[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we ended up developing this through the development of a validated measure called the user burden scale. We'll be presenting this at CHI next month actually. But basically what we've done is we've done a bunch of interviews and created a whole set of burdens and we developed questions based on that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and the questions when we did our, our, uhm, validity ended up grouping into these, these six categories that I just described. Uhm, but the scale itself, uhm, you know, we basically were designing all these technologies and not really insane that we were trying to reduce the burden but had no way of actually, uhm, saying, proving that we had reduced the burden. So this was our, our way of, of, of figuring out how to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so uhm, end up being a twenty item scale with six sub-scales in each of the six categories. Uhm, and it's designed for both systems that people are currently using as well as systems that have been abandoned. So we have two versions of the scale based on the technology.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the example questions are, you know, using, you, you would actually pipe in the name of the, the technology. So Facebook or Fitbit or anything along those lines.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You'd pipe the thing in, so using Facebook made me feel like a bad person, uhm, was a mental and emotional one, uhm, I use, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, Netflix more often than I should, uhm, and then they can kind of say never a little bit sometimes. We have two different types of questions there. So you can kind of get a sense of that, you know, the systems policies about privacy are not trustworthy. Uhm, I need assistance from another person to use that. So that's how they fit into each of those categories. Yes, James.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, we validated with over a thousand people, uhm, they got to opt into saying what technology they wanted to evaluate, uhm, and I'll go through some examples of some of the stuff that they put in there. Uhm, but yeaah, we tested the, the validity of the, uhm, components using principal components analysis, we did inner item reliability,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, we did concurrent validity with technology still in use versus abandoned. And so we were able to show that the scale is sensitive to being, showing that, you know, technologies that had been abandoned had higher burden in various categories than technologies that are still in use.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then we did convergent validity, uhm, compared to the system usability scale, uhm, which measures kind of the more positive aspects, so user burdens for the more negative aspects. And so, uhm, we saw, uhm, basically opposite correlation with, with the SUS.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and conversion with along some of the metrics within the NASA TLX, which measures task load, which is another sort of similar one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so the details are all in our, our paper, uhm, like I can, uh, we'll be at CHI, uhm, next month.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The- ended up with the six subscales, so we have varying numbers of questions within each one. Um, and so the idea is that you- if you didn't care about privacy, uh, some people don't, you don't have to include those questions in the scale. Or if you only really care about physical, you're designing a wearable technology, you wanna assess physical, you can only use that. So the scale is valid within each of those scales as well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and within each category you can get an average score. Uhm, so you can kind of say like, okay, this one's high in privacy, but low in, uh, mental and emotional. Uhm, so you can kind of see those trade-offs as well within each of the scores.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so just for fun, uhm, here are some of the scores, uh, for various technologies that people in our validity studies showed us. Uhm, so you can kind of see the six dimensions around the circle and, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had people, uhm, either say that this is a technology that they were using currently or that they had abandoned. So you can kind of compare the different levels of burdens. So the using in this case is blue and the abandon is orange. Uhm, so this is an iPad.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so the people who had abandoned it was actually high difficulty in use for them. Uhm, whereas the people who are still using it was actually low. So the more extreme is the higher burden.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, same thing with, uh, the mental and emotional was higher for the people who had abandoned that technology, but lower, uhm, for that. So, uhm, but time and social seem to be about equal for people in terms of the abandoned versus not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Here's PayPal, uh, so it seems like the people who are abandoning it were abandoning it because of privacy issues as well as difficulty of use issues.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and a little bit in some of the others. Uhm, the numbers of each category, this is the number of people who responded about PayPal or uhm, so there were 18 who were still using it in our set of data and 22 who had abandoned it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, this is Fitbit. Uhm, so, it's interesting. I was thinking, I was, I thought that physical would actually be more of an issue for people, but it was more of an issue for the people who are still using it than the people who would abandon it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but the difficulty of use, uhm, and privacy were the biggest concerns for the people. It's a pretty small sample, uhm, so you can kind of take that with a grain of salt.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeaah, or is dorky looking, or uhm, or like the spamming your friends sort of thing fit into social, or I don't want people to know that I'm using it. Uhm, I can, if people are interested I can pull up the full set of questions and kind of get a sense for what's in each category, but the definitions I talked about kind of are related to the, the questions in each.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so we have, uh, Kindle, uhm, so people who were, uhm, it was interesting that the time in social, uh, probably more time in this case was really, really high for Kindle, uhm, for the people who are still using it because they're spending a lot of time in it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, uhm, but, you know, the people who weren't kind of maybe abandoned it because it wasn't useful. And this kind of highlights one of the issues of using user burden on its own, uhm, as opposed to doing it in a set of, uh, things within kind of computing systems because user burden doesn't tell us anything about value.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so for example, they may actually value reading on a Kindle, so they're willing to have a higher time and social burden. So that's one of the things that we want to evaluate is,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then we had Gmail. I was actually surprised by the number of people that had abandoned Gmail, uh, but they didn't like it because of the difficulty of use, uhm, and everyone was concerned about privacy, but again, if they value it, they may be willing to put up with any privacy concerns that they have.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but you know, suppose maybe they had found another email solution that was easier than Gmail for them and that's why they had abandoned it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Oh, so this is, so it's, uhm, 0 to 4 is the scale. So yeaah, so this is like a 4.5 average, uhm, right there, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Actually a lot of people feel like it's valuable for what they pay, I think. So uhm, I think, and the questions in the financial category were definitely more about like, this is a good use of my money, or sorry, this is, uh, I don't get enough value out of this for what I'm paying for. So the questions were around that way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then lastly, Facebook was our most popular one that people rated, uhm, and privacy burden was pretty high, especially for the people who felt abandoned, uhm, and the time in social were high, but uhm, financial obviously, there's no money that you have to pay, and the difficulty of use, people who abandoned it found it a little bit more difficult.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so they were, uhm, our, our, uhm, criteria was just people who use technology frequently, and obviously trickers are using technology frequently.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, probably, yeaah, I have to go back through, like I said, it was a pretty long tale, so these were the top 8 that were kind of the most common. Yeaah, yeaah, absolutely.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right, exactly, yeaah. So user burden, I think this is sort of a population thing, but yeaah, absolutely. My burden may not be the same as James'. It may not be the same as, you know, a person with a disability. He might be a person, like I said, with a financial. It definitely depends on the person in terms of, of their, um, financial status.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We let them self-define what abandonment, uhm, so we just said, ehm, do you answer this questionnaire for technology you used to use but no longer? So we didn't necessarily say you tried it once and quit, uhm, you know, just you used to use, and we let people sort of define what they meant by that. Yeah, good question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Potentially, yeaah. We haven't done that yet, but I would imagine uhm, maybe people could regularly do this over time, and if they're starting to see burdens grow over time, then they could kind of get some early warning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, could be, yeah, so they could kind of have a, you know, how's, how's Facebook doing today in terms of that? I don't, maybe. I haven't run this by them yet, but we'll see. That's a good idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, oh, the last one was Skype, but this is actually interesting, you know, the people, there's a really big difference between the people who are using it, uh, uh, and it was actually, there was the most abandoned technology in terms of the using versus abandon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The people who had abandoned it just found it really difficult to use and the people who are still using it found it super easy to use. So it could just be, you know, I don't know if those were all Microsoft workers or people who work for Skype or what not, but they felt that that was actually the biggest difference for them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so, why should we care about reducing user burden? Uhm, so, I talked a little bit about abandonment. Uhm, but, you know, I think that, you know,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The user burden can definitely lead to technology ban, especially if it's discretional use. So things like, you know, all of us kind of probably complain about things that we have to use for work, you know, like we have to use email probably.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we probably have to use Microsoft Word or some other word processing software, but if it's sort of, you know, a game or a social network or things along those lines, then people, you know, can stop using it because of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think it can limit the type of people who will be able to benefit from different types of technology. So obviously a financial burden if it's high is going to limit the type of people who can afford to use it or people with disabilities and things along those lines.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then just contributing to overall negative user experience.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I kinda talked about the end result of a lot of research. Now I'm gonna kinda go back and talk to you a little bit more about how we built up to that. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I first signed up for Facebook, and I was like, oh yeaah, I can check it a couple times a day, and it won't be much of a time burden, because they've been using it for a year, and they're like, oh my god, I'm spending an hour a day on it, that's way more than I thought. So I don't know if we've...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Can predict what people will be thinking, uhm, but we can certainly kind of compare out how it changes over time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, so the, the question is kind of did we, uhm, control for whether there was a positive or negative abandonment. And there is some interesting work, I think there was some at UBComp last year that was talking about like graduating from technology, so like you needed a technology as a support.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know. Yeaah. I don't know. Uhm, and we didn't ca- we just said a system that you're using that you no longer use. And so I think a lot of all those things came up because a lot of times people don't use a phone anymore because it's obsolete. Uhm, and that's not necessarily a burden issue. Uhm, so that could also be a reason why they stopped using a technology just because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, yeaah, so as I mentioned, so uhm, that was kind of the, the output of, of what we did, but this was actually built up through, uhm, a large number of, of studies, uhm, and technology designs that I've done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's probably going to be kind of firehose like in terms of summarizing a lot of the stuff that my group has done. Uhm, so kind of going to talk to you a little bit about a number of different studies and I do put the papers on there so if you want to learn more or if you want to have follow up questions we can but this will probably be a pretty big overview.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so uhm, the first thing that we had looked at was looking at this emotional burden. So this had come up by working on technology for parents, uhm, and looking at tracking things like do, does my kid have early warning signs of autism or developmental delay. Uhm, and a lot of people had talked about how


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, they were really scared to get that news through a technology or tracking it made them feel bad or like they were doing something wrong. So this, this idea of, of emotional burden kind of came up through, through talking to people in that context. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we ran a study of uhm, you know, how we can design interfaces that might convey potentially bad news around health, uhm, but convey it in a way that minimizes emotional burden was our kind of question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so we had interviewed doctors and patients, uhm, who'd experienced diagnosis of a chronic condition, uhm, to talk about things like information needs, uhm, and reviewed medical training recommendations. So how do they train doctors to kind of share this news? So we reviewed a lot of the, the literature from that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, to find out what sort of things help with, with kind of conveying things to minimize emotional burden around these things because you don't want to necessarily hide information from people but you want to convey it in a way that will cause them to act or, uhm, make them be informed as opposed to avoiding it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so things that we talked about, that we learned were uhm, people want to, definitely want to access to the information, but in a way that's sensitive and emotional to their fears and anxieties. So things like, acknowledging that it's normal to feel guilty, you know, people who didn't use their, didn't walk, maybe like, it's normal to feel bad that you didn't walk today, just acknowledging that potential, uhm, burden.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then also giving them actionable information is a great thing to do as well. So if you say like,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it looks like you didn't meet your step goal today. If you immediately gave them an action right with that news, then it went over much better than sort of giving them no actionable information. So if you set a suggestion like next time, why don't you try leaving the house five minutes early to walk to the next bus stop. If you gave them like a specific actionable recommendation, that came over much better for people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That was kind of what guided a lot of our thinking and emotional burdens. Uhm, we looked at, uhm, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Privacy burdens a bit, uhm, so this is a study I'd done, uhm, a couple years back with folks at Intel Labs when it was still existing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but we were interested in, in how people perceive things like privacy in the home, uhm, for things like sensing systems. So uhm, but it's really hard to ask questions about privacy without knowing specific scenarios in which, or the context in which potential privacy


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, breaches would happen. Uhm, so what we did was we did a four week, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, oh yeaah, so the question was, you know, how do we, uhm, what, what, what was the receptiveness to, to uhm, privacy concerns?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we did a four-week cultural probe where we sent them home with a camera, a diary, and what we called, uhm, sensor proxies. Uhm, so these are essentially just, uhm, uh, light sensors with a motion sensor on it. So light, lights with a motion sensor on it. So you walk by and the light turns on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We put a little question mark around that and we told them to treat that as a sensor, uhm, and pretend that when this, you see this light turn on, pretend that that moment was just captured by some sort of sensing system.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] To give them a sense of like, oh gosh, I just walked by that and it turned on and I'm naked, yo. And so, you know, they wouldn't have necessarily thought of that scenario unless they had been in it. And we had them keep a diary of those sort of incidents that came up. Or the light came on and they had a neighbor over and they didn't, the neighbor's like, what is that light there? And that kind of got them thinking about things like notification and whatnot.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so yeaah, there's a lot of mental effort in trying to remember that these things were, uh, recording, sort of social issues that came up with privacy in terms of notification and sharing, uhm, and so those are some of the things that had kind of, uh, got to our thinking about the privacy burden.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we did a lot of work in the, the sleep space, so we did a, a big qualitative study looking at how we can use technologies for sensing sleep. Uhm, so we were interested in sort of, uhm, you, it was, it was relatively underexplored at the time, so we wanted to, to look at what are the, the opportunities and challenges in the space.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we did a literature review, we did a contextual inquiry at the Sleep Lab, uhm, at the University of Washington, and we did a big survey and interviews, uhm, with potential users of these technologies, uhm, to kind of get this deep, uhm, insight into the sleep space.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, you know, so at the time, you know, there was lots of wrist-worn things. There were also like headbands. And, you know, people just had this sort of aversion to wearing things on their body. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then also things like remembering to record. So some of the mental burdens came out of this work was thinking about uhm, you know, Fitbit at the time you had to push a button to start it and stop it. And you people said like, oh when I fall asleep at night I always forget to do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that was just sort of a remembrance thing, or when I wake up in the morning, the first thing I want to do is crawl out of bed and go get my coffee and get in the shower. I'm not wanting to log anything at that point, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then, you know, manual tracking is always harder when you're sleep deprived. So people wanted things like super, super easy. They said don't make me think at all when I'm sleepy or sleep deprived. Uhm, so this is sort of where some of those other aspects of burdens came out. Uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The, we did a, also work on sort of uhm, what we called the like extremely successful people, uh, in quantifying self, the quantified selfers. So, these are the people who are doing all sorts of technologies and using them to, you know, uhm, almost an extreme. Uhm, so we thought it would be really interesting. It's like, okay, if the people who are really successful, if they find things burdensome, then what can we learn about them?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so I'd say that they are successful in sort of accomplishing what many people have difficulty doing, and that's keeping large amounts of data about their behavior. So, you know, you know, things like in the general population, if you keep a sleep diary for even more than a day, uhm, you're probably seeing this great, whereas quantified selfers are doing things like for years at a time. So kind of looking at that from that, that perspective.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, uh, yeah, so we want to know about, you know, what, what are people learning about the ways that they track technology and how we can be informed by that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so we did an analysis of, uhm, 52 posts. So the, the Quantified Self Community has a blog post where they post, uhm, 15 minute talks of people sharing their experience. And so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We watched 52 of these videos and coded them for various aspects and they, they, they talk about the, the videos have a very set format where they're asking about what did I do, uhm, how did I do it and what did I learn? Uhm, so that would give us a nice structure for, for analyzing those things and so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What we learned is that even though these are sort of this, this case of people who are doing this amazing thing, and not only were they able to do it, but they were able to stand up and talk about it for 15 minutes. So that's why we mean by kind of these pretty successful people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and what we learned is that, you know, people, even quantified selfers, get burned out. Uhm, so we learned that the, the number one thing that they, they, they even called it, they deemed it the classic newbie mistake, which was trying to track too much at once, uhm, too soon.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so they would get all excited because they're motivated at first and they'd track everything at once.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then, so that was sort of this, and they burned out really quickly, even the, the, uh, uhm, the highly motor evil burned out quickly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, they learn, they learn that not knowing the right things attracts. So they often track something like they wanted to figure out uhm, what was causing their headaches. And so they just logged every time they had a headache. But they forgot to log things like the context around the headache. So they had a log of like, okay, I had


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Spent all this effort tracking all this stuff, but they didn't actually know what to do with it. And that kind of led it to the inconclusive data where they said they had all this data, but they couldn't actually draw the conclusions they wanted from it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then lastly this is a, a new thing that we've been looking at. So I've been also looking at, you know, burdens of technology within family context as well. And so, uhm, this is a paper that we presented at CCW this year that was looking at the rules that family have, families have around, uhm, technology use. Uhm, and this is kind of getting at the social burdens of this. Uhm, so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Our questions were, how are families currently setting and keeping rules for both parents and children? So we had


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Parents describe the rules that they have for their child and for themselves. And we had children rate, the rules that their parents have assigned them, as well as the rules that they wish that their parents followed. Uhm, so it's kinda getting that kid's perspective also about, you know, what should parents be doing. Uhm, we heard a lot of things like, you know, be present. And a lot of kids don't want their kids, their parents to text and drive either, apparently that came up too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we had a little bit of media around this as well and of course the, uhm, the big rule that was actually kind of a minor part of our study was that parents were being, uh, kids didn't want their parents posting about them on social media. Uhm, meaning like, don't post pictures of me on Facebook Mom.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but, you know, what we did was we actually surveyed, uhm, 249 parent-child dyads. So the parent took a survey, then they got their child to come and take the survey, uhm, and they had similar sets of questions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, about themselves. And then, uhm, the other thing we did was ask about uhm, how hard or easy it was to follow as well. Uhm, so, you know, and so we learned about which, which rules that parents made that were easy to follow versus those that were hard to follow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and you know things that we learned was obviously technology distracts from being present. And that was the number one request of the kids, of their parents was to be present with me. Don't look at your phone the whole time. I want you to look at me when I'm talking to you. And that came out quite a bit, especially with our younger families.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, there's issues around privacy when things got older. So parents said, like, their rule was that their kids had to give them their login and password for every account that they created. Of course, like a 13 year old who's just getting started is like, okay mom, that's fine. But as the kid got older,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That wasn't quite as much of an issue. That was much more of an issue as the kid got older. So there's sort of these changing needs as the kids get older.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then all this management also took time away from setting these rules that took time away from family time as well. So even just managing technology in general would take it away.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, this is kind of not related to user burden, but one of our big findings was things like uhm, that we were surprised about was that uhm, context-based rules were much harder to follow than uhm, just straight out banning rules. So things like, what I mean by context rules was that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, no phones at the dinner table was hard, uh, as opposed to kind of an activity-based rule like no Instagram. Like it was actually easier for kids to say I'm okay and it's easy to follow the no Instagram rule than it is no phones at the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So these rules that are around like not using the phone in certain contexts like at church or while driving or in certain locations are much harder to follow than the rules that were just


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Don't post about, you know, sexual stuff or, you know, don't talk to strangers online. Those were actually easier to follow than the ones that were kind of these more contextual rules. But,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's a stronger desire for these context rules because they're more meaningful, right? I don't care what you're doing on your phone as long as you're not disrupting family time. So there was sort of this desire to have more rules around context, but they're actually harder to follow and enforce. So I think there's an opportunity in design for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that was sort of these larger sort of formative studies that we had done that informed a lot of our thinking around user burden, uhm, and led to sort of our, our initial set of the, the, the, we started out with in our, our scale 120 questions, uhm, and then those ended up being narrowed down to 20. So, uhm, and that's how we did our, our, uhm, development of the constructs. But,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now that we have a good understanding of user burden, we want to know how can we reduce it as well. So what can we do through design or through other sorts of things to help reduce each of these burdens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so we've designed a number of different tools that try to address different burdens. Uhm, and, you know, through all of this is what we realized is that, and I think I kind of alluded to this earlier, it's impossible to probably minimize every single burden at once. You know, there's always going to be some trade-off.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So for example, you might want to minimize privacy burdens because people very much care about their privacy. But then by lowering the privacy burden, you're raising the mental effort associated with sort of managing that privacy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think privacy is pretty important for people on Facebook and that's probably why they ended up with this pretty complex set of privacy rules because it's impossible to sort of minimize privacy while also minimizing mental effort and understanding at the same time.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So uhm, so in each of these I talk about kind of the burdens that we try to prioritize in each of our designs and how we try to address that particular burden. But in doing that sometimes we raise the burden in other ways.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so for some people said like, oh, there's a huge emotional burden with Facebook when people post like depressing sad things. And that's honestly Facebook's fault. It's your friend's fault, right? Uhm, so people had sort of trouble separating themselves from that and uhm, I know that's kind of tangential to what you're saying, but I think also your questions are about do they feel like they had control over the burden that was, yeaah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I'm not sure we did that specific type of analysis. I suspect there might be some of that, right? So like uhm, you know, there's always one person in the diet who's sort of more aware than the other of that this is an issue. Uhm, so like the oblivious parent is sitting there texting while the child's sitting there like, I want you to watch my soccer game, right? Uhm, or yeah, versus like the


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's hard to say, I'm not sure. We'd have to look into the data a little bit more, but I suspect there could be definitely unequal amounts of that. Some of it had to do with also probably just values as a family.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, some people, we were hearing a lot of things about rules like uhm, you know, no, no screens between like 5 and 7 o'clock at night. Uhm, and so that was sort of, the family had set that as a rule and so then people were more on the same page.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, then people who, sort of like, the parent was like, I'm just gonna set these rules and everyone's gonna follow them no matter what. Uhm, so the, it seemed, that was another finding was that the, the rules that were sort of set together with input from the children and everyone in it were much more likely to be followed than the ones that were sort of set, you know, kind of authoritatively or,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so I mentioned I did a bunch of stuff in the sleep space, and that actually was a really interesting area to explore different types of burdens, because there's a bunch of stuff relating to sleep with that. But, you know, when we first started this work, we actually wanted to start out with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and this is sort of a reaction to the, the survey we did with uhm, the participants who just said like, I don't want to think about this, you know, don't make me do anything while I'm groggy and sleepy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, tracking is really burdensome, all these sorts of things, but I want to know how to make myself healthier. So there's sort of this, they didn't want to do anything, but they wanted to have a benefit, which, you know, wouldn't it be great if we could do that. So we thought, well, could we actually design something that didn't require any sort of input or, or effort at all?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so our first experiment with that was looking at uhm, looking at just a passive wallpaper, active wallpaper that would update throughout the day and inform people of when the different types of activities might have an impact on their sleep or not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so the idea is that things like if you drink caffeine after a certain time of day, it can impact your sleep negatively. If you exercise within so many hours of going to bed, it can impact your, uhm, lives, uhm, it can impact your sleep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you drink alcohol before a certain amount of time, then uhm, that can also impact your sleep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but then if you also start to relax before going to bed, that can help your sleep. But it's hard to keep track of all these things. Uhm, so the idea is that all they would do when they download the app was set up their wake up, their ideal wake up time and their ideal sleep time. That was the only entering they had to do and they just let it go.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Throughout the day it would actually update. So the idea is that this white vertical line is, uhm, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, the current time and then if the line is thin, that means if you did that right now, activity right now would have a negative impact on your sleep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, if the line is thick, if you do the activity now, it probably wouldn't have a negative impact on the sleep. So it is, you can kind of get a sense of the circadian rhythm going on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and throughout the day, so I can quickly glance and say, okay, it's 6.30, it's too late for coffee, uh, it's too late for napping, uh, napping is actually really only good at that time after lunch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, it's still okay to exercise, still okay to eat, alcohol, woohoo. Uh, but not quite time to start relaxing yet. So they gotta get a quick sense of that as they're doing their other things throughout the day. So no tracking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] At least 8 of our 12 participants, uhm, were able to increase their, their sleepiness level, or sorry, decrease their overall daytime sleepiness levels just by having this app alone. Uhm, so even without any effort whatsoever, we were able to find some improvement, uhm, overall without any burden whatsoever in terms of that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so we kind of said this is targeting, you know, we didn't want to have people wear anything or have them remember to track anything. So this is kind of looking at the mental burdens and the physical burdens trying to reduce those in particular.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So another example of this was that, then, then we ran the study and you know, people never know what they want, but they, the people in that study said like, oh I want, it would be great if I could actually track my caffeine use. I'm like, okay, you told us before that you didn't want to track anything and then after you used this for a month you said you do want to track these things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, say that, okay, well what would tracking add to this if we were going to add, uhm, something, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, we're trying to focus in on, you know, people don't want to go through and enter in all these complicated things. They don't have to think very much. Uhm, so again, we're sort of utilizing the, the lock screen here and wanted to do these one tap manual entries.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, because a lot of the things related to sleep are actually hard to sense automatically, uhm, or are pretty onerous to sense in general, or privacy concerning. If you log everything, then it might increase the privacy burden. So, the idea was to make a super simple, super easy, uhm, tracking tool for capturing moments of your day throughout that have an impact on your sleep.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so we used the, the Android block screen widgets and made just a button so you just have to turn on your phone and you can tap, uhm, I had a caffeinated beverage, I exercised.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a cigarette and I had medication and it will create this log of you and kind of give you this visualization.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then you can kind of come up with these, and we did have them fill out a sleep diary in the beginning, but you could also use a, a, a, just a, a sleep sensing tool as well, but for our study we had them manually log those things in the beginning of the day. Uhm, and then you can kind of get to see, uhm, uh, over time, uhm, which of the factors you're doing would, uhm, have an impact on,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you can kind of get a sense of, oh yea, if I had caffeine after 6 o'clock, it looks like I got worse sleep that night. So you can kind of start to make those connections together.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We still don't think this is the best way to do it, and I'll allude to that in a minute. Uhm, but, you know, the idea was just to make it super dead simple, no time, you know, reducing the time burden, reducing the mental effort associated with that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We also found that just by having it on the lock screen, it was a great reminder to just log it quickly. Uhm, so it was also reducing sort of the having to remember, oh, I gotta go ahead and do that because they'd look at their phone and say, oh, yep, I'm drinking coffee right now, do it right there. So did a good job of minimizing those particular burdens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, also in the sleep space, uh, we wanted to look at things like, uhm, looking at the environmental and how environment and how that can have an impact on sleep. So things like the light levels, the temperature levels, the sound levels in the room can all have an impact on sleep. Uhm, again, people want to try and figure out what their disruptors were since they're different for different people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That uhm, the ideal conditions in the room are either present or not present for those things. And so uhm, yeaah, the sleep literature recommends keeping your bedroom between like you, I think 58 degrees and 70 degrees. So we give them just a green light or red light if they're within the recommended range.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As well as uhm, light levels and uhm, noise levels and we had motion sensors for tech, detecting things like, you know, pets in the room or children coming in and those sorts of things, so uhm, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is sort of to give people a broad understanding of it. And then, uhm, we were able to generate graphs of, of the different, uhm, uh, uhm, patterns on their sleep levels in combination with those environmental sensors.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but this is actually, we, and we recorded videos so they could go into there. So the videos of the bedroom were actually pretty privacy invasive, but they were necessary for people to sort of investigate what was going on. Uhm, so to really think about like how to control the privacy there. Uhm, so we had really quick one touch, turn on and off the camera or just the recording.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, as well as, you know, from our studies, you know, things happen in the bedroom that you don't want recorded, uh, especially if you have a partner. Uh, and so we had a really quickly delete last hour, uhm, as well as a, uh, delete more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, we had to be able to do this in such a way that we could kind of delete the things that they didn't want to see, uhm, but still make it useful. So if they want to go in and do this analysis of, you know, the light levels, uhm, uh, were they actually, you know, impacting my sleep or not. So they still need to be useful to them without, while trying to minimize the privacy burden.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So that was the thing. Again, we learned that just capturing things isn't enough, so I'm going to talk about what we're going to do next in that regard.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, this one was more about, uhm, we did a project looking at how the visually impaired might be able to be helped with exercise.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, the idea that many exercise classes and extra games are not accessible because they require you to line up your body with the screen and if you can't see the screen then obviously you can't do that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so my student Kyle Rector did a project looking at how you make a yoga based game that you'll only use as a visual channel to help people with things like correcting yoga postures and being able to perform exercise.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so that was sort of minimizing the difficulty or accessibility issues. Uhm, and then the idea that most of the time if they want to do an exercise class, like go to a yoga class, many people, especially if they live, uh, remotely, have to travel large distances to get to those special classes that are accessible. Uhm, so that was sort of reducing the time burden there. Uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm going to quickly go through this since I'm running a little bit on time, but uhm, the other thing we wanted to look at, this is in the family context as well, but a lot of, because parents were concerned about the amount of time that their, their families were using on technology, we developed a tool called MyTime. This is also going to be presented at CHI next month, uhm, but looking at,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Letting people determine which of their apps on their phone are time-wasting or disruptive to the family and monitoring those.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and they were also to encourage them to do other things. They were, at the beginning of the day, they were encouraged to enter a goal, uhm, for the day that they would like to do instead of doing these things. So they did, like, you know, go for a walk outside or talk with my family. A lot of times, like, spend time with my family was the biggest thing there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so we did a multiple baseline study where they had the intervention for, or they didn't have the intervention for uhm, about a week and we randomized that and they switched over to using it and we actually saw just a 21


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 21% decrease in the amount of time. Just with this simple intervention we were able to show the 21% decrease in the amount of time on time wasting apps just with this simple intervention there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, lastly, uhm, I talked about the sleep stuff and how it was not so useful to just collect a bunch of data.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and actually doing it in a more systematic way will help people find the answers to the questions that they want to be able to answer. Uhm, so we thought about how we can help people run little mini self experiments to answer those questions. So most of what people wanted to get out, and this came up a lot from the quantified self stuff, people were tracking these things because they had a specific question. What's causing my headaches? You know, why do I have abdominal pain?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, you know, what's disrupting my sleep at night? And you know, a lot of the tools will allow you to sort of collect all this data and you have to sort of make that conclusion on your own. Uhm, but they're actually not really able to, to make that connection for you. Uhm, but what you really need to do is actually do, some days you control something and some days you take that out. Uhm, and you look at what happens on those days.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so we're developing a tool right now to allow people to do these self experiments, uhm, starting with irritable bowel syndrome, but also looking at things like, uhm, uh, insomnia and smoking cravings, uhm, but looking at how we can


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, an 8 to 12 day randomized trial and we tell them to basically, you know, eat your normal breakfast but remove, you know, replace it with lactose free milk on these days. So it'll randomize them to which days they drink the lactose free milk and then on the other days they have it and then we have them log their symptoms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then we have some visualizations to help them look at, you know, these are the days that, you know, if they're testing caffeine, these are the days that I had caffeine and what my, my symptoms were like and these are the days of no caffeine.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, we're, we're working on, we're still, this is still a work in progress, but we're also should experiment things like, you know, significance and p-values and that sort of thing, but it turns out most people don't really get that. So just looking at it visually is actually much more helpful for people and giving a recommendation that it's highly likely that your symptoms are caused by, uhm, caffeine or not caused by caffeine and giving them feedback there. Uhm.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, lastly, yeaah, I mentioned the, uhm, the, the, in the very beginning a lot of this work was, was motivated by your parents having this emotional burden associated with things like tracking development in their young kids.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so this is a project that we are looking at for helping parents from, of children ages 0 to 5 track developmental progress, uhm, and identify early if they have signs of developmental delay, like things like speech delays or, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anxiety disorders or things along those lines. Uhm, and we wanted to do this in a way that was motivating to people to be able to do this and would reduce the emotional burden associated with this idea that something could be wrong with your kid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and uhm, also do it in a way that was accessible. So we were working with the state of Washington and they had the goal of screening every single child in the state regardless of access to technology or income levels.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and there, so we had two kind of goals with this one which was reducing the financial burden of people who couldn't necessarily afford smartphones and things along those lines.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, a website that also is accessible via a mobile phone. Uhm, we have a Twitter-based tool where they can actually answer developmental questions through Twitter, uhm, as well as a text messaging only version that they can answer developmental screen questions just through text message. So the idea being they didn't have internet at home, they could use just the text messaging tool.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then also for the emotional burden, you know, we did a lot of work on trying to come up with a visualization that would show the kids' developmental progress.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It was enough to convey the information and encourage people to take action on it, but not yet.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Show them on a percentile chart that their kid is, you know, two second percentile. So that was really nerve wracking to a lot of people.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I know I went through those really quickly, but do you guys have any questions on any of those?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so from their perspective, controlling your diet and stuff isn't necessarily a known way of treating irritable bowel syndrome.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, so it's not seen as being treated as sort of a kind of lifestyle choice, and so it sort of falls into that area, but.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We, we did write an article on sort of this, you know, self-experimentation in general. And you, you could self-experiment with your, uhm, anxiety meds. You could self-experiment with, uh, other things. And we specifically...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But yeaah, it does depend on the domain and kind of what you're trying. Uhm, but if you were sort of testing whether or not a medication was helpful for irritable bowel syndrome, it might start to fall under that. Uhm, but we're in a pretty open platform right now, so people can kind of self-define what they want and try their own things. But we do recommend not to do those particular things.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, it could be any number of things that impacted that. So if you just say like, okay, show me all the days that I drank caffeine and what my sleep level was like that day. Well, it could be that you drank more caffeine because you were tired and therefore it was infecting your thing. So we wanted to try to minimize that altogether.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which is why we do this random assignment. So, yeaah, this is more before the fact and what you're going to track. So, today, don't drink any caffeine after three o'clock.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, uhm, tomorrow, drink caffeine at 6 o'clock, and you know, we alternate on those days. And that will minimize a lot of those other things, as opposed to like, oh, I had a stressful work day, so I had, uhm, caffeine that day, which, but it turns out the stress was the cause of your sleep and not the actual caffeine. It was, so that's sort of trying to isolate the, the particular ones, which is why, you know, doing these sort of after-the-fact correlations is problematic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] One of their, the impact that they were having on them and so our scales are actually pretty well designed in terms of like it was more impact on their day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, as opposed to like this kind of subjective feeling. So, and that's a little bit, so we try to keep with more objective measures for that because there's a possibility of placebo effect in some of these cases. So, as much as we can do to sort of look at the objectiveness of it as opposed to the subjective rating.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, in some cases, placebo is okay too. Um, yeah, placebo works in some cases. So if that, if that works in minimizing your symptoms, maybe it's okay too. Yeah.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so the parents were, so it was uhm, it was automatically, uh, tweeted through our, our tool there. Uhm, and parents would just say yes, sometimes they're not yet. It wasn't sort of doing the smart analysis of things. There are people who are looking at some of that stuff, we weren't, we were just looking at parents explicitly answering the question.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good question. So it's actually a set of 22 questionnaires over a five-year period. So we're looking at, and there's 30 questions per questionnaire.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so we're looking at, you know, over, uhm, over 300 question, or more than that, uh, over the lifetime of a child. And that's per kid too. So you have multiple kids, you have to answer them for each child. So that was why we wanted to meet them throughout there. Uhm, it depends on the age of the child actually. So there's a lot more questions when the kid is younger, but then when they get older, it's like one questionnaire every six months.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In talking with advocates for Latino families, they said a lot of times they would get prepaid phones and turn them off. Uhm, so you couldn't necessarily space it out so it was like one question per day because they may not have their phone on after they turn it off because they had a prepaid plan and they ran out of minutes.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so just in conclusion, uhm, we have some just general strategies that we've sort of tried to bubble up as ways of reducing user burden in general.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, first is that, you know, embedding actions into activities that people are already doing is a really successful way of doing that. So this was apparent in our, our Baby Steps tool where people are already on Twitter and they're already doing other things. So we can also just ask them questions while they're doing those things. So if somebody's already doing something, that's a great way to sort of also add on something, uhm, that they're, they're doing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Providing multiple options for achieving goals. So, you know, obviously if some people find some type of technology more burdensome than another, you're giving them multiple options will help reduce burden in general because then they can choose the tool that they're most comfortable with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, try to, and this is sort of a, a, a kind of uhm, platitude of, of human computer interaction in general, but know your users. Know what's most, burdens are most important to them. Uhm, knowing your users will really help you sort of prioritize which ones, because again, you can't reduce them all at once.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and yeaah. Figure out what those trade-offs are. If you raise one, lower one burden, you raise another. So figure out what those trade-offs are going to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then this is sort of getting a little bit of that value question. So uhm, we found that people were really motivated, who were really motivated, like quantified solvers were willing to put up with like large amounts of burden because they were highly motivated. Where someone who's just kind of curious, oh, you know, I want to see what my levels are like, you know, they were much less likely to put up with


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, large amounts of user burden. So try to figure out the motivation level of your user and try to match the burden with that particular, uhm, uh, uh, motivation level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and then finally, through all of this, you know, we realize that like data is actually pretty burdensome in general. Uh, it's like kind of, you know, we're in this big data, let's collect all the data that we can.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but the more data you have, the more time it takes to do, the more privacy burdens it reduces, it comes up, the more you have to think about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so that was what we were thinking a lot with our self-experimentation stuff is like what's the minimum amount of things that we actually have to


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We tried to narrow it down to the minimum amount of data needed to actually answer the question that they wanted to do. So that was another key insight.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, and uhm, one of the other things is that our scale right now only works for people who have already used the technology. Uhm, we'd love to be able to know early on and early stage prototyping if we can sort of predict it or


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] No earlier on while we're designing it that this is going to have a burden. So we're trying to think of ideas of how we can try and learn that earlier on without having to have them actually use the technology in the first place.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, so I have many amazing students. I try to put their names up wherever possible. Uhm, lots of cool people gave me money, so thanks to them. And thanks to you guys.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What? Good morning, everybody. Great morning, everybody. Sorry about that sound quality this morning. I don't know what's going on with the app. It really doesn't matter.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, as far as what we're gonna do here today. And that's what I'm looking forward. What an exciting morning over here. Yeah, yep, the music's not on. Could you hear the mic though, right? Mic test one two one two.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Awesome. We're all on the same page. We're ready to go. Yup. For whatever reason, the streaming, the streaming app this morning, ecom live that I've been using for quite a while. They have a different type of update. I can't get both the microphone and the sound from the system itself playing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Whatever, we gotta keep going. That's not a big deal. What's a big deal is what we're about to do over here. Nevertheless, I had to have the music going on my end. I gotta, I gotta have the music playing. I have to see all of you saying good morning, good afternoon. What's going on everyone? Checking in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As we get going here, uh, finding out. And it's a beautiful morning, right? Seeing Bitcoin touching $50,000. I think all of us are watching this pattern that we're in though, right? This channel over here. So as you're coming up into that $50,000 level, it's, it's nice. We have some excitement. There's, there's no question about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People are excited. I checked in on Twitter briefly and I see a lot of $50,000 posts. I saw it last night from like CZ and from Anthony Papalano. Everyone seems to be.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right Peter, is it the time to really, not really, you know, we have, we have a mission to accomplish.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But it's, you know, we have to break out of this consolidation pattern to really get going over here. And if we break out to the upside and if Bitcoin starts breaking out, then I'll be a little more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the process of trying to do that. If you're asking if Bitcoin is cheap,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or if you're thinking it's too expensive, I would like you to just reframe that to yourself and understand that it is still cheap. What do I mean by that? Well, do you think in the next several months we can have a 6x on this? You know, that's pretty significant. A 6x move?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In that type of time frame, right? Sure, you could get, Cardano just had a, like an 8axe in it, right? Cardano just had an 8axe in just a couple of months and it's a beautiful move.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And if you were tracking that and if you were there and you positioned yourself into it and you got through the pain first, as Bitcoin was, was just pumping and pumping, doing its thing as it should, right? Then, then you're catching up here now. But Bitcoin is Bitcoin, right? Uh, and anyway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's where we bring ourselves. When I say that, I want to talk about Bitcoin being cheap right now at $50,000. Right, this is huge news, Alan.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is, I'm sorry I don't have that up here. I should have it up here from this morning. I did bookmark it actually to share with you. Uh, thanks my, Michael Seller.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But we'll stay in the flow of them, but they'll get about as much attention as they deserve. We're gonna go, we're gonna go through all of FX today, every single pair. It's Tuesday, making sure we see what's going on. If there's any opportunity out there, at all.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But I'm focusing over here. Uh, so, you know, you can check back in later if you want to see the goods. But that's what we got going over here. We're on day 279 here since the halving.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? 279 days after ha- after having. You can see that right now we continue to be on pace somewhere between the first and the second cycle. Very, very easy monetary conditions. And we're gonna talk a lot about the different types of monetary con- the different types.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Good morning everybody. Good morning. We're going to be talking about the most significant, uhm, signal that we know of right now. The monetary policy, how that's affecting different assets and how that's going to continue to affect different assets until something breaks.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? How much, how much time do we have before the Fed even begins to think about tapering? It's gonna be quite a while.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? It's gonna be quite a while. We have to make sure that you are positioned and able to ride the trend. If you didn't see oil,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rising with all commodities, you're, you're just missing what's going on. If you're a dollar bull, oh yeah, well, well, guess what? The dollar's up, you know, 0.8% today, 0.8%, 0.08% today. Great.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Dollars sideways. If anyone's looking at the dollar and they're wondering what's going on with the dollar, first of all, you're not, you're not spending your time here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? You're not spending your time here, otherwise you would not be asking that question. Cause we look at that, we've said that the other is going sideways for a while. And there it is consolidating sideways, right? Out of play, irrelevant.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Same thing with over here with Gold. Gold on the back foot today. Gold's exciting, right? Gold's exciting.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then what about silver? Silver getting rejected at the 2764 resistance over here. Still looks, still looks uber, uber healthy. Anything above 26 is very bullish on, on silver. Silver continues to make higher lows and higher highs in this consolidation period right now. It's not breaking out, right? But, but certain things are.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's probably where you should draw your own attention to if it's not there. Right? You should probably follow the flow.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Pay a little bit more attention listening and learning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know? And asking good questions when appropriate. That's how you do it, right? So either which way, we're looking at Bitcoin $50,000. Where are we gonna be, right? By the end of June?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Bitcoin $100,000. That's a, that's a price target I've thrown out there. What I believe is going to happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is that, is that a little conservative or is that right on time? We're soon going to find out. We're in an area right now where it looks like on the first and second cycle, we're running upwards. I've been saying coming into the cycle, I think that we're going to have this bit of area where we're going to be rising $70,000, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Before, within the next 60 days, what is that next 50 days now? It seems appropriate as Bitcoin is hitting $50,000. That's when I said that now we should be euphoric.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But that, but that we're gonna have real FOMO from institutions begin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And here we are now. Now we've reached that milestone. And guess what? You have other corporations. That was a surprise. No, I wasn't ex- we were expecting the institutions, large funds to come in, right? Maybe even pensions, right? But, but corporate companies, what Michael Seller did? Absolutely groundbreaking.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Elon Musk has followed with a 1.5 billion dollar purchase of Bitcoin. Who's next? Because right now they're all looking at what's happening and they're seeing the price of Bitcoin rise.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They have to start following within the next, within the next 60 days, within the next 60 days, it takes about six weeks to follow Michael Seller's playbook company's president president at Michael strategies, corporate conference within the next six weeks. Will we see any type of announcements of other companies have putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're gonna find out right over here, you know, we're not FOMO-ing, but now, cause we're positioned.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We're positioned in. Now it's time for everyone else to begin FOMOing. How do you like them apples? Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you could go back Cindy, you could go back on the stream on that, pull back that red dot and go look at silver.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want to see that again or hear that again, we're going to take a look here at the equity markets, not wait.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Excuse me, Ethereum sideways consolidating looks so beautiful.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It looks so beautiful, right? Uh, question, why do I say that? New all-time highs, right here, consolidating, right? This thing is getting ready to go. Are we gonna start seeing...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Any type of, uhm, are we seeing institutional money coming into Ethereum? Look at the, look at the personages on great scale. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is Cardano good? By the way, just a heads up warning to everyone out there. Brandon, I hope that you are listening to everyone else. That, listen, usually when you have what's taking place on Cardano right now, you're seeing a pump, a run up, as it's coming up into a mainnet launch.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As that happens, that's normally when you see a lot of volatility.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of volatility. Usually the volatility is going upwards to the launch. And then after that, there's usually a lot of profit taking, especially in crypto. Watch out. Could that be an opportunity for those who would like to position themselves in the project going forward?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yes. Will it be trading down lower than it is today? You know, could it trade back down to 40 cents?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These are questions you have to be asking yourself. These are things you have to be worrying, worrying about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Just watch, go, go to EOS, watch what happened when they launched. That's one that sticks out in my mind. You know, there was a huge run up of price up until, until the mainnet launch and then bull. I seen it happen so many times in 2017. It's just ingrained in my mind. Big, big, big, uh, just cautious, cautious note over there.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, you could trade the Chinese Yuan onshore and offshore Vincent, but the question is, is do you want to be trading the Yuan?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, I mean, you can trade the, you could trade the offshore right now on Olanda.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you're interested in, in the currency markets, you're interested in FX, there's some prevalent trends going on. Is one of them in the dollar, downwards, right now consolidating sideways? Yeah. Is one of them against the yen? The most prevalent one is against the yen, the weakening yen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? You're seeing that take place or, or, or depreciate most, uh, against commodity currencies.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Is this, by the way, this is Australian dollar, Japanese yen. Is this trade done over here, you think?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you think that like, you know, if, if we were to see any type of risk off in the markets, you would see this. And look over here. This is when we had huge risk off in the markets. You see this area over here?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a risk off in the markets. We're involved in this. Australian dollar, Japanese yen, New Zealand dollar, Japanese yen, Australian dollar, New Zealand dollar, Swiss franc.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Some of the biggest trades made in 2020 came off of this. Jesse, big shout out to Jesse. It's been a while since I've seen you, my brother, but you were, you were involved in those trades and they were big ones. Probably the best trades of your life.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Probably the best trades of your life. And I kept saying to everyone, you're no longer a swing trader. You're a position trader. You're a position trader. You have to hold these trades because something has changed.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's very rare you see markets crashing. When they're crashing, it's obvious. But you can no longer trade as you either do. Anyway, if that happens, when that happens next, we'll be there together. We will adapt to what's taking place and then it will be instructive. Right now it's instructive. This is when the Fed acted.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Over here, what's the signal that we're looking at? We're looking at the enormous central bank, uh, intervention in the markets. The massive amount of QE purchases taking place monthly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The federal reserve alone expanding their balance sheet this year by $1.4 trillion. The ECB is only slightly lagging that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] People calling that, that perhaps, perhaps a central bank might fail this year. It might be the ECB, or right now we have massive amount of liquidity being pumped. And could you imagine if there's any talk about a central bank failing? How concerned the central banks, there's much be themselves.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Either which way, are we talking about tapering? Are we looking at tapering? Jerome Powell.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Fed Chairman Jerome Powell has been absolutely abundantly clear on a couple of things. First of all, it can't be the Fed alone. They need stimulus from the government. Right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Government just stepped in with $1.9 trillion stimulus bill. Is it the last? How will that money be spent? Where will it be spent? We're going to find out those details. We're going to see what is next, right? The green energy initiative is already underway. It's already underway. It's happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These things are in motion, right? And we're looking at this reflation trade. Now you have people who are like, you know, whether it's Brent Johnson or Raoul Pal, they're like, no, I think that's the wrong trade. I think everyone's on that trade.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really? Because I thought everyone was on the markets are gonna, you know, crash and be in solvent trade and, and yada, yada, yada. How much further does this have to go before it stops? Are you thinking about an exit? Do you think about?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And exit before something changes fundamentally in the markets. What will that next fundamental change be? When will it be?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, could things go from, from bad to worse? Could we see for example, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, what type of spending will we see from the government? Jerome Powell has been clear on two things. One is that we need more spending from, from the government, from the US government. And the second was that they're going to continue to have a very easy monetary policy. They're not looking to take off the brakes. They're not looking to remove any of their QB purchases. The question is six months from now, seven months from now,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? So we have 6-7 months of status quo as is right now, unless something changes. Could the stock markets crash and what happens if the stock markets crash? Why would the stock markets crash?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In this moment. I don't see any catalyst. One of those catalysts would be the Fed begins raising rates. Oh, okay. Now maybe we're headed towards a possibility where we're gonna start seeing the stock market under pressure. Could the market force rates to rise? That's something we need to talk about. That's something we need to talk about, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and that, you know, it looks like, we saw Stanley Druckenmiller talking about he's long, long year eights.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't know how far out. I don't know if you, if it was the 10 year or the 30 year, you can watch that Goldman Sachs interview with Stanley Druckenmiller. There's this. I want to go over with this with you, but not right now in this session, maybe in an afternoon video today. I'm trying to pull it up over here. Oh, I don't see it on my tabs. Interesting. It's interesting. Here we are right over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This, when I look at charts, right, when I look at charts, and I see over here, this is the 10 year, and I see us taking out that resistance over here.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? And I see the signs of inflation rampant everywhere before the commodity started running.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you, if you, if you did anything like, you know, shops, send your kids to school, pay for healthcare and or housing, you felt like, you know, uh, wages were not increasing and definitely prices were. Now you're seeing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm tracking Silver technically, and if it continues this breakout, I'm gonna be a part of it. Right? No question about it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If it falls back below 26, it's just completely unattractive again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? This was a big consolidation that took place on silver. That trendline that made it super attractive to me. When it broke out, right? Came back in for the retest. Made a higher high over here. That's attractive to me. I still wanna be involved. Came in for another retest. Held. That's bullish.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's, it's all bullish. I wanna be involved, for sure. That's why I put out that special video at the moment to act.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do you see one important thing? Over here, we did that special video, being as clear as possible about it, right? Over here,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Did I make a big deal when Bitcoin traded over here? Did I, did I make a, did I bring your attention to it and say this is your opportunity? Bitcoin under $30,000. Right? 30% drawdown.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, when it, when it count with, we're always following the flow when accounts were there. By the way,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By the way, uh, if you're listening this morning, thank you for being here. Smash that like button, 459 likes as we get going here this morning. Let's keep it going.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's keep it going. Bobby, all those things are, are if they happen great and you're participating in them, that's fine. Follow what's happening on the charts.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Follow what's happening on the charts, Bobby. And right now you're, you should be, everyone, everyone should be, if you're interested, long silver. That was the entry for sure. No questions still holding this. We need to clear here. If we clear here, we're taking a look at 30 and this trade is going to be sitting beautifully.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If we come in, I would, I would not even move my stop loss at this point. Right? Stop loss, still wear original stop loss. Keep it going over here. Let's see what happens. Uh, but is it interesting? I was talking about something


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Really important as we're seeing the yields rise out there, if that, if that is the start of a bigger trend.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That the markets are forcing rates up. Gold and silver are going to continue to be unattractive relative to the dollar. How will they do? Oh, probably okay. You know, they're not going to be mooning.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know? Uh, so we'll keep watching that. We'll see what happens.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Well, yeaah, I mean, we've talked about why, right? Because PSLV has actual physical silver to back it up. SLV, we talked about yesterday releasing in their new prospectus that they are not going to have the physical silver that they're supposed to have to back it up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, and that their price of their, uhm, you know, ETF could, could therefore be reflected in that. You could start seeing silver going up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So Ethereum looking beautiful. We're seeing Bitcoin crosses under pressure and alts rising versus Bitcoin dot outperforming Bitcoin. I mean.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You guys all know about that, but that's not what I wanna talk about today. I wanna get into the equity markets over here briefly just to check in.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm going to do that on the daily time frame and then we're going to go take a look across the FX and see what's going on. Well, I didn't mention the most important thing though. If you're in Bitcoin right now, I mean, if you're in Bitcoin, what's your risk over here and when do you get worried?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? A breakdown outside of this lowest support of this channel. That would be the first sign that we could see some real pressure on Bitcoin. And then you have this trend line over here that's not too far below it. Coming in right now, still around 44,500.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? That's higher than yesterday. Yesterday we thought we could take out that low if we, if we came back down over here. That was trading around 40, 42, $43,000.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? That's your risk. Will that break? Will that hold? I would expect this trend line to hold even if we broke outside of this, of this rising channel over here to the downside. I would expect this to hold this trend line. If it didn't, well then, then we have to watch out for a 30% correction.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Even a 15%. 30% drawdown by the way. Where does that take us? I'm doing this for my own benefit. I need to know my levels at all time. 30% drawdown right now taking me back down towards 35,000. 35,000. 39% drawdown.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] 30,000 support doesn't, doesn't look like we're ever gonna see Bitcoin 30,000 ever again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? There's only one time I ever said that on 10,000.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Only one time I ever said that on 10,000, and it was the right time. Right? There we go. So anyway.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's Bitcoin. Let's take a look over here at what's going on with the equity markets. And in this environment that we're talking about, you know, the signal that we're focusing on are equities. Interesting, right?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, we're looking at stocks to continue to rise. If there's any type of correction in the, in the stock market during this year, that will be an opportunity to get long on equities if you are interested.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But if our, our equity is interested in compared to what and why exiting Bitcoin, would you be interested in going into equities? Maybe pick up some really good, uh, you know, tech companies, maybe pick up some growth stocks. If you think that we're going to be returning to growth, maybe sometime in 2023 getting ahead of it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Last week, this is by the way, Tom put this together. This is absolute fire over here. This is every single training session we've done.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over here, our Thursday training sessions, like labeled and he's gone ahead and he's by topics like placing your stop loss, psychology, risk management, position sizing, the best timeframes to trade, setting up your charts, trading tools before you begin trading, trade management, where to take profits, where to move your stops.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Choosing your set ups, the strategy itself, buy and sell, entry criteria, then ranking them, like primo content, like 2 and 3 extra credit, all the video clips broken down.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Rated, there's, there's 1600 or 1500 clips, right? And you can see just in random sessions over here, going ahead, every question, going ahead and timestamping it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Placing the question over here. These will be included on the website. I'll be working on that, uh, this week and making sure that you have a searchable, that we all have a searchable database of all the training sessions. So if you want to focus on, for example, just setting up your charts, you know, each and every clip that you need to focus in on do that along with the module.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If you want to work on, uh, you know, choosing your setups, you'll know which videos you need to focus on. It's absolutely... Tom, thank you for doing this.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Pom did this for a couple of reasons. Number one, he heard me saying it over and over again, that that would be just absolutely phenomenal resource for everyone. And then also because


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Thank you, Nate. That's beautiful to hear. I'll build off that in a minute.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he also wanted to do it because he enjoys learning so much. He truly believes that what is happening, what's taking place in this moment, here on this channel, is extraordinary.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And he's great, and he's grateful to be a part of it. He does, it's like, is it a once in a lifetime thing? I think so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And we're a part of it and it's amazing and I thank you. So I'm, I'm really looking excited to build in that out, uh, this week. Still need to do a couple of things with Brad to get that going, but that is going to be my focus. Oh, the reason I came over there, the reason I came over here, one of the last training session was exiting Bitcoin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? We have, uh, you know, pushing your winners and then Bitcoin lightly leveraged three of the most important videos before these three sessions were even produced. I thought this was invaluable treasure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's what I always refer to this as invaluable treasure. These three sessions alone are absolutely, uhm, let's say priceless, right? But exiting Bitcoin, right? We get into that. Not what I'm going to be doing exiting the equities. I'm just trying to find out a time when you might be interested in equity markets.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I don't think they're risky. There are times when I think they're risky. I've let everyone know. Right? We've monitored those pullbacks as they then occurred. Right now we're seeing


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I, there's not too much, you know, above, above 35, 46 here, that is just, everything's looking beautiful and...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a temper, that's a correction. So even if we were coming into that support, I mean, we would be leaning heavily.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, let's see. Equities continue to remain uber bullish over there. Nate, it's very important over here. 4X. That's, that's enormous. Right? That's, that, that, that peep, that's enormous. And you did that just really in a very controlled way.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's the important piece, a very risk adverse, right? A very controlled way. And now you're like putting together a count where you feel like probably you might be able to do something, right? Uh, and then this trade, this, this trade is just getting started though. Hey, do we have another five, six X in us? Do we going to trade at $300,000 on Bitcoin in this bull market over here? Where's my having chart?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Over here, if you look at the cycle, if you look at, let's say, where we are right now, $50,000, right? Day 280. If we just had the same, uhm, let's say, uh, return, expected return as the last cycle, which we expect to have a higher return, right? We got clear about that early on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] $160,000 was using a diminishing return than the previous cycle. Came out early when that was, said that was wrong.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Said that was wrong in what we're looking at. Let's see, right? If we just continue the same trajectory, that would be like $280,000 Bitcoin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? I expect we're gonna be trading higher. We'll be trading around, you can see the thumbnail of this video, 270,000. Right? By, by September.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Those are the things we're gonna be watching, see if we're lower, higher, where we are, looking for an exit, but I expect the exit is gonna be somewhere between that first peak and that second peak, right? Is that gonna be somewhere? Let's find out where it is. We don't know. We're gonna time it our best. Could it be as high as $400,000? You know? I don't like to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, and I'll be like Bitcoin is a massive bubble. And everyone else is going to be like it's a super cycle. Look at the corporations. By the way, some beautiful stuff over here. This is, this is not important.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is important, right? So there's, there's this thread over here, uhm, Satoshi's over here, you know, tagged me over here. He's like, look, I can't make sense of what, what this is. Like what, what's a risk free trade, but you know, Preston in this, in this video where he's talking about what he believes the biggest thing that's happening.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] If I had audio on the system I played for you right now, he believes the biggest thing happening in Bitcoin right now is things that take place like on BlockFi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where you're able to lend out your bitcoin and receive interest for it. Right? On BlockFi you can do two things. There's a description below. There you can do two things. You can take out a loan against your own bitcoin.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? So let's say you had, you know, $100,000 of Bitcoin and you wanted to take out a loan for maybe even as high as $50,000. You could do that. The lender feels very comfortable knowing that you're borrowing from them against your own Bitcoin. So they have the collateral if you don't pay to go ahead and get their money back. It could be called in instantly.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? If you go below your, your, your loan to value ratio, it could be called in 24 hours a day.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's like, Preston's like, this is the new form of lending. But not only that, you yourself could store your Bitcoin there, right? You know, withdrawal, you need facial recognition, good security, strong security. Do you feel comfortable about holding your Bitcoin on the third party? That's a risk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a risk and always be aware of all of your risks. There are some people who believe any Bitcoin you own, you should, you know, store offline and hold your own keys. There are other people who feel very comfortable, right? Holding, uh, you know, funds on, on, on a Coinbase or Gemini or Binance or wherever.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, uh, for- spread it out, whatever, that's a whole different topic.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The other thing that they do is if you hold your bitcoin there, you collect interest on them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Preston saying or believing, and this is going to lead to the super cycle, this is going to lead to hyper bitcoinization.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And receive interest for it by lending it out. Because it's a safe loan. It's collateralized. You can call it at any time. And it's almost a free trade. It's quote unquote risk free trade. There's always risk.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? If you look at the interest rates paid on BlockFi, last I knew they went down. If you were holding over a certain amount of Bitcoin, they went down. They've gone up. Even the tier 2, if you're holding over 2.5 Bitcoin, has gone up to 3%.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] From I believe 2%, when it went down to 2%. Now you have over here also this one going up as well, tier 1.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, that was 5%, and now it's 6%. So I'm seeing these yields rise over here. Preston's saying he believes they're gonna go up into double digits. Maybe even by the top of this bull market cycle.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, that's a game changer in, in many ways, you know, uhm, for a lot of people. And not only that, one of, why he thinks it could lead to hyper Bitcoinization, and we're going to talk about this on a corporate level in a second, is the fact that, uh, you know, it's basically taking Bitcoin offline.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's taking Bitcoin offline and there's already, it's already scarce. We're seeing the amount of Bitcoin leaving exchanges. I think, I think 1500 Bitcoin left Coinbase in the last 24 hours, right? Are those, are those institutional buyers you think, right? What type of announcements are we still soon going to say?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, either way, all interesting stuff. I wish I could play the audio for you. It's right over here. You can watch it. It's Tesla's 1.5 Bitcoin buy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With American HODL and Preston Fish. It's on what Bitcoin did's podcast. Right? So very interesting. And a lot of interesting stuff over there. So equities. How that relates to equities. So equities.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's gonna, in the coming bear market, right? Setting up for it.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] $400,000 Bitcoin. Jordan will be euphoric. As with everyone. Everyone's going to be talking about hyper Bitcoinization.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? The super cycle, just a, just a different word. Is it going to happen? Is this time it's different because corporations over here are people at the top of the cycle going to be borrowing against their Bitcoin on block five for loans with a 50%. So what happens when Bitcoin drops 50% because Bitcoin could drop.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Anytime a, anytime a comment starts out with like a, some type of information as a question, it's always funny. But your target for Bitcoin is 160k for September? Stefan, did you, maybe you just joined us, if you did, really, I'm glad that you're here, I just sat, no. What are you, no. What are you talking about?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Where did you get that information from? And watch, watch this, watch this podcast, watch any of the podcasts, see what's going on. In this point, I was like, yeah, uh, you know, a year and a half early, I did the math and put it for, you know, in November of 2019.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? Uh, I've called and been on every move of Bitcoin and will continue to do so. I'm hyper aware. That's why I spend the time doing this over here. But in this video, the thumbnail is 270,000 by September.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Right? And is that something that I believe we're gonna peek out at? I have no idea where we peek out at. Right? Is it, is it $250,000? Is it $400,000? I don't know. I'm gonna find out and I'm gonna be there to take that exit. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's all. Uhm, but I was talking about something important before I got sidetracked. I apologize for that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I apologize for that. Oh, uh, this is important over here. What happens at the top over here?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] $400,000 Bitcoin. What happens if people are taking out massive amount of loans against their Bitcoin to get that, to get that fiat?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They don't believe that we're gonna have a bear market, or if we have a bear market, they believe it's only gonna be maybe a 60% drawdown. And there is gonna, this is what's gonna happen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Ready? Watch this. By the way, if you enjoy what I'm about to share, smash the like button. If you don't enjoy it now, but as it occurs, you know, uh, 22 months from now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or whenever it occurs, you know, then at that point, smash that like button. But what's going to happen is you're going to see Bitcoin come off, off its high.