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[Assistant] After that we got Alexa Bliss vs Asuka, and they had a babyface-babyface match where they sort of like shook hands before. But then yea, Control, if we're calling them that, ran down and sort of beat them up. And Belair came down to even the odds.


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[Assistant] Straight up singles. Yeah, a lot of fresh matches on this show. Felt really good. Uh, then we got the second US title qualifier. Then Edge came in.


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[Assistant] With Metalingus? With Metalingus, the old entrance music was back. He got a huge pop.


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[Assistant] Uhm, and he just really short concise promo, about two minutes in the ring, said I'm gonna kill what I created.


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[Assistant] Perfect. Perfect. This is like the Dream Macintyre promo at Summerslam.


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[Assistant] And it's over before I have a chance to get bored with it. There was no like run in, Finn Balor didn't come out and go, well, here's what I have to say to you and Edge has to stand there like a lemon


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[Assistant] Uh, Mysterio's cut a promo on the Usos backstage, then we got Belair vs Eosky.


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[Assistant] And they sort of had an interview backstage.


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[Assistant] I hope the, you know, I think it's Sarah Schreiber, the interviewer, despite Control being quite a horrid faction on this episode, say, my guests at this time. I hope the interviewers get the show a bit more moral. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Uhm, this match was really good. It went 15, almost 20 minutes and the whole time, like you, I'm just there being like,


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[Assistant] This is Io's first match on the main roster. She's gonna lose. It's against Bel Air.


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[Assistant] Please do not have her lose. Like that's the worst thing. And I was like, okay, well then don't, also don't do a DQ. Don't do a DQ either.


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[Assistant] Well I don't mind that they came out, I think that makes sense. And as long as it's stuff outside the ring, that's just an extra layer of injury.


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[Assistant] So I, uhm, if, if I'm gonna be fair to WWE and hold it to this new higher standard,


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[Assistant] I've gotta also critique the stuff that I think was a mistake, and I thought this was a mistake.


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[Assistant] Uhm, because you're delivering like a 15 minute really good match and it ends in a crappy


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's bad booking. Because you can't think of a way to beat one of them and you don't want to beat one of them. You booked a match where you cut you into a corner.


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[Assistant] You've done it here. So all you have to do, because I think Belair could totally have taken the loss, have the brawl on the outside, work between Asuka, Bliss, Bailey, Kai. Um, Bailey manages to just lamp Belair while the referee's distracted, and Sky moonsault to win.


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[Assistant] And then Sky gets so much off of that, beating Belair in her first match, Belair is enormously protected. I don't think it would harm her one iota to take a loss and it would really help elevate this new start.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but still, you don't want any of them lose. It's not just an individual's main roster debut, it's the faction. But the crowd liked it, the brawl was enough to kind of distract from being


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[Assistant] Essentially blue-balled. And overall, it was just such a great presentation of the women's division.


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[Assistant] All that focus, night long storyline, everyone feels like a star.


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[Assistant] Then we got AJ Ciampa, which we've covered. And the main event, with her already, was the Usos vs the Mysterios. The Usos had arrived earlier in the night.


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[Assistant] And this was a really fun, fast-paced main event. Ray was just


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[Assistant] So quick at the beginning, when about 10 minutes, and I cannot believe this.


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[Assistant] I genuinely bought into a near fall from Dominik.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but the Usos won in the end, 1D on Dominic, and then Judgment Day very quickly ran in and beat up.


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[Assistant] the mysterious and Edge made the save but accidentally speared Dom when Rhea Ripley pushed him.


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[Assistant] I like all that. Have you, and I can't believe, you know, like last year when they did the Edge, was that this year? It was this year, wasn't it? The Royal Rumble was the blow off to the Ms. Marie stuff. Yea, the Edge, Phoenix stuff.


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[Assistant] Uh, hate that. I was like, make Edge do something serious. But this, this sounds good.


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[Assistant] Have you seen the thirstiness on Twitter? For who? For Rhea Ripley.


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[Assistant] There seems to be this, uh, people like the idea about being domed. And Dominic is also kind of called Dom.


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[Assistant] Uhm, but yea, a lot, a lot of people, and I think apparently Ripley is leaning into this idea on Twitter because she's sort of posted that shot of her


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[Assistant] What's the word? It is called, you know, like the choke with the legs. Is it a scissor choke?


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[Assistant] But it's like a, it's like a joke on Dominic, she posted that video.


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[Assistant] They called her a triangle. And she was like.


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[Assistant] Right, so not the statement show that was kind of maybe speculated on, but I think this was like a really good sign of what's to come.


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[Assistant] Yeah, for three hours, that's quite something. Let's get into your, oh, what did you give it out of five? I would have given it a four. Yeah, I gave it 80%.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I would say. We just missed one up top. Oh, yes.


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[Assistant] Yeah, you could beat Asuka, couldn't you? But I think they are building up an Asuka-Sky match. I heard that they didn't actually really interact in that brawl, which is very mouthful.


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[Assistant] Imagine this isn't my job. I work somewhere else. I never came onto WrestleTalk.


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[Assistant] This would have been one of those moments where I would have been like, okay, I'm going to check it out. And I think I would have really enjoyed it.


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[Assistant] Well that's a lovely high note to end this optimistic podcast on. Congratulations LJ Mickey, start a chant, well done Mickey, in the comments. But for now that's all we've got time for, thanks for joining us today and for your lovely alt chat. I've been Oli Davis, that's been Randy Ernie Datson, Jam That Jam.


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[Assistant] The Terian says he took the car keys and hopped into his grandmother's Dodge Durango.


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[Assistant] He sighed. Well, I'm a lightie, sassnach. I considered it.


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[Assistant] The first stripes were still so raw on my back I could scarce bear a shirt, and I felt giddy whenever I stood up. The thought of going through that again.


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[Assistant] But I rather thought being buggered would at least be a bit less painful. Men have died under the lash sometimes, Sassenach. And from the look on his face,


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[Assistant] I thought he meant me to be one of them, were that my choice. He sighed again. But, well, I could still feel my father's kiss on my cheek. And thought of what he'd say and, well, I couldn't have do it, that's all. I didn't stop to think what my death might mean to my father. He snorted as though finding something faintly amusing.


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[Assistant] Then too, I thought. The man's already raped my sister. Damned if he'll have me too. I didn't find this amusing.


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[Assistant] I took what little courage I had left by then and said no. I said it loud too.


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[Assistant] And added whatever filthy names I could think of to call him, all at the top of my lungs. He grimaced. I was afraid I'd change my mind if I thought about it.


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[Assistant] Though I dinna suppose, he added thoughtfully, that there's any really tactful way to refuse an offer like that. No, I agreed dryly. I don't suppose he'd have been pleased, no matter what you said. He wasn't. He backhanded me across the mouth to shut me up. I fell down. I was still a bit weak. And he stood over me, just staring down at me. I'd better sense than to try and get up.


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[Assistant] So I just lay there until he called the soldiers to take me back to my cell. He shook his head. He did not change expression at all. Just said as I left, I'll see you on Friday.


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[Assistant] To await Friday's reckoning with no distractions saved the daily visit of the garrison's physician who came to dress his back. He wasn't much of a doctor, Jamie said, but he was kindly enough.


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[Assistant] The second day he came, along with a goose crease and charcoal,


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[Assistant] He brought me a small Bible that belonged to a prisoner who'd died.


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[Assistant] Said he understood I was a peapist, and whether I found the word of God any comfort or not, at least I could compare my troubles with Jubes. He laughed. Oddly enough, it was some comfort.


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[Assistant] Our Lord had to put up with being scourged too, and I could reflect that at least I was not going to be hauled out and crucified afterward. On the other hand, he said judiciously,


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[Assistant] Our Lord wasn't a force to listen to indecent proposals from Pontius Pilate either.


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[Assistant] I'm a method actor, so I have to find that part of me that's in love with you, so that I can be in love with you on the show.


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[Assistant] I mean, just during the time of shooting, like, for six months.


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[Assistant] Is it Ted, the grip? What if I became a grip, and I was more Ted-like? Then would you be interested?


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[Assistant] It would seem to me it would remind you of everything because that's where you were with your parents.


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[Assistant] What do you mean do I understand? Did they say when she didn't come back she was...


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[Assistant] I know you're not a psychologist or a psychiatrist.


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[Assistant] But what does that do and how do you think that might be reflected?


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[Assistant] When did you say, I wanna be a, I wanna be in the movies, I wanna be an actor or a director?


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[Assistant] Can you tell me just how all of this shape you? This experience?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can't look back and say there is a direct connection between that, losing my mother, experiencing this sense of, of, uh,


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[Assistant] And, and all that you just described and know how it's manifest in the man you are.


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[Assistant] They done away in Chinatown with some way, you're in part of it.


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[Assistant] If someone said, for example, that, as someone like to speculate, Roman has loved women so much because he lost his mother, you would say,


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[Assistant] So, so you just say that doesn't ring true to me.


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[Assistant] But it was poorly received in Poland by the officials.


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[Assistant] Yeah. She's following your lead.


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[Assistant] Then in 69, you were in Rome when the Manson murder took place?


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[Assistant] You've talked about this before and I don't want to go into it at length, but it just...


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[Assistant] Have you talked to your children about it? No, no, of course not. What's the point?


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[Assistant] Here's one point. A man has the most, the most awful tragedy come to his life.


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[Assistant] And over the next four or five years, survive, come to grips with it, and make what many people consider to be a American classic Chinatown.


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[Assistant] Mother. Holocaust. Poland.


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[Assistant] Than this. And yet you survive. You keep your sanity.


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[Assistant] So if I want to know the mind and of, of you.


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[Assistant] Probably, or maybe you would, uh,


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[Assistant] Or at least it's there to understand. I may not get it, but it's there to understand.


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[Assistant] As far as I'm concerned, it was another movie. It's the best movie you've ever made by far. Nothing else is close.


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[Assistant] Of a man who finds lost volumes of books in search of two books about the devil.


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[Assistant] I'm interested in... I know you are, but I'm not. Why you've made the choi- well, it's not your program. I'm interested in why you've made the choices you have.


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[Assistant] I'm interested in why with you, uhm, haven't made a deal to come back to the United States.


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[Assistant] Well, don't you try to avoid unpleasantness? Of course you do, but at some cost. Lots of people, including your friends, including people, as you said, the movie community is dictated by Hollywood.


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[Assistant] Who believe that you would only be able to achieve your potential.


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[Assistant] As a filmmaker, your profession and craft of choice, if you had


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[Assistant] And that was in your hands, not somebody else's hands.


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[Assistant] All that you are, a talented, you know, a survivor, tough, uh, loving, and at the same time, this thing happened that caused you to flee the country, of which the person


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[Assistant] Young woman involved has later said it was not what they said it was. It was.


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[Assistant] Exactly right. She would like you to come and get it over with, but you are not doing it. You aren't. And I don't believe that you will. Unless you can tell me that this is something you want to do.


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[Assistant] And that just is something you're willing to pay the price. And the fact that you're going to have to walk through a media maelstrom does not seem to me to be.


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[Assistant] Too high a mountain to climb. Tell me what you think.


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[Assistant] You're not saying to me, are you, that somehow this role of a fugitive is...


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[Assistant] You're comfortable with and you like it. I mean, I have friends who say, I think of myself as an outlaw and I like that.


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[Assistant] Maybe we can get to something here. The Academy of Beaux-Arts is one of the highest honors it can come to.


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[Assistant] It is a select group of people. You were inducted.


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[Assistant] On the outside looking in, too, I have this rather very comfortable existence here. Not rather.


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[Assistant] Very comfortable existence. I am honored in my place of residence, Paris, France.


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[Assistant] And for those of you who think that I should go through the fire, whatever it might be, in order to return to the United States, don't understand the toll it will take on my own psyche, but more importantly,


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[Assistant] On my new family, which came late in life for me and my children.


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[Assistant] And whatever is at the other side of the river is not worth crossing. It's more or less this.


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[Assistant] Tell me what you tell your children when they grow up and say, Daddy, what happened in America that made them


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[Assistant] What will you say when they say, Daddy, did you rape a 13-year-old? Did you have sex with a 13-year-old? Did you do that with someone? When your daughter's 13 years old, if she comes to you and she's read this story somewhere...


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[Assistant] I understand that and we add to that though. I don't believe that. I believe what you say. Your wife says about you.


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[Assistant] The reason I love him so much in part is because I know he will always be there for me, I know he will never lie to me, I know he will always protect me. That could almost be what your children would say too.


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[Assistant] You should not allow the fear of the media. You should be protective of your children, clearly. And that's your choice. That's your responsibility.


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[Assistant] I know, I hate to see that the fear of the media trial fire prevents someone from


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[Assistant] Closing the circle and having an opportunity.


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[Assistant] It's almost incomprehensible to me you can do that. Because it seems to me that you go from the forest to the trees rather than from the trees to the forest. That's exactly what it is. You know, you have to have the overall concept.


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[Assistant] What do you regret about, if you're, if, if Polanski is about two things, love and work, yes? Your life and your passions.


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[Assistant] It's great to see you in Paris. The Ninth Gate opens in New York and throughout America soon. Thank you very much.


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[Assistant] Perhaps, perhaps. Thank you for joining us. See you next time.


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[Assistant] Welcome back to Game Theory 101, I'm William Spaniel. Today's topic is The Finitely Repeated Prisoner's Dilemma.


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[Assistant] We're beginning our unit on repeated games, and this is an important one. A lot of interactions don't just take place once. Rather, they recur with the same people over and over again.


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[Assistant] This unit is going to address how strategies can evolve under those circumstances. And we're beginning with a repeated prisoner's dilemma because that's a popular one.


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[Assistant] To motivate this further, let's think about some of the things we already know about the prisoner's dilemma. We know that in a one-shot prisoner's dilemma, the only outcome we can get in that is mutual defection.


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[Assistant] Defection strictly dominates cooperation for each player, so as a result, the unique Nash equilibrium of the game is for both players to defect.


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[Assistant] If we're thinking about this as a repeated game, we already know something about a repeated prisoner's dilemma.


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[Assistant] You might recall from our unit on extensive form games that in repeated games, games with stages, playing a Nash equilibrium in each stage, in each period, is a sub-game perfect equilibrium.


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[Assistant] So if we were to play a prisoner's dilemma over and over and over again, we know from this theorem that it is an equilibrium for both players to defect in each period.


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[Assistant] But we also know that for some extensive form games, cooperation is possible.


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[Assistant] Even if cooperation is not possible in the stage game.


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[Assistant] And so if you combine all of this together, we have some lingering questions here. First, is it possible to play cooperation contingent strategies in a repeated prisoner's dilemma?


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[Assistant] That is, can we play a strategy that takes the form of, hey, I'm gonna cooperate for now, and please be nice to me, and if you're nice to me, I'm going to cooperate later for you to reward you for that cooperative behavior that you gave me. But if you do something nasty to me, I'm going to defect on you.


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[Assistant] This is important because many real-world interactions look like a prisoner's dilemma, and it says something pretty nice if we can get ourselves out of these bad situations where we're getting mutual defection.


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[Assistant] Defection is inefficient, and so if we can resolve defection, these inefficient outcomes, by having cooperative strategies recurring through time in a repeated prisoner's dilemma, in a repeated game's framework, well that might be a way to avoid that inefficiency and move ourselves into a world that is efficient.


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[Assistant] But if the answer to that first question is yes, we have a follow-up question to that. How many stages are necessary?


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[Assistant] We know that we can't get cooperation to work in a one-shot game. Can it work in a two-shot game?


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[Assistant] Three stages, five stages, a hundred stages, how many stages do we need to be able to achieve cooperation? That's what we're addressing right now. So let's go to the model.


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[Assistant] The model is simple. We have two players playing a simultaneous move prisoner's dilemma in each and every stage.


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[Assistant] After every stage, all information about the moves from previous stages is revealed.


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[Assistant] So in stage one, we choose whether to cooperate or defect, and then before we move in stage two, we know what the other person has done to us before.


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[Assistant] For the purposes of us solving this, we're going to start simple. We're going to think about what happens in a game with two total stages, and we'll go from there.


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[Assistant] Just so we're on the same page, this is a Prisoner's Dilemma. As it turns out, we don't need to have specific payoffs in order to be able to solve these repeated Prisoner's Dilemmas of finite length. But we're gonna be working with this later on in this unit as well when we get to games of infinite length, so there it is for your reference.


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[Assistant] Let's go ahead and solve this game with just two periods, though. How do we do that?


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[Assistant] It's just like before. When we're looking at subgame perfect equilibria, the best way of going about that is to work backward. We start with stage 2, and therefore move to stage 1. Well, what's going to happen in stage 2? We actually have another theorem for that. You might recall again from our unit on extensive form games,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's think about why that's the case. If you're forgetting about this, you can go back to the video on that in the unit on Extensive Form Games, but as quick review, if we're in the final stage of a game,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we're playing a bunch of games over again, over and over and over again, and we finally get to the last one. Everything that has happened before.


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[Assistant] Is locked in. We've already accumulated payoffs from all of the previous stages of the game, so we can't change those. We can only maximize our payoffs for the final period.


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[Assistant] And the way we do that in these strategically interdependent environments is to play Nash equilibria.


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[Assistant] So Nash equilibria are the only sets of strategies that maximize these payoffs for the final period. So that's why in a final stage of a game, players must be playing a Nash equilibria.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, in a prisoner's dilemma, we know that there is a single, unique equilibrium.


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[Assistant] An ash equilibrium in the stage game. And that's mutual defection.


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[Assistant] So it must be the case in the second stage that both players defect. That comes entirely from that theorem.


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[Assistant] Alright, we know what happens in stage 2, what happens in stage 1. Unfortunately, the news here is bad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Regardless of what happens in stage one, whether I cooperate with you or I defect on you, I can't change what we're going to be doing in the second stage. In that last stage, we need to be maximizing, and the only way we can do that is by defecting. So even if I cooperate today,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You're going to defect on me tomorrow. I have no incentive to try to sway you for the second stage. I can't do it. It's not possible.


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[Assistant] I can't change my payoff for stage 2. It's locked in. It's going to happen. We're both going to defect. So the best I can do for myself is to maximize my payoff for stage 1.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But the way I go about doing that, and this is the same thing for you as well if we're thinking about the other player, is to defect. So that means that the result of a two-stage prisoner's dilemma is mutual defection in each stage. We can't get cooperation to work when we repeat the prisoner's dilemma only twice. Can we solve this problem by adding more periods perhaps? Well, let's look at what happens with three periods. As before, we should work backward. We should start with stage three.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Stage 3 is the final stage of the game, so we know from our theorem what happens. Both players defect. Let's move up a step. What happens in stage 2?


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[Assistant] Whatever is going to happen in stage 2 is not going to affect what happens in stage 3. Stage 3 is going to be mutual defection.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if we can't affect what's going to happen in stage 3, in stage 2 we need to be maximizing our payoffs for this one particular stage, contingent on the opponent's strategy. The only way we can do that, of course, is by mutually defecting. So we get mutual defection in stage 2 as well. And of course, this logic applies equally to stage 1.


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[Assistant] Whatever is happening in stage one can't affect future play.


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[Assistant] In stage 2, both parties are going to defect, because in stage 3 both parties are going to defect.


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[Assistant] So that means that the players must be maximizing for this first stage, and the only way they can do that of course is by mutually defecting.


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[Assistant] So in a three period prisoner's dilemma, we cannot get cooperation to work. This is looking pretty bad because the more stages we accumulate, the more inefficiency we're getting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But maybe this is because we're still only looking at three periods. What happens if we have a really long game, maybe of N periods? Let's figure this out. We can work backward here as well. What happens in stage N?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, well, stage N is the final stage of the game, and so both parties are going to defect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the previous stage, we can't change what's going to happen in the future, so we have to defect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the stage before that, because in all future stages, both parties are going to be defecting and there's no changing that, we have to be maximizing for that stage, so that requires mutual defection, and that goes all the way up. It's almost like infinite regress, except we're bounded by the finite length of the game. We're stuck with mutual defection.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The fact that we're locked into mutual defection in the final stage poisons the well for all other previous stages. We can't get these cooperation contingent strategies to work.


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[Assistant] The result is simple. For all finitely repeated prisoner's dilemmas, mutual defection in every period is the unique subgame perfect equilibrium. There aren't any other equilibria there. It's just that single one. Now that's a bad way to go.


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[Assistant] And fortunately we're going to see that that's not how we're going to end this unit on repeated games. We're gonna have some good news later on. To overview the rest of this section.


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[Assistant] What happens when we have a infinitely repeated game? In this game, we only looked at what happened when there were end stages and there was some sort of fixed endpoint for the interaction.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a little bit strange. It's kind of weird to have an arbitrary cutoff point. So what happens when we get infinite repetition of a game? What we're going to see is that...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Cooperation is actually possible in these infinitely repeated prisoners' dilemmas, which is in stark contrast to what we saw with a finite length game.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] However, before we can actually get to these infinite length games, we have to go through some mechanics of repeated games. So that's what's going to be the focus of the next few videos. We're going to be dealing with infinite payoffs, trying to figure out how that works, and also trying to deal with the mechanics of arbitrarily large numbers of strategies, and how we can cope with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's gonna be a nice tool called the one-shot deviation principle, which is really going to help us out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then eventually we're going to be building toward what's known as the Folk Theorem in this unit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What we're going to see is that in these infinite length prisoner's dilemmas, not only can cooperation happen, but basically everything could happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's a problem if we're social scientists and we're trying to explain phenomenon. Because what's going to be happening again is that equilibria support just about every single possible pair of strategies for the players. And so as a result, we predict everything.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if you're predicting everything, you're simultaneously predicting nothing. This is one of the most negative results in game theory and also in economics. It's called the Folk Theorem. We'll ultimately be talking about that way later on in this unit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that wraps up the Repeated Prisoners Dilemma, and I hope you enjoyed this, and I hope to see you next time when we start building toward the mechanics of these infinite length games. Take care.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But, uh, all is well, ma'am, for, uh, now Mr. Bertram is to take the baron, and I am to be Count Cassell, ma'am, and come in three times, and have two and forty speeches, which is no trifle. Ah, Miss Crawford.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, I think you guys, you guys do some cool ass interviews, you know, more along the artsy side. So to me it was like, this is like a good chance for me to tell like the weird shit that happens every day on my social media. It's so, it's so fucking funny. It's just, and this is like the perfect place to reveal that shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh man, it's actually a story. Uhm, when I first moved to LA three years ago, I got a job at like a vaporizer pen company that, uh, for weed. And so we'd go to these trade shows and I'd see like these hyper aggressive teens walking around like, Dude check out this fucking clad!


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know a lot about it, and like, it would be funny, and I was like, yeah, you're right, dude, it would be funny. And I just kinda let that, you know, rest, like, in the brain, and like, uh, about three weeks later.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it was like everything that like gave me anxiety or whatever was, was hitting me and it makes you purge. Like that's the whole thing with ayahuasca is that you throw up uhm, what's bothering you. You're supposed to leave that which


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For some reason, he plays baseball or something. I was like, Blake, Blake, there it is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, I forgot, we're calling it Rope now. Yeah, come as Rope now. Come as Rope now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It, it didn't do as well. Because, you know, it was, uh, you know, text is, you know, very ambiguous. So I realized like, oh shit, this should be on camera. And then I started making dumb videos. And the original plan was to see how many people we could make believe that this was real. You know, just, just bait in these, these teens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, because, I don't know, it's just funny to make people think something- Oh yeaah, it's just trolling. Yeaah, it's so funny. It's some real internet shit.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well it was interesting because I made the documentary when the character had like 300 followers on Instagram and like 200 on Twitter. So it really wasn't anything at that point. And uhm, what ended up happening was when I released it 6 months later,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Funny thing for this character will move on or whatever, but then the character actually got steam or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it was a mix of both. I also got sponsors in there. You know, you gotta get that sponsor dollar. So we, we, we dropped that in there and we, we raised the 15,000 and I, I, a couple of my buddies from college who live out here in, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In, uh, in LA are filmmakers and they're very talented. And I was like, dude, let's collaborate again. Cause they made the first one as well. Right. And, uh, you know, we created this story arc, um, for this, for this character for the second film with the Indiegogo thing in mind. Right. And, uh, made the documentary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The first real big time it went mainstream was like one of the videos. There was one where I was like on a grey wall and then I vaped and I was, uh, it was like, uh, uh, when I'm in this moment, I'm not thinking about the headers. It's just me and my dope ass clouds.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then on uh, Mr. Technical Difficult page on Facebook where it got like I think 16 million views or whatever. Wow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so that one went ape shit and so that was the first viral thing that happened with Blake Vapes and then the, uh, the YouTube videos, uh, the, uh, actual Buzzfeed video was a totally separate occurrence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly. And a good friend of mine, Ben Bazuna, I used to make videos with him online at this thing called the Lie Guys. You can look it up, it's silly. Like we used to do uhm, a lot of different like social experiment pranks or whatever that kind of like told a story and he just had another one go super viral.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, look up Lie Guys, uh, that one I believe aired on Fusion, uh, on their YouTube channel, or whatever. Gay Rap Crank, that's kind of- It's called Boss Quas.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so Ben edited the first cut and uh, he put it together and gave it to like the approval process people or whatever it is. They all looked at it and they were like, is this, is this for real? And they were imitating the voice apparently and they felt bad. And he's like, no, it's just, it's a joke. It's a joke. And they're like, Oh, thank God.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There are definitely some mannerisms I like, uhm, for instance, at the end of a video a lot of times I'll just like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, I just, I use this, the, what my sponsors send me. Right. Cause, cause I don't want to pay for stuff, so. Uh, so yea, Gallery, they, they send me stuff, and I'm actually coming out, they're coming out with a flavor of mine, uh, it's gonna be like a strawberry kiwi sour, uhm, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yea, dude, it's glorious. I went to one, I got brought to one as like a celebrity guest and, okay, it was, this was the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. They were gonna do like a trick contest. Okay. And we're in like this big auditorium gymnasium thing and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No. No. No. I invented some really dumb ones that like I do like when I do Blake Vapes like live on stage or whatever. Uhm, but other than that, but they're not like real tricks. Like if someone saw them they'd be like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever seen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, and also, like, a lot of, a lot of them just are just constantly vaping and, you know, I'm, I'm not necessarily, cause I don't, I don't need to, I don't have like an addiction or an oral fixation by any means, uhm, you know, it's just an occasional thing that I'm just like, mmm, yeah, it's good flavor. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I guess, you know, I have a friend who vapes because he doesn't, it's like as an appetite suppressant, you know, but uhm, yeaah, I've never been, I've never had like a sweet tooth per se. Really?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, yeaah, I bought it off of, uh, Audio Jungle. It's like a royalty free song. And yeaah, I use that, uh, for like usually the intros or whatever. And then, you know, anytime people are promoting new tracks or whatever, I'll put them on there. Like I, I, I did stuff with like Henry Fong or whatever. Which by the way, you may know, uh, he's my cousin. No way! Yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So here's the dynamic that I noticed is there's like the dudes that do it, maybe they're coming off cigarettes or whatever, and a lot of them are like super bro-y, macho.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well now I got, you know, friends that work at bars, you know, so I didn't take it seriously. You know, some, some people really took it seriously and, uh, but I, I never was one of those dudes. Where do you go to college? Florida State.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Does that not really happen? Fortunately no, because, you know, everyone who, who knows me from back then, you know, knew I was coming up doing stand up and what not. Oh, okay. So they realized like, oh, this is a funny, this is just a bit that's going on too long. Right. Essentially is what this is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely, because it's so funny and so many people haven't, uh, you know, bought, like, really gotten it yet, which to me is why I still do it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Exactly, and the other thing that's cool too is like, your audience I feel like would really understand, like, oh there's someone behind this someone, you know? Cause you can't just have, no one can just be a Blake Vapes, I hope not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of a video, uhm, of a workout video that some dude did like six years ago or whatever. My writing partner is this guy named Nick West, really funny dude. He helps me with all the videos and whatnot and especially on the YouTube channel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, he found this video a while ago, like five years ago. And so we just did a shot for shot, almost word for word of this guy's actual workout.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and so I guess he found this video and so we did a shot for shot of it and it's so funny because people that follow Blake Babes because they think it's funny or whatever watch this video and they're like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I don't think it was online, but obviously, you know, like a Borat or an RPG, you know, that, I mean, I guess I didn't realize how much Borat like affected me because it came out when I was like 10th grade or whatever. I saw it like seven times in theaters, but now that I think about it, I was like, wow, that was,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably what really had a huge influence on just the idea of creating an alter ego. Right. You know, a comedic alter ego. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes, and, and so, and this is what's interesting about this whole, the Blake Babes thing is that, I believe it's one of the first, like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then their budget, I guess, got cut so they had to stop like three or four concerts and unfortunately I was part of that budget cut. Uhm, but they sent me like a bunch of, like a shit ton of shit, like uhm, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, yeah, so I bought this thing, this little pipe at the cannabis cup to fit in here and now I can take this wherever I go. You're at the cannabis cup? Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah. Yeaah. Very similar crowd. Yes, a lot of stoners love Blake Vapes. Yeaah. And that's the thing, I try to keep it separate, like Blake Vapes doesn't smoke weed. Right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got him on my Snapchat, uh, talking about haters. Really? Yeaah. He didn't answer the question, but he was there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, it's, I don't know, my friend actually got it for me, like as a joke, uh, for Blake Vapes, and then I'm actually gonna start merchandising these things. Hi haters.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well I found a Chinese supplier and uh, so, you know, hopefully we'll be able to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well, I don't know necessarily, as a reseller, it's okay. Right. You know, it'd be one thing if I was trying to be like, yo, this is the PlayBags brand, but, you know, I don't think you can, I think it's, High Haters is probably trademarked by somebody somewhere. You think so? You think someone?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, well she's also a stand-up comedian. And she's way funnier than I am, so. Really?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, before she was doing stand-up, uh, she was at a open mic that I happened to be at and she was in the front row and like, you know, I seen them titties and I was like, oh. Are they real? Oh yeah. Real boobs. Okay, cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In order to get a female giraffe, uh, interested in them. Again, I'm butchering my own joke. Uhm, I was like, so, so if I were a male giraffe, and I point to a girl, and you were a female giraffe, you would find this...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, because she like had this, she has like these piercing eyes where she'll just look right the fuck through you, dude. And she was like looking through me, but like sexy, you know?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, uh, I asked her if she had weed, and she did. Woah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, I mean, it's, it's a really, it's a, it's an interesting area in terms of like what people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we'll say and do, uh, you know, with female comics and whatever. There's plenty of hot ones. Okay. You know, uhm, but it's become like this weird thing, especially in the Los Angeles comedy scene.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where there's like uhm, there's just all these like creepy dudes. Really? Yeaah. And it's really uhm, they've really like deterred a lot of, you know, would-be female comics. Really? From, you know, going out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, a lot of times, yes, and obviously there's, the alternative scene is beautiful in stand-up. The alternative scene in stand-up comedy is like the most, is like a happy, good place for all sorts of people, a lot of diversity, and everyone has a really cool, unique taste, but the clubs are different, you know, cause it's like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's like the top dogs and they're just like they don't want anyone else near them and it's really interesting the difference between comedy and like DJs. You guys have figured it out in terms of like the collaborations and like


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we're the- we're the funniest ones and fuck females and fuck anyone else that's not a white male comic and-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's, it's like the word, because here's what happens, they build an audience, you build this audience, but you don't know how to do it because you're used to, you're, you're behind the camera, you know? And I'm finding it, I started the opposite way, I started in front of the six


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Essentially has been done before and, uh, it's very, uh, I don't know. It's as a stand up watching, it's gross. It's really gross. But then at the same time, it's like, well, they made, they made what they did on that. They made that platform their bitch basically. And you know, more power to them. If, if, you know, if you can utilize the tools that you're given respect, you know, at the same time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, definitely comedy and whether it be in something that I write or something that, you know, is, is submitted to me, uh, to produce or whatever. That's, that's where I find myself, you know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh yeaah, dude, with the fucking, the rope bit, you know. Let's do it, man.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, right now I would say maybe two or three. I've cut back a lot just because I'm focusing a lot on, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The YouTube talk show, the Blake Vapes YouTube show. Right. And then, uhm, all the, all the videos, like, you know, producing new video every single day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, my buddy, uh, Ben Epstein, uh, he directs the documentaries and whatnot. And, uh, it's just getting everyone and then booking like a comic or a DJ or somebody to, to come in and getting that day of the week set up and everything. It's like, it's a struggle, especially with everyone has day jobs. So, uhm, it's just, it's, it's,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Spending time on that as opposed to going out to the open mics or whatever in front of four people where I get sad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The monetization is coming slowly, but it's, you know, it's okay.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, especially because I have like a big teen following. Right, okay. All those teens out there. Shout out to the teens that followed by Vex.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fellas. Drop it low. Get low when the whistle goes. Or I do this new one


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just bait people more, like they'll be like, wow, how'd you get to be such a faggot? And I'll be like...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I'm looking at that. And I want to give examples on how to, how to handle your haters. And you know, hopefully it'll be like a way for like, you know, teens or whatever to look at it and be like, oh, okay, so nothing matters. We're on a fucking rock spending 50 billion miles, whatever it is, nothing matters. Cool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It depends. I like, I like, uh, I like dabs if I'm doing stuff. Like if I'm, I can't really go to the gym unless I dab. Really? Yea, like I take, I take a dab. Yea?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I literally just, I drink my pre-workout, take a dab, and then I'm just like, I'm numb throughout the entire workout.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, it does help to be topical, but I find that uhm, by doing topical things, like everyone will have already done them. Like, so like, the moment I logged in to Twitter the next day, I saw the Leo vape, uh, here's the reason why he didn't win an Oscar yet, and it's just like, you know, him holding a vape or whatever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I didn't, I don't really try to jump on the bandwagon of that, but like, topical stuff I'll do like for Valentine's Day, uh, like I did a post where I just, I blew vape like in front of my


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think so either. Uhm, I wanna, I wanna finish the book before I do it, but that's like the ultimate goal of Blake Vapes. If I can do a Ted Talk as Blake Vapes, dude.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the thing, they have like comedy TED Talks, and the way that I would do it is be like, alright, well this is going to be motivational comedy, because the way that I'm picturing in my head, like, I want to have like the, the fucking


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's just like, it's, a lot of times it's like a professor, someone who's an expert in a particular subject, and they just go up there and they just spout, spout knowledge dude. They tell their, their philosophy. They're like, they're like really woke ass people that are just trying to fucking wake your ass up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, Twitter, Stottle, Instagram, Bottle of Stottle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The site that Equifax started is called Equifax Security 2017. But a developer named Nick Sweeting wanted to show how easy it is to create a similar fake site, so he did. He called it Security Equifax 2017.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah. So we're here in a different place and in a different season and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is one of those places where Neil and I discussed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How to expand the other. We've been doing this all season, looking at the other that in the game we see through a fixed perspective from Ellie and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, we don't have to, we can actually start on the other side of it and present the other as humane and with, in this case, a guy named David, his own goals, his own community. He is a preacher. There are people clearly relying on him. Things are not going well. He knows it and he comforts a child. He comforts a little girl who's about Ellie's age.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's an intimation that her father has been killed and there's also the undercurrent that something else is going on here that's worse than just sadness. And if I may.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We understand that because this tall lanky drink of water named Troy Baker playing a character named James.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He has, shares a look of recognition with this guy, David. Something is going on here that these two guys know about him, maybe other people don't.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's about the idea that there can be a new world that is better than the world that we know.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or have left behind and it is also a verse about moving past tragedy and grief. It's something that I think David, uh, is played by Scott Shepard here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Has read every time someone has died. I think it's his go-to. I think it's a call to maintain faith, even in the face of tragedy and loss.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, you can certainly read into this, the dangers of theocracy, although I think they're just unlucky.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In my mind, this place must've looked fantastic in the spring. There are all these buildings. It's a resort.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's a resort. There's a beautiful lake and there are a lot of trees and probably quite a bit of game running around. You have this steakhouse and this is all taken directly from the game, Todd's Steakhouse, which is instantly convertible into a community gathering space and a church and a house of worship. And you don't stop to think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About things that are not particularly religious, but rather scientific. Like, this is Colorado. We are up against the Rocky Mountains. And when the winter comes...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This place is going to be unrecognizable from what it is in the spring and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The food is going to run out. The weather is going to be bitter cold and.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If anything goes slightly wrong, if it's even a slightly worse winter than we expect.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People are going to start dying and we are going to start starving and that is where we find you, uh, James and David contemplating what to do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is run by a woman who was a prosecutor. She was a woman of law.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it was founded therefore on the bedrock principles of law.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I believe very strongly in the separation of church and state, not only because it's important to protect people who are of religious minorities, but because religion doesn't do a good job of running a state.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is not only theocratic in nature, but he's also paternalistic in nature, which is another interesting thing to talk about the idea of how a patriarchal theocracy functions here versus a democracy built on secular law.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Run by both men and women in Jackson. There are these very clear differences and I think our show is.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Not shying away from saying one is better than the other. Doesn't help that he's a narcissist and everything is about him and the love that he receives and... Well, this is, you know, the people that tend to end up running theocracies, uh, are probably not as godly as they think.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The wound still looks really bad. The discoloration is spreading and more importantly, Joel's not waking up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's in and out of consciousness. He's not eating. He's not drinking. She's tapping water to his lips. She's doing everything she can, but she is a kid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now, she's also a kid that, as we've talked about, has this aspiration to be like Joel. And so I think when she's sitting there looking at him...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And she's starving herself because they're down to their last little scrap of beef jerky. She thinks, well, what would Joel do here?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what Joel will do is pick up that gun, go out there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I want to know how to hunt. Uh, well, this is her chance to go out there and hunt. Ellie.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No, it's too heavy. And that rifle that we're using there is the real thing. We obviously stressed gun safety all the time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most of the time when our actors are holding guns, they're not loaded with blanks. They're obviously never loaded with real ammunition. In that case, the gun as she's walking around is unloaded, but it's the real rifle. It is heavy. And Bella, like the next day, uh, was feeling it, like in her biceps and her pecs, like it was hard for her to hold that thing up and we,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Would it throughout the scene where she confronts your character and David from off camera, we would occasionally be like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Lift the gun, lift the gun. Cause she would, it starts to lower, but she can't lower it. She has to keep it on you guys. And yet you can see her struggling with it. And we kept some of those moments in they're subtle, but you can tell it's just, she's not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, turn around, you know, she's being, she's doing the best she can to be tough and scary. And what I love is that Scott Shepard as David.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] About when a certain concept begins to form in David's mind. And the concept is, I want her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we've seen this episode now, there are no spoilers here. David's interest in Ellie is not merely paternal. There's something else.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But he wants to have her. He wants to possess her. He wants to own her.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I think it happens immediately.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think he looks at this kid who is so far away from any of the people that he is currently the pastor for. And he is lit up. I think he is...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Intensely attracted to her force of nature, her power.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The people that came to him came to him because they were sheep. So these sheep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Keep huddling towards David. But Ellie is different. Yes, Ellie is different. And he is so impressed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it's not only that she's holding a gun and that she got the drop on them and that he knows exactly who she is already.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is the girl that was with the guy that killed Alec.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Who was the man with the baseball bat two episodes ago, episode six, who jabs Joel in the stomach with that broken handle of a baseball bat.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the guy that Joel kills. That's the father of this little girl who's crying. And he knows all this. So does James. So when David says, go get her medicine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] James is so confused and I love that Davis is not code.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, he's saying, cause some, you could see like, oh, go sneak around. What I'm really saying is sneak around behind her and shoot her. No, he's saying help her, which is absolutely the weirdest possible decision.


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[Assistant] But that's the thing I think that already attracts David to Ellie is that she was involved in killing.


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[Assistant] Everything at that point was about the world shrinking down.


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[Assistant] Creating a circumstance whereby Ellie will lean forward. He's not gonna pull her, he's not gonna, he's gonna make her want to lean forward. In the game,


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[Assistant] That discussion happens after Ellie and David have to fight a lot of infected together. And one of the hardest.


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[Assistant] So they're bonded by a certain trust because of gameplay. He cheers her on.


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[Assistant] Yes, because we felt, while we could do that, the...


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[Assistant] The plot implications of a lot of infected running around out there, they can just.


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[Assistant] So it was about the conversation, and he's very crafty about letting her make her jokes, not pushing things, not taking things personally,


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[Assistant] What I love is that Bella, the way Bella played it was, it takes her like three seconds too long.


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[Assistant] To realize, because she's into the story. She's suckered in by him completely. It's, and what I love about that is...


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[Assistant] That's the first time I think we've seen it happen. No one's been able to fool her.


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[Assistant] No one's been able to sucker her. She's always one step ahead of everybody.


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[Assistant] It's something I remembered feeling in the game and it was at the time shocking when in The Last of Us, the game, you


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[Assistant] Wake up, so to speak as Ellie, you become Ellie. The screen goes black and now you're playing as Ellie. It was shocking. And.


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[Assistant] Playing as Ellie and not knowing if it was gonna be okay, if Joel was gonna live, was really scary.


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[Assistant] No it isn't. So that's a question. Yeah.


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[Assistant] This is a big deal, like we talked about this a lot.


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[Assistant] We thought that it was important to humanize David, humanize the world around him, make us feel at least when he was initially with Ellie in that sawmill that he's a good guy. You know what? He's forgiven her, which is a very Christian thing to do.


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[Assistant] In fact, he's given her medicine so that she can save Joel. Yea, he's been honest with her. He has been honest with her the entire time.


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[Assistant] And, uh, we need to make it clear that that isn't the complete truth, but we don't want to go all the way into showing who he fully is yet.


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[Assistant] And this is the product of that. It was important for us to show the audience that, uh, he is...


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[Assistant] Not the nicest guy in the world. Uh, he, he says to Hannah after he hits her, I know you think you don't have a father anymore, but you will always have a father. It's about the most patriarchal thing you can possibly say.


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[Assistant] And what does father do? Father comforts you, father teaches you, and then father hits you.


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[Assistant] Yeah, but that's the thing. He, in his mind, that is love because he doesn't understand what love is.


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[Assistant] He then reaches his hand down to Hannah.


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[Assistant] But he doesn't take her hand. He just reaches down and makes her take his hand.


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[Assistant] And that's about the most David thing you can do. That's this other level of you see you wanted to take my hand.


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[Assistant] Of a gas lighter, a manipulator, and an abuser.


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[Assistant] Your instinct, James's instinct and Timothy and Marcos and Josiah's is to kill this little girl for what she did because she and whoever that guy is killed their friend Alec and David won't let you.


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[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah. James is not as equal. Um, and that's what's sort of tragic is that it's the reason the first real conversation that David has with James is about David challenging James's faith.


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[Assistant] And James says, no, I still believe. And you would think, okay, this is like, because I need you with me. And he's like, we're going hunting. You know, he, this is what bad people do.


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[Assistant] They make you crave their approval and then when they give you the approval, it makes you feel things that you probably shouldn't be feeling. That's how they manipulate you. And that's how.


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[Assistant] David manipulates James, but the whole time David doesn't.


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[Assistant] I really love James. David has contempt for James. David has contempt for practically every single person in that church of his.


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[Assistant] What's happening there is again, David doing this thing of slowly luring her and Ellie doing her best to put on a brave face. She is concussed. She is trapped in a cage. She is unarmed. Joel is out there dying somewhere.


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[Assistant] This guy's saying, Hey, I'm keeping you alive. And she's telling him to eat shit, which is, you know, what's your name? Eat shit. There's no more Ellie thing to do than that.


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[Assistant] And it's also, he is fighting for Ellie.


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[Assistant] If it were just him, I think he would just be like, Oh, for fuck's sake, just do it. Just kill me already. I'm useless. I'm broken. I'm lying on this mattress and I'm dying. But the thought.


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[Assistant] That Ellie might still be alive. That Ellie might need him. That is what folk, that is what gets him off the mattress. That's a, well, that and the penicillin, which is derived from a fungus, which I love.


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[Assistant] That's what gets them going and Ali really stressed that this fight should have a.


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[Assistant] That grounded level of violence is what we're talking about. We've been talking about it all along. We want you to feel it.


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[Assistant] We want you to feel it as much as possible and we want you to even wonder, even if it's subconsciously, even if it's for fleeting second.


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[Assistant] Who loved this man? Who did he love? How did he get here? Does, is this what he deserved?


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[Assistant] These are people. They're people and Josiah and Timothy and Marco and James.


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[Assistant] Are all following someone who is telling them to do these things.


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[Assistant] That's the scene where we get to this.


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[Assistant] Somewhat uh, more developed truth about David and why he likes her so much.


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[Assistant] Which is not merely this sexual misplaced sexual desire in a 14 year old girl, but this recognition that he's found a kindred spirit.


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[Assistant] And that is a very disturbing thing, because on the one hand, he hasn't.


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[Assistant] Ellie is a far more decent person than him, no question. But on the other hand, he does put his finger on something. Two things. One, he talks about how cordyceps is the thing that set him free. That he looked at what cordyceps did.


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[Assistant] Which is to be fruitful and to multiply and to protect its own through violence if it must. Which is often organized religion. And that is his definition of love.


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[Assistant] To secure, he says to secure a future. This is that, that line to secure future is part of the, like a white supremacist anthem to secure a future for our white children or whatever it is. It's this.


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[Assistant] We've talked a lot about these two kinds of loves and this xenophobic, protective, defensive, insular, tribalistic love David has taken to its furthest extreme.


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[Assistant] And so of course he admires cordyceps because that's what cordyceps does. But he says to Ellie, you have a violent heart. I should know I've always had a violent heart.


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[Assistant] Everything he says about her seems to come to pass, including if I put this knife in your hand, you'd stab me with it. Well, he gets more than that. She does have a violent heart, but she also has a beautiful heart. Ellie has both kinds of love within her.


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[Assistant] I think he wanted her to recognize that he was her way to safety now that her other father figure was presumably dead or dying. He did not expect Joel to come back. And


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[Assistant] Purposefully Joel doesn't save the day. I think he wanted her to begrudgingly begin to trust him and then she would become his wife. He wanted her to fall in love with him.


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[Assistant] I think that he really did believe that she would help him. I think he was being honest when he said, look at us, look at what's happened. I could use the help. God knows I could use the help. He needs a partner. He doesn't have one.


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[Assistant] There's a moment in the game that we replicate identically, because we have to, because it's brilliant. Where David finally reveals the truth of his attraction to her.


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[Assistant] What exactly does, because neither one of them had really studied that scene. I was like, Oh, this is interesting. Let me explain exactly what's going on here. And I do, I remember laughing because I sort of, this is what's going on. You're saying this because.


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[Assistant] You, uh, want him to think that you are getting it and that you're into it and you're only doing that because you've made the calculation that you'll be able to break his finger and grab the keys and get out of here. Let's see when I go tell the others now.


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[Assistant] When David smashes her face against these, the bars of the cell, she is hurt. She is bleeding from her face.


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[Assistant] And when she yells at him, tell him. She's still defiant. Yeah. I'm a little girl who broke your fucking finger. And this is where I used to call Bella my little savage because she can do these things where it's terrifying, where she's like an animal.


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[Assistant] This is very close to how it functioned in the game because it was one of those moments that was so visceral in every sense of the word. And.


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[Assistant] Ellie interrupts with her, the final card she has to play, which, and I remember when I was playing the game, I had no idea how the hell is she going to get out of this? There was, it's seemingly impossible and it didn't occur to me. I had forgotten when I played that she could do this, that she could say this. It struck me as so smart.


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[Assistant] And it works the same way here. The dialogue is the same. Even how she kills James is the same.


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[Assistant] Well, she, by this point in the story, has committed acts of violence. And she herself has been violenced. And...


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[Assistant] Right now she's in full fight or flight.


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[Assistant] Live or die. She has been reduced by this man to being an animal. She's not even processing what's happening right now. She's, she uses the last of her intellect to buy herself some time. And then she goes into absolute survival mode and in survival mode, your life means nothing. His life means nothing. The only lives she cares about are her own.


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[Assistant] When Ellie kills David, we are doing what was there in the game.


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[Assistant] And part of it is that there's that one less thing of separation between you and reality because it's not animated. It's, it's a person because there is blood flying everywhere, including hitting the lens. And then it's also, uh, just telling Bella,


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[Assistant] You have no restraints. You have no leash. You have no nothing. Just do what needs to be done. And when she kills him, it's so clear that he's beyond dead after the fifth or sixth blow.


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[Assistant] And it's that moment where you realize that there's just everything pouring out of her. And when she finally stops and she looks off, it's, I don't know how you could portray trauma.


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[Assistant] Better, more convincingly, more accurately than what is on her face in that moment and what is in her eyes. It is so upsetting.


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[Assistant] Yeah, there was a question of like, how does Joel get inside if...


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[Assistant] The keys are on David. It was like a little bit of a logic thing and then it was a little bit of like wanting our Ellie to have completed it to the point where she could literally


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[Assistant] When Joel finally finds her and she finally realizes it's him, that to me is why I cry every time. Because I know what just happened and, and the same person that.


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[Assistant] Obliterated a man's face with a cleaver is now a little girl.


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[Assistant] Who is just needs her father's affection. Clinging to her father who is calling her baby girl and putting his coat around her and leaning her off to safety. It's.


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[Assistant] Like it's a testament again to the story that Neil created and the way that you and Ashley perform those scenes. All of that is the text that we pull from all of it.


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[Assistant] And that's why I've loved this job. I love this job as crazy as this job was, as long and exhausting as it was. I love it. And I want to just keep doing it because of moments like that. It's so satisfying to know that


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[Assistant] Put something like that out there, even though it's so upsetting, it's also so beautiful and.


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[Assistant] My hats off to everybody that worked on that episode. Everyone. But especially you two ding-dongs. For all you've done.


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[Assistant] Pretty much the brand split's kind of non-existent this week, but I'll allow it. It felt like this was a good...


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[Assistant] Middle to later third of Raw build to WrestleMania. Like if this was a week or two ago, it would have felt much more appropriate. But overall, I think it was still really good. I didn't-


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[Assistant] Yeah. The more I've thought about it watching the show today, I have kind of thought maybe it does just make more sense to do that match after WrestleMania when you


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[Assistant] Yeah, the good guys can't just win if they're the ones holding all the belts, which, fingers crossed, is how they go with things this weekend, but you never know.


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[Assistant] Who better than Canyon? But like, who better to beat the undefeated second singles guy in the bloodline other than the top babyface in the company?


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[Assistant] Like I don't know who better you serve that, like save that moment for. And I was saying on the Smackdown podcast that I didn't know whether they were just going to have Cody win this match to really give him the momentum leading into WrestleMania or whether they would have like the big


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[Assistant] My mindset was always like, alright, well, whether it's now or a month from now, Cody comes out on top over Solo because the you're not ready angle of things.


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[Assistant] Yes, cause Roman's the control freak and as long as he keeps people thinking the way he wants them to think, that's how he stays in power.


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[Assistant] Could well do. There's a bunch of different aspects to this that you can really look, look at.


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[Assistant] As the show's going off the air, you see Paul talking into his phone, maybe recording a voice note, or sending Roman Reigns a message or something, you would probably imply that he's talking to Roman Reigns in some form.


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[Assistant] But it's like, what is he saying in that? What are his motivations? Because we know he has them.


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[Assistant] But we just don't know exactly what the goal here was. Yeaah, the most likely of them is for him to just set up and soften Cody Rhodes before his match with Roman Reigns. But maybe it's Paul's way of


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[Assistant] Putting Solo Sokoa in his place a little bit after last week when they show like after Raw goes off the air, Roman and Solo kind of have a little bit of a, of a moment.


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[Assistant] Yeah, they're, they're kind of not on equal terms. They're not all happy go lucky bloodlines all in a good place right now. So maybe when that happens, you need to.


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[Assistant] Get solo back in line a little bit and show them like, no, no, you're not the big man yet. You need to learn. And this happens. I don't know. It's really interesting stuff. You're a henchman.


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[Assistant] So he had their help to even the playing field, make it even once again, which to be fair is not what a lot of bloodline opponents have had over the last couple of years. So in that sense, it was sort of an assist just to get them back to equal ground.


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[Assistant] Yes, I do agree that I think Cody still had a pretty clean win over Solo Sokoic.


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[Assistant] And going back to what you said about Triple H wanting to establish this show as being must see, that would certainly be a way to do it. I don't know if I would rather see that or see just the next chapter of


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[Assistant] As the head of the table, as the tribal chief. He doesn't have the championship.


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[Assistant] If it's been anything to go off of whether it be the Sammy Zane bit or the Jey Uso thing or Jimmy Uso joining the group or whatever, they tend to really enjoy


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[Assistant] I totally think so. I've said it on the last Smackdown podcast. I see it here with his backstage interview that we'll get to. It just feels like everybody has found their baby face that they are willing to accept in this role.


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[Assistant] That the company's gonna push as the top babyface and that fans are willing to accept. And for WWE...


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[Assistant] They've not had one of those in a very long time where there's like that kind of synergy between the company and the fans who are both just like, yeah, he's a guy. I'm happy to cheer for him. I'm happy to present him as the top guy. Yeah. And that's like 20 years ago.


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[Assistant] I mean it's, again, it's difficult because we will then see if Cody then lasts at that.


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[Assistant] You can't base a decision to put the belt on him now based off of what we do or don't know about what this is going to be in that amount of time.


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[Assistant] Right now, where we stand, he's the guy to beat Roman Reigns.


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[Assistant] You could have made the same argument that Sami Zayn was the right guy to beat Roman Reigns a month ago. And I did. I did. But.


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[Assistant] A month later they still have a guy that would be totally acceptable to beat Roman Reigns and I don't think you'll get another one of those for a very long time.


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[Assistant] You know what really made me feel this way recently was like the decision of Rhea Ripley to challenge Charlotte Flair for the Smackdown Women's Championship. And there's really been no sense of, okay, was she switching brands or anything like that.


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[Assistant] When Batista won the world, won the Royal Rumble, and he had to choose whether he was going to face Triple H or JBL, it was like, no, you are either going to stay on Raw and do this, or you are going to change brands and face that guy.


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[Assistant] Here's like, no, I want to face Charlotte. The fact that Smackdown is in the name of the belt does not matter whatsoever. Like Ria's on both shows, Charlotte's mainly been on Smackdown, but like, it doesn't matter which brand any of these wrestlers are on. So if you can just eliminate that aspect of the show, I don't think you'll really be missing much. I don't think so.


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[Assistant] I mean, it's been around for whether you regard, like, the Rock's scratch logo belt as the same belt. It's largely the same design. It's been ten years!


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[Assistant] And it overstayed its welcome. It really did, yeaah. That felt like an eternity that it was around, and now this belt's been around just as long. Longer!


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[Assistant] Charles Berg says, adrenaline in my soul, got blonde hair, I'm Cody Rhodes. Do it all to get them off their feet. My dad's name is Dusty Rhodes, scaring my dog with loud pyro. Out the curtain, lights go up, I'm home.


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[Assistant] Oh my God. It still goes. Got a neck tattoo and P and people start to boo. Didn't see that coming. Tried to change the name. They hated what I say. I started running. I know that doesn't fit with the original rhyme scheme, but it made me laugh. And that's what's important. Shout out to you, Charles. I love you, Charles.


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[Assistant] So, I know at one point, uh, they were in talks to do the Miz's theme at WrestleMania 27, but they'd already decided on the big awesome balloon entrance.


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[Assistant] Totally worth it. So, I don't know, maybe? They seem down to do something like that. I mean, although I say that, didn't they do his entrance at like, Revolution 2020 and it sucked? It was, yea, at a, an AEW pay-per-view, and it was not.


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[Assistant] I think it was Revolution 2020 with the neck tattoo when he faced MJF. Oooh. Makes me not want to see it.


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[Assistant] I think that just makes people then lose faith. You know? Like it's his time. Like if, you know.


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[Assistant] If you have the big baby face win after the peak.


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[Assistant] You're not guaranteed to find another peak. You know, they could just lose interest and then you never capture that again and I wouldn't run the risk.


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[Assistant] The, the build for some of the not top level match, not the bloodline matches, basically.


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[Assistant] Everything else has been like, eh, maybe middle of the pack, maybe better than that, depending on the match. But I was looking at the card, cause I filled out my Wrestle League predictions, go to WrestleTalk.com and fill out yours as well.


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[Assistant] There's a lot of matches on these cards where I'm like, that should be really great.


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[Assistant] That too! Oh, Edge and Finn Balor in Hell in a Cell? That'll be great! Oh, this 8-4 way tag match! That's gonna be really good!


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[Assistant] Oh, Logan Paul and Seth Rollins, that might be the best match. Oh, but that triple threat, their continental title match, it's just one after another. I think both the women's matches should be great. That'd be great. The tag match is going to be great. The main event's going to be great. There's a lot to look forward to on this show. Bad build aside, and it has been a lot of bad


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[Assistant] I, I think my expectations for this show are appropriately high, but not like, oh it's gonna be the best Russell Mania ever, cause then you can only be disappointed.


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[Assistant] I think this could have a really, really good lasting impact on the Wrestlemania legacy that we've come to know the last few years. We've had a couple of good Wrestlemanias in a row.


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[Assistant] This, uh, this should be better than those ones. And you gotta have fun as well because you're gonna ride some atoms to watch it.


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[Assistant] I think the, there being a host of the show, the host is supposed to make you want to see the show more. And that's not necessarily


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[Assistant] I mean, everybody knows my appreciation for like the late ruthless aggression era and such. I just get such a kick out of seeing Lita and Trish.


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[Assistant] Maybe she was talking about the NXT Women's Tag Titles? Did she win those twice? I think so? She certainly won them for a cup of coffee, didn't she? Yea, well she was the first one with Raquel and then they lost them 5 minutes later. Yea. I don't remember after that and I was reviewing that show. It was a real cup of coffee.


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[Assistant] Uh, it did lead into Becky Lynch vs Eoskai.


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[Assistant] Why have we not had matches like this for the last six months?


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[Assistant] Apps are bloody exactly. Just have the best workers on the show having heated matches.


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[Assistant] Oh my goodness. I would watch EO Sky wrestle on every show.


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[Assistant] It's a shame, I remember, I was super excited at Summerslam when everybody showed up, and I was really excited to just sit there and, cause I was at the, the uhm,


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[Assistant] Whatchamacallit, the Raw show, like just after Summer Slam, where they did all this


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[Assistant] Build to Trish Stratus getting back in the ring and it didn't happen for six months, but I was sat there just going like, Oh, this women's division is going to kick ass. And then damage control just fell so flat, but it didn't have to. We just needed to see them have these great matches, maybe win some time.


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[Assistant] It's nice for me who's a tourist on the Raw podcast. Yeah. Who gets to come in and just watch one of these good matches and it's just, it's new to me.


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[Assistant] Sat and I were having a very interesting conversation that really made me think, uh, on Saturday off camera where he just kept talking about how


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[Assistant] Asuka, where it means to take a not central part of their character and make it their whole character, basically. And for Asuka on the main roster, it's just been she's kooky and crazy and kind of fun, you know, that sort of thing. She dances around. She dances, and that kind of became her whole character during like that pandemic era and everything, where now it's


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[Assistant] I don't know. There's not a whole lot of character left to her. The nobody's ready for Oscar thing from NXT. Like I remember they showed that clip during this promo package of her saying that right into the camera during her NXT days after she won the title. And I was like,


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[Assistant] God damn, I remember that and that was awesome. I really, really loved that era of NXT and that era of Asuka.


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[Assistant] We got what we've gotten, but I do think it's really telling that WWE kind of knows that they're billed for Bianca and, uh, and Asuka hasn't really been much of anything. So they focused on this instead.


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[Assistant] Chad Gable, hopefully, is going to be one of those folk who has been the other half of the good matches to reestablish Raw and SmackDown as like, wrestling shows since Triple H has taken over. And that after WrestleMania, he will be one of those guys that gets to be the guy winning some matches and getting a little bit more.


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[Assistant] I'm really hoping that Mustafa Ali is going to be one of those guys as well. Cause I was like, oh, Seth Rollins and Mustafa Ali, that, that sounds great. I'm really looking forward to this 15 minute match and it's over. You know, that's one thing.


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[Assistant] On a more positive note, this, and I granted, I haven't watched a lot of raw the last few months, but this whole segment, I was like,


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[Assistant] But he was cutting this promo, and they were hanging on his words, and they were-


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[Assistant] Playing along, singing the song when they wanted him to. And he said, I'll see you at WrestleMania. And they all popped big. And I was like, damn.


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[Assistant] He's mega roguish. Here's a top guy on Raw!


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[Assistant] And that confidence, like, I don't think, it didn't come through the camera when he was Universal Champion and when he was supposed to be the top guy of Raw.


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[Assistant] I could buy you as being a top guy on this show, maybe move them to smack down at the brand split still going to exist and whatever and have them be like head honcho of that show. If Cody's going to be on raw. I see a lot for Seth Rollins coming out of this. This was a real good night for him.


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[Assistant] I love when he's, when he's sat there and he's just like, you know, we got, we got another spot in this tag thing. We're out of tag teams.


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[Assistant] Every time I watch this show, they flip flopped whether her name is


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[Assistant] I don't know, I saw this and I think I just like watching Brock Lesnar move real fast.


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[Assistant] He did it, yeah, it was one of those like, oh, there he is. And there he goes.


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[Assistant] I just like that. I like Brock Lesnar. I like seeing Brock Lesnar do something other than suplexes when that's all he did for like a few years there. Now he's, he's kind of opening himself up to doing more. And I like it. Brock Lesnar is amazing. Nothing


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[Assistant] I've heard them cut like a bajillion times. This needed more.


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[Assistant] Yeah, I mean, that's what we've been saying on Smackdown for like the last month. They're just waiting for them to get to the emotional crux of this and they never did. We said like in the office we were just having a chat about this.


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[Assistant] But they'll have a good match. They'll both be good matches. Listen, I know we bring it up all the time, but like people remember Sasha and Bianca.


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[Assistant] And they try to forget the Reggie stuff. If you have a good match, people will forget about the lackluster


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[Assistant] I don't know, I just look at the Seth Rollins Edge, uh, Hell in a Cell match from whatever Saudi show that was a couple years ago, and it kicked ass. Like, it was the best Hell in a Cell match in a long time. I think this has a chance to also be that. I'm done with this feud. I know, but.


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[Assistant] So I'm trying to talk myself into this being like, oh, fine booking, you know, cause there's nothing on the line here, whatever, which.


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[Assistant] Made me laugh real hard when I think Kevin Patrick was like, are these teams going to be able to coexist considering how much is on the line this weekend? And I was like, there's nothing on the line. They're just having a match. Momentum. Momentum. But regardless, that bit aside, cause I was just good for a laugh. This to me really stands out as like,


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[Assistant] The, the preliminary match on like a big New Japan show. Yeaah. You know what I mean? Where it's just like they do just kind of throw all the extras out there to have a big eight man tag or something and they all just run in, hit their finishers one after another and everyone pops and that's it and it is fairly inconsequential but it warms the crowd up. I think this will like open


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[Assistant] Maybe night two or something like that and just kick ass. I think it might be used as a buffer match. Could do, but...


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[Assistant] I need a big 8 man tag on like every episode of WWTV.


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[Assistant] In the middle of the WrestleMania show, you know, like a big fight night feel kind of backstage promo.


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[Assistant] Yeah, that kind of deal. I really enjoyed it. I love Cody. I love everything about Cody Rose. I always have. I never turned on him and I'm not, I'm not just saying that. I'm not just saying that. Go back. I've always been a Cody Rhodes apologist.


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[Assistant] He said, oh, this guy wanted wrestle media tickets last week. Get out of here. It was kind of in there, but yeah, this was just a good fellow scene.


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[Assistant] I thought this was a good promo, and I liked that it was a way to do something different.


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[Assistant] You know, it wasn't a backstage deal. Wasn't just a talking head to camera. It wasn't another


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[Assistant] I was like kind of half paying attention to this match, you know, just cause like there wasn't a lot to keep my attention of course, but at the same time, there's just stuff going on in the office. I'm kind of like listening into a conversation over here and talking about blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden I hear music start playing and I was like,


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[Assistant] Hell, it's over? Like, cause again, NO ONE COUNTED ALONG WITH THE THREE!


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[Assistant] You could say the same thing about Chelsea if they didn't have Chelsea on the WrestleMania card because she just came back to the company and stuff too. But I think


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[Assistant] In the grand scheme of things of people wrestling today, I think Candice LeRae might be my favorite women's wrestler. I think she's fantastic. I was at that show where she, she faced EO on a takeover and it was like the best match of the whole weekend and everything.


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[Assistant] I was so excited when she came back. I was like, great, another awesome women's wrestler to add to the mix here. We're going to have great matches every week and this is where we're at.


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[Assistant] We're going against Canon, somewhere along the way. It stopped being Canon in WWE.


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[Assistant] Yeah, could well be. I mean, I, I, I predicted Dom to win in, uh, Wrestle League, so I would have to agree with you.