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[Assistant] He'd known what coming here, presented just as we were, would cost him.


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[Assistant] What he might have to reveal beyond the wings he loved so dearly.


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[Assistant] Tamalin rolled his eyes. It took every scrap of restraint to keep me from lunging for him from ripping out those eyes.


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[Assistant] Bullshit! Cassian muttered. Tamon glowered at him. Cassian, folding his wings in neatly as he leaned back in his chair once more, just offered a crooked grin in return. You will forgive us.


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[Assistant] These sent interrupted gracefully if we are doubtful and hesitant to share any plans. Even when I have information on Hivern's movements. Silence. Tarkin across the pool watched and listened, either because he was the youngest of them.


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[Assistant] Or perhaps he knew some advantage lay in letting us battle it out ourselves. Hamlet smiled at me.


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[Assistant] Why do you think I invited them to my house? Into my lance? You let out a low snarl and I felt Raya's tensing as Tamlin said to me. I once told you I would fight against tyranny. Against that sort of evil.


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[Assistant] Did you think you were enough to turn me from that? His teeth shown white as bone.


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[Assistant] A sneer toward Nesta, who was frowning with distaste. Yet you witnessed all that heat.


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[Assistant] More snapped. I was having difficulty swallowing, breathing.


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[Assistant] Pamela ignored her wholly and waved the hand toward Ryson's wings.


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[Assistant] I sometimes forget what you are. Have the masks come off now? Or is this another ploy?


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[Assistant] You're beginning to become tedious, Chamlin," Illion said, propping his head on a hand.


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[Assistant] Take your lover's spat elsewhere, and let the rest of us discuss this war.


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[Assistant] You'd be all too happy for war, considering how well you made out in the last one. No one says war can't be lucrative. Elion countered.


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[Assistant] Amelon's lip curled in a silent snarl that made me wonder if he'd gone to Helion to break my bargain with Ryze. Helion had refused. Enough! Calius said.


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[Assistant] We have our opinions on how to conflict with Hibern should be dealt with. Those glacial eyes hardened as he again took in Tamlin. Are you here as an ally of Hibern or Prithian? The mocking hateful gleam faded into granite resolve. I stand against Hibern. Prove it, healing goaded.


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[Assistant] Thamelin lifted his hand, and a stack of papers appeared on the little table beside his chair.


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[Assistant] Charts of armies, ammunition, caches of Fabane. Everything carefully gleaned these months.


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[Assistant] All of this directed at me, as I refused to so much as lower my chin, my back ached from keeping it so straight, a twinge of pain flanking either side of my spine.


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[Assistant] Noble as it sounds, Elion went on. Who is it to say that information is correct? Or that you aren't Hivern's agent trying to mislead us?


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[Assistant] Who is to say that Rhysand and his cronies are not agents of hybrid? All of this arouse to get you to yield without realizing it. Nesta murmured, you can't be serious.


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[Assistant] More gave my sister a look as dis- as if to say that he certainly was.


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[Assistant] If we need to ally against Hibern, Eason said, you're doing a good job of convincing us not to band together, Tamlin.


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[Assistant] I'm simply warning you that they might present the guise of honesty and friendship, but the facts remain that he warmed Amarantha's bed for 50 years and only worked against her when it seemed the tide was turning. I'm warning you that while he claims his own city, was attacked by Hibern.


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[Assistant] They made off remarkably well, as if they'd been anticipating it.


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[Assistant] Don't think he wouldn't sacrifice a few buildings and lesser fairies to lure you into an alliance. Into thinking you had a common enemy.


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[Assistant] Why is it that only the Nightcourt got worried about the attack on Adriana? And we're the only ones to arrive in time to play Savior.


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[Assistant] They received word during Karankuli because I warned them about it.


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[Assistant] Tarkin whipped his head to his cousin, browse high with surprise.


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[Assistant] Perhaps you're working with them too, Tamlin said to the Prince of Adriata. You're next in line after all.


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[Assistant] You're insane. I breathed Tamalin as Barry and bared his teeth.


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[Assistant] Do you hear what you're saying? I pointed toward Nesta. Hibern turned my sisters into fae after your bitch of a priestess sold them out. Perhaps Yonthi's mind was already in Risen's thrall. What a tragedy to remain young and beautiful.


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[Assistant] You're a good actress. I'm sure the trait runs in the family. Nesta let out a little laugh.


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[Assistant] If you want someone to blame for all of this, she said to Tamalin, perhaps you should first look in the mirror.


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[Assistant] Tamlyn snarled at her. Has to get snarled right back. Watch it!


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[Assistant] Himalayan looked between my sister and Cassian, his gaze lingering on Cassian's wings, tucked in behind him, snorted.


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[Assistant] My power began to rumble, a behemoth rising up, yawning awake. What do you want? I hissed. An apology? For me to crawl back into your bed and play nice, little wife? Why should I want spoiled goods returned to me? My cheeks heated. Tamlin growled. The moment you let him buck you like an... One heartbeat.


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[Assistant] The poison words are spewing from his mouth where fangs lengthened and they stopped. Hamlin's mouth simply stopped emitting sounds. He shut his mouth, opened it, tried again. No sound, not even a snarl came out.


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[Assistant] There was no smile on Ryson's face. Not a glint of irreverent amusement as he rested his hand against the back of his chair.


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[Assistant] The gaping fish look is a good one for you, Tamlin. To others who have been watching with disdain and amusement and boredom, now turn to my mate.


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[Assistant] Rise was as different from them as humans were to Faye. They forgot it. Sometimes, how deep that well of power went. What manner of power Rise bore. But as Ryson ripped away Tamlin's ability to speak, they remembered. And that my friends, was the end. Chapter 44. Holy crap.


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[Assistant] Ooh, that's a good chapter, baby. I like that one. I wish I, I wish I had done a little bit better job reading on it, but hey, that's the raw water. You know, as much as.


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[Assistant] I think I like that I do that in the fact that if you, if you yourself are reading it, you may misread, you know, I myself struggle sometimes to read and especially saying out loud, sometimes the words can get mixed or my eyes jump pages.


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[Assistant] So I, I like to think that bringing in that bit of stutter, that little bit of step here and there and.


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[Assistant] Trying not to figure out, like trying to figure out who's talking when I'm not getting a clear sign of it, that all of that is kind of like...


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[Assistant] For the reader's benefit that when I mess up and I correct myself that...


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[Assistant] It gives you a chance to maybe step back and take another look at that page again, so hopefully you guys get a little bit more out of it, and hopefully I don't confuse y'all too much.


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[Assistant] Uhm, it is part laziness that I don't do edits, but I also like being able to give that first impression really of what I've read.


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[Assistant] I definitely forgot whose voice was whose, and I should've remembered that, but I was kinda, I'm kinda running on a time crunch here. Uh, dinner is getting made thanks to the lovely Lady Wada. Uh, usually I'm the cook, but in an instance like this, she was able to make a nice little meal for me, or maybe we'll order something, who knows? Y'all?


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[Assistant] Other than that, other than that, I'm getting so distracted with IRL. Y'all make sure to stay beautiful. Stay hydrated. If you like that chapter, give, I think this is the time I'm going to call for a like. If you like that chapter.


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[Assistant] As much as I did, throw a like in there, throw a comment in there and lets me know that this was a fire chapter, at least to read. Maybe not as much to hear, but I think, you know, I think it's awesome overall. Stay beautiful, stay hydrated. We'll see you in the next chapter.


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[Assistant] Well, this is one of the things I love about this adaptation is, you know, in the game, we explored similar things, but we can only do it from Joel or Ellie's perspective. So Kansas City is Pittsburgh, but you get to see the aftermath of


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[Assistant] And here we said, okay, what if we could see that? Because again, we're not married every moment to Joel and Ellie's perspective. Like, what if we could see it and to tie it to character, what if we placed Henry and Sam in that and tie it to that? Which, you know, is a change from the game. In the game, there were travelers like Joel and Ellie and they end up


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[Assistant] Being stuck in this city. Uhm, here they were part of this uprising and they're connected to the politics of it.


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[Assistant] And I think there's a lot of kind of richness to talk more about what happened here and eventually get to the other side, the other perspective of like, well, why did they have this uprising and who led that uprising and what does it mean for the people that have remained now?


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[Assistant] Basically, uh, I believe I said you motherfucker. I wish I had thought of that. It's a term of endearment.


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[Assistant] The word I think about is it enriches. It's like, it adds this extra layer to this tale from the game. I was rewatching it last night in preparation for this, and uhm, when they're hiding out in the attic,


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[Assistant] Uh, there's this moment where Henry reveals to Sam that Edelstein is not coming back, that in fact he's dead. And Sam just, his instinct, he reaches out and he needs the comfort of his older brother.


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[Assistant] And that scene just really resonated with me in a way that even when I was working on a game did, my son is not the same age as Sam. And I've had those situations where my son is either


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[Assistant] Scared or upset or just distraught in some way.


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[Assistant] And he just needs that hug and that hug felt so real and authentic. Man, it hits me right to my core.


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[Assistant] Not because he wants to. Cause again, and this will come back later in the season.


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[Assistant] Anything you could do to take the pain away from your kid, you will do that as a parent.


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[Assistant] But sometimes you gotta be brutally honest with them in order to protect them. It's the same exact motivation.


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[Assistant] There's a change here, pretty significant from the game, which is...


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[Assistant] In the game, you're playing alongside Henry and Sam and Ellie.


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[Assistant] And you come across these enemies and therefore we needed Henry to be able to fight and kill with you.


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[Assistant] And we try to give uhm, a certain morality in the game to Henry that even Joel wouldn't have, which was like, there's a part where like, Sam tries to steal this toy from this toy store and Henry says, no, we only take what we need and no more.


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[Assistant] And it was just a way to kind of separate them here again, because we don't need Henry to kill. There's this beautiful choice of like, I've never killed anybody.


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[Assistant] You mean different from the game? Yeah. No, I don't think we ever like...


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[Assistant] I don't remember any conversation where like, oh let's show them how this is different. It's more like what's best for this medium and what's best for where we are in the story that has already kind of evolved and kind of changed in some


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[Assistant] These quote unquote hunters, these people that have taken over.


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[Assistant] The quarantine zone and it's like, well, if we just do that and it's completely removed from our main characters, then I don't think it would have worked.


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[Assistant] It was the tying it of Henry and Sam so that all these things are interconnected that made it all gel.


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[Assistant] But by the way, also Kathleen and her entire group.


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[Assistant] Because, I don't know if we've ever talked about, in my mind, it's like, she's operating from a place of like, I have to bring this person to justice to set the foundation of this thing that I'm building now, where Fredra used to be.


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[Assistant] Well, he does and he doesn't, right? That's, that's, that to me, like, helps flesh out Kathleen even further is the fact that he loves her and looks up to her.


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[Assistant] It also kinda sets the rules for this world of like, these are the people that survive.


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[Assistant] These are the people that have the tools to survive in this world and this is why Joel


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[Assistant] School and where like this, like a small group, a small tribe lived there and survived on their own. And in the game you have this mechanic where you walk around and you can find these notes and read them.


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[Assistant] And they told you the whole backstory of this guy-ish and how he like started this community and he recruited other people. And you can find this whole story of like the height of how they survived here and their ultimate downfall.


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[Assistant] And we just couldn't tell the story in the show, there was just no way to do it. But we wanted to honor that this place existed, and it felt like there's a way to reflect back on these characters and the journey they're going through now, especially where kids lived here, and like you saw,


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[Assistant] Sam sketching and drawing stuff before. Now you could imagine there would have been like a dozen kids here and now they're all gone.


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[Assistant] So I just love that again, it's this moment that honors it and it's like these two almost like parallel dimension of the same story lived side by side and kind of help talk to one another and enrich the other.


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[Assistant] Fun quick tangent when we were scouting Edmonton for episode 2.


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[Assistant] We went to like a random restaurant, and there's like a bunch of us there, and the waitress comes over, and is like, oh, what are you guys here for? We're like, oh, we're shooting a TV show. She's like, what show? It's like Glass Files. I go, oh my god, I love that game. She pulls her sleeve, and she has a tattoo that says, Endurance Survived. And I'm like, oh my god.


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[Assistant] That speaks to the same themes of relationships and love and all that. And I was like, it should have a catchphrase that the main hero says. And I'm like, what could be kind of like a cheesy catchphrase? Okay, our game is about survival. I'm like, and I just went up to source.com, typed in survival and Endure came up and I'm like, Endure and survive. There it is.


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[Assistant] No, no, no. You hate everybody that got a last of his tattoo. Let's, let's stick with the...


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[Assistant] I will say, this is the third time I've made this deal. I've made it on The Last of Us 1, then Last of Us Part 2, and I've always backed out of it. I guess now we're making it pretty public.


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[Assistant] The way we wrote that sniper was that he would antagonize you. He yells at you to kind of rile you up, to make you angry so when you get in that house, you unleash on him. This was a very different approach.


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[Assistant] They find this person who had committed suicide and Joel talks to Ellie and he's like, and Ellie says like, oh, he took the easy way out. And Joel says, it's not easy. Yeah. The thing that Craig was just talking about, Joel recognizes that and that's why he sees it immediately in this man.


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[Assistant] The speed of how all those sets came together is incredible. Cause I've never done live action. It's the first time I got to see it. You get to build it in polygons. I'll just do this in real life.


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[Assistant] Cause we met like with Jeremy Webb in Santa Monica in a restaurant. It was like, we're brainstorming like, okay, what should happen to sequence? What do we want to see? The thing that was really exciting for me is like in the game, you're just Joel. So everything you're seeing is really far.


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[Assistant] And then like Henry, Sam, Ellie are like these tiny figures running and you're trying to protect them. Through your scope. Yeah.


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[Assistant] Here you get to jump in perspective, back and forth, back and forth, so you get to see it from afar, and then you're in it with like, as they're, as they're running, and then as we're brainstorming, Craig goes,


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[Assistant] I got it. It's gotta be night time and I'm like. That is not what I said. This is what I said.


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[Assistant] By the way, to talk about how much he loved the material, like he left ILM to come work on this show because of how much he loves the game.


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[Assistant] When we worked on the game, we, we came up with like the, the lifeline, all these stages of when someone's infected, what could happen to them. So, you know, when you're first getting infected, there's a thing called a runner, which is just a recently infected in the show. It's the one that you see like tendrils coming out, Nana in episode one. Then if you've survived long enough,


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[Assistant] Uhm, eventually the cordyceps grows through your face, cracks it open, takes away your eyes, your vision, and you become what's called a clicker because now these infected use echolocation to find their way.


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[Assistant] And then we're saying, okay, there's gotta be some people that, again, because this thing is eating away from your inside, eventually when they know they're going to die, they go to like underground, like a dark place, and they settle against a wall, they settle in the corner, and the infection just, they become part of the environment. It grows all over the walls and the ceiling and the ground.


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[Assistant] But there are certain people that are just so strong and big that could survive even longer.


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[Assistant] And those are the bloaters. And that's why we're seeing this person is so tall and massive in their, in their strength. And it just becomes that much scary again, as we go forward, there's just these, these new types of infected.


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[Assistant] And they're like, should we do bloater? Should we not do bloater? Should we do bloater? Should we not? And we've had this like back and forth for months before we just said,


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[Assistant] The original designer of the clicker at Naughty Dog, cause we were like debating like, and we had certain sketches and we were like, okay, we just need to go back to the source. And we brought him onto the show to like help design this clicker.


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[Assistant] Sometimes it's a zero sum game, which is like, I think back to that first episode, you know, when Joel drives by that family and he chooses not to help them and maybe they died afterwards or like maybe that kid died afterwards.


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[Assistant] There's also something about knowing what the audience is asking right now. It's like, okay, if she's immune, couldn't she just give her blood? Like you I've seen since the game, you know, people ask that I'm like, let's answer it. And the answer is.


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[Assistant] There's also a naivety that a kid would have of like, we're invincible. Like, I'm not gonna experience this tragedy, we're gonna get past this. I didn't, so you won't. And this is like part of Ellie's journey is this like, one, like this violent corruption through her interaction with Joel, but two, a loss of innocence. Every step of the way there's a loss of innocence.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It goes further to Henry cause then he enters this almost like a nightmare like state where he's behaving in a way that he can't even control himself and then has a realization of like, oh my god, what have I done? And like again, the game has almost identical moment for Henry, but even though the lines of dialogue are different, but he's just saying,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the game he says, it's all your fault here. He's like, what have I done? Same subtext of like, holy shit, I can't believe I just shot my brother.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We had a lot of long conversations. I don't know if we should get into the alternatives because people might get mad at us that there were alternatives. But it's almost an identical process to what we went through in the game. Because in the game initially, Henry didn't die.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Again, it's like, if you're trying to reflect the worst possible outcome for a parent, I felt like we had to take it all the way to show like, then you have nothing left. There's nothing left.


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[Assistant] You know, in the game we hinted that they buried Henry and Sam. Here we get to see it.


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[Assistant] And there's a change that's happening in Joel as well, which is, Joel is such a pragmatic survivor, he wouldn't spend time burying someone. He's not doing it for himself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] He's doing it for Ellie. The father-daughter bond is now there. And that's to what Craig was saying. The fear that a parent has is the most intense fear one can have.


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[Assistant] Well, he said, I hope you'll forgive me for having knocked you down that day. In fact, I had knocked him down, but I did not contradict him.


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[Assistant] If she had liked me, I could be a rich man and engage to Estella by now. Were you disappointed? I asked. Oh, I wouldn't want to marry Estella. She's a hard, proud girl.


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[Assistant] And Miss Havisham has brought her up to break men's hearts as a revenge on all men.


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[Assistant] That song, that song has since been streamed 6.3 billion times.


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[Assistant] What do you, what do you remember about, what do you remember about that day?


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[Assistant] It's so brilliant. It's incredible. It really is. You've been doing a little bit of acting.


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[Assistant] Natalie, I want to talk about this. You've been posting some very popular cooking videos online, right? They're brilliant. If you were competing like on say like Top Chef or Hell's Kitchen or The Bake Off, which show would Natalie Portman have the best chance of winning?


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[Assistant] And it's hard for anybody to get, to even figure out what that is. Have a look, this is a snippet of what the crowd was like when Billy was headlining.


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[Assistant] But honestly, it's incredible, and you're gonna be headlining Lollapalooza again in Chicago, which is August 3rd, and people are gonna have the greatest time. Stick around. More with Natalie Portman and Billy Ocean. We'll come back, everybody.


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[Assistant] Marloosh, my buddy Oota.


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[Assistant] One over other but not necessarily neglect the other two, uh, principles also.


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[Assistant] Yeah, this is a very interesting and very important point what you mentioned, you know, by giving this example of building temples and how dharma continues to prevail.


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[Assistant] Compared to other civilizations, Chinese, Western or South American also.


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[Assistant] You know, hearing from one very nice, uh, wise, intelligent person, he said when Dharma is attacked,


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[Assistant] It is one aspect of dharma is being attacked, whether it is social fabric, political fabric or educational fabric.


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[Assistant] And aggression, reactive behaviour caused by one aspect of Dharma being attacked is a sign of Raju flavoured with Tamo. Yes.


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[Assistant] More than anything else, more than anything else is continuously debating on this concept, including from our own self to our family, our village, our community.


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[Assistant] So when that is done properly systematically, just imagine in the Bhagavatam there is a story of Hiranyakashipu tormenting. Now who could stop? Where is Aurangzeb compared to Hiranyakashipu?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Very conscious destruction of anything which is connected to Dharma, Vedas, Shraddha,


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[Assistant] The, the critical thinking against Islam and Christianity has to come from Islam and Christianity only.


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[Assistant] You know we need to have lot of more positive thinking.


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[Assistant] The many so called intellectual amongst the Hindu community, those are atheist, those


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In regards to western civilization, in regards to Abrahamic faith, you know, you don't have to slander. At least understand it as it is.


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[Assistant] As if they are such a violent, aggressive, you know, terrorist people, you know.


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[Assistant] So this, so this, this, this bias, so then the question is raised.


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[Assistant] You know, the demon within their own heart of bias, shamelessness, how will they allow them to sleep? Because it is not possible only. You can be so brutal, dishonest in the name of, you know, in the name of transparent journalism.


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[Assistant] Once you realize, okay, you know, this is the reality. They are not, they are not representing the news.


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[Assistant] That the same people, they will tell others, never forget what you experience by the Brahmins.


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[Assistant] It is not even hypocrisy, it is beyond hypocrisy. It is sickening.


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[Assistant] That's what I said, how can they sleep in the night by being so...


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[Assistant] So bias and so much, uh, uh, uh, adharmic in this regard. So that is called as rakshasivrithi. That is not even adharma, that is rakshasivrithi.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But by very nature, dharma, just like during the corona, the prakriti, which was abused, misused, exploited by the human existence, consciously, unconsciously, doesn't matter, but the consequences are the same.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Or whether you simply be part of the civilizational reality still the mother nature was exploited. She bounced back.


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[Assistant] The prakriti bounce back and she just shunned all the human existence from her surrounding at least for few months to cleanse herself. Right?


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[Assistant] But at least I will fight him to such an extent that I will delay the kidnapping of mother Sita.


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[Assistant] It is always going up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and therefore the Pandavas, the number is very less.


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[Assistant] But they have the power to dislodge the cover of us. Shivaji Maharaj in number very less.


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[Assistant] They are none other than Sindhis. If you read the civilizational history of Maratha,


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[Assistant] You know, it's okay to kill a, a dharmic person like, uh, you know, like Duryodhana is being killed. That's very common. The good against the evil. But here,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Even for that person there is a concept of justice.


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[Assistant] Our, our Sanatana Dharma is telling if there is a need, he should be eliminated with kindness. He should be eliminated with tears in your eyes.


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[Assistant] Where do you find such a thrilling story where a person was killing his grandfather with limitless pain in his heart?


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[Assistant] You know, Prahlad never wanted his father to go to hell. I remember listening to a debate.


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[Assistant] You know some moderator asked a very staunch, very deep Christian student


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[Assistant] A practitioner, what happens if your parents don't take to Christianity?


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[Assistant] And with great sincerity she said, I know I love them, but they will experience hell.


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[Assistant] Lord Narsingar or Prahlad, they had no problem with Hiranyakashipu as a person. They had a problem with Hiranyakashipu's activities. The punishment was given to his activities, not to him.


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[Assistant] I guarantee you, anybody having a common sense.


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[Assistant] In the heart of their heart will question what they're exactly doing about radicalized


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[Assistant] They do not have the courage to express it externally. You can imagine what kind of trauma pain conflict they would be going through.


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[Assistant] Like dharma and shraddha when they are married that gives rise to auspiciousness.


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[Assistant] But because you are part of a group and you propose and pose your shraddha more aggressively. I remember reading somewhere whose fanatic is one.


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[Assistant] Who doesn't have an internal substance but externally he is very aggressive about what he does. That is a fanatic.


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[Assistant] That when the, in the 15th, we discussed that also in the 15th, 16th century when, when the scientific community, you know, they met with


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[Assistant] Duryodhan is considered as a personification of Kali.


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[Assistant] Ravana is a personification of kama, you know, not the kama of the four purusharthas, you know, obsessive attachment.


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[Assistant] Wherein Ravana is thinking that I need to go and touch mother Sita, after all she is goddess of fortune.


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[Assistant] And in Mahabharat it is more, more clearly, explicitly explained.


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[Assistant] And when he encountered Satyaki on the battlefield of Kurukshetra, he said, what the hell am I doing? What is this all about? You are my such a good friend. The good sense prevailed even in the heart of Duryodhana.


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[Assistant] You just give them profound knowledge and wisdom and let them be disturbed by this wisdom.


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[Assistant] Because ultimately, you know, according to Gita, Krishna is saying there is nothing more sublime than knowledge.


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[Assistant] One who is situated however accidentally or by any means one who comes closer to that boat of transcendental knowledge.


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[Assistant] You know, darshan, darshan deko na, it is not synonymous to philosophy.


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[Assistant] What a word our rishis have used, or tatva they have called as a darshan shastra.


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[Assistant] And therefore, and therefore why dharma, dharma must have, you know,


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[Assistant] Why the western civilization, the pagan religion, the South American religion completely got destroyed? Dharma was non-existent there. Dharma was existing there in a folk tradition.


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[Assistant] So even if they go externally, superficially, when you stand in front of something so tangible and so substantial,


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[Assistant] You idiot, you rascal, you're standing here. Do you have a shame?


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[Assistant] Yeah, yeah, so then you are talking as if you are a secular, you are talking as if you are slandering Sanatana Dharma just to get few votes. The political slander by the political leaders against Sanatana Dharma is purely based upon effacement politics.


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[Assistant] And agenda is connected to temporariness. The Kauravas represent agenda and Pandavas represent Satya.


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[Assistant] Is not only connected to Kali Yuga. Sura Sura is the one which says Kali Yuga is so bad. I don't agree with that.


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[Assistant] Kali Yuga compared to Satya Yuga is the most, uh,


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[Assistant] You know, uh, it gives you such a facility to practice. You can believe anything, nobody touches you. You may not speak about it but you can believe anything.


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[Assistant] It is not like a Mughal, Mughal invasion for 200 years. What is 200 years? Compared to Hirani Kashyapu controlling for 1000 years.


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[Assistant] And when the attacks which happened in the pockets, whether it is


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[Assistant] You know, the exploitation by one community to another, these were all not national


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[Assistant] Organized, centralized exploitation with Dharma community also. It was a sporadic, it was a selfish,


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[Assistant] You know, it was based upon few people selfishly trying to, you know, do something which was against, like, like we read the Chaitanya Charita Amrit, right. So what we read only part is Smartha Brahmanas were, you know, against Mahaprabhu's mission. And who is Mahaprabhu for that matter?


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[Assistant] You know, the Brahmanas of India, I want to discuss that topic also.


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[Assistant] I have not started but there is a desire to write a book on atrocities against the Brahmanas.


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[Assistant] The teachers who taught us came from very nice background, who were good teachers and happened to be Brahmanas.


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[Assistant] Still the best of the teachers are Brahmins only who are teaching us.


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[Assistant] So therefore the experience of one group of people in regards to


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[Assistant] There is a conflict between selfishness and selflessness, whether it is Duryodhan or anybody else.


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[Assistant] The principle of samskaras, the sanatan dharma has a very refined way to align with the samskaras through certain rituals.


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[Assistant] To be a dharmic, but you will have the concept of Vedic Shastra without understanding the Vedas.


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[Assistant] So he does not know the verses of Bhagavad Gita, but somewhere he has clicked to the essence of that chapter.


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[Assistant] Some kind of miracle beyond predictable mechanistic reality.


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[Assistant] And therefore even in the western world where Christianity is dominant, capitalism is dominant, atheism is dominant, still the western astrology is still functioning.


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[Assistant] And therefore at the end of the day, they may propose Baran existent as a philosophy because they are part of that group.


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[Assistant] But even amongst them also there are many people who would not want to, you know, focus on that part, just reducing it to mechanical reality.


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[Assistant] And other such scientists will come, they will say you are not scientists, you are carpenters.


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[Assistant] But the point is carpenter has a structure, he has a shape, he has a size, he has a tape, he makes a chair, you know, very predictable reality.


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[Assistant] But even amongst the carpenter if you see certain work, wood work,


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[Assistant] Somewhere there will be some chamber where you can keep things.


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[Assistant] Even a carpenter wants to create a mystery in his creation. What to speak of a somebody exploring beyond just woodwork.


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[Assistant] Yeah, and when, and therefore when there, and therefore another interesting part, education.


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[Assistant] Education was never ever controlled by the state.


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[Assistant] It was always, always inspired.


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[Assistant] They know sensitive to whom you are teaching, which surrounding they would live.


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[Assistant] I want to assist in your education system without ever controlling the teachers.


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[Assistant] So brahmanas cannot teach you Vaishya Vritti na. So education depending on who you are,


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[Assistant] Then you have to go to the farmer who has the capacity to teach you. So therefore who is he?


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[Assistant] And therefore again dharma, dharma prevails to such an extent, you know, the whole concept of, it's so amazing, that's so amazing, that somebody who did not control anything was the in charge of education. Including not controlling the student, the teacher and student dynamic, that is so important, that is so important to understand.


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[Assistant] Make them stand on their own feet. A teacher guru was not a drug, he was a nectar. A nectar is not a medicine where you take regularly, like for a chronic disease.


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[Assistant] Yes, and that is how Vedic education work like that.


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[Assistant] Yes, he will experience gratitude throughout his life.


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[Assistant] There is a solution for it. Let us focus on states resources to give skill education to us.


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[Assistant] Our children learn the skill for their financial independence but the same parents


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[Assistant] Depend on Krishna is very easy to say, right.


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[Assistant] But teaching duality to the children, you know, life is dual, there is victory and there is a defeat.


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[Assistant] There is happiness and there is a distress. There is sometimes win, sometimes you lose.


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[Assistant] The foundational principle of Gita, if they are taught and part of that foundational principle is, you know, why shraddha is required.


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[Assistant] Why faith is required? What does faith do? What is faith means? How do you experience presence of God in your life? If they are systematically taught,


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[Assistant] Absolutely nobody can control and those who have learned assertively their education system, they may drift away from their habits for some time.


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[Assistant] But that does not remove their strong belief system.


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[Assistant] And the logic will come how to slander that very ritual which they practice.


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[Assistant] Like whenever people, this is, you know, nothing about saying boastful, that when we come to spirituality, you know, kind of background we came from.


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[Assistant] No, the question of fear of worry you will give up spirituality, you lose faith, I say doesn't exist.


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[Assistant] They gave in such a way, it was not institutionalized, faith was not institutionalized, that was cultural, you know, and slowly because of the good friends and right understanding of political reality, social sensitivity.


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[Assistant] You know Indians are so close to God and they are distracting because of materialism.


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[Assistant] Because imposition is very easy, but it is not sustainable.


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[Assistant] Like Duryodhan's brothers were completely subservient to Duryodhan.


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[Assistant] When you create a management system based upon this


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[Assistant] This, this very deep foundational principle, it is destructive


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[Assistant] Fentative area means their, their hearts, their consciousness.


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[Assistant] Because even during the battle of Kurukshetra after hearing Bhagavad Gita from Krishna,


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[Assistant] At one point of time when Yudhishthira Maharaj spoke that lie and Dronacharya was killed and then Ashwathama had an outburst and Arjuna had an outburst also against Yudhishthira Maharaj.


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[Assistant] And part of that, part of that outburst is questioning Lord Ramachandra killing Vali from behind.


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[Assistant] Arjuna had, he had a special affection for Dronacharya. He did not agree for Yudhishthira Mahashtra to lie.


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[Assistant] So Bhima became very angry, then Arjuna brings it, you know, it is just like how Lord Ramachandra killed Vali from behind.


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[Assistant] Understanding the spirit of Arjuna, the pain of Arjuna, the attachment of Arjuna, the Lord doesn't take it much seriously.


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[Assistant] And hoping that somebody else take responsibility of their spiritual growth. And then we say, you know, Guru is everything. He is Mata, he is Pita. Poetically it is correct. But if the parents have not taken the responsibility,


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[Assistant] You should know that he doesn't have the responsibility for giving you justice also.


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[Assistant] Guru is not a giver of justice. Guru is giver of knowledge, of life, of your spiritual connection and go and find where you get that justice.


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[Assistant] Yes, it is, it is, it is, he did not create a system based on that. What is the, what is the proof? Because when people try to imitate him, there was a huge disastrous effect.


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[Assistant] Again when we, when we, when we study what Shri Prabhupada wanted to do, you have to reconnect with the Shastras also na.


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[Assistant] When the conditional instruction and circumstantial instruction are brought into the public space in the form of bringing all the books in the public space like the letter and everything.


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[Assistant] You know, then you take one letter, suits you, thinking that this is also connected to me.


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[Assistant] You know, somebody joins, young person when you join, he has accessibility to everything. It is like in our Kannada, there is a saying, Mangana Kayali Manikya.


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[Assistant] The monkeys, a canister one has come to spirituality and the Manikyas, Prabhupada's writing, everything. Oh, okay.


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[Assistant] Yeah, so therefore no parents, you know, no parents.


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[Assistant] There would be, there would be a people say somebody like I come from a meat-eating background.


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[Assistant] So what happened? The motherhood was experienced properly. The affectionate side was experienced.


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[Assistant] But when you come to spirituality, when you realize you are not supposed to eat meat,


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[Assistant] Meet along with the kindness given by the parents. Why can't separate?


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[Assistant] But don't condemn the kindness what they offered, rejecting everything.


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[Assistant] And you don't read book, you read concepts, you grasp the concepts.


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[Assistant] When you said Gita is a A, B, C, D or Gita is a basic and Bhagavatam is the highest.


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[Assistant] The foundation of basic is not there. What will you understand a PhD? You will misunderstand.


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[Assistant] But the Vedic lifestyle or the Dharmic lifestyle is everything has its role.


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[Assistant] You are the greatest among the Prajapatis. You know, you are greatest among the Kashyapa Gotra.


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[Assistant] So like that, you are greatest among the Patil, you are greatest among the Patil.


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[Assistant] He told both of them, you look, you're seeing only fault and Hanuman, you're not seeing any fault. He said, I am saying there is a fault in him and it doesn't matter to me. That is the brother of Ravana.


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[Assistant] Therefore, Dalai Lama practiced non-violent philosophy but not necessarily the vegetarian.


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[Assistant] Lord Krishna is a pure vegetarian, but not necessarily non-violent.


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[Assistant] And in fact Krishna integrated for dharma, there is no conflict between non-violence and violence.


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[Assistant] Brahmana toh mera bhi adhikar hai, ek juta silaane wale ka bhi adhikar hai.


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[Assistant] Because Brahmanattva is beyond, it is, it is free to everybody. Therefore a Raja can also become a Rishi. A carpenter also can be a Rishi.


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[Assistant] He may not claim that he is a Rishi. You know, Raja will not take the role of Vashistha. He will continue to remain Raja. But he has the disposition of Rishi.


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[Assistant] The Brahmana may be in the forefront in the altar but the deity which has been carved it is done by the sculptor.


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[Assistant] He from the, from the jata, from the jati perspective, he falls into the category of shudra.


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[Assistant] Jyotsudra ne banayiva creation ko, uss murti ko.


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[Assistant] Yes, there were some wrong people, but does not mean that the community itself is wrong.


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[Assistant] Just like in the cricket or just like in the movie industry.


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[Assistant] Even the Avatara Tatva does not do that. Avatara Tatva is one of the greatest contribution is to facilitate everyone to become


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[Assistant] A kind of a small, small, small, small dharma establishment.


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[Assistant] The spirit of avatara tattva, ishwar ka amsha, everybody has that ishwar ka amsha. So what is avatara? Recundling the lost valor in every living entity.


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[Assistant] Because the war of life does not happen in the stadium. It happens in the real ground where everybody is a participant.


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[Assistant] How can, like I say, one young lady, she does Bhagavad Gita, you know, from a tribal community I met her recently. In her talk she was explaining.


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[Assistant] And simply by Bhagavad Gita, which she does in the tribal areas, recently she brought back, not by propaganda, not by temptation, simply by giving knowledge to them.


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[Assistant] When the Shivaji spirit was there, everybody, the Mughals did not dare to attack.


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[Assistant] People were cooking, people were cleansing, people were nursing, people were washing clothes. All community took part in the Battle of Kurukshetra. Not necessarily fighting but providing resources to many people.


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[Assistant] You know, was a participant in some of the battle while they're fighting, they're looking, wow, I got organized fighting. They were simultaneously a participant and also spectator in special battles.


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[Assistant] But not only pure spectators eating their, uh, you know, what do you call it, when people go to watch movies.


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[Assistant] So even in that level, there is a need to assist and cooperate while enjoying Krishna's great power.


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[Assistant] Whatever they could do. To the extent where they are offering Krishna, if you believe that he can't lift, then at least change your hand. We know that we can lift. Sridhama defeats you in the wrestling match.


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[Assistant] So he can, if he can lift Govardhan Hill and Sridhama defeats you in the wrestling match, he can also lift. But if you do not have trust in Sridhama, at least change your hand. We can massage your hand.


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[Assistant] Depending upon who you are, what you are. If you don't, then you become cause of Adharma.


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[Assistant] It causes violence, it causes radicalization, it causes small-mindedness. That people judge you based upon your relationship with your Guru, rather than judging your character and what you can contribute. And in this way there is a huge lack of


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[Assistant] Wasted in regards to contributing to the cause of growth of society.


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[Assistant] You know, and because you don't belong to the party which I belong, I will not facilitate your contribution.


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[Assistant] In their idea and in thought process, it says you worship Guru because you want to respect and experience the Guru Tattva.


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[Assistant] And therefore dharmic nation like Bharat had no problem. We didn't need a constitution to live a harmonious life like Sai Deepak has written a book.


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[Assistant] You know, and he was debating with Sashi Thor, everybody should see that debate. You know?


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[Assistant] He said our civilization has done repeatedly again and again without this constitution also. Accepted the parses, accepted the Islam, accepted Christianity, accepted, you know,


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[Assistant] Or British, they are all Christians only, but that did not unite them. Nation divided them. But Dharma is the power.


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[Assistant] In fact, she has improved greatly under your care, in my opinion. Very greatly.


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[Assistant] I do indeed. You have made her graceful and easy. She always had beauty. Now she has...


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[Assistant] Exactly so. That is what immediately strikes one. You have a great understanding of such matters, Miss Woodhouse.


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[Assistant] Yes. What a subject you would make for your pencil, Miss Woodhouse. Oh, my? Yes, yours. Oh, you're too modest. Mrs. Weston has shown me the likeness you made of her. And may I be permitted to say I think it quite admirable.


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[Assistant] Then let me entreat you to try your charming talent once more on Miss Smith.


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[Assistant] Please, please, it would be a sheer delight.


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[Assistant] You're certainly fortunate to have such a talented friend as Miss Woodhouse, Miss Smith.


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[Assistant] Oh, am I standing in your light? I do beg your pardon.


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[Assistant] A sweet disorder of the dress, Kindles in clothes a wantonness, A lawn about the shoulder's throne, Into a fine distraction, An erring lace, which here and there, Tomorrow will be dying. The glorious lamp of heaven, the sun, The higher he's a-getting, The sooner will his race be run, And nearer he's to setting.


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[Assistant] You know, you call the expression of the eye most admirably. May I be permitted to congratulate you?


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[Assistant] To me, it gives exactly the true impression of Miss Smith's height. Exactly so.


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[Assistant] Excellently sketched in too. I greatly like the tree.


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[Assistant] I think it's a most happy notion myself to have placed Miss Smith outside like that. It suits the simplicity of her character, does it not?


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[Assistant] Well, if I might be entrusted with such a delicate commission, it would give me the greatest pleasure in the world, I do assure you, Mr. Woodhouse. A capital suggestion.


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[Assistant] Sheer insecurity, she's like, I don't even know how.


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[Assistant] A little, a little son, a little son, a little son Connery, Sean, Sean Sonnery.


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[Assistant] But first of all, I'd like to also do a little bit inside the root component, just a tiny little bit.


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[Assistant] So first of all, I'm gonna do a paragraph tag and then just type out some lorem here. And that's just so we have something to play with on the screen. So let me save that and preview over here. And we see this paragraph going all the way from the left to the right.


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[Assistant] Now, instead of the content spanning all the way across, I'd like to create a column of content, which sits in the middle, which has a maximum width of about 960 pixels. And then the margin is auto left and right. So we have space on the left and on the right. So to do that, I'm going to target the main.


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[Assistant] Margin is gonna be about 40 pixels top and bottom, auto left and right. If I save this now, you'll notice that the maximum width is this right here. It still looks quite wide, but that's because I'm zoomed in. If I zoom out a little bit.


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[Assistant] So 100%, we can see now we have this central column right here and we have a margin on the left and the right. So that's all I wanted to do really inside this app.svelte component.


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[Assistant] Now then what I'm going to do is create a new folder and I'm going to call this components. I'm just going to structure my code a little more than we did in the previous tutorials.


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[Assistant] So this folder right here is gonna be for our components like the footer, the header, the pull form, the pull list, etc. Now you can structure your code differently, that's absolutely fine.


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[Assistant] This is just so we can stay organized for now. And generally in bigger projects, I would have different folders for each feature or section of the website. But in our case, that's a bit over the top. So this we'll do for now.


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[Assistant] So now let's create a header component and we'll call this header.svelte and inside here, first of all, I'm going to do a script and then at the bottom we'll have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like so. And inside the header, we're gonna have an H1.


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[Assistant] And inside the H1, not some text, but instead an image. And in fact, you know what? We don't even need a script because there's going to be no kind of logic or data inside this component. So let's get rid of all of that and just have the HTML template and some styles. Now the alt attribute is going to say Paul Ninja.


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[Assistant] Logo and we now need to add this image right here. So we're going to add that inside the public directory and it's going to go inside a folder. So new folder called image.


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[Assistant] So I already have this image prepped. It's an SVG and you can find this on the GitHub repo for this lesson. I'll leave the link down below. So this is the SVG preview, but you're going to see what it looks like on the screen when we add it in right here. So we want to go inside the image folder and then forward slash


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if I save that on preview, then if we refresh, okay, we can't see that. That's because stupidly I've not actually imported the header component into the app component right here. So let's do that now. So import header.


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[Assistant] Like so. Save it and now we should see that over here on the screen. Okay, so that's the logo. However, looking pretty stupid and rather big. So let's now add some styles to the header.


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[Assistant] So first of all, I'm going to target the header tag itself. The background of this is going to be a really light grey. So that's going to be F7, F7, F7. And it's more kind of an off-white. Now I also want to apply some padding to this of 20 pixels all the way around. Now let's move on to the H1.


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[Assistant] And the H1 is going to have a margin of zero. So we're just stripping out the default margin of the H1 in the browser. And then we're going to say text.


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[Assistant] So I'm just going to inspect this at the minute because I can see some kind of border or margin around the body.


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[Assistant] It's the padding. So I think that's in the global style sheet. I'm going to actually remove that. So let me go to the global style sheet, which is here global.css. And you can see we have some padding right here. Let's get rid of that. We don't want that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Save it, and that looks a bit better. So it now sits flush to the top left and right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, so the next thing I'd like to do is a footer component, just to add a copyright notice or something down at the bottom. So let's create that. We'll get rid of the header for now. Create a new component inside the components folder called footer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, so now let's do some styles. And before we do any styles, let's just take this component and place it inside our app file. So I'm going to duplicate this line and change this and this to footer instead. And we're going to output the footer underneath the main tag. So footer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Like so. Save it and preview. And we should see this copyright notice right here. Now I want to centrally align that. So let's go to the styles and I'm going to say footer.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] First of all, and inside that we'll give this some padding of around 40 pixels. I'm also going to say text align is going to be center. Now I want to style this as well copyrights, but before we do that, let me just spell this correctly. So down here, I'm going to say copyrights.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then inside the color of this is going to be kind of like a light gray instead of black just to make it a bit more subtle. So A, A, A. And then the font size.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's going to be 14 pixels. The display is going to be inline hyphen block and the padding is going to be 20 pixels all the way around. And then finally a border top of one pixel.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Solid, and a lightish grey colour, DDD.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So if I save that now and put it over here, this looks a bit better. Now, when we have more content in the center.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It's gonna look better because this will be at the bottom of the page. But for now, that's looking pretty good. But we have this padding back at the top. I don't know why that is. Oh, it's because we're loading old styles. Just hard refresh over here to get rid of that padding if it's showing up on yours.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay then, so that is the basic template done now. We have the header component and we also have the footer component and we've styled the content in the middle a little bit as well. Now we don't need that so we can get rid.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Of the paragraph content right here that was just so we could style it properly. Now in the next video, we're going to create some tabs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the top over here, so we can switch between two different views. We have one section for showing the polls and one section for adding a new poll or form. So we're going to create some tabs in the next video to switch between two different components showing on the screen.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that was when Communitech was still just a baby startup company itself. I went in when it was almost three years old and it was struggling to come up with.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And saying, you know, why can't we do that? And now we've got case studies and case histories that prove that we do.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Freshman graduate student at MIT and I, I do remember that talk which was, uh, yeaah, it was a joy to give that one. It was, HCI was, was actually hot at MIT then, which wasn't true the first couple times I gave talks at MIT, so it, it came along, it came along way there and I think,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Michael's part of the reason why. And if you can't hear me, uh, please let me know. Am I speaking loudly enough? Okay, great. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Teaching as coaching and learning at scale. I'm very passionate about this topic. I think most of us who are professors, who teach, spend a lot of our time teaching, think a lot about how we teach. And so, oh, thank you so much.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, think to yourself the answer, and it's a little bit hard to answer that in a setting like this, so I'm gonna reword the question a little bit, uh, make it a little bit easier to answer. Which of the following visualizations is the most effective for presenting this data? Is it one, this one, or two, this one? How many people think number one is the best? How many people think number two is the best?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, everybody's voting for number two pretty much. And for those of you who study visualization, there's a lot of reasons as visual principles area isn't best represented this way, it's misleading, color is not used in a way that, that's helpful to allow you to make the, the comparisons, uh, length is a better way to show quantitative differences, and so on and so forth. This is a very easy one, alright, if we know anything about visual principles. Let's try another one.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What's the best way to, uh, describe or visualize this data?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Okay, and that's only a very small fraction of it. It's gonna be a little harder to answer that one. Don't shout out your answer yet. Let me reword the question again.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which of these visualizations is the most effective for this data? Okay, that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That or that. Of course you can't even really see the numbers. This is Jeopardy. This is data from the show Jeopardy. And it's about which questions, which categories of questions are used and how much money people have made from the different categories and so on. Does anyone feel that they know definitively which one might be best?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Most effective, well for what I actually haven't said what for, and that's another issue. But imagine you're a professor who needs to give feedback to students on this very high dimensional problem, visualizing data at this high dimension.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So keep that in mind as I go on. So what I want to talk about is, uh, sort of two, two different topics that I feel are related. One is learning at scale, what we see with MOOCs and so on, people putting, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Give you material, give students material and then they're tested and they got it right or not and they better study and get it right. I'm thinking more like the sports metaphor where a coach has practice and, and they are alongside the athlete and they,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But what I am kind of thinking about is that these two are kind of related. They're, they're, I'm thinking about the two inter, they're interwoven. And we can think about two different things, at least I am. One is pedagogy that interlinks these two. And in particular, mastery learning and structured peer learning. I'll talk about both of these. And the other is tools. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I got a little bike here because Salman Khan talks about the Swiss cheese model of learning, where you kind of fall through the holes, which is when you're, you know, traditional teaching environments, you study that math topic, you maybe get a C on the test and you move on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it's kind of like learning to ride a bike where you didn't master the balance part, but now you're going on to pedaling. You know, it just doesn't work. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, a lot of the thinking now is that, you know, mastery learning requires practice, and if you want to do practice, you need feedback to know if you got the questions right or not, at least for, say, for, uh, math. And there's a lot of really interesting automation work going on with automated feedback.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And personalizing say the feedback automatically. So that's a really exciting area learning at scale that I won't be talking about.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's another issue which is for more qualitative work that students are doing and so another trend is to have peer feedback when you have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] A lot of students, you can't have one instructor or a few instructors give them all feedback. And furthermore, there's a lot of benefits to peers giving feedback to each other which we'll talk about. And this is especially important for qualitative work like writing essays or design like HCI or information visualization where there's judgment calls potentially. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So peer assessment in design courses, the state of the art is work that's been done here at Stanford, well, sort of Stanford and San Diego and CMU and depends on how you count, but kind of all around, uh, about Kokarni et al.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the, the trick is to have students have a rubric which is basically just a table saying here is what you need to look at when you are assessing say this design. You train the students on other examples of that rubric. You say look at how, here's a design, look at how the instructors


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And that's, that's working pretty well. It's getting students, and this is an example rubric, where you have like a category, then here are like the different scores you can give it unsatisfactory, bare minimum, satisfactory above and beyond. And you sort of train the students into how to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do this rubric for each assignment and then you have some peer assessment.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, so this is working pretty well, but there are a bunch of issues and there's a lot of really interesting research going on around this. So, Kulkarni et al, you know, noticed various things like students sometimes feel like they put in more effort than the other students. This is a common thing that, that we see with, you know, things generally in classrooms.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, maybe if, if they're not sure how the grading's being done, then they have some questions, but if you show them too much about it, we've all seen this. If professors have tried to show how they graded, uh, exams to students, because the students think the grading wasn't fair, and then the students are even more unhappy, this is sort of a well-known result.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's been some work on grading the grader, like let's grade the students to see how good of graders they are. Uhm, there's issues though with negative reviews, they can get low ratings and people generally these days react negatively to negative feedbacks. There's a lot of issues.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we did a little work recently, uh, to think about how can we improve peer assessment say in the design space or that's how the result came out anyhow. Uh, and so the idea actually is to trade off two different approaches and I'm saying it's kind of like ensemble learning in machine learning. So let me talk about that now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So first I have to give a quick review of heuristic evaluation. And since this is PCD seminar, I think most of you probably know what it is, but maybe not all of you. This is a very standard approach to assessing designs, user interfaces. Basically you have a set of experts


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] With a set of guidelines, go through the guidelines, review a design and say how many errors there are, how many problems there are with the design or


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How good the design is and then you aggregate their results. This is very widely used in practice in user interface design developed by Nielsen and Molik in 1990.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, report by Stephen Few, like, do not use chart junk, do not use- do use- do not use color, shape, and so on arbitrarily, do use length and position properly to show quantitative variable- values, do not deceive, etc., etc.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so if we look at our beautiful graph from before, we can look at it and say, for example, which guidelines apply or which ones are violated by this chart. And for example, do not use color arbitrarily, although I guess it's the colors of the flags.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, use length and position for quantity that is violated, uh, and highlight salient information that is violated here, et cetera.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Alright, so what's the standard alternative to heuristic evaluation that is used in the literature?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] There's, there's very, there's other things but, but kind of the main alternative is usability studies. Have people actually try to, uh, or use the, the design. And so,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You can do, have a whole big system built and do a study on it. And one of my favorites for search visualizations or search interfaces is this very old one by Reiterer et al, where they compared bars, tile bars, and, uh, a scatter plot to kind of just a, sort of a ta- uh, list view.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, you know, found that the list view is basically the best except for tile bars the second best. So that's one reason I like to review the study because the tile bars is my thing. But the, uhm, effectiveness, the table is best. It's really hard to make visualizations work for text and search, which is why we don't have them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, but there's also been studies on visualizations themselves, and so there was this paper in Tokai 2014 by Yang et al.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, or uh, studies of like bar charts and line charts and stacked bar charts. So all they did was a whole bunch of comparisons of how do you group these pairs together. And it was this enormous amount of work because they wanted to see which ones to use for which kinds of questions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And what kind of questions do people ask with these different types? Like, and it turned out like they asked about extrema and they did comparisons for correlations.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Let's think back at the example I showed you with the Jeopardy data. Those were not just like a couple of lines. Those were very complicated designs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they did get some scores for a few pairs for a few question types. But we don't have user tested data for really complicated combinations of designs. So it's gonna be really hard for say a professor who's trying to get feedback to students to sort of definitively state which ones are, you know, correct or right and so on. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] By Kocera, where they did this, uh, so there's been work also by here and, uh, and his co-author on replicating some perception studies using crowd workers. And it turns out these square-fied charts are better than pie charts and donut charts for looking at proportions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So those- that's how you can- you can do sort of these usability studies. All right, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I thought, well, okay, people are using crowd workers to do these little usability tests. Why don't I use this in my class? I could make use of the crowd to help assess my students' work.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I was inspired by this work by Dow et al, uh, also sort of down here and elsewhere.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the idea was students should radically iterate on their designs. They should work in teams. This is from the Dow it all work. And then you can assess the results. What they did was they had people make UIs and post the results on Google AdWords. And that was very clever. I'm like wow, an objective assessment. That's great.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And to me that's not really a usability goal so much. That's like a selling goal. So it's not perfect. It's not exactly what I want. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What I did the last two years was I had neutral parties, so crowd workers, answer questions about the underlying data in the visualization.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I put their designs on the crowdsourcing platform and we saw how many questions the people got right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I also had the students first design individually and then I paired them up in teams and had them iterate on their designs and have a team submission.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But then I wanted to think, well, why don't I do this with peers instead of crowd workers? The students should answer each other's questions, although you can't have, the problem with that is once you've answered questions about a data set, you know the answers so you can't repeat. So you have to have more students.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then I also was like, well, how does this compare to heuristic evaluation, which is sort of a standard technique. It's a standard technique in user interface design. It turns out it's not that standard in InfoViz, at least in my experience, in InfoViz classes. Think about that. I don't think it's really used that much in InfoViz. And there's, I have some sites to back that up.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This summer, we had 47 undergraduate HCI students. We had a- have a lecture and some exercises with amphibious.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And within participants design, where there were two conditions, HE, heuristic evaluation or question answering.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Six, with six different data sets, three designs each, and,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I attempted to have them be of low, medium, and high quality.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the setup would be like there was a question, there was a data set with a question, there were three designs and then the students assessed them. They either answered questions about the designs or they did a heuristic evaluation on the designs and we did this for multiple data sets. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In the heuristic evaluation condition, I had to really had them


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Do only positive heuristics to keep the scale. Yes?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I had a bias. I thought that uhm, this objective...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Answering the questions would reveal the true underlying merit, uhm, because, because in, we, I had never done heuristic evaluation in InfoViz, which I'm now going to do because of the results of my study.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the heuristics, I had them do three, by the way I should say these are, these are undergraduates brand new to HCI in a six week summer school course. And then we had the one segment on InfoViz that I taught. So, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uh, one to five, the visualization, the information, the visualization is visually salient. Uh, the components are used appropriately and it has a, a visualization successfully presents, uh, multiple relevant facts into a single visual pattern.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, for example, for the Jeopardy data, uh, you would have which year on average was the most lucrative for players in terms of earnings based on these numbers, which category would be the strategically best to select as a contestant in the game, and so on. And there were three choices, and only one was correct. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So the procedure is the following. We create measures for the HE and the, for the heuristic evaluation and the question answering.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So for the HE, the composite rating per participant, was to average the three HE scores. And the QA, the composite rating, was the number correct averaged. So that's the new thing. And then when we plot these,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] For the six data sets, they each have three visualizations, so there's 16 points with the average scores, with the average question score on one axis and the average heuristic evaluation score on the other axis.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] However, you will see that the, uh, HE was more reliable, somewhat more reliable than the QA, and I'll talk about that a little bit more. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Now the really interesting thing is if you have outliers, what does that mean? So we do have this outlier. This is in the Jeopardy case. So these are the three Jeopardy visualizations and here are where they fall in the chart.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you can, so what's really interesting here is you can look at where do they fall with the question score and where do they fall with the heuristic evaluation score.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And then you can look at, and this is the one where we had the big outlier, and this is 52. And that's one reason I've been using this example. It's a case where people didn't give it as high of a HE, they gave it, actually let's see.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, not as high of an HE score, but it did well on the questions. So this would be a case where as an instructor,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] They're pretty close on the question score. One of them though has a higher heuristic evaluation score, number 21, which is the one on the top.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So they're answering questions equally well, like I actually thought this one wouldn't do very well because to me it has some poor design components, but it kind of maybe got lucky on the questions. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's a case where maybe you were gonna wanna add more questions. Maybe we don't have enough questions to tease that apart. So I'm gonna talk about that more in a minute. And here's another example.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] These are, uh, this is another, this is dog breeds data set. And you can see here where one of them is clearly doing worse than the others. This is what I expected. The stacked bar chart number 41 is doing poorly on both dimensions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But uhm, the other two are doing pretty much the same on the question score. One is rated more highly on the heuristic score. So again, this-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I think you could, you could find the opposite, we didn't find the opposite in this dataset, but I think you could. I mean that's why I'm actually going to run it again this, uh, this semester in my class. So that's the thing is, this is just one run of this, so I think we need a lot more.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Tries with it to see what happens and let me talk about the reliability assessment. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Yeah, I know some people said that, but people didn't necessarily agree with that. And also when you look at the literature on information visualization tasks, there's a lot of classifications. So just the use, use in this manner is like one of,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, and actually the HE was surprisingly effective at getting at what the question ask- answers found. That's what surprised me so much. It was really quite, these really fast HE's that these students did, was really quite well aligned with what the questioners got. So that's what impressed me so much. Sure.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So, yes, that was the debate all through the 90s. And then, uhm, so the people that have revisited it, this is Hollingston and Novick from this usability inspection methods after 15 years of research and practice. Okay, so they surveyed it, said people are still using these things, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] It remains an open issue as to why usability professionals in practice rely on single perspective methods, typically involving users or experts, but not both.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I found this after we did the work and I was reviewing literature. Two different authors called for doing what we did. So I'd say that some thinkers are, are, are saying this is probably a good idea.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, that, that these people reviewing that back and forth, it's one or the other, are saying we ought to combine them.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So it is a new way of thinking about it. And I have to tell you, I've been wrapping my head around it too. And saying, is it different than doing them separately? Is it, does it have benefits? I welcome you cogitating on it and seeing if you think it gives insight or not.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so this is based in part on the standard deviation of the mean scores, uh, for each design.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] When we did this we found that the HE for our data was more reliable than the question answering. There could be a lot of reasons for that, uh, but it does suggest that if we add more questions that might improve it. And one reason is that the scores were binary, either you got it right or wrong for the question answering and the HE is graded.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Uhm, but there is a lot of research showing the importance of finding the right tasks. This is true for InfoViz. It's true for information retrieval.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I just think, I really felt like I was just picking some questions and it was, you know, I did it for a study. It wasn't systematic, it was based on this Yang et al. stuff but,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] You know, what if I'd had two more questions? So uhm, I think that is, but it's much more variable, as well as what data did I put, put in the thing. You know, there's a lot of variables, so uhm, I think it needs more study too.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Which allows for spotting of outliers, uh, maybe, which might be special. And you know this problem we have with grading at scale where people feel if they do something special, it gets ignored, it gets punished, right? So we wanna avoid that problem.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And it might be more accurate for ranking designs because imagine if we have a huge database of designs that have now been assessed and you want to add a new one in. We can imagine this big scale we've developed where there's two different measures pulling off each other.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So we have two different kinds of evidence that we, that we have some idea correlate but that come from different places. Uh, so.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So this study, the design was by the instructor, the question was by the instructor, and the business was by the instructor, and the HE and the QA was by the students, like this. Uh, this spring, uh, the visualizations are gonna be done by the students.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As well as the HE and the QA. So now the students will be making the visualizations and


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And my hope is, hope this summer to take it online and have


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The questions made by the students and maybe the data sets chosen by the students, although that might probably be delayed a bit, but eventually everything done by students and make a huge data bank of ranked assessed visualizations, high dimensional ones.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so that we can actually discover new design guidelines. I found even with the first study I did with just the crowd workers that my students came up with what I felt were new design guidelines that I would have been a little less confident about had they not scored so well, uh, that


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I hadn't thought of for doing what they did and so I think we'll find new design guidelines from this approach. The advantage of this over what's been done before is because uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And, and, you know, it's sort of a clean, cleaner model than just general HCI, I think. So, let's revisit your-


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] What you were asking at the beginning, I want to come back to the questions you were holding.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So you can make rules about what the valid questions are so they have to...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That you got right on, I mean, unless you made it more complicated. It's really just the average scores people got right on a...


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Visualization and the average HE, that's what we're doing right now.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I'll tell you that when we did this in my class, uhm,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] The students, so one of the students said, okay, so those of us whose scores aren't very high with just the question answering.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] In that case, they wanted to hear how to improve their design. So what I'm thinking here is that students, if you have like a plot showing where theirs fell with respect to others, if we had a way to show the differences between their designs and others that did better and worse on the different questions.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Explanatory difference of, you know, how this, these different visualizations handle the different parts of the data set. I think it could be quite explanatory. So I think you could get beyond that. It would actually be almost a literal description of how they were different.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, I think you wouldn't do this for all assessments either. So that's, you know, you have multiple ways of doing things in the class. But actually, I also think this would be a really great way to assess the heuristics as well or the guideline assessments too. Because these are more the, they're more like the rubrics that you see in the standard peer assessment. And you could see which ones lead to,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Helpful feedback and which ones don't as well to help explain to students why their designs did well and didn't do well.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] As we know with usability tests when people don't get things, when people are lost in design, that's a very effective way to communicate to people why design is poor.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And the same thing would happen, you know, someone couldn't answer a question about your design.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That's very, very powerful. Then people want to understand why not. And the heuristics could, the guidelines could help explain why not. As well as the diffs.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] That, you know, it's very compelling, but then they want the explanation for why. So.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I get by and there's a whole lot of, whole side thing about the pedagogy. Oh my gosh. Ooh boy.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Want to measure for the emotional response? You want to measure for people feel that they're gaining learning?


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] How do we get the questions? That's right. So just formulating the questions for exploratory data analysis is much- is like the hardest part of it in some sense.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So for this, eh, you know, we could have the students study the unit on what is, what, how do you classify the different types of questions that are appropriate for different sorts of information needs within a visualization, and then you would have them posit those in absence of any data set, and you know, that could be an assignment in and of itself.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I could see that being a whole unit and then that would feed into this as an exercise. But you wouldn't just throw them out willy-nilly. It would have to be a kind of carefully crafted kind of a thing.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] But there's, you know, people do a lot of great work in the crowdsourcing literature about how do you have people propose things and, uh,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Have others, uh, kind of give feedback on them and self-reflect and so on.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] This is a very early exercise in the course. I have this whole sequence and this is meant to be for the foundations like learning to sketch in a, you know, art class and so on. So I, I don't know how to bring that to this sort of pure assessment kind of a level.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] We are looking at, in our exploratory data analysis unit, we want to, we are looking at a logging what students do with their


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I might, I will skip the middle, the other topic that I've talked about in the past and kind of jump to that.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] So I- I'm interested in this idea I'm calling MOOCs in progress, which is that there are some things that we don't know how to teach, we don't really know how to do very well, and exploratory data analysis or really getting insight from- from data is one of those things. And so, um, I- I talked about this thing. So, um,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Well, and so I haven't made a MOOC yet because I guess I just don't feel like I have a course I can just put online and have all the auto grading and everything yet and I'm, I don't know, I'm chicken.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I'm trying to slowly develop assignments like this. One reason I'm doing this is I want to put it online. I want to be able to put assignments online that can have the feedback and do it right.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And so one thing I teach is this exploratory data analysis unit, uh, and I don't know how to put that online at scale.


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] And I don't really know how to teach it and I don't even know how to do it that well. Most of us learn from others and most people that are good at it, uh, learn from others and get a lot of practice and see a lot of, uh, examples and so on. So,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] I have this idea of a MOOC in progress which is the people who have put courses out often have been teaching it for years and really gotten it in great shape and uhm, but rather than having to have a perfect course out there where everyone expects it to be perfect,


[User] Please transcribe this text

[Assistant] Maybe starting with a piece of a course and engaging some experts or semi-experts, people who kind of are already familiar with the topic.