[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes. So on governance, the governance structure is a disaster. So the way it works today is Harvard has two principal boards. There's the board of the corporation, the so-called Fellows of Harvard. It's a board of, uh, I think 12 independent directors and the president.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, there's no shareholder vote, there's no proxy system. It's really a self-perpetuating board that effectively elects its own members. So there's, you know, once it becomes, once the balance tips politically one way or another, they can,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It can be kept that way forever. There's no kind of rebalancing system. You know, if a US corporation goes off the rails, so to speak, the shareholders can get together and vote off the directors. There's no ability to vote off the directors.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Then there's the board of overseers, which is I think 32, uh, directors. And there a few years ago, if you could put together 600 signatures, you could run for that board and put up a bunch of candidates and about five or six get elected each year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, a group did exactly that, and it was an oil and gas kind of disinvestment, uh, group. Uh, they got the signatures, a couple of them got elected, and, uh, Harvard then changed the rules. And they said, now we need 3,200 signatures. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And by the way, if, if there are these dissident directors on the board, we're only gonna allow, we're gonna cap them at five. So if three were elected in the oil and gas thing, now there are only two seats available.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then a group of former students, kind of younger alums, one of whom I knew approached me and said, look Bill, we should, we should run for the board. And they decided this pretty late.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, only a few weeks before the signatures were due and love your support. You know, I took a look at their platform. I thought it looked great. I said, look happy to support. And I posted about them, you know, did a zoom with them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they got thousands of signatures. You know, collectively the four got, whatever, 12,000 signatures or something like this. And they missed by about 10%, uh, the threshold. What did Harvard do in the middle of the election? They made it very, very difficult to sign up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, for a vote and it just makes them look terrible. And they've got now thousands of alums, uh, upset that, and again, this wasn't an election. It was just to put the names on the slate. So the only candidates on the slate are the ones selected by the, you know, the existing members. And so it's, it's, uh, businesses fail because of governance failures.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was like, how can this be? October 7th, the event that woke me up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, Israel had not even mounted a defense at this point, and there were still terrorists running around in the southern part of Israel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, 34 Harvard student organizations signed this letter, and I'm like, what is going on? You know, WTF, right? And, uh, and that's when I went up on campus, and I started talking to the faculty, and that's when I started hearing about, actually Bill, it's, it's this DEI ideology. I'm like, what?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like diversity, equity, inclusion, you know, I, you know, obviously I'm familiar with these words and, and, you know, I see this in the corporate context. And they say, yeah, and they started talking to me about this oppressor oppressed framework, uh, which is effectively taught


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On campus and represents the backdrop for many of the courses that are offered and in the various, uh.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some of the studies and other degree offerings. I'm like, I had not even heard of this and I'm a pretty aware person.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but I was completely unaware. And basically they're like, look, Israel is deemed an oppressor. And the Palestinians are deemed the oppressed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you take the side of the oppressed and any acts of the oppressed to dislodge the oppressor, regardless of how vile or barbaric or okay. I'm like, okay, this is a super dangerous ideology.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so I, I wrote a like questioning post about this, like, here's what I'm hearing. You know, my, is this right? Then I had someone, a friend of mine sent me, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Christopher Rufo's book, America's Cultural Revolution, which is sort of a sociological study of the origins of the DEI movement and critical race theory.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, I found it actually one of the more important books I've read and uh, also found it quite concerning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and really the, it's sort of a, ultimately DEI comes out of a, uh, kind of a Marxist, uh, socialist backdrop way to look at the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so I think there are a lot of issues with it, but unfortunately it's advancing, I ultimately concluded.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So basically, what Rufo argues is that the Black Power movement of the 60s really failed. It was a very violent movement and many of the protagonists ended up in jail. And, uh, out of that movement, a number of, uh, kind of thought leaders


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This guy named Marquees, uh, and others.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Build this framework, kind of an approach, to look if we're going to be successful. Can't be a violent movement, number one. Number two, we need to infiltrate, if you will, the universities.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we need to, uh, become part of the faculty. And we need to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Teach the students and then once we take over the universities with this ideology, then we can go into government and then we can go into corporations and we can change the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I thought important book and the more I dug in, the more I felt there was credibility to this, not just the kind of sociological backdrop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we have a campus that's 98% non-conservative, liberal progressive, uh, that's adopted this DEI construct.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and this and that I learned from a member of the search committee for the Harvard president.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the same way this was an eye-opening event for me, it has been for a very broad range of other people. I've never gotten, you know, I mentioned general growth, I got a lot of nice letters from people for making money on a stock that went up a hundred times.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Saying, Bill, this is so important. Thanks for speaking out on this. You were saying what, you know, so many of us believe, but have been afraid to say, you know, it's a, I described it as almost a McCarthy-esque


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Kind of movement and that if you challenge the DEI construct.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People accuse you of being racist. It's happened to me already. Uh, you know, I'm perhaps, uh, you know, I'm much less vulnerable than a university professor who can get shouted off campus, cancelled. I'm sort of difficult to cancel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but that doesn't mean people aren't going to try. And uh, you know, I've been the victim of a couple of uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting articles in the last few days or at least one in particular in the Washington post written by what I thought was a well-meaning reporter, but it's just clear that, you know, I've taken on some.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let me ask, okay, how can you explore how to think when you're only shared a certain point of view, right? How can you learn about leadership?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When the, the governance and leadership of the institution is, is broken and exposure to ideas. If you're limited in the ideas that you're exposed to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I think university is at risk. I mean, the concerning thing, right, is if 34 student organizations that each have, I don't know, 30 members or maybe more, right, that's a thousand. Okay, that's a meaningful percentage of the, of the campus, perhaps.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ultimately, 10 or so of the 30 withdrew the statement once, uh, many of the members realized what they had written. So I don't think, it seems like the statement was signed by the leadership and not necessarily supported by all the various students that were, uh, were members.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is the next generation of, you know, normally if you think about, uh, I wrote my college thesis on university admissions, the reason why controlling


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, the gates of the Harvard, uh, institution. The admissions office is important. Many of these people who graduate end up with the top jobs in government.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and uh, ultimately become judges. Um, they, they're, uh, you know, permeate through society. So it really matters what they learn. And if it, if they're limited.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, it's two things. I think it's governance structure. I also think universities are selecting, they're not selecting leaders.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] University should necessarily be run by academics, right? You know, the, the, the dean of a university, uh, you know, the person who helps, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's sort of the business of the university, right? And then there's the academics of the university and having a, uh, I would argue having a business leader.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, is a much better way to run a university than picking an academic that the faculty supports because, you know, one of the things I learned about how faculty get hired at universities ultimately signed off by the board. But.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know the new faculty are chosen by each of the various departments once the departments, tip the other sort of a tipping point politically where once they tip in one direction the faculty. Recruit more people like themselves and so the departments come more and more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Progressive, if you will, with the passage of time, and they only advance candidates that match their, uh, that meet their political objectives. It's not a great way to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because biology and gender, you know, there, there are, there are faculty, there's a woman at Harvard who was literally canceled from the faculty as a member, I think she was at the med school. Uh, and she was, you know, she made the argument that there are basically, you know, two genders determined by biology. She wasn't allowed to stay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to really know, right? It's not like a provable fact. I would say at a certain point in time she lost the confidence of the faculty and that was ultimately the catalyst. And whether that was


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so Aaron Cerberium and Christopher Ruffo, one from the Free Beacon, and Chris, you know, surfaced some allegations on or identified some pleasure in the issues that I would say the initial examples were, you know, uh, use of the same words with proper attribution, some missing quote, you know, footnotes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then over time, uh, with, I guess more digging, they released, uh, I think ultimately something like 76 examples of.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What they call plagiarism in I think eight of 11 of her articles. And one of the other things that came forth here is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As president of the university, she had sort of the thinnest transcript academically of any previous president, you know, very small, relatively small body of work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then when you couple that with the amount of plagiarism that was pervasive, and then I guess some of the other examples that surfaced were not missing quotation marks where the authors of the work felt that their ideas had been stolen. And really, plagiarism is academic fraud.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so when a, you know, a professor is accused of plagiarism,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] University does sort of a deep dive. They have these administrative boards.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it can take six months, nine months, a year to evaluate, you know, uh, intent matters with this intentional theft of another person's idea. That's academic fraud or was this sloppy, you know, you missed or just humanity, right? You miss a footnote here or there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of course, the common understanding of plagiarism, if you look in the dictionary, it's about theft. Theft requires a intent.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Did the person intentionally take someone else's ideas or words? Now, if you're


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're writing a novel, right? Words matter more, right? If you're taking Shakespeare and presenting it as your own words. Uh, if you're, you know, writing about ideas,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ideas matter but you're not supposed to take someone else's words without properly acknowledging whether it's quotation marks or otherwise.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But in the context of an academic's life's work before AI, everyone's gonna have missing quotation marks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what does i remember my own thesis you know i would write i would take the book you couldn't take out a wider library so i have index cards and i write stuff on index cards and a little citation to make sure i remember decided properly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, scrambling to do your thesis, get it in on time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's the chances you forget what point what are your words versus the authors words and you forget to put quotation marks. Just the humanity you know the human.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, I think it would have sent a better message if a fail, if a leader fails as a leader.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's the reason for their resignation or dismissal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's the lesson that teaches the board about selecting the next candidate? The future of Harvard, a lot of it's going to depend on who they pick as the next.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Leader uhm, here's an interesting anecdote, uh, that I think is not surfaced publicly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, a guy named Larry Bacow was the previous president of Harvard. Larry Bacow was on the search committee. Uh, and they were looking for a new president.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what was strange was they picked an old white guy to be president of Harvard when there was, you know, a call for a more diverse president. And what I learned was Harvard actually ran a process, had a diverse new president of Harvard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And in the due diligence on that candidate shortly before the announcement of the new president.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the search has gone on long enough, they couldn't restart a search to find another candidate. So they picked Larry Bacow off the board, off the search committee to be the next president of Harvard as kind of an interim solution. And then there was that much more pressure to have a more diverse candidate.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This time around, because it was a big disappointment to the DEI office, if you will, and I would say to the community at large. Harvard, of all places, couldn't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have a, you know, uh, racially diverse present. It's not an important message.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so the strange thing is that they didn't do due diligence on President Gay and that it was a relatively quick process. Uhm, so the whole thing I think is worthy of further, you know, exploration. So this goes deeper.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, for sure. When a company fails, most people blame the CEO. I generally blame the board.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because the board's job is to make sure the right person is running the company, and if they're failing, help the person. If they can't help the person, make a change.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's not what's happened here. The board's hand was sort of forced from the outside, whereas they should have made their own decision from the inside. Do you still love Harvard? Sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Experiences, learnings, friendships, relationships, uh, I'm very happy with my life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, Harvard was an important part of my life. I went there for both undergrad and business school. I learned a ton, met a lot of faculty, a lot from a number of my closest friends who I still really keep in touch with. I made them. So yeah, it's a great place, but it needs a reboot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, when I went to Harvard, there were 1600 people in my class. I think today's class is about the same size.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, their online education really has not sort of taken off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I heard Peter Thiel speak at one point in time and he's like, what great institution do you know that's truly great that hasn't grown in a hundred years? Right. And, uh, you know, the incentives in some sense of the alums are for it. It's a bit like a club.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're proud of the elitism of the club, you don't want any, that many new members, but the fact that the population has grown of the country is so, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Significantly, since certainly I was a student in 1984, uh, and the fact that Harvard recruits people from all over the world, it's really serving a smaller and smaller percentage of the population today. And, you know, some of our most talented and successful, uh, entrepreneurs anyway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it's a token of success that they didn't make it through their undergraduate years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, she's the most beautiful person I've ever met. And I mean that from like the center of her soul. Uh, she's the most caring, warm, considerate, you know, thoughtful, uh, person I've ever met. And uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she couples those remarkable qualities with brilliance, incredible creativity, beauty, elegance, grace. Uhm, yeaah, I'm talking about my wife.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but I mean what I say, uh, she's the most remarkable person I've ever met, uh, and I've met a lot of remarkable people, and I'm incredibly fortunate to spend


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I mean, I met her at the bottom, uh, which is not a bad place to meet someone if it works out.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know we come from very similar places in the world and there are times where you feel like we've known each other for centuries.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, I met her parents for the first time, uh, you know, a long time ago, almost six years ago as well. And, uh, I knew her parents were from Eastern Europe originally. So I asked her father, like, what, you know, what city did her family come from originally.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, I called my father, uh, and asked him, you know, dad, what's, you know, grandpa Abraham, where's he, what's the name of the city? And then I put the two cities into Google maps and they were 52 miles apart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was pretty cool. Uhm, then of course at some point we did genetic testing. Make sure we weren't related. Which we were not. Uhm, but we share incredible commonality on values. We are attracted to the same kind of people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, she loves my friends, I love hers. Uh, we love doing the same kind of things. Uh, we're...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Attracted to, you know, we liked spending time the same ways, uhm, and she has.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, more emotion, uh, more elegance. Uh, she doesn't like battles, but she's very strong. Uh, but she's more sensitive than I am.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, that hasn't really been the case for a while. I've had relative peace for a long time. Cause I, as I stopped being, as I haven't had to be the kind of activist I was earlier in my career.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I think since October 7th, yes, I do feel like I've been in a war.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe Christopher Ruffo as well, or maybe Chris helped promote what Aaron and some anonymous person, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Identified, but I certainly, it was a point in time where the board had said we're 100% behind her and, uh, unanimously.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I really felt you had to go, so it didn't bother me at all that they had identified problems with her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Works, I shared, I reposted those posts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then when the board, she ultimately resigned and she got a $900,000 a year professorship continuing at Harvard, I said, look, in light of her limited academic record,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was actually a bit paranoid about that thesis I had written. I only had one academic work, but I hadn't checked it for plagiarism.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's gonna, that's gonna happen. Actually, I had a, uh, I had someone, I did not have a copy on hand, so I got a copy of my thesis and I...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I remember writing it, uh, Harvard at the time was pretty, uh, they kind of gave you a lecture about making sure you have all your footnotes in quotation marks. I learned later.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That apparently they had a copy of my thesis at the New York Public Library and a member of the media told me he was there, uh, online with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know a dozen other members of the media all trying to get a copy of my thesis to run it through some AI. They had to first do optical character recognition to convert the paper document into digital. But fortunately, through a miracle, I didn't have an issue.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, we were just at the end of a vacation for Christmas break. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I pick up the phone, it's our communication guy, Fran McGill, and he's like, Bill, uhm, Business Insider has apparently identified a number of instances of plagiarism in Nary's dissertation. Let me send you this email. He sent me the email.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They had identified four paragraphs in her 330 page dissertation where she had cited the author, but she had used


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The vast majority of the words in that those paragraphs were from the author and she should have used quotation marks. And then there was one case where she paraphrased correctly an author, but did not footnote that it was from his work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and so we were presented with this and told they're going to publish in a few hours and we're like, well, can we get to the next day? We're just on, you know, about to head home and they're like, no, we're publishing by noon. We need an answer by noon. And, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we downloaded the copy of her thesis on like the slow internet. And, uh, you know, Neri checked it out and she said, you know what? Looks like they're right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I said, look, you should just admit your mistake. And she wrote a very simple, gracious, yes, I should have used quotation marks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And on the author I failed to cite, uh, she pointed out that she cited them eight other times and wrote a several paragraph, uh, section of her thesis acknowledging


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In flight on the way home, although we didn't realize this until we got back the following day, uh, Business Insider published another article and said, Nary Oxman admits to plagiarism. Plagiarism, of course, is academic fraud.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Academic nary oxman and they use the term celebrity because there are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Limits to what, uh, legitimate media can go after, but, you know, celebrities, there's a lot more leeway in the media and what they can say, so that's why they call her a celebrity. First time ever she'd been called a celebrity.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, and they, they basically, she's admitting to academic fraud. And then they said, and then the next day,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, at 5.19pm, I remember the timeline pretty well, uh, an email was sent to Fran McGill saying, uhm, you know, we've identified, you know, two dozen other instances of plagiarism in her work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And uh, the others were mostly software, hardware, manuals for various devices or software she used in her work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most of which were in footnotes where she described a nozzle for a 3D printer or something like this. And they said we're publishing, you know, tonight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The email they sent to us was 6,900 words. It was 12 pages. It was practically indecipherable. You couldn't even read it in an hour. And we didn't have some of the documents they were referring to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm like, Nari, you know what I'm going to do? It, I think it will be useful to provide context here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm going to do a review of every MIT professor's dissertations, every published paper. AI has enabled this. Uhm, and so that was, I put out a tweet basically saying that. And we're doing a test run now, because we have to get it right. And I think it will be a useful exercise. Provide some context, if you will. And then this thing goes crazy viral. Uh, and, you know, Neri is a pretty sensitive person. Pretty emotional person. And someone who's a perfectionist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now they did say they did a thorough review of all of her work and this is what they found. I'm like, sweetheart, that's remarkable, right? 130 works, 73 of which were peer reviewed, blah, blah, blah. And she's published in nature science and all these different publications. That's actually, it's pretty good batting average, but you know, they can't, this is wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, this is not academic fraud, okay, these are inadvertent mistakes. And the Wikipedia entries, Neri actually used Wikipedia as a dictionary. This is the early days of Wikipedia. And they also referred to the MIT handbook, which has a whole section on plagiarism, academic handbook. And if you read it, which I ultimately did,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They make clear a few things. Number one, there's plagiarism, academic fraud.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And there's what they call inadvertent plagiarism, which is clerical errors where you make a mistake. And it depends on intent. And there's a link that you can go to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is a section on if you get investigated in MIT, what happens, what's the procedure, what's the initial stage, what's the investigative stage, what's the procedure if they identify it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And they make very clear that academic fraud is, and they list plagiarism, you know, research theft, a few other things, but it does not include honest errors. Honest errors are not plagiarism.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Under MIT's own policies. And in the handbook, they also have a big section on what they call common knowledge. And common knowledge depends on who you're writing your thesis for.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and so if it's a fact that is known by your audience, you're not required to quote or cite.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so all those Wikipedia entries were for things like sustainable design, computer aided design. She just took a definition from Wikipedia.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Common knowledge to her readers, no obligation under the handbook, totally exempt. On the, using the same words, she referred to like, whatever, some kind of 3D printer, she was the Stratasys 3D printer, and she quoted from the manual.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right away, Stratisys is a company you consulted for, they're very, you don't need to, that's not something, you're not stealing their ideas, you're describing a nozzle for a device you use in your work in a footnote. That's not a theft of idea. Right? And so I'm like, this is crazy. And so this has got to stop. And so I reach out to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the guy I knew was on the board of Business Insider, the chairman, and his name is going to come public shortly. I committed to that time to keep his name confidential. It's now surfaced publicly in the press. Can I just pause real quick?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Could not have said it better myself. Now obviously I'm focusing on the technical part. Right, cause you want to be...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's not just that she did nothing wrong, but they accused her of academic fraud.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They did it knowing they, they make reference to MIT's own handbook, so they had to read all the same stuff that I read in the handbook. They did that work. Then, after I, you know, escalated this thing to the, you know, Henry Blodger, the chairman of Business Insider, to the CEO of Axel Springer,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I even reached out to Henry Kravis at a certain point in time, one of the controlling shareholders of the company through KKR.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Laying out the factual errors in the article. Business Insider went public after they said Nary committed academic fraud and plagiarism and said we never, we didn't challenge any, the facts remain undisputed in the article. So, so it's basically Nary committed plagiarism, that's story one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Neri admits to plagiarism. She admits to plagiarism. She admitted to making a few clerical errors. That's the only thing she admitted to.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she graciously apologized, so they said Neri admits to plagiarism, apologizes for plagiarism, that's incredibly damning. And by the way, we're doing an investigation because we're concerned that there might have been an appropriate process.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the facts of the story have not been disputed by Nary Oxman or Bill Ackman. And that was totally false. I had done it privately, I had done it publicly, on Twitter, on X. I laid out, I have a whole tech stream, a WhatsApp stream with the CEO of the company. And they, and they double down, they double down again. And so, I don't sue people lightly. And, uh, stay tuned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, there's a step we can take prior to suing them, where we basically send them a letter demanding they make a series of corrections. That if they, if they don't make those corrections, the next step is litigation. I hope we can avoid the next step.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I'm just making sure that when we present the demand to Business Insider and also to Axel Springer, that it's incredibly clear how they defamed her, the factual mistakes in her stories.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and what they need to do to fix it. And if we can fix it there, we can move on from this episode and hopefully avoid litigation. Uhm, so that's where we are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now look, we're going to surface all this stuff publicly, ultimately.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The email was not to nary saying there was plagiarism at work. The email came from a reporter named Catherine Long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The headline was, Your Wife Committed Plagiarism. Shouldn't She Be Fired From...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] MIT. Just like you caused Claudine Gay to be fired from Harvard. It was a political.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Agenda, she doesn't like me. Okay. And she was trying to hurt me and they couldn't find pleasures in my thesis. And you know, being the subject of short being a short seller, the urban life battle went on for years.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, they tried to do everything to destroy my reputation. So they've already gone to my trash. They've already done all that work. So, uh, anything they could possibly find, you know, I've always lived a very clean life. Okay, thankfully. And if you're going to be an activist, short sell you better because they're going to find out dirt on you if it exists.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so they're like, how can we really hurt Bill? By the way, Neri had left MIT years earlier. When the reporter found out she was no longer a member of the MIT faculty, they were enraged. They didn't believe us. They made us like, you know, prove to us she's no longer on the MIT faculty because they wanted to get her fired. And by the way, Malice.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is one of the, you know, uh, important factors in determining whether someone, whether defamation has taken place. And this was a malice driven, uh, this was not about news. And the unfortunate thing about journalism is Business Insider made a fortune from this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This story was published and republished by thousands of media organizations around the world.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was the number one trending thing on Twitter for like two days. Uh, every newspaper, every, it was on the front page of every Israeli newspaper. Uh, you know, it was on the front page of the Financial Times. Okay, so this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she's building a business and you know, if, if you're CEO of a science company and you committed academic fraud, that's incredibly damaging. But I ultimately convinced her that this was good. I said, sweetheart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you're going to, it's going to be like the iPhone launch because everyone's going to be paying attention and they're going to want to see your work. And, uh, you know, that's how I try to cheer up, but I think it's true.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, she's full speed ahead in her work. She's built an amazing team. She's hired 30 scientists, uh, roboticists, people who, uh, biologists, plant specialists, material scientists.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Engineers really incredible crew, uh, she's built this 36,000 square foot lab in New York city. That's a one of a kind. It's still, you know, they're working out of it. It's still under construction while they're working out of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and so she's gonna do amazing things. But uhm, as I said, she's an extremely sensitive person. She's a perfectionist. Okay, imagine thinking that the entire world thinks you committed academic fraud. And so that was very hard for her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] She's a very positive person, but I saw her and I would say her darkest emotional period for sure. She's doing much better now. But you can kill someone. You can kill someone by destroying their reputation.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People, people commit suicide. People go into these deep dark.


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[Assistant] The problem is the defamation law in the US is so favorable to the publisher, to the media, and so unfavorable, uh, to the victim.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the incentives are all wrong. You know the when you went from paper version of journalism to digital and you could track how many people click.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and it's a medium that advertising drives the economics. And if you can show an advertiser more clicks, you can make more money.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, so a journalist is incentivized to write a story that will generate more clicks. How do you write a story that will generate more clicks? You get a billionaire guy, okay, and then you go after his wife and you make a sensationalist story and you give them no time to respond, right? You know, look at the timing here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the first story, you know, they gave us three hours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the second one, the following day, 5.19pm, the email comes in, not to Nary, not to her firm, but to my communications person, who tracks us down by 5.30, you know, 10 minutes later. And they publish their story in 92 minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is now, so for example, the Washington Post wrote a story about me a couple of days ago.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Reputation in my business is basically all you have. Uh, and as they say, you can take a lifetime to build a reputation and take five minutes to have it disappear and the media plays a very important role and they can destroy people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And you can, or I post on a topic and I get to hear the other side, you know, I read the replies, uh, and it, you know, the truth is something that people have had a lot of question about particularly in the last, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which are still not definitively answered. No counterbalance to the power of the government when the government can shut down avenues for free speech.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of government, uh, questions and investigations and, you know, even the President of the United States came out and said, look, he's worth, he needs to be investigated.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I'm getting my own version of that in terms of, uh, some negative media articles. I don't know what's next. Um, but yeah, if you stick your neck out in today's world and you, you go against the establishment or at least the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Existing, uh, administration, uh, you can find yourself, uh, in a very challenged place and that discourages people from sharing stuff. And that's why anonymous speech is important. Some of what you find on Twitter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I was interviewed by Andrew Sorkin a week after Trump won the election. Yes. And I made my case for why I thought he could be a good president.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Look, I think what I said at the time was the United States is actually a huge business and it reminds me a bit of the type of activist investments we've taken on over time where this really, really great business has kind of lost its way and with the right leadership we can fix it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you think about the business of the United States today, right, you've got $32 trillion worth of debt.


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[Assistant] Overleveraged and uh, it's highly leveraged and the leverage is only increasing. We're losing money, i.e. revenues.


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[Assistant] Uhm, our relations with, uh, our competitor nations and our friendly nations are far from ideal. And those conditions were present in 2020 as well. They're just, I would say, worse now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I said, look, it's a great thing that we have a businessman as president. And in my lifetime, it's really the first businessman as opposed to, I mean, maybe Bush to some degree was a business person. Uh, but I thought, okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I was one of the CEO to be CEO of America and now we have Trump. Look, he's got some personal qualities that seem less ideal, but he's going to be president United States. He's going to rise to the occasion. This is going to be his legacy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, he kind of woke up NATO, uh, now again, the way he did all this stuff, you can object to, um, but you know, NATO actually started spending more money on defense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I do think civility disappeared in America with Trump as president. A lot of that's his personal style. And how important is civility? I do think it's important. I do think, you know, he was attacked, uh, very aggressively by the left.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, but I'm, you know, I'm giving kind of the best of defensive Trump, you know, just, uh, you look at how he managed his team.


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[Assistant] Very few people made it through the Trump administration without getting fired or quitting. Uh, and yeah, who would say they're the greatest person in the world when he hired them and they're a total disaster when he fired them. Uh, it's not an inspiring way to be a leader and to attract really talented people.


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[Assistant] Um, but a riot that takes place in our Capitol and where police officers are killed.


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[Assistant] Or die, commit suicide, uh, cause for failure as they sought to do their job, you know, he stepped in way too late to stop that. He could have stopped it early. You know, many of his words, I think, inspired people, you know, some of whom with malintent to go in there and cause harm and literally to shut down the government. Uh, there were some evil people, unfortunately, there. So he's been a very imperfect president and also


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, support the president. I trust the people ultimately to select our next leader. You know, it's a bit like, um, who wants to be a millionaire? You know, when you go to the crowd and the crowd says a certain thing, you gotta trust the crowd. Um, but, uh, usually in who wants to be a millionaire, it's a landslide in one direction. So, you know, which.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which letter to pick? Here we had an incredibly close election, which itself is a problem. So, you know, my dream and what I, you know, I've tried a little bit, played politics in the last little period to support some alternatives to Trump so that we have a president, you know, I use the, you know, example, imagine you woke up in the morning, it's election day, whatever it is, November 4th, whatever, 20.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It shouldn't be, I'm a member of this party and I'm only gonna vote this way. I'm a member of that party and I'm gonna vote the other way and I hate the other side. And that's where we've been, unfortunately, for too long.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The problem is the party system is so screwed up and the parties are self-interested and they're, they're, they're another governance problem, right? An incentive problem. Michael Porter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Send it around on X, uh, but it explains how the, you know, the parties and the incentives of these sort of self-sustaining entities that, you know, where the people involved are not incentivized to do what's best for the country. It's a problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A honest, smart, motivated, capable, proven guy as a business leader. And I think in, uh, six, almost, you know, in his three terms in Congress, he ran, when Trump was elected, he said, you know, kids cried, his daughters cried, inspired him to run for office.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, ran in a Republican district in Minnesota for the last 60 years. Uh, was elected in the landslide, has been reelected twice, moved up the ranks in the Congress.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, uh, respected by his fellow members of Congress, advanced some important legislation during COVID, uh, on, you know, senior roles on various foreign policy committees, centrist.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I like about him is he's financially independent. He's not a billionaire, but he doesn't need the job. The party hates him now because he challenged the king.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so, uh, but he was willing to give up his political career cause what he thought was best for the country. He tried to get other people to run who were of higher profile, had more name recognition. None would. No one wants to challenge Biden.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, if they want to be, have a chance to stay in office or run in the future. Uh, but he's very principled. Uh, I think he would be a great president. Uh, but he needs, uh, his shot is Michigan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he needs to raise money in order to, he's only got a couple weeks and he's got to be on TV there, that's expensive.


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[Assistant] I'm at the top of my tennis game for sure. Maybe there's someone that would disagree with that. And by the way, the other thing to point out here is, and I have been pointing this out as have others,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he should, you know, hit the worst of his legacy is his.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, you talk to people, I was in Europe, I was in London a few days ago, and people were like, Bill, how can this guy be a president?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Being president of the United States is like some combination of wrestling, marathon running, you know, being a triathlete. I mean, you gotta be in a serious physical shape.


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[Assistant] And I, and he's got, he cannot be, and by the way, every day he waits, he's handing the election to Trump.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Because it's harder and harder for an alternative candidate to surface. Now, Dean is the only candidate left on the Democratic side that can still win delegates. He's on the ballot in 42 states. Uh, and the best way for Biden to step aside is for Dean to show well in Michigan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 100%. So if he, if what has to happen is what New Hampshire, he went from zero, uh, to 20% of the vote.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then he was on the ground in New Hampshire. And New Hampshire is one of the states where you don't need to be registered to a party to vote for the candidate. So it's like Jumple. And he got 20%. And that's with a lot of independents and Democrats voting for Haley.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so vote for Haley as an independent in Michigan, maybe throw away your vote. I think it increases the likelihood that Dean can get those independent votes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And people say he's viable. He's the only choice we have. He'll attract from the center. He'll attract from people, Republicans who won't vote for Trump, which they're a big percentage could be 60% or more. It could be 70% won't vote for Trump.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When Biden's present now, you saw his recent impromptu press conference, which he did after the special prosecutor, you know, report, basically saying the guy was way past his prime. And then he confused the president of Mexico and the president of Egypt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're very careful when they roll them out and he's scripted and he's always reading from a lectern. Imagine the care they have in exposing him.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, bad, really bad for America and I'm upset with him and upset with his family. I'm upset with his wife. This is the time where the people closest to you have to put their arms around you and say, you know, dad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know honey, you've done your thing, uh, this is gonna be your legacy and it's not gonna be a good one. Great leaders should also know when to step down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. And one of the best tests of a leader is succession planning. This is a massive failure of succession planning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] SEC doesn't allow, doesn't like us to talk about, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] New funds that were launching that we filed with the sec share but i would say i do a by the way if anyone's ever interested in finding should always read the prospectus carefully including risk factors that's very important but i like the idea of democratizing access to. Good investors.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and I think that's an interesting trend, so we want to be part of that trend. In terms of...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Financial markets, generally the economy, you know, a lot of it is going to depend upon the next leader of the country. So we're kind of right back there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, the, the leadership of the United States is important for the U.S. economy. It's important for the global economy. It's important for global peace. And we've gone through a really difficult period and it's time. We need a break.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But you know, look, I think the United States is an incredibly resilient country. We have some incredible moats among them. We have the Atlantic and the Pacific and we have, you know, peaceful neighbors to the north and the south.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're an enormously rich country. Uh, capitalism still works effectively here. Uh, I get optimistic about the world when I talk to my friends who are either venture capitalists or, uh, my hobby of backing these young entrepreneurs. I talk to a founder of a startup if you want to get optimistic about the world. So I think technology is going to save us.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, I think AI of course has its frightening, uh, Terminator-like scenarios.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I do think, you know, the, the internet revolution was, you know, had a lot of good, obviously some bad. I think the AI revolution is going to be similar, but we're at this other really interesting juncture.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, in the world, uh, you know, with, uh, technology and we're gonna have to use it for our good. Uh, on the media front, I'm happy about X and I think, uh, Elon's gonna be successful here. Uh, I think advertisers will realize it's a really good platform. The best way to reach.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On, uh, some, some ads in X, I don't remember the last time I responded to direct response advertising, you know, in terms of, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, my ambitions investment wise have always wanted to, uh, I've, I've always said I'd like to have a record as good as Warren Buffett's. The problem is each year he adds on another year. He's now in his 93rd year. So I've got 36 more years, uh, to just get where he is. And I think he's going to add a lot, a lot more years. Uh, I'm excited about seeing what Nare is going to produce.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, you know, she's building an incredible company. They're trying to solve a lot of problems with respect to products and buildings and their impact on the environment. Her vision is how do we design products that by virtue of the product's existence, the world is a better place. You know, today.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think I can envision a world in which Saudi Arabia, some of the other Gulf states come together, take over the governance and reconstruction of


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the Harvard, uh, Penn, MIT, Columbia, unfortunately other campuses is a wake up call for universities generally. Uhm, you know, people see the problems with DEI, but understand the importance of diversity and inclusion, but not as a political movement, but as a way


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, that we return to a meritocratic world where someone's background is relevant and understanding.


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[Assistant] I really hope that he gets that promotion.


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[Assistant] I really hope that he gets that promotion.


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[Assistant] I really hope that he gets that promotion.


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[Assistant] I really hope that they won't hold a grudge.


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[Assistant] I really hope that they won't hold a grudge.


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[Assistant] I really hope that they won't hold a grudge.


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[Assistant] I really hope that I have better luck this year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I really hope that I have better luck this year.


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[Assistant] I really hope that I have better luck this year.


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[Assistant] I really hope that she feels the same way about me.


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[Assistant] I really hope that she feels the same way about me.


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[Assistant] I really hope that she feels the same way about me.


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[Assistant] I really hope that we can stay friends after we graduate.


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[Assistant] I really hope that we can stay friends after we graduate.


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[Assistant] I really hope that we can stay friends after we graduate.


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[Assistant] I really hope that they have my favorite flavor of ice cream.


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[Assistant] I really hope that they have my favorite flavor of ice cream.


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[Assistant] I really hope that they have my favorite flavor of ice cream.


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[Assistant] I'm worried I will never get over this.


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[Assistant] I'm worried I will make a fool out of myself.


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[Assistant] I'm worried I will make a fool out of myself.


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[Assistant] I'm worried I will trip in front of everyone.


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[Assistant] He assured me that I was doing the right thing.


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[Assistant] He assured me that I had nothing to worry about.


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[Assistant] He assured me that he hadn't spoken to her since.


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[Assistant] He assured me that he hadn't spoken to her since.


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[Assistant] He assured me that he hadn't spoken to her since.


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[Assistant] He assured me that he would take care of any problem that arises.


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[Assistant] He assured me that he would take care of any problem that arises.


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[Assistant] He assured me that he would take care of any problem that arises.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in getting ahead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in getting ahead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time I was only interested in getting ahead.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in childish things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in childish things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in childish things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in watching K-dramas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in watching K-dramas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in watching K-dramas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in impressing my boss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time I was only interested in impressing my boss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in impressing my boss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time I was only interested in getting my revenge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time I was only interested in getting my revenge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time I was only interested in getting my revenge.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in studying anthropology.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in studying anthropology.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in studying anthropology.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the time, I was only interested in dating the most popular girl in school.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning the over is being kind to others.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is being kind to others.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is being kind to others.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is a laughing at my jokes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is a laughing at my jokes.


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[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is a laughing at my jokes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is sharing your food with me.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is sharing your food with me.


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[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is sharing your food with me.


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[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is feeding me lots of cheesecake.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is feeding me lots of cheesecake.


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[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is feeding me lots of cheesecake.


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[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is listening to me when I'm down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is listening to me when I'm down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is listening to me when I'm down.


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[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is being respectful of my boundaries.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is being respectful of my boundaries.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The secret to winning me over is being respectful of my boundaries.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should lie to them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should lie to them?


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[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should lie to them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should join her team?


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[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should join her team?


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[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should join her team?


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[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should steal their idea?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should steal their idea?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should steal their idea?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should surprise her anyway?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should surprise her anyway?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should leave the conference early?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should leave the conference early?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Are you suggesting that we should leave the conference early?


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[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining the rules again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining the rules again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining the rules again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining if you're not even listening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining if you're not even listening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining if you are not even listening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining the ins and outs of this place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining the ins and outs of this place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining the ins and outs of this place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining something you can easily look up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining something you can easily look up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not wasting my time explaining something you can easily look up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I switched teams?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I switched teams?


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[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I switched teams?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I went with her instead?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I went with her instead?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I went with her instead?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I dated your ex-boyfriend?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I had to bail on our plans?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I had to bail on our plans?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I had to bail on our plans?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I forgot about your birthday?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I forgot about your birthday?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I forgot about your birthday?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I didn't go to the party tonight?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I didn't go to the party tonight?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I didn't go to the party tonight?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I changed my mind about going on the trip?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I changed my mind about going on the trip?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would you be mad at me if I changed my mind about going on the trip?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to solve that mystery.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to solve that mystery.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to solve that mystery.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to finish the marathon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to finish the marathon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to write her last book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to write her last book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to write her last book.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to design this building.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to design this building.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to design this building.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to figure out the truth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to figure out the truth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to figure out the truth.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to come up with that idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to come up with that idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to convince him to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to convince him to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I wonder how long it took her to convince him to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a spare key to this room?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a spare key to this room?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a spare key to this room?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have the answer to our problem?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a winter coat I can borrow?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a winter coat I can borrow?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a winter coat I can borrow?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a truck we can use on Saturday?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a truck we can use on Saturday?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a truck we can use on Saturday?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a reason to steal that from you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have a reason to steal that from you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have access to this confidential information?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who else might have access to this confidential information?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's your turn to take the dog for a walk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's your turn to take the dog for a walk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's your turn to take the dog for a walk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can win that contest.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can beat me at this game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can beat me at this game.


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[Assistant] There's no way you can beat me at this game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can catch up with her now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can catch up with her now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can catch up with her now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can cook a better dish than her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can cook a better dish than her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can cook a better dish than her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can find a better deal than this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can find a better deal than this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can find a better deal than this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can make it to the airport on time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can make it to the airport on time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's no way you can make it to the airport on time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a bad mood?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such happy spirits?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such happy spirits?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such happy spirits?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a hurry to see him?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a hurry to see him?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a hurry to see him?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a depressing state?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a rush to get anywhere?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a rush to get anywhere?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a positive state of mind?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a positive state of mind?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Why are you always in such a positive state of mind?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was going to win?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was going to win?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was going to win?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he had talked with her?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he had talked with her?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he had talked with her?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was on his way back?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was on his way back?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was on his way back?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was allergic to crawfish?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was allergic to crawfish?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was allergic to crawfish?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he wouldn't be upset with us?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he wouldn't be upset with us?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he wouldn't be upset with us?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was planning to betray you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was planning to betray you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How did you know that he was planning to betray you?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I should probably start by giving some of the backstory around, you know, these coins and this concept of giving me coins. Uh, so, you know, first of all, Shiba Inu, as you said, is this kind of knockoff of Dogecoin, right? And Dogecoin was this


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Initial kind of fun coin that was created back, I think around 2014 or so. And it was just created by Jackson Palmer and I put it out as a joke for a couple of hours and a community formed around it. And.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At the beginning, people didn't take it very seriously. I actually remember putting about $25,000 into Doge sometime around 2016 and I just remember, uh, thinking to myself, like, okay,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How am I going to explain to my mom that I just invested $25,000 into dog coins? Like what even are dog coins? Like the only interesting thing about this coin is that there's, you know, a logo of a dog somewhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but you know, of course that ended up being one of the best investments I've ever made. And, uh, it did really well. And then at the end of, uh, 2020, Elon Musk, of course, started talking about Dogecoin and the market cap just like shot up to about $50 billion.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Actually, it shot up multiple times, right? Like the first time it went up from about 0.8 cents to about like 7 cents. And this just happened all in one day. And I remember, um, this was when I was still in Singapore in the middle of, uh, COVID and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I saw that the price just went up by a thousand percent and I was like, oh my God, my Doge is worth like a lot. And so I immediately called up some of my friends and told them to like drop everything in scramble and I just sold half the Doge and I got $4.3 million donated the proceeds to give directly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And a few hours after I did this, the price dropped back down from about seven cents to four cents, right? So I managed to sell the Doge at the top and I remember just feeling like I was.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Such an amazing trader, but then of course, you know, the price went up from four cents then to seven and then 50 and just like doge becoming this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Big phenomenon where there's even a lot of people that have heard of Doge that have not heard of Ethereum is just like something even I wasn't predicting, right? And so after that, of course, you know, we have Doge and then


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People are thinking, well, you know, if the leading dog token is worth 50 billion dollars, then surely the second largest dog token deserves, you know, at least seven or eight billion, right? I feel like that's kind of what the mindset of these Shiba people is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so then of course they did this other gimmick, right, where they gave me half the Shiba token supply.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, they were actually not the first project to do this. So around the end of 2020, there was this weird project called Teller. It's like T-E-L-L-O-R. I think they're a chain link competitor or something like this, but I remember they just like dumped


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, the Shiba people were more clever. The Shiba people instead of dumping to that wallet, they dumped to my cold wallet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, in a cryptocurrency, right, there's this concept of like cold wallets and hot wallets. Basically, like the thing that actually owns your money is like this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 80 digit number called a private key, right? And a hot wallet is when that private key is just stored in memory on your computer, on your phone, really easy to access.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cold wallet means it's either written down on a piece of paper or it's on a computer that's just never accessed the internet, right? So cold is very inconvenient, but cold is also much more secure, right? Because even if that computer has some viruses on it, like it's


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like airgapped, it's not actually going to be able to upload it. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This cold wallet, and like, all the money's out of the cold wallet, so it's safe for me to talk about my setup now, right? But it was a laptop that was sitting in Canada, and I also had, uhm, two pieces of paper where I wrote down two numbers on those two pieces of paper. One was with me, one was in Canada, and if you add those two numbers together, you get the private key.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, because of COVID travel restrictions, and you know, this is in this cold wall, it's in Canada, like it's very difficult for me to uhm, actually access it, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm not sure if they knew this, maybe they just got lucky, but basically they, you know, sent a lot of these dog tokens into this wallet where I, it was very difficult for me to access it. But then I saw these dog tokens, I saw more and more people talking about them, and then at some point I realized,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I realized that like, hey, these things are worth billions of dollars, and like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, there's lots of really good things that you can do with that amount of money and it would actually be a waste to just like see it go. So I made the decision that like I would actually power through and figure out how to like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Enter that into a fresh laptop that I bought from target. Then I put in my other number on my piece of paper, added the two numbers together on the computer. There's the key. And.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most of it by myself, so I need- Because you have to keep it secret. Right, and I needed my family to uhm, actually like go and read the, the number on their piece of paper, and then I uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In my new multisig wallet, like there's other people that are signatories, uhm, but, you know, I'm obviously not going to reveal any details beyond that. So, I did this, right, and I actually managed to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have any idea of how much you would be able to get, right? Cause like on paper, the dog tokens are $7 billion, but like in reality, it's a very liquid market, you know, are you going to crash it by, uh, after you sell 1 million worth, you're going to crash it after 10 million. Are you going to, uh, might you actually be able to get like an entire 200 million? I had no idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, so I definitely was just over the mindset like, okay, I mean, I'll sell a bit, maybe I get some ETH and then, you know, donated some ETH to give well, donated some to other groups and then, okay, have some dog tokens. Like I don't have an easy ability to sell more myself, but then I'll just like give them to these groups and like, you know, hopefully they'll do good things with them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Um, it was actually, um, I actually donated at 20% and dumped 80%. Um, yeaah, so the COVID, the COVID, um, India group got one batch and then there's another group that got another batch. And I don't want to say who they are because I think they want to announce themselves at some point. Yeah, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, you, you can see the fact that these transactions were made on the blockchain. Uhm, but, I don't know what else to say.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just very interesting and unexpected and just an insanely crazy situation. It's been a couple weeks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm sure there's some things that I probably could have done better. Like, I was actually talking to some of these charities and I was impressed by just how much money they managed to get out of selling some of these coins. So I probably could have done better by just like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Talking more with the traders and actually ensuring that, you know, that they can do a better job of maximizing the value of uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of, uh, all of them, but like, you know, it was a very stressful time and I did have to act quickly, like I did manage to, you know, make a lot of the donations before, like, a few days before the great crypto crash happened. Uh, so, it was, and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's difficult to, like, obviously there's parallel universes in which I did better, but at the same time, there's also lots of parallel universes where because I hesitated more and tried to spend more time thinking I missed the opportunity, uh, so, you know, on that it's like a luck of the draw and I'm just, you know, happy that, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Everything was able to turn out as well as it did.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was stressful, right? I think, well, one of the really stressful parts was just the fact that I had to basically move all of my funds, you know, including the 325,000 ether from one cold wallet into another hot wallet, or sorry, into another multi-sig wallet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and, you know, maybe the multisig wallet had a bug in it, maybe there's like some mistake I'll make in the middle that causes the funds to get lost, like, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That part was stressful, and I was definitely stressing out for two days. I mean, triple-checking the new wallet, I even did a bit of an audit of the code myself. I wrote my own JavaScript to dap to make confirmations because gnosis-safe didn't work with the status wallet well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There is def- that whole thing was definitely a bit of a marathon. Uhm, I was also a kind of-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Definitely a bit worried about or uncertain, I guess, how the public and, you know, including the coin communities would perceive the whole thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I was actually impressed, like I, yeah, for every poster that was saying, like, no, you know, why, yeah, why did Vitalik, like, rug pull on us? He was supposed to, his wallet was supposed to be a burn address, you know, there's like 10 people that are like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, you know, I thought I was just in this because it's a fun pyramid gambling thing, but instead I ended up being part of this great public good thing for humanity, and that's like even more amazing. So, the amount of that that I got was very...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Impressive. So, you know, all in all, I think the dog people did great. The dog people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think a big one for me is just this idea that crypto isn't just an opportunity to give people slightly better ways to save value in all of these things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's something that I've been interested in for a long time. I actually even have this article in Bitcoin Magazine back in 2014 where I basically suggested this idea that, you know, you would have coins that represent causes and like people would just like buy and accept those coins because they support those causes. So I think it's called


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Interesting to kind of see becoming real and like in general, I think, you know, public goods are very important and on the internet, public goods are


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even more important, right? Like every single Lex Friedman podcast is just on YouTube and no, anyone can go and see it. Like there's no way for you to like.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly. One of the kind of philosophical things that I hope to achieve is kind of decouple the concept of public goods, which are incredibly important and are the lifeblood of modern civilization, from the idea that there is


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is or can be one central organization that represents the public and like perfectly understands and can impose their idea of what is the good, right? Like it's.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When people talk about public goods, like, it just often comes with this baggage of, uh, you know, either centralization or conformism. And I think, like, it doesn't have to, right? Like, uh, often the most important public goods are the ones that are created by, you know, the crazy individualists that disagree with everyone else. Uh, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm trying to make this kind of synthesis where, you know, you combine the values of decentralization and the values of open source, but


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're not naive about it and like, you know, you realize, uhm, that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Get all of the good things without the bad things. To me that's a yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A big part of sort of what my grand experiment in crypto is about. And we are doing things in different kinds of things for this, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, the get coin grants quadratic funding in the Ethereum ecosystem. Um, there's obviously these, uh, dog coins that just happens, like, I guess accidentally. Um, there's other projects, um, that,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like for example, you know, Uniswap has uhm, their Uniswap DAO that just has a huge amount of funding. And like we haven't seen yet how that's going to be deployed, but you know, it could be potentially deployed to do lots of really good and amazing things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Definitely some specific things that are, uhm, that are social causes, uhm, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just, you know, the fact of creating an open financial system that anyone can participate in no matter where they are in the world, that's a social cause. Uhm, just, you know, giving people the ability to organize and create projects even if it's five people in five different countries. I think that kind of inclusiveness, I think that's a social cause and it's a core, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A core crypto value, um, but then at the same time, like the other important and if part of the magic of Ethereum that you have to balance that against is that it is also this open platform where ultimately, you know, the thing that go, the things that are on Ethereum is just the things that the community makes of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Blockchain continues to prosper and we figure out scalability so that people can actually start doing things on block. All of the amazing use cases that people have been talking about instead of today where a lot of the great stuff gets priced out because transaction fees are at 5 to 10 dollars and then we see


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of different, um, amazing applications happening on blockchains. You know, it could be like, DAOs creating new ways for people to interact and organize with each other, new ways for artists to get funded and just all sorts of these amazing things. And there's just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Enough public support and just enough people that see that, you know, look, crypto is clearly doing a lot of good things. And, you know, there are definitely areas where there's tensions, but in those


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That would disappear as a revenue stream if theoretically corporations just all get replaced by DAOs, but, I dunno, like maybe there's some other creative way by which, I dunno, DAO,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like DAOs themselves can kind of be, you know, have some kind of encoded governance that ensures that they...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have at least some of us, some kind of bias towards serving the global public good.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, uh, you know, maybe it does enough of the, uh, Daoist can do enough of that, that people are happy with it. And, and, you know, there are going to be things that people are unhappy about. There's always going to be the people that, you know, wants to surveil everyone, but if,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] On the, the kind of effect of crypto from just empowering people is greater than that and greater than that in a way that people can just easily see, then, you know, that would be a good scenario, right? And we'll just.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Suddenly, you know, flipping and going into moral panic mode and just, you know, oh my god, like this technology is used by like, you know, insert bad group over the day. And then,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think governments have the ability to ban crypto to the extent of just completely, like, preventing blockchains from existing, but they definitely have the ability to really marginalize it, right? Like, if you just ban all exchanges, like, and ban all links from the fiat ecosystem to crypto, and, you know, you ban all kind of mainstream employers from,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Accepting we're paying in cryptocurrency, then like, you can, you can successfully, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's always that possibility, but like at the same time, I think if you look at, you know, the world as a whole and like the way all the other technological trends are going, like, you know, in-person surveillance is just going up every year.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like, if you commit a crime in, you know, meat space, it's getting harder and harder to get away with it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, if he wants to do something, and this is something that's just like happening as a result of, you know, just better technology information and information transparency, like a lot of it's hard to prevent even if you really tried.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The world where, like, things go dark to such an extent, you know, as the, the one


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The police hawks sometimes like to say uhm, to such an extent that like, you know, oh my god, the criminals are committing crimes with impunity and we can't see anything, like that just seems unlikely. Uhm, but, you know, on the other hand, like the world, uh, where they're just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, is no privacy, for example, or uhm, the world where there just like, is no ability to kind of act outside of the confines of, you know, mainstream institutions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's something that's more realistic and that seems like something that could lead to a lot of kind of a lot of scary things, right? And like even from a government's point of view, right? Like I think governments over the last few years, a lot of them, they're very worried about sovereignty. You know, they're worried about like if they're,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm a country is economy is, you know, social environments are just completely dependent on basically foreign tech companies controlled by foreign governments. Like, you know, governments are not on team government, right? That's like, you know, the Indian government is on, you know, team India, you know, the Russian government is on team Russia and so forth. Right. So like, you know, they don't want the.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Without things like crypto, uh, kind of acting outside of institutions becomes too impossi- and I don't even necessarily mean outside of governments, even just, you know, outside of corporations, like becomes too impossible and there's just like terrible things that come as a result.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I mean if things going in the other direction, like, it obviously is a risk, but at the same time I think in the long term a crypto can potentially even like offer defenses as much as attacks against that sort of thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The other thing to keep in mind of course is that the set of like the kinds of things that just like payment processors as companies try to restrict people you from is much larger than the set of things that's illegal.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like part of that is because they want to be super conservative and like the more layers you have the more they're like conservative because they're scared of what the layer below them will do to them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, sometimes they have their own, you know, moral opinions of various kinds. You know, they go after lots of people, right? Like they make life really hard for, you know, like sex workers, for example, psychedelics, as you mentioned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like a lot of activity, even including stuff that is totally legal, that just, you know, there's this like, you know, shadow, like PayPal credit card government or whatever you want to call it. And that makes it just hard to participate in this stuff. So I think like reducing the number of intermediaries is definitely normally a good thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Sure, so I think recently we've actually been kind of de-emphasizing the ETH 2.0 branding, I guess. So the reason behind that was that originally we envisioned something more like a big grand event where, you know, all the good things would happen at the same time and it would be a new blockchain.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it would be a new protocol and people would have to take a lot of effort to migrate over.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But later we've slowly changed the roadmap over to something that's much more incremental.