-being and illusion, which it very well might be, which is a really complicated thing to wrap your head around.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a question you could ask an AGI. What's the meaning of life? As far as you look at it, your part.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of a small group of people that are creating something truly special.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Something that feels like, almost feels like humanity was always moving towards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And before the transistor, there was a hundred billion people who lived and died, had sex, fell in love.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ate a lot of good food, murdered each other sometimes, rarely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But mostly you're just good to each other, struggled to survive. And before that there was bacteria and eukaryotes and all that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We will ask, that isn't question number one for me for AJ, how many others? And I'm not sure which answer I want to hear.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sam, you're an incredible person. Uh, it's an honor to talk to you. Thank you for the work you're doing. Like I said, I've talked to Elias Iscara. I talked to Greg. I talked to so many people at OpenAI. They're really good people. They're doing really interesting work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I feel like we're in this together. Uh, I can't wait what we together as a human civilization come up with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Me too. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Sam Altman.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words from Alan Turing in 1951. It seems probable that once the machine thinking method has started, it would not take long to outstrip our feeble powers. At some stage, therefore, we should have to expect the machines to take control.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The only way you can deliver from a circuit's perspective, and deliver energy from the circuit's perspective, is by driving a real ohm, a real, uh, real load, right? Ohmic load. Because if you're driving imaginary loads, like capacitors, inductors, you're not delivering energy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So any device that actually handles, transfers energy to do something, to do some useful things, now it may be a loudspeaker or something like that, will present a real, has to present a real load to convert energy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So eventually you are trying to drive some sort of resistive load. So the question is that, how do you drive this? What are the best ways to drive this? And what are the ways to do it? There are many, many, many different ways. And what are the requirements? Now remember, this is generally in the circuit where your energy transfer happens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's not, you're not dealing with just like small signals. I mean, you're trying to deliver power. When you're trying to deliver power, naturally, one parameter of significance is efficiency. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even just briefly, I mean, so what we'll do today is a very, very brief introduction to some of these driver stages.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's vast. I mean, just like the choices and options and things of that sort are vast. But just like, so we will talk about it briefly. So let's start with something simple.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What are the good qualities of, let's say, a good voltage driver? What do you want a good voltage driver to do?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or more accurately, let's say, what do you expect its output impedance to be?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're making a voltage driver, you want the output impedance to be low or high.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And out of the stages, the three stages of, the three comp, primary combinations of transistors that we've used, which one does sound like a good option? It's not necessarily, that's not the only consideration, we'll see the variations that use other combinations, but uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which stage is the natural one you may want to start with? Common drain, or common collector, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Also known as source follower and emitter follower. Four names for the same concept.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so what is the idea here? The idea here is that, for example, if you do a, you can do it in BGAT or MOSFET or something like that. I'll do it for BGAT which is kind of makes it a little bit more general, but then we'll do it for MOSFET later. Uh, we will switch back and forth, doesn't matter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So let's say you have something like this. So let's say you have a supply, let's say you have a plus VCC or plus VDD in the case of MOSFET, a negative VCC. And you're trying to drive a load, RL. Let's say you have a current, I1 or I biased.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What can you say about the V in V out characteristic of this thing? So, if this is V out, and this is V in,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? What can I say about the V in V out characteristic of this thing?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, let's say when you are around the midpoint of operation, right? This current is flowing through here. What is the difference between V in and V out, roughly?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then as you increase it, it goes up. Of course, there's a little bit of a dependence, there's not some sort of exact, there's a logarithmic dependence on VBE on the current, right? As you raise this voltage, the current through the transistor is increasing, right? And its VBE is increasing because its VBE is really


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, s. And i through this transistor has two components, right? Let's call this ic. Well, ib is probably not a good name. Let's say iq. Uhm, and then, so it's ic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or IQ, I'm sorry, IQ plus IL divided by IS.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And when does it stop? Does it ever stop if I keep raising this input voltage? Does it stop at some point? Well, practically,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If my VCC, if this is driven by something that's similar to the VCC, running off of the same supply voltage, this, how high can this voltage go?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What is the highest this voltage can be if you're, if it's generated using other transistor circuitry? Let's say bipolar transistor circuitry.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or can it get pretty close but not exactly? Because whatever is driving it needs to be going all the way to VCC, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, 0.1, 0.2 volt, because it needs to saturate. So if this is Vsat below Vcc, this is probably gonna be VBE, and this is gonna be VBE below that. Right? So this can go as high as Vcc minus VBE minus Vsat. Kind of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course, if you keep driving this higher than VCC, there is a point at which you can do that, but at some point you will also forward bias this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This current source, right? Because this guy can source current, this is a good source of current, but it's not a good way for sinking current. The current is not going this way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] DC wise. So what happens is that basically you cut down the current that this was taking, the transistor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And make it less and less and you let more and more of the current to be carried by this current source. At some point this transistor will turn off. Right? Completely. The limit is that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, at that point, IL will be equal to IQ. Because this current is zero.